The Tucker Carlson Show - Tucker Confronts Ted Cruz on His Support for Regime Change in Iran

00:00:00.000 No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express.

00:00:07.360 Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca.

00:00:15.240 Senator, thank you very much for spending the time to have this conversation.

00:00:18.180 It's good to be with you.

00:00:18.980 So you've come out for regime change in Iran as distinct just from taking out the nuclear sites.

00:00:23.660 What does regime change look like in Iran?

00:00:26.020 Somebody else in charge.

00:00:28.180 How do you get there?

00:00:30.000 Look, that ultimately has to be a popular uprising for the people.

00:00:33.300 And it's not a complicated question. 0.62

00:00:36.080 Is America better off with a country that has a leader who hates us and wants to kill us,

00:00:43.100 or to have a country with a leader who likes us and wants to be friends with us?

00:00:47.020 Well, definitely the latter is better.

00:00:48.440 Of course.

00:00:49.080 And so that's not a complicated statement.

00:00:52.620 Look, I believe you look across the world when you have countries that have dictators that are viciously anti-America.

00:00:58.800 Venezuela, Maduro hates us.

00:01:00.480 Would we be better off with Maduro out of power?

00:01:03.220 Absolutely.

00:01:03.900 I want our enemies out of power and I want our friends in power.

00:01:08.140 I could not agree more.

00:01:09.740 The question is how do you get there?

00:01:10.900 Of course. 0.89

00:01:11.280 We've been trying to kill Maduro for quite some time.

00:01:13.680 We have troops there.

00:01:14.660 I don't know that we've been trying to kill Maduro.

00:01:16.180 We have, and I think you know that.

00:01:19.220 Okay, I don't know that.

00:01:20.440 Okay, well, as a statement of fact, we have.

00:01:22.760 We do have massive sanctions.

00:01:24.240 We try to pressure them out of office.

00:01:25.280 Yeah, and there's all kinds of stuff.

00:01:26.380 I'm not aware of that.

00:01:27.040 I'm just saying there's a lot of pressure coming from various parts of the U.S. government on that government,

00:01:32.000 and it's still there.

00:01:33.220 Yeah.

00:01:33.440 Same, the country of very ancestors, Cuba, you know, 1959, we've been working on that, hasn't it?

00:01:39.240 So we both agree it's hard to do that.

00:01:42.620 It absolutely is hard, and look, I think you're reasonable to ask, how do we produce that?

00:01:47.540 And I think there's a distinction between what your objective is and the means to get it.

00:01:52.440 There are all sorts of things I would say we would be better off.

00:01:55.180 We'd be better off in China without Xi there.

00:01:57.540 Should we invade China and topple Xi?

00:01:59.280 Of course not.

00:01:59.840 Better off with no national debt.

00:02:01.520 There are lots of things.

00:02:02.920 Totally.

00:02:03.440 But it's good to say, all right, what are our objectives?

00:02:05.580 And so with the Ayatollah in Iran saying you're for regime change, I don't view it as complicated.

00:02:10.720 I mean, the guy literally leads mobs chanting death to America.

00:02:15.740 So that's not good.

00:02:17.900 Definitely not good.

00:02:20.080 But the reason I think it's important to get a little more detailed about how that might happen

00:02:25.420 is because there's military action in progress, which we're supporting.

00:02:28.240 And the president has said clearly, including last night, that he is focused on eliminating

00:02:32.920 the capacity of the Iranian government to produce nuclear weapons.

00:02:36.060 You are saying we need to use military force to affect regime change.

00:02:40.200 I have not said that.

00:02:41.560 Oh, I must have.

00:02:42.520 No, no, I have not said that once.

00:02:44.720 I don't think we need to use military force to do regime change.

00:02:47.800 I said I support it.

00:02:48.960 I would like to see it happen.

00:02:50.160 You asked me how should it happen.

00:02:51.600 A popular uprising.

00:02:52.920 So what I've advocated for.

00:02:55.480 All right.

00:02:55.760 Let's step back a second.

00:02:56.620 You and I, we've known each other a long time.

00:03:01.120 I would say we agree on about 80% of the things on Earth.

00:03:05.180 For sure.

00:03:06.100 And there are a lot of things, and we can get into the nitty gritty of foreign policy as

00:03:11.720 much as you want.

00:03:13.320 There are a lot of things on which you and I agree, not just a little bit, but violently.

00:03:17.820 I totally agree.

00:03:19.060 I was rooting for you in your last campaign, for sure.

00:03:21.140 Well, thank you.

00:03:21.940 Look, you have been heroic on the border.

00:03:24.760 You've been one of the clearest and best voices in the whole country on securing the

00:03:30.380 border and on the absolute crisis we're facing.

00:03:32.940 And in Texas, I see it and live it every day.

00:03:37.020 In COVID, in fact, you may recall in the middle of the COVID lockdown, I was out walking my

00:03:43.640 dog when the whole world was shut down and we were living in lunatic times.

00:03:47.000 And I called you and said, Tucker, your nightly monologues are the single best thing on television.

00:03:51.980 Like, I watched them like an injection of crack.

00:03:55.420 Okay, I'm mixing my metaphor because you don't inject crack.

00:03:57.780 But you get what I'm saying.

00:03:59.180 You could try.

00:04:00.460 No, I mean, it was, you were standing up and speaking like, what the hell are we doing

00:04:05.520 in a way that we desperately, desperately needed?

00:04:08.800 And so whether it's securing the border, whether it's the insanity of COVID lockdowns and the

00:04:13.480 vaccine mandates, whether it is the Second Amendment or the First Amendment, you and I

00:04:18.820 agree on a ton of stuff. The 20% where we disagree, I do think is meaningful. And it's

00:04:24.740 mostly in the foreign policy space. And what I would say, if you'll allow me to get a little

00:04:33.460 theoretical and then I'm happy to get specific.

00:04:35.660 Yeah. For a long time, people have perceived two different poles of Republican foreign policy.

00:04:44.540 There have been interventionists and those have been people like John McCain and Lindsey

00:04:50.140 Graham, George W. Bush. And there have been isolationists. And then the most prominent of

00:04:54.920 those have been Ron Paul and Rand Paul and there are others. And people perceive those are the two

00:04:59.700 choices. You've got to be one or the other. I've always thought both were wrong. I don't agree

00:05:04.060 with either one. The way I view my own foreign policy...

00:05:08.140 I'm with you, by the way, for whatever it's worth. I agree with you.

00:05:11.140 Okay, good.

00:05:11.480 I don't know who set up that binary, but there are lots of choices, actually.

00:05:14.940 I mean, people sort of naturally fall into, I think they want to classify people and they're

00:05:19.780 like, okay, you're one or the other and you've got to be all or nothing. And the interventionists,

00:05:25.420 it seems, have never seen a country they didn't want to invade. And that doesn't make any sense

00:05:28.520 to me. And the isolationists, I think, don't take the threats to America seriously. And I think

00:05:34.700 that's naive and it doesn't work. And so my view, I consider myself a third point on the triangle.

00:05:41.600 And what I describe that as is that I am a non-interventionist hawk, which sounds a little

00:05:48.800 weird, but what do I mean by that? I mean the central touchpoint for U.S. foreign policy and for any

00:05:56.320 question of military intervention should be the vital national security interest of the United

00:06:01.500 States. How does this make America safer? How does this protect Americans? If it does,

00:06:07.240 we should be strong. And actually another way of conceiving what I'm saying, I'm speaking

00:06:11.660 theoretically, but Reagan referred to it as peace through strength. And actually, I think Donald

00:06:18.380 Trump's foreign policy is very much what I'm describing, a non-interventionist hawk, where

00:06:24.420 he understands, and I think this is historically true, the best way to avoid war is being strong.

00:06:33.280 That weakness and isolationism, I think, encourages war. So going back to regime change, where you

00:06:42.240 started in Iran. Just to make, I don't think I disagree with anything you've said. So we may not be

00:06:47.760 that far apart, really, because you said that the single criterion for making decisions about

00:06:54.520 America's foreign policy is America's national interest. Yes. That's it. Yeah. Which is also

00:06:59.180 America first. That's another way of putting that as well. I guess the definition of it. It's hardly

00:07:02.740 breaking news. The U.S. dollar has been gravely devalued by Washington money printing. You print money

00:07:09.380 out of thin air and the currency becomes weaker. You can purchase less with the same amount. The entire

00:07:16.620 system is backed by nothing but the government's word. What is that worth? People around the world

00:07:21.500 are beginning to ask. So one of the results of this is that a lot of people want to invest in

00:07:26.340 crypto. Many don't know where to start. That's where iTrust Capital comes in. Their platform makes

00:07:31.040 the crypto game smarter, easier, safer, and you can understand it. With iTrust Capital, you buy and sell

00:07:37.740 crypto inside a tax-advantaged IRA. That means the same long-term tax benefits of a retirement account

00:07:43.060 paired with the freedom to invest in digital assets. They also offer secure non-retirement

00:07:48.420 accounts, use an airtight security system, and have real human beings, experts on call. If you ever

00:07:54.200 need them, you just call up and you can talk to them in person. Creating an account is very simple.

00:07:58.520 It takes just a few minutes. Click the link below or visit iTrustCapital.com to start today.

00:08:04.620 When you're having a meal, you probably want to know where the food came from. We trust a great

00:08:10.640 company called Freeze Dry Wholesalers. Unlike most food conglomerates, they make all of their products

00:08:16.400 in the United States. Beef, chicken, cheese, seafood, and dessert supplies. And with food that lasts

00:08:23.160 until 2050, you'll be covered no matter what the future holds. Zombies, aliens, it won't matter.

00:08:29.380 An all-American and veteran-owned company. Visit freeze-drywholesalers.com and use code

00:08:34.820 TUCKER for 15% off every time you shop. The GMC employee pricing event is on now.

00:08:41.860 Get a big cash purchase discount of up to $12,300 on the 2025 GMC Sierra 1500 and the 2025 Sierra HD.

00:08:51.200 With Sierra 1500's premium interior and advanced tech or Sierra HD's impressive power and capability,

00:08:57.340 you'll have everything you need to get from work to play with confidence this season.

00:09:02.300 Hurry in. Employee pricing is on for a limited time. Visit your local GMC dealer for details.

00:09:08.160 Are we watching that now?

00:09:09.600 So I think we are. And from what you've said publicly, I think on Iran in particular,

00:09:15.740 you and I disagree. And all right, let me contrast it. When Obama was president,

00:09:22.360 when Obama was president, you remember he talked about wanting to have military action against Syria.

00:09:29.380 And at the time, I tried to keep an open mind to it. I said, okay, let me listen to the commander

00:09:33.540 in chief. Describe to me how this is in America's interest and what your plan is. And Bashar Assad

00:09:38.800 was a bad guy. He was killing his own citizens and he had chemical weapons that were very dangerous. 0.95

00:09:46.180 I could conceive of a commander in chief laying out a plan for, okay, we're going to go in and say,

00:09:53.360 grab the chemical weapons and leave. Like I could see that if there was a real threat to America and 1.00

00:09:58.720 there was a plan to prevent that, I could see supporting that. So I wanted to hear what he had

00:10:02.460 to say. And I listened both in classified briefings and public questioning. And number one,

00:10:09.000 their public defense of it was incoherent. So John Kerry said, we're going to engage in an

00:10:16.060 unbelievably small strike. I think that's a quote. I'm like, okay. And to do what? At the time,

00:10:22.400 there were nine major rebel Islamic groups in Syria. I'm like, okay, I agree. Bashar Assad's a 0.98

00:10:27.340 bad guy. You topple him. And one of the nine other groups takes over. Seven of them were affiliated

00:10:32.820 with radical Islamic terrorism. You had Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra. I'm like, wait, how is it better

00:10:38.220 to have lunatics who hate us in charge? Assad's a bad guy, but I don't want worse guys in charge. 0.98

00:10:44.540 Obama administration couldn't give an answer to that. And ultimately, when you press them,

00:10:50.620 John Kerry in particular, I pressed and he would say, well, we need to defend international norms.

00:10:56.920 What the hell's an international norm? I don't know what it is, but I'm not interested in putting

00:11:01.180 U.S. servicemen and women in harm's way to defend one. Amen. So I opposed the Syria attack and opposed

00:11:06.780 it vocally. And it was interesting. Rand and I agreed. Rand's a friend of mine. But we agreed with

00:11:12.480 that position for different reasons. What I was asking is, is I think the question we should ask,

00:11:19.440 how does this make America safer? The Obama administration couldn't give me an answer,

00:11:23.520 so I opposed it. I think Iran is very different. Let me ask what you think of how Syria wound up,

00:11:29.220 because Bashar Assad now lives in Moscow. Yeah. He was taken out by our allies. And he's been replaced

00:11:36.340 by a radical Islamist who was affiliated with ISIS. So is that a win or no? Unclear. Look, Syria is a

00:11:42.600 mess. So I've consistently opposed. But we had a secular leader in a religious and ethnically

00:11:48.020 diverse country. Now we have a religious extremist, Islamic religious extremist, who's overseen the

00:11:53.700 purge of Christians and Alawites. Is that better? That doesn't seem like a win. Well, look, one of the 1.00

00:11:57.800 things you said is you said he was taken out by our allies. I don't think that's right. Israel didn't take 0.94

00:12:02.420 Assad out. What happened, and I'll tell you. What about Turkey? Turkey didn't take him out. So it was 0.83

00:12:07.860 interesting. I had a long time. How did Assad get kicked out? Yeah. When Netanyahu was in D.C. a couple

00:12:16.600 of months ago, he and I sat down for a couple of hours. He's a good friend of mine. And we talked

00:12:21.820 actually about Syria. He made an interesting point that I've not heard anywhere else, in that he said

00:12:27.320 he believes what toppled Assad was when Israel took out Nasrallah. Nasrallah was the head of Hezbollah,

00:12:35.360 and they took him out. And he made an interesting point. He said, it's fascinating how a charismatic

00:12:40.940 leader, and Bibi said, look, Nasrallah was a very effective terrorist leader. And when they took him

00:12:47.420 out, that power base was supporting Assad. And that ultimately, in Bibi's analysis, removed the support

00:12:54.780 from Assad and toppled him. But they weren't trying to take out Assad. My view now, I don't know.

00:13:01.420 So you don't think that, and I don't, it is very confusing, and I don't know that anyone really

00:13:06.220 knows all the details, but you don't think that Israel or Turkey or NATO ally Turkey played any

00:13:11.440 role in toppling Assad? I don't know. I don't know that they did. Look, my understanding of that,

00:13:16.880 they clearly took out Nasrallah and Hezbollah. They've decimated Hezbollah, but Hezbollah is waging war on

00:13:21.760 them. So decimating Hezbollah was very good for Israel and very good for America, too. I mean, 0.93

00:13:27.200 Hezbollah hated us. I would put Assad in the category of an unintended consequence, and whether

00:13:36.480 it's good or bad, I don't know. I think time will tell. For the United States. Yeah, for the United

00:13:42.640 States. I think time will tell the new leadership there. You're right to be concerned. Let me step back

00:13:51.040 and let's talk regime change generally. I mentioned Syria. I also opposed the Iraq war. I think the

00:13:57.280 Iraq war was a serious mistake. And we have a pattern, and going back to this binary of the 0.99

00:14:03.360 interventionists and the isolationists, the interventionists advocate over and over again.

00:14:09.680 There's a bad guy. There's a dictator who's doing bad things to his people, and they say,

00:14:13.560 let's go topple them. And you have dictators in the Middle East who are killing radical Islamic 0.98

00:14:17.940 terrorists. We come in and topple them. The radical Islamic terrorists take over, and they start 0.99

00:14:22.640 killing Americans. And mind you, how the heck does that help us? Like, Saddam Hussein was a horrible 0.99

00:14:29.060 human being. He murdered and tortured people. Unequivocally bad guy. But it got much worse after 1.00

00:14:35.460 we toppled him. And you ended up having ISIS rise up. I mean, that was the cause of ISIS was toppling

00:14:41.780 Saddam Hussein. Same thing in Libya. You had Qaddafi, another horrible guy, that under Obama,

00:14:48.420 we toppled him. And you ended up having radical Islamic warlords taking over. And so it's the 0.79

00:14:55.660 question I asked in Syria. Okay, well, what's the plan? And how is this good or bad for the United

00:15:02.160 States? And so I don't think with Iran, I view Iran as very different from Iraq.

00:15:07.600 But up to that point, you say we disagree. I don't hear really anything. I'm not quite sure

00:15:12.120 what happened in Syria, but I don't know. So, right. But other than that, I don't hear anything

00:15:16.080 I disagree with at all. Yeah. Sounds like we're in a complete agreement. I wonder, though,

00:15:20.160 is there a successful regime change that the United States supported that you're aware of

00:15:24.940 in the last hundred years? Sure. Defeating the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union collapsing,

00:15:31.960 winning the Cold War, that that was the most consequential step for U.S. national security

00:15:39.180 interests of our lifetimes. Okay. So you would classify that as a regime change that we affected?

00:15:45.440 Absolutely. Okay. And look, you and I are in my office. We're sitting next to a painting of Reagan

00:15:53.260 in front of the Brandenburg Gate. And up top are the words, tear down this wall in German,

00:16:01.340 in the style of the graffiti. Right. And I think those are the most important words any leader has

00:16:06.480 said in modern times. And if you look at how Reagan waged the Cold War, and Reagan is very much my model

00:16:14.180 for how to, I actually think how Reagan took on the Soviet Union is exactly how we should take on China. 0.62

00:16:20.000 Now, starting from the point, look, Reagan was not an interventionist. In eight years,

00:16:25.560 the biggest country Reagan ever invaded was Grenada. He was very reluctant to use U.S. military

00:16:31.320 force. He didn't respond after the 83 barracks bombings. You're right. He made the judgment that

00:16:36.300 the risk exceeded the benefits. And that's a very rational decision to make. And it's reflected Trump

00:16:43.120 has made those same decisions where he is willing to use military force, but he very much

00:16:49.760 asks, OK, is this good or bad for America? Does this endanger U.S. servicemen and women or not?

00:16:57.760 And one of the points about the Cold War, look, nobody in their right mind wanted a shooting war

00:17:03.460 between America and the Soviet Union. The two biggest nuclear powers on Earth

00:17:06.440 firing bullets at each other is really unhealthy for human beings. Same thing is true with China. 1.00

00:17:13.220 Nobody with any sense says, hey, let's go to war with China. That's really dumb. 1.00

00:17:17.420 And a whole lot of people could die. But the Cold War showed we've got lots of tools 1.00

00:17:23.280 short of sending the Marines to fight against a regime. And one of the most important tools is the

00:17:30.460 bully pulpit. And so when I say I support regime change, I actually think just simply laying out

00:17:37.080 what the Ayatollah does. And so I spend a lot of time. I speak to Iranian dissident groups. I speak out

00:17:43.100 against human rights abuses. I think shining a light on the depravity of leaders is a really

00:17:49.740 powerful tool that America has. Should it should we limit our activity to that?

00:17:56.640 It it depends. Again, the U.S. government pays opposition groups, militarized opposition groups

00:18:04.680 in Iran to overthrow the government. We've done a lot of different places, as you know. I'm not I'm not

00:18:09.640 saying it's bad, but that's very different from what you're describing. You're saying we're making

00:18:13.020 a moral case, as we did for seven years with the Soviets. Our system works. Yours doesn't. 0.69

00:18:17.160 Yeah.

00:18:18.100 And I think we made a credible case for that. And we beat them over 70 years economically.

00:18:23.460 And that was a huge part of it.

00:18:25.320 Right. I think everyone would agree that was the main part of it. We didn't beat them in Vietnam 1.00

00:18:28.820 or North Korea.

00:18:30.560 The main part of it, but it was tied to a military buildup. So I think it was two things.

00:18:34.360 It was one, the clarity. So Reagan came in and he described the Soviet Union as an evil empire.

00:18:40.700 Right.

00:18:41.540 And all of the intelligentsia in D.C., all the Democrats, all the media, they're like,

00:18:47.500 what a horrible thing to say. You can't say that. Reagan went to the United Kingdom and he said,

00:18:52.860 Marxism, Leninism will end up on the ash heap of history. People were horrified.

00:18:57.340 They asked him, all right, what's what's your strategy in the Cold War? He said, very simple. We win, 0.57

00:19:01.680 they lose. And that was all viewed as as sort of a philistine simplicity. And I think it was

00:19:09.780 exactly right. And laying that out, speaking. Do you know the backstory behind the Berlin Wall

00:19:15.960 speech?

00:19:16.640 Yeah, I do. Yes.

00:19:17.580 You probably know Peter Robinson, who was a speech writer.

00:19:20.020 Yes.

00:19:20.920 So three times the State Department deleted those words from that speech. And three times

00:19:26.920 Reagan wrote it back. And the State Department argued, they said, Mr. President, you can't say this.

00:19:31.680 This is too bellicose. This is too provocative. And my favorite, they said, this is too unrealistic.

00:19:38.040 The Berlin Wall will stand to the end of time. And Reagan said, look, this is the whole point of

00:19:43.780 the speech. And less than three years after Reagan gave that speech, the Berlin Wall was torn to the

00:19:49.840 ground. And it wasn't knocked down by American army tanks. We didn't shoot missiles at it. It was

00:19:55.720 shining truth and light that tore it down. It was also rebuilding the American military. It was

00:20:04.240 what was then pejoratively called Star Wars, where the Soviet Union, their economy couldn't match our

00:20:09.680 military buildup, and it bankrupted them. That's an example of peace through strength.

00:20:14.580 We're sorry to say it, but this is not a very safe country. Walk through Oakland or Philadelphia.

00:20:18.720 Yeah, good luck. So most people, when they think about this, want to carry a firearm. And a lot of

00:20:24.880 us do. The problem is there can be massive consequences for that. Ask Kyle Rittenhouse.

00:20:30.080 Kyle Rittenhouse got off in the end, but he was innocent from the first moment. It was obvious

00:20:33.580 once on video, and he was facing life in prison anyway. That's what the anti-gun movement will do. 0.66

00:20:40.080 They'll throw you in prison for defending yourself with a firearm. And that's why a lot of Americans are

00:20:44.660 turning to Burna. It's a proudly American company. Burna makes self-defense launchers that hundreds of

00:20:50.720 law enforcement departments trust. They've sold over 600,000 pistols, mostly to private citizens who

00:20:56.540 refuse to be empty-handed. These pistols, and I have one, fire rock-hard kinetic rounds or tear gas

00:21:02.520 rounds and pepper projectiles, and they stop a threat from up to 60 feet away. There are no background

00:21:07.960 checks. There are no waiting periods. Burna can ship it directly to your door. You can't be arrested for

00:21:13.880 defending yourself with a Burna pistol. Visit Burna, B-Y-R-N-A.com or your local sportsman's

00:21:20.560 warehouse to get yours today. Burna.com. Your identity is constantly under attack. In just the

00:21:26.340 last year, Americans lost over $16 billion to scammers online. Anyone can fall victim to this.

00:21:33.240 Your social security number, your bank account, your credit profile can be exposed, and you won't even

00:21:37.100 know it. And the second they are exposed, thieves can take out loans to your name, open credit cards,

00:21:42.680 wreck your life financially. Identity Guard can save you. Identity Guard monitors everything from

00:21:48.020 your credit card to your bank accounts to your social security number, looking for early signs

00:21:52.080 of fraud before damage is done. If something weird happens, you get an instant alert. If someone does

00:21:57.860 steal your identity, Identity Guard's expert team works directly with banks, credit card companies,

00:22:02.200 and lenders to shut it down quickly. End the scam. Having your identity stolen is a nightmare. Someone in

00:22:08.280 this country becomes a victim of identity theft every six seconds. Identity Guard protects

00:22:14.620 you. 30-day free trial and exclusive discount at identityguard.com slash Tucker. Protect yourself

00:22:21.120 before it's too late. Identityguard.com slash Tucker. It's one of the saddest things about this country.

00:22:26.060 The country's getting sicker. Despite all of our wealth and technology, Americans aren't doing well 0.99

00:22:31.160 overall. Obesity, heart disease, autoimmune conditions, all kinds of horrible chronic illnesses,

00:22:35.760 weird cancers. They're all on the rise. Probably a lot of reasons for this, but one of them definitely

00:22:40.280 is Americans don't eat very well anymore. They don't eat real food. Instead, they eat industrial

00:22:44.980 substitutes, and it's not good. It's time for something new, and that's where masa chips come in.

00:22:51.740 Masa has decided to revive real food by creating snacks how they used to be made, how they're supposed

00:22:56.940 to be made. A masa chip has just three simple ingredients, not 117. Three. No seed oils,

00:23:03.500 no artificial additives, just real delicious food. And I know this because we eat a ton of them in

00:23:08.420 my house. And by the way, I feel great. So you can still continue to snack, but you can do it in a

00:23:13.400 healthy way with chips without feeling guilty about it. Masa chips are delicious. They taste how a

00:23:18.740 tortilla chip is supposed to taste. But the thing is, you can hit them really, really hard, and I have,

00:23:24.600 and not feel bloated or sluggish after. You feel like you've done something decent for your body.

00:23:29.440 You don't feel like you got a head injury, or you don't feel filled with guilt. You feel light

00:23:34.260 and energetic. It's the kind of snack your grandparents ate. Worth bringing back. So

00:23:37.980 you can go to masachips.com. Masa's M-A-S-A, by the way. Masachips.com slash Tucker to start snacking.

00:23:43.740 Get 25% off. We enjoy them. You will too. I wonder, I mean, is there anybody who was alive in 1989

00:23:49.820 who wouldn't trade that America for the one we live in now? There's not one person, I don't think.

00:23:54.240 Oh, sure. Oh, but I mean, just the basic metrics, debt, suicide rate, life expectancy. It was,

00:24:01.720 I wonder why after that victory, America didn't thrive in the way that we thought that it would,

00:24:08.220 that I thought that it would. My family was involved in that. I mean, we were very focused

00:24:11.420 on it in my house. Like, we won. And I wonder two things. Why didn't the United States kind of

00:24:16.920 declare victory and make some sort of arrangement with Russia that allowed, like, mutual prosperity

00:24:23.060 rather than continuing a cold war? And second, I wonder why the United States didn't get a lot

00:24:28.140 better. Like, why don't we have better infrastructure? Why don't we have fewer

00:24:30.560 homeless? Why do we have all these drugs? Like, if we won, why does our country look like this?

00:24:34.200 I walked across from Union Station this morning, as you do, I'm sure, every day. And all those people

00:24:38.480 lying in the street and sleeping outside. It's like, what is that?

00:24:41.620 Look, there's no doubt there are really dangerous forces in our society. Some of it is politics and some of

00:24:48.960 it is culture. And one of the mistakes people make in politics is thinking everything is politics. So

00:24:54.140 the political answer, which I happen to believe, is we went much further down the road of liberalism.

00:24:59.440 You look at Bill Clinton, who inherited the peace dividend of the Cold War being over and

00:25:04.080 moved us more to the left, and then Obama accelerated it a lot. And so there are lots of

00:25:09.440 bad economic policies. But I also think they're cultural things.

00:25:13.360 I agree with all of that. I know what you're going to say, and I agree 100%. I bet there's

00:25:20.280 not one word that I would disagree with. All I'm saying is, I think it's important to step

00:25:24.700 back and ask. But I actually think Russia has very little to do with it.

00:25:27.500 Well, that's kind of the point that I'm trying to make, which is, like, we're all sort of

00:25:31.540 focused on beating our adversaries abroad. But what is victory worth if our own country

00:25:35.320 becomes what it is now? And maybe we're spending a little too much time focused abroad and not

00:25:40.700 enough time focused on the people sleeping outside Union Station.

00:25:43.940 So, look, I absolutely think we need to focus at home emphatically, and we need to focus on

00:25:49.580 prosperity. We need to focus on reducing the debt, reducing spending, empowering people,

00:25:54.660 low taxes, small businesses. American free enterprise, it's the most powerful force

00:25:59.360 for fighting poverty the world has ever seen. I'm a thousand percent there. I also recognize it is a

00:26:06.700 dangerous world. And part of the responsibility of leaders, part of President Trump's responsibility

00:26:12.400 is to keep America safe. Let's go back to where we started with Iran. 0.97

00:26:16.460 Can I ask, you've been in the district a long time in D.C., so have I. And the city's way more

00:26:21.160 dangerous, and Congress runs this. No, no, it's a complete crapple.

00:26:24.000 So, I'm saying, like, no Iranians ever going to kill me, but I could get carjacked here. 1.00

00:26:28.640 And I just don't understand how the Congress could run this city and focus on the dangers of Iran 0.99

00:26:33.360 when the city is, like, garbage. It's garbage. But Congress doesn't run the city. We could. 1.00

00:26:39.080 Congress does run the city. It's in the Constitution, I think. It's in the Constitution,

00:26:42.000 but they've given home rule, so it's a Democrat mayor. You can take it back. You can tell the

00:26:45.360 Congress. I'd vote for it, but it is a question of math. Okay, but I'm just saying, like, why,

00:26:51.200 how can people ignore, it's like, if my own kids are drug addicts, but I'm focused on my neighbor's

00:26:56.580 kids, it's like I'm neglecting my own kids. And there's a sense in which the Congress is neglecting

00:27:01.380 the country that elected them in favor of this relentless focus on other people's problems.

00:27:06.660 That's the way it feels as an American. Look, there are lots of problems in America that we

00:27:12.320 need to fix. Why is D.C. a pit? Because you have a mayor and a Democrat city council that won't let 1.00

00:27:18.600 police officers arrest bad guys. And in every city you see across the country, whether it's New York,

00:27:23.240 whether it's Chicago, whether it's L.A., whether it's San Francisco, if you have Democrats,

00:27:27.820 we see the L.A. riots where they won't let people be arrested. All right. Then why not work

00:27:32.540 in regime change here? Why not use the bully pulpit? I do. What do you think I do every day?

00:27:37.140 I've never seen a Republican senator stand up and say, I just walked to work this morning over people

00:27:41.580 dying of drug IDs. We're going to shut this place down unless they fix it. They're mad about Putin.

00:27:46.880 Like, what did Putin do to Washington? Nothing. Look, in terms of regime change, let's talk this week,

00:27:52.360 the riots in L.A. I've made very clear that the cause of those riots are Gavin Newsom and Karen

00:27:59.060 Bass. And when you elect communists who hate America, who stop law enforcement from arresting

00:28:03.660 criminals, you get what you get on the streets. Amen, I agree. My in-laws are Californians,

00:28:08.200 and they're wonderful people. Heidi grew up on the central coast of California. And I remember I was

00:28:12.500 texting with my mother-in-law, and I think I sent her a video of criminals going to a store and just

00:28:20.300 looting in California. And her response, she said something like, well, this is really terrible.

00:28:25.640 I wish we could. It's a shame we can't do anything about this. So, yes, you can. Go in and arrest them.

00:28:31.640 Throw their butts in jail. Put them in handcuffs. And it stops. Exactly. And so we know how to fix 1.00

00:28:37.660 these things. And D.C. is, I think D.C. voted, if I remember right, 92 percent Democrat.

00:28:43.680 Democrat policies don't work, and they destroy every community that they are in charge of.

00:28:51.440 Then why don't Republicans assert their constitutional authority over the city? 0.95

00:28:55.520 Don't they control the Congress? Yes, I'd be all for it. Who's against it?

00:29:00.680 Susan Collins is really vocally against it. So on questions of home rule. So, for example,

00:29:05.900 let's take an issue you and I care a lot about, the COVID lockdowns. I had a couple of years ago in

00:29:10.760 the middle of them. D.C. was proposing, the D.C. school district was proposing throwing out of

00:29:17.640 school any child that was not vaccinated. And at the time, if I remember correctly, it was something

00:29:23.540 like 40 percent of the African-American students in D.C. were not vaccinated. So we're talking about

00:29:28.440 literally throwing out 40 percent of the kids at public school. And so I had a vote on the Senate

00:29:32.700 floor to say, look, they can't throw kids out of school for this. And we ended up having a big

00:29:38.120 argument. And part of the argument was home rule where there were. And Susan was the most vocal 1.00

00:29:42.960 Republican. It's like, no, no, no, we have to let D.C. run. And I'm like, why? Constitution gives us

00:29:47.440 the power to do it. And it ended up, by the way, every single Democrat, all of them voted in favor

00:29:53.800 of the D.C. public schools being able to throw out 40 percent of the black kids from school.

00:29:59.000 And I said, look, you throw a kid out of school. You got a 14, 15 year old boy. You throw him out of

00:30:03.080 school. You know what's going to happen next. He's going to join a gang. He's going to engage in crimes.

00:30:07.300 He's going to engage in drugs. He could be dead within five years if that kid doesn't get an

00:30:12.060 education. And the Democrats were more than happy to say, we don't care. Right now, our religion is

00:30:16.460 get get the vaccine or we're to hell with you. But can you see I mean, I again, once again, 0.99

00:30:22.620 I couldn't agree with you more. But can you feel the frustration of people, including your voters,

00:30:27.580 ever, you know, every American at the emphasis on foreign countries and the threat we supposedly face,

00:30:34.180 a lot of which is fake, obviously, over over the kind of slowly unfolding tragedy of what's

00:30:42.620 happening to our country? The dollar spent, the aid packages to Ukraine to pay the retirement of

00:30:49.300 civil servants in a country that we have nothing to do with the endless support for Israel,

00:30:56.300 very expensive when people are literally buying groceries on credit in the United States.

00:31:01.560 Can you feel like it's nothing against Ukraine or Israel? All right, let's stop. You said the

00:31:05.880 support for Israel, very expensive. How much support do we give to Israel? Well, you tell me you vote

00:31:10.620 for it. It's about three billion a year is the military assistance. Was that the only assistance?

00:31:14.580 Yeah, we just have military assistance. Israel does not have additional assistance. There's there's an

00:31:19.320 MOU, a memorandum of understanding, and it's three billion a year.

00:31:22.000 So what is it costing the support of the bombing campaign to protect Israel right now from Iran? 0.99

00:31:28.900 So I don't know right now, but I'll tell you this. Let's go back to the touchstone on foreign policy,

00:31:34.460 American interest. Our support, our military support for Israel is massively in America's

00:31:41.460 national security. And it benefits us enormously. Well, before we can make independent judgments about

00:31:46.940 whether or not that's true, and I'm certainly open to it, I think we need to know what it costs. So

00:31:50.940 what's the annual cost of defending Israel? Do you know? Three billion a year. That's the aid. But I

00:31:56.080 mean, the cost of the weapons, for example, the cost of U.S. personnel there, the cost of moving

00:32:02.620 ships to the region, which we're doing right now, the cost of moving tankers, all of that. Do we know

00:32:07.260 what the cost is? So look, the last week, I don't know. And there's some lag when the administration

00:32:12.100 under the Constitution, the commander in chief has control of the armed forces. And so President

00:32:16.040 Trump has made some decisions that will know the cost over time. But I don't know the last week that

00:32:21.900 that I don't have visibility on that. The annual cost is three billion. That's that's it's a 10 year

00:32:28.200 memorandum of understanding. And that's that's the principal driver of the cost. But let me make a

00:32:32.280 point. We get massive benefits from Israel. Israel shares the Mossad is one of the best intelligence 0.83

00:32:40.100 sources on the planet. The enemies of Israel, the people who hate Israel, they all hate us.

00:32:45.760 It's almost a perfect overlap. And so if we tried to recreate if we're just trying to defend America,

00:32:51.320 we tried to recreate the national security benefits of our alliance with Israel. It would cost, I don't

00:32:57.520 know, 30 billion, 300 billion. So can you elaborate? And again, I'm going into this as someone who's

00:33:03.100 always liked Israel and still does. But I also think at this point, given where we are, it's fair to ask

00:33:08.500 rational questions about what the benefits are. Good. So does Mossad share all of its intelligence

00:33:15.540 with us? Oh, probably not. But they share a lot. We don't share all of our intelligence with them,

00:33:20.220 but we share a lot. It's a close alliance. Do they spy domestically in the United States?

00:33:24.240 Oh, they probably do. And we do as well. And friends and allies spy on each other. And I assume

00:33:28.760 all of our allies spy on us. And that's OK with you? You know what? One of the things about being

00:33:34.380 a conservative is that you're not naive and utopian. You don't think humans are all... Part

00:33:40.160 of the reason socialism doesn't work is the mantra from each according to his abilities to each

00:33:45.380 according to his needs doesn't work. As a conservative, I assume people act in their

00:33:49.800 rational self-interest. So it's conservative to pay people to spy on you?

00:33:53.820 It's conservative to recognize that human beings act in their own self-interest. And every one of our

00:33:58.600 friends spies on us. And I'm not... Do you like it? That's my question. I'm not asking whether they

00:34:03.020 have motive to do it. Of course they do. I understand that. And I... And by the way...

00:34:06.800 I'm not mad at them. But you're an American lawmaker, so I just want to know... Hold on.

00:34:10.900 I want to know your attitude. You said that your guiding principle, in fact, the only principle,

00:34:16.740 the only criterion... I said guiding. The overwhelming. I wouldn't say only.

00:34:20.020 Is it in America's interest? Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, 0.83

00:34:23.640 including on the president? It is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because

00:34:31.160 we get huge benefits for it. And you want to see the clear...

00:34:34.940 But I just want to stop on the spying for a second. That it takes place, as you know,

00:34:39.360 including on the president of the United States and several precedents. And I just want to know

00:34:44.780 if that's okay. And why is it okay? Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to a client state,

00:34:50.220 you're not allowed to spy on us. I'm sorry. I know why you want to. I'm not mad at you,

00:34:53.100 but you're not allowed to. Sure.

00:34:54.420 And I don't care for it. I don't want to be spied on by you. Is that...

00:34:56.940 It's kind of weird not to say that, but you don't seem able to say that.

00:35:02.300 Sure. I would say don't spy on us. They're going to anyway. And by the way,

00:35:05.360 the Brits are, the Canadians are. Like, I don't think... 0.96

00:35:07.940 Well, I'm not for that at all. I think it's disgusting, but we don't actually pay their...

00:35:12.540 You know, we're not their most meaningful sponsor. We're not sort of paying for the

00:35:16.020 operations of the British government.

00:35:17.180 So I had to say, and this is... It's weird. We're talking about isolation. It's the obsession

00:35:22.980 with Israel. Why is Israel...

00:35:24.860 I don't think I'm obsessed with Israel. Okay. But I think a lot of people are. And

00:35:27.580 like the question, Israel spies on us. Well, so does every other country. Why are you mad

00:35:30.820 at Israel? I guess... Oh, no, no, no. I'm... I'm hardly the one who's... I've never taken

00:35:35.440 money from the Israel lobby. Have you?

00:35:37.900 Taken money from the Israel... From AIPAC.

00:35:40.120 So AIPAC raises a lot of money for me, but it's actually a misnomer because the people who

00:35:44.120 raise money are individuals. So it's not the PAC itself, but they're individual members who

00:35:49.080 believe in the American-Israeli friendship and relationship.

00:35:52.900 Is it a foreign lobby? No, it's an American lobby. It's the... AIPAC stands for the

00:35:57.340 America-Israeli Political Action Committee. What is it lobby for?

00:36:00.500 So, to be honest, not a whole lot effectively. Listen, I came into Congress 13 years ago...

00:36:08.420 Yes. ...with the stated intention of being the leading defender of Israel in the United

00:36:12.720 States Senate, and I've worked every day to do that. AIPAC, a lot of times... AIPAC, I wish

00:36:20.120 were much more effective. Like, there are folks online who are in the fever swamp of terrified

00:36:25.980 of AIPAC, and AIPAC... I'm not terrified of AIPAC at all. I'm... You're the one who seems a little

00:36:30.220 uncomfortable when I'm asking this. No, I'm not uncomfortable at all.

00:36:32.040 I'm just asking what AIPAC does. My understanding, having known a lot of people who want AIPAC...

00:36:36.220 I can tell you. I deal with them all the time. ...is that it lobbies on behalf of the Israeli 0.96

00:36:40.100 government. Wrong. Oh, okay. It's...

00:36:43.300 America has thousands of colleges and universities, and a lot of them, unfortunately, are basically

00:36:46.840 just scams. It's one of those things nobody really wants to talk about, but everybody on

00:36:50.260 some level knows that it's true. What's an impressive college in 2025? There aren't many

00:36:55.840 at all. Hillsdale is one of them. It is the exception. They cut straight through the woke

00:37:00.440 garbage. They give their students a real education, an actual education. Meet a Hillsdale 0.98

00:37:05.200 student, and ask yourself, is this the best educated 22-year-old I've met in a long time?

00:37:08.900 Yeah. Because they don't have propaganda in their education, just the truth, facts, history,

00:37:14.220 English, math. If you think it sounds good, because it is good, think of this. Hillsdale

00:37:19.060 is offering over 40 free online courses you can enroll in today. There's no catch at all.

00:37:23.800 You don't have to pay anything. Not going to hit you up for anything. It's free. You can

00:37:27.440 learn about the Constitution, the Bible, the basis of Western civilization, Rome's rise

00:37:32.460 in fall, early Christian church, things that actually matter, not one dime. Free. They have 0.96

00:37:38.280 a new class called Understanding Capitalism that teaches Americans basic economic ideas,

00:37:44.520 describes our own system, a system that is falling apart. A lot of people want you to hate,

00:37:49.680 but for 250 years has been the best and most productive in the world. You'll understand the

00:37:54.660 basis of our economy from founding till president. Hillsdale, not afraid to preach the message our

00:38:01.200 country has forgotten, which is freedom is good. Christianity is good. Markets are good.

00:38:07.460 And they make this country better by raising well-educated students. We endorse this as a

00:38:14.340 college hater. I love Hillsdale. Go to tuckerforhillsdale.com to sign up for Understanding Capitalism

00:38:20.460 today. The course is Understanding Capitalism. Zero cost, just the truth. That's tuckerforhillsdale.com

00:38:26.260 to enroll for free. Remember in 2020 when CNN told you the George Floyd riots were mostly peaceful?

00:38:33.600 Even as flames rose in the background? It was ridiculous, but it was also a metaphor for the

00:38:39.980 way our leaders run this country. They're constantly telling you, everything is fine. Everything is fine. 0.92

00:38:46.900 Don't worry. Everything's under control. Nothing to see here. Move along and obey. No one believes that.

00:38:54.820 Crime is not going away. Supply chains remain fragile. It does feel like some kind of global

00:38:59.780 conflict could break out at any time. So the question is, if things went south tomorrow,

00:39:05.200 would you be ready? Well, if you're not certain that you'd be ready, you need Ammo Squared.

00:39:11.240 Ammo Squared is the only service that lets you build an ammunition stockpile automatically. You

00:39:15.880 literally set it on autopilot. You pick the calibers you want, how much you want to save every month,

00:39:20.340 then they'll ship it to you, or they'll store it for you and ship it when you say so. You get

00:39:24.360 24-7 access to manage the whole thing. So don't let the people in charge, don't let CNN lull you into

00:39:33.440 a fake sense of safety. Take control of your life, protect your family, be prepared. Go to

00:39:41.520 AmmoSquared.com to learn more.

00:39:43.800 When was the last time AIPAC took a position that deviated from Prime Minister Netanyahu?

00:39:50.040 All the time.

00:39:51.280 Okay. Let me go back and give a little history. If you want to do a deep dive on AIPAC.

00:39:56.640 I don't. I want to do a shallow dive that gets to the core question. AIPAC is lobbying for a

00:40:01.860 foreign government. It's not. It's lobbying for the United States?

00:40:06.160 It is lobbying for a strong US-Israeli relationship.

00:40:09.700 Okay. So it has nothing to do with the foreign government.

00:40:14.080 It wants America and Israel to be closely allied.

00:40:18.220 Okay. But it's lobbying on behalf of the interests of another country.

00:40:23.540 So that's not true at all.

00:40:25.120 It's not true.

00:40:26.060 No.

00:40:26.640 How much contact do you think AIPAC leaders have for the government of Israel?

00:40:30.720 No idea. I imagine some. I think the government of Israel is often frustrated with AIPAC because

00:40:35.460 AIPAC's not nearly strong enough.

00:40:36.840 Do you think there's any coordination between the government of Israel and AIPAC?

00:40:40.160 Do they talk? Sure. If you're lobbying for more US-Mexico trade, would you talk to people in

00:40:46.460 the US and Mexico and the government? Sure. Like if...

00:40:49.180 So I'm not mad about that. There are a million countries that lobby Washington.

00:40:52.880 I like a lot of those countries, including Israel.

00:40:54.480 Okay. But AIPAC or Americans? They're not Israelis. 0.98

00:40:56.160 Hold on. There are tons of Americans who lobby on behalf of foreign governments.

00:40:59.580 I know them. I'm related to some of them. I know how it works. I'm from here.

00:41:02.300 So my question is not, is it outrageous that foreign governments lobby the United States?

00:41:06.680 They all do. Okay. Including Israel. My only question is, why don't we admit that is what's 0.91

00:41:12.200 happening? You're denying it, but it's true. And why aren't they registered as a foreign lobby?

00:41:18.340 Because they're not.

00:41:19.540 They're not a foreign lobby.

00:41:20.760 No, they're not. And there's a fever swamp. Look, it's not a fever swamp. These are very

00:41:25.560 reasonable questions. And you've accused me of being obsessed with Israel, which I'm not.

00:41:28.680 I actually haven't. I've said isolationists are.

00:41:30.680 Which I'm not at all. I'm just, I find it, it's a very tender spot when you ask it. And I don't

00:41:36.540 know why. So Tucker, all right, let's go back. I was first elected to the Senate in 2012. I came

00:41:45.420 in in Obama's second term. And I actually saw AIPAC be badly wounded in a way they never came back

00:41:53.160 from. And the second term is when Obama did the Iran nuclear deal. And the Iran nuclear deal,

00:41:59.460 I think, was catastrophic. And AIPAC went all in lobbying against it.

00:42:03.880 Yeah.

00:42:04.940 And they failed. And I was the leading opponent of the Iran nuclear deal.

00:42:08.480 Oh, I know. They definitely failed. Yes.

00:42:10.540 They failed. And what happened, the Obama White House told every Democrat,

00:42:14.920 when I got here, there used to be real bipartisan support for Israel. That has largely disappeared.

00:42:20.480 And it's the Obama nuclear deal that caused it, because the Obama White House told every Democrat,

00:42:26.120 pick. You either stand with Israel or you're a Democrat and you stand with the Obama White House.

00:42:31.400 And almost every single Democrat member of Congress said, I'm a Democrat first to hell with Israel.

00:42:36.460 And then I watched as AIPAC, every one of those Democrats got reelected and AIPAC did nothing about

00:42:42.240 it. And it dramatically reduced AIPAC's influence.

00:42:45.900 I agree. I watched it happen. And by the way, I told AIPAC, I said, look,

00:42:50.240 the analogy, if the NRA was supporting a bunch of politicians and cared about the Second Amendment,

00:42:55.180 and you had politicians that vote to confiscate people's guns, and the NRA turned around and raised

00:43:00.680 money for the people who voted to confiscate guns, you know what? No one would ever care what

00:43:06.000 they said again.

00:43:06.780 Sue, you're making the case that AIPAC is not as powerful as people say it is. And I completely

00:43:09.980 agree with you. I've watched that. And I'm not I'm not making the case that AIPAC is all

00:43:14.240 powerful and they're running everything and putting fluoride in the water. I'm not making

00:43:17.380 the case at all, because it's not true. I'm only trying to get to the question of what AIPAC

00:43:21.020 is. And I don't think you're being straightforward about it. AIPAC is lobbying on behalf of the

00:43:26.160 interests of a foreign country, and they're not registered. And you're saying, no, that's

00:43:29.220 not true. You're saying that they don't coordinate with the Israeli government.

00:43:32.580 Of course, I coordinate. Do they talk with them? I don't know what they do.

00:43:36.580 I can tell you.

00:43:36.980 But why don't you care? Isn't it meaningful if a foreign government?

00:43:40.720 Hey, I talk with Israel all the time.

00:43:42.520 Of course you do. Of course you do. But the law is and a lot of people have been prosecuted

00:43:46.780 under this law that if you are lobbying on behalf of foreign government, you must register. That's

00:43:50.460 it. It's really simple. And I don't know why if I'm working from Malaysia or Qatar or Belgium

00:43:56.140 and I'm working on behalf of its government's interests through a group of Americans who are

00:44:01.300 representing the friendship between those two nations, I have to register under the Foreign

00:44:05.000 Agent Registration Act. And if I don't, I can go to jail. People have gone to jail,

00:44:08.060 people I know. OK, so I don't understand why we don't just be honest and say they're

00:44:13.540 lobbying on behalf of foreign government. They're coordinating with the government.

00:44:16.220 You know that that's true. That is not only not true, that is false.

00:44:20.220 They're not coordinating with the Israeli government.

00:44:21.940 Do you know how AIPAC raises money?

00:44:25.180 What?

00:44:25.580 For elected officials, like what they do, like what the actual mechanics is.

00:44:29.000 I mean, they go to people who are sympathetic to Israel and raise money and then send it to

00:44:32.300 candidates who agree with them. So what they'll do is so in my last election,

00:44:36.940 AIPAC endorsed me and they'll host a fundraiser and they'll host a fundraiser in Dallas or Houston

00:44:41.720 or Atlanta or New York or L.A. And they'll do a fundraiser and they'll get someone who will host

00:44:46.460 it. And it's usually a business owner, lawyer, doctor, someone who hosts it. And you get typically

00:44:51.800 at an AIPAC fundraiser 30, 40, 50, maybe 100 people who live in that city.

00:44:57.000 Right.

00:44:57.280 Who care about a strong U.S.-Israel relationship. And if they have, you know, 50 people, each of

00:45:02.960 them writes a thousand dollar check and you raise 50,000.

00:45:05.460 Yeah, I've been to an AIPAC fundraiser. I know what it looks like.

00:45:08.780 But that is not. And by the way, there's no representative of the Israeli government there.

00:45:13.880 You have when you're in Dallas, you're meeting with. 0.97

00:45:15.920 This is such a false and silly conversation. I know all this. I know all this. The question is, 0.97

00:45:19.320 is are AIPAC's goals shaped by the goals of the Israeli government to any extent?

00:45:24.100 OK, that's a really simple question.

00:45:25.600 Lobbying on behalf of.

00:45:26.880 It's a simple question. Is AIP, are AIPAC's goals shaped by the goals of the Israeli government?

00:45:32.640 And I'm just going to ask you a question straightforwardly. And if you say no,

00:45:35.880 I think we both know that's not true.

00:45:37.140 Hey, are they shaped by, is that it?

00:45:39.460 Are they coordinating with the Israeli government?

00:45:41.760 Are they talking with them?

00:45:42.860 Yes, Israel directing them. 0.69

00:45:44.980 What are, you want to talk about FARA, the law on lobbying on behalf of someone.

00:45:48.740 Yeah.

00:45:48.900 It is, I hire you and you lobby on behalf of me. I direct you. Does Israel direct AIPAC?

00:45:53.780 No, they're not lobbying on behalf of them. Do they care about them? Yes. But do you think

00:45:59.660 that it's just interesting because what you're now describing in a very defensive way, I will say,

00:46:04.600 is foreign influence over our politics.

00:46:07.560 No.

00:46:07.980 And you began, and it's so transparently obvious to everybody. I don't know why you'd be embarrassed

00:46:12.760 of it. You've said that you are sincerely for Israel. I believe you. I don't think you have

00:46:15.760 some weird agenda. You seem to be sincere.

00:46:18.420 By the way, Tucker, it's a very weird thing.

00:46:22.900 The obsession with Israel. When we're talking about foreign countries. 0.84

00:46:25.960 It's hardly an obsession.

00:46:26.640 You're not talking about Chinese. You're not talking about Japanese. You're not talking about 0.99

00:46:29.640 the Brits. You're not talking about the French. The question, what about the Jews? What about the 0.90

00:46:32.840 Jews? 0.60

00:46:33.320 Oh, I'm an anti-Semite now.

00:46:34.740 Senator, you're asking the questions, Tucker.

00:46:36.580 You just told me.

00:46:37.320 You're asking, why are the Jews controlling our foreign policy? That's what you just asked. 1.00

00:46:41.880 I'm hardly saying that. That is exactly what you just said.

00:46:44.820 Well, actually, I can speak for myself and tell you what I am saying.

00:46:47.320 Good.

00:46:47.980 On behalf, not simply of myself, but of my many Jewish friends who would have the same questions,

00:46:52.540 which is to what extent, and it's interesting you're trying to derail my questions by calling

00:46:56.620 me an anti-Semite, which you are. 0.84

00:46:58.020 I did not.

00:46:58.760 Of course you are. And rather than be honorable enough to say it right to my face,

00:47:03.120 you are in a sleazy, feline way implying it or just asking questions about the Jews. I'm not

00:47:07.880 asking questions about the Jews. I have, there's nothing to do with that. 0.87

00:47:11.880 There's nothing to do with Jews or Judaism. It has to do with a foreign government.

00:47:14.060 Isn't Israel controlling our foreign policy? That's not about the Jews. 0.98

00:47:16.920 You said, I'm asking you. 0.86

00:47:18.160 And by the way, you're the one that just called me, I think, a sleazy feline. So let's be clear.

00:47:22.100 It's sleazy to imply that I'm an anti-Semite, which you just did.

00:47:25.860 No, I just said, why is that the only question you're asking? You answer it. Give me another

00:47:29.420 reason. If you're not an anti-Semite, give me another reason why the obsession is Israel. 0.51

00:47:33.980 I am in no sense obsessed with Israel. We are on the brink of war with Iran. 0.90

00:47:37.500 And so these are valid questions. If I can finish, you asked me why I'm obsessed with

00:47:46.460 Israel. Three minutes after telling me that when you first ran for Congress, you elucidated one of

00:47:51.980 your main goals, which is to defend Israel. And I'm the one who's obsessed with Israel. I don't see 0.94

00:47:57.040 a lawmaker's job as defending the interests of a foreign government, period. Any government,

00:48:01.200 including the ones that my ancestors come from. So that's my position. That does not make me an

00:48:04.360 anti-Semite. And shame on you for suggesting otherwise. And I mean that. And that's low,

00:48:08.960 and you know it's low. So why don't you just answer my questions in a straightforward,

00:48:12.440 rational way? You certainly have the IQ to do it.

00:48:15.080 Shame on you is cute, by the way, Tucker.

00:48:17.180 It is. It's not cute. I'm offended.

00:48:19.540 I'm obsessed with the Jews. You just told me that you ran.

00:48:22.280 You just called me a sleazy feline.

00:48:24.340 It is sleazy to imply that I'm an anti-Semite for asking questions about how my government is

00:48:29.260 wrong.

00:48:29.280 Do you want to count how many questions you asked about? What about the Jews? What about Israel? What about

00:48:32.480 I never asked about the Jews. I have, this has nothing to do with the Jews, whatever that means.

00:48:38.520 This has to do with a foreign government. And once again, shame on you for conflating the two.

00:48:44.360 They have nothing to do with each other. I'm talking about the influence of the foreign- 1.00

00:48:46.900 Israel and Jews have nothing to do with each other.

00:48:48.540 No. All Jews are an attack on all Jews, which I am not, nor would I ever be undertaking now. I'm not 0.79

00:48:55.980 attacking anybody. 0.99

00:48:57.060 By the way, that's who Iran wants to kill, is all the Jews and all the Americans. 0.98

00:49:00.820 And I'm totally opposed to that, okay? But now, because specific decisions need to be made. 0.96

00:49:07.680 We can talk about those decisions.

00:49:08.820 And I plan to.

00:49:09.500 Good.

00:49:10.020 But I just want to get a sense of whether you think, having described yourself as an America

00:49:14.100 first person, whose only criterion for judgment on foreign policy is America's national interest,

00:49:18.960 to what extent you're influenced by a foreign government, which gives you a lot of money

00:49:22.440 through its lobby. And you're claiming this has nothing to do with the foreign government.

00:49:25.300 They're not courted. And yes, they're spying on us, but it doesn't bother you.

00:49:27.540 And I'm sort of wondering, like, what is this? This is one of the weirdest conversations I've

00:49:31.600 ever had.

00:49:32.120 I'll tell you what, and I'll answer any question you like, but let's try to...

00:49:35.140 Are you going to call me an anti-Semite again or no?

00:49:36.820 Let's try to ratchet down the temperature a little.

00:49:39.040 You're the one who went to motive. I'm asking honest questions.

00:49:42.200 I'm...

00:49:42.440 Just asking questions. Yes, that is what I'm doing.

00:49:45.920 Let's try to ratchet down the temperature a little bit.

00:49:47.880 Picture the house of your dreams. Maybe it's got an outdoor pool, a huge front porch,

00:49:53.960 an inviting fireplace for a cold winter's night. No matter what you prefer, there's little doubt

00:49:58.800 that an American flag waving out front enhances the whole thing. What better way

00:50:04.340 to welcome your guests than with a flag outside your home? But wait, there's a problem.

00:50:09.520 The American flags you're likely to buy at some big stores were made in China. An American flag made

00:50:15.300 in China? Come on. Pure Talk, America's wireless company, believes every American deserves an

00:50:21.140 American flag that was made in America. And that's why they're determined to give an allegiance flag,

00:50:26.140 the highest quality American flag, to a thousand veterans in time for summer. Pure Talk is using

00:50:31.920 a portion of this month's sales to honor Flag Day and provide these American flags to American

00:50:37.100 veterans. With plans from just $25 a month for limited talk, text, plenty of data, you can enjoy

00:50:44.020 America's most dependable 5G network while cutting your cell phone bill in half for real. Go to

00:50:49.400 puretalk.com slash Tucker to support veterans and to switch to America's company. Wireless from Pure

00:50:56.520 Talk. And did you ever see an Eddie Murphy movie called The Distinguished Gentleman? No. It's a great

00:51:02.100 movie. It's actually a fun comedy about politics. And Eddie Murphy in the movie is a con man who gets

00:51:08.000 elected to Congress. And he's literally a con man who the congressman dies. He has the same name.

00:51:13.040 And so he runs and they get elected. And there's a scene in the movie where Eddie Murphy is a freshman

00:51:17.400 member of Congress and he's sitting down with a sleazy lobbyist. And he's asking the lobbyist,

00:51:23.480 all right, what should my positions be on? I think they were talking about power plants and

00:51:27.360 electrical transmission lines. And the lobbyist is like, well, what do you believe?

00:51:33.720 And Eddie Murphy's comments said, I don't care. Whatever gets me the most money, I'll do whatever

00:51:37.300 gets me the most money. And the lobbyist says, no, no, pick a side. Doesn't matter what you pick.

00:51:41.580 If you pick one side, we'll go shake down everyone who supports that size and they'll 0.69

00:51:45.860 give you money. If you pick the other side, that's fine. We'll just go to the other side

00:51:48.280 and shake down that. That's a little bit the way it works. And you often get leftists in the media

00:51:54.960 who say, for example, if you support the Second Amendment, as you do and I do, well, you're just

00:51:59.420 bought and paid for by the NRA. And that actually is backwards. I believe in the Second Amendment

00:52:03.560 because I believe in the Constitution. Now, am I proud that the NRA supports me? Sure, because people

00:52:08.040 who care about the Second Amendment want to support leaders who fight for it. But it gets it backward. 0.93

00:52:12.600 Look, AIPAC, when I ran for the Senate, AIPAC didn't support me. I supported Israel before they 0.98

00:52:17.340 supported me. I'm happy to have their support because they share my objective. No, but you're

00:52:22.060 missing it. I'm not suggesting that you're bought and paid for. I'm not saying that. I think your views

00:52:26.180 are sincere. I want to go back and take the transcript because you just said a minute ago,

00:52:30.360 are you, I'm slightly paraphrasing, but are you, are you lobbying for a foreign government

00:52:35.580 because they pay you a lot of money? That's basically what you said. So you are suggesting

00:52:39.000 that. Let me, let me just be clear about what I think. Your views seem totally sincere. Yes.

00:52:43.600 You take money from people who agree with you. Yeah. I believe that. I'm only trying. I take money

00:52:48.820 from people who disagree with me. I'm only trying to get to the question of to what extent is the

00:52:54.580 U.S. government influenced by other governments? And it's a lot. Of course. It's hardly just Israel.

00:52:59.160 It's hardly just Israel. I don't think Israel is the main one. There are lots of governments.

00:53:02.560 China is a massive influence on the city. And it's a huge problem. As you know, 1.00

00:53:05.840 I couldn't agree more. And there are lots of other, the UK, which is a truly sinister place,

00:53:10.440 in my opinion, as an ethnic Brit, I can say, I think it's, that's my view. You, maybe you disagree.

00:53:15.760 I think they're on the wrong path. I love the Brits, but their government has gone off the rails.

00:53:20.120 Without even getting into that. I'm just saying, I don't think Israel is the only one,

00:53:23.000 but it's the only one where you're instantly called an anti-Semite for asking questions.

00:53:26.800 And it's also the only government that no one will ever criticize.

00:53:29.340 People criticize Israel every minute of every day. Like, the only government that people will

00:53:34.540 not criticize? Rashida Tlaib just tweeted out calling Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal.

00:53:41.380 Rashida Tlaib? No, I'm not.

00:53:42.960 You said no one will criticize.

00:53:44.560 I'm talking about Republicans that I would vote for, including you. And I'm saying, you know,

00:53:50.360 whatever. I don't even like talking about Israel. What I care about, I never do, 1.00

00:53:55.040 because it's not worth being called anti-Semites from AIPAC recipients. But now we're on the verge

00:54:01.660 of joining a war. And I just want to be clear about why we're doing this.

00:54:07.780 All right. So, and let's get into Iran momentarily, but you suggested it was a strange thing that I

00:54:15.360 said a minute ago that when I came into the Senate, I resolved that I was going to be the leading

00:54:18.780 defender of Israel. And what you didn't ask is why. So let me tell you why.

00:54:21.640 No, you said I was obsessed with Israel. And you had just told me that, like, your driving

00:54:26.060 motive to get to the Senate was to defend Israel. I'm like, I don't think I'm the one who's obsessed

00:54:30.220 with Israel. I don't even think about Israel.

00:54:32.240 So, Tucker, words matter. And you know that. I said I resolved to be the leading defender of

00:54:39.760 Israel. And you said your driving motive, the reason you're in the Senate.

00:54:42.700 You want to be the leading defender of Israel. I would think if I ran for Senate, I'd be like,

00:54:46.120 there are people dying of drug odies on the street.

00:54:48.280 My driving motive is to fight for Texas and America and to fight for jobs and to fight for

00:54:53.200 the Constitution. And you played a very, very careful word game of a lie to you.

00:54:58.300 You're the one who said it, not me.

00:55:00.220 So you still haven't asked why, but I'm going to tell you why.

00:55:03.780 Okay.

00:55:04.240 And the reason is twofold. Number one, as a Christian, growing up in Sunday school, I was

00:55:10.000 taught from the Bible, those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will 0.99

00:55:15.440 be cursed. And from my perspective, I want to be on the blessing side of things.

00:55:19.400 Of those who bless the government of Israel?

00:55:21.960 Those who bless Israel is what it says. It doesn't say the government of, it says the nation

00:55:24.960 of Israel. So that's in the Bible. As a Christian, I believe that.

00:55:29.180 Where is that?

00:55:30.200 I can find it to you. I don't have the scripture off the tip of mine. You pull out the phone and

00:55:35.240 use the Bible.

00:55:35.700 It's in Genesis. But so you're quoting a Bible phrase. You don't have context for it. You don't

00:55:41.000 know where in the Bible it is, but that's like your theology. I'm confused. What does that even

00:55:45.220 mean?

00:55:45.980 Tucker.

00:55:47.100 I'm a Christian. I want to know what you're talking about.

00:55:50.120 Where does my support for Israel come from? Number one, because biblically we are commanded 0.98

00:55:56.020 to support Israel. But number two.

00:55:57.580 Hold on.

00:55:58.060 No, no, no. Hold on. You're a senator and now you're throwing out theology and I am a Christian. I am

00:56:02.680 allowed to weigh in on this. We are commanded as Christians to support the government of Israel?

00:56:06.860 We are commanded to support Israel.

00:56:08.540 What does that mean, Israel?

00:56:09.880 We're told those who bless Israel will be blessed.

00:56:11.760 But what? Hold on. Define Israel. This is important. Are you kidding? This is a majority 1.00

00:56:15.720 Christian country.

00:56:16.440 Define Israel? Do you not know what Israel is? That would be the country you've asked like 0.99

00:56:20.420 49 questions about.

00:56:21.980 So that's what Genesis, that's what God is talking about.

00:56:25.440 The nation of Israel, yes.

00:56:26.800 So is that the current borders, the current leadership? He's talking about the political

00:56:30.000 entity called Israel?

00:56:31.180 He's talking about the nation of Israel. Yeah, nations exist and he's discussing a nation.

00:56:34.980 A nation was the people of Israel.

00:56:36.480 Is the nation God's referring to in Genesis, is that the same as the country run by Benjamin

00:56:41.580 Netanyahu right now?

00:56:42.400 Yes, yes.

00:56:43.160 It is.

00:56:43.640 And by the way, it's not run by Benjamin Netanyahu as a dictator. It's a democratic country that

00:56:48.080 elected.

00:56:48.500 I'm not saying he's a dictator. He's the prime minister. What?

00:56:51.100 But just like, you know, America is the country run by Donald Trump. No, actually,

00:56:55.060 the American people elected Donald Trump. The same principle is there.

00:56:57.820 This is silly. I'm talking about the political entity of modern Israel.

00:57:00.880 Yes, and that is Israel.

00:57:01.880 I do believe that's what God was talking about in Genesis.

00:57:04.920 I do.

00:57:05.720 But that country's existed since when?

00:57:08.280 For thousands of years. Now, there was a time when it didn't exist and then it was

00:57:11.720 recreated just over 70 years ago.

00:57:13.280 But I'm saying, I think most people understand that line in Genesis to refer to the Jewish

00:57:22.240 people, God's chosen people.

00:57:24.020 That's not what it says.

00:57:24.840 It says, OK, Israel, but you don't even know where in the Bible it is.

00:57:29.780 So I don't know if we can.

00:57:31.180 I don't remember the scriptural citation.

00:57:33.960 But OK, I keep.

00:57:35.340 It's like Genesis 16 or something like that.

00:57:37.380 But yes, it's in the earlier part of the book.

00:57:39.000 But the point is.

00:57:40.140 All right, Tucker, you keep interrupting me before I finish my sentence.

00:57:42.660 No, it's just important to know what you're talking about.

00:57:44.540 I don't know what you're.

00:57:45.540 So you're saying as a Christian, if I believe in Jesus, I have to support the modern state

00:57:50.000 of Israel.

00:57:50.460 I'm not saying that.

00:57:51.140 But I'm explaining for me what my vote motivation is.

00:57:56.140 But OK, so I'm just trying to understand.

00:57:58.360 You said God tells you to support the modern state of Israel in the Bible, in some place

00:58:03.300 in the Bible that you heard about, but you don't know where it is.

00:58:06.140 That's your theology.

00:58:07.380 You're going back.

00:58:08.280 Am I a sleazy feline again?

00:58:09.560 I mean, if you accuse me of anti-Semitism again, I will say that, but I don't think you

00:58:13.660 will.

00:58:14.080 Try to be a little less condescending.

00:58:15.880 I'm trying to have a conversation.

00:58:17.500 You're throwing this stuff out and it's my job to figure out what you're talking about.

00:58:19.960 But I don't understand.

00:58:20.820 But you're not letting me.

00:58:22.680 OK, I'm sorry.

00:58:24.200 I want to be polite.

00:58:27.320 That is, for me, a personal motivation.

00:58:30.000 But I also, what I was about to say, I don't believe my personal faith, not everyone who 1.00

00:58:35.280 I represent as a Christian.

00:58:36.800 It's not an argument for me to give that we should do this because of my faith.

00:58:41.140 And so as an elected official, I don't give that as the reason we should support Israel.

00:58:45.500 That is a personal motivation for me.

00:58:47.340 But but I don't think it is the reason we should.

00:58:50.200 The reason that I am the leading defender of Israel is because Israel is our strongest

00:58:54.280 ally in the Middle East, an incredibly troubled part of the world and supporting Israel benefits 1.00

00:58:59.340 America.

00:59:00.120 And the clearest illustration of that is what is happening right now.

00:59:04.720 Can you?

00:59:04.920 Let me just make this point.

00:59:06.380 And then OK, and then I'll just ask what you mean.

00:59:08.020 That's it.

00:59:08.460 Yeah.

00:59:09.040 Look.

00:59:09.320 Iran, I think the most acute national security threat facing America right now is the threat 1.00

00:59:17.960 of a nuclear Iran.

00:59:18.880 I think China is the biggest long term threat, but acute and near term is a nuclear Iran. 0.99

00:59:24.500 OK.

00:59:25.220 And I think Israel is doing a massive favor to America right now by trying to take out 1.00

00:59:32.520 Iran's nuclear capacity.

00:59:33.860 And the reason I view Iran differently, we talked before about Iraq, I opposed the Iraq 1.00

00:59:38.980 war.

00:59:39.240 We talked about Syria, I opposed military intervention in Syria.

00:59:42.160 The reason for that is those did not pose a threat to the United States.

00:59:45.820 I think Iran is markedly different.

00:59:47.960 Number one, the Ayatollah is a religious zealot. 0.98

00:59:51.640 He is a lunatic, but a particularly dangerous kind of lunatic because he's driven by religious 1.00

00:59:57.920 fervor when he says death to America and death to Israel, I believe him. 1.00

01:00:03.800 And I think Iran is trying to get a nuclear weapon because there is a very real possibility 0.93

01:00:08.800 they would use a nuclear weapon.

01:00:10.780 So you want to ask how does supporting Israel benefit us?

01:00:13.680 Right now, this tiny little country, the size of the state of New Jersey, is fighting our

01:00:19.320 enemies for us and taking out their top military leadership and trying to take out their nuclear 0.94

01:00:24.940 capacity.

01:00:25.440 That makes America much safer.

01:00:28.560 So the president has said repeatedly Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon and he will do whatever 0.99

01:00:34.780 it takes to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon.

01:00:37.360 He said that like a hundred times.

01:00:38.480 He clearly means it.

01:00:39.680 I think he will use force to affect that if he feels he has to.

01:00:42.760 I think he's been really clear about that.

01:00:43.920 I don't know, but it seems that way.

01:00:46.020 Do you feel it?

01:00:46.820 Do you think that's correct?

01:00:48.240 Whether he would use force to stop a nuclear weapon, I think he has put that option on the

01:00:53.020 table.

01:00:53.380 He certainly suggests that.

01:00:53.800 I mean, I have literally no idea what's going to happen.

01:00:55.780 But just reading his statements, he's made that really clear.

01:00:58.920 So what he has been very clear about, and I spoke with the president on Sunday, is he

01:01:03.480 has been very clear to Iran that if they attack U.S. service men and women, there will be real 0.96

01:01:07.740 consequences.

01:01:08.860 And I think very serious military.

01:01:11.180 By the way, this is a sidebar, but I just can't resist.

01:01:13.460 The prime minister of Israel said that Iran tried to assassinate Donald Trump twice.

01:01:17.260 Yeah, I read your newsletter this morning, and-

01:01:20.840 But do you believe that's true?

01:01:22.340 Again, I think it was sort of a word game.

01:01:25.100 What is true is Iran is trying to assassinate Donald J. Trump, and they have hired hit men. 0.90

01:01:29.020 Now, you pointed out-

01:01:30.020 No, he said that they have tried twice to kill him, and I don't know that- I don't have any

01:01:35.740 evidence that's true, but I sort of wonder if that is true.

01:01:37.760 Why aren't we at war with them already?

01:01:38.940 Okay, and I read your newsletter this morning, and I thought it was playing word games to draw a

01:01:46.900 political point.

01:01:47.920 How's that a word game?

01:01:48.920 It's my president, and if-

01:01:50.140 Can I tell you?

01:01:50.740 Yeah, please.

01:01:51.440 Okay.

01:01:52.120 You rightly pointed out there's no evidence that this clown in Butler, Pennsylvania, who 0.93

01:01:57.520 shot the president, was working for the Iranians. 0.89

01:01:59.340 I don't think he was.

01:02:00.100 There's no evidence of that, although I would like to know more about who he was and what's

01:02:04.380 going on, but I don't find it plausible that he was working for the Iranians.

01:02:07.900 So, was that caused by the Iranians? 0.98

01:02:11.560 No.

01:02:12.480 But what is true, and what your newsletter didn't acknowledge, is it true or false that

01:02:16.180 Iran is currently trying to murder Donald J. Trump and has paid hit men to do so? 0.82

01:02:20.600 Well, that's the question, and I don't know the Butler, Pennsylvania thing.

01:02:24.540 Butler, Pennsylvania wasn't-

01:02:25.260 Let's just put that aside.

01:02:26.540 I don't know.

01:02:27.180 So Netanyahu misspoke Polk when he said those two assassinations were because of Iran, but

01:02:31.660 what he was saying that is right is they're actively trying to murder Donald J. Trump.

01:02:35.880 Is there-

01:02:36.720 Okay, so you're aware of a plot to kill Trump?

01:02:39.840 Yes.

01:02:40.380 That Iran is paying for, and by the way- 0.98

01:02:42.100 Wait, when?

01:02:43.160 It has been over the last, I'd say, 18 months to two years.

01:02:47.000 In the United States?

01:02:47.780 In the United States, yes.

01:02:49.520 And let me point out-

01:02:50.680 Has anyone been arrested?

01:02:51.520 For the Trump attempted assassination, no, but they are also actively paying Iranian hit 0.92

01:02:59.600 men to murder Mike Pompeo when he was President Trump's first Secretary of State, the first

01:03:03.760 term, rather.

01:03:05.040 John Bolton, when John Bolton was National Security Advisor to President Trump, and a guy

01:03:09.600 named Brian Hook, who was Assistant Secretary of State, during the Biden administration-

01:03:13.700 Wait, but hold on.

01:03:13.900 Can we go back to Donald Trump because he's the president?

01:03:15.540 No, no, no.

01:03:16.060 It's a big deal.

01:03:17.020 What do you mean?

01:03:18.260 When-

01:03:18.980 No one has been arrested for these assassination attempts on Trump.

01:03:21.680 Uh, yes.

01:03:23.840 They've hired hit men.

01:03:24.680 How do we know that?

01:03:26.320 Uh, all right, let me break it down.

01:03:29.040 People have been arrested.

01:03:29.980 So, the reason I brought up Pompeo, Bolton, and Hook, who are under active assassination

01:03:35.820 attempts because of their service of the first Trump administration, under the Biden-

01:03:40.480 Well, they say that.

01:03:41.200 I've never seen any evidence of it.

01:03:42.640 Can I give you the evidence?

01:03:43.880 Well, let's just stick with Trump.

01:03:45.020 No, no, no, because these are interrelated.

01:03:47.840 So, let me make a bloody point.

01:03:49.120 Under the Biden administration, the State Department was spending $2 million a month

01:03:54.800 providing security for Pompeo, Bolton, and Hook.

01:03:58.520 And they did arrest Iranian hitmen at John Bolton's apartment complex, who rented, I think,

01:04:04.900 the apartment next to him, and were actively trying to assassinate him, and they went and

01:04:08.840 arrested them.

01:04:09.720 So, yes, they caught Iranian hitmen.

01:04:11.860 Now, it so happens Iran's not very good at it.

01:04:15.160 And so, they, but they are actively trying.

01:04:17.960 But what about Trump?

01:04:19.520 He's the president.

01:04:20.520 If there's a plot to kill Trump by the Iranians-

01:04:23.340 Okay, so you dispute that the Iranians are trying to kill Trump?

01:04:27.500 Of course.

01:04:28.500 I mean, that's the most important question.

01:04:29.980 The prime minister of Israel just said there have been two assassination attempts against

01:04:34.340 Donald Trump by the Iranians.

01:04:36.400 And I think it's a very fair question, maybe you disagree, to ask, what are you talking about?

01:04:41.320 Okay.

01:04:41.780 And I agree with you that he misspoke.

01:04:44.740 So, there weren't those two attempts?

01:04:46.140 There were two attempts, but the clown in Butler, Pennsylvania, and the other guy on

01:04:50.240 the golf course were not connected to the Iranians.

01:04:52.960 That's the part that he misspoke.

01:04:55.580 But by the way, when you speak all the time, occasionally, what he said that was accurate 0.80

01:05:00.100 is that Iran is actively trying to murder Donald J. Trump in his paid hitmen. 0.59

01:05:04.100 Okay, but, right. 0.87

01:05:05.460 Okay, that's fine.

01:05:06.200 And he was conflating it with the two attempts.

01:05:08.640 I understand.

01:05:08.960 I understand.

01:05:09.680 But I just want to pull that thread because it's so important.

01:05:12.140 I voted for Donald Trump.

01:05:13.080 I campaigned for Donald Trump.

01:05:14.300 He's our president.

01:05:15.500 And we're on the cusp of a war.

01:05:16.880 So, if Iran, if there's evidence that Iran paid hitmen to kill Donald Trump and is currently

01:05:21.180 doing that, where is that?

01:05:23.560 What are you even talking?

01:05:24.600 I've never heard that before.

01:05:25.920 Okay.

01:05:26.540 Where is the evidence?

01:05:27.400 Who are these people?

01:05:28.140 Why haven't they been arrested?

01:05:29.180 Why are we not at war with Iran? 1.00

01:05:30.520 That's a great question to ask.

01:05:32.460 How do you know that that's true?

01:05:35.020 We know that it's true because we have been told that by the military and our intelligence

01:05:40.800 community for the last two years.

01:05:43.720 We meaning who?

01:05:45.000 Congress has and the public.

01:05:46.280 I mean, they've had multiple testimonies.

01:05:47.720 I can send you testimony.

01:05:49.580 Do we know the names of the people or where this happened or what they tried to do to kill

01:05:53.000 Trump?

01:05:53.940 We do not.

01:05:54.860 We have not apprehended an Iranian hitman trying to kill him.

01:05:58.440 We know that Iran is trying to do so. 0.52

01:06:00.460 In the United States.

01:06:02.580 Yes.

01:06:03.100 And by the way, like Iran.

01:06:04.720 This just seems like a huge headline and you're acting like everyone knows this.

01:06:07.740 I didn't know that.

01:06:08.780 Iran put out a whole video about murdering Trump.

01:06:13.140 Right.

01:06:13.680 But I've never heard evidence that there are hitmen in the United States.

01:06:17.460 I mean, trying to kill Trump right now, we should like have a nationwide dragnet on this

01:06:22.280 and we should attack Iran immediately if that's true. 0.81

01:06:25.100 Don't you think?

01:06:26.200 No.

01:06:27.680 If they're trying to assassinate our president?

01:06:29.260 They have been for two years.

01:06:30.960 They are our enemies.

01:06:31.820 Then why aren't we in war with them? 0.98

01:06:33.200 Well, we are trying to take out. 0.99

01:06:34.580 Why don't we just nuke Tehran if they're trying to murder our president? 1.00

01:06:37.340 There's nothing that you could do that would be worse for the United States than murdering 0.99

01:06:40.720 Trump. 0.56

01:06:41.660 And I just don't understand why you're not calling for the use of nuclear weapons against

01:06:44.980 the Ayatollah right now.

01:06:45.800 I'm serious.

01:06:46.400 If you really believe there's going to murder.

01:06:47.800 The use of nuclear weapons.

01:06:48.880 See, whatever it takes.

01:06:49.980 That's part of the problem of.

01:06:50.940 What do you mean?

01:06:51.600 You don't seem to take the allegations seriously.

01:06:53.480 I do.

01:06:54.000 If you believe they're trying to murder Trump, we need to stop what we're doing and punish them.

01:06:58.460 Can I ask something?

01:06:59.980 And I mean this sincerely.

01:07:01.780 So, all right.

01:07:03.680 20 years ago, you were, I think it's fair to say, in the interventionist world.

01:07:11.500 You were a vocal defender of the Iraq war.

01:07:14.720 I was a promoter of the Iraq war.

01:07:17.220 And you now, and I, look, I think you think you were mistaken.

01:07:23.180 I think you were mistaken.

01:07:23.920 That's OK.

01:07:24.300 Look, people change and learn.

01:07:25.320 And that's part of the journey of being human.

01:07:26.980 And your views have moved, though.

01:07:29.940 In my view, they've gone way too far the other end.

01:07:33.920 And so I'm totally confused.

01:07:35.480 I'm saying, hold on.

01:07:37.560 This is one of the weirdest conversations I've ever had.

01:07:39.600 I'm saying, if it's true that Iran is trying to murder Trump, we need to move militarily 0.51

01:07:43.280 against Iran immediately. 0.64

01:07:44.620 That's not isolationism.

01:07:46.180 That's the most, that's a cult of violence, which I am calling for. 0.98

01:07:49.860 If we believe that Iran is trying to murder our president, we need to strike Iran. 0.99

01:07:53.480 OK, but isolationists say things like, well, then just nuke them, which is what you just 0.90

01:07:56.720 said, which is kind of a weird.

01:07:57.900 Because I'm upset because I'm taking you seriously.

01:08:00.800 You don't take your own statements seriously.

01:08:02.880 I take my statements very seriously.

01:08:04.180 So I've asked you, where's the evidence this is true?

01:08:06.140 And you've said, well, they're trying to assassinate Brian Hook or something, which I'm against,

01:08:09.780 by the way.

01:08:10.300 I'm against hurting any American, period, no matter.

01:08:12.740 So you dispute that they're trying to murder.

01:08:14.420 I'm not disputing it at all.

01:08:15.340 I'm not disputing it at all.

01:08:16.400 I mean, they literally arrested the hitman with Bolton.

01:08:18.020 I'm not, I don't know why that's even relevant.

01:08:20.280 I'm asking about the president of the United States.

01:08:21.900 Wait, it's not relevant that Iran hired hitmen to murder cabinet members in Trump's administration.

01:08:27.100 That doesn't go to how credible is it that they're willing to spend money to do that.

01:08:31.260 I'm totally opposed to that.

01:08:33.000 It's awful.

01:08:34.760 I am against killing anybody, actually. 0.73

01:08:37.320 And especially foreign government.

01:08:38.500 I'm asking about your allegation and the prime minister of Israel's allegation that Iran is

01:08:45.800 trying to murder the president. 0.99

01:08:47.560 Killing terrorists is a good thing. 1.00

01:08:49.320 Killing people who are trying to murder Americans is a good thing. 1.00

01:08:51.740 Because if you're America first, you want to protect America. 0.99

01:08:56.060 And so taking out, killing Osama bin Laden was a fantastic day for the world. 0.96

01:09:00.420 But you don't really believe that they're trying to murder Trump.

01:09:01.720 Yes, I do.

01:09:02.580 Yes, I do.

01:09:02.940 Then why aren't you calling for military action against Tehran right now?

01:09:05.540 Because they're not very effective.

01:09:06.640 In terms of hitmen, their hitmen are not very effective.

01:09:09.140 I do think...

01:09:09.720 Oh, so they're hitmen, but not the bad kind, the efficient kind?

01:09:12.360 No, they're just...

01:09:12.660 What are you saying?

01:09:13.540 They're a weak country who is on its knees, and I think we need to...

01:09:16.820 Then why are we so afraid of them?

01:09:17.880 Why are they the biggest threat if they're a weak country that's on its knees?

01:09:20.160 Because they're trying...

01:09:21.080 I'm trying to keep track.

01:09:21.840 They're trying to develop...

01:09:23.420 Be a little less snarky.

01:09:27.100 I know, you're right.

01:09:27.900 That is a problem that I have.

01:09:28.960 I'm sorry.

01:09:30.060 They're trying to develop nuclear weapons.

01:09:32.340 They are close to developing nuclear weapons.

01:09:34.400 And even a weak country with a nuclear weapon.

01:09:37.440 Look, I believe there is a very real possibility if the Ayatollah develops a nuclear weapon that he would detonate it either in Tel Aviv or New York or Los Angeles. 0.86

01:09:47.760 And that would be utterly catastrophic.

01:09:51.080 And I don't know what the chances are of that.

01:09:53.740 Let me compare and contrast Iran to North Korea. 0.78

01:09:57.260 Wait, can I just ask one last question about trying to kill the president?

01:10:00.000 President, you sincerely believe, you promise, that right now the Iranian government is trying to murder our president. 1.00

01:10:07.140 Yes, yes.

01:10:07.220 You sincerely believe right now.

01:10:08.120 Absolutely.

01:10:08.740 And yet you are not calling for military action against the government that's trying to murder our president.

01:10:12.880 Can you explain that?

01:10:13.680 I don't think they're very effective.

01:10:19.900 I do think we should.

01:10:21.020 By the way, America is.

01:10:22.780 You're willing to take that risk.

01:10:26.740 I think we should protect the president and we should take out our enemies.

01:10:31.060 Well, Israel is doing that right now. 0.79

01:10:33.100 But aren't they?

01:10:33.900 Why would we?

01:10:34.360 And by the way, your first question was, why are we for regime change?

01:10:38.260 That's a pretty good example of why I'm for regime change.

01:10:41.080 OK, so you're saying we should just go in and take out the government of Iran.

01:10:43.660 Why would we outsource it to Israel if they're trying to murder our president? 0.99

01:10:46.400 OK, you sound like the isolationist.

01:10:48.620 What I'm saying on any military judgment is there needs to be a cost benefit analysis of what are the risks versus what are the benefits.

01:10:57.140 In this instance, I think it is enormously in America's interest to do what Israel is doing right now. 0.90

01:11:03.200 Take out Iran's senior military leadership and take out their nuclear capacity. 0.84

01:11:07.180 That is benefiting America.

01:11:09.340 And it is a good risk reward.

01:11:11.760 I would oppose invading Iran and putting boots on the ground to topple the government.

01:11:18.060 If the risk got severe enough, I would support that.

01:11:22.380 But I think the relative risk is not severe enough to justify that step at this time.

01:11:27.740 What I would absolutely oppose under any circumstances is invading Iran and then staying and trying to turn them into a democracy. 0.98

01:11:36.320 And part of where Iraq really went off off the rails is not only did we topple someone who was fighting radical Islamic terrorists, who's a bad guy, but then we tried the vision of interventionists.

01:11:48.000 It actually overlaps with the vision of a lot of Democrats.

01:11:50.480 Let's go promote democracy in the world.

01:11:52.580 I agree.

01:11:53.080 And it is our military's job to kill the bad guys, to defend America.

01:11:57.760 It's not their job to defend international norms.

01:12:00.680 It's not their job.

01:12:01.520 So I have zero desire for the U.S. military to turn Iran into Switzerland.

01:12:06.800 Look, would it be nice if they suddenly became Switzerland?

01:12:09.220 Sure.

01:12:09.460 If I could wave a magic wand, great.

01:12:11.560 But I'm not going to send your kids or my kids to be in front of guns to go make that happen.

01:12:16.460 Well, bless you for that.

01:12:17.380 I think that is the lesson that I learned from Iraq.

01:12:20.700 I promoted that war, apparently unlike you. 1.00

01:12:23.820 I was dumber. 0.62

01:12:25.240 And I think you just articulated the main lesson of it, which is it's hard to do that and we're not good at it. 0.96

01:12:30.800 And so we are agreeing on that.

01:12:34.320 I will say as a corollary, that doesn't mean that horrible, evil dictators are OK.

01:12:43.840 And going back to Reagan in the Cold War, we have lots of weapons.

01:12:46.980 I am happy to highlight the brutality, the oppression, the human rights abuses of regimes, even though I don't want to invade them, because I think the bully pulpit of American leadership is really powerful.

01:13:00.020 And I think dictatorships are terrified.

01:13:04.980 So I've spent 13 years in the Senate.

01:13:07.580 One of the things I do frequently is highlight dissidents in Iran and North Korea and China.

01:13:13.780 In Venezuela, people are being tortured.

01:13:16.100 Miriam Ibrahim in Sudan, who was sentenced to 100 lashes and then to be killed for the crime of being a Christian.

01:13:28.060 And I repeatedly went to the Senate floor and shined a light on the government of Sudan.

01:13:32.300 It was corrupt. 0.94

01:13:33.200 It was evil. 0.99

01:13:33.740 I practically begged Barack Obama, say her name.

01:13:38.140 Ultimately, I felt that way with the J6 prisoners. 0.99

01:13:40.880 Look, yes.

01:13:43.740 Look, there is power to speaking out.

01:13:46.920 And ultimately, the international Obama never did say her name.

01:13:50.440 He would not say her name.

01:13:52.540 Ultimately, there was enough international condemnation.

01:13:55.400 The government of Sudan let her go.

01:13:56.920 And so she was not executed.

01:13:59.360 And I actually, I met her.

01:14:02.120 So she had a two-year-old son, Martin, and she gave birth to a little girl named Maya.

01:14:07.240 And she was in leg irons in prison waiting for the death sentence.

01:14:09.880 They were not going to kill her until she gave birth.

01:14:12.540 And they told her, we will not kill you if you will renounce Jesus.

01:14:17.720 And she refused.

01:14:19.220 And I met her.

01:14:20.380 She was in D.C. speaking at a conference after she was released, obviously.

01:14:23.500 And she's a tiny woman, a small woman. 0.88

01:14:28.040 I asked her, I said, when you were in that prison cell with your kids,

01:14:33.360 how did you have the strength not to just give in to despair?

01:14:37.800 I mean, that, you know, I've never been threatened with murder unless I renounce my faith.

01:14:43.480 And she just said to me with a real peacefulness, she said, Jesus was with me.

01:14:48.420 And I mean, thankfully, you and I have not faced that circumstance.

01:14:55.940 But I do think there is a responsibility.

01:14:59.020 There's still time.

01:14:59.960 There is.

01:15:00.720 And I hope we don't.

01:15:03.300 And actually, I'll use another example.

01:15:05.660 John McCain, who you and I disagreed with on a lot of issues.

01:15:08.600 I respected and admired him for his service and time as a prisoner of war.

01:15:13.780 I think his policies I disagreed with vehemently and fought against them.

01:15:18.100 But the man fought for America and he was thrown in prison and he was tortured by Vietnam.

01:15:25.900 And he was given the opportunity to be released early.

01:15:33.700 And he turned it down because he thought it would be dishonorable to lead before his fellow servicemen and women.

01:15:41.080 And when I first got here.

01:15:42.660 There were no women there, but yeah. 1.00

01:15:43.780 Okay, man, you're right in that.

01:15:44.900 When I first got here, McCain hated my guts and he actually referred to me and Rand as Wacko Birds.

01:15:55.420 I remember.

01:15:56.600 I have up on the shelf, I have a baseball cap that a grassroots supporter gave me with a picture of Daffy Duck and labeled Wacko Birds, which I liked and laughed when.

01:16:05.280 But when he did that, I went to the Senate floor and I gave a speech praising John McCain.

01:16:12.140 And it was the day he had like attacked me publicly.

01:16:14.900 And it happened to be it was the 40th anniversary of his release from the Hanoi Hilton.

01:16:20.080 And I was consciously I just talked about what a privilege it is to serve with someone who suffered for his country, who served.

01:16:27.420 And I didn't get into where we disagreed on policy on that speech.

01:16:31.540 I just said, you know, the man is an American hero and I'm proud to serve with him.

01:16:35.580 But that was meant to be a statement also that if you attack me, I'm going to praise you not for things that are not praiseworthy.

01:16:40.860 If I disagree with you, I will not be shy about saying it.

01:16:44.360 But for things that are praiseworthy.

01:16:46.240 I remember that.

01:16:46.980 It was 2013.

01:16:47.980 Yeah.

01:16:49.340 And I felt the same way.

01:16:50.400 I went to his cell at the Hanoi Hilton and I.

01:16:52.460 Oh, wow.

01:16:53.060 I agree with you about McCain.

01:16:55.060 I just want to end by asking you specifically about what's going to happen next in Iran and what should happen next.

01:17:01.300 So you've called for regime change.

01:17:02.680 You said you don't favor the U.S. military participating in any kind of regime change.

01:17:07.580 You said you don't think and bless you for saying this, that the U.S. military should try and turn it into Belgium.

01:17:12.660 Yeah.

01:17:13.060 Thank God.

01:17:13.460 But there is a third option where it turns into Syria, where it's this open wound and it causes massive migration and further destroys Europe, as Syria has. 0.99

01:17:23.860 Yeah.

01:17:25.580 And that's a huge cost.

01:17:26.820 And where lots of people die and religious minorities get murdered in Syria again. 0.79

01:17:30.960 Are you worried about that?

01:17:32.920 Sure.

01:17:33.320 And listen, that lots of bad things can happen.

01:17:36.580 But going back to what we talked about, the principle of defending America, I agree with President Trump that Iran with a nuclear weapon is an unacceptable risk to America and we need to stop it. 1.00

01:17:53.020 I agree with President Trump and I'll make a point.

01:17:57.460 But he's not for regime change.

01:17:59.120 He's not.

01:17:59.820 So he and I disagree.

01:18:00.900 Look, I think he thinks it would be better.

01:18:02.700 He has not set east for it.

01:18:04.700 And you know what?

01:18:05.540 Look, it is consequential when the president of the United States says, I'm for regime change.

01:18:10.380 So I understand why he hasn't.

01:18:12.160 What he has said is he's drawn a red line and said, Iran will not have a nuclear weapon.

01:18:17.260 And the only acceptable outcome is complete dismantlement.

01:18:20.640 So they have centrifuges.

01:18:21.720 They're enriching uranium right now.

01:18:23.300 They're trying to develop a nuclear weapon.

01:18:25.240 He said they must have complete dismantlement.

01:18:27.840 And I led 52 senators, Republican senators, in a letter where we said, we agree with President Trump.

01:18:33.160 That's the red line, complete dismantlement.

01:18:36.240 I agree with President Trump.

01:18:37.580 I agree with him supporting Israel, taking out Iran's military leadership, taking out their nuclear capability. 0.88

01:18:43.080 And I'll point out, look, if you look the first term, I am hard pressed to think of a single foreign policy decision Donald Trump made the first term that I disagree with.

01:18:54.280 And that's not entirely accidental because I spent a lot of time the first term in the Oval Office with him.

01:18:59.840 And what happened in the first term often is you would have in the administration, you had interventionists in the administration, you had isolationists, and they disagreed.

01:19:07.860 They would fight within the administration.

01:19:10.220 And often what it would give is an opportunity for me to come in and say, hey, there's a middle path here that President Trump agreed with frequently.

01:19:19.560 And it's worth noting in the first term, he most assuredly was not an isolationist.

01:19:24.980 Look, he took out General Soleimani, which I emphatically agree with.

01:19:29.240 And in fact, I introduced a resolution that we voted on the Senate floor commending him for taking out General Soleimani, who was the leader of the IRGC and who was responsible for killing over 600 American servicemen and women.

01:19:41.760 When Trump came in, ISIS had a caliphate that had grown up under Obama that was about the size of the state of Indiana.

01:19:50.980 And Trump came in and utterly decimated them. 0.81

01:19:53.260 He killed the terrorists, took away their caliphate and defeated them. 0.77

01:19:56.880 And he also took out Baghdadi, the head of ISIS.

01:20:00.200 I mean, those are not the actions of an isolationist.

01:20:03.060 But at the same time, I don't know what isolation is.

01:20:04.820 It's just a slur designed to control.

01:20:07.120 I mean, I've never been an isolationist.

01:20:08.700 I don't even know what that means.

01:20:09.300 OK, Rand Paul is my colleague.

01:20:10.700 Rand is an isolationist.

01:20:11.580 And Tucker, you've become one.

01:20:13.120 And I don't mean it as a slur.

01:20:14.960 You consistently say you have said.

01:20:18.620 Actually, I want to I want to read from your newsletter, because if you ask what an isolationist is, your newsletter a couple of days ago.

01:20:28.740 You wrote.

01:20:33.220 Iran cannot have a nuclear bomb, and we're hoping to get back to the negotiating table.

01:20:37.500 We will see.

01:20:38.060 There are several people in leadership in Iran that will not be coming back.

01:20:41.000 Trump said following the strikes.

01:20:42.460 Right.

01:20:42.740 It's worth taking a step back and wondering how any of this helps the United States.

01:20:49.600 We can't think of a single way.

01:20:52.740 OK, that to me is the essence of isolationism.

01:20:57.240 And let me just ask you, when the Ayatollah chants death to America, I believe him. 1.00

01:21:02.840 Do you not believe him?

01:21:04.420 Do you think he doesn't mean it when he says death to America?

01:21:06.420 Well, I think he hates America, for sure.

01:21:08.380 And I'm opposed to that.

01:21:09.740 And do you think he's willing to act on it?

01:21:11.320 It's not just hate America.

01:21:12.540 He also is leading a country in trying to develop a nuclear weapon.

01:21:14.880 I think under certain circumstances, for sure.

01:21:16.740 So the question is, do you act in a way that makes that more or less likely?

01:21:22.640 And that's a tough call.

01:21:24.740 It's something that you can debate.

01:21:26.240 One of the ways you shut down debate is by calling people names like isolationists, pretending they're like pro-Nazi or something, or as you did, claiming I'm an anti-Semite.

01:21:34.860 That's not a way to get to a solution or have a rational conversation.

01:21:38.240 That's a way to make people be quiet.

01:21:40.300 And I'm against that.

01:21:41.580 OK, so if you don't like the label isolationist, how would you?

01:21:44.700 Look, Rand, and I serve with Rand.

01:21:46.460 Rand is a friend of mine.

01:21:47.280 But Rand opposes every military action in every circumstance.

01:21:50.260 Of course you don't oppose every military.

01:21:51.360 This whole thing is infantile, and you know that it is.

01:21:53.460 It's a way to call people names and make them be quiet.

01:21:59.460 Give me another name.

01:22:00.280 If you don't like that, I'm not trying to have you be quiet.

01:22:02.480 We've been talking an hour and a half.

01:22:03.700 I'm asking, if you don't like the name isolationist, how would you describe it?

01:22:08.140 I would describe myself in the same way you falsely described yourself in this conversation.

01:22:12.300 Falsely?

01:22:12.720 Yes, falsely.

01:22:13.180 What did I say false?

01:22:14.140 You said that the only thing that matters in a foreign policy decision is whether it helps the United States.

01:22:20.440 I didn't say the only.

01:22:21.260 I said the predominant.

01:22:22.060 That's what I understood.

01:22:23.340 OK.

01:22:23.500 So let me revise what you said and apply it to myself and say the only thing that matters is whether or not it serves the United States.

01:22:29.760 And I feel very stung by what happened in Iraq, if I'm being honest.

01:22:33.960 Possibly because, unlike you, I guess, I supported it.

01:22:36.620 And I saw us get drawn into it in a way that nobody anticipated.

01:22:41.180 And I saw the cost just a month.

01:22:43.360 Three trillion dollars?

01:22:45.380 And the cost on so many levels to the United States was just so profound.

01:22:48.580 And I felt like, gosh, it reminds me of Kaiser Wilhelm in 1914 saying, my men will be back by the time the leaves turn.

01:22:57.940 And, of course, that destroyed Christian Europe. 0.94

01:23:01.000 So it's like you don't really know where these things are going once the shooting starts.

01:23:03.900 That's my only point.

01:23:05.100 And calling people names, anti-Semite, isolationists, to get them to stop talking is not the way to serve your country.

01:23:12.060 That's all I'm saying.

01:23:12.680 So I'm trying to have a real and serious conversation.

01:23:16.060 And look, a lot of this has been contentious.

01:23:19.000 I wish it had not, because as we started out by saying, you and I agree vehemently on 80 percent of the issues.

01:23:24.860 This discussion is focused on the 20 percent where we don't.

01:23:30.820 You know, I will say, look, on Iraq, you look at the 2016 presidential campaign where you had 17 Republicans running.

01:23:37.660 If you set Rand aside and his views are on one side, there were only two candidates on that stage that opposed the Iraq war.

01:23:46.520 Me and Donald Trump were the only two.

01:23:48.120 Everyone else thought the Iraq war was a great thing. 0.97

01:23:51.000 I think it was a disaster.

01:23:52.020 So you and I agree on that as well.

01:23:54.860 In my view, you went, I think your foreign policy has gone too far.

01:23:59.180 So, I mean, let me ask you, is there a military action Trump has undertaken that you agree with?

01:24:04.100 Because I've not heard anything.

01:24:05.980 A military, look, I would say it's really simple.

01:24:09.100 I believe in self-defense.

01:24:10.940 That's why I keep firearms at home.

01:24:13.160 I think it's morally justified to defend yourself, your family, your property, your nation.

01:24:19.860 And so to the extent that you can deter a threat through violence, violence always being the least appealing choice, violence always being, if I can finish, always being a tragedy, I think you can justify the use of violence in self-defense.

01:24:33.940 That is my personal view, and that applies to me and to the country that I live in.

01:24:37.940 Those are my views.

01:24:38.980 That's not an isolationist view.

01:24:40.300 It's not an anti-Israel view.

01:24:41.400 It's not an anti-Semitic view with apologies.

01:24:43.380 It is, I think, a pretty common sense view.

01:24:45.800 But my problem is that lawmakers in Washington are light on detail with these things, and they speak, as you do, entirely in moral terms.

01:24:53.580 These people are bad.

01:24:54.600 These people are— 0.52

01:24:55.260 I'm not speaking entirely in moral terms.

01:24:56.820 I'm not interested in killing bad guys. 0.99

01:24:58.300 I'm interested in killing people who are trying to kill us. 0.99

01:25:00.620 If we had— 1.00

01:25:01.240 That's different.

01:25:01.820 I'm not engaged in morality.

01:25:02.900 Are you now?

01:25:03.940 Because you told me that the government of Iran is presently trying to assassinate Donald Trump.

01:25:09.940 And that is undisputed.

01:25:11.900 There's literally nobody who disputes that fact.

01:25:14.200 Then why don't you support military action right now against Iran? 0.97

01:25:18.520 We are engaged in military action right now.

01:25:20.140 Then why don't you—why don't you support offensive military action? 0.98

01:25:26.280 We're bombing the crap out of them. 0.97

01:25:27.560 Israel is, and we're supporting them. 0.99

01:25:28.940 Israel is. 0.81

01:25:29.480 Okay.

01:25:29.840 So—

01:25:30.160 Why shouldn't the U.S. military defend its own president?

01:25:33.040 I don't understand that.

01:25:34.740 Look, and it goes back to—

01:25:37.380 Because you don't really believe it's true.

01:25:38.620 That's why—

01:25:39.040 Everyone—

01:25:39.740 Okay, nobody disputes it, Tucker.

01:25:42.000 I'm disputing it.

01:25:42.980 Did we land on the moon?

01:25:43.900 What other conspiracies do you not believe?

01:25:45.640 Was 9-11 an inside job?

01:25:46.840 I mean, like, what—

01:25:47.840 So where—

01:25:48.840 I've asked you the names of these people.

01:25:50.460 I've asked you how you know the information.

01:25:50.940 I don't know the names of the Iranian hitmen.

01:25:52.560 I know it because the U.S. military and the intelligence agencies have testified before

01:25:56.800 Congress repeatedly—

01:25:57.660 And what did they say? 0.89

01:25:58.500 Iran is trying to murder Donald Trump and has hired hitmen. 0.98

01:26:02.580 Do I know the name of the hitmen? 0.56

01:26:03.780 No, I'm sorry.

01:26:04.560 And I don't think we do either because we would apprehend them if we knew their names. 0.95

01:26:07.500 Then why don't you take it seriously enough to support killing the Ayatollah in response 0.52

01:26:12.580 to protect our president? 0.82

01:26:14.140 But you don't.

01:26:14.960 This doesn't even make any sense.

01:26:17.000 And you're calling me an isolationist.

01:26:18.840 If I believed that that was true, I would support military action against the government

01:26:24.060 of Iran.

01:26:24.700 OK, that's interesting because there is literally—

01:26:27.940 You can't kill our president.

01:26:28.700 All right.

01:26:28.920 Out of 535 members of Congress, I am not aware of one who disputes that Iran is trying 0.95

01:26:37.020 to murder Donald J. Trump.

01:26:38.120 That's not—even the looniest Democrat doesn't dispute that.

01:26:40.860 So I don't—you're saying if you believed what is, I think, a fact that they are trying

01:26:48.080 to—

01:26:48.160 You think it's a fact?

01:26:49.000 Yes.

01:26:49.100 What is the fact exactly?

01:26:50.280 That they've hired hitmen?

01:26:51.680 In the United States.

01:26:52.460 Yes.

01:26:52.660 Americans?

01:26:53.240 Yeah, he's not in Iran.

01:26:54.360 So they haven't hired hitmen in Iran.

01:26:55.220 No, but are they hitmen American?

01:26:56.940 I don't know.

01:26:58.060 Oh, OK.

01:26:59.000 I'm telling you what—and by the way, I'm not the CIA.

01:27:02.460 I'm not the Department of Defense.

01:27:03.880 I'm telling you what they have told us.

01:27:05.400 I'm not disputing it.

01:27:06.340 I'm merely saying—

01:27:07.200 We are.

01:27:07.940 I'm not.

01:27:08.700 I'm saying the logic train has a massive hole in it. 0.97

01:27:10.920 If you believe that's true, then you should, by definition, support killing the people 1.00

01:27:16.420 trying to kill our president. 0.99

01:27:17.400 But you don't support that. 0.69

01:27:18.260 Now, Tucker—

01:27:18.640 So I'm wondering what's going on here.

01:27:19.900 Tucker, you took offense to the word isolationist.

01:27:22.160 And I genuinely don't mean it as a pejorative.

01:27:24.160 I disagree with it.

01:27:25.960 But if you don't like that term, I don't know how else to describe what is a coherent

01:27:30.620 foreign policy that says we're surrounded by two giant nations.

01:27:34.680 By the way, isolationism has long been a school of foreign policy.

01:27:38.080 I believe in self-defense.

01:27:39.020 I'm not into the slurs, the anti-Semite stuff.

01:27:42.260 I just don't like that.

01:27:43.460 I'm telling you what I believe.

01:27:44.980 But is there a single military action Trump took that you agree with?

01:27:48.080 So do you agree with taking out General Soleimani?

01:27:51.340 Oh, I don't know.

01:27:52.300 It turned out better than I thought.

01:27:53.660 I mean, you said at the time it would, like, lead us to World War III.

01:27:56.520 I thought—I was worried about it.

01:27:57.820 I've seen that happen.

01:27:58.900 Well, but that proved not the case.

01:28:00.620 I was wrong, as I have been many times.

01:28:03.220 Did you agree with taking out the ISIS caliphate?

01:28:05.440 But my—well, if we took out the ISIS caliphate, why are they running Syria right now?

01:28:10.040 And you're for that.

01:28:10.840 Why is that?

01:28:11.460 What do you mean?

01:28:11.880 I didn't say I'm for that.

01:28:12.800 You don't seem to have a problem with it.

01:28:14.200 I didn't say that.

01:28:14.760 That ISIS is now running Syria.

01:28:15.740 You're like, ah, we'll see.

01:28:16.760 No.

01:28:17.940 I mean, I know why.

01:28:18.920 By the way, I didn't push Assad out.

01:28:21.140 Assad toppled.

01:28:22.680 It's hilarious.

01:28:23.660 It's like, Assad is bad, but no, ISIS runs Syria, but that's fine. 0.50

01:28:27.500 We'll just kind of wait and see on ISIS. 0.99

01:28:29.200 Not a big deal.

01:28:29.840 You know why— 0.97

01:28:30.520 Not a big deal to try to kill Trump. 0.57

01:28:31.320 Hold on a second.

01:28:31.880 I want to get back.

01:28:32.840 You know why I don't care, and why—and you do your, like, trademark smirky laugh.

01:28:37.580 I know why you don't care.

01:28:38.200 What are you even talking about?

01:28:39.180 What?

01:28:39.620 Why don't I care?

01:28:40.740 I don't know why.

01:28:41.580 You tell me.

01:28:42.300 Because you think it's okay because they're not making angry noises or something. 1.00

01:28:46.900 But by your own standards, ISIS is so immoral that they must die. 0.93

01:28:52.160 But now they're running Syria, and you don't think that we should take military action against 1.00

01:28:56.800 the government of Syria?

01:28:57.580 Because why?

01:28:58.460 They're ISIS.

01:28:59.080 What I said is, I don't know how good or bad it'll be.

01:29:02.980 Look, I wasn't pushing Assad out.

01:29:04.280 He fell.

01:29:05.240 He fell on his own, in part because he was heavily supported by Hezbollah, and when Israel

01:29:09.180 took out the Hezbollah leadership, he lost his base of support.

01:29:12.460 But the current ISIS leadership, you don't think, is bad? 0.95

01:29:15.560 You can't say it's terrible that ISIS runs a country? 0.56

01:29:17.740 I am concerned about it.

01:29:20.100 Concerned?

01:29:20.700 Aren't you horrified?

01:29:23.400 I want to see what they do.

01:29:25.440 Oh, so you've got to wait and see attitude on ISIS now? 1.00

01:29:27.460 On the government of Syria, they are not actively, that I am aware of, trying to murder Americans.

01:29:34.500 And that's a real dividing line.

01:29:36.160 Are you trying to murder Americans or not?

01:29:37.420 I'm just saying it's a little weird that we wage this war against ISIS, and now they're

01:29:40.960 running a country in the Mediterranean.

01:29:42.980 I think that people would be very, very upset about that.

01:29:45.500 But you don't seem very upset about that.

01:29:46.960 By the way, did you agree with Trump taking out al-Baghdadi, the head of ISIS?

01:29:50.680 I'm totally opposed to ISIS.

01:29:52.720 And what I care about is results, actually.

01:29:55.120 And if taking out the head of ISIS ends ISIS, I guess I'm for it.

01:30:00.080 But now ISIS runs Syria.

01:30:01.780 So I'm wondering, how does this work?

01:30:03.300 I mean, my point is...

01:30:04.820 You weren't at the time.

01:30:05.540 I mean, I've taken so many different positions over the years, some of which have been wrong.

01:30:08.740 I really do my best to be honest and correct if they are and admit that I was wrong.

01:30:12.180 I'm not one of these people who's like, I've always been consistent.

01:30:13.840 No, my views change all the time because the facts change all the time.

01:30:16.480 You're not going to get consistency from me.

01:30:17.980 You're only going to get sincerity.

01:30:18.920 Well, look, I will say this.

01:30:20.920 And look, I believe you're sincere.

01:30:22.620 Yeah.

01:30:23.300 But...

01:30:23.860 I'm not God.

01:30:24.920 I'm just some guy watching trying to figure out the right thing for America.

01:30:27.280 And I think because you believe you were mistaken, and I agree previously, I think you've overcorrected.

01:30:34.600 What do you overcorrected?

01:30:35.360 I'm worried about turning this mess in Iran into a much larger mess. 1.00

01:30:41.320 That's the concern.

01:30:42.120 And by the way, that's a reasonable worry.

01:30:43.580 Look, I know it's reasonable.

01:30:44.500 And I know you've been like, you're like ready to call me all these names for asking, you're just asking questions.

01:30:49.180 Yes, I am.

01:30:49.860 So here's my question to you.

01:30:51.500 If the Ayatollah is killed in Iran, and he very well could be.

01:30:54.260 Yeah, he very well could if there's a war.

01:30:55.760 So I have just read in the paper this morning that Israel tried to take him out twice and Trump told them not to.

01:31:02.700 I have read that.

01:31:03.820 I don't have independent confirmation one way or the other.

01:31:06.260 Do you think that they should take him out?

01:31:08.420 So I actually talked about it.

01:31:09.780 As you know, I do a podcast every week, Verdict with Ted Cruz.

01:31:12.140 And I actually talked about it in the latest podcast.

01:31:13.680 And I said, look, I've seen the reporting that says that Trump asked them not to take out the Ayatollah.

01:31:18.920 And what I said, the podcast is I think it's reasonable for them to decide not to try to take him out.

01:31:23.860 What they've done is targeted just about the entire top level of the military, the people that actually conduct the war.

01:31:30.080 I can see an argument that taking out both the head of state and a religious leader could make him a martyr and could cause more problems than it's worth.

01:31:42.000 And by the way, if you take out the Ayatollah, I don't know that the next guy isn't just as bad. 0.98

01:31:46.360 And so I am.

01:31:48.000 What happens to the country?

01:31:50.040 I don't know.

01:31:51.140 But you mentioned before, I want to go back to this.

01:31:52.960 You said something like you, like most other politicians, are engaged in moral terms.

01:32:00.020 And let me be clear.

01:32:01.000 I am talking about national interest.

01:32:03.520 I am talking about protecting America.

01:32:05.940 So there are bad guys on planet Earth that I don't think we should take out, even though they're bad guys.

01:32:10.240 I'll call them bad guys.

01:32:11.540 But I'm not willing to use U.S. military force to take them out.

01:32:16.580 In this instance, what Israel is doing is taking out their capacity to build nuclear weapons.

01:32:23.560 Why?

01:32:24.140 Because they judge the risk is too high if they got nuclear weapons.

01:32:28.240 I understand that.

01:32:28.820 I mean, I understand that.

01:32:30.060 I think it's in progress.

01:32:31.060 I think it'll probably be achieved, probably with U.S. military support.

01:32:33.880 Who knows?

01:32:34.620 But the president said he's for that.

01:32:36.340 And by the way, where the military support is most needed is Fordow, which is the under – it's a bunker that's built under a mountain.

01:32:43.520 And Israel's taken out most of the rest, like the Tons, which is their big enrichment site. 1.00

01:32:49.080 They bombed the hell out of it.

01:32:50.480 Fordow was deliberately built deep into a mountain so that Israel couldn't take it out. 0.93

01:32:54.980 And there's an active discussion because the U.S. has bunker buster bombs that are big enough to take out Fordow.

01:33:01.300 30,000 pounds.

01:33:02.240 And Israel doesn't. 0.95

01:33:03.540 So the one military piece that –

01:33:06.100 Nor the aircraft to fly them.

01:33:07.220 Correct.

01:33:07.800 Right.

01:33:08.020 But here's – I guess what bothers me is that I said two weeks ago the real goal here is regime change in Iran.

01:33:14.020 It's not –

01:33:14.160 I don't think that's Trump's goal.

01:33:15.640 It's your goal.

01:33:16.700 It's Israel's goal. 0.99

01:33:17.640 I'm not attacking anyone.

01:33:18.720 I'm just saying it's important to be honest and not lie and not attack people for telling the truth.

01:33:22.320 So I believe I've been assiduously honest in this.

01:33:25.540 But words matter.

01:33:27.120 You said the real goal here is regime change, and it's your goal.

01:33:30.320 And I want to be clear.

01:33:31.360 Well, you said it was your goal.

01:33:32.280 I want to be clear because words matter.

01:33:35.220 Do I support regime change and would I like a government that doesn't hate America and isn't trying to kill us in Iran?

01:33:40.440 Yes.

01:33:40.940 That's a good outcome.

01:33:42.800 Is that the objective of these military strikes?

01:33:46.560 I don't think necessarily.

01:33:47.740 I don't know if it's Israel's.

01:33:50.000 It's not my objective.

01:33:51.180 My objective is taking out – 0.95

01:33:52.000 If Israel decides we're going to decapitate the government and try to foment an uprising against it, should the United States participate in that operation in any way?

01:34:02.060 Look, I have not called for killing the Ayatollah. 0.72

01:34:07.000 And there is – nations in war generally refrain from attacking and killing heads of state.

01:34:14.700 Now, the Ayatollah doesn't.

01:34:15.900 He's trying to kill Trump.

01:34:16.760 We talked about that. 0.97

01:34:17.520 But we shouldn't punish him for it.

01:34:19.520 Look, there has been a longstanding – nations in war have refrained from killing heads of state.

01:34:27.460 I have not publicly called for killing the Ayatollah.

01:34:29.940 What I've called for is doing whatever is necessary to stop him from getting nuclear weapons.

01:34:34.600 In the first Trump term, what that meant was maximum pressure.

01:34:37.300 So, in the first Trump term, I spent a lot of time urging the president to withdraw from the disastrous Iranian nuclear deal that Obama had.

01:34:45.260 President Trump agreed with me.

01:34:46.400 He did that.

01:34:47.480 And then I urged him to end the oil waivers and to sanction the hell out of the country.

01:34:51.820 And it ended up crippling their economy.

01:34:54.380 So, Iran at the time was selling two million barrels of oil a day – one million barrels – I'm sorry, one million barrels of oil a day.

01:35:01.720 When President Trump ended the oil waivers, it cut their sales to 300,000 barrels a day.

01:35:08.740 At the end of the Trump term, the Iranian economy was in shambles.

01:35:12.060 They had massive inflation.

01:35:13.540 I think the regime was teetering.

01:35:14.940 I think it might have fallen.

01:35:15.840 I would use economic sanctions and I would use moral suasion to try to effectuate the regime change.

01:35:21.960 Okay, so you topple the regime and buy whatever means.

01:35:24.360 What happens then?

01:35:25.420 How many people live in Iran, by the way?

01:35:27.080 I don't know the population.

01:35:28.740 At all?

01:35:29.660 No, I don't know the population.

01:35:31.520 You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple?

01:35:35.860 How many people live in Iran?

01:35:37.060 92 million.

01:35:37.820 Okay.

01:35:39.220 Yeah.

01:35:39.680 How could you not know that?

01:35:42.060 I don't sit around memorizing population tables.

01:35:44.920 Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.

01:35:48.540 Why is it relevant whether it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million?

01:35:52.320 Why is that relevant?

01:35:53.060 Because if you don't know anything about the country –

01:35:54.420 I didn't say I don't know anything about them.

01:35:55.540 Okay, what's the ethnic mix of Iran?

01:35:58.600 They are Persians and predominantly Shia.

01:36:01.120 Okay, this is –

01:36:02.260 No, it's not even – you don't know anything about Iran.

01:36:04.840 So actually the country –

01:36:05.860 Okay, I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran who says –

01:36:08.880 You're a senator who's calling for the overthrow of the government and you don't know anything about the country.

01:36:13.520 No, you don't know anything about the country.

01:36:15.220 You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump.

01:36:17.860 No, I'm not saying that.

01:36:19.180 You're the one who can't figure out if it was a good idea to kill General Soleimani and you said it was bad.

01:36:23.040 You don't believe they're trying to murder Trump.

01:36:24.520 Yes, I do.

01:36:25.020 Because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation.

01:36:28.160 Okay, we are carrying out military strikes today.

01:36:31.100 You said Israel was.

01:36:32.100 Right, with our help.

01:36:33.980 I said we.

01:36:34.780 Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them. 1.00

01:36:36.780 Well, you're breaking news here because the U.S. government last night denied –

01:36:40.660 the National Security Council spokesman Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump

01:36:44.100 that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity at all.

01:36:47.600 No, we're not bombing them.

01:36:48.520 Israel's bombing them.

01:36:49.480 You just said we were.

01:36:51.560 We are supporting Israel.

01:36:53.080 This is high stakes.

01:36:53.580 You're a senator.

01:36:54.280 If you're saying the United States government is at war with Iran right now, people are listening. 1.00

01:36:57.940 Okay, we are not bombing them.

01:36:59.860 Oh, okay.

01:37:00.260 Israel is bombing them.

01:37:01.420 Hey, why did you do the snide?

01:37:03.220 Oh, okay.

01:37:03.680 What do you mean?

01:37:04.160 Because this is super high stakes stuff.

01:37:06.200 This is a huge country that borders a lot of other important countries, a lot of the world.

01:37:10.500 Energy comes from there.

01:37:11.960 Let me ask you, Tucker.

01:37:12.740 You don't want another disaster.

01:37:14.120 You don't want to be reckless. 0.87

01:37:14.640 Tucker, the Ayatollah refers to Israel as the little Satan and America as the great Satan.

01:37:19.220 Do you believe him? 0.51

01:37:20.240 When he says it's the great Satan, do you think if the Ayatollah could murder both of us right now that he would?

01:37:26.760 I do.

01:37:27.560 I believe him.

01:37:28.260 Okay.

01:37:28.820 I assume no good faith in the part of the Ayatollah.

01:37:31.160 They're not good faith.

01:37:31.400 And if your implication is like I'm pro-Ayatollah or something.

01:37:34.520 No, no, no.

01:37:34.980 It's not good faith.

01:37:36.280 It's that –

01:37:36.580 I'm just saying you're a lawmaker.

01:37:38.280 You're a powerful person in Washington.

01:37:40.500 This is the most powerful country in the world.

01:37:42.100 If you're calling for toppling in government, it's incumbent on you to know something about the country and to think through the consequences of that.

01:37:47.440 And you haven't and you don't.

01:37:48.660 And I'm saying that's reckless.

01:37:49.840 Okay.

01:37:50.440 You are – you engage in reckless rhetoric with no facts.

01:37:55.640 And to be clear –

01:37:56.380 I'm not calling for the overthrow of a government.

01:37:58.500 You are.

01:37:58.960 You put out a newsletter attacking Donald Trump and calling him complicit.

01:38:02.600 I've never attacked Donald Trump.

01:38:04.120 Yes, you have.

01:38:05.500 And by the way –

01:38:06.420 I campaigned for Donald Trump.

01:38:07.460 Okay, yes.

01:38:08.040 And this is like –

01:38:08.760 After anti-Semitism, this is the last refuge. 0.98

01:38:11.580 You're an anti-Seminin. 0.99

01:38:12.680 You hate Trump. 0.96

01:38:13.680 Okay.

01:38:13.920 I love Trump.

01:38:14.640 I will read.

01:38:15.480 You put out a whole newsletter saying Trump has abandoned America first.

01:38:18.540 And here's what Trump said in response.

01:38:20.640 Well, considering that I'm the one that developed America first and considering that the term wasn't used until I came along, I think I'm the one who decides that.

01:38:27.720 For those people who say they want peace, you can't have peace if Iran has a nuclear weapon. 0.96

01:38:32.140 So for all of those wonderful people who don't want to do anything about Iran having a nuclear weapon, that's not peace.

01:38:38.840 That was directed at you.

01:38:40.060 Man, this is – you got me.

01:38:41.940 Busted.

01:38:42.780 No, I'm just saying –

01:38:44.500 Look, my views – look, I like Trump.

01:38:47.540 I campaigned for Trump.

01:38:48.460 I know Trump.

01:38:48.920 I talked to him last night.

01:38:50.020 I'm not against Trump, and you know that.

01:38:52.060 I think that –

01:38:52.680 But you're against his foreign policy.

01:38:53.660 I think that we should be very careful about entering into more foreign wars that don't help us when our country is dying.

01:39:01.620 When you say don't help us –

01:39:02.940 And our country is dying.

01:39:03.920 Look, yes, focus on our country.

01:39:06.040 I'm all for it.

01:39:06.960 But the naivete –

01:39:09.040 You don't even know how much money this costs.

01:39:10.820 You don't know anything about the country whose government you want to overthrow.

01:39:14.220 And you're calling me reckless. 0.99

01:39:16.340 I want to stop a lunatic who wants to murder us from getting nuclear weapons. 0.98

01:39:20.020 That could kill millions of Americans. 0.97

01:39:22.480 You say, I can't see how that benefits America in any way.

01:39:25.980 That is bizarre.

01:39:27.460 And by the way, isolationism –

01:39:29.680 Your foreign policy is the foreign policy of Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama.

01:39:33.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:39:33.520 And it doesn't work.

01:39:34.620 I'm a big leftist. 0.98

01:39:36.060 This is so silly. 0.89

01:39:37.580 Now I'm Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama. 0.88

01:39:39.220 Okay.

01:39:39.840 Let me – just say one last thing.

01:39:41.520 So how is your foreign policy different from Jimmy Carter's?

01:39:44.200 Seriously.

01:39:45.020 Please.

01:39:46.100 May I ask that question seriously?

01:39:48.860 I don't even know what you're talking about.

01:39:51.800 Jimmy Carter?

01:39:53.260 So –

01:39:53.800 What century is this?

01:39:54.840 I am the product of the last 25 years watching carefully, being involved in the periphery,

01:40:00.300 and I see an unending string of foreign policy disasters that have impoverished and hurt our country.

01:40:04.640 An unending string.

01:40:05.620 An unending string.

01:40:06.640 They would include Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, and our inability to stop the Houthis, 0.99

01:40:12.560 by the way, in Yemen, which exposes us as weak, and I grieve over that.

01:40:15.640 So these are failures.

01:40:17.560 You helped preside over some of them as a member of the Senate.

01:40:20.460 What failures – foreign policy failures have I presided over?

01:40:24.260 Well, we were unable to beat Russia in the war that you supported against Russia.

01:40:28.860 You've been spending the last three years telling us that Vladimir Putin is evil

01:40:32.940 and we're going to beat him with other people's children, and a million of those kids are now dead. 0.64

01:40:37.060 You've never apologized for that. 0.73

01:40:38.380 That was a full failure.

01:40:39.280 By the way, look, the level of – number of falsehoods you lay out just in one statement are rather stunning.

01:40:45.100 You haven't supported the war against Russia? 0.61

01:40:48.280 Are rather stunning.

01:40:49.460 So the war against Russia was caused, which I have explained in great detail, by Joe Biden's weakness.

01:40:57.600 But you supported the war.

01:40:59.040 If you want to talk – we can talk Russia and Ukraine.

01:41:00.980 I'm happy to talk about it.

01:41:03.100 Do you think that's been a success?

01:41:04.880 No, it's been an absolute disaster.

01:41:06.180 Okay, but you supported it.

01:41:07.200 Shouldn't you apologize?

01:41:08.260 No, you should apologize.

01:41:10.380 For what?

01:41:10.800 I'm not going to engage in the demanding of apologizing.

01:41:13.280 So I'm going to –

01:41:13.740 I'm like, that's my point.

01:41:14.920 All these failures – no one ever says I'm sorry.

01:41:17.120 Is that better, or do you just throw out – like, if you want to talk, we can talk.

01:41:21.180 Okay.

01:41:21.760 I do.

01:41:22.780 I want to know why – that seems like a true disaster for the United States.

01:41:27.840 You have supported it.

01:41:29.200 Do you believe Joe Biden's weakness caused the war in Ukraine?

01:41:31.900 I think Joe Biden's aggression caused it.

01:41:34.000 His aggression?

01:41:34.660 What aggression?

01:41:34.980 He demanded that Ukraine join NATO.

01:41:38.200 How does that help the United States?

01:41:40.500 It is a terrible idea, and I have vigorously opposed Ukraine joining NATO.

01:41:44.960 Okay.

01:41:45.320 So that's what caused the war. 0.67

01:41:46.480 No, it's not.

01:41:47.560 Okay.

01:41:48.120 All right.

01:41:48.400 Do you want to know what caused the war?

01:41:49.540 Look, you do the dismissive.

01:41:50.760 You're not actually interested in facts.

01:41:52.340 You're like, okay.

01:41:53.520 Okay.

01:41:53.940 Tell me – it seems super – you're absolutely right, and I'm sorry.

01:41:58.060 That is a tick of mine that is wrong, and I mean this with sincerity.

01:42:01.120 I'm sorry to do that to you.

01:42:02.880 I just think it seems so obvious that sending Kamala Harris to the NATO Security Conference to say you're going to join NATO is what triggered the invasion days later.

01:42:11.580 Okay.

01:42:11.940 So can I – this will take a few minutes to lay out because it's complicated, but I think the facts matter.

01:42:17.520 I think two things caused the war in Ukraine.

01:42:20.520 Number one, I think Biden's incredible weakness and the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan.

01:42:25.180 Now, I believe we need to leave Afghanistan, but not with the incompetence that involved – that led to 13 servicemen and women. 0.98

01:42:32.060 Being murdered by terrorists there.

01:42:34.240 The way Biden did that was disastrous, and I think our enemies looked to the commander-in-chief and said, this president is weak.

01:42:41.500 And when that withdrawal was so disastrous, I said publicly at the time, the chances of Putin invading Ukraine have just risen tenfold.

01:42:49.140 Right.

01:42:49.840 But secondly, and this is critically –

01:42:52.520 Well, I agree.

01:42:52.960 That was awful, the withdrawal.

01:42:54.560 And it was a major cause of – our enemies all said, hey, this president is weak.

01:42:59.400 And so it invited – and by the way, look, I despise war, and I think weakness and isolationism produces war because it invites aggression from our bad guys.

01:43:13.920 It's why I agree with Ronald Reagan's peace through strength.

01:43:16.740 The best way you avoid war is being strong enough that your enemies don't want to mess with you.

01:43:20.860 But let's get back to Ukraine and Russia. 0.72

01:43:23.740 Look, Putin didn't wake up two years ago and decided he wanted to invade Ukraine.

01:43:29.500 He's wanted to invade Ukraine for decades.

01:43:32.620 Putin has referred to the collapse of the Soviet Union as, quote, the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century.

01:43:38.720 And Putin has long been explicit his desire is to reassemble the old Soviet Union and, in fact, reassemble the Russian Empire that was even bigger than that.

01:43:48.740 If you want to reassemble the Soviet Union, the natural place to start is Ukraine. 0.96

01:43:54.040 Do you really believe that Putin has territorial designs on Eastern Europe?

01:43:57.700 Yes.

01:43:58.040 What countries?

01:43:58.980 He has said – you can go and read his – hold on.

01:44:01.860 I don't want to lose the narrative of what happened, so we can go back and do that, but I don't want to lose telling the story first.

01:44:07.640 So let me explain this, and then if you want to go back, we can take all sorts of digressions.

01:44:12.160 But just give me a couple of minutes to lay out the facts of what happened.

01:44:16.420 He has wanted to invade Ukraine a long time, and he's done it before.

01:44:20.540 In 2014, he invaded Ukraine, invaded Crimea.

01:44:23.320 When Barack Obama was president, he invaded the southern portion.

01:44:26.520 He did not invade the rest of the country.

01:44:29.600 Why?

01:44:29.940 And the reason is the principal source of revenue for Russia is oil and gas, and the natural gas pipelines run right through the country of Ukraine, and he didn't want to jeopardize his ability to get gas to Europe.

01:44:43.540 Right.

01:44:43.840 So in 2015, Putin started a project called Nord Stream 2.

01:44:48.640 Did anything happen in 2014?

01:44:50.020 In terms of what?

01:44:53.780 Wasn't there a coup in Ukraine run by the Obama administration?

01:44:59.880 Let me finish telling – I told you, we'll take lots of digressions in a second.

01:45:03.140 Let me finish telling the narrative.

01:45:06.860 2015, Putin began building Nord Stream 2.

01:45:10.680 Nord Stream 2 is an undersea pipeline that runs from Russia to Germany.

01:45:13.860 The entire purpose of Nord Stream 2 is when it was completed and turned on, it would let Russia circumvent Ukraine and get its gas straight to Europe.

01:45:23.420 In 2019, Nord Stream 2 was almost complete, and the conventional wisdom in Washington was, this is terrible, but there's nothing we can do about it.

01:45:32.120 I didn't believe that.

01:45:33.580 So I drafted sanctions legislation that was targeted to stop the pipeline.

01:45:38.840 My legislation passed the Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support.

01:45:43.140 It passed the House, and Donald Trump signed it in law.

01:45:46.600 Why would – can I just ask, why wouldn't you want Germany to have cheap energy?

01:45:51.380 Because it empowers Russia, and I believe in making our enemies weaker and our friends stronger. 1.00

01:45:56.940 Has blowing up Nord Stream made Germany stronger?

01:46:01.060 Not being dependent on Russia has made Germany stronger.

01:46:03.820 So you think Germany is stronger now than it was four years ago?

01:46:06.720 I think not being dependent on Russia – Germany has all sorts of problems, and many of them are domestic to their own politics.

01:46:11.240 Hold on, let me finish.

01:46:12.040 I'm trying to –

01:46:12.860 No, but what you're saying, it doesn't – Germany seems so much weaker now that its energy costs have spiked, and the manufacturing sector is collapsing because of that.

01:46:22.520 Let me finish.

01:46:24.660 I'm focused on America's interest.

01:46:27.080 I don't want Russia stronger because I believe Russia is our enemy. 0.97

01:46:30.500 You and I disagree on that.

01:46:31.880 We can talk about that.

01:46:32.800 But I want our enemies weaker.

01:46:35.680 I don't want to go to war with Russia, but I want our enemies weaker.

01:46:38.520 I don't want Europe dependent on Russia. 0.55

01:46:40.960 I don't want Putin rich with oil and gas revenues and able to invest in his military and pose a threat to America.

01:46:48.800 So, the sanctions legislation that I authored, it passed.

01:46:53.680 Putin stopped building Nord Stream 2 literally the day that President Trump signed my sanctions legislation in law.

01:47:00.260 He signed it, if I remember right, at 7 p.m. on a Thursday.

01:47:04.560 Putin stopped construction at 6.45 p.m.

01:47:06.960 So, the sanctions legislation worked, and it killed the pipeline.

01:47:11.680 The pipeline lay dormant for over a year, just a hunk of metal at the bottom of the ocean.

01:47:18.020 Joe Biden came into office.

01:47:19.420 He was sworn in on January 20th, 2021.

01:47:23.240 Putin resumed deep-sea construction at Nord Stream 2 four days later, January 24th.

01:47:28.160 He did so because Biden had foreshadowed weakness on this issue.

01:47:32.160 That foreshadowing was accurate because several months later, Biden formally waived the sanctions on Nord Stream 2 and let Putin complete the pipeline.

01:47:40.940 In January of 2022, I forced a vote on the Senate floor to reimpose sanctions on Nord Stream 2.

01:47:47.300 The week of the vote, President Zelensky in Ukraine publicly called on the Senate,

01:47:52.280 please pass this sanctions legislation.

01:47:54.620 It is the last best hope of stopping Russia from invading Ukraine. 0.76

01:47:58.500 At the same time, the government of Poland put out a formal statement from the foreign ministry to the Senate,

01:48:04.880 calling on the Senate to pass my sanctions legislation, and said,

01:48:08.220 if you do not, Putin will invade Ukraine.

01:48:11.580 The day of the vote, Joe Biden came to Capitol Hill.

01:48:15.540 It's the first time in his presidency he had done that.

01:48:18.240 He went to the Democrat senator's lunch, and he personally lobbied them on this issue.

01:48:22.900 Not any other issue.

01:48:23.760 This was his number one issue that he came to lobby them on.

01:48:26.480 They came out of that lunch.

01:48:29.560 Every Democrat had voted with me twice against Nord Stream 2.

01:48:32.900 Forty-four Democrats flipped their vote.

01:48:35.500 They voted in favor of Russia, in favor of Putin, and four weeks later, Russia invaded Ukraine.

01:48:41.060 That was the direct cause of the war.

01:48:43.220 And if Trump had been president, there would be no war in Ukraine.

01:48:45.740 So may I ask, I, of course, disagree with your analysis completely, but I want to be respectful.

01:48:52.040 So tell me what you disagree with.

01:48:53.040 But it's such a long conversation.

01:48:55.540 I've spent the last couple of years on this, and I just respectfully disagree with your analysis.

01:48:59.500 But I don't doubt your sincerity that you believe that Putin is our enemy, that Western Europe should not be allowed to use Russian energy.

01:49:07.700 I mean, you seem to really believe these things.

01:49:09.480 My question is about results, because I think it's relevant to what we're seeing now in Iran.

01:49:14.980 You look back after having you personally voted to send billions and billions and billions of U.S. tax dollars to Zelensky to support his civil service and the war against Russia and all this stuff.

01:49:24.460 Can you say that what you did worked?

01:49:30.360 So I can say what I did personally, sanctioning Nord Stream 2, worked and prevented a war. 0.90

01:49:36.100 And if Trump had still been there, if the sanction had been in effect, there would be no war.

01:49:40.040 I'm in favor of avoiding wars.

01:49:42.220 But once the war broke out, you voted to fund it to the tune of billions and billions and billions.

01:49:47.620 And to be clear.

01:49:48.960 And did that work?

01:49:50.120 OK, to be to be clear, what I voted for, I voted for the initial tranche of funding and then I voted against the subsequent one.

01:49:55.960 So it hasn't worked.

01:49:57.040 So I've been in between.

01:49:58.660 I haven't been on the full Ukraine, full throated hawk side or the anti from day one.

01:50:05.040 I voted for the initial tranche of funding because I wanted Russia to lose. 0.61

01:50:10.780 I think the Biden administration administered it in a horrible way.

01:50:14.400 I think they wasted a ton of money.

01:50:15.960 And I think what they did was actually incoherent because they were funding both sides of the war.

01:50:20.920 And I was very vocal.

01:50:22.300 And among other things, flooding 100 million dollars to Iran, which was used, among other things, to help the nuclear program, but also to make drones that Russia used to fight.

01:50:30.860 So here's my concern.

01:50:32.060 I'm not going to defend the Biden administration.

01:50:34.040 Really did a lot to wreck the United States.

01:50:35.840 Yeah, the most damaging administration in history.

01:50:38.260 At the end, where we sit now, Russia is stronger. 0.98

01:50:40.100 It's closely allied long term with China.

01:50:42.120 I don't know that Russia is stronger.

01:50:42.980 I don't think that's right.

01:50:43.800 OK, I think it's pretty obvious that it is, but it's certainly not destroyed.

01:50:49.840 And it's allied long term with China.

01:50:53.000 Maybe that look that there's no doubt Biden's foreign policy drove Russia into the arms of China.

01:50:57.900 And that's concerning.

01:50:59.220 They also have a long history of animosity.

01:51:01.640 Western Europe is weaker and more in debt.

01:51:04.060 The United States is weaker and much more in debt.

01:51:06.340 Look, hold on.

01:51:07.560 So you are agreeing.

01:51:09.540 We're agreeing.

01:51:10.280 We're agreeing.

01:51:10.740 Here's my question.

01:51:12.720 Have you questioned any of your previous assumptions?

01:51:16.400 Did you play any role in this at all?

01:51:18.060 Are you responsible at all?

01:51:19.440 Of course.

01:51:20.260 And like you, you said.

01:51:21.300 What have you learned?

01:51:22.460 Like you, you said you've changed your mind.

01:51:25.340 I voted for the first funding of the Ukraine war.

01:51:28.920 And I voted against every subsequent funding stream because it wasn't working.

01:51:32.360 And I looked at what was happening and said, this is not working.

01:51:35.360 And had the money been spent in an intelligent way and not wasted and had it been successful,

01:51:40.580 I might have been willing to fund more.

01:51:41.880 But it wasn't successful.

01:51:42.880 So I voted no.

01:51:43.860 And the war is going to end. 0.86

01:51:45.140 Look, President Trump campaigned on ending the war.

01:51:47.740 I think he's frustrated because Putin has been less than eager to reach a deal to end the war.

01:51:52.900 But it's going to end.

01:51:53.880 You're not going to see another dollar coming from Congress.

01:51:56.140 Who wants to end the war?

01:51:59.440 I think Zelensky has behaved horribly.

01:52:03.800 I think his Oval Office meeting will go down in history as the worst Oval Office meeting of any leader that has ever come to the Oval Office. 1.00

01:52:10.960 I think he behaved like a pompous ass. 0.99

01:52:13.400 And I think he is unrealistic. 0.99

01:52:16.300 I think Zelensky spends his time with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in The New York Times.

01:52:21.380 And he believed he was going to the Oval Office as a resist figure.

01:52:24.480 And I think he's doing real damage to his country right now.

01:52:26.820 You described him many times as a hero.

01:52:29.780 Do you?

01:52:30.580 I don't believe, I don't recall ever using the word hero.

01:52:33.400 I will say, look, I'm not, I'm not a Zelensky cheerleader.

01:52:37.040 And I'm not in the business of saying everyone we support has to be a sage and everyone we oppose has to be a villain.

01:52:43.880 I'm not in the morality game.

01:52:45.620 I'm in the U.S. interest game.

01:52:48.180 Why did I want Nord Stream 2 stopped?

01:52:50.660 Because it would strengthen Russia and Russia's our enemies. 0.98

01:52:52.960 It's entirely U.S. interest.

01:52:55.580 Did you support the industrial sabotage against it, blowing it up?

01:52:59.540 So I think you believe America did that.

01:53:03.060 Is that right?

01:53:04.160 Of course.

01:53:05.080 OK, I think the chances of that are zero.

01:53:06.760 You think Russia did it? 0.90

01:53:08.120 No, I think Ukraine did it.

01:53:09.300 OK, so I don't know.

01:53:12.280 So I don't know who did it.

01:53:13.760 In terms of the theories that had been put out there, the idea that Russia blew up their own pipeline never made any sense to me at all.

01:53:22.360 That just I can't even articulate why they would do that.

01:53:25.340 The idea that Biden did that.

01:53:29.000 Look, I could see it being in U.S. interest to do that, to blow up Nord Stream 2.

01:53:32.740 I just think Biden was too weak.

01:53:34.200 I don't believe Joe Biden.

01:53:35.340 But are you and I guess you and so that the Norwegians, the Ukrainians, NATO, whatever.

01:53:42.340 Look, that seems to me, you know, who benefits?

01:53:46.000 And it leads me to think either the Ukrainians blew it up or Ukraine's allies. 0.78

01:53:51.380 I don't think Biden did because I just Biden was so weak.

01:53:54.680 I don't think he would give the order.

01:53:55.800 I find that implausible.

01:53:57.400 But you're in favor of it.

01:53:58.620 Look, I was in favor of stopping it.

01:54:00.160 I think I think blowing it up is a was a good thing.

01:54:03.180 So so I'm I'm supportive of that.

01:54:05.760 But I don't think America did that.

01:54:07.900 I don't think Biden gave that order.

01:54:09.660 But in general, Trump giving that order.

01:54:11.840 But he wasn't in office.

01:54:13.660 Yes. Yeah.

01:54:14.720 And you think that the largest act of industrial sabotage in history helped our allies in Western Europe or other NATO fellow NATO members.

01:54:22.000 Look, I got to say, I don't understand.

01:54:24.220 For some reason, you are really invested in defending Russia.

01:54:29.360 And I don't get that.

01:54:30.180 I'm not attacking you with that.

01:54:31.480 I'm genuinely like I don't get why you're you're so passionate about defending Russia.

01:54:37.380 Actually, I was defending Western Europe, the home of my ancestors.

01:54:41.280 And that, you know, tripling their energy costs and destroying their industrial base.

01:54:45.860 No, no, no, not.

01:54:46.760 No, not like you just accused me of being an anti-Semite, an isolationist and a Russia lackey.

01:54:51.700 I've not called you a neocon once, which you are.

01:54:54.320 But I have that's absurd.

01:54:55.400 I get those neocons that oppose the Iraq war.

01:54:58.280 But like that.

01:54:59.260 That's OK.

01:54:59.920 But I haven't called you that because we just said which you are.

01:55:03.760 So you just called that.

01:55:04.720 OK, call me that.

01:55:05.360 You just did.

01:55:06.040 I guess what I'm saying is you're triggered because I use name calling.

01:55:08.940 I get it.

01:55:09.480 I was triggered when you called me names.

01:55:10.880 And I'm triggered once again that you're calling me a Russia defender when, in fact,

01:55:13.700 I'm defending Western Europe.

01:55:15.640 And I don't think that you think Putin's our enemy.

01:55:19.300 Well, he's literally our enemy.

01:55:21.020 You are funding a war against him.

01:55:22.580 Do you think he is our enemy?

01:55:23.660 You're saying we're his enemy.

01:55:25.200 Do you think Putin is our enemy?

01:55:26.680 I think it is a tragedy that your policies, your policies, specifically yours, helped

01:55:32.400 drive Putin into the arms of China, forming a block that's larger than us. 0.89

01:55:36.020 So you won't answer that question?

01:55:38.180 I don't.

01:55:39.320 He is literally our enemy right now.

01:55:41.180 That is a tragedy for the United States.

01:55:43.240 No, no.

01:55:43.500 You're saying.

01:55:44.680 But you won't say he is our enemy.

01:55:46.560 And look, like I don't know in what sense.

01:55:48.200 I don't want to be enemies with Russia.

01:55:50.220 It doesn't help us at all.

01:55:52.360 It may help some people in the United States.

01:55:54.580 But in general, I don't want to be.

01:55:56.540 I don't want to be at war with Russia.

01:55:59.420 I don't think it is in our interest to be at war with Russia.

01:56:01.840 I don't want Russia aligned with China.

01:56:02.480 That is a disaster.

01:56:03.520 But listen, no doubt.

01:56:04.820 And I want Russia and China attention.

01:56:06.320 So I agree with you there. 0.90

01:56:07.980 But but I think Putin is a KGB thug. 0.96

01:56:10.480 I think he is a bad man. 0.91

01:56:11.940 Now, I don't want to go to war with him over that.

01:56:13.740 But but I'm not naive.

01:56:15.160 And like I watched your bad man.

01:56:17.580 He's a bad man.

01:56:19.120 OK, look, I watched your episode where you went to the Russian grocery store.

01:56:23.640 And I'm was that disloyal.

01:56:26.260 Do you think it was just weird?

01:56:27.720 It was like a promo video for Russia.

01:56:31.320 And I don't understand.

01:56:32.460 I'm well, I'm not attacking you when I ask why, because I'm genuinely like I don't get like when you called me.

01:56:37.960 And I said something you weren't attacking me.

01:56:38.880 You were just noticing.

01:56:39.460 But may I ask you a question to here?

01:56:44.080 Well, let me just answer yours by saying the United States, the Biden administration, with your help, full support, began this war on Russia in response to their invasion of Ukraine.

01:56:55.160 And one of the things it was they kicked Russia out of SWIFT, of the international financial system.

01:56:58.780 And my first response was this is going to really hurt the US dollar, which it has.

01:57:02.260 And I hope someday we can have a conversation about that.

01:57:04.920 But it's really, really hurt the one thing that we needed, which was to retain dollar supremacy.

01:57:12.060 So I was interested in the in the economic condition.

01:57:14.880 By the way, that's a reasonable point and a serious conversation.

01:57:17.340 I'm aware.

01:57:18.020 I'm aware.

01:57:18.660 And I was.

01:57:19.080 But I can agree with you.

01:57:20.040 Like, like.

01:57:20.340 No, no.

01:57:20.520 But I was accused of being.

01:57:21.680 I think it's weird that you went to a Russian grocery store and said it was prosperous.

01:57:24.840 No, my point is.

01:57:26.040 It looked like a commercial.

01:57:26.900 It looked like a commercial.

01:57:28.180 Isn't this wonderful?

01:57:29.060 No, it was an argument against the efficacy of sanctions, sanctions against Russia, which

01:57:35.940 you casually and enthusiastically imposed, scoring a little moral victory every time, had no

01:57:42.580 material effect that helped the United States.

01:57:45.060 Russia is backstopped by China.

01:57:47.180 And when you and I recommend that you go there and see it, it is way nicer than Washington,

01:57:51.920 D.C., way nicer to me.

01:57:54.560 That's a tragedy.

01:57:55.800 I was horrified and angry at my leaders, including you.

01:57:59.360 It's like, I want to live in a country that's nice, with low food costs and no homeless people.

01:58:04.040 All right.

01:58:04.540 I don't understand why that's too much to ask.

01:58:06.920 So do I.

01:58:07.520 Instead, I get worse with Iran. 1.00

01:58:09.160 No, I just want lower food costs.

01:58:10.720 How's that?

01:58:11.860 So, look, it's a weird argument that you do often, which is, listen, things are crappy

01:58:19.100 in America. 0.66

01:58:20.100 Liberals have done bad things to America.

01:58:21.920 So we shouldn't worry about any enemies around the world.

01:58:24.840 Republican senators, they don't care about us. 0.99

01:58:26.820 They're focused on other countries.

01:58:27.920 You wrote that.

01:58:28.400 And our country is dying.

01:58:29.980 And you don't care because you're focused on Iran or Putin.

01:58:33.660 So you believe that I don't care about America.

01:58:35.700 I guess you believe Donald Trump doesn't either.

01:58:37.320 Like, nobody cares.

01:58:38.260 I believe that your focus is way too on other countries.

01:58:43.700 It's way too focused outward.

01:58:44.860 The money that you send abroad could be used here and should be.

01:58:47.680 What money that I send abroad, by the way, I emphatically agree with.

01:58:50.820 How much did you send to Ukraine?

01:58:51.500 You don't even know.

01:58:52.240 I emphatically agree with Donald Trump's, for example, dramatically slashing USAID.

01:58:59.220 I think the only reason we should be deploying that is to benefit U.S. interest, national security

01:59:05.920 interest, and keep Americans safe.

01:59:07.880 And so.

01:59:08.640 How much did you vote to send to Ukraine?

01:59:10.420 Look, you're in about $80 billion.

01:59:13.400 $80 billion.

01:59:13.980 Yeah.

01:59:14.400 So you're in, you love just giving these broad characterizations that are not accurate.

01:59:23.040 I'm genuinely puzzled.

01:59:26.000 Look, I don't want to go to war with Russia, but I don't think they're our friend. 1.00

01:59:31.420 I think Putin.

01:59:32.160 I agree. 1.00

01:59:32.980 I think Putin is a murderer. 1.00

01:59:34.540 I think he's a liar. 1.00

01:59:35.340 And I think he does not wish well on America. 0.97

01:59:37.840 Okay.

01:59:38.160 And there's a difference between saying that, just like Reagan referred to the Soviet Union

01:59:43.900 as an evil empire, and Putin was in the KGB.

01:59:46.680 Look, my father was imprisoned and tortured in Cuba. 0.99

01:59:49.360 I hate communists.

01:59:51.000 It was actually Batista that tortured my dad. 0.74

01:59:53.220 My aunt was imprisoned and tortured by Castro. 0.98

01:59:55.400 I hate communists. 0.99

01:59:56.860 I think communism is evil. 0.95

01:59:59.360 And so I think there is a value to, there is nobody who stands up to communist China more 0.91

02:00:05.260 in the Senate than I do, because I think they're evil.

02:00:07.940 Do I want to go to war with China?

02:00:09.180 Of course not. 0.96

02:00:10.060 That would be ridiculous.

02:00:11.240 But I think we have all sorts of tools to stand up to our enemies.

02:00:15.480 And I think China is engaged in a thousand year war against the United States.

02:00:19.660 They're trying to defeat us.

02:00:20.580 We're so all over the map.

02:00:21.440 We're your family in prison in Cuba and China and all this stuff.

02:00:23.480 I just, I agree with you.

02:00:26.180 I'm totally opposed to communism.

02:00:27.180 Always have been.

02:00:28.840 I don't think that Putin loves us.

02:00:31.420 I, I'm distressed by the moral condition of most leaders around the world. 0.97

02:00:35.200 Most of them, they all kill people.

02:00:36.640 I'm against that.

02:00:37.740 I'm just saying, I wish the focus here was more on the United States.

02:00:41.620 Can I say something?

02:00:42.100 I actually don't agree with that statement.

02:00:43.860 They all kill people.

02:00:44.740 There's a moral relativism.

02:00:46.200 So I don't think Donald Trump is a murderer.

02:00:48.020 He doesn't kill people.

02:00:48.860 We don't have concentration camps. 1.00

02:00:49.620 Donald Trump a murderer. 0.99

02:00:50.500 You just said world leaders all kill people. 1.00

02:00:53.080 And there's a moral relativism.

02:00:55.600 I'm hardly a moral relativist.

02:00:57.200 But you are.

02:00:57.920 You just, that statement was the essence of-

02:01:00.020 I'm an anti-Semite, an isolationist, a moral relativist. 0.72

02:01:03.460 I'm okay.

02:01:04.120 No, I'm not.

02:01:05.040 Did you just say world leaders all kill people?

02:01:07.580 I'm saying I'm against killing people in general.

02:01:10.080 So-

02:01:10.820 And hyperventilating about how Putin was in the KGB or whatever.

02:01:14.400 I just want to serve American interests and pushing into China is not in our interest at all.

02:01:17.700 And you helped do it and you haven't apologized.

02:01:19.780 And by the way, you're the cheerleader.

02:01:22.120 I helped drive him into China.

02:01:23.520 You did.

02:01:24.080 It's a complete lie.

02:01:25.080 You funded the war against him.

02:01:26.360 No, I authored the legislation that shut down Nord Stream 2 that prevented the war.

02:01:30.800 And if Trump had still been in the White House, we would have had the war.

02:01:33.840 And look, the comment you made, the reason things like moral relativism are so dangerous.

02:01:38.300 Oh, everyone kills people.

02:01:39.620 No, there is a difference.

02:01:41.180 The United States-

02:01:41.980 Hardly a moral relative.

02:01:42.380 We don't have concentration camps.

02:01:44.320 We don't torture and murder people.

02:01:46.400 You look at China, where they've got a million prisoners in concentration camps.

02:01:50.420 You look at Putin, where he's got prisoners in Siberia.

02:01:53.360 He tortures and murders his political opponents.

02:01:56.080 Donald Trump doesn't do that.

02:01:57.120 America doesn't do that. 1.00

02:01:57.900 And by the way-

02:01:58.560 What are you even talking about?

02:01:59.360 Most other countries don't do that.

02:02:00.780 I see the game.

02:02:01.800 It's like, I'm distressed.

02:02:03.660 I'm distressed.

02:02:04.620 No, I'm responding with facts.

02:02:06.100 You don't like the facts.

02:02:07.820 I don't even know what facts you're talking about.

02:02:09.860 I'm not saying that Trump puts people in concentration camps.

02:02:12.260 I campaigned for Trump.

02:02:13.240 I love Trump.

02:02:13.760 So did I.

02:02:14.340 Okay.

02:02:14.800 So this has nothing to do with Trump.

02:02:16.160 I'm merely saying-

02:02:16.880 When you said every world leader kills people, it puts them all-

02:02:19.900 Just want more emphasis on what's happening inside the country.

02:02:22.100 That's it.

02:02:22.700 Is there a moral difference between America and our enemies?

02:02:25.860 Is there a moral difference between America?

02:02:27.040 You're joking of course.

02:02:27.320 And what is it?

02:02:28.560 Articulate it.

02:02:29.220 It's valuable to say why.

02:02:31.360 Why are we a better country founded on better values than China? 0.77

02:02:35.780 I'll tell you.

02:02:36.300 What's the difference?

02:02:36.660 I'll tell you why.

02:02:37.100 And I know-

02:02:37.760 Because the whole purpose of America is to protect the God-given rights that each person

02:02:42.140 possesses by virtue of being created by God.

02:02:44.700 Amen.

02:02:45.160 By being human.

02:02:46.480 That's the point of our founding documents.

02:02:48.340 And no other country articulates that in the way that we do.

02:02:52.540 And that's what I love about America.

02:02:54.960 My family's been here a long time.

02:02:56.220 I'm never leaving.

02:02:56.800 So I really love the country.

02:02:58.780 Despite going to a Russian grocery store, despite asking questions about AIPAC, I love

02:03:03.160 America is the truth.

02:03:04.400 And I love Trump.

02:03:05.940 So, but I just want more emphasis on America.

02:03:07.800 That's it.

02:03:08.980 I emphatically agree with America first.

02:03:13.440 I think Donald Trump does as well.

02:03:15.560 And I think his foreign policy has been vigorously protecting that.

02:03:19.540 And I agree with the president.

02:03:20.980 Good.

02:03:21.400 Well, I appreciate your taking all this time.

02:03:23.080 Sure.

02:03:23.660 And I know you didn't mean it.

02:03:24.760 Why do you call me those names?

02:03:27.960 Thank you, Senator.

02:03:28.600 We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day.

02:03:37.680 We know the people who run it.

02:03:38.600 Good people.

02:03:39.660 While you're here, do us a favor.

02:03:41.440 Hit follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode.

02:03:45.660 We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter.

02:03:48.780 Telling the truth always.

02:03:50.000 You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell.

02:03:53.400 We appreciate it.

02:03:54.360 Thanks for watching.

The Tucker Carlson Show - June 18, 2025

Tucker Confronts Ted Cruz on His Support for Regime Change in Iran

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript