Mother of Likely Murdered OpenAI Whistleblower Reveals All, Calls for Investigation of Sam Altman
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 9 minutes
Words per Minute
163.82751
Summary
In this episode, the father of an AI researcher tells the story of his son, Suchir Suchir, who died at the age of 20 years old. He talks about the circumstances surrounding his death, and how it may have been preventable.
Transcript
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00:01:17.360
Remember, you commissioned an examination by a forensic pathologist, independent forensics pathologist called Dr. Dinesh Rao.
00:01:26.300
I have it right here, accompanied by photographs that you took.
00:01:29.700
And I don't think any honest person looking at this would conclude this was a suicide.
00:01:34.680
There's an awful lot of evidence that it wasn't.
00:01:41.020
So I want to get into the details of what may have happened.
00:01:44.660
But I'd like to start, if you don't mind, by hearing about your son.
00:01:56.060
And for a living, he studied his master's, bachelor's in computer science from UC Berkeley, the top school.
00:02:06.500
As soon as he graduated, he started working in OpenAI as a researcher, AI researcher.
00:02:12.840
His first project was WebGPT, for which a fresh graduate, he took the lead role.
00:02:18.840
And that WebGPT turned out into be CHAPGPT, an application.
00:02:30.760
Following this, he worked at OpenAI for pre-training data.
00:02:34.700
That means he was scooping up all the internet data, feeding to CHAPGPT's AI model.
00:02:45.160
It needs massive amounts of data in order to become what it is, right?
00:02:52.520
And for the AI model, there need to be data fed.
00:02:55.480
And this data is what everybody is saying is copyright data.
00:03:04.720
He was directly involved in that part of the business.
00:03:10.060
Following that, he worked directly on the CHAPGPT application team itself under John Shkulman.
00:03:18.540
His former boss, John, claims that his role was vital in CHAPGPT team.
00:03:23.420
And he did some kind of tuning and optimization, made it very efficient.
00:03:29.540
But the irony is, he was never acknowledged by OpenAI.
00:03:34.020
And even after he left OpenAI, after his death also, no one has acknowledged him.
00:03:43.660
He was national champion in 2016 for Computing Olympiad.
00:03:57.160
Right after 12, he said, I don't need a degree.
00:04:00.300
He took up a job in Quora as software engineer.
00:04:04.000
He was hired with $25,000 sign-on bonus and a pay equivalent to a master's or a bachelor's holder.
00:04:13.340
And then he joined UC Berkeley after taking a gap year.
00:04:17.180
It took a lot of effort on parents to persuade him to go back to college for which he was grateful throughout.
00:04:23.780
In UC Berkeley, he represented UC Berkeley for ACM-ICPC Inter-College Programming Contest, the World Contest.
00:04:38.720
2018, he won $100,000 award for a TSA competition.
00:04:44.420
This is for passenger screening algorithm which TSA has implemented today.
00:04:51.880
Prior to this, at the age of 11, he got 680 in SAT.
00:04:58.700
And then at 14, the paper he wrote makes me believe he's a prodigy.
00:05:03.660
That science paper is about quantum computing, optimizing a CPU.
00:05:10.600
And he talks about VLSI design that my friends claim they studied in their master's in electronics and communications.
00:05:18.160
All these things make me believe he's a prodigy and he's demonstrated he had exceptional abilities.
00:05:28.820
So it's, but, and it sounds like from reading about it that he ran into trouble only when he began to question whether or not the data that was being fed to OpenAI was copyrighted.
00:05:41.660
He never raised the voice when he was within OpenAI because he had concerns that management will not approve.
00:05:50.080
And he started to question all these when ChatGPT became profit making.
00:05:58.940
He explains in his publication on Suchi.net what his views are and why he believes this is copyright violation.
00:06:08.100
And when he started, after reinstatement of Sam Altman in 2023, November, November 21st was the day he got reinstated.
00:06:17.040
I know it so well because it was Suchi's birthday that day.
00:06:19.940
He got reinstated and after that, Suchi started thinking about the copyright violation and he did discuss with me, it's very unethical and he feels awful about it.
00:06:36.820
What's unethical is using copyrighted material, material owned by other people for your business, which...
00:06:47.480
And also he did a research and he published like how the Stack Overflow and then a few other, like maybe Quora, a few other websites, their traffic is reducing.
00:06:59.460
And he also made a publication in which he explains that the answer given by ChatGPT versus the answer given by Stack Overflow, how unscientific and inaccurate the answer is.
00:07:24.100
When did he write his now famous paper about what the management of OpenAI was doing with copyrighted material?
00:07:31.260
He, next day, he already had made up his mind prior leaving to, leaving OpenAI.
00:07:38.220
In fact, in July, he discussed with his UC Berkeley colleague that he want to do a startup and his friend express interest.
00:07:47.200
So, next day after leaving OpenAI, he went on interview with Kennedy and News Media.
00:07:59.120
We just found out, based on his call logs, he spoke to someone for 40 minutes after his passing.
00:08:08.220
And it was next day after his last day at work.
00:08:23.220
On October 23rd, his interview was published in New York Times, where he makes a very, very open statement.
00:08:35.820
On October 23rd, he was quoted in the New York Times saying that OpenAI violates copyright law.
00:08:51.560
22nd November, but we found a body on 26th November.
00:08:58.580
So he was quoted saying that OpenAI was committing crimes and a month later he was dead.
00:09:09.600
On November 18th, New York Times named my son as custodian witness.
00:09:24.520
He just came back from vacation from L.A. and Catalina Island the same night.
00:09:33.540
Tell us about what the New York Times wrote on November 18th.
00:09:40.220
We need to get the documents from New York Times.
00:09:46.060
But we need to become like the estate administrator.
00:09:49.140
My husband will be the estate administrator end of this month.
00:09:57.980
But you know because you read it in the New York Times that your son had given journalists papers that he says implicated OpenAI in crime.
00:10:09.380
And also on December 2nd, Suchir had an interview planned with Associated Press, Matt Oberyn.
00:10:24.940
And he found out that Suchir wanted to take legal action against OpenAI.
00:10:31.780
By then, this news was not out yet that Suchir was a custodian witness.
00:10:38.100
Then all we did was hurrying up the second autopsy, private autopsy moment.
00:10:43.040
We heard that this was his initiative and he didn't make it to do that.
00:10:47.320
So, to bottom line it, it sounds like your son, who's your only child, by the way, and I'm really sorry about that.
00:10:57.180
Your son was in a position to threaten, really threaten OpenAI.
00:11:09.460
He writes in his article in New York Times as well as a publication.
00:11:12.620
He believes the way the AI is currently without any regulation is a harm to humanity.
00:11:18.780
He stood up for a cause and he lost his life for a cause.
00:11:37.640
Did you get any indication that he was depressed?
00:11:45.040
When we had his memorial service, many of his friends came and they gave the details of when they met him and how many times they met him after he left.
00:11:59.460
And more than anything else, he had concrete career plans.
00:12:04.420
And interviews scheduled and he had things on his to-do list.
00:12:07.800
Did he ever suggest to you, say to you, that he felt his life was threatened?
00:12:25.200
Last conversation with Suchir in person was that.
00:12:30.500
And he didn't want to take the salary for his work.
00:12:37.800
And he wanted to work in neuroscience and machine learning combination.
00:12:42.380
Using that, I think I've seen on his desktop one of the projects for Future of Doctor Visit.
00:12:47.740
Since we haven't unlocked his email and laptop yet, we have to discover that.
00:13:05.180
Did you ever talk to your son about Sam Altman?
00:13:13.260
But did your son ever talk to you about Sam Altman?
00:13:20.900
When he was in Catalina Islands, he spoke a lot against him.
00:13:26.260
In fact, I've seen his chat log saying that he wanted to work with Annie Altman in her non-profit work.
00:13:34.780
And that would be Sam's sister who has accused him of sexual abuse.
00:13:58.200
And my son is very ethical and he couldn't stand it.
00:14:03.940
So the time, if we could go to the timeline around your son's death.
00:14:17.160
There were five guys who went and my son was one of them.
00:14:20.360
All these are his middle school and high school classmates.
00:14:27.020
We spoke to every one of them when they came back and everyone gave an image like he is upbeat.
00:14:35.560
He celebrated his 26th birthday on 21st November, the day before he died.
00:14:41.580
What mood do we need to give an account of his happy mood?
00:14:45.760
And if you, you know, at a certain age, you know people who've killed themselves.
00:14:48.680
And typically, you know, the suicide follows a morose period of isolation.
00:14:54.320
The person's sitting alone in his apartment drinking.
00:14:57.180
He died the night he came back from a camping trip with his high school and college friends.
00:15:04.400
Our attorney, he came to his apartment with us.
00:15:07.460
And the moment he inspected his apartment, he said he had fresh supplies ordered.
00:15:16.680
So, and the photographs that you took, which we'll get to in a minute, you know, I just want to say this is not the first time I've been contacted by a family saying, you know, our child ruled a suicide, but we think it was a murder.
00:15:36.000
This is, I think, again, to any fair person suggests that he was murdered.
00:15:43.380
He came back from Catalina and, if you don't mind, telling us what you know about what happened then.
00:15:58.440
And then 4.54, he texted saying that it's pouring in San Francisco.
00:16:04.880
And when he got off Uber, leasing off his manager, he has apparently seen Suchir coming off with big suitcase and other things.
00:16:15.140
And then Suchir said, yes, I'm coming back from LA.
00:16:26.200
And Balaji said, like, shall we go to CSI, CES in Las Vegas in January?
00:16:32.420
Because it was raining here, dad brought up the concept that, you know, weather will be great in January.
00:16:58.880
So his last conversation with his father was what time, roughly?
00:17:27.220
Unfortunately, it took a day of effort for us to get his apartment open.
00:17:32.960
25th, they went and they didn't even call me back.
00:17:36.300
Apparently, they have gone and knocked on the door.
00:17:40.660
They just said, okay, nobody's opening the door.
00:17:43.980
Security guard from the apartment complex says he saw the fire truck and the ambulance and the police.
00:17:53.640
And 5.30 p.m. when I called on Monday 25th, they said, ma'am, unless you are here, we cannot open the door.
00:17:59.820
Next morning, unions, I went to Union City Police Station, that's where we live, and filed a missing person complaint.
00:18:09.880
I waited for one, one and a half hours, but both the parents, me and Matt, when we started calling all the hospitals in San Francisco area to see if he may have had an accident, why he's not responding to us, what happened to him.
00:18:22.440
The moment we found that he was not in any of the hospitals, we took a deep breath, okay, he's safe.
00:18:29.420
But when we went to his apartment, 1 o'clock, I went to San Francisco, and the dispatch came at 1.09.
00:18:48.060
1.09, two people, two officers came, and they went with the leasing office manager, leasing manager, and I'm waiting outside.
00:19:01.160
Then 1.13, they have seen, apparently, that's what the report says.
00:19:19.980
But they knew your son was dead, and they lied to you?
00:19:38.560
And they said, at 2 o'clock, they said, ma'am, you can go back home.
00:19:46.340
They told me it's going to take some time for the next two officers to come.
00:19:52.920
I'll contact them and find out if there's any way we can expedite it.
00:20:00.780
And then at 3.20, I saw a big white van coming, and my heart sank.
00:20:07.080
So they knew as they were speaking to you that your son was dead, but didn't tell you?
00:20:21.060
And how I knew my son was dead is looking at the white van.
00:20:37.240
I went and spoke to the officers who are the medical examiners.
00:20:40.660
They said, we have a dead person in the apartment.
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That is really, I mean, that is, I didn't know things like that happened.
00:25:02.340
What more can be expected in America than this?
00:25:12.700
Did the officers at the scene give you any indication of how they thought your son died?
00:25:19.020
At four o'clock, they came to the leasing office and the medical examiner said he shot himself.
00:25:30.620
At that moment, I raised to them, look, my son went into New York Times.
00:25:55.500
Forty minutes to determine the date, cause of death.
00:25:59.400
And at four o'clock, they gave me the keys for the apartment.
00:26:02.340
And they say, you can collect the body tomorrow.
00:26:11.640
And the next day, they released the body within 24 hours without doing the complete autopsy.
00:26:22.880
Then we just checked with the funeral home and we discussed with them.
00:26:27.320
And then they also said, looks like, doesn't seem normal.
00:26:49.560
And seeing our son like that, and they said, like, his eyes are gone with the gun wound.
00:26:59.540
But the fact that the funeral home, which, of course, sees dead bodies every day, said to you, this doesn't look right, doesn't look like a suicide, we recommend that you get a second autopsy, a real autopsy.
00:27:13.380
Actually, the way they didn't look at the body, they didn't look at any evidence, but the way the information was given to us and the way the procedures and policies need to be followed and norms were not followed according to them.
00:27:27.440
Before they received the body itself, they said, this doesn't look normal.
00:27:31.700
And we addressed the concern that it could be some foul play here.
00:27:36.000
And we knew from the very moment we heard the news, we know it's not suicide.
00:27:39.920
Next day, in the death news, and I'm shattered, but it's calling police, calling medical examiner, Corona's office, homicide unit.
00:27:52.180
So tell me what you know about what's been proven from the CCTV, from the surveillance footage about your son's last moments.
00:28:03.700
Is there any evidence anyone came in or out of the apartment?
00:28:06.860
Actually, even when our attorney concluded it's a suicide, even at that moment, I mentioned to the attorney, look, there are three entrances to this building.
00:28:21.940
And why are we ignoring that nobody came in, nobody went out?
00:28:25.940
And also what we just recently discovered is his packages are missing.
00:28:29.860
His roommate or no, his, you know, neighbor in the apartment complex, he mentioned that in the, they have a shared package room.
00:28:45.580
He reached out to me through Twitter on X platform.
00:28:50.940
And he said, have you picked up Suchi's packages?
00:28:57.820
When we talked to that neighbor, he said, like, it's very common that packages get lost.
00:29:03.960
In September, they received a notification that if you see so-and-so man, then let us know.
00:29:08.880
And that tells us a lot about the security and, you know, like, there's a compromise of key, there's a compromise of entrance.
00:29:17.680
All of these need to be investigated, obviously, when there is a murder.
00:29:21.040
So, let's get to the reason that I am anxious to do this interview, which is this report that you commissioned, Dr. Dinesh Rao, and it contains his analysis of the condition of your son's body based on an autopsy, I believe.
00:29:42.380
And it critically contains seven crime scene photographs that you took in your son's apartment.
00:29:48.940
There are seven evidences that were very critical, which has not been picked up by the authorities.
00:29:56.660
They haven't even picked up critical things like a bag with blood that has my son's saliva in it.
00:30:03.960
And how could they miss haze falling all over from the wig?
00:30:10.680
So, the two things that jump out to me, the first thing that jumps out, and it's very obvious from the photographs that you took,
00:30:19.940
So, the official explanation is that your son shot him.
00:30:27.880
The official explanation is your son shot himself once in the head, and the bullet entered the brainstem and extinguished life immediately.
00:30:43.700
Well, I'm saying the official explanation is he shot himself once in the head, he died.
00:30:47.800
But these photographs show that that's not at all what happened because there's blood all over the apartment.
00:30:53.360
There's blood on the door, on the floor, in the bathroom.
00:30:57.320
So, that right there, just employing common sense, tells you that the person from whom that blood came, your son, presumably, did not have a fatal brain injury, at least when he was bleeding.
00:31:14.200
I mean, this is, something was going on in the apartment, right?
00:31:16.800
The second thing that jumps out is that there is a tuft of hair that's not hair.
00:31:28.100
It's, okay, so tell us what that is for people who don't know.
00:31:32.200
Like, there's some kind of plastic band or something that fits the wig on the head.
00:31:40.600
And that's obvious evidence that no crime scene investigators or police can miss.
00:31:45.840
They just ignored everything that showed murder, and they picked up everything that showed a cover-up suicide.
00:31:53.400
So, your son did not, I mean, he was a 26-year-old man with short hair from pictures.
00:32:02.800
This investigator's analysis looked at the hair from the autopsy pictures, that my son's hair, and this hair, this is not his hair.
00:32:10.240
And the portion of the wig, the clip-in wig, has blood on it.
00:32:14.340
Okay, so as a, you know, non-forensic investigator myself, I look at that, and I'm saying, that's a, that's a, well, where did this come from?
00:32:25.940
Right there, I would say this is, you know, maybe it's a suicide, but you're going to have to tell me how?
00:32:53.960
It was evaluated in some way by the authorities.
00:32:57.440
You have an, like a real autopsy done by Professor Rao.
00:33:11.560
One of them is the bullet angle is going downward, about 30 to 45 degrees downward.
00:33:19.720
Second thing is, there's a head injury on the left side of the head.
00:33:23.340
In fact, I spoke to medical examiner's office, executive director.
00:33:27.100
I told him there's a head injury, the sign of struggle in the bathroom.
00:33:32.400
He just declared that I'm the decision-making authority of state of California.
00:33:40.080
And when I brought up, we'll have federal investigation.
00:33:43.100
There was a momentary setback in his voice on the phone, but still they're holding on to suicide.
00:33:47.980
So, Dr. Cohen's autopsy, and this is grisly, I'm sorry, but shows, demonstrates, proves that the bullet was fired at what angle?
00:34:02.380
So, in other words, if this were a suicide, your son would have had to have held the gun to his forehead coming down.
00:34:11.480
If you look at the same thing, like the victim was sitting down.
00:34:18.380
In fact, like, Balaji and I, my husband and I, are going to create a virtual reality.
00:34:22.980
Once we get all the evidence, we'll create a virtual reality video and present it to court what exactly happened to him at that moment.
00:34:31.260
You also said, if I heard you correctly, that he had another head injury, not caused by a bullet.
00:34:38.400
Actually, it appeared to us that from his fallen toothpick and blood in the sink and all that, it appeared around 10-ish.
00:34:48.420
Because 10-10 is his last browser history on the desktop.
00:34:58.020
That's where this fallen dustbin, this fallen toothpick.
00:35:01.500
And his earbud has fallen in two different directions because of the head impact.
00:35:05.800
And we believe after that, he was either electrocuted or he was, you know, like he was paralyzed from the head injury.
00:35:14.440
And then he just, they just held him up, made him sit and shot him.
00:35:18.260
But also, we know that, that we're waiting for further report, but that may not be the cause of death.
00:35:36.140
But we're waiting for further reports from CT scan.
00:35:39.580
Why do you believe the gunshot was not the cause of death?
00:35:47.080
So, the autopsy showed that the bullet did not touch his brain.
00:35:53.100
And also, since I called an apartment on 23rd at 12.15 p.m., it rang once and it went to voicemail.
00:36:02.160
That makes me believe the killers were still there in the apartment.
00:36:12.880
Through that, we can figure out who was there, who was visiting the complex, and all that information.
00:36:17.840
That's exactly why we need thorough investigation.
00:36:23.940
You said your son's last browser record is from 10 p.m.-ish?
00:36:35.960
I think he was looking at a black cat or something.
00:36:39.020
Because last time in Sushirand, I met, a cat was going in front of me.
00:36:46.240
And then he was looking at neuroscience topics.
00:36:51.780
And he logged into a website for the startup or something like that.
00:37:01.780
So, he wasn't looking up, how do I kill myself?
00:37:04.480
No, that's the first thing that we look for, actually.
00:37:10.640
I mean, killing yourself is a profound decision.
00:37:18.380
If he's so brave to go to news media, to be a witness, he's so courageous.
00:37:24.580
How does someone so courageous do a cowardly act?
00:37:29.960
What doesn't add up is there's blood all over the apartment.
00:37:33.860
And there's a piece of a wig on the ground covered in blood.
00:37:39.160
And, you know, you don't need to be a detective to imagine that if someone's going to commit a murder, he might be wearing a wig as he goes into the apartment.
00:37:48.340
So, that right there, considering your son didn't wear a wig as a 26-year-old male.
00:38:10.760
His original hair have been found on the floor.
00:38:15.160
They might have strangled him by his hair or something.
00:38:32.720
And two entrances into the complex have no surveillance cameras?
00:38:47.040
Again, I've been involved in many stories like this, more than five, and I've never seen one like this.
00:38:55.620
So, what's unbelievable is it's so obviously not a clean-cut story.
00:39:00.840
I mean, you wouldn't walk into an apartment with blood splattered everywhere and see a man on the floor with a gun in his hand and say, oh, it was a suicide.
00:39:15.580
We don't know if they have been instructed to do this beforehand.
00:39:20.840
Thank you for describing all of that, and I'm sorry.
00:39:25.040
But, tell me how the authorities responded, if you don't mind.
00:39:34.120
In fact, we hired an attorney, a senior attorney.
00:39:36.680
He wrote to chief of police, city administrator, chief medical examiner, executive director of medical examiner.
00:39:50.100
Before making a decision of suicide, they need to take his mental state into account.
00:39:57.860
He just came back and he said, talk to four of his friends who accompanied him.
00:40:02.460
And he also said the autopsy information in that letter.
00:40:05.700
The autopsy report says that this is the angle of gunshot.
00:40:10.580
A doctor described this as atypical, abnormal, worrisome angle.
00:40:17.680
We just had them to reconsider it and do the investigation.
00:40:23.400
Chief of police apparently has agreed to do investigation, but medical examiner stopped it.
00:40:30.440
And the attorney came back and said, what they said was, oh, yeah, the angle looks different.
00:40:36.240
A man shooting himself in the forehead from a downward angle.
00:40:49.900
We're going to create a dummy of his size and we're going to demonstrate using the VR or in the video.
00:40:55.340
We're going to demonstrate to people it's not possible.
00:40:57.880
Who is the medical examiner who refuses to reconsider a pretty obviously silly explanation for this?
00:41:08.500
David Hellman is the San Francisco medical examiner.
00:41:11.280
But he has been covered by David Sewell, who's the executive director.
00:41:17.700
And even the news report is given by David Sewell.
00:41:24.040
He's the executive director of medical examiner's office.
00:41:26.780
He is the one who's holding on to suicide despite of seeing all the evidences.
00:41:37.240
What does he make of the bloody wig and the blood splattered in the bathroom when your son was not found in the bathroom?
00:41:47.180
He didn't want to pay attention to any of the things that we were saying.
00:41:50.080
And you know, the worst struggle here is the first attorney, he was reluctant to help us.
00:41:54.980
When he said suicide, when medical examiner's office said suicide, he didn't want to fight because they have been threatened.
00:42:01.740
And obviously, then we hired a second attorney.
00:42:08.140
And our attorney said, we'll give you explanation of every blood mark.
00:42:14.680
And he came back this Monday and he gave explanation.
00:42:19.580
And none of that explanation he gave corroborates to what happened in the apartment based on what we see.
00:42:24.700
That means even the crime scene investigator was bought.
00:42:31.100
If both the attorneys are like this, then where do we go?
00:42:34.480
We definitely need some serious help here from the authorities.
00:42:39.140
Okay, so the authorities would begin with the mayor of San Francisco.
00:42:46.040
Actually, Sam Altman is on the transition committee for the new governor.
00:42:56.920
Then you go to the governor of California, Kevin Newsom.
00:43:01.100
We are first trying to meet the district attorney of San Francisco, DA of San Francisco.
00:43:05.640
We probably are going to get an appointment sometime next week or later this week.
00:43:18.960
Like, we didn't get any appointment from any of them.
00:43:27.980
He just keep prolonging, prolonging, prolonging.
00:43:36.800
But now, like, we just didn't trust any of these people.
00:43:41.820
And now we're coming to media because these people, like, neither the authorities nor the attorneys are helping us.
00:43:48.440
This needs to go to the Department of Justice, I think, in the Trump administration.
00:43:55.000
We haven't heard yet because it's only been a few days.
00:43:58.700
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00:44:06.140
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00:45:28.100
Has anybody in a position of authority in the state of California said to you, boy, this needs more investigation?
00:45:55.420
In fact, even our attorneys, whom we hired, have been made to tell it's a suicide to us.
00:46:00.240
Every day, from every different angle, there is a push for us that it's a suicide.
00:46:05.700
But we parents, we know and we want to fight for justice for our beloved son.
00:46:12.160
So your son had just come back that day from hanging out with his buddies, okay?
00:46:19.920
No evidence that he was suicidal whatsoever and tons of forensic evidence that he was murdered.
00:46:25.900
So on what grounds are they saying it's very likely he killed himself?
00:46:32.700
He owned a gun and they put a shell casing and four bullets near it.
00:46:38.520
So there are both the evidences, right, for the medical examiner to pick up.
00:46:53.540
What contact with Sam Altman have you had since your son died?
00:47:02.520
Until then, no one from OpenAI ever contacted us.
00:47:06.160
They gave the PR report that they're supporting the family.
00:47:09.860
Suchir had obviously put parents in his emergency contact, right?
00:47:18.400
And when we reached out to HR, Sam Altman said he wants to talk to us.
00:47:23.160
By then, we already knew Suchir was, you know, his presence or his living would have been a threat to AI industry in general.
00:47:32.740
But eventually, it's going to expose everything, right?
00:47:37.700
And then they said, we provide employee assistance program.
00:47:45.680
Then they pushed us saying, we want to get you on a Zoom call ASAP to go over his stock options.
00:47:52.840
Then our response to that is, why are you in a hurry?
00:48:09.260
That's why they wanted to get us on a Zoom call.
00:48:14.060
Do you think, do you believe, you can't know, I guess, but do you think that Sam Altman was involved in your son's death?
00:48:23.960
We can't, you know, we can't say anything at this time.
00:48:27.280
But one thing I know for sure is if he was deposed, there are a few organizations who could have been impacted for that matter.
00:48:37.540
Like there are a lot of AI companies which violate copyright law.
00:48:40.360
And we don't know what OpenAI wanted to hide when my son deposed.
00:48:47.260
What was the wrongdoing that he would have brought up?
00:48:51.320
That's exactly we need FBI to investigate thoroughly.
00:49:06.360
Do you think these big organizations like Microsoft and OpenAI care?
00:49:14.400
What else was involved in the deposition, in the testimony that took my son's life?
00:49:41.780
We can't say something that someone shared, right?
00:49:44.320
So I would want to keep it more, you know, just overview.
00:49:54.060
If we come and tell openly, our life could be at risk.
00:49:56.700
But we are taking the risk and coming out and telling publicly that's the reason our son was killed.
00:50:05.280
Keeping in mind, he was feeding the data, right?
00:50:10.880
So to be clear, you think this is not simply about OpenAI stealing, you know, copyrighted material.
00:50:21.920
Because copyright data, obviously, my friends and I were all talking.
00:50:25.560
These companies, they get many lawsuits like this, right?
00:50:34.420
What kind of crimes do you think they would kill someone over?
00:50:37.180
Stealing some data that could cause a violation, possibly.
00:50:47.400
From the U.S. government, from other governments?
00:51:02.040
Like, how will the rest of us find out what your son testified to?
00:51:08.320
That's exactly why we call out to President Trump to do a thorough investigation.
00:51:14.000
We want the FBI director to be assigned to investigate this.
00:51:20.540
This is about a lot of other things that are going on that could cause harm to society,
00:51:28.540
There's something harmful that needs to be evaluated.
00:51:34.480
That's exactly why they're covering up a suicide.
00:51:37.380
Why do you think medical examiners, the executive director, would come and tell?
00:51:43.060
Because there's some kind of foul play and there's strong power behind a medical examiner.
00:51:50.240
So you're saying that AI itself poses a threat to the world and that your son understood this?
00:52:02.120
The other aspect is he knew everything OpenAI does.
00:52:05.880
And he might have actually felt overwhelmed by what kind of activity he got involved in.
00:52:11.820
And we know that he spoke to a copyright attorney, which is again a cover-up, we suspect.
00:52:19.200
And what Matthew Butterick told us on November 29th is, yes, I met with your son.
00:52:35.620
I come to San Francisco quite a few times and I'm going to talk to you next time when I come.
00:52:47.640
So if we depose him, he's going to spill out everything.
00:52:51.120
And also we suspect he's Sam Altman's friend and he's played against our son and has indirect involvement.
00:52:58.220
There was a moment where Sam Altman left his own company or seemed to leave his own company for a few days.
00:53:15.200
The board of directors for OpenAI from the nonprofit side, especially one called Ilya Sesto,
00:53:21.100
he and others, excuse me, fired Sam Altman and then all the 700 employees, including my son,
00:53:30.480
wrote a letter or a momentum saying that if they don't reinstate Sam Altman, they're all going to resign.
00:53:36.240
So they brought Sam Altman, they fired Ilya, who's AI safety expert.
00:53:43.080
And to be honest, few days after my son's death was announced, December 15,
00:53:47.240
Ilya was seen in a presentation in one of the conferences.
00:53:52.000
He had two security guards with firearms around him.
00:53:58.940
So we are seeing a mafia behind all these things, honestly speaking.
00:54:04.400
What were the safety issues that caused Sam Altman to get fired, do you think?
00:54:10.780
We don't know if it's safety issue or whatever.
00:54:17.920
In fact, he supported Sam Altman's reinstating.
00:54:23.180
Like a lot of AI safety people have been leaving OpenAI.
00:54:27.160
If you notice their CTO, Meera, I don't know her last name.
00:54:32.860
Many people have been leaving OpenAI, not just the researchers.
00:54:46.700
There is something, right, that they're not happy about, right?
00:54:57.860
He felt like, you know, he need to stand up and tell the truth so some harm can be prevented.
00:55:05.240
Did your son ever mention, during that period when Sam Altman left, that very brief period, there was a report in the news media that said within OpenAI, AI itself was being worshipped like a god.
00:55:27.960
And do you have any sense of what these harms are?
00:55:32.700
I mean, clearly, people are afraid of what AI can do, not just by eliminating jobs, which is enough to worry about.
00:55:39.320
But there are other things that people are very concerned about.
00:55:46.640
One of them is like less traffic means the loss of jobs.
00:55:54.220
He gave the graph, graphical representation of how the traffic is reduced to stack overflow and future websites that are a means of living for people.
00:56:05.720
And also the accuracy, as I mentioned earlier in the interview, the accuracy of data.
00:56:09.840
And also he says something called like the modulation index or something, 0.5 versus 1.0.
00:56:18.700
He tells in his article, if it's 0.5, the data in and data out are not the same.
00:56:32.180
That means the data accuracy is not maintained.
00:56:35.920
He being kind of like an architect inside, he knows in and out of ChadJPT.
00:56:47.060
If my son were alive, he was planning to bring a competition to OpenAI.
00:56:58.260
He said he would have been a great humanitarian.
00:57:02.860
And he would have done a lot of causes for humanity with the concerns he had.
00:57:07.540
We lost a great human being, not just my son, who would have made a big difference to the world.
00:57:16.420
We want death sentence to the one who killed my son, as well as the imprisonment for people who are behind it.
00:57:25.940
And we want to know what my son stood against and take actions, at least in honor of him.
00:57:31.800
At least do something that he stood for and, you know, let his soul be at peace.
00:57:38.540
What happened to the piece of wig found on the floor, soaked in blood in your son's apartment?
00:57:44.020
We didn't pick it up because we want police to go and look at it.
00:57:59.180
We didn't pick up anything because it's crime scene evidence.
00:58:02.300
But no one's investigating it as a crime scene.
00:58:05.480
In fact, like our attorney said up to December 31st, these people will retain the apartment.
00:58:11.580
In fact, we are paying the rent and we are maintaining the apartment as is
00:58:15.100
because we want someone to come and investigate all these things with so much evidence.
00:58:20.540
If medical examiner still calls it suicide, this is an ethical question, a regulatory question.
00:58:43.820
And like you see all the bloodshot, like there was a fight and my son has been tortured.
00:58:50.740
And where can we go with, where is peace of mind for us?
00:58:54.360
We can't, we just don't have any peace of mind.
00:58:58.940
The only thing that could make a difference after the loss of our son is get him justice,
00:59:14.500
That's exactly why we're requesting FBI thorough investigation.
00:59:21.960
We're waiting for that agent to get someone assigned, you know, special agent or something.
00:59:26.660
And we also know that there's a transition period in the government.
00:59:30.480
Some may be moved, transferred, some may be leaving.
00:59:36.260
Meanwhile, we did all the groundwork that we needed to do.
00:59:42.160
Now we want the new oncoming federal government to intervene because Newsom, we know.
00:59:46.760
Trump himself makes a lot of statements against Newsom.
00:59:52.480
You talked to Ro Khanna, congressman from Silicon Valley.
01:00:37.140
Many people from whom we know have tried to contact Ro Khanna.
01:00:40.460
They took my email address and they said Ro Khanna will reach.
01:01:10.680
I mean, Ro Khanna is the Silicon Valley member of Congress.
01:01:17.540
We know how corrupt it is, especially in San Francisco Bay Area.
01:01:31.620
And we also found out that he's protected under the Whistleblower Act as well.
01:01:44.740
The whistleblower comes under federal because the lawsuit was filed in New York and he was
01:01:49.900
So, we have a backing from federal government involvement.
01:01:53.120
If it's just the state, corrupt state would fight against it.
01:01:56.260
Since it is federal, they can overtake the federal aspect.
01:02:00.220
We are writing to Federal Trade Commission now, today or tomorrow.
01:02:05.380
And we want them to do a quiet investigation of the case.
01:02:09.500
We have a top attorney in whistleblowers that's helping us prove one of means contingency basis.
01:02:21.400
You can't murder American citizens because they're standing in the way of your business.
01:02:29.260
Imagine we are immigrants here and we came here.
01:02:34.720
We don't expect this to happen in this country, in America.
01:02:44.200
Like, sense of security has been lost for me ever since.
01:02:52.660
Now that, like, we've gone so public, they may not target us.
01:02:57.360
But there might be some kind of, you know, threat in terms of accidents or something like that.
01:03:01.860
And potentially, indirectly, they could harm us that they cannot be caught.
01:03:07.320
And I don't go out alone anywhere because I'm more vocal.
01:03:10.600
So I don't go out alone for a walk or anywhere.
01:03:14.700
And we make sure if we go somewhere, we inform our friends where we are.
01:03:22.140
In fact, like, I don't want my family from India to visit me because it's a big risk for them.
01:03:26.920
Has the New York Times called you to do this story?
01:03:32.300
We called New York Times two days after we got his body.
01:03:35.920
And we told, I think his name was, I don't remember his name.
01:04:05.040
ABC just relayed the vigil, candlelight vigil that we had for Suchir and Milpitas.
01:04:09.860
1.5 minutes they relayed of the vigil information, ABC News.
01:04:16.620
Now that we just received this evidence today morning,
01:04:19.800
we probably might reach out to some of the news media.
01:04:23.920
Now that we have this evidence, news media will talk to us.
01:04:29.020
Yeah, I don't, for the third time, I just want to say this again.
01:04:31.280
I don't think anybody, any honest person could look at this and say,
01:04:37.820
We were hesitant because like they can try to manipulate the evidence or something like that.
01:04:43.400
You know, like they can even attack the apartment, remove everything, clean up.
01:04:48.020
You know, like some things, crazy things like they might cause a fire and then let the, you know,
01:04:52.660
water sprinklers go on and it will destroy the evidence or something, right?
01:04:58.240
We didn't go to media until we got this authoritative report.
01:05:06.760
Well, I'm grateful that you're making, you know, as much noise about this as you are and you're as aggressive as you are.
01:05:23.800
I expressed concerns about his whistleblower activity.
01:05:26.400
But what I was thinking was he won't get another job because he's going against employer.
01:05:32.060
He kept assuring me he has his own startup plans.
01:05:35.460
But taking his life is something that I never expected.
01:05:40.800
Two whistleblowers from Boeing were found dead last year.
01:06:02.400
Most whistleblowers, we were talking to the whistleblower attorneys, most of them, they don't even know there is support.
01:06:11.260
Going forward, we want to create awareness and help others.
01:06:16.440
There should be some kind of regulation, protection.
01:06:19.380
And I'm sure we are going to talk to New York Times at some point of time and said, how did you put his life at risk?
01:06:25.380
If he was a custodian witness, why didn't you give him protection?
01:06:30.720
What kind of protection did he have for speaking truth?
01:06:35.560
Well, I think most Americans like you would not even consider the possibility you'd be murdered over something like this.
01:06:42.020
Because, you know, the penalty you would assume would be, you know, having trouble getting another job, but getting killed in your apartment.
01:06:47.760
And your son, I know I've asked you, so I want to make it totally clear.
01:06:51.740
He never mentioned being followed or feeling threatened or anything like that.
01:06:59.460
After New York Times article came, he didn't want us to visit.
01:07:07.840
And he would also come during the weekday, not the weekend.
01:07:13.920
Was he already under some kind of someone was following him or something?
01:07:18.300
I was about to demand him an answer, but he's no more.
01:07:21.980
Like slowly, you know, like with an adults and like how much can we push him each time we visit?
01:07:27.340
I just made sure like he's eating well and he's healthy and he has strong plans.
01:07:34.280
But this kind of information, why are you coming in the weekdays?
01:07:40.520
He was going to come for Thanksgiving and that's when I would question him.
01:07:55.780
You know, we want Americans to know what happened.
01:08:02.960
Why they want to repeat like parrots what medical examiner is saying?
01:08:10.100
Why are they so sold out for these tech lobbying?
01:08:14.180
Is there any regulation on the amount of money they can spend for lobbying?
01:08:35.940
And when I mentioned OpenAI's name, there was so much fear in him.
01:08:41.560
So the tech companies, they're controlling and they're turning out to be mafia.
01:08:59.400
Now that an innocent life is gone, we're seeing so much going on.
01:09:04.800
Why can't we start justice for Suchir movement?
01:09:08.540
Why can't we go on a non-stoppable movement until we get the justice?
01:09:14.080
I'm calling out to all Americans to stand with me.
01:09:23.100
And we want to enforce FBI investigation and punish the culprit.
01:09:33.320
Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson Show.
01:09:35.220
If you enjoyed it, you can go to tuckercarlson.com to see everything that we have made.