The Tucker Carlson Show - Harmeet Dhillon’s War on the Discrimination Against White Christians and DOJ Corruption

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00:00:30.000 I think it's part of the promise of this administration under President Trump to reform the government in the way that the people voted for.

00:00:38.080 I did my week of training after getting confirmed by the Senate.

00:00:41.700 I was like, okay, guys, it's time to get to business.

00:00:43.520 I want everyone to be very clear what the agenda is here.

00:00:45.800 This catalyzed hundreds of lawyers to quit.

00:00:48.800 They had crying sessions in the DOJ.

00:00:52.340 They cried?

00:00:53.100 Brandon Johnson, mayor of Chicago.

00:00:55.360 Tell us how he appeared on your radar.

00:00:57.480 He said the quiet part out loud, which is, I hire mainly black people for the positions of authority. 0.98

00:01:04.360 That's the environment that produced Brandon Johnson, where you could just like openly be racist. 0.97

00:01:08.340 You know, I don't like Jews. 1.00

00:01:09.280 I don't like whites. 0.99

00:01:10.020 I don't like blacks. 1.00

00:01:10.620 Who talks like that? 0.98

00:01:12.140 $200 million in some cases is what it costs a city or a county to comply with a decade-long consent decree.

00:01:18.800 So, in the end, the lawyers get rich and more people get shot to death.

00:01:23.120 That is correct.

00:01:24.100 Wow, it's just so evil.

00:01:25.580 It makes you think, like, maybe we just burn the system down and start again.

00:01:28.800 Thank you, Harmeet.

00:01:51.320 So, your assistant attorney general, one of the greatest appointments, from my perspective, in this administration, running the civil rights division.

00:02:01.120 What was it like when you showed up?

00:02:02.860 What did you find when you got there?

00:02:05.280 Well, Tucker, first I'll say thank you for having me here.

00:02:08.140 The civil rights division is the sort of the color revolution wing of the Department of Justice.

00:02:14.560 You know, whether it's a Republican or a Democrat administration, there are career lawyers who are very focused on a particular agenda there.

00:02:25.620 And so, when I showed up or when the president was elected, I should say, there are over 400 attorneys in the civil rights division and about 200 staff.

00:02:35.100 So, a total of about 600 people.

00:02:36.780 And, you know, Kristen Clark, my predecessor, anti-police, you know, open racist, you know, got in trouble during her term for not being candid with the Senate during her confirmation hearings on some issues. 0.86

00:02:55.160 And so, she had a particular agenda.

00:02:56.900 She got in there and she pursued that agenda aggressively.

00:02:59.380 And she had all the staff to do it.

00:03:01.640 Now, under the first Trump administration, my predecessor in that job pretty much left it untouched.

00:03:09.280 You know, he told me kind of like there were career people there.

00:03:12.820 If you wanted to get something done, they went to the U.S. attorney's offices.

00:03:16.500 Well, you know, I came in with a different perspective.

00:03:18.900 I think it's part of the promise of this administration under President Trump to fundamentally reform the government in the way that the people voted for.

00:03:27.360 And so, that means in the civil rights division, we should be standing up for the civil rights of all Americans, not just some Americans.

00:03:35.200 We shouldn't be weaponizing the law in a particular way.

00:03:38.280 We should apply those federal civil rights statutes that many of which were passed by and signed by Republican presidents and Republican administrations evenly.

00:03:47.340 And the government shouldn't be putting its heavy thumb on the scale in most cases.

00:03:52.320 But in egregious instances, we should step forward and right these wrongs.

00:03:55.620 But what I found there was a number of lawyers, I mean, hundreds of lawyers who were actively in resistance mode.

00:04:04.720 You know, there were memos out there by former government lawyers telling current government lawyers in my department how to resist.

00:04:11.160 If you're given a direct order, ask for clarification, send 20 emails, question it, slow down your response time, say it can't be done.

00:04:20.320 And, you know, so I was actually looking out for that when I came and I did my week of training after getting confirmed by the Senate.

00:04:27.640 And then the next week I was like, OK, guys, it's time to get to business.

00:04:30.920 I want everyone to be very clear what the agenda is here.

00:04:33.100 So there are 11 sections in civil rights and I drafted memos for each of those 11 sections for the lawyers and telling them these are the statutes.

00:04:41.320 So, for example, Americans with Disabilities Act, this is a statute that we enforce or Title VII anti-discrimination or some of the other federal civil rights statutes.

00:04:50.960 And then that's the baseline and then this is the president's agenda.

00:04:56.380 These are his executive orders that he's put out there about anti-discrimination, about anti-DEI, about enforcing our laws equally.

00:05:08.320 And that's the job.

00:05:09.700 You are going to apply these statutes within the framework of anti-discrimination even-handedly and without fear or favor.

00:05:19.080 And this catalyzed hundreds of lawyers to quit the civil rights division.

00:05:26.300 Wait, they quit because you informed them of the law?

00:05:31.440 Yes.

00:05:32.180 And the law and the priorities.

00:05:34.220 Their pet projects had changed.

00:05:37.700 They weren't going to be able to do those the way that they wanted.

00:05:40.560 So they thought that this part of the Department of Justice was just immune to democracy?

00:05:45.800 It has been.

00:05:46.360 Like the elections just had no bearing on this?

00:05:48.620 It has been.

00:05:49.580 I mean, there were career lawyers there who were doing the same thing no matter who's the president.

00:05:55.680 And so suddenly their little fiefdom that had remained untouched like Shangri-La was suddenly having to be responsive to elections.

00:06:06.860 And so.

00:06:07.360 So that's the definition of the deep state, what you just described.

00:06:10.340 It really is.

00:06:11.040 Elections have no effect.

00:06:11.940 It's like there's no way to control these people.

00:06:14.460 They act totally independently from the democratic system.

00:06:18.100 I mean, that that's the problem.

00:06:20.200 Well, that's what I found.

00:06:21.420 And so, you know, in response to my memos, of course, it began leaking to the press.

00:06:27.880 Um, they began having unhappy hours, which they would invite supervisors, political supervisors to, to make their point that they were unhappy.

00:06:36.660 We got the point.

00:06:37.640 And, uh, they had crying sessions, uh, struggle sessions, crying sessions in the, uh, DOJ.

00:06:44.320 They cried?

00:06:45.280 Oh, there was, there was open crying in the halls.

00:06:48.100 Crying?

00:06:48.700 Crying.

00:06:49.420 Crying.

00:06:49.900 Yes.

00:06:50.160 And, and then one of my colleagues described to me, it was the last day, uh, a couple of weeks ago for some of them.

00:06:56.980 They lined up in a phalanx and approached the elevator together.

00:07:01.440 And then they left the building together, uh, you know, to show their solidarity for one another.

00:07:06.800 They're as if they were persecuted.

00:07:07.920 How old are they?

00:07:08.280 High school students or adults?

00:07:09.700 These are, these are 30, 40 and 50 year old career attorneys in the department of justice.

00:07:16.220 So.

00:07:17.280 Yeah. 0.99

00:07:17.760 It's pathetic. 0.99

00:07:18.100 It's, it's different. 0.97

00:07:20.200 You know, I come from the private sector, as you know, over 30 years in the private sector, 18 years successfully running my own law firm.

00:07:27.460 And, um, you know, you get to work and, and you, you put things together and if it's not working out, you change tax and you try something else.

00:07:36.060 But there's no, there's no accountability.

00:07:37.960 And so that, that really has been kind of an eye opener of dealing with that culture, but we're trying to change it.

00:07:43.980 There's, there are people left behind and I actually don't care what their politics are.

00:07:47.280 They can have their views.

00:07:48.740 I believe in the first amendment.

00:07:50.380 The question is, are you willing to do the job under the job description as set out by this administration?

00:07:55.800 After all, the DOJ is part of the executive branch.

00:07:57.860 So the president gets to pick the top, uh, people running it and he kind of gets to set the agenda.

00:08:02.980 So you, half your lawyers quit.

00:08:05.340 Yeah, that's right.

00:08:06.320 Who'd you replace them with?

00:08:07.960 Uh, so we are in a DOJ period here in the government.

00:08:11.720 And so I haven't replaced the people who've quit as yet.

00:08:14.920 So we're making do with who's left behind.

00:08:18.400 Um, some of whom share the views of the ones who, who left, but perhaps weren't as able to get jobs outside and some who I think are willing to work with us.

00:08:26.040 So, so my understanding was DOJ was going to be applied to like the fat in government, but like DOJ is kind of central, central institution in the country.

00:08:36.800 And having lawyers who can equally apply the law and sort of end lawfare, be honest and, um, principled.

00:08:45.680 That's important.

00:08:47.100 Oh, I think it's very important.

00:08:48.120 And, you know, I've spoken to the attorney general about it and I'm confident that soon we'll be able to, um, hire some lawyers who are down with the program of getting the job done for the American people.

00:08:59.120 So I'm looking forward to that troop coming in.

00:09:02.000 But for now I have some political appointees who are extremely dedicated and passionate.

00:09:07.720 Uh, I brought in lawyers of, of my vintage, quite a few experienced trial lawyers, um, and a few younger ones as well, but they're all dedicated to the cause.

00:09:15.720 And so together, just in a few weeks, we have already made a lot of news nationally going after, uh, the mayor of Chicago, for example.

00:09:23.260 So, so first of all, thank you for the, for, I was just thinking of you, I should say my former attorney and a great attorney.

00:09:31.160 Um, going in to run the civil rights division.

00:09:34.420 I mean, they must've just died when you showed up.

00:09:37.500 Um, well, I didn't witness any of that, but the, the crying, the unhappy hours, the mass resignations, the leaking, there's a support group for former civil rights attorneys.

00:09:50.040 These are all indications.

00:09:50.840 Yeah, these are all leading indicators of, uh, you know, the stages of grief.

00:09:54.920 And so one of the former attorneys goes on MSNBC regularly and, you know, kind of vents about the storied civil rights division of the DOJ is being destroyed.

00:10:05.400 Someone heckled me at the DMV when I was waiting to get my driver's license.

00:10:08.820 And so, you know, it is cutting to the core of the liberal ethos that we're actually trying to apply these civil rights laws, which I believe in, in an even-handed way.

00:10:18.480 Yeah.

00:10:19.540 Equally.

00:10:20.180 Equally.

00:10:20.600 Because we're all American citizens.

00:10:22.000 That's right.

00:10:22.460 Equal protection.

00:10:23.280 It means equal for all.

00:10:25.220 Yeah.

00:10:25.680 Yeah.

00:10:26.020 You would think.

00:10:27.320 Well, you would think.

00:10:28.160 And actually I'm, I'm laughing, but it's, it's, uh, it's terrifying what's been happening there.

00:10:33.100 And I'm just, I'm truly grateful that you're there.

00:10:35.720 So Brandon Johnson, mayor of Chicago, tell us how he appeared on your radar and what the response is.

00:10:42.760 Well, so first of all, I'm thankful for Elon Musk purchasing Twitter, which I sued a few times before he did that.

00:10:49.900 And now it's where I get a lot of my news.

00:10:52.500 Of course, you and everyone else.

00:10:53.740 And so I'm, I get criticized by the main, the lamestream media, if you will, uh, for being perpetually online, but that's actually where I see a lot of the civil rights violations in our country being exposed because people, elected officials in our country feel very comfortable, um, acting with impunity and stating with impunity that they're going to discriminate.

00:11:12.980 And so he said the quiet part out loud, which is in Chicago, according to his words, um, I hire mainly black people for the positions of authority.

00:11:25.000 And, you know, he, then he listed out, he was at a church and he was in.

00:11:30.100 At a church?

00:11:30.560 He said that?

00:11:30.880 At a church.

00:11:31.400 And, you know, I had a media, uh, reach out to me.

00:11:34.200 You had to yank their tax exemption. 0.98

00:11:35.640 That's freaking churches.

00:11:36.780 Well, I had a reporter reach out to me saying, how did this come to your attention?

00:11:41.320 I mean, as if it was some kind of secret, he had, I was like, I, I responded, well, the three angles of camera, I think suggests that it wasn't meant to be, uh, confidential or anything, but it wasn't like a, some kind of a sting operation.

00:11:53.580 He publicly said, I find, you know, people have a certain description to be better and, um, I want to help them build their businesses.

00:12:03.860 And so I'm giving them government jobs.

00:12:05.960 It's kind of counterintuitive.

00:12:07.380 And what that says and what I've been hearing since I came out and said, oh, really?

00:12:13.160 And then we opened up a federal civil rights investigation the following day into the hiring practices.

00:12:19.120 The following day?

00:12:19.720 The following day, less than 24 hours after I saw that video, um, my team, you know, stepped up and we've opened a federal civil rights investigation into the apparent violations of federal employment law that are occasioned by preferring one race over the other in, in hiring.

00:12:37.580 His predecessor, Lori Lightfoot said at a press conference, I'm not talking to white people.

00:12:41.760 I don't like them. 0.63

00:12:42.620 I'm not talking to them. 0.91

00:12:43.320 I'm not answering any questions from white reporters.

00:12:45.920 And no one did anything about it.

00:12:48.780 So that's the environment that produced Brandon Johnson, where you could just like openly be racist. 0.88

00:12:54.020 You know, I don't like Jews. 1.00

00:12:54.940 I don't like whites. 0.99

00:12:55.700 I don't like blacks. 1.00

00:12:57.140 No, who talks like that? 0.97

00:12:58.640 Well, Tucker, every university administrator in the United States, even in the face of, um, uh, the, uh, students for fair admissions case at Harvard.

00:13:07.200 So that's another project that we're dealing with at the civil rights division is, um, the absolute extent of the impunity with which campus administrators are continuing to discriminate and openly defy Supreme Court precedent.

00:13:20.500 So we've opened up numerous investigations, uh, into that as well, but it's a pervasive problem in our country that racism has become institutionalized to the point where people just feel comfortable saying, yeah, I'm sorry, you're a white man.

00:13:34.120 Um, thanks for playing and you, you don't get admission.

00:13:37.920 You don't get a job and you don't get to, you don't get to have equal opportunity.

00:13:41.660 Asians as well.

00:13:42.640 Um, there's this blatant discrimination and racism in our country and our job at the civil rights division for so long as I'm in charge of it is to eradicate that, take it on, make examples and put a stop to it.

00:13:56.640 Everybody wants freedom, but what is freedom exactly?

00:14:00.540 Well, here's what we know.

00:14:01.960 You can't have freedom if you don't have privacy.

00:14:05.040 1984, you may recall is a story about a total lack of privacy and a totally omnipresent government totalitarianism begins with no privacy.

00:14:17.620 The problem is if you use the internet every day and everybody does, then you don't have any privacy because it's all open data brokers and big tech are recording and saving everything you do online and then selling it.

00:14:30.820 Talk about invasive.

00:14:31.900 We've got two recommendations for how to restore privacy.

00:14:35.900 The first is trashing all your technology and going full Luddite.

00:14:38.780 That would definitely work.

00:14:39.920 Abandoning electricity.

00:14:41.060 I actually like that option.

00:14:42.880 Probably pretty hard for most people to do that, including me.

00:14:45.300 The second is to use a VPN.

00:14:46.980 The one we use is called ExpressVPN.

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00:15:52.120 Tucker says it best.

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00:16:51.320 Every time I hear someone in the administration talk about this, they frame it around Israel, which I find infuriating.

00:16:59.560 Not because I'm against Israel, but like what does Israel have to do with it?

00:17:02.660 They're discriminating against American citizens.

00:17:04.200 Why, from a public relations perspective, wouldn't it just be better to stick to the principle that in the United States, you can't use government money to discriminate against American citizens on the basis of race?

00:17:15.700 Like, why not just say that?

00:17:17.640 Well, I think that there is a certain strain of anti-Semitism that's unique that we are confronting, but it's American citizens who are the victims of it.

00:17:26.220 And so, religious discrimination is also illegal in our federal civil rights laws.

00:17:31.300 And so, where you have students who are wearing yarmulkes and they're being blocked by their professors and their classmates from entering their classes, that's illegal.

00:17:41.820 And we're just calling it that.

00:17:42.600 I know, but let's be, let's be real. 0.94

00:17:45.240 I mean, that's just silly. 0.53

00:17:47.240 Look at the numbers. 0.88

00:17:48.500 Are Jewish students, you know, what, 2% of the population?

00:17:52.620 Are there more than 2% at Ivy League schools?

00:17:55.900 Yeah.

00:17:56.900 White Christian students, you know, what percentage of the population are they?

00:18:00.580 30 something?

00:18:01.580 Are they 30%?

00:18:02.440 Not even close.

00:18:03.040 So, like, we could just reduce it to, but it's like you can't even say that for some reason.

00:18:10.000 I mean, the discrimination has been going on for 60 years against white Christians and the numbers show it.

00:18:17.520 So, like, do you know what I mean?

00:18:20.060 But I'm saying that.

00:18:21.200 We are saying that under my leadership and the people who I work with, they are taking it on frontally.

00:18:28.900 It's racism.

00:18:30.440 Yes.

00:18:30.720 It is racist.

00:18:32.220 It is illegal now under the Supreme Court's clear direction.

00:18:36.660 And Harvard is doing it and Princeton is doing it and all of these schools are doing it.

00:18:42.120 I mean, so there's many different kinds of discrimination happening.

00:18:44.980 There's foreign money coming into our campuses.

00:18:49.220 And, you know, there was a report recently that Stanford is basically under control of the Chinese Communist Party.

00:18:56.540 And so all of these problems are happening at the same time.

00:18:59.160 And, you know, they've been allowed to drift and people have been bullied and people are – I was explaining to someone the other day that to do this job correctly, you have to not care what people think about you at cocktail parties.

00:19:13.280 Well, clearly, but you're way past that.

00:19:16.380 But can I just ask, like, I guess what I worry about, just to put a finer point on what I was attempting to express, I'm – like, identity politics is just bad kind of no matter who's getting hurt and no matter who's benefiting.

00:19:28.300 It's just bad.

00:19:29.360 It divides the country.

00:19:30.420 Is there some way to just, like, deracialize the whole thing and just return to colorblind standards in admission, hiring, and contracting?

00:19:40.460 There is.

00:19:41.120 I mean, that's what our laws demand.

00:19:42.840 And so that's what the Supreme Court ruled in that one case.

00:19:46.240 But, you know, to take on the mayor of Chicago, we didn't do that four years ago.

00:19:55.880 We didn't do that under the Bush administration.

00:19:58.420 We just sort of – you know, people in power just sort of sat there and took it as if there was some need to atone for prior sins by discriminating against American citizens today.

00:20:11.440 And, I mean, you know, Asians are discriminated against in hiring in Silicon Valley.

00:20:16.860 I've taken on many cases of that and in universities.

00:20:20.800 What did these recent immigrants do to deserve discrimination other than being successful and then being punished for it? 1.00

00:20:28.420 And so you really can't right the wrongs of the past by being racist today.

00:20:33.940 I think we really have to have that level of moral clarity and just say that and operate that way.

00:20:39.720 Well, it's collective punishment is what it really is.

00:20:42.360 You're saying someone who looked like you did something bad, therefore I'm punishing you.

00:20:47.060 Or someone who looked like you was hurt, therefore you get the benefit now.

00:20:51.920 I mean, the whole thing is just like it eliminates the idea of the individual, of the individual, the unique human soul.

00:20:58.200 Right, which is counter to the very principles on which our country was founded.

00:21:05.660 The entire Enlightenment was all about individual rights and responsibility.

00:21:12.900 Yeah.

00:21:13.000 And we're engaging in, you know, Chinese communist level collective guilt and, you know, collective punishment. 0.85

00:21:22.340 It does feel that way.

00:21:23.600 It does feel that way and it feels that way on campuses.

00:21:26.080 It was, and I think back, I thought it was bad at Dartmouth when I was at Dartmouth more than, you know, 35 years ago, almost 40 years ago now when I went to Dartmouth.

00:21:33.580 And it's so much worse today in most of these campuses, but like calling it what it is, naming it as racism and discrimination is a start.

00:21:45.940 Now, we will follow through and we will bring cases.

00:21:50.440 I'm proud of our president for spearheading, yanking money, our federal tax dollars away from the institutions that are the worst offenders.

00:21:59.540 And I think you're going to see much more of that happening soon.

00:22:01.760 I completely agree.

00:22:02.540 So back to the mayor of Chicago, what happens next?

00:22:05.900 We've opened up an investigation.

00:22:07.420 We've demanded some data from him.

00:22:09.100 We will be in touch with some very specific data and we'll be going back years to understand.

00:22:14.940 And what I'm hearing from members of the public already is, well, I applied for this job.

00:22:18.200 I applied for that job.

00:22:19.120 I didn't get it.

00:22:20.020 I'm not the right race. 0.90

00:22:21.080 I'm not the right gender, according to his descriptions.

00:22:23.780 And so what the federal government has been doing over the years to ordinary companies is demand this data and then force them to hire according to a particular pattern.

00:22:36.360 We're going to do the same thing.

00:22:37.360 We're going to demand the data.

00:22:38.920 And then if there's a pattern of discrimination, which I think there is based on what he said, he's told us, we will leave him at his words.

00:22:47.440 They'll have to take action to correct that.

00:22:49.760 They may have multiple, I'm guessing that plaintiff's lawyers all over the United States are contacting plaintiffs right now in Chicago and preparing cases against the city.

00:23:00.580 So the taxpayers are going to pay for this pattern and practice of discrimination that has been described by the mayor.

00:23:08.220 But it's a longstanding pattern.

00:23:09.600 He's just the one who said it out loud.

00:23:11.060 It's been happening for decades in that city.

00:23:14.140 At the same time, there's talk about reparations in multiple cities in the United States.

00:23:20.080 I mean, again, that's just a wealth transfer from people who didn't do anything wrong to people who didn't have anything wrong done to them, really.

00:23:28.580 And it's counterintuitive to what we believe in our country.

00:23:32.160 Yeah.

00:23:33.080 Do you think that could happen?

00:23:35.680 No.

00:23:36.200 No, but the talk of it is manna for, you know, certain people.

00:23:41.060 I think it is bait for Democrat elections and it's popular in certain communities.

00:23:48.500 And so it's crazy to see that.

00:23:51.920 But I do think the pendulum is swinging back in some places because these policies, these wealth transfers, if you will, the episodic rioting that you see in our cities, it is not conducive to a peaceful lifestyle or productive society.

00:24:08.980 And so I think you actually are seeing, even in deep blue California, my home state, my former home state, you're seeing the pendulum swing back in ways.

00:24:19.620 I mean, you know, San Francisco seems to be slowly pulling back from the brink of extremism.

00:24:25.200 San Jose has a mayor who's talking some sense.

00:24:31.200 And, you know, so I'm hopeful, but we can't be passive about it.

00:24:36.660 First, you have to be willing to call it out and stand up and say, no, it is wrong to hire on the basis of race in America.

00:24:44.100 It is wrong to discriminate against people based on what their theoretical ancestors did 200 years ago.

00:24:51.260 This is wrong.

00:24:51.940 It's un-American. 0.82

00:24:54.300 When you initiate an investigation into the mayor of Chicago, first of all, thank you for doing that.

00:24:59.520 Thank you for, I think one of the benefits of what you're doing is just noting something that everyone else takes for granted.

00:25:08.120 As you said, people feel free to say this and you're just reminding everyone this is against federal law and it's immoral.

00:25:13.240 So I think it's huge.

00:25:14.560 But when you order a sister attorney generalist investigation, do you, does the staff like obey in your office?

00:25:23.160 Oh, my staff, well, first of all, I am surrounded by a lot of dedicated public servants like me who are, yeah, yes.

00:25:30.400 So there was no, I mean, you know, you get to have a few political appointees in the front office is what we call it.

00:25:37.300 So, you know, they jumped on it before I even asked, you know, someone was drafting a letter on Sunday afternoon to do this.

00:25:42.900 We also call the acting chairman of the EEOC, Andrea Lucas, who's been working hand in glove with us on other discrimination issues.

00:25:52.900 And she's opened up an investigation as well.

00:25:55.880 So the EEOC has subpoena power.

00:25:58.360 You know, we've asked for documents.

00:25:59.480 The EEOC can actually subpoena them and do a commissioner's charge.

00:26:03.060 And so eventually at the end of their parallel investigation, they'll have data that they can share with us as well.

00:26:08.240 So we're working together in the university setting, in this setting, and in other settings with other branches of the executive.

00:26:18.020 So, I mean, on any given day, I'm talking to the White House.

00:26:20.740 I'm talking to colleagues of the Department of Education, Department of Homeland Security.

00:26:25.960 I had a conversation yesterday and other conversations like that are happening.

00:26:29.800 So, you know, the team is very focused on our common goals.

00:26:33.260 I hate even to say this out loud, but, you know, one of the ways that, you know, someone like you rolls in, you've got, you know, a public career.

00:26:41.580 So everyone knows exactly where you stand.

00:26:43.860 You've been highly ferocious over the years.

00:26:48.100 And so, like, there's no question what you're going to do when you get there.

00:26:51.000 You're a known quantity and you're a massive threat to the way things operate there.

00:26:55.600 You haven't worked in a federal agency before.

00:26:58.220 There are all kinds of weird customs and laws, especially around classification.

00:27:01.320 And so someone like you, they're like, ah, you know, let's trap her in something.

00:27:07.040 Are you worried about that?

00:27:08.780 Well, among the...

00:27:10.900 I mean, Mike Flynn is the most famous example of this, but like...

00:27:14.100 It is.

00:27:14.460 We've learned some lessons and there are always new ways and there is a deep state.

00:27:18.900 And, you know, just yesterday I had a conversation with one of my colleagues about the resistance that he was encountering.

00:27:24.840 And I had my feedback, but part of my background is as an employment lawyer.

00:27:29.400 Yes.

00:27:29.600 And so, you know, we're not making some mistakes that some people who are, you know, simply defense lawyers might have made.

00:27:36.860 I have a plaintiff's lawyer mentality.

00:27:38.560 And so, you know, I think, what would I do if I were the other side?

00:27:41.960 And, you know, so I think about that.

00:27:43.640 So, you know, we're giving people clear direction and opportunities.

00:27:47.420 And if they don't want to take those opportunities and they want to be in resistance mode, this is not the place for them.

00:27:52.000 And so, you know, there are career paths elsewhere and many people have chosen to take that.

00:27:57.520 Some of them regretted it.

00:27:58.740 Some of them tried to come back.

00:28:00.500 I think it is best that people who have passions to do something that's opposite of what the president's current agenda is should do that elsewhere.

00:28:06.880 Not on the taxpayer dollar.

00:28:12.380 Just my personal perspective.

00:28:14.000 So you've uncovered a bunch of stuff already.

00:28:18.380 And one of the things that you uncovered, I think, is part of the answer to why our cities have become so dangerous.

00:28:25.660 And it has to do with consent decrees that, you know, have been forced on cities and police departments by the federal government.

00:28:33.920 Can you explain how that has worked over the years?

00:28:36.460 Yeah, absolutely.

00:28:36.900 So the consent decree trend kind of dates back to the Rodney King riots.

00:28:43.880 Okay.

00:28:44.080 And, you know, there's terrible rioting in Los Angeles.

00:28:48.320 92-ish?

00:28:49.200 Yeah, about 30, 33 years ago.

00:28:51.780 Yeah, I was in law school at the time.

00:28:53.800 And, you know, the police got blamed for, I think, some fairly rotten cultural trends in our society.

00:29:06.000 The police got blamed trying to control that riot.

00:29:09.740 I mean, you have people like Maxine Waters, you know, egging on the crowd and feeding the flames.

00:29:14.780 And somehow the police got left holding the bag.

00:29:17.580 And so what happened was the Department of Justice, of course, California as well, but the Department of Justice opened up investigations into police practices.

00:29:26.760 And so the trend has been Department of Justice, particularly under Democrat administrations, opens up what's called a pattern and practice investigation.

00:29:37.720 And they basically say that any time one cop does something wrong, it must be because there is a systemic problem in the police department.

00:29:47.680 There's poor training.

00:29:49.100 There's ineffective policies.

00:29:51.640 There's ineffective resources.

00:29:53.920 And or there's racism.

00:29:55.200 There's always racism.

00:29:56.520 That's underlying most of these police consent decrees is racism.

00:29:59.920 And I'll talk about current examples as well.

00:30:02.740 But so cities, by the way, I mean, you've all seen this in prosecutions.

00:30:08.960 When the federal government comes after you with its endless resources and its punitive scope of measures that it can apply, even America's biggest cities worth with tens of billions of dollars of budgets, they quake.

00:30:24.140 Because it can become very expensive and it can become a politically charged football to continue to have these federal court hearings and judges and all of that.

00:30:34.920 So what typically happens is the DOJ says, hi, we are from the government.

00:30:38.660 We think that you're a racist and we'd like you to enter into a consent decree where you, the city, is going to pay Bob over here, who works at a big white shoe law firm, several million dollars to monitor your compliance with this.

00:30:55.560 I mean, this is a binder.

00:30:57.300 Some of the consent decrees are longer than this.

00:30:59.580 Hundreds of pages long of minutely detailed orders of what they're supposed to do to improve their police practices.

00:31:05.940 Who comes up with those guidelines?

00:31:09.800 The lawyers in the civil rights divisions of the United States Department of Justice.

00:31:13.920 They have a lot of experience policing big cities?

00:31:16.480 They have no experience policing big cities.

00:31:19.320 Some of them have probably never met a cop in the wild.

00:31:24.500 You know, these are lawyers from good schools and they're very idealistic.

00:31:30.340 By the way, most of them have never tried a case in their lives.

00:31:33.900 And of all the consent decrees, one of the striking things I learned this week is of all the consent decrees that the United States Department of Justice has imposed, and there are dozens and dozens of them over the years, maybe hundreds, but certainly in recent decades, dozens per year in some years.

00:31:53.940 And the Biden administration, they opened up a dozen investigations, and those are some of the ones that I've been examining since I got into office.

00:32:02.280 They only took two of those cases to trial.

00:32:05.040 In hundreds of instances of investigations, they lost one, and they lost the police part of the other one.

00:32:13.680 There was a housing aspect of the second one, which they won.

00:32:18.020 And so, in all the years that you've read about Los Angeles and Albuquerque and Seattle and Portland and all of these cities being under consent decrees,

00:32:28.700 no federal judge ever looked at the evidence and found that the United States Department of Justice actually proved their case that there was systemic racism or systemic improper training.

00:32:42.000 It was lawyers like the ones I described earlier, who don't have much trial experience, looking at a dry paper record, and by the way, over the last several years, sitting in their living room doing it because they were working from home during COVID.

00:32:58.480 So, in their home, looking at paper and selectively cherry-picking evidence from these records that they forced the cities to turn over, reaching conclusions.

00:33:10.080 Not reaching conclusions that a jury agreed with or that even a federal judge saw the evidence of, but simply bullying American cities into compliance and then presenting a fait accompli to a judge.

00:33:23.660 And in some cases, most cases, the judges would say, okay, I agree.

00:33:29.660 And what's particularly shocking is, in so many of the recent instances of police consent decrees in the United States, woke prosecutors in those cities and woke city councils and woke mayors went along with them.

00:33:45.720 They wanted them because they, too, don't like the police.

00:33:48.700 And so, it has been a sort of perfect storm of the taxpayer having to pay for monitoring.

00:33:59.460 Some fat cat lawyer gets a big contract that goes on for many years.

00:34:03.420 And crime skyrockets in cities with consent decrees.

00:34:07.600 This is called the Ferguson effect, after Ferguson, Missouri.

00:34:11.920 When a city's under a consent decree, cops have to suddenly fill out reams of paperwork every day.

00:34:17.260 Guess what?

00:34:17.680 They don't want to do that.

00:34:18.700 They didn't become cops to sit there and do paperwork.

00:34:21.000 So, they quit.

00:34:21.960 They retire.

00:34:22.620 They move to cities where they do want policing to be done effectively.

00:34:26.260 Crime goes up because criminals now know that the policing is not being done.

00:34:30.120 And so, for example, and I'm not just saying this from a biased perspective.

00:34:34.500 Axios did a review of cities under consent decrees.

00:34:37.880 And I think one of the figures is crime went up by 61% in Los Angeles County as a result after consent decrees were imposed on the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

00:34:50.440 And so, cities are less safe.

00:34:52.860 Cops are...

00:34:53.480 I mean, ultimately, you know, the purpose of a system is its effect.

00:34:59.940 So, you could say, well, people don't, no one wants crime.

00:35:02.460 But, like, over time, if the DOJ is causing more crime in America's cities, they want more crime.

00:35:09.560 Like, what is that?

00:35:11.740 You can just take the words of my predecessor at her own face value, which is, you know, defund the police.

00:35:18.920 And so, defund the police has become the mantra of so-called law enforcement in the United States.

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00:38:03.740 Any idea what the motive is there other than just to burn down the civilization?

00:38:08.020 I mean, I don't want to speculate about motives, but it has made our cities less safe.

00:38:13.460 It has made us pay for the cities to become less safe.

00:38:16.980 So, that's particularly galling.

00:38:18.380 We have to pay some person eating at Morton's on our dime and attending conferences on our dime.

00:38:27.720 And cops, who are people who put their lives on the line for us every day, are made to feel ashamed of their jobs.

00:38:36.100 And America is less safe.

00:38:37.500 And every time you see, there are bad cops, I want to be clear.

00:38:40.760 There are cops who shoot people.

00:38:42.860 And the DOJ also prosecutes those, to be clear.

00:38:45.700 Part of our job in the Civil Rights Division is a criminal section that criminally prosecutes bad cops.

00:38:52.780 I support that.

00:38:53.940 I've signed off on several prosecutions so far since I've been there.

00:38:58.200 And there's trials going on right now.

00:39:00.540 Cops who shoot somebody in the back and, you know, they exhibit excessive force.

00:39:05.460 But we also have to all be punished collectively, you know, back to the point of collective punishment.

00:39:11.040 We all have to suffer because there's one bad cop or two bad cops.

00:39:14.220 Can you imagine how many bad cops there are going to be soon?

00:39:17.980 No normal person wants to be a cop.

00:39:20.100 It's too hard.

00:39:21.180 It's not worth it.

00:39:22.040 You get imprisoned in a lot.

00:39:24.380 Philadelphia, I was talking to a cop in Philadelphia last week.

00:39:27.680 I'm retiring.

00:39:28.520 Everyone's gone.

00:39:29.540 Like, you do anything, you go right to jail as a cop.

00:39:33.040 If you enforce the law, you go to jail.

00:39:34.820 It's not worth it.

00:39:35.860 I'm one of the few lawyers who's headed the Civil Rights Division who's actually sued the police.

00:39:40.780 And I did it from the opposite perspective of what is expected.

00:39:44.740 So, in 2016, I was at a Trump rally and there was a riot in San Jose.

00:39:50.840 And it was an organized, well-funded riot.

00:39:53.760 I'm just a citizen going to support my candidate.

00:39:57.180 I did the Pledge of Allegiance.

00:39:58.800 I met the future president backstage.

00:40:01.780 And then all of us were subjected to mob violence.

00:40:04.700 And what called me was the police, 200-plus of them with riot gear, just stood there and watched.

00:40:09.880 And I went and, during the course of my lawsuit, suing over the fact that American citizens were injured in a violent mob.

00:40:17.240 I asked some of them, like, why was that?

00:40:20.420 You get to the bottom of that lawsuit and it turns out that because of consent decrees and best practices of policing that are coming down from Washington, D.C. and the DOJ, the police are taught to basically, in a crowd control situation, stand there and watch and not do anything.

00:40:38.820 So, it is insane.

00:40:42.180 I was truly shocked by that.

00:40:43.880 And so, I have experience suing the police and, you know, trying to get them to improve their practices and be more aggressive on behalf of the taxpayers, which is the opposite of what they're usually asked to do in these cases.

00:40:52.780 And so, you know, so we resolved that case with some agreements that they would do some training and be a little, you know, different than what they were.

00:41:01.740 But what we're seeing in the Biden DOJ, which, again, I came in and I looked at the books here, is it's striking that, first of all, they took the four years to immediately begin changing course, opening investigations that the Trump DOJ had closed and shut down.

00:41:19.080 And then, literally after the election, after the election where President Trump won in 2024, they filed several cases and made public several findings of fact in over, you know, over 10 cities in the United States.

00:41:35.100 They hastily ran to court in December in Louisville, Kentucky, and in January, January 6th in Minneapolis, Minnesota, to file new cases.

00:41:49.260 You know, clearly at the tail end, they lost the election.

00:41:51.400 They're not going to be able to carry this through, but they wanted to make public these consent decrees.

00:41:55.100 So, they put in front of two federal judges in these two cases in Minneapolis and Louisville, these factual findings.

00:42:01.920 Now, these factual findings are done by lawyers sitting in their living rooms on a dry paper record, and the findings are, you know, we have reason to believe that these cities engaged in racist policing and also violations of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

00:42:21.080 That's a common theme running through the dozen or so consent decrees and factual findings predating a consent decree that I've reviewed at DOJ.

00:42:29.540 So, the idea is that if a drugged out or mentally ill person is the subject of a call to 911, somehow the police dispatcher is supposed to know, just based on a member of the public calling or somebody calling for help themselves, that they should have done, what, I don't know, dispatched a social worker instead of a cop to the scene after someone dials 911?

00:42:52.740 Is being addicted to illegal narcotics disability?

00:42:55.340 I mean, you might think so, or reading some of the factual findings.

00:42:59.200 Are you being serious?

00:43:00.220 I am serious, based on the factual findings I've seen from DOJ.

00:43:03.340 I thought it was a crime, or a failing at very least.

00:43:06.700 Tucker, it's a mental health issue, and it's a Americans with Disabilities Act.

00:43:09.460 Actually, so if I'm addicted to meth, I have special protection?

00:43:13.880 Well, apparently the police dispatcher is supposed to know by that 911 call that they shouldn't have sent a cop, they should have sent a social worker.

00:43:21.220 I mean, it's an insane standard.

00:43:23.360 And the federal government is doing that?

00:43:24.820 The federal government, DOJ, has been reaching those factual findings and then asking federal judges to impose thick, decade-long, minutely detailed consent decrees, out of which cities struggle to get out of.

00:43:41.000 You know, the average consent decree, Tucker, when the United States Department of Justice gets, bullies a city into agreeing to it, is over a decade.

00:43:49.360 So the problem isn't solved quickly by all the taxpayer dollars, the monitor, the police reform, the community policing councils and groups that are set up in these consent decrees.

00:43:59.720 The judge overseeing it, the problem that was identified, isn't solved.

00:44:04.080 In fact, it turns out that when you fund investigations and you fund monitoring, and a monitor decides when you're good enough and your performance has improved, you get more monitoring.

00:44:16.440 You get more years of that.

00:44:17.940 You get more fees paid to big law firms like Hogan-Lavelle's and some other big law firms in the United States.

00:44:23.880 And the citizens pay the bill.

00:44:26.780 So it's a tax on Americans who live in cities because one cop, or maybe no cops in some cases, did something wrong.

00:44:36.860 And so it's a totally broken system.

00:44:39.740 And when we came into office, it was a priority of this administration to review all pending consent decrees, all consent decrees that had yet to be entered by a judge,

00:44:50.760 all pre-consent decrees factual findings found by the Department of Justice and announced publicly shaming these cities.

00:44:58.080 And look at the data and see, are these really justified?

00:45:01.760 And our immediate conclusion, by the way, not just our conclusion, in the case of Minneapolis and Louisville, federal judges to which these were presented had some tough questions.

00:45:11.040 And in the case of Louisville, the judge asked the DOJ lawyers, these DOJ lawyers I've described from the Civil Rights Division, to explain themselves.

00:45:20.020 How did you reach that conclusion?

00:45:21.680 What are the data supporting your conclusion?

00:45:24.340 How do you account for variables?

00:45:27.320 Like, what are the high crime areas?

00:45:29.700 I mean, are the high crime areas racially different than the population of the city?

00:45:34.300 These lawyers did not have answers.

00:45:36.260 It was embarrassing.

00:45:36.980 And so the judge refused to enter the consent decree in Louisville and sent the DOJ back and said, I need your answers.

00:45:43.620 By the way, you know, guess what?

00:45:44.420 This is days before the administration is about to turn over.

00:45:46.900 So we've asked for a couple of continuances.

00:45:50.240 So what are the criteria that government lawyers use to, like, reach the conclusion that there's systemic racism that requires a dissent decree?

00:45:59.160 Like, I don't really understand.

00:46:02.600 I mean, it's one thing to say in an MSNBC segment, there's systemic racism.

00:46:07.620 But if you're a Civil Rights Division attorney, you have to prove it, correct?

00:46:11.680 You should have to prove it.

00:46:12.820 But as I said, no jury has ever agreed with the DOJ.

00:46:19.000 But what are the measures?

00:46:20.120 Since racism is an attitude that has, you know, can have manifestations, of course, but it's really like a mindset.

00:46:27.080 How do you prove that?

00:46:30.040 Well, so we have, of course, being the government, we have statisticians on our staff at the Department of Justice.

00:46:37.180 You know, I was surprised to show up.

00:46:38.820 I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, let me look at all these lawyers.

00:46:40.580 What is their trial experience?

00:46:41.500 Oh, there's a PhD in statistics here.

00:46:44.600 That's going to be really useful in court.

00:46:46.480 But they could be, by the way.

00:46:50.440 There are cases.

00:46:51.560 So properly deployed, they could be.

00:46:54.000 But if you never have to prove your case, you never have to use them.

00:46:57.280 You simply beat people over the head with a statistics book.

00:47:00.160 And so that's what's happened here.

00:47:01.160 So I'll give you an example.

00:47:02.080 Memphis, Tennessee is one of the cities that the outgoing Department of Justice issued some pretty lurid-looking factual findings in.

00:47:10.000 And so when you start reading it, you look at, hey, the findings are, well, Memphis is racist and, you know, their arrest rates of African-Americans are disproportionate.

00:47:21.420 I'm sorry, let me just say, anyone who's been to Memphis, it's such a wonderful place.

00:47:25.840 I love Memphis. 0.97

00:47:26.720 But if you come away thinking, you know, the real problem in Memphis is racism, then you're a liar. 0.99

00:47:33.580 Well, so Memphis is majority black. 0.98

00:47:36.660 Yes. 0.97

00:47:37.020 The police force is majority black. 0.98

00:47:40.960 And guess what? 0.98

00:47:41.660 The homeless population, which is the subject of this consent decree finding, pre-consent decree finding, is majority black.

00:47:49.080 And so the idea that there's disproportionate arrests of, you know, people who are on the street and, you know, potentially committing crimes is racist. 0.89

00:47:58.040 Black cops, black population, and black homeless population.

00:48:02.720 How do you reach that conclusion that racism? 0.99

00:48:05.660 You have to reach that conclusion because you are biased yourself.

00:48:09.120 And the lens that you're looking through is a lens seeking racism.

00:48:13.060 And if that's what you're seeking, that's what you find in each of these cities.

00:48:17.060 And that is what they found in each of these cities.

00:48:20.480 It's like the ANC or something.

00:48:23.100 But, you know, in the end, like Memphis also has not only the country's highest murder rate or one of them, like the worst schools and like contaminated water and crumbling housing stock and like no businesses.

00:48:36.080 And there's so many problems.

00:48:37.700 And if you just think it's like white people are the problem, nothing ever gets fixed. 0.69

00:48:42.100 Well, that's the problem with these consent decrees.

00:48:44.880 And so we examine these.

00:48:46.560 And look, one of the things people need to understand as a lawyer, when I go into federal court, my name as the assistant attorney general for civil rights is on all of these documents that we file in court.

00:48:57.400 Sometimes the attorney general's name is on it as well.

00:48:59.400 But my name is on all of these documents where we charge somebody.

00:49:03.080 And I have to be able to say to the judge, look the judge in the eye and say, I believe in these findings of my Department of Justice Civil Rights Division.

00:49:12.920 Judge, I stand behind them.

00:49:14.600 And I'm confident that what we're alleging in these papers is true.

00:49:18.060 Well, Tucker, I looked at these findings.

00:49:20.600 And I and the lawyers who report to me in the DOJ said we cannot stand behind these conclusions.

00:49:27.600 I can't stand in front of a judge with a straight face and say that Memphis's problems are racist cops.

00:49:34.720 I mean, they're they're not racist.

00:49:36.360 They simply are dealing with a population that happens to have a particular racial makeup.

00:49:40.880 The conclusions are not correcting for that.

00:49:43.140 The conclusions are not correcting for what neighborhoods have crime.

00:49:46.720 There's cherry picking of statistics.

00:49:49.300 There is imposing Americans with Disabilities Act layers onto these consent decrees that don't exist in the law.

00:49:56.520 The Americans with Disabilities Act does not impose on police requirements of how they respond to 911 calls.

00:50:05.000 It just it just doesn't.

00:50:06.720 So wishing it were so does not make it so.

00:50:10.140 And so what's happening is these cities are having to agree to these things because they're afraid of the consequences or they have a woke city council that wants the hands of the police to be tied.

00:50:21.340 That's the most corrupt thing is the cities were basically begging for these consent decrees to be entered.

00:50:26.600 And, you know, in the case of Louisville, we're dismissing Louisville.

00:50:30.680 That's so weird.

00:50:31.680 You're a city councilman in a city and you want the crime rate to go up.

00:50:36.280 Like, what is that?

00:50:37.360 I think it's the weirdest, most suicidal thing I've ever seen.

00:50:41.020 No one's talking about it until we started looking at these.

00:50:44.100 And so we're dismissing and withdrawing the Minneapolis and the Louisville consent decrees that were put in front of federal judges just a few months ago.

00:50:51.860 We don't have confidence in them.

00:50:53.440 We are telling judges that this is not something that the DOJ can stand behind.

00:50:59.240 Now, in each of these cities, by the way, Louisville has already agreed to hire its own police monitor without the DOJ forcing them to do it.

00:51:07.760 I mean, that's not my business.

00:51:09.160 I wouldn't necessarily think that the problem goes to that degree.

00:51:14.260 Someone's friend who's a lawyer is probably going to get paid out of that and, you know, good for them.

00:51:18.960 But in Minneapolis's case, Minneapolis has already entered into a state consent decree.

00:51:27.820 So why are they still, you know, going along with this federal one?

00:51:31.100 Well, they thought the federal one would be worse and more onerous.

00:51:34.480 And so Minneapolis has publicly stated that they're going to oppose the Department of Justice's attempts to dismiss the case against the city, believe that or not.

00:51:44.800 That is like the craziest thing I've ever heard.

00:51:46.740 I mean, you would think as a city leader, your job is first to protect your city and then deal with your problems yourself, which they're already doing in Minneapolis.

00:51:54.940 They're begging to be punished by the feds for crimes that they probably didn't commit.

00:52:00.740 Not even crimes.

00:52:02.080 Just, you know, sort of reason to believe that the police practices are improper or inadequate.

00:52:08.100 But they want to be punished.

00:52:09.260 Spank me harder, daddy. 1.00

00:52:10.240 I want to put words into their mouths, but their actions are that they would oppose the DOJ letting them sort it out themselves.

00:52:17.480 I mean, it is what it is.

00:52:20.860 So not every city is like that and not every municipality is like that.

00:52:24.140 There are six other jurisdictions that the DOJ issued findings in that we're withdrawing.

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00:53:04.840 Did you know that this was going on?

00:53:07.240 Look, I knew that consent decrees were an abusive process.

00:53:10.620 I did not realize the extent to which there was collusion in this process.

00:53:14.820 I mean, we have perpetual monitors who have made decades of their lives getting paid up.

00:53:20.000 Like there's one which a city that just closed up its consent decree, DOJ dismissed it after a decade.

00:53:26.240 A single man got paid a million dollars a year to monitor a year to monitor a city's compliance with a DOJ consent decree that went on and on and on.

00:53:39.320 And, you know, these consent decree monitors set compliance rates of 95% or 100%.

00:53:45.520 And it's like it's like Zeno's paradox.

00:53:48.280 You know, you never actually reach 100% because you never reached 94%.

00:53:52.760 You never reached 95%.

00:53:53.840 And the judge is a guy getting paid to determine the outcome.

00:53:57.880 And it is a broken system.

00:54:02.100 Some of these consent decree monitors have fake companies, shell companies that haven't been registered with any state.

00:54:09.000 Some of them have fake nonprofits that aren't really nonprofits.

00:54:14.300 They sell themselves and, you know, there's never any accountability.

00:54:17.960 And so at a minimum, what we're doing for all of these existing consent decrees as well is to look at these monitors.

00:54:23.740 Are they real?

00:54:25.040 What goals have they accomplished in a decade?

00:54:27.700 Are things better in that city?

00:54:29.000 Are the people safer?

00:54:30.880 What are we getting in exchange?

00:54:32.220 Some of these consent decrees, Tucker, cost cities over the course of this 10 years.

00:54:36.960 Just forget the monitor who's getting paid 10 million bucks on average.

00:54:41.500 $200 million in some cases is what it costs a city or a county to comply with a decade-long consent decree.

00:54:48.420 Because they have to do all these endless trainings and they have to fill out all these forms.

00:54:52.700 The Department of Justice in the last four years has spent 65,000 hours in the Civil Rights Division, which only had about 60 lawyers.

00:55:01.660 So tens of thousands of hours monitoring these consent decrees.

00:55:08.240 I mean, it is a mind-boggling volume of waste.

00:55:12.360 So in the end, the lawyers get rich and more people get shot to death.

00:55:16.320 That is correct.

00:55:17.240 That is the average outcome of a consent decree.

00:55:21.520 Wow, it's just so evil.

00:55:23.220 It makes you think like maybe we just burn the system down and start again.

00:55:27.300 Well, what we're doing is one by one looking at every existing consent decree, and I haven't gotten through all of them.

00:55:32.700 But, you know, we got to the point where six weeks in, I said, look, we have to put a stop to these.

00:55:37.300 I mean, some of these cities, so Phoenix, Arizona, we're dismissing the findings, we're withdrawing the findings in our pre-consent decree efforts there.

00:55:46.340 Mount Vernon, New York, a tiny police department with, you know, what I would say a couple of practices that I wouldn't necessarily agree are the best practices, but, you know, they've also agreed to stop doing them.

00:55:57.380 So why is the federal government getting involved and putting together thick reports?

00:56:02.220 Oklahoma City is another one.

00:56:04.780 Trenton, New Jersey is another one.

00:56:07.060 The Mississippi Police Department is another one.

00:56:12.580 The Mississippi State Police is another one.

00:56:17.220 And then we have Memphis, which we already discussed.

00:56:21.280 And so in some cases, these cities didn't go along with them.

00:56:24.920 They fought the DOJ.

00:56:26.240 So, you know, good for them having some integrity in their city government.

00:56:30.220 I've heard from members of Congress in some of these jurisdictions who said this consent decree is simply, I mean, I'll give you the example of Phoenix.

00:56:37.880 So Phoenix seems to be an attempt by the Department of Justice to go after a sort of purple, reddish jurisdiction and hold them accountable for trying to impose quality of life standards. 0.75

00:56:49.960 So, for example, Phoenix has been called to account in the DOJ report that we're withdrawing as part of my investigation for moving the homeless along.

00:56:58.800 And what law do they cite in this consent decree analysis?

00:57:03.860 They cite the Boise, Idaho case that people are familiar with where the court, the Ninth Circuit held that it was unconstitutional for Boise to try to, you know, move homeless people off the street unless you had a nice housing to put them in.

00:57:21.080 Well, the United States Supreme Court reversed that.

00:57:24.300 And so they reversed it in the Grants Pass case.

00:57:27.480 So we're even today in the DOJ's recent consent decree work simply ignoring binding Supreme Court precedent that says that what the police were doing in Phoenix is a-okay under the law and hoping to simply bully them into compliance.

00:57:43.380 So this is not what our federal government should be doing.

00:57:44.440 Do you want more people living on the sidewalk?

00:57:46.380 Like, this is, if you take three steps back, it's like so dark, so diseased. 1.00

00:57:52.520 You want more violent crime.

00:57:54.720 You want more drug abuse.

00:57:56.060 You want more people living on the street.

00:57:57.620 Why would you want any of that?

00:57:58.940 Why would any elected official of any party want that in the United States in 2025?

00:58:05.420 Well, I don't get it.

00:58:06.440 And so in these eight cases, we're getting rid of them and there will be more, I'm confident.

00:58:11.380 It's interesting.

00:58:12.240 I mean, I didn't know any of this, but it's part of the explanation for why we have more of all of those things.

00:58:17.800 You look around, you're like, I don't recognize this.

00:58:19.880 Like, I grew up here.

00:58:20.660 We never had any of this.

00:58:22.460 Why do we have it now?

00:58:24.040 And part of the answer clearly is what you're describing, which is an attempt by elements of the Department of Justice to, like, create these outcomes.

00:58:33.320 Well, and on top of that, there's some corrupt rent seeking as well.

00:58:35.820 Let's just call it what it is.

00:58:37.040 You know, there's, like I said, these white shoe lawyers.

00:58:41.360 One was thrown out of a casino earlier this year.

00:58:46.420 A prominent lawyer at a major law firm was thrown out of a casino.

00:58:52.420 He was intoxicated.

00:58:53.260 When the police came, he said, I'm with the DOJ.

00:58:57.440 I'm the police monitor.

00:58:59.940 And so you can't touch me.

00:59:01.780 Other cities have reported to us, lawyers, my colleagues in the DOJ, that if you dare complain about my bills, I'm going to keep you under a consent decree longer.

00:59:14.220 I mean, it's that level of shakedown.

00:59:16.560 My bills as in billing?

00:59:18.000 As in payment to me?

00:59:19.120 My billing.

00:59:20.520 Yeah.

00:59:21.760 When the bills are questioned, the city gets punished harder.

00:59:24.740 So, you know, you would hope judges are looking at these things carefully.

00:59:32.500 Guess what?

00:59:33.440 Judges are busy and judges are not looking at them that carefully.

00:59:37.880 So just to be clear, you have half of your staff attorney positions unfilled because you don't have the budget to hire new lawyers, ones who might actually want to follow the law.

00:59:49.860 But we somehow have the money, even post-doge, to pay monitors a million dollars a year to oversee arrangements that lead to more violent crime.

01:00:00.400 Well, the monitors are not being paid by the DOJ.

01:00:02.360 They're being paid by the cities.

01:00:04.080 So the cities that are under the lens of the DOJ are having these costs imposed on them.

01:00:11.560 And there's, like I said, no accountability.

01:00:13.960 There are annual conferences of the judges who impose the consent decrees, of the monitors who enjoy the fees and don't solve the problem, and the city officials who think it's all kind of a game.

01:00:29.020 Let's have community policing, and let's have a bunch of, you know, random people who have no background in dealing with crime tell the police what to do.

01:00:38.580 There's annual junkets.

01:00:41.500 It's an industry.

01:00:42.420 It's a multi-billion dollar industry making America more unsafe for the most part.

01:00:48.380 Does anyone ever consider the fact that, like, violent crime causes racism, actually?

01:00:54.120 I mean, it's just, that's just true.

01:00:56.580 When people are afraid, first of all, when people are afraid, they become much less reasonable.

01:01:01.580 I think everybody does.

01:01:02.520 It's just like a human response, right?

01:01:04.180 Well, people are afraid in America's cities.

01:01:06.260 Yes.

01:01:06.480 And we have been made to believe that riots, like after the, you know, Minneapolis incident with George Floyd, like the regrettable incident where Breonna Taylor was shot.

01:01:20.120 By the way, my department is prosecuting the two cops who lied to get a no-knock warrant in that case.

01:01:29.340 I mean, that is a serious offense, and we're going to hold those individuals accountable, which is different than holding the whole city of Louisville and all the taxpayers in that city accountable for mistakes that were allegedly made by two individuals.

01:01:43.480 So, you know, what a concept, you know, individual responsibility for individual mistakes.

01:01:52.480 And so, you know, we do that regularly.

01:01:54.200 In each of these jurisdictions, Tucker, where the DOJ has been examining these police departments, there have been police misconduct cases, and cops have been punished, either at the state level or at the federal level.

01:02:07.900 That's appropriate.

01:02:08.500 They're bad actors in every industry, you know, media and law and medicine.

01:02:14.360 But asking cops, as a matter of a multi-hundred-page consent decree to sort of be doctors and predict Americans with Disabilities Act outcomes, adverse outcomes, is just insane.

01:02:30.660 And it doesn't work.

01:02:32.980 And, you know, let's face it, if these lawyers were any good at organic chemistry, they wouldn't be lawyers, right?

01:02:41.020 No, that's right.

01:02:41.480 I mean, you know, so the government cannot be the be-all and end-all solution to all social ills, and this is an example.

01:02:51.740 And so—

01:02:52.520 Is there anything you can do about the consent decree is already in place?

01:02:55.040 We are going to be—we are examining them, and we're going to be bringing to the attention of judges inappropriate conduct by monitors.

01:03:04.320 The one I just mentioned is one who is ripe to be mentioned to a judge as someone committing misconduct.

01:03:11.880 Monitors who claim to have nonprofits or corporations, but they don't.

01:03:16.200 We're going to be bringing those to the attention of a judge.

01:03:17.980 I don't understand—I mean, I thought the legal profession was self-policing through the bar.

01:03:24.020 I don't understand why nobody is ever disbarred except for, like, representing Donald Trump.

01:03:28.540 I don't understand that.

01:03:30.120 Where is the bar, the state bars?

01:03:33.040 You raise a very good question, and it's a question I've raised myself.

01:03:36.980 And so we have today, in 2025, lawyers who have been—are under prosecution.

01:03:44.920 I mean, this is happening in Arizona, in Nevada, and other jurisdictions, California, or a bar complaint for who they represented.

01:03:53.460 You're absolutely right.

01:03:54.500 And what arguments they made, even privately, to their client, and not even in front of a judge.

01:04:00.100 John Eastman is an example of that.

01:04:01.920 Yes.

01:04:02.060 And so many others.

01:04:03.240 And yet you have corrupt monitors who are holding cities hostage, effectively, and all the taxpayers in those cities for their personal benefit.

01:04:11.840 And then you have city councils who are elected to represent the people, and instead they would like to see the cops handcuffed and see the streets burning in their cities.

01:04:22.800 And this is a lack of accountability.

01:04:24.760 It is a broken system, and at least the Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, is not going to be participating in making that broken system worse under President Trump's leadership and under our current attorney general.

01:04:38.580 Amazing.

01:04:39.660 I know.

01:04:39.980 What a concept, right?

01:04:41.560 Well, that's an amazing story.

01:04:43.020 I didn't even know that was happening, but it explains a lot.

01:04:46.540 So basically, you just got there to run this division.

01:04:49.700 Six weeks ago.

01:04:50.500 It's incredible.

01:04:51.160 So there's probably so many things that you're looking at that you're going to want to examine that have been going on that most people, including me, didn't know about.

01:05:02.420 What are some of those things?

01:05:03.560 Well, there are 11 sections in the Civil Rights Division, and some of the things that we're going to be looking at in coming weeks and months include the rampant anti-Christian bias happening throughout the United States.

01:05:14.880 And so there's anti-Christian bias happening within the government.

01:05:19.300 There are chaplains in the military who are told to tone down their Christianity under the prior administration, and that's insane.

01:05:29.180 And, you know, in America, we're founded on religious liberty, and specifically the Protestants who came here to be able to practice their faith freely.

01:05:36.880 And so we're bringing back a focus on that.

01:05:39.500 There's a law called— 0.89

01:05:41.640 Bless you.

01:05:42.000 Thank you.

01:05:42.460 And it's important.

01:05:43.240 And it's important for all people of faith in America to be able to worship.

01:05:47.540 And so we're bringing a number of cases under what's called the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, which is when jurisdictions are discriminating on the basis of zoning against houses of worship, be they Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or any faith.

01:06:04.720 That's right.

01:06:05.080 That's happening throughout the United States.

01:06:07.480 I don't like it when they hassle the Scientologists.

01:06:09.740 I didn't like it when they hassle the Orthodox Jews in Borough Park during COVID. 0.98

01:06:13.640 It's not about—I'm not, you know, Jewish or Scientologists, but, like, I agree with you.

01:06:18.060 People of faith have an interest in religious freedom, period.

01:06:20.940 And we have a federal law that gives them higher than First Amendment protection, that law that I mentioned.

01:06:26.260 And so we're going after Forestburg, New York.

01:06:28.640 We're going after other jurisdictions that are doing this.

01:06:31.140 And so we are going after discrimination in employment, like the Chicago cases.

01:06:37.280 People have been texting me all in the last 24 hours and 48 hours since we started this investigation, giving me other examples of other cities doing the exact same thing.

01:06:47.720 So we have a lot of work cut out for us.

01:06:50.120 The DOJ civil rights generally covers—not exclusively, but generally covers—government discrimination.

01:06:56.220 I mean, occasionally it will aversion to private discrimination.

01:06:59.900 Colorado is forcing a Christian camp to supposedly allow boys to be in the girls' changing rooms. 0.87

01:07:08.440 That's a violation of the religious liberty of the kids and the families going to that Christian camp. 1.00

01:07:14.620 We're going to be going after schools that try to take from parents their natural, God-given, and constitutional right to control their children's education,

01:07:23.620 be it with sexualized curricula or transgenderism that's happening in our schools throughout the United States from the most unlikely places. 0.74

01:07:33.700 And, you know, I kind of joke—I'll start the day at 8 o'clock in the morning or earlier sometimes,

01:07:39.420 and throughout the day, one or the other one of my deputies jumps into my office, and I'm like, oh, what fresh hell is this?

01:07:44.420 The sheer volume of violations of our civil rights happening by the state and local petty bureaucrats and wrong-minded private people throughout the United States is overwhelming sometimes.

01:07:59.900 So if I had 400 lawyers plus at my disposal to go after them, we would keep them busy doing good work for the American people all day long.

01:08:09.520 I think you're a hero, Harmeet, and I will say you're one of the only people in all of Washington, D.C.

01:08:17.160 who doesn't really want to be invited to Politico's White House Correspondents Dinner Party.

01:08:21.560 And I wasn't invited.

01:08:23.820 And that's okay, because I'm too busy working and knitting in my spare time.

01:08:28.240 That's so great.

01:08:29.520 Harmeet Dillon, the Assistant Attorney General of the United States.

01:08:32.080 Thank you.

01:08:32.800 Thank you.

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The Tucker Carlson Show - May 21, 2025

Harmeet Dhillon’s War on the Discrimination Against White Christians and DOJ Corruption

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