The Tucker Carlson Show - Cheryl Hines： Stories From “Curb Your Enthusiasm” and Sticking by RFK on His Way to the White House

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00:00:30.000 Cheryl Hines, thank you for coming all the way out here.

00:00:33.860 We were talking at breakfast.

00:00:36.040 Your life, the trajectory is like pretty amazing.

00:00:40.300 You are very far from where you started.

00:00:42.500 That is true.

00:00:43.640 Where did you start?

00:00:44.780 I started in Florida, in Orlando, Florida.

00:00:49.080 You know, I grew up in Orlando and Tallahassee.

00:00:52.820 Um, and then one day I drove my Toyota Tercel across the country to Los Angeles.

00:01:00.900 By yourself?

00:01:02.700 No.

00:01:04.040 I was dating a guy.

00:01:06.780 And I said, you know, I'm moving to LA.

00:01:10.000 And when it came time to move, he was very sad.

00:01:13.400 And I, and he said, can I ride with you?

00:01:16.440 And I said, please don't.

00:01:18.100 And he said, no, please, please.

00:01:20.020 I just want to get out of, I want to see the country.

00:01:22.080 I've never seen the country.

00:01:23.020 And so we broke up and then we drove across the country together.

00:01:27.160 Well, that's awkward.

00:01:28.260 It was very awkward.

00:01:29.540 Why did you move to LA?

00:01:51.920 Why did I move to LA?

00:01:52.920 Yeah.

00:01:53.420 Because I knew I was going to move to, because I always wanted to be an actress.

00:01:56.340 And I knew it was going to be New York or LA, but I knew two people in LA.

00:02:03.900 One guy from my high school and another guy who was a family friend, um, one of my brother's

00:02:10.480 best friends.

00:02:11.320 So I knew two people.

00:02:12.440 So I thought, okay, then that makes more sense.

00:02:14.600 LA.

00:02:15.280 Were they like at CIA?

00:02:16.900 Were they like powerful agents?

00:02:18.320 Those two people?

00:02:20.980 No.

00:02:22.000 Um, no, no, not at all.

00:02:24.140 Well, actually, um, so my, one of my best friends, Paul Beckett, he had, he, we ended

00:02:31.940 high school together and he moved out there and he was a professional, um, background actor.

00:02:38.760 What's a background actor?

00:02:40.040 Like an extra.

00:02:41.180 Is that what they call him?

00:02:42.300 Background actor?

00:02:43.080 Yes.

00:02:44.480 Yes.

00:02:44.900 What is that life like?

00:02:47.080 He loved it because it was, it was, you know, day to day, you get a project, but you don't

00:02:54.920 have to prepare much.

00:02:57.260 You just show up.

00:02:58.600 Lines to memorize.

00:02:59.640 No lines to memorize.

00:03:01.080 You know what the hardest thing about doing background work, have you ever done background

00:03:04.620 work?

00:03:05.760 No, I've been in the background in a lot of events, but I've never been paid for it.

00:03:09.420 But it's harder than it seems because, you know, if you're, if they're shooting a party

00:03:14.800 scene and your background, you have to stand behind the main actors and act like you're

00:03:21.800 talking, but you can never say anything.

00:03:24.480 So it's a lot of.

00:03:27.840 Or you can't actually speak out loud.

00:03:29.520 No, you can't speak out loud, but you just, you just, uh, you act like you're talking and

00:03:35.020 you make eye contact with the person that you're talking to and then you take turns mouthing

00:03:39.900 words, but try not to look crazy doing it.

00:03:43.020 That sounds really hard.

00:03:44.200 Actually.

00:03:44.680 It's hard.

00:03:46.200 I found it to be hard.

00:03:47.640 Oh, you did it.

00:03:48.840 Oh yeah.

00:03:49.140 Because you have to do it as an actor too, because sometimes, you know, you're shooting

00:03:53.060 something in the, in that somebody else's coverage.

00:03:55.680 And so they ask you not to actually say words out loud while they're doing their dialogue.

00:04:01.860 So how did.

00:04:02.680 It's even like clapping.

00:04:03.400 Usually when you see people clapping, they're not actually making noise.

00:04:09.940 Seriously.

00:04:10.520 They put that in later.

00:04:11.460 Yeah.

00:04:12.300 Do they have like hand muffs to keep it from.

00:04:14.360 No, you're just a professional and you know, not to.

00:04:16.980 Not to touch.

00:04:17.820 Not to touch.

00:04:19.340 So how did you go?

00:04:20.840 So you show up not knowing anybody except one extra, went to your high school and then

00:04:25.040 you wind up succeeding.

00:04:26.520 How hard is that?

00:04:28.320 It was hard.

00:04:29.640 Yeah.

00:04:30.500 It was hard.

00:04:31.420 Um, I, you know, I got a bartending job, which actually was also hard.

00:04:38.480 You wouldn't.

00:04:39.260 Yeah.

00:04:39.420 It's a hard job.

00:04:40.200 It's a hard job.

00:04:41.320 And in LA, it was hard to get a job as a bartender or as a waitress because everybody's

00:04:47.500 doing that because everybody is trying to, you know, get a job as an actor or writer.

00:04:52.540 So even to get those jobs are hard in LA.

00:04:57.200 But, um, but I've managed to get a job in this hotel in downtown LA.

00:05:02.060 It was the intercontinental.

00:05:04.120 I think they've changed it since then, but so that was good.

00:05:07.900 I did that.

00:05:08.640 And then it just, it took a year for me to work in that, in that hotel, in that bar to

00:05:17.120 just sort of get used to LA.

00:05:19.820 And at that time you would send out your headshot and resume to all of the agents in town and

00:05:27.080 hope that somebody would be interested in just from looking at your picture, be interested

00:05:30.780 in meeting with you.

00:05:33.260 And I didn't do it.

00:05:35.820 I wasn't ready for the rejection because I thought, what if I send out a picture and resume to every

00:05:45.680 agent in this town and none of them want me?

00:05:48.640 I wasn't ready.

00:05:49.680 I didn't have a plan.

00:05:51.480 What would be the plan?

00:05:53.320 So until I was ready with that, that form of rejection, I couldn't bring myself to do it.

00:06:01.260 How did you get, how do you prepare for that kind of rejection?

00:06:03.920 Uh, a lot of self pep talks, you know, when you're, I would just say, okay, what's going

00:06:11.540 to happen?

00:06:13.300 This is probably going to happen.

00:06:15.200 You're probably not one person is going to respond.

00:06:18.800 And who, who are you going to be?

00:06:21.500 Is it going to change you if nobody responds?

00:06:26.200 And for the first year of my life there, I thought, yeah, it'll change me.

00:06:31.380 It'll break me.

00:06:32.300 It'll, this is the only thing I've ever wanted to do.

00:06:37.180 So, but, but after I was there for a while, I, I realized, okay, my self-worth doesn't

00:06:43.760 depend on if somebody looks at my picture and decides they want to, um, represent me

00:06:49.120 or not.

00:06:49.720 But I finally got to that place where I realized, okay, life is going to go on.

00:06:54.820 I'm going to be the same person.

00:06:56.380 I'm still going to be an actress.

00:06:57.800 I'll just have to do it a different way.

00:07:00.680 And this was before you'd sent a single headshot to a single agent.

00:07:04.160 That's pretty self-aware.

00:07:07.320 Well, uh, I guess I just didn't want to, uh, I didn't want to, even though it was the only

00:07:17.520 thing I wanted to do, it's the only thing I've ever wanted to accomplish.

00:07:21.920 And I thought, well, is my life going to be over at 25?

00:07:28.100 If I can't, am I going to let them decide if I'm successful or not?

00:07:34.080 These agents.

00:07:36.520 So, yeah, I had to, I had to get to that place.

00:07:41.640 So then how did you get in?

00:07:44.520 Well, then I sent my, I sent them all out and I did get a response.

00:07:48.320 And let's just say it wasn't one of the big agencies.

00:07:56.860 But was it a legitimate agency?

00:07:58.960 Uh, I'll say yes.

00:08:04.420 There are so many agencies in Los Angeles.

00:08:06.640 Oh, I know.

00:08:07.080 And really there are a handful that are, I mean, there are a lot that are legitimate,

00:08:15.720 but there are really only a handful that are powerful.

00:08:20.120 Yes.

00:08:20.720 It wasn't one of the powerful ones.

00:08:22.480 As a matter of fact, I was, I was, I wasn't getting any auditions.

00:08:26.560 They never sent me out on one audition, but, um, remember the Tanya Harding and, um, Nancy

00:08:32.940 Kerrigan.

00:08:33.480 Yes.

00:08:33.820 Very well.

00:08:34.700 And Jeff Galooly.

00:08:35.860 Yes.

00:08:36.060 And Jeff Galooly.

00:08:37.080 And so there was a, um, you can, you used to be able to see the, the breakdowns for what

00:08:44.460 they were casting.

00:08:45.660 They would come out on something.

00:08:47.100 So I would read the breakdowns to see what people were casting for.

00:08:50.080 And at the time people were telling me I looked like Nancy Kerrigan.

00:08:54.380 Yeah.

00:08:55.020 So I thought, okay, well, maybe I should, there was a TV movie for this, for Tanya Hardy and

00:09:01.980 Nancy Kerrigan.

00:09:02.580 So I thought I should at least go in.

00:09:05.220 And so I knew my agent was not submitting me or if they did, nobody's opening that.

00:09:14.240 Or I thought they probably weren't.

00:09:17.500 So I, I put my headshot and resume in.

00:09:21.940 I put a post-it on my picture that said, uh, you should see her for Nancy exclamation point.

00:09:31.820 I didn't sign it because I didn't want anyone to think that I was, uh, doing anything underhanded.

00:09:39.500 And then I, for the return address, I put my agent's address and I got called in.

00:09:45.760 Wait, you pitched yourself on behalf of your agent?

00:09:48.880 That's correct.

00:09:49.860 Did your agent get a cut of the fee?

00:09:51.240 Well, I didn't book it, but my agent, but my agent called.

00:09:56.440 It was like, guess what?

00:09:58.600 I've got an audition for you.

00:10:00.720 I was like, uh-huh.

00:10:01.800 About Nancy Kerrigan?

00:10:02.920 Mm-hmm.

00:10:03.580 Actually, but I did have a really good audition and I may have been called back because it,

00:10:09.320 there was a lot of talk about ice skating.

00:10:12.420 Did I know how to ice skate?

00:10:14.080 And growing up in Tallahassee, probably a pretty good ice skater.

00:10:16.260 You didn't play hockey from a young age.

00:10:17.720 Yeah, I'm a great ice skater.

00:10:19.740 And I said, um, well, you know, I know, of course I know how to ice skate.

00:10:26.560 Mm-hmm.

00:10:27.780 And they were like, oh, okay.

00:10:29.880 I think I, I think I got called back because when I got called back, I do remember there

00:10:36.540 were four girls that looked a lot like, uh, Tanya Harding and four girls that looked like

00:10:44.420 a lot like Nancy Kerrigan.

00:10:46.260 And I was just sitting in this room, just looking around like, wow, this is weird.

00:10:52.560 I think you'd rather be on the Nancy Kerrigan side.

00:10:54.780 I guess.

00:10:55.780 Mm-hmm.

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00:14:53.600 So what was the first actual part that you got?

00:15:00.500 Well, that's when I was living in Orlando.

00:15:03.920 It was for Swamp Thing, the TV show, inspired by the movie, Swamp Thing.

00:15:12.280 I missed the whole Swamp Thing genre.

00:15:15.580 Yeah, it's too bad.

00:15:17.180 Was it a straight-to-video at Enterprise, or what was it?

00:15:21.160 What, Swamp Thing?

00:15:22.240 Yeah.

00:15:22.820 The movie?

00:15:23.680 Yeah.

00:15:24.160 No, it was a hit movie.

00:15:25.880 Actually?

00:15:26.460 Yes.

00:15:28.380 Yes.

00:15:29.000 Wow, I'm embarrassed.

00:15:30.600 You should be.

00:15:31.400 Sorry, I was in boarding school, I think.

00:15:33.820 Yeah.

00:15:34.280 No movies.

00:15:34.700 You guys weren't allowed to watch that.

00:15:36.380 And then the TV show, I was an evil scientist.

00:15:42.700 And in the show, I am holding a gun.

00:15:52.400 I'm like about to shoot another scientist.

00:15:56.380 And I hear a beeping sound because earlier in the episode, I had pulled the plug on my stepfather's life support machine.

00:16:08.580 Yeah.

00:16:08.940 And now I'm hearing a beeping sound, and it's driving me crazy.

00:16:13.840 And then I drop the gun, I clutch my heart, and I die.

00:16:20.160 And I said to the director, I said, before we shot it, I said, just so I'm clear, what exactly am I dying of?

00:16:29.800 I mean, I know, you know, we're talking about Telltale Heart, where the beeping is driving you crazy, and can anybody else hear it?

00:16:36.980 I said, all of that.

00:16:37.760 I said, but what is the thing that's actually killing me?

00:16:41.120 And he said, Cheryl, we don't have time for this.

00:16:43.100 You just need to drop the gun.

00:16:46.760 And then the gun handler, who, you know, is somebody on set that's there for gun safety and shows you how to handle the gun.

00:16:53.240 He was like, please don't drop the gun.

00:16:55.980 He said, if you could, just can you lay it on the couch on your way down to the floor?

00:17:00.100 I was like, oh, okay.

00:17:02.080 So I had to, he said, the director was like, just clutch your heart.

00:17:06.240 It's, I said, so a heart attack?

00:17:08.160 And he's like, that's fine.

00:17:09.060 Yeah, let's see.

00:17:10.020 That's fine.

00:17:10.620 We got to go.

00:17:11.860 So that was my, so I died.

00:17:14.600 Big death scene.

00:17:16.720 Exciting.

00:17:18.820 And that was my big first role.

00:17:23.540 That's why I moved to LA.

00:17:25.840 Because you were hooked.

00:17:27.440 Well, because I, this was my springboard to stardom.

00:17:34.700 No, I'm not, I'm not mocking.

00:17:36.600 Oh, because I just got, I just got this role and there was nothing else really shooting in Orlando.

00:17:42.980 Probably not.

00:17:43.540 So I thought, okay, this is a good time to go to LA.

00:17:47.220 Swamp thing is going to come out.

00:17:49.960 The agents in LA are going to see it.

00:17:52.780 And my phone will ring off the hook.

00:17:57.960 And then I called my sister because she was still in Orlando when it came out.

00:18:02.540 And I said, so did you, did you watch it?

00:18:05.340 How was it?

00:18:06.360 Because, you know, we were three hours later, earlier, later.

00:18:11.820 And she said, you should start drinking now.

00:18:14.520 So we did.

00:18:19.520 Then we had a Swamp Thing watch party.

00:18:23.380 And it was fun.

00:18:26.840 I mean, this was not like, nobody got golden globes from Swamp Thing.

00:18:33.540 No one.

00:18:34.200 No, not, no.

00:18:36.460 And my phone didn't ring after.

00:18:38.380 So how long did it take you from the day you got to LA till you thought, I'm successful now?

00:18:49.620 10 years.

00:18:50.860 10 years?

00:18:51.920 Yeah.

00:18:53.140 Wow.

00:18:54.900 Yeah.

00:18:55.920 How predatory is LA?

00:18:57.620 It feels that way to me.

00:18:59.960 In what way?

00:19:01.720 It feels like there's a lot of ambitious people.

00:19:04.620 And then there are a lot of people with power taking advantage of those ambitious people.

00:19:08.380 That's the way it feels.

00:19:10.220 There is definitely that.

00:19:14.820 There is definitely that.

00:19:17.220 I had one experience that I actually talked about in my book, Unscripted,

00:19:23.460 where there was a director that approached me and said,

00:19:30.780 will you meet me in my hotel room?

00:19:34.400 I want to talk to you about a film.

00:19:36.760 And at that point, I had a different agent.

00:19:39.220 I had a better agent.

00:19:42.060 And I was on Curb at the time.

00:19:47.040 And I said, well, I talked to my agent and I said-

00:19:51.140 You're on Curb Your Enthusiasm when he called you?

00:19:53.820 You know what?

00:19:54.500 I think we had shot it, but it hadn't aired.

00:19:56.880 Okay.

00:19:57.160 Oh, because I met him in a drugstore in LA.

00:20:08.320 Yeah.

00:20:09.480 I mean, this person has since been exposed, if you will.

00:20:16.940 And he came up to me and said, oh, you know, I mean, I guess I could tell you the name.

00:20:24.000 Yeah, go ahead.

00:20:24.680 Okay.

00:20:25.360 It's James Toback.

00:20:27.120 James Toback.

00:20:27.680 So, he wrote, what did he write?

00:20:32.300 Did he write that in Bugsy?

00:20:33.140 He wrote the film Bugsy.

00:20:34.900 He's a successful director, writer.

00:20:38.040 And I thought, well, this is a legitimate person.

00:20:41.500 And my agent said, I think you should meet him.

00:20:44.620 And I said, even if it's in his hotel room on a Friday night.

00:20:48.260 It's a little weird.

00:20:49.100 How about the polo lounge?

00:20:50.920 Yeah.

00:20:51.980 And he said, you know, people do this all the time.

00:20:55.840 This was a while ago.

00:20:57.460 This was a while ago.

00:20:58.260 They do this all the time.

00:20:59.200 Okay.

00:20:59.560 This was probably what I was, this was probably, how long ago?

00:21:04.000 20 years ago.

00:21:05.020 No, no, more than that.

00:21:06.640 25 years ago, at least.

00:21:10.720 And I felt strange going into a man's hotel room on a Friday night.

00:21:17.620 So, I asked my friends to come with me.

00:21:19.360 I said, will you guys wait in the polo lounge?

00:21:22.980 I said, this is-

00:21:23.880 Oh, it was in the Beverly Hills Hotel.

00:21:25.380 Yes.

00:21:25.900 Well, that's just perfect.

00:21:26.880 Am I allowed to say that?

00:21:27.660 And then I gave him the room number.

00:21:30.100 I said, if you don't hear from me in whatever it was, 30 minutes, come knock on this room.

00:21:35.220 Because I don't know if I'm going to have phone reception.

00:21:37.180 I don't know what's going to happen.

00:21:38.540 Probably, it's probably all going to be fine.

00:21:41.100 But if you don't hear from me, just come to the room.

00:21:44.300 And so, when I got to his room, I said, just so you know, I have, my friends are waiting

00:21:49.780 for me downstairs.

00:21:51.960 And, you know, he said, okay, or whatever.

00:21:54.920 I did not get the vibe that it was a weird situation.

00:22:03.580 And then he starts talking.

00:22:05.940 And then he's, you know, telling me, you really have to be willing to step out of your comfort

00:22:14.220 zone as an actor.

00:22:15.500 You have to, you know, and he's asking me, do you feel like you can do that?

00:22:22.460 And I said, well, of course I can.

00:22:24.060 I'm an actress.

00:22:25.580 I'm a trained actress is what we do all the time.

00:22:29.940 And so, then he starts asking me strange questions.

00:22:34.340 Like what?

00:22:35.560 Do I have a lot of body hair?

00:22:37.860 Do you have a lot of body hair?

00:22:39.120 Mm-hmm.

00:22:40.820 Wow.

00:22:41.620 And I...

00:22:42.500 That's not usually part of the woo.

00:22:44.220 It's really not.

00:22:46.280 And I thought that's so crazy.

00:22:47.780 Do you have a lot of body hair for an opening line?

00:22:50.860 That doesn't seem effective to me.

00:22:52.760 Does that...

00:22:53.080 I'm not a woman though.

00:22:53.660 Does that work?

00:22:54.740 Oh, yeah.

00:22:55.660 I fell madly in love that night.

00:22:57.580 We had tons of kids and we're happy.

00:23:00.760 And, you know, I was like, okay, well, I can't say that I do.

00:23:07.880 I'm like looking at the hair on my arms.

00:23:10.060 I'm like, you can't really see it.

00:23:11.980 I don't know.

00:23:12.400 I don't know where this is going, you know?

00:23:13.740 And then he says, you want to take off your shoes and get comfortable?

00:23:18.520 I said, oh, I'm comfortable.

00:23:21.400 And he said, you don't want to take off your shoes?

00:23:25.140 And I said, I don't.

00:23:27.860 I'm totally comfortable.

00:23:29.660 Don't worry about me.

00:23:31.320 And I was wearing boots.

00:23:32.300 And he said, why don't you take off one boot?

00:23:35.800 Oh, come on.

00:23:37.580 And at this point, I'm like...

00:23:38.980 Men are so creepy.

00:23:40.300 I'm like one boot.

00:23:42.460 And I'm thinking to myself, why one boot?

00:23:45.960 Like, where is this going?

00:23:47.460 Why would it be one boot?

00:23:49.160 But for whatever reason, I was sort of intrigued.

00:23:52.880 Like, why one boot?

00:23:56.240 So I took off one boot.

00:23:57.760 I left my sock on.

00:23:59.980 And then he starts talking again.

00:24:02.520 And then my friends knock on the door.

00:24:05.480 And I said, oh, that must be my friends.

00:24:09.540 And he looked at me like, what are you talking about?

00:24:12.240 And I went and I opened the door and they were all...

00:24:15.140 It was like an episode of Friends where all their heads are in the doorway.

00:24:19.160 Like, Cheryl.

00:24:20.160 And one of my friends looked at my feet and he said, where's your boot?

00:24:25.620 I said, oh, it's over by the couch.

00:24:29.560 And he goes, get your boot.

00:24:31.060 We're going.

00:24:31.800 And they were all like, yeah, get your boot.

00:24:33.740 You're out of here.

00:24:34.700 And I said, yeah, it is weird, isn't it?

00:24:37.080 And they said, yeah, it's weird.

00:24:38.460 It's so weird.

00:24:39.760 And then I left.

00:24:40.620 Did you ever talk to him again?

00:24:42.780 No, but, you know, he was sued by a lot of women because he would, this is what he'd do.

00:24:51.720 He would, because he is a successful person, director, writer.

00:24:57.800 He would go up to women in New York and LA and say, I'm James Toback.

00:25:05.660 You must know me.

00:25:06.820 Why don't you come over to my place?

00:25:08.580 I want to work on something with you or show you a script or whatever.

00:25:14.200 And, oh, and his thing was apparently that he liked feet.

00:25:24.460 Yeah, that is a thing.

00:25:25.560 And he would manipulate these women, overpower them, and do sexually provocative things.

00:25:40.100 We did an interview with a woman called Casey Means.

00:25:44.200 She's a Stanford-educated surgeon and really one of the most remarkable people I have ever met.

00:25:50.640 In the interview, she explained how the food that we eat produced by huge food companies, big food, in conjunction with pharma, is destroying our health, making this a weak and sick country.

00:26:03.800 The levels of chronic disease are beyond belief.

00:26:07.760 What Casey Means, who we've not stopped thinking about ever since, is the co-founder of a healthcare technology company called Levels.

00:26:15.820 And we are proud to announce today that we are partnering with Levels.

00:26:19.280 And by proud, I mean sincerely proud.

00:26:22.260 Levels is a really interesting company and a great product.

00:26:25.220 It gives you insight into what's going on inside your body, your metabolic health.

00:26:30.100 It helps you understand how the food that you're eating, the things that you're doing every single day, are affecting your body in real time.

00:26:36.820 And you don't think about it.

00:26:37.800 You have no idea what you're putting in your mouth, and you have no idea what it's doing to your body.

00:26:40.780 But over time, you feel weak and tired and spacey.

00:26:45.860 And over an even longer period of time, you can get really sick.

00:26:48.560 So it's worth knowing what the food you eat is doing to you.

00:26:52.680 The Levels app works with something called the Continuous Glucose Monitor, a CGM.

00:26:58.280 You can get one as part of the plan, or you can bring your own.

00:27:00.500 It doesn't matter.

00:27:01.840 But the bottom line is big tech, big pharma, and big food combine together to form an incredibly malevolent force, pumping you full of garbage, unhealthy food with artificial sugars, and hurting you, and hurting the entire country.

00:27:17.520 So with Levels, you'll be able to see immediately what all of this is doing to you.

00:27:20.860 You get access to real-time personalized data, and it's a critical step to changing your behavior.

00:27:26.820 Those of us who like Oreos can tell you firsthand.

00:27:30.080 This isn't talking to your doctor in an annual physical, looking backwards about things you did in the past.

00:27:35.360 This is up to the second information on how your body is responding to different foods and activities, the things that give you stress, your sleep, et cetera, et cetera.

00:27:44.520 It's easy to use.

00:27:46.940 It gives you powerful, personalized health data, and you can make much better choices about how you feel.

00:27:52.200 And over time, it'll have a huge effect.

00:27:54.400 Right now, you can get an additional two free months when you go to Levels.link slash Tucker.

00:27:59.600 That's Levels.link slash Tucker.

00:28:02.420 This is the beginning of what we hope will be a long and happy partnership with Levels and Dr. Casey Meen.

00:28:11.240 Did you lock the front door?

00:28:12.640 Check.

00:28:13.180 Closed the garage door?

00:28:14.360 Yep.

00:28:14.840 Installed window sensors, smoke sensors, and HD cameras with night vision?

00:28:18.340 No.

00:28:19.180 And you set up credit card transaction alerts, a secure VPN for a private connection, and continuous monitoring for our personal info on the dark web?

00:28:26.400 I'm looking into it.

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00:28:38.580 So you probably got Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile.

00:28:41.720 That means you are definitely way overpaying for wireless service.

00:28:44.840 And we're not just saying that.

00:28:46.180 It happens for a reason.

00:28:47.400 When you join a massive cell phone company, you get charter support everything that their operation is doing.

00:28:53.360 And that's a lot.

00:28:54.560 Big corporate programs, huge HR departments, thousands of retail stores you're never going to visit.

00:29:01.660 You think your money is going toward getting better cell service, 5G service, but it's not.

00:29:06.520 So the wireless company we use, PureTalk, is very different.

00:29:08.980 They use the exact same cell network as the companies we just mentioned, but they don't do any of the other garbage.

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00:29:37.620 Yeah.

00:29:38.600 I don't see feet as sexually provocative.

00:29:40.660 Maybe I'm the weirdo.

00:29:41.800 No, same.

00:29:43.620 And in the moment, I don't know.

00:29:47.460 It never occurred to me that this would do.

00:29:52.620 It never occurred to me that this is a weird guy who's trying to do something sexual.

00:30:04.580 I mean, I guess it's sort of a slow burn, you know, because a lot of stuff you do as an actor is weird.

00:30:17.700 There are a lot of things that are not normal, that are odd, that are out of your comfort zone.

00:30:25.520 You know, you're showing up on a set and kissing a person that you just met and that's part of your job.

00:30:30.900 If that's your role, that's the scene.

00:30:34.540 So, there are things that happen that are just strange and also normal at the same time.

00:30:41.440 So, you know, taking one boot off, I just didn't think that that was...

00:30:47.220 That the script called for that.

00:30:49.100 No, I didn't.

00:30:50.020 I had no idea if the script would go for that.

00:30:52.520 But I didn't...

00:30:54.520 I can understand how a woman that's in a spot like that, it's a very vulnerable place for them to be.

00:31:03.720 And if I didn't have my friends on the other side of the door, I don't know what would have happened.

00:31:11.640 I don't know.

00:31:13.880 But anyway, what was your question?

00:31:16.660 It was something about taking advantage.

00:31:18.860 Yeah, are there predators in Hollywood?

00:31:20.440 And that's my predator story.

00:31:23.640 So, how did you wind up on Curb Your Enthusiasm?

00:31:27.500 Well, I started studying at the Groundlings Theater in LA, which is...

00:31:34.080 It's an improv and sketch comedy theater.

00:31:38.000 And I was studying improv and performing.

00:31:42.140 And at that point, I had gotten a better agent.

00:31:46.200 And I started to go out on auditions.

00:31:51.580 I was auditioning for different pilots, different TV shows.

00:31:56.260 And I got called in to audition for a one-hour special.

00:32:03.480 They were just calling it the Larry David unscripted or untitled special.

00:32:09.860 And so, I went in and I was scheduled to audition and then they called me and they said, we're running behind because there's no script.

00:32:24.300 It's all improvised and it's taking longer than we thought.

00:32:26.720 So, I don't know when you're going to be able to go in.

00:32:29.940 And then that night, I was performing in a sketch comedy show.

00:32:36.460 And I was performing a sketch that I had written.

00:32:41.800 And the producer, director of the one-hour show was in the audience and really liked the sketch and thought that my sense of humor and Larry's would match up.

00:32:56.920 And you didn't know him.

00:33:00.680 I never met him.

00:33:02.060 Did you know who he was?

00:33:03.500 You know, I knew that he co-created Seinfeld with Jerry Seinfeld.

00:33:07.980 Yeah.

00:33:08.280 That's all I knew.

00:33:09.480 Yeah, he was not a public figure really.

00:33:11.100 I didn't know what he looked like.

00:33:13.040 I didn't know anything about him.

00:33:16.360 And so, I wasn't, it was probably good that I didn't because I wasn't intimidated because I didn't even know who he was.

00:33:23.700 I knew he was a lot older than me.

00:33:26.920 And I knew I was going in to play, to audition for his wife.

00:33:30.940 And I felt like, I'm, I don't know if I'm right for this part, but I'll go in and try to have a great audition and see what happens.

00:33:39.580 Maybe there's a different part, you know.

00:33:40.980 And then, and then when I walked in, I mean, the sketch that sort of opened the door for me was about a woman in, in her workplace.

00:34:05.080 And this guy comes in to do a safety, like go over safety procedures in an earthquake.

00:34:14.300 And everybody in the office seemed to know what to do in case of an earthquake.

00:34:20.160 And they were answering all the questions, right?

00:34:24.300 Oh, if, do you light a match after an earthquake?

00:34:28.880 And somebody said, no, because there could be a gas leak.

00:34:32.680 And I'm thinking, whoa, how did they even know that?

00:34:37.000 And, you know, should you walk around without shoes on?

00:34:39.760 And they said, no, because there could be broken glass.

00:34:42.060 And then they said, what do you do if your water supply runs out?

00:34:46.920 And I said, well, if push comes to shove, you can drink your own urine.

00:34:51.020 And my coworkers were like, that's gross.

00:34:55.440 I said, well, no, I mean, I don't.

00:34:59.060 And they said, that's really gross.

00:35:00.620 And so the rest of the sketch was, they're trying to move on, you know, okay, let's, do you call your friends?

00:35:08.340 And I go, just to be clear, I don't drink my own urine.

00:35:11.560 I'm not, I never, I'm not going to come home and drink my own urine.

00:35:14.940 And they're like, we, we get it.

00:35:16.680 We've got to finish this seminar.

00:35:18.980 And I, and I won't let it go, you know, at the, and I said, look, I'm going to say right now, I'm not going to drink my own urine.

00:35:26.580 Even, even if there's an apocalypse and the only way to survive is to drink your urine.

00:35:33.000 I'm not drinking my urine.

00:35:34.320 I want you guys to know right now, I'm not drinking my urine.

00:35:36.440 So that was the sketch that, that Bob Whitey saw that, and he brought me in the next day to meet Larry.

00:35:44.740 And then when I walked in for the audition, he said, oh, the urine girl is here.

00:35:48.800 So that's the sketch that you wrote.

00:35:50.180 Yeah, that's the sketch that I wrote.

00:35:51.020 Well, that does sound like something from Curp Your Enthusiasm.

00:35:53.780 So Bob thought that Larry would appreciate that sort of sense of humor.

00:35:59.900 Yeah.

00:36:00.180 Well, that turns out to be a perfect match.

00:36:02.060 Yeah.

00:36:02.400 How long were you on that show?

00:36:04.640 The show was on for 24 years.

00:36:08.360 24 years?

00:36:09.100 Well, it took 24 years.

00:36:11.480 Yes.

00:36:11.860 And there were 12 seasons.

00:36:14.260 So there were some seasons when there were some, there was like a four hour, a four hour, a four year break between some seasons.

00:36:23.760 It was, it wasn't consecutive.

00:36:25.280 Like most TV shows.

00:36:28.340 Like why?

00:36:29.640 Because it was Larry David and Larry wanted to only do shows when he felt inspired.

00:36:38.540 Smart.

00:36:39.240 Yeah.

00:36:39.660 So he felt like after, even after the first season, I thought that was the end of the show.

00:36:45.140 Cause he said that was the end of the show.

00:36:47.000 And then I get a call and say, oh, we're going to do another season.

00:36:52.520 I was like, that's amazing.

00:36:54.140 So every season it was like that.

00:36:56.280 And then one time I got a call from him and he said, uh, I've, I've got some bad news.

00:37:02.980 I said, okay.

00:37:04.720 And he said, we're going to do, we're going to do another season, but you're not going to be in it.

00:37:09.940 And I said, okay, I mean, that's okay.

00:37:14.160 And, uh, and then they did a season in New York that I wasn't in.

00:37:20.500 And in the show, Larry and I had gotten divorced.

00:37:23.180 And then the season after that, he brought me back into the show as his ex-wife.

00:37:31.620 But it was over 24 years that all this took place.

00:37:35.220 That's wild.

00:37:36.280 So you got to know him well, of course.

00:37:38.620 What's he like?

00:37:40.900 Um, well, of course he's very, very smart.

00:37:47.020 Very funny.

00:37:48.980 Um, he, he's very caring.

00:37:56.300 I know it doesn't seem like it, but he's, he's very caring about people close to him.

00:38:03.780 Uh, and, uh, he's neurotic.

00:38:09.540 Yeah.

00:38:10.060 So basically.

00:38:10.980 I'm not breaking news.

00:38:11.800 So basically.

00:38:13.260 It's real.

00:38:14.760 It's a lot of, it's real.

00:38:16.340 Yeah.

00:38:16.820 Yeah.

00:38:17.140 Well, it wasn't that long ago that many Americans thought they were inherently safe from the kinds of disasters you hear about all the time in third world countries.

00:38:23.980 A total power loss, for example, or people freezing to death in their own homes.

00:38:28.200 That could never happen here.

00:38:29.900 Obviously it's America.

00:38:31.040 People are recalculating, unfortunately, because they have no choice.

00:38:36.240 The last few years have taught us that.

00:38:38.020 Remember when the power grid in Texas failed in the dead of winter?

00:38:41.580 Yeah.

00:38:42.200 It happened.

00:38:43.160 And it could happen again.

00:38:44.660 So the government is not actually as reliable as you'd hope they would be.

00:38:48.640 And the truth is the future is unforeseeable.

00:38:51.420 And things do seem to be getting a little squirrely.

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00:40:00.880 You may have noticed this is a great country with bad food.

00:40:05.020 Our food supply is rotten.

00:40:07.160 It didn't used to be this way.

00:40:08.760 Take chips, for example.

00:40:10.440 You may recall a time when crushing a bag of chips didn't make you feel hungover,

00:40:15.720 like you couldn't get out of bed the next day.

00:40:18.260 And the change, of course, is chemicals.

00:40:20.980 There's all kinds of crap they're putting in this food that should not be in your body.

00:40:24.720 Seed oils, for example.

00:40:26.440 Now even one serving of your standard American chip brand can make you feel bloated, fat, totally passive, and out of it.

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00:40:57.260 Snacking on masa chips is not like eating the garbage that you buy at convenience stores.

00:41:01.940 You feel satisfied, light, energetic, not sluggish.

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00:41:41.440 Where do you store those?

00:41:43.280 Under the bed?

00:41:44.440 The back of a closet?

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00:42:37.440 You're going to dig it.

00:42:38.600 We definitely, plus they're good looking, I will say, dot com.

00:42:41.600 24 years is a long time to spend with the same people.

00:42:44.260 Yeah.

00:42:45.060 Did you get along with all of them?

00:42:46.500 I did.

00:42:47.440 Really?

00:42:47.680 Yeah.

00:42:49.080 I loved all of them.

00:42:51.440 I mean, I still do.

00:42:53.020 And our crew, we had a few crew members that were with us from the beginning.

00:42:59.900 And you know what?

00:43:00.660 It was very sweet too because there was so much time that was passing and we all were,

00:43:08.000 we had kids and then we watched our kids grow up and then we, you know, some cast members

00:43:14.820 would have their kids as interns on the show.

00:43:18.680 So it was sweet, you know, they were just a real part of my life.

00:43:23.240 Yeah.

00:43:23.520 It sounds like that was a lot of your adult life.

00:43:25.320 Yeah, it was.

00:43:26.340 Yeah.

00:43:27.300 And you met your husband through the show or through Larry?

00:43:30.800 Yeah.

00:43:31.160 Through Larry.

00:43:32.040 I, I met Bobby, Robert Kennedy Jr. through, I mean, Larry just introduced us, you know,

00:43:39.960 I, Larry and I went to a water keeper event and he just introduced me to Bobby, not in

00:43:46.100 any way like you guys should, you know, have anything to do with each other.

00:43:54.740 It was just like, this is Cheryl, this is Bobby.

00:43:57.900 So that was the first time I met him.

00:43:59.920 Yeah.

00:44:00.480 What'd you think?

00:44:01.100 Yeah.

00:44:02.040 And I thought, I thought it was nice.

00:44:07.820 He, you know, he was a great speaker.

00:44:10.940 Bobby was a great speaker.

00:44:12.100 I saw him speak at the event.

00:44:13.780 And also I just remember, oh, that's a pleated khakis guy.

00:44:19.800 A pleated khakis guy?

00:44:21.300 Yeah.

00:44:22.240 You know, a guy that wears pleated khakis.

00:44:24.140 Is that a plus or a minus?

00:44:25.620 Well, hmm.

00:44:27.020 Is it a plus or a minus?

00:44:28.000 I think growing up in Tallahassee, I had a lot of guy friends that wore pleated khakis and

00:44:38.540 it was kind of a, it reminds me of a, hmm, like a football coach type of a, it's to me at the time, it felt like not a creative type person that I was used to.

00:44:54.460 I don't know if that makes sense.

00:44:58.100 The pleated khakis are the not, they're the more non-creative.

00:45:01.100 Yeah.

00:45:02.000 Interesting.

00:45:02.600 I don't think pleated khakis exists anymore.

00:45:04.860 I'm glad.

00:45:05.580 I am too.

00:45:06.540 That was a sad face in this country's history.

00:45:08.920 I agree.

00:45:09.500 I mean, listen, they weren't good for guys or girls.

00:45:12.480 Right.

00:45:12.940 I agree.

00:45:13.320 I never fell for it.

00:45:14.040 I'm not bragging.

00:45:14.800 Okay.

00:45:14.860 I never, no.

00:45:15.720 That's good.

00:45:16.680 So yeah.

00:45:17.120 So what I.

00:45:17.680 I forgot that even happened.

00:45:20.080 It was burned into my brain.

00:45:22.300 It was.

00:45:23.840 So it was part of the appeal, I got to fix this.

00:45:26.480 No.

00:45:27.060 I mean, that part of the thing was just like, oh, he's a pleated khakis guy.

00:45:30.200 Yeah.

00:45:31.300 You know, okay.

00:45:31.980 That's nice.

00:45:33.120 Yeah.

00:45:34.280 So, but yes.

00:45:35.260 Then when years later, when we got together, I was.

00:45:40.740 Oh, it was years.

00:45:42.160 Oh yeah.

00:45:42.600 Because when I met him, he was, he was married.

00:45:46.500 I was married to different people.

00:45:48.820 So it was not at all like.

00:45:51.560 Right.

00:45:51.820 It was no spark or interest or anything like that.

00:45:55.320 It was just a casual acquaintance.

00:45:57.500 And, and then I stayed involved with water keeper and I would see Bobby once a year, I think at a water keeper event.

00:46:09.360 And it was, he was always pleasant, always nice.

00:46:12.800 But we, I really never even spoke to him that much because it was always a big event.

00:46:16.980 And, and, and then I got, I got divorced.

00:46:23.100 He got divorced.

00:46:24.400 We were going through divorce.

00:46:25.940 And I was going to see him.

00:46:29.380 And I thought, oh, this is interesting.

00:46:31.620 Like six years later or however long.

00:46:34.680 Um, it'll be interesting to see him because it's hard, it's hard going through a divorce.

00:46:42.100 And it's hard even talking to somebody about it because nobody, unless you're going through it, nobody wants to talk about it.

00:46:49.140 No, that's right.

00:46:49.860 And even if you're going through it, you might want to not want to talk about it.

00:46:52.500 But anyway, when I saw him, I said, how are you doing?

00:46:54.740 And he said, good.

00:46:56.260 I said, how are you really doing?

00:46:58.460 And he said, good.

00:47:00.580 Well, we should talk.

00:47:01.980 He said, okay.

00:47:02.700 And then, and then we started talking and I just, it was really the first time I talked to him as a person, as a, he was, uh, very, very dynamic.

00:47:19.300 You know, he's a dynamic person and I just saw him in a different way for, for the first time.

00:47:26.380 And I, uh, I was really taken with him.

00:47:32.700 What did your friends think?

00:47:37.180 Uh, they, you know, my friends, they thought it was fun, but, you know, at the time Bobby was living in New York.

00:47:47.000 I was living in, uh, in LA.

00:47:49.280 Bobby was an environmental attorney and, um, everybody loved him.

00:47:56.040 I remember.

00:47:56.800 Except for the big corporations that he was suing.

00:47:59.800 Yeah.

00:48:01.000 Uh, so, you know, it was just a kind of a fun, uh, situation.

00:48:08.380 And they wanted to hear the highlights, you know, my friends.

00:48:14.760 Um, but it wasn't, it didn't seem like it was going to be anything permanent.

00:48:23.600 So, I don't know, but it was just, uh, wasn't, didn't seem like a big thing at first.

00:48:31.460 Yeah.

00:48:32.000 Well, a lot of things start that way.

00:48:33.620 Yeah.

00:48:34.660 So, then you marry him.

00:48:36.420 You're famous.

00:48:37.060 He's famous.

00:48:38.660 Probably easier to marry someone who understands what that is, I would think.

00:48:43.060 Seems like it.

00:48:43.840 I understand why people, I mean, it has its, um, its pluses and minuses, right?

00:48:53.320 Of course.

00:48:53.680 Because probably two people that are known or, you know, well-known or whatever that looks

00:49:04.160 like, they're only known in certain circles.

00:49:11.600 Uh, so I don't know.

00:49:13.340 There are probably two famous people that feel, somebody feels left out while the other person's

00:49:18.680 shining or whatever that looks like.

00:49:20.100 So, there might be that, um, I know that should be true with friends that are actors, you know,

00:49:28.540 two actors together and sometimes, or a director and an actor and their career is doing great

00:49:34.460 and the other one is, you know, in a different pocket in their career.

00:49:38.040 That can be tough, but it was good for me and Bobby because we were in different worlds.

00:49:45.180 Yeah.

00:49:45.480 And, uh, I remember early on when we were going through the airport together and somebody stopped

00:49:54.300 him and said, you know, what you're doing is amazing.

00:49:59.000 What you're doing is so important for the environment, for our country, uh, for people,

00:50:05.780 for people's health.

00:50:06.580 Thank you so much.

00:50:07.600 Almost in tears.

00:50:08.680 And I said, wow, that was really nice.

00:50:11.320 And then we keep going through and then this guy said, oh my gosh, that diarrhea scene that

00:50:17.760 you did in the car wash, that killed me.

00:50:21.140 And I was like, thank you.

00:50:22.460 And I look at Bobby like, ha ha, you're not the only one.

00:50:26.900 So we had a, it was fun getting together with him in that way.

00:50:31.360 And then he moved out to LA.

00:50:32.260 Well, then he asked me to marry him and I said, I don't, I don't really want to get

00:50:38.840 married if we're going to live in different States.

00:50:43.500 Fair.

00:50:44.360 Right.

00:50:45.360 And he said, okay, I'll come out there.

00:50:49.560 Wow.

00:50:50.940 I mean, I'm making it sound easy.

00:50:53.180 It wasn't an easy decision, but yeah, that's what happened.

00:50:57.200 And just from the outside looking in, things go great and then COVID happens.

00:51:02.260 And Bobby goes from being controversial to being really controversial.

00:51:08.080 Yes, you can say that.

00:51:10.060 Yeah.

00:51:10.660 Fair.

00:51:10.980 That's very fair to say.

00:51:12.940 And more love too, not just more hated, but more prominent.

00:51:18.300 That's also true.

00:51:19.640 Also more prominent and started really speaking to a lot of people.

00:51:27.260 And it was hard to being in LA or challenging perhaps because the, I would say the majority

00:51:38.420 of the people in LA that I was encountering did not agree with him.

00:51:46.380 Um, and they could not imagine anybody agreeing with him, but the reality was there were millions

00:51:56.880 of people across the country that did, were agreeing with him.

00:52:00.980 Oh yeah.

00:52:01.800 Um, but it was hard to see that in LA, but that's what was happening.

00:52:06.620 Did anyone say anything to you about it?

00:52:09.340 Like at work?

00:52:12.200 Yes.

00:52:13.000 What did they say?

00:52:15.220 Um.

00:52:15.740 I'm so impressed by how brave your husband is.

00:52:19.040 Actually, I did get some of those.

00:52:20.280 I bet you did.

00:52:21.420 Um, I got, I did get some of those.

00:52:23.540 Um, but I also got, well, what is he doing?

00:52:26.960 Um, you've got to stop him.

00:52:31.060 Um.

00:52:32.480 You've got to stop him?

00:52:33.980 I got a lot of that.

00:52:35.340 Really?

00:52:36.500 Yeah.

00:52:37.300 Yeah.

00:52:38.900 Wow.

00:52:39.720 Like it's, um, you know, the whole, I can't believe I'm the first one saying it.

00:52:46.520 The whole vaccine issue, people were so, um, passionate about it one way or the other.

00:52:56.600 And the people, and, and there were a lot of people that felt like, uh, if we don't all

00:53:04.220 take this vaccine, we're all going to die.

00:53:06.480 And if you don't take it, you're going to kill us.

00:53:09.940 So the, so people really felt like that and, and would tell me that.

00:53:14.980 Actually?

00:53:15.980 Yeah.

00:53:17.040 You know, I didn't have very strong feelings about vaccines one way or the other my whole

00:53:21.060 life.

00:53:21.400 I never really thought about it.

00:53:22.480 I didn't realize that it was a religion to a lot of people.

00:53:25.940 And political.

00:53:27.540 Well, but that, you know, it's religion because that doesn't make any sense.

00:53:31.400 If the vaccine is effective and you take it, then you're good to go.

00:53:35.000 Right.

00:53:35.360 Why does it matter if I take it?

00:53:36.820 If somebody else does it.

00:53:38.680 Did anyone, I heard smart people make that case.

00:53:41.660 People I thought were smart, but it doesn't make any sense just on the face of it.

00:53:45.400 No, it doesn't make any sense.

00:53:46.900 And that, and that wasn't enough for people.

00:53:50.720 It wasn't.

00:53:51.720 No, it wasn't enough for someone to be able to take the vaccine and feel like, whew, I'm,

00:53:59.020 I'm okay now.

00:53:59.900 I don't care what you do.

00:54:01.140 Right.

00:54:01.480 It wasn't enough.

00:54:02.360 So the, my body, my choice was not a real thing.

00:54:05.640 It turned out.

00:54:07.740 No, no.

00:54:09.020 It was like, and I want to, I need to get involved with your body.

00:54:12.360 Yeah.

00:54:12.520 It's your body, my choice.

00:54:13.660 Yeah.

00:54:13.980 It's your body, my choice.

00:54:14.860 Yeah.

00:54:14.980 Yeah.

00:54:15.220 And feminism is also obviously fake because why would you hold a woman responsible for

00:54:20.860 her husband's views?

00:54:22.780 That's a fair question.

00:54:24.460 You'd be like, well, you know, you're a human being like with autonomy and stuff and you're

00:54:29.040 responsible for your views, but your husband is a different person, not the same as you.

00:54:32.360 Yeah.

00:54:32.800 And he's got his views, so they're not your fault, right?

00:54:36.200 That one would think, but that's, it's also not the case.

00:54:40.680 Yeah.

00:54:41.920 Interesting.

00:54:42.700 How did, so as, but this went on and on and on.

00:54:47.960 It wasn't like a flu season.

00:54:49.820 No.

00:54:49.880 It was like years and it got more intense.

00:54:52.140 Yes.

00:54:52.860 What was that like for you?

00:54:55.020 Uh, it was stressful.

00:54:58.500 It was stressful.

00:55:00.880 Um, and it was loud.

00:55:02.900 You know, it felt like the conversation was loud and it was, you know, what was really hard,

00:55:08.860 I thought was.

00:55:12.240 Like, like I said, both sides, I felt like both sides were pretty loud.

00:55:16.760 And so even if you would find out that maybe somebody had passed away, uh, it seemed like

00:55:25.080 both sides wanted to know, was that, was that person vaccinated?

00:55:28.920 Was that the reason?

00:55:29.700 They weren't there or is that the reason?

00:55:31.680 And it, and it made me sad because I, I had several friends that passed away during that

00:55:37.240 time and it felt like we were talking about the wrong things at the moment.

00:55:43.900 You think?

00:55:44.860 It's like, wow, I, it's not, why are we talking about the person that just passed away and

00:55:51.700 who, who they were and how they affected our lives, you know?

00:55:55.200 So I, I hated it.

00:55:57.080 I hated it.

00:55:57.600 How can I use other people's deaths to score political points?

00:56:00.460 Yeah.

00:56:00.580 I hated it.

00:56:01.440 Yeah.

00:56:01.700 Well, good.

00:56:02.460 So that was hard.

00:56:03.880 What's a measure of your decency that you hated that?

00:56:06.420 No, it is.

00:56:07.240 It is.

00:56:07.940 Someone dies.

00:56:08.620 You should take, take a mourn the person's death, right?

00:56:12.140 That's what it's all about.

00:56:14.100 Who was that person?

00:56:16.520 How did they remain in your life?

00:56:18.260 Yes.

00:56:18.860 And what do they leave behind?

00:56:20.960 Exactly.

00:56:21.880 But when it goes quickly from, you skip over that conversation, it was just hard.

00:56:31.440 I think it was hard for people to accept that vaccinated people ever die because it's magic.

00:56:37.240 And you live forever when you get a vaccine.

00:56:38.860 And I think they were like, oh, there's got to be some way to explain that.

00:56:42.640 Like, how could a vaccinated person die?

00:56:44.840 Well, it felt like both, it felt, once again, it felt like both sides were, well, yes, they

00:56:53.060 got the vaccine and then they got COVID, but they would have died if they didn't get the

00:56:58.000 vaccine or, you know, it's, it's sort of like the, you could fit, fit different scenarios

00:57:03.960 into your own narrative.

00:57:06.220 Which was also annoying.

00:57:10.240 And, you know, studies, so many talks of studies.

00:57:13.620 Well, I can show you a study that shows this.

00:57:16.280 I can show you a study that shows that.

00:57:17.960 And it's just about back and forth.

00:57:20.040 And it's like being in a courtroom and you're watching both sides.

00:57:25.820 You have an expert and the expert will say 100%, you know, if you pick up this glass, you will

00:57:35.340 die.

00:57:36.600 And then the other experts say, 100%, that is not true.

00:57:40.900 Here's a study that shows something completely different.

00:57:42.980 So it just felt like there was a lot of that going on.

00:57:46.200 It still is a lot of that going on.

00:57:47.840 Instead of, to me, what I, what I have a hard time understanding is instead of always pointing

00:57:57.780 the finger and saying, you're wrong, you better listen to me, you're wrong.

00:58:04.740 Instead of that, and two people saying, okay, let's talk about this because it is a problem.

00:58:10.980 Right.

00:58:11.200 There's a huge problem here.

00:58:12.960 It's a crisis.

00:58:14.000 A lot of people are, are, um, suffering.

00:58:17.840 How can we figure it out?

00:58:20.660 Like, show me what you've got.

00:58:22.160 I'll show you what I've got.

00:58:23.560 Let's, is there a cross section?

00:58:26.640 Why aren't these two sides working together?

00:58:29.340 That's what I don't understand.

00:58:31.440 Well, it's helpful to begin the conversation with here.

00:58:33.780 So I've been wrong.

00:58:35.460 And then everyone calms down, you know.

00:58:37.900 Does anybody start with that?

00:58:39.880 It works.

00:58:41.040 It does work.

00:58:41.840 Yeah.

00:58:42.120 Because it's the ultimate display of good faith.

00:58:44.160 I've been wrong and here's how.

00:58:45.500 And then you de-escalate immediately.

00:58:48.060 But when you begin with, you know, here are the eight things I don't like about you.

00:58:51.380 Yeah.

00:58:51.880 It doesn't go very far.

00:58:53.080 So at this time, your husband is at home writing The Real Anthony Fauci.

00:58:56.900 Mm-hmm.

00:58:58.200 An amazing book, bestseller.

00:59:00.660 Mm-hmm.

00:59:01.280 Despite long odds.

00:59:02.720 And what was that like?

00:59:04.080 Did you talk to him about it as he was writing it?

00:59:05.660 Um, there was a lot of Anthony Fauci talk in our house for good reason.

00:59:16.260 Of course.

00:59:16.640 Pro or con.

00:59:21.800 Um, and there was a, you know, he worked really hard on it and he, he spent a lot of time,

00:59:30.240 um, citing sources in that book.

00:59:34.060 Yeah, I noticed.

00:59:35.100 So, you know, there were a lot of days that were just filled with citing sources by, you

00:59:42.200 know, um, this article, that study, this goes in page two, this goes in.

00:59:47.980 So it was, it took up a lot of space in our lives.

00:59:52.800 Yeah.

00:59:53.200 I mean, there are thousands of footnotes in that book and it's a very long book.

00:59:57.140 Um, yeah, so it was, uh, I, uh, you know, was it important?

01:00:04.700 Yes.

01:00:05.340 Was it joyful?

01:00:06.920 No.

01:00:07.560 Yeah.

01:00:08.680 Wasn't like.

01:00:09.580 No spouse of a writer is ever happy about books.

01:00:12.180 Yeah.

01:00:12.800 I've had children cry to me when, uh, I'm going to write a book, another book.

01:00:17.100 Yeah.

01:00:17.420 Everyone cries.

01:00:18.100 Please don't.

01:00:18.280 Yeah.

01:00:18.440 It's very unhappy.

01:00:19.380 No, I know.

01:00:20.480 It is hard to write a book, isn't it?

01:00:22.340 It's awful, but it's terrible for the people around you.

01:00:24.940 Yeah.

01:00:25.220 Yeah.

01:00:25.800 No, I'm very aware of that.

01:00:27.860 I've, I've received that feedback.

01:00:30.820 I hear you.

01:00:32.060 Sitting alone in your office.

01:00:33.240 I'll try to do better.

01:00:34.020 Jane smoking, feeling angry.

01:00:35.940 Um, no, no, I, yeah, no, I know that well.

01:00:38.920 So were you ever worried that, I mean, this is getting more and more and more controversial.

01:00:46.120 You, you marry this man and you're in separate worlds, as you said, and that's a wonderful thing.

01:00:50.800 He's a star in his world.

01:00:52.020 You're a star in your world.

01:00:53.440 They don't really collide.

01:00:54.700 They don't really don't intersect.

01:00:56.280 No, they don't.

01:00:57.100 And people in your world think Bobby Kennedy's pretty cool because he's like a Kennedy and

01:01:01.100 they're like sort of, you know, Democratic Party royalty and liberal in a wholesome

01:01:06.660 way.

01:01:07.200 And like, not, not a scary liberal, but like a do-gooder liberal.

01:01:09.960 Yeah.

01:01:10.460 Like everyone kind of likes that.

01:01:11.840 Yeah.

01:01:12.740 Clean water.

01:01:13.480 And you're on the coolest show in America.

01:01:15.740 And of course, everyone loves that.

01:01:16.900 And all of a sudden, everyone in LA is pissed about COVID and there's your husband who's

01:01:22.500 in his office writing this book.

01:01:24.500 Right.

01:01:24.940 Accusing Fauci of like starting the pandemic.

01:01:27.960 Yes.

01:01:29.260 Were you worried that that was going to affect you, your life?

01:01:31.900 Um, I mean, was I worried?

01:01:42.300 Yes.

01:01:42.900 But it was more than worry.

01:01:46.800 It was affecting my life.

01:01:48.720 So it wasn't even like, but I was concerned.

01:01:53.300 I was concerned.

01:01:54.920 I didn't know if this was going to be, um, something that we move through that I moved

01:02:02.460 through that.

01:02:03.980 Whoa, that was a crazy time.

01:02:08.080 And now things are back to normal.

01:02:10.260 Did that happen?

01:02:13.040 It did not.

01:02:14.300 No.

01:02:15.660 There is no normal.

01:02:17.520 No.

01:02:18.440 We broke normal a long time ago.

01:02:20.360 Yes.

01:02:20.620 This was the beginning of a, of a journey.

01:02:22.300 Yeah.

01:02:22.600 Well, as I said at the outset, you're in a place I doubt you anticipated being.

01:02:25.620 Yeah.

01:02:25.880 I did not expect that.

01:02:27.280 So that was, that was, uh, when I realized, oh, uh, this is.

01:02:33.980 Yeah, this is changing everything.

01:02:37.580 So I would, it was publicly reported that people in Los Angeles were like, maybe we shouldn't

01:02:44.420 give Cheryl Hines work because of her husband.

01:02:46.580 Do you think that's real?

01:02:48.640 Uh, I do think that's real.

01:02:52.800 I think that's.

01:02:53.940 I find that shocking.

01:02:55.060 I do.

01:02:55.620 Sorry.

01:02:57.780 Well, I mean, some people are just so.

01:03:00.760 They are so, um, taken with politics.

01:03:09.420 They're so upset by politics that even to see me is upsetting to them.

01:03:18.940 Can I suggest something though, that this is why it matters.

01:03:22.000 It's not just about getting parts in TV shows or writing books about Fauci.

01:03:26.980 It's a genocidal mindset.

01:03:28.300 It's the mindset that says, well, you know, we hurt the guilty, but we also hurt his family

01:03:34.120 and that's a genocidal mindset.

01:03:35.640 And it's weirdly common in elite circles in the United States.

01:03:39.780 You know, it's like, what do you have to do with this?

01:03:42.560 Nothing.

01:03:43.340 You married the guy in, by the way, you were already successful when you married him.

01:03:47.860 You already had your own thing.

01:03:49.640 Yeah.

01:03:50.240 And you're already famous and you marry him.

01:03:52.340 You're not writing a book on Dr. Fauci, but let's hurt her because she's related to him.

01:03:55.740 That's, that's where genocide comes from, that way of thinking.

01:03:59.280 It is, it is, uh, it is strange.

01:04:04.100 It's very strange to me.

01:04:05.880 And at the same time, uh, on the opposite side,

01:04:09.900 yes, there are people that I'm probably not going to work with again.

01:04:14.520 And, and there are people that I will be working with that have reached out to me and that are in

01:04:24.040 this business that are very successful people that say, oh, I want to work with you.

01:04:29.320 Well, that's a great way.

01:04:30.040 That's a great way to look at it.

01:04:31.880 Yeah.

01:04:32.500 So it's, but it was hard because at the time, I mean, I've really loved all the people I've worked with.

01:04:38.260 It sounds like you did.

01:04:39.320 And I really have appreciated them.

01:04:43.340 And, and I also know, you know, we're, we're sort of generalizing.

01:04:47.400 I, there are plenty of people that I have worked with that have reached out to me and, you know,

01:04:53.720 will say, I can't wait to work with you again.

01:04:57.300 Um, they're not doing it publicly, but the other people aren't doing it publicly either.

01:05:02.500 Nobody's, you know, besides Bradley Whitford, nobody's going on, you know.

01:05:08.700 What did Bradley Whitford say?

01:05:10.640 Oh gosh.

01:05:12.060 You didn't hear that dumb tweet?

01:05:14.460 I try and stay away from all things Bradley Whitford related.

01:05:18.200 But don't tell me.

01:05:20.480 I can't wait for the new outrage.

01:05:22.040 What is it?

01:05:22.520 Oh my gosh.

01:05:23.920 I don't know.

01:05:25.120 I, it's when Bobby, I guess it's when Bobby backed, uh, President Trump.

01:05:31.240 Um, and I just woke up, I woke up and I had people texting me and I was trying to stay

01:05:37.780 off social media too, because it's nothing good comes from it.

01:05:40.920 You think?

01:05:42.260 And I'm, I'm looking at my phone and I'm seeing texts from my friends saying, uh,

01:05:48.620 oh, you know, what an asshole.

01:05:50.720 And I'm thinking who, oh, who's the asshole today?

01:05:53.580 It's always somebody.

01:05:54.980 Um, and then somebody sent me his, something that he posted on X.

01:06:00.800 And it was something like, uh, um, I bet my nephew Jackson would know it by heart, but

01:06:08.220 it was something like, Hey, Cheryl Hines, um, something like insulted Donald Trump.

01:06:15.940 And then, uh, of course, insulted Bobby and said, Oh, you're, this is a real good, um,

01:06:25.640 setting a great example for the kids talking about me and, uh, a real profile and courage.

01:06:32.960 And I was like, what's, what, first of all, what kids, what, what kids am I setting an

01:06:46.540 example for?

01:06:47.360 And if the example that I'm setting is that I'm supporting my husband, I'm glad that's

01:06:57.720 the example for the kids.

01:06:58.900 Best example you could set.

01:07:00.620 So that was strange.

01:07:02.760 Uh, and then profile and courage just because that's the name of the book that John F.

01:07:07.640 Kennedy wrote, but you know, no explanation other than it's just, he just, uh, sort of called

01:07:13.340 me out, uh, for not being out, outraged at my husband.

01:07:18.880 I'm not even sure what he was hoping that I would, uh, publicly denounce your husband.

01:07:26.200 Yeah, I guess.

01:07:27.740 Right.

01:07:28.020 That's it.

01:07:28.460 I'm getting a divorce.

01:07:29.900 You're right, Bradley.

01:07:31.340 You know, I, it was a straight, it was so strange to me.

01:07:34.400 I was, I was just like, Whoa, what?

01:07:37.280 Yeah.

01:07:37.600 Like Brad, and I, you know, I, I know Bradley and I, he, he's an acquaintance.

01:07:44.380 And if I saw him at a party, we'd hang out and laugh and talk.

01:07:48.060 But so for him to just suddenly come after me in a tweet was just weird.

01:07:53.420 Yeah.

01:07:53.940 But kind of consistent with the culture of the city that you live in, right?

01:07:57.660 Well.

01:07:58.740 There's not a lot of, I mean, it's so monochromatic.

01:08:01.440 It's like everybody has the same views on everything.

01:08:04.660 You know what's interesting?

01:08:05.520 Um, after the first, um, after the election with, with, uh, Trump and, and Hillary, I remember

01:08:16.540 going to work and I remember we were, I was in, it was in the green room up somewhere and

01:08:22.480 people were talking about the election and everybody was saying, I can't believe Trump

01:08:28.040 won.

01:08:28.480 Couldn't believe who is, who voted for this person?

01:08:30.920 And there was one actor that said, Oh, I voted for him.

01:08:34.380 And everybody looked at him like, what?

01:08:39.080 And, and I, you know, I love this actor.

01:08:42.280 I'm not going to say his name because.

01:08:43.800 Is he still working?

01:08:45.360 Yes.

01:08:45.760 And he's still working.

01:08:47.160 And I said, Oh, that's so interesting.

01:08:50.640 And I said, why did, why did you?

01:08:52.960 And I wanted to hear, I wanted to talk to him because I felt like, Oh, tell me why.

01:08:57.980 Cause what am I missing?

01:09:00.000 You know?

01:09:01.560 And everybody else was just acted like he was a leper in the moment.

01:09:06.280 Just like what?

01:09:07.740 And I remember thinking at the time, like, this is so strange.

01:09:13.220 Yeah.

01:09:14.180 Cause that's not an environment conducive to creativity.

01:09:17.880 No.

01:09:18.680 Creative people are open-minded.

01:09:20.040 Yeah.

01:09:21.240 And willing to entertain all kinds of wild notions.

01:09:24.520 Some of which are wrong.

01:09:25.400 Yeah.

01:09:25.640 And curious.

01:09:26.640 Curious.

01:09:27.240 About other people, especially.

01:09:28.840 Exactly.

01:09:29.660 And nicely put.

01:09:30.420 They're curious about other people.

01:09:32.100 Exactly.

01:09:32.860 So it's, it's odd to me.

01:09:35.400 Well, yeah.

01:09:36.540 And, you know, maybe it has something to do with the declining creative output in Los

01:09:40.240 Angeles.

01:09:42.760 I'm just guessing.

01:09:43.640 I can't speak to that.

01:09:44.620 I don't know.

01:09:45.240 I don't know.

01:09:46.120 I don't know.

01:09:47.200 I know.

01:09:48.380 Listen, the, the people in this country and the entertainment business are the best in

01:09:54.540 the world.

01:09:55.080 They're the, they're the best in the world.

01:09:56.720 Yeah.

01:09:57.260 And.

01:09:58.380 But a lot of it's being made outside of LA.

01:10:01.920 Right.

01:10:02.500 I mean, yeah, that's the unfortunate part.

01:10:06.020 A lot of the industry has been driven out.

01:10:08.760 Yeah.

01:10:09.060 I mean, I always defend Los Angeles.

01:10:10.800 I lived there as a child.

01:10:11.920 I think it's the most American of all cities.

01:10:14.200 I love it.

01:10:15.440 I was just there.

01:10:16.220 I, I'm probably the only person with my voting record who defends LA, but I, I always

01:10:21.100 do.

01:10:21.900 But I just notice that it's when I was a child, it's, it did seem open-minded.

01:10:26.880 Yeah.

01:10:27.820 Maybe too much, probably famously too open-minded.

01:10:30.500 Yeah.

01:10:30.580 Like some things are not a good idea.

01:10:31.740 Do whatever.

01:10:32.360 Right.

01:10:32.780 Be the person you want to be.

01:10:33.440 Clearly.

01:10:34.040 No, clearly that's not the road to happiness.

01:10:36.080 On the other hand, it is the road to creativity.

01:10:39.520 Right.

01:10:39.960 Well, that, that's why I find it odd LA.

01:10:44.840 I find it odd that, uh, on the one hand, you have a lot of people saying, um, yeah, let

01:10:53.620 people be people and love the person, no matter who they are.

01:10:58.080 I mean, that's, that was the feeling I always felt in LA.

01:11:02.260 Unless you're married to someone who writes a book I don't like.

01:11:04.340 Yeah.

01:11:04.500 In which case, cut them off.

01:11:06.720 Let them start to death.

01:11:08.160 I was like, oh, I didn't see the fine print.

01:11:10.180 Okay.

01:11:10.500 I know.

01:11:11.500 I know.

01:11:11.640 I know.

01:11:11.940 I know.

01:11:12.240 Weird.

01:11:13.760 It is weird.

01:11:16.160 Yeah.

01:11:16.900 It sounds like you're just by the way you talk that you were not super political.

01:11:21.520 No, I wasn't political at all.

01:11:23.580 I was, uh, you know, the only thing I had ever posted was to vote.

01:11:30.640 I didn't say who I think you should vote for.

01:11:33.480 I was just like.

01:11:34.160 But personally, you weren't like yelling about politics at dinner most nights.

01:11:38.460 Yeah.

01:11:38.680 I can, I can feel that.

01:11:39.580 And by the way, I, I never knew what politics my friends or coworkers had.

01:11:46.380 Yeah.

01:11:47.040 Uh, cause I would never be the person to bring up politics unless they were talking about it.

01:11:51.600 I would chime in, but, um, it just was not, I would, was not that person that was interested.

01:11:59.400 I was, I was interested in entertainment and writing and producing and directing and acting.

01:12:05.700 And to me, and so inspired by the people around me in LA, so inspired by them.

01:12:13.560 So yeah, politics was just for what other people do.

01:12:18.940 Yeah.

01:12:19.520 You know, I think most people felt that way.

01:12:21.420 So when your husband said, oh, by the way, uh, just, you know, I may run for president.

01:12:25.660 What did you think of that?

01:12:28.280 I was, uh, shocked.

01:12:33.000 You said, this is not something you thought of before.

01:12:35.560 No, no.

01:12:38.760 Yeah.

01:12:38.960 I said president of what?

01:12:40.820 I was hoping it was like a board or a company.

01:12:45.760 Homeowners association.

01:12:47.580 The homeowners association.

01:12:49.520 I can support that.

01:12:50.620 Uh, I was shocked and I, I, you know, I was like, well, I need a minute to think about this.

01:13:05.300 I mean, do I have to give you an answer right now?

01:13:08.020 Is this something that I have to answer now?

01:13:09.860 And he said, no, I just, I need to know how you feel about it.

01:13:13.040 Cause I can't do it.

01:13:14.220 I won't do it unless you're, it's okay with you and you're supportive of it.

01:13:19.060 And, uh, I said, I have to really think about it, you know, because I knew,

01:13:25.240 I knew that it would be life-changing.

01:13:30.940 And it's hard when.

01:13:32.800 Did you know how much?

01:13:34.760 Uh, no, no, but I knew it would be big.

01:13:42.540 You know, I knew it would be.

01:13:44.120 And I think what's really hard is I've always been very independent in my life, right?

01:13:50.620 I moved to LA.

01:13:52.540 I lived on my own.

01:13:54.460 I sort of, you know, made my own path to do this and that, you know, other things.

01:14:03.320 And however I got there was not the normal way.

01:14:06.240 I was doing it my own way.

01:14:07.200 So I was used to taking risks for myself and knowing, well, this might not work out.

01:14:15.380 This might work out, might not, but that's okay.

01:14:17.580 I'm taking the risk.

01:14:19.820 But it's sort of a harder, of course, situation.

01:14:24.700 And this is with everybody, right?

01:14:26.300 Anybody who's in a relationship, anybody who has kids, anybody who loves somebody else.

01:14:33.500 When they want to take a risk, um, and they're doing it because they, they're, they want to

01:14:42.980 accomplish something or do something.

01:14:45.600 Um, it's harder when they're the ones making the decision, but you know that it's going to

01:14:52.560 really change your life too.

01:14:54.100 Oh, yeah.

01:14:55.780 Harder.

01:14:57.060 So what did, was the show still going?

01:14:59.700 I can't remember.

01:15:00.840 Yeah, the show is still going.

01:15:01.680 What did they say when you show up at work and you're like, Hey guys.

01:15:07.740 Um, didn't love it.

01:15:10.760 Um, you know, they were always very, um, loving to me and, and even to Bobby.

01:15:30.100 You know, as, you know, as a person.

01:15:34.100 So I never felt hate coming at me or towards Bobby, but definitely there was strong, um,

01:15:45.020 opinions about, should he be running for president against Joe Biden?

01:15:50.720 Well, that's how it all started, right?

01:15:53.140 Cause he's the fourth Kennedy to run for president and the only one not to get the support of

01:15:56.800 Hollywood.

01:16:00.680 Interesting.

01:16:01.900 Yeah.

01:16:02.300 It was, it was, it was an interesting time and I, I did have, um, maybe one, um, discussion

01:16:12.440 with someone on the set where that person said, well, he, Bobby has to drop out.

01:16:19.700 He cannot be running against Joe Biden.

01:16:22.460 On the set?

01:16:23.120 Somebody said this to you?

01:16:23.780 Well, you know, it was.

01:16:24.980 Yeah, but at work.

01:16:25.780 Yeah, at work.

01:16:26.400 And I said, well, um, I said, you know, I don't know that Biden is a strong candidate.

01:16:38.580 Well, you are Ms. Understatement, aren't you?

01:16:42.000 I don't know that Joe Biden is a strong candidate.

01:16:44.840 Yeah, because, because that, that's what they asked me.

01:16:47.020 He's like asleep in his peas at this point.

01:16:49.040 He's like, a strong candidate.

01:16:50.400 And he said, they said, why, why is Bobby running?

01:16:53.880 And I said, because, uh, perhaps Joe Biden is not a strong candidate.

01:16:59.100 And, um, I mean, that was probably as heated, heated as it got, but it was clear that a lot

01:17:07.600 of people in town did not want Bobby running against Joe Biden.

01:17:13.140 A lot of people in the country, a lot of Democrats, Democrats were not supportive of Bobby.

01:17:18.500 Well, some were, but.

01:17:19.840 Yeah, some were.

01:17:20.400 Some were, yeah, definitely.

01:17:22.020 On the margins, but the party itself was adamantly opposed.

01:17:25.960 Yes.

01:17:27.720 Um, wow.

01:17:29.360 So how long did you do the show during the campaign?

01:17:32.620 Oh, we just had our last season.

01:17:35.960 So it was, so I was probably, um, Bobby was probably running for, um, maybe two months,

01:17:48.220 like maybe a two month overlap or something.

01:17:51.380 What'd you think of that experience?

01:17:56.840 I don't want to get emotional.

01:17:58.160 Um, I thought it was.

01:18:04.680 Sorry.

01:18:05.420 You, that stuff is pretty heavy.

01:18:08.000 Yeah.

01:18:08.160 I mean.

01:18:09.720 I mean.

01:18:20.440 It was hard because it, it may be sad.

01:18:24.700 Yeah.

01:18:24.980 Because I, you know, I had been working on this show for a long time and.

01:18:34.140 And it was always pure joy.

01:18:40.500 Yeah.

01:18:40.780 And I mean, even when the vaccines of it all were introduced, it, there started to be an

01:18:52.340 element that, um, made its way into conversations at work that up until that moment had, like

01:19:08.640 you said, only been pure joy.

01:19:11.920 So, and, and, you know, not to say that people through the years didn't have health issues,

01:19:20.720 didn't have relatives who passed away.

01:19:23.440 And so we, you know, we were there for each other.

01:19:27.900 Um, so.

01:19:30.480 But it started to divide your friendships.

01:19:34.080 Yeah.

01:19:34.600 Yeah.

01:19:38.100 And.

01:19:40.180 It's.

01:19:40.820 Is that because you showed up and said, you have to vote for Bobby for president or else

01:19:44.680 I'm not going to be your friend?

01:19:45.620 Or was it because people were cruel to you because of your husband?

01:19:49.160 Well, I, I, you know, I don't know if I'd use the word cruel, but, um.

01:19:57.620 Yeah.

01:19:58.020 I never told anybody they needed to vote for Bobby.

01:20:01.320 Somehow I didn't think you did.

01:20:05.880 Um, I.

01:20:08.820 Uh, so, yeah, so.

01:20:13.360 That part of it made me sad that that was how the show was ending for me, you know, and

01:20:22.620 it was just personal for me.

01:20:23.780 It was for everybody else.

01:20:24.920 It was.

01:20:25.180 It was, it was fine and it was normal.

01:20:28.620 It was usual.

01:20:29.320 They were, they, they were ending the, um, the series and, you know, going on late night

01:20:36.940 talk shows and talking about the show and they could talk about the show.

01:20:41.680 They could talk about curve without.

01:20:43.260 Without talking about politics, without anybody asking them questions about their spouses.

01:20:53.280 Yeah.

01:20:53.960 But that was not the world for me.

01:20:59.740 And so that was.

01:21:02.380 You couldn't go anywhere without having to answer questions about your husband.

01:21:05.480 Right.

01:21:06.440 Yeah.

01:21:06.660 I still, it's still, it's still a conversation.

01:21:11.860 Yeah.

01:21:12.420 I'm for conversation.

01:21:13.640 I'm not for punishing the innocent because that again is the genocidal mindset that I

01:21:17.260 object to completely.

01:21:18.220 And I just, I just can't imagine.

01:21:21.120 I'm shocked to learn how many people have that mindset and think it's okay to torment

01:21:25.600 people because of their relatives.

01:21:28.800 Thank God I'm not held accountable for my relatives.

01:21:31.640 I mean, I haven't been for most of my life.

01:21:33.300 You know what I mean?

01:21:34.000 Right.

01:21:34.260 All of us, I think, feel that way.

01:21:36.700 And, but the idea that you would attack someone for a relative is, man, that's so dark, I

01:21:43.260 think.

01:21:43.780 I think it's really strange.

01:21:47.880 It's strange.

01:21:48.800 You're a nice person.

01:21:50.480 I can tell you're restraining yourself.

01:21:52.660 You just see so much of this and that's the same attitude, you know, like, well, let's

01:21:56.920 kill the Tootsies because they're Tootsies and their parents are bad.

01:21:59.920 So let's kill the kids.

01:22:00.600 Like, that's just not the way to think.

01:22:02.900 That's not the Christian way to think.

01:22:04.180 It's not the humane way to think.

01:22:05.700 And it was never the American way to think.

01:22:08.240 And it is all of a sudden.

01:22:10.120 And I, and you're a victim of it.

01:22:12.880 Well, it's a, it's an odd place to be.

01:22:16.560 It's a strange, it's very odd place.

01:22:17.940 You know what?

01:22:20.580 Something that stood out to me, like during all this time, when, when the tables were sort

01:22:29.440 of turning, um, after, after the 2020 election and Biden became president, I had a friend,

01:22:40.180 a good friend of mine, who's, who's no longer speaking to me, but, uh, she said,

01:22:49.620 I wonder what Melania is going to do now.

01:22:52.960 This is after the election.

01:22:54.800 I said, oh, I don't know.

01:22:57.460 She could probably do anything she wants.

01:22:59.080 She goes, I hope she can't.

01:23:00.780 I hope she can't do anything.

01:23:04.640 And I was like, what are you talking about?

01:23:09.300 And she said, well, if she is married to Donald Trump, I hope she can't do anything.

01:23:15.520 And I just, it was eyeopening to me.

01:23:19.740 I thought, whoa, uh, that's odd.

01:23:27.620 Well, it's hate.

01:23:28.920 That's actual hate.

01:23:30.200 I said, I said, so, and she said, haven't you, haven't you thought that?

01:23:36.380 And I said, uh, I have not.

01:23:40.840 No.

01:23:41.360 I said, I have not spent one moment, um, hoping something horrible for somebody else.

01:23:50.500 It was so, but just, but just to know, like, that's what's living on in her mind.

01:23:57.280 Like she has spent, even if it's two minutes of her day, but it clearly, it sounded like

01:24:03.020 it was more than that.

01:24:05.140 Must spend time, like, wishing, and by way, everything that I know,

01:24:11.360 about Melania Trump is pretty amazing.

01:24:14.900 She only, she does a lot of work for children.

01:24:19.900 Um, and she does it quietly and she doesn't need fanfare for it, but she really works hard,

01:24:28.540 uh, to try to reunite children with their parents for the, um, a lot of different programs

01:24:38.520 that she works.

01:24:39.080 But so for one of my friends to be wishing something on somebody that she doesn't even

01:24:48.080 know this person, I don't know.

01:24:50.540 It was eyeopening to me.

01:24:51.920 Well, again, it's back to the same mindset.

01:24:53.720 So she didn't say, I hate Melania because of these three things she did.

01:24:57.500 It was her connection to someone she doesn't like.

01:25:00.020 Exactly.

01:25:00.640 Oh.

01:25:00.800 That made her guilty.

01:25:01.600 You know what?

01:25:02.720 I don't know why that brings such clarity to me, because like I said, now this friend

01:25:12.080 does not talk to me.

01:25:13.360 Yeah.

01:25:14.380 Because you're married to the wrong person.

01:25:16.100 Oh my gosh.

01:25:17.020 I never, why did I never connect that?

01:25:19.260 Sorry.

01:25:20.120 Well, this is like the root of like a lot of the world's problems.

01:25:23.540 It's like, let's kill their families too.

01:25:26.000 It's what's happening in a lot of places in the world right now.

01:25:29.840 And, and it's happening in Los Angeles.

01:25:32.600 It's pretty crazy.

01:25:34.600 Yeah.

01:25:35.140 And I thought it was crazy at the time.

01:25:36.900 It's like, well, you hate her only because she's married to somebody else you hate.

01:25:43.720 And she won't speak to you.

01:25:45.040 This is a coworker friend from your business.

01:25:50.820 Well, I had been friends with her since, uh, for 30 years.

01:25:54.280 Oh gosh.

01:25:56.820 Oh, I'm sorry.

01:25:59.220 Well, thank you.

01:26:00.620 And, you know, I've come to, did you have to ask yourself, well, if that's who this person

01:26:08.980 is, is that who I?

01:26:10.160 Well, that's right.

01:26:11.120 Yeah.

01:26:12.580 Yeah.

01:26:13.140 No, I think that's right.

01:26:14.440 And so one more sore subject, but the security thing, I, that was very upsetting to me.

01:26:22.460 I mean, I know your husband and I really love your husband.

01:26:24.560 So that was part of it.

01:26:25.640 But even if I didn't like your husband, I would, um, and I very much do, but I would,

01:26:30.340 even if I didn't, I would think, hmm, presidential candidates ought to have secret service protection

01:26:35.280 if there, if it's real candidacy, traveling around the country with staff, which he was

01:26:39.280 packing venues, which he was very famous person.

01:26:43.020 And then of course the whole, his family backstory is like so unbelievable.

01:26:47.820 Right.

01:26:48.260 So we don't need to be reminded of what could happen.

01:26:50.300 It's obvious.

01:26:50.880 And yet he did not have secret service protection from the Biden administration.

01:26:55.500 He did not.

01:26:56.340 Okay.

01:26:56.700 They wanted him out of the race one way or the other.

01:26:59.400 I think that's the obvious conclusion there.

01:27:01.060 That's so dark and sick.

01:27:02.900 But here's my question.

01:27:03.780 I didn't see many prominent people stand up, including people he's related to and say,

01:27:09.140 whoa, wait a second.

01:27:11.680 This man needs secret service protection.

01:27:13.440 His father was murdered.

01:27:14.780 Are you joking?

01:27:16.600 Like, what was that?

01:27:18.740 Why was there no outcry over that?

01:27:20.580 I was with him in some city, New York, I think.

01:27:23.980 Oh, it was at MSG.

01:27:25.460 It was last, I don't know when it was, whatever I traveled to, but it was somewhere.

01:27:30.060 And I was walking down the street with him.

01:27:32.760 No, it was in DC.

01:27:34.500 And he had no secret service protection at all.

01:27:36.920 Yeah.

01:27:37.660 And I was like, what is going on?

01:27:40.420 Yeah.

01:27:41.780 Why didn't people say anything?

01:27:43.920 Why didn't prominent people?

01:27:45.220 Isn't it crazy?

01:27:47.220 It is crazy to me.

01:27:49.660 Do you notice this?

01:27:51.440 Oh, yeah.

01:27:52.260 Well, I do.

01:27:52.860 I talk about this in my book too, unscripted.

01:27:55.320 Um, because that was, that was also part of, um, what, you know, there were so many things

01:28:04.400 that were very surreal about it, about Bobby running, but that was one of them where, you

01:28:12.620 know, that was a big concern.

01:28:16.760 The biggest concern about him running is, was security because I, you know, I'm like,

01:28:26.960 this is, you're putting yourself out there.

01:28:33.980 And yes, your father was assassinated while he was running for president.

01:28:38.860 Your uncle was assassinated when he was president.

01:28:41.640 Um, that is, this is so dangerous.

01:28:46.200 And, and then I thought at the beginning, I, I thought, okay, he's announcing he's running

01:28:57.060 for president.

01:28:57.900 We'll, we'll see what happens in the primaries because in the primaries we'll know if he

01:29:04.340 has support or not and it'll go one way or the other.

01:29:06.660 So I thought maybe this is going to go on.

01:29:08.660 Maybe he'll be running for, I don't know, five or six months or something.

01:29:14.300 Um, and we had a private security, um, and he, you know, applied for, for a secret service.

01:29:27.200 And first, first of all, they didn't even respond to him in a, um, in a, um, normal timeline.

01:29:42.480 So it was just like, well, we'll wait, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see.

01:29:46.880 And then when Bobby switched to running as an independent, the Democrats came out basically

01:29:58.780 and said on TV, I watched an interview where they said, no, we are going to make sure that,

01:30:05.020 um, RFK Jr.

01:30:07.420 spends all of his money on lawsuits.

01:30:10.940 We're going to keep suing him.

01:30:13.020 So he has no money for his campaign.

01:30:15.300 And then, you know, the, what we could hear people talk about not in front of the camera was

01:30:22.760 also he's, we're going to make sure he has to spend a lot of money on security.

01:30:27.540 So he doesn't have money for his campaign.

01:30:29.240 And also heard, um, if he was given secret service, then it would legitimize him as a candidate

01:30:40.700 and they didn't want that.

01:30:43.020 So all of that was happening.

01:30:47.200 And then, yes, you had some family members who came out publicly against Bobby and said,

01:30:58.940 but we, but we love him.

01:31:02.180 But I never saw any of them publicly say,

01:31:06.640 even though we don't agree with him politically, we are concerned about his safety.

01:31:14.120 You didn't hear any say that.

01:31:15.700 I did not, of his siblings now, I did not.

01:31:17.960 Sick.

01:31:18.540 It's the sickest thing.

01:31:19.520 Sorry, you don't have to say that.

01:31:20.680 It's your, you're, they're your in-laws, but I mean, I can't imagine anything more loathsome

01:31:25.960 than that.

01:31:26.440 It was, um, hard to believe, really hard to believe.

01:31:31.720 And then, you know, I, I went down a rabbit hole when I was writing this book because at the

01:31:38.780 time people, different, um, outlets would give different reasons why, of course,

01:31:45.700 Robert Kennedy didn't get secret service.

01:31:49.160 It's too early.

01:31:50.200 But then you would look, I would look up and Barack Obama got it 300 and something days

01:31:56.140 before the election.

01:31:57.680 The, you know, people, people got it 200 days before the election.

01:32:03.700 So that was not it.

01:32:06.320 There, uh, some people got it before they even announced that they were running.

01:32:12.060 So whatever they were, whatever people were saying that they always were trying to make

01:32:19.340 Bobby look like he's being ridiculous.

01:32:23.940 You're being ridiculous for asking.

01:32:27.160 You're not even a real candidate.

01:32:30.020 Um, and meanwhile, you know, he had someone show up at one of his rallies, um, with loaded

01:32:38.620 weapons, uh, you know, uh, pretending to be a federal agent flashing badges and, and they

01:32:50.300 arrested him, but then I was home watching when a guy came over my back fence and was

01:32:56.800 approaching the house.

01:32:58.820 I was on, I was doing a Instagram live with my friend from Tallahassee.

01:33:03.460 And I said, I, I, I see this guy out the window and I, and she said, are you okay?

01:33:09.280 I said, I don't, I think I have to go.

01:33:11.680 Something's happening.

01:33:12.460 And then I see our security guard, you know, take his weapon out.

01:33:16.900 And I'm watching this on Instagram live.

01:33:19.580 And I said, I really do have to wrap it up.

01:33:21.460 So yeah, that guy was apprehended, was arrested by LAPD, was released, and then took, uh, an

01:33:29.920 Uber back to our house and was arrested again the same day.

01:33:32.860 And both of those, both of, both of those events were publicized.

01:33:40.440 People knew about it.

01:33:41.840 I, you know, I was in LA when, when it happened, when the one guy was arrested at the, um, rally,

01:33:49.020 it made the, um, local news.

01:33:52.720 I don't know if it made the national news, but people knew, um, people in the administration

01:34:01.060 knew, people in Bobby's family knew.

01:34:04.740 And, and it's not everybody, I know that there were a few members of the family that

01:34:10.480 I know that inquired, um.

01:34:14.860 Issuing a public statement and calling on Joe Biden to provide their brother with Secret

01:34:18.980 Service would have fixed that in about two seconds.

01:34:21.720 Well, that's what President Trump did.

01:34:24.480 Yeah.

01:34:25.340 Oh, I know.

01:34:26.620 It's just crazy that it took Trump.

01:34:28.680 Right.

01:34:29.140 To provide protection to Bobby Kennedy.

01:34:31.600 I know.

01:34:32.060 So, a year and a half later, you know, Bobby had been running for a year and a half by

01:34:37.300 that point.

01:34:38.580 So, okay.

01:34:40.000 The night Trump is shot in Butler, Bobby and Trump speak for the first time and start kind

01:34:48.320 of feeling each other out about maybe we could team up.

01:34:52.700 Maybe Bobby could endorse Trump, which would be, at the time seemed completely crazy, but,

01:34:58.100 uh, was clearly possible from your perspective, like, well, I mean, first your husband comes

01:35:04.740 out against vaccines, then he attacks Fauci, then he runs for president, and now he's thinking

01:35:10.340 about endorsing Donald Trump.

01:35:11.820 I mean, these are, like, how many more red lines are there in Hollywood?

01:35:15.600 I think, yeah, that was the last, that was definitely the last, um, strike.

01:35:25.380 Yeah, that was it, huh?

01:35:26.720 Yeah.

01:35:27.560 That was beyond anything anybody could take.

01:35:31.240 Some people, some people.

01:35:33.700 But yeah, it was, uh, that was, that, it's all been, uh, a learning process for me.

01:35:44.980 You know, and to, to, it's been, um, it's, it's, sometimes it has tested me to take a

01:35:58.760 step back and get a different perspective, you know, because the, like you said, that

01:36:07.000 was something I couldn't, I could not have ever imagined.

01:36:09.840 Yeah.

01:36:14.080 Well, it was a big deal.

01:36:15.560 I mean, the Trump people who very much wanted, um, I know, you know, Bobby's endorsement wanted

01:36:20.500 him to campaign with them, wanted to bring on the administration, knew that your opinion

01:36:26.080 was really important to him, obviously, or his wife, but he really cared about what you

01:36:30.860 thought, and they were like, they were focused on that.

01:36:34.180 So when was your, when was the first time you met Donald Trump?

01:36:37.760 I met him, he, he was, uh, the, the assassination attempt was on a Saturday and I met him on

01:36:46.400 that Monday morning.

01:36:47.620 I don't remember the dates by any means, but.

01:36:49.900 That was July, mid-July.

01:36:51.140 Yeah.

01:36:51.460 So that was right before the Republican convention was starting.

01:36:56.580 Yeah.

01:36:56.800 It started Monday night.

01:36:58.540 Right.

01:36:59.180 So, so President Trump wanted to meet with Bobby that morning in Milwaukee.

01:37:05.620 They had talked for the first time on Saturday and then by Monday you were out there.

01:37:09.460 That's right.

01:37:10.500 They work fast.

01:37:12.640 Well, we see that in this administration, they work fast.

01:37:16.880 Yeah.

01:37:17.600 So yeah, everything was happening quickly, but you know, there was a,

01:37:26.180 there was a shift, there was a huge shift when there, there was the assassination attempts

01:37:36.960 on Donald Trump.

01:37:38.880 It was a, you know, so many people were, a lot of Americans felt like that this is too much.

01:37:47.560 Yeah.

01:37:47.740 And now we really have to get behind Trump.

01:37:55.980 This is too much.

01:37:58.280 Um, so there was that shift going on.

01:38:00.820 And at the same time, it was, um, had to be emotional for President Trump and his family.

01:38:12.880 I mean, the bullet came very close to killing him in inches.

01:38:23.580 That's dramatic.

01:38:25.560 Yeah.

01:38:26.020 So there was a lot, there, there was a lot going on and a lot of, um, even emotions, emotions

01:38:38.040 happening.

01:38:39.180 So when they started talking on, on Saturday, they said they wanted to meet on Monday.

01:38:48.400 I was going to meet Bobby after this meeting, he was going to sit down with the president.

01:38:54.420 They were going to talk and see what was, what, if anything, they, if they wanted to

01:39:01.180 work together, if they didn't, if they agreed on things, if they didn't.

01:39:04.300 And I was going to meet with Bobby after the, the, that, um, meeting.

01:39:09.180 But when I landed in Milwaukee, the, the security said, oh, we're taking you straight to the

01:39:16.000 meeting.

01:39:16.920 I said to, I'm going to the meeting.

01:39:22.560 So it was interesting.

01:39:24.020 That was the first time I, I walked in and it was, it was Bobby and, um, Amaryllis, who

01:39:31.100 was my, uh, daughter-in-law.

01:39:33.920 Yeah.

01:39:34.740 Who's running, who was running Bobby's campaign at the time.

01:39:37.500 Um, Susie Wiles, who was running, um, Donald Trump's campaign and, and Donald Trump.

01:39:44.800 And that was the first time I met him and he shook my hand and, you know, he, he was

01:39:53.680 a very genuine person and it was, I don't know.

01:40:01.420 I, I don't, I don't want to say surprising, but maybe surprising.

01:40:08.020 Out of body experience.

01:40:10.600 I mean, here you, you work on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

01:40:13.100 You live in LA for 30 years.

01:40:14.280 I know.

01:40:14.800 Donald Trump's the enemy and all of a sudden you're like in a meeting with him.

01:40:17.340 I know.

01:40:17.840 By the way, there's an episode of Curb where Larry wears a MAGA hat to repel people in

01:40:23.540 LA so he doesn't have to have lunch with people, which is funny, but it's also true, uh, which

01:40:31.460 is also funny, but, um, but yeah, so, uh, so I was, I don't know.

01:40:39.380 I was expecting something else.

01:40:41.640 What were you expecting?

01:40:44.100 Corn, sulfur?

01:40:44.980 Or, um, I was expecting, uh, I think I was expecting somebody who didn't listen to other

01:40:57.880 people, wouldn't be interested in other people, uh, and that's not, that's not who I met.

01:41:08.560 I met, um, somebody who was very interested in, in other people, really wanted to hear

01:41:16.740 what somebody else had to say.

01:41:19.340 I think that was very surprising to me.

01:41:22.840 Did you call back to LA and say, Hey guys, he's actually cool.

01:41:26.260 Good news, guys.

01:41:30.300 Um, I didn't even tell anybody at the time and, and, and it was so, it was so stressful.

01:41:37.880 Well, there was stress for so many reasons at that time.

01:41:41.560 Security, number one reason, right?

01:41:44.120 I mean, this just happened with Donald Trump with secret service protection and Bobby still

01:41:51.320 didn't have secret service protection.

01:41:53.680 And, um, during that meeting, um, president Trump posted Bobby Kennedy should have secret

01:42:04.700 service protection.

01:42:05.480 This is ridiculous.

01:42:06.400 And that day Bobby got secret service protection.

01:42:09.880 I mean, were the wheels already in motion perhaps, but the, but the other thing about,

01:42:15.220 so he ended up getting secret service protection.

01:42:18.420 It was a, um, presidential, um, an, an executive order, which was fine.

01:42:26.880 But usually in, uh, when a presidential, um, candidate gets secret service protection, when they're running, their spouse, their family also has protection.

01:42:41.420 But because this was an executive order, it was just for Bobby, which was also strange.

01:42:49.600 Because suddenly I'm in the house.

01:42:54.560 I'm in my house.

01:42:56.360 Now we have secret service.

01:42:57.860 Bobby has secret service.

01:42:58.920 So I will be in the house with the kids for two days.

01:43:02.420 And then Bobby's coming into town and then we have to evacuate the house so they can do a bomb sweep before Bobby gets there.

01:43:10.600 And I'm thinking, yeah, I'm thinking, oh, the house that we've just been in for three days.

01:43:16.020 Nobody cared about the bomb then is weird.

01:43:18.540 Uh, but yeah, that's how it was.

01:43:20.040 So, so it was straight.

01:43:23.360 I thought that was strange too.

01:43:24.920 So it was just a very, it was a very stressful time.

01:43:32.080 So after, so during that meeting, right.

01:43:34.540 So I, I mean, stressful already that there was an assassination attempt on, on Donald Trump.

01:43:40.860 That's so stressful.

01:43:42.240 That's so awful.

01:43:43.340 And what does that say about us?

01:43:46.020 Um, and then now he's meeting with Bobby because they're talking about perhaps working together.

01:43:54.240 Oh, so stressful.

01:43:56.720 And then, um, and then that day we get secret service protection.

01:44:04.800 So that's another, you know, crazy thing that's happening.

01:44:10.420 Cause now you're talking about, um, police, you know, sheriffs everywhere around your house and, um, motorcades everywhere.

01:44:23.320 Bobby goes everywhere.

01:44:24.200 Bobby goes just like motorcade.

01:44:26.340 I'm sure the neighbors didn't love it.

01:44:28.400 Um, and the dogs, you know, now we had bomb sniffing dogs and we already had our crazy dogs.

01:44:35.460 It was just, it was, all of it was a lot happening at, at once.

01:44:40.160 Yeah.

01:44:41.220 That's when I, I was just telling you, I broke into hives.

01:44:46.640 And then later that day, while I was in Milwaukee, um, my lips started swelling.

01:44:52.660 I mean, a crazy amount.

01:44:56.880 It is a crazy amount.

01:44:59.980 So much so that I had to go to the emergency room because I was worried that my throat might close up.

01:45:09.640 It was all from stress.

01:45:11.560 That's wild.

01:45:13.700 It's crazy.

01:45:14.800 So when was the first time you told people back home that Trump was actually kind of normal in person?

01:45:27.440 Well, I really didn't tell my friends.

01:45:34.660 Um, I told my, I mean, I'm very close to my, my sister, my brother.

01:45:42.140 So they're really the, the, you know, my sounding board.

01:45:48.260 I, one of my best friends back in LA, I mean, I have a few best friends back in LA.

01:45:54.500 I wouldn't even tell them that because I didn't want them to be stressed about it.

01:46:00.260 I didn't want, I didn't want people to know because I don't, I don't need that other people asking them about it.

01:46:07.420 Because I know that there are, people are already mad because I'm married to Bobby.

01:46:15.760 I don't need people being mad at my friends because I'm married to Bobby and they're friends with me.

01:46:24.820 Well, so I wasn't even telling people, I don't want to put them in a position of, oh my God, I can't believe your friend did this.

01:46:32.480 Does that make sense?

01:46:33.380 Of course.

01:46:34.980 Um, I mean, it makes sense if you live in a completely insane world where talking to Donald Trump is a death penalty offense.

01:46:42.600 I mean, it's so fucking nuts that it's hard to know how even to assess it.

01:46:45.440 No, it's crazy.

01:46:46.640 Yeah.

01:46:46.760 Um, but you know, my family, my, my sister and my brother, they were like, yeah, that, that makes sense.

01:46:57.460 That's really interesting.

01:46:59.000 You know, they were very curious to hear, hear about it and how, what I thought about it and what I, how I found Donald Trump to be.

01:47:09.980 They were like that.

01:47:11.080 Wow.

01:47:11.420 That's so interesting.

01:47:12.740 But I guess that makes sense because you do hear that about him.

01:47:15.900 You hear that he's, people say he's charming and I understand why because somebody who is, somebody that you meet that feels completely comfortable with who they are, completely comfortable in their own skin.

01:47:32.840 And they come across as charming.

01:47:37.100 Of course.

01:47:37.740 Because it's like, oh, I'm not, I don't need to put on any airs.

01:47:42.420 I don't need to be anybody other than I am.

01:47:45.280 And that's who I found him to be.

01:47:48.200 I found him to be just a genuine person.

01:47:52.900 Did you ever meet Melania?

01:47:54.660 Yes.

01:47:55.560 I've met her a few times.

01:47:56.820 What do you think?

01:47:57.440 I really like her.

01:47:58.720 Did you call your friend in LA and say, actually, she's pretty cool?

01:48:01.760 I did.

01:48:03.080 Did you actually?

01:48:04.920 Yeah.

01:48:05.940 I mean, Melania, I haven't had, I've definitely had more time with, with President Trump than Melania.

01:48:16.460 Just a few moments with Melania, but she was so sweet to me when I, one of the first things that we went to after the administration started was the governor's dinner.

01:48:32.240 At the White House.

01:48:33.080 It was a very beautiful dinner with all the governors.

01:48:35.880 And I just had one tiny moment with Melania and she asked me how I was finding DC and how I was doing with everything.

01:48:46.120 And she said, you should really try to enjoy it.

01:48:49.600 And I took that in because I thought, yeah, you're right.

01:48:57.400 Because up until that moment, I was thinking, I don't know if I'm going to like this.

01:49:06.420 I don't know if I am ready for this.

01:49:08.840 I don't know.

01:49:09.620 And then when she said that, I thought, yeah, why don't I try to enjoy it?

01:49:15.960 Yeah, why not?

01:49:17.700 And then it really, I don't know, it really like, those were the words I needed to hear at that moment.

01:49:23.840 Have you enjoyed it?

01:49:24.860 Yeah.

01:49:25.860 Really?

01:49:26.500 Not all of it, but I've enjoyed, I enjoy the people that I spend time with in DC.

01:49:37.400 I really like the people that Bobby works with.

01:49:41.180 Yes.

01:49:41.520 I like their spouses.

01:49:42.660 I like them as people, you know, as someone to hang out with and talk to you at the dinner party.

01:49:50.860 I really like them.

01:49:54.820 You had an appearance in The View the other day, which I saw part of it.

01:49:59.720 And they immediately started attacking you for your husband because they're feminists.

01:50:04.500 You know, that makes sense.

01:50:05.220 And they were, the criticism of him and then to direct it at you, I guess I've said it eight times, but I really mean it is insane.

01:50:16.800 But it's all about the vaccines.

01:50:19.420 Like, what is that?

01:50:22.100 Why is it that someone, because he has said many times, including to me, against vaccines on principle,

01:50:29.980 but some of these vaccines are clearly dangerous and they are, and that's proven.

01:50:33.860 And why wouldn't we try to make them safer?

01:50:36.520 Like, why would that be a controversial statement?

01:50:38.800 I'm honestly confused.

01:50:40.400 So am I.

01:50:42.040 I am honestly confused by that.

01:50:45.040 And I'm confused by people attacking the parents who say,

01:50:52.360 my child is different since they received the vaccine.

01:50:57.820 It's very strange for other people to say, you are crazy.

01:51:05.860 How dare you say that?

01:51:07.440 How dare you blame the vaccine?

01:51:10.200 And these are parents who said, oh, I'm just telling you my experience.

01:51:15.160 My experience was my child was hitting developmental markers.

01:51:19.060 My child was, was hitting milestones and then they got the vaccine and everything changed.

01:51:27.020 Why are we yelling at those parents?

01:51:30.200 Why are, I, I, that's, that's what I really don't understand either.

01:51:33.360 Or why are, when did that start?

01:51:39.900 You know, I don't know anyone like that just because I shield myself from anyone who would even,

01:51:45.020 even gives a hint of having those attitudes because I can't deal with it.

01:51:49.400 So I don't, I don't, I don't know the answer, but you're, I mean, you know a lot of these people personally.

01:51:53.460 Like, what do you think the answer is?

01:52:01.000 There's something about vaccines that they've made.

01:52:06.960 People have made very political in a way that's hard to understand because it's,

01:52:12.820 if you're talking about cancer or you're talking about, you know, different,

01:52:18.340 different ways to treat cancer, people don't get upset about it.

01:52:22.520 That's right.

01:52:23.180 People don't yell at you about it.

01:52:25.040 They don't say-

01:52:25.160 You're not taking chemo, just radiation?

01:52:26.980 Damn you!

01:52:27.820 Right.

01:52:29.300 So there's something about the mindset of people.

01:52:33.920 The mindset of some people is you are putting everybody in danger if you don't get vaccinated.

01:52:45.100 And once again, it goes back to what you said.

01:52:47.860 Well, if you have the vaccine, you should feel pretty good that you're not going to get it

01:52:51.180 because that's why you got the vaccine.

01:52:52.680 Right.

01:52:53.200 But-

01:52:54.300 It's like yelling at me for not wearing a seatbelt.

01:52:56.840 Right.

01:52:57.260 What does that have to do with you?

01:52:58.340 Right.

01:52:59.480 And somehow it's, I don't, I really don't understand it.

01:53:04.920 I don't understand.

01:53:06.080 I don't understand how when people got mad at other people, also women turning on each other,

01:53:13.180 I find motherhood is challenging enough, parenthood.

01:53:21.140 And if another mother is telling me, wow, this is what happened.

01:53:28.500 This was my experience with me and my child.

01:53:32.240 Why would I be judging that person?

01:53:36.960 Because I did, because I think she's lying to me.

01:53:39.560 Why would she be lying?

01:53:40.760 Who's lying about this?

01:53:42.280 Why does, why, what, why would somebody lie about it?

01:53:45.520 It doesn't make sense to me.

01:53:46.680 No, it doesn't.

01:53:47.120 They're not, nobody's gaining anything by sharing their story.

01:53:53.160 So it's, I don't know why they're so mad about vaccines.

01:53:58.020 There's some people are worried that if you, if you question the safety or if you, like

01:54:06.240 I said, on the view, I said, you know, can we do better?

01:54:10.280 Can we make them safer?

01:54:11.920 So there aren't as many injuries.

01:54:13.920 There are a lot of injuries.

01:54:15.320 A lot.

01:54:16.060 Boy, there's the vaccine injury compensation program that's paid out $5.4 billion.

01:54:23.520 That's what I told him on the view and no response.

01:54:25.880 Like nobody said anything like, oh, wow.

01:54:29.320 I mean, no, Whoopi asked me if it was just COVID.

01:54:32.060 I said, no, I, I think it was for all vaccines, but can we just look at that without thinking

01:54:38.900 about it in a political way and say, oh, well, people are, people are being paid, compensated

01:54:46.860 for vaccine injuries.

01:54:48.320 There's a whole service set up for it.

01:54:51.460 Can we just say, can we, can both sides agree?

01:54:55.740 Oh, I, you're right.

01:54:58.000 Somebody has been injured by it.

01:55:00.760 They proved it in court.

01:55:04.080 So can we start there?

01:55:05.600 It's like you're saying, can we just start at one place where we all agree on something

01:55:09.080 and then say, well, can we do a vaccine where less people are injured?

01:55:17.500 Yeah.

01:55:18.320 Why is that?

01:55:19.200 Same vaccine, fewer deaths.

01:55:21.760 Yeah.

01:55:22.700 Is that crazy?

01:55:24.480 Why is that, why is that, why does that make people mad?

01:55:28.660 I don't know.

01:55:29.600 I really don't know.

01:55:30.440 You really don't.

01:55:31.080 It does seem, I mean, I'm trying to, I've thought about this for years, ever since your

01:55:40.300 husband kind of blew up this topic.

01:55:42.180 I've been thinking about it many years ago when he wrote that Rolling Stone piece, 15,

01:55:46.900 20 years ago.

01:55:47.560 And I knew him and I, and I admired him as a writer.

01:55:51.360 He's a great writer.

01:55:52.740 And in addition to other things, and I watched him just like literally end his career and

01:55:57.680 all these friendships and Bobby Kennedy was like, he's a Kennedy.

01:56:00.700 That's so cool.

01:56:02.120 It went from that to Bobby Kennedy's name may not be spoken because he criticized vaccines.

01:56:07.120 And I've been trying to figure out what that's about ever since.

01:56:10.220 Yeah.

01:56:10.320 What do you think it's about?

01:56:11.520 I think there's a spiritual element to it.

01:56:14.540 I think there's a, this is a religion.

01:56:16.420 This is not rational.

01:56:17.380 That's the first thing I noticed.

01:56:18.620 Second, this is longstanding.

01:56:20.840 Diego Rivera, the communist Mexican muralist wrote, or drew, painted a fairly famous mural

01:56:28.560 of a child getting vaccines.

01:56:31.200 And it looks like the kind of classic Christian Christmas image of Jesus in the manger, but

01:56:36.660 instead of a cross, it's vaccines.

01:56:39.100 And that was painted in the thirties.

01:56:41.340 It was like a WPA program or something.

01:56:43.920 You can look it up on the internet.

01:56:44.860 It's really interesting for what it reveals of, of the mindset around vaccines, but it's

01:56:50.380 like a ritual.

01:56:52.200 This is not, because again, it's not a question about like, what's the most effective oncology,

01:56:58.020 right?

01:56:58.520 Right.

01:56:58.800 It's way deeper and like pre-rational.

01:57:04.040 So that's religion.

01:57:04.940 That's not science.

01:57:05.600 That's religion.

01:57:06.180 Well, it's interesting when you're talking about it that way.

01:57:08.580 It is interesting because it's probably the, the only thing that people are asked to do

01:57:20.440 as a group, regardless of who you are, regardless of what your religion, what your, um, health

01:57:32.240 is, you're asked to take the vaccine and don't ask questions.

01:57:40.840 Yes.

01:57:42.900 So I guess maybe that's where it started, right?

01:57:49.380 They had, they had to convince people that no, this is for everybody and you can't ask

01:57:53.480 questions.

01:57:54.660 Everybody's doing it.

01:57:56.760 Just everybody's doing it.

01:57:58.560 That's all you need to know.

01:58:00.880 Well, yeah, but I mean, for sure.

01:58:03.760 People used to burn widows, you know, or, or whatever, you know, people had all kinds of

01:58:09.760 ugly primitive rituals that they were ultimately talked out of that were once compulsory, which

01:58:15.220 are now reviled.

01:58:16.000 Like, I get it, but this one has been the same for 90 years.

01:58:20.620 Like there's something piercing the skin, injecting something into somebody.

01:58:27.260 I mean, there's a control element, but there's also a ritualistic component to this.

01:58:32.600 That's so crazy.

01:58:34.360 Go look up the Diego Rivera.

01:58:36.800 And I hope I'm not screwing this up, but I don't think that I am mural.

01:58:39.940 I mean, it's wild.

01:58:42.080 Like he just lays it out there.

01:58:43.640 Like this is your new religion vaccines.

01:58:46.000 There's the baby Jesus getting needles in him.

01:58:48.260 It's so crazy.

01:58:49.400 Right.

01:58:49.780 I mean, there's like ritual bloodletting.

01:58:51.940 I mean, look, I've arrived at this over many years of thinking about it because I can't

01:58:56.540 think of another explanation.

01:58:59.500 It is really hard.

01:59:00.700 I mean, yeah, don't, don't question it.

01:59:04.420 Authority.

01:59:05.120 Definitely.

01:59:05.560 And then punish the guy's relatives who questions it.

01:59:08.780 That part.

01:59:10.120 There is that part.

01:59:12.420 But the other thing too, that I, I have a hard time understanding that.

01:59:19.400 The people that are saying that, you know, vaccines were tested however long ago, 40 years ago,

01:59:31.440 20 years ago, and they were tested to be fine.

01:59:33.940 Yeah.

01:59:34.420 So stop asking questions about it.

01:59:39.220 There are drugs on the market all the time that are approved.

01:59:44.940 Then 10 years later, 20 years later, you see a lot of people have been injured and they pull the drug

01:59:51.680 because they're like, this is not working.

01:59:54.860 I mean, they used to x-ray women when they were pregnant at, in the fifties.

01:59:59.880 Because they thought it was a great, you know, new technology to...

02:00:06.880 Nilla wafers were considered a health food when I was a kid because they had weed in them.

02:00:12.900 Because they had weed in them.

02:00:14.140 Remember smoking?

02:00:14.940 Like your parents would be in a car with the windows rolled up and smoking.

02:00:18.720 100%.

02:00:19.160 But they didn't know that at the time that they were harmful or causing cancer to the kids in the bag.

02:00:26.040 No, it's delicious.

02:00:26.860 And then at some point, you know, there's a stop down.

02:00:32.980 People say, oh, we just learned that this is not good for you.

02:00:38.680 That you shouldn't be taking this.

02:00:40.360 That this drug isn't working.

02:00:42.200 That you learn things all the time.

02:00:44.500 And everybody stops down and makes a new choice, right?

02:00:48.700 And says, oh, okay, yeah, I'm going to stop using that.

02:00:51.840 So it happens all the time.

02:00:53.440 So for people to say it can absolutely not happen with vaccines, there's no way, there's no way to make them better or to, because they're great already.

02:01:06.860 It's like so strange.

02:01:09.240 No, no, but it's a religious concept.

02:01:12.080 Not one word can be added or deleted.

02:01:15.900 It's perfect.

02:01:17.100 It's holy writ.

02:01:18.320 It cannot be changed.

02:01:19.440 It came from God himself.

02:01:20.980 These are the tablets right here.

02:01:22.580 I mean, this is, I know it's hard.

02:01:27.740 Meditate on this.

02:01:28.640 I know.

02:01:29.020 I'm going to think about this.

02:01:30.420 No, I have never connected.

02:01:32.480 So I've met very few people who've had a life with the trajectory that yours has had.

02:01:36.840 I don't even, it's not really an arc.

02:01:38.480 It's more like, as you described, a hairpin turn in this direction.

02:01:42.080 The last, you know, so you grew up in one world and are a completely different world.

02:01:46.860 Rise to the top of that world.

02:01:48.100 And then all of a sudden you're in a completely different world.

02:01:51.220 Yeah.

02:01:52.580 Like, what are the conclusions you draw from this?

02:01:55.260 What have you learned?

02:01:58.540 And it's still ongoing, by the way.

02:02:00.300 So I can't, I don't expect.

02:02:02.200 So watch what you say.

02:02:03.500 No, you know what I've, I've learned of, I mean, I've learned a lot of things, of course.

02:02:07.200 Yeah.

02:02:07.360 I've learned, um, and I always felt like I knew what really matters.

02:02:13.840 My family has always been the most important thing to me.

02:02:18.960 That's why the best thing about getting married is that you get to pick a family member.

02:02:26.740 It's the only time in your life where you get to pick, pick somebody to be a part of your family.

02:02:31.800 And that's pretty amazing.

02:02:35.360 Uh, I learned that that is really the only thing that matters.

02:02:39.060 Yes.

02:02:39.500 It's your family.

02:02:40.260 So for me, I mean, there have been times with Bobby that when I get frustrated and I feel like,

02:02:49.260 I can't believe you said that or said it like that.

02:02:53.700 And I'm like, why would you do that?

02:02:55.680 Um, and it doesn't matter so little in the big scheme of things.

02:03:02.560 Yes.

02:03:03.380 What matters is how you love people.

02:03:08.560 And I think too, how you receive love.

02:03:13.220 So even some of my friendships that have, that did not survive this, right?

02:03:19.780 It's too emotional, it's too emotional for them to be friends with me because of what Bobby does.

02:03:29.580 Um, I have learned to, you know, it's, that's okay.

02:03:35.740 And I can still love who they are and what we had together.

02:03:41.560 I don't have to spend time missing it or being sad or whatever that is.

02:03:52.600 I can step back and say, oh, that person was the right time, the right person at the right time.

02:03:59.880 And I loved what, what we had.

02:04:03.080 Yes.

02:04:03.840 And I, and I'm not angry or sad about it.

02:04:08.220 And, and, and at the same time, you know, I just turned 60 and I'm at a place where I really have learned a lot just in terms of learning brand new things in my life that I never thought I would.

02:04:27.880 I, I, and it's not, this isn't like we talked about politics.

02:04:32.560 I never set out to, I can't wait to learn a lot about politics, but I did, you know, even in the election, I learned a lot about, um, how to run a campaign, what it looks like from the inside of a presidential campaign.

02:04:53.200 Um, you learn about press and, um, and rumors.

02:05:03.260 And if somebody says something enough times, then it becomes the truth to people.

02:05:10.640 So you, I learned all of that.

02:05:14.920 And even when Bobby, even when Bobby switched to being, um, an independent, just learning every state, you have to have a certain amount of signatures from different people and you turn them in at different times in the calendar year.

02:05:35.660 So even learning that stuff, which I never wanted to learn, but I know it now, um, fascinating to me that now being in DC and now being, being sitting where I am and seeing what I see and being around the people that I, I'm around, I can say that the people in, in the cabinet, people in the administration.

02:06:05.660 I really want what's best for this country.

02:06:10.940 And it may sound silly that I didn't recognize that before because I felt like, well, I'm sure there are people that are in it for themselves and that want, you know, but where I see it, that is not the case.

02:06:34.060 The case is that everybody sits at the table and they say, what can we do to make the country better, to work together.

02:06:42.520 And that was, that's interesting to me.

02:06:47.640 And I keep, I keep, I keep, I keep, I'm learning more now about politics, about, uh, how things, what has to happen to change a law or to, or to get something done in DC or to, um, make a change in the nation.

02:07:10.980 And I'm learning all these, you know, sort of big concepts that I otherwise would not have thought about.

02:07:19.480 Um, and I, and I find it fascinating.

02:07:24.660 I find the people that I'm sitting next to at dinner, fascinating.

02:07:29.280 They're smart and they have hard jobs, very difficult jobs.

02:07:33.700 Yes.

02:07:34.500 And I think a lot of people, you know, people, people maybe in LA that sit around and say, oh, I could do it so much better.

02:07:44.360 It's like, I don't think so.

02:07:46.640 Otherwise you'd be doing it.

02:07:48.120 How long were you in LA?

02:07:56.100 Over 30.

02:07:57.140 Yeah.

02:07:57.380 Over 30 years.

02:07:59.720 I mean, it just seems to me that given how fast everything is changing, you're so blessed to be in part doing something different, learning new things.

02:08:10.500 I agree with that.

02:08:11.300 Yeah.

02:08:11.420 And I mean, sometimes the, what we think are tragedies turn out to be like the greatest blessings.

02:08:18.520 And I mean, I don't know, you're still interested in stuff, which is pretty great at 60.

02:08:24.820 Yeah.

02:08:25.840 Listen, I have a lot of friends who, their kids have grown up and moved out and now they're bored and they're trying to figure out how to fill the day.

02:08:35.900 Yes.

02:08:36.840 I don't have that.

02:08:37.820 And the business they were in is dying or changing really fast in any case.

02:08:41.500 Really hard.

02:08:41.840 Yeah.

02:08:42.240 It's very, the entertainment industry is really a tough place to be in right now.

02:08:47.900 So, yeah, I'm like, I find it fascinating.

02:08:54.840 And maybe because, because I have been in the, the entertainment industry and, you know, I mean, there are a lot of films, TV shows about politics and politicians because it's fascinating.

02:09:11.300 And so, we like to watch it.

02:09:14.920 We like to watch it play out on the screen, but then to now be in the middle of it, seeing it, it's pretty great.

02:09:26.760 I love that.

02:09:28.940 Cheryl Hines, you're a deep person and I'm grateful that you came.

02:09:32.540 Thank you, Tucker.

02:09:33.280 I really like talking to you all.

02:09:34.740 Thank you.

02:09:34.860 Thank you.

02:09:35.300 Thank you.

02:09:35.920 Thank you.

02:09:36.040 Thank you.

02:09:36.220 Thank you.

02:09:37.020 Thank you.

02:09:37.160 Thank you.

02:09:37.300 Thank you.

02:09:37.600 Thank you.

02:09:41.760 We've got a new website we hope you will visit.

02:09:44.440 It's called newcommissionnow.com and it refers to a new 9-11 commission.

02:09:51.100 So, we spent months putting together our 9-11 documentary series.

02:09:55.280 And if there's one thing we learned, it's that, in fact, there was foreknowledge of the attacks.

02:10:01.960 People knew.

02:10:03.400 The American public deserves to know.

02:10:05.500 We're shocked, actually, to learn that, to have that confirmed, but it's true.

02:10:08.220 The evidence is overwhelming.

02:10:09.180 The CIA, for example, knew the hijackers were here in the United States.

02:10:12.880 They knew they were planning an act of terror.

02:10:15.180 In his passport is a visa to go to the United States of America.

02:10:19.500 A foreign national was caught celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote, to document the event.

02:10:27.500 I didn't know there would be an event to document in the first place because he had foreknowledge.

02:10:31.020 And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor, shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on 9-11, as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks.

02:10:45.260 They made money on the 9-11 attacks because they knew they were coming.

02:10:50.120 Who did that?

02:10:51.120 You have to look at the evidence.

02:10:53.020 The U.S. government learned the name of that investor, but never released it.

02:10:59.640 Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this, but there isn't, actually.

02:11:03.740 And by the way, it doesn't matter whether there is or not.

02:11:06.120 The public deserves to know what the hell that was.

02:11:09.500 How did people know ahead of time why was no one ever punished for it?

02:11:13.320 The 9-11 Commission, the original one, was a fraud.

02:11:16.740 It was fake.

02:11:18.380 Its conclusions were written before the investigation.

02:11:21.060 That's true.

02:11:22.020 And it's outrageous.

02:11:23.760 This country needs a new 9-11 Commission, one that actually tells the truth, that tries to get to the bottom of the story.

02:11:30.700 We can't just move on like nothing happened.

02:11:33.180 9-11 Commission is a cover.

02:11:36.100 Something did happen.

02:11:37.360 We need to force a new investigation into 9-11 almost 25 years later.

02:11:43.480 Sorry, justice demands it.

02:11:45.700 And if you want that, go to newcommissionnow.com to add your name to our petition.

02:11:51.440 We're not getting paid for this.

02:11:52.480 We're doing this because we really mean it.

02:11:54.560 Newcommissionnow.com.

The Tucker Carlson Show - October 24, 2025

Cheryl Hines： Stories From “Curb Your Enthusiasm” and Sticking by RFK on His Way to the White House

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