The Tucker Carlson Show - Dave Smith： Mossad, WWII Myths, FBI Cover-Ups, and Trump’s Critical Next Move in Iran

00:00:00.000 so it does seem like in addition to everything first of all Dave thank you

00:00:07.240 as as always we're late because we just had such a long breakfast two and a half

00:00:10.520 hour breakfast I hope this conversation could be as interesting as our breakfast

00:00:15.000 just was but in addition everything else changing you made such a smart point a

00:00:20.880 minute ago about the means of convincing the public the propaganda machine is

00:00:26.880 is completely broken and so what does that mean you're in the middle of a war you're the middle

00:00:32.400 of a of a massive power shift globally like everything is changing the economy military

00:00:38.820 strength like everything and it's impossible to know who is telling the truth like who comes out

00:00:46.220 more credible in this in the media like who are the people you listen to what's that look like

00:00:51.360 well i think everybody who's being authentic i think is is who's coming out ahead of this

00:00:56.800 It seems like if you look at like the podcast numbers, you know what I mean?

00:01:01.800 Like it's the people who are being critical of the regime's policies.

00:01:07.620 It's the people, you know, from my perspective, the people who are telling the truth.

00:01:11.020 And so in the media world, I think there's been this, you know, as you know, because you were in the old media world for so long.

00:01:21.100 Only 35 years.

00:01:22.060 There you go.

00:01:22.600 Not that long.

00:01:23.500 A little bit.

00:01:24.300 You put a little bit of time in.

00:01:25.320 I'm implicated.

00:01:25.860 But look, I always thought, and I mean this, I used to watch you back on your MSNBC show, and you were always one of the very few kind of authentic people.

00:01:37.980 Even when you were wrong about stuff and things that you look back on and you're like, oh, I've changed my mind about all that.

00:01:42.560 But it's an incredibly phony world.

00:01:45.420 Like news in general, there's something about it that's very, you know, it's very, welcome back to the six o'clock news.

00:01:52.040 It's just like, what is that?

00:01:53.380 That's not how you talk.

00:01:54.180 Well, credibility doesn't derive from being right about everything.

00:01:57.460 Credibility derives from being honest.

00:01:59.060 Yes, yes.

00:01:59.660 But so I think after the first 20 years or so, first 15 years of the 21st century, and, you know, at this point, we're 26 years into the 21st century now, it's the government, every single crisis that's happened, and we've had quite a few, you know, 9-11, and we had the global war on terrorism.

00:02:23.040 we had uh the huge financial crash in 2008 we had covid we had that okay so on every single crises

00:02:29.680 the government and the media just lied through their teeth to the american people and got exposed

00:02:34.120 like it's not like anyone now thinks like maybe saddam really did have weapons of mass destruction

00:02:37.900 like we all know we all know if you get the vaccine you can get covid turns out you can get

00:02:43.360 covid even after having the vaccine as everyone who got the vaccine also got covid or just about

00:02:48.300 um and and so it was like all these phonies in media lying us on behalf of power lying to us

00:02:56.780 about these policies and at the same time as they were getting exposed for all of this and i do

00:03:02.180 think covid did it almost more than anything because the global war on terrorism was over

00:03:06.260 there but covid was over here and affected everyone also obviously the you know covering

00:03:12.880 for a clearly um senile president was a pretty easy one for everyone to see through but so

00:03:19.740 while all that was happening also the technology you know simultaneously got to a point where

00:03:26.880 you know you can do this for a reasonable amount of money you know what i mean like it's not

00:03:33.240 in 1980 if you wanted to set up your own tv studio you needed a corporation to get behind you because

00:03:39.380 is who had the resources?

00:03:41.060 Whereas everyone now can open their computer.

00:03:43.220 If you have a phone, you can record yourself

00:03:45.080 and put it out there.

00:03:45.920 So the technology allowed for tremendous parity,

00:03:49.280 and the lying us into all of these disasters

00:03:52.360 resulted in people really craving authenticity.

00:03:56.000 And so it's just like the propaganda machine got broken.

00:04:01.080 Now, to your point, the policies are still going on,

00:04:05.400 and that just creates a very interesting new time.

00:04:08.660 Like there just, there never was, I cannot imagine

00:04:14.060 if while George W. Bush was trying to, you know,

00:04:18.060 push the war in Iraq, let's say for all of 2002,

00:04:20.820 they spent the full year building the case for what,

00:04:23.500 well imagine every day, Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity

00:04:27.200 were calling out George W. Bush for his lies.

00:04:30.340 Like the people who George W. Bush voters trusted the most

00:04:35.060 We're hearing their favorite newscaster calling it, telling the truth, doing news.

00:04:40.980 Well, you can't even fathom what that would be like.

00:04:43.000 Well, that's what it's like now.

00:04:44.560 Now, that's the situation.

00:04:46.900 And I don't know what that means exactly, but I know that governments all around the

00:04:52.660 world have invested heavily in propaganda campaigns for a reason, because they think

00:04:57.840 that's really important.

00:04:59.200 They think it's important that they don't just go invade Iraq, but that they convince

00:05:02.120 you first that he's got nuclear weapons and he's in bed with the terrorists and they're, you know,

00:05:07.160 whatever Condoleezza Rice, we don't want the warning to be in the form of a mushroom cloud

00:05:11.160 from the bomb that doesn't exist. His terrorist friends who he hates, who he's not friends with

00:05:15.800 at all. But, um, but so now we're in this new world and it's very exciting as someone who's

00:05:23.080 a part of it. And it's, it's an exciting moment to be alive, but it is certainly a dangerous one.

00:05:28.980 you know they say the most dangerous time for a woman to leave and the most dangerous time for an

00:05:34.040 abused woman is when she tries to leave yeah right like that's when he might kill you and that's kind

00:05:39.920 of how i feel about the government right now i think you're i think that's so first of all so

00:05:43.780 well put and also so true because it can't actually last that much longer because the disparity

00:05:51.060 in power is too great so i think a lot of people who have podcasts um i've been in so many different

00:05:58.300 kinds of media it's hard to remember what this one's called it's podcasting it's the same you

00:06:00.840 know sure it's a kind of silly term that doesn't really make sense it doesn't we don't have ipods

00:06:04.500 anymore i don't know why it just if that one just stuck for whatever reason it's so true but people

00:06:08.800 who have you know in independent media feel like they have a lot of power well i've got so much

00:06:12.920 power they have no power they don't control the the medium really they don't control youtube

00:06:19.460 no they don't have the fbi at their disposal they don't have nuclear weapons so actually

00:06:26.540 they are powerless and through a quirk of history because we're in a change moment

00:06:32.060 that's not obvious but it has to be obvious there's too much at stake right yeah i there was a

00:06:37.920 don't they have to be crushed i think it was the cnn lady she used to work for vice i believe

00:06:42.720 but the the girl who was like known for interviewing like the alt-right figures and

00:06:47.800 she interviewed tim dylan last year and it was right after trump uh won his election and or

00:06:53.760 shortly after and she said you know something like you guys are the real uh the power center

00:06:59.460 now you know and she's like yeah you podcasters you guys are the ones with power because i guess

00:07:03.240 well okay more people watch these shows than watch the traditional shows right and trump came and did

00:07:08.300 a bunch of them and then he won re-election and kamala harris was too scared for wisely people

00:07:13.600 say that was a real mistake she should have done rogan no it wasn't it was a really good call it

00:07:17.960 was a really, really good call by her team to not do Rogan, actually. It's like after

00:07:22.420 2016 when they were like, you know, Hillary Clinton's campaign is so stupid. She didn't

00:07:27.080 visit Wisconsin more. And you're like, you really think they're that stupid? No, her

00:07:30.620 numbers went down every time she went. So they were like, stop going.

00:07:33.600 They didn't like her. That's why she didn't go.

00:07:35.340 It was actually her best chance was that. But anyway, but so the, so, you know, they

00:07:40.380 say, oh, you guys, you know, since you guys got president Trump elected, you're the real

00:07:44.220 power center now and it's like pretty sure the cia still has a little bit of power i think there's

00:07:48.740 still like a little bit hanging on in the pentagon i'm not quite sure it's all in theo vaughn's hands

00:07:53.980 at this point you know um but yes so so that's the dynamic continue i mean let's be totally honest

00:08:00.880 if you what everyone forgets about tank man in tiananmen square is like he probably got we don't

00:08:07.040 even know what happened to him we don't know his name probably crushed by the tank actually

00:08:10.600 right certainly yes I'm not laughing I am laughing because just the delusion that people have I've

00:08:17.780 got a voice it's like no well but that's the weird it's very strange for both these things to be

00:08:24.840 going on at the same time that's why I said to you at breakfast my my uh analogy is the you know

00:08:29.920 on the roadrunner cartoons when you run off the side of the cliff yeah but you're still in air

00:08:34.140 for a moment and then you look down and realize oh it's like we're there like we're how can you

00:08:38.840 keep doing this. So those people, I mean, and, and, you know, obviously from, for me personally,

00:08:44.980 like it's kind of fascinating cause I've been in this world, uh, and over the last, uh, two and a

00:08:52.100 half years or so I've done, I mean, like if you count like all the, you know, debates and that

00:08:58.400 Pierce Morgan debates or Oxford style, I've done like 35, 40 debates on, you know, just Israel or

00:09:06.300 the warfare state or whatever it is, Ukraine, a lot of these things. And I've never, it's like

00:09:13.900 the side, broadly speaking, because there's a lot of differences amongst people who disagree with,

00:09:18.780 say, the war in Iran or U.S. support for Israel destroying Gaza. But broadly speaking,

00:09:27.140 it's not only like we've won the debate, we've like just crushed the, you know, it's not just

00:09:34.880 I mean, there's lots of people involved in this.

00:09:37.400 You more so probably than anyone.

00:09:39.820 But when you see, like, you look at the polls,

00:09:42.540 there was this one poll I saw,

00:09:44.540 and this is just one poll,

00:09:45.480 but there's a lot that back this up,

00:09:47.000 but that it was before October 7th,

00:09:50.460 they'd ask, who do you sympathize with more,

00:09:52.600 the Israelis or the Palestinians?

00:09:54.660 And it was plus 48 for the Israelis.

00:09:58.060 It's now plus one for the Palestinians.

00:10:01.280 And-

00:10:02.120 In the U.S.

00:10:02.960 And to just think,

00:10:03.960 So basically a 50 point shift in a little over two years.

00:10:08.120 And Tucker, I mean, I don't know, you've been,

00:10:11.820 you were doing this for longer than me.

00:10:14.620 When does that ever happen?

00:10:16.680 When does any issue ever swing by 50 points in two years?

00:10:21.040 It'd be like, if I were to tell you in two years,

00:10:24.800 this country would be 95% pro-life.

00:10:28.080 You'd be like, whoa, what happened in those two years?

00:10:31.460 I mean, the pro-lifers must have really won the argument, you know what I mean?

00:10:35.220 And so now that we've had, for the first time ever, a media environment where, say, Israel is not completely protected,

00:10:41.820 like, what were the debates about supporting Israel on MSNBC or CNN?

00:10:46.260 No, they don't exist. They never happen.

00:10:48.240 You're not allowed to have those debates there.

00:10:50.260 There's not maybe like one kind of critical of Israel host will slip in here or there.

00:10:54.880 But if he says too much, he's getting fired pretty quickly.

00:10:57.560 And so we essentially won the debate.

00:11:00.260 we it's not close it's not but there's not a question of fast yes in a very short period of

00:11:05.420 time because there was actually a fair open media system now wherever you know it was really

00:11:10.480 democratized in in a way and so you can't look and go does you know are you're bigger than you've

00:11:19.020 ever been before candace owens is bigger than she's ever been before i know i'm bigger than

00:11:22.860 i've ever been before ben shapiro is weaker and more of a laughing stock than ever before you

00:11:27.560 You know, like, it's just very, but then at the same time, who won the policy game?

00:11:33.580 Mark Levin, you know, the president is tweeting, go watch Mark Levin's show today.

00:11:38.400 And his, his base, his voters are going, I think I'll check out Tucker Carlson, you know,

00:11:45.360 I think I'll, and so, so anyway, there's just this very weird thing where like, we won the

00:11:50.180 argument, we had the national debate, we, and we won.

00:11:54.500 And yet we're at war with Iran on behalf of Israel.

00:11:58.100 And I think what you're getting at is like that does just feel totally unsustainable.

00:12:03.580 Like there's either you got to clamp down on these guys like us or you got to reverse the policy.

00:12:11.260 And I'm really hoping it's the latter.

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00:14:54.680 People don't like to be criticized for their mistakes. And I know this from having a wife

00:14:58.620 and children. Totally fine to be, you know, criticized for something you feel confident

00:15:03.560 is the right thing, but if you screw something up

00:15:05.680 and someone says, say, say, I told you,

00:15:08.400 you want to shoot the person.

00:15:09.700 It's very hard for people to deal with that.

00:15:12.000 And so if you have a war like this,

00:15:13.960 which is obviously, you know,

00:15:16.600 this is one of the most profound moments of my lifetime.

00:15:18.640 This is much more profound than 9-11, I think.

00:15:22.820 Thankfully, relatively few Americans have died,

00:15:25.940 but you can see that this is the end of something.

00:15:28.780 And the consequences are very, very serious.

00:15:31.320 in the middle of that to criticize the decision to start the process that led to this

00:15:38.360 feels like you're going to be punished for that yeah do you feel that yes i i know exactly what

00:15:44.040 you mean and i you know i i almost um like on some i don't know in some way i feel like i like

00:15:51.500 the political thing or the the wise calculation here would almost be to be like uh mr president

00:15:58.180 Trump, you did such a phenomenal job with this. And it's such a success that we should just stop

00:16:01.860 right now and declare victory or something like, you know what I mean? But I'm just no good at

00:16:05.420 being a political operative. I'm only good at telling the truth. Like it's all I, I only have

00:16:10.380 one speed. Ben Shapiro called me out recently and called me a bunch of names. And then he said,

00:16:17.300 I know I can hear Dave right now saying, debate me, bro. If you believe this, why don't you

00:16:22.260 debate me? And he goes, no, no, I don't debate with it. But he's kind of right in a way that

00:16:26.820 That is my response.

00:16:28.380 I mean, I only have one speed.

00:16:29.960 It's all I know how to do.

00:16:31.400 Like, come podcast with me.

00:16:33.100 Like, I don't know anything else.

00:16:35.320 Well, because you're rooted in kind of the old America where, you know, there was a free market, not just in the economy, but like intellectually, free market of ideas.

00:16:43.340 Yeah.

00:16:43.660 We're supposed to have it at least.

00:16:45.740 Yeah.

00:16:46.060 The whole country was built on that.

00:16:47.600 Yeah.

00:16:47.820 But Ben Shapiro and et cetera, they don't share that view at all.

00:16:51.620 He knows the ideas can't hold up.

00:16:53.160 I mean, he'll, he'll debate a 19 year old gender confused kid because he knows he can win that debate. You know, it's not that that kid's more serious than me. You know, that's not really the issue. But the, but anyway, I guess. So just that, like, I only have one speed. I only know how to just tell you what I think is, is really going on here. And, and I think you're right. I think it's, this is such a disaster because Donald Trump, first of all, it'd be very difficult at this point, even if he wanted to just stop the thing, which I think he does.

00:17:23.160 does at this point want to stop the thing um i think he it seems to me like he believed this

00:17:28.240 could be quick and easy like venezuela and we're way past that at this point but he can't just

00:17:34.100 stop now but obviously there's the iranians and the israelis are involved in this too and it

00:17:39.460 doesn't it doesn't seem like either of them want to stop right now um so there you got a big problem

00:17:44.820 but also look this isn't venezuela there there's uh i don't know what the latest centcom numbers

00:17:51.320 are. I thought 13 dead Americans was the last I saw. The 150 plus wounded number came out weeks

00:17:57.360 ago. I don't know what that's up to now. Our bases in the region have been very badly damaged.

00:18:05.980 The damage to the global economy. So it's not Venezuela. You can't just come out of this

00:18:10.280 and then pretend something really great happened. If he stops right now, then it's like, oh,

00:18:16.580 you just started a disaster for no reason on behalf of a foreign country like this is just

00:18:21.400 awful and then there's a couple factors i've seen this play i know you've seen this over the years

00:18:27.660 certainly during the global war on terrorism where there is i guess what you could call

00:18:32.220 like the sunk cost fallacy of war which is the worst of all sunk cost fallacies you know but

00:18:38.320 it's you go uh you go well those boys died for nothing if we don't finish the job and it's like

00:18:45.960 oh man is that a bad trap to get into because the reality is that those boys died for nothing

00:18:51.400 that's over and if you continue this more boys will die for nothing that's correct and so no

00:18:57.580 one you know uh um pierce morgan had a a panel once or a debate between scott horton who is the

00:19:06.940 as you know you've had him on the show the most incredible foreign policy guy in the country

00:19:10.300 like just unbelievable levels of brilliance and his books enough already uh fool's errand which

00:19:16.640 are about the global war on terrorism are the best books written on the subject his book provoked

00:19:21.280 about the war in ukraine is the best book written on they're literally exhaustive i only know scott

00:19:25.160 horton because of you and what uh improvement to my life yeah i mean he's the he is that he has

00:19:30.760 been such an incredible resource like he's a good great friend of mine uh one of my closest friends

00:19:35.420 but he's also just been he's like my mentor in the foreign policy stuff and he's just so great

00:19:39.960 Because he's like, he's such a tool because he's got a photographic memory.

00:19:43.560 So like I can literally just call him at any point and you'll just be like, when Iran invaded

00:19:48.380 Iraq in 1980, in 1982, weren't they fighting here?

00:19:51.540 And then he'll just be like, yeah, they were fighting here and here.

00:19:53.240 And then this guy has all their names and everything.

00:19:54.940 It's really incredible.

00:19:55.980 But so he was debating Wesley Clark on Pierce Morgan's show.

00:20:00.980 Talk about the new media world that we live in and how crazy it is now that Scott Horton

00:20:05.040 gets to square off with the four star general.

00:20:07.800 And Wesley Clark, who, you know, look, I have my issues with him, but he did give us that great admission about the seven countries in five years.

00:20:16.380 So I'll always kind of be grateful to him now.

00:20:18.160 He tries to walk that back.

00:20:19.180 But we all heard what you said.

00:20:21.460 But he goes at one point talking about, I believe it was Gaza, if I'm getting this correct.

00:20:27.520 And he said this was while it was still, you know, intensely going on.

00:20:31.200 And he goes, but if we just leave now, then Hamas gets to say they won.

00:20:35.820 and you're like sir general that's your opinion on war but that's a recipe to be in forever war

00:20:45.660 always we can't ever leave anywhere because so what happens is you get this thing where it's

00:20:50.760 like there's the sunk cost fallacy we can't leave now because we we have to win and then donald trump

00:20:56.100 is now of course he put his entire presidency on the line for this which was really foolish

00:21:02.240 and so now he's just he's he's got to get a win let me get a win and then i can get out you know

00:21:08.120 so let's do a big thing but then you do a big thing and they respond with a big thing and then

00:21:12.840 you go shoot now we got to respond to that thing and this is the escalation trap right like that

00:21:18.380 and and this was what people like me and you have been talking about for years and at the all the

00:21:24.640 war hawks in the country really enjoyed mocking me and you for the last seven months or whatever

00:21:29.840 it's been from between the 12-day war and this latest war in Iran going, oh, you guys were acting

00:21:35.540 like this was going to be a disaster. And look, it wasn't a disaster. Okay, we're back in it now,

00:21:40.720 and it's a disaster. And precisely zero of those people are going, oh, I guess I was wrong about

00:21:46.220 that. No, no, they'll be clamoring for you to be arrested and imprisoned. Of course, right? Because

00:21:51.960 your existence is a mark of shame because you remember. So anyone who remembers has to be

00:21:58.960 taken off the board I'm just interested not I never think about um you know those those people

00:22:06.200 the Mark Levin I say a prayer for Mark Levin every day because it's my religion I'm supposed to

00:22:09.660 but he's not I mean Mark Levin's an idiot he's not pulling any strings he's a tool of larger

00:22:15.100 forces yes what I'm fascinated by are the assumptions that like ordinary non-Mark Levin

00:22:21.100 Americans have about the United States the nature of power history that allowed us to make the

00:22:26.240 greatest mistake of my lifetime which is this war what are those and a lot of this has to do

00:22:31.720 with the second world war yeah oh yeah so we're reading the wrong lessons into that and i just

00:22:39.180 want to say for the hundredth time i'm the opposite of pro-nazi i'm against authoritarianism in all

00:22:43.720 its forms but why is it that we look at the second world war and then make a bunch of false assumptions

00:22:51.720 that get us into engagements like this

00:22:54.780 that hurt us?

00:22:56.020 What is that?

00:22:56.660 What are the myths?

00:22:58.200 Well, I think the way I look at it, right,

00:23:00.900 and this is, you know,

00:23:03.900 I've defended Daryl Cooper quite publicly,

00:23:07.240 quite often for what he said on your show,

00:23:09.340 which really, it was,

00:23:10.360 by the way, it's so revealing

00:23:11.640 and totally proves his point,

00:23:14.000 the response to that.

00:23:15.260 It was insane.

00:23:15.600 Because there's just no reason

00:23:16.720 why that should have been such a huge thing,

00:23:18.860 you know, but like the thing is that-

00:23:20.980 Daryl Cooper, did Hitler kill a lot of Jews?

00:23:22.880 Yeah, he did.

00:23:23.600 He did like hours of podcasts on it.

00:23:25.360 Yes.

00:23:25.780 Of course Hitler killed a lot of Jews.

00:23:27.360 I mean, what?

00:23:28.220 That's not even up.

00:23:28.780 He just put out episode two of his new series on World War II, which I have not, I heard

00:23:34.240 the first one.

00:23:34.640 I have not gotten a chance to listen to the second one yet, but the first one's so good.

00:23:37.440 They're all so good.

00:23:38.180 But it's not really about that.

00:23:39.100 I don't think any sane person, I've never heard anybody in my life say Hitler didn't

00:23:42.920 kill a ton of Jews or like love the Jews.

00:23:45.040 No, Hitler hated the Jews, killed a ton of Jews.

00:23:47.080 That's bad.

00:23:47.880 Everyone agrees with that.

00:23:48.860 it's not really the holocaust that they're mad about that's not well look i mean the threat right

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00:25:24.580 So World War II was, objectively speaking, the worst thing that's ever happened in the world.

00:25:31.420 Yes.

00:25:31.780 Right? It was the biggest bloodbath in human history.

00:25:33.920 Exactly.

00:25:34.260 And destroyed Europe.

00:25:35.560 and go it's just so it's so horrible you think about that that humanity reached such a height

00:25:42.580 in the 19th century the 19th century there's two things that happened that could not have been

00:25:48.920 predicted you would have seemed insane if you had predicted it beforehand probably the two

00:25:53.500 greatest achievements in human history are that um well there's the industrial revolution and for

00:25:59.320 the first time ever they're like there's economic growth you know like if you if you look at economic

00:26:04.540 growth on a chart it basically doesn't exist until the industrial revolution and then it shoots up

00:26:09.220 yes yes so for the first time ever human beings escaped like the back brushing uh back breaking

00:26:17.240 poverty of nature you know what i mean like or they escaped zero sum economics yes well right

00:26:22.960 zero sum economics but just where people got rich by looting now you can get rich by creating things

00:26:27.660 that didn't exist and we could raise the standard of living in a meaningful way in very basic you

00:26:31.700 ways. And also there was the abolition of slavery, which just would have seemed like

00:26:36.960 that was the way of the world for all of human history. And I'm saying the abolition of slavery

00:26:41.080 in the West. Obviously, there were other parts of the world that still had it. And the industrial

00:26:44.380 evolution was in the West also. But these amazing things happen. And then in the 20th

00:26:49.240 century, we take that industrial capacity to go to total war with each other. And in

00:26:56.220 the case of the First World War, just over nonsense. I mean, over a political assassination.

00:27:00.580 It's not even clear.

00:27:01.580 Yeah, it's not like somehow this thing spins into this catastrophe.

00:27:05.300 But so after World War II, that's even bloodier than World War I, which was supposed to be

00:27:08.900 the war to end all wars.

00:27:10.640 And it wasn't.

00:27:11.640 It was the war to create the conditions for the worst war in human history.

00:27:16.540 And of course, as you've talked about and gotten a lot of heat for, civilians were targeted

00:27:21.780 on all sides.

00:27:22.780 Now, of course, we didn't go genocidal in the way that Adolf Hitler went, but we targeted

00:27:28.380 cities when we knew the military was out, you know, targeting women and children, dropping

00:27:33.160 nuclear bombs on, on cities. And so, and also, um, the kind of the, the military industrial

00:27:43.320 complex, the national security apparatus were truly created, um, in, in the aftermath of,

00:27:49.600 of world war two, like there were intelligence, but the CIA is created and the, you know,

00:27:53.860 The form of government that we actually live under

00:27:56.180 was kind of erected during and after World War II.

00:27:59.240 And so you've got the most profoundly awful thing

00:28:03.060 that's ever happened and this new government

00:28:05.920 plus a new government in Israel a couple years later

00:28:08.580 that are created.

00:28:09.920 And so when you have something like that,

00:28:13.740 you really gotta tell yourself a damn good story

00:28:17.160 about why that is justified.

00:28:19.400 And that's not, when you say this,

00:28:21.000 sometimes people go, oh, so are you saying the Holocaust

00:28:22.540 didn't really happen?

00:28:23.300 no they don't it really happened it really happened the point is that yes the point is

00:28:27.580 that the holocaust happened in a context of 60 million people dying you know what i mean like

00:28:32.600 it's just so funny it's all reduced to the okay just to be totally clear not denying the holocaust

00:28:36.840 okay it's not about that the thing the immediate post-war changes that you just listed the

00:28:43.520 de-industrialization of the west the partition of india the you know the creation of the national

00:28:50.860 security state if i could say an authoritarian national security state in the west the you know

00:28:56.100 delivering half of europe to the soviets yeah the partition of germany like these are all the

00:29:02.400 genocide of german civilians after genocide of german civilians after the war mass mass ethnic

00:29:08.720 cleansing mass mass rapes and murders and all types of horrible so none of it's not a defense

00:29:14.320 of Hitler, whom I oppose, to say, all of those are bad.

00:29:19.180 It's just kind of interesting that this war, which was supposedly so great, gave birth

00:29:24.300 to things that are just objectively the worst things.

00:29:26.680 Yeah, and-

00:29:27.480 What is that?

00:29:27.960 Well, look, I mean, it's a disaster of government, you know, total power.

00:29:35.520 And there, but look, even like, if you say like, if you're talking about the Revolutionary

00:29:39.480 War, like let's just say like back in the 1980s or something like, it's a school teacher

00:29:43.020 was teaching kids about the Revolutionary War. They don't go like, well, you know, the King of

00:29:48.480 England was taxing a little bit more than he should. And then the framers kind of had these

00:29:53.660 wild conspiracy theories about what he was going to come do. None of that was really true. And

00:29:58.340 anyway, they got into the, you know, they tell you George Washington never told a lie. And when

00:30:02.700 he chopped down the apple tree, he said to his pa, I can't lie to you. Cause like human beings

00:30:07.720 just need this narrative of course and so what ended up happening was that the the very when

00:30:15.040 you challenge world war ii orthodoxies you're challenging what daryl calls the load-bearing

00:30:21.620 myths you know the the load-bearing pillars right of the existence of the most powerful forces in

00:30:28.320 the world and you know you know look it's it's very clear like again the reaction to daryl is

00:30:33.300 the proof of the claim like what is this if somebody were to say you know this is how you

00:30:39.320 find out what the national religion really is you know i could sit here and trash thomas jefferson

00:30:44.400 for raping his slaves doesn't matter what it doesn't matter this isn't going to generate any

00:30:49.440 outrage at all you know um in fact it might generate some applause from in different quarters

00:30:54.460 and so but but you talk about this and it's very very different and then as you've seen as we've

00:31:00.680 all seen it's used to justify every subsequent war i mean like everybody is just by authoritarianism

00:31:09.540 yeah that's right everybody is adolf hitler i've lived through the the you know um it's

00:31:16.680 saddam hussein was adolf hitler noriega was adolf hitler bashar al-assad is adolf hitler

00:31:21.400 vladimir putin's adolf hitler you're adolf hitler nick fuentes is adolf hit like every

00:31:25.660 every time they want to smear someone that's the smear they go with Donald Trump got the same

00:31:30.680 treatment um and and anytime you oppose a war well you're Neville Chamberlain you know if I

00:31:38.120 if I think like hey we should just put in writing that will never bring Ukraine into NATO because

00:31:43.040 man this is causing all these problems okay Neville Chamberlain you would have just given

00:31:47.160 Czechoslovakia it's like dude that's not the only lesson in history the only lesson in history is

00:31:52.800 not always go with aggression never go with de-escalation but so that's kind of what this

00:31:58.600 has been turned into and i do think um but i would just say big picture if it was such a victory

00:32:04.860 why are all the winners falling apart less than 100 years later yeah yeah that's like what i don't

00:32:12.440 again shut up you're pro hitler for the fifth time not pro hitler in any sense well no but what's

00:32:18.940 the answer to that question well there's a brilliant uh philosopher named uh rosie perez

00:32:24.340 and in the film white men can't jump she said sometimes when you win you really lose yeah and

00:32:31.620 you know it is it is such a simple but very very true statement and there is something about well

00:32:38.660 isn't it kind of interesting that the united states of america started as the experiment in

00:32:45.840 restrained government, right? Like there had really never been a government that was created

00:32:49.980 that was so restrained. And the whole idea of it was like, we're going to take the power of a king

00:32:54.680 and then we're going to scatter that amongst three different branches in the federal government. And

00:32:59.500 the federal government really only oversees all these state governments that have their own

00:33:03.640 autonomy. And we are these United States of America. And even as we became more centralized,

00:33:09.740 obviously the Articles of Confederation got overthrown and the constitution gets put in

00:33:13.660 And and then, you know, but even say, like, if you look after this from the end of the Civil War, this was always the best stuff about, like, Milton Friedman books and stuff.

00:33:24.480 But in this part, I really think those Chicago guys got it right.

00:33:28.460 That if you look from the end of the Civil War, so like 19 or excuse me, 1865 to around, say, 1910.

00:33:36.680 OK, in this period of time, try to imagine that this was our government.

00:33:41.300 OK, the U.S. government, the federal government spent like maybe like one and a half or two percent of the national income, a tiny amount of spread.

00:33:50.400 There was no mass federal regulation or anything like that.

00:33:54.000 There was no central bank.

00:33:55.300 There was no income tax.

00:33:56.900 Just try to imagine like this was truly the closest to a real experiment in free market capitalism that humanity had ever seen.

00:34:04.920 And the result of that was the biggest economic expansion in human history.

00:34:10.800 the greatest raising of the lot and life of the average person,

00:34:15.780 you know, like where the average person could actually have a pretty nice life

00:34:18.200 and you could work at the factory and your wife didn't have to work

00:34:21.040 and you owned a house and you sent your kids to college

00:34:23.160 and you drove a couple cars,

00:34:24.700 you played poker on the weekends with your buddy,

00:34:26.500 like you had a good life.

00:34:28.340 And if you look at the United States of America today,

00:34:31.800 it is the most powerful government in the history of the world.

00:34:34.780 Like somehow this thing that started as an experiment

00:34:36.960 in the smallest government became the biggest government

00:34:40.020 that the world's ever known and so there's almost something where well what happens is these free

00:34:44.540 markets create so much prosperity that there's so much more of a tax base and now the political

00:34:49.440 class can tax you more and more and more and you're still living a pretty good life even though

00:34:53.320 they're getting fat off of you you know what i mean and so similarly sometimes something like

00:34:59.580 after world war ii you see this with america and then you really see it after the collapse of the

00:35:04.520 Soviet Union where it's like because you win you get so much power but as Lord Atkins said that

00:35:12.140 power tends to corrupt and so you get all this power but then it totally corrupts your own soul

00:35:18.400 and I think that's kind of the story of America that's and I think it's the story of our lives

00:35:23.000 I mean the number of men I know who've gotten what they wanted what they worked for the job

00:35:28.020 the exit

00:35:29.840 sale of whatever they built

00:35:32.400 all of a sudden they win

00:35:34.220 and then they fall apart

00:35:35.760 I've seen that so much, I've felt it in my own life

00:35:38.200 by the way, for sure

00:35:40.100 easy success is not good

00:35:42.180 for you at all, struggle is

00:35:44.140 good for you, and so I wonder if

00:35:46.080 the United States was hollowed out

00:35:47.980 by its own victory, this

00:35:50.000 loss, and unfortunately I think we can say

00:35:51.940 already, it's hard to imagine getting

00:35:54.020 out of this without being diminished

00:35:55.660 yeah i mean what is what is a victory here i mean you know it's it's also a terrible situation where

00:36:01.080 victory might victory might be the worst case scenario i mean like you know like victory like

00:36:08.020 if the whole goal is to topple the regime you're like okay but every other time we've toppled a

00:36:13.420 regime in this neck of the woods it's led to migrant crises and death and terrorism you can't

00:36:21.260 topple a regime in the Persian Gulf because the world's energy supply needs to move through it.

00:36:26.140 You have to extract it, refine it, make it into petrochemicals, do whatever you want,

00:36:29.560 fertilizer, do whatever you want in the Persian Gulf, and then you have to get it out of the

00:36:32.300 Persian Gulf. So that means you have to have a controlling authority. You have to have strong

00:36:36.320 governments there, or else some rebel group, Houthis with drones, will shut the whole thing

00:36:43.560 down. You have to have, you can't have chaos in Iran. Yeah, they call it the Persian Gulf for a

00:36:49.040 reason exactly you call it the arabian gulf the other half is persian it doesn't matter chaos in

00:36:53.700 the persian gulf means no energy or fertilizer from the persian gulf period so you're going to

00:36:57.820 piracy there so i just so the option to that is keeping an iranian regime in place and that means

00:37:03.940 that iran is more powerful than it was when the war started this is also obvious unless you nuke

00:37:09.640 them which is i think an option and and then you set off a chain reaction that you know is the worst

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00:38:51.360 So anyway, I think there's no way to see this as a win. I pray it is, but I don't see it.

00:38:57.560 if it is a loss maybe that is not all bad for the u.s well there is uh i think sometimes things need

00:39:07.620 to get really bad before they get better you know that things need to get bad so that people wake up

00:39:12.520 even more um there's no question people have woken up a lot but maybe people just need to get

00:39:18.340 angrier you know and and i i don't know i don't know what i'm trying to see this in the fullness

00:39:24.080 of history and god's plan but i just because it feels like such a disaster it's affecting my

00:39:28.680 sleep i love america i have kids i don't want this to happen i'm not in control obviously

00:39:33.020 so but i do think that like you're often surprised by the downstream results of things i think

00:39:39.620 people who return from normandy would be shocked by the condition of the united states

00:39:44.120 and great britain 80 years later they i mean they are shocked have you seen them interviewed some

00:39:48.140 hundred year old guys like we died for this yeah no it's uh and it's totally i mean like

00:39:53.360 talk about just disgracing their sacrifice you know it's the greatest disgrace our self abasement

00:39:59.040 is an insult to their to their sacrifice on our behalf but i wonder if the opposite isn't also

00:40:05.460 true that maybe in your defeat there are things that i know this is true for me every time i've

00:40:11.620 gotten sick or gotten fired like i just i understand the world better and i become more

00:40:17.860 joyful and stronger do you feel that yeah no i know for sure i mean many times in my life and

00:40:23.600 yeah you lose you learn a lot more from your losses yeah your defeats are actually your

00:40:27.180 victories that's right that's right and but that you know the problem is just this is man we're

00:40:33.300 just playing with fire with this thing because it's so dangerous you know it's um what worries

00:40:38.700 you most well um i guess i'd say number one um i what we're doing to those people over there

00:40:48.660 i mean i think it's just like horrible and i don't say this as like i'm not trying to like

00:40:54.880 virtue signal that i care so much more than other people but like when your government takes your

00:41:00.860 money and just starts slaughtering people in in poor countries compared to us you know there's

00:41:07.040 just so profound what you do to others will be done to you yeah that's a physics principle you

00:41:12.060 can't get away from that so that's just well imagine imagine like uh there was a a guy who

00:41:17.200 was uh like a convicted pedophile and he had molested a bunch of like iraqi children or a

00:41:23.520 bunch of iranian children and then you were like well i'm gonna have him babysit my kids he only

00:41:27.820 does it over there you know what i mean like he only he only you're like what no dude he's hurt

00:41:32.560 children you can't let him anywhere near your children okay well these these same monsters in

00:41:36.460 government are the ones who are ruling over me and my family and my country. And the idea that

00:41:41.700 you just go kill, like, you know, I said this on Rogan's show the other day about the school

00:41:48.200 that we had, where he killed like 165 or 170 little girls. And then people, you know, give

00:41:53.780 me, those numbers haven't been verified. That's just the claim of the Iranian government. He goes,

00:41:57.880 well, our government's not denying it. And in fact, they did an investigation and concluded

00:42:02.020 it was almost certainly us. It was a tomahawk missile. What's the question here? We know

00:42:06.380 where this came from the only question left is like who gave it that coordinates or or did it

00:42:10.920 miss or was that intentional whatever but like kill a whole bunch of eight-year-old girls i mean

00:42:17.100 jesus man is there anything more evil you could do than that so just on on a basic human level

00:42:23.260 you know there's like anyone who would do that i think it was clearly accidental but i also think

00:42:28.860 having done a lot of accidental things it's essential to apologize for it yeah and anyone

00:42:33.880 who doesn't apologize for it's a dangerous person.

00:42:36.020 If you'll do that to them, you'll do it to my kids.

00:42:38.400 Yes, and it also stretches the definition

00:42:41.820 of accidental a little bit,

00:42:43.540 because even if very specifically,

00:42:45.320 like we were trying to hit this building,

00:42:46.820 but instead we hit this building,

00:42:48.420 and there's a point I've been making largely

00:42:49.940 through Israel's destruction of Gaza,

00:42:52.700 which was not that at all.

00:42:54.700 They were just leveling the place.

00:42:56.340 But you go, look, man,

00:42:59.020 you start dropping bombs on people,

00:43:01.840 you start blowing things up,

00:43:03.380 you know, innocent people are going to end up dying in that. So in that sense, it is intentional.

00:43:08.140 And maybe you didn't mean to hit that exact, you know, target or kill that many people. But

00:43:12.860 like, if I'm just saying, if you, if you, you know, if you blew up a building, you know, that

00:43:18.600 you, you suspected somebody else was in, but then it turned out that there were a bunch of little

00:43:24.840 kids there, it's still a pretty profound crime. But then of course, on top of that, I really worry

00:43:33.040 about getting trapped into a broader war, a wider war.

00:43:37.380 There is not, I don't, I'm not saying that I think this is going to be like Iraq or Afghanistan.

00:43:43.000 I think already this is very different than Iraq and Afghanistan.

00:43:45.720 Iraq and Afghanistan did not have the ability to do what Iran is doing right now, for one.

00:43:50.140 Number two, I just don't, I don't think it's going to be that.

00:43:54.080 I don't think, I think it would be more the Libya or Syria model than the Iraq or Afghanistan model,

00:44:00.920 which did require a small amount of ground forces,

00:44:03.940 so we used head-chopping bin Ladenites in both of those cases

00:44:07.960 and put the bin Ladenites in power in Syria.

00:44:12.820 But just to be clear,

00:44:16.160 our country would not survive another Iraq or Afghanistan.

00:44:19.720 There's no United States of America coming out of that.

00:44:22.180 We don't have a 20-year catastrophic ground invasion in us.

00:44:25.920 Like, it will bankrupt the country.

00:44:27.740 It will destroy the country culturally.

00:44:30.920 So like, so that's a very scary thing.

00:44:33.060 We don't have, you know, in the launch of the global war on terrorism, we were coming out of the 1990s.

00:44:39.820 This was a different country in the 1990s, you know, and anyone who was alive then knows this.

00:44:45.320 Different people lived here.

00:44:45.780 Yes, yes.

00:44:46.400 Different people, different culture, different economic realities, different military realities.

00:44:50.780 Um, now then the other thing that I really, really worry about with all of this is that we've never really had, we've never dealt with a full like Shiite jihad war against the West.

00:45:05.720 You know, our beef was always with the Sunni radicals.

00:45:08.800 Um, those were the terrorists we had to worry about, the Al Qaeda and ISIS and stuff like that.

00:45:13.240 And that was quite a big problem.

00:45:15.160 You know, we had a lot of terrorist attacks in America and in Europe, particularly ISIS-inspired attacks, Al-Qaeda as well.

00:45:26.480 And, you know, so I've kind of called out some of these people.

00:45:30.940 I'll do it again here because they're like some of the biggest frauds in the country.

00:45:34.720 These like pretend intellectuals like Sam Harris and Gad Saad and guys like this who have spent a career demonizing Muslims.

00:45:44.620 Their entire career has been talking about what irrational, violent people Muslims are,

00:45:50.480 how awful the religion is.

00:45:52.020 And look, there's been some points that I agree with them on.

00:45:55.840 If someone writes a cartoon about Muhammad, you don't have the right to kill them.

00:46:01.120 Sorry.

00:46:01.860 You want to be in the West?

00:46:02.860 These are our rules here.

00:46:03.900 We value free speech, and I can make a cartoon about whatever the hell I want to make a cartoon

00:46:07.520 about.

00:46:08.360 Okay, but if you spent your whole career arguing how violent and irrational the Muslims are,

00:46:13.380 what what does killing an ayatollah mean you know you know that's not just a political figure

00:46:20.540 you know you you murder an ayatollah and his entire family and we've already had a couple

00:46:26.020 terrorist attacks over here that at least seem like there was the shooting in uh austin texas

00:46:31.240 that came like the day after we launched the war and the guy was wearing like an ala akbar t-shirt

00:46:35.820 i'm assuming that might be related and so you know then you have this real issue of like

00:46:42.020 there's unfortunately in um in the old like controlled american media and all the you know

00:46:50.140 the all the people like uh um mark levin and and all these guys when they talk to their audience

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00:46:59.880 america you know which they do and i'd like it if they stopped doing that it's not the nicest chant

00:47:04.820 But none of them ever even try to say, to even approach the question of why.

00:47:13.640 Why do they chant death to America?

00:47:15.360 Why do they hate us so much?

00:47:16.960 And this was always...

00:47:17.680 Well, they hate us for our freedoms.

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00:48:53.040 This was after, this is so funny that it is so funny that that was,

00:48:57.480 funny in a dark way, but that that was actually the question.

00:49:00.280 I remember, I was 18 when 9-11 happened.

00:49:02.960 I remember asking that question with all sincerity and that was actually the national conversation

00:49:08.460 That was the first question before it got answered with they hit when 9-11 happened

00:49:12.800 The average joe six-pack american went why do they hate us?

00:49:17.140 That's how ignorant we were of our own position in the world. We didn't even know there was a beef

00:49:22.300 You know, what are we talking? We thought bill clinton was the time of peace and prosperity

00:49:26.200 That's what americans considered that time the time of peace

00:49:28.920 Iraqis did not consider that a time of peace. Hundreds of thousands of them were getting

00:49:33.120 killed due to the blockade, Clinton's bombing campaign. It wasn't peace in Serbia. You know

00:49:37.920 what I mean? It wasn't like there, but to us, it was like, oh, that has little wars. They didn't

00:49:42.460 really mean anything, you know, but it wasn't. Now, all you got to do is ask that question.

00:49:47.080 And I'm sure it's almost like implicit in the Mark Levin world that, well, why do they hate us?

00:49:52.120 Well, I don't know. Cause they're crazy, dark, dark people. And they hate us. You know,

00:49:55.140 there are islamo-fascists i don't know um that's what they do they hate but if you ask iranians

00:50:02.420 and not the ones who are you know paid by massad to promote wars but like if you they'll tell you

00:50:08.540 very quickly why they hate us and the whole beef right goes back to 1953 we overthrew their

00:50:14.720 government we installed a dictator who they did not like very much who was not very kind to his

00:50:20.020 political opponents, to put it mildly. And then the other big thing that they point out all the

00:50:25.860 time is in 1980, Saddam Hussein invaded Iraq. Now, a lot of people from my generation remember this

00:50:34.940 because this is actually what the neocons would, they would often like vaguely cite this when they

00:50:40.480 were trying to push the war against Iraq. They're like, he used chemical weapons against civilians.

00:50:45.100 like yeah what they leave out is that they were backing him when he did that they facilitated the

00:50:51.680 sale of those chemical weapons to him and they backed and gave the green light for saddam hussein

00:50:56.560 to invade the country and so you know iranians remember that like they remember that there was

00:51:03.480 i think 500 or 600 000 iranians died in that war like they remember this very well by the way

00:51:10.920 another lesson from that war is they never surrendered even after taking losses like that

00:51:16.260 these shiites are not playing around when it comes to matters like that they fought and fought and

00:51:20.780 fought and so anyway i say all that just to say that it's like these things do inspire hatred

00:51:28.300 and they inspire hatred for generations and generations effect is real yeah it turns out

00:51:33.320 in 2002 uh a letter emerged written by osama bin laden who of course was then still alive

00:51:38.940 that he had written right after 9-11 in Kandahar

00:51:42.640 before he fled to Tora Bora,

00:51:44.200 and it came out a year later in the Wall Street Journal,

00:51:46.420 and I worked at CNN at the time,

00:51:47.800 and I read it on the air to answer that question.

00:51:49.840 What is this about? Why did he do this?

00:51:51.700 And the letter, which briefly became famous

00:51:53.440 before it was pulled off the internet,

00:51:55.760 said, you know, I'm mad that you have troops in Saudi,

00:51:59.400 where Mecca and Medina are,

00:52:00.840 and I'm mad about your support for Israel,

00:52:02.520 and that's why I did this.

00:52:04.160 I wasn't trying to justify 9-11.

00:52:05.960 It can't be justified, in my opinion.

00:52:08.360 That's right.

00:52:08.940 but I think it's important to know why things happen

00:52:11.880 because you don't want them to happen again.

00:52:13.940 Well, a group of rabbis got together

00:52:16.660 and called me an anti-Semite,

00:52:18.060 which I wasn't then and I'm not now,

00:52:19.800 and tried to get me fired from my job.

00:52:21.900 I'll never forget that.

00:52:23.420 And CNN called me, the corporate, the lawyer called me,

00:52:26.780 you know, they're all mad at you.

00:52:28.660 And I'm like, I wasn't attacking anybody, of course.

00:52:33.840 I just think it's more than Americans don't know.

00:52:37.280 i think they've been prevented from knowing yeah that's right that you know actions have

00:52:43.180 reactions well that's why you know the the term blowback that was coined by the cia

00:52:48.280 and what they uh described it as was it's it's not just like we do a thing and then there's a

00:52:55.140 reaction to it it's that we do a covert thing and then there's a reaction to it and then the

00:53:00.320 american people have no idea what this is even in response to it's just like whoa out of nowhere

00:53:05.980 these guys attacked us.

00:53:08.340 And, you know, when that...

00:53:09.320 But we're going to need a police state

00:53:10.560 to protect ourselves

00:53:11.560 from the blowback of this war.

00:53:13.240 I mean, that's a real concern.

00:53:15.180 That's the problem.

00:53:15.860 Yeah, that's a real concern.

00:53:16.760 We're so vulnerable.

00:53:17.760 I mean, this country's wide open.

00:53:19.260 And all of our infrastructure,

00:53:21.460 our energy infrastructure,

00:53:22.740 our food, our water,

00:53:24.840 all of it's unguarded.

00:53:26.180 And the only way to protect ourselves

00:53:27.780 from the inevitable blowback,

00:53:29.260 the Shia terrorism

00:53:30.080 that we're going to get, of course,

00:53:31.760 after killing the Ayatollah,

00:53:32.840 is going to be to turn this

00:53:34.300 into a surveillance state even more than it is yeah and and of course also on top of that coming

00:53:40.060 off of the biden years where we don't even know who's who's here we have no like i mean it's just

00:53:46.860 the the mix of these policies like the mix of the of having forever wars and open borders

00:53:53.680 is just got to be the the and a welfare state yeah and i mean like just throw everything in

00:53:58.840 and a drug war on top of that too and a drug war so that drugs are illegal there's a black market

00:54:03.640 The gangs want to smuggle the drugs and like every single policy on top of it just makes this situation like so much worse.

00:54:11.400 But, yeah, you know, when that when the Osama bin Laden's letter to America went viral on TikTok before it was many, many, many years later.

00:54:19.960 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

00:54:20.640 My aborted to bring it to the country.

00:54:22.480 Yes. To be clear, this is written in 2002.

00:54:24.900 It was like a couple of years ago when it went super viral on TikTok and all the young leftists were like sharing it.

00:54:30.500 and they were going like oh my god look at this turns out now of course they're leftists so

00:54:34.580 it always they always think too collectively right and so i saw a bunch of people going

00:54:39.500 turns out he was right or he was the good guy and you're like no no no that is not the takeaway

00:54:45.800 from this like you know there was that uh that one time the guy uh hasan piker who's like a left

00:54:52.560 uh lefty like a streamer and he had said that america deserved 9-11 and that was like what

00:54:59.000 got him in a lot of trouble for it and it's like but no stop speaking like a leftist we're not

00:55:03.840 we're not collectively we're individuals and the individuals who had nothing to do with these

00:55:08.600 policies did not have it coming breakfast at windows in the world you get killed yeah you

00:55:12.740 deserve it no you don't do the whole but now what osama bin laden said i don't think this was in the

00:55:17.420 letter to america i think it was in it might have been it was either that or in his declaration of

00:55:21.120 war he had two declarations of war against america also but what he said is that civilians are fair

00:55:27.080 game because you vote for you know you vote the bill clinton's and the george bush's in who slaughter

00:55:33.700 all of our children and so you're fair game now that's the logic of osama ben laden the psychopathic

00:55:40.020 uh you know terrorist and that's and the whole point of why we're against all this shit is

00:55:45.140 because we reject that we don't agree with that that's not and you know who else used that same

00:55:49.180 logic every goddamn zionist who said they elected hamas in gaza and by the way they don't even have

00:55:55.440 regular elections in gaza they had one election 20 years ago where hamas won with pluralities

00:56:01.620 but that was enough for them to say to kill their kids yeah conscience and so so no the whole point

00:56:08.260 is that no it does you don't have the right to take vengeance on innocent people that is the

00:56:14.440 standard of civilization i have said that you know pretty consistently for the past couple of years

00:56:20.720 and I thought that was like

00:56:22.980 just a baseline understanding

00:56:24.120 that everyone in America knew and believed.

00:56:26.440 I thought that was the whole point of America.

00:56:27.960 That's what civilization is.

00:56:29.240 You can't punish the innocent.

00:56:30.480 Right.

00:56:31.540 And that turns out to be incredibly anti-Semitic.

00:56:35.720 I didn't know that.

00:56:37.960 By the way, I've never, up until recently,

00:56:40.380 all the Jews I knew were 100% on board with that.

00:56:43.700 I mean, I can just like hear a rabbi going,

00:56:46.100 you can't kill the innocent.

00:56:47.600 Amen.

00:56:48.440 Brother?

00:56:49.320 Except in this one card out.

00:56:50.740 But now it's like all of a sudden these people, you know, I don't know.

00:56:55.180 I don't think it's about any specific group.

00:56:57.220 In fact, by definition, it's not.

00:56:58.600 It's a human standard to which we should all be held and do our best to hold others.

00:57:02.920 You can't kill the innocent.

00:57:03.780 Yeah, and also it's not, you know, it's not about one specific group because—

00:57:08.660 Well, by definition, it's not about one specific group.

00:57:10.720 It's about all humans.

00:57:11.980 It's also just not, you know, and this is the problem where when people try to make it about the Jews,

00:57:17.140 and it's so weird the dynamic because you i watch you you literally bend over backward to say that

00:57:24.480 it's not about the jews as much as possible because it's not to the point and as as someone

00:57:29.040 who's like a jewish fan of yours i find myself going like you could stop making that but like

00:57:34.380 you've said it enough you know what i mean but you do every opportunity you go i don't believe

00:57:37.940 it's not because i'm afraid of jews at all no you're not afraid of anybody it's because i think

00:57:43.460 it's the standard that we have to uphold well also everyone is insisting that that's what you're

00:57:48.000 really saying and so you want to go no i'm not saying i just that's why i've been defending

00:57:52.200 muslims it's not because i'm muslim or taking money from qatar too late now we read their

00:57:57.580 economy um but it's because i think these are human rights bestowed by god and they apply to

00:58:04.640 every person because they're inherent in every person because every person is created in the

00:58:08.160 image of god that's the point i'm trying to yeah and i i completely agree with you i also think

00:58:12.700 it's just frankly inaccurate i mean it's not look i know i saw one poll uh today that said 60 percent

00:58:19.880 of american jews support uh the war in iran which hey that's a lot higher than the the general

00:58:25.660 population but that means 40 percent of them don't you know what i mean and so like that's a huge

00:58:31.000 huge percentage of them i think a third of jews in new york voted for this mom donnie guy now i'm

00:58:36.320 annoyed with them for other reasons because he's a crazy socialist but they're clearly not on board

00:58:41.140 with the Israel lobby's plan here.

00:58:43.380 And then, of course, as you've done a better job of exposing than anyone I've ever seen,

00:58:48.380 there is a lot of like Ted Cruz's and Mike Huckabee's out there who, as you I think correctly

00:58:53.880 pointed out, are different animals, right?

00:58:55.640 Like Ted Cruz is a cynical lying politician.

00:58:58.400 Mike Huckabee is like a true believer of sorts.

00:59:00.580 I'm not sure which is worse.

00:59:02.000 They're both pretty rough and both totally humiliated themselves when you interviewed

00:59:07.100 them.

00:59:08.240 But there's also, like, the point is that the Israel lobby encompasses a lot of non-Jews, and then there's a lot of Jews.

00:59:16.740 There's the Max Blumenthal's and Norman Finkelstein's and Glenn Greenwald's.

00:59:22.280 So it's just, to just say it's like this group, nah, you're missing the point entirely.

00:59:26.940 Well, I would say that the advocates for the war are primarily responsible for that.

00:59:31.220 And speaking of blowback, speaking of blowback, I mean, it's hardly my job to, like, defend Jewish Americans, but I want to defend all Americans.

00:59:38.740 And I definitely want to defend the principle that we should be judged on our own terms, not by people who look like us or we're related to.

00:59:46.080 Like, I think that's the most important thing.

00:59:48.160 But, I mean, I do think you often go, oh, anti-Semitism is on the rise.

00:59:53.420 I agree with that.

00:59:54.680 Yeah.

00:59:55.380 And I wish it wasn't true.

00:59:56.660 But that is absolutely real.

00:59:59.060 And I know that I'm blamed for it.

01:00:01.220 OK, but I think I think you're I think you're one of the I'm really I know people will people will mock me for saying this, but I genuinely think it's true.

01:00:11.140 I think you are one of the leading fighters against anti-Semitism in the country.

01:00:17.360 I think so. And I think I think I do what I can to be that as well.

01:00:21.700 I think if you really want to see a decrease in Jew hatred, then I think maybe it would be good to have Jewish people saying, hey, I am totally against this.

01:00:32.120 I am not for this.

01:00:33.160 But also it is, and I'm not defending collectivism of any stripe, but it is very predictable and it is just human nature.

01:00:41.700 You know, if you have.

01:00:43.000 It's that's why it's so scary.

01:00:45.020 Yes, it is human nature.

01:00:46.160 That's exactly right.

01:00:46.960 If you, if they're, let's say you just have a neighborhood, okay, there's like a neighborhood, all things being equal or whatever, and a bunch of black teenagers or black young men are going around and mugging and beating up people.

01:01:02.040 Do you think anti-black racism is going to go up, go down, or stay the same?

01:01:08.320 Crime causes racism.

01:01:09.000 This is, right.

01:01:09.940 I've said that for years.

01:01:10.700 Shut up!

01:01:11.460 Yeah. Now, is it fair to the black guy who didn't mug or beat up anyone that there's? No, it's not fair to him. It's also a predictable and frankly, at times, an understandable response from someone who was the victim of getting mugged and beat up.

01:01:27.820 And so if you're, you know, if you're a black person who's like in the public eye, it might be reasonable at that point to go, hey, guys, we got to stop mugging people and beating them up.

01:01:38.800 Otherwise, they're going to hate us.

01:01:40.860 And the way I always looked at it, this always just came very natural to me.

01:01:45.460 Like this was so obvious.

01:01:47.020 I'm Jewish.

01:01:48.460 I love Jewish people.

01:01:50.400 I love Jewish culture.

01:01:51.700 It's who I am.

01:01:53.600 It's a big part of me.

01:01:54.660 And I think some of the best things about me I got from Jewish culture, valuing intellectual curiosity and family and hard work and humor and a lot of things that really define who I am are very much a part of Jewish culture.

01:02:09.200 Total refusal to go along with whatever else is saying.

01:02:12.020 Yeah, for sure.

01:02:12.520 For sure.

01:02:13.100 Also just whining about things, complaining, fetching.

01:02:16.720 You know, this is all part of me.

01:02:18.500 It's what I do for a living.

01:02:19.600 It turned it into a pretty nice career.

01:02:20.800 but but that being said it's like I just look at it I go okay so we're all the

01:02:27.820 stories I've heard from my family in our history are how we were brutally

01:02:31.360 oppressed here and killed here and kicked out of here and relocated here

01:02:35.560 and then we came to America now I have grown up in the United States of America

01:02:40.780 this is where my kids live it's where they're gonna grow up as you say all

01:02:43.900 the time that's the only thing that matters to me is that my kids have the

01:02:46.420 best life I can give them literally the only thing that matters to me everything

01:02:49.660 as a very distant second from that.

01:02:52.620 And I go, okay, so we're 2% of the population in America.

01:02:57.560 We are, by all objective standards, thriving.

01:03:01.260 We're doing great.

01:03:02.360 Jews are not an oppressed minority in America.

01:03:04.620 We're doing better than the average American

01:03:07.000 is doing, substantially.

01:03:09.100 And I've never once, I mean, I don't know,

01:03:13.980 I've had people on Twitter say things to me

01:03:16.140 or something like that, but there's never once

01:03:17.500 been an obstacle put in my way because I was Jewish. I never couldn't go to this school or

01:03:22.740 couldn't get this job or couldn't do anything like that. And I've had a really great life here.

01:03:28.140 In fact, probably the most anti-Semitism I've ever dealt with is from the pro-Israel people

01:03:35.440 who call me like a capo every day because I don't support another reckless war.

01:03:42.440 Capos were the Jewish collaborators with the Nazis.

01:03:45.360 Like in the ghettos.

01:03:46.140 Yeah, yeah.

01:03:46.540 Right.

01:03:47.220 So it was a really nasty thing to call somebody.

01:03:50.600 But whatever.

01:03:51.480 That's the game we're in.

01:03:52.700 So my perspective is like, OK, so you're telling me the whole world treated us like crap.

01:03:58.260 We've come here to America where we've been just very successful and treated very well.

01:04:05.620 My default position is to love the country for that.

01:04:08.840 Like, oh, well, then we should be really grateful to this country.

01:04:11.740 That should be the attitude.

01:04:12.780 not going around lecturing people about whether they've been to the museum about our suffering

01:04:17.360 from decades ago. Like, what is that? It just seems like such a, and look again, I'm not a lot

01:04:22.820 of the critics of Israel are left-wingers. I'm not coming at this from a left-wing perspective.

01:04:27.640 I'm a crotchety old right-winger. Like I don't agree with that. I'm sitting here and saying,

01:04:31.920 if we, if any self-respecting conservative or self-respecting right-winger saw any other

01:04:37.840 minority group complaining about their mistreatment in another continent in another country in another

01:04:44.060 century you'd go hey shut up get over it pull yourself up by your bootstraps that's like what

01:04:51.040 i'm saying and then by the way with jews like oh you already did you pulled yourself up by your

01:04:54.940 bootstraps so like what are we even talking about here why and and i don't think i i don't think

01:05:00.880 like obsessing over past trauma is always the correct answer and certainly not insisting that

01:05:09.280 everybody else suffer over or um obsess over your past trauma so i just always it was always very

01:05:17.700 natural to me that like i'm on team america i'm rooting for this country to succeed the country

01:05:22.620 that fought the nazis yeah by the way yeah lost a lot of americans fighting the nazis why are you

01:05:27.840 lecturing me about the nazis yeah my country fought them and and to almost anybody like anybody at fox

01:05:34.620 news now again maybe i talk about like mark levin and fox news and these guys like too much like

01:05:39.240 they really are irrelevant but i guess it's just that i'm stuck in the old you know i'm the age i

01:05:44.060 am and so to me it's still like hey you're this is fox but any one of them would completely agree

01:05:51.380 with me on this if we were talking about any other group of people you know if we were talking about

01:05:55.200 any other group of people talking about victimhood or any of that you know if you were if they were

01:06:00.260 um if there was some black you know uh guy talking about how racist this country is because of

01:06:06.720 slavery they would have made your exact point they'd go we fought a war to end slavery hundreds

01:06:11.900 of thousands of us died fight you know what i mean like they would they would right away even

01:06:15.780 here so back off yeah right right yeah no i i couldn't agree more and and underneath all of

01:06:22.960 this, and the reason that I really do worry that the country is going to become like openly

01:06:27.360 tribal, and that leads to violence every time, is that a lot of the same people who are upset

01:06:34.020 about the rise in anti-Semitism, which again, I think is real, I mean, I can tell it's real,

01:06:38.960 and I don't like it either, are the ones who abetted all the anti-white hate for so long,

01:06:44.760 which is still not being addressed. The Trump administration sued Harvard over its anti-Jewish

01:06:49.260 discrimination which is like it's deranged what a slap in the face to white people well it's

01:06:54.980 unbelievable oh my god and um and of course the anti-white hate is still totally embedded at every

01:06:59.980 level of our government and in business and most famously in schools so that's like an attempt to

01:07:05.800 hurt people on the basis of their race and no one has said anything about it my point is these are

01:07:11.100 either universal principles they apply to every human being endowed with human rights by the

01:07:15.880 creator or they're just preferences it's just your tribe against mine and then i'm allowed to

01:07:20.300 fight your tribe for the benefit of my tribe like and it just devolves into rwanda so like

01:07:24.660 i think we could diffuse a lot of this if like the head of the adl would be like i'm every bit

01:07:31.660 as opposed to anti-white hate as i am to anti-jewish hate we could all just agree that it's

01:07:35.980 all wrong then we decelerate but until then how can i take you seriously yeah and it's and i think

01:07:42.660 along with that is we just we have to stop fighting wars on behalf of israel and we have

01:07:49.780 to have some type of separation i mean i'm not saying that like i'm not saying we we should be

01:07:55.640 enemies with israel or that we should go to war with israel or anything like that but the it just

01:08:02.440 the relationship the special relationship between the u.s and israel is so freaking weird and now

01:08:11.380 in this new media environment it's been exposed i don't think you can put that toothpaste back

01:08:16.440 it is something that i think a lot of people were kind of happy to look the other way about

01:08:24.520 for years yeah you came on my show you came to maine a couple years ago to do something on

01:08:29.640 ukraine and greenwald too who i love and i've known a long time and both of you like had a

01:08:34.720 moment where you're like yeah and israel's probably i'm like uh i agree but like i don't

01:08:39.260 want to you know there's i just want to pretend this isn't happening it's not worth it i don't

01:08:43.880 want to be denounced by chabad or whatever i just don't want to have the fight well you let me or

01:08:47.760 glenn greenwald in your door and that will not be happening i was yes i get it no i was part of that

01:08:53.600 like it's it's just not worth it well look even the great in my opinion the greatest living american

01:09:00.420 hero ron paul used even he would kind of like try to say it in a gentle way like he would go well

01:09:06.700 let's let them fight their own fights and we'll just kind of be over here being non-interventionist

01:09:11.780 because of course on one hand it's like look there's a lot of things first of all in I don't

01:09:17.540 know if people who are listening to this show can appreciate this but you know this much better than

01:09:23.220 I do but there was a time you know Donald Trump will kind of say this out loud he'll say that you

01:09:28.560 know AIPAC used to totally control Congress and now they don't control them anymore like he'll

01:09:32.940 just say it which is so wild they give me hundreds of millions of dollars and i do whatever they want

01:09:38.100 it's like all right dude you're just saying that out loud i thought that was like an anti-semitic

01:09:42.140 conspiracy theory not just something the president said it in the kinesis of all places god but the

01:09:47.760 thing is right in the old order before there were podcasts like this and look if you think about like

01:09:54.340 i used to always point to um the example because i thought it was so interesting about where the

01:09:58.020 technology where social media was is when bill o'reilly was the number one show at fox news the

01:10:03.740 number one show in cable news and at the 8 p.m hour you were also the number one show at fox

01:10:08.560 news the number one show in cable news at the 8 p.m hour when they fired bill o'reilly bill o'reilly

01:10:13.200 went from being like one of the biggest voices in the national conversation to being like relegated

01:10:19.220 over to the sidelines who's like you know he still has a show somewhere but he's not like

01:10:23.440 never really moving the needle at all you got bigger than you were there and and part of that

01:10:28.960 was who you were who your audience was technology but a big part a big part of it was that you had

01:10:33.240 you had another platform yeah i would i would i would be fly fishing full-time right for the

01:10:37.600 technology which so maybe in that sense maybe the technology ruined your life you could have just

01:10:41.520 had a happy life uh they pulled you back in um but i don't know that people appreciate how much

01:10:47.500 in the old order in the old days when built were getting fired took you out of the conversation

01:10:51.940 with Bill O'Reilly days or whatever before that,

01:10:54.820 getting the Israel lobby on your back would ruin you.

01:10:58.240 It would absolutely ruin you.

01:10:59.560 It was the one thing you couldn't do.

01:11:00.220 And it didn't matter who you are.

01:11:01.720 You could absolutely sleep with the makeup artist.

01:11:03.720 You could not fight with the ADL.

01:11:05.640 I mean, that was just it.

01:11:06.980 That was just it.

01:11:07.620 I mean, and there is so much, you know, I mean,

01:11:09.600 whether it's the ADL or the Southern Poverty Law Center

01:11:12.740 or AIPAC or, you know, whatever,

01:11:15.420 the American Enterprise Institute or National Review.

01:11:18.860 I mean, the Israel lobby is like this huge, powerful thing.

01:11:22.840 And back then, I mean, it didn't matter.

01:11:25.920 If you were Pat Buchanan, you'd be like, dude, I'm Pat Buchanan.

01:11:29.160 I've been in four White Houses.

01:11:30.800 I won the New Hampshire primary.

01:11:31.700 I won the New Hampshire primary.

01:11:32.760 I've been in four different presidential, three or four different presidential administrations,

01:11:36.920 a New York Times bestseller, a fixture in America.

01:11:40.160 I mean, he hosted Crossfire when Crossfire first started.

01:11:43.500 You know, it doesn't matter.

01:11:45.100 They could take you out.

01:11:45.900 They could take Ron Paul.

01:11:46.700 They could take all of it.

01:11:47.300 And so there was for many years, almost I feel like a leftover residue of like, you just don't want this fight because, man, is this going to get ugly and you're going to be smeared as every vicious name in the book.

01:12:01.600 But at a certain point, it was like, oh, well, you know, you kind of can talk about these things now.

01:12:06.800 And in fact, the people who do talk about them are being rewarded by their viewers because it's refreshing that someone's talking about the thing you weren't allowed to talk about.

01:12:15.080 But now that that has been exposed and the toothpaste can't be put back in the tube

01:12:19.200 It's too. It's just too much you cannot have it

01:12:22.900 I know you talk about this a lot when you look at examples like and these examples are are countless

01:12:27.880 You look at Ted Cruz saying to your face as he said in other places that the reason he ran for Senate was to be

01:12:35.840 Israel's number one defender you got Tammy Bruce saying America's the second best country to Israel

01:12:43.480 kind of tongue-in-cheek still a really weird thing for an official from the administration to say

01:12:49.140 you got donald trump saying that sheldon and and now miriam adelson give him hundreds of millions

01:12:56.740 of dollars and all they want they come in every day asking for stuff on behalf of a foreign country

01:13:01.460 and he gives it to which they love more than america yes well sheldon uh was on tape have

01:13:08.200 Have you seen this?

01:13:08.780 Yes.

01:13:09.000 He was on tape.

01:13:09.480 He said his greatest regret in life is that he wore the U.S. military uniform rather than the IDF uniform.

01:13:18.300 Now, I'm sorry, that is intolerable from any just sane perspective.

01:13:24.480 This has nothing to do with hating Jews or even hating any other country.

01:13:27.860 If people were talking like this about Norway, we'd be like, yo, what are you doing?

01:13:31.920 This isn't Norway.

01:13:32.940 This is America.

01:13:34.080 I agree.

01:13:34.280 And like there's.

01:13:34.960 Move to Norway.

01:13:35.760 Yeah.

01:13:36.140 Like, fine.

01:13:36.800 Go ahead.

01:13:37.380 But no, you can't.

01:13:38.200 And then to have people like Mike Huckabee saying that God promised Lebanon and Saudi

01:13:46.400 Arabia to Netanyahu, like, I'm sorry, but there's just no, this is simply not how public

01:13:54.740 policymaker, I guess not a policymaker, but a politician, an ambassador to this country,

01:14:01.120 you can't be talking this way.

01:14:02.720 This is insane.

01:14:03.500 Like, we don't let anybody just dictate their policy off, God told me to do this, and then a very weird, God told me something on behalf of a foreign country.

01:14:13.220 So I think we're at a point where if – and this is kind of my rejoinder to a lot of those people who call me and you anti-Semite.

01:14:22.020 I guess I'm a self-hating Jew and you're an anti-Semite.

01:14:24.180 Because listen man, there is a rise of Jew hatred and if you really do care about that

01:14:29.360 The only way to combat that is that we got to end this

01:14:33.640 You know like the same way we needed a separation of church and state so we don't fight religious wars anymore

01:14:38.340 We need a separation of the Israel Lobby and the United States of America. I think it's I think it's tough

01:14:43.620 I think it's tough as a non-israel hater

01:14:47.580 I don't hate anyone. I'm not gonna allow myself to hate anyone period

01:14:50.540 but I'm just

01:14:53.040 being as honest as I can be

01:14:54.740 we're very meshed, more than people

01:14:56.980 understand, representatives

01:14:58.960 official and non-official of the Israeli government

01:15:01.160 throughout the US government at every

01:15:03.000 single level, state and federal, there's that

01:15:05.120 in our institutions, that would include the Pentagon

01:15:06.980 and CIA are biggest and most important

01:15:08.640 and then there's the question of

01:15:10.880 what does that mean for Israel

01:15:13.140 do they just allow the United States to be

01:15:15.160 like

01:15:15.380 you're just like

01:15:18.360 whatever, France now, or Spain

01:15:20.480 We're going to treat you like, you know, an ally, but not a sibling.

01:15:25.400 I think that we get punished for that.

01:15:28.260 People are afraid of Israel.

01:15:29.720 That's the difference between Israel and Spain.

01:15:32.480 Everyone loves Spain.

01:15:33.380 It's great.

01:15:34.000 The Spanish, we can have bases there.

01:15:35.600 You can put missiles there.

01:15:36.440 It's all great.

01:15:37.620 But no one thinks if you pull back aid from Spain, they're going to hurt you.

01:15:41.800 But everyone is afraid of being physically hurt by Israel.

01:15:44.460 Maybe they're overstating it.

01:15:45.280 Maybe they're all anti-Semitic and paranoid.

01:15:47.260 I don't know.

01:15:47.820 i can just tell you from living in dc there is a fear of them real fear yeah and anyone who says

01:15:53.960 this country is freaking lying no it's like saying there's there's a fear of the intelligence

01:15:58.220 agencies like that's a fact it's a fact i think we're pretty out in the open about that now yeah

01:16:03.100 well that's right that's right and it's um you know so if if that's the case that it's almost

01:16:09.200 like there's our leaders are just too afraid to do something well of course they're afraid

01:16:15.240 and i don't know the genesis of that fear like maybe again maybe they're all just reading the

01:16:21.640 protocols the elder design and maybe they're all anti-semites and they're overstating the

01:16:25.020 influence of jews or whatever i mean that's totally people do make crazy calculations

01:16:29.100 maybe there really is a physical threat but it's it's not arguable that u.s policymakers at every

01:16:36.660 level are afraid this is not all voluntary at all yeah well it's it's um there's something about

01:16:43.420 like the you know i i like megan kelly i think she was the one who said this i don't know if she

01:16:49.680 coined the term but she was the first one i heard say it but she i think it was with you where she

01:16:54.060 said the uh the israel firsters and that was how she described i was like oh that's a good that's

01:16:58.440 a really good term for them because you know the the thing is that you know john meersheimer and

01:17:02.940 stephen walt like they call it the israel lobby but then when you say that a lot of people just

01:17:07.100 think you're talking about apac but they're not just talking about apac they're talking about

01:17:10.600 this whole different, all these different

01:17:12.460 organizations and individuals. The Heritage Foundation

01:17:14.620 and Washington Post and everybody.

01:17:16.380 Washington Institute for Near East Policy

01:17:18.660 and all of these

01:17:20.120 organizations and then all these individuals

01:17:22.100 who clearly are here to

01:17:24.460 that is their number one issue. And

01:17:26.160 the thing I almost resent most about them is

01:17:28.400 like, just admit that.

01:17:30.440 Just admit that this is what you care about more than anything

01:17:32.500 else, Barry Weiss. Clearly you do,

01:17:34.900 right? I agree.

01:17:36.400 Because then, in effect, you are like a

01:17:38.480 foreign spy. You're kind of

01:17:40.480 like an agent for a different government. And the point is that, you know, because people will try

01:17:45.120 to argue the technicalities of this, but the point is that all of the whole global war on terrorism

01:17:50.040 was all a bunch of Israel firsters who pushed the administration into that at every level.

01:17:54.660 You know, this is, by the way, you'll, you'll like this just because some people don't get this,

01:17:58.040 but you'll, so David Wormser, who, um, you know, worked for Dick Cheney and was, he's the author

01:18:04.020 of the Clean Break, uh, memo. So he, so I talk about this all the time, a lot of different

01:18:08.480 podcasts on yours on Rogan's I brought up the clean break and how that's what this whole real

01:18:12.280 strategy is it's what the clean break morphed into is essentially and you could look at this

01:18:16.240 David Wormser and Richard Pearl and Douglas Fife wrote the clean break memo to Benjamin Netanyahu

01:18:22.180 in 1996 was first became prime minister for his first term and he had written a book which is

01:18:27.340 worth reading called fighting terrorism very easy read by the way it's a little book that Benjamin

01:18:31.920 Netanyahu had written the year before and essentially the break was from Oslo was from

01:18:37.180 the peace process the break was from Yitzhak Rabin who had now been murdered by a Benjamin

01:18:41.420 Netanyahu fan after Benjamin Netanyahu really pushed to I mean that's a whole other can of worms

01:18:48.920 by the way but I know like if Yitzhak Rabin's wife I believe still blames Benjamin Netanyahu

01:18:53.560 for his death. Many in Israel do yeah and now there's a lobbying campaign to get the murderer

01:18:57.920 out of prison who killed him. So I mean they were he was given anti-Rabin like uh marches and they

01:19:03.540 holding coffins before he died like they were like implying like someone should

01:19:07.140 kill this guy because he had said not that he was really ever gonna do this

01:19:10.440 but he had said we got to find a two-state solution we got to give the

01:19:13.560 Palestinians their own state and we'll start working toward that now the clean

01:19:16.620 break was the neoconservatives brilliant idea the Israel firsters here that well

01:19:20.640 no no see you got this all wrong you think you need to make peace with the

01:19:24.900 Palestinians because that's the only way that you'll have you'll normalize

01:19:28.200 relations with the broader Arab world but no no no we just got to go topple

01:19:32.460 the broader Arab world and overthrow all those

01:19:34.600 governments and then you never have to make

01:19:36.640 peace with the Palestinians okay so

01:19:38.620 it's essentially a blueprint

01:19:40.740 for greater Israel and this

01:19:42.720 was their whole strategy pre 9-11

01:19:44.260 regional hegemony now it's not just about

01:19:46.340 controlling the West Bank it's about controlling

01:19:48.620 the Middle East that's right that's right

01:19:50.560 and so now

01:19:52.540 because we live in this crazy world we live

01:19:54.600 in now David Wormser

01:19:56.400 did a podcast where he responded

01:19:58.720 to me now

01:20:00.280 Now, from my perspective, I'm little old me, some stand-up comedian who just talks about all this stuff.

01:20:07.980 This is David Worms.

01:20:09.020 This is the guy who's the author of The Clean Break Memo.

01:20:11.540 But to the new internet world, he has like 300 followers on Twitter.

01:20:16.100 Nobody saw this.

01:20:17.160 Nobody knows about it.

01:20:18.240 But so David Worms, and he's there to debunk my interpretation of The Clean Break Memo.

01:20:24.240 This is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.

01:20:25.580 And so the host brings him on to be like, oh, this Dave Smith guy's out here saying that all these wars were about Israel and blah, blah, blah. And this is ridiculous, right? So why don't you just tell them that this is all not true? And his response was he just goes into like a monologue about how Israel is the cradle of civilization and that all of Western civilization is downstream from Israel and that we always must protect.

01:20:51.940 So anyway, in the attempt to prove me wrong, he just totally exposes that, like, yeah, this is the mentality that all of these guys have.

01:20:59.420 So if Mike Huckabee supports a war for Israel, in his mind, that's not selling out your country for another country.

01:21:09.060 This is God's plan.

01:21:10.720 You know what I mean?

01:21:11.420 So they're all so – it's like the fish doesn't know he's in water.

01:21:16.240 Like they don't even realize they're the Israel lobby.

01:21:18.240 They go, what are you talking about?

01:21:19.260 This is what Jeff Sachs said to me.

01:21:22.300 Jeff Sachs, who's off an attack.

01:21:23.560 Jeff Sachs is really smart.

01:21:24.820 And I think Jeff Sachs is a decent guy.

01:21:26.580 And we don't agree on everything.

01:21:27.720 But he's an honest guy.

01:21:29.880 He just says, so I say to him, you've been watching this all these years.

01:21:33.100 What do you think this is about?

01:21:34.280 Why does this tiny country have so much control over our giant continent-sized country?

01:21:37.960 And he said, well, you know, a lot of contributions.

01:21:41.700 There are threats.

01:21:42.580 There are questions about the Kennedy assassination.

01:21:44.300 They're willing to use force in assassinations to get what they want.

01:21:47.440 He goes, but I don't think that explains it.

01:21:49.640 I don't think either one of those bribery or threats,

01:21:51.580 a carrot or stick,

01:21:52.180 I don't think that actually is the whole picture.

01:21:54.540 There's a spell of some kind.

01:21:57.080 There's like a supernatural quality to this.

01:21:59.300 Good people, like I don't think Mike Huckabee

01:22:01.680 is like in favor of genocide.

01:22:03.140 I just don't think that.

01:22:04.580 Pretty nice guy, very nice guy actually.

01:22:06.720 But he believes with this fervor

01:22:08.800 that suggests that he's not thinking clearly.

01:22:10.680 Like there's another quality here.

01:22:14.240 And do you know what I'm talking about?

01:22:16.180 Yeah, no, 100%.

01:22:16.980 And I think Jeff Sachs is a pretty secular guy, by the way.

01:22:19.320 I don't know, but I don't...

01:22:20.540 Jeff's not a religious extremist, that I can say that.

01:22:22.880 For sure.

01:22:23.140 Right, okay.

01:22:23.960 Yeah, but everyone recognizes...

01:22:26.380 Like I told you last time, there's no such thing as atheists.

01:22:28.420 They think they are atheists, but no one really is.

01:22:31.080 But you were an atheist.

01:22:31.940 No, but I wasn't.

01:22:32.900 But I thought I was.

01:22:34.060 But you never really are.

01:22:35.500 Why did you think you were?

01:22:37.280 Well, because I would just say, I don't really believe in any of that, and I don't think that that's real.

01:22:40.900 But of course, as I told you the story last time I was here,

01:22:43.760 then when my daughter's born and i'm worried about her life i immediately find and it's like

01:22:47.660 i always knew i always that was always in there on some level so i remember one time here in this

01:22:52.760 debate and i wish i could remember who it was but it was like a theist atheist debate and um it

01:22:58.260 might have been christopher hitchens or something like oh maybe not but it was one of those like

01:23:02.080 does god exist debates and so the the guy arguing that god does exist said something about how there

01:23:09.900 are spiritual forces in the world and blah blah blah and they're all or there are evil spirits

01:23:13.880 he said there are evil spirits and then the atheist guy goes uh he goes look like we all know

01:23:21.160 that there is depression and there's this and there's this we all know that there's dark forces

01:23:24.580 in the world but you don't need a supernatural explanation i'm like did you just say dark forces

01:23:29.180 like dark forces i mean what is that you're saying the same thing in a different language man like

01:23:35.440 it's just like there's actually no gap here between anyway um but so yeah i do think there's

01:23:40.740 a spiritual component to all of this it feels that way because i don't want to be the kind of

01:23:46.380 person who imputes the worst motives to my opponents okay but i am because most people are

01:23:51.700 like why is this person doing something that's insane doesn't make sense it's irrational

01:23:55.840 getting paid like that's always the first explanation that people come to and i have

01:24:00.160 myself thought that but then if you know someone really well i don't i'm not intimate with huckabee

01:24:06.280 but i've known him for so many 30 years more than it's like i don't think huckabee is you know he's

01:24:12.280 into money i get it but i don't think he's like totally motivated by greed i just don't believe

01:24:17.680 that no i think there's well look i think and i don't think he's evil but he's defending evil

01:24:22.160 so what is that i think a few things can be true at the same time right so it could it can be that

01:24:28.080 you're under a spell that there's a spiritual aspect to it and then it can also be that there's

01:24:33.060 soft incentives for you to continue being under that spell right and so the you know the history

01:24:39.720 of of jewish influence israeli influence i mean look obviously much of this goes back to the fact

01:24:50.860 that um jews dominated finance uh for many years and part of this was because christians weren't

01:24:56.480 allowed to lend money and credit, right? But there is now, there is a form obviously of like

01:25:02.940 abusive usury, right? There are loan sharks out there. There are, some of them are even credit

01:25:08.880 card companies that will charge you like 30% interest or 29.9, whatever they're allowed to

01:25:14.280 do on, you know, which is like kind of a crazy interest rate. And they, they kind of prey on

01:25:18.240 desperate people. Now they're not necessarily like even the loan shark or the credit card companies,

01:25:22.800 They're just kind of benefiting off your desperation because it's not like if the credit card company wasn't there

01:25:27.840 It's not like oh now everything's okay the America the reason they're putting necessities on the credit card to begin with is because other conditions have

01:25:34.560 you know led them to this desperate place totally but

01:25:38.560 But the problem so then you had for much of Christendom, right?

01:25:41.780 It's completely bound to lend money at any interest which is that you know

01:25:46.460 I do not think is abusive to have any interest rate on your money because that's actually a very necessary part of an economy

01:25:52.280 There are people who have a very good idea but don't have any capital.

01:25:56.800 And then there's people sitting with capital, and they go, well, look, I can't just give this to you because if you lose it, then I just lose my money.

01:26:04.360 And if you pay me back, all I've gotten is that I get my money later rather than having it right now.

01:26:09.920 So if you have my money, then I can't use it for whatever thing I want to build.

01:26:13.560 So there's a cost to me to lending you my money.

01:26:15.400 However, if I go, hey, I'll lend this to you, but you pay me back a little bit of interest, this actually really facilitates economic growth because – or just good businesses being created because like, oh, yeah, the guy with a good idea but with no capital now can – so anyway, so Jewish bankers ended up kind of filling this void.

01:26:33.680 And then you had very powerful Jewish groups who became very, very wealthy in banking and yada, yada.

01:26:38.120 A lot of things later, banking got very, very corrupt.

01:26:40.280 But again, it's important to keep in mind this wasn't most Jews.

01:26:43.640 most Jews were living in poverty. This was, but like the Balfour Declaration is written to

01:26:48.800 the Rothschilds, right? Like it's not, the creation of Israel was at least part,

01:26:54.220 they had international finance backing them. And so that's also true in America that much of the

01:27:00.360 largest banking institutions had some Jewish influence. It's also the case that after the

01:27:07.560 creation of the state of Israel there, you have the Mossad, right? Or you have Israeli intelligence

01:27:13.840 and now Jews are smart and not like that much smarter than everybody else, but they're a pretty

01:27:19.560 smart group. And then the Mossad had an advantage over every other intelligence organization that

01:27:27.460 would really be a dream for any intelligence organization. But the Mossad had a diaspora

01:27:32.940 of people all spread out in the world that were Jewish, right? And also there was this wide

01:27:39.940 cultural belief amongst Jews that the Holocaust is what gave birth to the state of Israel and

01:27:46.420 that the state of Israel is the guarantor of another Holocaust not happening. And so you

01:27:51.060 could very, like imagine the CIA had that. Imagine you just had little Americans in every single

01:27:56.080 country, you know, little groups of Americans, maybe not every single country, but you had

01:27:59.300 pockets of them in lots of different places. And they really passionately believed that the

01:28:03.060 existence of the United States of America was the most important thing in the world.

01:28:06.080 What an advantage for them. Go around. Hey, find any American somewhere. You want to serve your

01:28:10.160 country? You want to do that? And so I think between finance, between the Mossad, and then

01:28:19.040 when the neoconservatives, who really were not old money when they first came into it, right?

01:28:26.320 Like if you know the first generation of neoconservatives, they were having their debates at City College, not at Harvard.

01:28:32.520 You know what I mean?

01:28:32.880 Literally, City College.

01:28:33.980 Yes, these were middle class guys.

01:28:37.100 Working class.

01:28:37.680 They weren't the Rockefeller guys or the Morgan guys.

01:28:42.060 They weren't at the Council on Foreign Relations.

01:28:43.700 But what they did was they went and they made their relationships with the military industrial complex themselves.

01:28:49.380 And a lot of this was, you know, the problem is that you create this empire.

01:28:54.620 You create this military-industrial complex, this big government scheme, and then it's right for someone to take it over.

01:29:00.660 And if you go look at, like, every last one of those Bill Kristol think tanks.

01:29:07.120 Bill Kristol needs to have 16 think tanks.

01:29:09.460 He doesn't have a thought in his head, but he's got all of it.

01:29:12.140 He couldn't even write a New York Times column.

01:29:13.600 Like, his dad was smart for all his problems.

01:29:16.140 Bill Kristol is not smart.

01:29:16.480 Bill Kristol was never smart.

01:29:17.660 He was revered as this smart guy.

01:29:19.100 Never said anything smart.

01:29:20.080 Dan Quill's brain.

01:29:20.720 Yeah, literally.

01:29:21.200 um but every last one of those think tanks is funded by lockheed martin or you know raytheon

01:29:29.180 or whatever so it's like the thing is that a lot of times in government there's it's a very

01:29:37.720 different thing to be like swim with the current than to swim against the current you know there's

01:29:42.540 no such thing as a fabian libertarian you don't you know you have you might have some hardcore

01:29:48.060 communists and then you have like an AOC who's like I want incrementally more

01:29:52.380 government you can't get incrementally less government because there's no

01:29:56.280 that's asking the government to have less power now if you're the neoconservatives

01:30:02.220 and you come around with like hey I've got a plan to fight forever wars you

01:30:07.200 know I've got a plan to go topple all of these different countries you're gonna

01:30:10.620 get some money from weapons companies and so anyway just saying aside from

01:30:14.460 the spiritual fascism i thought that's what fascism i mean leaving aside the anti-semitic

01:30:19.620 component um of the nazis which was a big component but the idea of fascism that the state

01:30:26.200 you know merges with the industrial powers yeah this is what it is and also just swap out the

01:30:34.060 jew hatred and make it muslim hatred or make it german hatred or russian hatred or whatever it

01:30:39.920 is you know they always pick another thing some ethnic hatred so yeah it's not but that's exactly

01:30:44.060 right fascism one man it's so it's so ironic the same when sometimes when you win you really lose

01:30:48.900 you know you could they could say on paper and i'm sure there's some historian professor

01:30:52.560 who would say no like capitalism and communism won the second world war and fascism was defeated

01:30:58.220 except what arose out of it was the fascist model for everybody essentially right which is and again

01:31:04.700 it's fascism is kind of ill-defined but kind of ill-defined yeah well but broadly speaking i mean

01:31:10.460 what are we talking about? The FDR and the entire progressive movement, the original progressive

01:31:17.920 movement, this is what they were advocating for, right? It's like, we got to get away from

01:31:22.540 laissez-faire free markets. We're not going total communist, but we need a strong, powerful state,

01:31:28.420 powerful enough to regulate the economy and the country, and then also fight wars abroad.

01:31:34.480 i mean without majority support yeah i just don't really see what and and we can cling to this idea

01:31:41.780 of democracy which is always really an illusion you know it's never really true it doesn't really

01:31:47.820 in fact there was a a study done i want to say this was at princeton if i'm remembering correctly

01:31:53.380 this was like maybe 15 20 years ago but they did a study where they said they just concluded that

01:31:58.720 we're an oligarchy not a democracy and they literally just went through it empirically and

01:32:02.400 we're like, the American people's feeling has no impact on no bearing whatsoever. You could say we

01:32:07.980 have elections. And if you really don't like George W. Bush, you can vote for Barack Obama

01:32:12.680 instead of John McCain. But what'd you vote for him for? Because he said he'd close Guantanamo

01:32:18.340 Bay and end the wars. Guantanamo Bay is still open today. And we're on the seventh war of

01:32:25.380 Wesley Clark's seven wars in five countries. None of that stopped. What did we get during Obama?

01:32:30.340 We got a massive escalation in Afghanistan.

01:32:32.860 We got wars in Libya, in Syria, in Yemen,

01:32:36.660 drone bombing campaigns in Pakistan,

01:32:39.360 continued the war in Iraq, ended the war in Iraq,

01:32:41.680 then re-invaded Iraq when his pet ISIS

01:32:45.080 left over from the war in Syria came back.

01:32:46.660 So I think you're describing the upside of all of this.

01:32:49.160 Again, I haven't slept eight hours in a month.

01:32:52.100 I'm so distressed.

01:32:53.300 I'm in no sense for this.

01:32:54.900 I argued against it, obviously.

01:32:56.900 But it's happening, and this is

01:33:00.120 the end of the empire as we knew it hopefully it'll you know shrink back into something manageable

01:33:05.320 that serves our interest but um who knows what'll happen but we're definitely not going back to where

01:33:10.340 we were a month ago we know that so what are the upsides well one upside is you might wind up at

01:33:16.300 some point with presidents who want to run the united states no president wants to run the united

01:33:20.220 states because why would you want to run the u.s when you can run the world yeah by the way you

01:33:24.920 don't know the people you manage when you run the world they don't like come to your office and

01:33:28.200 complain about your treatment of them.

01:33:30.360 It's like there's no cost, it's all upside,

01:33:32.200 you're just, you're the king of the world.

01:33:34.920 I don't think future presidents will have that option.

01:33:37.620 And so maybe we'll get people who are like,

01:33:39.000 you know, LaGuardia Airport smells.

01:33:41.040 The Miami airport is like an atrocity.

01:33:43.420 Maybe we should fix that, don't you think?

01:33:45.520 Yeah, yeah.

01:33:46.360 Maybe this will cause like a reorientation

01:33:49.320 back to what matters, which is our country.

01:33:51.140 Yeah, quite possibly, and that's the,

01:33:53.420 yeah, that's really the best case scenario.

01:33:55.300 And you know, like, I try to, well I look at.

01:33:57.940 models like, you know, when the Soviet Union collapsed, right, there is, I remember there

01:34:03.480 was a, so Murray Rothbard talked about this in a speech once. Murray Rothbard, for people

01:34:07.820 who don't know, is, in my opinion, like, the most brilliant political theorist of the 20th

01:34:13.160 century. He's a genius. And he was, you know, of course, he ended up supporting Pat Buchanan

01:34:20.360 in 1992. He was an economist and a historian and a philosopher. And so he was talking about,

01:34:25.820 I guess this was like the speech he gave shortly

01:34:28.200 after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

01:34:29.880 And he was talking about how he had seen

01:34:32.840 like a video of a Chinese family

01:34:37.840 under Chinese communism at the time.

01:34:40.980 I guess maybe this was back,

01:34:42.400 he was talking about from like before Mao Zedong died.

01:34:45.660 And he said that the interviewer asked him questions,

01:34:49.800 they were just talking about how much they loved the regime

01:34:51.760 and he said, would you rather your kids had a,

01:34:55.100 It was something like, would you rather your kids had a prosperous life or were loyal servants of the regime and had a very difficult life?

01:35:01.800 And he says, loyal servants of the regime and a very difficult life, no problem.

01:35:05.040 And so Murray Rothbard said he watched this and he was like, my God, I mean, this is just so horrible.

01:35:08.940 Like, they've actually done it.

01:35:09.820 They've created the communist man and destroyed the human soul.

01:35:12.660 And then he's talking to his buddy, who's another genius who went to China a lot and was like a China expert.

01:35:17.220 And he goes, no, that's what they say when the cameras are there.

01:35:21.500 That's all that is.

01:35:22.660 It's like, I doesn't believe that.

01:35:23.940 You know what I mean?

01:35:24.340 they just know this is on tape you can't say anything else and so that's what you say and

01:35:27.740 then they go about their day not really caring what the regime says and so like when the soviet

01:35:32.100 union collapsed um from all like i've read about it like that was essentially the state of the

01:35:38.780 soviet union was like no one believed the government anymore they just all knew they

01:35:42.300 were liars that's right they all knew this was bullshit and they were really actually we're in

01:35:45.520 the brezhnev era here that right and so now of course the the war hawks and the neoconservatives

01:35:51.580 They always viewed us luring the Soviets into Afghanistan and getting them bogged down there, fighting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, including the foreign Arab Mujahideen and Osama bin Laden, who we were supporting.

01:36:05.860 But they always viewed this as a great success because it brought down the Soviet Union.

01:36:09.280 And I don't know enough about what factor led to what.

01:36:13.340 I mean, communism is not an effective economic system.

01:36:16.220 But I'm sure the war did hurt them a lot.

01:36:18.500 I know how costly wars can be and how much they can degrade our country.

01:36:21.360 i know wars in afghanistan can degrade your country so i'm sure that was part of it but my

01:36:26.020 point is that it wasn't like america went in and toppled the ussr right like they collapsed on

01:36:34.240 their own partly as a result of fighting foreign wars and partly as a result of you know just

01:36:38.460 government lying and terrible economic policies but at a certain point like the soldiers just

01:36:44.900 weren't willing to fire you know like there were attempted uh um counter coups yeah yes there were

01:36:51.340 attempted coups in the past where they did fire and they were like no you're not leaving the

01:36:55.480 soviet union but by this point in 89 or whatever it was as the people started rising up they were

01:37:01.060 like we're just not we're not doing this anymore they themselves don't believe it anymore the

01:37:06.080 government and and so i guess it's a long way to get to what i'm saying but like at a certain point

01:37:12.240 we might just we might hit a point where like the people just aren't believing this anymore

01:37:17.100 the law enforcement whether military or police just aren't going to crack down on the american

01:37:21.860 people in that way and that would maybe lead to a rise of a real president who actually ran the

01:37:27.300 country and i don't know i think if i'm not mistaken i believe in um when there was like

01:37:32.320 german reunification they didn't from what i understand i don't think they didn't really

01:37:36.940 punish like the people in the communist government they kept them on their pensions absolutely they

01:37:41.140 And I feel like we almost need something like that.

01:37:44.300 I know Curtis Yarvin's talked about this a bit, but something where it's like, look,

01:37:47.880 man, I think there are some people at the absolute top who need to be criminally prosecuted.

01:37:52.700 But like, we got to find a transition from here to there.

01:37:57.620 Like if we're if we're buying off bureaucrats, that would be cheaper than continuing this

01:38:02.860 system.

01:38:03.340 You know what I mean?

01:38:03.900 Like there's almost something where if a president could come up and say like, hey, all you guys

01:38:07.860 working in the intelligence agencies

01:38:09.260 who were working to undermine presidents,

01:38:11.400 you all have amnesty,

01:38:12.980 but you got to pack up and go home right now.

01:38:15.020 Like, that's it.

01:38:15.940 In a weird way, we need,

01:38:18.340 as you said, we need an actual president

01:38:20.160 who's actually running the country.

01:38:21.660 And who can restore peace here.

01:38:23.600 I mean, I think older Americans

01:38:25.280 believe their country is more united

01:38:28.020 and cohesive than it really is.

01:38:30.300 You've got an entire generation of people

01:38:32.240 who weren't born here,

01:38:33.100 whose parents weren't born here,

01:38:34.260 who came here on the promise

01:38:35.760 that can't be fulfilled,

01:38:36.840 which is it you know of a better life economically and I think it's gonna be

01:38:43.320 tough to make good on that promise honestly and so what do you do with that

01:38:47.220 what do you do with dashed expectations at scale millions of people who kind of

01:38:52.400 thought they were getting something and didn't get it you know a country where

01:38:55.500 half of all households get a government check half of all households so and the

01:39:00.520 average age of the first time home owner the first time homeowner is 40 yeah

01:39:04.840 Exactly. So you've got a lot of issues here and all of our attention is there. It's in the Persian Gulf or China or Venezuela or wherever. But once you readjust and start thinking about how does this country deal with dashed expectations and remain coherent, how does it prevent the rise of like a truly dangerous demagogue?

01:39:25.940 yeah yeah well also it's not like the two it's not just that we're focused over there and so

01:39:31.660 we're not taking care of what's going on here it's the focus over there is destroying over here

01:39:36.380 100 as it always does okay so the angriest i've ever been at you was when you said that uh you

01:39:43.160 said lindsey graham's views are uh war everywhere and austrian economics at home and i was like no

01:39:48.900 you're right you're right no but look i mean because and it's not just i don't care about

01:39:53.760 just like the term but it's it's the the idea is that essentially what's going on monopoly

01:39:59.960 capitalism yes yes but the opposite of austrian economics big government central banking record

01:40:05.180 you know record high government spending every single year and so what happens essentially is

01:40:10.060 and this is what also i'm so furious at this administration over over this stuff and you know

01:40:15.400 i don't know it's you're in more of a uh you're you're in a tougher position than i am where you

01:40:22.180 were the guy in trump's ear trying to convince him not to do this or one of the guys who got to

01:40:27.440 meet with him and convince him not to do this i think the only one yeah i think so well the last

01:40:31.660 one is no longer with us um so uh you know there's that and yeah yeah so um but you know so the thing

01:40:42.120 is like me i like i'm no good at being a political strategist like i said i'm just good at being a

01:40:46.460 podcast flash of rage that was so intense i lost i lost my vision yeah no i understand it all well

01:40:52.060 it's worth it there's some things worth being that angry over um but so you know i kind of go i don't

01:40:57.720 know political strategy stuff but i go i think you should just like you know try your best to stay

01:41:03.800 being able to at least he has one person who's telling him to do this but the thing is that i'm

01:41:08.920 just not capable of doing that and i'm not close to the administration so i'm just like red behind

01:41:13.480 the eyes furious. But one of the big things I'm furious about is that they're handing this country

01:41:17.800 right back over to the Democrats, who really are every bit the threat that we were making them out

01:41:22.500 to be over the last decade. And they're race haters too. And they're going to come in more

01:41:25.860 authoritarian and more angry because they are furious that we disobeyed them and put Donald

01:41:32.000 Trump back in the White House. And like all their plans, I mean, look, we saw what they did through

01:41:36.340 COVID. We saw what they did with tech censorship. And I don't want to find out what a central bank

01:41:40.400 digital currency looks like and what carbon you know social credit scores look like and the thing

01:41:45.580 is that what look at you watch the democrats as they're winning now right like you could look at

01:41:49.960 the races when mom donnie won in new york when the new governor uh won in new jersey the new

01:41:56.100 governor in virginia there have been a couple races in texas where they were like outperforming

01:42:00.640 what they should be performing in texas every last one of them is running on what they now call

01:42:06.160 unaffordability it's like they just made up a new term because they and literally none of them i

01:42:13.340 don't i just really don't think if i had one of them sitting where you're sitting right here and

01:42:16.560 i was grilling them and i could go what is unaffordability i don't think one of them has

01:42:21.560 an answer i don't even think they know the term currency debasement i don't even think they know

01:42:25.620 respect for human rights at all oh no none here in virginia which was conservative or normal 20

01:42:31.180 minutes ago they bring in some guy literally born in india from another country to lead the effort

01:42:37.360 to confiscate people's guns and no more self-defense in the state this just happened yeah i mean it was

01:42:42.280 like not long i mean a year ago they had a republican governor so it's an evenly not much

01:42:47.980 of one but it's still it's an evenly divided state the second they take power you can't defend

01:42:52.160 yourself right well but look this is humiliating bring some guy from another country to lecture

01:42:56.400 you about your country where your family was born you don't have the right to have a gun yep no

01:43:01.060 that's it's such such an outrage i mean it's just like unbelievable but look but the thing is that

01:43:06.820 it's gonna happen running on unaffordability is winning for them obviously because that is the

01:43:12.460 issue right now they don't understand that unaffordability means price inflation it means

01:43:17.500 that you've debased your currency right and so this is so the thing is now we're handing them

01:43:23.860 this thing to run away while donald trump is talking about you know working with the ayatollah

01:43:29.560 about the Strait of Hormuz or whatever,

01:43:31.620 your local Democrat is going,

01:43:33.400 hey, why are your grocery prices so high?

01:43:35.360 By the way, all the price inflation from the Joe Biden,

01:43:38.100 you know the way this stuff works.

01:43:39.340 It's cumulative.

01:43:40.380 So Donald Trump, we live in an inflationary economy

01:43:42.800 because of the central bank.

01:43:44.080 It doesn't matter what.

01:43:45.200 Inflation means an inflation of the money supply.

01:43:47.080 Right, because they will, no matter what,

01:43:49.640 print enough money so that we don't fall

01:43:51.200 into a deflationary economy.

01:43:53.580 They're going to do that.

01:43:54.640 And they're not even printing the money.

01:43:56.780 They're just typing into a computer these days.

01:43:58.760 So they can get ahead of it. And so Donald Trump might brag that the CPI is only at 2% and not at 9% where Joe Biden was. But for every regular American, we lived through all of those price increases. And now it's just 2% more expensive than it was under Joe Biden. So you haven't been helped any. The prices aren't going down. They're just going up at a slower rate.

01:44:19.820 It's like, I think it was Michael Malice who had the phrase where he goes, when they go, they go, we cut inflation in half.

01:44:28.820 And they go, it's literally on the level of if you knew somebody who gained 100 pounds in a year and then the next year they gained 50 pounds and they go, I'm getting thinner.

01:44:36.440 And you're like, no, you are not.

01:44:38.920 You are getting fatter, sir.

01:44:40.620 Like the goal is not to slow down how much weight you put on.

01:44:44.700 But it really does just come down to this, right?

01:44:47.440 is that we have a government that we cannot afford.

01:44:51.900 We cannot even come close to affording the size of government we have

01:44:54.620 because it's the biggest government in human history.

01:44:56.400 It's the biggest organization in human history, as you often point out.

01:44:59.820 And that organization is parasitical in nature.

01:45:03.600 It gets its money from taking that money,

01:45:06.800 from expropriating that money from the American people.

01:45:10.180 But you can't tax them enough and you can't borrow enough.

01:45:13.740 And so we have to print the money.

01:45:15.040 And so we have to print the money because we can't afford the size of government.

01:45:18.480 And so then that makes the price of everything go up and up and up.

01:45:21.820 And so essentially the point I'm getting at and this is why I just I just point out that to say it's Austrian economics gets it because the what guys like Mamdani can come in and do now is say, hey, look, everything's so unaffordable.

01:45:35.480 And you know what the answer to that is?

01:45:36.920 A government program, more control, more government, more government, more free buses and government supermarkets.

01:45:43.280 this and on the surface that kind of probably sounds reasonable to some people but the thing

01:45:48.260 is that we're here because government is too big that's what's got us to this place and so like I

01:45:53.660 think it's important to just like point that out to people that it's like no this is the thing is

01:46:00.120 that we cannot afford here's the real hard honest truth that Americans don't want to hear or at

01:46:05.740 least maybe the first part they want to hear people are okay with me saying this we can't

01:46:09.980 the world empire. We can't afford it. We don't have the money for it. We're pretending we have

01:46:15.900 it. We're just devaluing our currency and therefore, by the way, destroying young people's

01:46:20.460 lives. Now there's days I know a bunch of young people like in my family and friends who are

01:46:25.520 literally like good people go to work every day, make 70K a year. And they're like, how am I going

01:46:30.840 to settle down and start a family, dude? I mean, like the average house around me is going for

01:46:34.500 800 grand you make 70 grand a year that that math simply does not work and this is not i'm not saying

01:46:40.400 the bum on welfare i'm saying like the young man who's getting up and going to work every day

01:46:44.820 and we can so we cannot afford this empire and the other thing is which no one including

01:46:50.940 republicans ever wants to say we also can't afford the entitlement programs no and they're insane

01:46:56.340 they're the most indefensible thing in the world i mean leaving aside medicaid for a second but

01:47:01.820 social security and medicare are from a different time from a different country that are totally

01:47:07.140 in defense they were indefensible then but they're really indefensible now disability yeah you're

01:47:11.780 telling me you have a wealth transfer program from a poorer group to a richer group

01:47:18.880 i'm sorry the seniors aren't the ones who need the help right now that's for sure it's the young

01:47:24.460 people and i think that i i would love if some politician um i think ron paul is the only one

01:47:31.120 i've ever seen i'm sure massey would would agree with me if i said this to him but i i wish somebody

01:47:35.940 would just run on that i'm like yeah that's you know they used to say that's the third rail of

01:47:41.400 politics like why because boomers just need to get everything everything has to be rigged in favor of

01:47:47.740 them i mean i'm sorry like the thing is you kind of have these like abstract political debates

01:47:53.520 sometimes which i'm a nerd for this stuff i really like them but so you'd have like a you know you'd

01:47:58.140 have like a Keynesian debate a Chicago school guy, or you'd have a socialist debate a free

01:48:03.800 market guy. And like the free market guy would argue that, you know, there's a better allocation

01:48:08.160 of resources in a free market. And then the socialist would argue that some people fall

01:48:11.760 behind. And so you need redistributive policies to take from the wealthy to give to the people

01:48:15.840 who have fallen behind. But who argues that you should have a redistributive policy from the poor

01:48:21.240 to the rich? That's the whole United States of America. That's all of central banking. That's

01:48:26.440 All of government spending, all it is is they take money from the working people and they give it to millionaires.

01:48:33.440 Go look at any of the suburbs of Washington, D.C.

01:48:35.920 None of them make anything.

01:48:37.380 They're all in $3 million houses because government spending is north of $7 trillion.

01:48:43.720 Of course.

01:48:44.640 Well, that – unfortunately, it's getting to the point where that kind of is our economy.

01:48:48.100 Yeah, yeah.

01:48:48.820 So you'd really need to reorder things on the – beginning with the foundations.

01:48:54.280 Yeah, well –

01:48:55.160 But two good things are happening.

01:48:56.780 One, the empire is by necessity shrinking.

01:49:00.160 And so that's a cost savings.

01:49:02.740 And that's a reorientation back where the attention belongs, which is here.

01:49:06.680 And two, you have the baby boom going away, which is 1946, 1964.

01:49:12.560 So people born in the middle in 1956 are now 70.

01:49:16.540 So they'll be 80 in 10 years.

01:49:18.340 So that generation, clearly I think everyone agrees, not everyone in it, but as a generation destroyed the country.

01:49:24.500 Oh, yeah.

01:49:24.880 Yeah, just the worst.

01:49:25.620 And annoyed the country.

01:49:26.700 With some notable exceptions.

01:49:28.020 Of course there are.

01:49:28.240 My mom included.

01:49:29.980 She's cool.

01:49:30.880 But the rest of them.

01:49:31.740 Oh, many.

01:49:32.340 Many notable exceptions.

01:49:33.060 I know a million baby boomers that I've got a million, but I've met baby boomers I like.

01:49:36.980 Well, I just couldn't.

01:49:38.240 I mean, the thing about it.

01:49:39.300 Not that many, though.

01:49:40.320 Jeff Deist is a really, really brilliant guy.

01:49:42.980 He ran the Mises Institute for years.

01:49:46.060 He's over at Monetary Metals now.

01:49:48.160 But he's a really, really brilliant guy.

01:49:49.860 He had this speech one time where he was talking about the boomers and like the evolution of the generation and what they believed at the time.

01:49:57.580 And it's so it is just the most self-absorbed, selfish generation ever.

01:50:01.700 I mean, they literally their slogan was don't trust anyone over 30 until they turned 30.

01:50:07.000 And then he does like Jeff Dice, like went through the whole thing.

01:50:09.640 I don't remember all of it.

01:50:10.680 But then by the end, they were the ones pushing COVID.

01:50:14.180 Like they started out as the don't trust anyone over 30.

01:50:16.900 and then they said shut down the schools

01:50:18.900 so that I don't get sick.

01:50:20.760 Like take from my grandchildren's generation

01:50:23.180 so that I'm protected.

01:50:25.680 And yeah, I mean these guys-

01:50:27.140 But the dumbest too.

01:50:28.020 I mean the thing about their narcissism is the core sin.

01:50:30.900 Like that's their main problem

01:50:32.600 is they're all about themselves.

01:50:34.120 The thing you notice about people

01:50:35.060 who are all about themselves

01:50:35.720 is how unwise and badly informed they are

01:50:38.400 because they don't pay attention to other people.

01:50:40.600 Therefore, they never learn.

01:50:42.200 Therefore, and I've noticed this since I was a child

01:50:44.180 because these were my teachers, the baby boom.

01:50:45.600 they'll fall for anything they're the most easily manipulated people who've ever lived in this

01:50:52.260 country they are the most dominated by their herd instinct like all the kids are wearing masks all

01:50:55.920 the kids are taking the shots all the kids are going into finance whatever all the other people

01:50:59.520 are doing they will do they're the mickey mouse club generation yeah they are truly without

01:51:05.640 creative impulse they're just not impressive in addition to being super annoying one of the least

01:51:12.560 attractive generations like there's a lot about them that we can the least attach to their own

01:51:16.460 children yeah you've got two houses but your kids have no house how does that work oh yeah the

01:51:20.560 generation of no fault divorce the generation of i gotta be me i gotta pursue my own happiness

01:51:25.660 when you got little kids but you is not that interesting yeah but the more you think about

01:51:30.060 you the dumber you get that's just what i've just always noticed it's like one of the most profound

01:51:35.520 ironies in life like this kind of counterintuitive thing where like if you're only concerned with

01:51:41.800 yourself, your self is going to suffer for that.

01:51:46.080 It's really true.

01:51:47.580 And you watch this all the time with people who really have really bad depression and

01:51:53.860 are just miserable, and they're constantly talking about their mood today.

01:51:58.200 It's like, hey, step number one, stop thinking about your mood.

01:52:02.020 Your mood is not that important.

01:52:03.820 Here's step number one.

01:52:04.880 Start thinking about other people.

01:52:06.600 How about this?

01:52:07.280 Try doing something productive for someone else other than yourself.

01:52:10.580 and don't think about your mood once while you're doing it.

01:52:13.340 I'll tell you, I've been on this earth for about 43 years

01:52:17.660 and I haven't learned that much.

01:52:19.320 I've got a few things.

01:52:22.420 I've never been anywhere near as happy

01:52:25.760 since I got married and had kids.

01:52:27.520 Once my life became about a family

01:52:29.540 and not just about me, you know what I mean?

01:52:32.860 And I think I was in this generation that was-

01:52:34.920 Did you expect that?

01:52:36.900 No, man.

01:52:37.680 I mean, I don't know.

01:52:38.340 I always thought before I met my wife,

01:52:40.140 it was always to me like everything in my mind was like like professional success right you know

01:52:46.380 like that was what I wanted to be a successful comedian and I wanted to I wanted to talk about

01:52:51.340 politics and all this stuff and I wanted I always wanted that and um you know it's weird now because

01:52:56.900 I've kind of like I've kind of gotten everything I really wanted in all those years and it's it's

01:53:00.980 nice don't get me wrong I really love my career I love what I do I love this I love doing shows

01:53:04.980 with you and it's great but like it's so unimportant compared to family I mean you know

01:53:11.120 like it's just not even it's not the older you get the more you realize it's like that's all

01:53:15.400 that really matters all that really matters are your your wife your children the close friends

01:53:21.740 that you have around you like the good people in your life connection to other people connection

01:53:25.980 to God that's all that really matters in life all the rest of it is kind of just part of the

01:53:30.780 journey and part of the thing. But, um, yeah, you do your best knowing you're probably not

01:53:35.920 going to move the ball that far. Yeah. Well, you know, I read this, um, there was this really

01:53:40.040 great book by, um, I believe the author's name. I, I, you know, I don't know if I've ever actually

01:53:45.600 heard it pronounced. I've just read it, but it's like a Jean Twenge or twinge or something.

01:53:50.840 Now I don't know about her. I think she was on Bill Maher's show recently. And she said one thing

01:53:55.700 that I thought was really stupid and I turned it off because I was like, I really liked her book.

01:53:59.060 I just don't want to, I don't want to know. You know how you feel sometimes? You're like,

01:54:01.820 I don't want to, don't. But she wrote this book called, I think it was called The Me Generation,

01:54:07.680 Generation Me, something like that. It was really great. I thought it was a really,

01:54:11.300 really good book. And it was kind of about my generation who was raised by the boomers.

01:54:15.200 And you know, the way I was raised, and again, I'm not, I had a really great mother. She's

01:54:18.900 really great and instilled a lot of really good things in me. This was bigger than her. This was

01:54:22.820 just the culture, but we were raised and I didn't think it was so unique at the time,

01:54:26.860 But I was really kind of a child of the, you know, a child of the unipolar moment, I guess you could say.

01:54:35.480 And then a teenager, young adult.

01:54:38.180 A post-Berlin Wall.

01:54:38.940 Yeah.

01:54:39.240 Well, I mean, I remember watching it, watching the Berlin Wall come down.

01:54:42.920 I was at my grandfather's house.

01:54:44.720 And my grandfather, as I told you before, was from Germany.

01:54:47.680 And I just, my only memory of it was I was a little kid.

01:54:50.160 I was born in 83, so I guess I would have been six years old when this happened.

01:54:53.540 So I'm a little kid.

01:54:54.300 and I just remember

01:54:55.620 I was being a little kid

01:54:57.300 and probably being loud

01:54:58.400 in the living room

01:54:59.040 or something

01:54:59.420 or walked in front

01:55:00.080 of the TV

01:55:00.520 and I remember

01:55:01.200 he snapped at me

01:55:02.100 and went shh

01:55:03.740 and I just remember

01:55:04.840 being like oh

01:55:05.400 How old was your grandfather

01:55:06.140 when he left Germany?

01:55:07.640 He would have been

01:55:09.240 I want to say

01:55:10.480 like 15 maybe

01:55:12.220 Oh wow

01:55:12.860 so old enough to remember

01:55:13.980 Yeah yeah yeah

01:55:14.540 old enough to remember

01:55:15.980 some really vicious things

01:55:17.240 he got out in 1938

01:55:18.740 but so anyway

01:55:21.440 so I just remember like

01:55:23.800 oh, this is really serious to grandpa, what's happening.

01:55:25.820 And it was the Berlin Wall being coming down.

01:55:27.800 Yeah, it was a big deal to him.

01:55:29.120 I'm not sure he liked it that much.

01:55:30.740 I think he was a little concerned about German reunification.

01:55:34.260 Many were.

01:55:34.840 You know, as you could imagine.

01:55:36.640 But it turned out to be a good thing.

01:55:38.900 But anyway, so, you know, I was, I kind of grew up in that time,

01:55:42.200 in the 80s and the 90s.

01:55:43.780 And there was, we didn't have things that I think

01:55:47.480 almost every other generation had.

01:55:49.340 Like we weren't raised with like God, chivalry, nation, country.

01:55:55.260 You know, there wasn't this.

01:55:56.340 It was like you go to school and, you know, get your homework done so no one's mad at you.

01:56:01.440 And then you can go play basketball outside or there's a new video game out.

01:56:05.320 It was let's let's hang out with our friends and have fun.

01:56:08.060 There wasn't like this, this, this like purpose, you know, like put into your life, which most people have in most of human history, even if it's just culture.

01:56:18.060 culture. Yeah. Culture, religious views, you know, you know, important things. And, uh, I think

01:56:24.500 there were, uh, a lot of people in, in my generation were like that, that it was almost

01:56:32.400 again, like we said before, you can't, you can't take God out of the equation because something

01:56:38.040 else just becomes God. And, and in a way, like, I know I've heard you say this before too, but it's

01:56:43.020 so true it's like the the desire to worship is so hardwired into the DNA of the human soul that you

01:56:49.780 just can't you can say you're an atheist if you want to but then like I'll find out what your

01:56:54.480 religion is pretty quickly and oftentimes it just becomes yourself you know when you don't have other

01:56:59.120 things it becomes like well let me have fun let me go get this but that is like I said 43 years I

01:57:03.840 haven't learned much in life one thing I have learned for certain is that if your highest goal

01:57:09.720 in life is your own pleasure you will be a miserable miserable human being yeah well i've

01:57:16.600 learned that i've learned that too so as you look around at 43 among people you know who are your

01:57:21.680 age grew up in the same world you grew up in how many are thinking about the existence of god right

01:57:26.080 now i think a lot more than ever were did you ever know any religious people growing up yeah i mean i

01:57:31.400 knew i knew some um but it was very few and far between like that were really like religious that

01:57:37.480 or talked about it or what, you know, like I knew, um, you know, even like I, I went

01:57:42.520 to, uh, like Hebrew school, but I went for like a year to like, my mom wanted me to be

01:57:47.540 bar mitzvah, but it wasn't really like a deep religious conviction.

01:57:50.400 It was more like, okay, this is what our people have always done, you know?

01:57:53.840 And like out of respect to your father and your father's father and your father's father's

01:57:56.740 father, you know, like, uh, and like, I could kind of understand that.

01:57:59.380 And so I went, um, but it was like a reformed, you know, uh, temple where I went there.

01:58:04.860 And I remember even the rabbi, like, you know, like some of the kids would be like, well, do you believe in God?

01:58:09.580 He's like, yeah, you know, everything that's good is God and everything.

01:58:12.900 You know, it was just total like Jewish, you know, essentially atheism.

01:58:18.140 I grew up around so many people like that.

01:58:20.200 Yeah.

01:58:20.500 So it was just, you know, there was just a lot of that.

01:58:24.060 And I don't, you know, I certainly think that one of the things I really focus on as a father, and I have little kids,

01:58:32.600 So but I will focus on this more over the years is like instilling the idea of purpose

01:58:37.440 Instilling the idea of like God and and not just God but like what that represents that like hey

01:58:43.200 You're you know, you're here. We're all here in this life together. This life is a little bit of a mystery

01:58:48.840 We don't know everything about it. Exactly, but we do know that

01:58:53.380 like we other people exist to as we exist and

01:58:58.120 human beings can be

01:59:00.120 We have this amazing capacity to be demonic or angelic, you know, like you can really you one person

01:59:07.780 You know, there's little moments in life where, you know, whatever it is

01:59:10.680 Like you're at the post office and it's 501 and you had to get this letter out today or you're getting fired

01:59:16.520 And you're like, you know, my life is ruined if you're talking to some person on the other end

01:59:21.120 Can you please just take this one packet? You know, I'm just coming up with a scenario and that person could go

01:59:25.440 All right, come here. Give me the package and you're like, you know, you just saved my life

01:59:28.920 You know what I mean? Like you have no idea what you just did. And like you can do that for other people. You can try your best to throughout your day and your career and your life be like, yo, let me help this guy and be that person. Or, you know, you can be what Benjamin Netanyahu is to the Palestinians, you know, like just a monster, the guy who just like ruined their family's life.

01:59:50.780 And so if we're kind of given this world and we don't have all of the answers to it, but we kind of know that we have, like, an ability to be either one of those things, hey, really focus on being the angel for people.

02:00:02.940 Really focus on trying to help others.

02:00:05.200 And I think that makes you a much happier person the more you focus on that.

02:00:08.620 I agree with that completely.

02:00:09.260 And do you find that people you knew in the secular world growing up are reaching similar conclusions?

02:00:15.160 Yeah.

02:00:15.460 I think I know several people like that.

02:00:17.960 And I do, I think that he had an amazing meteoric rise

02:00:24.340 and a really tragic fall.

02:00:25.660 But I think this is why Jordan Peterson

02:00:27.000 was such a phenomenon for years.

02:00:29.560 That it was like going around and telling young men

02:00:32.020 that you should search out purpose and search out God.

02:00:35.760 It's amazing how powerful that is.

02:00:40.200 I love that.

02:00:41.060 Yeah, me too.

02:00:41.840 He takes a lot of abuse and I think he's against me

02:00:45.720 or whatever, I don't even, I could care less.

02:00:47.640 but I will always appreciate that about Jordan Peterson.

02:00:50.020 Yeah, me too.

02:00:50.760 That he did that.

02:00:51.760 Yeah, you know, I like, in a way,

02:00:54.760 he was a guy who I always really wanted to talk to

02:00:57.500 and never did.

02:00:58.980 He was, you know, obviously, I mean,

02:01:01.240 him joining the Daily Wire and going on that side

02:01:03.840 was just a really, really tragic mistake.

02:01:06.880 And I think he threw away all of the credibility

02:01:09.880 that he had with the younger generation

02:01:11.980 when they really could have used his voice.

02:01:14.440 Yes, I totally agree with that.

02:01:15.200 He was never much as a political actor.

02:01:17.640 he was always something else.

02:01:18.760 No, he's like a Canadian psychologist.

02:01:20.400 Yeah, like this wasn't...

02:01:22.140 Sit that part out.

02:01:23.220 He missed the mark on a lot of his political points,

02:01:25.520 but I mean, when you're on record

02:01:27.180 telling Benjamin Netanyahu to give them hell,

02:01:30.340 that's really hard to come back from.

02:01:32.420 But he came on Joe Rogan's show

02:01:36.620 the episode after I debated Douglas Murray.

02:01:39.720 I believe it was the next one was Jordan Peterson.

02:01:42.220 And I remember watching it,

02:01:43.680 and I did feel like, I was like,

02:01:45.900 oh man i think he's gonna like say you know what i mean like i think he's gonna say something

02:01:50.520 you know nasty about me because he's ben shapiro and netanyahu's guy now and they just had this

02:01:55.740 big debate but and he didn't um he kind of said oh i thought he didn't name me he mentioned

02:02:01.560 douglas and joe and he said i thought i thought everyone involved did a good job good for him so

02:02:05.720 i was like okay that kind of that was nice to me in a way that i was like oh he had you know from

02:02:10.260 someone at the daily wire that's about as good as i can expect he was a pretty charitable guy i mean

02:02:13.820 And, you know, I thought he had flaws, but I was never, you know, I always said charitable

02:02:18.140 and still do have charitable feelings toward him.

02:02:19.920 Douglas Murray, however.

02:02:21.200 That's a different one.

02:02:22.000 What happened to Doug?

02:02:22.860 Is he still living in this country?

02:02:25.040 No, he's doing great.

02:02:26.000 I think he got a gig writing speeches for the Israeli government.

02:02:28.960 Oh, he did?

02:02:29.300 From the last I heard.

02:02:29.900 Yeah.

02:02:29.980 He did.

02:02:30.220 By the way, can I just, I don't know if I've, have I said this on your show before?

02:02:33.460 I don't think so.

02:02:35.140 Because I think last time we spoke was right after that debate, or last time we spoke on

02:02:39.160 the podcast, not spoke in life.

02:02:40.480 But last time we were doing the show was right after that debate, but before this came out.

02:02:45.200 And it was Ryan Grimm and the guys over at DropSite who published this.

02:02:49.900 But so if you remember the famous you've never been argument.

02:02:53.800 Well, I'm sorry.

02:02:55.060 I should not call that an argument.

02:02:56.620 It's not an argument.

02:02:57.700 Didn't rise to the level.

02:02:58.880 But what he said, what he was trying to say, which was really kind of silly.

02:03:03.260 But he was like, you know, he goes, well, he said, I have the journalistic courtesy of visiting a place before I talk about that place.

02:03:12.640 This was he was lecturing me about journalistic ethics.

02:03:16.960 Now, I'm not a journalist, Tucker.

02:03:18.760 I'm a stand up comedian.

02:03:19.820 You've been a journalist for many years.

02:03:21.140 So maybe you can fill me in on this.

02:03:22.460 I don't I'm not an expert in journalistic ethics.

02:03:26.520 What are the ethics of covering a country and not disclosing that you work for the government?

02:03:33.260 is that up there it is that i would i would have to consult like a professor of ethics like sam

02:03:39.920 bakeman freed's parents yes i think his mother does that for a living so we have a whole

02:03:44.140 infrastructure designed to answer complex questions like that dave but i by the way how

02:03:48.480 about i have the courtesy of um of not advocating for wars that i'm not willing to fight in myself

02:03:56.240 that's my professional uh courtesy but i think that is a much better standard well who spends

02:04:01.600 i mean what type of person and look i but he kind of went away didn't he i mean douglas murray was

02:04:05.400 like uh i took him seriously by the way i knew him well and um i thought he had you know there

02:04:10.500 were things about him that i felt sorry for him uh because of them but in general i'm smart and

02:04:15.180 i never had a problem with him at all had a couple fun dinners with him that debate which you were

02:04:22.020 proclaimed the loser of by a lot of people i think that just destroyed his life yeah well again it was

02:04:27.640 like no one except the people who already had made up their mind that Israel is the greatest

02:04:34.980 country ever. No one except them thought that he won the debate. A few of them seem to celebrate

02:04:40.760 that. The comment section under the video was just torching him. Like every regular person went,

02:04:46.880 oh, he just destroyed himself. And then I will say a lot of people, including some prominent

02:04:53.460 people who you listener know including charlie kirk by the way um texted me after that debate

02:05:01.060 and were like yo dude he just destroyed his credibility or like you're you like that was

02:05:07.420 crazy that he came at you like that i had people um you know like this whatever i won't name all

02:05:13.000 of them because i don't want to give out private information maybe i shouldn't have i i mentioned

02:05:16.560 that about charlie kirk because candace months back had had called on me to like to release

02:05:22.300 whatever private communications i have that might be relevant and i thought one of the things was

02:05:25.760 relevant was that he said after the debate that he largely agreed with me after the douglas murray

02:05:29.720 well he certainly did i talked to him on this topic yeah i'm yeah so i did think that was

02:05:33.980 relevant into like where his mind state was but other people like i think a lot of people kind of

02:05:38.220 expected him to be like they were like okay dave you've been blowing through these debates but

02:05:42.240 this is the best guy on the other side so he's going to come really give you a challenge so

02:05:47.300 there was no chance that well that's right someone from brooklyn was going to beat well

02:05:50.520 Yeah, I guess that's the first the first advantage that he had. But, you know, there's a weird thing where again, kind of back to what I was saying before. You see this thing where. So after that debate happens, I have this huge like groundswell of support from people.

02:06:07.440 Then Donald Trump tweets out you got to go get Douglas Murray's new book like two days after the debate or something like that

02:06:13.800 and it just I thought there was an interesting parallel between that and

02:06:18.260 when

02:06:19.560 Donald Trump just tweeted the other day about how great not the one to watch the show

02:06:23.320 But he treated last week about how wonderful Mark Levin is and how everyone arguing with him is awful or something like that

02:06:29.500 And if you look on Twitter, I'm saying Twitter is everything, but it's one little, you know glimpse into things

02:06:34.940 I mean Mark Levin gets ratioed by random people like not even like like you or Megan Kelly or

02:06:42.300 someone like that I'm saying like some random guy will just call Mark Levin an idiot and way

02:06:47.240 more people like his tweet than like Mark Levin's tweet he's out there he's feuding it with Megan

02:06:52.940 Kelly and he's calling you and me every name in the book and then the entire audience is just

02:07:00.280 going with us, and then Trump comes out and says, we're all in with him.

02:07:04.440 So I saw that when Trump tweeted that about you read, you know, Douglas Murray's dumb

02:07:11.040 books, and I kind of willfully ignored it because I was so focused, well, because I

02:07:17.300 like Trump, but also because I was so focused on the Iran thing and just have to prevent

02:07:21.120 a war with Iran.

02:07:22.360 Yeah, that's more important.

02:07:23.660 Well, I don't know, though.

02:07:24.800 I mean, that was foreshadowing that actually there was a lot of control.

02:07:28.340 Why would the President of the United States

02:07:30.040 be promoting Douglas Murray, who is not even American,

02:07:33.700 and he's totally discredited?

02:07:35.900 Why would the President be promoting him?

02:07:38.340 Well, I mean, doing Mark Levin is much worse.

02:07:41.140 I mean, look, Douglas Murray, I do think he was ridiculous

02:07:44.860 and he kind of made an ass out of himself in that debate.

02:07:47.860 But Mark Levin has gone to a level of retardation

02:07:53.320 that I've never seen out of, you know, like,

02:07:55.200 listen, I was never to, I was somewhat impressed

02:07:58.140 by the first generation of neocons you know i think i worked for them yeah well i i know yeah

02:08:02.660 i was one but i think well sorry no but i mean like i mean like leo strauss and irving crystal

02:08:08.120 and those guys right and and but then i always thought like i always kind of went you know if

02:08:13.880 you remember the um at fox news now he wasn't really on your show a lot but if you remember

02:08:18.960 the reverence people used to have for charles krauthammer yeah like they would all talk about

02:08:24.200 And to his face, they'd be like, the genius is here.

02:08:26.980 And then I'd be like, I've never heard him

02:08:28.640 say anything interesting ever.

02:08:30.220 I just don't agree more.

02:08:31.340 I don't know what the, but all of those guys.

02:08:33.280 So I was always like.

02:08:33.920 One thing I'll say about Charles,

02:08:34.880 who I knew really well, he was a very nice man.

02:08:38.060 And he was a nice man because he had had to reckon

02:08:40.380 with being paralyzed from the chest down from medical school.

02:08:44.900 And so he just had a perspective on life.

02:08:48.520 I spent hours talking to him, and I knew his wife,

02:08:52.000 and I really liked him as a man.

02:08:53.940 but his views were impossible to defend

02:08:56.760 if you cared about the United States.

02:08:57.700 Yeah, that right.

02:08:58.860 But anyway, I guess with all of them,

02:09:01.080 I was never particularly intellectually impressed

02:09:03.880 with any of them.

02:09:05.060 No, I agree.

02:09:05.760 By the way, if you want to see,

02:09:07.280 if you've never watched, man,

02:09:08.800 Scott Horton debating Bill Kristol

02:09:10.700 at the Soho Forum.

02:09:12.100 Well, that's unfair.

02:09:12.420 It was, you really exposed

02:09:14.200 just how much Bill Kristol has nothing.

02:09:16.300 No knowledge, no argument, nothing.

02:09:18.960 He literally, I've never seen it happen before,

02:09:20.380 he threw in the towel in the debate, essentially.

02:09:22.660 He literally, at one point, Scott makes some argument.

02:09:25.700 There was like a back and forth section.

02:09:27.920 And Scott makes some argument and he goes, well, we just have fundamentally different worldviews.

02:09:33.400 And you're like, yeah, that's why you're debating.

02:09:35.620 But you have to make an argument.

02:09:37.180 And then he will never explain what his worldview is.

02:09:39.360 And then in his closing, there was still like three minutes on the clock and he just stopped.

02:09:43.620 Anyway, I say all of this to say, I've seen some dumb arguments from neocons over the years.

02:09:50.220 I have never seen anyone go full blown Mark Levin the way he goes like it is that he's literally just a ranting old man yelling insults unattached to any argument at all.

02:10:04.980 Like his whole show is just like, yeah, this little punk wants to come and talk to me, a little fascist.

02:10:10.400 It's like, what is this, dude?

02:10:13.300 And so there is something about Donald Trump promoting that that is – that's like several levels worse than promoting Douglas Murray.

02:10:21.020 No, but it's – so then you have to ask like, well, what actually is it?

02:10:24.480 It's not designed to win people over.

02:10:26.480 It's designed to increase hatred.

02:10:28.080 Anti-Semitism, by the way.

02:10:29.800 Absolutely.

02:10:30.240 I mean, if you were whoever Mark thinks he's working for, the Israelis, I guess, you would look at the student and say, this is not helping us.

02:10:39.080 Don't do this.

02:10:39.660 to get some articulate, decent, hot woman on there

02:10:43.680 to make the case, or whatever, you do a marketing thing.

02:10:45.960 This is anti-marketing.

02:10:47.620 This is designed to repel people,

02:10:49.600 so why would you want that?

02:10:50.600 I don't know the answer, but it's clearly true.

02:10:52.540 Second, his relationship with the president is bizarre.

02:10:57.840 You think Trump likes that?

02:10:59.440 There was a moment at some stop anti-Semitism event

02:11:04.020 of some kind, or Hanukkah celebration,

02:11:05.780 or some Jewish-themed White House event

02:11:09.600 where Trump is there with Mark Levin,

02:11:12.840 and Levin comes over and puts his arm

02:11:14.600 around the president's neck and pulls him in.

02:11:16.740 Now, I know Trump well.

02:11:19.460 I mean, I wouldn't like that,

02:11:20.480 and I'm not even the president or a germaphobe.

02:11:23.740 What is that?

02:11:25.080 And under normal circumstances,

02:11:26.300 Trump would never put up with that.

02:11:27.580 You're doing the dominance move

02:11:31.700 over the president of the United States?

02:11:32.760 And over Donald Trump.

02:11:33.900 Are you joking?

02:11:34.740 Not just the president, but Donald Trump,

02:11:37.120 the most dominant alpha male guy.

02:11:39.280 That's a dominance move.

02:11:40.120 Who does that to other people.

02:11:41.400 Exactly.

02:11:41.880 Yeah.

02:11:42.200 But even Trump, who is very much about dominance, obviously, most powerful men are,

02:11:47.820 he would, Trump would never throw his arm around someone and give him a headlock like

02:11:51.340 that.

02:11:51.480 No, no, no.

02:11:51.940 He wouldn't do that.

02:11:52.140 He'll pull you in while he shakes your hand.

02:11:54.000 A hundred percent.

02:11:54.400 Or he'll do the thing, what did he do at one of the G7 meetings or whatever, where he cuts

02:11:58.180 in front of some other world leader.

02:12:00.060 But like there are, by the way, this is another thing that I am totally.

02:12:02.580 That is breaking the rules, dude.

02:12:04.220 But I'm oblivious to this thing, but this is, as you said, powerful men are like this.

02:12:08.180 Yes, they are.

02:12:08.540 Where there's like alpha moves.

02:12:10.100 Yes.

02:12:10.320 Like taking your thing and just make it, you know, like whatever.

02:12:13.480 Like if you have a little thing of peanuts here that you're eating and I just reach in and tail, you know what I mean?

02:12:17.340 Like, but to do that to Donald Trump, I understand.

02:12:20.040 I'm not trying to make too much of a little thing.

02:12:21.620 No, it's not a little thing.

02:12:22.140 But that was, there was something symbolic and then proclaims him the first Jewish president.

02:12:28.620 You've got to think that Trump, he never said this to me, but just knowing him, you've got to think he's filled with rage.

02:12:35.940 Someone doing that to him.

02:12:37.300 Well, look.

02:12:37.860 But he puts up with it anyway, but why would you do that to him?

02:12:41.240 So if you want to exert influence over someone who's powerful,

02:12:44.020 there's a way to do it.

02:12:45.520 But the last way to do it is to be like,

02:12:47.280 I'm in charge here, just so you know.

02:12:49.740 I'm more powerful than the president of the United States.

02:12:51.540 That's what Levin is saying, and Trump is putting up with it.

02:12:54.340 This is either, it's a form of sadomasochism,

02:12:57.880 but it also reveals the true architecture of power

02:13:01.160 in a way that's like, what?

02:13:02.820 What is that?

02:13:04.800 Well, here, I'll say this,

02:13:06.200 And just to preface this, I'm not saying anything other than what I'm saying.

02:13:11.280 I'm not implying something that I don't know any more than this.

02:13:14.620 And maybe you know more than I do.

02:13:17.000 But I will say, you know, people used to say when Donald Trump was first rising to his political career in 2016 when he was running, when he was first president.

02:13:27.100 I remember liberals used to always say that he's dog whistling bigotry.

02:13:32.720 yeah and you know we always thought this was so always like a dog whistle but it's like a thing

02:13:37.060 where you kind of first of all it's kind of weird because you're like well then wouldn't you not

02:13:41.460 hear it if it's a dog whistle because wouldn't only the bigots hear it isn't that the idea

02:13:45.860 also that seems like a very convenient way of saying even though there's nothing i can actually

02:13:51.320 point to that you said he's also raised but what i always thought was that what donald trump did

02:13:56.480 was he would very often

02:13:59.260 stoke or give a wink and a nod

02:14:02.480 to conspiracies.

02:14:03.900 Oh, big thing.

02:14:04.500 Look, he went out there

02:14:06.200 about Obama's birth certificate.

02:14:08.380 He obviously called out

02:14:10.160 the whole Russiagate thing,

02:14:11.780 which was a legit conspiracy

02:14:13.360 to unseat the sitting president.

02:14:15.380 No, but the Q thing.

02:14:16.320 The Q thing.

02:14:17.900 He'd float out,

02:14:18.980 obviously the election being stolen,

02:14:21.680 but all the witch hunt,

02:14:22.620 and of course now with Epstein,

02:14:24.120 when it's not really,

02:14:25.280 well it is a conspiracy but it's a legitimate one but he's saying oh it's you know there's a

02:14:29.280 democratic hoax he is very quick to any time it will help him look good to be like it's a conspiracy

02:14:36.160 against me never once with butler never once and it's kind of crazy man like we don't we have like

02:14:46.800 no information they haven't even like attempted to give us a national story that puts a little

02:14:53.420 bow on top of like who this guy was or what happened, how there was such a security failure

02:14:59.540 that could allow a sniper, 130 yards away to get a clean shot at the president, a former president

02:15:05.480 and current candidates head. Um, what the just kind of no internet history can't get into his

02:15:11.280 phones. Oh, he wanted to kill anyone. He could, that's all nothing to see here. And it's just a

02:15:15.700 little bizarre to me that you would think like all other things making sense. You would just

02:15:20.640 think you would hear Donald Trump going, they tried to kill me. They tried to do this. They

02:15:24.840 tried to do it. But I mean, days afterward, he just thanked the secret service for what a great

02:15:30.140 job they did. And I don't know what any of that means. Well, I know a lot about it. And I'll just

02:15:35.760 say this, which we said publicly is I, you know, I got a call from somebody who said, I've got

02:15:41.100 a lot of material from the gunman. I'm not disputing he's the gunman, by the way, seems like

02:15:46.700 the gunman question is like was he working in concert with anyone else were there other people

02:15:51.720 involved right this is the same with charlie kirk it's not a question of you know i don't know

02:15:55.520 anything but the question is never just did the guy pull the trigger of course yeah prove or

02:16:01.100 disprove that with the videotape that we don't have from the charlie kirk assassination for some

02:16:07.620 reason but whatever the point is that's only one part of the story the question was were there

02:16:11.880 other people involved and in the case of butler this i got this corpus of information from a guy

02:16:17.940 almost off the street we showed that it was real always skeptical of this stuff very skeptical but

02:16:22.960 it turns out this was actually from thomas crooks's um youtube account and the fbi claimed that this

02:16:30.540 didn't exist well of course they knew it existed so then it then the question becomes like why are

02:16:34.920 they since the man is dead in this sole shooter crime there's a lone gunman the lone gunman's

02:16:41.920 gone why would we hold back anything any evidence we have but they did and that would include

02:16:49.160 video surveillance of the shooting range where he trained to shoot it's pretty good shot

02:16:53.340 over 100 yards with a 223 i should have to do that's like everyone's all these seals like

02:16:57.220 that's nothing but like for a non-seal right right it's a decent shot so um there's videotape

02:17:04.120 from the shooting range.

02:17:05.260 Did he train alone?

02:17:06.300 Who was with him?

02:17:07.780 Never been released.

02:17:08.720 And the investigation was shut down, shut down.

02:17:11.540 So what does that mean?

02:17:12.260 I don't know.

02:17:13.760 But, I mean, like what is going on?

02:17:17.220 Yeah, and I gotta say.

02:17:19.120 Why can't we know?

02:17:19.880 Well, hearing the heroic former director

02:17:23.660 of counter-terrorism come on your show

02:17:26.320 and kind of say the same thing,

02:17:28.440 does just have a lot more weight to it

02:17:30.340 when the guy was literally the director

02:17:32.180 of counter-terrorism and going like,

02:17:34.060 hey, what's going on here?

02:17:35.620 We have not gotten answers over these things.

02:17:38.200 He tied those facts, those are facts.

02:17:40.300 He stated facts.

02:17:41.940 By the way, when he, now we've just heard

02:17:44.120 the FBI's not actually investigating him,

02:17:45.840 that was all fake, he retained his security clearance

02:17:48.900 until the morning he left.

02:17:50.100 So if he was under investigation for treason or something,

02:17:53.240 he wouldn't have held his clearance

02:17:54.280 and had access to highest level intelligence,

02:17:56.560 which he retained until the moment he resigned.

02:17:59.000 So, okay, that was all a lie.

02:18:01.220 But he said, point blank,

02:18:03.260 one of the most informed people in the United States,

02:18:05.100 with clearances higher, I think, even than Mark Levin's,

02:18:07.680 there's a connection between Trump's decision

02:18:12.700 to go to war in Iran

02:18:14.040 and these not fully explained acts of violence.

02:18:18.060 He said that.

02:18:19.300 So, okay, before we denounce him as crazy,

02:18:22.160 which maybe he is, I don't know.

02:18:24.120 It doesn't seem to be,

02:18:24.960 but I hold up at any possibility.

02:18:27.600 What is he talking about?

02:18:29.580 And there has not only been zero interest

02:18:31.940 from like the people in charge of ginning up interest,

02:18:34.360 like the internet, the influencers.

02:18:37.300 There's been calculated discouragement

02:18:40.080 and attacks on anyone who persists in asking the question.

02:18:45.020 And I haven't gotten involved because I know everybody

02:18:47.960 and it's so emotional to me.

02:18:50.500 But at a certain point, I'm going to, you know, whatever.

02:18:53.060 I feel like I've got a pretty close vantage on all this stuff

02:18:55.600 and I'm getting a little sick of it

02:18:56.840 because every American has a right to justice,

02:19:01.320 not just for himself but for any other american citizen our whole system rests on the idea that

02:19:05.720 there will be justice affected by the u.s government and we have a right to know you

02:19:10.420 have no right to keep that from me on what grounds are you keeping that from me you can't brow beat

02:19:13.420 me into it by screaming candace owens again and again and again yeah that's right and and look

02:19:17.260 like sick of this i i've tried it's outrageous absolutely and listen i'll say just just personally

02:19:23.000 like i uh you know and i i knew charlie and um not super well we weren't like close friends but

02:19:30.820 Like I'd done a show a few times and we texted a few times that he had me at that that last let me do the debate there.

02:19:36.260 And we hung out for a little bit while we were there. And, you know, it's I wasn't as close with him as you were.

02:19:43.540 But it's even just like being friends with someone like that. It's it's first off, it's like it's very jarring to see that happen.

02:19:50.740 And then he's got a wife and little kids, really tragic, horrible situation.

02:19:54.560 And I'm like my incentives on all of this is like, I just don't want to believe that this was anything more than like one crazy guy with a trans furry boyfriend or whatever like that.

02:20:06.140 That actually is much more comforting to me than it's some conspiracy.

02:20:09.840 Half of Twitter seemed to think I was the one who got him killed or something like that or me and you and Megan.

02:20:16.080 I very much vehemently want to believe.

02:20:18.540 Yes. Right. So like we don't want that.

02:20:20.220 I will say so. And I have not done like deep dives and watched all of Candace's shows on this or something.

02:20:26.640 But like there's little pieces of information just like it's been confirmed by a few different people that he was texting them.

02:20:31.820 They're going to kill me. Like, hey, man, that's got to be like totally exhausted.

02:20:37.320 Didn't investigate it. I mean, what is this here? This is a pretty big deal.

02:20:41.680 You really got to get to the bottom of stuff like that.

02:20:43.980 And look, as you're sitting here and, you know, it's almost like sometimes people will call you out for being a conspiracy theorist or something or, you know, they say they're just asking questions.

02:20:55.620 You know what's worse than being a conspiracy theorist is having no curiosity about questions that have not been answered.

02:21:00.920 Well, also, there's just something.

02:21:02.400 And I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I believe in curiosity and skepticism.

02:21:06.160 I've encouraged that in a lot of people and some have been very resistant to be curious or skeptical.

02:21:11.140 And there are two sides to this.

02:21:12.260 There's not simply the people who are coming up with conspiracy theories, some of them obviously fantastical and wrong, I would think.

02:21:18.560 There's also the government side, which is telling you, shut up, we have this solved.

02:21:22.580 And I think we should apply the same skepticism to their claims as well.

02:21:25.780 There's no reason the FBI should get an automatic, on the basis of what?

02:21:29.900 Their track record of always telling the truth to people?

02:21:32.260 Like, what are you even talking about?

02:21:33.980 And how dare you threaten me and call me names?

02:21:39.000 I mean, I'm not getting paid for this.

02:21:40.820 I've stayed out of it.

02:21:41.740 I'm just getting too mad watching this.

02:21:44.460 So even before the Epstein files got released,

02:21:47.440 back when Podesta emails were released

02:21:51.120 and the original Pizzagate theory was born,

02:21:55.300 and if you look through some of those Podesta emails,

02:21:58.720 look, they're clearly talking in code.

02:22:01.920 Now, what is the code?

02:22:04.200 I mean, people are speculating that it was about children.

02:22:07.600 Now, I have absolutely no reason to believe that, but they're not planning pizza parties.

02:22:15.320 You know what I mean?

02:22:15.980 Like, they're speaking in code.

02:22:17.300 When Epstein's urologist, who's just prescribed him erectile dysfunction drugs, says, take the pills and then meet me for pizza and grape soda, that's in the Epstein files.

02:22:31.540 Maybe there's nothing to do with sex.

02:22:33.680 Maybe they're actually, you get wicked hungry after you take a boner pill.

02:22:37.280 I don't know.

02:22:38.440 But the fact that nobody cares to find out or even interview the urologist to spring

02:22:42.980 in and say, hey, what is this?

02:22:44.020 That's right.

02:22:44.420 And I felt the same way back then.

02:22:45.200 Who drinks grape soda?

02:22:46.280 What are you even talking?

02:22:47.120 There's no white person in America who drinks grape soda.

02:22:49.760 Stop.

02:22:50.020 I haven't had grapes.

02:22:51.000 I maybe had grape soda when I was a child once.

02:22:52.680 I'm not against it.

02:22:53.340 I'm just saying like, talk to the urologist.

02:22:55.840 No, well, right.

02:22:56.360 Exactly.

02:22:56.960 So it's the thing about it is, right?

02:22:58.440 Like even with the original Pizzagate thing, the position of like the corporate media was

02:23:03.740 to sit there and go you're an idiot if you think this code is about oh you're a conspiracy theorist

02:23:09.160 if you think instead of putting a microphone in front of john podesta and going hey you're

02:23:14.760 clearly speaking in code here people are assuming that that code is for raping children so clear

02:23:20.740 this up because it can't be any worse than what people are speculating so what is it sir and no

02:23:25.920 one ever even thinks to do that in this and all the hostility is aimed at people who are asking

02:23:31.940 the questions and that that's a tell right there yes there's people here you have gunshots ringing

02:23:37.480 out in my country people getting killed or an attempted murder couple of attempted murders

02:23:41.920 there will be more unfortunately and anyone who's interested in like finding out or doesn't

02:23:49.040 automatically trust the government which we're supposed to be skeptical of that person is the

02:23:53.200 villain yeah that's right and and you know in in a similar thing there i don't know i maybe i'm

02:23:59.300 going to struggle to like word this the right way but there's certain things that in a vacuum might

02:24:05.380 be true but aren't true in all circumstances so in in other words like if you typically speaking

02:24:13.240 you'd go hey before you want to start you know believing something you got to see strong evidence

02:24:18.940 for it or something like that or you can't just start theorizing and speculating about things

02:24:23.060 without like some indication or something pointing you in that direction but then like if me and you

02:24:28.220 both just wake up uh together and we we're blacked out for the last 10 hours and we're chained up in

02:24:35.760 a prison somewhere or something like that and you start going like we got to start speculating about

02:24:40.760 how the hell we got here because this is so crazy you know what i mean and then i'd be like hey my

02:24:44.340 neighbor said something this morning to me about how like i bet it's going to be a rough day you

02:24:49.060 know and i'm like we got to think maybe my neighbor had something to do with this now then some some

02:24:53.340 skeptic could come along and go your neighbor saying it's going to be a bad day doesn't act

02:24:57.960 isn't actually evidence and you're like okay but we're here like we gotta and so in in a sense

02:25:02.980 there's like okay yes you could you can be skeptical and it's good to be skeptical of of

02:25:08.580 some of these claims but at the same time we're sitting here watching it's so crazy to watch right

02:25:17.180 but the never trumpers are now the biggest hardcore trump supporters as they're destroying

02:25:24.860 the coalition that they were afraid of right destroying trump himself right and so you're

02:25:29.280 you've watched this happen and that does lead you to go how exactly did they pull this off

02:25:36.180 how is it that people like um you know so i you know look i'm i'm a little bit more hot-headed

02:25:42.480 than you at times and maybe this is because you know i'm a little i'm a decade younger than you

02:25:47.260 and i still drink big glasses of whiskey at night and i still and i'm just furious about a lot of

02:25:52.100 things. And I'm, I'm, uh, maybe I should, you know, let some of that go, but, uh, you know,

02:25:57.240 like I'm still furious at Ben Shapiro. And the only reason I hate Ben Shapiro's guts is because

02:26:01.520 he called Ron Paul a Jew hater, uh, back in the day when it was totally just ridiculous. You read

02:26:06.160 some of these tweets recently. I think Ron Paul is up there talking about how it's, it's not wise

02:26:10.520 to fight multiple wars. This is what brings down nation. And Ben Shapiro goes, Oh, I bet you just

02:26:14.860 want to strangle a Jew. You know, he's like, fuck you, dude, how dare you speak to a man so much

02:26:20.160 better than you that way, anyway.

02:26:22.360 But, so I was furious over the 12-day war last summer.

02:26:27.360 I was too.

02:26:28.200 And I went on Breaking Points, great show,

02:26:31.800 with Crystal and Sager, who I love very much.

02:26:35.180 He's so smart, man.

02:26:36.160 Great, literally love Sager to death, he's just great.

02:26:39.620 Someone really happy to call a friend.

02:26:41.340 And so I went on their show right after it,

02:26:45.260 and I called for Trump's impeachment,

02:26:47.260 I said he should be impeached and removed for this,

02:26:49.240 He's launched a war of aggression.

02:26:50.640 It's illegal.

02:26:51.560 It's for a foreign country.

02:26:52.820 It's what he promised not to do.

02:26:54.180 You know, I was very angry.

02:26:55.200 I still stand by that, but I was angry.

02:26:57.260 And then, of course, all of them, all the guys, you know, Josh Hammer and Ben Shapiro

02:27:02.620 and Mark Levin, they all just start talking shit about me.

02:27:05.300 Look, this guy doesn't support Trump.

02:27:07.760 Oh, he voted for Trump last time, but he's calling for his impeachment now.

02:27:11.060 As if I don't remember where all you guys were in 2016, when National Review was running

02:27:18.080 their never Trump edition. And Ben Shapiro promised for, for deeply held principled reasons,

02:27:24.520 he could never support Donald Trump. And Mark Levin was never true. All these guys were never

02:27:29.140 Trump. Now that he's become a war hawk, what he explicitly ran against being in every election,

02:27:36.280 now that he's become that they all love him to death and they're destroyed. Like, so anyway,

02:27:40.220 my point is, sorry, sometimes you see facts like that and you go, that's worth speculating about.

02:27:45.440 I do have some questions I'd like to ask on how exactly these guys were able to infiltrate this movement, destroy it from within, and, you know, set our country on this trajectory toward another catastrophic war.

02:27:59.280 There's a lot that went into that happening.

02:28:01.300 I couldn't agree more.

02:28:02.660 I guess the only last thing I would say about it is you started by saying the legacy media covered for the crimes of their masters, the ruling class.

02:28:12.540 Okay, got it.

02:28:13.700 I mean, that's what they exist to do.

02:28:15.000 That's why we have NBC News.

02:28:16.540 That's why CNN exists.

02:28:18.180 No, I totally, that's why Fox is here.

02:28:20.800 But to see people in independent media doing that,

02:28:24.400 and I understand it's very easy to get sidetracked.

02:28:26.240 Like you're mad at one person.

02:28:28.800 And so anyone who is asking similar questions

02:28:33.000 to that person like must be on that side or something.

02:28:35.020 But like try to retain independence in your head.

02:28:39.280 Like don't get sidetracked.

02:28:41.160 Certain questions have to be answered

02:28:42.860 no matter who's asking them, right?

02:28:44.440 One of the questions I still can't answer is why is it that all the neocons are the ones leading the screaming and anyone who asks questions about Charlie Kirk's death when Charlie Kirk was an enemy of the neocons, like open enemy of the neocons, invited you to TPUSA.

02:29:04.720 Like you don't invite – and he didn't – it's not because the kids at TPUSA are like, oh, I grew up loving Dave Smith.

02:29:09.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:29:10.240 Well, I said that.

02:29:11.260 I've said this on other shows too,

02:29:12.380 but I said this to you,

02:29:13.540 that it's like there was something about inviting you

02:29:16.240 or Megyn Kelly.

02:29:17.200 Yeah, we were on Fox News, it's fine.

02:29:19.580 And huge stars on Fox News.

02:29:22.180 It's not just like someone on Fox News,

02:29:24.020 like two of the biggest shows.

02:29:24.760 There's no reason to invite you to a Turning Point event

02:29:27.840 unless he wants the kids in the audience

02:29:29.740 to hear your views,

02:29:30.960 which he did because he substantively agreed with them.

02:29:33.800 And I would know,

02:29:34.580 because I talked to him about this a lot,

02:29:35.840 like a lot, a lot over years.

02:29:37.100 so for the neocons

02:29:39.080 whom he at best

02:29:41.680 didn't trust and mostly really didn't

02:29:43.800 like I never talk about what I think

02:29:45.840 Charlie thought because it feels so weird because he's gone

02:29:47.780 but I just have to say this

02:29:49.160 they're the ones leading the charge

02:29:51.400 and shut up don't ask any questions

02:29:53.840 like you tell me what this is

02:29:55.660 and I'm not going to take orders

02:29:57.540 from them who are these people anyway

02:29:59.460 this is the same reason why

02:30:01.200 this is the reason why I read that text message

02:30:03.440 that he sent me

02:30:05.180 and it was because

02:30:06.740 well part of it was because candace asked and i'm friends with candace and she was very she lost

02:30:11.160 someone she was very close to um but part of it was that you know because it's a weird thing to

02:30:15.820 do it's a weird thing to share private text messages with anyone especially someone who

02:30:19.540 just died and i got some pushback for that and i understand why people like i get their point maybe

02:30:23.540 i shouldn't have done that i'm not sure but you know it was the thing where like netanyahu

02:30:27.360 immediately is trying to hijack his legacy josh hammer and all these guys are immediately trying

02:30:31.660 to hijack his life and so it's kind of like selling their books right right literally dude

02:30:36.320 It's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life.

02:30:38.240 Josh Hammer did three interviews immediately after.

02:30:40.260 The only reason anyone's interviewing him

02:30:41.540 is because he was friends with Charlie Parker.

02:30:42.920 He was close around his circle or whatever.

02:30:45.460 And every single time he mentioned

02:30:47.300 how much Charlie loved his book.

02:30:49.420 It's like, Jesus, dude.

02:30:51.020 I mean, I just could never imagine getting here.

02:30:53.140 Yeah, I think it's a little strong to say.

02:30:53.760 Everybody, you know, the last thing.

02:30:54.820 Charlie was friends with Josh Hammer.

02:30:55.980 Well, okay, fine.

02:30:56.580 Well, he had him in his circles or whatever,

02:30:58.740 his handler or whatever it was.

02:31:00.360 But, you know, I remember, you know,

02:31:01.920 right before Charlie died, he called me and he said,

02:31:04.520 man I just wish everyone would listen to your podcast it's like this is so crazy of a thing

02:31:08.980 to say but the reason I I released that is because I'm like look I don't know exactly where Charlie

02:31:13.640 was on his evolution on this topic obviously he had at one point been a diehard pro-israel guy

02:31:19.660 but a lot of people were that and then kind of woke up over the last couple years but I know

02:31:24.060 that he texted me after my debate with Douglas Murray that he said he thought I did a great job

02:31:28.560 and he really did he said something like I read it verbatim on my show but he said something like

02:31:32.800 I believe it or not I really didn't disagree with almost anything you said yeah and I'm just saying

02:31:37.320 Ben Shapiro wasn't sending me that text no so for people to try to pretend there was no daylight

02:31:41.780 between the two of them it's just not true no there was hostility right big time and not just

02:31:49.480 with you know those guys yeah hostility I mean I don't want to overstate it I'm not saying he

02:31:55.320 hated them as people but I mean he did not agree at all and certainly didn't agree with war with

02:32:00.120 a ramp at all and with also honestly some of the christian zionist leaders i mean charles very he

02:32:08.040 loved israel as a country for sure and i think he had a complicated theology which i did not fully

02:32:12.760 understand and still don't fully understand but um the idea that you would put another country

02:32:17.800 before your own like he just rejected that flat out and some of those some of the christian zionist

02:32:23.840 leaders men are very aggressive and shark-like and very money-oriented and pushy and he started

02:32:29.860 of talking about that openly.

02:32:31.220 Well, he talked about it with me a lot.

02:32:32.420 Yeah, well, he talked about it on Megyn Kelly's show.

02:32:34.580 I mean, talked about the reaction he got from that.

02:32:36.400 From the evangelical leaders?

02:32:38.040 Well, maybe not from the evangelical leaders.

02:32:39.160 It was a mix, it was a mixture of.

02:32:41.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably a mix of both.

02:32:42.920 You know, Jewish Zionists like the guys you mentioned,

02:32:46.540 but also the people he grew up with

02:32:48.100 who were evangelical leaders.

02:32:51.020 And he was upset with them.

02:32:53.160 I mean, I talked to him about it at length.

02:32:54.960 I could name names with who he was upset.

02:32:56.460 I'm not going to, because he's gone.

02:32:58.020 But, yeah, that's just real.

02:33:00.380 And I don't know.

02:33:02.080 I don't even like talking about this, but I'm just offended by where this is going.

02:33:06.120 And the bottom line is every American has an interest in every murder getting solved.

02:33:11.320 And not just in getting solved, but fully solved.

02:33:14.540 And if you have a government agency that's shutting down a legitimate line of inquiry, at very least you have to answer the question, why are you doing that?

02:33:22.680 and they and joe kent has said in public multiple times including to me the fbi shut down any effort

02:33:29.500 to look into international connections here within days of the killing so someone should ask the fbi

02:33:36.300 like why'd you do that and no one seems willing to ask and look we also know what we know about

02:33:43.460 this fbi uh who i just could not be more disgusted with and you know um i know you saw when everyone's

02:33:50.760 afraid of them well what dan bongino was talking all types of shit to me on twitter or whatever

02:33:55.820 but it's it's like look man you just you you know there was a thing where people were saying uh they

02:34:03.220 were trying to goat dan bongino into debating me because he was talking shit about me and you know

02:34:07.580 as i was i think i responded in kind um but the thing is like he can't dan bongino not only can

02:34:14.660 he not come debate me, Dan Bongino can't ever do a difficult interview ever again for the

02:34:20.820 rest of his life because he's ended in one question. Literally one question ends it. I

02:34:26.040 just go, hey, okay, so you looked the American people in the eyes and you swore that you had

02:34:31.800 seen the proof that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Well, it's been declassified by an

02:34:36.320 act of Congress now, so go ahead and tell us. What'd you say? What's the proof? It's all

02:34:41.160 classified now there what it doesn't it doesn't what are the the few exceptions in the rule if

02:34:47.220 it's national security or if it harms the victims or something like that how would it possibly be

02:34:51.620 any of those for you to just tell me what you saw that made you comfortable enough to go out there

02:34:56.520 and swear that you had seen proof that he killed himself cash patel dan bongino any but these guys

02:35:02.700 specifically and this is one of the big things i think that i just want to interject i'm not

02:35:06.160 This is not aimed at anyone in particular, but, you know, we say we know things, but I would always add the caveat to the extent you can know things.

02:35:14.440 Of course, yeah.

02:35:15.000 I thought I've known many things, I've turned out to be wrong, you know, so I could be wrong.

02:35:19.740 But this is sincere.

02:35:21.020 I believe I can say with certainty that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered.

02:35:26.000 So, I mean, but of course I'm always open to countervailing evidence, always, because I'm ever mindful of my capacity for being wrong.

02:35:33.200 but i can say if you could x-ray my heart you would find that i believe with total certainty

02:35:37.980 he was murdered and the people in the u.s government knew that he was murdered

02:35:41.820 i don't want that to be true but i believe it is true so like it's going to take a lot you're

02:35:46.980 gonna have to show me that that's false well the the reason why i have so much contempt for uh dan

02:35:52.720 and cash patel particularly um and pam bondy too but more so the other two is that these guys

02:36:00.920 went around and really dan bongino i mean cash did many podcasts and stuff but dan bongino

02:36:07.120 got rich doing his show at a really big show and he flamed that epstein stuff for so long was like

02:36:16.000 don't let go of this one this is a huge scandal we're gonna get in there and expose it and i gotta

02:36:21.620 say every bit as much as the war in iran maybe not quite as much as this most recent one but the

02:36:28.220 covering up the Epstein scandal did so much to damage this administration

02:36:32.800 because it went to something very fundamental. The fundamental promise of

02:36:38.200 Donald Trump and the reason why Donald Trump, I believe the main reason that he

02:36:44.340 rode to political success and won the presidency twice, was that he said

02:36:49.200 he was going to drain the swamp. Drain the swamp was an incredibly effective

02:36:53.920 campaign slogan it was essentially saying look man on some level almost all Americans know this

02:37:00.020 this city in DC is filled with corruption and the people in political power have committed profound

02:37:08.020 crimes against the American people and none of them have been held accountable for it and we're

02:37:12.700 going to hold them accountable for this and for this Justice Department now to go in and put up

02:37:18.100 zero deep state arrests. I mean, dude, if you just think about the fact that the intelligence

02:37:24.460 agencies framed the sitting president for treason for four years, I mean, an obvious deep state coup

02:37:33.580 to, uh, to overthrow an attempted deep state coup to attempt to overthrow a democratically elected,

02:37:39.620 uh, president. Like it is, it was an outrage that they did it to him on the campaign,

02:37:43.800 but it is a little bit different when he's a presidential candidate than when he is the

02:37:48.300 commander in chief, the president of the United States of America. They framed him for being a

02:37:53.120 Russian spy. Donald Trump is a lot of things. He is not a Russian spy. Okay. There has never been

02:37:57.340 one. It was the most ridiculous thing ever. It was all complete phony evidence and they knew it.

02:38:01.880 They knowingly went forward with that. And, um, uh, Andrew, uh, Andrew McCabe admitted on 60

02:38:08.940 minutes that he said their plan was to invoke the 25th amendment, but they realized they couldn't

02:38:14.260 get enough people to go along with that. And so they settled for Robert Mueller. They settled for

02:38:18.640 a special investigation that would tie him down and not let him get his America first agenda

02:38:24.200 through. So there's that. There's COVID. There's, you know what I'm saying? There's the Epstein

02:38:29.380 stuff. There's all types of crime. I mean, COVID, you think about it. They freaking locked down the

02:38:33.980 country and didn't disclose that they made it they made the germ themselves fauci was like the

02:38:40.340 hero of the response for like a year and a half before they finally came out that it was him who

02:38:45.000 made it i mean just and and they have just at every turn protected power and again like with

02:38:52.260 the epstein thing man like you don't have to you only have to know like i don't know you just know

02:38:57.920 like even if you know like five or six things about it you're like okay this is some type of

02:39:02.400 huge conspiracy. You know, like, I don't know exactly what it is. And by the way, the files

02:39:06.500 being released did shake up my interpretation of the whole thing. I tweeted this once, but I kind

02:39:11.980 of, I mean, I was saying it tongue in cheek, but I kind of meant it sincerely that I used to

02:39:16.040 speculate that Jeffrey Epstein worked for Mossad. And after the files came out, it's looking a lot

02:39:22.840 more like the Mossad worked for Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, I did not think he was the Rothschilds

02:39:28.220 guy i didn't realize that you know and so like this thing is a gigantic conspiracy it's a it's

02:39:34.560 an interesting limited look into how power really works and and you know what i mean like what's

02:39:41.620 really going on looking through a stained glass window you don't get a clear picture but you see

02:39:45.720 the shapes and you realize this is not what i thought it was i actually came away from reading

02:39:51.200 a lot of the epstein stuff with a view of israel that was diminished i thought israel had less

02:39:56.780 power. Of course he was working with Assad. I said that and got called a Jew hater or whatever.

02:40:01.100 It was just true. So we're also working with CIA and intelligence services from around the world.

02:40:05.580 But what he really was doing was acting as an employee of others as a kind of communications

02:40:11.580 hub between the biggest stakeholders in the West. And so what you really saw was that governments

02:40:18.300 aren't in charge. There's no meaningful nation state with full sovereignty. That's just not a

02:40:23.820 thing there's a superstructure whose outlines i can't fully see or even partly see but it's

02:40:30.560 clearly there and it's not all being run from the levant by netanyahu's probably got iq of 110 he's

02:40:36.580 not a genius so like do you know what i mean yes yes 100 it's way bigger than israel israel is just

02:40:42.680 like a place to you know hide out if you've been accused of a crime get a passport do some money

02:40:46.300 laundering you know whatever it's a lot of things but it's not israel's not running the world yeah

02:40:51.640 no there's something that you're absolutely right there is there is uh there are power structures

02:40:56.140 that we do not fully know about that are way more important than a senator bought the biggest lie

02:41:02.700 of all which is a competition between nation states and you know what i mean like yeah that's

02:41:07.540 right ghana's got its own interest but so does singapore and china and india and it's like

02:41:12.040 yeah to some extent but that's not as soon as you have the free flow of capital a globalized

02:41:17.720 economy then you have a globalized

02:41:19.720 government it's just a fact and

02:41:21.720 by government I mean a governing

02:41:22.960 body which may be informal or

02:41:25.740 have blurry edges but it's still

02:41:27.280 totally real it's way more real than countries

02:41:29.920 yeah yeah how are countries

02:41:32.060 like that's like almost a medieval

02:41:33.700 view well even but countries

02:41:35.960 with kings and armies it's like

02:41:37.760 so dumb yeah no that's right and

02:41:39.840 and maybe it was you know

02:41:41.740 it's like it probably wasn't even true in

02:41:43.580 medieval times you know what I mean

02:41:45.280 It literally wasn't, but, like, after 1848, like, after you had, like, the creation of, like, real – the resemblance or the – maybe the fiction of nation states.

02:41:56.480 I mean, I think it's more complicated than I'm making it sound, but –

02:41:59.000 Yeah.

02:41:59.340 It's clearly not as simple as everyone else assumes.

02:42:01.900 Yeah, well, I know –

02:42:02.800 Countries actually in their own interests.

02:42:04.400 I mean, come on.

02:42:04.840 It's an – there's this really great book written by Murray Rothbard, who I mentioned earlier, called The Progressive Era.

02:42:11.320 And it's about, you know, it's about, I think that goes from, it might like Theodore Roosevelt for Woodrow Wilson, FDR.

02:42:20.860 And one of the things that they talk about is that there was, and this really is true, is that there were like, there were real people who really like meant well and were kind of, in my opinion, got it wrong.

02:42:33.420 But, you know, the kind of moderate socialist types or the progressives who who were like, hey, we're such a wealthy country.

02:42:40.180 We should have more of a managed economy so that we can make sure it's working for for everybody.

02:42:44.720 But really what ends up happening in the progressive era is then all the, you know, all all the titans of industry, all the robber barons, as they call it.

02:42:55.380 They all got on board with it and they went, oh, yeah, totally.

02:42:57.900 We should have a managed economy.

02:42:59.080 Yeah, absolutely.

02:42:59.800 We'll be doing the managing.

02:43:00.600 you know it was all it was like all the money interest that they supposedly wanted to

02:43:05.380 reign in were the guys who ended up getting control of the government anyway and so that's

02:43:09.920 it's black lives matter as sponsored by microsoft yeah that's right that's right

02:43:14.300 the gay pride parade has like a bank of america float coming through it and you're like i mean i

02:43:21.020 know there is some leftist out there who really believes in the gay pride parade but like something

02:43:25.140 bigger is going on than what you're paying no really it's it's liberation just trust me this

02:43:29.180 It's going to be liberation.

02:43:31.200 It's too ridiculous, man.

02:43:32.760 I know.

02:43:34.060 Well, good.

02:43:34.800 Thank you for everything you're doing.

02:43:36.680 And I'm sorry if that got, I never get emotional, but I'm sorry to start yelling at you.

02:43:40.800 But that's just stuff.

02:43:41.560 I enjoy it.

02:43:42.360 It's literally nothing makes me happier than to be held at in agreement.

02:43:45.200 You got me wound up.

02:43:47.200 Dave Smith, you're the best.

02:43:49.040 Thank you.

02:43:49.540 Thank you, sir.

The Tucker Carlson Show - April 01, 2026

Dave Smith： Mossad, WWII Myths, FBI Cover-Ups, and Trump’s Critical Next Move in Iran

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