The Tucker Carlson Show - Tucker Puts Piers Morgan’s Views on Free Speech to the Ultimate Test

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00:00:30.520 Whatever happened to Britain or the UK or England or whatever they're calling it?

00:00:36.080 We can't even agree on what it's called, but England.

00:00:39.280 The England that if you're over 50, you grew up learning about.

00:00:42.860 The England that controlled the world.

00:00:44.480 The England that ran the largest empire in human history.

00:00:48.360 At the end of World War I, Britain, which is an island in a pretty unhospitable climate,

00:00:54.960 that controlled literally a quarter of the Earth's surface.

00:00:59.900 And not controlled in the way the United States controls the rest of the world

00:01:05.300 with an implied threat or with economic ties to trade,

00:01:10.220 but actually controlled with administrators and people sitting at desks with eye shades,

00:01:15.700 counting things.

00:01:16.600 It's like actually controlled a quarter of the Earth's surface.

00:01:21.320 Way more than Rome, way more than the Mongols, way more than anybody ever or maybe in the future.

00:01:28.480 Ever.

00:01:29.900 Britain was the most powerful country in the history of the world.

00:01:32.320 And then 25 years later, it was this kind of sad, soggy welfare state,

00:01:36.760 which is to some extent what it still is, except maybe even a little bit worse.

00:01:42.340 What happened?

00:01:43.520 Well, there are a couple of levels I want you to think about this.

00:01:46.360 First is just geopolitical.

00:01:48.500 And I guess they spent a lot of money in these wars and the ruling,

00:01:51.920 half the class of Eton 1910 was killed in the trenches or whatever.

00:01:55.940 You can think of a lot of different ways to explain what happened to Britain.

00:02:00.660 The fact remains, however, they won the two biggest wars in human history.

00:02:04.200 They won, and yet they're still greatly diminished and to some extent humiliated.

00:02:09.420 It's like, what is that?

00:02:10.800 So again, the first can be described, the first explanation can be described

00:02:16.880 in economic terms.

00:02:19.700 Well, the United States took over.

00:02:21.100 The British Empire just moved west to its child, the U.S.

00:02:26.360 They just transferred the power and a lot of the gold to this new country,

00:02:29.940 which had its systems and some of its customs.

00:02:33.060 Okay.

00:02:34.340 But there's something kind of deeper, actually.

00:02:36.020 If that were the whole story, then Britain would still be recognizably Britain.

00:02:41.860 The English people would still be recognizably English.

00:02:44.880 They would just be not in charge anymore.

00:02:47.780 They would have less money and less power.

00:02:50.900 But the country would be, by any conventional measurement, thriving,

00:02:56.540 just not running the Bahamas and Hong Kong, you know, Pakistan.

00:03:01.720 But that's not what's happened, actually.

00:03:06.080 After winning the two biggest wars in human history, Britain has shrunken, not just physically,

00:03:12.280 but in some way that's hard to describe.

00:03:15.180 Its culture has changed.

00:03:17.840 Some might say has been destroyed, and it's become something completely different.

00:03:22.140 And what is that?

00:03:23.840 And by the way, why does it matter what it is?

00:03:25.480 Well, it matters because what's happened to Britain, to England, is also happening to many countries in the West.

00:03:35.680 Certainly, its heirs, the Anglosphere, and that specifically would be Australia, New Zealand, the United States, Canada, Ireland.

00:03:46.100 And it's happening to those countries, but it's also happening to the rest of Western Europe, all at the same time.

00:03:53.020 A bunch of different, profound, never-seen-before phenomenon are happening to all of those countries,

00:04:01.280 and again, including ours here in the United States.

00:04:04.420 So it's worth understanding what has happened to Britain.

00:04:07.200 So maybe the best image that describes it is the one that we're about to show you.

00:04:12.300 And in case there's no context in the tape, what you're watching is a woman being arrested outside of an abortion clinic.

00:04:19.660 And keep in mind as you watch this, she's not being arrested for throwing a firebomb, a petrol bomb,

00:04:25.420 through the window of this abortion clinic in the UK, or even for obstructing access to this abortion clinic.

00:04:31.960 No, she's being arrested and taken to jail for praying outside the abortion clinic.

00:04:38.720 Watch this.

00:04:40.240 Before I ask you any questions about what's going on today, I have to caution you, which is just your right,

00:04:44.640 which is you do not have to say anything.

00:04:46.340 It may harm your defense if you do not mention one question, something that you later are in court,

00:04:50.340 and anything you do certainly give you anything.

00:04:52.460 What are you here for today?

00:04:54.940 Physically, I'm just standing here.

00:04:56.700 Okay.

00:04:57.200 Why here, of all places?

00:04:58.520 I know you don't live nearby.

00:05:00.280 But this is an abortion something.

00:05:01.960 Okay, that's why you're standing here.

00:05:04.140 Is you standing here part of a protest?

00:05:06.100 No.

00:05:07.140 I'm not protesting.

00:05:08.020 Are you praying?

00:05:09.080 I might be praying in my head.

00:05:12.340 So I'll ask you once more, will you voluntarily come with us now to the police station for me to ask you some questions

00:05:17.860 about today and other days where there are allegations that you've broken public spaces protection?

00:05:24.620 If I've got a choice, then no.

00:05:26.600 Okay, well then you're under arrest against suspicion of failing to comply with the public spaces protection.

00:05:31.960 So what is that?

00:05:33.500 It's hard to argue that if your government is arresting people for praying that you're watching a political phenomenon.

00:05:43.800 Because, of course, praying is not simply a nonviolent act.

00:05:47.780 It's not even a physical act.

00:05:49.560 It can't possibly, at least in secular terms, affect outcomes or harm anyone.

00:05:56.080 Praying for people can never be a crime.

00:06:01.060 But it is a crime in Great Britain.

00:06:03.360 Literally a crime.

00:06:04.160 And the woman you saw is not the only person who's been arrested for doing it.

00:06:07.620 So clearly we're watching a spiritual phenomenon here.

00:06:10.100 I mean, there's sort of no arguing it once you see things like that.

00:06:13.360 But what is that spiritual phenomenon?

00:06:16.300 And what are its effects on the people of this country?

00:06:18.760 And before we go farther, we should just say that if you visit the UK, as it's now called,

00:06:23.860 or London, its capital and completely dominant city,

00:06:26.300 the first thing you'll notice is it's actually pretty nice.

00:06:28.740 London is, the nice parts of London are as nice or maybe even nicer than any city in the United States.

00:06:35.180 Certainly nicer than any city in Canada or Australia.

00:06:38.300 Much nicer, actually.

00:06:39.180 It's a great city filled with lots of happy people.

00:06:41.120 But broadly speaking, this country has changed really, really dramatically.

00:06:46.440 And it's changed in ways that are recognizable.

00:06:49.560 And here's what you recognize.

00:06:51.700 The people of Great Britain are going through a series of crises, and they're all internal.

00:06:59.960 Drug use, alcohol use, their appearance has changed.

00:07:04.600 People are no longer as well kept.

00:07:06.460 The streets, the landscape is not tidy anymore.

00:07:11.120 It's got lots of litter and graffiti in some places.

00:07:15.280 And to technocrats, these are not meaningful measures of anything.

00:07:18.300 Who cares if you've got graffiti?

00:07:19.740 Does that affect GDP?

00:07:22.260 Well, maybe, maybe not.

00:07:24.980 But it's definitely a reflection of how people feel about themselves.

00:07:28.920 People with self-respect do not tolerate public displays of disorder or filth or graffiti or litter because they care about themselves and their family.

00:07:41.520 And they understand intuitively, as every human being does, that once you allow chaos and filth in your immediate environment, you are diminished.

00:07:50.820 So you just don't allow that, and no healthy society does.

00:07:54.200 But all through the West, these are not just features.

00:07:57.120 They're defining features.

00:07:58.480 All Western cities are filled with litter and graffiti and people who look like they didn't bother to get dressed this morning but are instead wearing their pajamas in Walmart.

00:08:07.720 It's not just in your town, it's everywhere in what we refer to as the West.

00:08:14.400 The point that underlies all of this is a really obvious one that too few people say.

00:08:20.520 This is the behavior of a defeated people.

00:08:24.140 This is what it looks like when you lose.

00:08:26.780 This is what it looks like when you're on your way out to be replaced by somebody else.

00:08:30.940 This is what it looks like to be an American Indian.

00:08:34.600 Now, one thing nobody in the United States ever says about the American Indians except in the kind of pro forma white guilt way is these weren't just impressive people.

00:08:43.000 And no, they didn't write the Constitution before we did.

00:08:45.360 These were some of the most impressive people, most self-reliant, most dignified.

00:08:50.120 Read any account of early American settlers, people who are pushing West, who came into contact with Indians.

00:08:55.560 And yes, were often scalped and forced to eat their own genitals and roasted over open fires.

00:09:00.380 I mean, these were cruel people, but even the people who were in danger of being murdered by them respected them because the indigenous Americans had a great deal of self-respect.

00:09:13.020 They had what we call dignity.

00:09:15.360 And now, hundreds of years later, the opposite is true.

00:09:20.200 The poorest people in the United States are American Indians.

00:09:23.240 Why?

00:09:23.520 Because the federal government hasn't given them enough.

00:09:25.460 The federal government is completely in charge of the indigenous economy in the United States and has been for over 100 years.

00:09:34.200 And it hasn't worked.

00:09:36.980 American Indians are still the poorest.

00:09:39.220 Why?

00:09:39.600 Because the Iroquois and the Navajo weren't impressive?

00:09:42.160 No, they were the most impressive.

00:09:44.180 Again, read the account of anyone who dealt with them.

00:09:46.760 Even people who are dodging their arrows thought they were amazing people because they were.

00:09:50.680 And now, they are, by many measures, the saddest people in the United States.

00:09:55.780 Why is that?

00:09:57.380 Some inherent genetic predisposition to patheticness?

00:10:01.960 They couldn't deal with modernity?

00:10:04.120 Well, they probably could.

00:10:05.560 They were defeated.

00:10:07.580 They were defeated.

00:10:08.660 And in some deep, the deepest way, they wound up destroying themselves.

00:10:15.860 And it's not unique to them.

00:10:17.080 That's the point.

00:10:17.840 And just to be completely clear, all of this is observed with a great deal of sympathy, not scorn.

00:10:23.580 No one's mocking the American Indians.

00:10:25.300 Everyone should feel bad about it, for real.

00:10:27.180 Again, not in a silly white girl guilty way, but in a real way.

00:10:31.600 These are amazing people, greatly diminished.

00:10:34.100 And the reason it's worth remembering is the same thing is happening to the West.

00:10:39.500 So, the beauty of Thanksgiving is that it celebrates real food.

00:10:42.100 I mean, at the core of the holiday is actual food, not synthetic garbage, the kind that is almost irresistible.

00:10:48.820 So, wouldn't it be nice if the country embraced, if all of us embraced actual food during the rest of the year,

00:10:53.540 ditching your standard and truly disgusting American chip brands for chips that aren't terrible for you,

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00:11:01.680 That'd be a great place to start.

00:11:04.100 Vandy is about reviving real food, the kind your grandparents ate.

00:11:08.520 And they look pretty svelte, despite the camels they smoked.

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00:11:12.660 Because they ate food that wasn't filled with garbage.

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00:13:34.140 And it makes you realize, especially if you travel a lot, that the problem is not necessarily the immigrants.

00:13:42.160 The problem is what mass migration does to the people who already live there.

00:13:47.000 They're the victims of it in a way that, again, is hard to measure and sometimes hard to notice, but totally real.

00:13:55.060 So you walk through this city, London, and it's been completely transformed by immigration completely.

00:14:01.080 And the numbers are really, really clear.

00:14:02.440 A hundred years ago, it was 100% European white.

00:14:04.880 Now it's less than 40%.

00:14:07.160 Okay, that's massive, unprecedented demographic change.

00:14:10.720 Got it.

00:14:11.300 And the immigrant areas are absolutely poorer than the traditionally white English areas.

00:14:16.960 Absolutely.

00:14:17.560 There's just no question about it.

00:14:20.060 But wealth as measured by the government is not the only measurement.

00:14:25.320 Actually, and this is true in the United States too, lots of immigrants who have a lot less money than the native population seem a lot more balanced and happy.

00:14:36.000 Both because this is a huge upgrade for them, just in terms of like annual income and standard of living, but it's more than that.

00:14:42.900 They're not defeated.

00:14:44.460 They don't hate themselves.

00:14:47.120 And if you have traditional nationalist opinions in the United States, I can confirm this personally, you're never going to be stopped on the street and screamed at by some Guatemalan who's like, you are racist for having your views on immigration.

00:14:59.420 No, they'll probably agree with you, actually.

00:15:00.920 The only people who ever get mad at you are the people who already hate themselves.

00:15:06.500 And that's always famously some private equity wife or somebody who should be happy about how things are going because they're in the portion of the population that's benefiting from it, but they're not happy.

00:15:15.360 They're angry.

00:15:17.580 What is that?

00:15:20.020 That exact same thing is going on in this country.

00:15:24.760 Exact.

00:15:25.320 And it's part of a very recognizable syndrome, and it's the most destructive of all.

00:15:34.060 History is just filled with examples of people who get invaded and clubbed to death and have their women stolen from them, and they're fine.

00:15:43.580 They're fine.

00:15:45.660 It's the people who feel defeated inside who no longer exist.

00:15:51.120 And that is happening to the West.

00:15:53.140 And it's measurable.

00:15:57.120 What other society hates its own national symbols?

00:16:03.600 It's only happening in the West.

00:16:05.140 Only in Great Britain.

00:16:07.300 This is coming to be true in the United States.

00:16:09.320 It's already true in Canada and Australia.

00:16:11.320 What other country finds it embarrassing to fly their national flag?

00:16:16.000 What are you saying if that embarrasses you?

00:16:18.060 You don't hate the flag.

00:16:19.180 You hate yourself.

00:16:20.060 And it's obvious because people who have dignity, self-respect, who believe in their own civilization, want to continue it.

00:16:29.460 How do you do that?

00:16:31.000 By talking about it a lot?

00:16:32.560 No.

00:16:33.420 By continuing it through reproduction.

00:16:35.460 No one is preventing the West from reproducing.

00:16:40.000 And people who come up with these conspiracy theories like, oh, they're doing it.

00:16:43.660 No, we're doing it to ourselves.

00:16:47.360 What else is abortion?

00:16:49.380 It's not empowering for women.

00:16:51.320 Of course not.

00:16:51.820 That's absurd.

00:16:52.620 Anyone who believes that is an idiot.

00:16:55.280 Abortion is the way to stop people from reproducing.

00:16:57.640 So is birth control, by the way.

00:16:59.760 Of course.

00:17:00.420 So is convincing people that their dumb job is more important than having kids.

00:17:04.780 It's not.

00:17:05.340 It never will be.

00:17:06.600 Any person who can get clarity for a second will recognize that.

00:17:09.860 It's only about stopping you from having more of you.

00:17:14.520 And is there anything that's a clearer, crystal clear representation of how you feel about yourself and how you feel about having kids?

00:17:24.940 And by the way, it's not just because they're selfish and they want to go on vacation and don't want to pay for children or they're worried about how much it might cost.

00:17:32.480 Notice that none of these impoverished immigrants living on SNAP and housing subsidies, they don't seem worried about it at all.

00:17:37.580 Because they know it'll be fine.

00:17:40.820 By the way, most of the time it will be fine.

00:17:44.340 They're having kids when much more affluent natives are not because they believe in themselves and their culture, their civilization.

00:17:54.020 They'd like to see it continue.

00:17:55.080 It's the most basic of all human desires.

00:17:57.180 So here in Great Britain, which has about a 40% abortion rate, 40% of all conceived children are killed.

00:18:06.040 Who's doing that?

00:18:08.040 It's not the immigrants.

00:18:09.540 Because they don't hate themselves.

00:18:11.940 They're not defeated.

00:18:12.960 They're ascendant.

00:18:15.200 And so they can see the future.

00:18:16.300 They know that they may not live to experience it.

00:18:20.960 But they're still fully human.

00:18:23.220 And they know you plant the tree not because you can bask in its shade, but because your grandchildren will.

00:18:27.760 This is the most obvious of all human instincts and the most basic.

00:18:32.300 But the native population in Britain is not debating abortion because it's not even a debate here.

00:18:37.260 Everyone agrees it's just an affirmative good, of course, to eliminate your own people.

00:18:40.660 Absolutely.

00:18:42.100 And again, no one's making them do this.

00:18:43.520 They've decided to do it themselves.

00:18:46.420 But now their most enthusiastic campaign is for state-sponsored suicide.

00:18:53.620 They've already done this in Canada.

00:18:55.400 It'll come to the United States.

00:18:57.100 What is that?

00:18:58.760 That's an entire people saying we should exit the stage.

00:19:03.540 Our time is done.

00:19:05.640 It's over.

00:19:06.600 Let's go.

00:19:07.860 Someone else will take our place.

00:19:09.340 Not the first time that's ever happened.

00:19:11.380 This is what defeated people do.

00:19:13.220 This is what happens when you break people inside.

00:19:16.220 And maybe it'll just reach its terminus.

00:19:18.740 Maybe there's no way to stop it.

00:19:21.040 The Great Replacement Theory.

00:19:22.280 Yeah.

00:19:23.160 Theory.

00:19:24.060 Okay.

00:19:25.180 No, it's the realest thing there is.

00:19:27.600 And it's happening not because unseen hands are orchestrating it, though they are, but because the native peoples of all these countries are participating in it enthusiastically and then enforcing its rules against anyone who questions it.

00:19:43.540 So in Great Britain, if you were to say, wait, what the hell is this?

00:19:47.020 This looks nothing like the country I grew up in.

00:19:49.300 Guess who's going to arrest you?

00:19:51.560 Your fellow Britons?

00:19:53.120 The ones whose great-grandparents lived here?

00:19:55.380 The whites?

00:19:56.020 They're the ones enforcing this.

00:19:59.060 They're the ones totally determined to eliminate themselves.

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00:22:32.540 So it's with these questions in mind that we decided to sit down with Piers Morgan.

00:22:37.200 Piers Morgan's somebody known for a long time.

00:22:39.220 Cable news host.

00:22:40.180 Had a debate with him last year.

00:22:43.660 Ran into him in an elevator in the Middle East.

00:22:46.240 And decided to sit down and had a really spirited and interesting conversation with him.

00:22:50.440 In which I attacked his country with the fury of someone who secretly loves the country and hates what it's become.

00:22:58.140 And so we're back here in his hometown.

00:23:00.380 And decided to have this conversation.

00:23:02.220 And it follows in just a second.

00:23:03.540 But before it begins, I just want to be super clear about something.

00:23:06.800 Piers Morgan is clearly wedded.

00:23:08.400 Piers Morgan has decided to remain wedded to the neoliberal version of the world where you're not allowed to say certain things.

00:23:14.020 And you have to repeat certain pieties.

00:23:15.580 And it's all pretty embarrassing, obviously.

00:23:18.060 But in fairness, Piers Morgan has single-handedly done more for free speech, which is disappearing in Great Britain, than any other Britain.

00:23:25.780 He has done more for free speech than any other person in this entire country.

00:23:30.840 I just want to say this out loud because it's absolutely true.

00:23:33.180 And he's done it the old-fashioned way by allowing other people onto his platform, onto his show, to debate people who have no other venue to say what they think.

00:23:44.680 And you may disagree with 50% and agree with the other 50%.

00:23:47.920 It doesn't even matter.

00:23:49.120 That debate, the real debate about issues that really matter, that nobody else in this country is allowed to talk about, are taking place at scale on Piers Morgan's show.

00:23:58.280 So if you watch this and you think, Piers Morgan has no idea what side is up, why is he defending the indefensible?

00:24:04.420 Keep in mind that here, and this is an authoritarian country where disagreement is no longer allowed, you go to jail for it.

00:24:11.040 By the thousands, people go to jail for it every year.

00:24:13.960 He alone is keeping it open.

00:24:15.780 So God bless Piers Morgan.

00:24:16.780 With that, here's Piers Morgan.

00:24:18.700 Piers, thanks for doing this.

00:24:19.720 Welcome.

00:24:20.080 For taking time.

00:24:20.700 Welcome to my city.

00:24:22.640 Which I've been so mean to, including in a conversation with you last winter in the Middle East.

00:24:27.460 I'm attacking Great Britain, and I just want to apologize and tell you the truth about how I feel, which is I think that English culture and civilization is the highest level ever achieved by man in history.

00:24:37.920 I really believe that.

00:24:39.560 Everything about it, it's religion, it's language, it's literature.

00:24:43.540 We've, American societies never produce literature.

00:24:46.640 I'm embarrassed to say, like, what the Brits produced.

00:24:49.040 And so it was out of sadness and frustration and a sense of connection to your civilization that I went on the rant about how much I hate it.

00:24:58.360 But it was hate born of frustrated love and concern.

00:25:02.540 I'm just amazed you're here alive.

00:25:04.580 I didn't think you'd get here.

00:25:05.880 Well, they're so passive now, and everyone's like, bisexual, what are they going to do to me?

00:25:09.840 Nothing.

00:25:10.820 But I just want to add, and I know you love it.

00:25:14.180 You're a product of it.

00:25:15.440 What is it?

00:25:16.200 How would you describe English culture?

00:25:19.540 I would say it's not as bad as many Americans think it is.

00:25:23.700 And it's not as good as many people here, when they launch impassioned defences of our country and our culture and the way things have gone, would like to pretend it is.

00:25:34.360 It's kind of somewhere in the middle.

00:25:35.860 There's definitely been a significant change in the fabric of the country, in the makeup of the country, in the types of people who've come here, the volume of people who've come here.

00:25:46.740 That's obviously had an effect on what this country is.

00:25:50.500 Now, the debate to be had is whether this has been, in totality, a force for good or bad.

00:25:57.240 And I took your views, your strident views about it when we met in Saudi.

00:26:02.000 And I pushed back quite hard, because I live here half of the year, at least, most of that time in London.

00:26:08.580 It's always been a very multicultural city.

00:26:11.220 There's no doubt about that.

00:26:12.420 And I don't walk the streets as Tommy Robinson would like to do.

00:26:14.660 It has not always been a multicultural.

00:26:16.280 I actually pulled the numbers.

00:26:17.420 It is not.

00:26:18.040 In my life.

00:26:18.520 It was very recent.

00:26:19.240 Yeah, maybe right after you were born.

00:26:20.800 In my lifetime.

00:26:21.460 I was born in the mid-60s.

00:26:22.820 But, you know, the way Tommy Robinson, who has a big following in America, the way he talks about it is not something I recognize.

00:26:28.720 Having said that, as I've always said about him, there are issues that he's raised which are perfectly legitimate.

00:26:34.380 The biggest one is population.

00:26:36.380 You know, in the 50s, we had a population of just under 50 million people.

00:26:39.520 And a lot of the infrastructure, like the National Health Service, the NHS, once lauded as the greatest health system in the world, now has to do with a population of nearly 70 million.

00:26:49.340 That is a dramatic increase in the volume of people in this country.

00:26:52.560 And the simple truth right now is our public services are creaking at the seams, and in some cases, like the NHS, pretty well at breaking point.

00:27:02.140 And that is why there is so much agitation about the simultaneous ongoing issues with immigration, both illegal, with this ridiculous farce of these small boats popping up on the south coast from a channel from France, all the time.

00:27:19.700 When the weather's good, they just stream in hundreds, sometimes thousands a week illegally into the country.

00:27:25.000 But also legal migration and how we've abjectly mishandled that since really the turn of the century.

00:27:30.720 You can chart it back to the Tony Blair years, when they pretty well opened the gates to everyone in Eastern Europe.

00:27:37.540 Way too many people came in way too fast.

00:27:40.160 And then after that, there's just been a complete lack of any form of control.

00:27:44.180 And we now have a situation where they've had to try and put the brakes on legal migration coming in.

00:27:50.960 Because two years ago, we had a net migration in this country of nearly a million people.

00:27:55.460 Now, it's not racist, as some people are trying to brand it, to say that that is alarming.

00:28:01.800 A country like ours, if you don't have an effective border, if you have 50,000, 60,000 people a year coming in as they are illegally on these boats,

00:28:09.460 and then you have a net migration of legal migrants coming in, of nearly a million people,

00:28:15.820 the already crumbling infrastructure is going to come under, obviously, enormously higher pressure.

00:28:22.640 So it's been a series of governments, left and right, I have to say,

00:28:26.680 starting with the Blair government, with what they did with Eastern Europe,

00:28:29.980 and then coming forward to successive conservative governments,

00:28:32.580 and now the current Labour government, all of whom, in my opinion, have handled this so badly

00:28:39.000 that inevitably we now have a lot of people in the country going, what the hell is going on?

00:28:43.800 I wonder, though, I mean, everything you said is so clearly true,

00:28:46.740 and it was Tony Blair, really the lowest, probably tied with Boris,

00:28:51.400 but really one of the worst prime ministers, leaders of any country ever.

00:28:54.200 But I wonder, I often hear people say, well, it's about the NHS, National Health Service,

00:28:59.500 it's about the roads, it's about, you know, NHS is like a very new creation,

00:29:05.280 it's a post-war creation, it was never going to work, it's never worked anywhere,

00:29:09.160 the Brits were so kind of pathetically proud of it, but it was, the whole thing is...

00:29:12.240 It did work.

00:29:13.040 But for a time, that always worked for a time.

00:29:15.740 By the way, if you walk out of here and you fall over and you break your leg,

00:29:19.000 you'll get treatment quickly.

00:29:19.800 That's great, but the health outcomes were never better than the United States,

00:29:23.360 so it didn't actually work.

00:29:25.020 But whatever, you could argue with it, but that is...

00:29:26.360 Well, the cost of it.

00:29:27.300 But what's so sad is that for your whole life, you've been told that,

00:29:31.960 what is Britain, what is this project about?

00:29:34.060 It's about the National Health Service?

00:29:37.100 I mean, that's kind of aiming a little low.

00:29:39.540 Like, who cares about some bureaucratic structure?

00:29:41.920 What about England?

00:29:43.520 What about the culture?

00:29:44.800 Like, so in my mind, as a P.G. Woodhouse reader, lifelong,

00:29:48.500 well, self-restraint, duty, courage.

00:29:53.360 Like, patriotism rooted in your religious faith.

00:29:58.080 Our Lord, the King, a phrase that was common until recently.

00:30:01.920 All of that seems to be gone.

00:30:03.640 Well, we're still a very majority Christian country, right?

00:30:08.280 Still 40-odd percent of the country are Christians, right?

00:30:12.700 That's a fact.

00:30:14.140 So when I hear America...

00:30:15.020 Whatever that means.

00:30:15.960 I mean, you get arrested for praying outside an abortion clinic,

00:30:19.060 that's not a Christian country.

00:30:19.960 Well, okay, there are nearly 50% of the country who identify as Christian.

00:30:25.140 The more concerning thing for those who have faith

00:30:28.880 is that nearly 40% now have no religious belief whatsoever, right?

00:30:33.780 Right.

00:30:34.220 Then we have a lot of other religions.

00:30:36.060 There's a slight amplification of, for example,

00:30:38.340 the number of Muslims in the country.

00:30:40.100 I agree.

00:30:40.600 There are nearly 4 million Muslims in the country.

00:30:43.000 And that represents about 6% of the population.

00:30:48.120 But 43 or 4% of the population are still Christian.

00:30:51.800 So I do think, again, that the over-amplification of the Islam problem,

00:30:58.920 as people put it, or the Muslim problem, has been massively overstated.

00:31:03.000 Well, that's an op, obviously.

00:31:04.760 Yeah.

00:31:05.140 Hate the Muslims.

00:31:06.180 No, we know where that's coming from, obviously.

00:31:08.200 I don't like it.

00:31:08.860 I hate it.

00:31:09.760 In my high street alone, in West London,

00:31:13.120 most of the businesses would have Muslim employees there.

00:31:16.140 But also, how is hate the Muslims better than hate the Christians or hate the Jews?

00:31:20.820 It's not.

00:31:20.920 It's all the same.

00:31:21.300 No, it's the same.

00:31:22.260 And I've heard you say, and this is the point I come from,

00:31:26.020 hatred is hatred is hatred.

00:31:28.160 I totally agree.

00:31:28.860 It doesn't matter who you're hating.

00:31:30.400 The moment you're in the hate game,

00:31:32.460 then I think you're losing whatever argument it is you're trying to have.

00:31:34.860 I totally agree.

00:31:35.860 But moving off from hate and getting back to the world I live in,

00:31:39.720 which is fear and distrust and gut-level loathing,

00:31:42.720 it's the secular people who are the problem.

00:31:45.940 I've never had an argument with an actual Muslim.

00:31:48.900 I'm from Bangladesh.

00:31:49.700 I'm a Muslim.

00:31:50.800 I'd probably agree on a lot.

00:31:52.220 It's the secular self-hating whites that stand up from the table

00:31:55.580 and leave when I'm meeting with them here.

00:31:57.120 Just saying.

00:31:57.880 And that's true in my country, too.

00:31:59.360 But believe I said, I just sort of wonder.

00:32:01.240 So I'm not hating on the Muslims at all.

00:32:03.260 They're bad Muslims.

00:32:04.500 They're bad everybody.

00:32:06.080 I just think a country is more than its bureaucratic systems

00:32:09.680 and certainly more than the NHS,

00:32:11.340 which I will never think is impressive, sorry.

00:32:14.200 Or your metric system, which is pathetic.

00:32:15.680 I do think you're wrong about that.

00:32:17.300 Maybe.

00:32:17.920 But you're not wrong about the state of it now.

00:32:21.280 I'll give an example.

00:32:22.740 What wouldn't have happened in the 60s and 70s with the NHS

00:32:26.580 is what happened to both my parents recently.

00:32:29.360 So my mother had a heart attack.

00:32:30.880 Right.

00:32:31.160 And ended up being put on a trolley in an accident and emergency unit,

00:32:37.100 but out on the corridor with 30 other people on trolleys.

00:32:41.180 It was Dickensian.

00:32:42.520 This was like a third world country.

00:32:44.240 And she got hardly any treatment at all while she was there.

00:32:48.180 Now, when she eventually got up, and this is the apex of the NHS for me laid bare,

00:32:53.200 when she eventually got into the heart unit, she got incredible treatment on the NHS.

00:32:58.280 Didn't cost her anything.

00:32:59.480 She got fixed up and repaired.

00:33:01.380 Turned out she had a blocked artery, and she was home in 48 hours and was great.

00:33:05.660 My father broke six ribs recently.

00:33:07.380 Again, the same story.

00:33:09.260 Just kept waiting on trolleys and so on.

00:33:11.020 This is going on all the time.

00:33:12.660 I couldn't...

00:33:13.020 Because it cannot deal with the volume of...

00:33:14.680 We have the same problem in our country.

00:33:16.260 All the community hospitals are closing, right?

00:33:18.640 And our emergency rooms are unusable because of illegal immigration.

00:33:21.500 I agree with you completely.

00:33:23.020 I'm just saying, if you have a country whose main source of pride is its healthcare system...

00:33:27.040 I don't think it is.

00:33:27.680 Really? Because in the 50 years I've been coming here, no matter what you say,

00:33:31.900 they're like, have you heard about our healthcare system?

00:33:33.740 It's like, I thought you were about the greater glory of God

00:33:37.160 and, like, subduing the world for civilization and the English language and our literature and our history.

00:33:41.600 I certainly think we're about...

00:33:42.620 Listen, we'd certainly...

00:33:44.160 I checked a few stats on the way here.

00:33:46.220 Yeah.

00:33:46.580 Oh, I bet you did.

00:33:48.220 So did I.

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00:34:48.020 Thanksgiving is upon us.

00:34:50.620 Great news for taste buds.

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00:34:56.560 Not that I would know.

00:34:58.280 So you're going to have all kinds of food right in front of you.

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00:35:02.800 You're going to be snacking all day long and you probably will be.

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00:36:13.360 Before they're gone, they will be.

00:36:14.880 So you've probably got Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile.

00:36:18.380 That means you are definitely way overpaying for wireless service.

00:36:21.500 And we're not just saying that.

00:36:22.820 It happens for a reason.

00:36:24.060 When you join a massive cell phone company, you get charter support everything that their

00:36:28.940 operation is doing.

00:36:30.080 And that's a lot.

00:36:31.180 Big corporate programs, huge HR departments, thousands of retail stores you're never going

00:36:37.300 to visit.

00:36:37.660 You think your money is going toward getting better cell service, 5G service, but it's

00:36:42.060 not.

00:36:43.200 So the wireless company we use, PureTalk, is very different.

00:36:45.640 They use the exact same cell network as the companies we just mentioned, but they don't

00:36:50.480 do any of the other garbage.

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00:37:14.320 For example, we back way above our strength in things like music.

00:37:19.020 Okay.

00:37:19.580 Of the eight biggest selling artists in music history, I think I'm right in saying that five

00:37:25.240 of them have come from the UK.

00:37:26.260 I believe that.

00:37:27.300 From the Beatles to Elton John.

00:37:28.980 They're very musical people, as we often say.

00:37:31.180 We're a very artistic people.

00:37:32.700 We're a very scientific people.

00:37:34.260 Yes.

00:37:34.500 We lead the world, actually.

00:37:36.100 A lot of our universities are in the top 10 in the world.

00:37:38.920 So comparative to our size, which is about a sixth of the size of the United States,

00:37:43.400 maybe between, maybe fifth and sixth.

00:37:46.480 But comparative to our size, we continue in many areas to bat above our population strength.

00:37:52.180 The Brits in the Middle East, in Dubai specifically, are like one of the engines of the economy.

00:37:57.440 They're amazing people.

00:37:58.520 I'm actually one of them.

00:37:59.640 Half.

00:38:00.080 So I agree.

00:38:01.520 You'll never get me to say the Brits aren't unusual.

00:38:03.560 But the qualities you cited, funny enough, that does resonate with me.

00:38:07.480 We have lost a lot of the qualities, I think, collectively as a country, which did make this

00:38:12.380 country great.

00:38:13.520 That's what I'm saying.

00:38:14.320 Yeah, but I agree with you about that, because I do think that it's become a bad thing to

00:38:19.140 be patriotic about our country.

00:38:20.920 There's a huge war about waving the Union Jack flag.

00:38:24.300 I never see that war raging in the same way in America, right?

00:38:27.920 There's a lot of, I mean, I'll give you an example.

00:38:29.840 But it will.

00:38:30.500 That's why I'm doing this interview.

00:38:32.220 Well, it may well, yeah.

00:38:33.260 It was very interesting when I did Celebrity Apprentice.

00:38:36.680 It's where I met Donald Trump.

00:38:38.660 And this was back in 2008.

00:38:40.620 And the organization that I raised money for, because it was a charitable thing, you had

00:38:46.740 to have a charity, was the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund.

00:38:49.900 And they had a base down in San Antonio.

00:38:51.840 So I went down there.

00:38:53.100 And I remember distinctly coming off the plane and seeing a load of people with flags.

00:38:59.240 And I couldn't work out what was happening.

00:39:01.000 I knew it wasn't for me.

00:39:02.400 American flags.

00:39:03.120 And it turned out that they were there greeting every single serviceman and woman who came

00:39:08.160 off the planes from whichever war zone they'd come from, because there was a big center

00:39:12.800 there, a lot of military service people living in San Antonio, a lot of them also being treated

00:39:17.900 for serious injuries and so on.

00:39:19.480 And they were just applauding and thanking them for their service as they came off these

00:39:23.280 planes.

00:39:23.980 You'd never see that anywhere in the UK.

00:39:25.920 That just doesn't exist as a concept to do that.

00:39:28.700 I was very struck by that.

00:39:29.880 And I do think America generally is a lot more proudly patriotic than we've become.

00:39:37.940 We've become almost ashamed of being British in a way that I don't like.

00:39:41.120 I think we should be prouder of ourselves and prouder of what we've achieved and prouder

00:39:44.600 of what we could be.

00:39:46.080 But one of the reasons why people don't feel that pride, I think, is because we've had a

00:39:50.160 succession of what I would say are pretty hopeless politicians who dragged us into a place

00:39:55.600 where people don't like it.

00:39:56.580 I get it.

00:39:57.620 But maybe you've got those politicians because the people hate themselves.

00:40:01.220 I don't think we hate ourselves.

00:40:02.200 We're just-

00:40:02.780 Really?

00:40:03.260 No, I think we've had a shockingly mediocre tier of politicians.

00:40:07.080 But I mean, the sort of increase in British masochism, which has famously been part of

00:40:12.840 your sexual retinue for centuries, came me more.

00:40:17.260 No, that's just true.

00:40:20.100 As you well know, I don't know a Brit.

00:40:22.740 You Americans love a bit of spanky.

00:40:24.100 Come on, you know you do.

00:40:25.180 No, not in the boarding school way.

00:40:26.600 But anyway, whatever the point is, that has increased dramatically since the Second World

00:40:32.640 War.

00:40:33.240 And I have done a couple of segments on the Second World War that have been very kind

00:40:37.980 of shallow and not even really talking about the details or whatever.

00:40:41.440 You're a holocaustist.

00:40:42.260 Obviously, I'm not.

00:40:44.000 Whatever that means.

00:40:45.160 Hitler killed a ton of Jews.

00:40:47.360 That's terrible.

00:40:49.300 So that's been a diversion, really, that specific conversation from a much more important broader

00:40:55.000 conversation about what that war did to the West.

00:40:57.500 And I think it's totally objectively fair to say the West, specifically by which I mean

00:41:03.120 your country, which is really the seat of the West, has been in decline since the war.

00:41:08.960 So like, what is that?

00:41:10.120 Do you know?

00:41:11.580 I mean, I wouldn't say it's been in decline since the war.

00:41:13.940 There was a lot of recovery after the war.

00:41:15.780 It was a devastating war.

00:41:16.920 I mean, one of the most extraordinary aspects of that war is that Winston Churchill, who

00:41:22.360 many people here to this day believe pretty well single-handedly rallied the morale of

00:41:27.700 the people here to help us defeat the Nazis, albeit with obviously America's help, that

00:41:33.360 he, in the end, at the end of the war, he got thrown out of office because so many people

00:41:36.940 came back to a really bad lifestyle, a lot of impoverishment, a lot of homelessness and

00:41:43.260 so on.

00:41:43.680 Well, maybe were there other reasons?

00:41:45.040 No, no, that was why they took it out.

00:41:46.660 Did Germany attack you first?

00:41:48.700 Is that what happened?

00:41:49.800 What do you mean?

00:41:50.860 Did Germany attack Britain?

00:41:51.980 Is that how you got into a war with Germany?

00:41:54.880 Germany attacked Poland.

00:41:56.760 Oh, but not the UK?

00:41:58.180 No.

00:41:58.720 Oh, okay.

00:41:59.300 Because that does get lost.

00:42:01.020 So you voluntarily joined the war?

00:42:03.200 Yes.

00:42:03.720 Okay, right.

00:42:04.980 I'm not defending Hitler, of course, but it's just a fact that you weren't attacked.

00:42:09.040 So when you say that Churchill saved Britain, well, Britain got into the war voluntarily.

00:42:16.860 Well, voluntarily.

00:42:18.220 Well, what do you mean?

00:42:19.220 Well, one of our neighboring European countries was attacked.

00:42:22.420 And it was quite clear that Adolf Hitler and the Nazis wanted to take over Europe.

00:42:27.660 This was an existential threat to Europe and therefore to the UK.

00:42:31.320 So you're arguing that he would have come for the UK?

00:42:34.540 100%.

00:42:34.900 Even though your politicians and he and there's like not one person who was saying that in 1939-40.

00:42:41.980 No, Neville Chamberlain wasn't because he totally misread what was going on.

00:42:45.360 Winston Churchill completely read correctly what was going on and came out of the wilderness

00:42:49.040 to actually come and save us.

00:42:51.360 I think without him-

00:42:52.140 I think you signed a treaty with Poland that locked you into a course of action that destroyed

00:42:56.160 your country.

00:42:56.740 I'm just saying.

00:42:57.100 You don't honestly think the Nazis would have stopped at Poland?

00:42:59.460 I have no idea.

00:43:01.320 I'm just saying.

00:43:01.880 Yes, you do, Tucker.

00:43:02.660 Come on.

00:43:04.180 Look, I'm just going by what contemporaneous sources said.

00:43:08.320 I have no idea.

00:43:09.720 Hitler invaded Russia.

00:43:11.140 So obviously that's deranged and incredibly destructive.

00:43:14.800 So I don't know is the truth.

00:43:16.860 He was focused on communism.

00:43:18.720 No one doubts that.

00:43:20.120 This was not a communist country.

00:43:21.160 But I'm just saying Britain voluntarily joined the war.

00:43:24.360 It was a war that you were not involved in and you got in.

00:43:26.860 But my question is, why did it destroy Britain?

00:43:30.620 I don't understand.

00:43:31.640 As the victor nation-

00:43:32.780 Why didn't you destroy Britain?

00:43:33.860 Well, look outside.

00:43:35.560 Look outside.

00:43:36.180 We're in the city of London.

00:43:37.160 Hang on.

00:43:38.260 There's Tower Bridge.

00:43:39.260 There's the Tower of London.

00:43:40.880 Magnificent office blocks here.

00:43:41.520 Well, it changed London.

00:43:43.220 Why do you look at this and see a wrecked country?

00:43:45.680 I don't.

00:43:46.340 Well, I don't see an English country.

00:43:47.820 So we're in the city of London now.

00:43:49.220 What do you mean by that?

00:43:50.860 It's not, well, people whose ancestors built Stonehenge are not here anymore.

00:43:55.040 So the city of London is 36% white.

00:43:57.140 And that's happened in the last, I don't know, 40 years.

00:43:59.820 But England is about 70% white.

00:44:03.100 England.

00:44:03.880 Yes.

00:44:04.080 Okay.

00:44:04.580 Well, it was 99% in 1945.

00:44:07.500 Okay.

00:44:07.880 So we've evolved.

00:44:09.480 But you're on the way to becoming the minority in the country.

00:44:12.100 So no one wants to say that.

00:44:13.260 I think you can get arrested for saying that here.

00:44:14.980 Well, no.

00:44:15.360 That's not white supremacy.

00:44:16.440 This is the indigenous population of the country.

00:44:18.600 Well, it's a statistical fact that I think by 2100, we will be a minority white country.

00:44:26.920 2063, as of today.

00:44:28.400 Well, I read a bit later.

00:44:29.560 But these are dynamic numbers, so they change.

00:44:31.580 Here's my question for you.

00:44:32.840 So what?

00:44:34.260 Well, let me refer to the beginning of our conversation when you said that the people

00:44:38.520 who live in a country define the character of that country.

00:44:40.840 And then you said, yes, all the things for which we were famous and in which we had pride,

00:44:45.440 like our stoicism, our concern for others, our tidiness, the cleanest country in the

00:44:51.240 world now, it's pretty filthy.

00:44:53.040 All those things change when you get new people moving there.

00:44:55.980 You said that.

00:44:56.740 I mean, you're the racist, not me.

00:44:58.060 So I'm just using, I'm using the parameters that you said.

00:45:01.360 And I'm saying-

00:45:02.300 I did not say that that was down to non-white people coming to the country.

00:45:07.880 Well, that's who lived here.

00:45:08.580 I don't believe that.

00:45:10.100 No, but that's what you said.

00:45:11.520 No, I said there was creaking pressure on public services coming from the increased

00:45:16.280 population.

00:45:16.320 But you also, maybe foolishly admitted the truth.

00:45:18.900 You could get arrested for this, so I know the stakes are high.

00:45:21.120 But you said that when the people who live in a country change, so does the culture,

00:45:25.720 which is like the most obvious.

00:45:26.860 It's like when it rains out, it gets wet.

00:45:28.260 That's not a controversial observation, but it's illegal here because it is true.

00:45:32.600 And my only point is not against, I've already said, I like the Bangladeshis better than

00:45:37.220 I like the liberal whites in your country a lot more.

00:45:39.280 They've never yelled at me.

00:45:40.140 I'm not attacking them.

00:45:42.460 I'm just saying the things that made Britain, Britain, England, England.

00:45:45.700 Is there still an England?

00:45:46.580 I have no idea.

00:45:48.120 Those are going away because there are different people living here.

00:45:50.620 And if you think that those are good things in the same way that the Swedes or the Chinese

00:45:54.080 or the people in Burundi and Chad, they like their culture.

00:45:58.660 It's their ancestors' culture.

00:45:59.720 And now it's gone.

00:46:00.380 And like, why can't we say that's bad?

00:46:02.440 Well, because you may think it's bad.

00:46:04.580 It's good?

00:46:05.360 I love living in a very multicultural country.

00:46:07.400 But you're rich.

00:46:08.120 I mean, you go to the white parts of London, they're exactly the same as they were when

00:46:12.200 I was a child.

00:46:12.780 They've been coming here for 50 years.

00:46:13.760 They're exactly the same.

00:46:14.580 What they've been saying is exactly the same.

00:46:15.660 Which do you think is a white part of London?

00:46:17.840 I'm not going to tell you.

00:46:18.920 Well, that's a little test for you.

00:46:20.520 Which area of London do you think is white?

00:46:22.520 The one I'm staying in right now.

00:46:24.160 The one where my relatives live.

00:46:25.740 Where?

00:46:25.900 I'm not going to say.

00:46:28.260 No, you don't want to say because you know that I'll immediately say, come on.

00:46:30.980 There's loads of non-white people living there.

00:46:32.740 There's no-

00:46:33.140 By the way, I'm not against non-whites.

00:46:35.040 There's no exclusively white area around there.

00:46:36.940 Okay.

00:46:37.560 There's not.

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00:49:46.500 This Christmas.

00:49:47.220 I am not now, nor have I ever been.

00:49:49.400 And let me just restate, I think I have a lot more in common with the Pakistani cab driver

00:49:55.920 than I do with the average guardian staffer who's white.

00:50:00.880 I just want to be clear.

00:50:01.600 You're inferring that the more multicultural...

00:50:02.920 I'm not inferring anything.

00:50:04.380 You're referring to the more multicultural that Britain has become in terms of other ethnicities

00:50:08.980 coming to live here, then the worse it's got.

00:50:11.780 And I'm saying those two things, in my view, are not automatically linked.

00:50:17.060 There are lots of white people who behave very badly in this country.

00:50:19.880 Well, I've met them, and they yell at me.

00:50:22.100 So yes, just for the fifth time, I have more in common with the sincerely religious Pakistani

00:50:29.580 cab driver than I do with anyone who works at the Times of London.

00:50:32.700 That is just a fact.

00:50:34.040 I don't like those people.

00:50:35.100 I don't want to eat with them.

00:50:36.000 And they're white.

00:50:37.060 So all true.

00:50:38.740 All I'm saying is the qualities that made Britain the greatest country in the world were linked

00:50:43.860 directly to the people who live here.

00:50:45.700 And so, of course, by definition, multicultural means less of some cultures because there's

00:50:51.740 dilution of the dominant culture.

00:50:53.380 And you've conceded that already.

00:50:54.520 There are lots of people who are non-white, who've been born and raised in this country,

00:50:58.920 who've contributed brilliantly to the success of this country, who've risen to the top

00:51:04.800 positions in top industries, whether it's music or arts.

00:51:07.680 So defensive.

00:51:08.760 I'm not attacking the non-whites.

00:51:10.860 Because you're worried about getting arrested.

00:51:12.520 I get it.

00:51:13.120 I'm not worried about being arrested.

00:51:14.460 When they rush in the door with no guns, little bobbies with their sticks.

00:51:17.880 They might if they know you're here.

00:51:19.640 Probably.

00:51:20.240 I'm not worried about being arrested.

00:51:20.980 I got hassled at your airport again.

00:51:23.080 Really?

00:51:23.460 Yeah, always.

00:51:24.520 Well, for being Tucker Carlson.

00:51:26.200 You know, we don't know.

00:51:27.160 It's just, it's the AI, I guess.

00:51:29.440 But.

00:51:29.780 No, wait, I love that.

00:51:30.460 What happened to you?

00:51:31.260 You know, I was like, go see the attendant.

00:51:33.180 And by the way, the attendant was some Pakistani woman who's like, oh, we're so glad you're here.

00:51:39.020 Which I don't think I would have gotten from the liberal white lady.

00:51:42.000 So again, once again, I'm not attacking anyone on the basis of their race.

00:51:46.120 But you're saying that our culture has changed because we've had other cultures come here.

00:51:50.160 Is that your position?

00:51:51.340 Well, it's not my position.

00:51:52.260 It's a fact.

00:51:53.000 And you just said at the beginning.

00:51:54.520 I think.

00:51:55.120 So it's better.

00:51:55.900 So what about British culture didn't you like and has been improved by new cultures?

00:52:00.620 Oh, not both.

00:52:01.860 Tell me, what didn't you like before?

00:52:03.060 What are you glad is gone from the Britain you grew up in?

00:52:05.020 Let me tell you.

00:52:05.500 If you came to London in the 50s and 60s, the food was crap.

00:52:10.800 Absolute crap.

00:52:11.320 Well, it was that way in the 80s when I was here.

00:52:13.100 Right.

00:52:13.700 Now we have some of the best gastronomies.

00:52:16.060 Amazing.

00:52:16.580 Some of the most expensive too.

00:52:17.780 I wonder, is everyone eating there?

00:52:19.220 No, I can tell you.

00:52:20.260 I paid $1,000 for dinner last night.

00:52:22.280 Tucker, you're a wealthy man leading a very wealthy lifestyle.

00:52:25.000 Holy shit.

00:52:25.380 All the food here is.

00:52:26.660 Why don't you come with me to Brick Lane?

00:52:27.920 Come with me to Brixton.

00:52:29.080 I'll give you a proper meal.

00:52:30.300 I love it.

00:52:30.880 You and I will go to the tough parts of town and eat street food.

00:52:33.480 But I can give you a great meal.

00:52:34.560 But are you really saying the food?

00:52:36.840 I'll take you to the top end of Portobello Market.

00:52:39.140 Right.

00:52:39.300 You come with me.

00:52:39.960 If you want to risk death walking up to Portobello Market, I'll take you and give you some street

00:52:44.920 food and you'll spend 10 pounds.

00:52:45.780 I've been to Portobello Market.

00:52:47.280 And by the way, just in point of fact, I'm quite popular there.

00:52:50.360 I will say that.

00:52:51.640 In Notting Hill.

00:52:52.120 I feel no fear at all.

00:52:53.980 In Notting Hill?

00:52:54.840 Yeah.

00:52:55.260 I will.

00:52:55.540 Really?

00:52:56.480 Oh, man.

00:52:57.800 They're so liberal there.

00:52:58.980 Don't even get me going.

00:53:00.160 Even I get a hard time up there.

00:53:01.480 I think they secretly love me because they know that they've been naughty.

00:53:05.520 But whatever.

00:53:06.500 My theories aside.

00:53:07.920 Here's my point.

00:53:09.420 What about British culture apart from the boiled menu, which was repulsive?

00:53:15.920 Do you think?

00:53:16.940 But the national character.

00:53:18.460 Let me say it again.

00:53:19.580 Tidiness.

00:53:20.560 Self-restraint.

00:53:21.800 Yeah.

00:53:22.380 Selflessness.

00:53:23.240 Yeah.

00:53:23.740 Courage.

00:53:25.140 Fairness.

00:53:25.880 Yeah.

00:53:26.040 The British system was imported around the world on the basis of one concept, fairness.

00:53:30.640 That comes from the Magna Carta.

00:53:32.000 I think a lot of the-

00:53:32.740 Has this become a fairer society?

00:53:34.120 It's become completely unfair.

00:53:35.120 You put fucking Julian Assange in prison for years without charges.

00:53:38.040 No, no.

00:53:38.340 Because the CIA told you to.

00:53:39.460 We have had a massive rising issue with the suppression of free speech.

00:53:43.200 Which is a fairness issue.

00:53:44.520 But that has nothing to do with ethnicity or culture.

00:53:47.280 Oh, really?

00:53:47.700 So what does it have to do with, do you think?

00:53:48.980 It has to do with a very ridiculously draconian view of what free speech actually is.

00:53:54.500 But where does that come from?

00:53:55.240 You've never had that.

00:53:55.880 It's from governments.

00:53:56.580 No, but-

00:53:57.340 Of course.

00:53:58.400 But those are attitudes that grow from the population, or else you would have a revolution.

00:54:03.000 No, no.

00:54:03.120 This is the country that invented free speech.

00:54:04.920 No, no, no.

00:54:04.940 That's where you're wrong.

00:54:05.440 The population does not want this suppression of free speech.

00:54:08.700 They may not, but they keep voting for the fascists every time, whether it's Boris.

00:54:13.920 Whether it's Boris or whether it's-

00:54:16.420 Boris?

00:54:17.020 No.

00:54:17.340 He's a buffoon.

00:54:19.440 It doesn't mean he's not an authoritarian.

00:54:21.240 He wants-

00:54:22.060 It's funny you mentioned the word buffoon.

00:54:23.760 So I once-

00:54:24.200 Well, I mean, that's axiomatic.

00:54:25.200 Boris doesn't know how many children he has.

00:54:27.120 I'm going to tell you why.

00:54:27.660 No, because I once interviewed him for GQ.

00:54:30.300 And I said, Boris, this is 2008, 2009.

00:54:33.160 I said, Boris, I've always thought that lurking beneath the buffoon exterior lies a sharp calculating

00:54:39.540 political mind that wants to be prime minister.

00:54:41.500 He wasn't even a sort of politician at the time.

00:54:43.980 He looked at me and he said,

00:54:44.700 you must consider the possibility that lurking beneath the buffoon exterior is an actual buffoon.

00:54:52.620 True.

00:54:53.260 So he was right.

00:54:54.480 No, he was-

00:54:55.060 I can't say we weren't warned.

00:54:56.420 But the point is, look, it's not like-

00:54:58.800 He's not a fascist though, Boris Johnson.

00:55:00.460 He's an authoritarian.

00:55:01.220 But it diminishes the word fascist when you say that about people.

00:55:04.300 I get annoyed-

00:55:04.940 Well, what is fascism actually?

00:55:06.880 I mean, we're-

00:55:07.580 We, meaning the collective West, meaning the allies, meaning Roosevelt and Churchill, meaning

00:55:12.560 America and its cousins in the UK, were fighting against an authoritarian system.

00:55:17.240 It wasn't just about race hate.

00:55:18.900 It was about full control of a population.

00:55:20.640 We were arguing against that and fighting against it.

00:55:22.340 Of course, we were also funding it when we sent money to Stalin, but whatever.

00:55:25.080 It was never fully consistent.

00:55:26.180 But that's what we tell ourselves, and now that's what you have.

00:55:29.360 There were three times as many people arrested in the UK last year for speech crimes as were

00:55:36.260 arrested in Putin's Russia, and you have half the population.

00:55:39.580 So this is much more authoritarian than Putin's Russia.

00:55:42.120 Oh, it's not.

00:55:42.760 How is it not?

00:55:44.080 That's ridiculous.

00:55:44.540 If you have three times as many arrests for speech crimes, it's more authoritarian.

00:55:47.460 I've not seen that stat.

00:55:48.860 If that is true, it's because we have been so appalling in protecting free speech.

00:55:53.620 Well, you're appalling.

00:55:54.220 No debate there, but I'm just saying,

00:55:56.180 how do you define authoritarian?

00:55:58.760 The idea that we are living here in a more authoritarian state than Russia.

00:56:03.680 No, not come on.

00:56:05.260 Those are the numbers.

00:56:05.920 You don't believe that.

00:56:07.780 Look, I believe in science, Pierce.

00:56:09.700 I believe in science.

00:56:10.520 You think England is more authoritarian than Russia?

00:56:12.480 I think you're more likely to be arrested for a speech crime in Great Britain,

00:56:16.460 indeed, three times as likely.

00:56:17.800 What would happen if you criticize the government?

00:56:19.620 If you went on the airwaves here tonight.

00:56:21.600 I'm an American.

00:56:22.300 They're not going to mess with me.

00:56:23.200 No, no.

00:56:23.440 But if you went on the airwaves here tonight and you start abusing and hammering and mocking

00:56:27.540 and criticizing our prime minister, which, by the way, many people are doing.

00:56:30.640 I'll give you-

00:56:31.280 Yeah, yeah.

00:56:32.340 If you did that, what would happen to you?

00:56:35.420 Nothing.

00:56:36.060 Exactly.

00:56:36.460 But what if I said I thought gay sex was disgusting and it should be illegal?

00:56:39.720 And if you went-

00:56:40.160 Wait, hold on, hold on.

00:56:40.700 Hang on.

00:56:40.960 That's nothing.

00:56:41.560 Hang on.

00:56:41.820 I'm a prime minister.

00:56:42.740 How about I'm opposed to sodomy?

00:56:44.300 How's that?

00:56:45.020 I haven't finished my question.

00:56:46.240 And if you went to Moscow and you went on the airwaves and you did that about Putin,

00:56:50.640 what would happen to you?

00:56:50.940 You'd be in trouble.

00:56:51.740 Right.

00:56:52.240 So there's a difference.

00:56:53.220 No, because-

00:56:53.580 That's an authoritarian state.

00:56:54.820 No, no, no.

00:56:55.140 That's a straightforward-

00:56:55.660 This one is not.

00:56:56.460 That's a straightforward-

00:56:57.320 This is a flawed democracy.

00:56:58.540 No, this is global homo.

00:57:00.060 That is-

00:57:00.760 No, no.

00:57:01.520 This is-

00:57:01.860 Global homo.

00:57:02.660 It is.

00:57:02.980 It's global homo.

00:57:03.640 This is-

00:57:04.080 What do you mean?

00:57:04.800 I'm going to tell you.

00:57:05.640 I'm going to tell you.

00:57:06.280 This is a concept that you need to understand.

00:57:08.380 This is-

00:57:08.940 Yes, I do.

00:57:09.420 Yes, you do.

00:57:11.100 This is the authoritarianism of the present and future.

00:57:15.380 And it's not-

00:57:16.000 It's the feline, passive-aggressive female version that doesn't tell you what it is.

00:57:19.880 They don't march into your town in jack boots and put a rifle against your face and tell

00:57:23.380 you to obey.

00:57:23.400 But they do that in Russia.

00:57:24.780 For sure.

00:57:25.380 It's much more straightforward.

00:57:26.340 And they kill you.

00:57:26.980 It's a-

00:57:27.360 And you fall off a building suddenly.

00:57:28.840 Oh, you kill tons of people.

00:57:30.180 You kill tons of people.

00:57:31.080 I don't disagree.

00:57:31.860 Oh, yeah, you do a lot.

00:57:33.160 Yeah.

00:57:33.300 I know.

00:57:33.740 Right.

00:57:34.020 So let's stop with the killing people because you kill tons of people.

00:57:36.600 But as you well know, because you know the people who do it.

00:57:39.400 And I do too.

00:57:41.040 No, I'm saying there's something more offensive about an authoritarianism that will not admit

00:57:47.880 what it is.

00:57:48.860 So instead, people are arrested here and thrown into jail.

00:57:51.740 And I've been to Belmarsh Prison.

00:57:53.200 It's awful.

00:57:54.200 I've been there.

00:57:55.040 It's awful.

00:57:55.840 It is.

00:57:56.340 But you walk in, and there are all these signs about Trans Acceptance Week.

00:58:01.500 It is fascism wrapped in the human rights campaign rainbow logo.

00:58:07.220 So it's not any different from what we were fighting against.

00:58:13.080 It's arresting you for saying something they don't want.

00:58:15.340 I certainly believe, and this has been my big criticism of the woke left.

00:58:18.240 I wrote this book called Woke is Dead, which is more an aspiration than a reality at the

00:58:22.240 moment.

00:58:22.880 But the point I was making was that the woke left became, in the end, like the very fascists

00:58:29.960 they profess to hate most.

00:58:31.300 They literally behaved like fascists.

00:58:33.580 Anyone that deviated from their worldview-

00:58:35.620 I don't want you to devalue the term.

00:58:37.540 No, no, I'm not.

00:58:38.260 I'm explaining the hypocrisy of the left.

00:58:41.440 No, I get it.

00:58:42.200 Which I think we could probably agree with.

00:58:43.420 If you start to behave like the very people you claim you hate most, you are a brazen hypocrite.

00:58:47.680 It's not just the left.

00:58:48.980 It's the right.

00:58:49.580 Well, it's the right.

00:58:50.500 Unfortunately.

00:58:51.160 I agree.

00:58:51.520 Some of the right things as well.

00:58:52.420 I agree.

00:58:53.640 Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, isn't it?

00:58:54.860 Wherever you see it.

00:58:55.560 And I do think that the way I would categorize what's happened here is successive governments,

00:59:03.400 right and left, have pandered to a weird sentiment driven by very vocal but small numbers of

00:59:11.280 people that we have to start getting into the suppressing free speech business.

00:59:15.580 And it's been a catastrophic failure which has diminished this country.

00:59:19.720 But why?

00:59:20.060 What we're beginning to see is the coming out of that.

00:59:22.620 And I'll give an example.

00:59:23.500 When Graham Linehan, the comedian, the father of Ted Genius, right, and he decided to take

00:59:27.720 on this whole trans issue head on.

00:59:30.360 And a bit like J.K. Rowling, he got shamed, vilified, cancelled.

00:59:33.960 He lost everything.

00:59:34.480 He lost his family.

00:59:35.480 He lost his jobs.

00:59:36.600 He lost everything.

00:59:37.120 He became unemployable.

00:59:37.980 Completely cancelled.

00:59:39.400 And he did some jokes on X back in April.

00:59:44.220 And they were just like harmless.

00:59:47.820 Right?

00:59:47.960 He talked about a trans woman coming into a woman's space.

00:59:52.320 Harmless to you as a non-trans person, but genocidal to the trans community.

00:59:55.880 Which again is ridiculous.

00:59:57.300 So he did a joke about a trans woman coming into a woman's space.

01:00:01.700 And he said, what do you do?

01:00:03.140 Kick him in the balls, right?

01:00:04.480 It was a joke.

01:00:05.500 It was an ear-binole joke.

01:00:07.740 If you're oversensitive, you go, ooh, most people just laughed and took it for what it

01:00:11.320 was.

01:00:12.000 Some kind of joke that wouldn't even be considered remotely controversial 10 years ago.

01:00:16.000 When he arrived at Heathrow Airport several months later, he was arrested by five armed

01:00:21.120 police officers and taken off to the cells.

01:00:24.080 And I just found that utterly shocking.

01:00:26.920 So I'm not pretending there's not been a massive problem about free speech.

01:00:29.660 But what was interesting and encouraging was the public backlash.

01:00:33.720 Hence, my book title, Woke is Dead.

01:00:35.560 The public backlash was so ferocious that within a week, the police said, we're not going to

01:00:40.800 prosecute Lenin.

01:00:41.680 And actually, they said further, we're never going to prosecute anyone for this kind of

01:00:46.980 thing again.

01:00:47.720 This kind of thing.

01:00:48.440 That was a bug when I went, we're finally getting a bit of sanity back.

01:00:51.500 But that's not, so the trans thing is absurd.

01:00:53.480 It's so absurd that like, it's easy for people to say that's absurd.

01:00:57.840 What's actually happening here, as I think you know, is a society is being changed by

01:01:01.280 its leaders against the will of the population.

01:01:03.040 The population hates it.

01:01:04.100 They've always hated it.

01:01:05.080 No population wants radical demographic change.

01:01:08.020 None.

01:01:09.240 And so it's been so profound since 1997 under Tony Blair that you're not allowed to note

01:01:16.060 that your country is being taken from you.

01:01:18.320 OK, so you can criticize trainees all you want.

01:01:21.000 You cannot criticize Israel, as you know.

01:01:23.420 You're not allowed to criticize demographic change, and you can't criticize the rest of

01:01:27.940 the fabled LGBT community.

01:01:29.360 And if you don't believe me, listen to this story, which is like, it's unbelievable.

01:01:32.120 This is from the Daily Mail, which is like kind of a ridiculous publication.

01:01:36.100 But I love the Daily Mail.

01:01:37.340 I do too.

01:01:38.040 There's a lot about it I like, but I mean, it's like absurd.

01:01:40.280 But anyway, Elizabeth Kinney from Tranmere.

01:01:43.840 Have you read about this?

01:01:44.920 Go on.

01:01:45.360 She's a mother of four.

01:01:46.740 I think she's a nurse, and she gets beaten up by her boyfriend.

01:01:49.980 He beats her up.

01:01:50.460 She goes to the hospital, and she texts someone, a buddy of hers, a friend of hers,

01:01:57.180 a girlfriend of hers, and describes the man who beat her up and sent her to the hospital

01:02:01.380 as a, quote, faggot.

01:02:03.420 It's a faggot.

01:02:06.060 And she's arrested and convicted of a hate crime.

01:02:10.540 The guy who beat her up is not arrested or convicted.

01:02:13.980 And then she goes through this whole kabuki, which is now required, where she prostrates

01:02:18.800 herself before the judge.

01:02:19.840 I'm sorry.

01:02:20.280 It was not a homophobic rant.

01:02:21.480 By the way, you're allowed to be homophobic if you want in a free country.

01:02:23.880 You can have any view you want.

01:02:25.300 But no, because she used the word faggot, she's arrested, and the guy who punched her

01:02:29.180 in the face was not.

01:02:31.260 That story tells you everything.

01:02:33.920 Well, I don't know that story.

01:02:35.780 If it's exactly-

01:02:36.420 Daily Mail, baby.

01:02:37.180 Okay.

01:02:37.540 Pictures of her and everything.

01:02:38.560 I'm not doubting it.

01:02:38.940 I'm just saying I need to look into it.

01:02:40.380 But if that is how you've told it, obviously it's ridiculous.

01:02:43.000 Would you say the word faggot on camera?

01:02:44.680 No.

01:02:45.200 Why?

01:02:46.460 You don't want to get arrested, do you?

01:02:48.020 There's no way to be arrested.

01:02:49.100 Oh, because it's so harmful to people?

01:02:51.100 Is it like gay bashing?

01:02:52.340 What's wrong with that?

01:02:53.440 Actually, my whole issue with the whole trans debate, for example, is you don't need to

01:02:57.360 slide into actually saying derogatory stuff about trans people to make the point that

01:03:02.020 women's rights should be protected.

01:03:03.620 You don't need to-

01:03:04.580 Well, I agree.

01:03:05.380 So I don't believe-

01:03:06.420 No, no, but it's a magic word.

01:03:07.380 I don't believe in needlessly sneering-

01:03:09.720 I'm not smearing anybody.

01:03:10.980 I just think-

01:03:11.360 But would you use that word?

01:03:13.220 Faggot?

01:03:13.640 Yeah.

01:03:13.860 I just did.

01:03:14.320 But would you use it?

01:03:14.860 Faggot, faggot, faggot.

01:03:15.720 Okay, but why?

01:03:16.600 And I'm using it because you're not allowed to because you're-

01:03:19.440 I am allowed to.

01:03:20.060 Go ahead.

01:03:20.820 I don't want to.

01:03:21.480 Say, I love gay people.

01:03:22.880 Faggot.

01:03:23.420 I'm allowed to.

01:03:24.520 I just choose not to.

01:03:25.800 This chick just got arrested for it and convicted.

01:03:28.340 Right.

01:03:28.720 So that doesn't have a chilling effect on your ability to-

01:03:31.480 There are people watching this who will be offended by the use of the word chick.

01:03:33.820 I'm sure they will.

01:03:34.400 I'm not anti-gay.

01:03:35.120 I never have been.

01:03:35.720 No.

01:03:36.120 I can use any freaking word I want.

01:03:37.560 No, no.

01:03:37.840 I'm offended by the use of the word chick.

01:03:40.600 Chick.

01:03:42.240 Okay, whatever.

01:03:42.920 I dare you be so sexist comparing women to chicks.

01:03:45.980 How about this?

01:03:46.580 Let my life, the way that I actually live and treat people, be the testament to my heart.

01:03:51.160 That's how I feel.

01:03:52.060 Right.

01:03:52.380 And if I've mistreated someone, that is a sin.

01:03:55.200 I don't believe-

01:03:56.120 Correct me if I'm wrong.

01:03:57.600 I don't believe you would call a gay person a faggot to their face.

01:04:01.060 Not in a mean way.

01:04:02.000 By the way, the only people I ever hear use the word faggot are gay.

01:04:04.500 Right.

01:04:04.760 Ever.

01:04:05.660 Just like the only people you ever hear use the N-word are black.

01:04:08.400 Right.

01:04:09.500 Period.

01:04:10.380 Right.

01:04:10.580 So if you spend any time around gays, and I have spent a lot of time around gays-

01:04:14.140 Really?

01:04:14.560 Who, of course, I work in television.

01:04:16.380 I mean, half our staff was gay.

01:04:17.720 They're great people.

01:04:19.120 And they're the only ones who ever said, faggot.

01:04:20.960 He's a faggot.

01:04:21.880 I'd be like, ugh.

01:04:23.720 I have no need to say the word.

01:04:25.280 Actually, it's kind of an ugly word, to be totally honest.

01:04:27.260 But you know the argument they use, which is-

01:04:29.420 Well, they don't use it.

01:04:30.380 They use the word constantly.

01:04:31.640 I've worked with them my whole life.

01:04:33.520 Well, I wrote a column, for example, about the use of-

01:04:35.400 But I'm not allowed to use it, but you are.

01:04:36.840 I don't play those games, dude.

01:04:37.940 Listen, I've got to make a point.

01:04:39.040 I wrote a column for the Mail, actually, about the use of the N-word.

01:04:43.060 And the Washington Post had a huge report on this and said that every day, on Twitter,

01:04:47.100 as it was then, the N-word was used half a million times, but almost exclusively by young

01:04:53.520 African-American men.

01:04:55.240 So it's cool.

01:04:56.200 Well, they would argue.

01:04:58.040 And I understood the argument.

01:04:59.260 Yeah.

01:04:59.620 It's that they've reclaimed that word.

01:05:01.840 I don't believe in universal rights either.

01:05:03.220 I think certain standards should apply to certain people based on their blood, but don't apply

01:05:08.220 to everybody.

01:05:09.860 What do you mean?

01:05:11.920 I mean, that's what you're saying, dude.

01:05:13.700 No, I'm sorry.

01:05:14.100 No, you are-

01:05:14.880 The standards have to be absolute or they're not standards.

01:05:17.100 I was about to make my argument that I made in the column.

01:05:19.440 Sorry, you're getting me so wound up.

01:05:20.740 No, no, but I actually made the point in the column that I don't think that works.

01:05:24.720 I don't think you reclaim it.

01:05:26.020 What you actually do is you empower genuine racists to say, well, if they're using that word,

01:05:31.180 I'm going to use it.

01:05:32.560 And so I felt it was an entirely self-defeating reclamation of that offensive word.

01:05:37.780 I would say the same to gay people.

01:05:39.140 If you constantly use the F word in your own-

01:05:42.460 What's the F word?

01:05:44.020 You know what?

01:05:44.540 We've just been saying it.

01:05:45.360 If you want to keep saying it, you keep saying it.

01:05:46.900 I'm not going to keep saying it.

01:05:47.340 It's worse than fuck, isn't it?

01:05:49.760 To a gay person, from a straight person, yes.

01:05:53.320 From a straight person, but not from the gay person?

01:05:55.440 That's my point.

01:05:56.180 I understand the reclamation argument that they put up.

01:06:02.140 Reclamation.

01:06:02.800 That they're reclaiming the word and they're disempowering it.

01:06:05.320 That's fine.

01:06:05.800 I don't care.

01:06:07.020 I think that's kind of amusing, actually.

01:06:08.760 I just don't think it works.

01:06:10.040 I think the more these words get used, then the more-

01:06:12.380 But is it really about words?

01:06:13.840 I guess that's kind of what I'm saying.

01:06:15.060 I think it empowers people who are genuinely racist or homophobic to then use those words.

01:06:19.160 Okay, they're genuinely racist or homophobic.

01:06:20.600 I don't care.

01:06:21.320 Why don't you pick up the trash?

01:06:22.500 Okay, that's kind of how I feel.

01:06:23.800 And stop letting people from countries where they can't speak English come to your country by the millions.

01:06:28.460 It's like, don't the material things matter?

01:06:31.120 Don't the actual things matter?

01:06:32.380 Your father lying on a cot in a public hospital?

01:06:34.500 I do think that people, when they come to a country, should try and learn the language.

01:06:37.680 Of course.

01:06:38.040 But no, but again, I'm not attacking anybody.

01:06:40.560 I'm just saying, the whole debate about what words are allowed and by whom is, first of all, insane.

01:06:47.000 Because, again, standards mean nothing unless they apply to everyone.

01:06:50.620 Because we believe in human rights, not group rights or ethnic rights.

01:06:54.000 We're against that because we're against the Nazis, right?

01:06:56.760 So there's that.

01:06:57.860 But it's also a distraction from what actually matters.

01:07:00.820 If your dad is spending hours, I'm sure he was a Briton.

01:07:03.800 He spent his whole life here paying taxes.

01:07:05.240 And that's what he gets?

01:07:07.060 It's like, we should be having-

01:07:08.340 Completely unacceptable.

01:07:08.800 But it is acceptable.

01:07:10.440 That's the problem.

01:07:11.200 Instead, we're arresting that girl for saying faggot.

01:07:14.480 Well, the two things-

01:07:15.120 Or as we say here, the F word.

01:07:16.420 Yeah.

01:07:17.400 Like I said, I don't know that story.

01:07:18.560 I'll look into it.

01:07:19.180 But I do-

01:07:20.000 Does she look like a faggot user to you?

01:07:21.740 She looks too nice.

01:07:24.780 Come on.

01:07:25.660 I'm so sorry.

01:07:26.700 Don't behave yourself.

01:07:27.440 No, I can't.

01:07:28.360 I know you can't.

01:07:29.100 They're making me want to say that because it's so outrageous that you would arrest someone for a word.

01:07:37.700 I agree.

01:07:38.040 And we actually have to put ourselves at risk to stop-

01:07:41.400 I agree.

01:07:41.980 Yeah.

01:07:42.460 I agree with you.

01:07:43.160 Well, then help me now.

01:07:44.060 Let's have a moment of self-liberation.

01:07:47.320 I think you're beyond help.

01:07:48.140 Hold my hand.

01:07:48.900 Hold my hand.

01:07:49.360 We're going to say faggot together.

01:07:50.460 You ready?

01:07:50.920 No, we're not.

01:07:51.900 Do you say gay and retard?

01:07:53.040 Huh?

01:07:53.540 Do you say gay and retard?

01:07:54.720 I say gay.

01:07:55.520 I wouldn't use the R word.

01:07:58.480 I wouldn't.

01:07:59.840 I personally wouldn't.

01:08:01.580 It's my choice.

01:08:02.340 Do you think it should be legal to abort a Down syndrome baby?

01:08:05.500 I'm exercising my free speech right not to use that word.

01:08:08.360 I totally agree.

01:08:08.960 I actually don't use the N word ever because I think it's ugly.

01:08:11.720 I just don't.

01:08:12.060 So by your own petard, you're being wasted.

01:08:14.780 I kind of agree.

01:08:15.700 I'm not even.

01:08:16.500 I'm mostly making fun to make a point.

01:08:18.640 I actually think that we should not kill people because they have Down syndrome.

01:08:22.160 I think they're beautiful people.

01:08:23.480 And I think when you get to heaven, it'll probably fill people with Down syndrome because

01:08:26.140 they are pure in spirit.

01:08:27.720 And I'm not joking.

01:08:28.340 Even a tiny bit.

01:08:29.040 I really believe that.

01:08:30.320 But people who think it's okay to genocide everyone with Down syndrome through that alpha

01:08:34.260 fetal protein test are lecturing me because I'm using the word retard.

01:08:37.620 It's like maybe we're missing the real argument.

01:08:39.820 That's all I'm saying.

01:08:41.020 Does that make sense?

01:08:41.940 It does.

01:08:42.340 Although I'm pro a woman's right to choose what to do with her body.

01:08:45.840 Including aborting someone because he's retarded?

01:08:48.480 Well, in this country, to be clear, abortions are a very settled issue.

01:08:53.240 George Galloway doesn't believe in it.

01:08:54.520 Well, no, but honestly, it's not a contentious issue.

01:08:56.820 It should be.

01:08:57.160 In America, I know.

01:08:58.340 In America, it's a ferociously contentious issue.

01:09:00.860 It is simply not one in this country.

01:09:02.440 Maybe that's part of the problem.

01:09:03.720 I don't think it's a problem at all.

01:09:04.760 Who's having the abortions here?

01:09:07.220 Well, a lot of people have abortions here.

01:09:09.180 Right.

01:09:09.480 It's pretty overwhelmingly, though, people whose grandparents lived here.

01:09:12.100 Have you ever noticed that?

01:09:13.280 Whose people?

01:09:13.760 Who what?

01:09:14.480 It's the native population having the abortions.

01:09:16.320 It's not immigrants not having a ton of abortions.

01:09:18.480 I don't know the demographic.

01:09:20.840 But that's true everywhere.

01:09:22.440 And I just had a deeper issue.

01:09:24.640 So, like, what is the loss of the will to live?

01:09:28.100 Why?

01:09:28.620 If you're not having, and you're a huge exception to this.

01:09:30.660 I know you've procreated SFI.

01:09:33.000 God bless us both.

01:09:34.960 But a lot of native-born Brits do not have many children, if any.

01:09:41.660 It's also true in the United States.

01:09:42.780 It's especially true in Canada.

01:09:43.940 I think this is becoming a massive issue, and Elon Musk has been right about this.

01:09:47.540 Yes.

01:09:47.780 The biggest problem is not, as we all assumed, overpopulation in the world, but underpopulation.

01:09:53.440 Because a lot of people now, especially as the changing way society has gone, with many more women working and so on,

01:10:00.680 that the number of children that are being born, actually, in places like the UK and the US,

01:10:06.220 is reducing quite markedly projected for the next 50 years.

01:10:09.880 And you're seeing in some countries in Asia, for example, it's getting catastrophically low very fast.

01:10:15.960 And this is going to be a massive problem.

01:10:17.440 South Korea.

01:10:17.940 Yeah, it's going to be a huge problem.

01:10:18.520 There will be no South Koreans in 100 years.

01:10:20.080 It will only be North Koreans.

01:10:21.560 What does that tell you?

01:10:22.500 Well, it's not a good moment.

01:10:24.220 No, but where's that?

01:10:25.320 I totally agree with you and with Elon.

01:10:28.500 And again, I feel like we've all done our part to reverse that trend.

01:10:31.300 But I feel like we spend no time asking, why is this?

01:10:35.860 Well, don't you think it's as simple in most cases as the changing work practice?

01:10:40.300 If you went to the 1950s.

01:10:41.360 That's part of it, yeah.

01:10:42.180 1950s in the UK, most women didn't work.

01:10:44.720 Now, when women go out to work a lot more, they probably don't have the time to have three, four, five children as they used to.

01:10:50.880 There's no doubt.

01:10:51.500 And they can't afford it.

01:10:52.480 Childcare is more expensive.

01:10:54.340 In the United States, it's more expensive than I think any other expense.

01:10:57.260 But for young people with children, of course, you're right.

01:11:01.440 But there's also something a little bit deeper than that.

01:11:03.940 It's like it used to be just axiomatic that reproducing was not just your duty, but your greatest joy.

01:11:10.940 That was the way you create the next generation, continue your civilization.

01:11:15.680 And that has died since the Second World War.

01:11:18.460 And not just in the white world.

01:11:21.400 But yeah, that is like a profound change.

01:11:24.820 What is inarguable, actually?

01:11:25.840 I mean, look, like I said, the population here has gone from 50 million to 70 million since the 50s.

01:11:30.360 But the really worrying graph is what happens in the next 50 years.

01:11:34.620 No, but that growth in population has been almost exclusively from immigration.

01:11:39.620 And true in the United States, and Canada is just like a completely different country.

01:11:44.360 Nothing like that has ever happened in the history of the world.

01:11:47.500 Why is this happening?

01:11:49.780 Well, what, in terms of people traveling around?

01:11:51.880 No, in terms of people deciding not to pass on their genes, committing mass suicide, because that's what that is.

01:11:57.920 Well, yeah.

01:11:58.940 Our families lived in this village for 2000, since the beginning of recorded history in this country.

01:12:03.960 Unlike mine, you have a native population.

01:12:06.200 Because no one could travel.

01:12:07.140 You're the Cherokee of this island, okay?

01:12:09.920 I don't want to give you a history lesson, but 100 years ago, everyone traveled by horse and cart.

01:12:14.540 There was no airplane.

01:12:15.560 You couldn't leave the country.

01:12:16.580 But you couldn't go to other places.

01:12:18.700 But rather like tribes 2,000 years ago, who used to literally just sit in their little area of wherever it may be, eventually they ventured out.

01:12:26.960 And so evolution continues.

01:12:28.480 I'm for that.

01:12:28.960 I would never argue against that.

01:12:30.260 I flew here, actually.

01:12:31.460 Yeah, right, of course.

01:12:32.220 So once you're able to do that, obviously people are going to go exploring.

01:12:36.040 They're going to want to try and live in other places.

01:12:37.900 The question then becomes, how enriching or damaging, or both, and in what levels, is an influx of people from other ethnicities, other cultures, other countries?

01:12:49.840 I would say on balance, London in particular, has been almost a template, actually, for tolerance and cohesion and multiculturalism at its best.

01:13:00.720 The stabbings you're talking about.

01:13:01.980 Well, let's talk about the stabbings.

01:13:03.780 The murder rate in London, do you know what it is compared to any major city in America?

01:13:07.460 Probably much lower, I would think.

01:13:09.200 Way lower testosterone level here.

01:13:11.160 I mean, you can feel it, too.

01:13:12.560 Yeah, that's true, actually.

01:13:13.600 Every time.

01:13:13.960 Oh, I'm aware.

01:13:14.860 That's true.

01:13:15.800 But look, I'm not…

01:13:16.500 But you have the worst murder rates.

01:13:18.060 Well, I know.

01:13:18.780 And by the way, we always have, which is interesting.

01:13:21.000 Yeah.

01:13:21.180 There are a lot of factors for that, and it's one of the saddest things in my country.

01:13:24.460 I would never defend it.

01:13:24.960 The murder rate in London, for example, I checked before I came and saw you, because I thought you'd ask.

01:13:28.580 You think London's a better city than it was 40 years ago, 50 years ago?

01:13:31.380 Well, statistically, the murder rate has actually been plummeting in London.

01:13:34.600 Do you know any…

01:13:35.060 Which I'm good.

01:13:35.380 I'll tell you the problem in London, what we really need in London…

01:13:38.580 Wait, do you think it's a better city than it was 40 years ago, for real?

01:13:41.140 Yeah.

01:13:42.040 Do you think Sadiq Khan's better than what you had before?

01:13:44.220 I think Sadiq Khan is somebody who's won two more terms after his first,

01:13:50.540 because actually, he's not done as bad a job as people say.

01:13:53.660 Oh, that's the new standard.

01:13:54.440 Nor has he done as good a job as he would like you to believe, but certainly in things like tackling murder, I give him credit, in tackling things like the clean air, where some of the boroughs here were the most polluted in the country.

01:14:06.940 You have no factories.

01:14:08.020 You don't make anything.

01:14:09.180 All you do is banking.

01:14:10.440 How could there be dirty air?

01:14:11.680 What are you even talking about?

01:14:12.880 There's no manufacturing.

01:14:13.820 You lost automotive, you lost aerospace, you lost everything, steel.

01:14:19.080 It's clean air because people are idle.

01:14:22.160 They're delivering food to people who work at banks.

01:14:24.500 That's it.

01:14:25.120 There is more traffic now in London than there was even four years ago.

01:14:30.000 I'm sure.

01:14:30.640 Right.

01:14:31.280 That's called tourism.

01:14:32.000 So my borough, Kenton and Chelsea, for example, one in 12 people, there was a big study on this a few years ago, one in 12 people were dying from pollution-related illness, right?

01:14:41.220 I had a lot of issues, which I thought were allergy issues.

01:14:44.960 Eventually, I was told, right, here's what you should do.

01:14:47.700 Check your air quality app every morning.

01:14:49.580 When it's really high, don't go out and shut the windows.

01:14:51.980 Secondly, get air purifying machines in your house for the rooms you use.

01:14:55.960 I did both.

01:14:56.680 Guess what?

01:14:57.160 I've had no problems since, and I didn't have any allergies.

01:14:59.800 Well, that's amazing.

01:15:00.580 And all it cost was the total destruction of your economy.

01:15:04.200 So why do you think the air was polluted before?

01:15:06.740 Because people were burning-

01:15:07.660 Our economy has not been destroyed.

01:15:09.000 We're still one of the biggest economies in the world.

01:15:10.420 What is the economy here?

01:15:11.660 What's it based on?

01:15:12.960 What do you mean?

01:15:14.020 What's the British economy?

01:15:15.120 I look at the economy of, I don't know, Wales in 1900, and it's like, it's coal.

01:15:20.180 They did coal.

01:15:21.180 People burn it.

01:15:21.800 That's what their economy is.

01:15:23.140 Look at the economy of Sheffield or Birmingham 100 years ago.

01:15:26.320 Well, of course, it was steelmaking.

01:15:28.000 What's the economy-

01:15:28.800 There's still a lot of manufacturing in the UK.

01:15:30.580 But as a percentage, your economy-

01:15:33.240 A percentage of manufacturing would be a lot less.

01:15:35.320 A lot less?

01:15:36.080 It's almost non-existent.

01:15:37.040 Yeah.

01:15:37.380 Right.

01:15:37.780 So-

01:15:37.960 We still have one of the biggest economies in the world.

01:15:39.880 But what is that economy based on?

01:15:42.020 A lot of things.

01:15:42.960 Okay.

01:15:43.200 What's the main one?

01:15:44.460 Well, of the city, there's a lot of manufacturing.

01:15:46.200 That's the main one?

01:15:47.080 Well, there's a lot of technology stuff going on.

01:15:49.140 There's a lot of scientific stuff going on.

01:15:50.920 There's all sorts of-

01:15:51.760 You haven't mentioned the biggest one by far.

01:15:54.540 Well, go on.

01:15:55.100 It's lending money to people.

01:15:56.980 It's banking.

01:15:58.220 Banking, yeah.

01:15:59.480 Okay.

01:15:59.940 That's number-

01:16:00.520 We're in the city of London right now.

01:16:01.940 Sure.

01:16:02.400 How many things are being made in the city of London other than debt?

01:16:05.000 It's one of the financial hubs of the world.

01:16:06.540 We're right in the city here.

01:16:08.120 I know we're sitting in the city of London right now, run by Citi Khan.

01:16:10.900 Right.

01:16:11.980 But again, it's not as bad as people think it is.

01:16:13.840 But hold on.

01:16:14.700 Is that really an economy?

01:16:15.980 If your economy is real estate, that's London's other big economic center, is buying and selling

01:16:23.220 and leasing pieces of property again and again to different people.

01:16:26.980 Nothing's being created.

01:16:29.140 But that's not true.

01:16:30.000 That's not true.

01:16:30.500 We are creating things here.

01:16:31.740 A lot of things.

01:16:32.320 Like what?

01:16:32.820 There's a lot of money.

01:16:33.400 Burrata.

01:16:34.040 Okay.

01:16:34.380 Yeah, there's a lot of-

01:16:35.100 Of course, there's a lot of money because people from around the world stash their money

01:16:37.840 here because it's a system based on fairness.

01:16:41.140 There's a lot of manufacturing.

01:16:42.200 Not as much as there was 80 years ago.

01:16:44.340 How much is in London, your biggest city, the dominant city?

01:16:46.440 I don't know the percentages.

01:16:47.820 So we have to check.

01:16:49.100 Pretty much, unless you're talking about like burritos being manufactured or whatever,

01:16:54.360 I don't think there's really any.

01:16:55.920 The bigger problem for us is not what economy we're doing.

01:16:59.020 It's how we manage the economy.

01:17:00.640 So it doesn't matter where the money comes from?

01:17:02.420 No, no.

01:17:02.480 It does.

01:17:03.420 But successive governments have dragged us to a place where we have almost zero growth.

01:17:07.480 Without growth, you can't have a successful, thriving country.

01:17:10.420 That's not true.

01:17:10.880 Have you been to Japan?

01:17:12.280 It's like the most successful, thriving country in the world.

01:17:14.360 It has had no growth for a long, not real growth.

01:17:17.120 And we've gotten these lectures from the bankers for like 30 years.

01:17:19.900 Japan is dying.

01:17:20.640 Ever go to Japan?

01:17:21.940 There are four-year-old girls on the subway alone.

01:17:24.380 There's not one speck of litter in all of Tokyo, and it's one of the biggest cities in

01:17:27.420 the world.

01:17:27.660 12 million.

01:17:28.740 It's an incredible society.

01:17:30.480 It's the opposite of New York, London, Baltimore, Detroit.

01:17:35.900 It's incredible.

01:17:36.740 I know you've been there, and I know you've had these naughty, forbidden thoughts like,

01:17:39.640 wait a second, I thought we dropped a bomb on them.

01:17:41.480 How are they so great?

01:17:42.240 No, no, no.

01:17:42.780 I like going to Tokyo.

01:17:44.100 No growth.

01:17:45.040 How'd they do that with no growth?

01:17:46.380 I was assured by libertarian economics, if we had no growth, things would be bad.

01:17:49.740 Well, look at this.

01:17:50.580 I like going to Japan, but I wouldn't swap it for London.

01:17:53.860 Right.

01:17:54.800 Fair.

01:17:55.080 You're English.

01:17:56.180 That's kind of the point.

01:17:56.960 Right.

01:17:57.180 This is your homeland.

01:17:57.880 And I genuinely do love London.

01:17:59.860 I bet you do.

01:18:00.600 When I lived in America full-time, I really missed a lot of the fabric.

01:18:03.240 I hope so.

01:18:04.080 This is where your ancestors are from.

01:18:05.720 I get it.

01:18:06.220 That's the whole point.

01:18:07.300 That's the whole argument I'm making.

01:18:08.920 It matters where you're from.

01:18:10.320 The culture really matters.

01:18:11.480 It's not about growth.

01:18:12.960 It's not about any of this crap.

01:18:14.360 It's about, am I on the same page with my neighbor?

01:18:17.220 Do we have something in common?

01:18:18.320 Do we have the same gut instincts about things?

01:18:20.260 Those are the most important questions there are.

01:18:21.800 But economic prosperity raises all the ships.

01:18:24.700 Has that been true here?

01:18:26.320 It should be true.

01:18:27.380 Is there more poverty in London now than there was 40 years ago?

01:18:30.420 There's more child poverty.

01:18:32.060 Yes, I know.

01:18:32.960 In fact, the child poverty rate is worse here than it is in America.

01:18:35.960 A lot worse.

01:18:36.900 The general poverty rate.

01:18:37.680 So how is this so great, even though they have burrata?

01:18:39.540 The general poverty rate is actually lower than it is in America.

01:18:43.360 But child poverty specifically is still worse.

01:18:45.700 Is there anything that matters other than child poverty?

01:18:47.700 Probably not.

01:18:48.440 Not really.

01:18:49.240 I agree.

01:18:50.220 Look, I'm not slagging on.

01:18:51.220 I love your country.

01:18:52.500 I really thought a lot about this since I was so mean during that conversation.

01:18:57.060 I was just wounded because I feel like the destruction of Britain has effects on our entire Anglo civilization.

01:19:04.800 Do you actually look out and see a destroyed country?

01:19:07.580 No, it's just beautiful.

01:19:08.360 I mean, this is, again, this is the rich part of town.

01:19:10.980 I could take you to Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Cardiff.

01:19:16.360 How are they doing?

01:19:17.520 They're all doing great.

01:19:18.560 Much better than you think.

01:19:19.480 Honestly, Tucker, you'll walk around.

01:19:21.400 You'll see the pubs packed, the restaurants packed, the theatres packed.

01:19:25.000 You'll see people having a great time.

01:19:26.500 Go out on a Friday night in London.

01:19:28.140 Go to the Devonshire in Soho, the best Irish pub in town.

01:19:32.740 Four deep in the streets.

01:19:34.020 Everyone having a great time.

01:19:34.940 I love that.

01:19:35.420 20,000 pints of Guinness being sold every week.

01:19:38.500 Well, I could say that there are so many things about London I really like.

01:19:42.520 I've been here three days, again, visiting relatives who live here.

01:19:45.240 Have you felt threatened walking around?

01:19:47.260 No, not at all.

01:19:48.120 Of course.

01:19:48.500 Again, who's going to do anything?

01:19:50.500 Pakistanis are all super nice to me and the whites are all kind of craven and sad.

01:19:54.300 No, you're totally safe here, man.

01:19:56.520 It's not that at all.

01:19:58.060 It's just that it's dirty.

01:20:00.040 It's what?

01:20:00.640 It's dirty.

01:20:01.600 Oh, come on.

01:20:02.520 American cities aren't any cleaner than London.

01:20:04.540 They're dirtier.

01:20:05.460 They're dirtier.

01:20:06.180 And it's one of the great tragedies.

01:20:07.580 And I can't get anyone to care.

01:20:09.580 I agree.

01:20:10.060 Nobody cares.

01:20:11.140 I agree.

01:20:12.000 So that to me, if I went to your bedroom right now.

01:20:15.360 Sorry?

01:20:15.960 I'm not going.

01:20:16.640 I'm not going.

01:20:17.300 Especially after the whole faggot thing.

01:20:18.940 It's like I'm uncomfortable.

01:20:19.860 I get it.

01:20:20.180 I get it.

01:20:20.520 I get it.

01:20:21.060 And you said you were so liberal.

01:20:22.720 But if I went to your house unannounced, I bet I would find it tidy and clean.

01:20:27.300 Yeah.

01:20:27.420 And I bet I would find that just because you have a housekeeper.

01:20:29.220 I don't even know if you do.

01:20:29.860 But because you care, because you have self-respect.

01:20:32.260 Right.

01:20:32.600 That's why you shave in the brain.

01:20:33.160 But I agree with that point.

01:20:34.200 I think the self-respect part, I totally agree with you.

01:20:36.860 We've lost that.

01:20:37.800 We've lost the, I think, the British were legendary for our politeness, our manners, our calm.

01:20:43.100 That has gone.

01:20:44.380 We've really, really-

01:20:45.100 Dude, that's everything.

01:20:46.160 No, but I totally agree with you.

01:20:47.620 So when you talk about the cultural stuff that I really regret that has gone out of fashion,

01:20:51.720 if you like, it is things like that.

01:20:53.540 It's things like, you know, a British person used to speak well and open doors for women

01:20:58.500 and things like that.

01:20:59.100 Now that's frowned upon, right?

01:21:01.180 They're kind of screaming radical feminists that made it almost a taboo thing.

01:21:04.940 Young men in particular do not know how to behave.

01:21:07.340 When I'm out with them, I notice they don't stand up when women walk into a room or to

01:21:11.140 a table.

01:21:11.780 They don't open doors for women and stuff because they've been conditioned to think

01:21:14.760 this might be toxic masculinity and all this bullshit.

01:21:17.740 That kind of stuff really worries me.

01:21:19.860 Do you ever wonder where it comes from?

01:21:22.820 Because I know the answer, but I'm not like-

01:21:24.340 Well, you're going to say it's multiculturalism, but a lot of the other cultures that have

01:21:27.880 come here actually have far more politeness.

01:21:30.100 I agree.

01:21:30.880 I agree completely.

01:21:32.340 So that's the point, yeah.

01:21:33.420 That's exactly my point, is that the cost is to the invaded.

01:21:38.140 You're being invaded.

01:21:39.040 You already said there are boats showing up uninvited.

01:21:40.780 That's called an invasion.

01:21:41.960 It's happened a lot through history.

01:21:44.440 And it's the people who are conquered, who are vanquished, who suffer.

01:21:48.460 The immigrants all seem kind of happy.

01:21:50.100 It's better than Bangalore, you know, or wherever.

01:21:51.940 You don't feel conquered and vanquished.

01:21:53.080 But you are, though.

01:21:54.220 I mean, if people are showing up in boats in your country, I don't know what to do

01:21:57.980 about them.

01:21:58.360 Well, how about sink them?

01:21:59.580 What?

01:22:00.400 You really think-

01:22:01.500 To put it in perspective-

01:22:03.540 Lord Nelson would put up with this?

01:22:04.400 To put it in perspective, in the last five years, we've had about 200,000 people come

01:22:08.780 over our southern border.

01:22:10.340 In the last five years in America, until Donald Trump got a grip of it, you have apparently

01:22:14.340 10 million come over the southern border.

01:22:16.480 Oh, more.

01:22:17.220 Right.

01:22:17.620 So I'm afraid there is no comparison.

01:22:19.880 We have a little problem.

01:22:21.500 You had a gigantic problem.

01:22:22.780 Let me add an amen, as we say in the black church, that I totally agree.

01:22:27.160 And that's why Britain is so interesting, because for two reasons.

01:22:30.360 One, the people who are being invaded and replaced are the native population.

01:22:36.000 They're the Iroquois of the British Isles.

01:22:37.780 They've been here forever.

01:22:39.140 Their ancestors' bones were at Stonehenge.

01:22:40.800 There's no debate about that, though they pretend otherwise, but that's just a fact.

01:22:44.320 So eliminating indigenous populations is like kind of a sin, I thought, but it's happening

01:22:47.980 here and in Ireland and in Scotland and in Wales.

01:22:50.220 Because A, B...

01:22:52.540 Hang on, they're not being eliminated.

01:22:54.000 Of course they are.

01:22:54.620 Look at the birth rates.

01:22:55.640 They're not.

01:22:55.820 What are their birth rates?

01:22:56.640 But that's not an elimination.

01:22:57.820 Of course it is.

01:22:58.240 Over time it is.

01:22:59.180 Dude, look...

01:22:59.780 But that is people taking a decision about their own lives and not having enough children

01:23:02.880 or as many as they used to have.

01:23:04.600 Well, a...

01:23:05.340 That's not an elimination.

01:23:06.480 A process...

01:23:07.160 What do you mean it's not a limit?

01:23:08.180 No one's forcing them.

01:23:09.360 No.

01:23:09.720 No one's telling the white population of this country, you can't have more than one child.

01:23:13.480 Well, that's kind of the point that I'm making.

01:23:15.020 No, they're not, though.

01:23:16.540 The...

01:23:16.900 Well, whatever they're doing.

01:23:18.340 I mean, they're certainly encouraging...

01:23:20.440 They're aggressively encouraging...

01:23:21.360 I can't use the word elimination.

01:23:21.920 They're aggressively encouraging homosexuality.

01:23:24.280 Use the F word and you go to jail.

01:23:26.340 No, what is that?

01:23:27.060 You can't...

01:23:28.060 If you want to know who's in charge, you can't criticize.

01:23:30.120 You can't use the word faggot?

01:23:31.240 What?

01:23:31.520 No one's aggressively encouraging homosexuality.

01:23:33.800 This girl went to jail for using a naughty word about gays, dude.

01:23:36.940 They're not encouraging it?

01:23:37.940 What do you think that is?

01:23:38.980 What's wrong with homosexuality?

01:23:42.260 Well, if you encourage it and the rate goes up, people have fewer kids.

01:23:46.820 I don't know, did you do biology?

01:23:48.340 Well, no.

01:23:48.640 Just to be clear, most gay people don't have kids.

01:23:51.900 That's the point I'm making.

01:23:53.260 So if all of a sudden you have more people being gay, which you do...

01:23:57.340 A lot?

01:23:58.080 No, you don't.

01:23:59.000 People don't pretend to be gay.

01:24:00.260 Do you have the internet?

01:24:01.700 I don't know.

01:24:02.320 I'm not saying they're pretending.

01:24:03.560 I'm saying you've got way more...

01:24:05.540 You're gay, right?

01:24:07.180 Well, you know, we used to say that, but...

01:24:09.560 You don't think so?

01:24:10.540 Well, I used to think that, but all of a sudden you're having...

01:24:12.760 I think lots of people put their hand up saying they're trans.

01:24:15.120 That's a different issue.

01:24:16.040 Oh, it's totally different.

01:24:17.100 It's not part of the continuum.

01:24:18.480 It's not like gender isn't real.

01:24:20.880 I can pretend...

01:24:22.180 If you're gay, you're gay.

01:24:25.260 Well, you know, we were told that and I believed a lot of things.

01:24:27.740 Do you not believe that?

01:24:28.360 Well, it's demonstrably not true because science tells us it's not true.

01:24:31.340 Do you think people are making it up?

01:24:32.460 I don't think they're making it up at all.

01:24:33.780 So what's your point?

01:24:34.520 I think that you can be moved in that direction through propaganda and pornography.

01:24:39.320 Oh, come off it, Tucker.

01:24:40.440 Well, then how do you explain...

01:24:42.480 Is there anything that would make you...

01:24:43.340 Hold on.

01:24:43.760 Could I make you gay?

01:24:46.180 How hard do you want to try?

01:24:47.840 Not hard, I can tell you.

01:24:49.280 That's the spirit, Pierce.

01:24:50.560 There's a limit.

01:24:51.200 Even an open-minded man like you, you kind of hate the gays.

01:24:53.680 Could I make you gay?

01:24:54.320 I make a little gay joke.

01:24:55.380 You're like, oh, I'm not going to be gay.

01:24:57.280 Oh, no.

01:24:57.980 I don't like you using a gay slur.

01:24:59.160 That's fine.

01:25:00.600 Well, first of all, the context matters.

01:25:03.020 As I've told you, I mean, that's like coffee table conversation between the gays.

01:25:07.400 I work with that fox faggot.

01:25:09.360 So if it's okay with them, it's okay with me.

01:25:11.220 It's just, it's sort of like racism.

01:25:13.980 Only the whites are upset about it.

01:25:15.340 You don't actually think people can be persuaded to be gay.

01:25:17.460 Well, then why don't you explain the two-fold or three-fold increase in self-identified homosexuals in the United States?

01:25:23.860 I can.

01:25:24.180 They used to be repressed.

01:25:25.280 It used to be illegal in this country until the mid-60s.

01:25:27.340 You literally went to jail.

01:25:28.600 So all through history...

01:25:29.240 Hang on, hang on.

01:25:30.020 You literally were put in a prison cell if you were openly homosexual.

01:25:33.940 That was more here, actually.

01:25:35.160 You guys did Oscar Wilde.

01:25:36.160 We didn't.

01:25:36.580 It was terrible.

01:25:37.920 Absolutely shocking.

01:25:38.740 Yeah, it was terrible.

01:25:39.480 You ruled the world at the time.

01:25:41.740 And now you're a joke, dependent on foreign-owned banks.

01:25:44.180 And you think that's because we...

01:25:45.020 But everyone's gay, so it's like a great trade.

01:25:46.820 So allowing gay people to be openly gay is why we wrecked our country.

01:25:51.360 Mocking masculinity is the fastest way to servitude.

01:25:56.000 Totally different issue.

01:25:56.300 Ask any Pakistani.

01:25:57.500 That's why I like the Pakistanis here.

01:25:59.120 You talk to a Pakistani cab driver and you're like, why are you gay?

01:26:02.140 And they will start laughing because they've watched the video and they're like, I'm not gay.

01:26:05.200 I'm a man.

01:26:06.840 Ask a single Briton, why are you gay?

01:26:08.560 They'd be like, well, I'm not gay, but it would be okay if I was.

01:26:11.240 And it's like, there's no masculine self-respect at all.

01:26:14.800 You're sounding quite homophobic.

01:26:16.840 I'm not afraid of gays at all.

01:26:18.380 I'm just asking, actually.

01:26:19.640 You don't actually think they really exist, by the sound of it.

01:26:23.020 Well, they exist.

01:26:24.100 No, but are they real?

01:26:25.200 Is their sexuality genuinely...

01:26:27.020 Are they sleeping with dudes?

01:26:28.300 Yeah, big time.

01:26:29.460 Well, and women.

01:26:30.180 Are they attracted to members of the right sex?

01:26:32.020 The lesbian thing is way overblown.

01:26:33.460 Actually, there are a lot of lesbians.

01:26:34.600 How many?

01:26:36.280 I haven't counted, Duncan.

01:26:37.580 Not recently.

01:26:38.160 I love this conversation.

01:26:39.040 Not recently.

01:26:39.640 This is so great.

01:26:40.400 You're going to get so fucking arrested after this.

01:26:42.500 It's going to be unbelievable.

01:26:43.300 No one's arresting me.

01:26:44.320 Okay.

01:26:44.860 No one's arresting me.

01:26:46.220 But I'm just curious whether you think the gay people actually...

01:26:48.700 Let me, let me, let me...

01:26:49.580 ...actually are gay or whether you think they've been somehow turned.

01:26:52.520 For the third time, I think it's completely sincere.

01:26:54.960 Right.

01:26:55.360 Completely sincere.

01:26:55.980 So what's your problem with it?

01:26:56.440 The question...

01:26:57.400 I'm not saying I have a problem with it.

01:26:58.880 I'm merely saying you get fewer children when more people are gay.

01:27:02.940 No, you don't.

01:27:04.360 Well, actually, you do.

01:27:05.540 More people aren't gay.

01:27:06.680 Just more people aren't able to admit they're gay.

01:27:08.980 You don't get...

01:27:09.000 Hold on.

01:27:09.520 You don't get fewer...

01:27:10.280 There are always gay people.

01:27:11.040 Stop.

01:27:11.380 Okay.

01:27:11.840 Was it like 30% of the population always, like in Roman times?

01:27:15.280 About 30%, would you say?

01:27:17.140 I'm just saying...

01:27:17.880 No, it was like this is...

01:27:19.180 The falling birth rates have nothing to do with gay people.

01:27:22.480 If you have more gays, do you have fewer children?

01:27:26.460 We don't have more gays.

01:27:28.140 We've got way more gays.

01:27:29.600 No, no.

01:27:30.060 We have more people who are not afraid to say they're gay.

01:27:33.160 They're letting their freak flag fly.

01:27:34.280 They are actually gay, Tucker.

01:27:36.180 They just haven't been able to admit it.

01:27:38.440 So why isn't that the case, like, in Asia?

01:27:41.840 What do you mean?

01:27:43.400 I don't think there's no Asian country.

01:27:45.060 And they're not all, like, putting gays in jail.

01:27:47.100 Malaysia might be.

01:27:48.380 Korea's not.

01:27:49.740 South Korea.

01:27:50.580 Why is their self-described homosexuality rate so much lower than yours?

01:27:55.200 Japan, same.

01:27:56.420 Because culturally, it is not a thing...

01:27:58.700 So it's genetic.

01:27:59.760 You think it's genetic?

01:28:00.500 No, it's cultural.

01:28:01.540 No, no.

01:28:01.880 People become gay.

01:28:02.960 The last World Cup...

01:28:03.760 How do people become gay?

01:28:05.000 Let me give you a second.

01:28:06.000 The World Cup is coming...

01:28:07.240 I'm talking about soccer.

01:28:08.300 I'm telling you why.

01:28:09.360 I'm talking about the gay thing.

01:28:10.180 I'm telling you why.

01:28:10.860 How do they become gay?

01:28:11.760 Why are you gay?

01:28:12.600 One in four countries in the last World Cup actually outlaw being homosexual.

01:28:18.600 It's a criminal offense.

01:28:19.660 Do you think that's right?

01:28:20.960 I don't care.

01:28:22.100 You should care.

01:28:22.760 Okay, I really care.

01:28:24.140 You've got people arrested for using the word faggot.

01:28:26.340 That's who I feel sorry for.

01:28:27.380 This chick from Britain.

01:28:28.980 Right.

01:28:29.440 So you feel very exercised about that.

01:28:31.460 She's in Great Britain.

01:28:32.620 She's not in some primitive theocracy.

01:28:34.200 Are you not as exercised about people being arrested and putting in a prison cell for their

01:28:37.900 sexuality if they're gay?

01:28:41.040 Why do you feel as angry about that?

01:28:42.540 Because it's not my culture.

01:28:43.640 It's not my country.

01:28:44.840 It's not.

01:28:45.340 Come on.

01:28:46.140 I'm not for arresting any...

01:28:47.740 I'm for arresting very few people.

01:28:48.900 You think people should be arrested for their sexuality?

01:28:50.680 Of course not.

01:28:51.540 So you agree with me?

01:28:53.300 Talk about...

01:28:54.060 Okay, I will...

01:28:55.080 As also a talk show host, you're not going to get me off my path.

01:28:58.820 And my path leads to this question.

01:29:00.920 How do people become gay?

01:29:03.980 Why...

01:29:04.460 They don't become gay.

01:29:05.940 What?

01:29:06.260 Are they born gay?

01:29:07.400 Yes.

01:29:08.600 How does that work?

01:29:09.640 They're born gay.

01:29:10.960 How?

01:29:11.660 They have a sexual attraction to their own sex.

01:29:13.320 No, no, no.

01:29:13.720 I understand the manifestations, the symptoms.

01:29:16.260 The symptoms?

01:29:17.180 Yeah, the symptoms.

01:29:17.960 The symptoms of my...

01:29:19.340 They're born gay.

01:29:20.600 Okay.

01:29:21.620 So that means it's genetic.

01:29:22.180 You may not want to...

01:29:22.980 No, no, that means...

01:29:23.820 Acknowledge that.

01:29:24.320 No, no.

01:29:24.600 I'm just asking how it works.

01:29:25.700 Or believe that.

01:29:26.020 So there's a gay gene.

01:29:27.740 You said you worked with lots of gay people.

01:29:28.760 No, no, no.

01:29:29.000 Hold on, hold on.

01:29:29.780 There's a gay gene?

01:29:30.400 Did you not have this conversation with actual gay people?

01:29:32.460 Yeah, a lot of them say I got molested.

01:29:33.860 That's why I'm gay.

01:29:34.860 In fact, a really good friend of mine who's gay said I got molested.

01:29:37.220 That's why I'm gay.

01:29:37.660 You think all gay people are gay because they got molested?

01:29:39.080 No, I don't think that.

01:29:40.320 But I am wondering...

01:29:41.680 I don't know the answer.

01:29:43.020 But I was...

01:29:43.880 I would say the absolute vast majority of gay people are gay because they are actually attracted

01:29:49.700 to members of their own sex.

01:29:51.040 No, no, no.

01:29:51.320 But again, that's a manifest...

01:29:52.240 Period.

01:29:52.560 It's a natural thing.

01:29:54.540 Let's just do science for 30 seconds.

01:29:56.920 Of course you're right.

01:29:57.940 That's the definition of gay.

01:29:59.020 I'm attracted to someone of my same sex.

01:30:00.500 But do you believe that?

01:30:01.860 Do I believe that they're attracted to people from their own sex?

01:30:03.580 No, yes.

01:30:04.160 Well, obviously, they have sex with them.

01:30:05.380 Okay.

01:30:05.680 So that's what attraction is.

01:30:06.320 So what's the big deal?

01:30:07.480 Why do you care?

01:30:08.220 My question...

01:30:09.340 Because the self-reported incidence of it has risen.

01:30:13.720 So we were told 30 years ago, and I have a good memory, it's about 10%.

01:30:17.660 But the actual self-reported...

01:30:18.620 Because people will be mercilessly moxed for it.

01:30:20.180 Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen.

01:30:21.840 Then...

01:30:22.200 But the self-reported rate was like 5%.

01:30:23.400 Then it's 10%.

01:30:23.880 Now it's like 30%.

01:30:24.780 So my question is, were they all born that way?

01:30:28.400 30% of a population is born homosexual?

01:30:31.680 As an evolutionary matter, you tell me how that works.

01:30:34.360 How do you reproduce?

01:30:35.080 It's not 30% of the population.

01:30:36.580 In the United States, in a lot of places, it is.

01:30:38.120 30%.

01:30:38.480 It's not here.

01:30:39.720 Not 30%.

01:30:40.520 It's way higher here based on the vibe.

01:30:42.840 What is way higher is the number of people compared to 30...

01:30:45.240 But where does it come from?

01:30:45.980 30 years ago...

01:30:47.240 Is it genetic?

01:30:47.940 And where's the gene?

01:30:48.460 30 years ago, gay people were persecuted.

01:30:51.060 I know.

01:30:51.520 I've heard the story.

01:30:52.440 No, they were persecuted.

01:30:52.880 We were commemorating Stonewall the other day at my house.

01:30:55.100 You know, I'm on board with all of this stuff.

01:30:57.680 Yeah, the candlelight vigil, we always do it every year.

01:30:59.540 Every February 9th, I arrest my kids in this kind of mock Stonewall thing.

01:31:04.280 What do you do if one of your kids...

01:31:05.220 They say, I just want to be free, and then I unlock the handcuffs.

01:31:08.480 What happens if one of your kids says they're gay?

01:31:10.680 I love my kids no matter what.

01:31:11.860 I love my kids no matter what they do.

01:31:13.240 They're my children.

01:31:15.020 Would you think someone had turned them into a gay person?

01:31:17.800 Or would you accept that was a natural thing?

01:31:18.720 I'm a journalist, so I actually wonder what the real answer is, not the bullshit propaganda answer.

01:31:23.380 What would you say to them?

01:31:24.640 I don't know.

01:31:25.280 That's why I'm asking you.

01:31:26.340 You say people are born gay.

01:31:27.620 I'm asking you what you would do.

01:31:28.380 You don't want to answer because you don't have an answer because you know that your answer's bullshit.

01:31:31.980 No, my answer's correct.

01:31:33.140 That they're born that way.

01:31:34.220 They're born gay.

01:31:34.880 Then is there a gene for it?

01:31:37.180 And you know there isn't.

01:31:38.320 A gene.

01:31:38.620 So tell me, a gene, it's the code that determines your physical and emotional characteristics.

01:31:45.640 You have blue eyes because you have a gene for blue eyes.

01:31:47.600 Right.

01:31:47.760 If someone is gay, then there should be a gene that we can isolate and say it's the gay gene.

01:31:52.860 And science has been looking for the gay gene for a long time.

01:31:54.940 And my question is, where is it?

01:31:56.560 I'm waiting on my gay gene.

01:31:57.640 I ordered a gay gene.

01:31:58.640 And it hasn't arrived yet.

01:31:59.780 Waiter, where's my gay gene?

01:32:01.020 Sounds to me like you might be.

01:32:02.640 Yeah, I'm waiting for my gay gene.

01:32:04.320 And if there isn't a gay gene, then it's totally within bounds.

01:32:07.200 It's not homophobia.

01:32:08.140 It's not hate.

01:32:08.640 I don't want to arrest people in Liberia or whatever the hell you're talking about.

01:32:13.080 I just want to know, what is this?

01:32:15.220 And no one will answer the question.

01:32:16.540 And I don't know why.

01:32:18.280 It's weird, right?

01:32:19.280 Why can't we have a non-emotional conversation with them?

01:32:21.060 Why are you gay?

01:32:22.740 As they say in Nigeria, why are you gay?

01:32:24.700 And no one will answer it.

01:32:25.720 Well, in Nigeria, it's a criminal offense to be gay.

01:32:28.280 I don't know.

01:32:28.980 You think there aren't gay people in Nigeria?

01:32:30.520 Of course there are.

01:32:31.100 I haven't been there in a while.

01:32:32.180 Of course there are gay people in Nigeria.

01:32:33.580 Where does it come from?

01:32:34.340 But they can't admit they're gay.

01:32:34.820 And you can't answer the question.

01:32:35.940 Because if they admit they're gay, they get put in prison.

01:32:38.900 That can't be right, right?

01:32:40.120 You're a guy who doesn't believe in the gun.

01:32:40.980 No, why are you putting someone in prison because he says he's gay?

01:32:43.520 Of course I'm against that.

01:32:46.540 I'm pointing to an extreme third world.

01:32:49.060 You guys don't bring Nigerians here, do you?

01:32:51.600 We have a lot of Nigerians here.

01:32:52.840 What?

01:32:54.260 You import gay haters into your country?

01:32:56.420 I thought you were for the gays.

01:32:58.500 No, I'm serious.

01:32:59.260 Why would you import?

01:33:00.140 You're just telling me that the Nigerians are bad.

01:33:01.980 You said you basically hate Nigerians because they hate the gays.

01:33:03.240 As you know, Tucker, there are lots of countries around the world with different laws to hear.

01:33:06.640 But why would you import them?

01:33:08.020 If you love the gays, why would you import people?

01:33:10.180 Because when they come here, they have to abide by our laws.

01:33:13.340 That's how it works.

01:33:14.140 And your values.

01:33:15.080 So what are those values?

01:33:15.920 No, actually, you don't have to come here with our values.

01:33:18.660 Oh.

01:33:19.000 You have to come here and abide by our laws.

01:33:22.220 And your laws include not using the word faggot.

01:33:24.580 That's against the law.

01:33:25.320 I just think, why would you do that and just be offensive for the sake of it?

01:33:28.260 I totally agree with you.

01:33:29.420 I never use that word.

01:33:30.340 I'm just being honest.

01:33:30.960 I never use that word.

01:33:31.660 Right.

01:33:31.880 Ever.

01:33:32.820 I think that's maybe the first time I've used it since the 80s.

01:33:34.640 But it's not a matter of custom.

01:33:36.720 It's a matter of law because this woman, mother of four, wound up in prison for it.

01:33:41.240 So if that's going to be the law, it's obviously like the most important.

01:33:45.920 It's so important to you that people not insult gays in any way.

01:33:49.320 You can insult straights.

01:33:50.540 You can insult gays as much as you like.

01:33:52.240 Well, no, you can't.

01:33:53.220 You get arrested.

01:33:53.840 You go to jail.

01:33:54.100 Well, I don't know that story.

01:33:54.900 I'm going to look into it.

01:33:55.500 But as I said to you.

01:33:56.760 I'm going to hand it to you right here.

01:33:57.980 Here it is.

01:33:58.400 I don't think people should be arrested for using words like that.

01:34:01.260 I agree.

01:34:01.900 There should be social disapproval.

01:34:03.060 You should be allowed to be hateful under freedom of speech.

01:34:06.720 I totally agree.

01:34:07.560 You know, they're not actually inciting violence against people, which is a different thing.

01:34:11.500 I agree.

01:34:11.900 We should agree.

01:34:12.640 If I say, go and stab Tucker Carlson, and he's staying at this hotel right now.

01:34:17.080 I agree.

01:34:17.360 It's a criminal offense.

01:34:18.280 Totally.

01:34:18.580 There's already a law and statute in both our countries for that.

01:34:20.780 So I can tell that we were both born in the 1960s because we totally agree on the underlying

01:34:24.880 human right, which is the core human right, which is the right to conscience and self-expression.

01:34:30.400 And both of us are on exactly the same page.

01:34:32.400 Where I lose you is your whole world is crumbling around you.

01:34:36.360 I'm worried that's going to happen in my country, which is why I'm hassling you.

01:34:39.160 My whole world's great.

01:34:40.580 In fact, it couldn't be better.

01:34:41.360 The restaurants are better.

01:34:42.140 I totally get it.

01:34:43.120 That's what matters.

01:34:43.960 If I'd known you were in town yesterday, I'd have taken you to the Emirates Stadium to

01:34:47.080 watch my football team, Arsenal, beat our North London rivals for one.

01:34:50.360 It's not even football.

01:34:50.680 It's like-

01:34:50.900 It was the most joyous, magnificent experience imaginable.

01:34:55.120 You would have seen a multicultural crowd roaring as one.

01:34:59.960 It's incredible.

01:35:00.660 Jews, Muslims, white, black, gay, straight, all joined as one as Arsenal fans.

01:35:08.000 It's what the church used to be.

01:35:09.120 In an explosion for joy.

01:35:09.460 Except they charge you admission.

01:35:11.100 I get it.

01:35:11.780 I know what Bretton Cerconson is doing.

01:35:13.000 Well, actually, the church used to charge you admission in the old box.

01:35:15.880 Well, we had Martin Luther for that, and we couldn't fix that.

01:35:19.280 And Henry VIII played along, so God bless you for that.

01:35:21.500 But here's the point.

01:35:23.940 No, but here's my point.

01:35:24.880 If I took you to the Devonshire for a pint of Guinness, you'd love it.

01:35:28.220 If I took you to Arsenal, to a massive multicultural stadium with fans, you'd love it.

01:35:32.440 60,000 people, no trouble, no aggravation.

01:35:35.320 I'm here voluntarily.

01:35:36.440 I love it.

01:35:37.020 I know.

01:35:37.220 I just don't want it to evaporate.

01:35:39.480 It's not evaporating.

01:35:40.480 Okay.

01:35:40.940 We have challenges.

01:35:41.440 Why aren't you more panicked that thousands of people, thousands, by their own admission,

01:35:46.940 the admission of the British government, arrested every year for saying words, not threats, words.

01:35:52.220 I am.

01:35:52.480 I've expressed my-

01:35:53.000 So why doesn't someone try to overthrow the government?

01:35:54.800 I don't understand.

01:35:55.700 How can they treat you like slaves?

01:35:56.980 If they carry on down that road.

01:35:58.600 Well, they are carrying it on.

01:35:59.440 It's thousands a year, and it's getting more.

01:36:00.980 Then they will be voted out of office.

01:36:02.380 Voted out?

01:36:02.920 I guarantee it.

01:36:03.260 Yes.

01:36:04.440 That's how we do it.

01:36:04.720 Is that what Winston Churchill would say?

01:36:05.940 I think Winston Churchill said, even if a strong man tries to take Poland, a country

01:36:10.500 we've got nothing to do with, it's not even close to here, we're going to risk the lives

01:36:14.660 of our citizens to liberate Poland.

01:36:18.180 Poland is closer to here than your home is to New York.

01:36:21.320 Yes, that's true.

01:36:22.100 That's true.

01:36:22.520 So it's all relative.

01:36:23.760 So if-

01:36:24.040 Well, it's a tiny little Lego Europe.

01:36:25.720 I get it.

01:36:26.160 If Maine got attacked, would you expect people in New York to help you?

01:36:28.000 Poland has nothing to do with-

01:36:29.120 Right on.

01:36:29.480 If Maine got attacked, would you expect people in New York to help you?

01:36:32.460 It's the same country.

01:36:33.460 Okay.

01:36:34.700 But you're actually-

01:36:35.560 Kind of a big distinction.

01:36:37.160 My country's quite large.

01:36:38.440 We were part of Europe, the same continent.

01:36:40.180 You were not part of-

01:36:41.020 I call bullshit on that.

01:36:43.180 Really?

01:36:43.440 In 1940, you were not part of Europe.

01:36:45.240 You don't think-

01:36:45.820 Well, of course-

01:36:46.340 You were definitely not part of-

01:36:47.460 We're on the continent of Europe.

01:36:48.900 You are not on the continent.

01:36:49.900 If you're an island, dude, off the continent, separated by a body of water, do you know

01:36:54.780 what it's called between you and France?

01:36:55.980 It's called the English Channel.

01:36:57.060 I know what it's-

01:36:57.340 You are not part of Europe.

01:36:58.600 That is not true.

01:36:59.560 We are part of Europe.

01:36:59.960 My ancestors lived here.

01:37:00.940 You were not-

01:37:01.400 You were England.

01:37:02.000 We are part of Europe.

01:37:02.980 France was considered exotic and crazy.

01:37:05.000 That's where the prostitutes and the cheese eaters lived.

01:37:07.220 It's only the brainwashing of Tony Blair and all these technocrats since who have convinced

01:37:10.980 you are European.

01:37:11.900 You're way better than European.

01:37:14.440 You're an ancient Germanic Celtic people who ruled the world.

01:37:17.800 Do you remember that in your wooden ships?

01:37:19.900 Oh, anyway.

01:37:21.160 But the point is, the point-

01:37:24.780 No, I'm serious.

01:37:26.020 You did.

01:37:27.040 You did some crap sometimes.

01:37:27.960 No, it's-

01:37:28.820 Anyway, it's-

01:37:29.400 It's totally real.

01:37:30.440 Come on.

01:37:30.980 With the mass from Maine, White Pines.

01:37:32.680 But the point is, your country went to war to preserve human rights in another country

01:37:39.700 you had nothing to do with, but human rights are evaporating in your own country.

01:37:43.980 And it's cool because you have soccer games with foreigners at them and good burrata.

01:37:48.040 Yeah.

01:37:48.220 And I'm just saying, maybe something about the heroic British spirit has been diminished

01:37:52.020 with time.

01:37:52.560 That's all I'm saying.

01:37:52.960 But there is a very lovely, quaint notion being built up in the United States, driven

01:37:57.440 by people like Tommy Robinson here.

01:37:59.200 Who's Tommy Robinson?

01:38:00.380 You know Tommy Robinson.

01:38:01.300 He seems like a fraud to me.

01:38:02.540 Well, he's not even Tommy Robinson.

01:38:03.720 His name's Stephen Yaxley.

01:38:05.280 It's not even his real name.

01:38:06.940 He's also convicted of multiple crimes, thuggery, fraud.

01:38:10.920 I don't even know anything about him, but he doesn't seem like he's that into Britain.

01:38:14.340 We would call him a little shit stirrer, right?

01:38:16.780 However, he has-

01:38:17.380 But the real people here, the actual Britons still here.

01:38:19.680 But this idea that he's driven, that we're on the verge of some sort of civil war here.

01:38:24.100 Do you feel that when you walk around?

01:38:25.540 No, because that's my point.

01:38:26.520 You're so passive.

01:38:27.480 We're not passive.

01:38:27.980 They take your human rights away.

01:38:29.480 And you're like, oh, defending Ukraine is so important.

01:38:31.740 We're so proud to have defended Poland's territorial integrity 80 years ago.

01:38:35.300 It's like, great.

01:38:36.000 I'm so glad.

01:38:36.660 I'm very proud of that.

01:38:37.920 Apparently.

01:38:38.320 But it's all a kind of displacement where you're taking your own frustrations with yourselves

01:38:43.780 and your own cowardice and sort of living in this Walter Mitty world.

01:38:47.520 We're like, no, actually, we're brave.

01:38:48.480 We're going to defend Ukraine.

01:38:49.580 It's like, what about defend yourselves against the monsters?

01:38:52.600 What's wrong with defending Ukraine?

01:38:54.900 It's like eighth on the list.

01:38:56.400 Defend yourself.

01:38:57.500 Defend your human rights.

01:38:58.540 They can't put you in jail for saying naughty words.

01:39:00.680 Sure.

01:39:01.240 Period.

01:39:01.720 I agree.

01:39:02.420 So march on the Capitol.

01:39:03.660 Get these people out.

01:39:04.500 Scare them.

01:39:05.140 Yeah.

01:39:05.320 Do to them what you did to the Germans in Poland, which you would like to do to the

01:39:11.440 Russians in Western Ukraine.

01:39:12.120 But the way it works, we are a democratic society with a democratic government.

01:39:16.400 How is it democratic?

01:39:17.180 Nobody wants the invasion.

01:39:19.160 If a government overreaches, and I think on free speech, they've lost the plot.

01:39:23.040 If they do, they will get, I can guarantee you, voted out of-

01:39:26.100 When was the last time Britons voted for millions of foreigners to come to their country?

01:39:31.560 Well, you don't.

01:39:31.980 You vote for a government that makes decisions.

01:39:32.920 Well, you don't ever vote for that.

01:39:33.960 So the biggest thing that's ever happened in your history, nobody voted for.

01:39:37.860 People flag up what their policies are going to be.

01:39:40.360 But actually, what it's been is a systematic failure to control our borders going back,

01:39:44.800 I would say, 25 years.

01:39:46.380 That's really what's happened.

01:39:47.400 Just all I'm saying is it doesn't seem democratic.

01:39:49.300 It doesn't seem that's what the people want at all.

01:39:51.760 I agree.

01:39:52.500 It's now become a massive issue.

01:39:54.860 And the big issue, actually, is because they put a lot of these so-called asylum seekers,

01:40:00.000 and many of them are not.

01:40:01.120 They're economic seekers who want a better life here.

01:40:04.360 I don't blame them.

01:40:05.280 It's a great country to come to.

01:40:06.960 But a lot of them are being put in really nice quality hotels,

01:40:11.140 and while they're being processed, sometimes for two years, three years,

01:40:14.620 they're living a very comfortable, luxurious life in neighbourhoods where there is real abject poverty.

01:40:21.320 And that is what is causing a lot of unrest, and I get that.

01:40:25.120 And I have great sympathy with the people who live in those areas

01:40:27.820 who are really struggling to feed their kids,

01:40:30.200 who are seeing these people coming in on the boats illegally and being put in fancy hotels.

01:40:35.540 That has to stop.

01:40:37.040 And you also have to process these people a lot quicker for their sake and for the country's.

01:40:41.260 Are you a genuine asylum seeker?

01:40:42.880 I never want this country to be a place that rejects genuine asylum seekers.

01:40:46.560 Why?

01:40:46.860 Well, because actually, I believe that we have a duty to take care of people

01:40:51.200 who are genuinely fleeing.

01:40:52.300 How about your own people?

01:40:53.220 What about fleeing war-torn countries where we started the war?

01:40:56.240 Stop starting wars.

01:40:57.320 You're doing it again.

01:40:58.440 Okay, but one of us opposed the Iraq war at the time, and it wasn't you.

01:41:02.020 I've been atoning for it ever since.

01:41:03.700 I was one of the worst offenders.

01:41:04.800 But I led the campaign here against the Iraq war.

01:41:07.200 It cost me my job in the end.

01:41:08.860 Good for you.

01:41:09.980 I led a front-page assault on that for a year.

01:41:11.600 You should stick with that.

01:41:12.660 You should stick with that.

01:41:13.380 Well, I agree.

01:41:13.760 I take a lot of…

01:41:15.080 I like to look at each war in isolation.

01:41:18.200 Well, I do.

01:41:19.000 I do.

01:41:19.340 I get it.

01:41:19.700 I get it.

01:41:21.200 Piers Morgan, I know you've got a job.

01:41:22.980 You've been so gracious in defending your country.

01:41:25.840 By the way, I meant to start with this.

01:41:30.120 Until today, I had no idea that you appeared on Dancing with the Stars.

01:41:34.480 I didn't.

01:41:34.980 That's AI.

01:41:35.700 Somebody tweeted the clip today with two friends of mine,

01:41:39.440 Len Goodman, sadly no longer with us, Bruno Toglioli,

01:41:42.900 ripping you a new one.

01:41:44.420 Of course.

01:41:45.060 For your dancing.

01:41:46.660 I don't really think their attacks had much to do with my appearance.

01:41:49.680 You are many things.

01:41:50.480 I'm just suspecting.

01:41:51.660 Well, you are many…

01:41:52.640 Well, I've got to be…

01:41:53.740 There was a point.

01:41:54.540 You didn't really do much dancing.

01:41:56.540 And as Bruno put it, the problem started when you actually danced.

01:41:59.720 You know, honestly…

01:42:01.280 Has your dancing improved?

01:42:02.580 My dancing is pretty good.

01:42:04.680 I have a little trouble taking instruction.

01:42:06.680 But, you know, I would just say what they always say

01:42:09.660 when the nude pictures of the porno tape emerge years later.

01:42:12.200 I was young and I needed the money.

01:42:14.200 Okay.

01:42:15.960 Pierce Morgan, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for spending all this time.

01:42:18.440 Welcome to my lovely country.

01:42:19.500 Great to see you.

01:42:19.920 It is a lovely country.

01:42:21.840 Actually, I just have to say that.

01:42:22.920 Go and have a walk out of there.

01:42:23.880 Go and have a pint in the Devonshire.

01:42:25.280 I'll take you to the next Arsenal game.

01:42:26.660 You'll love it.

01:42:28.020 Thank you.

01:42:28.460 Christmas is back and so is our merchandise shop at TCN.

01:42:36.340 Visit tuckercarlson.com to see what we have to offer.

01:42:39.880 And it's awesome.

01:42:40.960 Everyone has a long list of people they need to shop for this Christmas.

01:42:43.560 Our new line can help you brighten the day with gifts they will actually love.

01:42:48.040 Not the kind they're going to throw away or thank you for but not mean it.

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01:42:59.840 Dozens of new styles and designs perfect for the gift giving and spreading the Christmas spirit.

01:43:04.180 That's tuckercarlson.com.

01:43:06.600 We hope you have the very best Christmas.

The Tucker Carlson Show - November 27, 2025

Tucker Puts Piers Morgan’s Views on Free Speech to the Ultimate Test

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