The Tucker Carlson Show - Former CIA officer Felix Rodriguez has led a fascinating life. He was involved in the Bay of Pigs Invasion and was one of the last men to speak to Che Guevara before his execution.

00:00:00.000 This is the last photograph of Cuban revolutionary Che Guevara alive. It was taken in Bolivia in 1967. It's a very famous photograph, probably familiar to most people watching this.

00:00:22.280 And this man standing right there is not familiar to most people watching this. He should be. He's about to be. His name is Felix Rodriguez. He's a longtime CIA officer in the operations directorate. And he joins us now to explain this picture and to tell us about his life. Mr. Rodriguez, thank you very much.

00:00:39.380 Pleasure to be here.

00:00:40.380 So it's a remarkable picture. The longer I look at it, the more I think that. Can you tell us where this was and what was happening?

00:00:48.160 Well, that was in Laigera, Bolivia. That's where he was captured. And I came in with the helicopter with the colonel in charge of the operation. And after a while, I got to talk to him.

00:01:00.800 And I even thought about taking the picture. But while I was talking to him, the pilot of the helicopter came with a camera from the head of intelligence who wanted a picture with Che.

00:01:08.600 So I asked him, Commander, do you mind? He said no. So we took him out of the schoolhouse and gave my camera to the pilot and he took that picture.

00:01:15.820 So you talked to Guevara, of course. What were the circumstances? He'd been captured by Bolivian soldiers? Is that right?

00:01:24.700 Yes. Yes. Actually, they thought that he had been killing Africa. But then when they captured Debray and Busto, who was a French intellectual and then a newspaper guy from Argentina, they confirmed that Che Guevara was there.

00:01:40.660 So as long as they understood that he was there, they sent a special forces unit from Panama to train a special battalion to operate against him because the Bolivians didn't have any experience.

00:01:52.000 And then they sent a couple of us from the CIA to provide them with intelligence. And the reason they sent us is because we were not U.S. citizens.

00:01:58.820 At the time, Vietnam was taking place and there were people coming back and plastic back from Vietnam. And they didn't want any American coming back and plastic back from Latin America. 0.55

00:02:08.580 At the time, we were not even residents. We were not citizens. So we didn't fall into the restriction of Ambassador Henderson. That's why we were able to go there.

00:02:18.120 So you were working for the CIA full time, obviously, carrying a weapon, obviously, but not a U.S. citizen.

00:02:23.160 Yes.

00:02:23.440 What was Che like that day?

00:02:28.420 When I first, you know, a lot of people ask me, you know, what I thought about Che. Che at the time was nobody.

00:02:33.740 Che became a figure after he was dead. Cuba made him a figure.

00:02:37.320 Yes.

00:02:37.920 After war, even though they were the one who sent him to be killed.

00:02:43.000 Fidel could not stand him there because Fidel depended on the Soviet Union and Che Guevara was pro-Chinese. 0.61

00:02:48.340 So when he was in Africa in 1965, 64, all the weapon he received was from Red China. 0.89

00:02:56.340 And then he didn't want to go back to Cuba. He went to hire in the Czech Republic.

00:03:00.940 And they had to send people to convince him to go back to Cuba and to give him an opportunity in another place.

00:03:05.460 But when he was sent to Bolivia, it was definitely in mind for him to be killed because the Soviets didn't want him to be any successful because they knew that Che was pro-Chinese.

00:03:15.220 And if he took a revolution in there, it would be toward the Chinese. 0.91

00:03:18.520 And at the time, the Chinese and the Soviets hated each other very much.

00:03:21.880 So when he was sent to Bolivia, his transmitter was not even working.

00:03:24.960 In December of 66, when they had a dinner with Mario Monge, the head of the Communist Party of Bolivia, who had been with Fidel two months before, completed a complete progress.

00:03:34.480 He told the Bolivian guerrillas that were with Che, if they stayed with Che, they were expelled from the Communist Party.

00:03:40.240 And then they had an officer in intelligence that they had sent to La Paz, Renan Montero, to help him.

00:03:47.260 And as soon as he was in with all 17 people, they took him out of the picture and told Che that they had to take him out because his visa had expired.

00:03:55.180 And actually, he was a Bolivian citizen by then.

00:03:57.840 So he was definitely sent there to be killed by Cuba because he could not succeed because it would be a revolution that would be pro-Chinese and Cuba dependent on the Soviet Union. 0.72

00:04:06.200 So he's, he's obviously, he's a prisoner in this picture.

00:04:12.380 Does he know when this was taken that he's about to die?

00:04:15.600 Not at that time. No.

00:04:18.200 So what happened in the moments after this picture?

00:04:21.960 Well, in the sequence, first of all, when we arrived with the helicopter on the following day, which is the 9th of October and Monday, we came to the room with the officers and he would not talk to anybody.

00:04:33.320 The coroner was trying to interrogate him. He looked at him. He didn't say any word.

00:04:37.180 To the point, the guy said, look, you invaded my country. At least you can have the courtesy of answering me. He didn't say a word.

00:04:43.560 So when we finished that, I came out. I asked for all his documentation to photograph it from my government.

00:04:48.960 And the coroner ordered his bag to be given to me.

00:04:51.760 He had some Chinese code books. He had some picture of his family, some medicament for his asthma inside.

00:04:57.660 And he had a diary. It's a German book. It was written in Spanish. That's his diary.

00:05:02.960 So I photographed all of that.

00:05:05.120 Then while I was there, there came a news, the telephone call at the getters.

00:05:10.060 And I was the highest-ranking officer.

00:05:12.160 So there was definitely the orders to execute him.

00:05:15.380 We had a very simple code. 0.96

00:05:17.260 500, 600 killed him. 700 killed him alive.

00:05:21.340 So he came 500, 600.

00:05:23.900 When Colonel Centeno came out, I told him.

00:05:25.920 I said, look, this order from your high Bolivian command to eliminate the prisoner.

00:05:29.620 The order from my government tried to keep him alive at all costs.

00:05:32.660 So we have helicopters to take him to Panama for interrogation.

00:05:36.780 So he looked at me and said, Felix, my name was Felix Ramos.

00:05:39.980 He said, you have been very helpful to us, but this is order from my president.

00:05:45.340 He looked at his watch and he said, the helicopter is going to come several times,

00:05:48.800 bringing food and ammunition, taking our wound and our dead.

00:05:52.100 But after 2 o'clock, he's going to come up and pick up Che Guevara's dead body.

00:05:56.480 You cannot use to see him any way you want because we know how much harm he has done to your country.

00:06:02.180 So I said to me, Colonel, try to make that change their mind.

00:06:04.600 But if it does not change his mind, I will view my word of honor. 0.52

00:06:07.260 I will bring you dead body of Che. 0.93

00:06:08.780 So we embraced and he left.

00:06:11.120 And sure enough, the helicopter came several times.

00:06:13.120 That's when the mayor came and asked for a picture with the prisoner.

00:06:16.900 Then I started waiting and see what happened.

00:06:18.800 And then there was a schoolteacher who came to me and said, why are you going to kill him?

00:06:24.940 I said, why do you say that?

00:06:25.980 I said, look, we saw that you took a picture of him outside.

00:06:29.180 And look, the radio is already giving the news.

00:06:31.140 So at that point, I knew there was nothing else to be done.

00:06:34.560 So I got into the room.

00:06:35.920 I stood in front of him and said, Commander, I'm sorry.

00:06:37.900 I tried my best.

00:06:39.400 He turned white like a piece of paper and he said, it's better this way. 0.99

00:06:43.100 I should have never been captured alive.

00:06:44.580 So you told Che Guevara he was about to be killed?

00:06:46.880 Yes.

00:06:48.060 In a way, the way I say, I'm sorry, I tried my best.

00:06:50.820 And he understood what I was saying.

00:06:52.840 Then he took his pipe out and said, I'd like to give this pipe to a soldadito who treated me well.

00:06:57.100 And at that time, Sergeant Tehran, who he knew was the one executing the live prisoner, burst into the room.

00:07:04.000 Yo quiero la pipa, mi capitán.

00:07:05.220 I want the pipe.

00:07:06.100 And Che say, no, I won't give it to you.

00:07:07.480 A ti no te la doy.

00:07:08.640 So I ordered him three times to leave the room.

00:07:10.880 What he did, I looked at Che, I said, would you give it to me?

00:07:13.660 He checked.

00:07:14.200 He said, si, a ti si te la doy.

00:07:15.540 I will give it to you.

00:07:16.360 So I put my pipe here.

00:07:17.500 I said, is anyone anything you want for your family?

00:07:20.300 Then I would say in a sarcastic way, he said, well, if you can't tell Fidel, he will soon see a triumphant revolution in America.

00:07:27.100 Then he changed the expression and said, if you can't tell my wife to remarry and try to be happy.

00:07:32.240 That was his last word.

00:07:33.320 He approached me.

00:07:34.360 We shook hands.

00:07:35.340 We embraced.

00:07:36.740 It was a very strange and unique moment in my life because we never ordered prisoners to be executed.

00:07:44.060 At the time, I even thought about cutting the telephone line and telling the pilot that my government was able to convince them to bring Che alive. 0.75

00:07:50.680 And I remember what happened when Batista released Fidel Castro and what happened to my country.

00:07:55.520 So I told myself, look, this is not your word.

00:07:57.820 You're here to advise, not to command.

00:07:59.660 This is the Bolivian decision.

00:08:01.400 So I let history run itself.

00:08:03.160 So I let it go the way it was.

00:08:04.820 And that was the end of it.

00:08:06.400 What happened to Che at that point?

00:08:08.600 Well, after we embraced, which was, like I say, a very strange moment for me because he was my enemy at the same time.

00:08:15.480 I feel sorry for him.

00:08:16.640 And he conducted himself with dignity at the end.

00:08:19.120 I left the room.

00:08:20.340 And there was Sergeant Teran.

00:08:21.380 I told him that no shoot from here down because he was supposed to die from combat.

00:08:27.180 See me, Capitan.

00:08:28.160 See me, Capitan.

00:08:28.880 And he left.

00:08:29.340 So it was one o'clock in the afternoon Bolivian time.

00:08:32.480 When I left there, about 1.15, I heard the burst.

00:08:35.500 And that's the time that we was killed, executed. 0.90

00:08:38.920 You just shot him in the room.

00:08:40.500 He was shot by M2 carabine that was borrowed by this sergeant from Lieutenant Perez who had an automatic carabine.

00:08:47.580 I understand because I wasn't present.

00:08:50.040 He came in and said, Che Guevara, I'd like to talk to you. 0.82

00:08:52.660 And he told him, he said, look, I know you're coming to kill me. 0.85

00:08:55.260 He said, no, no, we're not going to kill you. 1.00

00:08:56.920 You're worse to us, our life than dead. 1.00

00:08:58.980 And then he told him, I want you to know you're going to kill a man. 0.98

00:09:02.840 So he opened fire, she went like this, or it's a bullet that hit here, which is normal reaction to try to cover yourself.

00:09:09.840 So he was shot and killed.

00:09:11.420 I came back a few hours later with two of the captains from the operation, Captain Gary Prado and Celso Torrelli.

00:09:18.960 And we got into the room.

00:09:19.980 His head was facing the ceiling.

00:09:23.140 It was covered with mud.

00:09:25.300 So there was a dead body of two Cubans behind him that had been killed in operation.

00:09:29.980 One was Captain Pantoja, another captain from the Cuban Army who died in combat.

00:09:34.040 So we embraced him there, and Gary Prado said, me, Capitan, we have finished in the guerrillas in Latin America.

00:09:40.940 And I told him, me, Capitan, we haven't finished it.

00:09:43.420 At least we have delayed them for a long time.

00:09:45.680 So we could hear the helicopter coming, and they immediately left.

00:09:49.200 So I asked for a bucket of water.

00:09:50.640 I cleaned his face.

00:09:51.520 I took all the mud out of his face.

00:09:53.140 I tried to close his jaw with my handkerchief, which I lost in the helicopter with the wind.

00:09:58.020 And then I tried to close his eyes, and it was impossible.

00:10:00.760 They had been open too long.

00:10:02.320 And so I tried to close it, and it popped up again several times.

00:10:04.800 So I gave up on it.

00:10:06.280 So we took the body, and we tied it at the right side of the helicopter.

00:10:10.220 And what we're finishing to do, that I remember-

00:10:12.200 You tied it to the struts of the helicopter?

00:10:14.100 To the right pontoon of the helicopter, the right side.

00:10:18.180 And I remember the pilot, and I had my name, it was Manton, and the Capitan moved forward to balance the helicopter.

00:10:24.020 So I put my hand under him and pulled it out.

00:10:26.380 And when he brought it out, it was completely covered with blood.

00:10:28.740 Apparently, it was shot in the aorta, and since these plastic things didn't allow any water to go through, there was a big pool of blood in there.

00:10:37.740 I looked at it.

00:10:39.080 I didn't say anything, but I thought to myself, there are people who have blood in their hands.

00:10:42.540 I have a hell of a lot of here.

00:10:43.800 So I cleaned the blood in the right side of my pants, I came in, and then a soldier came and said, Mayor, Mayor, Father Schillers went to see him.

00:10:52.600 So we stood with the helicopter running for maybe a couple of minutes, and there was a priest who came on a mule.

00:10:58.680 He came around, he got down on the mule, and he gave him the last benediction, which I took a picture of it with a Minox camera that I had left.

00:11:06.960 And I thought to myself, this guy was an atheist, he didn't believe in God, never did he receive the wrath of the ritual from the Catholic Church. 0.56

00:11:15.480 And from there, we took off, and then we landed in Valle Grande.

00:11:18.260 There were thousands of people waiting at the runway.

00:11:20.640 There was like 15 different planes from the press, from the military, waiting for him to arrive.

00:11:27.760 So I put my cap and run into the people, so my picture was never taken.

00:11:31.240 And then he was taken into a schoolhouse, excuse me, into a hospital, Nuestro Señor de Malta.

00:11:38.320 Then in the evening, there was a meeting, and the general was telling a colonel, if Fidel denies this is Che Guevara, we need tangible proof of it.

00:11:47.760 Cut his head and put him from Malachi. 1.00

00:11:49.960 So I said, my general, you cannot do that. 0.78

00:11:51.580 They said, why not?

00:11:52.500 I said, supposedly Fidel denied this is Che Guevara.

00:11:54.880 You are a head of a state.

00:11:56.380 You cannot show the head of a human being a proof.

00:11:58.560 He said, well, what do you suggest?

00:11:59.900 I said, well, if you want some tangible proof of it, cut one finger, and we have the fingerprint from the Argentinian Federal Police, and it can be checked.

00:12:09.280 So he ordered both hands to be cut.

00:12:11.940 So I left with all the documentation for Santa Cruz, and my other friend stayed in there, and then about 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning, when the press was gone, they took his body, they cut both hands, and put him from Malachi, and two other bodies, and they took it to the very end of the runway, and they buried him in there with two bodies.

00:12:28.420 There was a bulldozer there who was making longer the runway, and he was buried right there.

00:12:35.160 Now, later on, years later, when Fidel said he found the body on the side of the runway with seven other bodies, I can assure you that was not Che Guevara, because he wasn't buried there.

00:12:45.200 Amazing. And so what did you do? It was 1967. It was back up really quickly. You were born in Cuba.

00:12:53.540 Right.

00:12:53.780 How did, when did you come to the United States?

00:12:56.580 Well, I came in 1954 for school. I came to Perky Home and Prep in Penswood, Pennsylvania. I spent six years in there, seventh and eighth grade in my high school, and I actually went off my last year to go to the first scene that was against Castro, was the Anti-Communist Legion of the Caribbean in the Dominican Republic.

00:13:13.800 So I participated in that operation when I was 17, 18 years old, and I came back. And then after graduation, I was accepted at the University of Miami for civil engineering.

00:13:24.220 But before I went there, I learned there was something going on in Latin America. Against Castro, I joined what later became the Bay of Pig Invasion. I was 19 years old at the time.

00:13:33.300 What was your role in the Bay of Pigs Invasion?

00:13:36.540 I was part of what they call the Special Forces or infiltration thing. So I was a group of about 36 people. We got into Cuba a month and a half before the invasion to work with the resistance.

00:13:47.920 I came in clandestinely by boat. I started working inside the island, helping them with all kinds of equipment and trying to do an uprising in another area.

00:13:58.120 But then actually the Bay of Pig surprised us, because they never told us anything. If they had been able to tell us that the invasion was coming, we had enough explosive to be able maybe to blow some bridges toward the Bay of Pig and delay the advancement of Castro's troops.

00:14:13.200 But they never told anything. We learned through the Cuban radio. So at that time, I was lucky. I was able to make it through the Venezuelan embassy, where I spent five and a half months.

00:14:23.200 In Havana?

00:14:23.740 In Havana. Then finally got safe conduct. Went back to Venezuela at the end of September.

00:14:29.860 How did you get from the Bay of Pigs to Havana? That's a long way, isn't it?

00:14:33.400 No, I wasn't in the Bay of Pigs. I landed near Havana a month and a half before the Bay of Pigs and worked with the resistance.

00:14:39.540 We had a mechanism of the internal resistance to pick us up near the highway and then take off to safe houses in Havana.

00:14:46.560 Then we started working with them in there during that time. So I wasn't at the Bay of Pigs at the time.

00:14:51.240 And I was lucky because I didn't have any idea of any embassy in there, but the lady who was driving me around was close, connected to the Spanish embassy.

00:14:59.920 And the Spaniard, Alejandro Vergara, who was in charge of, they called propaganda, actually was intelligence, came to pick her up because they were surrounding our building.

00:15:09.680 Fidel very successfully, what he did, he surrounded every single block in Havana.

00:15:15.140 And if you were a male or military Asian, you were not assigned to a military unit, even though you might have been even a communist, they would take you and put in custody.

00:15:23.800 There were baseball field with 250,000 Cubans in there. Theater, the capacity for 5,000 people, 5,500.

00:15:32.220 So they were able to disarticulate internal resistance that way. Even they picked up some of my friends that went in and then they released them because they had no idea who they were.

00:15:41.140 But I was lucky to make it to the Venezuelan embassy and then back into Miami.

00:15:46.500 Actually, I got to Miami on the very first of October of 1961. And then by the end of October, I was back inside Cuba, went back seven times because I was the only one who left the contact open after the failure of the Bay of Peaks to bring people and equipment in and for intelligence purpose.

00:16:05.980 What kind of equipment were you bringing in?

00:16:08.200 Oh, we were bringing explosives. We were bringing in M3 machine guns, all kind of hand grenades and all of those things that they were still bringing in to be able to support a future resistance.

00:16:19.860 But then it didn't work out. Then I decided, actually, in 1962, I decided to marry my present wife of 62 years.

00:16:27.240 I told her, I said, look, Rosa, I'm going to quit. I'm going to go into civilian life, but I want you to know if there is something serious about Cuba, I will go.

00:16:35.760 So she made the mistake of agreeing to that because we got married on the 25th of August.

00:16:41.420 I started working at a company for $1 an hour called Isolator Service Propaganda.

00:16:47.140 Then I was improving tubing packaging company $1.35 an hour.

00:16:52.200 So while I was working there, and remember, I got married 25th of August.

00:16:55.820 In the month of October, I got a call from a CIA guy and said, look, I need to talk to you after you work at that company.

00:17:01.860 So I went to see him at the parking lot of the Howard and Johnson across from the University of Miami.

00:17:07.440 I sit in his car and I said, Felix, the Marines are going to land in Cuba and we need you.

00:17:12.200 I look at him and say, Tom, if the Marines are going to land in Cuba, what the hell do you need me for?

00:17:16.560 Good point.

00:17:17.520 He said, well, you know how to operate a radio beacon.

00:17:20.020 We like you to parachute behind a Soviet missile base in Santa Clara to set up a radio beacon so that our Air Force can hit with precision the airbase. 0.85

00:17:27.940 At the time, we didn't have the GPS system that we have today.

00:17:31.460 So at that time, I agreed.

00:17:32.620 So they took me to a safe house and my basic training was romping from different altitudes and the three point of contact so I didn't break a leg.

00:17:41.040 I couldn't even call my wife.

00:17:42.720 My wife went back to the apartment and, of course, that night when Kennedy went on national television and declared the October crisis.

00:17:50.920 So she realized it was something related to that.

00:17:53.720 So the day we were going to parachute into Cuba, the day the Khrushchev backed down on the operation.

00:17:59.500 And then, you know, after that, I was at a job, so then I continued to work with the CIA.

00:18:04.440 For how long?

00:18:06.180 Oh, until 1976 when they retired me for security consideration.

00:18:10.280 After Colonel Centeno Naya, who was his advisor, was assassinated in Paris.

00:18:15.720 He was the Bolivian ambassador there and he was killed and they left a sign saying the Che Guevara commando.

00:18:21.540 Then they also assassinated Major Quintanilla, who was the colonel then, Roberto Quintanilla in Hamburg, Germany, who was the consul general from Bolivia there, also left a sign saying Comando Che Guevara.

00:18:33.460 And they called my home and say Felix Ramos, you're next.

00:18:36.260 That's the name that I used in Bolivia.

00:18:37.800 That never came out.

00:18:38.640 So the agency proposed me one of those programs to change my name and go to another state, which I would not accept because of my kids.

00:18:46.620 So what they did, they went to my home, they did a security evaluation.

00:18:50.300 They actually gave me a bulletproof car.

00:18:54.080 They bulletproofed my car in Langley, Virginia.

00:18:56.440 I got a license to carry a concealed weapon that was difficult to get at the time.

00:19:01.420 And they gave me a total disability.

00:19:03.140 I didn't have to work, have a routine of work.

00:19:06.320 And put some iron fences in my house, some security.

00:19:09.460 And then I signed a paper for them.

00:19:11.440 If I got killed related to my job, my family could not, you know, they could not sue them in any way or form because what they offer me that they consider I refused to.

00:19:20.260 But then after that, I continued independently to do some things like I went into El Salvador, flying with El Salvadorian guerrillas as a volunteer with a concept that I developed in Vietnam where I spent two and a half years in Vietnam after Bolivia.

00:19:35.900 And it was very effective in El Salvador when I was there.

00:19:39.460 What were you doing in Vietnam as a CIA officer?

00:19:42.380 Well, my responsibility was to stop the rocketing of Saigon and the rocketing of the boat coming into Saigon.

00:19:47.780 We were advising a unit called the PRU, Provincial Reconnaissance Unit.

00:19:52.800 It's a CIA unit who was managed, paid, and controlled by the CIA.

00:19:57.360 And it was almost impossible to stop the rocketing of Saigon.

00:20:00.500 And it did it for psychological reasons.

00:20:03.020 Every week there would be one or two, one 22-point Soviet missiles going into the city at random.

00:20:10.060 Normally they try to hit the presidential palace and the U.S. embassy, which they never did.

00:20:14.340 But it was a psychological thing.

00:20:15.640 And we started looking in an area.

00:20:17.760 It was impossible to locate these people until I was able to capture one who was the bodyguard of Tutank, the commander of that unit.

00:20:25.060 And he told me that they were hiding in an area that we never thought of because there was the tide of the water would come up like 17 feet.

00:20:31.500 And what they did, he told me, they had 55-lbs on drums.

00:20:34.620 They soldered one on top of the other until they were sleeping there when the water went up.

00:20:38.580 When the water went down, they run across the river.

00:20:40.640 They fired the rocket into the area, and then they came back and hired again.

00:20:44.860 Then I started looking at that area, which we never did before.

00:20:48.320 And actually on the 4th of December of 1970, I was able to establish contact with the commander of the unit.

00:20:55.360 We killed 18 of them.

00:20:57.100 We lost three of our PRU.

00:20:58.500 And from there on, we continued the pressure, and there was not a single rocket firing to Saigon after that.

00:21:04.320 And for that, I got equal to the Congressional Medal of Honor from the Vietnamese Armed Forces called the Cross of Gallantry with Gold Star.

00:21:13.080 I got one of that, two silver stars and six bronze stars during the time that I was with them.

00:21:18.920 And then I got the intelligence star for valor from the CIA because of the operation in Vietnam.

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00:21:59.520 That's Tucker, F-O-R, Hillsdale.com.

00:22:04.580 Tucker says it best.

00:22:06.500 The credit card companies are ripping Americans off, and enough is enough.

00:22:11.140 This is Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas.

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00:22:25.700 and they've been raising it without even telling you.

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00:22:42.880 double candidates, and eight times more than Europe's.

00:22:45.900 That's why I've taken action, but I need your help to help get this passed.

00:22:50.300 I'm asking you to call your senator today and demand they pass the Credit Card Competition Act.

00:22:57.340 Paid for by the Merchants Payments Coalition.

00:22:58.960 Not authorized by any candidate or candidates committee.

00:23:01.240 www.merchantspaymentscoalition.com.

00:23:07.220 I'm sure you've been asked this a thousand times, but since you worked there, you worked for President Kennedy.

00:23:13.940 Yes.

00:23:14.520 And he was, of course, killed in November of 1963, and countless books have been written blaming Cuban exiles,

00:23:22.500 people who participated in the Bay of Pigs, for being involved in some way with the CIA in that assassination.

00:23:28.260 What's your assessment of that claim?

00:23:29.900 Well, I'll tell you.

00:23:30.900 Most of the brigade members believe President Kennedy was a traitor.

00:23:34.020 He was the one who definitely had the responsibility, and he was responsible for our failure.

00:23:41.040 Looking from another point, I believe that he was a young president, ill-advised, and we paid the price.

00:23:47.900 And I believe that actually he was killed because he tried to amend that.

00:23:50.980 After he was able to pull the brigade out of prison, he opened the armed forces of the United States for the brigade members.

00:23:57.740 I became a second lieutenant in the U.S. Army in 1963.

00:24:01.940 And then he promised us a special operation, which was started in Central America in three different bases,

00:24:07.180 and not many people know about it.

00:24:09.800 But then he was assassinated.

00:24:11.180 And a lot of people believe that it was only one shooter.

00:24:14.920 I believe there were two shooters.

00:24:16.780 We have information that there was a Cuban, which is now a retired general, Fabian Escalante,

00:24:21.840 who was a captain at the time, who was in Dallas.

00:24:24.140 And he was the second shooter in the assassination of the president.

00:24:26.960 Will you just, okay, I'm sorry, will you say that one more time?

00:24:30.000 What's his name?

00:24:31.500 Fabian Escalante.

00:24:32.720 Escalante.

00:24:33.460 Fabian Escalante.

00:24:33.920 And he was in Dallas that day, and then he left.

00:24:36.960 It was something that, and Castro said that he knew that Cuba, the United States was trying to kill him.

00:24:45.080 But be very careful because the Cuban also had a very long hand. 1.00

00:24:48.800 So it was a matter either Kennedy or Castro.

00:24:52.480 I think that that's how he was killed.

00:24:56.040 So you believe that Kennedy was assassinated by Cuban forces, Castro.

00:25:00.340 For a great extent, yes.

00:25:01.700 Remember that Oswald was in the Cuban embassy for several hours before he went to Dallas that day.

00:25:08.220 And we also had the fact that there was no question about it that Fabian Escalante was there.

00:25:13.320 And then Cuba denied at the beginning that he was ever in the Cuban embassy.

00:25:16.640 Later on, when they learned that we, as CIA, we had pictures, a movie of him getting into our embassy,

00:25:21.900 then they said that they went into a very distinct check, and they found out that indeed, yes,

00:25:27.420 Oswald was in the Cuban embassy, and they claimed that he came in there to get a Cuban visa, and he was denied.

00:25:34.480 But I do believe that it was the participation of Cuba in the assassination of the president.

00:25:38.320 And later on, one assistant of President Johnson said that they knew about it,

00:25:43.020 but for security consideration, they denied to the public the participation of Cuba in the assassination of the president.

00:25:49.780 Because remember, at that time, there were already four offensive missiles inside Cuba.

00:25:54.620 When the October crisis took place, they were already have been able to bring into Cuba four offensive nuclear missiles. 0.55

00:26:01.240 That's why when Khrushchev thought, and he knew that the U.S. knew that we had four offensive,

00:26:04.880 they had four offensive missiles inside the island, he could bring 20 of them.

00:26:09.060 That's when the October crisis took place.

00:26:10.640 But there were still four missiles inside Cuba that were offensive.

00:26:15.080 So at the time, everybody said, well, they cannot attack Cuba because the Kennedy-Khrushchev treaty,

00:26:20.460 it was never implemented.

00:26:22.180 Because the important part of that treaty was that there would be a personal ocular inspection

00:26:26.860 by American personnel in Cuba to make sure that they had taken out those four missiles.

00:26:31.500 And Cuba never allowed them to be able to come in to check for that.

00:26:34.840 So that compromise was never, the Kennedy-Khrushchev was never implemented at all.

00:26:40.640 Do you believe the CIA had any role in Kennedy's assassination?

00:26:44.280 No, I don't think so.

00:26:45.940 I don't believe so.

00:26:46.840 I know there's a lot of allegations to that effect, but I don't think so.

00:26:50.000 I don't believe so at all.

00:26:51.200 I am convinced.

00:26:51.820 Did you ever come across Howard Hunt during your-

00:26:54.320 Yes, I met him after he came out of prison.

00:26:58.680 Actually, he was coming for Christmas out of prison.

00:27:02.020 And I have met his daughter, which our team is home, Kevin.

00:27:05.940 And we run to each other into Sears.

00:27:08.720 So I invited him to come to my home.

00:27:10.640 You ran into him in Sears?

00:27:11.920 Yeah, in Miami.

00:27:13.380 And I invited him to come to my home.

00:27:15.180 While I'm sitting there, I get a call from the chief of station from Miami.

00:27:17.920 I say, Felix, by the way, Howard Hunt will be in town.

00:27:21.440 Make sure that you don't meet him.

00:27:22.760 And the guy was sitting right in front of me.

00:27:24.460 I already had given him my car to use for the three days he was in Miami.

00:27:28.340 So later on, I called my boss.

00:27:29.740 I said, you should have called me sooner.

00:27:32.780 I said, what?

00:27:33.520 He said, well, I had Howard Hunt in front of my house.

00:27:36.180 No, I said, yes.

00:27:37.800 You didn't tell me.

00:27:38.780 And I run him to Sears.

00:27:40.040 I brought him to my home.

00:27:41.220 It's the first time I ever met him.

00:27:43.000 Amazing.

00:27:44.140 Why did the CIA not want you to see Howard Hunt?

00:27:46.960 Because they don't want to see, make the, they believe there is a connection between the

00:27:50.180 CIA and then, even though Howard Hunt was working for the CIA, but he was head of the

00:27:54.300 task force for the White House with Nixon.

00:27:56.400 So there was a connection there.

00:27:58.500 Yes, there was.

00:28:00.760 Interesting.

00:28:01.160 How did you get involved in the Iran-Contra story?

00:28:05.180 Well, when I was in Miami, I thought, I thought the war was going on in El Salvador.

00:28:11.300 I had implemented a helicopter concept in Vietnam that was extremely effective against

00:28:15.600 the Viet Cong in there, of with intelligence going to the area with gunships and then spotting

00:28:21.860 then, I was flying on the low helicopter, spotting them, then coming back with troops

00:28:26.440 and get the, the, the result.

00:28:28.640 So I volunteered to go to El Salvador in 85, early 85.

00:28:32.600 That's why I went to El Salvador then as a volunteer.

00:28:35.160 Nobody was paying me anything.

00:28:36.760 Who did you volunteer to?

00:28:38.380 Hmm?

00:28:38.880 Who, who did you?

00:28:40.340 We did El Salvador in Air Force.

00:28:41.820 Yes.

00:28:42.420 But it wasn't easy.

00:28:43.200 It was very difficult because you have the U.S. military commander, General Gorman,

00:28:47.960 four-star general who command all the military assistance to the area.

00:28:50.960 And here is a Cuban retired from the CIA trying to implement a military concept in his area.

00:28:56.700 But I was lucky that the, the, the Vice President of the United States had done Greg,

00:29:00.720 who was my boss from Vietnam, as his national security advisor.

00:29:04.200 And he knew how effective my concept was.

00:29:06.440 So he helped me, uh, to be able to get the clearance from the State Department and other

00:29:10.080 people for me to go down there.

00:29:12.020 So I started working with the, with the concept down in El Salvador, who was extremely,

00:29:15.800 uh, uh, successful.

00:29:17.500 At one point in time, Oliver North had a problem with a plane, uh, that was stuck in, in, in,

00:29:24.740 in Portugal that he could not bring in because of, of Honduran closed the entrance, uh, of 0.88

00:29:29.780 his plane there because of an incident they had with the plane with the resistance.

00:29:33.320 And he knew that I had an excellent relationship with the Salvadorians.

00:29:36.820 So he sent notes to me that if I could get the Salvadorians to hold all of this military

00:29:42.660 equipment from, uh, Portugal until he was able to solve the problem with Honduras.

00:29:46.560 So I talked to the, uh, to the head of the Air Force, he sent me to the Minister of Defense,

00:29:50.740 and they agreed.

00:29:51.400 And that's how I got involved in the, in the Iran-Contra thing.

00:29:54.440 Uh, they brought the plane.

00:29:55.440 It was storage in there for, uh, for a while.

00:29:57.440 And when they saw that, they asked me if I could ask the Salvadorians if they could do 0.99

00:30:00.980 the maintenance of the aircraft from the Nicaraguan resistance operation in El Salvador.

00:30:05.680 And that was how we got started, uh, in that operation in there.

00:30:09.320 But really, uh, the Vice President had very little to do in this operation.

00:30:13.360 Of course, when the Iran-Contra broke, they blamed that the, the, the, actually they came

00:30:18.200 out to say that I was sent to El Salvador to violate the Bolan Amendment to support the

00:30:24.140 Nicaraguan resistance, and my helicopter concept, concept was a, uh, a cover-up, which wasn't

00:30:29.420 true.

00:30:30.420 That wasn't the case at all.

00:30:32.140 And then they, they subpoenaed me to testify in front of Congress.

00:30:35.360 And I was the only one who went to Congress without a lawyer and without immunity.

00:30:40.760 Everybody else went with lawyer and immunity.

00:30:42.260 And they tried.

00:30:43.260 Even the White House called me and said, uh, Boydon Gray from the White House, uh, they wanted

00:30:46.960 me to bring a lawyer that the White House was going to pay for it.

00:30:49.360 I said, look, uh, I have done nothing wrong.

00:30:52.280 If I have to bring a lawyer for what I did, I am in the wrong country.

00:30:55.780 I don't believe I am in the wrong country.

00:30:58.160 So they told me, no, you don't understand, you know, you don't know how these congressmen

00:31:01.200 are.

00:31:02.200 They might have asked you to, uh, push you into saying something that might hurt the Vice

00:31:05.720 President.

00:31:06.720 And I refused.

00:31:07.720 So I was the only one who went without a lawyer and without immunity.

00:31:11.620 And uh, he came out fine.

00:31:12.980 And the only guy that I really don't like at all, because after that he's, he, he, he, he,

00:31:16.960 he asked me to testify in his committee was John Kerry.

00:31:19.360 Why didn't you like John Kerry?

00:31:21.360 He's a funny, uh, he was no war hero.

00:31:26.160 To be honest with you.

00:31:27.160 I, I, I was invited when, when he run for president, the Vietnam veteran for the truth, make a big

00:31:32.280 rally in the West wing of the Capitol.

00:31:34.360 And at that time they asked me to be one of the speaker against him because what he did

00:31:39.240 to me, you know, he accused me of receiving $10 million for the million cartel for the contract,

00:31:43.800 which wasn't true.

00:31:45.300 You know, I was, it was a pain.

00:31:47.360 It was very hard for my family because I was flying in El Salvador and my, and my wife

00:31:51.420 called me and said, look, it's front page in the Miami Herald, your picture when you

00:31:55.000 were in the army that you received $10 million from the Canadian cartel.

00:31:58.700 I said, you know, that's not true.

00:32:00.200 She said, I know, but here is a subpoena from Senator Kerry's committee.

00:32:04.160 So I called from El Salvador Senator Kerry's and I asked them, I said, look, uh, you don't

00:32:08.400 need a subpoena with me, but send the ticket in Easter because they aren't doing mileage,

00:32:12.000 which they did.

00:32:14.000 So I flew to Washington.

00:32:15.000 We had spent four hours in a deposition with him.

00:32:17.900 He was represented by, by, by a man that was a, uh, uh, Mitch McConnell was the minority.

00:32:26.740 So there was Robinette representing Mitch McConnell and another guy who represented him.

00:32:31.860 After we finished the testimony, they wanted a closed hearing.

00:32:34.820 We wanted an open hearing.

00:32:35.880 There was nothing classified about it.

00:32:37.500 I had retired in 76.

00:32:38.500 We are talking something that happened in 1985, but the Kerry didn't want the truth to come

00:32:43.500 out.

00:32:44.500 So he refused to have an open hearing.

00:32:46.500 We have to go into a closed hearing.

00:32:47.500 When I had the opportunity at the time, when I first came in, they asked me if I wanted

00:32:51.500 to say something.

00:32:52.500 There was all the Senator and, uh, and they asked me, I said, you want to say something?

00:32:56.500 I said, yes.

00:32:57.500 I look at him and say, Senator, this would be the hardest testimony of my life.

00:33:00.500 So why do you say that Mr. Rodriguez?

00:33:02.500 I said, Senator, it's very hard to have to ask a question for somebody that you do not

00:33:06.500 respect.

00:33:07.500 I don't respect you what you are doing here.

00:33:09.500 I said, Mr. Rodriguez, because we disagree with you.

00:33:11.500 We are no less patriotic than you are.

00:33:13.500 I, Senator, you didn't even have the guts to throw your own medal when you were protesting

00:33:17.500 the Vietnam War.

00:33:18.500 Don't believe everything you see in the press.

00:33:20.500 I know that the hell of a lot of better than you do, Senator.

00:33:23.500 He said, that was a veteran who asked me to throw his medal. 1.00

00:33:25.500 I said, bullshit. 0.99

00:33:26.500 It was everybody's perception. 1.00

00:33:27.500 It was your medal.

00:33:28.500 You were throwing over the White House fans.

00:33:29.500 So really didn't hit very well during that.

00:33:32.500 No.

00:33:33.500 At all.

00:33:34.500 And then I talked to a lot of people who were with him.

00:33:37.500 Do you know that he was never, ever wounded in combat?

00:33:40.500 He doesn't have one bullet hole in his body.

00:33:42.500 And he claimed three purple hearts to be able to leave Vietnam.

00:33:47.500 He knew that there was an unwritten law that if you get wounded three times in one tour,

00:33:52.500 you could request to leave Vietnam.

00:33:54.500 Yes.

00:33:55.500 And that's exactly what he did.

00:33:56.500 What he did, he scratched himself.

00:33:58.500 He claimed it was from a, from a hand grenade.

00:34:00.500 He never got a bullet hole.

00:34:01.500 He got scratches.

00:34:02.500 He always claimed that he had been wounded at that time, get a, get a, a purple heart.

00:34:07.500 The third one, it was denied.

00:34:08.500 The guy didn't say it was, it was worth it.

00:34:11.500 He had to wait until they changed that guy to be able to convince the other guy to give

00:34:15.500 him his third purple heart.

00:34:17.500 And that's why he left Vietnam.

00:34:18.500 And then he went with Jane Fonda, talking about the, our people in there.

00:34:23.500 Uh, it was a shame because today I see how our people treat the military with respect in

00:34:28.500 the plane.

00:34:29.500 At the time when I came back, they would not even wear their uniform because they were called

00:34:33.500 war criminals and all of that because of John Kerry and Jane Fonda.

00:34:38.500 Howard.

00:34:39.500 Howard.

00:34:40.500 So how, what was the resolution of Iran Contra?

00:34:44.500 You testified.

00:34:45.500 Well, at the, at the end really, uh, actually when you look at it, uh, it was, they, they

00:34:52.500 didn't have a case at all.

00:34:54.500 Because the only reason they brought the Iran Contra hearing was because the violation of

00:34:59.500 the Bolan Amendment of using US money to support the Nicaraguan resistance.

00:35:03.500 So what happened is when General Secor did some transaction, uh, with, uh, Iran, remember,

00:35:10.500 uh, with Israel, uh, he got the millions of dollars from that transaction.

00:35:14.500 The Congress determined that that money that he had belonged to the US government, not

00:35:19.500 to Secor.

00:35:20.500 It's still in court today.

00:35:21.500 It's still in court today.

00:35:22.500 It's over $8 million.

00:35:24.500 And he used a million and a half to help the Nicaraguan resistance with that money.

00:35:28.500 So because of that, since the Congress determined that that was money that belonged to the US

00:35:32.500 government, they violated the Bolan Amendment.

00:35:34.500 That's how he came together, uh, and put up the, uh, the Iran Contra hearings and committees

00:35:39.500 and all of that that I went through.

00:35:41.500 And let me tell you, it wasn't, it was, uh, it wasn't easy because, um, after so many

00:35:47.500 questions, I, I was tired.

00:35:48.500 Um, before that, my son and my daughter went to see, I had an FBI agent that always, I'd be

00:35:55.500 in contact with them for my security.

00:35:57.500 I learned recently, he already died from his widow, that my son and my daughter went to

00:36:01.500 see him before I testified in Congress.

00:36:03.500 And they told him, look, Carlos, uh, everybody's telling us if my father doesn't bring a lawyer,

00:36:08.500 he will go to prison.

00:36:09.500 Please convince him, uh, to bring a lawyer with him.

00:36:13.500 So he did, he didn't tell me that he came to see me and say, uh, look, Felix, you're

00:36:17.500 going to testify in Congress and you're going to be on the roads.

00:36:20.500 You cannot lie.

00:36:22.500 No matter what happens, you cannot lie.

00:36:24.500 Because if you do, uh, they would ask the same question in 15 different ways and they

00:36:28.500 would, they would know.

00:36:29.500 Now, if there is something that you are not very happy with it or you are not very content

00:36:33.500 with it, you don't remember.

00:36:35.500 If you don't remember, they cannot do anything.

00:36:37.500 But don't lie.

00:36:38.500 And I never lie.

00:36:39.500 So I came out fine.

00:36:41.500 The Greeks invented democracy.

00:36:47.500 So if you like democracy, you're Greek. 0.95

00:36:50.500 If you've ever voted for a candidate, voted someone off an island, left work early to go

00:36:55.500 to the polls, or lied about going to the polls so you could leave work early, that's good

00:36:59.500 enough.

00:37:00.500 You're Greek.

00:37:01.500 So eat like it.

00:37:02.500 That means ordering delicious and fresh chicken souvlaki with tzatziki from Jimmy the Greek.

00:37:07.500 You deserve it, you pillar of democracy, you.

00:37:10.500 You're Greek.

00:37:11.500 Eat like it with Jimmy the Greek. 0.98

00:37:14.500 Hashtag Gimme Jimmy.

00:37:15.500 Have you ever wondered how you live so long, having been through all these conflicts?

00:37:23.500 I believe, honestly, I believe in God.

00:37:28.500 For example, when I was in Vietnam, my boss, Ted Shockley, who was a legend with the CIA,

00:37:32.500 used to tell people that I had a death wish, that I wanted to get killed, which was not

00:37:36.500 at all.

00:37:37.500 I was so convinced, Tucker, that no bullet was going to hit me.

00:37:42.500 God gave me that conviction. 1.00

00:37:43.500 So I could sit in the helicopter, sit there, shoot it, and come out and shoot at them, 1.00

00:37:46.500 because I knew it wasn't going to touch me. 0.99

00:37:48.500 And I never did.

00:37:49.500 So it wasn't no bravery.

00:37:50.500 It was my conviction that I knew it wasn't going to hit me.

00:37:53.500 And you were a married man at that point.

00:37:55.500 Yes.

00:37:56.500 I had two kids already.

00:37:57.500 And you were never worried about getting killed?

00:38:00.500 I knew I wasn't going to get killed.

00:38:02.500 Not even wounded.

00:38:03.500 I didn't.

00:38:04.500 I had people wounded next to me.

00:38:06.500 My helicopter took 30 different locations to fire, took hits in the helicopter body.

00:38:11.500 But I was shot down five times.

00:38:12.500 Vietnam, one in El Salvador.

00:38:14.500 You were shot down five times?

00:38:15.500 Yeah.

00:38:16.500 But, you know, my back is in bad shape, but I'm still alive.

00:38:22.500 And I believe it was God who definitely was his hand on me.

00:38:26.500 That's why I didn't worry about it.

00:38:27.500 Not that I was brave.

00:38:28.500 I was convinced nothing was going to happen to me.

00:38:30.500 But you were right, it turned out.

00:38:32.500 Oh, yeah.

00:38:33.500 Absolutely.

00:38:34.500 What was Ted Shackley like?

00:38:35.500 Oh, he was the most intelligent man that I have ever met in my life.

00:38:41.500 He was the one responsible for the Berlin Tunnel.

00:38:44.500 Yeah.

00:38:45.500 He was in a station in Miami.

00:38:46.500 And we became close friends until the day he died.

00:38:50.500 And we were close.

00:38:51.500 We used to meet.

00:38:52.500 He was the head of a station in Saigon.

00:38:55.500 And we developed a personal friendship.

00:38:59.500 He's the one who one time told me not to fly.

00:39:02.500 They had a defector in Paris who had said that they were hijacked,

00:39:06.500 were going to hijack the plane of the Cuba

00:39:08.500 and involved in the assassination of Che Guevara.

00:39:10.500 So Shackley called me at the station and said,

00:39:12.500 you are going to Miami on vacation.

00:39:13.500 Don't fly into Miami.

00:39:15.500 So what I did, I flew into Atlanta, rent a car,

00:39:18.500 went back spending Christmas with my family and back.

00:39:21.500 Then I went back to Atlanta on the 6th of January of 1971.

00:39:25.500 And I had a cousin in there.

00:39:27.500 So she was at the airport.

00:39:28.500 I had a flight who lived Atlanta, Houston, Houston, San Francisco.

00:39:32.500 I had like four hours overlay in San Francisco.

00:39:34.500 And then I found out there was another plane stopping in Dallas one hour later.

00:39:38.500 So I changed that to stay with my cousin one more hour.

00:39:40.500 So when I got to Vietnam, nobody was waiting for me.

00:39:43.500 So when I got in there, I went to the Dock Hotel, our hotel changed.

00:39:48.500 When I got to the embassy, they told me, I said, what are you doing here?

00:39:50.500 I said, what do you mean?

00:39:51.500 I was supposed to arrive today.

00:39:52.500 Nobody was waiting for me.

00:39:53.500 I said, no, no, no.

00:39:54.500 Your plane was hijacked to Cuba.

00:39:56.500 We're trying to find out how the hell we can get you out of there.

00:39:59.500 That's why when we went, the agency sent me and my family to Argentina in 1973,

00:40:06.500 they got our passport, our passport of my wife and I said, place of birth, Colorado instead

00:40:13.500 of Cuba for that trip.

00:40:15.500 So in case I got hijacked, they could claim me as a U.S. citizen.

00:40:18.500 That was the only time I was a U.S. citizen by birth for about a year.

00:40:22.500 I have copy of the passport.

00:40:24.500 Amazing.

00:40:25.500 Did you ever meet Fidel Castro?

00:40:26.500 No.

00:40:27.500 I wish I had because he would not be there a long time ago.

00:40:31.500 What do you think of Cuba now?

00:40:35.500 It's a disaster.

00:40:37.500 I don't know how they are still able to stand the way it is.

00:40:41.500 The economy is completely on the ground.

00:40:44.500 I cannot understand these people who talk about socialism, who talk about progressive.

00:40:50.500 Look, whatever socialism touched, completely destroyed.

00:40:53.500 Look what happened to Cuba.

00:40:55.500 It was one of the most prosperous islands in 1958.

00:41:00.500 You know, the dollar, if you know, it was the Cuban peso was higher, 3 cents on the dollar.

00:41:04.500 You wanted to buy Cuban peso, you had to pay 1 dollar and 3 cents for the Cuban dollar.

00:41:09.500 The same like the Dominican Republic. 0.86

00:41:10.500 It destroyed the economy.

00:41:12.500 Look at Venezuela.

00:41:13.500 The richest country in America, with the reserving oil, unbelievable.

00:41:18.500 And look how it is.

00:41:19.500 Whatever they touch, they destroy it.

00:41:21.500 That's why I have been very concerned in this country of all of these people talking about socialism,

00:41:25.500 all of that.

00:41:26.500 They have no idea what it is.

00:41:28.500 Unfortunately, we have a lot of professors in the university that inculcate this idea that they have never lived through.

00:41:33.500 That's what I tell people when I talk to them.

00:41:35.500 People can tell you what socialism is when they have never lived.

00:41:39.500 When you live in there, you see what happened to you, you understand what socialism is.

00:41:43.500 And we know because we suffered that in our own flesh.

00:41:46.500 Have you ever been back?

00:41:48.500 No, I can't.

00:41:49.500 I have three death sentences in absentia.

00:41:51.500 Well, I was back the last time.

00:41:52.500 It was in 1965, but I was with a team to photograph a Soviet submarine base in the Isle of Pines.

00:42:01.500 But that's the only time that I've touched Cuban soil.

00:42:04.500 How did you, you said you went back a number of times in a clandestine way.

00:42:10.500 How did you get in?

00:42:11.500 By both, clandestinely.

00:42:13.500 And we had people working for us in the inside who would contact us at the coastline.

00:42:17.500 And you trusted them?

00:42:18.500 You were never worried about being betrayed or executed?

00:42:20.500 We had to trust them.

00:42:21.500 We had no choice.

00:42:23.500 There were people that were betrayed later on, but I was lucky as hell, really.

00:42:26.500 I was very, very lucky.

00:42:27.500 Did they get out, the people who helped you?

00:42:30.500 Some of them are still living in there.

00:42:33.500 But nobody knew that they worked or helped us.

00:42:37.500 Did you just go from Key West?

00:42:39.500 Or how did you?

00:42:41.500 Well, it was in between Key West and Isla Morada.

00:42:46.500 A boat would pick us up in there, take off to the mother boat, and then we'd take off for

00:42:51.500 Cuba from there, for the operation inside Cuba, in and out.

00:42:56.500 Only one team, from the Bay of Peaks people who entered Cuba, only one team made it by air.

00:43:01.500 They were parachuted in, only five people.

00:43:04.500 Most of us entered by boat clandestinely.

00:43:07.500 And there was a group of about five or six who came in through the airport with the real names,

00:43:12.500 which covered a story that they were coming back from American universities.

00:43:16.500 But most of us came in clandestinely by boat.

00:43:19.500 And the mechanism was we would go to the coastline.

00:43:21.500 There was a reception team there with lights.

00:43:24.500 We'd disembark.

00:43:25.500 Then there was a guy who'd take us maybe four or five kilometers into the main highway

00:43:29.500 where the car from the movement would pick us up and take us to a safe house in Havana.

00:43:33.500 We had to trust them.

00:43:34.500 We had no idea who they were, but we were lucky.

00:43:37.500 Was anyone from the CIA, any of these teams ever caught?

00:43:41.500 No.

00:43:42.500 Personnel from the CIA itself, they never participated inside Cuba.

00:43:46.500 They didn't allow them.

00:43:47.500 There were only Cubans involved in that operation.

00:43:50.500 We CIA case officer.

00:43:52.500 We don't call it the controller.

00:43:54.500 We call it a case officer.

00:43:56.500 Were any of them ever caught, though, by the Cuban government?

00:43:59.500 No, no, no.

00:44:01.500 Our people did, yes.

00:44:03.500 From my infiltration team, four of them were executed by firing a squad.

00:44:08.500 One of them was killed defending a safe house.

00:44:11.500 And there were 17 of them who had spent 20 years in Cuban prison.

00:44:16.500 Because when the treaty became to release the brigade from prison,

00:44:19.500 our people, even though we were brigade members, were not considerate who landed military.

00:44:24.500 They considered us a spy because we gained to become a clandestinely.

00:44:27.500 So we were not part of that exchange of prisoners.

00:44:30.500 So my people from my infiltration team spent 18, 20 years in prison before they were released.

00:44:36.500 Did they come to the U.S. when they got out?

00:44:38.500 Yes.

00:44:39.500 Amazing.

00:44:40.500 So a lot of people got caught and killed.

00:44:43.500 Oh, yes.

00:44:44.500 It was a disaster.

00:44:46.500 What do you think of the CIA now?

00:44:49.500 It's not what we used to be.

00:44:52.500 I recall in my time, we were given a task.

00:44:56.500 We would run an operation if there is any problem.

00:44:59.500 Then we went to our legal service, you know, the council to ask, you know, how we solve the problem.

00:45:05.500 Because of the situation that happened in the past that a lot of agents have lost their retirement, all of that because of operation.

00:45:11.500 Now they go, when they are given a mission, they go to the lawyer first and find out what they can do and what they cannot do.

00:45:18.500 And they put a tremendous disadvantage on us.

00:45:22.500 In my time, you could do a hell of a lot of more things than they can do right now.

00:45:26.500 They tried their best anyway.

00:45:28.500 And the guy who really destroyed the CIA was Jimmy Carter.

00:45:35.500 How?

00:45:36.500 Well, I remember I talked to Shackley.

00:45:38.500 He told me about it.

00:45:39.500 We had very high penetration, for example, in Al-Qaeda and in Sendero Luminoso.

00:45:44.500 If we had those people, 9-11 would have never happened.

00:45:48.500 When Jimmy Carter became president, he asked for a briefing from the CIA.

00:45:51.500 He wanted to know how those penetrations were handled.

00:45:54.500 So Shackley was the one in charge because he told me personally.

00:45:57.500 He was the one in charge to brief the President Carter on that.

00:46:00.500 So he told the President that you have a guy who infiltrate into a cell.

00:46:04.500 The guy was coming to more and more access, higher in the organization.

00:46:09.500 He would come up, for example, with an operation that we're going to do a terrorist operation.

00:46:14.500 So there is a very pragmatic group who would have studied the operation.

00:46:17.500 If there was very minimal damages, they would allow the operation to go through.

00:46:22.500 Because if every time you have a guy inside and the operation failed, they know somebody's infiltrating there.

00:46:28.500 So there you have to allow some operation to go through with minimal casualties.

00:46:33.500 Jimmy Carter said it was immoral to do that.

00:46:36.500 So he actually ordered all of those penetrations to be terminated.

00:46:40.500 So people that took years to be able to get them and set them in inside the nets like in Al-Qaeda or Sendero Luminoso, 0.51

00:46:47.500 they had to be told, sorry, we cannot support you anymore.

00:46:50.500 We recommend that you leave the cell. We cannot pay you anymore and terminate it.

00:46:53.500 So we lost all of our eyes and ears inside the terrorist group with Jimmy Carter.

00:46:58.500 And he put a lot of emphasis on satellite.

00:47:00.500 Satellite doesn't get inside the head of people.

00:47:02.500 So we lost that.

00:47:04.500 That's why we had 9-11.

00:47:05.500 We had Sendero Luminoso take over the embassy of Japan in Peru at that time.

00:47:10.500 If we had what we had before, that would have never happened.

00:47:13.500 Then it was authorized, but it take a long time to rebuild that type of situation.

00:47:17.500 The CIA, it seems more a military force now than it once did.

00:47:24.500 Do you think that's accurate?

00:47:26.500 No, we have always, we have the CLA and the CIA military branch.

00:47:30.500 We have our own, for example, Air Force.

00:47:32.500 We have our own Navy with different specific equipment that nobody else has

00:47:37.500 that have been developed for a special operation with us.

00:47:39.500 And there is a paramilitary apparatus that which I did belong to.

00:47:43.500 We used to call it Special Operations Division.

00:47:46.500 Now they call it Special Activity Division that operates paramilitary operations in areas.

00:47:52.500 And they do a tremendous job.

00:47:54.500 That's the thing that we never get recognized for it.

00:47:58.500 People are blamed, the CIA is blamed for many things that happen.

00:48:01.500 But there is a lot of successes that can never be told.

00:48:04.500 We have saved a lot of life in the process that nobody knows about it.

00:48:07.500 And nobody can take credit for the situation.

00:48:10.500 We have in our world several stars with more than 100 people have died within the CIA.

00:48:17.500 Most of them doesn't even have the name in their only one star because they were so classified

00:48:22.500 that the name never appeared.

00:48:24.500 So you have to be dedicated to do that because you,

00:48:27.500 it's one of the organizations that receives very little credit and do a lot of.

00:48:31.500 What do you, where do you think this country is going right now?

00:48:36.500 Well, I hope it changed.

00:48:39.500 A lot of people used to say in Cuba it could not happen here.

00:48:42.500 A lot of people would say it could not happen in the United States.

00:48:45.500 After what happened in Cuba, where I have seen other places, I am concerned about this country.

00:48:50.500 I hope that we can regain the presidency because this thing goes to what they call socialism.

00:48:59.500 It would be a disaster.

00:49:00.500 We would never know the United States the way it is.

00:49:02.500 I am concerned because I know what happened in Cuba.

00:49:05.500 And unfortunately we have a lot of professors at high level university who are leftists,

00:49:11.500 who are brainwashing the head of a lot of our brightest students.

00:49:16.500 And that's a very concern to me.

00:49:18.500 Have you seen that in other countries?

00:49:21.500 But more than the United States than any place else.

00:49:24.500 They have concentrated in the United States because they know the importance of the United States.

00:49:28.500 And that's what is really concern me in this country here.

00:49:31.500 I think this coming election is very important.

00:49:33.500 I don't know who the hell is going to be the president,

00:49:35.500 but if the Democrats get the power in there and they continue the way they are with the open border

00:49:40.500 and all of that, in a few years we will know the United States the way it is now today.

00:49:46.500 We can lose the United States.

00:49:48.500 I never thought I could say that, but now I can say that I am very concerned.

00:49:53.500 How can it be stopped?

00:49:55.500 Well, I hope that people realize what's going on.

00:49:58.500 They were always going on in the United States and people realize and vote intelligently this time.

00:50:03.500 See the reality of what's going on.

00:50:06.500 I don't want to say more.

00:50:07.500 I think people in Italian would be able to understand that.

00:50:11.500 Looking back, my last question, if you could do something different with your life, what would you have?

00:50:18.500 It seems like you got into this kind of amazing line of work almost accidentally.

00:50:27.500 I always wanted to be a civil engineer.

00:50:31.500 Really?

00:50:32.500 Really.

00:50:33.500 My grandson now is in the third year of civil engineering at the University of Washington,

00:50:38.500 George Washington University.

00:50:40.500 But that's what I wanted to be.

00:50:41.500 And look, history took me to a different place.

00:50:45.500 I was never able to graduate from high school, never from university.

00:50:50.500 My son, my daughter did, my wife did when she was at Bar University, but I didn't.

00:50:55.500 But I don't complain.

00:50:56.500 I think that I had a life that I can see myself and think that I contributed a little bit to have a better world that we have today.

00:51:05.500 And I don't regret what I did.

00:51:07.500 No one better of it.

00:51:08.500 Well, you certainly had the most interesting life of almost anyone I've ever talked to.

00:51:12.500 So that's worth a lot.

00:51:13.500 Thank you, sir.

00:51:14.500 Mr. Rodriguez, thank you very much for telling me.

00:51:16.500 Pleasure.

00:51:17.500 Bye.

The Tucker Carlson Show - May 06, 2024

Former CIA officer Felix Rodriguez has led a fascinating life. He was involved in the Bay of Pigs Invasion and was one of the last men to speak to Che Guevara before his execution.

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