The Tucker Carlson Show - January 29, 2025


JFK Assassination Expert Reacts to Trump’s Effort to Declassify Files, and What You Should Expect


Episode Stats


Length

32 minutes

Words per minute

155.41335

Word count

5,116

Sentence count

337

Harmful content

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Trump has ordered the release of millions of pages of documents related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the subsequent cover-up by the CIA. What will it take to get these documents declassified? Will it be enough to make them public?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:00:14.840 Welcome to the Tucker Carlson Show.
00:00:30.560 We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else, and they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers.
00:00:37.740 We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly.
00:00:42.620 Check out all of our content at tuckercarlson.com.
00:00:46.180 Here's the episode.
00:00:47.280 You first wrote about the JFK assassination for the Washington Post in the spring of 1995.
00:00:54.500 So that's 30 years of serious reporting on one topic, which is admittedly a vast topic, but still one topic.
00:01:02.660 Yes. Yeah.
00:01:04.200 What's it like to see this announcement?
00:01:07.280 I mean, those of us who've been calling for the release of these records for more than a decade, this is a great and promising moment.
00:01:15.480 But there's still pitfalls ahead, and I want to emphasize that, you know, this is not something that can be done with the stroke of a pen.
00:01:22.860 The powers of these secret agencies are strong, and we actually kind of see their influence even on Trump's statement.
00:01:31.380 So it's important to know, you know, what we've learned in the recent past, kind of the context of these latest developments, and, you know, what is possible under this order.
00:01:42.260 But a lot is now possible.
00:01:44.080 So that's a great development.
00:01:45.540 Thank you for saying that, because it is complicated.
00:01:50.140 I mean, a president can come in and say, as this president just did, I want to see the documents, and I want the public to see the documents.
00:01:56.680 But there's a distance between that and seeing the documents.
00:01:59.520 So if you wouldn't mind walking us through what the process is for getting this material.
00:02:04.480 So the president's order, you know, orders a plan within 15 days from four top officials, two of whom are acting and two of whom are Trump appointees, to come up with a plan for declassification.
00:02:19.120 In the president's order, Section 3 of the president's order contains a loophole, which to me could be interpreted as saying the CIA director could overrule any decision that comes out of this declassification effort.
00:02:34.060 That's a pretty big loophole that needs to be plugged or, you know, disavowed, because the agencies cannot have final control over the release of this material, right?
00:02:44.360 They've been resisting full disclosure since the day President Kennedy died.
00:02:49.480 That's the day that the CIA's lies began.
00:02:53.020 CIA officials began lying about what they knew about Lee Harvey Oswald within hours of President Kennedy's murder.
00:02:59.100 And they've been obfuscating, lying, deceiving, covering up, evading ever since.
00:03:04.520 So that kind of bureaucratic behavior, it's not going to stop just because President Trump said something on a piece of paper.
00:03:11.620 They are going to continue to fight a rearguard effort to prevent full disclosure of CIA records related to President Kennedy's assassination.
00:03:19.900 So we need to be vigilant.
00:03:22.000 We need to identify the documents are important and set some benchmarks to show is this effort really obtaining the results?
00:03:30.100 Is it really going to be successful at obtaining full JFK disclosure?
00:03:35.940 So you've got the perspective on this question.
00:03:38.720 How many times has the Congress, for example, or previous administrations called for disclosure of these documents?
00:03:47.640 This is not the first time.
00:03:49.320 No, the 1992 JFK Records Act passed unanimously by Congress.
00:03:54.420 Think of that, right?
00:03:55.800 When's the last time Congress passed something unanimously?
00:03:58.540 That law said that all JFK records had to be made public within 25 years, except in the rarest of circumstances.
00:04:06.740 That was the language.
00:04:07.960 So 25 years after 1992, 2017, that deadline arrived.
00:04:13.700 It came to President Trump and he caved into the CIA's demands for continuing secrecy.
00:04:20.140 So that was a very clear expression of the will of the people and the will of Congress.
00:04:25.560 And they've just blown the deadline.
00:04:27.560 They don't really care to be seen.
00:04:30.600 They don't care that people see them violating the law around JFK records.
00:04:34.460 Yes, clearly they don't.
00:04:36.140 And, you know, they violated even more basic law when they apparently participated in the murder of a sitting president.
00:04:42.920 So, I mean, these are lawless.
00:04:44.740 These are lawless agencies, obviously.
00:04:46.760 But where are these documents?
00:04:48.540 Do you have any idea?
00:04:49.120 So, well, there's two places.
00:04:51.620 There's 3,600-plus documents that are held by the National Archives that contain redactions.
00:04:58.920 Those are in the possession.
00:05:00.640 Those documents should be very easy to review and release quickly if they're serious about declassification and full disclosure.
00:05:09.640 So then those records were identified by the JFK Assassination Review Board in the 1990s,
00:05:16.320 which did a great job of obtaining and declassifying a million pages of JFK records.
00:05:21.660 So we've had a huge advance in historical knowledge since the 1990s.
00:05:26.700 And what that showed us was the existence of other JFK records that the Review Board never knew about, often because the CIA deceived them.
00:05:37.100 So we need a capacity to get those records that are in the National Archives right now.
00:05:43.320 But we also need to go out and get the records that are known to exist that are not yet in that collection.
00:05:48.360 So there's two big bodies of records that are out there, and a serious declassification effort will get both of them.
00:05:55.320 And I'm assuming the second set that you refer to are at the CIA?
00:06:04.040 CIA and FBI, yes, and other agencies, too.
00:06:09.020 Will we know whether we've received the entire corpus or not?
00:06:12.240 You know, when we start seeing documents, it's pretty easy to establish some benchmarks about, you know, what are the most important records.
00:06:22.960 And, you know, we will see in both categories have those documents come into the record.
00:06:29.280 So if we monitor the process, we should be able to say, is this serious or not?
00:06:35.680 You know, I think that, you know, the president has ordered a plan in 15 days.
00:06:41.760 I don't think that means we're going to get documents in 15 days.
00:06:45.040 And so, you know, but if we don't get documents within 30 days of the plan, then you've got to start saying this thing has been taken, has gone off the rails.
00:06:57.120 Well, but they, I mean, it's kind of abrupt.
00:06:59.100 I mean, it's, you know, it's only been 62 years.
00:07:01.820 Maybe they haven't had time to kind of prepare everything.
00:07:04.140 Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:07:05.680 OK, what what's your guess as to why they're holding so tightly?
00:07:11.560 And I can just say, I'm sure you know this, but as of last month, there was pressure in Washington to appoint or not appoint certain people based on the likelihood they would push for declassification of these documents.
00:07:24.180 In other words, they're federal bureaucrats right now for whom withholding these documents is a high priority.
00:07:31.020 I just think that's amazing.
00:07:32.140 What do you think that is?
00:07:33.020 I think the only explanation is that the CIA has something to hide and they'd rather be seen as defying the law than releasing the information.
00:07:42.300 I mean, that tells you something right there.
00:07:45.460 And, you know, we can go into the specifics of, you know, some of the key documents that are out there that that are important to be to be produced soon.
00:07:56.240 And but until that happens, you know, we can't be sure that it's going to happen.
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00:09:28.620 That's Tucker, F-O-R, Hillsdale, dot com.
00:09:35.000 TUCKERHILLSDALE.COM
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00:10:15.680 I mean, not knowing much about the process, but just employing common sense, you'd think, well, you know, 62 years you've had time to scrub the stuff that's incriminating.
00:10:29.460 Are we confident that these documents still exist?
00:10:32.440 Yes.
00:10:33.020 I mean, the documents that I'm talking about in the National Archives collection, I mean, they're in the possession of National Archives today.
00:10:40.020 They could go get them this afternoon.
00:10:41.640 The documents that are not yet in the collection, those are known to exist and, I mean, known to exist, you know, as of recently.
00:10:51.020 So, you know, if they're not produced, if we find evidence they've been destroyed, then we have pretty good evidence that, you know, that the cover-up is continuing.
00:10:59.420 But these are documents that are known to exist.
00:11:02.200 This isn't a fishing expedition.
00:11:04.280 This is a search for JFK records that have not been put on the public record by the CIA and the FBI.
00:11:11.920 But whose existence has been verified.
00:11:13.540 So it's not like it's not like it's up to the current leadership of the CIA to define what the documents are.
00:11:19.820 We know what the documents are.
00:11:21.140 It's a matter of them handing them over.
00:11:24.460 And if they don't hand them over, it'll be because the new CIA director, John Ratcliffe, has said, I don't want to hand them over.
00:11:31.160 And we'll know that.
00:11:32.180 Yeah.
00:11:32.440 And, you know, it was interesting to me that in Ratcliffe's confirmation hearings, he was not asked about JFK files, which makes me think that it's not a priority of Tom Cotton and the Senate Intelligence Committee.
00:11:44.780 It seemed like they were staying away from the subject, you know, which, like you noted, had been central to the idea that Amaryllis Fox might take a job at the CIA to oversee this.
00:11:55.680 You know, so, you know, there's got to be a commitment from Ratcliffe to make sure that this happens.
00:12:01.720 And I don't think that he's ever said anything about JFK files.
00:12:05.060 You may know differently, but I've never seen anything.
00:12:07.240 So he has no position as far as I can tell.
00:12:10.320 No.
00:12:11.060 I mean, he is a, you know, he's a loyal Trump guy.
00:12:14.060 Yeah.
00:12:14.700 And Trump has been talking about this for years.
00:12:18.660 Trump is bitter that he was talked out of releasing those files by Mike Pompeo.
00:12:23.860 Right.
00:12:24.560 CIA, former CIA director under him.
00:12:26.620 He's mad about that.
00:12:27.420 He said that in public.
00:12:28.540 Yeah.
00:12:28.780 And so, you know, it's hard for me to believe that Ratcliffe would withhold, you know, especially something that we know exists.
00:12:36.720 I just don't see that happening.
00:12:38.320 So you're aware of the Amaryllis Fox Kennedy.
00:12:42.480 Yeah.
00:12:42.980 I mean, and you know, scenes.
00:12:44.440 So will you tell us what you know about that?
00:12:46.420 Well, it's just, you know, I know from the news reports that RFK Jr. floated the idea of having her go to CIA and kind of oversee the process to get to the bottom of the JFK assassination was the quote that I saw.
00:13:00.240 So, you know, you need to have a bureaucratic point person to ride herd on this because the agencies are going to be very reluctant.
00:13:07.600 So that's a good idea, you know, whether it's her.
00:13:11.040 I mean, a former CIA officer, that's somebody who would be qualified, who knows that building and would be able to do that.
00:13:17.160 Somebody else could do it as well.
00:13:19.640 But you are going to need a point person.
00:13:21.840 The way it's set up now, it looks like NSC advisor Mike Walls will probably be the point person along with the attorney general.
00:13:31.900 So as that takes shape, you know, that's a key thing is what's the real commitment to ride herd on this as opposed to just issue a piece of paper and then let the bureaucracy do what it does.
00:13:46.940 Right.
00:13:48.220 It seems like it's going to be kind of hard to get out of it.
00:13:52.000 Yes.
00:13:52.260 Because there are informed people like like and especially you paying attention.
00:13:57.760 Yeah.
00:13:57.940 Um, I'm a little less confident on the Martin Luther King assassination files.
00:14:03.800 And I think of of all of these crimes, there are three.
00:14:06.940 There's the murder of Bobby Kennedy, the murder of JFK, the murder of MLK.
00:14:10.220 I think that story is the official story is the least plausible.
00:14:15.400 I mean, it's actually ridiculous that he was murdered by a prison inmate acting alone, but some without a job.
00:14:21.800 But somehow that prison inmate winds up going to Canada, then the UK, then is heading to South Africa with two forged foreign passports.
00:14:29.940 And he did that all by himself.
00:14:31.420 Like, that's just I mean, come on.
00:14:32.920 Yeah.
00:14:33.380 And so clearly there was a conspiracy to murder Martin Luther King.
00:14:36.220 I mean, I don't think any normal person thinks otherwise.
00:14:39.680 And certainly knows the details.
00:14:41.540 So are we going to find like what do you think we're going to find there?
00:14:43.720 You know, I don't know those records as well.
00:14:48.060 But the fact that they're secret, I mean, you know, we don't need to argue about the conclusions.
00:14:53.880 The point is we need the records and then then we can have an informed debate.
00:14:58.640 But right now we have no informed debate, especially about MLK.
00:15:02.400 But even about JFK and RFK, we don't have all the records.
00:15:06.520 So, you know, it's the CIA is very good and its allies in the establishment media are very good at changing the subject and getting us to argue about things that are not really germane.
00:15:20.440 The point is the law is very clear.
00:15:22.680 The CIA has blown the deadline and this material should be made public.
00:15:26.580 All of it.
00:15:27.460 If it's trivial, so be it.
00:15:29.500 You know, I'm not saying I'm right about how I interpret these records.
00:15:33.400 Put it out there and you can decide if I'm right.
00:15:35.500 Right. That's right.
00:15:37.320 What are the chances that we get full disclosure in the next month or two or what seems like full disclosure and every media story says, see, there's nothing there?
00:15:48.340 If we get the documents that I'm talking about, that will not be a credible narrative.
00:15:54.100 And let me and let me cite a couple of examples, Tucker, because.
00:15:57.380 Thank you.
00:15:57.800 This isn't a fishing expedition.
00:16:00.240 OK, so in one of the key documents that's still redacted unbelievably.
00:16:05.220 In my view, is a memo that Arthur Schlesinger wrote to JFK after the Bay of Pigs.
00:16:11.180 Kennedy was very disillusioned with the CIA.
00:16:13.340 He felt they were trying to dictate policy to him.
00:16:16.560 And he talked about reorganizing the CIA in the words that are often quoted, breaking up the CIA and scattering it to the winds.
00:16:24.880 Right.
00:16:25.180 So this was actually a concrete expression of that impulse.
00:16:28.960 We need to do something about an agency that's out of control.
00:16:32.600 Arthur Schlesinger writes up his thoughts.
00:16:35.180 He's got a security clearance, does a very careful study of CIA operations.
00:16:38.880 In that memo to Kennedy, there is still almost an entire page redacted.
00:16:45.100 OK, so the CIA is censoring criticism of itself by the White House.
00:16:52.060 And we're not allowed to see that 61 years later.
00:16:55.160 So Schlesinger's memo, it's not about the events that happened in Dallas.
00:16:59.260 It's about the alienation of Kennedy and the CIA.
00:17:03.180 That's a that's a very basic test.
00:17:05.960 If we don't get that document, the whole thing's a joke.
00:17:09.060 OK, it's that simple.
00:17:11.580 But is it is it legal to criticize the CIA still?
00:17:15.260 Well, that's what that's what this document raises the question.
00:17:18.680 Right.
00:17:18.840 If somebody knows the contents of that of that censored page and came to me and said, Jeff, I'll tell you what's in there, you know, under the law right now, they would be taking a certain legal risk.
00:17:31.540 But, you know, that's a that's a fact.
00:17:33.840 And, you know, when a JFK whistleblower approached me a couple of years ago and I wrote about this on JFK Facts last year, you know, he described to me a secret CIA facility in northern Virginia where he had worked as a contractor.
00:17:48.080 And he said, there's a JFK archive in there.
00:17:51.560 He had seen it.
00:17:52.500 He had talked to the people, to the woman who ran it, who controlled access to it.
00:17:56.420 He saw what was on the on the shelves there.
00:17:59.900 So, you know, that guy, it was it was risky for him to talk to me.
00:18:06.180 And it took a long time for me to convince him to come forward.
00:18:09.440 And he only came forward after a couple of years when he realized nothing was happening.
00:18:14.580 You know, there was no prospect of the CIA coming clean.
00:18:19.340 So that's important.
00:18:20.960 I'll tell you something else that's good about President Trump's order.
00:18:24.620 I think it makes it easier for any whistleblowers to come forward.
00:18:29.140 And I'd like to say if there are people out there who have access to classified information, you know, consult your lawyer.
00:18:35.820 But I think President Trump's order effectively, well, it reduces their risk about talking about things that are classified because the president saying we want all of this out.
00:18:45.480 That carries some weight.
00:18:47.280 So that that it's that in itself is an important development.
00:18:51.220 Yeah, I mean, it's I mean, when I reported something about the contents of the JFK files two years ago and Mike Pompeo's lawyer called me the next day to threaten me.
00:19:01.460 Yeah, that was that was an amazing story.
00:19:03.900 And and it goes to show you that, you know, talking about this stuff, you can be threatened with legal action.
00:19:10.700 That's still possible, you know, so we that threat needs to be removed.
00:19:15.380 And I hope the president's order has done that, you know, and the people can feel that this is perfectly legitimate to talk about.
00:19:22.240 There are no real national security concerns in this material, except for the fact that the assassination of a president is a national security concern.
00:19:31.360 Right.
00:19:32.540 Well, sure.
00:19:33.380 But I mean, if if you think that the public's trust in the CIA is a national security imperative, in other words, if people doubt us, Americans will die.
00:19:43.200 I mean, I think that's what they tell themselves, you know, that that preserving myths about their agency are like, you know, like a legitimate goal of government.
00:19:54.140 Yeah.
00:19:54.680 And so, you know, crazy.
00:19:56.420 Yeah.
00:19:56.600 So another story, which I reported on JFK Facts last year, before President Kennedy was assassinated in November 1963, the CIA had Lee Harvey Oswald under surveillance for four years.
00:20:10.860 By November 21st, 1963, they had compiled 180 pages of material on Oswald, his personal life, his political beliefs, his contact with a KGB officer, his arrest.
00:20:23.600 They had all of that at the time Kennedy was leaving for Dallas.
00:20:28.400 CIA counterintelligence chief James Angleton knew that Oswald was in the Dallas area in the first week of November of 1963.
00:20:37.680 That pre-assassination Oswald file was not completely declassified until April 2023.
00:20:45.520 That's how sensitive this is, is.
00:20:47.800 And they're very good at keeping this stuff off the public record.
00:20:50.620 And, you know, now when you go to people in the mainstream media, they won't report on Oswald's pre-assassination file.
00:20:59.420 They'll say, oh, they were just covering their assets.
00:21:02.000 They make excuses for the CIA instead of saying, hey, you had 180 pages on the guy.
00:21:08.080 You know, was that extreme negligence, intentional negligence or actual complicity, you know?
00:21:13.720 And we don't, we don't know, but that file is, the pre-assassination Oswald file is one of the most significant things to come out in recent years, for sure.
00:21:23.580 So was that given over to the investigators of the Warren Commission?
00:21:27.200 No.
00:21:27.680 When the Warren Commission interviewed CIA Director John McCone and Deputy Director Richard Helms behind closed doors, only Warren Commission members there were Alan Dulles and Gerald Ford, and John Sherman Cooper was there for a little bit.
00:21:46.520 They lied.
00:22:16.520 It's their attitude. 0.96
00:22:17.300 It's, it's bland arrogance.
00:22:19.140 And we see it to this day.
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00:22:59.260 What do you suppose is still being classified from the investigation into Robert F.
00:23:29.200 Kennedy's death?
00:23:30.860 You know, I wrote a book about James Angleton, the counterintelligence chief who ran the Oswald, who held the Oswald file from 1959 to 1963.
00:23:42.160 Angleton told the Church Committee, kind of off the record, that he believed RFK had been killed by organized crime figures.
00:23:50.120 So there's the body of records from the L.A. Police Department.
00:23:56.560 The CIA had people in the LAPD who helped control the investigation of the assassination and exclude marginalized witnesses who didn't say what the government wanted said.
00:24:07.900 The RFK documents are a problem because they're not in one place, and it will take a little bit of effort to collect them.
00:24:18.640 And it's good that the president wrote in 45 days, not 15 days for those documents, because it's going to take a little more work.
00:24:25.220 That's a reasonable delay in light of, you know, getting, you know, getting, finding and getting and releasing those documents.
00:24:32.660 Hmm. Do you, how would you assess the likelihood that the murder of Bobby Kennedy was not what they told us it was?
00:24:43.200 A lone nutcase called Sirhan Sirhan shooting him with a .22 in the kitchen in the Ambassador Hotel.
00:24:48.860 You think there's more there?
00:24:50.580 Yeah, I mean, you have, you have the testimony of the coroner who was hyper aware that the JFK autopsy was a joke and a fraud.
00:25:00.940 And, and Dr. Noguchi said that Kennedy's head wound was a contact wound, that the gun had been close to Kennedy's head when the shot was fired.
00:25:11.360 Well, Sirhan Sirhan was never that close to RFK.
00:25:14.320 So that alone is kind of indisputable factual evidence of a deficiency at a minimum in the official story.
00:25:23.800 So also, I think, you know, in the long, and I'm not an expert on RFK's assassination, but when you see how CIA assassination operations worked and the kind of techniques that they used, you can't rule out that Sirhan was under some kind of, you know, mind control program.
00:25:42.480 I mean, they had a mind control program and it was designed to do things like this, commit an act and you have no memory of it.
00:25:49.440 So we know they were working on that technology.
00:25:52.320 Could it have been applied here?
00:25:53.920 That's why we need the records so that we can assess, is that a real possibility?
00:25:59.240 Sirhan Sirhan's in his 80s now, he's still in prison, he's still alive.
00:26:02.940 And the one part of his story that's never changed, and it seems credible to me, is that he has no memory of, of shooting Bobby Kennedy.
00:26:11.240 Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a striking detail.
00:26:15.420 Yeah, I would say, I mean, you maintain the same story for, you know, almost 60 years.
00:26:20.860 Yeah, I think it has a little bit more credibility.
00:26:23.940 Final question.
00:26:24.780 Thank you for taking this time.
00:26:25.580 Did, since you've been working on this for so long and you did come out of, you know, the most prominent of the mainstream media, the Washington Post, have you been slandered as a nutcase conspiracy theorist?
00:26:42.180 I always wondered, like, what do they do with you exactly?
00:26:44.320 Because you're not coming from the fringes, you're coming from the, right from the middle of the establishment.
00:26:48.740 I mean, you know.
00:26:49.760 Have you been attacked?
00:26:51.280 Yeah, I mean, the problem that they have is that I don't have a conspiracy theory, so the label of conspiracy theorist just doesn't apply.
00:26:58.500 And the other thing is, you know, nobody can deny the stuff that I'm talking about.
00:27:02.720 Let me mention another JFK document that's very important and I think will interest you.
00:27:07.540 One of the things that's withheld and is in the JFK collection right now is the testimony of James Angleton in 1975 to the Church Committee about the Israeli nuclear program.
00:27:20.500 This is a 113-page document, and it's heavily redacted to this day.
00:27:25.960 And the redactions clearly pertain to Israel.
00:27:29.840 Now, is this an assassination-related document?
00:27:32.300 Absolutely.
00:27:33.140 The Assassination Records Review Board said this is an assassination-related document.
00:27:37.660 It meets the statutory definition, okay?
00:27:41.060 If the president and this effort are serious, that testimony will be declassified because Angleton controlled the Oswald file on the one hand, and he was a contact with the Israelis on the other.
00:27:53.640 So it belongs in the public record.
00:27:56.460 That's another test of is this serious effort.
00:27:59.920 So let me ask you, why in the world would the Dimona Project, the Israeli nuclear program, which has never officially been admitted by anybody but Israel, what would that conceivably have to do with the assassination of JFK?
00:28:17.760 Well, it relates to what Angleton was doing in 1963, okay?
00:28:25.000 There were profound conflicts between Israel and the Kennedy White House over the nuclear program.
00:28:32.640 Kennedy was pressing for on-site inspections, which the Israelis resisted because on-site inspections would have realized that they had a bomb-making program. 0.93
00:28:41.860 So this was a real bone of contention between the Israeli government and the Kennedy administration in the summer of 1963 at a time when Angleton controlled the Oswald file.
00:28:53.020 So just the juxtaposition of those facts means that everything about it should be on the public record.
00:29:01.000 And Angleton, who is the counterintel chief at CIA, James Jesus Angleton, he – that's quite amazing.
00:29:12.140 Did he support – do you know his view of the Israeli nuclear program?
00:29:16.200 I mean, it's very hard to tell sometimes from this testimony given all the redactions.
00:29:23.120 But yeah, that's – you know, was he secretly supporting Israel against JFK?
00:29:27.600 That's one of the questions that needs to be answered by full disclosure.
00:29:32.860 So why would he be asked about that in a congressional hearing?
00:29:37.320 That's quite amazing.
00:29:38.080 Well, because in 1975, the CIA had been revealed to be running assassination programs, to be running a mind control program, to be spying on the anti-war movement, spying on Americans.
00:29:52.100 So, you know, he was hauled before and Congress, who was completely in the dark, had been duped or wanted to be duped.
00:30:00.000 You know, suddenly their eyes woke up and they had to explain to their constituents, hey, what have these guys been doing in our name?
00:30:06.480 And so Angleton was called in and this was all, you know, executive session testimony.
00:30:11.620 So he was grilled about lots of things, about domestic spying, about the Israeli nuclear program, about the JFK assassination.
00:30:19.620 Interestingly enough, he was not questioned about Oswald because even the church committee did not know the extent of the pre-assassination surveillance of Oswald.
00:30:28.580 That's only something we've learned since the 1990s.
00:30:31.240 It is interesting.
00:30:33.660 I mean, I have no idea what the truth is, of course, but it is interesting that one of the only major policy changes that Lyndon Johnson made in the year after the president's murder was, you know, on the Israeli nuclear program, which he accepted.
00:30:50.740 Yeah, basically he dropped the demand for on-site inspections.
00:30:55.660 He dropped the demand that APAC be classified as a domestic lobby.
00:31:01.620 And, you know, there was really no accountability after that.
00:31:05.360 And the story only emerged, you know, 10 years later when the church committee started pressing Angleton for some explanations.
00:31:12.720 So I had no idea until you just told me that that was actually a feature of those hearings.
00:31:19.180 And so, of course, I mean, the public has – the American public has an absolute right to know what's in that exchange 50 years later.
00:31:26.640 Yeah, and, you know, and this is a tough call for the president because he's going to get very strong pushback from his national security apparatus supported by the CIA, supported by Israeli interests to say, no, you can't talk about that.
00:31:44.000 That's not permitted.
00:31:45.100 You know, you can't – don't do that.
00:31:46.740 Yeah, it's just – it's frustrating as an American citizen.
00:31:51.480 I don't have any kind of real agenda here other than it's, you know, my country.
00:31:56.120 I'm a shareholder in America, as are you.
00:31:58.640 And I think we have an absolute moral right and a legal right to know this 50 years later.
00:32:05.900 So –
00:32:06.180 Yeah.
00:32:07.200 Well, I really appreciate you're taking all this time, Jefferson Morley.
00:32:10.840 And I hope you don't mind if we check in with you, you know, to see if the promise is fulfilled.
00:32:16.080 Like I say, there's some very clear benchmarks to figure out is this working or not.
00:32:21.560 And, you know, are people holding up the process and obstructing the president's wishes or are they, you know, are they really going along?
00:32:29.740 And so the proof is in the pudding.
00:32:31.920 You know, the president's sentiment is great.
00:32:34.400 It's great that a president has committed to this.
00:32:36.440 It's amazing that no president has committed in this way before but will take it.
00:32:41.200 I'm not a supporter of President Trump.
00:32:44.140 But on this issue, he's absolutely right.
00:32:46.720 And we need to follow through on what he said.
00:32:50.020 Amazing.
00:32:50.880 Thank you very much.
00:32:52.180 Thank you, Tucker.
00:32:53.020 Let's talk again.
00:32:54.600 Thank you.