The Tucker Carlson Show - Ex-Trucker： Gang Heists, Infiltration of the Workforce and the Attempt to Replace You With Machines

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00:00:30.000 gord thanks so much for doing this oh hey thanks for having me the reason i wanted to do this is

00:00:38.940 because i think it fits i'm going to give you my like one minute overlay of why i think this is

00:00:43.960 important and it's always important when people are hassled and destroyed the things they didn't

00:00:48.340 do wrong but i think the fate of truckers in the united states and canada uh it is part of a much

00:00:55.980 a larger trend. So like 10 years ago, I think this is correct. I put it in a book I wrote that

00:01:05.240 a driving for a living was the number one most common job for high school educated white men

00:01:10.920 in the United States, which is to say that people displaced by de-industrialization.

00:01:15.420 The factories died. The country went from making things to finance and real estate and the people

00:01:21.680 left behind weren't helped. They were destroyed by the Sacklers and drugs. Um, and also by kind 1.00

00:01:28.600 of relentless hounding and scolding by, uh, the ruling class. I don't quite understand what that

00:01:33.740 was, but I just noticed it, have noticed it, still noticing it. So driving trucking, um, was not only

00:01:41.680 like a huge part of the working class economy, like at the center of the working class economy

00:01:45.460 in in the west but also sort of symbol of like culture and autonomy like i'm behind the wheel

00:01:52.520 no one can control me the last american cowboy as it were exactly and it was celebrated by the

00:01:58.300 way in the 70s and early 80s but you know oh massive cultural output celebrating and venerating

00:02:03.080 the american trucker exactly when you know americans ordinary americans whose ancestors

00:02:07.780 built this country uh were you know not considered criminals um so by virtue being alive uh but

00:02:15.820 anyway i think this is part of a much larger um shift and uh and attack on the best people in

00:02:24.280 the country so um and last thing i'll say is like the other thing a lot of these guys do is go fight

00:02:28.980 wars right well hey my my grandfather uh landed at normandy d-day plus three in a sherman tank

00:02:36.800 in a Canadian uniform, fought legitimate, real Nazis,

00:02:41.000 not the ones that are the figments of people's imagination,

00:02:43.840 and then came back to Canada

00:02:45.260 and eventually got into the trucking business.

00:02:47.360 I'm a third-generation trucker, man.

00:02:49.180 Okay, so there you go.

00:02:50.400 I'm sorry, I just wanted to get my theories out of the way.

00:02:53.400 My dad was in the reserves.

00:02:54.900 Like, we got both.

00:02:55.800 We're on both bases, sir.

00:02:57.360 So tell me, I'm not surprised at all.

00:02:59.360 So, okay, you've written a book,

00:03:01.700 End of the Road, Inside the War on Truckers.

00:03:03.720 Most people are not aware there is a war on truckers,

00:03:05.960 has been ongoing, this war on truckers. Give us an overview. What does that mean, war on truckers?

00:03:11.420 Well, you know, it's sort of an analogy, right? There's wars on workers, you know, as you

00:03:16.480 mentioned, de-industrialization, shipping, manufacturing overseas. They couldn't get

00:03:21.600 rid of truckers, right? Like, we're here. This is geography, right? You can't move things around

00:03:26.140 America without being in America or Canada. And so, I think what we've seen is that the results

00:03:33.380 of a, they tried to, in 1980, open up the market, right, in order to bring the same forces to

00:03:41.840 North America. So you can't ship the jobs away. So let's make it so that the jobs, you know,

00:03:47.320 are more competitive in their speak. So Motor Carrier Act of 1980 comes in. And the idea is

00:03:53.180 that the previous regulatory framework for trucking, the old Motor Carrier Act, which had a

00:03:59.340 regulated business, right? So like you had to publish your rates. It took a lot to actually

00:04:04.580 get, you know, what you might call a taxi medallion. Like you had to have authority to

00:04:09.940 operate a trucking business that was controlled by the government. They did have an argument that

00:04:13.780 this was like, it made things too expensive. It was sort of a cartel. But the reforms went so far

00:04:19.260 in the other direction that basically anybody with $300 and a pulse could sign up to become

00:04:23.880 a truck driving company, a trucking

00:04:25.820 company. And the

00:04:27.820 effects of that, which were

00:04:29.780 brought by people who wanted free market

00:04:31.480 reforms. Free market.

00:04:33.940 Free market. Yeah, yeah. Well,

00:04:35.720 hey man, who isn't? The problem

00:04:37.720 is this, is that since then. We didn't get

00:04:39.720 free markets. No, we did not. And since

00:04:41.720 then, they have asked the government

00:04:43.760 to help them with the consequences

00:04:45.740 of the reforms they asked for.

00:04:47.940 So after the

00:04:48.880 Motor Carrier Act of 1980 comes about,

00:04:52.080 intense competition, lots of

00:04:53.740 trucking companies go out of business, lots of drivers quit, people move into other things,

00:04:57.720 because now the competition, you got your lower prices, not everybody's going to operate at that

00:05:02.220 price, right? So now they start seeing that drivers are like a little harder to come by,

00:05:07.440 right? Okay, maybe just pay them more, figure out your rate structure. Like you asked for

00:05:13.120 free market reform, it's up to you to fix this problem you asked to be created. But instead of

00:05:18.620 doing that, in 1987, this corporate lobby group, who I have very low opinion of, the American

00:05:25.160 Trucking Associations, come up with this study and claim that if we don't have an additional

00:05:31.360 600,000 truckers by 1990, the entire economy would collapse. The economy did not collapse.

00:05:38.740 I don't know if they got their 600,000 extra truckers, but what they found is that this was

00:05:43.280 a useful narrative. And for decades since that narrative has gone through the media, everybody

00:05:48.700 believes there's a shortage of truckers. Like we talked about this backstage last time I was on your

00:05:52.860 show and it's never been true. There's all kinds of people with CDLs. There's all kinds of people

00:05:57.320 like me around. They just don't want to pay. So what they have is a churn and a retention problem

00:06:02.280 where the taxpayer subsidizes CDL mills to produce more truck drivers who discover that the job

00:06:08.880 doesn't pay as good as they say it does. It has a whole lot of problems that nobody wants to solve.

00:06:13.280 and then they quit, right? So I think some carriers have like a 90 to 100% driver turnover

00:06:18.860 rate every single year, and we're paying for that. So they say, hey, we don't have enough drivers.

00:06:24.860 They go to the government. The government subsidizes the driving schools, or they subsidize

00:06:28.700 the students in many ways. Not completely. Sometimes they make the students pay for it with

00:06:32.620 these sort of debt arrangements. But in general, the American taxpayer has been financing this sort

00:06:39.620 a bogus narrative basically since the late 1980s at a certain point it was inevitable though not

00:06:47.740 foreseen by me that the people who regulate this stuff would try to replace the current population

00:06:54.560 of truckers uh with foreigners because truckers were white men and christian white men and that's

00:07:03.160 the group obviously about 70 percentage you know there's a lot of black and hispanic truckers from

00:07:08.480 in the United States too?

00:07:09.640 I would say legacy Americans.

00:07:12.560 You know, people have been here a while.

00:07:14.400 And so there was an attempt,

00:07:16.980 by the way, that's a higher percentage

00:07:19.580 than the American population,

00:07:20.760 so it's pretty high.

00:07:22.920 There was an attempt in the United States

00:07:24.780 to just like, just replace truckers

00:07:27.360 with people from South Asia.

00:07:29.440 It's a recent phenomenon and it's complex.

00:07:33.360 I don't know if there was necessarily

00:07:35.960 like a plan behind this.

00:07:37.340 So I think there's a lot of different factors that all came together in the last few years.

00:07:41.820 And yeah, it's starting to look like a replacement operation because you look around on our highways.

00:07:47.640 Most of the truck stops now are, you know, there's a chapter in my book called The Truck Stops of Babel because, you know, everybody's speaking different languages, washing their feet in the sinks. 0.87

00:07:58.480 There's just lots of weird little cultural things going on out on the road.

00:08:02.000 And then a lot of the problems that have come along with this operation, you know, the non-domiciled CDLs, all of this stuff is in the news, is a lot of these people are incompetent because they were never truck drivers where they were back home.

00:08:15.900 They just came here as, you know, refugees, asylum seekers, illegal migrants, what have you.

00:08:20.520 And there's these systems in place that already existed to turn through American drivers. 0.86

00:08:26.420 There's the lease operator scam, which sort of indentures drivers to the trucks.

00:08:30.220 The company owns the truck, they lease it to you, you lease it back to them, but it's kind of like sharecropping.

00:08:35.440 And it's meant to like download the costs onto the driver.

00:08:38.620 And as all these systems start losing customers because people got wise to this stuff.

00:08:44.180 And then we have the sort of open borders policies of various administrations, which, you know, really went on steroids under Biden.

00:08:50.940 The country's flooded with tens of millions of people and many of them start going into the trucking industry.

00:08:57.580 Some friends of mine have been studying the sort of issue of CDLs by various states.

00:09:03.260 And this has been the sort of locus of Secretary Duffy's investigations into this stuff.

00:09:08.020 You know, shout out to Shannon and his crew at American Truckers United for doing this.

00:09:12.340 They've found that, like, we're talking hundreds of thousands of CDLs have been issued in a suspicious or outright illegal manner.

00:09:19.980 Many of them to people who do not qualify under federal regulations, right?

00:09:23.400 So there's an old federal regulation that's been on the books since 1937, which stipulates that to drive a commercial vehicle in the United States, you must have a certain command of the English language, right?

00:09:35.100 You have to be able to communicate with law enforcement, the motoring public, read information signs, read construction signs.

00:09:42.440 We know we have signs everywhere on our highways, you know, hey, this lane is closing, there's construction up ahead.

00:09:47.700 You have to put your tire chains on to go over Donner Pass.

00:09:50.540 You know, the wind is too high in Wyoming and they're all in English. America is for better or worse an English country. This is a safety sensitive job where you can crash a truck and kill people. You should probably know English. In 2016, the regulation of that, or I should say the enforcement of that regulation was waived in the waning days of the Obama administration. 0.98

00:10:11.820 They just said, we're not going to place trucks out of service anymore.

00:10:14.960 We're not going to place the driver out of service.

00:10:16.340 We'll just give them a fine and send them on their way.

00:10:18.380 So this opened up a loophole where you could bring more people in to drive trucks who did not meet this federal requirement.

00:10:26.160 And what was the effect?

00:10:27.780 Well, I mean, we're seeing it all around us, right? 0.99

00:10:30.820 Like I think so far in 2025, we had over 30 people in America killed by people who are here illegally.

00:10:40.320 The definition of illegal migrant and legal migrant and trucking is a little bit of a chimera, right?

00:10:45.580 Because a lot of these people showed up as fake asylum seekers, right? 0.84

00:10:49.620 So they come to America. 0.97

00:10:52.200 They say, hey, I'm from the Punjab. 0.55

00:10:55.560 I'm a devout Sikh.

00:10:57.400 That means the government hates me because they accused me of being a Calistani.

00:11:01.160 Can you please let me into the United States?

00:11:03.080 and, you know, they get issued a work visa on the spot,

00:11:07.900 an employment authorization document, no vetting.

00:11:10.960 Nobody knows what they did back home.

00:11:12.440 Nobody knows anything about this person,

00:11:13.980 but now they're given this employment authorization document

00:11:16.520 and they can go to the DMV here in Florida or Texas or California.

00:11:21.780 A lot of people have tried to make this political, right?

00:11:23.840 Like this is a blue team, red team thing.

00:11:25.540 Everyone's blaming Gavin Newsom.

00:11:27.180 No one believes that anymore.

00:11:28.180 Oh, I mean, you know, the number one state for issuing these non-domiciled CDLs is Texas.

00:11:32.840 Of course. And one of the number one states for bribery at DMVs and corruption with issuing these CDLs is Florida. Right. So like it's not this is not just like Democrats doing this.

00:11:43.920 Obviously. And so I mean, the governor and lieutenant governor of Texas are way more liberal than a lot of Democrats I know. And they're both Republicans.

00:11:51.880 I mean, you know, these definitions are not very helpful, right?

00:11:54.620 We're trying to solve an actual problem.

00:11:56.600 They're not.

00:11:57.640 And another thing that happens too is like,

00:12:01.280 there's a term I use in my book I got from my friend Ashley called spreadsheet brain.

00:12:06.000 And there are people who will only acknowledge that there's a problem

00:12:11.080 if the problem has been certified by an authority

00:12:14.260 and it's been quantitatively measured and we have all the data.

00:12:17.400 We have all the data.

00:12:18.680 Your anecdotal observations of reality are dismissed.

00:12:23.420 The fact that the acquisition of that data is hampered in many ways is also dismissed, right?

00:12:28.760 Because a lot of collisions that are not fatal, right?

00:12:32.440 Maybe somebody just got really hurt.

00:12:33.980 Maybe nobody got hurt, but like the trucks rolled over and all these cars are wrecked.

00:12:37.280 They don't take the immigration status of the driver or where he's from or how he got his CDL.

00:12:42.380 you only get this information if somebody died or if there's like a massive court case that takes

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00:16:08.740 Before we proceed on policy questions, you're a truck driver.

00:16:14.020 Yeah, I've been my whole life. I mean, I'm not right now because I've been displaced out of

00:16:17.260 my own industry by all this nonsense. I haven't turned a wheel in two and a half years.

00:16:21.640 What's long haul trucking like? Describe the job.

00:16:24.200 Oh, man. Well, the trucking industry is very diverse. And I mean, in the truest sense of the word, right? Like there's different types of freight, different lanes. Some truckers are regional. Some guys are long haul going coast to coast. Some guys work within specific industries. They only haul one product.

00:16:42.260 um i've kind of done quite a bit of things um i started out working for these guys uh shout out

00:16:49.560 to my friends the paddocks back home in stony creek ontario hauling steel coils hauling heavy

00:16:54.480 equipment um you know farm equipment um did all kinds of stuff for those guys where were you

00:17:00.880 hauling it when i first started and this is going to speak to the training stuff at one at first

00:17:05.900 when i was a teenager i got my license when i was 18 but i stayed very close to home so i'm like i'm

00:17:09.960 preloading trailers for long haul guys, you know, chaining down loads, tarping loads, learning how

00:17:14.540 to do things correctly. So for a couple of years, you know, Hamilton, Toronto, Southern Ontario,

00:17:19.120 then they let me go a little ways further, Montreal, Detroit, and a little further away

00:17:23.620 again. And then eventually, you know, I did the whole cross country OTR thing. I've been to all

00:17:29.040 48 continental States. What's OTR mean? Over the road. That's the sort of industry slang for people

00:17:35.260 who go far away and spend, you know, days and weeks away from home hauling the really

00:17:39.880 long haul stuff long distance.

00:17:41.880 What's that like?

00:17:43.500 I mean, it's an interesting sort of lifestyle.

00:17:46.240 It's not for everybody.

00:17:47.560 You know, you have to be psychologically in tune with yourself and happy in your own company

00:17:53.360 because you spend an awful lot of time by yourself in the truck.

00:17:56.680 You also have to have a certain inner strength to deal with just all the problems you get.

00:18:01.840 You know, a big issue in trucking is detention time.

00:18:06.800 You'll show up at places to get loaded or unloaded, and they take two hours, four hours, six hours, an entire day.

00:18:12.140 For many drivers, they don't get paid for that.

00:18:14.940 And that's sort of one of the sources of this claim that there's a driver shortage.

00:18:19.480 It's actually a capacity utilization problem.

00:18:21.840 And this was studied by a guy at MIT named David Correll, who told the Biden administration in 2021, by the way, that we don't need to import more drivers from overseas or expand, you know, issues of CDL.

00:18:35.200 You just need to get the trucks moving, right?

00:18:37.040 So they dismissed that in favor of ATA propaganda about a shortage.

00:18:41.500 But anyhow, yeah, you have weather problems.

00:18:44.220 You have to be able to deal with the truck breakdowns, right?

00:18:47.140 Like you have to be a little bit mechanically adept, dealing with cold or really hot.

00:18:52.040 Like you could be going anywhere in the continent.

00:18:53.720 So like you sort of have to, you know, be able to deal with adversity and just roll with the many punches that are thrown your way when you're out on the road.

00:19:03.060 Where do you spend the night?

00:19:04.480 Do you sleep in the truck?

00:19:05.400 Yep.

00:19:06.180 What's that like?

00:19:07.100 Pretty cozy, actually.

00:19:08.060 At the end of a long day, most of my most comfortable, restful sleeps have been in the back of a Kenworth or a Peterbilt.

00:19:13.720 What do you eat?

00:19:14.460 hopefully not truck stop food um no i mean uh guys some guys have fridges and freezers in their

00:19:22.280 trucks and uh you know some guys cook on the road some guys eat at restaurants some guys eat too

00:19:27.060 much fast food or junk yeah from the you know the then there's like a another issue i think we have

00:19:34.020 in the industry is a dwindling number of like you know old school sort of home style home cook truck

00:19:39.320 stops. That's sort of gone the way of the dodo in favor of fast truck stops and fast food places

00:19:44.880 instead of sit-down restaurants. So the quality of the food has declined. Yeah, in many ways.

00:19:50.580 There's a few. Again, there's always notable exceptions to these things, but in general, yes.

00:19:56.300 What happens if you blow a tire? Oh, that's a good question. Back in the old days,

00:20:01.800 you changed it yourself. And when I was in Australia, I changed my own tires. They still

00:20:05.620 do that sort of thing down there um what's that like i drove road trains for a company in western

00:20:10.740 australia and uh when you're what's a road train a road train is uh a truck with like two long

00:20:17.200 trailers or three or four depending on what part of the country you're in because oh it's a road

00:20:21.040 train yeah exactly it's a train on the name describes um so that's something i've always

00:20:26.720 wanted to do you know i've been a trucker my whole life and that's kind of like one of the

00:20:29.800 holy grails of trucking in in our sort of culture and world is to go drive in the outback and pull

00:20:35.080 all these trailers so it took me three different attempts at doing it but i finally got a visa

00:20:40.260 figured out and i went and worked for these guys in perth and when you're you know 700 miles north

00:20:44.960 of perth in the middle of nowhere you can't just call bridgestone or whoever to come rescue probably

00:20:48.840 hauling ore i would imagine uh i never did the ore stuff i hauled uh equipment for offshore drilling

00:20:54.500 rigs because uh you went there you went to dampier didn't you yeah yeah you were on tour in australia

00:20:59.080 yeah so off that off that coast there's one of the world's largest deposits of natural gas yep

00:21:04.480 And so I was hauling equipment and drilling mud and salt and all the different things they need on drilling regs.

00:21:12.040 And there was also an onshore natural gas processing facility in a little place called Onslow.

00:21:17.880 I hauled equipment and, you know, scrap and all kinds of stuff in and out of.

00:21:22.320 I used to haul some things to Newman.

00:21:24.560 So, yeah, but like, you know, on the question of changing tires and fixing your own equipment, you know, when you're in these remote areas, you have to be able to sort of do that.

00:21:32.840 You have to have a skill level and a competency level to look after your gear.

00:21:38.420 And that is something that, you know, has at least here in America and Canada been slowly

00:21:43.200 been attacked, right?

00:21:43.900 They don't want you to change your own tire, just call a tire guy.

00:21:46.380 They don't want you working on the track.

00:21:48.980 They're like, they've attacked the idea that you are a skilled, competent operator that

00:21:56.260 knows what you're doing, right?

00:21:57.420 Because they want things done cheap.

00:21:59.000 get somebody that's just a steering wheel holder and you know does what they're told and looks

00:22:03.900 into the driver facing camera and you know submits to the electronic logging device that manages your

00:22:09.480 hours and you know don't even you just don't you know you don't you don't have any choice you don't

00:22:14.240 have any agency behind the wheel anymore right that's what that's what the industry is moving

00:22:18.140 towards before they you know nothing about the machine you're just the guy holding the steering

00:22:22.600 well that's the system in place to train drivers in north america for the most part operates on

00:22:30.260 that premise so it's degraded the pride that people have in holding the job uh in many ways yes

00:22:35.880 yeah so it's it's turned men ever closer in to machines right of course yeah you're just

00:22:43.300 you're you're the human robot um i get it this is part again of a of a larger oh it's much larger

00:22:48.460 What was the last time we heard someone on their deathbed saying they wish they'd spent more time working, particularly filling out forms or even gathering possessions?

00:22:57.040 That's never happened.

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00:24:47.140 Often when you're coming through passes in the west or even in the east through mountain passes, you see a runaway truck lane.

00:24:58.480 Will you explain what that is?

00:24:59.860 So if you're going down a steep grid and you lose control of your truck or the brakes burn off because you're going down the hill not knowing what you're doing, you weren't trained properly, you're supposed to go into one of these lanes.

00:25:13.180 And, you know, it slows you down so you don't wreck, right?

00:25:15.840 You don't run off the road and crash.

00:25:16.960 Right.

00:25:17.160 It's like soft gravel or sand or something.

00:25:19.780 Funny you bring that up.

00:25:20.660 There's been a few incidents, one very recently in a place in Colorado called Wolf Creek Pass,

00:25:26.100 which is the name of a song by a guy named C.W. McCall, or at least that was his stage name.

00:25:32.600 He's the guy that wrote the song Convoy, and he was very popular back in the 70s.

00:25:36.980 So Wolf Creek Pass has got a number of these runaway truck ramps because it's, I don't know how many thousands of feet up.

00:25:42.300 Like 11,000 or something.

00:25:43.540 It's very high.

00:25:44.500 It's wicked, yeah. 0.89

00:25:45.080 And one of these in-source drivers from India went down that hill, apparently had some kind of massive brake failure, and couldn't read the signs about runaway truck ramp, didn't know what it was, and then went off the side of the road, truck rolled over numerous times, and he's now dead.

00:26:02.020 um you know there was a crash in colorado very famously where uh i think the gentleman was from

00:26:09.220 cuba uh went down this hill on interstate 70 in colorado and ended up crashing into a bunch of

00:26:15.500 people set off a giant inferno uh you know he survived a bunch of other people didn't same thing

00:26:21.620 i didn't know what he was doing didn't he drove right by all these runaway truck ramps because

00:26:25.920 if you can't read english then you don't know what runaway truck ramp means how do you burn

00:26:30.540 your brakes that you said if you don't know what you're doing, you can burn

00:26:32.640 up your brakes? Well, when you're going down the hill, you're

00:26:34.660 supposed to let, you know, your engine

00:26:36.120 compression or an engine brake or, you

00:26:38.720 know, just driving down the hill slowly.

00:26:40.740 Downshift. Yeah, and

00:26:42.540 you have to be taught that. And

00:26:44.640 a lot of these truck driving

00:26:46.520 schools today, again, this process of

00:26:48.580 de-skilling and making people less competent,

00:26:50.680 less proud, which, you know,

00:26:52.720 overlaps with the kind of people that won't

00:26:54.500 fight back.

00:26:56.540 That's just, they don't teach you that. You know, there's

00:26:58.520 There are a few schools that do.

00:26:59.520 I interviewed a guy that runs a truck driving school in British Columbia

00:27:02.020 who specifically teaches people how to get through the mountains.

00:27:05.540 Very well regarded.

00:27:06.520 But again, he's the edge case.

00:27:08.600 He is the minority in the industry today.

00:27:11.920 Amazing.

00:27:13.000 What are the, before we even get to that,

00:27:16.220 you alluded to it's too windy in Wyoming.

00:27:19.960 What does that mean?

00:27:21.640 So trucks, you know, it's a big wind sail.

00:27:23.980 Imagine a van trailer, a 53-foot van trailer, right?

00:27:26.880 And it's eight feet high.

00:27:27.880 So, it's like, you know, it's nearly 500 square feet of, like, wall, right?

00:27:32.920 Right.

00:27:33.560 And when you don't have anything in the trailer or you have a very light load, you get a 50, 60, 70 mile an hour wind.

00:27:40.200 It just blows you over, right?

00:27:42.320 And that's, so they close the road all the time in Wyoming and other parts of the country where there's really high winds.

00:27:47.040 Kansas, they get these crazy windstorms and they just take you away.

00:27:51.180 So, you're supposed to park, right?

00:27:52.580 And again, they have warning signs for this all along various interstates.

00:27:57.880 saying, hey, high-profile vehicles must stop. 0.98

00:28:01.140 You know, if you just showed up here from Somalia and you don't speak English 1.00

00:28:05.000 and you just charge right on through and you get blown over by the wind,

00:28:10.380 you know, the people that hire these folks not training them,

00:28:13.840 which is part of the point, are setting them up for failure.

00:28:17.420 You know, I mentioned this gentleman who crashed in Colorado on Wolf Creek Pass. 0.64

00:28:21.660 There's this thing called the donkey route, 0.96

00:28:23.800 which is a human smuggling route that goes through Central America

00:28:26.940 and they have agents in India.

00:28:30.200 You know, there's been a documentary about this.

00:28:31.640 I'm not making it up.

00:28:32.780 And these young guys in India who are, you know,

00:28:35.380 they see videos of, you know, their co-ethnic friends here

00:28:39.320 and cars and girls and houses and, 0.91

00:28:41.760 oh, I'm going to go to America and make it.

00:28:43.960 But, you know, they can't get visas for whatever reason. 1.00

00:28:47.060 So they go through this donkey route. 1.00

00:28:49.240 They get to the Mexican border. 0.95

00:28:50.500 They claim asylum.

00:28:51.460 Oh, I'm seeking asylum from Narendra Modi.

00:28:53.780 You know, he's going to attack me because I'm a Calistani.

00:28:57.280 He's not attacking your family who are still at home and who have leveraged everything they have to pay the human smugglers to get you here.

00:29:03.460 And now you're in debt to them, right? 0.98

00:29:05.480 And then you go work for some trucking company, usually, but not always, owned by your fellow Indians. 1.00

00:29:11.200 And they don't teach you very much of anything. 1.00

00:29:12.740 Just get in the truck and go make money.

00:29:14.220 And if you don't like it, we'll just send you back home.

00:29:16.200 And now you're $30,000 in debt to human smugglers, right?

00:29:19.080 So the exploitation going on here, this is not just a matter of like beating up on immigrants, right?

00:29:25.140 We have a mass.

00:29:26.300 The immigrants aren't the evil ones in this story.

00:29:28.300 No, no, no, no, no, I agree.

00:29:29.940 No, and the exploitation and they're the ones getting killed too, right?

00:29:35.660 So all these crashes that have been in the news, there's usually also a guy driving the truck.

00:29:42.440 You know, I went and searched GoFundMe the other day and punched in like truck driver Singh.

00:29:47.740 I noticed this was a few weeks ago

00:29:48.980 and I was writing an article for my Substack.

00:29:52.340 249 campaigns by Indian families

00:29:55.400 trying to get their husbands, uncles, fathers' remains 0.99

00:29:59.780 sent back to India because they came here,

00:30:02.460 got in a truck, had no idea what they were doing,

00:30:04.960 got involved in a collision.

00:30:05.840 250?

00:30:06.920 Yeah.

00:30:07.720 That's just the one named Singh.

00:30:09.300 I mean, that's not any other nationality.

00:30:11.180 That's not any other last name.

00:30:12.920 Just Singh, Sikhs.

00:30:13.880 Yeah. 0.92

00:30:14.920 250 of these guys with active campaigns run by their families

00:30:18.420 either to pay medical bills or to have their bodies sent back to India.

00:30:22.960 That is shocking.

00:30:25.480 It is.

00:30:26.060 And you know what's even more shocking is the fact that nobody wants to talk about this.

00:30:29.940 So I've been writing about the trucking industry now for a few years,

00:30:33.120 which sort of led to this book, you know, on the side, right?

00:30:35.800 Like I've written for Newsweek and the American Conservative, a few other places,

00:30:39.360 your friend Oren Cass, American Compass.

00:30:41.480 and I have tried to alert

00:30:46.360 through my various media contacts,

00:30:48.820 folks in the mainstream media

00:30:49.860 or the left, right?

00:30:50.760 Washington Post, New York Times,

00:30:53.520 various smaller leftist places.

00:30:55.720 Guys, we have a problem here in trucking.

00:30:57.700 We're talking about it

00:30:58.500 in the right-wing media

00:30:59.280 because apparently they're all

00:31:01.220 anti-immigrant secret racists or whatever,

00:31:03.500 but you guys are not talking about it.

00:31:06.560 There's a lot of racism here,

00:31:08.120 but it's not from truckers.

00:31:09.320 it's from the people who run these countries who hate the native populations of these countries

00:31:15.260 our countries canada the united states australia new zealand uk that's just a fact that's where

00:31:20.680 racism is stop lecturing about racism stop yeah um and i think it's also like you say it's it's

00:31:28.480 so much exploitation but these guys don't want to talk about it you know and when they do

00:31:31.960 it's these really terrible puff pieces right so um there was one in the guardian the other day

00:31:39.160 Trump is a meanie for enforcing English language rules.

00:31:42.260 There was a couple written back before Christmas, one in the New York Times, one in the LA Times about, you know, California-based Indian trucking companies that can't get drivers anymore because their drivers are afraid of ICE or being abused out on the highway.

00:31:54.380 The other truckers are racist to them at the truck stop or whatever.

00:31:58.660 But in none of these pieces do they investigate the safety records of the carriers involved.

00:32:02.880 Do they investigate the human smuggling?

00:32:04.780 do they investigate you know the fact that this is kind of a program from narendra modi right we

00:32:10.020 have this sort of you know a profit through emigration policy of his of sending his people

00:32:16.240 everywhere this is not just limited to h1bs and tech you know like this is also in trucking

00:32:20.880 and india's gdp is now like what three or four percent built on remittances and they're not the

00:32:26.160 only country that does this but like it's official policy from narendra modi right send my guys over

00:32:31.760 there let them go now they're like less of a political problem to me they send money home

00:32:36.640 that's not through you know the imf or some financiers there's no strings attached to

00:32:43.400 remittances right they just come home it gets spent however and it's like a pressure release valve

00:32:48.320 for countries with like dysfunctional economies or dysfunctional governments to just like send 0.97

00:32:53.680 all their people into the west and the whole like you know indians getting into trucking thing is 0.98

00:32:58.600 not unique to the United States. It's a problem in Canada, New Zealand, Australia. And, you know, 1.00

00:33:04.340 again, the problem is less that, you know, these people are from India. The problem is that the 1.00

00:33:09.580 lack of training. In Canada, there's this thing called Driver Incorporated, which is this sort of

00:33:14.520 tax avoidance scam, kind of like, you know, hiring employees on a 1099, which would be

00:33:18.920 misclassification. That's rampant in the Canadian trucking industry. In Australia, they call it sham

00:33:23.900 contracting. And it gives the companies that employ these guys a business advantage because

00:33:31.680 now their overheads are lower because they're not paying for Canada pension plan contributions or

00:33:37.860 unemployment insurance or payroll taxes. They're just not paying any of that, right? And now the

00:33:43.660 drivers are also precarious because the drivers are essentially being paid cash, right? And if

00:33:50.340 you don't get paid then what you know there's been a number of stories in canada of drivers who

00:33:54.560 went to work on this sort of driver incorporated thing and then they find themselves not being

00:34:00.240 paid the companies just don't pay them and then what are you going to do about it you know like

00:34:03.860 it's just it's just another form of it's exploiting the government it's exploiting the drivers it's

00:34:08.280 exploiting everybody and it introduces a whole lot of people onto our highways which are a common

00:34:13.340 space right they're our highways the interstates are paid for by the taxpayer they were built by

00:34:18.640 our forefathers. The highways are public, and we are allowing people who are engaging in

00:34:24.660 criminality to put untrained, unvetted, oftentimes illiterate people that have no idea what they're

00:34:30.520 doing, who are being economically exploited to be this most critical link in the entire economy,

00:34:36.680 right? Like truckers move everything, and we have allowed the entire industry to just be

00:34:41.420 parasitized by foreign gangsters. It's criminal. We pray that the war with Iran ends immediately, 1.00

00:34:47.220 but the truth is it doesn't seem to be. 0.77

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00:35:59.160 Tucker.

00:36:00.320 I know it's been a tragedy for you personally, but I'm glad you're not driving anymore because this is, I can't imagine a more informed, articulate, wise observer of what's happening than you.

00:36:13.380 So, I mean, if you're a representative of the average American trucker, we need to protect them at all costs.

00:36:20.400 I appreciate the sentiment and the compliment, Tucker.

00:36:23.440 I'm just a guy, man.

00:36:24.780 Like, I was approached to write the book.

00:36:28.400 A friend of mine, my buddy, Oliver Bateman, shout out Oliver, he encouraged me to start a sub stack and a podcast.

00:36:33.320 And I just, I don't know, people said there's something going on here.

00:36:36.540 Maybe you should look into it.

00:36:37.520 And I said, yes.

00:36:38.780 How dangerous is it as a job?

00:36:40.680 I mean, it seems inherently.

00:36:41.660 It's one of the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America, actually, because of the risk of collision and, you know, falling off loading docks and getting in and out of trucks.

00:36:51.320 There's other stuff going on here, but it's mostly all the collisions.

00:36:54.420 You know, you're just at risk of being hit by other truckers.

00:36:56.920 What's the most dangerous?

00:36:57.700 So as someone who's done long haul trucking, what did you think were the most dangerous moments?

00:37:04.100 Oh, man, good question.

00:37:05.300 I mean, there's managed danger, right?

00:37:08.480 Like I hauled a lot of logs.

00:37:09.580 I hauled logs down volcanoes in New Zealand when I lived in New Zealand.

00:37:13.720 And, you know, I managed if you're trained correctly and you have good, well-maintained

00:37:18.040 equipment and you're working for a competent company that cares about you, that pays you

00:37:22.360 well, those dangers are mitigated.

00:37:25.420 You know, I, people used to ask me because I did four seasons up on the ice roads in

00:37:30.020 the Northwest Territories.

00:37:31.180 Oh, isn't that crazy?

00:37:32.160 You know, you're driving around on frozen lakes.

00:37:33.680 I'm like, it's boring.

00:37:35.360 They plow the road a hundred feet wide.

00:37:37.360 It's totally managed.

00:37:38.560 They have these guys driving around with, like, ground-penetrating radar.

00:37:41.660 They manage the ice.

00:37:42.540 They flood the cracked parts.

00:37:43.980 You're doing 17 miles an hour.

00:37:45.880 There's no cars to interact with.

00:37:48.360 Like, it's actually the most safe road in the world per ton miles traveled.

00:37:52.900 The most unsafe thing you can do is drive up and down Interstate 81 or across 40 or whatever.

00:37:58.440 Yeah, 95 over the GW Bridge.

00:38:00.280 Yeah, like, it's, yeah, the remote, seemingly dangerous things are actually very safe.

00:38:06.320 and the unsafe stuff is to drive around

00:38:08.740 on an American interstate right now.

00:38:09.820 You spent four seasons ice trucking?

00:38:12.300 Yes, sir.

00:38:13.420 You ever seen anything weird?

00:38:16.300 You're just so in the middle of nowhere.

00:38:18.260 You're so alive.

00:38:19.220 I've seen herds of caribou and arctic foxes.

00:38:22.880 And when you get north of the tree line

00:38:24.840 on your way to the mine,

00:38:25.660 you sort of get out into subarctic tundra.

00:38:27.520 It's all very beautiful.

00:38:29.620 How cold is it?

00:38:30.340 Aurora Borealis and stuff at night.

00:38:32.280 um i've uh yeah it'll average you know anywhere during the season you know it's in the minus 20s

00:38:40.100 minus 30s most of the time you'll get down below minus 40 i've been outside making a repair on my

00:38:45.220 trailer at like 53 below so it can get pretty cold wow and you don't turn the truck off no no

00:38:53.260 no i just you set it on high idle when you're sleeping or unloading or whatever yep what's it

00:38:58.080 like driving through a crowded urban area in a big truck? Well, no. See, that's fun. I used to

00:39:04.220 do a lot of deliveries around Toronto when I was younger, and that's where I sort of like, you know,

00:39:08.500 cut my teeth at this sort of stuff, right? You're driving around places where everyone's driving

00:39:12.640 like a maniac, and there's lots of people around, and that's the challenge. I think one of the more

00:39:18.380 dangerous jobs I ever had was hauling fuel to gas stations. I did that for about a year or so in the

00:39:22.700 greater toronto area and people cutting you off and in and out of traffic and you see people doing

00:39:28.380 really dumb things at gas stations you know smoking and you know you know just ignoring

00:39:34.080 the fact that there's like a truck here with fuel coming out of the hoses into the ground tanks 0.95

00:39:39.060 and there's a giant bomb next yeah getting too close to you um when you're driving a fuel truck

00:39:44.820 do you ever imagine what would happen if you had an accident i mean you you you're aware you try to

00:39:52.160 imagine not getting in one and you try and envision all of the factors at play. You're

00:39:57.880 constantly, you have, when you haul stuff that's like, you know, considered dangerous, like fuel

00:40:02.900 or, you know, when you're going down a mountain with logs, it's just, you have to have full

00:40:06.260 situational awareness, right? You have to be constantly thinking about where's my out if

00:40:10.420 somebody cuts me off? What's going on as I go around this corner? What's that guy doing over

00:40:15.120 there? You just, you're constantly, it keeps you awake and it's actually pretty mentally and

00:40:19.640 physically draining because you're just always constantly aware you know i mean this is why i've

00:40:24.900 never been involved in a collision like i've never hit anybody you know i've been doing this for

00:40:29.380 almost 30 years and it's just because you just have to be fully aware what's going on at all

00:40:35.220 the trucks moving to automatic transmissions oh yeah that's been going on for decades now

00:40:40.160 okay so you're not you don't have 16 gears i mean i don't i don't drive those trucks they do have

00:40:45.740 there's still sticks there's this is a bit a bit of an interesting trucker culture debate

00:40:50.220 um automatics versus sticks and in the process one of my main critiques i mean you want to drive an

00:40:56.300 automatic transmission whatever but like the the development and the imposition of automatic

00:41:02.680 transmissions into big trucks was done on purpose why to de-skill the job and get more people behind

00:41:09.580 the wheel it may have the fringe benefit now that we've had big truck automatic transmissions for a

00:41:14.920 couple of decades yes in some cases they get better fuel mileage matched with certain types

00:41:19.940 of engines and that's fine and that's great but the imposition of them was not for that

00:41:24.660 it was to reduce the barrier to entry into the job and get more people in it who are less skilled

00:41:30.440 and less competent and again you see the results all around you how are we i i don't mean this in

00:41:36.400 a patronizing way but like how did you learn so much about the world were you i mean if you're

00:41:41.580 driving all the time you can't read while you drive listen to podcasts listen to audiobooks

00:41:46.700 you know is that is that common oh yeah yeah yeah my book will be out on audiobook narrated by me

00:41:51.780 as a matter of fact so comes out next i mean so if you do it right like long-haul trucking is like

00:41:56.940 kind of a college course as well as a job it can be i mean part of the reason i wrote this and i

00:42:02.500 you know people say i'm passionate about it and i get worked up about it is that truck driving has

00:42:06.880 been very good to me right it's been it's critical to the economy everybody everything we have here

00:42:11.560 was all delivered by truck.

00:42:13.220 The industrial processes

00:42:15.020 which make everything

00:42:16.200 involve trucking.

00:42:17.820 It's the same in every country.

00:42:19.500 It's an important

00:42:20.520 and critical job.

00:42:22.560 And, you know, again,

00:42:23.380 third generation trucker.

00:42:24.440 My dad's a trucker.

00:42:25.240 He's still out on the road.

00:42:26.120 My uncle Chris

00:42:26.740 drove truck for years,

00:42:28.260 established a freight brokerage

00:42:29.440 in Canada, an honest one.

00:42:31.140 Unfortunately,

00:42:31.660 they're not so honest anymore.

00:42:33.100 My uncle Bruce hauled logs

00:42:34.280 and heavy equipment

00:42:34.980 in northwestern Ontario,

00:42:36.240 the kind of place

00:42:36.720 you would love to go fishing.

00:42:38.420 You know, my grandpa drove truck

00:42:39.620 across the Trans-Canada Highway

00:42:40.860 when it was first built in like 1960 across Lake Superior, you know, in a truck with no bunk,

00:42:45.880 you know, sleeping across the seats, no air conditioning, you know, at, you know, at threat 0.87

00:42:50.200 of the truck freezing up in the winter, you know, like, well, my grandpa was a tough bastard and

00:42:55.520 like truckers in general were that way, you know, I mean, the technology's improved and whatnot,

00:43:00.780 but, you know, I, I feel very strongly about this industry that served my family so well and so

00:43:06.940 many other families so well, you know? And one of the things that's not talked about with this

00:43:12.220 displacement problem as of late is that many multi-generational American trucking companies

00:43:19.540 have gone out of business in the last few years. So since 2022, the freight market has been in what

00:43:26.100 some people call the Great Freight Recession. We're starting to come out of it here in the last

00:43:29.520 few months. But, you know, there's a website called Freight Waves. I'm friends with the guy

00:43:35.220 that runs it and a few of the people that write there. And they have a section of their website

00:43:39.320 called layoffs and bankruptcies. And they have people whose full-time job is to document

00:43:44.780 American trucking companies going out of business or closing or drivers being laid off or having

00:43:50.380 financial difficulties. And it's been humming for four years. Meanwhile, we get more and more

00:43:57.060 people on our highways from places like Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan and India and Pakistan and all

00:44:05.080 across Central America and sending their wages home in remittances or paying human smugglers

00:44:10.720 to get them here, and American trucking companies are closing.

00:44:14.160 And that hasn't stopped under the current administration?

00:44:16.740 Well, there's a bunch of stuff going on right now.

00:44:18.780 You know, Trump, I think President Trump and Transportation Secretary Duffy are trying

00:44:23.880 really hard to fix trucking.

00:44:26.060 It's one of the sort of, you know, I mean, President Trump's up to some interesting things

00:44:30.080 here as of late, but we'll leave that to the side.

00:44:31.880 But I think what they're trying to do to help American truckers is good.

00:44:35.080 And they reinforced this English language proficiency thing that was, you know, the enforcement of which was waived under the Obama administration.

00:44:44.440 Interestingly enough, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration functionary who sent out the memo saying, don't put these guys out of service anymore.

00:44:52.120 He's now in charge of the hazmats division of FMCSA.

00:44:55.160 So this guy that like helped open up the problem is still working there.

00:44:58.780 So maybe Duffy could fire him or something.

00:45:00.280 I don't know.

00:45:01.180 What's his name?

00:45:01.960 I can't remember.

00:45:03.240 And I don't want to be mean to the fella.

00:45:05.080 On the question of the administration doing things, ELP was great, but it's only nibbling around the edges, okay?

00:45:13.660 The sort of parasitism of the industry, I think Duffy and the FMCSA and U.S. DOT don't quite understand that we're dealing with people who don't view our safety-driven compliance culture in the same way we do, right?

00:45:31.500 So, okay.

00:45:32.560 No!

00:45:32.740 So, for instance, cultural orientation matters.

00:45:37.160 It certainly does.

00:45:38.260 So, let me give you an example.

00:45:40.620 A few weeks ago, this was all over the news,

00:45:43.440 these gentlemen in India were killed in a very tragic incident

00:45:46.380 where a driver from Kyrgyzstan working for a company owned by a guy from Kyrgyzstan

00:45:51.940 operating out of Chicago stopped traffic.

00:45:55.540 Instead of driving into the field to the right,

00:45:58.000 the guy from Kyrgyzstan drove left into oncoming traffic, 0.95

00:46:00.640 hit a van with a bunch of Amish guys

00:46:02.080 and it killed four of them.

00:46:03.780 Tragic incident, okay?

00:46:05.520 So he's been arrested.

00:46:06.500 That's all happening.

00:46:07.640 A week later, on the same road,

00:46:10.360 in the same county in Indiana,

00:46:12.400 another truck blew a stop sign,

00:46:14.400 almost killed somebody else.

00:46:16.200 The cops pulled a truck over,

00:46:18.640 owned by an Indian company,

00:46:20.680 driven by somebody who illegally immigrated here

00:46:23.680 two years ago. 0.55

00:46:25.120 No CDL at all.

00:46:27.860 Commercial driver's license.

00:46:28.860 No commercial driver's license.

00:46:30.640 The CVSA, Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance, which is this sort of like loose organization of enforcement authorities in Mexico, the United States and Canada, they do these blitzes and then they compile statistics on, you know, what are the violations?

00:46:43.320 What are truckers doing wrong every year, right?

00:46:46.160 One of the number one driver violations is not having a CDL at all or a medical card, right?

00:46:53.340 So what I'm trying to get at here is we have people operating in the American and Canadian trucking industry who do not share our compliance and safety culture.

00:47:02.200 And because the money they're making is being sent back home to, like, prop up other countries' economies, they don't care, right?

00:47:10.120 So, like, ICE could arrest some guy at a truck stop and kick him out of the country.

00:47:13.980 The guy that owns the truck is just going to put another one of his co-ethnics in the truck, right?

00:47:18.400 They have to start seizing trucks.

00:47:20.540 The English language proficiency stuff is like, it's all well and good, but the economic

00:47:25.460 forces at play here, either from the corporations that continue to hire these guys through brokers

00:47:30.820 or the incentives for these guys from overseas to continue sending their people here to

00:47:37.480 parasitize off of our trucking industry are too great.

00:47:40.800 They are not just going to follow the rules.

00:47:43.100 You can make all the new rules you want.

00:47:45.520 A lot of these guys are not, they're just not going to follow them.

00:47:48.080 You have to remove the people and then you have to seize the trucks.

00:47:51.940 Has that happened?

00:47:53.820 Well, you know, there's been some ICE stuff at a few, like, you know, inspection stations.

00:47:58.480 Some states are cooperating.

00:47:59.760 Oklahoma is a good example of this.

00:48:01.320 There was one in Indiana where, you know, ICE is working with DOT truck inspections, pulling guys out.

00:48:09.440 That's fine.

00:48:10.760 But, you know, again, these corporate lobbyists.

00:48:14.660 So Arizona, they tried to propose a rule to seize the trucks, right?

00:48:18.700 So if a truck is found to have an illegal immigrant or somebody with like a suspicious work authorization, the truck would be seized, right?

00:48:27.460 And then the company would have to come and explain themselves. 0.92

00:48:29.380 Like, why are you hiring these people to drive trucks?

00:48:31.640 Why are you doing all this illegal business? 0.68

00:48:33.500 And then maybe you'll get your truck back.

00:48:35.240 Maybe you won't.

00:48:36.640 The people who objected to that were the Arizona Trucking Association.

00:48:41.640 Yeah, yeah.

00:48:42.720 So what's going on here?

00:48:43.640 Let me tell you a little bit of industry lingo.

00:48:46.540 There's something called power only.

00:48:48.820 So this was a model of trucking where the truck and the driving part of a business is subcontracted out.

00:48:55.640 The trailer, the load, the service is still owned by another company, right?

00:49:00.060 So the people who perfected this was Federal Express.

00:49:02.840 Years and years and years ago, it used to be a good model.

00:49:06.080 You know, you could have your own truck.

00:49:07.600 You could be a subcontractor to FedEx, pull their trailers and make money, and it was fine. 0.55

00:49:11.980 That system has run into this sort of importation of in-source illegal migrants, for lack of a better word. And now, Amazon does it, right? 90-something percent of Amazon subcontractors are owned by these small carriers that are often headquartered overseas or headquartered in Chicago in ethnic enclaves like Elk Grove Village or, you know, Glendale, California with the Armenians.

00:49:38.100 and they employ their co-ethnics or guys with like suspicious work visas or no work visas or

00:49:44.520 no CDLs. And they go and haul all of Amazon stuff through the Amazon relay program. And I think six

00:49:50.640 of the executives of the Amazon relay program are Indian guys or from India or live in India. I don't

00:49:55.760 know. Anyway, that model, the big trucking companies who are represented by the American

00:50:02.480 Trucking Associations have looked at Amazon and FedEx and said, why should we even bother owning

00:50:07.940 trucks. We'll just have our trailer pools and our customers, and we'll subcontract out the driving

00:50:13.620 and the owning of the trucks to all of this cheap labor. J.B. Hunt does this, Knight Swift, Werner,

00:50:20.100 and they don't want to own trucks because hiring Americans and paying for trucks,

00:50:27.040 there's business reasons for this to write too. The cost of compliance, the cost of insurance,

00:50:33.060 the cost of dealing with all this, it's a very hostile business environment. So I sort of

00:50:37.220 understand what they're doing. But the power-only model right now mostly rides on in-sourced labor,

00:50:43.760 right? And what this does is it allows them to say, hey, we are still this American trucking

00:50:49.340 company. Look at us. We're servicing our customers, but they're not actually employing.

00:50:53.940 They're trying to get away from employing people at all and moving to the power-only model. 0.99

00:50:59.220 It's a skin suit. It's not really an American company. 0.78

00:51:01.620 Right. Yeah. There's a whole lot of that skin suit stuff going on. And I mean,

00:51:04.720 there's this problem with chameleon carriers, right? So people ask us all the time, like,

00:51:09.240 what's going on with the enforcement? These guys get in crashes, they kill all these people,

00:51:12.580 but then they just pop up again somewhere else. And so we have a problem, which, you know,

00:51:18.060 I think Duffy and Derek Bars of the FMCSA are working towards solving, but a company will

00:51:24.580 register under an LLC and they'll have what's called a motor carrier registration number.

00:51:30.180 And that motor carrier registration number is how all of their, you know, their violations and inspections and whatnot are accumulated to, and then the government is supposed to impose accountability on them.

00:51:41.580 But what happens is when a company's motor carrier number gets too many violations, they get too much heat from the feds or whatever state, they just shut that company down.

00:51:51.100 They move the equipment and the drivers to another one under a separate motor carrier number, and there's an open market in buying and selling those, which they're supposed to be clamping down on, but I'm not sure how that works.

00:52:02.060 And then they just keep operating, right?

00:52:04.820 There was a very famous incident here where this Cuban migrant working for a company called Hope Trans crashed into a family, killed almost all of them in Texas.

00:52:14.060 And Hope Trans has been on the Fed's radar forever. 0.98

00:52:17.760 You know, I think they're run by people from Moldova. 1.00

00:52:20.620 You know, again, they have no skin in the game here in America. 1.00

00:52:23.460 Why would they?

00:52:23.860 They don't care. 1.00

00:52:24.940 And, you know, they hire migrants and people that don't know any better. 1.00

00:52:28.400 And, you know, they backdoor into their electronic logging devices. 1.00

00:52:32.340 Yeah, this is another honor thing.

00:52:34.480 Okay, so in 2017, American truckers were forced to accept into their trucks this thing called the electronic logging device, right?

00:52:43.300 It's supposed to manage your hours and make it so that you can't cheat on your hours and just keep working.

00:52:49.040 The problem with that is...

00:52:50.560 And the justification was safety.

00:52:51.920 The justification was safety.

00:52:53.620 And it turns out that it has not improved safety.

00:52:56.460 In fact, it has made it worse.

00:52:57.640 and because of the self-certification process

00:53:00.560 with electronic logging device providers,

00:53:02.780 you can just sort of sign off and say to the government,

00:53:05.140 yep, we met all of your requirements.

00:53:07.420 Meanwhile, there's a guy in an office in Serbia

00:53:09.500 who you text on Telegram when you say,

00:53:12.480 hey man, I'm almost out of my hours.

00:53:14.240 And they like backdoor into the ELD, rewrite everything.

00:53:16.880 And then you just keep driving.

00:53:18.600 And roadside enforcement people have no way of catching that.

00:53:21.160 So it's like electronic voting.

00:53:22.360 It can be subverted.

00:53:23.460 Yeah.

00:53:24.500 Yeah, that's a good analogy.

00:53:25.700 Well, anything digital can be subverted.

00:53:29.440 Yeah, that's exactly what's going on. 1.00

00:53:31.000 And I mean, even before we became wise to the fact it was being subverted by these foreign actors working in our trucking industry, the ELD mandate never accounted for the incentive structure for drivers, many of whom only get paid by the mile, are constantly being delayed. 0.99

00:53:46.660 And so, you know, if you hold them up and they only get to drive so many hours a day and they're only being paid by the mile, they end up driving like maniacs, right? 0.99

00:53:54.380 So there was a study done by Overdrive Online Trucking Magazine in conjunction with these other guys, and it proved that after the ELD mandate, all of the safety concerns it was said to solve, you know, aggressive driving, guys driving tired, guys speeding, guys getting in crashes, all of that stuff went up after the ELD mandate was imposed, right?

00:54:17.580 And there was this lady who was in charge of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration for a while named Robin Hutchinson. She was asked about reviewing that. Hey, like, look, the numbers don't match. Well, we're not going to change it, right? When the government has shown that a policy or regulation or mandate they impose on Americans doesn't work, like, they're not going to change it. Like, they have their thing now, right? And like, whatever you say doesn't matter.

00:54:44.220 you're describing a chaotic and corrupt system that's becoming more chaotic and more corrupt

00:54:50.580 like a lot of systems um and so it i guess i shouldn't be surprised that we just had a

00:54:55.700 tractor trailer full of our nicotine pouches alp stolen and apparently somebody just walked in

00:55:03.060 to the facility with a fake id got in the truck and drove it off and then it just somehow

00:55:07.320 disappeared so that sounded fantastical to me like i couldn't believe that happened

00:55:11.880 Oh, freight fraud and cargo theft is just astronomical.

00:55:14.480 So that's my question.

00:55:15.360 Yeah.

00:55:15.920 This is not unusual.

00:55:17.240 This is not unusual at all.

00:55:18.700 And in fact, it's like a major, major concern.

00:55:20.800 Like we're talking hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in it.

00:55:24.140 It's not just the cargo theft, right?

00:55:26.000 Like, so there's this thing called double brokering, which is illegal, where a load broker, which is one of these intermediaries that goes between shippers and trucking companies,

00:55:35.560 well, a shipper will say, hey, load broker, we need to move this load.

00:55:39.040 the load broker will advertise it on some kind of board or an app and then trucking companies will

00:55:43.080 bid on it. Other brokers will get themselves involved and then broker it again and then take

00:55:48.760 their cut. And then sometimes because there's all these intermediaries and nobody's quite sure who's

00:55:54.900 who and a lot of them are located overseas, just the theft going on with that is incredible.

00:56:00.060 And then there's like organized gangs, for lack of a better word, who, you know, abuse all of the

00:56:05.400 sort of holes in this system that are presented with this sort of technological distance between

00:56:10.540 all of the people involved, right? Like, I'm sure that happened with your case. And I would suggest

00:56:15.180 to your friends at Alp, hire an American trucking company, go talk to them in person. Don't use

00:56:19.480 load brokers, okay? Well, that's probably wise advice. So, but how did, I'm a little bit confused

00:56:25.700 by how this works. So, I was aware of the electronic monitoring of truckers because I

00:56:31.120 know some truckers and they resent it yes right so i know that a truck is being followed at all

00:56:36.660 times it's find my phone on a big scale yeah so how could how could you say if i take my truck

00:56:43.980 which is a chevy silverado 2017 and try and run away the authorities can find me because gm will

00:56:51.000 track my truck but you have an old one too though right you've got like a 1980s in 1987 also um

00:56:57.300 yeah you should drive that one more well it constantly breaks

00:56:59.720 so if i was actually gonna run away i know some good mechanics i do too my book it's just old

00:57:06.140 and it's a bad climate but it's not about me my only point is your truck that you have in your

00:57:12.140 driveway that you put your kids in you know your pickup truck can be tracked period all of our

00:57:18.380 vehicles can be tracked by the government and are how can how can a thief steal a big rig

00:57:25.160 and not be tracked.

00:57:26.340 I don't, what is going on?

00:57:28.380 Well, I mean,

00:57:29.400 the information doesn't necessarily

00:57:33.380 go to the government right away.

00:57:36.100 No, it doesn't.

00:57:36.680 And then also, you know,

00:57:38.460 they can spoof it, they can switch.

00:57:40.140 So like you can take a trailer, right?

00:57:42.480 With a truck that's being tracked,

00:57:44.480 meet another guy at a truck stop,

00:57:46.040 drop the trailer, unhook from it,

00:57:47.280 hook it up to another truck and keep going.

00:57:48.840 And that may have been what happened to your load.

00:57:51.760 You know, I recommended my friend,

00:57:53.660 Ryan Joyce at Genlogs. So, you know how these

00:57:55.840 flock camera things are around, like

00:57:57.800 spying on everybody? There's a network

00:57:59.760 in place like that for trucks, of video

00:58:01.660 cameras, and this company called Genlogs

00:58:03.660 manages it. You know, I

00:58:05.500 sent Lexi their contacts, and maybe they

00:58:07.700 can help you find your Alps, I don't know.

00:58:10.320 But there

00:58:11.520 are all these tracking systems,

00:58:14.060 but again, they can be spoofed,

00:58:15.620 you can switch trucks. When you're

00:58:17.560 dealing with thieves who

00:58:19.220 steal whole truckloads of things, they know this, 1.00

00:58:21.440 They're not stupid. 0.98

00:58:22.580 It gets unloaded right away, transferred to another reg, 0.97

00:58:25.640 you know, distributed to whoever's going to sell the stolen material.

00:58:28.820 So there's got to be, I mean, there's obviously an entire network

00:58:31.440 of what we used to call fences, people.

00:58:33.520 Many networks, yeah.

00:58:34.620 There was a network of these people in California busted a little while ago,

00:58:39.840 and they were called the Singh Organization

00:58:41.360 because everybody involved had that, you know, Punjabi name, Singh.

00:58:47.040 It's an appellation.

00:58:47.860 It means lion.

00:58:48.760 It means a devotee of Guru Nanak.

00:58:50.840 It's not actually the last name, but there's tons of this.

00:58:55.100 It's hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars between stealing the loads, moving

00:59:00.660 them around, stealing the cargo, skimming off truckers.

00:59:04.000 So like some of these load brokers that are scummy will hire a trucker and just not pay 0.89

00:59:07.500 them.

00:59:08.020 They'll get their payment.

00:59:09.040 We're in Serbia. 0.90

00:59:10.020 We shut down.

00:59:10.660 Who cares, right?

00:59:11.380 Or some other country.

00:59:12.280 It could be Serbia, Moldova, Colombia, Pakistan.

00:59:15.300 The entire world is involved in the American transportation system.

00:59:20.080 Another interesting development that's come up is that military freight.

00:59:24.820 You know, my friend Danielle has been covering this very well.

00:59:28.480 Everybody should go follow her.

00:59:29.440 Her name is Danielle Chaufin. 1.00

00:59:30.680 She writes this subset called Highway Veritas.

00:59:34.280 Excellent researcher.

00:59:35.360 She knows the whole thing top to bottom.

00:59:37.480 And what we're seeing is that these guys who are here from whatever country, Moldova, Ukraine, India, Russia, are hauling U.S. military freight.

00:59:48.160 Actually?

00:59:49.320 Yeah.

00:59:49.620 they're hauling us we're at war with half the world i know and they're hauling our freight

00:59:53.620 on our highways the loads are being distributed illegally uh what does that mean distributed

00:59:59.100 illegally so basically there's this regulation and i can't remember the name of it right now

01:00:04.980 within the united states military procurement stuff department of war that says like your

01:00:10.360 for certain types of military equipment moves you may not use a broker or like a third-party

01:00:16.180 logistics provider. It has to be an approved carrier by the United States military. That

01:00:21.240 regulation is constantly being ignored. You're saying the same thing with the United States

01:00:25.720 Postal Service. The United States Postal Service has a regulation that says nobody but Americans

01:00:30.480 may touch the mail or something like this. And their entire freight contractor network of people

01:00:37.700 who are pulling trailers full of U.S. mail is using all of these carriers, sometimes who are

01:00:42.440 based overseas, many of them using these non-domiciled CDL drivers, don't speak English,

01:00:46.980 dangerous, poor safety records. That's who's hauling our mail. They tried to stop doing that 0.87

01:00:51.780 in October and the whole system almost seized up and they haven't figured out how to like get 0.98

01:00:56.880 these guys out or hire back Americans to do the job. And back to the military thing. So on the 0.51

01:01:07.220 on the point about data and these ELDs, all the information about bases, pictures of the loads

01:01:13.840 being hauled, what they are, military documents about the military equipment being moved gets

01:01:19.640 entered into these logging devices because they have interoperability. It's also like accounting

01:01:24.300 and monitoring the truck's performance and sending communications back and forth between the

01:01:29.560 dispatcher of the driver and the driver. So all of that data, all of that metadata about the location

01:01:35.360 of bases and the stuff being moved is being sent overseas and then to who? Who knows, right? Like

01:01:42.840 it could end up at an office in the Ukraine somewhere. It could end up at an office in

01:01:47.340 Europe or South America or India. And then those guys could be selling it to Russia, to China, to

01:01:52.360 who knows? Nobody knows. All of that, all of these military move metadata is leaving the country

01:01:59.540 via technology that our government forced on us to make us more safe, which did not make us more

01:02:05.180 safe, and it's facilitating our replacement by people from overseas. You got it?

01:02:13.300 This is, we're bumping up against the point where this interview was bumming me out too much.

01:02:18.280 Oh, dude, like, hey, man, I want to be trucking. I don't want to be a writer. I'm not,

01:02:23.280 I'm a little bit of a nerd, but I'm not that much of a nerd. I would like to be out trucking,

01:02:27.620 and I'm not, because the industry doesn't pay, they don't honor skill and competency,

01:02:31.580 and many actors within it would rather hire people

01:02:34.520 from overseas who are exploited labor.

01:02:37.000 End of story.

01:02:37.720 That's all there is to it.

01:02:40.360 It just does challenge the nature of our system

01:02:45.020 because you can't run a country

01:02:48.480 in the way that we're running it

01:02:50.180 because you're just too vulnerable to exploitation

01:02:54.280 and attack and subversion and destruction,

01:02:58.780 especially if you're in conflict with other big countries.

01:03:02.740 It's not going to work.

01:03:04.920 So that makes me sad on that level. 0.93

01:03:08.820 It's all very silly.

01:03:10.260 And again, it's not just like me losing my job. 0.71

01:03:13.640 This is not some like, oh, woe is me or woe is my fellow truckers.

01:03:16.920 This is a national security issue.

01:03:18.480 Oh, well, that's very obvious.

01:03:20.620 So, okay, I just, I never do this, but I think it's important.

01:03:25.260 End of the Road, Inside the War on Truckers by Gordman Gill is the book.

01:03:29.860 I'm not a bookseller, but I think this book is worth selling.

01:03:33.180 I wish, you know, since I finished writing it, so much more has happened, right?

01:03:37.320 Like I submitted the final manuscript in October.

01:03:40.580 And now, you know, again, back to Duffy and President Trump.

01:03:44.860 The government's trying to respond, but it's in sometimes mealy-mouthed ways where like, you know,

01:03:50.420 everyone and their dog in Congress introduced a new law to deal with the English language stuff.

01:03:54.540 I'm like, it's already it's already a law. Just enforce it like you're making a law for no reason.

01:03:59.120 But then there's this other one called Delilah's Law introduced in the Senate by Senator Jim Banks from Indiana named after this little girl who President Trump alluded to in his State of the Union speech, who was hit by a driver, an illegal driver from India. 0.95

01:04:14.300 And, you know, now she's got cerebral palsy. She was in hospital for months, had to have her brain reconstructed. Terrible, terrible, terrible story.

01:04:22.800 You know, I know her father, Marcus, and that's in front of Congress now.

01:04:28.180 They just introduced some amendments to it yesterday to hopefully clamp down on this.

01:04:33.000 There's a Supreme Court case right now that just finished hearing oral arguments, Montgomery

01:04:40.060 versus Caribe, which hinges on this question of freight brokers, right?

01:04:43.900 Because one of the problems with the safety issue is this division between like the people

01:04:47.660 that own and drive the trucks and the people farming out the loads.

01:04:50.700 And right now, all the load brokers have been taking advantage of the fact that they don't have to do any of the safety checks and they own no liability or accountability.

01:05:00.380 And this Supreme Court case—

01:05:02.240 The all-upside economic model that Americans love.

01:05:04.740 Right, yeah.

01:05:05.660 It's all-upside.

01:05:06.480 Yeah, so there's another little piece of news here. I've been asked to relate to you by an anonymous source about another court case that's going to be filed here soon by some trucking companies in Oklahoma against J.B. Hunt, against C.H. Robinson, TQL, all these big brokers, you know, that's going to attack this problem and say, like, you guys can't keep doing this.

01:05:28.500 You can't keep using these unsafe carriers and saying it's not our problem.

01:05:32.600 You can't come and take our work, right?

01:05:34.500 Like these guys in Oklahoma are trying to show that we have these customers we haul for. 0.84

01:05:38.880 And then the brokers come in, undercut us, don't even use their own trucks and farm the loads out to these operations that are all kind of illegals, right?

01:05:47.100 So that's going to be entered in soon.

01:05:48.800 And I think it's being, I think one of the lawyers involved are Nix Patterson, who are part of the opioid stuff and fighting the tobacco companies.

01:05:56.700 So that's news.

01:05:57.900 that's just yesterday. I just got the document

01:05:59.960 sent to me yesterday. This is such a

01:06:01.960 minor question, but do truckers still smoke?

01:06:04.540 I mean, some do. Some pop zins. 0.99

01:06:06.120 Some eat alp. I don't know.

01:06:07.960 I'm not a nicotine guy.

01:06:10.060 But yeah, I think there's a few guys.

01:06:11.680 How did you make it so many years in the cab

01:06:13.880 without nicotine?

01:06:16.120 Willpower, loud music, and coffee.

01:06:18.980 And staying healthy.

01:06:20.160 I don't know. When you're driving

01:06:21.840 up on the ice in the Northwest Territories

01:06:24.020 and there's no radio reception, what do you do for music?

01:06:26.180 Well, there's satellite radio and

01:06:27.740 you know, back in the day, CDs, audiobooks, music on your phone, stuff like that. You know,

01:06:34.400 I miss Canada. It's kind of a shame what's going on with it right now.

01:06:38.160 We're going to do a very long segment as soon as I can find the right person to do it on what's

01:06:43.140 happening in your native country, Canada. But I just want to end with your assessment of what

01:06:48.800 is happening in Canada, because I feel like it's one of the great undercover stories of this time.

01:06:52.660 Yeah. So, you know, last time I was on your show, I talked about these guys called the

01:06:56.280 coots for yeah and then you went to alberta and talked about them when nobody else wouldn't thank

01:07:00.620 you very much for that i know all those guys uh they extend great gratitude towards uh your

01:07:05.600 highlighting of their situation of course i love canada actually yeah yeah and the canadian media

01:07:09.680 just either lied about them or you know misinformed everybody about it but they're all out of jail now

01:07:14.280 there's a uh there's an appeal to the minor charges in their case because the original the

01:07:20.640 the big thing that got everybody scared this conspiracy to murder police officers was thrown

01:07:24.420 out of court, not guilty. And it looks like that they were made into the fall guys by

01:07:30.600 the Crown prosecutor involved in the case. And there was a number of charter breaches

01:07:35.280 in how the case was prosecuted, warrants. The whole thing is very messy. And right now,

01:07:40.700 the last two guys, so two guys got out almost two years to the day of their arrest

01:07:44.380 on unrelated charges, which were bogus. They've been out for a while. The other two gentlemen,

01:07:49.980 Chris Carbert and Tony Olienek, were recently released under something called bail on appeal.

01:07:54.420 And those two, there was the minor charges that they were convicted of, which were also BS, are being appealed.

01:08:02.540 And that appeal was the ruling on that appeal was supposed to come down last month in February.

01:08:06.440 But because it's so hot and the Canadian government is involved, it's going to be September of this year or maybe next year.

01:08:12.200 I'm not 100% sure.

01:08:13.620 But those guys are out.

01:08:14.740 That's good.

01:08:16.260 My friends Chris Barber and Tamara Leach, you know, they are on house arrest right now.

01:08:21.100 They were the most pursued members of the Freedom Convoy.

01:08:24.420 And tens and tens of millions of dollars were expended by the government to pursue peaceful protesters.

01:08:31.460 And it, you know, although that part of the story is coming to an end, this Mark Carney guy, man, like one of the things Trudeau tried to do in the wake of the Freedom Convoy was clamp down on free speech, right?

01:08:43.920 There was this bill, I think it was called C-63.

01:08:45.720 Yeah, end human rights in Canada.

01:08:47.280 Right, pretty much.

01:08:48.140 And that died when they had the election.

01:08:50.040 And now it's being resuscitated under this bill called C-9.

01:08:52.780 they don't want you to notice that like youth unemployment is through the roof in Canada they

01:08:57.780 don't want you to notice that like Chinese companies are buying up Canadian mines they

01:09:02.760 don't want you to notice that there's like five million extra people in the country on temporary

01:09:06.620 work permits that the Carney government is talking about letting some of them stay

01:09:10.560 they don't want you to notice that like your whole country is just sort of falling apart

01:09:15.300 at the seams economically they don't want you to notice that like the government just like

01:09:19.120 allows thievery to happen there was this there was this uh Stellantis the guys that own Chrysler

01:09:24.720 right the Canadian government gave them 15 billion dollars to invest in Canada Stellantis ran away

01:09:31.360 with the money and a couple of days later they're in the White House with Donald Trump announcing

01:09:34.900 13 billion dollars worth of investment in the United States right they're like they're they're

01:09:40.960 just thieves and you know Mark Kearney and his cabinet if they had any sense of honor they would

01:09:47.620 stepped down, right? Like there was another, the Supreme Court, not the Supreme Court,

01:09:51.200 there was a Superior Court ruling against Trudeau's invocation of the Emergencies Act

01:09:55.340 against the peaceful protesters from the Freedom Convoy, right? It was the Mosley decision. It found

01:10:00.220 that it was, you know, against the charter, unreasonable, unjustified. The government

01:10:04.480 filed a appeal 14 minutes later, you know, thousands of pages of documents, but they were

01:10:09.300 ready to go 14 minutes. And then that ruling on the appeal came down and said, no, you guys did

01:10:15.200 wrong. In the parliamentary

01:10:17.180 system, when, you know, members

01:10:19.280 of a cabinet or a government

01:10:20.880 are found to be involved in something

01:10:23.360 so, like, breathtakingly anti-democratic,

01:10:26.220 it's not the rule,

01:10:27.560 but it's sort of accepted practice that you

01:10:29.280 step down, at least from your cabinet position,

01:10:31.400 okay? No, you

01:10:33.020 put in prison people to criticize you. I think

01:10:35.300 that's the rule. Yeah, Carney and, like,

01:10:37.380 nine of his cabinet ministers were all

01:10:39.560 part of Trudeau. Carney,

01:10:41.500 like, wrote op-eds in the Globe and Mail,

01:10:43.100 encouraging Trudeau to freeze everyone's bank accounts

01:10:45.560 and do the Emergencies Act.

01:10:46.760 And he's still wandering around in power,

01:10:48.980 doing his thing, trying to sell Canada to China and the EU

01:10:51.720 and getting in fights with Trump.

01:10:53.120 And it's just all, it's pretty bleak up north right now.

01:10:57.540 Do you feel safe going there?

01:10:59.800 I mean, yeah, whatever.

01:11:00.940 They haven't completely erased free speech yet.

01:11:03.840 I mean, I'm going home in a couple of weeks.

01:11:05.500 Hopefully I don't get arrested, but so far, so good.

01:11:09.040 Gordon McGill, thank you for taking all this time to do this.

01:11:11.640 I think this is, you know, there's so much going on.

01:11:14.760 We're trying to, you know, there's a lot going on.

01:11:17.140 But what's happening here is always the most important thing and how, you know, our economy functions and we get food on the table is maybe the top thing.

01:11:24.980 Yeah.

01:11:25.760 Pretty important to have full grocery stores and gas stations and parts for everything and factories having their stuff delivered to.

01:11:33.380 And that entire system, we've just like sold off to the highest bidder to people from overseas who don't care about us.

01:11:40.060 Amazing.

01:11:40.960 Thank you for doing this.

01:11:42.180 Thank you, sir.

The Tucker Carlson Show - June 01, 2026

Ex-Trucker： Gang Heists, Infiltration of the Workforce and the Attempt to Replace You With Machines

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