The Tucker Carlson Show - Origins of Christian Zionism, How It Corrupted American Christianity and Why It’s Finally Collapsing

00:00:00.000 jd hall thank you for joining us i think you're one of the clearest writers on the internet so

00:00:08.360 it's an honor to have you here um i've been trying to figure out for several years you

00:00:12.180 write on theology on substack and other places and very clearly i just want to say clarity being

00:00:18.800 the goal of expository writing you you achieve that right if you do i've been trying for the

00:00:24.860 last several years to figure out what christian zionism is not because i have an inherent interest

00:00:31.180 but because it's affected the shape of the world and a lot of people have died because of it and

00:00:36.000 it has real world consequences that we can we're living through right now what is christian zionism

00:00:42.500 where does it come from is it christian what's your assessment well if you listen to people

00:00:47.320 online every christian is a zionist just naturally right yes so the proponents of it will tell you

00:00:55.240 that it is the de facto position on israel and it always has been for christians uh to believe

00:01:02.640 in the establishment and support and protection of a jewish ethno state yes in palestine

00:01:10.780 christian zionism what said doesn't say in the bible that those who bless israel will be blessed

00:01:16.440 and those who don't will be cursed. 0.52

00:01:18.220 Yeah, and I'm going to go out on a limb

00:01:20.180 and say that you've had probably

00:01:21.720 about a thousand different people tell you that.

00:01:24.980 That's something that we hear every single day as Christians.

00:01:28.400 I couldn't find it.

00:01:29.060 I got my concordance out.

00:01:30.100 I couldn't find it.

00:01:30.540 Well, I remember the interview with Huckabee

00:01:31.880 and he couldn't find it either,

00:01:33.780 which is weird when you cite it all the time.

00:01:36.140 Or actually that was Ted Cruz

00:01:37.280 that couldn't remember where it was.

00:01:39.460 I'm not sure that Ted even knew

00:01:41.380 like if it was in the front of the Bible

00:01:43.240 or in the back of the Bible.

00:01:45.340 No, no idea.

00:01:46.440 But yeah, so Genesis chapter 12, verse 3 says, I will bless those that bless thee and curse those

00:01:52.660 that curse thee. And from that, and I'm simplifying it, but from that comes this

00:01:58.720 more philosophical notion than theological, that we as Christians have a duty-bound obligation

00:02:06.900 to protect and to defend and also to help establish a nation for the Jewish people

00:02:14.240 in Palestine. And it hasn't always been Palestine, you know. So, when political Zionism first

00:02:23.400 developed, they had posited Morocco and Galveston, Texas, Ohio, Siberia, different places.

00:02:31.000 Galveston, Texas?

00:02:32.120 Yeah. There was a substantial number of Jews there, and they thought this could be 1.00

00:02:36.660 sort of the safe space for, you know, Judaism worldwide. Which made sense because, you know,

00:02:43.260 the United States has always been a pretty hospitable place for Jews. But anyways, so far

00:02:50.440 as it concerns Christian Zionism, that is tied to a theology called dispensationalism.

00:02:58.960 Dispensationalism is a theology invented by John Nelson Darby.

00:03:02.880 What does the word mean, dispensationalism?

00:03:05.760 Well, the term refers to different dispensations of time by which God operates differently

00:03:13.640 and deals or interacts with man differently depending upon what dispensation of time it's in.

00:03:20.620 So dispensationalism is juxtaposed against covenant theology.

00:03:26.580 And those are your two basic viewpoints of Christians throughout the history of Christianity.

00:03:33.200 And for the most part, there's only those two perspectives.

00:03:38.680 You can get lost into the weeds really easily.

00:03:42.260 So, John Nelson Darby, he belonged to a bizarre Irish sect.

00:03:48.060 It was sectarian.

00:03:49.700 They had basically schismed their way outside of the established church.

00:03:55.980 They had several different theological hangups.

00:03:58.400 One is that they rejected all forms of church authority. They were what I would call sectarian

00:04:05.720 minimalists. So they reject the organized church. They rejected the established church. And part of

00:04:14.420 the reason is because their beliefs were so eccentric and weird, they would have been

00:04:18.420 excommunicated had they remained in the established church. So after moving from Ireland to Plymouth

00:04:28.380 England, the notion of dispensationalism grew. And essentially, the difference between

00:04:37.080 dispensationalism and covenant theology is that God in covenant theology is interacting with man

00:04:45.320 in accordance to the old or the new covenant. And so, the bulk of the church from

00:04:53.220 the first days of the apostles through the church fathers through the protestant reformation

00:05:01.080 whether we're talking catholics or eastern orthodox or protestant reformers all of them

00:05:08.120 are what you'd call covenantal in their theology so you said um and i'm sorry to be pedantic i was

00:05:14.720 trying to understand this because i really think it matters and you understand it better than anyone

00:05:18.260 i've ever talked to the premise is that god's promises change according to the time

00:05:25.260 according to the dispensation the era the epoch so dispensationalism can be complicated

00:05:32.980 classical dispensationalism separates the epochs of time into seven different eras

00:05:40.260 it can definitely be complicated there's something that's called leaky dispensationalism

00:05:45.500 which is a little bit less structured. But essentially, the big difference is this.

00:05:52.040 Covenant theologians have always believed that God saves people via covenant. And there was an

00:05:58.100 old covenant. That's what testament means, by the way, not testimony. It's the old covenant.

00:06:05.060 And then there is the new covenant that has been established. And that Jesus came and inaugurated

00:06:12.060 a new covenant. And he did that at Passover right before he was crucified. The last supper,

00:06:20.720 which was the last Passover supper, the last authentic Passover supper was also the first

00:06:27.260 Lord's Supper. It's the first communion or Eucharist. And Jesus says, this is my new covenant

00:06:33.760 or this is the new covenant in my blood that's poured out for many. And so in the new covenant,

00:06:41.340 Jesus Christ is the means by which God's people are saved.

00:06:47.740 Okay. In the old covenant, the covenant people of God were Israel. 0.70

00:06:54.800 Yes.

00:06:55.480 And God being very gracious gave Israel rites and rituals for them to see as an explanation,

00:07:04.720 a word picture of who their Messiah would be. So that when their Messiah came,

00:07:10.720 they would say, obviously, that's what this is about. 0.88

00:07:14.600 Passover is a good example.

00:07:15.620 They'd recognize the Messiah when he got there.

00:07:16.940 They would recognize the Messiah.

00:07:18.620 In fact, it would be hard for them not to recognize that Jesus was the Messiah.

00:07:24.680 He's crucified at Passover.

00:07:28.920 He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. 0.99

00:07:32.800 I mean, all the imagery is right there for the Jewish people to see

00:07:38.700 That this is the moment that we've been waiting for. Jesus installs the new covenant in his blood. And by that, by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, we are redeemed by faith in that. And then we become God's chosen people.

00:08:00.700 And so a covenant theologian is going to tell someone that quotes Genesis chapter 12, verse 3,

00:08:07.740 I will bless those that bless thee and curse those that curse thee.

00:08:11.540 A Christian, a covenant theologian is going to quote to you Galatians chapter 3, which is a book

00:08:17.320 of the New Testament in which the Apostle Paul is writing to the church in Galatia, and he tells

00:08:24.600 them that if you have faith in Jesus, you are God's children. Actually, he says, you are the

00:08:33.520 children of Abraham. It says it twice. So, by faith, we're adopted into God's covenant people.

00:08:41.920 And then at the very end of Galatians chapter 3, not only does it tell us that we are

00:08:47.900 the children of Abraham, those who believe, but also we are the heirs of the promises.

00:08:55.740 And so, in fact, in Galatians chapter 3, verse 7, the Apostle Paul very clearly explains that

00:09:04.500 that promise is not for the Jews. It never was for the Jews. The picture was, or rather,

00:09:11.820 the mission of God was much bigger than that.

00:09:15.380 And that's clear in the Old Testament, isn't it?

00:09:16.820 Right. It's Old Testament, and God is preaching through the rites and rituals of the Old Testament, the gospel, before Jesus came, all right?

00:09:31.920 so that they could understand concepts like grace and judgment and forgiveness and repentance,

00:09:39.840 because it was never about the sacrifice of bulls and goats. It's not as though that bloodshed ever

00:09:48.120 took away sin. It gave them a picture of the bloodshed that Jesus Christ would one day give

00:09:54.860 for us so that they could believe in what we call types and shadows, putting their faith

00:10:01.460 in the rituals that would one day be lived out in reality through the life and ministry of Jesus

00:10:10.120 Christ. And the greatest, you know, the great mystery of the gospel, Paul calls it, is that

00:10:16.240 Jesus was not just a Jewish Messiah. He was a global Messiah. He was everyone's Messiah.

00:10:24.160 and that by faith, we become the children of Abraham. And by faith, we receive Abraham's

00:10:31.120 promises. I was going to say a second ago, the very first part of Galatians chapter three,

00:10:37.640 he says, you know, when the promise is given to Abraham and to Abraham's seed,

00:10:44.360 Paul says, it doesn't say seeds plural. It says seed singular. The promise is not given to the

00:10:51.380 Jews. The promise is a reference to Abraham's seed. That's Jesus Christ because Jesus was of

00:10:58.300 the lineage of Abraham. So, the promise is not bless the Jews and God will bless you. 1.00

00:11:05.860 The promise is bless Christ and God will bless you. Furthermore, not only is that promise just

00:11:14.100 for Christ, but by the end of the chapter in Galatians 3, the apostle Paul says,

00:11:19.160 you are the heirs of the promise, meaning that promise is extended to us. And so the irony is

00:11:25.060 you have these so-called Christian Zionists who believe that we have to bless Jews in order for 0.84

00:11:31.220 God to bless us, and they're actually giving away their own inheritance. That's our promise. 0.97

00:11:38.340 I'm a child of Abraham. If you're a Christian, you're a child of Abraham. We receive the heir, 0.71

00:11:45.080 or rather we receive the promises of Abraham because we inherit them by the virtue of adoption

00:11:53.520 in Jesus Christ. That's what Christians have historically believed. And there are other

00:12:00.200 supporting texts, you know, you got Romans chapter nine, where the apostle Paul says that

00:12:05.480 Jews who do not believe in Jesus are not children of Abraham. You've got Romans chapter 11 that

00:12:14.280 paints the picture of the tree of faith in which unbelieving Jews are branches on this tree that 0.99

00:12:22.820 have been cut off and severed from both Abraham and God and in their place are grafted in 0.99

00:12:31.300 believing Gentiles. And so, we are brought into the family of Abraham and in covenant with God 0.99

00:12:41.980 by virtue of faith.

00:12:44.340 So when someone like Mike Huckabee or Ted Cruz

00:12:48.300 or any other politician or preacher

00:12:51.940 preaches a message that, you know,

00:12:54.120 if you want God to bless you, 1.00

00:12:55.420 you need to do X, Y, or Z for the Jews, 1.00

00:12:59.280 they're handing away or handing out Christian promises. 0.99

00:13:02.300 Those are for us.

00:13:03.540 We have those in Jesus.

00:13:05.120 We are the children of Abraham.

00:13:08.120 Cost of living is already making it hard to live here

00:13:10.800 and it's not getting any better.

00:13:12.180 Unfortunately, it's likely to get worse,

00:13:13.880 and a lot of Americans fill the gap with credit cards,

00:13:16.560 not just for fancy dinners,

00:13:18.040 but to cover things like groceries and bills.

00:13:20.940 That is a disaster.

00:13:23.000 It's understandable, but don't go down that road

00:13:24.900 because there is a tax, in effect, a survival tax

00:13:28.220 of 20% interest or more.

00:13:30.560 Why would you do that?

00:13:31.680 Why would you hand money to the big banks

00:13:33.240 when you can keep it for your family?

00:13:35.260 Our friends at American Financing have a better way.

00:13:38.320 If you're looking to buy your first home

00:13:40.180 or refinance your current one,

00:13:41.420 they're helping Americans achieve the dream of home ownership with monthly mortgage rates

00:13:45.300 currently in the fives. American financing saves its customers an average of 800 bucks per month.

00:13:51.200 That's nearly 10 grand every year back to you. This isn't just a loan, it's a total financial

00:13:57.280 reset. So debt is tough, but there's a smart way to do it and a reckless, self-destructive way to

00:14:03.800 do it, credit cards. And so we recommend American financing. They're salary-based,

00:14:07.840 not commission-based, which means they actually work for you, not the banks. They're called

00:14:12.220 America's Home for Home Loans for a reason. Call 800-685-5696, 800-685-5696, or visit

00:14:23.260 americanfinancing.net slash Tucker.

00:14:31.080 Feel free to skip this ad and all of them. With a $3,000 a month payday for life,

00:14:37.480 You could spring to go ad-free without it feeling like a splurge.

00:14:41.220 Every $20 ticket supports life-saving cancer research at Princess Margaret Cancer Center.

00:14:46.200 Feel free to buy yours today.

00:14:47.780 Licensed number RAF 155-2194.

00:14:51.060 Please play responsibly.

00:14:55.780 It doesn't make inherent sense, the theology that you're describing, dispensationalism.

00:15:04.520 um and also before i ask about how it spread and why is it true or product of my bad memory that

00:15:12.980 there are glimpses in the old testament that god plans to redeem the entire world that is not that

00:15:19.060 god's mission on earth is not just to protect this one group of people but everybody right

00:15:22.860 so uh what dispensationalists will do is they will look at verses in the bible about the end

00:15:29.060 times, we call that eschatology. They'll look at these eschatological texts about what God will do

00:15:35.520 with ethnic Jews, the children of Abraham physically. And they'll say, see, the Jews are 0.72

00:15:42.760 special to God in a way that other ethnicities are not. And it's unfortunate because three 1.00

00:15:50.720 different times in the New Testament, the scripture says, God is not a respecter of persons.

00:15:55.860 and each and every time it's a reference to the Jewish people, but they have in their head,

00:16:02.280 Jews are special. They look at a verse about what God is going to do one day in the eschaton or in

00:16:07.580 the end days for Jews and walk away from that saying, therefore, we need to support the nation

00:16:14.060 state of Israel. This must be a part of that grand plan that God has designed for the Jewish people.

00:16:21.140 But Isaiah chapter 19, just to give you an example, tells us that the Egyptians and the Assyrians will be redeemed by God in the end days and be brought to Zion, to Jerusalem, or to the promised land. 0.80

00:16:38.940 It calls Egypt God's special people and says of Assyria that they are the work of his hands. 0.93

00:16:46.180 These are two nations that are adversarial to the ancient Israelites. 0.89

00:16:50.300 Well, enslave them in one case. 0.99

00:16:52.080 Right. And the Assyrians, you know, are constantly warfaring with them. These are bitter enemies, and yet the prophet Isaiah says that they will become special to God. He will call them his own and draw them to Zion. 0.92

00:17:07.060 That's in the Torah?

00:17:08.440 Yeah, that's in the Torah. It's in Isaiah chapter 19, but that's not the only place.

00:17:13.380 There are literally dozens of different scriptures throughout the text that tells us that every nation group in the end is going to be drawn to God through Jesus Christ.

00:17:25.000 As a matter of fact, it's in the Abrahamic promise in Genesis chapter 12, verse 4 of that promise, right after it says,

00:17:34.300 I'll bless those that bless thee and curse those that curse thee. It says every family of the earth

00:17:40.900 will be blessed through Abraham. And so the Jews will tell you that it's because, you know,

00:17:49.160 Israel is such a grand, wonderful place that all of the different nations of the world are being

00:17:54.100 blessed, you know, by Israel. Unfortunately, the dispensationalists will tell you that too.

00:18:00.920 I say unfortunately, because that's clearly a reference of Christ. Through Jesus Christ,

00:18:08.180 God's saving love to sinners all around the world, every people group, every nation,

00:18:15.820 every ethnos is going to be drawn to God in the end. That's our hope as Christians, that

00:18:22.920 God wins, that salvation is secure ultimately for every nation under the sun, that God will

00:18:30.900 bring unto himself one chosen nation, one holy people for God's possession. And so, yes, we can

00:18:38.920 see places in the Bible where God has future plans for Israel, but we can also look to those very

00:18:44.460 same prophets in those very same books and see that God has great things in store for Persia,

00:18:51.040 for Iran. God has great things in store, you know, for Greece and for every nation, including,

00:19:00.000 by the way, the ancient Philistines who are modern-day Palestinians. God has plans in store 0.64

00:19:07.380 for everyone. That is the good news of the gospel, that Jesus shed his blood for sinners and that by

00:19:14.540 faith we can all become the children of God. And by virtue of that, children of Abraham. When I

00:19:22.360 was a kid in church, there was a song that we sang, Father Abraham. And it says, Father Abraham

00:19:28.480 had many sons. Many sons had

00:19:30.560 Father Abraham. I am one of them

00:19:32.600 and so are you, so let's just praise the

00:19:34.540 Lord. Probably raised

00:19:36.640 Episcopalian, that one skipped 1.00

00:19:38.420 your church. Yeah, not 0.99

00:19:39.940 in our hymnal. In

00:19:42.380 low church evangelicalism,

00:19:44.960 that song is probably

00:19:46.320 sung in every Baptist

00:19:48.160 and evangelical church.

00:19:50.860 It's a song of covenant theology.

00:19:53.280 By faith, Christians

00:19:54.560 become the children of Abraham. 0.90

00:19:57.020 And if a 0.71

00:19:58.480 If a Jewish person does not believe in their own Messiah, they're not the children of Abraham. 0.65

00:20:04.480 That's what Romans chapter 9 teaches, that not all who are of Abraham are really of Abraham.

00:20:12.420 I mean, bigger picture, it feels like the story of Christianity is a universal promise to all people.

00:20:20.000 Sure.

00:20:20.240 and dispensationalism seems like it reduces Christianity back to its pre-Jesus

00:20:28.900 state where, no, this is a promise just to one group, one genetic line. 0.79

00:20:36.000 Yeah, I would say at its heart, dispensationalism is a Jewish interpretive model. 0.91

00:20:43.260 As a matter of fact, they will actually take that as a point of bragging, 0.92

00:20:48.100 that we interpret the Scripture the way the Jews interpret the Scripture. 0.97

00:20:52.700 Well, the Jews miss Jesus. 0.91

00:20:54.940 Like, he came in the flesh.

00:20:57.180 He was there.

00:20:58.300 They saw him.

00:20:59.220 As a matter of fact, they saw him dead, buried, and resurrected,

00:21:03.480 and still didn't believe.

00:21:04.700 So maybe that's not who we should be taking pointers from

00:21:08.260 in terms of understanding biblical prophecy.

00:21:11.160 What's Jesus' role in dispensationalist theology?

00:21:15.200 well jesus role in dispensational uh theology is uh so it depends to whom so

00:21:25.040 john nelson darby the inventor of dispensationalism referred to the church the christian

00:21:32.780 church as a parentheses that god's main plan is israel but because they've been naughty

00:21:39.500 and disobedient. The church comes in and we're a parentheses. So instead of being like the bride 1.00

00:21:47.480 of Christ, the church is more like a summer fling, that this is where the rapture comes in,

00:21:55.480 that eventually God will rapture us, take us out. We're gone completely. And then

00:22:00.780 Israel can resume its role as the big picture. It's a very Jewish way of looking at the scripture.

00:22:09.080 where Jews and Judaism and Jewish people is always at the center of the scripture as opposed to Jesus

00:22:17.660 being at the center of the scripture. So, eschatologically, in terms of the end times,

00:22:23.540 there are different ways that Christians have looked at it throughout history. There's

00:22:29.180 amillennialism, and I'm not going to bother explaining these, but postmillennialism,

00:22:33.720 premillennialism, historic premillennialism, that is, they all agree, though, that God only has

00:22:41.820 one chosen people, and that's those who believe in Jesus. Whether they're Jewish, whether they're

00:22:47.400 Gentile, it doesn't matter. We're all the children of God if we believe. Dispensationalism is

00:22:54.620 different from all of those different ways that Christians can view the end times, because

00:23:00.300 dispensationalism is saying, well, really God's main love is the Jewish people. And for a time

00:23:10.200 in a so-called church age, in this dispensation of time, yeah, the church is here, but one day

00:23:19.280 we're going to be sucked out of here. We're going to beam up to heaven and then Israel will come 0.80

00:23:24.100 back and form the center of the show. And so, from my perspective and the perspective of 0.93

00:23:32.520 historic Christianity, it's not only an insult to the church to act like we're some kind of

00:23:39.840 summer fling for Jesus and that it's really about Israel. I think it's also disrespectful to Christ

00:23:47.340 because he didn't come to be like a tribal deity

00:23:52.600 of some desert war cult in the Middle East.

00:23:56.440 He came to be the Messiah and the Savior of the world. 0.94

00:24:01.960 They emphasize Jesus's Jewish messiahship all the time.

00:24:06.860 Matter of fact, you'll hear Jews who deny 0.76

00:24:10.100 that Jesus is the son of God. 0.93

00:24:11.700 I don't even mean messianic Jews, 1.00

00:24:13.260 just Jews that believe the typical teaching 1.00

00:24:16.740 in the Talmud about Jesus being punished in hell, all of that stuff, but they will, 0.79

00:24:21.860 when speaking to Christians, point out, well, you know that your Messiah is Jewish.

00:24:27.000 Jesus obviously was a physical descendant of Abraham. There's no argument there,

00:24:32.020 but the term that Jesus used for himself more than 70 times was son of man. Jesus did not

00:24:39.420 emphasize his own Jewishness. Jesus came as a savior of mankind, and so he called himself

00:24:46.780 son of man, which was a term from the prophet Isaiah. And so it not only reduces the big

00:24:54.480 picture of Christianity to something that is much, much smaller, it reduces Jesus from a 0.86

00:25:03.260 global messiah to, well, he's a Jewish messiah that they loan us for a while. You know what's 0.95

00:25:09.680 really rare these days? A company that makes things in America, not just designed in America,

00:25:14.840 conceived in America, assembled in America, but actually made in America, start to finish,

00:25:19.280 in a factory with American workers. Brooklyn Bedding is that company. Every mattress from

00:25:26.180 Brooklyn Bedding is built in their Arizona factory. No middlemen, no cut corners to boost

00:25:31.400 the margins. The founder started with nothing, no degree, no corporate backing, just learned the

00:25:37.760 craft, built a factory, created a product that is awesome. That's the American story that we support.

00:25:44.940 We think you probably do too. At TCN, we love the Thermo Balance mattress collection. It's made a

00:25:50.080 huge difference in the quality of sleep for a lot of people who work here. If you've ever woken at

00:25:53.860 2 a.m. sweating for no reason, well, you don't have to anymore. The cooling technology actually

00:25:59.700 works and your back feels better in the morning. They're endorsed by the American Chiropractic

00:26:04.880 Association, so it's real. They also give you 120 nights to try out the product. If you don't like

00:26:12.540 the mattress, they'll take it back or swap it out. No hassle. That's how confident they are in the

00:26:17.300 products they make. Visit brooklynbedding.com. Use the promo code Tucker at checkout for 30%

00:26:22.640 off site-wide. This offer is not available anywhere else.

00:26:52.640 You're gambling or the gambling of someone close to you.

00:26:54.420 Please go to conixontario.ca.

00:26:56.600 Jesus also goes out of his way in the Gospels

00:26:58.960 to praise the faith of pagans.

00:27:02.860 I mean, a Roman officer was the first person

00:27:05.040 to recognize that Jesus was the Son of God

00:27:07.380 at his death.

00:27:10.780 The Roman officer who's a slave, he heals. 0.58

00:27:14.180 He said, I've not seen any faith like this

00:27:15.700 in all of Israel.

00:27:16.440 But he was out of his way

00:27:18.100 to minister to the Samaritan woman, etc., etc. 0.92

00:27:21.840 Like, he's always picking people from outside the tribe. 0.94

00:27:25.120 Right.

00:27:25.420 You know, it's interesting that people ask the question sometimes, like, who killed Jesus?

00:27:30.260 And it's a big debate online.

00:27:31.920 Every couple weeks, a new fight breaks out on X where dispensationalists and covenant theologians are fighting about who killed Jesus.

00:27:42.580 And, of course, there's an obvious answer, right? 0.84

00:27:45.260 Like, the Jews killed Jesus. 0.94

00:27:46.680 We know that because at least eight times in Scripture, I mean, the Scripture explicitly says that.

00:27:54.460 The first sermon ever preached was the Apostle Peter that started by saying,

00:28:00.320 men of Israel, and a few lines later, he says, this Jesus Christ whom ye crucified.

00:28:05.940 So, the Pharisees plotted to kill Jesus.

00:28:09.020 If you remember in John chapter 4, Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead.

00:28:13.460 they see it. They recognize that he's the Messiah. The Sanhedrin, which is the ruling

00:28:18.960 council, comes together, and they immediately plot to kill Jesus. Like, they knew.

00:28:25.780 And Lazarus later.

00:28:27.280 Well, it was, yeah, it was an ancient cover-up operation, basically. 0.99

00:28:32.860 They're going to kill the guy again.

00:28:34.820 So, and Jesus looks to the Pharisees, and he says, you're plotting to kill me. This is what

00:28:40.180 you're trying to do. So the question would be, why does the Bible seem to blame Jews

00:28:46.380 for the death of Jesus? Obviously, they're involved. But it was technically the Romans

00:28:52.360 that, you know, nailed him to the cross. It was the Romans who killed him. And the answer is,

00:29:00.460 and well, Jesus himself, by the way, I should say, while he's on the cross says,

00:29:05.620 forgive them for they know not what they do. And he's speaking of the Romans, not the Jews. 0.75

00:29:11.580 He's talking about those who were actually doing that, the crucifixion. If you think about what 0.54

00:29:17.140 transpired after, before the crucifixion was done, the centurion recognizes that Jesus

00:29:24.320 is the son of God. Pilate very clearly was remorseful by the time he was done handing

00:29:34.840 Jesus over to be crucified. But within a few decades, you had mass conversions of the Roman 0.99

00:29:43.160 people and all throughout the Roman empire to Christianity. And by the third century,

00:29:50.560 you had the full Christianization of Rome. That doesn't mean that every Roman on earth was 0.60

00:29:58.160 therefore a Christian by the virtue of being born in a Christian empire. We all have to have faith

00:30:04.600 personal faith in Jesus Christ, death, burial, and resurrection. That's how we're justified

00:30:10.900 before God. But you have the Roman people recognizing who Jesus is very quickly.

00:30:19.720 The Jews who saw Jesus dead, buried, and resurrected, many of them followed after him,

00:30:25.940 but many of them persisted to persecute him. And then within a very short time, 0.62

00:30:32.100 they're stoning Stephen to death. Stephen, as he's being crucified, points out to the Jews, 0.84

00:30:38.980 you've always killed God's prophets and you've killed Christ. And so the reason why I think 1.00

00:30:46.600 the scripture isn't throwing the Romans under the bus, so to speak, even though they obviously had

00:30:53.380 a hand in Jesus' crucifixion is because they saw ultimately who it was that they crucified and then

00:31:01.180 they repented and they believed. And the Jewish people, those who did not convert and follow 0.94

00:31:08.280 Christ, ended up having to make a new religion in 70 AD when the Romans destroyed the temple.

00:31:17.120 Because all of those rites and rituals that we discussed, you know, that God had given the

00:31:22.460 Jewish people for them to see and understand who Jesus was, the festival of booths, Passover,

00:31:29.200 However, all of those various rituals and the different kinds of sacrifices all required a temple, and it required an altar, it required blood, it required a priesthood to make that sacrifice.

00:31:45.220 Those no longer existed after 70 AD.

00:31:48.300 and so over the course of hundreds of years you know the the sect of the pharisees that grew

00:31:56.660 into modern judaism had to essentially invent a judaism that is not what you see in the pages of

00:32:04.920 the old testament they renamed some feasts right like they still call it passover but it's not

00:32:11.800 it doesn't resemble the passover of the old testament it's a completely new disparate

00:32:16.600 religion. And that's why you have a desire among Christians throughout the last 2,000 years praying

00:32:25.020 for the salvation of the Jewish people. To be very clear, the Christian or covenantal theologian

00:32:31.920 message is not that Jews are totally cut off from God and that they cannot be saved and that God 0.83

00:32:39.400 hates them or anything like that, but it's that, congratulations, you're ethnically Jewish, that's 0.68

00:32:45.800 great, God doesn't care. Like every other group of people on the face of the planet, you need to 0.98

00:32:52.120 repent of your sins and believe the gospel. That's the Christian message. John Nelson Darby comes

00:32:57.320 along and the message towards the Jewish people begins to change and begins to evolve. And

00:33:02.780 suddenly it's instead of you need to repent of your sins and believe the gospel, it's you're

00:33:08.300 special. You're special to God. God's going to bless you regardless of whether or not you have

00:33:15.280 faith in Jesus just because you're Jewish. And, you know, that's partiality. The scripture 0.99

00:33:21.240 actually forbids that type of partiality. It's unfortunate that Christians believe 1.00

00:33:28.340 that's historic Christianity because it isn't. Christians ought to be safe in the holy land of

00:33:33.860 all places, but they are not. Keep in mind, these are the descendants of the first converts, 0.97

00:33:39.040 the first people who followed Jesus, people whose families have worshiped in the land

00:33:43.680 Jesus walked for centuries, for thousands of years. And these same people are now facing

00:33:49.040 enormous pressure to leave, fleeing their homes amid war and anti-Christian terrorism.

00:33:55.540 Untold numbers of innocents are lost and without hope, fellow Christians. But how do you support

00:34:01.460 them? There are groups out there who claim to support them whose real agenda is to move them

00:34:06.460 out of their actual homeland. We think that's wrong. We think that's evil, in fact. And so

00:34:11.580 We've looked far and wide to find a group that is actually supporting Christians in the Middle East, and we found one.

00:34:18.580 It's called the Vulnerable People Project, VPP.

00:34:21.560 It's one of the very few groups consistently helping vulnerable Christians throughout the Holy Land.

00:34:26.320 They deliver food and water to Christian communities trapped in Gaza, for example.

00:34:31.420 They help rescue civilians.

00:34:32.600 They provide emergency aid to families who have nowhere else to turn.

00:34:36.340 Today, they are helping Christian churches

00:34:37.940 and families safely remain in the communities

00:34:40.740 where their ancestors worshiped Jesus.

00:34:43.380 There should be a lot of groups doing this,

00:34:45.300 and trust us, we have looked for over a year now,

00:34:48.160 and there aren't.

00:34:49.560 But the Vulnerable People Project is doing exactly that,

00:34:52.480 and their work makes an amazing difference

00:34:53.980 in people's lives.

00:34:55.760 A gift of just $33 helps provide a day of protection

00:34:59.060 and support for the vulnerable Christians

00:35:00.740 in the West Bank.

00:35:02.420 Who's looking out for them?

00:35:03.660 Nobody.

00:35:04.060 Well, they are. A monthly gift with $83 helps sustain that protection throughout the month.

00:35:10.040 So visit SaveWestBankChristians.com and stand with Christians in the land where Christianity began.

00:35:17.480 That's SaveWestBankChristians.com. We are proud to partner with them. Thank you.

00:35:23.760 So most people don't wake up in the morning and decide to feel horrible, exhausted, foggy, disconnected from themselves.

00:35:29.480 But it does happen, and it happens slowly.

00:35:32.340 You're working hard, you're showing up, and then your energy disappears by midday.

00:35:36.080 Your focus is dull, your weight won't move.

00:35:39.020 A lot of people are told, that's just getting old.

00:35:41.040 That's what it is.

00:35:41.760 But that's not actually true.

00:35:44.380 For many men and women, these are not personal failures.

00:35:47.220 They are signals tied to your metabolism, your hormones, and nutrient imbalances that

00:35:52.960 go undetected for years.

00:35:53.980 You don't even know you're deficient.

00:35:56.240 And that's why we're happy to partner with Joy & Blokes, a company that was built for

00:35:59.680 people who are done guessing and ready to figure out what exactly is going on. And that starts

00:36:05.240 with comprehensive lab work and a one-on-one consultation with a licensed clinician. An

00:36:10.100 actual human being explains what's happening inside you and builds a personalized plan,

00:36:14.680 which includes hormone optimization, peptide therapy, targeted supplements. So don't settle,

00:36:19.800 go to joyandblokes.com slash Tucker, use the code Tucker for 50% off your lab work and 20% off

00:36:26.200 all supplements. That's joyandblokes.com slash Tucker. Use the code Tucker. 50% off labs,

00:36:33.240 20% off supplements. Join blokes. Get your edge back. What was Darby's motive? Was it sincere?

00:36:41.840 I do think that Darby was sincere. I've studied Darby a lot. I think he was sincerely wrong,

00:36:48.060 but I believe that he was sincere. Who wasn't sincere were the advocates of dispensationalism

00:36:55.660 that saw its political value in the century that followed

00:36:59.980 because Darby remained ostracized for a hundred years

00:37:07.020 or about 90 or so.

00:37:11.520 So you've got Charles Spurgeon, for example,

00:37:15.580 at the London Metropolitan Tabernacle in London,

00:37:18.480 couldn't stand Darby.

00:37:20.060 And he called the theology new.

00:37:25.660 called it novel and the typical theological belief, and it's a good one, is that that which

00:37:32.520 is new is not true. That which is true is not new. So if it's new and novel, like God isn't coming up

00:37:38.920 with new theology, right? If someone invents a new doctrine, it's automatically wrong. Yes.

00:37:45.980 Because God's already established his church. It's like Jesus and the disciples would have told us

00:37:50.220 about this yes so it was rejected by almost everyone because it was so novel and so new um

00:37:57.200 then we have Schofield that hits the scene in 1907 and he's a bit of a scoundrel like I don't

00:38:07.820 want to bash a dead person but he was not what you would call um a shining example of what a

00:38:16.460 christian should be you know he abandoned his family for example he's basically uh we know

00:38:22.700 that he abandoned his family yeah his wife and kids gee yeah so um he shows up in new york from 0.77

00:38:31.720 new york he goes to the uk he winds up at oxford which is the hotbed of political zionism they

00:38:39.780 print and publish a bible it we call it scofield's bible it's not scofield's bible it never was

00:38:46.440 Schofield's Bible. He never owned the Bible. It's Oxford's Bible. He was the theologian,

00:38:54.140 allegedly, whose notes in the margins of the Bible

00:38:59.500 propagated the theology of John Nelson Darby. And that took off like, you know, wildfire in

00:39:08.880 the United States. And it's because in low church evangelicalism, most clergy at the time,

00:39:16.380 even to this day, are not classically trained in seminary. Back then, especially before the age

00:39:24.400 of the internet and with the cost of publishing, the typical pastor in a Baptist or congregationalist

00:39:33.500 congregation would own a Bible, and that would be about it. They didn't go home to prepare their

00:39:39.440 sermon with a collection of commentaries or a Bible concordance or a lexicon. All they had was

00:39:49.860 a Bible. But if they could get their hands on the Schofield's edition, they would have all of

00:39:56.560 the study notes that they could read and learn and educate themselves. And they were smart

00:40:03.480 enough to know that the margins is not the same as inspired writ, but that became the de facto

00:40:10.960 home education for a lot of clergy. Within a single generation, among low church evangelical

00:40:18.700 Protestantism, dispensationalism became the majority view because it's a nice handy resource

00:40:26.880 that you read right there in the pages of the Bible, and a lot of uneducated Christians during

00:40:34.080 the era were actually not smart enough or educated enough, I should say, to discern the difference

00:40:39.740 between the inspired writ that was given by God the Holy Spirit written through the hands of men

00:40:47.120 inspired by God the Holy Ghost and the marginal notes in which this effectively schismatic cult

00:40:56.320 in Ireland, and then England has their theology on the side of the pages. And so they would

00:41:03.300 look at that, not see the difference, and all of a sudden, well, if you fast forward to today,

00:41:09.060 people believe that that's the view that the church has always held.

00:41:13.300 So Darby comes up with this, as you said, novel theology, cultish theology,

00:41:20.140 non-traditional Christian theology, but it's disseminated effectively by this guy,

00:41:27.140 Schofield, the family abandoner.

00:41:29.960 Schofield's name's on it.

00:41:31.320 Name's on it.

00:41:31.940 Yeah.

00:41:32.360 What was his motive? Do we know?

00:41:36.160 I don't think that Schofield's motive is sinister either. I don't mean to throw him under the bus

00:41:41.120 like he's a bad guy or a villain. I do think it was weird that he didn't think to himself,

00:41:46.460 okay, so I'm a relative nobody. Why are strangers paying to sail me across the ocean

00:41:55.260 to meet with people I don't know at Oxford?

00:41:59.740 Oh, strangers did pay his way across to do that?

00:42:02.360 There's nothing in Schofield's life that would suggest that he would have had the funds

00:42:07.420 to pay for that himself. There's a couple of things there that don't make a lot of sense,

00:42:12.120 including the club that he was a part of in New York, with dues that it would not be

00:42:20.780 reasonable to presume someone of Schofield's lack of employment would be able to afford.

00:42:27.340 So yeah, he goes across the ocean and he meets with high society. It's Oxford, right? And

00:42:34.500 they discussed putting this Bible into print. And it was the first Bible of its kind in which

00:42:42.960 the marginal notes are going to have theological content of that kind.

00:42:49.020 Yeah, it's a built-in study Bible, which was totally new. So if you couldn't go to seminary,

00:42:53.540 it's okay, just buy Schofield's Bible and believe what's within its pages.

00:42:58.560 so it sounds like you're suggesting that he was himself knowingly or not kind of an op

00:43:04.700 i think he was a patsy yeah i think that the zionists in the uk the political scientists

00:43:12.180 zionists got wind of what the plymouth brethren were teaching that's darby's bunch

00:43:19.020 and they thought well at the same time you've got theodore herzl who is trying to get europe

00:43:27.960 to buy into the Zionist project.

00:43:31.800 And this eschatology is growing over here, 0.91

00:43:34.720 which could be helpful to their cause.

00:43:38.200 And yeah, they disseminated the Bible,

00:43:42.660 the Schofield's Bible, I think,

00:43:44.340 for clearly political reasons.

00:43:46.660 So this came from the UK.

00:43:50.860 Zionism, as an idea,

00:43:54.160 really kind of gathered steam first in the UK,

00:43:57.080 in England.

00:43:57.960 why any idea i don't know why specifically zionism religious zionism took off in england

00:44:13.460 organically i mean that's where the plymouth brethren moved to so that would make sense

00:44:19.040 but i would point out that the same institution that printed the schofield bible

00:44:26.520 is the same institution that published the Balfour Declaration within a year.

00:44:35.360 Yeah.

00:44:36.000 So it's practically the same people.

00:44:39.620 So within a year of the Balfour Declaration, you have this,

00:44:43.240 hey, coincidentally, really great new theology 0.87

00:44:47.700 that helps to support, back up the political ambition of the Zionists.

00:44:54.100 I had no idea. 0.95

00:44:55.320 That's amazing.

00:44:56.520 so then it comes to the united states where it really takes root um and that's about when this

00:45:02.840 is pre-first world war that this hits the u.s yeah so it would have been uh what was it 1907

00:45:09.160 i think schofield was published and so yeah it came to the united states very quickly and it

00:45:14.200 just grew like wildfire because you've got baptists methodists congregationalists um you have the

00:45:20.060 Azusa Street Revival, which is just starting to kick off charismaticism. So anybody in those

00:45:29.040 circles, they're probably not going to a seminary. They're not mainstream Protestant that would have

00:45:36.260 had the brick-and-mortar seminaries. You know, you're Presbyterians, you're Episcopalians,

00:45:41.240 and so forth. And so, you know, good for them, they got to avoid most of the dispensationalism

00:45:48.080 problem for quite a long time. But now today, they're ate up with dispensationalism, but it's

00:45:57.040 really not theological for the mainstream Protestants. It's just, it's soaked in through

00:46:06.020 culture, through various channels, but it didn't come through their seminaries and Bible colleges.

00:46:11.180 As a matter of fact, Presbyterians, for example, they are the arch covenant theologians. Their doctrine should be hostile to dispensationalism, but you'll still find a lot of Presbyterians who will tell you that Jews are God's chosen people just because at this point, we're receiving this through osmosis as Christians.

00:46:36.880 It's everywhere. As Christians, you're supposed to support Israel. With Carrie Prejean Bowler, if I'm pronouncing her name right, I think that she shocked a lot of people when at the Religious Liberty Council meeting, she had said, as a Catholic, we don't support Israel or we're not Zionists. 0.69

00:47:02.540 And that shocked a lot of people as though she's making that up.

00:47:06.580 And they don't realize that the vast majority of Christendom has a confession of faith for their specific church that does not allow for the belief that the Jews are the chosen people of God.

00:47:22.600 And so, most people these days aren't that aware of what their own doctrine is.

00:47:29.200 That's right.

00:47:29.460 So there's a sort of a doctrinal downgrade, so to speak. That's what Spurgeon would have called it. A theological dumbing down where Christians don't know what their own beliefs are supposed to be.

00:47:42.180 interesting so there does even if you accept the precepts of dispensationalism as as just

00:47:53.300 described by you it's still a jump to go from that to unlimited military aid to the modern

00:47:59.840 secular state of israel right no no it's a it's a huge jump so it's on one hand we can acknowledge

00:48:07.820 let's say I am a premillennialist and I believe that Jesus is going to literally

00:48:12.340 come reign from Jerusalem one day. It's one thing to believe that, that one day a bunch of Jews 1.00

00:48:21.900 are going to get saved and become Christians. That would be wonderful if that happens. That's 1.00

00:48:28.020 great. What does that have to do with me supporting the state of Israel today? God may one day save

00:48:36.340 the Jews. Great. Hope he does. The promises are in the Bible that he will, so I believe that that 1.00

00:48:41.840 will happen one day. But that does not imply that I, therefore, have to become part of a protectorate

00:48:49.580 to protect a kingdom of Jews whose king is not welcome. And for me, that's the offensive part 0.94

00:48:56.840 as a Christian, being told that I have to support the Israeli state. Like, I support Jesus. Jesus

00:49:03.260 is not welcome in the Israeli state. The right of return, for example, gives Jews the permission 1.00

00:49:12.640 to come back no matter their blood quantum. They don't have to be a certain portion Jewish,

00:49:18.880 right? They have to be, if you have one grandparent out of four Jewish, you can come from anywhere

00:49:24.340 in the world to Israel. They'll let you immigrate and become a citizen because the thought process

00:49:31.360 is Jews need a safe place in the world, right? That's the philosophy. Unless you're a Christian.

00:49:39.620 If you are a Jew who believes in Jesus, you're not welcome back. 1.00

00:49:43.920 Is that true? 1.00

00:49:44.940 Oh, that's absolutely true. Yeah. So the way that-

00:49:48.140 You can be 100% Jewish by blood, but if you profess Jesus, you do not have the right to return? 0.64

00:49:53.180 You can be 100% Jewish by blood, you know, in terms of your ethnicity, but if you believe in Jesus, you cannot return, even if you're under persecution in your home country, hypothetically, if that were to happen.

00:50:09.140 So, let's say they're persecuting Jews based on their ethnicity in some country somewhere. 0.97

00:50:14.560 They don't care if they're a Christian, they're ethnically Jewish, they're going to put them to death. 0.97

00:50:19.360 The right of return would not allow them to return. The right of return specifically is for Jews who either remain Jewish or have not, at the least, joined another religion. So, if you are an atheist Jew, they don't classify that as a religion, so you can come back. If you are an agnostic Jew, you can come back to Israel. If you're a Christian Jew, you cannot. 1.00

00:50:46.020 so you can affirmatively out loud reject the torah and the talmud and all religious expression 0.88

00:50:53.500 judaism i don't believe in judaism i think it's absurd you can be a non-practicing jew with the 0.74

00:50:57.560 right of return you can be anti-practicing jew like atheist literally atheist well you can be 0.61

00:51:02.960 a satanist as long as that is not organized satanism unless you are a member with your name 0.88

00:51:11.120 on the roll of an official church of Satan somewhere, let's just say you practice the

00:51:16.300 occult, you can come in to Israel as long as you have not joined another religion like 0.71

00:51:22.880 Christianity. 0.58

00:51:26.980 What do Christian Zionists say about that?

00:51:29.420 Well, first of all, a lot of them don't believe it, you know?

00:51:32.400 They don't believe that's true?

00:51:33.700 Yeah, they're like, well, that can't be true.

00:51:35.760 because, you know, they've been told, you know, that Jews and that Israelis love Christians

00:51:43.680 and that we have this shared religious heritage, which of course is not true at all,

00:51:49.760 and that they are, you know, they're friends of Christians. So it's like it boggles their mind.

00:51:56.400 Well, that can't be true. Well, that is true. You know, Israel's not a friend of Christianity,

00:52:02.200 Not at all. There are laws on the books in the state of Israel that forbid evangelism

00:52:10.620 over the airwaves, that forbid evangelism to minors. As a matter of fact, Ron Cantor,

00:52:20.380 I don't know if you know that name or not. Ron Cantor is a Christian celebrity in Israel,

00:52:29.540 and he was on X one day talking about how loving and kind Israel is to him as a Jew who believes

00:52:37.800 in Jesus. And they will phrase it that way on purpose so as to not imply that they're a Christian

00:52:46.020 because if they say they're a Christian, they might have to leave. So, they'll say Jew who 0.66

00:52:51.660 believes in Jesus. They're trying to work the system. So, I look him up, Ron Cantor, 0.68

00:52:59.620 and he has a television station, a Christian television station in Israel. And in 2020,

00:53:06.060 they took his broadcast license because they said that he was telling Jews that they needed Jesus.

00:53:12.960 And so, he had to promise that he would not give the gospel to Jewish people, that he would not

00:53:20.260 try to spread the name and the fame of Jesus over the radio waves so that they would give him his

00:53:26.000 quote-unquote Christian station back. And there he is bragging about how great Israel treats

00:53:32.680 Christians. They took away his broadcast license for sharing Christ. So there are these so-called

00:53:41.180 Christian Jews in Israel that, again, they probably don't call themselves Christian Jews.

00:53:49.220 it's jews who believe in jesus um there are some that are there like him whose purpose it is

00:53:56.200 is to tell christians how great it is in israel listen to listen to this person tell you about

00:54:02.720 how great christians are treated in israel um but you and i both know that christians are not

00:54:08.040 treated well in israel at all no no they're not in fact they're they're the subject of a lot of

00:54:15.180 hostility and in a lot of cases, violence. And it's interesting how many Christians were expelled

00:54:20.480 from their lands and their homes in 1948 with the foundation of the formation of the state of

00:54:26.920 Israel. Well, the church there is still having their property confiscated to this day for

00:54:32.320 settlement. You know, with the Orthodox Church, Israel closed their bank or froze their bank

00:54:38.980 account because they didn't pay their tax. It was a tax that they just suddenly threw on them.

00:54:45.160 All this time, they've not had to pay that tax. Israel throws it on them. They couldn't afford it 0.57

00:54:51.980 because it was years worth and they confiscated their bank account and threatened to take their

00:54:57.320 property. The Ottomans didn't charge churches tax. And so when the Ottomans were in control

00:55:06.720 of the promised land for 400 years in the millet system. They didn't charge churches tax. Israel

00:55:13.880 started just a few years ago. And, you know, so that Christians have pressure applied to them.

00:55:20.620 I mean, native believers, the ones whose churches have been there longer than Israel has been a

00:55:26.200 state, they're the ones that are facing the pressure that it's very hard to get Christians

00:55:31.700 in America to care about at all. And their Muslim rulers didn't do that during the Ottoman period.

00:55:36.720 Okay, so the answer is no. The Muslim rulers didn't tax churches during the Ottoman period. They were very kind to Christians. As a matter of fact, they took care of our holy sites. They had rebuilt Islamic authorities, rebuilt the Church of the Sepulchre three different times over the centuries.

00:56:00.220 they had a law protecting Christian pilgrims

00:56:05.540 on their journey.

00:56:06.620 Like nobody messed with the pilgrims. 1.00

00:56:07.820 The Ottoman Turks,

00:56:08.720 the Muslim rulers of the Holy Land

00:56:10.600 rebuilt the church of the Holy Sepulchre three times? 0.90

00:56:12.860 Three times, yeah.

00:56:14.120 Either completely rebuilt it

00:56:15.880 or a major renovation one time at Caughan Fire

00:56:18.160 and they redid the roof.

00:56:20.060 But if you've seen the church of the Holy Sepulchre,

00:56:22.240 you can imagine what it took to redo that.

00:56:25.300 No, it's an enormous,

00:56:26.000 it's enormous and decaying.

00:56:28.280 Well, sadly, it's an amazing place.

00:56:30.220 Well, a lot of those sites have started to decay since 1948.

00:56:35.600 That one definitely is decaying.

00:56:37.740 And just physically, the physical building, the plant, is kind of falling apart.

00:56:43.220 some of the opposition to the Zionist project in Great Britain in the 1940s

00:56:51.760 was on account of the Muslim authorities having taken such good care of our Christian sites

00:57:00.760 that it was a bit of a gamble to let Jewish authorities do that. You know, I've heard

00:57:06.700 people say, if it wasn't for Israel, we wouldn't be able to go visit our holy sites. There wouldn't

00:57:11.860 even be holy sites anymore. And it's like, who do you think has been taking care of them

00:57:15.580 this whole time? It's been the Islamic authorities who've had, you know, control in that region,

00:57:24.100 that because of the Islamic view of Jesus, they've actually been quite kind to the holy sites in the

00:57:34.340 region. What is the Islamic view of Jesus? Well, I don't want to say that Muslims have a high view

00:57:40.700 of Jesus. The reason is, is because Jesus is not fictional. Jesus is real. Jesus of Nazareth is a

00:57:50.820 real biological person. To this day, he still exists. He's in heaven. He's not here. I would

00:57:57.300 say that Muslims have a false view of Jesus. It's not the real view of Jesus, but they're actually 1.00

00:58:02.720 quite fond of him. And so, they believe that Jesus was sent by God, that he was of God,

00:58:10.940 that he said true things, that he performed real miracles, and that he's actually coming again.

00:58:20.340 That doesn't make them Christians. It doesn't mean that—

00:58:23.660 Wait, Muslims believe Jesus is coming again? 0.99

00:58:25.320 They do. As a prophet, not as the Messiah, but they believe in his return.

00:58:31.180 so there's been an effort to to propagandize american christians on this question

00:58:41.840 in churches as well yeah i don't know how official it is but it's when you when you

00:58:51.080 listen to christians uh talk about islam they'll say things like well we've got to maintain good

00:58:58.220 relationships with Israel because Islam and Christianity are natural enemies. Well, I'm not 0.90

00:59:05.340 saying that we're not. I'm not saying that Islam and Christianity have ever had any kind of

00:59:09.900 partnership, but honestly, it's rabbinic Judaism and Christianity that historically

00:59:17.000 has been at odds. It's the idea that Christians and Jews have gotten along this whole time

00:59:24.960 and that we have to band together to protect ourself against the Muslims is a very recent

00:59:30.640 notion. This wasn't something that was ever posited before the 20th century. That part is

00:59:37.040 brand new. And it comes from the Jewish talking points that you see on the television and the 0.88

00:59:42.560 news constantly. So it's a political construct that's been accepted as a theological reality

00:59:49.700 by American Christians. I would say that's the case. There's so much crossover between what

00:59:55.520 is political and what is theological when it comes to Israel that sometimes it's really hard

01:00:00.280 to determine what is theological propaganda and what is political propaganda. Because when it's

01:00:08.480 being done to us, the people doing it, for them it's all political propaganda. They're not trying

01:00:15.180 to change our religion when they tell us this stuff as Christians. They just want us to have

01:00:20.380 a different political perspective. They have to come at it from the angle of theology, right?

01:00:27.080 And so that's the sad thing about dispensationalism is it, at the heart of it,

01:00:32.500 there are people who really believe this. Darby believed it. I think Schofield believed it.

01:00:38.480 Christians today, they believe it. They're very committed to it, but it's being promoted and 0.98

01:00:43.920 propagated by people who don't believe it at all and who don't care one way or the other but they

01:00:48.840 find it very helpful you know for their purposes so uh one of those interested parties is that is

01:00:57.200 the actual government of israel yep what is um the government of israel doing to convince american

01:01:05.440 christians that's supporting the secular state of israel is their religious duty like what what

01:01:10.180 does that propaganda campaign look like so i believe it's 729 million dollars um is what the

01:01:18.040 knesset set aside to fund the uh project through the israeli ministry of foreign affairs 729

01:01:30.200 million dollars through their public diplomacy unit is what they call it 729 million that was

01:01:37.860 budgeted for the year 2026 they have a part of that 729 million dollars for public diplomacy

01:01:49.540 called project 545 which is 145 million dollar budget set aside to affect or manipulate ai

01:01:59.460 and search engine results, primarily for Americans.

01:02:05.240 Just to give you an idea of how much that is,

01:02:08.520 at the height of the Soviet Union,

01:02:10.880 their budget was $3.5 million

01:02:13.460 for what they called their active measures.

01:02:16.620 Active measures was Soviet propaganda,

01:02:19.580 $3.5 million.

01:02:21.000 But that had to cover essentially five continents 0.92

01:02:23.820 because the Soviet Union was everywhere, right?

01:02:26.920 It was a bipolar world, had to cover most of the world, and it was through that program that they did their common turn exercises in infiltrating communist propaganda into education and religion and all these different avenues where it could affect Americans and also people from all over the world.

01:02:50.620 So $3.5 million is what the Soviets spent at the height of it for their active measures.

01:02:56.920 The public diplomacy unit under the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs is a quarter of that, right? It's about a quarter of that. But that's all spent on the United States. They're not spending that on other nations on different continents and different countries that can't benefit them politically.

01:03:23.860 Israel just has to have the United States as an ally. It doesn't have to work hard to gain

01:03:29.640 Brazil as an ally, right? Or anyone else. We are the ones with the veto power at the UN and

01:03:38.960 the Security Council. All they need is us. So, we're the ones that are the nice recipients of

01:03:46.820 that $145 million affecting even what our AI says and our search engine results. All that is

01:03:55.300 affecting us, how we view Israel. But on top of that, you see the religious infiltration, 0.98

01:04:05.660 which I know you've had other guests on to talk about that recently. But through the

01:04:10.840 the different pay-throughs.

01:04:16.180 What is, I mean, just give us a broad outline

01:04:18.900 of what the propaganda effort

01:04:21.520 against American churches from Israel looks like.

01:04:25.800 Geofencing, for example, what is that?

01:04:28.440 Yeah, so there were four different organizations

01:04:31.120 that had basically signed up, registered with FERA,

01:04:36.840 Foreign Agents Registration Act.

01:04:38.800 Yes.

01:04:39.020 and i think it was clock tower x and then also show faith by works and then a couple more

01:04:47.340 and the geofencing thing i know that you've discussed basically they're outlining outlining

01:04:54.280 churches on a map invisibly so that when you go there and you leave it'll ping your phone

01:05:01.160 with different types of propaganda yes right assuming that you went to church there so maybe

01:05:07.940 you would be more susceptible to some, you know, dispensational advertisement about why it's your

01:05:13.740 duty as a Christian to support Israel. But there's a lot that hasn't been discussed. That really has

01:05:20.560 the geofencing campaign. And I think that once it got exposed, they had maybe said at some point,

01:05:26.940 Brad Parscale had taken a step back and said, maybe we won't do the geofencing thing. That

01:05:34.000 was just a suggestion, or we wanted to do that. It was a $4 million, it was the same group, $4

01:05:40.500 million sending a bus with basically an Israeli, it's an Israeli propaganda bus with VR headsets

01:05:52.080 and things for, it was targeting young men ages 16 to 24. So it would roll into church parking

01:06:00.020 lots, and it would have a multimedia display for the young men to watch the IDF in action.

01:06:09.620 And it would show what happened on October 7th and then how heroic the IDF is in church parking

01:06:17.400 lots so that they would leave not learning anything more about Jesus, right, or God or

01:06:23.860 scripture or the Torah. It wasn't theological. It was purely political. But it's being done in

01:06:33.020 church parking lots. With the knowledge of the pastor of the church? I would assume so. So when

01:06:39.220 they did their Farrah filing, they didn't say, we're going to these specific churches. They did

01:06:44.000 say, we're going to churches in these states. But yeah, you can bet your bottom dollar that if they

01:06:49.440 have permission to roll into a megachurch parking lot and set up shop with their bus for young men

01:06:56.260 to come out and see the videos about how great and heroic the IDF is, I'm sure that the pastor

01:07:03.800 would give them permission to do that. I mean, Christians oppose abortion probably for a bunch

01:07:10.040 of reasons, but fundamentally because it's the murder of innocents. The baby didn't do anything 0.99

01:07:13.320 wrong. You can't kill the innocent. And Christians know that and they stand on that. This is the

01:07:19.640 most, the IDF is the most brutal military in the world, which is globally renowned for murdering

01:07:24.620 innocents at scale. How could any Christian pastor allow pro-IDF propaganda on his property?

01:07:32.380 You know, I wonder how many of those pastors understand that it is propaganda. Keep in mind,

01:07:38.360 They're not going out of their way to consume media that is outside of the ecosystem, the news ecosystem of that which is controlled by pro-Israel or, if not pro-Israel, pro-neocon, pro-war programming.

01:08:00.180 I mean, they're getting pro-war ideology from places like Fox News.

01:08:04.880 I mean, I'm sure that if you took a sample of 100 megachurch pastors and asked where are you getting your source, your news source, probably all of them are going to put Fox News as number one.

01:08:19.040 So that's what they're getting.

01:08:20.180 You know, when you talk to these pastors about Israeli war crimes, you're like, you know, did you know that they got caught, the IDF, on camera sodomizing a prisoner so badly, his large intestine fell out, he went into critical condition, and they almost, you know, he almost died in the hospital.

01:08:41.300 And then they just let him go back to Gaza and said he couldn't return.

01:08:47.180 That way they couldn't, you know, charge.

01:08:49.960 They couldn't have the trial of the IDF soldiers who did that because the victim can't come back to testify.

01:08:57.980 And the pastors, Christians, whoever you talk to about this will say, that doesn't sound right. 0.67

01:09:03.500 That must be Hamas, you know, propaganda.

01:09:06.400 It's like when you talk to them about the death stats in Gaza and you say, do you realize that almost eight people out of 10 that are being killed in Gaza, at least that, are civilian noncombatants?

01:09:26.980 It's really easy to look at you and just say, that's propaganda. That's clearly from the Gaza Ministry of Health.

01:09:36.400 And when Israel admitted those figures in February, then that doesn't make the news,

01:09:44.480 and they don't see it. And it's really hard to convince someone who believes that Israel

01:09:50.940 is chosen by God and special in a way that you're not special. It's really hard to get that person

01:09:58.000 to then evaluate what's happening in light of biblical ethics, because who am I? I'm not special.

01:10:03.880 Who am I to question God's special chosen people over here? And so that notion of God

01:10:13.460 playing favorites, God having a special people based on ethnicity, that clouds their judgment

01:10:22.880 from start to finish. It almost beats down mentally the person who holds that view.

01:10:31.060 it it it dismantles their ability to look objectively at what's happening in the middle 0.99

01:10:38.280 east it's almost like a spell that way yeah it's a self-loathing because you're just a gentile

01:10:44.720 these people these are the chosen people and god yeah god's loving he's kind he let you in 0.52

01:10:53.880 to their religion, but you're never going to be Jewish. They're special. And it's so infuriating

01:11:01.600 because the scripture teaches the exact opposite message. I'm God's chosen. I'm the child of

01:11:09.460 Abraham, according to the scripture, very explicitly in Galatians 3. In 1 Peter 2,

01:11:16.820 the apostle Peter says that we are God's chosen nation and royal priesthood and people for

01:11:23.860 God's own possession. He's talking about the Christian church, which is chock full of Gentiles. 1.00

01:11:30.880 He's not talking about Jews. We're the chosen nation. They're a desert war cult who's murdering 0.99

01:11:38.240 a lot of innocent people. It's okay to judge them. God's not going to be hostile with you 1.00

01:11:44.880 because you've looked at what's happening over there and said, you know what? It's not okay to

01:11:50.680 bomb an apartment building because there might be a terrorist in apartment 3G. And there's so

01:11:57.120 many different things about the IDF that Christians need to know, but they don't have a frame of

01:12:03.760 reference because there's not an effective news source breaking through to evangelicals who are

01:12:11.200 all pigeonholed in like this neocon-influenced news environment. And so it's like, you know,

01:12:19.040 their targeting program their ai targeting program that is designed to i think maximize

01:12:26.280 civilian damage is called the gospel that's what the idf named it there's two of them well there's

01:12:35.480 there's three there's um daddy's home you've heard of this one no oh daddy's home okay this is uh

01:12:43.600 astoundingly inhumane so their ai targeting program that lets them know when a target

01:12:55.880 comes within a specific location essentially geofencing but instead of church it's their home

01:13:02.940 it will notify essentially skynet when to send the missile when to drop the bomb

01:13:11.120 And it's called Daddy's Home because it waits for the terrorist, alleged terrorist. Keep in mind, these aren't people who've been tried or anything. There's no trial for them. The alleged terrorist gets home and then it pings Daddy's Home. Daddy's Home then sends the missile to kill them.

01:13:32.320 The family. 0.97

01:13:34.480 They would say that that is a target, and the target used some human shields, and if human shields die in the process, that's on the terrorists.

01:13:45.480 But it's called Daddy's Home because it's waiting for them to get home.

01:13:50.400 That's not something that the American military does.

01:13:53.080 We don't wait for targets to get home before we bomb them, but the IDF does.

01:13:58.220 So it is about 90%, 85% to 90% of the people dead in Gaza are civilian noncombatants. That's not from trying to miss civilian noncombatants, right? That's like you targeting them.

01:14:15.160 It's like doctors testifying that more than 400 kids that they've seen in the last remaining hospital in Gaza that's still open, 400 kids dead with a sniper wound, a sniper round caliber in the head.

01:14:35.200 It's not from shrapnel.

01:14:38.400 And so, yeah, they're waiting for people to get home before they blow them up.

01:14:44.000 And anyways, that was daddy's home. There's another one that's called the gospel. And so, I think that it's—

01:14:53.000 Why do they call it the gospel? 0.98

01:14:56.540 I think because it's deadly and kills a lot of people, and that's their way to mock Christianity, that that is their good news. 1.00

01:15:07.280 so let me explain that 0.99

01:15:10.940 the bloodshed of the old covenant religion of moses is what symbolized the forgiveness

01:15:20.020 of sins it allowed them to see and understand the messiah and what jesus would do on the cross

01:15:28.660 and by his blood were actually forgiven but after the temple fell in 70 a.d with no altar no temple

01:15:35.820 with no priesthood to make those sacrifices

01:15:41.600 with no blood being shed.

01:15:46.660 Where does the blood come from in rabbinic Judaism? 0.95

01:15:51.480 And I think it comes from their fixation on war. 0.90

01:15:55.400 I think that they view it as

01:15:57.580 almost an actual real atonement

01:16:01.420 that they are accomplishing something 0.99

01:16:04.940 of spiritual value when they go to war and kill Gentiles. 0.96

01:16:16.760 That seems controversial, I'm sure, 0.95

01:16:19.480 but their version of Passover,

01:16:22.180 which is not the Passover that God gave Moses,

01:16:24.640 it's the one the rabbis made up. 0.85

01:16:26.660 Did you know that- 0.89

01:16:27.260 How is it different from the Passover

01:16:30.860 described in the Torah?

01:16:31.920 Well, because there's no actual sacrifice.

01:16:34.800 There's no actual bloodshed.

01:16:37.200 So all the different rites and rituals of the cedar that they observe,

01:16:42.060 none of that is in the Old Testament.

01:16:44.260 In the Old Testament, there was unleavened bread,

01:16:46.960 and there was wine and bitter herbs,

01:16:49.220 and then the sacrifice itself.

01:16:52.860 Where an animal would be killed.

01:16:54.160 Yes.

01:16:55.960 Yes, for the purposes of atonement.

01:16:59.320 In their Passover version, between the third and the fourth cup, 1.00

01:17:04.200 they drink to the damnation of the nations and in particular to rome who they associate with

01:17:12.780 christianity presently presently so whenever mike huckabee says happy passover it's a very 0.77

01:17:22.680 common thing for dispensationalists to wish happy passover for you know their jewish friends

01:17:30.960 they don't realize what they're saying. They're not observing the ritual that God gave Moses. 0.68

01:17:37.020 They're observing the ritual that the rabbis made up in the centuries following Jesus. The 0.92

01:17:43.980 third and fourth cup, they take a drink and they pray a prayer specifically for the destruction 1.00

01:17:52.980 of the nations, the goy, the goyim. And in particular, Rome, and in Jewish and rabbinical 0.99

01:18:02.020 writings, they associate Rome with Christianity, because Rome became Christianized, and that's

01:18:08.720 the association that you see together in rabbinic literature. One of the prayers that Jews pray

01:18:16.940 three times a day prays for the destruction of their enemies this isn't

01:18:25.020 rabbinic judaism is not christianity minus jesus that's what christians need to understand

01:18:31.820 it is a completely different faith from what you see in the pages of your old testament

01:18:40.620 because that faith required the presence of a temple where god lived

01:18:45.880 Yes, absolutely.

01:18:47.280 It's in the architecture of the religion.

01:18:50.480 God designed it so that it could not endure without the temple. 0.83

01:18:55.180 That's why God is always promising the Jewish people in the pages of the Old Testament that 1.00

01:19:02.100 if they misbehave, he will have the land bombeth them out. 1.00

01:19:05.660 He will bring them into exile. 0.96

01:19:07.240 He will wipe the land free of them. 1.00

01:19:10.940 And he created a religion that would be temporary. 0.78

01:19:15.100 It all revolves around the temple, and they weren't free to change that religion either.

01:19:23.820 I'll give you an example. There's a story in the Old Testament of two guys that were left behind

01:19:30.560 to essentially guard the altar as Moses and the elders go up on the mountain. Their names were

01:19:39.020 Nadab and Abihu. They took their own light and decided to light the altar with their own fire.

01:19:50.120 King James calls it strange fire because it wasn't native to the altar. It was their own light. They

01:19:55.420 used their own Zippo, in other words. And God destroyed them. He killed them. Those two guys,

01:20:01.920 The ground swallowed them up and ate them, destroyed them in fire, because the faith of the Old Testament was given, the cultic religion, to Israel very specifically.

01:20:15.360 It had to be observed a very specific way through the specific means that God gave.

01:20:21.940 They weren't supposed to deviate at all.

01:20:24.520 It's like the guy that reached out to grab the Holy of Holies before it hit the ground and God killed.

01:20:29.980 Well, God didn't tell him to touch it.

01:20:32.040 He told him not to touch it.

01:20:33.660 Follow God's rules is the point.

01:20:35.260 It's a very precise religion because everything is designed to point to Jesus in a very specific way.

01:20:43.280 And so the Passover religion that they're, or rather the Passover rite that they're observing,

01:20:50.140 And in fact, most of rabbinic Judaism is way more deviated from the Old Testament than just what Zippo was used to light the altar.

01:21:01.360 It's a complete manufacture of new rites and rituals that aren't in the text at all. 0.54

01:21:08.360 It's not the same religion. 0.92

01:21:11.140 So when people say Jesus was a Jew, it's like, well, yes, in a sense, he was. He was a physical descendant of David and of Abraham. But if you're implying that Jesus was a rabbinic Jew, no, he wasn't. That was a completely different religion. 0.81

01:21:31.520 And most Christians don't grasp that.

01:21:34.840 They think that Jesus was a Jew, like Ben Shapiro.

01:21:39.440 Jesus would not have recognized Ben Shapiro's religion.

01:21:42.760 The Apostle Paul would not have recognized it.

01:21:45.460 They would have taken a look at it and said, what is this?

01:21:47.960 Because it didn't exist.

01:21:49.100 It didn't exist.

01:21:50.300 They call some things the same words, but it's a fundamentally different religion.

01:21:56.720 So most Americans are not aware of that.

01:21:59.180 you would think that ordained ministers would be aware of, that Mike Huckabee is an ordained

01:22:04.260 minister. He had a church for years in Arkansas. Well, I mean, you would think that Mike Huckabee

01:22:09.820 would know, as he quotes Genesis 12, 3, that Galatians 3 specifically says that's not for

01:22:16.100 Jews. So then you're left with one of two options. The first one is Mike Huckabee, a Baptist minister,

01:22:24.360 knows his Bible. The Bible says in Galatians 3, Paul says, I'm not talking about Jews. It's not

01:22:31.240 about Jews. That verse is about Jesus. And the promises are for Christians. They're the heirs

01:22:36.420 of the promise. That's option A. He knows that, but he's lying. The other option is he genuinely

01:22:44.140 doesn't know that. He's totally ignorant. He's never, ever read Galatians in his life. 1.00

01:22:50.600 I don't think that's really plausible. I would suspect he has read it. I don't know what he

01:22:56.420 does with it other than at a certain point, we have to start asking ourselves if there's

01:23:01.640 active concealment. If you know what the scripture says, that these are promises for

01:23:08.000 Christians, but you are applying it to Jews in direct contradiction to what the apostle Paul

01:23:16.000 said in terms of how that should be interpreted, at what point do we start looking at them as 0.71

01:23:20.500 the bad guys well i definitely look at them as bad guys i'll say that as to motive though it's a

01:23:26.460 little muddier i think i mean i look at someone like huckabee and it feels to me unknowable of

01:23:32.300 course but it feels like he really believes what he says but it's so obviously in contradiction of

01:23:37.740 what he says his faith is that that there seems to be like a delusion or something going on

01:23:43.760 Huckabee is a weird one because, yeah, he's a Baptist. Most Baptists are dispensationalists. But with Huckabee, you see things that I can only characterize as deceit. 0.51

01:24:00.880 for example um huckabee saying that the uh with jonathan pollard he acted in your interview as

01:24:15.700 though he was vaguely familiar with pollard yeah i had him he came by he stopped he stopped by the

01:24:22.060 embassy and i let him he just wanted to say thank you as though i could just do that right just stop

01:24:28.680 and talk to the ambassador.

01:24:30.620 But I was watching that interview

01:24:32.260 and I had just done an article

01:24:33.880 at Insight to Insight,

01:24:35.760 my sub stack,

01:24:37.520 that laid out how Huckabee

01:24:38.960 had been working for years

01:24:40.300 to get him released from prison

01:24:42.640 before he was released.

01:24:45.000 So I'm watching that

01:24:46.280 and I'm going,

01:24:46.780 did he forget

01:24:47.700 that he had been working

01:24:49.160 advocating for his release for years?

01:24:52.940 Like 20 years.

01:24:54.260 Yeah, it was a long time.

01:24:57.320 So...

01:24:58.680 you know has he been that much of a hardcore dispensationalist this the whole time that as

01:25:03.560 he was governor of arkansas or even before he sees a spy who stole our nuclear secrets to give them

01:25:12.120 uh to israel who would then give them to russia

01:25:19.000 did he even back then love the jews so much he was trying to get a spy

01:25:23.400 sprung from an American prison? Because that's so hardcore dispensationalist. I don't really 0.71

01:25:34.300 think that's a spiritual thing. In other words, I think that's a political corruption. I don't

01:25:39.240 think that's a spiritual corruption. I think that the political corruption is using spirituality

01:25:46.060 and Christianity as a shield to do evil and wicked things. And I think that that's a lot 0.72

01:25:54.160 of what you see in the dispensational marketplace of ideas, so to speak. You're seeing a lot of good,

01:26:01.300 honest, God-fearing Christians that we go to church with and we may work with, good folks,

01:26:07.680 our neighbors, who have this mindset that, well, I have to support Israel because the Bible tells 0.96

01:26:14.800 me too yes but the people at the top that are spreading that message the mike huckabees of the 0.87

01:26:21.840 world they do know better than that they know better and they're you know they're defending

01:26:30.620 things that cannot be defended and they're doing so in the in the name of christ is that i i should

01:26:38.280 say for people who haven't followed your career that you've been writing about kind of intra

01:26:44.060 protestant disputes for a very long time and you're one of the american experts on this topic

01:26:49.660 so like you know what's going on in protestant christianity in the u.s i think is that changing

01:26:55.180 is what changing this reflexive commitment to a non-christian theology that has resulted in

01:27:04.420 very weird political positions absolutely christians supporting genocide how could that

01:27:11.180 happen well this is how so i would say at at insight to insight i have the average age of

01:27:16.720 my audience probably over 50 it's a pretty old audience and it is every single day that i have

01:27:24.640 people say i never knew that genesis chapter 12 the abrahamic promise is specifically reserved

01:27:33.080 for Christians. Or I never knew that Romans 11 says that Jews without faith in Jesus are cut off

01:27:42.120 from God and Abraham. And they're coming to these conclusions for the first time. And a lot of that

01:27:49.120 is because of the internet. The internet's been around, I mean, what, a long time at this point.

01:27:53.740 But these discussions on theological polemics, that has not been readily available online.

01:28:03.360 Polemics is a field of theological study like apologetics, but it deals with those who claim to be Christians but are not, as opposed to apologetics, which deals with other religions.

01:28:16.840 Right.

01:28:16.920 polemics is more internal for example mike lee says uh a couple weeks ago that mormons are

01:28:25.560 christians it would be polemics it would be the field of theological study where you'd come along

01:28:31.080 and say well let's evaluate the claims of joseph smith and compare that to the bible and see whether

01:28:37.420 or not that's christian so that may be be more of a polemical um you know thing to do that as

01:28:46.540 opposed to apologetic. That's new. And so there's a lot more Christians, I think, at least this is

01:28:52.440 my finger on the pulse of evangelical Christianity online, a lot more Christians desiring to be

01:29:00.380 discerning, where they're actually looking at what people say in the name of God and comparing that

01:29:06.280 to the word of God to determine whether or not what they're being told is accurate.

01:29:12.020 And the first thing that they're discovering is, you know what, the Bible actually doesn't say I have to, you know, defend Israel no matter what it is that they do.

01:29:23.220 So it sounds like there's a kind of second Reformation going on within Protestant Christianity.

01:29:31.780 Yeah, the reason I hesitate at Reformation is I would like it to see a little bit more robustly theological.

01:29:39.760 political so it's still on israel it's still political at this point i think right now

01:29:45.520 evangelicals are are kind of angry that they've been lied to about what israel is and

01:29:52.800 one of the reasons why i think they're freaking out on their side when they look over and they

01:30:00.080 say look at all of this anti-semitism they're seeing people that are mad at israel for the

01:30:06.560 vast majority of people for Christians who have finally figured out that Israel is not the chosen

01:30:15.280 people of God, irrespective of denying Christ. It's that for the first time in their life,

01:30:22.580 they figured out that they've been lied to about something and they're kind of mad right now.

01:30:26.980 I think most people will calm down if you give them a little bit of time. So societally,

01:30:33.340 There are a lot of people whose eyes have been opened to,

01:30:37.860 hey, you know what they taught me in Sunday school

01:30:39.860 for 20 years, 30 years, 50 years is nonsense.

01:30:44.240 And they get a little bit feisty.

01:30:46.980 They're upset.

01:30:48.400 Well, they should be upset.

01:30:50.360 Well, that's the natural result of what happens

01:30:53.540 when you're lied to.

01:30:54.480 Because political questions, temporal questions,

01:30:56.060 they're of limited significance.

01:30:58.100 Theological questions, which bear on eternity,

01:31:01.300 are inherently meaningful.

01:31:02.640 Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Is there any popular Protestant American Christian leader who is rejecting, explicitly rejecting dispensationalism and all that, its political implications?

01:31:20.220 So what's happening in evangelicalism is a complete fracturing of the movement as a whole so that the big name leaders like your John MacArthur's and your R.C. Sproul's, those guys are dead, basically, is what's happening.

01:31:40.120 so there's a balkanization that's basically happening in american protestantism and

01:31:45.320 evangelicalism um you have a lot of people flocking to eastern orthodoxy and roman catholicism

01:31:51.680 um which you know as a protestant i never thought that i'd live to see that but evangelicals are

01:32:00.880 responding to their i didn't know what it was eastern orthodoxy i had no idea what that was

01:32:06.280 Catholicism without the Pope, you know, that's what most people think. They wear black instead

01:32:11.420 of white. Yeah, it's the Eastern church. And so they are Catholic-like. If you're a Protestant,

01:32:22.160 you're looking through Protestant eyes, they both have incense. Their priests look like they wear 0.95

01:32:27.680 dresses. They say words, we don't know what they mean, and they speak in different languages.

01:32:32.620 it all looks like hocus pocus when you're a protestant yeah but but yeah you know there's

01:32:37.500 a lot of difference between the the eastern and the western church um protestant evangelicals

01:32:45.060 are balkanizing though even um in american evangelicalism because we recognize that there

01:32:56.040 is a sickness among protestants that have decided to cater to worldliness by that i mean doing what

01:33:09.860 is popular in the culture as opposed to what is scriptural yes and so there is i think

01:33:16.200 hell to pay for mega churches and for your your big box evangelical super center churches

01:33:25.580 because for so many years, their church growth methodology or their church growth policy was

01:33:35.080 just to see how big they could get. Almost growing a church the way Rome satisfied

01:33:42.440 the Romans there at the end, just bread and circuses. I used to joke about churches shooting

01:33:50.460 midgets out of cannons just to get a crowd on sunday you know pastors were coming in on zip 1.00

01:33:56.520 lines and there's it's always something attractional and that's really great until the

01:34:03.020 first time in your life you hit a real crisis or you have something that that is deeply troubling

01:34:10.260 you you have an issue in your life that a good time on sunday morning doesn't help you overcome

01:34:16.280 you need something deeper and people are right now i think fighting almost resisting

01:34:25.560 the big box megachurch experience in the united states which is good and they should and i hope

01:34:33.860 that many of those big churches um not not because they're big but if they're big because they were

01:34:41.220 trying to water down the doctrine and just see how many warm bodies they could put into a room 0.96

01:34:49.760 at the same time and call the church, they should die because that's not actually biblically what a 0.98

01:34:55.900 church is. So anyways, with the balkanization, you have Christians going their own way. So you 0.97

01:35:02.380 don't see a lot of those huge names anymore. The big ones like Greg Laurie, he's got his own

01:35:10.800 scandal right now. They're all scandalized and going away. But there are some mid, I call them

01:35:18.360 mid-tier names of guys that are not bending the knee to Israel. And they're going to be in the 0.69

01:35:28.680 camp that you would call covenantal or reformed. But they exist. And so I work with, for example,

01:35:37.020 nxr joel webin i do a sub stack for him and he's been very good on this topic there are a couple

01:35:47.580 of guys in ogden utah with what's called new christendom press that have been very good on

01:35:53.820 this issue too so they're out there you have to look a little bit harder you're not going to see

01:35:58.700 anytime soon a church marquee that says we do not stand with israel that's not going to happen

01:36:06.080 But I know for a fact that there are a lot of people inside American evangelical churches

01:36:11.900 that are approaching the pastor privately saying, can we talk about Israel?

01:36:19.620 Why are you promoting this?

01:36:21.780 Hey, in Sunday's sermon, why did you say Israel is the chosen people of God?

01:36:27.920 What are we?

01:36:29.020 Are we not the chosen people of God?

01:36:31.380 And make them wrestle through those important issues.

01:36:34.580 Yeah, because the point is not just that it's inspired American Christians to support genocide, which it has, or the Netanyahu government, the buffoonish criminal government of Netanyahu, but that it diminishes Jesus within Christianity, and it corrupts the Christian faith. 0.59

01:36:55.620 I mean, that's the real cost, it seems to me. 0.61

01:36:58.940 Yeah, it does.

01:37:00.260 And it's frustrating, too, because you see the very people whose alleged ancestors crucified Jesus almost using him as a mascot for genocide, where they don't believe in Jesus, but they will look at you as a Christian and they'll say, you know, your Messiah is Jewish.

01:37:25.620 I'm like, well, yeah, and your ancestors killed him.

01:37:29.280 Like, I don't owe you anything.

01:37:32.080 Mike Huckabee said, was it this week or was it last week

01:37:37.320 that we have an eternal moral debt to the Jewish people?

01:37:42.360 That line frustrated me so much.

01:37:44.840 What do you mean we have an eternal moral debt to the Jewish people?

01:37:49.740 Jesus paid my debts.

01:37:52.360 I'm a Christian.

01:37:53.160 I don't have any debt to anyone, especially not on ethnic grounds.

01:38:01.640 That's absurd.

01:38:03.340 As a matter of fact, the new covenant—

01:38:05.520 The ultimate identity politics.

01:38:07.360 Oh, my.

01:38:08.360 The new covenant that Jesus installed, the difference is now, you know, the parents eat sour grapes and the children's teeth is not set on edge.

01:38:18.760 That we're not paying for what our parents did.

01:38:22.280 And so the eternal moral debt thing is just like an affront to what Jesus actually accomplished.

01:38:30.240 But you have people who don't believe in Jesus try to take property and ownership of Jesus.

01:38:36.520 And that's why we push back on them sometimes over the Jesus is Jewish thing.

01:38:42.480 Like, you'll see some of us troublemakers push back on that. 0.66

01:38:47.460 We don't mean to say he's not an ethnic descendant of Abraham, but he's not rabbinically Jewish, and you don't own him. No one owns him. He's a son of man. He belongs to the entire world, that he came from the Jews, that's true, but he came for the nations. 0.69

01:39:07.720 He came for everyone. And frankly, anyone who believes in Jesus is more an authentic child of

01:39:17.320 Abraham than any Jew who doesn't. So, at the end of the day, that's, frankly, that's my promised 0.96

01:39:23.480 land. Because the scripture says, I'm a joint heir with Jesus Christ. Not them. I'm the joint

01:39:30.520 air. Jesus is entitled to all of the Middle East. He owns everything. And the frustrating part of

01:39:40.620 listening to the dispensationalists is that they get too caught up on who has the keys to the

01:39:47.060 desert trailer park. Who has ownership of this little strip of land in the Middle East? And it's 0.90

01:39:56.080 like, let me get this right. God, the Son, became an embryo and planted himself into the womb of a

01:40:04.700 virgin, lived a life on earth that we should have lived, and then he died a death on our behalf.

01:40:13.440 God, the Father, imputing sin to him, he died as a substitute in our place, vicariously on our

01:40:21.760 behalf, and then proving that his sacrifice was accepted and that he truly is the Son of God. He

01:40:29.680 rose again from the dead, 40 days later ascended into heaven, and he's coming back again. And what

01:40:36.900 you're worried about is who has the keys to the West Bank and Gaza? Like, the Christian message 0.96

01:40:44.700 is that Jesus is the owner and operator

01:40:48.480 of every square inch of God's creation,

01:40:51.020 every bit of it,

01:40:52.680 not just this tiny little strip here.

01:40:56.580 And dispensationalists are so busy focusing on

01:40:59.640 how does this prophecy play out

01:41:02.180 and how does that prophecy play out

01:41:04.320 that they miss the big picture.

01:41:06.860 They miss that it's a message of hate and division

01:41:08.960 and violence and avarice,

01:41:10.880 whereas the Christian message is love and unity

01:41:14.320 and peace between people?

01:41:17.500 I was thinking the other day, Tucker,

01:41:19.660 how messed up it is that the message that you get 0.73

01:41:23.600 from the Jewish front, basically,

01:41:30.220 regarding the Iranian war right now,

01:41:33.520 is if you love Jews, the way you can prove that,

01:41:37.280 if you really love Jews as a Christian,

01:41:39.900 the best way for you to prove that 0.99

01:41:41.860 is for you to give them money 0.99

01:41:43.980 so they can buy more bombs to blow up more children over there, 0.99

01:41:52.580 whether it's Lebanon or Gaza or in Iran. 0.85

01:41:58.040 It's like, how offensive is it as a Christian to be told that 0.98

01:42:02.660 the way I prove I love Jesus is to give you bombs to murder people 0.98

01:42:08.560 who, by the way, if we're talking, 0.99

01:42:11.040 I'll bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee. Those people are related to 0.83

01:42:16.200 Abraham too, through Ishmael. They're his ethnic lineage also. It's like, you want me to give money

01:42:25.180 to one child of Abraham genetically to murder another one, and that's how I prove my Christian 0.95

01:42:31.080 faith. That's not Christian faith. That's downright satanic. Jesus said, if you harm a little one, 0.96

01:42:39.360 it'd be better that you tie a millstone around your neck

01:42:42.400 and cast yourself into the sea. 1.00

01:42:44.800 And here we have this whole Jewish 1.00

01:42:46.660 slash Christian cottage industry

01:42:48.800 where we are collecting millions of dollars 1.00

01:42:52.000 every Sunday into the offering plate

01:42:54.860 to go directly to the Israeli state,

01:42:57.200 not to share the gospel,

01:42:58.900 not to tell anyone about Jesus

01:43:00.600 and the good news of what Jesus did on the cross

01:43:03.800 to save sinners from the wrath of God,

01:43:06.040 but to give money

01:43:09.360 essentially to a genocide fund. Mike Huckabee was a pastor. Do you think Mike Huckabee has ever

01:43:16.400 stood on a street corner and told the Jewish people who their king is?

01:43:22.920 There's not a chance in hell that he's done that, or else he wouldn't be the ambassador anymore.

01:43:28.040 They'd have bought him a plane ticket. And so it's like, if you love Jesus, first and foremost,

01:43:35.880 if you're a Christian, tell the Jews about Jesus, because God wants to bring them to a saving faith 0.67

01:43:42.760 in the king that they've rejected. And then, just like anyone else that you love, just because you 0.55

01:43:49.960 love them doesn't mean you necessarily give them what they want, because what Jews want from 1.00

01:43:55.040 Christians is political clout in the United States to continue this violent Ponzi scheme that they 0.98

01:44:02.660 have going on in the Middle East, and doing that in Jesus' name, so far as Christians 0.95

01:44:10.320 are concerned, they're not doing it in Jesus' name when they don't need our money, but you 0.60

01:44:13.820 know what I mean.

01:44:14.860 We can't, we can't as Christians participate in that.

01:44:19.600 No.

01:44:21.140 J.D. Hall, thank you for that.

01:44:23.860 That was great.

01:44:25.060 Good to be with you.

The Tucker Carlson Show - June 22, 2026

Origins of Christian Zionism, How It Corrupted American Christianity and Why It’s Finally Collapsing

Episode Stats

People

Summary

Transcript