The Tucker Carlson Show - Matt Gaetz： Ted Cruz’s Delusional 2028 Bid, the ADL, and Identity Politics Taking Over the Right

00:00:00.000 Matt Gaetz thank you for doing this. Good to be with you. I haven't seen you in a

00:00:07.720 while. Especially in Florida. Especially in Florida. Exactly. So I just want to

00:00:14.240 start with a clip that I saw this morning that I think is amazing and

00:00:19.760 tells you a lot about a lot. This is from the Jerusalem Post Washington conference

00:00:23.560 this weekend. The man speaking is a guy called Yehuda Kaplan. I don't think I've

00:00:28.800 ever heard of before but now apparently works at the State Department in the

00:00:32.780 office to fight anti-Semitism which is part of the State Department. And here's

00:00:37.680 what he said. Watch this. I get off a plane. I am the president's representative and I

00:00:42.060 am walking off with a yarmulke and I have kosher food and embassies will have

00:00:46.580 kosher food. It is a game changer. The appointment is a game changer. And it's

00:00:52.640 not about history. It's about education. And how do we educate? Indonesia has 350 million

00:01:02.480 Muslims living in the country. How do we change their textbooks? How do we hold the

00:01:07.300 people in Gaza accountable that if America is paying for UN textbooks and supposedly the

00:01:14.520 changes are made, why are those textbooks not being used and why are they using their

00:01:18.060 old textbooks? We have to teach people it's not okay to educate your kids to be a martyr.

00:01:24.480 Okay? And we have to hold those countries accountable. How do we battle anti-Semitism

00:01:30.600 on the internet? How are we doing better on algorithms? What companies can we work with?

00:01:37.940 We are going to have a whole division within the office of the special envoy to combat anti-Semitism

00:01:43.220 that is going to work on technology and working with the greatest leaders in technology, many of

00:01:50.580 whom are Jewish and have offered their assistance. The office is going to be revamped entirely to be

00:01:55.820 one of the highest profile offices in the State Department. Nothing will convince Indonesia to come

00:02:00.920 our way like sending Rabbi Yehuda is probably my guess. How do we hold the people of Gaza accountable?

00:02:06.600 So there is truth to the claim that in the pedagogy that is administered in a lot of places,

00:02:13.520 there's incitement. Maya the martyr is a character. No doubt. And that is awful and U.S. taxpayers

00:02:19.300 shouldn't fund it and we ought to hold anyone accountable who does. At the same time, the definition

00:02:27.740 of anti-Semitism in recent times, according to some of the Israel first crowd in the United States,

00:02:34.320 has really migrated. Like this isn't my line, but I certainly associate it with anti-Semitism used

00:02:39.220 to mean somebody who didn't like Jews. Now it just means somebody Jews don't like.

00:02:44.460 And that's not a standard that we can live with because the reason anti-Semitism is terrible,

00:02:54.580 it's against my religion, I'm totally opposed to it, and by the way, it does result in violence. I think

00:02:58.960 we just saw that and I hate it. But anti-Semitism is wrong because hating anyone on the basis of their

00:03:06.000 DNA is always wrong. It's a universal principle. It does not apply to one group, my group or your

00:03:10.240 group. It applies to all groups. And if it doesn't apply to all groups, then it's not a principle

00:03:14.040 and I can just ignore it. Right? So that's the problem I have here.

00:03:17.860 Yeah, but the U.S. ambassador to France, Jared Kushner's father, says that anti-Zionism

00:03:23.460 is anti-Semitism. And I don't believe that. I think that you can be critical of foreign policy

00:03:29.380 choices that a country makes without the assumption that you hate the religion or the

00:03:35.100 ethnic group associated with that country. Like when I was critical of Joe Biden, that didn't make

00:03:40.660 me anti-Catholic. And when I'm critical of Benjamin Netanyahu, that doesn't make me anti-Semitic.

00:03:45.440 Well, I agree with that. And I do think there has been a rise, just I can just notice it,

00:03:50.160 in people hating Jews, disliking Jews, anti-Semitism, I think that's real, in the United States. But

00:03:57.500 I think you could probably fix that in a week.

00:04:02.440 How?

00:04:03.660 By getting Jewish groups like the ADL, like the American Jewish Congress, like whatever group

00:04:11.020 Yehuda Kaplan runs, to come out against anti-white hate, which is institutionalized in the United States.

00:04:18.080 And if you had the ADL and the SPLC and these groups that have fought against anti-Semitism

00:04:24.220 for all these years, make the obvious and true point that hatred of anybody on the basis of how

00:04:30.380 they're born is immoral, and we won't stand for it. And in the United States, the institutionalized

00:04:35.760 hate is anti-white, of course, prevented from getting jobs, prevented from getting federal grants,

00:04:40.120 prevented from getting admitted to college. That's still in place.

00:04:43.760 But you know why that hasn't happened.

00:04:45.460 I don't understand. You know what I don't understand?

00:04:47.260 Well, there isn't a sufficient monetization path there, the way it is when the ADL and

00:04:52.620 similarly aligned groups try to make the American people think that anti-Semitism is hiding behind

00:04:57.480 every bush.

00:04:57.900 Okay, but then, so then, I know it's not real. Okay, so if I get up, look, if I get up and

00:05:03.280 say it's only wrong when people attack people like me, then everyone knows that I'm not defending

00:05:11.000 a principle, I'm defending a group interest. And I can ignore your group's interests. I

00:05:15.780 cannot ignore a universal principle. And the universal principle is that kind of hatred

00:05:19.780 is always wrong no matter who it's aimed at. So why doesn't the ADL stand up and do that?

00:05:25.120 I would send money to the ADL if they did that. I would send money to the ADL. I would. And

00:05:31.120 I despise the ADL. Because that would be a defense of what's true and so needed. Why won't

00:05:38.120 they do that? Well, when you're a witch hunter, you have to first convince people of the existence

00:05:44.000 of witches. And so I think that for the broad goals of the ADL, they have to make the country

00:05:50.640 believe that we are somehow aligned against the Jewish faith and against those goals.

00:05:56.000 But what they're saying is it's okay to discriminate against white Christians, but

00:05:58.980 it's immoral to discriminate against Jews? No, it's immoral to discriminate against Jews

00:06:03.040 and white Christians and black people and Indonesians and every group on the basis of

00:06:08.420 their DNA, period. Well, there has to be a villain. And that's what white people have

00:06:13.480 become in this really threat-constructed environment around identity.

00:06:20.620 Well, I've actually reached out to those groups and said, I will make common cause with

00:06:27.240 you. I'll support you. I'll send you money if you will just defend the principle. And that

00:06:31.240 would include defending- No, you never heard these people during the DEI craze.

00:06:35.260 They didn't say one word. They were for it. They were for discriminated against whites.

00:06:39.140 Because those kids who've been shafted by anti-white hate as institutionalized in every

00:06:44.580 big company and every government agency in the whole United States and Western Europe, those

00:06:50.900 people are mad. And where was Yehud 11 during that? Where was Bill Ackman during that? And

00:06:57.600 my point is, come over to the side of universal principles of light and truth, and let's make

00:07:05.220 common cause against all forms of hate. And if you won't do that, then I'm not taking you

00:07:10.040 seriously.

00:07:10.420 And no one should take them seriously, because they are an advocacy group for a particular

00:07:16.320 ethnic group. And that is fine.

00:07:18.260 Well, how's that different from like Ilhan Omar and the Somalis?

00:07:20.960 Well, I think that in a lot of ways, there are similarities when like ethno-nationalism

00:07:27.060 is the objective. And obviously, ethno-nationalism is the objective in Israel. It's the organizing

00:07:31.300 principle of the country.

00:07:32.020 That's fine. That's not our country, though.

00:07:33.400 Of the country. Yeah.

00:07:34.020 But oftentimes, people are pursuing the policies here in the United States that benefit Israel

00:07:40.340 and our own interests and the interests of our people. And the plight you described that

00:07:44.240 so many young people have endured is not a priority.

00:07:46.620 White young people. That's why they're mad. Why do you think they're mad? Because they've

00:07:50.140 been told that the country they were born in like officially discriminates against them.

00:07:54.140 That's ongoing.

00:07:56.040 I don't think it's just even white people. I think it's also non-white people who see the

00:08:01.720 attack on white culture, not as an attack on like colonialism, but as an attack on success

00:08:07.040 and progress and order.

00:08:08.120 I know a lot of non-white people that are like, actually, this anti-white activity that's

00:08:13.820 going on is going to make me less prosperous and less safe.

00:08:17.760 And I'm kind of here, like for all the criticisms we as whites have taken, we did an okay job

00:08:22.860 setting up an orderly world and we've made some mistakes along the way and you've got to

00:08:27.300 reconcile those. But at the end, what society would you replace with like what we've set up

00:08:34.320 in the Western world? Is there some like vision of the way civilizations were built in Africa or

00:08:41.220 the Far East that we would gleefully adopt?

00:08:43.780 So imagine moving here because it's a white country founded by white people and getting

00:08:49.320 here and being like, yeah, I want to be part of that, which I get 100%. And then you get here and

00:08:55.580 the first thing you learn is white people are bad. Right. I mean, that must be weird.

00:08:59.740 It's, I think that this is shifting the other way. I really think during the excesses of the

00:09:06.460 post George Floyd era, people attached so strongly to identity. And, you know, I sense a real pushback

00:09:15.200 against that. And like you talk about like learning it, right? The main place people learn still is in

00:09:21.580 the school system. Right now, public education is essentially a failing enterprise and all of the

00:09:27.680 innovation is to take people out of that system. And then people will self-select what they learn.

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00:12:39.580 I think you're right. So I think what you're saying, so I'm, I was, well, I want to get to the

00:12:44.480 thing that really bothered me about the statement from Yehuda Kaplan, whoever, who apparently now

00:12:47.860 runs the State Department, he just told us. I did not vote for this, just to be clear, period.

00:12:52.640 The, the... Any of what I just saw, yeah, that guy. But, but you're saying maybe I should calm

00:12:59.160 down a little bit because, like, who cares? History's passing this whole conversation by?

00:13:03.460 I, I, I'm not saying who cares because that was, that was a disgusting display of, I think,

00:13:10.700 parochial interest that you just saw. Yes, that's correct. But we see that often, so I don't get too

00:13:16.440 worked up about it. The, the bigger issue is that Rabbi Yehuda would probably classify you and I

00:13:24.700 as anti-Semitic because we've been critical of some of the policy choices of the Israeli government.

00:13:30.160 And that broad application of anti-Semitism, to say anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism, to, to say that

00:13:38.440 even some things in the Bible may be deemed anti-Semitic if they're critical of Jews at any

00:13:43.180 point. It's, it's so, it has created such a curiosity among young people to test those mores

00:13:53.240 and challenge those dogmas. Like, I think there are a lot of, like, the Mark Levin, Israel First

00:13:58.900 crowd who look at us and say, like, we're the problem. Tucker and Matt are the problem. Actually,

00:14:03.760 we're not the problem. The problem is you lost us. They show these old videos of you being very

00:14:09.940 complimentary of Israel and critical of Israel's critics. You could easily find a lot of my

00:14:15.900 library speaking on the floor of the Congress supporting a strong and robust US-Israel

00:14:19.820 relationship. So two people who in our thirties were incredibly supportive of this relationship

00:14:25.980 have come untethered. And it is because the relationship has become too burdensome and friends

00:14:31.800 should be able to tell that to each other. And when you do, that doesn't make you a bad friend.

00:14:36.820 I still consider myself pro-Israel. I think that what the Netanyahu government is doing to Israel

00:14:41.700 is bad for Israel, much in the way the United States created more terrorists than we killed

00:14:46.300 during the wars in the Middle East that have consumed most of my life. I think that is what,

00:14:52.800 that is the chapter of the book they're in right now. This, this expansionism and the adventurism,

00:14:59.240 and it ends badly. It ended badly for us. Remember, Syria's in the news now because tragically we've

00:15:05.400 lost Americans in uniform in, in Syria and, and a translator there as well. And reasonable people

00:15:11.920 are asking, why are we still in Syria? What are we doing being-

00:15:15.240 So we can lose troops. That's why.

00:15:17.060 That is so sick. And, and- I believe that's true.

00:15:21.600 You believe that, that those people are there so that they can die and trigger a war.

00:15:27.240 That is correct. And a deeper commitment and an emotional commitment. You've lost people here

00:15:31.380 in it. Um, I do think that, and I- When we lost someone in Mogadishu, did that create a deeper

00:15:37.260 emotional connection to Somalia or did that cause Americans to say, what are we doing patrolling

00:15:42.040 around Mogadishu? Well, it allowed the State Department, um, and the rest of the federal

00:15:45.680 government and its constellation of NGOs to import tens of thousands of Somalis into the United

00:15:51.340 States because all of a sudden- Well, that had been happening under, under Clinton, you know,

00:15:55.260 for some time. Yeah. Well that, right. But that, I believe Black Hawk Down was at the, during the

00:16:02.840 Clinton administration. Yeah. Right. So, um, yeah, the, we now have had military action in this

00:16:09.780 country. So there's a, the deep and important connection between our country and whatever

00:16:13.540 country we're killing people in. And so we need to import whoever it is, the Somalis, the

00:16:17.820 Montagnards from Vietnam, whatever. And by the way, some of those groups have done well

00:16:21.740 here. Others have not done well at all, but the pretext is exactly the same. We occupy Haiti

00:16:26.700 repeatedly. All of a sudden we have a ton of Haitians. Like this is how it works. We're fooling

00:16:30.400 with Venezuela policy. Got a ton of Venezuelans.

00:16:32.520 Is that the next chapter here is, you know, you're welcoming a good chunk of Syria into the

00:16:37.240 United States. I mean, a lot of them are already living in Europe.

00:16:39.780 Yeah. And, but let me just say, I've, I've known a lot of Syrians in my life, a lot of

00:16:44.460 Syrian Christians and Alawites and moderate Muslims. It's never been a hotbed of a religious

00:16:48.720 extremism to have a secular government until last year.

00:16:51.640 Damascus was a great secular center of enlightenment and architecture.

00:16:55.420 A lot of the New Testament was written from what's now Syria. So it had a, you know, it's

00:16:59.140 had an ancient Christian presence. Of course, Paul was on his way to Damascus when he met

00:17:02.580 Jesus. So like, this is the Levant. This is not some far away, this is on the Mediterranean.

00:17:07.560 Okay. This is, uh, and so I know some amazing, uh, Syrians also a lot of like war traumatized,

00:17:16.560 unemployed and unemployable, dangerous Syrians. And there happen to be living in Berlin right

00:17:21.120 now. So like, whatever it's, it's a mixed, it's a mixed bag. The only point is the soon

00:17:25.180 as you intervene in another country, all of a sudden, you know, invade the world, import

00:17:29.840 the world becomes real.

00:17:30.560 Yeah. I introduced the legislation in Congress to take all of our troops out of Syria. It

00:17:36.140 was defeated overwhelmingly. And, uh, that was, uh, that was in 2024, uh, last year and

00:17:43.660 on a Paulina Luna court, you know, others. And I took to the floor to explain that this

00:17:48.420 would result in American deaths, that those deaths would not be worth whatever gain is

00:17:53.400 attempting to be realized in Syria. In Syria, we had troops funded by the Pentagon fighting

00:17:59.980 forces funded by the CIA and, and Syria's even an example on the limits of Russia's interventionism.

00:18:06.160 Uh, I, you know, took note of the fact that them propping up a government and trying to

00:18:11.320 keep it loyal was not something that was ultimately sustainable for Russia. And so now, um, you know,

00:18:16.800 we ought to get our troops out. There's no thing that we are fighting for there. That is an

00:18:21.280 achievable win. And what were these guys doing? You hear it on the news now, key leader engagement.

00:18:26.220 Like, you know what that means? That means we've got troops wandering around Syria, figuring out

00:18:30.400 which Bedouin leaders to go bribe as a part of some coalition we can represent. And that is

00:18:35.540 everything Donald Trump is against. Donald Trump doesn't want to import a bunch of Syrians. He

00:18:40.280 doesn't want to control Syria. And I think that, that there is a lot of the military industrial

00:18:45.540 complex that just needs us to be in a state of kind of constant latent war everywhere.

00:18:53.060 Oh, there's no question. And I want to ask you in the, and by the way, just while I'm

00:18:56.700 on the rant, the reason that happens is because in Congress, there's this great sense of deference.

00:19:01.860 Like if you're not on the agriculture committee, you defer to those people. If you're not on the

00:19:05.360 intelligence committee, you defer to those people or the armed services committee. And under

00:19:09.660 a system where people's specializations were being represented in that way, that might work,

00:19:14.160 but it's just a function of which special interests are controlling which committees and which members

00:19:20.300 of Congress. The way you get on the war committee is to be for the wars. The way you to get on the

00:19:25.980 intelligence committee is to be for the intelligence apparatus. The way to get on the agriculture

00:19:30.520 committee is to be for big food. The way to get on the natural resources committee is to be against

00:19:34.820 natural resources. And then when you do all of that, you end up with this, this highly deferential

00:19:40.600 system to people who were elected by no one, who buy off your leaders. And those leaders justify it

00:19:45.880 by saying, well, at least I'm moving up in the system. And thus, whatever I do to surrender my

00:19:50.600 agency is justified.

00:19:52.220 And worth it, because I can have a seat at the table and maybe I can, I mean, I think the moral

00:19:56.440 justification for the person who makes moral compromises is, well, at least now I'm here and

00:20:01.500 I can potentially make things better.

00:20:03.500 Yeah, but you're not even really there because you've sold all the shares of yourself. You know who else was

00:20:07.420 there? Kevin McCarthy. Like he was there until he wasn't. But the problem is the man had no agency

00:20:12.240 because over such a period of time, he had sold shares of himself to the highest bidder.

00:20:18.920 Are there any sovereign leaders in the world that you're aware of? Like, does any leader have the

00:20:22.580 ability to say, this is the right thing or the wrong thing? And I'm just going to act according to

00:20:26.700 how I feel with like the authority vested in me?

00:20:29.620 Yes.

00:20:30.380 Really?

00:20:31.020 Yeah. El Salvador, Naib Bukele.

00:20:34.280 I think he has total agency to just do things, as he says.

00:20:39.860 Huh. How's the country doing?

00:20:41.880 It's doing well. People are safe. Investment is coming. You and I have spent time there.

00:20:47.760 Yeah, a lot of time there.

00:20:48.520 I think that it is a great case study in what happens when you exercise the type of executive

00:20:58.680 power that benefits the people. In a way, if it's a dictatorship, it's a very benevolent

00:21:04.540 dictatorship and people get to vote for or against him and they vote for him.

00:21:09.640 Yeah, they also get to leave. I mean, a third of Salvadorans have left over the past 40 years

00:21:13.680 come to the United States and now a bunch of them are returning.

00:21:16.600 They are. Yeah. I mean, and by the way, like I know out there among your supporters and mine,

00:21:21.960 there's a lot of angst over like, well, you know, has Donald Trump done every single thing

00:21:26.060 I ever wanted him to do in this first year in office? Like if you would have told me back

00:21:30.460 when we were staring at polls showing us that Kamala Harris was going to be the next president

00:21:33.980 of the United States, that here we would be at the conclusion of 2025 with negative net migration

00:21:38.420 immigration in this country. And some of that indeed is the great work of DHS, but a lot of it

00:21:42.460 is the self-deportation where Trump has set the ethic in this country where if you are not here

00:21:47.620 legally, you are not welcome. And a bunch of those people are going home. And I think that is a great

00:21:52.340 credit to the work they've done. It is. And in the case of El Salvador, it's a great credit to the

00:21:56.220 job the president of El Salvador has done in like improving his country. Yeah. Like why not live there?

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00:24:28.240 So I just want to get back to one more question about the State Department's new

00:24:33.640 office on antisemitism and just say again, I'm opposed to antisemitism every bit as much as I'm

00:24:39.160 opposed to anti-white hate, which is much more prevalent, and all of it, anti-black, anti-Mexican,

00:24:45.220 everything. Anti-people. But in there, he says, we need to control what people say on the internet.

00:24:51.900 Yes.

00:24:52.400 And we're going to talk to Jews in the... I mean, he just said that.

00:24:56.820 It's so funny. It's like, do they really think that's going to work? Does anyone think...

00:25:01.360 But that's why should the US government be trying to censor its own citizens? Like,

00:25:04.780 I thought that was, first of all, illegal.

00:25:06.540 I thought we ran against that. That was the Biden administration.

00:25:08.440 But isn't that like, how is that different from slavery? If you can't say what you believe...

00:25:13.440 The bondage part.

00:25:14.620 Yeah. Well, I don't know. It's a form of bondage. It's like, I'm not treating you as a human being,

00:25:19.060 as a free man, if I won't allow you to say what you think. I thought that's what America was. It

00:25:24.480 was the place where you could say what you think.

00:25:26.180 Yeah. The opportunity to do that apparently will be constrained worldwide as Rabbi Yehuda is

00:25:32.700 serving you your kosher food and telling you what you can't say.

00:25:34.440 The US State Department, I thought we were against censorship.

00:25:38.700 Wait a second. You thought the US State Department was against censorship? That's not true.

00:25:42.300 This guy's standing up at some event with a bunch of lunatics saying,

00:25:45.540 I'm censoring Americans and I work for the US government. How about you get fired today?

00:25:50.220 Yeah. I think he was pointing globally. And the US State Department has a long history of

00:25:53.780 trying to control what people see and hear and how they react to that.

00:25:56.580 We need to change the textbooks in Indonesia. Should we really be changing other people's

00:26:01.040 textbooks? Whatever.

00:26:01.680 No, I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that we should not be funding the

00:26:05.860 textbooks that advance martyrdom.

00:26:06.900 No, we should not be funding anybody's textbooks. There are people living on the street. But

00:26:11.680 whatever. Leaving that aside, you're not allowed to censor our social media, period. Because

00:26:19.240 we're Americans, we can say and think whatever we want, that's the point of being American.

00:26:24.380 How can a US official say that?

00:26:26.620 I think we have crossed that Rubicon long ago. When you had people in the Biden administration

00:26:30.520 censoring true information about vaccine side effects and no accountability for that,

00:26:36.400 no action against those officials, it has blown the door open to use powers in government to try

00:26:42.800 to advance the viewpoints that you find comforting and to silence the ideas that you find uncomfortable.

00:26:49.160 I've never heard anybody say we should censor anti-white hate on the internet. Not one person

00:26:53.240 has ever. I don't. By the way, I don't think we should censor it or any expression of what people

00:26:58.140 believe should ever be censored. Do you think censorship digitally is ultimately sustainable

00:27:03.460 with the fragmented digital environment we live in? So that's the point.

00:27:05.960 Because I'm not entirely, I'm not as worked up over it as you are. I know, I know.

00:27:09.400 Because I just, I think that, you know, you've got, we have so many different opportunities

00:27:13.800 to communicate now, more so than in the, you know, 2010s. And the censorship regime is only

00:27:20.580 going to backfire on these folks. And it's sad. I, I honestly, I wish people like, you know,

00:27:27.300 Jonathan Greenblatt at the ADL and, and, and this particular rabbi, like would, would see that what

00:27:32.920 they are doing is ultimately to their detriment because more and more people are going to wonder

00:27:37.180 why there is this like one group that seems to have primacy in speech and discourse.

00:27:43.480 You're a hundred percent right. And you're able to control your emotions sufficient to see that,

00:27:51.180 which is why I'm glad you're here. Controlling emotions really is what I'm, what I'm known for.

00:27:56.180 No, it is actually. Cause you're seeing, at least compared to me, it was no self-control at all.

00:28:01.400 You're seeing the big picture, which is that this is a conversation that can only be counterproductive.

00:28:08.100 They don't understand the nature of human discourse and of the internet. And like, you can't censor it.

00:28:12.360 No. And how are you going to censor the presidential debate stage in 2028? Cause let me walk through

00:28:16.540 what you're going to see. You were going to see candidates on the Republican debate stage and on

00:28:21.960 the Democrat debate stage. They're going to say, I'm going to cut off all aid to Israel. I believe

00:28:26.500 the U S Israel relationship is toxic. I think it is a, it is an abusive relationship and the United

00:28:32.120 States is the abused partner and we need to leave. And those people are automatically going to surge

00:28:37.540 to a prominent position in, in the polling, in their parties. And so then how do you, how are you

00:28:43.860 ultimately going to censor a viewpoint that is a rising viewpoint on the left and the right?

00:28:48.980 Right. Well, this is among the bases of those parties, not, not, this isn't a viewpoint percolating

00:28:54.560 among the elites that maybe the U S Israel relationship is, is something we have to question in its current

00:29:00.760 iteration in its current form, but this is coming to a head. And the, like, I saw the deal where,

00:29:07.220 uh, have you looked at the far filings with the Israeli government is paying to geo-fence

00:29:12.720 U S churches so that they can propagandize evangelical Christians. I'm watching this,

00:29:18.580 like saying, it's not going to work. People are still going to ask questions. Uh, and I still can't

00:29:24.760 find any of the, of Israel's strongest defenders who will defend that conduct. Um, they've also,

00:29:30.460 I guess, hired Brad Parscale to spoof the AI bots. I saw that. And I thought, I thought at least it's

00:29:38.520 like them getting grifted this time. He's pathetic. Uh, but yes, no, I mean, literally pathetic, but,

00:29:44.860 uh, but it's still so dishonorable what he's doing, but you're absolutely right. I should have a lighter

00:29:49.280 heart about this kind of stuff. It's, I, I guess what concerns me is these are people who are

00:29:55.440 totally committed to violence, who, I mean, for rabbi, whatever his name is to say, we need to

00:30:01.040 hold the people of Gaza accountable when they already, the Israeli and the U S have murdered

00:30:06.320 tens of thousands of women and children murdered them. It's like, that's not like what is there anyone

00:30:13.300 who believes that Israel's campaign in Gaza has killed more terrorists than it's created. Is there a

00:30:18.780 single serious person who believes that? Well, it's, it's, it's a crime. It's, it's a crime.

00:30:23.520 And when the more you know about it, the more shocking it is that it's happened, a first world

00:30:27.840 country doing something, murdering all those kids, murdering them, which they have. And all these

00:30:32.620 people like rabbi, whatever, and Mark Levin defending it, they're just pro violence. They believe in

00:30:39.000 violence. Mark Levin, when Charlie was murdered three months ago said, you know, he was murdered

00:30:43.180 because people called him a Nazi and that's an invitation to shoot somebody. Next thing you know,

00:30:46.620 he's running around calling everyone who disagrees with the next aid package, a Nazi. He's espousing

00:30:51.360 violence. Mark Levin's totally for violence. A lot of these stronger voices are for violence. So

00:30:56.440 if censorship doesn't work, it makes me uncomfortable when people who believe in violence and murdering

00:31:02.000 the innocence as they do, if they're, if they can't achieve their goals by peaceful means, like

00:31:07.860 what's the next step? Violence. I think that they come from a viewpoint of like every 400 years,

00:31:13.460 people round up the Jews and kill them on the planet earth. And they think that their struggle

00:31:18.520 is existential. And if they do not become violent in certain places, in certain iterations that they

00:31:24.120 become the victim of it. Okay. I think that's, I look, I get that. And actually one thing that I

00:31:29.560 grieve over, cause I hear about it all the time from friends of mine is that people are panicked or

00:31:34.160 panicked. And then you have a shooting, this massacre in Australia is like the worst thing I've ever,

00:31:38.900 I couldn't even watch the video. It was so horrible. And it's like, that adds to people's

00:31:42.860 sense that there's something like that is going to happen here. And I totally sympathize with that,

00:31:47.420 all of that. But violence is not the answer. That's the point. It's why you can't defend the

00:31:54.040 murder of kids in Gaza. You can't call for your enemies to be killed like Mark Levin in effect does.

00:32:00.260 Don't do that. Right?

00:32:01.820 Yeah. And, um, it, it, it probably is, you know, the next chapter of all of this is that more of

00:32:09.320 that type of violence is visited here in the United States and we're, we're against that. That, by the

00:32:13.640 way, that's why the speech and the dialogue and the discourse is so important, which is what Charlie

00:32:17.400 Kirk understood. I know. And, and, uh, and said so all the time. And I mean, when you, you and I know

00:32:24.420 what few others do, and that is the operational competence of Charlie Kirk in, uh, doing everything

00:32:31.860 he could to support the Trump administration, to make the best possible decisions on the information

00:32:36.960 that existed. And Charlie told me something once about, uh, president Trump and Twitter. And he said,

00:32:42.920 you know, Matt, how many times back in 2016, 2017, did we, uh, did we have someone come up to us and

00:32:49.180 say, we love Trump, but can we get him off Twitter? Can we just get him to stop, uh, tweeting every

00:32:53.940 impulse? And by the way, I always loved the posts still do. Uh, but, um, we, so many people were

00:33:01.320 focused on the information flow from Trump out into the Twitter sphere. When, uh, what we, I think

00:33:08.440 discounted was when Trump was scrolling Twitter regularly, he was getting bi-directional feedback

00:33:15.280 that does not exist right now. Uh, that, that, that avenue is not open the way it was in those years.

00:33:22.180 And I think it was really special and awesome about Trump that he was able to understand the

00:33:27.160 zeitgeist and what the temperature and mood of the country was. And, uh, I would love to see Trump

00:33:33.200 back on Twitter posting regularly and seeing the feedback from users.

00:33:37.980 I think it's a really smart point and true.

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00:37:44.700 What role does Twitter X play in the discourse of the nation?

00:37:49.960 It's the global newswire. It's where news is made. And I think that people discount the

00:37:58.620 significance of the platform when they say it doesn't have the same user base that you see on

00:38:03.360 Meta or TikTok. But the reality is the news that is made on X, Twitter, really pollinates to those

00:38:10.260 other platforms extensively and I think drives all the action.

00:38:14.300 So Twitter is real life, is what you're saying?

00:38:16.160 I think that it is. Yeah.

00:38:18.680 Could you understand what's happening in the country without reading it?

00:38:21.440 I don't think so because you would be limited in the inputs to your system, right?

00:38:31.940 What are your – well, you host a show, but even long before you hosted the show, you're in the

00:38:36.780 middle of the national conversation. You were the subject of the national conversation for a while.

00:38:43.340 Where do you get your information? How do you know what reality is?

00:38:46.440 I try to read a lot. I try to watch cable news as little as possible even though I'm a host of a cable

00:38:53.860 show on One America News. I think we've lost an appreciation for like the 10,000-word piece

00:39:01.060 in society today. I miss the long investigative reporting pieces we used to get at places like

00:39:08.860 the National Pulse and places like Revolver News. And more and more, the attention span of the

00:39:16.640 country is limited and so you've got to be able to convey messages sharply, crisply so that they're

00:39:21.780 absorbed and people can act on the information.

00:39:23.500 Do you read Twitter a lot?

00:39:24.480 I do, yeah. I'm on Twitter a good bit. A Citizen Free Press is one of my daily check-ins for the news

00:39:30.700 as well. And also more and more since I've left government life, seeing how the movement of money

00:39:37.100 impacts policy decisions. I was so into like what was on the next committee agenda, what the next

00:39:43.680 witness would be in the chair. And oftentimes it's the way money moves in global marketplaces

00:39:49.540 influencing events. And I also think this is informative on our discussion on the Middle East

00:39:54.120 because for most of you in my life, the principal capital markets that mattered in the world were New

00:39:59.760 York and London. And I think a lot of people were really comfortable with that. And then as capital

00:40:06.700 has really flown out of these Gulf monarchies, out of the Middle East, you're seeing places like Doha,

00:40:13.580 Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Muscat-Oman, Riyadh emerge as these very significant capital marketplaces.

00:40:22.220 And I think Netanyahu is trying to wash that region in blood and chaos and war migrants

00:40:28.800 so that there is a return to New York and London being the principal capital markets.

00:40:35.140 Yeah. I mean, I saw an Israeli cabinet minister the other day describe, was talking about the Saudis

00:40:41.260 and, you know, go back to whatever, your camels and sleeping with your cousin or whatever,

00:40:47.160 eating lamb in a tent. And, you know, it was dismissive, of course. I'm not even taking sides

00:40:52.540 in it, but it was more than dismissive. It was like idiotic. It's like, have you been there recently?

00:40:56.720 You know, there are not a lot of camels in downtown Riyadh, which has like 8 million people in it.

00:41:01.080 It's like the most modern city on the side of China. I think people don't fully understand

00:41:09.500 how quickly that region has changed.

00:41:12.740 Yeah. And, you know, that change is frightening to people who are losing power.

00:41:18.960 I get it. And I think a lot of those people are the constituency that Netanyahu is serving as he

00:41:24.080 is trying to advance an agenda that will create more war and create more violence. And like,

00:41:29.800 nobody's going to want to do business deals in Doha or Abu Dhabi or Dubai if there are 30 million

00:41:38.980 Iranians that are on the move because they're war migrants.

00:41:42.780 No, that's really, really smart. So I want to get to something. So you sponsored this bill in the

00:41:49.900 Congress in 2024 last year that would have pulled the United States finally out of Syria. And of course

00:41:56.780 it didn't pass. Did you even get to a vote?

00:41:58.920 Yeah, I was able to force a vote on it under our rules. Yeah. I mean, it lost by a margin of two to

00:42:04.020 one. I didn't even have a majority of Republicans.

00:42:05.900 Oh, of course. But the fact that you did that, which by the way, for people who aren't from

00:42:10.760 Washington, that's like a radical act. That's like tea party level. You know, it's like throwing

00:42:15.600 the tea in Boston Harbor. That's like a, no one would do that. Poor Tulsi Gabbard once said like,

00:42:19.760 why do we have to be in Syria? And they spied on her and kept her off commercial airplanes for

00:42:24.380 saying that. So it was a ballsy thing to say, but you've always had this kind of like, you know,

00:42:29.880 independent cast to your thinking. It's been very obvious for a long time.

00:42:35.300 Several years ago, your life got completely blown up. It sounded like you were going to jail.

00:42:40.760 People started calling you a child molester. You're a child molester. I was attacked for

00:42:45.080 talking to you, which is kind of funny. Normally people were attacked for talking to me, but I was

00:42:49.460 attacked for talking to you. But at the heart of that story was foreign influence. And I've never

00:42:57.440 heard you describe what exactly happened there. So in one sentence, news broke in the New York Times

00:43:03.960 at the House Ethics Committee?

00:43:07.420 No, this was, this was, I got news that the Department of Justice-

00:43:11.420 Oh, sorry, it was DOJ. It was a criminal investigation.

00:43:13.580 This was investigating me. And obviously I knew that the allegations were false, that someone

00:43:19.520 was just-

00:43:19.920 You'd be in jail right now if they were true.

00:43:21.200 Obviously. And the fact-

00:43:22.120 You and Andrew Tate would both be in jail, so stop with the bullshit.

00:43:25.040 And by the way, like, no one has ever even made an accusation against me in any forum in which I

00:43:30.940 can depose witnesses, do cross-examination, review records. So like, that's how you know the

00:43:36.000 allegations against me are false. No one is ever willing to make them in any forum where I'm allowed to

00:43:41.420 fight back, where I have any of the tools that you would get in due process.

00:43:44.140 Well, you haven't been charged and brought to court.

00:43:46.260 Charged, sued, anything. And so I-

00:43:49.300 You've never been sued on the basis of this.

00:43:51.020 No, no, of course not. And if anyone were to sue me, a human being would have to stand up and

00:43:55.340 make an accusation against me and have their name behind it. That's never happened. Who is the person

00:43:59.680 who has publicly accused me of misconduct regarding women? It doesn't exist, right? It is just an op.

00:44:06.340 And it was an op to silence me. And Israel was involved. And I hate to say that. I was shocked

00:44:12.320 to learn it. But there was a consulate official-

00:44:15.500 Okay, this is amazing. So this is the charge that you were like trafficking underage girls.

00:44:20.480 It-

00:44:20.940 Absurd.

00:44:21.740 I don't even know what the charge was, but that was the headline.

00:44:23.840 Matt Gaetz traffics underage women. It's like, oh my gosh, can't talk to Matt Gaetz anymore.

00:44:27.740 Well, for us, the shocking moment was when my father, who's a prominent person in our community,

00:44:33.620 got outreach from someone he had never met that said that there were pictures and images of me

00:44:39.640 with underage prostitutes, and my dad needed to meet with these people right away. And so my dad,

00:44:46.340 somewhat surprised and concerned, goes and talks to these people and says, what in the world are

00:44:50.600 you talking about? And they said, well, Mr. Gaetz, we need $25 million from you to go and rescue a

00:44:58.960 a spy that is being held in Iran. And if you do that, we can make these things about your son go

00:45:05.800 away. Which was crazy and wild. We did what any reasonable people would do. We went to the FBI and

00:45:12.120 said that we were being extorted by these folks with their false claims. And we later learned that

00:45:18.480 this consulate official working for the Israeli government was sending text messages to Scott

00:45:24.620 Adams, of all people, the Dilbert cartoonist, saying they were expecting my father to furnish

00:45:30.760 this $25 million payment, and that that would be evidence of my consciousness of guilt.

00:45:37.140 For the American FBI agent grabbed on an Iranian island, maybe 18 or 19 years ago.

00:45:42.420 And I don't know anything about this person. I don't know if the person's dead or alive.

00:45:46.080 But it was troubling and concerning to me that someone who was getting paid by the Israeli

00:45:51.460 government was involved in a criminal shakedown of a U.S. congressman. And someone went to jail

00:45:57.920 for this. Someone, the person who conveyed this message to my father, pled guilty to the attempted

00:46:03.360 fraud. And surprisingly, there was never really an effort to figure out what the government of

00:46:10.580 Israel's involvement was in this matter.

00:46:12.600 But you know that the government of Israel was involved because this was an Israeli government

00:46:17.300 official who was involved in this? Yes. Yes. A person who, his name's Jake Novak. I think he

00:46:21.800 currently works for Real America's Voice. And he sent text messages. Wait, what?

00:46:25.760 Yeah. Yeah. That's the name of the official. And he sent messages to Scott Adams saying that

00:46:31.080 he was involved in this scheme that was later deemed a criminal scheme to shake down my family

00:46:36.600 So what happened to him? He got a television show. Come on now. I didn't know any of this. I'm not

00:46:44.040 playing dumb. I really didn't know that. Have you ever talked to him about it? I have attempted to

00:46:49.960 figure out because obviously I still have a lot of unanswered questions about why he was working for

00:46:55.100 a foreign government and trying to shake down my family. What's the answer, do you think?

00:47:01.160 Well, some have shared with me their concern that this was a consequence of some of the

00:47:07.180 votes and positions I took in the Congress. I represented one of the most military heavy

00:47:11.880 districts in the entire country. I think number one. Yeah, right up there. And I saw these wars

00:47:19.100 in the Middle East that my neighbors and friends had fought in as unworthy of our best, unworthy of the

00:47:28.240 disruptions in parenting and the divorces and the injuries.

00:47:33.060 Suicides, yeah.

00:47:33.540 And so I took the position that we should be less entangled in these things. And I think that really

00:47:40.040 shocked a number of people who thought I would be more of a neocon coming from the district I came

00:47:45.460 from. And I think that with the Israel influence operation, it's always fire and ice. It's always

00:47:53.740 outreach followed by consequence and then outreach and then consequence. Even to this day, there was

00:48:00.460 someone who just appeared and offered to pay me a bunch of money to go to Israel and give a bunch

00:48:05.680 of speeches. And, you know, you decline those offers when you don't feel they're appropriate. And then

00:48:11.120 lo and behold, it's like Greenblatt on the other side of the operation calling you an anti-Semite.

00:48:16.520 This just happened to you?

00:48:19.140 Yeah.

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00:49:21.220 You've got such a, maybe you've just been around, you're younger than I am, but been around a lot.

00:49:25.020 You have such a blasé attitude. Like, yeah, that happens. People try to pay you off, then they

00:49:28.460 threaten you, pay you off, then they threaten you. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, this is the parlance

00:49:33.740 of government. It's a series of carrots and sticks. And, you know, I was the only Republican

00:49:40.440 in the entire Congress during my time there who refused all PAC and lobbyist donations because it

00:49:47.260 was like a game I just didn't want to win. What you have to realize is what most of your Congress

00:49:51.060 is doing most of the time is trying to move up in this system. And sometimes moving up means a better

00:49:56.880 committee. Sometimes it's like getting invited to better dinner parties. We've lived in Washington for

00:50:01.240 many years. You know that there's this like hidden dinner party circuit that is reflective of your

00:50:07.020 influence and your acceptance. And people who are probably good people when they get elected

00:50:12.380 go there and morally compromise for that. And I just like reached a point one time when I just

00:50:18.260 thought, I don't even care. Like, it's like, oh, well, if you do enough favors for the chief deputy

00:50:23.320 whip, they'll invite you to their fundraiser. And then you could move up and the whip could invite you

00:50:29.040 to his foreign trip. And if you say the right things on the foreign trip and kiss the ring,

00:50:34.580 well, then maybe like the majority leader will want you on a task force. And at the end of the day,

00:50:38.520 I thought, I'm not here to do any of this stuff. And I don't really care about any of it.

00:50:41.720 Those are prizes not worth winning, too.

00:50:43.700 Yeah, it's sort of like the homecoming court. Like nobody really cares except the people doing it.

00:50:47.740 The problem is in Congress, the people who are not the brightest and not the, you know,

00:50:53.980 I think most service-oriented often prevail in that system.

00:51:00.460 It's all so low bar. So just pathetic.

00:51:04.760 And it's even more pathetic when really smart, accomplished people do it.

00:51:09.920 That's always what amazed me. If you're like, I'm just a country lawyer from North Florida,

00:51:13.820 been in the legislature, got elected to Congress. I'd never done anything in my life that

00:51:16.680 rendered me a war hero or some tycoon of industry.

00:51:19.940 But those people do get elected at times. And then you just go watch them debase themselves.

00:51:26.080 And they become actors. And the scripts are written by the lobby corps and produced and

00:51:33.700 directed by the leadership.

00:51:36.640 You never took APAC money?

00:51:38.720 I did not. I refused those funds.

00:51:42.260 How did that go for you?

00:51:43.700 I just, you know.

00:51:44.960 Well, I guess you ultimately got blackmailed.

00:51:47.440 I didn't become attorney general.

00:51:48.880 Oh, I forgot about that.

00:51:52.380 But that wasn't precisely about APAC for me. That was just about all of it.

00:51:57.700 I even had groups like the NRA or Right to Life that I was largely aligned with say,

00:52:02.040 well, will you take APAC money? And I just, the whole thing seemed untoward.

00:52:06.300 Like, how do you take money from people who have a specific interest at times hundreds of thousands

00:52:11.460 of millions of dollars and then go stand at the fish house in Pensacola, Florida and tell people

00:52:15.900 you're not influenced by it? I just, I couldn't perform the act anymore.

00:52:19.180 Now, there's, you know, there's, there are other, uh, throughout my time in Congress, there are other,

00:52:23.680 um, kind of accommodations you have to make.

00:52:26.360 Like, I had to be there willing, able, anytime your bookers or anybody else's bookers would call

00:52:32.960 and say, come be on television. Because my theory was, if I wasn't going to have the resources to

00:52:37.240 buy ads, just go be on TV a lot. And, uh, you know, that, that comes with its own compromise to your life

00:52:43.720 and, and, uh, your overall operation.

00:52:46.520 Right. Well, life is a series of traps, right? And sometimes you don't know you're falling into them.

00:52:51.440 Yeah.

00:52:51.840 It seems like a good trade, but it never is. So, but just to go back to what happened to you. So, um,

00:52:57.180 this guy or a series of people approached your dad and said, we have documentary evidence that your

00:53:05.300 son, like photos, photos, slept with underage girls. Will you give us 25 million to go find

00:53:11.080 the FBI agent, Bob Levinson, Levinson. Right. Also working for CIA who was grabbed on this island in

00:53:18.120 Iran, still in custody, dead or alive. Your dad says, no, contacts you, you call the FBI. The person

00:53:26.240 who reached out gets convicted of that goes to jail for it. But this other guy is never punished

00:53:33.500 for it. The one who's working for the Israeli government. And then the story winds up in the

00:53:40.640 New York times. How does it wind up in the New York times? Well, I think that Bill Barr told them

00:53:45.900 Bill Barr was a very well known source for the New York times. Bill Barr was the attorney general.

00:53:51.640 And he hated me and he and I, we were in a big dispute about, uh, his unwillingness to enforce

00:53:59.280 some of the election integrity laws. There was a case in Florida where a Democrat supervisor of

00:54:05.560 elections brought to the U S attorney, a clear instance of fraud where a Soros aligned organization

00:54:10.500 was fraudulently creating voter registrations so that they could request absentee ballots that were,

00:54:15.980 that were ghost votes. And, uh, the U S attorney asked for resources to pursue that investigation.

00:54:23.240 And Bill Barr refused and said, I refuse to investigate any of this stuff because it will

00:54:28.040 decrease confidence in the elections. This was before the 2020 election. And so I was constantly

00:54:33.140 pestering president Trump and, and members of his administration, the bill Barr had to be dealt

00:54:38.400 with on this. You can't just say that you're not going to investigate something because the

00:54:41.600 investigation itself will, uh, will impact people's confidence. And so he and I were in

00:54:48.040 that big struggle and I believe he was angry with me and, you know, uh, wanted to leak things that

00:54:53.540 would hurt me. This is the guy who covered up the murder of an American citizen in federal detention

00:54:58.020 in New York city. Um, I mean the person who was murdered is called Jeffrey Epstein. So I, I understand

00:55:03.840 that I'm not defending Jeffrey Epstein, but no American should be murdered extrajudicially in federal

00:55:09.200 lockup. Right. And Bill Barr covered up that murder. Also, I mean, we're the United States

00:55:12.920 of America. You can't even go in and out of a casino without people knowing that you're there

00:55:18.120 and without it being on every camera. And you're telling me that we don't have the video of Epstein

00:55:23.180 killing himself and that we're all just supposed to expect this guy who we know, we know all those

00:55:28.280 people who are in the admin. Now, my friends, they know Epstein was Intel. They know he was tied to

00:55:33.060 our Intel. They know he was tied to Mossad. They knew he was tied to Saudi. He was a free agent.

00:55:37.420 He was willing to go. And British intelligence. Yeah. And he was willing to go and get this

00:55:41.700 compromise at a time when British, the British and the Israelis and the United States government

00:55:46.920 needed to get people aligned with the Iraq war. And there was a worry that people would drift off

00:55:51.800 and start opposing an increasingly unpopular war in Iraq. And so they got together a bunch of people

00:55:56.760 in academia, politics, media, business, and tried to get them in a compromising situation so that then

00:56:03.500 everyone would stay on board no matter what. That does not sound unlikely. But when he died,

00:56:09.580 Barr, by his own admission, he said, our job is to convince the American public he killed himself

00:56:14.180 and prevent dangerous conspiracy theories from threatening. The guy was murdered. And so Barr is

00:56:19.120 by definition corrupt. Like you can't, attorney generals can't do that. That is totally over the top.

00:56:24.180 So, and he was fighting with you, but you think he's the one who leaked this stuff?

00:56:32.980 Leaks happen in a while. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and pearl clutch over some leak. When I,

00:56:37.820 you know, when the FBI took my phone away, I assumed this was all, you know, when they first came-

00:56:43.520 On what grounds did they take your phone away?

00:56:44.680 Well, they came with a subpoena and said, we want your phone. And at the time I was somewhat relieved

00:56:48.320 because I thought, perfect. If what you think's in my phone is some sort of untoward issue with

00:56:52.880 underage people, have a look. There's, you know, and obviously if I'd committed any crimes,

00:56:58.120 they kept my phone for years. And-

00:57:01.580 They did?

00:57:02.040 Yeah, they did.

00:57:04.400 And you've never been charged with anything?

00:57:06.120 No.

00:57:07.060 What's it like, because we have a justice system, you know, it's still in place, I think.

00:57:11.440 We've got courts and stuff and police and all that. But what's it like to be accused of

00:57:17.860 of a real crime, you know, child sex trafficking, and then sort of wait for all these years to

00:57:25.640 get indicted for it, have someone prove it, and that never happens.

00:57:29.320 Well, I mean, I know who I am. The people around me know who I am. I would, during these

00:57:33.820 investigations, repeatedly run back to my district. And despite Kevin McCarthy spending millions of

00:57:38.720 dollars to try to defeat me, I was always overwhelmingly reelected. And so I took comfort

00:57:43.660 in knowing-

00:57:43.900 But you got reelected in the middle of this.

00:57:45.080 Yeah. Despite, you know, a lot of folks not wanting me to return to Washington. But there

00:57:50.820 is comfort in knowing that, you know, the people will be there for you, your family,

00:57:58.140 the folks you care about. And so I'm not a tragic case by any sense. I wish I would have

00:58:02.600 had the chance to be attorney general. I said a lot of bad things about senators over the

00:58:06.620 years that made that impossible for me to achieve.

00:58:09.280 So walk us through that. So Trump announces you're going to be AG.

00:58:12.780 And I have not campaigned for that position. To be clear, I love President Trump and was there to

00:58:19.760 support his transition as a friend, a confidant, someone who had been there during the tough times

00:58:25.180 in his first term. I mean, the real reason I was hanging around the transition is because I

00:58:29.480 remembered what it was like when you had a good amount of the cabinet hoping that Donald Trump was

00:58:34.320 a criminal and wanting to install Mike Pence. And just the nightmare that that was. So I was there

00:58:39.880 to be a trusted friend. And Charlie Kirk and Stephen Miller and I had talked to a number of

00:58:46.400 people who wanted to be attorney general. And we were presenting some of those ideas to the

00:58:51.960 president. I was advocating for a different person to be the attorney general on a plane ride with the

00:58:57.380 president. And he just sort of, as he has a tendency to do, said that that wasn't who he wanted.

00:59:03.060 And he wanted me to do the job. And you had no idea this was coming?

00:59:07.300 No, none. And it was...

00:59:09.440 So you're telling Trump, actually, I think you should pick so-and-so.

00:59:12.160 Right, right. And I did tell him if he wanted me to do it, I would do my best job. I would work

00:59:16.200 hard to be confirmed. And that I thought I could lead the department out of some of its darkest days

00:59:22.220 and towards something better. I think Pam Bondi has done a very good job. I know she has her critics.

00:59:27.240 By the way, I would have too. Like if I'd have been the attorney general,

00:59:29.860 there probably would be a whole ecosystem saying I wasn't doing enough. But I actually think Pam

00:59:35.620 Bondi's done a good job. And I'm here to be her supporter and advocate.

00:59:39.060 Clearly, you are here to be her supporter and advocate. I disagree. But whatever, I think...

00:59:44.740 But let's get into that, Tucker.

00:59:46.220 Wait, but hold on. I'm not here to attack Pam Bondi, who I know well, and I've always liked Pam

00:59:51.420 Bondi. But you were willing as a sitting member of the Congress and the House to go after

00:59:59.300 your own party when you thought that they were wrong.

01:00:02.240 Yeah. And I think Trump also believed that someone who had been unfairly accused of something

01:00:08.500 and who had endured the grind of that...

01:00:12.040 Would care about justice.

01:00:13.060 Yeah, would be really interested in fixing it. I mean, I think that's why President Trump asked

01:00:18.140 me to do the job is because he saw that I could empathize with those who had been treated unfairly

01:00:23.580 and that I would approach the position with a true sense of justice.

01:00:26.620 I love that. No, I share that view. And I do think the only quality that matters in a leader

01:00:31.780 is strength. So we can oppress people. Weak people oppress others. Strong people have no

01:00:38.960 need to oppress others or rule over others. They can serve others because they're not compensating

01:00:43.580 for the void within them. And I think you would have been the best person I can think of because

01:00:50.100 you've been through it. You didn't collapse. You married a great girl right in the middle of it.

01:00:54.220 You got reelected. Your life shows that you were not destroyed by what happened to you. So you are

01:00:59.260 strong. By definition, that's what we need. And all of America's problems are downstream from weak

01:01:02.960 men, obviously. That's why the women are crazy, because the men are weak. So let's find a strong

01:01:07.800 one to lead a critical agency. That's my primitive view of it, but I think I'm right.

01:01:12.340 What happened? Why did you not get that gig?

01:01:16.500 There were a lot of great people I interacted with in the Senate, but at the end of the day,

01:01:19.860 there was a core block of about half a dozen of them who'd said they would never vote for me. And

01:01:24.840 I could have endeavored to grind that down, maybe win one or two of them possibly over an extended

01:01:32.720 period of time. But you saw the way courts started enjoining the actions of this administration

01:01:38.940 right off the bat. Pam Bondi did defeat nationwide injunctions as a ruling legal theory. And had we

01:01:47.300 not had her and her team lined up to do that, I actually think that we'd be in a very different

01:01:51.420 position today with the deportation agenda. But I mean, look, you know how a lot of my

01:01:58.720 conversations went. I'd be like, yes, Senator, so this is Matt Gaetz. I'm calling about my

01:02:02.720 confirmation for attorney. What was tweeted about you? Now, that was a staffer years ago,

01:02:06.800 and they were fired immediately. Oh, they were that petty. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Several would bring

01:02:13.700 things I tweeted about them to the meetings. Is that really, so the point of your attorney general

01:02:18.780 is not to say mean things about an individual senator? Like, what? Talk about making it

01:02:23.100 about you. Who cares? And then I had one senator from Oklahoma really grill me about my vote

01:02:33.060 against the anti-Semitism bill. So, you know, how can I vote for someone who voted against

01:02:37.480 the anti-Semitism bill? And I'm thinking, like, is this some driving issue in Oklahoma that

01:02:41.980 I'm unaware of? Just mentioning it. Yeah. Langford is such a weak man. It's sad. And

01:02:54.940 is a tool for evil, in my opinion. So, sorry, that's what I think. But despite, you know,

01:03:00.260 having good qualities. But who were the senators who were against you? Do you care to name any

01:03:04.040 of them? You know, I don't know that that's productive. But I think that it would not be

01:03:09.060 difficult to look at the college of senators who have been otherwise problematic for some

01:03:17.400 of Trump's appointees. And that's where I had problems. So you decided to bow out?

01:03:23.260 Yeah. I didn't think that me doing some multi-week, multi-month fight to try to grind down the last

01:03:31.220 of Mitch McConnell was somehow going to help the administration in the end.

01:03:35.020 Can I ask, do you think, just since you know the system so well, because you serve within

01:03:38.560 it most of your life, do you think there's anything you could have traded in exchange for

01:03:42.940 their support? I don't know. I don't know. I oftentimes couldn't get a meeting, you know,

01:03:49.960 with people like Senator Murkowski and Senator Collins. They were not interested in even having

01:03:54.460 a discussion with me. So it would have been hard to execute a trade.

01:03:58.260 I mean, I think part of the problem is you're not the kind of guy who makes those trades.

01:04:02.220 And that's why they opposed you in the first place.

01:04:04.540 Well, and I think also there's something unsettling about my unpredictability. You know,

01:04:09.920 people who read the script are easy to predict and manage.

01:04:17.540 So you wind up with a government and business, you wind up with a whole society run by weak

01:04:23.400 people.

01:04:25.140 Not at the top. Trump's pretty strong. And I think Vance is strong. And I think Suzy Wiles is strong.

01:04:30.000 But there's no doubt about what you just said. But no, I mean, beneath the very, you know,

01:04:34.780 you're talking about the pinnacle of the pyramid. I mean, like all the way down.

01:04:38.420 They're just, everyone's so weak. And that's where evil thrives is in weakness.

01:04:44.600 Weakness and risk aversion.

01:04:46.860 And risk aversion is fundamentally anti-American. We are a nation of risk takers at our best moments.

01:04:52.640 That's who we are. But in government, it's often, you know, how do I avoid any attention

01:04:59.220 or ire? I do think that, you know, probably the riskiest thing we've seen is what Obama got

01:05:05.080 everybody together to do on December 9th of 2016 when he ordered the Russia hoax. I think that is

01:05:11.940 really the original sin of a lot of this that has happened. And, you know, I certainly would have

01:05:18.340 brought a RICO charge against the people who were involved in that decision-making process and

01:05:23.140 participating in the various predicate criminal acts. I wouldn't be surprised if that's precisely

01:05:28.660 what Pam Bondi does. When the Biden FBI raided Trump's house, they engaged in a predicate criminal

01:05:39.580 act to try to get information back that was exculpatory as to Trump. From my standpoint,

01:05:44.900 that would properly venue a RICO charge against the major players in the deep state in the Southern

01:05:51.020 District of Florida, rather than in Washington, D.C., where they have an administrative and judicial

01:05:56.680 advantage. So the Russia hoax was predicated on something that I'm pretty sure was a lie, which is that

01:06:03.960 the Russian government stole a tranche of emails from the DNC earlier that year. But it got reinvigorated

01:06:11.880 after. Of course it did. All of that got dispensed with. Then Trump won, which people weren't expecting.

01:06:17.180 And Obama, on December 9th, calls in Clapper, Brennan, Comey, and says, you guys have got to go

01:06:22.240 out and reignite this Russia thing. And in that effort, you see all of this offense against George

01:06:29.300 Papadopoulos. Oh, I remember. You see the activation of foreign intelligence networks to try to create

01:06:36.760 some predicate for spying on the Trump campaign. And where does that leave us? I think in almost a post-coup

01:06:45.960 country. Well, we're literally at war with Russia today as a result of this hysteria, which was all the

01:06:51.820 kind of predicate for that war. And, you know, it's just the human cost. There was a real discussion in the

01:06:57.720 90s going on about extending NATO membership to Russia, which is what we should have done.

01:07:02.000 What do you mean? Putin, in his first meeting with George W. Bush, was like right at the beginning of

01:07:07.040 2020, 2001, said, I want to join NATO. Imagine where we would be right now if the United States

01:07:16.220 and Russia had created peace and a security infrastructure around Europe, I think appropriately

01:07:22.220 position NATO as an alliance against the excesses of Sino expansion. It would be a safer world. It would be a

01:07:29.020 more prosperous world. Of course, all the way to Asia because Russia extends into Asia. And right. So you would

01:07:35.180 have a Western bloc of not identical countries. Russia's got a different system, different culture, different

01:07:40.760 language, different history. But so many aligned interests with NATO when it comes to countering

01:07:45.700 extremism, having strong borders, you know, all of the things that trade, trade, one of the most mineral

01:07:51.800 dense countries in the world, right? It's basically a Western country produced Dostoevsky. And don't,

01:07:57.200 don't tell me otherwise. Anyway, yeah, I couldn't agree more. But I just want to get to this something

01:08:02.400 I've never gotten past, which is the question of whether the Russian government stole those emails

01:08:08.840 from the DNC during the Democratic primary. And then this DNC staffer called Seth Rich is murdered

01:08:15.740 in Washington, D.C. in a robbery in which his wallet is not taken. And a number of conservative,

01:08:23.760 conservative people who call themselves conservatives went on TV and said, I think Seth Rich was murdered

01:08:30.780 because he knew too much. And then those people were either sued or threatened with lawsuits from

01:08:35.400 Seth Rich's family. So everybody shut up about it. And then Julian Assange is asked repeatedly,

01:08:41.640 who runs WikiLeaks at the time before they sent him to prison for talking like this,

01:08:46.020 did the Russians send you that information? And he goes, no. Did Seth Rich? And he says,

01:08:52.560 we're not going to talk about that. So the heavy implication is that Seth, and I don't know the

01:08:55.960 answer, despite knowing Julian Assange, but the heavy implication was that Seth Rich sent this

01:09:02.780 information because he was offended by how the DNC was taking Bernie Sanders out, was basically all

01:09:10.740 behind Hillary Clinton. It was a rigged election, and they were crushing Bernie Sanders, and he was

01:09:15.340 offended, so he leaked these emails. And they killed him for it. And no one was allowed to talk about that.

01:09:19.520 Now, I don't know if that's what happened, but I knew someone at a very high level of the DNC who

01:09:22.860 thought that's what happened. And no one's ever talked about it again.

01:09:26.180 We in Congress had people that were doing various roles within the DC Police Department

01:09:33.840 come and say, we want to be whistleblowers, and we want to talk about the way in which this

01:09:39.940 investigation was truncated. And we didn't get to really do the-

01:09:44.360 No, the FBI took over.

01:09:45.520 Yeah, do the shoe leather work. But there's a way that the FBI can involve themselves in these

01:09:51.720 investigations that doesn't strip the agency completely away from their partners to also

01:09:57.040 participate. And so these whistleblowers were concerned about that. And then, you know,

01:10:01.020 ultimately, they weren't really given much of a platform and disappeared.

01:10:04.400 Well, we never saw Seth Rich's laptop. And that story just ended. And I'm not alleging-

01:10:08.780 But isn't the tell in that how it kept shifting? Like, first, it was the emails. And then it was

01:10:15.980 Vladimir Putin had taken over Facebook with $120,000. And then it was actually like George

01:10:22.000 Papadopoulos in a London bar. Then it was Don Jr. at Trump Tower. It was an effort to obscure the lack

01:10:33.160 of quality in any of these theories by just having a sufficient quantity of them.

01:10:37.060 Well, that's always- That's called flooding the zone. And that's what happened. I'm watching

01:10:42.600 that happen right now. That's what always- That is the most classic move of anyone involved

01:10:48.980 in a PSYOP, the Intel community. Yeah, you just- You see this with UAPs. It's pretty obvious

01:10:55.260 what they are, actually, in my view. But no, it's this. It's men from Mars. It's an advanced

01:11:01.040 technology program. It's like, whatever. Yeah, they flood it with too many theories. And you

01:11:05.940 think that's what happened there? Of course, because none of the theories could individually

01:11:09.160 hold water. And I had a recent conversation with CIA Director John Ratcliffe, and I like John,

01:11:15.240 but I chastised him for not answering some of these fundamental questions. Joseph Mifsud was this

01:11:23.480 professor who was drawn into an intelligence operation against the United States. He was drawn

01:11:28.520 into that operation either by the United States or one of our allies. How do we not know the answer

01:11:32.220 to that question? This was the key thing that we said we were going to uncover when we got power.

01:11:38.880 And I know they got a lot of work to do to keep the country safe, but I would encourage the Director

01:11:43.600 of the CIA to really tell us the CIA's role. What's the answer, do you think?

01:11:47.840 Well, I believe that some of this crowd in the Obama administration knew that their direct management

01:11:56.080 of an asset against the Trump administration would create paperwork, payments, complicating things that

01:12:02.120 could be found out. And so they went to other European countries and said, you know, you do us a favor,

01:12:08.360 we do you a favor, but the favor we want from you is actually to go against our country, our presidential

01:12:13.700 candidate, Donald Trump. And that is treasonous. That is straight treason to ask another country to attack

01:12:19.940 your country. And I think that occurred. And I think that if we knew who had authorized that,

01:12:26.840 we would have a person to be at the center of this Broderico conspiracy.

01:12:32.140 Yeah. And traditionally, it's been Britain and France who play that role.

01:12:36.700 Huge intel presence in Italy as well.

01:12:39.240 Exactly.

01:12:39.960 It's one of the biggest CIA.

01:12:41.080 And now with the growth of NATO under this war, it's Romania, it's Eastern Europe, it's wherever you

01:12:46.600 have a NATO base, you have, there are a lot of other things that come with it, of course. So you've

01:12:51.360 seen this a lot where American political actors or IC members in the United States use foreign

01:12:57.460 governments to do their work for them.

01:13:00.560 Yeah. And I am concerned that that doesn't just happen abroad, that that happens even within the

01:13:07.280 eight square miles of Washington, D.C.

01:13:09.680 Did you feel when you worked there that there was a lot of intrigue?

01:13:13.120 Yeah. There's always intrigue. But I think that a lot of the decisions that get made in Washington

01:13:21.260 are detached from the elected leaders. And there probably should be more intrigue, actually.

01:13:27.780 Our lawmakers should be more curious and inquisitive and skeptical.

01:13:33.440 What do you mean a lot of the decisions that are made are detached from elected leaders?

01:13:36.820 Well, look, take these bills that get written, right? Do you think that anyone who voted for

01:13:42.580 the One Big Beautiful Bill Act was trying to outlaw hemp? It just was stuck in the bill. And then

01:13:48.580 they voted for it. And however you feel about hemp, I think it's kind of crazy that an issue wouldn't

01:13:55.660 even get its own dignity. The lashing together of disparate issues for just an up or down vote that

01:14:02.100 kind of becomes a shirts and skins exercise is a way to detach from the realities of the decision

01:14:10.300 making. And those decisions are made by staff, by interest groups, by foreign countries at times.

01:14:17.560 What's going to happen in the next two election cycles?

01:14:20.200 I think we are headed for a bloodbath in the midterms for a few reasons, primarily history.

01:14:26.780 Uh, you, the president's party loses seats during the midterms. I don't think I'm breaking any news

01:14:31.820 there. Um, uh, and I think that, uh, the other side just really worked up and they, they have an

01:14:38.820 organizing principle. The organizing principle of the left in America today is we hate Trump and they

01:14:44.740 don't really need any more than that. And there's something elegant politically about using that to

01:14:50.000 activate voters. Yeah, totally. Whereas we're trying to tell people to reward us for securing the

01:14:55.760 border and voting is rarely an exercise in rewarding prior conduct. It is always about

01:15:03.920 new promises. Uh, what are the new promises you're making? And right now, a lot of people have economic

01:15:09.980 anxiety around the cost of living. I think the Democrats again have an elegant presentation to

01:15:15.420 make, which is we're going to take the things that cost you a lot of money and have the government

01:15:19.920 provide those to you. And then those things won't cost you a lot of money. And we try to make an

01:15:24.780 argument about economic theory that doesn't always land with the same poignance.

01:15:29.680 So midterms in a year, very tough. Yeah, we, I think, I think Hakeem Jeffries becomes the speaker.

01:15:35.600 I think that, uh, they will then be cut. The problem is the candy becomes the poison for them

01:15:42.380 because, uh, when they do this big elect us so that we can use all these tools to fight Trump,

01:15:49.320 then once, once they get that power, they're going to be pressed to continually use the silliest ones.

01:15:56.280 And think about what they've already used. They've already used like the, the attempted application

01:15:59.920 of criminal law that backfired. They already used the impeachment process that backfired.

01:16:04.800 And so what I, what I think Democrats believe, or, or what they've recently been conditioned to

01:16:09.840 believe is that shutdowns are good for them under Trump, that that's good politics. So my prediction

01:16:15.200 is Democrats win the midterms. They execute a series of ransom, like shutdowns, uh, on Trump.

01:16:22.420 The country gets weary of that and probably elects J.D. Vance president in 2028.

01:16:27.680 What's the field look like in 2028?

01:16:29.640 On, on our side?

01:16:31.800 I mean, I'm just assuming that there will be, you know, Ted, I mean, Ted Cruz is running, I guess.

01:16:37.600 Against you apparently, which is like, I've never seen that. It's, it's odd to have someone running

01:16:43.380 for president against the, the, the, the organizing principle of their campaign is to attack someone

01:16:48.180 else who is not running for president. It's, it's a novel theory for Ted, but you know,

01:16:53.440 Ted, what is that to you? Ted and Ron DeSantis, uh, both want to be president really bad, but

01:16:57.180 they're just, they suffer from a likability problem and they're not really having a good

01:17:01.500 time. And when you run for president, when you run for president, there's an element of

01:17:07.880 it where the people have to feel like they're a part of something fun. And that's something

01:17:11.940 Trump understood. That's something Charlie Kirk understood. And, you know, for, for Ron

01:17:16.680 and Ted, it is, uh, you know, the campaign is sort of something they have to do in order

01:17:21.320 to get the power that they seek.

01:17:23.020 So what is that intent? I mean, I could see, you know, Ron DeSantis has been really successful

01:17:26.860 in a lot of ways.

01:17:27.940 I would vote for him again for governor. If he could run again for governor of Florida,

01:17:30.920 I would too. I would too. Despite the fact he signed a hate speech law in Israel, which

01:17:35.800 is like so offensive to me as an American, not because I'm against Israel, but we don't have

01:17:39.800 hate speech laws in the United States. And when we do, we don't sign them in foreign

01:17:42.520 countries. So I, you know, whatever.

01:17:44.280 But you'd still vote for him again.

01:17:45.780 I would.

01:17:46.040 For governor of Florida?

01:17:46.800 Yeah.

01:17:47.100 Oh, without thinking about it.

01:17:48.600 For sure. I think he's been a great governor. You know, you could, whatever, quibble about

01:17:52.440 it, but generally, no, he's been great. I totally agree. But Ted Cruz is not going to

01:17:58.580 be president.

01:17:59.340 No.

01:17:59.940 Obviously, nobody thinks that. I'm sure Mrs. Cruz doesn't think that. She probably wants to

01:18:03.160 get out of the house. Who knows what's going on? But why doesn't Ted, who's famously,

01:18:07.520 obviously the smartest person in America, why can't he see that?

01:18:10.620 Well, I think that as we were discussing earlier, running for president is an itch that doesn't

01:18:16.820 go away with one scratch. I think that, you know, he believed he should have defeated Trump

01:18:21.660 in the 2016 election and he's toiling in the Senate until he gets the next bite at the

01:18:26.120 apple. I think on the other side, I would have believed before Kamala Harris that the

01:18:31.580 Democrats had nominated their last straight white guy.

01:18:34.520 Yeah, I would think so too.

01:18:35.580 Yeah, that's just not, I mean, it is, you know, it is a movement that stands against

01:18:40.040 straightness and white people.

01:18:42.060 Is Gavin straight?

01:18:43.480 I, I, I, he seems to be pretty enthusiastic heterosexual based on some of his personal

01:18:49.180 conduct.

01:18:49.720 Again, no judgment.

01:18:49.980 You never know. It could be an omnivore. There's some of those.

01:18:53.420 Yeah, we're not the bedroom police.

01:18:55.280 Oh, no, I don't even want to think about it, honestly.

01:18:57.920 But Newsom has at least demonstrated power. And I think that is what Democrats have lacked

01:19:05.420 in this time in the wilderness, in the Trump era, is that no one steps up and says, I'm

01:19:09.680 ready to use power effectively. And when Gavin Newsom stole those congressional seats with

01:19:15.160 Prop 50 in California, it was an effective exercise of power. And I think voters may reward

01:19:21.120 him for that. You know, someone else in the Democratic Party who wants to be president

01:19:25.480 told me that it was actually Kamala Harris who has like reignited the prospects of Gavin

01:19:31.480 Newsom. If they'd have just run Biden and lost, they would have never gone back to another

01:19:35.280 straight white guy. But rolling out Harris and the embarrassment that that was has people

01:19:41.040 thinking, well, you know, maybe we don't want to try this again.

01:19:43.980 No, that's, that's, I believe that. Just knowing what they're like, they're just, they're just

01:19:48.580 transactional. They just want power. That's it. They don't have any beliefs. They just want

01:19:51.400 to be in charge. And I get it. I find it terrifying. But that's who they are. And I also think that

01:19:57.640 when Gavin started going on conservative podcasts, that's when I was like, ooh, you are formidable.

01:20:03.700 I mean, he didn't, you know, defend his own policies very effectively. It didn't matter. He,

01:20:08.660 he like went on other people's podcasts and took questions. Ballsy.

01:20:13.080 Yeah. Well, that in, that in, in essence is an indictment of Harris because Harris could not

01:20:18.200 exactly have an extended intelligent conversation about anything. And so just getting over the most

01:20:23.920 basic of hurdles to be able to string sentences together was this great display of talent in the

01:20:28.820 democratic. And he'll say anything. He just doesn't. Yeah. But look at what they've been

01:20:31.860 through, right? Joe Biden never did extended discussions. Harris never did extended discussions.

01:20:36.720 So he was giving the base, at least some viewpoint into, into his thinking on things.

01:20:41.840 So do you think Gavin will be the nominee? Right now, I would say so. I think that AOC is going to

01:20:47.800 make a compelling run and I think she will be formidable as well. You really do? If Bernie really

01:20:54.120 does the handoff, like you and I, like Bernie has this like a kind of goofy professor persona,

01:20:59.900 but in reality, Bernie's like a deeply selfish person. He's selfish. And a coward. He's a total

01:21:05.480 coward. And he believes he is the leader of the democratic party. Does he really? Well,

01:21:09.920 but he's won every argument in it. Maybe he is the leader of the democratic party. Like

01:21:13.980 if you look on policy, Bernie is, has won the argument on this shift towards socialism,

01:21:19.520 but you know, they, the party structurally did things twice to stop him from becoming the

01:21:25.500 nominee. They stole the election from him twice. Yeah.

01:21:29.480 And he sat back and was like, Oh, I've been kind of a sexist. I'm sorry. I mean, he's such a

01:21:34.560 fucking coward. I can't deal with it. If he was real, at least I would respect it. AOC, same thing.

01:21:42.240 Yeah. AOC is a very different person today than when she got to Congress, you know, in terms of

01:21:47.360 corrupted, co-opted, uh, completely. Oh, the Gaza war is fine. It's like, what?

01:21:52.680 When we were ousting McCarthy, like she came up to me and was like, you know,

01:21:56.780 I really respect this because I'll be honest, we don't have the guts to do this on our side.

01:22:00.840 What's she like? Uh, before January 6th, she was incredibly chummy with Republicans in Congress

01:22:06.900 would regularly come over to our side, sit down, hang out, talk about her day.

01:22:11.640 Did you ever date her?

01:22:12.580 I did not. No.

01:22:13.620 Did you try?

01:22:14.000 No. And, uh, not my cup of tea, but she, uh, after January 6th, uh, like treated us

01:22:20.600 all like, you know, we had horns or something.

01:22:22.800 So she gave this kind of famous statement after January 6th and said, you know, as a trauma

01:22:26.900 survivor, I was traumatized. I was almost killed that day. Do you think, was that real?

01:22:33.180 No, but it is reflective of the performance art of, of Congress and it was just bad performance.

01:22:40.360 But how could you get points from anyone for being like, yeah, I'm a, I'm a terrified

01:22:44.180 little girl because on, I find that contempt. Well, you can't be in charge of anything if

01:22:48.460 you're a terrified little girl. Sorry.

01:22:49.580 But we are a society that is increasingly built on grievance identity. Um, you are the, the,

01:22:56.500 the grievance that you can access. Right. And so if you are, uh, you know, a woman, that's

01:23:01.620 can be a source of grievance if you're a minority. And then like you have, you have people who are

01:23:05.780 just odd and say, well, maybe if I'm trans, then that can be this source of grievance.

01:23:10.360 And then you have a bunch of men, white men looking around saying, well, I guess I'll

01:23:13.720 be a drug addict because then like that can be my, my source of grievance. And, uh, you

01:23:18.580 know, there, she was leaning into that. She wanted to show that she had been aggrieved by

01:23:23.400 this act and, and should be owed some, some unique empathy.

01:23:26.760 But she revealed that she's afraid is that she's a coward. Like, how is that? The only

01:23:33.980 thing people respect on a gut level is strength and courage. That's it. So I just don't, I

01:23:40.600 don't get like, what's the, you really think that works?

01:23:42.120 And sincerity. I mean, yeah. Strength, courage, and sincerity.

01:23:44.160 Well, sincerity grows from strength and courage. I'm brave enough to tell you what I really

01:23:49.040 think.

01:23:49.320 Yeah. And I, I got to a point where I was, I was confident enough with my district where

01:23:54.980 I could say the things I believed that I knew they didn't. Uh, because even if they disagreed

01:24:00.400 with me on a subject, uh, there, they knew I came to that view sincerely that I wasn't

01:24:04.900 holding a marijuana legalization is something you and I disagree on. Uh, I, I disagreed with

01:24:09.900 a majority of my constituents on that point. I authored Florida's marijuana law. I support

01:24:14.760 President Trump rescheduling marijuana. And, uh, the, when, when people at my first Baptist

01:24:21.840 church in Fort Walton Beach, Florida came up to me to say they really disagreed with me

01:24:25.940 on that, uh, they did not vote against me as a consequence because they knew that, that

01:24:30.500 these were views that, that I sincerely hold.

01:24:33.240 Well, I, I, I could be one of those congregants at the Baptist, if I were Baptist, in the Baptist

01:24:38.540 church, because I, I agree with that. You know, I don't expect people to agree with all

01:24:42.440 of my eccentric views or my heartfelt views. It's okay. We're different people, but can't

01:24:47.180 deal with falseness at all.

01:24:49.620 And, and that I think was the magic of Trump. And I think that's a magic that he knows he

01:24:53.900 needs to reignite on the campaign trail going into these midterms, the, the connection directly

01:24:58.280 with the American voter that no matter who you are, if you're the president and behind

01:25:02.940 the resolute desk and in the Rose garden, it's a different experience than being out on the

01:25:07.660 trail in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

01:25:09.140 Yeah. So what's AOC's lane? Is it the, the Bernie lane?

01:25:14.000 Okay. But the Bernie lane was an economic lane, which I always had respect for. I didn't

01:25:17.960 agree with all of it, but we've got too many billionaires and not a big enough middle class.

01:25:23.120 That's true. That's factually true. And anyone who says that, I will agree with. And he used

01:25:26.880 to say that.

01:25:27.360 And the open borders lane.

01:25:28.360 I mean, totally.

01:25:29.300 Well, there two are related. I mean, we have all these billionaires because we've had open

01:25:32.360 borders.

01:25:32.880 They were always. I mean, Bernie at one point, as part of his like pro-American worker agenda

01:25:37.560 was actually for restricted immigration.

01:25:39.300 No, no, no. I'm saying they're related in that.

01:25:41.200 But it's the AOC corollary. It's to take the Bernie social issue, like economic socialism

01:25:45.800 and lash it to unchecked border borders.

01:25:48.300 If you care about the lopsided economy where all the wealth is concentrated in too few

01:25:54.760 hands and the country's becoming unstable as a result, it's becoming pre-Java's Venezuela,

01:26:00.000 we're going to get a revolution if this continues. I wrote a book about this.

01:26:03.780 If you care about that, you have to ask, how did that happen? And the main way it happened

01:26:07.860 was by unchecked immigration, which devalued labor. People have less economic power because

01:26:13.900 there are more people willing to work for less. It's really simple. It's the way organized

01:26:16.680 labor always supported immigration restrictions. They're the ones who got them in 1924. They

01:26:22.100 closed the borders for that reason. And Bernie was from that tradition and I always respected

01:26:26.840 it. And then he became this kind of, you know, neoliberal hybrid where he's like, oh, we got

01:26:32.020 to fight Russia and it's racist to be against borders. And like, what? You know what I mean?

01:26:38.140 We have to send money to Israel. What? Like, so I don't think that's a real lane. I don't

01:26:42.980 think it's sustainable lane. Do you? It is a sufficient cohort of voters to virtue signal

01:26:48.900 kind of a reignition of Bernie's economic policies alongside. Like she will stand up and say,

01:26:56.220 no more money for Israel, no more money for ICE and universal basic income for Americans and open

01:27:02.820 borders. That would be the core of the campaign.

01:27:05.980 Open borders with universal basic income and print more. By the way, like, I mean,

01:27:10.940 did you see what we just did in the economy in this past week? We are, we are printing money to

01:27:15.260 buy our own debt right now. The self-licking ice cream cone, the electric windmill.

01:27:22.860 I know. There's right. How much of it is real when we're printing money to buy our own debt?

01:27:30.620 Yeah. And the explosion of personal wealth among people I know is just unbelievable. Not me, but I,

01:27:39.220 at all, but I, all of a sudden, you know, people who are just like, you know, worth hundreds and

01:27:45.260 hundreds of millions of dollars. Whereas I never, and I grew up in rich people world. I never really

01:27:49.880 knew anyone with hundreds and hundreds. One in every 10 Americans is a millionaire now.

01:27:53.260 Actually? Yeah. You're including assets. Yeah. Yeah. Well, homeowners are millionaires now.

01:28:01.420 So. Well, and that, you know, if you talk about the revolution coming, I mean, housing is as likely

01:28:05.820 to be a part of that as anything else because the way housing is indexed to what people make and what

01:28:11.100 they can afford is insane in this country. Yeah. And I'm totally opposed to revolutions. However,

01:28:16.440 if there was ever a reason to have one, it's that. That's a, that's a real grievance. I think

01:28:20.740 that's totally. Isn't it kind of what all revolutions are about? Like, where am I going to live? What's

01:28:24.920 going to. Yeah. And how do my kids have kids? You know, how does this continue? How do my genes

01:28:28.840 thrive when I'm gone? I mean, yeah. Have you noticed this trend online where all these like

01:28:33.120 lonely women in their thirties are making car selfie videos about their personal anguish that

01:28:38.240 they can't find men? I posted one recently, got millions of views and it, what, what's so like,

01:28:43.620 I feel, I feel, I feel sad. Oh, so sad. I mean, my wife has so many friends who are

01:28:50.380 beautiful, accomplished, wonderful people, but they cannot find men. They cannot find

01:28:55.100 men to marry them. And they start to feel the clock ticking and it's, it's really a lonely

01:29:01.780 world out there. Well, I think it's important to identify how we got here and certain bad

01:29:06.000 ideas played a huge role. Feminism, which is like just a total lie on every level, but

01:29:10.720 also the way the economy is structured where businesses decided to be a good idea to bring

01:29:16.500 women into the workforce, a better idea than say, like supporting families or allowing people

01:29:21.400 to have children, like was more important to have female workers than it was to have

01:29:25.680 American families. This is a constant discussion we have on, on my one American news program

01:29:30.080 is like, can you have both? Cause I do see women who excel in the workplace, who build businesses,

01:29:36.460 who have great ideas and are the center of their family. Well, I certainly know a lot of women in the

01:29:42.580 workplace who are amazing. And if women left the workforce, you know, my business would fall apart

01:29:47.860 and they're the best. And anyone who's an employer, I'm a small bore employer will tell you female

01:29:54.760 employees, man. There are some jobs type a women. Well, that's crushing. That is a hundred percent

01:30:00.120 rate, of course. And, uh, and they're also like just the greatest people to work with if you're a man,

01:30:05.320 because there's no competition. They're so nice. They're always nice. I've, I've, I'm 56. I've never

01:30:11.000 had a dispute with a woman at work ever. Not one. I've seen them mistreat each other in a way the

01:30:16.760 North Koreans could learn from. It's like truly cruel the way they behave to each other. But if

01:30:21.940 you're a male employer having female employees, it is a hundred percent upside. They will never stop

01:30:27.540 thinking about their job. They will never stop being nice to you. They're great at their job.

01:30:32.540 Certain jobs, they're the only ones who can do it because they do. Do you think men are out there

01:30:36.300 looking for jobless women? Cause I certainly wasn't when I was like, you know, single and trying to find a

01:30:40.740 wife. I was not out there like seeking someone who had nothing else going on, but to serve me

01:30:47.220 in a marriage. I think it's people's passions and women will choose their family if given their

01:30:52.080 choice. And some won't, I mean, there's anomalies in every cohort, but, but what do you say to the

01:30:57.600 ones who are like, I want to make that choice? This millions of women out there that are like,

01:31:02.200 please present me the guy who isn't spending all this day playing Fortnite and, you know,

01:31:07.820 hanging out at the tattoo parlor? Well, look, the first thing to know is men and women need each

01:31:11.000 other. They can't exist separately or they're destroyed. They destroy themselves a hundred

01:31:15.260 percent. They fit together like puzzle pieces and they can't live alone. Again, there are exceptions

01:31:19.880 to all of these rules, but overpopulations, these are hard and fast rules that have existed since

01:31:23.820 Adam and Eve. So it's just a fact. And if you ignore that fact, you'll be destroyed. And we are

01:31:27.800 because we've ignored it. So most women, if given the choice between going to work at JP Morgan or

01:31:35.900 staying home and raising their small children, will of course choose staying home and raising

01:31:40.700 their small children. If they're given the choice, they're not given the choice because feminism,

01:31:43.940 total fucking lie. There are no choices. Get to work.

01:31:47.040 Well, oftentimes it's people's economic conditions that take the choice away.

01:31:49.680 If you're sitting on $130,000 in student loans, because you were told that you had this great,

01:31:54.460 that's the point I'm making. They don't have a choice. That's why they do it. And it's

01:31:59.000 a Hobson's choice. But it's not marital bondage as much as it's economic bondage

01:32:02.600 to debt. Marriage isn't bondage for women. Marriage, family is the context in which women

01:32:09.820 have the most power. Women have no power outside of their relationships. Women are relational.

01:32:14.260 So if you want to empower women... They can have power in business. They can have wealth.

01:32:17.620 They can have money. That's not power. That's not power.

01:32:20.780 Who has more power over you? Your employee or your mom? Your employee or your wife? Your

01:32:26.860 employer or your daughter? Real power is the power to influence other people. And women

01:32:33.460 outside the family have very little. Within the family, they have huge power. There's no

01:32:37.520 man...

01:32:37.920 Almost all of it.

01:32:38.800 Almost all of it. There's no man who ignores his wife. There's no son who ignores his mother.

01:32:42.980 There's no father who ignores his daughter. And so, I mean, there may be, but they're freaks.

01:32:48.300 The average man is influenced by women in the family more than any other place. So if you

01:32:53.840 want to empower women, put them at the center of a family. If you want to disempower them,

01:32:58.120 put them at the center of Citibank. It's super simple. And liars and dumb people, like a

01:33:03.640 fucking feminist, like, oh, real power comes from money and job title. And it's like, that's

01:33:08.640 a lie. And anyone who believes that is an idiot.

01:33:11.900 But they think it's their power to get a man. Like, there was this theory that the way you

01:33:16.420 prepare yourself to get the husband you want is to showcase, like, your LinkedIn resume

01:33:21.620 and your...

01:33:23.460 Who told them that?

01:33:25.420 You don't think there are a lot of women who are going to watch this program, they may have

01:33:29.360 tuned out by now, and say, yeah, like, I actually thought if I had the big job and had the house

01:33:36.240 that a man would want me more.

01:33:37.560 Are you being serious?

01:33:38.200 Yes.

01:33:38.360 I mean, look, I shouldn't be surprised if people believe dumb things, because look around.

01:33:41.700 But that's the dumbest of all. Look, imagine believing that and now being caught.

01:33:47.400 How much social science do we need? First of all, we don't need any because we just know

01:33:51.120 our lived experiences. But there's a lot of study on this. If you're interested, I happen

01:33:54.980 to be. Women do not want to marry men who make less than they do, period. In any society in

01:34:01.020 which that becomes the case, you find marriage dropping off a cliff. That's what happened in

01:34:05.200 black America. Black people used to be married like everybody else. Then black women started

01:34:09.120 making more than black men. The marriage rate declined. Rural America, rural whites. I

01:34:13.200 live in a place like this. The women, on average, make more than men because they work at the

01:34:16.340 hospitals and the schools. The men have only seasonal work. Guess what? No marriage.

01:34:20.500 So if you want to discourage marriage, set up a system where the women make more, which

01:34:25.100 is the system that we have. That's why people don't get married, because women make more.

01:34:28.380 And the women are making the decision. They don't want to, they may want to sleep with

01:34:31.220 them. They may want to have his babies. They don't want to marry him. It's just a fact.

01:34:34.320 Ask them. Ask a woman, do you want to marry a man who's shorter than you or makes less

01:34:39.620 than you? And the answer is no. But nobody asks women because nobody cares because the

01:34:43.780 idea is to destroy the country, its people, and its most basic structure, the family.

01:34:48.780 So it's just like, we're going to do this in your name and tell you what you want. But

01:34:51.940 they don't want that. And if you ask, ask 15 women, do you want to marry a man who's

01:34:54.920 shorter than you or makes less than you?

01:34:56.560 No, I've asked. Yeah, you're right. I'm so lonely. I need to find someone. I have so much

01:35:01.540 love to give. I've built a great life. I want to share it with someone. And then it's

01:35:05.060 like, okay, well, a woman says that? Oh no, women say this. And then I say, well, like,

01:35:08.680 are you cool? It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

01:35:10.180 Are you cool with a guy who like makes less than a hundred grand? Well, you know, that

01:35:14.460 shows that he doesn't have ambition. Oh, what about someone who's a little shorter? Well,

01:35:17.700 I want to feel, you know, I want to feel feminine. And if someone's shorter that I don't

01:35:21.660 think I'll be able to achieve that. Things are more fucked up than I realize. If people

01:35:24.020 actually believe that, what? Look, a man's job is to protect and provide, period. Those are

01:35:30.560 jobs, protect and provide, period. Yeah. But when that class of men is shrinking because

01:35:35.760 testosterone is falling because of the kind of the war on masculinity that we've endured

01:35:40.340 for the last 40 years, when that resource isn't available, then women start to say, well,

01:35:46.200 I've got to put a roof over my own head. I've got to protect and provide for myself. And

01:35:50.300 there are a lot of them who would say, where is my protector and provider? I get it. I'm not

01:35:53.180 attacking women. I'm just at all. I feel so, I've got three daughters. I feel so sorry

01:35:57.260 for women. I do. And I, as a man, I always blame the man first. Always. A hundred percent. It's

01:36:04.020 your job. You're the man. Your wife's unhappy. Whose fault is that? Yours. The kids are out of

01:36:08.240 control. It is the job of a husband to keep your wife happy. A hundred percent. That's your job.

01:36:11.860 Yes. I agree. I literally couldn't agree more. And if she's a drunk or something,

01:36:15.840 it's not going to work. It's out of your control. But in a normal marriage with two sober people who

01:36:19.880 are kind of trying, it is up to you. By the way, her happiness is not contingent on yours.

01:36:24.660 Your happiness is contingent on hers. That's the great equalizer designed by God

01:36:29.780 to keep balance in a relationship. I don't know a single man who's truly happy whose wife hates

01:36:34.740 him. Of course. I don't know one. And the reason our system, our biology, is set up that way is

01:36:40.180 because men are physically dominant. So you could just beat up your wife and rape her and make her

01:36:45.100 do whatever you wanted. Sounds terrible. Exactly. It sounds terrible. Exactly. That's exactly the

01:36:51.160 point. It sounds terrible. Men don't want that. They want a woman to be sexually attracted to him,

01:36:55.640 to be happy, to have real orgasms. They want it to be genuine. And that's the equalizer.

01:37:01.080 You're totally focused on your wife's happiness. That keeps it equal. That gives her power. That's

01:37:06.240 where her power comes from. How do we fix it?

01:37:09.160 By letting people observe the laws of nature, which they ignore at their peril. You can't ignore the

01:37:16.740 laws of nature around you, or you get killed. Well, nature is sending us the message. When we see

01:37:22.200 the declining birth rate, when we see the societal impact, nature is sending us the message that this

01:37:27.280 isn't working. Yeah. And you're not allowed, you're like considered some sort of weird religious freak

01:37:30.960 when you're like, I don't know. Unnatural sex acts gives rise to disease. People are like, shut up. Shut up.

01:37:39.560 Well, they do. I mean, I don't know. I've been alive for 56 years. I've watched this. That's just a fact.

01:37:46.180 I'm not saying I want it to be that way. I'm not in charge of nature, actually. And I'm not in charge

01:37:49.940 of human nature above all. None of us is. Do you really know women who think if they get a big salary

01:37:57.480 in a house, some guy will want to marry them? Oh, yeah. There are many who will watch this

01:38:01.940 discussion and say, I am that. I am perfectly suited for marriage. I've done everything society

01:38:07.760 has asked of me. I got an advanced degree. I got a six-figure job. My LinkedIn is fire. I do five

01:38:14.680 spinning classes a week. I look good. And every man that I find either is on the dating apps, and they

01:38:22.220 have so much optionality that there's not really an incentive to anchor your life with

01:38:26.640 someone, or they're losers. And they can be losers who've inherited money and just have

01:38:33.280 no desire to build something beyond that.

01:38:36.760 I mean, I'm sorry to sound like a liberal. I do blame society. I blame what people are

01:38:41.000 taught and the lies that they get through propaganda for convincing them that something so obviously

01:38:48.900 absurd could be true. I mean, of course, men find that emasculating, unappealing. No man wants to

01:38:53.820 marry a woman with her own house and a higher income than him. No way. And she doesn't want to marry

01:38:57.260 him. You know, if you had marriage as this thing that gave people financial security, right? And people,

01:39:04.600 you know, 40s and 50s, people were getting married. And then you're bound to someone economically

01:39:09.500 and built a life together. You got married in your 20s and did your thing. And then when we did

01:39:16.260 no-fault divorce, then marriage really became a contract, like more than anything else. And just

01:39:21.660 like any other contract, when you're out of the contract, there are certain obligations that you

01:39:26.640 still have to fill financially and otherwise. And then, you know, the obvious next step is, well, if

01:39:33.160 marriage is a contract, like kind of so is dating in a weird way on like what you will provide and what

01:39:39.300 I'll provide. And if, you know, at the end of it, you know, there are women who say like, yeah,

01:39:44.540 if I'm going to spend my time to go on a date, I want you to pay for it. I think that's where we

01:39:50.540 are. And I don't mind, like when I hear women say that they go out and the guy wants to split the

01:39:55.560 check, to me, there's something chivalrous or interesting about that. I think that-

01:39:59.660 Well, it's awful.

01:40:00.800 Look, again, men and women need each other. They compliment each other.

01:40:04.000 Tame each other. Men are necessary to tame women and women must tame men.

01:40:10.760 A hundred percent. And without each other, they become just industrial components who can be

01:40:16.560 manipulated by global capital or whatever. Whatever force you're afraid of, the only real protection

01:40:22.220 is your family. And that includes the one, not just you were born into, but the one that you start

01:40:27.140 yourself. That's your bulwark. That's your fortress. And if people are making it impossible for you to

01:40:33.280 build that fortress, like I respect the whole man. It's not just like what you say you believe,

01:40:38.500 it's how do you live? If I had a camera in your house, do your kids respect you? Does your wife

01:40:42.400 respect you? If not, why would I respect you? I feel that.

01:40:46.320 Like, do you think that the notion of the barren life is what motivates people like Lindsey Graham

01:40:51.520 to go to try to create conflict?

01:40:52.640 A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Like a normal person goes home, you go home. I don't know if you

01:40:58.200 and I are normal, but just like a conventional person goes home and is like, I've got all kinds

01:41:02.300 of views, but like continuity matters to me because I've got descendants. If you have no

01:41:07.580 descendants, it like ends with you and you don't believe clearly these people, none of these people

01:41:10.420 believe in God. So it's like, I don't know. I got 15, 20 years, five, three years, whatever I have,

01:41:15.940 we don't know. And I, it doesn't matter what happens after that. Oh, that's scary. That's day trading

01:41:23.160 with the world, right? With your life. No, but with everyone else's life. You think,

01:41:27.720 why would Lindsey Graham carry 70 years old? He's not, he has no kids. Like, why does it matter

01:41:32.100 if there's a nuclear war? I mean, he's looking just at, he's not the back nine. It's like the

01:41:37.400 back three at this point. Like his options are like heart disease, cancer, and Alzheimer's. That's it.

01:41:41.400 There's no tomorrow. Sad. Don't you think? Uh, I do think, I mean, you know, having,

01:41:48.160 having children, uh, vests you in the future in a way that not having children just doesn't.

01:41:54.720 I mean, hasn't it changed your attitudes? Of course. Of course. And, and, uh, you know,

01:41:59.440 the way you care about what comes after you shifts dramatically. Well, it was like maybe 10 years ago,

01:42:06.300 some smart friend of mine sent me this list of European leaders. I'm interested in Europe. So,

01:42:10.960 uh, so I felt like I knew a lot. I didn't know that like none of them had kids.

01:42:14.240 And it's, I remember thinking that's not, first of all, you can't say anything about that because

01:42:18.340 you want to seem like you're attacking people without kids, which I'm not. I'm feeling sorry

01:42:21.500 for them. I'm attacking the idea of childless leadership. You can't have leaders with no

01:42:26.900 kids because they're not thinking longterm because why would they? And look what happened

01:42:32.740 to Europe and the Harris campaign and the Harris campaign. Yeah. Whatever. What's going to happen

01:42:39.660 to her? She's running again. You haven't seen the news. She's assembling her team and for

01:42:43.440 what? President. Yeah. Come on now. I, as we've said, it's an ambition that resurfaces often in one

01:42:51.200 life. So what, I mean, you know a lot more about this than I, but like, let's say you decide you're

01:42:55.360 going to run for president. How, how does your party exert influence on you to like stop? That's

01:43:02.960 such a bad idea. You would think some of the democratic party would be like, be able to say no.

01:43:06.640 Uh, I don't know. I, again, who's like, you assume the Obamas are in charge of that party. So

01:43:13.600 potentially they could move her to another path, but you know, they'll have a crowded field and

01:43:19.300 may be the case that having ancillary people around soaking up votes is good for the ultimate

01:43:23.960 objective. I can't imagine the Obamas in the Gavin Newsom world would mix well. Uh, that's not really

01:43:30.260 the same vein of the democratic party. Do you know anyone who's friends with her or knows her

01:43:33.760 well? Harris? Yeah. No, I don't think I do. Well, that's kind of strange considering, you know,

01:43:39.560 everybody. I know a lot of people, but I can't say that there was a single member of Congress I

01:43:45.700 ever interacted with that, that could talk about any, um, you know, private moment or, um, like

01:43:53.580 in-depth conversation they'd ever had with Kamala Harris. So there was really no constituency for

01:44:00.560 her. Like it wasn't, I mean, that was, yeah, I think that Democrats believed that there is this

01:44:06.440 vast part of the population whose dream candidate is some combination of Michelle Obama and Oprah.

01:44:13.180 And like the closest they could get was like bargain basement Kamala Harris to go and attempt to

01:44:17.920 achieve that archetype. And it just didn't, didn't work out. So it was all about race and gender.

01:44:21.960 I think that, uh, that, that was a huge part of it. And it, it, we saw the limits of playing into

01:44:30.500 those, uh, those impulses with Harris. Last question. Where do you think the country goes

01:44:37.840 in the next say three years? Like what are the big trend? No, what are the big trends? Um,

01:44:44.320 obviously, you know, we're going to see automation in the next three years at, in a level that you and

01:44:50.420 I have never seen in our lives. You really believe we'll see that in the next three years? I do. I,

01:44:54.560 I, I, I believe that automation in transportation, in agriculture, in manufacturing will be the new,

01:45:03.380 the new dominant force in our lives. And I don't think that's going to be entirely good. Uh, I think

01:45:08.420 that it's inevitable because the capabilities, when, when you think automation will be a dominant

01:45:15.500 force in our lives in three years. Yes. Yes. I think that, that like, I will tell my grandkids

01:45:21.080 what it was like to order food from a person. That will not be a, that will go the way of the,

01:45:26.300 the payphone. Uh, there are like 7 million American men who make their living driving

01:45:32.060 today in, in one form or another. Those jobs are gone in the next half decade.

01:45:36.780 Where do those people go? I, I think that's when you start to see these calls for universal basic

01:45:43.240 income, uh, because we will say that there's, there's such wealth being created on a lot of

01:45:49.160 these tech platforms that, that doesn't get shared broadly. And I, I worry that that, uh,

01:45:55.540 that draw politically is something that will zap the motivation of the country in a bad way.

01:46:01.380 Just look at this healthcare debate that's happening right now as a microcosm of, of, of this trend.

01:46:06.080 Uh, Republicans are trying to cobble together something that they think is a free market

01:46:11.400 approach to healthcare as if, as if anything in healthcare is a free market. And Democrats are

01:46:15.540 just saying, we're going to give you free stuff for longer. And, uh, I think that Republicans

01:46:21.460 in swing districts have seen that and said, we can't beat that. So we have to have our own version

01:46:25.640 of, we'll give you free stuff longer. And, uh, you may see these, uh, these Obamacare credits

01:46:32.100 extended via a discharge petition that does just that. And that brings the right in America

01:46:38.220 in line with where the right has moved in Europe, which is toward, uh, you know, economic liberalism,

01:46:44.620 which I'm not for.

01:46:46.060 I think you'll see what also has happened in Europe where the richest people, the Bill Ackmans,

01:46:50.900 the bottom feeders like Bill Ackman, nonproductive elements of the economy, who just like made billions

01:46:57.520 of dollars shorting stocks. Those people are totally fine. They offshore their money. They

01:47:02.860 find ways around tax compliance, but it's the level down. It's the 65 year old Florida retirees

01:47:10.280 who own some insurance company in Indiana.

01:47:13.660 They spent their whole life building it. They sold it for 5 million bucks.

01:47:17.820 Exactly. Exactly right.

01:47:19.060 Yeah.

01:47:19.300 They have like just enough money.

01:47:21.360 Exactly right. To live on a golf course outside Sarasota, love Ron DeSantis, love Trump.

01:47:26.380 And those people are going to see everything stolen from them.

01:47:30.080 And the method of theft will be the devaluation of their existing assets.

01:47:34.220 It will be the deep, that's it, especially real estate. I totally agree with that. And

01:47:38.080 I think in taxation.

01:47:42.200 Just like the, the, the, and I love Steve Bannon, so I don't want like my, our last discussion

01:47:47.400 to come across as a criticism of Steve, but I mean, he's going to run for president on the,

01:47:51.960 on just a straight Elizabeth Warren wealth tax economic agenda.

01:47:58.600 Actually?

01:47:59.220 Yeah. He's going to run for president and say, take the money from those people who have way

01:48:04.220 too much of it, the Bill Ackmans of the world. And I want to give it to you.

01:48:07.920 I wonder if that, has it ever, it always seems like those people flee the country. I mean,

01:48:14.520 Miami is filled, I know a lot.

01:48:16.680 The people who fled other countries for that purpose.

01:48:18.480 Exactly. That's exactly right.

01:48:19.880 Yeah.

01:48:19.980 And they live in splendor. Not attacking them, but like they didn't give up their money.

01:48:25.680 They just left. And then the middle class, upper middle, upper middle class, especially

01:48:29.940 just get hammered. And that is the core of your society, right?

01:48:33.200 Uh, it, it won't last that way. And, you know, Trump's elections have been, I think,

01:48:39.240 a reaction to that broader trend we've experienced for decades. And, uh, you know, what I, what

01:48:44.740 I hope doesn't happen is that it just becomes a policy race to the bottom to try to, you

01:48:50.280 know, throw insufficient solutions at that, you know, things like, well, we'll just give

01:48:54.800 them free houses. We'll just give them free healthcare.

01:48:57.300 The robots will just build the houses in national parks.

01:49:00.200 Right. Right. And that, wouldn't that be awful?

01:49:03.200 Matt Gaetz, thank you for spending all this time.

01:49:05.520 It's always good to see you, Matt.

01:49:06.380 And I'm just glad that you survived everything and you're thriving.

01:49:09.180 Likewise.

01:49:10.500 Are you running for president?

01:49:11.620 No, not of this country.

01:49:13.160 Okay.

01:49:14.760 Thank you.

01:49:15.780 Thank you.

01:49:20.840 Well, some Americans have become cut off from the things that once kept us grounded, our

01:49:24.840 land, the skills that tied our families to nature.

01:49:28.220 Told you he was getting his next spot.

01:49:29.800 Woo!

01:49:29.980 And to remind us, we made a new six-part series, American Game, Tales from the Wild.

01:49:34.720 We follow the sportsmen who are keeping these ancient traditions alive.

01:49:38.140 We follow a former Navy SEAL into the mountains of Texas.

01:49:41.020 Donald Trump Jr. across the ridges of Lanai.

01:49:43.760 That's what we call from going from zero to hero.

01:49:46.220 And wander with me through the quiet woods of Maine.

01:49:49.160 I have just three dog commands.

01:49:52.440 And then as I direct the dogs, find the bird.

01:49:55.400 Find the bird.

01:49:55.980 And then dead bird, obviously.

01:49:58.080 I don't use as much as I'd like to.

01:50:01.420 We cast for Steelhead on the Deschutes River in Oregon.

01:50:04.140 That's the first one I've caught in a while.

01:50:05.500 Track mule deer in the Utah high country.

01:50:08.020 Spearfish in the waters off Montauk, chasing striped bass and bluefin tuna.

01:50:11.800 See you on the other side.

01:50:12.800 It's called American Game, Tales from the Wild, an outdoor series.

01:50:16.060 Watch it at TuckerCarlson.com.

The Tucker Carlson Show - December 22, 2025

Matt Gaetz： Ted Cruz’s Delusional 2028 Bid, the ADL, and Identity Politics Taking Over the Right

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