This is Gavin Newsom - And, This Is A Country In Crisis With Keith Edwards

00:00:00.000 We just want people who are going to fight Greg Bovino.

00:00:04.000 I'm offended by him because he's trash.

00:00:06.320 Do people cry on this podcast, but they do now.

00:00:10.440 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:00:12.880 And this is Keith Edwards.

00:00:17.160 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:20.040 Guaranteed human.

00:00:21.780 This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom Podcast.

00:00:25.400 Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken.

00:00:29.420 But what if the real work isn't physical at all?

00:00:32.300 I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name.

00:00:39.400 Part of the way through the valley of despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward.

00:00:46.180 Our two-part conversation is available now.

00:00:48.420 Listen to the Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

00:00:54.560 A man with Down syndrome tries the impossible, the grand slam in turkey hunting.

00:00:59.880 Four 53 hits, we're legal shooting right.

00:01:03.200 And he gives us this one last test.

00:01:05.760 And he pitches off.

00:01:08.380 And when he pitches off, he flies right into the gun barrel.

00:01:11.600 I said to the cameraman, do you have him?

00:01:14.000 He said, shoot him.

00:01:15.240 I said, Justin, shoot.

00:01:16.680 You can download this episode and others from Lines and Tines with Spencer Graves on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:25.300 The social media trend is landing some Gen Zers in jail.

00:01:29.280 The progressive media darling whose public meltdown got her fired.

00:01:32.960 And the massive TikTok boycott against Target that actually makes no sense.

00:01:37.300 You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media.

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00:01:55.640 Saturday, May 2nd, country's biggest stars will be in Austin, Texas at our 2026 iHeart Country Festival presented by Capital One.

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00:02:27.480 Where are you living now, in L.A.?

00:02:28.840 I live in D.C.

00:02:30.040 You're in D.C.

00:02:30.660 I moved to New York because I'm Donnie, you know. I don't know.

00:02:35.680 No, I'm moving to New York because actually I just can't live in D.C. anymore.

00:02:39.720 How many years have you been in D.C.?

00:02:41.360 Too many. Five.

00:02:44.260 It's a long time.

00:02:44.900 It's a long time.

00:02:46.220 Do people feel that way? Do you feel like a foreigner in D.C.?

00:02:49.360 Are there people from D.C. that feel like, or even, you know, been there seven, eight years that feel like I should be here in my life?

00:02:55.260 Here's what I'm going to say.

00:02:57.460 No offense to anyone who lives in D.C.

00:02:59.740 Yeah.

00:03:00.340 But New York is a place that's self-selecting.

00:03:05.900 You have to, one, want to live in New York.

00:03:09.240 Yeah.

00:03:09.720 Two, move there.

00:03:12.260 Yeah.

00:03:12.480 Not easy.

00:03:13.980 Three, and then actually enjoy living there.

00:03:17.880 It's not easy to live in New York.

00:03:20.200 So it's a very special type of person who actually, you don't believe me, who moves to New York and then stays.

00:03:28.220 So I think it's a very, it's a self-selecting.

00:03:30.100 Whereas D.C., it's like, here I am.

00:03:34.820 I'm in D.C. for something else.

00:03:37.360 And people just stay because it's easy.

00:03:39.320 And is it safer now than ever because of Donald Trump?

00:03:42.420 I don't know.

00:03:42.960 I, no, it's...

00:03:43.760 Restaurants are opening every, quote unquote, every day now.

00:03:47.780 It's never been safer.

00:03:48.280 It's incredible.

00:03:48.860 Thank you, President Trump.

00:03:50.140 Thank you.

00:03:50.620 Do you see, do you see armed guards?

00:03:52.160 I mean, what, what is it, what is it like in Washington?

00:03:53.860 There are troops on the street, yeah.

00:03:55.700 And is it intimidating or is it now just becoming normalized?

00:03:57.900 Well, I have to say that I hated them at first.

00:04:01.360 Yeah.

00:04:01.560 But did you see the clip of the National Guard giving out coffee and donuts and hot chocolate to the citizens of Minneapolis?

00:04:11.660 I've seen other clips.

00:04:13.920 You haven't seen, okay.

00:04:14.840 Well, I have to say, I actually cried when I saw that because it was such a hopeful moment to see.

00:04:20.840 First off, they didn't have masks on.

00:04:22.620 Thank you.

00:04:23.040 And they were there to help people express their First Amendment rights.

00:04:31.540 And so I, and then it was like, oh, it's really interesting how like the people who call upon the military really impacts the way you perceive, perceive the troops.

00:04:44.340 Yeah.

00:04:44.820 Because I was a little like, fuck these fucking people in D.C.

00:04:47.960 But this is the same people, you know?

00:04:49.460 So that was actually a wake up call for me.

00:04:51.100 You know, it's interesting because we, I federalized, well, before they were federalized, our National Guard in Southern California, those same Guard men and women were actually called up to help with the wildfire recovery in Los Angeles.

00:05:05.920 And the same exact examples of selfies.

00:05:08.640 One of the biggest challenges we had was all the food and water, people coming up, thanking them for being there.

00:05:13.540 These are, by the way, these National Guard men and women are firefighters, police officers, they're teachers, they're lawyers, they're folks that quite literally were pulled off those lines, those front lines to be there for others.

00:05:27.740 And then, you know, a few months later, they're federalized and vilified, even though they were doing a few months later, a few months earlier, some really important work.

00:05:37.920 So it's interesting, I appreciate you trying to humanize aspects of this and not necessarily seeing the individual in a weaponized way.

00:05:45.340 How are you feeling about everything?

00:05:48.360 Can I answer first?

00:05:51.780 By the way, thank you for the question.

00:05:53.440 Yes, why don't you answer it?

00:05:56.140 I am so, I'm an empath.

00:06:01.140 And I feel so, I just feel not destroyed, but I feel very beaten down by everything I've been seeing.

00:06:12.620 And I feel a responsibility to stay strong for my audience.

00:06:17.860 But I do feel it weighing on me emotionally.

00:06:22.200 Do you, like, I don't know how you, like, do you?

00:06:25.640 I was, I was, the number of people, after the Freddie murder, death, however one wants to describe it, number of people that I know that broke down, I mean, men, women, people that hadn't broken down yet, I mean, physically crying, emotional about what was happening.

00:06:49.280 And the fact that you bring this up, I deeply appreciate that, that stacking of stress that people are feeling, that anxiety, and just that sense of not just loss, but hopelessness almost, that, you know, this situation's now out of our control or on the other side of something.

00:07:06.840 But then I think that's, like, the hope in it.

00:07:08.860 Sorry, I'm going to probably cry at some point.

00:07:10.680 I'm very emotional.

00:07:11.960 But the residents of Minneapolis stood strong, and it appears as though Trump and the goons, they're all dissipating.

00:07:25.460 And I hate that it took a murder for it to happen.

00:07:29.800 But what I have always loved about this country is that we are imbued with the spirit of fuck you.

00:07:39.420 Can we swear?

00:07:39.840 Can we swear?

00:07:40.780 It's a little late now.

00:07:41.960 Okay.

00:07:43.540 But there's nothing more American than, like, than when someone's like, you have to do this.

00:07:51.200 And you say, fuck you, make me.

00:07:53.980 You know?

00:07:54.700 And so I love that Minneapolis was like, fuck you, make me.

00:08:00.520 Trump's realizing that that is America to the core.

00:08:04.740 And so I find it to be very hopeful.

00:08:06.400 But I hate, I hate what people have to go through and what we're all, this collective trauma we're all experiencing.

00:08:14.860 Were you, I mean, it's, it's, it's, has it been sort of boiling, gotten to a point where it's boiling over now for you?

00:08:22.840 Or has this been a slow boil?

00:08:24.560 Or have you been feeling this way, you know, ever, you know, going back even to when Trump was going down the escalator 10 years, 10 years ago?

00:08:31.700 Or is it really since this latest, you know, Trump 2.0?

00:08:35.460 I think it's Trump 2.0.

00:08:36.880 And I think it's the mask.

00:08:38.360 I think it's just, it's just a couple of things.

00:08:41.900 He has his own secret military.

00:08:44.080 Let's just call it what it is.

00:08:45.560 The secret police.

00:08:48.380 Masked.

00:08:48.860 Like, they're not even in uniforms.

00:08:51.840 Like, they're not even in uniforms.

00:08:54.120 Just classless.

00:08:55.740 Like, there's not, there's not even like, and they're literally terrorizing Americans.

00:09:03.880 So it's, it's the, it's the images of that, that I think, I, I didn't fully appreciate how much it was weighing on me.

00:09:14.940 And I'm sure it has been for a lot of people until I actually saw what the National Guard did.

00:09:20.560 It's a very simple thing, but just trying to de-escalate.

00:09:23.940 Just that act of compassion.

00:09:25.520 Compassion.

00:09:26.120 And humanity.

00:09:26.880 Yeah.

00:09:27.120 And respecting their right to peacefully protest and to observe.

00:09:32.840 And what, it's interesting.

00:09:34.240 Let me unpack that a little bit more.

00:09:35.540 What was, I mean, for you, it was just that, that in the midst of all of this, there was a flower blooming of sorts.

00:09:42.260 It was just, America, this country has always been complicated.

00:09:48.320 But there was always this North Star of what we wanted America to be here and what we wanted it to be for countries around the world.

00:10:01.640 And I thought that idea of smiling troops being there to help used to be what I was like, to me, was like what America is.

00:10:13.140 Yeah.

00:10:13.860 Or what America would strive to be.

00:10:16.920 And I think that had been lost in all of this.

00:10:20.480 So, it was like a moment where there was like a moment to like sigh, I guess.

00:10:27.900 But, I don't know.

00:10:31.020 It's, what's happening is not great.

00:10:34.160 It's not great.

00:10:35.000 It's not going to stop.

00:10:37.080 I know Greg Bavino.

00:10:39.700 I hate that I know him.

00:10:40.660 I hate that I know that he exists.

00:10:43.080 It's offensive.

00:10:44.220 I'm offended by him.

00:10:45.860 I hate looking at him.

00:10:47.480 Sorry, he's an ugly motherfucker.

00:10:49.840 He looks, he looks exactly how you think he'd look.

00:10:54.420 Someone who thinks like what, thinks what he's doing is okay.

00:10:59.220 History is littered with people like that.

00:11:04.380 And I say littered intentionally because he's trash.

00:11:09.520 And I'm so, I'm just, I just cannot wait until round two.

00:11:15.080 We will get power again.

00:11:17.120 It is imperative.

00:11:19.520 It is imperative.

00:11:21.960 I know, I know, I don't know what you're doing for 2028.

00:11:25.580 I don't know what you're doing.

00:11:26.540 I don't know if you're running.

00:11:28.040 Probably are.

00:11:29.080 There, I have to imagine that someone, it has to be an anti-corruption message.

00:11:42.060 And we have to run on righting every single wrong that is happening right now.

00:11:47.700 And that includes going after the lowest person who shoots, executes a citizen on the street

00:11:57.620 and the people who instruct them to do it.

00:12:02.820 Accountability.

00:12:03.460 I want to unpack a lot of this and I want to go back a little bit because it's interesting,

00:12:08.240 just your own journey.

00:12:09.200 And I love you say you're an empath and you're absorbing and feeling all these things.

00:12:13.420 And your own journey into politics, and I want to, we'll get back to this moment and

00:12:18.800 what it means and really reinforce where we began this conversation.

00:12:23.320 But for you, you began not in a political frame.

00:12:26.840 I mean, your journey from Michigan to New York, you talked about your reverence for wanting

00:12:31.720 to live in New York and the challenge of being in New York, led you to politics.

00:12:36.820 But first you stopped on the way of reality television, producing Real Housewives of not

00:12:44.940 New York, but Miami, some other interesting reality shows.

00:12:50.040 So what, I mean, talk to me a little bit about your journey.

00:12:53.500 You grew up in Michigan.

00:12:55.200 Was your aspiration politics or was it, was it reality TV?

00:12:59.820 Was it Hollywood?

00:13:00.720 Where'd you happen to end up?

00:13:01.300 No, no.

00:13:02.260 Where I come from, you don't aspire.

00:13:05.540 You don't aspire.

00:13:07.300 I, I didn't, I didn't even know college was an option until senior year of high school.

00:13:13.100 People are like, where are you going to college?

00:13:14.860 I was like, what?

00:13:15.540 College?

00:13:16.160 College?

00:13:17.540 Um, it is impossible that I am sitting across from you right now.

00:13:23.940 It is highly improbable.

00:13:27.180 Um, I don't know if you pray or if you're religious or I, I'm not religious.

00:13:33.660 I'm very spiritual and I believe in something greater than myself.

00:13:37.800 And so looking at my life, the way it has unfolded, I have to believe it is for some

00:13:45.420 sort of greater good.

00:13:47.120 Uh, because my mom's a drug addict, dad's alcoholic, you know, classic story.

00:13:53.760 Uh, barely graduated high school.

00:13:56.260 Don't have a college degree.

00:13:57.800 And yeah, I went to New York when I was 16 and have you ever had love at first sight?

00:14:02.640 Have you?

00:14:03.220 I haven't except for when I went to New York for a day.

00:14:08.340 I went to see the nine 11.

00:14:11.420 It was still like a hole in the ground and you could still smell the burning and like

00:14:17.940 the Burger King sign still had, uh, marks on it from the building falling nearby.

00:14:23.500 And, uh, I was on the train and I was like, Oh my God, I need to live here.

00:14:27.940 Wow.

00:14:28.280 Uh, and I told my family, they're like, okay, move to New York.

00:14:33.360 Sure.

00:14:34.120 But I did when I was 20.

00:14:35.560 And so the reality TV stuff, when that happened, it was because, uh, I was in the right place

00:14:42.280 at the right time and someone I knew was like, Hey, do you, you know, I had, I had done a

00:14:47.220 little bit of like, I had built a little bit of something for myself prior to that.

00:14:52.420 And someone I knew was impressed by what I had created and said, well, do you want to

00:14:56.780 try to be an associate producer for this VH one show?

00:14:59.560 And I was like, yeah.

00:15:02.260 And, uh, I, I was just excited that I was going to have a career because I, I, again,

00:15:12.980 like people just don't like people have jobs where I'm from, you know, most of the, they

00:15:16.740 don't have careers.

00:15:17.540 And where exactly were you from?

00:15:19.080 Warren, Michigan.

00:15:20.060 Warren, Michigan.

00:15:20.820 Yeah.

00:15:21.020 Which is 13 mile in Shaner.

00:15:22.600 Shout out to anyone that, uh, knows where that is, but, uh, family, small family, uh,

00:15:28.880 small family, small family.

00:15:31.580 Um, and I, I had a sister.

00:15:35.100 She, she was, um, she was murdered when I was 25.

00:15:39.380 And so that's why I also have deep, um, when, when things like this happen, I have deep feelings

00:15:46.740 because, uh, losing someone unexpectedly is awful in and of itself.

00:15:55.960 And grief is awful, regardless of whether it happens to someone that you're expecting is

00:16:00.200 going to die or whether it happens unexpectedly.

00:16:02.800 But then on top of it, for it to be at the hands of someone else is like, is something

00:16:08.540 that is almost impossible to process.

00:16:10.800 And were you guys very close?

00:16:12.860 Uh, we were not extremely close because we, we, we were in a very dysfunctional family.

00:16:18.420 And I think when you're in a family that's dysfunctional, it is incredibly hard.

00:16:23.860 I think you just try, you're just trying to survive the day.

00:16:27.580 And I think one way you do that is if your siblings is you unite, but I think we, we just

00:16:32.780 were independent and tried to do it our own ways.

00:16:34.960 So we weren't extremely close, but.

00:16:36.900 But the whole process of just coping and then coping with your sister's sudden death.

00:16:42.600 I mean.

00:16:44.160 Yeah.

00:16:44.500 But I think she saved my life.

00:16:47.120 In what respect?

00:16:53.040 Well, I had, uh, when she passed away, I got into therapy.

00:17:03.600 So.

00:17:05.720 And that like, uh, do people cry on this podcast, but, uh, they do now.

00:17:11.260 Please feel free.

00:17:12.380 Very different from Ben Shapiro, huh?

00:17:14.440 Uh, but, um, and so, and in many ways that put me on the path I'm on now.

00:17:25.400 And you never, you never thought about seeking it prior.

00:17:28.460 No.

00:17:29.560 And it was out of what?

00:17:30.360 Just desperation.

00:17:31.540 Desperation.

00:17:32.100 I don't know if you ever experienced grief, but I was, uh, not processing the grief.

00:17:36.900 And when you don't process your feelings, they come out sideways.

00:17:40.280 And so I was lashing out at people and I was, I was, it wasn't good.

00:17:43.580 So, uh, so I got into therapy.

00:17:46.440 I still have the same therapist.

00:17:47.720 Wow.

00:17:49.220 15 years later.

00:17:50.720 Wow.

00:17:51.500 Uh, and, uh, it, um, changed my life.

00:17:55.240 It changed my life.

00:17:55.940 And how much younger were you than your sister?

00:17:58.800 She was actually three years younger than me.

00:18:01.060 Three years younger.

00:18:01.720 So you were a little older.

00:18:02.680 Yeah.

00:18:02.880 And you were living in New York at the time still.

00:18:05.000 Yeah.

00:18:05.540 Yeah.

00:18:06.600 So it's interesting.

00:18:07.780 Just, I mean, so a remarkable background being able to just with your own perseverance,

00:18:12.760 your own resilience to be able to work through mom, dad, all their struggles.

00:18:17.660 And then of course your own processing with your sister.

00:18:20.640 But, you know, it was really, you talk about love at first sight and just that this just

00:18:25.040 happenstance, this coming into a city and been to before, and then just seeing something,

00:18:30.120 I imagine just in awe, uh, and feeling something, what in yourself, just inspired.

00:18:35.040 I don't know what that thing is.

00:18:36.840 I don't know what that thing is, but whatever that feeling is, I've learned to trust it.

00:18:42.060 And so that's like the same feeling I had when I was like, I should start a YouTube channel.

00:18:46.720 It was just that.

00:18:47.780 And I was like, oh, okay.

00:18:48.520 And I'm just going to follow that idea until, uh, until it takes me to wherever it's meant

00:18:55.780 to take me.

00:18:56.360 So I don't know what that is.

00:18:58.220 Maybe that's, maybe that's God.

00:18:59.460 I don't know.

00:19:00.400 I don't know.

00:19:01.640 But, um, it's certainly, I think when that's like moments, I think there are moments of

00:19:07.620 inspiration, right?

00:19:08.480 I think inspiration is actually not though it's in us, it's not of us.

00:19:13.040 I think a lot of creative people would, would express inspiration as something that they

00:19:17.920 actually don't necessarily feel like they own though.

00:19:21.100 They're the instrument of it.

00:19:22.700 So, uh, so yeah, I don't, I don't know what that is, but I've, I, I, I do try to trust,

00:19:28.340 trust, trust, trust ideas that I feel like, um, that pop into my head.

00:19:34.520 And so one of those ideas was the opportunity to join VH1, which I imagine back in the day

00:19:40.520 was, I mean, sort of peak consciousness.

00:19:43.480 VH1 was in its ascendancy or what was VH1 when you joined them?

00:19:47.160 2010, 2009.

00:19:49.380 Uh, I think it was like, I think we were just past the crest of like reality, like the golden

00:19:55.820 era of reality TV maybe.

00:19:57.840 But the reason why I did that was because, um, prior to that I actually was doing on camera

00:20:04.340 work.

00:20:04.960 Um, I worked in radio and then I, uh, I started like this small little web series for a channel

00:20:11.200 called Logo and, uh, for whatever reason, I'm an introvert.

00:20:15.700 I'm an introvert.

00:20:16.560 I don't want to go outside.

00:20:18.080 I don't want to be around people.

00:20:19.680 Honestly, don't want to be in big groups, but for some reason you put a camera in front

00:20:24.200 of me and I'm really comfortable and, uh, and I can talk to anyone and I don't know what

00:20:30.040 that is.

00:20:30.960 And I have a talent for making people sometimes feel comfortable on camera with me.

00:20:35.480 And so, uh, I didn't, but I don't have a desire.

00:20:40.780 I did not have a desire to just be on camera, to be on camera.

00:20:43.360 And so, uh, when I was given the opportunity to make reality TV and to make TV, to learn

00:20:51.320 a skill, I, I literally 25 year old Keith was like, well, you're always going to have

00:20:58.640 that thing.

00:20:59.500 If you ever want to go back on camera, why don't you learn how to do something?

00:21:04.180 And so that's what I did.

00:21:07.380 I learned, I learned a skill and thank God, like, I think it's very like that, like there's

00:21:12.940 so much from my, um, career that I draw upon for what I'm doing now that, uh, I'm glad that

00:21:18.980 I have those skills to, um, I think just makes me better at what I do.

00:21:23.200 And how many, so how many years were you now learning behind the camera, those skills, not

00:21:29.040 just a VH one, but I imagine other attributes or component parts of your career, you know,

00:21:34.100 with all of these different and disparate shows, were they all for VH one or for the, for

00:21:37.940 others?

00:21:38.560 No, I was a freelance producer.

00:21:39.820 So you, the production companies hire you.

00:21:41.700 That wasn't through the, um, through the network.

00:21:44.560 How many years were you in production business?

00:21:48.140 A while.

00:21:48.920 Cause I did TV, but then I started my own production company, uh, when I was like 28, 29.

00:21:55.920 And then I was making documentary style content for brands.

00:22:00.000 So like Equinox, Lexus, Stoli, uh, that sort of thing.

00:22:05.380 So I've, I've been doing production.

00:22:06.960 I was, I had been doing production for a long time.

00:22:09.480 And what was that?

00:22:10.000 I mean, so we talk about those skills cause I don't want to get into this because I

00:22:12.900 think those skills, you've obviously, you've, you've built that bridge and you've translated

00:22:16.740 those skills in the political sense, which I think is so important right now, particularly

00:22:20.500 as it relates to this dialectic we're having in this country around the asymmetry in some

00:22:25.040 respects of right-wing media versus the messaging or lack thereof and, and the capacity to, to

00:22:30.580 message and to break through in the democratic space.

00:22:33.480 But what were those sort of fundamental skills of the producing skills that you learned?

00:22:38.260 What were those attributes?

00:22:39.860 Uh, what was that muscle memory that you've been able to, you know, really that allowed

00:22:43.900 you to start doing all those, you know, to do those ads for Equinox and everybody else

00:22:48.460 to go out on your own?

00:22:49.720 Uh, okay.

00:22:51.000 So, so this is a little like behind the scenes, but like reality TV, good reality TV.

00:22:55.940 Do you watch reality TV?

00:22:57.220 I feel like I'm living in it, but yeah.

00:22:59.680 You don't watch it?

00:23:00.380 Not as much as I do.

00:23:01.640 What do you watch?

00:23:02.540 Do you watch anything?

00:23:03.740 I watch, uh, I'm a news.

00:23:05.760 I mean, I'm a junkie.

00:23:06.220 You don't watch anything?

00:23:07.240 You know, you're not like, at night I watch people play Magic the Gathering.

00:23:11.620 That's how I unwind.

00:23:12.560 Is that it?

00:23:13.040 Yeah.

00:23:13.220 On YouTube.

00:23:13.900 I'm just, I got four kids.

00:23:15.360 I'm just trying to get everyone to bed.

00:23:16.980 Okay.

00:23:17.320 And I'm, you know, dying a thousand deaths.

00:23:18.780 The owner of California watches nothing.

00:23:20.320 Well, well, besides YouTube, uh, you know, nonstop, I'm watching my kids playing video

00:23:25.840 games.

00:23:26.140 So that's, uh, so I've become a bit of an expert extension of all.

00:23:31.720 I mean, name it sort of the latest fortnight, whatever, and fill in the blank.

00:23:35.000 I love fortnight.

00:23:35.560 I hard not to.

00:23:36.620 I did fortnight Fridays.

00:23:37.780 I did fortnight Fridays.

00:23:38.960 Yeah.

00:23:39.520 Ah, do you, are you good at building?

00:23:41.260 I'm not very good at building.

00:23:42.400 I hate building.

00:23:43.200 I play only no building.

00:23:45.140 I don't think it's fun.

00:23:46.500 It's not.

00:23:46.860 I don't want to make a little box to hide in.

00:23:48.500 Sorry.

00:23:49.060 I love it.

00:23:49.760 Uh, all right.

00:23:50.280 Anyways, uh, reality TV.

00:23:51.820 So I, uh, so the way the good reality TV.

00:23:57.380 So there's bad reality TV, which is basically bad improv where they're like this, this, and

00:24:02.220 this is going to happen.

00:24:03.180 We're going to shoot it for 15 minutes.

00:24:04.860 That's not, you can always tell when people are acting poorly.

00:24:09.240 Good reality TV is like three hours of footage that me as a story producer and editor will

00:24:16.560 cut down to five minutes.

00:24:17.920 Wow.

00:24:18.380 And so three hours to five minutes.

00:24:20.120 Yes.

00:24:20.480 And so the skill of a reality TV producer is saying, all right, what is, how do we turn

00:24:27.160 this into a story?

00:24:28.360 Yeah.

00:24:29.020 What are the most interesting moments from this story?

00:24:32.300 And, uh, how do we make a beginning, middle end?

00:24:35.420 And so of course that, that, that, and I'm sure your, your staff will know this, being

00:24:41.540 able to know what's a moment is, uh, incredibly valuable, especially now.

00:24:49.060 I think I wasn't expecting my work in reality TV to be like honing my ability to know like

00:24:55.120 what is interesting, what's a moment, what's clippable, but that's the same exact thing that

00:24:59.920 I do now.

00:25:00.400 Like whether it's curate and whether it's finding something to post on the internet,

00:25:04.660 that I want to draw people's attention to, or if it's like just knowing from my own

00:25:09.500 YouTube channel, like what, like, what are the beats of this story or like, what are

00:25:14.000 like the clips that I think are actually going to, or like, what's the hook going to be that

00:25:17.240 actually, you know, makes resonates with the audience.

00:25:20.340 So, uh, so that's like one very easy thing that I've learned from it.

00:25:25.740 Characters, friction, conflict.

00:25:28.680 I mean, how, what's the arc?

00:25:30.180 What's the story?

00:25:31.020 I mean, how does, how do you break down the essence of, you know, what makes, what, what

00:25:36.440 punches through and that reality TV sense.

00:25:38.680 And again, we'll translate it in the political sense as well.

00:25:41.640 But I mean, is there, it, I imagine there's a tension, uh, that is also something that

00:25:46.660 by definition people seem to be attracted to.

00:25:48.780 Well, there's a tension between the production and the talent always because the talent doesn't

00:25:55.100 want to get pushed too far.

00:25:56.420 Right.

00:25:56.960 The production wants to push them as far as possible.

00:25:59.120 And then there's also a tension between like, what is the truth and like, what is the production

00:26:05.820 want to show to be the truth?

00:26:08.860 And what does the talent want to be the truth?

00:26:12.980 So I think the truth is also a tension depending on the show.

00:26:17.860 Uh, yeah.

00:26:20.420 Well, and we'll get to the Trump show in a second.

00:26:22.520 Cause I think that's at the core of, you know, if you could talk about truth and trust and

00:26:25.920 that tension and the character arc as well.

00:26:28.400 But so after a few years of doing all that, you somehow stumbled upon the city council,

00:26:33.500 uh, the president of the city council in New York city.

00:26:36.060 Was that just, uh, to help as an advisor, just, uh, a friend of a friend, uh, were you

00:26:41.500 looking to translate your, you know, and were you looking for a career change or what was

00:26:45.920 the, uh, what was the impetus?

00:26:47.220 Well, what happened actually was I had my production company.

00:26:50.680 It was pretty successful and Donald Trump got elected.

00:26:54.400 I was watching the Hillary Clinton campaign and I don't know how you thought the campaign

00:26:59.680 did, but I did not.

00:27:01.720 I was, I had, I had some notes notes and I remember this is when I still used Facebook,

00:27:10.340 uh, you know, my friends in Michigan posting positive pro Trump content.

00:27:17.500 And I was like, this feels a little weird.

00:27:19.620 And my friends in New York were like, what are you talking about?

00:27:21.440 He's crazy.

00:27:22.320 No one's going to vote for him.

00:27:23.280 I was like, I don't know guys.

00:27:24.200 Uh, and when he got elected, I just had that same thing where like when I was in, when

00:27:32.940 I had first seen New York, it's the same fucking thing where I was like, I need to change careers.

00:27:40.880 And so I did.

00:27:41.660 And it was literally in the moment, his election or just that just triggered like, it wasn't

00:27:46.780 even like, should I, it was like, I need to.

00:27:48.980 And it's probably naive to be like, I can make a difference, but I just really felt like

00:27:54.760 I could.

00:27:56.360 And so it's not like I changed careers and then it's the next day I'm sitting across from

00:28:01.600 Gavin Newsom.

00:28:02.420 It was literally like I changed careers and I was handing out, there's pictures of me

00:28:08.160 of doing this, handing out ballot, uh, like information on ballot proposals.

00:28:13.080 And I, I volunteered my local democratic club and I just did the same thing that I was

00:28:18.980 always do, which is like, I just want to, like, I just want to learn how this works.

00:28:23.760 I want to meet people.

00:28:25.020 I want to learn how this works and I can work hard.

00:28:27.720 I can work hard and thank God, I think I'm pretty smart so I can learn pretty fast too.

00:28:33.180 So when I, uh, so getting that job actually at the city council was, uh, incredible because

00:28:40.120 it was only two years prior that I was like, I want to work in politics.

00:28:43.900 And I was like then in city hall in New York city, uh, working in politics.

00:28:49.160 And so, uh, so that, but I, it wasn't like that.

00:28:53.060 I didn't know what the goal was.

00:28:54.400 I actually think goals are quite, quite limiting.

00:28:57.380 I don't want to set a goal.

00:28:59.380 You know, I think like, I think, I think we limit, we, our imagination limits us.

00:29:07.900 If we're up to me, I would probably be the chief of staff for an assemblyman in New York.

00:29:14.040 That's what I thought I wanted to do, which is great.

00:29:17.340 Meaning if you had set out.

00:29:18.760 If I had set out my goal, that was the goal.

00:29:20.800 That was it.

00:29:21.340 That was the goal.

00:29:22.120 Right.

00:29:23.280 I've really, I'm, I'm not in the goal business anymore.

00:29:26.520 I'm in, I'm in the, I just want to do the next right thing and see where, see where it

00:29:31.140 takes me.

00:29:32.060 And I mean, that's literally the mindset next right thing.

00:29:34.920 Yes.

00:29:35.260 Is that a moment by moment thing?

00:29:36.580 Day by day thing?

00:29:37.420 Is that month to month?

00:29:38.420 Or do you even calculate?

00:29:40.120 Uh, I think it's more, uh, intention, intentionality.

00:29:43.540 Yeah.

00:29:43.980 There you go.

00:29:44.400 I pray every morning.

00:29:46.520 Um, God, where would you have me go?

00:29:49.080 What would you have me do?

00:29:50.800 What would you have me say into whom?

00:29:52.800 And I just asked to be an instrument.

00:29:55.960 And I think if you do that and you try to try to, to, to, to,

00:30:01.580 to just, you know, work hard, be nice to people, incredible things can happen.

00:30:08.080 So, so I don't, yeah, I don't set goals, but, uh, but thank God, because if I did, I

00:30:15.200 think I'd, I think my life would be much smaller than it is right now.

00:30:19.460 So you, uh, find Trump, inspiration, desperation, two driving forces of life.

00:30:26.740 You're inspired to then, you know, take a cue from the universe in a spiritual sense and

00:30:31.200 being open to this new opportunity, um, sort of allowing your destiny to take shape.

00:30:36.480 Um, this opportunity presents itself.

00:30:39.240 You come from a background, your mom, I imagine the more conservative.

00:30:43.900 She's very conservative.

00:30:45.440 Well, she, she wouldn't call herself.

00:30:46.780 She thinks she's a libertarian, but I'm, I'm.

00:30:49.900 Did you find yourself, were you, did you have a more conservative bent, uh, but were bent

00:30:54.580 out of shape?

00:30:55.040 No, they're like Clinton voters.

00:30:56.360 I was raised as a Democrat.

00:30:58.480 You were raised as a Democrat.

00:30:59.280 Yeah.

00:30:59.640 Yeah.

00:30:59.800 They're Clinton voters.

00:31:00.800 Interesting.

00:31:01.280 They took me, I remember one of my earliest members is going to a Clinton rally.

00:31:05.580 But when did your mom vote for Trump that first time?

00:31:08.860 Uh, I think she, I don't know if she did actually.

00:31:14.040 Interesting.

00:31:14.680 Yeah.

00:31:15.100 But I know she did in 2020 and I know she did in 2024.

00:31:18.780 She did later.

00:31:19.860 Yeah.

00:31:20.540 We'll get to that in a minute.

00:31:21.860 Yeah.

00:31:22.400 So you're in the city council.

00:31:23.780 How many years?

00:31:24.300 How long were you there?

00:31:26.360 Like eight months.

00:31:28.240 I'm not, I'm not good at government.

00:31:30.140 I don't ever want to do that again.

00:31:31.260 Good to know.

00:31:32.220 Good information.

00:31:32.620 Part of the problem.

00:31:33.520 It's easier to be on the outside talking about the way the world should be.

00:31:36.660 Honestly, honestly, nothing made me more conservative than working for the most liberal

00:31:40.980 government in America.

00:31:42.280 It was awful.

00:31:43.860 They just passed laws to pass laws.

00:31:46.400 Yeah.

00:31:46.840 Program passing is not problem solving.

00:31:49.080 It, it, it, it, it was not for me.

00:31:52.600 It's not for me, but I, but I did, I did my time.

00:31:55.300 And what kind of work were you doing at the time for them?

00:31:57.760 Um, that's where I learned how to tweet.

00:31:59.760 That's where I learned how to tweet.

00:32:00.660 So I was the, I was the, the person who was the digital director, uh, Kevin moved to the

00:32:08.480 Pete Buttigieg campaign and to do work there.

00:32:12.620 And so they had me fill in and, and, uh, the comms director at the time, I'm never going

00:32:16.760 to forget this.

00:32:17.260 I'm sorry.

00:32:17.680 I'm never going to forget it.

00:32:18.920 She was like, she was like, I know she was like, we actually need someone who knows what

00:32:23.860 they're doing.

00:32:24.280 So you can fill in for now.

00:32:26.480 Yeah.

00:32:26.800 Clearly you're not that good.

00:32:28.020 But you know, we need someone that actually knows what they're doing.

00:32:30.760 And, uh, I was like, okay.

00:32:34.800 And then I was like, I'm going to figure this out.

00:32:36.960 I'm going to figure this out.

00:32:38.360 And so that's what I kind of dedicated my time to was like understanding how Twitter works,

00:32:43.240 understanding how you can frame something in some way that like more people can see it.

00:32:48.540 Um, so it was like a big, I mean, the account, this, the speaker's account had like 34,000

00:32:57.440 followers and I was wracked with anxiety about tweeting for this.

00:33:03.000 Like there were some nights where I did not sleep.

00:33:04.900 I was like, I'm afraid I'm going to like start a war or something.

00:33:07.400 Like I'm going to tweet the wrong thing.

00:33:10.200 Uh, and so, but, but no, I took it as a, I took it as a big opportunity to just learn,

00:33:16.300 to learn how to, how it all works.

00:33:19.380 I mean, I mean, obviously now it's really funny because in hindsight, I, I, you know,

00:33:23.560 I have a bigger reach than probably the speaker of the New York city council.

00:33:28.660 I think we'll, uh, we'll, we'll establish that in a moment, but within a moment, eight months,

00:33:34.420 uh, in political terms, you said, I'm out of here.

00:33:37.600 And is that when you went to work for the Bloomberg campaign or was there a gap in between?

00:33:42.380 Uh, that is when I went to work for the Bloomberg campaign.

00:33:45.660 Yeah.

00:33:46.300 And it was just cause they were writing a big check or you were passionate about it,

00:33:49.300 or you just saw this sort of excesses of progressive liberalism and wanted a more moderating voice.

00:33:54.920 He was the only one that would hire me.

00:33:56.520 He's the only one that would hire me.

00:33:58.540 So I was like, all right, Bloomberg, baby, let's go.

00:34:02.160 And just to Bloomberg 2020.

00:34:03.860 And doing, and doing tweets for him.

00:34:05.600 What were you doing?

00:34:06.100 What was the job?

00:34:06.720 No, no.

00:34:07.080 That's the thing is like people, that's everything in my resume.

00:34:10.220 This is the thing people like attack me for the most that I worked for Bloomberg.

00:34:14.280 First off, he's the only guy that would hire me.

00:34:16.940 Secondly, I was a press lead.

00:34:18.820 Do you know what a press lead is?

00:34:19.900 Not a, I should know.

00:34:21.160 I probably have one.

00:34:21.760 I mean, you probably do.

00:34:22.960 But it's, it's basically like I go, I'm part of the advanced team.

00:34:28.360 And my job is to go to the riser and make sure the riser set up.

00:34:32.600 And there's like, there is probably is.

00:34:36.400 And there's a, there's a name for the press.

00:34:38.420 And then I make sure they get to their spot.

00:34:40.660 That was it.

00:34:41.340 Yeah.

00:34:41.800 Highest and best use.

00:34:42.960 Oh yeah.

00:34:43.260 All these years.

00:34:44.080 Oh yeah.

00:34:44.520 All that skillset that you developed.

00:34:46.200 Oh yeah.

00:34:46.540 So everyone who was like Keith Edwards, Bloomberg, baby, I was doing nothing.

00:34:51.760 I was just trying to, I was just trying to get some experience.

00:34:54.420 I was just trying to get some experience.

00:34:56.900 And that lasted how long?

00:34:58.620 That was just through the campaign.

00:35:00.020 I was, however long the campaign was two months and $2 billion later.

00:35:03.800 Good severance, right?

00:35:04.860 So you had a few extra months.

00:35:06.200 Yeah.

00:35:06.640 Yeah.

00:35:06.900 And then, and then it was the pandemic.

00:35:09.580 And the pandemic hit.

00:35:10.640 Yeah.

00:35:10.900 And then you're struggling what to figure out what's next step or what are you doing?

00:35:14.600 No.

00:35:14.820 And then I worked for the Lincoln project and I, but how did that happen?

00:35:18.440 What was the, what was the call?

00:35:20.300 I, I reached out.

00:35:23.520 I just like emailed a bunch of the founders.

00:35:27.100 So you're inspired by some of their ads and some of their, I mean, what they were putting

00:35:30.840 out.

00:35:31.080 What was, what was the inspiration?

00:35:32.540 What was the connection?

00:35:33.320 The inspiration was that I need money.

00:35:35.500 I needed a job and I knew they're hiring.

00:35:39.860 Explain what the Lincoln project, because a lot of folks know about it.

00:35:42.140 A lot of folks don't.

00:35:43.080 I mean, it sort of came.

00:35:43.720 First off, first off, these were Republicans who were, what's the word when you actually

00:35:50.020 believe in something?

00:35:52.020 Principled conservatives?

00:35:52.840 Principled.

00:35:53.240 They were principled Republicans.

00:35:55.720 And they were the only ones who were actually speaking out against Trump.

00:36:00.640 They organized and it became kind of like this really overnight story.

00:36:08.740 Viral videos.

00:36:10.220 Yeah.

00:36:10.540 Viral videos and everything.

00:36:12.180 Yeah.

00:36:12.440 And so they brought me on to be a regional communications director.

00:36:18.200 And that's what I, so that's what I did.

00:36:20.920 But I didn't know, I, I had no idea how to do that.

00:36:23.660 If I'm being completely honest, they're like, can you do this?

00:36:25.900 And I was like, yeah, of course.

00:36:27.380 And then would that include obviously sending tweets, communicating with the press?

00:36:30.700 It was like, I think I had like Michigan, Florida and was, I don't know.

00:36:36.380 Or maybe it was the, maybe it was like Michigan, Wisconsin and pencil.

00:36:40.020 I don't know.

00:36:40.400 I was given like three states to just get press.

00:36:43.900 And so, uh, here, here's the thing with me is like, I will figure it out.

00:36:51.220 I will figure it out.

00:36:52.780 So they gave me that job.

00:36:53.780 They're like, can you do X, Y, and Z?

00:36:55.500 I was like, Z, Y, X, of course, of course.

00:36:58.800 And then, uh, and then I remember I got the job.

00:37:02.240 I was like, oh my God, I called my friend, Eddie.

00:37:03.920 I was like, Eddie, I have to do X, Y, Z.

00:37:05.680 He's like, very easy, very easy.

00:37:07.560 Just do ABC.

00:37:08.440 Call me into eight hours.

00:37:09.600 I was like, okay, I did ABC.

00:37:11.620 I got, uh, like five hits that day or something.

00:37:16.320 They were super impressed.

00:37:18.100 And then I just like kept, I just kept trying to figure it out.

00:37:23.480 And, um, but what happened on that campaign was that, and it's so funny because it came

00:37:28.540 right after, right after the speaker job where I was learning how to tweet is that, um, they

00:37:34.920 had this, uh, these consultants who believe it or not, the Lincoln project during beginning

00:37:40.320 in like May, April, they like went a couple of, they just would go days without tweeting.

00:37:45.780 Like this just did not tweet.

00:37:47.260 And so they were like, we need someone to tweet for us.

00:37:49.680 Can you do that key?

00:37:50.320 And I was like, I can do that for you.

00:37:51.320 And so what I started to do was just tweet with like a personality.

00:37:54.720 It's very similar to what you, what you're doing on like the Newsom press office thing,

00:37:59.460 uh, where instead of just being like saying boring stuff, it was just like having personality

00:38:07.700 using memes.

00:38:08.500 And then that, that really started to take off.

00:38:11.580 And you deal with pseudonym or your name, your own name?

00:38:13.580 What'd you use?

00:38:13.900 No, we just like the Lincoln project.

00:38:15.600 It was on a Lincoln project brand.

00:38:16.540 And you were a Lincoln project for how long until November of that year, to remember

00:38:23.420 that year at 2020.

00:38:24.660 And then I went in the all stuff campaign to do the, um, what was it called when you

00:38:29.600 had to do the, the what?

00:38:33.860 Cause, cause there was too close.

00:38:35.600 The election was too close.

00:38:36.880 So they had to recount.

00:38:38.580 No, they had to do like the thing.

00:38:40.900 I forget what it's called.

00:38:41.700 The, Oh, the, the ballot harvesting.

00:38:43.620 Yeah.

00:38:43.860 The ballot harvesting, but you're, you're figuring out.

00:38:46.640 They had to steal the, they had to figure out how to steal the election.

00:38:47.900 No, not harvest.

00:38:48.440 Well, not harvesting.

00:38:49.240 That was part of, that was pre-election, but this is just basically the curation.

00:38:53.140 No, no, no, it's, uh, I don't forget what it's called.

00:38:56.780 No, it's, it's when the, in Georgia, when the election is within a certain percentage point,

00:39:02.000 Automatic recount.

00:39:03.180 No, they do another election.

00:39:05.080 What are you talking about?

00:39:05.920 The runoff?

00:39:06.620 Runoff.

00:39:07.020 That's what it is.

00:39:07.500 Runoff.

00:39:07.640 Okay, with all this, why did I not know that word?

00:39:09.400 Why don't we start with the runoff?

00:39:11.020 I was like, what happened to this season?

00:39:12.680 So I, I worked on the runoff.

00:39:14.040 You worked on the runoff.

00:39:14.960 Yeah.

00:39:15.320 Okay.

00:39:17.000 Hey there, this is Dr. Jesse Mills, director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health and host

00:39:21.620 of the Mailroom Podcast.

00:39:23.240 Each January, guys everywhere make the same resolutions.

00:39:26.560 Get stronger, work harder, fix what's broken.

00:39:29.380 But what if the real work isn't physical at all?

00:39:31.980 To kick off the new year, I sat down with Dr. Steve Poulter, a psychologist with over 30

00:39:36.340 years' experience helping men unpack shame, anxiety, and emotional pain they were never

00:39:41.340 taught to name.

00:39:42.080 In a powerful two-part conversation, we discuss why men aren't emotionally bulletproof, why

00:39:47.280 shame hides in plain sight, and how real strength comes from listening to yourself and to others.

00:39:53.440 Guys who are toxic, they're immature, or they've got something they just haven't resolved.

00:39:57.620 Once that gets resolved, then there comes empathy, as in compassion.

00:40:02.880 If you want this to be the year you stop powering through pain and start understanding what's

00:40:07.160 underneath, listen to the Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

00:40:12.760 favorite shows.

00:40:13.400 This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.

00:40:20.000 It was many and many a year ago, in a kingdom by the sea.

00:40:25.020 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Trainor, disappeared from a commune.

00:40:28.860 It was hard to wrap your head around.

00:40:30.200 It was nature, and trees, and praying, and drugs.

00:40:33.820 So no, I am not your guru.

00:40:37.600 And back then, I lied to my parents, I lied to police, I lied to everybody.

00:40:42.280 There were years, Ryder, where I could not say your name.

00:40:45.500 I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California, interview my friends,

00:40:49.080 family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can, to try to find out what actually happened.

00:40:54.320 Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend?

00:40:58.920 They have had this case for 30 years.

00:41:01.840 I'll teach you sons of a** to come around here and my wife.

00:41:04.900 Boom, boom.

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00:41:47.320 The moments that shape us often begin with a simple question.

00:41:51.480 What do I want my life to look like now?

00:41:54.220 I'm Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, and on Therapy for Black Girls,

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00:42:41.580 And so all this time, so you're just bouncing around, job to job.

00:42:45.580 That's campaigns, baby.

00:42:46.960 I know, this is campaigns.

00:42:48.500 But it's just learning your craft, honing those skills, sort of getting better and better all the time,

00:42:56.320 willing to take risks, sort of beginner's mind so you don't know what you don't know.

00:42:59.920 That's the thing that's beautiful, beginner's mind.

00:43:02.960 Yeah, that's very true, beginner's mind.

00:43:05.460 Which is, you know, and by the way, you don't know how things are usually done.

00:43:11.140 You don't know, yeah.

00:43:12.460 They will actually do it like this.

00:43:13.960 Thank you.

00:43:14.840 Exactly.

00:43:15.460 No, everything about that.

00:43:16.580 And by the way, that's an important, it's, I mean, we talk about a race or a minute,

00:43:19.500 you got to forget the things you know, because they get in the way of what, you know,

00:43:23.360 what presents itself, all these opportunities and that's newness and freshness.

00:43:26.920 So this perspective, you're willing to try new things, increase the number of tries in your life.

00:43:31.800 You're sitting there, you've got a spiritual connection to sort of the universe is going to present itself

00:43:37.060 and you're just going to take advantage based on your instinct and your capacity.

00:43:41.620 And willingness to take risks and try some new things.

00:43:44.920 And is that when recently then you stumbled upon this idea of starting your own YouTube channel?

00:43:50.540 I mean, which happened when?

00:43:51.640 When did you start this?

00:43:53.300 18 months ago, a year and a half ago.

00:43:55.240 And the impetus was what?

00:43:57.440 What was the inspiration?

00:43:58.780 What was the point of view?

00:44:00.880 It was literally like, I want a YouTube.

00:44:02.880 Should I start a YouTube channel?

00:44:04.040 It was that.

00:44:04.940 That was it.

00:44:05.440 And you had a camera and you just sat there.

00:44:08.180 I didn't even have a camera.

00:44:08.940 I just had an iPhone.

00:44:10.120 So you used your iPhone.

00:44:11.200 Yeah.

00:44:11.540 And you just started putting out content.

00:44:13.100 What was it?

00:44:14.080 Political content?

00:44:15.660 Just, you know, angry at the universe content?

00:44:18.360 Yeah, it was political content.

00:44:19.500 It was just, I didn't, I did not like Instagram or TikTok doing vertical videos.

00:44:25.500 I think you have to be an insane person to get attention, basically.

00:44:28.280 And that's not me.

00:44:32.960 You know, cars are a lot of yelling to, I think, get a video to do well for, for, for

00:44:39.620 politics.

00:44:40.340 I, I, I believe it.

00:44:42.280 So I just.

00:44:44.060 Were you yelling a lot at the Lincoln project?

00:44:45.980 I mean, is that how you were getting the attention back then?

00:44:48.640 No, I think the thing that people mistake is that like, I do think there has to be an

00:44:53.960 abrasiveness to get things to travel on the internet.

00:44:57.240 I don't think abrasiveness means mean necessarily.

00:45:00.640 I just think there has to be, uh, you have to be short and you have to be, uh, yeah, sharp.

00:45:09.620 Short and sharp.

00:45:10.900 Yes.

00:45:11.540 You're three hours down to five minutes.

00:45:13.720 Yeah.

00:45:14.380 This ability to curate.

00:45:15.720 Oh my God.

00:45:16.080 Look at you being an interviewer.

00:45:17.260 That's very good.

00:45:17.880 Yes.

00:45:18.460 So, so, so, so was that the idea to be an interviewer or the idea was just to go to

00:45:23.460 camera?

00:45:23.760 No, I hate doing interviews.

00:45:24.960 Do you like doing them?

00:45:25.860 I love doing interviews.

00:45:26.540 Really?

00:45:26.760 I'm fascinated with people.

00:45:28.220 I'm, I'm, I see.

00:45:28.900 I learn a lot about you.

00:45:30.200 See, I, I, they stress me out.

00:45:33.060 I mean, I like doing this.

00:45:34.440 This is nice.

00:45:35.080 You don't like, yeah.

00:45:35.820 But interviews, interviewing people, I think they do it well.

00:45:39.420 Like you're obviously very well researched and it's nice, but I, I, I find interviews

00:45:44.860 to be very stressful.

00:45:45.820 So I don't, I, I also the audience, my audience doesn't really like them.

00:45:49.720 So I stopped doing them.

00:45:50.700 They just like hearing from you directly.

00:45:52.120 Yeah.

00:45:52.300 Which is very flattering.

00:45:53.300 And which is flattering.

00:45:54.760 So was, so was that the, I mean, so the intention, talk about intentionality that you talked

00:45:59.820 about a moment ago, this notion of just, you know, trying to differentiate yourself, not

00:46:03.960 screaming, not yelling, not trying to go, uh, for sort of the crude, uh, viral video,

00:46:09.680 but to what?

00:46:10.600 To express what?

00:46:11.720 What was sort of the essence of what you thought would differentiate yourself?

00:46:15.200 Or did you even think that far out?

00:46:16.920 You just, I didn't think that far out.

00:46:18.600 I didn't think that far out.

00:46:19.760 I just said to myself, um, I, I said, so I didn't go to college.

00:46:26.500 And one of the things you learn about not going to college is that four years passes,

00:46:32.100 whether you're at college in college or not.

00:46:34.900 Right.

00:46:35.200 And then after the four years pass, you're like, well, I could have just went to college.

00:46:40.260 Now I couldn't afford at the time, but there are moments where afterwards you're like, well,

00:46:45.180 I could have went when I was 26.

00:46:47.060 I could have went when I was 28.

00:46:48.180 And then you're thinking like, well, you know, that time passes either way.

00:46:51.400 So this was like my version of that, where it was, I said to myself, well, if I started

00:46:57.960 YouTube channel today, I'd much rather have tried it in two years.

00:47:03.180 Maybe I had, I literally, this is the number.

00:47:05.020 Maybe I have 40,000 subscribers.

00:47:06.980 Was that a goal?

00:47:08.180 That was a number that was in my head.

00:47:09.680 I was like, that would be nice.

00:47:10.840 40,000 subscribers in two years.

00:47:14.220 Uh, but I did know that I would much rather in two years, cause I'm going to be two years

00:47:20.840 older, either way, God willing, I'd much rather have tried than not, because I know what it

00:47:27.300 feels like to know that time has passed and you didn't do the thing that you could have

00:47:30.300 done.

00:47:30.820 Nice.

00:47:31.540 So I, so that's why that's, that's one of the reasons why I started it when I, when I

00:47:36.100 did, cause I'd rather, I'd rather try it and, and have tried it than never have done

00:47:42.440 it.

00:47:42.660 Even though, does that make sense?

00:47:44.180 I mean, I remember Lucille Ball on her deathbed said, I don't regret anything I ever did.

00:47:49.260 I regret only the things I didn't do.

00:47:51.080 Yes.

00:47:51.560 I, I, yes.

00:47:52.940 And I mean, it's so, I think there's so much power in that, this notion that you miss a

00:47:57.200 hundred percent of the shots you don't take.

00:47:58.800 Yes.

00:47:59.300 Um, and the answer is no, unless you ask that fundamental notion of, and I, so I love when

00:48:04.260 you talk about a spiritual connection, just to seen things.

00:48:07.540 Also knows a yes, knows a yes.

00:48:09.380 And no is a yes.

00:48:10.500 We can get to that too, in terms of just your time and schedule and what you value.

00:48:14.300 But do you remember the time, I mean, when you did that first video and you press send,

00:48:18.800 I mean, what was it?

00:48:19.480 Do you remember what you talked about?

00:48:20.840 What was, how long it was?

00:48:22.520 What was, did you get five followers?

00:48:24.920 It was your friends, your family.

00:48:26.660 Uh, how did it, how did that first review your own self-reflection of that first video?

00:48:31.980 Uh, there was no editing.

00:48:33.920 I was talking directly to the camera and it was, I mean, it's one of those videos where

00:48:38.920 like, I'm, it was like, I'm talking about doing the thing that I'm doing.

00:48:42.700 It's not very interesting.

00:48:43.740 I'm starting a YouTube channel.

00:48:44.900 You know, it's not the most interesting.

00:48:46.300 And did you say, I'm starting YouTube to talk about Trump and politics?

00:48:49.900 Well, I actually said, I don't really want to do breaking news.

00:48:53.540 I don't want to talk about the news.

00:48:54.960 I don't want to do everything else.

00:48:56.060 Everyone else is doing cut to the fact that that's what I'm doing.

00:48:58.620 So again, uh, but that, but I, I knew that I, I wanted, I want, I felt like there was

00:49:06.800 something there.

00:49:08.140 What shifted was when I started to do, cause I would do one a week, one a week.

00:49:12.200 And that it's when it shifted, when I started, I committed to doing one a day in July.

00:49:17.900 July of last year, July of 24, 24, 24.

00:49:21.660 Yeah.

00:49:22.900 And that one a day, five days a week, one a day, one a day, every day.

00:49:28.320 For a month.

00:49:29.180 Seven days a week.

00:49:29.960 Yeah.

00:49:31.320 And then that went from zero subscribers to a hundred thousand in that month.

00:49:35.840 So wildly exceeding your 40,000 non-goal goals since we don't establish goals.

00:49:39.940 We don't establish goals, baby.

00:49:41.180 Forgive me.

00:49:41.820 We have ideas.

00:49:42.680 Even though you did.

00:49:43.980 So you're breaking your own rules.

00:49:45.340 I just want to establish the contradiction there.

00:49:46.680 I know.

00:49:47.220 It was more like, oh, that'd be nice.

00:49:48.520 It wasn't like, oh, that'd be nice.

00:49:50.180 But a hundred thousand was significant.

00:49:51.560 But I mean, you had, I remember reading a little bit about the one month process where

00:49:58.940 you were able to do that.

00:49:59.880 And just, I mean, it was like in weeks, was it during the Biden?

00:50:03.040 I mean, you really start to see your numbers grow.

00:50:05.500 I mean, you've got over a million plus.

00:50:06.840 You're one of the top.

00:50:07.700 And I think for people that just established, we could establish an offset.

00:50:11.440 But you, out of nowhere, just the last couple of years, hardly out of nowhere, we've established

00:50:15.340 all the hard work and grind and the work you've been doing for years and years.

00:50:18.820 But now you're one of the top 10 YouTube podcasters and just sort of blown through in a matter

00:50:26.500 of many months, but not that many months.

00:50:29.440 No, not that many.

00:50:30.680 And have one plus million, what?

00:50:32.900 1.1?

00:50:34.120 1.1, yeah.

00:50:35.460 A million subscribers.

00:50:36.680 But do you remember what, I mean, do you remember what really got you from, you know, those

00:50:40.780 first 50,000 to 500,000?

00:50:44.640 Was there sort of a moment?

00:50:46.120 Was there an issue, a crisis?

00:50:48.400 Was there a consciousness?

00:50:50.240 Was there sort of a, back to your own intentionality, was there a voice you found in yourself that

00:50:55.960 all of a sudden came out and really resonated with the audience?

00:50:58.600 Was it one thing or was it many things or was it just the stacking?

00:51:01.640 I think it's the stacking.

00:51:04.020 I remember my first video that went viral, then I got 20,000 views and I was like, oh my

00:51:10.820 God, I'm a genius.

00:51:12.180 Look around.

00:51:12.740 I figured, I'm a God.

00:51:13.980 I figured this out.

00:51:15.440 Was when I connected Truth Social's stock price to Donald Trump's electability.

00:51:27.080 And, but this, so like what I tried doing was I tried not, so basically I was like, I have

00:51:34.240 this chart and I just was leading people through the chart without telling them what it is, you

00:51:39.240 know?

00:51:39.420 And so YouTube's a lot about watch time.

00:51:41.780 And so I was just trying to see if I could try to like get people to hang on as I was

00:51:47.860 telling them like what this chart was doing.

00:51:50.080 And I, and I tied it to events that, you know, Trump getting, uh, you know, getting charged

00:51:57.340 with the, you know, all this stuff.

00:51:59.160 And then at the end, I revealed that it was the Truth Social stock.

00:52:03.860 So, um, so that was like that again, like all these like little things where you're like

00:52:09.400 learning the art of, of, um, of the platform.

00:52:16.320 So, so that's, that's one that, that I remember very well, but I actually think it's one of those

00:52:22.020 things where over time, you know, now, uh, you know, now I can, I just do this stuff very

00:52:30.140 easily, but it's, it's like an over time sort of thing where you just like, I think the

00:52:34.780 relentlessness and, and the repetition and I just want, I just want to constantly get better.

00:52:44.700 Um, and I, I wanted to like deliver value to the people who watch.

00:52:48.640 I don't, Oh, I feel like sometimes I miss the mark, but I think, I think having those

00:52:54.120 intentions about just wanting to improve, um, over time has, I just, I mean, do anything

00:53:02.100 long enough to get better at it.

00:53:03.380 I'd maybe, I don't know.

00:53:04.440 That's my experience.

00:53:05.460 Maybe not for someone else, but do it long enough and, uh, but it's just one of those

00:53:10.080 things slowly over time, you know, you add graphics, you add a logo, but it's just, it's

00:53:15.900 just like over time, it just, you just, things stack, you know, it's just like, I feel like

00:53:21.580 it's probably becoming governor.

00:53:23.280 Like it's like, you can't run for governor when you're 23.

00:53:29.160 Yep.

00:53:29.740 Right.

00:53:30.140 I mean, I mean, I guess, I guess you could, I was, I probably wouldn't win.

00:53:34.220 I was mayor.

00:53:35.280 I was relatively young.

00:53:36.060 I was on 23, but it was in my, my, my mid thirties, which felt young at the time.

00:53:40.120 Yeah.

00:53:40.540 No, it's about increasing the number of tries.

00:53:42.320 It's about trying new things, about iterating, but it's also about reflecting.

00:53:46.200 I mean, if you're going to, if you're going to grow, you've got to be socially aware.

00:53:49.860 You got to be emotionally intelligent.

00:53:51.580 You got to be able to figure out what you got right, what you got wrong.

00:53:54.900 You got to be willing to be self-critical.

00:53:56.260 You got to be willing to listen to people that disagree with you and not be stuck in your

00:53:59.780 own bubble and lane.

00:54:00.520 And I think that was one of the things, my understanding of you is you really went out and you started to

00:54:05.280 study what Midas Touch is doing and what David and others were doing.

00:54:09.120 And, you know, sort of success leaves clues, this power of emulation, but bringing it into

00:54:14.720 your own voice, uh, and making it your, your own unique and authentic.

00:54:18.900 That's what I tell a lot of creators is like, we don't, you don't have to like reinvent this

00:54:22.600 thing.

00:54:23.320 You don't have to reinvent it.

00:54:24.500 Like, like how it, how it's done is how it's done.

00:54:28.740 What differentiation can be and should be as you, like, how are you, it's, it's, it's

00:54:34.560 you being in it that makes it different ideally.

00:54:36.800 And if you being in it doesn't make it different, then that's something to look at, you know?

00:54:44.480 Uh, but certainly that's, I mean, I, I have to just compare it to, to what you do with

00:54:50.680 politics.

00:54:51.020 Like people want someone that is extremely themselves.

00:54:58.220 Uh, I, did you watch Oprah?

00:55:00.360 Have you ever watched Oprah?

00:55:01.400 Are you kidding?

00:55:02.040 Yeah.

00:55:02.140 Okay.

00:55:02.620 Yeah.

00:55:02.940 I, I remember this, uh, I was Oprah raised me by the way, Oprah raised me and I do.

00:55:10.000 You and tens of millions of others.

00:55:11.620 Literally a gay boy, uh, outside of Detroit.

00:55:14.320 She raised me.

00:55:15.220 Um, but I remember she had a story where when she first got into news, she was like, how would

00:55:24.420 Barbara Walters do this?

00:55:26.220 And I think it's a trap people fall into where they say to themselves, all right, how does

00:55:30.620 the person who's best at this do this?

00:55:32.100 I want to do it just like them.

00:55:33.540 And I think that's, that's a good way to start, but then you're just, you're always going to

00:55:38.400 be like the knockoff.

00:55:40.860 Yep.

00:55:42.200 Really figuring out how do I bring myself into this is the game changer.

00:55:47.640 I love that.

00:55:48.340 I tell kids all the time.

00:55:49.620 I said, learn from don't follow others.

00:55:51.680 Yes.

00:55:52.080 Your expression's unique.

00:55:53.300 No one else has it.

00:55:54.640 And, uh, this notion of authenticity is so important because everybody, especially with

00:55:59.060 everyone puts a mask on and sometimes their face grows into it.

00:56:02.840 They become someone they're not, which is to me, the greatest indictment.

00:56:06.780 Um, you see that on frankly, on Fox news and others where just people become, you know,

00:56:11.860 it's guy, people I've used to respect and all of a sudden two, three years, uh, as

00:56:16.920 being a part-time pundit on all of a sudden they become something I don't even recognize

00:56:21.000 at all.

00:56:21.640 Um, but, uh, otherwise they rust out because they just, they lack that authenticity.

00:56:25.940 They lack that differentiation, which I completely appreciate.

00:56:28.920 So what just in terms of your own communication and how you've differentiated yourself, um, and

00:56:34.600 how you've added, as you say, graphics and you started new things and logos and everything

00:56:39.020 else, what are the big lessons you've learned in terms of just communication in this environment

00:56:44.020 that is essential besides being just purely authentic?

00:56:48.560 You talked about giving value a moment ago to your audience, which I love is value.

00:56:54.620 Time is value.

00:56:55.880 Insight is value.

00:56:57.280 Respect is value.

00:56:58.820 Trust.

00:56:59.540 How do you define that value?

00:57:01.380 Yes.

00:57:02.360 All of the above.

00:57:03.100 All of it.

00:57:04.460 All of it.

00:57:05.400 I can give them insight because I've done this work.

00:57:08.380 Um, not to knock other people who do what I do, who do something in the same space, but

00:57:13.440 I just have a different perspective because, um, I've worked in campaigns.

00:57:17.400 I know what it means to try to get, uh, someone elected.

00:57:20.760 I know what it means to lose.

00:57:21.920 I know what it means to win.

00:57:24.820 Uh, but, uh, I think respecting the audience is something that I, uh, is I take very seriously.

00:57:34.040 I take it very seriously.

00:57:35.380 And I think part of what I do too, is I can be a mirror for people's feelings.

00:57:39.880 There's a lot of people, I think people are more isolated than they have been in the past.

00:57:45.100 And I think it's meaning, at least from the comments I ever see, which by the way, I read

00:57:50.440 a lot of them, uh, people, people appreciate that I can be expressive whether I'm mad.

00:57:58.800 I, I, I cry, laugh, uh, you know, letting people know that how they're feeling is like not insane.

00:58:08.900 But, um, but I think I have a deep respect and it's, it's a weird thing to have a relationship

00:58:15.420 with this idea of like an audience, but that's what I really think it is, is I have a,

00:58:21.720 I have a, I have a deep connection.

00:58:25.260 Um, I imagine you feel the same way about having a constituency, you know, California

00:58:29.580 and you represent a lot of people and you have to look out for them.

00:58:34.980 You have to lead.

00:58:36.060 And it's just, it's no different than, than what I do, um, where I have a constituency.

00:58:41.540 Um, I might, it says 1.1 million subscribers, but really that's a, that's a lagging indicator

00:58:48.080 around giving any given month, nine to nine, nine to 10 million people watch me every month.

00:58:54.700 Amazing.

00:58:55.400 Um, and so I have, uh, I have a deep humility around that.

00:59:02.300 And I also have a deep, I feel a deep responsibility, um, for, for making sure the audience

00:59:10.960 gets, um, gets what they need.

00:59:15.600 And you focus again, you said it, and I thought it interesting.

00:59:19.260 I want to go back to it.

00:59:20.800 This notion of consistency, constancy, this notion of just, you know, could, you know,

00:59:25.480 that they can count on you.

00:59:26.560 You're going to constantly, you know, we talk about iteration, et cetera, versus just going

00:59:32.340 viral, just, you know, trying to just full throttle to get a clip to fly around the world.

00:59:37.340 One off one and done this notion of a sustainable.

00:59:40.960 A sustainable mindset versus perhaps situational in terms of how you do content.

00:59:45.620 Uh, is that, is that what you think is a differentiator as well?

00:59:49.320 It's starting to be one.

00:59:51.340 Uh, so I, for those who don't know YouTube, uh, the title and the thumbnail are so important.

01:00:00.120 And, and, and, you know, as, as a content creator yourself, it's, uh, how you package content

01:00:06.560 can deeply affect how it gets seen and how it is, if it is seen at all.

01:00:12.540 Uh, but something that I'm trying to do now, this is, I actually wrote a piece on this and,

01:00:20.020 um, I actually, I did a video about how, again, that's respect to the audience.

01:00:23.940 And I think liberal YouTube suffers from a branding problem because if you look at content on the

01:00:37.720 right, if you look at Candace Owens' content, um, Tim Poole, Ben Shapiro, name any name, Tucker,

01:00:48.720 the way it's packaged is very, uh, approachable.

01:00:54.400 Um, and it's content that you wouldn't be embarrassed to share.

01:01:00.480 Um, content on the left, I don't know how this happened, is packaged pretty insanely.

01:01:09.640 It's insane.

01:01:11.500 And I get it because we are in an intention economy, but I, I guess two months ago, I, I, I,

01:01:20.980 again, I had an idea that it's not even an idea.

01:01:26.160 My audience a lot, cause I was doing insane titles and, and, uh, thumbnails insane.

01:01:32.060 Like, I'm not even going to give an example, but just insane.

01:01:34.400 I was embarrassed by it, but it worked.

01:01:36.000 Okay.

01:01:36.280 No, you have to give an example.

01:01:37.200 No, I actually don't even have a good example.

01:01:39.080 It's just like, it's just like, it's, it's, it's like white house panics or like Trump,

01:01:44.620 you know, Trump panics or Trump suffers.

01:01:49.240 Immediately clickbait.

01:01:50.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:51.440 Is Trump panicking?

01:01:52.340 No.

01:01:53.160 So, but people click in.

01:01:55.300 Yeah.

01:01:55.620 And so people, and my, the thing I told myself was like, as long as people are clicking in

01:02:00.200 and I'm giving, like, I don't, the content is not insane itself.

01:02:04.880 It's just the packaging is.

01:02:06.260 This is like the media, the headlines in the article.

01:02:08.520 Yes.

01:02:08.820 It's completely different.

01:02:09.720 Yes.

01:02:10.080 A lot of people don't read past the headline.

01:02:11.700 That's the problem.

01:02:12.400 Yes.

01:02:12.760 So, so my, my audience would very often be like, you know, on the, on the really bad

01:02:18.460 clickbait ones, they'd be like, Keith, you don't have to do this.

01:02:21.020 You don't have to do it.

01:02:22.420 You don't like, like we are going to watch either way.

01:02:26.560 So I was like, okay, all right.

01:02:29.320 In December, which is the worst time ever to change something was for what I understand.

01:02:33.140 And I decided to try to do things a little differently.

01:02:36.740 Now I'm still trying to find the balance of like titling and thumbnails.

01:02:42.200 I think if you look at my page, it's, uh, there's, there's a great, uh, there is just

01:02:47.320 like, I really am just in, in, uh, in like a let's find out mode, but, but I was like,

01:02:54.740 all right, I'm going to trust the audience.

01:02:56.740 I'm going to trust that they're going to be there.

01:02:58.060 And even if views dip momentarily, I think I'm actually making a long-term investment

01:03:04.680 in credibility and again, respect for the audience.

01:03:09.160 And I, and I was like, you know, I'm just going to trust the fact that I'm making something

01:03:15.480 valuable for people.

01:03:17.880 And there were, they will now views have dipped slightly, but I actually think it's worth it

01:03:24.700 because I want someone to be able to share my video to someone that might not even be

01:03:30.220 politically engaged.

01:03:32.220 But I do think the way it was packaged before, it was very limiting.

01:03:35.180 And though maybe the people who are on YouTube would be interested in clicking who are already

01:03:40.500 in this niche, uh, it might have a adverse effect in getting people to actually want to

01:03:47.480 watch it.

01:03:47.940 If that's something anyone would want to share.

01:03:50.180 And I got to say too, that my audience has gotten about 30% younger since I made the

01:03:56.520 switch, which is something I was not anticipating.

01:04:00.020 And my audience dipped about 4 million when I switched over and it's right back up to where

01:04:05.300 it used to be.

01:04:05.860 But now I have a younger audience, um, who also, cause I brought them in on this.

01:04:11.180 Cause again, like, this is a relationship.

01:04:13.320 So I told them, I said, Hey, I'm trying this thing.

01:04:16.160 Let's you, you guys said it.

01:04:17.780 Like I'm trying it.

01:04:19.480 Right.

01:04:20.300 And now they actually, they, they, um, they appreciate that I have listened to them and

01:04:27.320 that we're, you know, and again, like, I'm not going to get it right every time.

01:04:29.880 I still need people to click, but I think there's, I'm trying to figure out the way to do it or

01:04:34.200 it's not, it's not disrespectful to them.

01:04:38.000 Um, and it's also not like making me and like left leaning politics look insane.

01:04:46.800 It's interesting.

01:04:47.660 You, you opened up with Candace Owen, mentioning Ben and we had on, um, a week ago on our podcast.

01:04:54.800 How was that?

01:04:55.600 Which I thought it was, I mean, I, I enjoyed it.

01:04:57.740 I mean, I enjoyed spending time with them.

01:04:59.220 I, and I enjoyed the civil conversation.

01:05:01.760 I, you know, this was not, we're not, I'm not trying to compete with cable, uh, and

01:05:06.300 getting to screaming matches, et cetera.

01:05:07.900 And that, that was all point and the intention of this podcast.

01:05:11.060 I appreciate it.

01:05:12.520 And by the way, and I appreciate you saying that because not everyone appreciates having

01:05:15.840 folks like that on.

01:05:17.180 Like, well, we have to, we have to, my mom is the complete opposite than me.

01:05:25.000 Um, Trump would love if I stopped talking to her, he would love that because that would

01:05:31.300 mean that we're more easily, more divided, the more easy to conquer.

01:05:36.080 Um, so we have to have conversations.

01:05:38.560 What I loved about that conversation was that it really showed that like in, in like the

01:05:44.700 minutia, it's just slight differences.

01:05:47.080 Now, Ben Shapiro is a normal, normal conservative.

01:05:50.600 I think he has to, he has like a needle, he has to thread and like trying to appeal to

01:05:54.960 insane people.

01:05:55.920 But I think like he's more gettable than, you know, than like Laura Loomer, you know?

01:06:04.160 Yeah.

01:06:04.700 For full disclosure, we were talking about her.

01:06:07.400 I don't know why, except that she, uh, protested here, uh, many years ago and I, I still don't

01:06:13.320 know who the hell she is, but, uh, she apparently is somewhat important.

01:06:16.660 I'm, I'm, I've seen her name.

01:06:17.880 Uh, I think Trump pays a little too much attention to her, but, uh, I'm not sure it's

01:06:22.040 going well for Trump.

01:06:23.440 So you mentioned, but you mentioned Owens, you mentioned Ben and, and these folks as

01:06:27.500 being content that is, appears more normal or shareable.

01:06:31.420 What do you mean by that versus the left, which leans in?

01:06:35.220 I mean, I can be very specific.

01:06:36.620 Like it's title case, which means, you know, there's no, like, there's no like caps words.

01:06:43.040 It's, it's like, it's very, it's very, um, conversational, conversationally packaged.

01:06:48.340 It's usually their faces on it.

01:06:51.460 Um, whereas on the left, it's like, uh, you know, Trump panics and caps lock and, you know,

01:07:00.540 or Trump suffers massive, you know, term ending moment for Trump, you know, so many term ending

01:07:07.460 moments for Trump on the left that, you know, if it ends the term shouldn't it, so, uh, so

01:07:14.980 that's part of the problem now, like for what I'm doing, like, I still have to, I still have

01:07:19.780 to fit within the niche.

01:07:20.740 People have to know that like, this is content that's somewhat related to the content I already

01:07:25.620 like.

01:07:26.820 Um, but eventually, hopefully it can like, um, you know, we, the, the content I'm making

01:07:32.620 can be very, um, just very, uh, attainable.

01:07:37.940 Why do you think, I mean, is it, and I'm, I'm mining this because I'm trying to make all

01:07:42.760 of us are trying to understand.

01:07:43.900 I've mentioned asymmetry.

01:07:45.300 At least I used the word asymmetry a moment ago, this, this sense, and I think it's beginning

01:07:49.840 to change and you're a big part of that change.

01:07:51.440 Why I'm very grateful you took the time to be on the podcast is to talk about why the

01:07:56.160 right has been so successful, uh, in flooding the zone.

01:07:59.540 We could talk about obviously Fox with 15 of the top 16 or whatever the number is, uh,

01:08:03.840 the most viewed and watched cable shows, they dominate in that space.

01:08:07.620 Obviously this last election talked about all this sort of manosphere and these bro podcasters

01:08:12.800 that all tended to lean libertarian to right with Trump and the MAGA movement, uh, they'll

01:08:17.680 frame a little bit now and how, how we've not necessarily mined that space as well or, um,

01:08:23.440 as effectively as the Republicans have.

01:08:25.820 Do you, you must've dove deep.

01:08:28.620 I mean, obviously from a competitive perspective, what's your overview or sense of where we've

01:08:33.600 been, where we are, and let's talk about where you think we're going.

01:08:38.100 I'm going to say something pretty controversial, I think.

01:08:40.160 Bring it on, man.

01:08:40.840 But, uh, do you remember the Epstein, do you remember the Epstein binder moment at the

01:08:46.620 White House?

01:08:47.640 Which, uh, where they brought in all the influencers, all the right wing influencers and they held

01:08:53.000 up the binders and like, we had the Epstein files.

01:08:54.860 Remember that moment?

01:08:55.820 Yep.

01:08:56.320 I think the left now who wasn't there?

01:09:00.840 Candace Owens, Megyn Kelly, Ben Shapiro.

01:09:03.560 I think the left and Democrats are very good at creating influencers who would go to that

01:09:12.680 event.

01:09:12.940 If Joe Biden had put it up, I don't think we're really good at producing the Megyn Kellys, the

01:09:22.680 Candace Owens.

01:09:23.400 And we're not, we don't really allow anyone to step out and critique the party.

01:09:31.380 That we're not there, that you believe their success is their willingness to sort of break

01:09:38.680 with that base.

01:09:41.260 Who does that on the left?

01:09:43.260 If you do, boy, we're going to come after you.

01:09:46.320 Uh, I have.

01:09:47.240 Yeah, I get that.

01:09:48.360 Uh, intimately appreciate that.

01:09:50.400 Both of us in that respect.

01:09:51.660 So it's a problem.

01:09:54.580 And we, and I think it makes the party stronger to have people to be like, yo.

01:09:58.280 Talk to me about, I mean, Democrats sort of running a little bit more scared in terms

01:10:04.420 of their punditry and not necessarily wanting to talk out of school.

01:10:07.440 Um, and obviously it's interesting.

01:10:08.840 You bring up Kelly, whose numbers have gone through the roof.

01:10:11.940 You've seen her ascendancy in the last couple of years in particular, uh, Owens and others

01:10:16.840 that have been willing, even Tucker, et cetera.

01:10:18.520 I mean, there's a whole universe that's sort of, you know, fighting itself right now, which

01:10:22.100 is why it was interesting just having been on in that respect.

01:10:24.680 But what is it about the left?

01:10:26.240 What is it about some of the left pundits, um, and creators and producers, uh, that were

01:10:32.060 unwilling or hesitant to do that?

01:10:33.980 I don't know.

01:10:36.220 I don't know what it is, uh, but I refuse that one thing about me is I'm not a joiner.

01:10:42.900 I'm not a joiner.

01:10:43.960 So I, I just, I just want to say what I think and what I feel.

01:10:48.500 I also want to reflect back what the audience is thinking and feeling.

01:10:52.080 So I'm lucky in that I've created an audience too.

01:10:54.660 That's a little anti-establishment.

01:10:56.920 Uh, I'm not sure if that's the case.

01:10:59.540 I think maybe audience capture is a thing too.

01:11:02.780 Uh, I, I don't, I don't know, but it also could be like, um, I just think there's a culture.

01:11:12.480 I think, I think it's just a culture thing where like conservatives are, I kind of have

01:11:18.980 always had this like anti-establishment string in the party, right?

01:11:25.860 Like the tea party and, uh, and I don't know on the left, it's, it's like, if you don't

01:11:32.160 say the right thing or if you're not supporting the right person or whatever, then you're the

01:11:40.740 enemy.

01:11:40.960 And, uh, I don't know if that means that that creates a culture and where like we have creators

01:11:49.580 and media personalities who feel like they much, they don't want to be under, I don't,

01:11:57.240 I actually don't.

01:11:57.920 I'm interested to hear what you think.

01:11:59.740 No, I mean, I, it's, uh, you've talked about this.

01:12:03.000 I know you were on with Andy too, it went on his podcast talking about this, this being

01:12:07.100 little less judgmental.

01:12:08.440 Uh, is that a broader narrative for a party?

01:12:11.780 I mean, or is that even from the perspective of being a pundit?

01:12:14.780 I don't know, man.

01:12:15.480 Like I gotta say, like, I know you're friends with James and Crockett, but like, uh, I have

01:12:20.740 said, like, it's turned into like, and I don't want to make this all about that, but it's a,

01:12:25.680 it's, I think it's a good example and it doesn't bother me, but it's just a good example that

01:12:29.900 I, I was just basically saying, I think, I think she's going to have a hard time winning

01:12:36.960 a general election.

01:12:38.780 And I said, and there was a clip that went viral that said that she doesn't need MAGA

01:12:44.680 supporters or she doesn't need Trump supporters to win Texas.

01:12:47.660 And I, and I literally just said, I think you do.

01:12:52.100 And it was like, that was like, people outraged, outraged.

01:12:57.460 It's just about getting our base out.

01:12:59.640 Yeah.

01:13:00.320 It's about getting more people that are, I don't, I don't, I know, I know the right has

01:13:04.240 this too on other things.

01:13:05.340 So it's not like, it's, it's not like the left, it's just the left.

01:13:08.720 But I don't think it, I, I, I think a strong party allows there to be multiple ideas at

01:13:18.500 once and, uh, I don't know what it is about some creators on the left who feel the need

01:13:32.660 to attack rather than just fight for their own ideas, you know?

01:13:37.580 So, so I don't know.

01:13:39.120 I don't know.

01:13:39.640 I don't know why there's a lot of conformity on the left, but I believe there is.

01:13:45.180 If you were running DNC's operation right now, social media, I mean, do you just break

01:13:50.380 it down, start all over?

01:13:51.760 Is it, is it digital first?

01:13:53.180 What's your, I mean, do you have any diagnosis or even thought about it?

01:13:56.140 I have one idea.

01:13:57.080 What is it?

01:13:57.480 One, and I've told them this, they should do it.

01:13:59.440 There's all this content being created on the left.

01:14:01.860 Yeah.

01:14:02.700 Midas Touch, Adam Mockler, uh, Brian Tyler Cohen, David Packman.

01:14:06.780 That's just on YouTube and there's all these TikTok or whatever.

01:14:11.160 Why do we always clip out the bad stuff the right says?

01:14:16.360 And like fact post news, is that what they're called?

01:14:19.320 The DNC's clipping account?

01:14:21.320 Yeah.

01:14:21.740 They only clip out the bad stuff.

01:14:24.740 Why are you only promoting bad things Republicans are saying?

01:14:28.080 It's interesting.

01:14:28.560 Why aren't you, why aren't you, why aren't you lifting up the clips of me critiquing the

01:14:35.780 Republican party rather than just, why aren't you clipping out Adam Mockler's, whatever?

01:14:43.940 I don't, I think that is like the smallest thing we could change is there's all this free

01:14:48.280 content being created.

01:14:49.320 And one of the most useful things someone on the left could do is aggregating it and like

01:14:56.320 finding moments that could go viral.

01:15:00.620 What do you make of TikTok in this sale?

01:15:03.840 I don't really care.

01:15:05.260 I just don't care.

01:15:06.380 And you don't care personally?

01:15:07.540 I thought TikTok-

01:15:07.700 You don't care as a creator?

01:15:09.020 Well, I thought TikTok-

01:15:10.260 You don't care for democracy?

01:15:11.100 What do you-

01:15:11.400 I think TikTok should have been, I think it was insane that China owned TikTok.

01:15:16.520 You thought we should have shut it down.

01:15:18.740 Yeah.

01:15:18.900 I think it was insane that China owned TikTok.

01:15:22.480 So, so I, I, I agreed with TikTok not being owned by China.

01:15:29.400 Now, I don't know why, why us saying TikTok can't be owned by China turned into Trump owning

01:15:36.380 it somehow.

01:15:37.160 I don't know how that happened.

01:15:38.980 I think that was bad.

01:15:40.980 I think probably it would have been better to have left it alone maybe.

01:15:46.520 than what's happened now.

01:15:48.680 But, I mean, I don't know though, because doesn't Elon Musk own X?

01:15:55.160 Yes.

01:15:55.360 You're more popular than ever on his platform.

01:15:59.580 Yeah.

01:16:00.080 So is this going to be a net, I don't know.

01:16:01.780 Is it going to be a net negative?

01:16:03.220 I don't know.

01:16:04.440 Yeah.

01:16:04.600 I thought it interesting.

01:16:05.300 A lot of people, when he bought it, decided to pull off the platform.

01:16:09.200 Yeah.

01:16:09.840 Yeah.

01:16:10.200 I was kind of team that at first.

01:16:12.060 Were you at first?

01:16:12.600 Yeah, at first.

01:16:13.340 And going to Blue Sky?

01:16:14.300 Yeah, but Blue Sky is just not.

01:16:17.100 Are you on True Social?

01:16:18.860 No, I heard you are.

01:16:20.120 I was the first one to do it.

01:16:21.360 Yeah.

01:16:21.520 It was a lot of fun.

01:16:22.060 That's very funny.

01:16:22.760 Well, I was able to get through.

01:16:23.680 It was actually worked out.

01:16:25.440 I went on their platform to call them out on the red state murder problem and why eight

01:16:29.120 of the top 10 murder states are red states.

01:16:31.080 And I asked a simple question to the audience.

01:16:32.740 What are the policies that are leading to such carnage?

01:16:36.240 And the folks on the right were outraged.

01:16:38.400 And Fox replayed it about 55 times.

01:16:40.540 Amazing.

01:16:40.980 Made the point for me and finally broke through something that I've been screaming and yelling

01:16:45.400 at, had press conferences on.

01:16:47.040 No one cared.

01:16:47.800 So you've got to meet people where you are, where they are.

01:16:49.980 That's why you've got to go on Fox.

01:16:51.040 You've got to meet people you disagree with.

01:16:52.720 You've got to get in the arena.

01:16:54.180 That's my humble perspective.

01:16:55.340 And if we start to sort of self-censor or sort of walk away, it doesn't make them go

01:17:00.700 away.

01:17:01.660 So I just think we've got to, you know, it's a battle for ideas, but it is a battle.

01:17:05.420 And you said it a moment ago for attention and how, what does that mean to you?

01:17:11.060 I mean, is that, is that, is that a negative?

01:17:14.880 Is that a positive?

01:17:16.080 Is that an opportunity?

01:17:17.400 Is it a liability?

01:17:18.900 This notion of, again, clickbait, this notion of the, there's sort of all caps, this notion

01:17:24.740 of attention.

01:17:26.200 What is it?

01:17:27.000 I mean, how does it, how do you unpack that?

01:17:29.180 Well, I think it's per platform.

01:17:31.540 So I think, I think on YouTube, for instance, I'm trying to create something that is long

01:17:39.340 lasting and obviously something that is sustainable.

01:17:41.500 So that's different.

01:17:43.320 But if, but I kind of feel like if, I don't know what you would compare YouTube to, but

01:17:50.480 I do think on X and threads to a lesser extent is where the day-to-day war of politics happens.

01:17:57.040 And I actually think we're at war.

01:17:59.520 I mean, it's not, it's not a physical war.

01:18:02.280 I think it's an information war.

01:18:03.580 And so I'm a little bit more like, I'm going to fight with every fucking weapon we have.

01:18:10.580 Amen, man.

01:18:11.140 Every weapon we have.

01:18:12.560 Thank you.

01:18:13.180 And I don't care if it, if it's like, if it makes someone a little upset that whatever

01:18:21.460 it is I'm saying, but we're at war, we're at war.

01:18:24.600 And so it's important no matter what you're saying, that it gets seen because if it's

01:18:29.640 not seen, then who cares?

01:18:33.680 But I, I don't, but, but I think on YouTube, it's a little different.

01:18:37.340 It's a little different because I want, because it's, it's, it's very personally, you know,

01:18:41.800 people have me on their television.

01:18:45.260 So, so I think that's, that's more, I think YouTube is much more persuadable, whereas

01:18:53.100 X Twitter is where you're never going to persuade, but you're actually at, you're actually fighting

01:19:00.280 the battle each day for the narrative.

01:19:02.300 So on that, and it's a, it's a good segue and it sort of, you know, allows us to end

01:19:06.840 as we began to, and I appreciated you opening up just as an empath and this notion that,

01:19:13.240 you know, a lot of folks and you've reflected in your comments today about your audience

01:19:18.360 and knowing your audience and they, that you're a mirror, uh, you said of, of their consistent

01:19:23.260 thoughts and how they're feeling and they can reflect and connect with you, uh, in, in

01:19:27.680 that respect.

01:19:28.220 And, and that's, that's your authenticity and, and, and, and being an empath is, is, is

01:19:33.480 power, uh, that's strength from my humble perspective.

01:19:36.620 But what in terms of this notion of differentiation of persuasion, it's, you know, there'll be a

01:19:42.320 world where Trump is not on the ballot.

01:19:45.260 Um, I know Trump has the desire to see to it that that world, you know, that, that timeline

01:19:49.640 is extended, but the reality is his time of life, if not a state of mind, uh, will determine

01:19:55.480 that.

01:19:55.760 And, and we'll be in a point where now we're not just trying to sort of fight the good

01:20:00.100 fight and the civil war, as you describe it in terms of the war of ideas and attention,

01:20:03.860 but we do need to start persuading people.

01:20:06.900 Uh, we need to be in the vernacular as you pray every morning, the repairs of the breach,

01:20:12.560 um, Isaiah, uh, as we sort of knit back trust and truth, uh, relationships and deal with that

01:20:19.940 isolation, which you acknowledged earlier in your comments.

01:20:22.780 Uh, how do we start to shift or is this the moment where we can shift or are you doing that

01:20:28.820 with your shift, even in December to becoming more persuadable and moving into a different

01:20:35.320 narrative as opposed to just being in opposition to, but being a champion for something bigger

01:20:42.820 and better?

01:20:44.560 I don't, I mean, I don't, I mean, my, as I said, my mom is very conservative and I've

01:20:49.260 not been able to persuade her.

01:20:51.600 She'd still vote for Trump today.

01:20:53.360 Uh, I think there had been moments where she doesn't like, you know, the Epstein stuff.

01:20:59.040 She doesn't understand.

01:20:59.860 And it's, that's like a, she's like, like, it bothers her.

01:21:03.700 And I think the shooting, the murder, she did, she didn't, she didn't like, I think there's

01:21:09.200 these moments that wake people up, but, uh, I don't know if I don't, I don't know.

01:21:18.200 Here's the thing.

01:21:18.840 I'm not manipulative.

01:21:19.860 I'm not trying to like trick someone.

01:21:23.840 I'm just going to be me.

01:21:25.100 I'm going to talk about the things that I think are important.

01:21:27.200 I'm going to talk to you about why I think they're important.

01:21:30.880 And if, and I'm also not like giving my list of like charts and figures and well, actually

01:21:39.560 39%, I know you did that a lot.

01:21:41.520 Ben Shapiro was like, well, actually 35%.

01:21:43.500 I don't think that squirm in my seat.

01:21:47.240 Yes.

01:21:47.500 I'm well aware.

01:21:48.620 Don't, I don't.

01:21:49.660 Facts and figures.

01:21:50.440 I don't.

01:21:50.900 You're a storyteller.

01:21:51.880 I'm a storyteller.

01:21:52.600 I'm a feelings.

01:21:53.580 Yeah.

01:21:53.780 Yep.

01:21:54.100 That's not, I mean, that's what persuades.

01:21:55.560 And so I'm just going to keep doing that.

01:21:58.600 And I have got, I have received comments where the people, there are a lot of people who

01:22:02.940 are not conservative, but they're also not like, you know, just voting the party line

01:22:11.440 every day.

01:22:12.500 So I don't know.

01:22:14.840 Maybe there's persuasion in that, but I think just being myself and critiquing things, whether

01:22:21.340 it be the Democrats, like, I don't know how you feel about Chuck Schumer or his effectiveness

01:22:27.560 or listen.

01:22:30.520 You're not a fan.

01:22:33.260 I don't think many people are.

01:22:35.000 And I, let me just say this.

01:22:36.900 I think, I think establishment Democrats are going to be incredibly surprised this primary

01:22:44.660 season and in the, and in the general election, how pissed off people are.

01:22:51.540 I, I, I, I, I am, I am so mad.

01:22:56.040 I am mad.

01:22:57.360 Like we, like they ran, they basically ran on 10 years of Trump bad.

01:23:03.660 Okay.

01:23:04.100 Trump, Trump more powerful than ever.

01:23:06.360 How's that worked out?

01:23:07.400 And now, and I, and, and like, there's some Democrats that voted for this, uh, ice funding

01:23:16.420 bill last week.

01:23:17.640 And then, and now they're like, well, actually, I guess that really mean to, I get, oh, well,

01:23:22.100 yeah, I guess that was bad.

01:23:23.460 I guess that was bad.

01:23:24.340 Uh, yeah.

01:23:24.820 You think that was maybe not something you should have funded when Renee good.

01:23:28.020 Thank you.

01:23:28.560 Was executed on the street.

01:23:29.980 Thank you.

01:23:30.960 Absolutely.

01:23:31.400 Like, that's my thing is like, I think like I, we just want people who are going to fight

01:23:37.380 who are going to fight.

01:23:40.400 I don't know what that looks like when a Democrat fights.

01:23:44.640 We don't see it.

01:23:45.840 We just don't see it.

01:23:47.580 You're fighting your own way, which I appreciate, but like, where were, where were the elected

01:23:54.440 Democrats in Minneapolis fighting?

01:24:00.120 Every single presidential hopeful should have been, been there in my opinion.

01:24:04.460 Yeah.

01:24:05.160 Should have been there.

01:24:06.140 Yeah.

01:24:06.820 On the street.

01:24:08.120 That's where the fight is.

01:24:09.380 That's where the war is.

01:24:11.920 And, uh, so people are going to ride in and say that they're always against this.

01:24:16.660 Well, okay.

01:24:17.560 I think people are going to, I don't know.

01:24:19.480 I'm just, I'm just, I am interested to see, um, who steps up because, uh, people are

01:24:28.380 literally dying, literally dying.

01:24:31.080 And Chuck Schumer's sending tweets.

01:24:36.520 We're going to have a government shutdown this Friday.

01:24:38.600 I hope so.

01:24:39.960 Over this issue.

01:24:41.200 Yes.

01:24:42.460 DHS funding.

01:24:43.400 I, I don't know what else, what else can we do?

01:24:46.820 Uh, people are talking about, um, uh, national, like a strike, not being very specific about

01:24:55.740 what we do and don't buy.

01:24:59.440 That sounds interesting to me.

01:25:00.860 It has to be sustained and has to make not only them uncomfortable, but it's going to

01:25:05.900 be making us uncomfortable, but something has to change.

01:25:09.800 I think, uh, Greg Bovino being sent back to wherever the hell he's from.

01:25:17.380 Sadly, California.

01:25:18.120 Yeah.

01:25:18.480 It's like, I don't think that's actually changing anything.

01:25:24.140 Uh, not for us.

01:25:25.400 Certainly.

01:25:26.100 No.

01:25:26.320 He's a well-known figure.

01:25:27.620 You talk about being on the streets of Minneapolis.

01:25:30.020 I was still on the streets of California because we're still fighting this fight every single

01:25:33.420 day, just not generating headlines.

01:25:35.300 And remember, future happened here first in July, in June, when they federalized 4,000

01:25:40.660 national guard and we sent out 700 active duty Marines.

01:25:44.560 And remember, Bovino's first operations were here, including when we kicked off Proposition

01:25:50.700 50 at the Democracy Center in Little Tokyo.

01:25:53.360 That's right.

01:25:53.860 And Bovino and his masked men were there as we kicked off the campaign.

01:26:00.020 And I told everybody, wake up, pay attention, watch this guy, watch this guy.

01:26:05.300 Those same BORTAC teams that he was sending out, COS planes with their Apache, whatever

01:26:10.640 the hell it is, were out there on election day doing voter suppression with Proposition

01:26:15.580 50.

01:26:15.940 That is a preview of things to come.

01:26:18.380 It is code red in this country.

01:26:20.280 So I appreciate what you're saying in that respect.

01:26:22.580 But I also appreciate, because I want to follow up as we began.

01:26:26.320 I want to close as we began.

01:26:28.440 You know, you said something about, you know, just this humanity that was expressed in those

01:26:33.080 National Guard men and women that were there for the right reasons, at least expressing

01:26:36.300 their humanity and compassion and connection to the community.

01:26:39.860 You have to respect, even if you don't some of the electeds, which I appreciate your point,

01:26:45.060 but you have to be inspired by the people of Minneapolis and people across the country.

01:26:49.920 Yes.

01:26:50.620 In Chicago.

01:26:51.740 Do the thing, give me hope.

01:26:52.620 In D.C. and in California, all across, right?

01:26:56.400 I mean, that's got to give you, that's got to distill a sense of well-being.

01:26:59.660 Here's what I want to end with, and I know we're wrapping up, is that I think there are

01:27:06.700 some people who are waiting for the right leader to rise up.

01:27:09.740 Are you into the guy or gal on the white horse, or is it different?

01:27:12.740 No, no, no, no, no.

01:27:13.580 It's the person in the mirror, right?

01:27:14.500 Here's how this is going to work.

01:27:15.580 Thank you.

01:27:16.100 Keep going.

01:27:16.440 It is the people, the people lead, the people lead, and we will decide who we want to lead

01:27:24.480 us, but that is from us leading them to power.

01:27:28.320 Love that.

01:27:30.520 Could not agree with you more.

01:27:31.780 I think this obsession with that guy or gal, as I suggest, on the white horse to come save

01:27:35.660 the day is the biggest mistake we make.

01:27:37.900 Minneapolis saved itself.

01:27:39.280 Yes, yes.

01:27:40.380 Not that it's over, but they're saving itself.

01:27:42.400 And I think Waltz has done an admirable job.

01:27:44.580 The mayor has done an admirable job.

01:27:46.060 And they're my friends.

01:27:47.340 But through the support of the people, yeah.

01:27:48.920 Yeah, through the support.

01:27:49.700 Absolutely.

01:27:50.500 And this is the one, this uprising.

01:27:54.040 And we didn't know it.

01:27:55.080 This time last year, it was pretty quiet out there.

01:28:00.000 Up until, I mean, frankly, until the middle of last year, I thought, boy, we are at peril

01:28:06.480 here.

01:28:07.100 And the No Kings rallies, first one, people showed up.

01:28:10.260 Next one, next level.

01:28:11.620 Number of people showed up.

01:28:12.920 People showed up all across this country.

01:28:15.180 And voting booths that got a lot of attention, a lot that didn't get any attention.

01:28:19.880 I'll give you an example.

01:28:21.080 How many state assembly and state senate races we won in states all across this country.

01:28:27.260 That, to me, was the most significant outcome.

01:28:30.580 Yes, Prop 50 was big.

01:28:32.080 Virginia was big.

01:28:32.880 New Jersey was big.

01:28:33.980 Obviously, the change that inspired a lot of people in New York was big.

01:28:38.080 But also, the number of wins, dozens and dozens and dozens of races in state houses across

01:28:44.820 the country, in state legislators that flipped hands, flipped the party, the Democratic Party.

01:28:49.980 That's reflected in people's advocacy.

01:28:52.840 That's reflected not in the headlines.

01:28:54.460 That's reflected in the hard work, the grit of people, the resilience of people showing

01:28:58.680 up in those communities that are not on Rachel Maddow every night, or Monday nights being

01:29:04.100 highlighted, or even on our shows as it relates to my podcast or your nightly shows.

01:29:08.120 So I just hope people understand their power and understand how inspiring that power is.

01:29:15.360 Because people just need to see that they're not alone.

01:29:18.200 And all of a sudden, it wakes up their own immune system.

01:29:20.440 And they realize, wait, I can do this too.

01:29:22.480 And that's the crescendo.

01:29:25.740 That's what we need.

01:29:26.660 And so I appreciate, look, I appreciate what you're doing every single day, grinding.

01:29:30.600 I appreciate you don't have goals, so I call it a BS on that.

01:29:33.800 I appreciate the spiritual qualities you bring to your work, which I think is powerful.

01:29:38.440 And I think that's beautiful, man.

01:29:40.000 I think we should talk about it more, too.

01:29:41.780 I just was going to say that.

01:29:43.020 Democrats need to talk about it more.

01:29:43.880 Thank you.

01:29:44.360 Yes.

01:29:44.880 The fact that you pray, and I love that.

01:29:46.680 Now, I talk about Father Cause, but as he said, as you pray, move your feet.

01:29:50.220 It's faith and works.

01:29:51.700 Yes.

01:29:52.480 And I think that's the difference, not just about holding hands and having a candlelight

01:29:55.600 vigil.

01:29:56.060 It's about getting out of there and making things so manifesting ideals.

01:30:00.720 It's the notion that we have agency and we can shape the future.

01:30:04.780 And you've developed, obviously, that capacity in your own individual work.

01:30:10.600 And I applaud you, man.

01:30:11.780 It's just an incredible journey you've been on.

01:30:13.340 I appreciate your openness.

01:30:14.480 I appreciate your willingness to come all the way to Sacramento.

01:30:17.920 Sacramento, baby.

01:30:18.820 It's cold.

01:30:20.140 California.

01:30:20.800 It's cold.

01:30:21.200 It's not all, you know, sunshine and what I mean.

01:30:24.820 No.

01:30:25.200 But you know what?

01:30:25.780 It's not all life.

01:30:26.380 You've got the American River.

01:30:28.160 Go West, young man.

01:30:29.340 Go West.

01:30:29.940 Horace Greeley, the spirit.

01:30:31.860 That frontier spirit.

01:30:33.680 That's alive and well here in Sacramento.

01:30:35.920 It's good to see you.

01:30:36.540 Thanks.

01:30:36.900 This is an iHeart Podcast.

01:30:43.520 Guaranteed human.

This is Gavin Newsom - January 30, 2026

And, This Is A Country In Crisis With Keith Edwards

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