In this episode, I speak with the Press Secretary of Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky, Oleksander Tukhovetskii. He talks about his time working for Zelenskii and why he believes that he is one of the biggest obstacles to peace in Ukraine today.
00:04:35.280but i don't understand the point of this i mean i have many questions about how and why it started
00:04:41.320but what's beyond question is ukraine as a nation is being eliminated that's obvious to me biggest
00:04:46.800country in europe so it's a big deal what are since you mentioned numbers what how many people
00:04:51.640live in ukraine so when you started working for zelensky you work for the government of ukraine
00:04:56.7002019 how many ukrainians were there in ukraine so officially ukraine is the country of 40 42
00:05:02.5402 million people. But we had the last census, I think, in 2000 or 2001. And we did not manage to organize another one. So when I was working for the government, government officials, including Zelensky, were telling the numbers that they believed there are 34, 37 millions of Ukrainians in the country.
00:05:22.160now with around 10 or plus 10 plus million of ukrainians turning into refugees going to the
00:05:29.880west some stay in occupation you know eastern countries and even some in russia perhaps there0.98
00:05:36.200are around 25 million in the ukrainians in the country and the worst thing is that 11 million of
00:05:43.280them are retired people. And these retired people live for the pensions from 75 to 180 to 100 dollars0.71
00:05:53.120per month. And Ukraine is not that super cheap country where you can actually survive for this
00:05:59.120money. Just two weeks or three weeks ago, there was a terrible story. When one director movie
00:06:06.980director of Ukraine who was a retired person died at his home and his neighbor wrote that he died
00:06:13.480from hunger and cold. There were these severe temperatures in Ukraine and he didn't have anyone
00:06:18.800to help him. I just like wonder if ever we will know the statistics, how many people died from
00:06:25.220this cold and from having no opportunities to survive. So you're saying that the Ukraine right1.00
00:06:31.800now has maybe 15 million, maybe fewer working people, working people actually who are working
00:06:40.720in the entire country? Well, you don't count children. Children are not working, right? So
00:06:45.040I don't know how many children under 18 are there. But perhaps if we have around 10 million
00:06:50.460working people, that would be fine. Wow, that's amazing. Yes. How many have died in the war?
00:06:56.280Do you know? The numbers are very different, and it's very difficult to count. Right now,
00:07:01.540the official UN verified statistics is around 15,000 of civilians. The numbers of those who
00:07:09.780turned into military are not known. So it's very hard to know. But only in Mariupol, it is known
00:07:16.160that there are graves for around 20,000 of Ukrainians. So I guess there are at least hundreds
00:07:21.280of thousands of those who died, and we will just never know the numbers. I'm sorry, it's so painful
00:07:28.000to talk about oh it's well it's absolutely awful but i'm wondering why well my government which
00:07:34.360has funded a lot of this uh war why we can't get a straight answer from the u.s government
00:07:40.020from the ukrainian government the russian government i mean no one seems to have an
00:07:44.240interest in finding out the real number of dead yes well it's very difficult to do because how
00:07:48.760do you do this in occupation right there is no any any relation with that side that would allow
00:07:55.200to learn this information and the other side, which is Russian side, obviously is interested
00:07:59.920in hiding the numbers, right? I don't believe in verified numbers. And obviously, look, many people
00:08:07.260who are military now, they used to be just ordinary civilians, right? Engineers, IT guys,
00:08:13.520journalists working their everyday life, and then they turned into military. So of course,
00:08:18.460they are soldiers, but they're also people, right? And they are dying. And there are a lot of these
00:08:24.420things i've heard from the front lines when a person was killed and the body is brought and he
00:08:29.980has a bullet in his head and uh the government officials you know local officials just don't
00:08:35.860want to put him as a dad from the front line so they say he died from a heart attack for instance
00:08:41.180yeah it's war and i think it was happening in every war yes just like i think we will never
00:08:48.600know the true number but there are so many people who are suffering there and you know I told you0.99
00:08:55.720this terrible story about retired people and that they live for such absolutely outrageously new
00:09:03.680low low pensions just when I talk about Zelensky I'm an insider I talk to so many people who used
00:09:12.020to work for him or even those people who work for him. And to be clear, I believe that he stands
00:09:22.820behind many schemes of money laundering. And one of the stories is that I have a friend who was
00:09:29.080shortlisted for the position of the Ministry of Social Policies during the large-scale invasion.
00:09:35.660And he was called and he said that he was one of five candidates. And he would be interviewed by
00:09:41.920Zelensky and Mr. Yermak, then chief of staff of President Zelensky. And he was told that during
00:09:48.620the interview, he would need to come up with the schemes of money laundering, so that they are
00:09:53.340financed from the Ministry of Social Policy. And Ministry of Social Policy is the ministry that is
00:09:58.980responsible for pensions. So when we're talking about those poor pensioners, you know, and knowing
00:10:06.300the fact that Zelensky himself approves the schemes of money laundering? I mean, is he guilty?
00:10:13.180I want your audience to respond to that, okay? Do I understand the desperacy of mine?
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00:12:51.520I think most people watching assume that Ukraine is corrupt and has been for a long time and that the Zelensky regime is especially corrupt.0.53
00:16:08.480And I learned a lot of facts and talked to a lot of people about to a lot of people. And this information was nowhere, but it happened that he had several properties in Crimea.
00:16:20.240And when the war was happening in Donbass already, he was spending time in Crimea, having weed with, I mean, marijuana with his friends from 95th Quartal and making facilities there and enjoying time.
00:16:38.940And he didn't care that Russia annexed Crimea.
00:16:49.620I talked to a person who was working for him, a person who was helping him put the windows into the house, and a person was telling different details about how Zelensky was behaving.
00:17:01.940So everything that Zelensky is saying is really very different truth, you know, very different truth.
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00:28:51.140No, I can't. I hope I never have to see anything like that here.
00:28:55.580What was Zelensky's relationship like with Joe Biden?
00:28:58.640oh so there is a very good american journalist who wrote a book and he mentioned that relationships
00:29:07.900but i also met him and he told me in private conversation that biden was thinking that
00:29:13.520zelensky was emotionally manipulative when i was there uh he also described in the book
00:29:21.180that Zelensky thought that Biden was weak. When I was there, Zelensky had several interviews to
00:29:29.100push Biden for some agenda. And I remember that I met one American diplomat. He was pissed off
00:29:36.420with this interview. He was shouting at me so, so much. And it was a party. And I was not the
00:29:43.040organizer. Mr. Yermak was an organizer. And a diplomat knew he's just so pissed off that he
00:29:49.320couldn't stop shouting and he shouted that that interview was kind of either stupid or unprofessional0.99
00:29:56.660and it shouldn't be like that. When I was leaving and I resigned, there are boards who are spreading0.98
00:30:03.480the rumor that I was fired because I worked for Russia. This is not true. We departed on good
00:30:08.940terms. Zelensky thanked me. He wished me good luck. They wanted me to continue as an advisor
00:30:14.800to the office. So we departed in good terms. The thing is that Zelensky actually was destroying
00:30:26.100relations with multiple actors in the West, including with the United States. And one of
00:30:33.700the things was that since 2020 till 2021 for a year, there was a reform agenda and Zelensky
00:30:41.580it literally was destroying every reform and it was happening like one by one like and that was
00:30:47.920disastrous and what kind of reforms uh what kind of reforms so there was uh an agreement with the
00:30:56.180imf in 2020 ukraine was as often on the verge of uh default and we needed money and obviously imf
00:31:05.220doesn't provide you money for free so there was like 10 or 12 positions of the reforms that needed
00:31:09.880to be done. So Zelensky really did a miraculous job with two of the most difficult reforms. He
00:31:18.540pressed the parliament to vote for them, which actually means that he could go through this
00:31:26.140agenda, a difficult agenda, and push for the reforms. He just didn't want to. As soon as two
00:31:31.180reforms were pushed through, the IMF approved $5.5 billion. And I remember I was present at
00:31:38.400the conversation between Zelensky and Kristalina Georgieva. They spoke in Russian because Kristalina
00:31:43.440Georgieva is Bulgarian, and they had such trust and understanding, you know. But as soon as the
00:31:49.780money came through, and the first tranche was 2.1 billion more than they wanted to give at the
00:31:56.040beginning, in a few days, Zelensky violated the first reform. He fired, by political reasons,
00:32:03.560the head of the National Bank. And it was a big scandal. Kristalina Georgieva called back and she
00:32:09.880never spoke in Russian to Zelensky anymore because she was undermined. She promised to the board that
00:32:15.860he was a reliable man, that he agreed for reforms, that he proved that he could push reforms through.
00:32:21.240And then suddenly, as soon as he gets first money, he fires the head of the National Bank.
00:32:26.900And the head of the National Bank said that he was fired via political pressure. And, you know,
00:32:31.260There was a scandal. Zelensky explained to her this. He said, there will be another independent head of the National Bank, but he will just be our head of National Bank. He will be professional and independent, but he will be coming from us. He even doesn't understand what he's saying, right? It's hilarious. Do you understand me?
00:34:25.760I don't know if your audience is going to understand everything.
00:34:31.740But Nord Stream was a pipeline that Russia was building to bring its own gas to the European Union.
00:34:38.880And it was sanctioned by the United States.
00:34:42.880And so when Ukraine, when President Zelenskyy was actually violating all the reforms that he had agreed with the United States, at some point, Biden's administration was so pissed off that they decided to allow Russia to finish this Nord Stream pipeline.
00:50:54.440it. But there was one guy, a story that nobody paid attention to, who died when Zelensky was
00:51:02.840traveling to Mr. Biden in September 2023. The guy used to be a governor of my region,
00:51:11.300Kherson region, where I'm originally from. If you think about the governors, they are usually very
00:51:17.940rich, local, very successful, strong people who have their people everywhere, have established
00:51:24.420processes, have a lot of money. It's very strange that he died behind garages by making suicide of
00:51:32.660poisoning himself. And I talked to one very deep insider and top position in security service and
00:51:40.700the guy told me this is a very strange death because this guy was negotiating with Russians.
00:51:46.940He was getting his orders from Yermak, I know the middleman, and then he was passing some information to Russians when Russians were occupying Kherson, and then back.
00:51:59.980And then when Zelensky travels to Biden, this guy makes suicide behind garages, and security service explains that he had a depression.
00:54:51.380Okay. I'm very sorry, but I try to describe the desperacy and the dark humor that Ukrainians use. A driver is parking on the parking lot for a place for a disabled person. And another person is coming with a telephone asking, why did you park on the place for a disabled person?1.00
00:55:13.420And the driver responds, I'm going to vote for Zelensky for the second time.0.98
00:55:26.440So these are trends. This is not like one reel, two reels. These are trends, and they're going viral. And this is the way how people are trying to shout out, we are desperate.
00:55:38.440it please stop this war please stop this nonsense please stop this autocracy there is no reason why
00:55:47.840to fight this war it's senseless you see people lost all sense of this war like if this war is0.84
00:55:56.640for nata or against nata expansion then ukraine has no chances to be in nata if putin conducts
00:56:04.120this war against Zelensky, then Zelensky is the main beneficiary of this war. If this war is for
00:56:11.240returning territories, then we have been losing territories for three years. If this war is for
00:56:18.200democracy, then we have no democracy in the country now. People in the frontline regions,
00:56:24.700they tell terrible things. One person told me, I don't know what we are fighting for. What's the
00:56:30.780difference between Ukraine and Russia right now. There is autocracy there and autocracy here. There
00:56:35.900is no anything that would be democratic now. So what's the fight for? This is not what I'm saying.
00:56:42.880This is what people from different regions are saying. And I believe that Zelensky had two
00:56:49.060chances of finishing this war in 2022. Two chances. Now he says that 90% of Ukrainians
00:56:57.800will not forgive him giving up donbass where does he come from with these numbers like there are no
00:57:05.180such numbers realistically no such numbers and i was talking to people who represented ukraine
00:57:13.280at negotiations in istanbul in 2022 yes the famous negotiations where they came pretty close
00:57:18.720oh they were almost done yeah and i was explained in details that they agreed for everything
00:57:25.780and furthermore which is very important they said that Zelensky personally agreed to give away
00:57:32.940Donbass and I was shocked at that moment it was a shocking news and I said really did he and the
00:57:40.340guys told of course he is he is okay with that because he will stop the horror of war he he
00:57:47.980agreed for giving away the territory because because that would mean the war is over and now
00:57:55.600he is standing in front of millions of audiences telling i cannot give away donbass you see he he
00:58:02.500is inconsistent he is changing the positions all the time the second time when he could and
00:58:10.880the office of the president planned he would finish the war was the end of 2022 and as i read
00:58:18.100the new york times who actually confirmed my insights that the biden administration decided
00:58:26.600to go with his plan to continue that war that was mr blinken who was advising you know if ukraine
00:58:34.020wants to fight then ukraine needs to fight despite all the evidence that we could not win that of
00:58:40.160course not um you know there is this thing also everything that is said against Zelensky is being
00:58:49.060pro-russian and now um you know this mr johnson prime minister johnson thing boris johnson yes0.63
00:58:56.440boris johnson is a big friend of Zelensky he's an evil man uh so um remember bucha bucha is a
00:59:06.660small town in Kiev region, and it was occupied by Russia. And there are a lot of terrible things and
00:59:13.360terrible deaths happened there. And Zelensky came to Bucha after it was deoccupied on April 4, 2022.
00:59:21.260And I remember him standing in front of the journalist and he had this, you know, terrible
00:59:25.640face and terrible, terrible, you know, look. And he was it, it felt like he went through pain while
00:59:34.740seeing all those bodies there but he was asked if he was going to continue the negotiations
00:59:42.260with russia and he said yes yes i am going to continue that's fixed on a camera he was going
00:59:48.860to continue and then you know they had all the agreement by positions about donbass about
00:59:56.200language about many many things they agreed upon everything and then boris johnson came0.73
01:00:01.920And now it is sad that this is Putin's lies, but this story was told by Ukrainians.
01:03:36.200I tried to come up not only with the insights.
01:03:39.620I think the things that I told you are quite terrible.
01:03:41.960But this is who he is. But let's just check the facts online, okay? At the Munich conference, Zelensky insisted that ceasefire is the condition for peace, for negotiations, and for elections. He is keeping pushing for ceasefire, again, knowing that Russia is against ceasefire. It's like the NATO story, right?
01:04:04.440If you go online and check his speech for the UN General Assembly in September 2024, he was saying that no ceasefire is possible, that it's very irresponsible to ask Ukraine for a ceasefire, that a ceasefire will lead to a frozen conflict.
01:04:22.420And he was going against a ceasefire all the time.
01:04:25.300Then, second thing. In June 2024, there was a peace summit where Ukraine presented Zelensky's peace formula. There were 160 delegations coming from different countries. And I truly believe that those delegations wanted to discuss peace.
01:04:46.140there were discussions about energy security returning children and something else
01:04:52.100and sweden suggested that they invite russian delegation maybe even vladimir putin yeah and
01:05:01.240office of the president was very much against it and office of the president of ukraine even
01:05:06.660organized a media campaign saying that it is absolutely morally impossible to talk to russia
01:05:13.200to putin we need just to pressure no negotiations with russia you see at the same time when he was
01:05:20.800presenting the formula of peace ukraine was organizing the kursk region operation and how
01:05:27.560do actually you offer the world to have peace and at the same time are planning operation to invade
01:05:34.500Kursk region. You see, these are very inconsistent things. Then, after his just formula, where he
01:05:43.280suggested one things, he offered victory plan, where he suggested completely different things.
01:05:49.700Then, in November 2024, he said that he would agree for temporary occupation of some territories
01:05:56.720if another government-controlled territory of Ukraine will be included in NATO. Then, in several
01:06:03.140days he said that he was a misinterpreted i'm telling you so many examples when he has been
01:06:10.260changing the conditions preconditions to end this war because he doesn't want to end the war
01:06:15.420because he doesn't want to end this war i counted with my insights around seven attempts to finish
01:06:22.180this war where he used different mediators he used different countries we promised those mediators he
01:06:29.600promised those countries those leaders that he would start negotiations that he would agree for
01:06:34.560conditions and he always lied but it's i'm not giving him a pass i'm not making excuses for
01:06:42.620zelinski but ukraine has got you know 100 debt to gdp ratio limited industrial capacity like it
01:06:51.120can't fight a war without western aid period and so it's france uk united states that are paying
01:06:59.100for all this why would the western countries want to keep the war going obviously they do
01:07:06.340this is a very good question to be frank i think that uh the approach that donald trump team
01:07:13.640offered is a very constructive approach in any way ukraine wouldn't survive without aid but one
01:07:19.880thing one thing is to plan the investment right to boost businesses to provide jobs to play taxes
01:07:28.360to recover economy and to have returnings right and another one just to to provide the money for
01:07:36.260the war and i believe that the governments gave so much money and some of those governments they
01:07:45.740just cannot back up now they cannot say that we gave those money for a dictator because they're
01:07:52.640afraid about their ratings and their own situation right now some of the europeans were saying
01:07:58.680ukrainians members of parliament that ukraine was undermining them because of corruption
01:08:05.180ukrainians are begging please just open your eyes help us stop this war it's it's not about your
01:08:13.540ratings it's about people pain with blood of course but it sounds like that's not going to0.99
01:08:18.940be possible as long as Zelensky is there. The war won't end. I don't believe that he will finish0.99
01:08:23.740this war. No, it sounds like it. If there are seven attempts to finish the war and his only
01:08:31.360position has been the war needs to continue, he's clearly not the guy to end the war. So how do you
01:08:36.460get Zelensky out? That's a good question and I'm not the one to answer it. Well, there are no0.80
01:08:40.960elections so but we are in a legal trap here and uh he the last time when uh he was planning
01:08:47.380elections uh he actually didn't want to leave the martial law and wanted to have one round
01:08:52.700elections so that he can manufacture them and this is the article on a very reliable ukrainian
01:08:58.560media outlet um the journalist talked to insiders from from the office and from the parliament
01:09:03.820just another example look there was this munich security conference and
01:09:10.240um zelensky assaulted uh the prime minister of hungary mr orban
01:09:15.640that's so interesting just like i'm saying so many bad things i feel so bad about that
01:09:24.080but just like if you're a rational person think about this yes the leader of ukraine standing
01:09:30.260in front of all the leaders and keeps assaulting one of the European leaders in a week this
01:09:37.820European leader will need to vote for a 90 billion loan for Ukraine and obviously Orban just blocked
01:09:45.140everything and everybody is like pointing fingers to Orban how bad Orban is how bad Orban is perhaps
01:09:51.540he is I'm not justifying Orban here but if you are a leader of a country how on earth are you
01:09:58.480assaulting a person from whom you will need a support of 90 billion of a loan without which
01:10:04.840ukraine just cannot go further so that's a great question and i watch him do the same thing to
01:10:09.440donald trump absolutely but can i finish what is that yeah can i finish this moment the thing is
01:10:15.460that um the conflict that has escalated recently is about a pipeline oil pipeline uh hungary was
01:10:23.020getting russian oil through ukraine and it's damaged and zelensky made this again performance
01:10:29.440huge performance as if he is a brave hero who is fighting against russian oil russian gas all
01:10:35.180russian etc etc at the same time ukraine on technical level is repairing the pipeline
01:10:41.200the european commission is insisting that we do it as fast as possible and ukraine is sending the
01:10:47.900explanation to the european commission you know it will take some time but we are offering you
01:10:52.420another pipeline so that there is no energy crisis. So the work is there, right? And Zelensky
01:10:59.100is just performing some stuff in his head. And the other important moment in this, do you know
01:11:06.160that this was France, not Hungary, who bought the biggest number of Russian energy products last
01:11:12.860year, including Russian LNG that it's selling to Germany. So why doesn't Zelensky go against
01:11:20.060macron i don't understand that well it's a great question i i'm i'm aware of this um and donald
01:11:25.940trump um you know i was watching that thing that that oval office situation
01:11:32.500for me it was so painful it is so painful every time when i'm posting on my twitter
01:11:40.500videos of ruined ukrainian cities every time i have this quote from zelensky we've got
01:11:48.840beautiful cities come and see i'm like how you can say that these ruins are beautiful cities
01:11:58.040the thing is that many people who know zelensky they characterize the situation that this is
01:12:07.460what's happening behind the camera usually such historical behavior no control of emotions
01:12:16.060this manipulation, attempts to prove himself.
01:22:00.900And there are so many questions there that are not being solved at all.
01:22:06.080And I'm not sure he wants to solve them.0.71
01:22:08.740So one big question to all the Ukrainians and Westerners who have resources, who have the power, who are strong enough, is actually how to make it in the legal field, how to finish this.
01:22:24.660And that's the answer to your question, why are Ukrainians silent?
01:22:29.780Rich people are afraid of being sanctioned.
01:22:31.800By the way, it's also a legal instrument that Zelensky uses.
01:22:35.200He sanctions his own citizens, and it's absolutely anti-constitutional.
01:22:55.740And what happens when you're sanctioned?
01:22:58.980Your businesses can be closed, your accounts are frozen.
01:23:04.360The former president is sanctioned, so he says he cannot use his money anymore.
01:23:11.200So just to go back to something you said earlier that I should have followed up on.
01:23:15.460When you were working for Zelensky, he told Putin, I think you said it was 2019, that Ukraine would not join NATO.
01:23:24.480So then you fast forward a couple of years, three years, and he's telling the world that Ukraine does plan to join NATO, which you said is impossible.
01:23:34.480But what do you think changed his mind?
01:26:00.980I was talking to one guy who used to work under two or three presidents. And he said to me that
01:26:08.020he's telling everyone that these two guys, Zelensky and Irmak, they are just six-year-olds.
01:26:13.420He meant because they were six years in power. Now they are seven-year-olds. And I myself was
01:26:18.340thinking that they behave more as teenagers, but we never had argument that they behave as adults.
01:26:24.020You see? So I believe that Zelensky, if that journalist who wasn't inside the White House
01:26:31.660says that Zelensky thought Biden was weak, I believe Zelensky thought Biden is weak and he
01:26:37.540can pressure and get the NATO thing. Because Zelensky actually doesn't have much understanding
01:26:44.200of how things are working in his own government and globally.
01:26:49.220Why are there so many Americans always in Ukraine? Always Americans in Ukraine. American
01:26:53.740officials are always talking about Ukraine. No offense to Ukraine, but it's a very small country.
01:26:58.100It's a very big world. But the US government was very focused on Ukraine for a long time.
01:27:02.720there were always journalists in and out of their think tank people in their u.s military
01:27:07.400what was that well i think we are lucky that there are journalists there um but it's a small
01:27:14.700country you say but it's comparatively big well it's a large land mass for sure but so is kazakhstan
01:27:20.300oh yeah but in europe it's like the second biggest country in europe well if you don't
01:27:25.720count russia it's the biggest yes and so um i don't i've never understood you should ask americans
01:27:31.500why they're there. Well, I've never understood it. I mean, I think money laundering was part of it,
01:27:35.320for sure. I think Americans, I mean, the former president's son was on the board of a
01:27:40.520Ukrainian energy company. I never, did you know that?
01:27:44.280You know that I was a co-author of that very famous article about Hunter Biden. And after that,
01:27:50.780Biden's administration didn't give interview to the New York Times. And I think that was a very
01:27:55.400infant behavior from the communications people. I was just a freelancer in Ukraine. If for six
01:28:01.080years after that the biggest democratic president doesn't provide interview to the biggest
01:28:06.100democratic media because of some freelancer you know having evidence of of you know some
01:28:12.520connected topics that's really ridiculous i remember that piece with that was with ken
01:28:16.360vogel i think and yula mendel yep who's you um so for the for whatever it's worth for those who
01:28:23.920don't remember the piece can you just summarize it tell us what it was about what it said
01:28:27.240It was long ago, but yeah, Hunter Biden was invited to be on board of energy company that was owned by a big oligarch who is accused in money laundering and, you know, big guy, really, mafia guy.
01:28:44.700And there was a general prosecutor who opened 11 criminal proceedings against this company, and Hunter Biden figured somewhere that he was somewhere there.
01:29:00.680But I was talking to a general prosecutor, and he told me that he reopened the cases, but he could not prosecute Hunter Biden because Hunter Biden is an American.
01:29:10.100And as Ukraine, we just cannot do that.
01:29:12.720But that was the whole story about, you know, that Hunter Biden was on the board.
01:29:18.640And obviously, it was not liked by Biden administration very much.
01:29:25.680And I did just my job, you know, I talked to the general prosecutor, I, I went to two different people, I asked the questions, I read and translated the law, you know, I verified the information.
01:29:38.580I mean, Ken was doing a major job, I was helping him, and the New York Times stands for that piece.
01:29:46.720So why should I be, you know, feeling bad about that?
01:29:51.060Well, I don't think you should be at all.
01:33:53.300And they were interested in the relations with Russia.
01:33:56.640But unfortunately, there is this, I think, absolutely destructive contribution to very unhealthy nationalism that has become a shield for the beneficiary group in the country.
01:34:12.340Of course. That happens every time. I just know a lot of the policymakers in the United States who promoted this war. And I think that some of them wanted to destroy Ukraine. I think that. I'm sorry.
01:34:26.340It's very inhuman. The propaganda that we hear, it's very inhuman. It's very cynical. I mentioned to you this stuff about Russia is collapsing. This is like already a Twitter joke. Russia is collapsing for the fourth year in a row. Mark Reuter said a few weeks ago that Russia is in super bad shape. You need like three, four months of war more to win. Where does he come from that?
01:34:51.620tell this a ukrainian who is dying tell this to the mother who buried her son or a child
01:34:57.780tell this to a father who lost three children and wife under shelling it's impossible to explain to
01:35:05.980the people how politicians come up with the conditions to justify this absolutely unjustified
01:35:13.700war because it's not their country and they don't care it's evil i couldn't agree more
01:35:19.000many ukrainians believe this already many ukrainians and again they're correct i'm not
01:35:23.540i'm not justifying putin here okay it's nothing i agree it's just like repeating that he is a0.58
01:35:28.900monster it doesn't help the situation no i agree it's like telling us that iran's gonna get a
01:35:35.040nuclear weapon in three weeks you know telling us that for 25 years at a certain point i don't
01:35:39.980believe you um so you have asked to end with a message to the russians to vladimir putin russian
01:35:47.740president um in russian and of course i can't understand russian so uh but uh you've done us i
01:35:55.320think us the united states a great service by this interview and so i would be happy to turn it over
01:36:00.300to you to speak directly in russian uh to the russian president thank you of course it's