On today's show, former US attorney general Patrick Fitzgerald interviews former FBI Director John F. Fitzgerald, who served under President George W. Bush and served as the first black attorney general of the United States. They talk about his early days as a prosecutor, how he got into the job, and what it was like running the DOJ.
00:06:59.500So, you think the genesis of the opposition was your request to Chuck Schumer that he answer questions about encouraging violence against the Supreme Court justice?
00:07:07.200Well, I think that the role I played is epitomized by that, right?
00:07:15.520Public and willing to fight for the right things.
00:07:18.740And Schumer certainly took it to heart and made a big deal out of it.
00:07:21.980And then they just made me into somebody who's...
00:07:24.000The Washington Post had me on the front page of A1 or B1 every day for three or four weeks.
00:08:15.620So, why would Tom Tillis, who was elected in maybe 2012, 14, something like that-ish, but a lot of money spent on that campaign, a lot of Republicans mobilized and didn't get that guy elected in a swing state even then, and a lot of hope presiding in Tom Tillis.
00:08:35.840Why would Tom Tillis be the instrument of your destruction?
00:08:39.360Well, look, I think, you know, I've got to say, oh, the Senate's got to process, respect the process, all that stuff, right?
00:08:47.860So, I met with the guy for 90 minutes.
00:08:50.680You know, by the way, for about a decade, I've done work when Phyllis Schlafly, the late Phyllis Schlafly from whom I worked, one of the things she cared a lot about was patents and protecting individual patent holders and inventors.
00:09:02.320So, for years, we've had patent events.
00:09:04.620One of the participants in the patent events is Tom Tillis all the time because he's good on that issue and we would work with him.
00:09:10.460So, not a stranger in terms of policy stuff to me.
00:09:13.360So, when I met with him, 90 minutes, he railed on J6.
00:09:19.200He said, how could you represent J6 people?
00:09:21.660How stupid do people have to be to go into the Capitol and blah, blah, blah?
00:09:25.560And I said, sir, you know, look, I've looked at this closely.
00:09:29.120It feels like you're not quite paying attention to what happened, right?
00:10:42.920In the Mueller investigation and the Mueller investigation.
00:10:45.260Andrew Weissman is one of these lawyers who is at NYU right now.
00:10:49.060He goes in and out of government and he's basically at the center.
00:10:51.520There's about six or seven of these people that are at the center of coordinating the weaponization of government against the people right now.
00:10:58.320And every time you turn around, you know, I love, I'll give it to you.
00:11:01.040The guy that was the prosecutor in Kosovo before Jack Smith, you know, a special prosecutor, forget his name right now.
00:13:37.480But I don't understand how he couldn't know that.
00:13:41.300It was an insight into the mind of people that are trapped in that understanding.
00:13:45.820And, you know, like the other thing they all said to me is, oh, you must like people that hit cops because you defended people that hit cops.
00:14:09.080My office, my predecessor, did not charge cops, did not charge assaults on police officers because they're only misdemeanors in the stupid D.C. laws.
00:14:18.840And I said, new law, new rule, touch a cop, getting charged with assault, right?
00:14:22.900So stipulate we're all against hitting cops.
00:14:26.440After that, what happened on January 6th, forget about even the day of it.
00:18:20.600My informed, well-informed sense is that DOJ is a bigger mess even than some conspiracy-minded people on the outside like me imagine it is.
00:18:37.960I'm pretty attuned to bureaucracies, right?
00:18:41.060And I've seen the scope of them and see the institutional inertia, like the momentum that they get.
00:18:47.280And I think my office was—my U.S. attorney's office was about this big, Tucker, and it took me 120 days to get this much of my arms, you know, wrapped around this much because this is how big it was.
00:18:59.960It's, you know, Cash's job is this big and DOJ's is this big and the presence is this big.
00:19:04.680So, Mike, answer is the scope is bigger and it is, therefore, much, much worse than people think.
00:19:12.960And I just think it's a—and by the way, one of the reasons I say information is so key, you can't—we can't win the Article III battle fast enough.
00:19:24.920We can fight it and we can eventually win lots of them.
00:19:27.320You can't win it fast enough to get the progress we need in terms of our—so you've got to be doing the information fine.
00:19:33.740For people watching, what's the Article III battle?
00:19:34.760Yeah, the Article III means like the federal courts.
00:19:37.280The president says you can't let people come into the country and then the courts say nationwide injunction and, you know, you're not allowed to do that.
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00:22:16.360The credit card companies are ripping Americans off, and enough is enough.
00:22:21.000This is Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas.
00:22:23.660Our legislation, the Credit Card Competition Act, would help in the grip Visa and MasterCard have on us.
00:22:30.880Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee, and they've been raising it without even telling you.
00:22:38.380This hurts consumers and every small business owner.
00:22:41.320In fact, American families are paying $1,100 in hidden swipe fees each year.
00:22:47.780The fees Visa and MasterCard charge Americans are the highest in the world, double candidates, and eight times more than Europe's.
00:22:55.700That's why I've taken action, but I need your help to help get this passed.
00:23:00.140I'm asking you to call your senator today and demand they pass the Credit Card Competition Act.
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00:27:44.740So I think it's fair to say people who oppose that are against reform.
00:27:48.620Well, if I can, I'd say two things about it.
00:27:51.100One thing I think, as you've talked about before in lots of issues, President Trump represents a different view of America first is the way it's characterized.
00:27:59.000But this notion of of believing in ourselves, our citizens, more than other things, including wars and globalists.
00:28:06.120And I think that I think that's a big pivot.
00:28:07.960And people feel that, as voters obviously did.
00:28:19.580When you see $6.7 billion transferred from the EPA to an organization set up a year before, set up by the same leftist, left-leaning, Democrat-supporting folks that ran the housing tax credit boondoggle from the 90s.
00:32:43.740So when you see the fraud that's going on in Europe and, you know, this is all stuff that the U.S. Attorney and trust me, the U.S. Attorney is already looking at it and you can look at this stuff and say because of the jurisdiction.
00:32:53.860So but it's a big office with a lot of bureaucracy.
00:32:57.240And so what I basically my new job is focused on weaponization.
00:33:01.460The docket is the whole world and the country to say, where have they done wrong and how do we go and get to the bottom of it?
00:34:04.680So you walk down the street in Anacostia and you're like, I went to do an interview in Anacostia and we pulled up and there's an ambulance and all.
00:34:43.040And crime is down 25 percent and the basics are going the right direction.
00:34:47.240So but no, no, that's that woman screeching at me and spitting on me was that's a fruit of the environment that says make anyone who's doing something important into someone toxic and we'll get people to be agitated.
00:38:45.660Using U.S. tax dollars and all these, you know, nice sort of well-meaning Irish Catholic alums around the country who like don't agree with anything that Rosa Brooks says are sending them money.
00:39:15.340And again, until we have the—if you think it's a debate, if it's a debating moment, then you're in one spot.
00:39:21.800If you think it's a battle for the future of the country and the world, then you're in a different moment.
00:39:25.620And that's how I look at what we're seeing going on, and that's why I think some people probably realized he knows how this goes a little more, and so they didn't want me in that spot.
00:39:35.860But I got another spot, so it'll work out.
00:39:41.260I'll just say it one last time because I can't control myself, that you were torpedoed by supposedly conservative Republicans.
00:39:46.260I gave a speech on Tom Tillis's behalf when he ran for the first time for Senate, and I sort of think that, like, you're getting one thing, but almost 100 percent of the time, the person winds up to be John Cornyn or, you know, like a super aggressive liberal posing as a conservative Republican.
00:40:07.560You know, my wife, who's like you, smarter than me, and so she said the other day, why can't we go back to term limits, you know?
00:40:15.480Well, I mean, it's this instinct of, there's something about when they're in for a while, they seem to have figured out, they think they've figured out what's better for everyone.
00:40:41.120So, but I don't know what gets the, well, I do know.
00:40:45.480The system is so powerful and so alluring and seductive that after a while, you know, I think it's inevitable that even good people are tempted to a worldview that's not as good.
00:40:58.420Even if they're not tempted to pure straight on corruption.
00:41:08.260But, so, just quickly, I mean, I'm interested as a former resident, longtime resident, about the city of Washington over which you would have had jurisdiction as a chief law enforcement officer.
00:41:20.420Because it's not a state, but it's a federal zone.
00:44:04.880And, you know, look, cash has given us support to try to do some cold case stuff.
00:44:09.640The FBI has the ability to do more DNA testing to try to get—you know, a lot of cold case stuff is DNA.
00:44:15.960And if you can go back and look at stuff, rapes especially, and you can do—so there's lots you can do.
00:44:20.400So there was a DNC employee shot to death in 2016 in Washington, but not robbed.
00:44:28.220And we're not, like, allowed to talk about or even mention his name, so I won't mention his name.
00:44:32.700But people I know who worked at the DNC, one person at the time believed that it was a political killing, that he was murdered for political reasons.
00:44:39.600Will that case be looked at, do you think?
00:44:51.180You think there's any evidence that that was an assassination, not a robbery?
00:44:55.060Well, there's evidence that it was a killing in such a way that, yeah, I mean, that you could say—you can't know sort of why the killing happened, right?
00:45:20.680But what I want to tell you about, this is important because you're going to see it nationwide this summer, and that's the problem with juveniles.
00:45:26.160In all these cities where you have Democrats and liberals in charge, they're soft on juveniles.
00:45:31.580So the juveniles get away with crimes and tougher and tougher, harder and harder crimes.
00:45:52.280And I said to someone, there was an incident down at the Navy Pier, a Navy Yard, where someone was, a bunch of kids, juveniles come in these gangs, and they steal wallets and they get around people.
00:46:02.500And I said to a friend of mine, he said, oh, yeah, the Navy Pier is like that.
00:46:05.140And I said, what are you talking about?
00:46:23.000But I think one of the things that that juvenile question is one that D.C. has to face because it's really – and the older kids, if they were girls, they'd be calling it trafficking because the older boys are trafficking the younger boys because they know they won't get into trouble the same way because they're underage.
00:46:38.620So that part of it is a disaster, and that falls right on the D.C. City Council and the mayor and the current administration there that hasn't taken it seriously because you just need to lock them up.
00:47:05.820And Newt, for whatever you think of Newt Gingrich, when he took over in 94, he took over D.C. and made it a much better city and created this massive renaissance.
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01:10:37.140This is just a cycle there where they're all very well paid and they talk to each other and then they get ready for the next, you know, effort.
01:10:43.800Norm Eisen or whoever tells him this is the next way we're going.
01:10:46.480And so, you know, I think the good news is we do have on our side the truth and we just got to keep fighting for it.
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01:12:16.840So what's on your slate of priorities?
01:12:21.260Well, Attorney General Bondi, when we started the group, she gave us some real straight marching on.
01:12:26.420Jack Smith, what he did, which is unbelievable.
01:13:13.200Are you really telling me he's like somehow he's like the Snowden of IRS tax, you know, because this was weaponized.
01:13:19.180Remember, it was ProPublica that first he went to New York Times, then he went to ProPublica, which was going hammer and tongs one after another against all these people.
01:13:27.720Again, weaponizing American law against citizens.
01:14:46.560Oh, that's the first I've heard of it, I don't know.
01:14:48.600Again, I know that when I got into office, I wanted to talk about the pipe bomb and find out more about the pipe bomb.
01:14:55.320I also want somebody to, I'm going to get to the bottom of some of the January 6th, remember the gallows, the fake gallows that were built?
01:15:23.600The pipe bomb question is a really interesting one, and the only reason I think most of us know much about it is a guy called Darren Beattie, who now works at the State Department, thank God,
01:15:32.140but who reported on it extensively on Revolver News.
01:15:35.720But that was so baffling and remains baffling because those bombs, whether they're real or not, were outside the two-party headquarters on Capitol Hill, RNC and DNC.
01:15:44.900So you'd think, like, politicians would really want to know.
01:15:47.400Why the conspicuous incuriosity about that?
01:15:55.460I mean, before I was in office, I kept saying, how can this possibly be?
01:15:59.200If you go to any other part of the world and you say the two major political parties had bombs put by their front door, it'd be the story forever, right?
01:16:06.200Sounds like, you know, just before World War II started, there were bombs placed somewhere, right?
01:16:10.680I mean, in front of the parties, so I never understood either.
01:16:13.880And the bombs were, you know, they were sort of rudimentary, but they clearly were, somebody knew what they were doing for the look.
01:19:09.100By the way, that's not Strzok and Page getting a million dollar payout, which is what they got.
01:19:14.660By the way, that's another form of weaponization of government when you have Biden administration and Strzok and Page transferring wealth to each other based on an agreement.
01:19:38.960But so getting to the bottom of that kind of stuff, that kind of conduct is another part of this thing.
01:19:43.720So it's but it will it almost feels like it can never end because it's so, you know, the weaponization against the citizens began a long time ago.
01:19:55.440But we really started to see it under Biden.
01:19:58.100And they they they accelerated the conduct, as you can see it, you can see the memos, you know, Merrick Garland and target the Catholics.
01:20:04.760Right. And and go after the school boards and and Jack Smith, Jack Smith took he used a grand jury in D.C., which is famously, you know, favorable, favorable to the Democrats to do almost all of his work.
01:20:20.860And then he flew down to Florida and basically transferred it down there for lawyers.
01:20:27.900And everybody goes, oh, yeah, you know, Letitia James and these the way the conduct happens and people go, oh, yeah, you know, by the way, one one thing to talk to preview the lawyers, the bar associations and the targeting of lawyers is another way that they've weaponized government against people.
01:20:44.780You know, they they you know, you can say what you want about Rudy or something.
01:20:49.400We've never had the system weaponized against lawyers for doing their jobs.
01:21:47.220But I've just seen this happen to a lot of people.
01:21:52.020So, I mean, just on the basis of what you said over the last hour, I think you're going to be the target for, you know, a lot of efforts to destroy you.
01:22:00.320It's been going on, though, for a while.
01:22:03.460I mean, look, Phyllis Schlafly, for whom I worked, there's this famous exchange where she's given a speech and she says, Clarence Thomas said to her, how do you keep going, Phyllis?
01:22:11.960You know, she said, how do you keep, he said, and she said, there's a prayer, she says, you know, that she would always say, from the malignant enemy, defend me.
01:22:20.140It's one of the Catholic prayers, you know.
01:22:21.840And, you know, look, we're so blessed, you know, this, you have the same attitude to be in this country, to have so many opportunities, and people deserve, our families deserve to have a future.
01:22:33.920And so, this is the fight that we're in.
01:22:36.680And, you know, they've said terrible things for about a month.
01:22:39.540My wife doesn't watch TV, which is great, doesn't read the papers, thank God.
01:22:43.080My kids do a little bit now, and they're not quite as convinced that I'm as good a guy as I told them I was before.
01:23:00.100I mean, if Obama weaponized the government against people who didn't vote for him, and Joe Biden brought it to the next level and just threw hundreds in prison, what's the next Democratic administration going to look like?
01:23:40.040But I think that the – it can lead to – when people start to lose power, you see the desperation, right?
01:23:51.120You see the – and to me, that's the one thing you start to notice.
01:23:57.660And so, yes, it could be really terrible on a Democrat administration.
01:24:01.000Imagine, you know, what it's like for, you know, President Rahm Emanuel when he puts in, you know, Attorney General, I don't know, Adam Schiff and what the heck that's like.
01:24:10.680It feels like we've gone to the bottom and maybe, you know, finish a thought that I had earlier that I didn't get to finish, which is it feels like a lot of people that were good people before, you know, 100 years ago again, back to the 100 years ago, good people.
01:24:24.320Just had good morals, cared about each other, fight, fight, fight, but be honorable on the same side.
01:24:29.280That doesn't seem as common right now, right?
01:24:31.380That there's some people that really are not good people that are just disagreeing.