The Tucker Carlson Show - What If Everything You Were Told About America’s “Closest Ally” Is Wrong？

00:00:00.520 America has one great ally in the world, its chief ally. By some calculations, maybe it's only real ally, and that's the state of Israel.

00:00:08.720 And that has been the case for a long time. In fact, so long that few people question whether that's a good idea or why exactly that is.

00:00:16.460 Everyone knows our closest ally is Israel, and we have all kinds of military and economic ties to Israel.

00:00:22.780 But the main way you know Israel is our closest ally is that really up until just the other day, there was not a scenario you could conjure in your head in which the United States would take the side of any other country over Israel.

00:00:36.580 That just couldn't happen. So Israel's our chief ally. Hasn't always been this way. Of course, Israel didn't exist until right after the Second World War.

00:00:44.560 So it's all pretty new, and it's accelerated with every decade. We've become closer and closer to Israel.

00:00:48.920 Our commitment, not our legal commitment or publicly discussed commitment, but our in effect commitment, our on-the-ground commitment to Israel has become stronger every year.

00:00:58.440 But there's no reason that should stay the way it is forever. What if we decided to change it up? What if we decided to get a new closest ally in the world?

00:01:09.040 How about Qatar? What if Qatar was our closest ally?

00:01:13.340 Flip that one at the next dinner party you go to. People will respond strongly, especially if they're Fox News viewers.

00:01:21.020 What? Are you an Islamist? Qatar? The bloodthirsty Islamofascist state? 1.00

00:01:29.240 What are you getting paid by the Qatar lobby? A quack?

00:01:32.380 Of course, there is no actual a quack, but if there was a Qatar lobby, it should be called a quack. 1.00

00:01:39.920 And then you would be forced to explain why Qatar should be our closest ally. 0.74

00:01:45.320 And of course, people would look at you like you were insane, in fact, dangerous and probably anti-American.

00:01:50.680 But let's just take Qatar out of it for a second. 0.56

00:01:53.500 How do you think about, if you're the United States, who ought to be your closest ally?

00:01:58.840 Who gets that job? Who do you take to the prom? 1.00

00:02:00.520 And it depends on how you think about it.

00:02:03.640 If you think about it through the lens of American interest, which is to say, what's good for us?

00:02:07.900 Then it's a very different picture. What's good for us?

00:02:09.640 Well, you would want a country that had, I don't know, natural resources that you might want to have access to.

00:02:15.880 Energy, probably first and foremost, but maybe not.

00:02:19.800 Minerals, too.

00:02:21.020 But certainly energy, oil and gas, because we need them, despite what they may tell you, to continue our civilization and to be strong and prosperous.

00:02:27.560 So a big energy supply would be important.

00:02:29.880 A powerful military might also help.

00:02:32.060 And to have a powerful military, of course, you need a big population to man the military, as Ukraine, unfortunately, is finding out now.

00:02:38.600 It helps to have a lot of people.

00:02:39.600 So there are a couple of different countries you might throw out there.

00:02:43.260 If you are looking purely through the lens of what's good for the United States, an America-first perspective, the most obvious, of course, would be Russia. 0.89

00:02:50.960 Russia!

00:02:52.360 Why? Because it's the biggest country in the world.

00:02:54.060 It's the biggest landmass in the world.

00:02:55.360 And it has enormous mineral deposits, energy deposits.

00:03:00.260 It's got a lot of oil and gas and gold and everything else you need to run a society.

00:03:05.620 And it also has a formidable military, by far the biggest on that continent, on the European continent, and huge manufacturing capacity.

00:03:13.520 So, like, if you needed an ally to help you in a conflict, or if you needed a country in which to stage a fight with some other country, a place to put air bases, for example, Russia would be, like, the best, of course.

00:03:26.860 But we can't be allied with Russia because Russia's bad. 0.61

00:03:29.520 They're immoral. 1.00

00:03:30.820 They're bad. 0.87

00:03:32.300 You might also say, well, Venezuela.

00:03:34.100 Why Venezuela?

00:03:35.860 Well, because they have the largest proven oil reserves in the world.

00:03:39.440 They're in our hemisphere. 0.90

00:03:40.640 Here, I don't know, lots of natural resources.

00:03:43.920 It's right there.

00:03:44.580 Why not make them a big ally?

00:03:46.140 Talk about a place for military bases and trade, and that might help us.

00:03:50.500 They've got a lot that we might benefit from if we wanted to help our country.

00:03:54.560 You can't!

00:03:55.280 They're bad!

00:03:56.200 They're so bad, we're going to invade them! 0.99

00:03:57.980 They're so immoral, we have to go to war with them. 0.98

00:04:00.280 We cannot be allies with them. 0.56

00:04:02.080 We have to fight them.

00:04:03.540 That's how immoral they are.

00:04:05.780 Hmm.

00:04:06.460 Okay.

00:04:07.560 Well, at a certain point, you get to places like, I don't know, Equatorial Guinea.

00:04:11.500 You know, probably not a beacon of democracy.

00:04:14.400 Small country, tons of energy, though.

00:04:16.720 And then the more obvious ones, like Saudi Arabia, or UAE, or Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, the

00:04:23.680 rest of the Gulf states.

00:04:24.580 Like, those might all be good.

00:04:26.240 We don't have their same form of government.

00:04:28.380 Those are all monarchies.

00:04:29.660 Six monarchies clustered next to each other, but all of them have a ton of energy.

00:04:33.440 And they're all pretty pro-American, and they're in an important part of the world.

00:04:37.300 So it's not a matter of being a Qatari nationalist or trying to promote Qatar.

00:04:41.520 As you think about who should be an ally of your nation, you think about your nation.

00:04:46.720 What's good for us?

00:04:48.300 How do we serve our people, our citizens, the people who voted for us, who pay for all

00:04:51.360 of this?

00:04:51.720 Like, what's in their interest?

00:04:54.020 And Qatar just seems like an obvious one, but it doesn't have to be the only one.

00:04:57.600 And the only reason we're choosing it tonight is because there's so much falseness about

00:05:02.900 Qatar.

00:05:03.240 If you watch Fox News, you know Qatar is evil, and they're secretly running the United States. 1.00

00:05:08.340 They probably don't tell you that their owner was just in Qatar trying to raise money, which

00:05:12.300 is not an attack on their owner.

00:05:14.900 It's merely an acknowledgment of what everyone who doesn't watch Fox News all day knows, which

00:05:19.500 is Qatar is part of the world.

00:05:22.420 And lots of people go there.

00:05:24.200 We were there two days ago.

00:05:25.300 So was Hillary Clinton.

00:05:27.420 So was Bill Gates looking kind of cadaverous.

00:05:30.980 And it's not because we love Hillary Clinton or Bill Gates who were there.

00:05:33.200 It's because, like, everyone's there.

00:05:34.340 And if you want to interview people, you should probably go to Qatar because everyone's there.

00:05:38.080 And why is everyone there?

00:05:40.220 Because it's a pretty open society because they have a lot of stuff going on, and they've

00:05:44.020 got a lot of resources, and they welcome people to talk about things in their country.

00:05:47.880 That's not bad.

00:05:48.440 Those are not bad things.

00:05:50.280 Why are we being told Qatar is so bad?

00:05:52.280 Well, of course, for the same reason we hear a lot of countries are bad, because if we have

00:05:56.400 other strong allies, that might affect the interest of our only ally, which would be Israel.

00:06:02.540 And so just for fun, just like a little exercise in Islamism, this is not an endorsement of

00:06:09.260 Islamic terror, it's kind of interesting to go through the criteria, the facts about these

00:06:14.360 countries, compare Israel to, say, Qatar, and you decide for yourself what you think might be a

00:06:21.720 more useful ally for the United States to have, maybe even a chief ally.

00:06:25.500 And these are all facts, as far as we know.

00:06:28.880 Of course, feel free to look them up.

00:06:31.200 Check our facts against Wikipedia or whatever, Grokipedia.

00:06:35.900 Go there, by the way.

00:06:37.080 You should go to Qatar.

00:06:38.520 Wander around for a day or two.

00:06:40.700 You can fly in the world's greatest airline, by the way, as you get there, which is Starlink

00:06:43.520 the entire way.

00:06:44.380 There's a lot of good stuff about Qatar.

00:06:45.840 Good food, nice people.

00:06:47.180 But just go there.

00:06:48.060 Don't take our word for it.

00:06:49.660 If you're being told that, you know, Qatar is this hellscape with slave markets and women in 0.87

00:06:55.420 burkas or whatever, spend a weekend.

00:06:58.200 See for yourself.

00:06:59.020 You're not encouraged to do that.

00:07:00.000 You're never encouraged to see anything for yourself.

00:07:02.940 Don't do your own research.

00:07:05.140 Trust the science.

00:07:06.480 Trust our view.

00:07:07.840 Trust the two-minute clip we put on Twitter. 0.68

00:07:09.600 And if you don't agree with that, then you're obviously Islamist, Nazi, racist, whatever. 0.95

00:07:14.820 We're going to attack your character. 0.89

00:07:16.500 But for once, like, see for yourself.

00:07:18.060 So here are some of the differences between Qatar and Israel.

00:07:22.240 Again, this is not an attack in Israel, for sure.

00:07:24.740 And it's not promoting Qatar.

00:07:26.820 It's just trying our best to promote our country, which could use allies right about now.

00:07:32.000 So the first is resources.

00:07:33.680 And Israel has basically no resources at all.

00:07:36.820 I mean, its gasoline comes from Azerbaijan.

00:07:39.140 I mean, it needs to import basically everything that it uses.

00:07:42.580 Not everything.

00:07:43.220 We've got a thriving tech sector.

00:07:44.440 But for natural resources, they are very, very limited.

00:07:46.680 And that would include water.

00:07:48.060 Qatar has, well, some of the largest natural gas reserves in the world in their famous north gas field.

00:07:57.520 And they are the, I think, number one LNG exporter to Europe.

00:08:02.580 And one of the biggest, certainly, to Asia.

00:08:05.440 Liquified natural gas.

00:08:07.060 It's what a lot of the world runs on.

00:08:08.920 And it's also where a lot of consumer products come from because it's converted to plastics, polyethylene, and many other things.

00:08:16.520 So, like, having a lot of natural gas is not just something that makes you rich.

00:08:19.840 It's something that is really good for your country, your economy, and it can help your friends.

00:08:24.780 So, that's the first thing to know.

00:08:27.860 Qatar has a ton of natural resources.

00:08:30.360 Israel has no natural resources.

00:08:33.700 Okay.

00:08:34.020 The second thing to know is that Qatar is a very enthusiastic investor in the United States.

00:08:41.040 So, that's being spun as a bad thing.

00:08:42.680 They're trying to take over our society.

00:08:44.600 Now, if you've been in the U.S. recently and wandered around and noticed it becoming markedly more Qatari, 0.90

00:08:50.680 send us an email and tell us where you went because we haven't noticed that, actually.

00:08:54.580 Qatar is, in fact, quite a socially conservative society, in contrast to, say, Tel Aviv,

00:09:01.160 which has got to be the world capital for drag queen story hours. 1.00

00:09:05.360 Qatar is the opposite of that. 0.91

00:09:07.440 Yes, women are not covered and can drive and go out without an escort and all that stuff you hear about taking place in the Gulf. 0.99

00:09:14.140 It doesn't actually take place in the Gulf anymore, but it definitely doesn't take place in Qatar,

00:09:17.260 which by regional standards is very liberal, but by American, Western standards is actually pretty traditional.

00:09:23.720 So, they don't have a lot of pride parades in Qatar.

00:09:26.260 Let's see, none.

00:09:28.080 Qatari diplomats, ask them, ask anybody when they're posted to the West, U.S., Canada, Great Britain.

00:09:35.000 They send their kids to Christian schools because, not because they're Christian, they're Muslims, 0.99

00:09:38.840 but because they're more socially conservative.

00:09:42.080 They don't have government-subsidized abortion on demand in Qatar, as Israel does.

00:09:48.420 But, they basically have, in a lot of ways, the same social values, broadly speaking, of course.

00:09:56.600 They're not Christian, they're Muslim. 1.00

00:09:58.440 But, broadly speaking, very similar social values to a lot of Trump voters.

00:10:03.500 There's a big emphasis on marriage and spending time with your family.

00:10:06.760 I'm not trying to talk it up too much.

00:10:07.840 It's different.

00:10:08.540 It's not my culture.

00:10:09.360 But, I guess the point is, if Qatar was really in charge of our culture, it wouldn't look like this. 0.78

00:10:18.840 At all.

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00:14:27.380 So, but they're investing in a lot of businesses.

00:14:29.140 Qatar has pledged $500 billion in investment.

00:14:31.940 I think they put about $150 billion in so far.

00:14:34.980 We'll see if they make good on the other $350 billion.

00:14:37.740 But $150 billion is a lot.

00:14:39.420 You can say that's a bad thing, but tell us how and why.

00:14:43.880 Unless they're subverting our values to make them more cuttery or whatever.

00:14:48.220 Unless AQUAC has been subverting our values. 0.94

00:14:51.520 It's probably not bad to have other people invest in your country, especially in the brink

00:14:56.720 of a recession, maybe.

00:14:58.300 How much does Israel invest in the country?

00:15:00.160 Well, actually, Israel's on the other side of the ledger. 0.85

00:15:03.160 Israel is a massive, massive net cost to the United States. 0.77

00:15:06.620 If you're not just the famous $3 billion, it's only $3 billion.

00:15:10.100 But the cost of defending, backstopping that country in every conflict in which it enters,

00:15:16.820 which is like, at this point, more than half a dozen.

00:15:19.640 I mean, where are they not having a war? 0.95

00:15:21.260 Who's paying for that? 0.60

00:15:22.200 Well, we are.

00:15:23.340 We are.

00:15:24.240 Every single year, going back, well, almost 80 years.

00:15:29.120 Every single one, trillions of dollars spent prosecuting wars on Israel's behalf or wars

00:15:36.280 that we wage at the behest of Israel, including the Iraq war, including whatever that was

00:15:42.140 in Syria, including the regime change war they are pushing the United States government

00:15:47.260 to have in Iran.

00:15:49.000 Those are costs.

00:15:49.980 Now, you could argue, well, we need to, because those wars make us safer, in case you're feeling

00:15:54.660 a lot safer than you did before 9-11.

00:15:56.860 So, I guess, but just in pure dollar terms, one country is a huge cost to the United States

00:16:05.220 treasury, and the other is a net addition.

00:16:08.180 So, that's one difference.

00:16:09.280 You want allies to help you once in a while.

00:16:11.660 So, let's say you have a war, especially one they asked you to get into.

00:16:15.140 You'd want them to send a lot of their troops, or at least a symbolic number of their troops.

00:16:18.760 How about no troops?

00:16:20.440 Ever, really.

00:16:21.780 Maybe I got that wrong.

00:16:22.640 Maybe a troop or two went, advisors or something, but basically no real help in any of these

00:16:28.820 wars.

00:16:29.940 Hmm.

00:16:30.660 Not attacking Israel here, by the way.

00:16:33.160 As always, they're doing what they think is best for them, which is great.

00:16:36.860 Godspeed.

00:16:38.480 But if we're going to do what's best for us, someone's going to have to explain why that's

00:16:42.600 best for us, because it's not obviously best for us.

00:16:46.700 So, then you really get to the question of values and morals.

00:16:54.280 This is the conversation that's happening right now.

00:16:57.220 And the idea is that you're not allowed to have the conversation that we're having right

00:16:59.940 now, because Qatar is just so morally repulsive, it's like Russia or Venezuela, that even to 0.97

00:17:05.880 consider, to talk about, to throw off the possibility of having an alliance with such

00:17:09.580 a country, it'd be like, maybe we should go to vacation in North Korea. 0.99

00:17:13.220 I mean, you're a freak. 1.00

00:17:14.040 You're some kind of outlaw. 0.99

00:17:17.040 How could you want that?

00:17:18.580 Are you defending Stalin again?

00:17:21.320 They're trying to make the possibility, the notion, so far out and discredited that no

00:17:26.360 one has the brass to even bring it up.

00:17:30.180 And the truth is, it's pretty hard to defend any system other than the American system at

00:17:35.840 its best, if you're an American, because it's our system.

00:17:38.840 We like our system.

00:17:40.020 I like our system.

00:17:40.740 I don't want even a parliamentary system like they have in the UK or Canada.

00:17:45.540 Why would you want that?

00:17:46.500 I like the American system.

00:17:47.960 So it's not a matter of preferring somebody else's system over ours.

00:17:53.020 It's merely a matter of batting down some of the absurd lies.

00:17:57.920 So Qatar, like every country in that region, the six Gulf monarchies, the fabled GCC, every

00:18:06.840 one of those countries is an Islamic state.

00:18:08.800 Islam is the official religion of the country.

00:18:11.140 And so in all of those countries, it's probably a bad idea, illegal, if not unacceptable, or

00:18:18.080 some variety of the two, to run around trying to convert people to, say, Christianity.

00:18:22.160 If you show up in downtown Doha with a bullhorn and a sign that says, repent and turn to Jesus,

00:18:26.840 probably somebody at some point is going to at least politely, or maybe not, tell you

00:18:30.240 to knock it off because this is an Islamic country.

00:18:32.240 By the way, the same thing is true in Israel.

00:18:34.000 I'm not attacking Israel.

00:18:35.260 It's a Jewish state.

00:18:36.840 They don't want you showing up in Israel and trying to convert a lot of Israelis to 1.00

00:18:39.940 Christianity.

00:18:40.580 They don't.

00:18:41.340 That was illegal.

00:18:42.280 I don't know if it still is or not, but it's certainly discouraged.

00:18:45.660 And the same is true in the Gulf, in Qatar, for example.

00:18:50.680 But if the deeper question is, where do Christians feel more comfortable in Qatar or Israel?

00:18:58.660 I mean, it's sort of hard to know what people actually think.

00:19:00.720 So maybe the best way to measure that is by where they live.

00:19:04.660 So there are twice as many Christians living in Qatar as there are in Israel.

00:19:11.720 Twice as many.

00:19:12.860 At least twice as many.

00:19:15.220 Did you know that?

00:19:16.520 Again, not promoting Qatar.

00:19:18.420 I'm not moving there.

00:19:20.420 But there are twice as many Christians living there.

00:19:22.740 So if it's like an ISIS state where people are beheaded for proclaiming the name of Jesus,

00:19:27.500 why are there twice as many in Qatar as there are in Israel?

00:19:31.200 And why are there so many Christian churches in Qatar?

00:19:35.640 All, or at least most, on land granted to them by the government.

00:19:40.420 Again, not promoting Qatar.

00:19:41.700 Just saying, if you're telling me that this is a country whose values are so far from mine

00:19:46.880 that even to go there is a crime of some kind, you're lying.

00:19:53.260 Or we have very different values.

00:19:55.220 Extremely different values.

00:19:56.420 So why are they telling me that?

00:20:01.200 They're telling me that because the status quo works for Israel.

00:20:09.100 It works.

00:20:10.080 So if there's any other country that might displace it, with whom we might form a stronger or as strong alliance,

00:20:17.200 if there's a rival for that loyalty, it's a massive threat to them.

00:20:22.700 And by the way, I understand that.

00:20:24.200 This is a tiny country involved in a lot of conflicts that has basically no real allies other than the United States.

00:20:32.520 So I hate to use the word because it's overused, but this is existential for Israel.

00:20:36.520 This is a huge deal for them.

00:20:37.740 It's not just a matter of preference.

00:20:38.760 This is like a lifeline.

00:20:40.860 And so you get it.

00:20:41.920 You absolutely get it.

00:20:42.800 But at some point, our interest, the interest of the country of 350 million, do have to play a role in this calculation.

00:20:50.280 And by that measure, this is not a good deal for the United States.

00:20:53.780 Because on the final question, this is the one that matters most, war, there is a massive difference.

00:21:01.560 Israel, as noted, is involved in half a dozen conflicts around the world in various stages.

00:21:10.280 And the United States is effectively paying for all of them.

00:21:15.180 Qatar, this terror state, is full-time involved in, actively involved in, paying for, resolving a lot of those conflicts, 0.89

00:21:27.120 including conflicts not even in its own region, like in Eastern Europe, the Ukraine-Russia conflict.

00:21:31.760 Where do you think those peace talks, especially the non-public negotiations, where do those take place?

00:21:37.760 Doha, Qatar.

00:21:38.300 Why?

00:21:39.860 Because they're willing to host them.

00:21:42.120 That's why.

00:21:43.700 And so if you have one country that's, every week it seems like, is bombing someone or declaring someone else a sworn enemy for eternity,

00:21:55.380 and using American tax dollars to fight those conflicts,

00:21:58.900 and then another country, which, whatever its motives, almost doesn't matter, is trying to resolve conflict and just get back to commerce, coexistence,

00:22:12.300 which is a better ally?

00:22:15.420 Are you joking?

00:22:16.080 So if you've gotten to this point in the video and not turned it off, muttering, Osama bin Laden sympathizer, are you Al-Qaeda?

00:22:26.300 Are you a Muslim?

00:22:27.020 No, no, none of those things.

00:22:31.380 Then here is the punchline.

00:22:35.300 The idea that Qatar should be our greatest ally? 0.84

00:22:38.820 Donald Trump seems to agree.

00:22:40.140 What?

00:22:42.460 Why have I not heard that before?

00:22:44.960 Because no one screaming about Qatar has any interest in telling you the truth, 0.91

00:22:49.180 which is that Donald Trump, who was elected on a peace program,

00:22:53.840 and it's been a little tougher than expected to make good on that, but still means it.

00:22:59.740 Donald Trump has taken sides in the Qatar-Israel dispute,

00:23:05.700 and it is actually more than a dispute.

00:23:07.640 It became a military conflict in September, on September 9th.

00:23:12.080 Israel bombed Qatar.

00:23:14.200 Bombed Qatar. 0.97

00:23:15.480 Qatar, by the way, is the site, in case you're wondering if they were an ally or not,

00:23:19.320 of the largest U.S. air base in the entire region.

00:23:23.840 Right outside Doha.

00:23:26.060 There are like 10,000-ish American troops who live in Qatar.

00:23:31.520 They bear a lot of costs for that, by the way.

00:23:33.140 It's a pretty nice thing to do.

00:23:34.180 It makes you a target when you have an American military base, 0.70

00:23:36.560 but they have the largest in the whole region.

00:23:39.680 So they are, by definition, close ally.

00:23:41.300 And Israel bombs them, kills people in downtown Doha,

00:23:45.520 like walking distance from the emir's house,

00:23:48.440 and doesn't apologize for it.

00:23:52.480 And why'd they do that?

00:23:53.380 Because Donald Trump was working to bring peace between Iran and Israel,

00:23:59.180 and Israel didn't want that at all.

00:24:00.640 And so they tried to murder the negotiators in that round of peace talks from Hamas in Doha.

00:24:10.620 And then they tried to tell the world that actually Trump signed off on this.

00:24:15.840 You know, Trump knew.

00:24:17.740 Totally false.

00:24:19.400 Trump did not know.

00:24:20.260 Not only did they do this, they tried to implicate Trump in it.

00:24:22.980 And he responded a couple of weeks later with an executive order.

00:24:26.280 I'm going to throw in my glasses and read this because it's,

00:24:29.660 I bet not one in a hundred people knows this even happened.

00:24:33.900 So this was at the end of September this year.

00:24:36.860 Listen to this.

00:24:37.480 He signed an executive order, and this is verbatim,

00:24:39.900 called the Assuring the Security of the State of Qatar.

00:24:44.360 So next time you hear someone on Fox News be like,

00:24:46.360 the terror state of Qatar, if only Trump knew.

00:24:48.700 Right.

00:24:50.060 Assuring the security of the state of Qatar.

00:24:51.680 And we're quoting.

00:24:52.700 Over the years, the United States and the state of Qatar have been bound together

00:24:55.920 by close cooperation, shared interests, and the close relationship between our armed forces.

00:25:01.480 The state of Qatar has hosted United States forces,

00:25:04.560 enabled critical security operations,

00:25:06.620 and stood as a steadfast ally in pursuit of peace, stability, and prosperity,

00:25:10.460 both in the Middle East and abroad,

00:25:12.140 including as a mediator that has assisted the United States' attempts

00:25:15.420 to resolve significant regional and global conflicts.

00:25:19.360 Listen to this.

00:25:20.140 In recognition of this history,

00:25:22.820 and in light of the continuing threats to the state of Qatar posed by foreign aggression,

00:25:28.060 it is the policy of the U.S. to guarantee the security and territorial integrity

00:25:32.600 of the state of Qatar against external attack.

00:25:36.480 The United States shall regard any armed attack on the territory, sovereignty,

00:25:40.280 or critical infrastructure of the state of Qatar

00:25:41.760 as a threat to the peace and security of the United States.

00:25:45.960 Oh.

00:25:47.980 Wait a second.

00:25:48.860 What was the last act of foreign aggression against Qatar?

00:25:53.920 Well, it happened that exact same month.

00:25:55.200 It was a bombing by Israel.

00:25:57.780 So Israel bombs Qatar, 0.85

00:25:59.820 and Donald Trump issues an executive order saying,

00:26:03.360 if you do that again,

00:26:04.920 reading by the language here,

00:26:06.740 we're going to war with you. 0.92

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00:29:25.220 Donald Trump took the side of Qatar over and above Israel and told Israel,

00:29:30.740 and who knows if he'd actually do it, hard to believe,

00:29:33.000 but it's in the executive order.

00:29:35.960 If you do this again,

00:29:38.360 that's tantamount to an attack on us.

00:29:40.660 That's a security guarantee.

00:29:42.860 That's unbelievable.

00:29:43.760 So keep that in mind because there are an awful lot of Trump voters,

00:29:48.340 really nice, sincere people who are still upset about 9-11.

00:29:53.240 The residue is still in their mouth.

00:29:55.060 That part of the world did it to us.

00:29:57.800 Islam did it to us. 1.00

00:29:59.740 And anyone who wants to have a normal relationship with an Islamic country is probably pro-Al Qaeda. 1.00

00:30:04.160 I get it.

00:30:06.880 I get it.

00:30:07.440 I know those feelings.

00:30:09.160 Had them.

00:30:10.540 But here's Donald Trump, the guy that you voted for,

00:30:13.480 taking Qatar's side against Israel.

00:30:15.100 And why is that?

00:30:16.300 Because Donald Trump is a secret Islamist?

00:30:18.240 No.

00:30:18.540 Because Qatar is a lot better for the United States than Israel has been. 0.99

00:30:26.680 A lot better by any measure.

00:30:28.920 And if you disagree, tell me a way in which Israel has been better for the United States than Qatar.

00:30:36.760 You could say, well, what about Jerusalem?

00:30:38.140 And that's an excellent point.

00:30:39.480 There's no city in the world more important or more beautiful,

00:30:43.240 more humming with spiritual energy than Jerusalem.

00:30:46.800 But Jerusalem existed before the state of Israel existed.

00:30:52.080 And it will, God willing, be there forever.

00:30:55.560 So that's a distinct thing, right?

00:30:58.760 That's a historical and spiritual site.

00:31:02.400 It has nothing to do with the government of Israel.

00:31:05.320 But tell me how the government of Israel has been better for us than the government of Qatar.

00:31:08.920 And, of course, you can't.

00:31:10.780 So you've got two options. 0.58

00:31:12.420 A, you can scream at people and call them Islamists and say you're not really a Christian.

00:31:18.120 You must be worshiping Allah or something. 1.00

00:31:21.220 You're a suicide bomber if you go to Doha. 1.00

00:31:24.980 And that intimidates the crap out of a lot of people. 0.99

00:31:27.560 And they're like, it's not worth it.

00:31:28.360 Never mind.

00:31:28.800 Don't be quiet.

00:31:29.280 But over time, that doesn't work.

00:31:32.460 Or you can drop politics and statecraft and national interest.

00:31:37.800 You can just change the terms completely of the conversation.

00:31:40.660 You can stop talking about what's best for your country.

00:31:45.220 Because neocons are never going to win if those are the terms of the debate.

00:31:48.660 What's best for our country?

00:31:49.860 They're not even contestants in that.

00:31:52.020 They have no interest in what's best for our country, of course.

00:31:53.840 But you can change the conversation to theology.

00:32:00.000 And you can just say it point blank.

00:32:02.360 God demands that you support the government of Benjamin Netanyahu. 1.00

00:32:07.680 Now, who would be vulgar and dumb and reckless enough to say something like that? 0.99

00:32:13.980 Who would actually invoke God himself to justify a political alliance with a foreign country? 0.99

00:32:21.720 Man, you'd have to be someone who's not worried at all about the afterlife to say something like that.

00:32:28.140 Because that is a reckless thing to say.

00:32:30.180 And if you've already guessed Ted Cruz, you're absolutely right.

00:32:36.220 Watch.

00:32:36.660 I will tell you, there is a movement among Christians, particularly young Christians.

00:32:45.340 The public polling numbers of support for Israel among young Christians is plummeting.

00:32:50.400 And they're being spread lies.

00:32:53.980 They're being spread lies, isolationist lies that we should withdraw from the world because nobody wants to hurt us.

00:33:02.360 But they're also being spread theological lies.

00:33:07.320 They are being taught replacement theology.

00:33:10.980 Which is a lie that the promises God made to Israel and the people of Israel are somehow no longer good.

00:33:21.080 They are no longer valid.

00:33:22.600 That when God made a promise, he didn't mean the promise he made.

00:33:25.980 And instead, it is an argument that the Christian church has replaced Israel and the Jews.

00:33:33.900 And the Jews are no longer God's chosen people. 0.95

00:33:36.500 And all of the promises throughout the Bible are now a dead letter.

00:33:40.300 The church needs to engage and say the Bible is not silent on Israel.

00:33:45.380 The Bible is crystal clear on Israel.

00:33:47.960 And in the church, we will stand and fight.

00:33:51.720 Man, you know, it's one thing to get all worked up at the Waco Rotary Club about issues related to Texas.

00:34:03.580 But, you know, here you have a guy who's deep into the things that actually matter.

00:34:08.200 The questions of what happens after we die and what's true.

00:34:11.300 And he has no idea what he's talking about.

00:34:14.840 Like, literally no clue.

00:34:15.980 And I'm not guessing.

00:34:16.720 I'm not attacking the man's faith.

00:34:18.160 I'm just remembering very vividly because it was this summer when I asked that same guy, Ted Cruz,

00:34:25.120 okay, where specifically does the Bible tell Christians that they have to support Israel?

00:34:32.340 And he had no idea.

00:34:35.260 He meant to misquote a phrase in Genesis, but he couldn't even name the book.

00:34:41.380 And by the way, most people couldn't.

00:34:42.680 And it doesn't even mean that.

00:34:44.480 But whatever, if you're going to have a theology about it, shouldn't you know where it is in the Bible?

00:34:50.980 Shouldn't you be fluent in it?

00:34:52.360 No, because it's all fake.

00:34:53.660 It doesn't mean anything.

00:34:55.260 But he says it anyway.

00:34:56.980 And this topic actually matters.

00:35:00.120 Because it deals not simply with the fate of nations, but the fate of humans.

00:35:05.940 It's real.

00:35:06.780 So to talk like that, the Bible is crystal clear on Israel.

00:35:14.080 Okay.

00:35:15.720 What is Israel as defined by the Bible?

00:35:18.460 I asked him that question, too.

00:35:19.660 What does the word mean?

00:35:20.900 What does it refer to?

00:35:22.000 Yes, there are a lot of references to Israel and to God's love for his people, the Israelites, the Jews, for sure.

00:35:28.000 But in 2025, what exactly does that correspond to?

00:35:35.080 Israel.

00:35:35.680 Okay.

00:35:35.980 And he kept looking at me.

00:35:36.620 Israel.

00:35:37.040 It's Israel. 0.51

00:35:38.460 What does Huckabee say?

00:35:39.200 Israel.

00:35:40.320 I-S-R-U-L. 1.00

00:35:42.520 Okay.

00:35:43.140 Got it.

00:35:43.900 Can you define that for me?

00:35:45.920 Is it the modern, secular nation state of Israel?

00:35:51.700 The drag queen story hour in Tel Aviv state of Israel?

00:35:55.520 And what borders?

00:35:56.540 Does that include the West Bank, Judea, and Samaria?

00:35:58.480 Does that include Gaza?

00:35:59.660 Does that go all the way to Iraq?

00:36:01.120 I mean, like, what are we talking about here? 1.00

00:36:04.680 Shut up! 1.00

00:36:06.020 The Bible's crystal clear! 1.00

00:36:07.340 Well, of course it's not.

00:36:08.640 But one thing the New Testament is crystal clear about, because it's in every book, on every page,

00:36:14.800 is that the way to God is through Jesus.

00:36:18.540 And there aren't any caveats.

00:36:21.200 That I've seen.

00:36:22.560 I'm no theology student.

00:36:23.760 I'm no Ted Cruz.

00:36:25.360 But in every page, it's the same point.

00:36:29.060 The way to God is through Jesus.

00:36:31.900 And by the way, these are Jews speaking, as the early Christians were.

00:36:34.840 And they were speaking to Jews.

00:36:36.420 To their fellow Jews.

00:36:38.720 And they were saying, the way to God, repent of what you're doing now, and turn to Jesus.

00:36:43.340 That's what they were saying.

00:36:44.920 Maybe Ted Cruz has another analysis of it.

00:36:46.940 But there's an entire New Testament about this one question.

00:36:54.780 And by the way, if that's wrong, explain how.

00:36:59.260 But of course, they never will.

00:37:00.420 They never will explain how.

00:37:03.260 Because they don't care.

00:37:05.360 And by the way, there are evangelical Christians in the United States who have a fully developed theology on this question.

00:37:12.960 And I don't understand it, and to the extent I do, I don't agree with it.

00:37:16.380 But I don't hate them.

00:37:17.360 I know that I said I did once.

00:37:18.540 I was just frustrated, and I'm sorry.

00:37:19.980 And most of them are really nice people.

00:37:21.220 But I think any person reading a conventional interpretation of the New Testament would conclude the central, really the only, unchanging command throughout the entire thing, from Matthew to Revelation, is believe in Jesus.

00:37:39.940 Everybody.

00:37:40.840 Everybody.

00:37:41.440 There are no special deals described at all.

00:37:45.900 Well, everybody believes in Jesus, and that's how you get to God, and people who don't, aren't going to live forever.

00:37:54.580 And I don't see another way.

00:37:56.960 But people like Ted Cruz, of course, are not interested in debating theology, because he didn't even know what book it was in.

00:38:01.180 They're interested in shutting down any conversation on what's in America's interest, making it a theological conversation.

00:38:09.160 And why are they interested in doing that?

00:38:11.580 Because the last justification for supporting Israel above all other countries has evaporated. 0.75

00:38:19.120 And what is that?

00:38:20.040 It's the claim that Israel is a uniquely moral nation.

00:38:25.060 And that's why Christianity and also Old Testament Judaism is so often invoked.

00:38:30.760 People of the book, people of God, no one would contest that.

00:38:34.480 But what does that have to do with what Benjamin Netanyahu is doing in 2025?

00:38:38.620 Of course, it has nothing to do with it at all.

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00:41:46.060 The unique decency of Israel is the reason they are our only real ally.

00:41:54.620 And the problem is that what's happened in Gaza over the last two years has shown that

00:42:00.680 not only is that not true, it's very close to the opposite of the truth.

00:42:05.460 Now, a lot of us have spent a lot of time doing our best to ignore what's happening in

00:42:09.560 Gaza on the grounds that it's kind of not our fight.

00:42:12.780 Yes, there are weapons.

00:42:13.800 Yes, we're paying for all of it.

00:42:14.940 Yes, we're giving them cover at the United Nations.

00:42:17.240 Yes, they're really kind of doing this in our name.

00:42:19.200 BB is running around the world saying, I've got Trump in my pocket.

00:42:22.500 I can do whatever I want.

00:42:23.920 Trump will defend me.

00:42:24.660 He's told a lot of people that.

00:42:26.700 I control the United States Congress.

00:42:28.660 I control the White House.

00:42:29.820 I control the U.S.

00:42:30.540 He's said that on tape.

00:42:32.280 If you haven't seen it, look it up.

00:42:34.240 But a lot of us have thought, look, got enough problems.

00:42:36.420 Don't want to get into it.

00:42:37.420 But if you ever do look into what's happened in Gaza since October 7th, it's shocking.

00:42:45.560 Now, it's not the only atrocity on the planet.

00:42:48.580 The Israeli government is not the only bad government.

00:42:51.500 Tons of bad governments.

00:42:52.540 I covered the Liberian Civil War in 06.

00:42:54.520 There are a lot of bad governments, okay?

00:42:55.860 But among so-called civilized governments, no one has behaved like the Israeli government

00:43:02.060 has behaved in Gaza in a very long time, 80 years at least.

00:43:05.780 It's almost unbelievable.

00:43:08.380 Tens of thousands of children killed by a country with the most precise military technology

00:43:14.880 in the world, a country that somehow got explosive pagers into the pockets of Hezbollah 0.93

00:43:20.100 leaders in Lebanon.

00:43:20.980 These are people who are, again, world-renowned, famous for their skill and their precision.

00:43:29.580 Look at the bombing attack during the 12-day war on Tehran.

00:43:33.180 It was precise.

00:43:34.340 They didn't take out downtown Tehran.

00:43:36.440 They took out IRGC leaders.

00:43:37.980 They took out specific people.

00:43:39.900 They knew exactly where they were.

00:43:41.120 So the idea that they've killed tens of thousands of women and children, non-combatants, accidentally

00:43:51.420 is a lie.

00:43:52.660 No, they murdered them. 0.96

00:43:53.780 They murdered them.

00:43:54.700 It's just a fact.

00:43:56.100 You can call it whatever you want.

00:43:57.320 Genocide.

00:43:58.040 Everyone's all, it's genocide.

00:43:59.200 Okay, it doesn't matter what you call it.

00:44:00.160 That's murder.

00:44:01.100 You're killing people on purpose.

00:44:03.760 Oh, but that always happens in the world.

00:44:04.920 It certainly does.

00:44:06.340 Innocents die in war.

00:44:07.140 That is absolutely right.

00:44:07.980 But in no modern conflict in my lifetime have this many innocents died without any apology

00:44:18.540 at all.

00:44:20.520 So what sets, you hope, the United States government or has during most of my life, apart from other

00:44:25.680 governments, governments like the government of Israel, is when we kill people who didn't 0.75

00:44:29.800 do anything wrong, like children, we are penitent.

00:44:34.900 We apologize.

00:44:35.580 Sometimes we put the people who did it, as in My Lai, for example, in Vietnam, on trial

00:44:40.540 because we don't kill people who didn't do anything wrong, period.

00:44:45.560 And yet, for over two years, Israel has murdered tens of thousands of children on purpose and

00:44:58.660 then locked the doors of Gaza, shot dozens and dozens and dozens of journalists so no

00:45:05.060 one can film what's happening, and just level the place so they can move the people out and

00:45:10.060 take it.

00:45:10.480 But what's the justification for that?

00:45:16.040 What's the excuse?

00:45:17.660 Well, of course, there isn't one.

00:45:20.160 Again, Israel's not the only country that's behaved that way in history, far from it.

00:45:25.180 But no modern country has behaved that way in my lifetime.

00:45:28.380 And so the other day, we thought, for the first time, we would go see what this looks like.

00:45:33.640 And so there is, maybe it's one of the reasons they hate Qatar, the government of Qatar has

00:45:40.300 taken in about 2,000 refugees from Gaza.

00:45:43.800 They actually can't get anymore because Israel won't let them out. 0.98

00:45:46.700 But there was a period at the beginning of the bombing campaign in Gaza where some people

00:45:50.320 did get out.

00:45:50.900 And the government of Qatar said, okay, we'll take them, these Palestinians from Gaza, and 1.00

00:45:54.920 we will treat their injuries, especially the children.

00:45:56.600 We'll take the kids.

00:45:57.820 So they live in a compound in Doha, and we went over there just to see it in between other

00:46:03.600 things that we were doing.

00:46:04.640 People were talking to, people were interviewing, and just thought we should go see that.

00:46:08.180 So we didn't bring like a regular camera.

00:46:09.580 Our cameraman, Kyle, who's really talented, had his iPhone because we didn't want to stick

00:46:13.220 a camera in people's faces and like exploit the suffering of others to make a point.

00:46:16.500 We were not even planning on putting this on the air.

00:46:17.900 But it was so distressing, it was so shocking to see children, many of them orphaned, without

00:46:26.660 any family at all.

00:46:27.420 All their siblings have been killed.

00:46:29.920 No parents have been killed, or their parents are stuck in Gaza, and the Israelis won't let 1.00

00:46:33.140 them out.

00:46:33.580 Kids with no limbs, many with mangled faces, a child with a mangled face.

00:46:41.140 But there were four of us, okay?

00:46:44.260 Me and my business partner, who I've known my whole life, and two producers who we've

00:46:47.880 worked with for many, many years.

00:46:49.140 And these are guys who've really been around, like everywhere, and seen other wars, and

00:46:52.560 seen a lot of injuries, and, you know, kind of hard to rattle.

00:46:56.480 And by the time we get out of there, it was just four middle-aged men staring at the forest,

00:47:00.120 trying not to cry.

00:47:02.080 Here's part of what it looked like.

00:47:03.160 Most of them are hiçbirHEN. 1.00

00:47:05.780 those are Japanese, or they are lunch students.

00:47:07.640 I don't know who come because of a war.

00:47:07.840 For the people who come here with the war in Gaza, most of them need special needs, or

00:47:16.440 ?

00:47:17.080 How many people to come doin'.

00:47:19.920 who come as a youth war in Gaza.

00:47:23.720 Most of them needs a children's special needs.

00:47:28.840 How many have two parents here?

00:47:49.920 My friends, I was 16 years old, my friends were a person.

00:48:00.920 I'm from the first one.

00:48:12.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:48:13.920 When you come back and inside, and when inside.

00:48:37.340 There's an awful lot we left out of there.

00:48:39.980 You know, you don't, again, want to exploit the suffering of others.

00:48:42.580 I felt a little bit weird even filming anything.

00:48:45.180 But in the end, we decided it was important.

00:48:48.360 Because, like, what the hell? 0.92

00:48:50.000 What the hell? 0.67

00:48:51.380 All these kids with their limbs blown off? 0.97

00:48:53.160 This little girl who looked just like my goddaughter?

00:48:56.000 You know, with no fingers?

00:48:58.100 One hand and no fingers?

00:48:59.780 Like, is she in Hamas?

00:49:01.800 There are tens of thousands of those.

00:49:03.480 And again, look, there's so-called collateral damage in war, I guess.

00:49:07.360 Look at the pictures of Gaza.

00:49:08.380 It's not collateral damage.

00:49:09.400 They flattened the place so they could take it.

00:49:10.940 And now they're trying to, like, force the people into other countries, including ours, including the United States. 0.74

00:49:15.680 Not only do we have to pay for the war, but also take in all the survivors?

00:49:20.460 Why do we have anything to do with this?

00:49:21.980 But what's most shocking to me is that no one seems bothered by it.

00:49:30.700 None of the people who support Israel seem bothered by it at all.

00:49:33.420 And that's the real threat.

00:49:34.780 It's not just the crime.

00:49:36.320 Children whose faces are mangled by U.S. munitions, because why?

00:49:39.840 The real crime is the way that the supporters of this atrocity are justifying it.

00:49:50.040 Not simply to the world, but to themselves.

00:49:52.340 They're justifying it by saying out loud, well, they're all Hamas because they're all in Gaza. 0.94

00:49:59.440 And, yeah, they're kids, but if we let them grow up, they'd become Hamas, too. 0.92

00:50:05.680 What they're describing is the concept of blood guilt and the collective punishment and reward that naturally flows from that belief.

00:50:15.320 And the belief is God favors some but not others.

00:50:18.460 And that is the enemy of Western civilization.

00:50:22.000 That is the opposite of what Christians believe. 0.99

00:50:24.600 Christians believe that every person was created as an individual by God.

00:50:27.680 That's why anti-Semitism is wrong.

00:50:29.480 That's why Gaza is wrong. 1.00

00:50:31.400 Every person is created as an individual and must be judged as an individual.

00:50:36.140 We don't like what you do.

00:50:37.160 We can't blow the fingers off your daughter.

00:50:39.220 That's not allowed.

00:50:41.440 But they think it is allowed.

00:50:44.000 They're celebrating it.

00:50:45.500 And in the United States, we're allowing that attitude, which is the attitude behind affirmative action, DEI, all of this, 0.82

00:50:52.420 that people should be punished on the basis of how they were born or rewarded on the basis of how they were born.

00:50:59.300 We are celebrating those attitudes and never more clear than in the case of Gaza. 1.00

00:51:05.720 So there is a member of Congress, a new member of Congress, called Randy Fine from Florida, who is a passionate Zionist Fine.

00:51:15.400 But Randy Fine sent out a tweet that I want to put on the screen that I've kind of never gotten over.

00:51:22.000 Somebody tweeted Randy Fine a picture of a child, a baby in the rubble in Gaza, and said,

00:51:27.440 how can you live with yourself?

00:51:28.420 How do you sleep?

00:51:29.060 Quote, quite well, actually, thanks for the pick, exclamation point.

00:51:35.540 This is a sitting Republican member of Congress.

00:51:38.240 That's fine with me.

00:51:39.260 Thanks for the pick, exclamation point.

00:51:40.520 As you're looking at a dead child?

00:51:43.580 When that came out, I called the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson.

00:51:48.660 This is the Republican Party.

00:51:50.220 How can you allow this?

00:51:52.340 How can you allow a member of Congress, a Republican, you're his overseer,

00:51:59.060 you're the speaker, you're in charge of all the House Republicans.

00:52:01.600 This is the Republican Party?

00:52:03.460 Where we laugh at a picture of a dead baby because Randy Fine thinks that child is infected with unholy blood

00:52:09.960 or she's not human, she's Amalek or something?

00:52:13.540 What are we doing?

00:52:15.180 This is insane.

00:52:17.860 Support Israel, great.

00:52:18.920 If you're laughing at pictures of dead babies,

00:52:23.140 well, we're commanded to support Israel.

00:52:26.240 If this is what it means to support Israel, a lot of us are out. 0.85

00:52:30.720 If the United States is going to have a close relationship with Israel, 0.89

00:52:33.860 if they're going to be our close ally or important ally or even our friend,

00:52:37.820 tell me why that's good.

00:52:39.800 Stop yelling at me.

00:52:40.980 And whatever you do, do not celebrate the murder of children

00:52:45.200 because that reveals you as the enemy of everything that's important to me and my country.

00:52:51.380 And the main thing that's important is that we do not kill people who are innocent.

00:52:56.720 Not simply because it's sad, but because it's an offense against our entire civilization,

00:53:02.820 which is based on one idea.

00:53:06.160 We will be judged as individuals, not groups, not communities or tribes, as people.

00:53:13.540 Because God created every one of us.

00:53:15.700 That is Western civilization.

00:53:17.240 And Randy Fine doesn't believe it.

00:53:20.680 How can we allow this?

00:53:23.360 So maybe we're being unfair to Randy Fine. 0.92

00:53:25.280 So poor Piers Morgan, who's taken a lot of probably well-deserved crap recently,

00:53:30.600 but at least, you know, makes an effort to talk to people if he can. 0.83

00:53:33.240 We immediately call Randy Fine.

00:53:35.020 He called me the worst anti-Semite in American history.

00:53:37.980 Right.

00:53:39.080 I'm not the one who hates people based on how they were born.

00:53:41.660 You are.

00:53:42.600 But Piers Morgan somehow wrangled Randy Fine into an interview

00:53:46.660 and just asked him point blank, do you believe this?

00:53:49.420 And he does.

00:53:50.180 Watch. 0.99

00:53:51.060 Randy Fine, when you said, I don't give a shit about Garzans, 1.00

00:53:53.960 were you proud of that statement? 0.98

00:53:57.360 Well, I think the context there is Gaza attacked Israel on October 7th.

00:54:01.580 Of the thousands of people who streamed across the border

00:54:04.440 to kill every man, woman and child that they could, 1.00

00:54:09.260 many of them, thousands of them were not, quote unquote, 0.92

00:54:12.460 card carrying members of Hamas.

00:54:14.560 And so when you start a war and you are losing the war,

00:54:18.360 if you do not like what that is doing to you,

00:54:21.040 then you surrender in that war.

00:54:23.400 Gaza chose to be the enemy. 0.99

00:54:25.140 Gaza chose to attack Western civilization. 0.97

00:54:27.620 And no, I didn't care what happened.

00:54:29.640 I've not had actually any guess.

00:54:31.320 I have to be honest here.

00:54:32.700 I've not had any guess who has used the phrase Gazans rather than Hamas, 1.00

00:54:38.600 given it was specifically Hamas that perpetrated

00:54:41.580 the appalling terror attacks on October the 7th.

00:54:45.120 It is Hamas that has the governmental power still in Gaza.

00:54:49.880 It's not the Gazan people. 0.94

00:54:52.740 It's not the civilian population.

00:54:55.200 So why are you deliberately conflating Gazans in totality with Hamas?

00:55:00.040 To try to differentiate the two attempts to imply

00:55:03.220 that some small percentage of Gazans support or like Hamas.

00:55:07.760 That is not what the data suggests.

00:55:10.080 And we should not allow us to say these two are completely different.

00:55:16.760 It's hard even to know where to begin.

00:55:19.360 But we made the point.

00:55:21.300 You cannot practice group punishment, collective punishment.

00:55:26.660 We do not believe in blood guilt.

00:55:29.940 Randy Fine is the enemy.

00:55:33.220 The enemy of Western civilization.

00:55:35.480 That way of thinking.

00:55:36.520 And by the way, where does that line of thinking lead?

00:55:38.540 Well, it leads to the Nazis, among other places, among many other examples. 0.97

00:55:44.360 Of course, I'm mad at this Jew. 1.00

00:55:46.360 Therefore, I'm going to round up all Jews. 1.00

00:55:49.220 That's where that leads. 1.00

00:55:50.280 It leads to genocide.

00:55:51.400 And it's led to exactly that in Gaza.

00:55:53.920 And we have to just say that out loud.

00:55:55.760 Not only is it not anti-Semitic to say that out loud,

00:55:58.360 it is the prophylactic against, the defense against anti-Semitism.

00:56:03.400 When you say, no, no, no, not all people are responsible for the actions of people who share their name or language or physical location or religion or genetics.

00:56:14.080 It's like, no, every person is responsible for his own decisions and actions.

00:56:21.400 We do not murder the children of people we don't like.

00:56:26.100 And when we're caught murdering the children of people we don't like, we hang our head in shame and we weep and we apologize and we ask for forgiveness.

00:56:36.880 We do not go on Piers Morgan and brag about it.

00:56:40.900 We do not attack anybody who calls us out on it as a hater.

00:56:45.340 When we've been caught justifying murdering children, we do not behave that way.

00:56:50.020 And if we continue to behave that way, things will fall apart really, really fast.

00:56:53.880 But unfortunately, we are behaving this way.

00:56:55.940 And anyone who calls it out is treated as worse than the perpetrator of it.

00:57:00.960 Oh, that's genocide.

00:57:01.680 No, you're the criminal for saying that.

00:57:03.380 Really?

00:57:03.740 You want to live in a society that rewards the virtuous and punishes the criminals.

00:57:10.980 You do not want to live in the opposite.

00:57:13.400 And that's exactly where we're going really fast.

00:57:15.560 So it's important to just say it out loud.

00:57:19.180 Our next guest has had a lot of experience with this exact principle.

00:57:23.680 Francesca Albanese is the U.S. Special Rapporteur to the Palestinian Territories, which means she's an international overseer in those territories.

00:57:32.340 That would include, of course, the West Bank and Gaza.

00:57:36.020 And not long ago, she pointed out that what Israel is doing in Gaza is indefensible.

00:57:43.040 You could call it genocide.

00:57:43.940 You could call it mass murder.

00:57:45.200 You could call it the murder of innocents.

00:57:46.760 It doesn't even matter what the name is.

00:57:48.560 People who did nothing wrong are being killed by the Israeli government using American tax dollars.

00:57:53.720 That's a fact.

00:57:55.180 We met some of them.

00:57:56.120 And what happened to her next?

00:57:58.620 Well, that tells you everything about where we are in a relationship with our closest ally, Francesca Albanese, I hope, joins us now.

00:58:04.980 Francesca, thank you so much for coming on.

00:58:07.280 And I'm going to stand back and let you talk.

00:58:09.380 If you would just describe what you said about what's happening in Gaza and then tell us what happened to you in the United States after you said it.

00:58:17.700 Thank you, Taker, for having me.

00:58:24.060 I've been a special rapporteur for the United Nations, not the U.S., since 2022.

00:58:32.060 And in this role, I'm asked by the United Nations to document and report on the violations committed by Israel as the occupying power in the occupied Palestinian territory,

00:58:42.320 of which Gaza is a part, but it is also the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

00:58:47.600 And after one year and a half, after October 7, Israel started a brutal attack, which was the fifth in 17 years against the Gaza Strip.

00:59:00.420 And five months later, I suggested that what we are seeing could constitute genocide in a report that had the title Anatomy of a Genocide.

00:59:11.720 After another six months, I said, I do confirm that this is genocide and it's part of a colonial erasure of the Palestinian people.

00:59:20.680 Israel is committing genocide because it aims to erase Palestinian presence from the occupied Palestinian territory.

00:59:30.040 And it's a long trajectory that has led us to here.

00:59:33.560 Then I looked at the, in the other two reports, I looked at the complicity of the private sector, including many businesses, many are in Europe, others are in the so-called Global South, many are in the United States.

00:59:48.600 And the complicity that has sustained the economy of the occupation for decades, and there are people who have profited from this and Israel's impunity, including as this economy turned genocidal.

01:00:02.440 During the two years of genocide, while many Israelis were losing their income, their businesses, their livelihood, the Israeli stock exchange has kept rocketing, increasing its value of 213%.

01:00:19.300 And after this, I get sanctioned by the United States.

01:00:24.580 I get sanctioned for my work, for my denouncing what the fact as I'm doing for the United Nations for free, because I'm, yes, I'm a US, I am a UN expert, but I do that pro bono.

01:00:42.060 And, yes, instead of focusing on the crimes that I denounce, the United States treat me as a criminal.

01:00:54.320 Well, I mean, I'm a little confused.

01:00:56.780 I mean, I believe you, and I've read this, but I'm just confused by it.

01:01:01.940 So did you take up arms against anyone?

01:01:05.560 Did you help any armed terror group?

01:01:08.000 Like, what exactly was your crime?

01:01:10.280 It sounds like you were describing crimes.

01:01:15.480 Tucker, this is my only weapon.

01:01:18.340 It's a patent.

01:01:19.360 It's a patent.

01:01:20.420 This is what I do.

01:01:21.960 And, yeah, apparently it's very dangerous.

01:01:25.900 But this is what I've done.

01:01:27.060 I mean, again, look, I've had very interesting discussions with U.S. officials and congresspeople until this year.

01:01:38.880 But then what the United States couldn't process was me pointing the finger to the prophets.

01:01:46.140 So it's OK to accuse Israel of committing crimes. 0.95

01:01:49.920 No one cares, apparently, because this is what Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Palestinian human rights organizations and Israeli human rights organizations have accused Israel of.

01:01:59.920 But the moment I pointed to the fact that there are businesses who are profiting from it, yes, I was sanctioned.

01:02:08.900 Interesting.

01:02:09.720 OK, well, that that makes more sense.

01:02:11.280 So it wasn't like you were shut down or sanctioned because you criticized the state of Israel.

01:02:17.840 You were shut down because you criticized all the people profiting from mass murder.

01:02:22.820 Well, two months before sanctioning me, I mean, I got a sign of frustration in the U.S. administration for my work, which was apparently harassing U.S. companies, which is not the case.

01:02:44.540 Because, in fact, I mean, I've gone after Brazilian companies, South African companies, Colombian companies.

01:02:53.180 I mean, it's the entire world.

01:02:54.600 I keep on saying there are 62 states who are complicit, providing political, military, diplomatic support, economic and financial support to the state of Israel.

01:03:06.560 In the moment, it's committing, seriously, as you said, I mean, I was watching what you said and what you've shown before.

01:03:13.280 And it's, I mean, call it the way you want, but 70,000 people have been killed in Gaza, 150,000 have been injured, many with life lasting injuries.

01:03:26.240 I mean, I've seen, I visited the same premises that you have in Qatar already in February 2024.

01:03:31.540 And it's an abomination.

01:03:34.000 So, but yes, there was already a distress because of that.

01:03:38.840 And yeah, I think that there were things that upset the United States.

01:03:44.860 But as you said, I mean, the United States intervenes so powerfully to silence and to reprimand so draconially anyone who dares scrutinizing Israeli practices.

01:03:58.480 I think that's right.

01:03:59.740 It's almost like people can't let it into their minds.

01:04:02.580 I've had this experience with people I know.

01:04:04.020 I just talked to some Israelis I know just the other day who told me that within Israel, there's almost no discussion of what's happening in Gaza and that any criticism of it is immediately discounted as anti-Semitism.

01:04:16.380 And of course, that's happened to me in the United States. 0.91

01:04:17.800 Well, you're just anti-Semite. 0.86

01:04:18.660 And no matter how often you say, well, actually, I hate anti-Semitism, they don't believe you.

01:04:24.020 And this does seem like a kind of defense mechanism where like no criticism can be true.

01:04:31.420 It's all just hate.

01:04:33.360 We're not doing anything wrong and no one can talk about it.

01:04:36.640 Have you run into that attitude?

01:04:38.680 Yeah, I've run into this attitude.

01:04:44.640 I mean, what is shocking is that it doesn't only happen inside Israel.

01:04:50.200 In fact, inside Israel, there is criticism.

01:04:53.340 There are organizations like B'Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights who have denounced the genocide.

01:05:00.780 What has been shocking to me as a European, as a Western person, is the level of denialism, the vilification of the Palestinians as they go through what they go through.

01:05:13.680 So Palestinians are killed.

01:05:16.040 They are blamed, as we have heard, and they are smeared.

01:05:20.220 And there has been a denialism of what is happening that is, again, has no precedent in recent history.

01:05:31.100 Again, as a European, are you with me?

01:05:34.580 Yes, I'm right here.

01:05:35.840 As a European, I've been raised, educated to what the Holocaust has been. 0.65

01:05:44.540 And I know that the Holocaust, it's a misrepresentation arguing that the Holocaust happened in concentration camps only.

01:05:54.400 No, the Jewish people, millions of Jewish people were discriminated against for longer than we can name.

01:06:03.520 And in fact, they were killed in ghettos. 0.81

01:06:06.320 They were kicked out of civil life.

01:06:08.360 They died because they were dehumanized to an extreme.

01:06:13.880 And yes, there are records of the Jewish people ridiculed as they were killed and taken to concentration camps.

01:06:22.200 And it's this level of dehumanization that is the gene of any genocide.

01:06:28.060 The genocide happens when people refuse to see the other as human, as it's happening today to the Palestinians. 0.93

01:06:35.800 And I think what makes this so notable is that there are cabinet ministers in the current Israeli government who say that out loud all the time.

01:06:47.700 So, I mean, there are cabinet ministers right now wearing golden noose pins on their lapels calling for the execution of prisoners.

01:06:56.380 So we're not kind of putting words in their mouths.

01:07:00.080 And I've really been trying, as I've said, my best to ignore it.

01:07:03.020 I haven't wanted to engage on this question, but at a certain point, this is America.

01:07:08.320 This is my country's money.

01:07:09.640 These are my tax dollars being used.

01:07:12.260 How deep was the involvement of American companies in the mass killing in Gaza?

01:07:20.400 Yes, it is important.

01:07:21.660 Now, I want to say it's not just American companies, but Western companies, Americans and Europeans account for the majority.

01:07:34.360 But let me say, for those who might have not read my report, from economy of occupation to an economy of genocide,

01:07:44.620 it's not just businesses like arms manufacturers or heavy machinery producers.

01:07:51.480 It's banks, pension funds, the big tech.

01:07:55.980 There are, I exposed Amazon, Google, Microsoft, who have provided their services and access to data,

01:08:08.560 Palestinian data that has allowed Israel to set up systems to mass target and mass kill Palestinians.

01:08:17.920 I mean, there is an application called Where Is Daddy that allows the army to randomly track people

01:08:26.120 and reach them when they are with their families so as to inflict the most harm.

01:08:33.380 How brutal is it?

01:08:34.720 And I agree with you.

01:08:35.660 This is something that people must understand because this is the really, this is the end of humanity,

01:08:41.320 the end of the civilization that we have pretended to belong to until now.

01:08:47.040 Israel has the most sophisticated military army in the region.

01:08:55.740 And Israel is knowing exactly what it's doing and has been knowing this for two years.

01:09:02.100 And this is why there are also so many soldiers now breaking down.

01:09:07.460 The level of suicide is increasing among young Israelis who have served in the army.

01:09:14.940 And of course, so, because they are just older than teenagers and they are, they've been turned by indoctrination into the willful executioners of a genocide.

01:09:27.940 This is why I'm saying we must intervene.

01:09:30.780 People who love Israel must intervene to save what remains of Israel. 0.91

01:09:35.520 The biggest harm is being done by those outside of Israel who keep on defending this regime that not only has imposed a military dictatorship for decades on the Palestinians in the West Bank and in Jerusalem and until 2005 in Gaza,

01:09:55.720 but also on the Israelis who are part of the system, you cannot brutalize the other without losing your own humanity in the process. 0.68

01:10:07.880 That's exactly right.

01:10:09.180 So just I want you to clarify something I think I heard you say that there is some kind of app maybe made by an American company called Where's Daddy?

01:10:19.040 that allows the Israeli government to murder men in front of their children?

01:10:23.260 Did I, I mean, did I dream that or did you say that?

01:10:27.020 No, I said, basically Israel has developed, it's not enough, it's a system. 0.92

01:10:31.740 Israel has developed this system, automatized system to decide the targets through a computing system.

01:10:42.160 And the data has been provided by tech companies.

01:10:46.180 I mean, I've mentioned also Palantir, who makes no secret of its support to Israel.

01:10:54.380 And I quote in my report, one of the highest figures in Palantir, who's confronted in a public debate by someone who say,

01:11:03.860 you are killing my families, you are killing civilians in Gaza. 0.99

01:11:07.740 And he says, most probably terrorists. 0.67

01:11:11.420 So, you see, there is a sort of acknowledgement of involvement in something that has killed and injured hundreds of thousands of people.

01:11:25.660 And it's unfathomable for me.

01:11:29.560 I couldn't agree with you more.

01:11:30.820 What's so perfectly American is that you were the one who was punished for it. 0.94

01:11:36.740 We had a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan a few years ago under the last president.

01:11:41.040 And yet no sitting U.S. general was even reprimanded for it.

01:11:45.520 The only person who went to jail was a colonel called Stu Scheller who complained about it.

01:11:50.300 And this seems analogous to me.

01:11:51.960 You are being punished for pointing out what other people are doing that's criminal.

01:11:58.560 So, let me just ask, before I ask what happened to you exactly, it's my understanding that the day or the day before you were sanctioned,

01:12:06.540 Benjamin Netanyahu was at the White House in Washington.

01:12:09.260 Do you know if that's true?

01:12:12.280 Yes, that's true.

01:12:13.760 Do you think, do you have any reason to believe that Netanyahu asked U.S. officials to do this to you?

01:12:26.680 I don't know.

01:12:27.580 But the fact that the U.S. did it, it's absurd.

01:12:33.340 Because look, Tucker, I mean, I would like people to understand what the sanctions are.

01:12:39.360 Because you talk to me and I don't think you, you see a criminal here.

01:12:46.700 But this is what I am for the U.S. system.

01:12:49.440 I'm banned from travel to the U.S., which is something that impairs my functions because the United Nations headquarters is based in New York.

01:13:01.880 I was supposed to present my last report in New York and I delivered it from South Africa because I cannot travel.

01:13:08.840 But not just that, I am financially censored, which means that I cannot own assets, bank accounts I had in the U.S.

01:13:20.220 Then I will explain why in the U.S.

01:13:23.220 Everything, everything has been shut down.

01:13:27.240 My, I have an American daughter.

01:13:28.780 I have an American daughter who's paying the price of having her mom telling the truth about crimes committed in another place and just as serving the United Nations. 0.97

01:13:42.660 I am the first U.N. person to receive this in 80 years.

01:13:48.020 And it's absolutely abominable.

01:13:50.440 So, you know, so it's very, it's very personal because, because it touches my, my financial capacity to exist.

01:14:00.540 Because being sanctioned by the United States means that I cannot open a bank account anywhere.

01:14:07.420 I cannot have a credit card.

01:14:09.900 I cannot function.

01:14:11.220 I cannot receive payment.

01:14:13.280 I cannot make payments.

01:14:14.680 My health insurance has been suspended.

01:14:19.300 Even rooms, hotel rooms booked in my name by someone else get canceled because I'm in Europe, because I'm sanctioned by the United States.

01:14:30.120 And think of, there is a deeper meaning of it, which is, which is an extra layer of absurdity because I've also have deep ties to the United States.

01:14:41.160 I live in Washington, D.C.

01:14:43.280 I give birth to my first child, who's an American citizen, and she risks to incur into, to commit felony by give, offering me a present, by receiving like a breakfast from me.

01:14:58.780 Because the, the, the, the, the consequences of the sanctions are penalties up to $1 million and jailing up to 20 years.

01:15:13.400 And, and my, and the, the thing is that if you spoke to my daughter, you wouldn't even, you wouldn't even realize that she's the daughter of an Italian because she's American educated.

01:15:22.740 She goes to the American school, she's raised according to American values, more than Italian values, I can tell you.

01:15:30.920 And, and, and, and, you know, this is a betrayal for us from the United States.

01:15:37.300 Where is the freedom of thought?

01:15:38.880 Where is freedom of expression?

01:15:41.500 I'm, I, I'm, I don't really know how to respond to what you're telling me.

01:15:45.820 I just want to ask you one last time.

01:15:47.540 Is there anything you're leaving out?

01:15:49.060 Did you, did you send money to Hamas?

01:15:52.320 Did you shoot at the IDF?

01:15:54.220 Did you, are you secretly married to Nasrallah?

01:15:57.520 Or like what, I don't understand how you could have been treated like this without actively aiding a terror group.

01:16:08.500 Look, the only one who's aiding and abetting some, someone else committing crime is the United States.

01:16:16.220 Yeah.

01:16:16.560 Let me be very clear.

01:16:17.620 I'm sorry.

01:16:19.400 I'm sorry to agree with you on that.

01:16:20.780 So who did this to you exactly?

01:16:22.520 And how do you get it fixed?

01:16:26.840 Well, I know that the United Nations is working hard behind the scenes to have the sanctions removed.

01:16:32.620 There have been tons and tons of pledges to the United States from my special rapporteurs, independent experts of the United Nations, many states.

01:16:45.120 But here's the system.

01:16:46.300 The system is very weak at the moment because the, yeah, the United States is using its power, its leverage to bend the arm of the system.

01:16:59.040 And by doing that, it's, it will make everyone, including American citizens, less and less protected.

01:17:05.420 It doesn't seem to be acting on behalf of its own people.

01:17:09.560 I don't know what this has to do with what's happening in the United States.

01:17:12.900 It seems like we are completely casting aside the rule of law, fairness, decency on behalf of another country.

01:17:24.480 Maybe I'm missing something.

01:17:28.880 Look, you know, I, for a long time, for a long time, I've been thinking that Israel had the capacity to exert so much influence on the United States.

01:17:41.200 And I couldn't figure out how.

01:17:42.720 Well, I don't think it's that in the sense there is something deeper.

01:17:47.940 And it's the fact that we are fooled by the idea, by this idea of states representing us.

01:17:55.140 No, eventually states are in the hands of powers, military power, economic financial power and the power of the algorithm.

01:18:06.720 And this is why today, the imagining states as responding, serving the interests of people, it's a fallacy.

01:18:17.340 This is why I don't, I don't feel like blaming all the Italian citizens for what their government or our government does.

01:18:27.880 And in the same way, I don't blame all the American people.

01:18:31.400 Also, because there are so many American peoples who cannot meet ends. 0.99

01:18:37.360 And I've seen, I've seen this with my own eyes when I was in Washington, D.C.

01:18:41.860 I've used to, I used to volunteer in shelters in underprivileged neighborhoods.

01:18:48.680 And I see the contradictions of the country.

01:18:51.180 So I would expect the states to take care of this rather than investing taxpayers' money on ceding wars and ceding hatred all around.

01:19:05.060 But so I think that it's the United States who needs Israel for its, right now, its imperialistic purposes. 0.81

01:19:14.800 And again, it's not the United States as a country, it's the United States as serving specific interests, which is very sad.

01:19:24.420 So it sounds like the whole, the way we're thinking about this, I think you're making a very deep point.

01:19:31.100 Our framework is wrong.

01:19:32.360 We think it's a contest between nation states and, you know, some unduly influence others, but basically they're separate and distinct from each other.

01:19:39.300 We have these separate countries, but you're saying really that's an illusion and power, military power, economic power, the algorithm, as you said, is what's controlling these states.

01:19:53.360 It's, well, the fact that we have multinationals who are, who have wealth that, that it's, it's, it's bigger than, than states and with wealth goes control proves it.

01:20:05.800 But, you know, while I was working on my report on economy of occupation, from economy of occupation and economy of genocide, I did realize, I did realize that this is nothing new.

01:20:17.140 I mean, when you look at settler colonialism, 500 years of history have been marked by settler colonialism, European forces, powers moving from Latin America to North America, to Africa.

01:20:34.340 For what? For resources. And, and, and, but eventually what has driven this is private interests.

01:20:43.160 We think that we, the consolidation of states, matters have changed, but the reality is that we still live in systems that are driven by economic and financial interests, which might be okay.

01:20:58.080 I mean, I mean, I'm not advocating for the end of capitalism.

01:21:02.220 This is not my purpose as a special rapporteur.

01:21:04.680 It's just that this today, today, my observation in Palestine and Palestine becomes a mirror or a metaphor to understand the world is the profits drive us and drives politics more than the need and the urge to stop massacring and slaughtering children. 0.90

01:21:26.640 Oh, I, I, I get the sense from listening to you, you know what you're talking about.

01:21:32.440 Can you be more, and I should have asked you this earlier, more specific about why you call what's happening in Gaza genocide.

01:21:40.480 So my, it's a politically charged term, of course, it's the term we use to describe what the Germans did to the Jews and the Poles, you know, what, it's a term we associate with the Nazis.

01:21:48.340 So, of course, the Israelis hate it when you use that term, I get it, but it has a specific meaning, I think.

01:21:55.060 What is its meaning, and when did this, this bombing campaign become genocide?

01:22:02.480 Tucker, with all due respect, it's not a politically loaded term.

01:22:06.560 It's a crime.

01:22:07.760 It's a legal term.

01:22:08.720 I know that, but what does it mean?

01:22:11.120 Why is it different from just mass killing?

01:22:13.260 And, and excuse me, I mean, the Germans, the Germans, before committing and before leading the genocide of the Jewish people, Roman Sinti, disabled, pursuing this idea of a superior race, 0.54

01:22:27.540 had committed another genocide in Namibia, in modern day Namibia, the genocide of the Rero and the Nama.

01:22:33.920 And, in fact, genocide is something that has existed in history, the genocide of the Armenian people.

01:22:41.660 In my lifetime, there has been the genocide of the Tutsi in Rwanda, of the Bosnians in former Yugoslavia, and the Yazidi.

01:22:51.040 So, no, no, genocide is not loaded, is a crime, and should be treated as such.

01:22:56.260 So, this is something that is fundamental, because certain people tend to think that there is one and one only genocide.

01:23:01.380 And the thing is that it's a crime, and it consists in the intentional destruction, the intent to destroy a group as such, an ethnical, national, religious, or racial group.

01:23:19.520 And through acts of killing, the creation of conditions of life calculated to destroy the group as such, or members of the group as such,

01:23:32.260 the infliction of severe mentally or bodily harm, the prevention of birth, and the transfer of children.

01:23:40.840 In Canada, there has been a genocide of the Native Americans.

01:23:45.560 Canada has recognized it, even if there has not been a pronouncement of the International Court of Justice.

01:23:52.940 In Australia, the same thing.

01:23:55.240 We could say the same thing of the United States, and there is no acknowledgement of what has happened to the hundreds of Native Americans' tribes in the United States.

01:24:06.820 But the fact is that this is what constitutes genocide from a legal point of view.

01:24:12.580 Now, the thing is that there are some precursors of genocide, and Raphael Lemkin, the Jewish legal scholar who coined the term genocide,

01:24:23.520 had in mind the settler colonialism when he envisaged the crime,

01:24:28.540 because he knew exactly what the genocide of the Jews had been produced from.

01:24:34.800 That idea that there is one group that can dominate and erase the other.

01:24:41.420 So, in the context of Gaza, I've been alarmed by the language.

01:24:47.580 The language has been genocide-like.

01:24:51.320 They are all human animals.

01:24:55.280 We will cut water, electricity, food, and medicine.

01:25:02.200 And they've done it.

01:25:03.280 They've done it.

01:25:04.060 Netanyahu and others have been on record saying, evoking this biblical image of the Amalek. 0.88

01:25:12.320 Go and destroy the Amalek. 1.00

01:25:14.780 The mother, the suckling, the baby, the camel, and the donkey. 0.99

01:25:20.040 What is it?

01:25:21.760 I mean, evoking biblical language, using a moment of trauma, deep trauma in the Israeli society,

01:25:30.400 and in young men and women who were already harboring a level of dehumanization against the Palestinians.

01:25:40.640 Fine.

01:25:41.040 It has always been like that.

01:25:42.420 But eventually, there was already a dormant gene of hatred toward the Palestinians that has been activated.

01:25:52.100 And there has been destruction.

01:25:53.560 There has been mass killing, destruction of everything that was life in Gaza.

01:25:59.100 Why to destroy all the houses?

01:26:01.300 Why to destroy all the universities, all the hospitals, all the schools?

01:26:05.740 And killing the doctors, and killing the journalists who were reporting on the genocide.

01:26:12.680 There has been erasure of life.

01:26:15.100 And now, Tucker, I'm right now investigating something that no one has really wanted to see,

01:26:22.820 that I have denounced partially.

01:26:25.160 And so, the Commission on Inquiry on Israel-Palestine, which after two years has also concluded that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza,

01:26:33.820 Israeli organizations, again, like B'Tselem and others, have spotted the use of torture.

01:26:41.000 What has been done to Palestinians deprived of their liberty?

01:26:44.740 And mind you, I'm only talking of civilians, because we don't even know where the combatants,

01:26:50.300 those who have been captured as fighting in Gaza are.

01:26:54.400 But those who have been taken as civilians, medical personnel, journalists, teachers, and others,

01:27:03.160 they have been tortured on a systemic and widespread basis.

01:27:07.600 And they've been spending already a month interviewing people, interviewing lawyers, interviewing former detainees.

01:27:17.220 And there's still two months to go.

01:27:19.120 But it's abominable.

01:27:20.480 It's traumatic even to hear what has been done to these people, including children.

01:27:27.380 So, I mean, what else?

01:27:29.000 If not, again, this is a textbook case of genocide.

01:27:32.820 This is a textbook case of genocide, destroying a people as such, mentally, physically, culturally.

01:27:39.980 And they'll pay for it in the end.

01:27:42.340 And every, you know, every murder is seen.

01:27:46.500 And at some point, you know, people who commit murder are punished, for sure.

01:27:50.140 So, what happened to the ceasefire?

01:27:52.100 Is there a ceasefire?

01:27:54.240 No.

01:27:54.760 In place?

01:27:55.300 No.

01:27:55.440 There is no ceasefire.

01:27:56.960 No, no, there is no ceasefire.

01:27:58.460 There is just a bubble that has been, has had to be inflated at a certain point to distract the attention from the mass protests that were taking place everywhere.

01:28:16.500 Look, in Europe, it's not different than the United States, but we have many states in Europe.

01:28:21.940 And there has been a consistency of repression, protests from Germany, the UK, Italy, France have been either prohibited or harshly repressed.

01:28:35.220 Journalists have been criminalized.

01:28:37.200 Activists have been criminalized and arrested because of opposing a genocide.

01:28:43.940 So, eventually, in order to sedate this mounting distress in the population that doesn't want to see the slaughter of kids anymore, the word ceasefire has been imposed.

01:28:57.880 But nearly 400 people have been killed in Gaza since the ceasefire.

01:29:01.760 One-fourth, one-fourth of the aid that had been agreed upon has entered.

01:29:07.980 And as you and I are speaking, Tucker, there are nearly 2 million of survivors in Gaza resisting a winter storm in ravaged tents, tents ravaged by the elements.

01:29:24.320 And the fact that these people have been displaced 5, 10, 15 times from one rabble camp to another wasteland for two years. 0.95

01:29:35.360 Look, again, I've said already one year ago, Israel is writing one of the darkest pages of modern history. 1.00

01:29:44.300 It should have been stopped months ago, years ago, and not because I was saying that, you know, this is a critical point, Tucker.

01:29:52.520 In January 2024, the International Court of Justice recognized the plausibility that Israel was committing genocide, recognized the plausible risk of irreparable harm done to the Palestinians in Gaza under the Genocide Convention.

01:30:11.120 And you know what does it mean beyond the convoluted formulation of the law?

01:30:16.880 That there was an obligation to prevent genocide.

01:30:21.580 The obligation to prevent genocide kicked in at the moment the International Court of Justice recognized the risks and made certain recommendations, actually ordered certain measures to Israel.

01:30:35.140 And no one, no one, no one, not your state, not my state, no one has done anything to stop Israel other than cosmetic measures in the margins. 0.88

01:30:48.940 Because eventually what was to be done was to stop transferring weapons to Israel, to stop trading with Israel, and to stop other forms of aiding and assistance, which has not happened.

01:31:02.340 When just the opposite actually happened, all those states, including the United States, turned against their own citizens and stripped them of their civil liberties.

01:31:10.820 Lots of places in the United States made it illegal to boycott Israel.

01:31:13.780 You can't boycott Israel.

01:31:14.900 We celebrate boycotts, by the way.

01:31:16.660 Something called the Civil Rights Movement is a feature of, you know, every sixth grade history lesson.

01:31:21.180 And boycotts are good, except when they apply to Israel, in which case they're literally illegal.

01:31:24.340 The illegal UK, Germany, big states, put people in prison for complaining about Israel's genocide. 0.58

01:31:32.860 Tell me on what grounds they do that.

01:31:36.440 They, well, several grounds, but basically what is common also to the United States.

01:31:42.440 The main grounds are two.

01:31:44.280 People are accused of anti-Semitism and are accused of supporting terrorism and being all Hamas. 0.87

01:31:50.280 I mean, how can it be Hamas to ask to stop starving children?

01:31:57.100 How can it be anti-Semitic to ask a state not to carpet bomb a population trapped in 360 square kilometers?

01:32:07.560 Come on. 0.88

01:32:08.360 Look, like you, anti-Semitism is repulsive. 0.99

01:32:12.900 It's horrible.

01:32:14.040 I mean, as a European, the first thing that I feel when I hear the word anti-Semitism is repulsion.

01:32:25.640 Because this is what I've been raised to recognize that hating others on the ground of religion or race or other things is just wrong.

01:32:39.060 It is wrong.

01:32:39.580 I'm extremely stressed.

01:32:41.860 But I mean, I say it's always wrong.

01:32:44.140 Anti-Semitism is wrong. 0.94

01:32:46.820 It is no worse than hating the Palestinians for being Palestinian or hating the Italians for being Italian or black people for being black. 0.89

01:32:52.600 I mean, it's all the same thing, but somehow only one is a crime. 0.95

01:32:58.520 That's not Western civilization at all.

01:33:02.160 No, but it's not even that.

01:33:03.580 It's the lack of logic. 1.00

01:33:05.520 It's really the performance of stupidity behind it. 1.00

01:33:09.560 Because anti-Semitism is hatred against the Jews because they are Jews. 1.00

01:33:16.000 While I, frankly, I really, it's not, I don't have anything against Israel for the religion it professes.

01:33:25.560 It could be Buddhist, it could be Muslim, it could be secular.

01:33:30.020 But the point is not what Israel is, it's what Israel does. 0.90

01:33:35.020 And the other thing, I mean, people like me, people who stand for human rights, like the majority of European citizens who are taking the streets, they just can't sleep at night because of the images that pop up on their phones all the time.

01:33:54.160 There are really, there is a level of distress that I've never seen, including in my own country.

01:34:00.220 I mean, Italy is not the most active country when it comes to global tragedies.

01:34:07.320 I remember I was in the UK during the Iraq invasion and the British people have protested for years.

01:34:15.540 I mean, in Italy, much less.

01:34:18.120 But this thing, this genocide in Gaza, it's something that has really awakened a sense of a conscience that we almost had lost.

01:34:30.260 And I expect no less in the continent that has seen already a genocide happening on its own soil.

01:34:38.880 So, again, I'm horrified by the fact that while there is an awakening of conscience among ordinary citizens, their governments continue to deny the genocide while obliterating international law, the international law that has, it's our social contract at the international level.

01:35:01.740 So, it's what, I mean, has not benefited everyone, the global north has benefited more than the global south, I would say, but this is what has kept us protected for 80 years.

01:35:16.880 And it seems to me that today it's all going in the same direction, re-arming, re-arming, investing in wars, preparing for wars, while schools and other services and hospitals, which are in need for our taxes, get poorer and poorer.

01:35:37.720 Last question.

01:35:38.900 First of all, let me just say, in case I forget, I'm embarrassed by what the U.S. government did to you, unless there's something I don't know.

01:35:44.940 So, it's shocking behavior, and again, I'm ashamed of it, so I hope it's fixed soon.

01:35:51.320 I like the fact that you say, in case there is something, I don't know.

01:35:55.120 No, there is nothing.

01:35:56.060 Well, I mean, it's so unbelievable that they would, you know, treat you like a felon when all you did was describe what's happening.

01:36:04.140 I mean, I don't want to live in a country that does things like that.

01:36:07.420 Even if I disagreed with everything you said, I would be opposed to your being sanctioned and treated like a criminal.

01:36:13.480 Especially with no trial, the whole thing is outrageous, and sanctions themselves are wrong.

01:36:19.660 They never help.

01:36:21.120 I've never seen one time where they help.

01:36:22.720 So, okay, that's my view.

01:36:24.600 This will end at some point, and tens of thousands of people have been murdered, and so there will be consequences.

01:36:32.480 What should those consequences be?

01:36:33.980 I think that the most important thing right now is to end the genocide.

01:36:43.320 And look, there is an active genocide in Gaza, but what is happening to the rest of the territory, of the occupied Palestinian territory, should not be forgotten.

01:36:52.720 Because, again, as you and I speak, there are groups of fanatic settlers.

01:37:01.940 Many of them come from your country and my country, and they are roaming around the West Bank, terrorizing defenseless civilians, killing livestock, torching orchards, and preventing the harvest, 1.00

01:37:17.420 which is what Palestinians live out of, and destroying property, beating up people. 1.00

01:37:26.180 So, the West Bank is also up for conquest. 0.95

01:37:29.580 There is this crazy mentality that Israel really runs from the river to the sea, and the Palestinians should not exist there.

01:37:39.900 So, first of all, we need to stop this. 0.95

01:37:42.420 There are some lunatics that are saying horrible things in the Israeli government, and they must be stopped.

01:37:50.860 But then, of course, there should be justice. 0.68

01:37:53.140 Those who have ordered, architected, those who have made possible that the genocides take place, they need to be brought to justice.

01:38:01.320 There are already two arrest warrants, again, by the International Criminal Court, for Benjamin Netanyahu and Joab Galland, the former Minister of Defense.

01:38:13.100 And these should be, I mean, these arrest warrants should be followed up on, and these people should go to The Hague, and like them, others that deserve to be investigated and prosecuted.

01:38:25.300 Those who have double nationality and might have committed crimes, including soldiers and settlers, need to be held to account. 0.74

01:38:33.640 And then, I do hope that there will be a way to enforce international law to the fullest.

01:38:42.540 The International Court of Justice has already said that the occupation is unlawful.

01:38:47.020 So, Israel must withdraw the troops, dismantle the colonies, and stop exploiting Palestinian resources. 0.80

01:38:53.960 What else?

01:38:54.660 So, this is what is to be done.

01:38:56.280 And then, one day, my hope is that the apartheid gets dismantled, because only through full decolonization of that land, it doesn't matter the political solution, one state, two states, this is something that the people will have to decide.

01:39:10.000 But meanwhile, as an international community, we have the obligation to make sure that the apartheid is dismantled.

01:39:17.220 This is what I think should happen.

01:39:19.400 And you see the noise around it, peace plan, the 20-point thought bubble, and all the rest.

01:39:27.960 These are weapons to distract the attention from where it should be.

01:39:32.440 The only way to deliver peace to the region is to respect the basic rules that we have all agreed upon over 80 years of peace.

01:39:43.820 Amen.

01:39:45.040 Francesca Albanese, thank you so much.

01:39:46.820 I hope we're not violating sanctions by talking to you.

01:39:50.320 Just kidding.

01:39:51.540 I hope we are.

01:39:53.040 It's great to see you.

01:39:54.100 I appreciate that.

01:39:55.220 Thank you.

01:39:56.080 Thank you so much.

01:39:57.300 Thank you.

01:39:57.700 It was a pleasure, even if it's 1.29 a.m. for me.

01:40:04.340 So I hope I made full sense at this time of the night.

01:40:08.300 Unfortunately, you did.

01:40:09.660 Thanks a lot.

01:40:11.620 Okay.

01:40:12.320 All the best to you.

01:40:13.420 Bye, Tucker.

01:40:14.160 Good night.

01:40:15.140 And thank you very much.

01:40:16.680 We'll be back next Wednesday.

01:40:21.800 Christmas is back, and so is our merchandise shop at TCN.

01:40:25.520 And visit tuckercarlson.com to see what we have to offer, and it's awesome.

01:40:30.220 Everyone has a long list of people they need to shop for this Christmas.

01:40:32.840 Our new line can help you brighten the day with gifts they will actually love, not the kind they're going to throw away.

01:40:39.240 Well, thank you for it, but not mean it.

01:40:40.900 Actually good stuff that's great for everybody.

01:40:43.680 Ornaments, wrapping paper, Christmas sweaters.

01:40:46.240 For real.

01:40:47.340 The TCN shop has everything you need.

01:40:49.120 Dozens of new styles and designs perfect for the gift-giving and spreading the Christmas spirit.

01:40:53.200 That's tuckercarlson.com.

01:40:55.860 We hope you have the very best Christmas.

The Tucker Carlson Show - December 11, 2025

What If Everything You Were Told About America’s “Closest Ally” Is Wrong？

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