The Tucker Carlson Show - Leaked Police Interrogation Footage of Netanyahu, and How He Cowers Behind War to Keep Power

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00:00:30.000 Alex Kivney, thank you very much for doing this.

00:00:33.980 So for all the years that Benjamin Netanyahu has been in the American media,

00:00:40.420 I think there's very little sense in the U.S. about his domestic troubles in Israel.

00:00:47.120 We keep hearing he's been charged and the President of the United States keeps saying he needs to be pardoned.

00:00:52.720 You've made this documentary that explains what is at the core of this controversy.

00:00:57.940 Like, what are the charges?

00:00:58.880 What is he accused of doing?

00:00:59.760 Did he do it? So I'm going to stand back and just let you, if you would, outline what Benjamin Netanyahu has been accused of doing.

00:01:09.020 Well, roughly speaking, you'd say it was bribery or you'd say it was corruption.

00:01:15.240 I mean, and I can detail the charges.

00:01:18.880 This is a film that I produced and it was directed by Alexis Bloom.

00:01:22.140 And back in 2023, I got a strange message on Signal from somebody who said that they had all of the police interrogation videos from the Benjamin Netanyahu investigation.

00:01:36.940 And they had been investigating Netanyahu since 2016 for charges of corruption, that is to say, trading on his position as prime minister to get money in all sorts of favors, jewelry for his wife, very expensive Cuban cigars,

00:01:56.900 hundreds of millions of dollars in forgiveness of certain loans in order to be able to get

00:02:07.420 favorable coverage on a news website called Walla. So it was a pretty interesting case,

00:02:14.400 and it went from the very small, meaning very expensive Cuban cigars from a rather famous

00:02:21.680 movie producer named Arnon Milchan to something very big, which is effectively a $250 million

00:02:28.200 financial arrangement in exchange for coverage, good coverage for Netanyahu. So it was a pretty

00:02:36.000 big deal. So you got the tapes. Let me just ask, to the extent you can say, where did they come

00:02:44.240 from? I can't say where they came from. I can't say anything about the source. But what I can

00:02:51.520 say is we got over a thousand hours of tapes. And these were interviews with Netanyahu himself

00:02:57.160 by the police, also Netanyahu's wife, Sarah, his son, Yair, also with a number of key people close

00:03:03.880 to Netanyahu, for example, near Hefetz, his former head of communications. Sheldon Adelson,

00:03:10.180 who we know in this country as a billionaire, now deceased, his wife, Miriam Adelson,

00:03:16.060 Arnon Milchan, a famous Israeli businessman, arms dealer, who also became a very famous

00:03:21.440 a motion picture producer. So it was a kind of an extraordinary array of evidence. And while

00:03:29.840 some of this evidence had been published in Israel in written form, nobody had seen the tapes. And

00:03:36.080 the tapes are very revealing, particularly for Netanyahu, because Netanyahu tries to cultivate

00:03:40.700 this image of the grand vizier, the great statesman of Israel. Here you see a rather

00:03:47.620 petty corrupt man desperately lying to save his skin and and his wife who is a deeply 0.89

00:03:54.420 entitled woman you know trying to claim that so what if we got stuff i mean we deserve it because 1.00

00:04:01.220 we're doing so much for for the nation and for the world and his son yair who is also extremely

00:04:07.200 entitled screaming at the police yelling you know you're like the the stasi so it was an illuminating 1.00

00:04:13.600 look at the actual character behind the facade, sort of like that moment in The Wizard of

00:04:19.780 Oz where, you know, Toto pulls back the curtain and the wizard says, please pay no attention.

00:04:26.920 And it was really revealing.

00:04:28.340 If you can, and I think people watching this will watch the film, but I'm interested in

00:04:34.400 your take, having watched a thousand hours of this, what is it, can you go more deeply

00:04:39.260 into what do you think it reveals about the prime minister and his character?

00:04:42.520 Well, I think it reveals, I think, a kind of deep-seated corruption, a willingness to do almost anything to save his skin.

00:04:51.220 I think that he became possessed after the election in 2015 of a sense of enormous arrogance, that he was now the man.

00:05:01.440 Because he came back from what seemed to be a defeat to an enormous victory, and now he had this sense of entitlement.

00:05:10.880 Interestingly, then he began to, you know, cash in on that entitlement and he was caught.

00:05:19.740 But what happened then was that rather, you know, as he heard the sound of the possibility of the jail door slamming shut on him, he began to start to do things that really took Israel in a very dark direction.

00:05:36.840 The first thing he tried to do was to essentially fix the Department of Justice.

00:05:46.680 He tried to engage in a series of—this is before October 7th—he tried to engage in a series of reforms of the judicial system, which would weaken the power of the judiciary in Israel.

00:06:01.580 most likely because that would undermine the case against him that's the most direct

00:06:09.760 likely outcome but the other thing was that by this time he had formed a government with an

00:06:14.900 extremely right-wing coalition with a guy named um ben gavir who is a head of national security

00:06:21.200 and a guy named smotrick who's a is a head of the um of finance they are extremely right-wing

00:06:27.880 extremely anti-Palestinian and their designs were to expand illegal settlements in the West Bank

00:06:34.960 and in some cases well well it was already a dire situation for Palestinians on the West Bank

00:06:41.500 nevertheless there would be judicial orders which would sometimes get in the way of that that was

00:06:46.380 another aspect of this well when Netanyahu tried to fix the judiciary the country rose up and it

00:06:54.060 was in a huge uproar over these changes, which were fundamentally undermining Israel's democracy.

00:07:02.940 Not too long after, of course, there was the terrible attack by Hamas on October 7th, which shocked Israel.

00:07:14.760 um what people began to learn was that for years netanyahu again i think

00:07:22.420 as part of the way he sees the world and as part of a kind of more generalized sense of corruption

00:07:28.880 had been trying to modulate the relationship with hamas and indeed had been allowing millions and

00:07:35.120 millions of dollars to flow to hamas from qatar um sometimes in bags of cash traveling through

00:07:42.200 Israel. And the reason he was doing that was to undermine the Palestinian authority on the West 0.66

00:07:48.960 Bank in order to be able to allow for his right-wing coalition to get more and more territory

00:07:56.220 via settlement. So all sorts of strange, corrupt deals were happening. But then I think that post

00:08:02.540 10-7, which was a terrible moment, I don't want to minimize it in any way, it was a horrific attack,

00:08:11.940 And we show some of that attack in the film.

00:08:14.520 But he then launched an attack on Gaza, which was so beyond any sense of proportionality.

00:08:24.420 Now we have at least over 75,000 people dead.

00:08:27.300 Of course, now we have an Iran war and a Lebanon war and so forth and so on.

00:08:30.480 But one of the goals, I'm convinced, and not me, but all of the witnesses who are, you know, very reputable members of the security establishment in Israel,

00:08:41.000 in the film, indicate that part of the enduring ferocity, savagery of the war was due to

00:08:53.500 becoming a wartime president who could then not be prosecuted or successfully prosecuted

00:09:01.300 for the crimes he had committed. The trial, not only the investigation, but now there's

00:09:07.660 been a trial. The trial is still ongoing. This is 10 years after the investigation started. So

00:09:12.760 long as he's the commander in chief and he's waging war, how dare you attack the president?

00:09:18.780 So in a way, this kind of venal personal corruption that starts with cigars and pink

00:09:25.820 champagne for which they had code names, you know, and then evolves into corrupt deals relating to

00:09:33.760 media becomes a mechanism by which slowly but surely the corruption got greater and greater

00:09:39.920 and greater until it became a moral corruption in which the world is now engulfed we've got a

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00:11:42.540 You're first.

00:11:45.220 There were people in Israel in public right after October 7th,

00:11:51.000 which clearly was committed by Hamas and was clearly terrible.

00:11:54.140 I agree with that. I want to be clear.

00:11:55.940 But there were a bunch of people, including people I knew who said, wait a second, you know, this couldn't have happened if the government of Israel had really tried to prevent it.

00:12:07.660 Okay, so there's something very strange about the ability of Hamas fighters on motorbikes and gliders and on foot coming across the most heavily guarded border in the world and the delay in the response of the IDF to this.

00:12:20.240 Like, what is this? And it's almost forbidden to say that, as you know, in the United States.

00:12:25.140 But tell me what people you spoke to in Israel now believe about that attack.

00:12:30.500 I should point out that when you say I spoke to, I mean, the person who directed the film was Alexis Bloom.

00:12:36.480 I got the footage. Alexis Bloom.

00:12:38.000 Of course. I'm asking you to speak for the film.

00:12:40.980 Sure, sure, sure. No problem.

00:12:41.880 In any event, I think there were a lot of people who felt that a proper investigation into what Netanyahu knew about the possible impending attack by Hamas should be commenced.

00:12:56.980 However, that got rolled under the carpet because of the fact that he's now in a war with Hamas.

00:13:04.680 I mean, Hamas doesn't really have an air force.

00:13:07.800 You can't properly call it a war.

00:13:09.360 But I think there was a lot of talk about how much and what advance warning Netanyahu may have had about the October 7th attacks.

00:13:20.040 I've never seen prima facie evidence of that fact, but there's certainly a lot of talk about it in Israel.

00:13:27.220 Okay, so it's not just crazy people on the Internet who think it's possible or likely that Benjamin Netanyahu knew this was coming, had some sense it was coming, didn't do his best to prevent the damage within Israel.

00:13:39.360 that because he was in this politically tough spot and the ensuing war would take the attention

00:13:45.260 off him and allow him a pass on the charges is that a fair summation i personally think it may

00:13:50.740 be a bit too cynical to think that that that he literally engendered an attack in order to be able

00:13:56.640 to counter-attack but i do think that he had deluded himself in part because he he thought

00:14:03.180 of the world as a series of deals he had deluded himself in into the idea that he had manipulated

00:14:10.040 hamas and all the money that was flowing to hamas yeah um you know wasn't going to go to weapons

00:14:16.340 and preparing an attack i mean he kept saying what's the phrase it's in the film um uh that

00:14:23.260 that he could control the height of the flames by by the introduction of money or and he also

00:14:31.060 When he's talking to the police, he says, keep your friends close and your enemies closer as if he was the Don and sort of able to manipulate events.

00:14:40.460 But he clearly was not able to.

00:14:42.360 That seems like a smart interpretation to me.

00:14:44.780 And of course, I don't know.

00:14:45.680 But that that sounds that sounds plausible, entirely plausible.

00:14:49.000 So then October 7th happens.

00:14:52.800 I think most Israelis are genuinely shocked that it happened and they're horrified.

00:14:57.040 And a lot of the world is genuinely shocked and horrified, including me.

00:15:01.060 But then this war begins in Gaza or this leveling of Gaza, this mass murder in Gaza, and then it expands to a lot of the regions in the Levant and now into Iran.

00:15:14.420 Is it too cynical to think that one of the motives there from the prime minister is to just keep moving forward because if he stops, he gets arrested?

00:15:26.640 Well, it may be a little bit too cynical.

00:15:29.920 I mean, maybe Netanyahu's wanted to attack Iran for years.

00:15:34.480 In fact, they did another film about that subject called Zero Days.

00:15:39.500 But I do think that once the momentum of war began, and I would say also that to some extent, the momentum of war began to have a certain popular impact among the populace in Israel, too.

00:15:54.160 That now there was an opportunity to go after more enemies.

00:15:59.320 So and it had the byproduct, of course, as long as there's war, as long as there's permanent war, Netanyahu will never be held to account.

00:16:06.980 So once again, I think it may be a bit too cynical to say he attacked Iran so he wouldn't go to jail.

00:16:12.580 But I think it had been a longstanding desire for Netanyahu to want to really go after Iran.

00:16:19.700 And now both once he'd started the war in Gaza, but also, I think, with the Trump administration coming to power in 2024, suddenly he had an opportunity.

00:16:34.460 Yeah, that sounds right to me.

00:16:36.600 So how has he regarded the prime minister in Israel?

00:16:40.780 It's hard to know if you're not there.

00:16:43.320 What's your view?

00:16:44.560 I agree.

00:16:45.040 I think it's fair to say that there is a robust group of people who are vehemently anti-Netanyahu

00:16:54.100 and believe he's destroying Israel and destroying democracy in Israel and indeed making the country

00:17:01.800 a pariah worldwide.

00:17:03.460 I would agree with that point of view.

00:17:05.960 However, I would also say that war has a peculiar effect on people and can engender a sense of nationalism, which I believe is rising.

00:17:19.820 Not only a sense of nationalism, but that nationalism undergirded by the undertow of victimhood.

00:17:27.200 So Netanyahu is very much using that.

00:17:30.780 And I think it would be a mistake to think that he's unpopular.

00:17:34.200 We'll find out very soon, you know, when elections happen.

00:17:37.980 But I think that as long as you're waging war, people tend to rally around the commander in chief, which I think is both a cynical ploy by Netanyahu and also a longstanding goal of his to be able to wage war across the Levant and expand Israel's power and influence.

00:17:58.980 Did you get a sense of his religious views?

00:18:03.260 I think of Netanyahu is, well, honestly, he's pretty American and Western and secular.

00:18:10.220 But in his, I mean, the first statement he gave after the war in Iran began, he began with today's Torah portion.

00:18:15.820 And he's been saying things like that a lot.

00:18:18.120 Do you have an opinion on what he thinks, what his spiritual views are?

00:18:23.020 It's hard for me to say.

00:18:24.340 I mean, I think that to some extent, I see him more as a politician.

00:18:31.860 Now, I don't have access to what his real views are.

00:18:36.540 But when you hear politicians quoting scripture, in effect, it tends to be for the reason that they're trying to undergird their policies with the force of God.

00:18:56.040 It's an old script, and I think Netanyahu knows very well that it's an effective one. 1.00

00:19:01.500 That would be my gut.

00:19:02.780 I really don't know or have any insight into what he believes when he's alone in a room, what his relationship is with God.

00:19:12.340 Yeah, well, we can't know.

00:19:13.400 But it does seem like the country is changing fast.

00:19:15.880 That's my perception as a visitor.

00:19:18.280 It's not a good thing.

00:19:19.940 And we can also see that this hard right-wing faction has wreaked havoc on the West Bank.

00:19:29.400 And, you know, settlements are expanding apace in a really reprehensible way.

00:19:36.180 There's lots of, you know, it's sort of out of the public eye.

00:19:40.560 But that, I think, was one of the goals from the beginning, you know, with reckoning with Hamas and all of this stuff.

00:19:48.960 But also, you know, because Netanyahu, in order to stay in power, another corrupt deal, he makes a deal with a hard right and then goes very hard right.

00:19:57.500 It's not like he was ever a peacenik, but now he goes very, very, very hard right and at the great expense of the lives and livelihoods of many Palestinians.

00:20:11.240 Yeah. I don't know if it's right or not. I'm on the right and I hate this. I hate violence.

00:20:15.500 And there were reports this morning of in the Israeli press of mass rapes of Palestinians by settlers in the West Bank.

00:20:22.840 So, like, I think that's just the degree of violence by the by by by settlers on Palestinians in the West Bank is rapacious.

00:20:30.560 I mean, it's it's and it goes on day after day after day after day.

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00:22:43.080 save at bestwestern.com. So since you're the producer of this film, do you mind if I ask you

00:22:48.900 about your experience? So you come into possession of a thousand hours of tape, which is not public.

00:22:56.620 You're not saying understandably exactly how you got it, but it's real. I mean, probably a lot of

00:23:05.080 people don't want you to make that into a documentary and air it. So what was your experience

00:23:10.260 of that that's fair to say and indeed uh when you know we we tried to produce the film in secret

00:23:15.860 um i i had uh some able um helpers i mean not only was alexis bloom an extraordinary talented woman

00:23:23.200 directing it but in israel you know we were aided by a guy named raviv drucker um who is a a noted

00:23:30.100 journalist in in israel helped us to contextualize some of this stuff but we had a sense that we had

00:23:35.060 to keep it secret while we were making it. And then we sort of launched an event at the Toronto

00:23:43.440 Film Festival in 2024. It was a work in progress because we felt at that moment this kind of thing

00:23:50.860 needed to be seen. Now, Netanyahu himself went to court in Israel to try to stop the

00:23:56.440 premiere of the film at Toronto. He was utterly unsuccessful. But I should note also that the

00:24:04.980 american media played a kind of unseemly role in the sense that we were uh we went to nbc first

00:24:12.220 and we're going to do a rather big piece in advance of the um uh the premier in toronto

00:24:20.020 and then we were told at the last minute that oh nbc has decided that um we're not going to do the

00:24:27.380 story because it would probably upset netanyahu and that would limit our access to the prime

00:24:32.580 minister. They said that? Yes, they said that to me. That's correct.

00:24:40.060 Well, not what I would regard as a deeply courageous move by a journalistic organization.

00:24:47.520 Yeah, I mean, I think journalistic is probably too strong. But wow, I'm just, I mean, I've worked

00:24:54.720 at that company. I'm just surprised that they were as blunt as they were to you. What did you say?

00:24:59.260 i was just shocked i mean because i was ready to um i was ready to do an interview i believe was

00:25:06.260 andrea mitchell um you know i i was shocked and you know part of the reckoning was it was both

00:25:13.840 both craven and bad journalistically but also sort of corrupt in the sense that they they

00:25:20.140 suggested that they might have gone with it if they themselves had discovered um the

00:25:26.200 the police interrogation videos, but they weren't going to risk their capital with Netanyahu for

00:25:35.240 something that they themselves didn't discover. The idea of the public good or the public

00:25:40.980 reckoning didn't seem to be part of the equation. It was a very disappointing moment.

00:25:46.820 Probably not that surprising. I mean, in general, the coverage of what happens there is non-existent

00:25:54.720 or not consistent with reality in the United States.

00:25:58.900 But did you pause at all before embarking on this?

00:26:03.020 Once you got the tapes,

00:26:03.980 did you think maybe it's not a good idea long-term

00:26:05.780 for me to get involved in something like this?

00:26:08.160 No, I felt it was really important

00:26:12.060 because those tapes,

00:26:14.180 once I was able to verify them

00:26:18.760 and to understand them better,

00:26:22.360 I felt they shed a really important light on a vital figure in world politics, and that's in Yahoo.

00:26:30.460 And so it seemed to me that that's my job.

00:26:35.400 And when I find out important information about public figures that shed light on wars and how we reckon with the world, that it's my job to get that story out.

00:26:50.160 So I actually didn't pause, but it took a while to figure out because I'm not a network, you know, I'm an independent filmmaker and it took a while to figure out how to raise the money, how to and also to do it in secret so that nobody would subpoena the tapes or, you know, prevent me from from getting to the end.

00:27:13.540 So, you know, Alexis and I had to proceed, you know, for some time in secret.

00:27:20.020 But, you know, I felt it was really important material and really important to get it out.

00:27:26.520 Good for you. How hard was it to raise the money?

00:27:29.460 It was hard, but not, as it turns out, impossible.

00:27:32.840 So, and there were a number of people who also, once they were able to see a little bit of what we had, came forward and helped.

00:27:45.740 So, yeah, we were able to do it.

00:27:48.100 I mean, it was, but it was, it was, it was mining a different source.

00:27:53.840 It wasn't the traditional way where you go to your bureau chief and you say,

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00:29:03.620 Do you expect any consequences going forward?

00:29:07.260 I mean, presumably you hope to make other films.

00:29:09.100 Will this make it harder?

00:29:10.740 I don't know.

00:29:11.620 I think that we live in a moment where people all over the world, including in this country, are making it difficult for independent voices to be heard.

00:29:25.520 So, yeah, I reckon with that.

00:29:28.580 But I feel like even though, and I'm glad, you know, TCN is showing BB files on its network, and it has had, you know, pretty good international distribution.

00:29:42.580 The distribution here has been somewhat handicapped.

00:29:47.320 Can you tell us about that?

00:29:49.100 I mean, it seems like even if I disagreed with your views, which I don't know that I do, I don't think I do, but I would just stop at you have relevant information, that's real, about one of the key players in global politics.

00:30:04.940 So like that alone justifies this, in my opinion.

00:30:08.880 And so the idea that you would have distribution problems in the United States is a little scary, and I'd love to know more about what those problems are.

00:30:16.200 I think one of the problems is that the market in general is controversy averse.

00:30:24.640 You know, you have a number of streamers who don't want to upset their viewers.

00:30:30.400 You have news organizations, which in this case, as I've documented, you know, also didn't want to be on the wrong side of an issue that might upset people.

00:30:39.520 I mean, it seems to me that the job, you know, because I do think that four years ago, roughly speaking, you know, if I had gone out into the marketplace with the BB files, there would have been a bidding war.

00:30:54.840 But now it's kind of just the opposite.

00:30:57.120 It's like we don't want to do anything that might upset people because then they won't buy sneakers or they won't buy iPads.

00:31:05.780 You know, so that's part of it.

00:31:07.700 And I and I think part of it is that controversy has become problematic and also powerful political figures are exerting influence on broadcasting outlets to toe the line.

00:31:22.960 And sometimes if you're not, you know, you don't have a regular show, you don't get a hearing.

00:31:29.880 So it's a problem. It's a really big problem.

00:31:31.940 I think the, you know, while I'm critical of the mainstream press, particularly in this instance, you know, I believe strongly in the idea of a free press and I'm deeply upset about the way not only Netanyahu did in Israel, but the way the Trump administration is trying to suppress a free press in this country.

00:31:55.180 So it's a dark time for this.

00:31:57.660 How long have you been doing this kind of thing?

00:32:00.460 Well, that's a good question.

00:32:01.940 And, you know, I guess I've been doing it, I've been an independent, a freelance since, geez, since the 1980s.

00:32:13.320 So somehow, someway, I've been, you know, managing to scrape by.

00:32:18.420 And I've never really worked for an organization, except for the small company that is Chigsaw Productions, which is my company.

00:32:25.200 Have you ever seen an environment this difficult for someone who wants to present newsworthy, inherently newsworthy material like the tapes in this documentary?

00:32:35.260 not really there was another period in the late 90s um in this country i remember trying to do

00:32:44.140 a film about it was critical of henry kissinger and uh i had a i had an easy the bbc was was

00:32:50.580 actually heroic in that instance but i could find no finders here and it's only by going to

00:32:55.300 um i think we played at the film forum for something like three months that finally

00:32:59.920 It allowed, because it was then entertainment, it allowed a broadcaster to show it.

00:33:04.960 It was difficult then, but it's much more fraught now.

00:33:07.960 I think it's very, very, very hard to get independent voices heard.

00:33:16.680 It's really unprecedented in my experience, this moment.

00:33:20.820 Yeah, well, thank you.

00:33:22.000 That's certainly my feeling, but I don't have the 40-year perspective that you do.

00:33:25.340 So, but I admire your dedication to a free press, your bravery in doing this and your willingness to explain it to us and to air it on TCN.

00:33:34.260 So thank you very much, Alex Gibney.

00:33:35.940 Thank you, Tucker.

The Tucker Carlson Show - March 27, 2026

Leaked Police Interrogation Footage of Netanyahu, and How He Cowers Behind War to Keep Power

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