The Tucker Carlson Show - Kristen Breitweiser： 9-11 Cover-Ups, Building 7, and the Billion-Dollar Scam to Steal From Victims

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00:00:30.460 Kristen Breitweiser, thank you.

00:00:31.900 I'm so glad to meet you.

00:00:33.100 I have watched you on and off through the years.

00:00:35.400 And even when I bought every part of the official story, like the little Washington robot that I was, unknowingly.

00:00:44.540 Even then, I admired your doggedness and your intelligence, rigorous mode of thinking, and your bravery for not letting it go.

00:00:53.620 So you haven't let it go.

00:00:54.700 You've been on this for almost 25 years.

00:00:56.140 Are you more or less satisfied that you understand what actually happened on 9-11?

00:01:00.880 No, I mean, I think 25 years out, there's absolutely no complete understanding of what really happened.

00:01:07.820 I think that's unconscionable.

00:01:10.060 We live in the United States of America.

00:01:11.980 And to think that 3,000 people were massacred in broad daylight in lower Manhattan, and that there's not been a full accounting that is credible.

00:01:23.240 There's not been the ability for the widows and kids to avail themselves of the judicial system, of the legal system.

00:01:30.760 I just think it's a stain on the country.

00:01:35.520 I'm someone that believes that we are a nation based upon the rule of law.

00:01:39.740 Yeah.

00:01:40.040 And the reality is this nation's worst terrorist attack, the families left behind, have never been given the opportunity to use the rule of law to give us a sense of accountability and justice for the murder of our loved ones.

00:01:58.260 Or even a coherent story.

00:02:20.660 I mean, that's what I'm really struck by is that 25 years on, it's less obvious what that was.

00:02:26.860 That is weird.

00:02:29.100 Why?

00:02:30.240 I mean, I think initially in the beginning, everyone was really scared.

00:02:33.440 Yes.

00:02:33.780 I think that first there was fear.

00:02:36.940 And I think that that was ginned up sort of by the Bush administration.

00:02:41.440 And then once the...

00:02:42.500 No question about that.

00:02:44.080 Yes, I can speak to that firsthand.

00:02:46.320 And I too was really scared.

00:02:48.080 I mean, I think we not only had the attacks, my husband was killed.

00:02:51.540 I was left alone.

00:02:52.620 Um, we lived in New Jersey, right across the water from where the attacks took place.

00:02:57.340 We could smell the air, um, which was horrible.

00:03:01.100 Um, and then we had the anthrax attacks and, um, that happened in near, you know, in New Jersey and near Princeton.

00:03:07.700 Um, and so it was a really scary time.

00:03:10.920 Um, and then subsequent to that, when things started to maybe subside, where people sort of regained their, um, sense of reality, um, we had the queue up to the war in Iraq.

00:03:22.220 And anyone who questioned anything about the attacks and how they could have happened and who could be behind them, you were silenced because we were a nation at war and it was unpatriotic, um, to raise any questions, to, to question anything and to demand answers, certainly not allowed.

00:03:40.580 Um, and so that sort of took, I think, quite a bit of years.

00:03:44.580 Um, and now, believe it or not, I think for many of us, it's 25 years moving into the 25th year and I do not think that we've been told the truth.

00:03:53.780 I think as hard as we fought for a commission to try to learn the lessons, to try to understand better why and how the attacks happened, um, I think that commission was a whitewash.

00:04:05.640 I think, um, it told a story, not the truth.

00:04:09.540 And there's a difference between a story and the truth.

00:04:13.080 And I think we're owed the truth as to what happened that day and why the country was attacked and why we did nothing in a defensive posture to even mitigate the damage on the day of 9-11.

00:04:24.280 It's bad enough when you look at the facts leading up to the day of 9-11 and you see the many instances of where things were sort of, um, overlooked, facilitated in some situations.

00:04:36.540 Um, but the day of 9-11 as well, there were failures, systemic failures that, um, cost lives.

00:04:45.020 And so for me, initially in the beginning, I was like, you know what, like we need to do better.

00:04:49.240 The country needs to learn lessons, um, so that more lives could be saved if and when another terrorist attack happened.

00:04:56.360 And for whatever reason, uh, President Bush wasn't interested in doing that, but he was interested in the war in Iraq.

00:05:03.640 Um, and to me, 25 years looking back, 24 years looking back, I do wonder if the attacks, um, were to serve as the premise to allow for preemptive war.

00:05:14.960 I think that when you do examine what had happened in the government since then, um, it certainly laid the groundwork for preemptive war.

00:05:23.780 I'm not a person who supports war.

00:05:25.900 I think that, um, as someone who lost a loved one, I know the devastation war brings to a home and a family.

00:05:32.920 And it makes me sick to think that no one was really held accountable for the war in Iraq, for the hundreds of thousands of lives, for the tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers.

00:05:43.620 Um, and it's, I'm just confounded with the fact that the American public never demanded that.

00:05:51.120 And that for all intents and purposes, they got away with 9-11 and they got away with the war in Iraq.

00:05:56.980 I agree with every word that you just said and thank, thank you for saying them because they're true.

00:06:01.240 The one part where I would ask you to clarify, clearly 9-11 was used as a pretext, as an excuse for the war in Iraq, was used to justify it on, you know, famously false grounds.

00:06:14.280 But that's a very different thing from 9-11 was staged or allowed to happen in order to justify the war in Iraq.

00:06:22.360 Do you think that's possible?

00:06:23.980 I mean, I think, um, there's certainly, uh, theories out there, but I think when you look at the facts,

00:06:31.240 it's, it's, it would be certainly more comforting for, uh, the government to come forward and prove that that's not the case, right?

00:06:40.160 Like, it's uncomfortable as an American citizen to think that members of our intelligence apparatus, our intelligence community stood down,

00:06:49.580 greased the wheels, facilitated different, um, fact scenarios that enabled the attacks that may or may not have already been underway.

00:06:58.220 Um, and so there's a story out there that, that happened, that, you know, the CIA might have allowed certain, um, things to happen and to move forward because they were letting the line out to try to learn more about Al-Qaeda or terrorist groups, um, to learn more to get the big fish, quote unquote.

00:07:19.120 Right. Um, you know, I think that that's an interesting, nice way to look at things, certainly a less diabolical way.

00:07:28.360 Um, but there's a rule supposedly in the intel community that when you have, um, actionable intelligence, you're supposed to roll up the operation.

00:07:37.080 And so one of the biggest questions that I have, uh, centers on the Yemen switchboard, the Al-Hatta house switchboard, um, the CIA apparently learned about that in, I think, 96.

00:07:49.600 Um, they officially learned about it in 98 through the embassy bombing.

00:07:53.400 And of course my question would be, if the CIA is monitoring the Al-Hatta switchboard, all of the communications that Bin Laden is sending out to his operatives around the world to carry out attacks, um, when the 98 embassy bombing happened, why didn't they go in and shut down the Al-Hatta switchboard?

00:08:11.660 They didn't. They, I guess, wanted to leave the line out and continue to learn more information.

00:08:16.460 And they didn't want to tip off Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden that they had ears on him and his operations.

00:08:22.220 Okay. So the embassy bombing happens, kind of not great. Um, but then the USS Cole happens.

00:08:28.180 In, um, 2000, 17 sailors were killed. Again, that information flew through the Al-Hatta switchboard.

00:08:35.000 And the CIA still at that point doesn't go in and shut it down and stop it.

00:08:39.340 I believe that if the Al-Hatta switchboard was shut down, it would have, at the very least, delayed the 9-11 attacks.

00:08:46.840 And perhaps my husband would be alive today.

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00:11:44.460 So the question is, why wasn't it?

00:11:46.060 And I think the explanation that people sympathetic to the CIA would give is that it was just too great having a window into their private communications.

00:11:56.760 And like, why would you shut that down?

00:11:58.220 Well, because first of all, the embassy bombing happened and I know it was only, you know, like 13 Americans or something like that.

00:12:06.620 And mostly it happened in East Africa.

00:12:09.300 So most of the casualties were African.

00:12:11.760 And maybe they thought like, yeah, you're right.

00:12:13.660 The cost benefit analysis, like we'll just, you know, we lost 13 military, whatever.

00:12:17.660 But then the coal happens, that's 17 sailors.

00:12:21.860 Each one of those lives means everything in the world to their family.

00:12:25.480 That's right.

00:12:26.180 And then 9-11 happens, 3,000 people are killed.

00:12:30.420 At some point, you need to hold the CIA accountable.

00:12:33.080 And instead of holding the CIA accountable, people like Kofor Black, George Tenet, we had George Tenet getting a Medal of Freedom.

00:12:42.920 But more disturbing to me was that you took the same director of the CIA that had so utterly failed before 9-11, utterly failed with the USS Cole.

00:12:52.380 And you relied on him to give you intelligence for the WMD in Iraq. 0.70

00:12:59.180 And somehow you thought it was going to be credible and worthwhile.

00:13:03.320 It's inconceivable to me why President Bush would have done that, right?

00:13:07.320 But he did.

00:13:08.560 And we relied on it.

00:13:09.700 And it turned out to be a lie.

00:13:11.920 Okay.

00:13:12.200 And so what you see is this systemic, long-term carrying out of policy by American leaders, whether it's a president, a vice president, whether it's members of Congress, the intel committees, that are sort of looking past these failures of the intel community.

00:13:31.840 And again, it's not just the CIA.

00:13:33.600 The FBI's got plenty to explain with regard to the 9-11 attacks.

00:13:38.600 And they're never held accountable.

00:13:40.120 They sort of act with impunity and people make cool movies about them and everyone thinks that, you know, they're above the law.

00:13:47.960 The reality is, is that 3,000 Americans were killed on U.S. soil and the CIA and FBI 100% could have and should have prevented it.

00:13:58.340 The NSA, who does all the eavesdropping around the world, the wiretapping, they 100% had enough information to stop the attacks.

00:14:07.220 And for whatever reason, the attacks weren't stopped.

00:14:10.500 So, you know, naturally speaking, when something happens, a reasonable person is like, well, who benefited, right?

00:14:17.980 Like who benefited from not stopping this, from not preventing this murder of 3,000 people?

00:14:23.840 And maybe in the early days, it was kind of hard to sort of decipher that.

00:14:28.680 I think now, 24 years out, it's not that hard to figure out who benefited.

00:14:33.820 I know certainly who didn't benefit.

00:14:35.880 But I think that that's something that the American public needs to start considering and start wondering why we have a government that's not willing to hold people that are responsible for this nation's worst terrorist attack accountable for their failures.

00:14:55.580 And for their, you know, in some ways, negligence, I believe, criminal negligence and not stopping the attacks.

00:15:05.320 What's interesting is that what you said is identical, as far as I know, to what an awful lot of people who are involved in 9-11 think now.

00:15:13.840 You know, government officials who are, at whatever level, were around the events, were making decisions based on the events, you know, who are right there.

00:15:23.320 They all kind of think what, as far as I know, having asked a lot, because we made this documentary series that you were nice enough to participate in, the view you just expressed is like very common.

00:15:33.760 You're not some lone wacko on the internet at all.

00:15:36.240 And you've been deeply involved in this for a quarter century.

00:15:39.120 But all these other people have reached the same conclusion.

00:15:42.040 So why is no one saying this out loud?

00:15:45.440 I mean, I think that there's an institutional block on saying it out loud.

00:15:49.840 I think it's exceedingly uncomfortable to think that, you know, there's blood on the hands of the United States government and its intelligence community.

00:15:58.380 And I think that, you know, there's a long game here where the more time that passes, the less and less interested the American public is, right?

00:16:07.020 And not just the U.S. government, by the way.

00:16:08.860 I mean, I don't know your views on this, but I can, I don't know the answer.

00:16:12.540 I would have put it in the doc series if we'd found out.

00:16:14.920 But I just know for a fact that a lot of non-crazy, highly informed people think that the U.S. government, parts of the CIA specifically, which saw its role expand, its funding expand, it won.

00:16:27.980 And also, you know, an allied government also got a lot out of this.

00:16:32.760 Like, that's what they think.

00:16:34.080 Why will no one say that?

00:16:35.860 Yeah, I mean, I think it's peculiar.

00:16:37.400 I think that for me personally, my initial focus was on the U.S. government failures.

00:16:43.160 I was very interested in what the U.S. government knew, why the attacks weren't prevented.

00:16:47.520 And, you know, that was my original focus.

00:16:51.420 And then certainly, we were sort of corralled into considering the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

00:16:57.420 That happened through, you know, a confluence of things.

00:17:00.480 The Joint Inquiry of Congress did an investigation.

00:17:02.700 They left 28 pages blank, blacked out, redacted.

00:17:05.860 And, you know, the Whisper campaign began that it was the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia that had a strong hand in the attacks.

00:17:12.120 They logistically and financially supported the hijackers.

00:17:15.100 And, you know, undoubtedly, there's information there that could support that scenario.

00:17:20.620 There's also historic facts that show that the U.S. intelligence community and the Saudis work together.

00:17:27.540 You know, speaking here about, you know, Iran-Contra, speaking here as well about the years in Afghanistan with the Mujahideen.

00:17:37.460 But then as years and years go by, you start to consider about other foreign allies that might have played a role.

00:17:43.900 And what I think is most curious is the fact that we not only don't call for an examination, a real examination of our own intelligence community, the CIA, the NSA, the FBI, DIA, defense intelligence.

00:18:00.060 There's been no clarion call for that.

00:18:02.800 There has been somewhat of a drill and focus on the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

00:18:07.120 And yet there's been nothing about, you know, the other ally in the region, which is Israel.

00:18:12.900 And I think that that's curious.

00:18:15.700 I think that there are facts and circumstances that would warrant asking questions and asking what Israel knew about the hijackers time in the United States for the 18 months before 9-11.

00:18:31.840 And I think that there is, you know, some FBI 302s that talk about alleged Mossad agents, you know, filming near Ground Zero.

00:18:40.660 There were a series of art students sort of shadowing the hijackers for the year before 9-11, you know, and I don't understand why that information isn't just offered up.

00:18:51.540 Like if no one did anything wrong, which is what everyone says, then why is that information not offered to the American public?

00:18:59.420 In fact, to the world, to just say, here's everything we did, here's what we knew, and here's why we missed it.

00:19:05.400 But instead of that, what you have is like pretty much a cover-up.

00:19:08.720 And everything is shrouded in secrecy.

00:19:10.920 Everything is overclassified.

00:19:12.600 And to me, that makes things look kind of suspicious.

00:19:17.440 And so that's what I would hope.

00:19:18.760 I would hope that at this point, we should declassify everything.

00:19:22.680 And when I say everything, I mean Richard Clarke did a look back.

00:19:27.960 President Bush, like I think two days after 9-11, told Dick Clarke, who was head of counterterrorism, the counterterrorism czar,

00:19:35.180 go back and look three months, pulse the files, find out what we knew about this impending attack.

00:19:42.660 Clarke did that, and then Bush said, you know what, go 18 months.

00:19:46.180 Now, what's curious about that is when you go 18 months from 9-11, you get to the millennium, 2000, right?

00:19:51.400 And that is the time period where not only the two hijackers that are always talked about,

00:19:58.080 you know, Khalid Midar and Nawaf Asmi, who came into the United States, the CIA knew that they were coming here.

00:20:06.020 They should have informed the FBI because the FBI does domestic surveillance of terrorists, but the CIA didn't.

00:20:12.860 The CIA withheld that information purposely.

00:20:15.400 They knew that two known identified Al-Qaeda operatives were coming into the United States.

00:20:23.160 They purposely did not tell the FBI.

00:20:25.520 Those two hijackers lived here for 18 months, planned, met up with the other hijackers, ultimately carried out the 9-11 attacks.

00:20:32.620 In fact, those two hijackers were the ones that allegedly flew the plane into the Pentagon.

00:20:36.380 Having said that, so we have Richard Clarke's look back, back all the way to the millennium 2000.

00:20:44.020 In addition to the two hijackers that came into the country at that point, we also had the arrest of Ahmad Rassam.

00:20:49.960 He was picked up over the border coming into Seattle.

00:20:53.480 Rassam was connected to the Al-Qaeda cell that carried out 9-11.

00:20:58.200 So that happens in December of 2000.

00:21:01.580 This is when Clinton is ending up his presidency.

00:21:06.500 Actually, I'm sorry, December 1999.

00:21:10.160 Clinton is in there full-time.

00:21:12.480 Berger is the national security advisor.

00:21:15.440 Susan Rice is in there.

00:21:17.280 They nabbed this guy, a terrorist coming across who's on his way to LAX to blow up LAX, okay?

00:21:23.100 He gets caught.

00:21:23.840 But January 15th, these two hijackers come in that the CIA knows about into LA, LAX.

00:21:32.300 Like literally two weeks after Rassam was planning on blowing up LAX.

00:21:36.520 And they're all connected back to the camps in Afghanistan.

00:21:39.600 Yes.

00:21:40.100 But again, the CIA doesn't do anything.

00:21:42.480 And apparently, according to the official story, the CIA knows these two guys are coming here,

00:21:46.360 the two hijackers, and just forgets about them.

00:21:49.380 Doesn't do anything, okay?

00:21:50.780 What I think happened is I think that the Clinton administration was like, this is not good.

00:21:55.220 We have these two guys coming in.

00:21:56.920 We need to do something.

00:21:58.240 Let's farm it out.

00:21:59.600 We can't trust the FBI.

00:22:01.620 Let's give it to some foreign intelligence to keep an eye on these guys and see what they're up to.

00:22:06.520 Now, if that happened, what we do then is we find out that the USS Cole bomb goes off in October of 2000.

00:22:15.960 So that's now nine months, 10 months after these guys come in.

00:22:20.640 The CIA supposedly lost track of them, but they go and they carry out the coal bombing overseas, okay? 0.86

00:22:26.300 At that point, if the Clinton administration did put together this op, like, let's try to recruit these hijackers.

00:22:32.200 Let's let the line out.

00:22:33.280 Let's see what we can learn.

00:22:34.820 They're listening into the Ahata switchboard.

00:22:36.980 At that point, 17 sailors die.

00:22:39.960 You need to stop what you're doing and you need to roll up the operation.

00:22:43.880 You need to end it.

00:22:45.180 And yet that didn't happen.

00:22:46.740 So when President Bush, two days after 9-11, looks at his terrorism czar and says, I want you to do a look back.

00:22:54.960 I want you to get everything out of the files that were connected to this.

00:22:57.980 Do you think Richard Clark goes back to December of 1999 when they arrested Rassam, these two hijackers are coming into the country, he, Clinton, Berger, Tennant, are sitting in a room and they're like, what do we do?

00:23:11.100 What should we do with this?

00:23:12.520 Do you think that that was in that review that Bush asked Dick Clark to do two days after 9-11?

00:23:18.960 I don't know.

00:23:20.280 Neither do I.

00:23:21.100 But don't you think that the American public should know what Dick Clark found?

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00:25:30.320 So that's never been released.

00:25:34.980 It's never been released.

00:25:36.500 And the other report-

00:25:37.300 On what grounds?

00:25:38.860 They just don't release it.

00:25:40.820 And Clark did another report.

00:25:42.680 Well, I'll tell you why the second report can't get released.

00:25:45.600 The second report that he did was the After Action Millennium Report.

00:25:49.060 And that was they caught Rassam at the border.

00:25:50.880 And they, you know, they have the two hijackers coming in to LAX, right?

00:25:56.660 Same airport that Rassam was going to blow up.

00:25:59.000 And Richard Clark, terrorism czar, Clinton administration, draws up the Millennium After Action Report.

00:26:07.960 That report is reportedly what Sandy Berger, former Clinton National Security Advisor, stole out of the National Archives.

00:26:16.640 Stuffed in his socks, permanently destroyed it.

00:26:19.160 But what would have been so important that Sandy Berger, who was, I guess, a fairly reputable, former executive branch official-

00:26:29.180 National Security Advisor, yeah.

00:26:30.480 Go to the National Archives and steal, like, I think, seven sets of the Millennium After Action Report.

00:26:36.560 Like, what could have been in there?

00:26:37.700 That, like, he would have gone and done that.

00:26:40.000 Meanwhile, we don't-

00:26:40.940 It destroyed Sandy Berger's reputation.

00:26:42.940 Did it, though?

00:26:43.460 Because he got community service.

00:26:45.340 He did.

00:26:45.820 No, you're absolutely right.

00:26:46.540 I mean, like, we have other people that, like, leak to newspapers and they're in jail, right?

00:26:50.900 I mean-

00:26:51.360 So what do you think was in that?

00:26:53.160 I think it was the operation to try to recruit the very hijackers that ultimately carried out 9-11.

00:26:58.800 And I think that that's what they were covering up.

00:27:01.100 And what's interesting to me is that Berger got, you know, pinched during the Bush administration.

00:27:08.720 It was actually during the commission, the 9-11 commission.

00:27:11.180 And Berger said that he was going to look at the documents to refresh his memory.

00:27:15.980 What's really interesting is that the Bush administration, who was highly political and,

00:27:20.740 you know, run by Karl Rove, the strategist, never really caused a ruckus about it.

00:27:26.120 Like, they just sort of, like, looked past it and, like, let Sandy go do his community service.

00:27:30.200 And to me, that meant that whatever he took must have protected both the Clinton administration and the Bush administration because the silence and the absolute, you know, vacuum of Karl Rove going after Sandy Berger during, you know, a midterm election year kind of, like, to me, speaks to what he must have taken and whose mess he was really cleaning up.

00:27:53.400 So those are two documents that I think need to be released to the American public to shed some light on what could have been done to prevent the attacks.

00:28:01.800 Richard Clark's look back two days after 9-11 that President Bush ordered and the Millennium After Action report.

00:28:08.200 Then we've got all of the NSA files.

00:28:11.240 Now, the NSA had been listening to the El Hada switchboard from, like, 96 on.

00:28:15.500 So that's a wealth of information, not only about 9-11, about the embassy bombings in East Africa, about the U.S.'s coal bombing.

00:28:24.400 I think that those files that have never been investigated, never been examined fully, Phil Zelikow, the staff director of the 9-11 Commission, just didn't really see the need for it.

00:28:35.380 Those should all be fully released.

00:28:37.260 I think the inspector general's report for the FBI, failing to share information, should be fully released to the public, no redactions.

00:28:47.300 I think the CIA inspector general report.

00:28:50.140 I think the NSA's, I don't think they have an inspector general.

00:28:54.840 I think Treasury's FinCEN.

00:28:56.160 They don't even bother.

00:28:57.120 They don't have to.

00:28:57.760 I think those types of IG reports need to come out, the classified version.

00:29:04.180 It's now 25 years later.

00:29:05.760 There's no sources and methods.

00:29:07.720 There's no need to protect national security.

00:29:09.920 There's no Moussaoui trial.

00:29:11.420 Those are all the things that we were always told.

00:29:12.980 We can't tell you this information because it'll hurt the Moussaoui trial or its sources and methods.

00:29:18.080 I've seen that a lot.

00:29:18.680 It'll hurt the trial.

00:29:19.580 Right.

00:29:19.980 And I think that all of those things need to come out and be released.

00:29:23.740 I think the 28 pages, the classified and unclassified versions without redactions need to come out.

00:29:30.100 And I think the 9-11 Commission source files need to be fully available to the American public,

00:29:39.100 ideally released to some sort of like Doge-like staff who could digitize it and put in like some sort of, you know,

00:29:49.100 like database searchable system so that the American public can actually search those files.

00:29:56.140 The problem with the 9-11 Commission source documents is that they're almost impossible to look through.

00:30:02.360 They're all at the National Archives.

00:30:04.520 What is digital is highly redacted and they're impossible to find.

00:30:09.760 There's no finding aid that makes any sense.

00:30:12.080 And I think that's on purpose.

00:30:13.260 But those are the types of things that I think 25 years out, like, why aren't we getting them?

00:30:18.060 And why isn't President Trump demanding their release?

00:30:20.400 I don't understand.

00:30:21.760 Except, of course, I do understand, which is that there's something awful at the heart of this.

00:30:26.700 I mean, that's just so clearly true.

00:30:27.960 We know that from the behavior of the people who are keeping the secret.

00:30:30.640 So, in the decades that you've been dealing with U.S. government officials on the question of 9-11,

00:30:38.760 have you ever gotten any indication from any of them, you know, off the record,

00:30:43.640 that this is not what it looks like?

00:30:46.880 Have you ever talked to anyone who works for the U.S. government

00:30:49.780 who seems to understand that there's a big lie at the heart of this?

00:30:54.940 I mean, I think that it's the biggest open secret in Washington, D.C.

00:31:00.200 Oh, is that true?

00:31:01.040 I feel like in many ways, like a lot of members of Congress know.

00:31:04.200 I feel like certainly the intel committees know.

00:31:06.900 And that kind of blows my mind because I feel like...

00:31:09.580 And you're sure of that?

00:31:11.220 I mean, I'm not sure, but obviously they all have clearances.

00:31:13.780 They have access to the files.

00:31:16.080 You know, anyone could have gone in and read the 28 pages, the secret 28 pages.

00:31:20.680 If you're a member of Congress, you have clearance, you go into a SCIF, you're allowed to read that.

00:31:24.560 I don't know why every member of Congress didn't go and do that.

00:31:27.600 Frankly, if I was a member of Congress, I would have went and recited them on the congressional

00:31:31.620 floor for the American public to hear.

00:31:33.160 Go ahead and arrest me.

00:31:34.200 Right.

00:31:34.540 Well, I mean, it's America first in my mind.

00:31:36.640 Yes.

00:31:37.120 And I don't think we should protect any foreign ally or nation.

00:31:40.800 If you've had a role and you could have prevented the murder of 3,000 people,

00:31:45.140 the American public needs to know that and needs to make their own determination as to

00:31:48.620 whether or not you are an ally.

00:31:49.080 So you think that's the heart of this is protecting a foreign country?

00:31:51.680 I think it's protecting a few foreign countries, probably.

00:31:56.220 And I think it's also protecting the United States intel community.

00:32:01.040 Yeah.

00:32:01.240 I mean, there's no doubt.

00:32:02.160 So you said a couple of things.

00:32:04.000 I don't want to let slip through the cracks.

00:32:05.340 It's one that from the very first days of the investigation into this, Saudi, the Kingdom,

00:32:13.600 KSA, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was sort of steered toward you as a culprit.

00:32:20.480 Absolutely.

00:32:21.020 They were like the usual suspect.

00:32:22.460 Right.

00:32:22.820 And isn't that convenient?

00:32:24.100 It's like it was all Saudi all the time. 1.00

00:32:26.240 Right.

00:32:26.680 And so.

00:32:27.700 I bought that completely.

00:32:28.700 Well, and I mean, it's listen, it's it's what's done.

00:32:33.160 Right.

00:32:33.420 You're using it's distraction.

00:32:34.840 It's a totally political strategy to distract people from reality.

00:32:39.620 Right.

00:32:40.320 And so and frankly, the Saudis aren't completely innocent when it comes to, you know, they have 1.00

00:32:46.200 a lot of things that have happened in the past that would, you know, fit the bill for

00:32:51.800 why they might be the usual suspect.

00:32:53.480 But I think, you know, I don't know that Saudis are not into no Arab monarchy is into regime

00:32:58.860 change.

00:32:59.680 Right.

00:33:00.080 So anything having to do with the toppling of Saddam, they would not have been for that.

00:33:04.220 Oh, it's not how they see the world at all.

00:33:05.800 I would agree.

00:33:06.440 They don't like chaos in Saudi.

00:33:08.040 Right.

00:33:08.500 And I'm so for the war in Iraq. 0.99

00:33:10.480 I don't I don't know how that that how anyone could credibly explain that the kingdom did

00:33:17.820 9-11 because they wanted to queue up Iraq. 0.99

00:33:20.220 I don't think it makes any sense.

00:33:21.760 They hate chaos.

00:33:22.660 I mean, they're long term stakeholders.

00:33:24.340 It's a monarchy.

00:33:25.440 Right.

00:33:25.600 And that's what I ask a lot of people that are always like the Saudis, the Saudis, the 1.00

00:33:28.980 Saudis. 0.98

00:33:29.380 I'm like, well, OK, but why?

00:33:32.280 You know, for me, it's like what would have been the motive?

00:33:34.700 Why would the kingdom of Saudi Arabia want to attack the United States, kill 3000 people?

00:33:41.380 What was in it for them? 0.74

00:33:42.840 You know, if you're if you're an evildoer and you're over in Saudi, you're like, hey,

00:33:46.400 let's do this.

00:33:47.520 What were they thinking they were going to get out of it?

00:33:49.440 And realistically speaking, what did they get out of it?

00:33:53.060 Right.

00:33:53.460 And from what I see is they've been tied up in litigation now for 24 years being blamed

00:33:59.960 for 9-11.

00:34:01.040 And so, you know, I don't know whether they did it or not.

00:34:04.620 I don't have access to the classified files, but I don't think that they're alone.

00:34:08.180 I think that there are other foreign governments that should also be examined.

00:34:11.360 And I think it's peculiar that for whatever reason, there's no questions about the other

00:34:16.480 foreign governments.

00:34:17.880 And to me, that sticks out.

00:34:19.180 And it's like, well, are we just being distracted with the kingdom?

00:34:21.960 What about the kingdom and other foreign nations?

00:34:24.800 What about the kingdom, other foreign nations and the U.S. government intelligence apparatus?

00:34:29.700 Because, you know, there's a reason why no one wants you asking those questions.

00:34:33.740 And that in and of itself should raise the hair on the back of your neck.

00:34:38.560 It does.

00:34:39.580 And I was slow to pick up any of this.

00:34:41.900 I bought it completely until I was told by someone.

00:34:46.820 It was a very knowledgeable person, works for the U.S. government.

00:34:49.880 Like, it's not Saudi we're protecting.

00:34:51.760 Whoa.

00:34:52.320 That had never entered my tiny brain.

00:34:53.880 Someone said that to you?

00:34:54.960 Yeah.

00:34:55.620 Yeah.

00:34:56.360 Yeah.

00:34:56.720 Someone who would know, would see in the documents.

00:34:58.300 Someone said.

00:34:59.040 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:59.440 We're not.

00:34:59.940 And I don't know.

00:35:01.300 I think of myself as above average in IQ, but apparently I'm not because that had never

00:35:05.320 entered my brain.

00:35:06.860 I was like, really?

00:35:07.480 What?

00:35:08.600 And I think it is because Saudi, like every American, grows up with mixed feelings about

00:35:13.640 Saudi, clearly dominant in the energy markets.

00:35:18.040 And that's good for us.

00:35:19.640 Has been good for us.

00:35:20.780 Saudi Ramirez is good for us. 0.69

00:35:22.800 But, you know, two foreign polygamy, beheadings, veiled women, like everything about it is just 1.00

00:35:29.280 so far away and kind of scary that when somebody says it was the Saudis, you know, you're like, 0.91

00:35:34.260 yeah, probably Saudis.

00:35:35.420 Oh, they seem weird, you know.

00:35:38.460 But I'm just, it's just dawning on me that maybe some of that, but dawned on you early,

00:35:42.960 this being pushed on you, it was the Saudis. 0.70

00:35:44.680 Well, because it was really overt that it was being pushed on us.

00:35:47.380 Really?

00:35:48.520 Well, I think so, yeah.

00:35:49.560 I mean, we asked the lawyers to sue a whole slew of countries, you know, because I think

00:35:55.300 that there were some fingerprints there for several countries and we were told no, you

00:36:01.180 know, not to get-

00:36:01.940 You were told you couldn't sue foreign countries?

00:36:04.120 Yeah.

00:36:04.660 Certain ones that I wanted to sue.

00:36:07.120 You know, the reality is all of the financing for the hijackers flew through Dubai.

00:36:11.660 I was like, why aren't we suing the Emirates?

00:36:14.180 Pakistan.

00:36:14.920 I was like, why aren't we going after Pakistan? 1.00

00:36:17.340 I'm not saying that they had a hand in, either of those countries had a hand in it,

00:36:20.600 but I was like, why aren't we at least looking into it?

00:36:22.960 And I think one of the biggest frustrations for me is the U.S. government's Department

00:36:27.940 of Justice's failure, abject failure to prosecute anyone.

00:36:32.800 The U.S. government didn't investigate anything.

00:36:35.640 They didn't look into Saudi.

00:36:37.220 They didn't really credibly look into UAE.

00:36:40.600 They didn't look into Pakistan.

00:36:41.700 They did nothing.

00:36:42.260 They literally have not, to this day, successfully and fully prosecuted anyone for the 9-11 attacks.

00:36:49.660 How is that possible?

00:36:50.840 3,000 people were murdered.

00:36:53.080 If you're a U.S. attorney, your job is to go out and investigate that murder and prosecute

00:36:58.800 people, have a grand jury, hold people accountable, put them in jail.

00:37:02.220 You're telling me that with all of the money that flew in and out of this country connected

00:37:07.120 to the hijackers, there wasn't one bank account, there wasn't one stock trade that you could

00:37:12.800 drill down on and find out that someone had foreknowledge.

00:37:15.720 And if they had foreknowledge, well, how the hell do they have the foreknowledge?

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00:39:37.500 You know, that's the case on 9-11.

00:39:40.720 It's also the case with Charlie Kirk's murder.

00:39:42.900 You know, it was people had foreknowledge because they bragged about it online on X.

00:39:47.600 And those people have not been arrested.

00:39:50.440 I don't know that they've been questioned, by the way.

00:39:53.680 Maybe they have been.

00:39:54.640 I just don't know.

00:39:55.480 I've asked.

00:39:56.100 Can't quite get an answer there.

00:39:57.540 But I know on 9-11, there were stock trades that proved foreknowledge of the airlines, of the banks, in the buildings that were hit.

00:40:05.540 And the U.S. government said, yeah, we know who did those.

00:40:08.220 We executed those trades.

00:40:09.340 But we weren't going to tell you.

00:40:11.000 Isn't that unbelievable?

00:40:11.960 What is that?

00:40:13.160 That's what I'm saying.

00:40:14.040 Like, how unbelievable.

00:40:14.840 And so what happened is, when the U.S. government doesn't take it upon itself to have a prosecution, to have an investigation, it's left to the victims' families to hire lawyers and do it on their own.

00:40:27.540 And you're really hamstrung to do that.

00:40:30.360 Like, you're talking about a terrorist attack where all the documents are classified.

00:40:34.020 It's all held by the government.

00:40:35.840 Everything that you need to learn about your case, to build your case, is in the government's hands.

00:40:40.640 And the government refuses to give you that information.

00:40:43.440 And so we're kind of left in this limbo where the U.S. government didn't do its job to prevent the attacks.

00:40:49.940 Then the Department of Justice after 9-11 didn't do its job to prosecute or hold anyone accountable and provide justice to the murdered victims' families.

00:40:59.200 And so the murdered victims' families turned to the civil litigation process, which, if everyone remembers O.J., you know, it was what Nicole Simpson's family had to do.

00:41:08.360 You know, it's kind of a shitty second.

00:41:11.420 Yeah.

00:41:11.920 It's really not helpful.

00:41:13.460 And so that's what we were relegated to.

00:41:15.300 And then those attorneys, not all of them, but many of them, were just unwilling.

00:41:20.100 First of all, they were unwilling to sue the U.S. government.

00:41:22.440 Like, and I asked.

00:41:23.680 I've got the emails to prove it.

00:41:25.560 And then I asked about—

00:41:26.440 Why were they unwilling to sue the U.S. government?

00:41:29.140 First, they told us we weren't allowed, which is not true because in the wake of, you know, the last 20 years, you see the Emanuel Church family suing.

00:41:36.740 You see the Fort Hood family suing.

00:41:38.460 You are allowed to sue the U.S. government.

00:41:41.380 Our attorneys initially told us that we couldn't.

00:41:43.380 Of course, we were also forced into what the government did, which was the Victims' Compensation Fund, which was retroactively taking away our right to sue by capping liability levels from 9-11.

00:41:58.120 So what happened was 9-11 happens.

00:42:00.680 The towers collapse.

00:42:02.520 You know, the country is worried about being destabilized.

00:42:05.940 The economy is going to crater.

00:42:07.300 Right, the airlines.

00:42:07.940 So supposedly Congress swept in, you know, heroically and created the airline stabilization bill.

00:42:16.100 And I don't know how they wrote that bill because it's pretty precise, but yet somehow they wrote it in like nine days.

00:42:23.260 And in doing so, retroactively capped liability levels for anyone, for the airlines, for the city of New York.

00:42:32.560 Later, like two months later, President Bush capped the liability levels for Boeing Airlines.

00:42:37.420 And essentially, the widows and kids were left being told, you're not going to be able to sue because there's not enough money to pay you.

00:42:46.060 There were so many people killed.

00:42:47.640 There's just not enough money.

00:42:48.760 So you're going to have to go into this Victims' Compensation Fund run by this special master.

00:42:54.240 And you'll be paid an amount of money and it's no fault and go away.

00:43:00.480 And, you know, as an American citizen, a lawyer, I was like, wait a minute, you're not allowed to take away someone's right to sue after the murder.

00:43:08.480 Like, that's not how it works.

00:43:10.080 And yet, we weren't given a choice.

00:43:12.240 It was shoved down our throats.

00:43:14.000 And so that's what we were left with.

00:43:16.340 And the legislation that created this was written in nine days?

00:43:19.420 Like nine days.

00:43:20.980 So you're...

00:43:21.800 And it's pretty comprehensive.

00:43:22.680 Your lawyer, as you just said, how hard would it be to write...

00:43:28.240 So you can take the first three days off because, like, it's right after 9-11.

00:43:31.520 The country's in chaos.

00:43:32.580 I don't know.

00:43:32.960 Condi Rice, immediately after 9-11, is sitting with the National Security Council.

00:43:36.960 And I was like, how can we capitalize on this opportunity?

00:43:40.300 She said that?

00:43:41.120 She said that.

00:43:42.640 Capitalize on this opportunity.

00:43:44.120 It's so evil.

00:43:44.660 The pile was still burning.

00:43:46.200 And she's, how can we capitalize on this opportunity?

00:43:49.940 My head split in half when I read that quote.

00:43:53.140 Literally.

00:43:54.100 Like, I just was like...

00:43:55.200 She's been rewarded.

00:43:55.880 She runs Hoover. 1.00

00:43:58.240 Close friend of Philip Zellico's.

00:44:00.820 Exactly.

00:44:01.520 Yeah.

00:44:01.800 So my point is, we were not allowed to...

00:44:05.920 Like, first of all, the U.S. government did nothing.

00:44:08.840 We were relegated to this fund that was, quote, unquote, no fault.

00:44:12.580 There was going to be no trials, no investigation, no hearing, no discovery, no cross-examination,

00:44:17.960 no jury.

00:44:18.960 And so what we were allowed to do was to sue the co-conspirators.

00:44:23.560 But again, the U.S. government didn't go after any, quote, unquote, co-conspirators.

00:44:27.260 They threw them all down at Guantanamo and waterboarded them, tortured them.

00:44:31.120 So there's no, you know, going after them, right?

00:44:34.440 And so we were left with the civil litigation system.

00:44:37.340 Um, lawyers, many of whom were, like, aviation attorneys.

00:44:41.740 One group is former tobacco, big tobacco attorneys.

00:44:45.160 Um, and they were willing to go after the kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

00:44:49.080 And the rest of these entities, whether it was a foreign government, Emirates, Pakistan,

00:44:54.180 or the U.S. government, we were told no can do.

00:44:57.640 What about Israel?

00:44:58.700 Oh, that would have never come up.

00:45:01.080 Why?

00:45:02.000 I don't know.

00:45:02.480 That's what I'm saying.

00:45:03.060 Like, to me, when you're not asking very, you know, pragmatic, obvious questions, and

00:45:10.400 people don't even ask the question, or if you do ask the question, you just sort of get

00:45:15.280 shut down.

00:45:16.220 To me, that makes me suspicious, right?

00:45:19.220 Like, why aren't we going after those countries?

00:45:22.220 Why isn't my country looking into those countries and what they knew?

00:45:26.000 And yet, there's never been an interest.

00:45:28.440 And I think that that's suspicious.

00:45:30.620 Well, by definition, by definition, I mean, science and law enforcement have one thing

00:45:36.460 in common.

00:45:37.160 Every possibility has to be considered, maybe immediately discarded.

00:45:41.040 But if you don't consider a possibility, then you're clearly not working to get the truth.

00:45:45.220 You're not doing your job.

00:45:45.960 You're covering something up, not trying to illuminate it.

00:45:49.300 Um, yeah, again, by definition, I can't let this pass.

00:45:52.320 I don't want to forget to ask you about it.

00:45:53.780 At the outset of our conversation, you said, not only did the U.S. government fail to protect

00:45:59.140 the country, perma facia, but they did nothing to mitigate the effects of the crime once

00:46:05.500 it happened?

00:46:06.300 Something like that.

00:46:07.000 What does that mean?

00:46:07.840 Right.

00:46:08.180 So, um, not only did they fail to prevent the attacks from happening, which Tom Kane,

00:46:13.940 commissioner of the, uh, chairman of the 9-11 commission clearly said the 9-11 attacks

00:46:19.460 100% could have and should have been prevented.

00:46:22.140 There was enough information in the pipeline for it to be stopped on a number of occasions.

00:46:26.900 It's not just like one instance, several instances where the plot could have been unraveled,

00:46:32.280 stopped, 3,000 lives saved.

00:46:34.200 Okay.

00:46:34.500 Or at least the attack delayed in enough time to learn more and really stop the ultimate

00:46:39.660 attack.

00:46:40.400 That's number one.

00:46:41.320 But on the day of 9-11, um, the U.S. government did absolutely nothing in a defensive posture

00:46:47.460 to mitigate the damage of the attacks.

00:46:50.060 What does that mean?

00:46:51.580 First and foremost, my husband was on the 94th floor of the second tower.

00:46:55.400 He called me, um, after the first building was hit and he's like, I don't want you to

00:47:00.180 worry.

00:47:00.560 It's not my building.

00:47:01.520 Don't worry.

00:47:02.300 And I said, you know, what's going on?

00:47:04.700 I'm truncating the story.

00:47:06.120 And he said, they're telling us to stay at our desks.

00:47:08.360 Well, an elevator in the World Trade Center went to top to bottom in a minute's time.

00:47:14.380 If at 8.58, the Port Authority and the companies didn't tell people like my husband to stay at

00:47:20.500 their desks and told them to evacuate, those people would have gotten below the zone of

00:47:25.440 impact and survived in the second tower.

00:47:27.700 In my opinion, there is no excuse for any loss of life in the second building.

00:47:32.360 And in the first building, the only loss of life should have been above the impact zone.

00:47:37.200 Okay.

00:47:37.440 That's one way that lives could have been saved and damage could have been mitigated.

00:47:43.220 Number two, Christy Todd Whitman told the rescue workers, all of New York, that the air

00:47:48.900 was safe to breathe.

00:47:49.880 We were told early on when people caught, you know, that we were, you know, the Jersey

00:47:54.160 girls were fighting and trying to get the truth. 1.00

00:47:56.600 We were told that the sniffers that were put around ground zero, they're supposed to be at 0.82

00:48:01.520 a certain height above the ground to sniff the air.

00:48:05.100 They were above the point where they were supposed to be so that the air that they were testing

00:48:10.580 wasn't the actual air that people were breathing.

00:48:14.340 Okay.

00:48:15.260 Another prime example, the air was not safe to breathe.

00:48:17.940 I don't know what was used in those attacks, but I know that it's caused a lot of cancer.

00:48:22.880 Okay.

00:48:23.160 I think that's pretty much proven at this point.

00:48:26.600 I think it's pretty much proven.

00:48:27.480 And so when the U.S. government goes and tells thousands of people, I think at this point

00:48:34.280 there's 70,000, that the air was safe to breathe, they're responsible for that.

00:48:39.020 All of those people have been injured and harmed.

00:48:41.540 Some of them have died since then.

00:48:43.200 That is an example of devastation, illness, disease that could have been stopped, might

00:48:49.300 not have even ever happened if the U.S. government did its job.

00:48:52.120 So the biggest one that I think speaks to what doesn't make a lot of sense is the scrambling

00:48:59.500 of the jets.

00:49:00.700 So on the day of 9-11, there were a series of procedures and protocols in place for hijacking

00:49:07.400 of planes.

00:49:08.640 And the North American Air Defense, NORAD, scrambles jets.

00:49:15.140 So what happens is, you know, people forget, but like in the 70s, there were a lot of hijackings.

00:49:20.120 Oh, of course, to Cuba.

00:49:21.100 Yeah, exactly.

00:49:22.360 And they were kind of commonplace.

00:49:23.640 Like I've read a couple of articles recently where, you know, an Eastern plane was hijacked.

00:49:28.060 100%.

00:49:28.180 Everyone was chill about it.

00:49:29.280 They just like served cocktails and you went to Cuba for like, which is kind of surreal.

00:49:33.860 90 miles out of your way.

00:49:35.080 Yeah, it was like, you know, free booze.

00:49:37.840 Yeah, exactly.

00:49:38.260 Right.

00:49:38.800 And they were just kind of like a nuisance and the pilots were chill about it and whatever.

00:49:42.000 And so were the flight attendants.

00:49:43.420 Everyone was trained.

00:49:44.220 But regardless, what happened was a couple of things.

00:49:47.000 Like number one, you know, they started the Sky Marshall program, which required that if there

00:49:51.540 was something suspicious about someone going on a plane, a Sky Marshall whose job it was

00:49:55.880 to keep an eye on things and keep the plane safe was on the plane.

00:49:59.340 The other thing that happened was that they had a protocol that F-16s, if there is a hijacking

00:50:05.100 or the suspicion of a hijacking, were supposed to be scrambled to go up to meet the plane and

00:50:11.840 to do a series of things to sort of find out if it isn't a hijacking and to stop it, to thwart it,

00:50:17.680 to threaten, whatever.

00:50:18.760 Okay.

00:50:19.400 Well, on 9-11, for some reason, the first plane, Flight 11, was confirmed hijacked at 8-14 in the

00:50:28.260 morning, 8-14.

00:50:30.560 And the planes did not scramble according to the 9-11 commission until after the Pentagon was hit at 9-38.

00:50:37.580 So that's like an hour and 20 minutes.

00:50:43.060 Typically, historically speaking, the F-16s scramble within a few minutes.

00:50:47.960 They're up airborne at, you know, full speed.

00:50:52.180 And the saying back in the day was that if you had a plane that was not behaving normally,

00:50:59.360 you'd find an F-16 on your tail within 10 minutes.

00:51:02.460 That was actually a bit of grace.

00:51:04.420 It was really like five to six minutes.

00:51:06.400 And for some bizarre reason, on the morning of September 11th, those F-16s didn't get up in time.

00:51:13.080 More to the point, the air bases where there were F-16 squadrons that could have gone and

00:51:18.520 intercepted the errant planes on 9-11, they didn't call the F-16s from there.

00:51:24.520 They called them from bases that were further away.

00:51:27.160 A perfect example, McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey had F-16s.

00:51:31.180 They brought the planes from Otis, which was like, I think, 200 miles away from the city and away from the planes.

00:51:38.060 Down in D.C., instead of running the F-16s out of Andrews, they ran them out of, I can't think of the name of that, but out of Maryland instead.

00:51:48.640 And so what happened was the planes were hijacked and just allowed to crash into the buildings with no interception.

00:51:55.220 Except for the final plane, Flight 93 over Pennsylvania, a number of eyewitnesses, many eyewitnesses saw military aircraft near that plane.

00:52:02.800 Yep, they did.

00:52:03.580 So what was that?

00:52:05.500 I don't know.

00:52:06.100 I mean, obviously there's talk that it was shot down.

00:52:08.800 Well, Dick Cheney gave the order.

00:52:10.480 He did give the order.

00:52:11.520 Right.

00:52:11.780 And then they said, but we didn't actually do it.

00:52:14.900 And then there was a very elaborate story about what happened inside the plane and kind of a heartwarming, wonderful story.

00:52:21.440 The protagonist was called Todd Beamer.

00:52:24.700 And he, you know, lets roll and roll a drink cart against the...

00:52:28.620 It's a heroic story.

00:52:29.780 It is.

00:52:30.040 It's a wonderful story.

00:52:30.820 And they made a movie about it and all this stuff.

00:52:33.660 But that was celebrated and it should be celebrated.

00:52:37.580 It's a great story.

00:52:38.280 I'm not attacking anybody, of course.

00:52:39.960 But it did have the feeling of like, we're going to make this into a great story.

00:52:44.960 And it did make me wonder, like, whatever happened to that shoot down the plane order and there were military aircraft next to the plane?

00:52:53.080 Like, what should we think about that?

00:52:54.860 Yeah, I mean, I think that you could drill down on that.

00:52:56.920 Go to Otis Air Force Base and, you know, get the files.

00:53:00.680 Find out when those F-16s left, if they were armed, and if they came back with the same amount of missiles that they left with.

00:53:06.640 It's not that hard to figure out.

00:53:08.160 You could test the soil.

00:53:09.040 Has anyone done that?

00:53:10.060 I don't know.

00:53:10.560 I don't know if anyone's asked.

00:53:14.180 You know, if you don't ask, you don't get.

00:53:16.000 But I know that there were eyewitnesses at the crash at 93 that said that it was unlike any crash scene that they'd ever seen.

00:53:23.060 That there was no fuselage.

00:53:24.580 That there was no, you know, evidence of the plane seats, of luggage, of, you know, it was just a black hole.

00:53:30.480 I read a lot of books, and I'm really good at going to used book sales and finding old books.

00:53:37.340 And there's a lot of 9-11 books that you can pick up at used book sales.

00:53:40.680 And one of them is a group of reporters that put a book together with their photos and their recollection from the day of 9-11.

00:53:48.280 And I read with great interest the two sections of that book, one on the Pentagon and one on Flight 93, because when you read these reporters' information about both crash sites and what they experienced that day, it doesn't really match up to what we've been told.

00:54:07.180 Can you give me an example?

00:54:08.840 Sure.

00:54:09.180 Like I said, the crash site in Shanksville, these reporters had seen airplane crash sites before.

00:54:15.740 They've reported on them.

00:54:16.920 They're mainstream reporters.

00:54:18.760 And they just said it was, like, really curious.

00:54:20.940 There was no visible sign of a plane anywhere.

00:54:23.660 There were no engines.

00:54:24.600 There were no seat backs.

00:54:26.120 There was no luggage.

00:54:27.120 There was no nothing.

00:54:28.760 I will say, I think that was one of the planes where they did find a passport.

00:54:32.860 Yeah.

00:54:33.520 The eyewitnesses that were literally there, they came from Pittsburgh, I think, and got to the scene quite early.

00:54:38.800 And then suddenly, you know, like, federal agents came and, like, pushed them all back, pushed them all back, took film, took cameras, what have you.

00:54:46.180 So I think that that's curious.

00:54:48.140 So that doesn't really, you know, raises questions like what happened.

00:54:52.340 And I think the Pentagon is obviously a really good question.

00:54:56.040 I think that we've been told that Hani Hanjor, the hijacker that flew that plane, you know, was responsible for what is considered in pilot circles an extraordinary maneuver.

00:55:08.140 And Hani Hanjor, a month or two before 9-11, almost got kicked out of flight school because he was that incompetent.

00:55:16.100 He didn't speak English.

00:55:17.140 How someone like that would have been able to pull off that maneuver, putting aside the fact that the air defense that was on top of the Pentagon and at the White House also didn't lock on to the plane and shoot it down.

00:55:31.960 Or they weren't even, you know, there's no evidence whatsoever that any of the missiles that were on top of the Pentagon defense missiles that were designed to protect the Pentagon from anything, they didn't go off and neither did the ones at the White House.

00:55:49.080 So I think that that's kind of weird.

00:55:50.600 I also think it's weird.

00:55:52.680 We had a real long conversation with the commission about the lack of radar evidence of Flight 77 from the Kentucky-Ohio border all the way back to the Pentagon.

00:56:04.280 I remember the call quite vividly.

00:56:07.080 And we were told that in all of history before and the time after there has never been an anomaly in the radar.

00:56:15.940 Or just by way of background, the United States has several layers of radar, you know, everything from traffic, radar, all the way up.

00:56:24.160 And yet this like 12 or 13 layers of radar coverage was this anomaly.

00:56:31.140 It all broke down at one time.

00:56:33.480 Every single system completely just didn't work from the time that Flight 77 flew from the Kentucky-Ohio border to the Pentagon.

00:56:42.780 There's no evidence of it whatsoever.

00:56:44.060 And so-

00:56:46.060 There's no radar image at all of Flight 77 flying toward the Pentagon?

00:56:50.360 Not from the Ohio-Kentucky border, which is where the last-

00:56:55.300 Yeah, Louisville area.

00:56:55.900 Yeah.

00:56:57.180 To the Pentagon, like the DC aerospace was when they picked it up again.

00:57:01.440 And I think what's interesting is that initially Flight 77, three things happened to that plane at the Ohio-Kentucky border.

00:57:08.160 And typically, historically speaking, when those three things happen, it's always an airplane crash.

00:57:14.740 So the first thing that happened was the transponder was disengaged.

00:57:19.020 The second thing that happened was the primary radar of that plane went away.

00:57:25.860 Primary radar is when radar waves hit an object in the sky.

00:57:31.220 If it's a bird, if it's a plane, what have you.

00:57:33.380 And it bounces back.

00:57:35.100 So at this one place over the Ohio-Kentucky border, the transponder disconnected and the skin radar for Flight 77 disappeared, which means it was no longer in the sky.

00:57:45.180 And then the third thing that is really, really odd is that the ELT went off the pinger.

00:57:53.660 And that only ever usually goes off if there's a catastrophic emergency on the plane, right?

00:58:00.000 It went off not at the Pentagon, but at the Kentucky-Ohio border.

00:58:03.180 Right.

00:58:03.440 With the transponder and the actual primary skin radar disappearing off the scope.

00:58:08.880 And so simultaneously to that, there are reports in the, you know, police reports from the area that there was a plane crash.

00:58:17.780 And in fact, in the-

00:58:19.260 There was a plane crash where?

00:58:20.480 In the Ohio-Kentucky border, where all those three things happened.

00:58:22.980 It was pinpointed and there was a plane crash there and the state police were rushing towards the crash.

00:58:27.520 There were reports of that?

00:58:28.860 Yeah, there are actually police reports that you can read.

00:58:30.740 And then at the very same time in the situation room, it was also reported that Flight 77 or a plane that they thought was Flight 77 crashed at the Kentucky-Ohio border.

00:58:42.900 And then subsequent to that, the commission came out and said, no, no, no, no, that was just false reporting.

00:58:48.280 But that happens to be the last place it was seen on radar.

00:58:50.980 Yeah.

00:58:51.200 And then, of course, if you look at the FBI photos, there's a bunch of, you know, theories out there, conspiracy theories or what have you.

00:58:59.540 It doesn't look like a plane hit the Pentagon, right?

00:59:02.920 Like you look at, it looks like a punched hole.

00:59:05.420 And, you know, Flight 77 was a rather large plane.

00:59:09.240 There were no plane parts.

00:59:10.840 There was no fuselage.

00:59:11.920 The jet engines weren't on the outside of the Pentagon.

00:59:13.900 And the footage shows that whatever pierced the Pentagon sort of, like, leapfrogged and, like, crisscrossed, which kind of defies the rules of physics.

00:59:23.720 But, again, if you raise these questions, if you ask these questions, you're immediately shut down as a conspiracy theorist.

00:59:30.340 But, like, the facts are the facts.

00:59:31.820 You can look at a photo.

00:59:33.060 On top of it, the Pentagon, you know, our home of our defense.

00:59:36.600 There's no video footage of the plane except for a gas station video that has been partially released to the American public.

00:59:46.700 How is that possible?

00:59:48.120 Like, how is there no other footage of the plane flying into that building?

00:59:53.220 It doesn't make any sense.

00:59:54.820 So why 24 years out, why don't we just get all that information?

00:59:59.720 Why won't it just be released to the American public to sort of shut down these theories, to clarify what happened, and to give, you know, the families an understanding of how the nation was not only attacked, but how our Department of Defense did nothing in its own defense while under attack?

01:00:19.560 Like, I don't understand how that happened and there was no need to, like, really, like, ream some people out, right? 0.98

01:00:27.640 Like, if you're the president and your Pentagon just got attacked, like, wouldn't you be like, where the fuck were you guys? 0.99

01:00:33.460 Like, what happened? 0.98

01:00:34.400 Like, where were the air-to-surface missiles?

01:00:35.920 You're literally the Pentagon.

01:00:37.100 Yeah, like, you're the Pentagon.

01:00:38.520 The Defense Department.

01:00:39.500 But that's what I'm saying.

01:00:40.540 Like, how, and it's not like the Defense Department was hit first.

01:00:45.140 It was hit, you know, an hour and 20 minutes after the first confirmed hijack of Flight 11.

01:00:52.520 How is that possible?

01:00:53.840 And if it did happen, why didn't heads roll?

01:00:57.640 Why wasn't our entire government petrified?

01:01:01.480 Here we are for years fighting the great bear, Russia, and they're like, you know, we've got NORAD and fighter jets and we're worried about nukes coming in. 0.83

01:01:08.620 And somehow some non-English-speaking incompetent al-Qaeda operative who couldn't even fly a Cessna, let alone a jumbo jet, is able to pull off a fighter pilot maneuver and fly, I don't know, 15 feet off the ground into the side of the Pentagon. 0.57

01:01:28.500 But meanwhile, there's no radar track.

01:01:31.280 There's no evidence of it.

01:01:32.800 We're just told that that's what happened.

01:01:34.960 And it's the Pentagon.

01:01:36.380 Like, I don't understand how we were attacked at our Department of Defense and President Bush wasn't outraged.

01:01:44.580 But they didn't want any investigation.

01:01:46.780 And keep in mind that the Joint Intelligence Committee that did investigate was only investigating intelligence community failures.

01:01:54.180 That's the NSA, the FBI, and the CIA.

01:01:56.520 They weren't investigating the failure of the Department of Defense to defend itself on the day of 9-11.

01:02:01.820 Or the actual crime.

01:02:04.020 I mean, just the mechanics of the crime itself, as presented to us, the public, hard to understand.

01:02:11.440 And I don't have any secret theory.

01:02:13.440 I would just say it if I did.

01:02:15.120 But they're telling us that these guys who are not pilots who went to flaky flight schools in Florida or Arizona or wherever and didn't do very well, as you noted, infected so badly that they alerted local law enforcement.

01:02:28.760 Like, what is this?

01:02:29.640 That's how bad they were.

01:02:30.480 They stuck out. 0.99

01:02:31.620 Like, they were so grossly incompetent. 0.98

01:02:33.560 Right.

01:02:34.020 That, like, the flight school were like, what is going on here?

01:02:36.700 But they murder the pilots of these planes.

01:02:39.500 This is a story.

01:02:40.720 And maybe it's true.

01:02:41.240 I have no idea.

01:02:41.800 But it's hard to understand it.

01:02:43.980 So they murder the pilots.

01:02:46.800 And the plane's flying in the other direction.

01:02:49.560 They're not American. 1.00

01:02:50.620 In at least one case, they don't speak English.

01:02:52.460 And they somehow turn the planes around and then go to, like, the precise, you know, to the side of the Pentagon, to the Twin Towers in Lower Manhattan.

01:03:03.060 Was the idea that they programmed that into the computer?

01:03:06.540 Or how does that work?

01:03:07.340 I don't know.

01:03:07.900 I don't know how they even got the pilots out of their seats to take control of the plane.

01:03:13.660 You know, again, like, you're flying it.

01:03:15.620 So, in other words, a cockpit is a small place.

01:03:18.020 Like, the pilot and co-pilot are in their seats.

01:03:20.800 They're flying the plane.

01:03:22.040 The hijackers, according to the official story, burst into the cockpit.

01:03:26.320 They, you know, decapitate, you know.

01:03:31.780 That's the official story.

01:03:33.180 The official story is that they were decapitated.

01:03:35.060 And so then they had to lift those bodies out of those seats, not to be macabre, and then jump into those seats and fly the plane.

01:03:42.160 But, like, I don't know how that works.

01:03:43.920 Like, I do know that at 30,000 feet, there aren't street signs.

01:03:47.380 So, when you take over a plane at 30,000 feet somewhere over the United States of America, I don't know how you know which way to turn.

01:03:54.300 I don't know how you know where the Pentagon is.

01:03:57.160 I mean, I know it looks like a Pentagon, but when you're 30,000 feet up, you know, and you're over Kentucky, like, how do you know which direction to go to find the Pentagon?

01:04:06.140 Because, according to the official story, the hijackers were not communicating with the ground.

01:04:10.160 Typically, when planes navigate across the United States, they must communicate with the ground.

01:04:15.380 You check in with different, you know, sectors.

01:04:18.900 And when you cross over the sector, that's how everyone knows where that particular plane is.

01:04:23.920 That didn't happen on 9-11 when the hijackers took over, and somehow the planes were able to navigate exactly to the precise target, coupling that with the fact that the hijackers were just grossly incompetent.

01:04:36.420 They didn't speak English, and just sort of, like, the story itself, like, I don't understand.

01:04:45.000 These hijackers were, like, little guys.

01:04:47.320 How did they get the pilots and co-pilots out of the cockpit area, get in the seats, clean up all the mess from the violence, and then fly the plane?

01:04:57.060 It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

01:04:58.880 Our understanding of what happened, again, comes from the 9-11 commission telling us what happened, and comes from the cell phone calls that gave an awful lot of information about the hijackers.

01:05:09.000 And, again, there, there's been a lot of, you know, talk about how that was possible.

01:05:14.260 When planes are, you know, flying at 30,000 feet, how, in 2001, was there able to be a connected cell phone call?

01:05:23.060 More to the point when the planes are being flown sort of, like, haphazardly and herky-jerky.

01:05:28.440 And, you know, the way cell phones work is they connect from towers to the ground.

01:05:32.040 Well, when a plane is moving all over the airspace and flying at maximum speed, it's really, really rare for a cell phone to connect at 5,000 feet, let alone 30,000 feet.

01:05:45.200 And so that raises questions.

01:05:46.760 Our entire understanding of what took place on those planes literally comes from the cell phone calls.

01:05:51.500 We asked the FBI about that, and we didn't really get any clear answers.

01:05:57.140 And to this day, we still don't have many clear answers.

01:05:59.740 But you don't have clear answers about pretty central questions.

01:06:04.500 Exactly.

01:06:04.960 These are not ancillary questions.

01:06:06.380 These are, like, the most basic, like, how'd they do that?

01:06:08.700 I mean, my biggest...

01:06:09.420 And you don't know?

01:06:10.100 No, we don't know.

01:06:10.800 Like, my biggest questions, aside from the cell phones and what have you, and how the hijackers themselves were actually able to, you know, navigate from the middle of nowhere to the precise targets that they went to when they were so grossly incompetent and not speaking to the ground.

01:06:25.920 My biggest question is, where was our air defense?

01:06:28.700 I know as a fact, because I read all the rules and the procedures and protocols back in the day, those F-16s should have been up within five minutes.

01:06:36.880 They should have been flanking those planes, and they should have stopped those planes.

01:06:39.840 And at the bare minimum, they should have been communicating down to the ground, the F-16 pilots, to say, we can't get these guys to stop, you know, and put people on alert, right?

01:06:50.700 But for some reason, three planes were allowed to be hijacked over the course of almost an hour and a half, and the United States of America did nothing to stop it.

01:07:01.000 So, putting aside all the failures to prevent the attacks for the 18 months, two years before 9-11, okay?

01:07:09.200 You look at the day of, and we get back to your original question.

01:07:12.540 How could the devastation have been mitigated?

01:07:14.680 One simple way is that if the F-16s had done their job, had done what they were trained to do, which, by the way, there's also evidence that there was a drill, a military drill, on the day of 9-11 about a plane being hijacked and flown into a building, okay?

01:07:31.860 These F-16 pilots are trained to do that.

01:07:35.060 That was the procedure and the protocol.

01:07:36.700 For some reason, on 9-11, it didn't happen at all.

01:07:42.020 You've asked these questions, I assume, to members of Congress.

01:07:45.300 We were told that it was the fog of war.

01:07:49.780 That's what we were told.

01:07:50.620 That was the answer?

01:07:51.520 Yeah.

01:07:53.340 Did, I mean, but at some point, you know, like, the rest of us were watching this on TV.

01:07:57.920 We, so, I mean, clearly, whoever's commanding those aircraft knew that this was happening also.

01:08:03.980 Everyone knew.

01:08:05.020 I mean, I was here.

01:08:05.720 You were here.

01:08:06.300 Right.

01:08:07.640 That, I mean, did the person who prevented those planes from taking off ever get punished?

01:08:11.940 Did anyone get punished?

01:08:12.840 No one's ever been punished.

01:08:13.980 I think the commission's, we like to say that the commission's finding was everyone was at fault, therefore no one is at fault.

01:08:19.620 Right.

01:08:19.920 And so.

01:08:21.600 We're all guilty.

01:08:22.940 But, you know, again, 3,000 people were murdered.

01:08:25.860 And I think that my husband was one of them.

01:08:29.180 And I don't understand.

01:08:30.940 I go back to the rule of law.

01:08:32.300 We are a democracy.

01:08:33.400 We're a nation founded upon the rule of law.

01:08:35.920 How has our entire legal system failed the 9-11 widows and children?

01:08:42.340 How has the Department of Justice failed the widows and children, not only before 9-11, on 9-11?

01:08:48.700 And I'll tell you something in the wake of 9-11.

01:08:51.440 Because if there is one entity that has re-victimized and horribly treated the 9-11 widows and children, it is our Department of Justice.

01:08:59.500 And they should be held accountable for what they have done.

01:09:01.700 Wow, that's interesting.

01:09:02.540 That's, I want to hear that story because I can tell you know a lot about it and you're passionate about it.

01:09:09.280 But before we get to that, just one last question about the day of, about 9-11 in itself.

01:09:12.900 What, what was Building 7?

01:09:15.640 So I'm, full disclosure, I have always focused my studies and research and expertise, if you want to say that, on the intelligence failures.

01:09:26.080 Yes.

01:09:26.340 I did watch your series.

01:09:28.640 I listened to it.

01:09:29.680 I didn't watch it.

01:09:30.440 I don't like to watch myself.

01:09:32.200 I know what you mean.

01:09:33.280 But, and I, I do know Building 7, there's a lot of talk that it doesn't make a lot of sense.

01:09:40.640 Um, you know, I think that there needs to be some questions to Special Ops as to whether or not, as way of fact, that any bombs were planted in the couches of that building.

01:09:52.660 The couches?

01:09:53.660 The couches.

01:09:54.720 What does that mean?

01:09:55.400 The couch like you sit on a couch?

01:09:56.620 Yeah.

01:09:57.460 Why do you say couches?

01:09:58.940 I, you know, listen, over the years we've had people that came and approached us and tried to give us information, all kinds of different people.

01:10:05.400 I bet.

01:10:05.540 And I think that one of the things that needs to be examined is Building 7.

01:10:10.480 I think that hard questions need to be asked as to how and why that building fell.

01:10:14.100 But why do you say couches?

01:10:15.920 I just happen to wonder if bombs were planted in the couches by Special Ops.

01:10:22.880 You happen to wonder?

01:10:24.960 I mean, that's not something you would arrive at just sort of randomly, the couches.

01:10:28.320 Everyone talks about the columns and the fireproofing, but you're saying, so you, obviously.

01:10:33.260 Obviously, you were-

01:10:34.540 I don't know.

01:10:34.860 I mean, listen, like I said, we had a lot of people approach us.

01:10:37.580 We had air traffic controller people in the beginning.

01:10:40.100 We had an Iranian, a former Iranian give us information.

01:10:44.380 We had able danger guys come to us.

01:10:46.260 I bet you did.

01:10:47.180 We had foreign governments try to give us stuff.

01:10:50.100 We had death threats.

01:10:50.980 We had all kinds of stuff.

01:10:53.300 So, you know, I'm just throwing that out.

01:10:55.360 Building 7, that's what I could say.

01:10:56.920 It's not my area.

01:10:58.220 It's not what I focused on.

01:10:59.520 I get it.

01:10:59.880 I totally get it.

01:11:00.040 I think it is a total anomaly that that happened.

01:11:02.400 It doesn't make any sense to me.

01:11:03.860 And what's interesting is like, it's something that I had never studied before.

01:11:06.960 And, you know, it's true.

01:11:08.320 Like, it's kind of odd.

01:11:09.820 And I think that we should get some answers.

01:11:13.980 The couches.

01:11:15.020 Okay.

01:11:15.480 Sorry.

01:11:15.860 I'm gonna-

01:11:16.440 Couches.

01:11:17.480 Yeah.

01:11:17.920 No, it's just such a-

01:11:19.020 I don't know nothing.

01:11:20.140 Yeah, no, I get it.

01:11:21.040 But clearly, you know, you were a kind of clearinghouse for this stuff.

01:11:24.300 Yeah.

01:11:24.660 Just because of your role for those people who weren't around or don't remember, you were-

01:11:29.620 No, I mean, like, one of the things that sticks out to me that we had heard, one of the nicer-

01:11:34.620 Sometimes you hear information that I believe is sort of like a limited hangout or to try to, like, explain the real story, but, like, soften it.

01:11:41.460 And so one of the things that we heard is like, yeah, we were following them, but, you know, you know, we thought it was gonna be November 9th instead of September 11th.

01:11:51.820 We reversed the numbers.

01:11:53.660 And I was like, oh, that's interesting.

01:11:56.120 You know, so you were following them or you weren't following them or you're on the practice runs or you're not on the practice runs.

01:12:01.140 But that was one of the stories that we had heard from, like, a source that, like, yeah, like, they were getting followed.

01:12:06.520 We were, you know, but we thought it was gonna be 11-9, not 9-11.

01:12:10.440 That doesn't really make a lot of sense because we had the NSA listening into the conversations between bin Laden and the other operatives.

01:12:17.780 And as everybody knows now, because Senator Hatch leaked some of the information that, like, tomorrow is zero hour, you know, the big wedding, it's two sticks and an upside down birthday cake.

01:12:30.880 I think that there was plenty of information out there to let people know that it was actually 9-11.

01:12:35.820 And more to the point, one thing that gets skipped over often, my understanding is that Ramzi Youssef, the 93 bomber, his, the fifth anniversary of his conviction was September 11th, 2001.

01:12:47.900 And if you know anything about Al-Qaeda, if you study Al-Qaeda, they like anniversaries.

01:12:53.160 And so, to me, I think that for whatever reason, the attacks weren't stopped.

01:12:58.200 The American public wasn't properly notified or warned.

01:13:02.120 Certainly, there were people inside the government that were probably given warnings.

01:13:05.460 I think there's evidence of that.

01:13:07.800 I just wish that-

01:13:08.440 There's proof of that. 0.99

01:13:09.000 Yeah, I just wish that my family had known because when my husband called me, I would have been like, holy shit, this, get the fuck out, like, get out. 0.99

01:13:17.860 This is not a bad pilot, as the president said. 0.99

01:13:21.100 This is it, like, get out of that building, you know.

01:13:24.120 It was already a target.

01:13:25.660 The people that worked in that building knew it was a target.

01:13:29.600 I think it's interesting that the women, many of the women that worked in my husband's firm survived.

01:13:34.400 And I, you know, point to women's intuition. 0.95

01:13:38.660 The women were just like, I'm getting the fuck out of here. 1.00

01:13:40.740 And they survived. 0.97

01:13:42.180 And my husband didn't.

01:13:43.840 And I feel like if the public was made more aware over the summer that, you know, Director Tenet's hair was on fire and that we were in the crosshairs and that there was an impending attack because we had warnings from Germany, Russia, Israel, Jordan, our own intel communities, surveillance of these cells.

01:14:03.660 I think many, many more lives would have been saved.

01:14:06.580 I think, frankly, the attacks would have been 100% prevented.

01:14:11.240 Yeah.

01:14:11.880 So I think it's entirely fair to ask, since they weren't prevented, and since they've been covered up with maximum aggression for 25 years, they're still being covered up.

01:14:23.580 A systemic cover-up.

01:14:24.680 Systemic cover-up.

01:14:25.600 That's correct.

01:14:27.040 Very extensive cover-up.

01:14:29.120 I mean, that's not a guess.

01:14:30.260 So big.

01:14:30.820 I think the cover-up is so big that, like, you couldn't even hold accountable the people that have covered it up.

01:14:35.880 And honestly, the other limited hangout answer to that would be like, well, we were told that we couldn't tell you the truth because it was a matter of national security.

01:14:43.580 Always.

01:14:44.500 And isn't that convenient?

01:14:46.700 Well, sure.

01:14:47.220 But, I mean, this was the greatest violation of national security in my lifetime, so it doesn't really make sense as an argument.

01:14:52.600 But because of all of that.

01:14:54.220 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:14:55.020 Of national security, like the Department of Defense, an hour and a half later, gets attacked and no heads roll.

01:15:00.460 Does that make any sense to you?

01:15:01.800 No.

01:15:03.080 So I think it's totally fair to ask who benefited from it at that point.

01:15:06.680 I think it's totally fair.

01:15:08.680 In fact, I think it's mandatory to ask that question.

01:15:11.020 And there should be prosecutions.

01:15:15.160 100%.

01:15:15.520 How would you, you're a lawyer, how would you do, how would you structure the response now?

01:15:19.420 Yeah, I mean, I love that you want the commission.

01:15:21.980 I think that.

01:15:22.420 I don't know if that's the right answer.

01:15:23.360 I just want people, I want to know the truth.

01:15:25.100 Yeah, and I think that that's a truth commission is a great idea.

01:15:29.140 I think that I would like it tweaked a little bit.

01:15:31.560 I'd like, you know, a special prosecutor with a full-time, fully impaneled grand jury ready to issue indictments.

01:15:40.980 I'd like, you know, the offer of immunity to anyone, immunity and anonymity for anyone who comes forward with information on, you know, the failures and the day-to-day of like what happened.

01:15:54.560 And I think people should go to jail.

01:15:56.540 And I think people that covered it up should be held accountable.

01:15:59.440 And I think the families deserve answers.

01:16:03.140 And I-

01:16:03.880 Who wouldn't want that? 0.71

01:16:05.120 I mean, I think if Donald Trump announced what you just said tomorrow, I'm just imagining the scene on X on social media.

01:16:13.600 Like, who would be opposed to that, do you think?

01:16:16.640 Right.

01:16:17.100 I know exactly who would be opposed to that.

01:16:18.960 I know exactly which commentators would have a fit if he did that.

01:16:23.840 And so what does that tell you?

01:16:25.060 But then explain to me how President Trump put together a joint terrorism task force for the October 7th victims.

01:16:33.480 He put together, Pam Bondi led it, you know, a task force to find everyone who was responsible for October 7th.

01:16:40.440 And yet he ran on America First.

01:16:42.400 And I was like, wait, I'm sorry.

01:16:43.760 Could we get a 9-11 task force?

01:16:45.440 It's going to be the 25th year.

01:16:47.000 For the 25th year, could you appoint a 9-11 task force?

01:16:50.120 We have DOGE.

01:16:50.940 How about DOGE-A, right? 0.68

01:16:52.280 How about the Department of Government Accountability?

01:16:55.020 And why don't you put that together and have the DOGE guys get the access to the information, throw it into AI, whatever they do, and figure out who's responsible and what really happened.

01:17:07.100 Because you know exactly what would happen.

01:17:08.940 What?

01:17:09.420 Yeah.

01:17:09.880 Okay.

01:17:10.900 So, I mean, there would be a lot of people would have to answer really hard questions.

01:17:17.320 Exactly.

01:17:17.860 And I don't, you know, I don't.

01:17:19.100 But I think that the American public is owed that at this point.

01:17:23.000 Yes.

01:17:23.820 And, you know, 3,000 people were massacred and the families are owed the truth and the families are owed, you know, proper compensation for our losses.

01:17:33.480 We have not been properly taken care of.

01:17:35.920 We were railroaded.

01:17:37.240 How's that?

01:17:38.200 Okay.

01:17:38.480 So, now I want to get into the DOJ.

01:17:40.440 Thank you for indulging my, all my many questions.

01:17:42.940 I still want to ask you off camera about the couches.

01:17:44.640 What the hell does that mean?

01:17:46.340 Sorry, I'm not going to push you.

01:17:47.320 I don't know.

01:17:48.160 Yeah.

01:17:48.660 Well, it means something, clearly.

01:17:51.480 Okay.

01:17:52.680 You've had problems with the DOJ.

01:17:54.380 Our DOJ.

01:17:54.820 I want to just say this.

01:17:55.700 Anyone who knows anything about the couches in Building 7 and the planning of explosives should get immediate immunity and anonymity if they come forward with the information.

01:18:04.160 Of course, of course, this is all pretty straightforward stuff.

01:18:11.000 And if there is no one, then no one gets immunity.

01:18:13.340 Not a problem.

01:18:14.380 Right.

01:18:14.860 I never understood, like, what's the problem with finding out what the truth is about anything?

01:18:19.920 I don't understand.

01:18:20.960 And there is a certain persistent chorus of the same people, hysterical people, telling you that you're not allowed to ask this or talk about that.

01:18:30.160 And it's like, why are you saying that?

01:18:31.940 I mean, look, I understand.

01:18:33.840 I'm not for, you know, hounding people, attacking them.

01:18:37.300 I don't think you should slander people.

01:18:38.620 These are the slanderers, by the way, who are insistent, by the way, that you're not asking questions. 1.00

01:18:41.920 But whatever.

01:18:42.820 I get it.

01:18:43.120 Don't be impolite.

01:18:44.200 Don't make a scene for no reason.

01:18:45.920 But in this case, 3,000 people dead, it's totally fair to be like, what the hell?

01:18:51.620 The truth is really important everywhere, all the time.

01:18:55.140 But when 3,000 people are murdered, we're owed an investigation.

01:19:01.520 We're owed.

01:19:02.260 Oh, you radical.

01:19:03.460 No, right?

01:19:04.420 I mean, where is the justice system?

01:19:06.720 Oh, I agree.

01:19:07.500 And it's unbelievable.

01:19:09.360 The stories that I could tell you about how we've been treated by our own Department of Justice.

01:19:14.160 Okay.

01:19:14.460 Would, you know.

01:19:16.680 Then I want you to tell me those stories.

01:19:18.480 And let's take a quick break right now.

01:19:20.120 Midway.

01:19:20.660 So we're back.

01:19:21.160 We took a quick break.

01:19:21.860 I should say it's the last day of October and we're in a northern climate and it's freezing.

01:19:26.660 So I went and put my highly unattractive vest on.

01:19:29.020 That explains the costume change.

01:19:30.540 Anyway, you were on the cusp of explaining your, what you described as mistreatment by the Department of Justice and related agencies and law firms.

01:19:41.320 Can I just give you the two sentence understanding that I have?

01:19:43.840 So the United States has set aside a huge amount of taxpayer money to compensate the victims of terror, all terror attacks.

01:19:51.140 9-11 being, of course, the biggest and most famous of all terror attacks in American history.

01:19:55.120 So I'm a little surprised.

01:19:57.240 And I think that's true, correct?

01:19:58.680 There's a big pile of money, taxpayer money.

01:20:00.660 But you said the victims of 9-11, the spouses, surviving children, have been undercompensated.

01:20:07.820 Like, I'll start, let you go from there.

01:20:11.020 Right.

01:20:11.180 So in 2015, certain members of Congress put together some legislation and created a fund run by the Department of Justice.

01:20:21.480 And the fund was supposed to be funded through terrorist sanctions, predominantly from those who do business with Iran, let's say.

01:20:30.280 Bank Paribas was the first deposit that went into the fund.

01:20:35.560 That's a whole nother story in itself.

01:20:37.460 It's kind of interesting.

01:20:39.280 But suffice it to say, out of a $9 billion fine with Bank Paribas, I think $1.8 billion went to the victims.

01:20:46.700 And the residual money went to the state of New York to build a bridge that ultimately got named after the governor's father.

01:20:56.020 Actually?

01:20:57.060 Actually.

01:20:58.560 I don't know what the Tappan Zee Bridge had to do with terrorism, but I think-

01:21:02.940 Was it ever bombed by Iran?

01:21:04.580 I don't think so.

01:21:05.720 But I do like to make the joke, my daughter went to college in upstate New York.

01:21:10.140 And when I would go over the bridge and pay the toll, I'd be joking that it should be going to the 9-11 widows and children since the money that went towards the bridge reconstruction came from the Paribas money, as I understand it, from reporting, instead of going to victims of terrorism.

01:21:25.480 How can that be?

01:21:27.560 Well, you know, the Department of Justice runs a lot of their sanctions programs, sort of like a slush fund.

01:21:34.520 But at any rate, this fund was created, Bank Paribas put together, like I think $1.8 or $1.9 billion of the first deposit into that fund.

01:21:42.980 The widows and children were excluded from joining that fund and being compensated, even though we were given the right to sue the co-conspirators of the hijackers when we were forced into the Victims Compensation Fund back in 2002, when the government took away our right to sue.

01:22:00.440 We were allowed to sue the terrorists, the co-conspirators of the hijackers, and we did.

01:22:06.720 We were able to get a default judgment, sorry, against Iran, and the widows and kids have Iran judgments. 0.56

01:22:14.180 And we sought to be compensated for those judgments because it was the only way that we could-

01:22:19.200 Iran judgments?

01:22:20.440 Iran judgments.

01:22:21.400 I know not a lot of people know that we have Iran judgments, but- 0.93

01:22:24.580 May I just ask a dumb question?

01:22:25.660 What does Iran have to do with 9-11?

01:22:27.040 Right, so the evidence that was presented to the court for Iran's role in the 9-11 attacks is that Iran cleansed some of the passports of a few of the hijackers when they went through Iran after being in Afghanistan.

01:22:44.520 That evidence was used.

01:22:47.900 Iran doesn't show up in court in the United States.

01:22:50.500 So, I think at this point, probably close to 20,000 9-11 victims have been given copycat judgments off that basic evidence that Iran cleansed these passports.

01:23:03.240 And this is the only way that the widows and children of the 3,000 killed are in any way able to hold terrorists, quote-unquote, accountable.

01:23:11.140 We are supposed to be able to get compensated for our Iran judgments in this government fund, okay?

01:23:18.460 A Department of Justice fund.

01:23:19.900 But just big picture, not to be ornery about it, but like everything we've talked about for the last hour, which is about the event itself and how it happened and what we don't know and who might have benefited from it and who might have paid for it and facilitated it, Iran didn't make an appearance in that conversation.

01:23:35.960 And I've never heard anybody make a case that Iran was actually behind 9-11 in a meaningful way.

01:23:41.300 I would agree with that.

01:23:43.800 But nevertheless, Iran doesn't show up in court and you can get a default judgment and that's what-

01:23:49.100 It just seems like a lot of tragedies in this country are blamed on Iran.

01:23:54.240 I'm not working for Iran. 0.99

01:23:55.720 I'm not that sympathetic to Iran.

01:23:57.280 I'm not Iranian.

01:23:58.560 But I just noticed this, that Trump gets shot in Butler.

01:24:02.140 It was Iran. 0.80

01:24:02.920 Right.

01:24:03.280 Right.

01:24:03.520 It's always Iran and it does feel like- 0.99

01:24:06.160 A convenient narrative.

01:24:07.280 Well, yes.

01:24:08.720 Yeah.

01:24:09.060 Yes.

01:24:09.540 Okay.

01:24:09.800 I just want to say that.

01:24:10.300 Well, listen, you know, pragmatically speaking, when you're a widow and it's the only judgment you can get-

01:24:15.520 I get it.

01:24:16.040 I get it.

01:24:16.440 You know-

01:24:16.980 But that's not a decision you made anyway, right?

01:24:18.860 I mean, you didn't decide to go after Iran.

01:24:20.720 No, not at all.

01:24:22.040 I wanted to go after the U.S. government and their failures because I didn't look to Iran or Saudi Arabia or any other foreign government to protect my husband and my family on the morning of September 11th.

01:24:33.320 Good point.

01:24:33.720 I looked to the United States government because I'm an American citizen and the attacks happened here.

01:24:38.160 So, at any rate, we were able to get these Iran judgments, I think at this point, like 20,000 people.

01:24:43.780 You know, that's including the decedent's families, the widows and the kids, and the decedent's siblings, parents, and then all of the inhalation injury people at Ground Zero who breathed the bad air.

01:24:57.920 They're also holding Iran accountable. 0.88

01:25:00.440 That ultimately will be about 70,000 people seeking to be compensated in this government fund.

01:25:06.820 Well, the problem with the government fund is that compensating 9-11 victims gets in the way of the other victims that want to be compensated.

01:25:17.980 And so, back in 2008 and then a little bit before that in some other legislation, things were rewritten for American military to be able to sue the enemy.

01:25:29.180 So, you have victims from the embassy bombings in the late 80s, you have Iran hostages that aren't allowed to have judgments because a part of the Alger Accords was that they weren't allowed to sue Iran, but they're given just a flat number that they're allowed to be paid in this government fund.

01:25:47.460 They're a victim of state-sponsored terrorism, the Iran hostages. 0.59

01:25:50.580 The embassy bombing in Beirut victims, and then the Khobar Tower victims, that was a bombing in Saudi Arabia.

01:26:00.300 And then you have the U.S.'s coal families, also victims of state-sponsored terrorism, and the East African embassy bombing families.

01:26:07.480 These are all military or foreign service families that, because the law was rewritten, they are allowed to get judgments against Iran for Iran's participation in those attacks.

01:26:19.900 And so, those victims have really powerful lawyers.

01:26:23.300 They were the ones that reportedly created this government fund that's run by the Department of Justice.

01:26:28.140 And they came up with the idea that we're going to fund the fund from terrorist sanctions.

01:26:33.280 And what does that mean?

01:26:34.320 Well, that means that when the U.S. government gets information that a company, a ship, you know, a tanker is doing business and buying Iranian oil, that tanker or that company gets sanctioned.

01:26:47.780 The Department of Justice goes after those entities, and they fine them.

01:26:52.540 You know, first they have a case, and then they, you know, usually typically settle the case for billions of dollars.

01:26:58.400 And that, some of that money is supposed to go into this fund to pay victims.

01:27:02.300 This is why we never pull back sanctions, even when they're counterproductive, because it's a scam that people are getting rich from.

01:27:08.060 Well, right.

01:27:09.300 But so, it was designed...

01:27:10.300 Sorry, I had to say that.

01:27:11.280 Well, so, up front, it's being sold as a fund to pay victims.

01:27:15.780 Turns out, many of the military families had attorneys who encouraged the families to sell their judgments to third-party investors' hedge funds.

01:27:25.220 I know all of this because...

01:27:26.740 What?

01:27:27.480 Right.

01:27:28.040 I know all of this because the SEC happened to investigate one of the hedge funds.

01:27:32.480 And so, I read all of the SEC files, thousands of pages.

01:27:37.620 And so, that's how I know this information.

01:27:39.620 I'm basing it all on these SEC files of this investigation.

01:27:42.760 So, at any point, these victims that were supposed to be the ones getting compensated in this fund, run by the Department of Justice, sold their judgments.

01:27:50.920 Not all of them, but like a lot of them.

01:27:53.560 They're very unsophisticated military families.

01:27:55.860 This, you know, hedge fund guy comes in and says, listen, you've got a judgment for $2 million.

01:27:59.860 I'll give you $400,000 right now.

01:28:01.580 They're sitting at the kitchen table in the middle of Iowa.

01:28:04.580 I'll write you a check.

01:28:05.680 So, these families sell the judgments because they're like, first of all, their young son or daughter was in the military.

01:28:11.680 They never thought that they could sue the enemy, right?

01:28:14.080 Because you're not supposed to be able to do that if you serve in the military.

01:28:17.060 You don't sue the enemy.

01:28:18.760 But the special law was written.

01:28:20.780 And so, they were just happy to get the $400,000, right?

01:28:23.500 Like, they're sort of astounded.

01:28:24.900 So, they take the money.

01:28:27.060 The hedge fund then owns the right to compensation of the judgment.

01:28:30.260 No way.

01:28:30.880 So, it's like a payday loan.

01:28:32.520 We'll give you a portion of your check.

01:28:34.200 Yeah.

01:28:34.280 Exactly.

01:28:34.640 And they, in my opinion, took advantage of the military families, which I think is disgusting, okay?

01:28:42.320 But these arrangements, according to the SEC documents, were put together by the lawyers of the people.

01:28:48.420 So, the lawyers brought in the hedge funds, okay?

01:28:50.720 And so, the same lawyers create, reportedly, from what I can understand, in my opinion, I'm being very careful, created this fund to be run by the Department of Justice, who, you know, treats their, you know, fines and sanctions and prosecutions sort of like as a slush fund.

01:29:05.820 You know, the Department of Justice wields power when they send money to local districts, to police departments, to buy vests, what have you.

01:29:13.080 They wield a lot of power that way.

01:29:14.860 It's frankly how the money ended up, you know, at the Tappan Zee Bridge, cutting deals with, you know, the governor at the time.

01:29:22.600 Nevertheless, these hedge funds buy the rights to the compensation, and they're actually the ones in this fund getting paid.

01:29:29.820 Initially, the widows and children from 9-11 weren't allowed in the fund.

01:29:33.880 This is such a perfect metaphor for modern America.

01:29:36.120 Well.

01:29:36.440 There's a victims of terrorism fund, but the actual beneficiaries are, wait for it, hedge funds.

01:29:41.200 Right.

01:29:41.560 Exactly.

01:29:42.100 And can you guess what senator wrote the legislation to put this together?

01:29:45.800 I can't imagine.

01:29:46.400 Well, which senator from the state of New Jersey is in prison right now?

01:29:49.020 I would say Mr. Robert Menendez.

01:29:50.840 That is correct.

01:29:51.880 Senator Menendez was the person who just, ironically enough, happened to write a lot of pieces of legislation that, you know, maximized the profits to the offshore hedge funds that had purchased these judgments.

01:30:03.920 Oh, they're offshore hedge funds?

01:30:05.200 Oh, yeah.

01:30:05.440 They're in the Cayman Islands.

01:30:06.760 Oh, come on. 0.87

01:30:09.080 Well, it's true.

01:30:10.200 And so what gets really bad is that the widows and kids aren't allowed into the fund because, quote unquote, there's just too many of you and that you'll take all the money, right?

01:30:19.660 And the hedge funds won't be enough for the hedge funds.

01:30:21.840 Well, the problem is in the actual purchase agreements, again, according to the SEC documents, the underlying purchase agreements of the Iranian judgments of these military families, the second line of collateral security guaranteeing the rate of return between 13 and I think 62 percent is this fund that was created by the Department of Justice.

01:30:42.300 What?

01:30:42.620 It was guaranteeing the profits to the hedge funds.

01:30:45.500 It was the second.

01:30:46.380 The fund is a guarantee?

01:30:48.260 The government fund, yes.

01:30:49.280 The third line of collateral security, according to the SEC documents, is the law firm's receivables.

01:30:56.240 So that means if the fund doesn't churn and burn and provide that profit, then the lawyers' receivables get raided so that the hedge fund investors make their return.

01:31:06.000 So you can see there that there's an impetus, a drive for the attorneys not to want that third line to get tapped.

01:31:13.360 They want the money to come from the fund because then it's not coming out of the attorney's pocket, right?

01:31:17.740 So that's why the widows and kids, in my opinion, were not allowed to go into this fund and be compensated for our Iran judgments, even though we are the nation's largest group of victims of terrorism, the 9-11 widows and kids.

01:31:30.580 We're blocked in this fund.

01:31:32.260 We're not allowed in.

01:31:33.440 It takes us three years to get the widows and kids in. 0.94

01:31:36.240 We get into the fund, and the law is written by Senator Menendez with the support of Senator Schumer and others so that the money is split in a way that continues to maximize the profits to the hedge fund, okay?

01:31:50.260 Then, two years later, because the widows and kids were wrongfully excluded from being compensated in this fund in 2015, we were owed a catch-up payment.

01:32:02.280 I came up with the name.

01:32:03.340 It was a lump sum catch-up payment.

01:32:04.540 I'm like, you wrongfully excluded us.

01:32:06.420 This was really wrong.

01:32:07.660 We're owed back compensation, okay?

01:32:10.320 We go, takes us two years to get that through Congress, okay?

01:32:14.280 Anyway, we get there.

01:32:15.880 We get almost a unanimous vote in the House.

01:32:18.300 It goes over to the Senate, and the bill gets hijacked, and I use that word purposely.

01:32:22.300 It got hijacked.

01:32:23.200 It got hijacked by that same group of lawyers and plaintiffs who had sold their judgments to the hedge fund, and out of nowhere, totally unwarranted, they asked to get this lump sum payment for themselves, even though they were never wrongfully excluded from the fund.

01:32:41.980 They were never owed back payments from the fund.

01:32:44.260 They were allowed to get what's called the Beirut-Kobar catch-up payment, worth $3 billion.

01:32:49.580 The $3 billion to pay, ultimately, in my opinion, some of these hedge funds in the Cayman Islands, and also some victims, too, that didn't sell their judgments, right, comes from U.S. taxpayer dollars.

01:33:03.020 $3 billion.

01:33:03.820 Come on.

01:33:05.040 So, it gets worse.

01:33:06.240 So, you believe that some of that money actually went to hedge funds in the Cayman Islands?

01:33:09.180 I believe that it's definitely possible because the SEC documents talk about this particular group of victims getting, you know, approached to sell their judgments.

01:33:18.880 The SEC talks about the contractual agreements of the sale of the judgments.

01:33:22.620 And when you look at the numbers, sometimes, like, I'm really good at, like, seeing patterns and then, like, looking at evidence and then undoing it and, like, going back and trying to figure out things.

01:33:33.100 It just so happens that the groups that are mentioned in the SEC documents happen to be the highest paid groups of victims of terrorism, which, first off, makes no sense because they're military.

01:33:44.200 And military live on kind of, like, humble economic, like, their economic damages are very small as compared to civilians who were working on Wall Street on 9-11.

01:33:53.600 Because damages are calculated on the basis of income you didn't receive.

01:33:57.000 Economic loss, right, lost wages.

01:33:59.080 And so, oddly enough, these military, as compared to the 9-11 civilian widows and children killed on U.S. shores, okay, not serving overseas, not in hostile territory, civilians killed in America at work, innocent civilians, have received less compensation in this fund than these groups who just happen to also have this exposure to these third-party investors and hedge funds.

01:34:23.440 Okay?

01:34:24.640 So, the legislation gets written.

01:34:27.080 They're given $3 billion of U.S. taxpayer money to pay this payment that's totally unwarranted, came out of nowhere, was not justified.

01:34:35.020 Senator Menendez wrote the legislation, wrote a loophole in the legislation saying that, quote, successors in interest thereof can be compensated this money from the U.S. taxpayers.

01:34:46.320 I believe the successors in interest thereof are the third-party investors slash hedge funds.

01:34:50.820 Can you imagine investing in a victims of terrorism fund? 0.56

01:34:54.160 It's disgusting.

01:34:54.780 Well, it's, do you have any idea? 0.97

01:34:56.400 You're literally profiting from murder and terrorism.

01:34:58.680 And you're using a Department of Justice government fund that is being billed and sold to members of Congress as a victims fund to compensate victims of terrorism with restitution, okay?

01:35:11.880 And it's being, you know, exploited and it's being used as like a profit model, an investment vehicle for third-party investors and hedge funds.

01:35:23.180 Do we have any idea the identity of these hedge fund managers or investors?

01:35:27.840 No, no.

01:35:31.520 But I will tell you this, I was able to read in the SEC documents some of the investor groups that were approached by the hedge fund guy from New Jersey.

01:35:41.120 And I cross-referenced those with open secrets and donations, contributions to members of Congress.

01:35:46.900 And I believe there is a pattern there, which is why we asked-

01:35:49.960 How did Menendez do in that group?

01:35:51.940 Was he pretty popular?

01:35:52.800 I'll tell you this, that in the SEC documents, there's a deposition of one of the attorneys and there's a series of depositions and the initials RM are in the documents.

01:36:03.100 And Senator Menendez passed legislation in 2012 that was also signed off on by President Obama to make the first round of payments to this group that had sold their judgments, many of whom had sold their judgments to the hedge funds.

01:36:16.500 So Senator Menendez's hands are all over this.

01:36:18.660 You know, we turned to Congress.

01:36:19.980 We said, could you just investigate?

01:36:21.660 Could you investigate the anti-terrorism legislation done by Senator Menendez?

01:36:25.720 He's in jail now.

01:36:27.020 Like, it deserves a look-see.

01:36:29.340 No one would do it.

01:36:30.900 This fund that's had $9 billion, approximately $9 billion flown through it since 2016, has never had one hearing.

01:36:39.540 We have asked repeatedly, very loudly for hearings.

01:36:43.220 We've begged for hearings.

01:36:44.680 We can't get hearings on this.

01:36:46.260 With all of this information, we met with the chief of the money laundering asset recovery section at the Department of Justice, the person who's in charge, really ultimately over this fund.

01:36:58.160 And we're having this meeting and we're like, it's really unfair.

01:37:01.320 The governing statute says that we're supposed to be treated fairly and equitably.

01:37:05.520 It's a United States Victims of Terrorism Fund.

01:37:10.380 In the United States of America, everyone's supposed to be treated equally.

01:37:13.880 Is there a reason why 9-11 widows and children, this nation's largest group of victims of terrorism, are receiving anywhere from 6 to 66 times less percentage value for our judgments?

01:37:26.300 Is there a reason for that?

01:37:28.260 And she just was like, well, you know, there's, you know, we don't really have, and Congress tells us, and this and that.

01:37:33.920 Went to Senator Schumer, spoke to his counsel.

01:37:36.720 She just said, well, there's just too many of you to treat you fairly.

01:37:40.020 There's too many of you to have equal justice.

01:37:42.700 You know, the words on the Supreme Court when you walk in the door is equal justice under the law for all.

01:37:48.300 Why not take it out of our foreign aid budget?

01:37:50.600 Well, that's a good question.

01:37:53.820 I will tell you this, that some victims of terrorism in 2020 were paid out of the State Department's defense special budget.

01:38:04.100 And maybe or maybe not, those guys had some third-party investors that ultimately got that money.

01:38:09.060 Who were they, and why were they paid by the State Department?

01:38:11.240 That was the East African Embassy bombing victims and the USS Cole victims.

01:38:15.020 The same group of lawyers represent, there's like a cross-pollination of the lawyers.

01:38:18.700 It's like a little cabal of lawyers that work for these victims groups.

01:38:21.900 They're also the same group of lawyers, so they not only created this fund, they've also really played a very strong hand in rewriting anti-terrorism laws in the United States from 1990 on forward.

01:38:33.400 And ironically, all of these laws are always billed after 9-11 as 9-11, you know, for the 9-11 families.

01:38:39.820 But what's weird is that the 9-11 families never benefit or get anything out of these laws.

01:38:44.700 In fact, we get re-victimized.

01:38:48.040 It's kind of incredible.

01:38:49.760 Wait, so now we're-

01:38:51.020 Let me just say this.

01:38:51.580 Yes.

01:38:51.860 So we met with DOJ, and we really thought maybe, maybe, you know, this chief person of this department doesn't know about these hedge funds.

01:39:01.260 Like, we need to alert her, right?

01:39:02.460 Like, we need to tell her.

01:39:03.800 And she just got really funny at the end of the meeting.

01:39:06.600 We were like, well, we wanted to talk to you about the hedge funds because the statute says that you need to be a natural person to be compensated in the fund.

01:39:14.020 And even though Senator Menendez passed legislation that allows successors and interests thereof to get compensated, we think it's kind of unseemly.

01:39:22.240 And, you know, we're not being treated fairly, and we shouldn't be penalized because there's so many of us.

01:39:27.780 Like, that was one of my talking points.

01:39:28.980 I was like, as someone who fought for the 9-11 commission, it's not our fault that there's so many of us.

01:39:34.120 It's the United States government's fault because the United States government didn't prevent the attacks and didn't mitigate any of the damage on the day of 9-11.

01:39:42.040 So you're punishing us for our government's failure, and there being 3,000 victims.

01:39:47.760 That's why we can't be compensated fairly and in alignment with the law and with all of these other victims.

01:39:53.620 You can't treat us fairly because there's just too many of us.

01:39:56.540 And so we say this to this chief of MLRs, and she just got funny.

01:40:02.220 She's like, well, no one briefed me that you were going to bring up the hedge funds.

01:40:04.780 I'm not prepared to discuss it.

01:40:06.520 And that was the end of that.

01:40:08.360 And so I just think that the American public should know that this is the kind of stuff that goes on.

01:40:13.820 And I'd really like to know why, you know, one of the laws that's currently they're trying to get passed right now is backed by the ADL.

01:40:23.420 It was written by the ADL, reportedly.

01:40:25.700 The ADL?

01:40:26.960 The ADL.

01:40:27.580 What do they have to do with this?

01:40:28.580 That's what I want to know.

01:40:29.780 I want to know why the ADL is involving itself in anti-terrorism laws.

01:40:35.380 I want to know why October 7th victims are in my Congress, lobbying Congress and writing legislation that harms the rights of 9-11 widows and children.

01:40:45.620 I'm not asking.

01:40:46.240 What does that mean?

01:40:47.100 How does that, I don't know why they're writing legislation in the first place, but since they are.

01:40:52.320 I'm saying they don't, Hamas did the October 7th attacks.

01:40:56.700 These individuals don't even have Iran judgments and they're writing legislation to change this fund, this government fund that's supposed to be for American victims of terrorism.

01:41:06.580 And that's fine.

01:41:07.740 Wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:41:08.880 But why are you in my Congress and why are you?

01:41:10.460 Foreigners will get some of this money now? 0.83

01:41:12.420 Yeah.

01:41:12.880 I mean, they're, well, they're dual citizens and they're trying to expand the law so that they're very involved.

01:41:20.840 I don't know.

01:41:21.080 Were the U.S. government is going to pay victims of a terror attack in a foreign country that has nothing to do with, you know, we're not responsible for October 7th that I know of.

01:41:32.660 Right.

01:41:33.120 But they're using their, they're trying to get an Iran judgment for those attacks to say that Iran underwrote Hamas.

01:41:40.000 And then they're going to try to get paid in this government fund that was designed for United States victims of terrorism.

01:41:48.280 Actually?

01:41:49.620 Actually.

01:41:50.240 That's an outrage.

01:41:51.420 Well, I think what's outrageous is that we know that they tried to once again amend the governing statute of this fund.

01:41:58.780 And they tried to do it in a way that really was going to financially harm the widows and children.

01:42:03.220 And we're not seeking special treatment.

01:42:05.640 We just want to be treated fairly.

01:42:07.460 But I just can't get past this.

01:42:09.300 What, I mean, you know, October 7th bad, as I've said many times.

01:42:13.660 Clearly, but you know what?

01:42:14.400 Israel already took care of them. 0.78

01:42:15.840 But also, what does that have to do with us?

01:42:17.600 Israel has a very well-developed system for victims of terrorism and they've been taken care of in Israel.

01:42:21.760 And my question is, why aren't they going to their own Congress?

01:42:25.000 I don't know much about Israel's Congress or their laws, but like, why aren't they in Israel lobbying their Congress?

01:42:31.260 Why aren't they in Israel using Israel's judicial system?

01:42:33.900 How would the United States taxpayer pay the victims of October 7th?

01:42:39.860 I mean, that's a really good question.

01:42:41.300 And again, the lawyers behind these groups would come forward.

01:42:44.560 The ADL would probably say, well, it's not the taxpayers.

01:42:47.420 You know, they're using sanctions, fines and money.

01:42:49.220 What does it have to do with us?

01:42:50.740 That's what I would question.

01:42:52.640 I don't understand why people that go overseas and get killed on buses, even if they're American citizens, why they're over, you know, in the United States.

01:43:01.080 And again, if you want to be compensated, that fine, but don't harm the rights of the widows and kids.

01:43:06.800 Why is it more important to pay people that are injured overseas on buses or in military installations or as foreign service members to pay them six to 66 times more a percentage when we live in the United States of America and every person is supposed to be treated equal under the law?

01:43:25.760 Yeah, well, that's clearly not happening.

01:43:28.240 This is, yeah, and yeah, this is why people's attitudes are changing in a way that's.

01:43:33.580 And I would like to say that the lawyers that were that third line of collateral security combined, all of the lawyers, the 9-11 and the non-9-11 lawyers, they've made approximately $2 billion.

01:43:45.900 The lawyers?

01:43:46.680 Yeah, from the fund. 0.56

01:43:49.500 And so obviously I'm not stupid.

01:43:51.580 Like I know some of that money gets, you know, reshuffled around and made into contributions to members of Congress to reward them for their efforts in writing legislation.

01:44:00.640 But I think $2 billion to plaintiff's attorneys is kind of unseemly.

01:44:05.940 In a terror victim?

01:44:07.320 In a victim's fund that's supposed to be for victims.

01:44:10.900 Why haven't I heard any of this before?

01:44:13.020 Why haven't you heard the truth about 9-11 before?

01:44:17.120 Well, that's fair.

01:44:18.780 Thank you for having me on.

01:44:19.760 Oh my gosh, it's been, it's been a delight.

01:44:22.080 I always knew I would like you if I met you and I really do.

01:44:25.280 No, I mean it.

01:44:25.960 Now here I'm bragging about my good sense about people, but I do have a good sense of people and I was right.

01:44:30.880 So you said something, you've said so many things.

01:44:32.640 I'm just trying to make sure I don't miss anything.

01:44:34.080 You said a few moments ago that our terror laws have been completely rewritten since the 90s by this same group of rapacious lawyers.

01:44:43.020 How, how have they changed?

01:44:45.940 And what are the implications of that?

01:44:46.980 What are you talking about exactly?

01:44:48.400 You know, when you go back and do a study on all of the anti-terrorism laws, what you find is that there's been a whole restructuring and it's a system that doesn't,

01:44:59.280 it looks on the outside like it's serving the victims, but what it's really doing is it's broadening a base and allowing for almost innumerable amount of people to sue for a terrorist attack, right?

01:45:14.380 And I confronted counsel of one of the more prominent members of the Senate and I said, you know, you guys wrote this law and it opens the courthouse doors to so many people.

01:45:24.960 You're harming the rights of the direct heirs, of the actual widows and children of people killed.

01:45:29.860 And like, why would you do that?

01:45:32.060 Why didn't you hold a hearing on the ramifications of how you're rewriting this law?

01:45:36.620 Why didn't you have widows and kids testify as to how they're being harmed and their rights are being watered down? 1.00

01:45:42.380 And the guy turned to me and said, you know, we just want to open the courthouse doors to as many people as possibly because that serves anti-terrorism policy.

01:45:51.540 And I said, it doesn't really serve anti-terrorism policy.

01:45:55.560 And I said, you're not really serving the heirs of the people killed properly.

01:46:00.920 And I said, and you're giving an awful lot of deference to judges and you're assuming that judges are going to police a docket and police a case and a system.

01:46:10.800 And I said, the judges aren't doing it because the judges in many cases are not really good judges.

01:46:16.000 And they're allowing thousands and thousands and thousands of people to enter litigation.

01:46:21.160 And what that does is twofold.

01:46:22.680 Number one, it blocks and, you know, log jams the actual case itself and the case can never resolve.

01:46:30.500 Where there is one upside when a case doesn't resolve, you're suing a defendant and the case goes on and on and on for two decades, right?

01:46:36.880 What happens is, in some people's minds, I read a book on this, is that the actual litigation process itself ties up certain entities that certain other entities believe fund terrorists because they're so busy paying lawyers and being stuck in court, they're not funneling money to terrorists.

01:46:54.940 Well, that's a really noble idea, except for the fact that it's a huge disservice to the victims who are entitled to have speedy justice for the harm that they've suffered, right?

01:47:02.900 You have litigation that lasts two decades, widows and children are being disserved by that because we're owed immediate justice.

01:47:10.300 We're not owed justice a quarter of a century later.

01:47:13.040 The second thing that it does is it waters down the rights of the people under the law who are the most prioritized because you're letting in all of these other people.

01:47:22.260 What actually ends up happening when you open the door and you let all those people in is that lawyers make more money.

01:47:28.600 And so you have a situation where it's not the victims that are being protected by these laws that are getting rewritten.

01:47:36.160 It's actually that, you know, lawyers and this sort of scheme that's come out of anti-terrorism laws and these funds that get created and these deals that get struck between lawyers and members of the Justice Department, the Treasury Department, the State Department, certain foreign governments.

01:47:58.140 It ends up becoming sort of like a scheme and the real victims of terrorism, like the 9-11 widows and kids who are this nation's largest group are re-victimized.

01:48:10.040 And that's just a fact.

01:48:12.040 And all I ask is for there to be a very hard look-see, if you want to call it, into these anti-terrorism laws, into this fund that is being run right now that is, in my opinion, you know, a Ponzi scheme on top of a shell game that's really re-victimizing the 9-11 widows and kids.

01:48:32.200 Honestly, if I could send one message to President Trump, I would beg him to give closure and peace to the thousands of widows and kids.

01:48:41.340 We've waited 24 years to have a modicum of justice.

01:48:45.540 We've been abandoned by this country.

01:48:49.080 We were abandoned by our Department of Justice.

01:48:51.780 Our husbands' lives have been exploited, used to go to war in Iraq based on lies, used to roll in privacy rights, to expand the patriota, all of it.

01:49:04.840 We've been exploited and we've been left behind.

01:49:08.000 And I would just ask for President Trump to recognize that and appreciate it and just deliver closure and peace to us.

01:49:15.640 I think that there's a way forward for that.

01:49:17.600 And if there's ever been a president that would be able to stand apart from the intelligence community and to have the courage to do that, I think it would be President Trump.

01:49:27.100 And I know he didn't get the Nobel Peace Prize or appointed or nominated for his role in the Gaza peace process.

01:49:35.040 I think if he resolved 9-11 and provided closure to the widows and kids, he would probably be nominated and win that prize.

01:49:44.420 He would certainly get my vote.

01:49:45.720 So, Kristen Breitweiser, that was an amazing conversation.

01:49:50.140 Thanks.

01:49:50.620 Makes me emotional.

01:49:51.500 Thank you so much for taking the time to do this.

01:49:53.800 Thank you for giving me the opportunity.

01:49:54.560 Oh my gosh.

01:49:55.380 Come back anytime.

01:49:56.420 I really appreciate it.

01:49:57.340 And the widows and kids appreciate it.

01:49:58.780 So, thank you.

01:49:59.340 Thank you.

01:50:03.840 We've got a new website we hope you will visit.

01:50:06.060 It's called newcommissionnow.com.

01:50:09.520 And it refers to a new 9-11 commission.

01:50:12.540 So, we spent months putting together our 9-11 documentary series.

01:50:16.680 And if there's one thing we learned, it's that, in fact, there was foreknowledge of the attacks.

01:50:23.880 People knew.

01:50:25.260 The American public deserves to know.

01:50:27.360 We're shocked, actually, to learn that, to have that confirmed.

01:50:29.600 But it's true.

01:50:30.080 The evidence is overwhelming.

01:50:31.420 The CIA, for example, knew the hijackers were here in the United States.

01:50:34.740 They knew they were planning an act of terror.

01:50:36.680 In his passport, there's a visa to go to the United States of America.

01:50:41.360 A foreign national was caught celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote, to document the event.

01:50:49.340 How did he know there would be an event to document in the first place?

01:50:51.720 Because he had foreknowledge.

01:50:52.880 And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor, shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on 9-11, as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks.

01:51:07.120 They made money on the 9-11 attacks because they knew they were coming.

01:51:12.000 Who did that? 0.91

01:51:13.060 You have to look at the evidence.

01:51:15.280 The U.S. government learned the name of that investor, but never released it.

01:51:19.920 Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this, but there isn't, actually.

01:51:25.600 And by the way, it doesn't matter whether there is or not.

01:51:28.000 The public deserves to know what the hell that was.

01:51:31.540 How did people know ahead of time why was no one ever punished for it?

01:51:35.320 9-11 Commission, the original one, was a fraud.

01:51:38.580 It was fake.

01:51:40.240 Its conclusions were written before the investigation.

01:51:42.900 That's true.

01:51:43.860 And it's outrageous.

01:51:45.300 This country needs a new 9-11 Commission, 1.00

01:51:48.200 one that actually tells the truth that tries to get to the bottom of the story.

01:51:52.560 We can't just move on like nothing happened.

01:51:55.300 9-11 Commission is a cover.

01:51:58.000 Something did happen.

01:51:59.900 We need to force a new investigation into 9-11 almost 25 years later.

01:52:05.420 Sorry, justice demands it.

01:52:07.560 And if you want that, go to newcommissionnow.com to add your name to our petition.

01:52:13.320 We're not getting paid for this.

01:52:14.340 We're doing this because we really mean it.

01:52:16.400 Newcommissionnow.com.

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The Tucker Carlson Show - November 21, 2025

Kristen Breitweiser： 9-11 Cover-Ups, Building 7, and the Billion-Dollar Scam to Steal From Victims

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