The Tucker Carlson Show - March 30, 2026


Breaking News： Israel Shuts Down Christ’s Resurrection Site. Bishop Strickland & Tucker Respond.

Topics
just war theory
Hosted by
Tucker Carlson
Mentioned
Jesus Christ Carrie Download Hallow Judas Iscariot Gamaliel Cardinal Pizzaballa Michelle Pfeiffer Bishop Strickland Taylor Sheridan Best Western Kurt Russell Good Success Holy Spirit Dosedaily.co Augustine Nazareth Kobanero Madison Lazarus Pilate and 4 more
Leaked Police Interrogation Footage of Netanyahu, and How He Cowers Behind War to Keep Power Dave Smith： Mossad, WWII Myths, FBI Cover-Ups, and Trump’s Critical Next Move in Iran

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 20 minutes

Words per minute

139.75

Word count

11,207

Sentence count

561

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

18

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

The Church of the Holy Sepulcher was closed by Israeli authorities on Palm Sunday. Why? Why would the government shut it down? And why would they refuse to allow the procession of St. Basil the Great?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
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00:00:30 bishop strickland thank you so much for doing this what do you make of the closure of the
00:00:40 church of the holy sepulcher by israeli authorities on palm sunday well really tucker um i probably
00:00:48 some things have developed even since the last thing i saw but it looked like they were deciding
00:00:53 to open it after all or whatever um to me really tucker this comes down to a consequence of
00:01:01 the the evil that we see that we're witnessing um and i think we need to pay attention to it
00:01:08 in that context as we already discussed the the large-scale destruction of civilian life
00:01:17 is never morally justifiable by any nation, by any entity, for any reason. It's just not.
00:01:25 And to me, the closure of the Holy Sepulchre, the holy side for us, there's so many in the holy
00:01:32 land, but the closure of that and not allowing the procession of Palm Sunday is a tragic
00:01:41 consequence of just how far off the mark really the world is at this point in so many ways and
00:01:48 what's going on there we must speak calmly lovingly clearly that no we can't allow this and
00:01:59 the closure to me is just one of many tragic consequences where um the this has to be addressed
00:02:10 and we've got to keep going back to that principle
00:02:14 that the large-scale destruction of civilian life
00:02:18 can never be morally justified.
00:02:22 Amen.
00:02:23 And I'm glad to hear at least one religious leader
00:02:26 in the United States say that so clearly.
00:02:28 I think that any believing Christian would agree with that
00:02:31 as a foundational part of the faith,
00:02:35 but you're hearing just the opposite.
00:02:37 And I want to ask about that in just a minute,
00:02:39 But you don't seem like you believe that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was closed for, quote, safety reasons.
00:02:49 Well, I really don't know, Tucker.
00:02:53 And maybe for some, making those decisions, that's the reason.
00:02:57 But why would it be judged to be a place that is unsafe because of this chaos that surrounds it?
00:03:07 So, like I said, I think it's a consequence of everything we're seeing, which is immoral and is destructive to humanity in very significant ways.
00:03:22 you're a man of history and we all need to be people of history and if we look at history
00:03:29 these days will be marked in history as a very devastating time similar to things that we can
00:03:38 look back in the last 100 years 200 2000 years that when these kind of moral
00:03:47 um aberrations begin to just take over we need to speak up and i really don't know um the motivation
00:03:58 for the closure of the holy sepulcher i mean i can surmise a lot of things
00:04:04 they the the possible reopening or partial that i've heard about i don't know if even that's
00:04:11 accurate that's part of i know what you're fighting and what we're all fighting is
00:04:15 so much misinformation so many false messages it's really hard to know what what is yes and
00:04:22 that's why i think it's so important and i will be a broken record repeating we can never justify
00:04:29 the large-scale destruction and devastation of civilian life um as morally justifiable we can't
00:04:38 do that and i think we have to keep going back to that home base with all the chaos that we're
00:04:45 all dealing with i i think one of the things that we can say is that christianity targeted or not
00:04:54 the core tense of christianity whether on purpose or not is often in the crosshairs we know that
00:05:01 i believe talking to people in jerusalem this morning that there were no synagogues completely
00:05:06 closed um and we know that the church the holy sepulchre was not closed during the last two
00:05:12 world wars. We know that the idea was to have a Catholic leader and three others in there for a
00:05:19 live stream service, and that was banned. So it's hard to understand how this was done for safety
00:05:26 reasons. And moreover, I wasn't aware that the government, the secular government of Israel,
00:05:31 owned the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, or by the way, the Dome of the Rock, or any other
00:05:38 religious building owned by someone else in East Jerusalem? I mean, where does this authority come
00:05:45 from that you can just close someone else's church? Well, I don't think it is true authority.
00:05:53 And it's basically totalitarian saying, we've got the power, we've got the bombs,
00:06:03 We can do what we want. And that is, again, as we look at history and we look at this moment, that is about as scary as it gets to have that attitude.
00:06:17 And sadly, we're seeing that attitude.
00:06:20 We are the ones with the power, so we are the ones calling the shots.
00:06:25 Forget what is moral, forget what is true, forget what has historic precedent.
00:06:33 I mean, I'm sure both of us, for several years now, I get tired of the word unprecedented
00:06:41 because we hear it all the time.
00:06:43 But we're living in unprecedented times.
00:06:46 For all the more reason, we need to go back to foundational pillars of life and faith.
00:06:54 Of course, as a Catholic bishop, Jesus Christ is that pillar that we keep returning to,
00:07:01 listening to him, looking at the model of his life, which flies in the face of anything violent.
00:07:08 And that doesn't mean that he was not addressing the terrible issues of his stuff.
00:07:16 I mean, you mentioned, you used the phrase in the crosshairs, cross is where Jesus Christ
00:07:23 died.
00:07:25 And ironically, Tucker, and I'm sure it isn't lost on you, that in my experience as a bishop
00:07:33 and a priest. Holy Week is always a time where things are in the crosshairs, and it's different
00:07:41 issues and different situations historically, but there's something about Holy Week that calls us
00:07:48 back to who is Jesus Christ? Do we believe him or not? And if we do, we must morally be guided
00:07:57 by his light. We must. It suggests that there's something else going on here,
00:08:05 perhaps influenced by the spiritual war ongoing around us, that Christians would be the target, 0.52
00:08:11 since it is, at its core, a religion that opposes violence against innocence and the destruction
00:08:17 of innocence. And so here, I mean, a totalitarian regime, at least as you think of it in your mind,
00:08:24 or I do, targets violence against its enemies, the threats.
00:08:30 There's nothing less threatening than four Christian clergymen standing in an empty church 1.00
00:08:36 live-streaming the sacraments, but they went after those guys.
00:08:41 So what does that tell you of all the enemies?
00:08:45 Why are they in a threat?
00:08:46 Really, Tucker, what it tells me is that truth is threatening.
00:08:54 And if you think about the drama of Holy Week, which we in the Catholic faith are in the midst of, when Jesus Christ is before Pilate, and that is historic reality for whatever your faith perspective, this Jesus of Nazareth stood before Pilate, the leader of the Roman Empire that was stationed there in Jerusalem.
00:09:19 And Pilate says, what is truth?
00:09:22 And the mob that was there, Pilate himself, everyone was threatened by this Jesus who we know, we believe, is truth incarnate.
00:09:36 He is the truth.
00:09:37 And as he's standing there, really, Tucker, I think that is what's threatening.
00:09:43 To those who are not living by the truth and humbly seeking the truth, which we all have to do, I don't claim to have it all figured out, but I look to Christ because he is the truth.
00:09:54 For those who are promoting all of these things, closure of holy sites and attack of innocent people, they are definitely threatened by the truth, not by some propaganda, but by the real truth.
00:10:11 they find it threatening and to me that really what Cardinal Pizzaballa and the others were
00:10:17 going to try to do just a live stream very small scale really that was threatening because it's
00:10:25 about proclaiming truth that really begins to cause people of good hearts whether they have
00:10:34 faith or not, it causes the human instinct to say, wait a minute, what's going on? When they hear
00:10:42 truth, that is disruptive, not in a violent way, but just because truth cuts through it all.
00:10:51 That's what they're afraid of. I truly believe that. So we're still in the middle of Lent,
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00:13:03 somebody else does. One of the truths that seems the most threatening is that violence is not the
00:13:09 answer. And so the... I'm sorry? Well, the power of the world isn't the answer. That is what
00:13:21 threatens them, and that's what they don't want to get into the hearts and minds of just everyday
00:13:29 people. They don't want that word to get out there that war isn't the answer. Sometimes it,
00:13:36 I mean, the church, the Catholic church has a doctrine of justifiable war, which is pretty 0.99
00:13:43 strict and pretty clear, and probably very few wars have qualified. And there's serious questions
00:13:52 about this war. I think it's pretty much unqualified. But that's what we have to keep
00:13:58 looking at. Look at the principles. And really, Tucker, what I would encourage your viewers and
00:14:04 all of us, I mean, I'm just one of the viewers in many situations. I'm a bishop who doesn't even
00:14:10 have a diocese anymore, but I do have an apostolic call that I take very seriously. And I say to
00:14:16 myself, to you, Tucker, as a good man seeking truth, and all of us who are in this, we need
00:14:23 to take a breath, we need to calm our hearts, and we need to simply seek the truth. I believe,
00:14:31 and I feel compelled to proclaim to the world, we know the truth. The truth sets us free. It's
00:14:39 Jesus Christ. And certainly that was the threat that the Romans and the Jewish leaders wanted to 0.97
00:14:47 get rid of. That's historic reality. They plotted to rid themselves of this truth problem. And in
00:14:56 many ways, we see the same thing repeated. I mean, it gets masked in a lot of ways, but
00:15:02 And I pray daily for the leaders of the world, for every nation, for leaders who have the power and the responsibility in this moment to go back to those basic principles.
00:15:16 They need to take a deep breath and ask themselves, is this true, what I'm promoting, what I'm doing?
00:15:25 Is it about the truth that sets us free?
00:15:28 And when we ignore the truth, that is when we are the most bound by violence and evil.
00:15:36 And we're seeing it played out in our lifetime right in these moments on the TV screen, on
00:15:43 our phone screens, on the airwaves.
00:15:46 We're seeing ignoring truth has consequences, and it comes down to each of us individually.
00:15:53 when we ignored the truth that I am a sinful man who needs to repent and I need to seek the life
00:16:00 that is Jesus Christ when we try to to hide that to ignore it to eliminate it it doesn't go away
00:16:08 it will not be eliminated any more than killing Jesus Christ on a cross in the first century
00:16:16 eliminated the truth that he is truth will not be eliminated but a lot of innocence can be harmed
00:16:24 when we think we can avoid the truth and do it our way and do it with our power when we go down
00:16:33 that path it's destructive in so many ways even to those individuals that are doing it but the
00:16:40 tragedy is there's so many innocents that get lost in it that we must speak against innocent lives
00:16:49 being just you the the term is collateral damage but that in itself says we have to be very careful
00:17:00 about allowing our hearts to hearten that we just use terminology for innocents dying oh they're
00:17:07 just collateral damage. May I ask you to go back for a second as a Protestant myself who's often
00:17:15 heard the term just war theory, which I think derives from Augustine, but I could be wrong.
00:17:22 Can you summarize that for people who aren't familiar with what it is just in broad terms?
00:17:28 What's a justified war? Well, there are four basic points that I can't claim that I can get
00:17:35 all of them as you know it's it's pretty simple most of the time the truth is pretty simple
00:17:41 but it has to be the just for theory is based on if war which should be avoided if at all possible
00:17:49 if it is to be justified it has to be proportionate it has to be now it can't be preemptive it it
00:17:58 It really, Tucker, goes back in a lot of ways to the right to self-defense, the right to self-defense of one person, the right to self-defense of a nation.
00:18:11 That is really the core of the just war theory.
00:18:15 It has to be a real threat, not a perceived threat, not a future threat, but a real threat.
00:18:21 It has to be in proportion.
00:18:23 i mean you know putting it on the the just person to person context i mean somebody slaps you
00:18:31 you don't shoot them that is not proportional yes it has to avoid harming um innocents that are
00:18:41 really have nothing to do with whatever the conflict is in any direct way um and and so
00:18:47 those basic points are what you have to look at. It has to be, it has to have a reasonable
00:18:55 expectation of success, that this will accomplish the protection of innocence that it should be
00:19:04 about. Those points are what we have to keep looking at. And like I said,
00:19:10 there probably aren't many wars in human history that would qualify as meeting all the criteria.
00:19:20 Some meet more than others. But I don't know that this present conflict, they're not even
00:19:25 calling it a war. And I think that tells us something. But this present conflict, I don't
00:19:31 know that it qualifies on any of those points. Because yes, there was some threat there, but
00:19:37 But was it justifiable to immediately address that threat, which seemed to be a future threat that may have been very real?
00:19:49 I don't claim to know all of that, but I think the leaders are challenged to really look more deeply at that.
00:19:57 And certainly the idea of protecting innocence, honestly, I mean, and again, I haven't been in any war rooms or heard the real discussion, but it seems and what we're seeing, it's like we can expect and we can plan for the collateral damage, which should be always stated as we can plan for innocence to die because of this action.
00:20:27 Because that's what collateral damage really is talking about.
00:20:32 So that, I think, is a reasonable, probably not the most scholarly exposition of the just war theory.
00:20:42 But those are the basic points.
00:20:44 And again, if people say, oh, it gets too complicated, just think about defending yourself, defending your home, defending your family.
00:20:52 You can't go out and, you know, you have a neighbor that's talking crazy and go and put a bomb in their front yard. I mean, that's not proportionate. That is not reasonable. And it has to be something that is a reasonable.
00:21:08 And I think one of the greatest points of the Just War Theory, is it likely to be successful? 0.70
00:21:18 Is it likely to have an outcome that brings more peace, more protection, not just to the individuals that you're specifically responsible for, but brings it to the world?
00:21:30 And so I think that we've got to honestly assess what is happening and acknowledge that no nation seems to be really, and I love the United States.
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00:24:20 worth it so this morning the president of the united states whom i campaigned for and defended
00:24:29 daily for 11 years not attacking him but he issued a statement um threatening to destroy
00:24:37 the civilian infrastructure of iran including the desalinization plants and energy grid
00:24:41 of iran and that seems to be a threat against innocence i don't know any other way to read it
00:24:48 how would you assess that?
00:24:52 Is that consistent with a just war?
00:24:56 No.
00:24:57 And as you said, Tucker,
00:24:58 we have to acknowledge that it is,
00:25:03 to directly do that is wrong, is immoral.
00:25:08 Going back to that basic principle I started with,
00:25:12 And anytime civilian life is devastated, it's not morally, it's not done morally.
00:25:22 It's not something we can just turn a blind eye and say, well, we got to do this.
00:25:28 The large scale destruction of civilian life is never morally justified.
00:25:34 Like I said, if I'm a broken record making that point, I believe I need to be because the more I think about that, the more I pray about that, the more I look at what's happening, it says, let's put a stop to this.
00:25:50 Let's pull back from this.
00:25:53 And I understand from what I see in the news that there are efforts of talking about some sort of solutions.
00:26:02 But the talk seems to always have much less focus and much less power behind it than the bombs and the destructive forces.
00:26:15 I guess that is, you know, by human nature, maybe that's somewhat natural that when you've got the power, it's hard to restrain yourself from using it.
00:26:26 We see that played out in so many ways.
00:26:28 But that is where the moral values have to kick in for the individual man or the individual nation and the leader that is a man or a group of men and women that are leading a nation.
00:26:44 They need to constantly go back to those principles and asking themselves, is this justifiable?
00:26:52 Is this something that is moral to do?
00:26:54 And if it's not moral, then we should just put up a big, bright red stop sign and say, we're not going to do this because it is morally questionable, much less clearly immoral.
00:27:09 And when we go down the path of saying, well, we've got to do some immoral things, I mean, it's like the end justifies the means.
00:27:17 I mean, some basic principles of philosophical, logical thought that have guided nations and individuals through history.
00:27:27 You know, if we get on a path where we say the end justifies the means, then the means can become so immoral that it's just devastating for not just the individuals or the nations involved, but for all of humanity.
00:27:45 We've got to be very cautious about going down that path.
00:27:50 And I'm afraid that many of the things that we've seen have crossed that line of just
00:27:57 saying, we believe, yeah, this is evil.
00:28:01 Okay, it's evil, but we've got to do it for the good end.
00:28:05 That is very dangerous territory.
00:28:09 Also common, I think.
00:28:11 I mean, people, as you said, who have power tend to misuse it, an often noted phenomenon,
00:28:17 because it's true. What's different, at least in my lifetime, is seeing self-described Christian 0.56
00:28:24 leaders not only defend violence, but attack anyone who questions its use, and then use the
00:28:32 Bible to justify it. So I guess what I'm saying is one of the battles here is over what Christianity
00:28:38 is as a faith. And that seems to me a very important battle, certainly a conversation.
00:28:45 So what you're seeing some Christian leaders do is say, well, there's violence throughout the Bible
00:28:50 and God justifies it in some cases, defends it through what the Christians call the Old Testament
00:28:57 from beginning to end, there's violence against innocence. So it's therefore okay. What is your
00:29:03 response to that? Well, Tucker, quite simply, probably not surprising, my response is Jesus
00:29:13 Christ. If we claim, which I do, and I do my best, I mean, I'm a sinner, I mess up all the time.
00:29:21 We do individually, if we're smart enough to be humble enough to acknowledge that.
00:29:25 We as nations and we as individuals, we get off the mark, we mess up, but we can always
00:29:31 repent of that and seek again to follow the truth that is Christ. And that's the distinction that I
00:29:39 would make. If people are calling themselves Christians, we are of the body of Christ that
00:29:45 is his church. And we have to look to him. Yes, in the Old Testament, there are many examples of
00:29:54 destructive power, but that is not the world that we live in. We believe that Jesus Christ
00:30:01 has redeemed everything. And one of the key points of Jesus Christ, and St. Paul says it
00:30:10 very well, we are neither Greek nor Roman. We are not individual nations. We are Christian.
00:30:18 and to use Christianity as a weapon against one part of his body to another part of his body,
00:30:27 that's a misuse of the message of Jesus Christ. If we look to him, I mean, he died on the cross
00:30:35 because he embraced that freely as a man and as the son of God, but he was willing to do that.
00:30:45 He was willing to personally receive the greatest violence of destroying his body and his human life for the sake of the peace that he brings.
00:30:59 And if we look to Jesus Christ, we can't justify the violence that we're seeing.
00:31:07 You can hearken back to the Old Testament.
00:31:09 But if you believe Jesus Christ is the new covenant, that he, I mean, he came out of that world of the Old Testament.
00:31:18 He is of Hebrew origin, and we should embrace that absolutely.
00:31:25 That is historical reality.
00:31:27 But he came to bring a new covenant and to bring a redemption of all of that.
00:31:33 And just one example of what Christ, if we look to Christ, he's often saying, yes, we used to do this, but this is the new way that through the Father sending me to you is being revealed.
00:31:49 It used to be an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
00:31:53 That cannot be that way with us.
00:31:55 He says to his disciples, and we have to really listen to that.
00:32:00 We may not like listening to Christ himself, but that is what we're called to, especially if we call ourselves Christian.
00:32:12 That is probably, as you point out, Tucker, one of the greatest issues that we have to face now, because there are many non-Christians in the world. 1.00
00:32:21 And for Christianity to be really co-opted and hijacked in the way that we're seeing is destructive to the message of truth that is Jesus Christ.
00:32:36 Because I can imagine people saying, well, if this is what Christianity is really all about, I've considered it, but I'm not going to even look at Christianity if that's what it's about.
00:32:49 It's not what it's about.
00:32:50 But when voices are saying, we can, again, going back to that basic idea of we can destroy civilians violently and in drastic ways and say that it's moral because we're claiming to be Christian, that's nonsensical.
00:33:12 And it's as offensive to Christ himself as anything could be.
00:33:19 He is a man of peace.
00:33:21 And that, it doesn't mean just let yourself be run over.
00:33:27 But real peace is about respecting our lives and the lives of others
00:33:34 and always seeking without violence to embrace the truth that sets us free.
00:33:42 So I guess what I would say to Christians that are claiming sort of Old Testament justification, 0.99
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00:35:00 It does seem like this is an effort to co-opt Christianity and change the world's understanding 0.95
00:35:08 of Jesus, and it seems like Holy Week maybe is particularly hard for people who want to
00:35:14 do that because the whole message of Holy Week is the opposite.
00:35:17 I mean, you're the theologian, but I think Jesus is coming into Jerusalem at a time when
00:35:21 it's occupied by foreign pagan authorities that are oppressing the people of Jerusalem,
00:35:26 and a lot of people watching assumed Jesus was going to liberate the city in some using force.
00:35:32 He was the king, but he doesn't come in on a war horse.
00:35:36 He comes in on a donkey and then submits to being tortured to death
00:35:40 because the victory is larger than a military victory.
00:35:44 It's a final victory.
00:35:45 It's a spiritual victory.
00:35:47 And that seems like the message as a non-theologian Protestant, 0.72
00:35:52 that seems like a very clear message.
00:35:54 But you tell me, is that the message?
00:35:56 Tucker, you are spot on. And that's why I mentioned earlier in our conversation,
00:36:04 Holy Week is a week of drama. And it's a week of waking up and realizing the real message of
00:36:11 Jesus Christ. I mean, the whole passion story of Christ is the elements there. I mean, we have
00:36:20 Judas Iscariot, who, why did he betray Christ? I mean, I don't claim to be able to read his mind
00:36:28 or his heart, but the indications are he betrayed Christ because he wanted the kind of military
00:36:38 leader that many wanted. Christ's triumphant entry into Jerusalem is, it's a very interesting
00:36:49 scene that we need to constantly go back to and look at in terms of what's really going on.
00:36:58 Just before Christ, as recorded in scripture, just before Christ enters triumphantly into
00:37:06 Jerusalem, the verses are talking about the authorities seeking and plotting to assassinate
00:37:14 Lazarus, the one he
00:37:16 had raised from the dead.
00:37:19 Which is
00:37:20 really one of the most, it's
00:37:22 described in John, and it's one of the most amazing
00:37:25 passages in the entire
00:37:26 Bible. Jesus has just raised this man
00:37:28 from the dead four days after his death.
00:37:31 One of the amazing
00:37:32 things he did. The guy's alive
00:37:34 and the religious authorities
00:37:36 want to murder him?
00:37:38 It's like, sorry, excuse me. 0.98
00:37:41 It's amazing.
00:37:42 It really is.
00:37:43 And the drama is right there.
00:37:46 We have to see it and recognize the way it continues to unfold in our lives.
00:37:51 I mean, I don't want to label anyone Judas Iscariot, but we need to ask ourselves, every one of us, and I include myself, we have to be very careful and ask, are we beginning to move in a direction that Judas Iscariot would have approved?
00:38:09 when we are saying we want hail jesus uh hail to the son of david but we want to shape the son of
00:38:19 david according to our agenda that is where it gets very dangerous and it culminates in
00:38:25 in destruction for judas iscariot and apparent i mean real destruction for christ because he is 0.89
00:38:33 truth, because he is God's divine son, what the world can throw at him can't destroy him because
00:38:40 he's beyond creation. He is the Lord of creation, but he allows it to happen out of love for all of
00:38:49 us. I mean, it's just so rich with images that can be beneficial to all of us, but for us to
00:38:59 hear Christ in this time, in this moment in our history, for the world, for this nation,
00:39:05 for the Catholic Church for Christians, to hear Christ say to those who are literally
00:39:12 in the moment, nailing him to a cross, killing him, Father, forgive them.
00:39:18 They know not what they do.
00:39:20 To have that kind of mercy and compassion in your heart is, and we've seen some saints
00:39:27 that have echoed it. St. Stephen, the first martyr, echoed his Lord in saying that. But that
00:39:34 that is, again, going back to where's the threat? That is a very threatening sentiment when you
00:39:42 think, when we think, when the world thinks that the powers of the world can ultimately prevail,
00:39:49 to hear the man being destroyed by the world saying, Father, forgive them. They know not what
00:39:57 they do. It reminds us that we've got to retune our hearts and our minds to the message of Jesus
00:40:05 Christ and to face everything we're facing. It's like Holy Week being played out again
00:40:15 writ large in our time the the the hidden messages and the the plottings and the confusing
00:40:23 i mean here we have things being hailed as wonderful and then underneath it on the the
00:40:30 underbelly is a darkness of plotting the the destruction of innocence and the destruction
00:40:37 of lives that really have nothing to do with this so once again i go back to that idea of
00:40:45 we have to i mean the gauge has to be the large-scale destruction of civilian life
00:40:53 can never be morally justified and you know with christ i mean it was one man but in terms of
00:41:02 reality in terms of the universe trying to kill jesus christ son of god jesus of nazareth killing
00:41:11 him. I mean, they were successful in killing him. He died on the cross. But that is large-scale
00:41:17 destruction of innocent life, of civilian life. And that is the principle we just have to keep 0.95
00:41:25 going back to, to keep really looking at everything through that lens and urging the leaders of Israel,
00:41:35 the leaders of the United States, the leaders of Europe, the leaders of the world to come together
00:41:41 and to listen to the words of Jesus Christ, even those who don't believe him, because they are true
00:41:50 words, they resonate in hearts if people will just listen and really open their hearts to what he's
00:41:58 saying. I mean, certainly, I believe the world will embrace Jesus Christ before it ends. That
00:42:06 is prophecy and that is logic when the world will embrace truth not everyone we're all left with our
00:42:14 free will and that is i mean the free will of the individual and writ large the free will of nations
00:42:22 um and we see that in old testament god doesn't necessarily stop the free will of nations or
00:42:30 individuals from doing something that God knows is contrary to truth. And the consequence of
00:42:37 ignoring the truth, really, I mean, we can see it as God's punishment, but really it goes deeper
00:42:43 than that. It's simply in conflict with reality. And when we oppose the truth, we're opposing
00:42:53 reality. And the consequences will follow, maybe not immediately, but the consequences will catch
00:43:02 up with us when we ignore truth. And Tucker, I know that the people that you interview as your
00:43:09 life, your career, your good work of doing your best to share truth, you're constantly talking
00:43:15 to people who have themselves lived through the consequences and hopefully awakened to the
00:43:22 reality i've got to follow truth when we ignore truth and it i mean it it's in countless ways
00:43:29 in our society today but when we ignore the truth we get on a path that brings us harm
00:43:38 and sadly can the more influence we have the more that path involves other innocent people
00:43:46 the more we can bring destruction down on the heads of the most innocent when we decide
00:43:54 I'm going to consciously deviate from the truth because I've decided I know better.
00:44:03 That should be a huge caution, ultimately stoplight for all of us. Be very careful about
00:44:12 going down that path because we've seen it in history and we see it in our time when the
00:44:18 individual says i'm somehow above or outside the truth then they may prevail for a moment
00:44:28 but it will always come to destruction there was a controversy six weeks or so ago around a woman 0.72
00:44:37 called Carrie Prejean Bowler, who was a member of the president's Religious Liberty Task Force.
00:44:44 She was expelled from it. Really, from my reading, for two reasons. One,
00:44:50 she called attention to the deaths of innocents in Gaza and made the point that their lives were
00:44:56 as valuable as anyone else's. And two, she refused the basic tenets of Zionism, political Zionism,
00:45:04 and said that she didn't have to sign up for that as a Christian,
00:45:09 and she was expelled for that.
00:45:10 And there were a number of religious leaders, Christian leaders,
00:45:13 who approved of her expulsion and, in fact, who made it possible.
00:45:17 You weighed in on this.
00:45:20 Can you tell us why you did that and what you said?
00:45:27 Yeah, thank you, Tucker.
00:45:28 um well really again you know i'm a simple guy and it comes down to basic simple truth
00:45:37 ultimately truth is simple yes it's deep it's rich it's hard to fathom but it's not complicated
00:45:44 in the way that our world is so often complicated as you said i think carrie was removed because
00:45:52 they didn't like the truth she was speaking the truth about gaza which is verboten by many
00:45:58 the innocents that have devastatingly died there is just horrible it truly is a holocaust of our 0.98
00:46:06 time but she was they didn't like that truth and they didn't like the truth of her pushing back
00:46:14 against the agenda that is saying this political zionism is something that christians need to
00:46:21 embrace no it's not and the catholic church is very clear from everything that i've seen i had
00:46:27 a conversation with Carrie before I put out my statement, and I had the conversation because I
00:46:36 was hearing things, and I just wanted to, really, my intention with reaching out to Carrie was just
00:46:42 to be a pastor and to offer her some support and some consolation. In the midst of that conversation,
00:46:50 she basically challenged me and asked me, Bishop, if what you're saying you really believe
00:46:57 your message. My message to her, if I really believed it, was I willing to publicly speak it?
00:47:05 And I told her I would pray about it and I would consider it. But even as I told her that I would
00:47:13 pray about it, I knew in my heart that I was, as we say sometimes, Christians say, I was convicted.
00:47:22 I knew that if I was going to be the man I want to be, if I was going to be the Christian that I want to be, I had to speak up and to not attack anyone, but simply say, you know, and what I tried to do in a rather several more words than this, but basically was say,
00:47:44 Carrie was removed from that committee because she was speaking truth that the powers that be didn't want to be spoken. 1.00
00:47:57 And because of that, I felt the need to speak out for her.
00:48:05 You know, I don't think Carrie claims to be a sinless, some sort of perfect woman. 1.00
00:48:10 but she was right in what she was speaking uh you know people can say i mean very often and i know
00:48:18 you hear this all the time um you know people will when they don't like the truth that's being said
00:48:25 they'll very often go after the tone and it's human to for the tone to get a little elevated
00:48:33 when we're speaking truth that especially when it's being opposed i know i can personally confess
00:48:40 that sometimes as that happens we can when we're facing pushback against something we know deeply
00:48:50 in our hearts to be the truth we can hopefully not get violent but we can get very animated in
00:48:58 how we're doing that but and i think that that's what people really pretty cleverly will say oh
00:49:05 well it was the tone well yeah sometimes the tone but sometimes it may be appropriate when truth is
00:49:13 being ignored we need to get attention sometimes and again looking to christ is the model um i mean
00:49:20 he said, love your enemy, but he also was willing to call a spade a spade. And when the leaders that
00:49:32 he was speaking with were clearly not in the line of truth, he was willing to get pretty animated
00:49:40 in the way he spoke to them and said things like, you brood of vipers. I mean, I think that was
00:49:46 actually john the baptist but christ said those kinds of things to the leaders because that's
00:49:55 what truths demand sometimes we should not return to violence in order to stand for the truth but
00:50:02 we should do it with vigor with strength and to me that's where where carrie was rejected primarily
00:50:11 because they didn't want her to speak that truth.
00:50:15 And they, you know, and you've seen it.
00:50:18 Well, I think you're an example, Tucker.
00:50:21 I mean, you were a man speaking truth
00:50:24 and they tried to silence you.
00:50:26 Carrie was speaking truth.
00:50:28 They tried to silence her
00:50:29 and it ultimately backfires.
00:50:31 When it is truth,
00:50:34 when someone or a group is speaking truth,
00:50:38 trying to oppose that, it does backfire. I think of Gamaliel and the Acts of the Apostles,
00:50:47 a Jewish leader who said, y'all need to be careful. If this is of God, you'll find yourself
00:50:54 finding God. If it's not of God, then it'll go away on its own. What Gamaliel is saying,
00:51:01 truth lasts truth prevails truth continues because of the essence of what it is it is truth
00:51:10 and we see that over and over again when truth is being proclaimed and whatever powers of the world
00:51:19 trying to squelch that truth try to silence it so often i mean jesus christ what is the whole
00:51:27 drama of Jesus Christ. The world, the powers that were in the first century tried to eliminate him
00:51:35 and where are we now in the 21st century? He is still that voice of truth that can and should
00:51:45 guide us. So Carrie was removed as one voice echoing the truth that is Jesus Christ. She was
00:51:54 removed because of that. And look what's happened. Her voice has grown. I had no idea who Carrie
00:52:01 preaching Bowler was before she got removed. And then I ended up making a statement about her.
00:52:09 That is a beautiful example of what we all need to remember for ourselves and our personal journey
00:52:16 against sin and death. And in the global journey, we need to remember if it's the truth, it will
00:52:23 come out, and it will prevail. So we better do our best to stay with the truth. I love the image
00:52:32 of the plumb line of truth that comes from Old Testament prophets, to stay with the truth. I
00:52:39 waver, I weaken, I'm a sinner, but I do my best to return to that plumb line of truth. And that's
00:52:47 what we need to do as individuals and as nations. We need to constantly be willing to challenge
00:52:55 ourselves. Am I, in whatever way, avoiding or trying to obfuscate the truth? And to the degree
00:53:03 that I'm doing that, I'm sinning, I repent, I ask forgiveness, and I get back to the truth.
00:53:09 what kind of response did you get to the statement that you wrote about carrie
00:53:18 i'd have to say overwhelming i mean i've been on x even when it was back when it was twitter
00:53:26 um and i've had some things that i've said that have gotten significant response um and you know
00:53:34 I don't even know what you call the numbers that you see, but whatever, the biggest number there
00:53:40 is close to a million at this point of people. And sometimes those numbers don't all necessarily
00:53:47 mean that people are in agreement, but the vast majority of people have said, thank you for being
00:53:54 a bishop, a successor of the apostles that was willing to speak to this. And, you know, Tucker
00:54:01 over and over again. And I can imagine, I mean, you're in a large, you have a big voice in today's
00:54:08 world. And I know you know that. And I know you do your best to take that responsibly, which we
00:54:13 have to. I'm the first to be surprised to have a million acknowledgements of what I've said,
00:54:23 for the most part, very positive. So the response has been tremendous. And it's, I mean, the words,
00:54:30 I believe the words that I've posted, I believe they came from prayer, they came from real
00:54:36 consideration of the truth that I believe in.
00:54:39 But it wasn't my words that people are really responding to.
00:54:44 It's truth.
00:54:46 People are hungry.
00:54:47 They are starving.
00:54:49 There is a worldwide famine for the truth.
00:54:55 Thankfully, it's there.
00:54:56 We can find it, but we have to fight for it sometimes.
00:55:00 And that's what I saw in the response is people are grateful when a voice and, you know, when Carrie and I spoke, you know, God has blessed me in tremendous ways.
00:55:13 And really, Tucker, I mean, we've never met, but I see you.
00:55:18 Our story is very similar.
00:55:22 They tried to cancel you.
00:55:24 I mean, back in the culture when people speaking truth were getting canceled.
00:55:29 And what has happened?
00:55:30 your voice has grown, and I think it should, thankfully. I mean, I know you're not the
00:55:35 perfect man, but you are a man seeking truth. That's how I understand Tucker Carlson.
00:55:41 And because of that, they fired you and they tried to eliminate your voice, and that voice
00:55:48 has only grown. The same thing for me. I'm a bishop removed from his diocese, and my voice
00:55:55 has grown. I mean, I still am the kid from East Texas, but my voice of doing my best to be
00:56:04 faithful to the truth and to be willing, and that's, I think, where both of us can stand
00:56:11 together. We've been willing to speak the truth when it wasn't popular, when it was sometimes
00:56:19 threatening to be further consequences if we stay with that voice of speaking the truth.
00:56:27 But I think both of us, in different ways, I can't speak for you, but I can speak for myself,
00:56:34 I have to do what I've done. I can't knuckle under and say, okay, just quit speaking the truth. I
00:56:42 was told to quit it. Stop it. Quit speaking the truth. You are told as well. And I'm sure behind
00:56:48 the scenes you could share lots of stories of people saying oh tucker don't you know calm down
00:56:54 don't do this get back off but we can't when it's the truth and you know it deep in your heart
00:57:01 that is is what christ was able to do in a beautifully peaceful way he endured everything
00:57:10 the world could throw it in and you know in many ways i haven't had anything thrown at me
00:57:16 but I've been willing to speak the truth when it wasn't popular and when it basically got me
00:57:24 kicked out of the club but I'm still a bishop I'm still a successor of the apostles and so
00:57:31 it's essential that I continue to speak not my truth I mean you know that's where some it gets
00:57:39 crazy people speak of oh well that's your truth and that's my truth there's truth and we all have
00:57:45 the obligation to seek it, to be willing. And I've said this many times, and I say it again.
00:57:52 Anytime I speak something that I'm claiming to be the truth, if people can show me that this is not
00:57:58 the truth, I want to hear that. I don't want to ever be in a position where people are saying,
00:58:07 oh, well, he's got a big voice, so I won't tell him he's wrong on that. I want to hear if I'm
00:58:12 wrong. And I have been. I can be, for sure. I'm a man, weak and sinful and easily confused and
00:58:21 easily diverted from the truth, but I keep going back to trying to do my best to proclaim it.
00:58:28 That's what we're all called to do. And I'd say Carrie right there with us as a woman,
00:58:34 a mother and a wife and a woman with a voice and once you have a voice you have an obligation to
00:58:43 speak the truth with it you said you're on acts you're clearly paying attention to what's happening
00:58:50 around the world it's very easy to become discouraged jesus is under fire the the the
00:58:58 church broadly is under fire. Truth is obviously a target, maybe the main target. So it's
00:59:07 discouraging. Do you see God moving as a counterbalance to that? Do you see God moving more
00:59:14 as evil becomes more obvious?
00:59:18 Tucker, thank you for asking that question because I think absolutely I see goodness
00:59:25 and beauty and truth changing hearts and moving people in all kinds of ways that's been one of
00:59:34 my blessings i i'm basically basically i'm an itinerant bishop now who travels all over the
00:59:40 place and speaks in different settings and meets people across this nation and really around the
00:59:46 world. And I have seen that goodness and those hearts seeking the truth. And of course, I believe
00:59:56 that God is, it's still his world. It's still his church. And he isn't absent from any of this.
01:00:06 Free will allows us to destroy ourselves if we make that foolish choice. But God is always
01:00:14 offering the opportunity to each of us individually and to each of us in whatever group,
01:00:20 whatever definition of a group of humanity. For us, we're all brothers and sisters. We're all
01:00:28 the children of God. But I believe, absolutely answering your question, that God is working
01:00:36 in hearts. God is working through all of this. I mean, look at all the evil that's been exposed.
01:00:42 we hate it we're horrified but it needs it's like a wound that needs to be cleansed a new a wound
01:00:52 that needs to be opened up and the putrefied flesh needs to be cleansed that's we're in a time of
01:01:00 cleansing of purification God is allowing the the truth that has been hidden for so long so much
01:01:07 corruption it just it does get overwhelming and i've put out messages to encourage people
01:01:14 don't despair it's so easy to despair and we see it i know both of us see it too often especially
01:01:22 young people lives ending sometimes intentionally because they're just despair of this dark world 1.00
01:01:30 But we can never despair. We should be people of hope and acknowledge the evil that's there,
01:01:40 but believe that God is with us. Jesus Christ prevails as truth prevails. And I guess that's
01:01:48 because I know many of the people that probably listen to you are not people of faith. But again,
01:01:54 I would go back to simply truth prevails when it's the truth and we know I believe that Jesus
01:02:00 Christ is truth incarnate truth walk this earth and we believe in the Catholic faith he remains
01:02:07 here through the sacraments through the life of of baptized people in goodness living in the world
01:02:14 but truth prevails and when we are willing to challenge ourselves to always go back to the truth
01:02:23 that will lead us nowhere but to god and and so god is working through all of this
01:02:31 and there's so much goodness out there the things that have been hidden literally for centuries
01:02:37 that are coming to light i'm what comes to mind for me is is a an apparition of our lady
01:02:44 called Our Lady of Good Success, that is in Ecuador, Quito, Ecuador.
01:02:54 It happened shortly after Our Lady of Guadalupe.
01:02:59 Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared in 1531 there in Tepeyac, outside Mexico City.
01:03:06 The image of Our Lady of Guadalupe still is revered there by Catholics and others there.
01:03:13 of that miraculous appearance. This apparition happened in the 1570s, I believe, shortly after
01:03:20 Our Lady of Guadalupe. And what's interesting is the apparition, it's to a nun, Our Lady
01:03:28 speaks to a nun, and this has been approved as private revelation, but it is accepted as authentic
01:03:38 by the church um but basically the apparition is mary says to this uh nun mother mariana that
01:03:49 for the 20th and 21st century this will come to light and will help people navigate a world
01:03:59 and a church deeply affected by the chaos of not following the truth i mean that's what it comes
01:04:07 down to. We believe the church will prevail. The gates of hell will not prevail against the
01:04:16 Catholic church. That is our faith. We believe what Christ says in the gospel, and we believe
01:04:21 it applies to this church. But that doesn't mean that we human beings, and the church has gone
01:04:27 through every kind of storm that humanity can come up with, but we believe the church will not
01:04:34 be destroyed, so we can't despair. But what's interesting to me is that this apparition,
01:04:42 it's a sign of the goodness, a sign of the hope, a sign of God still with us. One of the things that
01:04:50 as a bishop, as a lifelong Catholic, one of the great realities that I think is always helpful to
01:04:58 me is to remember God is timeless. That's hard for us to grasp. We can't really grasp it. How can
01:05:05 God be outside time? But he is. God is eternal. And so the things unfolding, we would say,
01:05:13 well, this was 400 years ago, and now it's happening now, and how does this work?
01:05:18 For God, there is no time. It's simply truth, goodness, and beauty always flowing from the
01:05:25 heart of the Trinity, God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So keeping that perspective always reminds
01:05:31 us, reminds me to be careful about presuming things about history because God's outside all 0.92
01:05:40 of that. I mean, history is a reality of the creation that God has given us, which is precious
01:05:48 and is good. As God says in Genesis, he saw that it was good. But the evil and the bad can come
01:05:55 when we who are created in God's image and likeness begin to ignore truth. That is constantly
01:06:03 what it comes down to. When I sin, I'm ignoring truth. I mean, we may not say, oh, I'm going to go
01:06:10 ignore some truth today. But if we trace it back logically, what I'm doing when I sin
01:06:16 insignificant or the just small ways, sometimes it's literally telling a lie, ignoring the truth,
01:06:25 pretending that this is the way things are, or this is what I've done. But when we ignore truth
01:06:32 on the personal level, on the national level, in the midst of history, when we ignore truth,
01:06:39 we are on a destructive path. So we're always challenged to go back to the truth. And in this
01:06:46 conversation once again i repeat the destruction the wanton destruction of innocence of civilians
01:06:56 is never morally justified that's the anchor of truth that's the pillar of truth that we have to
01:07:04 keep returning to when we get caught up in the confusing and chaotic realities that we're all
01:07:11 facing. We have to go back to the truth and humbly acknowledge, Lord, I'm wondered in significant or
01:07:18 maybe just in basic ways, but the more we allow ourselves to put blindfolds on and ignore the
01:07:26 truth, and I think that's a lot of what's happening right now. It's like, you know, the political
01:07:33 entity that is called Israel is getting a free pass for facing the truth for whatever reasons,
01:07:40 for political agendas or some kind of co-opted religious idea, but when we ignore the truth
01:07:47 that atrocities have been committed against civilians, against innocents, then when we
01:07:54 won't speak of that, like Gaza, then we're on a dark path and it becomes something, it's sort of
01:08:03 like the club of complicity where we say, well, we'll all ignore that truth, won't we? And we
01:08:10 move forward. And too much of that happens in today's world. You wonder why. I mean, there are,
01:08:18 you know, a lot is written about this. There's a lot of speculation about it. Why would people
01:08:23 intentionally lie in the United States about what everyone can see about the atrocities you just
01:08:30 mentioned? Why would our political leaders do that? Why would so many of our religious leaders
01:08:35 do the same. And there are all these theories, well, they're being paid off or... Those are not
01:08:41 adequate explanations from my perspective. It does feel like, and there are instances of this,
01:08:47 Paul alludes to this in Galatians, that it's almost like there's a spell, there's a supernatural
01:08:52 quality where people can't see things. They sincerely can't see things. Their vision is
01:08:58 clouded. Do you think that that phenomenon exists now? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Evil is real.
01:09:07 The Catholic Church sees evil personified in Satan and his demons. Christ has, I mean,
01:09:15 Satan has no power, really. But we, individual human beings and any group of human beings,
01:09:24 when we give into ignoring the truth, we really are giving into the power of evil. And like you're
01:09:33 alluding to, Tucker, I mean, that's why, thankfully, God clearly tells us through His Son and in other
01:09:43 passages, even in the Old Testament, we are not to judge each other. We are not the judges. We are to
01:09:50 make judgments about what is true, but we're not to judge the individual person. And I think that
01:09:57 that's where we have to always remember, because, you know, the atrocities that happen, and that
01:10:04 doesn't mean what we just say, well, you know, out of respect for this person, I need to allow
01:10:09 this to happen or allow myself to be attacked. That is not what we're talking about. But we do
01:10:17 have to always acknowledge when it comes down to judging the person, we should simply not do it
01:10:23 and acknowledge that maybe there is evil. And I truly believe that the delusion of evil has
01:10:34 many in its grasp in the world today. We all have the obligation to set ourselves free from that,
01:10:44 to see the light and to make the choice to turn from it.
01:10:49 But I know that it can become very difficult, seemingly impossible.
01:10:54 And I think that really, as we talk about all of this, Tucker,
01:11:01 I believe, again, it comes down to basic human choices.
01:11:08 The world leader that is deciding this is justified
01:11:13 because I have decided this, this, and this, it comes down to, and again, I think of us as
01:11:21 individual sinners. When we sin, we've simply decided, I know better. In this, you know, we
01:11:30 explain it away. We make rationalizations, but at the heart of it is, yes, this is what the world
01:11:39 says is true but i know better i've figured it out i know better and i think that that's where
01:11:46 you know the atrocities in gaza they are they are actively working to hide those and to
01:11:57 to squelch any voice that dares to speak up about innocence lives being destroyed because it
01:12:05 threatens their I know better attitude. It threatens that truth that they're trying to
01:12:13 create. We can all try to create our own truth, but it doesn't exist really. And that is what we
01:12:20 have to always be humble enough to acknowledge. And we have to pray that world leaders will be
01:12:28 people whose hearts are open because they've got the power to do drastically devastatingly
01:12:37 destructive things like we've witnessed in Gaza what we're witnessing in Lebanon um I mean very 1.00
01:12:44 little is spoken about some of these things because the powers that be don't want that truth
01:12:51 spoken because it threatens their false scenario and so it really is as basic as that um but i
01:13:02 think there are forces uh worldly and supernatural of evil that i mean just like when you know when
01:13:13 evil tries to cancel a voice of truth and our culture certainly in the supernatural realm
01:13:22 satan and his minions are trying to do the same thing i mean the saint michael prayer that we
01:13:28 offer as catholics is rooted in acknowledging that basic reality and not seeing a demon around
01:13:35 every corner but acknowledging that evil is real evil has its power when we give it power and that's
01:13:43 why we have to prayerfully turn to the truth. I urge everyone to do that. And if you aren't a
01:13:50 believer to at least, I mean, hopefully somewhat being sane is to embrace the truth. I mean,
01:13:59 to a definition of insanity is to say, well, I'm going to ignore what's true and just go into my
01:14:06 fantasy world. Sometimes that happens. But if we are people who are rational, then rationality
01:14:14 means based in the truth. And we all have an obligation to find the truth, to speak the truth,
01:14:21 and to live the truth. My final question is about persecution, which you've alluded to,
01:14:29 and you've said, oh, Jesus was murdered for telling the truth. That was the main threat
01:14:35 he posed, the fact that he was the embodiment of truth, and that that principle stands and that
01:14:41 people who, it's not the liars who are punished, it's people who tell the truth. So if we accept
01:14:45 that we're clearly in a new kind of world where trends are accelerating, you would have to think
01:14:53 that persecution will intensify specifically of Christians. And I think it is. I think it's
01:15:00 what we're watching. Do you believe that? And if you do, how should Christians respond 0.55
01:15:07 to persecution? Well, Tucker, I do believe that. I mean, it's very clear. I believe that
01:15:16 faith, really, any stance for truth, the real truth, is being persecuted.
01:15:30 Because the powers of chaos, the powers of that false message, are growing and gaining influence.
01:15:41 What is our response as Christians?
01:15:45 Well, you know, I guess it sounds pretty simplistic, but we stay with the truth.
01:15:52 We don't compromise.
01:15:54 We don't become violent in the face of violence.
01:15:57 we don't embrace hatred i mean i think that you know it it probably
01:16:04 is one of the most powerful things we can do is seek to truly love our neighbor
01:16:13 and certainly i mean christ tells us love god with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as
01:16:22 yourself, the great commandment. But I think that we need to put that into practice by not giving
01:16:30 in to the hate, no matter how much we are persecuted, no matter how much hatred is thrown
01:16:38 at us. And we have great examples in our Catholic faith in the saints of the ages, so many of the
01:16:46 saints. And Christ himself says, if they hate you, remember they hated me first. What is persecution
01:16:53 about? We're persecuted when they hate what we're doing, they hate who we are, they hate what we're
01:17:00 saying. And so we're in good company with Christ himself. How did Christ respond? He didn't waver
01:17:09 from the truth, but he didn't violently fight back either. That is, I think, the basic reaction
01:17:19 we should have. We should trust in the power of the truth. Yes, we can be eliminated. We can be
01:17:29 assassinated in this world and it happens but the truth continues to prevail and if
01:17:40 as christ died in service to the truth he was the truth and he died for the truth
01:17:46 um if it comes to that we shouldn't seek that our lives are valuable but if it comes to that
01:17:56 then we who believe in the truth should, you know, be the martyrs, be willing.
01:18:04 If that's what it takes to stand for the truth that I sacrificed my life in this world,
01:18:11 it begins to remind us that life is not limited to this world.
01:18:17 We believe in everlasting life.
01:18:19 The salvation of souls is what the church, the Catholic church exists for.
01:18:24 It may not always look like that through history and in our time, because too many voices seem to be too worried about this world.
01:18:32 But ultimately, to be alive is to have eternal life with God.
01:18:39 And so sacrificing this earthly life, if it comes to that, and we should, I've always loved the example of St. Thomas More.
01:18:48 He was a great lawyer, he was a great mind, and he did everything he could to keep from losing his life in this world.
01:18:59 But ultimately, he knew that if he had to sacrifice his life in this world, he could look to eternal life with God in heaven.
01:19:10 And he says that to his own daughter, to we shall merrily meet in heaven.
01:19:15 that has to be our attitude as well not wantonly and easily allowing our lives to be destroyed
01:19:24 that is not respectful of the treasure of our life that god has given us we should desire to
01:19:30 be here as long as god gives us breath but when that ends and we if we we lose that life because
01:19:40 we've stood for the truth, then we're in good company. So the Christian's response to persecution
01:19:48 should ultimately to be willing and to be strengthened and to strengthen each other
01:19:54 to stand with the truth, come what may. Amen. Bishop Strickland, thank you very much for
01:20:02 taking this time. That was great. Thank you, Tucker. God bless you. God bless you.
01:20:10 Thank you.