The Tucker Carlson Show - Tucker Carlson and Russ Vought Break Down DOGE and All of Trump’s Cabinet Picks So Far

00:00:00.000 This podcast is brought to you by Humber River Health Foundation.

00:00:03.680 From the discovery of insulin in 1921 to the promise of universal health care in 1966,

00:00:09.500 Canadians have always made health care our mission.

00:00:12.340 Now we face our biggest challenge yet, a cure for health care.

00:00:15.940 Reduced wait times, safer patients, advancements in technology, the end of hallway medicine.

00:00:21.800 We're finding it all here at Humber River Health.

00:00:24.420 Help us innovate to keep health care alive.

00:00:27.180 Donate at healthcarelives.ca.

00:00:30.000 So you ran OMB before, and you don't have to comment on this.

00:00:35.080 It sounds like you are very likely to run OMB again.

00:00:38.760 Tell us what OMB is for those who aren't from Washington, what it does and what you would do with it.

00:00:47.160 So OMB is the nerve center of the federal government, particularly the executive branch.

00:00:51.920 So it has the ability to turn on and off any spending within the Office of Management and Budget.

00:00:57.540 Office of Management and Budget has the ability to turn off the spending that's going on at the agencies.

00:01:02.260 It has all the regulations coming through it to assess whether it's good or bad or too expensive or could be done a different way or what does the president think.

00:01:12.100 And then all of government execution.

00:01:14.640 So anytime you have cabinet executive branches conflicting with each other or working together on something, for instance, you know, the wall.

00:01:23.400 The president wanted to fund the wall.

00:01:24.800 We at OMB gave him a plan to be able to go and fund the wall through money that was the Department of Defense and to use that because Congress wouldn't give him the ordinary money at the Department of Homeland Security.

00:01:37.720 So it really is presidents use OMB to tame the bureaucracy, the administrative state.

00:01:56.120 Welcome to Tucker Carlson Show.

00:01:58.000 We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else.

00:02:02.100 And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers.

00:02:05.160 We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly.

00:02:10.380 Check out all of our content at tuckercarlson.com.

00:02:13.620 Here's the episode.

00:02:14.740 It was really pioneered, honestly, by FDR.

00:02:18.500 And then President Nixon also was really learning from FDR on how to use it to tame the bureaucracy.

00:02:25.800 And we would have seen that.

00:02:26.660 Did he create the office, Roosevelt?

00:02:28.680 The office was formerly the Bureau of the Budget for the last hundred years, right?

00:02:33.960 And then Nixon renames it Office of Management and Budget.

00:02:38.140 And it becomes kind of more of a statutory thing, reporting directly to the president, no longer within Treasury.

00:02:45.620 And so since then, you've had it still there, still really important, viewed by the country largely as a budget cutting exercise.

00:02:57.500 But it is the president's most important tool to dealing with the bureaucracy and administrative state.

00:03:04.900 And, you know, the nice thing about President Trump is he knows that and he knows how to use it effectively.

00:03:10.360 So you can't get any of your domestic policy done without OMB, it sounds like.

00:03:16.000 No.

00:03:16.620 You will be in a situation where you will have, at best, really awesome cabinet secretaries who are dealing on, sitting on top of massive bureaucracies that largely don't do what they tell them to do.

00:03:30.220 And you have to have statutory tools at your disposal that force that bureaucracy from the White House to get in line.

00:03:39.060 And that is really the main thing that OMB can accomplish in addition to what everyone would think of from a budget office, which is, yeah, you cut spending, you figure out how to deal with your fiscal finances and all of that.

00:03:52.480 You're making me anxious.

00:03:53.540 I mean, I can't handle a disobedient dog.

00:03:56.480 I can't imagine what a disobedient federal agency looks like.

00:03:59.760 How how resistant are they to democracy?

00:04:02.940 They're incredibly resistant.

00:04:05.120 I mean, think about Ukraine and the president in that first term wanted to cut off funding for Ukraine.

00:04:13.100 Why?

00:04:13.380 Because it's a corrupt country and we didn't know how it was going to be spent.

00:04:16.620 It's totally normal policy process to go through that the people lost their minds about.

00:04:21.480 But the bureaucracy was literally just ignoring it.

00:04:25.120 And quite frankly, his political appointees, like John Bolton, were ignoring him as well.

00:04:30.380 And what we then did at OMB was I had been personally told, look, you know, I want the money cut off until we can figure out where it's going.

00:04:37.920 And we cut the money off.

00:04:39.360 And it was like all hell broke loose within the bureaucracy.

00:04:42.960 Well, he got impeached.

00:04:43.780 Yeah.

00:04:43.980 And so you have the ability at that point to bring them to come to heel and to do what the president has been telling them to do.

00:04:54.980 And we can do that in foreign aid.

00:04:56.540 We can do that in all sorts of places.

00:04:57.840 It's kind of crazy.

00:04:58.880 I mean, everything you're saying I'm familiar with.

00:05:01.300 But if you think about it, that's the end of democracy.

00:05:05.140 Because the only authority in the executive branch comes from the president and the vice president, also elected.

00:05:10.120 But it comes from voters as expressed through elections.

00:05:13.700 So bureaucrats in the federal agency and appointees in the federal agency have no authority to act independently.

00:05:20.720 That I'm under our constitution, do they?

00:05:22.340 No.

00:05:22.980 And this is really – the left has innovated over 100 years to create this fourth branch of an administrative state.

00:05:29.940 You and I might call it the regime.

00:05:31.980 This administrative state that is totally unaccountable to the president that lets it move in the direction that it has been going.

00:05:41.200 But the president is accountable to voters.

00:05:43.100 So are members of Congress.

00:05:44.600 And the system is designed that way.

00:05:47.520 That's why we say it's a democracy or a constitutional republic, because the voters convey, bestow the authority on their leaders.

00:05:57.700 And so this seems not only illegal, their behavior, but unconstitutional.

00:06:02.200 I mean, at the most basic level, unconstitutional now.

00:06:05.020 Totally unconstitutional.

00:06:05.940 And if you would have seen Woodrow Wilson bemoan our constitutional system, he would have wanted constitutional amendments.

00:06:11.920 The left stopped talking about constitutional amendments because they innovated to this new fourth branch, which is totally different than anything the founders would have ever understood.

00:06:22.540 The notion of independent agencies that think of and Congress has designed them to be divorced from the president.

00:06:29.420 But even the notion of, like, this is – we're supposed to be technocrats and experts, and we don't have to listen to what you say.

00:06:38.000 We work for – and I caught this, Tucker.

00:06:40.860 People would say, well, we work for the office of the president.

00:06:44.940 Huh?

00:06:45.660 What?

00:06:46.240 What is that?

00:06:47.420 It's a way –

00:06:48.100 And where does it get its authority?

00:06:49.880 They get their authority – they have essentially taken authority.

00:06:55.040 They have no legitimate authority.

00:06:56.620 They have no legitimate authority in the Constitution.

00:06:58.880 But they are part of this fourth branch that I still believe reports in large measure to congressional leadership and the K Street interest, right?

00:07:10.200 You have very powerful interests that direct them to keep going in the direction that they want them to go.

00:07:17.020 It's why these bills are written in such a way that they are – anything – you could read anything into them, right?

00:07:22.920 When Nancy Pelosi says, we're going to find out what the bill says, she wasn't actually being inaccurate.

00:07:29.520 That's their strategy.

00:07:31.100 They pass bills, and then they let the experts fill them in.

00:07:34.820 But over the phone, they put massive pressure on them to go along with their directions and their ends.

00:07:42.020 And lo and behold, you get conservatives, Republicans that take office, and then you find that it's incredibly difficult to wield power to get them – to deal with all of that muscle memory to get them to do what you want.

00:07:55.420 And so you've got to have statutory authority that a president kind of steps in and says, I am fully aware of where I sit in the Constitution.

00:08:03.900 I am fully aware of the tools at my disposal, and I'm going to use them on behalf of the American people because I just want a massive agenda-setting election, and I'm going to go do what I said I would do.

00:08:16.320 That's democracy, correct?

00:08:17.520 That is democracy.

00:08:18.660 That is not oligarchy.

00:08:19.880 And when they say we're going to preserve democracy, we know that they have been meaning – all they want to do is preserve their kind of amorphous oligarchy administrative deep state.

00:08:30.680 I don't think that's an overstatement at all.

00:08:33.520 I mean, I just think – I don't even see the counterargument against what you just said.

00:08:36.640 So let's just – if you don't mind walking us through what happened in the example that you gave Ukraine.

00:08:41.980 So you just said the president comes into office in 2017 and says, why are we sending all this money into Ukraine?

00:08:47.820 Where is it going?

00:08:48.320 There's no audit.

00:08:48.820 We don't know.

00:08:49.320 It's the most corrupt country in Europe, one of the most corrupt in the world.

00:08:52.040 Maybe we should find out.

00:08:53.060 We don't know.

00:08:53.720 Okay, we're cutting off until we know.

00:08:55.320 I think that's what you said.

00:08:57.560 And the agency is like, no, we're going to continue to fund Ukraine.

00:09:01.720 How do they do that?

00:09:03.840 They ignore the president.

00:09:06.860 And officials ignore the president.

00:09:09.980 And I think one of the things you'll see in this next Trump term is policy officials, his political appointees that are not looking to get out of what he has clearly told them to do, right?

00:09:21.460 So let's assume that issue is solved.

00:09:23.820 But at the bureaucratic level –

00:09:25.460 The issue, I think what you're saying is let's assume that he appoints people who agree with him and will do what he asks.

00:09:30.880 Correct.

00:09:31.400 Okay.

00:09:31.620 So, for instance, my staff was part of what we call the policy process, right, where you would go and you defend and you would articulate what you're trying to accomplish.

00:09:43.160 And we had put the hold on the Ukraine funding, and my guy goes to all of these meetings, and he's like literally the only one in the room that wants to do what the president has asked him to do.

00:09:54.520 Everyone's kind of just ganging up on him.

00:09:57.340 And that is – think of that often for all of our political appointees.

00:10:02.680 They are surrounded by people that have no idea about what the reasons and the agenda that the president has been put in office.

00:10:11.880 And they're just bombarded with reasons of how can you do this?

00:10:15.160 What are you thinking?

00:10:16.520 Did you know that this is – you can't do this?

00:10:18.840 Most of the time that's not true.

00:10:20.460 And so you have to cut through all of that and to have the courage of your convictions and, quite frankly, Tucker, the know-how to know – to have read the law.

00:10:30.800 Exactly.

00:10:31.240 To get in the granular details yourselves, to not be staffed by the people working for you.

00:10:38.280 This notion that you can just come in and preside is not true.

00:10:41.100 You have to be in the weeds and to drive these agencies to be able to fix where we have – the undergrowth and the muscle memory that we've had for decades.

00:10:53.360 So why can't you just – so if the president says, again, to refer to your example, I don't think we should be funding Ukraine.

00:11:00.760 I'm elected.

00:11:01.740 We're going to cut this off.

00:11:03.220 If Congress wants to fund Ukraine, they can go ahead and do that.

00:11:05.680 But the agencies are not going to fund Ukraine.

00:11:07.000 So why wouldn't you just fire the people who disobey, who try to subvert democracy?

00:11:15.040 You've got to know how to fire them, and there are tools to do that.

00:11:18.960 And the president was innovating in that space himself with what's called Schedule F of essentially saying, if you work for me in your policy, a career official, think your attorneys who are writing regulations, then we're going to create a new classification for you.

00:11:34.560 And you are going to be what most of the country is, which is at-will employee.

00:11:39.140 I don't understand a system where a president, any president, Obama, Biden, Donald Trump, comes in and doesn't have control of the executive branch because constitutionally he does have – so how come you can't fire them?

00:11:58.400 Why is it just not as simple as saying you're fired?

00:12:00.820 It should be.

00:12:01.400 And this is one of the mountains of the administrative state.

00:12:05.980 This is how they have built their institution by essentially having – it would be incredibly difficult to hire and fire employees.

00:12:16.840 And so I'll get another example.

00:12:18.860 When the president decided to take money from defense to build the wall, we had clear legal grounds to do it that Congress had given us.

00:12:27.880 It's called transfer authority.

00:12:29.100 And I told this to the Hill, and obviously this was controversial.

00:12:34.240 It shouldn't have been controversial.

00:12:35.580 Congress had given us very clear transfer authority.

00:12:38.520 I must have had at least three times someone relitigate that decision from the career staff who work at OMB.

00:12:46.200 Are you sure?

00:12:46.780 Are you sure?

00:12:47.280 I think we should oppose.

00:12:48.200 I think this – because, guys, the decision has been made.

00:12:52.200 Execute the decision.

00:12:54.060 And you see that everywhere, right?

00:12:56.600 And if you don't drive it, you're going to get better.

00:13:01.080 You're not going to be able to accomplish what the president needs you to accomplish.

00:13:04.940 How about if you were to just start the meeting with any – okay, this is how democracy works.

00:13:09.280 The people elect a leader.

00:13:10.900 He carries out their will.

00:13:12.720 Anyone standing in the way of that is subverting democracy.

00:13:16.220 We will not allow that.

00:13:17.320 Anyone who does that is fired instantly.

00:13:18.960 Could you do that and just say you're fired for unconstitutional behavior?

00:13:22.420 You can do that increasingly when you move towards a Schedule F system.

00:13:27.200 And there are other tools in the toolbox.

00:13:29.420 But under the current system, what would happen if you tried that?

00:13:32.060 Lawsuits.

00:13:33.100 Lawsuits.

00:13:33.420 Lawsuits, yeah.

00:13:34.560 But if you fire them all?

00:13:37.340 Look, you've got a lot of tools on the table.

00:13:40.540 It's just so infuriating.

00:13:42.060 Look, it is one of the most infuriating things that you could possibly imagine.

00:13:47.580 But I think that the good news – and this is, I think, the good news not just in hiring, firing.

00:13:52.920 The good news at large is that most of the time they have been able to get as far as they can because of just – it is the way it is.

00:14:01.940 It's precedent and laws that are not drafted precisely but purposely vague.

00:14:09.100 And as a result, we can then do it in reverse.

00:14:12.820 You can have a president who kind of steps in and says, you know what?

00:14:15.880 There's no constitutional amendment for me to take control of the administrative state.

00:14:19.840 I'm going to do in reverse everything that you have done.

00:14:23.040 And I think that is the great hope.

00:14:24.780 What you need is people who are able to absorb political heat.

00:14:31.180 They don't have a fear of conflict.

00:14:33.340 They can execute under withering enemy fire.

00:14:36.300 They are up to speed and they are no nonsense in their own ability to know what must be done.

00:14:42.540 And they are unbelievably committed to the president and his agenda and believe – and truly believe in their bones that they're not there for their own agenda.

00:14:51.960 They're there for what President Trump was elected to do.

00:14:55.920 And so his commander's intent matters a great deal.

00:14:59.900 And that's the view that I always had, Tucker, is how do I get in the minds of the president to think through what is he trying to accomplish?

00:15:06.180 And then I'm going to go figure out how to do it.

00:15:09.360 Yeah, because once again, he is the authority and no one else does because only he was elected.

00:15:14.260 And I just – I'm fixated on this question of like where do career bureaucrats think they derive the authority to make these decisions?

00:15:20.600 Like who made them God?

00:15:22.560 I think it's very – no one ever asked that question in D.C.

00:15:25.600 You're considered a freak if you do, but I think it's a key question.

00:15:28.740 So one of the problems that you had last time was the media.

00:15:32.180 Explain how that works, how the media works in conjunction with the permanent state and the Congress to thwart the president.

00:15:38.180 Well, I think number one, they are always framing narratives and messages that both are lies and are also designed to destabilize the Republicans in control who want to be for however that narrative is being framed.

00:15:57.680 You used one already with democracy, right?

00:15:59.740 If you're not aware that when they say democracy, they mean oligarchy, you're like, I don't want to be anti-democratic, right?

00:16:07.000 The whole point is preserving democracy.

00:16:09.000 It's what we just did.

00:16:09.880 And if you have a plan to deal with the administrative state and then they frame it as authoritarian, you don't want a cast of your own allies saying, I don't want to be anti-authoritarian.

00:16:20.560 We saw this in COVID, right, where if they define something as anti-science or anti-public health, it causes our political appointees to just completely wilt, right?

00:16:34.240 And so that's, I think, the beauty of President Trump is he's kind of immune to these media-generated narratives that conflict with common sense reality.

00:16:43.740 That, I think, is the main one because that is controlling the skies from a military standpoint, right?

00:16:50.780 Like that is their ability to shape the conversation in such a way that it makes it very hard.

00:16:57.320 Number two, they're obviously working in conjunction with leakers and individuals with know-how to know, you know, when a hold has been put on Ukraine to be able to send that and have it explode in the public arena. 0.69

00:17:14.940 And so you have to prevent leaks.

00:17:17.980 You have to govern well from the get-go to be able to manage all of that as best you possibly can.

00:17:24.780 But I also think there's an opportunity there because they will report on conflict.

00:17:31.920 They will report on confrontation.

00:17:33.480 And when they do that, you can get the word out as to what you're doing.

00:17:37.500 At least you can get the word out on shows like this and in the new and developing ecosystem.

00:17:43.360 Well, that's kind of it right there.

00:17:44.700 I mean, that was the basis of my question.

00:17:46.020 I do think things have changed, right?

00:17:47.540 I mean, if you still care what the New York Times or Washington Post say or Ken Delaney did NBC News, like, I hope you're not working there.

00:17:57.540 Right, right.

00:17:58.040 Right?

00:17:58.480 Do you think anybody still cares what they think?

00:18:00.680 No.

00:18:02.520 The whole ballgame has shifted, right?

00:18:05.440 Like, I don't even know why you would do many of these interviews at all because if you can't get, you know, you've got to be able to get your words out without just complete combativeness.

00:18:17.020 And I think the best example is, remember, the Caitlin Collins interview with President Trump.

00:18:23.240 I mean, it's just constant interrupting and misuse of, you know, lies, actually.

00:18:31.360 You're right.

00:18:31.520 And so, like, that's the kind of thing that you're up against.

00:18:34.960 But you can shape them.

00:18:37.340 You can, particularly the print media.

00:18:39.820 And I think there are, you know, I think it's important to at least attempt to do that.

00:18:44.960 But you have to make the measure of the person that you're dealing with.

00:18:49.680 And sometimes they're just, you know, they're complete activists themselves.

00:18:54.000 Do you remember when Democrats used to refer to abortion as something that should be safe, legal, and rare?

00:18:59.240 Well, they've changed their view on that.

00:19:01.260 It went from a right to a sacrament.

00:19:04.180 This isn't the pro-choice movement you may remember from 30 years ago.

00:19:08.320 This is something much darker.

00:19:09.600 And that's why we have joined forces with Preborn, they're a sponsor of the show and of our speaking tour, to do something about it.

00:19:16.780 It's the largest pro-life organization in the United States.

00:19:19.620 And they are doing what they should do, which is speaking up against this atrocity.

00:19:25.500 Killing babies after birth?

00:19:28.020 No one seems to have the bravery to call that wrong, which it is.

00:19:32.380 But Preborn is calling it out.

00:19:33.760 Their networks of clinics are positioned in the highest abortion areas in the country, and they've rescued 300,000 babies.

00:19:40.620 When a woman considering an abortion searches to end her baby's life, Preborn is there.

00:19:45.520 The power of ultrasound, combined with the love of God, doubles the baby's chance of being born.

00:19:51.020 A single ultrasound costs 28 bucks.

00:19:53.660 Five ultrasounds are 140 bucks.

00:19:56.020 Giving women the information they need to make the decision that many of them actually want to make, to have a baby.

00:20:03.720 Any gift will help, and all gifts are tax-deductible.

00:20:07.060 To donate securely, go to preborn.com slash Tucker, or call pound 250 on your phone, and when asked, use the word baby.

00:20:15.660 Tucker says it best.

00:20:17.460 Their credit card companies are ripping Americans off, and enough is enough.

00:20:22.040 This is Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas.

00:20:24.180 Our legislation, the Credit Card Competition Act, would help in the grip Visa and MasterCard have on us.

00:20:32.020 Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee, and they've been raising it without even telling you.

00:20:39.660 This hurts consumers and every small business owner.

00:20:43.000 In fact, American families are paying $1,100 in hidden swipe fees each year.

00:20:48.200 The fees Visa and MasterCard charge Americans are the highest in the world, double candidates, and eight times more than Europe's.

00:20:56.860 That's why I've taken action, but I need your help to help get this passed.

00:21:01.260 I'm asking you to call your senator today and demand they pass the Credit Card Competition Act.

00:21:07.660 Paid for by the Merchants Payments Coalition, not authorized by any candidate or candidates committee.

00:21:12.200 www.merchantspaymentscoalition.com

00:21:15.120 Football season is here, and PrizePix is the best place to get real money sports action while watching football.

00:21:33.140 Season-long fantasy takes so much time, but PrizePix makes it simple.

00:21:37.300 Just pick two or more players across any sport.

00:21:39.960 Pick more or less on their projection, and you can win up to 100 times your money.

00:21:44.180 On PrizePix, you can still cash out even if the lineup isn't perfect, and all withdrawals are fast, safe, and secure.

00:21:51.100 Not only that, but PrizePix is the only daily fantasy app with injury insurance.

00:21:55.600 If one of your players goes down in the first half, PrizePix doesn't count it as a loss.

00:22:00.240 Just some of the many ways PrizePix puts its members first.

00:22:03.780 Download the PrizePix app today.

00:22:05.660 Use code TUCKER and get $50 instantly when you play $5.

00:22:09.080 That's code TUCKER on PrizePix to get $50 instantly when you play $5.

00:22:14.820 You don't even need to win to receive the $50 bonus.

00:22:17.920 It's guaranteed.

00:22:19.420 PrizePix.

00:22:20.140 Run your game.

00:22:21.380 Must be present in certain states.

00:22:22.740 Visit PrizePix.com for restrictions and details.

00:22:25.040 You've been prescribed medication for BPH or enlarged prostate.

00:22:29.320 You don't like the idea of a daily medication for the rest of your life.

00:22:32.800 If you have to take it forever, is it really worth it?

00:22:35.300 But that's what the doctor ordered, and symptoms from BPH were negatively impacting your life.

00:22:39.920 A weak flow, an urgent need to go, interrupted sleep.

00:22:43.020 Now you feel stuck between medications that aren't really doing the trick and the idea of invasive surgery.

00:22:49.100 There may be another option, a minimally invasive procedure covered by most insurance called the Urolift System.

00:22:56.000 The Urolift System may provide up to three times the symptom relief as a common BPH medication based on early data from a head-to-head study.

00:23:02.980 Men 45 and over.

00:23:04.340 Go to KnowBPHMeds.com to learn more and find a Urolift System trained doctor near you.

00:23:10.680 Most common side effects are temporary and can include discomfort when urinating, urgency, inability to control the urge, pelvic pain, and some blood in the urine.

00:23:16.220 Rare side effects, including bleeding and infection, may lead to a serious outcome and may require intervention.

00:23:20.680 The minimally invasive Urolift System.

00:23:22.840 Go to KnowBPHMeds.com.

00:23:29.320 It does seem, I'm going to ask you about the intel agencies, it does seem like one of the main vectors of control is briefings.

00:23:38.480 And the number of people I've spoken to, Congress, Executive Branch, are like, oh, no, no, no, if you only got the briefing, I think I live there too long.

00:23:45.480 I just don't believe the briefing.

00:23:47.080 You know, maybe sometimes they're accurate, sometimes they're not, but they're almost always designed to control the person being briefed.

00:23:52.500 Did you see that?

00:23:53.520 I did, and I very rarely ever learned anything particularly interesting in the briefing.

00:23:58.100 Is that true?

00:23:59.000 Yeah.

00:23:59.320 They didn't tell you who killed Kennedy, huh?

00:24:00.700 They did not, right?

00:24:01.960 And so, you know, I think I came away with the similar skepticism of these briefings and the information and the overclassification in the system.

00:24:11.980 Yes.

00:24:12.480 They classify everything.

00:24:14.080 And you're reading this thing, and you're like, you realize that's all just normal stuff that's out in a congressional research service.

00:24:21.320 Yeah, it's on Twitter.

00:24:21.940 Right, and so, like, so I think that's a huge thing that we've got to fix, you know, overclassification in the system.

00:24:27.860 But I think they both create this environment where it's very exclusive.

00:24:33.720 They are trying to bring you into their kind of priestly role so that, no, I saw the briefing.

00:24:41.540 If you had seen the briefing, you would be okay with us not having a FISA warrant requirement.

00:24:47.900 Exactly.

00:24:48.360 Right?

00:24:48.700 You would be okay with us just another $100 billion for Ukraine.

00:24:52.880 We can't have Ukraine fall.

00:24:56.040 None of it is rigorous analysis.

00:25:00.840 And honestly, I think that's the biggest thing that I was bemoaning is the extent to which rigorous analysis that I thought would be there wasn't there.

00:25:11.680 What do you mean by rigorous analysis?

00:25:13.780 I don't expect people to agree with me constantly.

00:25:17.480 I want well-prepared memos that have a conviction to them and then support them.

00:25:26.180 It's not – these are not, like, I'm going to plant the flag and then we can just say, okay, who's right, who's that, who has better support?

00:25:34.080 No, no.

00:25:34.780 It's like I'm going to give the blob an exercise to report on something, and the blob is going to kind of, like, all – it's not a Google spreadsheet, but it's going to all be, you know, an interactive Google spreadsheet to just spit out something that is a consensus document.

00:25:51.860 And you're reading this thing and you're like, this makes no real claims other than to affirm the narrative that we just talked about, right?

00:25:59.460 So what's the point other than to preserve the status quo?

00:26:02.420 At that point, the point is just to know what the intelligence community is writing on because you're not going to learn anything from it.

00:26:07.840 I talked to someone recently in the last few days who works in the intel community, the IC, who is saying that you can see people who come to Washington for the first time in high positions and other branch before and after their briefings.

00:26:22.700 And they're, like, different people.

00:26:24.080 And they fall for it.

00:26:25.800 Like, all of them fall for it.

00:26:27.060 You know, now we're going to tell you all the things you wondered about.

00:26:29.480 We're going to tell you the truth about them, presidents especially.

00:26:32.680 Trump seems, as you said, immune from this, and he's done it before. 0.99

00:26:35.380 But this person said, you should see how much they change, like, deep inside once we, you know, lay the bullshit on them. 0.99

00:26:43.860 They just, they're not the same. 0.98

00:26:45.380 Have you noticed that?

00:26:46.200 Oh, I've seen it.

00:26:47.660 You know, I think part of the problem, and this is endemic of not just the IC, but we don't read enough in general.

00:26:55.380 We don't have our own convictions.

00:26:57.840 We don't search for understanding ourselves.

00:27:00.580 And so you have people go in, and they're, like, I kind of need this career staff to tell me what to think. 0.99

00:27:07.220 I don't want to look stupid, right? 0.88

00:27:08.660 And so that has killed us on our side of the aisle, the conservative side, to say we don't have people that are driving policy and bringing their own opinions and their own history. 0.98

00:27:20.840 And so they are susceptible to feeling like – and they still believe that these people have an authoritative stance on things.

00:27:31.800 And they don't have enough skepticism that, in fact, you know, there's no – the emperor has no clothes, right?

00:27:38.560 And that is the – and you've got to bring that perspective.

00:27:42.300 They're weak inside is what you're saying, a lot of these people.

00:27:45.220 I do think that's – I do think that's the case.

00:27:47.500 You know, and I – you know, from the standpoint of the – I see the other thing that they would do is they would keep you from being briefed, right?

00:27:54.840 The brief – and we've already discussed of what the brief is and sometimes, like, what President Trump is saying, I'm not going to necessarily get the brief, right?

00:28:03.420 But I would find that I wasn't read into certain things until they needed my signature.

00:28:10.420 So once they needed some reason to get my signature, then all of a sudden I get this brief, right?

00:28:15.940 And it was – that's not the way it should be.

00:28:18.720 If you're trying to provide oversight and accountability, you need – you don't know what you don't know.

00:28:24.200 And so you have to be able to be – have the whole entire landscape of things that you could – oh, that's interesting.

00:28:34.260 We should do something – President Trump wouldn't like that.

00:28:37.280 And I find that was very restrictive unless they needed me.

00:28:40.180 And so I basically said, look, I'm not going to – you are not getting my signature unless you get me briefed up.

00:28:46.600 And I want access to all of these things that I need to be able to provide oversight for the federal government.

00:28:53.240 And one of the things that we did, Tucker, is that since the rise of OMB, that ability to turn funding on and off, had always been done by a career individual, not a political appointee.

00:29:08.360 And so we changed that.

00:29:10.240 And it was like the – it was like the world was going to end.

00:29:13.460 They said, look, you're going to destroy the agency.

00:29:16.260 You can't – you can't handle the bandwidth.

00:29:20.700 You can't handle the bandwidth?

00:29:22.280 The chaos will be – will be unmatched.

00:29:25.200 And we changed it.

00:29:26.560 And next thing you know, everything's flowing across our desk.

00:29:29.280 Oh, that's interesting.

00:29:30.400 We're not doing that.

00:29:31.420 You know, like, it was just amazing.

00:29:32.800 And if you don't know and have that thesis that says this is what must be done, you could be the most incredible conservative in the world.

00:29:40.960 You could be the most policy-consistent person with the president.

00:29:45.080 But you don't know how to put your hand in the glove and use that agency for the president's behalf.

00:29:52.740 The president's not going to be able to be well-served at that agency.

00:29:56.360 I saw David Ignatius, who is a longtime water carrier for the CIA.

00:30:01.420 I don't know if they're paying him, but they should be because he does their bidding and has for decades at the Washington Post.

00:30:06.500 And I heard him saying yesterday that we can't have Tulsi Gabbard at DNI, Director of National Intelligence, because it will cause, quote, chaos, because the intel community doesn't like her.

00:30:17.600 And basically, he's making the argument that we should not have Sillian control of these agencies because the agencies won't like it. 0.97

00:30:23.940 Just say it.

00:30:24.480 That's what you really mean.

00:30:25.380 Well, I think that's basically what he's saying.

00:30:27.400 So that's, again, that's dictatorship is what he's describing.

00:30:31.520 But he used chaos as kind of the threat.

00:30:37.240 Okay, but you've been there.

00:30:41.360 If you really did everything that was needed in order to root out the corruption that defines our government, you would cause some chaos.

00:30:50.180 You would, wouldn't you?

00:30:52.660 It will certainly read on the papers like chaos, right?

00:30:55.800 That's good, fair.

00:30:56.480 You know, as to what's, what, what just is normal, good government behind the scenes, managing, pushing, pushing through whatever, I think it can be done very wisely and done in a way that, you know, anyone who had a bird's eye view into that would be able to say, that's exactly what we put this administration into office.

00:31:19.260 But, yeah, you're going to have to kick over people's paradigms, you're going to have to kick over people's turfs, you're going to have to change people's understanding of things that they have invested their whole life into a view of the world.

00:31:32.280 And none of this is, their views of the world aren't, isn't rooted in the Constitution, in some cases, any, you know, version of the facts.

00:31:41.060 But you're going to, that's going to cause a lot of turmoil within these bureaucracies, and you've got to fight through it.

00:31:47.120 And then they're going to overlay the aspect of, oh, my gosh, you guys are racist, and, you know, you guys don't care about us as people.

00:31:54.540 You know, you're going to have to deal with that, too, right?

00:31:57.460 They are, you know, one of the arguments that they're using in the press against me right now, as they say, he called for trauma within the bureaucracies.

00:32:06.420 Yeah, I called for trauma within the bureaucracies.

00:32:08.980 The bureaucracies hate the American people.

00:32:11.480 They want to put a 77-year-old, and did, a 77-year-old Navy veteran in jail for 18 months for building four ponds on his ranch to fight wildfires.

00:32:21.340 That's not the Department of Justice.

00:32:22.880 That's the EPA.

00:32:24.140 You go every agency, and it's not just big government.

00:32:26.980 It's weaponized against the country.

00:32:29.240 Of course.

00:32:29.620 And so, yeah, we – I would want to provide trauma against that bureaucracy in a way that frees the American people from the people that have assumed the type of power that the Constitution and no law, no public debate ever gave them.

00:32:45.740 Does that mean we dislike everyone working at federal agencies and want them to have a bad life?

00:32:50.240 No, of course.

00:32:51.380 There's a lot of people there who have come to serve and do great public service, and we want to affirm that, and we want to turn over the bureaucracies that are traumatizing the American people.

00:33:02.180 Yeah, and the outcomes are terrible, and they're terrible because it's corrupt.

00:33:04.700 That's why it doesn't change.

00:33:06.040 And the D.C. metro area is the richest in the country, and they don't make anything.

00:33:10.520 So it's just like that's the most obvious marker for corruption I can imagine.

00:33:15.740 Tell us about what congressional confirmation hearings are going to look like for Trump's appointees.

00:33:24.800 They're going to be exhilarating if you have the right approach, Tom.

00:33:32.460 But they'll – they're going to come at everything we've got, right, or everything they've got with what they are able to put someone in the dock,

00:33:43.220 and that individual is going to have to face the balance of wanting to defend everything that they have done in life and belief.

00:33:52.980 And at the same time, you're – the thing that's a little hard about it is you're no longer yourself, right?

00:33:59.400 You are yourself, but you are also going to do a job for a person.

00:34:02.820 So what I think about a particular issue doesn't mean as much as what the president thinks about something like that.

00:34:10.260 And so it is a different thing than coming on and doing an interview about what your viewpoints are on a particular issue.

00:34:17.200 No, that's exactly – it's not a cable news hit.

00:34:19.680 Right.

00:34:20.020 No.

00:34:20.160 So – but I think – look, I have – I've had experience – you know, Bernie Sanders went after me very, very hard in my first confirmation hearing as deputy OMB for essentially believing in John 3.16.

00:34:35.580 And it was – it was –

00:34:38.160 Wait, he hit you – he attacked you on the basis of your religious belief?

00:34:41.560 He said I was a bigot and I should not serve in the federal government because of my Christian faith and believing something that essentially comes down to what's articulated at sports games with John 3.16.

00:34:52.500 And that was – most – who's the bigot?

00:34:57.460 Who is the bigger, right?

00:34:58.680 That's the perfect question that goes back.

00:35:01.200 That – most nominees will not go through what I went through.

00:35:04.560 But I will tell them you will get through it.

00:35:07.680 You will get to the other side.

00:35:09.200 And it will be the most freeing thing in the world.

00:35:11.100 You will come at – through the end of a process like that and you will – I find it to be, at that point, exhilarating because it prepares you to take on enemy fire.

00:35:21.160 Where are they going to – are you afraid they've been calling you a bigot, racist, Christian nationalist, authoritarian?

00:35:27.540 If you are not afraid of these attacks and you give them no credence, no credibility, then you will be able to get through these things.

00:35:37.880 You will be able to convince enough senators and you'll be able to serve – and you'll be able to serve more effectively.

00:35:45.000 But the bright lights will be on in these confirmation hearings.

00:35:48.940 So how much of it is, like, theatrical and how much of it is real?

00:35:53.960 Like, so you go into a hearing like that, your confirmation hearing, do you know the outcome at the beginning?

00:35:59.860 Or do you think that votes really change based on the testimony of nominees?

00:36:03.600 I don't think most votes change at all.

00:36:05.960 I think that, you know, you may have one or two anomaly senators that are trying to – you know, have you answered something to their satisfaction?

00:36:13.140 Or are they trying to get a feel for you that they haven't otherwise?

00:36:17.680 But I think increasingly in the partisan world that we live in, the Democrats are voting no.

00:36:24.980 And it's a matter of making sure you've convinced and you've brought in the –

00:36:29.120 So you get – I mean, what's interesting –

00:36:30.740 I got no Democrat votes.

00:36:32.980 But the Republicans are always voting for the – I mean, Lindsey Graham will vote for any Democrat. 0.99

00:36:37.240 Sorry, I'm not going to put you in an uncomfortable situation, but there are plenty of Republican senators who are liberal Democrats effectively.

00:36:44.320 And they vote for all kinds of nominees.

00:36:46.420 But you don't see that on the other side.

00:36:48.200 You never see that on the other side.

00:36:49.600 And they have an appreciation that they have to attack our people at every level because they know that every level is the stepping stone for –

00:36:59.300 The next level.

00:36:59.940 Exactly, right?

00:37:00.580 So they don't make us say, oh, this is just like the undersecretary.

00:37:03.580 Yeah, exactly.

00:37:04.560 You know, they – no, we're opposed to that.

00:37:06.560 That guy will be secretary someday.

00:37:08.540 Well, you're – I guess it's a perfect example, aren't you?

00:37:10.700 Well, certainly the first term, right?

00:37:13.460 I become deputy.

00:37:14.620 And next thing you know, Mick goes to the chief of staff.

00:37:17.540 And so I have an opportunity to serve as deputy – as director.

00:37:19.900 And so that is – they understand government and they understand the career path that is opening for people.

00:37:29.180 And they – when they sense – and it's not always the case – but when they sense that this is a committed conservative, it's a partisan line down the road.

00:37:38.700 For 35 years, Liberty Safe has been the number one manufacturer of safes made in this country, American-made, from start to finish.

00:37:48.160 They make high-quality gun safes – I've got one – vault doors, home safes, handgun vaults, whatever you need to protect the things you value.

00:37:56.000 And again, I can tell you from personal experience, these guys know what they're doing.

00:37:59.820 I use Liberty Safe for the things that I don't want stolen, the things that really matter, my father's shotguns, the documents that I've got to have, and a lot more.

00:38:09.360 I'm not going to tell you what else.

00:38:10.680 But you need one.

00:38:11.740 Prime rates are way up.

00:38:13.340 And if you have anything you would like to protect that you need to protect, Liberty Safe is the way to do it.

00:38:20.220 Now, Liberty Safe has over 350 dealers nationwide who specialize in delivery and installation and answering any questions you have.

00:38:29.540 If you've got somebody to protect, they've got a way to protect it.

00:38:32.860 Visit libertysafe.com.

00:38:34.780 Pick out what you need and be sure to use the code TUCKER at checkout to let them know that we sent you.

00:38:39.700 They'll take care of the rest.

00:38:41.040 Liberty Safe is a product we fervently believe in.

00:38:43.620 With Liberty Safe, you are always protected.

00:38:45.740 The housing crisis in the GTA has reached a critical point, with more than two in three residents being affected.

00:38:51.440 ...reporting that almost nine million Canadians are living in food-insecure households.

00:38:55.680 Over one million people in the GTA now live below the poverty line.

00:38:59.420 We're just out today.

00:39:00.740 Mental health support is the number one reason people are calling 2-1-1 for a...

00:39:04.980 At United Way, we wake up to a different alarm every day.

00:39:08.960 Help us end poverty and build a better GTA any way we can.

00:39:12.740 Donate today at unitedwaygt.org.

00:39:15.740 Breaking news happens anywhere, anytime.

00:39:30.480 Police have warned the protesters repeatedly get back.

00:39:33.880 CBC News brings the story to you as it happens.

00:39:37.480 Hundreds of wildfires are burning.

00:39:39.140 Be the first to know what's going on and what that means for you and for Canadians.

00:39:44.220 This situation has changed very quickly.

00:39:47.780 Helping make sense of the world when it matters most.

00:39:51.000 Stay in the know.

00:39:51.900 CBC News.

00:39:53.640 You can't prevent early mornings.

00:40:03.680 But you can help prevent certain HPV-related cancers with Gardasil 9.

00:40:07.560 Approximately 75% of sexually active Canadians will get HPV in their lifetime.

00:40:12.000 Gardasil 9 helps protect against certain cancers and diseases caused by certain HPV types.

00:40:15.800 It does not treat HPV infections, cancers, and diseases, and may not protect everyone who gets vaccinated.

00:40:19.500 Side effects and allergic reactions can occur.

00:40:21.420 If you're aged 18 to 45, talk to your healthcare professional or visit getg9.ca today.

00:40:26.200 Isn't it the role of Republican leaders, particularly now, since Trump won the majority of the popular vote, overwhelming majority of electoral votes, House and Senate are Republican, majority of state houses, majority of government ships.

00:40:42.840 That's a mandate.

00:40:44.300 So that means that Republican leaders, the two head guys in the House and Senate, should be helping.

00:40:51.620 Are they going to?

00:40:52.720 I have high hopes that people are seeing what Trump just accomplished and are going to be pulling the oars to get things done as soon as possible.

00:41:03.180 And I think the jury is out, right?

00:41:04.640 I think I want to see and I'm hoping to see people looking for ways to move these appointees through the process.

00:41:13.440 And it sounds like they're trying to do that.

00:41:17.380 We'll see.

00:41:18.620 But, you know, we have to do things not based on how it has been done recently.

00:41:24.820 Like this whole notion of the recess appointments, right?

00:41:27.540 You have some people out there who are saying this is unconstitutional.

00:41:30.720 It's not the way it was meant to be.

00:41:32.320 It's totally wrong, right?

00:41:34.160 It is a specific provision in the Constitution to be able to allow a president, if he has to stand up in administration quickly and he's dealing with a Senate that won't move quickly enough, to be able to install his people so that he can actually function as a government, right?

00:41:49.840 That it's specifically mapped out.

00:41:52.620 And yet you have –

00:41:53.760 So in the Constitution.

00:41:54.560 In the Constitution.

00:41:54.980 So it's by definition not a constitutional fair?

00:41:57.500 Fair.

00:41:57.860 So you have Republicans, one of them in particular, like Ed Whelan right now, who's attacking Trump for even mentioning –

00:42:05.840 Who's Ed Whelan?

00:42:07.540 He writes one – he's one of the main kind of legal luminaries on the right and ethics and public policy are one of those think tanks.

00:42:16.860 And he's out there opposing the whole notion of recess appointments for whatever reason I don't know other than he thinks unseemly and not the way the –

00:42:27.300 Okay, so don't – I mean this is a whole separate question and it's a broad brush, but in general, conservative think tanks, with some exceptions, are not conservative.

00:42:37.540 They're tools of the left and sort of repositories have broke down people with no other job prospects.

00:42:43.640 Why would anyone pay attention to them?

00:42:45.940 I think they should increasingly not be.

00:42:48.220 Yeah, and by the way, there are some good ones that I –

00:42:50.020 You know, I love Kevin Roberts and Heritage and there are good people in some think tanks for sure.

00:42:54.380 But in general, it's like the world of Jonah Goldberg.

00:42:56.580 It's like who cares what you think?

00:42:58.500 They only matter to the extent that people in the arena listen to them.

00:43:03.060 Right.

00:43:03.220 And that is increasingly they are not being listened to.

00:43:05.820 And I think that's part of one of the reasons why they're so up in arms about it, right?

00:43:08.920 I mean that's National Review itself is that's phenomenal.

00:43:12.980 What is National Review?

00:43:13.740 That was a magazine in the 50s.

00:43:15.540 Right.

00:43:15.860 So – and I think that's – but my point is the extent to which people have opposed Trump and the America First agenda I think ultimately is a loss of power because they didn't get to set the agenda.

00:43:29.320 They don't get to be the traffic cop.

00:43:31.100 They don't get to kind of say, oh, this offends my sensibility anymore.

00:44:05.760 That's one of the reasons we just put out a five-page paper.

00:44:09.180 We'll put out a 40-page paper next as to this is the constitutional grounds for recess appointments of – we haven't – President Trump hasn't decided to do it.

00:44:17.160 But if he does, he will be in the same vein as our founders.

00:44:20.060 It's a little weird, and again, you haven't – well, as of right now, so it's November 18th, you've not been nominated.

00:44:28.680 No.

00:44:29.020 Yeah, I think you will be.

00:44:30.680 Hope so.

00:44:31.720 But you haven't been.

00:44:32.680 So I don't want to put you in an awkward spot because if you are, you're going to have to deal with this.

00:44:36.500 But why would Mitch McConnell, still the Senate leader of Republicans, why would he say we're not doing recess appointments?

00:44:44.800 Again, I can't – I haven't spoken to Senator McConnell on it.

00:44:48.140 But my guess is that the Senate is going to want to know the argument, and they probably have been told and may have been told, and I'm going to just keep it as positive as possible, that this is inappropriate.

00:45:03.600 You can't do it.

00:45:05.140 And I want to show them – no, in fact, you can.

00:45:08.300 It is entirely appropriate.

00:45:10.320 And to win the argument.

00:45:12.020 And then if you win the argument and then people are like, no, we don't want to do this, then it's a different matter, right?

00:45:17.300 It's like – it just kind of reveals that they're not actually on board with those particular nominees going into office, and that's a different issue.

00:45:28.500 So I think that we don't know yet to whether – will the Senate have an issue?

00:45:34.220 I mean, to some extent, the Senate knows it has an issue because they couldn't move these nominees fast enough in the first term because the Democrats were filibustering everyone, right?

00:45:43.700 And so – and by the way, you know, a lot of these hearings and – you read the history books and people got approved by the Senate in a day.

00:45:52.440 You know, like the system wasn't meant to be this slow, and it has been bogged down and slowed down.

00:45:58.740 And we'll see, you know, Senator Thune, Majority Leader Thune will have a chance to put his own imprint on the Senate, and I want to see how he does.

00:46:07.160 Yeah, I've got, you know, high expectations, low hopes, hope I'm wrong.

00:46:13.340 It'd be one thing if the outcome was positive, if the country was thriving.

00:46:17.320 You know, you'd say, okay, the system's dysfunctional, but you don't really need a lot of change right now, so that's fine.

00:46:21.400 But the outcome is not positive at all.

00:46:23.100 It's total destruction of the country we grew up in, so got to fix it.

00:46:26.600 Why would you want to enter back into this?

00:46:29.120 Well, you know, I've always said the last four years I would never want to miss out on another chance to be at the president's side.

00:46:36.160 I find in him to be someone who's so uniquely situated for the moment.

00:46:41.980 And you go back – and I've done some reading on this.

00:46:45.040 You go back and read some of the Federalist Papers, and they actually designed the system for someone like him,

00:46:50.780 whose – his interests would align with the country's interests to such an extent to which it actually works.

00:47:01.340 Like, separation of powers is meant to have strong, opinionated, convictional leadership that go as fast as they can and hard as they can in their direction,

00:47:13.740 and for the system to then have true separation of powers, right?

00:47:18.880 An example of that is what he's proposing on recess appointments.

00:47:23.600 If the Constitution allows you to do it, why wouldn't you do it if it's in your interest?

00:47:27.800 And then let's see what Congress does in response to that.

00:47:30.960 But that's real separation of powers.

00:47:32.640 It's not like this kind of fake fourth branch administrative state where none of it works,

00:47:38.360 and it's all kind of cartel behind the scene where all you get is kind of different parts of each of the branch coming together almost as a blob.

00:47:48.280 And I think he's so unique in terms of being a historical transformative person that we can actually save the country,

00:47:57.740 and that's really what it comes down to.

00:48:00.380 The hour is late.

00:48:02.340 It's 11.59.

00:48:04.400 It's not too late, but it's really late.

00:48:07.220 And this isn't an election where you can just have seesaws.

00:48:09.460 We'll be up and you'll be down.

00:48:11.740 No.

00:48:12.720 If we don't win and he's won an electoral mandate, now it's time to actually execute.

00:48:18.560 If we don't execute, we may never have this chance again.

00:48:23.240 And so you have the president who's ready to go.

00:48:26.000 Now you need know-how people who can do that and do it with the attacks that are coming, and they will come, right?

00:48:33.880 They will come hardest at the people that they believe are the greatest threats.

00:48:40.820 But that's what the president needs.

00:48:43.300 The president needs those types of people where he's not going to be successful and the country won't be saved.

00:48:48.720 And I think that it's incumbent on those of us who have that skill set, who have had the experiences we've had.

00:48:58.440 We're put here for a reason.

00:49:00.080 We're here because God has given us a particular purpose for a particular time, and it's incumbent us to be responsible with those moments that we're given.

00:49:08.360 So I don't know what the future holds.

00:49:09.800 I don't know if I serve or if I continue at my center to be championing the ideas that he's working on.

00:49:15.860 I'm happy with both of those scenarios.

00:49:18.720 But it's incumbent on us to give everything we can to be successful in this moment because I don't think we will get another moment like this.

00:49:28.420 And if you doubt how serious the opposition is to the public, not just to Trump, but to the majority of the country that voted for Trump, they're trying to leave him with World War III on the way out.

00:49:38.720 I can't imagine a more desperate or evil thing for Tony Blinken, who I think is desperate and evil, in my view, to do.

00:49:48.540 Leave him with a war?

00:49:50.440 A lame duck president trying to start a war with the world's largest nuclear power, Russia.

00:49:55.420 What do you make of that? 0.93

00:49:56.480 It's incredibly insidious.

00:50:01.180 And then add to the fact that he can't put two sentences together, and he's largely not in control of his own government.

00:50:07.900 And so you have almost an unelected president with individuals behind the scenes that are doing this.

00:50:14.460 It doesn't surprise me, though.

00:50:18.160 I mean, these are the same people that have weaponized the Department of Justice, have the lawfare.

00:50:24.280 I have a colleague of mine, Jeff Clark, who's, you know, has – they're trying to disbar him because of the care that he had on behalf of the president to deal with voter integrity and election fraud after 2020.

00:50:36.380 And so the system has thrown everything at the warriors that are on the field.

00:50:41.960 You've seen that with Tulsi.

00:50:43.360 You've seen that with Matt Gaetz.

00:50:44.920 I mean, why is all of this stuff being thrown at him slanderously?

00:50:50.200 Can I just say, I thought – I'm sorry to digress, but since you mentioned Gaetz, we don't accuse – look, DOJ leaked that he was a child sex trafficker, okay?

00:51:03.780 So at that point, they have a moral, I would say, legal obligation to charge them for child sex trafficking and prove it in court. 0.97

00:51:10.160 And if they can't, shut the F up. 0.96

00:51:12.080 But they didn't do that. 0.99

00:51:13.320 They did not. 0.95

00:51:13.640 They leaked that – Matt Gaetz, a guy they didn't like whose views were a threat to them, is a child sex trafficker. 0.99

00:51:21.280 Then they just let it hang in the air and all their repulsive little minions like Joe Scarborough, like, he's a child sex trafficker. 0.96

00:51:27.020 You want to live in a world where the secret police can just slander you through the media? 0.92

00:51:31.560 I read in my Bible this morning that you don't believe something unless two or three people are witnesses and say – and there is none of that.

00:51:40.780 In fact, the weaponized Department of Justice said we don't have the proof to pursue these allegations.

00:51:49.700 I know!

00:51:50.340 And so then you read in the story –

00:51:51.900 They accused him of it.

00:51:53.200 They accuse it.

00:51:54.300 They make the case.

00:51:55.420 The reporter said read it this morning.

00:51:57.100 And then they say it should be known that Matt Gaetz denies that these allegations has occurred.

00:52:02.040 Of course he denies it because they're not true in the Department of Justice.

00:52:04.760 There's no accounting of the fact that these things have been proven not to be true.

00:52:09.200 And yet people – and there's a tendency on our side – and this is very troubling.

00:52:13.140 It's not just the left, which is kind of state regime propaganda.

00:52:18.060 There's a tendency on our side to believe that if there's smoke, there must be fire.

00:52:23.200 Why do we do that?

00:52:24.880 Why do we – why does our side – why does Republican congressmen, Republican senators believe that where there must be smoke, there must be fire?

00:52:34.780 They're only because this person has been a confrontational, courageous, convictional leader in a true generational talent, I might add.

00:52:45.060 So that's –

00:52:46.300 Well, that's – the last point is indisputable.

00:52:48.300 That's just a fact.

00:52:49.300 I mean, Gaetz is the most articulate member of Congress.

00:52:51.740 It's like, no, it's not even close.

00:52:53.300 Right?

00:52:53.500 So they hate him for that because he's a danger.

00:52:56.580 My explanation – of course I've noticed that.

00:52:58.920 Republicans believe most of what they're told.

00:53:01.300 Part of it is – I think there's an IQ gap, if I'm just being honest.

00:53:05.860 Part of it is they believe in the system, and Democrats just don't believe in the system at all.

00:53:10.080 They don't believe in any system that curtails their power, basically.

00:53:14.840 But Republicans really believe in it to their great credit.

00:53:17.740 And so they're like, well, it's the DOJ.

00:53:19.380 I mean, it's kind of corrupt on the margins.

00:53:21.560 You know what I mean?

00:53:22.060 There's some bad apples, but most of them are really great.

00:53:24.320 Really?

00:53:25.040 Why haven't the great ones resigned?

00:53:26.740 Right.

00:53:27.040 Right.

00:53:27.260 I don't think there's any evidence they're mostly great at all.

00:53:29.800 I think they're really dangerous.

00:53:30.700 It's heavily armed.

00:53:32.800 Maybe that's the answer?

00:53:34.780 I think that is fundamentally – it's twofold.

00:53:37.620 I think the left is made up of revolutionaries.

00:53:41.000 For sure.

00:53:41.580 Right.

00:53:41.920 And they're Marxist.

00:53:43.420 If you've read Witness, everyone knows that, right?

00:53:46.020 Like that's not a new phenomena.

00:53:49.020 It's become militarized over and over.

00:53:51.860 Witness was written in like 1955.

00:53:53.660 Correct.

00:53:54.060 Right.

00:53:54.240 So now what that looks like is not someone who's like a behind-the-scenes spy.

00:53:59.460 Now that looks like, you know, some of their members of Congress, right?

00:54:03.120 Like an AOC.

00:54:04.400 Their Marxist revolutionaries are voting in Congress.

00:54:07.580 So that's their side.

00:54:09.860 And our side doesn't really grapple with that.

00:54:12.140 We don't make every decision realizing like that's what they think and that's what they're doing.

00:54:16.840 So I'm not going to listen to what they just kind of chit-chat conversation.

00:54:20.460 I'm going to govern and make decisions based on what I know they are pursuing.

00:54:25.740 Know your enemy.

00:54:27.220 Secondly, we do have trust in kind of the media and the institutions like Tony Fauci can't be lying, right?

00:54:37.840 He can't really – he must not have been doing gain-of-function research if he said he wasn't.

00:54:43.820 He's Tony Fauci, right?

00:54:45.640 Like that's what we were up against.

00:54:47.660 It's totally true.

00:54:48.820 And that is the wrong – you've got to have a skepticism to all of these people and their institutions and their bureaucracies.

00:54:59.620 Okay.

00:55:01.580 What needs to be done? 0.77

00:55:03.360 And just – I'll shut up. 1.00

00:55:05.460 I'll stop with my stupid editorial comments. 0.99

00:55:07.160 You just go through the top three or four things that you think this incoming administration, which has a rare mandate, should achieve in order. 0.99

00:55:16.320 I believe that there's a lot of policy issues downstream, the border, inflation, wars across the world.

00:55:25.600 All of them are downstream of one reality, and that is we don't – the American people currently are not in control of their government, and the president hasn't been either.

00:55:36.880 That's correct, man.

00:55:37.880 And so we have to solve that.

00:55:40.160 We have to solve the woke and the weaponized bureaucracy and have the president take control of the executive branch.

00:55:46.640 So my belief, or anyone who wants to listen, is that you have to – the president has to move executively as fast and as aggressively as possible with a radical constitutional perspective to be able to dismantle that bureaucracy in their power centers.

00:56:05.920 And I think there are a couple of ways to do it.

00:56:08.000 Number one is going after the whole notion of independence.

00:56:11.680 There are no independent agencies.

00:56:13.980 Congress may have viewed them as such, SEC or the FCC, CFPB, the whole alphabet soup.

00:56:21.120 But that is not something that the Constitution understands.

00:56:25.220 So there may be different strategies with each one of them about how you dismantle them, but as an administration, the whole notion of an independent agency should be thrown out, particularly with the Department of Justice, in which there's literally no law.

00:56:39.580 All it is is precedent from the Watergate era that the attorney general and those lawyers don't work for the president.

00:56:49.060 Well, who do they work for?

00:56:50.220 They think that they work for themselves.

00:56:52.620 They think that they are –

00:56:53.420 So they have the power to kill people just because they awarded themselves that power? 0.91

00:56:57.160 They have the power to kill people.

00:56:58.320 I mean, they believe that they have the power for all of the prosecutions and that the president doesn't get a say in any of that.

00:57:07.620 And we have to go at that as hard as we possibly can, whether that's the military.

00:57:13.560 We have a whole military industrial complex of generals.

00:57:16.880 And Tommy Tuberville kind of exposed this this last year with a fight about life.

00:57:21.540 But it really became a fight about whether we have a – essentially a military that is not subject to civilian leadership.

00:57:31.980 So you can apply the concept of destroying independence at every agency.

00:57:37.720 I even saw it in aspects of OMB with regard to who gets to make the decisions on statistics, right?

00:57:44.100 Like there are little pockets of independence that have to be just – you got to – we got to remove those, right?

00:57:51.060 They're unconstitutional.

00:57:52.880 Number two –

00:57:53.480 Would you include the Fed in that list?

00:57:56.380 So I am not a huge fan of the Fed.

00:57:59.380 I can't look at the Constitution and the massive decades-long decisions that they have made totally undemocratic and see that that is a place where there deserves to be an exception for –

00:58:15.200 I don't even understand who controls the Fed.

00:58:18.020 I mean, and where does their authority come from?

00:58:19.900 God?

00:58:20.340 Do they – are they speaking directly to God?

00:58:22.160 Like what is this?

00:58:23.120 No, because they're wrong and they've been wrong for decades, right?

00:58:27.320 Right.

00:58:27.580 Let's go to zero interest rates for 11 years and see what happens.

00:58:29.780 And see what happens.

00:58:30.600 So President Trump has a run on that and so I'm not going to speak –

00:58:34.120 But I'm just interested in this.

00:58:35.740 You've looked into the question of what authority does the Constitution bestow and to whom?

00:58:40.920 No, and to give you an example, if you go on – if you were watching news, you're going to have seen in the last two years ads saying,

00:58:48.860 oppose the Fed's regulations on capital, bank capital, right?

00:58:55.740 Well, who are they supposed to call?

00:58:58.260 They're not calling their congressman.

00:59:00.160 The congressman has no power.

00:59:02.040 The issue is like the call to action is against the Fed.

00:59:05.820 Well, sorry, you're kind of out of luck.

00:59:08.060 Yeah, what's the lever we would use to influence the Fed?

00:59:10.740 And so they have existed with this notion that they have this priestly ability to make decisions.

00:59:19.500 And in fact, I don't actually think they're that good at it.

00:59:22.840 I think people like President Trump are in fact better at it.

00:59:26.260 And there's no reason that they should be exempt from the normal democratic process.

00:59:33.300 Listen, if Congress wants to come along and pass rules that says, you know, this is how we want the money supply to go, all of that is in their purview.

00:59:40.420 But I think, you know, this is not some exception to the rule.

00:59:44.280 It doesn't mean in any way that, you know, President Trump has any interest in doing anything in this area.

00:59:49.060 But I don't think it's the exception that proves the rule on independence being something that is important downstream to the CDC, the NIH.

00:59:58.600 I think everything that people like Bobby Kennedy have been running on and others is about, no, you're not some priestly role.

01:00:06.520 You are politicians yourself.

01:00:07.980 You just don't have to face voters, right?

01:00:10.180 So independence is, I think, first and foremost.

01:00:13.480 Number two, bring back the notion of impoundment.

01:00:16.520 And this is something that of what?

01:00:18.240 Of impoundment, the ability to not spend money.

01:00:21.420 For 200 years, presidents had the ability to not spend a congressional appropriation.

01:00:26.860 That has always been the constitutional system.

01:00:29.880 It had been brought – it had been a paradigm that had been brought from the UK and how we understood.

01:00:35.720 The constitutional principle is certainly power of the purse means that Congress gets to set the ceiling.

01:00:41.900 You can't spend without a congressional appropriation.

01:00:44.560 But you weren't ever meant to be forced to spend it.

01:00:47.280 And it has become a floor.

01:00:49.200 So 200 years, presidents are using impoundment.

01:00:52.080 They get money for something.

01:00:53.340 The president says, I don't think it's a good idea or I certainly can do it better or I have events that are happening overseas that cause me not to want to spend on the gunboat when I want to get some treaty done.

01:01:05.000 All manner of executive decision-making that would be a part of that.

01:01:08.800 In the 1970s, at the lowest moment of the presidency, Congress steps in and to some extent the courts and they pass the Impoundment Control Act, which was really the Impoundment Elimination Act.

01:01:22.740 And in that – from that moment, they had destroyed separation of powers on spending and on fiscal issues.

01:01:30.660 But it was beyond that.

01:01:31.920 It wasn't just about dollars and cents.

01:01:33.740 It was about control of the bureaucracy.

01:01:35.140 So that law effectively meant the executive branch, the president's agencies, have to spend every dollar they're sent by the Congress.

01:01:45.060 Correct.

01:01:46.520 And I believe, as a budget guy, that was the original sin on why we can't do anything fiscally from that moment on.

01:01:54.520 It's also why we get omnibus bills because if I only need you to get your signature and I lose all of my ability to, throughout the rest of the fiscal year, to push and pull and not spend and have – make different decisions, I just got to get your one signature.

01:02:10.860 So I'm going to put everything in that one bill, thousands of pages, and I'm going to push it through at the most – the hardest time for you politically.

01:02:19.000 You might have some diplomatic visit that you're going on.

01:02:22.040 Yeah, totally.

01:02:22.660 And so impoundment is vitally important not just to save the country fiscally.

01:02:28.080 It is vitally important to be able to wrest control of the bureaucracy because when you combine Congress giving the agencies vast authority to interpret the laws that they passed, overly broad, make law essentially.

01:02:41.900 Make law essentially that has no repercussions on the people who voted it, right?

01:02:45.560 They don't have to vote on what the right blend is for ethanol.

01:02:48.640 That's right.

01:02:50.260 And then you say that your funding is going for Congress and the president has no ability.

01:02:55.860 Sorry, Mr. President, you don't have to – that's illegal.

01:02:57.960 You can't turn off my funding.

01:03:00.740 Now imperial Congress still exists, just a lot more subtle.

01:03:05.600 So that's number two, bringing back impoundment.

01:03:07.980 Number three is dramatically going at restoring at-will employment as far as you can.

01:03:16.220 A lot of ideas on the agenda.

01:03:19.960 So all these companies are always telling you how much money they're giving to charity.

01:03:23.280 Oh, we're so charitable.

01:03:24.760 But what are the charities they're giving to?

01:03:26.940 These brands that you buy that you have in your house, you don't even want to know.

01:03:30.900 Very often they're charities that don't have the same values that your family has.

01:03:34.380 Sometimes they're charities that don't like your family at all.

01:03:38.200 But when you use Pure Talk, which is a cell phone company a lot of us use,

01:03:41.980 you can be certain that your money is going to charities that you yourself would give to.

01:03:46.780 Veteran-led companies, for example.

01:03:49.400 To date, Pure Talk has gotten rid of $10 million in debt held by veterans.

01:03:55.020 They've spent tens of thousands more every month to help prevent veteran suicide.

01:03:59.380 They just give $50,000 to Mike Rowe Works, which gives scholarships to veteran learning the trades after they leave military service, etc., etc.

01:04:07.460 So you've seen companies, once again, we're not going to name names, Bud Light, but that do business with lunatics.

01:04:13.960 Again, charities that run contrary to your worldview, that despise your worldview.

01:04:18.860 But with Pure Talk, you don't have to worry about that.

01:04:20.820 This is a company that supports causes that you can support.

01:04:23.760 Pure Talk gives you the same great cell service that America's most dependable 5G networks provide for half the cost.

01:04:30.440 They also support small businesses with excellent and affordable business plans.

01:04:34.120 They are powering us here at TCN, so we can vouch for it, and they can probably save you money, too.

01:04:39.820 Find out. Go to puretalk.com slash Tucker today.

01:04:43.020 Switch to a company that aligns with your values.

01:04:46.780 Pure Talk. When you sign up at puretalk.com slash Tucker, you get an additional 50% off your first month.

01:04:52.560 We recommend it.

01:04:54.760 After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something special.

01:05:03.000 Three neurosurgeons, two scientists, one movement disorders coordinator, 58 answered questions, two focused ultrasound procedures, one specially developed helmet, thousands of high-intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions, and that very same day, two steady hands.

01:05:19.300 From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special.

01:05:22.400 Learn more at Sunnybrook.ca slash special.

01:05:24.980 Whether you own a bustling hair salon, a painting company that just landed a big job,

01:05:43.940 or the hottest new bakery in town, you need business insurance that can keep up with your evolving needs.

01:05:55.020 With flexible coverage options from TD Insurance, you only pay for what you need.

01:05:59.440 Get a quote in minutes from TD Insurance today.

01:06:03.520 TD.

01:06:04.740 Ready for you.

01:06:05.660 This is an ad by BetterHelp.

01:06:07.980 What comes to mind when you hear the word gratitude?

01:06:11.300 Maybe it's a daily practice, or maybe it feels hard to be grateful right now.

01:06:15.840 Don't forget to give yourself some thanks by investing in your well-being.

01:06:19.640 BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world, connecting you to qualified professionals via phone, video, or message chat.

01:06:26.720 Let the gratitude flow.

01:06:28.000 Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more and save 10% on your first month.

01:06:32.340 That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com. 1.00

01:06:34.620 Can we just go back to Empowerment Police super quick?

01:06:40.780 So what was the idea during Watergate of forcing the president to spend all the money the Congress sends him?

01:06:48.460 Like, why would you want that?

01:06:50.380 You only want it from the standpoint of control if you want to be able to say,

01:06:54.240 you're going to spend what I tell you you're going to spend.

01:06:56.020 It is nothing more than an institutional desire to force the president to spend X amount of money.

01:07:08.340 But again, it's never just about that.

01:07:10.920 It's always about where they have tried to innovate from really the progressive era.

01:07:15.980 Like, they wanted congressional government.

01:07:18.500 That was the title of Woodrow Wilson's book.

01:07:22.420 He wanted a system where essentially the agencies largely worked out of the Congress or associated with Congress,

01:07:31.720 not unlike what you would see in the House of Commons, right, where their cabinet lives in their House of Parliament.

01:07:39.120 And it's largely, you know, the monarch, the executive over time becomes toothless.

01:07:44.320 That's essentially what they have wanted and have pursued at every turn here.

01:07:48.080 And you saw that on steroids with them using the events of Watergate to promulgate new paradigms and ways of binding the constitutional system from working.

01:08:01.420 So everything post-Watergate is largely, you can just make an assumption it's not the way it was meant to work.

01:08:07.480 And so you have our guys defending post-Watergate paradigms instead of trying to think through,

01:08:13.700 okay, let's go back.

01:08:15.500 Let's go back to what the founders would have actually envisioned.

01:08:18.080 Amazing.

01:08:19.980 Okay.

01:08:20.580 So to your third point, thank you for this, by the way.

01:08:22.840 So to your third point, that the president has to be able to fire people who are subverting democracy.

01:08:31.420 Why can't he?

01:08:32.800 How did federal bureaucrats wind up with a kind of super tenure where no matter what they do, you can't get rid of them? 1.00

01:08:39.780 Like, I don't understand.

01:08:41.640 They work for the public.

01:08:42.860 Right.

01:08:43.980 Laws that have been passed, perhaps not challenged.

01:08:47.780 Laws that have been passed that give them bargaining power, that give them certain processes that have to be followed before they can be dismissed.

01:08:57.580 But I think in that, and it's certainly made it very, very hard to hire and fire.

01:09:02.440 The current system needs to be changed, but it also can be used to deal with these same kind of actors if you're willing to do it.

01:09:11.920 And I don't want to get into all of the tools that are available.

01:09:15.900 Right.

01:09:15.920 But they exist.

01:09:17.280 You know, one of them is the reduction in force.

01:09:20.160 I mean, you can, and Vivek has talked about this.

01:09:22.780 I mean, you can proceed on the basis of what is good for the efficiency and the effectiveness of the agency to be able to dramatically lower at a macro level the size of the workforce.

01:09:38.340 And that will give you certain legal abilities to begin to move people off of the payroll.

01:09:46.200 So there's a lot of things that are being creatively discussed in this space, but it has to be front and center.

01:09:52.480 Schedule F, as President Trump has already run on, that seems to be like a day one thing.

01:09:57.080 He has already instituted in his first term.

01:10:00.560 We just didn't get to get it across the finish line.

01:10:02.480 One, every agency has to go and categories how many of his employees are policy and therefore subject to at-will employment.

01:10:12.260 I put 90% of OMB in that category because I wanted, A, it was true, and B, I wanted to set a high bar for the rest of my colleagues at agency heads that this should be viewed maximally.

01:10:25.700 You're willing to fire your own staff, which is another way of saying you're willing to relinquish some power because personnel, manpower is power.

01:10:32.720 And it's always not just about firing, although there's certainly going to be massive layoffs and firing, particularly across some of the agencies that we don't even think should exist.

01:10:41.080 But what I found was that you get better staff work when people are now in their mind realizing, okay, I'm not immune from all accountability.

01:10:50.820 And I would tell people, you know, you'd have to have these conference calls.

01:10:55.500 We're in the middle of COVID and explain, you know, what we're trying to do.

01:10:58.260 And a lot of people were very upset.

01:11:00.620 I was like, guys, we're Republicans.

01:11:02.960 We don't believe in these, you know, these laws that give you these protections that we think make you less good at your job of serving a particular president.

01:11:13.920 So it's just on its face outrageous, like everyone else in the country faces the vicissitudes of the job market.

01:11:20.000 I've been fired so many times with a lot of kids.

01:11:23.220 And I'm not whining, but most people have been had moments like that where it's like, oh, wow, I'm out of money.

01:11:28.260 Why are the people that we pay with our tax dollars immune to the pressure that the rest of us feel?

01:11:33.640 It's like so crazy and outrageous.

01:11:35.460 And it doesn't mean that you can't tell your boss what you think.

01:11:38.400 Like, that's the most crazy thing in the world.

01:11:41.200 Like, we what?

01:11:42.320 Yeah, I mean, you know, I've worked for some, I've worked for some pretty authoritarian people, by the way, over the years.

01:11:47.660 And the last people I worked for, very nice to me, I will say, but like, they have really strong views on a couple topics.

01:11:53.600 And I like kept my views on those to myself at dinner.

01:11:56.580 Yeah.

01:11:57.340 They're my bosses.

01:11:58.500 I mean, I don't really understand, like, what, how does an entirely separate set of rules apply to our employees, the public's employees, our housekeepers, is how I think of them.

01:12:10.560 They work for us.

01:12:11.620 And when they, when your housekeeper works for you, you get to fire, steals from you, you get to fire her, correct?

01:12:15.980 Yeah.

01:12:16.140 And there's no other way to run any business, any government.

01:12:19.920 But it's like, on what, on what grounds do they get to be treated better than every other category of employee in the world?

01:12:27.860 Yeah. 0.99

01:12:28.120 And they're also some of the suckiest employees. 0.96

01:12:30.800 As the son of a federal employee, I can tell you, some of them are great. 0.98

01:12:34.620 Most are not great.

01:12:35.760 Sub-great.

01:12:36.420 Which is why we have so many contractors running federal agencies, correct?

01:12:39.540 Totally.

01:12:40.040 And that's...

01:12:40.700 Like, why is Deloitte, you know, at NSA?

01:12:43.320 Right. 1.00

01:12:44.000 Because most NSA employees, like, suck. 1.00

01:12:46.240 And they don't come in because of COVID. 1.00

01:12:47.440 They take three-hour lunch breaks.

01:12:48.600 They're, like, not effective.

01:12:50.340 Am I telling the truth here?

01:12:51.660 You're telling the truth.

01:12:52.680 I know.

01:12:52.920 That's why you've got to have a massive effort to dramatically reduce this so that the good ones rise to the top and everyone else is fine in other work.

01:13:03.120 Okay.

01:13:03.680 Sorry to get so wound up.

01:13:04.780 No.

01:13:04.960 So, you know, and then the last thing is dismantling all of the specific things like overclassification, the FBI background checks, all of the things that deny information to the political class

01:13:21.220 that are the political appointees that prevent them from doing their job.

01:13:25.720 Okay.

01:13:26.060 But this is where people start getting murdered or getting cancer or whatever they're doing to maintain control.

01:13:32.140 Because if you start threatening, I think this is why they're terrified of Tulsi Gabbard, you start threatening to expose things, to let the public know what its government is doing,

01:13:39.920 you're going to be exposing crimes because they're committing crimes.

01:13:42.060 I know that for a fact.

01:13:43.200 I know that you know it, too.

01:13:44.240 So that's like kind of a scary mission, is it not?

01:13:49.220 It is.

01:13:49.520 It is one that causes you to count the costs.

01:13:52.800 But the notion...

01:13:54.700 You're so judicious.

01:13:55.940 I love it.

01:13:57.140 Tucker, the reality, and I think this is I would encourage everyone to think this way, there is no place in America where you're going to be protected from the walls closing in on you and your family.

01:14:06.820 And the only extent to which that may not be true yet is the which, you know, Kevin Bacon's degrees of separation, you don't have someone that's immediately in proximity to the FBI raiding their house or being the victim of lawfare.

01:14:23.960 I mean, I know two people very, very closely who have been in jail.

01:14:28.820 I know four people that have multimillion dollar lawsuits.

01:14:33.600 And so they're coming.

01:14:35.880 And the only way to stop that from happening for people that are in this community trying to rebuild from a storm or run their coffee shop, the only way to keep it from happening is for those of us in the political arena to stand tall and unabashedly and to lean forward no matter the costs.

01:14:57.800 And that's the moment that we live in.

01:14:59.760 And so it's not meant to be provocative.

01:15:01.360 It's just meant to know that if you are not loud and proud, that's the wrong way to think about it.

01:15:08.780 But if it is aggressive and public and articulate in how you go about it, it will make it so that more and more people can come along beside you and make it so that the president has enough people that are willing to take on the system.

01:15:25.860 And I believe that he has a growing number of people that are like that and it will make it very difficult for them to move against individual actors.

01:15:34.240 And the nice thing about being out of office is you get to read and kind of understand what happened and have new perspective.

01:15:46.040 And I'm just blown away by the number of people that they went after individually, like like wounded individuals.

01:15:53.880 And we never heard about him.

01:15:55.260 I didn't hear about him until after the administration.

01:15:57.420 It's true.

01:15:57.860 Adam Lovinger, Mark Moyer.

01:16:00.740 These are individuals that blew the whistle on corruption and their agencies conspired with their political appointees to make them go away.

01:16:09.920 And I don't think they'll be able to get away with that this time around.

01:16:14.640 And in some cases really hurt them.

01:16:16.300 They wasted three or four years.

01:16:19.000 You know, they're dealing with stuff in their families.

01:16:21.960 Life happens and you're dealing with the intel agencies, multiple working behind the scenes together, never giving you due process.

01:16:31.080 And I think that is, we know their playbook and we know not only what to look for, but how to be prepared to ensure that that cannot happen again.

01:16:45.660 I've noticed, and I don't think I'm imagining it, that a huge percentage of people who criticize the intel agencies wind up with kiddie porn on their computers. 0.88

01:16:54.000 One of the reasons I don't use a computer, I don't think that's because they're disproportionately perverts. 0.75

01:17:00.900 I don't know why you would use a computer.

01:17:02.340 You know, first of all, you know, you can't respond to anything without it being FOIA'd, right?

01:17:06.540 And so we have to have a totally different view about going into government.

01:17:12.600 But the intel agencies are not allowed, well, most of them are not allowed to operate domestically, period.

01:17:19.720 Well, they were never allowed.

01:17:20.960 They do it, but they're definitely not allowed to play in American politics to influence election outcomes.

01:17:26.560 And they're absolutely doing that.

01:17:27.520 How do you stop that?

01:17:29.860 Well, I think you need to have people that are there who are fearless and obviously Tulsi and RFK and not intel, but saying there are, you know, there are certainly health aspects of national security.

01:17:42.000 Matt being at DOJ, those are the types of people that you need to get under the hood and to push as much as you possible.

01:17:50.220 Well, you've got to shut their funding off until they can prove to your satisfaction that things are – and then –

01:17:57.000 But wait, we're not even allowed to know what their funding is.

01:17:59.760 We don't know what the CIA's budget is.

01:18:02.180 Well –

01:18:02.640 We don't even know, like –

01:18:03.880 When you're within government, you can know those answers.

01:18:06.840 And so those individuals can –

01:18:08.440 You can know the size of the black budgets.

01:18:11.100 Right.

01:18:11.220 So I have never been in government, but I've certainly been around this a lot.

01:18:15.760 They're huge.

01:18:17.520 Yeah.

01:18:17.740 Yeah.

01:18:18.040 No, and –

01:18:18.860 So why do we have black budgets?

01:18:20.880 It's a great question, Tucker.

01:18:22.400 I mean, there's dramatically more transparency needed.

01:18:25.520 And I would say it's one of those areas where not unlike the overclassification, there are things we need to know a lot more about.

01:18:36.960 And I can't tell you, well, what's the optimal level of transparency on that front?

01:18:42.020 But the extent to which you can't have, as a citizen, an understanding of what the size of your IC community is, that's kind of a problem.

01:18:51.920 I just think you're ensuring corruption.

01:18:54.040 And the size of these buildings.

01:18:55.960 Like, you go around and you realize, oh, wow, that alphabet has an enormous institutional presence that the country's never even heard about.

01:19:05.820 Has a real estate footprint that's beyond what you can imagine.

01:19:09.560 I lived as a child with my brother in a house in Georgetown in high school that was owned by CIA.

01:19:16.360 So there's just a lot.

01:19:18.360 You go out to Northern Virginia at Tyson's Corner.

01:19:21.420 Take Chainbridge from D.C. into Northern Virginia.

01:19:23.920 And, like, how many of those office buildings are owned by the CIA or some other intel agency?

01:19:28.640 Like, a huge number.

01:19:30.380 And so –

01:19:30.680 Why can't we know that?

01:19:31.740 I don't understand.

01:19:33.340 We need to know a lot more.

01:19:34.940 And we need to demand that we know more.

01:19:37.460 Like, how is Congress – and, yeah, they can go into a SCIF and they can be given a brief.

01:19:44.100 Debates are supposed to happen on the House and Senate floor.

01:19:47.020 And you can't – you're providing no ability to be able to share with your voters and us as voters whether – do we ever vote for this?

01:19:58.560 Did we ever vote for this military-industrial complex, this intel community, the extent to which it's sprawled all over the country?

01:20:07.060 Like, who got a say in that?

01:20:09.060 It doesn't seem like the intel –

01:20:10.860 I would say it's rather undemocratic.

01:20:12.460 Well, the intel committees, the oversight committees in Congress whose job it is to oversee, restrain, keep the intel agencies within constitutional bounds.

01:20:23.720 I – in my whole life in D.C. from 1985 until now, I've never seen a single member of an intel committee who wasn't in the pocket of the intel agencies.

01:20:31.140 That's my perception.

01:20:32.420 Have you?

01:20:32.720 I don't want to – I would just say this.

01:20:36.420 Devin Nunez was kind of a unique character in his ability to provide leadership in that – and they came after him with everything they got.

01:20:48.680 I know.

01:20:48.800 And he survived.

01:20:50.040 And I think he's a model not unlike that case.

01:20:51.600 When you say they, you mean the intel agencies.

01:20:53.780 The intel agencies.

01:20:54.940 The forces that are, you know, some out-of-government, non-government organizations, the press.

01:20:59.580 Oh, yeah.

01:21:00.140 And working with the intel agencies.

01:21:02.100 Running it through foreign countries.

01:21:03.720 I mean it's never like some guy at Langley, you know.

01:21:07.240 And so what – why don't we have more Devin Nunezes?

01:21:10.540 That would be the question that I would ask is what fear factor is there that – and I'm not making an accusation of anyone.

01:21:18.880 I'm just saying that with all Congress and with all non-government organizations, even our organizations, there's this point where you're like, if I don't – if I go after these individuals, this issue set.

01:21:31.840 Or this area of corruption or this policy set.

01:21:36.180 And I saw it right after Mar-a-Lago was raided and we came out really quickly and said, you know, the FBI should be radically reformed.

01:21:44.020 I think I thought it should be, you know, exploded into a thousand pieces, right?

01:21:48.280 Yeah.

01:21:48.480 So there – why do we have such fear that that is such a provocative position?

01:21:56.380 Because you don't own the government.

01:21:58.200 Right.

01:21:58.660 And so that's –

01:21:59.700 You're just to serve.

01:22:00.200 That's what we've got to go after.

01:22:01.640 And I think it's a systemic issue that we've got to tackle with everything we've got.

01:22:06.300 I couldn't agree more.

01:22:07.600 And you don't have to respond.

01:22:08.600 But I would just say, you know, if there are members of the, you know, intel committees providing oversight of the intel agencies, they shouldn't be allowed to serve if they have spouses who work in the intel community.

01:22:19.100 Sorry.

01:22:19.740 That's like such an obvious conflict that it's pretty ridiculous that that could exist.

01:22:24.020 And yet it does.

01:22:24.600 So tell us on a much happier note – sorry for the dark digression – what exactly are Elon and Vivek going to do, do you think, with this Doge enterprise?

01:22:38.560 Well, I think they're bringing an exhilarating rush to the system of creativity, outside-the-box thinking, comfortability with risk and leverage.

01:22:52.380 Boy, they are comfortable – both those guys are comfortable with risk.

01:22:55.340 I mean, it's amazing.

01:22:55.760 It is amazing.

01:22:56.240 And the reason I love it is, I mean, you – in some respects, this does feel like an intractable problem that we're up against.

01:23:02.260 Yes, yes.

01:23:02.840 Exactly.

01:23:03.720 And I don't think it is, but I think it feels that way.

01:23:05.820 And we're bringing people that, you know, are trying to get to Mars.

01:23:08.980 So I'm pretty sure they can handle, you know, the ability for us to balance our books and run a government that's much more efficient.

01:23:17.280 So I think that the things that I've heard them say are things like really going after or from a deregulatory perspective all of the recent court cases that have said and chopped at the feet of this administrative state.

01:23:34.900 You know, you don't have the ability to just come up with new major questions, you know, rank agency, rank-and-file agency.

01:23:41.620 You've got to have actual specific language from Congress.

01:23:45.740 You don't have the ability to get the deference for every position that you've taken just because you're a federal agency.

01:23:52.380 These have been big axe cuts at the administrative branches.

01:23:59.660 And so I think what they want to do is to use those as the basis for a massive deregulatory agenda and, you know, game on.

01:24:07.500 I also think they want to look for as much that you can do to start cutting costs without Congress or with Congress, but to be really aggressive in some of the areas that I've mentioned.

01:24:20.060 And empowerment would be, you know, a huge part of that, the ability to just not spend the money.

01:24:24.000 And so, and then, of course, you know, being as radical or aggressive as you can in eliminating and reducing employees, you know, full-time employees, individuals, and going after contracts that may not make sense.

01:24:41.920 So I think that that's where they're headed, and I think it'll be an enormous boon to the country.

01:24:48.740 Can you do it from, so neither one of them is going to become a federal employee himself?

01:24:53.340 That's my understanding, correct?

01:24:54.600 That's my understanding as well.

01:24:55.540 I mean, they're not.

01:24:56.320 I'll just say that.

01:24:57.100 So how do you do that from outside?

01:24:59.800 Well, I think that you, you know, they will be working with the agencies that do this.

01:25:05.560 I think they'll be working with OMB, whoever's in that role.

01:25:08.200 They'll be working with Treasury, whoever's in that role.

01:25:11.420 And they will be rallying the theory of the case.

01:25:13.980 I mean, I think ultimately that's what's most needed, Tucker, is a specific theory of the case about what can be done.

01:25:20.660 That's right.

01:25:20.960 And then you give it to the people, and hopefully that's been a two-way conversation, but you give it to the people that are on the president's executive team and his administration, and they run with it.

01:25:32.340 And then you've got Doge out there providing a political support for what must be done.

01:25:37.100 I'm Tucker Carlson for ALP.

01:25:38.420 Now, as you know, the FDA requires us to warn you, well, I'll just read you the warning, quote, warning, this product contains nicotine.

01:25:45.800 Nicotine is an addictive chemical, end quote.

01:25:48.160 We're required to tell you that by the federal government.

01:25:50.580 But we don't shy away from that.

01:25:51.960 It's addictive.

01:25:53.200 And there's an upside to it.

01:25:55.160 Yes, nicotine is an addictive chemical.

01:25:57.720 That is true.

01:25:58.720 There are a lot of things in life you forget, your car keys, your wallet.

01:26:02.200 One thing you're never going to forget is ALP, because nicotine is an addictive chemical.

01:26:07.880 You may forget to put your shoes on in the morning.

01:26:10.360 You may forget to kiss your wife on the way out.

01:26:12.440 You may come home and not remember your own dog's name.

01:26:15.820 But one thing you're not going to forget is your ALP.

01:26:18.680 Why?

01:26:19.320 Because you're addicted to it.

01:26:20.560 Because your body will tell you, hey, better bring your ALP with you. 0.95

01:26:24.380 And you will.

01:26:25.380 I do.

01:26:26.060 I'm never anywhere without my ALP.

01:26:28.580 It's by the side of my bed when I go to sleep.

01:26:30.520 It's there when I wake up in the morning.

01:26:31.740 It's in the front pocket of my pants as I head out into the world.

01:26:34.640 ALP is always with me.

01:26:36.180 It's on the desk as I do interviews.

01:26:38.020 Everywhere I am, ALP is.

01:26:40.040 Because it's an addictive chemical.

01:26:41.620 That's exactly right.

01:26:42.640 And we're not afraid of that.

01:26:43.800 We're not ashamed of it.

01:26:44.620 It's addictive in the same way that air, water, and sex are addictive.

01:26:47.700 They're so great, and you want to do them every day.

01:26:49.740 Thankfully, it's easy to have the ALP with you at all times.

01:26:52.460 Just go to our website, alppouch.com.

01:26:55.340 And never be without it.

01:26:56.660 Nicotine.

01:26:57.400 Yes, it's addictive.

01:26:58.860 That's why we like it.

01:27:00.020 I think that's right.

01:27:18.400 I mean, even just to publicize the ideas, I mean, the U.S. government at this point is like a bankruptcy or stage four cancers.

01:27:25.780 I mean, it's like so overwhelmingly bad that you don't see a way out of it.

01:27:30.140 At least that's how I feel when I assess it from the outside.

01:27:32.500 Like, how would you even fix something like that?

01:27:33.920 I mean, we haven't had any spending reductions in like 20 years, right?

01:27:38.420 Like—

01:27:39.020 But we're bankrupt, right?

01:27:39.880 But we're bankrupt, and there's just this notion that nothing can be done about it.

01:27:43.720 We still pass $100 billion Ukraine checks.

01:27:45.840 Like, even if you thought it was a good idea, like, you can't afford it.

01:27:49.120 Like, you never have the affordability conversation at all.

01:27:52.940 Is that true?

01:27:53.780 That's totally true.

01:27:54.920 Like, literally, no one ever talks about affordability, what we can do.

01:27:58.780 And these foreign heads of state show up and, like, demand money from us.

01:28:04.920 And nobody ever says, you know, I like your country or I don't or whatever.

01:28:08.460 I think you've got a good point, love to help you, but we're just out of dough.

01:28:11.480 Like, nobody even suggests that or dares think that.

01:28:15.320 Like, what is that?

01:28:16.320 They just assume the gravy train's going to keep on going.

01:28:18.880 I dealt with the most within the military, right?

01:28:20.960 But, like, what's that like?

01:28:23.700 Well, they, they, they, they.

01:28:26.780 Well, you've got some road miles on you.

01:28:28.280 You've been, you've done some stuff.

01:28:29.960 Well, you know, I want to understand these things.

01:28:32.520 I want to understand these systems and these institutions, why people say that, what they do.

01:28:37.120 And there's just, there's no understanding whatsoever.

01:28:42.500 There's, like, no fiscal conscience at all with regard to the individuals.

01:28:46.640 It's like, nope, we've got to perform a particular function in the world.

01:28:50.580 I read that somewhere in my educational system.

01:28:53.360 I now believe it.

01:28:54.520 It doesn't matter whether that was never voted on.

01:28:56.600 It doesn't matter if that's kind of anathema to where our founding fathers would have envisioned.

01:29:00.720 And so we are going to maintain our presence everywhere in the country.

01:29:04.760 I, the military, get to define my requirements about what's necessary to win that military objective.

01:29:12.840 You, civilian, don't get to ever question my requirements. 0.99

01:29:15.920 Those requirements now automatically cost X amount of money.

01:29:20.440 And we wonder why we can't ever have any cuts to defense.

01:29:24.460 And we wonder why then defense spending becomes the Praetorian Guard for the non-defense spending.

01:29:30.440 Right.

01:29:30.840 Okay.

01:29:31.240 I know what you're talking about, but will you flesh it out a little bit because I think you've hit on one of the keys.

01:29:35.900 So for, for what we have been unwilling to cut any non-defense spending, the bureaucracy, which is the, quote, discretionary spending, members have a vote on it every single year.

01:29:48.760 They don't have a vote on entitlements.

01:29:51.840 Those are on autopilot.

01:29:53.580 They have a vote on the bureaucracy.

01:29:55.180 So everything they hate about government, their members are voting on.

01:29:58.260 We haven't been able to have cuts to non-defense, not because Republicans are unwilling, although many of them are unwilling as well, but because there has been a view that those two things have to be constantly considered together.

01:30:12.300 And the Democrats insist and Republican hawks insist that defense has to be growing at X percent to deal with the threats in the world.

01:30:23.800 And that requires you to then bring additional non-defense spending to be able to be for that political coalition.

01:30:32.000 And ultimately, if you get your average Republican member, they ultimately care a lot more about the defense stuff than they do about the bureaucracy.

01:30:42.760 Can you say that again?

01:30:44.280 Ultimately, you have your average Republican member cares more about the military industrial complex than they do about the woke and weaponized bureaucracy that is oppressing.

01:30:52.300 They care more about flexing their power abroad than about fixing their own country.

01:30:56.740 I think that's I know that's true because I know I know them.

01:31:01.640 They have zero interest in anything that's happened.

01:31:03.600 Not zero, but they have very limited interest in what's happening in the United States and the, you know, 100,000 people dying of drug ODS every year.

01:31:10.700 That's bad. Yeah, it's so bad.

01:31:11.840 Oh, my heart bleeds.

01:31:12.880 The invasion of more than 10 million foreigners into our country without permission. 1.00

01:31:17.980 No, that's so bad.

01:31:18.840 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:19.280 I got to seal the border.

01:31:20.000 But what they really care about is toppling some government they don't like or moving missiles to this military base or whatever.

01:31:28.920 And why is that?

01:31:30.320 Well, I think it goes to the unhealthiness of the Republican coalition for like 50 years, but particularly in since 1989.

01:31:38.900 Tell me what that means.

01:31:39.720 So your kind of National Review coalition, your fusionist Republican coalition was anti-communist.

01:31:49.860 Yes.

01:31:50.160 It was social conservatives, traditional conservatives.

01:31:52.740 Yes.

01:31:53.140 And it was kind of fiscal libertarians, right?

01:31:55.840 Mm-hmm.

01:31:56.000 That was your coalition.

01:31:57.560 Absolutely.

01:31:58.380 And it worked until, you know, at a certain level when we had the Soviet Union.

01:32:02.740 But when we don't have the Soviet Union, it kind of takes on a life of its own, and now you have to keep us everywhere in the world to be able to justify all of the institutional buildup and the complex that has been built up, all of these, you know, defense industrial companies and things like that. 0.77

01:32:24.120 And Pat Buchanan actually talks about this in his book, where he says, look, this was a specific strategy hatched out of the Department of Defense by some of the neocons at the time to be able to continue to justify the largest from a defense standpoint that we continue to be tied down to.

01:32:43.900 That, I also think, you know, is – so that's a big part of, I think, why your average Republican that grows up thinking like, okay, I'm going to be pro-defense, I'm going to be free market economics, and I'm going to be a social conservative at best, right?

01:33:01.440 Those – that's like – that's what you grow up to be.

01:33:04.120 A hundred percent.

01:33:04.680 And you don't actually then think through, okay, what does that mean?

01:33:07.900 Does that mean I have to then be for every war that's been hatched?

01:33:11.280 Does that –

01:33:11.780 Right.

01:33:11.920 Do I not to be for making a defense that we can actually afford?

01:33:19.420 Does that mean that I think that from an economic standpoint that we're not actually citizens before we're consumers?

01:33:25.400 Like there's just a lot of unhealth in all of those –

01:33:27.800 Yes, and it's not a natural coalition.

01:33:29.860 I mean famously you see this in the Democratic Party where you've got, you know, Hispanic immigrants alongside transgender activists, and they clearly have nothing in common. 0.99

01:33:40.060 And everyone says that.

01:33:41.620 But fewer say the obvious on the Republican side, which is that social conservatives aren't natural pro-war people.

01:33:50.220 Most of them are Christians for one thing. 0.91

01:33:51.680 So why would they be in favor of killing innocents? 0.53

01:33:54.460 Like they're not actually.

01:33:55.980 They're believers in a religion that specifically prohibits that, specifically and repeatedly.

01:34:01.760 So I don't know how they've hung together for so long.

01:34:05.840 I mean, obvious about my position on this.

01:34:07.920 Right. 0.99

01:34:08.140 I find them repugnant, murderous. 0.99

01:34:11.340 So that's my view. 0.98

01:34:12.520 But I don't think I'm alone in that.

01:34:13.900 Like why are Christian conservatives naturally defense hawks?

01:34:16.680 Like that's what I'm saying.

01:34:17.600 Not just defense hawks, war hawks.

01:34:19.480 Like what happened in that?

01:34:21.220 Well, how did Christian conservatives wind up?

01:34:23.280 And I don't want to get too controversial because I don't want to hurt you, but because I want you to get this job.

01:34:27.340 But yeah, I'll just stop there.

01:34:29.340 Yes, I agree without being too specific about it.

01:34:30.880 But there are all kinds of acts of violence against Christians around the world.

01:34:37.140 In fact, it's almost always against Christians.

01:34:38.840 I have noticed that Christian leaders, including the Speaker of the House, like defend on Christian grounds.

01:34:46.140 And I just don't think, obviously I find that evil, but even if I was in favor of it, I would recognize like that's not something that can last for long because it doesn't make any sense.

01:34:54.920 Right.

01:34:55.260 Well, I do believe this is why we need to be less doctrinaire on the right.

01:35:00.600 Gosh.

01:35:01.140 And to think, actually think, you know, and read those books you were mentioning earlier.

01:35:06.420 Read and to be thinking through it, ask the questions and trying to learn more and realize like, you know,

01:35:11.220 Oh, a history book may have been written at a time to just to, to with a particular political benefit and meaning to it.

01:35:18.880 And so maybe we don't take everything, you know, I don't know, maybe some skills we learned in school.

01:35:24.480 Right.

01:35:24.940 And just common sense, intuition.

01:35:28.360 This is, this is a, something that I think is something seems off.

01:35:33.080 It's off.

01:35:34.680 And we.

01:35:35.440 That's, that's a God given skill that we have.

01:35:37.560 We were born with it.

01:35:38.320 I think it was given by God, but even if you don't believe in God, we were born with it and we don't use it.

01:35:42.620 And you see in some of the attacks on RFK, they say, well, this hasn't been proven.

01:35:47.280 There are gaps in our understanding, our scientific understanding.

01:35:50.600 That's like their bureaucratic way of saying, yeah, your intuition's right.

01:35:55.460 We just haven't proved it to be able to.

01:35:57.140 Well, they train you not to use your intuition.

01:35:59.060 It's like, wait a second.

01:36:00.280 And I remember being in high school, reading an abnormal psychology textbook that I bought at the school bookstore that had an entry on autism that was like two paragraphs long as this esoteric disorder whose origins we were uncertain of, whose parameters were unclear.

01:36:16.160 But it was, and I remember thinking, wow, that sounds awful.

01:36:18.120 And, you know, 35 years later, it's like a central feature of life in America.

01:36:23.820 Like, what the hell?

01:36:25.480 And you're trained.

01:36:26.600 And by the way, I don't know what has caused a massive spike in autism, but there has been one.

01:36:31.480 And so it takes a lot of training to get people to ignore that.

01:36:34.880 And I do think the training is all designed to get you to ignore what you, what is obvious.

01:36:38.700 I think it is.

01:36:39.900 I think that that's the systems do it.

01:36:42.040 People get into these and they, that's where they kind of get to the paradigm level.

01:36:44.860 I'm not going to do anything that would hurt national security.

01:36:48.600 I came to D.C.

01:36:49.860 I'm not going to do anything that hurts national security.

01:36:51.760 And I think that's how we lose people when they go into the skiffs, just to go back to our earlier conversation.

01:36:56.820 And you've got to have courage to say, look, what happens if, what happens if your time in office, you missed a big issue?

01:37:04.840 Like, Maha is a new issue to me.

01:37:06.940 I admit it.

01:37:07.800 I'm trying to, I'm trying to read, I'm trying to read the Means book.

01:37:10.240 I read, I listened to your podcast.

01:37:12.280 You know, it's a new issue.

01:37:13.680 But, like, if I didn't get my head wrapped around it, future generations would have to indict me for me being irresponsible on an existential issue facing our country.

01:37:23.300 So I don't think most people think like that.

01:37:25.920 But in general, I think our Republican coalition is unhealthy and has been for a long time because we have, and if we are, the country will be too secular, too imperialistic and global, and too economic.

01:37:41.220 And I come out of the free market economist lane, right?

01:37:44.480 That's where I got my start.

01:37:46.240 But we're not consumers.

01:37:48.500 Like, the notion that the end of all economic good is consumption, and so consumers get the veto and everything, it's not actually what a citizen and a country and a nation are.

01:37:58.080 And so in each of those three—

01:37:59.920 I'm sorry, can you, I feel like you're saying something really important, and I just want to make sure that it's fully explained.

01:38:04.460 What do you mean by that?

01:38:06.120 Too economic.

01:38:07.220 Too economic.

01:38:08.200 So you're not a socialist.

01:38:09.100 I know you're not.

01:38:09.600 No, I'm a free market conservative, right?

01:38:11.400 Of course you are.

01:38:12.160 But I don't believe that just because Facebook is a corporation, that means that they get to not have to answer questions about how big they are, what the impact is on our country.

01:38:27.000 Whether they're wrecking my kid's brain.

01:38:28.340 Amazon giving me, you know, same-day service on a book or, you know, a product is awesome.

01:38:35.320 I love it.

01:38:36.100 But that doesn't mean that everything that Amazon does is something that we shouldn't be thinking through and that our normal disposition of free market economics may make us bad at assessing companies once they get too big.

01:38:55.320 Well, it does seem like there, as you said a second ago, we need to be less doctrinaire.

01:39:02.040 And I, as someone who grew up around, as a conservative, around conservatives, there were these pillars, you know, hawkish on defense, free market, and to a much lesser extent, socially conservative, which no one in D.C. actually took seriously at all.

01:39:16.040 And they had total contempt for people like you.

01:39:18.000 I assume you didn't grow up in D.C.

01:39:19.660 I did not.

01:39:20.400 Right.

01:39:21.380 Thankfully, the son of an electrician and a schoolteacher.

01:39:24.140 Yeah, so this is exactly the kind of person everyone in D.C. despised.

01:39:28.340 Like some Christian electrician. 1.00

01:39:29.840 Please shut up. 1.00

01:39:30.800 That was their view. 0.99

01:39:31.540 Sorry, I'm sure you know that.

01:39:32.660 But it's a fact I was there. 0.99

01:39:33.720 But on the free market stuff, if you asked any questions at all, it was like, shut up, socialist.

01:39:39.580 And you sort of don't want to be a socialist because that hasn't worked.

01:39:42.620 And it was embarrassing.

01:39:43.640 But they kind of maintained control of people on behalf of some of the worst interests in the world by invoking that.

01:39:52.320 That slur.

01:39:52.940 You're a socialist.

01:39:53.480 Oh, you're a socialist.

01:39:54.800 Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:39:55.600 Yeah.

01:39:55.780 I mean, they do in the foreign policy. 1.00

01:39:57.860 That's a – you're a useful idiot for Russia or, you know – 1.00

01:40:00.980 Wait, they call you a useful idiot for Russia? 1.00

01:40:02.860 Well, they're saying that about Tulsi. 1.00

01:40:04.300 They say that about Tulsi, right?

01:40:06.020 Yeah.

01:40:06.520 And so –

01:40:07.040 I've lived that, yes.

01:40:08.180 You've seen that?

01:40:08.900 Yeah, I have, yeah.

01:40:09.560 In every one of these things, when they don't want to have the conversation, they shut it down with a slur.

01:40:14.140 Of course.

01:40:14.540 And that's –

01:40:15.940 But on the economic questions, I think I've been almost hesitant to draw obvious conclusions because I don't believe in government controlling the economy to a greater extent that it does.

01:40:27.860 I just got not good at it and it just – it abets corruption, so I'm against that.

01:40:31.540 But it doesn't mean that we have to, like, be in favor of usury, right?

01:40:37.000 Right.

01:40:37.160 Like, why is it good to charge 20% interest on a credit card?

01:40:41.440 Do I have to nod along with that just because I'm a conservative?

01:40:44.160 And that's where if the coalition was working, you'd have a lot more interesting conversations.

01:40:48.240 Yeah.

01:40:48.680 You know, you'd have your Christian conservatives being upset with that, having debates with the free market coalition to say, like, where's a place that we can land in ways that previously the conversation wasn't?

01:41:02.400 Because in this to say, OK, that's something that would come out of the mouths of our adversaries.

01:41:09.320 And we need more of that, I think.

01:41:10.940 And you're going to see it in trade, right?

01:41:12.640 Like –

01:41:13.240 Yeah.

01:41:13.500 Trade's like the one big domino that the president, I think, finally has now toppled with his election.

01:41:19.860 But there will be a sizable number of Republicans that are very grudgingly going along or opposed to what he wants to do with what I think is a no-brainer policy with regard to universal tariffs and higher tariffs for China.

01:41:34.320 And I want the money to be able to balance the books, but I also want this country to be a manufacturing-producing hub.

01:41:41.400 And what I found, Tucker, is that even I can win arguments with those who are free traders because they themselves have ceded the ground of independence.

01:41:54.960 You know, if you're comfortable with other countries making your stuff that may or may not be important from a national security standpoint or just period because we don't want to have to wait for six months to have a refrigerator, you know, if you want independence, you've got to make it here.

01:42:12.480 If you don't want to have to rely on China and have Xi shut down his whole economy because he's dealing with the COVID, then the answer is independence.

01:42:23.080 And how do you get to making things more here?

01:42:25.260 And just – I also zoom out from a standpoint of like –

01:42:27.160 If my parents are paying my rent, I'm still a child.

01:42:29.300 It doesn't matter how old I am.

01:42:30.460 Right.

01:42:30.720 That's right.

01:42:31.100 And like there is a balance in every community.

01:42:33.560 We're not all going to be carpenters or plumbers or electricians, right?

01:42:36.620 Like you're not going to be independent as a person or a community across the board.

01:42:41.160 But you would kind of hate it if we didn't have any carpenters in your community, right?

01:42:46.200 You'd hate it if you didn't have any plumbers in your community.

01:42:49.520 And we've gotten to the point as a country where we don't make this stuff anymore.

01:42:54.900 And that's a real problem.

01:42:56.560 And I think it's just kind of an intuition way of getting at something that has been suppressed for decades.

01:43:04.240 What has been suppressed and there are specific institutions that have made it their mission to suppress it.

01:43:08.800 One is the Wall Street Journal.

01:43:09.900 The other is the American Enterprise Institute, which for my whole life, 55 years, have been sort of leading standards in the right-wing firmament.

01:43:19.800 You know, AEI, Wall Street Journal, like people really care on the right what they have to say.

01:43:25.500 And I can't wait for both of them to collapse.

01:43:27.240 I will celebrate. 0.81

01:43:27.880 I really will celebrate when they go under.

01:43:31.320 And I mean that.

01:43:32.540 But like why haven't people who want to put the country first, its actual interest first, built their own institutions to rival the Wall Street Journal and AEI?

01:43:41.400 I don't get it.

01:43:42.200 This has been my life's work for the last four years.

01:43:45.420 And hopefully, you know, over the next 50 is, if I live that long.

01:43:49.900 50?

01:43:50.400 How old are you, Russ?

01:43:51.360 That's a little excessive.

01:43:52.480 Well, you're big in the Maha thing now.

01:43:54.440 So maybe it's possible.

01:43:55.080 Right, you know, get that 50 on.

01:43:58.100 Look, I think this is what is needed as new institutions.

01:44:01.920 It's why we created the Center for Renewing America, because we wanted to make sure there was a home to give elites, both in D.C. and in the grassroots, this is actually how you do what's necessary to be done.

01:44:15.180 So like if President Trump gives a speech in the first term or you from your show are articulating something that must be done, we felt there needed to be an institution to actually take that and turn it into the regulations, the translating into actually public policy.

01:44:32.900 And that has to be new.

01:44:35.660 Some exceptions exist.

01:44:37.120 I mean, Kevin is doing a great job at Heritage.

01:44:39.360 But that's the exception rather than the rule.

01:44:41.340 My view is that you've got to create new institutions that are scrappy, are hungry.

01:44:48.720 It doesn't take them two weeks to write a paper.

01:44:50.940 It takes them one day to write a paper.

01:44:52.620 You get it out there.

01:44:53.580 And if that paper is not read, you go and you like get it in front of people so that they understand it.

01:44:58.780 And then when they have read it and you figure out, why haven't you acted on it?

01:45:01.920 What's, you know, like you have to work it hard.

01:45:05.540 And that's going to come from from not sitting around a board table at a prestigious organization.

01:45:09.840 That's going to come from people who are hardened, battle tested and really awesome in their mind as to what they what they think and what they know.

01:45:18.660 I mean, since we've moved toward an economy where, like, you can't really do anything without a billionaire on your side, I've noticed.

01:45:25.320 Luckily, you know, good people now have Elon Musk.

01:45:28.300 He's our billionaire, which is great.

01:45:30.940 But big picture, it's super bad to need a billionaire to do anything meaningful.

01:45:36.660 And you wonder, are Republican donors coming around to the idea that, you know, America needs to be saved and and that what we've been doing isn't working?

01:45:47.160 Do you think they see this?

01:45:48.660 Look, there's a lot of awesome conserved donors.

01:45:51.660 There are.

01:45:52.260 Yeah, you would know.

01:45:53.160 And many of them are coming to our banner over time.

01:45:57.360 I think the issue is, you know, do they know about your organization, the impact?

01:46:01.540 And there's a lot of grift on the on.

01:46:03.440 And that's the problem is, like, you've got to kind of show yourself.

01:46:06.300 There's so much grift, right?

01:46:07.500 It's unbelievable.

01:46:08.740 You kind of have to acknowledge, you know, there's a lot of grift out here.

01:46:11.460 But at the same time, do everything you can to just get up in the morning and do your job and do it effectively.

01:46:15.720 And then people come where I feel like the issue is, is that with everyone, you're educating them on the same journey that I think you have.

01:46:23.560 I think you've talked about it and I know I have of of this trying to like what's what has been off about conservatism for a while and been I think the reason why we have lost and been on the edge of tyranny.

01:46:35.820 And sometimes there are there are there are folks that still have viewpoints on that.

01:46:41.060 Like when we took Ukraine, we were the first organization out to oppose Ukraine funding.

01:46:45.600 That was risky, right?

01:46:47.120 Because Putin had just invaded and gone over.

01:46:50.840 And we don't we didn't want that.

01:46:52.340 But we knew where this was headed.

01:46:54.080 And that was a long time for us to educate all states.

01:46:57.600 Can I just ask now I'm being like mean and bitter, but why would anybody who thought that was a good idea have power ever again?

01:47:06.300 Like, shouldn't that be a litmus test?

01:47:07.980 I do.

01:47:08.500 I do believe Ukraine should be a litmus test for the national security team for sure. 0.82

01:47:12.800 Well, it hasn't been, unfortunately.

01:47:14.240 Well, it's certainly in terms of like getting a read on where someone is and then you can have whatever conversations you want to have with them.

01:47:21.840 But like that was obvious to me. 0.99

01:47:23.400 I'm just a stupid cable news host. 1.00

01:47:25.700 Not a national security expert. 1.00

01:47:27.760 But I've been around it a lot.

01:47:29.320 I'm just trying to apply common sense like that was so obvious in February of 2022.

01:47:33.980 This was going to hurt the United States in very serious ways.

01:47:37.340 And it has.

01:47:38.140 And it has.

01:47:38.880 And so over time, that coalition, that conversation we're having about what conservatives need, what does conservatism need to be to save the country?

01:47:48.380 Not protecting, you know, your little niche within that, but to save the country.

01:47:52.600 You were given resources to do nothing else but to save the country.

01:47:57.260 And that's what your donors are giving that conversation on the ideas.

01:48:01.400 It's why when you come to one of our events with our donors, I hand out books.

01:48:06.180 Like I want – I don't want you to just necessarily read our policy paper.

01:48:09.980 I'm sure you're going to do that anyways.

01:48:11.160 I want you reading Waker Chambers.

01:48:13.460 I want you reading Rusty Reno, Return of the Strong Gods, right?

01:48:18.120 I want you reading this stuff.

01:48:20.000 We're giving out Pat Buchanan books.

01:48:21.660 Like I want the whole conservative movement to be going deep in these books so that you're both enlightened, encouraged, and you come out of fighting for us, whether you are the practitioner here in D.C., the funder on the outside.

01:48:36.140 And that is a – and that's a long-term project, honestly.

01:48:41.140 But I think it's one that's absolutely vital.

01:48:43.080 Well, last question.

01:48:44.660 In retrospect, one of the things I'm most guilty about was being used by – well, Bill Kristol in particular.

01:48:50.740 But just as a young man, I was used by the forces that control Washington to attack both Ross Perot and especially Pep Buchanan.

01:49:00.540 You know, whatever.

01:49:01.380 They're human beings.

01:49:02.020 They have flaws, obviously.

01:49:03.700 But big picture, they were kind of right about a lot of stuff, correct?

01:49:07.420 Yeah, they were absolutely right.

01:49:08.600 They were.

01:49:09.100 They were.

01:49:09.640 Yeah.

01:49:09.960 And this has been an undercurrent that has been popped up at times but is largely suppressed by the Republican establishment and their intellectual Praetorian Guard.

01:49:20.560 National Review and others.

01:49:22.560 And Pat Buchanan was a major opportunity for it to punch through and then Donald Trump really punched through.

01:49:29.840 And now it's ascendant.

01:49:31.480 And it's about us going back and trying to think through, like, what are some of these – what do these viewpoints mean?

01:49:39.080 Like, where were they right?

01:49:39.900 Were wrong?

01:49:41.020 What does it look like in health?

01:49:42.500 What does it look like with AI?

01:49:44.500 What does it look like in all of these different areas?

01:49:46.540 Because – but I think it's primarily remembering that we're not – we're individuals with souls.

01:49:53.200 We're a nation.

01:49:54.360 We're not just an economy.

01:49:56.320 These are the kinds of kind of first building blocks that if you get in place, then you can have a much more coherent, convincing, and satisfying public policy life.

01:50:05.400 But ultimately, you know, I think it's like Whitaker Chambers married to Pat Buchanan married to someone like a Donald Trump.

01:50:12.940 I think that movement over time is something that trying to find out how to give it flourish in life and institutions and will ultimately be successful in saving the country.

01:50:26.380 Man, if you wind up with this administration, I will sleep better.

01:50:28.720 I mean that.

01:50:29.620 So thank you, Russ.

01:50:30.340 I appreciate it.

01:50:30.900 Thanks for having me, Tucker.

01:50:31.500 Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson Show.

01:50:35.420 If you enjoyed it, you can go to tuckercarlson.com to see everything that we have made, the complete library, tuckercarlson.com.

The Tucker Carlson Show - November 18, 2024

Tucker Carlson and Russ Vought Break Down DOGE and All of Trump’s Cabinet Picks So Far

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript