The Tucker Carlson Show - Mark Epstein

00:00:00.000 It's interesting to learn who Jeffrey Epstein hung around with while he was alive.

00:00:15.120 People who flew on his airplane, people who stayed on his private island in the Caribbean,

00:00:19.920 those who had dinner at his home on Fifth Avenue in New York.

00:00:23.440 And to some extent, those names are coming out, not all of them.

00:00:26.440 But we know a lot of the people who are in Jeffrey Epstein's life, and we have for several years now.

00:00:32.900 But on another level, that whole story seems like a bit of a sideshow,

00:00:37.480 because it doesn't answer the main mysteries surrounding Jeffrey Epstein's life or death.

00:00:42.540 And there are three of them, almost none of which is ever discussed in the media.

00:00:47.200 The first is who did Jeffrey Epstein work for?

00:00:50.540 What did Jeffrey Epstein do for a living, and on whose behalf?

00:00:54.300 We don't know.

00:00:55.240 The second question is, where did all the money come from?

00:00:58.640 Hundreds of millions of dollars that passed through his hands over many years.

00:01:02.540 And where is it now?

00:01:03.960 We don't know that either.

00:01:05.400 And the third question may be the most pressing of all, which is, what happened to Jeffrey Epstein?

00:01:10.920 On August 10, 2019, he was found dead in the Federal Correctional Facility in Manhattan,

00:01:16.760 one of the most secure places in the world.

00:01:19.280 Did he kill himself, as the government has claimed ever since, or was he murdered?

00:01:23.740 Well, the overwhelming evidence suggests that he was, in fact, murdered,

00:01:27.700 and that the U.S. government, including the Attorney General of the United States, covered up that murder.

00:01:32.960 These are the questions that matter most, and they're exactly the ones not being addressed in the news media.

00:01:38.120 Why is that?

00:01:40.100 We decided to speak to someone who has insight into this question, and that is Jeffrey Epstein's only surviving relative.

00:01:46.880 His name is Mark Epstein.

00:01:48.280 He was Jeffrey Epstein's brother, separated by 18 months.

00:01:51.560 He's a successful real estate developer in New York, and he's very concerned for his own safety.

00:01:57.160 So the interview that follows is one that you will listen to rather than see.

00:02:02.060 Mark Epstein refused to appear on camera, but we think what he has to say is worth hearing.

00:02:07.220 Here it is.

00:02:09.440 Do you think your brother killed himself?

00:02:11.600 Not now.

00:02:13.000 No.

00:02:14.160 When I first heard he was dead from suicide, I had no reason to doubt it, so I accepted that.

00:02:18.840 But then after the autopsy, and after Bill Barr made that asinine statement, I said, this was not a suicide.

00:02:27.580 But when you first heard the news, you thought it was a possibility that he killed himself.

00:02:32.300 Yeah, I accepted it as a fact.

00:02:33.860 I heard it on the news.

00:02:35.120 The government didn't notify me, as they said.

00:02:37.180 I heard it on CNN in the morning of the 10th.

00:02:40.400 And you're his only survivor.

00:02:42.300 You're the only surviving relative.

00:02:43.240 Yes, yes.

00:02:43.880 He has no children, and our parents are gone, and there's no other siblings.

00:02:47.200 When did you start to think that he did not kill himself?

00:02:51.980 Well, after the autopsy, and both pathologists, the city pathologist and Dr. Barton, came out of the autopsy, and they said, this doesn't look like a suicide.

00:03:01.160 It looks more like a homicide.

00:03:03.520 So what did you do that?

00:03:05.280 Well, okay, I figured I'd have to look into this and see what's going on.

00:03:09.620 Were you shocked that he might have been killed?

00:03:12.960 It came as a surprise, yeah.

00:03:14.960 So as his only surviving relative, what did you do to find out what happened to him?

00:03:22.140 Well, I started to inquire about what took place.

00:03:25.000 The Justice Department was supposedly investigating.

00:03:28.720 The initial death certificate said pending when it said cause of death, which means pending further investigation.

00:03:35.980 Yes.

00:03:36.220 But then a few days later, it was declared a suicide by the chief pathologist, who was not at the autopsy.

00:03:44.020 And the questions became what investigation was done in such a short period of time to make her determine it was a suicide, or was she basing it on Bill Barr's statement?

00:03:54.740 And who was the chief pathologist who made that declaration?

00:03:57.100 Dr. Roman?

00:03:59.140 That was the pathologist who was there.

00:04:01.760 No, no, no.

00:04:02.160 That was, oh, Samson. 0.69

00:04:03.960 Barbara Samson was the chief pathologist.

00:04:05.700 Right.

00:04:05.900 Dr. Roman did the actual autopsy with Dr. Barr.

00:04:08.240 So, Barbara Samson is the person who declared it officially a suicide, and she was not, as you said, at the autopsy.

00:04:17.560 I mean, she was not present for it.

00:04:18.660 Correct.

00:04:19.260 And, you know, when they call it a suicide, they stop investigating.

00:04:23.600 Because if there's a suicide, there's really nothing to investigate.

00:04:26.740 Right.

00:04:27.240 If it's a suicide.

00:04:28.240 Because somebody killed themselves, case closed.

00:04:31.560 So that's how they can just sort of cover it up.

00:04:34.740 They never did an investigation.

00:04:36.180 They never interviewed the EMTs that were called to the jail.

00:04:41.760 They never interviewed the hospital personnel, where his body was shipped.

00:04:47.200 I can't get any answers as to what investigation was done.

00:04:51.780 When I met with the Justice Department people a few months after the death, every question I asked was answered by saying,

00:04:58.960 after a thorough investigation, we determined it was a suicide.

00:05:02.720 It was like them pleading the fifth.

00:05:04.360 In fact, I got the same answer to every question I asked.

00:05:07.720 So, did you speak to Barbara Samson, the official who ruled the system?

00:05:12.180 No, I haven't been able to get to her.

00:05:14.560 Well, she never called you.

00:05:16.460 No.

00:05:16.820 So, in her public explanation, she has been asked about this.

00:05:21.160 We tried to reach out to her.

00:05:22.080 She refused to speak to us for reasons we don't understand.

00:05:26.100 But in her official explanation, she suggested that she ruled it a suicide, effectively overruling the judgment of the people who actually were from the autopsy,

00:05:35.340 because your brother had attempted suicide previously.

00:05:38.240 Yeah, but that's been shown to be false.

00:05:41.920 You can listen to David's show and his attorney on the podcast, the Crime Waves podcast.

00:05:47.380 He explains that Jeff was attacked by his cellmate, but he didn't want to report it as such because he was afraid of retaliation.

00:05:53.880 But every news account of his initial injuries in the weeks before his death said that he had tried to kill himself in a cell.

00:06:04.480 He was found in fetal position on the floor after a failed suicide attempt, et cetera, et cetera.

00:06:08.340 Well, once somebody says that, then everyone picks up the same story, and then it becomes the truth, just because it's been repeated so many times.

00:06:16.420 But the fact is, he did not attempt suicide that first time.

00:06:22.040 So if he didn't try and kill himself the first time, then the medical examiner had no basis to declare this a suicide.

00:06:28.000 Exactly, exactly.

00:06:29.400 Plus, there's reasons why he wouldn't kill himself then.

00:06:31.460 He had a hearing scheduled to appeal the bail decision coming up in a few days, and the bail was being increased.

00:06:41.360 So there's a chance he could have got bail, even as unpalatable as that might have been to some people.

00:06:46.420 You know, in the United States, you're entitled to bail under certain conditions.

00:06:51.280 But, you know, so I could see if he went for the hearing for bail and it was denied, then I can see him taking himself out if he didn't want to spend a year in jail waiting for a trial.

00:07:02.000 Yeah.

00:07:02.520 But not a few days before.

00:07:04.620 That makes no sense.

00:07:05.440 In all the, in your conversations with him and in your conversations with the people who were in contact with him at the final weeks of his life, was there any indication on all that he was suicidal at any point?

00:07:16.040 No, I had no conversations with him once he was arrested.

00:07:18.840 I spoke to him the day before he was arrested.

00:07:21.000 He actually called me from Paris, just the usual, you know, how you doing kind of phone call.

00:07:25.260 And the next day, his attorneys called me and told me he was arrested.

00:07:28.140 And that was the last time I spoke with him.

00:07:29.880 I didn't speak to him or see him while he was in jail.

00:07:31.920 But having spoken to his lawyers and people whom he communicated with from jail, did anybody say that he seemed suicidal?

00:07:40.020 No, everybody was shocked that it was a suicide.

00:07:42.620 Nobody thought he was going to kill himself.

00:07:44.520 Nobody thought he would do that.

00:07:45.500 So what's interesting is that the attorney general of the United States at the time, Attorney General Barr, said publicly and then wrote in his memoir that he had concluded conclusively that this was a suicide based on two pieces of evidence.

00:08:01.880 One, the medical examiner, the person who performed the autopsy, declared it a suicide, which is a lie.

00:08:08.680 That didn't happen.

00:08:10.100 And two, because he had viewed the videotape at the entrance to the tear, to the cell block where your brother was being held.

00:08:17.440 What do you make of that explanation?

00:08:19.860 Well, when I heard Barr's statement that he said he personally saw the videotape and he concluded it was a suicide because nobody went in or out, that's where it hit me that he's covering this up, because there's two sort of fallacies in that.

00:08:33.120 One, I thought, why is the attorney general of the United States, who I imagine to be a busy guy, why is he personally watching the videotape?

00:08:41.560 Couldn't he have two people in his office watch the videotape and say, hey, Bill, nobody went in or out?

00:08:46.540 You know, wouldn't that suffice?

00:08:47.780 And two, to assume that somebody could get to that door, go inside, you know, kill somebody, get out completely undetected is just ridiculous, because I believe there are six levels of security before you get to that door. 0.54

00:09:04.700 So to assume that somebody could do it that way is crazy.

00:09:08.420 And any third-rate investigator will tell you that, you know, there was anywhere from seven to 14 people on the other side of that door, on the tear, that could have killed somebody.

00:09:17.780 And I had been told from another source, I've been getting a lot of information from all sources, that cell doors were left unlocked that night.

00:09:25.360 I don't know how many cell doors or whose cell doors, but if cell doors were left unlocked, then somebody could have went into Jeff's cell, killed them, went back into their cell, undetected.

00:09:35.400 Now, in the Justice Department report, it says that from three cells, you could see Jeff's cell door.

00:09:43.860 But if you look at the photographs of the tear, there's tiny windows in the cell doors.

00:09:48.680 So in order to see Jeff's cell door from another cell, you'd have to be standing at that window inside the other cells in the middle of the night looking towards Jeff's cell.

00:09:59.940 And if somebody crept low beneath the height of that window, you wouldn't see them.

00:10:05.680 So the fact that, you know, to say that he could be seen from three other cells and they didn't see anything, chances are the other prisoners were sleeping in those cells if they had nothing to do with it.

00:10:16.000 And so, again, it's just like a cover-up line.

00:10:19.720 Right.

00:10:20.140 So in other words, the Attorney General said that nobody moved on to the cell block, according to the videotape, but that is irrelevant because if your brother was murdered, he was almost certainly murdered by someone who was already on the cell block.

00:10:30.860 Exactly.

00:10:31.620 Right.

00:10:32.400 So given that, and it's obvious and logical when you think about it for about 10 seconds, the identities of the other inmates on that cell block are critical.

00:10:42.740 Your brother was alone in his cell.

00:10:44.220 Right.

00:10:44.440 So any one of those inmates could have killed your brother.

00:10:48.660 Do we know who they were?

00:10:49.960 No, I can't find out who they were.

00:10:51.780 It's, uh, there was anywhere, there were seven other cells, each with one or two people in them.

00:10:57.060 Yeah.

00:10:57.240 Which means it's either anywhere from seven to 14 people other than my brother on the tier.

00:11:02.120 Right.

00:11:02.220 I don't know who they are or, I know one, that guy Tattaglione, who was Jeff's cellmate for a while.

00:11:08.640 Uh, he was there and he was there for a long time.

00:11:11.620 So, uh, if, if Jeff was killed, it's a possibility that somebody was planted in there.

00:11:16.960 Cell doors were left unlocked.

00:11:18.380 And then from what I understand, a number of prisoners were transferred off of that tier after the death.

00:11:23.300 So if somebody was planted, he killed Jeff and a day or two later, he's transferred out and he disappears into the ether.

00:11:29.660 I don't know who the prisoners were.

00:11:31.500 I'd like to find out who they are and where are they now.

00:11:33.880 So there's, of course, a record of this.

00:11:36.960 These are federal inmates in a facility run by the Department of Justice, the Bureau of Prisons overseen by the Department of Justice.

00:11:43.740 So it's not like nobody knows who they were.

00:11:47.080 They'd have to have a record.

00:11:48.360 Right.

00:11:49.080 But they will not release that to you.

00:11:50.660 I haven't been able to get anything.

00:11:52.120 Right.

00:11:52.820 Let's go down, um, the chain of documents that might explain this mystery.

00:11:57.860 Um, so the first would be the records of the first responders, the EMTs, who arrived at the scene and moved your brother's body from the cell to...

00:12:08.200 No, that's what I had thought.

00:12:09.500 But when I spoke to an EMT, when they got to the prison, Jeff was already in the infirmary.

00:12:15.880 They, the prison people moved him to the infirmary, which they were not supposed to do.

00:12:20.280 Because when he was found, he was clearly dead.

00:12:23.360 The autopsy showed he was dead for at least two hours before he was found.

00:12:26.700 So, at that point, they're supposed to leave the body and call the medical examiner's office so they can come, take photographs, do the initial testing, whatever they do, when they find a dead body.

00:12:38.800 But that wasn't done.

00:12:39.920 They moved him to the infirmary.

00:12:42.740 And, uh...

00:12:43.240 They moved his corpse to the infirmary, but notified nobody else.

00:12:46.900 Well, a 911 call was made to get the EMTs, and we can't get a copy of the 911 call, which is, you know, we had 911 calls for all sorts of other cases.

00:12:57.140 This one seems to be missing.

00:12:59.620 When they got there, he was in the infirmary, and he was clearly dead, because, like I said, he'd been dead for two hours.

00:13:06.320 And there was a photograph of him being wheeled out of the prison, where he was intubated and squeezing an air bulb to drag it.

00:13:14.260 But, you know, so I was questioning, why are they trying to put, you know, pump into a clearly dead body?

00:13:20.460 You know, were they trying to make it look like he was alive so that he could be declared dead in the hospital?

00:13:25.840 Because what I've been told, normally when they find dead bodies in the prisons, they want to ship them to the hospital, so they're declared dead in the hospital.

00:13:34.860 It was like an unwritten rule is nobody dies in prison.

00:13:38.740 They don't want to deal with it.

00:13:39.800 So they ship them to the hospital, where he's declared dead.

00:13:42.200 And when I questioned the EMT, why they were intubating him, I said because he was dead for at least two hours, the response I got was, how do you know that?

00:13:52.740 It was a kind of a strange response.

00:13:54.560 But I knew that from the autopsy.

00:13:59.520 So we don't know who moved him out of the cell.

00:14:02.600 No person has come forward to say, I moved this corpse from the cell.

00:14:07.920 No.

00:14:08.620 But I was also told that in the infirmary and in the hospital, there was somebody with a handheld video camera all the time running, videotaping everything.

00:14:18.020 Where are those tapes?

00:14:20.060 That's another question.

00:14:21.040 Despite the fact that your brother was dead in his cell and had been dead for two hours, at least two hours, somebody cut off his clothing and redressed the corpse in hospital scrubs, in a gown.

00:14:35.440 Yeah, I have a photograph of him in a hospital gown on a gurney in a hospital where, you know, his arms were put through the sleeves.

00:14:42.320 It's one of those gowns you're tying in the back. 0.82

00:14:44.280 So the question becomes, you know, who decided to dress a dead body in a hospital gown?

00:14:48.120 Normally, they're either in a body bag or covered by a sheet.

00:14:52.800 That's bizarre.

00:14:54.480 Yes.

00:14:55.020 And four and a half years later, you have no answers at all on any of these questions.

00:14:58.760 None.

00:14:59.400 None.

00:14:59.900 And I've tried to get the PCR report or the ACR report, which is the report that the EMTs fill out on every call they make.

00:15:07.560 It's just their record keeping system.

00:15:08.940 And these are filed with the fire department.

00:15:11.140 And as this video I sent you showed, they have no record of it.

00:15:17.560 So there are essentially no records of what happened at all.

00:15:21.080 There's no videotape.

00:15:21.960 The cameras were broken.

00:15:23.260 The guards were supposed to be keeping watch, were asleep.

00:15:26.840 They were convicted of lying, but then they were pardoned by a judge later.

00:15:32.300 Apparently, one still works for the federal government.

00:15:34.120 I believe so, yeah.

00:15:34.920 I tried to talk to the guards.

00:15:38.620 I couldn't get to them.

00:15:40.360 I tried to contact them through their attorneys, and I couldn't get to them.

00:15:45.680 Okay.

00:15:46.480 So then there was famously an investigation into this overseen by the Department of Justice's head investigator.

00:15:58.200 Where is that?

00:15:59.060 Well, they came out with a report a few months ago, and for four years we've been trying to find out what position his body was in when it was found.

00:16:08.400 And we couldn't get an answer to that either.

00:16:10.500 But in the report, it described how he was found.

00:16:13.660 It said that he was in a seated position with his legs extended in front of him, and he was hanging from the top bunk.

00:16:20.080 So if you picture that, you know, basically all of his body weight or most of his body weight was hanging by the snooze around his neck or the ligature around his neck.

00:16:30.840 He had some weight on his feet, but the bulk of his 180-some-odd pounds was hanging.

00:16:37.020 And they said when they cut him down or tore him down, his buttocks was an inch or an inch and a half above the ground.

00:16:43.640 Again, which means his body weight was on his neck.

00:16:45.980 Now, if somebody's hanging like that, the noose or the ligature would ride up high on the neck and go high behind your ears to where it was tied to.

00:16:57.260 But the autopsy photographs show that the ligature mark on Jeff's neck is in the middle of his neck and goes straight back.

00:17:06.180 As if someone put a rope around his neck and strangled him like Carlo in The Godfather, in the car.

00:17:13.040 Or the electrical cord to his neck.

00:17:14.700 Or the electrical cord or whatever was there.

00:17:16.920 But it doesn't look like the fabric from a bed sheet.

00:17:21.260 So if it seems clear just from the photographs of his autopsy that he was strangled with, say, a cord, wouldn't you test that cord for his DNA?

00:17:32.160 Yeah, nobody seems to know where that is.

00:17:34.020 Also, the way they said he was hanging, and again, he had to be there for at least two hours.

00:17:39.700 When you die, the blood in your body settles to the, gravity takes the blood down to the lowest parts of your body.

00:17:46.180 And they become blotchy from the blood pooling under the skin.

00:17:50.040 So the back of his legs and his buttocks should have what's called lividity.

00:17:54.800 They should have this blotchiness, like bruising look on the back of his legs and his buttocks.

00:17:59.440 An autopsy photograph showing that his legs are clean, clear.

00:18:04.400 So he couldn't have been hanging that way for more than, you know, for two-plus hours.

00:18:09.080 He'd have blood pooling in his legs.

00:18:11.920 But that's not the case.

00:18:13.220 So did the report explain the discrepancies from the autopsy, that bones in his neck were broken that are not seen in hangings but are seen in strangulations?

00:18:24.660 Those broken bones, they're seen in strangulations, but because he had three bones, it's also from karate chop to the neck.

00:18:33.160 Well, break bones like that. 0.75

00:18:35.860 And that seems to be what I've spoken to military people, a preferred way of killing people is you karate chop them in the neck really hard. 0.98

00:18:43.980 You collapse their windpipe and that disorients them and incapacitates them. 0.98

00:18:48.080 And then usually they just break their neck or you can strangle them.

00:18:52.360 So the breaks in his neck are more consistent with a karate chop than what's called a soft hanging.

00:18:57.760 You know, when you tie something around your neck and you sit down or hang yourself from something soft, like, you know, unfortunately, Robert Williams or Andre, you know, is it Bourdain, was it?

00:19:08.080 Killed himself in the work.

00:19:09.340 Right.

00:19:09.580 Those are soft hangings as opposed to, you know, Brooks in the Shawshank Redemption who stood on a chair and sort of jumped off.

00:19:16.700 That's a hard hanging.

00:19:18.120 That will snap the bones in your neck.

00:19:19.940 But that wasn't what happened with Jeff.

00:19:21.500 So Dr. Michael Bodden, who participated, was present at the autopsy, has participated in over 1,000 autopsies of prison deaths.

00:19:33.380 I have never seen three fractures like this in a suicidal hanging.

00:19:39.360 Going over, over 1,000 jail hangings, suicides in the New York City state prisons over the past 40, 50 years, no one had three fractures.

00:19:49.820 So his fairly firm conclusion is that this was not a suicide.

00:19:54.620 Is that correct?

00:19:55.360 Yes.

00:19:55.920 Yeah.

00:19:56.300 He was holding off on that determination, pending determination of how the body was found, which we finally, now that they say the way the body was found, it just only shows that it was not that way.

00:20:08.400 The autopsy shows it's not that way, which further convinced Dr. Bodden that this was not a hanging, not a suicide.

00:20:14.860 So here's what we wind up with at the end of all this.

00:20:19.960 We wind up with a high-profile inmate in the most secure federal facility in the country's largest city who was somehow murdered, clearly with the knowledge of the Justice Department.

00:20:32.220 And the Attorney General of the United States lies about it, which he did, and there's no reason to do that except to cover up the crime.

00:20:41.600 So what does that tell us about this?

00:20:44.960 Oh, it's a scary thought that you could be killed in prison by the government.

00:20:47.940 Well, because, again, my life would have been a lot easier if he committed suicide.

00:20:55.980 I could have put it behind me.

00:20:57.420 But it's obvious at this point in time that it was not a suicide.

00:21:03.620 And so it means somebody killed him.

00:21:05.040 So who killed him and why?

00:21:07.040 Right.

00:21:07.340 So in talking to all the people around him or people who were connected with him in one way or another in the final weeks of his life, have you detected a fear in those people in talking about this?

00:21:22.740 Not really.

00:21:24.180 I don't think they're fearful of anything.

00:21:25.780 I was the one getting the death threats, not them.

00:21:28.340 I don't think they did.

00:21:29.180 Why were you getting death threats?

00:21:30.300 Well, when Jeff died, people tried to link me to his activities in some way, shape, or form.

00:21:36.640 Again, I had not seen Jeff for seven years prior to his death.

00:21:41.060 We were in communication.

00:21:42.080 We spoke.

00:21:42.560 We emailed.

00:21:43.160 But we lived two different lives.

00:21:44.980 So I didn't know his inner circle, and he didn't know mine.

00:21:50.400 But people tried to link us, tried to link me to his activities.

00:21:53.840 And I was in contact with the FBI and the New York Police Department about the death threats.

00:22:00.300 And I had, at times, had armed guards.

00:22:02.780 When I went to the autopsy, I had armed guards with me to protect myself.

00:22:07.720 From who?

00:22:08.880 From whoever killed Jeff.

00:22:11.860 But anyone who could murder someone in a federal detention facility obviously has a lot of power.

00:22:20.200 Yeah, well, I was trying to protect myself as best as I could.

00:22:23.300 Yeah.

00:22:25.000 Do you fear for, I notice you're not appearing on camera.

00:22:27.560 You've asked not to appear on camera.

00:22:28.820 Yeah, I just, I don't want to be recognized.

00:22:30.040 I travel a lot.

00:22:31.200 And there's no need for me.

00:22:32.180 This is not about me.

00:22:33.260 This is about Jeff's death.

00:22:34.980 Did you have any inkling at all that your brother was involved in anything that might get him killed by a government?

00:22:41.320 No.

00:22:42.000 No.

00:22:42.960 Like I said, I wasn't involved with his day-to-day life.

00:22:45.520 You know, and, you know, his troubles he had with the charges with the girls was from the early to, you know, 2006 is when he first got into trouble.

00:22:54.180 And he spent time in jail for that.

00:22:57.220 Well, that's a question that's occurred to me.

00:22:59.940 I mean, he went through all this, whatever you think of it.

00:23:02.640 But, um, and then he was charged again for the same, for the same things, effectively.

00:23:09.040 Right.

00:23:09.440 I mean, from what I understand, that was going, he had a non-prosecution agreement with the federal government on that when he made his plea deal.

00:23:15.940 Uh, so he believed he was safe from further prosecution.

00:23:21.320 And then he flew home from Paris in July and they arrested him on the same charges.

00:23:26.920 And his, I believe his defense was going to be, well, hey, you know, I have a non-prosecution agreement with the federal government.

00:23:33.240 And supposedly they say, well, that was like the Southern District or some area.

00:23:36.500 Well, as far as I know, we have one federal government.

00:23:39.580 If you make a deal with the federal government, it covers the entire country.

00:23:42.740 Um, has it occurred that maybe the point of re-arresting him on the same charges was to get him into a facility where he could be killed?

00:23:49.460 Uh, you know, I, I, I've shied away from speculating about all of this.

00:23:53.560 You know, I try to stick with the facts, but that's a possibility.

00:23:58.640 Um, do you think other governments might've been involved in this, not just the U.S. government?

00:24:06.160 Uh, I, I wouldn't on the surface say no.

00:24:09.840 I don't see why.

00:24:10.580 I mean, again, I don't know what he was doing day to day.

00:24:12.660 So, you know, again, that's speculation, which I don't want to do, but I don't think so.

00:24:17.260 You know, on the surface, I don't see why.

00:24:20.400 Um, what information are you still seeking about his death?

00:24:25.280 Well, who were the prisoners on that ward that night?

00:24:29.220 How long were they there for?

00:24:30.360 Now, if somebody was on that ward for, you know, a long time, like his roommate, then, you know,

00:24:34.720 obviously he, they weren't planted there, you know, two years ago to kill Jeff Venn.

00:24:39.900 So who was transferred onto that ward in the week or two before he was killed?

00:24:45.140 And, and where are they now?

00:24:46.860 Where were they transferred to?

00:24:48.460 Were these real prisoners or was that a plant?

00:24:50.780 Have you asked the inspector general at the Department of Justice?

00:24:56.500 We asked all these questions, yes.

00:24:58.060 Way back when.

00:24:59.320 And we get no answer.

00:25:00.140 Yeah.

00:25:00.360 After a thorough investigation, we've determined it was a suicide.

00:25:04.480 But no one's given you any details.

00:25:07.160 After a careful investigation, we've determined it was a suicide.

00:25:10.860 That's what I've been, was getting from them.

00:25:13.500 I'm doing to you what they were doing to me.

00:25:15.660 What's your next move?

00:25:16.600 Well, I'm still trying to find the information.

00:25:19.680 I have, you know, four years out to try to get the medical reports, to try to get the 911 call.

00:25:26.120 And just to get people thinking about this.

00:25:28.480 People shouldn't, like you said, people shouldn't be complacent with the fact that somebody was killed in a federal prison under federal protection.

00:25:37.080 Yeah.

00:25:37.700 And officials at the very highest levels are lying about it.

00:25:40.640 Yeah.

00:25:41.200 And people should be aware of that.

00:25:42.840 Whether we ever figure out exactly what happened, I don't know.

00:25:45.720 But I don't want people to think he committed suicide.

00:25:51.920 Because that's not the case.

00:25:55.020 Mark Epstein, thank you very much.

00:25:56.560 You're welcome.

The Tucker Carlson Show - January 04, 2024

Mark Epstein

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