Dr. Willie Soon
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Summary
Willie Soon, an astrophysicist, a geoscientist, has been thinking about this for a long time . He spent 31 years at Harvard and he joins us here . He says if fossil fuels aren't from fossils, where are they from? And what does it tell us about our modern climate change policy?
Transcript
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In the United States, we often refer to our main sources of energy as fossil fuel, oil,
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natural gas, coal. They're fossil fuels because they come from fossils, ancient organic material,
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forests, jungles, plankton, dinosaurs. Held under the ground for millennia, they transform into oil,
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gas, and coal. Everybody thinks that's true. On the other hand, there's evidence that maybe it's
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not the whole story. If that's where fossil fuels come from, if that's how hydrocarbons are made,
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then how come they're found so deep under the oceans and at the top of the earth? How come one
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of Saturn's moons, according to scientists, has more oil and natural gas than earth? Were there
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dinosaurs and planktons and forests at one point on one of Saturn's moons? Probably not. So if all
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hydrocarbons aren't from fossils, where are they from? And why isn't this commonly known? And what
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are the implications of it? And what does it tell us about our modern climate change policy?
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These are not just esoteric questions. They're central questions, actually, as we chart the future
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of energy usage in the world. Willie Soon has been thinking about this for a long time. He's an
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astrophysicist, a geoscientist. He spent 31 years at Harvard. He recently left and he joins us here.
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It's a blessing to be able to come on your show.
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Well, it's a blessing to have you. And this is such an interesting question with so many
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implications. And I want to spend most of our time talking about the implications. But
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just to the strict question of where hydrocarbons come from, it sounds like they're not necessarily
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all from ancient forests or plankton or dinosaurs, are they?
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Yes. The story can be a bit long, so give me a few minutes to explain. You are certainly right. But
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most important to clarify is that the information that is found on the largest moon on Saturn,
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which is called Titan, is actually results from NASA, European Space Agency, and then the Italian
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Space Agency, who built this spacecraft called Cassini and Huygen. Actually, one of my thesis
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advisor committee is actually built the UV spectrometer. But the one that they use to discover this,
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is basically the ocean liquid, liquid form of methane, which is in ethane form, which is much
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more complicated hydrocarbon. It's a whole ocean of it. Because Titan is in such a way that it's
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very cold, by the way. So it's minus 290 degrees Fahrenheit. Yes. Hint, hint, hint. Where's the global
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warming there, right? If it's full of methane there, right? That's another problem because it's far away
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from the sun. That's what it is. Yes. And clearly that the question of abiogenic
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matter, which means no need of any biology, is true. Because we know. Actually, one experimental experiment
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was done in 2009. It was done in Swedish Royal Academy, one of those groups. But it's done by one Russian
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leader. He was able to show that if you squeeze methane, CH4 in chemical formula, so four hydrogen,
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one carbon, squeeze them in a form that in which they simulate the condition of the earth
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mantle, which is 1800 miles deep, kind of below the surface, because the earth is deeper, right?
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And it's within this 18, but basically the condition that is only about 40 to 150 miles in,
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that you actually can form complex hydrocarbon. You got benzene, you got ethane, you got all these
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other stuff forming. So that proof beyond doubt that you have such a way to make this. Plus that
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Titan proof beyond doubt. You actually see methane also in all the atmosphere, Jupiter, you know,
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you even find benzene in the rocks of Mars. And then for me, astrophysicist, I can tell you even more.
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You find this complex hydrocarbon called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon. It's another one of those
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complex hydrocarbon. Then actually you found it in interstellar space, which is space within stars,
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intergalactic space. These are everywhere because temperature there are cold and probably the right
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pressure condition. All this complex hydrocarbon. It's kind of incredible because all of us,
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including myself until very recently, assumed that all of our main energy sources are these
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so-called fossil fuels. And of course their existence is going to be limited by the amount of fossils,
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by the amount of decaying organic material. Not so.
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So if that's not so, then we need to rethink a lot of things.
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A lot. I think, I think this one fit into a paradigm, a famous economist that I like very much.
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His name is Simon. Do you know about this guy named Simon?
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Julian Simon. Julian Simon. Yeah, the key guy. University of Illinois and then Maryland.
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He was the guy who said that the ultimate resource of humanity or earth is actually not all this material
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thing like uranium gold. Because uranium, there are far more uranium in the oceans than on the land,
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right? You have 4.5 billion tons of uranium in the ocean. You have only 17 million tons of that.
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Gold, copper, what do you want on the ocean? It's all there except they're in very dilute form.
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Clearly. So the ultimate resource actually is not that. It's the human mind. It's the innovation part
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of it. I think I like that principle a lot. It fits very well in terms of saying that it's all matter of
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cost. Even oil. Most, I don't know if any, any of you know, the audience know that 50 to 60 percent of
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the, the, I mean all, actually all the oil that you already drilled, the drill hole. Yeah, you can only
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pull out 40 to 50 percent of it. 60 percent of that remains in it. Because, simply because there's not
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enough pressure to get it out. This is why the, the idea of a biogenic oil is interesting. It's true,
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clearly true. It's all matter of cost, really. Because this thing has to form way inside the
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earth, the mantle, which is 50 to 100, 100 miles, right? Human, how deep have we ever drilled?
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Only the skin, which is only five miles maximum, five to, you know, six miles basically. That's
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at most that we can drill. And then all this stuff has to permeate into the reservoir. I, I got this
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information from the top. People that physically have to look for oil every day. One of my friends,
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Joseph Lime Cooler from Beacon Energy, Offshore Energy. Those are the guys who work day in and day
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out to bring us the energy actually, the oil that we need. So why, why don't most people know this?
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Why do most people think that the, the gasoline in their car was by definition...
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Have to be limited. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That there's, that there's just a tiny amount and it's,
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it's going away. We'll never find more. The world is full of untruth and half-truths,
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right? That's the whole problem, right? That's why for so long, even the idea that we are not
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limited and bounded by availability of, uh, let's say gasoline, petroleum or coal. Coal now,
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they won't allow us to use, right? As you know, in COP meeting in Dubai that just ended a day ago,
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they just physically declared themselves that we should stop using fossil fuel. Basically,
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petroleum, natural gas, and even coal. I mean, these people are insane now, really insane.
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I think they're going to harm more people with their own delusion. Plus, they always remember,
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these are people who actually don't represent the majority. Since when are this put up to work?
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It's always about this minority, the tyranny of the few, always robbing the whole census,
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the good census of the good people. This is part of the reason why as a scientist, I also speak out.
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Feel, I mean, not afraid of anything except for just telling the truth. And I'm glad to have this
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opportunity to say such thing in, in your show. So, I mean, if we haven't been told the truth about
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where hydrocarbons come from, and we haven't, I mean, I've never met a single person in my life
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who said, wait a second, they're not all fossil fuels, then we keep hearing there's a scientific
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consensus on climate change. Every scientist believes the same thing about it, believes Al
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Gore and John Kerry. Maybe that's not true either? Oh, that I can tell you, please. Thank you for
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asking that question, Tucker. I've been working on this subject of CO2 causing climate change or
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what other factors we can ask that cause climate to change for close to as long as since my postdoctoral
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year 1991, right? So it's about 32, 31 years, 32 years. And on this question, I think we have a very
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definitive answer. What we know now is CO2 ain't gonna cost nothing. It's not gonna change much of
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the climatic system, which means it won't change the speed of the hurricane. It won't change the
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how fast or how frequent tornado form. It won't, it won't even actually make any difference to the
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polar bear population. It's all conservation issue, right, on polar bear. It won't even cause
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how much fish you don't catch or catch, you know. It won't even cause what they call ocean acidification.
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It won't even cause this problem that they claim. It's all artificial. Everything they do,
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it's all dream from their model and the tyranny of the few again. That those few people just dream
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of this scary story that is just ain't true. And then when you come down to the most responsible
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group for this kind of bad stuff, I was reminded by my colleague Dr. Ronan Connolly and Michael
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Connolly, my two co-workers with me on my group, is to say that since, you know, since I work so
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carefully and I have about more than a hundred scientists the last three years alone working with
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me, so I don't speak on behalf of them, I speak on behalf of myself. My view is that the UNIPCC,
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United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, is one of the primary problem,
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which means they have been misleading people. They've been using authority of science,
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which is not true, right? It's all governmental hackers, basically, right? People like John
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Kerry, who I guess can barely take a proper physics class who keep claiming that greenhouse effect is
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so simple, right? And then he refused to explain how does it work, right? I mean, he did all of that
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that is very terrible, that really embarrassing to America. He did that in Bali in Indonesia several years
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back. That is just so embarrassing. Do you think he can explain how it works?
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No, I don't think so. Even Al Gore, who claimed to know something about science, I challenged Al Gore.
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I did some of that in his face, actually. I was lucky enough to be in one of those Wall Street Journal
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eco-conference, and I was giving, you know, setting up with all the UC Santa Barbara students,
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please make sure when the question comes out, give me the mic, because I was making friends with them
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the night before. I explained now my details of my work. So I got the mic and asked questions about Al Gore,
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because one of the primary sad things that they refused to recognize, that I know you know that in
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even great school sciences. CO2 is a gas of life. When you have more CO2, the plant kingdom, the whole
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ecology, even the oceans, gonna have more, basically, ability, more fishes, more everything.
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More life. More life, essentially. That's why it's called gas of life. And these people want to
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demonize it as some gas that can cause global warming, can cause hurricanes to run faster or
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weaker. I don't know what they want. To have more rain, more droughts, and all this other nonsense that
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they claim. All of that, it just ain't so. That's the problem. By the way, this is how serious I am.
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I check everything they say. I check. As a scientist, you cannot just dismiss them. You cannot laugh at
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them. You cannot, you know, chide them. You cannot just make joke of them. You check everything. So as
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a very serious scientist, and I published scientific papers refuting all of these arguments. Scientific
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papers maybe mean nothing to the average people, but it's really important. It's like a document,
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that you have to document and then put out the proper scientific arguments about what is right,
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what is wrong. So that's what we have been doing at my particular center called series-sign.com.
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So anybody who wants more information about this, please go to the website, right, and study what
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we do there. Because we are the one that is truly independent from any funding agency, any money that you
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could possibly give me. Like Bill Gates, please don't give me money. Thank you. And all Al Gore,
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please don't give me money. Don't give me any money if you tell me what to do. You know, even some of your
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money, I might not want it. But the point is that I want to be independent, just like you. In the media, I want to be
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fearless. I've just set my own agenda. You don't tell me what to research either. I research what I
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want to research. So we've been researching on many, many topics. So on the climate change issue,
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I'm fully convinced. After all these years, even though we may not know exactly what is causing
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climate change, we suspect it's the sun. We have a lot of evidence to show that it's probably the sun.
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Very high percentage, you know, like I would say 90 percent, we're sure, but not 100 percent. But
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we know carbon dioxide is not the gas, it's not what you call like your thermometer in your room,
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can adjust up and down that you can set the temperature to be whatever level you want it.
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First of all, they can never tell us what temperature do they want it at. What is the temperature you want
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to set the global temperature? Al Gore has not been able to answer that. John Kerry has not been able to
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answer that because we know the temperature from the coldest in Siberia to the desert in Sahara.
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I mean, these are huge, at least 100 degree or more kind of differences. Yes. I mean, who are you to
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tell me which temperature is the correct temperature where you guys are talking like that? They are
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talking as if they are pseudo-God, they're God themselves. I mean, these people are so ambitious that
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in some sense, I think we have to keep their ambition down a little bit. I mean, these people are not
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contented, just like what you put out there. You cannot be ambitious when you're contented. But
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these people are so out of their mind in some sense that I think it's misleading. And somebody
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had to speak out against them. I think you are one of those who consistently point out their hypocrisy,
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right? And I really find that the whole problem of this global warming is a complete nothing,
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which means we should do nothing about it. Just go on and live life and adapt to it, right?
00:14:37.920
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So what I, here's, of course I agree completely, but here's what I don't understand. Global temperatures have
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dramatically fluctuated within the period that humans left records. I mean, not that long ago.
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I mean, there are cities underwater because sea levels have risen within recorded history.
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The signs of the glaciers are all around us. So that was all before the internal combustion engine.
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How do they explain that? This is, this is the problem. They, they admitted,
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a lot of them admitted. They willingly admitted. You can read all the- You can't deny it. I mean,
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we had glaciers and then they melted because of global warming. They are forced to confess. I mean,
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these are the confession time. It's the sun, actually, that does a lot of this. The glacier,
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like there's a period called Little Ice Age, you know, from about 1300 to 1900, you know, very cold.
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And then there's a beautiful warm period from 880 to about 1200. You know, it was warm. I mean,
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you can grow wine in England, right? And now you cannot grow wine, right? Things like that. I mean,
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Greenland was green back then. But now it's full of glaciers. Ice is coming in. So what are you
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talking about exactly? And it was the sun, actually. The sun fit quite well. As far as we know,
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in terms of deduct, deducing the information of how does the sun, how, how bright was it? How dim was it?
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Basically, just like that. Just the amount of light coming out from the sun. Very tiny percentage,
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by the way. Very small. It's on the order of less than a percent. But it's more than enough because
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there's another effect that is very, very important. It's basically because the sun,
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the earth is forced to go around the sun. And then the orbit changed ever so slightly because of
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perturbation from all the other planets. Yes. You know, Jupiter, Saturn, and even Venus and Mars,
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they're actually controlling what we do. And the moon, of course, is very important.
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But that other factors, the orbits, plus the changes of the sun by itself, between how bright,
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how dim it is, these two factors can explain just about everything that we know.
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All the data that I have, actually. So I've been stuck. This is why I was so fascinated in
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in studying this issue. I spent my whole life, actually, studying this. Nothing but doing just this.
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And the more I understand, the more I think that, wow, it's just a gap to be filled in.
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We have too much information. And then these people come along, say that CO2 is causing everything.
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I check. I check. Oh, maybe they're right. I check. As a scientist, I have to check them.
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But then it's not even close. I mean, these people are talking about things like this.
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I mean, there's a famous phrase by a very famous Wisconsin meteorologist. His name is
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Professor Reed Bryson. He's one of the father of climatology, really.
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He just say that you go out and then you might as well, if you think CO2 is so,
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then you might as well spit into the air and then see what happened to the airflow.
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He was just basically saying that CO2 is nothing. It cannot cause the climate to change or anything.
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It doesn't change anything, actually. It's the sun.
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Why do you think the most important things that you should talk about? They never talk about that.
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They always want to average the data. The most important thing they should talk about, you know what?
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It's the season. No two winter are the same. No two summers are the same.
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And they never explain that. It's actually the orbits with the sun changing it ever so slightly.
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And I'm not talking. I have published papers, papers and papers and papers like that,
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on all this to show and document why and how. That's what the fun part of doing science.
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It's not only chit-chatting, hand-waving like crazy.
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You have to be. Even though I may look like one now, but I'm always very calm when you write down.
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You know, like every time I have to write a paper, I always tell my wife, please,
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don't disturb me for a few days. I'll be back. Things like that. Of course, working at home,
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Is there any way to predict what climate change will be based on the sun?
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Actually, you can because of the orbit. The only thing we don't know is how to predict the sun changes
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by itself because the magnetism, you know, just the magnetic field on the sun is too complicated.
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The sun is the magnetized ball, right? It's a gas, hot gas. It's about, you know,
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the magnetic field is so strong. It's 10,000 times stronger than the earth. The earth is also
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a magnet, a bar magnet basically. It's one gauss. We have 10,000 gauss at least on the sun.
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So it's a very different property and it works very differently because it's heated by basically
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a thermonuclear reaction inside the sun. So it created all kinds of hot gas behavior
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that is very difficult to try to master or even to model using mathematical equations.
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Actually, it's much easier to study the earth than to do the sun. So that's part of the problem
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in scientific tasks, the physics tasks. It's very difficult. But then we learn a lot. We learn a lot
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through just watching the sun. I mean, Galileo Galilei, right? He pointed his telescope. He was smart enough.
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First, he pointed to Jupiter, to the moon, right? Jupiter. Then he saw the moon, right? He saw four moons around it.
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And then he's smart that he goes the next day to watch it again. He watched and then he says
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started to move. By the way, there's a famous story of Galileo Galilei. We'll talk about it someday.
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When he wrote that down, initially it was in Italian. When he realized he discovered something
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so unique, he changed the language to Latin. And the next day, yeah, you know, I got it, man. The good
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one. You know, so he started writing in Latin, precise language, okay? But anyway, for the sun,
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it's really so complicated that actually I've been studying this actually as long as you know me.
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I mean, I studied this for so long. We know a lot. I even wrote a popular book actually to try to explain
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why that during a period of the sunspot, so Galileo Galilei started in 1609, 1610 or so. So we have about
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now 413 years of data. But there's a period that deep inside the little ice age, 1645 to 1715,
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is called the Monder Minimum. Because during that period, the sunspot almost all disappeared,
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especially in the northern hemisphere. It disappeared completely. Nobody know why. And that's why
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the French astronomer, famous people like Cassini, the one that the Cassini spacecraft, he was observing
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at that time. He said, man, this Galileo guy must be on either drinking too much or lying or things
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like that. He said there's a lot of sunspot, but when we observe at this time, we didn't see nothing.
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What's wrong? But it's an actual phenomenon, right? My friend, my good friend, which is the number one
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world sunspot historian, he just wrote email to me, Douglas Hoyt. He actually was the master of this,
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collecting all the sunspot data, going back to all the major libraries, you know, from Galileo first
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point all the way to present point. Basically found that this phenomenon is true because during that
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period, the sunspot was not there, not because nobody was watching. There was at least observed
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80 percent of the time during the 70 years. You see, it's so unique, that period. But now we're beginning
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to try to learn what happened there. So during that period, we really think that the sun was so much
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dimmer. It was substantially dimmer. This is why you have this Little Ice Age phenomenon.
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All the Thames River were froze. You know, we have the Thames River in England, well-known,
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and then all the ice skating thing, you know, in Holland, all the different culture. And then
00:23:25.440
these are all real actual phenomenon. And then this day, they're trying to say that maybe Little
00:23:30.560
Ice Age is not Little Ice Age. They even try to change that in scientific field, actually. So this was
00:23:35.920
very, very puzzling for me. Why would they try and change that? Oh, I don't know. Because they
00:23:40.480
want to say that CO2 is controlling everything. They kind of want to have CO2 as the prime driver
00:23:45.200
of everything. This is part of the problem that I find. Well, that's not science. That's lying.
00:23:50.240
Ah, it's bad. It's bad in science. This is why in science now, I'd rather say this thing outright.
00:23:56.080
I want, I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered and answers that cannot be questioned.
00:24:01.280
Because these people are just offering you the answer, and then you should just shut up like you
00:24:05.520
say. Don't ask any questions. Don't criticize. Don't even bother to think. Just accept what we say.
00:24:11.920
I mean, you may have known that actually, if you want to get there, I can talk about this,
00:24:16.240
because this is rather famous, because the other person is still around. He's the one who's shouting
00:24:20.320
up and down these last two days to say that, oh, we must stop fossil fuel. GOP is so evil. We must stop all
00:24:26.720
of them because we are the, GOP are the evil, uh, political bodies in America that causes all
00:24:32.640
this fossil fuel to be, we are using fossil fuel and all that. His name is Professor Michael Mann.
00:24:39.200
He created a paper. We call it the hockey shtick.
00:24:44.240
He basically say that the temperature history, first of all, the true temperature history looked like this.
00:24:49.040
It was very warm from 800 AD. Let's say warm, warm, and then it cools down. About 1300 started to go down. Cool.
00:24:57.280
And then since about 1900 century, it started to warm back up. Way, way before CO2 is important, okay?
00:25:04.400
That's another puzzle that they never want to explain. That looked like this. That's the real story.
00:25:08.960
Michael Mann came along, said that, well, he used mathematical algorithm, okay?
00:25:15.680
You can use fancy words, but believe me, it's just mathematical algorithm that he produced a shtick
00:25:22.400
for one time, 880 to about 1900 AD. It's all flat because it changed. It changed very tiny amount.
00:25:28.240
So small that actually it doesn't mean anything. 0.1 or 0.2 degrees Celsius. So small.
00:25:33.440
It doesn't mean the one that I talk about, the change is one degree at least, you know,
00:25:37.040
to five, six times bigger than what he say. And then he just say it is like this. And then it warm up
00:25:42.400
because of the blade, which is the warming because of rising carbon dioxide. But he forgot to explain
00:25:47.920
to you. This warming of the temperature started way before even the human part of the atmospheric
00:25:55.040
carbon dioxide could be anything meaningful. This is part of the problem. It's all been crazy from day
00:26:00.000
one. When this thing was published in 1999, I was the first few guys who raised a hand at the back of
00:26:07.360
the class and say, excuse me, professor, man, he used to be my friend, by the way. Now he will never
00:26:11.680
answer me. He used to exchange email with me because, you know, we more or less share the same
00:26:16.240
passion, want to understand things. Now he just say that his story, his story is the only one that is
00:26:21.120
correct. But it's not bared out by any data that we know. That's the problem. It's all mathematical
00:26:26.640
products. This is how scary the whole world can be. And United Nations, the IPCC group that I mentioned,
00:26:33.120
promoted his work, turned into a major hero because he has solved one of this old puzzle problem that
00:26:41.200
climatologists over millennia has been trying to solve since the day of the Greeks to try to understand
00:26:47.200
how climate change. And this guy come along, say that it looked like this. Only CO2 does it. And that's the problem.
00:26:54.400
So, I mean, it just ain't so what you're I mean, some of this is very complex, but in the way you're describing
00:27:01.120
and if he's saying the warming period began before there was a meaningful addition of CO2 into the
00:27:06.880
atmosphere caused by humans, even I can understand that. Yes. Right. That's the truth. So we were in
00:27:12.160
a meeting here at TCN the other day and I looked around the room and every other person had a kind
00:27:17.280
of ruddy vitality, pink cheeks, alertness, bright eyes, full mental acuity and a cheerfulness you could
00:27:27.680
almost smell. And I asked, why does everyone look so good? And part of the answer, of course,
00:27:34.320
is they like what we do for a living. It's really interesting. We think it's important.
00:27:38.720
But another reason everyone looks so good is because they'd all had a great night sleep.
00:27:45.840
I'm not making this up. Almost everybody here uses a new sleep technology from a company called
00:27:52.720
Eat Sleep. They sent it to us and everyone here loves it. It's called The Pod. It's a high-tech
00:27:59.360
mattress cover effectively that you add to your existing bed. You don't need a new bed or anything
00:28:03.520
like that. You just throw this over what you have. What it does is adjust the temperature
00:28:09.760
of your bed, warmer or cooler, depending on what you want. And it maintains an ideal sleeping
00:28:14.800
environment all night long. So I didn't know this, but as you progress through different phases of
00:28:19.760
sleep, your body's needs change. And eight sleep automatically keeps things exactly where they
00:28:26.080
should be in the sweet spot through the entire night. It's been proven to increase the quality
00:28:32.480
of your sleep, the amount you sleep every night. It improves your recovery time from physical exertion,
00:28:38.400
and it may even improve your cognitive performance and enhance your overall health. It seems to be doing
00:28:44.640
that in our office. So it learns and adapts to your sleep patterns over time and automatically adjusts
00:28:50.160
the temperatures throughout the night through each phase of sleep. And it does this independently for
00:28:56.720
each sleeper on either side of the bed. That's pretty cool. So you can sleep well and feel much better
00:29:04.160
and be more effective the next morning as we are here. Try it for yourself. Go to 8sleep.com
00:29:11.040
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00:29:18.160
with zero obligation for a month. And if you don't like it, just send it back. Again, that's 8sleep.com
00:29:23.680
slash Tucker. Better sleep today and look great in your morning meetings as our guys do. So I would assume
00:29:31.840
that lots of scientists who do this for a living might be asking the same question. Why don't they speak up?
00:29:36.800
This is the problem. The whole problem in science this day is related to funding, how science is funded.
00:29:44.640
That philosophy, I wish to not get too much into it. This is part of the reason why I want to be totally
00:29:50.880
independent. I get out of this whole system, right? But it's how science is. It's about funding. Even if you don't get
00:29:57.920
money directly, it will influence the graduate students and on and on and so forth. All these
00:30:02.880
other related effects, you know? And many people are afraid to speak up. But I tell you, if you really
00:30:09.760
put all the scientists to an honest kind of polling if it's science, but science is not about polling too.
00:30:15.120
All it takes is one to be correct. Yes. That's the problem, right? Einstein used when he formulated the
00:30:20.640
famous general relativity or special relativity, actually, that was criticized. That basically
00:30:26.320
talk about speed of light is constant. So time and space are relative. Yes. Right? Time can be dilated.
00:30:32.320
Space is also slightly different because the speed of light is constant. Special relativity is based on
00:30:37.360
that concept. Then 100 of these Berlin academicians tried to wrote a pamphlet, say that Einstein is wrong,
00:30:44.320
but never awful. Why? What is the details that is wrong? And then Einstein indeed answered like this.
00:30:51.440
Why would you need a hundred? You know, if I were to be wrong, one would suffice. I mean, that's the
00:30:57.760
that's the theme of the science. Science is so bad because it's so totally upside down, inside out.
00:31:04.560
Covid is another case, you know. So let's stick to climate stuff. People are afraid to speak up. I don't
00:31:09.840
know why, actually. I was young. I had to worry about my three kids, where they eat and all that
00:31:14.640
stuff. You know, buffet all the time. Just kidding. The greatest American invention. This is truly
00:31:21.280
entrepreneur, by the way. Anyway, we have enough food. No problem. That's why food, I don't think
00:31:26.720
is also a problem in this world. Even material resources, right? All you think is have to think
00:31:31.200
like Julian Simon type. You know, we can generate everything. The only problem we left is lack of imagination,
00:31:37.840
narrow-mindedness, and all this anti-America sentiment. Put it this way. America is among
00:31:43.120
the best hope for humanity, you know, to put forward. We have the foundation document, the
00:31:47.360
constitution, for God's sake. That is the most beautiful thing that we could ever imagine.
00:31:52.400
And why don't we use it properly, right? People just trashing on it every day, right? Anyway, I digress.
00:32:00.640
Anyway, so yes, I think science is a problem now because of funding structure. People won't speak out. I don't
00:32:06.720
know why. I think it's natural for people to be afraid, but you can only be afraid for so long.
00:32:12.000
For me, I was frustrated because I was not afraid ever since I was in science. Because I'm in science,
00:32:16.880
because I love science. This is why, from my own perspective, I'm just very sad to see that science
00:32:22.560
is being trampled by all these other non-science forces, you know? That's why when I look at COVID also,
00:32:28.320
I cannot stand by and say nothing. On COVID-19, there are so many things wrong with it. That's why I want
00:32:33.520
to pre-advertise. With my group, series.science.com, we work with a bunch of people. One of the good
00:32:38.800
guests for you potential will be Professor Harvey Rich. He said he's been interviewed by you twice.
00:32:43.280
Yes. Even guys like Bob Malone, we work together, produce a paper. So when the paper come out,
00:32:47.680
hopefully we can have them on your show so they can tell more stories. We want to provide the
00:32:53.600
medical community or even the world to document this episode of Dark Ages in medical sciences.
00:32:59.360
Something went terribly wrong. The mask never really worked. The vaccine never really worked.
00:33:04.400
All of this doesn't work. The lockdown doesn't work. And why are we doing this? Now they're
00:33:09.280
trying to scare with another news scare all over the world now. Newspaper. This morning,
00:33:13.600
I just got one newspaper from my sister who has to start, oh, they start masking up in Malaysia now.
00:33:19.520
Because cases have to increase. The usual story. I laugh in a serious way because I see this is
00:33:26.560
another one of those attempts again to try to scare people. So I did digress now. Science is just so
00:33:32.160
complicated now that every aspect of the science that I look at, I've become very unhappy. Science is
00:33:37.840
no longer able to do where science leads. This is the theme of my series that's science.com. We
00:33:43.840
with few only colleagues. I don't have enough funding. I just hope to get as many donations by the way.
00:33:48.720
Donate but don't tell us anything. Do anything. Trust us because we are decent scientists. You can look at our
00:33:54.560
publication record that we are able to produce the most interesting and pure work. Like IPCC.
00:34:00.960
They have to reply to us. Two years ago, we published a very important paper. One of my
00:34:06.000
journalists, friend, a colleague wrote a paper, newspaper article. And then he go and ask IPCC,
00:34:12.480
why are you guys not signing this paper? They use the excuse to say that, oh, these people published late.
00:34:17.440
We have a deadline here, red line. Oh, if you don't publish before some date, like 2021, okay, like
00:34:24.000
January or 2021, then we won't include your work. So we published in August, so they won't include my
00:34:29.680
work. But they forgot to say that they are, they claim themselves, they proclaim, UNIPCC proclaim
00:34:35.520
themselves to be the best of the scientific world, produce the most updated and all that. But immediately,
00:34:41.840
their report came out, they already outdated because they haven't included my work, which is the most
00:34:47.520
comprehensive review of how the sun affects the climate. That's the work we did. So this, this year,
00:34:53.040
just two months ago, we published two more paper convincingly show that even the thermometer data that
00:34:59.680
they show you is, it's not what it is. It's actually not measuring climate. It's measuring urban heat
00:35:06.400
island changes. Something that I think everybody can understand. If you go to the inner part of the
00:35:12.240
big city, like TC is one of the best examples. I have graph to show that you go there, inner city is
00:35:17.600
much warmer than outside because of concrete retaining all the heat or you change all the surfaces or the,
00:35:23.520
you know, the surface become impervious between there's no breathing, no water going in and out,
00:35:28.560
things like that. And it's what we show is that it's not a phenomenon just on local science. You average
00:35:34.320
over this, you can see the effect all over the Northern Hemisphere. This is very powerful new
00:35:39.440
work that we spend. So concrete and asphalt raise the temperatures more than CO2. And that's what
00:35:44.960
they're measuring. And then they tell you this is global temperature. And then we provide an alternative.
00:35:51.040
We say, why don't we go look at rural station that is available? And guess what our result found?
00:35:55.840
Completely different story from, from the picture, the narrative that's coming out from this data set,
00:36:01.920
thermometer data that show that combined urban and rural. Okay. We show rural only. We can tell
00:36:08.800
you that you can immediately offer a different answer. For example, it's the sun that does it,
00:36:14.160
that does it. We show that, but we don't know that is the answer. We just simply show you that
00:36:19.920
the IPCC and all these so-called scientists from NASA, NOAA, and all of them are not doing their due
00:36:26.560
diligence. They are putting you very bad quality data product. Not only that, they hide it. Some of
00:36:32.800
them, it's so difficult to get the data. Okay? We- But it should never be difficult to get data.
00:36:38.640
I'm sorry, Tucker. This is how the problem in science now is so many serious- But I thought
00:36:43.280
transparency of data was science. I was hoping. I always believe in that. That's why
00:36:49.440
everything that we publish is there. Because we got it from somewhere. Here's the data. Use it.
00:36:55.360
Check us. If we're wrong, tell us we're wrong. That is one thing that I can always promise you. I'm
00:36:59.680
not here to try to gain favor or anything. If I'm wrong and I don't know, I tell you, I don't know,
00:37:04.320
Tucker. A lot of these things, I really under a lot of careful consideration, really a lot of deep
00:37:09.920
meditation, thinking about this topic. What I think is very problematic, I'm so glad to have this
00:37:15.040
opportunity to go this far, to be able to talk for this long now, is that really the IPCC product
00:37:21.040
is actually substandard. Of course, they have a different mandate. Their mandate is political,
00:37:26.480
right? To provide policy. We understand that. But how many people really understand that
00:37:31.600
pure science doesn't support anything they say? I mean, in the beginning of this COP28 meeting,
00:37:37.200
the chairman, or this guy from UAE, United Arab Emirates, the chairman, I don't know his name,
00:37:42.320
Sultan Al-Jaber, or something. He was saying that there's no scientific reasoning to say that we
00:37:47.520
should face up. He's right. But then he back off because of all this everybody's hurt mentality.
00:37:54.800
Everybody's doing the mad thing. Everybody, science is not about that. They all agree now. They all
00:37:59.600
agree to face up, right? For some kind of agreement. You know, that everybody declared that they're going
00:38:04.800
to do that, that they're going to face up. I don't even know how, actually. Why? Why are you doing this?
00:38:10.640
And then one of the claims is that they're going to triple the amount of solar and wind power. That is
00:38:16.240
a sad story. You know, of the amount that we spend that we can document, some 3, 3.6 trillion dollars,
00:38:24.560
they spent almost 2 trillion dollars on solar and wind power over the last, I don't know,
00:38:29.760
5, 10 years or so. And then what they did is that they spent more of the money, 2 trillion on
00:38:35.360
solar and wind. And solar and wind can only account for only 3% of the world power. 85% from fossil fuel,
00:38:42.160
as you can see, hydropower and nuclear. Nuclear is another puzzle. I checked with all my nuclear
00:38:48.240
expert friends that have been working for years on nuclear power. Nuclear power is one of the saddest
00:38:54.800
stories. I believe that we actually have almost a solution in hand. Not the fusion, of course. It's
00:39:01.200
you know, the fast reactor or the good generation of nuclear power. Peaceful use of that won't even
00:39:08.960
generate nuclear weapons. We can do all of that technology. The only thing barrier is red tapes,
00:39:13.840
environmentally scared of radiation. All these other problems. We almost have all of that in hand.
00:39:20.720
The power can last. One estimate shows that if we were to use it at the demand of that by 2050,
00:39:26.880
we can have enough power for 2,700 years. That's far more than any of the fossil fuel can promise.
00:39:33.280
And then, and we're still not doing it. We're not doing it. America is so far behind now.
00:39:38.800
We are, we just make one in Georgia, one of the nuclear plants. That's so over cost because of all
00:39:45.200
the red tape. That is so embarrassing. They are numbers. I mean, it costing a thousand or two thousand
00:39:51.680
times even more than what Korea and you know, even Korea now is, is a major guy who make this nuclear
00:39:58.480
power plant for, for different, any country who wants to do it. Right? I mean, Korea, India, they are making
00:40:04.720
a much cheaper cost. And the design, French designs are the best, right? French. They're all doing that.
00:40:10.960
And we're not doing it. China, of course, left and right doing that. But we're not doing anything.
00:40:15.840
Oh, we try to tell you that we got to shut off fossil fuel, increase solar and wind. Are you joking?
00:40:21.120
Even three times more will be 9%. I don't know. Can you turn on your, your, your light only 9% or now?
00:40:29.200
You should shut all this light off now. You're overusing it.
00:40:32.000
And it destroys the, the actual environment. Exactly. Wind farms.
00:40:35.200
This is a kind of a very bad incentive that they don't realize. It's about this
00:40:39.920
kind of people that is so out of their mind, in my view, that they really should be cautious.
00:40:45.840
Somebody should just ping on their head. Guys, don't, don't, don't keep saying those things.
00:40:52.240
You better think twice or consult somebody that knows something that is honest, you know?
00:40:57.520
You spent 31 years at Harvard. Would you be able to say this out loud at Harvard?
00:41:02.960
Actually, back then, I also didn't care. But, uh, most of the time I get called into
00:41:07.520
the director's office, this and that. They're always trying to tell, oh, why are you saying that?
00:41:11.440
Why are you saying this? I say, well, I'm a scientist. I should say whatever I want to say.
00:41:15.520
Not only that, the problem in, when I was at Harvard, part of the reason I quit,
00:41:19.520
as I try to explain is about JAP requirement, but another one is a bit of censorship.
00:41:25.360
I can only do certain things. I cannot do certain things. Like, I would never be able to write paper
00:41:30.320
on COVID-19. I would never be able to work, work, uh, on, let's say environmental air pollution issues,
00:41:36.480
you know, like, you know, so-called NOx or SOx and all these other things, or mercury and things like that.
00:41:41.040
I have a lot, I study a lot on those issues because I personally are concerned. So I dig into the literature,
00:41:47.280
one thing after another, basically because I sleep very little. So I really do a lot of things. I flip
00:41:52.160
every rock, pebbles, anything you want. So I study a lot. I produce a result that is good enough that
00:41:57.360
can be making a lot of scientific, but I never publish them because they simply won't allow.
00:42:02.320
They wouldn't allow you? Yes. It's about a matter of allowing because they say it doesn't fit
00:42:07.440
the theme of the Center for Astrophysics. So I don't want to talk back about the institution,
00:42:11.680
but it is the finest astrophysics institution in the world. In terms of instrument building,
00:42:17.360
in terms of technology, we can produce the best. You know, you often look at the
00:42:23.280
x-ray picture of the sun. Those are from very fine camera that we built that with multi-coding layers,
00:42:29.680
because the x-rays, they come in very slowly and then they're going to diffuse, come out,
00:42:34.240
but we make very fine way to catch them so they can come out so the images are crystal clear. You
00:42:39.120
can see all the structure on the sun. It's made by my center. They are good scientists,
00:42:44.560
except that when it comes down to a larger picture of science, shh, shh, don't say this,
00:42:49.280
don't say that, this and that, and then all of that. This is why even at Harvard, I quit taking
00:42:54.480
money from NASA and NSF, all these other places, in 2004, because I'm beginning to think that
00:43:00.800
science being so unaccountable, funded by taxpayer, that all these people, it's so unconscionable.
00:43:07.040
So I personally chose that. That is nobody to blame but myself, but I chose to take only from
00:43:12.800
foundation who are willing to give me money, right? So I wrote those kind of proposal and then got to go
00:43:18.080
through the director's office, this and that, right? I have a very, very happy and fruitful
00:43:22.560
career. Everybody can look up my publication list. It's very long. And not only that, it's not the
00:43:27.360
number that counts. It's the quality of the paper. I always want to remind people, I don't like talking
00:43:32.800
about how many thousands of papers you write, this and that. It's not important. Which paper that is
00:43:37.520
really important for certain issues, that's important that you, if you are able to show that, that's good.
00:43:42.320
That's what I mean. All my papers are basically under a lot of this serious, serious thinking and
00:43:47.680
serious evaluation, checking and rechecking before I would care to write about anything.
00:43:52.000
Because you don't want to write anything that's wrong tomorrow. You want something that can write.
00:43:57.040
But science is basically garbage can now. These scientific papers. I categorically would even
00:44:02.640
make this statement. I will make the statement that about 80 to 90 percent of the paper published in
00:44:08.160
so-called climate science today should not be published. But everybody have NSF grant. Everybody have all these
00:44:17.120
grants. You see how the inflation goes? You know, just like the other day, you hear that Yale
00:44:21.760
University, you know, a large part of it, most of the students on 2022 or something, all got grade A
00:44:28.800
grade, you know? Grade A, they diluted the grade. But Harvey Rich assured me that in medical sciences
00:44:33.840
and hard sciences, Harvey Rich is the professor at Yale University. He teach in the medical school.
00:44:38.640
So he said, no, not true. So he tried to assure me he has quality. Maybe not in his class,
00:44:44.960
but Harvey, not in any other class, right? Anyway.
00:44:47.760
So I want to ask you, this is a kind of last topic, which is not related to this,
00:44:51.520
but we talked about it off the air, and I think it's really interesting.
00:44:54.800
You were telling me that you see God or evidence of God in math.
00:45:02.240
Well, can you explain what you were saying? And maybe I misread what you were saying.
00:45:06.800
No, no, no, no, you did not. I mean, I, I have been closer and closer to God in the sense
00:45:12.320
that because it takes me a long time. I'm rather rebellious. You know, I have to say,
00:45:16.240
damn it, God, you got to prove it to me. Show it to me, buddy. Just kidding.
00:45:21.520
I'm sorry to anybody. No, no. No offense. But I really say it in that way.
00:45:25.440
You know, you talk to yourself in a sense. But in many, many moments in history of physics
00:45:30.480
or mathematics, things come out. You see, mathematics, you know, is this very pure word
00:45:35.040
that it seems to have no connection to real world physics.
00:45:37.600
That's right. It's true. It's a complex number. It's one of them. But it appears in quantum
00:45:41.360
mechanics, right? It's so beautiful. But one of the things that sometimes you see in the equation
00:45:46.560
is so amazing. When you formulate, you know, maybe it's not right. Maybe it's this and that.
00:45:50.400
Maybe, you know, you doubt yourself. But one of the most beautiful equations was the one that
00:45:54.720
derived by Paul Dirac. He's a professor at Cambridge University, but he retired in Florida,
00:45:59.600
by the way. He died in Florida, Tallahassee. I mean, it's a refuge for him because he doesn't
00:46:05.600
like to talk. He would sit there for five days. He don't talk. One day, all of a sudden,
00:46:09.520
he talked. But anyway, he formulated that. He's a beautiful man. He, you know, Paul Dirac,
00:46:14.080
he formulated this relativistic equation for electrons. But in one of the equations,
00:46:19.200
the solution comes out to be a negative sign. Not only that, there's a square root involved.
00:46:24.160
So there's strange behavior. There's a negative sign in law. But it has to have the exact property,
00:46:29.040
like an electron and all that stuff. How come? Everybody say, you're crazy, you're stupid,
00:46:36.640
this and that, right? He's not even weighed. He didn't, no sweat, buddy. He just say, I am right.
00:46:44.720
Many years later, a few years later, it is shown in Caltech by Carl Anderson to show there's
00:46:49.920
actually such a thing called positron. You know, the opposite, the brothers of an electron.
00:46:54.720
That's such a thing. And then if you ask yourself, how is it possible? Right? There's something,
00:47:01.440
this is out of nowhere. Where does this thing come from? And then in mathematical sciences,
00:47:06.880
there's a lot of things like this, like geometry. There's an even more famous thing about in
00:47:11.440
geometry. It's called Calabi-Yau manifold that related to string theory. This thing was basically
00:47:17.840
a revisit of Einstein's general relativity equation, asking itself whether is it possible to have
00:47:24.240
close curvature in space-time that you actually don't require even gravity to be there. And they
00:47:31.440
show that Calabi was trying to prove this Yao, Xing Dong Yao is one of the great mathematicians,
00:47:36.080
right? He's at Harvard, but he retired. Now he go to China, right? He was the one who tried to
00:47:41.360
disprove this thing, but he turns out to be true. That is true that you can have close curvature in space-time
00:47:49.360
that without gravity even. So that added even more reach in this world. That from mathematics to
00:47:56.400
real world, we already have enough hard time understanding Einstein. And this guy added even
00:48:00.800
more. And his discovery was in the seventies and things like that, you know? So there's so many
00:48:05.680
examples and incidents like this. Just have to tell you that you have to bow down. You have to
00:48:10.800
occasionally take a deep breath, you know? There may be some ever presence of these forces,
00:48:16.960
these forces that allow us to illuminate our life. And I tell you, God has given us this,
00:48:22.560
all this light that tell us that we have to follow the light and do the best we can,
00:48:27.600
rather than everyday devouring planet Earth saying that we are the Satan, we are the evil people.
00:48:33.520
You know, these people are constantly trying to, you know, make all of us a lesser human being.
00:48:39.920
I would never allow them anyway. So good luck, you know, for those people like Al Gore and all that,
00:48:45.600
who think that they're high and mighty, right? And trying to always, always lecture us on,
00:48:50.560
got to cut down on fossil fuel because we're going to hurt the planet Earth. I say,
00:48:56.240
Al Gore, do you ever think twice? Who are you to think that you can actually
00:49:01.200
try to save the planet Earth even? Because they always use the word,
00:49:04.240
I'm trying to save the planet Earth. I don't know who gives them the right to save the planet Earth.
00:49:08.720
Same with this experiment that they're trying to do, by the way. The experiment to say that we
00:49:12.480
must cut down CO2 emission. I told you CO2 is good for, you know, for life. Because I asked Al Gore,
00:49:19.120
indeed, when I asked Al Gore the question in UC Santa Barbara, it's what? It's that CO2 is gas of life.
00:49:25.680
Who give you the audacity to cut down this? Then aren't you, are you going to be responsible for the
00:49:30.880
ecological and humanitarian, all this crisis? Even, we know, rising CO2 affects even plants,
00:49:38.000
I don't know, especially food production, right? Maybe not exact number we know, but it does,
00:49:43.440
positively, right? We have technology to help it, better seed, better all this fertilization,
00:49:49.280
all this other thing. But who gives them the idea to do that, to cut down, because it's generally going
00:49:55.200
to be good for life. Because you have to push them around, because nobody should give them the
00:49:59.920
authority. So far, I don't think anyone can answer that question for me. So I tell them to please bow
00:50:05.040
down to God. Really answer to that question first, before you do anything else. Because it's ridiculous
00:50:10.240
for them to keep to claim that they have the upper moral and ethical high ground to try to prescribe
00:50:17.520
everybody to live in certain condition that they chose. But they themselves don't follow the rules.
00:50:22.880
And they tell us to take a bus. Elgo always even tell people to take a bus, Elgo. My God, I say,
00:50:29.360
Elgo, you take a bus from Tennessee to Massachusetts, I'll be waiting for you down there. Please.
00:50:34.560
I mean, this guy is just out of the, out of the, out of this world, man. I'm sorry, Elgo,
00:50:40.240
but you can still call me. Can you, um, Willie Soon, thank you. But before you go,
00:50:46.720
last thing for, for viewers who want to know more about what you do, can you say once again,
00:50:51.600
where they can read it? Yes. Please, uh, uh, I hope that, uh, I don't disappoint anyone,
00:50:56.320
but please come to series-sign.com. And I want to make one plug for my good friend,
00:51:03.120
Hal Shurtleff. As, uh, as I get older and older, including my own kids, my own kids,
00:51:08.400
three kids have been going to the camp constitution at New Hampshire. And we also wanted to invite,
00:51:13.840
uh, uh, uh, Tucker Carlson to come because Vivek Ravaswami came last, last summer. And because we
00:51:20.320
are very, very small group, we are tiny little group called camp constitution. So campconstitution.net.
00:51:26.160
We offer basically family, kind of a Christian kind of a background, but we don't talk about Christ all
00:51:31.440
the time, but we talk about Bibles. We talk about constitution. We talk about science. So I'm the
00:51:36.560
science instructor. I've been doing that for almost six, seven years now. So I've been doing every year,
00:51:41.600
I will give one or two classes, depends on how many, whatever they want me to do, I'll do.
00:51:46.240
And my own kids came to those things. And then, you know, we play, play music. We have campfire.
00:51:51.600
It's a family event. Used to be that focus on kids. But this day, I'm sorry, too many adults
00:51:57.040
started to come. So we have even people like my good friend, uh, Lord Christopher Moncton from England.
00:52:02.880
He spoke twice. So small little group, but if anybody who thinks that, you know, you have the time and even
00:52:09.280
come and learn what we do here and emulate in your own city and towns and all that, you know,
00:52:14.160
people from Wisconsin, please come. People from California, please come. You know, we have it in
00:52:18.880
New Hampshire every year, every summer. We have this camp and it's a very good thing. So campconstitution.net.
00:52:25.520
Okay. And I talked to your friend, Vince, uh, Allison from Maryland. I also called him before I came.
00:52:31.600
He's one of the good guy, right? Yeah. Amazing. Willie Soon, that was the most interesting conversation
00:52:37.200
I've heard in a long time. Well, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks.