The Tucker Carlson Show - Chris Williamson’s Advice to Men： How to Survive a World of OnlyFans and AI Girlfriends

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00:00:14.820 So you're in, first of all, thank you for doing this. You're in the middle of a nationwide tour

00:00:19.380 speaking live before big audiences, and there's a Q&A component in every gig, every performance,

00:00:26.940 and you're getting questions directly from young men. What kind of questions are you getting

00:00:32.420 consistently? A lot of them around directionlessness. I'm out of full-time education.

00:00:42.000 I'm in my early 20s, or I've just left a relationship, or I've worked for a while and

00:00:47.360 got myself to a state of success that felt unfulfilling to me, and I don't know where to

00:00:52.760 go. And I think that this sort of speaks to the lost archetypes, the train tracks, and the examples

00:01:00.600 that would have previously been laid out for young men. And directionlessness is a huge one.

00:01:06.620 Trying to find a balance between drive to improve and gratitude and self-love for the moment.

00:01:14.040 The sort of you are enough versus hustle bro blend. Guys want to be able to go and conquer. They want

00:01:20.100 to really achieve things in the world. But also they realize that if they're permanently looking

00:01:23.980 over the shoulder of the present moment, waiting to see what comes next, they might miss their lives.

00:01:29.720 You know, there's this idea called the delayed happiness hypothesis, which is basically that

00:01:35.620 as people move through life, they always promise that happiness will arrive when? Once I have got

00:01:43.600 the graduation, once I have got the next job, once I've got the girlfriend, once I've got the house,

00:01:47.920 once I've paid off the mortgage. And what you realize is that this idyll that you are running

00:01:52.580 toward is actually your death. And you've just speed ran your entire life. And I think that they're

00:01:57.340 becoming increasingly more aware of that, which is good. I think it's a balance between wanting to be

00:02:03.440 more and being enough already. And this is a tension that exists inside the mind of everyone,

00:02:08.540 but I think men especially. And those are two big challenges. I'm stuck in terms of direction.

00:02:15.480 I don't know where to go. And I'm trying to balance high standards with self-love.

00:02:20.860 I don't know where to go. So they've completed the task set before them. They made it through

00:02:26.760 in the U.S. 16 years of school. And they get all their little merit badges or whatever. They're

00:02:32.140 graded along the way. And everyone's so proud. And then they graduate and they kind of like,

00:02:38.680 they have no idea what to do.

00:02:40.200 I felt this. I did two degrees, a bachelor's and a master's at university with a year in industry

00:03:05.740 as well. So I was at uni for five full years. I was in full-time education for 18 years.

00:03:12.220 And it's kind of like being on a set of train tracks for a long time. And yeah, you're sort

00:03:16.800 of a passenger and you get to move up and down the carriage and contribute a little bit. And you know,

00:03:21.520 but the destination that you're going toward has been prescribed for you.

00:03:25.080 And then it's kind of like being thrown off the train into a car with no roads, just saying,

00:03:29.540 hey, good luck. Like try and find your way. And I think that the challenge is

00:03:33.160 a lot of the rules and the advice that would have worked for grandfathers and maybe even fathers

00:03:39.660 of these guys, the archetypes and the roles that they would have previously stepped into

00:03:47.020 aren't there in quite the same way. There's been a lot of structural changes

00:03:50.400 that have adjusted the landscape that men and boys exist in over the last 50 years.

00:03:56.240 And that means that a lot of the role models and examples and well-trodden paths don't feel

00:04:02.220 like they're there in the same kind of way. So navigating those structural changes as a young

00:04:06.820 man is not easy. So what did you take your degrees in? What did you study?

00:04:11.220 Bachelor's in business and a master's in international marketing. I can't remember either of them.

00:04:15.800 And then did you go into international business when you left school?

00:04:20.140 Not even remotely.

00:04:21.200 What did you do?

00:04:22.440 I sat down in my first ever seminar the week after Freshers' Week in the first week of university,

00:04:28.180 sat next to a guy and I said, I've spent all of my money partying in my first week of university.

00:04:35.380 I'm skint. I've run out of cash. I need a job. And he's like, well, I'm going to go and hand out

00:04:39.520 flyers for a nightclub. Maybe you could come and see if you can get a job doing the same thing.

00:04:45.280 That guy that I sat next to in my first seminar for quantitative methods,

00:04:48.380 15 years later was still my business partner. I was groomsman at his wedding. We did a million

00:04:54.500 lifetime entries throughout nightclubs together. So that one thing, that sort of chance meeting that

00:04:58.900 we had, I started running an events company and then got to the end of my twenties and

00:05:02.940 had a change, an existential change that meant that I started doing my podcast, Modern Wisdom.

00:05:10.900 Before that change happened, did you ever pause and think, hmm, I got a master's degree

00:05:16.460 in international business, but in real life, I'm a nightclub promoter and I'm succeeding.

00:05:22.340 I mean, you succeeded in the business. Correct. Yeah. So the disconnect between your training

00:05:27.880 and your work couldn't be more profound. To a degree. To fly the flag for the nightclub

00:05:34.820 promoters out there, it's a wonderful training ground for people to go into business and be

00:05:39.180 successful in business because you get a very broad perspective of how a business needs to

00:05:43.180 operate. HR, management, B2B, B2C, customer complaints, marketing. Oh, for sure.

00:05:47.980 It's that being said, I had a lot of fun. Uh, should I have perhaps realized before 30 that

00:05:59.500 maybe one pound Jager bombs was not my highest calling in life? Uh, perhaps, but I was having

00:06:05.260 a great time. Uh, I worked with people that I really loved. My business partner and me had

00:06:08.960 a fantastic relationship. So it was good, but yes, there is a... Well, I'm just wondering,

00:06:14.740 and I'm not in any way criticizing the job or, or any job that, you know, basically honorable job

00:06:20.900 that a man does. I is virtuous in my opinion. I'm questioning whether you needed to spend five

00:06:27.660 years in university to do that job. Probably not. No. Um, for me, the, uh, existing justification

00:06:35.080 for university is it's a good way to, it's like Navy seal hell week for three years of socialization.

00:06:43.380 Uh, you really get thrust into a lot of different experiences. You're living with new people.

00:06:47.780 You have to navigate friendships and relationships and makeups and breakups and use executive function.

00:06:52.500 Uh, perhaps you could do this if you got an apprenticeship or went into a job early,

00:06:55.960 but at least for me moving into halls of residence and having to work out who's paying for the electric

00:07:00.100 bill and I'm going to live with these new people and I've fallen out of friendship with this person

00:07:03.640 and I need to navigate administration, all this stuff. It, um, condensed down a lot of adulting

00:07:08.000 into a very short period of time. And I think I came to university at 18 as, um, pretty under

00:07:13.520 socialized and left at 23, like beyond totally ready to kind of dominate the adult world.

00:07:22.400 What advice do you give young men who ask you, uh, what direction should I take?

00:07:28.200 Uh, well, I think at least to start finding out what you're interested in is a good place to begin.

00:07:36.040 I mean, look, one of the problems of giving any advice to young men is that we need to do this strange

00:07:41.740 kind of land acknowledgement, this social land acknowledgement before we start. If me and you

00:07:49.520 were going to talk about the problems of young men, one of the first things we need to do or typically

00:07:53.840 that people expect is, well, it's very important for us to remember that women are still falling 1.00

00:07:58.160 behind in this area. And it's also important to remember that up until I can't even deal with

00:08:02.560 that. You understand what I mean though, right? I would never play along with that lie. There is

00:08:05.900 this odd expectation that in order to talk about the problems of men and boys, we first must identify

00:08:11.260 all of the other issues and plights of other more deserving groups. And this is something.

00:08:17.240 What world is it? I mean, I don't even, I'm amazed that that requirement still exists or anyone

00:08:21.640 takes it seriously. It's so absurd. Well, it's a shame. I think it's basically you saying,

00:08:28.620 I know I'm about to talk about a group that you think might have previously been in a privileged

00:08:33.460 position, but now it's really important that we talk about some of the shortcomings that they're

00:08:37.200 dealing with. I'm going to show that I am on side. I'm an ally and I understand how this is framed

00:08:44.240 in the broader context of whatever. This is something that I've become particularly frustrated with

00:08:48.140 the, this social land acknowledgement thing. The requirement to self-castrate before saying

00:08:52.820 obvious things. Yeah. And we don't do it in the opposite way, right? We don't say,

00:08:58.020 we're going to have a conversation about breast cancer, but it is important for us to remember

00:09:03.420 that male suicides account for nearly as many deaths as breast cancer do. And men are falling

00:09:07.620 behind in education and employment. And there have been these structures. And now that we have done

00:09:11.200 this, we can finally get onto talking about breast cancer.

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00:12:40.720 Z-asm. Has it occurred that there's a connection between these phenomena?

00:12:45.580 Which ones?

00:12:46.900 Well, that maybe men are in a dire state because they have been browbeaten and demoralized and

00:12:55.180 attacked for their immutable qualities that they can't control, that they were born with.

00:12:59.420 And this has gone on for like 40 years, and all it has done is destroyed men and make women crazy.

00:13:06.060 Like the whole thing is just terrible. It's like the worst thing that's happened

00:13:08.680 ever in the West. So like, maybe there's a reason men have no direction and are addicted to porn and 0.82

00:13:16.940 a million other things, because they're told constantly that their lives don't matter.

00:13:22.000 Yeah, well, I think we've seen a lot of structural changes. And what's really interesting is how this

00:13:29.320 is coming to land existentially, psychologically, like karmically within men. But the structural

00:13:34.680 changes are what I think kicked a lot of this going. So education and employment are the two big ones

00:13:39.980 for men. In education, it seems like the current education system was always set up in a manner that

00:13:47.900 women, girls were going to overperform in. They had the brakes put on them for a while with regards 1.00

00:13:52.940 to encouragement and their acceptance toward university. Girls are better to sit down. 1.00

00:13:59.220 They're good highlighter people. And they're more conscientious than boys are on average.

00:14:03.300 They're less rambunctious. They're good for if you need to sit quietly in a classroom for six hours a

00:14:07.620 day, they crush it. They absolutely crush it.

00:14:09.700 More obedience, less creativity.

00:14:11.760 And less disruption as well, which is a huge big deal, especially when most,

00:14:15.900 there are three times as many female fighter pilots in the US Air Force as there are male 0.84

00:14:21.480 kindergarten teachers in the United States. Two percent of kindergarten teachers are men. It's 0.75

00:14:26.480 about seven percent of fighter pilots are female. And this means that being able to deal with the 1.00

00:14:33.240 disruptions of young boys is tough. What this has resulted in is girls are starting to outstrip 1.00

00:14:40.940 in terms of performance boys. So since Title IX was introduced 50 years ago, which was to get

00:14:45.860 more girls into higher education, the gender gap between men and women then is smaller than it is

00:14:54.460 now, but it was in the other direction.

00:14:56.940 Yeah.

00:14:57.100 So there are fewer men going to college than women now than 50 years ago when Title IX was

00:15:03.800 introduced. So women have just blown through the glass ceiling that was supposed to be there. 1.00

00:15:07.300 And if you break it up by graduation rates, it's overwhelmingly female. 1.00

00:15:13.300 Seven times more men than women dropped out of college during COVID.

00:15:16.760 Right.

00:15:17.520 So all of that together means you have two women for every one man completing a four-year US

00:15:21.860 college degree.

00:15:22.820 Is that true? It's two to one.

00:15:24.220 Two to one. We're almost there. Some campuses, it's nearly three to one in terms of the ratio.

00:15:30.400 So you have education, more women than men completing a four-year US college degree by 0.98

00:15:35.480 a big distance. And that's going to just continue ticking up, ticking up, ticking up.

00:15:39.260 You then look at what's happened with employment. That's education. You look at what's happened

00:15:42.600 with employment. Well, we've moved from a brawn-based to a brain-based economy. It's become increasingly

00:15:49.140 credentialized, which means that the education piece is now more important than ever before.

00:15:53.400 So you have girls over-performing relatively in education and then moving into an employment 0.98

00:16:01.800 world, which also kind of needs more administrative know-how. Yes, some assertiveness that guys have

00:16:09.200 still got and some disagreeability is good for getting you promotions. But between the ages of

00:16:13.120 21 and 29, women on average earn £1,111 more than men do. So they're out-earning men too.

00:16:21.460 Not only are they educating, they're out-earning men. And this sort of altogether, the structural

00:16:26.000 changes of women in education and employment plus welfare state assisting single mothers

00:16:32.920 particularly has meant that guys go, well, what's my place? What's my role now? I feel surplus

00:16:40.680 to requirements. And women say, I'm not going to marry a man who makes less than I do. They don't want 1.00

00:16:44.840 to marry men who make less than they do. There's a million studies on this and it's noticeable just

00:16:49.680 from talking to women. They don't want to marry a man shorter than them and they don't want to marry 0.99

00:16:53.200 men who makes less. Sorry. There's an idea called the tall girl hypothesis, which I bro-scienced

00:17:00.460 into existence about four years ago. I got in a lot of trouble when I first started talking about this.

00:17:05.300 So if you were a six foot three woman, typically on average women want to date a guy taller than

00:17:10.440 them. You're looking at pro athletes, right? If you want to date, if you're a six foot three woman, 1.00

00:17:14.020 you want to wear heels at your wedding, like you're looking at dudes that are six, seven,

00:17:17.260 like you're looking at pro athletes. The point here is if you are a taller woman and want to date

00:17:22.760 up and across, there is a smaller cohort of men for you to be able to pick from. Yes.

00:17:27.960 Socioeconomically over the last 50 years, women have become taller. Socioeconomically, 0.99

00:17:32.460 they have grown. Exactly. Men have stagnated. And in some cases they've actually gotten a little bit

00:17:36.640 shorter. What this means is if women on average want to date a man who is as educated or more than them

00:17:41.600 and as wealthy or more than them, but women are now out earning and out educating men who have an

00:17:47.200 ever increasing group of high performing women competing for ever decreasing group of ultra high 0.98

00:17:52.000 performing men. Now these guys have got unlimited options so they can use and discard these women 0.91

00:17:58.540 as they need. Yes. These women feel like most guys don't meet their standards or like the guys that

00:18:05.600 they do meet are cads and treat them horribly, which antagonism between the sexes. This group of men

00:18:12.840 at the bottom feel largely invisible and they retreat away from this. Anyway. No, not anyway. That's a

00:18:19.480 really succinct and smart description of like the central problem. It's a fundamental issue based on

00:18:27.880 how women and men tend to want to mate. Now this being said, guys also have their preferences.

00:18:34.200 They tend to optimize for youth and cues of fertility, like hourglass body shape. This isn't

00:18:40.060 just to say that women have got mating preferences. So do men. But when women say sort of where are all 0.82

00:18:45.060 of the good men at? I think this is one of the fundamental issues that's kind of hiding in plain

00:18:50.300 view, which is typically women want to date up and across, but if they have grown up through in their

00:18:57.220 own competence hierarchy, there is an ever decreasing group of guys that they're going to find attractive.

00:19:02.400 Exactly right. So I started talking about this maybe about four years ago. And then recently,

00:19:08.000 some data came out that said the bottom 40% of men in terms of earning and the top 20% of women in

00:19:17.520 terms of earning have females as the primary breadwinner within the household. So from zero to 40 0.90

00:19:24.080 men, they earn less than their female partner. And in the women's camp, the top 20% of female 0.73

00:19:30.320 earners also earn more than their male partner. So this hypergamy, which is what it would have been,

00:19:36.040 has been replaced by hypandrousness, hyperandrousness, which is women as the primary 1.00

00:19:42.440 breadwinner. In these relationships, men are twice as likely to use erectile dysfunction medication.

00:19:47.100 If a guy loses his job, the likelihood of divorce doubles. Whereas if a woman loses a job, 0.78

00:19:52.360 there's no change in terms of divorce. All of these things, do we lay this at the feet of,

00:19:59.200 well, men need to be able to deal with a woman who's high performing and so on and so forth. 1.00

00:20:03.900 It's like, typically guys are the protagonists and women are the gatekeepers when it comes to 1.00

00:20:09.800 making a relationship start. Like guys are the ones that are forthcoming.

00:20:13.740 So women tend to be the selectors. And if that's the case, and women are struggling to find guys 1.00

00:20:19.220 that they're attracted to, I think this has a big role to play.

00:20:24.260 So nicely put. This experiment began about 60 years ago. And it was based on the idea,

00:20:33.680 really the article of faith that men and women were exactly the same and the gender differences

00:20:38.380 were social constructs. None of this was genetic or inborn. It had nothing to do with nature.

00:20:42.560 It was just like society created these roles for men and women arbitrarily

00:20:45.660 and they needed to be ignored. And that turned out not to be true. Like these differences persist.

00:20:54.180 If anything, they're more obvious now than they were 60 years ago.

00:20:57.680 And so maybe a system based on nature, acknowledging the natural differences without,

00:21:04.760 you know, you don't need to be rigid about it. There are anomalies, of course.

00:21:07.580 Not everyone, you know, follows the same path, but in general over a population,

00:21:11.140 like men and women are completely different. Men prefer certain things. They thrive under

00:21:15.460 certain circumstances. And the same is true for women. Why wouldn't you design 0.99

00:21:18.360 a system consistent with nature? What would that look like to you?

00:21:23.120 It would look like what we had before Betty Friedan wrote The Feminine Mystique,

00:21:26.940 before lifestyle feminism dominated every institution in the West, before we started lying to ourselves 0.82

00:21:34.600 about how we were totally disconnected from nature. It would acknowledge that every person is created

00:21:41.600 by God, in my view, but with a distinct set of talents and deficits, which is to say for a specific

00:21:49.540 purpose. Certain people are good at certain things. I know it's true for me. I know it's true for you.

00:21:53.240 And we should allow people to follow life paths consistent with the way that they were born.

00:22:01.100 Right? I mean, that's it. And the overwhelming majority of men want to be the breadwinner in

00:22:07.120 the home. And the overwhelming majority of women want that too. 1.00

00:22:11.260 Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting one, right? Because it's very hard to try and put forward

00:22:15.500 something that doesn't sound like putting the brakes on women. And I don't think that that's what

00:22:20.440 either of us. Are women happier than they were? We actually, we know that. We know the answer 1.00

00:22:25.640 because there's been a longitudinal study underway since the early seventies that asks

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00:26:29.060 first order. Highly recommended. That's probably right. In a lot of ways, the women's movement was 1.00

00:26:35.280 good for men because it allowed, you know, justified promiscuity, which is like a high male priority just

00:26:40.740 in general because it's nature. You want to impregnate as many females as you can. But it 0.98

00:26:45.920 didn't make women happier. And it's very obvious just as someone who occasionally goes to restaurants

00:26:50.400 and airports and 100% of the people who scream at me are, you know, college educated women. It's like,

00:26:55.220 why are they so angry? Well, they're so angry because they believe the lie, which is that nature

00:26:59.840 doesn't matter. So I don't know that this is liberate. Does anyone really think that women are 0.99

00:27:03.180 liberated or are they enslaved to their employers? That's what it looks like to me.

00:27:08.680 Certainly tethered in some ways. Yeah. I think

00:27:11.200 some of the worst parts of modern feminism taught women that true liberation was having sex like 1.00

00:27:18.880 their brother and working like their father. Exactly. 0.94

00:27:22.020 That being said, I don't want to put the brakes on the opportunity for some woman who really wants 0.99

00:27:25.880 to go to college or university and learn and then earn off the back of that. I don't think that that's

00:27:30.880 a good idea. Like it's not the solution to say, okay, women get out of the boardroom and back into 1.00

00:27:36.040 the kitchen as if that's what needs to happen. But when you just accept the fact that

00:27:41.280 if you don't feel secure and safe to be able to look after yourself and to be able to create a

00:27:49.060 family, then you supplement building family for building career. And that means that, well,

00:27:55.360 you've just supplanted being a family builder for being a worker drone.

00:28:02.400 Well, that's exactly right. And I think we're a long way from forcing women back into the kitchen. 1.00

00:28:08.280 American women don't know how to cook. So that would be a pretty abrupt change anyway. But I think 1.00

00:28:14.000 it would be enough to kind of level the playing field and stop telling girls the greatest lie of 0.56

00:28:21.420 all, which is that you have a moral duty to work at a bank and you'll be happier when you do. That's a

00:28:25.720 lie. And sort of take an agnostic, our schools should take an agnostic position on this stuff

00:28:30.840 and not like encourage girls to do something for which they are not suited and that will not bring

00:28:35.900 them happiness. It won't.

00:28:37.520 Look, I think that, I think that certainly in the past, it seems like, uh, women and girls who wanted

00:28:44.700 to go into a, uh, a career, learn, uh, and continue to do the professional development thing did not feel

00:28:51.180 like they were able to do that. That being said, there is a difference between enabling women to 1.00

00:28:57.620 be able to go and chase a career in their education and derogating the role of motherhood, right? 0.95

00:29:03.040 There is a big difference between that right there. Um, so Andrew Schultz came on my show and him and

00:29:07.540 his wife had a difficult process getting pregnant and they finally did after going through IVF and,

00:29:12.540 and he was so happy. And I didn't realize, but his wife used to work at Google and she had this,

00:29:17.380 uh, high powered job and, and they still live in a similar area to where she used to previously.

00:29:23.020 And she would bump into her old colleagues at the supermarket with Andrew and they've got their,

00:29:27.980 their new baby and, uh, colleagues would tell us, so what are you doing now? And this response that

00:29:34.480 she gave that Andrew had to watch said, killed him. She says, oh, I'm just a mom. Andrew said it was

00:29:41.500 the just, oh, I really got to him. I've lived this. Yes. No, I, I know. And this, I mean,

00:29:47.580 let's just stop lying. The social pressure comes primarily from other women. You know, 1.00

00:29:52.700 the, the real cruelty toward women in any culture comes from women. They're really hard on each other 1.00

00:29:57.460 in a way that's hard for me to deal with as a man who loves women. They're really hard on each

00:30:02.380 other. They're terrible bosses of other women in general. They tend to be much harder on women than 1.00

00:30:09.080 they are. I meant whatever. So, but all of that pressure, there's no man. I've never met a man

00:30:14.360 who's like, you know, I'm, I'm annoyed that my wife wants to raise our children or stay home or

00:30:19.900 doesn't feel like, you know, schlepping them to the bank every day. No man feels that way. It's

00:30:24.620 other women who are like, what are you doing? What do you do with your day? You know, and put this 1.00

00:30:29.040 not so subtle social pressure on women to pretend to be men. What is that? Well, look, I'm very glad that 0.99

00:30:36.700 I'm not having to navigate the complex social structure that women do. Intrasexual competition 1.00

00:30:42.180 for women is like, they are samurai when it comes to the social hierarchy. Between each other. Yes, 1.00

00:30:50.340 correct. Intrasexual. What is that? Well, look, um, men are able to compete for dominance in a much

00:30:55.980 more obvious way. Yeah. Like I can fight you. The problem, the, the, the issue that women had 1.00

00:31:00.520 ancestrally is that they are, uh, more valuable, uh, reproductively and they're much easier to 0.99

00:31:06.580 kill. Like they're not as robust. Their physiology is not as robust. So the way that women compete 1.00

00:31:10.360 with women is primarily, uh, socially it's through venting, fascinating stuff on venting, gossip. 0.71

00:31:16.920 It's, it's, what does that mean? Venting? Venting. So, um, me and you are, uh, hunter gatherers and

00:31:23.760 we have another friend. Uh, I'm Christine. Uh, you can be Tara and our other friend,

00:31:30.520 uh, Julia has been maybe, uh, starting to flirt with some of the guys around camp.

00:31:35.420 And I can say to you, Tara, I'm just so worried about Julia. Like she's like hanging out with all

00:31:41.980 of these guys and she's like, you know, she seems to, I'm just so worried that she's going to get

00:31:45.480 hurt. Like she seems to be sleeping around and it's, yeah, I just, I'm so concerned for her.

00:31:50.500 Me as Christine, I seem benevolent. What I've done is basically just open up the floodgates about how this

00:31:56.440 other woman is behaving. This is a very, uh, subtle, uh, form of, uh, gossip that is done couched 1.00

00:32:08.860 underneath the, uh, the cover of care. Now this is a very unique challenge that women have to face. 0.97

00:32:17.980 And to every single woman, they know how tough it is to navigate the intricacies of female 1.00

00:32:23.640 friendship. It's so, I'm so glad that I do not have to get through that. All of that being said.

00:32:29.660 Can I just ask that what, um, that's so familiar to anyone who's lived around women, to a man who's

00:32:35.000 lived around women. And I've thought a thousand times in my life, you know, all the women are 0.98

00:32:38.420 always so nice to me. You know, they're just nice to men. I think in general, they're just,

00:32:42.320 that's the default. Women are nice to men, but they are so hard on each other. So cruel sometimes 1.00

00:32:48.260 to each other. What's the purpose of that exactly? I don't know about the cruelty,

00:32:53.300 but I certainly know the way that women, that women compete is not as overt as, as the way that 1.00

00:32:59.820 men do. Um, you know, in order for women to be able to, uh, rise up, throw their own hierarchy, 1.00

00:33:06.520 it's a lot more around who are my friends with, how am I perceived as opposed to with guys. It's like,

00:33:12.040 oh, you're the strong one. You can carry the bull back. You're the fast one. You can track down

00:33:16.380 the particular animal. You're the one that's good with the spear. We can, guys tend to sort

00:33:20.180 of settle out into hierarchies a little bit more easily than, than women do. Uh, and it doesn't 1.00

00:33:24.620 seem to be quite the same way for women. So you see a lot of, um, uh, downplaying of accomplishments 1.00

00:33:31.600 among women, which is one of the reasons that I think they've struggled in the past in the 1.00

00:33:35.460 workplace. Girls come out of an exam and they'll say, oh, you, you have done so well in that. 1.00

00:33:40.620 You're so smart. Oh, I'm not like, I know I could not be. Whereas dudes will have come out and

00:33:44.040 they'll say like, uh, dude, I bet you fucking suck at that thing. As opposed to this sort 0.99

00:33:49.840 of, uh, very subtle couched, um, uh, competition that happens between women. It's just, it's

00:33:55.440 much more subtle the way the women compete. 1.00

00:33:58.020 They're very, so if you go to a party with a woman, you show up at a party with a woman, 1.00

00:34:02.820 she only notices the other women in the room. Women are constantly, I've always noticed that 1.00

00:34:09.680 they're constantly assessing each other. Did you see what she was wearing? No. You know

00:34:13.900 what I mean? But women always notice each other. They're, they look at each other. They assess 1.00

00:34:19.620 immediately. There's always an edge to it. Like, what is that? Why, why is there a constant

00:34:24.260 state of competition? Uh, I'm going to guess that the way that women would have been wired 1.00

00:34:32.180 in the past before they were able to exist independently is that they would have needed

00:34:36.400 to compete for the mate that was able to provide them with resources and security. And in order

00:34:41.640 to be able to do that, it's very important to be perceived well by the other women in 0.96

00:34:45.540 the tribe. Uh, a woman who's on her own, a woman or a man who's on their own are really 0.99

00:34:49.840 going to struggle. But particularly with regards to finding a mate, I think you need that collegial 0.99

00:34:55.880 group. Women do alloparenting as well. It's kind of rare in the animal world where they 1.00

00:35:00.160 have non-kin that help to look after their children. So they have coalitions that help to 1.00

00:35:05.460 raise kids, which means you need to have friends. You need to work out where am I in the hierarchy.

00:35:09.640 That's right. And I've got a track in that sort of a way. Alloparenting? Alloparenting.

00:35:13.800 It's referred to as, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the reason that supposedly women go through 1.00

00:35:17.260 menopause. So the reason that, um, women still exist after reproductive age is this thing called 0.99

00:35:22.260 the grandmother hypothesis. Grandmother hypothesis says that, uh, it is important that children,

00:35:30.020 human children are so useless and blobby and highly resource dependent that you need to have 1.00

00:35:37.380 additional care from women who are good at looking after children without those women 1.00

00:35:43.620 contributing more children to be looked after. So the grandmother hypothesis, you age out of being

00:35:49.560 able to contribute more children to the group, but you are still able to contribute to raising the

00:35:54.440 children that are in the group. And, uh, this is why the move away from pan-generational housing

00:35:59.940 and, you know, you at 18 go to university or move away from home is really novel because for pretty

00:36:08.520 much all of human history, you would have had people living in, in the same sorts of groups.

00:36:14.380 Yeah. And it just makes everyone, just atomizes the entire population, makes them easier to control,

00:36:19.340 you know?

00:36:19.840 Well, I think one of the problems that you have when talking about the problems of boys and men

00:36:24.020 is this sort of perspective that empathy is zero sum, that by giving empathy to men,

00:36:30.780 you are taking it away from some other group, which is more deserving. And it's a shame because

00:36:39.740 it suggests that we can't do two things at once, that any, uh, attempt to raise men up

00:36:46.360 is implicitly also bringing women down. And I don't think that this is what me or you are.

00:36:50.180 Do you really think that?

00:36:51.220 I think that that's how it's perceived at least like this sense that after all,

00:36:55.080 haven't men had it good for long enough? Like maybe they should just sort of suck it up and,

00:36:58.960 and, and deal with it.

00:36:59.820 So what do you hear in that statement that you just made? What, what's the undertone there?

00:37:04.080 What's the motive? Hey, that's an angry statement. You're angry at someone when you say that.

00:37:10.420 You're not trying to elevate anybody. You're trying to destroy someone else.

00:37:15.400 I mean, you just said it. And that statement is very familiar to anyone who's lived in the West

00:37:18.740 for the past 40 years. Well, I can't, white man, white man. And it's like, you're saying

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00:38:27.200 it up at your local convenience or grocery store. You will love it. So you probably got Verizon,

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00:38:53.320 You think your money is going toward getting better cell service, 5G service, but it's not.

00:38:58.200 So the wireless company we use, PureTalk, is very different. They use exact same cell network as the

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00:39:32.720 But how about a crosstown delivery? McCain's Sure Crisp Fries are designed to go from fryer to

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00:39:55.340 your business at surecrisp.com slash delivery. And the results are exactly what you would expect

00:40:02.740 if an entire society turns against a group, decides that they're despised and for good reason,

00:40:08.580 and then, you know, lays out this program for decades, limiting their opportunities,

00:40:15.140 demoralizing them, barking at them, forcing them to deny their inherent nature. Like they end up

00:40:22.200 suicidal. Like it's not that complicated, is it? And I don't think it has anything with empathy. It's

00:40:27.180 hate. It's hate posing as empathy. Yeah. I think if you've been on the side of the beneficiary for a

00:40:33.800 long time, typically, I mean, apart from the fact that you died more in war and of

00:40:37.960 Yeah, the beneficiary says who? Yeah. But if you've appeared to wake up early every morning and then

00:40:42.880 die young? Yeah. Okay. Look, I think a common question is, why don't men just do better? Right?

00:40:49.260 Sort of chop, chop. Can't you fix your health and your education and your employment by pulling

00:40:52.640 yourself up by your bootstraps? Like stop being so useless. The problem is no other group is told 1.00

00:40:59.200 when they suffer with poor performance or accolades in the real world that they should just pull

00:41:03.480 themselves up by their bootstraps. Like we spend billions in taxpayer funded money to start up

00:41:09.380 foundations and charities and committees and departments and campaigns to work out what's

00:41:16.040 going on. Basically, if any group has a problem, typically we say, what can we do to fix the world

00:41:22.640 to help you along? But if men have a problem, we say, what is it that men are doing where they don't

00:41:26.760 fix themselves? And in some ways, this is sort of inspiring and agentic because it says you can

00:41:33.260 sort this out. But when it's not being delivered with the structural support that's needed to try

00:41:41.080 and counterbalance a lot of the changes, education, employment, socioeconomic status, et cetera,

00:41:46.000 displacement, what it results in is struggling guys being not given a leg up and then being sort

00:41:52.080 of having the finger pointed at them. So it's a blatant double standard.

00:41:54.900 Well, not just not giving a leg up. I mean, when you systematically deny people education and

00:41:59.260 job opportunities on the basis of their sex and race, you're trying to kill them. Like what else 0.99

00:42:05.020 would that be? Trying to keep people from getting into school and get jobs because the way they were

00:42:08.780 born? I mean, how is that different from these systems that we claim we hate? It's not. It's the

00:42:14.620 same system. And I just, so I don't think it's not giving them a leg up. I don't, I don't know that

00:42:20.920 anyone needs a leg up necessarily. It's just like, how about a fair playing field where you stop like

00:42:27.300 hurting people for things they can't control? Well, I think men, maybe the UK is different.

00:42:32.780 I'm just saying the United States for 40 years, we've had a system in law that says if you're a 0.61

00:42:38.780 white man, you get fewer opportunities, period. And it existed. No one's done anything about it, 0.64

00:42:43.100 by the way, despite lots of, we're going to fix it. No one's even tried to dismantle it.

00:42:46.780 So like, what is that? Well, I think a lot of men feel like the

00:42:51.460 difficulties are dismissed out of hand as whining from a patriarchy that they no longer feel a part

00:42:59.320 of. It feels like men are in the modern world being made to pay for the supposed advantages of

00:43:05.960 their father and their grandfathers. Right. And it causes guys to check out. I mean,

00:43:11.360 the term toxic masculinity, right? Think about that. Think about saying there is something about you

00:43:16.780 which is so inherently broken. It's like original sin, right? There is this part of you

00:43:21.820 deep down that needs to be expunged in some sort of a way or exorcised. There is a bit of you that's

00:43:29.220 broken. If you want to prove to guys that they're not welcome as a part of this conversation in a

00:43:36.680 communal, collaborative, compassionate way, I think that's one of the best ways to get them to switch 0.98

00:43:44.020 off. I mean, I collected this list of different headlines about different things that were toxic

00:43:50.460 masculinity. It was like physical fitness, fast food, Brexit was toxic masculinity, climate change 0.90

00:43:57.060 was toxic masculinity, the climate crisis, the election of Donald Trump, eating meat, driving cars,

00:44:03.120 wearing Axe body spray, saying hello or have a nice day. All fantastic examples of toxic masculinity. 0.72

00:44:11.040 Basically, toxic masculinity became this catch-all term to be used to describe the behavior of any guy

00:44:17.640 that you find unpleasant. And it just causes men to check out. It's like, okay, I'm not welcoming.

00:44:22.200 So why is it, it's interesting you say that though, because I've been waiting for, I mean, decades for

00:44:28.760 the actual oppressed groups in, say, the United States to say, nah, we're not doing this anymore.

00:44:34.380 You know, fix your own power grid or whatever, build your own side. They're not capable, of course.

00:44:39.740 So I've really like anywhere from like a sit down strike to an actual revolution.

00:44:45.760 And, and I've been, of course, praying for that because I think it's really important.

00:44:50.540 I mean, no, I'm serious. This is too much. This is, this is totally genocidal. And, but instead,

00:44:57.760 they haven't done anything like that. They're just like, I'll just take more SSRIs, watch more porn,

00:45:03.080 smoke more weed, pretend I'm liberated. And just like, as you said, just drop out.

00:45:07.280 Yeah. Okay. So there is an interesting question. Given that men are displaced, dissatisfied and

00:45:16.960 unmated, why is there not the concurrent type of revolutionary behavior that we might expect?

00:45:23.420 Yeah, you would think, I mean, I'm just being, I'm being sincere.

00:45:25.800 I understand.

00:45:26.500 I shouldn't have said I'm praying for that, though I am. And not for violence, of course,

00:45:31.100 but for like, we're not, how about no? Okay. Cause I think of that as like a male,

00:45:35.660 that's like one of the things that men contribute. How about no? Like that's the dad's job. How about

00:45:39.760 no? Yeah. Disagreeability is one of those. Yeah, it is. It is. And it has, you know,

00:45:43.780 it's unpleasant, but it actually has an essential place in any functioning society. So, but we've not

00:45:49.140 even brushed up against that. Why? Strap in for this one. Okay.

00:45:53.140 Tolgo hypothesis was one of my favorites. This is one of my others. And this is the male sedation 0.89

00:45:57.880 hypothesis. So throughout history, there is an idea called young male syndrome. If you have a high

00:46:03.020 number of young, unpartnered men, they tend to be antisocial. They push over cars and set granny on 0.84

00:46:11.480 fire and cause revolutions and uprisings and stuff like that. If there has ever been a society

00:46:16.240 throughout history that has lots of unpartnered young men, they tend to cause problems. When men 0.99

00:46:21.340 get into a relationship, their testosterone drops. Exactly. When they have kids, their testosterone

00:46:25.300 drops again. So in this regard, women very much do domesticate men. Yes, exactly. 0.99

00:46:30.740 They make them more pro-social. They reduce their risk-taking behavior. Exactly.

00:46:34.660 This is good. If you've got a baby at home, you need to not think, oh, I'll just jump off

00:46:37.920 that cliff for fun. Like, no, there's a kid at home. Chill out. Exactly.

00:46:41.040 So historically, there has been a tendency for these kinds of societies with high numbers of

00:46:49.920 unpartnered young men to cause problems. Given that we have got high rates of sexlessness,

00:46:55.980 displacement among young men in the modern world, why is it that we haven't seen the concurrent

00:47:01.040 kinetic outcomes of this? And it's my belief that men are being sedated out of their status-seeking

00:47:08.120 and reproductive-seeking behavior through video games, screen, and porn. So this is not enough

00:47:14.340 of a dose to make men happy. But it is enough of a dose to stop them from going nuclear, banding

00:47:22.160 together, causing some sort of an uprising. Would you call this a hypothesis rather than

00:47:28.020 just an obvious fact?

00:47:29.620 Look, I mean, I probably should call it a notion. I think for a hypothesis, you actually need

00:47:33.140 to properly do a study for it.

00:47:34.440 I'm just going to state it as irrefutable reality.

00:47:37.980 Male sedation truth. Yeah, we can call it that. But I think that video games, what is

00:47:43.520 it that it gives men? It gives them a sense of progress, of camaraderie, of goal-seeking

00:47:48.780 behavior. And for winding down half an hour, a couple of nights a week, perhaps that's

00:47:55.200 a cool thing to do. But when it completely consumes your life, because you don't feel

00:47:59.000 like you have agency or progress, or you can make changes in the real world, so you supplant

00:48:03.820 your real world pursuits for video game pursuits, we all realize that there is a dose-dependent

00:48:09.660 curve that beyond which you are spending too much time in the virtual world. The same thing

00:48:13.720 goes for screens.

00:48:14.420 This is the sense of camaraderie and group-seeking behavior that typically you would have gotten 0.99

00:48:19.140 by going out and doing something, and shit would have occurred due to that. Again, says 0.99

00:48:23.000 the two people that make their living on the internet. But I understand. Influencers and

00:48:27.600 commentators and stuff aside, most people that are spending their time on screens are not

00:48:31.380 doing it to try and create something. They're more consuming than they are creating. And then

00:48:35.660 when we look at porn, there is this titrated dose of just about enough sexual gratification

00:48:41.340 for men to not go out and do something unspeakable in order to be able to satisfy it. 0.99

00:48:46.020 Now, it's not great that we have this balance between useless and dangerous men. And perhaps

00:48:55.900 right now, given the current world that we're in, it's 51-49 preferable to not have dangerous

00:49:02.740 men. But the only reason that I can see for that is that we're in a time of peace. If we

00:49:07.720 were in a time of war and you needed to galvanize young men to actually be useful, you have huge

00:49:13.260 swaths of guys that are just not really prepared to do it. So yeah, I think a great question would be,

00:49:20.460 where are all of the incel killings at? This is not a request, right? This is not me putting a

00:49:25.200 request in with the DJ. But you would expect more uprisings and revolutionary behavior in the real

00:49:36.700 world if you were to just sort of state the facts of how young guys are doing and getting into a

00:49:43.980 relationship, drops testosterone, having kids, drops testosterone, et cetera, et cetera. 50% of men

00:49:48.320 aged 18 to 30 haven't approached a woman in the last year. So like lots of them are not engaging with

00:49:53.100 women in that sort of way, even at the first hurdle. Where is all of this kinetic interaction 1.00

00:50:00.960 at? Well, I think the reason that this isn't happening is because they're being sedated out

00:50:06.900 of that kind of being. There's any question. When I was a child, the most sophisticated analysts

00:50:12.900 of Islamic terror, which really kind of began, well, at least in my view, in 1975 with the civil war

00:50:21.200 in Lebanon, there's like a lot of, there was Islamic terror. And the question was why? And one of the

00:50:26.160 most compelling explanations that I ever heard was polygamy because these are societies, Lebanon is 0.78

00:50:32.020 not a lot of polygamy in Lebanon, but Saudi, a lot of polygamy. These societies leave a large 1.00

00:50:39.400 percentage of young men unmarried with no hope of marriage because the rich guys grab all the women.

00:50:44.540 So you have sexually frustrated, lonely, purposeless drones with surging testosterone and they take

00:50:51.320 it out in acts of violence that we call terrorism. So that, I thought that was like, seemed right to 1.00

00:50:55.980 me. China, very worried about what's with all these excess men, great belt and road to like get them 0.98

00:51:01.180 out of the country. That hasn't happened in the West. We haven't had revolutionary behavior because of

00:51:09.240 the reasons that you described in, I think was a really smart analysis. And tobacco is a huge part

00:51:15.100 of this too. Nicotine raises testosterone levels. They've been fanatically opposed to not just tobacco,

00:51:21.620 which is delicious, but to nicotine, which no health effects. Why would you be against nicotine?

00:51:26.820 Because it raises testosterone levels. My question to you is to what extent has that

00:51:32.480 pacification campaign been conscious, been intentional? That's a good question. I tend to

00:51:40.120 not go beyond the impact of what's happening and try to, I haven't investigated how much of this has

00:51:47.760 been consciously constructed. That's not my area of expertise. And it may be irrelevant by the way,

00:51:53.620 whether it was on purpose or not, it's happening. Yeah. Look, can I ask you a different question?

00:51:58.800 Yeah, of course. If, and I'm sorry I even asked that because like, who knows, it's impossible to

00:52:02.700 know. We can only guess, probably not a good idea. Instead, let me ask if the majority of men under

00:52:10.640 30 in the United States committed to getting sober, eschewing porn, no more video games, physical fitness,

00:52:20.940 no more carbs. Yeah. No, I'm serious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is probably how you live.

00:52:26.120 Hmm. What would the country look like after a year? Well, yeah, that would be an interesting one.

00:52:32.600 Well, politically. Ah, fuck. I mean, there would be, I think that there would be a lot of changes. 1.00

00:52:38.500 You think? I just, I'm not, it would be really interesting to run that experiment. It would be

00:52:44.920 really, really interesting. And there would be some negative externalities from that. Like if you knock

00:52:49.820 porn on the head fully, you, you get some really, and this is why I meant this is this point about 0.98

00:52:55.260 useless versus dangerous men, right? It's a really interesting balance between the two. Do you want 0.98

00:53:01.160 useless or do you want dangerous men? Um, it would look different. It would look incredibly different. 0.99

00:53:06.380 Uh, and we have a, we're in a sort of luxurious position at the moment where we don't really need

00:53:11.880 the usefulness of men all that much, not on a ground floor level. And with the advent of AI and

00:53:18.900 robotics, the potential for them to be, uh, even more displaced, I think is going to increase.

00:53:23.780 There's this interesting story around, uh, um, sort of male sedation, but on the other side,

00:53:28.520 so fatherlessness. So there was this really cool example used at Kruger National Park in South Africa.

00:53:35.620 So there's a growing elephant population. It's too big and they need to get them out and transport

00:53:41.860 them. There's a plan that gets devised to take elephants from one park to another.

00:53:47.540 What they realized was in order to move them, they had to move them by helicopter.

00:53:51.220 So they had to strap these elephants. Actually?

00:53:53.360 Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Had to strap them into harnesses and then move them by helicopter to take

00:53:58.160 them from one national park to another. But the harnesses weren't able to take the huge bulls.

00:54:03.080 They could take the mums and they could take the juveniles, but they couldn't take the bulls.

00:54:07.620 So, okay, well, no worries. We'll leave the bulls there and we'll take the mums and we'll take the

00:54:11.120 juveniles and we'll move them to this new park. So they moved them over to the new park. And then

00:54:15.200 about a few weeks after this move is done, they find dead white rhinos around the park.

00:54:23.900 And first off, they thought it was poachers. They assumed that it was poachers that had killed them,

00:54:27.340 but there was no gunshot wounds. There was like puncture wounds and trample wounds on these rhinos.

00:54:32.360 And then they decided, well, we'll set up CCTV to work out what's going on.

00:54:37.440 It turned out that the juvenile elephants were just banding together and going around and killing

00:54:43.680 other animals. They attacked tourists in the jeeps. And they also were causing all sorts of havoc and

00:54:53.300 fighting each other as well. What had happened, it's this thing called musthing, M-U-S-T-H. 0.89

00:54:59.320 They were in musts. And this is, um, they're looking to mate and there weren't any women around

00:55:05.740 that they could mate with. Now this is typically tamped down by the bull males.

00:55:12.120 Yeah. Dad's home.

00:55:13.420 Dad's home.

00:55:14.000 So they worked bigger harnesses, brought the bull elephants over. Immediately all of the

00:55:21.040 antisocial behavior stopped. Right? So fatherlessness. Like I had this, I told you.

00:55:26.440 Anyone who runs a family is quite familiar with this phenomenon.

00:55:29.080 I told you before, I had this conversation with, uh, Bernie Sanders and I brought up,

00:55:34.120 he's big into inequality. So I grew up as working class as is possible. I think that

00:55:39.200 talking about inequality and talking about class problems is a really important issue.

00:55:43.800 I couldn't agree more.

00:55:45.600 Fatherlessness is the real inequality.

00:55:47.280 Of course.

00:55:48.640 Boys who grow up apart from their biological father are two times more likely to end up in

00:55:52.820 jail or prison by age 30. Fatherlessness is a better predictor of growing up in incarceration

00:56:00.020 than being poor or their race. Young men are more likely to end up in jail or prison than they are

00:56:09.260 to complete college if they grow up in any non-intact home. Uh, boys in fatherless homes are twice as

00:56:18.380 likely to grow up with depression. Girls in fatherless homes are 10 times as likely to grow up

00:56:23.400 with depression. So a big question there is, is this generation really depressed or did they just

00:56:26.840 grow up without dad? But the big point is there's been a massive increase in fatherlessness over the

00:56:32.260 last 50 years and fatherlessness impacts boys more than it does girls. Impacts girls in some ways

00:56:37.640 worse than boys, but overall girls are referred to as dandelions and boys are referred to as daisies.

00:56:42.480 We would think that boys are psychologically more robust, but without dad, boys are daisies and

00:56:47.880 girls are dandelions. They're so fragile. No, it's right. Uh, so when you think about

00:56:52.340 all of this together, like, you know, we've scratched the surface, education, employment,

00:56:59.920 empathy, fatherlessness. Let's just take like those four changing dynamics that have occurred.

00:57:06.340 Like you're really, really going to struggle as a young guy trying to find your place in the world.

00:57:11.360 Like, well, all of the previous routes to me, finding a sense of purpose, those feel like they've

00:57:16.600 been taken away from me. And maybe I did, or didn't have dad around the home, or maybe I even had

00:57:20.460 a stepdad who'd sort of tried his best or whatever, but any non-intact family home, a guy is more likely

00:57:26.340 to end up in jail or prison than to complete college. It's unbelievable. It's wild. It's wild.

00:57:33.920 And, but then if you think about why wouldn't that be true? I mean, the fundamentals are all that

00:57:39.020 matter, right? So in a nation there, do you have enough food, water, and energy? And in a family,

00:57:43.900 it's like, do you have both parents? Do they like each other? Like the, everything emanates from

00:57:47.360 the fundamentals, right? And only like over-socialized dumb people who went to college 0.99

00:57:52.220 miss that. Like me. I mean, it took me a while to figure that out, but like none of this shit 0.99

00:57:56.300 matters at all. What did you study in college? No. Do your parents like each other? I mean, 0.99

00:58:01.840 Arthur Brooks was on the show and he said, um, like, what is the best way to raise your son?

00:58:07.400 Love his mom.

00:58:08.420 Of course, 100% true. That's the truest thing.

00:58:11.060 Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't agree with Arthur on some things, but he's, he's smart. He's

00:58:15.940 legit smart. I would say. I think he's great. I think he's. Yeah. He's a nice man. I think

00:58:19.580 he's. But, uh, no, of course that's right. If you want to have happy children, have a happy

00:58:22.720 marriage. It's literally that simple. Yeah. Spend way less time with your children and way

00:58:28.960 more time with your wife and your kids will thank you. Is it, is it what you tell your kids?

00:58:33.960 I mean, to say it's the guy who is unmarried and doesn't have kids yet, but can't wait to start

00:58:37.320 family. Um, is it what you tell your children or is it what you show your children? Yeah.

00:58:43.420 Telling them has nothing to do with anything. They're like dogs. They don't hear you. Um,

00:58:48.920 at all. No, they will watch you. A hundred percent. And like dogs, they anticipate your

00:58:54.660 next movement by your last movement. Like they are totally keyed in on action rather than words,

00:58:59.820 especially girls. They don't even listen to anything you say. They just watch you and they 1.00

00:59:04.980 know if you are a decent person by what you do. And men don't get that because men are so verbal and

00:59:11.700 so committed to bullshitting their way through life. Women are unbullshitable. They know exactly 1.00

00:59:17.180 who you are. Well, again, going back to what we were talking about before the, uh, you know,

00:59:21.880 razor edge detection that women have socially, uh, is a blessing and a curse, right? They're going to be 1.00

00:59:28.600 able to see when, uh, somebody is potentially lying to them. I think women on average tend to be better

00:59:34.100 lying detectors. They pay more attention to, you know, I mean, how many times have you walked into

00:59:38.560 a party and your wife's been like, oh, such and such is not having a good time with their 1.00

00:59:42.060 partner or whatever it might be. And you're like, what do you mean? And you go, oh, did you not see

00:59:46.060 the way that she looked at him when he did the whatever? And you're like, oh, you're like, you've

00:59:49.660 got witchy energy. You're like a clairvoyant, like super. Because they're not listening to the

00:59:54.420 words. They're just watching the reality. They don't, they don't listen to anything you say.

00:59:59.260 Guys, guys don't, guys don't see that in the same sort of a way.

01:00:01.600 Because they're transfixed by language. It's why they write the books. It's why they're,

01:00:05.380 there are no female philosophers. It's all mad. It's just a different way of thinking. It's a 0.99

01:00:09.500 different kind of intelligence. And, and I, and there are certainly benefits to being obsessed

01:00:14.720 with words, but, but there are problems with it too. You miss a lot. And women just, they just don't 1.00

01:00:19.840 care what you say at all. They, they just can see what the truth is. And they're so nice

01:00:24.600 to men in general, a woman who loves you and is loyal to you will not reveal like your deepest

01:00:32.620 weakness to your face. Like they're very nice about that. They could totally destroy you.

01:00:37.280 They wash your underwear. They listen to you snore. Like they know what you're insecure about 0.90

01:00:40.880 and they keep it all. Isn't that beautiful, man?

01:00:44.080 Oh, it's incredible. No, it's the great, it's the greatest blessing. If you're just nice to them

01:00:48.420 and pay attention and provide and protect, like you get a lot in return.

01:00:53.840 Women rule, like women, women are phenomenal compatriots to men. And this like. 1.00

01:00:58.860 Compatriots, that's the right. That's exactly, it's a symbiosis. They can't,

01:01:02.180 one cannot thrive without the other, period. As in nature.

01:01:05.100 The problem is, I think, objectively, we have replaced the need for sort of family and camaraderie

01:01:15.040 with a technologically advanced world. So you can make it to the end of your life,

01:01:21.220 having not had to have the camaraderie and you survived in a manner that you may not have been

01:01:26.740 able to ancestrally. How's that working?

01:01:30.580 Well, there is a difference between objective outcomes and subjective outcomes, right? What is

01:01:35.360 the end and what was the means of getting there? Like how enjoyable was the journey? How fulfilled

01:01:39.020 do you feel? How happy were you? How present were you? What are the sort of memories that you have?

01:01:42.680 And I made it to the end of my life. And, you know, I'm here. That I don't, I think that we have

01:01:52.580 traded what matters for something that can be advertised on a CV. I think the clearest measure

01:02:00.380 of it is the suicide rate. I mean, the worst kind of murder is self-murder. What was the suicide rate

01:02:06.180 in feudal England? Probably around zero. You know, lots of things you wouldn't like about it. No antibiotics,

01:02:11.940 no freedom, you know, cold winters, but people didn't kill themselves. It just wasn't a thing.

01:02:19.900 And now they kill themselves in huge numbers. Suicide is one of the leading causes of death

01:02:24.360 in Canada right now. State-sponsored suicide under the MAIDS program. 0.56

01:02:28.160 Is that the euthanasia thing?

01:02:30.020 Yeah. The state killing its own citizens. And that's without precedent, really. I don't think

01:02:37.180 suicide's huge in like Central Africa. It's not. 0.98

01:02:39.960 Why do you think that's the case? Because for all the problems of Central Africa,

01:02:44.160 where I've been, and there are a lot of problems, like unimaginable, probably including cannibalism

01:02:48.220 and animistic religions and like all kinds of problems. But there's not like a crisis of meaning

01:02:53.620 at all. And there's not the kind of alienation you find in the West because, you know, loneliness is

01:03:01.600 not subsidized there. Like you need the clan to survive, period. And if you're without relationships,

01:03:08.840 then you're without hope. And any society that encourages people to live without relationships

01:03:13.040 is a doomed and illegitimate society, in my opinion. Right?

01:03:17.400 Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, the fact that you can survive doesn't necessarily mean that it's optimal

01:03:25.300 at all. You know? And that's evident. That's self-evident.

01:03:31.340 Sue, can you just go back? I'm sorry, you've covered so much interesting ground. Can you go back

01:03:35.320 and be a little more specific and linger a little longer on the factors that anesthetize or placate

01:03:44.360 men in the face of these enormous frustrations and hurdles? They're not rising up because you said

01:03:49.120 porn, video games?

01:03:51.000 Porn, video games, and screens, I think are the two, the three.

01:03:53.780 Can you explain the role of video games?

01:03:55.580 Yeah. Well, I think, look, video games allow you to have a simulacrum of mastery, conquer, progress,

01:04:06.500 group cohesion, coordination between you and other real people, right? A lot of video games,

01:04:14.780 I would love to know this, but I'm going to guess that solo player offline stuff like Nintendo 64,

01:04:20.520 like Sonic the Hedgehog style games from 20 years ago, will be much smaller than online

01:04:28.500 cooperative games where you're playing with other real people across the internet. And I'm going to

01:04:33.860 guess the reason for that is that the sense of camaraderie and group and progress together is one

01:04:39.060 of the most compelling parts of this because it's simulated warfare, right? Even in games that aren't

01:04:43.860 about war, even if it's, you know, you trying to build a good rollercoaster park, if you're doing it

01:04:49.680 with other people collaboratively, that's going to feel much more compelling than if you're doing it on

01:04:53.820 your own, typically. And that's a big part of what it is that guys want to do. They want to feel like

01:04:59.560 they're making progress. They want to feel like they're having an impact. They want to feel like...

01:05:02.900 How sad. Because you're not making any progress. It's all fake. I'm building anything.

01:05:08.680 Well, if you feel like you can't make an impact in the real world, I want to make an impact

01:05:15.520 somewhere. I have to, I have to, I have to do something with my time. And this is comfortable

01:05:22.800 and easy to me and compelling and in many ways, better designed than the real world. Like

01:05:28.680 the video game industry is worth more than movies, TV and music combined. Video game designers

01:05:36.060 understand human psychology better than anybody else. Oh, I get it. And I'm not judging it at all.

01:05:40.320 I said sad rather than contemptible because I mean, I think it is sad because it's the illusion of

01:05:45.260 creation. But there's, I mean, would you get more satisfaction from eight hours of video game

01:05:53.640 playing or say re-bricking your driveway? Well, unfortunately, I'm going to guess that a good

01:06:00.380 group of guys would say, oh no, give me, you know, video games because that's what I know.

01:06:06.700 Because maybe dad wasn't in the house to be able to show me. It just siphons off

01:06:10.460 the, the one thing that men have and that we all need, that the society needs, which is creative energy.

01:06:16.860 Useful. Useful. Useful.

01:06:19.340 That's exactly right. And that's such a natural thing. Such a great thing. It's essential. I mean,

01:06:25.580 it's why we have civilization in the first place because men built it because they're driven to 0.84

01:06:29.260 create stuff. And if all of that energy is siphoned off into something useless.

01:06:35.900 Well, this is also detected by women too, right? You know, I, I, I think that if you are a woman 0.98

01:06:42.380 who is, is a mom and has daughters or is, is, is looking for a partner or has a partner and wants

01:06:48.540 the partner to be increasingly good for you, you should be as passionate, if not more about this

01:06:55.300 problem than we are. Oh, of course. The very, the very fact that men are being sedated out of being

01:07:03.900 more useful is creating precisely the dearth of eligible male partners that you are probably

01:07:09.180 conscious of. It's driving women insane. I mean, I've never seen more crazy women in my life. I 1.00

01:07:13.820 think of men as crazy and women as kind of stable and steady and women in my life are, but you see 0.98

01:07:19.740 women hitting each other in public, screaming, endorsing violence. Like I don't even recognize 1.00

01:07:25.580 that behavior. And I think it's, it's so depressing to me. And I think that's all a reaction. That's all

01:07:32.700 frustration over this question. Men and women need each other. There are no men. 0.79

01:07:37.660 Men and because they're, you know, wasting their energies doing pointless things and it's driving 0.99

01:07:43.420 women like bonkers. They seem crazy. Do they, don't they seem a little crazy to you? 1.00

01:07:47.340 I have not, perhaps as you, the women in your life, I'm not around very many crazy women. 0.96

01:07:54.700 I'm not, I'm never around crazy women. All the women in my life are like completely stable 1.00

01:07:58.940 and they help keep the men calm and less crazy. And that's, I think the way it was designed

01:08:04.220 to work. And that's like the greatest blessing there is. But outside of my life,

01:08:09.420 in our political sphere, like the true extremists are women. And I'm like, wait, 0.88

01:08:13.740 what? I wasn't prepared for that at all. I certainly know that.

01:08:16.700 Female extremists? Huh? 1.00

01:08:18.380 I certainly know that they're dissatisfied. I think that, uh, that what does it mean for you to be,

01:08:27.820 uh, economically independent, but, um, romantically cut adrift at the same time?

01:08:36.780 Yes.

01:08:37.180 How does that feel? And in many ways, because female freedom was something that women wanted 1.00

01:08:43.420 for so long. And I think it is a strong point to make. Did they? Where's the evidence that they

01:08:48.460 wanted that for so long? Because I don't think there's any. I think, no, I, to push back on that,

01:08:53.580 I think that, um, there is certainly an argument to be made that the lower divorce rate and the, uh,

01:09:03.420 high level stats of look at how many marriages stayed together, were that women could not leave. 0.99

01:09:09.580 They were financial prisoners inside of these marriages. And if they had a husband that was 0.98

01:09:13.580 mistreating them, that was beating them, that was not caring for the children in the way that they

01:09:18.700 should have done, where did the women go? They don't have that job. 1.00

01:09:21.900 Now it's just a boyfriend who's doing that. Right. But I'm asking, where's the evidence?

01:09:26.620 I don't believe it for a second. I was taught that my whole life, that pre-liberation,

01:09:31.340 pre-Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem, it was just a, it was the Handmaid's Tale. It was just a

01:09:36.540 hellscape of forced pregnancies and servitude to the patriarchy and some guy and a wife beater 1.00

01:09:43.100 beating his wife was just, but there's no evidence of that at all. Like we have public opinion polling

01:09:50.300 on this. Have you ever seen any that showed like, I don't know, even a large percentage of American

01:09:56.780 women pre-1965 are like desperately unhappy? I've, I've never looked at that.

01:10:02.780 No, I have. It doesn't exist. That's all bullshit. Interesting.

01:10:06.140 All propaganda or like a small subset of unhappy women. There's always a small subset of unhappy 1.00

01:10:12.060 people, restless people who like decided to subvert the oldest institution in humanity,

01:10:17.420 which is marriage. And they did, and it made everybody crazy and much more unhappy.

01:10:22.620 I certainly don't think the derogation of family structure was great for women. Like it's not, 0.98

01:10:27.820 we can say, we can obviously say that it's not being great for men,

01:10:30.300 but you can see the beneficiaries of the last 50 years. It's like no group has fallen further,

01:10:37.020 faster than men over the last 50 years, no group. But a lot of the objective gains

01:10:44.140 have been made. But we look at how many more women are educated, look at how many more are unemployed, 1.00

01:10:48.540 you know, on the surface that looks and sounds fantastic. And in many ways it is. And that's not

01:10:53.820 something that I'm trying to roll back. I'm guessing that you're trying to roll back either.

01:10:57.100 What you're trying to say is, can we have our cake and eat it too with regards to this?

01:11:02.940 What I'm saying is these are really bad values. Like education for its own sake,

01:11:08.460 financial achievement for its own sake. These are bad goals. These are not things that we should

01:11:15.260 want. These are lies. That doesn't make you happy. There's no meaning in that. You get your

01:11:19.100 fucking degrees. Who cares? It's all stupid. What you should be trying to do is serve other people, 1.00

01:11:25.980 create new life, serve that life, those children, serve your community, live a life of meaning and

01:11:33.180 dignity and decency. Like the whole thing is indecent. Like your life should be about making

01:11:37.740 money. Says who? Who wrote these rules? They're gross. That's what I'm saying. And so I think the

01:11:43.180 measurements themselves are absurd. Great point. So there are two types of metrics,

01:11:49.740 hidden and observable metrics, right? An observable metric would be the size of the house that you

01:11:55.260 have, the car that you drive, the job title you have. What's your annual salary? A hidden metric would

01:12:01.740 be what is the texture of your mind like as you fall asleep at night? How deep is your relationship

01:12:07.980 with your friends around you? How much do you love your partner? How trusting and safe do you feel

01:12:11.980 most of the time? And the problem is in the modern world, we have traded hidden metrics for

01:12:17.020 observable metrics. So an obvious one of these would be people will happily go for a longer commute

01:12:23.900 in order to get a pay rise at work. So one of the, so funny, one of the most tightly tied metrics

01:12:30.620 that you can find is happiness and the length of your commute. The longer the commute, the more unhappy

01:12:35.420 you are. Is that true? I completely believe that. That's been studied.

01:12:39.260 Yeah. If you think about what it is that you're trading, it's not just, I have to sit in the car

01:12:44.540 longer. If you increase 45 minutes, either direction, that's an hour and a half that you're

01:12:48.540 not spending at home with your family or your friends or your partner or your kids. You're missing

01:12:54.620 an hour and a half a day of the thing that you are supposed to be doing the work in order to be

01:13:00.540 able to facilitate. That's exactly right. And the fact that we have social media where people can

01:13:05.340 compare the best of everybody else's lives with the worst of their own, it causes people to optimize

01:13:10.700 for observable metrics, not for hidden metrics, because you can't flex your inner peace on Instagram.

01:13:18.380 It's very difficult to do that. And yeah, we're playing in it. We're playing a game of currencies

01:13:24.380 now. And the currencies I think are pointing in the wrong direction.

01:13:26.940 I think you're exactly right. And I think this is all another species of scientism.

01:13:31.740 The idea that the things that matter can be measured. This was all exacerbated by World War

01:13:35.820 II where like, you know, most young men went off to war and were part of this war machine whose

01:13:42.300 whole way of operating revolves around metrics and measure everything, right? They come back 1946

01:13:47.580 and all of a sudden your whole society can't really be described outside of like measurements.

01:13:53.500 Like we, in America, especially, this is especially true here. We don't use stone for weight anymore.

01:13:59.100 Like we, we are really committed to the idea that everything important can be measured.

01:14:03.580 You still do use fluid ounces though, which is a 0.98

01:14:06.220 fucking magic print. I'm like, what is a fluid ounce? No one knows what a fluid ounce is. 0.97

01:14:09.740 I love it.

01:14:10.300 I love it.

01:14:11.340 Sorry. Sorry.

01:14:13.100 I love it. It's the best thing about America.

01:14:16.300 By the way, Celsius is just a terrible measure. It's not precise enough.

01:14:19.420 What? Because it's too big?

01:14:21.340 It's way too big because it's theoretical rather than real. This is the problem with the whole

01:14:25.420 metric system. It's like a bunch of guys sitting around saying, well, that's, you know, the current

01:14:29.100 measure standard of weights and measures is illogical. We need to, let's tie it to the

01:14:33.420 boiling and freezing points of water and let's make it a hundred because that's like clearly a

01:14:38.300 rational number. And what you get is a system that makes it impossible to measure actual temperature

01:14:43.900 changes. I know this because I sauna every day. So if you have a Celsius thermometer in your sauna,

01:14:49.020 Yes, yes, yes.

01:14:50.140 You notice that like two degrees difference in Celsius is like a completely different experience.

01:14:54.540 Yeah.

01:14:55.420 Right.

01:14:55.740 Yeah.

01:14:56.140 So it doesn't actually work.

01:14:57.340 Let me on that one. Let me give you the biggest

01:14:58.780 psyop in the world that America has done, which is convincing American citizens that the UK uses

01:15:03.100 kilometers. No, we use miles. The UK uses miles.

01:15:08.140 Really?

01:15:08.460 Does not use kilometers.

01:15:09.180 We don't drive there anyway, because it's on the wrong side.

01:15:11.580 Look, well, at least it's in the right metric system. Okay.

01:15:13.820 You know what I mean? You know that? What the fuck is a kilometer like that? No, it's miles.

01:15:19.660 Every time I'm in Europe, which is a lot, a lot, a lot, I have a day where I tell my favorite joke

01:15:26.380 and not one person ever, ever laughed. And you say, you know, where's the restaurant, you know,

01:15:29.900 from here? And it'd be like, how many, um, how many Celsius is it from here to there? And they'll

01:15:37.100 be like looking at you like that. And I'll say, I'm sorry, is that, is that a kilogram from here?

01:15:44.140 And no snickering, no laughter. They don't get it. They don't want to get it. They're very self-serious

01:15:51.420 curious about their little system of weights and measures.

01:15:53.820 You're careful. Okay. On Celsius, it's still, I'm slowly trying to move over to freedom units

01:16:00.060 and everything, everything else that I do. Um, but no, this hidden and observable metrics thing,

01:16:05.180 I think is really, really important. And, um, one of the things that I talked to the young guys

01:16:09.260 about a lot is not sacrificing the thing that you want for the thing which is supposed to get it.

01:16:15.260 So don't sacrifice your happiness in order to achieve success so that when you're sufficiently

01:16:20.700 successful, you can finally be happy. Right. Right. Don't sacrifice the thing you want

01:16:24.940 for the thing which is supposed to get it. And I think we see this everywhere that people assume

01:16:29.340 after I've achieved enough X, Y, and Z, I will now allow myself to be happy. Right. But if in the

01:16:35.820 process of trying to make yourself successful enough to become happy, you make yourself miserable,

01:16:40.300 like that is you sacrificing the thing you want happiness for the thing which is supposed to get

01:16:44.700 the thing you want, which is success. And I see this everywhere. And I think that it is, uh,

01:16:48.780 uh, it is optimizing for the wrong outcome is optimizing for the wrong thing and, uh, selling

01:16:55.900 people a lie in that regard. I, of course I vehemently agree with that. I just, I wonder,

01:17:01.580 is it, uh, I mean, I think it's possible. It's very hard to be happy without a mate. I do think that,

01:17:08.860 and I think it's hard to really understand meaning without children. Sorry. I think that.

01:17:13.340 What do you see as the fundamental role of a mate? 1.00

01:17:15.340 Right. Balance. Balance. When a man lives with a woman, no matter for how long, and I can say that 1.00

01:17:25.420 having done it for a long time, 35 years, you never really understand everything. There's a veil,

01:17:32.540 and it never really lifts. Like you get a higher percentage than you did at the beginning,

01:17:36.380 but there's always part of what she's saying that is opaque to you. Like what does that mean? And why

01:17:42.140 is she saying? You'd never really know because they're just so different. And that fact, which

01:17:48.060 is obviously an irritant, but it's an irritant in the same way, in the same way sanded an oyster is

01:17:53.100 an irritant. I mean, it creates something beautiful over time. It forces you out of yourself. That's

01:17:57.100 funny. It forces you to think really carefully about this person. Like, what is this? You're trying

01:18:01.580 to tell me something, but I'm not exactly sure what it is. And I'm trying my hardest. The process of

01:18:05.900 trying hard makes you less about yourself. And like maturity is, if you want to define maturity,

01:18:14.140 maturity is the spectrum from birth to death, right? And in birth, there is nothing in your world

01:18:20.860 disconnected from your own needs. It's all about you. I've got a dirty diaper. I'm hungry. I want

01:18:26.620 someone to pay attention to me. And maturity is the process of letting go of all of that and realizing

01:18:32.140 that other people's concerns are more important than yours. And nothing gets you there like marriage

01:18:39.900 and children because you just have, it will not be successful. You've got a bunch of girls as well, 0.83

01:18:44.060 right? Yeah. I have three daughters and a son. Yeah. All totally unexpected. Didn't expect to have any

01:18:49.100 girls. Didn't grow up with girls. Nope. No girls, no mom, no sisters. So no female dogs. So I was just like, 0.77

01:18:55.740 what? What did you learn about girls from raising you? Oh my gosh. It was like the greatest thing ever.

01:18:59.660 If you would ask me, well, the other thing you learn, I think from marriage is that it's kind

01:19:03.660 of not up to you. Like you're not sort of the captain of your own vessel. Like you do have to

01:19:10.700 sort of accept things as they come and like, okay, what can we make of this? I never would

01:19:14.860 have had a single daughter if it was up to me. I probably wouldn't have had children because they

01:19:17.980 affect your sex life. And I was like highly focused on that. But of course it was the things that

01:19:23.580 happened against my will that were the best things and the most broadening things and the most

01:19:28.700 interesting things by far. And having daughters was like at the very top of that list and

01:19:33.180 didn't have just one. I had three. And it's just been an amazing. So cool.

01:19:38.060 Oh, it was the best. And it's why I'm really hate technology and everyone who promotes it because it

01:19:44.860 gives people the illusion of control, which is like the biggest lie of all. It's the Tower of Babel lie.

01:19:50.780 And if I had had control over the sex of my children or the nature of my children, 0.98

01:19:57.340 I would have fucked it up completely because I'm not God. And so there is something, 0.97

01:20:03.660 it takes the unexpected beauty out of life. Anyway, so, but I guess the point is

01:20:09.980 as you mature, you become less about yourself. And it's absolutely impossible to live with a

01:20:18.220 member of the opposite sex and be totally about yourself. It just doesn't work. You'll get 1.00

01:20:21.820 divorced immediately. She'll hate you. Probably try and kill you actually. It just doesn't work. 1.00

01:20:27.260 So, and if you like, and sex is the glue that holds it all together. You want to sleep with her. 0.93

01:20:31.180 That's why you, that's why she's not your roommate. Right? And so that kind of like loosens you up

01:20:37.900 for the real learning in life, which is stop focusing on yourself. It's not all about you.

01:20:44.300 Shut the fuck up. And I'm from a culture that really pushed, it's not about you. 1.00

01:20:51.260 And that is the main, and of course I still am utterly narcissistic and about myself anyway.

01:20:56.700 It's like a daily struggle because that's just, that's just who we are. But I grew up in a culture

01:21:01.740 that did not accept that at all. And that was the main difference between the world that I grew up

01:21:05.580 in and the world we currently live in. It's not all the other stuff. It's, it's, you're not allowed

01:21:11.660 to talk about yourself. We don't compliment our children, not because we don't love them,

01:21:15.420 but because we don't want to encourage narcissism in our children. We send them to boarding school at a

01:21:18.620 young age. Why? Because they're gonna have to learn to deal with other people. They're gonna have to

01:21:22.060 take gang showers with like other kids. I think this is what I was talking about with regards 0.93

01:21:26.140 to my experience at university. That socialization, that rush of socialization. And maybe there's

01:21:30.620 an argument to be made that I should have learned it before 18, but I didn't. And I get the sense

01:21:34.300 that a bunch of other young people don't. But what is socialization? It's the forced realization

01:21:40.140 that it's not all about you. Yeah. Compromise. Yeah. Accommodating other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:45.020 Yeah. How funny. How funny the, uh, one day you just get sick of yourself. You get sick of having to,

01:21:55.740 it all being about you in some way. It's so boring.

01:21:59.740 Yeah. I'm an only child. So for me, it was, you know, that times, times 10, uh, because there's no

01:22:06.540 negotiating with other brothers or sisters. The first time I ever learned you had to knock on

01:22:10.060 somebody's bedroom door before you went in was when I went to university. Cause I'd never had

01:22:13.740 to knock on anybody's bedroom door before. Mom and dad went to bed after me. They got it before me.

01:22:17.660 Like I didn't have to knock it. Did they lock their door?

01:22:20.700 The front door, but the bedroom door, like I was never awake during the middle of the night.

01:22:25.020 So like, uh, yeah, it was, uh, I don't know. There was just, it was an interesting, uh,

01:22:29.980 lesson in socialization and the boarding school thing. I can see, uh, I can see in that.

01:22:34.860 I mean, they're down there. I mean, I could write a book about it, but there are, there are

01:22:38.060 of course downsides to, to every approach you have with children. But I, I do think someone

01:22:43.900 should say repeatedly every day to every human being, it's not about you. Stop talking about

01:22:50.140 yourself. You're not that interesting. There've been billions before you, billions will follow you.

01:22:54.940 We're all kind of the same, knock it off. That lack of sense of community that, um,

01:23:00.460 nobody has my back. I can't trust anybody. I'm a disembodied drone number inside this apartment

01:23:09.180 in this big megalopolis gray city thing. I understand why this environment causes people

01:23:16.860 to think and feel that way, both men and women, and perhaps even more so women, to be honest,

01:23:21.660 because this was something that they didn't have only until very recently. So the novelty of,

01:23:27.500 well, this is something that men had for a long time. They had the employment, they had the

01:23:33.020 education. The fact that the same way the playground mentality of like, I don't want that toy unless

01:23:37.980 somebody else has it type thing comes in and they go, well, I'm going to, I'm going to get this thing.

01:23:41.980 I'm going to have this thing. And well, I can't trust the people around me in the same sort of a

01:23:46.220 way. I don't have the same communities and sense of cohesion that I would have done previously either.

01:23:51.100 I need to look after myself, which means that this brand new landscape that I can exist in,

01:23:56.620 or for men, I'm going to retreat into myself or perhaps even harm myself. And, uh, the thing that

01:24:02.860 it ends. That is the truest thing, what you just said. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um,

01:24:10.140 you could ask, well, what's the point? Like, why do we need, why do we need to have

01:24:13.500 uh, useful men? Uh, if the welfare state and women socioeconomically outperforming men, 0.91

01:24:20.860 what's the usefulness? Well, you'd say about raising boys and community, uh, enmeshments and

01:24:27.180 happiness and fulfillment and camaraderie and all that sort of stuff. But I think that there's more

01:24:32.380 like ground floor impact of this too. So one of the criticisms is that, uh, almost all violence is

01:24:40.540 committed by men. Men account for about 80% of violent crime. At least. But they commit even 0.70

01:24:48.860 more heroism. So there's this award called the Carnegie Award, which is given to any person who

01:24:58.220 risks their life for a stranger. It's been given up 10,000 times. 93% of these awards have been given

01:25:04.780 to men. Well, yeah. And you'll remember the Aurora, Colorado shooting. Dark Knight Rises,

01:25:11.500 theater. Young guy walks in, 24 years old, starts firing rounds into the theater. Three men, 24, 26,

01:25:19.900 and 27, throw themselves on top of their girlfriends to protect them. And they get hit with bullets.

01:25:26.060 All three men died. All three women survived. Is that the kind of masculinity and usefulness that

01:25:36.140 we want to get rid of? Or is that the kind that we want more of? And it seems to me that the only

01:25:41.020 reason that we can entertain useless sedated men as even an acceptable proposition is that

01:25:50.460 there are no real threats in that sort of a way. Yeah. I think everyone's about to sober up real

01:25:55.980 fast here because I think that period, unfortunately, I haven't enjoyed peace and prosperity, speaking for

01:26:02.140 myself. But, um, cause I never bought into any of this insanity about gender roles being meaningless.

01:26:08.460 Gender roles are the heart of everything, the heart of nature. All animals have gender roles. Come 0.94

01:26:13.260 on, stop it. Uh, so I never even for a second thought that was real, but I have enjoyed like living in

01:26:19.180 a peaceful society where you can walk to the grocery store at night and not get worried.

01:26:23.020 But that's clearly ending like now. So as it does end as hard times return, which they are,

01:26:31.980 you know, it becomes more self-evident. The point of men, no? Yeah. Well, I don't know. I'm,

01:26:37.580 I'm not particularly pressing when it comes to that. Certainly not in this country, but, um,

01:26:42.460 I think you can just see people don't seem to be that happy. And no, but I mean, if,

01:26:48.060 if shit goes sideways, you're not going to have a lot of women saying, you know, I just need my 1.00

01:26:53.660 check from Citibank and my vibrator and I'm fine. Like that's just not going to be a thing anymore. 0.99

01:26:58.540 Right? That would be, that would be very true. Yeah. That would be very true. And I mean,

01:27:03.260 we're even going to see this as a direct effect of the fact that people aren't coupling up and

01:27:07.260 having kids with birth rates. Right? South Korea, for every hundred South Koreans, there are four

01:27:12.780 great grandchildren. Yep. 96% decrease. You want to get really red-pilled in a hundred years?

01:27:18.380 They will be only North Koreans. So at current rates of fertility. So that means the last Stalinist 0.99

01:27:28.620 system in the world works better on a fundamental level, which is to say it reproduces itself more

01:27:35.980 effectively than the most precise copy of American society ever created, which is South Korea. Occupied

01:27:43.100 by American troops for 75 years. It's, it's an American clone. I don't know if you've been there. 0.91

01:27:48.380 Great people. Awesome people. I love the South Koreans, but they're committing mass suicide. 1.00

01:27:54.780 Meanwhile, their Stalinist sibling, which is like the most repressive society ever is like,

01:28:01.420 what is that? What is that? I mean, I'm against North Korea. I love South Korea. I'm just being 0.62

01:28:06.300 clear about my preferences, but is there a better measure of success than a birth rate? I don't really

01:28:13.100 know that there is another measure of success other than a birth rate. What would it be? GDP?

01:28:18.940 Yeah. Well, if you can increase GDP, which we have, but decrease the birth rate, you have perhaps

01:28:25.100 traded the thing that you want for the thing that's supposed to get it. Yeah. Exactly. And

01:28:32.780 other people are just going to move in and take what you got, which is also happening. So it's all

01:28:37.020 kind of predictable. Well, again, I, you know, I brought this up to Bernie when I had that conversation

01:28:41.340 with him and I said, uh, how concerned are you about birth rates? And he said, yeah, I am. I'm like,

01:28:46.540 okay, that is, that is progress to hear from Bernie Sanders that he's concerned about birth rates.

01:28:51.180 I'm like, okay, like we're, we're, this is coming into contact with real reality here. Um, but yeah,

01:28:56.700 if you have an inverted demographic shape with fewer young people than you do old people, uh,

01:29:02.860 the GDP does not look very good. Like you don't have the economic engine to be able to fund the care

01:29:08.940 for an ever aging population that requires ever more healthcare because people are living longer.

01:29:13.740 But who even cares about all that stuff? I mean, I, I would rather eat gruel three meals a day and

01:29:19.660 never go to the doctor again than not have kids. I mean, none of that stuff matters.

01:29:24.140 Health care? Like what? Who cares?

01:29:26.220 My point being that if you do have fewer children than you do old people. 0.99

01:29:30.060 No, no, I get it. I get it. But that's an economic argument,

01:29:32.220 but there's a deeper argument to be made, which is if society isn't reproducing,

01:29:37.660 in what sense is it successful?

01:29:39.180 That's a great point. I mean, I'm, I'm speaking in the language of people who don't,

01:29:42.780 who needs to be convinced that children and that people have economic utility,

01:29:47.660 like that there's some materialist. Yeah. I'm just saying, I think that's a

01:29:51.340 monstrous worldview that we've all unconsciously imbibed and accepted. And I think that we should

01:29:57.340 reject it. Well, I mean, beyond the fact that to pretty much every single parent that you will

01:30:01.980 ever speak to their children and the most important thing that they've ever done in their lives,

01:30:05.020 it's made all of the accomplishments in their career and academia and status and money feel

01:30:11.740 shallow and juvenile and insignificant and flimsy in comparison, this sort of odd solipsistic, 0.86

01:30:19.340 narcissistic, horrendous idea. 0.90

01:30:21.420 My vacation. Oh, my vacation. Who cares? I've taken some, I guess, decent vacations. I never

01:30:30.460 think about it. It doesn't mean anything. All that matters is your children.

01:30:33.740 But you did mention that before you had kids, that perspective of being able to see what it

01:30:39.340 would be like to have them, you were able to observe the costs and not so easily see the benefits.

01:30:45.020 Yeah. I just had no sense. It's, you know, having kids is one of those things that it's,

01:30:47.900 it's impossible to, at least for a man, or at least for me, I'll just speak for myself.

01:30:52.220 I couldn't understand it at all. And I was weighing like the obligations of having children

01:30:58.220 versus the pure animal joy of flying in bed with my wife on Saturday morning,

01:31:02.940 reading the New York Times naked and eating French toast. Like that's like the highest level.

01:31:07.820 You know what I mean? And I was thinking, well, there's gonna be a lot less of that

01:31:11.900 if we've got pups. And I was like, I don't, I don't know if that's worth it. And then you have

01:31:16.300 kids and you're just like, wow, who was that? Who had a thought that's stupid? Even from a selfish 1.00

01:31:22.780 perspective. It's not even like altruistic. It's just like, it's so much more fun to have kids

01:31:28.140 than it is to lie in bed reading the New York Times, which is very fun, by the way,

01:31:32.300 because the New York Times doesn't exist anymore. Does it, I don't know if they still have that,

01:31:35.180 but it was a paper here years ago, whatever.

01:31:39.500 Is there a way that you think you can convince people who haven't experienced it of insights like

01:31:45.100 that? Your materialism is absurd. You're all going to die. We're all going to die. It's the only

01:31:50.540 thing that we have in common is our common impending death. And let's just start there.

01:31:55.980 Let's just start with the facts we know you're going to die. That's the only thing we know, 0.91

01:31:59.420 actually. So with that in mind, ever present in mind, what's worth doing? And what could possibly

01:32:09.420 have greater meaning and value than creating life? Nothing. So just conceptually, that's just

01:32:16.620 obvious. Second, all of this artifice, this created stuff around us is fake. It's all going

01:32:22.860 away. It's all going to rot and disappear. We'll be remembered by nobody. So like the pursuit of

01:32:29.420 material accumulation is just sisyphean. Like you're never going to get the rock to the top of

01:32:35.580 the hill. It just doesn't even matter, actually. So don't even try. Do something worthwhile. And

01:32:40.540 having kids is like the one thing that every person or most people can feasibly pull off that's

01:32:47.820 transcendent. It's profound. It literally transcends your life. It's bigger than you. And everybody

01:32:53.980 inside has this desire to leave a mark, to create something bigger than me. And that's the only thing

01:32:59.740 you can do. And all of us from Bill Gates on down, doesn't matter how rich you are, the only thing

01:33:07.260 you can do that's transcendent is have children. And so why wouldn't you want that? And second,

01:33:12.060 I would say anyone who gets in the way of that is your blood enemy. He's not like a misguided person.

01:33:17.020 He's not. Anyone who's offering free vasectomies outside of political convention is your blood enemy.

01:33:22.140 He's trying to destroy your lineage, your DNA. He is a lot scarier than the Mongol horde 1.00

01:33:28.940 sweeping across the step. At least they created life as they destroyed it. These are just destroyers.

01:33:34.380 They're anti-human. They're anti-life. And I would take it with deadly seriousness. It's like not a

01:33:40.220 not a fucking joke, man. They're trying to prevent you from having kids or grandkids, even in subtle ways. 0.98

01:33:46.140 They are your enemies. That's how I feel. I'm a very primitive person, have always been.

01:33:51.820 And that's worked for me. How would you have convinced yourself pre-kids that that was the actual

01:33:58.380 outcome? I just went on the normal path. I got like obsessed with a girl and want to possess and

01:34:06.220 sniff her just like all young men. Just totally. Luckily, I picked a really virtuous, hilarious, 0.99

01:34:13.500 smart person. I might've made the wrong choice. Thank God I made the right choice. But men are

01:34:19.900 motivated by the sex drive. That's the primary drive in young men. That's why I hate to see it

01:34:24.780 subverted into useless shit like porn. I just hate that. There's a reason you feel that way. 1.00

01:34:30.300 You know, the desire to impregnate every woman on the planet that needs to be contained and like 1.00

01:34:35.020 made useful, of course. Just impregnate one. But that desire is your life force. That's your life force.

01:34:43.100 Don't waste it alone. Like what?

01:34:46.300 Yeah. I had an interesting conversation about the advent of AI girlfriends. I know that people

01:34:51.820 are concerned about this. So, AI girlfriends. AI girlfriends. I'm going to state my bias,

01:34:57.180 then I'm going to let, I'm going to shut up for once and let you talk. But AI girlfriends seem like 1.00

01:35:02.140 if there was ever like the apocalypse, people imagine the apocalypse is a nuclear exchange.

01:35:08.380 I think of the apocalypse as AI girlfriends. Okay. I'm not going to make a bull case defending

01:35:13.740 the robo pussy. So you don't need to worry about that. It's still the linings around why it might 1.00

01:35:21.020 not be quite as bad as we fear. First one. One of the primary reasons that men like having women 0.99

01:35:30.700 is that it is implicit that the man has been chosen, right? From all of the suitors that this

01:35:36.700 woman could have chosen from, she chose me. Exactly. Prestige, status, pre-selection. 0.96

01:35:42.700 The reason that I think there is an upper bound or a ceiling on how alluring AI girlfriends are

01:35:49.260 going to be is that there is no status associated with being chosen. It's the same reason that a man 0.96

01:35:54.460 doesn't flex how many porn subscriptions or OnlyFans models he subscribes to, because any guy with the

01:36:00.140 price of a cheeseburger spare per month can do that. But there's no selection. There's no prestige

01:36:05.260 associated because anybody can get it, right? So I think that the AI girlfriends, at least in terms of

01:36:11.100 how compelling they are, there may be a ceiling that isn't fully accounted for. Compelling,

01:36:16.780 freely available, the video games of sex, all the rest of the stuff. Yep. Things to be concerned

01:36:20.700 about. But the fact that there is no limitation, there is no constraint of supply, which means there

01:36:26.540 is no selection, I think, will limit how much pleasure men can take from that. So that's at least one

01:36:35.100 slight white pill that people could take with regards to that.

01:36:44.700 I see a different, I hope you're right. I mean, of course I hope you're right.

01:36:47.260 But I think that it's actually meeting a need in an ersatz way. Okay. So if you talk to any

01:36:57.100 prostitute about what men actually want, they want sex. They want to talk a lot. They want someone to 0.99

01:37:03.660 listen to them. Men have a great need to talk to women and to be listened to and admired and

01:37:10.380 patiently heard. And the AI girlfriend, while she can't perform sexual services just yet, 1.00

01:37:18.620 can definitely sit there and listen to men talk about themselves. Yeah.

01:37:22.140 And that is something that men deeply, deeply want. Now, the problem is,

01:37:26.460 it's not actually talking to somebody. It's talking to a data storage facility in Arizona.

01:37:33.020 It's not real. Understood. Yeah. That's an interesting one. I mean, we,

01:37:37.180 that's certainly one thing that in the male sedation hypothesis hasn't been accounted for yet,

01:37:42.060 which is emotional resonance. Yeah. And perhaps this will be an addition on that side of the ledger,

01:37:48.860 as opposed to one that actually compels men to go out. But the other one, the other part that me and

01:37:54.300 a friend, William Costello thought about was the potential for guys to practice interacting with women.

01:38:02.220 So one of the problems that you have, many men have approach anxiety. It's like to the women out 1.00

01:38:07.260 there, approaching a woman is tantamount to life and death. It's mortally uncomfortable to men,

01:38:15.660 because if I'm rejected, that's the end of my lineage. It's scary. And I can't even describe

01:38:19.900 why. And I'm in fear. And I get over it. And I did it. And I talked to her like that is something

01:38:25.420 that many men have issues in terms of doing. Going up and talking to the girl is like a, you know,

01:38:29.820 it's a big hurdle for them to get over. And when they do it, they feel proud in themselves.

01:38:33.580 The problem is that you can't practice that in private. There is no such thing as a training

01:38:38.220 ground for doing that. The only place that you can actually do it is by going to go and do it in

01:38:43.260 public. You can only practice in public, right? As opposed to practicing in private.

01:38:47.340 We're in the middle of the world series at the moment. Shohei Otani hasn't only ever thrown pitches

01:38:52.700 in a game scenario. He's been able to go and practice them and then put them out into the field of

01:38:56.700 play. The same thing isn't true for men approaching women. I think that potentially you could have a

01:39:02.540 world in which a virtual reality headset is able to accurately model a scenario of you being in a bar,

01:39:09.900 talking to a woman, and it can detect intonation and pace of speech and response. And should you

01:39:14.780 touch her on the leg now or not? And the possibility, this is an artificial solution to an artificial

01:39:19.660 problem. I am aware of that. But in order to be able to fix guys who haven't spent much time around

01:39:24.380 women don't have that base that they might have grown up with understanding how to properly 1.00

01:39:30.220 interact with women, I think that there is a potential to gamify becoming better communicators 0.99

01:39:36.860 with women in a sandbox that doesn't have the potential for rejection or for an accusation that 1.00

01:39:42.060 you pushed too hard or were coercive or did something that was unspeakable or horrible or whatever it might

01:39:45.980 be. I think that that might actually allow men to feel more comfortable and go out into the real

01:39:51.340 world and be better with women as opposed to worse. It makes sense. I'm just skeptical that any machine 0.99

01:39:56.540 could approach, even a supercomputer could approach the complexity of an actual woman. 0.96

01:40:00.140 Yeah, you're not fair. And I think the no threat of rejection kind of defeats the purpose because

01:40:08.780 that's what proving your manhood is, is going on the stadium floor. Exactly. That's the whole point.

01:40:15.900 And it's a test that they're administering to you. Are you man enough to face my potential

01:40:21.660 rejection? And in fact, sometimes my rejection. Women very often offer up rejection in order to 1.00

01:40:26.780 test you. The shit test. 1.00

01:40:28.140 A hundred percent. Yeah. 1.00

01:40:30.460 And so like, can a machine do that? The stakes are too low.

01:40:33.180 Yeah, that's true. That's true.

01:40:35.260 Now, if the machine was doing it in the presence of a bunch of other machines, 0.99

01:40:39.100 there would be a whole crowd of AI ladies sitting there, like mocking your dick size as you're doing 1.00

01:40:44.060 it, then maybe that would be a realistic test. Okay. Yeah. No, I look, I'm desperately trying 1.00

01:40:49.980 to cling to some sort of fucking like little silver lining. 0.98

01:40:53.340 Remember when they told us that porn was actually a good thing because it was like a 0.91

01:40:58.780 healthy outlet and we'd have fewer sex crimes and people's sex lives would become

01:41:03.100 more normal and healthy once they had porn. I remember all this.

01:41:07.740 And I hate to admit it, but it was only the radical, like truly crazy lesbian feminists 1.00

01:41:13.420 like Andrea Dworkin who were against porn at the time. And I remember thinking, 0.97

01:41:19.020 you know, uptight bitch. She was a hundred percent right, by the way. I was wrong, but whatever. 1.00

01:41:24.140 Well, we're in an interesting world at the moment when it comes to sort of approach

01:41:27.740 anxiety stuff for guys, because post Me Too, a lot of men really took to heart the message,

01:41:35.020 do not be pushy with women. Do not be pushy with women. The problem is that when you tell men, 0.91

01:41:40.380 don't be pushy with women, the guys who really need to feel a little bit more confident around

01:41:46.060 women, take that to heart. And the guys that were blowing through boundaries already just disregarded.

01:41:51.020 You have advice, hyper responders, right? You have the people whose fears are confirmed by headlines

01:41:57.180 and worries. And they're the ones who probably could have done with, no, dude, you can go and

01:42:01.820 say hello to her. Like she'd really love to hear from you. But he's heard, do not be pushy with women. 0.86

01:42:06.700 And thought, I knew, I knew I was too much. I knew that women didn't want to hear from me.

01:42:10.860 Meanwhile, the guys who were coercive, who were blowing through boundaries already,

01:42:14.860 they disregard the warnings and the concern. So I think we've ended up, the goal of Me Too,

01:42:22.540 from a relational standpoint. And I do think it was important to call powerful men to account

01:42:27.740 for using position and coerciveness and incentive in a way that was not virtuous in order to get

01:42:34.220 sexual access. Oh, I agree. I agree completely. The goal of Me Too was to sanitize the toxic

01:42:42.380 elements of male behavior. And instead it ended up sterilizing most of them. And what did it do to

01:42:48.700 women? I mean, no woman wants to be treated in a way that's vulgar or cruel or dehumanizing. Of 0.99

01:42:56.140 course, those are just, that's just the human, you know, no one wants that. But is there any evidence

01:43:01.900 that women didn't want men to be aggressive? I noticed there's been an enormous rise in nor,

01:43:06.620 I hear about it all the time in women asking to be choked during sex. I always talk to people about

01:43:12.940 their sex lives. I'm interested in the topic. I think it reveals a lot about people. I think it's

01:43:17.740 the most human thing there is. I'm not embarrassed at all. I've never heard anything like that until

01:43:21.900 about 10 years ago. This girl wants me to choke her. I was like kind of horrified. I don't see

01:43:26.780 any connection between sex and violence. I'm just not into it. But like, what is that? And it's very

01:43:33.260 common. I'm not going to embarrass you by asking you if you are aware of that, but I know that you

01:43:37.020 are aware of that because every man is aware of that. What the fuck is that? Like, that's not healthy 0.99

01:43:41.580 at all. And that seems to me to be, I'm just guessing, I have no personal experience with it,

01:43:46.300 but that seems to me to be an expression of a longing for male aggression that's gone in an

01:43:53.500 unhealthy direction. Or did you read, you know, the famous pornographic novel for women? Do you

01:43:59.500 remember this? Fifty Shades of Grey? Did you read it? No. Well, I read it because I'm interested in

01:44:03.780 women. Okay. That's a great disclaimer so that you can justify reading Fifty Shades of Grey. Dude, 0.70

01:44:07.900 it was the least erotic thing I've ever read in my life. I read it on a flight to LA. I was embarrassed

01:44:12.520 to read it, but I was like, I'm interested in women. I want to know how they think. Not even a Twitch? 1.00

01:44:15.340 Literally, I took a celibacy pledge by the time when I entered LAX. I found it so repulsive and

01:44:23.180 weird. Okay. And it just shows that men and women are so different that things that turn them on are

01:44:26.620 different. Exactly. It was all about control and humiliation. Dude, so- 100%. And I'm hearing

01:44:33.820 all these women like, oh my gosh, I had to, I mean, whatever. Women were really in fuego about this 1.00

01:44:40.540 book. And as a man, you read it, you're like, honestly, I've been to church services that are

01:44:46.540 more erotic than this. This is actively- Okay. So I have some first-hand experience of this. I was

01:44:54.380 the cover of a bunch of dark romance novels in my 20s. Sorry? I was the cover model of some dark

01:45:01.500 romance novels in my 20s. You do not need to Google them. You were the Fabio of the UK?

01:45:05.340 Okay. Yeah. Dorian Gray. Dorian Gray, but with a British accent. Actually?

01:45:10.900 Yeah. I did. I did every- Why did my producer tell me this? Let me check the booking sheet here.

01:45:14.880 I did every red flag that your future son-in-law should not have. Male model, DJ, nightclub promoter,

01:45:22.220 all of the red flags. My point is, I was a part of this very tangentially, right? You do modeling.

01:45:29.460 Sometimes a photo gets taken and an author says, oh, that's great. That can be like the muse

01:45:32.480 idea for the front cover of this book. Would I be able to buy it? And I'm 20. I'm like,

01:45:36.020 yeah, sure. You pay a thousand bucks and get my photo. That's great. I'm on the cover of a book.

01:45:39.860 Isn't that great? A little bit darker and more raunchy than I might've anticipated. My mum,

01:45:45.560 when she found out that her son was on the cover of a book, said, oh, it'd be lovely. I'd love to

01:45:48.960 read it. And I'm like, this isn't Harry Potter. You're not reading this book. Anyway, my point being,

01:45:55.600 I've been tangential to that industry in the past. What was interesting was the timing of Fifty Shades

01:46:01.720 coming out and the sort of archetypes that you saw within the dark romance genre,

01:46:06.500 very much typically masculine man, heavy brow, big hands, lumberjack, plaid shirt, man stuff,

01:46:13.420 big chest, muscular, in a position of prestige, typically dominant, typically wealthy,

01:46:21.020 not succumbing to or just not particularly of the ilk that the modern world was telling men that

01:46:29.600 they should be more of, especially post Me Too. And this is an uncomfortable circle to square if

01:46:36.280 you want to try and marry these two worlds together, right? So what they did was they tried

01:46:41.180 to make romance novels more in keeping with the sort of archetype that modern men were perhaps

01:46:49.260 supposed to be a more agreeable, softer sort of man. And these are referred to as cinnamon roll

01:46:53.320 husbands or golden retriever husbands. And they wrote romance novels about this story arc,

01:47:00.580 right? This was the kind of archetype that was going on. Shock, horror, they did not sell,

01:47:05.540 right? Women were not buying the golden retriever husband, cinnamon roll husband story arc.

01:47:12.720 They wanted the Dorian Gray archetype.

01:47:14.300 How shocking is that? Did you read any of the books? No.

01:47:21.060 You should go back and read your own books. And I bet you would find them not only non-erotic,

01:47:28.840 but like anti-erotic. Like these are your fantasies, really?

01:47:32.120 What are the... I think every man thinks that female sexual fantasies are like 1.00

01:47:36.320 pillow fights in the sorority house. Right. 0.98

01:47:39.000 Those are male sexual fantasies. Female sexual fantasies tend to be much more about power. 1.00

01:47:44.300 than men's sexual fantasies, I have noticed. And... 0.97

01:47:47.900 Presumably an imbalance of power.

01:47:50.180 Yeah. Where they're on the, you know, on the weaker side. And, and they're, you know,

01:47:55.340 some of them are not, I mean, no one ever wants to be honest about anything, basically. Lying just

01:47:59.660 kind of dominates every public conversation, but, and I'm not attacking anybody. I've just noticed

01:48:03.340 this because I'm interested. And no, they're, they're all, I don't think we want to be dehumanized

01:48:10.340 or ignored or treated like children. I don't think that, but, but the kind of novels that sell,

01:48:17.300 sex novels that sell to women are not sexually arousing to men at all, I have found. And again,

01:48:24.180 they're all about being dominated. Like that's what it is.

01:48:28.480 One caveat to put in there is...

01:48:29.940 I'm really bothered by it. I just want to be totally clear. I don't like that. I don't,

01:48:33.800 I don't like all the weird power dynamic stuff, but whatever. They like it. And so to tell me

01:48:40.140 that the Me Too movement is about making men less aggressive sexually because women hate 0.61

01:48:47.160 male sexual aggression. You're just lying. That's just not true. Do you take a poll of women? Do 0.94

01:48:52.560 you care what they think? Do you know what they think? No, of course they have no idea what women 1.00

01:48:55.240 think. They don't care. Men's sexual aggression from men that they don't want to be sexual with is

01:48:59.600 the sort of thing that can scow you for the rest of your life. Well, needless to say, I'm totally,

01:49:05.360 obviously I'm against any kind of sex. Well, I'm against, which is violence, period. But, 0.57

01:49:11.380 and including choking during sex, sorry. I think it's, what is that? Don't lecture me about Me Too

01:49:17.820 if you're asked to getting choked during sex, sorry. I'm just not taking you seriously. But no,

01:49:21.800 I totally agree. Sexual assault, rape, we don't punish rape severely enough. Most men feel that way,

01:49:27.740 by the way. It's the female judges who let the rapists out early. It's not the male judges.

01:49:31.800 Is that true? Of course it's true. Of course it's true. It's not your average man thinks that

01:49:37.160 rapists should be, you know, boiled alive. Yeah, of course. And I've never met a man who doesn't

01:49:43.380 feel that way. Every man, every normal man feels that way. And I've never met anyone who got off on

01:49:48.680 rape fantasies. In fact, I would bet my house that the majority of Americans who find 0.69

01:49:54.480 rape fantasies appealing are not men. Sorry. Tell me I'm wrong. I'm not wrong. I'm right. 0.87

01:50:02.200 No, I've seen some really uncomfortable data that- Yeah, you have, right.

01:50:04.860 When you look at very aggressive porn, the primary consumer of that is not men.

01:50:12.660 Yeah, exactly. So I'm not attacking anybody at all.

01:50:14.980 But people are allowed to have their preferences.

01:50:16.400 I agree with you.

01:50:17.160 And in many ways, we don't get to choose what it is that arouses us.

01:50:21.680 That's the whole point I've been making for two hours. This is nature. We're not in control

01:50:25.380 of it. We have to conform to the system already in place that we did not create because we're

01:50:30.020 not God. So you just have to deal with what you got.

01:50:33.380 Politically, when that is, or publicly in terms of PR or press or whatever, when that becomes

01:50:37.740 inconvenient because there is a movement in one direction that goes against what is preferred,

01:50:42.780 natural, predisposed in another. So great example of this, talking about the aftershock

01:50:48.440 of Me Too, which was still in the blast radius of in many ways. Half of single men under the

01:50:53.620 age of 30, 18 to 30, report not approaching a woman in the last year. About 82% of women

01:50:58.840 report experiencing creepy behavior, sometimes, often, or always by men, right? So you have

01:51:06.520 guys not approaching women for fear of making them uncomfortable, for fear of being a part of 1.00

01:51:11.680 some news story. Women also being made to feel uncomfortable, at least sometimes during their

01:51:17.080 life. But 86% of women said that they want a man to make the first move.

01:51:21.680 Exactly.

01:51:22.220 So let's try and square this circle, right? You have women, guys know that if they don't 1.00

01:51:26.980 make the first move, nothing's really going to happen because 86% of women say that they 1.00

01:51:30.280 want to do it. Women also kind of want guys to make the first move, but are fearful because 0.52

01:51:35.600 sometimes they're creepy and they are the more vulnerable sex.

01:51:39.240 Exactly. So like in this, an acceptance of, okay, there needs to be a buffer zone for

01:51:45.680 well-meaning and non-dangerous errors to be made. You know, a guy was a little bit silly 0.98

01:51:54.540 with the way that he came up to you. Don't mock him. Don't make him feel small or stupid 0.97

01:51:59.120 because he wasn't super cool when he came up and tried to say hello in a polite way, or 0.97

01:52:03.840 you've got a boyfriend and you can like laugh in his face. Like, because you are scarring

01:52:08.100 that guy for the next girl that he is going to go up to that does really want to speak

01:52:12.100 to him. And we're in the aftershock of a time where guys were really told like, your presence

01:52:17.640 is dangerous. Your gaze is toxic. Your gaze can make a woman feel uncomfortable. And that's 0.99

01:52:22.580 not to say that it can't. If you've been stared at on the subway by someone for four stops,

01:52:26.580 I bet that that really makes you very, very uncomfortable as a woman.

01:52:29.420 It's a defining fact of women's lives. It's messy. Oh, it's super complicated. 1.00

01:52:35.540 This is messy and difficult and just saying, hey, let's, let's just give a little bit of

01:52:41.220 leeway. And now you may or may not have seen these videos. There's these women 1.00

01:52:44.480 stealing finance bro salads from sweet greens in Manhattan. This girl, this TikTok of a girl 0.97

01:52:51.800 talking about, she's a real attractive girl. She's doing her hair, getting ready. And she's

01:52:55.500 saying that some of her friends go to salad bars and steal the salads that are waiting

01:53:02.020 on the side that have been ordered for pre-collection from these guys that work on Wall Street. And

01:53:07.400 then they find them on Instagram based on the name that's on the top of the order and message

01:53:12.200 them and say, I'm so sorry. I accidentally picked up your salad as a counter to the fact

01:53:17.220 that so few men that are eligible are approaching women. There's another video of a girl walking

01:53:22.480 through Central Park. They're really clever. I must say. They wipe the floor with guys with that

01:53:28.560 social stuff. Another girl walking through Central Park and she's like glowing skin, 0.98

01:53:33.060 like low cut top, attractive woman, mid twenties, whatever. And she's basically saying like walking 1.00

01:53:37.660 through Central Park, my hair's great. My skin's great. I've got the boobs out today. And I wonder

01:53:42.460 if any man is going to approach me. So it's evident to me that there is a world of women who 0.71

01:53:48.800 really would quite like to be approached more by guys and the men who needed a little bit more

01:53:56.040 encouragement, I think is still on the timid side. And unfortunately, the guys that were

01:53:59.980 blasting through boundaries just disregarded the advice of me too. In any case, I think the wisest

01:54:04.380 thing you said artfully was this is just incredibly complex and that it may in some sense be beyond the

01:54:11.640 capacity of people to really understand it. But you do the thing that is necessary that will fix it,

01:54:17.800 which is just tell the truth about what you see, be sincere about what you observe, you know,

01:54:23.660 try to make things better. Like that's the only answer. It's, we got here because of lying.

01:54:28.120 People just like lying about obvious things, denying what their senses tell them for ideological

01:54:33.780 reasons or whatever dark reason. But like lying is just bad and you always wind up in a bad place

01:54:38.300 when you do it. And so I think you are a truth teller on these questions and I really appreciate all

01:54:45.080 the time you took today. I appreciate you too, man. Thank you. And no judgment to the choking fantasy

01:54:50.660 people, but that is creepy. Thank you.

01:55:02.060 We've got a new website we hope you will visit. It's called newcommissionnow.com and it refers to

01:55:08.980 a new 9-11 commission. So we spent months putting together our 9-11 documentary series.

01:55:15.100 And if there's one thing we learned, it's that in fact, there was foreknowledge of the attacks.

01:55:22.340 People knew. The American public deserves to know. We're shocked actually to learn that,

01:55:27.380 to have that confirmed, but it's true. The evidence is overwhelming. The CIA, for example,

01:55:30.800 knew the hijackers were here in the United States. They knew they were planning an act of terror.

01:55:35.380 In his passport is a visa to go to the United States of America. A foreign national was caught 1.00

01:55:41.460 celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote,

01:55:45.760 to document the event. How did he know there would be an event to document in the first place?

01:55:50.180 Because he had foreknowledge. And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor,

01:55:55.960 shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on 9-11,

01:56:01.460 as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks.

01:56:05.580 They made money on the 9-11 attacks because they knew they were coming. Who did that?

01:56:11.460 You have to look at the evidence.

01:56:13.740 The U.S. government learned the name of that investor, but never released it.

01:56:20.000 Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this, but there isn't actually. And by the way,

01:56:24.440 it doesn't matter whether there is or not. The public deserves to know what the hell that was.

01:56:29.980 How did people know ahead of time? Why was no one ever punished for it?

01:56:33.280 The 9-11 Commission, the original one, was a fraud. It was fake.

01:56:38.240 Its conclusions were written before the investigation. That's true. And it's outrageous.

01:56:44.100 This country needs a new 9-11 Commission, one that actually tells the truth that tries to get to 1.00

01:56:49.160 the bottom of the story. We can't just move on like nothing happened.

01:56:53.580 9-11 Commission is a cover.

01:56:56.120 Something did happen. We need to force a new investigation into 9-11 almost 25 years later.

01:57:03.800 Sorry, justice demands it. And if you want that, go to newcommissionnow.com to add your name to our petition.

01:57:11.780 We're not getting paid for this. We're doing this because we really mean it.

01:57:14.080 Newcommissionnow.com.

01:57:16.120 Newcommissionnow.com.

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01:57:24.140 Newcommission.com.

The Tucker Carlson Show - November 03, 2025

Chris Williamson’s Advice to Men： How to Survive a World of OnlyFans and AI Girlfriends

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