The Tucker Carlson Show - Exclusive： Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov Describes the War With the US and How to End It

00:00:00.000 welcome to the tucker carlson show we bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else

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00:00:20.860 here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly check out all of our content

00:00:26.300 at tucker carlson.com here's the episode in the week since we left russia moscow where we are now

00:00:33.100 in february after interviewing vladimir putin we've watched from the united states as the

00:00:37.460 biden administration has driven the u.s ever closer to a nuclear conflict with russia the country that

00:00:43.300 possesses the world's largest nuclear arsenal it has accelerated ever since and it's reached its

00:00:48.920 apogee so far in the weeks after trump's election he's now the president-elect in that time just a

00:00:55.440 few weeks ago the biden administration american military personnel launched missiles into mainland

00:01:00.460 russia and killed at least a dozen russian soldiers so we are unbeknownst to most americans in a hot

00:01:07.020 war with russian undeclared war war you did not vote for and that most americans don't want but it is

00:01:11.860 ongoing and because of that war because of the fact that the u.s military is killing russians in russia

00:01:17.600 right now we are closer to nuclear war than at any time in history far closer than we were during the

00:01:24.640 cuban missile crisis that would mean the elimination of russia the united states and most of the rest of

00:01:28.700 the world we felt there must be someone behind the scenes in washington working to make sure that this

00:01:34.640 conflict doesn't become a nuclear holocaust but we found out that no in fact there is nobody tony

00:01:40.680 blinken the current secretary of state cut off all contact between the u.s and russian governments there

00:01:46.280 is no back channel there is no conversation there hasn't been for more than two years

00:01:50.060 that's shocking meanwhile most americans have no access to any perspective other than that granted

00:01:55.980 to them by nbc news and the new york times they don't know how close we are they don't know the

00:02:00.220 russian perspective we've been trying for over a year to get that perspective out to american news

00:02:06.600 consumers we've also tried for over a year to get an interview with zelensky the president of ukraine

00:02:11.280 we've attacked that from a bunch of different angles you've spoken to a lot of different people

00:02:15.120 around him had dinner with them we've been in talks continuously

00:02:17.840 and those efforts have been thwarted by the u.s government the american embassy in kiev which our

00:02:24.080 tax dollars pay for told the zelensky government no you may not do the interview you can talk to

00:02:29.080 cnn you can't talk to us so we've been unable to speak to him so we came back to moscow yesterday to

00:02:35.300 interview the foreign minister of russia sergey lavrov the longest serving foreign minister in the world

00:02:40.740 he's been a part of this government for 25 years he's been in the diplomatic corps for over 40

00:02:46.180 and asked him where exactly are we are we headed toward an unprecedented conflict between russia and

00:02:54.360 the united states is there any way to peel russia back from the east from the sphere of china back

00:03:00.020 in to the west is that alliance permanent and does the election of donald trump mean an end to this war

00:03:06.960 which is reshaping the world the u.s economy the global economy and risking the life of every person

00:03:13.020 on this planet is that possible minister lavrov thank you for doing this um do you believe the

00:03:19.000 united states and russia are at war with each other right now i wouldn't say so and uh in any case this

00:03:26.620 is not what we want uh we would like to have normal relations with all our neighbors of course but

00:03:33.760 generally with all countries or not especially with the great country like the united states

00:03:40.300 uh president putin repeatedly expressed his respect for the american people for the american history for

00:03:47.620 the american achievements in the world and uh we don't see any any reason why russia and the united

00:03:55.220 states cannot cooperate for the sake of the universe but the united states is funding a conflict that

00:04:02.900 you're involved in of course and now is allowing attacks on on russia itself so that doesn't constitute war

00:04:13.380 uh well uh we officially are not at war but what is going on uh in ukraine uh is the some people

00:04:26.340 call call it hybrid war uh i would call it hybrid war as well uh but it is obvious that the ukrainians

00:04:36.020 would not be able to do what they're doing with long-range modern weapons without direct participation

00:04:44.500 of the american servicemen and this is this is uh this is dangerous no doubt about this we don't want

00:04:53.940 to aggravate the situation but since uh attack comes and other uh long-range weapons are being used

00:05:01.460 against mainland russia uh as it were uh we are sending signals and we hope that the last one couple

00:05:09.860 of weeks ago uh the signal with the new weapon system called the rashnik yes uh was taken seriously

00:05:19.300 uh however we also know that some uh officials in the pentagon and another places including nato

00:05:31.300 they started saying in the last few days uh something like well nato is a defensive alliance but

00:05:38.020 sometimes you can strike first because the attack is the best defense uh some others in stratcom i think

00:05:46.900 uh buchanan is his name uh representative of stratcom he said something which allows for uh

00:06:00.020 an eventuality of exchange of limited nuclear strikes uh and this kind of uh threats are really

00:06:08.980 worrying because if they are following the logic which some uh westerners have been pronouncing

00:06:16.820 lately that well don't believe that russia has red lines they announced the red lines these red lines

00:06:24.340 are being moved again and again and again this is a very serious mistake that's what i'm i i would

00:06:34.500 like to say in response to this question it is not us who started the war putin repeatedly said that

00:06:41.940 we started the operation in order to end the war which kiev regime uh was conducting against its own people

00:06:51.220 in the in the parts of donbas uh and uh just in his latest statement the president clearly indicated that

00:07:01.380 we are ready for any eventuality but we strongly prefer peaceful solution through negotiations on the

00:07:11.220 basis of the basis of respecting legitimate security interests of russia and on the basis of respecting the

00:07:19.540 people who live in ukraine who still live in ukraine being russians and their basic human rights language

00:07:31.540 rights religious rights have been exterminated by series of legislation passed by

00:07:40.580 the ukrainian parliament and they started long before the special military operation since

00:07:46.260 2017 legislation was passed prohibiting russian education in russian prohibiting russian media operating

00:07:57.300 in ukraine then prohibiting ukrainian media working in russian language and the latest of course there

00:08:05.460 were also also steps to cancel any cultural events in russian russian books were thrown out of libraries and

00:08:16.980 exterminated and the latest was the law prohibiting canonic

00:08:24.900 orthodox church ukrainian orthodox church while and you know it's very interesting when

00:08:31.380 people in the west say we want this conflict to be resolved on the basis of the u.n charter and respect

00:08:41.140 for territorial integrity of ukraine russia must withdraw the secretary general of the united nations

00:08:48.980 says similar things recently his representative repeated that the conflict must be resolved on the basis of international law

00:08:58.420 u.n charter general assembly resolutions while respecting territorial integrity of ukraine

00:09:05.540 ukraine it's a misnomer because if you want to respect the united nations charter you have to respect it

00:09:13.380 in its entirety and the united nations charter among other things says that all countries must respect

00:09:22.100 respect equality uh of states and respect equality uh of states and right of people for self-determination

00:09:31.540 and they also mentioned the united nations general assembly resolutions and this is uh this is clear that

00:09:38.340 what what they mean is the uh series of resolutions uh which they passed after the beginning of the special

00:09:46.500 military operation and which demand condemnation of russia russia russia get out of ukraine territory

00:09:54.340 in 1991 borders but there are other united nations general assembly resolutions which were not voted but

00:10:03.220 which were consensual and among them is a declaration on principles of relations between states on the basis of

00:10:12.980 the charter and uh and uh it clearly says by consensus everybody must respect territorial integrity of states

00:10:22.740 whose governments respect the right of people for self-determination and because of that represent the

00:10:32.180 entire population living on a given territory to argue that the people who came to power through military

00:10:41.300 coup d'etat in february 2014 represented crimeans or the citizens of eastern and southern ukraine is

00:10:52.420 absolutely useless it is obvious that crimeans rejected the coup they said leave us alone we don't want to

00:10:59.300 have anything with you so did donbass crimeans held referendum and they rejoined russia donbass was

00:11:08.740 declared by the putschers who came to power a terrorist group they were shelled attacked by artillery uh

00:11:18.500 the war started which was stopped in february 2015 and the minsk agreements were signed and we were very

00:11:27.620 sincerely interested in closing this this drama by seeing minsk agreements implemented fully

00:11:35.380 uh it uh it was sabotaged by the government uh which was uh established after the coup d'etat in ukraine

00:11:45.620 there was a demand that they enter into a direct dialogue with the people who did not accept the coup

00:11:53.860 there was a demand that they promote economic relations with that part of ukraine

00:12:01.140 and so on and so forth none of this was done uh the people in kiev were saying we can we would never talk

00:12:07.940 to them directly uh and this is uh in spite of the fact that the demand to talk to them directly was

00:12:15.540 endorsed by the security council and they said they are terrorists we would be you know fighting them and

00:12:22.180 they would be dying in sellers because we are stronger uh had the coup in february 2014

00:12:35.860 had it not happened and had the deal which was reached the day before between the then president and

00:12:43.860 the opposition implemented ukraine would have stayed one piece by now with crimea in it it's absolutely

00:12:52.660 clear they did not deliver on the deal instead they staged the coup the deal by the way uh provided

00:13:00.660 for creation of a government of national unity in february 2014 and holding early early elections which the

00:13:09.700 then president would would would have lost everybody knew that but they were impatient and they took the

00:13:21.860 government buildings next morning they went to this maidan square and announced that they created the

00:13:28.740 government of the winners compared the government of national unity to prepare for elections and the

00:13:36.500 government of the winners how can the people whom they in their view defeated how can they pretend that they

00:13:47.860 respect the the the authorities in kiev you know the right for self-determination is the international

00:13:56.180 legal basis for decolonization process which took place in africa on the basis of this charter principle

00:14:06.500 right for self-determination the people in the colonies they never treated the colonial powers colonial

00:14:15.300 masters as somebody who represent them as somebody whom they want to see uh in the in the structures

00:14:25.380 which govern those lands by the same token the people in east and south of ukraine uh people in donbass and

00:14:33.780 nova russia they don't consider the zielensky regime as somebody as something which represents their

00:14:42.820 interests how can they when their culture their language their traditions their religion all this was

00:14:51.620 was prohibited yes and the last point is that if we speak about the u.n charter resolutions international

00:15:00.420 law the very first article of the u.n charter which the west never never recalls in the ukrainian context

00:15:10.100 says respect human rights of everybody irrespective of race gender language or religion

00:15:22.900 take any conflict the united states uk brussels they would interfere saying oh human rights

00:15:30.020 have been grossly violated we must restore the human rights in such and such territory on ukraine

00:15:38.740 never ever they mumbled the words human rights seeing these human rights for the russian and russian

00:15:47.860 speaking population being totally exterminated by by law so when people say let's resolve the conflict on

00:15:56.740 the basis of the chatter yes but don't forget that the chatter is not only about territorial integrity and

00:16:04.900 territorial integrity must be respected only if the governments are legitimate and if they respect the

00:16:11.300 right of their own people i want to go back to what you said a moment ago about the introduction or the

00:16:16.740 unveiling of the hypersonic weapon system that you said was a signal to the west what signal exactly i think

00:16:23.220 many americans are not even aware that this happened what message were you sending by showing it to the

00:16:28.900 world well the message is that you i mean you the united states and the uh allies of the united states

00:16:38.420 who also provide this uh long-range uh weapons to the kiev regime they must understand that we would be

00:16:47.460 ready to use any means not to allow them to succeed in what they call strategic defeat of russia

00:16:58.180 they fight for keeping their hegemony uh over the world on any country any region any continent

00:17:09.940 we fight for our legitimate security interests uh they say for example 1991 borders

00:17:19.780 lindsey gramp who visited some time ago zelensky for another another talk uh he bluntly

00:17:27.700 in presence of zelensky i think said that ukraine is very rich with rare earth metals uh and we cannot leave

00:17:35.940 this this this uh this uh this rich uh this richness to the russians we must take it we fight so they fight

00:17:46.420 for the regime which is ready to sell or to give to the west uh all the natural and human resources uh we

00:17:57.780 fight for the people who have been living on these lands whose ancestors were actually developing those

00:18:06.900 lands building cities building factories for centuries and centuries we care about people not about uh

00:18:15.380 natural resources uh which somebody in the united states would like would like to to keep uh and to

00:18:23.300 have ukrainians just as uh as servants on sitting on these natural resources so the message which we

00:18:33.060 wanted to sell by testing in real in real action uh this hypersonic system uh is that we will

00:18:46.340 we will be ready to do anything to defend our legitimate interest

00:18:51.300 we hate even to think about war with the united states which will take you know nuclear nuclear character

00:19:00.900 our military doctrine says that the most important thing is to avoid a nuclear war and it was us by the

00:19:09.540 way who initiated in january 2022 the message the joint statement by the leaders of the five uh permanent

00:19:20.580 members of the security council saying that we will do anything to avoid confrontation between us

00:19:28.740 acknowledging and respecting each other's security interests and concerns this was our initiative

00:19:38.260 and the security interests of russia were totally ignored when they rejected about the same time

00:19:48.820 when they rejected the proposal to conclude a treaty on security guarantees for russia for ukraine in the

00:19:58.100 context of uh coexistence and in the context when ukraine would not be ever member of nato or any other

00:20:08.340 military bloc this security interest of russia were presented to the west to nato and to the united states

00:20:17.460 in december 2021 we discussed them several times including during my meeting with tony blinken and geneva in

00:20:25.860 january late january 2022 and this was rejected

00:20:31.460 so we would certainly like to avoid any misunderstanding and since the people some people in washington and some

00:20:45.940 people in london in brussels uh seem to be not very capable to understand uh we will we will send additional

00:20:58.500 messages if they don't if they don't draw necessary conclusions the fact that we're having a conversation

00:21:05.940 about a potential nuclear exchange and it's it's real um is remarkable not something i thought i'd ever see

00:21:12.820 and it raises the question how much um back channel dialogue is there between russia and the united states has there been for the last two and a half years is there any conversation

00:21:25.380 there are there are there are several channels but mostly on exchange of people who serve terms in russia and in the united states there were several swaps

00:21:37.940 uh there are also channels which are not uh advertised or publicized uh but basically the americans

00:21:47.460 send through these channels the same message which they send publicly

00:21:50.500 publicly you have to stop uh you have to uh accept the the uh way which will be based

00:22:03.300 on the ukrainian needs and ukrainian position uh they support this absolutely pointless peace formula by

00:22:12.020 zelensky which was additioned recently by victory plan uh they held several series of meetings

00:22:20.020 copenhagen format bürgenstock what have you uh and they brag uh that next year first half of next

00:22:29.620 year they will convene another conference and they will graciously invite russia that time and then

00:22:38.180 russia would be presented an ultimatum all this is uh seriously repeated through various

00:22:49.460 confidential channels uh now we hear something different uh including zelensky statements that we can stop

00:22:58.100 now at the line of engagement line of contact uh the uh ukrainian government will be will be admitted to

00:23:08.900 nato but nato guarantees at this stage would cover only the territory controlled by the government and

00:23:18.900 the rest uh would be would be subject to negotiations but the end result of these negotiations must be total

00:23:26.740 withdrawal of russia from from russian soil basically leaving russian people to the nazist regime

00:23:37.220 which exterminated all the rights of the russian and russian-speaking citizens of their own country

00:23:45.540 if i just go back to the question of nuclear exchange so there is no mechanism by which the leaders

00:23:51.380 of russia and the united states can speak to each other to avoid the kind of misunderstanding that could

00:23:57.540 kill hundreds of millions of people no no no we we we have this channel which is automatically engaged

00:24:04.180 when ballistic missile launch is uh taking place uh as regards this uh orishnik hypersonic ballistic missile

00:24:16.340 mid-range ballistic missile uh 30 minutes in advance this system sent the message to the united states and

00:24:25.060 they knew that this was the the the uh this was the case uh and that they don't mistake it for anything uh

00:24:36.500 bigger and real dangerous i think the system sounds very dangerous well it was it was a test launch you

00:24:46.500 know yes oh you're speaking of the test okay but i just wonder how worried you are that considering

00:24:54.500 there doesn't seem to be a lot of conversation between the two countries both sides are speaking

00:24:59.220 about exterminating the other's populations that this could somehow get out of control in a very short

00:25:04.900 period and no one could stop it it seems incredibly no we are not talking about exterminating anybody's

00:25:10.660 population we did not start this war uh we have been uh for years and years and years

00:25:19.860 sending warnings that pushing nato closer and closer to our borders is going to create a problem yes 2007

00:25:31.380 putin putin started uh to explain you know to the people who seem to be overtaken by the uh end of

00:25:40.100 history and uh being dominant uh no challenge and so on and so forth and of course when the

00:25:48.100 coup took place the americans did not hide that they were behind it there is a conversation between

00:25:59.860 victoria nuland and the then american ambassador in kiev when they discuss uh personalities to be included in

00:26:08.180 the new government after the coup uh the figure of five billion bucks uh spent on ukraine after independence

00:26:19.300 was mentioned as the guarantee that uh everything would be like the americans want so we don't have

00:26:25.860 any any intention to exterminate ukrainian people they are brothers and sisters to the to the russian people

00:26:34.820 how many have died so far do you think on both sides it is not disclosed by ukrainians zelensky was

00:26:41.700 saying that it is much less than 80 000 persons on on ukrainian side but there is one very very reliable

00:26:51.700 figure uh in palestine during one year uh after the israelis started the operation in response to this

00:27:04.900 terrorist attack which we condemned and this operation of course acquired the uh the proportion of

00:27:13.940 uh collective uh collective punishment which is against international humanitarian law as well so during

00:27:22.180 one year after the uh operation started in palestine uh the number of civilians palestinian civilians

00:27:31.700 uh killed uh is estimated uh 45 000 this is almost twice as many as the number of civilians on both sides of

00:27:48.100 ukrainian conflict who died during 10 years after the coup one year and 10 years so it is it is a tragedy

00:27:58.500 uh in ukraine it's disaster in palestine uh but we never ever had as our goal uh killing people and ukrainian

00:28:13.140 regime did the head of the office of zelensky uh once said that we will make sure that

00:28:26.500 that cities like karkov nikolaev will forget what russian means at all another guy in his office

00:28:38.820 stated that ukrainians must exterminate russians through law or if necessary physically

00:28:49.620 ukrainian former ambassador to kazakhstan forgot his name became famous when giving an interview and

00:28:57.860 looking into the camera being recorded uh and broadcast he said our main task is to kill as many russians

00:29:07.380 as we can so that our kids have less things to do and the statements like this are all over the

00:29:16.980 the uh vocabulary of the uh vocabulary of the regime how many russians in russia have been killed since

00:29:22.580 february of 2022 it's it's not for me to disclose this information the in the time of military operations

00:29:30.820 special rules exist and our ministry of defense follows these rules but the the

00:29:37.620 the very interesting fact that when zelensky was uh playing uh not in international arena but at his

00:29:52.420 comedy club or whatever it is called uh he was uh there are videos of from from that period when he was

00:30:02.820 he was bluntly defending the russian language he was saying uh what what is wrong with russian language

00:30:12.740 i speak russian russians are our neighbors russian is our one of one of our languages uh and get lost he

00:30:23.300 said to those who wanted to sorry uh to attack the russian language and russian culture when he became

00:30:32.180 president he changed very fast and uh before the military operations in september 2021 he was interviewed

00:30:42.180 and at that time he was conducting war against donbass in violation of the minsk agreements and the

00:30:48.740 interviewer asked him what he thought about the people on the other side of the line of contact

00:30:54.420 and he answered very thoughtfully uh you know there are people and there are species and if you living in

00:31:05.540 ukraine feel associated with the russian culture my advice to you for the sake of your kids for the sake of

00:31:12.420 your grandkids get out to russia and if if this guy wants to bring russians and people of russian culture

00:31:27.700 back under his territorial integrity i mean it's it's it shows that he is not adequate so what are the

00:31:39.300 terms under which russia would cease hostilities like what what are what are you asking for 10 years

00:31:45.940 ago in february 2014 we were asking only for the deal between the president and their position yes to

00:31:54.820 have government of national units had to hold early elections to be implemented the deal was signed and

00:32:01.940 we were asking for the implementation of this deal they were absolutely impatient and aggressive and

00:32:11.860 they were of course pushed i have no slightest doubt by the americans because if victoria nuland and the

00:32:18.740 u.s ambassador agreed the composition of the government why wait for five weeks for five months to hold

00:32:25.940 early elections the next time we were in favor of something was when the minsk agreements were signed yes

00:32:35.780 i was there the negotiations lasted for 17 hours and the deal was well crimea was lost by then by that time

00:32:46.660 because of referendum and nobody including my colleague john kerry meeting with us nobody in the west was

00:32:57.700 raising the issue of crimea everybody was concentrated on donbas and the minsk agreements provided for

00:33:07.220 territorial integrity of ukraine minus crimea this was not even raised

00:33:13.220 uh and a special status uh and a special status for a very tiny part of donbas not for the entire donbas

00:33:23.380 not for nova russia for novorossia at all part of donbas under this minsk agreements endorsed by the

00:33:31.780 security council should have the right to speak russian language to teach russian language to study in russian

00:33:43.220 to have local law enforcement like in the in the states of u.s uh to be consulted when judges and

00:33:54.580 prosecutors are appointed by the central authority and to have some facilitated economic uh connections

00:34:03.620 with neighboring regions of russia that's it something which president macron promised to give to

00:34:12.740 corsica and uh and uh still is considering how how to do this and when these agreements

00:34:24.340 were sabotaged all along by first by poroshenko and then by zelensky both of them by the way came to

00:34:33.540 uh presidency running on the on the promise of peace and both of them uh light uh so when this minsk

00:34:44.500 agreements uh was sabotaged to the extent uh that we we saw the attempts to take this tiny part of donbas

00:34:54.020 by force uh by force uh and we as putin explained uh we have at that time we suggested this security

00:35:03.620 arrangements to nato in the united states which was which was rejected uh and when the plan b uh was

00:35:11.540 launched by ukraine and its sponsors they trying to take this part of donbas by force it was then that we

00:35:19.300 that we launched the special military operation uh had they implemented the minsk agreements ukraine

00:35:26.740 would be one piece minus crime here but even then when ukrainians after we started the operation

00:35:33.460 suggested to negotiate we agreed there were several rounds in belarus and one later they moved to istanbul

00:35:41.300 and in istanbul ukrainian delegation put a paper on the table saying those are the principles on which

00:35:49.940 we are ready to agree and we accepted those the minsk principles no no no the istanbul principles it was

00:35:59.300 april 22 right uh which was no nato but security guarantees to ukraine collectively

00:36:11.140 provided provided with the participation of russia uh and these security guarantees would not cover

00:36:19.300 crimea or the east of ukraine it was their proposal uh and uh it was initialed and the head of the

00:36:29.700 ukrainian delegation in istanbul who is now the uh chair of the zelensky faction in the parliament

00:36:39.860 uh he recently a few months ago in an interview he confirmed that this was the case and on the

00:36:47.140 basis of these principles we were ready to draft a treaty but then this gentleman who headed the ukrainian

00:36:57.220 delegation in istanbul he said that joe boris johnson visited and told them to continue to fight

00:37:04.900 um then there was um but boris johnson on behalf of he said no but you know the the guy who who who

00:37:17.300 who initialed the paper he said it was boris johnson other other people say it was putin who ruined the

00:37:24.100 deal because of the massacre in butcher but massacre in butcher is something which i they don't they never

00:37:32.260 mentioned anymore anymore massacre in butcher i do and we do uh in a sense uh they are on the on the

00:37:41.220 defensive several times in the united nations security council uh sitting at the table with antonio

00:37:49.220 guterres i two years ago and last year and last year and this year the general assembly i raised the

00:37:59.460 issue of butcher and said guys it is strange that you are silent about butcher because you were very

00:38:05.700 vocal when bbc team found itself uh on the street where the bodies were located uh and can we uh i

00:38:16.980 inquired can we get the names of the persons whose bodies were uh broadcast by bbc uh total silence i

00:38:25.380 addressed antonio guterush personally in the presence of the security council members

00:38:33.140 he did not respond then at my press conference in new york after the end of the general assembly last

00:38:40.580 september i asked all the correspondents guys you are journalists maybe you're not an investigative

00:38:50.180 journalist but journalists but journalists normally are interested to get the truth and butcher thing

00:38:57.780 which was played all over the media outlets condemning russia is not of any interest to anyone

00:39:06.900 politicians un officials and now even journalists i asked them when i talked to them in september

00:39:16.900 please please as a professional as professional people try to get the names of those who whose bodies

00:39:26.020 was shown in butcher no answer just like we don't have any answer to the question where is the results of

00:39:35.780 of medical analysis of alexei navalny who died recently uh but who was treated

00:39:47.940 in germany in the fall of 2020 when he felt bad uh on a plane over russia the plane landed uh he was

00:39:58.580 treated by uh the russian doctors in siberia then the germans wanted to take him we immediately allowed

00:40:05.700 the plane to come they took him in less than 24 hours he was he was in germany and then the germans

00:40:14.180 continued to say that we poisoned him uh and we asked them can you and they announced that the analysis

00:40:23.380 confirmed confirmed that he was poisoned we asked for the for the test results to be given to us they

00:40:30.500 said no we give it to organization on chemical weapons we went to this organization we are members and we

00:40:38.660 said can you show to us because this is our citizen we are accused of having poisoned him they said the

00:40:48.100 germans told us not to give it to you because uh they found nothing in the civilian hospital

00:40:58.820 and the announcement that he was poisoned was was made uh after the he was treated in a military hospital

00:41:09.380 bundesware hospital so uh it seems that uh this this um secret is not going so how did nuvalny die

00:41:22.740 well he died uh in a serving the term in russia but he do during as far as it was reported every now and

00:41:33.700 then he felt not not well which was another reason why we continued to ask the germans can you show us

00:41:41.540 the results which you found because we did not find what they found and what they did to him i don't know

00:41:49.700 what the germans did to him yeah because they don't they don't explain to anybody including us

00:41:56.420 or maybe they explained to the americans

00:41:58.340 uh maybe this is this is credible but they never told us how they treated him what they found uh and

00:42:06.420 what what methods they they were using how do you think he died i'm not a doctor but for anybody to

00:42:14.100 guess even for the doctors to try to guess they need to have information and if the person was taken to

00:42:22.260 germany to be treated after he had been poisoned the results of them of the tests uh cannot be secret we

00:42:32.900 still cannot we still cannot get anything credible on the fate of uh skripal sergey skripal and his and his

00:42:42.420 daughter uh the information is not provided to us he is our citizen uh and we have all the have all the

00:42:56.580 rights and the conventions which the uk is party to uh to get information why do you think so many

00:43:04.740 threads but why do you think that boris johnson former prime minister of the uk would have stopped the

00:43:11.060 peace process in istanbul on whose behalf was he doing well i met with him a couple of times and

00:43:17.620 i wouldn't be surprised if

00:43:22.100 if he was motivated by some immediate desire or by some long-term strategy

00:43:28.260 he is not very predictable okay do you think he was acting on behalf of the us government on behalf of

00:43:34.900 the biden administration was doing this independently i mean on i i don't know

00:43:40.660 i don't know and i wouldn't guess uh the fact that uh the americans and the brits are leading in this

00:43:49.220 in this quote unquote situation is is obvious uh now it is uh becoming also clear that there is a fatigue

00:44:00.420 uh in some capitals and there are talks every now and then that the americans would like uh to leave

00:44:10.180 it with the europeans and to concentrate on something more important uh i wouldn't guess we will we would

00:44:18.420 be judging by by specific uh specific steps it's it's obvious though that biden administration would like

00:44:28.340 to leave uh legacy to the trump administration as bad as as they can yes uh and similar to what obama did

00:44:38.100 to trump during his first storm when late december 2016 obama expelled russian diplomats just

00:44:50.180 very late december 120 persons with family members uh did it on purpose demanded them on leave on the

00:44:59.700 day when there was no direct flight from washington so they had to move to new york by buses

00:45:06.260 with all their luggage with children and so on and so forth and at the same time obama announced the

00:45:13.460 arrest of pieces of diplomatic property of russia and uh it is we still never were able

00:45:22.180 to come and see what what is the state of this of this russian russian property they never allowed us

00:45:30.500 to come and see though under all convention they just say that this these pieces we don't consider as

00:45:36.260 being covered by diplomatic immunity which is a unilateral decision never substantiated by any

00:45:42.660 international court so you believe the biden administration is doing something similar again

00:45:46.500 to the incoming trump administration because because that episode with the expulsion and the seizure

00:45:51.860 of property certainly did not create the uh promising ground for beginning of our relations with the trump

00:46:00.420 administration uh so i think they're doing the same but this time president trump was elected on the

00:46:09.300 explicit promise to bring an end to the war in ukraine so i mean he said that in um appearance after

00:46:18.180 appearance so given that there is hope for a resolution it sounds like what are the terms to which you'd

00:46:24.900 agree well the terms i basically alluded to them when president putin spoke in this ministry on the 14th of june

00:46:39.540 he once again reiterated that we were ready to negotiate on the basis of the principles which were agreed

00:46:49.860 in istanbul and rejected by boris johnson according to the statement of the head of the ukrainian delegation

00:46:59.140 uh the key principle uh is uh no non-block status of ukraine and we would be ready to be part of the

00:47:09.780 group of countries who would provide collective security guarantees to no nato no nato absolutely no military

00:47:17.700 basis no military military exercises on the ukrainian soil with participation of uh foreign foreign troops

00:47:26.500 and this is something which he reiterated but of course he said it was uh april 2022 now some time has

00:47:38.020 passed and the realities on the ground would have to be taken into account and accepted the realities on the

00:47:45.860 ground are not only the line of contact but also the changes in the russian constitution after

00:47:52.900 referenda was held in uh donetsk lugansk republics and herson and zaporozhye regions yes and they are now

00:48:04.260 part of the russian federation according to the constitution and this is a reality and of course we cannot

00:48:12.260 we cannot we cannot uh tolerate a deal which would keep uh the legislation which i quoted prohibiting russian

00:48:26.660 language russian media russian culture uh ukrainian orthodox church because it is a violation of the

00:48:35.780 the obligations of ukraine under the u.n charter and somebody must be done about it and the fact that

00:48:42.500 the west since this uh russophobic uh legislative uh legislative uh offensive started in 2017 and

00:48:52.100 since the west was totally silent and it is silent until now uh of course we would have to

00:48:58.820 pay attention to this in a very special way would dropping sanctions against russia be a condition

00:49:05.220 i would say uh probably many people in russia would would like to make it a condition

00:49:14.420 but the more we live under sanctions the more we understand that it is better to rely on yourself

00:49:23.700 and to develop mechanisms to develop platforms for cooperation with normal

00:49:30.020 uh countries who are not unfriendly to you uh and not and don't mix uh economic interest uh and policies

00:49:40.740 and especially politics and uh we learned a lot uh after the sanctions started sanctions started under under

00:49:49.860 obama they continued in a very big way under first term of trump uh and this

00:49:56.500 this sanctions under the biden administration are absolutely unprecedented but uh what doesn't kill

00:50:04.020 you make makes you stronger you know and well but it also just drives they would be never kill us so

00:50:09.540 they are making us stronger and driving russia east and so the vision that i think sane policy makers in

00:50:17.220 washington washington had 20 years ago is why not bring russia into a western bloc

00:50:24.820 sort of as a balance against the rising east and but it doesn't seem like that do you think that's still

00:50:29.380 possible uh i don't think so recently putin was uh speaking at valdi club

00:50:41.780 politologists and experts uh he said we would never be back at the situation of early 2022

00:50:52.900 uh that's when uh he realized for himself apparently not only he but he he spoke publicly about this

00:51:05.860 that all attempts uh to be on equal uh terms with the west have failed it started

00:51:15.700 uh in uh after the demise of the soviet union there was euphoria we are now part of the uh liberal world

00:51:25.460 the democratic world end of history uh but very soon it was it became clear to most of the russians

00:51:33.860 that uh in the 90s we were treated as

00:51:38.180 uh at best as junior partner maybe not even as a partner but there's a place where uh the west can

00:51:50.100 organize things like it like it wants uh striking deals with uh oligarchs buying uh resources and assets

00:52:01.780 uh and then probably the americans decided that russia is in their pocket boris yeltsin bill clinton bodies

00:52:16.340 laughing joking but even at the end of uh yeltsin's term he started to contemplate

00:52:26.980 uh that this was not something uh she wanted for russia and i think this was uh very obvious uh when he

00:52:42.580 appointed putin prime minister and then left earlier uh and uh blessed putin as his successor

00:52:52.980 for the elections which were coming and which putin won uh but when

00:53:00.100 putin became president he was very much open to cooperation with the west and he mentions about

00:53:08.820 this quite quite regularly when he speaks uh with interviewers or at some international international

00:53:17.460 events uh i was present when uh uh he met with uh george bush jr with obama

00:53:32.820 well after the meeting of nato in bucharest which was accompanied which was followed by nato russia

00:53:42.900 meeting summit meeting summit meeting in 2008 when they announced that georgia and ukraine will be in

00:53:50.660 nato and then they tried to sell it to we asked why uh there was lunch and putin asked what was the

00:53:59.140 reason for this good question and they said uh you know this is something which is not obligatory

00:54:06.340 how come well you know to start the process of joining nato you need a formal invitation

00:54:20.020 and this is a slogan ukraine and georgia will be in nato

00:54:26.980 but this slogan you know became obsession for some people in tbilisi first when saakashvili lost his

00:54:35.220 census and started the war against his own people under the protection of osc mission with the russian

00:54:46.180 peacekeepers on the ground and the fact that he launched this was confirmed by the european union

00:54:53.620 investigation which they launched and which concluded that he gave the the order to start and

00:55:01.860 for ukrainians it took a bit longer and they were cultivating this pro-western mood

00:55:12.180 well pro-western is not bad basically praise that is also not bad what is bad is that you tell people

00:55:21.700 either or either you go with me or you my enemy what happened before the the coup in ukraine

00:55:30.180 in 2013 uh the president of ukraine it was mr yanukovych uh negotiated with the european union some

00:55:42.420 association agreement uh which would nullify tariffs on most of the ukrainian goods to the european union

00:55:49.860 and the other way around and at some point when he was meeting with with russian counterparts

00:55:57.620 uh we told him you have already ukraine had

00:56:07.140 was part of the free trade area of the commonwealth of independent states no tariffs for everybody and we

00:56:15.060 russia negotiated agreement with a world trade organization for some 15-17 years mostly because

00:56:25.300 we bargained with european union and we achieved some protection for many of our sectors

00:56:35.140 agriculture some others and we explained to the ukrainians that if you go zero in your trade with

00:56:45.940 european union we would have to protect our customs border with you with ukraine

00:56:53.620 otherwise the zero tariff european goods would flood and would be hurting our industries which we tried

00:57:00.820 to protect and agreed for some protection then we suggested to the european union guys ukraine is our

00:57:10.420 common neighbor you want to have a better trade with ukraine we want the same ukraine want to have markets

00:57:18.340 both in europe and in russia why don't we see three of us and discuss it like grown-ups

00:57:26.340 the head of the european council commission commission was the portuguese boroso was his name

00:57:35.060 and he responded you know it's none none of your business what we do with ukraine we for example we

00:57:44.500 the european union we don't ask you to discuss with us your trade with china absolutely arrogant answer

00:57:52.660 and then the the president of ukraine yanukovych he convened his experts and the experts said yes it

00:58:01.300 would be uh not very good if we have uh opened the border with with european union but the customs

00:58:11.140 border with russia would be would be closed and they would be checking you know

00:58:15.460 uh what what is coming uh so that the the russian market is not is not affected uh and he announced

00:58:26.740 in november 2013 uh that he cannot sign the deal immediately and he asked the european union to postpone

00:58:36.500 it for next year until next year that was the the trigger for maidan which was immediately yes

00:58:43.220 uh thrown up and uh ended by by by by the cool my point is that this either or actually the first

00:58:51.540 the first coup took place in 2004 when after second round of elections the same mr yanukovych won

00:59:01.620 presidency the west raised hell and uh put pressure on the constitutional court of ukraine

00:59:12.900 to rule that there must be a third round and the constitution of ukraine says

00:59:20.180 two rounds and the constitutional court under the pressure of the west violated the constitution for

00:59:26.180 the first time then and pro-western candidate was was chosen at that time when all this was taking

00:59:34.580 place and boiling the european leaders were publicly saying ukrainian people must decide

00:59:40.100 are they with us or with russia this either or is is still very much very much but it is the way that

00:59:48.420 big countries behave i mean there are certain orbits and now it's brics versus nato u.s versus china and it

00:59:54.660 sounds like you're saying the russian chinese alliance is permanent um well we are neighbors we are

01:00:02.180 neighbors of course and uh geography is very important but you're also neighbors with western

01:00:07.300 europe when you're part of it in effect well through ukraine and the western europe wants to come to our

01:00:13.460 borders uh and there were plans that uh you know were discussed almost openly to put british naval bases

01:00:23.940 on the sea of azov uh crimea was eyed you know uh dreaming about creating nato base in crimea

01:00:34.820 and so on and so forth we want look we we have been very friendly with finland for example overnight

01:00:45.220 the fins came back to uh early years of uh preparation for world war ii when they were best allies of hitler

01:00:56.020 uh and all this all this neutrality all this friendship going to sauna together playing hockey

01:01:04.740 together all this disappeared overnight so maybe this was deep in their hearts and the neutrality was

01:01:14.340 burdening them and niceties were burdening for them i don't know that's totally possible can you

01:01:21.220 negotiate with zelensky you've pointed out that he has exceeded his term he's not

01:01:26.820 you know democratically elected president of ukraine anymore so do you consider him a suitable partner

01:01:32.100 for negotiations um putin addressed this issue as well many times uh in september 2022 during the first

01:01:45.300 year of the special operation zelensky uh in his uh conviction that uh he would be dictating

01:01:56.260 the terms of the situation also to the west he signed the decree prohibiting any negotiations

01:02:05.380 with putin's government and when uh during public events after that episode putin

01:02:14.180 is asked why russia is not ready for negotiations he said don't turn it upside down

01:02:19.540 no we are ready for negotiations provided it will be based on the uh balance of interest tomorrow but

01:02:29.620 zelensky signed this decree prohibiting negotiations and for starters why don't you tell him to cancel it

01:02:36.180 publicly this will be a signal that he wants negotiations instead zelensky invented his

01:02:44.020 peace formula later it was um addition by victory plan and they keep saying we know what they what they

01:02:53.940 say when they meet with european union ambassadors and uh in other formats they say no deal

01:03:05.220 unless the deal is on our terms and they i i mentioned to you that they are planning now the second summit

01:03:14.900 uh on the basis of this peace formula and they uh they don't shy away from saying we will invite russia

01:03:25.860 to pre to to put in front of it the deal which we agreed already with the west and when uh when our

01:03:35.540 western colleagues sometimes say nothing about ukraine without ukraine uh in effect this implies that

01:03:47.300 anything about russia without russia because they they discuss what kind of conditions we must accept

01:03:55.140 uh by the way recently they uh already uh violate uh tacitly the the concept nothing about ukraine without

01:04:07.620 ukraine there are passes there are messages uh they know our position we are not playing double game

01:04:17.700 what putin announced is the goal of our operation it's fair it's fully in line with the united nations

01:04:24.660 charter first of all the rights language rights minority rights national minority rights religious

01:04:33.300 rights and it's fully in line with osc principle there is an organization for security and cooperation

01:04:42.500 in europe which is still alive and uh the summit of this organization well several summits of this

01:04:50.820 organization clearly stated that security must be indivisible that nobody should expand his security

01:04:59.940 at the expense of security of others and that most important no organization in your atlantic space

01:05:08.900 shall claim dominance this was last time it was confirmed by osc 2010

01:05:16.260 and nato was doing exactly the opposite yes so we have we have legitimacy you know in our position

01:05:25.620 no nato on our doorsteps because osc uh you know agreed that this should not be the case if if it hurts us

01:05:34.500 and please restore the rights of russians um who do you think has been making foreign policy decisions in the united states

01:05:41.700 states this is a question in the united states who is making i i wouldn't guess i haven't seen tony

01:05:47.060 blinken for for years two years ago i think at the g20 summit was it in roma somewhere in the margins in

01:05:56.340 the margins his his assistant i was representing putin and his assistant came up to me during a meeting and

01:06:03.780 said that tony wants uh to talk uh just for 10 minutes i left the room we shook hands uh and he

01:06:12.900 said something about the need to de-escalate and so on and so forth i hope he is not going to be angry

01:06:19.700 with me uh since i am disclosing this but we were meeting in front of many people present in the room

01:06:29.380 and uh i said we don't want to escalate you want to uh inflict strategic defeat upon russia he said no

01:06:36.660 no no no it is not it is not strategic defeat uh globally it is only in ukraine you've not spoken

01:06:44.100 to him since no have you spoken to any officials in the bite administration since then i don't want

01:06:52.500 to ruin their career but have you had meaningful conversations no no not at all no i when when you

01:07:03.140 know when i met uh in in international events one or another person whom i know uh an american name yeah

01:07:15.540 some of them say hello some of them exchange few words but i never impose myself but but nothing

01:07:22.980 meaning it's becoming contagious you know when they see when somebody

01:07:31.620 sees an american talking to me or a european talking to me europeans are running away when they see me

01:07:42.420 during the last g20 meeting it was ridiculous grown-up people mature people they behave like

01:07:50.900 like he's so childish unbelievable so you said that when in 2016 in december the obama administration

01:07:59.380 left a bunch of bombs basically for the incoming trump administration in the last month since the

01:08:05.780 election um you have all sorts of things going on politically in bordering states in this region

01:08:15.300 um that you know in georgia and belarus in romania and then of course most dramatically in syria you have

01:08:24.340 turmoil does this seem like part of an effort by the united states to make the resolution more difficult

01:08:32.660 there is nothing new frankly because the u.s historically in foreign policy was motivated by

01:08:43.940 making some trouble and then to see if they can fish in the muddy water

01:08:50.660 iraqi aggression libyan adventure ruining the state

01:08:56.260 basically uh fleeing from afghanistan now trying to get back through the back door

01:09:04.820 using the united nations you know to organize some uh event where the u.s can be present

01:09:13.940 in spite of the fact that they left afghanistan in very bad shape and

01:09:18.900 uh arrested money don't want to to to to give it back uh i think this is if you if you analyze the american

01:09:30.820 foreign policy uh steps adventures most of them is the right word uh

01:09:38.180 uh that's that's the pattern pattern they create some trouble and then they see how to use it in georgia

01:09:50.900 the osc monitors elections when it used to monitor elections in russia they would always be

01:09:58.820 very negative and on other countries as well belarus

01:10:02.500 uh kazakhstan this time in georgia the monitoring mission of osc presented a positive report

01:10:11.940 and it is being ignored so when when uh you need

01:10:18.900 uh endorsement of the procedures uh you do it when you like the results of the elect if you don't like

01:10:28.100 the results of elections you ignore it it's like when the united states and uh other western countries

01:10:37.060 recognized unilateral uh declaration of independence of kosovo they said this is the uh self-determination

01:10:51.460 being implemented when a few years later and there was no referendum in kosovo unilateral declaration of

01:11:00.580 independence uh by the way after that the serbs approached uh international court of justice

01:11:11.940 which ruled that uh well normally they are not very specific you know in the in the

01:11:20.180 judgment but they ruled that uh unilateral or rather when part of a territory declares independence

01:11:31.780 it is not necessarily to be agreed with the central authorities

01:11:38.580 and when few years later crimeans were holding referendum with invitation of many international observers

01:11:46.260 uh not from international organizations but from parliamentarians in europe uh in asia in

01:11:55.620 post-soviet space uh they said no we cannot accept this because this is violation of territorial

01:12:01.300 integrity right you are you know you pick and choose the un charter is not a menu you have to respect it in

01:12:10.100 in all its entirety so what who's paying the rebels who've taken parts of aleppo

01:12:17.220 is the assad government in danger of falling what is happening exactly in your view in syria

01:12:22.740 well we had a deal uh when this crisis started and we are organized the astana process

01:12:30.500 uh of russia turkey and iran uh we meet regularly and uh another meeting is being planned before the end of

01:12:43.140 the year or early next year uh to discuss the situation on the ground and uh the uh rules of the game

01:12:50.900 is to help syrians to come to terms with each other and uh to prevent uh separatist trends uh from from

01:13:04.020 you know getting strong that's what the americans are doing in the east of syria when they uh groom

01:13:11.540 some kurdish separatists uh using the uh profits uh from oil and uh grain uh salt which they the resources

01:13:27.380 which they occupy this astana format uh is a useful uh combination of players if you wish uh and uh

01:13:37.780 we are very much concerned after this happened uh with a lab point surroundings i had a conversation

01:13:45.860 with the turkish minister of foreign affairs and with iranian colleague uh we agreed to try to meet this

01:13:53.620 week did you see it coming hopefully in doha uh in the margins of this international conference

01:14:03.380 uh we would like to discuss the need uh to come back to strict implementation of the deals uh on idlib area

01:14:14.660 because idlib uh de-escalation zone was the place from where the uh terrorists moved to to take aleppo

01:14:24.740 uh and the arrangements reached in 2019 and 2020 uh provided for our turkish friends uh to control

01:14:36.740 the situation in the idlib de-escalation zone and to separate the hayat tahrir asham former nusra

01:14:46.100 from the opposition uh which is non-terrorist and which cooperates with turkey apparently it is not yet

01:14:53.620 it is not yet the and another deal was the opening of uh m5 uh route from damascus to aleppo which is

01:15:03.220 also now taken completely by the terrorists so we as ministers of foreign affairs would discuss the

01:15:09.140 situation hopefully this coming friday uh and uh the military of all three countries uh and the

01:15:17.540 security people are in contact with the chat but the islamist groups the terrorists you just described

01:15:22.820 who is backing them well uh we have some some uh information and we would like to discuss with

01:15:32.660 all our partners in this and this process the way uh to cut the channels of of uh financing and arming them

01:15:43.380 the information which is being floated and it's uh in the public in the public domain mentions uh the americans

01:15:57.220 the brits among others uh some people say that israel is interested in in uh you know making this uh

01:16:07.940 situation aggravate uh so that gaza is not under very close scrutiny uh it's a complicated game many many

01:16:19.220 actors are involved and uh i hope that the contacts which we are planning for this week

01:16:26.180 will help stabilize the situation what do you think of donald trump

01:16:29.620 i met him several times when he was having meetings with putin and when he received me twice i think

01:16:40.100 in the oval office when i was visiting for bilateral talks well i think he is a very strong person

01:16:50.980 uh a person um a person who wants results who doesn't like procrastination on on anything uh and uh

01:17:04.980 this is this is my impression he is very uh friendly in uh you know uh discussions and but this does not mean

01:17:16.340 that uh that uh that he is pro-russian as some some people try to present him the amount of sanctions we

01:17:25.460 received under the trump administration was very very very big uh and uh we respect any any uh choice which

01:17:38.180 is made by the people when they vote and respect the choice of american people

01:17:47.060 uh and we are open as putin said we are open to uh contacts with we have been open all all along

01:17:55.460 with the current administration uh and we hope that when uh biden uh when donald trump uh is inaugurated

01:18:06.900 we will understand what the ball as putin said is on this side we never severed our contacts our ties

01:18:14.340 uh in the economy trade on security on anything and my final question is how sincerely worried are you

01:18:25.620 about an escalation and conflict between russia and the united states knowing what you do well

01:18:31.060 we started with this question more or less we it seems the central question uh yes and uh the europeans

01:18:39.620 say that uh it's not the whisper whisper to each other that is it is not for zelensky to dictate the

01:18:47.780 terms of the deal it's for the us and russia uh i don't think we should be presenting our relations as

01:18:59.620 you know two guys decide for everybody not at all it is not it is not our style we prefer the manners

01:19:07.540 uh which dominate in brics in shanghai cooperation organization uh where the u.n charter principle of

01:19:16.420 sovereign equality of states is really embodied the u.s is not used to respect sovereign equality of

01:19:25.700 states uh the united states uh you know when they say we cannot allow russia to win on ukraine because

01:19:33.860 this would undermine our uh rules-based world order and the rules-based world order is american domination

01:19:44.100 now by the way nato at least under biden administration is eyeing uh the entire eurasian continent

01:19:52.900 uh indian pacific strategies uh south china sea east china sea is already on nato agenda

01:20:03.060 nato is moving infrastructure there aucus building quoted uh indo-pacific four they call it japan australia

01:20:14.260 new zealand south korea u.s south korea and japan are building military alliance with some

01:20:22.420 nuclear components so and uh stoltenberg the former secretary general of nato said uh

01:20:30.900 last year after the summit which uh he said your atlantic security is indivisible from indo-pacific

01:20:38.580 security when he was asked does it mean that you go beyond territorial defense no no it doesn't go

01:20:47.540 beyond territorial defense uh but to defend our territory we need to be present there this element

01:20:55.620 of preemption is more and more present but with the united states we don't want war with anybody

01:21:03.380 and as i said nuclear five nuclear states uh declared at this at the top level uh in january 2022 that we

01:21:18.020 don't want confrontation with each other and that we shall respect each other's security interests and

01:21:24.740 concerns and uh it also stated uh nuclear war is uh nuclear war can never be won and therefore nuclear war

01:21:35.300 is not possible and the same uh was reiterated bilaterally between russia and the united states

01:21:43.780 putin biden when they met in 21 uh in geneva in june basically they reproduced the statement by reagan

01:21:57.460 and gorbachev of 1987 i think no nuclear war and this is uh absolutely in our vital interest and they hope

01:22:07.620 that this is also in vital interest of the united states i say so because some time ago mr kirby who is

01:22:16.900 white house communications coordinator or whatever uh he was uh asking uh questions uh answering questions

01:22:27.780 and um about escalation and about possibility of uh nuclear weapons being employed

01:22:37.620 and he said uh oh no no we don't want escalation because then if there is some nuclear element then

01:22:47.380 our european allies would suffer so even mentally he excludes that the united states can suffer

01:22:58.740 and this is something which which makes the situation a bit risky it might if this mentality prevails

01:23:10.420 then some reckless steps could be taken and this is bad so what i think you're saying is american

01:23:17.300 policy makers imagine there could be a nuclear exchange that doesn't directly affect the united states and

01:23:22.500 you're saying that's not true that's that's what i said yes no but you know uh professionals uh in uh

01:23:35.460 deterrence uh nuclear deterrence policy they know very well that it's a very dangerous game and

01:23:42.740 to speak about a limited exchange of nuclear strikes uh is an invitation to disaster

01:23:50.420 which we don't want to have mr lavrov thank you very much thank you

01:23:58.820 thanks for listening to tucker carlson show if you enjoyed it you can go to tuckercarlson.com to see

01:24:03.700 everything that we have made the complete library tuckercarlson.com

01:24:16.420 you

The Tucker Carlson Show - December 05, 2024

Exclusive： Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov Describes the War With the US and How to End It

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