On this episode of the Tucker Carlson Show, the host sits down with journalist Steve Saylor to discuss his new book, The Black Lives Matter Effect, which examines the impact of Black Lives Matters on the number of Black Americans killed at Black social events, and the role of gun control in preventing Black Americans from getting their hands on guns. He also talks about why gun control is a non-starter for the Democratic Party, and why it s time to get a grip on our gun control laws. And, as always, there s a little bit of politics at the end of the episode. Enjoy, and tweet me if you have any thoughts or suggestions on how to improve the show. Timestamps: 1:00:00 - Steve saylor s impact on Black Lives 4:30 - Gun control 6:40 - Why gun control isn t a Democratic priority 8:15 - The role of the gun control debate 9:20 - What s going on with Black Americans 11:00 What s happening in the black community 13:30 14:40 15:00- What s the impact on the Black community? 16:20 17:30- How do we know that Black Americans are more likely to get their guns 18:40- Is gun control a problem 19:15 21:20- What is the role in our society 22: What does it mean for Black people 27: What are we getting out of the game 26: What do we need to do to stop gun control? 29: What can we do to prevent gun control ? 31:00 | What s our politicians need to be worried about? 35:00 + 32:10 36:00 // 37:30 | How should we know what s going to stop the problem? 37:40 | How do you know that we need a gun control plan 38:30 // 39:30 + 39:10 | How can we know we have enough guns in the 21st century 39:00 & 40:40 // 41: What s it really mean 45:00+ 44:00 Intro Music: "I have a problem with guns in America?" 47:10 - What are you going to do about it? Theme song by Ian Dorsch
00:20:57.240There were a lot of motives for Black Lives Matter.
00:21:02.640One was that America had gotten better after the 1990s, after the crack wars, at policing,
00:21:13.640that the drugs that were driving crime were not particularly marketed to inner-city blacks,
00:21:24.760the opioids, the oxycodone, and so forth.
00:21:28.860Even when the Mexican cartels started selling black tar heroin, they also focused, like the
00:21:37.420Sackler family, on like, you know, who are a bunch of people?
00:21:41.200If they drop dead, nobody's going to care.
00:21:43.360And that's like, eh, white people in small towns in Kentucky, that kind of stuff.
00:21:49.220So, you had this big rise in deaths of despair.
00:21:52.840Wait, so you're saying you think that was the Sacklers and the Mexican drug cartels, morally
00:21:59.000equivalent, I would say, or close, targeted rural whites, Appalachian whites, for example, on
00:22:07.780purpose because they knew that nobody would care when they died?
00:22:10.660I mean, it's the theory of a good reporter named Sam Quinones, who's written a couple books on the evolution of the drug
00:22:21.140trade in this century, that the Mexican cartels had a strategy that, no, we don't want to sell to particularly
00:22:32.680shooty people near media capitals, we'll sell to people who will overdose and quiet in small towns in the Ohio River Valley that nobody's going to care much about.
00:22:47.060And so, I mean, nobody paid any attention to this increase in the white working class death rate until just fortuitously in 2015, Angus Deeden was awarded the Nobel Prize in
00:23:02.140And then a couple of weeks later, he and his wife published this important paper saying, you know, if you look at the CDC data,
00:23:08.820life expectancy for white working class people without, you know, without college degrees has been dropping in the 21st century, and it's not supposed to happen.
00:23:20.780And it seems to be overdoses on painkillers, it seems to be suicide, it seems to be alcoholism, just deaths of despair.
00:23:33.840Yeah, yeah, 15 years into the, into when it started around 2000, when the Sackler family's Purdue Pharmaceuticals started their big push for opioid prescriptions.
00:23:47.540But how would no one notice this, I wonder?
00:23:50.520You know, there's no organizations dedicated to the welfare of white working class people.
00:23:58.140So the fact that they're dying in great numbers of novel causes, it basically relied on two academics and who said, wow, this is interesting.
00:24:11.260And one of them happened to win the Nobel Prize just before their paper came out.
00:24:17.020So people paid attention to their paper because, oh yeah, I heard about Angus Deeden and the Nobel Prize last month.
00:24:25.220Well, that's kind of, if I can just ask you to pause this, I think you're right, but it's sort of interesting if you think about it.
00:24:30.440There are no organizations dedicated to the welfare of rural whites.
00:24:41.340So why aren't there any organizations dedicated to that?
00:24:45.320You know, a few people have tried to set up organizations that speak for white people the way that Al Sharpton speaks for black people.
00:24:57.240And countless other organizations speak for Jewish people or Latinos and so forth and are highly respectable and are constantly quoted in the newspaper.
00:25:09.760You know, a bright, very gentlemanly fellow named Jared Taylor tried to do this for the last 30 years.
00:25:18.640And, you know, he's still banned on Twitter at this point.
00:25:23.980You know, it's America has a phobia about anybody speaking up for the emerging white minority.
00:25:35.160Everybody, you know, the conventional wisdom is that whites are rapidly being turned into a minority.
00:26:08.820Well, I think that's absolutely right.
00:26:10.000But if their life expectancy is declining faster than anyone else's and they are dying, then I mean, it does seem a little odd to lie about that.
00:26:24.740It's it's nobody lied so much as they just wonder, why are you interested in this?
00:26:33.620What kind of sinister reason do you have for worrying about the hundred million working class white people in the country who are generating these new problems and dropping dead from them?
00:26:51.100And, you know, putting out the alarm about it is just considered some sort of white supremacist, white nationalist, you know, dog whistle that, you know, will lead to slavery and the Holocaust and all sorts of imaginings.
00:27:12.160And, you know, the other half of the white population wasn't suffering, you know, they were, you know, the kind of people who don't have a bad back because they don't lift heavy things on the on the job.
00:27:26.600So, you know, they're not hooked on oxycodone or or when prescriptions got tightened up, they didn't go over to Mexican heroin and and then to fentanyl and so forth.
00:27:41.280Oh, we're just talking about deplorables here.
00:27:44.080But OK, I mean, I get, you know, everyone has preferences and a lot of people in Washington, New York and L.A. don't like the voting patterns of the population you're describing, but they are human beings and Americans.
00:27:57.180And if they're going extinct or they're dying in huge numbers, in any case.
00:28:03.520To ignore that or downplay it is evil, isn't it?
00:28:06.600Yeah, I mean, they to my view, they are our fellow American citizens, as are African-Americans.
00:28:16.180And so the fact that Black Lives Matter in this ironic, complete self-destructiveness brought about just historic changes in the number of black lives dying in kind of the opposite of the white working class deaths of exuberance.
00:28:40.160That you could see it in the Ferguson effect in 2015, 16, and now in the huge Floyd effect of the 2020s.
00:28:48.480I mean, we're talking something like an incremental 15 to 20,000 more blacks have died in those in car crashes and murders than if the baseline of a few years ago had been maintained.
00:29:04.680And that's, that's, that's just enormous.
00:29:07.160That's, that's easily the black death rate, death total in Vietnam, maybe Vietnam and Korea put together.
00:29:14.140Uh, and people should be talking about that too, because African-Americans are our fellow American citizens and we ought to be like keeping an eye on them and not refraining from noticing just because it's embarrassing.
00:29:30.220Just because who's it embarrassing to elites, the convent, the propounders of the conventional wisdom, uh, the respectable prestige press academia, uh, the democratic, uh, party and so forth that they, they promoted all of this stuff.
00:29:52.140Uh, they took black lives matter at face value and did very little investigation.
00:29:59.980I mean, basically you weren't any more allowed to ask the question like, okay, blacks, men tend to get shot by the police about two to three times as often as white men per capita.
00:30:15.700Um, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's a big difference, but it's nowhere near as big a difference as, uh, blacks tend to get shot by each other about 10 times as much as whites get shot by each other.
00:30:31.680And probably blacks get shot by non-police whites, you know, dozens of times less often than they're shot by other blacks.
00:30:44.360Um, you know, black, young black men in this country have an enormous homicide problem, a gun homicide problem.
00:30:55.280Uh, I looked up for young, for males age 15 to 34, their death by gun homicide in 2022 and blacks, young black men died about 50, not 15, but 50 times more per capita by gunfire than young Asian men.
00:31:17.840Uh, 24 times more than young white men, uh, and six times more than Hispanics.
00:31:24.360Uh, the Hispanics are fairly comparable in poverty rate and education and so forth.
00:31:32.940And, but they don't have anywhere near the kind of, uh, gun problem that, uh, African Americans have developed.
00:31:42.520And I think, but is anybody out there asking young African Americans and telling them, you know, you, if you guys could not get your homicide rate down to the Hispanic level, if you could get it down halfway from where it is now to this Hispanic level, this country would be so much better off.
00:32:04.420And race relations would be so much better, but, you know, you're not supposed to put crime statistics like that in the newspaper.
00:32:13.280It's just considered, you know, racist to, to mention all of these government statistics.
00:32:17.760So it's obviously not, you know, it's reality is not racist, you know, um, by definition.
00:32:26.120But again, sorry to keep asking variations of the same question, but what would be the motive in trying to hide something like that?
00:32:34.620All right, I, my theory is that it goes back to the grand strategy of the democratic party, which, uh, is enthusiastically assisted by other forms of the establishment, such as the, the prestige press, uh, academia, much, much of the corporate world as well.
00:32:57.840The, the, the, the Democrats have realized over the last few decades that they could be, that America is becoming more diverse.
00:33:09.060Uh, immigration is driving diversity, uh, patterns of interracial marriage, more, more people who are, have some claim to be non-white.
00:33:21.580Um, also there's the constant generation of new identities, such as in, in the last decade, transgenderism.
00:33:32.300Um, so as America becomes more diverse, the democratic party can profit by being the party of diversity, the party of the diverse, the party of people from the fringes of American society, the party of people that the Democrats would call the marginalized.
00:33:53.660So you're talking about immigrants, you're talking about, uh, black church, ladies, transgenders, uh, uh, Jews, Muslims, et cetera, et cetera.
00:34:08.380Now, the one problem with all this is that while it's, it works pretty well on paper and the Democrats have managed to win the popular vote in seven of the last eight presidential elections.
00:34:24.700Uh, the problem is keeping this coalition of the fringes of the marginalized from turning on each other, from becoming a circular firing squad.
00:34:34.860And because a lot of the components have very little in common.
00:34:39.200As we're seeing with Jews and Muslims right now, it's, you know, these people do not like each other.
00:34:47.960Do the black church ladies who were the steadfast Democrats, do they, do they really get along that well with the gays, much less with the transgenders?
00:34:56.860Nah, do the, do the Asian immigrants have much in common with, uh, with Hispanic immigrants?
00:35:10.360It, it's, it's inherent in the Democrats grand strategy to be the party of, of diversity, the party of the fringes of American society.
00:35:19.640So, uh, how can they unite their coalition of the margins?
00:35:25.280And the one strategy the Democrats have come up with is basically to foster, uh, racist animus against core Americans.
00:35:41.780People who, uh, you know, basically are demographically somewhat like George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams, you know, that are, that are white, that are men, that are straight, maybe they own homes, maybe they're married, they have kids.
00:36:00.740Um, so the, and to make them the bad guys in the American narrative.
00:36:08.820And that's the only thing the Democrats and their colleagues in academia, et cetera, can think of to hold together this diverse coalition.
00:36:18.840So we've seen this enormous increase in, um, in just racist bigotry being expressed in, you know, the pages of the New York times in this century, things that in the past would have been considered rather in poor taste and extremist.
00:36:39.940So the New York times will, you know, has put in a lot of effort in recent years explaining the racist, sexist slur of Karen, uh, this anti-white woman, uh, racist, uh, slur to their, their millions of subscribers so that they know just the right time to use it.
00:37:02.720And they, and they, and they make sure not to use it on any, on a non-white, uh, Karen's and so forth.
00:37:31.380And yeah, the, you know, the New York times is not the failing New York times anymore.
00:37:37.780It's, they've done a very good job of identifying people who will pay to subscribe to have their worldview vindicated over and over again.
00:37:47.920And, and kind of for the times to bury inconvenient facts that don't support their view of the world, you know, in the 27th paragraph or something like that.
00:38:00.000Um, so yeah, you recently had on Jeremy Carl, he's got a new book, The Unprotected Class that documents a great length, just this trend toward ever more, uh, anti-white racism in the respectable press and in media and the democratic speeches and so forth.
00:38:22.640And, you know, I, it's finally starting to, to, to, to backfire on Democrats.
00:38:29.640Uh, people are starting to notice just, just how much awful stuff is said about kind of the core Americans that tend to vote Republican.
00:38:40.980So, I don't know what, I mean, have you, have you, have you been seeing this just over the last 10 years, just huge increases and, and putting down white people?
00:38:53.740It's the, it's one of the defining facts of American society and it's, and it's always perpetrated by people who are simultaneously in the same sentence, giving you a lecture about racism.
00:39:09.120It's like, there's so many, like the contradictions in that sentence are, are so inherent that, um, it's hard to believe anyone could utter it.
00:39:33.660They just sort of sit there and, okay, can't say anything.
00:39:36.700Like why, I don't, why would anyone ever put up with that?
00:39:40.660I mean, white Americans go out of their way.
00:39:43.980They're not, to, to just go, oh yes, I hear what you're saying about how the evils of whiteness and, and my children are children of whiteness and they have oppressed the world.
00:40:05.240And I've actually thought about that and while that may sound like just lowbrow racist bigotry on your part, it actually has a really impressive intellectual heritage going back to the Frankfurt School and Gramsci and updated by, you know,
00:40:30.400in the critical race theory by Marcuse and people will go on and on about, uh, you know, what, what you're saying isn't as moronic as it sounds and hate-filled bigotry.
00:40:45.340It's, it's actually, you're getting this and it all goes back to Marxism or, or Foucault or something like that.
00:40:55.580Um, so yeah, Republicans, whites have been reluctant to, to call out just anti-white racism for what it is.
00:41:07.800But why is, I mean, clearly something is broken inside, right?
00:41:12.300I mean, like, why would you put up with an attack that's inherently unreasonable, right?
00:41:19.340You don't choose your race, therefore you probably shouldn't attack someone on the basis of his race.
00:41:23.400It's totally anti-American as defined by consensus over the last 60 years.
00:41:28.940That's one thing we're not allowed to do and yet it's done at greater scale now than during the Jim Crow period.
00:41:34.140So, like, why would you even consider putting up with that?
00:41:38.480There must be something wrong with you.
00:41:41.220Yeah, Republicans, they, Republicans like, uh, other, other races and good for them.
00:41:54.400And, uh, and yeah, they want, they want to blame the tendency that's been growing, especially in the Black Lives Matter era of the last decade,
00:42:11.640They want to blame it on something old like Marxism.
00:42:16.200Now, this isn't what, uh, African-Americans want to say.
00:42:21.200You know, the, my son's, I, my son's friends on his high school football team, they're not, they're not bigoted racists.
00:42:29.680And the truth is, yeah, a lot of them aren't.
00:42:32.140I mean, a lot, a lot of this stuff is coming out of colleges and so forth.
00:42:36.840It's, it's kind of soft degree majors and so on.
00:42:40.860But, you know, taking, taking claims to have some deep intellectual heritage is naive.
00:42:51.960It's just, it's just people with soft majors who got DEI sinecures and so forth and corporations and colleges, you know,
00:43:02.420and just expressing their, their basic prejudices, their basic bigotry.
00:43:09.100And, you know, we should be laughing at it.
00:43:13.220We shouldn't be taking it that seriously.
00:43:15.180We should be satirizing it and scorning it and making jokes about it.
00:43:19.980And that could well get the message across.
00:43:24.000You may have come to the obvious conclusion that the real debate is not between Republican and Democrat or Socialist and Capitalist, right, left.
00:43:32.300The real battle is between people who are lying on purpose and people who are trying to tell you the truth.
00:44:05.980So can I ask, I think a lot of people assume that when whites, who obviously founded the country, become a minority in the country, their ancestors founded, that it'll stop.
00:45:51.940This kind of antiquarianism is increasing because, I mean, the truth for liberals is the liberals have been pretty much in charge of most things involving race for since the 1960s.
00:46:09.240And they haven't really accomplished that much, so they kind of want to hide their record and focus people on pre-civil rights antiquities, such as Emmett Till.
00:46:24.300Or you constantly hear these days about FDR's redlining of FHA loans in 1938 as the reason that black neighborhoods tend to have lower property values than white neighborhoods or Latino or Asian neighborhoods.
00:46:47.640And, you know, it couldn't have anything to do with current crime rates.
00:46:50.640It couldn't have anything to do with discipline in the local schools.
00:46:55.840It's got to do with the nefarious plot of FDR, you know, in almost 90 years ago.
00:47:22.320You know, there's like these moments in the civil rights era that people are still, as you pointed out, talking about Philadelphia, Mississippi.
00:47:28.780Why does no one ever go back to those places, those physical places, and find out how they're doing?
00:47:42.580Well, yeah, it's, yeah, what then ends up is you then have, you end up getting a long lecture about how the construction of a freeway in 1958 destroyed the booming Black Wall Street of Birmingham or whatever.
00:48:03.140And all sorts of things like, there's a large number of pre-canned excuses.
00:48:12.420But is there any effort to actually improve the lives of Black people that you're aware of?
00:48:17.300I mean, what does improve the lives of Black people?
00:48:20.940Basically, having some law and order, keeping people from carrying guns on the street, that's probably done quite a bit of good.
00:48:32.960Basically, the parts of the country that are run by Republicans tend to have somewhat better performing Black students in schools and so forth.
00:48:48.380For example, Frisco, Texas, a fast-growing exurb of Dallas, has the smallest test score gap of any school district in the country.
00:49:01.120It has the highest, it's about 11% Black and 20% Hispanic, and it has the highest Black and Hispanic test scores in the United States.
00:49:10.760And the smallest white-Black gap in the country.
00:49:15.320And, you know, other places, the great liberal cities like San Francisco and Madison, Wisconsin, tend to have bigger gaps.
00:49:30.860Not just because they have a lot of smart white people living there, but they do a lousier job in San Francisco of educating Blacks because, you know, it's such a liberal, progressive environment that they do a poor job of doing things like having well-disciplined schools and focusing on basics and so forth.
00:49:54.320So, yeah, there's a general, I mean, there's been a general trend toward Blacks who have some choices in life, who are looking to get ahead, looking to do good things for their kids, to be moving to the South, to Texas, to red states, and so forth, where, you know, they can, and away from the highly liberal parts of the country.
00:50:22.260It's not a panacea, but, you know, it does some good at the margin.
00:50:31.420In other words, the graphs that you showed the four years after the Floyd verdict, or Floyd death, if you extended those, if you doubled them, what would they look like?
00:50:45.280We're hopefully past the worst of the racial reckoning.
00:50:49.280What I've noticed in the newspapers was that the front section around a few months before the 2022 election seemed to get the word from maybe the Biden White House that, like, you know, this whole George Floyd racial reckoning thing, that's not going to be a big vote winner in the 2022 midterms, especially in the New York City area.
00:51:25.100What, and then it just sort of disappeared from the serious news part of the paper.
00:51:31.640In the cultural section in the back, you, you know, they never got the memo.
00:51:36.600So there's constantly discussions about how, okay, uh, in a great leap forward for equity at the Art Institute of Chicago, they fired all the nice white lady docents who work for free giving tours of the great artwork so they can hire, uh, people of color to, to then pay them to work there and stuff like that.
00:52:02.780And you kept hearing all those kinds of stories going on much longer about the wonders of the racial reckoning because, you know, they hadn't gotten the message.
00:52:12.860Uh, but yeah, probably the Biden administration, uh, engaging in benign neglect about like, yeah, let's not, uh, persecute police departments quite as hard as we were.
00:52:27.960And, uh, has probably done some good about getting the cops out of the donut shop and actually pulling over, you know, people driving a hundred miles an hour.
00:52:38.080Um, and so yeah, that's, that's made some progress, but it took the, it took the Hispanics while longer to get the, get the word that the cops weren't being proactive.
00:52:51.900And so their car crash and murder rates have gone way up and, you know, it's, it's, even if things are getting better now, they're going to take a number of years to get back to where we were in 2019, much less where we were before Ferguson in 2014.
00:53:10.320You know, the, the death rate is still up like in these deaths of exuberance, like 30 to 40% over 2014.
00:53:18.760And, and, and way up over the, you know, non-black average.
00:53:22.380So the, you know, the obvious question is like, why, and it's been going on a long time.
00:53:27.320Has there ever been a serious effort made in good faith to figure out why rates of violence among, in black areas are so much higher, which they are and have always been, but why?
00:53:40.660Yeah, people, people, people have been studying it, uh, for, uh, the longest time, uh, you know, time magazine ran an article in the late fifties about the biggest worry of big city mayors is the growing problem of black crime.
00:53:58.880Um, uh, you know, at this point cities have done, you know, we, we went through a bunch of phases.
00:54:08.180We liberalized the country in the sixties and the Warren court years, we cut, uh, the imprisonment times and so forth.
00:54:18.340And that, that, that wound up doubling the per capita, uh, murder rate in the sixties and seventies.
00:54:43.940They're, they're all now denounced as these villains who engaged in white flight.
00:54:48.520But you know, like my, my wife's family lived in the, in the Austin neighborhood in the West side of Chicago.
00:54:55.400And they, they, when it started to integrate, they joined a liberal Catholic group and said, okay, we're all going to stick it out and make integration work.
00:55:07.260And we're not going to flee to the suburbs.
00:55:10.560And my in-law stuck, stuck it out three years longer than the rest of the members of the club did.
00:55:17.360But by that point, the number of felonies against their children was piling up.
00:55:21.320And so they finally sold out at a loss of like half of what they could have gotten for their house that they'd sold it three years before.
00:55:36.600They, you know, my, my late father-in-law was the tuba player for the Chicago Lyric Opera.
00:55:43.820So, so he ended up buying a farm 63 miles out of town and then commuting to work to play the tuba in the opera house downtown.
00:55:56.120Yeah, it was kind of a disaster for them.
00:55:58.320And, you know, there's tens of millions of Americans who are still alive who can tell these stories of what actually happened.
00:56:06.080And the media is not that interested in hearing them.
00:56:11.280You know, the media wants to portray these people as the bad guys who, because of their bigotry and not because of all the felonies against their children, you know, moved out to the suburbs.
00:56:24.240Interestingly, right across the street from where my in-laws lived is the municipality of Oak Park, Illinois, a suburb that Ernest Hemingway supposedly said was the land of broad lawns and narrow mines.
00:56:42.920But it's really nice, has all this great Frank Lloyd Wright architecture.
00:56:45.720They actually did something really intelligent and really illegal in the 1970s, which was they put a racial quota on real estate agents.
00:56:57.280It was called the Black a Block Club and said, no, you can't make a huge fast windfall by terrifying everybody into selling right now.
00:57:10.160And because it's the whole block is going to tip black.
00:57:13.280We're going to do this in an orderly fashion and we're going to use a racial quota.
00:57:33.020It's kind of post-apocalyptic looking now.
00:57:35.220And Oak Park looks kind of like this gay utopia for older gay couples who like fixing up beautiful Frank Lloyd Wright houses.
00:57:46.320So, you know, liberals did some things to protect themselves, but they just didn't tell anybody about it.
00:57:54.620Was anyone ever held responsible for any of this?
00:58:01.860You know, if you read the press, yeah, there's been huge condemnation for all the white families that fled crime as that they're engaging in white flight.
00:58:20.680And if their grandchildren move back to the city because the crime has come down a little, then they're engaging in the great crime of gentrification.
00:58:29.440You know, it's, it's kind of can't win, you know, either way you lose, you know, there's all sorts of talk, you know, Mayor Pete in the transportation department's always denouncing racist roads, that building highways was destroying black neighborhoods and so forth.
00:58:53.880You know, we've rewritten the past over and so we don't learn anything from it because we just, we just specify a few important, a few things that fit this narrative that everybody has now.
00:59:15.380I mean, the obvious goal is what they call equity.
00:59:21.100And the term equity is, is one of those words.
00:59:26.800It's not a secret what the DEI people want when they specify equity, what they're talking about when they're talking about equity and generational wealth and so forth is they want your equity in your home and they want to tax it away and take it for as reparations and spend it on themselves.
00:59:47.980And that's, that's kind of the bottom line, whether that'll get carried out, I don't know.
00:59:54.540We've, we've seen reparation programs start to put out checks in super liberal places like Evanston, Illinois, even in California, the idea of handing out huge checks to black people for the, the horrors of living in California.
01:00:47.940Eminent domain cases from a century ago we saw, uh, so if you, if, if you're black and you happen to have a family legend that we used to own this really nice piece of property, but then it got eminently domain to make into a park that that was racist and we should get that property back.
01:01:08.200So, uh, the descendants of a black family in Manhattan beach recently who, uh, Manhattan beach had, had, uh, condemned their property and a few other, and some white neighbors of theirs to build a park.
01:01:24.220And they recently got the city council to declare that that was racist in 1928 and that if it wasn't for this, they no doubt would have held onto the property through the depression, through everything that's happened ever since they would, they would have scrimped and saved to hold onto that land next to the beach, which is now worth $20 million.
01:01:49.720So they got a check for $20 million, uh, for that, uh, you, you'll see, you know, this is a general trend that's, that's speeding up as, uh, uh, you know, plaintiff's attorneys are looking for these old cases.
01:02:06.260And, you know, it's not like they can relitigate the case cause there's nobody alive that remembers, that can testify or anything like that.
01:02:16.100Um, so there'll be, there'll be lots of attempts like that to, you know, basically hand out large amounts of money and, um, and maybe, maybe it won't be called reparations, but, uh, but you'll see this.
01:02:32.420And it's, it's definitely been increasing in the 2020s.
01:02:36.380But doesn't demographic change through be driven by immigration scramble the formula a little bit?
01:02:42.920So you're, I'm 55, you're older than I am by a bit, but we both grew up in a country where, you know, it was white majority black minority and with some were from California, both of us.
01:02:54.360So there was always a Hispanic component, but, um, but I think most Americans sort of thought of it as a white country with a black minority, a mistreated black minority.
01:03:03.060In some cases that was true, but that's not the country that we're in right now.
01:03:09.020And it definitely is not the country we're going to be in in 10 years, which is going to have a Hispanic majority, a white minority, and then a much, much, much smaller black minority.
01:03:17.480So I just wonder if the Hispanic majority is going to be that interested in Emmett Till.
01:03:23.260I mean, that's, yeah, that's definitely a possibility.
01:03:29.920And, and, and the, the establishment is working hard on that to, to inculcate in the public schools that Emmett Till was the most important figure of the 20th century.
01:03:44.360Um, they're, they're, they're working very hard to keep together the democratic coalition of the fringes by pointing at these horrible white men who are the enemy and who also have all the generational wealth and keep your eye on the prize eyes on the prize, which is other people's money.
01:04:23.680We need to get our, our hands on some of this.
01:04:27.180Um, another question might be, you know, how, how big is the African immigration going to, going to be?
01:04:34.440If you look, go to look at the border, there's all sorts of people showing up from Mauritania from all sorts of places, you know, recent years all over the world, uh, fertility rates are plummeting, except they're still way above, uh, uh, reproduction rate in, in most of Africa.
01:04:57.480And, uh, it's not, people know how to get out of Africa.
01:05:03.300Now you get a smartphone, it gives you all the instructions and so forth.
01:05:07.760So, you know, why not move somewhere nicer?
01:05:11.920And, you know, so the, so the country could well be, um, you know, I mean, Europe's getting much more African and probably, and America is too at this point.
01:05:24.480Um, the, the, uh, descendants of American slaves are losing out on their affirmative action and so forth.
01:05:35.100I mean, 20 years ago, um, uh, uh, uh, to, uh, Harvard African American studies professors pointed out that a huge fraction of the affirmative action spots at Harvard seem to be reserved either for foreign elites whose parents are,
01:05:54.260you know, you know, foreign minister of Ghana or something like that, or, or, or have one white parent, or like in the case of the Obama family, it's now a three generation Harvard family, both, uh, privileges.
01:06:10.940And, you know, you know, not many positions at Harvard go to, uh, descendants of American slaves, the way, you know, Michelle Obama is clearly, uh, you know, highly legitimate descendant of American slaves.
01:06:27.060Um, but yeah, that's, we're going to see, we'll see that.
01:06:32.400I mean, American corporations, they want, if, if they have to meet DEI quotas, uh, they tend to prefer, uh, immigrants for the jobs or people maybe who are raised by their white mothers or something like that.
01:06:48.000So, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll see where, where this all leads.
01:07:07.220Well, actually, let me just take a step back.
01:07:09.180You, um, became famous to the extent that you were famous in sort of a Sama's dot kind of way, 2016 for calling that election with some, with some accuracy based on looking at the demographics.
01:07:26.640I mean, that's, that's a kind overstatement, but it's, it's, it's more like in 2000, I became the most outspoken critic.
01:07:38.180Of the new GOP orthodoxy is promulgated by Karl Rove, George W.
01:07:44.720Bush's, uh, Svengali and Rove's theory was that what we need, what the Republicans need is to push through amnesty and much easier immigration.
01:07:59.700And that's what the Latino voters or future Latino voters will, will, they'll love us for that, for bringing in fellow Latinos.
01:08:11.460And then they'll all switch to voting, uh, Republican, especially for the Bush family, which, you know, that, uh, Jeb's son, uh, George P. Bush is half Mexican.
01:08:27.520And so there was a future as the United States and Mexico demographically merge, the Bush dynasty of wasps and Mexicans will carry on as the natural ruling class of, uh, of, um, increasingly mestizo North America.
01:08:45.900Uh, and that's, that wasn't too implausible, but I kept asking questions like, do Mex, do Latinos really care?
01:08:56.780Are you sure they really want all their cousins from back home to be moving in with them?
01:09:06.580Uh, the one close Latino state is Florida and do the Cubans in Florida really care about Mexicans, illegal alien Mexicans?
01:09:18.340And I kept saying, you know, an awful lot of Latinos are in California and that's never going to go Republic again.
01:09:27.380And the others are in Texas in large numbers.
01:09:30.700And if that goes, if that's up for play, then the Republican party's in really big trouble.
01:09:36.220So wouldn't it make more sense looking at the electoral college map to go, well, look, there's all these great lake states, the Rust Belt.
01:09:44.700And one of the things you see there is that the white working class isn't anywhere near as Republican as they are in the South.
01:09:52.980And they're actually really close in the electoral college, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania.
01:10:00.120So why not do things for the white working class in the North and such as, uh, limiting immigration so that, you know, they can continue to be paid pretty well.
01:10:42.080Uh, he, I mean, for his loyalty to the Bush dynasty, I really think George P. Bush, uh, played a huge role in the Bush family's thinking that because Jeb had married into a Mexican family,
01:11:04.980uh, that this gave the Bushes out of all the wasp dynasties in the United States, the greatest chance to exploit, uh, the immigration wave from Latin America and to be the natural rulers of, um, of, um, a Mexicanized population.
01:11:26.320I mean, uh, George H.W. Bush had 10-year-old George P. Bush read the Declaration of Independence at the 1988 Republican convention, which was a big deal because, because, uh, the Democratic candidate had been unenthusiastic about the Pledge of Allegiance and so forth.
01:11:45.180So, you know, um, uh, George H.W. was putting his, what he called his little brown one up there on national television to-
01:12:24.460But, you know, the Republicans weren't, didn't, you know, didn't have a whole lot of people who crunched numbers and spreadsheets.
01:12:32.520So, in the first decade of the century, I spent a lot of time analyzing spreadsheets and so forth of election totals and going, you know, it looks like there's a different path here.
01:12:44.320And it really runs through the North Central region where white working class people vote about 50-50 Republican and Democrat.
01:12:54.820And you can get that up to 55, 60 percent.
01:12:57.700You know, you can, you can win a lot of electoral votes.
01:13:00.720So, did, did Trump, uh, read my 2000 article?
01:13:06.160Nah, but what else was he going to do?
01:13:09.300That was, that was the one path to the presidency.
01:13:13.000You know, it almost worked again in 2020, uh, under pretty adverse circumstances.
01:13:24.260I've got, I've given up making predictions.
01:13:26.500I mean, people, people came along like Nate Silver, who just were so much more interested in predicting elections and worked so much harder at it.
01:13:37.920That was like, eh, I don't have that gambling instinct that, that Nate does.
01:13:42.940And, you know, uh, I'm going to, I'm going to retire from making predictions.
01:13:48.900I'm not, I don't see myself as a great forecaster of the future.
01:13:52.540What I try to be is a historian of the present and notice things that are happening right now.
01:13:59.180So what has happened with Hispanic voters?
01:14:01.900Um, in, in, in Texas, in, in Texas, it definitely seemed like the racial reckoning of 2020 when the, when the Democrats went basically nuts over blacks, alienated quite a few Texas, uh, Latino Democrats.
01:14:25.280Uh, in California, uh, less clear, uh, you know, does it even matter?
01:14:33.420I mean, California is not much of a democracy at this point.
01:15:14.620They've got this whole national narrative and it, it helps keep them together and they provide strong leadership for Hispanics and Hispanics are less, you know, domineering than people were talking about in the past.
01:15:34.000They're, they kind of look around at their upper middle class neighbors and go, Oh, okay.
01:15:59.320I mean, it, it feels anecdotally like a lot of Latin American immigrants like Trump.
01:16:07.600I mean, what, what Trump has done is he's taken the appeal of the Republican party, uh, downscale compared to say Mitt Romney, uh, Mitt did a pretty good job of holding on to suburban upper middle class, the frequent flyer population, uh, corporate executives and things like that.
01:16:30.800They feel one with him, uh, you know, uh, you know, Trump is picking up working class people of all races.
01:16:39.480But, uh, you know, it's, it also is kind of taking, uh, the Republican party, uh, downscale intellectually, uh, you know, you're getting more dumb conspiracy theories out of Republicans, et cetera.
01:16:53.880Um, you know, it's, if, if, if, can the Republicans keep some competent, uh, higher brow people around, you know, that's another question.
01:17:10.860I mean, a big, a big question is how much is this totally a, uh, a hit Trump's personality?
01:17:20.940I mean, you know, 2020, 2024, it looked like Ron DeSantis had like studied Trump and said, okay, Trump's got some interesting new ideas and post Romney ideas.
01:17:35.280And I'm the competent, uh, well-educated guy who reads all the fine print and I can, I can implement some of these.
01:17:43.720And that didn't seem like a bad pitch, uh, but just went, didn't go over at all.
01:17:51.540I, you know, as soon as the Democrats started, started arresting Trump for all sorts of charges, then, you know, that, that helped solve the Democratic nightmare that the Republicans were going to nominate a, a competent 40 something to run against their octogenary incumbent.
01:18:13.720And, and so now we were stuck with a, with a rerun of, of, of 2020.
01:18:18.720So you think that's, that's what it was?
01:18:20.260It was the legal persecution of Trump.
01:18:24.120It seemed like that blunted DeSantis and basically Republicans went back to Trump and went like, well, if the Democrats are going to do that, then we're going to stand by Trump.
01:18:34.920And, uh, you know, if the, you know, the arresting a major candidate is un-American, it's, it's totally shameful in the United States history.
01:18:50.120And the Democrats didn't get in the way and go like, oh, let's, let's not do that.
01:18:55.800They let local politicians, you know, kind of run amok like this New York case.
01:19:03.000And, and so they got the, they got the nominee they wanted, uh, Donald Trump, but now they're, now they're real worried that they're going to get the president.
01:19:48.320Uh, I mean, it, it's, it's a slogan that I took from George Orwell, who said that to, to see what's in front of one's nose takes a constant effort.
01:20:01.640And I'm trying to make it easier for people to notice the realities that they see around them.
01:20:09.400Um, and to, uh, to, to, to understand that what they see with their own lying eyes in their daily life is also actually validated by the best of the social sciences.
01:20:24.740And that there, that there aren't these two different realms of existence, this kind of tawdry sublunary one where we make decisions about what neighborhoods our family should live in.
01:20:40.540And then what's, what are good schools for the kids?
01:20:43.400And then this, this higher, more, uh, the realm of the science.
01:20:50.580The world of data that proves that all those things you notice in your daily life can't possibly be true because then that would be a stereotype.
01:21:00.320And my view is not, it's all connected.
01:21:58.200One thing I used to do was go through the list of, on Wikipedia, prominent people who have died of COVID.
01:22:07.480And the thing I noticed about it was that they were almost all people who were no longer in their primes that, oh, like I saw, like, oh, baseball pitcher, Hall of Famer Tom Seaver has died at age 74 of COVID.
01:22:29.000And then I looked up a little more about him and I was like, well, you know, he probably would have had another good couple of decades going to old timers, games and stuff like that.
01:22:40.000But then it turned out that he dropped out of public life the year before because he had dementia and Parkinson's.
01:22:49.060Yeah, just general, he didn't have a good life ahead of him.
01:22:53.480And so I think that's one of the things that was going on was that COVID was really taking a toll among people who had passed their primes and were toward the last decade of their lives and weren't no longer in the public eye.
01:23:14.720And so that sort of helps explain the thesis that, yeah, there was a lot of COVID deaths, the antithesis that like, you know, it's not like anybody I was like met and I knew at work dropped dead of COVID.
01:23:29.700And then you get the synthesis of like, oh, yeah, it mostly killed off people who were probably close to retirement, retired in ill health from other things and so on.
01:23:47.600So I think what's interesting is the point of social science, to example, there was a point was to bring the principles of science of the scientific method to bear on the world just right around us and to make it clear what we were actually seeing.
01:24:02.380And but it seems like its use at least over the past several years has been to do the opposite, which is to obscure what we're actually seeing, living, experiencing and tell us a story that's not true.
01:24:16.980No, it's I mean, the issue is that so much data has piled up that you can we can now answer quite a few questions that were beyond our capability beforehand.
01:24:31.860I mean, and the answers we keep getting are the political are generally politically incorrect ones that were anticipated by the bad people, the Charles Murray's and James Q Wilson's in the 20th century.
01:24:49.220So, for example, we have an enormous amount of data from DNA that tells us about our racial ancestry and what have we discovered in that in this century?
01:25:03.300Did the conventional wisdom that race does not biologically exist to be proven?
01:25:11.900You can you can call up Ancestry.com or 23andMe and they'll tell you your race to three digits.
01:25:20.820You know, they'll tell you, you know, you know, if you're if you're Jewish, they'll tell you, you know, you're forty nine point eight percent Ashkenazi.
01:25:33.020There's a Harvard economist named Raj Chetty, who's done phenomenal work talking government bureaucracies into letting him work with totally confidential data like like the tax returns of everybody in the country.
01:25:50.160And so he can do studies that nobody had ever had the chutzpah to dream before that they never get the hands on the data.
01:25:59.700So, for example, he gets he tracked twenty one million Americans across 30 years of their lives from he looked at how much money their parents made in the 1990s.
01:26:12.660And then he looked at things like were they in jail on census day, January, April 1st, 19th, 2010, when they were about 30 years old.
01:26:24.320And so then he could plot out what's what are the odds of of a man being in jail based on how poor rich his parents were.
01:26:36.160And not surprisingly, poor poor guys who grew up poor go to jail a lot more.
01:26:42.280But he could also answer using data from the Census Bureau what the race was of all 21 million of his people.
01:26:49.540And he discovered, yeah, in general, blacks who had the exact same income as whites growing up as kids in the 90s in 2010 were in jail three to ten times more often than whites who were their exact peers in terms of family income.
01:27:11.380And this this is like, wow, I never expected somebody to be able to come up with that.
01:27:16.500And it goes, yeah. So when people wonder why are blacks in jail more often, is it is it poverty?
01:27:27.040And poverty plays a role. But even without poverty, you take it all the way at the highest level blacks at the at the highest percentile blacks go to jail about ten times as often as as the richest whites.
01:27:41.040So we're able to answer all sorts of social science questions these days, but nobody likes the answers they're getting.
01:27:52.180Well, it did seem like when we finally unraveled the human genome.
01:27:57.940Which was right around the time the bell curve came out ish.
01:28:06.080What happened at a ceremony that Bill Clinton put on in the presidential Rose Garden in 2000 for the Human Genome Project,
01:28:22.340they just sort of made progress decoding a single genome, which was mostly that of entrepreneur Craig Venter,
01:28:29.720who'd helped out enormously, and Craig got up and made a speech that was exactly what the zeitgeist wanted to hear.
01:28:39.580He said, we've looked at the human genome or his human genome, and we discovered the one thing you can't see in it is race.
01:28:50.080There's no difference whatsoever genetically between different genomes in terms of racial ancestry.
01:29:00.180Well, then within three, four, five years, the evidence was piling up.
01:29:05.560It was like, no, actually, you can tell exactly what the ancestry of people is.
01:29:10.920It became a sizable business very quickly.
01:29:14.160But as far as I can tell, a huge fraction of the population remembers hearing that the science has proven that race doesn't exist genetically,
01:29:27.380and they've never rethought it since that 2000 speech by Venter standing next to Bill Clinton.
01:29:36.240So people want to believe some things.
01:29:41.660They want to believe that the science has proven all of this anti-racist dogmas that they get told,
01:29:49.880and they just sort of ignore that, no, it's actually moving in the other direction.
01:29:54.240It's time that we think realistically about, you know, what the data is telling us.
01:30:02.240And, you know, personally, I don't think it's the end of the world by any means.
01:30:07.600And I think we can all get along pretty well knowing the realities.
01:30:13.660But a lot of people are just terrified of them and basically want to lie about it.
01:30:18.760I mean, the way that previous civilizations held together in the face of knowledge of genetic and racial differences,
01:30:25.480which are obviously real, but they weren't always at war with themselves.
01:30:30.220And one of the ways they did that was by believing in a religious doctrine that said God created everybody.
01:30:36.600Therefore, despite whatever differences we have, we are all of equal value.
01:30:40.660Without that overlay, which we no longer have, how do you keep a society together in the face of these realities?
01:30:47.720Yeah, I mean, the Democrats have been moving toward a sort of Nazi-type solution of having a scapegoat
01:31:03.460who unites everybody else by being the locus of evil, namely whites.
01:31:11.720Or, you know, in the way the Democratic works, it's all sorts of circles within circles.
01:31:17.880So you get more Pokemon points for being non-white.
01:31:21.760You get diversity points for being a woman.
01:31:25.280You get more diversity points if you were born a man, et cetera, et cetera.
01:31:30.640But, yeah, unifying around a scapegoat population, that does not have a good track record.
01:33:07.380But it's also happening at the government level, the census and so forth.
01:33:13.920So the Biden administration just recently announced that they're allowing Middle Easterners and North Africans
01:33:23.640to have their own racial category, M-E-N-A, so that they don't have the unprofitable,
01:33:33.580ignominious fate of having to check white or Caucasian.
01:33:37.520And this has a long tradition in the United States.
01:33:43.200If you go back to in the 1970s, South Asians were classified as white.
01:33:50.100But that really annoyed the South Asian businessmen because East Asian businessmen were getting all sorts of low-interest loans from the SBA as a minority.
01:34:02.000They were getting contracting preferences on government deals.
01:34:06.940And the South Asian organizations got themselves declared to be Asian and grouped in with the Orientals and formed the new Asian group
01:34:25.400so they could get these good deals from the government that white people are not entitled to.
01:34:31.080And so that was an early example of flight from white.
01:34:37.160You see it with the Hispanics increasingly.
01:34:42.840Originally, when the Hispanic category was created, it was set up so Hispanics could get good deals from the government
01:34:50.180and get good affirmative action benefits, but without actually declaring themselves to be racially white
01:34:57.540because a lot of them were kind of took pride in their, they took racist pride in their blue-blooded Spanish heritage and so forth.
01:35:07.400Well, there's an awful lot of that in Latin America.
01:35:09.500So they increased, so they could set up a separate ethnicity for Hispanics
01:35:16.580so you could get all the affirmative action benefits without actually admitting your shame of being white.
01:35:23.640But enough time has gone by that, you know, only your, you know, your Fuentes types anymore are like really publicly white racist from Latin America.
01:35:37.400And, and now it's more prestigious to declare yourself racially.
01:35:43.720I'm Hispanic, even though nobody's exactly sure what that means.
01:35:59.140And, but of course it's a multiracial country, heavily black country as our, as is Cuba, which is Spanish.
01:36:06.300I mean, it's like, I don't understand what, what does the word mean?
01:36:09.120Uh, yes, is, is, is Brazil, are Brazilians and Portuguese included in Hispanics or are they Lusitanics?
01:36:19.440And according to a book I read by David Bernstein, uh, categorized, I believe it was called, uh, law professor.
01:36:30.140He said that most of the federal government will not give you a break on federal contracting.
01:36:37.820If you, if you put down your Brazilian, except the department of transportation, they'll, they'll give you racial preferences for bidding on a highway overpass or something like that.
01:36:49.960If you're Brazilian, they'll, they'll include them in the Hispanics.
01:36:54.080So it's, I mean, we live, we live in a society that's increasingly mixed in terms of ancestry.
01:37:03.160So we have more and more people coming out who are a quarter of this and a quarter of that.
01:37:08.940And there's lots of money on the table.
01:37:13.240And as long as you're not, as long as you don't declare yourself white, you've got all sorts of opportunities to, to get freebies from the government.
01:37:20.600I wonder how long this can go on though, before it just blows up the country.
01:37:23.380I mean, is there any chance of getting back to an, a, a, a race blind posture officially by the, by the federal government?
01:37:31.880I mean, you can have whatever opinions you want on race, but the government, which represents everybody has to treat American citizens equally as citizens.
01:37:40.620I mean, the Supreme Court nominally outlawed affirmative action in colleges, like, because Harvard was clearly, clearly discriminating against Asians.
01:37:51.460Um, on the other hand, um, on the other hand, they left huge loopholes like, oh, well, yeah, you can write about your race in your essay.
01:38:01.940And, uh, you know, the admissions department can then go, oh, this kid is, you know, black, so we'll give him, you know, 50 extra Pokemon points on his application.
01:38:13.840Um, I mean, the, one issue is that the, that Asian students are pulling away so fast from everybody else in terms of things like SAT scores, that the, uh, the Asian black, uh, gaps are opening up so widely.
01:38:33.840That if you go to total colorblind college admissions at the high end, you end up with a campus with very, very few blacks qualifying to get in and a huge number of Asians and places like Harvard really worry about whether they might turn out like Yogi Berra's former favorite restaurant that got so popular that nobody goes there anymore.
01:39:02.100So if, if, if Harvard becomes 56% Asian, are, are Asians going to consider Harvard cool or do Asians want to go to places that there's a lot of white, white people there?
01:39:17.340And, uh, you know, what I don't, what I don't know is whether the, the Asian, uh, rise, the rise in Asian SAT scores is completely legitimate.
01:39:30.800And they just really have been getting so much smarter than everybody else in the 21st century, the Asian test scores are pulling away from the field, like secretariat in the 1973 Belmont or, you know,
01:40:05.980How could anybody text message what was on the test, um, or, you know, just the, the enormous amount of tiger mother, uh, prep that Asians brought with them from their 2000 year old tradition of taking tests to become mandarins and, and doing enormous amounts of test prep for years.
01:40:29.040Or is it, or is it, is it, or there's possible technical reasons that the, the people making the SAT have been criticized for one thing or another for discriminating against blacks and Latinos.
01:40:43.820So they keep doing things like let's get rid of analogies and that'll be fair, but it winds up just benefiting the Asians.
01:40:51.600Most of all, Oh, it, it was more of a, the, when they had analogies, it was, it was harder to memorize apparently.
01:41:01.980And the test prep didn't work as well.
01:41:04.480It took a certain amount of creativity and kind of insight in the brain.
01:41:10.860And, uh, but the university of California demanded getting rid of analogies about 20 years ago.
01:41:18.980So the college board said, yeah, sure.
01:42:03.700It all happened that during COVID and the racial reckoning at once, all the colleges went, well, they had to, they had to cancel some, some SAT tests because they had to be six feet apart and they couldn't fit in the classroom, et cetera.
01:42:18.760Uh, and then, then they all decided that due to the racial reckoning that they weren't going to take SATs.
01:42:25.460And in fact, they're going to make it go totally test optional.
01:42:29.480And the university of California went further.
01:42:31.960They banned the applicants from submitting any kind of test score.
01:42:36.960And then what happened was that the colleges started noticing like, wow, these kids who are showing up that we let in, they're not very bright.
01:42:48.500They are not going to become computer science graduates of MIT.
01:42:54.000So MIT was the first one that went, ah, this was stupid.
01:42:57.520We're going back to demanding, uh, standardized tests.
01:43:26.940Um, having, having this, uh, having a test and having high school grades, you can put them together and they work pretty well.
01:43:35.360Uh, but because, because of the racial gaps that have been around forever and these things, uh, it was decided during the racial reckoning that that absolutely proves as Ibram X.
01:43:48.880Kendi has demonstrated by scientific logic that, um, the only reason some races might be doing better than other races is because of the evil of whiteness.
01:44:03.860But of course, what it turns out is the Asians are doing much, much better.
01:44:08.440And because of the evil of whiteness, uh, because nobody really knows because nobody's that interested in studying it because it sounds like the kind of thing you could get canceled.
01:44:18.880We're finding out and, um, just in general, we have a lot of problems that have been swept under the rug in, in recent years because they don't fit within the ideologies, the, the woke ideologies.
01:44:33.480Um, and just to, to, to think about them is kind of dangerous sounding.
01:44:45.140I mean, my, my father worked for Lockheed from the late thirties to the 1980s.
01:44:50.200And when one of his planes crashed, uh, he'd spend two months on the site because when a plane hits the ground, it spreads out over a mile or so.
01:45:01.380Picking up all the pieces of the plane so they could reassemble it.
01:45:06.660And there's a jigsaw puzzle and figure out why it crashed and also picking up pieces of the pilots and the passengers and so forth.
01:45:14.920And over, you know, the last hundred years, people who were picked because they were smart and hardworking have done a whole lot of good at getting airplanes.
01:45:28.300So they don't crash very much anymore.
01:45:31.820Now, Boeing may be working on reversing a lot of that history, but, uh, yeah, I, you know, we, we got a lot better at things by having systems to find people who were competent and work hard.
01:45:49.080And now the zeitgeist in the 21st century has been moving away from that, uh, will we see a lot of planes crashing?
01:46:00.660But, you know, we, we need to, to, we need to make 180 degree U-turn in terms of what we value, whether it's competence or diversity.
01:46:10.980And, you know, lately diversity has been winning and that's going to get people killed.
01:46:17.040Is there a point, I mean, I'm asking these questions because South Africa, you know, tried this and the country is just continuously degraded for, well, 30 years this year.
01:46:26.200And to the point where there's no electricity in parts at times and the murder rate is among the highest in the world.
01:46:32.220The rape rate is the highest in the world.
01:46:33.680And, but there's no deceleration that I can tell from afar, thousands of miles away, but I'm watching and it's like, no, there's no second guessing.
01:46:41.500It's just like going to ride it right back to the stone age, pretend it was never an advanced society in our country, which is different from South Africa in a lot of ways.
01:46:51.900Will there be a point, like when the planes do crash and the air traffic controllers are just high or too dumb or distract or don't care to keep the planes from crashing?
01:47:04.640Let's just hire viability from now on.
01:47:07.800Well, what we've seen is what we saw with what we talked about earlier, homicides and car crashes, huge increases, and we've seen some pushback against that.
01:47:25.800But, you know, the establishment doesn't really want to talk about why that happened because it's embarrassing for them.
01:47:35.420On the other hand, the airplanes, you know, important people fly a lot more than unimportant people do.
01:47:44.000And that's one reason we have, like, pretty strict rules about who can be a pilot.
01:47:59.060Yeah, so they immediately passed some laws that made it harder to become a pilot.
01:48:07.960And there hasn't been a fatal plane crash of an American airliner since then.
01:48:16.940And, you know, some of it is we just, we got really good pilots these days, in part because congressmen worry about stuff like that.
01:48:24.860But now are we, you know, but on the other hand, the Obama administration came along and basically sabotaged the system for hiring air traffic controllers.
01:48:38.640And Congress had set up a pretty good system for finding good people in the 90s.
01:48:48.260But, yeah, it turned out that it's like white men really like air traffic.
01:48:54.800It's like, you know, what have white men ever done with airplanes since the Wright brothers?
01:48:59.620So there were too many whites, so the Obama administration came up with a totally absurd, corrupt test to hire more black guys.
01:49:11.800And so what happens is then you get fewer people still make it through the training.
01:49:18.900So the training has been kept pretty legitimate.
01:49:21.440So you flunk out more people, which then means that you're under the number of air traffic controllers you expected.
01:49:31.260So you're making them work really long hours and they're getting more and more tired on the job and they're making mistakes and stuff like that.
01:49:39.960And it tracks back to the Obama administration's DEI program for air traffic controllers.
01:49:54.240And we just can't just shut down discussion by saying, are you saying that, you know, a stereotype that on average blacks wouldn't make as good air traffic controllers as whites?
01:50:06.120And the answer is, yeah, yeah, I'm saying that.
01:50:08.380So you expect to have a fewer percentage passing the test.
01:50:28.440So, yeah, there is hope for the country that we can go back and have a philosophy for, you know, for things like jet travel that we consider it as important as the NFL, and therefore we can't have, you know, racial quotas getting in the way.
01:50:51.800So last question, and I sort of began with this, but maybe you've, I just want to push a little more.
01:50:58.680Why do you think that you're able to have these conversations, and when you travel the country talking about your book, you're not attacked?
01:51:06.860And, you know, speaking of good signs, do you take that as a good sign that the country's becoming more open?
01:51:18.160Well, yeah, somebody suggested to me, it's like, well, Steve, you're in the best possible position.
01:51:26.240It's the fourth year of a Democratic president, everybody's sick of Biden, but if Trump gets elected, then there will be an enormous effort on the part of the establishment to crack down on, you know, honest dissident voices that lead to horrible outcomes like Trump getting reelected.
01:51:49.480And if Biden wins, then they'll go, oh, we've got four more years, and we've really got to change things, so we never let Trump win, Trump's type people win again.
01:52:05.820So it could be a short-term thaw, or it could be that enough people have noticed and have been empowered by changes like Elon Musk opening up Twitter so that, you know, I can have 125,000 followers.
01:52:29.020There's just, you know, the accumulation of little changes like that, that, you know, these ideas that I've been propounding for 30 years and have people out there going, yeah, Sailor's ideas, they make sense.
01:52:44.420He's like the most reasonable guy in America.
01:52:46.800Maybe, you know, maybe, you know, we've gone through a watershed and we're beyond the mania of the racial reckoning and the great awokening.
01:53:14.920I mean, all right, let me ask you, why me in particular that I became sort of the Lord Voldemort whose name cannot be mentioned when I'm just, you know, this kind of, to my mind, this very kind of public-spirited, benevolent guy who can see both sides of various problems.
01:53:42.620Well, I've always thought that, I've always thought that you were particularly threatening because you're so obviously moderate by temperament.
01:53:54.080You can smell that on people instantly.
01:53:55.780Secondly, you're very reasonable and you use the language that the left would like to keep for itself, like of science, of reason, of data.
01:54:08.240And you actually argue from that basis and they'd like a monopoly on that.
01:54:14.200And so there's something really threatening about a guy who's like, no, actually, no, here are the numbers and doesn't raise his voice.
01:54:20.000Because that's way more threatening than some guy who's jumping up and down on cable news or, you know, sending crazed tweets all day long.
01:54:29.820That person is, you know, his potential audience is much smaller than yours.
01:54:33.580Your potential audience is like, you know, sort of any open-minded person who'd like to solve a problem.
01:54:52.100Did it bother you when they called you a Nazi or white supremacist or when they threw these slurs at you for so long?
01:54:58.800I mean, I didn't, it seemed ridiculous, but it also didn't seem like, it also seemed like what they want to do is get you into a position where it's like, oh, I'm not one of those horrible people.
01:55:19.020Well, here's, these six guys are the really horrible people and, and get me to condemn people who, you know, get to drive them out of publicity.
01:55:34.220You know, it's kind of the way, you know, you hear liberals talk about, well, the great thing about William F. Buckley was he, he cracked down on Pat Buchanan.
01:55:46.240And, all right, and my, I never met Mr. Buckley.
01:55:51.280You know, I worked for National Review, wrote for National Review in the 90s.
01:55:55.980But I did, I did meet Mr. Buchanan and, you know, Pat was a great guy.
01:56:02.840I mean, I mean, one of my last memories of my father before he died at 95 was Pat sent me one of his new books.
01:56:12.160And he'd gone through and put post-it notes on every page where he quoted me or made a reference to some concept of mine.
01:56:21.480So, I showed it to my dad and he read it.
01:56:24.800He looked through at all the things that Pat had, with his own hand, had said, all the nice things he'd said about me.
01:56:32.140And was like, wow, you're, this is great.
01:56:34.400And, you know, that was like the last thing, last interaction before he died.
01:56:49.960So, I mean, I, I guess it could kind of go either way.
01:56:53.640It depends on who's writing the history.
01:56:55.080I mean, I'd bet, I'd bet money that, you know, Pat Buchanan is described in 50 years when there's not a single living person who actually knew him.
01:57:02.900Um, you know, some sort of monster or hater or something like that.
01:57:09.060I mean, I mean, they say history is written by the winners.
01:57:14.620Uh, my impression is more history is written by historians who got paid by one side or the other, not necessarily the winners, to write the history.
01:57:24.460So, you know, for a hundred years after the Civil War in the United States, the South, which was mostly pretty broke, but they could still scrape together enough money to pay historians to write the story of the lost cause.
01:57:38.720And, uh, so most of our history books were, we're kind of biased in favor of the South.
01:57:44.740Um, you know, what's, how we're going to remember, you know, our time, I don't know.
01:57:53.000Um, but, uh, you know, it, it could go, it, it could change very much.
01:57:59.460And, you know, maybe, maybe we'll have different heroes all of a sudden, you know, that's, that's, maybe you and, you and me will look, come out looking pretty good with this.
01:58:09.980Well, I have trouble believing that, but I, I admire you.