The Tucker Carlson Show - Jeffrey Sachs： Ukraine⧸Russia Dangerous New Escalation, & the Dark Forces Pushing for War With Iran

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00:00:30.000 Donald Trump ran as a peace candidate.

00:00:32.760 He was going to end the Biden administration's disastrous war in Ukraine.

00:00:36.640 And he was going to bring peace to the Middle East.

00:00:39.080 And for the past seven months, he's been trying to do just that.

00:00:42.420 We're getting a lot closer, but we're not quite there.

00:00:45.960 Why?

00:00:47.120 Well, says Professor Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia, who has been watching carefully and speaking to many people involved,

00:00:53.000 because the intel agencies aren't on board at all.

00:01:00.000 So, almost three years ago, you got bounced off of Morning Joe after many years,

00:01:23.720 basically shunned by the entire world that you occupied and had occupied for decades,

00:01:29.560 simply for saying, hey, maybe the war in Ukraine is not a good idea.

00:01:33.680 So, it's been a number of years since that happened.

00:01:35.840 And I wonder if you have thought about or answered the question,

00:01:40.600 why is the Ukraine war so central to the people in charge of our society?

00:01:47.900 Like, what is it about that that creates this very intense attachment?

00:01:53.400 They'd, like, exile you for disagreeing over it.

00:01:55.900 Well, let me start with the basic point.

00:01:59.520 The war is not a good idea, and it could have ended three years ago.

00:02:06.000 This is yet another of the tragedies of the Ukraine war.

00:02:12.160 On April 15, 2022, there was a draft agreement between Ukraine and Russia to end the war.

00:02:21.980 The United States swooped in, told the Ukrainians, don't do it, keep fighting.

00:02:28.680 And three years on, Ukraine has lost perhaps more than a million young people to death and serious injury.

00:02:41.240 It has lost territory.

00:02:43.320 It has had the country destroyed.

00:02:45.460 It has had its economy brought to ruins.

00:02:47.660 Nothing of the last three years has been any help whatsoever to Ukraine.

00:02:55.760 So, when I said three years ago, I also said it five years ago and before even Russia's invasion in February 2022, 0.75

00:03:07.280 that there didn't have to be a war, that the war could easily be avoided.

00:03:12.860 When I said in March and April of 2022, you could stop right now and end the war, not only was that right, it was, if I could put it this way, pro-Ukraine.

00:03:28.920 Of course, it was attacked at the time as being anti-Ukraine.

00:03:32.420 This is the craziest thing.

00:03:33.720 The friends of Ukraine, so-called, are the ones that are completely destroying Ukraine. 0.95

00:03:41.360 The friends of Ukraine, so-called, are the ones that tell Ukraine to fight on, to fight on.

00:03:48.580 It's like being, I guess, the coach in a boxing match and your guy is being bloodied and being hit and being destroyed in the battle.

00:04:01.340 And you say, go, I'm on your side.

00:04:03.680 Go out there and hit them again until they get smashed one more time. 0.89

00:04:09.540 And they're brought to their side of the ring. 0.99

00:04:12.200 And again, you tell them, go out and fight because I'm your buddy.

00:04:15.920 This is the disaster that the so-called friends of Ukraine, whether it is all that we saw during the Biden administration or that we hear every day from Starmer, the prime minister of UK, or Mertz, the new chancellor of Germany, or Macron from France. 0.90

00:04:37.840 And, of course, from Zelensky, who is now running a, I'm sorry to put it this way, but a little dictatorship because he runs by martial law.

00:04:48.680 He doesn't run by public support. 0.79

00:04:50.320 But they're all the ones telling their young people, go out to the front lines, go get killed. 0.67

00:04:55.020 And this has been going on for years.

00:04:57.100 So the question you ask is why?

00:05:00.040 This isn't for Ukraine. 0.99

00:05:01.880 This is destroying Ukraine. 0.97

00:05:04.040 So what is it for?

00:05:05.120 Well, I think it's quite obvious and it's been obvious for many years.

00:05:12.040 The American push to Ukraine to fight on, don't accept neutrality and so forth.

00:05:21.200 This has been a project of the American deep state of the military industrial complex dating back decades.

00:05:33.620 And the target has nothing to do with Ukraine at all.

00:05:37.020 It's destroying Ukraine. 0.93

00:05:38.400 The target is to, quote, weaken Russia. 0.59

00:05:41.120 This is the point.

00:05:42.460 But why would you want to?

00:05:44.480 To weaken Russia? 0.51

00:05:46.300 That's an even longer story.

00:05:48.920 I mean, no one wants to weaken India.

00:05:50.920 Yeah, it's a very good point.

00:05:53.520 And someday when India succeeds, we will want to weaken India. 0.98

00:05:58.420 So that's the basic.

00:05:59.520 Probably sooner rather than later.

00:06:00.380 It's actually quite interesting.

00:06:03.000 Maybe you'll make me digress right at the start.

00:06:06.840 In the early years of this century, in 2000, 2001, 2002, the U.S. relationship with China was just kind of normal.

00:06:19.120 But even keel, we had good business with China.

00:06:23.160 And one of my dear friends with whom I somewhat disagree on some things and agree vociferously on other things, John Mearsheimer, the great political scientist, wrote a famous book called The Tragedy of Great Power Politics.

00:06:43.300 This is his magnum opus.

00:06:45.640 And in it, he says, at the beginning of the book, in around 2000, he said, the relations with China are quiet now.

00:06:53.820 But when China gains power, we will go into conflict with China. 0.91

00:06:57.740 And so this is to answer your question.

00:07:00.860 Why would John Mearsheimer say that?

00:07:03.140 Not because of anything China would have done, but because a big power will generate a reaction from the United States.

00:07:13.460 That's his theory, that we're on an almost inevitable collision course, the great powers.

00:07:21.200 I'm not so pessimistic, although I'd say Mearsheimer is empirically more right in a way.

00:07:26.860 So he somewhat accurately describes things.

00:07:31.700 But he also labeled his book the tragedy of great power politics.

00:07:36.040 And I don't want tragedy all the time.

00:07:38.240 No, exactly.

00:07:38.800 I'd like a little comedy, actually a little normal relations.

00:07:42.320 So to answer your question, what do we have against Russia?

00:07:47.560 The fact of the matter is Russia is big. 0.68

00:07:52.740 Russia is powerful.

00:07:55.640 And for that reason and that reason alone or sufficiently, the U.S. would oppose Russia just like the U.S. opposes China.

00:08:07.640 Now, of course, maybe people listening to this are saying, that's crazy.

00:08:11.140 We oppose China because of all the terrible things they do.

00:08:13.840 Or we oppose Russia because of all of the terrible things they do. 0.88

00:08:17.820 I would take a different view of this, which is we make up stories about why we oppose big powers.

00:08:27.740 But the basic reason we oppose big powers is that they are big.

00:08:32.060 They are an affront to our desire for what the political scientists, in a fancy word, call primacy or call hegemony or call full spectrum dominance.

00:08:46.100 In other words, Russia is an affront to our ability to dictate circumstances. 1.00

00:08:53.180 China certainly is an affront to the U.S. ability to dictate circumstances in Asia. 0.59

00:09:00.360 For that reason alone, we, we, for me, it's fine.

00:09:05.600 You know, I understand there are many powers in the world.

00:09:08.380 That's how the world is.

00:09:09.880 But for the powers that be in Washington, that's completely antithetical to the American strategic purpose.

00:09:21.260 Which explicitly for many, many years has been full spectrum dominance or primacy.

00:09:30.540 In other words, our purpose stated by the establishment, by the military industrial complex is we must be the unrivaled number one.

00:09:41.980 So, if you ask, why do we hate Russia?

00:09:45.380 Because Russia stands in the way of us being the unrivaled number one. 0.91

00:09:53.380 Now, you could say, well, it's because of all the terrible things that they do.

00:09:58.400 But it's a little more complicated than that.

00:10:00.500 During the Cold War from 1945 to 1991, we hated Russia because it was communist.

00:10:12.200 Yes.

00:10:13.440 Okay, I happened to be quite deeply involved at the end of that period as an economic advisor when they were trying to get out of that horrible system.

00:10:24.000 And I advised President Gorbachev in 1990, 91, and I advised President Yeltsin in 1992 and 93.

00:10:34.860 They, Yeltsin said, we don't want any of this communism anymore.

00:10:38.840 We want to be a normal country.

00:10:40.420 So, the United States came up with other reasons to hate Russia.

00:10:44.520 So, I watched with my own eyes that the reason that had been given was not the real reason.

00:10:51.860 It was maybe the believed reason, but it was the narrative reason. 0.90

00:10:56.560 We hate Russia because it is a godless communist country.

00:11:01.440 Now, it is a Russian Orthodox non-communist country, and we still hate Russia. 0.95

00:11:07.940 Same deal.

00:11:09.960 And by the way, what's absolutely fascinating is if you go back to 180 years ago, and I'm not kidding, to 1840, our precursor as world hegemon, that was the British Empire, they hated Russia too.

00:11:30.720 And why?

00:11:33.560 For no reason.

00:11:34.960 It was a little before the Bolshevik Revolution, by the way.

00:11:37.800 It was before any ostensible reason.

00:11:41.580 But the British elite hated Russia.

00:11:47.020 Okay.

00:11:48.380 And it shows an interesting answer to your question.

00:11:53.260 A historian named Gleeson, in 1950, tried to answer the question, how did Britain come to hate Russia?

00:12:05.120 Why is it that by 1840, the British hated the Russians so much that 13 years later, in 1853, the British went to war against Russia, a war of choice in the Crimean War?

00:12:20.960 So this historian did an amazing job because it was before AI and being able to ask all these good questions.

00:12:30.760 He went through all the archives.

00:12:33.180 He went through all the speeches by British leaders, all the speeches in the House of Commons, all the articles written in the intellectual magazines from 1850 onward.

00:12:47.120 And he posed the question, he said, we were allies of Russia in 1815 in defeating Napoleon.

00:12:54.560 Yes.

00:12:54.980 We were allies.

00:12:56.620 Then, just 25 years later, we're enemies.

00:13:03.100 What happened?

00:13:04.400 So he goes through all of the speeches, everything.

00:13:08.400 His conclusion in the end is remarkable.

00:13:11.820 Nothing happened.

00:13:13.220 There was no reason why Britain came to hate Russia, except Russia was big and therefore was an affront to the British Empire. 0.62

00:13:25.740 And of course, the British concocted an idea, which was a completely bizarre idea.

00:13:31.820 And that was that the czar was going to invade British India through the Khyber Pass.

00:13:39.340 This became known as the great game afterwards.

00:13:44.440 This was a crazy idea.

00:13:46.280 The thought never even crossed the minds of these czars.

00:13:50.080 The idea that-

00:13:50.860 To march across Afghanistan?

00:13:51.720 To march across Afghanistan and into India, into the Indian subcontinent to fight the British Empire.

00:13:59.920 It was a loony tunes.

00:14:01.880 But the British elite came to view Russia as the great threat to the British Empire, the threat to India, the crown jewel of the empire.

00:14:14.160 So much so that by 1840, Britain was rabidly russophobic.

00:14:21.120 And then by 1853, Lord Palmerston totally concocted a pretext to go to war with Russia, the Crimean War.

00:14:35.320 Charge of the Light Brigade.

00:14:36.060 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:36.500 Charge of the Light Brigade.

00:14:37.560 And the Crimean War was a concocted showdown between the British Empire and the Russian Empire.

00:14:47.240 Concocted because the Russians said, we don't want to fight you. 0.96

00:14:50.820 You know, they had challenged, the Russians had challenged the Ottoman Turks and put some troops in Wallachia at the mouth of the Danube.

00:15:03.840 And because the Ottomans had given some privileges to France that the Russians thought belonged to them.

00:15:12.000 And then the British and the French threatened the Russians and the Russians retreated.

00:15:16.860 This is the prelude to the Crimean War.

00:15:20.160 The Russians retreated.

00:15:21.880 And then when the Russians retreated, the British said, we now fight on.

00:15:27.620 In other words, the pretext was gone, but they wanted that war. 0.60

00:15:32.000 Why did they want the war?

00:15:33.440 They wanted the war because the British idea was to banish Russia from the Black Sea region.

00:15:43.020 Remember, the Black Sea is Russia's warm water port till today, by the way.

00:15:49.780 It was created as a warm water port in 1783 by the Empress Catherine the Great.

00:15:59.140 And it has been Russia's warm water port since then.

00:16:02.960 In Crimea.

00:16:03.760 Palmerston in Crimea, in Sevastopol, precisely, which was besieged by the British and the French during the Crimean War.

00:16:13.580 The Russians eventually surrendered.

00:16:15.580 And in the Treaty of Paris in 1856, the Russians agreed to scrap their Black Sea fleet.

00:16:26.820 It remained scrapped for about 20 years, actually.

00:16:31.140 And then, as history always shows, the French went running back to the Russians, ally with us because the Germans are rising in power. 0.74

00:16:42.600 And so, suddenly, the enemy became the friend because you needed a new friend to fight the new enemy and so on.

00:16:51.320 It's kind of crazy European politics.

00:16:53.660 But the idea of Lord Palmerston was banish Russia from the Black Sea and you reduce Russia to a third-rate power. 0.80

00:17:05.440 Now, all of this is fascinating because, first of all, the Russophobia was a concocted hatred.

00:17:15.240 Second, the war between Britain and France on one side and Russia in 1853 was concocted.

00:17:23.060 But, third, we're replaying that almost to the same script today and almost with exactly the same plot line, which is so weird but true.

00:17:38.540 And why I say that is the United States, quote, or the inside deep state, the CIA and its apparatus and the rest of the military industrial complexes hated the Soviet Union since 1945, even though they were our ally in defeating Hitler.

00:18:02.280 It turned to preparing for war against our ally within a few months of the end of World War II.

00:18:10.740 This is by itself a very important point.

00:18:13.840 And then from 1945 to 1991, we had the Cold War ostensibly against communism and against international communism.

00:18:25.520 Then in December 1991, the Soviet Union ended.

00:18:32.280 I don't know if I've mentioned it to you before.

00:18:34.620 I was in the Kremlin that day, literally that hour, sitting next in front of Boris Yeltsin, or I was in front of him.

00:18:44.560 And he said to me and to my colleagues, gentlemen, I want to tell you the Soviet Union is over.

00:18:53.880 I heard it probably first in the world directly from President Yeltsin in December 1991.

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00:21:28.380 And Yeltsin said at the time, I want us to be a normal country.

00:21:34.260 We want a normal economy, Mr. Sachs.

00:21:37.340 We want a normal democratic political system.

00:21:40.360 We want to be friends with the United States.

00:21:42.840 And I, in my naivete, said to him, President Yeltsin, I can assure you, the American people will want to partner with Russia to have a future of peace and economic cooperation.

00:22:02.480 And I was completely convinced of it.

00:22:05.140 I thought this is the most historic moment imaginable.

00:22:08.120 I was pinching myself, can you believe you're sitting in the Kremlin hearing from the president of Russia the end of the Soviet Union?

00:22:16.720 And I had that blessing.

00:22:19.220 It was unbelievable.

00:22:21.580 I was wrong.

00:22:23.340 Because as soon as the Soviet Union ended, what did the deep state say?

00:22:29.960 Well, they said, this is great.

00:22:33.720 Now we need to dismember Russia, too. 0.96

00:22:36.720 Just like the Soviet Union broke apart on its ethnic lines, Russia is fragile. 0.56

00:22:43.520 Maybe, as Big Brzezinski opined, maybe it'll be three different parts.

00:22:50.000 Maybe there'll be a European part, a Siberian part, and a Far East part.

00:22:54.360 But the arrogance, the hubris is unbelievable on the American side.

00:23:00.960 But the idea was, Cold War over? 0.99

00:23:05.000 It's ridiculous. 0.78

00:23:06.600 Now we go on to surround Russia. 0.98

00:23:09.900 Now we go on to chip apart Russia. 0.95

00:23:12.700 One of the favorite phrases in Washington used to be to decolonize Russia.

00:23:19.600 It meant that we can break away different regions of Russia, Chechnya, or this region, or that region.

00:23:28.400 Why?

00:23:29.080 It's a big power.

00:23:30.520 We're the only big power that should be on the planet.

00:23:33.880 And incidentally, in 1992, I can absolutely assure you, no one had China on the radar screen in Washington at all.

00:23:44.300 China was rice-growing villages, maybe a counterpoint to help weaken Russia, or as it was used in this triangulation to weaken the Soviet Union.

00:24:00.260 But it wasn't on anybody's radar screen as potentially a competitor or a threat or anything else.

00:24:06.860 So the focus was on Russia, and it remained on Russia.

00:24:10.800 And we know that the U.S. deep state, and again, by that, I don't mean just a figment of our imagination or metaphor.

00:24:21.580 I mean the CIA.

00:24:23.820 I mean the rest of the intelligence agencies.

00:24:27.720 I mean the Pentagon.

00:24:29.000 I mean the armed services committees of the Congress.

00:24:33.040 I mean the military contractors.

00:24:36.520 They already, by 1992, had the idea of unchallenged primacy of the United States.

00:24:45.780 And this became called neoconservatism afterwards.

00:24:49.460 But it was early on.

00:24:51.320 And, of course, Cheney was our defense secretary in 1992, and Wolfowitz was his deputy.

00:24:58.400 And all of the familiar figures that we came to know in the Iraq War and afterwards were on the scene.

00:25:07.980 This was the end of Bush senior, and they already concocted the idea of U.S. unipolarity or primacy or full-spectrum dominance or hegemony, whatever term one wants to use.

00:25:25.120 Then comes Clinton into office.

00:25:28.080 And Clinton's a kind of inconsequential, inexperience, I think, just not a serious person and didn't become one, unfortunately, during his presidency.

00:25:48.800 And the deep state explains to him this is the way it is.

00:25:53.060 And he also hears from Central Europe, countries that I was advising, but not advising on this for sure.

00:26:03.040 Oh, we need NATO.

00:26:05.800 Why do you need NATO?

00:26:07.840 NATO was supposed to protect you against the Soviet Union.

00:26:11.980 The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore.

00:26:15.060 Russia is not threatening anybody.

00:26:17.300 It's barely surviving the financial crisis, but it doesn't have its eyes on Prague or on Warsaw or on Budapest, nothing of the sort.

00:26:27.760 But the idea of unipolarity is we need to put our bases on every part of the board.

00:26:36.680 This is the game of risk.

00:26:38.180 We need to put our pieces everywhere.

00:26:40.280 And so the idea of NATO enlargement is worked out in 1993, and there's bureaucratic opposition inside by smart diplomats who say, why are we doing this?

00:26:52.320 The Cold War is over.

00:26:53.800 But to the deep state, the Cold War was not over.

00:26:57.660 It was just revving up because we got to get rid of Russia in its current form as well. 0.99

00:27:03.360 So by the beginning of 1994, President Clinton, already in a speech in January 1994, endorses the eastward expansion of NATO.

00:27:15.900 And if I could just put a parenthesis around that, the U.S. had promised unequivocally to the Soviet Union in the context of German reunification as of February 2000, February, sorry, 1990, excuse me, yes, that NATO would not move one inch eastward.

00:27:45.900 This remains, by the way, highly contested to this day.

00:27:50.260 But if anyone wants the information, you go on something called the National Security Archive of George Washington University, and you can read the dozens and dozens of statements and all of the archival material, making completely, absolutely, unequivocally clear that the United States and Germany promised that NATO would not move one inch eastward.

00:28:19.460 So the record is absolutely clear.

00:28:22.640 But Clinton, being Clinton in the way that he governed, was told by the deep state, now we start moving eastward.

00:28:31.000 And Clinton thought that was good domestic politics also with the Polish-American vote, Czech-American vote, and so forth. 0.55

00:28:38.240 And he was also told by friends like Václav Havel in Czech Republic and so forth, this is a good idea.

00:28:47.160 So he starts the NATO enlargement eastward.

00:28:50.500 And in 1997, Zbigniew Brzezinski explains basically the Lord Palmerston strategy.

00:29:01.560 We will surround Russia in the Black Sea region, and we will render Russia a third-rate power. 0.99

00:29:11.760 And why not?

00:29:13.560 It's so low cost.

00:29:14.880 We're so powerful.

00:29:16.060 What could stop us?

00:29:17.340 We're unchallenged anyway.

00:29:18.840 They're weak.

00:29:19.620 They depend on us.

00:29:21.300 So there was no—it wasn't even heatedly debated.

00:29:25.800 But Brzezinski's absolutely clear about this, and like so many learned volumes, I must say, his book, The Grand Chessboard, is very well written and fundamentally wrong.

00:29:41.100 And fundamentally wrong in that he has a whole, essentially, chapter, long chapter, saying NATO will move eastward, Europe, meaning the European Union, will move eastward, and what will Russia be able to do about it?

00:29:59.460 And he goes into a long analysis saying, could Russia turn to China?

00:30:04.660 No, never.

00:30:06.220 Could Russia turn to Iran? 0.57

00:30:08.660 No, never.

00:30:09.980 Russia's only vocation is the European vocation. 0.87

00:30:15.600 So Russia's going to have to swallow hard and accept this.

00:30:20.700 The point, Tucker, is what we're witnessing is not short-term decisions of presidents.

00:30:32.000 We're watching a long-term, consistent strategy, of course, built into the mindsets of senators and congressmen and more than the mindsets built into their campaign contributions as well.

00:30:48.140 So this is built into the armed services committee.

00:30:52.320 This is built into the intelligence committee.

00:30:57.200 This is why Lindsey Graham and Richard Blumenthal stand up every day saying we must fight the Russians and so on.

00:31:04.780 This is not short-term claims based on current politics.

00:31:12.600 This is a project that dates back more than 30 years. 1.00

00:31:17.720 It's a stupid project. 1.00

00:31:20.340 Well, the verdict is in, though. 1.00

00:31:22.280 So, I mean, ultimately, the project reaches its inevitable conclusion, which is including Russia's largest and most important neighbor, Ukraine, in NATO.

00:31:31.860 So they announced that in February at the Munich Security Conference of 2022 and then almost immediately after Russia rolls across into Ukraine.

00:31:40.700 And then the war commences and it's a disaster for everybody, especially the United States, I would argue.

00:31:46.080 And it does what Brzezinski said it wouldn't do, which is drive Russia right into China into what's now a permanent alliance.

00:31:50.960 So it's a disaster.

00:31:51.720 So you get home from work on a Friday night at your site because you've finished the entire week of work.

00:31:57.280 It's time to reward yourself. 0.69

00:31:59.440 So you go to the snack cabinet and 10 minutes later, you've consumed an entire bag of chips, your typical American chip brand, and you feel like garbage. 0.92

00:32:10.720 Of course you do. 1.00

00:32:11.900 You just stuffed hundreds of calories of chemically laced, seed oil-infused crap into your mouth. 0.99

00:32:17.820 This is not a good way to start the weekend. 0.99

00:32:20.360 And who hasn't done it?

00:32:22.340 Cast the first stone.

00:32:23.980 But there is a better way.

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00:32:37.780 And unlike the rest of this country's corrupted food supply, masa chips have no seed oils whatsoever.

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00:32:49.580 Check the label.

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00:33:00.940 Masa is the way to go, M-A-S-A.

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00:33:45.220 You're probably pretty sick in Nike.

00:33:47.100 It's hard to blame you for feeling that way.

00:33:48.660 Any company that worships Colin Kaepernick, any company that shills for the lunacy of the left social agenda, is clearly not on your side.

00:33:56.860 In fact, they're your enemy.

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00:34:20.280 That's not a radical view.

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00:34:26.060 But woke corporations like Nike make you feel like a lunatic for saying obvious things like men are men and women are women.

00:34:32.240 That is tyranny.

00:34:33.640 How can you fight back?

00:34:35.420 By abandoning the companies promoting it and by embracing companies like XXXY Athletics.

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00:34:55.860 On the claim, this is a disaster.

00:34:57.800 I'm going to fix it.

00:34:59.460 And seven months later, it's still not fixed.

00:35:01.460 Despite his, I think, sincere efforts to fix it.

00:35:05.180 I agree with you.

00:35:05.780 So what, why isn't this fixed?

00:35:08.320 Let me just say in terms of chronology, one more piece to add, just to add to the historical note.

00:35:16.340 The decision to invite Ukraine and even more crazy, by the way, the country of Georgia, which is in the South Caucasus. 0.88

00:35:26.680 People should take out a map and look at this region between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea and ask themselves a question.

00:35:33.840 Is that the North Atlantic because NATO is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?

00:35:41.060 Or is that the soft underbelly of Russia in the Caucasus mountains?

00:35:47.680 This is insane.

00:35:49.320 It's more Asian than European in some ways.

00:35:52.120 Well, it's literally Asia because the European demarcation is the crest line of the Grand Caucuses.

00:36:01.060 So we're inviting an Asian country, Georgia, into NATO.

00:36:07.280 Stalin's home nation. 0.98

00:36:08.820 And fascinating, why Georgia?

00:36:13.200 Because look at the map also.

00:36:15.660 Not only is it Asia, not only is it not the North Atlantic, but it completes the encirclement of Russia in the Black Sea. 0.90

00:36:23.680 So it's not a random choice.

00:36:26.120 It's Palmerston, 1853, brought to life by Brzezinski, 1997, and lived out by George Bush Jr. in 2008.

00:36:38.820 They announced this.

00:36:41.420 Putin says, no, this is not going to be.

00:36:45.460 This is craziness.

00:36:47.000 In the meantime, also remember that in this incredible hubris of the United States, this mad arrogance, in 2002, the U.S. unilaterally walked out of the anti-ballistic missile treaty.

00:37:04.040 So the U.S. destabilized the nuclear arms control framework fundamentally in 2002.

00:37:13.960 This is not sufficiently appreciated because from Russia's point of view until today and literally on a strike on strategic bombers last week, Russia believes that the United States has killed the nuclear arms framework.

00:37:31.420 So we're talking about not vague national security concerns.

00:37:36.140 We're talking about fundamental national and world survival terms.

00:37:41.920 Because from Russia's point of view, and understandably so, the United States doesn't want to play by any single rules whatsoever.

00:37:51.100 So I just want to say that this Project Ukraine not only goes back to the 1990s, but the invitation was in 2008.

00:38:00.620 The Russians said no, so in 2010, a pro-neutral president, Viktor Yanukovych, is elected.

00:38:08.880 He comes to power on the basis of no NATO enlargement because he knows how dangerous that is for his country being between east and west.

00:38:17.780 He says, stay away to both sides and we will keep calm.

00:38:22.060 In February 2014, the United States conspires in a coup that overthrows Yanukovych.

00:38:32.240 And that was a coup in which the U.S. was deeply engaged.

00:38:37.420 My colleague at Columbia University, my colleague now, Victoria Nuland, was the point person on the ground.

00:38:44.320 Jeffrey Piat, who was a senior official for Biden back in 2014, he was ambassador, in fact, to Ukraine, and then became a senior State Department official in the Biden administration.

00:38:59.080 Afterwards, senators, Lindsey Graham, he was out there, John McCain.

00:39:05.720 This was a typical U.S. regime change operation.

00:39:10.660 What do I mean by that?

00:39:11.800 It means Yanukovych is in the way of our plan.

00:39:16.980 We need to get him out of the way because we need to expand NATO.

00:39:23.660 And so Yanukovych is overthrown on February 22nd, 2014, violently, within a nanosecond.

00:39:31.660 Rather than saying, hey, the president should come back, a violent group overtook the government buildings.

00:39:38.380 President Obama recognizes the new government within a nanosecond because this is a U.S. game.

00:39:48.860 This is the whole point.

00:39:51.140 If you were a serious country that believed in democracy, President Obama would have said,

00:39:57.260 we don't accept mobs entering our buildings and overthrowing our government, President Yanukovych is the elected president and he is the one we recognize.

00:40:10.540 No, within a nanosecond, Obama recognized the new post-coup regime, the one that Zelensky leads today.

00:40:20.100 And amazingly, you know, according to script, honest to God, one of the first things that this new regime, this regime brought to power by an American participation in a coup.

00:40:37.400 Not only Americans, there were Ukrainian right wing forces also, but America played its active role.

00:40:44.740 What is one of the first things they say?

00:40:46.980 They say, we think Russia should exit from Crimea.

00:40:51.780 What does that mean?

00:40:53.180 We think the Russian military base needs to leave Crimea.

00:40:58.300 Now, it's interesting, under Yanukovych's term, Yanukovych and Putin had negotiated not a territorial annexation of Crimea, but rather a 25-year lease.

00:41:12.580 Thank you very much that Russia will keep its naval base in Crimean Sevastopol.

00:41:18.720 But immediately, the post-coup regime reads the script and says, we don't think Russia should be in Crimea.

00:41:25.640 In other words, a subscript, NATO is going to take over the military base in the Black Sea.

00:41:34.000 That's when Russia immediately organizes a referendum and Crimea is taken into Russian hands.

00:41:42.860 This wasn't an innocent event.

00:41:45.860 This was part of the playbook of the United States.

00:41:49.540 The war started in February 2014.

00:41:53.540 It didn't start with the invasion by Russia in February 2022.

00:41:59.120 That was a major escalation.

00:42:01.420 But the war started in February 2014.

00:42:04.900 It escalated.

00:42:06.780 The U.S. built up the Ukrainian military to be the largest standing army of Europe.

00:42:13.840 In fact, by 2021, when Biden came into office, Putin tried one more time.

00:42:24.300 Would you commit or we call on you to commit to not enlarge NATO to Ukraine?

00:42:32.280 And we've talked about it.

00:42:35.180 I begged Jake Sullivan in a phone call in December 2021.

00:42:41.620 Jake, take the agreement.

00:42:43.440 Are you kidding?

00:42:44.120 Avoid the war. 0.77

00:42:45.780 No, no.

00:42:46.920 We can't do that.

00:42:48.800 NATO, open door.

00:42:50.920 So-called.

00:42:52.680 In other words, we're determined to move NATO into Ukraine. 0.88

00:42:57.500 And Jeff, don't worry.

00:42:58.980 There won't be a war.

00:42:59.900 Another brilliant utterance of Professor Jake Sullivan, who got everything wrong from beginning

00:43:08.100 to end, as far as I'm concerned.

00:43:10.160 So then Russia invaded on February 24th, 2022.

00:43:17.660 And what was the point of that invasion?

00:43:23.440 In our hopeless mainstream media, which is, again, New York Times, I'll use as a reference

00:43:32.260 point, phony from morning till night, it was to take over Ukraine.

00:43:36.520 No, it was not to take over Ukraine.

00:43:38.800 It was to push Ukraine to accept neutrality.

00:43:43.720 This was the point of the invasion.

00:43:46.060 And it was absolutely clear because within seven days, Zelensky said, OK, OK, OK, OK, we

00:43:53.980 can be neutral.

00:43:55.460 And within a couple of weeks, the Ukrainians had submitted a paper to the Russians to say,

00:44:02.460 why don't we just have neutrality?

00:44:06.020 And the Russians took that paper to President Putin.

00:44:09.760 And Putin said, OK, look, let's negotiate and we can find a resolution of this.

00:44:18.540 And that's when the so-called Istanbul process began.

00:44:22.440 The Turkish government said we will be a mediator.

00:44:26.680 I went and talked at length to the Turkish negotiators to understand all the details about

00:44:32.580 this. But the fact of the matter is, in March 2022, as I was saying earlier, there were very

00:44:40.120 rapid advances of a peace agreement.

00:44:44.460 By March 28, 2022, there was actually a joint communique between Russia and Ukraine saying,

00:44:53.700 we have reached a framework for peace.

00:44:57.240 This is forgotten completely today.

00:44:59.900 Then just two weeks later, specifically April 15th, there was a draft agreement on the table.

00:45:06.900 Not everything was agreed.

00:45:08.120 There were some important points.

00:45:10.160 But basically, there was an agreement and serious negotiators would have completed the work.

00:45:15.800 That's when the United States told the Ukrainians, no, no, you fight on.

00:45:20.620 Now, this comes to your question.

00:45:23.740 Why did the U.S. say that then?

00:45:26.300 And why does the war continue now, even though clearly President Trump wants this war to end?

00:45:34.980 Well, it continued then because it was undoubtedly the deep state idea.

00:45:41.360 And I spoke to U.S. government officials.

00:45:44.760 A few of them still spoke to me at the time.

00:45:47.240 I knew senior officials.

00:45:48.900 They absolutely believed that the economic sanctions would bring Russia to its knees, for example.

00:45:57.640 There was once upon a time that cutting Russia out from swift was called the nuclear option.

00:46:04.740 Kind of a mind-boggling ignorance and delusion that America runs everything.

00:46:11.140 So if we put sanctions on Russia, that will crush the Russian economy.

00:46:18.600 They didn't factor in the fact that Russia happens to sell commodities that are easily fungible and that are not so hard to direct to India, by the way, which then can resell to Europe.

00:46:35.160 So it's a little bit more costly. 1.00

00:46:37.700 It's stupid. 1.00

00:46:38.780 It's scratching your left ear with your right arm. 1.00

00:46:41.620 You know, it's not the most direct way to do things.

00:46:44.340 We make everything more expensive, less efficient.

00:46:47.160 But Europe still buys all this stuff.

00:46:50.080 The Indians are middlemen. 1.00

00:46:54.160 Of course, they buy a lot of oil for their own refining.

00:46:57.600 China buys gas and oil and so forth.

00:47:00.100 So Russia isn't brought to its knees, but they believed it then. 0.72

00:47:03.340 Okay.

00:47:03.800 Well, not only is Russia brought to its knees, would you rather have the Russian economy or the American economy right now?

00:47:10.920 That's an interesting question.

00:47:13.100 Let me come to that in a moment because I want to address the question why this persists.

00:47:20.920 Okay.

00:47:22.560 So they really believed that there would be victory in short order.

00:47:29.320 And if it wasn't the nuclear option, God, I hate the term because we're close to nuclear war.

00:47:35.760 But if it weren't the nuclear option, so-called, of cutting Russia out of the swift banking system, it would be the HIMARS. 0.78

00:47:42.320 It would be the ATTACMS.

00:47:43.540 Or it was the idea that Putin will never mobilize because that would be so unpopular, it would bring him down.

00:47:52.220 Or it was the idea that there would be an internal coup, Pregosian, or some other concocted event, and so on.

00:48:01.320 Okay.

00:48:02.000 This was delusion morning till night, very typical of American foreign policy.

00:48:09.300 In comes President Trump. 0.91

00:48:10.960 Now, President Trump understands clearly this is really screwed up.

00:48:19.220 This is not helping Ukraine.

00:48:21.640 Ukraine cannot win on the battlefield.

00:48:25.040 More war means more deaths by the hundreds of thousands.

00:48:29.600 More, not less, loss of territory.

00:48:32.320 And the whole idea, what are we fighting over?

00:48:37.900 This NATO enlargement, eh, I'm not interested.

00:48:41.700 This is President Trump's very accurate view of the situation.

00:48:46.280 And I think he gets it. 1.00

00:48:48.580 This is a stupid war. 1.00

00:48:50.300 This is an unnecessary war. 1.00

00:48:52.060 This is a costly war.

00:48:53.480 This diverts American attention.

00:48:55.480 This costs tens or hundreds of billions of dollars, depending on how long this goes on.

00:49:03.180 And so he says the war should end.

00:49:05.740 Completely right.

00:49:07.480 And he enunciates an absolutely basic point, clearly, which is NATO should not expand. 1.00

00:49:18.320 This is stupid. 1.00

00:49:19.600 This is the cause of this whole thing. 1.00

00:49:23.840 That is the basis for ending this war. 0.92

00:49:26.800 We're not far from it.

00:49:29.060 But here's the sad fact.

00:49:33.100 Waging peace actually is as complicated as waging war.

00:49:38.880 And that is a paradox.

00:49:41.160 It seems not right.

00:49:43.060 Why doesn't peace just come when you say you don't want to fight?

00:49:46.680 And the reason is that the forces that want war are really powerful.

00:49:55.520 They don't just stop.

00:49:57.520 They don't stop because the president opines that the war should end.

00:50:02.100 The war has a lot of supporters.

00:50:05.480 Why?

00:50:06.380 Because from the American point of view, the project continues.

00:50:11.180 We can defeat Russia. 0.79

00:50:12.580 And why not have more war? 0.90

00:50:14.880 The war is good on many, many counts. 0.89

00:50:17.240 It weakens Russia. 0.64

00:50:19.140 We get to test our weapon systems.

00:50:22.060 As I can't even stand it.

00:50:26.220 But as many of our senators from Blumenthal and Romney and others have vulgarly said, this is great.

00:50:33.500 No Americans are dying.

00:50:35.040 As if more than a million Ukrainian casualties means nothing.

00:50:41.340 And according to our politicians, to them, to American politicians, it means absolutely nothing.

00:50:49.380 It doesn't mean anything.

00:50:50.820 You never hear them.

00:50:51.840 You hear them talk about their bravery.

00:50:54.360 You don't hear them talk about the kinds of emails that I receive, including one that I just received from somebody who said, Mr. Sachs, they're about to send me off to die.

00:51:06.260 Someone from Ukraine who just found my email publicly.

00:51:09.400 And he said, I'm 48 years old and they're sending me to the front lines.

00:51:12.860 48 years old.

00:51:13.460 Yes.

00:51:13.720 So I'm sending a message that I know I'm about to die.

00:51:19.280 And it's true. 0.56

00:51:19.900 They send these middle-aged people, disabled people, kids grabbed off the streets, delivery boys off of bicycles, grabbed by these so-called recruiters who are thugs who pull them into vans.

00:51:35.800 And then they're sent off to the front lines and they're dying under the drones.

00:51:41.580 So for the American deep state, they don't care.

00:51:46.860 They don't count that.

00:51:47.940 They, the war is okay. 1.00

00:51:51.140 Then in Europe, we brought in a, the CIA has, of course, created a European-wide security system, largely out of view.

00:52:07.080 But whatever the CIA does here, think of the MI6 in Britain operating in the same way, even more disastrously.

00:52:17.400 Think of BND in Germany, actually, which if you go back to 1945, not to go into too many details, has its Nazi roots.

00:52:27.620 But the CIA created it after 1945 with the former Nazi intelligence agents to fight against the Soviet Union, taking them straight out of Hitler's intelligence into U.S. intelligence back in 1945, so-called Galen operation.

00:52:46.620 Anyway, we have this whole network, and this network is still going.

00:52:53.140 So the reason you have to wage peace is the president, he's just the president, after all.

00:53:02.460 He faces, throughout the U.S. government, he faces the Lindsey Grahams and the Richard Blumenthal's.

00:53:11.340 He faces the CIA operations. 0.99

00:53:15.680 He faces these pathetic politicians. 1.00

00:53:20.160 They're pathetic because they don't represent their national interests at all. 1.00

00:53:23.760 They represent this deep state approach. 0.99

00:53:26.980 Starmer, who seems to do nothing more than parrot MI6 lines.

00:53:33.180 Macron in France.

00:53:35.980 Mertz in Germany.

00:53:37.920 They're all warmongers.

00:53:40.140 And Zelensky, who is Zelensky?

00:53:42.680 Zelensky was put in by, he's part of a regime put in by a coup.

00:53:47.960 He won an election, but an election in this post-coup regime.

00:53:53.540 He is way over his due date from his electoral mandate, as everybody knows.

00:54:00.900 He rules by martial law.

00:54:02.440 Now, he's surrounded by complete hardliners, and I've been told, I don't know if it's true or not, but senior people in Ukraine have said, well, he has no choice.

00:54:16.920 He'll get knocked off by his own side if he, this could be completely true, but he's not representing the Ukrainian people who he's killing.

00:54:24.960 He's representing a clique that's in power right now.

00:54:30.180 So, this is actually Trump's world.

00:54:34.900 To bring the war to a close requires a lot of coordinated activity.

00:54:43.760 It requires an absolutely unified team.

00:54:50.580 But remember, in Washington, everyone's partly bought out by someone else, by the military-industrial complex.

00:54:59.620 And so, you hear lots of cacophony.

00:55:02.360 You hear lots of confusion.

00:55:05.740 You hear lots of ultimatums given.

00:55:08.880 But President Trump's really trying to bring about peace.

00:55:14.680 Now, what has happened is Trump has said, I want peace.

00:55:25.320 He's faced this mountain of deep state or this chorus of deep state and European and Zelensky opposition.

00:55:36.440 No, no, we want war. 0.89

00:55:38.240 We want war. 0.98

00:55:39.080 We don't want peace.

00:55:40.420 We'll never give in.

00:55:42.260 And he has, President Trump has usefully tried to maneuver both sides to the negotiating table.

00:55:50.840 And that we should give him all our support and all credit for doing that.

00:55:57.820 But this system is not tamped down in any way because just before the recent round of this one-hour second meeting of the Russians and Ukrainians,

00:56:16.360 the Ukrainian SBU, the secret intelligence agency, launched two attacks deep inside Russia.

00:56:27.160 One, a straightforward terrorist attack, blowing up a civilian railroad, killing a large number of children and people going off for holidays by blowing up a railroad and a railroad bridge inside Russia.

00:56:46.840 The second operation was profoundly more dangerous.

00:56:52.920 Zelensky probably gave it the name afterwards of Operation Spiderweb, which should tell you a lot.

00:57:01.680 And that was a drone attack on several military bases, hundreds or thousands of kilometers inside Russia's territory on Russia's strategic bomber fleet,

00:57:19.540 meaning the air force that carries nuclear weapons.

00:57:25.300 I'm sorry.

00:57:26.500 This is no joke.

00:57:28.680 This is no small matter.

00:57:32.640 Could the Ukrainians have done that without Western intelligence help?

00:57:36.340 Of course not.

00:57:37.440 Remember in 2020 when CNN told you the George Floyd riots were mostly peaceful?

00:57:43.280 Even as flames rose in the background?

00:57:45.740 It was ridiculous, but it was also a metaphor for the way our leaders run this country.

00:57:51.740 They're constantly telling you everything is fine. 0.90

00:57:55.100 Everything is fine.

00:57:56.660 Don't worry.

00:57:58.480 Everything's under control.

00:57:59.600 Nothing to see here.

00:58:00.400 Move along and obey.

00:58:02.580 No one believes that.

00:58:04.740 Crime is not going away.

00:58:06.400 Supply chains remain fragile.

00:58:08.140 It does feel like some kind of global conflict could break out at any time.

00:58:12.160 So the question is, if things went south tomorrow, would you be ready?

00:58:16.780 Well, if you're not certain that you'd be ready, you need Ammo Squared.

00:58:20.920 Ammo Squared is the only service that lets you build an ammunition stockpile automatically.

00:58:25.440 You literally set it on autopilot.

00:58:27.180 You pick the calibers you want, how much you want to save every month, then they'll ship it to you.

00:58:31.220 Or they'll store it for you and ship it when you say so.

00:58:33.760 You get 24-7 access to manage the whole thing.

00:58:37.380 So don't let the people in charge, don't let CNN lull you into a fake sense of safety.

00:58:46.560 Take control of your life.

00:58:48.420 Protect your family.

00:58:49.760 Be prepared.

00:58:50.920 Go to AmmoSquared.com to learn more.

00:58:53.940 This is a Western intelligence operation.

00:58:57.000 Don Jr. here, guys.

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00:59:46.860 Banks are providing what it takes for businesses to operate today and plan for tomorrow.

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00:59:53.100 Fueling economic growth.

00:59:54.760 Paid for by United for a Strong Economy.

00:59:56.560 Well, then how-

00:59:59.020 Without question.

00:59:59.900 But the White House wasn't, as far as I know, and I think this is right, the White House didn't know it was coming.

01:00:05.260 First of all, the CIA does not tell this White House a lot of things, no doubt.

01:00:12.400 Well, how can that be?

01:00:14.020 Because partly it is-

01:00:15.400 The CIA works for the president.

01:00:16.480 Partly it is a tradition of deniability.

01:00:19.540 So, the CIA, for decades and decades, has done very, very dangerous things, not telling the president on the grounds that, well, better that the president doesn't quite know this because we need the president to be able to deny this.

01:00:40.040 Partly because it's not just that, but also because the CIA is a self-protecting, self-operating organization that has not had accountability for 50 years.

01:00:58.680 And so, it is an out-of-control organization, in my opinion.

01:01:03.180 Well, how can you have a democracy if you've got a paramilitary and intelligence-gathering force that has no civilian control?

01:01:08.740 Well, our democracy is a democracy in form, but not in substance on many, many points.

01:01:17.140 Obviously, our foreign policy is not democratically determined.

01:01:21.980 Most of what the United States does is never explained or justified or voted by the American people.

01:01:29.380 So, there's nothing democratic about American foreign policy, especially when we go to war.

01:01:34.140 We go to war nonstop, either without saying anything to the American people or on the basis of outright lies.

01:01:43.600 And so, there's nothing democratic about it at all.

01:01:47.500 Congress doesn't vote the wars.

01:01:49.080 We don't appropriate the funds.

01:01:51.740 It's done on contingency funding that is completely without public scrutiny, without public explanation.

01:02:01.660 Now, on this particular event, of course, we've not heard anything except the White House declaring and saying to President Putin, we didn't know about it.

01:02:14.900 The fact of the matter is two alarming points.

01:02:19.640 One is, whether or not the White House knew, the operation itself is completely reckless and alarming because attacking part of the nuclear triad in this way is a step towards nuclear Armageddon.

01:02:43.140 Absolutely, absolutely, provocatively, recklessly dangerous.

01:02:50.820 And for the White House to say, we didn't know, is horrifying.

01:02:57.540 Either they're lying or they're telling the truth.

01:03:01.040 If they're lying, that's one thing.

01:03:03.220 If they're telling the truth, it's also horrifying.

01:03:05.880 What the hell's going on?

01:03:07.440 Are you kidding?

01:03:08.120 So, what's the thinking?

01:03:09.700 I mean, an act like that could trigger a nuclear exchange.

01:03:13.520 Absolutely.

01:03:14.340 So, why would you do it?

01:03:16.740 Because it's always been the case that desperate regimes like the Ukrainian regime will gamble the world for their own survival.

01:03:32.960 It's our job to understand that American foreign policy is not to support a reckless Ukrainian regime.

01:03:43.420 Given the number of leaders we've taken out, couped, assassinated, overthrown and called revolutions, whatever, same effect, regime change.

01:03:50.240 Why not do that to Zelensky?

01:03:51.600 What I believe we should do is very simple, and that is have a direct, clear, unambiguous negotiation with Russia over security issues.

01:04:05.960 And in the end, we can't control Ukraine, but they can't fight without the United States. 0.95

01:04:14.420 And because we have operated in this kind of ambiguous zone in the first months of the Trump administration, there is the ever-present effort of the deep state to turn the president.

01:04:31.300 And they know the president's turn.

01:04:34.320 They know they can do this if they're persistent enough.

01:04:37.560 They know they can keep up these operations.

01:04:39.980 They know or they think they know that eventually the combined voices of Lindsey Graham and other warmongers in Congress and the Europeans and Zelensky and pounding this. 0.98

01:05:00.480 And the New York Times, with its idiotic editorializing and all the rest, will tell the president, don't be an appeaser, don't give in, fight Russia. 0.99

01:05:13.640 You know how evil they are. 1.00

01:05:15.440 And so they believe that they'll ultimately win the fight.

01:05:20.760 President Trump has not put an end to that, I have to say.

01:05:26.960 He can't put an end to people saying it, but he does have the constitutional authority to put an end to it from the point of view of the substance of U.S. foreign policy.

01:05:42.980 And that's the difference.

01:05:45.180 What he's wanted to do is to try to bring these groups along.

01:05:51.800 He's tried to say, yeah, we'll push the Russians.

01:05:58.940 He turns every couple of weeks, you know, against Putin in a post and so forth.

01:06:05.260 It's clear what he wants to do, which is to end the war, to extricate the United States from this.

01:06:12.140 But he's trying to have it both ways.

01:06:15.200 My own personal view is you can't.

01:06:17.800 President Trump has to understand, I'm sure he does, how deep the deep state is, how far down this goes, how this is not, by the way, only Biden's losing war.

01:06:32.060 It's also Obama's losing war.

01:06:34.220 It's also Bush Jr.

01:06:38.680 It goes back to Clinton.

01:06:40.080 This is a long story, and Trump is trying to put an end to the story because it's a failure, and he understands it's a complete failure, and he's completely right when he says they don't have the, you know, we don't have the cards, or Biden didn't have the cards.

01:06:54.700 He didn't know how to do this.

01:06:55.840 Completely correct.

01:06:56.760 But what he can't do is leave everything ambiguous because the way our system works is that the war machine is revving all the time, all the time.

01:07:10.120 It's a big operation.

01:07:11.720 It's more than a trillion dollars a year war machine, after all.

01:07:15.480 You know, if you count everything, probably $1.5 trillion, and that's just the U.S. part of it.

01:07:20.560 Then look at all the military contractors in Europe and all the rest that is faced.

01:07:26.840 So President Trump needs to close down that part by really ending the war.

01:07:37.460 And the way to end the war, sad to say, it's not by negotiations between Ukraine and Russia because we use these terms, Ukraine.

01:07:47.760 But what is Ukraine when it negotiates?

01:07:50.280 It's Zelensky and a small number of people in military rule.

01:07:56.620 Okay, they have their own personal interests, maybe financial, maybe their heads, maybe they're not Ukraine.

01:08:04.360 So what can President Trump do?

01:08:07.560 He can say clearly unambiguously a few points.

01:08:11.840 Sit down with President Putin, because these are the two superpowers involved in this war, and say, we absolutely agree NATO will not enlarge because this is a U.S. military alliance, and we, by treaty, agree that that will stop because that's part of our mutual security arrangement with you.

01:08:36.400 We recognize Crimea as Russian, because we understand that this goes back to 1783.

01:08:44.320 It goes back to 1856.

01:08:46.320 It goes back to 1997.

01:08:48.220 It goes back to 2014.

01:08:50.460 We don't want to play that game anymore.

01:08:54.240 On this basis, Starmer and Macron and Mertz and Tusk, they can all jump up and down, but they can't do anything anymore.

01:09:06.080 And Lindsey Graham can't do anything anymore on this. 0.99

01:09:10.100 The war will stop. 0.91

01:09:11.800 This is really, we're close, by the way.

01:09:14.440 It's not far from that.

01:09:15.880 But the point is, what Trump has been saying is, I want the Ukrainians to agree, but they have a different agenda.

01:09:27.300 And it's not the agenda for Ukraine.

01:09:31.040 President Trump is speaking more for the Ukrainian people than Zelensky is.

01:09:35.240 This is the point.

01:09:36.840 So I think the status quo, as I understand it, as of right now, which is Monday, June 9th, is that negotiation, you know, that it's hard to negotiate your way out.

01:09:48.800 And I don't think the president, you know, he didn't start this where he's frustrated.

01:09:52.900 He doesn't want to take credit for it.

01:09:54.020 He doesn't.

01:09:54.980 So the current view, and I think he said this in public, is, you know, I'm backing off.

01:10:00.760 You guys fight it out.

01:10:02.700 What are the risks in that?

01:10:03.940 I would go further, which is, I would say, the U.S. and Russia have real security issues.

01:10:14.540 And they became even more dramatic after MI6, CIA, SBU attacked the Russian strategic triad.

01:10:29.220 The bomber fleet.

01:10:29.940 So we need to sit down with the Russians.

01:10:35.720 And it's just the two of us negotiating.

01:10:38.580 We don't have Starmer there.

01:10:40.260 We don't have Macron there.

01:10:41.960 We don't have Zelensky there.

01:10:43.580 This, after all, is between the two leading nuclear superpowers of the world that we not go any farther than that.

01:10:52.500 But President Trump can say, I'm concerned about what our own intelligence agencies may have been doing.

01:10:58.560 How could it be that for 18 months this was being planned and they didn't know if that's the truth?

01:11:07.400 That is a level of incompetence beyond imagining we have to clean up our shop.

01:11:12.660 Or if they did know and they didn't tell me, that is a level of recklessness that we have to clean up because it's completely unacceptable for the security of the American people.

01:11:24.180 And in the meantime, I and President Putin have some real discussions to do.

01:11:30.880 What they would come up with would be clear demarcations that would keep the two superpowers from each other's neck.

01:11:42.220 Like the Ukrainian attack, which is completely unacceptable, endangers the entire world and is preventable by the president of the United States. 0.97

01:11:54.180 On that basis, then I would say after that, if Ukraine wants to continue to fight on without any of our support, any of our weapons, not buying weapons, by the way, not anything, period.

01:12:09.480 Okay, they can do so, but we're done being endangered by this recklessness.

01:12:16.600 I resent completely that Zelensky endangered my family last week. 0.94

01:12:22.720 I agree.

01:12:24.000 Completely.

01:12:25.080 But it's not, I mean, you're describing a scenario where this war is being run by three intelligence services, in your description, CIA, MI6 and SBU, without democratic input, without control by elected leaders,

01:12:38.940 including the president of the United States, and without the interests of the nations at heart.

01:12:45.960 Can you just define sort of a little more precisely what's going on?

01:12:49.480 And let's start with MI6.

01:12:50.520 What is MI6 and what's their role?

01:12:52.020 Yeah, just to say, the war is being fought with the Ukrainian troops dying and with a flow of armaments that has been in the pipeline.

01:13:04.820 That pipeline can stop and then the war will stop.

01:13:09.600 So it's not, I don't want to imply that the CIA, MI6, BND, SBU can fight the war on their own.

01:13:19.840 They can't.

01:13:20.840 The pipeline exists because it still is the Biden pipeline.

01:13:25.540 It still is whatever Europe is managing.

01:13:29.400 But that pipeline of armaments and finance is basically coming to an end and Trump should end it definitively.

01:13:41.160 And then Ukrainians literally can't fight. 0.99

01:13:46.520 Of course, Europe would try little bits here and there. 0.98

01:13:52.460 And if they're stupider and more reckless than one can imagine, they may try more stunts like the ones that they did a couple of weeks ago, which endangered the whole world. 0.97

01:14:05.920 But they cannot fight a war afterwards. 0.99

01:14:10.160 At that point, you know, what would happen?

01:14:13.620 What would happen is either Russia indeed takes over essentially Ukraine in terms of military occupation or a peace is reached.

01:14:24.860 One of the two things happens.

01:14:27.060 But that's how to stop the war is to stop the pipeline of funding.

01:14:32.440 When I talk about the deep state role, they are the cheerleaders.

01:14:38.600 They are the managers.

01:14:39.780 They are the designers.

01:14:41.280 We're not at a stage where they appropriate their own funds.

01:14:44.820 So I don't want to be misunderstood in that way.

01:14:47.600 They cannot continue the war.

01:14:49.560 But they're very powerful in the U.S. system.

01:14:52.720 And in the U.S. system, this war has not been an unpopular war for the U.S.

01:15:00.400 It's been a deep state project for more than 30 years.

01:15:05.460 And the idea was to shield the American people from it, mainly secret, once in a while, like we had the story about how the CIA was operating all over Ukraine that the New York Times ran one day.

01:15:20.520 You hear bits and pieces, but the idea is to shield the American people from these wars.

01:15:26.100 The main way we do it is that we don't have our boots on the ground.

01:15:29.120 Just lack of information.

01:15:30.280 It's the Ukrainians dying. 1.00

01:15:31.640 And so there's no body bags coming home to us.

01:15:35.520 The body bags, if they go back at all, they go back to Ukraine.

01:15:39.320 So the idea is not that they are the ones that can make the war happen.

01:15:50.160 They are the main lobbyists for the war.

01:15:52.340 They are the main protagonists.

01:15:53.960 They are the deep strategists of what should be done.

01:15:59.220 Of course, there's a military component also, not only the intelligence system, but both are playing their role.

01:16:05.660 But the president can stop this.

01:16:09.400 All I'm saying is that it's a lot of political effort to stop it.

01:16:13.620 And he is facing a wall of this deep state opposition.

01:16:18.960 And the way out of that is actually not the tactic that he's been pursuing of getting the Ukrainians to agree.

01:16:29.060 Because from the Ukrainian option, the better thing is run around to the CIA, to MI6, to all the other agencies. 0.98

01:16:39.080 Run around to the European leaders.

01:16:41.660 Run to everyone to try to turn Donald Trump.

01:16:47.040 And I'm saying what President Trump has is two things.

01:16:52.240 One is he has constitutional authority.

01:16:55.020 And the second, he and he alone has the direct line to President Putin.

01:17:00.560 And the two superpowers are the protagonists in this fundamentally.

01:17:05.160 That's right.

01:17:05.680 And they can end the war between the two of them.

01:17:08.920 Not to stop the Ukrainians from fighting, but to stop Ukraine from having the means to fight. 0.63

01:17:15.480 Right.

01:17:15.600 The Ukrainians can't fight one day without U.S. intelligence, by the way.

01:17:20.560 Not just the armaments, but without the intelligence.

01:17:23.760 But if President Trump gave that order, would it be affected?

01:17:28.600 I mean, who was the last president to control the CIA?

01:17:31.760 The last U.S. president who had actual control over CIA?

01:17:35.880 No one had actual control over the CIA.

01:17:39.140 Ever?

01:17:39.620 Ever, because most of the time, with one pertinent, horrible example, presidents have gone along with the CIA.

01:17:51.480 Of course, the one horrible, shocking, disgusting example is John F. Kennedy, who famously said that he would like to take the CIA and tear it into a thousand pieces.

01:18:07.600 And maybe those were his last words, in essence.

01:18:12.540 So if you look big picture at the United States, you don't have a real country as long as the CIA.

01:18:17.980 I mean, everything since November of 63 has been post-coup.

01:18:21.660 I believe that we have not brought this absolutely dangerous part of our government under any effective control for a half century.

01:18:36.660 The last time that there was any slight measure of control and accountability was 1975, 50 years ago, with the church committee.

01:18:50.660 Frank Church from Idaho, uniquely in the whole history of the CIA since 1947, did a real investigation.

01:19:00.460 Of course, as soon as they looked under the covers, it was horrifying, horrifying what they found.

01:19:09.180 They found recklessness, assassinations, coups, regime change operations, MKUltra, the shocking CIA attempts to create assassins.

01:19:31.060 And Manchurian candidates, so-called, and experimentation with hallucinogens for the sake of intelligence operations. 0.80

01:19:44.680 Really vulgar, disgusting, awful stuff.

01:19:49.320 That was 1975.

01:19:50.820 That's the last time there has been an actual accounting of what the CIA has done.

01:19:59.340 Let me give just the most pertinent example of what we're talking about.

01:20:03.620 What actually happened in the so-called Maidan, in the coup, in 2014?

01:20:10.600 Do we know every point?

01:20:12.880 I happen to know certain things just because I saw certain things with my own eyes.

01:20:16.980 I was told certain things.

01:20:18.500 But has anything been explained in a single day once?

01:20:23.520 Has the New York Times ever run an honest story?

01:20:28.560 Of course not.

01:20:29.780 Has the government ever been called to account even once?

01:20:35.100 Of course not.

01:20:36.640 Has there been a public hearing in the Senate even once of an event that affects our security absolutely fundamentally?

01:20:47.120 Of course not.

01:20:49.880 And I could go on with 50 examples like this where the deep state is unaccountable, where there are no answers, where nothing is heard.

01:21:00.960 Yesterday we heard about Area 51, you know, we heard about how the U.S. military concocted phony stories which lived for decades in order to hide secret weapons development programs.

01:21:19.960 Our government lies every day, the security state.

01:21:25.920 And the danger of that is that don't call that national security.

01:21:34.340 This is national insecurity.

01:21:36.620 We have never been more endangered than we are today.

01:21:40.600 It's so weird.

01:21:41.360 We should be the safest country in the history of the world.

01:21:46.340 And we would be if it were not for the risk of nuclear war. 0.94

01:21:51.580 And yet we're closer to that than at any time because of the stupidity, I have to say, of these deep state, unexamined, unaccountable strategies of going up against other major powers in the most reckless ways. 0.96

01:22:09.640 And I use the language because we're just a few days after an absolutely disgusting, unacceptable intelligence agency operation attacking strategic bombers deep inside Russia. 0.95

01:22:25.600 Well, how long before there's like an attack that Russia can't ignore and that does lead? 0.79

01:22:34.020 I mean, it seems like all the incentives are in place for the Ukrainians working with MI6 and CIA to push us into a global conflict with Russia. 0.97

01:22:45.300 Absolutely.

01:22:46.040 And if it's not Ukraine, it's Israel or someone else.

01:22:50.360 There's so many, our foreign policy is so suborned, so much not in America's interest, so much used by the military industrial state or particular lobbies in favor of particular places.

01:23:08.920 We could be yanked into war for absolutely no consequential reasons whatsoever when we should be enjoying the height of our national security.

01:23:23.000 And in 1991, I witnessed it with my own eyes.

01:23:26.960 We had everything we could have ever dreamt.

01:23:31.140 Our erstwhile foe, and that's another long story why they were the foe.

01:23:38.600 But our erstwhile foe of the Cold War said, we don't want to be an enemy.

01:23:44.100 We want to be friends.

01:23:45.940 We want to open up.

01:23:47.400 We want to reform.

01:23:48.800 We want to be with you.

01:23:50.440 In fact, of course, famously, Putin said, we want to be part of NATO.

01:23:56.280 He did.

01:23:57.260 And it's no joke.

01:23:58.920 And when Putin came in, by the way, he was completely pro-American and pro-European.

01:24:05.280 I know.

01:24:06.340 Completely.

01:24:06.820 Well, he still is the most pro-Western leader that country will ever have again.

01:24:11.540 Yeah.

01:24:11.880 No, it's unbelievable.

01:24:13.820 We can't accept peace for an answer.

01:24:16.540 But that's why the president of the United States has to stop the war machine. 0.80

01:24:22.420 So no matter how you feel about Donald Trump, it's hard to deny that his second term has been a whirlwind.

01:24:27.320 It's amazing how fast this administration is advancing its agenda, reporting illegal aliens, slashing government waste, an entirely new trade strategy.

01:24:36.720 No one has ever seen anything like it.

01:24:38.400 They are not messing around.

01:24:39.580 Now, many people are thrilled by this fast start, but it's going to take a lot more than this to achieve the ultimate goal.

01:24:44.620 And that's why our friends at the Heritage Foundation are mobilizing supporters, patriots across the country, to support this administration and the broader conservative movement.

01:24:53.060 And they need your help to do that.

01:24:54.800 You can go to heritage.org slash survey to complete their national survey on Donald Trump's second term agenda.

01:25:01.960 What you tell them will help their team work with the White House to make the president's campaign promises a reality.

01:25:10.420 I used to work at Heritage 35 years ago.

01:25:13.160 Gave me my first job.

01:25:14.460 I've always been grateful for that.

01:25:16.480 Heritage is not like every other think tank in D.C., almost all of which are part of the problem.

01:25:21.180 Heritage is fighting the problem.

01:25:23.340 I can say that.

01:25:24.440 Go to heritage.org slash survey to help them fill out the survey.

01:25:27.660 Heritage.org slash survey.

01:25:30.000 To the second conflict raging that, as you just said, has the potential to engulf the world, and then that's Iran, which is obviously connected to a bunch of other conflicts around that region.

01:25:46.780 Where are we in averting a war with Iran right now?

01:25:53.060 Good news, of course, is that President Trump is negotiating.

01:25:58.760 He's resisting Netanyahu's constant call for the U.S. to go to war with Iran.

01:26:08.640 And that call by Bibi for yet another war in the Middle East is yet another of these long-term deep state projects. 0.89

01:26:19.160 This is an Israeli projects.

01:26:21.160 This is an Israeli project primarily, but the U.S. has been a party to Netanyahu's wars going back essentially 30 years.

01:26:29.920 Netanyahu came to office as Prime Minister of Israel first in 1996.

01:26:36.200 He did it with the backing of the U.S. political advisors, many of whom became senior U.S. officials.

01:26:45.680 And he did it on the basis of a strategy, a political strategy called Clean Break back in 1996.

01:26:56.320 And what Clean Break meant was a clean break with the idea of the two-state solution.

01:27:05.200 So the two-state solution means that there should be a state of Israel and a state of Palestine living side by side.

01:27:13.340 That goes back to the United Nations' 1947 partition plan idea.

01:27:20.400 Netanyahu leads a political party, the Likud, and a political alliance which holds that Israel should dominate all of the lands of that region,

01:27:35.940 including Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, but also into Lebanon and Syria and borders undefined,

01:27:47.280 but a very expansive view of what Israel's rule should be.

01:27:53.480 That's a quite outlandish and outrageous idea to most of the world.

01:28:00.380 And I would say to most Americans who say, look, just make peace and get on with it.

01:28:06.760 And the Palestinians who are 8 million people should have their place.

01:28:10.200 And the Israelis who are 8 million people should have their place and get on with it. 1.00

01:28:18.300 But this idea of the Clean Break is, no, we don't want to get on with it.

01:28:23.440 We want to control everything.

01:28:25.060 And Netanyahu's philosophy, or not philosophy, but his strategy, because it isn't just tactics, it's strategy.

01:28:34.360 The strategy is we know there'll be a lot of resistance, our domination over the Palestinian people, 1.00

01:28:42.000 apartheid regime, ethnic cleansing when we can get away with it, and so forth. 0.62

01:28:47.260 So we're going to face opposition.

01:28:49.340 We will face even militant opposition, Hamas or Hezbollah and so forth.

01:28:56.840 But Netanyahu pointed out something which is actually correct in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

01:29:05.420 He says these militants basically don't operate on their own.

01:29:10.440 That's true in general of these groups that we fight.

01:29:13.700 They are state-backed, and it has been true that Hezbollah and Hamas, for example, were backed by Iran for most of this period.

01:29:27.300 And so the idea of Netanyahu is don't make peace.

01:29:31.880 We want to win.

01:29:33.040 We want all the territory.

01:29:35.040 We don't accept two states.

01:29:37.900 We don't accept Palestinian rights and so forth. 0.99

01:29:41.380 We will win, but we don't win by defeating militant groups.

01:29:47.300 We win by destroying the governments that support those groups.

01:29:52.800 And that means war. 0.59

01:29:54.980 And it really means endless wars.

01:29:58.000 And the U.S. became the complicit party to this because of the U.S. deep state vision that Israel is our battleship or aircraft carrier in the Middle East, that it is our strategic asset in the Middle East.

01:30:19.200 And because of the Zionist lobby, which is itself a complicated political concoction in the United States.

01:30:26.560 But in any event, the U.S. completely bought into the Netanyahu idea, which is war after war after war.

01:30:38.760 And it's not well understood, but it should be because we've been told pretty clearly by no less than General Wesley Clark, for example.

01:30:51.180 Who was the commander of NATO forces, that the Pentagon has had a list of wars to prosecute that essentially is Netanyahu's list, actually.

01:31:08.300 After 9-11 in particular, that went into overdrive.

01:31:14.000 The U.S. as Wesley Clark was told, and as he subsequently explained to us, and as others have also explained to us, an Air Force commander named Dennis Fritz, who wrote a very important book called Deadly Betrayal in 2024, telling the same story in essence.

01:31:39.780 The Pentagon had a list which the neoconservatives or the deep state of the U.S. would carry out, which was we would take out the regimes in opposition to Israel.

01:31:55.020 And those regimes included, it's a long list.

01:32:01.140 Of course, not only the Palestinians, that's the point, but also Syria.

01:32:06.880 That was the regime of Bashar al-Assad, which was viewed by Netanyahu and by the U.S. deep state as an Iranian client.

01:32:18.780 So Syria would be one, Lebanon would be another, Iraq under Saddam Hussein would be another, the Iranian regime would be a fourth, and then, believe it or not, three countries in Africa, which are Islamic countries that supported the Palestinian cause.

01:32:44.040 And that was Muammar Gaddafi's Libya, that was Somalia and the Horn of Africa, and that was Sudan, which was a Sharia state in the 1990s. 0.83

01:32:59.860 Well, God damn, we've been to war with all of them except Iran, and not by accident. 0.98

01:33:06.880 The list is literally the guide in this case. 0.98

01:33:14.480 And again, it's not simple for Americans to connect the dots because these stories are not told, they're not explained, they're not debated, they're not voted.

01:33:29.220 These are presidential actions, by and large, one after another.

01:33:35.020 So let's go through them step by step.

01:33:38.380 One is the Iraq War, 2003.

01:33:41.840 We now know, not only was it under wrong pretenses, weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist, it was under completely phony, concocted, false pretenses.

01:33:56.160 And in 2002, the Pentagon actually did a PR analysis of how to sell the war to the American people, a unit by a guy named Abe Shulsky.

01:34:11.040 And he came up with a PR strategy, literally public relations, that the right narrative was weapons of mass destruction.

01:34:19.200 So this is not as it was subsequently told to us, oh, we made a mistake.

01:34:24.780 We didn't know that Saddam didn't have them. 0.99

01:34:28.480 This was a concocted narrative in 2002 to justify a war in 2003 to take away a regime that Netanyahu deemed to be hostile to Israel.

01:34:42.840 Then in 2011, again, something very basic but not understood by the American people because, again, the government lies and cheats and doesn't explain, the U.S. went to war in Syria.

01:35:03.140 Now, this was not a declared war.

01:35:06.240 There was never a presidential speech.

01:35:09.480 But the president said, President Obama said, Assad must go.

01:35:16.940 Okay, every time you hear an American president say some other leader must go, say, oh, my God, here we go again.

01:35:25.820 And the president signed a presidential finding called Operation Timber Sycamore, assigning the CIA with the task of organizing, training, financing, and arming an insurgency to overthrow Assad.

01:35:44.220 That came to fruition just in recent months.

01:35:49.320 That's how the new government came in.

01:35:51.480 Yes, in December of 2024.

01:35:53.460 Yes, unfortunately, very much unfortunately, it was after 13 years of war that killed hundreds of thousands of people and destroyed sites in Syria that date back thousands of years.

01:36:09.880 In other words, it was a destruction of one of the heritage sites of humanity because Netanyahu said, that guy's too close to Iran. 0.99

01:36:21.260 We need to take him out.

01:36:22.580 And by the way, it flooded Europe with migrants, too. 0.54

01:36:29.700 That's another fascinating story.

01:36:33.960 As all these migrants came in and wrecked European politics, not one politician in Europe said, oh, the United States shouldn't be engaged in an overthrow of Syria. 1.00

01:36:46.240 They can't connect the goddamn dots because everything's a lie. 0.99

01:36:51.040 All the narratives are narratives. 0.98

01:36:52.860 So when Obama comes out and says Assad must go, which I think in retrospect was a pivot point in modern history like that, because Syria is not Yemen.

01:37:02.560 It's on the Mediterranean.

01:37:03.420 By the way, Syria was viewed, you know, up until then, there's an IMF report, which I like to cite of 2009, praising the authorities on their growth strategy and reform.

01:37:15.840 This is crazy.

01:37:16.880 This is deciding to overthrow a country and without an iota of public discussion.

01:37:26.240 This is Hillary. 0.96

01:37:26.720 But a nice country, a civilized country with lots of doctors and accountants and scientists and like it's a real place.

01:37:33.780 And, of course, you paint the dictator to be the worst evil ever and so forth.

01:37:39.260 His wife had just appeared on the cover of Vogue when –

01:37:41.800 Right.

01:37:42.160 But whatever one says about Assad and so forth, the United States should not be overthrowing the government through a CIA operation.

01:37:51.140 Of course not.

01:37:51.440 And hundreds of thousands dead.

01:37:54.120 And it was a domino that led to greater human suffering and the destabilizing of Europe itself.

01:38:00.800 Absolutely.

01:38:01.420 It was a really, really big deal.

01:38:02.680 I just want to go back and linger for a second on why.

01:38:07.000 Why?

01:38:07.580 Yeah.

01:38:07.920 Why?

01:38:08.520 I mean, it was sort of a non sequitur.

01:38:10.260 All of a sudden, Obama stands up and says, Assad must go.

01:38:12.240 Assad who?

01:38:12.840 Why do we care about Assad?

01:38:13.980 Syria is on the list. 0.84

01:38:15.240 It's Iranian influence. 0.58

01:38:17.180 We got to take out Assad.

01:38:18.780 So it's purely for Israel, you're saying?

01:38:20.500 I think very substantially.

01:38:22.520 I'll tell you, again, Dennis Fritz, very interesting.

01:38:26.120 He's a very smart former Air Force commander who, strangely enough, resigned from the Air Force in 2003 because he couldn't get a clear explanation of why we were fighting Iraq.

01:38:46.200 And he's a very nice man.

01:38:48.060 And he said, I can't lead my troops if I can't explain.

01:38:51.640 And he was told from above, well, because we have the orders to.

01:38:55.380 This order came from the White House. 0.99

01:38:56.660 Shut up and do it. 1.00

01:38:57.100 Yeah. 0.99

01:38:57.220 And so he said, I can't lead troops under these circumstances.

01:39:01.400 So he resigned.

01:39:02.780 Then he was called back in 2005 to the Pentagon for a remarkable reason.

01:39:11.900 And that was the Douglas Feith, who was a senior Pentagon official, a neocon close to Netanyahu, the whole shebang, said, we want to declassify papers around the Iraq war.

01:39:28.100 And, okay, so Feith came back because he was an expert on classification and security issues and so forth.

01:39:36.140 Why did Feith want to do that?

01:39:38.200 Because he was writing his memoirs.

01:39:40.300 And so he wanted to include documents in his book.

01:39:43.860 So he hired Feith and Feith hired Dennis Fritz.

01:39:49.300 And Fritz got to read everything.

01:39:52.840 Where did this war come from?

01:39:54.540 What are all the communications?

01:39:55.860 So he's a little bit like Daniel Ellsberg in the Pentagon Papers.

01:40:00.160 Suddenly he's sitting there in 2005 reading all of the files.

01:40:04.860 And he only wrote about this 20 years later in this book, Deadly Betrayal.

01:40:10.420 And I got to speak with him at length and interviewed him.

01:40:14.160 He's a wonderful, gentle soul.

01:40:16.760 And he said he was shocked by what he read because he's reading it and he realizes this is Beebe's war.

01:40:23.760 We're going to war because Israel said so. 0.98

01:40:27.280 And Feith was Beebe's man in the Pentagon.

01:40:30.700 But how could Douglas Feith, who's an American citizen and an American official at the American Pentagon, do the bidding of a foreign government like that?

01:40:41.920 Well, because America has been doing Israel's bidding for 30 years for because of the Israel lobby, because of the concocted idea that this is U.S. security. 0.54

01:40:51.840 But sending young people to die, I mean, that's a pretty heavy thing to do.

01:40:56.160 As long as it's not American people to die. 1.00

01:40:58.460 Well, in that case, it was more heavy.

01:41:01.780 But actually, I apologize for that statement because most of the wars, we don't send our own Americans.

01:41:07.640 We send their young people to die. 1.00

01:41:09.400 But in the Iraq war, if you ask how we could do it, OK, it's a good question. 0.82

01:41:16.580 That war, I can't use the proper word that I would like to use because it's absolutely obscene.

01:41:24.680 But that war was so phony, so completely unjustified, so reckless.

01:41:32.640 That was a real turning point because it was so brazenly wrongheaded.

01:41:39.240 And who was the great cheerleader of that war in the fall of 2002?

01:41:44.080 And I encourage people, go online and watch it on tape.

01:41:47.440 Watch Bibi Netanyahu say how wonderful this war will be because Saddam will fall.

01:41:55.160 And that will lead to a chain reaction across the Middle East of bringing down the tyrants.

01:42:01.100 Bibi Netanyahu is full of, and I also won't say it, but this is how he's been for 30 years.

01:42:09.840 And the U.S. has done his bidding.

01:42:12.520 And in that case, and again, I apologize for my slip.

01:42:16.760 Yes, we sent our own to die out of complete phony pretenses.

01:42:26.220 It's not wrong, not mistaken, not an illusion, but because of a PR exercise to fight a war.

01:42:34.900 Because we must understand that behind everything we're talking about, whether it's expanding NATO, whether it's bringing down Russia,

01:42:45.840 whether it is fighting and bringing down Saddam or Assad or Gaddafi, the arrogance in Washington is the first point of reference.

01:42:58.160 They don't believe this is hard.

01:43:02.220 They don't believe it's costly.

01:43:04.820 They don't believe it will go wrong.

01:43:08.040 They screw up every time.

01:43:11.000 They fail every time.

01:43:13.040 And they get promoted every time.

01:43:15.500 They don't go away when they lose.

01:43:18.280 Look at Lindsey Graham. 1.00

01:43:19.480 He's been wrong on every single war, on every single piece of American foreign policy.

01:43:26.360 And he's still standing up there telling us what to do because there's no accountability.

01:43:32.980 But also no shame or inner compass.

01:43:34.860 I mean, you would think.

01:43:35.560 Oh, of course, no shame.

01:43:37.260 But don't you feel shame when you're wrong, especially when.

01:43:40.740 Yeah, you try to be right.

01:43:41.920 Absolutely.

01:43:42.660 Your bad decisions hurt people.

01:43:44.040 I mean, gosh.

01:43:44.880 Well, we don't have that.

01:43:46.100 We don't have any reflection or accountability.

01:43:49.480 And that is literally the case on all of this.

01:43:52.820 When you go back to bringing down Assad in Operation Timber Sycamore, I think I've checked 0.81

01:43:59.200 a couple of times.

01:44:00.120 I think the New York Times, again, I refer to that because it used to be the paper I read.

01:44:06.600 I think they mentioned it three times from 2012 onward.

01:44:12.180 That's all.

01:44:12.860 So how can the American people understand any of it?

01:44:16.820 And interestingly, amazingly, Russia came into the Syrian conflict in 2015.

01:44:24.540 And what was our reaction?

01:44:26.320 How dare Russia interfere?

01:44:28.560 You know, in other words, the phoniest narrative that there goes Putin again when we have been

01:44:34.880 inside for four years militarily trying to overthrow the other government.

01:44:41.660 Then came, just after that, by the way, after Assad must go, then they took out Gaddafi.

01:44:49.440 That was a NATO operation in which the U.S., France, and the United States—

01:44:55.380 I'm sorry, Jeff.

01:44:55.920 I'm going to have to stop you right there.

01:44:56.960 It was a NATO operation.

01:44:57.780 I know that NATO is a defensive alliance.

01:45:00.300 That's, yes.

01:45:01.400 So why would—right, defending the North Atlantic.

01:45:04.280 Why would NATO be killing leaders in Africa?

01:45:09.120 Because we needed to have the French, the British, and the Americans together to murder 1.00

01:45:16.120 the leader of Libya and overthrow the government.

01:45:20.180 That's why.

01:45:21.420 And so—

01:45:21.880 Did Libya get a lot better?

01:45:24.020 Libya has been in nonstop war since then.

01:45:27.980 Again, profound destruction, massive loss of life, and ongoing civil war.

01:45:35.960 And if—since I know many, many leaders around the world, I've asked them repeatedly,

01:45:45.420 why Gaddafi in 2011?

01:45:52.620 And you know what they tell me?

01:45:54.660 The leaders who are as close as can be to this, we don't know.

01:45:59.820 We—maybe Sarkozy hated him.

01:46:03.220 Maybe Gaddafi funded Sarkozy's campaign.

01:46:06.340 We don't know what this was really about.

01:46:09.480 I've talked to, recently, an African president very close to the scene, a very senior former

01:46:16.200 African president, who said to me, Jeff, I can't give you the answer to that question.

01:46:21.780 I've asked.

01:46:23.080 He's been involved.

01:46:24.420 I'll tell you another thing, quite interesting, by the way, about these wars.

01:46:29.380 In 2012, after the Syrian war broke out because of the United States—by the way, they say,

01:46:42.620 no, it was the Syrian people, the Free Syrian Army, and so forth.

01:46:47.560 Yes, yes, yes, tell me about it.

01:46:50.000 Who armed them?

01:46:50.900 Who paid for them?

01:46:51.800 Who trained them?

01:46:52.600 Who gave them military bases?

01:46:54.480 Of course, this is a CIA operation.

01:46:56.960 Stop talking romantically about this domestic insurrection.

01:47:02.420 This was a government operation.

01:47:04.700 Okay, after it started, the UN tried to stop the war because, failing to stop it, there would

01:47:13.040 be massive death and destruction, and in fact, there have been hundreds of thousands of deaths

01:47:17.460 after the fact.

01:47:19.260 So, a person I absolutely loved, Kofi Annan, the former secretary general of the UN, went as

01:47:28.980 the special envoy of the secretary general to Syria, and he met all the parties, and Kofi

01:47:36.140 Annan was a brilliant personality and a brilliant statesman, and he told me, just before resigning

01:47:45.000 in the spring of 2012, Jeff, there was a negotiated agreement.

01:47:51.460 And peace could have come, but there was one party that said no, and that was the United

01:48:00.120 States.

01:48:01.640 And I asked, why did the United States block the peace agreement?

01:48:08.020 He said, because the United States insisted that the only agreement he would sign would be

01:48:14.540 one in which Assad would leave the first day.

01:48:18.960 And Kofi Annan said to me, when I tried to say to the Americans that, well, there will

01:48:25.600 be a process, and under the agreement, there will be elections, and so forth, so there'll

01:48:29.860 be a process, he said, no, no, we will only agree if it's the first day.

01:48:36.560 So, this is how American arrogance works, how you end up with 500,000 dead, how you end

01:48:44.640 up with this, whatever this regime is in Syria right now.

01:48:50.920 It took 14 years.

01:48:53.100 It didn't come out of the blue.

01:48:55.160 It was an American operation from the start.

01:48:58.240 It then morphed in several ways.

01:49:01.800 But this is a long-term story.

01:49:03.540 And all of this is to say, and I mentioned not just Libya, but also Somalia, also Sudan,

01:49:12.920 where the United States, it did an absolutely amazing thing.

01:49:18.280 It supported an insurgency in South Sudan, what was then Southern Sudan, to break apart

01:49:25.780 Sudan because Sudan was an Islamist state supporting Palestine, blah, blah, blah.

01:49:31.420 So, we had to destroy Sudan, and they funded an insurgency for a long time, and then the 0.98

01:49:38.680 United States, quote, brokered a peace to give independence to South Sudan, okay?

01:49:46.520 The American geniuses have created an instability so great that we not only have two Sudans, Sudan 0.96

01:49:55.640 and South Sudan, we have civil wars in both Sudans.

01:49:59.120 So, this is ongoing, nonstop, massive deaths through another concoction of clean break,

01:50:10.180 BB, the deep state.

01:50:12.360 This is a disaster.

01:50:14.520 But it all goes back to the same route.

01:50:16.320 And the last country on that list, as you said at the outset, is Iran.

01:50:20.480 That's it.

01:50:20.800 We were hearing this week that Iran is just weeks away from building a nuclear weapon.

01:50:25.080 And so, we need to take out the nuclear sites.

01:50:29.300 We need to affect regime change in Iran.

01:50:32.740 I feel like I've been hearing that Iran is weeks away from a nuclear weapon for at least

01:50:37.100 25 years.

01:50:38.140 Yes.

01:50:40.040 Verbatim at least a decade, and for longer in substance, yes.

01:50:44.060 Is Iran weeks away from building a nuclear weapon?

01:50:46.260 Does Iran want a nuclear weapon?

01:50:48.300 Will Iran get a nuclear weapon?

01:50:49.860 What is the truth about Iran? 0.99

01:50:52.800 Iran does not want a nuclear weapon.

01:50:56.000 Iran's neighbors, like the Saudis and others in the Gulf, do not want Iran to have a nuclear

01:51:01.100 weapon.

01:51:02.020 Iran's major ally, Russia, does not want Iran to have a nuclear weapon.

01:51:07.520 And Iran doesn't want a nuclear weapon.

01:51:09.640 But Iran does not want to be defeated militarily by Israel, does not want to be bombed to hell

01:51:23.380 by Israel, and does not want to be sanctioned to death economically by the United States, which

01:51:30.140 the U.S. has been doing now for endless years.

01:51:35.000 So Iran has said for 10 years, 11 years, 12 years, unequivocally, we don't want a nuclear 0.70

01:51:45.620 weapon.

01:51:46.580 We want an agreement with you.

01:51:48.820 We want you to lift sanctions, and we want a no nuclear system, and with all verifications

01:51:58.420 and monitoring and safety as well.

01:52:02.320 Well, we want to have our nuclear power plants.

01:52:07.580 We want our own military.

01:52:09.180 We're not going to disarm in a region where Israel attacks every country in the region, 0.97

01:52:14.880 and by the way, where we have other enemies as well.

01:52:17.860 So we are not going to unilaterally disarm in our region.

01:52:23.120 But we do not want a nuclear weapon.

01:52:25.640 The truth is, that has been known for a dozen years in detail at the highest levels.

01:52:36.520 So what's the problem?

01:52:38.260 That seems like a pretty good basis for an agreement.

01:52:42.300 The problem, there is no problem in reaching a sound agreement.

01:52:47.320 And by the way, with the nuclear power plants, which are in dozens of countries, the IAEA, the

01:52:56.640 International Atomic Energy Agency, can and has and has successfully monitored and set up

01:53:04.800 absolutely rigorous monitoring.

01:53:09.800 And Iran is open to that and has said so repeatedly and has said it would work with the neighbors

01:53:16.060 on the fuel supply chains and all the rest.

01:53:19.760 There is no obstacle to this.

01:53:22.840 And I think we're close to an agreement with Iran, in fact, thanks to President Trump, because 0.51

01:53:31.200 Netanyahu says, no, we need to bomb the hell out of them.

01:53:37.860 We need to defeat them like we defeated Saddam and Assad and Gaddafi. 0.99

01:53:42.860 We need to take out this evil regime. 0.83

01:53:46.260 That's his line.

01:53:47.320 So it's not about nukes, what you're saying.

01:53:49.900 You're saying it's not about nukes.

01:53:51.060 It's about regime change.

01:53:51.780 I think, for sure.

01:53:53.480 And that's been true all along.

01:53:55.860 So why not just say that?

01:53:57.320 Why lie?

01:53:58.960 Why does Fox News tell me every single, not that I have a TV, but I hear Fox News is telling

01:54:03.820 everyone every day they're moments away from a nuclear, we cannot allow Iran to have a 1.00

01:54:08.120 nuclear weapon day after day after day.

01:54:10.440 Why not just say no?

01:54:11.380 I think, by the way, that's true.

01:54:12.400 And Iran would agree with that. 0.92

01:54:14.360 OK, yes, that's what we're saying.

01:54:16.780 But if you went on television right now, if you were back on your old perch on Morning Joe

01:54:21.280 and you said, actually, Iran doesn't want a nuclear weapon, they would accuse you immediately

01:54:26.320 of being an agent of Iran.

01:54:28.360 They might.

01:54:30.320 Because maybe someone would tell them in their little earpiece to say that because that's

01:54:35.000 how it works.

01:54:37.220 But you're saying that's true.

01:54:39.020 I mean, you're acting like that's like a non-controversial statement.

01:54:41.140 Iran doesn't want to bomb.

01:54:41.860 They've said they don't.

01:54:42.640 They just don't want to get attacked.

01:54:44.120 They have said for years, remove our sanctions, normalize relations, stop trying to overthrow

01:54:49.760 us.

01:54:50.600 Tell your bulldog Israel to stop threatening us with war. 0.98

01:54:57.580 And we can have perfectly normal relations and we don't want a nuclear weapon.

01:55:03.280 It's a much bigger headache than we want.

01:55:06.280 We don't want it.

01:55:07.500 That is not the story that any American news channel tells ever.

01:55:10.920 I'm shocked.

01:55:13.840 We live in the world of narratives.

01:55:16.680 You know, for many years, for many years, the Iranians were asking, how do we reach the

01:55:25.260 Biden White House?

01:55:26.320 How do we want to open up channels?

01:55:28.680 We want to negotiate.

01:55:29.820 Of course, they wouldn't talk to them.

01:55:31.580 It was we know the president now.

01:55:33.940 I mean, we knew then, but now it's confirmed.

01:55:36.160 The president wasn't in any shape to talk to anybody and the administration was the biggest

01:55:40.980 foreign policy failure of one one can imagine.

01:55:44.900 But the Iranians have been saying all along, we want to negotiate.

01:55:50.720 And as soon as President Trump was elected, at least I got inquiries.

01:55:56.620 Do you know anyone in the White House?

01:55:58.040 Do you know anyone in the president's team?

01:55:59.500 How can we make contact?

01:56:01.500 That's not the behavior you make if you're relentlessly trying to go to a nuclear bomb.

01:56:06.580 So what about the story that you hear endlessly that Iran is planning to nuke the United States,

01:56:12.700 that that's on their agenda?

01:56:15.180 Huh?

01:56:16.080 Yeah.

01:56:16.660 Right.

01:56:17.280 So you consider that like insane?

01:56:20.900 I consider that so bewildering if a grownup says that we need to have a long, hard talk about a lot of facts.

01:56:32.360 But that is simply the most absurd, imaginable idea.

01:56:40.160 Iran, by the way, is a civilization of, by usual count, 5,200 years.

01:56:49.160 Persia is the usual name given for Iran.

01:56:52.560 Oldest continuous in the world, I think.

01:56:53.760 Yes, it's arguably the longest continuous civilization, though many jump up and say,

01:57:00.200 no, we are, maybe the Georgians say it or the Egyptians say it,

01:57:03.140 so I won't get into arguments among my friends.

01:57:06.100 Except this is actually a great civilization that has lasted for 5,000 years.

01:57:14.880 They're not going to bring it to an end by bombing the United States and having Persia or Iran disappear from the world map literally physically by atom by atom by such an attack.

01:57:30.120 So it's not.

01:57:31.740 So why are we going through a list?

01:57:32.940 I mean, the attention, the full attention of huge parts of the U.S. government,

01:57:37.400 billions and billions and billions and trillions over the years of American tax dollars have gone to responding to this threat.

01:57:44.000 We have bases all around the region, all focused on Iran, which we maintain, including a huge one in Qatar, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

01:57:51.480 All of this effort by the United States focused on this Iranian threat that you claim doesn't exist.

01:57:56.880 Remember that Iran was, first of all, Iran was a democratic country in 1953.

01:58:06.600 The prime minister at the time named Mossadegh had this absolutely outlandish idea,

01:58:15.240 which was that the oil under their ground belonged to Iranians.

01:58:21.540 This was a very weird idea because the British knew it belonged to the British.

01:58:27.260 The Americans expected that it belonged to the Americans in the new age. 0.85

01:58:33.160 And so CIA and MI6 overthrew the Iranian democracy.

01:58:39.640 Then we installed a police state known as the Shah of Iran and SAVAK. 0.92

01:58:46.980 It's supposed intelligence and enforcement authority from 1953 to 1978 when the Shah was dying of cancer and he was a hated figure in Iran.

01:59:11.700 Jimmy Carter was talked into taking him into American, into the United States.

01:59:19.300 And that provoked the reaction and the taking of hostages by American hostages in Iran.

01:59:28.000 And the Iranian revolution was taken badly by the United States.

01:59:34.720 But Iran had been our fortress. 0.97

01:59:37.400 And why Iran? 0.65

01:59:38.600 Because this was part of our anti-Soviet effort. 0.84

01:59:43.000 This was part of our Cold War effort.

01:59:44.960 So Iran turned from a police state ally to America's foe and Israel's foe. 0.58

01:59:53.520 And by the way, in 1980, the United States and 1981 in particular, the United States armed Saddam Hussein massively to go kill Iranians. 0.86

02:00:08.480 So we told Iraq, go invade Iran. 0.93

02:00:13.000 And we supported an absolutely bloody disastrous war between Iraq and Iran.

02:00:21.260 We loved it.

02:00:21.880 It was the two scorpions fighting in the bottle, killing each other.

02:00:25.000 Fought in part by children.

02:00:26.420 Yeah, on American, on the American dime.

02:00:31.260 So our position towards Iran has been an aggression since 1953, actually.

02:00:41.440 Remember, the American deep state doesn't care about any other people at all.

02:00:48.180 Whatever happens to them, it doesn't care about the Ukrainian people. 1.00

02:00:52.100 It doesn't care about the people we're, quote, saving.

02:00:55.600 It cares about whatever fight it's in.

02:00:58.440 The fight might be against Russia, in which case the Ukrainians are used.

02:01:03.560 The fight might be for Israel, in which case some other jihadists are used, whatever.

02:01:11.220 Or the Kurds. 0.99

02:01:11.960 The Kurds or whoever is convenient at the time. 1.00

02:01:16.200 So Iran is kind of amazingly incurring this for 75 years and for the last dozen years saying, peace, come on, make peace. 0.95

02:01:35.200 Because President Trump is close to it right now.

02:01:38.820 Again, as in all the other cases we have been discussing, the deep state narrative is deep.

02:01:48.920 It's longstanding.

02:01:50.660 It's not shallow.

02:01:52.300 It's pretty much empty.

02:01:54.320 It's pretty much concocted.

02:01:56.460 But it's deep.

02:01:57.400 And so in order to overcome the deep state, in this case, it's the Israel or Zionist lobby because it's got a pretty complicated domestic heritage and base.

02:02:11.080 In order to overcome what has been 20 years of wars of choice in the Middle East and to stop them, it requires a lot of political capital and attention by President Trump.

02:02:23.920 In just like in Ukraine, he's absolutely on the right track, but he's getting attacked by everybody for being on the right track.

02:02:35.000 And he's trying to express America's real interest.

02:02:39.920 America cannot have a war with Iran, by the way.

02:02:45.440 It would lead to a regional war.

02:02:48.600 It would be costly, bloody, threatening.

02:02:53.220 And on January 17th of this year, Iran signed a security agreement with Russia.

02:03:00.640 So it would just open up another front of potential nuclear war.

02:03:06.080 President Trump's smart.

02:03:07.820 He's trying to avoid this.

02:03:10.000 Everyone's shouting at him, don't avoid it.

02:03:13.080 Go to war. 0.80

02:03:13.860 And for the president to prevail, he has all the authority he needs.

02:03:19.960 But this noise is incessant.

02:03:24.300 And the arrogance of a Lindsey Graham or the American Congress that thinks we can do whatever we want, wherever we want, and win whenever we want, when everything has been trillions of dollars of cost in one disaster after another, that arrogance actually continues until today.

02:03:44.740 It's not fear.

02:03:45.940 It's arrogance that's the fundamental driver.

02:03:48.320 In the face of, I mean, they haven't won a war in 80 years, so the U.S. military has not won a war in 80 years.

02:03:54.040 So I'm not attacking anyone.

02:03:55.340 I say that with sadness.

02:03:56.280 But I don't understand on what basis this optimism arises.

02:04:00.640 The optimism is misplaced, let us say, because these people have gotten us into one debacle after another.

02:04:09.300 And if, you know, when Lindsey, I'm going to pick on Lindsey Graham again because he's been the biggest warmonger in the Senate, if, when he speaks, if there were little logos on the screen, Iraq war supporter, this war supporter.

02:04:25.780 If people understood, okay, this guy's told you the wrong thing, five wars in a row, then, okay, then we let him speak and let everyone understand this guy gets it wrong every single time.

02:04:40.000 And that's true of most of these warmongers.

02:04:42.980 But I think, you know, just to say, this will continue, unfortunately, as long as we don't have peace a little bit further to the west of Iran. 0.78

02:04:58.120 And that is we need Israel and Palestine, two states living in peace and not this plan that is the clean break that is breaking us that goes back 30 years. 0.54

02:05:13.500 In other words, the harder work even than avoiding the war with Iran is the United States finally telling Israel, come on, there's a limit.

02:05:25.620 You reached it.

02:05:26.440 You exceeded it.

02:05:28.120 Those words need to be uttered.

02:05:30.440 And they haven't been uttered to this day.

02:05:32.400 53 million deaths of women and children and everyone else.

02:05:37.120 The United States needs to say, you crossed the line.

02:05:42.200 Say that to the prime minister of Israel.

02:05:44.920 Says that to the Israeli people and to the prime minister.

02:05:49.000 We no longer support this.

02:05:52.000 And that's hard in American politics.

02:05:54.720 Why?

02:05:54.980 It's hard, again, because the narrative for decades has been the opposite, because Americans don't understand how much we have paid for these terrible, absurd, deadly Israeli-led or provoked or desired wars.

02:06:19.800 And because there are deep beliefs and misunderstandings about the region that are just reproduced and replicated over time.

02:06:33.000 Again, just like Iran, I deal every day with diplomats from around the world.

02:06:44.280 It's my privilege and good luck that I speak with leaders all over the Middle East.

02:06:52.400 For example, in Egypt, in Saudi, in Jordan, in Turkey, in Iran, all over the Middle East.

02:07:07.260 And they have said to me for years and years, if there is a state of Palestine alongside the state of Israel, we normalize relations with Israel.

02:07:21.840 We, of course, we, of course, support the mutual security of the two states.

02:07:28.700 We do business.

02:07:29.900 We do everything.

02:07:31.700 And they have said that not only privately to me at length, explaining the situation, but publicly in what's called the Arab Peace Initiative, which goes back to 2002.

02:07:41.940 So it's been 23 years where the Arab states have been saying clearly, when Israel says there's no one to talk to, there's everyone to talk to.

02:07:54.720 Everyone wants peace, quiet, and economic development.

02:08:00.240 Believe it or not, they want to live their lives.

02:08:03.380 They want their children to grow up.

02:08:05.680 They actually want to have building, construction. 0.96

02:08:09.380 They're worried about their physical lives, their jobs, everything.

02:08:15.940 And they want peace.

02:08:17.380 And they know that there can't be economic development unless there's peace.

02:08:22.320 So if you ask why is it, there is no deep reason why there isn't two states living peacefully side by side.

02:08:32.400 The idea that Hamas, Hamas, this is a narrative. 0.68

02:08:37.000 This is a gimmick.

02:08:37.880 This is a lie.

02:08:39.380 Hamas would go the first day if the United States said, yes, we support a Palestinian state, but it's got to be peaceful.

02:08:49.960 It's got to be disarmed.

02:08:51.240 That's fine.

02:08:52.340 Everyone agrees with this.

02:08:53.860 No one disagrees with this.

02:08:55.300 But what we don't hear and get an explanation of, and this is what people need to understand, Netanyahu's completely uninterested in that, totally, totally uninterested in that.

02:09:08.820 He doesn't say, oh, we need to say, oh, we need to defeat Hamas, then there can be a Palestinian state.

02:09:15.240 No, of course not, because that's fundamentally not the idea.

02:09:19.700 Fundamentally, the idea is we defeat Hamas, we rule. 0.92

02:09:25.360 Of course we rule.

02:09:26.720 This is ours.

02:09:27.560 But the problem is, leaving aside who's right, who's wrong, philosophical and moral justifications for this or that policy, you have millions of people living there.

02:09:37.140 Well, but that's the point, exactly.

02:09:38.780 Right, so as a practical matter, what do you do with them?

02:09:42.960 I mean, even people get caught up in, like, 1947 and, you know, settlers from Eastern Europe that are mad about this.

02:09:49.980 You could ignore all history and just pretend the world started January 1st, 2025, and you've got millions of people living there.

02:09:58.820 What are you going to do with them?

02:09:59.920 I don't understand.

02:10:00.880 You are so correct.

02:10:03.180 There are 8 million Jews.

02:10:05.600 There are 8 million Palestinian Arabs.

02:10:07.440 So what's the plan?

02:10:08.240 I just wonder what the plan is.

02:10:10.080 The plan—

02:10:11.420 You can't get to the plan.

02:10:12.160 The second you ask, it's like, oh, you're working for Qatar.

02:10:14.140 The answer is simple.

02:10:15.680 The plan is something else.

02:10:17.540 The answer is simple.

02:10:19.540 Two places, one for the Palestinians, one for the Israelis. 0.88

02:10:23.660 That's simple.

02:10:24.740 And it's not even hard.

02:10:26.020 And I've had generals from Israel recently telling me, no, it's not even a security issue.

02:10:31.900 And here's how the borders go and all the rest.

02:10:35.140 The plan is how do you overcome the remaining U.S. complete intransigence on this?

02:10:46.640 That's the issue.

02:10:48.280 But why do we care?

02:10:49.140 It's in our interest.

02:10:50.140 So that's what's confusing.

02:10:51.260 Like, we don't have an inherent national interest there.

02:10:53.640 There's no oil there, for example.

02:10:55.320 It's not like it's an energy concern for us.

02:10:58.580 So why do we care?

02:11:00.220 And what are the options?

02:11:01.640 What do you do with 8 million people?

02:11:03.180 You can't send them somewhere?

02:11:05.420 Like, I don't—like, what are they thinking?

02:11:07.280 You said the magic word, and I hope that President Trump gets this because it's his core philosophy.

02:11:15.020 Peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians is America's interest.

02:11:23.520 Again, not even on moral grounds, just the most practical grounds.

02:11:28.160 Keep us out of nuclear war.

02:11:29.920 Keep us out of regional war.

02:11:32.960 Have economic development.

02:11:35.020 Build.

02:11:35.540 Have business.

02:11:36.560 Everything.

02:11:37.180 No more 9-11s. 0.99

02:11:38.240 Have normalizations.

02:11:39.280 Osama bin Laden said that he planned 9-11 in part because of what was happening between Israel and the Palestinians and America's support for Israel.

02:11:49.000 Now, no one wanted to hear that.

02:11:50.480 That's right.

02:11:50.900 But it's called you names if you said it.

02:11:52.120 Yeah.

02:11:52.420 I'm not on Osama bin Laden's side.

02:11:54.000 That's right.

02:11:54.360 Obviously.

02:11:55.280 I totally disapprove of Osama bin Laden.

02:11:58.420 But that's a fact.

02:11:59.380 So, like, why would we want to expose ourselves to more of that?

02:12:02.680 Like, why don't we try and get this fixed?

02:12:04.020 This is the key to every issue we're talking about.

02:12:07.620 What is America's national interest in the context of Ukraine and Russia?

02:12:15.320 Is it for Ukraine to be blowing up Russian strategic bombers or is it for Ukraine to be a neutral country without NATO?

02:12:25.820 It's the second.

02:12:27.560 What is America's national interest vis-a-vis Iran?

02:12:31.960 It is no nuclear weapons in Iran and peace, no war.

02:12:37.860 What is America's interest in Israel and Palestine?

02:12:42.620 It is 8 million Palestinians for Palestine and 8 million Israelis living in Israel in peace. 0.88

02:12:50.580 And please, if I could say it this way, shut up a little bit.

02:12:54.640 No more wars that we're dragged into. 0.89

02:12:57.420 You guys just live.

02:12:58.960 That's America's real interest.

02:13:01.160 So, if the president follows through on America's national interest, not on the grandiosity that we can do anything we want, anywhere we want, because we are the United States of America and our mission is to defeat Russia or our mission is to defeat Iran or our mission is greater Israel.

02:13:23.860 If we follow the American national interest, if we follow the American national interest, it's absolutely straightforward what to do.

02:13:31.900 It is no war with Iran and negotiated treaty.

02:13:35.000 It is two states, Israel and Palestine.

02:13:38.060 It is a neutral Ukraine.

02:13:40.360 President Trump has all of that close, close at hand.

02:13:45.720 But everyone requires his attention.

02:13:51.400 This is hard because every one of them confronts a narrative that's 30 years old or 50 years old, that is deeply entrenched, that is fundamentally based on the premise that America can do what it wants anywhere in the world because it's all powerful.

02:14:15.760 At the core of everything, at the core of everything, Tucker, is a kind of arrogance of power that has been proved to be wrong from Vietnam, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Iraq.

02:14:35.640 It's not that we're hopeless and helpless and I'm not defeatist in that way.

02:14:44.160 I'm saying that if you choose the wrong battles, you can't win those battles.

02:14:51.580 If you choose battles that are not in America's interest, you'll go away because they're not.

02:14:58.040 Afghanistan wasn't fundamentally in America's interest or Iraq wasn't fundamentally in America's interest or Ukraine wasn't fundamentally.

02:15:05.620 And by the way, that's also not isolationism, that's just being smart, prudent, normal, and also recognizing, don't be so afraid.

02:15:18.480 Our only risk in the United States, honestly, now we know it's not the UFOs.

02:15:24.920 That was a concocted thing of the Air Force.

02:15:28.340 Our only risk is a nuclear war. 0.54

02:15:32.380 Stay clear of a nuclear war.

02:15:34.260 Please stay clear of these ultimate confrontations.

02:15:38.420 Don't fight Russia to the end. 0.62

02:15:41.500 It's a great power.

02:15:42.820 You can live side by side with it.

02:15:44.820 Same with China.

02:15:46.320 Come on.

02:15:47.160 Just be normal and we can have secure, prosperous lives for all of us.

02:15:52.360 When you overstate your power, your power evaporates.

02:15:55.780 The U.S. is so much less powerful than it was before the invasion of Afghanistan.

02:16:00.220 We have much more risk objectively than we were before.

02:16:03.740 And anyone that measures risk, I often refer to this doomsday clock of the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, which says we're closer to nuclear Armageddon than ever before in human history.

02:16:14.960 This is crazy.

02:16:16.160 We should be as far away.

02:16:18.020 I was there, as I said, in the Kremlin in December 1991.

02:16:23.680 The doomsday clock was 17 minutes away from midnight because we have peace.

02:16:30.000 Now we're 89 seconds to midnight.

02:16:32.700 Are you kidding?

02:16:33.500 How did we squander this?

02:16:35.460 Because we did so many Israeli-provoked wars. 0.99

02:16:40.200 Because we had to expand NATO to Russia's border.

02:16:43.880 Blah, blah, blah.

02:16:44.880 None of this is for America's interest.

02:16:47.120 No.

02:16:47.440 And it's objectively the case.

02:16:49.660 Let me ask you one last question.

02:16:50.900 You said that most of the storylines, the narratives, are 30 years old.

02:16:55.060 And I think that's exactly right.

02:16:56.200 It does feel like it could be 1995 again.

02:17:00.320 But there is one new one, and that is that Qatar, Qatar, Q-A-T-A-R, very small Gulf state, wholly within Saudi, I think the largest natural gas field in the world, biggest American air base in the region,

02:17:17.180 that that country is like a powerful enemy of the United States and is controlling America's media, controlling America's higher education system, 0.73

02:17:27.040 and that most bad things and all bad opinions come from Qatar and Qatari propaganda.

02:17:33.780 Are you familiar with this argument?

02:17:37.320 Not quite, but I am familiar with Qatar.

02:17:40.280 Yeah.

02:17:40.660 So what do you assess Qatar's role in the United States?

02:17:46.440 Are they controlling our media, do you think?

02:17:48.720 I don't lose sleep over it.

02:17:51.520 To tell you the truth, I haven't heard it put exactly that way.

02:17:56.580 You've got to get on the internet more, Joe.

02:17:58.500 I know.

02:17:58.720 I've been going to Qatar for a while.

02:18:01.740 They gave the president a nice plane, and it's not a danger to the American people.

02:18:09.260 You know, if we were to calm down a little bit, we actually could have all the safety in the world we want.

02:18:17.460 But this is really, this is actually the truth.

02:18:22.180 If we drop our angst on big bad Russia, actually, we didn't have a chance to talk about it this time. 0.93

02:18:31.840 Maybe another time, big bad China, which is also not going to invade the United States, not going to threaten us, not going to go to war with us. 0.59

02:18:40.500 They got their, they're trying to deal with aging, and they've got their declining population and many other things.

02:18:47.020 Not that they're falling apart.

02:18:48.300 It's a very impressive civilization.

02:18:50.820 But they're not a threat to the United States, honestly.

02:18:54.960 And Iran is not a threat.

02:18:56.360 And now I'll add another country that's not a threat, Qatar. 0.52

02:18:59.140 And by the way, there are 193 UN member states, and I would say 192 of them are not threats to the United States if we just behave with some prudence and don't get ourselves edging towards the nuclear war.

02:19:18.880 Jeffrey Sachs, thank you very much.

02:19:21.060 Great to be with you.

02:19:21.940 Thanks for watching.

The Tucker Carlson Show - June 11, 2025

Jeffrey Sachs： Ukraine⧸Russia Dangerous New Escalation, & the Dark Forces Pushing for War With Iran

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