The Tucker Carlson Show - Hungary Prime Minister Viktor Orban on USAID, Trump, Immigration, NATO, and the Russia⧸Ukraine War

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00:00:17.700 I will introduce our next guest, who is the longest-serving leader in Europe by far.

00:00:25.080 And he is someone that I interviewed several years ago for the first time.

00:00:29.080 He is, of course, the Prime Minister of Hungary, Viktor Orban.

00:00:33.140 Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister.

00:00:36.580 And I was just thinking back when I worked at a giantly publicly traded news company and interviewed you for the first time.

00:00:45.020 You're a democratically elected leader of a European nation, and it was considered controversial to interview you because your ideas were considered eccentric.

00:00:54.700 And they included emphasis on the middle class and families.

00:00:58.780 They included, above all, secure borders, serving your citizens before you serve foreigners. 0.98

00:01:05.920 And that was all considered super radical and dangerous.

00:01:08.760 And I wonder if you feel vindicated years later by watching what happened to the rest of Europe when they didn't follow those simple ideas.

00:01:16.580 So now we lost all the real attraction, what we have done previously, and Donald Trump took away all the attraction of the international politics.

00:01:31.760 So we have done something for 15 years in Hungary, in a liberal headwind, stopping migration, defending traditional values, respecting religious communities, no Green Deal, low taxation.

00:01:52.340 So everything which is unorthodox in the mind of the liberals.

00:01:57.300 So we were a kind of hero.

00:01:58.840 We were a kind of island of difference in the liberal ocean.

00:02:03.160 But now, unfortunately, Donald Trump taking over everything.

00:02:07.020 So I am just sitting and try to follow him now.

00:02:11.460 This is a totally new reality.

00:02:13.820 And that's, may I say, very much helpful to Hungary.

00:02:18.080 Because, you know, I tried to make some jokes on how the last 15 years was, but it was serious.

00:02:23.380 So when you have one boot from the United States on your chest, and one from Brussels, European Union, trying to kill you and to deliver evidences that that way of government and governance cannot work, it's difficult to survive.

00:02:36.960 So now we remember back in a happy way, but that was very serious.

00:02:41.140 So now at least one boost is out.

00:02:44.780 The Americans not anymore on our chest, not kneeing on our chest.

00:02:48.040 So it's an appeasement.

00:02:49.680 So we think that life is happy.

00:02:51.600 And it will be even happier when we swept away the Brazilian bureaucrats and the other boost is down. 1.00

00:02:57.020 That's the plan.

00:02:57.700 I remember one of your advisors telling me years ago, whispering to me at dinner, that the U.S. government, the State Department and agencies like USAID were working against you, funding your opposition indirectly, and really trying to subvert democracy in your country and thinking, boys, can that be true?

00:03:17.600 It turns out now it is true.

00:03:19.140 And I wonder when the rest of us are going to get details on what exactly the State Department did to end democracy in Hungary.

00:03:26.180 So first of all, I think those who love conspiracy theories are in trouble.

00:03:34.420 They have to find new ones because the word one proved to be true. 1.00

00:03:38.740 So that's the first problem.

00:03:43.600 It's a massive problem in the United States.

00:03:46.500 The second is that, you know, it's a taxpayer money.

00:03:52.120 Yes.

00:03:52.440 So if we take this whole thing not as a political one, but rather as a moral issue, the fact is that the liberal elite of the West used the taxpayers' money of United States citizens to spread their ideology all around the world.

00:04:08.460 And financed in Hungary more than 60 NGOs, paid politicians, media outlets, you know.

00:04:16.240 So it was a plot against our sovereignty and independence.

00:04:22.760 Sorry, made by you.

00:04:24.080 I know.

00:04:24.620 Sorry.

00:04:25.560 But this is the case.

00:04:27.780 And the same has happened from the Brazilian budget, which is even more scandalous, may I say, because we pay the money in the Brazilian budget and they finance our enemies at home.

00:04:38.080 You know, so what's going on?

00:04:39.460 So this is the liberal deep stake, the global liberal deep state.

00:04:44.000 And now we see how it has operated.

00:04:47.320 It raises a deep question of motive.

00:04:50.220 Why would anyone want to spread, you know, deadly ideas like open borders or transgenderism? 1.00

00:05:00.080 Hey, how about no grandchildren for you?

00:05:01.820 How about, you know, nobody reproduces anymore?

00:05:03.760 What would be the motive for spreading poison like that?

00:05:07.840 It should be not naive, I think so.

00:05:10.520 One motivation is always money.

00:05:14.280 So that was a way how the American Democrats thought they can open the gates for their business activity.

00:05:21.280 If they change the governments, which insisted, insisting on having sovereignty and standing and fight for themselves, it's more difficult to find business possibilities for those speculators.

00:05:36.300 Soros, Soros is a Hungarian guy, George Soros kind of speculators can find easier way to generate money and to make profit on your economy.

00:05:44.840 So that's the number one motivation.

00:05:46.740 But the second one, don't forget that leftists are always ideologically driven.

00:05:51.340 And they believe certain things, which for us sounds crazy, even embarrassing, you know, frightening.

00:05:58.600 But they believe it.

00:05:59.800 In Europe, probably it's difficult to understand.

00:06:04.100 But I'm sure that the leaders of the left in Western Europe deeply convinced that if they let the migrants in, which are basically Muslims, poor Muslim persons, and let them to be combined with the traditional Christian society, and they manage a kind of integration, the outcome of this whole process will be a better and happier society. 0.69

00:06:31.720 And that's the reason why George Soros published his plan.

00:06:36.360 It was signed by himself saying that the European Union should let one million migrants every year to move to Europe.

00:06:47.220 And then, you know, I always said that it belongs to the decision of the national government.

00:06:53.140 And so if the Germans or the French would like to make that historical research project, how to improve their society, let's do it.

00:07:02.620 But let us, those who do not believe that the outcome will be a good thing, not to do that.

00:07:08.120 So Hungary never tried to educate anybody how a society could be better or worse. 0.67

00:07:13.800 We always said that, guys, let us to make our own decision and to let migrants in or keep them out. 1.00

00:07:21.100 It's exclusively belonging to our nations as a decision. 0.65

00:07:25.960 So don't force us from Brussels or from Washington that migration is good.

00:07:32.400 And those who are not letting the migrants in definitely must be bad guys. 1.00

00:07:36.260 So this is unacceptable.

00:07:37.620 But that was the thing.

00:07:39.480 But Donald Trump changed the mindset of the West.

00:07:41.840 I think this is the key issue.

00:07:43.000 So probably Donald Trump president will change the geopolitics as well.

00:07:48.600 I hope so anyway.

00:07:50.100 But he already made a huge change in the mindset of the political thinking of the West.

00:07:59.120 Previously, they said migration is good.

00:08:01.860 To resist to migration is bad.

00:08:03.820 Now it's just the opposite.

00:08:05.280 To defend your interest is good.

00:08:06.980 Migration, illegal migration especially, is bad. 0.99

00:08:09.320 Then on the green deal, they said green is good.

00:08:13.880 Economic competitiveness does not count.

00:08:15.820 Now it's obvious that economic competitiveness first and green issues just the second.

00:08:21.060 And then on the religious communities and values, Christianity in our case, you know, it was said that it belonged to the middle age.

00:08:27.820 They made us ridiculous several times, making jokes on us and so on.

00:08:32.080 But now the president said it's a respectful thing. 0.52

00:08:35.380 The community of the believers must enjoy respect, which is good for our society.

00:08:42.160 Or then family in the West.

00:08:45.920 The mindset was that family is also belonging to the past.

00:08:49.420 And other configuration of living together persons is preferable.

00:08:54.820 Now it's back.

00:08:55.500 Traditional values are better than this whole thing.

00:08:58.180 And gender, which is a crazy gender propaganda.

00:09:02.560 Now it's publicly said it's bad.

00:09:05.560 To defend traditional values is good.

00:09:07.840 And war.

00:09:08.920 You know, in Europe in the last three years, it was said always that war is good, peace is bad.

00:09:16.360 Concerning Ukraine-Russia war.

00:09:17.780 So those who argued in favor of peace and peace negotiations and communications said, you are bad guys.

00:09:23.180 The good guys are who are arguing in favor of war. 0.96

00:09:25.200 So now it's totally changed.

00:09:26.420 So Donald Trump president already changed the mindset of the whole Western world.

00:09:31.220 That's where we are at this moment.

00:09:32.380 And it's very good for Hungary.

00:09:33.880 Well, it's certainly a vindication for you.

00:09:36.580 If I could just go back to something you said.

00:09:38.120 You said that Soros and his aligned NGOs and the movement that he represents has pushed these things because they sincerely believe them to be true.

00:09:47.020 But they haven't pushed them on any nation outside the West.

00:09:52.240 No one is pushing China to let in a million or 10 million relative to its size migrants a year.

00:09:57.520 Or India.

00:09:58.240 Or for that matter, Korea or Japan or the Philippines or any other country.

00:10:00.980 It's only Western countries.

00:10:02.980 Why in their mind is it only Western countries that need unrestricted migration?

00:10:07.800 That would request a deeper understanding of the intellectual history of the European political thinking.

00:10:17.660 But there was always a strong leftist liberal community which was not proud being a Westerner.

00:10:27.360 always have perceived its own civilization as something bad.

00:10:33.480 And their intention was not to make it stronger and to maintain and make it stronger, but rather to destroy, to improve by destroying.

00:10:42.120 That's a very communist idea.

00:10:43.680 Deleting the path.

00:10:45.000 That was always the communist idea.

00:10:46.540 So they don't like the West.

00:10:48.840 They don't like their nation.

00:10:50.540 Sometimes they are ashamed to belong to a nation because they think that nation is a bad thing.

00:10:55.880 So if you think that nation is something good and you are proud of it and you think that you have to work for your nation to be competitive and better than the others,

00:11:03.400 it's an awful Nazis, you know, extreme right something.

00:11:06.840 That's their approach.

00:11:09.000 That's the tradition of the European left.

00:11:10.940 And in the latest years, it was brutally witnessed in the everyday political discussion.

00:11:17.920 So I'm a fascist, you know, I'm sitting here like, you know, I'm a bad guy. 0.94

00:11:22.220 I'm a fascist. 0.60

00:11:23.060 I am middle-aged, feudalistic, Christian radicals, you know, so that's who is arguing for peace, which is the worst thing. 1.00

00:11:31.620 That's absurd, may I say.

00:11:33.140 So this has been going on since the end of the last big war, so 80 years, and particularly migration.

00:11:42.060 And so I think we can render some judgment.

00:11:44.400 How has that worked for the big nations of Europe, for Britain, Germany, France?

00:11:48.980 Can we look back and say that experiment was a success?

00:11:53.200 You mean?

00:11:54.200 Migration.

00:11:54.920 Migration? 0.68

00:11:55.600 Unrestricted migration.

00:11:56.500 So we are living in, okay, under a liberal dictatorship intellectually, but politically still we are living in democracies.

00:12:10.800 So public opinion counts.

00:12:13.780 And I think now we have a problem of democracy because of the migration. 0.90

00:12:17.280 It's not just a problem of migration, a problem of democracy.

00:12:19.780 Because if you have an elite, which is not ready to accept the obvious public will of your voters, instead of accepting that forcing against the population their own crazy ideas, it raised the problem of democracy.

00:12:36.540 Right.

00:12:37.040 So that's where we are.

00:12:38.320 Because now there's a quite strong shift in the mindset of the Western societies.

00:12:45.520 Previously, at the beginning of the mass migration period, I'm speaking about 15, 2015, 2016, there were half and half of the societies, even probably more than half, was in favor of doing something good, in favor of those who were considered as refugees.

00:13:10.060 Then slowly but surely turned to be that they are not refugees, basically.

00:13:14.120 They are changing their place.

00:13:15.940 There are some of them refugees, but basically the majority of them would like to get a better life, simply.

00:13:21.140 And they are organized by smugglers.

00:13:23.300 It's an international black business, you know, so it's an awful business. 1.00

00:13:29.420 And now the terrorism, somehow related to these whole changes, just come up to the surface.

00:13:36.400 It's never happened earlier.

00:13:37.860 Terrorism was not part of the Western life anyway.

00:13:40.500 If I remember back, the last one was in the 70s, some crazy communist Marxist group of Germany.

00:13:47.340 But after that, you know, terrorism is not part of the Western life.

00:13:50.900 Violence of public life does not belong to us.

00:13:55.140 But now terrorism is up.

00:13:57.720 You know, public order is dispersing.

00:14:00.520 So now the society is against the mass migration policy.

00:14:04.580 So willkommen culture, as it was called by Angela Merkel, now it's totally negative.

00:14:10.520 And the problem is that the elite was so much committed to that ideology that now it's difficult to change their position.

00:14:18.160 And that leads us to the problem of democracy.

00:14:23.240 As we will see in Germany just soon, election is coming two weeks' time.

00:14:27.380 So, and you probably have realized that there were some surprising discussion in the German parliament whether to change the migration regulation or not.

00:14:36.440 And the public opinion said, 70% said, yes, you should change it.

00:14:40.260 And they voted against it.

00:14:41.980 So it's a problem of democracy.

00:14:43.100 It's not just a problem of migration.

00:14:44.960 It's not a problem of leadership.

00:14:46.720 The whole structure and the system is under pressure at this moment.

00:14:50.740 The word democracy has been changed.

00:14:52.900 Its meaning has been changed in the United States to mean whatever the people in charge want is democracy.

00:14:58.660 But you're referring to it by its traditional meaning, which means what the majority wants, correct?

00:15:04.420 Yes.

00:15:04.860 But at the same time, don't forget that democracy is a word we use too much, probably too often without understanding exactly what does it mean.

00:15:17.240 There are many theories, as you know.

00:15:18.780 But the most relevant one is the Greek origin of the understanding of democracy.

00:15:25.220 They said that democracy means two things at the same time.

00:15:30.240 Participation of the people, involvement.

00:15:33.660 But the involvement of the people must be resulted in good governance.

00:15:37.900 If the involvement of the people, the public opinion, does not result in good governance, it's anarchy.

00:15:43.420 It's not democracy.

00:15:44.100 So democracy means participation of the people by their voting in the major decisions.

00:15:51.520 And the outcome must be a good governance.

00:15:53.740 If one of them is lacking, it's not democracy.

00:15:56.040 And now in Europe, we are heading to a position when the people has a chance to vote, but there is no chance to get good governance.

00:16:03.360 So we are moving, brother, towards a kind of anarchical public life in West Europe.

00:16:10.280 So Germany specifically, from the outside, you're a European leader.

00:16:14.140 But from an American perspective, Germany is the dominant economic player in the continent and the giant.

00:16:21.240 It feels that way from our perspective.

00:16:23.960 And so what is the German economy?

00:16:26.620 What does it look like right now?

00:16:27.940 How would you assess it?

00:16:29.660 The German economy is part of the European bond because we have the single market.

00:16:33.320 And the single market as such is in trouble.

00:16:39.540 I am in politics, international politics for more than 30 years.

00:16:43.640 And I do remember that 30 years ago, the biggest economy of the world was the European Union.

00:16:51.280 And now it's only number three.

00:16:52.720 And if you look at the top five economies of the world, there is no European among them.

00:16:59.340 So European Union, economically, it's not a success story.

00:17:03.360 And the success of European Union will always strongly link to the success of German economy.

00:17:09.880 And now they are suffering and we are suffering.

00:17:12.220 And the reason is very simple.

00:17:14.280 There was a well-functioning, quite well-functioning structure model of the German economy and the European economy.

00:17:22.140 That was cheap Russian energy and well-advanced European technology come together and we are competitive.

00:17:29.720 But now after the war, we isolated ourselves from the cheap energy and there is no new strategy.

00:17:35.960 How we could be competitive.

00:17:37.240 So we have a lost strategy, but we don't have a new one.

00:17:39.780 There is no replacement for the old one.

00:17:41.580 So now the problem is that we don't have compass where we should move.

00:17:45.100 So we are just managing the daily work, but there is no real strategy.

00:17:48.780 What is the future of the European economy?

00:17:50.540 No answer of that.

00:17:51.300 That's the reason why China, United States, because President Trump is back, obviously is in a far better position than we are.

00:18:00.960 Lack of leadership, lack of ideas, lack of visions.

00:18:03.460 That's why we suffer.

00:18:05.040 Well, I mean, the Biden administration imposed the Green New Deal on Germany with high explosives by blowing up Nord Stream.

00:18:11.880 So on many levels, I don't understand.

00:18:14.440 So you have the largest player in NATO committing an act of terror, industrial terrorism against the second largest player in NATO.

00:18:20.880 How does NATO still exist, honestly?

00:18:24.720 And why does nobody say anything about it?

00:18:27.640 Hungary is a small country, you know.

00:18:29.480 So 10 million, you know.

00:18:33.480 Elephants is a different game.

00:18:35.700 It's another league, you know.

00:18:37.260 So that's how they live.

00:18:38.520 If it would have happened with Hungary, there would be some noise.

00:18:41.920 No question of that.

00:18:42.720 But, you know, it's Germany.

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00:20:29.220 If you could just speculate, I know it's not your country, and when all the rest of Europe is gone, I have no doubt Hungary will remain, as it has for, you know, a thousand years. 0.70

00:20:41.060 But why do you think even now there's no country?

00:20:45.200 Nord Stream, to me, as a total outsider, seems like a pivot point in the history of Europe.

00:20:49.980 It really seems like a big deal.

00:20:51.400 I show your point.

00:20:52.060 Right, and obviously, it was also the largest emission of greenhouse gases caused by humans in the history of civilization, and no one mentioned it.

00:21:00.380 So, okay.

00:21:01.960 But why is there no conversation about it?

00:21:04.120 I don't know.

00:21:04.520 I really don't understand that.

00:21:05.840 And every time I bring it up in Europe, people look embarrassed and try to walk away from me.

00:21:09.000 So, I think the basic reason is that in the last several decades, there was a strong alliance between the American liberal elite and the European liberal elite.

00:21:23.020 And they agree always, what is the issue and what is not the issue?

00:21:26.780 If they decided that something is not an issue, it was not an issue.

00:21:30.040 And the Germans were part of that kind of transatlantic liberal alliance.

00:21:36.680 And they were managed to stop all the voices which tried to raise the question, which is a serious one anyway.

00:21:43.160 But anyway, it's not the only one.

00:21:45.580 I do remember some other scandals as well.

00:21:48.620 Beginning of the previous decade, it turned out that the United States, democratic government anyway, taped the Chancellor of Germany.

00:22:00.040 And we were discussing it at the European Council meeting.

00:22:06.140 Charles Cozy, who was the president of France, said, guys, what a scandalous thing is that?

00:22:10.380 We have to do that.

00:22:11.380 The Germans said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:22:14.500 Transatlantic liberation is the most important thing.

00:22:16.860 We have to manage nothing that way and so on.

00:22:19.180 So, that's an alliance between the transatlantic elites from America and the European Union.

00:22:26.220 It hasn't helped, I don't think, the European Union.

00:22:31.480 So, probably that was your sentence, not mine.

00:22:34.380 You know, if a country is not ready to stand up and fight for himself, does not deserve any help from outside.

00:22:40.920 I couldn't agree more.

00:22:43.400 But I also think, and tell me, I'd love your perspective on this.

00:22:46.680 It's my instinct that the fortunes of Europe, the economic fortunes of Europe, security condition of Europe, really matters to the United States.

00:22:54.020 Because it's just inexorably, it's fundamentally part of a bloc.

00:22:58.320 It's the West.

00:22:58.980 So, if Europe declines, I don't see how that helps the U.S.

00:23:04.380 I think the approach of the new incumbent administration of the United States has a very special approach to the other economies.

00:23:19.380 And this is based on facts and figures and concentrate on trade balances.

00:23:24.960 And as far as I was able to understand the way of thinking of this new administration in your country, they see a triangle.

00:23:33.380 Europe, China, United States.

00:23:36.100 And they have a look at the figures.

00:23:38.440 And Europe make a plus 200 billion of trade with the United States.

00:23:44.460 We lose the same sum to China.

00:23:47.260 So, it's basically Europe.

00:23:48.400 Europe is zero.

00:23:49.140 And the European Union make 200 billion euro plus the trade with you, United States.

00:23:58.060 And you lose to China 300. 0.63

00:24:03.060 So, it means that Europe is basically a zero.

00:24:05.760 China plus 500 billion.

00:24:07.860 United States minus 500 billion.

00:24:10.920 And as your president said, it's not good.

00:24:12.620 It's bad.

00:24:13.040 And so, something should be done.

00:24:16.320 And he will do something.

00:24:17.720 He is not, probably the new administration is not thinking about geopolitical concepts of economy.

00:24:22.920 But, you know, figures, facts.

00:24:24.640 And they would like to do something to improve the trade balance.

00:24:28.880 And that's a challenge for Europe.

00:24:30.980 So, it's a serious matter.

00:24:32.740 It's not about friendship.

00:24:33.780 It's not about, you know, love each other, brother in arms.

00:24:37.640 That's very nice.

00:24:38.240 But it's money.

00:24:39.780 It's figures.

00:24:40.120 So, we have to find a solution and to make a deal with the United States.

00:24:44.220 If Europeans are just sitting and waiting, that's not a good strategy. 0.79

00:24:48.680 We should come up with a strategy and to provide something, a deal, proposals to the United States

00:24:54.400 to how to reshape that kind of in a balanced trade relationship.

00:24:58.620 Otherwise, we will get tariffs and we will suffer.

00:25:01.160 We are not strong enough to defend our interest after waiting and losing months and weeks and months.

00:25:06.440 So, but the problem is that Europe now leads by bureaucrats.

00:25:10.940 You know, we have the European Commission.

00:25:14.960 Do you know what is it?

00:25:15.620 The Commission is a bureaucratic body which originally was planned to be the guardian of the treaty.

00:25:22.780 You know, so just to help to maintain the fair legal regulation inside the single market area.

00:25:30.860 But now the bureaucrats are more than 30,000.

00:25:33.260 You know, they're growing, growing, growing.

00:25:34.960 And they took away the leadership from the real prime ministers of Europe.

00:25:39.980 So, now the Commission tries to lead the European Union.

00:25:43.940 But they are bureaucrats.

00:25:44.880 And we have the leadership program because bureaucrats cannot lead anything politically. 0.99

00:25:49.720 When everything is going well, bureaucrats are not harmful because things are going well.

00:25:56.580 But when there are difficulties and decisions must be made, like now we should make an offer to the United States,

00:26:02.340 the bureaucrats will never do that because they are bureaucrats. 0.98

00:26:05.080 Bureaucrats are interested in status quo, not to provide political leadership for your community. 0.99

00:26:09.340 So, that's another problem inside the European Union.

00:26:12.280 But I would not like to speak too much about other countries because my job is to preserve the sovereignty and good chances for the future of my own nation.

00:26:22.380 So, what I am doing now, I try to find a way how we can have a good relation with the United States to make some deals on economy as big as we can.

00:26:30.520 We are working on that and try to create an economic policy which makes Hungary successful, even if the European Union exists or the European Union does not exist.

00:26:39.960 The problem is to be sharp.

00:26:42.280 We have not more than three, four years.

00:26:44.420 And if we don't do something dramatically different strategy, the European Union will fall apart.

00:26:50.380 So, there is a famous study published in Western Europe called Draghi Report.

00:27:00.740 Draghi was the previous head of the European Bank and previously Prime Minister of Italy.

00:27:11.180 And he put together a study.

00:27:13.120 And the study is very clear.

00:27:14.220 If you don't do something in three years' time to push down the price of the energy and to make Europe competitive, especially by creating a capital market at the European Union level, the European Union economy is over.

00:27:28.180 So, now we pay three, four times higher price for the electricity than you do it in the United States.

00:27:35.720 And five, six times higher price for gas than you do in the United States.

00:27:39.540 How our companies can be competitive?

00:27:41.920 It's impossible.

00:27:42.560 And then you run a policy, and Donald Trump president will do so even more, to attract the capitals from all over the world to the United States.

00:27:50.980 So, the capital will move out from Europe to the United States and to other places as well.

00:27:55.320 So, we have to do something to keep the capital inside the European Union.

00:27:58.860 But we don't have a strategy how to do it.

00:28:01.320 So, now the European Union is really at a watershed.

00:28:05.300 But you have ended global warming.

00:28:07.100 Do you feel good about that?

00:28:10.100 Hungary has a nice climate.

00:28:11.320 So, now, but taking seriously the global responsibility, of course.

00:28:16.660 But the problem is not the global climate issue.

00:28:19.040 The problem is that if you would like to find a solution for a global issue like climate issue, you can't do it against the business community.

00:28:29.280 So, if you don't convince the business community that they could be part of this whole process, involvement again, to involve them into that policy.

00:28:39.460 If you don't do that, but ideologically led political movement, green movement, you do like that, you know, it's hopeless. 0.59

00:28:47.140 It will be not successful.

00:28:48.540 Look at the Green Deal.

00:28:49.560 Green Deal is dead.

00:28:50.460 It's a suicide attempt for the European Union.

00:28:52.820 Nobody is sharing of that.

00:28:54.300 We do it and we kill our industry.

00:28:55.740 So, if you would like to have a good green policy, you need the business, the business leaders, and the common strategy.

00:29:02.340 That's the only way.

00:29:03.980 Otherwise, we end up as we are today.

00:29:06.780 So, both the structures that overlay Europe, NATO, and the EU seem like they've played out or they're not working as intended.

00:29:12.880 I think we can say that.

00:29:13.740 And the problem is, the problem is that the European institutions cannot reform it, cannot provide leadership because it's a strange creature of the European Union.

00:29:22.520 So, the only possibility to have a leadership if the French and the German government is strong, stable, visionary, and take the lead.

00:29:31.020 Right.

00:29:32.180 Which is not the case at this moment.

00:29:33.400 So, why not a different structure with, you know, an alliance of countries that have something in common, a common worldview, similar economies, say, east of Switzerland, central and eastern Europe, and then sort of let, you know, France and Britain sort of enjoy the fruits of, you know, of the decisions that they've made.

00:29:53.360 So, we have a strategy anyway.

00:29:56.280 Hungary, that's my job anyway. 0.99

00:29:57.840 We have a strategy, of course.

00:29:59.380 And central European leaders have their own strategy.

00:30:01.620 So, our main criticism to the European Union at this moment, that they launch wars with everybody who could be important partners for your economy.

00:30:10.820 We launched a war on ideology, Donald Trump, President Donald Trump.

00:30:15.220 We launched a war with China on trade issues.

00:30:19.820 We initiated the tariff war with China.

00:30:22.520 And then we launched a war with Russia on energy.

00:30:26.480 So, why is it a good policy?

00:30:28.320 In central Europe, we did just the opposite.

00:30:30.620 We built up a good relation with the new Republican administration.

00:30:35.520 44% of all European investment from China arrived to Hungary last year.

00:30:41.420 44% of all European.

00:30:43.360 And we maintained the communication and cooperation even with the Russians.

00:30:47.680 So, connectivity is the word, not blocking.

00:30:50.120 The European Union tried to build a block instead of running connectivity, strategy based on connectivity and do on a common sense based business with everybody who can provide something good for the European Union.

00:31:03.880 So, but central Europe does exactly what I'm saying about Slovaks do it, Hungary do it, Serbia do it.

00:31:12.020 There's a famous, the first famous picture of you is from 1989 getting arrested by security, Russian-backed security forces.

00:31:18.940 You're a student protest leader against the effective Russian occupation of your country in Eastern Europe.

00:31:24.840 So, with that in mind, I've listened for the past three years to you denounced as a Putin puppet in our press.

00:31:32.800 So, what's your response to that?

00:31:36.540 Are you? 0.99

00:31:39.200 It's so ridiculous that it's always a dilemma to me to react at all or not. 0.97

00:31:44.520 But, okay, if I take it seriously, you know, I am not a pro-Putin man. 0.81

00:31:50.260 I'm a pro-Hungarian guy, you know, because my job is to serve my nation.

00:31:55.440 That's first.

00:31:55.900 Second, we have some memories with the Russians.

00:32:01.300 It's not a honeymoon anyway.

00:32:04.560 You know, Hungary, just to the audience, the Hungary is dominated by always three major powers.

00:32:10.620 One, Germany, I mean, Berlin, then Moscow, and Istanbul.

00:32:14.200 Yeah, so we are living just in the middle of that.

00:32:16.840 Each of them occupied at least once.

00:32:19.940 Russian three, you know. 0.82

00:32:21.040 So, that's the menu card, what you have.

00:32:25.900 If you are living in that peculiar part of the European Union.

00:32:30.540 Sounds like a lot of fun.

00:32:32.780 So, therefore, I decided when I came back to power 2010, and I made a deal with President Russia, President Putin,

00:32:44.500 that whatever was the history between the two nations, let it to the historians and discuss it.

00:32:52.340 And we should find a reasonable cooperation and do it economically as much as we had.

00:32:59.060 And we did.

00:33:00.100 And it worked.

00:33:00.940 It was good.

00:33:01.560 You know, Russians always kept their words. 1.00

00:33:04.860 When we agreed on anything with Putin, that was done.

00:33:07.820 On my side as well.

00:33:09.700 So, therefore, my attitude to the Russians is not that negative and crazy as many of the Western leaders at this moment.

00:33:19.600 And my position on this war between Ukraine and Russia always said that, guys, don't forget that this war is not about Ukraine.

00:33:29.160 Don't make a mistake.

00:33:31.120 The strategical reason of this war is called enlargement of NATO.

00:33:34.860 So, the question is whether we would like to enlarge NATO or not.

00:33:40.180 If we would like to enlarge NATO, the Russians will never accept it.

00:33:43.520 Whether you like it or not, you know, they will not let us to move closer to their borders.

00:33:48.240 But this is the main issue.

00:33:49.760 Enlargement of NATO.

00:33:51.520 So, then, when the war has broken because Russia invaded Ukraine finally to stop the NATO membership and occupy the territories,

00:34:02.460 I said to my colleagues that we should isolate as much as we can and as soon as we can this whole conflict.

00:34:10.980 Otherwise, the conflict will accelerate, eating up more and more money, more and more casualties, more and more deaths.

00:34:18.060 Now, hundreds of thousands of widows.

00:34:20.260 And, you know, when two Slavic nations are in war, it's serious.

00:34:24.980 Because they are both military-based nations.

00:34:28.100 So, it's a tragedy what's going on.

00:34:30.800 It's really brutal.

00:34:32.060 It's not just a geopolitical game, you know.

00:34:34.160 It's a human tragedy, anyway.

00:34:36.800 So, I said, we should isolate them and stop killing.

00:34:40.520 But what now the Western strategy is that keep killing as long as it takes.

00:34:47.340 So, that's what they are doing.

00:34:49.400 So, unfortunately, I remain alone.

00:34:52.620 We voted and I was the only one who was against the involvement of European Union to the war.

00:34:57.680 Later on, now, the Slovakians follow the same track, plus Vatican.

00:35:02.860 So, Vatican, Slovaks and Hungary. 0.51

00:35:05.480 And now, Donald Trump president.

00:35:08.100 So, that's a new story.

00:35:09.820 Because your president following exactly the same track, which was offered by us, I mean, by Hungary in the last three years.

00:35:20.720 So, another good news.

00:35:23.240 So, less than a year in, there was what seems like a pretty meaningful attempt to end it, to settle the conflict.

00:35:29.240 And that was scuttled by the Biden administration using the former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

00:35:34.460 Why do you think the Biden administration wanted the war to continue and it wasn't just Johnson, it was the UK more broadly.

00:35:45.940 Its whole political establishment was fanatically, is to this day fanatically.

00:35:50.660 What is that?

00:35:51.840 They're not historic enemies, by the way, keep in mind.

00:35:54.440 They were allied in the last big war.

00:35:56.660 They've never been invaded by Russia. 0.68

00:35:58.420 Like, why is Britain so intent on killing all these Ukrainians? 0.99

00:36:01.460 I don't understand. 0.63

00:36:02.100 Is it my job to answer to that?

00:36:04.900 Yes.

00:36:06.580 I don't think so.

00:36:07.640 You're the longest serving leader in Europe, I thought you might have.

00:36:10.840 No, you don't.

00:36:12.020 When I will, in my years in pension, I'm ready to answer to that.

00:36:17.580 I try to survive, rather.

00:36:20.020 Totally fair.

00:36:22.900 Can you just describe, for those who haven't, I mean, you're very much, you know, you're not far from the fighting, by the way, for people who haven't looked at a map.

00:36:29.700 So, can you describe the effects on Europe of this war, for those of us who don't live on the continent?

00:36:34.980 Like, what effects has this had, do you think?

00:36:38.220 So, just start with a very narrow Hungarian approach.

00:36:42.860 Because of the sanctions and the war, we are losing every year around 7 billion euro.

00:36:48.960 So, Hungary is a small country, can you imagine?

00:36:52.940 Just Hungary? 0.93

00:36:53.460 Just Hungary, just Hungary, just Hungary. 0.82

00:36:55.480 So, altogether, we don't know the figures exactly, but Europe spent close to 200 billion euro, which is out of the European economy.

00:37:04.140 So, it's a sum.

00:37:07.440 That's first.

00:37:09.560 Second, we isolated ourselves from the Russian economy, including the energy, which will have a long-term impact on us as well, as I said.

00:37:21.680 Losing our work, well-functioning economic strategy as a basis of the European economy.

00:37:29.020 Anyway, the third one is the migrants. 0.97

00:37:33.360 I mean, they are not migrants, they are really refugees. 0.99

00:37:36.400 So, the Ukrainians left the country. 0.87

00:37:39.080 Nobody knows exactly how many, but tens of millions.

00:37:41.520 So, we are speaking about a country, which one-fifth or one-fourth of the territory is occupied by Russia.

00:37:49.720 The industrial area is totally destroyed, and the people are just escaping.

00:37:55.140 So, it's really a tragedy.

00:37:57.100 And if President Trump is not able to find a solution, that war could become easily an Afghanistan for the European Union.

00:38:10.820 Endless war, endless conflict, no way out of the conflict, eating up energy, human lives, money, everything.

00:38:19.380 Destroying the frame of normal life for the European Union.

00:38:23.240 So, we are in a serious danger.

00:38:25.840 The difficulty is, and that's not my challenge, but it's a challenge to President Trump,

00:38:31.980 how to convince the Russians to stop the war while the Russians are basically winning.

00:38:39.300 This is the big question.

00:38:42.020 Luckily enough, it's not my job to find an answer again.

00:38:45.560 But I'm convinced that if you try to find a solution just directly on the war between Russia and Ukraine,

00:38:53.960 you will never find a solution.

00:38:55.840 So, we should make a bigger basket to incorporate the issue of reintegration of Russia

00:39:03.180 into the international security order, to reintegrate Russia into the European security system,

00:39:10.400 and to find a way of economic cooperation, basically energy, plus Ukraine.

00:39:15.560 If you make that kind of bigger basket, probably there is a chance for the deal.

00:39:20.700 If it's narrowly, directly concentrating just Ukraine and Russia,

00:39:25.580 it's a real challenge, intellectually and politically, to any President of the United States.

00:39:31.640 But it's not my job again.

00:39:32.660 I mean, from an American perspective, the Biden administration has succeeded in driving Russia into deep integration with China,

00:39:41.220 deep integration, both economically and militarily, and that's terrible from our perspective.

00:39:46.120 But to come back and try and bring Russia back into swift, even something as simple as that, 0.97

00:39:52.920 you're fighting against three years of some of the most vicious, over-the-top,

00:39:59.640 leave-no-room-for-compromise rhetoric about Russia, where Putin is daily described as Hitler.

00:40:05.160 So can you actually do that once these words have been spoken?

00:40:10.480 No.

00:40:11.220 Right?

00:40:12.240 No way back.

00:40:13.800 So I think, you know, we are different nations.

00:40:18.260 It's not my job to make any comment, neither, on Russia, but Russia is a military-based country.

00:40:23.380 So the mindset is about, okay, the mindset for you, mindset for me, when we speak about democracy,

00:40:29.460 what is the first question which came to my mind?

00:40:31.620 And you concentrate your ideas around freedom, yeah?

00:40:35.300 Of course.

00:40:35.960 Okay, but it's not the case in Russia.

00:40:38.200 In case of Russia, it's security of the nation. 0.97

00:40:41.140 Then democracy and other issues, which are important, but the number one is,

00:40:44.780 because it's a too big country, to keep it together,

00:40:47.440 it is number one historical challenge and a mission for the leaders.

00:40:50.740 So it's a different mindset again.

00:40:52.880 So if you have that kind of country, and you insult them politically, 0.97

00:40:58.740 try to isolate them politically, try to kill them economically, 0.75

00:41:03.000 then support his enemy by all the means.

00:41:07.980 And after a few years, you say, no, we don't think too much seriously,

00:41:12.520 so come back and cooperate with us.

00:41:14.360 It does not work.

00:41:15.020 So we made a historical mistake, which is decisive for at least 100 years,

00:41:22.680 and based cement the Chinese-Russian cooperation for 100 years.

00:41:29.160 So we have to see that kind of bloc as a bloc.

00:41:33.260 Probably Russia will make a deal with us on many issues,

00:41:35.880 but we'll never give up that kind of final background, what China means.

00:41:40.620 If you would be in the shoes of Vladimir Putin, I think you would do the same thing.

00:41:45.740 Never give up that kind of background, which was the real and only background.

00:41:50.320 Can you imagine if China would not be in that relation with Russia

00:41:53.840 and use the possibility of being attacked from the West

00:41:56.260 and try to squeeze from the East Russia?

00:41:59.840 But Chinese did not do so.

00:42:02.400 They said, we don't accept that kind of Western approach to this war.

00:42:07.120 So it's historic.

00:42:10.020 It's not just a war of the decade.

00:42:12.000 It will have an impact for long, long, long, long decades.

00:42:15.040 We will live with that.

00:42:15.800 Even our kids will live in that age.

00:42:17.700 But Russia will never come back to the West as it was. 1.00

00:42:21.080 Never again.

00:42:22.660 Sorry to say that.

00:42:23.500 I'm not happy with that because Russia is too close to Hungary.

00:42:28.880 And Ukraine.

00:42:30.520 What is basically, again, the problem?

00:42:33.280 The Russians accepted in a very difficult way

00:42:40.120 that Central European countries like my home, Hungary,

00:42:43.800 became members of NATO.

00:42:44.900 They always criticized that move, saying that it's unfair because it was promised.

00:42:52.660 Nobody knows exactly whether did it happen or not.

00:42:54.920 But it was promised that the ex-Soviet Union-dominated territories will now join NATO.

00:43:01.060 But we did.

00:43:02.420 Good for us anyway.

00:43:03.920 And then the Russians started to live with that. 0.95

00:43:07.160 And in that concept, Ukraine was the buffer zone between NATO and Russia.

00:43:14.300 And then now, as we started to incorporate more and more Ukraine,

00:43:19.220 first at the military level, developing their army,

00:43:23.440 then even at the diplomatic level to speak about the possible membership of Ukraine to NATO,

00:43:28.680 we converted the buffer zone into a war zone.

00:43:31.540 So it's not anymore a buffer zone.

00:43:34.240 That's the problem.

00:43:35.980 And it's history.

00:43:37.120 It's not about one or two decades issue.

00:43:41.460 So how we imagine the territory between the NATO and Russia,

00:43:46.460 how we call it and how to manage it,

00:43:48.200 how we provide the future for the people and the territory.

00:43:51.280 So these are the real big and difficult challenges ahead of us.

00:43:56.220 One big change.

00:43:57.100 When we jumped into the war, that was always my argument to the Westerners, 1.00

00:44:01.720 that don't consider that war as our own war.

00:44:06.260 It's not a war of the West.

00:44:07.940 It's a war between two Slavic nations,

00:44:10.220 a brutal but a brotherhood war, Russians and Ukrainians.

00:44:15.020 Isolate them, help them, but don't say that this is our war.

00:44:19.660 That's exactly what you have done.

00:44:21.320 Basically, Biden president came to Warsaw and said,

00:44:25.140 Putin must fail.

00:44:27.040 Guys, it means that you are in the war.

00:44:29.400 So why we have done it?

00:44:30.820 Nobody knows the answer of that, you know.

00:44:32.820 So it was a very short-sighted idea.

00:44:36.040 Probably they thought that they could make weakened Russia.

00:44:38.700 I was always sure at the very first moment that a war will make Russia stronger 1.00

00:44:42.700 than it was prior to the war.

00:44:44.640 That's our history.

00:44:46.080 First World War, Second World War.

00:44:47.540 When they start the war, they are weaker.

00:44:50.220 As the war is going ahead, they are getting stronger and stronger and stronger.

00:44:53.960 That's the lesson of the Hungarian history.

00:44:56.320 It's the time of year we focus on the people who matter most in our lives.

00:44:59.160 And if there's one way to show your family, the people you love, that you love them,

00:45:03.340 it's by protecting their health and their safety.

00:45:05.620 And a really obvious way to do that is by preparing for unpredicted moments.

00:45:10.740 And there are a lot of those.

00:45:12.140 Breakdown in supply chains, overwhelmed hospitals, natural disasters, wars.

00:45:17.260 Whatever happens next, you can't see it coming, but you can be prepared for most of it.

00:45:20.940 And that's why a Jace case works.

00:45:23.520 A Jace case is a personal supply of prescribed emergency medications.

00:45:27.920 So if things fall apart, you're okay.

00:45:30.780 There's an unexpected global disruption.

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00:45:35.260 So this February, show them you care.

00:45:37.920 Get the Jace case today.

00:45:39.200 You'll have the right meds on hand when you need them.

00:45:42.740 You only need them once.

00:45:43.820 You ought to have them.

00:45:45.280 It's the time of year we focus on the people who matter most in our lives.

00:45:48.080 And if there's one way to show your family, the people you love, that you love them,

00:45:52.000 it's by protecting their health and their safety.

00:45:54.420 And a really obvious way to do that is by preparing for unpredicted moments.

00:45:59.720 And there are a lot of those.

00:46:01.080 Breakdown in supply chains, overwhelmed hospitals, natural disasters, wars.

00:46:06.220 Whatever happens next, you can't see it coming, but you can be prepared for most of it.

00:46:09.860 And that's why a Jace case works.

00:46:12.480 A Jace case is a personal supply of prescribed emergency medications.

00:46:16.860 So if things fall apart, you're okay.

00:46:19.700 There's an unexpected global disruption.

00:46:21.680 You can protect yourself and your loved ones.

00:46:24.660 So this February, show them you care.

00:46:26.880 Get the Jace case today.

00:46:28.140 You'll have the right meds on hand when you need them.

00:46:31.600 You only need them once.

00:46:32.740 You ought to have them.

00:46:33.820 So the whole point of market capitalism is consumer choice.

00:46:38.880 You have a choice between products and services.

00:46:41.900 And the competition between companies makes the goods and services better.

00:46:47.080 That's the core idea.

00:46:48.380 Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of monopolies out there.

00:46:52.020 Monopolies are not good for consumers.

00:46:53.940 They are not good for you.

00:46:55.920 And one of the places where there's effectively a monopoly is in wireless contracts.

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00:47:43.880 You were the first person.

00:47:45.020 I mean, I live in the United States, so I live in such a North Korean news vacuum that I was shocked when I spoke to you in the summer of 2022 and asked, who do you think will win this war?

00:47:54.220 And you laughed.

00:47:54.880 And you said, have you looked at the populations?

00:47:57.480 Russia's 100 million more people.

00:47:58.800 And I thought, why have I never heard this before?

00:48:00.320 Everything you're saying now is what you were saying two and a half years ago, and you were proven right. 0.99

00:48:06.660 I'm not happy with that anyway.

00:48:07.800 No, I know.

00:48:08.740 But I guess what I'm saying is Western policymakers also have access to Wikipedia.

00:48:15.160 So how did they not know this?

00:48:20.200 I think two reasons.

00:48:21.600 One is that they have an interpretation of the Second World War, that Russia was able to win against Germany just because the Anglo-Saxons supported them.

00:48:34.540 That's first.

00:48:35.440 Second, you know...

00:48:36.160 May I ask you to pause?

00:48:37.160 And you don't believe that's true.

00:48:39.100 I think to a certain extent it was true.

00:48:41.540 So a lot of support came from the United States, especially to Russia, especially ammunition, weapons, and so on.

00:48:48.780 So I can't say that that was the precondition.

00:48:51.340 I don't underestimate the heroic attempts of the Russians to defend their own land, even against the Hungarians anyway, because we were on the other side.

00:48:59.240 But it's true that the alliance with the West played a role that Russia was able to survive the German attacks.

00:49:07.120 So that's exaggeration on the Western side of that story, probably.

00:49:13.440 And the second, don't forget that in the 90s, I was prime minister when President Putin came into power.

00:49:24.620 1990.

00:49:25.480 I was first time prime minister at that time.

00:49:27.320 And I do remember how was the 90s.

00:49:29.500 In the 90s, there was the Washington Consensus, which is a theory of how to reorganize the world economy, privatization, competitiveness, and so on.

00:49:43.280 And global capitalists started to invest into Russia.

00:49:48.720 Russia, and they had a feeling that now they find the key how to integrate the Russian economy and the huge, vast Russian territories and the raw materials, energy supply territories into the world economy.

00:50:01.360 That was the 90s.

00:50:03.460 And they did it.

00:50:04.540 They made a huge amount of money.

00:50:07.760 George Soros, who I always would focus to follow anyway to understand what's going on, did it.

00:50:15.340 But the Russians were not satisfied with that at all.

00:50:18.900 And then there was a change.

00:50:21.060 President Putin came to power and said, guys, this integration to the world economy, not the way which is serving the interest of Russia.

00:50:28.060 And they cut many things.

00:50:29.980 And many Americans and European investors have to realize some losses.

00:50:35.800 And I think the idea that they were so close to get it, to get the major source of the profit.

00:50:42.540 And it was taught by the same man, there is a personal revenge element in their way of thinking.

00:50:50.540 I'm sure of that.

00:50:51.320 Sorry, that's too much probably to say about it.

00:50:53.380 No, that's a very diplomatic description.

00:50:55.800 From our perspective, it looked like looting by Western businesses that resulted in like the lowest life expectancy in Europe by far.

00:51:02.760 And the story from Putin's ascension in 2000 is climbing Russian life expectancy, which I think is a fair measure of a country's health.

00:51:12.540 And there's deep resentment that he didn't allow foreign business interests to dominate his country.

00:51:17.300 I mean, fair?

00:51:18.900 The Russians had their own concept how they would like to be integrated into the world economy.

00:51:24.240 And that concept was different from the American concept and from the European concept, of course.

00:51:29.920 Hungary is part of that.

00:51:31.540 So when we realize what is the new strategy of the Russians, the Hungarian companies went to Russia to make their business.

00:51:38.520 I'm sure that from the Emirates they are doing their businesses as well, and the Saudis and others.

00:51:43.600 So they have a country.

00:51:44.780 They would not like to be isolated.

00:51:47.240 They would be part of the world economy based on the Russian interest, not on the Washington consensus principles or something like that, you know.

00:51:55.960 But it's their country.

00:51:57.740 Whether we like it or not, whether we are around, it's their country.

00:52:00.640 They make their choice.

00:52:02.000 If it's their decision, we have to adjust ourselves, not to force them to change their mind, you know.

00:52:05.940 It's not our job.

00:52:07.300 At least this is the Hungarian approach. 0.95

00:52:09.360 Probably not the American, but definitely the Central European.

00:52:13.600 They are too close.

00:52:14.580 Don't forget, they're too close.

00:52:15.640 I know you don't forget that.

00:52:19.560 How would you rate Zelenskyy as the leader of Ukraine?

00:52:24.520 So first of all, even if I have many critical remarks, it does not matter if we take the proper vantage point to see what has happened in Ukraine in the last years.

00:52:39.380 They decided to go into a war, to defend their own territory, their own right to join NATO and to be part of the Western architecture, security and economic architecture.

00:52:54.180 That was their decision.

00:52:55.880 And they fight for it.

00:52:57.700 And they lost hundreds of thousands of lives.

00:53:01.840 And they fight heroically.

00:53:04.260 So I'm very cautious to make any critical remarks on the president or Ukraine, because what they have done is really something heroic and historical, to resist to that power like Russia for that long time, you know. 0.58

00:53:20.000 So it's whatever political mistakes they have done, the fact itself, the fight, you know, and sacrifice is something we have to say that that's really heroic.

00:53:30.380 Yes.

00:53:30.560 So that's number one.

00:53:34.400 Number two, I think it was a misunderstanding on their behalf, the real intention of the West.

00:53:42.920 And they thought that the West will support them forever.

00:53:47.700 And therefore, their behavior was not exactly as it would be seen as normal.

00:53:55.160 Because if you are in trouble, you need help, you are going to somewhere to ask, it's not the right tone as they communicate with us.

00:54:07.100 Anyway, so, but they thought that they can do so, because the West will remain behind them forever.

00:54:15.440 If you understand well the history of the Western politics, this is a misconcept, may I say.

00:54:21.720 Like, that's not what the West did in the last several years.

00:54:27.220 Yeah.

00:54:27.540 No.

00:54:28.160 No.

00:54:28.500 So I was sure that sooner or later, they will be let alone and say, guys, war is over, financial support is over, military support is over, let's make a deal.

00:54:38.520 Even if you have huge losses, this is the right moment.

00:54:41.400 We would not like to risk World War III.

00:54:44.360 We would not like to risk a direct conflict with Russia on military fields.

00:54:50.100 So my heart is with the Ukrainians, but they are in a big, big, big trouble because of the position they have now on this whole issue.

00:55:02.080 Many billions of dollars of Western weapons have flowed into Ukraine.

00:55:05.920 A lot of them have been sold.

00:55:07.740 It's a fact.

00:55:08.900 And I wonder if you're concerned about the effect on your security of this.

00:55:15.140 I mean, you have lots of weapons floating around anywhere.

00:55:17.120 It's dangerous.

00:55:17.580 And is anyone keeping track of some of these advanced weapons, actually, where they are?

00:55:24.780 So just again, very cautiously.

00:55:28.020 And now everybody thinks that we have a problem called Russia, which is true. 1.00

00:55:33.780 But then soon we will have another problem called Ukraine. 0.90

00:55:38.700 Yes.

00:55:38.840 So I think that's right.

00:55:44.240 So the new Defense Secretary of the United States, Pete Hegseth, gave a speech two days ago in which he started by saying Ukraine is not joining NATO.

00:55:54.400 So that's the core.

00:55:55.740 That question was the cause of this war.

00:55:57.760 That's the baseline demand of Russia.

00:55:59.800 I think it makes intuitive sense to even people who don't like Russia can understand why they want that.

00:56:03.120 So now that the United States has just said that, is that the basis of a peace?

00:56:09.600 What else do we need to get to peace?

00:56:12.580 You live in the United States and it's probably difficult to imagine the strength of liberal dictatorship of public life we are living under in Europe.

00:56:24.060 So, you know, the pressure from the liberal public opinion is so strong on the leaders that in the last three years, all the European leaders follow the same track.

00:56:38.760 So try to imagine that a big European nation leader says that we have to support Ukraine, whatever does it take.

00:56:49.100 We have to do, this is a moral based position.

00:56:52.020 We can't change it.

00:56:52.900 And they should join NATO and we are arguing in favor of that.

00:56:57.420 And then, just to say next weekend, guys, there are some changes in the world.

00:57:02.240 So our principally base position is over and now, you know, turn like that.

00:57:07.100 So to make that change with the present leadership, it's difficult to imagine.

00:57:12.580 I would not like to make nasty jokes, but now because of the American decision, it's really time for sober up.

00:57:20.200 But they are in the phase of re-drinking, you know, so it takes time to change the direction of the sheep.

00:57:29.540 Just today, they issued a paper, they issued a statement.

00:57:31.960 The big European nation saying that they continue as they have done, regardless of what the Americans have said.

00:57:38.560 That's just this morning.

00:57:40.420 Are we going to have to invade France?

00:57:42.500 Is that what you're saying?

00:57:45.060 Sorry, sorry.

00:57:45.780 Just kidding.

00:57:47.100 No one wants France at this point.

00:57:51.520 Sorry.

00:57:51.920 Discussing another.

00:57:53.060 Sorry, sorry, sorry.

00:57:53.700 Yeah, another forum, another forum.

00:57:55.340 Totally get it.

00:57:58.600 Optimistically, though, if you believe, you know, I think the Trump administration really, the president has said it a number of times, we need to end this.

00:58:07.460 Do you think it's possible that we see like a permanent resolution within the next six months?

00:58:12.760 Is that realistic to hope for that?

00:58:14.380 Yes, definitely.

00:58:15.360 Even earlier.

00:58:16.480 Really?

00:58:17.040 Yeah, I think so.

00:58:18.120 You know, serious guys.

00:58:21.300 So strong men make peace.

00:58:23.140 Weak men makes war.

00:58:25.500 That's so simple.

00:58:26.500 Now we have strong leaders.

00:58:30.700 But last question, and I appreciate this, and I want to say before you leave, I'll just say it. 0.98

00:58:35.760 I don't mind sucking up.

00:58:36.620 I think there's a reason you're the longest-serving leader in Europe. 0.98

00:58:39.120 I think history, for all the criticism you've taken, will.

00:58:42.300 Don't forget that I have another record I hold.

00:58:46.100 It's more important.

00:58:46.920 Longest-serving leader of opposition in Europe.

00:58:51.420 16 years.

00:58:52.300 Just because I'm accused not to be democratic, you know, don't forget that, okay, 19 years in government, that's something.

00:59:00.360 But 16 years in opposition, and to lead, that's even more.

00:59:03.780 So I had that record as well.

00:59:05.140 So I know both sides of democracy, the sunny one and the raining one as well.

00:59:10.220 So I never left politics.

00:59:11.720 Even I lost the election.

00:59:12.840 So I'm a political animal who is running a democratic political architecture and machinery in my country.

00:59:20.200 Sorry for interrupting.

00:59:20.940 What did you enjoy more, honestly?

00:59:22.360 When I was in opposition, I had more time to deal with football.

00:59:30.320 Which is a real issue, anyway.

00:59:32.480 Where do you think the European public is?

00:59:36.260 You said a couple of times that the behavior of the leadership of some Western nations calls into question democracy itself.

00:59:44.100 Is there accurate public polling information on how Europeans, Spanish, French, Portuguese, Brits, how they actually feel about the war in Ukraine?

00:59:55.240 We do run that.

00:59:57.680 So I run that kind of opinion polls.

01:00:00.180 So I have a view on all European countries.

01:00:03.140 And I can say that the majority is moving to the peace position.

01:00:08.620 And the pro-peace is bigger now.

01:00:10.760 There's a majority of the pro-peace in the European public opinion in general.

01:00:15.280 There are some one or two countries which is exceptional.

01:00:19.320 All the others belonging to the same track.

01:00:21.420 More, more, more for peace.

01:00:22.700 But there is another opinion, Paul, which is even more important.

01:00:25.840 I would not like to divert this conversation.

01:00:29.080 But we run every year and we ask the Europeans, what do you think about the life of your children?

01:00:37.320 Will they have a better future and better life than you have now?

01:00:41.220 Or it will be worse?

01:00:43.340 And, you know, all the Western countries says worse.

01:00:47.040 All the Central European countries says better.

01:00:48.840 So this is the real difference now inside the continent between the Western countries and the Central European countries.

01:00:57.000 So we still believe, occupied countries by the Soviet Union, communist dictatorship, regardless of that,

01:01:03.920 we still believe that we can create a better future for our kids than we live today.

01:01:08.960 But the Westerners think just the opposite of that.

01:01:11.740 So that's another very interesting structural difference inside the single market and the European Union.

01:01:16.980 Because your life force is intact.

01:01:19.320 Because, because, that's one, but the other one, what we have now, we fight for.

01:01:26.000 We fought for it.

01:01:27.220 You know, democracy, freedom.

01:01:29.800 You know, the Western generations who are now in power and ruling the countries, 0.55

01:01:36.080 when they were born, there was democracy and freedom in the Western part of Europe.

01:01:39.880 I spent 26 years of my life in communist dictatorship, you know, I haven't inherited freedom or democracy.

01:01:48.660 We fought for it, you know, we did it.

01:01:50.240 We get it.

01:01:50.860 So we, we, we fought for it.

01:01:54.080 So therefore, we are absolutely convinced that we did it not in vain.

01:01:58.620 It was a science.

01:01:59.340 And we are able to create and build up countries, central Europe, after 45 years of Soviet occupation and communist dictatorship,

01:02:06.960 which, which our kids will enjoy and deserve.

01:02:12.100 So, democracy and freedom in central part of, in, in, in, in Eastern and central part of Europe is a serious thing.

01:02:20.580 It's part of our life.

01:02:21.700 It's belong to our heart.

01:02:22.900 It's, it's the essence of our life.

01:02:24.880 In Western societies, you know, they inherited.

01:02:26.980 It's, it's, it's a given thing.

01:02:29.440 Even the middle class, while living, while being, uh, uh, convenient way of life also.

01:02:35.860 So it's, when we see, when you look at the European Union and Europe, don't think that it's, uh, it's, it's the same everywhere.

01:02:42.860 So there are differences, not just on national basis, but on historical basis as well.

01:02:47.480 And I don't know what is the future of the Western Europe, but I'm totally convinced that Central Europe and Eastern Europe,

01:02:53.160 Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Serbia has a definite bright future.

01:02:59.900 I'm sure of that.

01:03:01.240 I am too.

01:03:02.000 Mr. Prime Minister, thank you.

01:03:03.140 Thank you very much.

01:03:07.000 That was wonderful.

01:03:08.300 Thank you.

01:03:08.760 Thank you.

01:03:09.040 Thank you.

01:03:09.060 Thank you.

01:03:09.080 Thank you.

01:03:09.100 Thank you.

01:03:09.120 Thank you.

01:03:11.100 Thank you.

01:03:13.100 Thank you.

01:03:15.100 Thank you.

01:03:17.100 Thank you.

01:03:19.100 Thank you.

01:03:21.100 Thank you.

The Tucker Carlson Show - February 14, 2025

Hungary Prime Minister Viktor Orban on USAID, Trump, Immigration, NATO, and the Russia⧸Ukraine War

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