The Tucker Carlson Show - Auron MacIntyre： The American Empire Is Racing Towards Collapse. Here’s How to Prevent It.

00:00:00.000 So I feel like the Trump administration is finally figuring out that allying yourself with Benjamin Netanyahu, while there's definitely some overlap in interests, and I don't think any of this is personal, but when you form an unbreakable alliance with any foreign country, you're likely to get hurt, and American interests are likely to get hurt.

00:00:19.620 And I think it's dawning on them that, you know, if another country, I don't know, decides to move 2 million people by force in the biggest internment mass migration since the Second World War, you don't want to have to take credit for that.

00:00:33.140 Are you surprised?

00:00:35.320 Not really.

00:00:35.860 Obviously, this is a terrible situation in the Middle East, and you can sit around and say, oh, you know, Israel should have been formed one way, Palestine should look at it. 1.00

00:00:44.260 Right, right, exactly.

00:00:44.820 But the truth is, at the end of the day, these two peoples are completely incompatible, and one of them is going to try to remove the other. 0.66

00:00:51.200 That's a really ugly thing.

00:00:52.780 Nobody should ultimately think that's positive, but if you look throughout history, the solution most nations have to this issue is ethnic cleansing. 0.95

00:01:00.980 That's just what happens throughout history.

00:01:02.920 Again, you don't have to judge it one way or another.

00:01:04.920 You just have to look at history and know that's how these things tend to get resolved, and it's ugly business for anyone, and why should we involve ourselves on either side of that, right?

00:01:13.800 I just don't understand how that would ever serve America.

00:01:16.340 Well, that's exactly right.

00:01:38.640 That's exactly right.

00:01:40.120 That is, of course, this is going to happen, and it's dawned on me slowly.

00:01:44.120 It's like, wait, but what about the 2 million or however many are still alive?

00:01:48.240 People like Palestinians in Gaza. 0.99

00:01:49.880 Like, well, we'll just move them somewhere else.

00:01:51.420 What?

00:01:52.140 No one's tried that in 80 years.

00:01:54.120 It didn't work then.

00:01:55.160 Now everyone has an iPhone and it's going to be on video.

00:01:57.560 It's totally immoral and disgusting, but it's also, as you just pointed out, inevitable.

00:02:02.760 Again, it's messy, but it's a historical reality, and if we deny that, then we're going to end up getting caught in this never-ending cycle.

00:02:12.220 The only reason this really hasn't happened, again, one direction or the other, it's not that I think the Palestinians probably wouldn't have a similar solution if they were in the Israelis' shoes,

00:02:21.460 but the only reason this hasn't happened is there has kind of been this international consensus to involve ourselves in what otherwise would be a natural process throughout history,

00:02:30.560 and so that's why we find ourselves stuck here over and over again.

00:02:33.340 This is never going to get solved through diplomacy.

00:02:35.160 You're never going to work out the ways in which you find it.

00:02:37.980 No, it's going to end with one group displacing the other.

00:02:40.720 That's just going to happen, and it's just not our problems.

00:02:44.140 There's no reason we should have our money, our treasure, our people, or more importantly, our moral worth tied up to any of this.

00:02:52.460 But that's kind of the American way, isn't it?

00:02:55.920 I mean, historically, and you've taught history, that the United States forms unbreakable alliances with countries that share its values.

00:03:06.740 That's what we're told. Is that true?

00:03:08.320 No, and that's the most hilarious thing is like over and over again we hear this,

00:03:11.660 oh, don't you care about America? Don't you care about American values?

00:03:14.980 Actually, if we look at what the founders said about foreign policy, it's radically different.

00:03:19.240 George Washington, in his farewell address, was very clear about the way we should approach foreign alliances.

00:03:25.600 He said, basically, you shouldn't have them.

00:03:27.520 You can have commercial relationships.

00:03:29.140 You should trade with other nations.

00:03:30.520 Be friendly as possible.

00:03:31.780 But he says very explicitly, never, ever have a favored nation or a nation that you hate,

00:03:37.460 because either way, it makes you a slave to that nation.

00:03:40.640 And a free nation should be free of foreign influence.

00:03:43.740 He very clearly says that foreign influence is the death of any given republic.

00:03:48.400 And so he says, be very careful about making some nation your favored nation,

00:03:52.180 because the natural dynamic that will happen, and I promise I'm not making any of this up,

00:03:55.880 I'm not like, you know, tailoring this in some way to the current environment.

00:03:59.580 So this, to be clear, this is Washington's farewell address.

00:04:03.420 Right.

00:04:04.180 Which is, quote, there's one line from it, don't make foreign alliances or something that,

00:04:09.180 you know, everyone's kind of familiar with.

00:04:10.680 But does he goes on about it?

00:04:13.060 Oh, for several pages.

00:04:13.940 And he explains exactly the dynamic that's going to happen.

00:04:16.280 He says, you're going to associate this favored nation with your own nation.

00:04:20.240 You're going to conflate its interests with its own interests.

00:04:23.400 And not only will that happen, the different leaders of political factions inside your nation

00:04:28.480 will start vying for favorability with the favored nation,

00:04:32.080 showing themselves to be the true ally while you're the one who is deceiving everyone.

00:04:38.020 And you are actually betraying our true ally.

00:04:41.240 And he says, it's even going to get worse because the real patriots that point out that

00:04:45.860 you are favoring that nation instead of the interests of the real country you live in,

00:04:50.360 those people will be now denounced as traitors.

00:04:54.200 No way.

00:04:55.580 Yes, he says very clearly.

00:04:57.380 And so he's warned us about everything that we-

00:04:58.900 Wait, Washington wrote that?

00:05:00.580 Yeah, 100%.

00:05:01.580 Washington said the people who stand up and say, wait a second, nothing against that

00:05:05.600 other country, but our country's interests should be the main focus of the U.S. government.

00:05:11.680 That guy will be denounced as a tool of Qatar. 0.99

00:05:14.980 Right.

00:05:15.260 And this is a document.

00:05:16.920 This is a document that every school child used to have to learn.

00:05:21.240 This is what every, in every history class you would go, this is one of our core documents

00:05:25.240 along with the Constitution, the Gettysburg Address.

00:05:27.860 But we never go over this anymore, and I don't think that's any kind of strange coincidence.

00:05:32.520 It very clearly contradicts everything about our current foreign policy, and that's what

00:05:36.660 the founders actually believed.

00:05:39.400 That's so prescient.

00:05:40.860 It's almost spooky.

00:05:42.840 It's absolutely amazing.

00:05:43.920 When you go back and read the words, you would think he's speaking exactly to the situation

00:05:48.520 we're in now.

00:05:49.240 And of course, you can see this with many places.

00:05:50.840 You can see this with Israel, but you can also see it with Ukraine.

00:05:53.240 Oh, for sure.

00:05:53.780 And it's so strange that the right learned this lesson with Ukraine, right? 0.93

00:05:56.420 We all learned that actually this deep state will send us to war, and they don't care about

00:06:01.180 the boys in Appalachia or Texas.

00:06:03.840 And it's not about defending America.

00:06:06.360 We all recognize that when the Biden administration was calling us, you know, Putin puppets because

00:06:10.660 we didn't want to send blood and treasure to Ukraine. 0.70

00:06:13.060 But all of a sudden, we have a similar situation where Israel, where we might need to involve

00:06:17.780 ourselves, and we forget all of the lessons we learned.

00:06:19.800 We forget all of the foreign policy that we were actually supposed to be following if we're

00:06:23.300 following the American tradition.

00:06:24.780 That's amazing.

00:06:26.860 When did that fall out of the curriculum, do you think?

00:06:29.940 It's a great question.

00:06:30.960 I have never had it as something when I was a history teacher that was required reading.

00:06:35.080 I went through it because I thought it was something important for students to understand.

00:06:38.740 But as a necessary part or mandatory part of the curriculum, it was never there.

00:06:43.240 Maybe a short excerpt.

00:06:44.400 I mean, it's only a 30-page thing, but we're not allowed to have students actually look at

00:06:48.220 any kind of primary sources anymore.

00:06:49.920 Because one of the nasty things that happens when you look at old books that were written

00:06:53.240 before, say, 1945, is you determine that the world is actually very different and that

00:06:58.420 there's something very radical and modern that's happened.

00:07:00.540 That's why we don't read primary sources, because then we might actually know some history.

00:07:03.980 Anything written pre-Second World War has a completely different tone that you can feel, even if

00:07:09.920 they're not saying, even if the document itself doesn't say anything that is particularly radical

00:07:14.440 to the modern sensibility.

00:07:15.620 The way that it's written, the sort of freedom of expression, you realize how much censorship

00:07:23.180 and self-censorship exists post-war when you read it.

00:07:26.240 I mean, it's like, read a Lothrop Stoddard book, for example.

00:07:30.980 It's amazing that people wrote stuff like that.

00:07:33.680 It's also the amount of historical context.

00:07:36.080 Everyone knew the language of the old world.

00:07:38.360 They understood that they were connected to a chain of tradition.

00:07:41.140 And everything that they spoke about was deeply seated in that context.

00:07:46.120 If you go back and read Hobbes' Leviathan, even though he's making an argument for secular

00:07:49.660 government, nine-tenths of it is couched in biblical language.

00:07:52.920 It's nothing but biblical references.

00:07:54.180 And he makes casual references to very complex theological issues that he assumes everyone

00:07:59.160 is familiar with.

00:08:00.140 And this is the exact same thing you see with the founders, whether it be in the Federalist

00:08:03.340 Papers or Washington's Farewell Address.

00:08:05.580 These are men who are deeply built into a very specific tradition and understand everything

00:08:10.700 about the world inside of that.

00:08:13.000 And we just don't see that anymore.

00:08:14.380 Now, when we look at history, it's all these little blocks of carefully managed narrative.

00:08:19.600 It has no connection to the actual lives lived by our ancestors.

00:08:25.160 Well, I don't think we have ancestors as a nation, right?

00:08:28.580 I mean, what percentage of the population has an ancestor fought in the Civil War?

00:08:32.460 Yeah, increasingly very few.

00:08:35.160 And that's actually a huge problem as we face these issues coming with deportations.

00:08:40.520 A lot of people are asking, OK, we understand mass deportations for illegals.

00:08:45.700 We get that.

00:08:46.540 But what about legal immigrants?

00:08:48.380 How does that work?

00:08:49.600 Who is an American ultimately, right? 0.89

00:08:51.700 And that's really going to be the question of our age.

00:08:55.000 We're transitioning from a moment where identity globally was very ideological, right?

00:08:59.560 You're either communist or you're a capitalist.

00:09:02.140 You're with one empire or another, your first world or second world. 0.60

00:09:05.960 That was shattered, right?

00:09:07.100 That paradigm was shattered after the end of the Cold War.

00:09:10.620 And instead, we all had to turn back inward and stop having this global ideological struggle

00:09:14.720 and ask, OK, now that that's gone, who are we as peoples again?

00:09:18.700 And that struggle to understand national identity, I think, is seeping through everything,

00:09:22.940 including our ability to understand our own traditions and understand how our constitution

00:09:27.880 work and what our values actually are, not just what's being handed to us by the news media

00:09:32.600 or an educational system.

00:09:33.800 So we're understanding ourselves in a very different way.

00:09:39.280 And where does that shake out?

00:09:41.320 Like, what is identity post-ideology?

00:09:45.740 Well, the most traditional understanding of identity is a collection of many different

00:09:50.600 factors, including language, religion, people, place, heritage, tradition, folkways, history.

00:09:57.140 These things were all the different aspects that made up human society until we needed to

00:10:02.400 create these supernatural organizations run by managerial elites that didn't have any connection

00:10:07.860 to these individual places.

00:10:09.880 And that's why we see over and over again our different world governments desperately trying

00:10:14.200 to erode the particular nature of peoples.

00:10:16.580 If you look at the UK right now, they're completely destroying any free speech tradition.

00:10:21.200 They're completely destroying any Anglo understanding of rights. 0.99

00:10:24.280 And they're all doing it in the name of creating this multicultural society that England never 1.00

00:10:29.320 had in the first place.

00:10:31.040 And so you see these elites who are destroying the nature and quality of their people.

00:10:35.780 They're actively replacing the people in their nation because if they do that, then those 0.99

00:10:40.540 barriers to the power that previously existed that were tied to the tradition will be gone.

00:10:44.900 We did an interview with a woman called Casey Means. 0.87

00:10:49.120 She's a Stanford educated surgeon and really one of the most remarkable people I have ever

00:10:54.680 met.

00:10:55.440 In the interview, she explained how the food that we eat produced by huge food companies,

00:11:01.720 big food in conjunction with pharma is destroying our health, making this a weak and sick country.

00:11:08.880 The levels of chronic disease are beyond belief.

00:11:11.840 What Casey Means, who we've not stopped thinking about ever since, is the co-founder of a healthcare

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00:11:35.020 It helps you understand how the food that you're eating, the things that you're doing every

00:11:38.640 single day are affecting your body in real time.

00:11:41.760 And you don't think about it.

00:11:42.740 You have no idea what you're putting in your mouth and you have no idea what it's doing

00:11:45.060 to your body.

00:11:45.720 But over time, you feel weak and tired and spacey.

00:11:50.780 And over an even longer period of time, you can get really sick.

00:11:53.460 So it's worth knowing what the food you eat is doing to you.

00:11:58.160 The Levels app works with something called the Continuous Glucose Monitor, a CGM.

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00:13:13.500 It's pretty obvious now that this country is getting weaker than ever, meaning the population

00:13:19.300 is unhealthier.

00:13:20.520 That's what Maha is about, trying to counteract this long-term trend that's culminated in a

00:13:25.500 disaster.

00:13:26.060 Americans are so unhealthy, we can't staff the military. 1.00

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00:16:21.420 Can't, I mean, so many questions.

00:16:23.100 I can imagine a multiracial society.

00:16:26.360 I certainly want to.

00:16:28.060 I don't understand what a multicultural society is. 0.95

00:16:31.700 How can you have a multicultural society? 1.00

00:16:34.160 Because society is culture.

00:16:35.860 So, how can many exist in one society?

00:16:40.780 Well, this is, I think, a real problem with our really modern and vulgar use of race.

00:16:46.240 Race is a macro category.

00:16:48.240 Ethnos is a more organic micro category, right?

00:16:52.380 And so, when we think about different ethnicities in Europe, there are many, right?

00:16:56.320 The difference between an Italian and a Swede is rather large.

00:17:01.560 However, there's this...

00:17:02.860 Vast.

00:17:03.320 Right.

00:17:03.640 It's huge.

00:17:04.620 Vast.

00:17:05.000 Right.

00:17:05.440 But there's this macro category of white or European.

00:17:10.180 And that means something, but it really only means things in a highly racialized society.

00:17:15.300 So, it used to be that in America, we had black Americans.

00:17:19.140 And they had a specific ethnic identity because they had basically been shorn of their previous ethnic identity.

00:17:24.920 They didn't have a connection to their tribe, to their peoples, to their history.

00:17:28.340 And so, they had an ethnogenesis.

00:17:29.840 They formed an ethnos in the United States.

00:17:31.820 But the white population, the European descendants, were ones that had different European ethnos backgrounds.

00:17:37.760 They had Germanic backgrounds.

00:17:39.560 They had English backgrounds.

00:17:41.280 Irish.

00:17:41.580 Irish, all these, right? 0.55

00:17:42.380 And so, those different identities were distinct.

00:17:45.880 And we even had different neighborhoods, entire states that were settled by very different peoples, even though they're of European descent.

00:17:51.960 But as we have racialized, as we have become only interested in those macro categories, all of those separate white ethnoses that once existed have been pulled into a singular identity.

00:18:01.980 Or separate black, for that matter. 1.00

00:18:02.520 Right.

00:18:02.820 Yeah.

00:18:03.000 The ones that existed previously.

00:18:04.860 Yeah.

00:18:06.180 Washington, D.C. is, I think, the largest population of Ethiopians and Eritreans who are black.

00:18:14.060 Ask them what they think of local black people.

00:18:17.180 Right.

00:18:17.440 I don't know that they've anything in common.

00:18:20.080 They don't seem to.

00:18:21.240 Right.

00:18:21.760 So, but why would you want to erase all of those very real differences?

00:18:26.520 Like, why pretend that Swedes are the same as Sicilians? 0.91

00:18:30.400 Because eventually, each one of those particular cultures creates a high level of resistance to both standardization and scale of managerial power.

00:18:39.660 But most importantly, to government power, because peoples with particular traditions and identities aren't going to just go along with whatever the government says.

00:18:48.360 They have real, organic, deeply seeded understandings of who they are.

00:18:52.620 We can just look at COVID, right?

00:18:54.100 Who are all the people that actually resisted during COVID?

00:18:57.240 Orthodox Jews, the Amish. 0.99

00:18:58.460 The religious, people with high degrees of individual transcendent identities, right?

00:19:03.940 This is my group, my practice of my religion, the people I go to church with, the people in my community, they are more important than whatever the state believes.

00:19:11.900 And the only thing that can push back against that, it's not abstract principle.

00:19:16.020 It's not words in a constitution.

00:19:18.500 The words in the constitution only restrict the government if they reflect particular understandings of peoples and the way that they live their lives.

00:19:25.520 And that's why those communities were more resilient, because even if there was no paper constitution to protect them, their real beliefs, their real identity actually resisted the state.

00:19:36.720 So your thesis is, we see the world becoming homogenized, and there's something in us normal people, I think, that find that very distressing.

00:19:48.280 Very distressing, and that's why we seek out places that are different, because we understand that the actual diversity of peoples is somehow important.

00:19:55.820 We can feel that, and it's certainly interesting.

00:19:58.040 But there are huge forces pushing against it, leveling forces.

00:20:02.960 Everyone's the same, same attitude, same sports, same food.

00:20:07.420 And your thesis is that's on purpose, that's not natural, and it's a power grab by governments.

00:20:14.860 Well, I think the better way to understand this is by a managerial class.

00:20:19.620 They're certainly part of the government, but a big change has happened, especially after the Industrial Revolution.

00:20:25.980 We used to have statesmen, right?

00:20:27.500 And these were people who had to make very real and decisive decisions.

00:20:31.260 They had to use a lot of wisdom.

00:20:34.080 You had to be very prudent.

00:20:35.300 They had to use discernment.

00:20:36.700 We were very reliant on their ability to lead.

00:20:40.700 But what has happened over time is that we've found that that is a very inconsistent way to produce results.

00:20:46.780 And so the best way is to remove human agency from decision-making.

00:20:50.660 And when we do that, we can increase the level of scale at which we can produce results in government and business and weapons manufacturing and everything else.

00:20:59.340 And so ultimately, if we can go ahead and abstract the human condition, if we can create a set of parameters by which people always have to act, then that allows us to create a situation in which we're producing bigger and better results without needing to understand any particular culture or people or rely on any type of human prudence or decision-making.

00:21:21.760 This is what everyone gets very angry about when they call any kind of bureaucracy, right?

00:21:25.760 They're stuck in a phone tree, and there's no one who can make a decision.

00:21:28.720 There's no one who can overrule the machine.

00:21:31.440 Every even real person they're talking to is kind of talking like a robot.

00:21:35.480 And that allows the call center to handle more calls than they would if each individual person was actually making decisions and helping people.

00:21:43.740 But in the end, it actually destroys the whole purpose of the call center.

00:21:47.020 It only exists to serve itself.

00:21:48.660 And that's what's happened with our managerial elite.

00:21:51.080 They now only exist to serve their power.

00:21:53.840 They now only exist to serve their global network.

00:21:56.560 It involves, of course, governments, but involves NGOs and banks and educational institutions and media institutions.

00:22:03.920 This is an entire class of people with the same interest set that are all working constantly to ensure that their power grows and the agency of individual people in their actual homelands is reduced.

00:22:14.080 One of the core beliefs about economics I think that most people have because it's just intuitive is that in order to receive a reward, you have to provide a service like doing something useful, moving the ball forward, feeding people, giving them shelter, educating their children, allowing them to go to heaven or whatever.

00:22:32.480 But like there has to you have to be adding something in order to take something.

00:22:36.960 And what I'm struck by with the group you're describing is how little they add.

00:22:40.340 And I wonder if there's like kind of any precedent for that in human history.

00:22:47.460 Well, there is quite a bit, right?

00:22:49.100 So pretty much every government is at some level a thief, right?

00:22:53.040 That's how kind of all governments start at some level.

00:22:55.980 They're taking some percentage of what people make, what they do, and they're gathering it to themselves and hoarding it for themselves.

00:23:02.840 But as you say, there used to be some kind of service provided.

00:23:06.380 They're protecting your livelihood.

00:23:08.020 They're ensuring no one invades you.

00:23:09.720 They protect you from criminals, right?

00:23:11.120 Like there is some kind of transaction that is occurring here.

00:23:14.300 But over time, the more you control the market, the more you don't have to offer the product, right?

00:23:19.000 This is why we hate monopolies because they create scenarios in which you don't have to be reactive to the needs of the people.

00:23:25.760 You don't have to keep providing because you're the only game in town.

00:23:28.200 And more and more people understand that the only way they can interact, not just in their country but globally, is with these managerial apparatuses.

00:23:36.620 You have to work inside that framework.

00:23:39.240 And so they continue to run in this race thinking that it's going to get them somewhere.

00:23:43.180 But it's really the only thing available to them at this point.

00:23:46.440 And so we are seeing in many different places around the world, people are pushing back against the managerial elite.

00:23:52.780 You hear people like J.D. Vance or Vivek Ramaswamy talking about the administrative state and the need to dismantle the deep state, all of these things.

00:24:00.980 We see people in the U.K. understanding that ultimately their government and not some foreign enemy is actually the most hostile thing to them.

00:24:08.280 So there is pushback coming.

00:24:09.860 We are seeing this to rise up.

00:24:11.360 But the system is vast and powerful and extremely wealthy.

00:24:14.480 And all of this is very difficult for people to do, especially because they've been trained for the most part to not even recognize that they are ruled, that there is a ruling class, right?

00:24:22.560 It's all popular sovereignty.

00:24:23.720 It's all democracy.

00:24:25.020 The people have chosen this.

00:24:26.460 You voted for it somewhere.

00:24:27.920 And so it's actually not the leader's fault.

00:24:29.780 It's not the guy making billions of dollars' fault.

00:24:31.920 It's not the guy who's buying his fifth home's fault.

00:24:34.800 No, it's your neighbor.

00:24:36.380 It's the guy who runs the plumbing with a MAGA hat.

00:24:38.560 It's his fault.

00:24:39.340 He voted wrong.

00:24:40.460 And he's the reason you're poor.

00:24:44.640 I mean, that's such a perfect description of what's happening.

00:24:51.280 An organization at a certain scale always exists for its own self-perpetuation.

00:24:57.540 Is that true, do you think?

00:24:58.340 That's right.

00:24:58.920 Yeah.

00:24:59.480 There's a historian, Robert Conquest, and he has three laws of power.

00:25:05.840 Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:06.700 And his third law is that at the end, an organization, a bureaucratic organization is just going to look like it's operated by a cabal of its enemies because it eventually turns into an organization that only serves the members of the organization and not the actual purpose it was stated for.

00:25:25.760 And so every one of these managers, everyone who's disassociated from both the people you're serving and the original organization itself is just going to turn every piece of the organization into their own little power grab, their own little fiefdom where they can secure more.

00:25:38.280 And that's why we see the managers exploding in every form of business, whether it's consulting, if you look at public education, where my experience came from, you know, you have a thousand more administrators than you do teachers because the incentive is not to actually educate students or actually serve the public that you were created to serve.

00:25:55.120 It's to perpetuate your existence inside that system.

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00:28:19.700 So the system, as one of its core imperatives, has got to divide the population.

00:28:27.640 It feels that way.

00:28:29.680 It doesn't.

00:28:30.340 A lot of the, I mean, I'm coming to this slowly, but a lot of the ugliest things that the system does,

00:28:36.720 inspiring race hatred, for example, I never have understood why you'd want to do that.

00:28:41.220 Why would you want to do that?

00:28:42.420 But they're doing it and have been for 60 years.

00:28:47.460 Like, is that a long term?

00:28:49.340 Is that, can you continue doing that?

00:28:51.940 Not forever, but it's a classic power strategy.

00:28:54.060 So we need to understand that one of the things that power always wants to do is centralize and expand its reach.

00:29:00.300 I think that's pretty obvious to a lot of people.

00:29:02.040 But this guy, Bertrand de Juvenal, came up with this metaphysics of power.

00:29:05.940 And his understanding was that what we would think of as the middle class, right?

00:29:10.680 The kulaks. 0.99

00:29:11.560 They're entrenched in society because they own a piece of the tradition.

00:29:15.300 They own a piece of the land.

00:29:16.900 They have actual communities.

00:29:18.820 They have resilience.

00:29:19.960 They have the ability to push back against the government.

00:29:22.960 And so if you have this middle class, they're in the way of your power as a leader. 1.00

00:29:26.620 Oh, yes.

00:29:27.040 And so what do you do?

00:29:28.520 Well, you take your high, your ruling class, and you pair them with a low class from outside of society.

00:29:34.620 And that high and low versus the middle is the way that you break apart society because you promise the new voters or the new participants that you will give them whatever the kulaks have. 1.00

00:29:45.380 It's all their fault, the middle class. 1.00

00:29:46.840 They're the ones who are keeping you back. 0.88

00:29:49.140 They're the racists. 0.99

00:29:50.040 They're, you know, they're the sexists. 0.99

00:29:51.040 And if you just defeat them, we'll just give you all their stuff.

00:29:53.980 And this is the wedge that is continuously used.

00:29:56.840 The large amount of our government right now is just a wealth transfer between heritage Americans and the new political class that's being moved into rural society. 0.99

00:30:05.400 That's just the dynamic we're seeing.

00:30:07.020 And this happened in Rome.

00:30:08.440 This has happened many, many times over.

00:30:10.320 You can see many historical examples.

00:30:13.620 So the H-1B thing is just a – so the enemy is what you call heritage Americans.

00:30:18.080 What are those?

00:30:18.940 Heritage Americans are those that are actually tied. 0.97

00:30:20.860 You could find their last names in the Civil War registry.

00:30:24.240 Like they have a tie to the history and to the land.

00:30:27.400 And, you know, Samuel Huntington is a guy who I really like.

00:30:31.020 He wrote the Clash of Civilizations and Who Are We?

00:30:36.720 And, you know, I think won his debate with Francis Fukuyama pretty decisively.

00:30:40.760 But, you know, he said in Who Are We?, his book about American identity, the core of American identity is the Anglo-Protestant spirit.

00:30:49.320 And he's a man of the center left, you know, as a Harvard professor.

00:30:52.120 This is a guy who's not, you know, he's not, oh, you can only be an Anglo or a Protestant to be part of America.

00:30:56.760 But he says even the Catholics and Jews in America take on this Anglo-Protestant affect in some way.

00:31:03.620 And so you have to have this majority culture for people to assimilate to. 0.62

00:31:07.980 And so when we're talking about a heritage American, we're either talking about someone who is tied specifically to that tradition or someone who has come here and has been here for generations but understands that they are conforming to that way of being, that that's the core of society.

00:31:22.220 And what is that way? Can you describe the Anglo-Protestant worldview?

00:31:28.020 I mean, obviously, we could spend entire books on that and that has been done.

00:31:32.800 Well, it's almost never mentioned.

00:31:33.920 It's true, yeah.

00:31:34.900 And which I think is interesting because those are the people who founded the country and set up every system that we're benefiting from now from, you know, our economic and political systems or have been benefiting from, maybe not anymore.

00:31:44.640 But those are the founders.

00:31:47.520 It was 100% Anglo-Protestant, like 100%. 0.99

00:31:50.360 Right.

00:31:50.700 So why don't we ever mention that culture?

00:31:54.640 Because we're very terrified of the idea that ideas are particular to cultures and peoples.

00:31:59.940 That sounds very scary in Old World.

00:32:01.800 It's true.

00:32:02.560 Of course it's true.

00:32:03.620 It's obviously true.

00:32:04.780 And we know that because now we laugh whenever we try to export democracy to Afghanistan or something, right? 0.74

00:32:10.040 Well, I know it from traveling a lot.

00:32:11.120 I go to different countries and I don't hate their cultures or ideas at all.

00:32:15.080 I don't have to live under them.

00:32:16.160 I'm just visiting.

00:32:16.820 I think they're really interesting, but they're very different.

00:32:19.560 Because the people are different, inherently different. 0.93

00:32:22.960 Yes.

00:32:23.040 And when you change the people, you change the culture, which is why our Western governments are so busy trying to replace those populations. 0.96

00:32:29.820 Yeah.

00:32:29.920 When you change the population, you change the country.

00:32:33.280 You change the country and you change the principles that it's going to be founded on.

00:32:36.680 You know, we look at the Declaration of Independence and it says we hold these truths to be self-evident.

00:32:41.640 If you go to Afghanistan, are the truths of the Constitution self-evident to them? 0.94

00:32:45.340 No.

00:32:45.460 Of course not.

00:32:46.280 Because when they said self-evident, they meant to people in our tradition, to us, to the people who descended us, who share our values, who speak our language, who speak, you know, the type of heritage that we understand.

00:32:59.060 And that's where that comes from.

00:33:00.920 Again, it doesn't mean that other people can't be grafted into that and absorb that. 0.72

00:33:04.900 But the idea of a purely propositional nation that is in no way tied to a culture or a people but is entirely a collection of abstract things agreed to in some social contract before society even began is just ridiculous.

00:33:17.080 And it's not the way the Constitution was even understood when it was written.

00:33:20.920 Our founders said very famously that the Constitution is for immoral and religious people.

00:33:24.580 They had a particular understanding of how we would have to live our lives and what that would look like if we were going to be able to live under the republic that they erected.

00:33:31.800 All true.

00:33:36.180 I interrupted you with my outburst of rage.

00:33:40.380 When I asked you, what exactly are the presuppositions?

00:33:47.860 What's the nature of this Anglo-Protestant culture that founded this country?

00:33:52.680 I think this is where people get a lot of the ideas of a decent amount of individualism.

00:33:57.940 This has always been a key part of it.

00:34:00.000 Also, restrained government, the idea that government would be limited as something tied to the Magna Carta, right?

00:34:05.220 Like, yes, they had a, you know, became a constitutional monarchy.

00:34:08.400 But, you know, we can see a direct line from what the English were doing with their set of government in the way that we understand, you know, our society.

00:34:16.800 The idea that free speech is something sacred, that the individual conscience and the practice of religion is something that needs to be maintained.

00:34:23.920 These are all core values that when you actually look in other societies, they don't look the same.

00:34:29.520 Free speech in Germany does not look the same.

00:34:31.880 There's no Slavic society.

00:34:33.900 And I love Slavic societies, just being honest.

00:34:36.120 They're great.

00:34:36.800 But they don't see free speech as a foundational God-given right.

00:34:42.000 They just don't.

00:34:43.020 Right.

00:34:43.580 And they're whiter than I am.

00:34:45.780 So it's not, it is like, it's much, that is to your very smart point about lumping all these different, very distinct cultures into the white group eliminates differences that we should be thinking about.

00:35:01.160 Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:02.440 Even inside European cultures, vastly different traditions.

00:35:05.980 Closer, perhaps, than, say, someone in Eastern Asia, but still very, very different from place to place. 0.80

00:35:11.940 And the fact that we've just kind of melted that all down into this, you know, binary or between a couple of few races as if that's like the complete understanding of who peoples are and how they live their lives is just silly.

00:35:23.740 And again, I think that serves the purpose of really just melting down culture in general, right?

00:35:28.060 Like, it looks like race is very divisive identity politics, right?

00:35:32.340 Which, to some degree, it is.

00:35:33.920 But the reason it feels so divisive, the reason it feels so unnatural, is it's thoroughly unrooted from actual organic ways of being.

00:35:41.380 It's completely removed from the things that make your life better when you have a holistic identity.

00:35:46.840 It's just this rough collection of hatred for people who happen to have a different skin color, which doesn't get you anywhere good.

00:35:53.340 That's smart.

00:35:54.280 So smart.

00:35:55.040 Can you have a continent-sized country with hundreds of millions of people in it with completely distinct cultures with totally different assumptions about things like natural rights?

00:36:08.500 To some extent, if you want to operate as an empire, and I think this is the crossroads that America is at.

00:36:13.760 We, if you talk to Americans, you know, the Democrat side will say, well, we're a democracy.

00:36:19.040 And then Republicans will say, well, no, of course not.

00:36:21.160 We're a republic.

00:36:21.900 That's very different.

00:36:22.600 If you ask them what the difference is, they won't be able to really explain it to them.

00:36:25.760 No, no, they never can.

00:36:26.480 There's a representative somewhere.

00:36:27.700 They get all huffy, but they have no idea what they're talking about.

00:36:29.360 Yeah, and the real difference is that republics have self-government because the body politic sees itself as being a necessary participant on a regular basis.

00:36:39.680 That the individual sees themselves as needing to cultivate a certain amount of virtue and individuality that allows for a level of self-governance that otherwise doesn't exist.

00:36:49.420 And so the fact that the republican type of government requires this type of virtue means it has to stay relatively small.

00:36:57.080 And this isn't something I just made up.

00:36:58.900 You can see this in Aristotle or Machiavelli or, you know, the founding fathers.

00:37:03.460 They understood that scale was a very dangerous component of government forms and that if you created this vast empire, even a continent-sized empire, much less a world empire, that was going to radically change the way that you had to govern.

00:37:17.880 And we have continued to expand our imperial ambitions as the United States, but have never addressed the impact it's been having on our governance.

00:37:27.200 And this is why so many people feel like the people they elect don't run the government.

00:37:30.920 Of course they don't because you don't live in a republic anymore.

00:37:33.820 You live in an empire.

00:37:35.000 And the empire has a large amount of machinery that hums right under the surface and it's constantly serving its own interests on a regular basis.

00:37:42.220 Some people will call this the deep state.

00:37:43.540 I wrote a book called The Total State because I think that really encapsulates a far wider understanding of the managerial lead and the power they hold.

00:37:51.420 They're not just in the unelected bureaucracy, but they're in the media, they're in financial institutions, they're in education, all of these different things that manipulate our public opinion.

00:37:59.920 And really the ability to manipulate public opinion has become the one skill necessary to govern at this point because we switch from this idea that we have a people, a specific people ruled in a particular way through virtue in a republic.

00:38:13.540 And instead have understood that just the mass will is the only thing that matters.

00:38:17.260 And what's great at manipulating the mass will?

00:38:19.860 Mass media.

00:38:20.420 You may have noticed this is a great country with bad food.

00:38:24.740 Our food supply is rotten.

00:38:26.960 It didn't used to be this way.

00:38:28.480 Take chips, for example.

00:38:30.220 You may recall a time when crushing a bag of chips didn't make you feel hungover, like you couldn't get out of bed the next day.

00:38:38.060 And the change, of course, is chemicals.

00:38:40.180 There's all kinds of crap they're putting in this food that should not be in your body.

00:38:44.540 Seed oils, for example. 0.99

00:38:46.340 Now even one serving of your standard American chip brand can make you feel bloated, fat, totally passive and out of it.

00:38:56.560 But there is a better way.

00:38:57.600 It's called masa chips.

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00:39:00.120 Got a whole garage full of them.

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00:39:02.820 They taste great.

00:39:03.740 And they have three simple ingredients, corn, salt, and 100% grass-fed beef tallow.

00:39:10.640 No garbage, no seed oils.

00:39:12.980 What a relief.

00:39:13.880 And you feel the difference when you eat them, as we often do.

00:39:17.060 Snacking on masa chips is not like eating the garbage that you buy at convenience stores.

00:39:21.860 You feel satisfied, light, energetic, not sluggish.

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00:39:48.340 So the idea that media would be a bulwark against government overreach,

00:39:53.420 that it would be a sort of watchdog acting on behalf of the population.

00:39:57.480 They're too busy to know what their government is doing.

00:39:59.260 The media is going to do it for them.

00:40:00.460 So that whole notion is like absurd.

00:40:03.320 The media is a participant in this system.

00:40:07.940 And what's funny is, again, if you look at the American tradition,

00:40:10.640 if you just look at the people writing inside of the American tradition,

00:40:14.060 they describe exactly this process and how it's going to take place.

00:40:17.380 John C. Calhoun, vice president of the United States, served in multiple cabinets.

00:40:22.480 This is a guy who laid out in one of his treaties that ultimately the American media would not serve as any kind of check,

00:40:30.840 some kind of fourth estate, and instead would be used by political parties to manipulate the opinion of people,

00:40:37.500 creating a winner-take-all situation in any given election.

00:40:41.840 You have a situation where all political parties are suddenly incentivized to basically burn down the country,

00:40:48.460 take as much as they can for themselves,

00:40:50.080 and imprison or otherwise deny their opponents access to the ballot box

00:40:54.320 because otherwise they'll lose this giant leviathan they built.

00:40:57.540 And again, I think he wrote this in the 1850s, the 1840s.

00:41:01.680 It was released after his death.

00:41:03.660 But again, we can just look at the people who were part of the American tradition,

00:41:07.000 and they recognized that this is the function media was going to play from the beginning.

00:41:10.320 It does seem like we're moving toward dictatorship.

00:41:16.160 And I'm not pointing at any one political leader or party even.

00:41:22.620 I think the Democrats are much more eager for dictatorship than the Republicans generally,

00:41:26.940 but I'm not even making that point.

00:41:28.200 I'm just saying people's faith in democracy, whatever that is, has been badly shaken.

00:41:34.220 And I just don't think you can govern in the way that our government currently governs forever.

00:41:41.100 Do you think that's inevitable?

00:41:43.200 Yeah, I do.

00:41:43.900 I think Caesarism is a natural life cycle of any civilization.

00:41:48.760 When you get to the oligarchic stage...

00:41:51.060 Caesarism, is it?

00:41:52.420 That's so smart.

00:41:53.180 Yeah, Oswald Spangler talked about the life cycles of civilizations.

00:41:58.100 And after the age of money power, after the age of oligarchy,

00:42:01.400 the only thing that can cut through the Gordian nod of this vast, sprawling bureaucracy built on money is a strongman.

00:42:07.620 That's what he predicts in any given age.

00:42:10.440 Obviously, that's not the Anglo understanding, right?

00:42:14.220 No.

00:42:14.620 It's definitely not the way that you want to see these things.

00:42:16.320 Let me speak for all Anglos when I say we're very opposed to that.

00:42:19.260 Right.

00:42:19.820 But if you aren't careful, if you don't understand how and why money powers come to dominate your society

00:42:26.060 and created this rule of the oligarchs, people will cry out for that.

00:42:30.300 Well, the only thing more powerful than money is violence.

00:42:32.860 Right.

00:42:33.560 So that's just kind of that simple.

00:42:35.660 Yes.

00:42:35.960 So if you reach a stage where money determines everything, which is where we definitely are now,

00:42:40.260 we are in the age of oligarchs, and the people want some say,

00:42:46.160 there's kind of like no other option, is there?

00:42:48.680 No.

00:42:49.380 And that's why you see them fall behind, you know, leaders like this very, very easily, right?

00:42:54.800 And so you have a very precarious situation right now.

00:42:58.120 We're at a very important crossroads in the United States.

00:43:00.720 It's very rare that a nation decides to scale back its empire voluntarily.

00:43:05.780 It doesn't happen very often.

00:43:07.260 And we have to consider whether we think that's worth avoiding the current track we're on,

00:43:13.320 because there is a cost to scaling down empire, to be clear.

00:43:16.340 You know, being the world hegemon has amazing benefits for you, in theory. 1.00

00:43:21.860 It has more benefits for your ruling class, and eventually it's going to destroy your population. 0.80

00:43:26.120 But in the short term, the benefits are quite large.

00:43:28.000 Is that always true?

00:43:28.860 The empire always destroys the population.

00:43:30.220 I believe that to be the case.

00:43:31.560 It can be longer, it can be shorter, but over time we see this over and over again.

00:43:35.400 Again, we can look at the classic example of Rome.

00:43:37.960 It continues to expand its borders.

00:43:39.760 A guy like Hadrian tries to pin it back inside.

00:43:42.300 But eventually, they end up just giving citizenship to everyone.

00:43:46.120 Caracal expands it to the entire empire in the hopes that this will eventually bring the identity of the empire back and get people to fight for it.

00:43:53.860 And instead, what happens is they just keep importing Gauls until Gauls more or less just take over the empire. 0.92

00:43:58.820 You know, they take over every important aspect of it.

00:44:01.620 So, again, a pattern that we see over and over again.

00:44:03.820 It's very hard for empires not to do that.

00:44:05.660 So, why were they so successful within the empire?

00:44:09.900 Well, they were the only people who weren't tamed anymore.

00:44:12.260 I was about to say.

00:44:12.980 So, it was a testosterone thing.

00:44:14.520 Yeah, it really is.

00:44:15.780 We need to import our own barbarians to fight off the barbarians because the people themselves are no longer willing to fight. 0.99

00:44:21.400 And this is a key aspect of republics again.

00:44:24.260 I know.

00:44:25.080 Just like, it's all, it just, it's, this record is on repeat.

00:44:31.160 It's crazy.

00:44:31.740 If you go back to the Federalist Papers, you can see Hamilton telling people, look, I know you're scared about standing armies because we all know that standing armies are a detriment to free republics.

00:44:42.500 So, if you want us to not have a standing army, you need to turn over control of all of your different militias to us so that we can, you know, protect the United States without it.

00:44:53.940 It was understood that being part of a republic meant being a soldier.

00:44:57.620 Service actually did guarantee citizenship.

00:44:59.700 It was the idea that your willingness to stand and defend what was yours was what made you a citizen worthy of contributing and voting and being part of the body politic.

00:45:09.020 Again, Aristotle said the citizen is he who is armed.

00:45:12.120 Machiavelli said you should never have mercenaries.

00:45:14.320 You should never have paid standing armies.

00:45:16.400 Instead, you should always have a militia.

00:45:18.500 This is a core part of your identity as a republic.

00:45:21.840 And the minute the people are no longer willing to fight and have to contract their fighting out somewhere else, you know the republic is done.

00:45:28.540 Yeah.

00:45:30.600 So, the republic is done.

00:45:32.140 The country is not done.

00:45:33.140 The republic just becomes an empire.

00:45:34.680 Right.

00:45:34.840 That's what you're saying.

00:45:35.500 So, then what's – and we're there.

00:45:39.240 So, what's the life cycle of empire typically?

00:45:42.960 A lot of people think it's very short.

00:45:44.320 Some people will cite the 250-year mark.

00:45:47.400 But the one thing that is for sure is that these complex systems always reach a point of marginal utility that is just collapsing.

00:45:56.100 They can no longer squeeze enough power, enough wealth, enough influence out of increasing one more rank of the complexity of their societies, conquering one more area, adding one more complex system.

00:46:08.780 And so, you're just waiting for the Tower of Babel to fall. 0.83

00:46:13.380 I think this is honestly a very deeply biblical pattern that repeats itself over and over again.

00:46:18.680 We try to unite all of humanity under these imperial ambitions.

00:46:22.200 And in our hubris, we're scattered back to our natural state as peoples.

00:46:26.760 But the process is always brutal.

00:46:28.780 So, there's no happy ending for empire.

00:46:33.620 There's those that, you know, can walk away to some extent.

00:46:37.560 But you look at what the British have done. 1.00

00:46:39.080 Yes, they, in some extent, passed their empire on to us.

00:46:42.840 But what does that cost them?

00:46:44.620 Almost everything, right?

00:46:46.160 Well, everything.

00:46:47.140 Yeah.

00:46:47.480 Yeah.

00:46:47.680 It looks like they lost a war.

00:46:49.260 The most degraded people in the world.

00:46:50.840 Right.

00:46:51.440 And so, you know, the question is, is there a happy escape?

00:46:55.300 And I'm not sure what the answer to that question is.

00:46:58.120 I think, to some degree, the answer is a return to a localism that can actually reinvigorate

00:47:04.280 the communities that cultivate virtue and create Republican governance in the first place.

00:47:09.840 But do we have the will to do that voluntarily?

00:47:12.380 Do we have the will to walk away from the centralization of power?

00:47:15.320 I don't think that we do.

00:47:18.860 Okay.

00:47:19.300 Um, so you said this is the moment, which is without many precedents in history, where

00:47:28.900 we are voluntarily trying to scale back the empire, clearly that that's what Trump's election

00:47:33.260 was about.

00:47:33.960 Right.

00:47:34.060 And there are costs to that.

00:47:36.780 What are the costs?

00:47:38.320 Well, a large amount of that is going to be global influence, right?

00:47:41.500 We if we're not in charge of an area, someone else might be.

00:47:45.080 And that also means that we're not imposing our standards and our understandings on the

00:47:48.860 way that global commerce and all of these things should be affected.

00:47:53.060 We're not controlling the diplomatic situation or the military deployment of foreign nations

00:47:57.900 through our through our influence.

00:47:59.900 And that can have large economic impacts.

00:48:02.820 I mean, our entire dollar is based on being the global reserve currency.

00:48:07.680 Withdrawing away from something like that is devastating.

00:48:10.020 We are deeply dependent on this global system.

00:48:12.800 We are as dependent on it as the system is on us at this point.

00:48:17.200 And so untangling it is very messy business.

00:48:19.680 A lot of the things that we have to sacrifice, cheap labor, global, you know, the global hegemony,

00:48:25.300 the idea that we don't constantly have the ability to reach in and affect every international

00:48:31.360 situation and dictate its outcome.

00:48:33.480 Those are things our elites are unwilling to do.

00:48:35.380 And we've already seen that in a place like Ukraine, right?

00:48:37.480 Whereas we just came off of COVID, it's very clear that the ruling class had spent a large

00:48:42.340 amount of their capital deceiving the world.

00:48:45.120 And yet they immediately went right back into another conflict because, well, Russia is not 0.98

00:48:49.820 allowed to conduct any business without the United States being involved in it.

00:48:53.220 Now, if I was Ukrainian, I'd hate Russia.

00:48:55.660 I have no particular love for what's happening there.

00:48:58.380 But the idea that we would immediately jump in and try to dictate the terms of that conflict

00:49:03.920 is a hubris that can only be tied to the idea that as a global empire, we have the right

00:49:08.380 to tell you somewhere in the middle of Eastern Europe how we should actually be conducting

00:49:13.440 a war like this.

00:49:15.160 So what's the model for a society?

00:49:18.340 So clearly this isn't working.

00:49:19.920 It's chilling your description of this historical pattern, which clearly we're reliving yet

00:49:28.220 again.

00:49:29.520 But if you could start from scratch, like what is the ideal form of government?

00:49:35.240 What is the ideal nation?

00:49:36.300 Can you have a nation this big?

00:49:38.060 Can it stay sovereign?

00:49:39.300 Can it stay focused on its own people?

00:49:41.240 I mean, is that possible?

00:49:42.760 Well, the key, I think, is really understanding that this shouldn't be ideological.

00:49:45.860 One of my favorite thinkers, Joseph DeMaestra, said that every people gets the government

00:49:51.520 that they deserve, that ultimately there is a correct form of governance, but it is different

00:49:57.000 for different peoples.

00:49:58.200 And so we can't look at one exact abstract idea of how government should run and say,

00:50:03.800 we'll just force that down on everybody.

00:50:05.460 Again, we've seen the failure of that with liberal democracy across the world.

00:50:08.640 And so the key is really the organic cultivation of the way that your people live.

00:50:14.500 Again, the Anglo-Protestant understanding of authority is very radically different than

00:50:19.980 say the Chinese, one throughout history.

00:50:23.220 And so what would be the correct way for us to live is very different from the Chinese. 1.00

00:50:28.580 And that's okay.

00:50:29.780 They don't have to-

00:50:30.960 And that's okay.

00:50:31.760 Right.

00:50:32.080 We don't have to live in their system and they don't have to live in ours. 0.58

00:50:35.100 We don't have to impose that artificially.

00:50:37.060 But we definitely don't have that view in this country.

00:50:40.260 So in Arkansas, I was reading, because I know one of the people involved, the Attorney

00:50:43.980 General of Arkansas, Tim Griffin, who's a perfectly nice guy, but he's like considering

00:50:48.660 bringing charges against some group, building some like housing development, and it's all

00:50:54.720 white.

00:50:55.300 And that's like a threat somehow to everyone else.

00:50:57.920 There's no allegation they've done anything against anyone.

00:51:00.340 Um, just yet another indicator that our core beliefs as a country, circa 2025 anyway, are

00:51:11.720 that, you know, everyone has to live in exactly the same way, whether they want to or not.

00:51:18.620 Well, this is a huge part of the Civil Rights Act, right?

00:51:20.440 The Civil Rights Act itself is the end of freedom of association, which was a basic understanding

00:51:25.320 of-

00:51:26.020 Are you a racist?

00:51:27.020 Oh, of course.

00:51:27.700 You can't have, you can't hold in any of the opinions of our founders without being

00:51:31.160 racist.

00:51:31.560 We all know that.

00:51:32.640 Um, but, but, you know, one of the key understandings is that people have the right to associate

00:51:36.940 as they please.

00:51:37.940 Now, I would never frequent a place that's, you know, refusing to serve a black American.

00:51:43.800 Like, that's not in my principles, but I should have the choice whether or not I should do

00:51:48.440 that.

00:51:48.760 A business owner should have the right to decide whether or not I should do that.

00:51:51.860 And let's be honest, this is 2025 in America.

00:51:53.800 We're not getting Jim Crow back. 0.90

00:51:55.280 That's, yeah, unless, and this is the funniest thing about conservatives.

00:51:58.480 They'll say, oh, of course America isn't racist.

00:52:00.680 And they say, well, we can get rid of the Civil Rights Act then, right?

00:52:03.220 Because we don't need a giant government bureaucracy that intervenes in every aspect of society,

00:52:09.000 giving it a blank check for a large government power.

00:52:11.140 You're conservative.

00:52:11.700 You'd want to get rid of that.

00:52:12.760 And they say, oh, no, no, of course not.

00:52:14.140 What if someone somewhere is racist, right?

00:52:16.380 So we have to keep this giant Soviet level mind control bureau that, you know, that works 0.95

00:52:21.540 across our entire society and warps every incentive from housing to employment to education.

00:52:26.100 We have to maintain that.

00:52:27.300 Why?

00:52:27.640 Well, because if we're honest, most conservative politicians actually believe what liberals

00:52:31.820 believe, that somewhere in the heart of America is just this giant pile of KKK members 0.66

00:52:36.260 waiting to conquer the United States.

00:52:37.860 And not just conservative or Republican lawmakers, but a lot of the opinion merchants out there

00:52:45.100 on the so-called right turn out to have none of the core assumptions that I have.

00:52:49.860 Maybe I'm like super liberal.

00:52:51.300 I never, I always think of myself as the most right-wing person in the world, but I don't

00:52:55.360 seem to have anything in common with them at all.

00:52:57.260 I didn't, I didn't know that until the second Trump term.

00:53:00.340 Do you know what I'm talking about?

00:53:01.040 Oh yeah.

00:53:01.660 And it's, it's been rather hilarious.

00:53:03.680 Yeah.

00:53:03.760 I'm pretty new to this.

00:53:04.980 You've been doing this for a long time, but I've-

00:53:06.840 Just 35 years, not too long.

00:53:09.600 But no, you were like teaching school five years ago, right?

00:53:12.760 Yeah.

00:53:12.920 Yeah.

00:53:13.220 I've only been doing this for like three years.

00:53:15.300 And so, you know, it's been very eyeopening to interact with different personalities.

00:53:20.380 Don't get me wrong.

00:53:21.240 There are very sincere people.

00:53:22.700 I want to, I want to warn people because everyone runs out there and just says, oh, this person's

00:53:26.020 a grifter. 0.86

00:53:26.480 He's a grifter. 0.98

00:53:27.120 They're all selling their opinion.

00:53:28.400 And, but you know, there, there are very principled people or very passionate people, but there

00:53:32.440 are also a large amount of people who are in no way conservative, no way Republican, no

00:53:37.040 way right wing and make their living operating inside of these organizations. 0.78

00:53:40.960 Even some famous ones.

00:53:42.320 It's interesting.

00:53:43.180 Very much.

00:53:44.460 Who is, I mean, I think we can say the majority of people in general are afraid, just they're

00:53:50.920 afraid all the time.

00:53:52.940 You know, secular people are all afraid all the time. 0.89

00:53:55.080 So I'm not attacking anyone.

00:53:56.300 I feel sorry for everyone involved, but I think the majority of people on the internet

00:54:01.620 giving their opinions are kind of fake on some level, but there are some real ones.

00:54:05.560 Who are the real ones?

00:54:08.300 Who are the real ones?

00:54:09.560 That's, you know, I, I guess personally, I spend a lot more time in spheres that are off

00:54:15.520 the beaten path.

00:54:16.640 Yeah.

00:54:16.740 And so I think that there are some, you know, people out there that maybe don't have

00:54:21.200 massive, uh, uh, you know, fan bases or, you know, big voices in, in influential halls

00:54:27.960 of power, but are speaking some of the most important truths out there today.

00:54:31.540 Well, I think you're one of them.

00:54:32.400 And that's one of the reasons, uh, that's the main reason I wanted to meet you and have

00:54:35.800 this conversation because as much as I hate technology and electricity and all that stuff,

00:54:39.560 and I'm like, I'm pretty, um, pretty Kaczynski'd on all that, uh, modernity business, I do think

00:54:47.020 the best thing about the modern world is the internet and the fact that people who, you

00:54:54.560 know, don't have any connections to anything can succeed on the basis of the strength of

00:55:00.440 their wisdom and of their opinions.

00:55:01.780 And I just think you're a perfect example.

00:55:03.600 So you were, you work for the blaze and, um, but you're very widely read on the internet.

00:55:12.360 How did you get here?

00:55:14.920 Like, how did you do that?

00:55:16.140 Was this something that you planned?

00:55:18.260 Not at all.

00:55:19.040 I mean, I've, I've always been very interested in politics.

00:55:22.240 I've got a political science degree in college and I worked on a few campaigns, but there just

00:55:27.140 wasn't much going on there.

00:55:28.340 And so I ended up falling into, uh, being a local reporter for a while.

00:55:32.280 I covered news and crime or politics and crime.

00:55:35.380 And then, uh, I worked as a teacher, you know, for, for a long time, but when COVID struck

00:55:40.660 high school teacher, a high school teacher, public school, public school.

00:55:43.400 Yeah.

00:55:43.940 And, and when COVID hit, you know, I had all the opinions you'd expect from a talk radio

00:55:48.480 conservative listening to Dennis Prager and Sean Hannity and these guys.

00:55:52.440 And then when I watch, you know, the, the churches were closed and the strip clubs were open

00:55:57.980 and you, you couldn't go see a dying loved one in the hospital, but Democrats could riot

00:56:03.140 in the streets and burn down your neighborhood and nobody did anything, right?

00:56:07.640 Like this is, I, I've been told my whole life by conservatives, this is what the second

00:56:10.620 amendment's for, right?

00:56:11.640 Like the, the, the government has closed the churches, guys, that we are across the Rubicon.

00:56:16.200 And I thought I was going crazy because all of the people who had been spouting all of

00:56:19.720 this my whole life were like, well, no, you're probably fine.

00:56:22.740 We got to figure out how to work.

00:56:23.760 And then, and I just realized, okay, the constitution is not stopping any of this.

00:56:27.400 So I need to understand why.

00:56:28.820 And so I started reading a lot of political theory outside of the mainstream.

00:56:33.740 I read that, read this guy, Curtis Yarvin.

00:56:35.740 He just started writing under his real name, used to be Minchus Mulbug.

00:56:39.840 And he had a bunch of other, you know, authors that I needed to understand.

00:56:43.520 And the more I read that, the more I wanted to share what was going on.

00:56:47.000 And so I read videos.

00:56:47.480 Just in your spare time.

00:56:48.200 Yeah.

00:56:48.580 Yeah.

00:56:48.760 And so that's, that's kind of how I started tweeting and, you know, putting out material

00:56:53.480 and writing.

00:56:53.880 So it's just pure citizen.

00:56:56.600 Like you don't, you don't really know anybody.

00:56:58.140 You're just reading this stuff and coming to your own conclusions.

00:57:01.000 And then you start tweeting them out.

00:57:02.980 And the next thing you know, you're doing it full-time and you have a big following.

00:57:06.840 Yeah.

00:57:06.980 I think it's a situation where there are a lot of really important thinkers.

00:57:10.400 And, you know, to be clear, I'm just standing on the shoulder of giants, guys like Samuel

00:57:14.260 Francis and Joe Soberen and Pat Buchanan and Paul Gottfried, who were sitting in the wilderness

00:57:20.020 for decades and decades.

00:57:21.540 And that's why I think the conservative movement was so intellectually impoverished for so long.

00:57:25.260 We forced all of our brightest minds into the wilderness because they kept saying things

00:57:28.700 that didn't jive with kind of a neocon agenda.

00:57:31.200 And they had to be driven from polite society.

00:57:34.320 And nobody said anything.

00:57:35.760 And at the center of so much of that was William F. Buckley Jr., who, you know, I think had good

00:57:40.460 qualities for sure.

00:57:41.520 I'm not, you know, it was awfully nice to me, I will say.

00:57:44.260 So I'm not, I don't hate the guy or anything, but it, in retrospect, I mean, he really served

00:57:48.480 one meaningful role in his life, which was to keep a certain variety of nationalism out

00:57:54.880 of the conservative canon.

00:57:58.180 Yeah, I think we can see this over and over again.

00:58:00.160 I mean, you even think of a guy like Russell Kirk, right?

00:58:02.080 Wrote The Conservative Mind, one of the intellectual giants defining the movement and more or less

00:58:07.840 got canceled because he had made one too many jokes about the capital of the United States

00:58:11.400 being in Tel Aviv.

00:58:12.680 You know, like that's all it took for you to get shoved off.

00:58:16.380 You can have this monumental career and this critical position and you can, you know, no

00:58:22.060 longer be allowed in polite society, get no longer get invited to the right dinners if

00:58:26.140 you have, you know, the wrong opinions.

00:58:27.680 It feels like things are changing fast.

00:58:30.200 Do you feel that?

00:58:31.220 Absolutely.

00:58:31.720 Where are they going?

00:58:33.660 They're going to go to a lot of interesting places.

00:58:35.400 As you pointed out, the, you know, the news sphere and more importantly, the narrative

00:58:40.700 sphere has disintermediated, right?

00:58:42.940 There's, we're no longer completely reliant on a couple of news channels and a couple

00:58:45.960 big newspapers.

00:58:48.020 And, you know, at first the right would really like this because it meant that they could

00:58:51.060 get around, you know, the left-wing control of all of these critical centers.

00:58:55.440 But now people on the right are getting panicked because their narratives are also breaking

00:59:00.040 down.

00:59:00.380 They can no longer, you can't use the National Review and a couple of, a couple of think

00:59:04.960 to kind of dictate how people understand the world.

00:59:08.360 I don't even criticize National Review.

00:59:10.140 I feel, you know, it's so, I don't think people even know what it is.

00:59:12.960 Do they?

00:59:14.080 No one my age at this point, no.

00:59:15.800 No.

00:59:17.060 So their panic, like Meghan McCain's all upset that people are saying things are just, she's

00:59:22.340 never heard before.

00:59:24.180 But I feel like people like that are irrelevant now.

00:59:28.200 Or maybe I'm just hoping that's true.

00:59:30.640 No, I think that's increasingly the case.

00:59:32.280 Again, I can't think of anyone who isn't paid in the beltway, who is under 50, who cares 0.95

00:59:37.980 what any of those people think, right?

00:59:39.900 And so I think we're really going through a generational switch.

00:59:42.620 I think the tail end of the boomer generation is still very much tied to the conservative

00:59:46.960 institutions.

00:59:47.680 They've had that, you know, cultural foxhole mentality for a long time and they see those 0.75

00:59:52.780 people as their champions.

00:59:53.900 But I think everyone behind them recognizes that, hey, I followed these, you know, platitudes

00:59:59.300 for decades and they never did anything for me.

01:00:01.840 And you know what I want to conserve?

01:00:03.280 The ability of my family to have children.

01:00:05.520 Ah, amen.

01:00:06.880 Amen.

01:00:08.100 I completely agree.

01:00:09.100 I've reduced my whole life down to that.

01:00:10.600 That's it.

01:00:10.920 That's my worldview.

01:00:12.340 Can my kids have kids and live in this beautiful place called America?

01:00:17.060 Will it still be beautiful?

01:00:18.440 You know, will it be all low-income housing?

01:00:21.380 No.

01:00:22.340 You know what I mean?

01:00:23.120 I think more and more the message that we don't live in an economic zone, but an actual

01:00:28.400 nation is really resonating with people.

01:00:31.160 We successfully somehow turned the right wing into the party of just disposable culture,

01:00:37.080 disposable identities, disposable people.

01:00:39.760 Who cares if, you know, the trade policy revolutionizes your town and gets rid of all the jobs and everyone

01:00:46.840 gets hooked on drugs?

01:00:47.720 At least the free market won, right?

01:00:49.080 No, I don't care.

01:00:50.400 I care about my neighbor.

01:00:51.940 I care about my family.

01:00:52.980 I care about the community that we've built for generations.

01:00:56.080 I shouldn't have to pick up my entire life and the many, many generations of social fabric

01:01:01.020 that exists there to go move somewhere else every time you decide it's slightly cheaper

01:01:04.920 to make something in China.

01:01:06.180 That's not the way, that's not a conservative way to understand our society.

01:01:10.320 And I think that's why you're seeing all of these institutions lose their power, because

01:01:14.960 ultimately, what people really care about preserving is the American people, the American

01:01:19.580 way of life, the tradition and existence of the people around them.

01:01:22.980 And I don't think you can sell them the idea that like infinite foreign labor labor is worth 1.00

01:01:27.140 taking a bunch of cruises at the end of your life and then making sure your kids can't own

01:01:31.080 a home.

01:01:31.580 Like those things are no longer something that actually sells to, I think, the coming generations.

01:01:35.280 No, I think they're rejecting it with real hostility.

01:01:38.580 Yeah.

01:01:39.660 Do they believe in democracy?

01:01:41.080 Do they believe the current system can ever improve the country?

01:01:44.440 I think at this point, democracy is just a shibboleth.

01:01:46.880 I don't think it really means a whole lot to people.

01:01:49.820 It's, you know, what is our democracy?

01:01:51.480 It's throwing the major candidate of the Republican Party in jail.

01:01:55.220 That's democracy.

01:01:56.100 That's how we protect our democracy, right?

01:01:57.800 What does that phrase even mean at this point?

01:02:00.160 I think people are ready for a government that cares about them, elites that care about

01:02:04.300 them, elites who know that they're ruling and know that they have an obligation to a

01:02:08.600 specific group and are no longer just, you know, using these people as pieces of exchange.

01:02:13.180 So it sounds like what you think, not to put words in your mouth, but what you think is

01:02:17.560 being rejected or going away is a fundamentally theoretical understanding of politics in the

01:02:23.020 world that is just not satisfying.

01:02:26.100 In the end, it doesn't serve anybody except for the people peddling the lie.

01:02:29.600 What we're going to be staring down, living through, is an understanding of the world that's

01:02:35.620 like much more practical and real.

01:02:37.160 Like, are you improving my life?

01:02:38.320 If you're not, leave.

01:02:39.320 Yeah, again, this is where we understand that the core, the foundation of politics is really

01:02:46.080 patronage.

01:02:47.120 What can you, the ruling class, those in charge, what kind of life can you provide for us?

01:02:53.580 What can you protect?

01:02:54.420 What are you doing?

01:02:55.260 A very direct relationship, not abstractly.

01:02:57.900 Are you signing a piece of paper, a treaty somewhere, you know, in Western Europe that

01:03:03.440 will theoretically secure my right?

01:03:05.820 No, what, can the person next to me have children?

01:03:09.400 Can the guy down the street take his kids to church, send them to school without worrying

01:03:14.220 about whether they'll be shot?

01:03:16.320 Is that an option?

01:03:17.420 Because that matters to me way more than the idea that you're defending democracy in Ukraine.

01:03:21.660 Exactly.

01:03:22.500 But it was, I remember watching Biden, who obviously was, you know, an elderly man who

01:03:27.680 didn't have his full faculties and all that.

01:03:29.500 But I, I still detected like sincerity on his face when he talked about Zelensky and his

01:03:35.600 heroism and how he was Churchill.

01:03:36.940 And this is the fight of our lives.

01:03:39.140 You know, democracy once again triumphs over darkness.

01:03:42.160 Like he really seemed to mean it.

01:03:45.140 I did.

01:03:45.960 I thought that was real.

01:03:47.140 Like the emotion coming out.

01:03:48.760 Do you remember any of these pressers?

01:03:50.480 I still.

01:03:51.600 The boomer brain always reverts to some, to the most tired cliche.

01:03:57.120 Why is that?

01:03:59.280 Well, I think they came into the world at a time where America more or less conquered 0.85

01:04:04.480 the world.

01:04:05.220 And when America conquered the world, we received all the benefits of empire.

01:04:09.580 And so they think of themselves, you know, and we're, we started as a country rejected

01:04:14.380 empire, right?

01:04:15.180 That's our entire foundation.

01:04:16.540 We led a revolution against an empire because we had the right to be governed by our peers,

01:04:21.680 by those elites that are part of our society and not across an ocean.

01:04:25.260 And so it's a very hard story to tell yourself that you conquered the world in the name of

01:04:30.160 freedom, right?

01:04:32.240 And so, and so I think for, uh, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance there and that

01:04:37.040 requires a very cartoon, you know, Marvel movie-esque understanding of the world.

01:04:41.340 We're Captain America.

01:04:42.500 We fought for freedom.

01:04:44.080 And, and, and, but that's, that's going, that's going away with the, with that generation.

01:04:48.500 It is going.

01:04:49.260 I mean, I do think there's something about, and I always beat up on the boomers. 1.00

01:04:52.800 There are a lot of great ones, wonderful people, but you know, broad strokes here.

01:04:57.680 This really was the first generation in history to have basically every part of their life

01:05:04.500 dictated by popular culture.

01:05:07.440 I mean, it's the television generation really, right?

01:05:10.200 And, and regional differences just went away during those years, 1946, 1964, and they kind

01:05:19.580 of lost the capacity to think critically or something.

01:05:23.140 Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:05:24.620 Again, I think it's because it's disembodied.

01:05:26.480 As you say, the, the, the, the radio and then the television, you know, the train and

01:05:30.900 then the automobile, these things collapsed the space inside of America that used to be

01:05:34.400 regional, had specific understandings and ways of life.

01:05:37.500 And when that happened, you, like you said, the only way to have a singular culture was

01:05:41.900 through this kind of mass media projection.

01:05:44.340 And so, yeah, I think, you know, the people make the joke, but you know, the old person 0.96

01:05:47.660 screaming at their television with the news is a, you know, it's a stereotype for a reason

01:05:52.320 because that's the only way they understood how to absorb the wider culture.

01:05:57.280 Yes.

01:05:57.600 No, it's right.

01:05:59.300 And I, I saw it with Republicans with Reagan.

01:06:01.900 I'm not against Reagan or anything.

01:06:03.840 Don't agree with everything, but I don't hate Reagan.

01:06:06.780 But I mean, they get so, and there are, you know, former colleagues of mine at TV channels

01:06:11.580 who were like, they talk about them and they just repeat the same eight phrases, Mr. Gorbachev

01:06:17.160 tear down this wall or whatever.

01:06:19.080 And they're kind of carried away in a sincere way.

01:06:21.640 Like they seem to experience life in the shallowest possible way.

01:06:28.220 Does this, do you feel what I'm saying?

01:06:30.700 Sure.

01:06:30.980 And, and, you know, a lot of that is the medium itself.

01:06:33.540 There's, there's statesmanship doesn't sell in soundbites, right?

01:06:37.340 That, that, yeah, that, that's not really how that works to be thoughtful, to be deliberate,

01:06:42.220 to have that level of prudence requires deliberation in time.

01:06:46.400 And you can't sell that, you know, in between ads.

01:06:49.800 And so that's harder and harder for political voices to really show.

01:06:53.680 It's easier to just repeat the slogans and we can hate people for that, but I don't think

01:06:58.000 we should.

01:06:58.420 Cause I think ultimately that's human nature.

01:07:00.220 Oh, I agree.

01:07:01.040 I don't hate them.

01:07:01.880 I just don't want them in power at all.

01:07:04.480 And I just want people to remember that so much of what they hear is misleading, but what

01:07:11.100 they experience is the truth.

01:07:12.820 That is the truth.

01:07:14.140 And if your children are addicted to drugs or your nephew dies of an OD and your kids 0.99

01:07:18.900 can't get married and the best they can hope for is to work at some freaking bank. 0.99

01:07:22.620 Like, like, that's not, that's not the life that you want for your family. 0.93

01:07:27.160 Like that's reality.

01:07:28.660 And it's nothing to do with bombing Iran or democracy or some nonsense like that.

01:07:33.560 Like, how are your kids doing?

01:07:34.660 I just think it's important to notice the world around you.

01:07:37.820 Well, it's so amazing because so many people got angry with the, uh, with the Zoran Mamdani

01:07:42.520 in New York, right?

01:07:43.900 Yeah.

01:07:44.080 They, oh, the socialist is winning.

01:07:45.600 How could a socialist win?

01:07:46.820 And it's like, I don't know, guys, have you looked at the fact that the average first

01:07:50.960 time home buyer thing is now 38 years old?

01:07:54.620 Have you understood the fact that no one, you know, can get a decent job without going

01:07:59.280 a hundred thousand dollars in debt for a degree that objectively taught them nothing.

01:08:03.660 And they're actually just doing any learning they actually do on the job anyway.

01:08:07.540 If you've built a society that shows people your system doesn't work.

01:08:11.580 Now, I think there is a much better way than communism, but you, but you have to show

01:08:16.700 though.

01:08:16.880 You can't just sit there and obstinately say, no, we're, we're the system ride or die.

01:08:20.760 We don't care if you, you know, if you're homeless, we don't care if you can't have

01:08:24.000 children.

01:08:24.320 We don't care if you're going to live the rest of your life in your mom's basement. 0.60

01:08:26.940 That's your fault.

01:08:27.820 There's nothing wrong with the system ever.

01:08:29.520 There's no reason to look at any of this.

01:08:31.380 And I think, again, we're really seeing that shift, right?

01:08:35.600 We're, we're seeing that mentality shift in the younger conservative core.

01:08:39.700 They truly understand, like, if I don't fix this soon, then I'm never having a future.

01:08:44.640 I'm never having children.

01:08:45.560 Like I, my, my, my bloodline will end.

01:08:48.180 My, my, my religion will fade because it's no longer practice.

01:08:51.800 My community will collapse.

01:08:53.520 I don't have time to sit around here.

01:08:55.220 My bloodline will end.

01:08:56.280 My religion will fade and my community will collapse.

01:08:58.620 Those are the things that you are programmed by nature.

01:09:01.580 In fact, in my view, by God to care about.

01:09:04.080 That's what matters.

01:09:05.840 Absolutely.

01:09:06.160 And the, the idea that we almost never talk about any of this, that any discussion on any

01:09:11.000 of these ideas is completely deeply forbidden, you know, what, then what are you trying to

01:09:15.420 do to our society?

01:09:16.560 I think it becomes pretty clear.

01:09:18.600 Well, of course, of course, they're trying to eliminate it.

01:09:22.340 Right.

01:09:22.880 And that would include like my whole family.

01:09:24.480 So no, I, how radical are young people getting?

01:09:27.780 More radical by the day.

01:09:29.800 And, you know, I'll say this, after COVID, my idea that we're going to have some kind

01:09:35.660 of revolution really faded pretty quickly.

01:09:37.720 Yeah, I know.

01:09:38.040 Right.

01:09:38.220 I don't think we're going to have some, you know, 1776 revival here.

01:09:43.240 I don't think that's going to be what happens.

01:09:45.440 I think what's going to happen is-

01:09:46.840 1789?

01:09:47.760 I think what's more likely-

01:09:49.360 I hope not.

01:09:49.920 Let's hope not.

01:09:50.620 Yeah.

01:09:50.740 I don't want to go on the guillotine either, but I think more and more what's going to

01:09:55.240 happen is people are going to check out.

01:09:56.780 We're already seeing this, right?

01:09:57.700 We hear people, men walking away from the workforce, walking away from forming families.

01:10:03.420 We're going to keep eating out the center of what actually holds our society up.

01:10:07.520 We think it's abstract ideas.

01:10:09.080 What it actually is, is young men going out, working, forming families, finding, you know,

01:10:13.920 worthy women, creating families, building societies together.

01:10:17.580 That's what actually holds these things up.

01:10:19.500 And it's all going to haul out from the center.

01:10:20.980 And you can't import foreigners fast enough to solve this problem for you. 1.00

01:10:24.800 And so what we're going to end up with is if we don't take radical action, I don't think

01:10:29.160 it's some kind of armed rebellion.

01:10:30.540 What we're going to see is a society that falls apart from the inside because it loses

01:10:34.460 its capacity.

01:10:35.420 It loses its ability to do complex tasks, to coordinate all the things that require this

01:10:39.800 vast empire to function.

01:10:41.480 And when those things start dropping out, then we're really going to be up a creek.

01:10:44.800 Well, we're there.

01:10:45.440 Yeah.

01:10:45.700 We're at, sorry, started.

01:10:46.340 You can't fly across the country right now with a single stop and get there on time.

01:10:50.480 It's not, you know, or the whole air, I know nobody seems to care, but like our air traffic

01:10:55.220 system is like collapsed.

01:10:58.240 Have you flown on a plane that's been on time recently?

01:11:00.960 It's, this was the, getting here is probably the first time in a long time.

01:11:03.960 Right.

01:11:04.360 Anything with a connecting flight is possible.

01:11:05.960 And this is just the competency crisis because we're, we're specifically checking out all the

01:11:10.880 capable people from our society while we're simultaneously importing a bunch of people 0.94

01:11:14.900 who have not had that ability and are going to be automated out of existence for most of

01:11:21.060 the jobs we're hiring them for anyway. 0.74

01:11:22.580 And in no way are we cultivating a set of people who are ready to face the challenges of a complicated

01:11:27.860 world that we're existing in.

01:11:29.080 Yeah.

01:11:29.420 So that, I mean, I, I do disagree with you on one point when you say that there will

01:11:33.360 be no rebellion, there'll be no violence in response to all of this.

01:11:38.180 I think there already is a lot of violence, but it's, it's self-harm.

01:11:41.700 Um, so like, and you see this in formerly England, now the UK, but, uh, you know, people are not

01:11:49.120 fighting the government.

01:11:50.620 They're not killing the tyrants.

01:11:52.040 They're killing themselves.

01:11:53.260 Yeah.

01:11:53.960 Well, that's the beauty of importing factionalism into your society.

01:11:57.980 The factions can fight each other and not you.

01:12:00.540 Again.

01:12:00.680 Right.

01:12:00.880 But I'm saying that native population, the indigenous population of that island is decided 1.00

01:12:04.960 to just kill itself.

01:12:06.140 Yes.

01:12:06.380 And then, and that's been the horrible tragedy is it either resigns itself to something terrible

01:12:11.920 or like you said, they just turn on each other.

01:12:13.860 They never blame the people in charge.

01:12:15.460 But again, that's the beauty of democracy.

01:12:17.240 There's always another level of which there's another voter.

01:12:19.840 There's someone else or some other faction.

01:12:22.040 You just didn't, you know, select the correct people.

01:12:24.540 That's never actually the people who are benefiting, making money, you know, off of your misery.

01:12:30.680 So democracy is like a perfect way to dodge responsibility for your crimes is what you're saying.

01:12:35.360 It's an incredible pressure release valve when done.

01:12:37.740 And again, I do think that small scale Republican government can work.

01:12:41.400 We have seen that work.

01:12:42.400 I think that was initially the intention of the United States and how it operated.

01:12:47.220 But mass democracy, the idea that, I mean, look what they're doing in the UK.

01:12:50.760 They just unilaterally expanded the franchise to 16 year olds.

01:12:54.940 Why?

01:12:55.580 What's the, what's the purpose for doing that?

01:12:57.300 Pakistanis.

01:12:57.860 Well, the younger population coming through.

01:13:00.740 Also, they know they can control those people easier.

01:13:03.720 These are, this is a younger population.

01:13:05.360 It's going to be more susceptible to mass media and manipulation.

01:13:08.000 And it's going to increase their control over that country.

01:13:10.960 It's not, it's not a democracy or more properly labeled a republic in the sense of a smaller group of people, all who have a serious investment in society and have a proven track record of taking care of their community.

01:13:25.000 Instead, it's just literally anyone with a telephone or a television.

01:13:29.160 That's all that matters.

01:13:30.120 So, democracy has come to the end is what you're saying.

01:13:35.280 We will continue to have elections.

01:13:37.780 You know, we will continue to go through it, but it's increasingly a ghost dance.

01:13:41.740 It's increasingly a dead form of something that actually doesn't impact our society.

01:13:47.560 Are you familiar with the ghost dance?

01:13:49.220 Yes, I am.

01:13:49.720 Okay.

01:13:50.520 So, one of the saddest stories in American history.

01:13:53.340 Yeah, this is how you got the massacre.

01:13:54.800 Can you tell it?

01:13:55.360 Sure, of course.

01:13:56.040 So, there was this idea, of course, for many Indian tribes that they were communing with spirits when they went through a particular dance that this was going to bring the power of their ancestors.

01:14:07.000 And that was going to help them to reclaim their land.

01:14:09.680 This was at the end of the Indian Wars.

01:14:11.320 This is after they lost.

01:14:12.680 Yeah, this is after the Indians had lost.

01:14:14.520 The majority had been forced on reservations, you know, continually over and over again.

01:14:19.420 But the idea is they could reconnect with the spirit of their society by going through this ritual and their ancestors would protect them.

01:14:25.680 And they actually all gathered together, mainly the Lakota tribe.

01:14:29.820 And when the U.S. Army was sent to respond to this gathering, this is, you know, they performed the ghost dance thinking that this would protect them from the bullets of the soldiers.

01:14:38.740 And instead, you got the massacre and wounded knee.

01:14:41.260 And this is, in many ways, what we are doing with liberal democracy.

01:14:45.100 Now, we keep going through the motions.

01:14:47.020 Oh, well, you know, there's a democracy.

01:14:49.100 We vote.

01:14:49.580 We do this.

01:14:50.220 And this will change society.

01:14:51.240 This will fundamentally change the way things work.

01:14:53.880 But over and over, we just keep running into these hail of bullets.

01:14:56.740 Because the thing we're using, the power that we're trying to leverage, the power of the republic that existed at the founding, it's no longer connected to the actual rules here.

01:15:07.000 We're people turning a steering wheel or mashing a gas pedal on a car without an engine.

01:15:12.360 And at this point, the question of the Trump administration is, can you make America work like a republic again?

01:15:18.340 Is that even possible anymore?

01:15:19.960 I think they're trying.

01:15:21.080 I think they're actually trying by stripping away much of the bureaucracy, attempting to take direct action whenever possible to improve the lives of Americans.

01:15:28.680 But they're running into every possible barrier you can imagine, legal, cultural, everything.

01:15:34.520 And so I think that, you know, they're going to have to overcome a massive barrier if they want to attempt to return us to that system.

01:15:41.660 And I'm not sure that they can.

01:15:43.240 So if democracy is as kind of desiccated and useless and fake as you described, then, you know, nothing that fake can last.

01:15:53.660 It's going to be replaced by a new system.

01:15:55.660 What will that system be?

01:15:56.440 And what will we call it?

01:15:57.280 You know, there's a lot of people, and I think there's probably some truth to this, who think that we're all converging on the Chinese system.

01:16:04.400 That ultimately, the thing that allows for hegemons to operate globe-spanning or at least large regional powers to operate at scale we're looking at in an advanced society like our own is a kind of soft totalitarianism. 1.00

01:16:17.440 Requires it, is what you're saying.

01:16:18.920 You can't actually run a country this big unless you're totalitarian.

01:16:23.240 This is a systems issue.

01:16:24.320 And again, we like to – some things are virtue issues, some things are principle issues, but some things are just system issues.

01:16:31.440 Can you describe what that means?

01:16:32.760 When we're looking at different political forms, they have limitations.

01:16:35.820 And like we said, with the republic and the republican tradition, everyone from Aristotle to our founding fathers recognized that scale is an issue and that if you try to run your large empire as a republic, you're going to run into issues very quickly.

01:16:49.040 It's going to start to come apart.

01:16:50.480 The same is true when we get to these vast empires.

01:16:53.020 They have to be run in a specific way.

01:16:54.740 If you want to control the opinions of people, if you want to leverage popular opinion and a particular understanding, if you want to use the economies of scale that you need in those type of societies, there's only so many ways you can operate.

01:17:05.940 And one of them is the Chinese system.

01:17:07.360 And that seems to be one of the most successful ones at this time.

01:17:10.220 Again, I wouldn't want to live under it.

01:17:11.440 It's not our way of being, but it is one that our global elites seem to be settling on as the model.

01:17:16.740 Of course, where your prison is invisible, but no less real.

01:17:23.200 You don't have to take anyone to the gulag.

01:17:25.580 They just can't get a job or a house or a wife. 0.97

01:17:28.380 We don't need to put people in concentration camps anymore.

01:17:31.360 You still might, but you don't need to do that anymore to be tyrannical.

01:17:34.440 We can debank you.

01:17:35.660 We can ensure that no one can ever hear your voice again, that you're never allowed in polite society,

01:17:39.860 that there's a camera watching you 24-7 that will destroy your life if you step off the reservation.

01:17:45.320 We don't need the trains anymore.

01:17:47.060 What's interesting is that everybody seems on board with this in our leadership class.

01:17:53.000 Like you imagine the Republicans get in power and they'll make it absolutely impossible for digital currency to become real,

01:17:58.940 such a big digital currency.

01:18:00.400 They're already taking steps.

01:18:01.240 Republicans in Congress laying the found work, you know, the basis for that now.

01:18:08.040 So is there any escape from it?

01:18:11.960 Not for a while.

01:18:12.980 And I think this is also why we see all of our governments rushing towards artificial intelligence as well, right?

01:18:17.360 Because this is another way to manage populations in a vast society.

01:18:21.740 Algorithms that can constantly screen everything you're doing and everything you're saying and every, you know,

01:18:26.340 opinion that you have and every piece of media you consume and what library books,

01:18:30.080 if you're even checking out a library book at this point, if that even exists.

01:18:32.760 Like these are things that are all critical and AI can do these tasks at scale at a high level of rapidity.

01:18:39.660 And so I think that all of our technology is increasingly – a lot of people have said that American technological revolution will free us from this.

01:18:47.560 But honestly, every piece of technology that as we understand it right now is most usefully deployed by the regime as a way to control people,

01:18:55.260 as a way to exert their power.

01:18:56.180 Well, I don't think anyone's pretending otherwise.

01:18:57.860 For all the talk of how, you know, AI is going to change the future, which clearly it will,

01:19:03.300 there's almost no description of the upside for the average person.

01:19:07.820 Like no one even bothers to tell the guy making $100,000 a year how this is going to make his life better.

01:19:13.680 Yeah.

01:19:13.840 And it's even worse because it starts abstracting away people's understanding of reality.

01:19:18.160 Your epistemology is fundamentally broken when you rely on an AI search engine to bring you the truth. 0.91

01:19:23.540 And as somebody who was teaching high school not that long ago, I've already seen it with just the dumber versions of Google.

01:19:28.840 No children have any context for any decision they're making.

01:19:32.080 They don't – again, as we talked about, they don't have a link to history.

01:19:34.660 They don't have a link to tradition.

01:19:35.780 They don't have religion that informs anything.

01:19:37.520 All the knowledge they have is what's delivered to them digitally in that search.

01:19:41.460 That's what they believe to be authoritative in every area.

01:19:43.940 And so when you see that over and over again, you realize the individual is going to have no decision-making power

01:19:48.680 because they don't even have organic experiences in real life to draw knowledge from.

01:19:53.720 All they have is the digital world that's been served to them through AI.

01:19:58.220 So if you're older like me, you imagine censorship is the threat to speech, right?

01:20:04.320 So there are all kinds of things that are true that are being said now on the internet right now that are like an actual threat to the way things are.

01:20:12.060 So they have to be shut down.

01:20:13.580 I mean, I'm just operating on that assumption.

01:20:15.840 And they will be shut down, but they won't be censored.

01:20:18.120 They'll be overwhelmed by AI.

01:20:21.480 That's my guess.

01:20:22.060 One of the things you can do is just flood the zone.

01:20:24.180 You can flood the signal so that there's no way to pick out the truth from the vast amount of information that's flowing over you.

01:20:30.820 Or you can curate the environment properly through AI on a consistent basis to where people don't even realize that the environment is being curated in the first place.

01:20:39.140 Either way, as you say, you don't have to do hard censorship.

01:20:41.720 The information is out there somewhere if you're one of those radical extremists who is thinking for yourself and looking into any of this stuff.

01:20:47.320 But for the vast majority of people who are never going to put that kind of effort into it, that's not the way they're going to see the world.

01:20:52.640 That's not how they're going to receive information.

01:20:56.200 So to the form of government we're getting, you believe it's most likely we wind up with some kind of Chinese form of government where there's a president and a legislative body.

01:21:07.280 But underneath it all, the regime maintains power through technology, a social credit system of some sort where you, you know, you do the well of the regime where you just can't live.

01:21:18.340 You don't get executed, but you just, no one would choose that.

01:21:20.920 Only a tenth of one percent of the population really rebels against you.

01:21:25.640 And then the, you know, the really bad ones you kill, but the rest you just like let live in obscurity.

01:21:30.820 I mean, I don't think that's coming.

01:21:32.180 I think that's here, right?

01:21:33.220 How does that not describe the society we have currently where people are regularly debanked, where they do have their entire lives destroyed by the social credit system on a regular basis?

01:21:42.940 We haven't formalized many of these things in the United States yet, but we've been building this type of soft power for generations.

01:21:49.620 It's very clear that this is how our, you know, oligarchy intends to rule us and does rule us on a regular basis.

01:21:56.180 Again, I don't think it's as severe as it is in China.

01:21:58.360 I think we're, we have more time before we get, you know, past the point of no return, but I think we're well into our era of being ruled by this kind of technocratic, you know, omnipresent state.

01:22:11.920 Then I don't, so here's the contradiction at the heart of your description.

01:22:14.460 If you're saying that the ruling bureaucratic class maintains power by sowing chaos and division in the society, anarcho-tyranny.

01:22:27.140 But if they have so much control, why do they need to do that?

01:22:30.440 Why not have an orderly, I mean, the upside of a totalitarian society is order.

01:22:36.060 I mean, it's not worth it.

01:22:37.060 It's always bad, right?

01:22:38.300 Or it's a violation of my principles, but at least there was no crime in the Soviet Union or less, right? 0.87

01:22:45.120 Well, I think the reason that they create the chaos is that this allows them ultimately to avoid the formation and any of the bonds that would push back against them.

01:22:54.380 Of course.

01:22:55.000 Right.

01:22:55.420 But if their technological superiority is so profound, if you can't buy a plane ticket, if you disagree with them, and we're clearly moving toward that, then TSA, you know, George W. Bush does not get, as much as he's reviled, and he is, he's not reviled enough.

01:23:11.960 Create TSA.

01:23:14.080 Sorry, I'm a prisoner to my outrage.

01:23:16.580 But if they already have all this power, which they do, the tyrants, why not have an orderly society, too?

01:23:26.360 Well, they're still, as you point out, not entirely in control of the scenario.

01:23:30.180 We're not quite there yet, right?

01:23:31.500 There's still a good amount.

01:23:32.640 I mean, Americans, whether they deployed them or not during COVID, are still in control of a vast amount of guns.

01:23:37.880 There's still a ghost of federalism in our system.

01:23:40.680 There is a level of obstruction that can be brought by, you know, localities and states and these kind of things.

01:23:46.140 There is still a narrative factor involved also in our political formula.

01:23:51.780 A political formula is the way in which your rulers justify their power.

01:23:55.960 In China, their political narrative is very different.

01:23:58.620 But the United States, it is built on this idea of we are a free society.

01:24:02.680 We are a society that, at the very least, allows you every libertine desire that you have, right? 0.96

01:24:07.960 As much sodomy as you want. 0.99

01:24:09.220 Right, exactly, yeah. 0.97

01:24:10.320 Not the right to live where you want, next to the people you want to.

01:24:13.740 No right to form a religious community, but lots—freedom of sodomy, for sure. 0.99

01:24:18.160 Yeah.

01:24:18.580 Freedom to purchase a small child, if you'd like.

01:24:22.180 However, you know, that—

01:24:24.560 And some are availing themselves of the opportunity.

01:24:27.940 Some conservatives.

01:24:29.540 However, if that's what you want to call it.

01:24:30.760 You think Dave Rubin's conservative?

01:24:32.160 Like, what is conservative about Dave Rubin?

01:24:34.060 He left the left, right?

01:24:35.520 Which is kind of the classic—

01:24:36.740 I don't mean leave the left.

01:24:37.760 I mean, it seems squarely there to me.

01:24:40.280 I mean, this is the line we hear over and over again that, well, I jumped away from the identity politics stuff, except, you know, when it attacks any of my identities.

01:24:49.460 You know, that kind of thing.

01:24:51.080 Dave Rubin seemed—and Barry Weiss, too—seem like the main purveyors of identity politics in the world that I live in.

01:24:58.240 I thought they left the left.

01:25:00.800 There is one type of identity politics that is resoundingly celebrated on the right.

01:25:05.500 Not by me.

01:25:06.260 I don't like identity politics.

01:25:07.520 I don't either, but there is one that is sacred. 1.00

01:25:11.740 Tough shit. 0.99

01:25:12.800 You know, I'm against it. 1.00

01:25:13.880 So, all identity politics.

01:25:16.960 So, I mean, when I start lecturing about how you're not allowed to, you know, criticize Northern Europeans or something, Episcopalians, then you'll know that I'm every bit as bad as Dave Rubin.

01:25:27.200 But I'm not there yet.

01:25:28.720 Anyway, at some point when the regime decides actually we're against crime and we do have to have real borders and, like, I don't know, we care about drugs and we don't want the society to, like, collapse completely, that's when you'll know they have complete totalitarian control.

01:25:51.980 Or they recognize that the utility of destroying the country is coming to an end.

01:25:57.920 That's what I'm saying.

01:25:58.640 That's what I'm saying.

01:25:59.260 Because at that point, they'll feel like, okay, we own this completely, so why wreck it?

01:26:03.160 It's our house now.

01:26:04.100 Yes.

01:26:04.600 And this is how you, you know, again, this is the classic principle of actually how you get a king, right?

01:26:09.920 Because they're generationally invested in the well-being of the land they're ruling, the people they're ruling, and they have the power to control the outcomes there.

01:26:18.700 So, if you actually care about that, if you're actually going to benefit, why not invest your control in actually producing a better population?

01:26:24.120 I completely agree.

01:26:24.800 Yeah, I mean, feudalism is so much better than what we have now because, at least in feudalism, the leader is vested in the prosperity of the people he rules.

01:26:32.580 Right.

01:26:33.180 You know, if all your serfs die, you starve.

01:26:36.160 Yeah, there's a true incentive to care for those people.

01:26:38.380 Now, again, there is also, that also exists in a republic if properly managed, but as we've noted, we're well beyond the requirements that even our founders laid out for a functional republican government.

01:26:49.180 And so, what options are left?

01:26:50.460 As we've said, at this scale, empire is more or less the only option.

01:26:54.480 And then the question is, you know, do you want some kind of autocracy?

01:26:58.200 Do you want some kind of disembodied ruling council?

01:27:00.900 You know, those really quickly become your options when you're entering into that kind of society.

01:27:05.560 Can I ask, so you've said that the options are the empire continues to expand or we pull back the empire.

01:27:11.500 Right.

01:27:12.180 What about status quo, which is always my preferred option anyway, just in life?

01:27:15.860 Why does the empire need to keep acquiring and controlling?

01:27:20.700 Why isn't it enough to say, we're this awesome empire, we're great, we're awesome.

01:27:25.380 And we don't need to manage every little thing, but we're, you know, we're in control of our hemisphere and like Japan and South Korea.

01:27:32.920 And that's just great.

01:27:33.760 Why do we need to control Yemen too? 0.97

01:27:35.960 It's the natural hubris, I think, of any elites.

01:27:39.100 Again, I think there are large incentives of scale when it comes to the managerial elite.

01:27:43.560 But then again, as we've discussed, there's also, I think, a lot of people who, when you're the global hegemon, they want to influence the United States and use it for their own purposes.

01:27:52.300 And so if you've got this thousand pound gorilla in the room, you want it fighting your enemies, right?

01:27:57.360 And so there's a high degree of investment by different powers and peoples in wielding the United States as a weapon, not for the interest of our people or, you know, what would benefit us or even our empire, but what would benefit those individuals in the nations that they're associated with.

01:28:12.400 And again, this is why Washington warned so much about the factionalism because this is what's going to create those different incentives inside your elites to stop serving the people and start serving the favored nation or the outside.

01:28:25.740 When will we know that our old system is completely gone?

01:28:29.260 I don't think we will for a long time.

01:28:32.340 If you think about the way that Rome transitioned, of course, it started as a kingdom.

01:28:35.900 It became a republic.

01:28:37.060 If this sounds familiar, it's because it's the same cycle we were on.

01:28:39.620 And then it became an empire.

01:28:41.820 And when it became an empire, no one started calling Octavian or Augustus the emperor.

01:28:47.780 He just assembled the different powers of the principate.

01:28:50.460 And the Senate stuck around for many generations.

01:28:53.120 They still had influence.

01:28:53.980 There were many Roman emperors who had to listen to the Senate and the men who were there.

01:28:58.100 They didn't disappear.

01:28:59.640 But over time, we slowly see the way that Rome operated shifted.

01:29:04.080 More and more power got moved into the emperor's hands.

01:29:07.500 Less and less sat with the people and even with the aristocracy eventually.

01:29:11.500 And I think you'll see something very similar with the United States.

01:29:14.360 No one's going to come by and hit a gong and declare that, you know, the United States has fallen.

01:29:18.900 The empire is over.

01:29:20.060 We'll probably just see a similar change over time.

01:29:23.120 But in Rome, one of the hallmarks of this evolution was the declining power of the legislative branch.

01:29:29.880 Was that, I mean, we definitely see that here.

01:29:32.960 For sure.

01:29:33.440 And again, you know, the Senate existed.

01:29:36.500 It had influence.

01:29:37.380 But yes, more and more it was very clear that that's not where decisions were made.

01:29:41.160 And this is, again, very common in complex societies.

01:29:45.720 Larger bureaucratic societies come with it.

01:29:47.760 Because to manage all of this area to all these peoples, all this scale, you need a high degree of expertise.

01:29:53.120 And the people in the legislative branch simply don't have it.

01:29:56.200 So what happens is all of the legislative decisions get moved into the executive side, which is, again, what we've seen in the United States, because it contains all of these different organizations with all these experts that can operate all the mechanisms of scale that the congressmen simply don't understand.

01:30:14.260 And so it turns out that all of our legislation is just written by a bunch of legislative age and a bunch of lobbyists and foreign influence while the actual stuff gets done inside of the executive branch.

01:30:26.880 But even then, in our system, we've seen that the executive has trouble even controlling his own branch.

01:30:32.400 The entire first Trump presidency was defined by his inability to wrangle the executive branch and bring it to heel.

01:30:39.180 And that was obviously their intention this time when they went in, which is why guys like J.D. Vance were talking about the importance of dismantling the administrative state.

01:30:46.040 They knew that at the end, that was the biggest barrier to running the country for the will of the people.

01:30:52.880 Is there any hope of reform?

01:30:55.860 I am skeptical, and I hate saying that because I love my country.

01:30:59.560 It's the only place I've ever lived.

01:31:00.720 I'm never going anywhere else.

01:31:01.880 I'm never running away.

01:31:02.800 This is my home.

01:31:03.600 These are my people.

01:31:04.280 And I'm never abandoning it.

01:31:07.900 But I always say I'm short on the American regime, but I'm long on the American people.

01:31:12.860 Will we have exactly the United States as we understand it in 20, 50, 100 years?

01:31:18.420 I'm doubtful.

01:31:19.520 But will the American people still be strong?

01:31:21.780 Will they still be resilient?

01:31:22.820 Will their way of life live on?

01:31:24.620 That's what we're fighting for at this point.

01:31:26.820 And that's achievable.

01:31:27.940 I think that is.

01:31:28.760 Could you imagine a country where people were allowed to kind of live according to their own customs in different regions?

01:31:36.220 Yeah, and we've seen this again.

01:31:37.680 This is a classic model of, you know, even the American understanding originally was federalist, right?

01:31:42.700 This is how we overcame so many of our different cultures or understandings, even when we were simply a few colonies.

01:31:49.480 Because we knew that actually those states had their own way of doing things.

01:31:54.000 And we didn't need to reach in and manipulate them at every given time.

01:31:58.020 But unfortunately, the story of the United States is the story of the erosion of those rights, right?

01:32:03.480 We destroyed the 10th Amendment. 0.90

01:32:05.160 The 14th Amendment completely, an incorporation doctrine, radically changed the way that we understand the different rights of our states.

01:32:13.020 Obviously, the civil war and the inability of a state to leave had its own implications for how a region can be governed.

01:32:19.380 So there are, you know, even in our own history, real examples of how we can have individual customs and individual ways of being even inside our society.

01:32:31.760 But, you know, we're much more like each other as Americans than we are different people.

01:32:36.280 So there's still overlap there.

01:32:37.900 You don't have to have radically different ways of life.

01:32:40.940 But, you know, you are allowed a certain amount of freedom.

01:32:42.980 You don't have to have the central government constantly dictating everything.

01:32:45.460 But technology makes it easier for the central government.

01:32:48.540 I mean, 1956, Eisenhower sent the 101st Airborne to Central High School in Little Rock to enforce Brown v. Board.

01:32:57.580 And that wouldn't have happened, you know, 50 years before because how would you get the 101st Airborne to Little Rock?

01:33:04.860 You couldn't just put them on a plane.

01:33:06.740 Right.

01:33:06.840 And, but now, you know, almost anything is possible from Washington with technology.

01:33:13.760 So, I mean, do you think there will be places if you have like a different view of things or you want to live near people like you?

01:33:21.400 Will that be allowed?

01:33:22.320 Again, it's going to depend on how powerful the central government is able to, or how long a powerful central government is able to maintain control.

01:33:32.460 I think that all of the things we're talking about, all the technology, all the logistics, they require competence managing complexity, right?

01:33:39.920 Yeah.

01:33:40.160 The very thing we're losing.

01:33:41.180 No, that's right.

01:33:41.760 And so, all of these impositions by the central government on our way of life require them to be able to coordinate these actions.

01:33:48.980 And even though the technology is going to get more advanced, will we be able to regularly apply it?

01:33:52.860 Will we be able to maintain it?

01:33:54.120 Will you actually be able to deliver that power and control on a consistent basis?

01:33:58.780 That's going to be the question, I think, that determines.

01:34:01.120 I hope not. 1.00

01:34:01.420 I mean, I lived in a tyrannical city most of my life, but the people running at Washington, D.C. at the local level were so stupid that you could kind of do whatever you wanted and corrupt and some nice, by the way, but just dumb. 0.99

01:34:14.500 So, like, you know, everything was against the law, but you could do whatever you wanted to do. 0.99

01:34:19.940 And that was kind of great.

01:34:22.020 Yeah, there is a certain level at which a third world kleptocracy is freer than the society we're in right now. 0.98

01:34:30.580 That's the argument I used to make at dinner in D.C. to my neighbors, and they really hated it.

01:34:36.660 But I always say, you know, you can do whatever you want here, like, whatever you want, except, I guess, be Donald Trump.

01:34:45.380 But short of that, you could do whatever you wanted.

01:34:50.140 Interesting.

01:34:51.100 Do you, I noticed that there is this still to this moment, this desire to, like, 0.99

01:35:00.580 kill the whites? 0.99

01:35:02.020 I think it's so weird. 0.99

01:35:04.820 I think it's, like, almost like the official policy or it's certainly the mindset of so many in power across the world.

01:35:11.780 And I don't really understand what that is.

01:35:13.760 It's majority white countries that are being targeted for mass migration.

01:35:20.140 And it's only those countries. 0.96

01:35:23.340 And I'm not saying this as some sort of crazy white partisan.

01:35:26.120 I am white, but I'm not, like, obsessed with being white or anything. 0.78

01:35:29.660 But I just notice it.

01:35:31.640 And I think it's really evil, but I don't really know where that comes from.

01:35:35.200 Where does that come from?

01:35:35.880 Well, a large amount of it comes from the narrative that we tell ourselves.

01:35:39.840 So, post the World War II and especially post the Civil Rights Revolution, the purpose of the United States is to remove any differences between outcomes for different races.

01:35:52.620 And any differences that show themselves that manifest between races can only be de facto evidence of racism, right?

01:36:00.320 This is literally the law of the land.

01:36:01.540 Most people don't understand that after Griggs versus Duke Power, we have this idea called disparate impact.

01:36:07.620 And this disparate impact doctrine says that if there are any outcomes that are different between groups, even if you didn't intend to be racist, you must be racist.

01:36:15.820 That's the only explanation.

01:36:17.580 So, like, for instance, the Sheetz gas station chain started running background checks, criminal background checks, on their employees, which makes perfect sense.

01:36:25.420 You don't want someone who's a felon running your gas station, right?

01:36:28.900 But they lost a case against the federal government and had to settle this massive fine because more minorities were being selected by the background checks and removed because they had more criminal records.

01:36:40.980 And even though that's just an objective fact uncovered by the Sheetz gas station using that standard, it's still racist.

01:36:49.440 It's still their intention, whether they had it or not, whether or not they had the intention, they are still guilty of racism.

01:36:55.160 And so, therefore, they have to get rid of this policy.

01:36:58.860 This is the way we see our entire society.

01:37:00.840 You have to, in some way, assume that whites have held down other groups inside your society.

01:37:07.660 That's the only explanation for why they might be in one position and those other minorities might be in another. 0.98

01:37:13.180 And so, you have to destroy those people. 0.86

01:37:14.660 You have to, all your hatred is justifiable because at the end of the day, those people probably, you know, they have some sympathy with Nazis or they're somehow related to mid-century Germans. 0.98

01:37:24.260 Like, that's the conclusion we seem to draw over and over again.

01:37:27.040 And that gives a blank check to people to treat many people in America and other European nations as less than human.

01:37:34.480 And boy, are they.

01:37:35.300 There was this kind of amazing case in Cincinnati recently where this white couple, there's video of it, were at some jazz festival and got surrounded by a group of black people who just, who beat them unconscious. 0.87

01:37:49.500 I don't know the context of it.

01:37:51.400 I'm sure there's a lot I don't understand.

01:37:53.040 But from the video, it looks like what happens a lot in this country was they were beaten up because they were white.

01:37:58.120 Very common.

01:37:59.540 And the stats prove it.

01:38:00.920 Um, but it's, the fact, that fact is suppressed.

01:38:03.760 Every single person knows it.

01:38:05.460 It happens in prisons.

01:38:06.500 It happens in schools.

01:38:07.660 It happens in parks.

01:38:08.780 It happens at jazz festivals.

01:38:10.440 But what's so, and it's obviously awful as it would be, you know, that all that violence is awful, racial discrimination is awful, whatever.

01:38:17.640 But what I find interesting is that the authorities are like angry when you point it out.

01:38:22.040 And there's this video of this kind of fat, middle-aged police chief, person posing as a police chief, um, in Cincinnati.

01:38:30.840 We don't have any police chiefs who seem like they could actually be beat cops, I noticed. 0.99

01:38:34.100 They're all, like, pathetic. 0.99

01:38:35.240 And this woman is, she's angry and she's, you know, lecturing, you know, when you talk about this, it's disinformation. 0.99

01:38:42.120 And, like, there's no mention at all that these people seem to be targeted for the race.

01:38:47.200 Even if they weren't, even if it was a colorblind crime, they're lying unconscious on the ground.

01:38:50.520 She's not mad about that.

01:38:52.020 She's mad that someone might be talking about white people getting hurt.

01:38:54.640 What is that?

01:38:56.040 So, uh, there's a lot of reasons behind that.

01:38:59.100 But the most shocking one to your audience will be the community relations services.

01:39:02.720 So, if they're not familiar with this organization, it's statutorily required by the Civil Rights Act.

01:39:09.220 And its job, in theory, is to go out and smooth over race relations in the United States.

01:39:14.520 Wherever there's going to be a hotspot, you deploy the community relations service, the CRS, to that hotspot, and you try to calm the tensions between different communities.

01:39:24.740 In reality, what the CRS actually does is goes in and tells white victim families that they need to put out specific statements.

01:39:33.260 They coach them through particular narratives.

01:39:36.260 They are often provided with written statements to go out and talk to the media about it.

01:39:40.440 And you'll see this pattern over and over again, right?

01:39:42.560 The, the, usually it's an elderly father figure, if the father isn't available.

01:39:46.440 Yes.

01:39:46.820 They come out, they tell a story about how their child was great, the one that was killed.

01:39:51.260 And that ultimately we should be focusing on the greatness of that child and that person who was killed.

01:39:55.780 And not the violence that occurred.

01:39:57.380 We don't want to create division by focusing on the crime itself.

01:40:00.620 And please respect my family at this time by focusing on the mourning victim and not on why this happened.

01:40:06.560 What actually took place.

01:40:07.820 Let's not focus on those details.

01:40:09.340 None of that is an accident.

01:40:10.520 That was a department created by the government.

01:40:13.140 They walked the entire, they, they stage managed the entire Trayvon Martin incident.

01:40:18.600 These people have been involved in a lot of different.

01:40:22.020 But they're targeting a specific group and that group is whites.

01:40:25.040 Yes.

01:40:25.260 And I just think it's bonkers that that could happen in our country and no one mentions it.

01:40:31.420 And, and it's just so sinister.

01:40:33.900 Again, if it was happening to Malaysians, I'd be like, come on, what are we doing? 0.98

01:40:38.180 Yeah.

01:40:38.420 And again, it's happening to the majority, the quickly disappearing majority in this country.

01:40:43.400 Yeah.

01:40:43.560 And again, I think it's, they're, they're given this blank check because ultimately whiteness is this inherent evil. 1.00

01:40:48.840 That it's, that any, that any, again, any disparity can only exist because white people did it to you and you're constantly a victim of it.

01:40:57.540 And so any violence you bring against them is allowed.

01:41:00.020 And this is what creates that anarcho-tyranny dynamic because especially the Democratic Party, but to some extent even the Republican Party, has created a blank check for certain groups inside our society to wield violence as they see fit.

01:41:12.700 And the police, you know, for instance, that police chief, she's not there to prevent the violence against that white people. 1.00

01:41:18.000 Of course not.

01:41:18.480 She's there to prevent you from preventing violence against that white couple. 1.00

01:41:22.160 That's the actual purpose she serves. 1.00

01:41:25.200 On whose behalf?

01:41:27.460 Well, again, I think it's not a mistake.

01:41:29.960 I think this is something.

01:41:30.500 It's definitely not a mistake.

01:41:31.660 It's everywhere.

01:41:32.340 And it's in every country.

01:41:33.540 It's in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK, US.

01:41:37.080 Every one of those countries is exactly the same policy or a species of it and exactly the same attitudes.

01:41:43.220 And all of them are enforced by force.

01:41:45.400 And I think it is that these ruling elites find that it generates a wedge inside their societies that allows them to maintain power.

01:41:53.680 It creates this disruptive effect that keeps effective communities from forming that would push back against totalitarian control.

01:42:02.040 It allows them to raid these people and take their wealth and transfer it to new constituents who are easier to control.

01:42:08.180 I think it serves both narrative and ideological interests, but also just raw power and financial interests as well.

01:42:16.620 Man, that's dark.

01:42:18.740 What are the signs of hope that you see in the United States?

01:42:21.360 I think there are many signs of hope that I actually see.

01:42:26.040 I know we talked about a lot of bad stuff here today, but I think there are several big ones.

01:42:30.540 First is that more and more people who describe themselves as conservative or right-wing care more about their families and care more about their communities than they care about ideology.

01:42:40.860 And that that is starting to sink in.

01:42:42.500 I think we're also seeing a big shift, especially on the right, when it comes to the idea of perpetual war and foreign policy, that we don't constantly need to be at war, that we don't constantly need to be the world's policemen.

01:42:54.180 We certainly don't need to need to be doing that on the behest of any foreign nation, that the purpose of the United States government and any of its institutions, including the military, should only be the well-being of our people.

01:43:06.620 I think we're also seeing a willingness to adjust and look at the economy.

01:43:10.640 It used to be that the right would never look at something like tariffs or any kind of economic policy that would violate the Bible of Milton Friedman.

01:43:19.600 But actually, when we see the results of it, they're harming our communities.

01:43:23.660 And more and more people are willing to say, no, conservatism is conserving my community, not some abstract commitment to a policy that is harming my neighbor.

01:43:31.480 And I see more and more young people looking at religion as a way forward, which to me is the most important thing.

01:43:39.080 You do see that.

01:43:40.000 Yeah.

01:43:40.480 I don't think it's everyone.

01:43:43.760 Well, it's never going to be.

01:43:45.940 No.

01:43:46.500 But those people who create intentional communities, religious communities, they're the people who are going to make it through the other side of this.

01:43:55.320 They're the people who are going to be passing down their values.

01:43:57.900 They're the people who are going to draw strength from a tradition and a transcendent truth that others don't have.

01:44:03.820 And so I see more and more young people yearning for that.

01:44:07.060 And I think that that is a huge spark of hope.

01:44:09.980 So you see people forming young people having grown up in this, not just people from subcultures, not just the Amish or the Orthodox or other highly committed religious communities.

01:44:21.920 But you see people who just sort of grew up in America deciding, I'm going to join an intentional religious community.

01:44:28.480 Yeah, I do.

01:44:29.220 And I see more people forming, you know, realizing they need to move near people who have shared values with them.

01:44:36.660 I know certain people, you know, living in the Ridge Runner community in Tennessee and other examples where they recognize that not only am I, you know, need to be more serious about my religion and forming these communities, it's no longer sufficient for me to talk about them abstractly online.

01:44:52.100 I need to actually physically live in a community with people who share these ideas.

01:44:56.840 Again, it's small amounts of people right now.

01:44:58.720 It's still forming.

01:45:00.080 It's still at its genesis.

01:45:01.220 But I think it is expanding, and I think it increasingly will be the successful societies in the United States.

01:45:07.160 Amazing.

01:45:08.000 Would you consider joining one?

01:45:09.760 Yeah, I think I would.

01:45:11.260 And one of the main reasons I have not done something like this is I have lived where I've lived for a very long time.

01:45:17.700 And I think that you have a certain duty when you have that history and you've already built that community to work to save your community first.

01:45:25.300 Eventually, there is probably a panic button where, okay, I've got to get my family out of here because things are too bad or too difficult.

01:45:33.080 Luckily, I live in a community that's nowhere near that issue.

01:45:37.700 And because I've lived there for so long, I would rather build that up and invest in that rather than shred that and try to build it somewhere else.

01:45:45.720 But for many people, they don't even have that already.

01:45:47.740 And so for them, the moving is the easy decision.

01:45:50.700 But what if you got a job in private equity in Woodside?

01:45:52.900 Would you go?

01:45:53.540 Well, the beauty now is that even if you have one of these jobs, it's all remote, right?

01:45:57.800 There's no reason for us to have to live like this anymore.

01:46:00.360 We don't have to cram ourselves into these horrific urban areas to pursue certain career options at this point.

01:46:07.640 That's one of the few upsides of the technological downside we've been talking about.

01:46:12.340 You can actually just puck up and move across the country and live somewhere else and work in a different field.

01:46:17.740 You don't have to be geographically locked into your particular industry.

01:46:21.400 Of people under 30, how many do you know who have like liberal, like circa 2020 liberal attitudes?

01:46:32.060 No, they're radicalizing in one direction or the other, right?

01:46:34.920 That's what we're seeing is the mass polarization.

01:46:37.380 Either they're getting very right-wing or very left-wing.

01:46:39.920 I know what right-wing looks like, and I approve in general, but what does left-wing look like?

01:46:48.020 You're seeing a lot more people deeply invest in kind of the trans or polyamorous relationships.

01:46:55.580 They completely throw off old social structures.

01:46:58.220 They detach from any form of religion that's going to try to tie them to any tradition.

01:47:04.760 You see them get economically radical.

01:47:07.100 Again, this is why Mom Donnie is more successful than he would be otherwise. 0.90

01:47:12.480 And you see them really getting aggressively attacking the idea of any kind of classic American or European connected identity.

01:47:20.620 That becomes a very passionate part of who they are.

01:47:24.140 Really?

01:47:24.900 So what is, so it's a South Asian identity?

01:47:28.360 Like what is the identity if it's not tied to a specific?

01:47:31.500 It's this really abstract progressivism.

01:47:33.760 It's this really, they'll pull out maybe tribal culture.

01:47:38.020 You know, they'll, you know, do some land acknowledgement or talk about the ancient peoples of some African tribe.

01:47:44.320 But ultimately, it really is this hyper-modern, progressive, completely derastinated existence where your identity is highly malleable.

01:47:52.860 It can be changed from day to day.

01:47:54.420 Maybe today I'm male, I'm female.

01:47:56.140 I'm married to you.

01:47:57.440 Now I've got three other girlfriends that we're all involved together.

01:48:01.100 Our children don't really belong to anybody.

01:48:03.540 You know, it's all the nightmare stuff that the right wing would do.

01:48:05.560 It's been tried so much.

01:48:07.260 Yeah.

01:48:07.800 That's a very old path, actually.

01:48:10.700 That's the Alistair Crowley path, who did not die happy, I will say.

01:48:13.460 Yeah.

01:48:14.720 It seems like if we're going to have violence, and unfortunately, I suspect that we might, we've gone so long with no violence, really 160 years, which is amazing for any society.

01:48:25.820 France can't say that.

01:48:26.860 UK can say that. 0.59

01:48:27.820 We can say that.

01:48:29.560 But that may change.

01:48:30.840 And if there is violence, it seems like it's going to come from that group to me.

01:48:34.800 Well, it will come from that group for a couple of reasons.

01:48:37.760 One, you know, up to this point, they basically had a free hand to do so, right?

01:48:42.320 What is Antifa except a group of state shock troops deployed against-

01:48:46.860 It's the youth wing of the Democratic Party, of course.

01:48:49.060 Yeah.

01:48:49.280 It's their brown shirts, right?

01:48:51.120 And so that's exactly what we see over and over again.

01:48:54.500 And it's only going to get worse because not only do these people feel morally justified, they also thought that they would never face any consequences.

01:49:02.320 They were right.

01:49:03.040 And they were right.

01:49:03.560 And so they, yeah, if violence is going to come from anywhere, it's going to come from the people who have a blank check to do it.

01:49:09.320 But how will you respond to that?

01:49:12.780 I mean, direct to violence against, you know, family or probably, I will end it immediately, of course.

01:49:17.440 Yeah.

01:49:17.700 That's our duty.

01:49:18.680 And that's, I think, intentionally why people are forming communities where they are moving to places where they know they can trust their neighbor to stand by them when a mob comes.

01:49:27.380 Do I live in an area where my sheriff is going to arrest me for stopping a mob from attacking my family?

01:49:34.340 Those are the decisions that people are making right now.

01:49:36.220 I live in Florida where a lot of people moved after COVID and in no small part because they wanted to live in a state where they were next to the people who would stand against government tyranny in one way or another when it came.

01:49:47.560 And that's just as true of violence.

01:49:49.140 You never stop violence just by yourself.

01:49:51.520 If that kind of thing comes, you're going to need a community to stand with you.

01:49:56.660 On that hopeful note, thank you.

01:49:59.460 Thank you.

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The Tucker Carlson Show - August 18, 2025

Auron MacIntyre： The American Empire Is Racing Towards Collapse. Here’s How to Prevent It.

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