The Tucker Carlson Show - Whistleblower Reveals the Largest Mass Surveillance Operation in History and the Coming Slave State

00:00:00.000 No, no. Canada is up 2-0.

00:00:02.540 That is the most dangerous lead in soccer.

00:00:04.680 Relax, Mike.

00:00:05.600 See that, Dan? My left eye is twitching.

00:00:07.340 That's my warning eye.

00:00:08.540 It'll be 2-2 by stoppage time.

00:00:10.260 It's never wrong.

00:00:11.480 With early payout from Bet365,

00:00:13.340 I got paid the second they went up two goals.

00:00:15.580 So to me, it's now the safest lead.

00:00:17.620 Early payout from Bet365, huh?

00:00:19.840 Now my right eye is twitching, Dan.

00:00:23.140 Bet365.

00:00:23.820 Must be 19 or older. Ontario only.

00:00:25.420 Please play responsibly.

00:00:26.300 If you or someone you know has concerns about gambling,

00:00:27.860 visit ConnexOntario.ca.

00:00:29.320 T's and C's apply.

00:00:30.000 If you're over 40, you probably were assigned the George Orwell novel 1984, not written

00:00:35.620 in 1984, written in 1949, right after the Second World War, and it is famously a picture

00:00:41.060 of the dystopian future where the state controls everything.

00:00:46.160 And if you can think back, the novel, not quite as widely assigned now, your kids are

00:00:52.840 probably not reading it.

00:00:54.060 If you're under 40, you may not know exactly what it is, except it's like a synonym for

00:00:58.120 the state being overbearing big brother is watching you but it's worth remembering what

00:01:04.600 1984 describes because it is so so prescient it does not describe a lot of physical repression

00:01:11.140 by the state in the end there is torture and there are allusions to killing but the state

00:01:17.840 in 1984 doesn't spend a lot of time putting gun barrels in people's faces it doesn't need to

00:01:23.780 What it does instead is spy on them. There are cameras everywhere in 1984. Something called the telescreen, which, when the novel came out in 1949, seemed very space-age. It was a screen, and it listened while you spoke. It eavesdropped on you, and it bombarded you with pre-recorded propaganda messages.

00:01:47.220 And again, when this came out, it was impossible to imagine, say, the iPhone, which is listening to you at all times, or one of those seatback screens on Delta Airlines that's yelling at you without your permission about some credit card deal.

00:02:01.560 no one reading 1984 when it first came out had any reference point for this level of surveillance

00:02:10.640 there was famously a guy called Jeremy Bentham who was a liberal reformer in the 19th century

00:02:16.000 who had the greatest idea in the history of human progress called the panopticon and the idea was

00:02:20.800 we're going to build prisons with a round design so one officer can see everybody in the prison

00:02:28.560 all the cells will be open, and one guy can see everybody. And of course, he can't see everyone

00:02:34.740 at once, but inmates will never know when he's looking, so they'll know at all times that they

00:02:39.260 could be under surveillance, and that will compel them to obey. They'll be a lot more obedient

00:02:46.080 once they suspect we're watching. That was the whole idea of the panopticon, meaning

00:02:50.020 see anywhere. So apart from that kind of kooky, supposedly well-meaning, but actually totalitarian

00:02:58.140 theory of Jeremy Bentham's, nobody had really constructed a state capable of watching or

00:03:05.340 listening to everything that people did because the technology wasn't there. You just couldn't do it

00:03:09.140 until 1984. And it painted, once again, a pretty accurate prediction, as it turned out, of what

00:03:17.440 the future was going to look like. But what's interesting, there's a scene in there

00:03:21.760 where the protagonist in the novel, without being boring about it, but a guy called Winston Smith

00:03:26.440 meets another person and has a kind of low-grade love affair with this woman called Julia.

00:03:33.860 And the reason this is notable in the book is because there are very few love affairs in 1984

00:03:38.520 or in a world with this kind of surveillance because they're impossible.

00:03:42.780 One of the things you learn when you lose your privacy is that you can't have intimacy without it.

00:03:48.240 Intimacy is by definition exclusive.

00:03:51.980 It is a relationship between a very small number, usually two people.

00:03:56.440 You can't have an intimate DMV line or concert.

00:04:02.180 Your bedroom, you hope, is intimate.

00:04:04.820 And that's because not everyone's invited.

00:04:07.320 So without privacy, there is no intimacy.

00:04:10.660 People can't say what they really think.

00:04:12.420 People are afraid that everyone can hear what they're saying,

00:04:16.200 and so they don't say it, and after a while, they don't think it.

00:04:19.700 So the main takeaway from the novel is you don't need to beat people

00:04:24.720 or shoot them to get them to comply,

00:04:27.100 you only need to spy on them 1.00

00:04:28.960 and then tell them that you're spying on them

00:04:31.240 and they will know that they have to constrain

00:04:33.220 their own behavior.

00:04:34.800 They will be so terrified and alone,

00:04:36.900 so completely isolated,

00:04:38.420 that after a while they won't be capable

00:04:40.560 of having revolutionary thoughts.

00:04:42.680 They will accept whatever you tell them.

00:04:44.760 So stripping people of their privacy

00:04:46.120 is the key to enslaving them.

00:04:49.580 So in the novel, Winston Smith and Julia decide

00:04:51.900 we're going to try to have a normal conversation

00:04:54.180 and so they go to Paddington Station in London

00:04:55.900 and they take the train out to the countryside

00:04:58.220 and they stand in a pasture

00:05:01.380 and they have a conversation.

00:05:03.820 And that's the kind of extent of their intimacy,

00:05:05.660 but it's thrilling within the context

00:05:07.820 of this dystopian, privacy-free world.

00:05:12.180 They go out into the countryside

00:05:13.360 and there they can talk freely.

00:05:15.800 There they can be truly themselves.

00:05:17.460 There they can be honest and be intimate

00:05:19.100 with another human being,

00:05:20.100 break out of the prison of solitude

00:05:23.260 that the state has cast them in what's interesting if you think about it is that

00:05:28.400 even Orwell who died months after finishing the book his last book even Orwell couldn't have

00:05:36.820 imagined the world that we live in now in the United States in 2026 where even driving to the

00:05:44.040 countryside much less taking the train to the countryside is no escape from non-stop surveillance

00:05:51.620 because cameras are everywhere and cameras aren't simply recording you they're listening to you

00:05:59.960 and analyzing your biometrics your gait your face there is almost if you live in a metropolitan

00:06:08.420 area in the united states no place you can go from your bedroom to the grocery store to the

00:06:14.080 sidewalk in front of your house or apartment where you're not being surveilled at all times 24 hours

00:06:20.040 a day. And who knows what's happening to the images and sounds those cameras are capturing,

00:06:24.880 that data, who actually don't know. And there's really no legal safeguard in place to let us know

00:06:32.940 or to protect us from the misuse of that information, information about us. Remarkable.

00:06:41.700 How did this change so fast? And were you consulted on the change? Did your local

00:06:46.780 lawmaker ask you would you like to be spied on 24 hours a day no of course no one asked in fact

00:06:52.320 until very recently most americans were not even aware this was happening

00:06:55.260 there's been an explosion in surveillance in one specific area which is misleadingly named

00:07:02.220 automatic license plate readers so the idea is that a camera either affixed to a pole or bolt

00:07:09.760 to the side of a building or increasingly in a drone takes pictures of a license plate

00:07:15.640 and runs that information back to police headquarters presumably or corporate headquarters

00:07:21.300 and that information can be used to track down the fabled child traffickers everyone in charge

00:07:27.980 is so upset about child traffickers there's not a single member of congress who isn't very

00:07:33.060 exercised about the existence of child traffickers even the ones who opened up the southern border

00:07:37.720 and led in tens of thousands of child traffickers they're very upset about child traffickers and

00:07:42.080 because child trafficking is America's most pressing problem, everybody in the country,

00:07:47.700 all 350 million, need to be spied on at all times, but just your license plate.

00:07:52.140 Well, it's become clear in recent months that these license plate readers are doing a lot

00:07:56.360 more than reading license plates. In fact, there's no law that says they have to constrict their

00:08:00.720 spying to people's license plates. They can spy on people and cars, and they can do facial

00:08:05.440 recognition, and they can listen to what you say. And indeed, they are. So there are a lot of

00:08:10.800 companies that provide this service the biggest and certainly the most famous is called flock

00:08:16.240 flock safety the idea behind flock safety is police departments will use its product

00:08:24.620 its drones or its cameras affixed to poles in their towns to reduce crime

00:08:29.600 and from the perspective of the police department it's a pretty good deal and it's a good deal

00:08:36.060 because it's a whole lot cheaper than police officers.

00:08:40.240 Police officers are very expensive.

00:08:41.800 It costs over $100,000 a year on average

00:08:44.180 to employ a police officer.

00:08:46.000 Over the course of an entire police career,

00:08:49.040 through recruitment and training and sick days

00:08:52.360 and of course salary and then retirement,

00:08:54.420 it can cost $7 million to a city

00:08:57.260 for a single police officer.

00:08:59.840 But if you were to switch,

00:09:01.320 if you were to automate the process,

00:09:02.840 if you were to get a machine to do what people once did,

00:09:05.360 it cost you about $2,500 under the flock contract.

00:09:09.240 So you can certainly see the incentive.

00:09:11.940 Of course, lost in this is any privacy or even interaction with the human being

00:09:16.820 with whom you might relate in some way.

00:09:19.160 Personal interactions becoming far too expensive in the new digital economy.

00:09:24.900 But you can certainly see why city councils and mayors and police chiefs

00:09:30.580 would be incentivized, would have great incentive

00:09:32.580 to use flock cameras instead of people.

00:09:35.360 the problem is it's not clear what the rest of us are getting in return so the promise and it's

00:09:43.120 inherent in the name flock safety is that if you give up your privacy you're pre-existing you

00:09:48.760 thought right to kind of walk around without having your face analyzed and sent to headquarters

00:09:54.840 somewhere in this or another country if you were to give up all privacy you would in exchange get

00:10:00.540 what safety of course and that's the trade always the problem is it hasn't worked that way

00:10:07.320 because safety has never been a priority of this ruling class there was a time when big city mayors

00:10:17.800 and police chiefs and governors and even presidents said explicitly look we're going to crack down

00:10:23.020 but in return you're going to get the kind of country that is clean and orderly safe for your

00:10:29.080 daughter or grandmother to go to the store no one's getting raped in my country and we may need

00:10:33.000 to crack a few heads but you will get safety and for years a bipartisan republican and democrat

00:10:38.580 agreement remained in place that the first order the first job of government was to provide safety

00:10:46.280 for its citizens because without that what else do you have doesn't matter what your gdp is if

00:10:50.880 i don't know the downtowns of your biggest cities are open-air drug markets or hundreds of people

00:10:55.740 are getting shot to death it doesn't matter so you first have to provide safety but somewhere

00:11:02.240 around 30 years ago that part of the deal ended and big city mayors governors members of congress

00:11:10.680 sort of forgot that their number one duty is to provide safety to the population

00:11:15.420 and this kind of reached its most obvious and hilarious point five years ago when

00:11:20.980 those same people members of congress governors big city mayors even police chiefs were calling

00:11:26.260 for some version of defunding the police how about no police at all oh you think it's dangerous now

00:11:30.920 how about we just don't enforce any law how does that sound and they told us that they were not

00:11:35.680 embarrassed at all opposing funding the police was a prerequisite to being anti-racist so it was

00:11:41.360 really a kind of moral test anyone who's for the police hated black people obviously in case you

00:11:47.180 weren't here when that happened but this was a widely understood principle and every channel

00:11:52.460 including fox news told you about this anyone who's for the police particularly white police

00:11:57.360 is just a racist first cousin to a nazi what's interesting is that some of those exact same

00:12:04.580 people literally the same people are now telling you that you have to have cameras everywhere 0.88

00:12:10.840 in drones on light poles and buildings in fact now even in your car thanks to an act of congress

00:12:17.160 a law passed recently by the united states congress mandates cameras in all new passenger

00:12:23.080 vehicles that assess the face of the driver whether he's eating or yawning or who knows

00:12:31.060 what he's doing having a private conversation well there are no more private conversations

00:12:34.380 even within the confines of your own vehicle why because safety there are drunk drivers out there

00:12:40.820 of course it was only two years ago that joe biden explained well actually drunk driving is

00:12:46.080 not a big deal when illegal aliens do it somehow that standard has been revised drunk driving is

00:12:51.040 such a big deal that you can't have a private conversation in your own car anymore according

00:12:57.660 to the u.s congress and in fact that is a law and it's going to happen

00:13:00.400 so how exactly has this brand new but already incredibly widespread phenomenon flock cameras

00:13:13.620 license plate readers in virtually every city in the united states what has it done to crime

00:13:19.300 well it has not eliminated it despite what they may tell you so one of the cities that has the

00:13:26.420 most license plate readers in the united states is houston texas harris county texas which is a

00:13:32.280 huge place about 4.7 million people in harris county texas it's about the size of oman or

00:13:39.820 New Zealand. It's a lot of people. And it also has a famously high murder rate. Lots of different

00:13:44.800 kinds of crimes, but murder is the most straightforward because almost all murders

00:13:47.960 are accounted for because there's a body and a missing person sometimes.

00:13:52.380 So murders go reported. So we know pretty much precisely how many murders a city has.

00:13:58.760 Harris County, Texas has over 3,000 license plate readers in it, in the county. So you would think,

00:14:05.420 think about 3,700 actually so you would think with 3,700 license plate readers all over the

00:14:12.200 city when you look at a map of where they are in Harris County I mean there's nowhere you can go

00:14:15.940 where you're not being watched you would think it would be the safest place in the United States

00:14:19.680 but weirdly Harris County Texas had over 500 murders in 2025 the murder that aggregate number

00:14:29.300 of murders the total murders in Harris County Texas has risen dramatically over the past 10

00:14:33.620 years even as surveillance has become so intense there is literally no place to hide

00:14:39.540 now how does that work exactly how is it that we increase the surveillance past what 1984 describes

00:14:48.180 and we still have 500 murders in one u.s county hard to know how that happened but one conclusion

00:14:55.100 we can draw confidently is at the point of the license plate readers and the facial recognition

00:14:59.940 software, which are integrated, probably not to keep you safe. So if you're looking for a shortcut

00:15:07.360 to decode everything that you're hearing about almost anything, discount the part where they

00:15:13.800 say it's good for you, because that is not a relevant component to the formula. Should we do

00:15:20.040 this? Well, let's see. Does it save us money? Does it increase profit? Is it good for us?

00:15:25.380 Those are the three main criteria. What it does to you and your family, it's kind of not on the

00:15:29.560 list it's not a variable in that equation so it is clear in fact it's proven that if you turn a

00:15:38.800 city into a panopticon you still have well in the case of harris county texas hundreds of people

00:15:44.100 getting murdered but you have no more privacy which is to say you have no more intimacy which

00:15:49.480 is to say you have no more freedom because privacy is a prerequisite for freedom you cannot be free

00:15:56.880 unless you can have independent thoughts and privacy and independent thoughts are impossible

00:16:02.280 without privacy which is why when the u.s military wants to train its pilots on what life in a prison

00:16:10.620 camp must be like very often it puts them in a glass box naked in the center of the faux prison

00:16:16.980 camp that is a form of torture because you are stripped entirely of privacy there is nowhere to

00:16:22.640 hide everyone can see you at every moment and what does that do to people well it tends to drive

00:16:26.600 them insane. And yet the U.S. government, state, federal, and local has now constructed exactly

00:16:33.660 that, a glass box at the center of a prison camp, and we all reside in it. So what do you do about

00:16:41.460 that exactly? Do you go to your city council meeting and complain? That's been tried, and if

00:16:46.420 you're interested, go online. You can see video after video of concerned and very kind of forthright

00:16:52.260 and reasonable citizens asking their city council members, like, why are we doing this? Why am I

00:16:56.120 paying for this and what about my fourth amendment right that prevents search unreasonable search

00:17:01.780 and seizure without a warrant by the government and in every single case we could find they're

00:17:07.200 just blown off like some annoying crank oh shut up safety safety eliminate cigarette smoking while

00:17:15.380 live forever it's not like the life expectancy is going to go down if we do that oh but it did 0.79

00:17:20.080 so the point is license plate readers are safe and effective and if you don't believe that

00:17:27.060 you're obviously anti-science shut up science denier what are you for the drug cartels oh no

00:17:31.640 that would be the government they're in business with the drug cartels but normal people cannot

00:17:37.140 get a hearing on this question congress has made no effort to ban it or even regulate it

00:17:42.420 to protect say images of you or your conversation with your wife and or girlfriend or anyone else

00:17:49.880 from being sent anywhere. There's no law preventing other people from stealing your

00:17:57.520 conversations and your image in the most intimate moments of your life, like in your car,

00:18:02.220 and sending it to anybody or selling it to anybody. Now, some of these companies like

00:18:07.020 Flock claim they don't. Okay. Hope that's true. Is it? We don't know. And how would we know?

00:18:13.240 so it's not an endorsement of vigilante justice or vandalism of course which we are not for the

00:18:21.740 record endorsing but is it out of the realm of possibility that if you set up a system like the

00:18:28.220 one just described that some people will say i've got no option but to take these cameras down

00:18:33.480 myself well in fact that's exactly what a lot of people will conclude including this man watch

00:18:39.940 Do you have plans to continue to take down these flock?

00:18:43.220 Absolutely.

00:18:44.100 No, absolutely.

00:18:44.660 They are a clear and present threat to public safety.

00:18:47.980 44-year-old Javon Martinez is facing larceny property damage and tampering with evidence charges

00:18:55.080 after police say he destroyed three flock cameras, costing Rio Rancho thousands of dollars in damage.

00:19:02.960 You know, you call me, but I am here.

00:19:04.240 I'm right here.

00:19:04.780 I stood up.

00:19:05.340 I walked up there.

00:19:06.520 She wanted my name, but I have a right to not bear testimony against myself.

00:19:09.940 giving my name, consults as testimony.

00:19:12.120 And so I just chose to remain silent.

00:19:14.840 Oh, guy in an American flag shirt,

00:19:17.340 quoting the Constitution.

00:19:18.680 He must be a dangerous radical. 1.00

00:19:20.220 Better kill that guy. 1.00

00:19:21.700 He knows his rights. 1.00

00:19:22.660 That's not acceptable.

00:19:25.840 So there are a lot of people like that.

00:19:27.900 And if you go on the internet,

00:19:30.100 at least as of yesterday,

00:19:31.340 and this may change in the age of AI,

00:19:33.560 who knows?

00:19:34.920 But as of very recently,

00:19:36.320 there are dozens, maybe hundreds of similar videos

00:19:40.040 of people destroying license plate readers,

00:19:42.980 cutting down the poles, running into their cars,

00:19:45.360 spray painting them.

00:19:46.820 There are how-to videos on how to disable them

00:19:49.000 with high-powered lasers you can buy on amazon.com,

00:19:52.220 which apparently fried their circuits.

00:19:54.080 We're not endorsing that, of course.

00:19:56.580 But there are videos, in other words,

00:19:57.720 of people who don't feel they have

00:19:59.560 any other recourse whatsoever,

00:20:02.180 making one last-ditch attempt to preserve

00:20:04.980 the one thing that makes them free in this

00:20:06.980 or any other country, their birthright by the way

00:20:08.940 and it's called privacy. They don't

00:20:10.940 have it, they'd like it back. They think the Constitution

00:20:13.020 guarantees it to them. Their lawmakers

00:20:15.100 don't care. Their leaders don't care.

00:20:17.240 Their police departments don't care.

00:20:19.480 They don't think it's to make them

00:20:21.000 safer. They understand that it's to

00:20:22.940 strip them of their most basic

00:20:24.840 humanity, which it is.

00:20:27.320 And so they're doing the only thing they can

00:20:28.780 imagine doing.

00:20:30.720 The only thing the powerless really can

00:20:33.020 do

00:20:33.400 in a situation like this.

00:20:36.640 They're taking matters into their own hands

00:20:38.100 and some of them are being punished for it.

00:20:41.220 So you don't have to endorse vandalism,

00:20:43.940 of course, and we're not,

00:20:45.780 to understand the impulse behind it.

00:20:49.760 And if that guy is any measure of who's doing it,

00:20:52.660 and judging by the videos we saw,

00:20:54.180 he definitely is a measure of exactly who's doing it.

00:20:57.680 It's not the malcontents.

00:20:59.580 It's not drug-addicted kids

00:21:01.400 knocking down Flock cameras for fun.

00:21:05.140 It's sober, decent, patriotic Americans

00:21:08.200 who believe the promises of their country.

00:21:11.940 They're mad not because they're trying 0.83

00:21:14.240 to get something from Flock,

00:21:16.140 but because they want to be left alone by Flock.

00:21:20.280 Because Flock was not part of the country

00:21:22.900 they signed up for.

00:21:23.840 No one asked their permission to steal their images

00:21:26.300 and to spy on their conversations,

00:21:28.680 to read their license plates.

00:21:31.400 so any person with any capacity for reasoning and with any empathy for other human beings

00:21:42.320 may not endorse that behavior but can certainly understand it and enlightened people might work

00:21:50.200 to some kind of compromise maybe there are ways we can use technology to lower crime and make it

00:21:54.440 safer for your grandmother to go to the grocery store that would be good but maybe we can do that 1.00

00:21:59.560 without eliminating your humanity 0.99

00:22:01.040 by taking away your privacy.

00:22:03.540 But that's not, of course,

00:22:05.680 the posture of the billionaires

00:22:07.380 who run Flock Safety.

00:22:09.460 Safety.

00:22:11.920 Here is the founder of Flock Safety,

00:22:17.160 Garrett something.

00:22:18.300 Doesn't look like he's even 40.

00:22:20.540 This is Garrett, the billionaire Flock guy,

00:22:24.360 describing how he feels

00:22:27.080 about anyone who disagrees with his project.

00:22:29.040 watch corporate wars um looking at citizen projects where citizens concerned about the

00:22:36.300 rise of flock and flock cameras going up everywhere and increased surveillance everywhere

00:22:40.340 there's an organization called d flock who uh semi-well-known now i guess if you're interested

00:22:45.360 in this stuff um who take a fairly aggressive approach in terms of counting the number of

00:22:49.900 cameras and having a discord channel where they talk about potential you know activities to to

00:22:55.240 to move against FLOC and stop it expanding.

00:22:57.860 What do you think of that organization

00:22:59.120 and the way they go about their business?

00:23:00.760 Yeah.

00:23:01.280 So, I mean, I think there's really two groups of activists.

00:23:03.540 You've got organizations like the ACLU and the EFF

00:23:06.500 who take an above-a-board approach

00:23:08.540 to fight for their point of view.

00:23:10.060 And thankfully, we live in a beautifully democratic,

00:23:12.980 capitalistic country where we can fight in court.

00:23:16.000 And I have a lot of respect for those groups

00:23:18.020 because they have reasonable debates

00:23:19.900 and we follow the law.

00:23:21.900 And then, unfortunately, there's terroristic organizations

00:23:23.800 like D-Flock, whose primary motivation is chaos. They are closer to Antifa than they are anything

00:23:29.660 else. And that, I think, is unfortunate because we don't want chaos or I don't want chaos. I like

00:23:34.880 law and order. I like a society that has a bedrock of safety. It'd be interesting to know

00:23:39.540 where the douchebag factory is that turns out billionaires in t-shirts who run our most powerful

00:23:43.980 companies. Who is that guy? He's a billionaire. Where'd the money come from? Oh, from state and

00:23:49.880 local governments that's it's tax dollars mr t-shirt guy garrett garrett langley or something

00:23:56.360 he just described a group called defloc as a quote terroristic organization well what's defloc well

00:24:04.660 if that's the only knowledge you have of defloc you probably think it's as he said it's like

00:24:09.700 antifa guys in black mass spray painting things and beating people over the head with flagpoles

00:24:15.020 and shooting bear spray into the faces of cops. 0.88

00:24:17.880 Antifa, they want chaos. 0.87

00:24:19.980 Uh-huh.

00:24:21.240 Well, actually, unlike Antifa,

00:24:23.480 D-FLOC has a website,

00:24:24.580 so you can just kind of go there and assess for yourself.

00:24:26.300 What is D-FLOC?

00:24:28.300 Well, the answer was in the question, 1.00

00:24:29.780 and it was accurate. 0.61

00:24:30.680 D-FLOC is a group on the internet

00:24:33.520 that tells you where the FLOC cameras are.

00:24:36.880 That's what they do.

00:24:37.840 They have a map.

00:24:39.140 They're not for FLOC cameras or any license plate readers.

00:24:41.680 They think they're a violation of the Fourth Amendment.

00:24:43.260 they think they're an invasion of your privacy they think they're dehumanizing all true by the

00:24:48.180 way but what they really do is keep track of where the monitors are where are you being

00:24:53.640 surveilled and you can go on the map it's deflock.com and find out where they are in your

00:25:00.900 neighborhood and by the way it's overwhelmingly likely that you have them in your neighborhood

00:25:04.560 you're being watched you didn't even know it that's because the people are supposed to be

00:25:08.120 protecting you actually protecting you like the mayor of your town the chief of your police

00:25:12.180 department or your member of Congress, your governor, they should be telling you, but they

00:25:16.540 don't because they don't care at all about you or your privacy. And so DFLOC steps in and says,

00:25:22.920 maybe you'd like to know where these cameras are. And in some cases, because the information is out

00:25:28.700 there, the guy in the American flag shirt and the sombrero may disable the camera. Okay. But most

00:25:34.760 people would like to know. And so providing that information is terrorism, really? So think about

00:25:40.480 what the t-shirt douchebag guy is saying the billionaire that got rich on your tax dollars

00:25:46.380 is saying to you he's saying we get to know everything about you everything well you don't

00:25:51.220 even know we're here actually we have a drone overhead that at the distance of hundreds of

00:25:55.320 yards can see everything about you just like a military drone and that information is going well

00:26:01.180 we're not going to tell you where it's going i mean it's proprietary information that's going

00:26:04.800 to the client but what's he doing with it he could be selling it to insurance companies to

00:26:09.400 other governments to companies to data brokers who can sell to all the above that's not happening

00:26:15.500 i don't know mr t-shirt billionaire is it happening shut up but in other words he's

00:26:21.080 reserving the right to use tax dollars to know everything about you but if you want to know 1.00

00:26:27.800 anything about their company flock safety you're a terrorist oh you're a terrorist

00:26:33.420 it's a terroristic organization are they giving the acts of terror no they're actually disseminating

00:26:38.280 acknowledge that he's not contesting is factual. He's not saying it's wrong. It's accurate. That's

00:26:44.580 why he calls them terrorists. How dare you? You get to know everything. This is sort of the deal

00:26:50.760 the government has with us or federal law enforcement has with us. You lie to an FBI

00:26:54.640 agent, any federal agent, go right to jail. And if you live long enough, you'll know people who do

00:26:59.560 go to jail for doing that. So, of course, the FBI can't lie to you, right? Oh, yes, they can.

00:27:05.720 so in other words your employees that you pay who work for you an fbi agent works for you

00:27:12.460 hey get me a cup of coffee son that's the posture he works for you he's your employee

00:27:18.240 he's your housekeeper with a gun you're paying his salary but if you lie to him you go to jail

00:27:26.360 but he is absolutely allowed to lie to you and does all the time and faces no penalty because

00:27:32.240 there's no law against it well that's called asymmetrical that's called unjust and that's

00:27:38.100 been true for a long time but now you have a so-called private sector company a defender of

00:27:46.140 what he described the t-shirt kid billionaire described as capitalism capitalism oh it's really

00:27:50.640 it's capitalism huh taking money from the public without their consent spying on them and then if

00:27:57.660 they try to even know what's going on they're terrorists like antifa who are against order

00:28:02.320 yeah so that's not a sustainable system by the way and across the country these very obvious

00:28:09.800 and clearly identified on deflocked.com god bless them for doing that cameras are under assaults

00:28:15.960 hard to know how many flock on their website says not many well it seems like a lot

00:28:19.380 but pretty soon it won't matter because they're going to be in drones and unless you're an

00:28:26.540 extremely good shot with a tightly choked 12 gauge you're probably not going to knock one down and if

00:28:30.620 you do you're going right to jail just charging a firearm so they get to like hover over your

00:28:36.160 bedroom window if they want there's no law against it watch you and your wife and listen

00:28:40.420 but if you take any action at all or even complain too loudly or tell other people that it's happening

00:28:45.480 you're a terrorist okay now so while we can in other words while these surveillance devices 0.70

00:28:55.680 is this whole North Korean setup 0.92

00:28:57.240 that we're building here in the United States

00:28:59.180 is still visible to us before it's all airborne

00:29:02.640 and there's literally nothing you can do about it.

00:29:04.980 You might not even know it's there at that point.

00:29:08.260 There'll be no way to identify it.

00:29:09.420 There'll be no deflocked for drones

00:29:11.140 because they're mobile.

00:29:13.180 So during this moment when we can talk about it,

00:29:15.560 it seems like maybe it's worth talking about it.

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00:30:28.060 borrow better. So Ben Jordan has thought a lot about this, knows a lot about it,

00:30:32.760 knows a lot of the details about where the data from these cameras are going, which is worth

00:30:39.160 knowing. And he joins us now. Ben, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. How are you? I'm great. Thank you

00:30:45.140 for the work that you've done on this so why are you concerned about license plate readers flock

00:30:51.080 cameras what i mean we're told that look it's it's for your safety okay and unless you want to

00:30:57.140 be a terrorist you should probably shut up about it and there's nothing to be worried about at all

00:31:00.900 if you're not doing something wrong so i'm not doing anything wrong why should i be worried about

00:31:05.120 it yeah i mean there's a lot of reasons to be worried about it one one pushback i always get

00:31:11.200 is people saying, I have nothing to hide. And I feel like that is one of the most inaccurate

00:31:15.480 statements ever. When somebody says that to me, I always ask them to hand me their phone and unlock

00:31:19.740 it and let me go into the other room for a while. And just, you know, why? Do you got something

00:31:23.000 illegal on there? Let me look at it. But yeah, anybody who's ever been stalked, who's been

00:31:27.800 falsely accused of a crime, anybody who's ever been hacked, who's had their identity stolen,

00:31:32.120 they all have stuff to hide. And it's when those terrible things happen to you when you realize,

00:31:36.220 oh, I actually have a lot to hide, and this is really important.

00:31:39.980 As far as the first thing that I always, when I talk to like a police chief or something like that,

00:31:44.280 the first thing I always tell them is that this is a third-party tech startup.

00:31:48.340 They're not even a public company.

00:31:49.700 It's a private company that has venture capital investors,

00:31:53.020 but one of which is on the hook for Cambridge Analytica, by the way.

00:31:57.060 And they have one job, and that job is to make as much money as possible.

00:32:01.460 So they're going to tell you whatever it is that you need to hear

00:32:03.680 to put as many cameras in your community as possible. They're going to tell you that it

00:32:07.140 helps solve crime, that it'll increase your clearance rates. And the fact is, is that they

00:32:11.760 don't have any evidence of doing any of that. So the crime thing, it does seem like, we tried

00:32:18.760 to find the numbers. Crime stats are complicated, cross-referencing them with what we know about

00:32:24.740 these cameras and where they are. It didn't seem like they, well, they certainly had an

00:32:29.240 eliminated crime in like oakland or houston or places that have a real problem with crime

00:32:33.060 but it seems intuitive that like if you spy on everyone all the time there'll be less crime

00:32:37.420 like that doesn't seem like a crazy claim yeah well i mean criminology and sociology are incredibly

00:32:43.460 chaotic we actually as a society don't even know if increasing police reduces crime right like

00:32:49.520 that can go either way depending on what city yes um one of my favorite studies uh it was actually

00:32:57.140 dog ownership, like does having a security dog or having a lot of dogs in a neighborhood reduce

00:33:02.740 crime? And it actually did. And the reason was because people walk their dogs and they walk

00:33:07.740 around and they get to know their neighbors and they might even get to know their police more,

00:33:11.540 you know, if they have police on foot walking around the neighborhood and that makes everybody

00:33:15.420 safer. But the only thing that we truly know that lowers crime is community policing, is people

00:33:22.600 trusting their police officers and saying, hey, there's a gang member that all of a sudden bought

00:33:28.300 a gun. I think something's going to go down. I saw this. They'll have that conversation with

00:33:33.020 their police department and then they could actually reduce crime and they could prevent

00:33:37.920 victims from happening. So it's not a matter of getting somebody's license plate and then

00:33:41.220 arresting them down the road. You don't have a victim in the first place. And I feel in most of

00:33:47.420 the communities that I've visited, and I'm literally on the road right now visiting communities,

00:33:51.080 talking to city council members and stuff like that um in most of these communities the public

00:33:56.420 feels like the the license plate readers specifically from flock are betraying the

00:34:02.600 relationship that they have with police they're actually violating that social contract where

00:34:06.580 people expect privacy and they're not being given well i mean if surveillance created safety then

00:34:11.800 prisons would be very safe but they're very dangerous so yes i guess that's obvious right

00:34:17.020 Now that I think about it, I, one thing that I, the thing that a lot of people also don't think

00:34:22.020 about it, one of my favorite analogies, and this is used by the ACLU often is if you're driving

00:34:27.820 somewhere and a cop pulls behind you at a stoplight, you immediately change the way you

00:34:32.340 behave. You start, you know, you might be really into a song you're listening to. Now you're

00:34:37.180 distracted by the cop. You might be in a conversation for some reason, the flow of

00:34:40.760 that conversation changes. Even if you've done nothing wrong, we all just have that weird feeling

00:34:44.960 where this person who is able to, I don't know, handcuff us, pull us over, write us a ticket,

00:34:50.660 shoot us, whatever they want to do, when that person's behind us and surveilling us and looking

00:34:56.660 in and saying, oh, what's that guy up to? Is he up to no good? We start behaving differently. 0.95

00:35:01.900 And so when you put cameras in front of playgrounds, and there's plenty of flat cameras

00:35:05.620 in front of playgrounds, which is baffling to me, nobody's saying, hey, doesn't this affect

00:35:12.120 the way kids play like when i learned how to do a cartwheel the first time when i was a kid or when

00:35:16.920 i learned how to play the guitar i didn't have anybody watching me i had to be alone to do that

00:35:21.200 i needed my privacy to be able to find my own identity and find what i'm so good at which isn't

00:35:27.320 cartwheels by the way it's a really no i think that's such a wise point and a deep point um

00:35:32.460 so to what extent did communities have a say in this barely any most people to the up until

00:35:41.660 we started releasing big videos on this and that started going in the news. Most people didn't

00:35:46.100 even know what the cameras were. They didn't realize that they were storing their data every

00:35:51.640 single time they passed it for 30 days. So every single, so it's as if in my neighborhood, for

00:35:57.220 example, in Atlanta, it's as if I had a GPS unit on my car. I can't go to Chick-fil-A or a grocery

00:36:03.200 store or do anything without the police knowing about it, despite having not, I'm not suspected

00:36:08.880 of committing any crime. So, I mean, shouldn't there be like a period where the town, the city

00:36:16.800 of Atlanta, in your case, says to the public, you know, we're going to put North Korea style

00:36:22.140 surveillance posts all around the city. Like, are you for this? Are you against it? Like,

00:36:27.380 here's the trade-off that we're thinking about. What do you think? There was no Democratic input

00:36:30.840 that you're aware of. No, it's very, and most people I've been out of pocket. I've been paying

00:36:37.060 for polling to find out, you know, how many people are for this, how many people are against

00:36:40.840 this. And overwhelmingly, Americans are against it. And one thing that I find interesting is

00:36:46.080 you're seeing a lot of people on both sides of the political aisle be against it at the same time,

00:36:53.040 which it's like the only issue in America right now where everybody's kind of getting along and

00:36:57.540 being like, yeah, we don't want that. We hate it. And I think that's really important because

00:37:03.340 as you had just shown that video with the Garrett Langley interview, he's very quick to say the

00:37:11.620 word Antifa. After some of my videos came out, he emailed police chiefs around the country,

00:37:17.680 his client, from his personal email address, telling them that they were under attack by

00:37:22.040 lawless activists who want to defund the police. And I'm like, I've never wanted to defund the

00:37:27.300 police. That's never been a stance of mine. And just the other day, he did an interview

00:37:32.380 saying that people like Flock, they don't hate Flock. They hate the Trump administration.

00:37:39.380 And he literally said this in an interview. And he just seems to be trying so hard to act like

00:37:46.580 conservatives are aligned with him and that it's the left that's against him. But I'm trying to

00:37:51.360 make it very clear that one of the reasons I'm here right now, conservatives are not aligned

00:37:55.700 with him. Conservatives have classically always been anti-surveillance and pro-privacy.

00:38:00.100 Of course, starting at Orwell, who was famously a socialist and sometimes identified as a communist, but whose views are like beloved by every conservative I know.

00:38:10.180 So it's like I don't even know what those terms mean.

00:38:12.160 If you're for America, if you're for human dignity, if you're for privacy, you oppose this. 0.74

00:38:16.820 And that partisan crap is not applicable on questions like this.

00:38:20.160 These are human rights. 0.95

00:38:21.440 They're not political rights.

00:38:23.180 So I have to assume that kid, Garrett, whatever his name is, just put my.

00:38:28.780 i think it's actually three 12 year olds dressed on top of one another in an adult human costume

00:38:35.060 that's so good that's exactly that's so exactly it out garrett i know what's going on

00:38:40.580 that is so good okay exactly um and i hate to be mean to this one kid but it's like what's his i

00:38:48.300 mean he's getting rich from this from tax dollars by the way and and then lecturing the people who

00:38:53.740 are being abused by it there's something about that combination that infuriated me but he said

00:38:56.900 well, you know, there's the ACLU. Now, as someone who grew up admiring, sincerely admiring the ACLU,

00:39:02.800 I wish the ACLU were leading the fight on this, but you don't work for the ACLU, do you? Who do

00:39:06.940 you work for? No, but I just met with the ACLU yesterday with somebody from the ACLU. They're

00:39:13.980 a little bit less public on this, but they are supporting people who are filing suits. They are

00:39:20.800 involved in it, but much less publicly, which is part of the reason I was having a meeting with

00:39:25.580 them is because they're like, hey, you're kind of the face of this right now. Do you want to maybe

00:39:29.660 we'll give you some resources to help? And so, yeah, the ACLU, the EFF, the Electronic Frontiers

00:39:35.820 Foundation, they've also been, they actually, the person who made D-Flock, his name's Will,

00:39:42.600 Flock sent him a cease and desist. And they stepped in and said, we have a legal team,

00:39:47.680 we'll check this out. And, you know, told Flock to pound sand. So they've been very helpful in

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00:42:03.320 Slash Tucker.

00:42:04.760 So where where do the images and the sounds go?

00:42:08.180 Where does the data go?

00:42:09.240 um so typically what happens with your standard flock camera like the black ones that you see

00:42:15.860 they're called like falcons that's the model name of them um they will see a license plate they'll

00:42:20.620 take a picture and then they'll send it to uh the flock servers where the police can access it

00:42:26.100 whenever so if the police let's say you had a brown car with a bumper sticker and uh maybe a

00:42:32.500 broken window the ai actually picks that up and so not only your license plate the police can just

00:42:37.560 search brown cow, car, brown cow, brown car, broken window. And then they'll be able to find

00:42:42.820 every single time that you've passed a camera. But it gets worse than that because they have

00:42:46.800 something called a hot list where they could put your license plate on a hot list. And then every

00:42:50.440 single time that you pass a license plate, the police get a notification saying this person is

00:42:55.360 here, this person's here, this person's here. And they don't need a warrant to do this, which is

00:43:00.060 the most staggering part because it's just, this is no different than putting a GPS on somebody's

00:43:05.960 car functionally if you have a lot of flock cameras around and pinging somebody beyond one

00:43:10.720 cell phone tower what the supreme court had not that long ago actually decided that that

00:43:16.600 was unconstitutional so i just don't see how this is what what's the status of the drones

00:43:23.500 flock is saying publicly you know we're we have a drone fleet we're expanding our drone fleet

00:43:28.700 um it how big is that fleet do you know and that does seem to change the calculation

00:43:36.080 I had just done an interview next to, not on the property, but next to the property of their secret drone facility, which has a construction company name on it.

00:43:47.140 It doesn't have the Flock safety name.

00:43:49.140 And they called the police and had me detained for doing an interview across the street for it.

00:43:55.440 They, yeah, they have a drone facility.

00:43:58.160 Their idea is to have drones that are persistently in the air.

00:44:02.580 That's what some Flock employees have told me as of like a year ago.

00:44:08.120 They do have something called emergency responder drones that I don't really have a huge problem with.

00:44:13.620 Like if my house is on fire, I kind of want a drone to fly by really fast and let the fire department know how many trucks to send.

00:44:19.800 But what they're doing is a lot different than that.

00:44:22.060 They want drones that are persistently in the air.

00:44:25.520 And then, you know, when it runs out of batteries, one will go down, one will go back up, and it'll be able to surveil every single person under it.

00:44:31.220 So you're describing a war zone.

00:44:32.840 I mean, there are a couple hot war zones in the world, right, several, and there are permanently drones in the air.

00:44:40.560 So why would our government be using, we're not enemy combatants, we're Americans.

00:44:45.180 Why would they be treating us like we're the enemy?

00:44:50.540 I mean, so the true, I want to joke and say, because it makes us safer.

00:44:54.460 But I think that the truth is, is that all up all flock has spent hundreds of millions, billions of dollars on their product and marketing.

00:45:06.600 But their marketing has been towards police and they market.

00:45:10.380 They have studies that they wrote themselves that they point to saying, look how good this is.

00:45:15.020 Look how much safer this makes your community, how much better makes your job.

00:45:18.280 They have conventions where they invite the police officers and give them freebies.

00:45:22.260 And then there's also a really large revolving door effect where if you even go down LinkedIn, go down like flock employees, you'll find the head of communications happened to be a police officer in Dallas a year before.

00:45:39.380 And he happened to be the person in the police department who signed the surveillance contracts or recommended the surveillance contracts.

00:45:46.260 Same thing with city hall members, things like that.

00:45:48.060 And so you have something that really, I mean, I call it corruption.

00:45:51.560 I don't know if it's legally corruption, but a revolving door between government and private

00:45:57.280 industry, to me, sounds a lot like corruption. So I think that's why you have this massive

00:46:02.260 expansion. And that's why you have police saying, we need this, otherwise we can't do our job. And

00:46:06.360 city council members saying, okay, well, we're going to have a quick little meeting and then

00:46:09.880 vote this in before anybody hears about it. But in the end, everything that you're talking about,

00:46:15.960 the things that you're scared of, absolutely could happen. I think back to COVID,

00:46:19.860 you know, just five, six years ago. Imagine flock cameras, you leave the house to go pick up food

00:46:27.060 during quarantine or something and flock cameras are now, you know, you could be arrested for

00:46:31.140 violating quarantine or get a ticket or facial recognition cameras are the cameras that they

00:46:35.000 have in retail stores sending you a ticket because you didn't wear your mask properly because your

00:46:39.660 nose was sticking out the top. Like, I think that these affect people across the board from every

00:46:43.960 political aisle. And I think it's really important that people speak to their city council

00:46:49.680 members and their local politicians now and let them know how you feel and what i'm doing i know

00:46:54.200 you talked about people taking flat cameras down themselves what i'm doing is i'm trying to take

00:46:58.420 down uh the politicians who signed the contract yes good to enable this because i and that's

00:47:04.460 literally what i'm doing is i'm interviewing politicians on the local level to to find out

00:47:09.160 who's running against the person who threw their community under the bus by signing this contract

00:47:14.480 I mean, it's very easy to see how military technology, and this is military technology, these are weapons of war, could be used as tools of political repression.

00:47:24.400 Let's say the war in Iran continues.

00:47:26.040 This is not a partisan point.

00:47:26.900 It's just an obvious observation.

00:47:28.480 The war continues.

00:47:29.760 The strait remains closed.

00:47:31.100 We drain the SPR.

00:47:32.560 And we have an actual energy crisis at that point, like an actual one.

00:47:35.760 And the government says, well, we're instituting a work-from-home order.

00:47:39.880 We did that during COVID.

00:47:40.840 We're doing it now.

00:47:41.480 and a lot of people like me would be like buzz off i'm going where i want to go it's america

00:47:46.400 and then drones are deployed to make certain that the sheep are being herded correctly like

00:47:53.920 that's not a crazy scenario at all no no and i mean it's one of the most outrageous things that

00:48:02.580 that we've discovered a friend of mine jason huniar he lives in he lives in an atlanta suburb

00:48:07.480 Dunwoody, he has been just volunteering his time. He's not a professional investigator. He's not

00:48:12.920 a journalist. He's been volunteering his time pulling audit reports through FOIA requests of

00:48:17.860 what these things have been used for, where they're located, what they've been searching.

00:48:23.220 And there's a place there called Marcus Jewish Community Center. It's a private,

00:48:28.620 large community center that's kind of beloved by the community. And they have cameras on the

00:48:33.660 wall there that aren't flat cameras. They're like the standard cameras you would have in

00:48:36.520 any sort of business. And the community center said, OK, well, we're a little worried that there

00:48:41.320 might be some sort of anti-Semitic attack. So we want to share our footage with police in case they

00:48:46.000 need it, in case there's a shooting or something terrible happens. And by doing that, they shared

00:48:51.000 it with Flock. So what Jason had discovered is that over a thousand times Flock employees viewed

00:48:58.200 those cameras inside this private community center, including but not limited to the pool,

00:49:03.560 the daycare center, the children's gymnastics room, and nobody had been arrested. Nobody had

00:49:10.200 to answer any questions about it. In fact, they actually made it harder for Flock to collect an

00:49:17.060 audit or to collect a record of who was looking at the camera internally from the company.

00:49:21.480 Wait, just to be clear, it was Flock employees who were not licensed law enforcement officers.

00:49:26.420 All grown men. Yes, yes. All Flock employees over a thousand times, and they were all grown men,

00:49:32.020 And they were looking at these cameras at the daycare center, the children's gymnastics room, like, and their defense to this was that it was a product demo for another client. And I'm thinking to myself, if I had a business and I wanted a flock hammer, if I had a police department and somebody pulled up a laptop and said, look how good this works. And then it was a children's gymnastics room. I would call the police like, or hit them. I'm not sure what I would do, but that's, that's an outrageous explanation. That's, that's just delusional.

00:49:59.860 how many flock employees were fired after that none not one they uh they took down their linkedin

00:50:07.280 though and deleted their one of them was in a band and removed his band page on facebook

00:50:12.480 so yeah they pretty much got scrubbed from social media because you know i put i released a video

00:50:19.620 about it on instagram and it had made the news a little bit and so they immediately just scrubbed

00:50:23.920 their profiles what has congress done um so i had found some flock law enforcement um flock law

00:50:34.360 enforcement accounts on the dark web from a russian vendor and it didn't have multi-factor

00:50:38.840 authentication you know when you sign into netflix and then you have to like say yes i signed in from

00:50:43.140 netflix on my phone or type in a code they didn't have that and not all flock cameras have that and

00:50:47.700 or not all flock accounts have that and i found it for sale on a russian vendor and so i actually

00:50:52.320 started talking to some senators, Representative Krishnamurti and Senator Wyden from Oregon.

00:50:58.540 They wrote a letter to the FTC saying, hey, these need to be investigated immediately.

00:51:03.840 There's a massive national security risk here. And the FTC, I assume, printed it out and threw

00:51:08.640 it in the garbage. I'm not sure what they did, but they certainly didn't open an investigation.

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00:52:50.080 a participating shell locations conditions and limits apply actual value may be lower

00:52:55.080 visit shell.ca slash loyalty for full details are there any laws governing what flock or and

00:53:03.080 flock is not of course the only surveillance company out there there are a lot but are there

00:53:07.860 laws governing what they can do with the data with your data pictures of you and your family

00:53:12.160 in there's in illinois maybe in california there's some states that that are starting to try

00:53:21.960 and mimic data privacy laws that they have in like the eu or any other country really like

00:53:27.500 they have data privacy laws that are superior to ours right now and the problem is is that if it's

00:53:32.060 only in one state then they could just send it to a server in another state and then you know sell

00:53:37.020 the data elsewhere um fought claims to not sell your data but i've literally seen pdf price sheets

00:53:44.620 with an amount on how much they sell data for so make sense of that oh so you think they're lying

00:53:51.700 about not selling data it's almost as if they have a financial interest in lying to to the public to

00:53:58.500 get their company to ipo as quickly as possible oh cynical cynical i don't think t-shirt guy would

00:54:06.520 do that. And last, the most obvious question, why are you doing this? Why are you devoting so much

00:54:12.480 time to this? I'm going to be honest with you. I hate it. I'm so tired of Flock. I'm so tired of

00:54:18.240 it all. But it's been the last year. I mean, we've discovered massive security vulnerabilities and

00:54:23.240 reported on them. But the reason I'm doing it is because it's making a difference. You're seeing

00:54:27.540 communities across the country and some big cities canceling their Flock contract or refusing to

00:54:32.860 renew them. And I think that everybody needs to be concerned about this. And I feel like there's

00:54:39.920 very few people in America who want to be tracked everywhere they go. And now is the time when you

00:54:44.980 need to let your local city council, mayor, county, whatever it is, senators, governors,

00:54:52.780 you need to make a big stink about it and let them know that they're not going to be running

00:54:56.580 for office anymore if they continue to allow this to happen. You actually are making a difference.

00:55:01.320 That's the amazing thing.

00:55:02.620 You know, everyone wants to make a difference.

00:55:03.680 I think you're actually succeeding.

00:55:04.940 So thank you.

00:55:05.880 Thank you for taking the time.

00:55:06.840 It's wild to imagine that there's a possible thing.

00:55:09.700 It's so great.

00:55:10.820 It's so affirming.

00:55:11.840 Thank you very much for doing this.

00:55:13.500 Thank you.

00:55:14.300 Have a wonderful day.

00:55:15.220 Thank you.

00:55:16.580 So as you hear stories like that, you've got to wonder, like, who would participate in

00:55:19.100 this?

00:55:19.320 A lot of good people are cops, for sure.

00:55:21.620 Many more than they tell you.

00:55:23.460 On the other hand, police departments across the country are participating in the dehumanizing

00:55:28.940 of entire populations by stealing their privacy.

00:55:31.560 You can't go anywhere without being watched.

00:55:33.740 So you're not actually a citizen anymore.

00:55:36.600 You are, to some real extent, enslaved by the government.

00:55:40.220 So most people involved in this process,

00:55:43.280 gathering the information, enforcing the laws,

00:55:44.920 probably don't think about it too much. 0.98

00:55:46.340 But some of them aren't stupid and probably reflective, 0.95

00:55:48.640 and they probably have thought of it, 0.98

00:55:49.680 and yet they still work there.

00:55:50.520 And what's that?

00:55:51.660 So it's interesting that there have been people

00:55:54.360 who refuse to participate in them.

00:55:56.580 And one of them is a former police officer from Rhode Island,

00:55:59.940 a decorated police officer called Noel Pichardo,

00:56:02.400 who said, well, I'm actually not going to do this because it's wrong.

00:56:06.160 And you hear that so seldom, anywhere, for any reason,

00:56:10.340 people voluntarily giving up a good job because they think it's immoral,

00:56:13.960 that we thought it would be worth talking to him.

00:56:15.620 And he joins us now.

00:56:16.740 Noel, thanks very much for doing this.

00:56:19.520 Hey, Tucker. How are you doing? Thanks for having me.

00:56:21.180 So can you just tell us your story?

00:56:22.600 So you're a cop in Rhode Island, correct?

00:56:25.460 Oh, no, I was.

00:56:26.900 Yeah.

00:56:27.280 I resigned.

00:56:28.060 Yeah.

00:56:28.640 I'm sorry.

00:56:29.400 Figure of speech.

00:56:30.000 You were at one point a police officer in Rhode Island, and you no longer are.

00:56:35.780 So what happened and why?

00:56:38.200 So back in 2021, my department was the Pawtucket Police Department over here, and a lot of

00:56:43.400 other police departments across the state, they started doing these trial periods with

00:56:47.740 the flock.

00:56:48.260 So they were introducing to our police chiefs, our city councils, and said, hey, we have

00:56:52.020 this new technology.

00:56:53.440 It's going to help you solve crimes, crash criminals.

00:56:56.220 And I was trained on it along with my other coworkers.

00:56:59.400 And even the captain at the time who was tasked with training us, he was already very uncomfortable with it.

00:57:04.380 He said, look, I was tasked with training you guys on a user's, but I don't know.

00:57:07.440 This seems a little sketchy, but this is how it works.

00:57:10.660 This is how you get it on your computer.

00:57:12.500 This is how the system works.

00:57:13.600 This is how you find a vehicle on Hotlist.

00:57:16.640 And there you go.

00:57:17.360 So when we first were introduced to training, I was already uncomfortable with it.

00:57:20.820 And then when I finally had it in my vehicle and I saw how it worked and how it basically tracked vehicles in real time, I knew that it was a complete mistake.

00:57:28.380 I believed at the time and I still believe now that it's a Fourth Amendment violation, including the ACLU and the Institute for Justice who agree on that.

00:57:35.960 And thankfully, my city was too poor to afford it at the time, so they struck it down.

00:57:40.560 So when I got involved and I got in trouble was back in 2023, I'm driving in my district and I see them up in my community.

00:57:48.000 and i'm a patrolman and i wasn't notified that we were getting these cameras so i was like if if i'm

00:57:56.060 a police officer and it's my business to know when things like these are introduced in my department

00:58:01.080 the public doesn't know and that was the case the public wasn't the public wasn't notified

00:58:05.420 um the other cities in rhode island were not notified like ben was saying to most cities

00:58:10.060 across the country they were not notified it was just something that flock had a conversation with

00:58:14.540 with the city council and the police chief and they were put up without notifying the public

00:58:19.020 and so you know after a couple months of having a hard time looking my wife in the eye

00:58:25.340 i uh spoke with a local reporter i spoke with the valley breeze and i told him this is what's

00:58:30.620 going on this was put up without the public's knowledge it needs to be addressed he asked if 0.57

00:58:34.860 he could use my name um and because i'm i'm an idealist and a bit romantic and a bit stupid i

00:58:39.900 guess i told him to give him my name because i knew people hopefully would pay attention if

00:58:43.740 they knew a police officer felt this strongly about what was happening and so once he uh did

00:58:49.340 the article back in october 2023 i got in a lot of trouble um i spoke with a lot of my local

00:58:55.580 representatives to try to let them know that got me in trouble uh one of our representatives who's

00:58:59.740 a really good guy his name is joe solomon he invited to speak with the at the government

00:59:03.260 oversight committee and in april 2024 that got me in trouble so because i was doing all this i got

00:59:08.700 suspended a total of four times uh 72 days without pay so i lost about twenty thousand dollars worth

00:59:14.220 of pay because of all those suspensions i was supposed to get promoted to detective i got that

00:59:18.060 denied twice i was banned from taking the sergeant's exam um every time i was suspended they would do

00:59:24.140 things like have me hand in all my gear and all my equipment which is not a thing that we do anymore

00:59:28.700 that's kind of an old custom the only time they have a police officer who needs to spend a hand

00:59:32.220 in their gear is when they're arrested for a crime and i wasn't charged with any crime i was just

00:59:37.020 uh being um suspended for well they they will they will lie and says no we're actually suspending

00:59:43.240 you because you missed a municipal court day or we're suspending you because you know you didn't

00:59:47.740 take this report on a road rage incident we don't take road rage incident reports in Pawtucket that's

00:59:51.440 a lie so they would say that's why they suspended me but everyone in my department all my co-workers

00:59:55.800 knew that they were suspending me because of my opinion and because I was trying to address the

00:59:59.440 problem as best as I can. So eventually what happened was in July of 2025, so last year,

01:00:08.060 they wanted to terminate me. And one of them was literally based on a lie, one of the reasons why

01:00:14.060 they wanted to terminate me. So I wanted to challenge it in Leobor, which is like our version

01:00:18.340 of a trial when you go to Leobor and say, no, this is wrong. I'm fighting for my job. It was

01:00:22.620 going to cost me $30,000. My union was only going to pay 10. So I needed to come up with 20 grand

01:00:27.680 to defend myself. I couldn't afford that. So I had to resign. It wasn't my choice. I couldn't afford

01:00:32.960 it. And so since my resignation, you know, I decided, you know what? I gave it my best shot.

01:00:38.240 I tried to address this problem best I can. Maybe I'm not articulate. Maybe I'm not diplomatic

01:00:42.900 enough. I don't know. Maybe someone like Ben should be dealing with this instead of me.

01:00:47.640 So I decided to let it go. I said, you know, I'm going to let it go. I'm going to try to get

01:00:51.080 hired somewhere else. Maybe I can get a job working campus security somewhere. I couldn't

01:00:55.780 even get that because they wanted me to sign. And it was probably because they wanted me to sign an

01:00:59.340 NDA before I left, which I wasn't even a thing you can do with police departments. But they wanted

01:01:04.920 me to sign an NDA and I refused. And the deal was if you sign this NDA, that bars you from saying

01:01:13.280 anything about your experience here. But in return, we'll keep you on our health insurance. You'll

01:01:18.040 stay on the city health insurance until you find another job. And the chief will promise not to say

01:01:22.960 anything about you when you're looking for another job I thought about that it's not a bad deal but

01:01:27.940 I decided not to do that I didn't sign the NDA and that's probably and that's why I haven't been

01:01:32.560 able to find a job um in my field and definitely now that I'm doing this interview I won't be able

01:01:37.680 to find a job in the entire country um that's even but even no offense I mean I used to live

01:01:43.340 in Rhode Island so I could say this even by Rhode Island standards that is very corrupt I mean you

01:01:48.180 just described corruption that's ridiculous and your behavior was in my view heroic so thank you

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01:03:37.120 Sorry, investing, trading, that isn't a personality.

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01:04:07.120 download it now you're gonna love it but i appreciate i've got a lot of questions but

01:04:11.740 the main one is why was the Pawtucket which used to be a pretty tough town as i remember it

01:04:17.160 uh it's still a tough town yeah it's a tough town big project there and tough uh why were they so

01:04:23.660 wedded to these cameras why was it so important for them to have these cameras i had i actually

01:04:30.640 don't know i i asked to speak with my chief um because you know she you know she dehumanized me

01:04:37.680 so i was like you know maybe if she speaks because the only time i had a conversation with my chief

01:04:41.200 is when i got hired eight years ago i had never spoken to her since i got hired so she's putting

01:04:47.280 all these punishments on me and like you know what maybe maybe i could have gone about this in a

01:04:50.960 better way maybe um you know maybe if i had a conversation with her first before i spoke with

01:04:58.400 with the reporter before I spoke to the government oversight committee, maybe it would have made this,

01:05:02.520 you know, it would have made this back and forth a little more cordial. So I asked to speak with

01:05:07.480 her and she refused to speak with me. Or they told me that to not even bother. So I don't even know

01:05:12.740 if they asked or not. But so I don't know. I mean, I asked some of the city council members in

01:05:17.120 Pawtucket. I was like, look, don't you think it's a bit of a problem that the public hasn't been

01:05:22.200 notified about this? Like that doesn't concern you. And you know, their response was the same

01:05:27.300 response that jordan was saying was like well it's for their safety so what's what's the problem

01:05:31.620 so i i i don't know i i don't you know look and you know that we're dealing with a battle of

01:05:38.980 extremes in our country right now is like you mentioned in your monologue you know there's

01:05:41.740 the fun police thing going on three years ago and now there's this another extreme of mass

01:05:46.880 surveillance so which one is it and i and i think that's where we're in a battle of extremes you

01:05:51.340 know as they say hurt people hurt people you know you know we put body cams on our officers and

01:05:56.700 When I had a body cam, look, whatever you think about body cams,

01:05:59.980 it is a bit dehumanizing to have a video camera put on your chest.

01:06:02.660 I bet.

01:06:03.000 And say, go do your job.

01:06:04.120 It's a bit dehumanizing.

01:06:05.400 So it's not surprising to me that now when the police or the city

01:06:09.420 now have the opportunity to return the favor to the public,

01:06:12.300 that they're not going to think much about it.

01:06:14.500 Yeah.

01:06:14.860 Like you put body cams on us.

01:06:16.120 That's such a smart point.

01:06:17.580 Yeah. 0.99

01:06:17.960 You put body cams on us because we're a scumbag 0.98

01:06:20.500 because some guy did something in Minnesota. 0.99

01:06:22.760 Well, now it's your turn.

01:06:23.680 So I think there's a Freudian thing going on there.

01:06:26.420 where you do it to us now we do it to you so you know and to defend my co-work my old co-workers

01:06:33.180 you know it's a mix some of them think this is wrong this is immoral some of them think it's a

01:06:39.260 good idea and some of them just don't care they just want to finish their job and go home and get

01:06:43.020 their pension like you know without getting shot so it it's not a it's not a monolith you know

01:06:47.920 you know i want if there's one thing i can add to this that's useful other than trying to warn

01:06:52.900 people as best I can is not people to be too angry with their local police officers. Like

01:06:57.560 they're getting bombarded with things all the time. You know, some of them are in union fights

01:07:02.580 right now where some of their health insurances are being threatened. So I don't think it's crazy.

01:07:06.860 I don't think every police officer who feels the way I feel should be as idealistic as me.

01:07:13.020 Maybe they should. I don't know. I mean, if people want to be courageous, instead of expecting it

01:07:17.020 from others, they should just do it themselves. Yeah. Well, it's only a small percentage of

01:07:20.980 of people are willing to do that i've noticed like a tiny percentage so did it make pawtucket

01:07:27.020 as safe as little compton for example oh you've been a little compton you've been around tucker

01:07:32.740 oh yeah yeah well i mean it yeah i know around very well but no but what i'm saying is pawtucket

01:07:37.060 as you just said is like kind of famous is nice town but there's some definitely very rough parts

01:07:42.160 of it yeah are they now totally safe with these cameras oh no nothing changed um nothing changed

01:07:49.020 really yeah because no well yeah the thing is too um you know it's like ben you and ben were

01:07:57.540 talking about if you treat people like prisoners they act like that right you know if if people

01:08:02.800 is like you said a prisoner should be ideally safer because of all the surveillance but it's

01:08:07.480 not it's the most dangerous place in the world yes so and criminals too criminals no matter what

01:08:12.680 you do no matter what you input they're gonna they're gonna break the law you know they're

01:08:16.380 to try to find a way around it. Things like this, they only hurt the law-abiding citizen.

01:08:21.820 Criminals will find out a way to try to get around it. Instead of driving one car through

01:08:26.200 all these cameras, maybe we're going to do stop points and switch cars. Halfway sophisticated

01:08:30.500 criminals are going to figure out a way to try to get around this. But the dumb criminal and the 1.00

01:08:36.480 law-abiding citizens are not. They're going to be tracked everywhere that they go. And this is what 1.00

01:08:41.180 it is it's kind of a geofence for vehicles it tracks vehicles everywhere that they go and i've

01:08:46.740 heard some really juvenile arguments where they say well we're not tracking people we're just

01:08:49.800 tracking cars and i'm trying to figure out how that's any different sounds the same to me especially

01:08:54.320 in a place like you know rhode island or minnesota wherever everywhere except new york every state

01:08:58.880 doesn't really have a proper subway system so if you need to get around in every state in america

01:09:03.140 you need a motor vehicle you need a car in order to get around yes so if you're tracking people's 0.98

01:09:06.660 cars you're tracking people you know so that's a really stupid argument that was that was trying 0.94

01:09:11.480 to be argued that and like i said i don't know how that's any better we're not tracking people 0.94

01:09:15.320 we're tracking cars like okay well especially if they haven't done anything wrong so it's sweeping

01:09:19.580 up everybody into this dragnet it seems like by definition unconstitutional um i mean i don't

01:09:28.020 want to i'm not alleging any specific crime because i have no knowledge of a specific crime but

01:09:32.540 given everything you've said is it possible that members of the city council or

01:09:37.580 law enforcement officials are making money on this

01:09:41.220 yeah i don't know i mean the reaction to me made me very suspicious yeah because the smart yeah it

01:09:50.080 was very suspicious because i was the only officer in my state and at the country at the time that was

01:09:56.500 you know publicly giving my objections so the smart thing to do would just be ignoring me and

01:10:02.620 say you know he's just some crazy guy in the wilderness eating honey exactly exactly but

01:10:08.120 they beheaded john the baptist didn't work for him yeah so i i thought i you know because you

01:10:17.460 know the chief she's pretty smart i thought what she was going to do was to ignore me 0.98

01:10:20.940 yes i thought that's what she was going to do i thought she was going to punish me once

01:10:24.100 suspend me once you know and I take that hand I just move on with my life you know I tried you

01:10:28.640 know but when I was getting it was it was it was in a two-year period I was getting suspended

01:10:34.000 suspended and within two years it was in the two-year periods I was dealing with all that

01:10:37.540 so I did get suspicious of what's happening behind the scenes that I mean I may or may not know 0.90

01:10:42.720 why they're trying so hard to get rid of me you know I just thought maybe it was just a tribal

01:10:48.740 impulse that was kicking in you know but you know now that ben is sharing what ben is sharing is

01:10:55.360 the first time i'm hearing it that there are some backdoor ideas that look like that happened

01:10:58.500 maybe i don't know i mean it is rhode island so who knows what was the reaction from your wife

01:11:05.060 and your family people you know your neighbors were they on your side

01:11:08.560 so my wife was on my side good um my wife was on my side she supported me from the beginning she

01:11:16.380 was worried i mean this was a sad thing everyone when i was telling my family and all my friends

01:11:21.500 and my co-workers who um who really care about me and i and i still care about them very much

01:11:27.020 they all told me they all read the same script they pulled me aside and they said well if you

01:11:31.020 if you go this route and you talk about this they're gonna make they're gonna make sure that

01:11:35.820 you lose your job and they're probably gonna make sure that you don't work again they all told me

01:11:40.060 this my family told me this my co-workers told me this they all said the same script so it's really

01:11:44.620 sad that as Americans, we've accepted this idea that if you speak up, you're just going to get

01:11:48.380 hammered. Exactly. Like that was, that was really sad that everyone just accepted that. But so no

01:11:54.360 one really spoke against what I was doing. They were, their argument was, what you're doing is

01:12:01.840 noble, but you know, leave that for some other idiot to do. You know, you have two kids, you 1.00

01:12:07.080 have a wife, you have bills to pay, let somebody else put the neck on the line. Like that was the 0.70

01:12:11.400 advice that everyone was trying to give me and I thought about it and um like I said I know after

01:12:17.820 a couple months you know I had I had trouble sleeping you know my first son was born right

01:12:24.400 before I spoke up and then when you become a father I'm sure you understand this talk you're

01:12:28.860 like you're like oh man like I'm responsible for who this person becomes that's right so you know

01:12:34.140 one day I'm gonna have to have a conversation with my sons about integrity and when I have

01:12:37.600 that conversation with them I want to be able to look them in the eye when I have that conversation

01:12:41.180 So I knew if I ignored this problem and I pretended that it didn't exist, you know, I wouldn't be able to do that.

01:12:48.100 So I thought it was worth the risk.

01:12:49.840 I paid the price for it, but I'm doing all right.

01:12:53.440 Oh, you made me emotional saying that.

01:12:55.120 Well, for whatever it's worth, nothing really, but I just want to say it.

01:12:58.320 I hope you are richly rewarded for your courage and decency.

01:13:02.660 I think you did that for everybody in this country, and I'm really grateful you did it.

01:13:06.620 And last thing, you were very articulate.

01:13:09.000 So that was not your problem. 0.88

01:13:10.500 you know what it is it's my it's it's my rhode island accent it's disgusting so

01:13:16.080 if anybody who's never been to rhode island don't worry we don't all talk like there's 0.74

01:13:21.560 just blue collar just blue collar latinos black guys and italians we're the only ones who talk

01:13:26.200 like this it's the best i miss it noel thank you for taking the time it's great to talk to you

01:13:32.680 appreciate it thank you tucker thank you and thank you for for watching tonight we'll see you next

01:13:38.580 Wednesday.

The Tucker Carlson Show - July 16, 2026

Whistleblower Reveals the Largest Mass Surveillance Operation in History and the Coming Slave State

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