The Private Equity Veterinary Scam Making You Poorer and Killing Your Pets
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Summary
In this episode of the podcast, I sit down with the CEO of Dutch, a pet care company, to talk all things veterinary care. We talk about how expensive it is to get your dog or cat to the vet, why it's so expensive, and why we should all be worried about it.
Transcript
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I don't think I've ever, I probably have, I don't remember.
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I don't think I've ever interviewed an advertiser.
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And so I just want to be clear about why I'm doing this interview.
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So I called you several months ago to ask you if you wanted to advertise on our show
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And we had this conversation that was like so unbelievably interesting.
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So interesting that I haven't stopped thinking about it.
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So that's, I just want to be fully transparent about why I asked you to come.
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Veterinary care, anyone who owns a dog or cat knows a lot about it.
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It's a member of your family and it's getting really, really expensive.
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Why is it so expensive to say, bring your dog in for his shots?
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Just to put a pin on that, veterinary care has grown 2x the rate of inflation.
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So something that was $50 is literally $100 a year later.
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One, there's been a lot of private equity consolidation in this space.
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So, you know, that just means less supply and the demand's only growing.
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The other factor is because it's a cash pay industry, there's really no insurance.
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Veterinarians, and you'll read this in trade magazines, they build their business on production,
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So a third of their revenue is dependent on you getting a blood exam, getting x-ray, etc.
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And I think to be clear, like the rank and file veterinarians are doing this only because
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I think what's happening is it's the few business owners and ultimately, like I said, private
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equity that are simply raising prices for something that you're going to pay for no matter what.
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We, so at Dutch, my company, 50% of our customers say they haven't been to a vet in three years or more.
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People are scared that the moment they enter a vet's office, they have a $500 bill or more.
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So let's just back up and go through these one by one.
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What, so private equity buys the model in general, buys small businesses, independent businesses,
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links them together for efficiencies, for cost savings, right?
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So how many, do you have any sense of how many vets are owned by private equity now?
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I think it's like almost, it's like a third to a half probably.
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In fact, this, there's been, there's like two major companies that are doing it that there
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was a lawsuit that they're creating a monopoly that, that's, that's, that was going around.
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And they'll just, they'll, and they're doing this with dentists as well.
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And HVAC and like basically every small business in America.
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And, and they'll buy just a whole bunch of them.
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Well, the care gets worse because you're no longer bringing the, they're doing nothing.
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I don't want to like say nothing, but there's really no like modernization of equipment or
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Um, and then when it sucks, it's like super unfair.
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Well, I mean, I, you know, I'm willing to believe there are examples of private equity doing what
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it says it does, which is, you know, to come in and make the business better, better for
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its customers, better for its owners, better for its employees.
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I've never seen that ever in any sector, but I, I believe there must be some time where that
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My old veterinarian, I switched to, and I asked for my, um, which is owned by private equity.
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I mean, there's no way that there's anything that you could ever find what's there.
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So I don't believe, I've not seen any sort of better care for pets as a result at all.
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Um, but greater returns for the investors in private for the, yep.
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So how do they, can you be specific about how they raise the prices?
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You suggested there's an incentive for veterinary offices to hike the price of annual exams and
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Annual exams, but they'll sell you more stuff too.
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So they'll say, you know what, your dog needs teeth cleaning.
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And so we need to put them under anesthesia and that's going to be like a $5,000 bill for
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I've had a lot of dogs, dozens and dozens of dogs.
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And I don't think I've ever had a dog's teeth cleaned.
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And the thing is you're there and you feel horrible because you only want to do what's
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But what happens is they have a list of all the services they want to sell to you and
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And you feel horrible that you even have to think about the decision.
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But you're, and, but it's like, that's a lot of money and not, I mean, most people don't
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Putting your dog under anesthesia is not a small thing.
00:07:02.380
So I think what happens is it's the list of services that they'll try to sell you and
00:07:07.540
make you feel horrible that you don't care about your dog if you don't buy from this
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And so they, they have a lot of power when they're upselling.
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Do you, it seems like the incentives would produce like actually bad outcomes where your
00:07:42.180
dog or cat is getting treatments they don't need.
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Well, I think what happens is people just stop going to the vet at all.
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That, I mean, that's what we've seen is that there's just a whole, there's tens of millions
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And it's because they don't want to, they don't want to feel bad for not buying extra
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There are a lot of shots and they're very expensive.
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Definitely there's vaccines, but even vaccines like you should, I mean, as we have a Dutch
00:08:24.420
try to kind of, so telemedicine can do vaccines, but there's definitely lower cost clinics that
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will do vaccines for $50, whereas in person, it'll cost you $150 to $200 for the same thing.
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Well, they'll say, well, I have to pay for rent and I have to pay for stat.
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I mean, they'll say there's like all this upkeep that the shot, you know, includes, but it's
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It's obvious that goes back to private equity, raising prices and knowing the people, there's
00:09:05.040
So the profile of the vets that I've dealt with in the past 20 years, it really, really
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I feel like there are really a lot of dog lovers.
00:09:16.020
Not all you get hard cases among vets, but most vets I know just really love animals.
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So what's interesting is that when it comes to just Dutch and telemedicine, we get hundreds
00:12:21.520
of applications from people who want to do telemedicine.
00:12:26.460
And actually, to this point that it's female, telemedicine allows them to have a work-from-home
00:12:33.760
The main industry association, the AVMA, has basically made these vets feel that if
00:12:43.380
they do telemedicine, the FBI will show up at their house.
00:12:47.020
It has scared them to death from doing telemedicine.
00:12:51.940
And it's because it's, again, it's comprised of these self-serving, financially interested
00:12:59.800
But they have completely scared veterinarians from doing telemedicine whatsoever.
00:13:11.420
What they'll say, and again, like, I think this is why I want your listeners to know this.
00:13:18.180
They will say that the federal law requires you to have a physical exam, no matter what.
00:13:26.960
Like, no matter if it's an opinion, it's a rash, it's a quick question, they'll say that
00:13:35.440
the FDA website requires a physical exam, which it doesn't.
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But in every conference, in every newsletter, they'll say, oh, well, we asked the FDA and
00:13:53.580
That's what they'll say at every conference for years now.
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And they'll vilify me and Dutch, and they'll say, this guy is going to hurt your dog.
00:14:04.240
If there's telemedicine, millions of dogs will die, is the headline.
00:14:19.220
I mean, it really, yeah, millions of dogs will die.
00:14:25.900
Well, again, so this is what they'll say at a conference.
00:14:30.180
What I've been doing now is I've been working with the ASPCA and a huge coalition of shelter
00:14:37.360
organizations because they're the ones that get the brunt of it.
00:14:42.280
Because now millions of dogs actually also get surrendered because their owners can't care
00:15:02.380
So the only way this can change is at the state level.
00:15:12.540
So in Florida, it took us four legislative sessions to allow telemedicine.
00:15:17.080
And all it does is all the law will say is that the veterinarian can use their judgment
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But may I just ask you a foundational question?
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Why is the state involved in what kind of medical care you give your dog?
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Just because health care is regulated at the state level.
00:15:38.720
It's so weird that they feel like some state legislator feels like he has more power over
00:15:45.820
your dog who sleeps in your bed, who's your dog, than you do.
00:15:55.860
But actually, I will tell you this, most legislators, once we tell them that this is a law that you
00:16:04.840
need to help us with, most of them are completely on board.
00:16:13.880
Like, a lot of them will say, I didn't even know this was an...
00:16:17.060
Like you said, I didn't even know this was an issue.
00:16:19.380
So, where it doesn't work is when the AVMA or a lot of these state lobby groups who have
00:16:29.660
hundreds of millions of dollars in annual budgets, if they've lined a politician's pocket,
00:16:36.300
then that's where we will have trouble in those states.
00:16:45.920
We only pay attention to a couple of them, but there are so many.
00:16:49.860
So, can you just quickly tell me how that works?
00:16:52.480
So, the AVMA is the American Veterinary Medicine Association.
00:16:58.660
And why do they have an interest in preventing telehealth for animals?
00:17:04.000
There's one reason that they'll say, and then there's one reason that they'll say behind
00:17:09.160
So, what they'll say in public is that they'll say telemedicine is going to harm dogs, lead
00:17:19.040
But what they'll say at the hearing behind closed doors, it's purely financial.
00:17:24.900
They think that it's an either or choice, that if you have telemedicine, people will no longer
00:17:30.060
go to the vet and their brick and mortar business is going to die.
00:17:41.480
Most regulation exists to preserve existing monopolies.
00:18:00.140
Well, so if people aren't even bringing their dogs to the vet because it's too expensive,
00:18:08.940
And you will have these people say that they will prefer that than, they'll prefer the status
00:18:17.200
The industry association will say they'll prefer the status quo than allow telemedicine.
00:18:25.940
It's not like, oh, I have a video call and now I no longer get vaccines at the vet.
00:18:34.880
You know, like we have, again, human health care.
00:18:37.900
We still go to our brick and mortar, annual checkup, whatever.
00:18:43.600
And then if we have an issue at night, we don't have to go to emergency.
00:18:47.560
Yeah, if you've got porcupine quills in your dog's throat or, you know, cuts his leg on
00:18:54.940
But if he has a rash and you just want to know, like, is it like, what is this?
00:19:00.640
Why do you have to go to urgent care when you can just show, again, the dogs in the comfort
00:19:06.160
of their home and you use your phone and show a video of their paw?
00:19:14.640
And for example, we get porcupine quills on our dogs all the time, a lot.
00:19:19.120
And I wish I could say my dogs are smart enough not to try and eat porcupines, but they're
00:19:24.840
And every year I have to take the quills out, which is, it takes like four hours.
00:19:30.640
But I do it myself because, well, because I know how, but also because my dogs don't like
00:19:36.580
And it smells like death and they can smell it.
00:19:41.480
And so we do everything we can to prevent physical visits because the dogs are panicked.
00:19:59.020
So anything as someone, if you love animals, you want to, you want care for them, of course,
00:20:04.860
but you want to keep them out of the physical space if you can.
00:20:11.240
Um, one of the things we see a lot is behavior and anxiety cases, and that's even more so
00:20:19.980
of why they should be treated from home because the dog is in their natural environment.
00:20:25.780
You're only making their situation worse by forcing them to this place they don't like.
00:20:32.240
And then a lot of the behavior modification that happens, telemedicine is perfect for that
00:20:38.200
because you can have these regular conversations and for a fraction of the price.
00:20:44.980
Just to give you context, it's less than $100 for a year of care.
00:20:52.780
If you went every month, you'd pay a hundred bucks a month.
00:21:00.780
Uh, and oftentimes when you have anxiety, you kind of need to have those regular check-ins.
00:21:07.160
And we had a story recently of, of this guy who had an aggressive dog.
00:21:11.860
He's been on Dutch for two years and the dog went from crazy aggressive to now he has two
00:21:23.620
And there's no way in the world this, uh, owner could have had the money or the time
00:21:30.240
if Dutch wasn't around to change this dog's life.
00:21:36.140
And if you have a dog who bites, I've had a few, uh, it's very disruptive and you know,
00:21:42.100
the dog can get killed by the way, you know, dogs like that either get put down by the state
00:21:52.700
Actually, we're talking about this morning at breakfast.
00:21:54.320
You don't need to be an economist to see what's happening.
00:22:00.720
So we have to respond appropriately in ways to protect our families.
00:22:04.060
When paper money dies, it's going to be replaced by programmable digital currency or gold.
00:22:10.640
The same Americans who think they're protecting themselves with gold are the ones getting ripped
00:22:15.320
After we left corporate media, we got offered tens of millions of dollars to promote gold
00:22:19.480
How do they get the money to spend that much on marketing?
00:22:23.920
So we sought an honest broker and together we formed a precious metals company that you
00:22:30.180
At battalionmetals.com, we publish actual spot prices.
00:22:34.960
We're totally transparent about the VIG, what we take, and we treat everyone with honesty.
00:22:40.760
So if you've been watching what's happening, you know it's not just about money.
00:22:43.100
It's about sovereignty and holding something that endures and cannot be manipulated or taken
00:22:47.580
So if you've been waiting for the right time to act, this is it.
00:23:03.760
So with Dutch, you go to Dutch.com, you sign up.
00:23:12.900
So for a year, you can call a vet for up to five pets.
00:23:22.380
So, you know, most appointments, by the way, are happening at night when even if you have
00:23:35.200
You talk to a local vet in your state and they'll, you know, you're talking to a professional
00:23:44.620
You always talk to a veterinarian, a human being, and 90% of the time, and we've been doing
00:23:51.060
this now for five years, 90% of the time they're able to address the issue over video.
00:23:59.740
And so does that include vaccines or what does that include?
00:24:07.680
So vaccines you have to do in person and we'll recommend a local clinic if that's what you
00:24:13.440
But if you, if you need medication, we have pharmacy partners who can ship that to you.
00:24:22.500
Um, but it includes kind of any of the follow-up messages, chats with a vet.
00:24:28.240
So you don't feel like you're nickel and dimed.
00:24:30.200
If I have another question or if I have to follow up a week later.
00:24:34.160
Um, the other thing that's cool about digital first is that everything is documented.
00:24:40.580
So we know automatically when we should follow up for each condition or we know that a veterinary
00:24:51.360
Like we have, um, goals, a veterinary needs to respond within a matter of hours, um, back
00:24:59.540
to the patient if there's a message during the business day.
00:25:02.100
So we can also like really monitor quality metrics to make sure that customers are having a good
00:25:10.060
It's nationwide, but there are about 20 states that don't allow telemedicine.
00:25:29.440
Um, some of the biggest ones like Texas, which is crazy because California allows it, but Texas
00:25:40.000
And, um, we actually had a huge bill this year that literally got killed, um, by the AVMA.
00:25:53.140
So it's, you are not allowed to do, so is there like an underground telehealth?
00:25:58.840
Like, why don't you just ignore the law and do it anyway?
00:26:03.000
Well, so there's actually on, in Texas, there's a court case that is now at the Supreme Court
00:26:10.940
where the veterinarian said, well, I'm, it's freedom of speech.
00:26:15.940
I'm just like telling people what, like how their pets, you know, um, this is my freedom
00:26:24.320
So the Fifth Circuit, which is Texas, Louisiana, Missouri, has ruled in his favor, but the
00:26:31.620
attorney general has filed this, um, as an appeal at the Supreme Court currently.
00:26:46.300
So right now it is illegal for anyone in Texas to call a vet on the phone and just get healthcare
00:26:57.700
Now there's always, so there's two paths in Texas.
00:27:02.740
There's any state allows, has an emergency provision if it's a life or death situation.
00:27:09.140
And then in Texas, again, there's this Fifth Circuit decision that's currently, so there's
00:27:16.480
like, there's sort of this competing situation in Texas where on the one hand, the Fifth Circuit
00:27:21.340
says telemedicine is allowed, but the state regulations still say that it's not allowed.
00:27:27.980
I'm pretty sure I could just call up and get like very serious drugs prescribed through
00:27:34.460
Like very serious, fully addictive benzodiazepines, for example.
00:27:40.680
I mean, this is like way more, way more addictive than heroin.
00:27:48.960
But that's totally fine to get that from telehealth or amphetamines.
00:27:56.300
You know, you get whatever you want now, but your dog can't get treatment.
00:28:00.220
Yeah, that's not, it's, it's definitely unfair.
00:28:10.540
So we've changed the laws in Florida, Arizona, Ohio, in a number of states.
00:28:16.540
And, um, this upcoming legislative session, we're lobbying in 12 different states, but
00:28:25.140
I'm sure your listeners live in a lot of those states.
00:28:28.020
And, uh, one of the things we did as we launched this website called savepuppies.com.
00:28:41.500
I mean, if they're saying millions of dogs will die, you should, you know, you're fighting
00:28:51.980
And so, you know, you can go there and, uh, send a letter to your local legislator.
00:28:57.000
That's the only way that things will change is at the grassroots level because we don't
00:29:01.660
have the crazy budget that these trade groups have.
00:29:06.240
Can I ask you, what is the AVMA think of private equity scooping up all the independent
00:29:13.220
They're associated, I think they're associated with it.
00:29:20.720
Prices going up, care declining, that they're totally fine with that.
00:29:29.620
So I think, again, there's two things, what they'll say publicly versus what happens behind
00:29:36.340
And I've read, I mean, it's like we live in two different worlds because what they'll
00:29:42.920
say is, like, for example, one reason prices are going up is there's also not a
00:29:48.080
massive vet shortages because the veterinary profession has one of the biggest dropout
00:29:55.440
And they'll say, and this is just factually true if you follow BLS, Bureau of Labor Statistics.
00:30:12.280
And there's like data that shows that they'll say, no, prices are not going up.
00:30:16.700
So a lot of times when you talk to them, the surveys they put out make are completely nonsensical.
00:30:27.820
And there's this bottleneck in veterinary school.
00:30:37.740
And I think I just, again, I'm here because like you shine a light on things.
00:30:42.480
Well, I care about this topic because I think the relationship between people and
00:30:52.180
So they, the AVMA controls accreditation for veterinary colleges.
00:31:00.900
Like this happens in no other, like law schools don't have a trade association decide like
00:31:09.680
In this industry, the AVMA controls what is deemed a vet school.
00:31:21.900
So private equity decides whether you get to be a vet or not.
00:31:24.900
I mean, in effect, if private equity is the single biggest player in this industry, that's
00:31:33.740
It goes back to when you have less supply, you can charge more and because people are willing
00:31:42.120
So they have an incentive to reduce the number of new veterinarians coming out of school every
00:31:49.500
It's like, I hate to draw that line, but I think that's what's happening.
00:31:53.660
Well, if it's about money, then it's supply and demand because that's what the market is.
00:31:57.400
And so the fewer vets you have, the higher the prices.
00:32:01.680
It, it like makes, I've, you know, and again, I'm, I think I'm a curious person and I try
00:32:08.620
to like understand, like, could it be something else?
00:32:13.000
Like, why would this, if you have high attrition, you have prices going up, you would think that
00:32:19.180
the way to solve that is to have more veterinarians and that's just not what they're doing.
00:32:26.780
They've like, literally, I, at this point, know several vet schools that have just stopped
00:32:31.740
developments, you know, gave up because the AVMA basically told them that they're not going
00:32:41.860
Because there are very, relatively few colleges that turn out veterinarians.
00:32:48.640
Like, just think, I can tell you this statistic.
00:32:51.860
There's about one veterinarian for every 3,000 pets in America.
00:32:58.160
For context, the ratio in human healthcare is one to 20.
00:33:04.900
The disparity is so huge and the amount of vet schools is so little.
00:33:12.260
Like, we can, we can have a, you know, dozens of vet schools pop up and it would still maybe
00:33:19.920
And like I said, this trader organization is refusing to launch any new schools.
00:33:31.180
And what's crazy is I feel like then this gaslighting happens where I'm painted as the
00:33:38.540
And they'll say, this guy, Joe, or Dutch, you know, he's just self-interested.
00:33:44.540
He just wants, you know, he's the one that wants your money.
00:33:47.420
And I'm like, how is that possible when I'm like reducing the cost?
00:33:54.500
Well, it wasn't that long ago that many Americans thought they were inherently safe from the
00:33:57.920
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So prior to Dutch, I was one of the co-founders of HIMS and HERS.
00:35:47.540
And so I helped start that telemedicine journey.
00:35:54.760
we'd have to go back to my experience coming to America
00:35:58.680
and just always, as an immigrant, having to figure things out.
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When we, my family and I immigrated from the Soviet Union,
00:36:14.800
Former, a current separate country at this point.
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You know, it's, it's very, it's Muslim majority, but it, I would say secular.
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And I actually didn't even know Jews and Muslims are supposed to not get along.
00:36:49.560
Um, that's been true, by the way, I just say, factually, that has been true in various parts
00:36:56.860
You know, not always, of course, there are huge problems, but then other places, there
00:37:03.060
Um, so it was, you know, we, we, you know, I mean, I, I, I had a good childhood.
00:37:11.420
We left everything, uh, behind because my dad was, uh, almost thrown into a labor camp
00:37:18.260
for having an illegal book, which is just like a regular, I'm sure it's probably maybe
00:37:30.580
And it's just a book about fighting for freedom.
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I think it's a concept they didn't want you to know about.
00:37:37.820
And we fled, we fled with, I had a hundred bucks, uh, and a red suitcase and we left,
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lived in Italy in a refugee camp for several months, uh, eventually got political asylum
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to come to the United States and then, you know, lived in low income housing for a long
00:38:05.120
First, my dad definitely told us, uh, that we have to assimilate, that we have to learn
00:38:15.240
He himself, he was a civil engineer and I saw him at first work in flea markets, just doing
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And I think it showed me that he would do anything for his family to have a meal on the table.
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And I think later in life, it showed me, you know, no one's too good to take out the
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And, uh, and, uh, and just the value of a dollar, I still, I think, you know, I want to make
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sure my kids have that, but I still think, and I think back to this business, I think
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that's why when I see things that are so expensive for people, I feel it in my bones because I still
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know what it's like to not have any money, to make difficult decisions, um, when you only
00:39:12.720
He, um, got trained, um, education and, and he found a mentor who took him under his wing.
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And with that said, there's not much that they knew about America.
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And so I, I knew that they would love me, but a lot of times I had to figure everything
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And I think all of these things taught me to be a survivor, taught me to make something
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Um, and kind of that's, that's led me, that led me to hymns and ultimately that led me to
00:40:10.900
Um, so I always definitely grew up with animals, uh, German shepherd.
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Um, so we had animals up until I was 10 and then we lived in apartment, tiny, tiny apartments.
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And so then we got finally, when I had a family and we had a house we got, so that's when we
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got my, uh, Corgi and that's kind of how it all happened because I was coming off hymns.
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I always like smaller companies and when I can actually still create something.
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And then we got a Corgi and started to see the vet bills.
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And then the kicker was, he got into a trail mix and then we had a $2,000 vet bill.
00:41:15.980
No, but the thing is, and that's the thing, is then I was talking to a veterinarian friend
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and he said, like, you really didn't have to do, you didn't have to like pump his stomach
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And I, so then that's kind of how I started to look around.
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Like, are there any, like, could I have done something else?
00:41:40.540
So can I just pause and say, I love how, even if they're misguided, I love how devoted
00:41:54.120
And, but it, and, and so I think that's when I realized there's really no like other option
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when it comes to, there's no telemedicine options that I saw.
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And it, and it goes back to that a lot of times it has to do with the laws, but look, I'm
00:42:11.020
the guy who I figured when him started, it was actually a similar situation.
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Back five years ago, telemedicine wasn't legal on the human side either.
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Like we forget that because it's now so commonplace, but it was also the same thing.
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And I, and I helped change those laws back then.
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I think that's kind of why some of these groups are scared of me is because this guy comes
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from a place where like, he has nothing to lose.
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He's only doing, I mean, also, I think it's because I'm doing the right thing.
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So I think that kind of gives me more confidence that I can do it again.
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And I don't think that's because before this, so before Dutch came on the scene, what the
00:43:00.460
shelter groups, for example, that wanted telemedicine, what they were doing is talking to the state
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veterinary boards, because that's how the, that's a, that's a simpler way that this could
00:43:12.400
If the veterinary board at the state, they could just say, if you want to do telemedicine,
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do telemedicine, if it's medically appropriate, it could be as simple as that.
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And so for over 10 years, they were having these conversations.
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And so that's when I got here and I'm like, this is doing nothing.
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It's so revealing, however, I mean, again, I think they're probably good people with good
00:43:39.360
There always are in these systems, but the system itself is so distorted that they don't
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What's, if, if you're a veterinary board, the health of animals, that's why you exist.
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But it doesn't seem like they're thinking that way.
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Well, again, what they'll say is we are thinking of the pets.
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We think millions of dogs will die with telemedicine.
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They'll, well, let me tell you, if some of these examples I've seen, they'll say,
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like, I'll say the example I used, anxiety, like I'll say, isn't that great for telemedicine?
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The dog is in the comfort of their home and you can, they'll say, well, what if the dog
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You know, if the dog ate a nail, I've been in hearings where this example has happened.
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Well, if the dog ate a nail, look, maybe that he's barking because he had a nail and he's
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And so that's why we shouldn't have, it's like, are there nails on your house?
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Like, why, why are we going to use this crazy made up example to deny millions of dogs from
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And if your dog ate a nail, there's still no good reason why you shouldn't start with
00:45:05.080
The vet will walk you through it and then you'll know, do I go to ER or not?
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It's not, it doesn't have to be an either or situation.
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We had a family dog who ate a pin recently, a needle, you know, a sewing needle.
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And, you know, obviously that's a brick and mortar situation.
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The dog passed it without any problems, which is kind of, the canine digestive tract is a
00:45:30.340
All kinds of things, mops, pine cones, sewing needles emerge from it.
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But, um, that it still would have been worth calling initially.
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It takes, before Dutch, um, there's a, uh, a poison hotline that's like $75 just for that
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And you don't even know who, who you're going to get.
00:45:58.540
And that's what people do because again, if that's what you need to do, that's what you'll
00:46:03.040
But there's definitely ways to talk to a human being veterinarian very quickly, even that
00:46:10.800
for much less and definitely much less than having to spend a thousand dollars in ER.
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I had a case where my dog, I thought he was having a seizure and I really, I mean,
00:46:24.540
I really freaked out and I got on Dutch and the vet says he's doing a reverse sneezing.
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And she showed me videos of a reverse sneezing and it looked exactly like what he was going
00:46:46.140
And like I said, I was literally about to grab him, drive to ER and she totally calmed
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me down and, and made me realize it was completely right.
00:47:03.780
We had a dog, um, eat hallucinogenic mushrooms in the woods.
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The dog has been tripping ever since those four years ago.
00:47:13.860
Um, wonderful dog woke up with the dog this morning.
00:47:16.480
Um, but in both cases, um, there really was no treatment at all.
00:47:22.380
And in both cases, those dogs were bundled up and taken to the vet, which did not, not
00:47:28.120
I'm not against the vet to be clear, but it didn't help at all because it's just, there's
00:47:35.740
And I think telemedicine is just a part of the overall experience.
00:47:39.660
I don't think anyone's going to say it needs to replace the, and, and, and it won't happen
00:47:44.960
because it hasn't happened in human care, but I think it's another option for people
00:47:49.740
to get a peace of mind and to have an option that's way more affordable.
00:47:56.220
And we are seeing so many dogs, like I said, being given up or people who are saying, I don't
00:48:05.380
Well, that's a tragedy, especially people with children need to have dogs.
00:48:10.500
It's been, yeah, for us, my kids are little Eddie, the Corgi.
00:48:20.540
Can I also say it's really good for your immune system to be around dogs?
00:48:27.980
When our first child, who's 31, came home from the hospital after being born, both of
00:48:34.280
our dogs, our spaniel jumped up and licked the dog, licked the child in the mouth.
00:48:41.380
I think it definitely, I feel like I've seen stuff that.
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We've always, since I was born, we've always, my family's always been committed to that.
00:48:51.500
Like you've got to have a lot of dogs around and you stay healthy and everyone's been really
00:48:57.940
So again, I feel a little weird interviewing you because you've advertised on our show and
00:49:03.440
all that, but I just, I just felt it so strongly.
00:49:08.640
And I think there are a lot of viewers of this who would agree.
00:49:15.380
Well, I think when you first called me, it was, hey, I like dogs.
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And I think I already, I was like, Tucker's got to know this conspiracy that's happening
00:49:31.880
And so few people kind of, like I said, know how monopolistic it is.
00:49:38.700
And I thought that your listeners and you could help us because I think we're the Goliath in
00:49:50.220
And it needs people to understand how crazy the situation is for both for veterinarians,
00:49:58.740
who, like I said, feel scared to do telemedicine, as well as for pet owners who can't afford it.
00:50:05.280
And it all has to do with these trade associations who are keeping and using their monopoly power
00:50:16.220
So I think that whole part, you had no idea what's going on.
00:50:21.680
And again, for us at this age, you know, I don't, it's the cost is not the main barrier for us.
00:50:31.840
It's just so much suffering for the dogs to go to the vet.
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But if we can avoid that, we would just be so thankful to avoid it.
00:50:46.860
Well, I'm sure I'll be attacked for insider dealing, but it's not.
00:50:50.360
I think you'd advertise with us no matter what, but I just wanted you to be able to say all