The Tucker Carlson Show - Mother of Likely Murdered OpenAI Whistleblower Reveals All, Calls for Investigation of Sam Altman

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00:00:30.000 Welcome to the Tucker Carlson Show.

00:00:42.500 We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else.

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00:00:55.200 Check out all of our content at tuckercarlson.com.

00:00:58.200 Here's the episode.

00:01:00.000 Thank you very much for joining us.

00:01:03.500 My son.

00:01:04.300 I owe this to him.

00:01:06.280 Well, this is a remarkable story.

00:01:08.500 So we were connected by someone we both know.

00:01:11.180 I had followed this casually in the media.

00:01:14.080 I didn't know what to make of it.

00:01:15.700 Your son died in November.

00:01:17.360 Remember, you commissioned an examination by a forensic pathologist, independent forensics pathologist called Dr. Dinesh Rao.

00:01:26.300 I have it right here, accompanied by photographs that you took.

00:01:29.700 And I don't think any honest person looking at this would conclude this was a suicide.

00:01:34.680 There's an awful lot of evidence that it wasn't.

00:01:38.600 And I was actually shocked by it.

00:01:41.020 So I want to get into the details of what may have happened.

00:01:44.660 But I'd like to start, if you don't mind, by hearing about your son.

00:01:48.580 Who was he?

00:01:49.720 How old was he?

00:01:50.520 What did he do?

00:01:51.420 What was he like?

00:01:52.600 Sure.

00:01:53.040 Suchir was a prodigy.

00:01:54.480 From birth, we knew he was gifted.

00:01:56.060 And for a living, he studied his master's, bachelor's in computer science from UC Berkeley, the top school.

00:02:03.940 He had 4.0 GPA throughout.

00:02:06.500 As soon as he graduated, he started working in OpenAI as a researcher, AI researcher.

00:02:12.840 His first project was WebGPT, for which a fresh graduate, he took the lead role.

00:02:18.840 And that WebGPT turned out into be CHAPGPT, an application.

00:02:23.100 Yes.

00:02:23.320 One, this was a publication of four people.

00:02:28.460 One of them is Suchir.

00:02:30.760 Following this, he worked at OpenAI for pre-training data.

00:02:34.700 That means he was scooping up all the internet data, feeding to CHAPGPT's AI model.

00:02:41.820 Following this, he worked on...

00:02:43.600 Which is the fuel that it runs on.

00:02:45.160 It needs massive amounts of data in order to become what it is, right?

00:02:49.260 That's the requirement.

00:02:50.160 Yes, it's an AI model.

00:02:52.520 And for the AI model, there need to be data fed.

00:02:55.480 And this data is what everybody is saying is copyright data.

00:02:59.000 That's what all the lawsuits are against.

00:03:01.180 Yes.

00:03:01.480 He was involved in fueling that data.

00:03:04.720 He was directly involved in that part of the business.

00:03:07.460 He was directly involved.

00:03:07.740 Yes.

00:03:08.220 He knows inside out.

00:03:09.820 Yes.

00:03:10.060 Following that, he worked directly on the CHAPGPT application team itself under John Shkulman.

00:03:16.540 In this team, he was vital.

00:03:18.540 His former boss, John, claims that his role was vital in CHAPGPT team.

00:03:23.420 And he did some kind of tuning and optimization, made it very efficient.

00:03:28.100 It's a significant contribution.

00:03:29.540 But the irony is, he was never acknowledged by OpenAI.

00:03:34.020 And even after he left OpenAI, after his death also, no one has acknowledged him.

00:03:38.820 Prior to joining OpenAI, he was so qualified.

00:03:43.660 He was national champion in 2016 for Computing Olympiad.

00:03:48.320 It means he was a top programmer of 2016.

00:03:51.920 Following that, he went, he took a gap year.

00:03:54.460 At 17, he said he doesn't need a degree.

00:03:57.160 Right after 12, he said, I don't need a degree.

00:03:59.300 I don't need to go to college.

00:04:00.300 He took up a job in Quora as software engineer.

00:04:04.000 He was hired with $25,000 sign-on bonus and a pay equivalent to a master's or a bachelor's holder.

00:04:11.480 He worked there for a year.

00:04:13.340 And then he joined UC Berkeley after taking a gap year.

00:04:17.180 It took a lot of effort on parents to persuade him to go back to college for which he was grateful throughout.

00:04:23.780 In UC Berkeley, he represented UC Berkeley for ACM-ICPC Inter-College Programming Contest, the World Contest.

00:04:33.340 He went to China along with his team.

00:04:36.080 It was in 2017.

00:04:38.720 2018, he won $100,000 award for a TSA competition.

00:04:44.420 This is for passenger screening algorithm which TSA has implemented today.

00:04:49.300 He was shining all throughout his life.

00:04:51.880 Prior to this, at the age of 11, he got 680 in SAT.

00:04:58.700 And then at 14, the paper he wrote makes me believe he's a prodigy.

00:05:03.660 That science paper is about quantum computing, optimizing a CPU.

00:05:10.600 And he talks about VLSI design that my friends claim they studied in their master's in electronics and communications.

00:05:18.160 All these things make me believe he's a prodigy and he's demonstrated he had exceptional abilities.

00:05:26.580 And it sounds like he did.

00:05:28.820 So it's, but, and it sounds like from reading about it that he ran into trouble only when he began to question whether or not the data that was being fed to OpenAI was copyrighted.

00:05:41.660 He never raised the voice when he was within OpenAI because he had concerns that management will not approve.

00:05:50.080 And he started to question all these when ChatGPT became profit making.

00:05:55.460 As long as it was non-profit, it was okay.

00:05:58.940 He explains in his publication on Suchi.net what his views are and why he believes this is copyright violation.

00:06:08.100 And when he started, after reinstatement of Sam Altman in 2023, November, November 21st was the day he got reinstated.

00:06:17.040 I know it so well because it was Suchi's birthday that day.

00:06:19.940 He got reinstated and after that, Suchi started thinking about the copyright violation and he did discuss with me, it's very unethical and he feels awful about it.

00:06:32.520 And I said, yes, it's unethical.

00:06:34.160 I agree with you.

00:06:36.820 What's unethical is using copyrighted material, material owned by other people for your business, which...

00:06:42.880 Yeah, artist's work will be lost.

00:06:45.020 Their means of living will be impacted.

00:06:47.200 Yes.

00:06:47.480 And also he did a research and he published like how the Stack Overflow and then a few other, like maybe Quora, a few other websites, their traffic is reducing.

00:06:59.460 And he also made a publication in which he explains that the answer given by ChatGPT versus the answer given by Stack Overflow, how unscientific and inaccurate the answer is.

00:07:12.120 Interesting.

00:07:13.180 Yeah.

00:07:13.520 When did he leave OpenAI?

00:07:15.520 He left in August.

00:07:17.480 Of 2024?

00:07:18.980 Yes.

00:07:19.880 Third week of August.

00:07:21.080 Third, so recently.

00:07:22.700 Very recently.

00:07:24.100 When did he write his now famous paper about what the management of OpenAI was doing with copyrighted material?

00:07:31.260 He, next day, he already had made up his mind prior leaving to, leaving OpenAI.

00:07:38.220 In fact, in July, he discussed with his UC Berkeley colleague that he want to do a startup and his friend express interest.

00:07:45.700 His name is Tyler Rzu.

00:07:47.200 So, next day after leaving OpenAI, he went on interview with Kennedy and News Media.

00:07:55.720 We didn't know anything about it.

00:07:58.040 Hmm.

00:07:58.200 Yeah.

00:07:59.120 We just found out, based on his call logs, he spoke to someone for 40 minutes after his passing.

00:08:05.620 We called him and found out he was doing this.

00:08:08.220 And it was next day after his last day at work.

00:08:11.200 Who did he speak to?

00:08:13.440 I'll get back to you.

00:08:14.740 But he spoke to a reporter.

00:08:16.080 Kennedy and News Media.

00:08:17.740 That sued OpenAI.

00:08:19.200 Canadian News Media.

00:08:20.000 Kennedy and News Media that sued OpenAI.

00:08:22.700 Interesting.

00:08:23.220 On October 23rd, his interview was published in New York Times, where he makes a very, very open statement.

00:08:32.040 And he calls OpenAI violates copyright data.

00:08:35.820 On October 23rd, he was quoted in the New York Times saying that OpenAI violates copyright law.

00:08:42.000 Yes.

00:08:42.280 He's stealing other people's material.

00:08:44.120 Yeah.

00:08:45.440 Okay.

00:08:46.140 And what day did he die?

00:08:49.020 I'm sorry?

00:08:50.100 And what day did he die?

00:08:51.560 22nd November, but we found a body on 26th November.

00:08:58.580 So he was quoted saying that OpenAI was committing crimes and a month later he was dead.

00:09:07.680 That's not just it.

00:09:09.600 On November 18th, New York Times named my son as custodian witness.

00:09:16.200 Custodian witness is very, very important.

00:09:18.480 He had the documents against OpenAI.

00:09:21.560 That was on 18th, 22nd.

00:09:24.520 He just came back from vacation from L.A. and Catalina Island the same night.

00:09:29.820 They have attacked him and killed him.

00:09:33.540 Tell us about what the New York Times wrote on November 18th.

00:09:37.820 He had these documents.

00:09:39.280 What were the documents?

00:09:40.220 We need to get the documents from New York Times.

00:09:43.000 It's a sealed document.

00:09:44.280 It's not open for public.

00:09:46.060 But we need to become like the estate administrator.

00:09:49.140 My husband will be the estate administrator end of this month.

00:09:52.340 Then we will go and acquire that data.

00:09:55.060 What documents they were.

00:09:56.300 At the moment, we don't have information.

00:09:57.980 But you know because you read it in the New York Times that your son had given journalists papers that he says implicated OpenAI in crime.

00:10:08.120 Yes.

00:10:09.380 And also on December 2nd, Suchir had an interview planned with Associated Press, Matt Oberyn.

00:10:17.300 On December 2nd, Suchir did not attend.

00:10:20.080 Third, they called on his phone.

00:10:22.280 By then we had his phone.

00:10:23.600 My husband took phone call.

00:10:24.940 And he found out that Suchir wanted to take legal action against OpenAI.

00:10:29.660 He wanted to give the witness.

00:10:31.780 By then, this news was not out yet that Suchir was a custodian witness.

00:10:36.780 But we got it.

00:10:38.100 Then all we did was hurrying up the second autopsy, private autopsy moment.

00:10:43.040 We heard that this was his initiative and he didn't make it to do that.

00:10:47.320 So, to bottom line it, it sounds like your son, who's your only child, by the way, and I'm really sorry about that.

00:10:57.180 Your son was in a position to threaten, really threaten OpenAI.

00:11:03.160 Well, it's not.

00:11:04.680 His intent was not to threaten.

00:11:06.540 He just cared about people.

00:11:08.140 He cared about humanity.

00:11:09.460 He writes in his article in New York Times as well as a publication.

00:11:12.620 He believes the way the AI is currently without any regulation is a harm to humanity.

00:11:18.780 He stood up for a cause and he lost his life for a cause.

00:11:21.920 He's a martyr.

00:11:23.660 Obviously, he's a martyr.

00:11:25.160 And then he never hesitated.

00:11:26.920 He put his life at risk.

00:11:30.080 So, the official cause of death is suicide.

00:11:34.920 You're his mother.

00:11:35.680 Clearly, you spoke to him a lot.

00:11:37.640 Did you get any indication that he was depressed?

00:11:39.900 No, he just came back from vacation.

00:11:42.840 He had a very active lifestyle.

00:11:45.040 When we had his memorial service, many of his friends came and they gave the details of when they met him and how many times they met him after he left.

00:11:54.660 He was visiting family.

00:11:56.620 We were going out for dinner, lunch.

00:11:58.800 He was fine.

00:11:59.460 And more than anything else, he had concrete career plans.

00:12:03.720 Yes.

00:12:04.420 And interviews scheduled and he had things on his to-do list.

00:12:07.800 Did he ever suggest to you, say to you, that he felt his life was threatened?

00:12:15.920 Was he worried?

00:12:17.460 He had concrete plans.

00:12:19.220 He wanted to do some work for humanity.

00:12:23.260 That's the last day when we spoke.

00:12:25.200 Last conversation with Suchir in person was that.

00:12:28.100 He had a non-profit in mind.

00:12:30.500 And he didn't want to take the salary for his work.

00:12:32.900 He said, Mom, I have enough resources.

00:12:34.620 I don't even need to get paid.

00:12:35.880 I want to serve humanity.

00:12:37.800 And he wanted to work in neuroscience and machine learning combination.

00:12:42.380 Using that, I think I've seen on his desktop one of the projects for Future of Doctor Visit.

00:12:47.740 Since we haven't unlocked his email and laptop yet, we have to discover that.

00:12:53.340 But we know.

00:12:54.020 He discussed with me.

00:12:55.380 It's a one-year plan.

00:12:56.940 He said, give me a one-year time.

00:12:58.960 You'll know everything.

00:12:59.760 Did he ever talk to you about Sam Altman?

00:13:05.180 Did you ever talk to your son about Sam Altman?

00:13:08.360 No.

00:13:08.680 We refused to.

00:13:10.300 You refused to?

00:13:11.080 We refused to talk to Sam Altman.

00:13:13.260 But did your son ever talk to you about Sam Altman?

00:13:16.460 Did he ever say anything about Sam Altman?

00:13:18.180 Not to me, but to his friends a lot.

00:13:20.900 When he was in Catalina Islands, he spoke a lot against him.

00:13:24.800 He literally didn't like him.

00:13:26.260 In fact, I've seen his chat log saying that he wanted to work with Annie Altman in her non-profit work.

00:13:34.780 And that would be Sam's sister who has accused him of sexual abuse.

00:13:38.360 Yes.

00:13:40.960 Really?

00:13:41.840 He wrote that down?

00:13:43.040 Yes.

00:13:43.360 So he knew what personality Sam Altman had.

00:13:48.080 And his main concerns were the lies.

00:13:52.400 The lies?

00:13:53.420 Lies that Sam Altman used. 0.56

00:13:54.940 The lies?

00:13:55.400 Yeah.

00:13:56.260 He was lying a lot.

00:13:58.200 And my son is very ethical and he couldn't stand it.

00:14:03.940 So the time, if we could go to the timeline around your son's death.

00:14:08.200 So he goes to Catalina Island with friends.

00:14:11.480 Yes.

00:14:12.060 To backpack?

00:14:12.920 To camp?

00:14:13.780 What was he doing?

00:14:14.180 Backpacking.

00:14:14.580 Yes.

00:14:14.840 November 16 to November 22.

00:14:17.160 There were five guys who went and my son was one of them.

00:14:20.360 All these are his middle school and high school classmates.

00:14:24.800 Some of them are his best buddies.

00:14:27.020 We spoke to every one of them when they came back and everyone gave an image like he is upbeat.

00:14:34.300 He was very happy.

00:14:35.560 He celebrated his 26th birthday on 21st November, the day before he died.

00:14:41.580 What mood do we need to give an account of his happy mood?

00:14:44.860 Well, exactly.

00:14:45.760 And if you, you know, at a certain age, you know people who've killed themselves.

00:14:48.680 And typically, you know, the suicide follows a morose period of isolation.

00:14:54.320 The person's sitting alone in his apartment drinking.

00:14:57.180 He died the night he came back from a camping trip with his high school and college friends.

00:15:03.280 Yeah.

00:15:03.780 Okay.

00:15:04.400 Our attorney, he came to his apartment with us.

00:15:07.460 And the moment he inspected his apartment, he said he had fresh supplies ordered.

00:15:12.460 He has so many packets unopened.

00:15:14.880 This doesn't look suicidal at all.

00:15:16.680 So, and the photographs that you took, which we'll get to in a minute, you know, I just want to say this is not the first time I've been contacted by a family saying, you know, our child ruled a suicide, but we think it was a murder.

00:15:31.940 I mean, many people have claimed that.

00:15:34.100 I've never seen anything like this before.

00:15:36.000 This is, I think, again, to any fair person suggests that he was murdered.

00:15:41.660 But let's get to that.

00:15:42.480 So, what do you know?

00:15:43.380 He came back from Catalina and, if you don't mind, telling us what you know about what happened then.

00:15:50.280 He comes back that evening to San Francisco?

00:15:53.160 He came around like 11 o'clock.

00:15:55.340 He texted me his flight is taking off.

00:15:57.340 That was in 22nd.

00:15:58.440 And then 4.54, he texted saying that it's pouring in San Francisco.

00:16:04.880 And when he got off Uber, leasing off his manager, he has apparently seen Suchir coming off with big suitcase and other things.

00:16:15.140 And then Suchir said, yes, I'm coming back from LA.

00:16:17.760 That's somewhere between 1 to 2 p.m. that day.

00:16:20.180 And then he spoke to dad at 7.15 p.m.

00:16:24.500 He was very happy.

00:16:26.200 And Balaji said, like, shall we go to CSI, CES in Las Vegas in January?

00:16:32.420 Because it was raining here, dad brought up the concept that, you know, weather will be great in January.

00:16:37.240 And Suchir said yes.

00:16:38.740 And dad gave him a birthday gift.

00:16:41.340 Gave him a birthday gift.

00:16:43.560 Birthday gift.

00:16:44.160 Because 21st was his birthday.

00:16:45.840 He said he'll send him, you know, cash.

00:16:48.300 Just a token of love.

00:16:50.460 And Suchir accepted it.

00:16:53.720 And that's the night he died?

00:16:56.120 The day he died.

00:16:58.880 So his last conversation with his father was what time, roughly?

00:17:02.560 That's the last conversation.

00:17:03.960 That was the last conversation.

00:17:04.940 I called the next day, 12.15 p.m.

00:17:08.140 Phone rang once.

00:17:10.220 And it went to voicemail.

00:17:16.220 When did you learn that your son was dead?

00:17:19.300 That was on 26.

00:17:20.760 25th, I went to his apartment.

00:17:22.740 Knocked on the door.

00:17:23.640 No one opened.

00:17:24.480 I called the dispatch.

00:17:27.220 Unfortunately, it took a day of effort for us to get his apartment open.

00:17:32.960 25th, they went and they didn't even call me back.

00:17:35.520 What happened?

00:17:36.300 Apparently, they have gone and knocked on the door.

00:17:38.500 They didn't bother to open the door.

00:17:40.660 They just said, okay, nobody's opening the door.

00:17:42.440 And they went back.

00:17:43.980 Security guard from the apartment complex says he saw the fire truck and the ambulance and the police.

00:17:49.880 And they went back.

00:17:51.040 5.30, I waited, waited and waited.

00:17:53.640 And 5.30 p.m. when I called on Monday 25th, they said, ma'am, unless you are here, we cannot open the door.

00:17:59.820 Next morning, unions, I went to Union City Police Station, that's where we live, and filed a missing person complaint.

00:18:09.880 I waited for one, one and a half hours, but both the parents, me and Matt, when we started calling all the hospitals in San Francisco area to see if he may have had an accident, why he's not responding to us, what happened to him.

00:18:22.440 The moment we found that he was not in any of the hospitals, we took a deep breath, okay, he's safe.

00:18:29.420 But when we went to his apartment, 1 o'clock, I went to San Francisco, and the dispatch came at 1.09.

00:18:35.440 Until 4 o'clock, we were not told anything.

00:18:42.800 And then you got a call from the city?

00:18:46.380 No, that was not how it went.

00:18:48.060 1.09, two people, two officers came, and they went with the leasing office manager, leasing manager, and I'm waiting outside.

00:18:55.760 They didn't allow me inside the premises.

00:18:57.920 I'm waiting outside the complex.

00:19:01.160 Then 1.13, they have seen, apparently, that's what the report says.

00:19:05.860 They've seen the body.

00:19:07.400 Within 5, 10 minutes, they came out.

00:19:10.120 And they told me, no, we didn't enter.

00:19:12.120 We're waiting for two more officers.

00:19:14.100 We have a security protocol.

00:19:15.600 We cannot go inside.

00:19:17.460 Around 2 o'clock, two more officers came.

00:19:19.980 But they knew your son was dead, and they lied to you?

00:19:21.960 They didn't tell at that moment.

00:19:25.240 2 o'clock, they have a protocol.

00:19:27.080 I don't blame them.

00:19:28.040 2 o'clock, two officers came.

00:19:30.680 They went inside.

00:19:31.900 20 minutes, they came back and said,

00:19:33.580 we're waiting for two more officers.

00:19:36.020 We have security protocol.

00:19:37.200 We can't go inside.

00:19:38.560 And they said, at 2 o'clock, they said, ma'am, you can go back home.

00:19:41.400 We'll inform you in five to six hours.

00:19:43.800 I said, I'm not going anywhere.

00:19:46.340 They told me it's going to take some time for the next two officers to come.

00:19:49.780 I said, let it be.

00:19:51.300 Please give me the phone number.

00:19:52.920 I'll contact them and find out if there's any way we can expedite it.

00:19:56.640 My son's safety is in question.

00:19:58.260 I cannot wait any longer.

00:20:00.780 And then at 3.20, I saw a big white van coming, and my heart sank.

00:20:07.080 So they knew as they were speaking to you that your son was dead, but didn't tell you?

00:20:10.600 They didn't tell. 0.98

00:20:11.660 That's disgusting. 0.97

00:20:13.820 That's inhuman. 0.78

00:20:14.960 Sorry.

00:20:15.760 It is.

00:20:16.300 It is.

00:20:16.760 And you know, they're asking me to go home.

00:20:21.060 And how I knew my son was dead is looking at the white van.

00:20:25.920 At that moment, I knew ambulance didn't come.

00:20:29.040 And instead of, even then, I was optimistic.

00:20:31.800 Okay, maybe ambulance wasn't available.

00:20:33.620 They sent another van.

00:20:35.040 And when I just saw a stretcher that came out,

00:20:37.240 I went and spoke to the officers who are the medical examiners.

00:20:40.660 They said, we have a dead person in the apartment.

00:20:44.020 That's how I came to know.

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00:24:44.220 I'm so sorry.

00:24:51.280 That is really, I mean, that is, I didn't know things like that happened.

00:24:55.380 That is awful.

00:24:56.480 It's a gated community.

00:24:58.760 He had a gun with him to protect himself.

00:25:02.340 What more can be expected in America than this?

00:25:05.640 It's a very reputed apartment complex.

00:25:07.820 Not that it's cheap or something.

00:25:09.240 They have four or five units.

00:25:11.120 Four or five buildings, I mean to say.

00:25:12.700 Did the officers at the scene give you any indication of how they thought your son died?

00:25:19.020 At four o'clock, they came to the leasing office and the medical examiner said he shot himself.

00:25:28.540 He killed himself.

00:25:29.400 It's a suicide.

00:25:30.620 At that moment, I raised to them, look, my son went into New York Times.

00:25:34.520 He's a whistleblower.

00:25:36.160 And his death doesn't look suicide to me.

00:25:39.000 They just didn't want to listen.

00:25:40.420 He bought a gun.

00:25:41.620 It belongs to him.

00:25:43.540 Nobody went into the complex.

00:25:45.140 Nobody came out.

00:25:46.000 He was all by himself. 0.92

00:25:49.080 And he's a suicide.

00:25:50.460 And how long it took, can you believe it?

00:25:52.580 Forty minutes to investigate.

00:25:55.500 Forty minutes to determine the date, cause of death.

00:25:59.400 And at four o'clock, they gave me the keys for the apartment.

00:26:02.340 And they say, you can collect the body tomorrow.

00:26:05.860 Like, right from that moment, I see foul play.

00:26:09.660 Proper formalities were not followed.

00:26:11.640 And the next day, they released the body within 24 hours without doing the complete autopsy.

00:26:17.900 They removed the bullet.

00:26:19.540 They did a CT scan.

00:26:20.800 Just returned the body to us.

00:26:22.880 Then we just checked with the funeral home and we discussed with them.

00:26:27.320 And then they also said, looks like, doesn't seem normal.

00:26:30.240 There's something very unusual here.

00:26:32.400 You should do a second private autopsy.

00:26:35.080 The funeral home suggested that.

00:26:37.440 Yes.

00:26:38.360 And even we were thinking.

00:26:40.600 Both of us were also thinking.

00:26:42.040 Funeral home also suggested.

00:26:43.420 We were shattered, obviously, right?

00:26:45.640 We were completely shattered.

00:26:47.240 We just didn't know what's going on.

00:26:49.560 And seeing our son like that, and they said, like, his eyes are gone with the gun wound.

00:26:54.860 Don't see his face.

00:26:55.900 We couldn't see him.

00:26:59.540 But the fact that the funeral home, which, of course, sees dead bodies every day, said to you, this doesn't look right, doesn't look like a suicide, we recommend that you get a second autopsy, a real autopsy.

00:27:12.780 That's amazing.

00:27:13.380 Actually, the way they didn't look at the body, they didn't look at any evidence, but the way the information was given to us and the way the procedures and policies need to be followed and norms were not followed according to them.

00:27:27.440 Before they received the body itself, they said, this doesn't look normal.

00:27:31.700 And we addressed the concern that it could be some foul play here.

00:27:36.000 And we knew from the very moment we heard the news, we know it's not suicide.

00:27:39.920 Next day, in the death news, and I'm shattered, but it's calling police, calling medical examiner, Corona's office, homicide unit.

00:27:49.780 We've done everything we can.

00:27:52.180 So tell me what you know about what's been proven from the CCTV, from the surveillance footage about your son's last moments.

00:28:03.700 Is there any evidence anyone came in or out of the apartment?

00:28:06.620 No.

00:28:06.860 Actually, even when our attorney concluded it's a suicide, even at that moment, I mentioned to the attorney, look, there are three entrances to this building.

00:28:16.880 One of them is gated, it has CCTV.

00:28:19.220 Other two entrances don't have CCTV.

00:28:21.940 And why are we ignoring that nobody came in, nobody went out?

00:28:25.940 And also what we just recently discovered is his packages are missing.

00:28:29.860 His roommate or no, his, you know, neighbor in the apartment complex, he mentioned that in the, they have a shared package room.

00:28:39.040 They have a shared bin or basket or something.

00:28:42.120 He'd seen Suchi's package until December 31st.

00:28:45.580 He reached out to me through Twitter on X platform.

00:28:48.760 When I tweeted, he found out I'm Suchi's mom.

00:28:50.940 And he said, have you picked up Suchi's packages?

00:28:53.660 I don't see that after January 1st.

00:28:56.120 Those packages are missing.

00:28:57.820 When we talked to that neighbor, he said, like, it's very common that packages get lost.

00:29:03.960 In September, they received a notification that if you see so-and-so man, then let us know.

00:29:08.880 And that tells us a lot about the security and, you know, like, there's a compromise of key, there's a compromise of entrance.

00:29:17.680 All of these need to be investigated, obviously, when there is a murder.

00:29:21.040 So, let's get to the reason that I am anxious to do this interview, which is this report that you commissioned, Dr. Dinesh Rao, and it contains his analysis of the condition of your son's body based on an autopsy, I believe.

00:29:42.380 And it critically contains seven crime scene photographs that you took in your son's apartment.

00:29:47.900 Is that correct?

00:29:48.540 That's right.

00:29:48.940 There are seven evidences that were very critical, which has not been picked up by the authorities.

00:29:54.800 Within 40 minutes, they concluded.

00:29:56.660 They haven't even picked up critical things like a bag with blood that has my son's saliva in it.

00:30:02.480 They haven't picked that up.

00:30:03.960 And how could they miss haze falling all over from the wig?

00:30:08.780 Right.

00:30:09.340 So, that's what I want to get to.

00:30:10.680 So, the two things that jump out to me, the first thing that jumps out, and it's very obvious from the photographs that you took,

00:30:17.680 is that there's blood all over the apartment.

00:30:19.940 So, the official explanation is that your son shot him.

00:30:22.400 And I'm sorry to, I know this is hard.

00:30:24.220 But I think it's important to go through this.

00:30:27.880 The official explanation is your son shot himself once in the head, and the bullet entered the brainstem and extinguished life immediately.

00:30:34.120 Can I say something there?

00:30:35.220 Yes.

00:30:36.180 It didn't touch his brainstem at all.

00:30:38.540 Oh.

00:30:39.240 It didn't even touch his brain.

00:30:40.820 And the angle is downwards.

00:30:42.800 Yes.

00:30:43.700 Well, I'm saying the official explanation is he shot himself once in the head, he died.

00:30:46.760 Yes.

00:30:47.800 But these photographs show that that's not at all what happened because there's blood all over the apartment.

00:30:53.360 There's blood on the door, on the floor, in the bathroom.

00:30:56.280 There's blood everywhere.

00:30:57.320 So, that right there, just employing common sense, tells you that the person from whom that blood came, your son, presumably, did not have a fatal brain injury, at least when he was bleeding.

00:31:14.200 I mean, this is, something was going on in the apartment, right?

00:31:16.800 The second thing that jumps out is that there is a tuft of hair that's not hair.

00:31:24.540 It's from a wig.

00:31:25.380 It's from a wig.

00:31:26.240 And there's a clip scene.

00:31:28.100 It's, okay, so tell us what that is for people who don't know.

00:31:30.500 It's part of a clip-in wig.

00:31:32.200 Like, there's some kind of plastic band or something that fits the wig on the head.

00:31:37.060 We can see that coming out behind the door.

00:31:40.600 And that's obvious evidence that no crime scene investigators or police can miss.

00:31:45.840 They just ignored everything that showed murder, and they picked up everything that showed a cover-up suicide.

00:31:52.440 But how could they ignore?

00:31:53.400 So, your son did not, I mean, he was a 26-year-old man with short hair from pictures.

00:31:58.320 He's not wearing a wig, correct?

00:31:59.700 No, no, no, he is not.

00:32:00.880 And these hairs are not his.

00:32:02.800 This investigator's analysis looked at the hair from the autopsy pictures, that my son's hair, and this hair, this is not his hair.

00:32:10.240 And the portion of the wig, the clip-in wig, has blood on it.

00:32:14.020 Yes.

00:32:14.340 Okay, so as a, you know, non-forensic investigator myself, I look at that, and I'm saying, that's a, that's a, well, where did this come from?

00:32:22.960 And there's blood all over the apartment.

00:32:25.940 Right there, I would say this is, you know, maybe it's a suicide, but you're going to have to tell me how?

00:32:31.620 Because that, you know, what is that?

00:32:33.540 It's not a suicide.

00:32:35.040 It's a homicide, obviously.

00:32:37.200 We have enough reasons to believe that.

00:32:39.060 One is coming from the private autopsy.

00:32:40.880 It's not a suicidal angle at all.

00:32:44.660 So you said that, and let me let you explain.

00:32:46.860 It's not a suicidal angle.

00:32:48.380 So you had the, the, the, the crime scene.

00:32:52.260 Your son's body was taken away.

00:32:53.960 It was evaluated in some way by the authorities.

00:32:56.300 They say this is a suicide.

00:32:57.440 You have an, like a real autopsy done by Professor Rao.

00:33:01.560 And he says, what about the bullet angle?

00:33:04.460 Will you explain that?

00:33:05.900 The autopsy was done by Dr. Joseph Cohen.

00:33:08.840 Okay.

00:33:09.180 And he says two things.

00:33:11.560 One of them is the bullet angle is going downward, about 30 to 45 degrees downward.

00:33:17.180 It's been shot here.

00:33:18.380 It's missed the brain.

00:33:19.720 Second thing is, there's a head injury on the left side of the head.

00:33:23.340 In fact, I spoke to medical examiner's office, executive director.

00:33:27.100 I told him there's a head injury, the sign of struggle in the bathroom.

00:33:32.400 He just declared that I'm the decision-making authority of state of California.

00:33:37.840 I decide the cause of death.

00:33:40.080 And when I brought up, we'll have federal investigation.

00:33:43.100 There was a momentary setback in his voice on the phone, but still they're holding on to suicide.

00:33:47.980 So, Dr. Cohen's autopsy, and this is grisly, I'm sorry, but shows, demonstrates, proves that the bullet was fired at what angle?

00:33:58.620 Yeah, it's downward angle.

00:34:00.020 That someone cannot shoot themselves.

00:34:02.080 Right.

00:34:02.380 So, in other words, if this were a suicide, your son would have had to have held the gun to his forehead coming down.

00:34:08.680 From the top.

00:34:08.860 He was made to sit.

00:34:11.480 If you look at the same thing, like the victim was sitting down.

00:34:15.460 He was made to sit.

00:34:16.560 Someone standing, he shot him down.

00:34:18.380 In fact, like, Balaji and I, my husband and I, are going to create a virtual reality.

00:34:22.980 Once we get all the evidence, we'll create a virtual reality video and present it to court what exactly happened to him at that moment.

00:34:31.260 You also said, if I heard you correctly, that he had another head injury, not caused by a bullet.

00:34:36.180 Yes.

00:34:37.420 Can you tell us about that?

00:34:38.400 Actually, it appeared to us that from his fallen toothpick and blood in the sink and all that, it appeared around 10-ish.

00:34:48.420 Because 10-10 is his last browser history on the desktop.

00:34:52.060 He was brushing his teeth before going to bed.

00:34:54.540 He was attacked from behind on the head.

00:34:58.020 That's where this fallen dustbin, this fallen toothpick.

00:35:01.500 And his earbud has fallen in two different directions because of the head impact.

00:35:05.800 And we believe after that, he was either electrocuted or he was, you know, like he was paralyzed from the head injury.

00:35:14.440 And then he just, they just held him up, made him sit and shot him.

00:35:18.260 But also, we know that, that we're waiting for further report, but that may not be the cause of death.

00:35:27.420 The gunshot wound is not the cause of death.

00:35:30.260 And probably they might have suffocated him.

00:35:33.960 We don't have any details of that cruelty.

00:35:36.140 But we're waiting for further reports from CT scan.

00:35:39.580 Why do you believe the gunshot was not the cause of death?

00:35:42.680 Because it's not touched the brain.

00:35:44.400 It only causes, makes him unconscious.

00:35:47.080 So, the autopsy showed that the bullet did not touch his brain.

00:35:52.780 Yes.

00:35:53.100 And also, since I called an apartment on 23rd at 12.15 p.m., it rang once and it went to voicemail.

00:36:02.160 That makes me believe the killers were still there in the apartment.

00:36:09.060 Again, we need to verify all that.

00:36:10.700 We can do something called geo-fencing.

00:36:12.880 Through that, we can figure out who was there, who was visiting the complex, and all that information.

00:36:17.840 That's exactly why we need thorough investigation.

00:36:21.860 You certainly do.

00:36:23.940 You said your son's last browser record is from 10 p.m.-ish?

00:36:30.120 10, 10 p.m.

00:36:31.240 And what was he looking at? Do you know?

00:36:35.960 I think he was looking at a black cat or something.

00:36:39.020 Because last time in Sushirand, I met, a cat was going in front of me.

00:36:44.440 And then I told him it's a superstition.

00:36:46.240 And then he was looking at neuroscience topics.

00:36:51.780 And he logged into a website for the startup or something like that.

00:36:56.160 He logged into a website.

00:36:58.020 And he was doing some research.

00:37:01.780 So, he wasn't looking up, how do I kill myself?

00:37:04.480 No, that's the first thing that we look for, actually.

00:37:07.900 Of course.

00:37:08.780 Of course.

00:37:10.040 Of course. 0.99

00:37:10.640 I mean, killing yourself is a profound decision. 0.97

00:37:13.940 People, there are signs.

00:37:16.040 And can I say something?

00:37:17.320 It doesn't add up.

00:37:18.380 If he's so brave to go to news media, to be a witness, he's so courageous.

00:37:24.580 How does someone so courageous do a cowardly act?

00:37:28.740 It doesn't add up at all.

00:37:29.960 What doesn't add up is there's blood all over the apartment.

00:37:33.860 And there's a piece of a wig on the ground covered in blood.

00:37:38.260 That's not his wig.

00:37:39.160 And, you know, you don't need to be a detective to imagine that if someone's going to commit a murder, he might be wearing a wig as he goes into the apartment.

00:37:48.340 So, that right there, considering your son didn't wear a wig as a 26-year-old male.

00:37:54.580 So, you know...

00:37:56.820 Hairs were not his.

00:37:57.560 That's also another thing.

00:37:58.780 What weren't his?

00:37:59.520 Those hairs were not his hair.

00:38:01.440 We have the picture of his hairs.

00:38:03.800 His hair is fallen down in the bathroom sink.

00:38:06.160 That is different from the hair in the wig.

00:38:10.760 His original hair have been found on the floor.

00:38:15.160 They might have strangled him by his hair or something.

00:38:18.380 His hair has fallen down.

00:38:20.360 That hair versus the wig hair are different.

00:38:26.060 Did anybody hear anything in the apartment?

00:38:28.980 Did anyone hear the gunshot?

00:38:30.440 No.

00:38:30.880 No one heard anything?

00:38:31.860 No one heard anything.

00:38:32.720 And two entrances into the complex have no surveillance cameras?

00:38:38.500 Yes.

00:38:41.200 Wow.

00:38:42.660 It makes the hair on your arms go up.

00:38:44.740 Yeah, it's a lot.

00:38:46.620 Yeah.

00:38:47.040 Again, I've been involved in many stories like this, more than five, and I've never seen one like this.

00:38:53.140 It's brutal.

00:38:54.260 It's unbelievable.

00:38:55.620 So, what's unbelievable is it's so obviously not a clean-cut story.

00:39:00.840 I mean, you wouldn't walk into an apartment with blood splattered everywhere and see a man on the floor with a gun in his hand and say, oh, it was a suicide.

00:39:08.360 Well, how did the blood get in the bathroom?

00:39:09.580 He shot himself in the head.

00:39:10.580 Like, that doesn't even make sense.

00:39:12.140 It was a cover-up, right?

00:39:13.560 So, they picked up what they want to pick up.

00:39:15.580 We don't know if they have been instructed to do this beforehand.

00:39:19.340 So, okay.

00:39:20.840 Thank you for describing all of that, and I'm sorry.

00:39:23.360 I know it's awful.

00:39:24.820 Yeah.

00:39:25.040 But, tell me how the authorities responded, if you don't mind.

00:39:31.180 Authorities have been very indifferent.

00:39:34.120 In fact, we hired an attorney, a senior attorney.

00:39:36.680 He wrote to chief of police, city administrator, chief medical examiner, executive director of medical examiner.

00:39:44.400 He wrote very clearly a couple of points.

00:39:48.240 One of them is he was not suicidal.

00:39:50.100 Before making a decision of suicide, they need to take his mental state into account.

00:39:54.540 Yes.

00:39:55.100 He has happy pictures.

00:39:56.600 They shared the pictures.

00:39:57.860 He just came back and he said, talk to four of his friends who accompanied him.

00:40:02.460 And he also said the autopsy information in that letter.

00:40:05.700 The autopsy report says that this is the angle of gunshot.

00:40:08.680 It doesn't look suicide at all.

00:40:10.580 A doctor described this as atypical, abnormal, worrisome angle.

00:40:16.040 We wrote all of this to them.

00:40:17.680 We just had them to reconsider it and do the investigation.

00:40:23.400 Chief of police apparently has agreed to do investigation, but medical examiner stopped it.

00:40:29.160 He said, no, this is suicide.

00:40:30.440 And the attorney came back and said, what they said was, oh, yeah, the angle looks different.

00:40:35.140 So what?

00:40:35.620 It's a suicide.

00:40:36.240 A man shooting himself in the forehead from a downward angle.

00:40:41.660 Yeah.

00:40:41.860 Okay.

00:40:43.780 I'm not even sure if that's possible, but.

00:40:46.780 We are going to demonstrate that.

00:40:48.240 We just ordered a dummy gun.

00:40:49.900 We're going to create a dummy of his size and we're going to demonstrate using the VR or in the video.

00:40:55.340 We're going to demonstrate to people it's not possible.

00:40:57.880 Who is the medical examiner who refuses to reconsider a pretty obviously silly explanation for this?

00:41:04.980 His name is David Hellman.

00:41:08.500 David Hellman is the San Francisco medical examiner.

00:41:11.280 But he has been covered by David Sewell, who's the executive director.

00:41:15.460 Every time we call, it's him.

00:41:17.700 And even the news report is given by David Sewell.

00:41:21.200 There's no foul play.

00:41:22.400 And who is David Sewell?

00:41:24.040 He's the executive director of medical examiner's office.

00:41:26.780 He is the one who's holding on to suicide despite of seeing all the evidences.

00:41:32.540 He wants to declare it.

00:41:34.120 Only suicide, nothing else.

00:41:37.240 What does he make of the bloody wig and the blood splattered in the bathroom when your son was not found in the bathroom?

00:41:43.140 Like, how does he explain that?

00:41:44.180 He didn't want to listen to it.

00:41:47.180 He didn't want to pay attention to any of the things that we were saying.

00:41:50.080 And you know, the worst struggle here is the first attorney, he was reluctant to help us.

00:41:54.980 When he said suicide, when medical examiner's office said suicide, he didn't want to fight because they have been threatened.

00:42:01.740 And obviously, then we hired a second attorney.

00:42:04.920 He got a crime scene investigator.

00:42:08.140 And our attorney said, we'll give you explanation of every blood mark.

00:42:14.680 And he came back this Monday and he gave explanation.

00:42:19.580 And none of that explanation he gave corroborates to what happened in the apartment based on what we see.

00:42:24.700 That means even the crime scene investigator was bought.

00:42:28.660 He gave inaccurate results.

00:42:31.100 If both the attorneys are like this, then where do we go?

00:42:34.480 We definitely need some serious help here from the authorities.

00:42:39.140 Okay, so the authorities would begin with the mayor of San Francisco.

00:42:43.080 Mayor of San Francisco.

00:42:46.040 Actually, Sam Altman is on the transition committee for the new governor.

00:42:50.220 He's the new mayor.

00:42:52.560 The new mayor.

00:42:53.180 Sam Altman's a friend of the new mayor.

00:42:54.480 Yes.

00:42:55.200 Okay, so let's move up. 0.78

00:42:56.920 Then you go to the governor of California, Kevin Newsom.

00:43:00.060 We're trying to.

00:43:01.100 We are first trying to meet the district attorney of San Francisco, DA of San Francisco.

00:43:05.640 We probably are going to get an appointment sometime next week or later this week.

00:43:09.940 It's mid-January.

00:43:11.060 Your son was killed in November.

00:43:13.300 We have not been getting any appointment.

00:43:15.480 We wrote to everyone.

00:43:16.360 When we wrote to Rob Bonta, we wrote to DA.

00:43:18.960 Like, we didn't get any appointment from any of them.

00:43:23.920 Five weeks were wasted by our first attorney.

00:43:26.640 He does nothing.

00:43:27.980 He just keep prolonging, prolonging, prolonging.

00:43:30.640 He wasted five weeks.

00:43:32.080 Then we hired a second attorney.

00:43:33.500 It's been almost two weeks since we hired.

00:43:36.800 But now, like, we just didn't trust any of these people.

00:43:39.600 We got a report from someone else.

00:43:41.820 And now we're coming to media because these people, like, neither the authorities nor the attorneys are helping us.

00:43:48.440 This needs to go to the Department of Justice, I think, in the Trump administration.

00:43:52.340 I did write.

00:43:53.520 You did?

00:43:54.180 Yeah.

00:43:55.000 We haven't heard yet because it's only been a few days.

00:43:57.800 We did write to them.

00:43:58.700 In general, possessions are overrated, but there are some things you really would not want stolen.

00:44:06.140 And to me, family shotguns, including a whole bunch of them I got from my father, are at the top of that list.

00:44:12.960 So I keep my dad's shotguns in a Liberty Safe because it's safe and it's also really attractive.

00:44:20.540 Liberty Safe just created something really cool.

00:44:22.100 It's a limited edition safe that commemorates the inauguration of Donald Trump, America's 47th president.

00:44:28.260 The original design celebrates Trump and his swearing-in while upholding Liberty's commitment to building their safes right here in the United States.

00:44:35.660 And they went all out on this one.

00:44:37.360 It's the special 47 edition.

00:44:39.700 It features a one-of-a-kind artwork that pays homage to the president.

00:44:43.720 It's very, very cool.

00:44:45.640 Not all safes are created equal.

00:44:46.900 There are plenty out there.

00:44:47.760 And a lot of the manufacturers slap an American-sounding name on the label, but they are not made here.

00:44:53.960 They're from China or other foreign markets.

00:44:55.760 Liberty Safes are made in the United States.

00:44:59.140 For over 30 years, Liberty has made its safes right here, and that matters because when you buy a Liberty Safe, you're supporting American workers and American values.

00:45:07.620 Their products are more than just a place to protect your dad's shotguns, for example.

00:45:11.380 They are a symbol of this country.

00:45:12.740 So celebrate this historic moment.

00:45:15.240 Secure the things that you want to keep forever in a Liberty Safe.

00:45:20.020 Visit LibertySafe.com or find a Liberty dealer or retailer near you to order your limited edition safe today.

00:45:26.840 Liberty Safe, made in America.

00:45:28.100 Has anybody in a position of authority in the state of California said to you, boy, this needs more investigation?

00:45:50.100 It doesn't look right.

00:45:51.440 Everybody is suppressed.

00:45:53.500 No one has come in our favor.

00:45:55.420 In fact, even our attorneys, whom we hired, have been made to tell it's a suicide to us.

00:46:00.240 Every day, from every different angle, there is a push for us that it's a suicide.

00:46:05.700 But we parents, we know and we want to fight for justice for our beloved son.

00:46:09.940 But I don't understand on what basis.

00:46:12.160 So your son had just come back that day from hanging out with his buddies, okay?

00:46:17.320 So which is like a happy thing.

00:46:19.920 No evidence that he was suicidal whatsoever and tons of forensic evidence that he was murdered.

00:46:25.900 So on what grounds are they saying it's very likely he killed himself?

00:46:29.300 Okay, that's because of the cover-up.

00:46:30.840 Remember, like there was a gun near him.

00:46:32.700 He owned a gun and they put a shell casing and four bullets near it.

00:46:37.180 They made it look like it.

00:46:38.520 So there are both the evidences, right, for the medical examiner to pick up.

00:46:42.340 He picked up the one that looks suicidal.

00:46:44.980 He ignored the one that looks like homicide.

00:46:47.800 That's what it is.

00:46:50.760 So now to Sam Altman.

00:46:53.540 What contact with Sam Altman have you had since your son died?

00:46:58.520 We contacted HR for 401k plan details.

00:47:02.520 Until then, no one from OpenAI ever contacted us.

00:47:06.160 They gave the PR report that they're supporting the family.

00:47:09.240 How?

00:47:09.860 Suchir had obviously put parents in his emergency contact, right?

00:47:13.920 They got the death news on December 13th.

00:47:16.240 They made no attempt to contact us.

00:47:18.400 And when we reached out to HR, Sam Altman said he wants to talk to us.

00:47:23.160 By then, we already knew Suchir was, you know, his presence or his living would have been a threat to AI industry in general. 0.89

00:47:30.700 I wouldn't want to name one company.

00:47:32.740 But eventually, it's going to expose everything, right?

00:47:35.500 So we didn't want to talk to Sam Altman.

00:47:37.700 And then they said, we provide employee assistance program.

00:47:41.320 Though he was a former employee.

00:47:43.240 We said, we have medical insurance.

00:47:44.720 We don't need it.

00:47:45.680 Then they pushed us saying, we want to get you on a Zoom call ASAP to go over his stock options.

00:47:52.840 Then our response to that is, why are you in a hurry?

00:47:56.360 We are not.

00:47:57.320 We've lost our son.

00:47:58.340 We're grieving.

00:47:58.960 Money is not important to us.

00:48:00.700 Please talk to a probate attorney.

00:48:02.180 And we had a probate attorney talk to the HR.

00:48:05.960 They wanted to talk about his stock options?

00:48:08.960 Yeah.

00:48:09.260 That's why they wanted to get us on a Zoom call.

00:48:14.060 Do you think, do you believe, you can't know, I guess, but do you think that Sam Altman was involved in your son's death?

00:48:21.340 We don't know.

00:48:22.420 We need to investigate it.

00:48:23.960 We can't, you know, we can't say anything at this time.

00:48:27.280 But one thing I know for sure is if he was deposed, there are a few organizations who could have been impacted for that matter.

00:48:37.540 Like there are a lot of AI companies which violate copyright law.

00:48:40.360 And we don't know what OpenAI wanted to hide when my son deposed.

00:48:47.260 What was the wrongdoing that he would have brought up?

00:48:49.820 Not just the copyright law.

00:48:51.320 That's exactly we need FBI to investigate thoroughly.

00:48:54.960 Was there any criminal activity?

00:48:58.980 Was there any illegal activity?

00:49:00.880 We don't know, right?

00:49:01.820 Why?

00:49:02.340 Why would they silence him?

00:49:03.560 What would he have spoken?

00:49:04.860 If it's just the copyright law.

00:49:06.360 Do you think these big organizations like Microsoft and OpenAI care?

00:49:10.740 No, they don't care about it, right?

00:49:12.600 Because they have money and power.

00:49:14.400 What else was involved in the deposition, in the testimony that took my son's life?

00:49:19.580 We need thorough investigation.

00:49:21.060 So you haven't seen those documents?

00:49:22.960 You don't know?

00:49:24.820 Okay, there are two things here.

00:49:26.340 One is the custodial documentation, right?

00:49:28.580 The second thing is his own statement.

00:49:31.140 His own statement.

00:49:32.260 We heard from few former employees of OpenAI.

00:49:34.780 There are certain wrongdoings there.

00:49:40.100 Like what?

00:49:41.780 We can't say something that someone shared, right?

00:49:44.320 So I would want to keep it more, you know, just overview.

00:49:49.600 That's something like that.

00:49:51.400 So that is the reason they're hiding.

00:49:53.400 And you know what?

00:49:54.060 If we come and tell openly, our life could be at risk.

00:49:56.700 But we are taking the risk and coming out and telling publicly that's the reason our son was killed.

00:50:02.540 Because he knew something that was going on.

00:50:05.280 Keeping in mind, he was feeding the data, right?

00:50:09.600 Pre-training data.

00:50:10.880 So to be clear, you think this is not simply about OpenAI stealing, you know, copyrighted material.

00:50:18.520 Well, there's more than that.

00:50:20.060 More than that.

00:50:20.600 100% sure.

00:50:21.920 Because copyright data, obviously, my friends and I were all talking.

00:50:25.560 These companies, they get many lawsuits like this, right?

00:50:28.460 Sure.

00:50:28.740 Do they really care about it?

00:50:30.140 No.

00:50:31.740 What is the kind of thing they do care about?

00:50:34.420 What kind of crimes do you think they would kill someone over?

00:50:37.180 Stealing some data that could cause a violation, possibly.

00:50:45.160 They might be stealing some data.

00:50:47.400 From the U.S. government, from other governments?

00:50:49.900 Yeah.

00:50:50.260 Something like that.

00:50:51.700 Maybe government is involved.

00:50:53.260 We don't know.

00:50:53.780 We're speculating.

00:50:58.300 That's just a remarkable story.

00:51:00.500 Do you think that we will find out?

00:51:02.040 Like, how will the rest of us find out what your son testified to?

00:51:08.320 That's exactly why we call out to President Trump to do a thorough investigation.

00:51:14.000 We want the FBI director to be assigned to investigate this.

00:51:18.580 This is not just about copyright.

00:51:20.540 This is about a lot of other things that are going on that could cause harm to society,

00:51:25.500 potentially, not just my son's death.

00:51:28.540 There's something harmful that needs to be evaluated.

00:51:32.040 And, like, thoroughly investigated.

00:51:34.480 That's exactly why they're covering up a suicide.

00:51:37.380 Why do you think medical examiners, the executive director, would come and tell?

00:51:40.780 Why do you think nobody gives us appointment?

00:51:43.060 Because there's some kind of foul play and there's strong power behind a medical examiner.

00:51:50.240 So you're saying that AI itself poses a threat to the world and that your son understood this?

00:51:58.780 Yes, he understood it.

00:51:59.840 But he was keeping in mind that's one aspect.

00:52:02.120 The other aspect is he knew everything OpenAI does.

00:52:05.600 Yes.

00:52:05.880 And he might have actually felt overwhelmed by what kind of activity he got involved in.

00:52:11.820 And we know that he spoke to a copyright attorney, which is again a cover-up, we suspect.

00:52:19.200 And what Matthew Butterick told us on November 29th is, yes, I met with your son.

00:52:24.800 He's a very brave man.

00:52:26.200 So Chir told us what OpenAI did to him.

00:52:30.800 He didn't say anything beyond that.

00:52:32.140 That day he said, I live in San Francisco, LA.

00:52:35.620 I come to San Francisco quite a few times and I'm going to talk to you next time when I come.

00:52:40.380 And then he's been silenced.

00:52:41.620 He's not telling us anything.

00:52:43.400 We had a ratoni call.

00:52:45.120 Even then, apparently he did not say.

00:52:47.640 So if we depose him, he's going to spill out everything.

00:52:51.120 And also we suspect he's Sam Altman's friend and he's played against our son and has indirect involvement.

00:52:57.680 We don't know.

00:52:58.220 There was a moment where Sam Altman left his own company or seemed to leave his own company for a few days.

00:53:08.360 You may remember this.

00:53:09.380 What was that?

00:53:10.240 Do you know?

00:53:11.000 Sam Altman was fired.

00:53:12.760 This was because of AI safety issues.

00:53:15.200 The board of directors for OpenAI from the nonprofit side, especially one called Ilya Sesto,

00:53:21.100 he and others, excuse me, fired Sam Altman and then all the 700 employees, including my son,

00:53:30.480 wrote a letter or a momentum saying that if they don't reinstate Sam Altman, they're all going to resign.

00:53:36.240 So they brought Sam Altman, they fired Ilya, who's AI safety expert.

00:53:43.080 And to be honest, few days after my son's death was announced, December 15,

00:53:47.240 Ilya was seen in a presentation in one of the conferences.

00:53:52.000 He had two security guards with firearms around him.

00:53:56.980 He was so scared of his life.

00:53:58.940 So we are seeing a mafia behind all these things, honestly speaking.

00:54:04.400 What were the safety issues that caused Sam Altman to get fired, do you think?

00:54:10.780 We don't know if it's safety issue or whatever.

00:54:13.800 We don't have the details of it.

00:54:15.260 Even my son doesn't know any of these things.

00:54:17.920 In fact, he supported Sam Altman's reinstating.

00:54:20.480 Yes, you said that.

00:54:21.260 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:23.180 Like a lot of AI safety people have been leaving OpenAI.

00:54:27.160 If you notice their CTO, Meera, I don't know her last name.

00:54:31.060 Their CTO also resigned.

00:54:32.860 Many people have been leaving OpenAI, not just the researchers.

00:54:39.680 Why?

00:54:41.460 That's exactly, I want to know why.

00:54:43.800 There's so many people to leave, obviously.

00:54:46.700 There is something, right, that they're not happy about, right?

00:54:50.760 Only person who spoke against them was my son.

00:54:53.760 Rest of them just quietly walked away.

00:54:55.580 My son, he couldn't take it.

00:54:57.860 He felt like, you know, he need to stand up and tell the truth so some harm can be prevented.

00:55:03.220 We need to investigate all this seriously.

00:55:05.240 Did your son ever mention, during that period when Sam Altman left, that very brief period, there was a report in the news media that said within OpenAI, AI itself was being worshipped like a god.

00:55:23.360 Did he ever mention anything about that?

00:55:26.500 No, he didn't.

00:55:26.940 Such he didn't mention.

00:55:27.960 And do you have any sense of what these harms are?

00:55:32.700 I mean, clearly, people are afraid of what AI can do, not just by eliminating jobs, which is enough to worry about.

00:55:39.320 But there are other things that people are very concerned about.

00:55:41.580 Do you know what they are?

00:55:43.580 They are in my son's publication.

00:55:45.480 Some of them he's covered.

00:55:46.640 One of them is like less traffic means the loss of jobs.

00:55:51.020 That was one of his concerns.

00:55:52.540 I'm proud of him for bringing that up.

00:55:54.220 He gave the graph, graphical representation of how the traffic is reduced to stack overflow and future websites that are a means of living for people.

00:56:03.580 That will be taken away.

00:56:04.900 That's his concern.

00:56:05.720 And also the accuracy, as I mentioned earlier in the interview, the accuracy of data.

00:56:09.840 And also he says something called like the modulation index or something, 0.5 versus 1.0.

00:56:18.700 He tells in his article, if it's 0.5, the data in and data out are not the same.

00:56:24.940 If it's one, data in and data out are same.

00:56:28.760 Most companies, including OpenAI, use 0.5.

00:56:32.180 That means the data accuracy is not maintained.

00:56:34.700 That is his biggest concern.

00:56:35.920 He being kind of like an architect inside, he knows in and out of ChadJPT.

00:56:43.740 What happens next?

00:56:47.060 If my son were alive, he was planning to bring a competition to OpenAI.

00:56:51.860 He was working on a medical startup.

00:56:53.560 I even checked with him.

00:56:54.440 How do you think it's a competition?

00:56:55.920 Not directly.

00:56:56.680 Mohamed said indirect competition.

00:56:58.260 He said he would have been a great humanitarian.

00:57:02.860 And he would have done a lot of causes for humanity with the concerns he had.

00:57:07.540 We lost a great human being, not just my son, who would have made a big difference to the world.

00:57:13.660 Now, what we want is we want justice.

00:57:16.420 We want death sentence to the one who killed my son, as well as the imprisonment for people who are behind it.

00:57:23.440 We don't know who it is, but we want to know.

00:57:25.940 And we want to know what my son stood against and take actions, at least in honor of him.

00:57:31.800 At least do something that he stood for and, you know, let his soul be at peace.

00:57:38.540 What happened to the piece of wig found on the floor, soaked in blood in your son's apartment?

00:57:42.680 Where is it?

00:57:43.320 It's still there.

00:57:44.020 We didn't pick it up because we want police to go and look at it.

00:57:46.740 It's in the apartment right now?

00:57:48.380 Nobody came to do the investigation.

00:57:51.560 We have the apartment case.

00:57:53.200 Nobody came to do the investigation.

00:57:54.900 We have been requesting police.

00:57:56.160 It's sitting there right now?

00:57:57.280 Yeah.

00:57:58.480 Still there.

00:57:59.180 We didn't pick up anything because it's crime scene evidence.

00:58:02.300 But no one's investigating it as a crime scene.

00:58:04.360 No.

00:58:05.480 In fact, like our attorney said up to December 31st, these people will retain the apartment.

00:58:11.580 In fact, we are paying the rent and we are maintaining the apartment as is

00:58:15.100 because we want someone to come and investigate all these things with so much evidence.

00:58:20.540 If medical examiner still calls it suicide, this is an ethical question, a regulatory question.

00:58:28.800 So it's just sitting on the floor right now?

00:58:31.160 Yes.

00:58:31.720 It's the same place.

00:58:32.760 We didn't touch any of that.

00:58:35.200 Wow.

00:58:35.640 This is a really crazy story.

00:58:38.100 It is.

00:58:39.680 Reality, right?

00:58:40.540 It's not a story.

00:58:41.740 It's how gruesome it is.

00:58:43.820 And like you see all the bloodshot, like there was a fight and my son has been tortured.

00:58:48.620 He didn't die immediately.

00:58:50.740 And where can we go with, where is peace of mind for us?

00:58:54.360 We can't, we just don't have any peace of mind.

00:58:56.780 Our life is not normal at all.

00:58:58.940 The only thing that could make a difference after the loss of our son is get him justice,

00:59:05.080 punish the wrongdoers, protect AI.

00:59:07.200 Did you know that California was this corrupt?

00:59:11.560 Yeah, we know it's very corrupt.

00:59:14.500 That's exactly why we're requesting FBI thorough investigation.

00:59:18.100 We did speak to an agent, I think last Friday.

00:59:21.960 We're waiting for that agent to get someone assigned, you know, special agent or something.

00:59:26.660 And we also know that there's a transition period in the government.

00:59:30.480 Some may be moved, transferred, some may be leaving.

00:59:33.100 So we just thought, okay, let's wait.

00:59:36.260 Meanwhile, we did all the groundwork that we needed to do.

00:59:38.740 We have the evidence.

00:59:39.680 We are here in the media.

00:59:41.080 We're telling the media.

00:59:42.160 Now we want the new oncoming federal government to intervene because Newsom, we know.

00:59:46.760 Trump himself makes a lot of statements against Newsom.

00:59:50.440 We don't, we wrote to Ro Khanna.

00:59:52.480 You talked to Ro Khanna, congressman from Silicon Valley.

00:59:56.080 We wrote to him.

00:59:56.940 No response from him.

00:59:58.000 Many people tried.

00:59:58.740 No response from Ro Khanna?

00:59:59.720 Yes.

01:00:00.120 Many people tried to reach out to him.

01:00:01.780 Not one.

01:00:02.320 Many people.

01:00:03.900 No response from him.

01:00:05.500 Because they're all inside, right?

01:00:07.120 All this tech lobbying.

01:00:10.520 Okay.

01:00:11.260 I'm going to, you know what?

01:00:12.640 I'm going to text Ro Khanna right now.

01:00:14.420 Please do.

01:00:15.100 I'm going to.

01:00:15.880 And I'm going to send him this right here.

01:00:19.880 And Ro Khanna has not responded to you?

01:00:24.260 Yes.

01:00:28.500 Okay.

01:00:30.240 I sent out, I filled in a form in his website.

01:00:33.520 I gave my phone number.

01:00:34.640 I gave all the details on his website.

01:00:37.140 Many people from whom we know have tried to contact Ro Khanna.

01:00:40.460 They took my email address and they said Ro Khanna will reach.

01:00:43.360 It's been two weeks.

01:00:44.320 He hasn't reached us.

01:00:45.440 Initially, we thought it's holidays time.

01:00:47.740 So he's a little busy.

01:00:49.300 But even it's 14th of January today.

01:00:52.480 No response yet.

01:00:54.400 Okay.

01:00:56.120 I'm.

01:01:00.280 I'm going to.

01:01:01.060 I just texted him right now.

01:01:03.360 And I just sent him.

01:01:06.960 Pictures of the relevant information.

01:01:08.660 And I hope that you'll try again.

01:01:10.680 I mean, Ro Khanna is the Silicon Valley member of Congress.

01:01:15.040 And.

01:01:15.360 We don't believe in state government at all.

01:01:17.540 We know how corrupt it is, especially in San Francisco Bay Area.

01:01:21.860 It's very, very corrupt.

01:01:23.740 We don't believe in the system.

01:01:25.420 Unless, you know, we chained the governor.

01:01:27.300 We won't believe anything will happen here.

01:01:30.620 We need to go to federal.

01:01:31.620 And we also found out that he's protected under the Whistleblower Act as well.

01:01:35.520 You found out that what?

01:01:36.660 I'm sorry.

01:01:36.980 Whistleblower.

01:01:37.440 There's a federal aspect as well.

01:01:38.900 It's not just the state.

01:01:39.260 He's a whistleblower.

01:01:40.060 Yes.

01:01:40.440 Right.

01:01:40.740 There are two things here.

01:01:41.760 One is wrongful death.

01:01:42.800 One is a whistleblower.

01:01:44.740 The whistleblower comes under federal because the lawsuit was filed in New York and he was

01:01:48.880 a custodian witness.

01:01:49.900 So, we have a backing from federal government involvement.

01:01:53.120 If it's just the state, corrupt state would fight against it. 1.00

01:01:56.260 Since it is federal, they can overtake the federal aspect.

01:02:00.220 We are writing to Federal Trade Commission now, today or tomorrow.

01:02:05.380 And we want them to do a quiet investigation of the case.

01:02:09.500 We have a top attorney in whistleblowers that's helping us prove one of means contingency basis.

01:02:15.540 We will work with him and bring the truth out.

01:02:19.220 I mean, your son was born in this country.

01:02:21.400 You can't murder American citizens because they're standing in the way of your business.

01:02:25.180 That is not allowed in this country.

01:02:27.120 You can't do that.

01:02:29.260 Imagine we are immigrants here and we came here.

01:02:32.280 We raised our son.

01:02:33.360 We were so proud of him.

01:02:34.720 We don't expect this to happen in this country, in America.

01:02:40.380 No, that's right.

01:02:42.420 We don't expect this to happen.

01:02:44.200 Like, sense of security has been lost for me ever since.

01:02:48.020 Do you worry about your safety?

01:02:51.900 Potentially.

01:02:52.660 Now that, like, we've gone so public, they may not target us.

01:02:55.860 Yes.

01:02:57.360 But there might be some kind of, you know, threat in terms of accidents or something like that.

01:03:01.860 And potentially, indirectly, they could harm us that they cannot be caught.

01:03:06.040 We suspect that.

01:03:07.320 And I don't go out alone anywhere because I'm more vocal.

01:03:10.600 So I don't go out alone for a walk or anywhere.

01:03:13.040 I always take my husband along.

01:03:14.700 And we make sure if we go somewhere, we inform our friends where we are.

01:03:20.100 We just keep letting people know.

01:03:22.140 In fact, like, I don't want my family from India to visit me because it's a big risk for them. 1.00

01:03:26.920 Has the New York Times called you to do this story?

01:03:32.300 We called New York Times two days after we got his body.

01:03:35.920 And we told, I think his name was, I don't remember his name.

01:03:40.300 So we told him many times.

01:03:42.500 They haven't even interviewed.

01:03:44.620 They ignored it completely.

01:03:47.240 And he said he'll get back.

01:03:48.620 He will say, he'll let us know what he can do.

01:03:51.760 And he doesn't even take our call.

01:03:57.720 What about the television networks?

01:04:00.600 CNN, NBC, Fox?

01:04:02.520 Is anyone?

01:04:03.840 Nobody.

01:04:05.040 ABC just relayed the vigil, candlelight vigil that we had for Suchir and Milpitas.

01:04:09.860 1.5 minutes they relayed of the vigil information, ABC News.

01:04:14.480 Local.

01:04:16.620 Now that we just received this evidence today morning,

01:04:19.800 we probably might reach out to some of the news media.

01:04:23.920 Now that we have this evidence, news media will talk to us.

01:04:27.240 We want to take it much forward.

01:04:29.020 Yeah, I don't, for the third time, I just want to say this again.

01:04:31.280 I don't think anybody, any honest person could look at this and say,

01:04:34.780 oh yeah, that's a suicide.

01:04:36.120 I mean, I just, you know.

01:04:37.820 We were hesitant because like they can try to manipulate the evidence or something like that.

01:04:42.420 We were very hesitant.

01:04:43.400 You know, like they can even attack the apartment, remove everything, clean up.

01:04:48.020 You know, like some things, crazy things like they might cause a fire and then let the, you know,

01:04:52.660 water sprinklers go on and it will destroy the evidence or something, right?

01:04:56.880 That's why we were very quiet.

01:04:58.240 We didn't go to media until we got this authoritative report.

01:05:02.540 It's very scary.

01:05:06.760 Well, I'm grateful that you're making, you know, as much noise about this as you are and you're as aggressive as you are.

01:05:15.880 Thank you for doing that.

01:05:17.240 And I'm going to...

01:05:18.100 Whistleblowers lives matter. 1.00

01:05:19.780 Oh, I agree.

01:05:20.340 We cannot lose.

01:05:21.900 Honestly, I was talking to my son.

01:05:23.800 I expressed concerns about his whistleblower activity.

01:05:26.400 But what I was thinking was he won't get another job because he's going against employer.

01:05:31.740 Right.

01:05:32.060 He kept assuring me he has his own startup plans.

01:05:35.460 But taking his life is something that I never expected.

01:05:38.820 This is not the first time.

01:05:40.800 Two whistleblowers from Boeing were found dead last year.

01:05:44.400 One of them exactly same way.

01:05:48.300 Another one died in the hospital.

01:05:49.880 They drugged him.

01:05:54.300 This is America.

01:05:55.880 Yeah.

01:05:57.360 Thank you for this.

01:06:00.440 We need to protect them.

01:06:02.400 Most whistleblowers, we were talking to the whistleblower attorneys, most of them, they don't even know there is support.

01:06:09.540 There's not enough awareness.

01:06:11.260 Going forward, we want to create awareness and help others.

01:06:15.360 Not just that.

01:06:16.440 There should be some kind of regulation, protection.

01:06:19.380 And I'm sure we are going to talk to New York Times at some point of time and said, how did you put his life at risk?

01:06:25.380 If he was a custodian witness, why didn't you give him protection?

01:06:28.920 Why was he left alone?

01:06:30.520 Right.

01:06:30.720 What kind of protection did he have for speaking truth?

01:06:34.660 Costing his life?

01:06:35.560 Well, I think most Americans like you would not even consider the possibility you'd be murdered over something like this.

01:06:42.020 Because, you know, the penalty you would assume would be, you know, having trouble getting another job, but getting killed in your apartment.

01:06:47.760 And your son, I know I've asked you, so I want to make it totally clear.

01:06:51.740 He never mentioned being followed or feeling threatened or anything like that.

01:06:55.900 Actually, I do have some observation.

01:06:59.460 After New York Times article came, he didn't want us to visit.

01:07:03.740 He would come home and avoid me going there.

01:07:07.840 And he would also come during the weekday, not the weekend.

01:07:10.700 I want to investigate why.

01:07:13.920 Was he already under some kind of someone was following him or something?

01:07:18.300 I was about to demand him an answer, but he's no more.

01:07:21.980 Like slowly, you know, like with an adults and like how much can we push him each time we visit?

01:07:27.340 I just made sure like he's eating well and he's healthy and he has strong plans.

01:07:31.780 He has hobbies, all of those things.

01:07:34.280 But this kind of information, why are you coming in the weekdays?

01:07:38.480 I didn't get a chance to push him.

01:07:40.520 He was going to come for Thanksgiving and that's when I would question him.

01:07:43.700 I thought, he wasn't even alive till then.

01:07:47.600 We didn't have enough time.

01:07:51.700 Thank you for telling us this story.

01:07:54.220 Thank you for hosting us.

01:07:55.780 You know, we want Americans to know what happened.

01:07:58.680 And why has this been covered by news media?

01:08:00.940 Why no one is talking about it?

01:08:02.960 Why they want to repeat like parrots what medical examiner is saying?

01:08:07.180 Why they don't want to stand up for truth?

01:08:10.100 Why are they so sold out for these tech lobbying?

01:08:14.180 Is there any regulation on the amount of money they can spend for lobbying?

01:08:18.860 Right.

01:08:19.180 It's indirect bribe, right?

01:08:20.860 So they're all sold out.

01:08:22.740 Can't we do anything?

01:08:25.320 I'm an American citizen too.

01:08:28.440 This is totally disappointing.

01:08:30.240 A reporter came home.

01:08:33.580 He took the pictures.

01:08:34.560 He wrote the article.

01:08:35.940 And when I mentioned OpenAI's name, there was so much fear in him.

01:08:40.500 He was scared.

01:08:41.560 So the tech companies, they're controlling and they're turning out to be mafia.

01:08:45.660 Controlling the government.

01:08:47.060 Controlling the news media.

01:08:48.360 What more harm do we want from them?

01:08:51.480 Do we public?

01:08:52.860 Do we need to live in safety?

01:08:54.220 Or do we need to live in fear?

01:08:56.440 What are we doing?

01:08:58.120 Why are we quiet now?

01:08:59.400 Now that an innocent life is gone, we're seeing so much going on.

01:09:02.580 Why are we quiet?

01:09:04.800 Why can't we start justice for Suchir movement?

01:09:07.080 Why can't we do rallies?

01:09:08.540 Why can't we go on a non-stoppable movement until we get the justice?

01:09:12.940 Until we get the punishment?

01:09:14.080 I'm calling out to all Americans to stand with me.

01:09:18.380 We want to do rallies all over America.

01:09:20.720 We want to do vigil all over America.

01:09:23.100 And we want to enforce FBI investigation and punish the culprit.

01:09:27.040 I hope this helps.

01:09:33.320 Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson Show.

01:09:35.220 If you enjoyed it, you can go to tuckercarlson.com to see everything that we have made.

01:09:39.880 The complete library.

01:09:41.180 Tucker Carlson dot com.

The Tucker Carlson Show - January 15, 2025

Mother of Likely Murdered OpenAI Whistleblower Reveals All, Calls for Investigation of Sam Altman

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