The Tucker Carlson Show - Geoff Shepard： Watergate Was A Scam (And Now They're Scamming Trump)

00:00:00.000 welcome to tucker carlson show it's become pretty clear that the mainstream media are dying

00:00:11.600 they can't die quickly enough and there's a reason they're dying because they lie they lied so much

00:00:17.340 it killed them we're not doing that tucker carlson.com we promise to bring you the most

00:00:21.480 honest content the most honest interviews we can without fear or favor here's the latest

00:00:27.560 so the 50th anniversary of richard nixon's resignation as president uh is in august

00:00:35.560 we're upon it it's right now um nixon was by some measures the most popular president

00:00:41.240 ever elected um and then into a second term he was gone and lived the rest of his life in a kind of

00:00:48.200 disgrace and so as the 50th anniversary uh arrives you have to ask yourself is everything that we

00:00:54.760 think we know about watergate true um what did happen there actually in retrospect it looks very

00:01:00.580 much like a kind of coup uh against a sitting and enormously popular president was it that well

00:01:06.820 there are very few people still around um with their faculties who can answer that definitively

00:01:12.760 and jeff shepherd is at the very top of that list he graduated harvard law school in 1969 and went

00:01:19.260 immediately to work at the white house as a white house fellow and remained there through the entire

00:01:24.820 nixon administration pretty much um leaving only uh during the ford administration 1975 toward the end

00:01:32.760 of the nixon's time in office he worked as a lawyer in nixon's defense um and had a bunch of different

00:01:40.320 jobs knew every single person uh around nixon and in fact is the person who transcribed the famous

00:01:46.360 nixon tapes uh including the smoking gun tape in fact is the person who named it the smoking gun tape

00:01:51.320 so um probably the most reliable and certainly best informed uh narrator of that story and we are

00:01:59.560 honored to have him here to assess watergate on its 50th anniversary uh thank you jeff shepherd

00:02:06.380 appreciate it it is great to be with you it is great and i i i probably five years ago wouldn't

00:02:13.100 have been anxious to do this because it felt historical and of of interest to me but maybe not

00:02:17.080 of interest to a larger audience but given everything that we've seen in washington in the

00:02:21.280 past say eight years i think people are reassessing their understanding of of of recent history and that

00:02:28.160 would include watergate um so if you wouldn't mind just giving us starting with an overview

00:02:33.100 of what was watergate what was the scandal just give us a very crisp timeline

00:02:39.500 of what happened to president nixon during that and then if you would tell us what you think

00:02:44.700 actually happened then we can get into the details of sure sure it it is a scandal that unfolds over

00:02:50.780 two and a half years all kinds of currents and eddies and and uh items that aren't core yes the core

00:02:58.260 story of watergate is that uh five people were arrested on the morning of june 17th 1972 in the

00:03:07.340 watergate office building in the offices of the democratic national committee they had bugging

00:03:13.260 devices on them uh they were photographing documents uh it turned out one of them was a former career cia

00:03:22.940 agent who was head of security for the nixon re-election committee the committee for the re-election

00:03:30.140 of the president whose initials spell the word creep so it's crp but it's pronounced creep

00:03:37.100 uh the other four were cuban americans and and uh uh it then turned out that uh there were

00:03:45.980 two masterminds from the re-election committee who were the the overlords of the break-in so you they

00:03:54.780 were brought to trial burglary trial uh they were all convicted uh seven people uh uh and then it turned

00:04:02.940 out that there had been an effort to cover up who else knew because the the uh uh break-in was planned

00:04:11.820 by the re-election committee and if you knew about the planned break-in you were in trouble too and there

00:04:18.300 was a cover-up because very important people might have known about the planned break-in and we'll go into

00:04:25.820 it in a couple of minutes but the cover-up ultimately failed uh one uh james mccord the the cia uh wire man

00:04:37.900 wrote a letter to the judge and said there's been a cover-up people have committed perjury

00:04:43.260 and the cover-up came apart and people who were close to that or whose name figured in the press

00:04:51.020 ultimately resigned uh uh and it turned out the cover-up was actually run by the president's own

00:04:58.620 lawyer uh but but it it infected other people on the white house staff so i i'll get into my my point

00:05:07.020 of view in a minute but the end result when everything came out and it turned out the president was taping

00:05:13.980 people in his oval office there was a tape system uh that had run for two years so the public concluded

00:05:21.820 i think fairly that if they got the tapes they could figure out who was who knew what went and the

00:05:28.460 most famous quote is from senator howard baker of the urban committee what did the president know

00:05:35.340 and when did he know it and you'll find that echoing in every scandal since uh uh and popularly so

00:05:43.980 uh uh the as the as the investigation progressed more and more people got caught up in the wrongdoing

00:05:52.220 and ultimately there was a tape that came out uh after the recommendations for impeachment

00:05:59.900 after the supreme court ruled the tapes had to be turned over to the prosecutors this tape came out

00:06:06.860 that recorded the president agreeing with his chief of staff to get the cia to tell the fbi that two

00:06:14.620 people they wanted to interview were off limits because they were cia personnel now i'm somewhat familiar with

00:06:22.140 the smoking gun tape because i was the third person to hear it after the supreme court's decision i was the one who

00:06:30.300 prepared the official transcript of it first transcript and i'm the one that nicknamed it the smoking gun

00:06:37.420 and the reason i did that was because the president's chief lawyer when he heard it he was the second

00:06:43.500 person after president nixon to hear that tape the tape of june 23rd 1972 six days after the break-in arrests

00:06:53.340 he concluded turns out wrongly that the president had been involved in the cover-up from the beginning

00:07:00.540 because he agreed to this idea to get the cia to tell the fbi not to interview the people now let's go

00:07:08.940 back and start with what i think happened wait me i just just for people who aren't um you know as familiar

00:07:16.860 with the details in the overview so so the break-in happens in 1972 during the campaign absolutely

00:07:24.540 nixon wins an overwhelming landslide by some measures the biggest landslide in american electoral history

00:07:29.900 yes um and so he's the most popular president and then the washington post bob woodward and carl

00:07:37.660 bernstein being the reporters on the story start to break a series of stories about the break-in and

00:07:41.900 then the cover-up etc etc and what happens then how is nixon booted from office and well those stories

00:07:49.420 were breaking before he was re-elected yes so it is fair to say the public was informed about this

00:07:55.260 minor scandal interesting but they still voted over womanly for the president he's running against

00:08:00.380 george mcgovern yes and acknowledged progressive uh his we we characterized his campaign as being in

00:08:07.980 favor of acid amnesty and abortion yes uh he promised to raise taxes it was a wipeout uh but then facts

00:08:17.260 started to come out that were embarrassing as the cover-up started to come apart the actual trial of the

00:08:25.020 watergate burglars occurred after the president had been re-elected so he wins a landslide in november

00:08:31.660 but the trial starts in january and when those seven were all convicted and facing tens of years of

00:08:41.980 imprisonment it broke the cover-up they didn't hold anymore and as that broke uh it was like a a flood

00:08:50.780 coming downstream swallowing dam after dam uh more and more things came out that were adverse

00:08:58.140 the uh senate set up an investigative committee the senate urban committee they were public hearings

00:09:05.580 they were dragging people up there uh and the people didn't look good you know it looked bad stories

00:09:11.820 uh and then it turned out there was a taping system and everybody thought wow now we can learn

00:09:17.420 the truth and there was a year-long battle over who got the tapes and and the famous case is

00:09:25.580 usv nixon handed down in july of uh 1974 now it was the prosecutor who subpoenaed the tapes

00:09:36.540 americans don't understand it had nothing to do with the congress congress never won a battle saying

00:09:43.580 they could have the tapes because of separation of powers now the president could protect his own

00:09:48.940 conversations but not from possible criminal involvement and that was the holding of the

00:09:55.900 supreme court so you end up with three things for certain there really was a break-in they were

00:10:03.340 caught red-handed there really was a cover-up there's just no question about that who was involved

00:10:10.060 is the real question and nixon really did resign he's the only president at least to date who's ever

00:10:16.460 resigned from office so let's start at with the crime the break-in yeah you said um there was one

00:10:24.380 the the man in charge was a cia officer mccord no well yes he was the senior guy of the break-in team

00:10:32.060 but it would be unfair to say he was in charge i mean at on the scene on the scene there were two

00:10:37.900 goals as i understand it i have no personal knowledge two goals of the break-in one was to fix a

00:10:45.580 a uh a listening device a bug in the chairman's phone larry o'brien's phone that wasn't transmitting

00:10:53.580 correctly and the other was to photocopy every document they could find and the cubans were

00:10:59.660 supposed to do that and mccord was supposed to fix the bug some people think there's all kinds of

00:11:06.380 conspiracy theories about that break-in because we've never ascertained why the lead prosecutor the

00:11:14.540 career why what why did they go in why did they go in who thought that was a bright idea you get down

00:11:23.260 to it and there are all kinds of stories tucker and i can't vouch for the stories but supposedly

00:11:28.700 howard hunt who's a separate career cia agent he said this is nuts larry o'brien has already left for

00:11:37.980 their convention down in miami this is high risk low reward i don't want to go back in but gordon liddy

00:11:46.380 who developed the campaign intelligence plan was eager to show off kind of a macho man no by jove if

00:11:55.740 that stuff isn't working i'm going to send my team back in to fix it and then to fix it he recruits the

00:12:04.860 head of security for the re-election committee who's james mccord so you're right mccord is is

00:12:12.060 the senior guy on site but liddy's pulling the strings how many of the burglars had some connection

00:12:17.980 to the cia oh the cia as did as did howard hunt the only guy who doesn't is gordon liddy who was an

00:12:27.900 fbi agent well he had been an fbi agent and an assistant uh district attorney uh i had the

00:12:36.780 pleasure of knowing gordon when i was a white house fellow at treasury and he was fired from the

00:12:43.740 department of treasury because he wouldn't follow direction and i have the misfortune of having fought

00:12:50.780 to keep him off the white house staff i maintained he was a loose cannon he wouldn't follow direction

00:12:57.900 and we would rue the day if we hired him but i lost i knew him well and i can i can verify i i

00:13:04.700 thought he was great but he was definitely a loose cannon i remember walking down the hallway of the

00:13:09.820 old eob the the gorgeous uh marble uh squares black and white saying to myself the day gordon left

00:13:19.180 he's left good heavens he's been here and he's left and nothing's gone wrong and i i pitched a hissy

00:13:26.780 fit they must think i'm a fool and then later it turned out that gordon had run this whole thing

00:13:32.780 but can i ask so the cia is an intelligence gathering agency whose main purpose is to collect information

00:13:40.780 from around the world and give it to the president so he can make better informed

00:13:44.220 foreign policy decisions yes they have no right to operate in the united states open and shut

00:13:51.900 no no no operation whatsoever and i mean from from its inception um that has been the rule

00:13:58.860 it seems very strange that every burglar has some connection to the cia has worked for the cia like

00:14:04.700 what is that everyone but gordon and gordon is the moving force so i tell you right off the top

00:14:14.220 the cia knew all about the burglary in advance everything president nixon knew nothing when gordon

00:14:22.700 goes over to the re-election committee he's recruited by john dean the president's lawyer he shows up at

00:14:29.820 creep and he says i've been promised a million dollars to do a campaign intelligence plan now those

00:14:37.740 words are pretty innocent but the the operation is not innocent at all it's opposition research every

00:14:46.300 campaign wants to know everything they can find out adverse about their opponent of course and and

00:14:52.300 when uh today when uh uh they were looking for who was going to be trump's vice presidential nominee

00:14:59.980 the other side was doing research on all the possibilities of course so they were ready to jump

00:15:05.100 okay gordon is asked to prepare he's recruited by john dean the president's lawyer to develop a campaign

00:15:13.020 intelligence plan and he gets carried away he says wow i can really impress these people i will put

00:15:20.780 together a plan that they will just blow them out of the water and he has specific proposals for

00:15:27.660 mugging bugging kidnapping and prostitution and i'm not making this stuff up gordon is so thrilled with

00:15:36.220 his plan he describes it in his autobiography so you can go to see his book and read in great detail

00:15:44.220 he shows up over over at re-election says i've been promised a million dollars the acting head

00:15:51.740 says well nobody here has authority to decide a budget item that's that big the only guy that can make

00:15:59.580 that decision is john mitchell and he hasn't arrived yet he's still attorney general we'll have to go over to

00:16:06.940 his office and explain the plan so they go over on january 27th 1972 and gordon puts up his plan on

00:16:17.580 uh uh whiteboards prepared by the cia it explains this plan this crazy plan now what can i just want

00:16:28.140 to get back to the the same question which is why would the cia be involved in anything like this well

00:16:35.820 we've agreed they cannot do anything domestic this is illegal we know that they can't do this but they

00:16:40.860 are but they do well howard hunt was a career officer with the cia uh we got john ehrlichman the

00:16:51.420 head of domestic affairs to call richard helms or verne walters one or the other the head or deputy

00:16:59.340 at cia at cia you need to help these people you need to help these people so they gave howard hunt their

00:17:07.260 former employee a wig a voice altering device something to put in his shoe to make him look

00:17:14.220 like he had a limp so he he wouldn't be recognizable if he was seen they give them a camera a cia produced

00:17:22.860 camera that only the cia can open and develop and they use it to take pictures of a break-in they're

00:17:31.740 planning out in los angeles and and and then they come back and they say well we're gonna show this

00:17:38.140 plan and gordon talks them in i'm sorry to ask you pause what what break-in were they planning in los

00:17:44.380 angeles the cia well this is why watergate gets to be so much fun there was this this four volume study

00:17:52.540 of the vietnam war called the pentagon papers yes and it went up through lyndon johnson and it leaked

00:17:59.420 and it was considered to be the biggest national security league in the cold war

00:18:06.300 and the it was an internal assessment of how the vietnam war was going

00:18:10.860 well how it started from day one all the way back to world war ii and it was put together secretly

00:18:18.940 unpeer-reviewed by the three most senior doves on the war paul warnke who was counseled to the

00:18:26.780 department of defense morton halperon who was a national security officer and a third guy les gelb

00:18:35.340 who did most of the writing and it went on for a couple years nobody else knew it was underway

00:18:41.900 it wasn't even completed when nixon was when nixon took office so they took their study to brookings and

00:18:49.820 completed it in the next six months nobody on the national security council knew nobody on the uh

00:18:56.700 state department or the national or anybody else just an internal study by the pentagon but one of

00:19:04.060 the people who participated in the study daniel ellsberg originally a former marine originally

00:19:10.860 strongly in favor of the war had switched and was opposed to the war and felt this thing should be leaked

00:19:19.260 and he worked very hard to get it leaked he offered it to william fulbright the chairman of senate uh

00:19:26.220 foreign relations and fulbright wouldn't touch it he he said this is top secret you get it sent to me

00:19:32.300 officially and i'll deal with it but i'm not going to touch it until it's official i don't want any part

00:19:37.420 of that so ultimately the new york times decided they'd go with it and in june of 1971 they started producing

00:19:47.340 excerpts and henry kissinger went crazy he didn't didn't concern nixon nixon wasn't a part of the

00:19:55.580 study but it it suggested the war was illegitimate from day one that was the purpose of the study

00:20:03.340 and kissinger said look i'm negotiating with three totalitarian regimes north vietnam china and russia

00:20:13.900 if they think we can't keep secrets they won't talk so you must do something so there was an all-out

00:20:23.100 all-out press to stop publication of the pentagon papers and we lost but on the way to the supreme

00:20:31.260 court there were 29 injunctions stopping newspapers from publishing excerpts and then the court held no

00:20:41.020 no prior publication you can't stop it until you can sue after they publish but you can't stop something

00:20:48.380 before it's published that's freedom of the press it turned out ellsberg had had strong connections

00:20:55.740 worked for the rand corporation out west in santa monica and he had access because rand had access

00:21:03.980 to 54 000 other classified documents and so this unit set up in the white house to try to stop the

00:21:14.620 damage from the pentagon papers and stop ellsberg from leaking anything further

00:21:21.100 decided what they ought to do to possibly learn his plans was to break into his psychiatrist's office

00:21:30.860 in beverly hills dr lewis fielding and they tried to get hoover to do it but hoover wouldn't do it

00:21:41.100 because ellsberg's father-in-law was a guy named leonard marx he ran a big toy company and he gave toys to

00:21:49.260 hoover at christmas to give to underprivileged kids you know you sit there and say what goes wrong with

00:21:55.740 our government well what goes wrong as we deal with human beings you know so they got the bright idea

00:22:03.100 to break into else fielding's office to search his files and see if by some chance daniel ellsberg had

00:22:12.780 told dr fielding what his plans were and they didn't use the fbi of course they couldn't use

00:22:21.020 the cia it could staff them but couldn't take operations so they used gordon liddy and howard hunt

00:22:31.500 and and they said we know who can actually do the deed we know these cubans down in miami

00:22:38.540 because when we were going to invade cuba i was their cia contact i was the mysterious this is

00:22:45.100 howard hunt i was the mysterious eduardo and they respect me so if i tell them this break-in is

00:22:52.620 necessary because it has something to do with castro they'll do it so they go out and they break in

00:22:59.660 and they can't pick the lock so much poison now in our public square and if you take almost all of it

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00:26:21.980 who's paying for this who's organizing who is the authority telling these guys to go break in to

00:26:30.060 gordon liddy is the chief operational officer for the plumbers yes he wasn't hired to be the plumber he

00:26:39.180 was already on the staff remember i tried to keep right i failed so when this thing all developed my

00:26:45.260 immediate supervisor bud kroeg who was put in charge of the special unit that became nicknamed the plumbers

00:26:52.860 because they stopped leaks he assigned gordon liddy and this other gentleman who is a retired cia officer

00:27:02.300 howard hunt joined the team as a consultant so they were the two people who were planning it

00:27:10.940 uh gordon was on the staff he was paid as a staff member and hunt was paid from a a fund the domestic

00:27:20.460 council had to fund operations it was government money so they do the break i don't know who paid the

00:27:27.260 cubans i'm unable to say that i doubt the cia paid them it could have been private money raised off

00:27:34.620 budget but i just don't know the break-in was not successful they did not find the file but since they

00:27:41.820 couldn't pick the lock gordon ordered them to break in and make it look like a drug bus like some druggie

00:27:50.700 went into the shrink's office looking for pills they didn't get caught

00:27:58.060 fielding reports it to the police so there's a police record so when this all starts to come out

00:28:05.260 later they know exactly when the break-in occurred now assume for a moment whether you agree or not

00:28:12.220 agree that the fbi conducted the operation it would have been successful no fingerprints no trace left

00:28:19.020 behind so there could have been oh i think it was broken into but no proof but because it was botched

00:28:26.700 there was proof they got back to the white house they told john ehrlichman who had approved a a secret

00:28:35.980 operation covert not necessarily illegal and they told him they'd broken in they hadn't been successful

00:28:43.500 so they wanted to go break into fielding's house to see if the fire was there and ehrlichman said no no

00:28:50.620 no we aren't going to do this anymore get liddy off my staff then comes john dean assigned to do a

00:29:00.940 campaign intelligence plan looking for somebody to recruit talks to bud kroeg bud says have i got a deal

00:29:08.460 for you here's gordon liddy gordon has handled sensitive items for us in the past so dean goes for it and he

00:29:17.100 hires go he recruits gordon liddy and promises him all this money i think the actual promise was a half

00:29:24.140 million possibly a million so gordon shows up at the re-election committee uh i'm supposed to do this plan and

00:29:32.460 and magruder the acting chief says nobody with authority to do this to approve the expenditure so

00:29:40.620 they go over to john mitchell's office twice to present the plan it's not approved at either meeting

00:29:48.460 but later when these guys are arrested caught in the act people who were at that meeting are at risk of

00:29:56.460 prosecution and that's when john dean who was at the meeting who had recruited gordon liddy he starts

00:30:04.460 running the cover-up nobody on the white house staff not haldeman or ehrlichman or nixon do anything about

00:30:12.300 the break-in but is that confirmed oh absolutely without question absolutely without question gordon liddy had

00:30:19.340 never met any of them there's nothing in writing there there was a tickler file we with bob haldeman

00:30:27.820 the way he ran the white house if there was a five projects we want a presidential library started

00:30:35.900 we want uh to know what we're going to do about uh the environment we want to know something else and

00:30:42.060 they'd be after you until you said yes that's underway it wasn't substantive it was just this item has

00:30:50.700 been addressed right so that they can show they can they can show that they were told they had made

00:30:57.420 arrangements for a campaign intelligence plan but no details when do you think nixon learned about the

00:31:04.700 watergate break-in uh he was down in key biscayne he came back on monday he read about it in the uh

00:31:12.300 sunday paper the miami herald oh really yeah and he says what a dumb shit thing to do who would be so

00:31:18.540 stupid to break into the headquarters of the dnc especially because they didn't need to they

00:31:24.620 didn't need to and they weren't running it that the uh the candidates were running it you want you if

00:31:29.900 you were into this if you were into spying you'd break into mcgovern's headquarters of course that's

00:31:35.500 such a smart point so they they come back and and and as it comes apart wait so that i

00:31:41.740 i'm gonna ask you to pause again just because i i don't want to lose this thread so you just made

00:31:46.780 up i think an airtight case that there was no reason to do this nixon was winning absolutely the

00:31:51.900 dnc wasn't running the campaign anyway the whole thing was sloppy and stupid but we know that the

00:31:57.580 cia had knowledge of it because everyone there was a former cia and they did the charts that's hugely

00:32:03.980 important did the charts did the charts gordon liddy used to explain the plans john mitchell

00:32:09.500 so we know that the cia had a hand in orchestrating this break-in which which was unnecessary

00:32:13.820 absolutely um so so what the hell why you you come back to why the break-in yeah it's gordon liddy

00:32:21.420 showing off he's a madman but why would the cia go along with it i i i can't respond to that part

00:32:29.980 uh put it in put flip the coin okay the the wrongdoing the alleged wrongdoing is the cia

00:32:37.980 didn't they knew and they didn't tell anybody they knew okay you could make that case that they they

00:32:44.300 watched it burn down then you ask yourself who were they supposed to tell who were they supposed

00:32:51.980 to work for the president united states and john mitchell is alleged to have approved the plan

00:32:57.580 john mitchell the president's best friend who do you tell we think you're making a mistake

00:33:04.620 well you you dispatch the director richard helms maybe you send bob woodward over to the former navy

00:33:11.580 intel officer um right so it's all very strange so you but your um you believe that it it was all

00:33:20.620 because uh gordon liddy was greedy and reckless and without question in my mind i'm based on knowing

00:33:28.540 gordon liddy but not knowing anything about the break-in i mean i have no personal knowledge but you

00:33:35.100 i mean you worked there at the time you had no idea i knew everybody and well i didn't know the cubans

00:33:39.580 i i knew everybody from the white house that ended up being involved i never set foot in the campaign

00:33:46.060 headquarters terribly helpful how did you survive jeff well one i never worked on any campaign i worked

00:33:55.020 on the governance of course not the campaign staffer i get it but when so when did you learn of the

00:34:01.580 break in in the paper yeah in the paper so my secretary had a roommate that was the secretary

00:34:09.340 to the plumbers okay um i can't come up with her name but she sent me an email just just very recently

00:34:19.100 uh and she would tell my my secretary that that there were people that were under investigation they

00:34:26.940 hadn't yet indicted hadn't yet caught because the five people caught red-handed and there were two

00:34:33.660 others and there was speculation in the press about who those two others might be

00:34:39.340 so joanne lemare my secretary says well you know who they're talking about and i said well no no i have

00:34:46.380 no idea she said well let me give you his initials it's ggl i said means nothing to me

00:34:54.460 and she says it's g gordon jeff and there's this shocked pause when i remember my fight to keep

00:35:03.580 him off the staff and my telling myself that he's come he's gone and nothing's gone wrong

00:35:09.580 it turns out there's a whole lot that's gone wrong so can i ask i've already said that i knew gordon

00:35:13.820 liddy pretty well and and really liked him i found him enormously entertaining and and smart and

00:35:18.620 interesting however and he's gone now so he can't right defend himself but that's so crazy to do

00:35:27.420 something like that to break into the dnc for no real reason in the middle of a presidential campaign

00:35:32.300 you're winning anyway if he drove that and you're saying that he did is it possible that he was working

00:35:39.500 against nixon no no he expected to get based on his spectacular work on this campaign intel plan

00:35:48.620 that he would get a very high position in the second term that's what was driving him he has

00:35:54.060 conversations with howard hunt and says to hunt you you've played your your hand you know you're you've

00:36:01.340 retired you're older i'm looking to impress these people so i get a more senior position and he had

00:36:08.140 dreams of of grandeur now uh uh the the other issue and it's in lynn colodny's book uh silent coup

00:36:17.740 he says there was a totally separate reason and the reason had to do with john dean's girlfriend his

00:36:26.460 fiancee i know nothing about this story except to reproduce lynn's work he says the cia was running a

00:36:36.780 honey trap in the apartment building next door columbia plaza apartments and they were catching foreign

00:36:45.420 diplomats in compromising positions with good-looking women and john dean was dating the roommate of the

00:36:55.420 madam heidi reichen that was running the honey trap and she was best mate of honor at john dean's marriage

00:37:03.980 marriage to mo beiner dean but when they were dating dean's nick mo's nickname was clout because she was

00:37:14.620 dating the council to the president so she had clout and according to lynn this is not me this is lynn

00:37:22.380 lynn clodny john dean became worried that maureen dean's picture was in the desk drawer

00:37:32.460 where the diplomat not the foreign diplomats but the dnc field officers would come in right to the

00:37:41.020 campaign headquarters and they were looking for a good time and the dnc was availing itself of the

00:37:48.860 honey trap next door the prostitutes the prostitutes and what you would do this is the allegation what you

00:37:55.500 would do is you sit at the desk pull open the drawer there's a picture book you pick out somebody you

00:38:03.900 like you call the number and say i like 15 and a few minutes later 15 calls you back and arranges a date

00:38:13.260 pretty good unless john dean's girlfriend's picture was part of that portfolio so according to lynn

00:38:21.500 john the reason for the break-in was to go back in and if her picture was there take it out now one of

00:38:29.180 the cubans has a key and the key is taped to his notebook and when they are arrested during the course

00:38:38.220 of his arrest he tries to swallow the key okay he's damn lucky he didn't get shot he's not successful

00:38:47.420 they wrestle him down they get the key and then they try to figure out where it goes and i'll be a

00:38:53.020 son of a gun it goes to maxi wells desk which is alleged to have the photographs now they didn't

00:39:00.460 find that out they didn't know what it opened for a long time so the photographs are gone but the story

00:39:06.540 lingers where was maxi wells's desk she was the uh uh secretary to

00:39:17.420 guy named stewart i'm blocking on the name and he it was the only phone uh uh because he was running

00:39:26.380 field operations that was apart from the dnc so it was the only telephone that didn't go through the

00:39:33.500 dnc switchboard uh and she was his secretary uh for the uh uh for the conspirators among us his dad

00:39:44.140 worked for mullin and company which was a cia front operation in washington so there's again there's a

00:39:53.260 remote cia connection now let me finish on that because i i don't disagree with this allegation

00:40:00.620 that this break-in is just weird as it can be almost as weird as the trump assassination all these things

00:40:08.060 should never have happened but on the break-in uh uh uh the the issue that is that that is is so

00:40:17.580 strange it it it has to do with his uh john dean's girlfriend and and and the the stories that are told

00:40:26.860 about it and that's why john dean runs the cover-up because he's trying to protect his involvement both in

00:40:35.020 the meetings with john mitchell and in in this involvement with his fiance so it just gets weirder

00:40:43.340 and weirder mullin and company again the cia front uh they hire the first lawyer to come down to try to

00:40:52.860 bail the five who've been arrested out of jail his name is douglas caddy and he shows up they don't know

00:41:00.140 he's that they don't think they they've never retained him he just shows up at the police station

00:41:06.300 and says i represent those five guys we want to get him out of here and the cubans are saying to the

00:41:12.860 police you know we're on the same side you know there's going to be a phone call and we're going

00:41:18.700 to be out of here within the next half hour now he doesn't say it but you know we're working for the

00:41:24.220 president of the united states but the cia jumps in to save the burglars the mullin and company lawyer

00:41:31.260 they send the lawyer over i think what happens again this is all speculation is howard hunt who's

00:41:39.100 not caught goes back to the hotel room where the listening device is across the street it's in the

00:41:45.420 howard johnson's hotel across the street and tells the guy who was supposed to be listening

00:41:51.180 to to the wiretaps get your stuff and get out get lost and then howard hunt drives around

00:42:02.700 washington for a couple of hours he's not caught and decides the safest place to put his stuff

00:42:10.780 is his office in the old executive office building because he's a consultant to the plumbers

00:42:16.620 so he goes in 2 a.m 3 a.m leaves all his stuff in his safe he's got too much stuff so it's on the desk

00:42:25.740 and in his safe and then you you switch and we we didn't put this in our documentary where all of all

00:42:32.780 of this the part i have to play is in a documentary uh uh the fbi agent who is assigned angelo lano who's

00:42:43.100 assigned to the case from day one he says you know the burglars had two hotel keys at the watergate

00:42:52.060 hotel where they were staying so we went to their rooms i went to one of the rooms and all the evidence

00:42:58.220 we could ever have needed is laid out on the bed here's their id here's their wallets here's the

00:43:06.140 sequential hundred dollar bills here's an envelope from howard hunt nominally from miami to pay his

00:43:16.300 dues to a country club so it looks like he's a non-resident member i mean howard's cheating on his

00:43:22.300 dues so they go over and interview howard hunt that very day now hunt doesn't talk to him hunt bolts for

00:43:31.660 the west coast and hides out with a attorney friend waiting for word from gordon on what on earth to do

00:43:41.260 you know they've been caught gordon is over at the re-election committee shredding documents like

00:43:47.580 there's no tomorrow he actually had stationary printed up with the name gemstone because that was

00:43:55.740 the overall code name of his campaign intelligence plan and he's shredding documents incriminating

00:44:03.340 documents like mad and he's not really he's fired from the fbi from the re-election committee about

00:44:11.740 five days later because he won't cooperate with the fbi and then he's indicted on september 15th

00:44:20.140 break in his june they're caught red-handed uh the prosecutors launch a huge investigation

00:44:27.900 john dean does everything in his power to thwart it to coordinate the testimony he he he does

00:44:36.140 incredible things in his cover-up he rehearses some of the people on what they're to testify to when

00:44:46.060 they appear in front of the grand jury he destroys evidence some stuff taken from howard hunt's safe

00:44:55.020 he found dangerous so he peels it off puts it in his file cabinet and later admits he's destroyed it

00:45:05.660 he he talks the head of the fbi pat gray into sharing intelligence reports

00:45:14.060 prosecutive reports with him so he can share them with defense counsel so they know

00:45:20.300 where the investigation is going and pat gray testifies under oath he's put up to be head of

00:45:26.380 the fbi permanently and he says yes i gave john dean 81 investigative reports over time he told me he was

00:45:36.220 doing this investigation on behalf of the president and i believed him why wouldn't i give him the

00:45:41.580 investigative reports but john dean was giving them to defense counsel and john dean is the only person

00:45:50.380 in watergate who took money he embezzled four thousand dollars of campaign funds to pay for his

00:45:59.420 honeymoon and it's all admitted it's all on record he's disbarred by the commonwealth of virginia

00:46:06.220 february 6th uh 1974 and they the court hearing that the new york times article says he was accused

00:46:15.980 of suborning perjury all these all these criminal acts and he's disbarred he's been disbarred through

00:46:23.740 today he cannot represent anybody in court give legal advice he never goes to prison never spent and then

00:46:31.180 he winds up on msnbc as a political analyst yes huh you know there's there's certain unfairness in

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00:46:51.980 quote free who's paying for this and how think about it from it think about your free email account the

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00:47:17.820 it because their programs take all your information they hoover up your data private personal data and

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00:49:35.180 the prosecutors wouldn't give him immunity he he did everything he could he was first in

00:49:41.500 to reveal the cover-up and he said i can i can give you john mitchell i can give you jeb

00:49:46.140 magruder and they said that's not good enough so he said well shoot the there was a cover-up i was

00:49:53.260 running it i can give you white house people and they said not good enough you go before the grand

00:49:59.020 jury you want the truth to come out go before the grand jury without immunity but his lawyer is a very

00:50:06.220 very well-placed democrat he goes up to capitol hill to the urban committee works out a deal he'll be

00:50:14.460 their principal witness against his former colleagues if they will give him immunity and they do and

00:50:22.620 then it turns out he's going to be the lead witness in the cover-up trial and they're worried about his

00:50:27.820 credibility so they hurry up and sentence him to one to four years in prison the harshest sentence

00:50:34.860 passed down to non-burglars at that time before he testifies with his incarceration to begin on the

00:50:45.100 first day of the trial except he doesn't go to prison he's held in a witness holding facility

00:50:52.780 at fort holibird maryland a military base and he comes and he testifies i i've been punished i'm guilty

00:51:00.860 there was a cover-up i know i was running it these other people here they were part of it i swear to

00:51:07.820 you they were part of it you should convict them too and then seven days after they're convicted and

00:51:15.740 all counts john dean's sentence is reduced to time served he never spent a single night in jail so

00:51:25.020 there's only two real criminals in watergate there's people on the periphery but the core

00:51:31.180 criminals are gordon liddy his plan his genius his involvement he got five years he was sentenced to 35

00:51:39.980 five years in jail john dean ran the cover-up i mean we we have in the documentary that we've prepared

00:51:48.780 that's being released uh we have angelo lano the lead fbi agent he's asked what what about the

00:51:56.220 involvement in the cover-up what about john dean and he says i credit him with 95 of the cover-up

00:52:03.820 activities this is the head fbi agent but he becomes in later life i mean i've watched it over decades he

00:52:11.820 becomes a obedient apologist for the people in charge well what he does he's he's counted upon

00:52:18.940 to come out no matter what the what the case is and announce it's worse than watergate i mean he

00:52:25.180 testifies against republicans every time he doesn't testify on behalf of republicans that's kind of the

00:52:29.180 point he's he's become probably for the last 50 years he in exchange for not being punished for what he

00:52:38.060 did he has become a servant of the people who took nixon out that's the way it looks to me and then

00:52:43.500 out of no is that fair do you think oh completely out of nowhere in 2014 he publishes lots of books

00:52:50.780 all on watergate his wife publishes a book on watergate he publishes one in 2014 called the nixon defense

00:52:59.180 and at page 54 in his book there's a footnote and the footnote says you know funny thing the

00:53:09.260 smoking gun tape that drove nixon out of office it's released on august 5th he resigns on august 8th

00:53:18.060 that's what knocked nixon off that's been misunderstood from the beginning it was really an effort to not

00:53:26.620 have the fbi interview two people who might reveal the donation of significant contributions to creep

00:53:36.700 by democrats by very prominent democrats so what appears to be nixon agreeing to using the cia to cover up

00:53:47.580 the break-in is nothing of the sort nixon agreed to use the cia to protect the testimony against

00:53:56.620 two prominent democrats if nixon had known this when this tape came out when the tape was first heard

00:54:07.260 he might have lived to fight another day those are quotes at the bottom of the page he might have

00:54:12.540 lived to fight another day in short the smoking gun was shooting blanks okay here's the guy who's at

00:54:20.700 the absolute center of the alleged wrongdoing saying it's all been a mistake now he testified at the

00:54:29.020 trial and when you swear in as a witness you'd swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but

00:54:38.060 the truth john dean knew from the date that tape was released that it was misinterpreted but he didn't say

00:54:47.180 so at the trial when they were pushing on him i mean bob haldeman his life is hanging by a balance and

00:54:53.500 he says that was the political decision and john dean says well they were worried about gordon liddy's

00:54:59.340 involvement which is true but a lie it's just interesting that nixon was forced from office

00:55:07.180 on the allegation that he was using the cia to cover it up when in fact the cia had been involved in it long

00:55:15.420 before nixon even knew when we released the smoking gun tape on august 5th

00:55:23.660 we knew that would be the nail in the coffin that is his describe since you transcribed it yourself

00:55:29.660 what did it say for those who can't remember what was the substance of it i did transcribe it i don't

00:55:37.180 have the transcript but just if you just characterize bob haldeman comes in and he says the investigation is

00:55:43.660 going in a direction we don't want it to go and nixon says what what are you talking about he says

00:55:50.700 well they're tracing the money and what he means is they're not tracing how the money got to the

00:55:57.020 burglars because it's clear that came from creep it's how the money got to creep in the first place

00:56:02.700 and that will reveal these two guys so nixon says was is is it stands does this have to do with maurice

00:56:09.580 stands who's finance chairman and and haldeman says no it's somebody who works for stands it's ken

00:56:17.580 dolberg and then one of the most famous lines in our history nixon says who the hell is ken dolberg

00:56:25.500 and haldeman says he's a middleman and there's another guy a mexican attorney that i'll have the

00:56:32.060 name for you tomorrow but john they're going to reveal the identities of these donors and john's

00:56:40.780 thought about it and come up with an answer and he says why don't we he's just been over to see pat

00:56:45.420 gray at the fbi and pat gray says they think it's a cia operation because there's all these foreigners

00:56:51.500 all this foreign money and these cubans so we'll just get the cia to tell the fbi lay off these two

00:56:58.780 guys okay totally misunderstood by nixon's lawyers they they they read it as no no no

00:57:08.460 that the effort was to shut down the investigation but john dean who was there john dean is the one who

00:57:15.820 came up with the idea he gets in 2014 around to saying not so and even though he said that in his

00:57:23.980 book he'll sit there in meetings he'll sit there in tv shows where people say and and nixon tried to

00:57:31.580 stop the investigation he won't say a word see john's caught in a trap his interactions with nixon personal

00:57:39.740 interactions with nixon they're on tape so he can't fudge much there's a memo and i've produced the memo

00:57:49.500 written by one of the special prosecutors on february 6 74 and it lists the the material discrepancies

00:57:58.060 between john dean's testimony before the senate and what's on the tapes and there's 19 material discrepancies

00:58:06.860 but the press doesn't care the press has got a narrative and the narrative is nixon and his

00:58:13.100 people are all crooks we don't have to look any further we don't have to read the transcripts

00:58:19.180 we know what they say but they don't say it that's what my work keys off of and that's what we've reduced

00:58:26.540 to in this documentary so this might be a good transition to the question of the press's role

00:58:32.940 in this now from my perspective the press drove it i don't know if that's correct or not but

00:58:40.940 from the vantage of 50 years it looks like the washington post in particular ben bradley the

00:58:45.900 editor and the the two reporters woodward and bernstein drove the coverage with the new york

00:58:51.580 times and time and newsweek and uh and the network at the time there were three networks

00:58:57.980 in the nbc abc cbs yes there were two very powerful news weekly news magazines time and newsweek both

00:59:05.980 gone and there was one nationally prominent dominant newspaper the new york times yes and there was the

00:59:12.140 washington post but the other five were all the other six were all headquartered within six blocks

00:59:20.300 of each other in midtown manhattan and there was a single narrative nixon crook people guilty and

00:59:27.740 nothing to the contrary ever made it into print so it's no wonder american citizens think nixon was

00:59:34.620 guilty as hell was properly caught and his people were properly punished and so just for people who

00:59:40.140 weren't around 50 years ago and weren't working in government then um you're saying that those

00:59:46.460 six news outlets all headquartered in midtown manhattan were basically the sum total of the

00:59:54.620 narrative machine in the united states there was nothing else there was no other point of view

00:59:59.420 there was no talk radio there were no podcasts there was no alternate news networks there was no tucker

01:00:05.260 carlson and now look what's happened look what happened to today 50 years we have four terms that are

01:00:14.140 newly appreciated deep state fake news false narrative and most of all lawfare the use of the law the

01:00:26.060 criminal provisions of the law to ruin your political opponent the word lawfare is very recent

01:00:36.380 but the big bang the creation of lawfare that was watergate you have the special prosecution force

01:00:46.140 a hundred people that's the original table of organization and employment 60 of whom are lawyers

01:00:54.220 especially recruited to get nixon the top 17 lawyers for a burglary

01:01:03.900 well over possibly knowing about a burglary you could the burglars should have been punished

01:01:09.820 the issue is who else could we get how could we expand a third-rate burglary that's what it was

01:01:16.620 called in the beginning dismissed how could we expand that to void the most popular president that

01:01:25.900 we've ever seen in in an election so i want to i want to get that you put i mean you actually

01:01:31.420 participated in that whole process personally as an attorney well not getting nixon but defending

01:01:38.300 i'm aware defending um but you had a front row seat to all of that but i just want to linger for

01:01:43.180 one moment on the question of the press so i'm i don't know what bob woodward is doing this week

01:01:49.020 but i'm sure he's participating in some sort of commemoration of his heroic role i'm sure he is

01:01:53.340 i'm sure he is they're celebrating the strong power of the press and carl bernstein who is like an idiot

01:01:59.660 um i know him well i know them both but bernstein like i don't even know how i mean that's all he's

01:02:04.620 ever done with his life is watergate yes um i still don't understand the one thing i can assess

01:02:12.140 having worked in journalism for over 30 years is it's incredibly weird that they got the story

01:02:17.420 it doesn't make any sense to me from my knowledge of how news organizations work so woodward and

01:02:23.260 bernstein were really young um bernstein had been a reporter for a number of years a few years

01:02:29.100 woodward had not been he was a naval intel officer working at the pentagon sent on a couple of occasions at

01:02:34.460 least over to the nixon white house to deliver things to do briefings yes um and then within

01:02:40.140 like months winds up at the washington post yes with no journalism experience at all no and then

01:02:46.140 winds up with the biggest story in the modern history of journalism well and if you go what is

01:02:51.020 that that's just not that's bullshit that's not plausible if you want to go back and and really look

01:02:56.620 at it on bob woodward he starts out as number two bernstein is the lead name bernstein is the more

01:03:03.020 experienced guy yes definitely and woodward doesn't know how to write okay he just put a naval intel

01:03:08.380 officer but woodward has this connection with the individual who later is called deep throat

01:03:16.540 and we're told that woodward has a source of inside information that fuels their stories now he and to a

01:03:25.260 lesser extent carl are credited with being the greatest investigative reporters of all time yes but all they did

01:03:33.260 was leak information that the fbi had already gathered that's not investigative reporting we've

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01:05:39.020 so it's the second part of your sentence that really gives me pause it's like the fbi is a law

01:05:43.820 enforcement agency their job is to investigate crime and to you know help prosecutors punish

01:05:50.700 the guilty but that's not what they're doing here they're acting as a political tool well it's uh it's

01:05:57.820 one guy he's later called deep throat but it's mark felt who's a deputy director deputy director and he

01:06:05.180 thinks he should have been named director to succeed j edgar hoover but nixon didn't do that he named pat

01:06:13.740 gray former head of the civil division at the department of justice as acting director so pat gray is a

01:06:24.220 useful idiot uh and mark felt sets out to undermine him at every turn in the road

01:06:31.020 so pat grace is staffed by mark felt mark felt starts leaking stuff to bob woodward to undermine

01:06:41.740 felt as leader of the fbi so he can take it over so he can take it over that's his dream that's his

01:06:47.260 purpose he says so now woodward when they do the book they don't want to admit this all came from the

01:06:56.460 fbi well because it's so dark at that point then it is a deep state coup against the president yes but

01:07:01.500 it also undermines the narrative the popular narrative that it was nixon and nixon's people

01:07:08.620 somebody on nixon's white house staff who was leaking to woodward one of the great disservices of all time

01:07:15.660 well because it's a completely different story if it's someone in nixon's political circle or one of

01:07:20.460 his white house staff you bet it's a man of principle who can't abide it anymore his conscience won't

01:07:25.740 allow him to participate he has to tell the truth about the crimes he's seeing if it's the fbi doing

01:07:30.220 it totally different once again it's a coup by permanent washington against an elected official

01:07:35.020 it's a subversion of democracy and for 30 years bob woodward actively supports the idea that deep

01:07:45.020 throat is on the nixon white house that's lying that's lying in line it's worse than line you can see

01:07:50.620 it with your own eyes i don't know if you've watched the movie recently no uh all the president's

01:07:56.140 man but you know robert redford and dustin hoffman woodward and bernstein are on the steps of the u.s

01:08:03.100 capital of the library congress they're out of leeds they don't have any place to go and woodward says

01:08:11.500 i have a friend at the white house and all of a sudden they start moving again they're getting more

01:08:16.540 information they're back in in control next scene or scene after that uh uh woodward calls deep throat

01:08:27.580 at his office deep throat said never call me at the office he's in a public phone booth remember those

01:08:33.660 glass phone booth very well in front of the old eob right where blair house is yes exactly and he's

01:08:41.020 looking up at the old eob when he's talking to deep throat and deep throat says don't call me here

01:08:48.540 but it's the implication is there's no question where deep throat works he works in the old eob

01:08:55.100 and then there's another scene where deep throat goes to pulls out at night to go to a rendezvous

01:09:02.140 at midnight in some basement garage parking garage and hal holbrook is playing deep throat and there's

01:09:08.940 there's this gorgeous shot from the floorboards up and it's deep throat in the shadows pulling out

01:09:17.420 from the northwest gate of the white house to go do the meeting so there are three open and shut

01:09:25.260 indications he's on deep throats on the white house staff absolute fraud because the truth would ruin

01:09:33.340 the narrative well but and and not just the narrative the story against nixon but it would

01:09:38.620 also raise questions about who runs the government yes i mean the promise of our system is that the

01:09:43.420 people rule it's their country and in order to enact their will they elect their representatives

01:09:49.660 up to and including the president and the real story of watergate tells a very different tale about

01:09:55.660 who runs the country which is that the people with permanent jobs accountable to nobody unfireable

01:10:01.340 have all the power well then there's then there's the the idea that deep throat i'm sorry that bob woodward

01:10:08.780 took it upon himself to interview grand jurors absolute foreboding because a grand juror complained

01:10:15.500 to the prosecutor and said we've been approached by these reporters woodward denies it bernstein denies

01:10:22.380 it uh they send and they were asked directly absolutely they send edward bennett williams to see judge

01:10:29.980 sirica the most famous lawyer in washington owner of the redskins uh counsel to the washington post

01:10:35.500 and the democratic national committee a very very good lawyer okay he goes to see judge sirica his best

01:10:43.420 friend judge sirica has asked edward bennett williams to be godparents to sirica's daughter sirica is

01:10:51.900 frequently at the owner's box for the redskins game i mean the the owner's box is 50 seats so uh uh

01:10:59.420 edward bennett williams knows how to use power he goes to see sirica and said you know they tried but

01:11:06.380 they didn't really interview a grand juror no harm no foul don't punish them 2014 a guy is doing a

01:11:16.940 biography on ben bradley editor of the washington post gives him access to his records he finds in

01:11:24.300 bradley's files seven page typed memo by carl bernstein describing his interview with the

01:11:32.540 grand juror open and shut proof not only did they interview a grand juror but the post management

01:11:41.580 knew it you don't know for sure if edward bennett williams knew it but ben bradley knew it so the

01:11:48.140 reason that you don't interview uh not allowed to talk to grand jurors is because it can influence

01:11:53.820 the process yes of indictment so um what you have here is the news organization the washington post

01:12:01.260 ben bradley woodward and bernstein not only lying about what they did but inserting themselves into

01:12:08.300 the legal process you bet well that's like and when this the most immoral thing you can imagine

01:12:13.740 when this author jeff himmelman uh the book's called yours in truth describes it chapter and verse

01:12:20.140 2014 he approaches woodward and says can you explain this and woodward says you print that and i will

01:12:28.140 ruin you you you do anything about that and you'll never work in this town again threatens the guy over

01:12:36.460 the truth coming out about him illegally approaching a grand juror can i just add this ken this is a

01:12:43.180 sidebar but i it's interesting to me woodward for the last 50 years has remained kind of at the very

01:12:50.700 top of journalism in washington the hero he is a hero truly yes he's a fraud he's an utter fraud and it's

01:12:58.940 proven that he's a fraud so how you know why is every i think every president since nexon maybe not

01:13:04.940 jimmy carter or gerald ford but the rest have all sort of sat with bob woodward talked to bob woodward

01:13:10.540 their whole staffs have talked to bob woodward and you know why why because woodward's going to do a

01:13:15.260 book okay whatever the book book on the supreme court book on the cia right and he says in no

01:13:20.460 uncertain terms if you refuse to talk with me i will ruin you in the book so you got a choice fella

01:13:29.900 either you talk to me or i write about you without presenting your side so how is that different

01:13:35.900 from what the mafia used to do the mafia literally killed people yeah woodward kills reputations let me

01:13:46.460 show you one other thing if i could and then we'll go from there um bob woodward secures the first

01:13:54.140 interview with the recently departed special prosecutor whose name is leon jaworski he's the

01:14:01.100 second special prosecutor he didn't want to be special prosecutor he wanted to go back home to texas

01:14:08.300 so when the cover-up trial is still going on but the jury has been sequestered he tenders his resignation

01:14:16.060 he saw it through uh nixon being named a co-conspirator nixon resigning nixon being pardoned by ford

01:14:23.980 time to go home the first interview after he leaves is with bob bob woodward and we have bob's typewritten

01:14:32.940 notes of that interview and in the second sentence i happen to have it with me right here because i i

01:14:41.660 work off the written record the second sentence of his notes says quote says there were a lot of

01:14:50.540 one-on-one conversations that nobody knows about but him and the other party but that's a bizarre

01:14:59.580 thing for the special prosecutor to say how did you succeed well there were a lot of one-on-one

01:15:06.700 conversations with somebody that nobody knows about he was talking about the multitude of secret meetings

01:15:15.340 he had had with judge sirica we didn't know it at the time wait i'm sorry to ask you to pause but

01:15:21.980 since you're a harvard law school graduate you'll know the answer how can one side in a criminal

01:15:27.340 proceeding meet secretly with the judge oh they can't it's just it's just absolute per se violation

01:15:34.540 if you're caught if it becomes public you met with a judge without the other side being present

01:15:39.980 you are off the case you might be disbarred and the judge will be prevented from hearing that case

01:15:46.780 and he may be impeached it is a okay so it's not it's not just a technical violation it gets to the

01:15:52.940 core of it's huge fairness in the goes to the core of due process goes to the absolute core of due

01:15:58.620 process and what i've uncovered holy smokes what i've uncovered is written proof of at least 10 secret

01:16:07.100 meetings between prosecutors and judge sirica judge sirica was a terrible judge the most reversed in

01:16:15.980 the dc circuit a petty tyrant who knew nothing about the law he was not a bright man naturally time

01:16:23.740 magazine named him man of the year because he was reversed most often for violating defendants rights

01:16:30.940 and you're sitting there saying you mean to tell me you met with the other prosecutors

01:16:37.180 the prosecutors wrote uh descriptions of their meetings with judge sirica but wait i mean that's

01:16:44.780 just absolutely nuts and that was never reported by anyone oh no in fact what happened was the three

01:16:52.140 top prosecutors left early they left before the cover-up trial was over and they took their records

01:16:59.900 with them they're sensitive files and they didn't start to surface until 2013 well after these guys died

01:17:10.140 and they they ended up at the national archives and i happen to be researching i've spent 27 000 hours

01:17:19.260 researching the watergate prosecutions reading every document pursuing every possibility

01:17:25.420 and i was the first to see what turned out to be leon jaworski's confidential watergate files

01:17:34.460 and they describe unbelievable things they describe secret meetings with the judge they describe

01:17:40.780 political decisions that we're going to indict republicans on very very flimsy evidence and not invite

01:17:48.540 democrats on super strong evidence because if you invited democrats that would ruin the narrative

01:17:57.340 i mean the big case if i could just two two names chuck colson was perhaps nixon's fiercest defender

01:18:04.860 but he wasn't involved in the cover-up so the prosecutors come in for a review

01:18:10.380 and the lead trial guys who want to indict everybody they said we want to indict colson name him in the

01:18:17.740 comprehensive cover-up indictment and and the question is asked well what are the odds of conviction

01:18:24.060 well he's not that involved the odds are about 50 50 and one of the other lawyers says well you can't do

01:18:30.540 that that's not the standard for indicting somebody that's the standard for saying there's probable cause

01:18:38.300 but we don't we at the department of justice do not let people get indicted unless we're very confident

01:18:46.620 that a jury knowing what we know will convict 50 50 is not good enough and then they go on to a guy

01:18:55.580 named but they indict him anyway and he went to prison oh he was convicted open and shot he pled guilty to

01:19:02.460 the plumbers case so he wouldn't get sentenced by maximum john sirica in the cover-up case and after

01:19:12.220 that sirica announced no more plea deals all gotta come through me because i am the avenging angel i will

01:19:22.300 have justice in my court due process be damned sounds like sirica was a democratic partisan well he was

01:19:30.300 named by eisenhower as a republican but he acted as a democrat throughout edward bennett williams was

01:19:38.620 his best friend his career mentor and as i say the council to the dnc and the dnc and the washington

01:19:46.380 post and sirica was a frequent occupant at the owner's box or the redskins games and and edward

01:19:53.260 bennett williams and his wife were godparents to sirica's daughter it's also crazy oh it's not it's

01:19:59.740 absolutely nuts but it's so recognizable it's it it's a city that i recognize having spent my life

01:20:05.340 there but it's all where everyone knows everybody and everybody's sort of intertwined in that you know

01:20:10.620 media politics government one industry one industry and really and everyone's kind of serving the same

01:20:16.540 master and has the same instincts of self-preservation so these but it's crazy that the whole country could

01:20:22.620 have watched this and i guess the news coverage didn't reflect any of this when the urban committee

01:20:29.660 gave john dean immunity and he agreed to testify against nixon they had every reason in the world

01:20:37.980 to have john dean portrayed as an innocent whistleblower and they did a very good job at it

01:20:44.460 he alone arrives to testify and he has a 240 page statement now normally they say thanks put that in

01:20:54.060 the record summarize it in the next couple of minutes we'll get to our questions john dean was allowed to

01:20:59.740 read his entire 240 page statement it was not passed out in advance republicans had no chance to look at it in

01:21:10.060 advance and he started at two in advance and he started at two in the afternoon so when he was through the committee

01:21:15.740 adjourned no cross-examination no opportunity to ask what on earth he was doing so dean's reputation is made as

01:21:26.300 an innocent whistleblower now the urban committee bears striking parallels to the j6 committee of today

01:21:34.780 democrat dominance four to three no other topic to look into except the 72 campaign not 68 not 64 not 60

01:21:48.460 oh no we don't want to go back that far and nixon had no there were three republicans but no defenders

01:21:56.220 on the committee right one of the senators low weicker of connecticut went on the committee for the avowed

01:22:02.220 purpose of sinking richard nixon right and he later became effectively a democrat absolutely so they

01:22:08.300 always tell you it's the most important election of your lifetime but of course this one actually

01:22:12.700 is that's demonstrable and it's also because it is so important being censored at every level by the

01:22:17.660 tech companies so we were thinking about this a couple of months ago and we thought why not get on

01:22:21.420 the road live in front of actual people live audiences coast to coast a nationwide tour where we

01:22:27.820 can't be censored that'd be good it would also be fun so we're doing it we're going to be on stage

01:22:32.540 with some of our friends some of the most fascinating people we know the most recognizable people we know

01:22:37.180 responding to what is happening in america this september in real time it'll be just like the

01:22:43.660 podcast but it's going to be live so we're excited to announce our friend larry elder is coming to join us

01:22:49.180 in milwaukee wisconsin our friend john rich will be there with us in sunrise florida we're adding more

01:22:54.300 stops we just added another stadium show in redding pennsylvania we'll be joined on stage by alex jones

01:23:00.300 they tell you what alex jones is like have you seen him in person you should make up your own mind

01:23:05.260 it's going to be fun as hell and interesting and intense and we hope you will join us go to

01:23:10.620 tucker carlson.com right now to get your tickets see you there

01:23:27.980 um lowell p weiker my former neighbor in washington um and howard baker of where in washington in

01:23:34.620 belhaven actually well uh john dean owned a townhouse in old town yeah on quail quay street

01:23:42.940 uh weiker owned a townhouse two or three doors up he bought dean's townhouse to get dean enough money

01:23:53.180 to enable dean to relocate to beverly hills i have the deed from john dean to lowell weiker

01:24:01.500 not beverly hills alexandria beverly hills california beverly hills california so

01:24:07.260 weiker describes in his book he's walking out from a restaurant he said dinner with dean

01:24:12.700 and he says what else can we do you know to ruin nixon dean says his taxes

01:24:19.740 dean had his taxes because he was counsel to the president magically they leak whole new

01:24:28.380 investigation did richard nixon pay properly pay taxes just unbelievable so it really is like having

01:24:36.380 liz cheney on the committee it is absolutely now now go back i wish i'd understood all of this during

01:24:44.540 the january 6th well as well yeah but it see you you would be making points nobody would believe

01:24:52.220 i mean as we started out this discussion the special prosecutor the top 17 lawyers all worked together

01:25:00.380 in robert kennedy's department of justice this was a constitutional inversion where the people who lost

01:25:08.220 power with nixon's election 1968 suddenly are in charge of investigation and prosecution they announce

01:25:17.580 at their first press conference they will investigate every allegation of wrongdoing about nixon since he

01:25:25.420 took office in 1969 so what we originally characterized as a third-rate burglary uh maybe so

01:25:34.620 uh suddenly had been used as the uh suddenly had been used as the bootstrap to launch investigations of

01:25:42.460 every aspect of the nixon administration just unbelievable and they ruined it wait well they

01:25:48.540 certainly did um the first 17 how many lawyers were there 60 how 60 lawyers working full-time on this

01:25:57.980 especially recruited because they hated nixon uh archibald cox is the first special prosecutor he's a labor

01:26:06.060 lawyer from harvard he hires as his first hire james vorenberg who teaches criminal law vorenberg does

01:26:15.900 two things he says i'm going to staff this place and i'm only going to hire people i know so we don't have

01:26:22.380 to worry about full field investigations we got to get this thing up and running and i'll take back

01:26:29.020 in other words background checks yeah background check don't have time for that yeah i'll take

01:26:33.980 responsibility for keeping notes of how things unfold so i can write the report when we're done because they

01:26:42.860 didn't know they'd win so he takes notes at every staff meeting and by hand he takes them back to harvard

01:26:52.380 they didn't become available to public researchers until 2015 how how is that that's well harvard didn't

01:26:59.660 make them available i'd go up i'd go say good they're at the harvard uh treasure room in the harvard

01:27:05.900 law library i know the director well and i would say where are his papers he's dead he's died a long time

01:27:12.380 ago and i had a sentence in my second book and i said harvard won't won't disclose and i called up to be

01:27:19.580 sure the footnote was still valid and they said oh we just opened them so i went up may i ask you

01:27:26.300 again who makes that decision beats the heck out of me somebody these are all i mean these were lawyers

01:27:32.700 being paid for with tax dollars correct oh absolutely on government time right well you know so why does harvard

01:27:40.860 have a right to keep documents produced at our expense secret in their archive like i don't i don't get

01:27:46.780 that at all well on the harvard story i came down and told the archives they got these records

01:27:53.500 and the archives is chicken to go challenge harvard go demand those papers harvard likes

01:27:59.500 the national archives federal archives federal archives now jaworski's papers he took them back to texas

01:28:06.780 you aren't supposed to take papers tucker you're absolutely right well i think trump got indicted

01:28:10.860 for that uh well i think he did but but joe didn't see you see how that works out trump did but joe didn't

01:28:18.140 that that's kind of like watergate yeah i say we say lawfare didn't start with trump the origin of

01:28:27.420 lawfare was watergate where every decision was made against nixon and his people i told you chuck

01:28:34.220 colson who should never have been indicted well howard hunt's lawyer bill bitman was a very

01:28:41.500 prominent democrat a democrat icon he's guilty as hell he was running the cover-up from the lawyer's

01:28:48.060 point of view never indicted and and and in the notes in the meetings where they're making those

01:28:55.180 decisions the prosecution team says he's guilty as hell and leon jaworski who's a texan a lyndon

01:29:04.060 johnson protege says no if we indict bitman it'll ruin him you've got to be positive that he's guilty

01:29:13.420 before i'll sign an indictment in light of what he's done it's in the notes in light of what he's done

01:29:21.740 for us as democrats i don't want him indicted so again open and shut in writing documents showing

01:29:31.020 political persuasion on who got indicted and who doesn't so i'm i'm just fascinated by the idea

01:29:37.900 there were 60 lawyers paid for by taxpayers i have their names in my first book who are some of them

01:29:44.940 right they're not famous none of them went on to well no there are famous members of our class

01:29:51.260 but they weren't involved in watergate kimba wood is a uh second circuit

01:29:56.380 judge kimba wood was a nominee to the supreme court yes no be the attorney general i'm so sorry

01:30:03.020 prettiest girl you've ever laid eyes on bill bill clinton and then luke kaplan luke kaplan is the one who

01:30:10.140 recently decided the uh uh carol jane defamation case where the the assessor was 80 oh he's and he

01:30:18.140 was one of the 60 lawyers no he's in my harvard law school oh i'm sorry no no no i'm we're trying

01:30:25.660 to get famous lawyers no i mean bill bill will now this is a perfect example of what happened to me

01:30:32.620 bill weld's in my class or within a year or two when i would go out and crew you know row for

01:30:39.100 relaxation on the charles river i'd check the shell out of the weld boathouse oh yeah there are three

01:30:46.140 buildings on the harvard campus named after weld he is the 18th weld to attend harvard and here comes

01:30:54.860 jeff jeff from nowhere out of whittier college and uh irvine ranch i mean just uh uh thrown in the

01:31:04.700 lion's den with the preppies and the guys who went to the white shoe schools oh not the preppies

01:31:11.100 not like you so can i but i just ask the weld is a buffoon uh unfortunately um sad buffoon but

01:31:21.820 to the to the 60 i just can't believe there were 60 lawyers on this case against nixon that just seems

01:31:28.780 like an extraordinary large number of lawyers well they stopped announcing them uh the reason i was able

01:31:35.420 to piece it together is they show in their report the names of the staff but they don't include

01:31:42.700 whether they were a lawyer or not so you've got to google each and every name and see if you can come

01:31:48.700 up with uh somebody from harvard or yale and who were they all would you say democratic partisans well

01:31:55.900 they had to be to get hired there's one guy who's nominally a republican phil lacovara

01:32:03.500 uh uh but he's never been in a republican administration

01:32:09.820 it's very strange how could you say yes i'm a i'm a die-hard republican but you've never served

01:32:15.020 well you bring that guy in for the same reason you bring lose cheney in to say this is well except

01:32:20.620 except phil lacovara was number one in his class at columbia and is coming from the solicitor general's

01:32:27.100 office and is ranking number two and a half in the special prosecutor's office he takes his files

01:32:34.540 with him when he leaves now he's still alive he quits flamboyantly over the nick over the ford

01:32:41.260 pardon and he says i will not be a party to prosecuting nixon's staff when nixon got off scot-free

01:32:50.620 now that's a man of principle but he's the one that wrote the memo that said you can't indict chuck

01:32:55.660 colson on a 50 50 assumption of conviction he's the one that writes a memo i have all these because

01:33:03.100 he gave them back in 2020 gave them all the files he'd taken with him back to archives and i happened to

01:33:12.700 be having lunch with the archivist most responsible for the prosecutor's documents and he said oh we got

01:33:19.820 phil lacovara's papers and i said do you need a foyer request i'd love to look through them he said

01:33:26.140 you don't have to he just gave them to us we've got them now when you look at them and you get to look

01:33:31.580 at the originals you know i'm not going to destroy anything it's obvious they've been stored in the

01:33:36.700 basement somewhere because the staples have rusted a little bit and stained the paper so they've gone

01:33:44.620 through it and they've they've made photocopies so you're not looking at the actual originals but he

01:33:50.460 has one memo in there saying we just got the dissent on the effort to get sirica thrown off the case

01:34:01.420 and it's a good dissent and i'm really worried about that issue the issue of recusal

01:34:07.420 we should never have let sirica name himself to preside over the second trial but since we've

01:34:16.060 crossed that bridge there's no no turning back now so you can say in writing even the top prosecutors

01:34:25.180 knew sirica should not have been allowed to appoint himself to preside over the trial when he did we

01:34:33.900 objected we took it up on appeal he's too tainted you can't use him and the aclu submitted an amicus

01:34:42.620 brief the american civil liberties union and said we put this brief in because the defendants deserve

01:34:49.820 an unbiased judge and they've asked for a hearing on whether sirica has met privately with the

01:34:57.980 prosecutors now we know he'd met at least seven times with these prosecutors he'd met with cox he'd

01:35:07.020 met with silbert he met with jaworski it's absolutely crazy well it's absolutely crazy that they wrote

01:35:11.900 memos about it and we went up to the court and said we got to have this hearing and the court rules this is

01:35:19.740 the dc circuit without allowing the opportunity for oral argument in a per curiam that's unsigned

01:35:30.380 one sentence holding motion denied cannot have an evidentiary hearing at that fix is in you know why

01:35:38.140 the fix was in it just it gets it gets worse and worse archibald cox the first special prosecutor

01:35:45.100 became so worried that sirica was doing these crazy rulings on behalf of the prosecutors that

01:35:53.740 they'd win at trial but lose on appeal he was the most reversed judge on appeal because of his ignorance

01:36:03.980 uh unacceptability of defendants rights so cox goes to see the chief judge of the dc circuit david baselon

01:36:13.260 and he says i tell you what there's five liberals on your court and there's four non-liberals it's a

01:36:21.820 nine-man court the normal appeal will be heard by three judges that's how we do appeals you're

01:36:28.140 guaranteed an appeal but it's three judges we could end up with two republicans and maybe sirica would be

01:36:36.540 overturned these are crazy rulings but if you hold all hearings on sirica's cases in bunk the whole nine

01:36:46.060 judges then you'll always be in control and sirica can always be upheld okay so you can look at the 12

01:36:55.820 criminal appeals from judge sirica never before or since in any federal court in our nation's history

01:37:03.580 they're all heard and bonk from the very outset never done before so all nine judges hear every

01:37:12.940 one because the partisan breakdown guarantees that sirica will be upheld every time you've got it

01:37:20.220 and baselon what was his role was that his suggestion he's chief judge well cox goes to see baselon

01:37:26.220 okay now what adds spice to life baselon corrupt that sounds like a corrupt conversation it's absolutely

01:37:32.940 corrupt but what adds spice to life is the law clerk is in the room the law clerk hears this conversation

01:37:42.940 how to stack the deck on appeal okay baselon doesn't agree but he follows through later when the appeals come

01:37:51.900 that law clerk told one person nears we can reconstruct this has been a lot of effort

01:37:58.300 one person and that person was about to be sworn in to the dc circuit and he said you know there was

01:38:07.180 this one time when the court corruption really came through that judge told me that story and he told me

01:38:15.740 that story on june 17th 2008 in the lobby of the metropolitan club my book was coming out that day

01:38:25.340 and i happened to run into the judge good friend i'll tell you his name in a minute good friend and

01:38:31.100 and he was going to come to the book launch to which was being held at the spy museum i mean my first book

01:38:38.220 was going to be fun and he and he said you know what happened what happened is cox went to see baselon

01:38:46.940 and told him how to stack the deck and i said by god that's the missing link and he said what do you

01:38:53.660 mean i said well i've got all these crazy decisions by sirica but he was always upheld on appeal and i

01:39:01.980 can't figure it out he said well now you do but don't quote me this is a this is a sensitive it was in

01:39:08.620 the lobby of the metropolitan club this is a private conversation i don't want the heat from telling you

01:39:16.140 that story so in 2008 referring back to 1973 or four four well no uh 73 73 yeah um and he's still worried

01:39:27.900 about it oh very much so now the then you don't want to reveal the guy is uh car first name might be

01:39:37.100 might be uh robert might be uh bob bill but his last name is car c-a-r-r and he was baselon's law clerk

01:39:45.580 the judge is larry silberman no way oh most prominent republican on the dc circuit he was deputy

01:39:57.500 attorney general during watergate's unfolding and larry and i talked every day regardless of the crisis

01:40:08.220 what a nice man he was oh what a wonderful person regardless of the crisis the white house has to

01:40:14.380 talk to the department of justice there's stuff that can't be put off and larry and i would kid

01:40:20.300 each other that we held the nation together during the worst days toward the end of of watergate talked

01:40:28.780 every day i begged larry to let me get somebody else who the the law clerk talked to his law school

01:40:42.060 roommate was on the dc circuit uh ginsburg richard ginsburg and larry said i've checked he didn't

01:40:48.860 tell ginsburg now what about his wife his wife was a lawyer if he told you he told somebody else

01:40:55.100 he said no didn't happen so i interviewed the wife didn't know a thing about it so i put it in the

01:41:02.860 book without soberman's wife no no no uh the law clerks yeah law clerk's wife so i put the comment

01:41:10.940 in the book without attribution that the fix was in years go by and my third book comes out and i go

01:41:20.460 down to see larry he's a good friend and i say larry what i want you to do is call up merrick garland and

01:41:28.940 tell him i know what i'm talking about that that the department of justice ought to look into this

01:41:32.940 stuff this this stuff i've uncovered is incredible he says i'm not talking to him i don't like what he's

01:41:38.460 done but i'll tell you what i'll do what you ought to do is have the federalist society put on a seminar

01:41:47.020 about this about what you've discovered and he's on the board and i said will you participate

01:41:53.100 and he looks off and he says yeah i'll participate in your seminar so we get ready and it's on film

01:42:01.500 it's available and he says now what do you want me to say other than the basil on event he's now

01:42:11.980 eager to get that on the record and we have it on film and he describes just what i told you

01:42:18.860 that the clerk was there the setup cox went in the setup and then he says now i've asked

01:42:25.580 today's clerk of court for the record you don't just move to go and bonk from the beginning

01:42:32.860 without a vote of the judges there's got to be discussion and i asked the clerk for the record

01:42:38.700 and he said the clerk took a long time looking and he came back and he said there's no record

01:42:43.100 i've never seen anything like this before in my life basil on just did it without notice to the

01:42:50.780 minority judges that is so corrupt for a prosecutor to rig the appeals process with a judge is just

01:42:58.940 africa i mean that's just next level yes so what role did hillary clinton then hillary rodham

01:43:05.500 play in watergate well there's a book the book is called uh uh the crime uh without honor the crimes of

01:43:17.020 camelot and the fall of richard nixon written uh in the 1990s by the former chief counsel of the house

01:43:25.740 judiciary committee and he describes terrible things about hillary clinton uh and and the one that i find the

01:43:35.260 most interesting she's a very recent graduate of yale law school hillary rodham and he says the

01:43:43.980 staffer running the impeachment inquiry john door was beholden to a professor at yale law school

01:43:51.740 burke marshall who was going to be ted kennedy's attorney general if he won okay so

01:43:59.260 hillary rodham was a recent graduate of yale and she was a go-between she was carrying messages

01:44:07.500 back and forth between these two people uh and and and she did things that were hugely political

01:44:14.860 for example the republican minority on the impeachment inquiry kept demanding comparability

01:44:22.300 what about acts by other presidents you say nixon abused power that he's responsible for abuse of

01:44:30.140 power what about other presidents how did they respond to allegations of abuse so hillary's assigned

01:44:38.140 the project she goes back up to yale and lines up the chairman of the yale history department c van

01:44:45.500 woodward and he gets four other history professors and they work round the clock to research and write up

01:44:55.900 every president from lyndon johnson back to george washington and how they interacted with the

01:45:01.660 congress and of course there's always tension between the two branches allegations of abuse

01:45:07.660 thomas jefferson won't build the submarine well that's abuse we gave the money you can't sequester

01:45:12.940 uh he wants to fire somebody well we like that body we don't want him to fire them so they produce

01:45:19.100 this manuscript which looks too good for richard nixon it says these tensions between the two

01:45:27.340 branches have gone on since its founding so they suppress it they do not share it with the republican

01:45:35.580 minority particularly a congressman wiggins out of california who was nixon's principal defender

01:45:42.460 on the house judiciary and this is a document produced with federal money oh absolutely without

01:45:49.500 question uh uh i i don't know that they paid them but hillary's trips back and all the communication

01:45:56.140 but it's part of it it's part of the the the judicial system it's part of our justice system well

01:46:01.500 yes but this is this is the impeachment inquiry by the house of course but this is not some freelance

01:46:07.100 project oh no oh no this is this is but they suppress it surely and it never comes up we decided it

01:46:16.940 wouldn't be helpful for them to see this stuff that's what uh rodino and hillary say months later the

01:46:25.900 professors are pretty damn proud about their work product you know they did this big study and they

01:46:32.060 publish it as a book out of nowhere i happen to have a copy of the book

01:46:41.260 responses of the president's to charges of misconduct

01:46:47.500 with c van wooder writing the introduction interesting um does that come out before nixon's

01:46:54.060 resignation oh after after after of course of course it comes out after it would have been helpful if it

01:47:00.780 had come out before so hillary clinton works for who technically she reports to john dore who is the

01:47:09.340 head of the combined impeachment staff uh i think there were 45 lawyers on the combined impeachment

01:47:18.300 staff i think they were specially hired by door uh the the person you want to read is a lady named renata

01:47:28.780 adler who who was on the staff at the time then went to a law school and then became a writer and she wrote

01:47:37.740 one article about the first year reunion of the impeachment staff and she said you know

01:47:45.100 it seems to me in retrospect it was something of a cover-up nobody told us about what came out under

01:47:53.580 the church committee the church committee was a watergate reform yes to look into the abuse and misuse

01:48:00.380 of the cia and the fbi they they looked at international and domestic uh and she says the only thing i can

01:48:08.220 think was we were part of a cover-up because we weren't told about any of that and that would have changed

01:48:13.740 everything and then there's another article she did when she was editor of new york magazine and she wrote

01:48:24.860 a book about the last great days of the new york magazine and she said in the book i refused to run a

01:48:32.060 review of john sirica's book because he was so corrupt and his son was working for news day and the new

01:48:41.260 new york times and others responded badly and pilloried her and so she licked her wounds and then she

01:48:48.700 published an article just dumping all over john sirica you know his parents were bootleggers he he uh

01:48:57.260 intentionally tossed the first 13 cases he was supposed to try under the volstead act uh he dropped out of

01:49:04.940 law school twice he was an organizer of boxing matches in the district when it was illegal uh he's just a

01:49:12.780 terrible terrible guy so if you want to know more sounds like a criminal well it does sound like he did

01:49:18.620 criminal activities he he said that nobody was more surprised than he was when he passed the bar he'd already

01:49:26.100 move to florida to resume his semi-pro boxing career and then he shows up he shows up as this petty tyrant

01:49:34.280 you know and he does all these really strange rulings as a judge he may as well have sat at the

01:49:41.300 at the prosecutor's table so what is this i mean this is also amazing i thought i knew a lot about this i

01:49:47.680 i didn't um as you've watched the criminal prosecution of donald trump as he you know becomes

01:49:56.620 a republican nominee have you have you noticed similarities between what you're seeing now and

01:50:00.760 what you saw 50 years ago yeah i i call them parallels but but it's it's it's uh it's just

01:50:06.140 unbelievable uh the parallels and and and and i i don't like to write about trump because i don't have

01:50:13.920 any in any inside information yes but the suspicion is there based on what i've proven about what

01:50:21.280 happened in nixon so the j6 committee j6 committee is loaded with democrats uh trump has no representative

01:50:31.340 on the committee nominal republicans but no defendant adam kinzinger they don't they they don't look at

01:50:38.220 why the capital was unguarded they started a certain point and go forward they've misplaced

01:50:43.900 or lost records that would would appear to be helpful to trump people but quote oh they're gone we

01:50:51.780 don't have those interviews uh uh the charges this is i i think this is astonishing just astonishing

01:51:00.220 uh the trump is tried in new york and and they got to get a felony in order to have an extended

01:51:10.040 uh statute of limitations uh statute of limitations you know this is the fix is in from the beginning

01:51:14.720 but defenders don't know the charge against trump until the prosecutor's summation at the end of the

01:51:22.340 trial yes you faked your your accounting but there has to be another felony and they didn't name the

01:51:30.940 other felony so today it's one of three doesn't have to be a majority of the jury that's why it's on

01:51:36.900 appeal the prosecutors decided in a secret meeting with sirica that the law was too unclear as to

01:51:47.960 whether you could indict a sitting president it's it's assumed today but there's no decision

01:51:54.780 so they decided rather than litigate that let's take all the evidence that we've gathered

01:52:01.800 to indict nixon send it to the house judiciary committee so they can impeach richard nixon now

01:52:10.940 there's different standards on on indictment only prosecutors have access to grand juries

01:52:18.420 grand juries are something like a star chamber uh uh it's conducted in secret your attorney can't be in

01:52:26.040 the room with you you can't put on your own evidence you can't cross-examine witnesses you don't know what

01:52:31.700 they said about you when you get there you don't know what they said about you when you leave so it is

01:52:38.000 a horror show if it becomes used for political purposes congress doesn't have access to a grand jury

01:52:46.800 so congress in its investigations is limited here's the specially recruited special prosecutors

01:52:54.700 and they say what we know the house judiciary can't find out we could only do it with a grand jury

01:53:02.620 now parallel to your grand jury operating in secret and it's got to stay secret forever

01:53:07.780 what the witnesses say you know what you what happens in vegas stays in vegas yes by federal law no

01:53:14.660 exceptions okay no no in essence no exceptions but when you go to prove that in court same evidence

01:53:23.040 the sixth fifth and sixth amendments come into play yes got to be sworn testimony got to be evidence got

01:53:29.600 to be cross-examination got to be a public trial got to be a jury of your peers all this stuff so it

01:53:35.520 balances out even though the grand jury is a holy terror particularly if you're called i've i don't know

01:53:42.480 if you have i've never been called in front of the grand jury but terrify you what the prosecutors

01:53:48.880 worked out brilliant was let's send our evidence up to the house judiciary committee and we'll call it

01:53:57.600 a presentment because the fifth amendment says you can't be charged a federal crime except by presentment

01:54:06.680 or indictment of a grand jury nobody's really sure what presentment means let's call it presentment we'll send

01:54:13.520 it up now for just for a second assume what the grand jury knows is garbage it's untested okay it it

01:54:22.000 shouldn't be and should never see the light of day if it's gonna it's got to have the counter tests but

01:54:28.320 they sent it to house judiciary and they say oh no gotta be secret can't be revealed to anybody so nixon's

01:54:36.560 his defenders don't know what he's been charged with kind of out of nowhere he's charged an unindicted

01:54:45.040 co-conspirator in the watergate cover-up both special prosecutors said publicly we would never do that

01:54:52.480 to nixon because he's named but he can't come into court to defend himself because he's not charged he's

01:55:00.560 unindicted but they did it anyway and they sent it up there to the hill secret accusations of what

01:55:08.120 nixon did to cause them to name him a co-conspirator that document is called the roadmap now the roadmap is an

01:55:18.040 outline of 55 pages fact john dean is named counsel to the president underline citation john dean's grand jury

01:55:27.580 testimony okay fact citation fact citation 55 pages but if you print out the citations mainly to watergate

01:55:39.300 tapes or grand jury testimony two reams of paper i tell you nobody read the citations they just took

01:55:49.180 the facts the facts they couldn't prove nixon had done anything wrong they couldn't prove that nixon was

01:55:59.580 personally involved in the cover okay so they lied they lied about it they faked their evidence and it wasn't

01:56:09.860 just until 2018 as a result of my court petition that beryl howell then chief judge unsealed the roadmap

01:56:21.300 so for the first time in 45 years we could learn what nixon was accused of having done

01:56:30.520 that justified his then his removal but at the time his indictment nothing short of incredible

01:56:38.780 and i'm the only one you know you you get the impression i've drilled pretty deeply in this

01:56:44.280 stuff i'm the only one that had the knowledge to go back through and check all the citations

01:56:50.260 and uncover way down in one of them they fake it but what's so interesting is like they removed the

01:56:57.720 president united states and nobody thought to demand an answer to the most simple question which is what

01:57:02.260 exactly did he do wrong yes that is absolutely 45 years to find out we were told it was there trust us

01:57:08.740 and move on now you know we spent the washington post yeah we spent a lot of time on this and it's

01:57:14.760 complicated as it can be we help is on the way the 50th anniversary is the 8th of of august and we're

01:57:22.620 we've produced and we're releasing an hour-long documentary that summarizes all this over the years

01:57:31.280 i've written three books uh one is concentrating on the kennedy people and how they orchestrated this

01:57:37.280 one is concentrating on the the leon jaworski's internal files that describe all these secret

01:57:43.960 meetings and one centers on the roadmap and the fact that the congress was lied to uh and and it's

01:57:54.220 complex and people can read the books but they really ought to watch the movie and the movie's going

01:57:59.560 to come out on our website www watergate secrets.com and so called the documentary uh watergate secrets

01:58:09.520 and betrayals orchestrating nixon's demise and it's narrated by john o'hurley and the genius is the guy who

01:58:18.440 wrote it george bugatti because he took my hugely detailed legal expressions and he put him into language that

01:58:28.480 americans can understand hit the high point so you can get an appreciation of what was going on now we

01:58:35.960 got there this is funny we got there because he wanted to produce a play on nixon's impeachment okay

01:58:44.760 and here's the playbill it played off broadway in august of 2021 and and if you think about it for a second

01:58:53.420 you reduce all my books to an hour and a half play you got to pick out the highlights and the words and

01:59:02.540 and and and be persuasive uh without taking up too much time now what we've done same thing same people

01:59:10.160 is produce a serious documentary on those documents and we started with a set of 24

01:59:18.560 24 that i put together for a production we did for the hoover institution about a year ago and they

01:59:26.100 are 24 internal memos that trace the the ex parte meetings which are terribly wrong the suppression of

01:59:36.740 evidence that would have been helpful to the defense the political naming of of defendants uh we only name

01:59:44.400 republicans we don't name democrats all laid out uh in these 24 worst memos and we took a selection of

01:59:54.700 that to put in the documentary can i ask you um thank you for saying that and i'm going to watch it

02:00:00.800 um i have two more questions for you both sort of broader questions less precise first is what

02:00:08.740 did nixon think of all of this do you have any idea he went to his grave not knowing what had been

02:00:15.200 done to him one of the great disappointments in life not even suspecting what had been done and so

02:00:22.840 did her lookman and haldeman so did to a large extent chuck colson chuck died much later but i've

02:00:29.980 uncovered what was simply not known now i i grant you your knowledge of and interest in the break-in

02:00:38.340 and it looks peculiar yeah good questions but that's not what sunk richard nixon what sunk richard

02:00:46.940 nixon was hugely biased lawfare the perversion of the criminal justice system designed to drive

02:00:57.500 nixon from office to avoid his re-election and and to imprison his top aides and and nixon didn't

02:01:03.920 understand that no no what did he think happened

02:01:07.380 i mean well i'll tell you what i thought and and maybe that's what he thought until i discovered

02:01:14.940 these documents i thought of watergate as a tragedy let me let me read you the definition of tragedy

02:01:20.940 greek greek tragedy okay uh uh in poetics aristotle's book he defines the ideal tragic hero

02:01:30.480 as a man who's highly renowned and prosperous but not one who is preeminently virtuous and just

02:01:37.100 whose misfortune is brought upon him not by vice or depravity but by some error of judgment

02:01:44.460 or frailty and then that's nixon and then the the uh there's the interpretation of shakespearean

02:01:51.760 tragedy which envisions a setting in which a moral order reacts violently and convulsively against

02:02:00.540 certain infractions from this reaction comes the calamity which befalls the hero frequently way out of

02:02:09.160 proportion to the infraction itself and within this calamity there is a dominating impression of waste

02:02:17.240 uh you could say that's that's watergate too and that's what i believed i thought he should have

02:02:23.920 resigned uh i i believe the the smoking gun said what was was properly interpreted as as being a part of

02:02:32.100 the cover-up uh and then i started discovering these documents and and you you i picture myself sometimes

02:02:40.820 as a monk you know sitting up on a high-topped desk in a monastery in the middle ages with a candle here

02:02:48.800 going through dusty manuscripts and discovering what we've been told is the opposite of what was written

02:02:57.480 down at the time the memos that i've uncovered are nothing short of incredible and and what distinguishes

02:03:04.880 my work from allegations from suspicions today is i've got this paper trail i mean nobody can refute

02:03:14.680 these documents are either at the national archives uh or released on on on on the web you can go read

02:03:21.520 them uh or up at harvard who would question harvard but they were handwritten for me they're handwritten

02:03:27.820 notes from uh uh from james vorenberg but did i mean did you ever speak to nixon after you left office

02:03:34.520 i did not i went out for his groundbreaking i went out for his funeral i decided it was better not to

02:03:43.300 remind him uh of my role on on his defense team now he remember i'm just a staffer i'm just a kid

02:03:52.400 right but he knew who i was uh there's this one happy sequence where uh jerry ford gets my name wrong

02:03:59.180 and nixon corrects him in the cabinet room on on on on on my name so i mean that's a pretty proud

02:04:05.280 moment uh there's another segment in the in the cabinet room when we have the republican leadership

02:04:11.780 up and and nixon is it gets an odd feeling every once in a while and he starts talking about these

02:04:19.700 really bright lawyers who are on the staff and jeff shepherd in particular is just he works so hard

02:04:25.580 and he's so bright and he goes on and on and on and tom corlogos uh recently passed away great guy

02:04:33.820 starts writing down this fake newspaper called leader news and he's got a picture it says shepherd

02:04:41.460 star rises enormously so he's got a handwritten shepherd with a crook and a sheep and a star and

02:04:48.320 it says president praises shepherd 40 times uh the cabinet is at risk shepherd's gonna get a

02:04:55.600 chauffeured car bigger office i mean just and it was embarrassing but it it sure stoked my ego i bet

02:05:02.360 it did so but nixon i mean i didn't know richard nixon um but i you know he did several interviews

02:05:10.680 famously with david frost but others where this came up and he seemed not very bitter about it or not

02:05:17.360 but that's self-control yeah uh you know one of the really interesting things about nixon he's he's

02:05:24.520 in the military he's in the navy goes to the front pacific and and he sets up a hamburger stand on this

02:05:29.820 kind of stuff but he plays poker and he comes home with ten thousand dollars of winnings from poker

02:05:37.380 that funds his first campaign okay now to be that good you got to be able to read people

02:05:45.920 and you got to prevent people from reading you and nobody writes about that they don't understand

02:05:52.880 and and for nixon it was self-control so he says i don't blame john dean for doing what he did the

02:06:00.380 guy brought down the presidency but he makes himself say that now on his final speech on the morning

02:06:07.900 uh where he's going to go out and get on the helicopter it's he's announced the night before he's

02:06:13.080 going to going to resign he's saying goodbye to his staff and i was i was there pretty bitter

02:06:20.540 because of that tape but he says you know you you just can't be bitter if you're bitter if you return

02:06:30.260 hatred then you lose and the hatred will consume you and at the time i thought it's just babble you

02:06:39.200 you know what do you say but he was being sincere he really believed that a couple of the truths if i

02:06:45.980 may nixon believed the truth was going to come out without question when he would allude to his

02:06:54.120 prosecution or exposure of alger hiss as a communist spy in 1946 47

02:07:02.080 his the the statute had run on his being a communist what botched hiss up was uh his perjured

02:07:12.600 testimony yeah so nixon would say from then on remember alger hiss anything you do don't perjure

02:07:21.740 yourself and in one of the tapes he says because then you got two problems you got the original

02:07:27.400 problem and you got the problem that you perjured yourself that's right so i know if people from the

02:07:33.700 re-election committee had come in which they didn't and said what do i do he was for god's

02:07:39.540 sakes don't lie you know that just digs you in deeper he was told by john dean after the after the

02:07:46.700 break-in that nobody on the white house staff knew completely clean they built their whole defense on that

02:07:56.720 he dean neglected to remind them about his meetings in the attorney general's office

02:08:02.160 yeah so they were they were nixon filled to the last day we could put out a statement saying i'm not

02:08:11.560 involved and neither are my two top lieutenants alderman and earlick when they knew nothing

02:08:16.800 but then the game changed and dean to get out to get out from under he says ah but there was a cover-up

02:08:24.860 i know there was a cover-up because i was running it and my word against theirs there's no taping

02:08:32.500 system with those guys but you should trust me i don't see how you protect yourself from that no

02:08:38.480 i mean and they were hated in the press well that and that's my last question and it has to do with

02:08:46.420 nixon um not just during watergate or after his 72 re-election but really for the scope of his career

02:08:53.260 going back to his the his case which i may be answering my own question but the hatred of

02:08:58.940 richard nixon um was like pathological i mean i don't know how many books hating nixon came out

02:09:05.940 nixon is a monster nazi evil this guy what was that why the monomaniacal hatred of richard nixon well i

02:09:14.020 i i let's hurry to today just for a second yes an assassination attempt yes worried there may be

02:09:20.880 more i don't think people thought somebody was going to take a shot at him they hated him

02:09:28.960 they blamed him they dismissed him as a criminal but he couldn't go out in public because because he was

02:09:36.840 so so disliked but i think they felt richard nixon the man was the cause of all their problems

02:09:45.020 with the dominance of the democrat party let me show you what i mean here's a a chart just to

02:09:52.800 restate what you said they believe that nixon was personally cause of their problems as well they were

02:09:59.000 they were fading in dominance okay okay so this chart shows the presidency and the control of the house

02:10:06.400 in the senate red is republican blue is democrat from 1932 right so that's going back to the first

02:10:14.920 years of the depression and what it shows roosevelt of course they they had three-fourths of the house

02:10:22.580 and senate roosevelt's re-elected four times uh and just when truman became president they won

02:10:32.260 republicans won for one session and when eisenhower was elected they won for one session those are the

02:10:38.360 red blocks at the bottom but then it reverted to total democrat control and the goldwater debacle

02:10:45.980 in 1964 gave the democrats two-thirds majority in both the house and the senate they ruled and who

02:10:56.360 interrupts that well richard nixon forget eisenhower he was a war hero he could have run as a democrat

02:11:03.300 who did his dirty work richard nixon you could believe i think wrongly but you could believe if

02:11:11.020 you were a democrat that if you could get rid of nixon the man he would all go back to democrat

02:11:18.340 dominance which is what it should be you know that's what they was in the way is what you're saying he

02:11:24.760 was certainly in the way now what they did my first book about the kennedy people they set out to have

02:11:31.980 three goals they wanted to ruin nixon and his people okay they wanted to stop the republican money

02:11:41.940 machine in those days republicans had all the money democrats had all the unions there was a campaign

02:11:49.820 committee set up in 1970 mid-year elections designed to elect more conservatives whether they were

02:11:57.260 democrats or republicans and they raised a fair amount of money the democrats investigated that a part of

02:12:06.100 what they were going to do and they sent fbi agents or irs agents out to interview 150 republican donors

02:12:16.400 to this 1970 group called the townhouse project because it turned out it didn't have a registered campaign

02:12:27.500 treasurer okay nothing to do with watergate at the time there was a federal law on

02:12:35.940 campaigns called the corrupt practices act of 1925 it wasn't enforced anymore the last prosecution was brought

02:12:45.440 in 1934 the department of justice testified in 1972 that they had a policy of non-enforcement but the special

02:12:56.180 prosecutors re-erected it sent their minions out scare the living bejesus out of donors now if the irs came to

02:13:05.700 see you as a prominent donor next time around you wouldn't play so they crippled the republican money machine

02:13:13.620 and then they launched investigations internal investigations of every single potential republican

02:13:21.460 candidate for president in 1976 who would run against they assumed ted kennedy so they had

02:13:30.580 jerry ford's full field investigations they didn't do them but ford had to be confirmed by both the house

02:13:37.780 and the senate it was the most thorough fbi investigation they had the investigation his uh vice president was

02:13:46.540 nelson rockefeller they had an investigation of nelson rockefeller what did that find what well the

02:13:52.520 allegation was the allegation was he had given money in support of mcgovern to throw the case on the

02:13:59.360 democrat side and they i mean you talk about there's records investigating this ford tossed rockefeller

02:14:08.220 and named bob dole as his running mate there's an investigation of bob dole uh and bob dole had

02:14:15.620 campaign irregularities and finally john connelly they indicted john connelly for campaign abuse

02:14:24.420 well bankrupted him in the end well they did and then and then there's ronald reagan governor of

02:14:31.680 california 3 000 miles away and there's no file on ronald reagan but there's a memo that i published i put in

02:14:41.240 my first book and and the prosecutor says i just want to follow up on our hallway conversation

02:14:48.080 and bring you up to date on where we are on the investigation of ronald reagan now i looked into

02:14:54.940 it remember ross perot very well he had what was it uh his his uh uh computer company uh e ets e something

02:15:05.920 eds he wanted contracts from medicare he got him process the stuff yeah and he asked congress for

02:15:15.800 help in getting those appointments to make his pitch he didn't get them first time around but he also

02:15:23.520 wanted california's because it was huge and the theory was he might have exercised undue influence

02:15:33.440 in trying to get the california contract we're just going to look into it just just because he might

02:15:40.780 be our opponent i mean you know you sit there it curls your hair so let me ask one last question i

02:15:48.060 said i would only ask one more but here's my last question so you show up in 1969 as a white house

02:15:53.500 fellow at the nixon white house yes it's less than six years after the murder of john f kennedy yes um

02:16:00.600 and you know you're in the building that kennedy worked in did anyone talk about that in 1969

02:16:06.280 through 75 when you left did anybody say you know i think this warren commission thing's a little weird

02:16:11.380 no that never came up in in my presence ever what we did talk about was nixon's absolute paranoia

02:16:22.540 that ted kennedy would emerge as his opponent in 1972 and they would steal his re-election

02:16:30.920 just like they stole 1960 but i can't remember a single conversation about the warren commission

02:16:38.300 how interesting even when jerry i know you you say you know jerry ford got named he was on the warren

02:16:43.400 commission was uh and of course the arlen specter single bullet theory is simply bizarre it is

02:16:50.420 bizarre simply bizarre rifle shooter i'll say that's just false but well yes on his cot in the

02:16:56.200 hospital but no discussion but remember i'm i'm very junior i'm part of a governance group of course no

02:17:05.320 no campaigning uh i'm hatched i never participated in any campaign and it's absolute fluke that i got

02:17:15.840 hired to do governance issues well and that's why you're still here unbowed you know that's why i

02:17:22.720 have a clearance letter from this but can i ask you so you say now i keep i'm violating my pledge not

02:17:28.500 to ask you more questions but okay this is the last one so you said nixon was worried that kennedy

02:17:35.060 would run against him in 72 instead of mcgovern and that they would steal the election as they had in

02:17:39.660 1960 yes two-parter is did nixon sincerely believe that the 60 election was stolen from him and did and

02:17:49.980 was it well he believed there were grounds for investigation uh and he was urged even by

02:17:59.240 president neisenhower to challenge the outcome remember it's illinois and the late ballots from

02:18:06.140 mayor daly and all the dead who vote sure in west virginia and yeah well that's where they bought

02:18:10.600 the primary yeah with with kennedy money in west virginia and texas where interestingly leon jaworski

02:18:18.200 leads the the defense and claims in texas there's no law there's no standing to come into texas and claim

02:18:29.560 that the election was stolen that's a that's a fascinating comment and and leon jaworski the

02:18:35.960 special prosecutor before before this is in 1960 right but but ultimately the the one who brought

02:18:42.540 down nixon yes was 14 years before leading the defense yes of jack kennedy's theft of the 1960

02:18:52.280 election in texas you know there's these currents and eddies leon jaworski was captured by his staff he

02:19:00.140 went in and wanted to conduct a fair criminal investigation that's what he was hired to do

02:19:05.340 and he actually writes a memo to his deputy and says this place has got one theme that nixon must

02:19:12.920 be reached at all cost those were his words at all cost i can't even work with a staff you guys are

02:19:20.120 having meetings before you meet with me so i only get one point of view i'm not going to meet with you

02:19:26.660 anymore and then he and then he gets rolled by his staff so we're asking for two things last last

02:19:35.300 answer okay we have a documentary the documentary details everything that that has been done it's not

02:19:42.540 thorough but boy it touches on the big stuff got three books three books contain all the documents

02:19:49.520 we're talking about and many more so what what do we want from this interview from knowledge that

02:19:59.200 cheating occurred we want two things one we want the department of justice to go in and disclose

02:20:07.060 what the grand jury was told to convince them to name nixon a co-conspirator

02:20:13.340 we've been demanding that since they did it for 50 years we've said tell us what you told the

02:20:22.820 grand jurors because we don't think you had anything on dick nixon maybe they won't do it okay you can't

02:20:30.700 compel that you can't compel them to answer grand juries love to help you son but grand jury

02:20:35.600 information stays secret forever okay that's the law but i thought i'm not a lawyer when i brought my

02:20:41.860 suit if i may when i brought my suit to disclose the roadmap and i prevailed the judge at the same

02:20:50.480 time said she was going to rule against my motion to disclose the grand jury testimony so the

02:20:58.260 department of justice called me and said we've been asked to prepare the order finding against you on

02:21:04.600 that part of your petition and i said but i'm not looking for a witness this is what the department

02:21:10.480 said so that was that was that was my question slash point i mean it's one thing to protect

02:21:14.260 yes what the grand jurors say they're citizens who've been brought in to affect justice one hopes

02:21:19.860 yes but there's no justification for keeping what government prosecutors say about an american

02:21:25.160 citizen why should that ever be secret right right right the judge chief judge told the department

02:21:32.200 she's going to rule against me so i said well i made the case begged them i said okay what if i withdraw

02:21:40.080 it so it there's not a decision against me there's just no decision and they eagerly accepted that so

02:21:47.360 today as we sit here we don't know what they told the grand jurors in accusing richard nixon of an

02:21:55.980 indictable offense pretty much everyone's dead i'm sure so like well yeah but we still want to know

02:22:01.040 second thing there is a post watergate reform at the department of justice a unit set up whose

02:22:09.160 only responsibility is to investigate allegations of wrongdoing by justice department lawyers it's

02:22:16.620 called the office of professional responsibility was founded the year after watergate okay not didn't

02:22:23.260 exist during watergate i learned about it about a year and a half ago i immediately filed asking for

02:22:30.980 a review of the prosecutors look what they did and i followed it up with 11 letters let me come down

02:22:40.940 and explain this is complex i got all the paperwork please let me come make the case one year passes

02:22:47.540 i get a letter thank you for your interest in the enforcement of the laws we it's been a long time

02:22:55.880 these lawyers aren't here anymore we're busy doing other things and we take no responsibility for the special

02:23:05.700 prosecutors because subsequent to the special prosecution force they enacted the independent counsel law

02:23:13.100 and we deem them to have operated under that the department of justice is simply not involved and i sent it's

02:23:22.560 posted on my website and i sent back a letter and i said here's your stationary for your letters and

02:23:31.600 your internal memos sane department of justice of course don't tell me you don't take so what we hope

02:23:38.700 to interest and anger the american public look at what we've uncovered watch the documentary read the

02:23:46.880 books go on my website and look at all the documents we hope there's a new administration

02:23:53.720 at the department of justice who's willing to look into this because if they look into it

02:23:59.200 you know it's open and shut well just disclose it just disclose it you you're good at looking into it

02:24:05.620 obviously absolutely true jeff shepherd i really appreciate your taking all this time and explaining that

02:24:10.780 this has been fun i appreciate the opportunity tucker thank you amazing thank you for having me on thank you

02:24:16.020 thanks for listening to the tucker carlson show if you enjoyed it you can go to tucker carlson.com to

02:24:22.420 see everything that we have made the complete library tucker carlson.com

The Tucker Carlson Show - August 08, 2024

Geoff Shepard： Watergate Was A Scam (And Now They're Scamming Trump)

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