The Tucker Carlson Show - Dr. Mark Hyman： Everything You're Eating Is Toxic, and Big Pharma Likes It That Way

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00:00:31.460 So, okay, Bobby Kennedy, your longtime friend,

00:00:35.440 looks like he's going to be the HHS secretary.

00:00:38.140 Assess.

00:00:39.580 Did you think that was going to happen in your lifetime?

00:00:41.900 Well, not in my lifetime, no.

00:00:43.180 Tucker, we're in this historic moment where, you know,

00:00:47.120 America's waking up to the fact that it's been the frog in boiling water,

00:00:51.580 slowly getting sicker and sicker and sicker,

00:00:54.540 bankrupting our country with almost $5 trillion in healthcare costs,

00:00:58.660 one in $5 of our economy.

00:01:01.320 80% of it or more is preventable.

00:01:03.220 99% of Medicare dollars are spent on preventable chronic disease.

00:01:07.200 And never this conversation has happened in the political discourse until now.

00:01:11.940 Which is a little crazy because you hear people talk about healthcare all the time.

00:01:14.940 Well, they talk about healthcare as a way of like limiting entitlements or Medicare for all.

00:01:18.200 Exactly.

00:01:19.000 Everybody's upset about healthcare on some level for some reason,

00:01:21.480 but I haven't heard anybody until recently in the public sphere address like why it's so expensive.

00:01:27.520 So the question I know, I'm a functional medicine doctor.

00:01:29.720 Yes.

00:01:30.140 My focus is on why.

00:01:32.420 What's the cause?

00:01:33.160 What's the root cause of the cause of the cause of the cause of the cause?

00:01:35.240 Welcome to the Tucker Carlson show.

00:01:47.600 We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else.

00:01:51.780 And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers.

00:01:55.020 We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly.

00:02:00.100 Check out all of our content at tuckercarlson.com.

00:02:03.280 Here's the episode.

00:02:03.980 And shouldn't that be every doctor?

00:02:05.880 Well, ideally, yes.

00:02:08.480 But I remember, you know, sitting in my office years ago and I had a diabetic patient come in.

00:02:12.100 I realized, you know, I can't cure diabetes in my office.

00:02:14.280 It's cured on the farm and the food we grow.

00:02:16.280 It's cured in the food manufacturing process.

00:02:19.220 It's cured by what people buy in the grocery store.

00:02:22.360 It's cured in the kitchen.

00:02:23.860 And so we really have to look at the root causes of our food system.

00:02:26.680 I said, why are my patients eating this food?

00:02:29.760 Well, it's because the food system.

00:02:31.220 Well, why do we have the food system we have and the way in which it's operating that drives this chronic disease epidemic, which now is the biggest killer on the planet and is caused by food?

00:02:41.640 Food has outpaced smoking as the number one killer in the world.

00:02:46.780 It has 11 million people a year.

00:02:48.680 11 million.

00:02:49.080 It's the biggest killer in the United States.

00:02:50.780 Why does that happen?

00:02:51.820 It's because our policies are driven in large part by industry, by the food industry, the ag industry, the chemical and seed companies.

00:03:01.580 And those are the companies that are profiting.

00:03:03.740 This is the biggest food, biggest industry in the world.

00:03:06.280 It's over $16 trillion when you aggregate all the food companies, the fast food companies, the agricultural chemical and seed companies.

00:03:13.420 And this is enormous force that's driving our political process.

00:03:17.840 And so a lot of the policies we have either by, you know, just kind of misalignment of our expectations and incentives of what happened or because of deliberate actions in the food companies have actually driven a food system that's making us sick.

00:03:32.080 And we have an illness industrial complex.

00:03:34.340 We have a system that's driving disease and everybody's profiting from it.

00:03:38.560 And no one's addressed that before.

00:03:39.720 And this is why we have the system.

00:03:41.000 So we're supporting commodity crops, wheat, corn, and soy that get turned into ultra-processed food, which is basically chemical science projects that our bodies are not used to.

00:03:48.900 They're not technically defined as food.

00:03:50.600 Food is something that helps, you know, nourish a human being towards life and growth.

00:03:55.680 These things don't.

00:03:56.440 They do the opposite.

00:03:57.160 They cause disease.

00:03:58.160 And so we sort of slowly get into this system where we're seeing an enormous rise in chronic diseases over the last 50 years.

00:04:05.200 You know, Tucker, when I graduated medical school, the cost for health care in America was half a trillion dollars.

00:04:09.420 Now it's almost 10 times that in my lifetime.

00:04:12.180 When I graduated from medical school, there was not a single state with an obesity rate over 15%.

00:04:16.120 Now there's not one under 30 and almost all are over 40.

00:04:19.960 42% of Americans are obese.

00:04:22.060 We've seen that.

00:04:22.660 In all 50 states.

00:04:23.740 In all 50 states.

00:04:24.380 Yeah, we see.

00:04:24.980 I mean, and you know what?

00:04:26.040 The highest diabetes mortality rates are in red states.

00:04:28.780 14 out of the 15 states with the highest diabetes mortality are red states.

00:04:32.200 So this is affecting everybody in America.

00:04:34.360 It doesn't matter whether you're red or blue or purple.

00:04:37.040 Well, biology is bipartisan, you know, heart disease, cancer, dementia, diabetes.

00:04:43.180 They don't know what, who you voted for.

00:04:45.160 So what radicalized me, what, so when I grew up, I'm a little younger than you, but you know, roughly the same generation.

00:04:51.500 I, there were no fat people where I grew up.

00:04:53.300 None.

00:04:53.780 Zero.

00:04:54.420 Yeah.

00:04:54.600 Affluent area, but still no fat, zero fat people.

00:04:57.800 And I always thought that it was like a failure of will.

00:05:00.680 It was a kind of sin.

00:05:01.780 Yes.

00:05:02.020 Yes.

00:05:02.100 And then I came just from my own experience to realize that if you just go about your life as the way Americans do, just eat what's presented to you. 0.98

00:05:11.860 Right.

00:05:12.380 And you don't make any effort to, to fight it.

00:05:15.440 Yeah.

00:05:15.740 If you just sort of all things being equal.

00:05:17.520 Yeah.

00:05:18.040 You're going to be like 70 pounds overweight.

00:05:20.000 100%.

00:05:20.400 That happened to me.

00:05:21.820 I was like, wow, I'm going to be super fat.

00:05:23.720 Yeah.

00:05:23.900 And if I don't really struggle.

00:05:26.300 Yeah.

00:05:26.660 All the time.

00:05:27.360 Yeah.

00:05:27.660 That's weird.

00:05:28.300 Well, it's, it's, we make the hard choices, the, the healthy choices and the easy choices, the unhealthy choices.

00:05:34.420 So that, well, that just, it made me think that actually people who are obese are not the, the perpetrators, but the victims of the crime.

00:05:43.400 This is really important, Tucker.

00:05:44.360 You just hit on something that is so critical, which is that we have blamed the victim for this problem.

00:05:50.100 I have.

00:05:50.460 It's your fault. 1.00

00:05:51.480 You're fat, you're a glutton, you're lazy. 1.00

00:05:53.740 Yes. 1.00

00:05:54.100 And it's your fault. 1.00

00:05:54.820 So just stop eating that crap and get healthy and you'll save America. 1.00

00:05:58.580 That's bullshit. 1.00

00:05:59.880 Okay. 0.99

00:06:00.360 So I kind of, I mean, obviously I feel better to hear that, but it's, I think that's true. 0.63

00:06:05.320 It's absolutely true.

00:06:06.020 The NIH did an incredible study where they took a group of people and they fed them for two weeks, a whole foods diet matched for protein, fat, carbs, fiber.

00:06:13.500 Then they fed them an ultra processed diet and they saw what happened to their biology.

00:06:16.960 The ultra processed food, which is what 60% of our diet is.

00:06:21.060 It's 67% of kids diet.

00:06:22.820 It's 73% of the food on our grocery store shelves.

00:06:25.300 When you eat that food, it dysregulates your appetite.

00:06:28.140 You eat 500 calories more a day in a week.

00:06:31.380 That's 3,500 calories.

00:06:33.180 3,500 calories equals a pound of weight gain in a year.

00:06:36.500 That's 52 pounds.

00:06:37.480 So if Americans are eating this food, which is everywhere, which is ubiquitous, which we're marketed to death on.

00:06:44.060 I mean, kids get targeted $14 billion.

00:06:49.140 The food industry spends on marketing junk food to kids.

00:06:51.740 They see an average of 30,000 ads a year.

00:06:54.020 You can talk to your kid breakfast, lunch, and dinner and snacks about healthy food and you're not going to be marketing.

00:06:59.660 And this, this to me is criminal.

00:07:01.160 Most countries have banned this.

00:07:02.880 Most countries don't allow this.

00:07:04.460 And for example, chili has gotten all the food marketing for kids off between six in the morning and 10 at night.

00:07:10.380 They have no more Tony the Tiger on Frosted Flakes, no more Toucan on the fruit loops.

00:07:16.300 You're saying Frosted Flakes are a highly processed food?

00:07:18.640 Of course they are.

00:07:20.420 I mean, I'm a cereal killer.

00:07:22.160 Tell the truth.

00:07:23.240 I am a cereal killer.

00:07:24.880 I think cereal is the worst thing ever invented for humanity.

00:07:27.540 It's basically 75% sugar.

00:07:29.320 It's sugar for breakfast.

00:07:30.260 It's dessert for breakfast.

00:07:31.180 That's not what we should be eating.

00:07:32.180 And so what's happened is there are ways in which we are making it so easy for people to make the wrong choice.

00:07:39.480 And when you're exposed to these foods, you're going to gain weight.

00:07:42.040 You're going to be dysregulated.

00:07:43.140 You're going to destroy your microbiome.

00:07:44.360 You're going to create inflammation.

00:07:45.240 You're going to drive heart disease, cancer, diabetes, dementia, autoimmune diseases.

00:07:48.760 All these things are coming at explosive rates.

00:07:51.100 And, you know, I've looked at the data.

00:07:52.640 And even though we're spending more and more, it would be fine if we were spending $5 trillion and the market was getting healthy.

00:07:57.380 It would be fine if we were spending $485 billion on drugs if they were working.

00:08:02.440 But, Tucker, the drugs that we're using for the disease that we have are not the right treatment.

00:08:06.840 The right treatment is changing what we're eating.

00:08:08.960 And if you look at heart disease, it's up 50%.

00:08:11.100 Cancer's up 30%, 60% higher in those under 50.

00:08:15.520 So we're seeing cancer rates rising in the young in rates we've never seen before.

00:08:18.760 Even though young people don't smoke cigarettes?

00:08:20.340 No.

00:08:20.660 It's the food.

00:08:21.380 Colon cancer is the biggest thing.

00:08:22.420 But it's just a little crazy.

00:08:23.640 Again, this is the benefit of being in your 50s because you sort of remember what the previous lies were.

00:08:28.400 But, like, if we get rid of smoking, not endorsing smoking, then cancer is just going to, like, cease to exist.

00:08:35.660 Well, certain cancers, like lung cancer and other cancers, have gone down.

00:08:39.180 But when you see cancer rates increasing in children, like, by 30%, you see autoimmune diseases up 100%.

00:08:45.340 You see mental health issues up 80%.

00:08:47.860 You see autism up 1,000%.

00:08:50.100 ADD up 200%.

00:08:51.240 Diabetes up 400%.

00:08:52.560 Alzheimer's up 150%.

00:08:54.140 So we are screwing up here big time by not dealing with the root cause.

00:08:58.080 And we're spending, on all those conditions, 200% to 300% more on drugs.

00:09:03.720 So we're almost, like, you know, we're increasing by one or twofold these diseases, and the drug use has gone up two or threefold.

00:09:09.620 And we're losing.

00:09:10.900 So if it was working, great, but it ain't working.

00:09:14.180 And what's happening is that now, most people don't realize it, but that one of every dollars of your taxpayer dollars goes to fund our healthcare costs in America.

00:09:22.240 Of that $4.9 trillion, which was half a trillion when I graduated medical school, that's paid for by the taxpayer, and it's mostly preventable.

00:09:31.360 We're probably adding $2 trillion to our federal deficit every year because of this.

00:09:34.540 And also, the amount of money we're spending is 40% of all healthcare bills.

00:09:39.640 So if you look at the total healthcare bill, when you add in everything in the government, not just Medicare, but any health service, the military, all federal employees,

00:09:46.960 all the programs that the government is funding around healthcare, it's 40% of the total healthcare bill in America is paid for by the U.S. government.

00:09:55.180 And we have enormous power to change how those dollars are spent and how chronic disease is addressed in this country.

00:10:01.340 And for the first time, take this on and not just try to find a pill for every ill, but to get to the root cause.

00:10:06.220 And it's really from changing our food system from field to fork, and it's addressing the conflicts of interest in government.

00:10:11.840 It's addressing NIH funding.

00:10:12.960 It's addressing what we pay for with food stamps.

00:10:15.740 There's so many areas that we have policy levers.

00:10:17.760 So before we get into that, let's just define a couple terms.

00:10:19.920 So when you say ultra-processed foods, can you be precise?

00:10:22.620 Yeah, for sure.

00:10:23.220 So the NOVA classification, and there's many different classifications for different kinds of food processing, and there's pros and cons with each one.

00:10:29.240 So there's no perfect system.

00:10:30.820 But the NOVA classification was developed by scientists in Brazil.

00:10:33.720 It's now their standard of care for their food programs and dietary guidelines.

00:10:36.560 So non-processed food is a tomato, an egg, an apple, an almond.

00:10:41.860 You know what that is, right?

00:10:42.600 But if you make almond butter, well, that's a little bit of minimally processed food.

00:10:46.160 If you make a can of tomatoes, that's minimally processed.

00:10:48.440 There's another level of processing that you use in cooking.

00:10:50.940 It's a little more sort of processing of things.

00:10:54.520 But it's not made from anything other than real food ingredients.

00:10:58.460 The fourth classification is ultra-processed.

00:11:00.880 And this is essentially where they take commodity crops, which are funded with our federal dollars, supporting farmers who are losing the game.

00:11:08.640 And that's corn, soybeans, and wheat.

00:11:09.900 Corn, soybean, and wheat.

00:11:10.980 And by the way, the farmers are suffering so bad.

00:11:13.180 You know, Tucker, there's a 350% higher rate of suicide in farmers than there are in the rest of the population.

00:11:20.780 There's $435 billion of farmer debt that they carry to support us.

00:11:25.400 And they're stuck between the crop insurance that the government's paying, the banks, which are providing them, you know, the loans, and the agrochemical and seed companies that are providing the fertilizer, the seeds, and the chemicals that they're spraying on the farm.

00:11:38.080 And they can't get out of that toxic loop.

00:11:40.500 And they're struggling.

00:11:41.720 Those rural communities are struggling so bad.

00:11:43.500 And that can be fixed. 0.99

00:11:44.760 And so when you look at – shit, I lost my train of thought. 0.99

00:11:48.760 Ultra-processed foods. 0.99

00:11:49.340 Oh, yeah, I was okay.

00:11:50.120 So processed is any food that's been changed in this conversation.

00:11:53.700 So what happens is they're growing these commodity crops that the government's basically supporting them funding of wheat, corn, and soy.

00:12:00.020 But you're not eating wheat berries or whole grain.

00:12:02.660 You're not eating true whole soybeans.

00:12:04.780 You're not eating just corn on the cob.

00:12:06.180 These are deconstructed in factories and science – basically science labs into their molecular components are torn apart and rebuilt into these chemically extruded food-like substances of all color, size, and shapes that are not by definition food.

00:12:22.640 If you look up the Webster's definition of food, it's not actually technically food.

00:12:27.280 And so what most Americans are eating is stuff that actually is harmful, that's causing disease, and killing people.

00:12:32.300 It's literally – think about it – the equivalent of two holocausts a year are caused by the food we're eating, according to the Global Burden Disease Study.

00:12:38.400 So how do you know it when you see it?

00:12:39.860 You said 70 percent of our grocery store offerings are ultra-processed food.

00:12:43.680 You know, the labeling, food labeling, is a big issue and is one of our key initiatives, I think, if we move forward in this administration.

00:12:49.420 It has to be addressed.

00:12:50.500 People need informed consent.

00:12:51.720 They need to be empowered with the right information.

00:12:53.540 They need to know what they're eating, whether it's good or bad for them.

00:12:55.900 And now you need to be a PhD scientist to read a nutrition label or read the ingredients and know what it means.

00:12:59.900 Right. So I avoid the Nilla wafers.

00:13:02.700 That's, I guess, an obvious one.

00:13:03.600 If you look at the ingredient list, it should be stuff you know.

00:13:06.620 It should say tomatoes or salt or –

00:13:08.880 So that's the measurement?

00:13:09.780 Yeah. If you see stuff like a butylated hydroxy toluene, probably not something you want to be eating.

00:13:14.940 And many of these chemicals that we use in America are outlawed in other countries, in Europe, in Singapore, and in many other countries,

00:13:22.100 these compounds that have been validated to show that how harmful they are to human beings have been removed from the marketplace.

00:13:28.920 And we should follow those standards here.

00:13:30.480 So labeling is really key, and we're going to work on that.

00:13:33.320 But right now, if you're just trying to figure it out, look at the ingredient list.

00:13:36.820 If there's stuff there that you wouldn't have on your kitchen counter or you wouldn't have in your pantry, don't eat it.

00:13:41.800 If it says maltodextrin, where's your maltodextrin jar in your spice jar?

00:13:45.740 Where's your butylated hydroxy toluene?

00:13:47.460 Do you sprinkle that on your salad?

00:13:48.840 No.

00:13:49.380 So if you don't understand it, don't eat it.

00:13:51.020 Yeah, I mean, things can have a long list of ingredients.

00:13:53.920 If you eat Indian foods, they have lots of spices.

00:13:55.820 That's fine.

00:13:56.320 It's a real food.

00:13:57.260 But if it's something that is in Latin that you don't understand, can't pronounce, or it has a health claim on the label, it's probably not good for you.

00:14:05.320 I mean, like, Lay's potato chips now says they're gluten-free.

00:14:08.100 I mean, that's ridiculous, right?

00:14:09.480 Oh, it's gluten-free. 0.95

00:14:10.300 It's healthy.

00:14:10.660 No, it's not.

00:14:11.300 You know, gluten-free cake.

00:14:12.400 Well, it's gluten-free because there's no wheat in it, right?

00:14:13.780 Of course, but Coca-Cola is gluten-free.

00:14:15.640 So, like, my rule is if it has a health claim on the label, don't eat it.

00:14:19.560 If there's a health claim on the label.

00:14:20.740 Yeah, but if it's low-fat, high-fiber, low-cholesterol, you know, if it's no sugar, if it's, you know, gluten-free, it's hiding something.

00:14:30.340 They're hiding something, right?

00:14:31.960 It's just food.

00:14:32.580 I mean, you know, tomato doesn't say gluten-free on it, right?

00:14:35.360 It just says tomato.

00:14:37.400 So that, I mean, that limits your options.

00:14:39.880 Well, you know what?

00:14:40.640 You're going to lose weight just from scarcity at that point.

00:14:43.300 You know what?

00:14:43.600 It's amazing.

00:14:43.960 I had this view that it was people's fault they were fat.

00:14:46.860 And I went down as part of this movie called Fed Up that I did with Katie Couric and Lori David about 10 years ago.

00:14:52.360 We went to South Carolina.

00:14:53.840 And I went to easily South Carolina, one of the poorest areas in America, one of the worst food deserts in America.

00:14:59.540 There's something called the Retail Environment Food Index.

00:15:02.080 How many fast food and junk food and bodegas there are compared to grocery stores?

00:15:06.600 They're like 10 to 1.

00:15:08.300 And this family of five lived in a trailer.

00:15:11.400 They were on disability and food stamps.

00:15:13.520 And they wanted to sort of get healthy.

00:15:15.100 And I asked them, why do you want to get healthy?

00:15:16.840 Because I'm like, why do you want to be in this movie?

00:15:18.660 They said, well, my dad is 42.

00:15:21.160 He has type 2 diabetes from the food he ate.

00:15:24.600 He has kidney failure.

00:15:25.680 He's on dialysis.

00:15:26.600 He's going to die unless he loses 40 pounds.

00:15:28.820 And we can't come to lose 40 pounds.

00:15:30.160 We don't know what to do.

00:15:31.500 The mother was well over 150 pounds overweight. 0.76

00:15:34.520 The son was 16 years old, almost diabetic.

00:15:37.400 50% body fat.

00:15:38.600 It should be 10 to 20%.

00:15:39.800 I went, I said, rather than giving a lecture about what to do and what to eat, I said,

00:15:44.280 let's go to your house.

00:15:45.560 Let's go shopping.

00:15:46.580 Get some simple foods that are inexpensive, that are whole foods, that are healthy to eat.

00:15:50.960 So we made turkey chili.

00:15:52.460 This was from Good Food on a Tight Budget, a guide from the Environmental Working Group.

00:15:55.820 I said, here's turkey chili.

00:15:57.280 Here's how to roast some sweet potatoes.

00:15:59.040 Here's how to fry asparagus.

00:16:00.200 Here's how to make a salad from not just iceberg lettuce, but some real lettuce.

00:16:04.040 Here's olive oil and bingard dressing.

00:16:05.540 Wait, iceberg is not real lettuce?

00:16:06.560 No, no, no.

00:16:07.120 It's pretty much a nutritionally vapid food.

00:16:11.420 Oh, really?

00:16:12.160 Yeah.

00:16:12.440 I mean, it's fine if you want to eat it, but it's not fully dense with phytochemicals and

00:16:17.520 nutrients.

00:16:18.960 And so we basically showed them, and I went through their cupboards, everything in their

00:16:23.060 cupboard.

00:16:23.420 They had low-fat this and cool whip they thought was healthy because it said no trans fats.

00:16:27.800 But the FDA, with the inclusion with the food industry, allowed a food to say no trans fats

00:16:33.200 and have less than half a gram per serving.

00:16:35.300 So basically, they're just duping the American public, and we need clear transparency and

00:16:39.800 information.

00:16:40.360 So they didn't know what they were eating, and everything was frozen or packaged or canned

00:16:44.500 or boxed.

00:16:44.980 They never cooked anything.

00:16:45.900 They didn't have cutting boards.

00:16:46.780 They didn't have knives.

00:16:47.580 They never cooked anything in their kitchen.

00:16:49.400 And so we made turkey chili.

00:16:50.360 We made this whole meal.

00:16:51.300 We sat down and ate it, and it was so delicious.

00:16:52.980 And the son goes, Dr. Hyman, do you like this to your family?

00:16:55.540 Every night, I'm like, yeah, I do.

00:16:56.680 And it wasn't hard.

00:16:57.760 It wasn't difficult.

00:16:58.480 It didn't take too much time.

00:17:00.160 And I said, listen, I don't know if you can do this, but here's this guide on how to

00:17:04.280 eat well for less.

00:17:06.020 Here's my cookbook on how to actually eat healthy.

00:17:09.640 And try it.

00:17:10.620 And on the plane, I sent them cutting boards and knives because they didn't have anything

00:17:15.200 to cut.

00:17:15.640 I mean, we were cutting with a butter knife, trying to cut sweet potatoes. 0.96

00:17:18.500 It was ridiculous. 0.73

00:17:19.280 Hard sweet potatoes. 0.96

00:17:20.220 They had no utensils in there.

00:17:21.260 Nothing.

00:17:21.920 Not for cooking, right?

00:17:23.440 And so the first week, the mother texted me back.

00:17:25.380 She said, Mark, we lost 18 pounds.

00:17:26.660 I'm like, amazing.

00:17:27.760 And a year, they lost over 200 pounds as a family.

00:17:29.620 The father lost 45, got a new kidney.

00:17:31.700 The mother lost 100 plus pounds.

00:17:33.520 The son lost 50, but he went to work at Bojangles and gained it back.

00:17:37.660 He said it was like putting an alcoholic to work in a bar.

00:17:40.420 And then he gained all the weight back.

00:17:43.220 And then he called me a few years later.

00:17:44.440 He said, Mark, can you help me?

00:17:45.140 I was like, yeah.

00:17:45.820 Oh, he said, Dr. Hyman.

00:17:46.640 I said, yeah.

00:17:48.500 And so I coached him and guided him.

00:17:49.960 He lost 132 pounds.

00:17:51.820 And he's the first kid in his family to go to college.

00:17:54.220 He wrote me a letter.

00:17:55.080 He said, Mark, can you write me a letter of recommendation for medical school?

00:17:58.180 And now he's a doctor.

00:18:00.280 And now he lost all that weight.

00:18:01.740 So what that taught me was that it's really about education, about information, about skills.

00:18:08.540 You know, I don't know if you know this story, but in the night.

00:18:10.600 Wait, but hold on, hold on.

00:18:11.680 There's, yes, but you can know the right path and not take it.

00:18:15.520 There's a compulsion attached to certain kinds of food.

00:18:18.960 A hundred percent.

00:18:19.880 And this is well-documented, Tucker.

00:18:21.760 It is well-documented.

00:18:22.420 Well-documented.

00:18:23.080 And the studies are published.

00:18:24.200 There was a large study published reviewing all the literature on food addiction.

00:18:27.280 And there's something called the Yale Food Addiction Scale, which is questions you can look at up online.

00:18:31.700 And you just answer the questions, and it tells you if you're a food addict, just so that you can do a questionnaire to tell if you're an alcoholic.

00:18:37.480 It's 14% of the adult population are alcoholics.

00:18:40.240 14% of people are food addicted.

00:18:42.180 And 12% of children are food addicted by the scientific definition of food addiction.

00:18:47.400 Not just, oh, yeah, this is addictive, but actually biologically addictive, measuring the things you need to measure to determine addiction.

00:18:54.720 And so if that's true, you know, you say compulsion, but it's really a hijack of our biochemistry.

00:19:00.800 So the food industry has designed foods to hijack our biology. 0.91

00:19:04.100 There's a book written by Michael Moss called Salt, Sugar, and Fact, where he interviewed 300 food industry executives and whistleblowers and scientists.

00:19:11.440 And basically they said, look, we have taste institutes where we hire craving experts.

00:19:15.680 These are their own terms.

00:19:17.120 To create the bliss point of food, which is the maximum lighting up of your brain.

00:19:20.700 And then we go for targeting marketing to heavy users.

00:19:25.920 So they're not going to get me to drink a can of Coke, but they're going to get someone who's already having Coke to try to drink a two liter bottle.

00:19:31.980 Right.

00:19:32.180 And they know how to do that.

00:19:33.340 And so the effects of these foods are so harmful on us and they know what they're doing and they actually designed them to be this way.

00:19:41.980 I mean, the tobacco companies bought a lot of the food companies back in the 70s, R.J. Arnabisco, Phil Morris Craft.

00:19:47.680 And they built this whole industry of ultra-processed food.

00:19:51.440 There's now 600,000 ultra-processed food products.

00:19:54.080 80% of them are full of sugar.

00:19:56.220 And they're the things that are driving most of the things that are wrong with America.

00:20:00.200 If you look at food, it's the nexus for everything.

00:20:02.940 One, obviously chronic disease, all the things we mentioned, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's, autoimmune diseases.

00:20:10.040 I mean, just digestive disease, all the things.

00:20:11.580 Depression, mental health now is linked to ultra-processed food.

00:20:14.460 There's really well-documented science on this, that these foods cause depression, anxiety.

00:20:19.600 So we have all these foods that are causing disease.

00:20:24.200 Then we have the economic burden, which we've talked about, almost $5 trillion.

00:20:28.140 We have the effect on national security because 77% of military recruits are rejected because they're unfit to fight.

00:20:33.360 So we have a national security crisis.

00:20:35.080 And 72% more evacuations were for obesity compared to war injuries from Iraq and Afghanistan.

00:20:41.700 Think about that.

00:20:42.240 You know, in a war, more soldiers were evacuated because of obesity than because of war injuries.

00:20:49.080 Academic performance, we're 30th something in the world in math and reading.

00:20:53.120 We are, we are, we're, we're, we're kids are suffering.

00:20:55.320 Our kids are, are on ADD medications. 0.94

00:20:57.640 So food makes you dumber, certain kinds of food?

00:20:59.360 100% makes you cognitively impaired, behavioral issues. 0.92

00:21:02.920 I mean, there was one study, Tucker, where they, where they took kids in juvenile detention centers.

00:21:07.080 And they gave them healthy food, swapped it out for the junk food.

00:21:10.620 97% reduction in behavioral issues and violence.

00:21:13.580 75% reduction in restraints.

00:21:15.640 And 100% reduction in suicides, which is the third leading cause of death in teenage boys.

00:21:20.960 This is, this is documented science.

00:21:23.000 This is not stuff I'm making up.

00:21:24.280 And it's, I wrote it in my book, Food Fix, which is really how to save our health, our economy, our communities, and our planet one bite at a time.

00:21:30.140 And it talks about the nexus of all these issues.

00:21:33.100 And then we, and then we have the effect on, on our, on our soil.

00:21:35.880 We've lost so much soil, carbon.

00:21:37.860 Soil has to be healthy to grow a healthy plant.

00:21:40.080 And a healthy plant is what creates healthy humans.

00:21:42.020 And the nutrients and plants have gone down by 50%.

00:21:44.380 So even if you're eating your broccoli, it's less nutritious than it was 50 years ago.

00:21:48.440 She got to eat twice as much.

00:21:49.800 That's right, baby.

00:21:51.300 Yeah, you do that.

00:21:52.440 I'm out.

00:21:53.200 The best Christmas presents are the ones that you would give yourself.

00:21:56.420 Well, this Christmas, we were recommending a gift that we do give ourselves.

00:22:00.140 Meat from Meriwether Farms in Wyoming.

00:22:03.140 So about six months ago, we'd interviewed a bunch of different health specialists, doctors, and nutritionists about food in the United States.

00:22:10.380 And the consensus is it's not very good, particularly the meat.

00:22:13.280 So we decided let's search across the country and find a source of good, clean, tasty meat.

00:22:20.200 Not all of it tastes very good.

00:22:21.480 The clean stuff, by the way.

00:22:23.060 So after trial and error, we settled on our all-time favorite, Meriwether Farms.

00:22:27.740 And we really settled on it.

00:22:29.440 So every time we have dinner with a guest before the show, which is often, we serve the exact same thing, steaks from Meriwether Farms.

00:22:36.060 And every single time, they've been excellent.

00:22:38.440 Every guest has loved them.

00:22:40.120 We eat them at home and at work.

00:22:41.920 So we can recommend this with total heartfelt sincerity.

00:22:45.540 And this year, Meriwether Farms makes it very easy for you to send their meat as a gift.

00:22:51.620 They've got all kinds of gift boxes.

00:22:53.660 Their famous steaks, including Wagyu beef, roasts, burgers, hot dogs, beef sticks, snacks, everything you could possibly want.

00:23:00.920 You can send it to your loved ones from Meriwether Farms.

00:23:03.740 The address, meriwetherfarms.com slash Tucker.

00:23:06.600 Use the promo code TuckerChristmas for a discount this year.

00:23:11.240 We eat it.

00:23:11.780 We recommend it.

00:23:12.620 Meriwether.

00:23:13.200 It's M-E-R-I-W-E-T-H-E-R farms.com slash Tucker.

00:23:19.300 Promo code TuckerChristmas at checkout.

00:23:22.200 Highly, sincerely recommended.

00:23:24.480 Hillsdale College offers many great free online courses, including a recent one on Marxism, Socialism, and Communism.

00:23:31.620 Today, Marxism goes by different names to make itself seem less dangerous.

00:23:36.000 Names like Critical Race Theory, Gender Theory, and Decolonization.

00:23:40.180 No matter the names, this online course shows it's the same Marxism that works to destroy private property

00:23:45.580 and that will lead to famines, show trials, and gulags.

00:23:50.000 Start learning online for free at TuckerForHillsdale.com.

00:23:55.540 That's Tucker, F-O-R, Hillsdale.com.

00:24:11.180 Tucker says it best.

00:24:12.780 The credit card companies are ripping Americans off, and enough is enough.

00:24:17.860 This is Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas.

00:24:20.560 Our legislation, the Credit Card Competition Act, would help in the grip Visa and MasterCard have on us.

00:24:27.760 Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee,

00:24:32.440 and they've been raising it without even telling you.

00:24:35.320 This hurts consumers and every small business owner.

00:24:38.180 In fact, American families are paying $1,100 in hidden swipe fees each year.

00:24:44.660 The fees Visa and MasterCard charge Americans are the highest in the world,

00:24:49.580 double candidates and eight times more than Europe's.

00:24:52.620 That's why I've taken action, but I need your help to help get this passed.

00:24:56.620 I'm asking you to call your senator today and demand they pass the Credit Card Competition Act.

00:25:03.400 Paid for by the Merchants Payments Coalition, not authorized by any candidate or candidates committee.

00:25:07.960 www.merchantspaymentscoalition.com

00:25:10.880 You've been prescribed medication for BPH or enlarged prostate.

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00:25:56.300 Most common side effects are temporary and can include discomfort when urinating,

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00:26:14.360 And then, you know, we have also the effect on biodiversity because of all the chemicals we're using.

00:26:19.320 We have 75% less pollinators.

00:26:20.900 No pollinators, you know, it's hard to have agriculture.

00:26:23.740 We have a 50% loss in bird species from the way we're growing food.

00:26:26.620 We have destruction of our waterways because we use fertilizer that runs off into the rivers and lakes.

00:26:31.840 And it causes eutrophication, which basically grows algae because of the extra fertilizer.

00:26:38.040 And then it sucks all the oxygen out of the water and all the fish die.

00:26:40.640 There's dead zones the size of New Jersey and the Gulf of Mexico.

00:26:43.220 There's 400 around the planet that feed half a billion people.

00:26:46.320 So this is all from the fertilizers, which uses actually 2% of the world's global energy to make fertilizer.

00:26:51.480 But you don't need to do that if you use regenerative agriculture,

00:26:53.720 which is what actually one of the things I think this new administration should focus on,

00:26:57.480 which is how do you fix the farming?

00:26:58.960 Because you've got to start at the field to fix food.

00:27:01.560 And, you know, I think Wendell Berry said it beautifully.

00:27:04.120 He's a poet and a farmer.

00:27:06.120 Amazing man.

00:27:06.500 Amazing man.

00:27:07.080 He said, we have a health system that pays no attention to food

00:27:09.700 and a food system that pays no attention to health.

00:27:12.560 We need to fix that.

00:27:13.640 So you've referred a couple times to the connection between what we eat and cancer rates.

00:27:19.440 Can you be a lot more precise about that?

00:27:21.580 Absolutely.

00:27:21.860 Yeah.

00:27:22.080 So the data is really clear.

00:27:23.040 If you want to scare people into eating better, cancer is a good way to do it.

00:27:25.800 Well, you know, cancer is on the rise and, you know, we've gotten-

00:27:29.680 Just can't get over that.

00:27:30.400 I thought we were going to defeat it with our war on cancer.

00:27:32.000 Yeah, well, that was Nixon.

00:27:32.880 He wanted to, but the problem is we're barking up the wrong tree.

00:27:36.660 If you look, there's a real clear data on two drivers of cancer.

00:27:42.100 One is food and particularly sugar and starch.

00:27:46.160 And two is environmental toxins, carcinogens, which are ubiquitous.

00:27:49.660 We're exposed to toxins everywhere and we can reduce those.

00:27:53.080 But the food part is really interesting because when you look at the growth of cancer cells,

00:27:58.520 they feed on sugar.

00:28:00.060 There's a whole metabolic theory of cancer where if you use a ketogenic diet, and this

00:28:04.120 is work being done in Columbia and by Sid Mukherjee and others, ketogenic diets as a treatment

00:28:09.140 for cancer to actually shut down the cancer cells because they can only feed on sugar.

00:28:14.680 We are like a hybrid engine.

00:28:16.200 We can go electric or we can go gas.

00:28:18.520 We can go carbs.

00:28:19.300 We can go fat.

00:28:20.600 Cancer only goes sugar.

00:28:21.500 So you starve the sugar and you kill the cancer.

00:28:24.480 So the amount of sugar and flour eating is about 152 pounds of sugar per person per year

00:28:30.160 and 133 pounds of flour.

00:28:32.360 That's a lot.

00:28:33.140 That's almost three quarters of a pound a day of sugar and flour for every American.

00:28:36.820 And what that does is it fuels the cancer cells.

00:28:39.280 And so pancreatic cancer, colon cancer, breast cancer, uterine cancer, prostate cancer, even

00:28:43.800 some lung cancers.

00:28:44.460 And the data is documented, go up with insulin resistance, go up with obesity, and go up with

00:28:51.320 diabetes and metabolic dysfunction.

00:28:53.540 Ninety-three percent of Americans, Tucker, are metabolically broken.

00:28:57.620 This is extraordinary from the American Journal of Cardiology.

00:29:01.360 And what this means is that we're somewhere on the degree of what I call diabetes.

00:29:05.840 Diabetes is pre-diabetes to type 2 diabetes.

00:29:08.320 And we cut off at pre-diabetes, but that's, you know, one in two Americans has pre-diabetes

00:29:13.320 or type 2 diabetes.

00:29:14.240 That's bad enough.

00:29:15.180 Thirty-eight percent of teenage boys.

00:29:16.800 I mean, when I graduated medical school, there was no type 2 diabetes.

00:29:19.800 There was no type 1 diabetes.

00:29:21.120 It was juvenile diabetes, which is an autoimmune disease, or adult diabetes, which is a food

00:29:25.680 born disease.

00:29:26.940 And so now we've changed the names to protect the guilty.

00:29:29.500 And so now we see kids.

00:29:30.940 Really?

00:29:31.420 Yeah.

00:29:31.700 Three.

00:29:32.960 The names were changed to mask the cause of type 2.

00:29:36.280 I mean, yeah, I mean, because kids were getting it.

00:29:38.420 So how do we call it juvenile diabetes if kids are getting type 2 diabetes as young as

00:29:43.000 two or three years old?

00:29:44.220 It's not their fault.

00:29:45.100 They're being fed, you know, soda.

00:29:46.580 And I once was working in an urgent care in California in an underserved community.

00:29:51.020 And this woman comes in with back pain. 1.00

00:29:52.240 She's got a baby in her baby carriage. 0.99

00:29:53.880 And he's drinking this brown liquid.

00:29:55.260 And I'm like, what is this?

00:29:55.920 Seven months old.

00:29:56.460 I'm like, what is that?

00:29:57.260 She says, Coca-Cola.

00:29:58.020 I'm like, why are you giving baby Coca-Cola?

00:29:59.720 She likes it.

00:30:01.160 I mean, this is what's happening.

00:30:02.060 And so we're turning our whole society into this metabolically broken society.

00:30:07.620 And this is the driver of all the disease we're seeing.

00:30:10.020 Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, dementia.

00:30:11.820 They're calling Alzheimer's type 3 diabetes because of how it's connected to sugar and

00:30:16.300 insulin resistance.

00:30:17.520 You know, I co-founded a company called Function Health, which allows people to get insights

00:30:21.260 into their own biology.

00:30:22.620 And what we're finding, Tucker, is that 96% of the people we're testing have metabolic

00:30:27.540 dysfunction.

00:30:28.780 96%.

00:30:29.340 96, yeah.

00:30:29.940 So how do you get insight into your own biology?

00:30:32.220 What does that mean?

00:30:32.620 So basically, you know, healthcare system is broken.

00:30:35.960 And I believe that, you know, I could work for another 50 years.

00:30:38.740 And maybe I'm wrong.

00:30:39.300 Maybe with this new administration, we'll leapfrog and things will change, which I'm very

00:30:42.560 hopeful for.

00:30:43.400 But I created a company with a number of other co-founders called Function Health that allows

00:30:47.820 you easy access to your own blood test.

00:30:50.740 It is simple, five minutes to sign up, 15 minutes to go into a quest lab to get your labs

00:30:55.620 drawn.

00:30:55.940 You get over 110 biomarkers or lab tests.

00:30:58.660 It gives you insight into everything that's going on in your body that you're not being

00:31:01.320 checked for at your regular doctor's office.

00:31:03.080 You get five times more diagnostics.

00:31:04.760 You look at your hormones, your metabolic health, your cardiovascular health, your nutritional

00:31:07.840 health.

00:31:08.620 I mean, your immune health.

00:31:10.620 We've seen 46% of Americans have some degree of autoimmunity, which is crazy.

00:31:15.340 It's one of the biggest cost drivers.

00:31:16.880 Whether it's thyroid autoimmunity or other autoimmunity or pre-autoimmunity, we're seeing 67% have nutritional

00:31:22.740 deficiencies.

00:31:23.340 And these are the lab reference ranges that are quest.

00:31:26.080 These are not what I would think are optimal.

00:31:28.480 So vitamin D, for example, should be over 50, 45, 50.

00:31:32.900 The reference range is 30.

00:31:34.180 But still, we've got a huge amount of people deficient at that level.

00:31:37.360 And when you're under 30, your risk of getting sick and dying of COVID is 70% higher.

00:31:42.280 If your vitamin D is over 50, your risk of death is zero compared to looking at these

00:31:45.920 relations. 0.99

00:31:46.020 We could just ask a dumb question. 0.99

00:31:47.340 No dumb questions. 0.99

00:31:47.900 So a basic question. 0.99

00:31:50.300 So you get blood.

00:31:51.800 Your company does this.

00:31:53.160 Maybe others do it.

00:31:53.960 But you get a blood test.

00:31:55.100 Yeah.

00:31:55.660 You get all these markers, all these measurements of what's in your blood.

00:31:58.340 How do you know what they mean?

00:32:00.060 Well, that's a great question.

00:32:00.920 So we really used the technology to help us build a database of the most up-to-date scientific

00:32:08.820 information informed by all the scientific literatures.

00:32:11.440 And you have a clear description of what every biomarker means.

00:32:14.300 And so if you're insulin or blood sugar or your cholesterol particles are abnormal or

00:32:18.320 you have positive autoimmune antibodies, we tell you what it means, why it happens, what

00:32:23.060 the root causes are, not necessarily just what traditional medicine thinks, but what

00:32:26.720 the new science thinks around root causes.

00:32:29.320 We give you all the self-care things you can do yourself to optimize your health.

00:32:33.540 So you can upgrade your biology with insights from scientific literature, from knowledge

00:32:37.600 experts.

00:32:38.140 We've brought in the top scientists and doctors to help inform the content.

00:32:41.980 So it's like having a thousand doctors in your pocket.

00:32:43.860 Remember the iPod was a thousand songs in your pocket.

00:32:46.240 This is a thousand doctors in your pocket.

00:32:48.080 And it gives you the ability to do self-care.

00:32:50.460 And like I said, diabetes isn't cured in the doctor's office.

00:32:53.220 It's cured in the kitchen.

00:32:54.640 And that's really what most chronic diseases can be fixed.

00:32:57.200 And I see this over and over after doing it for 30 years.

00:32:59.920 I've written almost 20 books.

00:33:01.300 And what I see is when people follow the guidance without having to go to the healthcare

00:33:05.220 system, they can correct these things and they can fix these things.

00:33:08.380 Really?

00:33:08.800 Yes.

00:33:09.460 It's quite amazing, Tucker.

00:33:10.960 And by these things, diabetes famously.

00:33:12.920 Heart disease reversible, Alzheimer's.

00:33:15.700 Now Richard Isakson has done amazing work showing how we can reverse Alzheimer's using

00:33:20.600 aggressive lifestyle interventions.

00:33:22.920 What?

00:33:23.840 Yes.

00:33:24.680 This is incredible data.

00:33:26.060 Well, I just want to speak up as a non-doctor.

00:33:27.800 We know for a fact that Alzheimer's is incurable.

00:33:30.140 Nothing can make it better.

00:33:31.540 Well, that's actually not true.

00:33:32.780 I know, but I've been told that a lot.

00:33:34.720 So I'm just kidding.

00:33:35.200 Of course, of course.

00:33:35.980 Because, you know, we've spent, this is a great example.

00:33:38.740 We've spent about $2 billion and over 400 studies trying to find drugs for Alzheimer's

00:33:44.380 and nothing has worked.

00:33:45.600 The drugs that are approved are extremely expensive, have marginal benefit, a lot of

00:33:49.200 side effects, and cost a huge amount of money and may delay your entry into a nursing

00:33:52.720 home by two or three months.

00:33:53.880 That's a win.

00:33:55.140 That's not very good.

00:33:55.920 Now, there's a couple of trials that have been done, the FINGER trial out in Europe and

00:33:59.300 the POINTER trial, which is emerging, that showed aggressive lifestyle intervention, diet,

00:34:03.860 exercise, managing stress, sleep, optimizing all your risk factors, was able to not just

00:34:09.000 slow the progression of Alzheimer's and dementia, but to reverse it.

00:34:12.400 This is published data.

00:34:13.520 This is not my opinion.

00:34:14.820 Richard Isakson also has published this data.

00:34:17.400 And now using biomarkers, and we can actually test with function, soon we'll be adding biomarkers

00:34:22.080 for Alzheimer's.

00:34:23.160 So now there's blood tests for Alzheimer's.

00:34:26.260 So you don't have to wait until you forget your keys.

00:34:28.220 And also for cancer, you're asking about cancer, we do a multi-cancer.

00:34:30.900 Wait, at what age is Alzheimer's detectable on a blood test?

00:34:33.560 That's a great question.

00:34:34.420 So on imaging, which is very expensive and difficult and not-

00:34:38.480 Brain imaging.

00:34:39.100 Yeah, brain imaging.

00:34:39.880 You can see the changes up to 30 years before you got Alzheimer's as a symptom.

00:34:43.660 With blood tests, it's not as far as that.

00:34:46.300 We're still figuring out what those times are.

00:34:48.780 But you can see these proteins start to develop in the blood that indicate there's something

00:34:53.860 happening.

00:34:54.380 And you can then intervene early.

00:34:56.320 And the thing about Alzheimer's is that if you intervene early, you can have an incredible

00:35:00.120 benefit to help slow the progression and delay it and actually reverse it.

00:35:04.000 And I've seen this in my patients.

00:35:05.200 I wrote a book about this, The Ultramind Solution, 15 years ago.

00:35:08.420 D.L.

00:35:08.600 Bredesen's written a book called The End of Alzheimer's, and documenting that we have to

00:35:12.440 get to the root causes.

00:35:13.520 Is NIH on this?

00:35:14.700 No, they're not on it.

00:35:15.580 And this is what drives me crazy.

00:35:16.960 I don't understand.

00:35:17.340 This is what I'm saying.

00:35:18.260 We've spent so much money.

00:35:19.480 We've gotten really no results.

00:35:20.860 Because I don't think you're a crackpot.

00:35:22.700 But if, I mean, here you are sitting on camera saying, no, Alzheimer's is reversible.

00:35:26.820 Yeah.

00:35:27.160 Like that.

00:35:27.580 Talk about a headline.

00:35:28.700 Why isn't that in the New York Times? 0.85

00:35:30.360 Good freaking question. 0.81

00:35:31.280 No, I'm serious, though. 0.98

00:35:32.100 Good freaking question. 1.00

00:35:33.200 So either you're crazy or they're dishonest. 1.00

00:35:35.340 Yeah. 0.99

00:35:35.940 I think it's a medical paradigm shift.

00:35:39.760 You know, I think most doctors are in a world as flat world.

00:35:43.820 They don't understand that the world is round.

00:35:45.880 We've shifted a paradigm scientifically from a disease-based diagnostic system to understanding

00:35:52.360 the body as an integrated ecosystem.

00:35:54.760 And so the work of people like Leroy Hood from the Institute for Systems Biology, his

00:35:58.880 Phenome Project, is mapping out how our understanding of disease is completely wrong.

00:36:04.380 It's based on labeling people according to symptoms and where it is in their body, rather

00:36:09.840 than on mechanisms and causes.

00:36:11.340 So I wrote a book called Young Forever, which is about longevity.

00:36:14.380 We talked about it, I think, last time I was on your show.

00:36:17.040 And in the book, I talk about the scientists who come up with this model of what are the

00:36:22.000 root causes of aging?

00:36:23.220 Because we think aging is just, it's going to happen inevitable.

00:36:25.800 We're going to get sick.

00:36:26.560 We're going to get older.

00:36:27.160 We're going to get frail.

00:36:27.760 We're going to get weak.

00:36:28.680 And they've identified the underlying biology behind that.

00:36:32.080 So if we cured heart disease and cancer from the face of the planet, we might extend life

00:36:35.760 five to seven years.

00:36:37.120 You can get the same thing with meaning and purpose or playing tennis.

00:36:39.220 But if you actually dealt with the hallmarks of aging, the things that really go wrong,

00:36:43.940 inflammation, mitochondrial injury, nutrition, and your microbiome, all the things that underlie

00:36:50.180 disease, you could extend life by 30 or 40 years, which means living to 120, which is

00:36:54.040 a crazy notion, right?

00:36:55.640 So we now understand biology in a very different way than we did before.

00:37:00.120 And it hasn't translated into the clinic.

00:37:02.000 And so why I co-founded Function Health with my co-founders was to help accelerate this

00:37:07.420 gap, to kind of leapfrog over this ossified system.

00:37:10.820 But we need to change.

00:37:11.400 But it's just kind of crazy what you're saying.

00:37:12.700 If you take three steps back, I mean, it's like the whole point of medicine, I presumed,

00:37:16.280 was to extend and improve life.

00:37:18.620 Yes.

00:37:19.740 Right?

00:37:20.000 To keep you from dying.

00:37:20.600 Yeah, doctors are healthier. 0.80

00:37:21.800 Exactly.

00:37:22.060 To make you happier.

00:37:22.700 Yeah.

00:37:22.800 And so if there is science that shows that that's possible and everyone's ignoring it,

00:37:29.240 then I'm trying not to use profanity, but like, what is that?

00:37:32.140 Yeah.

00:37:32.460 Well, it's a good question because we have an illness, medical, industrial, food,

00:37:37.440 ag complex that profits off of people being sick.

00:37:40.040 But so you write a book saying, or someone else, several doctors write books saying,

00:37:44.400 I can show that Alzheimer's is reversible.

00:37:46.620 Yeah.

00:37:47.660 And what is every other doctor in America, they just don't read the book.

00:37:51.360 They haven't heard of it.

00:37:52.040 Like what they just, it's like, that's kind of a provocative thesis.

00:37:55.260 Yeah.

00:37:55.400 Because I think of Alzheimer's is like AIDS in 1986.

00:37:57.640 Like it's the worst thing.

00:37:58.720 Oh, it's big.

00:37:59.060 And there's nothing you can do about it.

00:38:00.360 No, it's, it's, it's, it's, you remember that with AIDS?

00:38:02.140 100%.

00:38:02.460 It's scary as hell.

00:38:03.560 And the scariest.

00:38:04.420 Yeah.

00:38:04.680 And, and, and, and I can tell you that it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not my opinion.

00:38:08.760 I'm, you know, I was at Cleveland Clinic.

00:38:10.180 I worked with Marvin Sabah when he was there.

00:38:11.800 He was the head of the Dementia Research Center.

00:38:13.480 He understood this.

00:38:14.260 He understood these mechanisms, these biology, the sciences there, but there's no funding for it.

00:38:18.640 Because what are we talking about, Tucker?

00:38:20.040 We're talking about providing lifestyle interventions that they're intensive, that people need support.

00:38:24.660 They need to change their diet.

00:38:25.920 They need to exercise.

00:38:26.840 They need to optimize their sleep.

00:38:28.080 They need to manage stress.

00:38:29.400 They need to take the right nutritional supplements.

00:38:31.000 They need to modify their risk factors aggressively.

00:38:33.780 This requires a very different reimbursement system.

00:38:36.300 We don't have evidence-based medicine, Tucker.

00:38:38.660 We have reimbursement-based medicine.

00:38:41.220 Doctors do what they get paid to do, not what the right thing is.

00:38:44.580 The right treatment for diabetes is not more drugs or a Zempic.

00:38:47.940 The right treatment is diet.

00:38:49.820 You know, we're, we're, we're, so it sounds like doctors aren't really in control.

00:38:53.180 I mean, they're, they're doing the best they can, you know, they're responding to forces

00:38:56.560 bigger than themselves.

00:38:57.680 They, they, you know, the, we, medical education is a great example.

00:39:00.720 Like, you know, doctors graduating, you know, in the fifties or forties, we're dealing with

00:39:05.360 infectious disease and acute care medicine.

00:39:06.980 And we have the best acute care medicine system in the world, bar none.

00:39:10.820 If you're, if you have an acute infection, if you have sepsis, if you need to go ICU.

00:39:13.740 You're in a car crash.

00:39:14.440 You're in a car crash. 0.99

00:39:15.320 Damn right. 0.99

00:39:15.740 I'm going to the hospital. 0.98

00:39:16.940 But that system doesn't work for chronic illness.

00:39:20.440 And that's what we're facing now.

00:39:21.740 And so the 80% of the conditions that doctors are seeing are chronic diseases for which drugs

00:39:27.260 are not the right therapy most of the time.

00:39:29.780 They can be helpful as adjuncts, but the fundamental drivers of our chronic disease epidemic

00:39:34.360 is the food we're eating and, and also environmental toxins that are adding to that.

00:39:38.740 And when you add those two things together, it explains most of the chronic disease epidemic.

00:39:41.720 It's just, I mean, a lot of smart people you included, you're definitely one of the

00:39:46.540 earliest, but are saying varieties of what you're saying now.

00:39:49.740 So, I mean, it was, you know, 30 years ago or so that the Congress hauled the heads of

00:39:53.540 the tobacco companies, Reynolds and Philip Morris and Laura Lardin, humiliated them on

00:39:59.040 camera.

00:39:59.500 And like, you knew you were hurting people.

00:40:01.020 You did it anyway.

00:40:01.680 That's right.

00:40:02.480 Is that going to happen with Nabisco anytime soon?

00:40:04.680 I mean, there are, there are class action lawsuits that are being now raised around these

00:40:10.800 companies to look at holding them accountable for what they're doing.

00:40:13.340 And they know, and there's been FOIA requests and information requests that I actually wrote

00:40:17.540 about in my book that show their nefarious behavior.

00:40:19.820 For example, targeting minorities and targeting poor income, lower income people to focus

00:40:25.500 on buying more junk food.

00:40:27.260 Well, the food stamp program is a perfect example of that.

00:40:30.360 Yeah.

00:40:30.520 I mean, it's kind of crazy, Tucker, when you think about it, you know, when the American

00:40:33.100 taxpayer is paying through the nose for everything all the way along, the companies are privatizing

00:40:38.240 profits and we're socializing the costs.

00:40:40.740 So, so we basically fund the growth of commodity crops with $20 billion of subsidies in crop insurance

00:40:45.960 for corn, wheat, and soy, the farmers, which puts them in a really tight bond because they

00:40:50.340 can't change their system without support to changing to a more regenerative system that

00:40:54.540 they're going to make more money.

00:40:55.560 They're going to grow better food.

00:40:56.480 They're going to have, you know, better resuscitation of their rural economies, you know, and not

00:41:01.420 hopefully commit suicide at the rate they're doing.

00:41:03.500 We pay for that. 0.99

00:41:04.420 And then we pay for those foods for our SNAP program. 1.00

00:41:08.180 So we have about $125 billion in SNAP, which is our food stamp program.

00:41:12.660 It's Supplemental Nutrition Assistance, but there's no N in there.

00:41:15.500 It's just food security, which means calories.

00:41:18.040 So they, when you, when you get your EBT benefits in the beginning of the month, these food companies

00:41:23.240 know how to advertise in the bodega.

00:41:24.660 So they'll get your two liter bottle of Coke with your EBT and they put these giant ads

00:41:28.280 in there and they know exactly when they're getting their cards.

00:41:30.420 So we, we basically fund.

00:41:32.040 So you can buy Coca-Cola.

00:41:33.520 75% of the food bought on SNAP is, is junk food.

00:41:37.740 10% is soda.

00:41:38.880 So you think about $12 billion on soda, the Americans paying.

00:41:41.800 Why would soda be federal?

00:41:43.820 Why would, if we're giving out nutritional assistance to the poor, why would we pay for soda?

00:41:48.620 What a, what an obvious question, Tucker.

00:41:51.620 Yeah.

00:41:52.260 That's just crazy.

00:41:53.360 It's crazy.

00:41:53.840 It's crazy.

00:41:54.460 And we know.

00:41:55.060 If you wanted to hurt the poor, you would do that.

00:41:56.440 I mean, we know beyond a doubt.

00:41:58.180 And, you know, we can talk about ultra processed food.

00:42:00.240 There's arguments, this and that way and this way, but the food industry will say,

00:42:03.080 oh, it's, it's, we're going to take away people's choice.

00:42:05.280 We're going to take away convenience.

00:42:06.360 We're going to take away affordability.

00:42:07.660 We're going to make food less safe if we don't ultra processed food.

00:42:10.340 These are their talking points.

00:42:11.480 It's not all, it's all about calories.

00:42:13.320 It's not moderation.

00:42:14.100 So you can have, you know, soda as part of your diet, as long as you don't exceed your

00:42:17.400 calories.

00:42:17.840 It's basically your fault that you're fat.

00:42:19.800 So you fix it. 0.68

00:42:20.700 That's the messaging, right?

00:42:22.220 It's the messaging from every food industry sort of message from every professional association

00:42:27.000 message from the medical sort of.

00:42:29.360 But that doesn't mean that we have to pay for it.

00:42:31.060 Why are we paying for it?

00:42:31.780 Well, that's it.

00:42:32.260 So we pay, we pay for probably 30 billion or more servings of soda for the poor every

00:42:37.560 year.

00:42:37.900 And then we pay for-

00:42:39.400 Taxpayers are sending all this money to Coca-Cola.

00:42:41.400 The biggest profit center in America for Coca-Cola is 20% of their profits is SNAP food stamps.

00:42:49.620 Walmart gets, I don't know, something like, you know, 40 billion of that food stamp bill.

00:42:54.520 I mean, it's, it's crazy.

00:42:56.080 And, and we pay, we pay on the other-

00:42:58.440 Are those numbers real?

00:42:59.220 Yeah.

00:42:59.660 I can get you the, I can get you the Walmart numbers, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's

00:43:02.700 really high.

00:43:03.620 And then we, and then we, we have, uh, that's shocking to pay for Medicare and Medicaid on

00:43:09.020 the back end when people get sick from those foods.

00:43:11.460 And then we pay all the other costs.

00:43:13.280 So you pay for the Coca-Cola and the Azempa.

00:43:14.540 Yeah.

00:43:14.820 I mean, listen, the price we paid the checkout-

00:43:16.360 The Pop-Tarts and the insulin.

00:43:17.140 I mean, that's right.

00:43:18.160 The Pop-Tarts, the price you pay the checkout counter is not the true cost of food.

00:43:23.680 The true cost of food, the Rockefeller Foundation report is for every dollar you spend on food,

00:43:27.600 there's three dollars in collateral damage.

00:43:29.180 Yeah.

00:43:29.600 To health.

00:43:30.580 Pay for the crack and the rehab.

00:43:32.080 Yeah, exactly.

00:43:33.160 It's totally nuts. 1.00

00:43:34.140 Pay for the hookers and the divorce. 1.00

00:43:35.320 And we can fix this, you know, we can fix it. 0.90

00:43:37.000 We could fix this.

00:43:38.460 And, you know, Andy Harris, you know, who's a, who's a, uh, a congressman wanted to do a

00:43:42.940 simple pilot study, just a pilot study to see what would happen if we eliminated soda

00:43:48.260 from food stamp benefits in a couple of locations, just to, just to monitor the impact on the

00:43:52.940 health of those people.

00:43:54.520 And, and he couldn't get it through as a, as a pilot, not to change the entire USC policy,

00:43:59.300 just as a pilot study.

00:44:00.540 So imagine how anti-science this is.

00:44:03.080 This is truly anti-science.

00:44:04.440 So it's just, I really believe in naming and shaming.

00:44:07.540 It works.

00:44:08.200 Yeah.

00:44:08.340 Just call people out, you know, bring some sunlight in and let them defend it.

00:44:11.720 Exactly.

00:44:11.880 So I'd love to know who's behind that.

00:44:13.980 And by the way, I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to buy Coca-Cola.

00:44:16.680 I'm saying I don't want to pay for it.

00:44:17.920 Right.

00:44:18.640 That's fair, isn't it?

00:44:19.680 A hundred percent.

00:44:20.440 I mean, we, the government of the United States should not be funding the, the chronic

00:44:25.260 disease epidemic, which they currently are.

00:44:26.940 They are, they are, they are either by, uh, policies that were put in, you know, that

00:44:32.960 were innocent or by.

00:44:34.400 But it's so perfect.

00:44:35.380 It's like when I learned that we were funding ISIS in Syria, I was like, that's kind of perfect 1.00

00:44:40.740 actually, like both sides are taking American money.

00:44:44.000 Yeah.

00:44:44.480 Yeah.

00:44:44.800 It's, it's kind of crazy, but we, we have the opportunity to change that.

00:44:47.560 For example, WIC, which is women, infants and children's food program is based on only

00:44:52.560 allowing people to buy food.

00:44:53.680 That's going to be healthy for the mother and child.

00:44:56.000 Why not apply that to WIC?

00:44:57.800 You know, why not school standards being changed so that actually kids can have healthy food?

00:45:02.180 Well, I know that, that I think WIC is like the center of profit for the formula makers,

00:45:07.100 isn't it?

00:45:07.320 Yeah.

00:45:07.660 Well, that's true.

00:45:08.600 That's another problem.

00:45:09.520 But yeah, for example, in Chile, they outlawed formula marketing for kids.

00:45:12.380 They outlawed the advertising to kids.

00:45:14.400 They got rid of all the junk food in schools.

00:45:15.720 They put it front and back to labeling.

00:45:17.040 Why would the federal taxpayers be included, you included, be paying for baby formula?

00:45:22.120 Why would we be encouraging formula over breast milk? 0.99

00:45:24.160 Well, it's a huge industry.

00:45:25.820 I mean, it's all, it's, it's really, it's, it's, uh, you know, there's a group from the

00:45:30.520 WHO has, has put together some initial papers and it's coming out with a report next year

00:45:34.680 about the commercial determinants of health, which is how multinational and transnational

00:45:38.620 corporations in food and ag and alcohol, tobacco are essentially driving our chronic

00:45:44.440 epidemic and they're privatizing the profits, subverting public health and socializing the

00:45:48.700 costs.

00:45:49.060 And the governments are the ones who are struggling with this.

00:45:50.920 And so, so there are many other countries.

00:45:52.760 The governments are paying for it.

00:45:53.700 The governments are paying for it.

00:45:54.680 And they, and you look at the healthiest countries, they're the ones like Japan and Singapore and

00:45:58.500 Spain and Italy.

00:45:59.340 They actually have policies that are protecting their citizens, that are educating them about

00:46:03.040 food, that are not allowing the same.

00:46:04.160 How about just don't pay for it?

00:46:05.180 I mean, let's, we can start there.

00:46:06.280 So Christmas is coming and winter is coming and that's the perfect combination for Cozy Earth.

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00:47:07.480 The credit card companies are ripping Americans off, and enough is enough.

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00:48:43.220 So we were in a meeting here at TCN the other day and I looked around the room and every

00:48:50.340 other person had a kind of ruddy vitality.

00:48:55.240 Pink cheeks, alertness, bright eyes, full mental acuity and a cheerfulness you could almost smell.

00:49:03.520 And I asked, why does everyone look so good?

00:49:07.880 And part of the answer, of course, is they like what we do for a living.

00:49:11.300 It's really interesting.

00:49:12.240 We think it's important.

00:49:13.620 But another reason everyone looks so good is because they'd all had a great night sleep.

00:49:20.820 I'm not making this up.

00:49:22.500 Almost everybody here uses a new sleep technology from a company called Eat Sleep.

00:49:28.520 They sent it to us and everyone here loves it.

00:49:32.000 It's called the pod.

00:49:33.400 It's a high-tech mattress cover, effectively, that you add to your existing bed.

00:49:37.220 You don't need a new bed or anything like that.

00:49:38.940 You just throw this over what you have.

00:49:40.860 What it does is adjust the temperature of your bed, warmer or cooler, depending on what you want.

00:49:48.080 And it maintains an ideal sleeping environment all night long.

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00:49:55.860 needs change.

00:49:57.140 An 8th sleep automatically keeps things exactly where they should be in the sweet spot through

00:50:03.280 the entire night.

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00:50:18.680 It seems to be doing that in our office.

00:50:20.900 So it learns and adapts to your sleep patterns over time and automatically adjusts temperatures

00:50:25.600 throughout the night through each phase of sleep.

00:50:28.580 And it does this independently for each sleeper on either side of the bed.

00:50:34.200 That's pretty cool.

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00:50:59.780 Better sleep today and look great in your morning meetings as our guys do.

00:51:05.540 And it does raise some pretty interesting questions.

00:51:13.580 The smartest thing I've heard this year, I think it's a common phrase now, is that the

00:51:16.900 point of the system is its outcome.

00:51:18.580 So if you're wondering about motive, look at what the system produces, and that describes

00:51:22.780 the motive.

00:51:23.400 Yeah.

00:51:24.120 Right?

00:51:24.540 We don't have to guess.

00:51:27.020 So if governments are making their citizens more unhealthy, I think we can assume that they

00:51:34.560 want that outcome.

00:51:35.360 No, they don't.

00:51:36.060 They don't.

00:51:37.280 This has been the frog in boiling water slowly that's hit them so fast.

00:51:40.800 Because, yeah, bring all these fast food companies, bring all these American companies

00:51:45.200 in to help us with our food and nutrition.

00:51:47.260 Let's get fast food everywhere.

00:51:48.460 It's kind of the Americanization of the world, right? 0.66

00:51:51.300 We basically created the worst diet on the planet and exported it to every country in 0.96

00:51:54.720 the world.

00:51:55.440 Oh, I've noticed.

00:51:56.200 And we see now, even in the developing world, they call it the double burden of disease.

00:52:02.300 Chronic disease and infectious disease.

00:52:03.820 So they're dying of diabetes and tuberculosis.

00:52:06.120 They're dying of diabetes and malaria.

00:52:08.220 I hate to say it, but I've traveled a lot of countries this year, and the best food I

00:52:11.480 had in any country was in a country under such severe U.S. sanctions that no U.S.

00:52:15.760 companies could operate.

00:52:16.180 There you go.

00:52:16.960 I'm not going to name the country, but I'm just saying, I don't want to be too controversial.

00:52:20.560 Yeah.

00:52:21.020 And it makes me sad.

00:52:21.660 You controversial, Tucker?

00:52:22.660 Well, it makes me sad.

00:52:23.720 I mean, I'm-

00:52:24.440 You always call her in the lines.

00:52:25.340 I think of myself as a truly a loyal American.

00:52:28.920 I'm all in on America.

00:52:29.780 I'm never leaving.

00:52:30.300 But to go to a country whose food is amazing, best I've ever had in my whole life.

00:52:34.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:35.440 And it also happens that that country has no American food of any kind because it's not

00:52:39.160 allowed.

00:52:39.620 Yeah.

00:52:40.420 Maybe there's a connection?

00:52:41.600 Maybe there's a connection, yeah.

00:52:42.760 So exactly.

00:52:43.640 And so these countries have been unwittingly participating in what they thought was growth

00:52:49.980 and economic development.

00:52:51.200 But what it's done is sicken their populations.

00:52:52.940 And so now a lot of these countries are standing up.

00:52:56.740 Like the UK just banned advertising of junk food.

00:52:59.780 France has clear labeling on their front of package to make it really clear what you're

00:53:02.880 eating.

00:53:03.740 You know, Chile and South America, you go there and there's been just warning signs on the

00:53:07.300 front of labels.

00:53:08.000 They've done all these policies that have actually been studied and worked.

00:53:10.580 So we have cover in the United States.

00:53:12.660 Why should we be allowing things in the United States that we don't, these other countries 1.00

00:53:16.160 have determined are insane?

00:53:17.320 Well, he's paying for it.

00:53:17.860 Let's just stop paying for it.

00:53:18.960 You know, people are into some weird self-destructive behavior, not interested in rooting it out

00:53:24.140 or showing up at your house, making sure you're not doing it.

00:53:26.180 No, no, no.

00:53:26.680 People should be informed.

00:53:27.340 But I definitely don't want to pay for it.

00:53:28.760 No, we should.

00:53:29.120 Why should I have to pay?

00:53:29.780 Well, people should be informed and we should be not having to pay for it.

00:53:32.100 Yes.

00:53:32.600 Yeah.

00:53:32.920 And you know, government procurement, $166 billion the government spends on food for military,

00:53:38.080 for correctional facility, for schools, for everything.

00:53:40.800 When you look at the fat bill, do you know how much that could change the food system

00:53:43.960 if we said, based on these set of nutritional principles, which are, I think, well accepted

00:53:50.360 in the nutritional science community of being, what is food?

00:53:53.380 If we just followed that and didn't pay for all the junk food and ultra processed food,

00:53:57.760 we just took that out, it would change the food system in America because all the industry

00:54:01.920 would change.

00:54:02.460 If you take $166 billion out of the food economy and say, we're only buying healthy food from

00:54:07.220 farmers who produce healthy food, it's going to change everything from field to fork. 0.74

00:54:10.380 These are simple things that the government can do that's easy.

00:54:14.620 Yeah, because they control it.

00:54:15.860 So people, I know, I've known a lot of people go to prison more now than ever and they get

00:54:20.240 fat in prison, a lot of them.

00:54:21.560 Oh yeah.

00:54:22.120 Is that, I assume that's because the food is fat.

00:54:23.900 Of course.

00:54:24.360 I mean, in prisons, they did another study I mentioned about the juvenile detention

00:54:27.140 centers.

00:54:27.640 They swapped out prisoners' food for healthy food and they found there was a 56% reduction

00:54:32.600 in violent crime in the prisons and an 80% reduction if they added a multivitamin.

00:54:36.200 So there's so much nutritional deficiencies.

00:54:37.960 In countries like Japan, they put people on a super healthy diet in prison and all their 0.98

00:54:42.400 violent behavior goes down.

00:54:44.080 Pretty amazing.

00:54:44.700 Really?

00:54:45.120 Yeah.

00:54:45.440 It's really interesting.

00:54:46.360 Yeah.

00:54:46.480 Their diet's totally different.

00:54:47.560 They put on like a macrobiotic, like very kind of like healthy diet that gets them completely

00:54:52.320 reset.

00:54:52.820 And we know the mental health crisis also.

00:54:55.160 Why don't we do that since it's a captive population?

00:54:58.300 We should.

00:54:58.860 We can.

00:54:59.240 I mean, the problem is this is a very, I don't want to sound conspiratorial, but I'm

00:55:05.300 telling you there is a very loose organization of industries that are working together to

00:55:12.500 keep the system status quo.

00:55:14.120 They don't want changes in our agricultural subsidies.

00:55:16.180 They don't want changes in farming practices.

00:55:18.080 They don't want changes in how we fund SNAP.

00:55:19.780 They don't want changes in how we reimburse healthcare.

00:55:22.480 They don't want changes in our food labeling.

00:55:24.320 They don't want changes in ingredients that are in our food.

00:55:26.520 You know, this is stuff that's so entrenched that it's essential for their profits and

00:55:32.180 their success.

00:55:32.760 But I mean, prisons, if you think about it, have been used as, because it is captive,

00:55:36.860 the population of a prison, they've been used as, you know, testing populations for 0.99

00:55:41.680 syphilis and vaccines and LSD and all kinds of horrible shit. 0.98

00:55:47.060 And you feel so sorry for the men who had to endure that. 0.99

00:55:49.640 Why not use prisons?

00:55:50.340 I'm not sure the LSD was bad for them, but.

00:55:51.860 Well, you know, Whitey Bulger was at Alcatraz, Whitey Bulger, the head of the Winter Hill 0.85

00:55:58.580 gang in Boston, a mass murderer.

00:56:00.620 And he got dosed really hard with LSD at Alcatraz in the early 60s and wound up effectively

00:56:08.220 a serial killer.

00:56:09.060 And his brother didn't.

00:56:10.120 Oh, geez.

00:56:10.620 And wound up the most powerful politician in Massachusetts.

00:56:12.940 That's incredible.

00:56:13.580 So I'm just saying, I bet, you know.

00:56:14.800 Maybe flip them.

00:56:15.840 But anyway, here's the point.

00:56:18.180 Why not use prisons as a kind of federal prisons, as a national test for the outcome of the

00:56:25.860 diet you're suggesting?

00:56:26.500 Yeah, you could do that.

00:56:27.240 I mean, you could do that.

00:56:28.060 I mean, there were studies that were done in mental institutions years ago, but there's

00:56:31.200 ethics.

00:56:31.920 And so informed consent.

00:56:33.740 Yeah.

00:56:34.120 Not feeding people Oreos is unethical?

00:56:36.180 Like, what?

00:56:37.160 Yeah, yeah.

00:56:37.780 Well, I think you're right, Tucker.

00:56:40.240 I mean, the ethical considerations are really around informed consent in medicine.

00:56:43.620 We gave them syphilis. 0.83

00:56:45.180 Okay, it's okay to take the Oreos away.

00:56:47.260 Now there's rules about this.

00:56:48.360 No, and I'm just saying, like.

00:56:49.820 But we could.

00:56:50.320 We could.

00:56:50.760 We could get informed consent.

00:56:52.040 We could ask them.

00:56:52.640 You pay them 15 cents an hour to work?

00:56:54.280 I mean, they're prisoners.

00:56:55.060 They can't vote.

00:56:55.700 They can't own firearms.

00:56:56.620 They can't.

00:56:57.080 Yeah, yeah.

00:56:57.720 No.

00:56:57.960 See their wives? 0.93

00:56:58.860 Like, everything about it is horrible.

00:57:00.700 Why wouldn't you use the opportunity to improve their health?

00:57:03.320 I 100% agree.

00:57:04.360 And I think we need to do that in every sector of society where the government has a hand.

00:57:09.460 School lunches, the military, all our federal food programs.

00:57:13.260 These are easy interventions, but the food industry blocks it by huge lobbying efforts

00:57:18.020 in Washington.

00:57:19.320 You know, in my nonprofit, Food Fixed Campaign, which is really about educating and advocating

00:57:23.640 for policy change to really improve the health of Americans, we met with over 150 senators

00:57:27.600 and congressmen, both sides of the aisle, and everybody seems to get this issue, and they're

00:57:31.520 not hearing about it, and they're starting to hear about it because people like me are

00:57:34.400 talking about it.

00:57:35.020 But I'm just one guy.

00:57:36.100 I have a little nonprofit.

00:57:37.020 I'm not funded by industry.

00:57:38.440 I don't have any, like, conflicts of interest, and I'm just trying to, you know.

00:57:40.880 What are the big lobbies?

00:57:42.100 Everyone says the big food lobby.

00:57:43.820 What companies is that?

00:57:44.580 I mean, you've got the American Peppers Association.

00:57:46.800 You've got, you know, all the, you know, the pharmaceutical lobby groups.

00:57:50.280 You've got all the ag lobby groups.

00:57:52.200 I mean, collectively, they're the biggest group of lobbyists in Washington, exceeding

00:57:56.480 all the other lobby.

00:57:57.660 And they're very powerful.

00:57:58.880 And they control a lot of what happens in Washington.

00:58:01.120 I detail a lot of this in my book, Food Fix, where, you know, congressmen, you know, are

00:58:05.780 funded by Coca-Cola or these big companies.

00:58:07.800 And they fund both sides.

00:58:08.660 They fund everybody.

00:58:09.560 Of course they do.

00:58:10.060 You know, and so they've got a lot of it locked up, and they're miseducating.

00:58:14.140 It's the misinformation and miseducation of our policymakers and government officials

00:58:20.800 because they're only hearing one side of the story.

00:58:24.360 They come in with their briefing books, with their scientific papers, with their justification,

00:58:27.760 with the regulations written, with the legislation written, and they literally give it to them.

00:58:31.200 I've been in congressmen's center's office and said, this is amazing, Mark.

00:58:33.680 Could you write the legislation for me?

00:58:35.180 I'm like, what?

00:58:37.180 I don't know how to do that.

00:58:38.580 I mean, I have people on my team who probably do that.

00:58:41.120 But it's like, it was sort of a startling kind of revelation that people in Congress

00:58:46.120 need help, and they need guidance, and they need direction.

00:58:48.660 And they're overwhelmed.

00:58:49.400 And they're overwhelmed, and they're good people, and they want to do the right thing,

00:58:51.780 and they're not hearing the other side of the story.

00:58:54.480 And so when you lay it out for them, they're like, I was with Senator Boosman from Arkansas.

00:58:58.440 He's a great guy.

00:58:59.080 And he's like, yeah, I'm seeing the changes in my rural community.

00:59:01.860 I'm seeing what's happening on the farms.

00:59:03.020 I'm seeing the degradation of these, and I'm seeing the processed food.

00:59:06.700 I'm seeing what affects my population.

00:59:08.920 And he gets it, and he wouldn't let me.

00:59:10.820 I was off for 45 minutes.

00:59:12.000 You usually get like a senator pops in high, five minutes in and out.

00:59:14.900 But it was an incredible conversation.

00:59:16.780 I've seen this with Randy Fenstra, who's really interested in regenerative agriculture.

00:59:19.320 I've seen this, you know, on the Democratic side with people like Cory Booker and Richard

00:59:24.100 Neal and James McGovern, who are trying to advocate for food policies.

00:59:28.280 So Roger Marshall and Cassidy, both doctors, fully in on this stuff.

00:59:33.580 So there's so many allies in Congress on both sides of the aisle that are sort of sick and

00:59:37.200 tired of how this thing is going and realize we can't continue to do what we're doing.

00:59:40.620 And I think, Tucker, we have a historic opportunity with Trump and Bobby Kennedy, and Dr. Oz now

00:59:46.720 is the head of CMS, and other people, I think, hopefully, Casey Means will be surgery general.

00:59:50.980 I hope so.

00:59:51.680 I hope so.

00:59:51.820 I think we can have a shift in the thinking and educate America, just like we did with

00:59:57.080 smoking, and we can win.

00:59:58.460 It's just so funny that the, I mean, whatever, life is irony.

01:00:01.520 Everything is irony.

01:00:02.680 But the Big Mac president is ushering in.

01:00:07.100 It's just crazy.

01:00:07.820 No, I'm sorry.

01:00:08.560 Of all people.

01:00:09.500 But it makes sense, right?

01:00:10.640 It's incredible.

01:00:11.380 Johnson was one of the biggest bigots.

01:00:12.720 He signed the Civil Rights Act.

01:00:13.760 Oh, that's fair.

01:00:14.320 Reagan was the most staunch anti-communist.

01:00:16.340 He's the one who ended the Cold War.

01:00:17.720 So there's a historical fact.

01:00:18.880 No, that's very deep.

01:00:19.800 What you're saying is deep.

01:00:20.780 No, that is the way life is, actually.

01:00:22.400 It's the opposite of what you expect.

01:00:23.920 Yeah.

01:00:24.360 And I've talked to Trump about it, and he means it.

01:00:27.500 Yeah.

01:00:27.600 You know, he's, I would say Bobby Kennedy is one of the nominees he's proudest of.

01:00:32.160 Yeah.

01:00:32.300 He hasn't backed down at all.

01:00:33.940 I think Bobby's going to get confirmed.

01:00:35.560 I want to ask you about the thing for which Bobby is most famous.

01:00:39.380 But I don't want to say the word because YouTube will monetize this.

01:00:43.340 You're not even allowed.

01:00:44.100 Even now.

01:00:44.920 Yeah.

01:00:45.540 YouTube, biggest company, most powerful company in the world, Google, has an AI program that

01:00:50.560 will literally knock out your video if you use the V word.

01:00:53.820 Yeah.

01:00:54.180 So let's call it The Shot.

01:00:55.420 The V word. 0.82

01:00:55.940 If you don't mind.

01:00:56.320 The V word. 0.82

01:00:56.980 The V word. 0.82

01:00:57.880 Not the good V word.

01:00:59.020 The bad.

01:00:59.440 The bad V word.

01:01:00.420 So Bobby Kennedy became infamous 15 or 20 years ago when he wrote a piece in Rolling

01:01:08.000 Stone suggesting that, I mean, he just got exiled from America, basically, for suggesting

01:01:13.580 that The Shot might cause really bad outcomes, health outcomes in children.

01:01:19.120 Yeah.

01:01:20.700 I never hear anybody bring that up anymore.

01:01:24.040 Yeah.

01:01:24.160 Have we accepted that there may be truth in that?

01:01:25.700 Well, listen, I think we get sort of religion around certain topics in medicine, and I don't

01:01:31.320 understand this.

01:01:32.920 Medicine is supposed to be about science.

01:01:35.040 Yes.

01:01:35.480 That's what I thought.

01:01:36.640 It's about asking questions.

01:01:37.960 Yeah.

01:01:38.260 And to say a subject is settled and we need no more science doesn't make any sense.

01:01:44.080 Like, aspirin's a great example.

01:01:45.180 We thought aspirin was the greatest thing on the planet Earth, that everybody should get

01:01:48.560 an aspirin to prevent a heart attack.

01:01:50.060 But as we started to look at the data very carefully, we saw that, gee, no, actually,

01:01:54.860 it increases the risk of certain problems like brain hemorrhage and gastrointestinal

01:01:59.040 bleeding and death.

01:02:00.220 And 30,000 people die every year from taking aspirin for prevention of heart attacks.

01:02:03.940 What?

01:02:04.620 Yeah.

01:02:05.100 I didn't even know that.

01:02:05.980 Right.

01:02:06.600 I thought you were supposed to take a baby aspirin every day. 0.92

01:02:08.680 Well, that's right.

01:02:09.300 But it causes bleeding.

01:02:11.440 It thins your blood.

01:02:12.580 That's why it's good for preventing heart attacks, but also it can make you have a brain

01:02:15.300 hemorrhage or a gut bleed.

01:02:17.200 And so now the guidelines have been revised and it's not recommended for everybody, only

01:02:21.800 certain high-risk populations, right?

01:02:24.400 And yet we change our mind based on the data.

01:02:27.380 We look at the science.

01:02:28.640 We update our data.

01:02:30.760 The V word is, you know, listen, I'm just going to say it. 0.99

01:02:33.540 I think vaccines are one of the greatest advances in medicine and history.

01:02:37.780 They have eradicated many serious diseases, polio, smallpox.

01:02:42.080 You know, I mean, I was in Haiti during the earthquake and I was working at the internal

01:02:46.840 hospital there and there was a guy with tetanus and I'd never seen a full-blown case of tetanus

01:02:51.200 before.

01:02:51.560 It was one of the worst things I'd ever seen.

01:02:53.020 What is it?

01:02:53.460 I don't know.

01:02:53.820 Tetanus is, you know, when you step on a rusty nail.

01:02:55.700 Right.

01:02:56.000 Lockjaw, they used to call it.

01:02:56.780 Yeah, lockjaw.

01:02:57.340 But you like basically go into total paralysis.

01:03:00.400 Like your body's in, it's like one big giant spasm and you can't get out of it.

01:03:04.480 And you like basically have to give them IVs and oxygen and hope they survive.

01:03:08.920 And there's tetanus antitoxin, but it's, it was the worst thing I'd ever seen.

01:03:13.100 So, so vaccines have a role.

01:03:15.160 And, and the problem is, is that.

01:03:17.640 A tetanus shot is a vaccine.

01:03:18.840 Yeah.

01:03:19.060 A tetanus shot's a vaccine.

01:03:20.160 I didn't know that.

01:03:20.960 Polio is a vaccine. 0.95

01:03:22.080 Of course.

01:03:22.240 Well, famously.

01:03:22.980 Yeah.

01:03:23.340 But a tetanus shot is a vaccine.

01:03:25.460 Yeah.

01:03:25.660 It's a vaccine.

01:03:26.380 Yeah.

01:03:26.480 You're supposed to get every 10 years.

01:03:27.520 Yeah.

01:03:28.100 And, you know, diphtheria.

01:03:29.380 So there's some really good things we've done in medicine to reduce a lot of the childhood illnesses and childhood deaths.

01:03:35.460 Yes.

01:03:35.900 Measles.

01:03:36.600 This is, this is, vaccines aren't a problem.

01:03:38.780 Problem is that we need to study long-term safety and efficacy of these drugs like any other drug.

01:03:45.400 You know, one of the problems with medicine is that, and I think this was a huge failure during COVID.

01:03:50.340 And I think Bobby was right about this.

01:03:51.640 You know, we, we, we did not actually give the American public the benefit of the doubt that they were smart enough to understand the nuances around this treatment.

01:04:01.300 So they said, vaccines are safe, they're effective.

01:04:03.900 Well, not really.

01:04:05.520 Like any drug, it's sort of safe and it can be effective, right?

01:04:08.660 Aspirin is effective for certain things, but it also has side effects, right?

01:04:11.620 And so vaccines work to prevent the, the mortality rates and reduce death rates and reduce the severity of infection, but it didn't prevent infection.

01:04:23.940 And that was very clearly early on.

01:04:25.640 And the, there's this concept called sterile immunity versus disease immunity.

01:04:30.380 Sterile immunity is you get a measles shot when you're a kid, you never need it again.

01:04:33.720 You're, you're sterile, you're never going to get measles.

01:04:35.980 The flu vaccine, you have to get every year because it, you basically don't get permanent immunity.

01:04:41.940 You get sort of a reduction in the risk of disease.

01:04:44.980 That's what the COVID vaccine was.

01:04:46.960 So it reduced the risk, but it didn't prevent you getting it, didn't prevent transmission.

01:04:51.180 And it also has side effects.

01:04:53.480 And we were pushing on young kids and now the data is really clear.

01:04:56.040 It caused increased myocarditis, heart inflammation.

01:04:58.880 So what we need is just good science.

01:05:00.980 And I think this is all Bobby's asking for.

01:05:02.420 He's not anti-vaccine.

01:05:03.520 He's been vaccinated.

01:05:04.700 I've been vaccinated.

01:05:05.440 We vaccinate our kids.

01:05:06.780 I think it's propaganda that say that he's an anti-vaxxer.

01:05:09.200 That's really just a way of dismissing him.

01:05:11.200 But I think we have to understand that we just need to do good science.

01:05:13.760 And that's all he's asking for.

01:05:14.760 He recently come out and said, he's not taking new vaccines.

01:05:17.440 He's pro-vaccines.

01:05:18.620 He wants good science.

01:05:19.720 And I think that's what we need around everything.

01:05:21.860 Well, I mean, and it's, whether it's Alzheimer's or there's diabetes or whether it's, whatever

01:05:25.200 it is, we're studying the wrong things.

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01:07:16.740 Why do you think it became verboten to ask any questions?

01:07:20.580 About this one category of medicine?

01:07:22.820 That's a very good question.

01:07:23.840 I don't know the answer to that.

01:07:24.940 There was a religious fervor that scared me.

01:07:27.280 I didn't understand.

01:07:27.880 I have exactly the same view that you just articulated on the subject.

01:07:31.000 I'm not a zealot either way.

01:07:33.220 But the zealotry was 100% on the other side, and it was really scary.

01:07:36.540 It ended friendships.

01:07:37.260 It divided families.

01:07:38.400 It was like, I've never seen anything like it.

01:07:40.320 What was that?

01:07:41.160 I think as a public health effort, I understand the public health mission, which is to sort of work on the health of the entire population.

01:07:51.500 And so you're willing to kind of simplify things and put out messaging that may not be completely scientific in order to get people to do stuff, right?

01:07:58.800 Which is what happened during COVID.

01:07:59.760 Oh, you lie to manipulate people?

01:08:01.240 Well, that, yeah.

01:08:02.800 You can't do that.

01:08:03.900 No, but I think we need informed consent.

01:08:07.540 I mean, listen, when you prescribe a drug as a doctor, you're supposed to say, if I give you this drug, here's the benefits, and here's the risks.

01:08:13.860 You know, it's really clear we're supposed to do that in medicine.

01:08:17.840 It's called informed consent.

01:08:18.680 We're required to do that.

01:08:19.220 Yeah, and we should have informed consent so people understand, here's the benefit, here's the risk, and you can decide for yourself.

01:08:25.240 But why would, I mean, of course, everything became, in the politically charged year of 2020 election year, became super partisan.

01:08:32.860 Okay, so there's that.

01:08:33.880 Yeah.

01:08:34.280 But it was deeper than that, because Trump was out there.

01:08:36.960 He was pro-vaccine.

01:08:37.960 Yeah.

01:08:38.140 And then the Biden people, of course, are pro-vaccine, but the media became, like, I've never seen that level of intolerance.

01:08:46.740 No. 0.98

01:08:47.000 Like, anybody who asked any question was not just wrong or misinformed, but evil and deserving of death. 0.99

01:08:52.300 No. 0.94

01:08:52.760 As a doctor, is that the view of doctors? 0.94

01:08:56.020 Like, anyone who questions this should die?

01:08:57.500 Yeah, it's quite astounding, Tucker. 0.98

01:09:00.060 It's one of those areas in medicine where it's become a religion, and you can't question it.

01:09:04.000 But why, was that the case when you were in medical school?

01:09:06.280 Not really.

01:09:06.900 Like, I just, I don't understand what happened.

01:09:09.180 I think there was a sense that, you know, we're being not given the whole story and the whole truth.

01:09:16.580 And I think this is true.

01:09:17.480 And I think most people don't know this.

01:09:18.540 Well, whenever they attack you for asking questions, then you can be certain you're not getting the whole story.

01:09:22.780 Absolutely.

01:09:23.160 And people have attacked me.

01:09:24.640 There's this group called the American Council on Science and Health, which has gone after me.

01:09:28.680 And they're basically funded by Monsanto and pesticide companies and pharma and tobacco companies and the fast food companies.

01:09:37.300 And so they, you know, like, I'm pretty vocal about this.

01:09:39.320 They sound like a fun group.

01:09:40.500 Yeah.

01:09:40.740 And they sound great.

01:09:41.760 And this is one of their strategies.

01:09:43.400 So the way in which the food, and you asked how this has happened.

01:09:46.020 It's not by accident.

01:09:46.980 So the food industry and the egg industry have deliberately set up a series of actions and strategies across all sectors of society to take over the narrative.

01:09:56.000 One, they fund most of the research.

01:09:58.400 So there's 12 times as much research, quote, on nutrition from food industry.

01:10:03.000 In other words, the American Beverage Association does a study on artificial sweeteners.

01:10:06.500 They find they're fine.

01:10:07.380 And they do a study on soda.

01:10:09.260 They find it doesn't cause obesity, right? 0.99

01:10:10.720 Like, that's kind of garbage science. 0.81

01:10:12.320 And there's 8 to 50 times more likely to show a benefit for their product if they're funding it. 0.94

01:10:16.760 So they take over the research infrastructure.

01:10:18.900 They take over the professional associations.

01:10:21.040 The American Heart Association receives $192 million a year from pharma and food.

01:10:25.980 American Diabetes Association, Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, all the major professional associations, which we think are independent, giving us independent advice, are funded and co-opted by these.

01:10:36.320 And I mean, it's astounding.

01:10:38.180 What about the autism groups?

01:10:40.980 Because I always wondered, there's been this massive increase in autism.

01:10:43.520 I don't know what's causing it.

01:10:44.460 It's not genetic.

01:10:45.220 No.

01:10:45.340 That's not true.

01:10:45.880 It's not because we've broadened the classification of autism.

01:10:48.300 No, no, no. 0.94

01:10:48.320 That's just silly.

01:10:48.880 It's not better than standard detection. 0.65

01:10:49.540 It's 1,000%.

01:10:50.280 I mean, I-

01:10:50.540 Right, okay, right.

01:10:51.220 So, and it's a life-ending crisis.

01:10:53.740 Yeah, it went from 1 in 2,500 to 1 in 26 kids, 1 in 39 kids.

01:10:57.160 Of course, we all know people who have autistic children, and it really is a tragedy. 1.00

01:11:01.200 So, there are all these autism groups, and they're incredibly pompous and self-righteous. 1.00

01:11:06.880 Yeah.

01:11:07.480 But all of them have sort of shot down the idea that, like, we should ask any questions

01:11:11.560 about where this comes from.

01:11:12.980 Well, not all of them.

01:11:13.820 Maybe some are asking.

01:11:14.560 The big ones have.

01:11:15.400 Yeah, of course.

01:11:16.000 I know someone who worked at one, and I was like, what's causing this? 1.00

01:11:18.040 Shut up! 1.00

01:11:18.640 That's right. 1.00

01:11:19.100 It's like, you work in an autism group.

01:11:20.780 Why aren't you interested?

01:11:21.860 Exactly.

01:11:22.440 I mean, this is-

01:11:22.820 So, who's funding them?

01:11:24.020 Do you know?

01:11:24.900 We should take a closer look.

01:11:25.480 I don't know.

01:11:26.240 But there's autism groups.

01:11:28.100 And then they fund, not only professional associations, not only they fund nutrition research, but they obviously

01:11:33.200 also create these front groups, like the American Council on Science and Health, and Crop Life,

01:11:37.860 and all these nice-sounding things.

01:11:40.440 American Council on Science and Health sounds very legitimate.

01:11:42.800 It sounds legitimate.

01:11:43.440 And you look at these guys.

01:11:44.140 How these guys were in jail.

01:11:45.260 Are you against Science and Health?

01:11:46.420 No, but one of these guys was in jail for Medicare fraud for $8 million. 0.62

01:11:50.980 You look at these guys, they're criminals.

01:11:52.440 Well, he knows a lot about science and health.

01:11:53.720 Yeah, exactly.

01:11:54.660 Are you serious?

01:11:55.820 I'm serious.

01:11:56.780 And then they fund social groups.

01:11:58.540 So, get this, Tucker.

01:11:59.860 They fund the NAACP and the Hispanic Federation.

01:12:02.420 Oh, I'm aware of this.

01:12:03.400 And I was-

01:12:04.720 So, Al Sharpton, that's where he got his suits taken.

01:12:06.800 That's right.

01:12:07.320 And I was with Bernice King in Atlanta.

01:12:12.020 Nice woman.

01:12:12.480 We were going to show the movie, Fed Up, which was about childhood obesity,

01:12:15.840 and how our sugar industry was causing this, and our food industry was causing this. 0.92

01:12:20.400 And she said, nonviolence is just not nonviolence to others, but it's nonviolence to yourself.

01:12:25.700 And I think this is important, and I want to show this film in the King Center.

01:12:29.240 So, I said, great.

01:12:30.480 And so, a few days later, she called me back and said, Mark, can't do it.

01:12:33.020 I said, why?

01:12:34.080 Coca-Cola funds the King Center.

01:12:36.300 And obesity is not a problem in the black community.

01:12:38.900 You know, if you look at African Americans,

01:12:42.240 Americans in the 60s, they were healthier than white Americans.

01:12:44.880 If you look at that movie, Amazing Grace with Aretha Franklin-

01:12:47.320 Oh, I know.

01:12:47.860 It's a great movie.

01:12:48.900 She was thin, and every black person in that congregation in Oakland in 1970 was thin.

01:12:53.840 And now, 85% of African American women are overweight. 1.00

01:12:56.680 This is-

01:12:56.980 It was LA, I think, not Oakland.

01:12:58.880 Really?

01:12:59.200 Was it LA?

01:12:59.840 Okay.

01:13:00.240 When she recorded the gospel album?

01:13:01.960 It was, yeah.

01:13:02.480 It was the Amazing Grace.

01:13:03.880 I don't remember.

01:13:04.760 It was a great documentary.

01:13:06.280 Oh, it's the most incredible album, too.

01:13:08.600 So, they fund social groups to help oppose things that they don't want, like soda taxes.

01:13:12.920 Or they fund, like, the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, which is one of the premier

01:13:16.360 children's hospitals in the world.

01:13:17.660 CHOP was going to actually come out in favor of a soda tax, but Coca-Cola gave them $10 million,

01:13:23.360 and they pulled back.

01:13:24.660 This is the kind of stuff they do.

01:13:25.720 So, they fund science, they co-opt professional associations, they fund, you know, the social

01:13:33.940 groups, they create front groups, and they are huge lobbyists.

01:13:36.620 And so, they're very deliberate in how they do this.

01:13:38.800 In fact, it was illegal.

01:13:40.620 They got a huge lawsuit against it from the Secretary of the Attorney General of Washington

01:13:45.220 State because they colluded, a lot of the food industry groups colluded, to fight against

01:13:49.640 GMO labeling, which they wanted to do in Washington.

01:13:52.880 Now, America and Syria are the only countries that don't allow GMO labeling.

01:13:57.640 It's a pretty good company.

01:13:58.780 Syria's got bigger problems. 0.55

01:13:59.940 China and Russia, you know, are transparent about this, and they're not known for their

01:14:02.640 transparency.

01:14:02.780 They're not allowed in Russia.

01:14:03.820 Right.

01:14:04.140 Yeah.

01:14:04.380 And so, basically, they funded this campaign for a ballot initiative to defeat the GMO labeling,

01:14:09.780 and they won, but they did it illegally, and they spent huge amounts of money doing

01:14:13.240 it, and they were then fined and had the biggest fine ever, which was trivial for them.

01:14:17.680 It was like, I don't know, $18 million or something that they had to pay, but it was trivial.

01:14:20.700 But they got a big slap on the wrist for doing this, but they won.

01:14:24.360 Same thing in California, when Jerry Brown was governor, and he's Governor Moonbeam.

01:14:27.920 I mean, he's as left as you can get, you know, and there were soda taxes being passed all

01:14:32.040 around California, and the soda industry got together, American Beverage Association.

01:14:35.780 They said, we're going to create a ballot measure that's going to require a two-third

01:14:39.060 majority for every vote in any state or local government for anything.

01:14:44.020 It would basically paralyze the government of California if they pass this ballot measure.

01:14:48.260 And they were funding it with millions of dollars, had nothing to do with food.

01:14:52.360 They said, look, Jerry, we're going to pull this ballot measure, but you've got to put

01:14:55.560 in a permanent ban on soda tax in California.

01:14:57.640 And he did.

01:14:59.120 That's what's going on behind the scenes.

01:15:00.620 That's how this works.

01:15:01.160 There's a permanent ban on soda taxes?

01:15:02.620 In California.

01:15:03.680 There's no permanent ban on any other kind of taxes.

01:15:06.200 So that's also what bothers me, is I do think there should be one standard for everyone

01:15:10.440 in every category, because we're all American citizens.

01:15:13.120 Nobody should be exempt from taxes.

01:15:15.400 No.

01:15:15.620 Very much including college endowments.

01:15:18.180 And nobody should be exempt from lawsuits unless all of us are.

01:15:20.880 And so I don't understand.

01:15:21.900 Like one of the reasons orthopedic surgeons don't do knee replacements drunk is they can

01:15:24.780 be sued for it.

01:15:25.620 Oh, yeah.

01:15:26.080 But drug makers for a certain category of drug have blanket immunity.

01:15:31.160 Where do I get?

01:15:31.660 Do you have blanket immunity granted by Congress?

01:15:33.340 Because I don't.

01:15:34.160 I wish.

01:15:34.720 That would be nice.

01:15:35.420 How do we get that?

01:15:36.200 So I don't, but okay, I don't understand the thinking.

01:15:38.220 Give me $20 million.

01:15:39.060 I'll donate.

01:15:39.540 Maybe I can get that for you.

01:15:40.160 No, but like this is absolutely nuts.

01:15:42.520 It is.

01:15:43.160 How does one category of product have blanket immunity from law, statutorily blanket immunity

01:15:50.460 and they're like, well, we provide a vital service?

01:15:54.020 Well, everybody who works thinks he provides a vital service.

01:15:57.080 Right.

01:15:57.300 Who doesn't think he's providing?

01:15:58.160 You think you're providing a vital service?

01:16:00.080 I do.

01:16:00.560 I mean, you want it.

01:16:01.300 I don't get it.

01:16:01.860 I mean, you want it to incentivize innovation.

01:16:03.440 You want it to incentivize science.

01:16:04.900 You want to, you know, accelerate things that may be really necessary in ways that, you

01:16:09.260 know, are probably not possible within a normal course of how we develop drugs.

01:16:13.780 Well, then let's do tort reform. 0.99

01:16:14.920 Right.

01:16:15.560 But what happened with vaccines, you know, some of them were not that profitable and some

01:16:21.240 are very profitable.

01:16:22.240 But what's happened is that in 1980, I think it was 86, the U.S. government indemnified vaccine

01:16:30.100 makers.

01:16:30.620 Oh, I know.

01:16:31.180 So that meant that they could make vaccines and never be sued.

01:16:34.000 And they created a vaccine court to deal with vaccine injury.

01:16:36.540 And they paid over $5 billion in vaccine injuries.

01:16:39.040 So the drug companies paid over $5 billion?

01:16:41.040 No, no, no.

01:16:41.500 The U.S. taxpayers paid.

01:16:42.680 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:16:43.640 So you're saying that the drug companies can never be sued, but if they are sued, taxpayers

01:16:47.920 have to pay the damages.

01:16:48.820 That's right.

01:16:49.160 Federal vaccine court.

01:16:50.260 So that's the biggest scam I think I've ever heard of, ever.

01:16:53.620 I mean, in a way, I understood the thinking behind it because, you know, you want to incentivize

01:16:57.480 rapid development of drugs that aren't going to be that profitable, right?

01:17:01.220 So, but it turns out that many of these drugs are profitable, like rotavirus, which is a

01:17:05.420 new vaccine.

01:17:06.000 And when we were kids, there were like eight shots.

01:17:08.520 Now there's like 72 shots you get.

01:17:10.160 And many countries, for example, don't allow, for example, hepatitis B at birth is a vaccine

01:17:15.040 we're recommending in America.

01:17:16.940 And it's what you get from IV drugs or sex.

01:17:19.880 Now, I don't know any newborns that are doing IV drugs or sex. 0.90

01:17:23.520 And, you know, if you are-

01:17:24.820 Probably not a lot.

01:17:25.340 Probably not a lot.

01:17:26.060 But in many countries, don't actually have it on the vaccine schedule.

01:17:29.060 You know, we do.

01:17:30.180 And so with rotavirus, for example, they profit $100 billion.

01:17:33.880 It's $100 billion profit for them.

01:17:35.840 That's nuts, right?

01:17:36.800 Do you have any idea why the trial bar, which has always been one of the most powerful lobbies

01:17:42.740 in Washington, and definitely the most powerful in the Democratic Party, haven't said anything

01:17:46.460 about this?

01:17:47.220 I don't know.

01:17:47.720 So their argument has always been, look, if you want safer goods and services, you have

01:17:52.960 to apply a penalty to people who are negligent.

01:17:55.080 Yeah.

01:17:55.260 I mean, that's their argument.

01:17:57.080 It's not a crazy argument, by the way.

01:17:58.520 No, no.

01:17:59.260 And Coca-Cola, by the way, for all its faults, can be sued if they poison you with a can of

01:18:03.660 Diet Coke.

01:18:04.240 That's right.

01:18:04.620 So they don't.

01:18:05.380 Right.

01:18:05.780 So why wouldn't that?

01:18:06.920 And by the way, if you're saying, well, I can't make enough money selling my product,

01:18:11.380 why don't you convince people to buy it then?

01:18:13.020 Just convince people that it's a good product and they'll probably pay for it.

01:18:16.580 Yeah.

01:18:16.980 No?

01:18:17.380 I understand that. 0.97

01:18:18.140 I mean, it wasn't a completely stupid idea, but it's ended up being a bit of a disaster. 0.91

01:18:21.660 And I think all we need is better science, good science. 0.92

01:18:24.720 Well, if you have a government that's like, you must use this product, you have, you've

01:18:28.440 got no choice, we'll punish you if you don't use the product, and then you get injured

01:18:31.200 by the product.

01:18:31.860 Yeah.

01:18:32.440 Most people got injured, like had no idea they could be injured because nobody told them.

01:18:35.440 Yeah.

01:18:35.560 They do get injured.

01:18:36.420 Yeah.

01:18:36.660 You're told to shut up and just suffer or die in silence, and then you've got no recourse? 0.94

01:18:40.580 Mm-hmm.

01:18:41.340 And then the people who sold you the product at gunpoint become billionaires?

01:18:45.460 That seems like a very flawed system.

01:18:47.000 It's a bit messed up.

01:18:48.360 I mean, it's a bit messed up.

01:18:49.820 Kind of a perfect system for the drug people.

01:18:51.480 But it just sort of underscores the bigger problem in our society, which is that we really

01:18:56.680 have multinational and transnational corporations profiting from creating more sickness.

01:19:03.020 You know, the food companies create illness, the pharma companies pay for the illness, drug

01:19:06.820 treatments, and the whole thing just works for them.

01:19:09.380 But we have to change this.

01:19:11.220 And we can, as a federal government, change the policies.

01:19:13.680 Because other countries have done this.

01:19:15.000 They've been successful.

01:19:16.460 They're winning the war on this problem.

01:19:18.020 And we need a focused effort.

01:19:20.000 And I think there's so many things that could be done in this administration.

01:19:22.880 Okay.

01:19:23.060 So tell us about Bobby Kennedy, who you've, for viewers who haven't followed this for a

01:19:26.860 long time, you've known him for a long time.

01:19:28.240 You wrote a book with him.

01:19:29.060 He's not just like some guy you met at a cocktail party.

01:19:30.800 No, no, no.

01:19:31.160 You know him really well.

01:19:32.220 Yeah.

01:19:32.420 You told me at dinner last night you were just staying with him.

01:19:34.560 Yeah.

01:19:34.740 Do you want to say where you're staying?

01:19:36.860 Because I thought it was hilarious.

01:19:37.740 Oh, we were staying at Dr. Oz's house.

01:19:39.280 Okay.

01:19:39.840 So we got Mark Hyman, Bobby Kennedy.

01:19:42.900 Were the Meanses there too?

01:19:44.300 Callie was there, yeah.

01:19:45.000 Yeah.

01:19:45.720 Callie, Means, and Dr. Oz all staying together.

01:19:47.900 Yeah.

01:19:48.200 Yeah.

01:19:48.440 It was a party.

01:19:48.780 So it's a conspiracy of light, I would say.

01:19:51.420 But anyway, but you know Bobby really well, personally and professionally.

01:19:54.960 What do you think his strengths are going into this job?

01:19:57.160 I think he has the right focus and perspective, which is that we have a crisis, which is our

01:20:04.400 chronic disease epidemic.

01:20:05.520 It's been neglected by scientific community, predominantly.

01:20:09.360 It's been neglected by the federal government.

01:20:11.520 It's bankrupting us.

01:20:13.180 It's causing destruction of our environment, of our social structures, of our academic competitive

01:20:18.840 and global competitiveness, of our military.

01:20:20.720 And he understands that these needs to be addressed.

01:20:22.700 And so I think that's a huge strength.

01:20:24.100 But I think he wants to focus on rooting out corruption, rooting out conflicts of interest

01:20:28.960 in agencies.

01:20:30.240 I think he wants to implement policies that are going to transform the health of America.

01:20:34.260 And we're working on a whole series of different ideas.

01:20:36.840 But I think the NIH needs to be reformed.

01:20:39.600 They should basically fund nutrition research around chronic disease, which they don't.

01:20:44.160 Very small amount of money goes to that.

01:20:45.560 Really?

01:20:45.620 They still don't.

01:20:46.440 Like 5%, but it's 80% of the diseases we're seeing.

01:20:49.140 And they should have a mandate, for example, that all medical schools and academic institutions

01:20:54.520 that receive federal funding from any source should have a nutrition curriculum and that

01:20:58.580 it should be mandated.

01:21:00.080 And there's a reason for that because doctors graduating today, my daughter's in medical

01:21:04.420 school.

01:21:04.740 She's in fourth year medical school.

01:21:06.080 Not a single thing on nutrition.

01:21:07.340 Like, what did you learn?

01:21:07.980 Well, I learned a bit of amino acids and fatty acids.

01:21:10.000 I mean, what are you going to tell your patient to have for lunch?

01:21:12.340 You know, like, and so zero education.

01:21:14.980 That could be changed overnight.

01:21:15.920 Was that true when you were in medical school?

01:21:17.200 Of course.

01:21:18.020 Yeah.

01:21:18.200 I learned about, you know, quashioris, corn, merasmus, and rickets, and serophthalmia,

01:21:22.080 all these rare diseases from vitamin deficiencies in Africa, and protein malnutrition.

01:21:25.900 Berry, berry.

01:21:26.640 Yeah, berry, berry, and pellagra.

01:21:28.040 I'm like, I never seen any of that.

01:21:29.700 You know, like, I didn't see any of that.

01:21:31.580 So I think, you know, I did see some malnutrition when I was in Haiti, but it was, you know, really,

01:21:36.160 really rare.

01:21:37.220 And we're not doing this.

01:21:39.260 The NIH could do a lot.

01:21:40.200 And then the HHS could fund with Medicare nutrition services in medicine, which it doesn't pay for

01:21:46.900 now.

01:21:47.440 So if you have diabetes or heart disease or diet-caused diseases, very hard to get nutrition

01:21:52.580 services.

01:21:53.240 And we at Cleveland Clinic created a lifestyle change program where we got people to work

01:21:58.480 together to change their behavior and change lifestyles.

01:22:00.860 It was based on this sort of work I did with Rick Warren and Saddleback Church, where we

01:22:04.040 got 15,000 people to lose a quarter million pounds in a year by actually getting healthy

01:22:09.240 together.

01:22:10.220 So really, it's about behavior change and also what to do.

01:22:12.480 So they changed what was in the refineries.

01:22:13.840 They got rid of the pancake breakfast, the ice cream socials.

01:22:16.660 They got everybody jogging for Jesus.

01:22:19.000 It was great.

01:22:20.260 And then they lost a lot of weight.

01:22:21.620 Rick lost a ton of weight.

01:22:22.560 They got healthy.

01:22:23.260 And we showed how people doing this in groups actually works.

01:22:26.440 And this could be funded by the federal government.

01:22:29.140 Well, schools used to do that.

01:22:30.360 Yeah.

01:22:30.980 I don't think they do anymore.

01:22:32.760 No.

01:22:32.960 And so we know actually how to change behavior.

01:22:36.300 We know how to change these chronic diseases with food.

01:22:38.600 And that needs to be funded.

01:22:39.740 So like I said, we don't have evidence-based medicine.

01:22:42.040 We have reimbursement-based medicine.

01:22:43.260 There's a company called Virta that reverses type 2 diabetes in 60% of their patients using

01:22:47.340 a ketogenic diet.

01:22:48.340 They do it with a continuous care online model.

01:22:50.780 They reverse all the biomarkers for heart disease.

01:22:53.120 They get those better.

01:22:54.200 They have about 12% weight loss.

01:22:56.120 Wait, can you start with this?

01:22:57.000 They reverse 60% of diagnosed type 2?

01:22:59.860 Yeah, fairly advanced type 2 diabetes.

01:23:01.460 Like insulin dependent?

01:23:02.540 100%.

01:23:02.940 They get 100% off the medication, the main medication for diabetes.

01:23:06.620 They get 90 plus percent off insulin.

01:23:07.700 When is part of my age?

01:23:08.540 They save $6,000 per diabetic patient.

01:23:11.480 And if you apply that to the Medicare diabetes population, just doing that alone would save

01:23:15.400 $100 billion a year.

01:23:17.420 Not even counting all the amputated limbs and all the suffering that goes along with it.

01:23:22.900 So roughly when is the average type 2 diabetic diagnosed as such?

01:23:29.040 Depends.

01:23:29.540 I mean, if you're a Pima Indian, you could be three years old. 1.00

01:23:32.940 You know, 80% of type 2 Pima Indians, by the time they're 30, have type 2 diabetes.

01:23:37.880 80?

01:23:38.540 80%.

01:23:39.060 80%.

01:23:39.580 In certain communities, it's rampant.

01:23:41.940 And in African-Americans, it's much higher than whites.

01:23:45.700 In Hispanics, it's much higher than whites.

01:23:47.160 So the age can vary, but the pre-diabetes starts early.

01:23:51.780 So we're measuring with function, my company, Function Health, insulin resistance, and we're

01:23:57.120 measuring insulin.

01:23:57.920 And most doctors never measure insulin.

01:23:59.680 I asked Quest, how many doctors are measuring insulin?

01:24:02.960 Probably less than 1% of the lab.

01:24:04.780 Quest is the testing.

01:24:05.860 Yeah, the Questing Company, yeah.

01:24:07.000 Like less than 1% get measurements for insulin, which is the single biggest thing we have a

01:24:11.640 problem with in America, which is our insulin levels are spiking because of sugar.

01:24:16.120 Insulin, when it's high, causes you to store belly fat.

01:24:18.480 It makes you hungry. 0.96

01:24:19.180 It locks the fat in your fat cells, and it slows your metabolism, so you're screwed.

01:24:23.420 And you get stuck in this vicious cycle where you have hungry fat that makes you eat more,

01:24:27.200 that makes you want to exercise less, and you get in this cycle of weight gain.

01:24:30.020 Nobody wakes up every day and go, I want to be diabetic.

01:24:32.000 I want to be overweight.

01:24:32.780 I want to gain weight.

01:24:33.240 Nobody says that.

01:24:34.820 But people do wake up craving sugar cereal and pancakes.

01:24:37.380 Exactly.

01:24:37.800 Exactly.

01:24:38.240 Because their metabolism and biochemistry has been hijacked by the food industry.

01:24:41.680 How long does it take to get out of that cycle?

01:24:43.280 Very quick.

01:24:44.200 Very quick.

01:24:44.320 Like how quick?

01:24:45.320 Well, I-

01:24:46.060 Let's say you're on a typical American diet and you're waking up with Frosted Flakes.

01:24:50.600 Yeah.

01:24:51.300 Hitting some kind of big sandwich and then having pasta for dinner.

01:24:53.900 You're doing that for 10 years.

01:24:55.300 How long does it take you to get out of the cycle?

01:24:57.220 I actually have done this with my patients for decades, and I created a program called

01:25:01.220 the 10-Day Detox Diet.

01:25:03.800 And essentially, it's 10 days of treating food addiction.

01:25:08.440 And I wrote a book about it called The 10-Day Detox Diet.

01:25:10.480 I have an online program.

01:25:11.680 It's starting actually in January.

01:25:12.980 If you want to go to 10daydetox.com.

01:25:14.860 And essentially, it guides people through how to reset your biochemistry, your hormones,

01:25:19.080 your gut microbiome, metabolism, very quickly through food.

01:25:23.040 So one of these patients I had in Cleveland Clinic, she started the program, and in three

01:25:28.380 days, she was off her insulin.

01:25:29.740 So the cravings go away in two or three days.

01:25:32.080 You feel shitty for two or three days, and then you start reducing symptoms.

01:25:36.040 And what happens is when you take out the bad stuff and put in the good stuff, you see

01:25:40.600 changes across your whole system.

01:25:42.160 Because when I talk about food as a root cause, it's a root cause for so many of the things

01:25:46.900 people are suffering from.

01:25:47.840 So depression, and autoimmune diseases, and gut issues.

01:25:52.080 Anger.

01:25:52.520 Anger.

01:25:53.140 I mean, yeah, it's amazing.

01:25:54.900 And we know-

01:25:55.500 Sugar causes anger.

01:25:57.340 Yes.

01:25:57.800 Actually, the data on this is pretty interesting.

01:25:59.700 So the amygdala is the reptile brain, fight or flight.

01:26:03.980 It's your reptilian lizard brain.

01:26:06.540 We all have one. 0.83

01:26:07.200 Yeah.

01:26:07.960 And we have a frontal lobe, which is the grownup in the room.

01:26:12.240 Yeah.

01:26:12.420 So you've got the reptile kind of, and you've got the grownup.

01:26:17.280 The communication there is important.

01:26:19.040 So when you're walking down the street and you see a beautiful woman, you say, gee, I'd

01:26:23.640 like to kiss that woman. 0.56

01:26:24.640 You don't do it because you know it's not a good idea for your marriage, right?

01:26:28.460 Yeah.

01:26:28.840 Right.

01:26:29.080 You have the frontal lobe one.

01:26:30.260 That's probably not a good idea.

01:26:31.440 Or, gee, I like that car over there.

01:26:33.500 I want to just take that car.

01:26:35.040 And my car was stolen from my driveway two days ago.

01:26:37.820 It was crazy, but that's another story.

01:26:39.460 But, you know, people don't have control over their behavior because the amygdala and the

01:26:44.860 frontal lobe communication is interrupted by inflammation.

01:26:48.820 Inflammation in the brain is the root cause of so many brain issues.

01:26:53.080 So depression is inflammation.

01:26:54.940 Autism is inflammation.

01:26:56.320 ADD is inflammation.

01:26:57.540 Alzheimer's is inflammation of the brain.

01:26:59.460 And Chris Palmer is a Harvard psychiatrist who wrote a book called Brain Energy talking

01:27:02.940 about this and how he cured schizophrenia using a ketogenic diet, getting people off of

01:27:07.500 sugar.

01:27:08.220 Curing schizophrenia?

01:27:09.040 Yes.

01:27:10.220 Yes.

01:27:11.280 So I'm saying these things that sound like crazy, heretical.

01:27:15.320 We can reverse Alzheimer's, reverse diabetes.

01:27:17.360 Well, they are heretical.

01:27:18.940 By definition, they're heretical.

01:27:20.320 It doesn't mean they're crazy, though.

01:27:21.500 No.

01:27:21.960 I mean, the science is there.

01:27:22.960 It's like if you actually look online, there's a National Library of Medicine database called

01:27:27.820 PubMed.

01:27:28.820 Anybody can search it.

01:27:30.140 And you can look at these things.

01:27:31.320 And you can look them up.

01:27:32.720 They're online.

01:27:33.760 There's studies done.

01:27:34.860 There's plenty of studies, but they don't translate into it.

01:27:37.060 So it sounds like you said so far the ketogenic diet can cure diabetes.

01:27:42.380 Diabetes, Alzheimer's, cancer.

01:27:44.020 And now schizophrenia.

01:27:45.240 Schizophrenia, yeah.

01:27:45.820 So will you describe the ketogenic diet just to be-

01:27:50.240 Yeah, sure.

01:27:50.640 So basically, this is something that was developed for epilepsy years ago, because when no drugs

01:27:55.300 work for epilepsy, neurologists realize that if they put people on a diet where their brain

01:27:59.360 was just running on ketones, which is the fuel instead of sugar that the body can run

01:28:03.880 on.

01:28:04.040 Maybe I said we're hybrid, AC, DC.

01:28:06.780 The gasoline is carbs, and the hybrid electric clean burning fuel is ketones.

01:28:11.280 So when you switch to ketones, it activates the brain's repair systems.

01:28:16.900 It improves mitochondrial function.

01:28:18.700 It reduces inflammation.

01:28:19.920 It helps cognitive function at every level.

01:28:22.620 So I've seen it work from autism to Alzheimer's to schizophrenia to depression.

01:28:28.920 It's just an all-protein diet.

01:28:30.300 It's not all-protein.

01:28:31.080 It's fat.

01:28:31.840 It's actually 75% fat.

01:28:34.800 Olive oil, avocados, nuts and seeds, animal fats, dairy fats.

01:28:39.060 And it basically should be a healthy version of it, because you can eat bacon, and that's

01:28:43.060 not a good idea.

01:28:43.960 But you can do healthy ketogenic diets that actually improve health and reverse disease

01:28:49.360 and work across all these things.

01:28:51.020 So sugar is really driving this big problem, sugar and starch.

01:28:53.860 And by the way, flour, bagel.

01:28:56.220 I mean, I had a lecture the other day, and a woman said, you know, I had a bagel for breakfast.

01:29:02.400 I noticed I had a glucose monitor on my sugar spike 70 points.

01:29:05.580 You know, she's got a metabolic problem. 1.00

01:29:07.140 And you can start to see when you eat these foods, your body gets dysregulated.

01:29:11.920 And when you use a diet that actually shuts off these cravings, that repairs the metabolic

01:29:16.280 dysfunction, that improves insulin sensitivity, it doesn't take long.

01:29:20.420 So it's shocking.

01:29:21.480 In five or 10 days, we get a 70% reduction from all symptoms and all diseases by people

01:29:27.020 just changing their diet.

01:29:28.120 And most people, Tucker, don't connect how they feel with what they're eating.

01:29:31.860 They don't make the connection.

01:29:32.820 And so they think they're suffering from all these problems that are related to what they're eating.

01:29:37.640 Why is it so hard for people to maintain a ketogenic diet?

01:29:41.740 Well, it's a very extreme diet.

01:29:42.840 I don't think you need to be so extreme.

01:29:44.040 Like a 10-day detox is not keto, but it does like probably 80 or 90% of the benefit.

01:29:48.240 So you get to eat more starchy foods.

01:29:50.060 Well, let's just say you just said, I'm going on a keto diet from now until I die.

01:29:53.340 Yeah.

01:29:53.560 Well, probably what you want to do is use it to fix the problem and then come off it.

01:29:58.940 We were always doing this historically because we were hunting and gathering.

01:30:02.660 And sometimes we didn't hunt and gather very well.

01:30:04.540 We couldn't find anything.

01:30:05.300 So we would switch into burning fat because we probably have 2,500 calories of sugar stored

01:30:10.760 in our muscles.

01:30:11.380 That doesn't last very long.

01:30:12.420 That'll last a day.

01:30:13.160 But we probably have 30, 50, 60, 100,000 calories of fat in our body because we just naturally

01:30:20.300 have fat in our body.

01:30:21.060 And that's a great source of fuel.

01:30:23.100 So what happens is the body starts to break down the fat and uses that.

01:30:26.560 And that's what happens when we overnight fast or we do a ketogenic diet.

01:30:30.360 You flip into this alternative metabolic pathway.

01:30:33.460 And that pathway is incredibly helpful for longevity.

01:30:38.300 It's helpful for reversing chronic diseases.

01:30:40.200 And across all these diseases, we're seeing the same thing happen.

01:30:43.340 So really, the bottom line here is that sugar and starch is the problem in America.

01:30:47.620 And it's in every processed food.

01:30:49.080 It's in what people are eating every day.

01:30:50.800 And people have no idea how much they're consuming.

01:30:53.420 So if you take out all the sugar and all the starch, is that the same as keto?

01:30:57.760 Not necessarily.

01:30:58.920 I mean, for example, if you can take out ultra processed food and you can stop your liquid

01:31:03.280 sugar calories, if you can eat more good fats, eat good quality protein, lots of fruits

01:31:07.180 and vegetables, most of our problems will go away.

01:31:09.060 This is not complicated science.

01:31:11.460 And so you don't have to be super extreme.

01:31:13.380 But if you are in an extreme situation and you have an extreme disease on your far end

01:31:17.300 at the end spectrum of type 2 diabetes, yeah, you might need to do that for a while until

01:31:20.880 you fix your metabolism.

01:31:22.360 So once you fix your metabolism-

01:31:23.360 Does the metabolism return to balance?

01:31:25.820 100%.

01:31:26.180 I mean, yeah.

01:31:27.260 I mean, you've got, like I showed you the picture last night of that woman.

01:31:30.780 She had type 2 diabetes.

01:31:31.680 She had heart failure.

01:31:32.820 She had hypertension.

01:31:33.760 She had kidneys failing.

01:31:34.680 She had fatty liver. 0.99

01:31:35.400 However, she changed her diet.

01:31:37.060 In three months, she was off all her medications, off all her insulin, reversed her diabetes,

01:31:40.540 reversed her heart failure, reversed her kidney failure, reversed her liver failure.

01:31:43.340 She was on her way to heart and kidney transplant.

01:31:44.880 This is not a patient who's like just slightly broken.

01:31:47.900 She's 66 on her way out.

01:31:49.900 And in a year, she lost 116 pounds and off all her medication.

01:31:52.740 And it wasn't through rocket science or through some great new advance in medicine.

01:31:58.460 It was just through applying the basic principles of nutrition and how the system works.

01:32:02.300 Can you take pretty much, so like any insulin-dependent patient in his 50s, can he be cured?

01:32:08.260 Type 1, no.

01:32:09.100 Type 1 is an autoimmune disease.

01:32:10.560 I understand.

01:32:11.000 No, I'm sorry.

01:32:11.340 Type 2, if you're on insulin, you can probably get 60% to 70% of those people off of insulin

01:32:18.380 or dramatically lower on insulin.

01:32:21.960 And you can reverse completely diabetes in about 60% to 70% of those patients.

01:32:26.100 And this is well-documented science.

01:32:27.680 I'm not pulling this out of thin air.

01:32:29.580 So why wouldn't that be a goal?

01:32:31.660 Well, that's one of the things I think the new administration needs to do is, I mean,

01:32:36.440 we spend over a billion dollars a day on diabetes, and this is a completely avoidable problem.

01:32:41.860 And it is the biggest driver, again, of all these problems.

01:32:44.200 If you have diabetes, you're four times likely to get Alzheimer's, more likely to get cancer,

01:32:47.940 more likely to get heart attacks.

01:32:49.080 All the things are caused by this fundamental problem of sugar and starch in our diet.

01:32:53.080 And so I think that the federal government should initiate a diabetes reversal campaign

01:32:57.260 across HHS and Health and Human Services and fund these trials and demonstration projects,

01:33:02.760 show this works, and then scale it up.

01:33:04.620 Because this is a solvable problem.

01:33:06.520 You know, I can't fix Middle East crisis. 1.00

01:33:09.180 I can't, you know, end the war in Ukraine.

01:33:11.200 I can't, you know, prevent the war. 0.88

01:33:12.320 Those are hard, yeah.

01:33:13.160 But this is a solvable problem.

01:33:14.900 The answers are clear.

01:33:15.980 The solutions are clear.

01:33:17.080 We did an interview with a woman called Casey Means. 0.87

01:33:20.560 She's a Stanford-educated surgeon and really one of the most remarkable people I have ever met.

01:33:27.060 In the interview, she explained how the food that we eat,

01:33:30.240 produced by huge food companies, big food, in conjunction with pharma,

01:33:36.060 is destroying our health, making this a weak and sick country.

01:33:40.340 The levels of chronic disease are beyond belief.

01:33:44.140 What Casey Means, who we've not stopped thinking about ever since,

01:33:48.360 is the co-founder of a healthcare technology company called Levels.

01:33:52.140 And we are proud to announce today that we are partnering with Levels.

01:33:55.680 And by proud, I mean sincerely proud.

01:33:58.680 Levels is a really interesting company and a great product.

01:34:01.740 It gives you insight into what's going on inside your body, your metabolic health.

01:34:06.480 It helps you understand how the food that you're eating,

01:34:08.900 the things that you're doing every single day,

01:34:10.760 are affecting your body in real time.

01:34:13.260 And you don't think about it.

01:34:14.200 You have no idea what you're putting in your mouth,

01:34:15.540 and you have no idea what it's doing to your body.

01:34:17.080 But over time, you feel weak and tired and spacey.

01:34:22.280 And over an even longer period of time, you can get really sick.

01:34:24.940 So it's worth knowing what the food you eat is doing to you.

01:34:29.620 The Levels app works with something called the Continuous Glucose Monitor, a CGM.

01:34:34.700 You can get one as part of the plan, or you can bring your own.

01:34:36.880 It doesn't matter.

01:34:38.200 But the bottom line is, big tech, big pharma, and big food

01:34:42.700 combined together to form an incredibly malevolent force, 0.98

01:34:47.760 pumping you full of garbage, unhealthy food with artificial sugars, 0.98

01:34:51.340 and hurting you, and hurting the entire country. 0.90

01:34:53.920 So with Levels, you'll be able to see immediately what all this is doing to you.

01:34:57.820 You get access to real-time personalized data,

01:35:00.500 and it's a critical step to changing your behavior.

01:35:03.200 Those of us who like Oreos can tell you firsthand.

01:35:06.280 This isn't talking to your doctor in an annual physical,

01:35:09.240 looking backwards about things you did in the past.

01:35:11.680 This is up to the second information on how your body is responding

01:35:16.300 to different foods and activities, the things that give you stress,

01:35:19.520 your sleep, et cetera, et cetera.

01:35:21.800 It's easy to use.

01:35:23.340 It gives you powerful, personalized health data,

01:35:25.660 and you can make much better choices about how you feel.

01:35:28.600 And over time, it'll have a huge effect.

01:35:30.800 Right now, you can get an additional two free months

01:35:33.300 when you go to levels.link slash Tucker.

01:35:36.000 That's levels.link slash Tucker.

01:35:38.800 This is the beginning of what we hope will be a long and happy partnership

01:35:42.620 with Levels and Dr. Casey Means.

01:35:44.960 So I buy everything you're saying.

01:36:00.800 I think it's demonstrably true.

01:36:02.360 You can feel it in yourself.

01:36:03.660 Yeah.

01:36:05.040 And, you know, one anomaly does not disprove a general truth.

01:36:09.380 Yeah.

01:36:10.060 But Donald Trump is that one anomaly, I would say.

01:36:12.540 I don't know if you remember UB Blake.

01:36:15.600 He was a musician.

01:36:17.340 And he, you know, smoked and drank and did all these, you know,

01:36:20.320 aid craft.

01:36:21.140 He says, if I would have known I was going to live so long,

01:36:23.240 I would have taken better care of myself.

01:36:25.540 And I think, you know, there are people who-

01:36:27.460 I have a father like that.

01:36:28.480 I mean, there are people who just like Madame Clamont.

01:36:31.140 She lived to 122 years old.

01:36:33.520 She smoked.

01:36:34.100 She drank.

01:36:34.840 She ate tons of chocolate.

01:36:36.040 She was never married.

01:36:36.760 Maybe that was her secret.

01:36:37.620 But she was the oldest living human ever.

01:36:39.100 Yes.

01:36:39.460 And, you know, some people just have genes that make them go no matter what.

01:36:43.540 And so, I would like to see what his blood work says.

01:36:46.200 I would like to know what's going on in the hood.

01:36:48.140 I mean, that would be amazing.

01:36:49.680 And certainly would love to help anybody be healthy.

01:36:52.100 I take care of everybody.

01:36:53.440 You know, one day in my office, I had a Muslim.

01:36:56.600 I had a chief rabbi.

01:36:57.760 I had a top Democrat, a top Republican.

01:37:00.140 I had a Christian pastor.

01:37:01.820 It was like, you know, it was so funny.

01:37:03.260 But, you know, I'm a doctor.

01:37:04.260 I take care of humans.

01:37:05.140 And, you know, biology is bipartisan.

01:37:06.860 And we all are human.

01:37:08.680 We all suffer from the same things.

01:37:10.820 But there are genetic anomalies.

01:37:12.520 Yeah.

01:37:12.940 There are.

01:37:13.380 Because I just had an ice cream sundae with Trump like three days ago.

01:37:17.260 Yeah.

01:37:17.820 I'm off the ice cream sundaes for a while.

01:37:19.580 Thank you, Tucker.

01:37:21.020 Got to get off him.

01:37:22.100 But he's 25 years older than I am.

01:37:24.880 Yeah.

01:37:25.720 And I'm not just saying this. 0.94

01:37:26.600 I'm not sucking up. 0.77

01:37:27.360 I wouldn't say anything if this weren't true.

01:37:29.340 But the guy's sharp.

01:37:30.720 Yeah.

01:37:30.880 Actually sharp.

01:37:31.900 Yeah.

01:37:32.020 Really precise.

01:37:33.020 Recall.

01:37:33.640 Fast.

01:37:34.160 Funny.

01:37:34.760 Yeah.

01:37:34.940 In, you know.

01:37:36.560 Yeah.

01:37:36.920 Pretty good shape.

01:37:38.180 79.

01:37:38.920 Yeah.

01:37:40.120 That's just a freak of nature thing.

01:37:41.680 I think it is.

01:37:42.380 You know, I think it is.

01:37:43.340 I mean, I think, you know, would I love him to get healthy and everybody to get healthy?

01:37:47.660 Yes.

01:37:48.000 That's my job.

01:37:48.820 I'm a doctor.

01:37:49.520 But if he's managing and doing great, what can I say?

01:37:53.420 But for most of us, that's not going to work, is it?

01:37:55.560 No.

01:37:55.740 I can feel that it's not going to work for me either.

01:37:57.260 No.

01:37:57.760 It's not.

01:37:58.380 Most of us are more in the human realm.

01:38:00.400 He's an anomaly.

01:38:02.520 That's wild.

01:38:03.000 Sorry, I just had to say that because I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

01:38:08.240 I don't know if anybody's really had a chance to now talk to him about his health and health

01:38:11.720 risks and how he could do better.

01:38:13.100 But, you know, I don't know.

01:38:14.180 I don't know.

01:38:14.460 I don't know how you do, how he would do that job at 78 years old, but he's crushing it.

01:38:18.300 It looks like.

01:38:19.240 Yeah.

01:38:19.800 Yeah.

01:38:20.120 Yeah.

01:38:20.740 So he's not like, and by the way, most, I've known a lot of people who've been president

01:38:24.560 and none of them are kind of normal.

01:38:27.500 Yeah.

01:38:27.900 It's an unusual job.

01:38:29.480 It takes a lot to get there.

01:38:30.500 It's a certain kind of person there.

01:38:33.020 I don't know the last time we had a president die in office.

01:38:35.380 It's been quite some time, but it seems to kind of suspend.

01:38:38.780 Maybe it's the intensity.

01:38:39.680 Wardrell Wilson had a stroke, but that was it.

01:38:41.380 Yeah.

01:38:41.600 No, but he made it.

01:38:43.100 He made it.

01:38:43.620 Well, his wife was president for a while.

01:38:44.660 Yeah, well, right.

01:38:45.400 Right.

01:38:45.680 Well, we have that now, actually.

01:38:47.280 But they still keep going.

01:38:49.700 Yeah.

01:38:49.880 I don't know.

01:38:50.220 So you think that after all the powerful forces you've described to raid against him,

01:38:57.140 Bobby Kennedy can still win.

01:38:58.900 I do.

01:38:59.340 I think what's going on now in America is an awakening.

01:39:02.760 I think there's an awareness that the trust in our medical system and science system has

01:39:07.300 been broken.

01:39:07.780 It needs to be repaired.

01:39:08.960 It needs integrity.

01:39:10.060 It needs someone calling out the conflicts of interest.

01:39:13.360 It needs good science being produced.

01:39:16.240 And I think, you know, with the understanding that now we're in this crisis, that he's so

01:39:22.100 well articulated and people like Casey and Callie on your podcast have done, that I've

01:39:26.680 done for decades, that somehow it's getting through.

01:39:29.540 That this is never an issue.

01:39:31.440 This was never an issue in any.

01:39:33.240 I've been crying from rooftops for 30 years.

01:39:36.480 I feel like I've been this voice crying in the wilderness.

01:39:38.920 And now it's unbelievable to me to see.

01:39:41.640 It must be pretty cool for you to see this.

01:39:43.440 It's unbelievable.

01:39:43.860 And I see that there's an awakening in America, that people are sick and tired of being sick

01:39:48.040 and tired.

01:39:49.300 They're seeing everybody in their family sick.

01:39:51.260 They're seeing the rise of all the diseases.

01:39:52.920 They know something's broken.

01:39:53.980 They know the drugs and the current system is not fixing it the way it is.

01:39:57.160 It needs to be fixed.

01:39:58.440 And we need somebody to lead this.

01:40:00.720 And I think, you know, Bobby has his issues and his controversies and his questions.

01:40:04.140 But at the very heart, I think he's focused on the right thing, which is focusing on the

01:40:08.980 root causes of our chronic epidemic, focusing on the problems with our food system,

01:40:12.340 with our ag system, and that is the right thing to be doing.

01:40:15.520 And I think the federal government has enormous power to actually change this through a whole

01:40:19.580 series of different actions across different agencies that all can work together to make

01:40:24.060 a difference.

01:40:24.600 And I'm thinking this is now going to happen.

01:40:27.200 I think we can provide for these things across all the agencies.

01:40:30.840 And they're not like hard things, right?

01:40:33.060 We can improve SNAP.

01:40:34.740 We can improve school lunches.

01:40:36.320 We can improve our dietary guidelines and fund those.

01:40:38.600 And we have dietary guidelines for Americans.

01:40:40.300 There's no funding for them.

01:40:42.340 The Congress mandates that they are produced every five years.

01:40:45.080 I met with the guidelines people in HHS.

01:40:48.200 I said, we have to go around with a tin cup to the other departments to beg for Nichols

01:40:52.360 to actually fund our work because we don't get any federal funding to create the dietary

01:40:56.720 guidelines.

01:40:57.380 Nor does NASEN, the National Academy of Science, Medicine, and Engineering, which is supposed to

01:41:01.580 review the literature and be an independent scientific body looking at the nutritional

01:41:05.440 research, doesn't have the funding to do basic literature reviews and science reviews to

01:41:10.700 actually inform the dietary guidelines.

01:41:12.480 So there's no money in the process.

01:41:14.160 And then there's no money to implement the guidelines to actually create awareness and

01:41:18.840 implementation across America for what we should be eating.

01:41:21.360 So the whole system is sort of broken.

01:41:23.660 And we need to sort of rejigger that.

01:41:25.060 We can find, I don't know how many billions of dollars we spent on, you know, forever wars.

01:41:29.360 I mean, we're talking about a few million dollars, like a few millions of dollars could make a

01:41:33.720 profound difference in actually getting the right things done.

01:41:36.480 So we have the ability to change what's happening in the DOD as well, you know, with the military

01:41:41.380 readiness and performance and performance enhancement.

01:41:44.700 And I've been working with special ops forces on some of this stuff.

01:41:47.800 And, you know, the military is starting to understand that this is an issue and shift some

01:41:50.860 of their policies.

01:41:51.980 You know, the NIH needs to fund, again, nutrition research.

01:41:54.760 We should probably have a national institute of nutrition like many other countries have.

01:41:57.420 We shouldn't allow funding for medical schools that don't actually provide nutrition

01:42:00.940 curriculums.

01:42:01.500 We should, you know, have our agricultural system supporting farmers to transition to

01:42:06.040 regenerative agriculture and produce healthier food and revitalize its communities and stop

01:42:09.580 their extreme decline into sort of financial ruin and suicide.

01:42:14.120 I mean, why is there a 350% higher risk of suicide in farmers? 0.94

01:42:18.080 You know, that's ridiculous.

01:42:19.120 And that's because of our policies and what we're doing and how they're squeezed.

01:42:22.760 So we have across all the agencies such tremendous power to make simple changes that can really

01:42:27.400 transform America.

01:42:28.220 Front of package labeling.

01:42:29.460 We can do front of package labeling, inform people about what's in their food like they

01:42:32.360 have in other countries.

01:42:33.660 You know, get out the stuff.

01:42:34.760 And the European Union has really clearly identified the most harmful chemicals in our food.

01:42:39.880 Get them out of our food.

01:42:41.000 I mean, you go to Europe or you go to Canada, you don't see the same product with the same

01:42:46.640 ingredients like Froot Loops.

01:42:47.720 You know, there's a big 400,000 person petition against Froot Loops because their U.S. product

01:42:52.280 was full of all kinds of dyes and colors.

01:42:53.760 Whereas in Canada, they use, you know, there's carrot dye or use, you know, blueberry dye

01:42:58.140 or other things to make it colorful, not harmful dyes that are banned in other countries.

01:43:02.160 So these companies already do it.

01:43:04.040 Why shouldn't they do it in America? 0.69

01:43:05.600 If you get crap macaroni and cheese in America, it's got dyes in it that they don't allow in 0.96

01:43:09.660 Europe. 0.96

01:43:10.500 So the same companies are making the product.

01:43:12.560 They just don't do it here.

01:43:13.860 Because it's cheaper.

01:43:14.620 Yeah.

01:43:15.040 So we need to just enforce these standards.

01:43:17.320 And we should adopt the precautionary principle.

01:43:19.200 You know, we shouldn't allow things in our food that we don't know are healthy or that

01:43:25.160 we don't know are good for you.

01:43:27.040 If they're harmful, we should know about it.

01:43:29.640 So the study should be done to prove that they're safe and effective rather than just

01:43:32.920 approving them and then waiting and seeing if they're harmful and then taking them off

01:43:36.160 the market, which is kind of what we do.

01:43:37.940 It's different than the precautionary principle, which is, you know, you're guilty until proven

01:43:42.000 innocent.

01:43:42.400 Here, you're innocent until proven guilty, which is fine in the court of law for a human being,

01:43:46.640 but not for a food additive or chemical that could harm human health.

01:43:50.620 What do you do about doctors?

01:43:51.920 I haven't been at the doctor in a long time because I'm so distressed because I've seen

01:43:56.080 so many doctors recklessly prescribe drugs that have destroyed people's lives.

01:44:02.140 Adderall or benzodiazepines or SSRIs, vaccines, all this stuff.

01:44:06.320 It's like, it seems like an incredibly reckless group of people.

01:44:09.920 They have no moral authority left from my perspective, but we need doctors with moral authority who practice

01:44:15.980 science.

01:44:16.480 Like, how do you change that?

01:44:17.740 Listen, I would say, Tucker, that most doctors went into medicine to do good.

01:44:21.080 I think that's right.

01:44:22.040 And there's a-

01:44:23.400 It didn't go because it's easy.

01:44:24.320 No.

01:44:24.540 I mean, the well-meaning or often ill-doing, and they're caught up in a system that is kind

01:44:30.780 of co-opted them.

01:44:32.080 And it took me a while to get deprogrammed.

01:44:35.220 I was programmed by medical school.

01:44:37.100 I was taught that, you know, this is this bastion of science, that everything is pure

01:44:41.360 and clean.

01:44:42.040 There's no conflict, that everything you read in the scientific paper is true, that, you

01:44:47.140 know, pharmaceuticals are the solution to our problems.

01:44:49.600 I mean, this is what we were taught.

01:44:51.700 And we were taught-

01:44:52.640 Pharmaceuticals are the solution to our problems?

01:44:54.620 Yeah.

01:44:54.900 I mean, what is the doctor's toolkit?

01:44:56.720 It's a knife and a prescription pad.

01:44:59.460 That's it.

01:45:00.500 Yeah.

01:45:00.760 And if you have cancer, it's radiation, right?

01:45:02.700 So basically, we don't have a hell of a lot of tools.

01:45:05.960 And if you take away a doctor's prescription pad, how do they practice medicine?

01:45:10.140 But I almost never pull out my prescription pad.

01:45:12.440 I don't need to.

01:45:13.540 Because lifestyle and food are the best drugs on the planet.

01:45:16.980 They're not like drugs.

01:45:17.960 They work better than any other drugs, like exercise, diet, sleep.

01:45:21.420 These are profoundly foundational to our health.

01:45:23.960 And we have a disease system, not a health system.

01:45:27.420 We don't have a medical system that's based on the science of creating health.

01:45:31.300 We have a system that's based on the science of diagnosing and treating diseases rather

01:45:34.780 than looking at their root causes.

01:45:35.920 So part of the problem is in the education.

01:45:38.280 And I think doctors want to do the right thing, and they're frustrated.

01:45:40.900 And I can tell you, by being on the inside, because I'm in the Cleveland Clinic for 10

01:45:44.260 years, people come out of the woodwork.

01:45:46.400 They're like, this is great.

01:45:47.280 We want to change.

01:45:48.620 We need to understand how to do things differently.

01:45:50.980 Toby Cosgrove, who is sort of the most visionary CEO in medicine, he was asked by the Biden

01:45:56.140 administration, the Trump administration, everybody to work for him.

01:45:58.320 Everybody wants him.

01:45:59.260 And he brought Cleveland Clinic to be, you know, the number two center of healthcare in

01:46:03.780 the world.

01:46:04.340 Mayo Clinic, you know, at him, they're in competition.

01:46:06.480 He said, Mayo was what you put on your sandwich.

01:46:08.240 It was very funny.

01:46:09.520 But I met him at the World Economic Forum.

01:46:11.420 And I said, Toby, what if I could empty out half your hospitals and cut your angioplasties 1.00

01:46:15.440 and bypasses in half?

01:46:16.440 And they're the number one heart hospital in the world.

01:46:18.520 He said, that would be a great idea.

01:46:20.080 I said, why?

01:46:20.600 You're going to cut your revenue in half.

01:46:21.940 What are you going to do about that?

01:46:22.980 He said, we'll figure it out.

01:46:23.920 It's the right thing to do.

01:46:24.740 So he invited me to come and I would, I mean, like, I didn't want to go to Cleveland and

01:46:28.560 he had a good life.

01:46:29.720 And he says, I want you to come and I'll give you whatever you want, but let's do this.

01:46:33.620 We need to address chronic disease differently.

01:46:35.440 The way we're doing it is wrong.

01:46:36.740 We need to think differently.

01:46:37.680 And he gave me carte blanche and we built a center.

01:46:40.280 We had done tons of research and we showed that the model works and it really gets, you

01:46:44.940 know, gets into the root of the problem.

01:46:46.580 And so there is a shift in medicine.

01:46:48.440 There are doctors who are flocking to this.

01:46:50.020 There are people who are understanding the system is broken.

01:46:51.780 And, but, but it's, it's a tough sell for some people because they're so brainwashed.

01:46:55.160 It's like, if the earth is flat, you convince the earth is flat and you can't convince people

01:46:58.440 otherwise.

01:46:59.260 And, you know, we're still arguing over things like evolution, you know, 150 years later.

01:47:03.200 I mean, we're still arguing over the earth is flat.

01:47:06.400 There's people who are flat earthers, you know, it's like, so this is the problem in medicine.

01:47:10.980 There's a scientific paradigm change that needs to happen.

01:47:13.220 And doctors are starting to get that this is true.

01:47:15.380 And I think it's, it's, it's not that they're trying to do something harmful or bad.

01:47:19.240 They're just stuck in a system and they need to get liberated.

01:47:22.320 And, and I met with Kathleen Sebelius when I was going around trying to get these policies

01:47:26.600 in Obamacare around lifestyle change.

01:47:28.540 So this is a great idea.

01:47:29.940 You know, if we, if we create these lifestyle change programs for Medicare, people are going

01:47:33.000 to get better.

01:47:33.460 They're healthier.

01:47:34.300 We're going to reduce healthcare costs and healthcare outcomes.

01:47:37.520 She said, but who's going to know how to do it? 0.87

01:47:39.220 I said, don't worry about that because if you pay for it, people will figure it out.

01:47:42.300 If you pay for an angioplasty, if you pay for an angioplasty, doctors are going to learn

01:47:45.780 how to do angioplasties, right?

01:47:47.580 You don't have to worry about that.

01:47:48.540 If you pay for a lifestyle intensive change program that works better than, I mean, this

01:47:54.860 woman I was telling you about, she, she, she had $20,000 of copay. 1.00

01:47:58.260 I don't know what her other medications cause for the insurance or the healthcare system.

01:48:02.540 Plus she was in and out of the hospital all the time. 0.93

01:48:04.960 Should we probably save the healthcare system a million bucks? 0.93

01:48:08.440 I got paid $200 a visit.

01:48:11.280 We don't get the benefit as doctors for doing the right thing.

01:48:14.360 We get benefit for doing the wrong thing.

01:48:15.720 We get benefit for paying more.

01:48:18.400 I mean, for doing more, not doing the right thing.

01:48:20.920 So it's a, it's a reimbursement based system based on fee for service and throughput, not

01:48:25.620 based on outcomes.

01:48:26.640 Imagine if you were making cars and you had a car company that produced cars that didn't

01:48:30.620 work or they got at the, you know, you drove off a lot and they just fell apart after a

01:48:34.160 few years or they had to come back constantly to get fixed every month.

01:48:36.680 But you wouldn't have a car company, but that's what we do in medicine.

01:48:40.440 No, you wouldn't.

01:48:40.680 That's what we do in medicine.

01:48:41.580 We have, we have a system that doesn't really fix the problem and people, you know, are not,

01:48:45.540 are not, are not actually getting the solutions that the science says work.

01:48:48.900 Like the things we've been talking about on the show.

01:48:50.580 So I think we have a historic opportunity now.

01:48:53.380 I mean, it's fraught, right?

01:48:54.740 There's going to be, there's trillions of dollars at stake here, Tucker, trillions of dollars

01:48:59.840 in the food industry, in the ag industry, the fast food companies, all these companies

01:49:05.520 are, are, are going to be frightened about this.

01:49:08.900 And they, they are already circling the wagons.

01:49:11.220 They're already coming around Washington, working on discrediting everybody in this, in

01:49:15.320 this administration.

01:49:16.020 They're pushing back hard because they, because they know day of reckoning is coming.

01:49:20.140 And I think it's time.

01:49:21.360 I mean, the American people should not be the victims of this system.

01:49:24.700 Like I said, 93% of us are somewhere in that spectrum of pre-diabetes to type 2 diabetes.

01:49:30.520 That's frightening to me as a doctor.

01:49:32.700 I mean, that, that's just like what, when I was, when I was in medical school, this wasn't

01:49:36.740 a problem.

01:49:37.260 There was no juvenile diabetes that, where kids had type 2 diabetes.

01:49:41.200 This doesn't exist.

01:49:42.280 Yeah.

01:49:42.600 And this is, I'm not that old.

01:49:43.700 I mean, old, I'm not that old.

01:49:45.420 I'm still walking.

01:49:46.340 Look at the pictures of Woodstock from August of 69.

01:49:48.760 Yeah.

01:49:49.380 Yeah.

01:49:49.640 You know.

01:49:50.080 Exactly.

01:49:50.700 150,000 shirtless.

01:49:52.480 You were there, right?

01:49:53.080 Young Americans.

01:49:54.020 The year I was born.

01:49:55.560 And you can see the ribs all over.

01:49:57.060 Yeah, exactly.

01:49:58.300 You know, so this is not a genetic problem.

01:50:00.240 You've got, you know, scientists from Harvard saying this obesity is genetic.

01:50:03.500 It's not.

01:50:04.000 I mean, there are genetic predispositions.

01:50:05.660 So what is that?

01:50:06.120 Yeah.

01:50:06.260 And what is the celebration of unhealth that you've seen for the last four years?

01:50:10.880 And attacking people who try to stay fit as right wing.

01:50:13.820 Yeah.

01:50:13.940 It's a political category to be healthy.

01:50:16.420 Well, yeah.

01:50:16.980 What is that?

01:50:18.000 I mean, the body positive movement?

01:50:19.660 Or you mean?

01:50:20.120 Yeah.

01:50:20.240 It's the most negative thing I've ever seen.

01:50:21.920 Of course, it's mislabeled like everything.

01:50:23.520 Yeah.

01:50:23.660 How is it positive to encourage people to be unhealthy?

01:50:27.200 I mean, you know, do you know there was a number, I think it was in the.

01:50:30.580 Who's paying for that? 0.60

01:50:31.260 I think it was in Washington Post or Wall Street Journal.

01:50:32.620 They did a whole sort of series of articles on how the food industry has sort of hijacked

01:50:36.840 the media.

01:50:37.940 So they talked about how 40% of the nutritionists who are on social media are paid by the food

01:50:43.580 industry to promote false concepts.

01:50:46.500 Like, don't worry about how many calories you're eating.

01:50:48.340 Eat whatever you want.

01:50:49.240 Indulge yourself.

01:50:50.100 You know, it's really quite striking how deliberate their actions are.

01:50:54.840 And so I think the sad thing is that people are actually been manipulated by the food system

01:51:02.320 in a way that they can't.

01:51:03.420 40% of the nutritionists on social media are paid by food companies.

01:51:08.660 Yeah.

01:51:08.860 This was an expose.

01:51:09.900 I think it was in the Washington Post.

01:51:12.040 And it was like, and you see it.

01:51:14.200 And so they're not.

01:51:16.400 So Sarah Lee is paying nutritionists. 1.00

01:51:18.680 I don't know if it's Sarah Lee or who.

01:51:19.960 I don't know.

01:51:20.600 It's, you know, I mean, 40% of the budget of the American Academy of Nutrition Dietetics

01:51:24.860 is paid for by the food industry.

01:51:27.320 And they have panels where you've got people from McDonald's and Coca-Cola on the panels.

01:51:31.720 So you're saying that most physicians want to do good in the world and help people.

01:51:36.180 They want to do good.

01:51:36.720 But if you're, I'm sorry, if you're a nutritionist taking money from, you know, the baked goods

01:51:42.460 industry.

01:51:44.140 It's not good.

01:51:45.080 I mean, I would have. 0.97

01:51:45.420 But you must know that you're corrupt because that's corrupt. 0.99

01:51:47.640 That's so obviously corrupt. 0.98

01:51:49.260 I guess so.

01:51:50.400 I'm not taking money from George Soros.

01:51:51.960 No.

01:51:52.240 And if I were, I would know that I was corrupt.

01:51:54.060 Right.

01:51:54.340 Exactly.

01:51:54.880 So it's how the system's rigged.

01:51:58.040 And unfortunately.

01:51:58.520 But the people participating in that system are also culpable.

01:52:01.220 Sorry.

01:52:01.800 I think so.

01:52:02.580 I mean, I think, you know, they're, I think for sure those are nutritious.

01:52:06.980 I think doctors are stuck because they want to do the right thing.

01:52:10.600 They don't have the education of what to do.

01:52:12.480 They don't know how to do it.

01:52:13.620 And they're only told one thing, which is these drugs work for these problems and give

01:52:17.140 these prescriptions.

01:52:18.120 And like I said at the beginning, we've seen dramatic rises in all chronic diseases and

01:52:22.000 an even more dramatic rise in the use of prescription medications for those diseases,

01:52:25.520 which we're not getting better.

01:52:26.900 We're 48 to life expectancy.

01:52:28.580 We spend more than double any other nation.

01:52:30.820 On Joe Rogan, I gave a slide to a friend of mine, Callie, and he gave it to Trump.

01:52:35.640 He gave it to somebody else to give it to Trump that he used on Joe Rogan, which showed,

01:52:38.900 you know, the life expectancy in America and the cost of our healthcare expenditures were

01:52:43.060 completely kind of off the chart.

01:52:45.860 So life expectancy is going down.

01:52:47.720 Other countries are high.

01:52:48.940 We're spending twice as much as anybody else.

01:52:50.700 It must be nice to live long enough to be vindicated.

01:52:55.660 You know, Van Gogh never got that, but you have.

01:52:58.620 Yeah.

01:52:58.880 I mean, I, listen, I'm optimistic, Tucker.

01:53:00.780 I think we're in a moment where the country is ready for change, where the country understands

01:53:05.040 we have this health crisis where they're willing to sort of make changes.

01:53:08.260 And I think if the politicians in Congress understand these issues, I think they'll make

01:53:13.420 the right choices.

01:53:14.900 I think if they have the support of the American people, which I think they do, they can make

01:53:20.680 choices that are difficult and often against the people who are funding their campaigns

01:53:24.760 or funding their super PACs.

01:53:26.740 And, you know, we have to realize we have a bought and paid for system and it's unfortunate,

01:53:31.840 but I think that the problem has gotten big enough.

01:53:34.280 We have to face it and deal with it.

01:53:36.080 Dr. Mark Hyman, thank you very much.

01:53:38.420 Appreciate it.

01:53:39.020 My pleasure.

01:53:41.480 Thanks for listening to Tucker Carlson show.

01:53:43.280 If you enjoyed it, you can go to tuckercarlson.com to see everything that we have made the complete

01:53:48.640 library, tuckercarlson.com.

The Tucker Carlson Show - November 27, 2024

Dr. Mark Hyman： Everything You're Eating Is Toxic, and Big Pharma Likes It That Way

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