Author Jeremy Carl explains why some people are scared to talk about anti-white racism.
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Summary
Tucker Carlson: If you were able to be airlifted directly or teleported directly from 1994 to 2024, you'd notice an awful lot of changes . The biggest change you'd probably notice about our public conversation is how white people were so openly attacked and denigrated . Author Jeremy Carl: Will we be the generation that finally wipes out the stain of racism from our national character?
Transcript
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Welcome to the Tucker Carlson podcast, where every story is an honest story and not one of
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them has been massaged or influenced or censored by a corporate gatekeeper. We've made a lot of
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these. You can find all of it and a lot of exclusive content at tuckercarlson.com. We
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hope you'll check that out. Here's today's episode. If somehow you were able to be airlifted directly
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or teleported directly from 1994 to 2024, you'd notice an awful lot of changes. Primary among
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them would be the internet. But the biggest change you'd probably notice about our public
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conversation is how white people were so openly attacked and denigrated. Yes, a racial group. So
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in 1994, you were about 30 years past the civil rights movement. And in 1994, the operating
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assumption of virtually everyone in the United States was the main lesson of the civil rights
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movement, of the letter from the Birmingham jail and the Edmund Pettus Bridge and all the different
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sacred moments that we grew up hearing about. The main lesson of those moments was it is immoral,
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in fact, unacceptable to attack people on the basis of their race. So then if you fast forwarded 30
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years to find the same country engaged in a public hate frenzy against people because of their race,
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you would find that bewildering. How did this happen? Of course, there would be the discrimination,
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the institutional racism of hurting people on the basis of their race in hiring, in admissions to
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schools, in federal contracting, in promotions, there would be all of that. But there would also be the
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public manifestation of it, of saying out loud, we just don't like you. You're not as good. You are
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morally defective because of your skin color. You say this about white people, people who founded the
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United States. You'd be shocked by that. And then to turn on the TV and see the president of the United
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States do the very same thing, you'd think maybe you'd been drinking ayahuasca. You'd see Joe Biden say
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things like this. History has thrust one more urgent task on us. Will we be the generation
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that finally wipes out the stain of racism from our national character? We've all seen the knee of
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injustice on the neck of black Americans. Racism, nativism, fear, demonization have long torn us
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apart. But a black parent, no matter how wealthy or how poor they are, has to teach their child when
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you're walking down the street, don't have a hoodie on when you go across the street. Domestic
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terrorism from white supremacists is the most lethal terrorist threat in the homeland. If I were your
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daughter, what advice would you give me the next time I am stopped by the police? If you're my daughter,
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you'd be a Caucasian girl and you wouldn't be pulled over. White supremacy is the most lethal threat to
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the United States. White people are the threat. They are evil and they are dangerous. That's not
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just a senile president making that one statement. That is the people in charge of the country
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reinforcing that statement and that theme every single day of the year, not just by their words,
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but with their deeds. What is this? Why does no one mention it's happening? Why does anyone who
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does mention it's happening get attacked as a white supremacist for complaining about racism?
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And maybe more important, where does it go? Is there any other ending to the story
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but hurting people physically? Lots of people. Could we have a resolution that doesn't look like Rwanda?
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Jeremy Carl is an author who's thought a lot about this. He's got a brand new book called The
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Unprotected Class, How Anti-White Racism is Tearing America Apart. He joins us now. Jeremy,
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thanks so much for coming on. Thanks so much for having me, Tucker. It may be an advantage or maybe
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disadvantage of being a little bit older that it's, this is like the one thing you never thought or I
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never thought you would see in America, which is our leaders openly attacking people on the basis of
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their race just 60 years after the civil rights movement that supposedly taught us the opposite
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lesson in the Civil Rights Act. So how did this happen, do you think? Well, it's an interesting
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question, right? And I think you just hit on a key point, which is 60 years. We're as far now from
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the Civil Rights Act as they were basically from the Wright brothers. So there's been a lot of time
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that's kind of got a lot of water under the bridge since that time. And a lot of things have happened.
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And I think it was begun with very sincere intentions. But I think rather quickly, certainly, you know,
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10, 20, 30 years down the line, it got really hijacked to the point that we went from trying to treat
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people equally to what has eventually amounted to reverse racism.
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Right. Or just, I guess I would just call it racism because it seems like the standard would
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remain the same no matter the race of the person being discriminated against. You can't attack people,
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you can't punish people for the color of their skin, for how they were born. So like that seems
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like a pretty easy principle to uphold. It's pretty straightforward.
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Well, I would agree with you, Tucker. But it's, you know, nonetheless, we're really seeing
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throughout, and this is what I really wrote the book about, throughout many different areas of
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endeavor, and whether that be when we're looking at how crime gets talked about, to what's going on
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in Hollywood, to the educational system, and monuments coming down, and everything you could
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imagine, kind of the white person is kind of the great enemy. It's the, it's the, um, the, the kind
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of, uh, the, the evil guy in 1984, the kind of two minutes of hate we have to have against him. Uh,
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the Emanuel Goldstein figure, uh, kind of is, is the, the white person in particularly the Democratic
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What's interesting though, is it typically when you see these moments of scapegoating,
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which are clearly, you know, kind of inherent to people, I mean, they pop up in every society at
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every time through history. Like there's something in people that wants to separate a small group and
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like blame all its problems in that group. But it's usually, it's the minority, of course,
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you know, the persecuted minority. Whites are still for, at least as of today, probably changed
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soon, of course, but they're still the majority in the country. So like, have you ever seen anything
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You know, I haven't, Tucker. It's, it's kind of amazing to watch because this is,
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whites are still a 58% majority. It's no longer a majority of the under 18, but of adults,
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it's still a solid majority. It's a super majority of our voters still in every presidential election,
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although just barely in the last presidential election. And yet they've become this figure
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of hate. And it's really been kind of fascinating and disturbing to watch and to kind of think about
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why that happened. And one of the things I suggest in my book is that really, ultimately,
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this is a legitimizing ideology for ultimately resource transfer and resource confiscation.
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And that takes the form of some of this reparations conversation or land back or some
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of these other things. And they sort of start out on the extreme left and everybody goes, oh, well,
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that's silly. That's never going to happen. And then all of a sudden, you know, it is happening
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and you're a racist if you think it's a bad idea. Yeah, I mean, of course, it's happened and it's
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still happening in other countries. You know, Rhodesia became Zimbabwe and the whites were killed
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and their land was taken and their money stolen. And it's happening in South Africa right now.
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Of course, we're not supposed to look at it, but it is happening, actually.
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Um, I wonder why people are, why the majority is putting up with it.
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Well, that's a good question, Tucker. And I, I can't even fully, I don't have a perfect answer
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for that myself. And ultimately, I, one of the main reasons I wrote this book is because I don't
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think the majority, I don't think anybody should be putting up with it regardless of race. I mean,
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we shouldn't have, we shouldn't be putting up with racial discrimination in our society in 2024.
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But I think, you know, kind of white people, they're almost, it's like a Stockholm syndrome
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almost where they're, they're like in a hostage mode in terms of some of the ways that they're
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thinking, where they, they sort of are in love with their captors. Um, and they're, they're not
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able to kind of accept what's going on. And, and particularly on the left, it's this sort of
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notion that, um, because we, of course, like every nation have had an imperfect past that white people
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have some hereditary blood guilt. And I think the balance of American history just shows that
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that's a really myopic and a childish way to look at, at our history and our country.
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Well, it's demonstrably absurd if America is so racist, if systemic racism is such a barrier,
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then why are nonwhite people moving here by the millions? So obviously that's silly,
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but it's a little weird to say that, you know, you hate whites, but you need to live in a country
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founded by whites whose systems are Anglo systems like that. I mean, maybe I'm being too logical
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here, but it doesn't make any sense. No, it doesn't. And I mean, it sort of,
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it points to some of the absurdity here. And you also touched that, of course, people from all sorts
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of different backgrounds are clamoring at the door. We're right now dealing with this, of course,
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with legal immigration. And even if you look at some of these groups, and again, something I discuss
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in the book, there are all sorts of nonwhite ethnicities in this country among immigrants and among
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citizens in which, particularly among Asian American groups, but not exclusively. I mean,
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if you were to even look at Nigerian Americans or particularly Igbo Americans, for example,
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they would have an average higher income than the average white American. And so this kind of notion
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that whites are sort of on the top is really a selective editing of any story, no matter how true,
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that belies that or any statistics that belie that. It's one of the reasons you actually see
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Asian Americans frequently eliminated from these comparison sets when they're talked about because
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it doesn't tell the story that the left wants to tell. Well, it's just a lie. I mean, the Labor
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Department collects these stats. And you could say, well, maybe they're fake stats. Tell me how they're
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fake. But they've been, this trend has been going on a long time. I don't know if native-born whites are
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in the top 10 for income, actually, groups, but they're not near the top of the top 10. That's for
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sure. I've seen the numbers. I just saw them. So that's, you're lying if you say that. So there's
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that. But again, I want to get back to the core question, which is why would anybody put up with
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this? If this were happening to people from Madagascar, I would be as against it as I am now.
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But it's particularly weird that the people whose ancestors founded the country are putting up with
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it. I hear all the time, young people say, well, I can't really get a job. I have no expectation
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working in a big company because I'm a white male. It's like, why would you accept that? Like,
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if you're 22, what did you do to deserve that? And what does it say about your country that it's
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doing it to you? Like, why do people put up with that for a second?
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I agree, Tucker. I mean, and I wrote this book because I didn't understand that either. And what
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I, the only thing I can come up with, they're not the only thing, but the leading kind of hypothesis I
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can have is that a lot of people have kind of been so brainwashed by a lot of the propaganda from the
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left that they're just simply not aware of some of the realities here. And so what I've tried to do
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in the book is just to detail the enormous number of ways throughout many, many different areas of
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endeavor right now, where whites are being discriminated against. And to say, hey, guys,
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we shouldn't be putting up with this. Why are we putting up with this? We certainly wouldn't put up
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with it if any other group were being discriminated against in this way. So why do we not have the
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self-respect to kind of stand up for ourselves?
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Well, I couldn't agree more. And it's not that we wouldn't be putting up with it if any other group
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was being discriminated against. It's that other group would not be putting up with it. And you
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see that. And there are groups who just won't put up with it. And I say that with admiration,
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because why would anyone put up with racism, especially since anti-racism being against racism
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So, I mean, how paradoxical that in a country where the one thing you can't be is racist,
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that anti-white racism is enshrined in law, custom, and culture, and no one mentions it.
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I agree. It's mysterious. And I think one of the encouraging things is when I started to write this
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book a couple years ago, and when I started even more thinking about writing this book a few years
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before that, a lot of this stuff felt very taboo to even mention, even though it's obviously,
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as you just noted, it's obviously self-evidently true, and therefore it shouldn't be taboo at all.
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And I think one of the encouraging things is that we're beginning to see people, and you've really
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been a stalwart on this, but there have been other folks in the media environment, folks like
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Matt Walsh and Charlie Kirk, and there have been politicians, guys like J.D. Vance,
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who are kind of now speaking up, and they aren't just saying like, hey, it's fine. You can just go
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discriminate against white people, and that's fine. We're not going to say anything, or we're going
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to be too cat, we're going to be too intimidated. I've really seen an improvement in the dialogue
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just in the time even I've been writing this book. But at the same time, there's still a long way to go
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before we really kind of reach a point where we can have a candid conversation about this stuff that
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is actually based on reality rather than a left-wing fantasy. I guess what bothers me a little bit is
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that the justification for hurting whites has always been effectively a species of the reparations
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argument. Like whites have hurt other people, therefore it's their turn in the barrel or something
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like that. You need to make up for something that your ancestors did, I guess. But that, I guess,
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kind of works, sort of, maybe if you're talking about the majority. But the second whites are no
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longer in the majority, and that's going to happen very, very soon, maybe already has happened. We don't
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know because we don't know the real population numbers because of illegal immigration, but we're
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right on the edge of the whites not being the majority. Like at that point, do whites get to say,
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well, now I want, you know, some advantage in college admissions. Now I want my kids to go to
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Harvard for free, and I want government contracts in a preferential way. Like what happens then? Or
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does the anti-white hate just get louder? Well, that's the concern. And I think one of the things,
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again, I talk about in the book is we are essentially moving, as you just alluded to, to what is effectively
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a post-white America. Now, how quickly we get that depends on whether Joe Biden ever decides that he's
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going to shut the border and whether the Republicans are ever actually going to do anything if he continues
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to refuse to. But we're headed in that direction. And so then the question becomes, when you look at the
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history of multi-ethnic countries where you have unequal resource distribution and whatever else, that is a
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recipe, historically, not in every case, but in many, many cases, for violence. And so that should be of great
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concern to us. And again, I'm not sort of, I didn't write this book with the notion that, hey, you know, we just are
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writing this for white people, and white people should be the only one caring about it. Every American who is
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interested in living in what is going to be a multi-ethnic country that gives hopefully equal rights to
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everybody, should be concerned about this issue. Because if we don't treat a very large group fairly,
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then there are going to be some people who just say, you know, I'm not going to put up with that.
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And who knows where that leads, but not anywhere good, I wouldn't think.
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Well, and you already see it at the margins. You know, you don't want people to be radicalized.
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You don't want people to have to be radicalized along racial lines, because they're irresolvable.
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Opinions change. Skin color doesn't. So if we have any kind of race conflict, it can go on for many
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generations, and has, of course. But I think about South Africa, which in 1994, when it was handed
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voluntarily to the ANC, had nuclear weapons. And now parts of the country don't have consistent
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electricity. So the ANC's totally destroyed the country. It's a black party. And yet they're still
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blaming whites, the small minority of South Africans who are whites, for all the problems.
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And so you're thinking, well, if that's the future here, like, that's very grim, I think.
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Oh, absolutely. And I'm not so dire. I don't think, fortunately, things are so dire here
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that we're likely to wind up in a South African situation-
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Where they can't even keep the power on. But I do worry that we may be Brazilianizing our society,
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where you essentially have a few people kind of at the very top, living with guards, kind of under
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a lot of security, and things are maybe kind of good for them. And everybody else is sort of,
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you know, in a much worse sort of situation. And you kind of have certain types of very polarizing
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racial politics beginning even to emerge in Brazil as well. So I think, you know, I'm not worried that
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we're going to turn into South Africa tomorrow because of that. But given America and given our
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history and traditions and the great beacon of freedom and opportunity that we've been for
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everybody, to even take a step in that direction is just something that we should do everything that
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Yeah. I mean, I should say about Brazil, you know, Brazil's had a pretty pyramid-shaped economic system
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for a long time. And I don't think that's a good thing. You want a middle class. But Brazil has not
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had- Brazil is a multiracial society, like way more than the United States. A lot of people from
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different ethnic groups, okay, who intermarry and always have for hundreds of years. They haven't had
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until pretty recently, like the last 10 years, hardcore American-style race politics. These have been
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economic arguments, which I think are fine to have because your economic system can be changed with
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one piece of legislation. Your race can never be changed. So I don't understand the difference
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ideologically between, just ideologically, leaving aside resources and history and all that stuff,
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but like the ideas of like the Barack Obama Democratic Party seem identical to the ideas
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of the ANC or Malema in South Africa. Like I don't, what, is there a difference that you see?
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Well, I don't think there is. I mean, okay, I mean, we're not yet at the kind of kill the
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boar chant level of overt racism in South Africa that they have, although we're kind of heading
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maybe in that direction. There was a book last year on Amazon. It was a bestseller. It was like
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Eliminate Whites. I mean, that was the name of the book written by some Indian guy. What?
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Yeah, it's crazy. And I think certainly there's a lot of concern that we should have about the
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situation that we're in right now. But I'm not necessarily of the view that it's going to be
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quite as bleak as it currently is in South Africa. But what I do see is that some of this rhetoric is
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just incredibly toxic from the Democrats, that the direction that they would like to go is really of
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a sort of racial caste system. And that what we're going to kind of do as a result of that
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is going to be something that would be very, very bleak for every American, but certainly for white
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Americans, most of all. And again, we've got to start calling them out on this. Because until,
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you know, if we were letting them get away with these sorts of lies of kind of police racially
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targeting African Americans and kind of, you know, America's history is nothing but violence and
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racism, then it's going to be very, very bleak in terms of what things are going to look like in
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the future of this country. And my last question, since I know you've thought about this more deeply
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than anyone, probably, do you see this accelerating? Or do you foresee, I'm saying prayers for this,
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a future? We're not like talking about race that much, because it's not that interesting. And we're
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talking about the things that unite us and the ways to make the country better. Like what it does seem
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like this election year may be a potentially a turning point or an acceleration. Which do you think?
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Well, I think that the left is definitely accelerating. I mean, as it becomes less and less true
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to speak of any sort of white systemic racism, the left is just amping up their conversation
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about that, you know, their rhetoric around that. At the same time, I think there is more resistance
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that I just touched on. And you and others have really been in some ways at the forefront of that,
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which I'm very thankful for. But I kind of feel like the best case that's realistic is that to use
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a kind of Cold War analogy, we move to what's called a mutually assured destruction. And that
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keeps us safe. So what the left has to understand is when they use this type of racial rhetoric that
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is scapegoating whites, that is blaming everything on whites, that is saying white people are kind of
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the cause of all problems or that are going on in this country, that they need to understand that
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there's going to be a very painful and direct political blowback to them for doing that.
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And that requires us to organize on our side to say, to actually arrange that type of blowback,
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to make them understand their cost of that type of racist rhetoric that they're using.
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And then if that happens, they may say, well, okay, you know what, maybe it's best that we kind of cool
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this off, that we don't use this type of rhetoric, that really what we want to do is sort of take race
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out of the public dialogue in this way. We're not going to scapegoat whites anymore because we
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understand that that creates a politically painful scenario for us as well. But to create that sort
00:23:26.720
of thing, which I think would ultimately lead to racial peace and would allow us to talk about
00:23:31.560
these things that, as you note, would be much more important and things that we should all be
00:23:36.840
caring about far beyond race, we need to be a credible deterrent to them. We need to show that
00:23:44.980
we're not going to put up with the sort of behavior that they've been engaging in.
00:23:50.960
That's why I wrote my book, The Unprotected Class. And I sort of suggest in the book
00:23:58.280
Man, I couldn't agree more. I remember watching the Republican, still the Republican
00:24:03.500
governor of New Hampshire, Chris Sununu, really kind of an awful person, but say that the problem
00:24:09.420
with New Hampshire was there are too many whites in it. I remember thinking, is anyone else hearing this?
00:24:12.780
You're attacking people who live there, whose ancestors have been there for 300 years? You're
00:24:17.300
attacking them because of their skin color? Really? He gets reelected by Republicans. And so
00:24:22.120
I hope your book increases the sanctions on people who use racist ideas for political gain,
00:24:29.740
Well, I agree. And I appreciate having the opportunity to go on and talk about it with
00:24:33.000
you and appreciate all the work that you've done to really highlight this issue over the years.
00:24:37.640
Yeah. I mean, I'm fine, by the way. You know what I mean? It's the principle that drives me crazy.
00:24:44.860
No, I'm great. I'm glad, Tucker, that you mentioned that because there's one of the rhetoric,
00:24:50.480
one of the things that they use to kind of try to shut us up is to say, oh, you know, it's just
00:24:54.520
whining. It's you're being, you must be a loser. You must have a terrible life if you're worrying
00:24:58.920
about that. No, I actually have a fantastic life personally. I have a loving family. I'm really happy,
00:25:05.520
you know, five kids. But I'm looking at the future of our country. Yeah. And I'm concerned
00:25:10.380
about the really concerned about the direction. And I'm concerned about my future for my kids and
00:25:14.900
not just for my kids, but for other kids of all different races in the US. I want them to grow up
00:25:19.640
in a country of opportunity and a land of opportunity for everybody, which was the country
00:25:24.020
that I really grew up in. But I think in many ways is becoming less true for everybody now if you
00:25:29.680
don't kind of check the right demographic boxes. And so that's why I wrote the book. And that's why I'm
00:25:34.740
speaking out. Amen. Yeah, you have your own water fountains. You've got the balcony seats in the
00:25:40.400
movie theater. Shut up and stop complaining, you whiner. It's like, what? It offends me as a
00:25:46.240
Christian. I'll say that. Anyway, thank you so much. Jeremy, good to see you. Thank you so much,
00:25:51.380
Tucker, for having me on. Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson podcast. If you liked it,
00:25:56.740
be sure to hit subscribe and leave a review. And remember, we only release some of our interviews
00:26:01.720
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