The Tucker Carlson Show - Tucker Carlson Hosts The Charlie Kirk Show

00:00:00.000 It's Tucker Carlson. I'm honored to be sitting in to host the Charlie Kirk Show today.

00:00:05.760 I flew in from the East Coast last night and was thinking about what to do today for two hours.

00:00:12.920 And there's all this very ugly drama swirling around the Republican Party, the right, the memory of Charlie Kirk.

00:00:21.280 And I just thought, and I've got, of course, strong opinions.

00:00:23.600 I have strong opinions about everything, and I've expressed them.

00:00:25.700 But I thought I really need a break from that, and I don't think that any of it reflects who Charlie was fundamentally.

00:00:32.200 Who was Charlie fundamentally? He was a Christian man, and Jesus was the center of his life.

00:00:36.860 That was obvious to anyone who knew him. It emerged in conversation immediately when you talked to him.

00:00:42.300 That's just a fact about Charlie. His life was about following Jesus, period.

00:00:47.440 And so I think the best way to explain who he was is to spend the next two hours talking about Jesus and Charlie's relationship with him.

00:00:55.340 And so I'm going to be really happy to do that. This will be the happiest conversation about Charlie Kirk, I hope, all week.

00:01:04.180 And so, as I said, I'm hosting, but I have no idea how the show works. I literally don't know, though I've done it.

00:01:10.260 But luckily, Andrew and Blake are here, who I know very well.

00:01:14.700 I've actually worked with Blake for years in another life. We're both grateful to be gone from that.

00:01:18.520 But Andrew is really going to be running in and out. We have these things called breaks, and you've got commercials and all that.

00:01:25.000 Yeah, we've got a show to run here.

00:01:26.520 A show to run!

00:01:27.660 But you know what?

00:01:28.300 I'm just not suited for that.

00:01:29.000 But listen, we'll blow the breaks when we have to, so if you're watching on stream, if you're watching on Real America's Voice,

00:01:34.400 you're watching on a video platform, you'll probably be fine. We're just going to have fun today.

00:01:38.840 Good. Well, with you in charge of the details, I know that that will happen.

00:01:44.140 Correct.

00:01:44.620 Blake, it's wonderful to see. We talked on the phone the other day. I've been thinking about you every single day.

00:01:50.080 So I hope you're holding up, and I'm grateful that you're here.

00:01:53.560 So, yeah, I want to talk about Charlie's relationship with Jesus, and I'm amazed.

00:01:59.300 I have a whole list of thoughts or soundbites here.

00:02:02.980 I asked for Charlie talking about God in public, and I'm just kind of amazed what came back.

00:02:08.640 I mean, there really—

00:02:09.780 It was a deluge.

00:02:10.340 It was unbelievable, because there's really no one in public life who talked about Jesus more than Charlie Kirk.

00:02:19.400 And I'll just—now I'm revealing one of my ugly biases, but some of the people whose job it is to talk about Jesus are not, you know,

00:02:26.620 I don't think is credible and believable. I'm just being honest, as I think Charlie was.

00:02:30.540 He really meant it. He wasn't being paid to say it.

00:02:33.540 I think everything that he did, everything that he thought, the way he lived, were all informed by his love of Jesus.

00:02:41.220 And I don't think I'm overstating it. I said this to him recently when he was at my house in Maine.

00:02:45.340 I really—you remind me of Paul. Like, you never stop.

00:02:48.980 I stop. I like to go fishing. I like to go bird hunting.

00:02:52.640 I like to hang out on Saturday morning and bed with my wife and, like, you know, BS with my wife and all that stuff.

00:02:58.680 But Charlie just did not allow himself any of that.

00:03:01.960 He was so driven, and you can see it now maybe as part of a larger plan where he never wasted a minute.

00:03:08.220 He forced himself to get on the airplane and to do things that were really, really hard in a way that I've never done.

00:03:14.520 I'll just admit it.

00:03:15.400 And I think that was because he felt God had a plan for him, that he was on a mission.

00:03:21.360 It wasn't just about getting somebody elected.

00:03:23.480 It was about something bigger than that.

00:03:25.560 Am I—well, I'll just ask you first, Andrew, and then Blake.

00:03:29.000 Do you think that's—I'm reading too much into it, or do you think that's right?

00:03:31.540 No, I totally agree, and I've had wave after wave of revelation of what we were actually doing.

00:03:39.800 You know, I was so in the weeds.

00:03:41.380 We were so in the weeds that it was impossible to fully understand even what we were doing.

00:03:47.200 But I—

00:03:47.640 Yes, exactly.

00:03:48.620 And I—Charlie and I bonded at the very earliest days because we were both, like, really strong Christians, and that was such a central part of who we were.

00:03:57.660 But we didn't—we, you know, we didn't talk about it all the time necessarily publicly.

00:04:01.640 But as the years went on, we both knew that we had each other in that way.

00:04:07.040 And I've—there's two tweets that I've posted.

00:04:10.280 I have realized in the days hence that he was a prophet, not a fortune teller like people think of prophecy.

00:04:19.280 He was like a biblical prophet that would go into a nation and call it to repent.

00:04:22.920 That's what he was doing.

00:04:23.660 He was going to these campuses, and he was going on stage, and he was going on this show and the podcast, and he was calling a nation to repent.

00:04:30.340 He went to London, and he called England to repent at Cambridge and Oxford.

00:04:34.760 And they hurled insults at him.

00:04:37.480 They mocked him.

00:04:38.160 They jeered him, just like the biblical prophets.

00:04:40.300 They wanted to stone him, and ultimately they killed him.

00:04:42.460 And that is what Jesus said.

00:04:43.660 He said, what did they do to the prophets?

00:04:45.200 They killed him.

00:04:46.300 And now the other revelation—

00:04:47.800 You're making me emotional again, because I know that what you're saying is true.

00:04:51.980 And the other revelation is specifically about these campus tours.

00:04:55.060 We called them campus tours.

00:04:56.860 They were tent revivals.

00:04:58.080 Yes.

00:04:58.960 Complete with the tent, Tucker.

00:05:01.400 That's so—I don't know why I didn't really see any of these.

00:05:04.540 I didn't either, as it was happening.

00:05:05.980 You say that, and I just like to envision, like, George Whitefield, like, being, you know—

00:05:09.660 He loved them.

00:05:10.380 Jesus was sent as a savior and must be accepted to be saved.

00:05:14.340 Prove me wrong.

00:05:15.340 Yeah, I know.

00:05:16.480 I know, but it's so clear to me now.

00:05:19.340 It's so clear to me.

00:05:20.360 And me too.

00:05:20.780 I don't know.

00:05:21.440 It's—yeah, I don't know how I missed that.

00:05:23.700 I don't know why I thought it was, like, political organizing or something, which, like, on one level it was, but that's not—well, you guys were there all—the whole time.

00:05:33.640 I mean, it was more than that.

00:05:34.860 It was.

00:05:35.480 It was.

00:05:35.960 And really, knowing him over the past almost three years, that was what I would always tell people who would ask about Charlie.

00:05:45.560 And it's so funny where, like, they'd always just open, like, is Charlie smart?

00:05:49.320 And I'd be like, yes, but that's kind of besides the point.

00:05:51.460 Like, the amazing thing with him is not his IQ or, like, how much—how many, like, facts he can know or something.

00:05:58.300 What was amazing with him was his drive.

00:06:01.220 The way I would say it, it was like he was the highest agency person I had ever met in my life.

00:06:05.660 Yes.

00:06:05.920 He thought, if there is something I don't like, I have the power as an individual to change the world about that.

00:06:12.580 Or at least, if I don't take action, I have no excuse to complain about it.

00:06:17.000 And he brought that to politics and organization, of course, but he especially brought it to the faith question.

00:06:22.800 And he always, always wanted to talk about it.

00:06:25.800 He loved talking about it in private.

00:06:27.140 He loved talking about it in places where it was, you know, arguably pointless.

00:06:33.780 The last speech he kind of gave in public was we were in Japan.

00:06:38.000 And Japan is 1% Christian, maybe.

00:06:41.840 We were speaking to a party there that's, you know—you know, we're aligned with them because they're anti-immigration.

00:06:48.260 They don't like globalism.

00:06:49.280 We were talking to them about all that stuff.

00:06:51.140 He was like, yo, you should increase your birth rate.

00:06:52.780 Don't rely on immigrants and all that.

00:06:54.380 But Japan is famously resistant to Christianity.

00:06:56.520 Yes, yes.

00:06:57.840 And I told him about that.

00:07:00.080 But, you know, in Korea, we talked about Christianity.

00:07:02.560 And there it was a Christian audience, mostly.

00:07:04.460 But he said, he's like, you know, is there somewhere I can work in the faith angle to this?

00:07:09.660 Because, you know, we're supposed to preach it everywhere, everywhere we go.

00:07:13.300 And so we talked about that.

00:07:14.580 You know, what could we do?

00:07:15.720 And we found a spot late in the speech.

00:07:18.100 And the very end of his speech, he was saying, look, guys, I want you to save your country.

00:07:22.700 But in the end, you're going to have to believe in something transcendent.

00:07:26.520 For that to work.

00:07:27.280 It's not just going to work on pragmatic grounds.

00:07:30.280 And for me, and then he just, you know, for me, it's because of my belief in the Almighty, my belief in Jesus Christ.

00:07:36.840 And you're going to need to have something like that to be able to win.

00:07:42.720 And, you know, I think two people in the audience started clapping really, really energetically.

00:07:46.880 And the rest kind of sat there very politely, as the Japanese do.

00:07:49.280 But you did get a couple people.

00:07:50.560 Oh, the Japanese are wonderful people.

00:07:52.200 But you're right.

00:07:53.180 They're not open to that.

00:07:54.880 But there were two who were.

00:07:56.140 Yeah.

00:07:56.920 Maybe they were believers.

00:07:58.000 I'm not sure.

00:07:58.680 But, you know, I'm very glad he got to do that.

00:08:01.960 And in Korea, though, Korea, a very different story.

00:08:07.500 We have this clip.

00:08:08.500 Why don't we just play it, if it's okay, Tucker?

00:08:10.380 Oh, my gosh.

00:08:10.880 Take cut, 18.

00:08:11.640 Take cut, 18.

00:08:11.660 Take cut, 18.

00:08:11.680 Take cut, 18.

00:08:40.880 All right.

00:08:46.640 That was 11 days ago, Tucker.

00:08:49.360 And he's on stage.

00:08:51.480 And in English, they asked him to come forward and pray and sing over Charlie.

00:08:55.940 And they put their hands up.

00:08:57.140 And they started in English saying, how great is our God?

00:09:00.260 Sing with me, how great is our God?

00:09:02.440 And Charlie put his hand on his heart.

00:09:04.340 And Mikey said when he got off stage, like, he could see his eyes were misty.

00:09:08.060 It meant so much to him.

00:09:08.960 But Melbourne's one of the darkest cities, really, in the world.

00:09:12.120 There are good things about Melbourne.

00:09:13.140 But basically, it's in enemy hands.

00:09:15.240 And, boy, do you feel it when you're there.

00:09:16.820 And I was like, I got to go to church.

00:09:18.040 So I go, of course, to the Anglican Church, which is my denomination.

00:09:21.040 It's now a museum filled with Chinese tourists.

00:09:23.500 I was like, oh, this is the worst.

00:09:25.440 I'm feeling despondent.

00:09:26.740 I go next door to the Scottish Church, the Presbyterian Church.

00:09:30.280 Beautiful, beautiful church, like, and beyond.

00:09:33.360 And there's no one in it except at the front.

00:09:35.760 And it's, like, 100 yards away.

00:09:37.320 For me, it felt like there's this little group of people singing, and it's Koreans.

00:09:41.300 And this Korean congregation of, like, nine people has taken over the church, rented it on Sundays.

00:09:46.500 Because, of course, no whites are going to church, of course.

00:09:48.920 And I just thought to myself, this was God's way of reassuring me that even though the world that I grew up in is gone and totally, you know, everyone's fallen away and it hasn't worked at all, that Jesus still lives.

00:10:03.100 But, you know, his name is spoken in other languages.

00:10:06.380 And one of those is Korean.

00:10:07.900 And there's something about watching Koreans worship that just, oh, it's my favorite thing ever.

00:10:13.260 I totally agree.

00:10:14.360 They are absolute prayer warriors.

00:10:16.300 But I just believe this, Tucker, and I have to say this, like, in this moment.

00:10:19.660 I believe God is unleashing a new revival.

00:10:22.640 Yes.

00:10:23.240 On this country.

00:10:24.220 And Charlie is the spark that is igniting it.

00:10:27.760 I completely agree.

00:10:28.640 And I don't even want to say it's his death.

00:10:30.900 It's the start of his eternal life and his eternal glory, his immortality.

00:10:35.260 And I believe that he is seated with God in heaven and he's seated in glory.

00:10:41.220 And I believe that there's a reason that Charlie and Erica would look at each other and say, you know, our mission is to make heaven crowded.

00:10:49.660 And I believe that that is actually the real mission and that is actually going to be happening right now.

00:10:57.040 It's happening in our midst right now.

00:10:58.860 And it's sweeping the country.

00:11:01.100 And there was a story I just heard on the drive here this morning that they ran out of baptism space.

00:11:06.980 They just kind of did an impromptu baptism space at one of my friend's churches.

00:11:10.400 And so they went out in the parking lot and started dunking people in the fountain.

00:11:14.460 Hundreds of them.

00:11:15.200 Protestants are fun.

00:11:16.460 I just love that.

00:11:18.220 If I can just say a word, I mean, I don't get involved in the Protestant Catholic Orthodox thing because I'm just for Jesus.

00:11:24.400 But if I could just stick up just for one second for my people.

00:11:28.980 Protestants were real ones.

00:11:30.540 Like they built this country.

00:11:31.600 They did.

00:11:31.920 I'm sorry.

00:11:32.340 It's a fact.

00:11:34.260 And they really believed in God.

00:11:36.080 And they, you know, they were on the right path.

00:11:38.180 They were amazing people.

00:11:39.220 And I'm very aware that they've declined to the point where I make fun of them constantly.

00:11:43.880 But there was something very, very real there.

00:11:47.180 Very real.

00:11:48.480 Sorry.

00:11:48.860 Well, the circuit riders in the...

00:11:50.340 I feel like I have to say that.

00:11:51.660 No, no, no.

00:11:52.140 No, I mean, listen, in there, as I'm somebody, both Erica and I were cradle Catholics, right?

00:11:57.900 We did the First Communion and we did the Catechism and the, you know, the...

00:12:02.820 Anyways, I went to Catholic high school even.

00:12:05.500 Did you go to Catholic high school?

00:12:06.500 No.

00:12:07.000 Long story.

00:12:07.960 Long story involving the Senate race in 2002.

00:12:10.380 But the point is...

00:12:11.020 My parents moved me to public schools.

00:12:13.260 I ended up getting saved in college.

00:12:15.720 Very, very, very non-denominational evangelical way to phrase it.

00:12:19.320 I got saved in college, radically saved.

00:12:22.000 So I had this Catholic background, but then I found myself in a non-denominational setting

00:12:26.520 alone at a school in Seattle.

00:12:29.700 That is...

00:12:30.000 Like the second least church city in the country.

00:12:32.280 Right.

00:12:32.780 And I ended up getting radically saved.

00:12:35.000 And so...

00:12:36.040 But I've never cared about the distinctions.

00:12:38.060 I love both.

00:12:39.200 Yeah, I agree.

00:12:39.960 You know, I might have petty, minor little theological differences.

00:12:43.560 Yes.

00:12:44.000 Doesn't matter.

00:12:44.720 I love them both.

00:12:45.320 I don't understand.

00:12:45.720 Because of my path here, I never cared.

00:12:49.140 Anyone who focuses on Jesus is my brother.

00:12:52.400 That's how I feel.

00:12:53.560 And I agree with you 100%.

00:12:55.840 And if you let your...

00:12:56.600 It's a little bit like Twitter, actually.

00:12:58.500 If you think about it too much, you end up hating everybody, and you miss the commonality

00:13:04.420 between people, and the commonality between Christians is Jesus, period.

00:13:07.720 And if you think about, well, I'm mad about transubstantiation, or like, the last pope

00:13:13.040 was horrible.

00:13:13.800 Mariology.

00:13:14.280 Which he was.

00:13:15.580 I'm so sad we didn't get to just have that full debate.

00:13:18.420 We wanted to have just a straight, like, just for fun, like, let's debate Mary.

00:13:22.540 No, I'm not doing that!

00:13:24.080 Let's do it.

00:13:24.560 Talk to your next radio.

00:13:25.700 No, we're not doing that.

00:13:25.720 But we wanted to do it with Charlie, and now we can't.

00:13:28.380 I'm not doing that.

00:13:29.260 And one of the things, I hope you guys live to your 50s, because, and I'm sure you will,

00:13:35.440 but because when you get there, you're like, wow, I've been wrong about so much.

00:13:39.420 And you think that middle-aged people are wishy-washy, and low testosterone does account for some

00:13:43.660 of that, just a fact.

00:13:44.860 But part of it is just the recognition of how wrong you've been.

00:13:49.200 And that is the Christian, forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.

00:13:54.780 It's like, first you meditate on how fallen you are, and then you realize you don't have

00:13:59.780 a basis upon which to judge other people, actually, and you can forgive them.

00:14:03.300 And that is the process that's prescribed in the Lord's Prayer.

00:14:05.860 Of course, it's the center of Christianity, but it's also just like a human process,

00:14:09.380 and you get there, and you realize, like, yeah, I'm mad about Mary.

00:14:12.880 That's a fact, okay?

00:14:14.040 But then I get older, and my wife's like, oh, I was just saying the rosary, my very Protestant

00:14:18.080 wife, and I love it.

00:14:19.020 It brings me closer to Jesus.

00:14:19.920 And I'm like, I'm not judging anymore.

00:14:21.320 I really want people to understand, Tucker, you and Charlie had such a unique and special

00:14:27.900 bond and relationship.

00:14:29.380 It was a deep friendship, and you both had each other's back in an incredible way.

00:14:34.820 Well, he had my back.

00:14:35.220 You had his back, too.

00:14:36.280 I know those stories as well.

00:14:37.980 Yeah.

00:14:38.340 And I promised I wouldn't get into any of that, but I will say, and I'm not going to,

00:14:41.200 but I will say, because I want this to be about Jesus and his love for Jesus and what

00:14:46.900 he did to spread the word of Jesus throughout the world.

00:14:48.740 But I will just say this, that whenever I would come and do a gig for you guys, which

00:14:54.160 was a lot, because I really enjoyed it, and he was so kind to invite me and defend my being

00:14:57.860 there, but I would always, he's the only person I did this with, I would always say, hey, you

00:15:02.900 know, let's, like, meet in my hotel room or have a meal.

00:15:06.360 Like, oh, I loved talking to him.

00:15:09.640 And it wasn't just to catch up on everything that's going on in the political world.

00:15:12.560 He would always bring it back to God every single time.

00:15:15.460 And it was so, there was no one around, like, so he didn't need to be like, oh, yeah, I

00:15:19.740 really love God.

00:15:20.760 It was like, just us.

00:15:22.460 And he'd be talking about that.

00:15:23.380 And you would come to Phoenix and you would reach out to, I knew, I, it was like, I have

00:15:27.200 so many memories of Charlie being like, I can't, I got to do dinner.

00:15:29.960 Who are you doing dinner with?

00:15:30.680 Oh, Tucker's in town.

00:15:31.400 I got to meet up with him.

00:15:32.120 Always, always.

00:15:33.200 And he was so intellectually curious and flexible.

00:15:36.420 And I think that also grew out of his Christian faith.

00:15:39.680 And I know that as I've gotten older, it's been one of the things I appreciate most about

00:15:43.500 believing in God is, like, you can admit when you're wrong.

00:15:46.280 You can change your views.

00:15:48.620 Paul, who created a lot of the early church, was the chief persecutor of Christians.

00:15:52.840 He was a freaking Pharisee.

00:15:54.560 So, like, in our religion at its core is the fact that God can change people.

00:15:59.040 And so you don't need to be brittle and afraid about admitting that, yeah, I was totally

00:16:03.960 off base.

00:16:04.580 And Charlie was so much like that.

00:16:06.720 He was constantly thinking about, is this the right thing?

00:16:08.580 Is that the right thing?

00:16:09.600 Like, there's no one in public life who does that.

00:16:11.700 It's so easy for, like, religion, you know, for sometimes people use religion as an excuse

00:16:16.120 for megalomania.

00:16:17.260 Yes.

00:16:17.680 And Charlie was so humble, genuinely humble.

00:16:20.060 Thank you for saying that.

00:16:21.100 We would have these moments.

00:16:22.000 Thank you for saying that.

00:16:22.700 And on this note, we'd have these moments and I'd be like, can you freaking believe what's

00:16:26.300 going on?

00:16:26.900 You're on South Park or whatever.

00:16:28.200 All on God.

00:16:28.800 And he would say, stay humble, stay close to Jesus.

00:16:32.300 That would be the type of, we need to stay humble, we need to stay close to Jesus.

00:16:35.320 Really?

00:16:35.820 Yes.

00:16:36.640 This is in his private text of people he works with.

00:16:39.380 I have a story like this, too, and I'm ashamed that I am the villain in this story.

00:16:44.780 Basically, it was two weeks before he died, and I'll never forget it.

00:16:50.140 There was just some annoyance that was, you know, in our way, and we needed to deal with

00:16:54.920 something.

00:16:55.200 I can't even remember what it was.

00:16:56.700 And I just remember going, hey, you know, we could just tell them X, Y, Z.

00:17:01.220 And translation, we could just, you know, a little white lie and it'll go away.

00:17:04.720 They'll understand.

00:17:05.300 And I remember seeing the dots.

00:17:07.920 He was typing right away.

00:17:09.920 Right away.

00:17:11.620 We don't lie.

00:17:12.560 It was a private message with me.

00:17:16.640 I love that.

00:17:17.040 And it wasn't, you don't lie.

00:17:18.760 It's not, I don't lie.

00:17:19.680 It was, Andrew, we here on the show and this turning point, we don't lie.

00:17:27.080 Well, and not only don't lie, I mean, without even getting into it, but like, if you run

00:17:32.540 a huge nonprofit, and DC is all about huge nonprofits, I know everyone who runs them,

00:17:36.640 boy, there are temptations, and there was never any of that here, ever.

00:17:41.700 And Troy and I talked about that a lot.

00:17:43.660 Like, here are the pitfalls in a man's life.

00:17:45.840 Here's how people get ensnared.

00:17:47.480 It happened to David.

00:17:48.560 I mean, we know this is a thing.

00:17:51.300 He was so, and again, I just had this conversation with him right before he died, because I'm

00:17:57.320 very focused on it, because I've seen so many people destroy themselves.

00:18:00.920 And it's clearly like Satan acting on them.

00:18:03.260 Fact.

00:18:03.820 Sorry.

00:18:04.760 And he was like, he was a narrow path walker.

00:18:08.800 And I just have to say that, because most aren't, sorry.

00:18:11.600 He would run home to be with Erica.

00:18:13.140 Yes.

00:18:13.520 If he couldn't.

00:18:14.040 Yes.

00:18:14.320 If Erica was on the road, he'd be like, are we done here?

00:18:17.060 Okay.

00:18:17.560 Like a donor dinner or something.

00:18:19.040 He would, you know, after our events at night, he would do kind of like a little circuit

00:18:23.440 to all the dinners, and he couldn't wait.

00:18:24.660 He's like, okay.

00:18:25.360 And I'd be like, I got to talk to you about one other thing, Charlie.

00:18:27.840 Hold on one second.

00:18:28.540 One second.

00:18:28.860 He's like, sorry, I'll talk to you about it in the morning.

00:18:30.520 I got to see Erica.

00:18:31.160 Bye.

00:18:32.340 And it was just.

00:18:32.980 That is the key.

00:18:33.720 I love to tell people this, because sometimes people who didn't watch Charlie a lot would sometimes

00:18:39.080 just think, oh, he's like a young influencer.

00:18:41.100 So people would ask me, they'd be like, Blake, do you ever hang out with

00:18:44.300 Charlie?

00:18:44.800 And what I'd always say is, I don't think Charlie has ever hung out in his entire life.

00:18:49.880 He was always on his mission, or, you know, he was with, you know, he was with his family.

00:18:54.280 It was 100% all the time.

00:18:55.900 That being said, some of the best memories that I have are the plane flights across country.

00:19:02.000 Yeah.

00:19:02.320 Because.

00:19:02.900 And that's the only time he can hang out.

00:19:04.540 It was amazing.

00:19:05.280 He's trapped in a tube.

00:19:05.980 You're trapped.

00:19:06.320 And by the way, when, and I think that gave him the freedom to kind of just go, oh, I'm

00:19:11.700 hanging out.

00:19:13.100 And I mean, if you had to add them up, I've got hundreds of these hours, and they're some

00:19:18.320 of the most amazing, because he was so funny, and so, so curious, and so, so he did.

00:19:26.540 But it was like, you had to get him in this, this mode where you literally trapped him on

00:19:29.900 a plane, and he couldn't get out, and he was stuck there.

00:19:31.720 But what is that?

00:19:32.340 I mean, most people sort of fritter away their entire lives hanging out.

00:19:36.360 And I'm, I'm definitely one of them.

00:19:38.100 I'm like an Arab man in the souk.

00:19:39.620 I like to sit around.

00:19:40.680 I mean.

00:19:41.080 Hitting the water pipe, playing backgammon, drinking little cups of coffee, talking about

00:19:44.600 women, like, I've spent a lot of my life doing that.

00:19:47.140 That's why I love Trump so much.

00:19:48.260 He likes that too.

00:19:48.960 But Charlie had, like, this mission.

00:19:52.340 So my theory on that, Tucker, is I think in order for this whole God plan to work in Charlie's

00:19:58.480 life, he had to, like, he had to impress in him almost subconsciously, hardwire it, whatever

00:20:05.480 it was, he was going to maximize the juice, the output, and Charlie disciplined his body.

00:20:12.740 He didn't put alcohol into his body.

00:20:14.600 He didn't put drugs into his body.

00:20:16.460 He didn't put anything into his body that he thought was going to slow him down or reduce

00:20:21.300 his productivity.

00:20:21.980 He was obsessed with biohacking.

00:20:24.100 He was, like, and I thought it was just this weird quirk because I'm thinking, Charlie,

00:20:28.860 you're going to be alive because you're younger than me.

00:20:30.780 You're going to be alive when I'm gone.

00:20:33.020 Like, chill out, relax, have some fun.

00:20:35.540 But somehow he knew there wasn't a moment to waste.

00:20:39.900 And I'm finding these things, Tucker, that he found time to do.

00:20:43.080 Like, Erica's telling me he somehow found time to journal obsessively.

00:20:49.320 And she never looked at the journals.

00:20:50.560 Wrote her a weekly note every single week?

00:20:51.380 Wrote her a weekly note on Saturday, every Saturday.

00:20:54.740 He read books.

00:20:55.920 He skimmed books.

00:20:56.900 He got Blake to read them.

00:20:57.900 He found ways to get the team to distill information so he could absorb it.

00:21:01.560 And he, but he would do walks with books on tape.

00:21:04.860 He managed to squeeze so much life into such a short period of time.

00:21:11.820 And it's, I have to believe it was God impressing and blessing him with this divine ability to

00:21:19.960 maximize his output.

00:21:21.880 I love that.

00:21:24.540 And I had many conversations with him on this topic also about, like, physical health.

00:21:30.260 I'm a pizza guy, so, okay, yeah, physical health.

00:21:32.900 I quit smoking cigarettes at 45.

00:21:34.740 Like, I feel very virtuous.

00:21:35.840 It turns out you say he didn't want to put anything in his body that would hinder him.

00:21:38.660 And it turns out the list of things that hinder you is all foods except, like, cabbage, grilled chicken, hot sauce.

00:21:44.580 But that's basically what, I mean, he was the fittest guy, but it was for a reason.

00:21:49.620 How much time do we have in this segment left?

00:21:51.940 We're going to welcome back radio in three minutes and 20 seconds.

00:21:55.040 Then we have a nice 13 minutes.

00:21:56.660 Okay, so I want to, when we get to the 13, I want to tell the Blake story.

00:22:00.480 Blake Neff, who's sitting right here.

00:22:02.000 It's a great story.

00:22:02.700 And it's just a story that just explains who he really was.

00:22:07.960 And there's so much that goes on in Washington and political world that's so treacherous and cruel

00:22:13.120 and anti-human, and Charlie just stood against all of that, not simply in public, but in private.

00:22:20.000 And I had a window into one of the amazing stories of bravery and forgiveness.

00:22:25.580 It's just an incredible story, and it's about you.

00:22:28.980 Again, it makes me emotional to think about it.

00:22:30.040 But anyway, I don't think it's ever really been told.

00:22:32.140 Sorry to make you emotional.

00:22:33.620 It's an amazing story.

00:22:34.600 You know what I love about this Blake story, too?

00:22:37.120 Because I don't want to, I'm not going to ruin the punchline here,

00:22:41.260 but I would just say, one of the strongest testaments to Charlie is the fact that this guy's a tough judge.

00:22:51.740 And I know when he...

00:22:53.120 Oh, I know.

00:22:53.660 He works for me.

00:22:54.720 And when he first started working with us, I could tell that he was a little unsure.

00:22:58.880 You know, you probably had the questions you racked.

00:23:00.500 Charlie spoke the language of the people, and you're a Dartmouth kid that's a total egghead, nerd,

00:23:05.320 you know, like, beautiful mind kind of person.

00:23:09.640 But Charlie would cut through all that, and he would speak right to the people and cut people's hearts in two

00:23:14.220 and make them choose the side they were going to go on.

00:23:17.340 And that was not the language of Blake Neff, but we needed a Blake Neff, and I knew we needed a Blake Neff.

00:23:23.020 And I just, there was this moment where, I forget why, but you took this moment,

00:23:30.180 and I remember being really touched by it, and you paid Charlie a tremendous compliment,

00:23:34.620 and I knew, it was like two years after the fact, and it was, I, Charlie texted me, like, directly.

00:23:41.120 He goes, whoa, did you hear, did you hear Blake?

00:23:43.720 Like, because it really meant the world to him that he had won, he had won your respect,

00:23:47.960 and it really meant the world to him.

00:23:49.540 Yeah, South Dakota Germans aren't big on compliments.

00:23:51.880 But I do think that, so you, if you get one from Blake, it's earned.

00:23:54.780 I do think the question that people had about Charlie, the question I got most often,

00:23:59.660 and people came to me a lot about Charlie, like, what is this?

00:24:02.720 Because they knew that I knew him and that I was friends with him.

00:24:04.900 But really, the core question everyone wanted, answered was, is this guy for real?

00:24:09.020 Is this real?

00:24:10.100 Because, like, nothing in our world's real.

00:24:11.640 It's all fake, actually, and I hate to say it, but it's true.

00:24:14.060 A lot of preachers are very fake.

00:24:16.420 And I would always say, amazingly, it's 100% real.

00:24:20.020 It's totally real.

00:24:21.080 And I remember talking to you about that.

00:24:23.580 I mean, everyone, like, what is this exactly?

00:24:26.340 And you concluded early, I remember, when you told me, no, no, it's totally real.

00:24:30.860 That's incredible.

00:24:32.180 You really have to have lived in our world for a while to know how wild that is,

00:24:37.240 because most people are just like, yeah, of course it's real.

00:24:39.720 Not in political world.

00:24:41.180 Is that fair?

00:24:42.080 Very fair, very fair.

00:24:43.720 And he's like the realest guy to ever live practically.

00:24:47.180 I know, I know, I know.

00:24:50.500 Oh, it makes me sad.

00:24:51.340 I wish I had said this in public before he left, because I said it many times in private.

00:24:58.020 I will say that to many people.

00:25:00.140 Who is this guy?

00:25:01.220 Is this real?

00:25:01.740 Like, what is this?

00:25:02.460 And I would always say, man, if you had dinner with him, you would know.

00:25:05.360 It's real.

00:25:06.160 This is really the Tucker day.

00:25:08.620 And I feel awkward even taking us in and out of breaks.

00:25:11.960 But Tucker.

00:25:12.740 I don't want to do it.

00:25:13.620 I'm doing this out of service to my nation and to my friend Tucker.

00:25:18.240 So, yeah, the floor is yours.

00:25:19.860 I know where you're going.

00:25:20.920 Oh, this is a Blake Neff story.

00:25:22.120 Okay, so this is a story that, obviously, I was in the middle of it.

00:25:25.160 And I've talked to a lot of people just this week about it.

00:25:27.580 I don't think it's ever been told in public.

00:25:29.040 I'm going to give the outline and then just turn it over to Blake to correct me and to fill in the details.

00:25:33.520 But here's the story.

00:25:34.700 So, Blake worked for me at Fox News for years, probably more closely than anybody, like, intimately at Fox.

00:25:42.660 And I love Blake.

00:25:44.260 And Blake is obviously an unusual person, but just a wonderful person and a really deeply decent person.

00:25:50.800 I mean, it's true.

00:25:51.560 And obviously, yeah, Blake's weird.

00:25:53.540 But, like, Blake is the best.

00:25:55.360 And people who love Blake really love Blake.

00:25:57.260 And there's a little group of people who, you know, we all know each other.

00:25:59.480 We all talk about Blake.

00:26:00.100 Like, so Blake got caught up, right, at the height of all this insanity, true insanity called cancel culture.

00:26:06.880 But it was more than that.

00:26:07.580 It was, like, French Revolution stuff.

00:26:09.760 And someone, like, you know, Blake is naughty.

00:26:12.640 Blake is a racist.

00:26:13.580 Well, actually, as I would always say, Blake is actually not a racist.

00:26:16.340 And I would admit it.

00:26:17.180 He's not.

00:26:17.920 He's a Christian who believes that God created everybody.

00:26:20.040 So he's actually not a racist.

00:26:21.040 But Fox overreacted, of course.

00:26:24.720 And he left.

00:26:26.000 And then Fox denounced him.

00:26:27.160 They tried to get me to denounce him.

00:26:28.600 Suzanne Scott tried to make me denounce Blake.

00:26:31.220 And I refused.

00:26:33.980 Something I'm proud of.

00:26:35.080 But whatever.

00:26:35.520 It was just awful.

00:26:36.540 It was the saddest moment in the 15 years that I spent there.

00:26:39.240 And then Blake's unemployed.

00:26:40.820 An unemployable.

00:26:42.420 And I get this.

00:26:43.520 And I feel terrible.

00:26:44.580 And I feel like I've got a moral obligation to help Blake.

00:26:47.000 But who's going to hire Blake?

00:26:48.080 Because he's, like, in the New York Times.

00:26:49.660 He's, like, a bad person when actually he's a great person.

00:26:52.780 Charlie Kirk calls me.

00:26:53.700 He's, like, I'm thinking about hiring Blake.

00:26:55.080 I was, like, God bless you, Charlie.

00:26:56.480 What's he like?

00:26:57.060 I said, well, Blake's very eccentric.

00:26:59.240 Like, no kidding.

00:27:00.100 He's the only person who ever lost weight eating junk food.

00:27:02.300 Like, he's a really unusual person.

00:27:03.820 Like, we talk about Blake all day long.

00:27:05.660 But he's a wonderful person.

00:27:07.680 And he's incredibly talented.

00:27:09.140 No one disputes that.

00:27:09.900 And I think you should do it.

00:27:11.520 He does.

00:27:12.620 Charlie and I talk about it.

00:27:13.360 Then Blake and I talk about it.

00:27:14.340 We're having these, like, conversations behind the scenes about each other.

00:27:16.280 And not only does Charlie hire Blake, he puts us, which makes me emotional, he puts Blake

00:27:22.600 on the air as if to say, I know this man.

00:27:26.040 He is a good man.

00:27:27.180 You will judge me for doing this.

00:27:28.440 I'm doing it anyway because it's the right thing to do.

00:27:30.260 And then, of course, it becomes this whole thing where Blake is, like, a true asset to

00:27:32.640 him.

00:27:33.100 But when he first did it, it was like, no.

00:27:35.620 I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do.

00:27:38.020 This is the last thing I'll say before turning over to Blake.

00:27:40.040 I've been in this business my whole life.

00:27:41.340 Nobody does that.

00:27:42.720 Nobody does that.

00:27:43.900 Everyone's like, oh, I'm for free speech or whatever, until it hurts me.

00:27:47.260 At which point, like, sorry, pal.

00:27:49.240 Good luck.

00:27:50.420 But Charlie pivoted against that in a way that exposed him and his group turning point to

00:27:56.320 ridicule and risk.

00:27:57.160 And he did it anyway.

00:27:58.580 And all week I've been talking to people about this.

00:28:00.620 Like, that was the acid test.

00:28:01.980 Those of us in this business know how brave that was.

00:28:04.220 It was the bravest thing.

00:28:05.460 Anyway.

00:28:06.420 Sorry, Blake.

00:28:07.160 I remember talking to you about that because I actually was weighing another employment option.

00:28:12.700 And I was going, you know, as you said, I was like, I joined.

00:28:15.160 I think you maybe were behind that one, too.

00:28:17.380 Yeah, I was.

00:28:18.220 I was desperate.

00:28:18.960 It was another option.

00:28:19.920 And I remember just, I won't say what it was for, but we were talking about it.

00:28:23.800 And I think the one that you really pointed out that was really important, he's like,

00:28:29.120 Blake, I think the most important thing, like, Charlie is a for real, a sincere Christian.

00:28:34.640 Yes.

00:28:34.780 And I think you're going to want to work for someone who is a for real, sincere, deeply

00:28:39.940 believing Christian.

00:28:41.560 And, you know, because then you'll disagree on a lot of things, but you will align on

00:28:45.760 really important things.

00:28:47.080 Yes.

00:28:47.300 And I think that was what carried the day with me.

00:28:51.580 And I'm very glad it did.

00:28:56.040 And, you know, at the time, as you said, it was like, at the time I came in, it was,

00:28:59.720 he was just a very different person.

00:29:01.780 Yes.

00:29:02.060 And it was over time realizing all the ways that, as you say, it's like, you have to

00:29:07.660 really see it.

00:29:08.180 You're like, is this for real?

00:29:09.340 You and I talked about this.

00:29:10.780 What is this?

00:29:11.100 Is this going to work?

00:29:11.980 It would also have that where you're like, this can't, this can't possibly work.

00:29:16.060 Right.

00:29:16.460 And it does.

00:29:17.500 And it does because he's so completely intently sincere and fully all in on it.

00:29:25.560 And I think that's what like amazed young people, like, you know, when you'd go to

00:29:28.580 these campus events and, you know, I think there's a lot of, you know, you'll see these

00:29:34.120 people online who are like very like performatively trad or Christian or whatever.

00:29:38.260 Cause it like owns the libs or whatever.

00:29:40.320 But Charlie is just like, no, no, I like 100% believe in this because I believe it is

00:29:46.300 true and because it is important and I want everyone else to believe in it because it is

00:29:49.840 true.

00:29:50.200 And I think it is the most important decision they will ever make.

00:29:52.580 And it would always shine through in what he was doing and how he behaved that he really

00:29:58.760 believed that.

00:30:00.540 And well, and I mean, I think, and you know this because you were at some of the campus

00:30:05.260 tops.

00:30:05.660 I was at some of the campus tops.

00:30:06.740 90% of the interactions as he got older, right?

00:30:10.820 The, the, the, the brand of Charlie was almost cemented, you know, in 2018 where he was much

00:30:17.420 younger and he was like a peer to the kids on college and he would say, Charlie Kirk destroys

00:30:21.560 the libs or whatever.

00:30:23.400 And that was just titling.

00:30:24.960 It wasn't actually in Charlie's heart, but the Charlie, by the way, didn't determine the

00:30:29.060 titles, you know, like people behind the scenes, no behind the scenes.

00:30:32.820 That's, you know, that's a social media team.

00:30:35.380 That's doing the titling.

00:30:36.560 That wasn't Charlie picking the title, you know, anyways, but the point is, as he got

00:30:40.440 older, he transitioned to a much more big brother and, and people started observing like this

00:30:48.840 incredible Herculean patience that he would exhibit on these, in these interactions with

00:30:54.360 sometimes bad faith people, but sometimes people that just had bad ideas.

00:30:58.300 And 90%, if you went and sat there and watched the entire three hour, prove me wrong, 90% of

00:31:05.100 it is him being kind and gentle and thought provoking and working through whatever was the lie that

00:31:12.220 was stuck in this kid's head or sometimes professors, but he would work with them through

00:31:17.980 it and use the Socratic method to draw out the truth.

00:31:20.360 And it was a beautiful thing.

00:31:22.520 And, you know, he doesn't get a nearly enough credit for that because the Charlie destroys

00:31:26.780 the libs clip goes mega viral, right?

00:31:29.380 I couldn't agree with you more.

00:31:31.860 I have to say when you, when all that happened to you, I just cannot say how pain I, well,

00:31:38.820 you know, cause we've talked about it many times, but that was like one of those painful

00:31:40.760 things that's ever happened to me in my life.

00:31:42.160 Uh, because you know, we have such a tight staff and, um, and the same staff, like I

00:31:47.240 don't, don't have new people working for me really ever.

00:31:49.600 And I don't, I don't care to.

00:31:51.000 So, um, that was really, really painful.

00:31:53.380 Oh, go ahead.

00:31:54.380 And I just wanted you to have health insurance.

00:31:57.760 My expectations for you were so low because you had been so mistreated and maligned and

00:32:03.820 slandered.

00:32:04.800 And it's just so hard to come back from that.

00:32:06.860 The fact that he puts you on the air is so.

00:32:10.320 Possibly a mistake.

00:32:10.920 What?

00:32:11.180 It was not a mistake, but it was, that is so wild.

00:32:15.240 So I, I have an insight into that piece of the story because I was aware of this other

00:32:19.800 job opportunity and I see it now all is like God's plan.

00:32:24.360 And I was working on kind of a panel show idea, but I didn't have the, it was just like a nugget

00:32:29.220 of an idea.

00:32:29.700 It was back in my head.

00:32:31.520 And, and I remember kind of just intuiting that in order to like restore this man that

00:32:38.180 had been so wronged by Oliver Darcy or whatever and CNN, these scumbags, I thought, you know,

00:32:46.260 I need to forgive Oliver Darcy.

00:32:47.800 Thank you for reminding me.

00:32:48.800 As we forgive those who trespass against us, he needs to be daily rotation.

00:32:52.760 So, but you know, and by the way, I, I saw, I ended up in that moment in that, when we

00:32:58.560 were talking with Blake at the beginning, I looked back at your monologue from that night.

00:33:02.540 Maybe it wasn't your monologue.

00:33:03.560 Maybe it was the finish final segment, but you said, I, you, you really were defiant and

00:33:07.680 it was beautifully done because you were back at, you, you, they, you were part of something

00:33:11.900 and only had so much control at that moment.

00:33:14.240 Right.

00:33:14.640 And so they were bullying me.

00:33:16.100 Suzanne Scott got me.

00:33:16.920 I was in the parking lot of a place in, I was in Bozeman, Montana fishing, and she called

00:33:21.520 me and I went outside to do my pre-show bathroom break, always outside if I can do it.

00:33:26.420 And she called me and she said, you need to say what he said was wrong.

00:33:30.080 And I said, I'm not doing that period.

00:33:31.680 And you can fire me in the show's live in 10 minutes.

00:33:33.760 I'm not doing that.

00:33:34.580 And, and she goes, well, I guess I can't make you.

00:33:38.120 And she, until the day she fired me, she never really talked to me after that.

00:33:43.140 I'm not trying to get into any of that, but I do believe that.

00:33:47.320 Oh, I want to get into it.

00:33:48.500 It was horrible what they did to him.

00:33:50.080 I'm just saying, I will, I don't know where to go with that.

00:33:52.920 I will say, Tucker, this is awkward for me.

00:33:55.640 Sorry, sorry, sorry.

00:33:56.260 No, no, no, no.

00:33:56.780 Sorry, sorry, sorry.

00:33:57.440 No, I will just say that I think this moment has profoundly changed all of us, including people

00:34:02.520 like Suzanne, and I just want to say briefly for what it's worth, she's been exceedingly

00:34:08.340 wonderful and kind.

00:34:09.620 No, I shouldn't say that.

00:34:10.120 And we all change, and I've done crappy things, a lot of crappy things in my life, so I shouldn't

00:34:14.000 be judgy.

00:34:14.940 But to your point, your hands were tied in that moment.

00:34:17.620 And you defiantly said, I remember you said, I just want everybody to know that you are

00:34:21.600 gloating over a young man's life being ruined, and shame on you.

00:34:26.160 You basically, you, I'll never forget that.

00:34:28.380 And I remember thinking, okay, like, if Tucker's got his back in this moment, this guy's pretty

00:34:32.960 great.

00:34:33.600 He's the best.

00:34:34.580 Yeah, and he's been the best, and I love having Blake on our team.

00:34:36.920 They came out of nowhere, man.

00:34:38.100 I'll never forget that.

00:34:39.120 I'll never forget that, as long as I live.

00:34:41.180 But anyway, the point is, whatever, and I shouldn't even have brought up the Fox.

00:34:43.360 Well, we put him on air.

00:34:44.660 Exactly!

00:34:45.320 And by the way, and now, look at this.

00:34:47.700 This show is going on.

00:34:48.820 Erica Kirk has demanded that this show goes on, and we're going to figure out the details, and

00:34:53.240 Blake is going to be critical to that.

00:34:55.120 And if we hadn't have created this roster, this thought crime crew that we do on Thursdays,

00:35:00.340 I don't know what we would do.

00:35:01.760 But it takes the bravery of an individual to get there.

00:35:04.820 So, like, everything is fine now, and Blake can do whatever he wants, and people know

00:35:08.100 who he is because they get to see him, and they can make their own judgments about him.

00:35:11.540 But when Charlie made that decision, and he's the one who would have been blamed if it had

00:35:15.360 gone wrong, people didn't know who Blake was apart from what they read in the New York

00:35:19.280 Times.

00:35:19.900 Slander devised by CNN and Oliver Darcy.

00:35:22.640 That's a fact, and not helped by a lot of other people who I shouldn't be attacking

00:35:26.620 your rights.

00:35:27.100 Sorry about that.

00:35:27.720 But he's the one who allowed Blake's life to continue.

00:35:33.960 And I just, I felt it so strongly, because I've been, that's my world.

00:35:37.780 Like, I know what that is.

00:35:39.020 All those people are like, well, you know, you can't put him on air.

00:35:41.480 Like, he did bad things.

00:35:42.640 I heard that.

00:35:43.420 And Charlie was like, he was willing to stand up to him and say, no, that's not true.

00:35:48.200 Like, most people are not going to do that.

00:35:50.000 No one will do that.

00:35:52.160 And I remember the nasty articles.

00:35:54.700 There was a few.

00:35:55.900 And Charlie would just write back, LOL.

00:35:59.400 So that's courage.

00:36:00.420 In case you're wondering what courage is, that's actual courage.

00:36:03.640 And you know that it is because it's so rare.

00:36:06.360 Nobody does that.

00:36:07.360 If people do that, who are they?

00:36:09.540 I live in this world.

00:36:10.840 Like, I know every single person hosting every single show, and they don't do that.

00:36:13.860 And he did that.

00:36:15.480 And so that's what actual courage is.

00:36:17.240 Courage is standing up for what is true in the service of other people, in the service

00:36:21.820 of showing love to other human beings.

00:36:23.880 That's the commission that we get from Jesus.

00:36:26.520 Period.

00:36:27.260 And he actually did that at great risk to himself.

00:36:31.340 And anyway, just, I've had like 50 text exchanges about this, so we didn't come up.

00:36:36.000 Anyway, bless you, Blake, for being at the center of that.

00:36:39.320 Thanks for standing with us.

00:36:40.560 Thank you.

00:36:41.000 Thank you very much.

00:36:41.720 Genuinely.

00:36:42.360 Can I say something that you told me the night of that blew my mind?

00:36:47.460 Go for it.

00:36:48.080 Go for it.

00:36:48.780 We're bringing Blake to the brink here.

00:36:50.360 We shouldn't do this.

00:36:51.120 We were in Provo the night of.

00:36:56.660 And it was like, we were all shell-shocked.

00:36:59.440 And Blake was there with them when it happened.

00:37:02.200 And we filter in late at night into this little, like, corner of the restaurant, the hotel in Salt Lake City.

00:37:12.960 And I don't know how it came up, but Blake says the most, I will never forget it.

00:37:20.240 He said, Charlie gave me my life back.

00:37:24.020 Yep.

00:37:24.460 And I knew exactly what he meant.

00:37:29.160 And now I think the audience does, too.

00:37:31.540 Amen.

00:37:32.320 Our dear friend's seat remains open with the golden EIB microphone in front of it, his hero, Rush.

00:37:38.260 It's pretty amazing.

00:37:39.440 And so, Tucker, this is the Tucker show for Charlie.

00:37:46.040 And so, I think it's important that I get to ask you a question.

00:37:49.760 Okay.

00:37:51.020 When did you meet Charlie?

00:37:52.520 And tell us about how your relationship with Charlie grew, because I think it's fascinating.

00:37:55.580 So, I met Charlie when he was a teenager.

00:37:57.800 He was connected to, funded by a close friend of ours called Foster Freeze, who's a wonderful man from Wilmington, Delaware.

00:38:07.380 Well, really from Wisconsin, but lived in Wilmington and then Jackson, Wyoming.

00:38:10.220 And was an investor in a company that we had, and more important, like an actual friend.

00:38:16.320 Really the only investor I've ever had in anything.

00:38:18.740 And a very enthusiastic Christian man.

00:38:23.440 And the kind of person who was just a collector of people.

00:38:25.900 You know, I met this person who was so enthusiastic.

00:38:28.000 And almost everybody around him was just wonderful.

00:38:30.880 But because he was so rich and so generous, he did collect.

00:38:34.540 There were phonies in the orbit, because there always are when someone's rich, right?

00:38:38.380 And so, he tells me at dinner about this kid he's met.

00:38:42.100 He's only 18.

00:38:43.320 He's not going to college.

00:38:44.220 I've always been opposed to college, my whole life.

00:38:47.080 I tried to convince all my kids not to go.

00:38:48.700 I mean, I really meant it.

00:38:49.620 And so, he's like, you would love this guy.

00:38:50.640 He's not going to college.

00:38:52.040 And I was like, man, I love that, because I really am opposed.

00:38:55.020 And I mean it.

00:38:56.020 And I'm like, he sounds great.

00:38:57.840 And he's like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

00:38:59.100 And I'm thinking, oh, man.

00:39:00.760 Some fast-talking kid has configured.

00:39:03.380 It was like throwing back Reagan quotes or something at poor Foster.

00:39:06.960 You know, he was in his 70s and like late 60s.

00:39:09.060 And he doesn't know.

00:39:10.840 And I really thought, assumed that Charlie was just some predator.

00:39:14.920 And I didn't like it at all.

00:39:17.380 And of course, there's the bias against young people.

00:39:19.540 I mean, Charlie's literally the age of one of my children.

00:39:21.940 So, like, and I felt he's probably just totally conventional telling old people what they want to hear,

00:39:27.920 sucking up to the donors, whatever.

00:39:30.020 So, I meet him.

00:39:31.240 I thought he was smart as hell.

00:39:32.520 But I was very skeptical.

00:39:33.980 Then I have this, he calls me, would you do an event?

00:39:39.700 Sure.

00:39:40.180 I was going to be in the state anyway, so I do it.

00:39:42.820 And we have this kind of sort of debate.

00:39:44.740 Not really a debate.

00:39:46.460 Well, what actually happened was I was going to give a speech.

00:39:49.160 And I got there.

00:39:49.960 We were backstage.

00:39:50.520 He's like, well, actually, let's just do a Q&A.

00:39:53.080 And I was like, I don't know, son.

00:39:54.360 I don't think you want to do that with me because I'm kind of a jerk.

00:39:59.160 You know, which I am.

00:40:00.440 In those settings, right?

00:40:01.720 So, he's like, no, no, no, I want to.

00:40:03.820 We can.

00:40:04.340 It's okay to have a debate.

00:40:05.600 I was like, I don't know, man.

00:40:06.860 Like, I disagree with your views on economics and foreign policy.

00:40:09.740 And I'm pretty hot on these topics.

00:40:11.620 So, I'm just letting you know that.

00:40:12.740 Oh, no problem at all.

00:40:14.280 So, we end up having this kind of intense thing.

00:40:18.340 And I'm, like, passionately opposed to marijuana and drugs.

00:40:22.400 I'm just having used a lot of drugs as a child.

00:40:24.540 Like, I'm very opposed to drugs.

00:40:26.040 Charlie never used any drugs in his whole life.

00:40:27.640 And he was, at the time, he was kind of libertarian on the subject.

00:40:29.980 And I remember saying, everyone in the crowd is for weed.

00:40:33.180 Like, you think you're so cool.

00:40:34.260 But actually, it's a control device designed to make you passive and accepting of the system that's destroying you.

00:40:40.640 And people kind of booed me or whatever.

00:40:44.280 But Charlie looked at me like, hmm, I think that may be right.

00:40:48.020 And that, it was that issue.

00:40:49.600 It was weed of all issues.

00:40:51.040 You know, it's not my top issue.

00:40:52.140 But I do feel it really strongly.

00:40:54.280 I hate marijuana.

00:40:55.820 Okay?

00:40:56.300 And I know it's really cool.

00:40:57.420 But, no, it's, like, fully corporate, actually.

00:40:59.820 And it's wrecking Americans, especially boys.

00:41:03.100 It's wrecking the parking lot of the grocery store nearby.

00:41:05.680 It makes me feel like getting my gun.

00:41:06.880 Like, I really feel that way about it.

00:41:08.280 Sorry, I shouldn't say that.

00:41:08.960 But I really am mad about it.

00:41:10.900 And Charlie grooved with that.

00:41:12.920 And that moment set off this, like, conversation.

00:41:15.960 So I was back.

00:41:16.540 I was in Arizona for something.

00:41:17.600 He's like, let's go to lunch.

00:41:19.320 Let's go to dinner.

00:41:19.980 And we started having all these really intense conversations.

00:41:21.780 I started putting him on Fox.

00:41:23.020 And his views were changing.

00:41:24.440 And mine were, too, by the way.

00:41:25.400 It's not like I converted him.

00:41:26.520 It's like I had been all kinds of embarrassing things during the scope of my long life.

00:41:31.820 A libertarian, a self-described neocon.

00:41:34.020 Can you imagine?

00:41:35.580 I mean, I'll admit it.

00:41:36.880 I, like, got mad at Alex Jones for asking questions about 9-11.

00:41:40.100 What?

00:41:40.900 Like, I was, like, a horrible person or a very closed-minded person.

00:41:44.940 I was totally wrong about everything.

00:41:47.560 And so I didn't judge.

00:41:49.920 Like, you should change your mind as the evidence changes.

00:41:52.360 The things you thought were going to work didn't.

00:41:54.360 An honest man asks himself why they didn't work and what might work.

00:41:57.340 Like, that's the process of adulthood.

00:41:58.760 And Charlie, young people are very inflexible about what they believe.

00:42:02.720 I have found, and I have a lot of young people.

00:42:05.280 I have a lot of children.

00:42:06.960 He was one of the only young people I've ever met who was like, oh, yeah, I think I was wrong.

00:42:11.100 And only belief in Jesus allows you to say that because you know that you're not judged.

00:42:18.280 You know that honesty is the ticket and that if you pursue an honest path, you'll be okay.

00:42:24.660 And you don't need the adulation from the crowd.

00:42:26.880 You don't need the love of strangers to feel good about yourself because you know that you are loved.

00:42:30.380 It gives you true freedom.

00:42:32.020 And he had that.

00:42:33.460 Charlie had no problem at all getting up and being like, I was a neocon.

00:42:37.260 And, of course, with me, he didn't because he knew that I was too.

00:42:40.100 I'm, like, cheering on the Iraq War, which I did.

00:42:43.180 Like, I literally did that.

00:42:45.080 And I'm ashamed of it, but I'm also proud to admit it because I think that it's important to let people know that you can admit being wrong.

00:42:53.140 It's okay.

00:42:53.920 It's all right.

00:42:54.540 We're people.

00:42:55.180 We're not gods.

00:42:55.900 You can be wrong.

00:42:56.700 I want you to know, Tucker, that that must have gone deep because Blake can attest of all the fringe issues that he knew he was on the unpopular side.

00:43:05.220 He was very, very vehemently against weed.

00:43:10.340 No way!

00:43:11.280 Oh, he went hard on it.

00:43:13.540 Yes.

00:43:14.080 I just, I think you really got at it where, you know, one, he was totally unafraid of being in a huge minority on an issue and being frank about it.

00:43:21.580 You know, people would ask and he'd be like, they'd ask him about, like, abortion and he'd be like, look, you know, my position on that is a tiny minority in the United States and I'm going to keep trying anyway.

00:43:30.800 And he'd say that on, you know, gay marriage where the polls would say, you know, a big majority support it and all of that.

00:43:35.720 And at the same time, yeah, the zero, like, shame about if he had to change his views.

00:43:42.440 You see that so often with politicians.

00:43:43.920 Well, actually, that was a different situation.

00:43:46.560 You know, I voted that way because, you know, it wasn't like that.

00:43:50.700 And he'll just be like, oh, no, I was wrong.

00:43:52.180 I, you know, I hadn't thought about this.

00:43:53.860 But you can't be controlled if you will.

00:43:55.700 So this is how the media control politicians.

00:43:57.580 They find some clip of the politician saying something different 10 years ago.

00:44:01.060 It's like, well, it was a different country 10 years ago.

00:44:02.820 He would do that.

00:44:03.780 We would see these clips, you know, these really like they'd be like, look, here's Charlie defending, you know, this issue.

00:44:10.360 And I would be like, ah, Charlie, they dug up that old clip.

00:44:13.200 And he goes, oh, yeah, I was that was that was back when I was a cuck.

00:44:15.840 And, you know, there's no shame in that.

00:44:20.360 And Charlie's example of admitting the truth about himself in public is the most edifying and important thing you can ever do because it shows people you can take the leash off and you can live in freedom because, you know, you're loved.

00:44:34.380 You can tell the truth.

00:44:35.700 We're all going to die anyway.

00:44:37.260 Is that this is the deepest truth.

00:44:39.380 And your job is to be honest and to be loving to other people.

00:44:43.380 OK, that's your job.

00:44:44.380 Only belief in God allows that.

00:44:47.120 And once you do it, it's like it's not only fine, it's great.

00:44:50.860 It's actual liberation.

00:44:54.500 You said that, I remember, at the first AmFest when you came back.

00:44:58.660 So you had the debate and then you came back.

00:45:01.620 The unplanned debate.

00:45:02.820 Oh, I remember feeling so honored that you came back.

00:45:05.980 It was our first AmFest and we really needed, like, somebody of your caliber and your, I'm going to say it, your fame, the weight that you held in the movement, especially, I mean, it was an honor to us to have you there.

00:45:22.020 Oh, I was so excited.

00:45:23.280 You came out the first night and you just said, let me say a few words about Charlie.

00:45:27.120 He's willing to change his mind.

00:45:28.960 He's willing to adapt.

00:45:30.500 And I knew that was your subtle nod to people who might have judged you.

00:45:35.300 Maybe you weren't even thinking that, but it felt like it was at least saying, like, listen, I know some of you think Charlie's a certain way.

00:45:39.980 Let me tell you, from that 2017 or whatever, 18 debate to now, I think it was 2021, like, a couple years had gone by since we'd had you back.

00:45:49.620 And then we, you know, you've been back ever since.

00:45:52.280 But it was, it's so important.

00:45:55.180 I just can't say it enough to be honest about yourself.

00:45:58.780 It's very easy to be honest about everybody else.

00:46:00.720 Oh, you're fat.

00:46:01.480 I don't like your dress.

00:46:02.360 Like, that's super easy.

00:46:03.980 It's very hard to be honest about yourself.

00:46:07.060 Like, I'm fat.

00:46:08.140 I'm wearing an ugly dress.

00:46:08.940 Like, no one wants to admit that.

00:46:10.260 But once you do, the fetters are off and you are so free.

00:46:16.620 And Charlie just lived that.

00:46:18.520 I feel like that's almost one of the most important things is to admit the truth about yourself and then no one can control you.

00:46:25.400 What can you say about me that I won't readily concede about myself?

00:46:30.260 Like, nothing.

00:46:31.040 And then what are you going to do to me?

00:46:32.620 You know, nothing.

00:46:33.860 Oh, it's amazing.

00:46:35.740 I read that poem a week ago about Charlie, and I always think about that other one.

00:46:40.580 You know, it's a much more famous one, If, by Rudyard Kipling.

00:46:43.600 Yes.

00:46:43.760 And it really does just perfectly describe Charlie.

00:46:49.820 You know, if you can, you know, speak with kings but not lose the common touch.

00:46:53.620 Exactly.

00:46:53.920 If you, and the one that ends the poem, which you don't hear quoted as much, if you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds distance run or something like that.

00:47:03.080 I might be getting that wrong.

00:47:04.020 Like, but he, he really did encapsulate all, like everything of, of that poem about what it is to, to be a true man, to be a true adult, to be a heroic figure.

00:47:19.720 I don't know.

00:47:20.340 Yeah, you want me to read it?

00:47:21.140 Yeah, go for it.

00:47:21.860 Yeah.

00:47:22.200 Okay.

00:47:22.500 If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourselves when all men doubt you, yourself, but make allowances for their doubting too.

00:47:37.900 If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, or being lied about, don't deal in lies, or being hated, don't give way to hating, and yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise.

00:47:51.820 If you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think and not make thoughts your aim, if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same.

00:48:06.100 Exactly.

00:48:07.100 If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken, twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, or watch the things you gave your life to broken, and to stoop and build them up with worn out tools.

00:48:20.460 If you can make one heap of all your winnings, and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss, and lose and start again at your beginnings, and never breathe a word about your loss.

00:48:33.560 If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve your turn long after you are gone, and so hold on when there is nothing in you, except the will which says to them, hold on.

00:48:47.200 If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, or walk with kings, nor lose the common touch, if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, if all men count with you, but none too much.

00:49:03.360 If you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run, yours is the earth and everything that's in it, and which is more, you'll be a man, my son.

00:49:16.020 It's incredible.

00:49:18.160 And the line that jumps out to me, which is the truest, and everyone, I think, understands it at some point.

00:49:23.800 If you can treat triumph and disaster, those two imposters the same, they are imposters, actually.

00:49:29.300 Because, you know, I'm not trying to leach the meaning from the human experience.

00:49:33.400 It is meaningful, but it's not the real point, actually.

00:49:38.240 And there is a sense in which this is...

00:49:40.400 It just stands out to me how many of those things we just referenced in the past hour, you know, being lied about, don't deal in lies.

00:49:46.640 That's the one thing that I kept thinking about.

00:49:48.520 If you can wait and not be tired, or being lied about, don't deal in lies, or being hated, don't give way to hating.

00:49:55.480 And, you know, how many times...

00:49:57.520 But winning is the real trap.

00:49:58.820 Winning is the trap.

00:49:59.960 That's where men destroy themselves.

00:50:01.480 That's what that was...

00:50:02.100 He and I talked about that recently, all the time.

00:50:04.620 Well, yeah.

00:50:05.640 Winning is when you decide that you're God.

00:50:09.040 That's the David moment for most men.

00:50:12.180 Surviving triumph is the real trick, and so few can do it, and he could, I think.

00:50:20.060 It's a beautiful...

00:50:20.680 Thank you for bringing that.

00:50:21.480 Actually, Blake has brought two poems to us this week that...

00:50:26.080 I am the egghead.

00:50:28.320 I mean that one from World War I.

00:50:31.280 What was the name of that poem?

00:50:32.180 For the Fallen.

00:50:33.200 For the Fallen.

00:50:33.840 Blake can read poetry in a very heterosexual way, which is...

00:50:37.460 Are you saying that I just did it in a non...

00:50:38.940 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:50:40.060 That was so straight, it was unbelievable.

00:50:42.620 I'm just saying, you don't meet a lot of guys who are like, I want to share some poetry

00:50:45.620 with you.

00:50:46.500 I've never been accused of an unblemished record of heterosexuality.

00:50:50.680 And, you know, it's funny.

00:50:52.140 I'm stealing that line from Charlie Kirk.

00:50:54.580 He would always say, I have an unblemished record of heterosexuality.

00:50:57.900 I'm Andrew Colvitt, the executive producer of this show.

00:51:00.580 I'm joined by Blake Neff, another producer on the show.

00:51:03.060 And, of course, the wonderful, the great, the legendary.

00:51:07.020 And, Tucker, you don't get enough credit for something.

00:51:09.480 I should have finished it.

00:51:10.740 The Tucker Carlson.

00:51:11.700 But you don't get enough credit for something.

00:51:13.220 I just want people to understand that, Tucker, I mean, I've seen you backstage, I don't know,

00:51:17.900 more times than I can count now.

00:51:19.100 And you are the exact same with the guy who's taking out the trash as our PAs and our assistants

00:51:28.020 and the people in between as you are with Charlie or me or Blake.

00:51:32.760 You are the exact same human.

00:51:34.460 And I really want everybody to know that about you because you wouldn't say it about yourself.

00:51:38.020 You treat everybody.

00:51:39.880 I can't tell you how many times that has occurred to me because I'll be needing to drag you somewhere

00:51:45.980 where we need you to go, but you're deep into a conversation in the corner with, you know,

00:51:50.980 the assistant that, like, I don't even know that I necessarily do the name of the assistant

00:51:55.880 because we have so many employees around here.

00:51:57.160 And you would just be, like, engrossed in this deep conversation.

00:52:01.280 And I would feel bad, you know, oh, I got to grab Tucker.

00:52:03.780 He's got to go on stage in, like, five minutes or something.

00:52:05.780 And I love that about you, man.

00:52:07.360 And I just want the world to know that.

00:52:09.220 Well, thank you.

00:52:09.820 No, I mean, I love people and, you know, God created everyone.

00:52:13.260 But it's also true that I grew up in rich people world back when it was an egalitarian world.

00:52:18.780 It's one of the main changes in my country in my lifetime is that rich people are not egalitarian anymore.

00:52:23.280 But I grew up, you know, in an affluent family around rich people.

00:52:26.460 And, you know, the housekeeper comes to Thanksgiving dinner, period.

00:52:29.460 Period.

00:52:30.220 And that's a wasp thing.

00:52:31.360 I'm just going to say it out loud.

00:52:32.300 That's a wasp thing.

00:52:33.140 And that's gone.

00:52:34.740 But we felt that very, very strongly.

00:52:37.420 And I just think that's right.

00:52:40.220 You know what?

00:52:40.560 It's not gone because we still believe it.

00:52:42.820 And you still believe it.

00:52:43.520 I really believe it.

00:52:45.260 I really believe it.

00:52:45.940 I'll just say one thing.

00:52:47.200 Everyone hates the wasps.

00:52:48.220 And I beat up on them constantly.

00:52:49.880 But in the club that I spent my life at, I don't even know if they're clubs anymore.

00:52:52.900 But the only thing you could do to get booted from the club was to be rude to the staff, period.

00:52:57.560 You could be drunk.

00:52:58.360 They're always drunk, of course.

00:52:59.860 You could be, you know, whatever.

00:53:01.320 You could say anything.

00:53:02.400 But if you were rude to a waiter, you were gone.

00:53:04.320 I mean, they wouldn't even have a hearing about it.

00:53:06.440 Because so deep was the culture on that question.

00:53:10.140 It's that you, we are all, underneath it all, the same.

00:53:14.240 We were all created by God.

00:53:15.300 We have different aptitudes or languages.

00:53:16.580 We're very different in a lot of ways.

00:53:17.700 But fundamentally, we're all going to stand alone before God.

00:53:20.600 And that was the idea that spawned the Democratic Republic that we grew up in anyway.

00:53:26.780 That's the core idea of America that is never articulated anymore.

00:53:31.540 We didn't have fast track at Disney World when I was growing up.

00:53:34.800 And I still feel that way.

00:53:36.160 And I'm married to a chick who really feels that way.

00:53:38.640 I mean, really feels.

00:53:39.700 You get married in my family.

00:53:41.280 And the guy who cuts her grass is coming to your wedding, whether you like it or not.

00:53:44.360 Like, that's the rule in my house.

00:53:46.860 I love that you're saying.

00:53:47.440 I'm not saying that to make myself sound virtuous.

00:53:49.720 It's just like, that is something that we have lost.

00:53:52.180 And we have to fight to regain that.

00:53:53.980 And all these little fake aristocrats flying around in their planes.

00:53:57.120 It's one of the reasons I really am upset with them is because they've forgotten that specific thing.

00:54:02.900 Charlie wanted better elites.

00:54:04.980 Oh, yes.

00:54:06.180 Yes.

00:54:07.260 And, yeah, I mean, you model it.

00:54:10.100 And it's not gone because we're talking about it right now.

00:54:12.140 And maybe we can bring it back.

00:54:13.300 But in the spirit of actually doing a show, we have a –

00:54:18.460 Sorry.

00:54:19.680 Sorry.

00:54:20.260 It's like one of my obsessions.

00:54:21.620 I have this great clip that I can't wait to share with everybody.

00:54:24.340 But we're going to bring in Frank Turek, who cross-talk.

00:54:29.100 He was with Charlie on the day.

00:54:30.840 Charlie, he would go to Frank with ideas of apologetics and how to argue for the faith and contend for the faith in the public square.

00:54:40.080 So, Frank, welcome to The Charlie Kirk Show with Tucker Carlson, the great Tucker Carlson, with us.

00:54:45.940 Hey, I just want to piggyback on something Tucker just said.

00:54:49.300 The only worldview that agrees with what Tucker just said is Christianity.

00:54:54.680 You know, in Hinduism, there's a caste system.

00:54:58.300 In Islam, if you're not a Muslim, you're a second-class citizen.

00:55:01.200 In the secular world, there's no way to ground these moral values and the moral worth that every individual has.

00:55:10.080 The only worldview that does that is Christianity, and that was the worldview that Charlie and everybody here at this table right now wants to demonstrate is true and try and persuade young people to follow.

00:55:26.420 I love that you said that.

00:55:29.880 I think that that is indisputably true.

00:55:32.800 I think it's provable.

00:55:33.960 I mean, you know, the founding documents still exist.

00:55:36.800 We know what the people who wrote them were thinking, and they were informed by a culture that is a product of Christian civilization, period.

00:55:44.100 Western civilization is Christian civilization.

00:55:46.780 And I'm not against other religions, by the way.

00:55:49.800 I don't follow them, but I'm not mad at them.

00:55:51.420 I'm just going to want to say that.

00:55:52.640 I'm not.

00:55:53.100 I know a lot of great people who are of different faiths.

00:55:55.740 But Christianity is unique in that it's true, and it's unique in that it believes that every person is at least potentially chosen by God.

00:56:05.060 Every person.

00:56:06.300 And the whole New Testament is that story, by the way.

00:56:09.080 And so Christians feel that deeply.

00:56:11.820 The cultures that they create reflect it, and I grieve its passing, and I pray for its return to our country.

00:56:18.800 Well, ironically, Tucker, Charlie's martyrdom might be the turning point to bring it back.

00:56:28.140 I don't know—well, you do know, because you're seeing what's going on at TPUSA right now.

00:56:34.080 Yes.

00:56:34.360 How many people want to start TPUSA chapters?

00:56:38.240 What are we up to now, Andrew?

00:56:39.980 Is it 62,000, something like that?

00:56:41.920 Yeah.

00:56:42.300 I mean, it's growing by the minute, so it's probably—let's just say approximately 65,000.

00:56:47.780 Whoa.

00:56:49.040 We had 2,000 before that.

00:56:52.200 I mean, I'm seeing people online on some YouTube videos that have to do with Charlie, some of my own YouTube videos.

00:57:00.600 They're all over the world.

00:57:01.960 There's people in Denmark going, you know, I was an atheist, and because of Charlie Kirk, I'm a Christian now.

00:57:06.160 Australia, same thing.

00:57:09.140 London, same thing.

00:57:11.260 This isn't just in America.

00:57:13.300 This is happening all over the world.

00:57:15.520 And so I want to commend every one of you for advancing the cause that Charlie so—was so near and dear to Charlie's heart in a time of mourning.

00:57:30.080 It's got to be so difficult, Andrew and Blake especially, to continue on, but Charlie would want it, and that's why we're all here right now.

00:57:39.440 Well, and Frank, I, you know, bless you.

00:57:42.160 I know you've had to deal with the conspiracy theories and the, you know, why'd you touch your hat at this time?

00:57:48.380 Because, you know, that wretched video.

00:57:52.020 I mean, but bless you, brother.

00:57:54.320 I just want to be—I just want to be a character reference for you.

00:57:59.700 And Charlie loved you so much.

00:58:02.480 You were always there for Charlie.

00:58:04.680 And I know how much he leaned on you for apologetics and for thinking through these deep issues, you know, around when he was on Bill Maher recently.

00:58:12.740 And, you know, you've meant so much to him and your work at Cross-Examined.

00:58:17.760 Like, you are a dear brother and a dear friend.

00:58:19.860 And some of that garbage, like, I don't even paid any heed, but I know you have—you were there the day that it happened.

00:58:26.840 And I know this has been terrible for you, too, and you've had to deal with all this garbage.

00:58:31.360 But, you know, God bless you, and I'm sorry that that has been something in your experience.

00:58:37.360 Thanks, brother.

00:58:38.160 I mean, that's—that actually hasn't bothered me all that much, to tell you the truth.

00:58:43.520 I just think it's so colossally stupid that if somebody wanted to shoot somebody, they'd need a guy standing 25 feet from them to signal,

00:58:50.960 Hey, get him!

00:58:51.920 He's the guy!

00:58:52.540 I mean, he's—it makes absolutely no sense at all.

00:58:56.840 So, it was just a terrible day, but we all did the best we could to try and help and save Charlie.

00:59:06.020 And then, once we couldn't, all we could do was take Erica's lead and your lead, Andrew, and Mikey's lead,

00:59:13.700 because you were all there, to march forward and take his legacy to new levels.

00:59:20.880 And, Lord willing, that's what's going to happen.

00:59:22.580 Well, Frank, you're going to be a key part of that.

00:59:25.820 And, you know, I joke with Erica.

00:59:28.560 I'm like, Erica, he left us all the keys.

00:59:31.540 He had all the people that we needed, all the reference points, all the true allies, not the snakes, not the grifters, the true people.

00:59:41.880 And you are a true man, and you have great character, and you have great heart, and you've been a great friend to Charlie and to us.

00:59:48.620 So, you know, I just wish I could say it a thousand times over.

00:59:53.840 Thank you.

00:59:54.440 But let's just do whatever we can to advance this legacy now.

01:00:00.320 And that, you mentioned it, Erica, and me and Tucker were just talking, we want to talk about Erica a little bit here.

01:00:05.700 And so, we have to go to a radio break, but we're going to keep going for the stream.

01:00:11.980 And so, hang right there with us.

01:00:14.880 The great Tucker Carlson, Charlie's dear, dear friend, is with us, and we're so honored.

01:00:20.000 You know, there have been reference, I know that a lot of stuff going on online I've checked out, actually.

01:00:23.380 I just want to say that because it's too upsetting to me.

01:00:25.400 I know it's extremely upsetting for you guys since you're way more in the middle of it than I am.

01:00:30.840 But obviously, you need a fair, impartial, well-explained investigation that assures everyone the rule of law lives in the United States.

01:00:39.520 I think it's essential, and I hope that we get it.

01:00:41.480 I think we're going to have to push for it.

01:00:42.940 We should push for it.

01:00:44.180 But as to what happened, again, totally fair in my view to ask sincere questions.

01:00:48.460 But I think it's important to remember the big picture, which is whatever happened, it was a species of the same phenomenon, which was the fight of evil against good.

01:00:58.900 And his murder was an attempt to extinguish the light, period.

01:01:02.340 And it didn't work.

01:01:04.820 Like, that's the main thing to know.

01:01:06.120 There are lots of things I want to know.

01:01:07.600 And again, we have a civil system that has to go through a process in order for this government to continue, or any government.

01:01:13.000 It has to be transparent and motivated by good faith, and it has to try to affect justice.

01:01:17.960 That's a key, and I don't think we should blow past it.

01:01:20.420 However, again, big picture, this is light versus dark, and you feel the darkness all around us.

01:01:27.700 It comes in many different forms and many different guises.

01:01:31.540 These are disguises, okay?

01:01:33.720 But what it really is is the age-old, you know, it's the Lord of the earth.

01:01:39.020 It's Satan.

01:01:39.820 Sorry to say that.

01:01:40.880 It is.

01:01:41.320 Deliver us from the evil one, I think is the actual translation in the Lord's Prayer.

01:01:45.540 And the evil one is all around us, but Charlie's murder is a reminder that we are surrounded by God and God's protection and God's love, and that is so obvious.

01:01:56.420 The light has not only not been extinguished, it's glowing brighter.

01:02:01.040 I hate, like, dumb metaphors like that, except this one is totally real.

01:02:05.960 And so we should, or I speak for myself, I'm going to focus on that.

01:02:10.020 I'm going to focus on the big picture.

01:02:11.900 While demanding precise accounting, that is legitimate, but I'm not going to get so caught up in that stuff that I miss the true message, which is forces of darkness tried to extinguish the light, and not only did they fail, their effort was counterproductive.

01:02:29.620 That is the truth.

01:02:33.540 Frank, I was just, sorry, I got, I was in sort of wrapped by what you were saying.

01:02:40.140 Sorry, I felt that, I felt it coming up, but I couldn't keep it down.

01:02:43.740 It was beautiful.

01:02:44.320 I was looking for somebody else to respond here quickly.

01:02:46.900 Let me mention something related to that.

01:02:49.240 You know, our mutual friend, James Lindsay, had a text exchange with Charlie.

01:02:54.640 In fact, he sent it to me the other night because I was speaking at a university here in North Carolina on one Wednesday night about Charlie, and I related this story.

01:03:05.040 And let me just, let me just read you what James sent to Charlie and what Charlie sent back.

01:03:11.100 Very astute response by Charlie.

01:03:13.560 James said, this is August 24th, 2023.

01:03:17.140 Communism is by far the best evidence in support of Satan's existence.

01:03:21.480 Charlie writes back, 100%.

01:03:23.120 And then the next text, he writes back, if there is a Satan, then there is a God.

01:03:28.960 And James writes back, that would follow.

01:03:31.320 Well, so evil actually shows that God does exist, not that he doesn't, because there'd be no such thing as evil unless there was good, and there'd be no such thing as good unless God existed.

01:03:42.700 Because in any objective sense, the only way you can define good is God's nature.

01:03:47.720 Otherwise, everything's a matter of opinion.

01:03:49.900 You couldn't say murder was really objectively wrong unless there's a standard of objectively right that we're all obligated to obey.

01:03:56.320 And what we mean by that is God's nature, and as Tucker pointed out earlier, our founders understood that.

01:04:01.700 We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men were created and endowed by their government.

01:04:06.660 No, it doesn't say that.

01:04:07.980 Endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.

01:04:10.880 So, if evil exists, and we all know it does, we saw it eight days ago, then God exists.

01:04:18.880 Well, and that is, honestly, the way that a lot of us were convinced of the reality of God was by being forced to acknowledge the reality of evil.

01:04:28.860 I can say that for myself, my wife, who's like the person who keeps our family text chain grounded in the truth, sent a verse this morning that basically said that exact thing, and there are a number of them throughout both Old and New Testaments, as you know better than I, but that say that God will use evil for his purposes, and that he will reveal himself through sadness as well as joy.

01:04:50.460 And that is practically true.

01:04:53.400 It's not even a theoretical concept.

01:04:54.960 It's a living concept for those of us who concluded, just on the basis of the evidence, that these were not political differences, actually.

01:05:01.060 These were not political phenomenon.

01:05:02.480 These were a bunch of different things.

01:05:04.140 I won't get specific, but you know what I'm talking about.

01:05:05.880 This is the face of evil, and that brought us to the reality of God.

01:05:10.320 It's like wild.

01:05:11.120 That actually happened.

01:05:12.000 It happened to me.

01:05:13.080 I want everybody to know, and I know, Blake, you've been contemplating this, too.

01:05:17.260 But Charlie was willing to give the very last measure of his effort and his life.

01:05:25.980 He really was, and he said it multiple times, and I think the first time he said it on stage, it wasn't something that was planned.

01:05:35.080 It came out of him naturally, and Erica heard it, and Erica was like, be careful when you say that.

01:05:42.880 Please, you know, and that's really powerful.

01:05:49.520 But he said it again and again.

01:05:52.340 He said it on a Lance Wallnau show, I remember one time, saying like, you know, I mean, and he was very aware of the story of Stephen.

01:06:00.780 He was very well aware of the prophets, and he was very well aware that people that wanted to hurt him.

01:06:08.320 And it never stopped him, and I think we need to remember that.

01:06:15.120 When we think about evil and we think about, because death, where is your victory?

01:06:20.560 Oh, death, where is your sting?

01:06:22.680 It's the last thing that, you know, it's like you said, they tried, they meant it for evil, but the Lord is taking it, and he's turning it to good and for the saving of many lives.

01:06:33.420 And I always was caught by that wording in the scriptures, the saving of many lives.

01:06:38.040 Obviously, he's talking about the Israelites in that instance, but as we contemplate it for our own moment, the saving of many lives.

01:06:46.600 And I think about all these baptisms and all these reports of the churches being overflowing across the country.

01:06:51.760 We didn't riot, Tucker.

01:06:53.520 We didn't burn businesses.

01:06:55.100 We didn't tear down windows and doors.

01:06:58.720 Of course not.

01:06:58.800 We prayed, and that is the biggest, most amazing testament to the character of Charlie Kirk.

01:07:05.060 But it's also the nature of, or it has been my experience anyway, I'm not a theologian, but I just will say that I've had many moments, especially in the last 10 years, where, boy, you can feel it around you, like for real.

01:07:17.660 You can feel the menace, you can feel the hate, you can feel the threat.

01:07:20.320 It comes out of nowhere.

01:07:21.880 I've had a couple pretty intense experiences with it, very intense.

01:07:25.000 And they are followed invariably by the peace of God, by the Holy Spirit.

01:07:29.460 And you know that God is using this moment for your benefit, your edification, and your joy.

01:07:35.440 That is true, that out of tragedy, and it's such a cliche, and it's such a kind of syrupy, hallmark, false assurance on the surface that I hesitate even to say it, but I've just lived it so much.

01:07:46.740 I've lived it so much, that is absolutely how God has communicated with me in my life, like directly, is by contrasting his presence with the evil that you feel around you.

01:07:57.620 And so it is, in a weird way, in the middle of tragedy, like a true blessing.

01:08:02.300 And if you see a loved one, you know, we all go through this as we age.

01:08:05.500 I've been through it a lot recently, where someone you really, really love dies.

01:08:08.260 And then you're just filled with this sense of the presence of God that's absolutely real.

01:08:13.400 It's not, you're not manufacturing it.

01:08:14.780 It's not like an immune response or something.

01:08:17.780 It's like a presence from outside coming into you.

01:08:21.120 And I think the whole country feels it, or the people who are alive to it feel it now, strongly.

01:08:27.260 In fact, the greatest evil of all time, the sacrifice of Jesus, has led to the greatest good.

01:08:34.200 Yes.

01:08:34.500 Without the sacrifice of Jesus, we'd all be dead in our sins.

01:08:38.940 But Christ was sacrificed so that our punishment could be put on him.

01:08:45.760 And when we trust in him, we're not only forgiven, but we're given his righteousness.

01:08:50.420 You know, there's a misunderstanding among some.

01:08:52.780 They think, in order to get to heaven, I got to be good.

01:08:54.900 No, no, no, no.

01:08:56.000 There's nobody good enough.

01:08:57.060 Jesus said there's nobody good but one, and that was him.

01:09:00.100 But in order to get to heaven, you need to take his sacrifice and apply it to yourself.

01:09:07.360 You need to take the punishment that went on him, and you trust in him to get that forgiveness because your punishment was put on him.

01:09:16.960 And then by trusting in him, you're not only forgiven, you're given his righteousness.

01:09:21.160 So good works are a result of Christianity.

01:09:23.340 They're not the cause of Christianity.

01:09:25.920 The cause of Christianity in someone's life is to trust in what Christ has done.

01:09:31.000 And out of love for what Christ has done, then you'll do good works.

01:09:34.580 By the way, I'm really struck by a quote from Peter Kreft, who said this about what evil can do in our lives to help us become more like Christ.

01:09:45.320 He said this.

01:09:46.000 He said, the point of our lives is not comfort, security, or even happiness, but training.

01:09:51.640 Not fulfillment, but preparation.

01:09:54.140 This world is a lousy home, but it's a fine gymnasium.

01:09:57.660 Well, Frank, I just want to say again, I know you've got to catch a flight here.

01:10:06.320 So God bless you, my friend.

01:10:08.280 Thank you for joining us.

01:10:09.440 Thank you for being such a rock in Charlie's life.

01:10:12.820 I'll say it.

01:10:13.560 You don't have to give them any heat.

01:10:15.000 I'm sorry about the conspiracy theories specifically around you and some of my other friends that were around the table.

01:10:21.760 They are utter garbage, and we stand by you 100%, my friend.

01:10:26.040 And just thank you for being just an amazing guy, and you meant so much to Charlie, and we'll see you in a few days.

01:10:33.120 Thank you, brother.

01:10:34.460 Thank you, Tucker.

01:10:35.160 Thank you, Blake.

01:10:35.620 Thanks, Frank.

01:10:36.140 God bless you guys.

01:10:37.160 So Charlie was very well aware of the existence of evil, obviously.

01:10:42.000 So were us on his team.

01:10:43.520 You know, there's a, by the way, just one other conspiracy theory I just want to snuff out here.

01:10:47.780 One of our dear friends that literally from the very beginning started with us and loved Charlie like a brother, he grabbed the SD cards out of the camera afterwards.

01:11:02.220 And there's all these conspiracy videos about, like, why did he grab the SD cards?

01:11:06.120 Well, first of all, they're in the possession of the FBI, okay?

01:11:10.020 It's not like he took them and, like, ran off with them.

01:11:12.160 Second of all, I asked him personally.

01:11:13.880 I said, why did you do that?

01:11:15.860 And he looked at me, and this was his answer.

01:11:17.620 He said, because I know people can be evil.

01:11:21.180 And he did not want that footage being grabbed by somebody.

01:11:24.760 There was videos of people after the incident going and stealing hats off the table.

01:11:28.920 I mean, so I'm so grateful he did that, and that that was his instinct.

01:11:34.480 He's like, I'm depressed to know that that was why I did that, but I knew that I had to protect that footage because I wanted, I mean, you know, you're recording in, like, 4K, you know?

01:11:44.320 And so I'm so glad he did that.

01:11:46.700 But Charlie knew the existence of evil.

01:11:48.600 Well, can I say, I think that people can feel the existence of evil, and that just to put in a sympathetic word for people who are trying to make sense of this and coming to the wrong conclusions, I think they're motivated, for the most part, by pure intent.

01:12:01.400 I think they don't trust the authorities.

01:12:03.680 They have every reason to feel that way.

01:12:05.400 I know that for a fact.

01:12:06.460 Not the Trump administration.

01:12:07.740 In general, like, we're not, you know, there's been a lot of lying, and it's corroded the trust.

01:12:12.940 That's not their fault, actually.

01:12:14.600 They're the victims of it.

01:12:15.420 That's a good point.

01:12:15.600 Thank you for saying that.

01:12:17.660 There are, of course, bad actors who are doing it for cliques or whatever, but I guess.

01:12:21.820 But there are far more people who love Charlie.

01:12:25.680 They loved what he stood for.

01:12:27.360 They feel like he was murdered by evil.

01:12:29.860 They're absolutely right.

01:12:30.740 They're not sure what variety of evil.

01:12:32.520 There's no authoritative person to tell them.

01:12:35.000 So I guess I'm just not surprised at all.

01:12:36.720 This is a message I've told to a lot of people.

01:12:39.660 This is what happens when you lie too much and you hide too much.

01:12:43.420 And going forward, I just want everybody with power to be honest in the way that Charlie was honest about themselves.

01:12:50.880 That will do more than anything to fix this, to make people love each other and hear each other.

01:12:56.860 And if people are honest, we got here because of lying.

01:13:00.580 And the only antidote is truth.

01:13:04.360 And so truth about yourself, not about other people.

01:13:06.840 Stop talking about other people.

01:13:08.380 Admit who you are.

01:13:10.040 And once you do that, people can feel that.

01:13:12.760 And they immediately, as they did with Charlie, they respond to it.

01:13:15.780 They're like, I believe you because you're honest about you.

01:13:18.600 Anyway, I want that.

01:13:19.580 Yeah, a buddy of mine just said something that I think is really profound.

01:13:25.560 He said, two people, and I believe this is about you too, Tucker, which is why you're so important.

01:13:30.580 But two people could say the same thing.

01:13:34.100 Just imagine Charlie Kirk, 30 million followers across social media, and somebody else also very prominent.

01:13:40.560 Yes.

01:13:41.140 And they would say the same thing.

01:13:42.360 But when Charlie said it, it would echo and ripple across the world.

01:13:47.500 Yeah, because we're all animals, by the way.

01:13:50.320 And so much of what we know, we receive non-verbally.

01:13:53.380 We can smell each other.

01:13:54.660 We can feel the vibe.

01:13:55.840 I don't care if that sounds flaky.

01:13:56.920 It's true.

01:13:57.720 My dogs can do it, and so can you.

01:13:59.860 And if a deceptive man is speaking, I don't believe what he says, even if it's factually accurate.

01:14:03.940 And if an honest man is speaking, I know it.

01:14:06.460 I can feel it.

01:14:08.400 That's why everyone loves Blake, despite his eccentricities.

01:14:11.560 He is honest.

01:14:13.420 He's not a liar, and Charlie was the same.

01:14:15.700 And we just know that.

01:14:16.980 You can't dissuade me of that.

01:14:18.240 I know that's true.

01:14:19.460 Let's go ahead and play Cut 20.

01:14:20.760 This is Charlie talking about the existence of evil revealing God's presence.

01:14:26.440 As Christians, ethical monotheists, we have the problem of evil.

01:14:31.200 Atheists have evil no problem.

01:14:34.040 On the atheist side, they can't say that evil actually exists because without God, if God does not exist,

01:14:40.760 then we are nothing more than just a clump of cells, and there is no such thing as evil.

01:14:46.220 You only know something is evil if you have good to compare it to.

01:14:51.380 If I have a piece of paper and I draw a crooked line, how do you know this line is crooked?

01:14:56.740 You immediately look at it and say, that's a crooked, squiggly line.

01:14:59.460 Only because, in your mind, you know what a straight line is.

01:15:05.740 If you don't believe in God, then you say, evil's no problem.

01:15:08.620 But if you are upset with it, you actually are implying that you believe in God.

01:15:12.320 You might be angry at God.

01:15:14.180 You might be wrestling with God.

01:15:16.300 You might think that God is unjust.

01:15:17.980 That's a completely different thing than not believing in God.

01:15:21.740 There's no one who doesn't believe in God.

01:15:26.780 Everyone believes in God because the Spirit of God is within us because He made us.

01:15:30.440 The divine spark exists whether you acknowledge it or not.

01:15:33.040 So your options are three.

01:15:34.860 Either you acknowledge it and try to live by it, you ignore it and numb yourself, or you rage against it.

01:15:40.900 And so that would be the atheists, the agnostics, and the Christians in reverse order.

01:15:44.980 And you can see them immediately.

01:15:47.920 You know, the agnostics are numb, the atheists are enraged, and the Christians have peace.

01:15:52.280 But you don't have any other options because it's just real.

01:15:56.080 It pre-exists you, and every single person feels it.

01:16:00.620 Executive producer of the show, my good friend Blake Neff, another producer of the show,

01:16:05.000 and of course, the great, good friend, wonderful man.

01:16:10.000 Honestly, Tucker, thank you so much for making the time.

01:16:12.640 By the way, everything we've asked of you, you just said, whatever I can do.

01:16:16.620 Yes, I'll clear my schedule.

01:16:17.760 Yes, absolutely.

01:16:18.940 And that's just how you are, and I love that about you.

01:16:21.800 Well, I want to get on the road.

01:16:23.200 I mean, my favorite thing that Charlie did in his professional life was get out and physically speak to people in their physical presence.

01:16:29.080 I think that's so important.

01:16:30.320 I love the Internet, I guess.

01:16:31.720 Pretend to love the Internet.

01:16:32.720 I hate it.

01:16:33.540 But mostly I love being with people physically and smelling them.

01:16:37.100 And he was like the last person who really loved that, and he got murdered.

01:16:40.880 And I just, I grieve his death, of course.

01:16:44.460 But I also am really concerned that that whole thing will die.

01:16:48.340 It's so important to be there physically.

01:16:50.640 Like, ask me anything in my physical presence.

01:16:53.680 And so I'm doing that for you guys.

01:16:56.300 I'll do as much as you want because I just really believe in that.

01:16:59.760 Well, you, you, we were going to save that for Monday, but I, so they announced it.

01:17:05.940 Oh, I'm not much of a planner.

01:17:07.160 Well, I'm just saying, if you guys want me to go out there, I will do it.

01:17:11.840 Yeah, breaking news here.

01:17:13.140 Tucker Carlson will be a part of continuing Charlie's legacy by touring with us.

01:17:20.200 Wherever you want.

01:17:21.680 It'll be at least one stop.

01:17:23.900 We'll say it like that.

01:17:24.480 During grouse season.

01:17:25.640 And so that's like the ultimate expression of love.

01:17:27.980 Talk about laying down your life.

01:17:30.620 I love grouse season.

01:17:32.260 Take up your cross daily.

01:17:34.380 So I want to, I want to, I want to pivot this conversation to, uh, Charlie's wife.

01:17:39.360 Yes.

01:17:39.940 Erica Kirk.

01:17:40.960 Um, and I joked yesterday, or yeah, I got a thought crime.

01:17:43.940 I got a little, you guys, you guys razzed me about it, but I was quoting Blake and cause

01:17:48.080 it came out, it was just this like amazing thing.

01:17:50.140 And I, I, I should know better than to air private conversations publicly, but Blake, Erica

01:17:56.540 was referenced and Blake just goes, what a woman.

01:18:00.740 Dude, she's unbelievable.

01:18:02.360 She's amazing.

01:18:02.940 I was in Phoenix, flying to Phoenix or something else.

01:18:05.640 And Charlie texted me on the plane and said, I heard you coming to Phoenix cause he knew

01:18:08.180 everybody.

01:18:08.720 And I was like, how do you know that?

01:18:10.500 He goes, do you have time for lunch?

01:18:11.760 Yes.

01:18:12.920 I had nothing to do with him.

01:18:13.780 Was not here for turning point at all.

01:18:14.980 And so I meet him at lunch with his girlfriend, Erica, and he wants to introduce me to her.

01:18:20.260 And I called Susie, my wife after.

01:18:22.080 And I was like, cause my longstanding view has been, you know, it's critical.

01:18:26.000 Like I really believe in marriage, but not for like syrupy reasons.

01:18:28.880 Like I think it really matters.

01:18:29.920 And I was like, that chick is a star.

01:18:33.940 I mean, she was just like, no, this is what's true.

01:18:38.340 And that's not true.

01:18:39.840 I mean, she is tough.

01:18:41.680 It's not exactly the right word.

01:18:42.660 Cause it's from love.

01:18:44.240 It's from Christian faith.

01:18:45.440 It's from faith in Jesus, but it like, oh man, oh my gosh, unwavering.

01:18:52.720 And you want to know a crazy, you want to know a crazy thing I just realized last night.

01:18:57.740 So Andrew Breitbart dies in 2012.

01:19:03.260 March 1st.

01:19:04.280 That inspires Charlie Kirk to start turning point USA in 2012.

01:19:08.980 Guess what else happened in 2012?

01:19:12.460 And we talk about people getting prepared and these little like nuggets that you think about.

01:19:16.120 I just realized this.

01:19:17.860 Erica Kirk won Miss Arizona in 2012 and hung out with Donald Trump in 2012 because of that.

01:19:25.960 I know.

01:19:26.780 And so I don't know.

01:19:27.800 There are no coincidences.

01:19:29.140 But you can just see how God was preparing them.

01:19:33.380 And, you know, Erica as well, you know, Erica grew up with a single mom.

01:19:39.500 Yeah.

01:19:40.340 And so, you know, obviously you wanted Charlie's kids to know their father in a deep and profound

01:19:49.080 personal way.

01:19:50.140 But Erica is uniquely, even in the midst of that tragedy, is uniquely able to navigate that,

01:19:57.120 even just conceptually and emotionally, something I've talked to her about.

01:20:00.060 And it's powerful even hearing her as she's working these pieces out.

01:20:04.880 And again, I don't want to share too much privately.

01:20:06.600 So they said this publicly, and I just love it.

01:20:09.840 And I shared this on Twitter, X, the other day, and it went viral.

01:20:14.180 So let's go ahead and play cut 19, one of my favorite interactions between Charlie and Erica.

01:20:19.780 My wife joins us, Erica Kirk, the beautiful, legendary Erica.

01:20:23.940 I love you so much.

01:20:25.140 I love you.

01:20:25.760 You're my best friend.

01:20:26.620 Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

01:20:27.900 We have asked the audience for questions.

01:20:30.060 You pick one.

01:20:31.160 Who is more conservative and why?

01:20:32.800 Erica.

01:20:35.340 Yes.

01:20:36.140 By far.

01:20:37.200 Not even close.

01:20:38.120 I am a moderate compared to Erica.

01:20:41.420 Andrew always jokes that once you got married to me, you got more based.

01:20:44.800 That's true.

01:20:45.560 That is true.

01:20:46.780 No, Erica is very conservative.

01:20:49.020 Do you think having kids made you more conservative?

01:20:51.460 A hundred percent.

01:20:53.220 Which I didn't think was possible.

01:20:56.620 But a hundred percent.

01:20:58.160 Absolutely.

01:20:59.100 And a better wife.

01:21:02.840 Boy, that's the realest thing ever.

01:21:05.080 It's hard to talk about your marriage because no one believes you.

01:21:07.720 Of course, because it's like it's your wife.

01:21:09.620 You can't say anything bad.

01:21:10.420 But like, I just know for a fact that that's true.

01:21:13.220 It's really true.

01:21:14.260 Yeah.

01:21:14.460 And by the way, I should note, because I can't control myself, that there was a picture of them in Maine, which they loved.

01:21:22.420 That makes me sad.

01:21:24.080 Yeah.

01:21:24.600 Well, Charlie was a bad, he was bad at vacations.

01:21:27.200 Yeah.

01:21:27.380 Terrible at vacations.

01:21:28.260 So he was in Maine this summer on vacation.

01:21:31.860 And he was, I just loved how it kept like, oh, well, okay, Fox and Friends wants me to be a guest.

01:21:36.640 So we're going to take the weekend, like the best days of the vacation, you know, where he could actually maybe.

01:21:41.760 And Erica was just totally game for it.

01:21:43.740 She was like, cool, let's go to New York.

01:21:44.940 No, they came to my house.

01:21:46.340 And he's like, I want to buy a house here.

01:21:47.840 I was like, oh, got to.

01:21:50.480 The state needs you.

01:21:52.040 It's good.

01:21:52.720 And, you know, I'm sorry that they didn't, but.

01:21:56.420 It's just been amazing to hear her talk about, you know, not just their relationship, but like how, you know, how they both viewed marriage.

01:22:03.820 And, you know, we were saying the last, the last exchange I had with Charlie by text message on the way to the event, he was, Blake, what are the best arguments for monogamy?

01:22:15.740 And it gets back to that, you know, the Christian civilization stuff we talked about, because he loves all the takes I'd give him where I'm like, yeah, you know, Christian marriage is in the Bible, but it's also this like secret weapon that made the West great.

01:22:27.560 And like countries that follow Christian marriage, like they're amazing.

01:22:31.460 They excel, they improve, they get better.

01:22:33.980 They have harmony between men and women far more than any other civilization.

01:22:38.040 He loved all of that.

01:22:38.920 And so I was rattling all that off.

01:22:40.000 And I, I think the last thing I got from his, he like hearted a list that I posted and 10 minutes later he was on the stage.

01:22:47.500 Yeah.

01:22:48.060 And yeah, that was those, I, I've looked back at those cause there's, I was on that text chain and I was chiming in and they were the last texts that I exchanged with them too.

01:22:54.940 And it was like 30 minutes before it happened.

01:22:57.080 And yeah, we were talking about marriage.

01:23:00.540 That is when they talk about, you know, hearing Erica talk about it, where she'll say stuff that sounds unbelievable to you.

01:23:07.020 You know, she'll be, she's like, people would ask me, you know, did you get mad at Charlie?

01:23:11.220 Cause he traveled so much and was doing so many things.

01:23:13.500 And she's like, no, I didn't.

01:23:16.040 And it was because we were on the same team.

01:23:18.380 We were on the same mission and I would have never wanted to in any way be hindering from him executing God's mission.

01:23:26.320 And he would have never wanted to fail in any way in me executing the mission God gave me.

01:23:31.740 But she was, but when he was present, you know, he, he practiced Shabbat, not because he's Jewish, but because he needed sort of a discipline to follow.

01:23:41.840 And so from sundown on, uh, on Friday, really all of Saturday, it was like, he was off.

01:23:48.180 He turned us, you couldn't call him.

01:23:49.380 You couldn't get ahold of him.

01:23:50.540 I mean, there was ways if an emergency happened that I could get ahold of him, but.

01:23:54.520 And it was legit, but it was legit.

01:23:55.720 You'd see the wave of him, like reading the things you sent on like Friday night or Saturday morning and finally reacting to them.

01:24:01.360 Blowing you up on Sunday when I'm trying to go to church, all of a sudden Charlie's back on and it was just like, you know, and, um, but, but he, he gave that time so purely and fully to his wife and kids.

01:24:12.760 And Erica absorbed every moment of that.

01:24:16.140 And I, you know, I told this story yesterday and I do want to like clarify something because apparently people took it the wrong way.

01:24:23.260 But the night it happened, she got a call from a very important person and that very important person, I'm not going to say who, it maybe isn't who you think, but it's a very important person, but asked like, I, you know, I just have to ask like, like, what do you know?

01:24:42.820 And he wasn't talking about some conspiracy theory.

01:24:44.800 We didn't even, they hadn't even got that, the shooter at this point.

01:24:48.500 It's a fair question.

01:24:49.340 He was asking, what do you know about turning point?

01:24:52.380 What do you know about what Charlie was doing politically?

01:24:54.860 What do you know about the donors?

01:24:56.680 What do you know?

01:24:57.320 What do you know?

01:24:58.420 Like, what are we working?

01:24:59.140 What's our starting point here?

01:25:01.500 And she said back, I know everything.

01:25:05.580 Thank God.

01:25:06.240 Because Charlie would spend, they would walk and they would talk and they, they would, religiously, they would walk.

01:25:12.780 Because Charlie hurt his back, he couldn't run anymore.

01:25:14.400 He used to run like seven to 10 miles a day.

01:25:16.440 When I first started working with Charlie, he would just be gone running.

01:25:19.120 And he hurt his back, he couldn't do it.

01:25:20.320 So they would walk together.

01:25:21.220 And if you ever walked with Charlie, the guy could keep a pace.

01:25:24.460 The guy, big, long legs.

01:25:26.280 Yeah.

01:25:26.940 And, and they would talk and they would lay in bed and they would talk.

01:25:30.360 And he told, he, she was his vault and she knows everything.

01:25:35.420 She has the same spirit.

01:25:36.520 So when, when that was announced or I heard that she was taking over, I was just, oh, I was just elated.

01:25:43.700 It's not an attack on anyone else, by the way, or a reference to any of the internecine battles currently going on, which I'm trying to not think about.

01:25:51.800 But it's just the, the fact, the provable fact that she had the same spirit and the same goals, same mission that he had.

01:25:58.980 That is just true.

01:26:00.220 Just more based.

01:26:01.960 Oh, let me, I just want it without, you know, whatever, but getting into it.

01:26:07.120 But I just want to affirm that.

01:26:09.020 I just saw that recently, yet again.

01:26:11.820 And I'm just so thankful that she's taking over because it's, it's a big deal.

01:26:16.600 I saw Trump on Monday.

01:26:17.840 He said, I couldn't get elected without Charlie Kirk.

01:26:19.640 And I, you know, he's not prone to say things like that.

01:26:22.280 He meant it.

01:26:22.800 Wow.

01:26:23.280 Yeah.

01:26:23.440 J.D. said the same thing with Jesse.

01:26:27.680 And I know J.D. feels that.

01:26:30.440 And, you know, it's just been amazing, too, to see Washington, you know, the power center, the imperial capital, as Charlie always used to say.

01:26:38.160 By the way, Charlie hated going to Washington, hated it.

01:26:41.420 He loved being out here in Phoenix, thought it was like our secret weapon.

01:26:44.500 Well, besides you being the secret weapon, it was our secret weapon to be outside of that bubble.

01:26:48.720 And yet, somehow, all of Washington is coming to him.

01:26:53.980 You know, can I say one thing?

01:26:55.380 I shouldn't even get involved in this, but it's a fact, so I want to say it.

01:26:58.680 He loved J.D. Vance.

01:27:00.040 He loved Donald Trump, of course, often said it, but he really loved J.D. Vance.

01:27:03.620 The stuff he would talk about in private, and some of that would, you know, bubble out.

01:27:06.740 You know, he loves telling the story of the first time he endorsed him for office.

01:27:11.580 And in case people haven't heard it, it's such a great story where, you know, Vance has announced he's running in Ohio for Senate.

01:27:18.180 And it's a very long shot bid at this point.

01:27:20.500 I think he pulled at 2% or 3%.

01:27:22.220 He comes in, he meets Charlie, he talks to Tyler, too.

01:27:25.600 And they come out, and they're like, he said everything we believe.

01:27:28.340 Like, we've got to endorse him.

01:27:29.640 Like, if we're not going to endorse this guy, why are we even here?

01:27:31.740 Yeah, exactly.

01:27:32.340 And they're basically, you know, they make that commit, and there's a miscommunication because it's a big Senate race,

01:27:39.840 and Charlie's got to call a lot of donors and, you know, explain why we're doing this.

01:27:43.940 We're not going for your guy.

01:27:45.400 This isn't to slide on you.

01:27:46.780 And the other guy was their guy.

01:27:48.260 And instead, there's a miscommunication, and it just goes out, like, blast.

01:27:51.880 Turning Point is endorsing J.D. Vance.

01:27:54.080 And it goes out way too early.

01:27:56.520 And he is about, he's like, well, we all believe it.

01:28:00.180 And he's just like, J.D. Vance is amazing.

01:28:02.740 By the way, you're part of that story because it was, he saw J.D. on your show and was like,

01:28:08.780 he, at that point, he didn't know all the little deep things that he believed, and he just, he kept, like, I remember him saying, J.D.'s got, like, something.

01:28:22.220 And before you explain why, I'm not going to get involved in this.

01:28:27.180 No, no, no, no.

01:28:27.520 But I just say he loved J.D.

01:28:28.840 He loved J.D.

01:28:29.580 He loved J.D.

01:28:30.200 And by the way, J.D. loved him.

01:28:31.840 And I think you can see that.

01:28:33.740 Do you want to put any cap on that?

01:28:35.400 I know you have a story to tell.

01:28:36.500 Well, I just want to, I don't think I can emphasize it enough.

01:28:40.200 And again, I'm really going to try because I think the point of Charlie's life was following Jesus.

01:28:44.940 I just want to say that again as someone who knew him well.

01:28:47.560 I think the point of his life was following Jesus.

01:28:49.120 So I really want to help, be helpful to that mission and not get distracted with the other stuff.

01:28:55.360 And I have distracted with the other stuff for sure because I feel strongly about it.

01:28:59.440 But I'm going to try and stop.

01:29:00.420 But I just want to say, if you want to understand Charlie Kirk, he loved J.D. Vance and Donald Trump.

01:29:08.280 But he was genuinely close to J.D. like as a friend and vice versa.

01:29:12.540 And that is just factually true.

01:29:14.500 And I don't want to hurt anybody by going on, but that is true.

01:29:17.720 And J.D. earned every count of that.

01:29:19.140 Yes, he did.

01:29:20.420 He loved the story and it really meant a lot to him.

01:29:23.640 So we had that event in...

01:29:25.260 It was in June in Detroit last year.

01:29:27.040 In Detroit, the People's Convention, we called it.

01:29:28.800 And I assume that was like...

01:29:30.140 It was pre him getting announced as VP and they were just starting to kind of like float his name out there.

01:29:35.500 Yeah, which Charlie, of course, very much wanted to do.

01:29:37.960 And he used all of his political talents to try to promote that.

01:29:42.660 And one of those things is, yeah, I invite him to the convention.

01:29:45.540 And what he always loved about it was, I think it was his anniversary either the day before or the day after.

01:29:51.380 Yeah, no, no, it was the day before because, yeah, we wanted him on Saturday night to be sort of the final speaker on Saturday night.

01:30:01.900 And he said, I can't.

01:30:02.440 And Charlie would love that.

01:30:03.240 He's like, it's my anniversary.

01:30:04.300 He would say marriage comes first.

01:30:05.000 I have to be with my wife, but I will commit to getting there on Sunday.

01:30:10.480 And Charlie was like, great, you can be the final speaker of the event.

01:30:14.020 And that gave him just enough time to get to literally just drive up there, which I believe he did.

01:30:19.640 He personally himself drive the car and he he gets there.

01:30:23.140 And like, you know, we're used to a lot of people having, you know, entourages.

01:30:27.240 And he just shows up.

01:30:28.140 I think he had one aide with him.

01:30:29.760 It was JD.

01:30:30.340 Yeah.

01:30:30.640 Yeah.

01:30:30.860 I just walks in.

01:30:31.520 It's just like, hey, I'm JD Vance.

01:30:34.020 I'm a speaker.

01:30:34.580 I think like maybe some security guy didn't initially recognize him.

01:30:37.460 No, there's JD Vance walking by himself backstage.

01:30:40.620 I was like, I think that's where you need like, you know, he's just kind of like strolling in.

01:30:46.160 And like we found out he drove.

01:30:48.400 He's like, oh, yeah, I was just, you know, there's never been a less affected politician.

01:30:51.500 I always promise myself I'm not going to compliment JD Vance because I don't want to hurt him.

01:30:54.760 But there's never been a less affected leader ever.

01:30:58.180 Like, period.

01:30:58.860 I totally agree.

01:30:59.600 I've I've never seen one.

01:31:00.820 But yeah, Charlie, people would ask Charlie a lot.

01:31:05.540 And, you know, are you going to run for president?

01:31:08.120 Are you going to run for office or, you know, like and he would always you will not find one piece of content anywhere ever.

01:31:18.200 It doesn't exist where he said, yeah, you know what?

01:31:20.740 I want to be president someday.

01:31:21.900 He would always say he would always, you know, I love what I'm doing.

01:31:24.320 Like God's called me here.

01:31:26.000 You know, we have more impact here, you know, and and that was all very true.

01:31:31.280 So privately.

01:31:34.940 I had that conversation with them and I wouldn't say he answered it with me, although that maybe there were some other instances where I caught an inclination.

01:31:45.100 But what he said was, JD's ready.

01:31:49.940 And because JD's running, I don't even have to think about it.

01:31:53.440 And I don't know if that's like I don't know if he said let me say because JD exists, we're going to do everything we can.

01:31:59.660 He didn't say that he confirmed or anything.

01:32:01.640 But because JD exists, I don't have to think about it.

01:32:04.020 And Charlie, you know, was such a champion of JD's political talents and his his future.

01:32:10.020 And if JD does decide to do that, certainly Charlie would cheer him on from the hereafter.

01:32:15.000 But yeah, Charlie, Charlie has a lot of faith in JD Vance.

01:32:19.380 I always loved his his frankness on just topics like that, you know, in the in the 2024 primaries.

01:32:27.180 You like he just come out and he's like, well, I promised Trump that if he ran again in 24, I would support him.

01:32:32.560 So that was that.

01:32:33.160 Like I made a promise.

01:32:34.000 And if JD chooses to do that, then God bless him.

01:32:38.380 And I would be here to to cheer him on.

01:32:41.740 We have our final radio segment of the day.

01:32:44.300 Are you serious?

01:32:45.360 It goes fast.

01:32:45.860 That went fast.

01:32:46.580 Yeah.

01:32:47.140 But I have this great clip of Charlie that we're going to play.

01:32:49.340 Play cut to this is Charlie talking about his lovely wife, Erica.

01:32:53.200 Wife is the best person ever.

01:32:54.480 And she's a patriot and she's a believer.

01:32:56.420 And we don't want to have to be accountable to God when this life passes.

01:33:00.200 And he asks, why did you not trust in me and not fight evil?

01:33:04.520 Because we as Christians are called to fight evil.

01:33:06.220 It's one of the less lesser known scriptures.

01:33:08.540 Psalm 9710.

01:33:09.460 For those of you that love God, you must hate evil.

01:33:11.460 Yep.

01:33:11.720 Amen.

01:33:12.120 And again, everyone is called to something different in the body of Christ.

01:33:15.080 Some people are called to heal the sick.

01:33:17.900 Some people are called to mend broken marriages.

01:33:20.320 Some people are called to do outright hot gospel teaching.

01:33:23.940 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.

01:33:27.080 That's it.

01:33:27.500 Who has that clarity of purpose, you know, at that age?

01:33:35.020 It's such a rare gift.

01:33:36.620 I think it is a gift.

01:33:37.980 It's not detracting from the choices that he made.

01:33:40.300 But like he knew what his purpose on this earth was.

01:33:44.260 He worked tirelessly to fulfill that.

01:33:48.240 Tirelessly.

01:33:49.160 I can't overstate that.

01:33:50.400 As someone with a similar gig, like I've never seen a man work harder.

01:33:53.280 And with greater self-sacrifice, with greater self-discipline.

01:33:56.760 And it all flowed from his belief that this is not pointless.

01:34:00.960 We are, there's a race that we have to run.

01:34:03.540 And he, I mean, he left us in mid-stride.

01:34:06.420 I thought that that night and I was heartbroken and struggling even now to control myself.

01:34:13.840 Excuse me.

01:34:15.380 But I had that image that day.

01:34:20.100 I was on a plane when it happened of him going like that.

01:34:24.540 You know, leaving this earth in that position in mid-stride.

01:34:28.060 And that is, as tragic and overwhelming as it is, that is such a gift.

01:34:34.380 Like, may that be the end of my life, too, in all of our lives.

01:34:38.120 To leave in midst of purpose, in midst of forward motion.

01:34:43.460 You know, very few people get that.

01:34:44.980 And, you know, in this case at 31, it's unimaginable.

01:34:47.920 However, that is something that I know that I want.

01:34:50.920 And I think that every person who thinks about it wants that, too.

01:34:54.900 And so I'm grateful for that.

01:34:59.060 Well, you know, you have a special place in the Turning Point family, Tucker.

01:35:07.320 I know you know that.

01:35:08.600 You had a special place in Charlie's heart.

01:35:11.480 And I just want to address one thing before we go here.

01:35:14.500 We've got like two, two and a half minutes left.

01:35:17.400 That there was pressure put on Charlie, you know, about you appearing at Turning Point.

01:35:24.400 Oh, you think?

01:35:25.540 And he's such a Scott about it.

01:35:27.900 So he's just like, oh, you're putting pressure on me.

01:35:30.480 So I've got to double down.

01:35:32.460 He was like, you know, some of the funny text messages that we've found since then.

01:35:36.360 He goes, oh, they don't want me to have Tucker?

01:35:37.820 Oh, maybe I'll have him speak twice.

01:35:39.380 You know?

01:35:39.860 And he just loved you.

01:35:41.900 Oh, he sent those to me.

01:35:42.880 Yeah, he just loved you.

01:35:44.600 And there was, you know, and it was the hardest thing to explain to people that, you know, maybe didn't like your views on foreign policy or whatever.

01:35:51.680 I didn't like my views on foreign policy.

01:35:53.460 I'm trying to be diplomatic here, Tucker.

01:35:55.740 I thought I should be put in prison.

01:35:57.620 Embrace it.

01:35:59.280 Embrace it.

01:35:59.840 But I just, you know, Charlie, this was the hardest thing to explain is that, like, guys, you don't understand.

01:36:06.500 Like, Charlie's mission is three steps down.

01:36:09.200 He's keeping a coalition together.

01:36:11.220 He's keeping friends together.

01:36:12.500 He's keeping networks together.

01:36:13.600 He's a statesman, and he's not going to knee-jerk and be morally blackmailed by anybody.

01:36:21.140 And if you do it, he will double down.

01:36:24.500 And you saw it in that clip.

01:36:25.800 My mission is to confront evil.

01:36:27.680 Oh, yes.

01:36:28.420 And to proclaim the truth.

01:36:29.580 Wherever it is.

01:36:30.500 And I would just tell people, listen, you might think one thing, fine.

01:36:36.960 But Charlie and Tucker are deeply, deeply, on a very personal level, friends.

01:36:43.080 And Charlie is loyal.

01:36:44.600 Oh, yeah.

01:36:44.880 And if you go down this route, don't be surprised when you have Tucker having three speeches on three different nights at AmFest.

01:36:52.620 You know, like, when I was a kid, I drove my, in high school, I drove my car into a white pine in Maine, going about 40.

01:37:00.600 And I remember thinking, it totaled the car.

01:37:02.520 And I remember thinking, wow, the treatise doesn't move.

01:37:04.520 It doesn't matter how hard you hit it.

01:37:06.400 And that was Charlie.

01:37:07.900 He was just a towering white pine man.

01:37:09.920 He was just not—it didn't matter how hard you hit him.

01:37:12.500 He just wasn't moving.

01:37:15.060 There's a few things I respect more than that.

01:37:18.020 Well, Tucker, it's been a pleasure.

01:37:21.560 One of my favorite shows.

01:37:23.000 And I think it was so fitting that you capped off the week.

01:37:25.800 And I know you're going to be speaking at his celebration.

01:37:30.100 About Jesus, not politics, to be clear.

01:37:32.380 And I'm so glad that we could take some time to talk about Jesus, not politics, because that's the whole point.

01:37:38.760 Well, it's funny.

01:37:39.760 When I first started being around you, the way you would talk about faith was much more reticent and reserved.

01:37:47.340 And Charlie has made a convert out of you.

01:37:50.580 And you are proclaiming the truth as well as any preacher I've ever heard.

01:37:53.520 So thank you, Tucker Carlson.

01:37:54.760 Thank you very much.

01:37:55.040 May God bless you.

01:37:56.100 God bless you.

01:37:56.620 May God bless the reach of your word.

01:38:00.400 Thank you.

01:38:01.920 Thanks so much.

01:38:02.880 Talk to you soon.

The Tucker Carlson Show - September 20, 2025

Tucker Carlson Hosts The Charlie Kirk Show

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