The Tucker Carlson Show - Chris Cella： Opioids, Robbing the Mafia, Burning Down the Entourage House, and How God Saved Him

00:00:00.000 You pepper sprayed a member of the Mexican mafia and stole his heroin. 0.99

00:00:03.280 I sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and put something to his throat. 0.99

00:00:07.180 Don't move.

00:00:08.140 It was making me tense, man, just telling me this story.

00:00:10.240 And he had girls in his halfway houses that he was giving heroin, giving crack and pimping them out and then sending them back to treatment where they would ultimately fail their drug test and have to go to detox.

00:00:23.880 And guess who gets a kickback from the detox center?

00:00:26.980 No way.

00:00:27.820 It's a revolving door of suffering and just pain for the addict.

00:00:31.920 But they're making money at every stop. 0.95

00:00:34.340 This is disgusting. 0.53

00:00:35.760 And then she pulls out a handgun. 0.99

00:00:37.320 Oh, my God.

00:00:38.560 She's like, what the are you doing in my house?

00:00:40.560 My kids are in there.

00:00:41.560 And I'm like, oh, my God, you have kids. 1.00

00:00:43.700 If you have your kids sleeping in there, you're kind of a shitty mom. 1.00

00:00:46.640 So you insult the lady with the gun pointed at you. 1.00

00:00:49.040 Yes, because. 0.99

00:00:49.580 You got balls. 0.99

00:00:50.140 I'll say that. 0.98

00:00:57.820 Thanks for doing this, Chris.

00:01:13.540 How long were you addicted to opioids?

00:01:16.160 So I was addicted to opioids from the age of 15 to 23.

00:01:20.000 Kind of on and off, you know, in and out of rehab for those eight years.

00:01:23.700 But yeah.

00:01:24.640 15 to 23.

00:01:26.120 How did you grow up?

00:01:27.400 So I grew up in, I was born in Dallas, grew up in South Orange County, moved there when

00:01:31.520 I was five, kind of bounced around, but all in kind of relatively the same area.

00:01:36.660 Southern California.

00:01:37.420 Yeah.

00:01:37.660 Yeah.

00:01:37.900 Yeah.

00:01:38.060 Southern California, Orange County.

00:01:40.800 And my sister or my family, you know, addiction kind of just runs in my family.

00:01:46.540 Like my.

00:01:47.140 As it does many.

00:01:48.180 Yeah.

00:01:48.840 Right.

00:01:49.120 I, you know, I do believe it is.

00:01:50.400 There is a genetic component to, you know, kind of the addictive personality.

00:01:55.100 You know, absolutely.

00:01:55.980 A hundred percent.

00:01:56.340 You think?

00:01:58.580 How much, how much alcoholism is there in Israel?

00:02:01.960 How much alcoholism is there in Sweden?

00:02:04.380 You know, it's a big difference.

00:02:05.980 Yeah, exactly.

00:02:07.140 Exactly.

00:02:07.720 So, you know, my, so, so growing up, my dad was, he was a general counsel at an oil company

00:02:15.640 in Texas.

00:02:16.040 So he was traveling a lot and he was also a heavy drinker.

00:02:20.480 He would, he is not the type of person who like needed to wake up and, you know, drink

00:02:24.160 in the morning to function, but he would go on benders, you know, for days, weeks at a

00:02:28.720 time.

00:02:29.060 And, and then my, my mom, she was a long distance runner and she had a diving accident that left

00:02:38.160 her.

00:02:38.380 Basically, she was a victim of big pharma's push in the early to mid nineties for Oxycontin

00:02:45.680 and then eventually fentanyl. 0.93

00:02:48.740 And, you know, this little pathetic pill pushing quack is, you know, giving her just massive 0.98

00:02:52.900 amounts of Oxycontin. 0.98

00:02:54.040 And she liked the way she, she hated the way it felt.

00:02:57.040 And she, she's like, I don't like this.

00:03:00.040 You know, it's making me like comatose.

00:03:01.940 And the doctor's like, well, you need to keep taking it.

00:03:04.040 And so she, she decided to flush them down the toilet once.

00:03:06.840 And, uh, and she went into excruciating withdrawal and, uh, you know, I'll touch more on withdrawal

00:03:12.720 later, but, uh, it's, yeah, she, so she.

00:03:15.600 Were your parents married?

00:03:16.800 Yes, yes, yes.

00:03:17.980 They were married.

00:03:18.320 So your dad's the general counsel of a big company.

00:03:20.580 Your mom's a distance runner. 0.98

00:03:22.160 So these are like competent people who've got their act together.

00:03:25.500 These are not like, this is not the junkie profile.

00:03:28.300 Yeah, yeah, no, yeah.

00:03:28.900 Like my father, he was, um, he graduated, uh, college at, um, 19, um, and he went to

00:03:36.080 Columbia Law School.

00:03:37.060 I mean, you know, so.

00:03:38.260 Oh, wow.

00:03:38.740 Yeah.

00:03:38.900 Okay.

00:03:39.420 I'm sorry.

00:03:40.060 Cause I think that, I think it's important to set this in a socioeconomic frame.

00:03:44.980 Yeah.

00:03:45.160 Cause there's, yeah.

00:03:46.140 Addiction does not, uh, you know, it does not, it doesn't matter whether you're rich,

00:03:50.380 poor, black, white, whatever, you know, it's indiscriminatory, indiscriminatory.

00:03:54.580 So.

00:03:54.780 Yeah, that's true.

00:03:56.200 Uh, so yeah, my, uh.

00:03:57.860 So this doctor keeps pushing opioids on your mom. 1.00

00:04:01.060 Yes.

00:04:02.080 And by the way, to be a distance runner, um, I admire that, but it suggests like true

00:04:08.900 self-discipline, uh, high level of awareness of your body.

00:04:13.880 I mean, who's a distance runner, you know, only people who are very, very into fitness

00:04:19.520 and very, very kind of like battened down people.

00:04:23.100 Right.

00:04:23.500 Correct?

00:04:24.040 Yeah.

00:04:24.340 Yeah.

00:04:24.600 No, my mom was absolutely, you know, one of the most disciplined, um, people that I've

00:04:31.200 ever met.

00:04:31.680 Well, you kind of have to be.

00:04:32.800 Yeah.

00:04:32.860 Yeah.

00:04:33.180 And I mean, a lot of long distance running to me is absolutely, sounds like torture.

00:04:37.340 Well, it's torture.

00:04:37.640 It is torture.

00:04:38.300 Yeah.

00:04:38.400 But it's highly impressive.

00:04:39.720 Yeah.

00:04:39.900 No, it is.

00:04:40.420 Absolutely.

00:04:40.980 And, um, so, you know, she had these multiple surgeries that only exacerbated the issue and 0.98

00:04:46.520 a neck injury.

00:04:47.580 Yeah.

00:04:47.900 A neck injury that she got from, it wasn't related to her long distance running, but it

00:04:51.520 was a diving, diving incident.

00:04:53.820 She hit her neck on the diving board.

00:04:55.920 And, um, and, uh, so yeah, this guy's first, she's pushing, uh, Oxycontin on her and then

00:05:02.620 he says, okay, well, let's try something different.

00:05:04.340 It might be less, um, like, you know, less addictive possibly, you know, cause fentanyl

00:05:09.360 was brand new and, uh, you know, might, might make you feel a little bit better to where

00:05:13.980 you can function throughout the day.

00:05:15.320 So he puts her on fentanyl and fentanyl is so powerful.

00:05:19.140 No, no, it's, I mean, it's, it's, yeah.

00:05:21.140 You have to laugh.

00:05:21.860 Otherwise you'll cry because it's like fentanyl is the most, so powerful that it has to be

00:05:26.300 administered in micrograms.

00:05:28.020 Yeah.

00:05:28.200 Like, you know, like the 25 micrograms, whereas most drugs are administered in milligrams.

00:05:32.980 So like that just shows you how potent.

00:05:35.420 How many kids does your mom have? 1.00

00:05:37.120 Uh, three.

00:05:38.360 So she's got three kids.

00:05:39.600 She's married to a general counsel of a company.

00:05:41.020 She lives in Southern California.

00:05:42.280 She's a distance runner. 0.93

00:05:43.240 All of a sudden she's on fentanyl.

00:05:45.600 Yeah.

00:05:46.380 Oh no, she, well, uh, she was living in Dallas when she became, uh, uh, addicted to the

00:05:51.120 fentanyl, uh, or addicted to the oxy at least.

00:05:53.980 Um, uh, and then when we moved to Southern California, we moved to Southern California.

00:05:57.940 My dad started his own practice with his brother.

00:06:00.220 Um, they were both lawyers.

00:06:01.540 So, um, and then, uh, yeah, so my sister and then my sister, she had, um, a serious, um, 0.63

00:06:11.760 uh, issue with bulimia and anorexia from the age of 10 to 28.

00:06:15.740 Uh, like so serious that, you know, her potassium levels were so low that ambulances at our home

00:06:22.280 were like a regular occurrence.

00:06:23.820 And there was multiple times when they said, you know, your daughter might make it, not,

00:06:27.760 might, might not make it to, you know, to my father.

00:06:29.680 And so witnessing all of this at a very young age, and again, I'm not trying, again,

00:06:34.120 I just want to like preface, this is not an excuse for my actions.

00:06:37.300 Like I own everything that I did and all the terrible things that I did was not, but I

00:06:41.340 think that the chaos that I had, that I, you know, basically I didn't have this, the necessary

00:06:47.720 things like structure and discipline that I think are so important for everyone, but

00:06:53.860 especially for people with addictive, uh, addictive personalities to, um, to have that,

00:06:58.860 you know, that rigid kind of, I'm going to wake up, I'm going to make my bed, I'm going

00:07:01.940 to do this, I'm going to do that.

00:07:03.280 And, and so like my parents, I was never sure I knew my parents loved me.

00:07:06.960 Like my parents, they, um, I was never, you know, short on that, but they were so busy

00:07:12.740 trying to deal with my sister and, you know, and their own issue.

00:07:16.520 And my, my father, he's been clean, he's been off, he stopped drinking, he just cold, cold

00:07:20.780 turkey, stopped drinking for, it's been 25 years now.

00:07:24.160 Yeah.

00:07:24.420 Good man.

00:07:25.260 Um, yeah.

00:07:26.380 And, you know, he never went to AA or anything like that.

00:07:28.780 And so, so again, it's, it's, you know, um, addiction or, you know, treatment can be, uh,

00:07:34.500 as simple as, you know, going to therapy.

00:07:36.420 It doesn't have to include, you know, rehab and all these different things.

00:07:39.480 But, um, uh, so yeah, my, so my sister, your mom, uh, she, so she, um, eventually switched

00:07:49.360 over to Suboxone from fentanyl and then she weaned herself off of that.

00:07:54.160 So now she's, yeah, totally.

00:07:56.000 And Suboxone is a miracle drug.

00:07:57.860 I mean, compared to like the alternative, which is, um, methadone, which is so, so addictive.

00:08:03.500 It gets into your bone marrow.

00:08:04.820 I mean, the, the withdrawals from that, um, I've heard are much worse than, you know, your

00:08:11.460 average opiate or even heroin, um, just because it's, it's more drawn out and yeah, terrible.

00:08:19.880 What a nightmare.

00:08:21.080 Um, so she got better.

00:08:23.920 Yes.

00:08:25.080 And your dad got better, but you grew up in an environment where there was a lot of this

00:08:28.600 going on.

00:08:29.180 Yeah.

00:08:29.420 And, um, so yeah, and lacking that structure, it made me, you know, I think it led to a sense

00:08:36.360 of low self-esteem and the constant need for the approval of others.

00:08:42.480 Like I look back now and I'm like, you know, why the fuck do I, did I care so much about 0.93

00:08:47.420 what other people thought? 0.87

00:08:48.640 Yeah.

00:08:48.880 And it's, I guess, you know, I can't, you know, but after years of therapy, they've kind

00:08:55.440 of pinpointed as to like, you know, you know, your quote unquote inner child didn't get enough

00:08:59.660 emotional nourishment, so to speak.

00:09:01.900 And so, yeah, you know, I was so constantly trying desperately to fit in.

00:09:07.080 So, you know, when I got into, uh, middle school, high school, um, and, you know, I

00:09:11.840 was, you know, uh, honor roll student, um, very, very, you know, I was, I was very, um,

00:09:18.320 you know, I have a high IQ.

00:09:19.520 I was blessed with that.

00:09:20.740 But, uh, once I got into like college where you actually have to start kind of trying a

00:09:24.980 little bit like algebra two and whatnot, I was like, uh, you know, cause I started hanging

00:09:29.760 out with kids who were smoking weed, drinking and smoking cigarettes.

00:09:33.500 So not that I necessarily wanted to smoke weed, drink and smoke cigarettes, but that's

00:09:38.600 what they were doing.

00:09:39.720 So I wanted, you know, I wanted their approval.

00:09:42.100 I wanted to fit in.

00:09:43.200 I wanted to be a part of the cool crowd.

00:09:45.040 And so I started drinking, you know, smoking cigarettes and smoking weed.

00:09:48.640 And, uh, so that went on for, you know, I, I quit the wrestling team.

00:09:53.640 I, uh, you know, I pretty much abandoned everything that, you know, was positive, you know, all

00:09:59.540 the positive things that I was doing for my life and just kind of became a stoner.

00:10:04.640 And, um, and, you know, I know a lot of kids who were potheads in high school, you know,

00:10:09.000 that I'm friends with that are more successful than I today.

00:10:11.780 So I'm not, you know, trashing them at all.

00:10:13.400 But I mean, then what happened was it progressed to the, cause I was in, you know, advanced

00:10:21.160 placement classes.

00:10:22.100 So I was in like algebra two as a sophomore where, you know, I was, it was mostly juniors

00:10:26.880 and seniors in the class.

00:10:28.020 And so I started hanging out with the juniors and seniors and they were doing, uh, it's called,

00:10:34.700 uh, oxymorphone or opana, opana.

00:10:37.700 Um, they were, you know, snorting that, taking Xanax pills, stuff like that.

00:10:41.480 And, um, and my stoner buddies, where were they getting the pills?

00:10:45.240 So, uh, they were getting them.

00:10:47.060 There was pretty much, we had like one source and he was, uh, a guy that just, uh, lived

00:10:52.300 in down the street in an apartment complex.

00:10:54.720 Um, it's always a guy in an apartment complex, isn't it?

00:10:57.500 Yeah, for sure.

00:10:58.300 I've been to those apartment complexes.

00:10:59.760 And he, he, um, his grandmother was getting prescription, getting these prescription drugs

00:11:05.740 and just had like a boatload of them.

00:11:08.200 So, you know, he would sell them for 60 bucks a pop, um, and, you know, we would buy them.

00:11:15.060 Uh, but eventually, you know, that it becomes too expensive.

00:11:19.320 The pill habit becomes too expensive.

00:11:20.780 And that's why so many people transition to heroin.

00:11:23.840 Um, but you know, my, even my stoner friends were like, Hey, you should like, you should try

00:11:28.000 to steer clear of those guys over there.

00:11:29.440 And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm going to take your heaping loads of moral condemnation stoner.

00:11:33.740 But, but in reality, it's like when the potheads are telling you that to stay away from these

00:11:39.000 kids, you know, they're bad.

00:11:40.880 No, no, that's right.

00:11:41.720 Like, yeah.

00:11:42.800 And, uh, so, you know, of course, you know, my, again, that low self-esteem, that desire

00:11:48.480 to fit in started using, um, pills and opiates in particular.

00:11:54.020 They took away that feeling of that, like that low self-worth.

00:12:00.880 I felt, I was confident.

00:12:03.140 I, you know, I felt great at the beginning, in the beginning, in the very early stages

00:12:07.860 of my addiction.

00:12:08.440 So like the first, you know, two, three months.

00:12:10.840 And I had a job.

00:12:12.120 Um, I was a telemarketer at a, uh, golf club selling quote unquote custom made, made clubs.

00:12:18.080 They're literally made in a warehouse underneath the call center by illegals. 1.00

00:12:21.980 And they're, it was either graphite or steel, and they might, uh, give you extra grips on

00:12:26.200 the clubs.

00:12:26.580 That's the extent of the quote unquote customization.

00:12:29.800 Yeah.

00:12:30.280 But comparable to the tailor-made R11, you know, okay.

00:12:33.260 Yeah.

00:12:33.400 Right.

00:12:34.260 So you're selling custom, faux custom-made golf clubs from a call center.

00:12:39.840 Yeah.

00:12:40.620 And, and, uh, you know, go in the car, do a line of Opana and come back in and it's just

00:12:46.580 like, oh my gosh, you know, I have more confidence and I'm pushing, pushing harder on the sales

00:12:51.140 and things like, and, and, and my sales numbers are going up.

00:12:54.060 So I'm like, why would I stop when this is like, I feel great about myself.

00:13:00.280 I'm performing better at work.

00:13:02.640 Yes.

00:13:03.060 Uh, so, you know, I saw it as like, there's like, there's no downside until.

00:13:08.040 Totally fair question.

00:13:09.600 And by the way, there have been a lot of, as you know, um, artists, jazz musicians, you

00:13:14.820 know, who used opioids because they thought it increased their, you know, ability to enhance

00:13:21.160 their performance.

00:13:22.180 Yeah.

00:13:22.380 And I think, you know, it, it, to an extent it can, but that is short lived.

00:13:27.180 It is not, you know, it's temporary because especially with opiates, they, again, they,

00:13:32.960 what they did, they literally, they erode your soul and you're eventually going to run out

00:13:38.340 of money and fine.

00:13:39.800 And you're going to have to get desperate.

00:13:41.660 And so, so what happened in your case, you started by doing a line in your car during

00:13:47.180 work.

00:13:47.860 Yeah.

00:13:48.380 And, and, and it kind of just progressed.

00:13:51.000 Um, you know, I was like doing like, you know, one, one pill, one 40 milligram pill every

00:13:55.920 couple of days to two every couple of days to, you know, and just going up and up and the

00:14:01.620 cost was getting too expensive.

00:14:04.780 Um, what, why did you use more?

00:14:07.380 You developed a tolerance?

00:14:09.220 Yeah.

00:14:09.460 Yeah.

00:14:09.740 Yeah.

00:14:09.900 You, you, you quickly develop a tolerance and, uh, yeah.

00:14:14.240 And you just need more and more to get to that because you're always chasing that first

00:14:17.940 high there.

00:14:18.560 You know, you're never going to get it again, but that's what like, you know, the chasing

00:14:21.880 the dragon, um, you're always trying to get to that level, but you're never going to get

00:14:27.040 there.

00:14:27.300 Right.

00:14:27.740 No, I think it's, I'm, yeah.

00:14:29.700 I mean, I think every childhood weed smoker remembers that first time when you just like

00:14:35.540 burst into laughter hysterically with your buddies and it's like the funnest, funniest thing that's

00:14:39.660 ever happened in your life.

00:14:40.800 And it's like, it's true.

00:14:41.580 It is fun.

00:14:42.120 I mean, that's truly fun, but that doesn't ever happen again.

00:14:45.540 Yeah.

00:14:45.720 No, it's, and, and you, you, you're so desperate to try to get back there.

00:14:49.920 And, and that kind of, you know, the whole, like, you know, addiction makes you insane.

00:14:53.920 It's like, you know, you're never really going to get back there, but you're still trying.

00:14:58.300 And, uh, so. 0.55

00:15:00.380 Addiction makes you insane.

00:15:01.760 That is true.

00:15:02.220 Yeah.

00:15:02.600 I mean, you know, like the definition of insanity, trying things over and over again, expecting

00:15:05.800 the different result, especially when you get into the point where you're like, you're

00:15:08.700 trying to get sober, um, and like, okay, yeah, this hasn't worked 15 times.

00:15:14.920 Maybe it'll work the 16th.

00:15:16.980 Why?

00:15:17.880 Um, and so, but yeah, so I was, yeah, so it progressed very quickly.

00:15:22.240 So you're in like 10th grade at this point?

00:15:24.120 Uh, yeah.

00:15:24.500 10th grade.

00:15:24.880 Yeah.

00:15:25.420 And, um, progressed within, I don't know, maybe like two, three months to

00:15:32.220 buying heroin, um, up in, you know, South Los Angeles.

00:15:36.600 And, uh.

00:15:37.540 What was that like?

00:15:39.660 Wild, dude.

00:15:40.660 Uh, so, uh, you know, basically what, what happened was when we met this guy, um, I think

00:15:46.840 he was at like the continuation school down the street from, uh, our high school.

00:15:50.640 And, um.

00:15:51.640 What's continuation school?

00:15:53.000 It's like, um, basically if you get like booted out of, um, you know, a regular high

00:15:58.220 school, it's kind of like, it's kind of like a way to get a, get a diploma without

00:16:03.380 having to get a GED, but like, it's like kind of like a, it's like a bootleg diploma.

00:16:09.740 Nice.

00:16:10.700 Um.

00:16:11.160 So some of the kids who've had a bumpy road are in the continuation school.

00:16:13.980 Yeah.

00:16:14.220 Yeah.

00:16:14.440 For sure.

00:16:15.540 For sure.

00:16:16.160 Yeah.

00:16:16.380 I mean, I mean, they even like, they like, even though there was like mostly kids under

00:16:20.960 the age of 18, they had a little smoking section at the school.

00:16:24.060 It was hilarious.

00:16:25.620 I grew up with that.

00:16:28.020 Yeah.

00:16:28.440 And I, yeah, I mean, I'm still a nicotine fiend.

00:16:30.760 I vape.

00:16:31.720 Um, but, uh, I quit smoking cigarettes.

00:16:33.920 I was like, you know, I was, and I was honestly, I was pretty impressed with myself that I was

00:16:39.420 able to do that because that was almost, I don't want to say almost as hard, but very

00:16:42.480 difficult and, you know, trying to get rid of that addiction, um, you know, compared to

00:16:47.760 my opiate addiction, but, you know, just.

00:16:49.100 I quit drinking and drugs at 33 and I quit cigarette smoking at 45.

00:16:56.120 So that tells you.

00:16:57.340 Right on.

00:16:57.760 Yeah.

00:16:58.000 Yeah.

00:16:58.340 Yeah.

00:16:59.320 It's, yeah, it's hard.

00:17:00.380 It's really a hard addiction to break and I'm still addicted to nicotine, you know?

00:17:04.320 Yeah.

00:17:04.620 Oh, me too.

00:17:05.900 But I'm enjoying it.

00:17:06.920 I will say, Chris.

00:17:08.240 Yeah.

00:17:08.540 Me too.

00:17:09.180 Yeah.

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00:19:37.420 Okay, so 10th grade, all of a sudden you go from, like, doing, like, bumps of some ground-up oxy-derivative pill at the golf sales place to driving to South Los Angeles.

00:19:53.800 I'm sorry, I stepped on your story.

00:19:55.060 You meet this kid from the continuation school, and he's your heroin connection.

00:19:58.720 Yeah, yeah.

00:19:59.280 What's he like?

00:20:02.240 Just some, just, like, slimy, just dirt bag.

00:20:08.980 I mean, I don't, yeah.

00:20:10.820 I mean, just, yeah, just some guy that, you know, we were only, the only reason we associated with him was because he had that connection.

00:20:18.900 And, yeah, not exactly, you know, he's the type of guy who would steal your wallet and help you look for it.

00:20:22.640 But, again, that's what most junkies are.

00:20:25.660 Was he using heroin, too?

00:20:27.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:28.400 He was, he was a big user, and he was actually, I found out he was ripping us off when I got a direct connection, and he was basically saying it was double the price for the amount, because you get, like, a, you get a little package with 12 balloons in it.

00:20:40.960 And it was $45, and he was saying it was $90, so he was able to, like, get to pocket one and give one to us.

00:20:48.660 So did you have to go with him to South LA?

00:20:51.420 Yeah, we would drive him.

00:20:52.680 He didn't have a car, so, you know, I would drive him in my 1998 Jeep, and we'd all just pile in there.

00:20:59.460 And this, the feds were watching, like, these, like, they literally, there was an article in the OC Register.

00:21:06.600 Um, I think it came out while I was in rehab, but, uh, basically, just kind of giving an overview of the whole thing.

00:21:16.160 The number you'd call, the guy's name was Boss, so you call his phone number, and, and this guy goes, all right, how, what do you want?

00:21:22.840 And you tell him how many packs you want, and then he's like, all right, meet, and it would be, like, one of three freeway exits, you know, right in that area.

00:21:30.300 And, like, always, like, a fast food parking lot, something like that, you know.

00:21:34.580 What, what town?

00:21:36.040 Uh, it was Southgate.

00:21:37.320 Boy, that's just depressing, that area.

00:21:39.720 So, so, yeah.

00:21:41.780 So you're meeting in, like, In-N-Out Burger or Wendy's or something?

00:21:45.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, just, yeah, some, yeah, we can just pull in real quick.

00:21:48.500 Um, and then, they'd, um, they, you'd meet the, they would always send a runner, and usually it was a different person, but, um, I started, you know, so, yeah, they'd meet you, they'd say, all right, you know, come into the car, that you'd get into the passenger seat, they'd reach into the, um, the air vent, pull it out, give you the, give you the dope, give them the money, boom.

00:22:10.080 And, uh.

00:22:10.460 You have to get into their car.

00:22:11.720 Yeah.

00:22:13.100 What were the guys like who were selling it?

00:22:15.180 Um, you know, this is, this is the kind of one of the craziest.

00:22:18.500 Easier things about this whole, this whole experience.

00:22:20.760 So, the runner that I had the most contact with, uh, he was, you know, he's a cool guy, just this little Hispanic guy, you know, I mean, obviously a gangbanger who would, you know, shoot you as soon as to look at you, but, um, he was very, you know, very nice to me, um, and, you know, he would give me discounts occasionally, and he actually, finally, he was like, hey, you know what, you no longer have to call boss, you can just, here, I'll give you my personal line, um, and you can just call me and then, you know, have to say, 0.97

00:22:48.480 save you the hassle of going through the whole, the whole process.

00:22:51.480 I was like, oh, cool, man, thanks.

00:22:53.200 And so, you know, we developed a kind of, you know, friendship, I guess, and, uh, it's probably the wildest story that I have.

00:23:01.600 So, we, uh, so my friends from South Orange County, again, very affluent, you know, um, I don't know if you've heard of, like, Nellie Gale in, in South Orange County.

00:23:10.000 It's like, uh, it's a, it's like one of the ritziest neighborhoods in the country.

00:23:14.820 Uh, it's got, like, horse trails running through it, you know, um, and, you know, the houses are, like, at a minimum, you know, $5 million.

00:23:21.240 Uh, so, yeah, it's a very nice area, very affluent area, and that's where pretty much all my friends lived.

00:23:27.520 And, uh, but, uh, this girl we knew, um, her uncle was, uh, he owned the house.

00:23:34.280 Have you seen the show Entourage?

00:23:35.380 Have you heard of it?

00:23:35.960 Yeah.

00:23:36.060 Uh, yeah, so, um, he owned the house that, um, at least, like, two seasons of the show were filmed in.

00:23:41.700 And she's like, yeah, we can go up there for the weekend.

00:23:43.880 I was like, oh, awesome.

00:23:45.500 And so, it's funny, we drive all the way to Beverly Hills, like, two and a half hour drive, and up this private road to this, you know, this beautiful mansion.

00:23:52.880 The door's locked, and she kind of lied or, you know, misled us about having permission to go to the house. 0.98

00:24:00.320 And so, I'm like, are you fucking kidding?

00:24:01.880 And, anyways, uh, excuse me, uh, so, I ended up finding, uh, I saw, like, a door-sized window, um, like, on the side of the house. 0.93

00:24:10.920 And so, I maneuvered my way up there, pushed on the door, and it just popped open.

00:24:15.180 And I was, like, waiting for an alarm to go off.

00:24:17.040 Like, okay.

00:24:18.740 And so, I walk in, open the front door, and we're in.

00:24:22.280 And, uh, and then I was like, oh, man, I really need some, some heroin, but I don't want to drive down to Southgate, you know.

00:24:28.460 Um, and so, I called the guy, and I was like, hey, man, we've got a huge mansion, you know, there's only, like, seven of us.

00:24:36.820 This is why you don't let your niece bust into your house with her junkie buddies. 1.00

00:24:41.380 We'll just wait.

00:24:42.820 Um, and I was like, yeah, you know, if you want to, if you can, you know, I know you don't typically do deliveries, but if you could bring me an order, you know, you're welcome to stay.

00:24:51.900 I mean, bring whomever you want.

00:24:54.020 So, he brings, like, two, two big, two big Mexican dudes, and, like, ten big booty Latina beautiful, beautiful chicks. 1.00

00:25:00.760 Like, yeah.

00:25:02.880 Um, and a candy dish with all these different pills, Valium, Xanax, uh, you know, Oxys, uh, just all that.

00:25:12.880 And at least an eight ball of Coke, a giant bag of Coke.

00:25:16.420 And that was, those were just party favors.

00:25:18.060 And he brought me my order, obviously.

00:25:19.640 Uh, but, uh, and so we spent the night partying, um, you know, hanging out in the indoor pool, you know, doing lines off of, you know, girls' stomachs.

00:25:31.400 And it was a wild, crazy time.

00:25:34.060 I mean, it was, like, literally, like, the show Entourage, but, like, junkie version.

00:25:38.560 Uh, it's just going on inside.

00:25:40.040 Unbelievable.

00:25:40.880 Yeah.

00:25:41.580 Uh.

00:25:42.100 Did the uncle ever come back?

00:25:43.920 Well, so, the next morning, and thank God.

00:25:47.680 Were you in high school at this point?

00:25:48.760 Yeah, I was, I was, um, 16, I think.

00:25:52.980 Um, it's, it's so, like, cause I was, I was going back and trying to, like, remember things.

00:25:57.580 And it's, like, some of it is so blurry that it's hard to, like, wait, when, how old was I?

00:26:02.480 And I have to, like, like.

00:26:03.620 Yes, I grew up in that area, so I know what you're talking about.

00:26:06.700 Um, and, uh, so, yeah.

00:26:10.660 The next morning, myself and a few other people leave.

00:26:14.900 And, and.

00:26:15.200 Did you sleep at all or just play through?

00:26:16.680 No, slept, no, I didn't sleep, didn't sleep for a second.

00:26:19.980 Um, and, yeah, left the next morning with a few of my buddies and, and the, the game bangers departed.

00:26:26.800 Um.

00:26:27.640 And the big booty Latina girls, too. 1.00

00:26:29.400 Yes, yes.

00:26:29.920 Okay.

00:26:30.120 They left as well.

00:26:31.200 Um, and, uh, so, you know, I go back to Orange County and, um, the next day, a police officer comes to our house.

00:26:41.740 And, um, it was, like, a female, um, investigator and she's, like, asking me questions.

00:26:47.720 Like, were you at this house and blah, blah, blah.

00:26:49.800 And I was, like, I was there on, she's, like, were you there, like, Saturday?

00:26:53.380 I was, like, no, I was there Friday.

00:26:55.460 I was, like, I was there Friday.

00:26:57.100 I was told we were allowed to be there because I thought it was breaking and entering.

00:26:59.980 That's what I assumed.

00:27:01.160 And so, I was, like, I was told we were supposed to be there, allowed to be there.

00:27:04.440 And, you know, so, and she's, like, well, you're, you're not aware that, that, uh, that portion of the house was burned down?

00:27:11.900 And I'm, like, no?

00:27:13.760 What are you talking about?

00:27:14.560 And, uh, so, she proceeds to tell me the story.

00:27:18.820 Apparently, um, some of the other people that, uh, the girl invited out for the next night,

00:27:25.160 one person got really high, fell asleep with, like, a, uh, frozen pizza in the, uh, oven or something like that and started a fire.

00:27:33.800 And instead of, like, trying to put out, they just left.

00:27:40.440 Drug addicts are all the same, aren't they?

00:27:42.540 And so, there's, like, literally smoke billowing from this.

00:27:45.320 And it's, like, on a hill, like, too.

00:27:47.140 So, like, you can see it from, like, like, very far away.

00:27:53.600 It is called Beverly Hills, yeah.

00:27:55.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:27:57.320 Um, and so, like, they're driving down the hill as the fire, uh, you know, the ambulance and the cops are coming up the hill.

00:28:05.280 And the cop flips a U and he's, like, because it's a private road and only leads to that house.

00:28:09.840 And, uh, so, they're, like, are you leaving that house?

00:28:12.900 They're, like, no. 1.00

00:28:13.980 You know, idiots, no, of course not. 1.00

00:28:16.140 We weren't there. 1.00

00:28:16.720 You know, lying, lying, lying.

00:28:18.040 And then the cops are, like, come on.

00:28:20.300 So, you know, the, and, um, the, I think one of them ended up getting charged with, like, fleeing the scene of a crime or something like that.

00:28:29.200 But nothing serious came out of it.

00:28:31.720 Uh, but, yeah, it was wild.

00:28:34.920 And, like, when she told me that, I was, like.

00:28:37.400 How did they know you were there?

00:28:39.480 Because the, the house owner basically gave her a list of everyone who was there.

00:28:44.840 Like, the girl who took us out there basically gave the, uh, investment.

00:28:48.320 But it was her uncle's house.

00:28:49.560 Yeah.

00:28:50.360 Yeah.

00:28:50.940 Yeah, he owned it.

00:28:51.660 So, as you're doing lines off the navels of Big Booty Latinas with your gangbanger heroin dealer buddy in some girl's uncle's house where Entourage was filmed, what are your parents thinking at this point of, like, what you're doing?

00:29:10.820 Uh, well, my parents, you know, God bless them.

00:29:14.580 They're so naive.

00:29:15.720 And, like, and my, and my dad, you know, had this consistent belief that, you know, our kids will do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because of the consequence that could come from it.

00:29:27.680 And, you know, as, as, you know, as noble as that is, it's just, it doesn't work.

00:29:32.440 You know, you, you have to have consequences.

00:29:35.500 Otherwise, you will run rampant and think you can do whatever you want.

00:29:39.140 Yeah.

00:29:39.660 And that's how it is.

00:29:40.720 It's not how it is.

00:29:41.520 I don't judge them.

00:29:42.060 I grew up around, I mean, they sound like Southern Californians in their attitudes that way.

00:29:45.500 Yeah.

00:29:45.760 Yeah.

00:29:46.060 And, you know, yeah, my dad was just, you know, very, you know, had a very strong moral conviction that, you know, he believed just was passed on to us.

00:29:56.140 And so, so my parents were, again, you know, had no idea what was going on until kind of another story, basically, long story short, I had a friend who was put into a coma.

00:30:11.960 Um, we were at a party and this guy, this guy came out really angry and just punched my friend in the face.

00:30:18.420 He fell, hit his head, put into a coma.

00:30:21.180 And, um, he wakes up three weeks later and my mom is there.

00:30:25.420 I wasn't there.

00:30:26.140 My mom was there.

00:30:26.780 And she, and he says, Patty, you need to get Chris away from, and she named out, she named, you know, some of the kids that I was associating with.

00:30:35.080 And she said, why?

00:30:36.560 You know, because, you know, they were at my house.

00:30:38.160 That was the first thing he said when he came out of a coma?

00:30:40.680 Yes.

00:30:42.460 Yes.

00:30:43.160 God exists.

00:30:44.760 Yeah.

00:30:45.300 Yeah.

00:30:45.800 God bless him.

00:30:46.740 Uh, really.

00:30:47.440 It was, uh, and then of course, you know, at the time I was like that, you know, snitch, uh, you know, that kind of mentality.

00:30:54.840 It's like, why are you trying to rain on my parade?

00:30:56.680 You know, I'm just having a good time.

00:30:58.660 Um, and, uh, but yeah, you know, I mean, my friends tried several, like, you know, my, my, my, my quote unquote stoner friends tried several interventions.

00:31:08.140 Um, and I was just like, you know, extremely defensive and like, who are you people to tell me anything, you know?

00:31:16.220 Um, and, you know, but again, they had my best interest at heart.

00:31:20.800 Of course.

00:31:21.100 And, uh, and, you know, many of those people I'm still in contact with today and, um, I'm so grateful that they, you know, took the time and the effort to try to save me from myself.

00:31:33.100 Incredible.

00:31:33.740 Are you still in, are you still in high school at this point?

00:31:36.980 Are you going to class?

00:31:38.060 Are you?

00:31:38.400 Yeah.

00:31:38.960 Going to class, you know, leaving early, uh, stuff like that, you know, ditching, you know, like fifth period, fourth period to go hang out and, you know.

00:31:46.500 How often are you doing heroin at this point?

00:31:49.120 Every day.

00:31:50.020 Every day.

00:31:50.520 At what time of day?

00:31:51.580 Like, what's the schedule for heroin addiction?

00:31:52.920 So, so wake up.

00:31:53.800 So I wasn't shooting it up, uh, yet.

00:31:55.600 I was, I was smoking it at first.

00:31:57.740 And, uh.

00:31:58.480 How did you smoke it?

00:31:59.560 So it's, so in California, um, heroin's mostly black tar heroin.

00:32:04.600 Yep, yep.

00:32:04.880 And, uh, so basically.

00:32:06.940 From Asia, correct?

00:32:09.520 Not sure.

00:32:10.380 Okay.

00:32:10.660 Um, but, uh, yeah, it's like this, like, little black, yeah, like square.

00:32:16.040 And so you put it on a piece of tinfoil.

00:32:18.540 You put a lighter underneath it and you get a straw and it makes like, it goes, it'll like trail down the tinfoil and you're, and the smoke's coming up and you suck it through the straw with the lighter.

00:32:29.260 And, uh, yeah, that was the.

00:32:33.540 What's the highlight from it?

00:32:36.120 Uh, I mean, just total euphoria.

00:32:39.740 Again, you feel like you're on, you're on top of the world.

00:32:42.540 You can, it doesn't matter if you're literally, your life is falling down around you.

00:32:47.320 So, you don't care.

00:32:48.800 It's like, you're fine.

00:32:50.620 Everything is fine.

00:32:51.780 Everything is great.

00:32:53.080 Wow.

00:32:54.100 Yeah.

00:32:54.940 So again, the insanity.

00:32:56.640 How long does it last?

00:32:58.440 Um, I was just smoking it.

00:33:01.180 And again, it all depends on like your tolerance level and things like that and things like that.

00:33:04.900 But I would say like, uh, you know, probably three, four hours, five hours.

00:33:12.640 Um.

00:33:13.960 So while you're in high school, when are you smoking heroin?

00:33:17.720 Uh, so I would do it, uh, before school, uh, you know, at home.

00:33:22.000 In your bedroom?

00:33:22.980 Yeah.

00:33:23.640 Yeah.

00:33:24.340 And, uh.

00:33:25.100 And your parents had no idea.

00:33:25.960 Or in my shower, in my shower.

00:33:27.520 Yeah.

00:33:27.840 And, uh, yeah, no, they didn't.

00:33:29.420 Yeah, they didn't.

00:33:30.260 They, so when my friend got out of the coma, they, you know, started to kind of try to keep

00:33:36.220 a closer eye on me, but I was still, you know, I was incredibly deceptive and very manipulative.

00:33:44.120 Of course.

00:33:44.580 Very manipulative and deceptive, uh, with my parents, uh, making them think that, oh,

00:33:49.140 these kids are great.

00:33:50.180 No, they're, they're actually the good kids.

00:33:53.220 Uh, um, and God, when I think about like the torment that I put my parents through, it

00:33:58.840 is just.

00:33:59.220 Where were you getting the money to buy all this heroin?

00:34:02.200 Uh, so I was, um, I had, I had, I still had that job at the, um, uh, golf or selling golf

00:34:10.620 clubs.

00:34:11.100 And, um, and then I, you know, I would occasionally take money from my parents, um, whatever I needed

00:34:18.480 to do, um, and then things I'm, you know, not proud of.

00:34:24.040 I bet.

00:34:24.540 Uh, but yeah, that's the nature of the disease is you will do anything to get that, get that

00:34:33.420 next fix.

00:34:33.940 Um, and, uh, so from smoking, it quickly deteriorated to, um, to shooting up because, you know,

00:34:47.400 I'd say within like a month of smoking it, I started shooting up because, you know, my

00:34:53.340 couple of my buddies started doing it and they're like, oh my gosh, dude, you only have to use

00:34:56.720 like one fifth of the amount and you get like a high that's like 10 times better.

00:35:01.720 I'm like, oh, great.

00:35:02.640 Save money.

00:35:05.120 And yeah, I remember the first time, like I remember the first time my buddy and I did

00:35:08.620 it, we looked it up, how to inject, you know, great Google search, how to inject heroin into

00:35:13.280 your body.

00:35:14.380 You Google searched it?

00:35:15.880 Yeah.

00:35:16.220 It's like, and then they have like images of like, cause you're supposed to go like diagonally

00:35:19.720 like with the, you know, like just go straight down.

00:35:21.960 Right.

00:35:22.140 Cause you want to, you want to go into the vein.

00:35:24.920 Yes.

00:35:25.140 And then, and then you basically draw back the syringe and once you see blood, cause you

00:35:30.220 know that it's in the vein, then you inject it.

00:35:33.640 But, um, if you miss, it's really painful.

00:35:38.180 Uh, you basically, what happens is like you don't, and you don't get that immediate euphoric

00:35:43.780 rush that you, that comes with shooting up.

00:35:45.440 That's, that doesn't come with smoke, like smoking it.

00:35:48.060 Yes, you get euphoria, but shooting up.

00:35:50.280 It's like that it's instantaneous and it's, it hits so much harder.

00:35:55.140 It's like crack versus cocaine.

00:35:56.820 Yes.

00:35:57.180 Yeah.

00:35:57.920 Um, and yeah, it was just a very, very.

00:36:01.720 Can I just ask you for perspective?

00:36:03.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:03.320 So how long between you, you know, the moment you first crushed a pill and snorted it and

00:36:10.440 the moment you first shot heroin?

00:36:12.940 Like how long was, did that progression take?

00:36:15.940 Uh, I would say less than a year, probably about like nine months. 0.99

00:36:21.960 Damn. 0.98

00:36:23.940 That's a pretty speedy. 1.00

00:36:24.940 Progressive illness.

00:36:25.860 Yeah.

00:36:26.840 Progressive illness.

00:36:27.780 Yeah.

00:36:28.940 Um.

00:36:29.680 So what was it like the first time you shot heroin?

00:36:31.840 Where'd you do it?

00:36:32.540 Uh, it was at my buddy's, uh, buddy's house in, um, in Laguna Hills in, in Nell, that neighborhood

00:36:39.940 that I mentioned, Nellie Gale.

00:36:41.280 Um.

00:36:41.760 The $5 million house neighborhood.

00:36:43.020 Yeah, exactly.

00:36:44.340 And, uh, so yeah, we were, um, in his room and I did it.

00:36:50.640 And then, yeah, again, it's that, just this overwhelming sense of euphoria and yeah, everything

00:36:58.000 is wonderful, even if, you know, you're, even if your life sucks and, and again, I understand

00:37:05.260 why a lot of, you know, like homeless people do drugs.

00:37:07.200 It's like, because their life is literally just in shambles and, you know, so I mean.

00:37:11.820 Yeah.

00:37:12.000 They're so broken.

00:37:12.860 There's no way to fix it.

00:37:14.020 This is their thinking.

00:37:15.100 So like, this is the escape.

00:37:16.360 Yeah.

00:37:16.500 So what's the point?

00:37:17.320 Yeah, exactly.

00:37:17.980 Why not just live in like a, you know, almost like a metaverse, you know?

00:37:21.540 Yes, exactly.

00:37:22.820 Um.

00:37:23.220 Nicely put.

00:37:24.080 Uh, thank you.

00:37:24.940 Um, so.

00:37:25.680 So, yeah, so I went to like, probably I would say not exaggerating over 10 rehab centers

00:37:33.700 in California.

00:37:34.540 Wait, so how did you get, okay, so you start shooting heroin.

00:37:38.240 How did you get busted?

00:37:39.660 How did you wind up going to rehab?

00:37:41.880 Oh yeah.

00:37:42.320 So, uh, I, uh, I was, uh, so I was shooting up on a daily basis and I actually started going

00:37:50.380 to a continuation school because I was just, I stopped going to class.

00:37:55.120 Um, my grades were too low.

00:37:57.380 Um, and you know, I basically got kicked out of school.

00:38:00.660 Uh, and so I was at a continuation school.

00:38:02.840 So you wind up in like.

00:38:04.440 Yeah.

00:38:04.760 Yeah.

00:38:05.120 The, the place I'm, the place I would ridicule and mock, like, and then I'm now I'm one of

00:38:09.680 them.

00:38:10.400 Uh.

00:38:10.620 Was your junkie friend still there?

00:38:13.480 Um.

00:38:14.080 The guy who first turned you on to the dealer?

00:38:15.760 No, because he was, um, he was like much older.

00:38:19.940 Yeah.

00:38:20.240 Or like, yeah, he was, uh, yeah, he was a senior when I, like I was a sophomore and he, and

00:38:24.320 he barely attended.

00:38:25.260 Like I saw him a few times on campus, but he barely went to school even when he was at

00:38:28.440 continuation school.

00:38:29.320 So yeah.

00:38:30.140 Um, and yeah, we, we really didn't associate with that guy other than just to go buy drugs.

00:38:34.980 But, um, cause he was not exactly, you know, a fun person to be around.

00:38:39.100 Uh, and so I doing drugs, doing hair, or doing, shooting up heroin before school.

00:38:46.300 And for some reason that day I decided to take my, uh, take all my drugs with me.

00:38:52.540 I had a little like Ziploc packet with my syringe, my, uh, you know, my, uh, what I use

00:39:00.480 to tie off, you know, you know, all my equipment.

00:39:02.560 Where'd you get the syringes by the way?

00:39:04.640 So, uh, there are certain pharmacies that will, you know, if you say, uh, you know,

00:39:09.100 my, my grandmother's a diabetic or whatever, um, that, and I think nowadays they just give

00:39:14.360 them to you in a lot of places, especially like Northern California.

00:39:18.280 Um.

00:39:18.740 Anything they can do to encourage a drug addicted population, therefore.

00:39:22.800 Yeah.

00:39:23.220 A hundred percent.

00:39:23.800 It's disgusting. 0.98

00:39:24.660 Gavin Newsom makes me sick. 0.94

00:39:25.780 The money, like, you know, he talks about this multifaceted plan to attack the opioid epidemic.

00:39:30.460 It's like, yeah, you've spent billions of dollars and it's only gotten worse.

00:39:33.600 Right.

00:39:33.920 Encouraging people to be addicts.

00:39:35.580 Yes, absolutely.

00:39:37.160 Um, and so I got, uh, so I decided for some dumb reason to bring my, uh, drugs to school

00:39:44.080 with me that day.

00:39:45.700 And, uh, and I also did something that I would never normally do.

00:39:51.140 It's, I, I told some random person that I'd never met that I was high on heroin, like in

00:39:57.060 class, like someone I sat next to the first time seemed like a cool person, cool guy.

00:40:01.660 I'm like, yeah, I'm on heroin.

00:40:03.080 Yeah.

00:40:03.380 And he's like, oh, really?

00:40:04.500 Yeah.

00:40:04.660 And like, didn't seem like he was going to tell on me.

00:40:08.980 And, uh, and so I'm in, I remember like two periods later, I'm in class and, uh, some

00:40:17.120 administrator comes into the room and says, um, Chris Chella, can you come to the office? 0.99

00:40:22.180 And, and I saw a cop behind her and I was like, oh, fuck. 0.98

00:40:25.980 And so I go down to the office and, um, she's like, yeah, um, we heard a rumor that you were 0.99

00:40:33.920 doing drugs.

00:40:34.540 And I'm like, who said that?

00:40:37.980 She's like, well, I can't tell you.

00:40:39.340 And I was like, well, it's not true.

00:40:41.220 You know, deny, deny, deny, deny.

00:40:43.260 Um, but they're like, she's like, okay, well, um, you know, we're going to search you.

00:40:48.200 And I was like, I don't think you guys have the, I don't think you guys have the legal

00:40:53.820 right to search me.

00:40:54.960 And she's like, if we have probable cause and like, you know, the, basically I, I allowed

00:41:00.400 it.

00:41:00.540 I wasn't sure if it was legal or not, but, um, I was hoping that, and, and so they searched

00:41:05.700 me in pants, you know, belt, all that stuff.

00:41:09.100 And she was about to turn away.

00:41:11.280 And then she says, wait, let me check your socks. 0.99

00:41:14.000 Literally like the last thing she did. 1.00

00:41:16.180 And I was like, oh, fuck. 1.00

00:41:17.440 And so of course got caught, got arrested. 1.00

00:41:20.860 So you had the kid in your socks.

00:41:22.900 Yeah.

00:41:23.240 Yeah.

00:41:23.660 It's just like high socks with it just like right here.

00:41:27.000 And, um, so I get, you know, arrested or detained and my, you know, the cop releases me into

00:41:35.880 my mom's custody.

00:41:37.380 Uh, and my mom drives me home.

00:41:39.660 She says, you're, you're going to rehab.

00:41:41.940 Like, uh, you know, I don't want to hear anything about it.

00:41:45.660 You're going to rehab.

00:41:46.300 And I was like, okay.

00:41:47.980 And your mom is like someone who knows opioids, like how bad it is.

00:41:51.500 Yes.

00:41:51.960 Yes.

00:41:52.920 And, um, and that's why she would, you know, at times, you know, when it was like, I was

00:41:59.160 in terrible withdrawal and I was like, mom, I, I'm dying.

00:42:03.280 Like, I, I need, like, please just give me like, you know, and, you know, she would occasionally

00:42:07.760 give me a little bit of money just to, cause she felt, cause she knew, she knew and God

00:42:12.940 bless her. 0.97

00:42:13.540 You know, she just, I put so, I, you know, I rained down so much terror and chaos upon my

00:42:20.620 parents.

00:42:21.400 They just, they were just trying everything they could think of.

00:42:24.560 And, you know, some things they did really well.

00:42:26.920 Some things, obviously, you know, again, being a parent is hard, especially a parent of a

00:42:31.080 wild psychotic drug addict. 0.88

00:42:33.240 Yeah.

00:42:34.440 Um, uh, and, and, and, and dealing with, you know, obviously, you know, my sister's issues

00:42:39.120 as well, you know, just goodness.

00:42:41.060 Um, but as soon as my mom turned her back, I stole the $80 she had in cash out of her 0.51

00:42:47.300 wallet and drove to LA and obviously, um, um, oh, so the gangbanger that I, I left this

00:42:56.580 out, the gangbanger that I was partying with, and I really regret doing this because, you

00:43:01.460 know, I consider him a friend, but I was desperate at the time.

00:43:05.560 And so I was like, all right, I'm going to rob him.

00:43:08.440 And you're going to rob the gangbanger.

00:43:09.840 Yes.

00:43:11.100 Yeah.

00:43:12.120 Um, and so I, I, that doesn't seem like a good decision.

00:43:15.960 No, no, um, again, but you know, so desperate in, in agony and like, what else can I do?

00:43:25.100 Um, so I got this like 220 pound, 225 pound Scottish kid and this big kid from the football

00:43:32.360 team.

00:43:33.320 Um, and I'm like, yeah, we're just going to rob this little skinny Mexican guy. 1.00

00:43:36.260 It's like, no problem. 0.85

00:43:37.560 And they're like, all right, cool. 0.99

00:43:38.540 And, um, as, as, as we were getting up there, wait, wait, wait, wait, like super dumb people 0.99

00:43:45.920 then. 0.99

00:43:46.300 Yes.

00:43:48.140 One of, one of them, one of them became a meth head.

00:43:50.260 He mocked me for being a heroin addict and like, you know, shunned me, but then he became 0.88

00:43:53.720 like a hardcore meth head.

00:43:55.020 And, um, uh, but when I like, but you just go to them cold, Hey, we're going to rob some 0.99

00:44:00.860 Mexican kid. 0.97

00:44:01.760 Yeah.

00:44:02.080 And I, I failed to mention that he was, you know, a gangbanger and, you know, had associations

00:44:09.200 with the Mexican mafia.

00:44:11.100 And, uh, and so I, I kind of let, I accidentally let that slip, um, on the ride up there and

00:44:17.260 they're like, uh, we don't want to do this anymore.

00:44:21.420 No.

00:44:21.640 Yeah. 1.00

00:44:21.880 And, and, and, and so like we get there and I'm like, you fucking pussies. 1.00

00:44:25.540 And so I just, sorry, cursing. 0.99

00:44:27.440 Um, so I just, uh, uh, get into the car myself and commit it and commit the robbery.

00:44:35.640 How do you rob him?

00:44:37.280 So, um, I sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and, um, uh, put something to his throat

00:44:44.740 and said, don't move.

00:44:45.620 I just reached into the, cause I knew where he kept it and just reached and grabbed it.

00:44:49.600 And, uh, and then jumped out.

00:44:52.040 My friend was in the driver's seat and I was like, go.

00:44:55.220 And he's driving like a maniac.

00:44:56.700 I'm like, dude, calm down, slow down.

00:44:59.000 Like, um, cause it's very narrow streets in that area.

00:45:02.260 It's like that.

00:45:03.060 And so we're driving and, uh.

00:45:05.040 You're making me tense, man.

00:45:06.100 Just telling me this story.

00:45:07.400 And where were you?

00:45:08.240 What town was this?

00:45:09.020 Uh, this was in like Southgate, like the same, same area that, you know, I was going to pick

00:45:13.720 up the stuff before.

00:45:15.620 And, um.

00:45:16.720 You pepper sprayed a member of the Mexican mafia and stole his heroin.

00:45:20.020 Yes. 1.00

00:45:22.580 You got balls. 0.99

00:45:23.440 I'll say that. 0.99

00:45:24.280 Um.

00:45:25.760 Again.

00:45:26.500 Have you apologized to him, by the way, years later?

00:45:29.520 I haven't had the opportunity.

00:45:30.760 You haven't been back to Southgate?

00:45:32.020 No.

00:45:32.540 Yeah.

00:45:32.860 Uh, if, if, if, if you're watching, I apologize, man.

00:45:36.560 Okay, I was about to say, would you like to say sorry?

00:45:37.980 Yeah, no, I, I do regret it.

00:45:39.920 Um, but, uh, so, yeah.

00:45:43.860 So my friend's driving down the street and we, I see him driving down the like perpendicular

00:45:48.780 street behind us. 0.99

00:45:50.080 And I'm like, how the fuck is he driving? 1.00

00:45:51.780 I just like unloaded a bunch of pepper spray in his face. 1.00

00:45:55.480 And.

00:45:55.580 He's armed too.

00:45:56.960 What?

00:45:57.340 He's armed.

00:45:58.920 Um, yeah, probably.

00:46:00.960 Yeah.

00:46:01.440 Um, and so we're, uh, like my, so I'm like, all right, just keep driving.

00:46:07.080 And he, for some reason, he like just does like a wild turn onto a very narrow, um, residential

00:46:12.540 street, crashes into an oncoming car.

00:46:14.420 Oh, come on! 0.99

00:46:15.320 Yeah. 1.00

00:46:17.060 And I'm just like, you fucking idiot. 1.00

00:46:19.280 Do you go to church? 1.00

00:46:20.380 Yes.

00:46:20.900 Good.

00:46:21.140 I've, I've, I've, I've, yes, I've gone to confession so many times.

00:46:24.800 Good.

00:46:25.020 And, and yeah.

00:46:25.660 Spirituality.

00:46:26.060 But just to say thank you too for being here, for being alive.

00:46:30.400 Yeah.

00:46:30.760 No, exactly.

00:46:31.500 I should have died so many times over.

00:46:33.000 You think?

00:46:33.860 Like, yeah. 1.00

00:46:34.560 I mean, the amount of, not just, you know, the stupid things that I was doing outside 0.84

00:46:38.700 of my use, but I mean, the, like, if I was an addict in the age of fentanyl, where like 0.98

00:46:44.580 fentanyl is laced in, I would probably would have died.

00:46:47.360 Um, just because I stopped in 2016 when that was like, when it started to really get like

00:46:53.240 when, when they started to put heroin into fentanyl or fentanyl into heroin and other drugs

00:46:58.400 because. 0.97

00:46:59.100 When Trump got elected and the Chinese decided to just like kill a huge part of our population. 1.00

00:47:03.680 Yeah. 0.97

00:47:04.180 Yeah.

00:47:04.300 Flood our country with poison, basically.

00:47:06.640 Right.

00:47:06.920 Um, and.

00:47:07.860 Yeah, I remember that.

00:47:08.720 I'm sorry.

00:47:09.160 I'm stepping on your story again.

00:47:10.100 No, no, no.

00:47:10.460 You're fine.

00:47:10.600 I'm just why you're blowing my mind with this.

00:47:12.060 You're fine.

00:47:12.080 You're fine.

00:47:14.160 And by the way, can I just make one other editorial comment as a product of Southern

00:47:18.220 California?

00:47:18.800 It's really a decadent society.

00:47:20.580 Just being, I'm like for real decadent.

00:47:22.440 Like I don't.

00:47:23.160 I'm fine.

00:47:23.500 Um, and I grew up there, you know, in the, in the early eighties was when I was your

00:47:28.980 eight, you know, uh, the age you describe and it was so decadent that I, I almost never

00:47:34.980 think about it.

00:47:35.600 But, um, but you were a product of that society.

00:47:38.540 I mean, I'm just telling you.

00:47:39.620 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:47:40.820 100%.

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00:47:46.260 have a good time if you're wearing bad boots.

00:47:48.900 In fact, it may be impossible.

00:47:50.020 And that's why you need Tecovas.

00:47:51.960 As a matter of fact, you don't just need them.

00:47:53.480 You owe them to yourself.

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00:48:35.780 Anyway, okay, so your friend, you see the guy from the Mexican Mafia.

00:48:41.080 He's somehow recovered from getting shot in the face with pepper spray. 0.99

00:48:45.060 Of course he has a gun in the vehicle and he's looking to kill you.

00:48:48.280 And you see him perpendicular.

00:48:50.500 Your friend swerves down a narrow road and head on.

00:48:55.160 Yeah, with some, you know, driver by.

00:48:59.680 And so I jump out of the car, stash my drugs.

00:49:04.080 Have you, have you used the heroin yet?

00:49:05.700 No, no.

00:49:06.600 So you're still like jumpy withdrawal guy at this point.

00:49:09.020 Yeah.

00:49:09.540 Yeah.

00:49:09.900 And, but I like, I stashed it and this one, like there was like, cause there was a bunch

00:49:14.780 of people like they immediately started to like, and my two friends take off by the way.

00:49:19.320 They just start running down the street.

00:49:20.700 I'm like, why?

00:49:22.080 Running down the street.

00:49:23.200 Yeah.

00:49:23.520 Yeah.

00:49:23.820 In, in South, in South.

00:49:25.260 And this is not an Anglo neighborhood.

00:49:26.660 So like they stick out.

00:49:28.000 Yeah.

00:49:28.380 Yeah.

00:49:28.720 Yeah.

00:49:29.040 Like sore thumbs, like a big, yeah.

00:49:31.120 I mean, well, one of them was Hispanic, so maybe not so much, but, but the Scottish guy.

00:49:35.300 Yeah.

00:49:35.580 Like, and so we, so, so I jump out of the car.

00:49:43.620 I stash my drugs, sit down on the curb and wait for the police.

00:49:47.620 Um, you know, cause there's, there's so many people there, so many witnesses.

00:49:51.000 Um, and, but again, no one knew that what had just transpired all this, all again, like

00:49:58.340 it was just a, a, a car accident as far as they were concerned.

00:50:03.060 Um, and as far as the police were concerned.

00:50:05.800 And so, uh, yeah, my friends run and the cops, the cops come, they show up, they're like,

00:50:13.260 you know, Hey, what are you doing out here?

00:50:14.440 I was like, we were trying to find a friend's house. 0.98

00:50:16.020 We got turned around, um, uh, yeah, made up some bullshit story. 0.97

00:50:21.820 Just trying to find a friend's house. 0.92

00:50:24.600 And, um, and he's like, well, do you need to go to the hospital?

00:50:26.820 And I'm like, no, no, I'm good.

00:50:28.300 I'm good.

00:50:28.940 Um, I'm fine.

00:50:30.520 And he's like, okay, well, um, do you, do you have a ride?

00:50:34.200 I was like, yeah, I'm going to call somebody to pick me up.

00:50:35.940 And he's like, okay.

00:50:37.300 And, um, so, you know, I wait for them to depart and go back into the little bush and of

00:50:42.060 course grab my, grab my drugs. 0.84

00:50:43.580 Can't forget that.

00:50:44.740 Uh, and, um, and then I, uh, I got, I ended up getting a ride from a buddy, another user.

00:50:51.700 And I was like, Hey, I'll give you some, give you some dope.

00:50:54.100 You can pick me up.

00:50:54.600 Because I was, I was very concerned that they were going to like, you know, I was like, I

00:50:59.220 need to get out of Southgate fast.

00:51:01.280 Yeah.

00:51:01.600 Like right away.

00:51:02.540 Yeah.

00:51:02.860 And so I, yeah.

00:51:03.500 So I was like, dude, just please come, come pick me up.

00:51:05.920 I will make it worth your while.

00:51:07.480 So, and so I get picked up.

00:51:09.640 So you had to wait on the sidewalk?

00:51:11.500 Well, I, I was, I was actually this, this nice lady.

00:51:14.160 Um, she was, uh, like her house was like right next to where the accident took place.

00:51:19.240 And so I was like, do you mind if I just like post up on your, on your front step?

00:51:22.260 Like, I was like, I'm, I just want to wait for my ride.

00:51:25.440 And, you know, it's kind of, I'm kind of scared.

00:51:28.080 I'm in a dangerous neighborhood, you know, played like the little, oh, you know, uh, and,

00:51:33.380 uh, she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:34.760 Um, you know, very kind.

00:51:36.420 Uh, and so I just sit there and wait and, um, and, you know, I have like the drugs in my

00:51:40.540 fist ready to like toss them at a moment's notice if I need to or whatever.

00:51:43.920 Um, and, and then I get picked up and that's that.

00:51:47.980 Um, but what transpired after, because thankfully they only knew me by CJ, like Chris Jr., my

00:51:56.100 initials, that's what I went by, my nickname from like kindergarten through, yeah, through

00:52:01.620 high school.

00:52:02.700 Um, and then they, and they knew I lived in South Orange County and, but they didn't know

00:52:07.820 anything else.

00:52:08.440 And so they would, so they, they switched up the way they did their, um, uh, like the way

00:52:15.080 they did the process of selling the dope where they would, now you had to, so you had

00:52:18.860 to meet up, then follow them down like this empty street or an alley or something like

00:52:23.560 that, then stand up against a chain link fence and get searched.

00:52:29.100 And then you could get into the car and get your stuff.

00:52:32.940 And, and they would ask every single person, do you know CJ, do you know, uh, CJ from

00:52:37.420 South Orange County, do you know where he lives?

00:52:39.580 Ooh.

00:52:39.860 And yeah, so for a very long while, um, and you know, I was like so grateful when I saw

00:52:45.420 that OC Register article, the fact that they had, and I saw that his picture, um, in the,

00:52:50.040 you know, his mugshot in the article, the wild, um, and his name listed, uh, I'm just not

00:52:57.380 going to say it, uh, but, um, yeah, I mean, crazy stuff.

00:53:02.340 Let me just pause to ask you, the, the guys who you were with on that caper where you

00:53:09.000 assaulted the member of the Mexican mafia, did they turn out okay?

00:53:14.380 Um, well, one of them became a meth head. 0.90

00:53:17.380 Yes.

00:53:17.780 Uh, yeah.

00:53:18.240 Yeah.

00:53:18.540 Um, and it's ironic because when they got like, when they got, uh, caught, they got caught

00:53:24.160 at like a seven or a Starbucks, um, cops picked them up and they immediately just spilled

00:53:30.400 everything, they told them the whole story for no reason.

00:53:33.360 And I know for a fact because my father represented him in the hit and run and the, the, the, the,

00:53:40.640 I took the, uh, DA like until almost the end of the trial to figure out that I was also associate

00:53:46.780 and like, he's like, wait, your son was involved in this.

00:53:49.940 And, and, and my dad was like trying so hard to thread the needle, you know, to not get

00:53:55.860 me, not expose me to any potential criminality and also, you know, defend my friend.

00:54:02.240 And, uh, yeah, it was, uh, yeah.

00:54:06.580 So one became a drug addict.

00:54:08.020 And the other one, uh, I kind of lost, lost contact with, have no idea.

00:54:11.420 How many of the guys that you partied with in high school are sober now?

00:54:15.380 How many are dead?

00:54:16.320 Do you, do you keep track?

00:54:17.340 Um, from high school, uh, most, uh, yeah, I, I, one friend passed away, um, opiate user,

00:54:25.860 good guy, but, um, you know, he wasn't like a particularly heinous junkie.

00:54:31.660 I mean, he just was a junkie.

00:54:33.260 Um, but he was a good, I like, you know, good hearted.

00:54:35.620 Uh, and, uh, but he passed away, um.

00:54:38.480 Of an OD.

00:54:39.260 Yeah, overdose.

00:54:40.160 Uh, and, um, you know, I had, I met a few friends in rehab.

00:54:44.680 One, whom I was very close to, lived in New York and, you know, we stayed in contact,

00:54:49.260 met in Florida, stayed in contact, um, and for, you know, like four years.

00:54:54.380 And then, uh, you know, I got a call from his mom that saying that he had OD'd, you know,

00:54:58.520 relapsed and, uh, and, you know, it was just heartbreaking.

00:55:01.900 Uh, but, uh, yeah, most, but no, most of my friends, like the, like the stoners from high

00:55:07.320 school, um, are very successful individuals, college graduates, um, you know, working in

00:55:14.640 finance, working in different, you know, sectors and having a great life.

00:55:19.420 What about the opioid users?

00:55:22.180 Uh, the opioid users kind of like, they, they have the advantage of like, um, uh, many of them

00:55:29.300 that I hang out with or hung out with, excuse me, were already, you know, their family was

00:55:33.360 just uber wealthy.

00:55:35.440 Um, like one of them, one of their fathers was the CEO of a company called AmeriQuest.

00:55:39.280 It was worth like, you know, um, $80 million.

00:55:43.100 Uh, so they, uh, they had a, you know, a lot of money to fall back on.

00:55:48.340 So like they tried opening up like a clothing line, different thing, but ultimately.

00:55:53.720 Music label?

00:55:54.520 What?

00:55:54.980 Music label?

00:55:55.800 No, not yet.

00:55:56.580 That's kind of the classic one.

00:55:57.740 Yeah.

00:55:58.100 No, there were other kids in our, uh, in, in Orange County that did do that, that started,

00:56:03.680 that tried to start a, start a rap group.

00:56:05.220 And I'm just like.

00:56:05.680 Of course.

00:56:06.160 Yeah.

00:56:07.040 I could write this story.

00:56:10.560 It's just, yeah.

00:56:11.540 Orange County is so weird.

00:56:13.540 Um, but, um, anyway, so yeah, so I've, uh, well, yeah, but most of my friends from high

00:56:20.140 school are very successful.

00:56:21.440 And, uh, I mean, my, like the one, the stoners are, yeah, yeah.

00:56:25.760 Um, but unfortunately, yeah, I've lost multiple friends, you know, people that I actually genuinely

00:56:33.360 cared about, not just, you know, acquaintances, acquaintances.

00:56:36.380 Yes.

00:56:36.680 You know, I had too many acquaintances to count, but, um, you know, real friends, it's been

00:56:40.880 like, you know, like five.

00:56:42.200 Do you have any idea what happened to the guy you pepper sprayed?

00:56:45.020 No.

00:56:47.040 And, oh, this is, this is nuts.

00:56:49.640 When I was in rehab, so the guy, the guy boss, right?

00:56:53.260 He had different runners, like, you know, multiple guys who would run to cars.

00:56:56.520 And one time I had this guy and, um, and so I was in rehab and it was like a, it was

00:57:01.920 in, it was in San Diego.

00:57:04.040 Um, and, uh, I think Chula Vista.

00:57:08.040 Great place to put a rehab.

00:57:09.520 But it was like.

00:57:10.240 Well, your rehab was in Chula Vista?

00:57:12.080 Yeah.

00:57:12.320 And, uh, yeah, it's like, you're setting yourself up to fail.

00:57:17.340 Um, but, uh, they, uh, had like, it was a mansion and then it, uh, kind of like a bungalow.

00:57:25.120 They had little like bungalows, um, like type things.

00:57:27.980 And so it could house about like 30, 40 people.

00:57:30.800 And so they, um, had me there and this guy comes in and I'm like, he looks familiar.

00:57:38.980 And I didn't like, I didn't, I couldn't put my finger on where I'd seen him before.

00:57:43.480 And he goes, he goes, Hey man, he said, he said, I used to, he said, I used to run for

00:57:48.480 boss.

00:57:49.040 And I, uh, he's like, I, I think I delivered to you once.

00:57:51.660 And I'm like, Oh my God.

00:57:54.160 And he's like, and he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, you're friends with

00:57:57.600 right.

00:57:58.280 And the guy that robbed the guy that I robbed.

00:58:01.040 And I was like, yeah, yeah.

00:58:03.580 Great friends.

00:58:04.300 And, um, I was like, I heard he was locked up though.

00:58:06.840 He's like, yeah, no, he's out now.

00:58:08.780 And I was like, Oh, okay.

00:58:10.760 And he's like, I'll tell him you said hi when, cause that you get a seven day blackout and

00:58:14.540 you can't use the phone.

00:58:15.800 Uh, when you first go in a lot of treatment centers have that rule.

00:58:18.740 This place did.

00:58:19.840 Um, and so he's like, yeah, I'll tell you said what up when I, uh, when I talked to him,

00:58:27.980 I'm like, Oh my God, he's, this guy's going to knife me in my sleep, you know?

00:58:32.540 And I was seriously, I, I was concerned, I was going to tell, uh, like my therapist

00:58:38.460 and see, you know, what could potentially be done because I was genuinely, cause you

00:58:44.080 could easily in that place, sneak out of your bedroom, go in and go into someone else's

00:58:48.020 bedroom if you wanted to.

00:58:49.520 It's not like it's locked down.

00:58:51.000 You know, they have, you know, quote unquote people that are watching at night, but the

00:58:56.900 place is so big.

00:58:57.800 It's, you know, you could do it if you want.

00:58:59.260 And of course there are no locks on the doors.

00:59:00.680 No, no, of course not because, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:59:05.900 Um, people were buying air duster and like, you know, like anything to get a buzz.

00:59:11.360 And I was just like, wow, uh, that was kind of eyeopening for me, but not eyeopening enough

00:59:16.220 to stop, but it's like, wow.

00:59:17.940 This year.

00:59:18.600 So how many times did you go to rehab?

00:59:21.140 Uh, total between California and Florida, probably somewhere between 15 and 20, 15 and

00:59:27.920 20.

00:59:28.420 Yeah. 0.99

00:59:28.600 Um, I got, cause I got kicked out of a bunch of places for stupid, for, for reasons that 0.97

00:59:33.460 were not related to drugs necessarily, uh, fratner's eight, fratnization. 0.92

00:59:38.200 What does that mean?

00:59:39.460 Hooking up with girls that were grabbing the girls.

00:59:41.040 Yeah.

00:59:41.380 Yeah.

00:59:41.720 I mean, not again, consensually.

00:59:43.480 Right.

00:59:44.020 I'm sorry.

00:59:44.760 Right.

00:59:45.000 I meant that in a consensual.

00:59:45.900 I just, yeah, just let me, yeah, clarify that.

00:59:47.980 In a pre Harvey Weinstein sense.

00:59:50.220 Yeah.

00:59:50.580 Yeah, exactly.

00:59:52.520 And, um, so I mean, I was like 17, 18 years old.

00:59:56.920 Um, and, uh, and you, and you have heroin affect your sex drive. 0.61

01:00:02.260 Yes.

01:00:02.640 It makes it, it, it lowers it a lot.

01:00:05.080 And then when you come off of it, horny 24, seven, like, yeah.

01:00:09.480 Yeah.

01:00:09.780 Cause it's like cocaine is like that.

01:00:11.900 Yeah.

01:00:12.400 And, and it's, it's interesting because like my, one of my therapists described, um, withdrawal

01:00:18.240 as your body basically being in shock because you've been numbing all your senses for so

01:00:24.480 long.

01:00:25.100 Yeah.

01:00:25.340 And then when you stop, your body is like, everything is just like taking in light.

01:00:32.460 Yeah.

01:00:33.120 Chewing food, everything hurt.

01:00:34.780 Like my eyes hurt, my teeth hurt, every muscle and bone in my body ached.

01:00:40.400 Like it, it is, if you could find a way to like inject that into like find a way to like

01:00:46.340 inject that feeling into like a, for interrogation purposes, let that guy sweat it out for a

01:00:52.000 day.

01:00:52.400 He'll tell you where all the bombs are.

01:00:54.180 I assure you, you know, it is like a truly, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

01:00:58.460 Really?

01:00:59.180 Yeah.

01:00:59.500 It is so bad.

01:01:00.680 So did you have to detox, I guess every single time, 15 or 20 times?

01:01:04.780 You went to rehab?

01:01:05.480 Pretty much.

01:01:06.380 Um, there were a few times when I was, uh, like kind of just on and off using.

01:01:13.300 And so it was like the withdrawal was like, yeah, I kind of felt it, but there were, yeah,

01:01:18.520 probably about 10 times when I went through hardcore withdrawal.

01:01:22.640 And, uh, yeah, every single time I was like, I never want to feel this feeling again, you know?

01:01:28.920 And, but I wasn't, I still wasn't committing to myself that I wanted to stop.

01:01:36.600 I was just like, how long does it last?

01:01:38.060 The withdrawal agony?

01:01:39.480 Uh, I mean, it's, they say like up to like seven days typically, but I mean, in reality,

01:01:45.520 I, I mean, my, um, withdrawal, um, the, my last withdrawal lasted about like three, it

01:01:53.760 was like three weeks before I remember, I remember like the day I was like laying in bed and I

01:01:58.480 was like, wow, I actually feel comfortable.

01:02:00.300 Like my body doesn't ache.

01:02:02.760 Like I, I can, I'm like, I feel, I feel kind of normal.

01:02:06.380 Three weeks?

01:02:07.240 Yeah.

01:02:07.540 I mean, and it's like, again, the first week is just like absolute hell.

01:02:11.840 You're sweating bullets, you're, uh, cold, like the sweat on your body makes you cold.

01:02:16.900 And then it's just, it's, it's terrible.

01:02:18.620 And again, all the other things I described, um, and that just slowly.

01:02:24.080 And then, and then the, the discomfort, it's like the epitome of discomfort.

01:02:28.500 Gastrointestinal too.

01:02:29.140 Um, uh, some people, some people got like diarrhea, things like that.

01:02:33.080 I did, uh, I didn't, some people got like would vomit and stuff, but that never really

01:02:38.180 happened to me.

01:02:38.780 It's, I guess it's just, you know, it depends on the person, but, um, yeah, it just, just,

01:02:44.500 uh, overwhelming like sense of just, yeah, shock, I guess is the best way to put it.

01:02:51.120 Um, and, uh, yeah, uh, again, just terrible.

01:02:57.680 Interesting.

01:02:59.080 So rehab, I mean, you're making a pretty strong case.

01:03:01.820 It doesn't work very well.

01:03:03.180 I mean, if you went to 50, I mean, God knows what that cost, by the way, you know, someone

01:03:07.700 paid for it.

01:03:08.200 I don't know if it was your family or some insurance program, the state taxpayers, whatever,

01:03:11.880 but someone's paying a lot of money.

01:03:13.220 Yeah.

01:03:13.280 Um, yeah, the, so the first rehab I ever went to was, it was called the Phoenix house and

01:03:18.500 it was in, um, it was in like Northern Orange County and it was a state run facility.

01:03:23.880 And like you, it was like a, kind of like a bootcamp style.

01:03:28.760 You had to like fold your bed with the military, you know, corner crease and everything like

01:03:33.020 that.

01:03:33.360 All your, um, shirts had to be lined up your, um, you know, your toiletries had to be perfectly

01:03:39.620 in a row, all that stuff. 0.89

01:03:41.620 Um, and you know, I did that and I was like, I was like, I hate this, this sucks.

01:03:50.240 And all I want to do is get out and you, you know, I'm just like, I just can't wait

01:03:53.600 till this 30 days is over so I can leave.

01:03:56.040 And, and I was like, I was like, I don't think I want to do, I was like, I, at that time

01:03:59.920 I was like, I don't think I want to do heroin, but I definitely want to like, I still want

01:04:03.460 to be able to smoke marijuana.

01:04:04.860 I still want to be able to drink.

01:04:06.480 And like, and, uh, I mean, to this day, I still, you know, smoke marijuana and drink, uh,

01:04:11.540 recreationally, occasionally.

01:04:13.700 Um, but, uh, yeah, I made the decision.

01:04:19.680 And that I, or, you know, I just wasn't ready to quit yet.

01:04:22.640 And I think what, what it's really, you can go to as many different treatment centers,

01:04:27.660 uh, doctors, AA meetings.

01:04:30.480 It has to be, I think, an intrinsic motivation to better yourself.

01:04:37.300 And you have to want that.

01:04:40.780 Like you have to want it.

01:04:41.880 You can't do it for somebody else.

01:04:43.240 If you're doing it for your child, if you're doing it for your wife, if you're doing it for 0.92

01:04:47.200 your parents, you're going to fail.

01:04:49.140 Hey, it's Tucker Carlson, not to be a moralizer, but some things, and you know this as well

01:04:52.980 as we do, some things are just wrong.

01:04:54.480 They may not be illegal, but you'd never do them for reasons of self-respect, if no other.

01:04:59.160 And teabagging, sorry to say it, teabagging is one of those.

01:05:02.020 You shouldn't be doing that.

01:05:03.140 And you know, you shouldn't be doing that.

01:05:04.760 And yet the big nicotine pouch companies encourage you to teabag.

01:05:08.880 They call them nicotine pouches, but they're basically teabags.

01:05:11.160 They're dry, desiccated, tasteless. 0.94

01:05:13.880 They're disgusting. 0.97

01:05:14.540 And they're degrading to you. 1.00

01:05:15.980 Don't put one in your mouth.

01:05:18.200 Now you have an option.

01:05:19.440 It's called Alp.

01:05:20.460 It's not dry like a teabag.

01:05:22.480 You're not teabagging when you use it.

01:05:24.340 And you should be proud of that.

01:05:25.460 You've got self-respect.

01:05:26.960 Now you can show that self-respect with our no teabagging t-shirt, which you can find right

01:05:31.800 now at alppouch.com.

01:05:33.900 Okay, so let me just ask you, I've heard and known, I've heard this story and I've known

01:05:40.680 many people who've lived this story where they're addicted to something, whether it's

01:05:44.400 pills or heroin, cocaine, alcohol mostly.

01:05:48.240 And they just go to rehab after rehab after rehab, relapse after relapse after relapse,

01:05:52.780 destroying their sense of themselves.

01:05:55.900 And, you know, they feel like losers, you know, when you keep failing at something, it's

01:05:58.820 not good for you.

01:05:59.580 You know, you fail more.

01:06:00.580 Yeah, exactly.

01:06:01.440 So why do we have, like, what's the point of this?

01:06:03.980 Like, why do we have, these centers clearly don't work.

01:06:07.800 I mean, do they?

01:06:08.700 I don't know.

01:06:09.080 It doesn't sound like they do.

01:06:10.100 Yeah.

01:06:10.380 I mean, again, it's, it's, I think that like, it's, it's, it all depends on the person,

01:06:15.980 but again, it has to, you have to want it.

01:06:18.280 That's the bottom line is like, you have to want it.

01:06:19.880 And like these treatment centers, they can't, they do some good, but they should not be like,

01:06:25.480 you should not say, you know, rehab is a cure or AA is a cure because,

01:06:30.860 like, yeah, if you're go, if you go into those places, you can sometimes develop the

01:06:35.900 intrinsic motivation through therapy or through discussion with other people or whatever.

01:06:41.200 But I mean, for me, it was so, uh, fast forward a little bit.

01:06:46.580 So, you know, I, I get basically kicked out of every rehab in California.

01:06:49.660 So my parents are like, all right, let's send you to Florida.

01:06:52.240 Let's try a new environment.

01:06:53.560 And, and, uh, South Florida was like the rehab capital.

01:06:57.580 Of course, Delray.

01:06:58.360 Yeah.

01:06:59.160 Yeah.

01:06:59.700 Um, yeah.

01:07:00.680 Delray, Boynton beach.

01:07:02.080 Um, uh, and it was just, I mean, I was shocked that like some of the places where the halfway 1.00

01:07:11.080 houses were, or the, um, sober homes were located like down the street from like the known markets

01:07:18.660 where people like, we're, you know, it's a scam.

01:07:20.820 Look, I, no one's more for sobriety than I am.

01:07:23.420 I'm a sober person, totally opposed to drugs and alcohol, period.

01:07:27.920 But let's just stop lying about it.

01:07:29.960 This is a, these places are a scam, not all of them.

01:07:32.480 Yeah.

01:07:32.960 But a lot of them are just a money-making scam profiting off the misery and death of addicts.

01:07:39.020 Yeah.

01:07:39.240 They see you as an insurance policy with a heartbeat.

01:07:42.260 Exactly.

01:07:42.760 That's pretty much it, you know, and, uh.

01:07:44.780 True villains, I think.

01:07:46.120 Yeah.

01:07:46.440 Yeah.

01:07:46.740 No, no.

01:07:47.280 This most, the most sinister man probably, uh, in, if you want to just pick one out is, 0.94

01:07:52.500 his name is ****.

01:07:53.700 He was, uh, I, that was the first treatment center I went to in Florida.

01:07:57.400 So **** owned a treatment center and he owned several halfway houses.

01:08:01.600 But they were all, everything was in his wife's name.

01:08:04.760 That's one thing that was like a red flag to me.

01:08:06.860 Um, and so, and this guy shows up to the, to the rehab center in like a three-piece, you

01:08:11.740 know, Armani suit with like a Gucci belt and like, you know, um, like dressed like a pimp, 0.59

01:08:17.340 you know, I mean, and, and ironically, he is a pimp.

01:08:21.460 He was, so he had girls in his halfway houses that he was giving heroin, giving crack and pimping 0.56

01:08:28.100 them out and then sending them back to treatment where they would ultimately fail their drug

01:08:34.640 test and have to go to detox.

01:08:36.860 And guess who gets a kickback from the detox center?

01:08:40.280 No way.

01:08:41.580 Yeah.

01:08:42.260 And then it was the South Florida rehab shuffle.

01:08:44.340 There are many cases of it.

01:08:46.440 If you, you know, you just Google that, you'll see, you know, a bunch of different stories, 0.98

01:08:49.780 but as I would say is like the kingpin of just absolute scumbag, like you said, villain, 0.99

01:08:57.460 a villain, a true evil. 0.99

01:08:59.000 That's so evil that it's hard.

01:09:00.280 It's so, yeah, it's, it's, it's incomprehensible to me as a human being.

01:09:03.280 It's like a slave trader.

01:09:04.400 Yeah.

01:09:04.800 Yeah.

01:09:05.180 Essentially.

01:09:05.760 Treating people as objects, as animals.

01:09:07.860 Yeah.

01:09:08.420 And so does he, does he, is he still in this business?

01:09:10.420 I never heard of him.

01:09:11.040 No, he's, he's, he was sentenced to 27 years in prison.

01:09:14.080 Um, wow.

01:09:14.860 Yeah.

01:09:15.120 So the, the feds, the feds started to crack down on the, the Florida rehab shuffle.

01:09:19.740 Although I read, uh, somewhere that it's supposedly coming back, um, that the, you know, cause it's

01:09:26.680 basically, and you know, wasn't the, he was probably one of the worst offenders, but a

01:09:31.360 lot of these guys were, you know, they, they would just like, you know, get these cheap homes,

01:09:35.520 um, fill them with as many addicts as they could.

01:09:38.800 Um, sometimes they would charge rent like 75 bucks a week or something like that.

01:09:42.680 Plus the money they're getting from, uh, you know, kickbacks from the, uh, whichever treatment

01:09:46.980 center they send them to.

01:09:48.200 So, you know, they're housed, they send them, and then, and then if they go to detox, you

01:09:52.840 know, the kickback, it's, it's a revolving door of chaos and, you know, revolving door

01:09:58.380 of suffering and just pain for the addict.

01:10:01.660 And, uh, and, but they're making money at every stop. 0.89

01:10:06.060 This is disgusting. 0.61

01:10:07.700 It is. 0.95

01:10:08.020 Do the addicts in the rehab center understand that they are pawns in a profit making scheme?

01:10:15.280 I think, uh, a lot of people were starting to wake up to it.

01:10:17.860 And I, and I knew one of the girls who was, um, one of his victims and she would, she was

01:10:24.240 always like, man, I just want to get the hell out of here.

01:10:26.980 And she had this like look in her, like, I could see that there was something.

01:10:30.780 And I thought she was just very like, you know, maybe had some, some issues with her family

01:10:35.180 or whatever, just a very depressed, sad person, even for an addict, even for an addict.

01:10:39.140 Like I could tell that there was something like she was in absolute, like misery and

01:10:45.240 terror.

01:10:46.080 She was afraid of, they were afraid, many people were afraid of him and what he would do if

01:10:50.900 they spoke out.

01:10:52.880 And, uh, it was just, it was heartbreaking for me to see that.

01:10:57.560 Uh, you know, even as someone who's, you know, obviously committed crimes and things like

01:11:02.420 that, I, I can't even imagine having the, the, the, the will to carry out such a monstrous

01:11:09.860 act is, yeah.

01:11:11.400 It's, it's, it tells you a lot.

01:11:14.640 So, I mean, that many rehabs, you met a lot of people.

01:11:19.100 What did you learn about addicts?

01:11:20.800 Addicts are some of the most resourceful, intelligent people on the planet.

01:11:28.180 Like you drop an addict in the middle of the, the desert and they're going to find the nearest,

01:11:33.160 um, tribe, um, with an opium pipe, uh, you know, within 30 minutes.

01:11:37.500 Um, and so if you get, they're single-minded, aren't they?

01:11:41.980 Well, yeah, but if you get them to, uh, if you can, you know, separate them from the drug

01:11:48.800 and separate them from the addiction and turn that into something that's good, like,

01:11:54.540 you know, an addiction to work or addiction to helping others, you know, that you can get

01:11:58.580 addicted to, like, I mean, for me, um, the, the reason I got sober, I think there's, uh,

01:12:07.040 several factors that played into it.

01:12:09.460 Obviously God, uh, you know, and, um, and the intrinsic motivation, you know, that I talked

01:12:15.940 about, uh, and, and having a fantastic support system that was there for me.

01:12:21.500 They were just waiting for me to come to them, you know, just like, Hey, we're here.

01:12:27.880 Just, you know, family.

01:12:28.900 Yeah.

01:12:29.120 My family and, um, and, um, one of the, uh, one halfway house owner who was kind of

01:12:36.400 participating in this game, but he cared, like he cared.

01:12:38.680 He genuinely cared about the people who were coming to his house.

01:12:41.360 He did not allow any drug use or anything like that.

01:12:44.500 There was, I was at one place that was selling this, this guy was selling crack to his clients

01:12:49.920 at the halfway house.

01:12:51.720 No way.

01:12:52.360 Yes.

01:12:52.960 And he was selling crack to just people in general. 0.99

01:12:55.380 So we would get knocks on our doors at three o'clock in the morning from total fucking spun 0.99

01:12:59.680 out crack heads. 0.99

01:13:01.200 Come on.

01:13:02.240 Yeah.

01:13:02.580 No, man.

01:13:03.260 And there was no door on the bathroom that it was a hundred, you know, it was the middle

01:13:07.680 of the summer in South Florida.

01:13:09.560 It's like 110 degrees out, no air conditioning, just fans littering the, you know, littered

01:13:14.340 across the living room and down the hallways and stuff. 1.00

01:13:16.840 And I mean, just an absolute shit show. 0.99

01:13:19.960 And people are smoking crack in the halfway house. 1.00

01:13:21.920 Yeah.

01:13:22.180 His rule was, you know, fine line, no needles.

01:13:25.900 Like, yeah, you can smoke crack.

01:13:27.540 You can smoke whatever you want.

01:13:28.460 Just no needles.

01:13:29.180 Like, all right.

01:13:30.600 Yeah.

01:13:30.720 Did you smoke crack in the halfway house? 0.57

01:13:32.680 Yeah.

01:13:32.860 A couple of times.

01:13:34.060 Yeah.

01:13:34.420 What do you think of crack?

01:13:35.240 Uh, I'd say it is, it's very destructive, um, obviously, but in terms of like a high,

01:13:42.980 it's, it's like you're, it's like 30 minutes of like, I can, you know, kind of that I can

01:13:48.780 conquer the world.

01:13:49.880 You want to start doing all these like different tasks that you've been putting off, like, because

01:13:53.860 you feel confident about them now, but then it wears off and then you're just like so depressed

01:13:59.040 and you think about every bad thing you've ever, it's like, uh, yeah, like, um, I don't

01:14:03.360 know if you've ever had like cocaine withdrawal, like, or, you know, just coming off of cocaine

01:14:07.600 after like a night of bender.

01:14:09.160 Like my dad would tell me that when he would do coke, like, he was just like, you think

01:14:12.240 about like, yeah, in third grade when I pushed that kid, you know, uh, again, into the stairwell

01:14:16.980 or whatever, uh, just like every, you know, and just like, you just feel like a piece of 0.89

01:14:21.360 garbage and you're depressed. 0.98

01:14:22.860 Yes. 1.00

01:14:23.200 And, uh.

01:14:23.720 You, you pay for every happy moment.

01:14:25.580 Yes.

01:14:26.100 Yes.

01:14:26.500 And, and, and the crack, it lasts, it's like the, it, the high is so fleeting too.

01:14:31.400 Like with heroin, at least you get like a few good hours of, you know, a solid buzz, but

01:14:36.240 with crack, it's like, uh, you know, it goes away relatively fast.

01:14:41.660 Did you, how many people in rehab or halfway houses did you meet who were determined to get

01:14:45.520 sober?

01:14:50.060 Not very many.

01:14:50.980 How, um, every person, I think without exception, I know who's been addicted to drugs or alcohol

01:14:58.380 who got better has a sense that there's, what does he say in AA, a great, you know, a greater

01:15:03.280 power that there's God.

01:15:04.860 Yeah, absolutely.

01:15:05.840 And that, you know, human beings have souls and each one is unique and important and life

01:15:11.300 is important and life is better than death.

01:15:13.360 And, you know, it's sort of like the basic branding of monotheism.

01:15:17.260 So, like how big a role did God play in any of these rehab centers?

01:15:22.160 Well, well, when I was, so I was living in the, the halfway house, I was selling, the guy 0.97

01:15:26.280 was selling crack to, to us and, um, I had, I just smoked some marijuana for the first time

01:15:31.560 in a long time.

01:15:32.140 And it made me like very introspective, you know, we can do that, um, say kind of like

01:15:37.360 psychedelics too, too.

01:15:38.340 Um, and, and I was like, you know, I just, I, and I heard a voice in my head that I can

01:15:43.320 only assume is just, you know, a spiritual awakening God saying like, what are you doing?

01:15:47.940 What are you doing?

01:15:48.740 Why are you here surrounded by these people?

01:15:51.140 Like looking around, I'm just like, I have so much more to offer the world than what I'm,

01:15:57.020 you know, I mean, I've, I'm just a derelict and I don't have to be.

01:16:00.580 I have people who love me.

01:16:01.800 I have people who would, you know, would die for me.

01:16:04.760 Uh, you know, my family is, you know, uh, you know, are so loyal, uh, and they love me so much. 0.99

01:16:12.220 They just want me to stop being a piece of, piece of garbage. 0.88

01:16:15.380 And, uh, and I just, that day I was like, I am done with this stuff. 0.99

01:16:19.740 It's not fun anymore.

01:16:22.300 Like, and, and I, and I wanted to better myself.

01:16:26.460 That was, so, you know, I think that was God instilling the motivation.

01:16:31.740 So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I got sober at a crack house.

01:16:36.280 It's kind of funny, you know, tried 50 different rehab centers, but ended up, you know, getting

01:16:41.600 sober at a crack house.

01:16:42.960 Um, but I think that that's, yeah, it was.

01:16:46.860 So you were smoking weed in the halfway house.

01:16:48.700 Yeah.

01:16:48.960 He didn't care about it.

01:16:49.580 Yeah.

01:16:49.860 And yeah, you could smoke anything you wanted in there pretty much.

01:16:52.760 Um, and, uh, yeah, I was just like that day.

01:16:57.580 I knew I was never going to touch an opiate again.

01:16:59.540 And I know people say like, you, you have to wake up and make a decision every day that

01:17:02.900 you're not going to use, but it's like, I don't even, it doesn't even like register in

01:17:06.180 my mind.

01:17:06.720 Like, like to fit, to say it, like, oh, I'm not going to use heroin today because like,

01:17:12.000 you know what I mean?

01:17:12.580 You know what I'm saying?

01:17:13.220 I do know what you're saying.

01:17:14.180 Yeah.

01:17:14.640 It's like, because it's like, I look back and I'm like, that's, I'm a different person.

01:17:18.800 I'm truly a different person.

01:17:20.200 I, I have like evolved.

01:17:21.420 It was like a powder pillar becoming a butterfly or, you know, whatever analogy you want to

01:17:26.380 use, but, um, just, and looking back and thinking, how could I have possibly done all this?

01:17:33.400 And, uh, and yeah, I mean, Christ plays a huge role, uh, and I think it's really important.

01:17:39.860 And even for people who are, excuse me, uh, you know, maybe atheistic or whatever, but

01:17:47.280 just believing in something greater than yourself that can, uh, that, you know, you can strive

01:17:54.760 to be better and strive to, you know, just whatever, set goals for yourself and achieve

01:18:00.720 them.

01:18:00.980 And by doing that, you are, you know, I think that's how people can, can find a way out of

01:18:09.340 addiction and then, and then you grasp onto something, find things that you really enjoy.

01:18:13.560 So like what, I was like, okay, what do I enjoy?

01:18:16.080 I like, I love movies.

01:18:17.360 I'm a huge movie fanatic and I like, I'm really interested in politics and journalism.

01:18:21.520 And ironically, what, I mean, I was always, uh, you know, my, like Fox news was on my parents

01:18:28.500 television 24 seven, you know, so I grew up conservative.

01:18:30.660 My grandmother, um, was a, uh, door knocker for, um, uh, for Reagan and for, um, 0.98

01:18:39.340 Bush, someone else.

01:18:40.600 I can't think.

01:18:41.120 Um, no, the, he was the first, the first conservative to run.

01:18:45.060 He didn't win.

01:18:45.740 Um, Goldwater.

01:18:46.820 Oh yeah.

01:18:47.140 Goldwater.

01:18:47.600 Yeah.

01:18:47.780 1964.

01:18:48.520 Yeah.

01:18:48.720 Goldwater.

01:18:49.120 Yeah.

01:18:49.960 And, um, so yeah, politics kind of is in my DNA, I would say.

01:18:56.260 And, uh, I remember watching Fox in the lead up to the presidential election.

01:19:00.880 It was like the perfect time to be, get interested in politics, right?

01:19:04.900 Uh, you've got Trump and Hillary Clinton.

01:19:07.580 And, and then, uh, I remember seeing you and I was like, and I'm not just saying this

01:19:13.280 because I'm on your podcast.

01:19:14.200 This is genuinely, genuinely the truth.

01:19:16.680 I saw you on, you know, your show.

01:19:19.140 And I was like, I, I like, I love the way this guy does the news.

01:19:23.180 It's, it's different.

01:19:24.160 It's unique.

01:19:24.740 It's funny.

01:19:25.740 It's like, I want to do something like that.

01:19:27.600 I want it.

01:19:28.040 That's what I want to do.

01:19:28.780 You're like, here's a Southern Californian who had addiction problems and he turned out.

01:19:33.560 Okay.

01:19:34.140 And you're like, Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:19:37.360 I didn't, I didn't know all that about you.

01:19:39.880 No, I was just like, I was just like, wow, this guy is like so much different than the

01:19:43.980 other voices on Fox, you know?

01:19:45.420 I mean, not to, you know, I mean, you know, you just had, it brings such a unique perspective.

01:19:52.180 You're willing to, you know, uh, go against, you know, you quote unquote, the party and

01:19:57.520 call out the, you know, the rhinos and neocons and all that stuff.

01:20:00.100 And I was just like, he's, he's awesome.

01:20:01.980 Like, this is great.

01:20:03.900 And so let me ask you like a philosophical question.

01:20:08.260 So in between jobs, once I got fired from another job, I was an unpaid fellow at a libertarian

01:20:14.380 think tank in DC.

01:20:15.360 And I thought it was a libertarian sort of am libertarian in a lot of ways still, you

01:20:20.700 know, I really don't want to bother other people, but I, I left after a drug policy conference

01:20:27.020 that I went to that really kind of changed my thinking on the world.

01:20:29.520 And at it, they explained the libertarian position on drug policy, which is kind of America's

01:20:33.840 position on drug policy, which is, it's the drug addicts fault.

01:20:37.480 Like people get addicted to drugs.

01:20:39.160 That's their problem.

01:20:40.060 That's their fault.

01:20:41.100 And it's kind of the demand explanation for the drug epidemic.

01:20:45.300 It's like, we have a lot of drugs because people want a lot of drugs in this country.

01:20:48.400 It's not Mexico or China's fault or the drug dealers. 0.80

01:20:51.160 Yeah.

01:20:51.200 No, the, the, the, um, yeah, the desire for it.

01:20:54.320 Like, yeah.

01:20:54.820 And, and that's what Mexico says.

01:20:56.460 It's like, if you people didn't want it so badly, you know, it's, and I thought, you

01:21:01.160 know, that makes sense.

01:21:01.980 I mean, it's kind of like one of those lines you hear, they're like, yeah, that sounds

01:21:04.700 right.

01:21:05.360 And then you think of your own life and then you think of the people, you know, who 0.98

01:21:10.740 got, you know, tragically fucked up or killed by drugs. 0.81

01:21:13.560 And I, of course I know a lot of them and you think, no, actually, like some of them are 0.58

01:21:19.460 like your mom, super healthy person, obviously a distance runner, the healthiest person like

01:21:24.500 in America, you know, they're distance runners.

01:21:27.040 And she has an injury and some doctor gives her a drug and she becomes an addict.

01:21:31.500 Yeah.

01:21:31.720 And my, and my dad, literally one time he went into the office and he grabbed the guy by

01:21:36.040 hit, like threw him up against the wall. 1.00

01:21:37.380 He's like, you're poisoning my fucking wife. 1.00

01:21:39.440 Good for your dad. 1.00

01:21:40.300 Yeah.

01:21:40.580 And, and, um, I should say your parents, such a beautiful, you told me off camera are still

01:21:44.660 married, which is so beautiful.

01:21:46.260 Married for four, married for 40 plus years.

01:21:49.260 And, uh, that's incredible.

01:21:51.100 And, uh, yeah, they've, yeah, they're in love.

01:21:54.020 I mean, they're a true, a genuine love story.

01:21:57.340 That's the best part of this whole story.

01:21:58.960 And the reason, just really quick, the reason my dad fell in love with my mom, like at first

01:22:03.020 sight was because he said she was the only woman in New York he saw that was wearing

01:22:06.800 a crucifix, like he, that he'd seen in New York.

01:22:08.960 So he's like, he's like, yeah, she's the one.

01:22:12.180 They sound like great people.

01:22:14.160 Great people.

01:22:14.420 Oh, you would love, you would love my dad.

01:22:15.260 Oh, I can tell.

01:22:15.940 I can tell.

01:22:16.820 I'd like to throw a few doctors against the wall myself. 0.99

01:22:19.560 But okay.

01:22:20.200 So then there's that.

01:22:21.280 And then there's your story, which is like insecure high school kid.

01:22:25.280 Like how many high school kids are not insecure?

01:22:27.060 Right.

01:22:27.540 Zero.

01:22:28.440 Like the feelings that you described, like, I don't quite fit in.

01:22:31.320 I don't know if I'm cool or not.

01:22:32.700 Every single kid has that feeling at 15.

01:22:34.780 So you're not unique in that way.

01:22:36.480 And someone's like, hey, try this.

01:22:39.080 And then you become like a crazed, you know, needle dependent heroin addict and you're pepper 0.97

01:22:45.120 spraying members, the Mexican mafia and almost getting killed. 0.93

01:22:47.600 So like within a year.

01:22:49.840 So that suggests to me that what we have is a supply problem, not a demand problem.

01:22:54.380 Like you're in it, you know, you probably would have been happy with Bud Light or Coors Light

01:22:58.320 or whatever.

01:22:59.040 Yeah.

01:22:59.740 And instead you wind up on heroin because you had access to this drug.

01:23:05.060 So if you take 100 people and give them heroin every day for a month, like what percentage

01:23:10.500 become junkies?

01:23:11.480 Like, well, all of them.

01:23:12.520 Yeah.

01:23:12.820 Yeah.

01:23:13.080 So for sure it was I was just thinking this at this drug policy conference and I was like, 0.95

01:23:17.380 actually, you're all liars. 0.95

01:23:19.920 Probably getting paid by Purdue Pharma to lie. 1.00

01:23:22.080 And it's the Cato Institute and they're definitely liars.

01:23:25.240 I can say that now, but I didn't understand it until because this is the one topic I knew

01:23:29.760 something about having lived it.

01:23:32.200 But like, what is the answer to this problem that kills over 100,000 people a year?

01:23:39.600 Like from like a from like a government perspective?

01:23:41.620 Yeah, like what are we it seems like we're paying addicts to use drugs.

01:23:45.100 That's kind of my perspective.

01:23:46.500 Yeah.

01:23:46.840 I mean, I mean, I think that one thing we should not be doing is what California is doing and

01:23:52.480 trying to do set up like little basically porter pot, porter potties for addicts to go in and,

01:23:56.960 you know, use and, you know, like little centers with clean needles and all that stuff.

01:24:03.080 And I get it.

01:24:03.740 That's what you encourage people.

01:24:04.760 Yeah, exactly.

01:24:05.320 You don't coddle and and enable drug addicts.

01:24:10.940 You that is the worst thing you can do because they're just going to continue using.

01:24:16.020 And heroin is not a drug that you can use like and like it's not like a, you know,

01:24:22.340 because there's a lot of functional alcoholics and functional, you know, people who, you know,

01:24:27.100 are on like, you know, Valium or whatever, you know, kind of pill poppers that that, you

01:24:32.500 know, you would never know.

01:24:34.160 But yeah, heroin, I just I've never seen anyone who doesn't it doesn't become a lifestyle.

01:24:39.760 It's not it's not like a side thing, you know, or hobby or whatever.

01:24:44.140 It is your life.

01:24:45.520 It is all consuming.

01:24:47.680 What destroys you as a human being.

01:24:49.580 Yeah.

01:24:50.100 And same with meth.

01:24:51.320 Oh, yeah.

01:24:52.180 Yeah.

01:24:52.620 Meth, like inside and out to heroin doesn't quite like do the damage to your like your

01:24:59.840 complexion.

01:25:01.000 Yeah, outwardly.

01:25:01.700 But like inwardly, it's I think it's worse.

01:25:04.100 But but meth is, yeah, absolutely terrible.

01:25:06.420 Were you around a lot of meth people?

01:25:08.180 Oh, yeah.

01:25:08.700 And so in northern California, because we moved to northern California after when I was when

01:25:16.640 I was 18.

01:25:17.220 I remember my dad came down to San Diego because I was in rehab in San Diego and he picked

01:25:22.440 me up and we drove north to where to the Bay Area to the East Bay.

01:25:29.640 We lived in Concord.

01:25:30.520 Yeah.

01:25:30.700 Yeah.

01:25:30.840 And because my grandmother lived in Lafayette.

01:25:35.520 Yep.

01:25:35.800 I know it.

01:25:36.540 And she was.

01:25:38.320 Those were nice towns.

01:25:39.240 I don't know if they still are, but they were.

01:25:40.580 Well, Concord has been kind of been taken over by there's a lot of gang activity.

01:25:45.000 Oh, God.

01:25:45.420 And like like and it borders Clayton, too.

01:25:48.360 So they're like, I think they're probably going to do something about it because Clayton's

01:25:51.060 like a really nice area.

01:25:52.080 So they're probably going to start cracking down more because, you know, the rich people

01:25:55.360 are being affected.

01:25:56.060 So now it's a problem.

01:25:56.860 You know, and so, yeah, so we moved up there and again, I started associating with the worst

01:26:06.100 of the worst that just, you know, gangbanging meth heads.

01:26:09.560 And I'd never tried meth before.

01:26:11.800 And I remember I was just at this guy's house and he pulls out a pipe like, all right.

01:26:17.540 Yeah.

01:26:17.920 Try it.

01:26:18.420 See what the see what the fuss is about.

01:26:21.240 And I like I.

01:26:23.320 You're an open minded young man.

01:26:26.860 Yeah.

01:26:28.840 So, you know, I didn't necessarily love it.

01:26:31.800 It wasn't this like, oh, yeah, I need this.

01:26:33.720 But my but but like my became my best friend was it was a dealer.

01:26:39.160 So he always had it.

01:26:40.640 So it's like I would always just, yeah, take it like a puff or two.

01:26:45.240 There was one point where I stayed up for 12 days straight and then slept for eight hours

01:26:50.180 and stayed up for another sort of total of 17 days.

01:26:53.760 So, yeah, another five days.

01:26:55.360 And because doing heroin and meth, it's like like meth when you're like basically like,

01:27:04.040 you know, you're up for a day or two, you start to get weird seeing shadow people and

01:27:08.220 shit like that.

01:27:09.760 Then you do heroin and it's like it's like resets you almost. 0.99

01:27:12.860 It's kind of like it's like it's like you it's like almost like you slept a little bit and your

01:27:16.760 brain's like back to normal and it's not going into crazy mode.

01:27:21.100 I have seen meth heads like I remember this one story.

01:27:26.060 So I was we were at this girl's house in her garage and as myself, our dealer and this

01:27:35.040 chick and she had, you know, just all of her face scratching it from scratching. 1.00

01:27:40.640 She she looked like it's terrifying. 0.64

01:27:43.660 But I'd been kicked out of my house.

01:27:45.940 So we were just chilling there.

01:27:47.480 You know, we're just going, you know, from place to place trying to, you know, find a

01:27:51.720 spot to, you know, kick it and rest or whatever.

01:27:53.880 And so we're smoking in there for like three, four hours.

01:27:56.500 And her and my friend go into the bathroom or inside or inside her house.

01:28:02.960 And I just kind of like sit back and I end up like falling asleep.

01:28:07.580 And I didn't realize I was like, I woke up and I was like, I had no idea how long I'd

01:28:11.500 been asleep, like 30 seconds, 30 minutes, whatever.

01:28:14.600 And there was no one in the garage.

01:28:16.100 So I like knock on the garage and not garage door kind of peek my head in.

01:28:21.500 I'm like, hey, what are you guys doing?

01:28:23.800 And she comes out.

01:28:25.720 She's like, close the door.

01:28:27.180 I'm like, OK.

01:28:27.840 And then she comes out.

01:28:29.340 She's like, what what are you doing in my in my house?

01:28:32.480 My kids are in there.

01:28:33.420 And I'm like, oh, my God, you have kids.

01:28:37.180 And she's like, yeah, what did you steal?

01:28:39.540 What did you steal?

01:28:40.240 And I'm like, I didn't steal anything.

01:28:41.620 And then she pulls out a handgun.

01:28:44.320 Yeah.

01:28:44.800 And like, it's this switch that flips for some people.

01:28:47.800 It's never happened to me.

01:28:49.380 But this flip that switches and you they just become in a totally different, irrational,

01:28:56.200 dangerous human being.

01:28:58.140 And so so this woman has a gun pointed at me and she's like, I want she's like, empty 1.00

01:29:03.400 your pockets, blah, blah, blah.

01:29:04.580 And I I went like this and pulled out like, you know, I was like, look, I didn't steal

01:29:08.480 anything from you.

01:29:09.360 What would I steal?

01:29:10.520 I poked my head into your place for two seconds. 1.00

01:29:12.560 And I'm like, by the way, if you have your kids sleeping in there, you're kind of a shitty 1.00

01:29:16.600 mom. 0.99

01:29:17.320 You know, because I'm like, so you insult the lady with the gun pointed at you. 1.00

01:29:21.020 Because I was thinking another if I can just ask you to pause, Chris, another unwise decision.

01:29:25.400 Yes, yes.

01:29:26.600 But I was thinking I was like, this woman isn't going to pull the trigger. 1.00

01:29:29.840 It was a neighborhood that the houses were like right next to each other.

01:29:32.900 The police station was like down the street.

01:29:35.620 You're betting that the meth head is rational.

01:29:38.260 I don't know what I was thinking.

01:29:39.440 I was just angry and I was high, too.

01:29:41.840 So, you know, I'm not exactly in the best, you know, decision making frame of mind. 0.99

01:29:46.740 But anyways, so she's like, she's like, take your fucking clothes off. 1.00

01:29:51.380 I want to make sure you didn't steal anything. 1.00

01:29:52.620 I'm like, fuck you. 1.00

01:29:54.120 Sorry. 1.00

01:29:54.920 Yeah, no, no, no, please. 1.00

01:29:56.120 I'm like, fuck you. 1.00

01:29:57.140 You're out of your fucking mind. 1.00

01:29:59.280 I was like, I didn't steal a fucking thing from you. 1.00

01:30:01.940 I was like, you're not going to shoot me. 0.99

01:30:04.080 So how about you just let us fucking leave? 0.97

01:30:06.420 And so, and I'm like, and I'm looking at my friend and I'm like, dude, and he's just 0.98

01:30:13.200 standing there.

01:30:14.480 Like, this guy was a piece of work. 0.99

01:30:17.320 Like, so that night, so she's like, all right, get the fuck out of here. 0.97

01:30:21.320 And she opens her garage up for us and we leave.

01:30:24.180 And my friend calls an Uber and the Uber, like the, her phone died in the middle of the

01:30:31.760 ride.

01:30:32.460 And so like the trip got canceled.

01:30:34.640 And so the woman who was driving us was like, get out, get out of my car right now. 1.00

01:30:39.320 And, uh, we were like, uh, still like a couple of miles from our destination, uh, his sister's

01:30:46.360 house. 0.99

01:30:47.120 And, uh, he, and I was like, oh shit. 0.99

01:30:49.480 And he's like, oh, don't worry. 0.99

01:30:50.540 I have a spot we can go to.

01:30:51.840 And I'm like, okay.

01:30:52.660 And so we walk up the street, um, and there's this house and, uh, he's like, yeah, um, I forget

01:31:01.400 who he said owned it, but, um, he's like, yeah, it's cool if we crash here and he tries

01:31:05.820 to open the front door.

01:31:06.500 It's not locked.

01:31:06.980 He's like, all right, let me go around the back.

01:31:08.360 And he's like rummaging around, he's rummaging around in the backyard and I'm standing in

01:31:12.660 the front, just sitting on the steps.

01:31:14.280 Cause I didn't think there was anything sketchy and this car drives by and it kind of slows

01:31:19.460 down and, um, and then it keeps going and I'm like, huh, that was weird.

01:31:26.860 And then it loops back and then stops. 0.99

01:31:30.480 And I was like, oh shit. 0.99

01:31:31.840 So I had a backpack with me. 0.98

01:31:33.440 I grabbed my backpack, hopped the fence into the backyard and I was like, Hey dude, someone's

01:31:38.080 here.

01:31:38.760 And he takes off.

01:31:41.360 Um, and I'm running and I, it's like, it's four, it's like four in the morning in Northern

01:31:48.140 California in the winter.

01:31:49.200 And I'm running and it's pitch black and I fall into a pool.

01:31:53.880 Um, it was, this was like one of the worst nights of my life and I was in, and I was

01:31:58.880 in a low key opiate withdrawal too on top of all of that. 0.66

01:32:02.260 On top of the meth and the crazy girl pointing the gun at you. 1.00

01:32:05.440 Yeah.

01:32:05.660 And that's why I was so irritable.

01:32:06.940 And probably if I, yeah, if I had been, you know, if I was on heroin, it probably would

01:32:11.340 have gone down a lot differently, but, uh, I probably wouldn't have been as aggressive,

01:32:14.420 but I was so, you know, ticked off.

01:32:16.520 Um, and so, uh, I, uh, fall in the pool.

01:32:21.160 Um, I see flashlights like coming towards us and this guy has, has already booked it

01:32:27.500 like over, um, over a fence and he's gone.

01:32:32.120 Like he is gone.

01:32:33.680 Um, and so I, I like, I, um, get out of the pool and I try to climb the fence and I still

01:32:40.700 have my backpack on and, you know, like soaking wet and I couldn't climb.

01:32:44.240 It was too heavy.

01:32:44.780 So I just shed the backpack and just hop the fence and I'm running down this hill and, um,

01:32:51.640 and I run face first into a, um, chain link fence.

01:32:56.720 It's like a dream sequence.

01:32:58.080 And, um, and my face is like, you know, so now my face is bleeding and my hands are bleeding

01:33:04.520 from climbing the fence and like, I, and, uh, I don't have any shoes on.

01:33:08.600 And, um, so, so I am just so cold and so miserable.

01:33:14.420 And so I, there was a, like a hill and then there was a grocery store, kind of a little strip

01:33:20.000 mall type place.

01:33:21.180 And so I go down there and I look for the sketchiest person possible.

01:33:26.540 Like, you know, just, you can tell.

01:33:30.220 Yeah.

01:33:30.540 Yeah.

01:33:30.920 They're my, using my radar and, uh, and I was like, Hey man, can I use your phone to call

01:33:35.220 a tack?

01:33:35.560 Cause I knew if I asked any normal person, they saw me with blood on my face and no shoes

01:33:39.400 on. 0.99

01:33:40.020 They'd be like, uh, get the fuck away from me, sir, please. 0.98

01:33:43.280 Um, but, uh, no, they were, uh, they were really nice. 0.84

01:33:48.340 They, um, let me use their phone and I called a taxi, jumped into the taxi.

01:33:53.800 I was like, please turn the heat up as high as you can.

01:33:56.460 And I, uh, went home and at first my parents weren't going to let me in.

01:34:03.300 And, um, I was like, listen, I'm, I'm probably going to get hypothermia if you don't let me

01:34:07.360 in, please.

01:34:07.860 I was like, I will do whatever you want.

01:34:09.300 I will go anywhere.

01:34:10.160 I just, please.

01:34:10.880 I, and I remember like going into their room and just like wrapping myself up in a, in

01:34:15.920 a giant blanket.

01:34:16.680 And, and I was, there was like, I'd never felt so, um, relieved in my life.

01:34:21.960 Did you ever figure out who was chasing you?

01:34:25.540 Um, I think it was someone who, uh, like, because the house, it turns out the house was

01:34:30.580 for rent and it was, uh, it was, um, there was no one in it.

01:34:35.520 And so I didn't, you know, of course I didn't know that he said, yeah, this is a spot that

01:34:40.520 we can go to.

01:34:41.100 I just assumed it was another dope fiends, another dope fiends place.

01:34:47.160 Um, and so yeah, all that.

01:34:50.160 And, you know, one thing that really breaks my heart is like, it's really the, yeah, uh,

01:34:56.720 one of the most, I'd say difficult things that I had to accept that I did was, um, cause

01:35:03.080 my dad would from time to time figure out where I was and go to these, you know, these

01:35:09.340 crack houses and, and places like that and beg me to come home.

01:35:13.840 And I remember one time specifically, he said, please, please, Chris, please come home.

01:35:20.620 Like your family loves you, please.

01:35:23.380 In tears.

01:35:24.360 And, and my dad doesn't cry.

01:35:26.200 Um, uh, and, and I was just like, no.

01:35:31.060 And he's like, okay, well at least take, and he gave me his, um, his crucifix and, uh, St.

01:35:37.760 Christopher medal.

01:35:39.260 Um, I still have, I broke the chain, but I still have them today, uh, to this day.

01:35:44.420 And, uh, gosh, even then it tore me up, you know, because I, I just wasn't ready to stop.

01:35:53.200 And I didn't know, like, you know, I didn't want to cause this pain that, you know, and

01:35:57.560 suffering that my parents were feeling.

01:35:59.900 And so I drowned it out with this more use and, you know, to, to try to, um.

01:36:06.460 You can see how that happens.

01:36:08.180 Yeah.

01:36:08.740 So when you quit 2016, how long did it take to get back your equilibrium for your brain

01:36:18.200 to start functioning as it had before you started using opioids?

01:36:22.180 Um, honestly, I don't know that it will, it, it has ever gotten back to where it was before,

01:36:28.620 but I think that it, it took about, I would say like nine months to a year to like, get

01:36:36.060 like the, all like to get the fog out and like, you know, have like, cause like my memory

01:36:41.860 was shot, just everything was like depleted.

01:36:45.700 And so in order to get, you know, to get those receptors and everything firing again and to

01:36:51.620 get my brain back to where it needed to be.

01:36:53.500 Yeah.

01:36:53.780 I just, um, it was hard.

01:36:56.700 What are the long-term, longer term effects?

01:36:59.860 Um, I would say, I'd say memory loss is definitely a thing.

01:37:03.060 Um, equilibrium, like I have a very bad equilibrium.

01:37:06.640 Like people think I'm drunk sometimes because I'll like stumble, but it's just like, no, I'm

01:37:11.300 just, uh, yeah, my equilibrium's off.

01:37:14.000 And, uh, I mean, obviously, you know, long-term like things like anxiety, you know, you know,

01:37:20.260 it's ironic because a lot of people use heroin to treat their anxiety and, um, but it causes,

01:37:26.800 you know, again, it's the rebound effect.

01:37:28.720 Um, uh, and, uh, so yeah, anxiety, depression, um, just, yeah, a myriad of bad things.

01:37:38.300 Have you known, you know, people addicted to opioids and have heard that it affects your

01:37:42.580 ability to feel happiness once you're off it?

01:37:46.700 Yeah.

01:37:47.220 I would say that, yeah, I didn't, I always, and I, you know, and, and even to this day,

01:37:52.360 like have this kind of sense sometimes of like imposter syndrome.

01:37:56.780 Like I like, you know, you know, for example, like getting a job in Congress, working for

01:38:03.180 Matt Gaetz and having Matt Gaetz compliment me and tell me and say all these nice things

01:38:07.220 about me.

01:38:07.620 It's like, I don't feel like I deserve this praise, you know?

01:38:13.060 I mean, sure.

01:38:14.540 I'm a, like, I'm a decent person, but yeah, I, it's like, I, it took me a while to just

01:38:20.520 understand that like, yeah, I am worthy of these.

01:38:23.300 I have achieved a lot.

01:38:25.400 I have been, you know, sure.

01:38:26.900 I've done a lot of bad things, but I've done everything I can to try to, you know, repair

01:38:31.380 the damage that I caused.

01:38:33.480 And so like, so no, I deserve, you know, it's just, it's hard to force yourself to, you know,

01:38:40.640 accept like, yeah, you're like, you're doing well.

01:38:43.360 Like just be, yes, you were, you were as bad as it could get, but you've turned it around.

01:38:49.080 And like, you know, I was, I was kind of nervous about this interview, but then I was like,

01:38:54.000 and I was talking to my dad and he's like, Chris, you stopped using heroin.

01:38:58.080 You can do an interview.

01:38:59.660 Yeah.

01:39:00.060 You know?

01:39:01.540 That's true.

01:39:02.580 Yeah.

01:39:03.020 And I mean, yeah, you know, it was, um, and again, like I go back to the intrinsic motivation.

01:39:10.020 It's just so important to want to level up in life.

01:39:13.620 And I think that like, you know, I kind of compare it to like the whole body positivity movement.

01:39:17.520 It's like, yeah, you're 40 pounds.

01:39:19.100 And I'm not talking about people with like medical issues, but like you're 40 pounds overweight.

01:39:23.960 No, you're perfect.

01:39:24.600 Just the way you are.

01:39:25.300 It's like, no, put the donut down, go to the gym.

01:39:27.400 Like, you know, stop, stop coddling people who are, you know, who have a food addiction.

01:39:33.000 Encouraging people to destroy themselves is the way I think about it.

01:39:35.660 Yeah.

01:39:35.940 Right.

01:39:36.260 Only, only people who are filled with hate would do that.

01:39:41.420 I don't care what they dress it up as.

01:39:43.060 If you're encouraging someone to hurt himself, you hate that person.

01:39:47.080 Right?

01:39:47.500 Yeah.

01:39:47.800 I mean, it seems so.

01:39:49.780 Well, obviously.

01:39:50.920 Yeah. 0.77

01:39:51.500 If you did that to your kids here, get type two diabetes here, become a junkie.

01:39:55.620 You would be a terrible parent, but you would be acting of hate for your kids.

01:39:59.800 Obviously.

01:40:00.260 Yeah.

01:40:00.860 Sinister.

01:40:01.560 It's, um.

01:40:02.100 It is sinister.

01:40:03.760 And, uh, you know, that's why, you know, like, you know, you see all these like Victoria's

01:40:07.000 Secret plus size, you know, it's like, and again, you shouldn't, you shouldn't do,

01:40:11.060 you shouldn't want to better yourself, you know, for societal acceptance, but for your

01:40:15.480 own sense of, you know, happiness and wellbeing and purpose, because you talk to any person

01:40:20.800 who's overweight, you know, and like, again, without medical conditions, um, like, obviously

01:40:25.760 they're going to say, yes, I would prefer to be, prefer to lose a few pounds.

01:40:28.700 I mean, I would assume I've never talked to every obese, I haven't talked to every obese

01:40:33.320 person on the planet, but the ones that I have talked to, yeah, I would like.

01:40:36.880 Well, they're tormented by it, of course.

01:40:38.620 They're tormented by it.

01:40:39.740 You don't feel good.

01:40:40.900 And, and, and, and, and, yeah, and like Victoria's Secret and these other places trying to tell

01:40:45.860 them, oh yeah, you're perfectly fine.

01:40:47.820 Keep doing what you're doing.

01:40:48.760 Don't change anything.

01:40:50.160 It's like, no.

01:40:50.800 It's evil, obviously.

01:40:52.180 Let's just call it what it is.

01:40:53.400 Yeah, it's, yeah.

01:40:53.580 All these things are.

01:40:54.580 They're.

01:40:54.840 Big pharma.

01:40:55.560 Yeah, I think.

01:40:56.160 Abedding the destruction of human beings.

01:40:57.860 And that's, that's the worst thing you can do in this life, in my opinion.

01:41:01.560 Absolutely.

01:41:02.400 Big pharma is the closest thing to like, you know, like if you just want to talk about

01:41:07.220 pure evil, like getting into the realm of demonically stick, big pharma is, I think,

01:41:14.100 the prime example, what they've done to this country.

01:41:16.540 I couldn't agree more.

01:41:17.780 Chris, thank you for spending all this time and for being so totally honest about your

01:41:20.980 story.

01:41:21.760 And I never say, I hope this helps people because it feels like so banal, but I do hope

01:41:26.560 this helps people.

01:41:27.460 Thank you.

01:41:27.940 I appreciate it, Tucker.

01:41:29.000 Thank you.

01:41:31.140 We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day.

01:41:37.560 We know the people who run it, good people.

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The Tucker Carlson Show - May 02, 2025

Chris Cella： Opioids, Robbing the Mafia, Burning Down the Entourage House, and How God Saved Him

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