The Tucker Carlson Show - December 22, 2025


Matt Gaetz: Ted Cruz’s Delusional 2028 Bid, the ADL, and Identity Politics Taking Over the Right


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 50 minutes

Words per minute

189.2836

Word count

20,880

Sentence count

1,590

Harmful content

Misogyny

51

sentences flagged

Toxicity

43

sentences flagged

Hate speech

68

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Yeshivah Kaplan appointed to lead anti-Semitism campaign at the State Department. Rabbi Yehuda Kaplan's appointment is a game changer, and it's not about history, it's about education and how do we educate.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Matt Gaetz thank you for doing this. Good to be with you. I haven't seen you in a
00:00:07.720 while. Especially in Florida. Especially in Florida. Exactly. So I just want to
00:00:14.240 start with a clip that I saw this morning that I think is amazing and
00:00:19.760 tells you a lot about a lot. This is from the Jerusalem Post Washington conference
00:00:23.560 this weekend. The man speaking is a guy called Yehuda Kaplan. I don't think I've
00:00:28.800 ever heard of before but now apparently works at the State Department in the
00:00:32.780 office to fight anti-Semitism which is part of the State Department. And here's
00:00:37.680 what he said. Watch this. I get off a plane. I am the president's representative and I
00:00:42.060 am walking off with a yarmulke and I have kosher food and embassies will have
00:00:46.580 kosher food. It is a game changer. The appointment is a game changer. And it's
00:00:52.640 not about history. It's about education. And how do we educate? Indonesia has 350 million
00:01:02.480 Muslims living in the country. How do we change their textbooks? How do we hold the 0.99
00:01:07.300 people in Gaza accountable that if America is paying for UN textbooks and supposedly the
00:01:14.520 changes are made, why are those textbooks not being used and why are they using their
00:01:18.060 old textbooks? We have to teach people it's not okay to educate your kids to be a martyr.
00:01:24.480 Okay? And we have to hold those countries accountable. How do we battle anti-Semitism
00:01:30.600 on the internet? How are we doing better on algorithms? What companies can we work with?
00:01:37.940 We are going to have a whole division within the office of the special envoy to combat anti-Semitism
00:01:43.220 that is going to work on technology and working with the greatest leaders in technology, many of
00:01:50.580 whom are Jewish and have offered their assistance. The office is going to be revamped entirely to be
00:01:55.820 one of the highest profile offices in the State Department. Nothing will convince Indonesia to come 1.00
00:02:00.920 our way like sending Rabbi Yehuda is probably my guess. How do we hold the people of Gaza accountable? 1.00
00:02:06.600 So there is truth to the claim that in the pedagogy that is administered in a lot of places,
00:02:13.520 there's incitement. Maya the martyr is a character. No doubt. And that is awful and U.S. taxpayers
00:02:19.300 shouldn't fund it and we ought to hold anyone accountable who does. At the same time, the definition
00:02:27.740 of anti-Semitism in recent times, according to some of the Israel first crowd in the United States,
00:02:34.320 has really migrated. Like this isn't my line, but I certainly associate it with anti-Semitism used
00:02:39.220 to mean somebody who didn't like Jews. Now it just means somebody Jews don't like.
00:02:44.460 And that's not a standard that we can live with because the reason anti-Semitism is terrible,
00:02:54.580 it's against my religion, I'm totally opposed to it, and by the way, it does result in violence. I think
00:02:58.960 we just saw that and I hate it. But anti-Semitism is wrong because hating anyone on the basis of their
00:03:06.000 DNA is always wrong. It's a universal principle. It does not apply to one group, my group or your
00:03:10.240 group. It applies to all groups. And if it doesn't apply to all groups, then it's not a principle
00:03:14.040 and I can just ignore it. Right? So that's the problem I have here.
00:03:17.860 Yeah, but the U.S. ambassador to France, Jared Kushner's father, says that anti-Zionism
00:03:23.460 is anti-Semitism. And I don't believe that. I think that you can be critical of foreign policy
00:03:29.380 choices that a country makes without the assumption that you hate the religion or the
00:03:35.100 ethnic group associated with that country. Like when I was critical of Joe Biden, that didn't make
00:03:40.660 me anti-Catholic. And when I'm critical of Benjamin Netanyahu, that doesn't make me anti-Semitic.
00:03:45.440 Well, I agree with that. And I do think there has been a rise, just I can just notice it,
00:03:50.160 in people hating Jews, disliking Jews, anti-Semitism, I think that's real, in the United States. But
00:03:57.500 I think you could probably fix that in a week.
00:04:02.440 How?
00:04:03.660 By getting Jewish groups like the ADL, like the American Jewish Congress, like whatever group 0.87
00:04:11.020 Yehuda Kaplan runs, to come out against anti-white hate, which is institutionalized in the United States.
00:04:18.080 And if you had the ADL and the SPLC and these groups that have fought against anti-Semitism
00:04:24.220 for all these years, make the obvious and true point that hatred of anybody on the basis of how
00:04:30.380 they're born is immoral, and we won't stand for it. And in the United States, the institutionalized
00:04:35.760 hate is anti-white, of course, prevented from getting jobs, prevented from getting federal grants,
00:04:40.120 prevented from getting admitted to college. That's still in place.
00:04:43.760 But you know why that hasn't happened.
00:04:45.460 I don't understand. You know what I don't understand?
00:04:47.260 Well, there isn't a sufficient monetization path there, the way it is when the ADL and
00:04:52.620 similarly aligned groups try to make the American people think that anti-Semitism is hiding behind
00:04:57.480 every bush.
00:04:57.900 Okay, but then, so then, I know it's not real. Okay, so if I get up, look, if I get up and
00:05:03.280 say it's only wrong when people attack people like me, then everyone knows that I'm not defending
00:05:11.000 a principle, I'm defending a group interest. And I can ignore your group's interests. I
00:05:15.780 cannot ignore a universal principle. And the universal principle is that kind of hatred
00:05:19.780 is always wrong no matter who it's aimed at. So why doesn't the ADL stand up and do that?
00:05:25.120 I would send money to the ADL if they did that. I would send money to the ADL. I would. And
00:05:31.120 I despise the ADL. Because that would be a defense of what's true and so needed. Why won't
00:05:38.120 they do that? Well, when you're a witch hunter, you have to first convince people of the existence 0.88
00:05:44.000 of witches. And so I think that for the broad goals of the ADL, they have to make the country
00:05:50.640 believe that we are somehow aligned against the Jewish faith and against those goals.
00:05:56.000 But what they're saying is it's okay to discriminate against white Christians, but
00:05:58.980 it's immoral to discriminate against Jews? No, it's immoral to discriminate against Jews 0.87
00:06:03.040 and white Christians and black people and Indonesians and every group on the basis of
00:06:08.420 their DNA, period. Well, there has to be a villain. And that's what white people have 0.98
00:06:13.480 become in this really threat-constructed environment around identity.
00:06:20.620 Well, I've actually reached out to those groups and said, I will make common cause with
00:06:27.240 you. I'll support you. I'll send you money if you will just defend the principle. And that
00:06:31.240 would include defending- No, you never heard these people during the DEI craze.
00:06:35.260 They didn't say one word. They were for it. They were for discriminated against whites. 0.98
00:06:39.140 Because those kids who've been shafted by anti-white hate as institutionalized in every
00:06:44.580 big company and every government agency in the whole United States and Western Europe, those 0.99
00:06:50.900 people are mad. And where was Yehud 11 during that? Where was Bill Ackman during that? And
00:06:57.600 my point is, come over to the side of universal principles of light and truth, and let's make
00:07:05.220 common cause against all forms of hate. And if you won't do that, then I'm not taking you
00:07:10.040 seriously.
00:07:10.420 And no one should take them seriously, because they are an advocacy group for a particular
00:07:16.320 ethnic group. And that is fine.
00:07:18.260 Well, how's that different from like Ilhan Omar and the Somalis? 1.00
00:07:20.960 Well, I think that in a lot of ways, there are similarities when like ethno-nationalism
00:07:27.060 is the objective. And obviously, ethno-nationalism is the objective in Israel. It's the organizing
00:07:31.300 principle of the country.
00:07:32.020 That's fine. That's not our country, though.
00:07:33.400 Of the country. Yeah.
00:07:34.020 But oftentimes, people are pursuing the policies here in the United States that benefit Israel
00:07:40.340 and our own interests and the interests of our people. And the plight you described that
00:07:44.240 so many young people have endured is not a priority.
00:07:46.620 White young people. That's why they're mad. Why do you think they're mad? Because they've 1.00
00:07:50.140 been told that the country they were born in like officially discriminates against them.
00:07:54.140 That's ongoing.
00:07:56.040 I don't think it's just even white people. I think it's also non-white people who see the 0.70
00:08:01.720 attack on white culture, not as an attack on like colonialism, but as an attack on success
00:08:07.040 and progress and order.
00:08:08.120 I know a lot of non-white people that are like, actually, this anti-white activity that's
00:08:13.820 going on is going to make me less prosperous and less safe.
00:08:17.760 And I'm kind of here, like for all the criticisms we as whites have taken, we did an okay job
00:08:22.860 setting up an orderly world and we've made some mistakes along the way and you've got to
00:08:27.300 reconcile those. But at the end, what society would you replace with like what we've set up
00:08:34.320 in the Western world? Is there some like vision of the way civilizations were built in Africa or
00:08:41.220 the Far East that we would gleefully adopt?
00:08:43.780 So imagine moving here because it's a white country founded by white people and getting 0.98
00:08:49.320 here and being like, yeah, I want to be part of that, which I get 100%. And then you get here and
00:08:55.580 the first thing you learn is white people are bad. Right. I mean, that must be weird. 0.99
00:08:59.740 It's, I think that this is shifting the other way. I really think during the excesses of the
00:09:06.460 post George Floyd era, people attached so strongly to identity. And, you know, I sense a real pushback
00:09:15.200 against that. And like you talk about like learning it, right? The main place people learn still is in
00:09:21.580 the school system. Right now, public education is essentially a failing enterprise and all of the
00:09:27.680 innovation is to take people out of that system. And then people will self-select what they learn.
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00:12:39.580 I think you're right. So I think what you're saying, so I'm, I was, well, I want to get to the
00:12:44.480 thing that really bothered me about the statement from Yehuda Kaplan, whoever, who apparently now
00:12:47.860 runs the State Department, he just told us. I did not vote for this, just to be clear, period.
00:12:52.640 The, the... Any of what I just saw, yeah, that guy. But, but you're saying maybe I should calm
00:12:59.160 down a little bit because, like, who cares? History's passing this whole conversation by?
00:13:03.460 I, I, I'm not saying who cares because that was, that was a disgusting display of, I think,
00:13:10.700 parochial interest that you just saw. Yes, that's correct. But we see that often, so I don't get too
00:13:16.440 worked up about it. The, the bigger issue is that Rabbi Yehuda would probably classify you and I
00:13:24.700 as anti-Semitic because we've been critical of some of the policy choices of the Israeli government.
00:13:30.160 And that broad application of anti-Semitism, to say anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism, to, to say that
00:13:38.440 even some things in the Bible may be deemed anti-Semitic if they're critical of Jews at any
00:13:43.180 point. It's, it's so, it has created such a curiosity among young people to test those mores
00:13:53.240 and challenge those dogmas. Like, I think there are a lot of, like, the Mark Levin, Israel First
00:13:58.900 crowd who look at us and say, like, we're the problem. Tucker and Matt are the problem. Actually,
00:14:03.760 we're not the problem. The problem is you lost us. They show these old videos of you being very
00:14:09.940 complimentary of Israel and critical of Israel's critics. You could easily find a lot of my
00:14:15.900 library speaking on the floor of the Congress supporting a strong and robust US-Israel
00:14:19.820 relationship. So two people who in our thirties were incredibly supportive of this relationship
00:14:25.980 have come untethered. And it is because the relationship has become too burdensome and friends
00:14:31.800 should be able to tell that to each other. And when you do, that doesn't make you a bad friend.
00:14:36.820 I still consider myself pro-Israel. I think that what the Netanyahu government is doing to Israel
00:14:41.700 is bad for Israel, much in the way the United States created more terrorists than we killed
00:14:46.300 during the wars in the Middle East that have consumed most of my life. I think that is what,
00:14:52.800 that is the chapter of the book they're in right now. This, this expansionism and the adventurism,
00:14:59.240 and it ends badly. It ended badly for us. Remember, Syria's in the news now because tragically we've
00:15:05.400 lost Americans in uniform in, in Syria and, and a translator there as well. And reasonable people
00:15:11.920 are asking, why are we still in Syria? What are we doing being-
00:15:15.240 So we can lose troops. That's why.
00:15:17.060 That is so sick. And, and- I believe that's true.
00:15:21.600 You believe that, that those people are there so that they can die and trigger a war.
00:15:27.240 That is correct. And a deeper commitment and an emotional commitment. You've lost people here
00:15:31.380 in it. Um, I do think that, and I- When we lost someone in Mogadishu, did that create a deeper
00:15:37.260 emotional connection to Somalia or did that cause Americans to say, what are we doing patrolling
00:15:42.040 around Mogadishu? Well, it allowed the State Department, um, and the rest of the federal
00:15:45.680 government and its constellation of NGOs to import tens of thousands of Somalis into the United
00:15:51.340 States because all of a sudden- Well, that had been happening under, under Clinton, you know,
00:15:55.260 for some time. Yeah. Well that, right. But that, I believe Black Hawk Down was at the, during the
00:16:02.840 Clinton administration. Yeah. Right. So, um, yeah, the, we now have had military action in this
00:16:09.780 country. So there's a, the deep and important connection between our country and whatever
00:16:13.540 country we're killing people in. And so we need to import whoever it is, the Somalis, the 1.00
00:16:17.820 Montagnards from Vietnam, whatever. And by the way, some of those groups have done well
00:16:21.740 here. Others have not done well at all, but the pretext is exactly the same. We occupy Haiti 0.83
00:16:26.700 repeatedly. All of a sudden we have a ton of Haitians. Like this is how it works. We're fooling 1.00
00:16:30.400 with Venezuela policy. Got a ton of Venezuelans.
00:16:32.520 Is that the next chapter here is, you know, you're welcoming a good chunk of Syria into the 0.91
00:16:37.240 United States. I mean, a lot of them are already living in Europe.
00:16:39.780 Yeah. And, but let me just say, I've, I've known a lot of Syrians in my life, a lot of
00:16:44.460 Syrian Christians and Alawites and moderate Muslims. It's never been a hotbed of a religious
00:16:48.720 extremism to have a secular government until last year.
00:16:51.640 Damascus was a great secular center of enlightenment and architecture.
00:16:55.420 A lot of the New Testament was written from what's now Syria. So it had a, you know, it's
00:16:59.140 had an ancient Christian presence. Of course, Paul was on his way to Damascus when he met
00:17:02.580 Jesus. So like, this is the Levant. This is not some far away, this is on the Mediterranean.
00:17:07.560 Okay. This is, uh, and so I know some amazing, uh, Syrians also a lot of like war traumatized,
00:17:16.560 unemployed and unemployable, dangerous Syrians. And there happen to be living in Berlin right 1.00
00:17:21.120 now. So like, whatever it's, it's a mixed, it's a mixed bag. The only point is the soon 0.67
00:17:25.180 as you intervene in another country, all of a sudden, you know, invade the world, import 0.85
00:17:29.840 the world becomes real.
00:17:30.560 Yeah. I introduced the legislation in Congress to take all of our troops out of Syria. It
00:17:36.140 was defeated overwhelmingly. And, uh, that was, uh, that was in 2024, uh, last year and
00:17:43.660 on a Paulina Luna court, you know, others. And I took to the floor to explain that this
00:17:48.420 would result in American deaths, that those deaths would not be worth whatever gain is
00:17:53.400 attempting to be realized in Syria. In Syria, we had troops funded by the Pentagon fighting
00:17:59.980 forces funded by the CIA and, and Syria's even an example on the limits of Russia's interventionism.
00:18:06.160 Uh, I, you know, took note of the fact that them propping up a government and trying to
00:18:11.320 keep it loyal was not something that was ultimately sustainable for Russia. And so now, um, you know,
00:18:16.800 we ought to get our troops out. There's no thing that we are fighting for there. That is an
00:18:21.280 achievable win. And what were these guys doing? You hear it on the news now, key leader engagement.
00:18:26.220 Like, you know what that means? That means we've got troops wandering around Syria, figuring out
00:18:30.400 which Bedouin leaders to go bribe as a part of some coalition we can represent. And that is 0.73
00:18:35.540 everything Donald Trump is against. Donald Trump doesn't want to import a bunch of Syrians. He
00:18:40.280 doesn't want to control Syria. And I think that, that there is a lot of the military industrial
00:18:45.540 complex that just needs us to be in a state of kind of constant latent war everywhere.
00:18:53.060 Oh, there's no question. And I want to ask you in the, and by the way, just while I'm
00:18:56.700 on the rant, the reason that happens is because in Congress, there's this great sense of deference.
00:19:01.860 Like if you're not on the agriculture committee, you defer to those people. If you're not on the
00:19:05.360 intelligence committee, you defer to those people or the armed services committee. And under
00:19:09.660 a system where people's specializations were being represented in that way, that might work,
00:19:14.160 but it's just a function of which special interests are controlling which committees and which members
00:19:20.300 of Congress. The way you get on the war committee is to be for the wars. The way you to get on the
00:19:25.980 intelligence committee is to be for the intelligence apparatus. The way to get on the agriculture
00:19:30.520 committee is to be for big food. The way to get on the natural resources committee is to be against
00:19:34.820 natural resources. And then when you do all of that, you end up with this, this highly deferential
00:19:40.600 system to people who were elected by no one, who buy off your leaders. And those leaders justify it
00:19:45.880 by saying, well, at least I'm moving up in the system. And thus, whatever I do to surrender my
00:19:50.600 agency is justified.
00:19:52.220 And worth it, because I can have a seat at the table and maybe I can, I mean, I think the moral
00:19:56.440 justification for the person who makes moral compromises is, well, at least now I'm here and
00:20:01.500 I can potentially make things better.
00:20:03.500 Yeah, but you're not even really there because you've sold all the shares of yourself. You know who else was
00:20:07.420 there? Kevin McCarthy. Like he was there until he wasn't. But the problem is the man had no agency
00:20:12.240 because over such a period of time, he had sold shares of himself to the highest bidder.
00:20:18.920 Are there any sovereign leaders in the world that you're aware of? Like, does any leader have the
00:20:22.580 ability to say, this is the right thing or the wrong thing? And I'm just going to act according to
00:20:26.700 how I feel with like the authority vested in me?
00:20:29.620 Yes.
00:20:30.380 Really?
00:20:31.020 Yeah. El Salvador, Naib Bukele. 0.99
00:20:34.280 I think he has total agency to just do things, as he says.
00:20:39.860 Huh. How's the country doing?
00:20:41.880 It's doing well. People are safe. Investment is coming. You and I have spent time there.
00:20:47.760 Yeah, a lot of time there.
00:20:48.520 I think that it is a great case study in what happens when you exercise the type of executive
00:20:58.680 power that benefits the people. In a way, if it's a dictatorship, it's a very benevolent
00:21:04.540 dictatorship and people get to vote for or against him and they vote for him.
00:21:09.640 Yeah, they also get to leave. I mean, a third of Salvadorans have left over the past 40 years
00:21:13.680 come to the United States and now a bunch of them are returning.
00:21:16.600 They are. Yeah. I mean, and by the way, like I know out there among your supporters and mine,
00:21:21.960 there's a lot of angst over like, well, you know, has Donald Trump done every single thing
00:21:26.060 I ever wanted him to do in this first year in office? Like if you would have told me back
00:21:30.460 when we were staring at polls showing us that Kamala Harris was going to be the next president
00:21:33.980 of the United States, that here we would be at the conclusion of 2025 with negative net migration
00:21:38.420 immigration in this country. And some of that indeed is the great work of DHS, but a lot of it
00:21:42.460 is the self-deportation where Trump has set the ethic in this country where if you are not here
00:21:47.620 legally, you are not welcome. And a bunch of those people are going home. And I think that is a great
00:21:52.340 credit to the work they've done. It is. And in the case of El Salvador, it's a great credit to the
00:21:56.220 job the president of El Salvador has done in like improving his country. Yeah. Like why not live there?
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00:24:28.240 So I just want to get back to one more question about the State Department's new
00:24:33.640 office on antisemitism and just say again, I'm opposed to antisemitism every bit as much as I'm
00:24:39.160 opposed to anti-white hate, which is much more prevalent, and all of it, anti-black, anti-Mexican,
00:24:45.220 everything. Anti-people. But in there, he says, we need to control what people say on the internet. 0.99
00:24:51.900 Yes.
00:24:52.400 And we're going to talk to Jews in the... I mean, he just said that.
00:24:56.820 It's so funny. It's like, do they really think that's going to work? Does anyone think...
00:25:01.360 But that's why should the US government be trying to censor its own citizens? Like,
00:25:04.780 I thought that was, first of all, illegal.
00:25:06.540 I thought we ran against that. That was the Biden administration.
00:25:08.440 But isn't that like, how is that different from slavery? If you can't say what you believe...
00:25:13.440 The bondage part.
00:25:14.620 Yeah. Well, I don't know. It's a form of bondage. It's like, I'm not treating you as a human being,
00:25:19.060 as a free man, if I won't allow you to say what you think. I thought that's what America was. It
00:25:24.480 was the place where you could say what you think.
00:25:26.180 Yeah. The opportunity to do that apparently will be constrained worldwide as Rabbi Yehuda is
00:25:32.700 serving you your kosher food and telling you what you can't say.
00:25:34.440 The US State Department, I thought we were against censorship.
00:25:38.700 Wait a second. You thought the US State Department was against censorship? That's not true.
00:25:42.300 This guy's standing up at some event with a bunch of lunatics saying, 0.94
00:25:45.540 I'm censoring Americans and I work for the US government. How about you get fired today? 0.97
00:25:50.220 Yeah. I think he was pointing globally. And the US State Department has a long history of
00:25:53.780 trying to control what people see and hear and how they react to that.
00:25:56.580 We need to change the textbooks in Indonesia. Should we really be changing other people's 1.00
00:26:01.040 textbooks? Whatever.
00:26:01.680 No, I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that we should not be funding the
00:26:05.860 textbooks that advance martyrdom.
00:26:06.900 No, we should not be funding anybody's textbooks. There are people living on the street. But
00:26:11.680 whatever. Leaving that aside, you're not allowed to censor our social media, period. Because
00:26:19.240 we're Americans, we can say and think whatever we want, that's the point of being American.
00:26:24.380 How can a US official say that?
00:26:26.620 I think we have crossed that Rubicon long ago. When you had people in the Biden administration
00:26:30.520 censoring true information about vaccine side effects and no accountability for that,
00:26:36.400 no action against those officials, it has blown the door open to use powers in government to try
00:26:42.800 to advance the viewpoints that you find comforting and to silence the ideas that you find uncomfortable.
00:26:49.160 I've never heard anybody say we should censor anti-white hate on the internet. Not one person
00:26:53.240 has ever. I don't. By the way, I don't think we should censor it or any expression of what people
00:26:58.140 believe should ever be censored. Do you think censorship digitally is ultimately sustainable
00:27:03.460 with the fragmented digital environment we live in? So that's the point.
00:27:05.960 Because I'm not entirely, I'm not as worked up over it as you are. I know, I know.
00:27:09.400 Because I just, I think that, you know, you've got, we have so many different opportunities
00:27:13.800 to communicate now, more so than in the, you know, 2010s. And the censorship regime is only
00:27:20.580 going to backfire on these folks. And it's sad. I, I honestly, I wish people like, you know,
00:27:27.300 Jonathan Greenblatt at the ADL and, and, and this particular rabbi, like would, would see that what
00:27:32.920 they are doing is ultimately to their detriment because more and more people are going to wonder
00:27:37.180 why there is this like one group that seems to have primacy in speech and discourse.
00:27:43.480 You're a hundred percent right. And you're able to control your emotions sufficient to see that,
00:27:51.180 which is why I'm glad you're here. Controlling emotions really is what I'm, what I'm known for.
00:27:56.180 No, it is actually. Cause you're seeing, at least compared to me, it was no self-control at all.
00:28:01.400 You're seeing the big picture, which is that this is a conversation that can only be counterproductive.
00:28:08.100 They don't understand the nature of human discourse and of the internet. And like, you can't censor it.
00:28:12.360 No. And how are you going to censor the presidential debate stage in 2028? Cause let me walk through
00:28:16.540 what you're going to see. You were going to see candidates on the Republican debate stage and on
00:28:21.960 the Democrat debate stage. They're going to say, I'm going to cut off all aid to Israel. I believe
00:28:26.500 the U S Israel relationship is toxic. I think it is a, it is an abusive relationship and the United 0.98
00:28:32.120 States is the abused partner and we need to leave. And those people are automatically going to surge
00:28:37.540 to a prominent position in, in the polling, in their parties. And so then how do you, how are you
00:28:43.860 ultimately going to censor a viewpoint that is a rising viewpoint on the left and the right?
00:28:48.980 Right. Well, this is among the bases of those parties, not, not, this isn't a viewpoint percolating
00:28:54.560 among the elites that maybe the U S Israel relationship is, is something we have to question in its current
00:29:00.760 iteration in its current form, but this is coming to a head. And the, like, I saw the deal where,
00:29:07.220 uh, have you looked at the far filings with the Israeli government is paying to geo-fence
00:29:12.720 U S churches so that they can propagandize evangelical Christians. I'm watching this, 0.62
00:29:18.580 like saying, it's not going to work. People are still going to ask questions. Uh, and I still can't
00:29:24.760 find any of the, of Israel's strongest defenders who will defend that conduct. Um, they've also,
00:29:30.460 I guess, hired Brad Parscale to spoof the AI bots. I saw that. And I thought, I thought at least it's
00:29:38.520 like them getting grifted this time. He's pathetic. Uh, but yes, no, I mean, literally pathetic, but, 1.00
00:29:44.860 uh, but it's still so dishonorable what he's doing, but you're absolutely right. I should have a lighter 0.70
00:29:49.280 heart about this kind of stuff. It's, I, I guess what concerns me is these are people who are
00:29:55.440 totally committed to violence, who, I mean, for rabbi, whatever his name is to say, we need to 1.00
00:30:01.040 hold the people of Gaza accountable when they already, the Israeli and the U S have murdered 0.99
00:30:06.320 tens of thousands of women and children murdered them. It's like, that's not like what is there anyone
00:30:13.300 who believes that Israel's campaign in Gaza has killed more terrorists than it's created. Is there a
00:30:18.780 single serious person who believes that? Well, it's, it's, it's a crime. It's, it's a crime.
00:30:23.520 And when the more you know about it, the more shocking it is that it's happened, a first world 0.55
00:30:27.840 country doing something, murdering all those kids, murdering them, which they have. And all these
00:30:32.620 people like rabbi, whatever, and Mark Levin defending it, they're just pro violence. They believe in 0.99
00:30:39.000 violence. Mark Levin, when Charlie was murdered three months ago said, you know, he was murdered
00:30:43.180 because people called him a Nazi and that's an invitation to shoot somebody. Next thing you know,
00:30:46.620 he's running around calling everyone who disagrees with the next aid package, a Nazi. He's espousing 1.00
00:30:51.360 violence. Mark Levin's totally for violence. A lot of these stronger voices are for violence. So
00:30:56.440 if censorship doesn't work, it makes me uncomfortable when people who believe in violence and murdering
00:31:02.000 the innocence as they do, if they're, if they can't achieve their goals by peaceful means, like
00:31:07.860 what's the next step? Violence. I think that they come from a viewpoint of like every 400 years,
00:31:13.460 people round up the Jews and kill them on the planet earth. And they think that their struggle 0.70
00:31:18.520 is existential. And if they do not become violent in certain places, in certain iterations that they
00:31:24.120 become the victim of it. Okay. I think that's, I look, I get that. And actually one thing that I
00:31:29.560 grieve over, cause I hear about it all the time from friends of mine is that people are panicked or
00:31:34.160 panicked. And then you have a shooting, this massacre in Australia is like the worst thing I've ever,
00:31:38.900 I couldn't even watch the video. It was so horrible. And it's like, that adds to people's
00:31:42.860 sense that there's something like that is going to happen here. And I totally sympathize with that,
00:31:47.420 all of that. But violence is not the answer. That's the point. It's why you can't defend the
00:31:54.040 murder of kids in Gaza. You can't call for your enemies to be killed like Mark Levin in effect does.
00:32:00.260 Don't do that. Right?
00:32:01.820 Yeah. And, um, it, it, it probably is, you know, the next chapter of all of this is that more of
00:32:09.320 that type of violence is visited here in the United States and we're, we're against that. That, by the
00:32:13.640 way, that's why the speech and the dialogue and the discourse is so important, which is what Charlie
00:32:17.400 Kirk understood. I know. And, and, uh, and said so all the time. And I mean, when you, you and I know
00:32:24.420 what few others do, and that is the operational competence of Charlie Kirk in, uh, doing everything
00:32:31.860 he could to support the Trump administration, to make the best possible decisions on the information
00:32:36.960 that existed. And Charlie told me something once about, uh, president Trump and Twitter. And he said,
00:32:42.920 you know, Matt, how many times back in 2016, 2017, did we, uh, did we have someone come up to us and
00:32:49.180 say, we love Trump, but can we get him off Twitter? Can we just get him to stop, uh, tweeting every
00:32:53.940 impulse? And by the way, I always loved the posts still do. Uh, but, um, we, so many people were
00:33:01.320 focused on the information flow from Trump out into the Twitter sphere. When, uh, what we, I think
00:33:08.440 discounted was when Trump was scrolling Twitter regularly, he was getting bi-directional feedback
00:33:15.280 that does not exist right now. Uh, that, that, that avenue is not open the way it was in those years.
00:33:22.180 And I think it was really special and awesome about Trump that he was able to understand the
00:33:27.160 zeitgeist and what the temperature and mood of the country was. And, uh, I would love to see Trump
00:33:33.200 back on Twitter posting regularly and seeing the feedback from users.
00:33:37.980 I think it's a really smart point and true.
00:33:40.680 We did an interview with a woman called Casey Means. She's a Stanford educated surgeon and really 0.74
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00:37:44.700 What role does Twitter X play in the discourse of the nation?
00:37:49.960 It's the global newswire. It's where news is made. And I think that people discount the
00:37:58.620 significance of the platform when they say it doesn't have the same user base that you see on
00:38:03.360 Meta or TikTok. But the reality is the news that is made on X, Twitter, really pollinates to those
00:38:10.260 other platforms extensively and I think drives all the action.
00:38:14.300 So Twitter is real life, is what you're saying?
00:38:16.160 I think that it is. Yeah.
00:38:18.680 Could you understand what's happening in the country without reading it?
00:38:21.440 I don't think so because you would be limited in the inputs to your system, right?
00:38:31.940 What are your – well, you host a show, but even long before you hosted the show, you're in the
00:38:36.780 middle of the national conversation. You were the subject of the national conversation for a while.
00:38:43.340 Where do you get your information? How do you know what reality is?
00:38:46.440 I try to read a lot. I try to watch cable news as little as possible even though I'm a host of a cable
00:38:53.860 show on One America News. I think we've lost an appreciation for like the 10,000-word piece
00:39:01.060 in society today. I miss the long investigative reporting pieces we used to get at places like
00:39:08.860 the National Pulse and places like Revolver News. And more and more, the attention span of the
00:39:16.640 country is limited and so you've got to be able to convey messages sharply, crisply so that they're
00:39:21.780 absorbed and people can act on the information.
00:39:23.500 Do you read Twitter a lot?
00:39:24.480 I do, yeah. I'm on Twitter a good bit. A Citizen Free Press is one of my daily check-ins for the news
00:39:30.700 as well. And also more and more since I've left government life, seeing how the movement of money
00:39:37.100 impacts policy decisions. I was so into like what was on the next committee agenda, what the next
00:39:43.680 witness would be in the chair. And oftentimes it's the way money moves in global marketplaces
00:39:49.540 influencing events. And I also think this is informative on our discussion on the Middle East
00:39:54.120 because for most of you in my life, the principal capital markets that mattered in the world were New
00:39:59.760 York and London. And I think a lot of people were really comfortable with that. And then as capital
00:40:06.700 has really flown out of these Gulf monarchies, out of the Middle East, you're seeing places like Doha,
00:40:13.580 Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Muscat-Oman, Riyadh emerge as these very significant capital marketplaces.
00:40:22.220 And I think Netanyahu is trying to wash that region in blood and chaos and war migrants 1.00
00:40:28.800 so that there is a return to New York and London being the principal capital markets.
00:40:35.140 Yeah. I mean, I saw an Israeli cabinet minister the other day describe, was talking about the Saudis
00:40:41.260 and, you know, go back to whatever, your camels and sleeping with your cousin or whatever,
00:40:47.160 eating lamb in a tent. And, you know, it was dismissive, of course. I'm not even taking sides
00:40:52.540 in it, but it was more than dismissive. It was like idiotic. It's like, have you been there recently? 1.00
00:40:56.720 You know, there are not a lot of camels in downtown Riyadh, which has like 8 million people in it.
00:41:01.080 It's like the most modern city on the side of China. I think people don't fully understand
00:41:09.500 how quickly that region has changed.
00:41:12.740 Yeah. And, you know, that change is frightening to people who are losing power.
00:41:18.960 I get it. And I think a lot of those people are the constituency that Netanyahu is serving as he
00:41:24.080 is trying to advance an agenda that will create more war and create more violence. And like,
00:41:29.800 nobody's going to want to do business deals in Doha or Abu Dhabi or Dubai if there are 30 million
00:41:38.980 Iranians that are on the move because they're war migrants. 1.00
00:41:42.780 No, that's really, really smart. So I want to get to something. So you sponsored this bill in the
00:41:49.900 Congress in 2024 last year that would have pulled the United States finally out of Syria. And of course
00:41:56.780 it didn't pass. Did you even get to a vote?
00:41:58.920 Yeah, I was able to force a vote on it under our rules. Yeah. I mean, it lost by a margin of two to
00:42:04.020 one. I didn't even have a majority of Republicans.
00:42:05.900 Oh, of course. But the fact that you did that, which by the way, for people who aren't from
00:42:10.760 Washington, that's like a radical act. That's like tea party level. You know, it's like throwing
00:42:15.600 the tea in Boston Harbor. That's like a, no one would do that. Poor Tulsi Gabbard once said like,
00:42:19.760 why do we have to be in Syria? And they spied on her and kept her off commercial airplanes for 0.99
00:42:24.380 saying that. So it was a ballsy thing to say, but you've always had this kind of like, you know,
00:42:29.880 independent cast to your thinking. It's been very obvious for a long time.
00:42:35.300 Several years ago, your life got completely blown up. It sounded like you were going to jail.
00:42:40.760 People started calling you a child molester. You're a child molester. I was attacked for 1.00
00:42:45.080 talking to you, which is kind of funny. Normally people were attacked for talking to me, but I was
00:42:49.460 attacked for talking to you. But at the heart of that story was foreign influence. And I've never
00:42:57.440 heard you describe what exactly happened there. So in one sentence, news broke in the New York Times
00:43:03.960 at the House Ethics Committee?
00:43:07.420 No, this was, this was, I got news that the Department of Justice-
00:43:11.420 Oh, sorry, it was DOJ. It was a criminal investigation.
00:43:13.580 This was investigating me. And obviously I knew that the allegations were false, that someone
00:43:19.520 was just-
00:43:19.920 You'd be in jail right now if they were true.
00:43:21.200 Obviously. And the fact-
00:43:22.120 You and Andrew Tate would both be in jail, so stop with the bullshit. 0.99
00:43:25.040 And by the way, like, no one has ever even made an accusation against me in any forum in which I 0.98
00:43:30.940 can depose witnesses, do cross-examination, review records. So like, that's how you know the
00:43:36.000 allegations against me are false. No one is ever willing to make them in any forum where I'm allowed to
00:43:41.420 fight back, where I have any of the tools that you would get in due process.
00:43:44.140 Well, you haven't been charged and brought to court.
00:43:46.260 Charged, sued, anything. And so I-
00:43:49.300 You've never been sued on the basis of this.
00:43:51.020 No, no, of course not. And if anyone were to sue me, a human being would have to stand up and
00:43:55.340 make an accusation against me and have their name behind it. That's never happened. Who is the person
00:43:59.680 who has publicly accused me of misconduct regarding women? It doesn't exist, right? It is just an op.
00:44:06.340 And it was an op to silence me. And Israel was involved. And I hate to say that. I was shocked 0.60
00:44:12.320 to learn it. But there was a consulate official-
00:44:15.500 Okay, this is amazing. So this is the charge that you were like trafficking underage girls.
00:44:20.480 It-
00:44:20.940 Absurd.
00:44:21.740 I don't even know what the charge was, but that was the headline.
00:44:23.840 Matt Gaetz traffics underage women. It's like, oh my gosh, can't talk to Matt Gaetz anymore.
00:44:27.740 Well, for us, the shocking moment was when my father, who's a prominent person in our community,
00:44:33.620 got outreach from someone he had never met that said that there were pictures and images of me
00:44:39.640 with underage prostitutes, and my dad needed to meet with these people right away. And so my dad, 0.93
00:44:46.340 somewhat surprised and concerned, goes and talks to these people and says, what in the world are
00:44:50.600 you talking about? And they said, well, Mr. Gaetz, we need $25 million from you to go and rescue a
00:44:58.960 a spy that is being held in Iran. And if you do that, we can make these things about your son go
00:45:05.800 away. Which was crazy and wild. We did what any reasonable people would do. We went to the FBI and
00:45:12.120 said that we were being extorted by these folks with their false claims. And we later learned that
00:45:18.480 this consulate official working for the Israeli government was sending text messages to Scott
00:45:24.620 Adams, of all people, the Dilbert cartoonist, saying they were expecting my father to furnish
00:45:30.760 this $25 million payment, and that that would be evidence of my consciousness of guilt.
00:45:37.140 For the American FBI agent grabbed on an Iranian island, maybe 18 or 19 years ago.
00:45:42.420 And I don't know anything about this person. I don't know if the person's dead or alive.
00:45:46.080 But it was troubling and concerning to me that someone who was getting paid by the Israeli
00:45:51.460 government was involved in a criminal shakedown of a U.S. congressman. And someone went to jail
00:45:57.920 for this. Someone, the person who conveyed this message to my father, pled guilty to the attempted
00:46:03.360 fraud. And surprisingly, there was never really an effort to figure out what the government of
00:46:10.580 Israel's involvement was in this matter.
00:46:12.600 But you know that the government of Israel was involved because this was an Israeli government
00:46:17.300 official who was involved in this? Yes. Yes. A person who, his name's Jake Novak. I think he
00:46:21.800 currently works for Real America's Voice. And he sent text messages. Wait, what?
00:46:25.760 Yeah. Yeah. That's the name of the official. And he sent messages to Scott Adams saying that
00:46:31.080 he was involved in this scheme that was later deemed a criminal scheme to shake down my family
00:46:36.600 So what happened to him? He got a television show. Come on now. I didn't know any of this. I'm not
00:46:44.040 playing dumb. I really didn't know that. Have you ever talked to him about it? I have attempted to
00:46:49.960 figure out because obviously I still have a lot of unanswered questions about why he was working for
00:46:55.100 a foreign government and trying to shake down my family. What's the answer, do you think? 1.00
00:47:01.160 Well, some have shared with me their concern that this was a consequence of some of the
00:47:07.180 votes and positions I took in the Congress. I represented one of the most military heavy
00:47:11.880 districts in the entire country. I think number one. Yeah, right up there. And I saw these wars
00:47:19.100 in the Middle East that my neighbors and friends had fought in as unworthy of our best, unworthy of the 0.98
00:47:28.240 disruptions in parenting and the divorces and the injuries.
00:47:33.060 Suicides, yeah.
00:47:33.540 And so I took the position that we should be less entangled in these things. And I think that really
00:47:40.040 shocked a number of people who thought I would be more of a neocon coming from the district I came
00:47:45.460 from. And I think that with the Israel influence operation, it's always fire and ice. It's always 0.92
00:47:53.740 outreach followed by consequence and then outreach and then consequence. Even to this day, there was
00:48:00.460 someone who just appeared and offered to pay me a bunch of money to go to Israel and give a bunch
00:48:05.680 of speeches. And, you know, you decline those offers when you don't feel they're appropriate. And then
00:48:11.120 lo and behold, it's like Greenblatt on the other side of the operation calling you an anti-Semite.
00:48:16.520 This just happened to you?
00:48:19.140 Yeah.
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00:48:36.080 Gold survives. The same Americans who think they're protecting themselves with gold are the ones getting
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00:48:44.300 dollars to promote gold companies. How'd they get the money to spend that much on marketing? Because
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00:49:21.220 You've got such a, maybe you've just been around, you're younger than I am, but been around a lot.
00:49:25.020 You have such a blasé attitude. Like, yeah, that happens. People try to pay you off, then they
00:49:28.460 threaten you, pay you off, then they threaten you. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, this is the parlance
00:49:33.740 of government. It's a series of carrots and sticks. And, you know, I was the only Republican
00:49:40.440 in the entire Congress during my time there who refused all PAC and lobbyist donations because it
00:49:47.260 was like a game I just didn't want to win. What you have to realize is what most of your Congress
00:49:51.060 is doing most of the time is trying to move up in this system. And sometimes moving up means a better
00:49:56.880 committee. Sometimes it's like getting invited to better dinner parties. We've lived in Washington for
00:50:01.240 many years. You know that there's this like hidden dinner party circuit that is reflective of your
00:50:07.020 influence and your acceptance. And people who are probably good people when they get elected
00:50:12.380 go there and morally compromise for that. And I just like reached a point one time when I just
00:50:18.260 thought, I don't even care. Like, it's like, oh, well, if you do enough favors for the chief deputy
00:50:23.320 whip, they'll invite you to their fundraiser. And then you could move up and the whip could invite you
00:50:29.040 to his foreign trip. And if you say the right things on the foreign trip and kiss the ring,
00:50:34.580 well, then maybe like the majority leader will want you on a task force. And at the end of the day,
00:50:38.520 I thought, I'm not here to do any of this stuff. And I don't really care about any of it.
00:50:41.720 Those are prizes not worth winning, too.
00:50:43.700 Yeah, it's sort of like the homecoming court. Like nobody really cares except the people doing it.
00:50:47.740 The problem is in Congress, the people who are not the brightest and not the, you know,
00:50:53.980 I think most service-oriented often prevail in that system.
00:51:00.460 It's all so low bar. So just pathetic. 0.99
00:51:04.760 And it's even more pathetic when really smart, accomplished people do it. 0.99
00:51:09.920 That's always what amazed me. If you're like, I'm just a country lawyer from North Florida, 0.91
00:51:13.820 been in the legislature, got elected to Congress. I'd never done anything in my life that
00:51:16.680 rendered me a war hero or some tycoon of industry.
00:51:19.940 But those people do get elected at times. And then you just go watch them debase themselves.
00:51:26.080 And they become actors. And the scripts are written by the lobby corps and produced and
00:51:33.700 directed by the leadership.
00:51:36.640 You never took APAC money?
00:51:38.720 I did not. I refused those funds.
00:51:42.260 How did that go for you?
00:51:43.700 I just, you know.
00:51:44.960 Well, I guess you ultimately got blackmailed.
00:51:47.440 I didn't become attorney general.
00:51:48.880 Oh, I forgot about that.
00:51:52.380 But that wasn't precisely about APAC for me. That was just about all of it.
00:51:57.700 I even had groups like the NRA or Right to Life that I was largely aligned with say,
00:52:02.040 well, will you take APAC money? And I just, the whole thing seemed untoward.
00:52:06.300 Like, how do you take money from people who have a specific interest at times hundreds of thousands
00:52:11.460 of millions of dollars and then go stand at the fish house in Pensacola, Florida and tell people
00:52:15.900 you're not influenced by it? I just, I couldn't perform the act anymore.
00:52:19.180 Now, there's, you know, there's, there are other, uh, throughout my time in Congress, there are other,
00:52:23.680 um, kind of accommodations you have to make.
00:52:26.360 Like, I had to be there willing, able, anytime your bookers or anybody else's bookers would call
00:52:32.960 and say, come be on television. Because my theory was, if I wasn't going to have the resources to
00:52:37.240 buy ads, just go be on TV a lot. And, uh, you know, that, that comes with its own compromise to your life
00:52:43.720 and, and, uh, your overall operation.
00:52:46.520 Right. Well, life is a series of traps, right? And sometimes you don't know you're falling into them.
00:52:51.440 Yeah.
00:52:51.840 It seems like a good trade, but it never is. So, but just to go back to what happened to you. So, um,
00:52:57.180 this guy or a series of people approached your dad and said, we have documentary evidence that your
00:53:05.300 son, like photos, photos, slept with underage girls. Will you give us 25 million to go find
00:53:11.080 the FBI agent, Bob Levinson, Levinson. Right. Also working for CIA who was grabbed on this island in
00:53:18.120 Iran, still in custody, dead or alive. Your dad says, no, contacts you, you call the FBI. The person
00:53:26.240 who reached out gets convicted of that goes to jail for it. But this other guy is never punished
00:53:33.500 for it. The one who's working for the Israeli government. And then the story winds up in the
00:53:40.640 New York times. How does it wind up in the New York times? Well, I think that Bill Barr told them
00:53:45.900 Bill Barr was a very well known source for the New York times. Bill Barr was the attorney general.
00:53:51.640 And he hated me and he and I, we were in a big dispute about, uh, his unwillingness to enforce
00:53:59.280 some of the election integrity laws. There was a case in Florida where a Democrat supervisor of
00:54:05.560 elections brought to the U S attorney, a clear instance of fraud where a Soros aligned organization
00:54:10.500 was fraudulently creating voter registrations so that they could request absentee ballots that were,
00:54:15.980 that were ghost votes. And, uh, the U S attorney asked for resources to pursue that investigation.
00:54:23.240 And Bill Barr refused and said, I refuse to investigate any of this stuff because it will
00:54:28.040 decrease confidence in the elections. This was before the 2020 election. And so I was constantly
00:54:33.140 pestering president Trump and, and members of his administration, the bill Barr had to be dealt
00:54:38.400 with on this. You can't just say that you're not going to investigate something because the
00:54:41.600 investigation itself will, uh, will impact people's confidence. And so he and I were in
00:54:48.040 that big struggle and I believe he was angry with me and, you know, uh, wanted to leak things that
00:54:53.540 would hurt me. This is the guy who covered up the murder of an American citizen in federal detention
00:54:58.020 in New York city. Um, I mean the person who was murdered is called Jeffrey Epstein. So I, I understand
00:55:03.840 that I'm not defending Jeffrey Epstein, but no American should be murdered extrajudicially in federal
00:55:09.200 lockup. Right. And Bill Barr covered up that murder. Also, I mean, we're the United States
00:55:12.920 of America. You can't even go in and out of a casino without people knowing that you're there
00:55:18.120 and without it being on every camera. And you're telling me that we don't have the video of Epstein
00:55:23.180 killing himself and that we're all just supposed to expect this guy who we know, we know all those
00:55:28.280 people who are in the admin. Now, my friends, they know Epstein was Intel. They know he was tied to
00:55:33.060 our Intel. They know he was tied to Mossad. They knew he was tied to Saudi. He was a free agent.
00:55:37.420 He was willing to go. And British intelligence. Yeah. And he was willing to go and get this
00:55:41.700 compromise at a time when British, the British and the Israelis and the United States government
00:55:46.920 needed to get people aligned with the Iraq war. And there was a worry that people would drift off
00:55:51.800 and start opposing an increasingly unpopular war in Iraq. And so they got together a bunch of people
00:55:56.760 in academia, politics, media, business, and tried to get them in a compromising situation so that then
00:56:03.500 everyone would stay on board no matter what. That does not sound unlikely. But when he died,
00:56:09.580 Barr, by his own admission, he said, our job is to convince the American public he killed himself
00:56:14.180 and prevent dangerous conspiracy theories from threatening. The guy was murdered. And so Barr is
00:56:19.120 by definition corrupt. Like you can't, attorney generals can't do that. That is totally over the top. 0.57
00:56:24.180 So, and he was fighting with you, but you think he's the one who leaked this stuff?
00:56:32.980 Leaks happen in a while. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and pearl clutch over some leak. When I,
00:56:37.820 you know, when the FBI took my phone away, I assumed this was all, you know, when they first came-
00:56:43.520 On what grounds did they take your phone away?
00:56:44.680 Well, they came with a subpoena and said, we want your phone. And at the time I was somewhat relieved
00:56:48.320 because I thought, perfect. If what you think's in my phone is some sort of untoward issue with
00:56:52.880 underage people, have a look. There's, you know, and obviously if I'd committed any crimes,
00:56:58.120 they kept my phone for years. And-
00:57:01.580 They did?
00:57:02.040 Yeah, they did.
00:57:04.400 And you've never been charged with anything?
00:57:06.120 No.
00:57:07.060 What's it like, because we have a justice system, you know, it's still in place, I think.
00:57:11.440 We've got courts and stuff and police and all that. But what's it like to be accused of
00:57:17.860 of a real crime, you know, child sex trafficking, and then sort of wait for all these years to
00:57:25.640 get indicted for it, have someone prove it, and that never happens.
00:57:29.320 Well, I mean, I know who I am. The people around me know who I am. I would, during these
00:57:33.820 investigations, repeatedly run back to my district. And despite Kevin McCarthy spending millions of
00:57:38.720 dollars to try to defeat me, I was always overwhelmingly reelected. And so I took comfort
00:57:43.660 in knowing-
00:57:43.900 But you got reelected in the middle of this.
00:57:45.080 Yeah. Despite, you know, a lot of folks not wanting me to return to Washington. But there
00:57:50.820 is comfort in knowing that, you know, the people will be there for you, your family,
00:57:58.140 the folks you care about. And so I'm not a tragic case by any sense. I wish I would have
00:58:02.600 had the chance to be attorney general. I said a lot of bad things about senators over the
00:58:06.620 years that made that impossible for me to achieve.
00:58:09.280 So walk us through that. So Trump announces you're going to be AG.
00:58:12.780 And I have not campaigned for that position. To be clear, I love President Trump and was there to
00:58:19.760 support his transition as a friend, a confidant, someone who had been there during the tough times
00:58:25.180 in his first term. I mean, the real reason I was hanging around the transition is because I
00:58:29.480 remembered what it was like when you had a good amount of the cabinet hoping that Donald Trump was
00:58:34.320 a criminal and wanting to install Mike Pence. And just the nightmare that that was. So I was there
00:58:39.880 to be a trusted friend. And Charlie Kirk and Stephen Miller and I had talked to a number of
00:58:46.400 people who wanted to be attorney general. And we were presenting some of those ideas to the
00:58:51.960 president. I was advocating for a different person to be the attorney general on a plane ride with the
00:58:57.380 president. And he just sort of, as he has a tendency to do, said that that wasn't who he wanted.
00:59:03.060 And he wanted me to do the job. And you had no idea this was coming?
00:59:07.300 No, none. And it was...
00:59:09.440 So you're telling Trump, actually, I think you should pick so-and-so.
00:59:12.160 Right, right. And I did tell him if he wanted me to do it, I would do my best job. I would work
00:59:16.200 hard to be confirmed. And that I thought I could lead the department out of some of its darkest days
00:59:22.220 and towards something better. I think Pam Bondi has done a very good job. I know she has her critics.
00:59:27.240 By the way, I would have too. Like if I'd have been the attorney general,
00:59:29.860 there probably would be a whole ecosystem saying I wasn't doing enough. But I actually think Pam
00:59:35.620 Bondi's done a good job. And I'm here to be her supporter and advocate.
00:59:39.060 Clearly, you are here to be her supporter and advocate. I disagree. But whatever, I think...
00:59:44.740 But let's get into that, Tucker.
00:59:46.220 Wait, but hold on. I'm not here to attack Pam Bondi, who I know well, and I've always liked Pam
00:59:51.420 Bondi. But you were willing as a sitting member of the Congress and the House to go after
00:59:59.300 your own party when you thought that they were wrong.
01:00:02.240 Yeah. And I think Trump also believed that someone who had been unfairly accused of something
01:00:08.500 and who had endured the grind of that...
01:00:12.040 Would care about justice.
01:00:13.060 Yeah, would be really interested in fixing it. I mean, I think that's why President Trump asked
01:00:18.140 me to do the job is because he saw that I could empathize with those who had been treated unfairly
01:00:23.580 and that I would approach the position with a true sense of justice.
01:00:26.620 I love that. No, I share that view. And I do think the only quality that matters in a leader
01:00:31.780 is strength. So we can oppress people. Weak people oppress others. Strong people have no
01:00:38.960 need to oppress others or rule over others. They can serve others because they're not compensating
01:00:43.580 for the void within them. And I think you would have been the best person I can think of because
01:00:50.100 you've been through it. You didn't collapse. You married a great girl right in the middle of it.
01:00:54.220 You got reelected. Your life shows that you were not destroyed by what happened to you. So you are
01:00:59.260 strong. By definition, that's what we need. And all of America's problems are downstream from weak
01:01:02.960 men, obviously. That's why the women are crazy, because the men are weak. So let's find a strong 1.00
01:01:07.800 one to lead a critical agency. That's my primitive view of it, but I think I'm right.
01:01:12.340 What happened? Why did you not get that gig?
01:01:16.500 There were a lot of great people I interacted with in the Senate, but at the end of the day,
01:01:19.860 there was a core block of about half a dozen of them who'd said they would never vote for me. And
01:01:24.840 I could have endeavored to grind that down, maybe win one or two of them possibly over an extended
01:01:32.720 period of time. But you saw the way courts started enjoining the actions of this administration
01:01:38.940 right off the bat. Pam Bondi did defeat nationwide injunctions as a ruling legal theory. And had we 0.99
01:01:47.300 not had her and her team lined up to do that, I actually think that we'd be in a very different
01:01:51.420 position today with the deportation agenda. But I mean, look, you know how a lot of my
01:01:58.720 conversations went. I'd be like, yes, Senator, so this is Matt Gaetz. I'm calling about my
01:02:02.720 confirmation for attorney. What was tweeted about you? Now, that was a staffer years ago,
01:02:06.800 and they were fired immediately. Oh, they were that petty. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Several would bring
01:02:13.700 things I tweeted about them to the meetings. Is that really, so the point of your attorney general
01:02:18.780 is not to say mean things about an individual senator? Like, what? Talk about making it
01:02:23.100 about you. Who cares? And then I had one senator from Oklahoma really grill me about my vote
01:02:33.060 against the anti-Semitism bill. So, you know, how can I vote for someone who voted against
01:02:37.480 the anti-Semitism bill? And I'm thinking, like, is this some driving issue in Oklahoma that
01:02:41.980 I'm unaware of? Just mentioning it. Yeah. Langford is such a weak man. It's sad. And
01:02:54.940 is a tool for evil, in my opinion. So, sorry, that's what I think. But despite, you know,
01:03:00.260 having good qualities. But who were the senators who were against you? Do you care to name any
01:03:04.040 of them? You know, I don't know that that's productive. But I think that it would not be
01:03:09.060 difficult to look at the college of senators who have been otherwise problematic for some
01:03:17.400 of Trump's appointees. And that's where I had problems. So you decided to bow out?
01:03:23.260 Yeah. I didn't think that me doing some multi-week, multi-month fight to try to grind down the last
01:03:31.220 of Mitch McConnell was somehow going to help the administration in the end.
01:03:35.020 Can I ask, do you think, just since you know the system so well, because you serve within
01:03:38.560 it most of your life, do you think there's anything you could have traded in exchange for
01:03:42.940 their support? I don't know. I don't know. I oftentimes couldn't get a meeting, you know,
01:03:49.960 with people like Senator Murkowski and Senator Collins. They were not interested in even having
01:03:54.460 a discussion with me. So it would have been hard to execute a trade.
01:03:58.260 I mean, I think part of the problem is you're not the kind of guy who makes those trades.
01:04:02.220 And that's why they opposed you in the first place.
01:04:04.540 Well, and I think also there's something unsettling about my unpredictability. You know,
01:04:09.920 people who read the script are easy to predict and manage.
01:04:17.540 So you wind up with a government and business, you wind up with a whole society run by weak
01:04:23.400 people.
01:04:25.140 Not at the top. Trump's pretty strong. And I think Vance is strong. And I think Suzy Wiles is strong. 0.61
01:04:30.000 But there's no doubt about what you just said. But no, I mean, beneath the very, you know,
01:04:34.780 you're talking about the pinnacle of the pyramid. I mean, like all the way down.
01:04:38.420 They're just, everyone's so weak. And that's where evil thrives is in weakness.
01:04:44.600 Weakness and risk aversion.
01:04:46.860 And risk aversion is fundamentally anti-American. We are a nation of risk takers at our best moments.
01:04:52.640 That's who we are. But in government, it's often, you know, how do I avoid any attention
01:04:59.220 or ire? I do think that, you know, probably the riskiest thing we've seen is what Obama got
01:05:05.080 everybody together to do on December 9th of 2016 when he ordered the Russia hoax. I think that is
01:05:11.940 really the original sin of a lot of this that has happened. And, you know, I certainly would have
01:05:18.340 brought a RICO charge against the people who were involved in that decision-making process and
01:05:23.140 participating in the various predicate criminal acts. I wouldn't be surprised if that's precisely
01:05:28.660 what Pam Bondi does. When the Biden FBI raided Trump's house, they engaged in a predicate criminal 0.83
01:05:39.580 act to try to get information back that was exculpatory as to Trump. From my standpoint,
01:05:44.900 that would properly venue a RICO charge against the major players in the deep state in the Southern
01:05:51.020 District of Florida, rather than in Washington, D.C., where they have an administrative and judicial
01:05:56.680 advantage. So the Russia hoax was predicated on something that I'm pretty sure was a lie, which is that
01:06:03.960 the Russian government stole a tranche of emails from the DNC earlier that year. But it got reinvigorated
01:06:11.880 after. Of course it did. All of that got dispensed with. Then Trump won, which people weren't expecting.
01:06:17.180 And Obama, on December 9th, calls in Clapper, Brennan, Comey, and says, you guys have got to go
01:06:22.240 out and reignite this Russia thing. And in that effort, you see all of this offense against George
01:06:29.300 Papadopoulos. Oh, I remember. You see the activation of foreign intelligence networks to try to create
01:06:36.760 some predicate for spying on the Trump campaign. And where does that leave us? I think in almost a post-coup
01:06:45.960 country. Well, we're literally at war with Russia today as a result of this hysteria, which was all the
01:06:51.820 kind of predicate for that war. And, you know, it's just the human cost. There was a real discussion in the
01:06:57.720 90s going on about extending NATO membership to Russia, which is what we should have done.
01:07:02.000 What do you mean? Putin, in his first meeting with George W. Bush, was like right at the beginning of
01:07:07.040 2020, 2001, said, I want to join NATO. Imagine where we would be right now if the United States
01:07:16.220 and Russia had created peace and a security infrastructure around Europe, I think appropriately
01:07:22.220 position NATO as an alliance against the excesses of Sino expansion. It would be a safer world. It would be a 0.79
01:07:29.020 more prosperous world. Of course, all the way to Asia because Russia extends into Asia. And right. So you would
01:07:35.180 have a Western bloc of not identical countries. Russia's got a different system, different culture, different
01:07:40.760 language, different history. But so many aligned interests with NATO when it comes to countering
01:07:45.700 extremism, having strong borders, you know, all of the things that trade, trade, one of the most mineral
01:07:51.800 dense countries in the world, right? It's basically a Western country produced Dostoevsky. And don't,
01:07:57.200 don't tell me otherwise. Anyway, yeah, I couldn't agree more. But I just want to get to this something
01:08:02.400 I've never gotten past, which is the question of whether the Russian government stole those emails
01:08:08.840 from the DNC during the Democratic primary. And then this DNC staffer called Seth Rich is murdered
01:08:15.740 in Washington, D.C. in a robbery in which his wallet is not taken. And a number of conservative,
01:08:23.760 conservative people who call themselves conservatives went on TV and said, I think Seth Rich was murdered
01:08:30.780 because he knew too much. And then those people were either sued or threatened with lawsuits from
01:08:35.400 Seth Rich's family. So everybody shut up about it. And then Julian Assange is asked repeatedly,
01:08:41.640 who runs WikiLeaks at the time before they sent him to prison for talking like this,
01:08:46.020 did the Russians send you that information? And he goes, no. Did Seth Rich? And he says,
01:08:52.560 we're not going to talk about that. So the heavy implication is that Seth, and I don't know the
01:08:55.960 answer, despite knowing Julian Assange, but the heavy implication was that Seth Rich sent this
01:09:02.780 information because he was offended by how the DNC was taking Bernie Sanders out, was basically all
01:09:10.740 behind Hillary Clinton. It was a rigged election, and they were crushing Bernie Sanders, and he was
01:09:15.340 offended, so he leaked these emails. And they killed him for it. And no one was allowed to talk about that.
01:09:19.520 Now, I don't know if that's what happened, but I knew someone at a very high level of the DNC who
01:09:22.860 thought that's what happened. And no one's ever talked about it again.
01:09:26.180 We in Congress had people that were doing various roles within the DC Police Department
01:09:33.840 come and say, we want to be whistleblowers, and we want to talk about the way in which this
01:09:39.940 investigation was truncated. And we didn't get to really do the-
01:09:44.360 No, the FBI took over.
01:09:45.520 Yeah, do the shoe leather work. But there's a way that the FBI can involve themselves in these
01:09:51.720 investigations that doesn't strip the agency completely away from their partners to also
01:09:57.040 participate. And so these whistleblowers were concerned about that. And then, you know,
01:10:01.020 ultimately, they weren't really given much of a platform and disappeared.
01:10:04.400 Well, we never saw Seth Rich's laptop. And that story just ended. And I'm not alleging-
01:10:08.780 But isn't the tell in that how it kept shifting? Like, first, it was the emails. And then it was
01:10:15.980 Vladimir Putin had taken over Facebook with $120,000. And then it was actually like George
01:10:22.000 Papadopoulos in a London bar. Then it was Don Jr. at Trump Tower. It was an effort to obscure the lack
01:10:33.160 of quality in any of these theories by just having a sufficient quantity of them.
01:10:37.060 Well, that's always- That's called flooding the zone. And that's what happened. I'm watching
01:10:42.600 that happen right now. That's what always- That is the most classic move of anyone involved
01:10:48.980 in a PSYOP, the Intel community. Yeah, you just- You see this with UAPs. It's pretty obvious
01:10:55.260 what they are, actually, in my view. But no, it's this. It's men from Mars. It's an advanced
01:11:01.040 technology program. It's like, whatever. Yeah, they flood it with too many theories. And you
01:11:05.940 think that's what happened there? Of course, because none of the theories could individually
01:11:09.160 hold water. And I had a recent conversation with CIA Director John Ratcliffe, and I like John,
01:11:15.240 but I chastised him for not answering some of these fundamental questions. Joseph Mifsud was this
01:11:23.480 professor who was drawn into an intelligence operation against the United States. He was drawn
01:11:28.520 into that operation either by the United States or one of our allies. How do we not know the answer
01:11:32.220 to that question? This was the key thing that we said we were going to uncover when we got power.
01:11:38.880 And I know they got a lot of work to do to keep the country safe, but I would encourage the Director
01:11:43.600 of the CIA to really tell us the CIA's role. What's the answer, do you think?
01:11:47.840 Well, I believe that some of this crowd in the Obama administration knew that their direct management
01:11:56.080 of an asset against the Trump administration would create paperwork, payments, complicating things that
01:12:02.120 could be found out. And so they went to other European countries and said, you know, you do us a favor,
01:12:08.360 we do you a favor, but the favor we want from you is actually to go against our country, our presidential
01:12:13.700 candidate, Donald Trump. And that is treasonous. That is straight treason to ask another country to attack
01:12:19.940 your country. And I think that occurred. And I think that if we knew who had authorized that,
01:12:26.840 we would have a person to be at the center of this Broderico conspiracy.
01:12:32.140 Yeah. And traditionally, it's been Britain and France who play that role.
01:12:36.700 Huge intel presence in Italy as well.
01:12:39.240 Exactly.
01:12:39.960 It's one of the biggest CIA.
01:12:41.080 And now with the growth of NATO under this war, it's Romania, it's Eastern Europe, it's wherever you
01:12:46.600 have a NATO base, you have, there are a lot of other things that come with it, of course. So you've
01:12:51.360 seen this a lot where American political actors or IC members in the United States use foreign
01:12:57.460 governments to do their work for them.
01:13:00.560 Yeah. And I am concerned that that doesn't just happen abroad, that that happens even within the
01:13:07.280 eight square miles of Washington, D.C.
01:13:09.680 Did you feel when you worked there that there was a lot of intrigue?
01:13:13.120 Yeah. There's always intrigue. But I think that a lot of the decisions that get made in Washington
01:13:21.260 are detached from the elected leaders. And there probably should be more intrigue, actually.
01:13:27.780 Our lawmakers should be more curious and inquisitive and skeptical.
01:13:33.440 What do you mean a lot of the decisions that are made are detached from elected leaders?
01:13:36.820 Well, look, take these bills that get written, right? Do you think that anyone who voted for
01:13:42.580 the One Big Beautiful Bill Act was trying to outlaw hemp? It just was stuck in the bill. And then
01:13:48.580 they voted for it. And however you feel about hemp, I think it's kind of crazy that an issue wouldn't
01:13:55.660 even get its own dignity. The lashing together of disparate issues for just an up or down vote that
01:14:02.100 kind of becomes a shirts and skins exercise is a way to detach from the realities of the decision
01:14:10.300 making. And those decisions are made by staff, by interest groups, by foreign countries at times.
01:14:17.560 What's going to happen in the next two election cycles?
01:14:20.200 I think we are headed for a bloodbath in the midterms for a few reasons, primarily history.
01:14:26.780 Uh, you, the president's party loses seats during the midterms. I don't think I'm breaking any news
01:14:31.820 there. Um, uh, and I think that, uh, the other side just really worked up and they, they have an
01:14:38.820 organizing principle. The organizing principle of the left in America today is we hate Trump and they
01:14:44.740 don't really need any more than that. And there's something elegant politically about using that to
01:14:50.000 activate voters. Yeah, totally. Whereas we're trying to tell people to reward us for securing the
01:14:55.760 border and voting is rarely an exercise in rewarding prior conduct. It is always about
01:15:03.920 new promises. Uh, what are the new promises you're making? And right now, a lot of people have economic
01:15:09.980 anxiety around the cost of living. I think the Democrats again have an elegant presentation to
01:15:15.420 make, which is we're going to take the things that cost you a lot of money and have the government
01:15:19.920 provide those to you. And then those things won't cost you a lot of money. And we try to make an
01:15:24.780 argument about economic theory that doesn't always land with the same poignance.
01:15:29.680 So midterms in a year, very tough. Yeah, we, I think, I think Hakeem Jeffries becomes the speaker.
01:15:35.600 I think that, uh, they will then be cut. The problem is the candy becomes the poison for them
01:15:42.380 because, uh, when they do this big elect us so that we can use all these tools to fight Trump,
01:15:49.320 then once, once they get that power, they're going to be pressed to continually use the silliest ones.
01:15:56.280 And think about what they've already used. They've already used like the, the attempted application
01:15:59.920 of criminal law that backfired. They already used the impeachment process that backfired.
01:16:04.800 And so what I, what I think Democrats believe, or, or what they've recently been conditioned to
01:16:09.840 believe is that shutdowns are good for them under Trump, that that's good politics. So my prediction
01:16:15.200 is Democrats win the midterms. They execute a series of ransom, like shutdowns, uh, on Trump.
01:16:22.420 The country gets weary of that and probably elects J.D. Vance president in 2028.
01:16:27.680 What's the field look like in 2028?
01:16:29.640 On, on our side?
01:16:31.800 I mean, I'm just assuming that there will be, you know, Ted, I mean, Ted Cruz is running, I guess.
01:16:37.600 Against you apparently, which is like, I've never seen that. It's, it's odd to have someone running
01:16:43.380 for president against the, the, the, the organizing principle of their campaign is to attack someone
01:16:48.180 else who is not running for president. It's, it's a novel theory for Ted, but you know,
01:16:53.440 Ted, what is that to you? Ted and Ron DeSantis, uh, both want to be president really bad, but
01:16:57.180 they're just, they suffer from a likability problem and they're not really having a good
01:17:01.500 time. And when you run for president, when you run for president, there's an element of
01:17:07.880 it where the people have to feel like they're a part of something fun. And that's something
01:17:11.940 Trump understood. That's something Charlie Kirk understood. And, you know, for, for Ron
01:17:16.680 and Ted, it is, uh, you know, the campaign is sort of something they have to do in order
01:17:21.320 to get the power that they seek.
01:17:23.020 So what is that intent? I mean, I could see, you know, Ron DeSantis has been really successful
01:17:26.860 in a lot of ways.
01:17:27.940 I would vote for him again for governor. If he could run again for governor of Florida,
01:17:30.920 I would too. I would too. Despite the fact he signed a hate speech law in Israel, which
01:17:35.800 is like so offensive to me as an American, not because I'm against Israel, but we don't have 1.00
01:17:39.800 hate speech laws in the United States. And when we do, we don't sign them in foreign 0.99
01:17:42.520 countries. So I, you know, whatever.
01:17:44.280 But you'd still vote for him again.
01:17:45.780 I would.
01:17:46.040 For governor of Florida?
01:17:46.800 Yeah.
01:17:47.100 Oh, without thinking about it.
01:17:48.600 For sure. I think he's been a great governor. You know, you could, whatever, quibble about
01:17:52.440 it, but generally, no, he's been great. I totally agree. But Ted Cruz is not going to
01:17:58.580 be president.
01:17:59.340 No.
01:17:59.940 Obviously, nobody thinks that. I'm sure Mrs. Cruz doesn't think that. She probably wants to
01:18:03.160 get out of the house. Who knows what's going on? But why doesn't Ted, who's famously,
01:18:07.520 obviously the smartest person in America, why can't he see that?
01:18:10.620 Well, I think that as we were discussing earlier, running for president is an itch that doesn't
01:18:16.820 go away with one scratch. I think that, you know, he believed he should have defeated Trump
01:18:21.660 in the 2016 election and he's toiling in the Senate until he gets the next bite at the
01:18:26.120 apple. I think on the other side, I would have believed before Kamala Harris that the
01:18:31.580 Democrats had nominated their last straight white guy.
01:18:34.520 Yeah, I would think so too.
01:18:35.580 Yeah, that's just not, I mean, it is, you know, it is a movement that stands against
01:18:40.040 straightness and white people.
01:18:42.060 Is Gavin straight?
01:18:43.480 I, I, I, he seems to be pretty enthusiastic heterosexual based on some of his personal
01:18:49.180 conduct.
01:18:49.720 Again, no judgment.
01:18:49.980 You never know. It could be an omnivore. There's some of those.
01:18:53.420 Yeah, we're not the bedroom police.
01:18:55.280 Oh, no, I don't even want to think about it, honestly.
01:18:57.920 But Newsom has at least demonstrated power. And I think that is what Democrats have lacked
01:19:05.420 in this time in the wilderness, in the Trump era, is that no one steps up and says, I'm
01:19:09.680 ready to use power effectively. And when Gavin Newsom stole those congressional seats with
01:19:15.160 Prop 50 in California, it was an effective exercise of power. And I think voters may reward
01:19:21.120 him for that. You know, someone else in the Democratic Party who wants to be president
01:19:25.480 told me that it was actually Kamala Harris who has like reignited the prospects of Gavin
01:19:31.480 Newsom. If they'd have just run Biden and lost, they would have never gone back to another
01:19:35.280 straight white guy. But rolling out Harris and the embarrassment that that was has people
01:19:41.040 thinking, well, you know, maybe we don't want to try this again.
01:19:43.980 No, that's, that's, I believe that. Just knowing what they're like, they're just, they're just
01:19:48.580 transactional. They just want power. That's it. They don't have any beliefs. They just want
01:19:51.400 to be in charge. And I get it. I find it terrifying. But that's who they are. And I also think that
01:19:57.640 when Gavin started going on conservative podcasts, that's when I was like, ooh, you are formidable.
01:20:03.700 I mean, he didn't, you know, defend his own policies very effectively. It didn't matter. He,
01:20:08.660 he like went on other people's podcasts and took questions. Ballsy.
01:20:13.080 Yeah. Well, that in, that in, in essence is an indictment of Harris because Harris could not
01:20:18.200 exactly have an extended intelligent conversation about anything. And so just getting over the most
01:20:23.920 basic of hurdles to be able to string sentences together was this great display of talent in the
01:20:28.820 democratic. And he'll say anything. He just doesn't. Yeah. But look at what they've been
01:20:31.860 through, right? Joe Biden never did extended discussions. Harris never did extended discussions.
01:20:36.720 So he was giving the base, at least some viewpoint into, into his thinking on things.
01:20:41.840 So do you think Gavin will be the nominee? Right now, I would say so. I think that AOC is going to
01:20:47.800 make a compelling run and I think she will be formidable as well. You really do? If Bernie really
01:20:54.120 does the handoff, like you and I, like Bernie has this like a kind of goofy professor persona, 0.96
01:20:59.900 but in reality, Bernie's like a deeply selfish person. He's selfish. And a coward. He's a total 0.99
01:21:05.480 coward. And he believes he is the leader of the democratic party. Does he really? Well, 1.00
01:21:09.920 but he's won every argument in it. Maybe he is the leader of the democratic party. Like
01:21:13.980 if you look on policy, Bernie is, has won the argument on this shift towards socialism,
01:21:19.520 but you know, they, the party structurally did things twice to stop him from becoming the
01:21:25.500 nominee. They stole the election from him twice. Yeah.
01:21:29.480 And he sat back and was like, Oh, I've been kind of a sexist. I'm sorry. I mean, he's such a
01:21:34.560 fucking coward. I can't deal with it. If he was real, at least I would respect it. AOC, same thing. 1.00
01:21:42.240 Yeah. AOC is a very different person today than when she got to Congress, you know, in terms of 0.79
01:21:47.360 corrupted, co-opted, uh, completely. Oh, the Gaza war is fine. It's like, what? 0.56
01:21:52.680 When we were ousting McCarthy, like she came up to me and was like, you know,
01:21:56.780 I really respect this because I'll be honest, we don't have the guts to do this on our side.
01:22:00.840 What's she like? Uh, before January 6th, she was incredibly chummy with Republicans in Congress 1.00
01:22:06.900 would regularly come over to our side, sit down, hang out, talk about her day.
01:22:11.640 Did you ever date her?
01:22:12.580 I did not. No.
01:22:13.620 Did you try?
01:22:14.000 No. And, uh, not my cup of tea, but she, uh, after January 6th, uh, like treated us
01:22:20.600 all like, you know, we had horns or something.
01:22:22.800 So she gave this kind of famous statement after January 6th and said, you know, as a trauma
01:22:26.900 survivor, I was traumatized. I was almost killed that day. Do you think, was that real?
01:22:33.180 No, but it is reflective of the performance art of, of Congress and it was just bad performance.
01:22:40.360 But how could you get points from anyone for being like, yeah, I'm a, I'm a terrified
01:22:44.180 little girl because on, I find that contempt. Well, you can't be in charge of anything if
01:22:48.460 you're a terrified little girl. Sorry.
01:22:49.580 But we are a society that is increasingly built on grievance identity. Um, you are the, the,
01:22:56.500 the grievance that you can access. Right. And so if you are, uh, you know, a woman, that's 0.97
01:23:01.620 can be a source of grievance if you're a minority. And then like you have, you have people who are
01:23:05.780 just odd and say, well, maybe if I'm trans, then that can be this source of grievance.
01:23:10.360 And then you have a bunch of men, white men looking around saying, well, I guess I'll
01:23:13.720 be a drug addict because then like that can be my, my source of grievance. And, uh, you
01:23:18.580 know, there, she was leaning into that. She wanted to show that she had been aggrieved by
01:23:23.400 this act and, and should be owed some, some unique empathy. 0.93
01:23:26.760 But she revealed that she's afraid is that she's a coward. Like, how is that? The only
01:23:33.980 thing people respect on a gut level is strength and courage. That's it. So I just don't, I
01:23:40.600 don't get like, what's the, you really think that works?
01:23:42.120 And sincerity. I mean, yeah. Strength, courage, and sincerity.
01:23:44.160 Well, sincerity grows from strength and courage. I'm brave enough to tell you what I really
01:23:49.040 think.
01:23:49.320 Yeah. And I, I got to a point where I was, I was confident enough with my district where
01:23:54.980 I could say the things I believed that I knew they didn't. Uh, because even if they disagreed
01:24:00.400 with me on a subject, uh, there, they knew I came to that view sincerely that I wasn't
01:24:04.900 holding a marijuana legalization is something you and I disagree on. Uh, I, I disagreed with
01:24:09.900 a majority of my constituents on that point. I authored Florida's marijuana law. I support
01:24:14.760 President Trump rescheduling marijuana. And, uh, the, when, when people at my first Baptist
01:24:21.840 church in Fort Walton Beach, Florida came up to me to say they really disagreed with me
01:24:25.940 on that, uh, they did not vote against me as a consequence because they knew that, that
01:24:30.500 these were views that, that I sincerely hold.
01:24:33.240 Well, I, I, I could be one of those congregants at the Baptist, if I were Baptist, in the Baptist
01:24:38.540 church, because I, I agree with that. You know, I don't expect people to agree with all
01:24:42.440 of my eccentric views or my heartfelt views. It's okay. We're different people, but can't
01:24:47.180 deal with falseness at all.
01:24:49.620 And, and that I think was the magic of Trump. And I think that's a magic that he knows he
01:24:53.900 needs to reignite on the campaign trail going into these midterms, the, the connection directly
01:24:58.280 with the American voter that no matter who you are, if you're the president and behind
01:25:02.940 the resolute desk and in the Rose garden, it's a different experience than being out on the
01:25:07.660 trail in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
01:25:09.140 Yeah. So what's AOC's lane? Is it the, the Bernie lane?
01:25:14.000 Okay. But the Bernie lane was an economic lane, which I always had respect for. I didn't
01:25:17.960 agree with all of it, but we've got too many billionaires and not a big enough middle class.
01:25:23.120 That's true. That's factually true. And anyone who says that, I will agree with. And he used
01:25:26.880 to say that.
01:25:27.360 And the open borders lane.
01:25:28.360 I mean, totally.
01:25:29.300 Well, there two are related. I mean, we have all these billionaires because we've had open
01:25:32.360 borders.
01:25:32.880 They were always. I mean, Bernie at one point, as part of his like pro-American worker agenda
01:25:37.560 was actually for restricted immigration.
01:25:39.300 No, no, no. I'm saying they're related in that.
01:25:41.200 But it's the AOC corollary. It's to take the Bernie social issue, like economic socialism
01:25:45.800 and lash it to unchecked border borders. 0.93
01:25:48.300 If you care about the lopsided economy where all the wealth is concentrated in too few
01:25:54.760 hands and the country's becoming unstable as a result, it's becoming pre-Java's Venezuela,
01:26:00.000 we're going to get a revolution if this continues. I wrote a book about this.
01:26:03.780 If you care about that, you have to ask, how did that happen? And the main way it happened
01:26:07.860 was by unchecked immigration, which devalued labor. People have less economic power because
01:26:13.900 there are more people willing to work for less. It's really simple. It's the way organized
01:26:16.680 labor always supported immigration restrictions. They're the ones who got them in 1924. They 0.98
01:26:22.100 closed the borders for that reason. And Bernie was from that tradition and I always respected
01:26:26.840 it. And then he became this kind of, you know, neoliberal hybrid where he's like, oh, we got
01:26:32.020 to fight Russia and it's racist to be against borders. And like, what? You know what I mean?
01:26:38.140 We have to send money to Israel. What? Like, so I don't think that's a real lane. I don't
01:26:42.980 think it's sustainable lane. Do you? It is a sufficient cohort of voters to virtue signal
01:26:48.900 kind of a reignition of Bernie's economic policies alongside. Like she will stand up and say,
01:26:56.220 no more money for Israel, no more money for ICE and universal basic income for Americans and open
01:27:02.820 borders. That would be the core of the campaign.
01:27:05.980 Open borders with universal basic income and print more. By the way, like, I mean,
01:27:10.940 did you see what we just did in the economy in this past week? We are, we are printing money to
01:27:15.260 buy our own debt right now. The self-licking ice cream cone, the electric windmill.
01:27:22.860 I know. There's right. How much of it is real when we're printing money to buy our own debt?
01:27:30.620 Yeah. And the explosion of personal wealth among people I know is just unbelievable. Not me, but I,
01:27:39.220 at all, but I, all of a sudden, you know, people who are just like, you know, worth hundreds and
01:27:45.260 hundreds of millions of dollars. Whereas I never, and I grew up in rich people world. I never really
01:27:49.880 knew anyone with hundreds and hundreds. One in every 10 Americans is a millionaire now.
01:27:53.260 Actually? Yeah. You're including assets. Yeah. Yeah. Well, homeowners are millionaires now.
01:28:01.420 So. Well, and that, you know, if you talk about the revolution coming, I mean, housing is as likely
01:28:05.820 to be a part of that as anything else because the way housing is indexed to what people make and what
01:28:11.100 they can afford is insane in this country. Yeah. And I'm totally opposed to revolutions. However,
01:28:16.440 if there was ever a reason to have one, it's that. That's a, that's a real grievance. I think
01:28:20.740 that's totally. Isn't it kind of what all revolutions are about? Like, where am I going to live? What's
01:28:24.920 going to. Yeah. And how do my kids have kids? You know, how does this continue? How do my genes
01:28:28.840 thrive when I'm gone? I mean, yeah. Have you noticed this trend online where all these like
01:28:33.120 lonely women in their thirties are making car selfie videos about their personal anguish that 0.98
01:28:38.240 they can't find men? I posted one recently, got millions of views and it, what, what's so like,
01:28:43.620 I feel, I feel, I feel sad. Oh, so sad. I mean, my wife has so many friends who are
01:28:50.380 beautiful, accomplished, wonderful people, but they cannot find men. They cannot find
01:28:55.100 men to marry them. And they start to feel the clock ticking and it's, it's really a lonely
01:29:01.780 world out there. Well, I think it's important to identify how we got here and certain bad
01:29:06.000 ideas played a huge role. Feminism, which is like just a total lie on every level, but 1.00
01:29:10.720 also the way the economy is structured where businesses decided to be a good idea to bring
01:29:16.500 women into the workforce, a better idea than say, like supporting families or allowing people 1.00
01:29:21.400 to have children, like was more important to have female workers than it was to have 1.00
01:29:25.680 American families. This is a constant discussion we have on, on my one American news program
01:29:30.080 is like, can you have both? Cause I do see women who excel in the workplace, who build businesses, 1.00
01:29:36.460 who have great ideas and are the center of their family. Well, I certainly know a lot of women in the 1.00
01:29:42.580 workplace who are amazing. And if women left the workforce, you know, my business would fall apart 1.00
01:29:47.860 and they're the best. And anyone who's an employer, I'm a small bore employer will tell you female
01:29:54.760 employees, man. There are some jobs type a women. Well, that's crushing. That is a hundred percent 1.00
01:30:00.120 rate, of course. And, uh, and they're also like just the greatest people to work with if you're a man,
01:30:05.320 because there's no competition. They're so nice. They're always nice. I've, I've, I'm 56. I've never
01:30:11.000 had a dispute with a woman at work ever. Not one. I've seen them mistreat each other in a way the
01:30:16.760 North Koreans could learn from. It's like truly cruel the way they behave to each other. But if 1.00
01:30:21.940 you're a male employer having female employees, it is a hundred percent upside. They will never stop 0.99
01:30:27.540 thinking about their job. They will never stop being nice to you. They're great at their job.
01:30:32.540 Certain jobs, they're the only ones who can do it because they do. Do you think men are out there 1.00
01:30:36.300 looking for jobless women? Cause I certainly wasn't when I was like, you know, single and trying to find a 0.99
01:30:40.740 wife. I was not out there like seeking someone who had nothing else going on, but to serve me
01:30:47.220 in a marriage. I think it's people's passions and women will choose their family if given their 0.72
01:30:52.080 choice. And some won't, I mean, there's anomalies in every cohort, but, but what do you say to the
01:30:57.600 ones who are like, I want to make that choice? This millions of women out there that are like, 1.00
01:31:02.200 please present me the guy who isn't spending all this day playing Fortnite and, you know,
01:31:07.820 hanging out at the tattoo parlor? Well, look, the first thing to know is men and women need each
01:31:11.000 other. They can't exist separately or they're destroyed. They destroy themselves a hundred
01:31:15.260 percent. They fit together like puzzle pieces and they can't live alone. Again, there are exceptions
01:31:19.880 to all of these rules, but overpopulations, these are hard and fast rules that have existed since
01:31:23.820 Adam and Eve. So it's just a fact. And if you ignore that fact, you'll be destroyed. And we are
01:31:27.800 because we've ignored it. So most women, if given the choice between going to work at JP Morgan or 0.98
01:31:35.900 staying home and raising their small children, will of course choose staying home and raising
01:31:40.700 their small children. If they're given the choice, they're not given the choice because feminism, 0.98
01:31:43.940 total fucking lie. There are no choices. Get to work. 1.00
01:31:47.040 Well, oftentimes it's people's economic conditions that take the choice away.
01:31:49.680 If you're sitting on $130,000 in student loans, because you were told that you had this great,
01:31:54.460 that's the point I'm making. They don't have a choice. That's why they do it. And it's
01:31:59.000 a Hobson's choice. But it's not marital bondage as much as it's economic bondage
01:32:02.600 to debt. Marriage isn't bondage for women. Marriage, family is the context in which women 0.98
01:32:09.820 have the most power. Women have no power outside of their relationships. Women are relational. 1.00
01:32:14.260 So if you want to empower women... They can have power in business. They can have wealth. 1.00
01:32:17.620 They can have money. That's not power. That's not power.
01:32:20.780 Who has more power over you? Your employee or your mom? Your employee or your wife? Your 0.52
01:32:26.860 employer or your daughter? Real power is the power to influence other people. And women 1.00
01:32:33.460 outside the family have very little. Within the family, they have huge power. There's no
01:32:37.520 man...
01:32:37.920 Almost all of it.
01:32:38.800 Almost all of it. There's no man who ignores his wife. There's no son who ignores his mother.
01:32:42.980 There's no father who ignores his daughter. And so, I mean, there may be, but they're freaks.
01:32:48.300 The average man is influenced by women in the family more than any other place. So if you
01:32:53.840 want to empower women, put them at the center of a family. If you want to disempower them, 1.00
01:32:58.120 put them at the center of Citibank. It's super simple. And liars and dumb people, like a
01:33:03.640 fucking feminist, like, oh, real power comes from money and job title. And it's like, that's 1.00
01:33:08.640 a lie. And anyone who believes that is an idiot. 1.00
01:33:11.900 But they think it's their power to get a man. Like, there was this theory that the way you 1.00
01:33:16.420 prepare yourself to get the husband you want is to showcase, like, your LinkedIn resume
01:33:21.620 and your...
01:33:23.460 Who told them that?
01:33:25.420 You don't think there are a lot of women who are going to watch this program, they may have 1.00
01:33:29.360 tuned out by now, and say, yeah, like, I actually thought if I had the big job and had the house
01:33:36.240 that a man would want me more.
01:33:37.560 Are you being serious?
01:33:38.200 Yes. 0.70
01:33:38.360 I mean, look, I shouldn't be surprised if people believe dumb things, because look around. 0.99
01:33:41.700 But that's the dumbest of all. Look, imagine believing that and now being caught. 0.99
01:33:47.400 How much social science do we need? First of all, we don't need any because we just know
01:33:51.120 our lived experiences. But there's a lot of study on this. If you're interested, I happen
01:33:54.980 to be. Women do not want to marry men who make less than they do, period. In any society in
01:34:01.020 which that becomes the case, you find marriage dropping off a cliff. That's what happened in
01:34:05.200 black America. Black people used to be married like everybody else. Then black women started 1.00
01:34:09.120 making more than black men. The marriage rate declined. Rural America, rural whites. I 0.92
01:34:13.200 live in a place like this. The women, on average, make more than men because they work at the 1.00
01:34:16.340 hospitals and the schools. The men have only seasonal work. Guess what? No marriage.
01:34:20.500 So if you want to discourage marriage, set up a system where the women make more, which 1.00
01:34:25.100 is the system that we have. That's why people don't get married, because women make more. 1.00
01:34:28.380 And the women are making the decision. They don't want to, they may want to sleep with 1.00
01:34:31.220 them. They may want to have his babies. They don't want to marry him. It's just a fact.
01:34:34.320 Ask them. Ask a woman, do you want to marry a man who's shorter than you or makes less 0.98
01:34:39.620 than you? And the answer is no. But nobody asks women because nobody cares because the 1.00
01:34:43.780 idea is to destroy the country, its people, and its most basic structure, the family.
01:34:48.780 So it's just like, we're going to do this in your name and tell you what you want. But
01:34:51.940 they don't want that. And if you ask, ask 15 women, do you want to marry a man who's 0.99
01:34:54.920 shorter than you or makes less than you?
01:34:56.560 No, I've asked. Yeah, you're right. I'm so lonely. I need to find someone. I have so much
01:35:01.540 love to give. I've built a great life. I want to share it with someone. And then it's
01:35:05.060 like, okay, well, a woman says that? Oh no, women say this. And then I say, well, like, 0.99
01:35:08.680 are you cool? It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. 1.00
01:35:10.180 Are you cool with a guy who like makes less than a hundred grand? Well, you know, that 1.00
01:35:14.460 shows that he doesn't have ambition. Oh, what about someone who's a little shorter? Well,
01:35:17.700 I want to feel, you know, I want to feel feminine. And if someone's shorter that I don't
01:35:21.660 think I'll be able to achieve that. Things are more fucked up than I realize. If people 0.98
01:35:24.020 actually believe that, what? Look, a man's job is to protect and provide, period. Those are
01:35:30.560 jobs, protect and provide, period. Yeah. But when that class of men is shrinking because
01:35:35.760 testosterone is falling because of the kind of the war on masculinity that we've endured
01:35:40.340 for the last 40 years, when that resource isn't available, then women start to say, well, 0.94
01:35:46.200 I've got to put a roof over my own head. I've got to protect and provide for myself. And
01:35:50.300 there are a lot of them who would say, where is my protector and provider? I get it. I'm not
01:35:53.180 attacking women. I'm just at all. I feel so, I've got three daughters. I feel so sorry 0.97
01:35:57.260 for women. I do. And I, as a man, I always blame the man first. Always. A hundred percent. It's
01:36:04.020 your job. You're the man. Your wife's unhappy. Whose fault is that? Yours. The kids are out of
01:36:08.240 control. It is the job of a husband to keep your wife happy. A hundred percent. That's your job.
01:36:11.860 Yes. I agree. I literally couldn't agree more. And if she's a drunk or something, 0.94
01:36:15.840 it's not going to work. It's out of your control. But in a normal marriage with two sober people who
01:36:19.880 are kind of trying, it is up to you. By the way, her happiness is not contingent on yours.
01:36:24.660 Your happiness is contingent on hers. That's the great equalizer designed by God
01:36:29.780 to keep balance in a relationship. I don't know a single man who's truly happy whose wife hates
01:36:34.740 him. Of course. I don't know one. And the reason our system, our biology, is set up that way is
01:36:40.180 because men are physically dominant. So you could just beat up your wife and rape her and make her 1.00
01:36:45.100 do whatever you wanted. Sounds terrible. Exactly. It sounds terrible. Exactly. That's exactly the 1.00
01:36:51.160 point. It sounds terrible. Men don't want that. They want a woman to be sexually attracted to him,
01:36:55.640 to be happy, to have real orgasms. They want it to be genuine. And that's the equalizer. 0.98
01:37:01.080 You're totally focused on your wife's happiness. That keeps it equal. That gives her power. That's
01:37:06.240 where her power comes from. How do we fix it?
01:37:09.160 By letting people observe the laws of nature, which they ignore at their peril. You can't ignore the
01:37:16.740 laws of nature around you, or you get killed. Well, nature is sending us the message. When we see
01:37:22.200 the declining birth rate, when we see the societal impact, nature is sending us the message that this
01:37:27.280 isn't working. Yeah. And you're not allowed, you're like considered some sort of weird religious freak
01:37:30.960 when you're like, I don't know. Unnatural sex acts gives rise to disease. People are like, shut up. Shut up. 0.90
01:37:39.560 Well, they do. I mean, I don't know. I've been alive for 56 years. I've watched this. That's just a fact. 0.99
01:37:46.180 I'm not saying I want it to be that way. I'm not in charge of nature, actually. And I'm not in charge
01:37:49.940 of human nature above all. None of us is. Do you really know women who think if they get a big salary 1.00
01:37:57.480 in a house, some guy will want to marry them? Oh, yeah. There are many who will watch this
01:38:01.940 discussion and say, I am that. I am perfectly suited for marriage. I've done everything society
01:38:07.760 has asked of me. I got an advanced degree. I got a six-figure job. My LinkedIn is fire. I do five
01:38:14.680 spinning classes a week. I look good. And every man that I find either is on the dating apps, and they
01:38:22.220 have so much optionality that there's not really an incentive to anchor your life with 0.99
01:38:26.640 someone, or they're losers. And they can be losers who've inherited money and just have 0.97
01:38:33.280 no desire to build something beyond that. 0.95
01:38:36.760 I mean, I'm sorry to sound like a liberal. I do blame society. I blame what people are
01:38:41.000 taught and the lies that they get through propaganda for convincing them that something so obviously
01:38:48.900 absurd could be true. I mean, of course, men find that emasculating, unappealing. No man wants to
01:38:53.820 marry a woman with her own house and a higher income than him. No way. And she doesn't want to marry 0.99
01:38:57.260 him. You know, if you had marriage as this thing that gave people financial security, right? And people,
01:39:04.600 you know, 40s and 50s, people were getting married. And then you're bound to someone economically
01:39:09.500 and built a life together. You got married in your 20s and did your thing. And then when we did
01:39:16.260 no-fault divorce, then marriage really became a contract, like more than anything else. And just
01:39:21.660 like any other contract, when you're out of the contract, there are certain obligations that you
01:39:26.640 still have to fill financially and otherwise. And then, you know, the obvious next step is, well, if
01:39:33.160 marriage is a contract, like kind of so is dating in a weird way on like what you will provide and what
01:39:39.300 I'll provide. And if, you know, at the end of it, you know, there are women who say like, yeah,
01:39:44.540 if I'm going to spend my time to go on a date, I want you to pay for it. I think that's where we
01:39:50.540 are. And I don't mind, like when I hear women say that they go out and the guy wants to split the 0.87
01:39:55.560 check, to me, there's something chivalrous or interesting about that. I think that-
01:39:59.660 Well, it's awful.
01:40:00.800 Look, again, men and women need each other. They compliment each other.
01:40:04.000 Tame each other. Men are necessary to tame women and women must tame men. 1.00
01:40:10.760 A hundred percent. And without each other, they become just industrial components who can be
01:40:16.560 manipulated by global capital or whatever. Whatever force you're afraid of, the only real protection
01:40:22.220 is your family. And that includes the one, not just you were born into, but the one that you start
01:40:27.140 yourself. That's your bulwark. That's your fortress. And if people are making it impossible for you to
01:40:33.280 build that fortress, like I respect the whole man. It's not just like what you say you believe,
01:40:38.500 it's how do you live? If I had a camera in your house, do your kids respect you? Does your wife 0.99
01:40:42.400 respect you? If not, why would I respect you? I feel that.
01:40:46.320 Like, do you think that the notion of the barren life is what motivates people like Lindsey Graham
01:40:51.520 to go to try to create conflict?
01:40:52.640 A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Like a normal person goes home, you go home. I don't know if you
01:40:58.200 and I are normal, but just like a conventional person goes home and is like, I've got all kinds
01:41:02.300 of views, but like continuity matters to me because I've got descendants. If you have no
01:41:07.580 descendants, it like ends with you and you don't believe clearly these people, none of these people
01:41:10.420 believe in God. So it's like, I don't know. I got 15, 20 years, five, three years, whatever I have,
01:41:15.940 we don't know. And I, it doesn't matter what happens after that. Oh, that's scary. That's day trading
01:41:23.160 with the world, right? With your life. No, but with everyone else's life. You think,
01:41:27.720 why would Lindsey Graham carry 70 years old? He's not, he has no kids. Like, why does it matter
01:41:32.100 if there's a nuclear war? I mean, he's looking just at, he's not the back nine. It's like the
01:41:37.400 back three at this point. Like his options are like heart disease, cancer, and Alzheimer's. That's it.
01:41:41.400 There's no tomorrow. Sad. Don't you think? Uh, I do think, I mean, you know, having,
01:41:48.160 having children, uh, vests you in the future in a way that not having children just doesn't.
01:41:54.720 I mean, hasn't it changed your attitudes? Of course. Of course. And, and, uh, you know,
01:41:59.440 the way you care about what comes after you shifts dramatically. Well, it was like maybe 10 years ago,
01:42:06.300 some smart friend of mine sent me this list of European leaders. I'm interested in Europe. So,
01:42:10.960 uh, so I felt like I knew a lot. I didn't know that like none of them had kids.
01:42:14.240 And it's, I remember thinking that's not, first of all, you can't say anything about that because
01:42:18.340 you want to seem like you're attacking people without kids, which I'm not. I'm feeling sorry
01:42:21.500 for them. I'm attacking the idea of childless leadership. You can't have leaders with no
01:42:26.900 kids because they're not thinking longterm because why would they? And look what happened
01:42:32.740 to Europe and the Harris campaign and the Harris campaign. Yeah. Whatever. What's going to happen
01:42:39.660 to her? She's running again. You haven't seen the news. She's assembling her team and for 0.84
01:42:43.440 what? President. Yeah. Come on now. I, as we've said, it's an ambition that resurfaces often in one
01:42:51.200 life. So what, I mean, you know a lot more about this than I, but like, let's say you decide you're
01:42:55.360 going to run for president. How, how does your party exert influence on you to like stop? That's
01:43:02.960 such a bad idea. You would think some of the democratic party would be like, be able to say no.
01:43:06.640 Uh, I don't know. I, again, who's like, you assume the Obamas are in charge of that party. So
01:43:13.600 potentially they could move her to another path, but you know, they'll have a crowded field and 1.00
01:43:19.300 may be the case that having ancillary people around soaking up votes is good for the ultimate
01:43:23.960 objective. I can't imagine the Obamas in the Gavin Newsom world would mix well. Uh, that's not really
01:43:30.260 the same vein of the democratic party. Do you know anyone who's friends with her or knows her
01:43:33.760 well? Harris? Yeah. No, I don't think I do. Well, that's kind of strange considering, you know,
01:43:39.560 everybody. I know a lot of people, but I can't say that there was a single member of Congress I
01:43:45.700 ever interacted with that, that could talk about any, um, you know, private moment or, um, like
01:43:53.580 in-depth conversation they'd ever had with Kamala Harris. So there was really no constituency for
01:44:00.560 her. Like it wasn't, I mean, that was, yeah, I think that Democrats believed that there is this
01:44:06.440 vast part of the population whose dream candidate is some combination of Michelle Obama and Oprah.
01:44:13.180 And like the closest they could get was like bargain basement Kamala Harris to go and attempt to
01:44:17.920 achieve that archetype. And it just didn't, didn't work out. So it was all about race and gender.
01:44:21.960 I think that, uh, that, that was a huge part of it. And it, it, we saw the limits of playing into
01:44:30.500 those, uh, those impulses with Harris. Last question. Where do you think the country goes
01:44:37.840 in the next say three years? Like what are the big trend? No, what are the big trends? Um,
01:44:44.320 obviously, you know, we're going to see automation in the next three years at, in a level that you and
01:44:50.420 I have never seen in our lives. You really believe we'll see that in the next three years? I do. I,
01:44:54.560 I, I, I believe that automation in transportation, in agriculture, in manufacturing will be the new,
01:45:03.380 the new dominant force in our lives. And I don't think that's going to be entirely good. Uh, I think
01:45:08.420 that it's inevitable because the capabilities, when, when you think automation will be a dominant
01:45:15.500 force in our lives in three years. Yes. Yes. I think that, that like, I will tell my grandkids
01:45:21.080 what it was like to order food from a person. That will not be a, that will go the way of the,
01:45:26.300 the payphone. Uh, there are like 7 million American men who make their living driving
01:45:32.060 today in, in one form or another. Those jobs are gone in the next half decade.
01:45:36.780 Where do those people go? I, I think that's when you start to see these calls for universal basic
01:45:43.240 income, uh, because we will say that there's, there's such wealth being created on a lot of
01:45:49.160 these tech platforms that, that doesn't get shared broadly. And I, I worry that that, uh,
01:45:55.540 that draw politically is something that will zap the motivation of the country in a bad way.
01:46:01.380 Just look at this healthcare debate that's happening right now as a microcosm of, of, of this trend.
01:46:06.080 Uh, Republicans are trying to cobble together something that they think is a free market
01:46:11.400 approach to healthcare as if, as if anything in healthcare is a free market. And Democrats are
01:46:15.540 just saying, we're going to give you free stuff for longer. And, uh, I think that Republicans
01:46:21.460 in swing districts have seen that and said, we can't beat that. So we have to have our own version
01:46:25.640 of, we'll give you free stuff longer. And, uh, you may see these, uh, these Obamacare credits
01:46:32.100 extended via a discharge petition that does just that. And that brings the right in America 0.61
01:46:38.220 in line with where the right has moved in Europe, which is toward, uh, you know, economic liberalism,
01:46:44.620 which I'm not for.
01:46:46.060 I think you'll see what also has happened in Europe where the richest people, the Bill Ackmans,
01:46:50.900 the bottom feeders like Bill Ackman, nonproductive elements of the economy, who just like made billions
01:46:57.520 of dollars shorting stocks. Those people are totally fine. They offshore their money. They
01:47:02.860 find ways around tax compliance, but it's the level down. It's the 65 year old Florida retirees 0.99
01:47:10.280 who own some insurance company in Indiana.
01:47:13.660 They spent their whole life building it. They sold it for 5 million bucks.
01:47:17.820 Exactly. Exactly right.
01:47:19.060 Yeah.
01:47:19.300 They have like just enough money.
01:47:21.360 Exactly right. To live on a golf course outside Sarasota, love Ron DeSantis, love Trump.
01:47:26.380 And those people are going to see everything stolen from them.
01:47:30.080 And the method of theft will be the devaluation of their existing assets.
01:47:34.220 It will be the deep, that's it, especially real estate. I totally agree with that. And
01:47:38.080 I think in taxation.
01:47:42.200 Just like the, the, the, and I love Steve Bannon, so I don't want like my, our last discussion
01:47:47.400 to come across as a criticism of Steve, but I mean, he's going to run for president on the,
01:47:51.960 on just a straight Elizabeth Warren wealth tax economic agenda. 0.97
01:47:58.600 Actually?
01:47:59.220 Yeah. He's going to run for president and say, take the money from those people who have way
01:48:04.220 too much of it, the Bill Ackmans of the world. And I want to give it to you.
01:48:07.920 I wonder if that, has it ever, it always seems like those people flee the country. I mean,
01:48:14.520 Miami is filled, I know a lot.
01:48:16.680 The people who fled other countries for that purpose.
01:48:18.480 Exactly. That's exactly right.
01:48:19.880 Yeah.
01:48:19.980 And they live in splendor. Not attacking them, but like they didn't give up their money.
01:48:25.680 They just left. And then the middle class, upper middle, upper middle class, especially
01:48:29.940 just get hammered. And that is the core of your society, right?
01:48:33.200 Uh, it, it won't last that way. And, you know, Trump's elections have been, I think,
01:48:39.240 a reaction to that broader trend we've experienced for decades. And, uh, you know, what I, what
01:48:44.740 I hope doesn't happen is that it just becomes a policy race to the bottom to try to, you
01:48:50.280 know, throw insufficient solutions at that, you know, things like, well, we'll just give
01:48:54.800 them free houses. We'll just give them free healthcare. 0.99
01:48:57.300 The robots will just build the houses in national parks.
01:49:00.200 Right. Right. And that, wouldn't that be awful?
01:49:03.200 Matt Gaetz, thank you for spending all this time.
01:49:05.520 It's always good to see you, Matt.
01:49:06.380 And I'm just glad that you survived everything and you're thriving.
01:49:09.180 Likewise.
01:49:10.500 Are you running for president?
01:49:11.620 No, not of this country.
01:49:13.160 Okay.
01:49:14.760 Thank you.
01:49:15.780 Thank you.
01:49:20.840 Well, some Americans have become cut off from the things that once kept us grounded, our
01:49:24.840 land, the skills that tied our families to nature.
01:49:28.220 Told you he was getting his next spot.
01:49:29.800 Woo! 0.99
01:49:29.980 And to remind us, we made a new six-part series, American Game, Tales from the Wild.
01:49:34.720 We follow the sportsmen who are keeping these ancient traditions alive.
01:49:38.140 We follow a former Navy SEAL into the mountains of Texas.
01:49:41.020 Donald Trump Jr. across the ridges of Lanai.
01:49:43.760 That's what we call from going from zero to hero.
01:49:46.220 And wander with me through the quiet woods of Maine.
01:49:49.160 I have just three dog commands.
01:49:52.440 And then as I direct the dogs, find the bird.
01:49:55.400 Find the bird.
01:49:55.980 And then dead bird, obviously.
01:49:58.080 I don't use as much as I'd like to.
01:50:01.420 We cast for Steelhead on the Deschutes River in Oregon.
01:50:04.140 That's the first one I've caught in a while.
01:50:05.500 Track mule deer in the Utah high country.
01:50:08.020 Spearfish in the waters off Montauk, chasing striped bass and bluefin tuna.
01:50:11.800 See you on the other side.
01:50:12.800 It's called American Game, Tales from the Wild, an outdoor series.
01:50:16.060 Watch it at TuckerCarlson.com.