The Tucker Carlson Show - Jay Dyer： Demons in Hollywood, CIA, Secret Societies, Lone Gunmen, Epstein & Attacks on Christianity

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00:00:30.000 Jay Dyer, thank you very much for doing this. I have a lot of questions to ask you, but I want

00:00:37.760 to begin with orthodoxy. You are one of the most visible and maybe effective evangelists for

00:00:47.400 orthodoxy, Christian orthodoxy, certainly in your age cohort, maybe in the country.

00:00:55.100 You're orthodox. Why are you orthodox? What is orthodoxy?

00:00:57.480 uh i'm orthodox because i went through a long journey trying to figure out what authentic

00:01:05.320 christianity is and so i was raised baptist that took me eventually into catholicism when i was

00:01:11.060 about 20 21 i think i read saint augustine city of god i read a bunch of his other works and i

00:01:17.820 thought well baptist isn't right because i'm finding in the church fathers all these teachings

00:01:23.000 that are not Baptist, and so that kind of gradually took me in the realm of traditional

00:01:28.260 Roman Catholicism, did that for a long time, and as you get into, I think, the more recent

00:01:35.140 problems of Vatican II, post-Vatican II theology, that led me to the question of how do I reconcile

00:01:42.380 this with what I know the first thousand years of Christianity teaches. So long story short,

00:01:47.720 it took me about eight or ten years. I finally came to the Orthodox Church about ten years ago,

00:01:52.200 So that's the simplest, quickest reason is because I think it's-

00:01:56.600 The first thousand years of Christianity, I think to most modern Christians, certainly 0.61

00:02:00.780 American Christians, that's like a black hole.

00:02:03.140 What does that even mean, the first thousand years of Christianity?

00:02:05.560 It's an area that we're not taught.

00:02:07.140 I know that when I went to college, the only thing that we talked about from that whole

00:02:11.700 period was like Augustine's Confessions and maybe one other book or two.

00:02:16.880 Then we have something called the Dark Ages and nothing happens.

00:02:19.320 Nothing about Byzantium.

00:02:20.360 It didn't even exist.

00:02:22.200 And then like these people called the Medici's make a ton of money in Italy and start funding beautiful art.

00:02:26.920 And that's the beginning of civilization.

00:02:29.140 So I, and I remember at college, I was like pressing the department, like, why don't we study some medieval stuff, some Byzantine stuff?

00:02:37.520 And they were like, why should we?

00:02:39.860 We don't care about that Christian stuff.

00:02:41.640 So, yeah, I think there's probably a little bit of an intentional desire to suppress that for, I mean, American education, I think it's pretty much brainwashing. 0.50

00:02:50.180 So, but one sentence, this might take between Constantine in the 4th century and the Renaissance, you had Christian civilization.

00:03:02.440 The most successful empire in history is the Byzantine Empire, from Constantine all the way up until the fall of Byzantium to the Muslims.

00:03:13.140 Why do you say it's the most successful?

00:03:15.740 It's a common sort of academic assessment just in terms of they flourished on a gold standard for a really long time.

00:03:22.720 They started clipping the gold, money clipping, like the Roman Empire in the West had done before them and other empires.

00:03:28.940 So they fell prey to usury as well.

00:03:31.860 So they fell to a lot of the same issues that empires tend to fall to.

00:03:37.680 Human weakness and recognizable stuff.

00:03:41.120 Degeneracy, all of that.

00:03:42.300 But also rabid nationalism had a tendency to break down empires as well.

00:03:49.360 I like Spangler, and I think if you read Oswald Spangler, he talks about how there's kind of a life cycle.

00:03:53.100 But I think the unique aspect of the business empire was that it was explicitly Christian, based on Orthodox Christianity.

00:04:00.360 And so in many metrics of what it is to be successful or flourishing, it flourished.

00:04:06.120 But it did fall.

00:04:07.660 And I think, again, I'm not trying to measure Christianity just on worldly success, but I do think it does play out in that way at times, right?

00:04:15.960 If you're really based around Christ, if your theology or civilization is logocentric, then it's going to play out that way.

00:04:23.380 You're just going to prosper because you're aligned with what's true.

00:04:27.100 You're aligned with that transcendent source.

00:04:29.260 So anyway, for me, that journey ended up being eventually Orthodox Christianity.

00:04:35.740 So, but just real quick back to the Byzantine Empire, did you know it existed before?

00:04:41.600 How many people are aware that there was a Byzantine Empire and know anything about its outlines?

00:04:46.460 Not many people in the West.

00:04:47.820 Again, there is a very clear, especially if you take humanities courses, you know, the way they're constructed in college and maybe even younger private type schools.

00:04:58.220 Like you go from, you do the pre-Socratics, you do Plato and Aristotle, and then you do Augustine, maybe a Stoic or two, and then you jump to Descartes.

00:05:08.420 So you skip that whole period.

00:05:10.700 And not just to say Byzantium, but also, you know, the Latin West was, you know, explicitly Christian as well.

00:05:17.460 I think that's, it's intentionally overlooked.

00:05:19.880 They don't want people reading what brilliant thinkers were doing in the Middle Ages because this is where we get universities.

00:05:28.300 Universities come out of Byzantium. 0.96

00:05:30.720 They come out of the West.

00:05:33.460 So do hospitals.

00:05:35.240 So some of these very fundamental, science itself actually comes out of that whole period.

00:05:39.060 But we are taught, we think that, no, these are all post-enlightenment, post-scientific revolution developments.

00:05:45.040 They're not.

00:05:45.400 They're medieval developments.

00:05:46.160 So a lot of that suppressed, a lot of that I had to kind of just read and learn on my own.

00:05:50.500 I mean, medieval is an adjective, but also an epithet that's medieval.

00:05:55.900 By design.

00:05:56.820 Drawing and quartering somebody, the dark ages, they were dark.

00:05:59.860 That's all Voltaire, that's all sort of an atheistic French revolutionary attack on what came before, by design.

00:06:09.300 When did you learn that?

00:06:10.520 well i was really interested in medieval thought scholastic theology in college in my 20s and so i

00:06:20.020 was reading aquinas and reading all these guys as i had all these atheist professors who were

00:06:25.300 constantly debating with them um i even did i did a public debate my sophomore year with the

00:06:31.540 atheist professor so i would be reading all those guys studying philosophy and history and then

00:06:36.720 debating with those guys and then coming to you know my own conclusions about that stuff

00:06:41.160 through just reading so interesting i keep interrupting your show so that led you to

00:06:47.760 orthodoxy long story short yeah roundabout way i went from traditional catholicism in my 20s to

00:06:54.820 eventually i took about eight to ten years to study orthodox stuff pretty intensely so that

00:06:59.660 would be because i'd put a lot of time into reading the the latin church fathers so i was

00:07:03.800 reading jerome and ambrose and a lot of augustine's works and then i realize i've never actually read

00:07:10.300 the eastern church fathers and if you get into church history in that first millennium that you

00:07:14.420 talked about you realize that all the seven slash eight ecumenical councils of that first millennium

00:07:20.020 they're actually all had in the east they're all called by the emperors the business they're not

00:07:24.880 called by the pope certainly the pope was either there or had legates there so the west was

00:07:29.360 represented, but it was in its ethos, it was essentially Eastern and Eastern in its Orthodox

00:07:37.340 theology. So I just decided to go on a long reading track of reading all of those guys as

00:07:43.020 best I could for many, many years. So that would be like the Cappadocians, that would be Basil,

00:07:47.520 the two Gregories, St. Cyril of Alexandria, St. Maximus Confessor, St. John of Damascus. Those

00:07:53.140 are some of the key figures in that milieu of the first thousand years that set the tone of all of

00:07:59.840 christianity in terms of its most fundamental doctrines the trinity and christology right

00:08:04.460 that's that's what christianity is those two doctrines are the key sort of linchpin that it

00:08:08.900 all hangs on so the first thousand years is dominated by those topics and that in a roundabout

00:08:16.480 way a lot of people don't realize this either that actually conditions what type of christianity

00:08:20.980 you're going to have, how it's going to affect society, how it's going to affect your life.

00:08:26.700 So, for example, if you have a very truncated version of, say, evangelicalism that's only

00:08:30.700 based around just how you're saved, right, it's not going to affect society. And so those types

00:08:37.600 of Christianities, or I would say deviations, they're also very susceptible to being used by

00:08:43.520 other groups. I know you just had a guy on talking about evangelical Zionism and dispensational

00:08:49.500 theology, because that theology is sort of based around an imminent, you know, end of the world

00:08:56.000 type scenario, you sort of retreat and you're not able to create a vibrant cultural effect of

00:09:02.980 Christianity. That's by design. People figured that out. They were very cunning. A few centuries 0.98

00:09:08.080 ago, they realized that that's the kind of Christianity that could be useful. So that

00:09:11.580 theology, which I'm not an expert in, but have heard a lot about in the last couple of years

00:09:16.380 is so totally incompatible

00:09:19.500 with what the New Testament actually says

00:09:21.240 that it makes you wonder

00:09:23.380 what kind of church could fall for that.

00:09:26.740 And it would be a church

00:09:27.860 with a pretty thin theology.

00:09:29.660 Exactly.

00:09:30.340 Right.

00:09:31.240 And a structure that

00:09:32.440 couldn't do anything about apostasy.

00:09:36.040 And it's also antithetical 0.64

00:09:37.760 to the Christianity of the first thousand years. 1.00

00:09:39.940 And the reason I keep saying 0.99

00:09:40.820 the first thousand years

00:09:41.620 is that that's not just where we get

00:09:43.600 these doctrines of the Trinity

00:09:45.460 and who Jesus has formulated, but we also get the Bible.

00:09:48.780 The Bible itself comes out of decisions of church fathers centuries after the apostles.

00:09:54.580 Yes.

00:09:54.760 So if we're going to have a church or a religion based on the Bible,

00:10:00.500 we really already truncate Christianity because the Bible itself in our ethos

00:10:05.980 is a liturgical document.

00:10:07.860 It's actually part of a liturgy.

00:10:09.280 It's not a personal devotional book primarily.

00:10:12.240 So to divorce it from that context, divorce it from the community that produced it, is what produces sort of aberrant, truncated versions of the religion that make it susceptible to princes, foreign governments, NGOs, think tanks, foundations.

00:10:27.520 They become essentially tools of soft power, which is what I think much of the evangelical Protestant world today, not indicting the individuals, but the groups, the denominations, they're very easily bought off.

00:10:41.100 For example, very wealthy families in the West, about 100 years ago, were able to buy off many of the mainline Protestant denominations and turn them into, effectually, NGOs.

00:10:51.940 Just one example, the Rockefellers, and they're not the only family, but they're one of the families that invested very heavily in not just the UN, but also the World Council churches to create a sort of a supra-international version of the UN that would be for religions.

00:11:07.080 And they were very explicit in their biographies about how this was to basically make it kind of an NGO. So make Christianity into kind of a form of soft power for American interests, really oligarchical interests. And that's one of the weak points, I would say, of Protestant theology, evangelical theology, is that it's very susceptible to that.

00:11:29.020 not to say that the Roman Catholic Church

00:11:31.620 or even amongst the Orthodox Church

00:11:33.260 aren't people that are susceptible

00:11:34.440 to the same types of subversion,

00:11:37.160 but I think it's a lot more difficult

00:11:39.360 when you have an ancient historic type of church

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00:14:31.440 Summer. Because unlike Billy Bob's strip mall church, the 2000 year old church can say,

00:14:40.180 wait a second, we've never believed this. We've never done this. Why would we be changing? There

00:14:44.900 is a sense of continuity there is there's also like if you have the attitude of a standard sort

00:14:52.460 of protestant evangelical person there's nothing in history settled because every generation kind

00:14:58.500 of has to reinvent the wheel they have to redo all the same controversies and crises all over

00:15:03.740 again because they could have all been wrong nothing is settled right because for protestant

00:15:08.220 evangelical christianity the bible and the apostles are kind of like the end i know that a lot of

00:15:14.580 protestants would say well we like athanasius we like you know saint augustine or whoever but when

00:15:19.700 you actually go and read them they have bishops they have relics they have the eucharist they

00:15:24.980 have all these elements that don't align with protestant reformation so i was an avid calvinist

00:15:31.480 i was super into john calvin and all that stuff when i was a younger guy and it was it was uh

00:15:37.460 unsettling you know to read these guys and realize well they don't teach calvinism so what am i going

00:15:43.300 to do here. I either not be a Christian or I can align myself with whatever the first thousand

00:15:49.120 years of Christianity actually is. And I say the first thousand years too, because Catholics and

00:15:54.100 Orthodox share that first thousand years. So we both have that in common. So I think that narrows

00:15:59.920 it down. It's either going to be Roman Catholicism or it's going to be Orthodoxy. But what about

00:16:04.220 Orthodoxy struck you as non-Calvinist? Like what are the differences, the big differences?

00:16:09.600 So, you know, Calvinism is not just predestination and the sort of strict soteriology or salvation doctrines.

00:16:19.640 It's also iconoclasm, which ends up, I think, affecting one's view of art and aesthetics.

00:16:26.800 Idol smashing.

00:16:27.740 Correct.

00:16:29.500 And I was a very avid sort of iconoclastic Calvinist when I was young.

00:16:32.740 um um it's also very um rigid in terms of its view of social structure church and state uh i the more

00:16:43.560 i read the church fathers the more i got into that kind of a theology i realized that like

00:16:47.240 calvinistic sort of republicanism doesn't really match up with byzantine imperialism or monarchy

00:16:54.060 you know the traditional views of the church's take on governance the byzantine empire is a

00:17:00.400 theocracy yeah well yeah pretty much what's interesting is that there are spheres right

00:17:06.100 so you have basically if you think about the byzantine double-headed eagle that symbol

00:17:09.340 is one body of the people but church and state as two separate heads so there's spheres of authority

00:17:16.840 but one body that they share which is the people so uh and then the west to a degree had this until

00:17:22.880 the middle ages when you get sort of a rise of um the 11th century papacy which becomes also the

00:17:29.320 state so you get a papal states and a sort of uh under pope uh uh dictatus poppy is the famous

00:17:37.080 document that says the church is also a state now um but until that time the norm was church

00:17:43.360 and states were working in unison symphonia is what it's called in the greek so that's

00:17:48.080 what i had to to grapple with but calvinism really doesn't see it that way it's a lot it's more like

00:17:54.800 it favors republicanism.

00:17:59.560 There were famous battles

00:18:01.040 between, in England,

00:18:03.080 for example, the Presbyterians

00:18:04.820 and the monarchists.

00:18:07.120 So they actually had a huge fight within the history

00:18:09.040 of the English Reformation as to whether they would

00:18:11.000 be Anglican sort of

00:18:12.960 monarchists or whether they would be

00:18:14.940 Presbyterian Republican

00:18:16.800 Calvinists. So that was a famous

00:18:18.940 Reformation battle.

00:18:21.460 But long story short, again,

00:18:22.800 Calvinism, I think, is just

00:18:24.480 it's antithetical to the first thousand years of Christianity, not so much because of those

00:18:29.940 aesthetic or cultural issues. It's also Christologically errant in that the whole

00:18:36.000 idea of what salvation is, is ultimately one's legal standing in terms of what's called

00:18:42.460 justification by faith alone or penal substitutionary atonement. This idea that

00:18:46.940 you're justified by God through a sort of notional acceptance of a set of ideas and then God's

00:18:53.440 attitude towards you changes. So, it's dispositional, but it's not focused on an actual

00:18:58.880 ontological change in the person. Orthodox theology is very different. God's disposition is based not

00:19:05.060 on purely a legal stance, but on your actual ontological change. So, a metaphysical change in

00:19:12.400 you versus a dispositional attitude. So, maybe we don't get too heavy on the philosophy, but—

00:19:18.040 I do want to. What's the difference between the two?

00:19:21.180 Basically, there's an idea in the Middle Ages called nominalism.

00:19:24.540 Have you heard that?

00:19:25.220 Yes.

00:19:25.400 Okay, so nominalism is the idea that there are only names to things, not essences.

00:19:32.240 So there's no human nature.

00:19:34.260 There's no dog nature.

00:19:36.440 When we talk about natures or classes or sets of things, we're not giving an ontological or metaphysical status.

00:19:43.580 We're just simply classing things together linguistically in a set.

00:19:46.700 the Middle Ages and the ancient world, the time of Paul or the church fathers, they thought very

00:19:52.280 differently. They thought that things have natures, they have essences. And so, the words

00:19:57.680 aren't just terms or nominal, namism. They actually describe what's really there in them

00:20:04.520 metaphysically. Okay. So, there is human nature. And in Orthodox theology, Christ assumes-

00:20:11.240 Who would deny that?

00:20:12.160 In the Middle Ages, it begins with people like William of Ockham.

00:20:15.600 So, Ockham is the first nominalist.

00:20:18.520 The man with the razor.

00:20:20.360 Exactly.

00:20:20.940 He's known for that.

00:20:22.080 And he challenges some kind of established ideas of like essentialism,

00:20:27.820 that things have essences.

00:20:29.340 And so, he also goes up against this idea of universals,

00:20:32.620 that there's no such thing as a universal class or essence of a thing.

00:20:37.100 And that had been kind of the norm since Plato and Aristotle as well.

00:20:40.520 But so you get a denial of essentialism and essences, and then you get another guy named Gabriel Bile, and he's very influential on Martin Luther.

00:20:51.640 And so when the Reformation kicks off, there's this debate about how could you be called righteous if you're not, in fact, righteous? 0.59

00:21:00.380 So if as a human being you are, you know, menstrual rags, as Isaiah says, as the Reformers said, then how could God call you righteous without being a liar?

00:21:09.480 What enter in nominalism, and nominalism is able to say, ah, because things don't actually have essences, they just have names.

00:21:17.260 And so if God calls you that, you are that legally, even though in actual fact you're wicked.

00:21:23.760 So that was, yeah, that was, and Luther was very happy to utilize that nominalistic approach.

00:21:30.080 And by the way, this is not just my theory.

00:21:31.740 There's famous Lutheran scholars.

00:21:33.460 There's a book called Harvest of Medieval Theology by Heiko Obermann.

00:21:35.980 And the whole thesis of that book by a Lutheran is that, yeah, Luther had to use nominalism.

00:21:41.360 So we're also, though, moving away not just from theological squabbles, but the idea that things have natures.

00:21:50.320 And this is how we get to David Hume and Kant and these Enlightenment figures, which give us the scientific revolution, supposedly.

00:22:00.020 This is how we get to there's no male and female.

00:22:03.460 So you can see kind of the logical train here.

00:22:05.480 If things don't have essences, well, then they don't actually have genders, right, objectively, because everything is just a name. 0.79

00:22:12.940 So I can just name myself E-Him-Zer-Z-It, right?

00:22:17.640 I'm not trying to go too fast or too far in the sense of, like, theology, but I'm saying there is an ideological sort of progression that you can get from nominalism to where we are now with postmodernism and then with essentially, you know.

00:22:30.900 It's interesting that an adult could believe in something like that.

00:22:34.760 I mean, having lived your life,

00:22:36.240 known people, known animals,

00:22:38.460 seen nature,

00:22:39.600 and arrived at the conclusion

00:22:41.080 that nothing has an essence,

00:22:44.340 everything is just what we call it,

00:22:46.160 like that flies in the face of your experience.

00:22:48.980 It has to, right?

00:22:49.900 What's that saying that 1.00

00:22:50.920 you have to be an academic to be really stupid? 1.00

00:22:54.240 Yeah, I guess that's right. 1.00

00:22:55.500 Yeah.

00:22:56.200 To be indoctrinated into believing some sort.

00:22:58.000 I remember Terrence McKenna,

00:22:59.300 do you remember the psychonaut Terrence McKenna?

00:23:01.040 I remember reading it one time

00:23:02.400 And he said something like, this is all just magical thinking.

00:23:08.420 You know, if you take the shroom, you're going to see that things don't have essences,

00:23:13.180 that things just have names and you just change the name. 0.95

00:23:16.640 And I'm like, that's the gender idea right there. 0.95

00:23:19.600 Christians ought to be safe in the Holy Land of all places, but they are not. 0.63

00:23:24.100 Keep in mind, these are the descendants of the first converts, the first people who followed Jesus, 0.83

00:23:29.240 people whose families have worshipped in the land Jesus walked for centuries, for thousands of years.

00:23:35.020 And these same people are now facing enormous pressure to leave,

00:23:38.840 fleeing their homes amid war and anti-Christian terrorism.

00:23:43.380 Untold numbers of innocents are lost and without hope, fellow Christians.

00:23:48.180 But how do you support them? 0.99

00:23:50.140 There are groups out there who claim to support them,

00:23:52.680 whose real agenda is to move them out of their actual homeland.

00:23:56.360 We think that's wrong.

00:23:57.240 We think that's evil, in fact.

00:23:59.220 And so we've looked far and wide to find a group 1.00

00:24:01.280 that is actually supporting Christians in the Middle East.

00:24:05.060 And we found one.

00:24:06.400 It's called the Vulnerable People Project, VPP.

00:24:09.360 It's one of the very few groups

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00:27:16.580 yeah and that's just it's kind of apogee you know the you know the gender insanity is just

00:27:22.480 the most obvious but it has a precedent in this right theology this theology debate that's amazing

00:27:28.340 i've never heard that before huh i'm sorry to hear that about luther who i've always loved

00:27:32.760 there's a lot to love about luther he's a character for sure um quite he would actually

00:27:37.320 chased the devil away with farts which i think is great quite a robust man right and a happy family

00:27:42.040 life and everything about him i like but that is impossible to defend on it just flies in the face

00:27:47.720 of reality yeah and even modern scholarship in the protestant world there's a great book by uh

00:27:53.560 alistair mcgrath out of england uh i think he's anglican it's called justicia day and his book

00:27:59.160 was kind of a landmark in protestants coming to the table and saying okay look luther's doctrine

00:28:05.560 salvation is not in the first 1500 years unfortunately so so this the understanding

00:28:12.040 of salvation that preceded the reformation was that people had to be changed on in their essence

00:28:18.920 in order to be so there's an actual participation in what orthodox theology calls the uncreated

00:28:25.080 energies so we believe that god has infinite divine energies and operations attributes as

00:28:31.080 as it's called in the West,

00:28:32.960 and for orthodox theology,

00:28:34.240 and this is the patristic teaching as well,

00:28:36.040 we participate in that.

00:28:37.200 So we're not just changing a legal status.

00:28:39.700 We're actually participating in the life of God himself,

00:28:42.980 which when you go back and you read the New Testament,

00:28:46.000 you're like, oh, actually, well, that makes more sense

00:28:47.800 because Jesus says in John 17

00:28:49.180 that he came to give us a share in the glory

00:28:51.640 that he had with the Father

00:28:52.380 before the foundation of the world.

00:28:53.960 So divine glory can't be a creature.

00:28:57.360 And so Jesus is equating grace with divine glory.

00:29:00.280 So unless you think God has created parts, which would be polytheism or some form of idolatry, uncreated grace has to be a reality that's a participable thing.

00:29:13.440 Well, Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit will flow into people and change them.

00:29:18.560 Right.

00:29:19.300 And that happens.

00:29:20.140 Spirit's not a creature, because then you would be anti-Trinitarian.

00:29:22.700 So absolutely, this is why Peter says in his epistle, right, that we become partakers of the divine nature.

00:29:27.420 So, very strong language in the New Testament and the epistles for what we call theosis in the Orthodox Church.

00:29:34.680 Paul says, for example, in Thessalonians that it is the dunamis or the power of God that is at work in him.

00:29:40.920 So, the actual power of God, which can't be a created thing or a created grace, which unfortunately, even a Latin Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, created grace becomes a normative thing where what you're getting is just another form of created.

00:29:54.500 the orthodox church saying no no the incarnation itself tells us that the uncreated united itself

00:30:02.240 to human nature and incarnation and that jesus deified the human nature that he assumed with

00:30:09.140 his own immortality grace and uncreated energy the role of the bible um in the protestant world

00:30:18.800 versus the orthodox world you described it this way i think you said in protestant christianity

00:30:26.340 the bible is seen as like a a tool as a what's a guide of course the guide the only guide really

00:30:31.920 and it is a devotional yeah but in the orthodox uh church it's a liturgical document correct what

00:30:42.680 does that what does that mean the tour ghost has to do with uh the the greek word of offering or

00:30:48.860 offering of thanks offering of praise but it's also in the hebrew tradition we think that that

00:30:55.160 was proto-christianity the ancient hebrew text uh it was part of for example david's psalms those

00:31:01.680 were psalms that david wrote to be sung at the temple liturgy right so liturgy is a sort of

00:31:07.240 structured form of worship that Orthodox, you know, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopalians,

00:31:15.460 they have a very structured form of worship that is called liturgy. But originally it just means

00:31:21.100 sort of offering. And even in Pauline epistles, like the book of Hebrews, you know, towards the

00:31:26.000 end of it in chapter 13, Paul talks about Christians have an altar that they eat from

00:31:31.260 that the Jews that serve at the tabernacle have no right to eat from because our altar is the

00:31:36.280 true altar, which is thus a liturgical altar. That very chapter he discusses the liturgical

00:31:41.700 thanks and offering at that altar. So from the earliest days, Christianity had this sort of

00:31:46.540 altar-based form of worship. Again, another Reformation distinctive is that they begin to

00:31:52.660 move away from the idea of an altar towards a table, right? So you have sort of a desacralizing

00:31:58.140 of the worship space to not be a Eucharistic offering, but a shared meal, which, and we're

00:32:05.180 not totally opposed to the idea of it being a shared meal, but it's first and foremost

00:32:08.880 a worship offering.

00:32:11.260 If you go back to Abraham, Abraham built an altar.

00:32:14.360 God is always worshiped at an altar, at least the biblical God.

00:32:19.160 So for us, the Reformation then represents a form of turning away from that. 0.89

00:32:24.880 It's a form of sort of Judaizing. 0.86

00:32:27.000 It's a form of returning to a form of rabbinical theology.

00:32:31.180 And many of the Reformers were actually very influenced by rabbinic theology, by the Talmud even.

00:32:37.320 So the Reformation has a stream of influences, Renaissance humanism, all those things play into that.

00:32:44.400 And it's just very—

00:32:45.240 Well, Luther was not in that category, though, no?

00:32:48.220 He was not interested in rabbinic theology, but he was influenced by what's a text called the Theologia Germanica, which was a Neoplatonic text.

00:32:56.300 And so there's also some evidence that scholars have pulled up that suggests that Luther might have had an interest in Hermeticism.

00:33:05.800 I'm not saying that that dominates his idea, but more so with Calvin and some of the Swiss reformers.

00:33:13.120 They were a little more directly influenced by rabbinic theology and Talmudism, but not so much Luther, no.

00:33:18.220 Luther was very anti—I mean, he didn't even like Moses.

00:33:20.880 He said, I'd like to punch Moses' teeth out.

00:33:23.200 So Luther didn't even like the Old Testament at times.

00:33:25.780 But again, he's a boisterous sort of satirical character at times.

00:33:30.560 So it's hard to know exactly.

00:33:32.100 The most hilarious theologian in history.

00:33:33.640 He was very hilarious.

00:33:36.140 So it's hard to know exactly when he's always being literally,

00:33:38.540 might just be joking around.

00:33:39.660 But no, I don't mean to mischaracterize,

00:33:41.420 because I know Luther wrote about the Jews and their lives.

00:33:44.360 That's a famous text that he wrote.

00:33:45.520 So I'm aware of that.

00:33:46.280 But just in terms of the general trends of the Reformation

00:33:50.420 outside of Luther with Calvin, Zwingli, Melanchthon.

00:33:56.780 Even later Lutherans were very involved

00:33:59.260 in the founding of Rosicrucianism.

00:34:01.500 Johann Andrei is believed by some scholars

00:34:03.360 to be the author of the Rosicrucian Manifesto.

00:34:06.960 I forget exactly what it's called.

00:34:08.080 So that is there, and a lot of that has to do

00:34:11.320 with Kabbalistic ideas.

00:34:13.540 Who were the Rosicrucians?

00:34:15.660 This was an Enlightenment-era secret society of sorts,

00:34:19.360 which in the 1600s 1700s there was a lot of these that were popping up everywhere because you still

00:34:25.220 had in protestant countries you had certain laws that would for in in catholic countries as well

00:34:30.520 they would forbid participation in secret societies they would forbid you know practicing

00:34:36.620 of the occult in varying various ways but you also had court alchemists and people that would

00:34:41.500 kind of like john d he was the you know court astrologer to to the queen so they would kind

00:34:47.560 to do these things in on in the down low secretly and so you get a rise of these secret societies

00:34:54.280 this is where some of the first speculative masonic lodges start to pop up in the 1500s 1600s

00:34:59.060 in europe but you also had a very interesting confluence of hermetic and kabbalistic groups

00:35:05.660 that were popping up particularly spanish rabbis that were very popular in spain seemed to be

00:35:11.380 involved in some of the the rise of kabbalistic influence in the west um and that i think

00:35:17.520 contributes in part to the rosicrucians who according to there's a great book by a dame

00:35:22.540 francis yates called uh rosicrucian enlightenment she actually argues that the enlightenment

00:35:26.800 itself was heavily influenced by rosicrucian ideology so um they were neoplatonists they were

00:35:35.520 into magic, alchemy,

00:35:37.880 so they were really interested in the idea of

00:35:39.560 transmuting metals, you know,

00:35:41.780 into the philosopher's stone, which

00:35:43.400 some people thought

00:35:45.700 was a real thing you could do, and others

00:35:47.540 thought, well, that's just an allegory for

00:35:49.300 how to undergo transformation

00:35:51.960 into your better self,

00:35:53.580 or to become God in a literal sense,

00:35:56.440 not in the sense of orthodox theology,

00:35:58.160 but, so all of these

00:35:59.680 sort of different strains and strands

00:36:01.680 in the hermetic world. But basically you're describing witchcraft.

00:36:04.440 Yeah, you could say that, yeah.

00:36:07.060 Huh.

00:36:07.540 A form of it.

00:36:08.520 But, again, that's all very diverse.

00:36:11.920 I mean, I think in the case of John Dee, for example, he's the first 007.

00:36:16.060 Did you know that?

00:36:17.600 No.

00:36:17.880 Yeah, so the 007, which is two balls and a cane, which is two bull cane,

00:36:23.920 that's how John Dee would sign his secret letters to the queen

00:36:28.260 because he was one of the influences on James Bond.

00:36:32.440 so that's where we get 007 from that's and and ian fleming consciously took that from uh john d

00:36:40.600 but i my my thesis and other people think this as well is that when he created this sort of magical

00:36:45.720 angel language that he called enochian after enoch it was just a way to do spy codes and ciphers

00:36:52.520 wasn't i mean he might have actually done some rituals but it was also very useful as a tool

00:36:58.920 for sending messages to Elizabeth

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00:38:08.600 So in the Orthodox tradition in the church,

00:38:12.680 the Bible is read aloud.

00:38:14.980 Yeah. 0.63

00:38:17.460 Are Orthodox encouraged to read the Bible on their own? 0.99

00:38:21.720 Sure.

00:38:22.200 I mean, St. John Chrysostom actually said famously

00:38:24.440 that the laity have more need of reading the scriptures

00:38:28.340 than even the monks or the priests

00:38:31.140 because monks and priests live in the liturgy,

00:38:35.320 which for those that don't know,

00:38:36.500 in the Orthodox Church,

00:38:37.480 basically every aspect of the liturgy

00:38:39.920 and the liturgical calendar is Bible.

00:38:42.420 It is scripture constantly.

00:38:43.840 It's like every aspect of it.

00:38:47.100 And so Christostom's argument was 0.98

00:38:49.080 laity need to be in the Bible more than they do 1.00

00:38:51.560 because they live it. 1.00

00:38:52.220 So, if you're not in the liturgy all the time, like those people are, the best substitute is the little church, which Chrysostom calls the house.

00:39:01.640 So, the household is, in the Orthodox idea, kind of a little mini church.

00:39:05.300 So, absolutely, we've got to be in the Bible all the time.

00:39:08.300 And that shows that we're not anti-Bible, like a lot of sort of Protestant evangelicals think.

00:39:13.160 So one of the reasons there was a Reformation in the first place is because the Catholic Church, over time, began to hide the Bible from Christians, and it was not published in the local language in Europe.

00:39:26.300 It was in Latin.

00:39:27.540 It was the Vulgate.

00:39:28.680 And Luther's great breakthrough was to publish it in German, to translate it himself into German.

00:39:33.560 Did the Orthodox Church do the same?

00:39:34.940 Yes. In fact, this is one of the differences between the pre-Vatican II Roman Church and the Orthodox Church is that the Orthodox always put it in the vernacular. Everything. The liturgy, homilies, they're supposed to be in the vernacular of the people.

00:39:49.020 In fact, the Vulgate itself was originally the vulgar Bible. 0.51

00:39:53.480 It was the Bible of the people.

00:39:56.020 And so, yeah, I think there was an element to where the Latin church, the Roman church, had just sort of solidified into a kind of a tradition that—and it's not inherently wrong to maintain that linguistic heritage, but it's also possible to put it in the vernacular for the people.

00:40:12.620 uh i mean that's the whole idea behind translating the bible into you know the languages of the

00:40:18.340 people so that they can understand it uh but that is one of the differences pre-vatican two but

00:40:23.320 interestingly after vatican two there were both protestant and orthodox influences on the reforms

00:40:28.600 of the roman catholic church and thus rome then became emphasizing they began to emphasize the

00:40:35.700 vernacular after vatican two what is you said you were an iconoclast a smasher of idols

00:40:40.460 Orthodoxy famously incorporates icons, paintings on wood into its worship.

00:40:49.040 What is that?

00:40:51.320 This is, again, a huge misunderstanding that we would argue, we believe, is part of proto-Christianity.

00:40:59.940 It's part of Hebrew proto-Christianity.

00:41:01.660 So when you go back to the book of Kings, when you go to the book of Exodus,

00:41:04.440 and you see the way that the tabernacle and then later the temple are described,

00:41:09.920 they are tremendously ornate.

00:41:12.360 You've got gold images of angels

00:41:14.480 and you've got the Ark of the Covenant

00:41:15.960 with angelic imagery on it. 0.86

00:41:18.580 So we don't believe that real Old Testament Christianity

00:41:23.560 or Old Testament Judaism, you could say,

00:41:26.140 not rabbinic Judaism.

00:41:27.080 We think that's something different

00:41:28.060 that developed in the fourth and fifth century.

00:41:30.100 It is something different.

00:41:30.840 Yeah.

00:41:31.400 But proto-Christianity or the Hebrew tradition

00:41:34.180 was not iconoclastic.

00:41:36.020 They were against idols, but not all imagery.

00:41:38.580 In fact, and this is something that really changed my mind when I was Calvinist, if you think about it, the Bible is a book, but words are just iconographic versions of images.

00:41:49.180 They're a type of image.

00:41:50.260 Of course.

00:41:50.980 And so the more I thought about that, the more I thought about that, it's like, well, you can't actually say all images are bad because capital F-A-T-H-E-R, that's a type of an image.

00:42:03.840 In the Orthodox Church, we don't typically image God the Father.

00:42:06.960 We think that, as Jesus says in the book of John to the Pharisees, he says, no one has seen the Father at any time.

00:42:12.220 And he's quizzing the Pharisees there because he's saying, so who do you think Moses was interacting with on Mount Sinai if no one saw the Father?

00:42:21.460 Because it says Moses saw God face to face.

00:42:24.400 Jesus is basically saying, I was talking to Moses.

00:42:27.000 I'm God.

00:42:27.800 That's why the Pharisees want to stone him in that chapter because he's saying he's the face of God that was interacting with Moses.

00:42:33.040 So this is why the book of Colossians, the book of Hebrews call Jesus the icon, I-K-O-N in the Greek, the image of the Father.

00:42:42.660 This enrages the Pharisees.

00:42:44.860 So we think that iconography directly flows out of the incarnation, the Son being the image of the Father.

00:42:52.820 Thus, throughout the early church, you have the development of the liturgy, even in the first and second century.

00:42:59.180 and this has been shown through archaeological evidence,

00:43:01.500 through people who study liturgy, they're called liturgists.

00:43:04.820 Even Protestant Anglican liturgists note that the early church had altars,

00:43:09.380 they had imagery, even synagogues in the 1st and 2nd century.

00:43:13.660 One of the famous cases is the Dura-Europa Synagogue in Syria.

00:43:18.120 I think it's from the early 200s.

00:43:20.400 It's lined with images, paintings of Old Testament scenes and imagery.

00:43:25.780 So the Orthodox Church, if you look at the Dorota Europa Synagogue, is the most natural development of, if Christianity was going to open up to the Gentiles, and it was coming out of the temple and synagogue liturgical system, is exactly what it would look like. 0.77

00:43:42.900 It would look like an Orthodox Church, and lo and behold, that's what Orthodox Churches look like.

00:43:46.680 And by the way, I remember 2023, my priest, who's a great Russian Orthodox priest, Father Vladimir, he took us on a pilgrimage to Italy. 0.94

00:43:58.000 And I was like, why are we going to Italy?

00:44:00.640 That's not Rome.

00:44:01.580 Well, there's a thousand years of Christianity, you know, prior to the rise of the medieval papacy in Italy.

00:44:07.820 There's tons of Orthodox places that you could go to, right, in Italy.

00:44:12.100 And so we went to the catacombs in Rome.

00:44:14.380 And lo and behold, when the Christians were persecuted in their underground in the catacombs in the first, second, third century, by the way, you can never see all the catacombs.

00:44:22.500 Like we spent a whole day just in one of the catacombs in Rome.

00:44:25.580 There's altars, there's images that they painted in the first, second, third century.

00:44:29.780 So even the catacomb church had liturgy, had imagery.

00:44:34.700 Plenty of examples of this.

00:44:35.860 The church fathers also write about it as well.

00:44:37.860 So those are huge, I would say, differences between.

00:44:41.200 And remember, people couldn't read back then.

00:44:43.960 Most of the Roman Empire was illiterate.

00:44:46.680 So when they would go to these services in the catacombs or wherever, they would be hearing the Word of God.

00:44:52.580 That's why Peter says, this is the Word of God which was preached to you.

00:44:57.040 Paul says to Timothy, pass on all the things that you heard from me in the presence of many witnesses.

00:45:01.520 So that oral teaching, that oral hearing of the liturgical worship was the norm.

00:45:08.520 And then one of the things that really cracked it for me as a Protestant when I left Protestantism was when I learned that,

00:45:12.660 By the way, I learned this from evangelical scholars.

00:45:16.760 One of the things that developed the canon of the scripture itself in terms of how the church decided what books go in and which ones don't was what's called the lectionaries.

00:45:27.600 Lectionaries are the daily liturgical readings in the churches.

00:45:31.380 So when the church fathers were having these councils and they were meeting, and the canon of scripture doesn't actually get solidified, at least for the Orthodox Church, until the 6th and 7th century,

00:45:40.180 they would say uh okay which ones do we have a tradition that says paul wrote or matthew wrote

00:45:46.540 which ones are in the daily lectionaries and if you're a protestant you believe in sola scriptura

00:45:51.480 the idea that liturgy and liturgical tradition play this huge role in the determination of the

00:45:57.840 canon make it very difficult to say that you know we're based on scripture alone

00:46:02.920 So Orthodoxy is not based on just the Bible.

00:46:09.600 No, we would say the Orthodox Church is based on the idea of apostolic succession, that the apostles appointed successors in various bishoprics and c's throughout the Roman Empire.

00:46:23.960 It's based on the tradition, which could include the lives of the saints.

00:46:28.300 It could include liturgy.

00:46:30.840 It could include all kinds of rites of the church fathers, canons of the councils.

00:46:35.240 Those are traditions and the Bible.

00:46:37.740 So all of those elements go into what the basis of the Orthodox Church is.

00:46:43.140 Whereas in the Protestant world, you have elected elders or something like that, but

00:46:47.840 you don't have this sort of three-tiered stool of apostolic succession tradition and bible

00:46:53.660 altogether what are the practical differences as as a weekly communicant in an orthodox church

00:47:00.720 how is that different from being a catholic or protestant um well certainly we would have more

00:47:06.640 similarities to a roman catholic than most protestants or evangelicals you know there

00:47:12.100 might be a high church protestant or anglican communion that would have some similarities

00:47:17.020 with orthodox church but i think uh you know for the orthodox world um

00:47:24.540 fasting is a lot more integrated into what we do than most fasting yeah there's a lot of fasting

00:47:33.660 days in the orthodox church calendar what does that mean for you just abstaining from certain

00:47:38.860 foods lent is a little more rigorous for the orthodox than it is for why fasting uh well we

00:47:45.500 think that Jesus and the apostles and people like John the Baptist kind of set the tone for

00:47:53.860 retaining an element of asceticism in the church. So obviously some people could take that to the

00:47:59.360 extreme. We're not Hindu yogis, you know, sitting out under a tree trying to roll around and poop

00:48:04.580 or whatever. But we do think there is virtue in training the body to be subject to the will so

00:48:13.900 that the body's desires and passions don't control us so that's why fasting has an important role

00:48:20.620 um basically learning to control the passions is what that's part of how often do you fast

00:48:27.760 i am not the best at fasting because i have a really weird uh gut biome issues so i don't

00:48:36.280 fast as much as i should uh it's very it's very challenging but there's also people that

00:48:40.380 There's nuances for medical issues, but the Orthodox Church fasts quite a bit, usually from various meats and stuff like that, but it's not just fasting that's different.

00:48:56.220 I think for the Orthodox Church, it's not just about food. Fasting is also almsgiving because it's self-denial that's not just about diet.

00:49:07.480 It's also, for example, during Lent, it would be appropriate to confess more.

00:49:14.660 It would be appropriate to give more than you normally would.

00:49:18.700 So we make a pretty big deal about things like almsgiving, whereas, and I'm not saying that other groups don't give,

00:49:24.380 but I think that's stressed a lot more in the Orthodox Church than it is perhaps in Protestant churches or other domains.

00:49:32.100 But I mean, these are just kind of, there's immense differences, I would say, between just the, I mean, communion is a lot more serious in the Orthodox Church.

00:49:43.280 You don't commune unless you're Orthodox.

00:49:45.460 You can't, like, we don't have what's called open communion. 0.86

00:49:48.380 So, Roman Catholic can't come or Protestant can't come and just commune.

00:49:52.840 Most churches are way more open about that.

00:49:56.180 It's very strict in the Orthodox Church in terms of communion.

00:49:58.600 And usually within the liturgy, the priest says, you know, all who are baptized Christians who have prepared themselves through confession may approach the table.

00:50:08.720 Because we take it very seriously.

00:50:10.140 We think it is actually, you know, the body, blood, soul, and uncreated energy of Christ.

00:50:14.260 So we don't want to treat that lightly.

00:50:17.480 And I'm not saying that Protestants don't have a reverence for their version of the sacrament, but it's just a lot more serious, I think, in the Orthodox Church than it is elsewhere.

00:50:25.700 um but we do have some of the sacramental principles like confession to a priest that

00:50:34.020 protestants don't have so again there's there's a whole milieu of wide scope of differences between

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00:54:00.700 How is it, since the religion you described was originally tethered to a government, an empire, how has becoming Orthodox changed your view of government and its role?

00:54:14.540 That's an interesting question.

00:54:15.900 You know, I was, when I was a Calvinist, I was more like a sort of a libertarian, you know, get the state out of everything.

00:54:22.860 It is the religion of libertarianism, isn't it?

00:54:24.860 um but as i got more into historic christianity i started to realize that well maybe republicanism

00:54:31.960 isn't like the highest form of of government like maybe it's not necessarily the best so

00:54:35.900 and i'd never read any critiques of you know republican governance and whatnot but it turns

00:54:41.720 out there have been you know quite a few people especially after uh scientific revolution there

00:54:48.320 were conservatives and right-wingers who were writing pretty i would say substantial critiques

00:54:53.740 of republicanism i think even members of royal families were writing pretty good critiques of

00:54:58.800 um well naturally yeah they have a vested interest probably but i mean no but there were um liberal

00:55:07.520 in the best sense minded people people who believed in inalienable rights who argued that

00:55:12.720 a republican form of government self-government democracy would um devolve into tyranny true i

00:55:19.880 Plato wrote even back in his day that, and he was, of course, a proponent of republicanism, but he wrote that the more decentralized in the sense of democracy, he didn't like democracy at all.

00:55:33.500 He thought that that would eventually lead to mobocracy and the rule of the passions, because the oligarch in that type of a democratic setting has the incentive to appeal to the biggest number at the lowest basis, lowest common denominator.

00:55:50.320 And then it becomes incumbent upon him to really play on the passions of the mob.

00:55:54.880 So why not debase the people because they're easier to control the mob?

00:55:58.760 So there's an incentive that even Plato noticed back then.

00:56:02.520 I think he writes in The Republic, if this happens, they're going to legalize weed.

00:56:07.900 They're going to legalize everything to do with butt stuff.

00:56:11.720 Yep, yep. 1.00

00:56:12.260 So it becomes fake and gay. 1.00

00:56:15.900 So he sought, I think, in various ways, even as a pagan philosopher, to try to figure out some way to have a society based on sort of objective, almost mathematical principles. 0.99

00:56:27.120 By the end of the Republic, it's sort of like you get the impression that he thinks that you need to go study mathematics on the top of a mountain for 20 years.

00:56:34.860 And then you come back and then you sort of instantiate mathematical forms into the society.

00:56:39.600 And it's interesting because later on, by the end of his life, he seems to progress towards more of like a secret society type of governance because he has this, I guess I'm going from memory, maybe the symposium or the other one.

00:56:50.560 but he argues that there's this Council of Night in IGHT,

00:56:54.940 which is a governance board of, like, spy chiefs.

00:56:58.840 Yep. 1.00

00:56:59.800 And so they meet at night because the public's too stupid to know what's going on, 0.99

00:57:04.140 which is just weird because it reminds me of, like, 0.97

00:57:06.820 I remember reading something about Kissinger talking about the wise men,

00:57:09.840 and, like, Plato's talking about, like, Henry Kissinger's form of, like, secret government.

00:57:15.720 And he devolves the level of Jeffrey Epstein from Coney Island. 0.99

00:57:19.960 exactly um yeah but it's all the same thing it's just a i mean jeffrey epstein was an idiot which 0.96

00:57:27.100 no one wants to say but he was obviously when you read his writing um and so it's sort of our 0.89

00:57:32.880 version of of that so i notice that the enthusiasm for liberal democracy whatever that is but our

00:57:40.740 system of government are that has produced our culture enthusiasm is waning for that like i

00:57:46.360 don't know many people who, I don't know anyone who wants dictatorship, just to be clear, but I

00:57:51.220 don't know anybody, I literally don't know anybody who thinks the current system is working. So that

00:57:56.000 suggests it probably won't last. So what comes next and what should come next? Yeah, there's no

00:58:04.400 easy answer to that. I mean, I think, again, when you look at Christian history, even in the West

00:58:09.860 or in the Orthodox East, you have a pretty normative tradition of kings and queens,

00:58:15.840 preferably kings.

00:58:17.900 And that happens through a semi-sacramental service

00:58:21.300 called a coronation service. 0.87

00:58:23.040 So the Orthodox Church always coronated emperors,

00:58:26.440 czars, kings.

00:58:27.880 Some of the most famous kings in the history

00:58:30.760 of the Orthodox Church fought massive battles.

00:58:34.560 They went to war.

00:58:36.220 So I think one thing that ties into this idea

00:58:38.980 of a de-Christianizing of the state, 0.77

00:58:41.620 which is part and parcel with that sort of tendency

00:58:45.320 see in the Calvinist, you know, libertarian type of tradition, the classical liberal ethos,

00:58:51.420 is there was a famous Russian statesman, Pobinatia, he wrote a book, Reflections of a Russian

00:58:56.120 Statesman, around 1890s. And he said, when you de-Christianize the state, you don't get liberty,

00:59:02.220 you get another cult that runs the state. Exactly. And he noticed that when- I have too. 0.92

00:59:08.480 Before the Bolsheviks, right? Really? Yeah, he had looked at the French Revolution

00:59:12.600 and prior examples and he said you just get another cult that steps in and and runs things

00:59:17.940 um and you're always going to be governed by religious fanatics yes so the question is

00:59:23.100 which religion want some good ones or at least some nicer ones or yeah i've noticed that just

00:59:28.300 from knowing people who run countries like they're all deeply religious people most won't admit it

00:59:33.440 yeah macron is not religious oh he's very religious it's just not your religion some

00:59:37.940 other luciferia yeah exactly i don't know what um yeah so yeah i think the the reformation whether

00:59:44.600 it intended to or not ultimately kind of severed the relationship that the church had already sort

00:59:52.420 of normalized between church and state that symphonia that we talked about and then you get

00:59:58.060 and it's a confluence of interest it's not just ideologues like martin luther or whatever in fact

01:00:03.180 I mean, the reformers had very powerful—like, for example, Luther's Reformation wouldn't have succeeded without the German princes being behind it.

01:00:12.680 Of course. 0.69

01:00:13.420 Of course.

01:00:13.880 They were resentful because they didn't want to spend the money.

01:00:15.500 And they didn't want to be under the Pope.

01:00:16.960 They were tired of the papacy.

01:00:17.680 Of course.

01:00:18.100 And Germany was emerging as the great power in Europe.

01:00:20.600 Exactly.

01:00:20.820 And, like, why would you want to be ruled by Italy?

01:00:23.200 Exactly.

01:00:24.260 So there was a lot of resentment, papal stuff going on.

01:00:27.140 Same with Henry VIII.

01:00:28.200 He didn't want to, you know, be under the Pope's rules about his ladies.

01:00:32.540 So, those combinations of interests.

01:00:36.240 By the way, there's also a Jewish influence on the Reformation as well.

01:00:38.860 In fact, there were, according to Carol Quigley, even Protestant and Jewish banking interests funded the French Revolution massively.

01:00:48.740 And he's got a great chapter on the rise of the Paribas system in France, which is the Rothschild banking system.

01:00:55.320 And then I just read in the Rothschild's biography the fact that they had a long-term vendetta with the czarist attitudes towards Russians, towards Russian Jews.

01:01:09.200 And Lord Rothschild wired one million rupels to B.I. Lenin.

01:01:15.660 I knew about other, like the Warburgs and the shifts. 0.52

01:01:18.300 they had funded 0.79

01:01:19.300 Lenin and Trotsky

01:01:20.340 but I did not know

01:01:21.260 that according

01:01:22.280 to Morton

01:01:22.900 they had actually

01:01:23.600 wired Lenin

01:01:25.200 a million dollars

01:01:26.700 so to speak

01:01:27.980 and he was supposed

01:01:28.960 to pay it back

01:01:29.740 but he never did

01:01:30.540 well I think

01:01:31.260 the Bolshevik revolution

01:01:32.220 was ideological

01:01:32.800 but I think it was also

01:01:33.800 ethnic conflict

01:01:34.660 to some extent

01:01:35.440 obviously

01:01:36.280 the Lord Rothschild

01:01:37.080 said that

01:01:37.500 he said we've got to

01:01:38.540 we will make 0.99

01:01:39.600 the Russian Christians 1.00

01:01:41.480 pay for what they did 1.00

01:01:43.200 for many centuries

01:01:44.400 in his mind

01:01:45.000 yeah

01:01:45.180 well

01:01:45.740 and they did

01:01:46.520 they made them pay

01:01:47.340 uh no one's paid more dearly actually um so orthodoxy i mean a lot you just said i didn't

01:01:57.840 know because i know so little about orthodoxy i knew nothing about it three or four years ago now

01:02:03.180 it it seems i don't know ascendant but it certainly seems popular why is that uh the internet you know

01:02:11.620 has an interesting positive and negative effect it can have on all these domains so i think in

01:02:17.320 one way what you know i started looking at apologetic stuff around 2000 2001 and back then

01:02:25.480 it was you would listen to people's cassette tapes you would listen to a little mp3 on windows media

01:02:31.800 amp or whatever uh but now it's everywhere you know the debate sphere which is something that

01:02:38.760 kind of grew not just from me but i mean other people like well you know crowder used to go do

01:02:43.560 that sort of come convince me, debate people,

01:02:46.720 and then Ben Shapiro would go debate the college kids,

01:02:49.620 the purple-haired weirdos.

01:02:51.580 So that's a lot of low-hanging fruit that Ben Shapiro would do,

01:02:54.100 but there also sort of accidentally almost came about

01:02:58.760 a pretty intense 10 years or so of online religious debating,

01:03:04.340 which, again, it just sort of happened.

01:03:06.880 It wasn't something that I planned to do or anyone planned.

01:03:09.860 It was just, I remember years ago, somebody said,

01:03:12.560 hey would you debate this atheist guy who's a libertarian guy yeah sure so we did it on a whim

01:03:16.480 then another guy hey would you debate this other you know french canadian ate this guy yeah sure

01:03:20.680 and then it sort of snowballs into you know a pretty regular thing of doing online religious

01:03:28.400 political debates uh it's gotten very popular throughout many outlets and i think that is a

01:03:36.340 huge contributor because especially if you're a young guy who's interested in ideas you want to

01:03:41.780 debate your ideas you want to have them challenged you want to know if your position is solid or if

01:03:46.220 it's weak um the older you get the less you want to do that and people tend to be you know sort of

01:03:51.560 solidified into their views but younger guys are more interested in that so that's when you buy a

01:03:55.860 cable package but i think that it's it's very um it's very natural i think to people in the west

01:04:06.960 to do that to debate their ideas it's it's not a feature necessarily of every other society no to

01:04:13.060 debate their ideas for sure and increasingly it's not a feature of our society exactly we're talking

01:04:16.960 at breakfast you were a debate participant champion in school i was too that was normal

01:04:25.120 i don't know normal but it wasn't as weird as seen as weird no now i don't even know that that

01:04:30.260 exists i don't it exists only internet so people are gonna kids in schools are not encouraged to

01:04:34.560 debate, right? No, in fact, I think I remember years ago when I was doing undergrad and then

01:04:40.260 grad school, they were already sort of trying to phase that out because we had a debate team

01:04:44.700 when I was in undergrad. And then by the time I was in grad school, there was no debate team

01:04:48.980 anymore. It didn't exist. Right, because the premium was on obedience at that point. Yeah,

01:04:52.680 because they don't want you critically thinking through your positions because then you might

01:04:58.340 notice patterns which are not amenable to the status quo nicely put that's absolutely right

01:05:05.220 so but but people have been on the internet debating religion and orthodoxy's gotten a

01:05:10.580 hearing for the first time maybe ever in american history yeah and the result is i i think i mean

01:05:16.780 it's not the only contributor but it did play a huge role in the rise of orthodox converts in the

01:05:21.580 last five six seven years for sure um and again it just all of that i would i guess is providential

01:05:27.460 because, again, nobody in our sphere, our circles, planned to do this.

01:05:32.040 We thought it would be fun to do.

01:05:34.060 I do a lot of different things.

01:05:35.640 I don't just debate.

01:05:36.840 So it's just sort of one of the side things I enjoyed to do at times.

01:05:40.900 And that ended up, for whatever reason, being a lot more popular than I would have expected.

01:05:46.340 So, you know, we've debated many of the top atheists, Muslims. 0.80

01:05:52.120 Jews are not huge on doing apologetics. 0.99

01:05:54.440 They don't evangelize.

01:05:55.660 so there's only been a few jewish guys that even want to debate um we've done a lot of political

01:06:00.620 debates feminist debates that have been pretty pretty big i mean in terms of viewership um so 0.79

01:06:06.300 i think that who are the most fun if you had to pick a muslim atheist feminist 1.00

01:06:14.620 they actually have a lot of similarities between uh muslims are not very fun to debate i wouldn't 0.96

01:06:21.420 said that they're the most fun i mean atheists can be fun because they get really triggered with 0.96

01:06:27.180 certain uh entailments but probably the funnest debates are some of the more 0.77

01:06:34.620 idiotic cult types of people they actually end up being very comedic so i do a lot of comedic

01:06:41.560 stuff so when we debate cult leaders which we've debated several those tend to be really funny so 0.98

01:06:46.840 they're the most entertaining are there any atheists left in the united states is that

01:06:50.700 there was a you know he has a move there was that was very popular in 2000s and i kind of

01:06:58.800 think they ran out of steam as the worst things got in the west the less appealing atheism was

01:07:05.840 because it has no explanatory power so when people start especially after covid and all that 0.96

01:07:11.720 sigh up like people noticed okay there's some really evil shit going on in the world yeah i

01:07:16.360 mean like we need some explanation and these guys are basically saying there is no explanation 0.90

01:07:19.940 nothing means anything right so atheism kind of loses steam um a lot of the youtube atheists 0.99

01:07:25.480 that were big youtubers just kind of petered out one of them was sticking bananas in his butt 0.97

01:07:31.060 and they just like who cares that's gross weird stuff so and then other ones end up like marrying 0.98

01:07:38.260 dudes that are women so uh people begin to see like this has nothing to offer i remember vividly

01:07:46.860 someone telling me that sam harris the famous atheist was like really really smart he's really

01:07:52.120 smart and i listened to sam harris once i think it's not smart at all like if that's your like

01:07:58.560 our standards i think have changed maybe and i think they've gotten higher yeah well i think

01:08:03.880 people said sam harris was smart oh yeah in fact i mean i think the the tail end of that period was

01:08:10.360 those debates with jordan peterson and peterson was really critiquing atheist presuppositions

01:08:17.640 uh i think i felt like he could have even gone harder on those guys because they were already

01:08:21.960 sort of losing the ground publicly um but even jordan peterson is just sort of simple lines of

01:08:28.200 questioning well how do you know that what's what's that mean you know even even that wasn't

01:08:33.160 enough really to like help like the atheists didn't have even enough response to sort of basic

01:08:39.480 internal critiques which is a very effective way of debating and doing doing worldview debates is

01:08:44.920 to do an internal critique where you show the the fundamental contradictions within another person's

01:08:49.800 worldview yes that is one of the most devastating ways to go about debates and um i think peterson

01:08:55.800 was was aware enough to do that with those guys whether it's sam harris or uh matt dylan's here

01:09:03.720 any of the atheists that that was kind of the nail in the coffin for the atheist then we had

01:09:07.320 covid and then people were just like all right we need an explanation for freaking demons yeah 0.95

01:09:12.220 these guys say there aren't demons obviously there's epstein demonic level shit going on so

01:09:16.500 probably god exists right i think that's literally the path for a lot of people i don't think i mean

01:09:23.260 i think that's actually what happened for a lot of people and isn't it interesting that some of

01:09:28.120 these high level so-called atheists are flying with jeffrey epstein and going to so sure and 0.97

01:09:34.140 have religious level devotion to all kinds of stupid causes so like they're the most religious 0.98

01:09:39.060 people of all exactly but i also i even wonder at times like are they even atheists maybe they 0.98

01:09:44.060 have other kinds of commitments of course not i mean i don't i look at sam harris infrequently but

01:09:50.580 whenever i run across sam harris he seems like a full-blown religious fanatic to me his religion

01:09:55.740 is whatever it is humanism or zionism or whatever but his commitment to it is is instantly recognizable

01:10:02.780 as religious faith to me right yeah i think you know the the approach that i take to all those

01:10:09.100 debates is worldview based and that what that means is that it's not primarily one side stacking

01:10:17.880 up evidences versus the other side stacking evidences and which one you know way it's more

01:10:23.360 so analyzing our fundamental commitments or our paradigm through which we interpret the world

01:10:29.660 that's a lot more effective

01:10:31.400 if you can destroy the person's paradigm

01:10:33.380 for getting them to actually change their mind.

01:10:36.360 Right.

01:10:37.060 So one of the threads that connects everything,

01:10:39.320 well, first I would say you've been thinking about

01:10:41.540 faith in a serious way much longer

01:10:43.760 than most people your age, I think.

01:10:45.300 This was a pretty secular country,

01:10:47.020 or I thought it was,

01:10:49.240 but you were thinking about this stuff early,

01:10:51.160 and maybe that's why you have an advantage

01:10:53.080 over a lot of us.

01:10:54.360 But I've now concluded that everything

01:10:58.500 is a manifestation of religious faith.

01:11:01.740 And it just goes by different names.

01:11:03.600 And so we missed it.

01:11:04.600 We thought we lived in a secular country.

01:11:06.000 We actually live, like all countries,

01:11:07.300 it's a very religious country.

01:11:09.020 You wrote a book on what's called esoteric Hollywood,

01:11:13.340 which is basically revealing, analyzing and revealing

01:11:17.300 the religious symbolism within popular art.

01:11:23.100 Yes.

01:11:23.900 What is, tell me the thesis, tell me why you wrote it

01:11:27.000 and give me some examples.

01:11:28.500 uh well when i was doing undergrad grad work i had multiple interests not just philosophy and

01:11:36.420 you know religious stuff but also i've always been interested in film love movies um grew up

01:11:42.540 in a small town so we didn't have much to do other than drugs and movies so yeah uh so i always

01:11:48.660 gravitated towards that towards the arts um i enjoy you know performing doing comedic type

01:11:54.640 stuff always wanted to be involved in some way in media so it was only natural i think to also

01:12:00.640 take a lot of film classes study a lot of lit and then you know sort of bring them all together

01:12:07.260 synthesize all these ideas and uh just for a long time i was just blogging for fun as i was doing

01:12:13.320 undergrad grad school i would blog about movies i was watching and i was also studying like

01:12:17.800 propaganda psychological warfare uh how that overlaps with intelligence agencies and how

01:12:24.500 that overlaps with Hollywood. So the book ended up being the product of just a lot of college and

01:12:31.200 grad school research, particularly about figures like Ian Fleming, how he would take sort of his

01:12:37.280 own personal experiences in black ops and intelligence, and then put that into the

01:12:43.060 character of James Bond. I mean, he's not the only influence, but he's one of the main influences on

01:12:47.920 his character and then how bond was such a powerful iconographic image to do cold war

01:12:55.620 propaganda so i just always found that relationship fascinating between all these domains you've got

01:13:00.520 literature you've got movies you've got intelligence stuff and all kind of playing together

01:13:04.240 and how they use that as a kind of tool of western propaganda during what i think is a dialectical

01:13:11.880 you know false cold world war dialectic but it's very instructive on many levels how you know we

01:13:19.300 were talking about icons earlier but bond is a kind of icon of sort of western nihilistic uh

01:13:25.500 Nietzschean uberman right that was used in the cold war to contrast against soviet ideas of

01:13:33.820 the collective man the new man the uh you know versus the individual man um you've got

01:13:41.880 capitalistic sort of self-gratification on one side, and then over here you've got this idea

01:13:46.120 that you are a property of the state. Both of these are dialectical opposites, right? And usually

01:13:51.580 the way dialectics work in terms of big term strategy is to synthesize these. So I was also

01:13:57.620 studying Hegel and Hegelian dialectics in college and how that's, and he does say that there's thesis

01:14:03.320 into the synthesis. There's a good academic research, which I think demonstrates that Hegel

01:14:09.040 was also influenced by Kabbalistic ideas.

01:14:11.360 So you have the two pillars of mercy and severity,

01:14:13.240 and then you have the synthesis of those two extremes

01:14:15.780 that can be a way of managing and controlling.

01:14:19.580 And people have got this down to a science.

01:14:21.440 It's not just my speculation.

01:14:23.060 You can read like global elite writers

01:14:25.120 like Jacques Attali,

01:14:26.100 he'll talk about Cold War being two pillars

01:14:29.060 of two sides of the dialectic

01:14:31.260 that you sort of manage the middle ground

01:14:33.320 and you can synthesize and bring them together.

01:14:35.360 So essentially what I argue in that book

01:14:37.940 is just through a lot of different essays

01:14:39.580 that I wrote analyzing Kubrick and Spielberg

01:14:43.080 and David Lynch and Hitchcock,

01:14:46.580 a lot of different directors in the first book.

01:14:49.240 Not all negative, just sort of doing analysis.

01:14:51.800 I'm not saying that everybody's involved

01:14:53.200 in a grand conspiracy.

01:14:54.940 It's more of concentrated essays

01:14:57.220 on different themes and topics

01:14:59.000 relating to sex cults and symbology in film

01:15:03.100 and how powerful, at least in the last century,

01:15:06.100 Hollywood was for giving us our religiosity,

01:15:10.220 whether we knew it or not.

01:15:11.640 You know, we mentioned myth-making

01:15:13.820 and we mentioned Plato

01:15:14.920 and, you know, Plato talked about the noble lie

01:15:16.940 in the Republic.

01:15:18.200 We thought we were in a secular society.

01:15:19.880 We were actually given an entire religious mythology

01:15:22.660 through Hollywood.

01:15:24.480 You know, Edward Bernays said,

01:15:25.740 Hollywood is the greatest engine of propaganda

01:15:27.540 the world had ever seen,

01:15:28.940 at least up until that time.

01:15:30.600 And that was obvious to me,

01:15:31.920 even as a child in the 70s.

01:15:33.760 What was not obvious was

01:15:34.980 that it was religious propaganda yeah i didn't realize this was our religion i mean maybe not

01:15:39.340 overt but it's there right it's it's a subtle way to indoctrinate people into various types of

01:15:47.700 basically just anti-christian ideology i mean the book is not just like a low tier thing saying that

01:15:53.640 hollywood's evil and it's anti-christian everybody knows that it's this is more of an

01:15:58.540 analysis of analysis of like you know was eyes wide shut perhaps a window into something like

01:16:07.560 epstein before we knew about epstein that kind of stuff i think that that's fascinating to me

01:16:12.140 i'm not saying that that was kubrick's intention um but sometimes the arts this is really really

01:16:19.540 crucial with like dostoevsky like the arts can predict things even ahead of time i'm not with

01:16:24.820 such recurring frequency that you think is this what is this this is almost a kind of a prophetic

01:16:29.940 spirit almost um yes or it you know it suggests that like we're just acting in a drama whose

01:16:36.480 script has been written i don't i don't know i i mean i've literally no idea but well it's outside

01:16:42.580 just a statistical matter it's outside the realm of chance for example how many times the simpsons

01:16:46.840 predicted coming events like what is that i have known writers on the symptoms simpsons they're not

01:16:52.700 yogis they're not mystical figure i mean i don't i have no idea what that is but i just noticed that

01:16:59.380 it's it's happened it does happen two different phenomena that for one like if you read dostoevsky

01:17:04.460 and some of his novels he would write almost with precision i think not because he was in on it but

01:17:10.460 because he was actually kind of a genius like he would write about he was a genius he would write

01:17:17.080 about years before what the bullshit revolution would do and what the socialists would do in 0.73

01:17:21.480 russia and almost with accuracy in terms of like the number of skulls that would be mounted up 0.66

01:17:26.100 um that i think is prophetic in the case of a lot of what went on in hollywood in the last

01:17:31.160 you know several decades that's more so propaganda that's intentionally

01:17:34.620 conditioning us um especially with a lot of like tech gadgetry you know the bond films actually

01:17:43.320 introduced a lot of people to sort of spy world gadgetry that would then become day-to-day normal

01:17:50.240 american living right i mean even cell phones like the internet itself is just old school

01:17:55.000 cold war cryptography that turned into everybody's form of communication um you know a lot of the

01:18:01.280 spy surveillance gadgetry or whatever you see going on in james bond this begins to be a thing

01:18:06.320 that conditions people to getting used to you know being surveilled getting used to having all their

01:18:11.600 lives on the internet live stream i'm saying that there's broader components to these types of

01:18:18.900 stories that do condition us i don't mean to go full schizo here i'm not saying that like everything

01:18:23.620 all i would just plan i'm just saying that the deeper that you go into it you do realize for

01:18:28.420 example that uh the cia is consulted on movies forever forever like all the way back to even

01:18:34.980 before uh you had famous actors and actresses that were spies i mean a lot of people don't

01:18:40.100 know this stuff that's just kind of level one of this stuff but it even gets more sophisticated

01:18:44.260 into like studying the effects of early slasher films that it had on people. It would put people

01:18:49.320 in like a catatonic state to make them more suggestible. Everybody's probably heard about

01:18:53.900 subliminals. Like all of that is related to or adjacent to the type of things that we're

01:18:58.900 discussing here. Like this is, it's a very niche, but well-studied branch of how to use fiction

01:19:06.700 to condition people. And one element that might be a little more accessible to people is that

01:19:12.620 But if you go back to the turn of the century, last century in the UK, especially as they eventually had the Official Secrets Act, you couldn't say what you did when you worked for British intelligence or whatever.

01:19:26.140 But you could write fiction novels that kind of loosely told those stories.

01:19:30.500 And so a lot of British authors that are now famous, you know, formerly wrote or formerly worked in British intelligence.

01:19:38.240 And then like William Somerset, Maugham and these different characters.

01:19:41.020 Graham Greene.

01:19:41.500 Graham Greene, exactly.

01:19:43.260 They would go on, and then, of course, Ian Fleming,

01:19:45.040 they would write into the stories

01:19:47.580 what they'd actually been up to.

01:19:48.780 You could write Our Man in Havana,

01:19:49.980 but you couldn't actually write what you did in Havana.

01:19:51.920 Exactly.

01:19:54.880 And then you'll find these fascinating nuggets.

01:19:58.780 You know, Joseph Conrad is the secret agent,

01:20:00.620 which was one of the first.

01:20:03.060 There was one revolutionary era spy story,

01:20:05.920 I forget the name of it,

01:20:06.700 but his is sort of the most well-known, the secret agent.

01:20:09.220 and you've got like the states using anarchists there's a false flag event like you've got these

01:20:15.420 principles in these fiction stories which seem to match up to reality so i just found that

01:20:20.880 fascinating that that you would have all this in fiction and then that sort of that sort of

01:20:24.980 blurs the line between reality and fiction sometimes intentionally because audiences

01:20:31.200 will watch things and it will sort of embed in the subconscious and i'm not trying to be again

01:20:38.220 I'm not being schizo about it, like you're getting programmed whether you know it or not, but I don't think all plays in fiction are bad. 0.63

01:20:46.480 I'm just saying people don't go to Argo to realize they're watching propaganda, but they're watching propaganda.

01:20:52.660 Does that make sense?

01:20:53.840 Of course, and that's why it's effective.

01:20:56.200 So one question that appears in fiction and raises speculation in real life, and it's a very specific question and you may know the answer.

01:21:06.100 is there evidence that intelligence agencies of any country have used or criminal organizations

01:21:12.760 in any country have ever successfully carried out assassinations using crazy or suggestible

01:21:18.680 people who don't know they're participating in it which is to say like lone gunman shoots public

01:21:25.080 figure lone gunman is actually a tool of some other organization doesn't know he's a tool of

01:21:29.520 the organization he committed the murder but he did so maybe unbeknownst to him at the urging of

01:21:34.400 some other groups, Sirhan Sirhan, for example.

01:21:38.160 Is there any evidence, do we know that's actually happened ever?

01:21:43.580 I think it's very obvious that it has happened.

01:21:47.540 I don't know what the standard of evidences would be to say with absolute certainty in

01:21:53.340 a specific case.

01:21:54.560 You know, people talk about Marius van der Lube, that he was used, you know, for the

01:21:58.740 Reichstag.

01:22:00.020 People talk about, as you said, Sirhan.

01:22:02.360 I mean, you could say Oswald, perhaps, was—there is such a thing as false flag recruitment, which is where people are recruited into thinking that they're working for this group, but they're actually working for this other group, right?

01:22:12.100 That's correct.

01:22:12.660 So that does occur, and I think that if you study assassinations and how they're conducted, they don't happen often, but they do tend to use crazy people or people that are very suggestible.

01:22:27.980 so i think that's definitely probably 100 goes on i mean we had what was shinzo abe was one of

01:22:35.520 the most recent uh other than charlie kirk obviously you know assassinations that there

01:22:40.420 were some weird weird things with that in terms of usually political ideologues or religious

01:22:45.760 ideologues are very useful for these types of of operations um so yeah i think i think especially

01:22:53.820 with jfk even you've got significant evidence if you look at the person of engleton if you look at

01:23:00.880 what came out the jfk files like he was literally just passing all kinds of information to the massad

01:23:05.740 it's in the jfk files there's like four four pages were about his secret relationship with

01:23:11.040 the massad uh i think there was a confluence of interests as you said with organized crime

01:23:15.320 cia and israeli interests all sort of had the motive uh in regard to jfk but i think that's a

01:23:22.020 recurring patterns to absolutely contract it out to either organized crime. I mean, Murder, Inc.

01:23:28.440 began as a Jewish assassination squad that was used by not just Sicilian mafia, but also at times 0.56

01:23:35.940 the U.S. would contract out and use these people for operating. If you want to get rid of somebody, 0.72

01:23:40.220 just use the gangsters. You're not going to do it yourself. So yeah, that's well known, I think,

01:23:44.540 if you look at Operation Underworld, where the CIA was using organized crime for many years.

01:23:49.740 How much evidence is there that the CIA do you think has an active role in American politics now?

01:23:59.760 My research has mostly been past decades of that relationship, so I'm not the most up to date on president.

01:24:09.340 But I would imagine it's...

01:24:09.960 Well, it's past his prologue.

01:24:10.840 How certain are we that the United States, U.S. politics has been influenced by intelligence?

01:24:16.760 I mean, I think when people talk about the deep state, we're talking about a sort of breakaway national security apparatus that has a tremendous amount of influence and control on domestic and foreign policy.

01:24:29.460 Absolutely, 100%.

01:24:30.660 I think that superstructure that is international, that is, you know, people talk about the five eyes and all that kind of stuff.

01:24:38.300 I think that they do coordinate.

01:24:39.660 I think it's very clearly when you get up into that level, even above intelligence and CIA, when you get up into that level of like steering committees and the CFR, the trilaterals, like it's not accidental that Epstein was literally David Rockefeller's legate on the trilateral commission.

01:24:55.960 He was a commissioner for it.

01:24:57.240 I mean, that's that they created that for Brzezinski, right?

01:25:00.080 It was Kissinger who went to David Rockefeller and said, we do have this guy, Brzezinski, he would be great for trilateral.

01:25:05.440 They created it for him.

01:25:06.460 And so for Epstein to essentially be at that level, which is, no, I don't think we knew that until that, you know, Bannon interview came out and Jeffrey Epstein.

01:25:17.460 Yeah, I was on the Trout. I don't know. I was up there with David Rockefeller.

01:25:19.740 yeah that's one of those details that's i mean do you ever suspect that the sex the sexual

01:25:31.160 components of the epstein story which i don't want to minimize because they're awful but do

01:25:35.980 you ever suspect that maybe they're also a distraction from bigger it's much bigger than

01:25:39.780 that yeah i mean in a lot of those emails and text messages and things that came out you've got like

01:25:46.240 there's so many crazy examples like you've got i mean you got high level finance money laundering

01:25:52.860 is part of that you've got weapons trafficking is a huge part of that um because if you read

01:25:57.320 whitney webb's book right like it's the adnan khashoggi uh operation which also included like

01:26:02.480 filming people on that yacht uh that becomes kind of a pattern for also the way that epstein would

01:26:08.480 do uh his stuff so you've got weapons trafficking you've got the high level blackmail you've got

01:26:14.060 human trafficking you've got um money and finance and you've also got uh planned chaos in certain

01:26:23.860 areas that you move money to prior to the chaos to benefit from the destruction which is something

01:26:30.200 that ian fleming had specter doing all the time so i i suspect ian fleming was talking about the

01:26:37.160 sort of Epstein-level, Rothschild-level gaming of different markets

01:26:43.360 because that's a huge part of what they were doing

01:26:45.420 where he's basically emailing Ariana to Rothschild

01:26:48.360 and he's saying there's going to be a huge conflict over here,

01:26:52.200 move in early, buy up resources, et cetera,

01:26:55.680 because the conflicts, the chaos is coming.

01:26:57.880 They did it about Kenya, or excuse me, Somalia.

01:27:00.900 There was emails about how to do this

01:27:04.900 with the Greek debt crisis when that happened.

01:27:07.160 to buy up after it collapsed, right?

01:27:09.680 So that's a huge component.

01:27:13.540 And we know that that's nothing new

01:27:15.300 because the Rothschild's biography

01:27:16.900 that I've just finished reading by Morton

01:27:18.620 brags about how they did the same thing at Waterloo.

01:27:21.900 They crashed the London stock market

01:27:25.400 on the basis of false information

01:27:26.920 and then bought it up when it crashed

01:27:29.440 when they figured out that the information was false.

01:27:31.840 So that's exactly the same thing

01:27:33.920 that Jeffrey Epstein was doing in the emails

01:27:35.840 with Ariane Duracho.

01:27:39.020 It's funny that they called the, you know,

01:27:43.000 the thousand years after the fall of Rome

01:27:44.660 the Dark Ages as compared to this.

01:27:47.940 It's also crazy too that we think

01:27:49.860 that there's no religious component

01:27:51.560 to the world today when we seem to have

01:27:53.940 all kinds of very demonic activities going on,

01:27:57.080 which suggests, you know, secret societies,

01:28:00.200 cults, you name it.

01:28:01.740 So I think that the world really operates

01:28:04.080 in this way versus the sort of secular mythology

01:28:07.900 that we were taught.

01:28:10.600 Yeah.

01:28:11.260 I mean, I don't see anything secular happening

01:28:13.760 really in the United States at all.

01:28:15.920 And if you, I mean, I first noticed this 0.94

01:28:18.600 on the LGBTQ, I can barely pronounce it,

01:28:22.760 agenda question where the commitment to that

01:28:25.240 was like more than just, you know,

01:28:27.320 compassion for, you know, discriminated against gays.

01:28:31.060 It was like this religious fervor. 0.85

01:28:32.900 Yeah.

01:28:33.020 Yeah. And that was the first sign to me that actually I think we're dealing with a faith here. 0.95

01:28:38.220 Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you find elements of these types of ideas in various Talmudic texts.

01:28:46.060 For example, the idea of aliens. I'm not saying that there might not be unexplained phenomena. I think there is.

01:28:51.200 I think there's a demonic component to it. But the idea specifically of, there's one of the tractates that discusses the 18,000 worlds.

01:28:59.120 so it's it's an older talmudic idea that uh there are these other life forms and i think that this

01:29:05.320 you know recent films like disclosure day spielberg's ethos that kind of i think that

01:29:10.120 plays into that idea that no there's not demonic stuff because if you watch that movie the whole

01:29:14.620 thing was like no they're actually your friends they're sort of alien saviors disclosure day

01:29:19.400 makes that case yeah it's kind of like don't think it's demonic this is more of a salvific

01:29:24.720 type of thing um so i think that's propaganda so we welcome our new alien overlords much like

01:29:31.540 childhood's end and if you've read childhood's end you know that arthur c clark who was

01:29:34.860 buddies with crowley right they're actually promoting this idea that carellin who's this

01:29:40.280 he looks like a demon right but he's our alien savior and he comes to earth and gives like

01:29:45.220 medical advances and technological advances and then he says oh by the way i need your first

01:29:51.300 generation of your children and then he takes them off and nukes earth so it's like i'm going 0.99

01:29:58.260 to save you by taking your kids and destroying the rest of you because you're all going to kill 0.99

01:30:02.520 yourselves uh if we just let you be and i'm just giving that as one example like famous you know 0.87

01:30:07.980 propaganda in sci-fi h.g wells was a huge propagandist about the same the stuff too he was a

01:30:13.460 high level uh he described himself as a luciferian he says in his book god the invisible king he says

01:30:19.260 You might think that in the coming technocracy, brave new world, you're going to be atheist.

01:30:23.140 No, no, no.

01:30:24.260 So we have a different deity.

01:30:25.220 His name is Lucifer.

01:30:26.380 He will be the deity of the future.

01:30:29.000 So he's a Promethean, you could say.

01:30:31.860 But he was also like one of the chief propagandists for the sort of Rothschild, Milner, Fabian circles that were promoting socialism and technocracy back, you know, in the 1800s, late 1800s, early 1900s.

01:30:44.900 What are the consistent lies that this propaganda tells?

01:30:47.640 like what connects all of the one of them i'll just start by saying one of them one of the main

01:30:52.380 lies that they're committed to convincing you of is that all this is secular it's all science-based

01:30:58.060 it's it's materialism yeah like nothing there's no spooky supernatural like i noticed that yeah

01:31:05.180 one of the things i've done on my my youtube channel last 10 years is uh what i call the

01:31:10.660 global elite book series and all we do in the last 10 years is like we pick various

01:31:15.040 Brzezinski, H.G. Wells, Jacques Attali, Carol Quigley. I mean, you just go down the line

01:31:22.060 and we read through the texts and then I do a talk on them. And what we've noticed,

01:31:26.940 we've done dozens of these, is there's a consistent pattern of, I say, there's like,

01:31:31.740 you know, five or six commandments of the elite that you have to be on board with. And there

01:31:37.600 seems to be a recurring pattern of, because humanity is overpopulated, we must have

01:31:44.440 global governance we must have a a united world religion eventually we must have uh full spectrum

01:31:51.120 dominance control of area of life everything's surveilled all the way up to we did even did uh

01:31:56.400 remember klaus schwab's uh fourth industrial revolution book that whole book that came out

01:32:01.060 right before covid was about how the coming crises will bring about this sort of globalized one world

01:32:09.180 order ruled over by internet of things you know skynet type stuff and that leads to rationing

01:32:16.220 and uh you know austerity all that kind of stuff that we've seen pushed by these people for so long

01:32:20.820 but i think you know some of the most telling books are like jacques atelier's book brief

01:32:26.180 history of the future that book was written in 2006 and he was the sort of kissender to you know

01:32:31.720 uh the presidents of france macron and people like that maybe even mitran i forget who who he

01:32:37.660 was consultant to but he was the kissinger of france huge neocon type person and in that book

01:32:46.320 he says towards the end of it he says we've progressed to the point where we're going to

01:32:50.780 have a global brain it's the golem because of the golem we're all going to be linked in uh you'll

01:32:58.260 lose your individuality when you're linked into the global brain he says at the spearhead of all

01:33:02.440 of this is the transhumanist. Transhumanism is, as Julian Huxley coined the term, the future that

01:33:08.520 we're going into. And so those are the elements, one world religion, one world currency, one world

01:33:14.920 brain, everything's sort of unified. And if you read Huxley, I read a bunch of Huxley's books. He

01:33:21.840 says, not just in Brave New World, but he wrote another book people don't know about called The

01:33:25.240 Perennial Philosophy. And he says, people don't realize that any theology or ideology that allows

01:33:31.780 you to have a significant degree of individuality has to be erased so that we can create the blob

01:33:37.720 the big amorphous blob where we're all sort of blended into one giant thing that's controlled

01:33:43.560 exact same thing that 100 years later almost jacques atelier says in his books about the

01:33:51.160 global golem like that's the goal is to create this sort of homogenized control and the goal

01:33:58.140 And of course, and that's the point of, you know, mass migration, you know, eliminate distinctions.

01:34:05.520 But the goal of all of that is what? 0.53

01:34:08.400 The destruction of people?

01:34:10.620 I do think that there's a pretty consistent pattern of belief amongst a lot of these people who are technocrats and transhumanists.

01:34:19.480 They think that technology will, even to go back to Arthur C. Clarke, everybody remembers 2001 Space Odyssey.

01:34:25.380 And he co-wrote that and helped that come to the big screen.

01:34:31.500 But he also wrote another book that was also a movie, which is very enlightening, called 2010.

01:34:37.280 It's not as good of a movie, but in 2010, it becomes more explicit that the Cold War was about producing a dialectical synthesis where the scientific elite from the Soviets and the West come together.

01:34:49.100 And they create the technocratic scientific priest class that rules us, that allows us to achieve apotheosis.

01:34:59.580 And then in 3001, that apotheosis happens through union with AI and tech.

01:35:08.120 So basically, the idea is presented, I think, in those books that we become God through technology.

01:35:13.880 Ray Kurzweil, he's even said this kind of stuff.

01:35:15.920 So the singularity, all that kind of ideology, which is not new to Kurzweil, actually, Hegel had a version of this that he called the Omega Point, where all the dialectical oppositions eventually synthesize into everything, in his view, becoming spirit, which is everything becoming some sort of transcendent, unified reality.

01:35:36.040 it's Huxley's blob it's uh you know I think who's that crazy Teilhard de Chardin the excommunicated

01:35:43.680 Jesuit guy he talked about the uh everything becoming the newosphere and that actually

01:35:50.600 influenced some of the early developers of the internet they talked about creating this

01:35:54.300 hybridized merged idea where everything becomes essentially the net basically so I think that

01:36:02.500 that's how they see these things

01:36:04.580 because they worship this idea of evolution.

01:36:07.780 And I'm not saying there's not degrees

01:36:09.420 of like adaptation in nature,

01:36:10.940 but this idea that there is a determined,

01:36:14.280 controllable priest class

01:36:15.660 that can steer us towards some sort of

01:36:18.560 transcendent singularity, omega point.

01:36:21.900 That's sort of their religious,

01:36:23.260 that's their eschatology.

01:36:24.540 So they have, like you said,

01:36:25.780 a competing eschatology.

01:36:27.560 That's right.

01:36:27.880 It's a competing eschatology.

01:36:29.220 That's nicely put. 0.60

01:36:29.940 But the goal, so the Christian eschatology is God returns, and the pagan eschatology is I become God. 0.82

01:36:38.100 Exactly.

01:36:39.560 And now, some of those writers will actually revise and reinterpret Christianity, and you mentioned earlier Rosicrucians.

01:36:48.200 And some of those hermetic groups actually had this idea that Christianity is just sort of an allegory for immortality and resurrection through some sort of gnosis or knowledge or technology.

01:37:01.700 You should replace God with yourself.

01:37:04.140 Yeah, Crowley.

01:37:04.820 Crowley's a great example of this because he's a figure who, by the way, was also working for British intelligence.

01:37:09.000 Because Alistair Crowley was a huge proponent of this idea of man achieving apotheosis through not just tech, but through a sort of magical view of tech, which Isaac Asimov expresses in his three laws of magic or whatever, magic and technology.

01:37:26.520 Arthur C. Clarke, same ideology.

01:37:28.180 He's hanging out with the Crowleyan circle. 0.88

01:37:29.340 So I think there's also an overlooked sort of satanic component to a lot of this ideology that people don't think about.

01:37:37.520 But if you look at, for example, to go back to like the Milner, Fabian Rothschild circles, they were promoting Madame Blavatsky heavily.

01:37:47.600 She was a Fabian socialist, and Crowley was a huge fan of hers.

01:37:51.200 In fact, he told people to read her writings to understand.

01:37:54.960 Founder of Theosophy.

01:37:55.940 Yes.

01:37:56.820 So Theosophy is another great example of this kind of religion of the future that Father Seraphim Rose talked about.

01:38:01.880 In fact, he highlights Theosophy as one of the key elements in his famous book, Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future.

01:38:07.160 St. Sarah from Rosanelle, but very predictive, very accurate that this is essentially demonic. 0.55

01:38:13.720 He wrote that in the 70s, basically saying where this H.G. Wells sort of idea would eventually take us by our day.

01:38:22.640 And he was spot on.

01:38:24.020 The book's kind of amazing.

01:38:25.780 If you read it, literally predicting everywhere that we're at.

01:38:29.340 But he says, you know, this Blavatsky satanic type ideology is what, for example, popularized yoga throughout the West.

01:38:38.320 We wouldn't have yoga everywhere, every Instagram chick, you know, doing yoga if it wasn't for Madame Blavatsky and Crowley.

01:38:45.700 With respect, Madame Blavatsky from the surviving photographs does not look like she practiced yoga.

01:38:51.820 I would not want to see her in yoga pants.

01:38:54.040 No.

01:38:54.980 Sorry, I couldn't resist. 0.93

01:38:56.520 I am a nasty person.

01:38:59.340 why yoga well uh there's a lot of reasons i think that and my wife just she just did a whole bunch

01:39:08.100 of podcasts on her youtube channel about uh yoga and tantric buddhism um there's a lot of reasons

01:39:14.140 why eastern philosophy and i'm not saying everything about eastern philosophy is necessarily

01:39:18.200 bad but elements of eastern philosophy is a lot more uh collectivist in the way that they approach

01:39:25.120 who man is and what he is in the world so um yoga i think is a way to if you take it seriously i'm

01:39:34.240 not talking about like people that just sort of stretch and do pilates but like the actual process

01:39:39.680 of yoga is intended to initiate you and basically your you know the base of your spine your chakras

01:39:47.860 and all that that's supposed to like essentially possess you now i'm not saying everybody does yoga

01:39:53.120 possessed i'm saying that that's the purpose of it is you're invoking entities to begin at your

01:40:00.400 butt stuff and like go up and open up your third eye so it's essentially a an initiation process

01:40:07.240 what's supposed to be that's what it is in the in the hindu and the tantric tradition but in the 0.86

01:40:11.920 tantric tradition it's it's actually a lot of really gross stuff which people don't know that 0.53

01:40:15.580 but what does that mean like really gross sex stuff like the actual tantric buddhism when you

01:40:21.100 get into like the depths of what that's about is and Crowley absolutely just borrowed this for his

01:40:28.440 whole process of pushing yoga you have to do all of the worst possible actions to kind of get beyond

01:40:36.360 good and evil so it's kind of a Nietzschean idea of like I mean the worst thing you could think of

01:40:40.760 you got to eat like feces you got to do incest like you do all the worst things to not just

01:40:47.660 balance the good side but also the evil side so it's the left hand and the right hand path have

01:40:51.980 to be transcended right and so their idea this is a common idea not just no this is like the inner

01:40:57.900 teaching of like tantric buddhism like if you were but not just tantric buddhism i mean there are

01:41:02.540 other groups have adopted this absolutely absolutely yeah um you can see why crowley

01:41:07.980 saw that is applicable exactly kabbalistic echoes there too um but the core idea is you have to

01:41:17.660 Go as far out as you can.

01:41:20.220 Yes, inversion, that principle of inversion.

01:41:23.000 And we talk about this a lot of times.

01:41:24.600 And, you know, people in our sphere, my buddy Mark Hackard,

01:41:28.580 he's written a bunch of articles about orthodox theology and philosophy and Soviet history.

01:41:32.900 And he's talked about some of the early, for example, Bolsheviks, one guy named Gleb Bokiai.

01:41:37.760 He was very interested in sort of eyes wide shut inversion stuff as a way to revolutionize society

01:41:45.080 in terms of the Bolshevik revolution.

01:41:47.660 there was um so commit atrocities and but not just like killing but like also to promote in society 0.68

01:41:56.520 like degeneracy because that has the print that can revolutionize society but that's true it is

01:42:04.260 in fact one of the key 60s countercultural revolutionaries uh wilhelm reich actually had

01:42:10.920 the idea that in order to have a successful cultural revolution, you would have to have

01:42:17.760 total open sexual pan relationships because that would remove patriarchy.

01:42:26.120 And then with the rise of the goddess and the feminine principle, that would allow the 0.52

01:42:31.260 actual socialist revolution.

01:42:33.460 That was his idea.

01:42:33.980 It's a very common, it was a very common idea.

01:42:35.980 so the old-fashioned communists you know the stalinists were prudish they were against the

01:42:42.920 gay stuff totally against it but the bolsheviks had been the pre-stalin period had embraced that

01:42:51.000 stalin pushed back against it and then in the united states in the late 50s and 60s a bunch 0.84

01:42:56.560 of revolutionary movements believe that the sla yep yep charles manson you know there was all

01:43:02.300 orgies and but that that ethos of the 60s counterculture stuff wasn't just you know

01:43:10.440 ginsburg and people like you know coming up with crazy ideas to party there was an earlier idea

01:43:15.980 that some of the key fabian social for example 1890s some of the fabian socialists like

01:43:21.100 be interested in webb they actually understood that if you promoted for example bestiality in

01:43:27.820 public art this could undermine and destroy uh the uk's sexual ethos at that time so they were

01:43:36.880 way out of the curve like in the 1890s bertrand russell was famously uh pansexual like uh wanted

01:43:43.300 you know terence mckenna a big open relationship so they've always understood that to remove those

01:43:49.740 boundaries is actually a way to invert and then change society on a mass scale to unleash power

01:43:56.600 Exactly.

01:43:56.860 There's a power that comes from that, from transgression.

01:44:00.060 It's demonic power.

01:44:00.980 Exactly.

01:44:01.820 But they never called it that. 1.00

01:44:03.240 But it's clearly true.

01:44:04.420 But the tantrics understood that.

01:44:05.820 They actually understood that you're actually sort of taking on sort of more and more demonic energy versus God's uncreated energy.

01:44:13.780 But it's still energy.

01:44:14.900 Yeah.

01:44:15.700 So when Satan promises Jesus that he can have the kingdoms, he could deliver the kingdoms.

01:44:21.820 Like he had the power to bestow on those who worshiped him.

01:44:24.960 like it's it's real there is a real demonic power that can yes yes be tapped into yeah

01:44:31.560 so that that's what makes it even more compelling i mean there's a reason people it's like cigarette

01:44:38.360 smoking yeah it's bad but people do it why because they get something out of it yeah there's a reason

01:44:42.580 that people worship demons not just because they're inherently perverse but because it works

01:44:47.320 short term yeah right yeah absolutely um and again that's that that principle inversion

01:44:54.160 is well-known way back into, you know, like ancient.

01:44:59.800 I remember reading. 0.92

01:45:00.820 That's why you sacrifice, the Incas sacrificed children. 0.97

01:45:03.120 So the Mayas and the Aztecs and the Vikings. 0.96

01:45:05.860 And like, when you sacrifice a virgin to the rain god,

01:45:09.600 it actually rains.

01:45:11.220 Well, like, you probably heard of Michael Aquino, right?

01:45:15.020 Yeah.

01:45:15.580 You know, everybody, you might've heard of his,

01:45:18.400 he wrote that Mind War to Psy War document,

01:45:21.540 which like the army's doctrine of psychological warfare,

01:45:24.040 back in the 80s or whatever it was.

01:45:25.680 And he wrote that.

01:45:26.220 But he wrote another book called Black Magic.

01:45:29.460 And the whole book is basically,

01:45:31.300 I remember reading this years ago,

01:45:32.160 it's basically taking the principles of Egyptian sorcery

01:45:36.600 but applying it to military psychological operations.

01:45:40.460 So yes, actually people do study ancient sorcery and magic

01:45:46.900 and that kind of, the CIA even had a whole program,

01:45:49.720 I want to say in the 70s,

01:45:50.760 kind of adjacent to Project Stargate

01:45:52.480 where they were studying Satanism and the occult

01:45:54.160 to sort of weaponize and try to understand these ideas

01:45:58.860 and see how far they could go with them.

01:46:01.180 Where did nuclear technology come from, do you think?

01:46:06.020 I mean, Oppenheimer described himself as,

01:46:12.020 to a degree, sort of engaging in,

01:46:16.740 I mean, I don't know how serious he took it.

01:46:19.560 And I've also read some interesting critiques of Oppenheimer

01:46:21.780 that argue that he was perhaps more of a propagandist

01:46:26.200 than an actual scientist.

01:46:28.140 So in a lot of these domains of high esoteric science,

01:46:32.500 I don't claim to be a scientist.

01:46:33.760 I'm more of a philosophy guy, but I don't know.

01:46:36.460 But he could have been much more of a propagandist

01:46:39.640 than he was an actual scientist.

01:46:40.580 I think that was true of a lot of the scientists involved in this.

01:46:43.420 It's not clear what they were creating.

01:46:45.880 It's very clear that they were used to create the illusion

01:46:49.260 that they were creating something.

01:46:50.260 yeah but it may have pre-existed them i'm just just throwing well i you know what one thing

01:46:54.420 that's interesting is that the way that's some of the early people involved in those

01:46:59.480 chemical sciences you probably heard of jack parsons he was you know crowley and they would

01:47:05.020 sometimes describe what they were doing as a kind of ritual so they saw the idea that you could split

01:47:10.760 the atom as kind of a ritualistic uh principle of by doing this you release energy which is the very

01:47:18.640 type of thing you were talking about with like the demonic aspect of releasing and control trying to

01:47:24.480 control the energy well it raises like a question which is like where does the act of creation come

01:47:29.120 from so the act of creation is god is god you know it's god's doing god of destruction right

01:47:34.660 and satan's destruction but the act of creation like every person who's ever every person really

01:47:41.180 who's ever engaged in creative activity knows that there's what we call this moment of inspiration

01:47:46.080 where the idea, the notion comes to you,

01:47:47.920 but where does it come from?

01:47:49.580 And people don't explore that question for some reason,

01:47:52.880 but it's an open question.

01:47:54.020 Like, where does that come from?

01:47:55.220 Ideas pop into your mind,

01:47:56.560 thoughts pop into your mind

01:47:57.500 that you've never considered before,

01:47:58.620 but that are just there.

01:48:00.780 And so you're not really coming up with them

01:48:03.580 so much as you're summoning them,

01:48:04.820 I guess is what I'm saying.

01:48:05.740 Yeah.

01:48:06.600 And that's true for good things,

01:48:07.460 but it's also true for bad things.

01:48:08.500 I mean, does any living person

01:48:10.460 not know what I'm talking about?

01:48:11.940 Well, so in the Orthodox tradition,

01:48:13.680 we have this idea that your thoughts come from one of three sources.

01:48:20.700 It either comes from you and your own sort of innate spirit and creativity,

01:48:24.460 which God gave you, or it comes from God,

01:48:27.140 or it comes from the angelic or demonic realm.

01:48:31.000 So there's three possible ways that you could get that inspiration.

01:48:36.440 The term that's used in the Greek is logismoi,

01:48:38.680 which is sort of thought forms that can sometimes occur.

01:48:42.000 usually those are in the orthodox tradition spoken of sort of as demonic influences um but

01:48:48.100 you're right to that uh i think that that that idea of inspiration and then putting it into

01:48:55.840 your work if you look at it from the evil perspective that's the whole thing that

01:49:00.920 crowley talked about in magic theory and practice is that all you're doing is he says the world and

01:49:06.120 all of its actions are equalized everything in the world is equal there's nothing good or bad

01:49:09.660 and the true magician is the one who takes the matter

01:49:14.340 or the things in the world

01:49:16.560 and puts his will and intention into it

01:49:19.120 and then affects an energetic change in the world

01:49:22.480 and whichever one is successful and takes on,

01:49:26.820 that's the true magician. 1.00

01:49:28.620 Now, I mean, Crowley is a liar and a deceiver, 0.98

01:49:30.480 so I'm not trying to give him too much credit, 0.98

01:49:31.860 but that is the attitude I think

01:49:33.600 that a lot of people who engage in that type of an idea,

01:49:37.660 they have that principle that they think that they're doing sort of magic workings in the world

01:49:43.280 to affect change and that makes them the magus does that make sense it does make sense i i just

01:49:51.400 as i get older i have come to believe that they're that we're really kind of a pass through a lot of

01:49:57.400 the time that we're subject to all these external forces that we don't acknowledge we don't perceive

01:50:03.780 most of the time but that those are really the defining moments of our lives like we either

01:50:09.440 accept or reject things presented to us from outside of us i guess is what i'm saying yeah i

01:50:15.120 yeah i mean really i didn't find any significant deep analysis of this type of a analysis of like

01:50:25.280 spiritual psychology i guess you could say until you know i got deeper into orthodox tradition

01:50:29.820 where they they go pretty deep into understanding this kind of stuff because if you think about it

01:50:33.600 Like, I don't want to degrade the office too much, but like a priest, Orthodox priest, they're masters of human psychology.

01:50:40.460 That's not all they are.

01:50:41.320 But if you hear for decades people's confessions, you're going to be a very good psychologist if you're good at it, right?

01:50:50.820 So you're going to understand, you know, not just human weaknesses and stuff like that, but you're going to understand these other influences.

01:50:58.160 and hopefully have the discernment to know when the influences might be from the divine

01:51:04.260 or when they might be from something else.

01:51:07.080 You know, one of the things that Father St. Sarah from Rose talked about in his book,

01:51:11.720 Orthodoxy in the Religion of the Future, is that he warned about coming mass delusions

01:51:16.760 and what would sort of dupe large amounts of people.

01:51:21.820 And one of the things that he tied into Hinduism and New Age type stuff was also not just yoga,

01:51:27.640 but the charismatic movement, and he was very insistent that this charismatic movement will

01:51:34.580 continue to grow because it stresses the direct existential ecstatic experience as if that's

01:51:42.800 necessarily from God when it could very easily be from the demonic. I think when you look at

01:51:50.020 the manifestations in the domain of charismaticism and how that's now crept into the Roman Catholic

01:51:55.960 church. It's crept all into the Protestant evangelical world. And it ties it very closely

01:52:01.520 into ancient sort of Hindu practices. That's the type of Christianity that's growing in Africa,

01:52:10.080 Latin, South America. It's rampant. It's a massively powerful delusion because it replaces 0.98

01:52:16.140 traditional Christianity with the idea that it's something akin to voodoo, basically.

01:52:21.520 If you study voodoo, it's very, very similar to charismaticism in the way that anything that you experience trumps what's in divine revelation or what's in church tradition.

01:52:33.820 Like, it's all about the direct sort of ecstatic experience.

01:52:37.620 And so it doesn't matter what happened or came before, then that might sound like it's not that big of a deal.

01:52:43.500 But take, for example, Ann Lee, the founder of the Quakers.

01:52:48.620 Ann Lee thought that her ecstatic experiences

01:52:51.220 were God telling her that women should be pastors,

01:52:55.520 women should be prophetesses, 0.68

01:52:56.980 women should run the church. 1.00

01:52:58.840 Sex is bad. 1.00

01:52:59.460 She's a proto-feminist. 1.00

01:53:00.700 She's a proto-women bishop pastor person. 1.00

01:53:04.240 She started a cult. 0.84

01:53:05.460 Her cult didn't grow.

01:53:06.420 It's about to die. 1.00

01:53:07.080 I think there's only three Quakers left, shakers left. 1.00

01:53:09.120 But it's a great example of the type of delusion 1.00

01:53:13.800 that western religionists have fallen into which is that you're talking about the shit just be 0.99

01:53:19.700 clear about the shakers not the society of friends that you know that what so she comes out of the 0.98

01:53:24.220 right she's a schism out of the quaker society friends but shaker yeah and they were big and 0.91

01:53:28.740 mean uh they didn't reproduce exactly so that's one of the downsides of like not a long-term

01:53:34.200 strategy but it's an attack on not just patriarchy but also attack on like good sexuality in terms

01:53:41.940 of producing yes uh but it's also like massive proto-feminism so it might sound counterintuitive

01:53:50.340 to say that that's very similar to the 60s counterculture revolution but it's not because 0.94

01:53:55.140 the whole idea of you know gay bishops or gay priests or women bishops women priests women 0.75

01:54:03.660 pastors it's all sterility and so the more sterility that you get the more your cult dies 0.97

01:54:10.240 out that's the end goal of all that is sterility in fact in the one of the minor prophets i want

01:54:15.280 to say it's like amos or hosea like there's actually a mentioning that the curse that you

01:54:21.000 will get is the sterility that you desire does that make sense yes so what i'm what i'm saying

01:54:27.780 here is like you were talking about with destruction these actions these inversions

01:54:31.620 they are a releasing of destructive power and the way to do that is to always invert

01:54:37.360 the existing natural order and that has a powerful effect in terms of not just creating instruction

01:54:45.480 but also creating a scenario that's then more easily manageable and controllable from cunning

01:54:50.420 oligarchical types of elites yes and it also infuses them with dark spiritual power there's

01:54:56.260 just no question about it it's not just the desire to get rich or the desire to control

01:55:01.620 other people it's that they are filled yes i mean when justin trudeau systematically destroys his

01:55:08.380 nation which he did yes um you know he gets something out of that and it's not just like

01:55:14.020 the consulting contract that comes after it's more than that this is what annoys me about con

01:55:18.440 inc and sort of the the fake conservative side of those who they're unable to diagnose what's

01:55:24.580 really going on because number one they don't have like the right spiritual component but they're

01:55:28.480 also averse to all ideas of subversion and conspiracy oh that's all crazy but it's like

01:55:33.800 but isn't that a much better explanation of justin trudeau or these kind of they're not just

01:55:39.240 dummies who are like liberal they're actually perhaps consciously malicious of course or

01:55:44.620 there are there or their tools of or tools of a higher power right but it's not it's not a joke 1.00

01:55:51.560 it's not that they're just like stupid it's like lame effeminate closeted gay guy runs canada 1.00

01:55:58.060 you know the second largest country in the world with the most natural resources of any place on 1.00

01:56:02.940 planet earth i don't think that's an accident well when you read a lot of these global technocratic

01:56:10.060 oligarchical elites they're a lot smarter than people think and much more faithful yeah you know

01:56:18.340 they're not agnostics um that's for sure so let want to wrap this up to go back to orthodoxy and

01:56:26.500 its view of the future it's eschatology so like a lot of and this is directly related to the power

01:56:33.200 i think of christian zionism because that derives from the christian zionist belief about the end

01:56:38.500 times and given recent events i think a lot of people are starting to think about history as a

01:56:45.080 linear track is like you know there's a beginning and end to history like everyone feels that that's

01:56:50.040 true and there's going to be an end to all this who knows when it comes but there are a lot of

01:56:55.100 people who are very focused on that i don't know what i think of it probably bad but whatever

01:57:00.880 leaving my thoughts aside what what is the orthodox view of the end times yeah one of the

01:57:07.480 crucial components to contrast the orthodox perspective to those sorts of dispensational

01:57:12.640 christian zionist perspectives is that they've missed what the first advent in our view did

01:57:21.460 So we don't believe that the kingdom of God

01:57:24.880 is postponed to the end of the world.

01:57:27.380 We think that at the first advent,

01:57:29.720 as Christ says many times in the gospel,

01:57:31.960 the kingdom is here, the kingdom is in your midst,

01:57:33.800 the kingdom is the presence of the Holy Spirit.

01:57:35.220 This generation will not pass away before I come back.

01:57:38.040 And we believe in what's called partial preterism

01:57:40.400 and the church father, especially Christosom,

01:57:42.160 emphasized in his sermons on Matthew 24 and Luke 21

01:57:45.420 that the destruction of the temple in 70 AD

01:57:49.020 was the finalizing of the reality of the kingdom coming into fruition.

01:57:55.580 So in other words, it's appropriate that the temple would pass away

01:57:59.780 now that what the temple was a type of, which is the church, is here.

01:58:04.280 So now that the church, which is the true temple, has come,

01:58:07.960 that is the surpassing from type to anti-type, right?

01:58:13.580 So you wouldn't go back to types now that the reality has come.

01:58:17.180 So much of what's in the Old Testament, whether it's the temple administration with the showbread and the lampstand and all that, those things are fulfilled in, in our view, what the Orthodox Church is.

01:58:30.180 The Orthodox Church possesses those things in the here and now.

01:58:34.200 So sometimes in theology, it's called the already-not-yet principle.

01:58:37.160 So the kingdom of God, the end times are here now.

01:58:41.040 They began at the first advent.

01:58:43.020 So for us, for example, the book of Revelation,

01:58:45.980 most people, most evangelicals,

01:58:47.520 oh, that's the end of the world.

01:58:48.600 And that's John Hagee and the seven blood moons of Israel. 0.84

01:58:51.600 No, no, it's now.

01:58:52.800 Like we live in the eschatological reality

01:58:55.300 when you go to the divine liturgy,

01:58:57.000 that is heaven on earth now.

01:58:58.540 It's not a postponed end of the world.

01:59:00.200 There is an end of the world,

01:59:01.420 but Jesus brought the end of the world at his first advent.

01:59:04.980 And one way that we know this is that most of the time 0.96

01:59:07.460 when you ask that type of an evangelical Zionist

01:59:10.180 or when does the reign of Christ begin? 0.96

01:59:12.820 Oh, when he comes back.

01:59:14.400 But every time Psalm 110,

01:59:16.500 which is sit thou at my right hand

01:59:18.080 until I make your enemies your footstool,

01:59:19.740 every time that's cited in the New Testament,

01:59:21.200 it's cited about his ascension,

01:59:22.680 which happened after he died and was resurrected.

01:59:26.420 It's not about the end of the world.

01:59:27.800 It's about the ascension.

01:59:29.020 So the church is the kingdom.

01:59:31.480 And if you go back and read the prophecies in Isaiah,

01:59:34.760 in the Psalms that talk about

01:59:36.580 the conversion of the Gentiles,

01:59:39.620 That began when Jesus sent his apostles out throughout the Roman Empire.

01:59:43.600 You have this prophecy in Daniel 2 that the empire under which this Messiah is born

01:59:48.420 eventually becomes the kingdom of the Messiah.

01:59:51.440 Within three centuries, the Roman Empire becomes essentially the Orthodox Catholic Church.

01:59:56.000 So we see all of that as fulfilled when he ascended and began his reign in his church. 0.98

02:00:03.440 Thus, there is an end to the world,

02:00:05.440 but we don't sit around speculating about news headlines

02:00:08.700 about when that's coming

02:00:09.560 because we're already in the end of the world now

02:00:12.600 when we go to the divine liturgy.

02:00:13.880 That is the eschaton in the here and now.

02:00:15.680 Does that make sense?

02:00:16.520 It does make sense.

02:00:17.640 It does make sense.

02:00:18.540 So that kind of like changes your responsibility 0.92

02:00:22.880 as a Christian living in the world. 0.97

02:00:24.860 Exactly, exactly.

02:00:25.460 And it also doesn't make us worship

02:00:27.140 some atheist nation state in the Middle East 0.71

02:00:29.520 that was created by the Rothschilds and the UN in 1948.

02:00:32.520 oh that's not in your liturgy no i'm saying like my my duty is not to yeah john haggie's

02:00:40.280 shofar and the blood moons or whatever blood moon pies what are what are blood moons

02:00:45.420 you know john haggie is yeah yeah well uh he i don't they he always tries to play on whatever

02:00:52.820 i can never be mad at john haggie because he just seems so lost

02:00:56.940 sad but he's a deceiver yeah but i mean he uh he was doing this big thing a couple years ago about

02:01:04.880 the blood moons of israel in times are signified by the blood moons so i just made the joke of

02:01:11.860 blood moon pies because you know what a moon pie is it's like you know because he's a portly fellow 0.76

02:01:16.660 but he is yeah no uh he's at the moon pies so does that but it means then the orthodox are not

02:01:24.180 waiting for the next life they're like engaged in this one well it's a both end right so it's not

02:01:31.120 that we uh focus all of our time and energy on here in the now or you know politics or the social

02:01:38.140 order we have sort of i guess tiered responsibilities i mean obviously you know for us kingdom of god

02:01:43.660 would come first the church is is what comes first but that doesn't negate you know the goodness of

02:01:49.460 this life. So we believe in many goods, uh, not just good or evil, right? Like you might have in

02:01:56.580 the history of the say middle ages, the Latin church, this idea that, well, to be celibate

02:02:03.680 and single is good, but if you're married, that's somehow bad or lesser, right? We would say there's 0.91

02:02:10.080 many goods versus this idea of a sort of a strict, uh, good or good or evil. Uh, that comes out of

02:02:16.720 the dialectics that Augustine, Augustine had a very specific idea that, just as an example,

02:02:22.100 he said that marital sex, in his mind, St. Augustine said, could never be, even though he

02:02:27.520 admitted it's a sacrament, he never understood how it could be a sacrament, because for him,

02:02:32.900 it always involves some degree of venial sin. Because in his view, man's will is either

02:02:37.640 enraptured with God or with some created thing. And if it's enraptured with a created thing,

02:02:42.660 like in the moment of sexual release, then you're in some way not focused on God. So he had a

02:02:48.080 dialectical view of sin and good and evil and of the will. The Orthodox view doesn't have that

02:02:55.160 view. In fact, we think that there's the possibility of many different goods. So married

02:03:01.360 life is good and has graces, and there might be certain advantages to living a single celibate

02:03:08.180 life, but it's not inherently somehow holier than if you're married. And a lot of Orthodox monastics 0.91

02:03:14.660 will even admit that, that a lot of married people can achieve a higher level of sanctity even than

02:03:19.420 some monastics because just sacrifice in itself is not, I mean, I desire mercy, not sacrifice,

02:03:25.780 right? So just sacrificing itself doesn't necessarily equate to a more holy status in

02:03:33.420 the Orthodox perspective. Although you might be able to do certain things that you can't do if

02:03:37.820 married but that's a very different attitude from sort of like medieval roman catholic

02:03:43.020 attitudes of like sex and marriage what a conversation thank you very much thank you

The Tucker Carlson Show - July 13, 2026

Jay Dyer： Demons in Hollywood, CIA, Secret Societies, Lone Gunmen, Epstein & Attacks on Christianity

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