This is Gavin Newsom - And, This Is Charlie Kirk

00:00:00.840 In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.

00:00:04.800 7,000 bodies out there, or more.

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00:00:10.580 It was my family's mystery.

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00:01:45.560 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

00:01:51.880 This episode, Lizzo opens up like never before

00:01:55.100 about self-love, transformation,

00:01:57.860 and finding real peace

00:01:59.360 in a world that constantly tries to define you.

00:02:02.660 It's not me anymore.

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00:02:06.560 And that disconnect is depressing.

00:02:09.920 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

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00:02:15.520 on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:02:23.920 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:02:27.340 And this is Charlie Kirk.

00:02:31.820 By the way, what brings you California,

00:02:33.640 your favorite state?

00:02:34.760 It is my favorite state in the union.

00:02:38.240 You're doing such a great job here, by the way.

00:02:39.780 Um, no, I'm honored to be on the show.

00:02:42.520 Thank you.

00:02:43.080 You were just down at USC?

00:02:44.560 I was at USC yesterday,

00:02:45.900 drew a big crowd.

00:02:46.960 By the way, I knew you were at USC early

00:02:49.260 because my niece, who's graduating-

00:02:52.160 She was the one with the MAGA hat on.

00:02:53.300 She was, by the way, I do have to watch.

00:02:55.800 But she was down there and she was like,

00:02:57.380 she said-

00:02:57.900 You never know.

00:02:58.340 These kids are going to the right.

00:02:59.480 I'm aware.

00:03:00.340 She said, this crowd's crazy.

00:03:02.300 He said, she said,

00:03:03.020 and the only reason she said,

00:03:04.500 she would have said it perhaps otherwise,

00:03:05.760 but she knew you were coming on.

00:03:07.400 The worst part though, Charlie,

00:03:08.540 no BS, true story.

00:03:10.440 Literally last night,

00:03:11.600 trying to put my son to bed.

00:03:12.980 He's like, no, dad.

00:03:14.280 I just, what time?

00:03:15.180 What time's Charlie going to be here?

00:03:16.500 What time?

00:03:17.180 And I'm like, dude, you're in school tomorrow.

00:03:18.740 He's 13.

00:03:19.540 He's like, no, no.

00:03:20.140 This morning, wakes up at six up.

00:03:22.240 Then he's like, I'm coming.

00:03:23.940 I'm like, he literally would not leave the house.

00:03:26.300 Did you let him take off school?

00:03:27.560 No, he didn't.

00:03:28.100 Of course not.

00:03:28.540 He's not here for a good reason.

00:03:29.720 But the point is the point-

00:03:30.540 Come on, you canceled school for like two years.

00:03:31.780 Once one day.

00:03:32.740 The point is the point,

00:03:34.760 which is you are making a damn dent.

00:03:37.660 Thank you.

00:03:38.040 I'm kidding.

00:03:38.560 No, but I know.

00:03:39.500 And I, but I appreciate that.

00:03:40.580 I mean, it's the reason you're here

00:03:41.700 because I think people need to understand

00:03:43.220 your success, your influence,

00:03:45.900 what you've been up to

00:03:46.780 and the fact that you're on these college campus doors.

00:03:48.680 And to your point, man, you just open up.

00:03:51.200 I mean, you're like, ask me anything?

00:03:53.360 Anything.

00:03:54.320 Challenge me?

00:03:55.080 Challenge me, whatever.

00:03:55.900 When did this, when did this whole thing,

00:03:57.480 when did you start putting this together?

00:03:58.880 We, I've been at this for 13 years

00:04:00.660 and it's been a wild movement,

00:04:03.160 really accelerated once President Trump

00:04:04.960 kind of came on the scene.

00:04:06.760 Right around, I'd say 2021, we had a goal.

00:04:11.060 Could we move the youth vote 10 points over 10 years?

00:04:15.080 And it was literally you sat down

00:04:16.560 and put that numerical together.

00:04:17.840 Yeah.

00:04:17.960 Like, can we move it 10 points over 10 years-ish,

00:04:20.900 you know, approximate.

00:04:21.800 Because our whole hypothesis was,

00:04:24.520 and we, you know,

00:04:25.020 we did this alongside President Trump and his great team,

00:04:27.480 was that this demographic

00:04:29.080 is disproportionately to the Democrat side.

00:04:31.700 We believe Democrats were taking them for granted.

00:04:34.020 We think that your side had no message whatsoever

00:04:36.320 and an ideological monopoly.

00:04:38.360 We saw some of the fault lines there.

00:04:40.460 And to President Trump's credit,

00:04:42.120 he also harmonized with the strategy

00:04:44.140 by going on podcasting and using TikTok.

00:04:46.660 But yeah, I mean, we did it in four years,

00:04:48.740 not 10, large in part, thanks to you guys.

00:04:50.640 And we'll get to that.

00:04:52.020 And I sincerely get to that

00:04:53.300 because I want, you know, I want to stress test

00:04:55.120 some of those fault lines

00:04:56.560 as it relates to the reality of our party

00:04:58.220 and where we are today.

00:04:59.120 Yeah.

00:04:59.440 Vis-a-vis your ascendancy,

00:05:00.740 not just individually as an organization.

00:05:02.560 But where was that sort of moment for you?

00:05:04.920 Because it's interesting.

00:05:05.600 I mean, you're such a young guy.

00:05:06.800 So it's not like deep biography here.

00:05:08.720 It's not like 20 years in the wilderness,

00:05:10.560 writing his first book,

00:05:11.980 getting a TV show that was canceled, coming back.

00:05:15.200 It's more just this immediacy of ascendancy.

00:05:18.920 Was it, I mean, were you always,

00:05:20.280 you're sort of born and bred with an ideological mindset

00:05:23.660 or were you more open-minded

00:05:25.200 and you started to realize a lot of BS was out there?

00:05:28.080 Yeah, I've always been conservative.

00:05:30.860 Obviously grown in that over the last,

00:05:32.600 you know, 10-ish years.

00:05:34.660 Was more libertarian, I'd say,

00:05:35.860 in the first couple of years as to be expected

00:05:38.020 as I got married and have kids become more conservative.

00:05:41.580 But no, look, just one of the things we saw

00:05:43.500 in the last couple of years

00:05:44.540 that the Democrats completely ignored

00:05:46.160 and your side was basically not acknowledging

00:05:49.860 it was happening,

00:05:50.540 was the crisis that young people were experiencing.

00:05:52.780 Right.

00:05:53.040 That, I mean, just one,

00:05:54.540 it's the first time in America's history

00:05:56.420 that a 30-year-old is going to have it worse off

00:05:58.840 than their parents.

00:05:59.440 Right.

00:05:59.620 It's a breakdown of the social compact.

00:06:01.040 That's right.

00:06:01.400 They are the most alcohol addicted,

00:06:02.920 most drug addicted,

00:06:03.660 most suicidal, most depressed,

00:06:05.440 most medicated generation in history.

00:06:07.460 Right.

00:06:07.720 And the message that was largely being fed

00:06:10.000 to a lot of young people

00:06:11.000 was lower your expectations.

00:06:13.140 You're not going to have the same American dream

00:06:15.200 that your parents would have.

00:06:16.760 And we saw this as an opportunity,

00:06:18.180 especially with young men.

00:06:19.960 And again, this got ridiculed a lot by the press

00:06:21.760 that, oh, you know,

00:06:22.280 they're creating this manosphere thing.

00:06:23.820 Look, they're half of the population

00:06:25.440 and necessary for any society and civilization

00:06:28.260 to succeed,

00:06:29.220 which is to have both strong men and strong women.

00:06:31.780 Yeah.

00:06:32.060 And we went about that

00:06:33.620 in a very unique and creative way.

00:06:36.640 And again, the president

00:06:38.120 became a cultural phenomenon

00:06:40.260 where no matter what you threw at this guy,

00:06:42.280 he rose above it.

00:06:43.760 And you would even have to give him credit.

00:06:44.780 I mean, based on 700 years in federal prison,

00:06:47.420 you know, states tried to kick him off the ballot.

00:06:48.840 I know you spoke out against it,

00:06:49.900 but California did have a faction

00:06:51.320 that tried to kick him off the ballot, right?

00:06:52.940 That's right.

00:06:53.380 And despite all of that,

00:06:55.280 of course, being shot,

00:06:56.220 and that was kind of the crescendo of all of it,

00:06:58.300 he kind of became this figure

00:07:00.140 of an American comeback story.

00:07:02.060 Yeah.

00:07:02.280 So he personified

00:07:04.480 what a lot of young people,

00:07:06.260 especially young men,

00:07:07.160 wanted back in their politics,

00:07:08.680 which was an ascendant rebel attitude

00:07:10.720 against these institutions

00:07:12.660 that have failed them so miserably.

00:07:14.400 It's interesting.

00:07:14.940 So what would,

00:07:15.680 and you keep saying we,

00:07:16.580 which is interesting,

00:07:17.260 and that's the organization

00:07:18.220 that you created,

00:07:18.920 Turning Point, you would say?

00:07:19.260 Yeah, we would be like

00:07:20.280 conservative movement MAGA.

00:07:22.100 But yes, I have Turning Point USA,

00:07:23.220 Turning Point Action,

00:07:24.120 Charlie Kirk Show.

00:07:25.020 Yeah.

00:07:25.420 But when I'm saying we,

00:07:26.940 I mean more specifically,

00:07:29.200 kind of those of us

00:07:30.500 that saw this political moment

00:07:32.440 three or four years ago.

00:07:33.500 Right.

00:07:33.700 But you were at this even before then.

00:07:36.300 Correct.

00:07:36.680 Yeah.

00:07:36.920 So when did you decide

00:07:38.260 to sort of just shift your gear?

00:07:39.540 I mean, you were working

00:07:40.200 for another Kirk

00:07:41.300 and for his campaign.

00:07:42.360 Mark Kirk, yeah.

00:07:43.180 Mark Kirk.

00:07:43.820 So you had a political,

00:07:44.740 obviously you had

00:07:45.140 strong political leanings

00:07:46.580 or at least desire

00:07:47.640 to sort of be in the political sphere,

00:07:49.040 but not in elected office necessarily.

00:07:51.540 You just want to be behind the scenes.

00:07:53.120 Yeah.

00:07:53.340 I mean, like the biography

00:07:55.000 has been written about a million times,

00:07:56.300 but I mean,

00:07:57.300 didn't go to college,

00:07:58.900 wanted to go to West Point,

00:07:59.820 didn't get in.

00:08:00.480 I'm an entrepreneur.

00:08:01.360 Yeah.

00:08:01.640 Love it.

00:08:02.300 Started this organization

00:08:03.760 and it became far more successful

00:08:05.180 than I ever could have realized.

00:08:07.320 And yeah,

00:08:08.600 the kind of

00:08:10.780 as we started to grow

00:08:11.840 the organization,

00:08:12.480 I recognized that there was

00:08:15.200 a ideological imbalance

00:08:16.820 on a lot of these college campuses.

00:08:18.260 And we wanted to go about

00:08:19.600 trying to offer a counterpoint

00:08:21.680 of conservative,

00:08:23.820 you know,

00:08:24.060 pro-freedom,

00:08:24.660 pro-liberty,

00:08:25.620 you know,

00:08:25.840 America first ideals.

00:08:26.580 And you saw the college campuses

00:08:27.980 as sort of the underbelly

00:08:29.440 of the opportunity

00:08:30.120 or is it just more

00:08:31.600 just experiential

00:08:32.640 in terms of your own

00:08:33.900 sort of animus

00:08:34.900 towards the institution?

00:08:36.020 Well, I mean, you have

00:08:36.840 a sitting population

00:08:37.900 of about 20 million kids

00:08:38.940 that are there for four years.

00:08:40.060 There's that.

00:08:40.620 And also, again,

00:08:42.040 you had nowhere to go but up.

00:08:43.860 I mean, 70%,

00:08:44.760 when we started in 2012,

00:08:46.500 75% of kids on college campuses

00:08:48.580 would vote for Democrats.

00:08:49.620 Yeah.

00:08:49.960 Now, fast forward to today,

00:08:51.140 this last election cycle,

00:08:52.760 Democrats lost the youth vote

00:08:54.140 in Michigan,

00:08:55.100 nearly lost it in Wisconsin,

00:08:56.260 nearly lost in Arizona.

00:08:57.560 So our goal was,

00:08:58.440 hey, let's move at 10 points.

00:08:59.500 We moved at 13 points.

00:09:00.980 And this is important

00:09:01.620 for your audience to know

00:09:02.480 and for Democrats to reckon with,

00:09:04.220 of which I see no signs

00:09:05.400 that Democrats care at all

00:09:06.580 that they're losing

00:09:07.020 the next generation.

00:09:07.960 We're drawing record crowds.

00:09:09.480 Our ranks are expanding.

00:09:10.660 The most support

00:09:11.660 that President Trump has

00:09:12.580 is voters under 30.

00:09:13.940 60% of voters under 30

00:09:15.320 support President Trump.

00:09:16.560 That's according to Rasmussen.

00:09:17.480 You might say that's a little rich.

00:09:18.460 It might be,

00:09:19.240 but it's directionally true.

00:09:20.740 Yeah.

00:09:21.140 And one of the main reasons

00:09:23.060 that this has all been happening

00:09:24.120 is that baby boomers

00:09:26.240 have actually seen

00:09:27.040 their wealth increased

00:09:27.860 the last four years.

00:09:29.220 They don't buy into this whole idea

00:09:30.640 that our institutions are broken

00:09:31.860 or that they're in need

00:09:33.580 of massive bottom-up

00:09:35.240 revolutionary change.

00:09:36.800 And we see that actually,

00:09:38.120 Kamala Harris did three points

00:09:39.240 better with baby boomers

00:09:40.180 than she did in 2020.

00:09:41.240 Yeah.

00:09:41.560 And the number one story

00:09:43.140 that, you know,

00:09:44.280 James Carville,

00:09:45.060 who everyone takes seriously

00:09:45.840 for some reason

00:09:46.380 should have been saying,

00:09:47.380 is like all Kamala Harris

00:09:48.560 had to do was just do the same

00:09:50.040 with younger voters

00:09:50.640 that Joe Biden did in 2020.

00:09:52.080 And she would be president right now.

00:09:53.160 And remind us what Joe Biden

00:09:54.360 did in 2020 with younger voters.

00:09:55.580 It was 13 points better,

00:09:56.700 approximately.

00:09:56.960 Oh, in terms of just the numeric system.

00:09:57.720 Again, this is kind of a combination

00:09:59.000 of exit polling.

00:10:00.700 So it's really,

00:10:01.340 it's a difficult science

00:10:02.420 to pinpoint.

00:10:03.400 So that goes back then,

00:10:04.520 I mean, to your point,

00:10:05.520 in order to do that,

00:10:06.840 you've got to stand for something.

00:10:08.220 You've got to assert yourself.

00:10:09.080 You've got to have a strategy

00:10:09.920 and you've got to implement it.

00:10:11.080 You also have to not believe

00:10:12.100 crazy stuff.

00:10:13.220 And not believe crazy stuff.

00:10:14.060 I mean, and so for you,

00:10:15.380 I mean, it's interesting,

00:10:16.280 just, you know,

00:10:16.700 this last week,

00:10:17.360 I guess you were at USC.

00:10:18.680 You were at University of Florida.

00:10:20.180 You had thousands

00:10:20.640 and thousands of folks.

00:10:21.540 You get to your point,

00:10:22.380 your crowds are growing.

00:10:23.880 2012, where were you?

00:10:25.240 You were coming in

00:10:25.860 and people were,

00:10:26.860 I mean, you were taking,

00:10:28.240 I mean, you were like getting threats.

00:10:30.640 I mean, you still get tons of threats.

00:10:32.400 Yep.

00:10:32.620 But it was, I mean,

00:10:34.160 what was it like?

00:10:34.800 Just to paint a picture

00:10:35.660 of you walking to a college campus.

00:10:36.900 I had no money,

00:10:38.300 no connections

00:10:38.820 and no idea what I was doing.

00:10:40.060 And yeah, I mean,

00:10:41.540 we were,

00:10:42.340 I didn't even have

00:10:42.940 a social media account.

00:10:43.900 I mean, it was just

00:10:44.540 the ultimate startup.

00:10:45.820 And what'd you just say?

00:10:46.600 I'm available.

00:10:47.200 And you started

00:10:47.840 at this sort of debate.

00:10:48.660 No, it was even more scrappy.

00:10:50.700 I would literally show up

00:10:51.500 to UW-Madison

00:10:52.220 with a card table

00:10:53.320 and a big cardboard sign

00:10:54.540 saying, debate me.

00:10:55.740 You know, like here's

00:10:56.400 some provocative statement.

00:10:57.220 So you're 20-something years old.

00:10:57.860 And I wouldn't even film it.

00:10:58.920 I was 18 or 19.

00:10:59.900 18 or 19.

00:11:00.560 Yeah.

00:11:00.980 And you just,

00:11:02.180 by the way,

00:11:02.640 where does that end?

00:11:03.140 And sincerely,

00:11:04.020 to be able to debate

00:11:04.740 anybody at any time,

00:11:06.140 anywhere,

00:11:06.700 and in that environment,

00:11:07.840 it's just,

00:11:08.420 I mean,

00:11:08.900 just,

00:11:09.620 you can say

00:11:11.440 it's just confidence

00:11:12.260 or it's just absolute,

00:11:14.400 I mean,

00:11:15.040 narcissism.

00:11:15.760 What is it?

00:11:16.520 I mean, just,

00:11:16.960 or just,

00:11:17.860 I hope it's not the other.

00:11:19.300 But no,

00:11:19.600 I mean,

00:11:19.780 I guess it would just be,

00:11:21.320 I mean,

00:11:21.620 at the most charitable reading,

00:11:22.700 it could be confidence.

00:11:23.540 It also would just be that

00:11:24.600 I wanted to try

00:11:27.140 and challenge

00:11:28.560 the predominant view.

00:11:29.560 I always loved debate

00:11:30.800 and disagreement.

00:11:31.900 I love the kind of spar.

00:11:33.160 Yeah.

00:11:33.620 And yeah,

00:11:34.620 I also find it to be exciting

00:11:35.960 and I wanted to try to,

00:11:37.100 you know,

00:11:37.640 figure out where my idea

00:11:38.500 is actually that good

00:11:39.440 and to kind of draw.

00:11:41.080 Stress test.

00:11:41.740 Yeah, exactly.

00:11:42.040 Are you 10X better

00:11:43.080 than you were in 2012

00:11:44.000 at the format?

00:11:45.600 Probably.

00:11:46.260 Probably.

00:11:46.880 And do you study it

00:11:47.860 or are you just participating?

00:11:49.280 I mean,

00:11:49.500 if you look at the old great debates

00:11:51.380 or you're reading debating books,

00:11:53.060 you're watching sort of the best.

00:11:54.060 I mean, yeah.

00:11:54.320 And I mean,

00:11:54.820 less about debate.

00:11:55.840 I mean,

00:11:56.020 debating is a practice

00:11:57.080 that can really only be refined,

00:11:58.680 you know,

00:11:58.960 with lots of routine

00:12:00.440 and reps and repetition,

00:12:02.320 just more about studying,

00:12:04.220 you know,

00:12:04.960 the great books,

00:12:05.900 philosophy.

00:12:06.800 Right.

00:12:07.120 All those.

00:12:07.560 And so you,

00:12:08.140 and you make a point

00:12:08.920 prior to that.

00:12:09.540 I mean,

00:12:09.820 you are to the point

00:12:11.020 you never,

00:12:11.520 you know,

00:12:11.840 you went to community college

00:12:13.000 and.

00:12:14.120 I didn't even graduate

00:12:14.840 community college.

00:12:15.480 I didn't even graduate

00:12:16.260 community,

00:12:16.660 which is great.

00:12:17.200 By the way,

00:12:17.620 I was going to college

00:12:18.500 in Marin.

00:12:19.000 I got lucky.

00:12:19.860 I got a baseball coach

00:12:20.740 that called me

00:12:21.280 and allowed me

00:12:21.760 to get to a four-year university.

00:12:23.400 I was joking with you

00:12:24.180 before we started 960 SAT.

00:12:26.360 I asked you about your SAT.

00:12:27.620 I don't even know.

00:12:28.100 I took the ACT.

00:12:29.400 You took the ACT,

00:12:30.100 which proves two things,

00:12:31.220 how young you are

00:12:31.940 and how different things were.

00:12:33.840 You were in,

00:12:34.200 you grew up in Illinois.

00:12:35.020 I grew up in Illinois,

00:12:35.600 which Midwest

00:12:36.320 was traditionally

00:12:37.240 more of an ACT.

00:12:37.940 But this has been

00:12:39.300 a point of pride for you

00:12:40.300 that you didn't do

00:12:41.420 a four-year degree.

00:12:42.240 Well, yeah,

00:12:42.440 because I represent

00:12:43.180 most of the country.

00:12:44.240 Is that actually

00:12:44.920 still the majority

00:12:45.600 of the country

00:12:46.020 does not have

00:12:46.580 a college degree.

00:12:47.920 And if I may,

00:12:48.760 you know,

00:12:49.680 bluntly critique

00:12:50.480 the Democrat Party,

00:12:51.720 you guys have become

00:12:52.700 so college credentialed

00:12:54.520 and educated

00:12:55.040 that you guys

00:12:55.780 snobbishly look on

00:12:57.020 the muscular class

00:12:58.040 of this country,

00:12:59.020 the people that kept

00:12:59.820 things afloat

00:13:00.740 and running during COVID.

00:13:02.500 And yeah,

00:13:03.280 I mean,

00:13:03.460 the majority of the country

00:13:04.200 didn't go to Harvard,

00:13:05.140 Princeton, Yale,

00:13:05.720 Stanford, Caltech,

00:13:06.980 or Cal Berkeley,

00:13:07.680 right?

00:13:08.180 Thank you.

00:13:08.480 And the Republican Party

00:13:10.480 has become far more

00:13:11.440 representative of them,

00:13:12.320 large in part

00:13:12.720 thanks to Trump.

00:13:14.340 But yeah,

00:13:14.880 and look,

00:13:15.120 I say it with some pride

00:13:16.200 also because

00:13:17.060 as an entrepreneur,

00:13:18.620 I tried to build something,

00:13:20.300 not just seek a credential.

00:13:21.800 Love that.

00:13:22.320 And there are what,

00:13:23.060 11 million folks,

00:13:24.380 there are 11 million jobs

00:13:25.180 out there,

00:13:25.500 you make this point

00:13:26.200 all the time.

00:13:26.520 Oh yeah,

00:13:26.860 open jobs

00:13:27.480 that don't require

00:13:27.940 a college degree.

00:13:28.180 That do not require

00:13:28.860 a college degree.

00:13:29.940 So when you say,

00:13:31.140 and it's interesting

00:13:31.620 because there's

00:13:32.220 sort of that critique

00:13:32.960 of the Democratic Party

00:13:33.880 that we are captured

00:13:35.160 by the sort of

00:13:36.340 college elite,

00:13:37.340 in what respect,

00:13:38.420 I mean,

00:13:38.700 stress test that

00:13:39.520 for a second,

00:13:40.000 allow me to,

00:13:41.520 what specifically

00:13:42.580 are you referencing

00:13:43.900 in that context?

00:13:44.440 Well,

00:13:44.540 your voters,

00:13:45.400 your voters have become

00:13:46.560 nearly,

00:13:48.140 I mean,

00:13:48.380 the higher you go up

00:13:49.780 the education ladder,

00:13:51.020 the higher the correlation

00:13:51.900 it is that you vote

00:13:52.580 for the Democrat Party.

00:13:53.460 It's almost a one-to-one

00:13:54.500 with PhD.

00:13:55.500 It's like 75%

00:13:56.660 for master's degrees

00:13:57.500 and it's 65%

00:13:58.600 for four year college.

00:13:58.920 Why do you think

00:13:59.460 that's the case?

00:14:00.180 What are the issues

00:14:00.880 that sort of are identified

00:14:01.900 by the line

00:14:02.780 in that respect?

00:14:03.500 The sloppy analysis

00:14:04.380 is like,

00:14:04.740 oh,

00:14:04.880 they're smarter,

00:14:05.440 therefore they must be Democrats.

00:14:06.460 Yeah, right.

00:14:07.000 And I think that's silly

00:14:08.060 and insane.

00:14:08.760 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:09.020 And insulting.

00:14:10.240 I totally agree.

00:14:11.440 The deeper

00:14:12.800 and more profound analysis

00:14:13.880 is that a lot

00:14:15.020 of ideological bubbles

00:14:15.980 that exist

00:14:16.440 on these college campuses,

00:14:17.700 they are homogeneous,

00:14:19.100 not heterodox

00:14:19.940 when it comes

00:14:20.400 to what ideas

00:14:20.940 are expressed.

00:14:22.340 And then secondly,

00:14:23.500 the value system

00:14:25.140 that you leave

00:14:26.160 on college campuses

00:14:27.000 is high trust

00:14:27.820 of institutions.

00:14:28.920 So the biggest divide

00:14:29.600 in America

00:14:29.940 is not right versus left.

00:14:31.300 It's whether or not

00:14:31.760 you generally trust institutions

00:14:33.140 or you don't trust institutions.

00:14:34.660 And this has been largely inverted

00:14:35.880 the last 20 years.

00:14:36.980 Right.

00:14:37.120 So back in the early 2000s,

00:14:38.300 Democrats were low trust

00:14:39.300 of institutions.

00:14:40.320 Iraq war,

00:14:41.140 anti-Bush,

00:14:41.900 anti-NSA,

00:14:42.740 anti-Patriot Act.

00:14:43.880 And that's when you guys

00:14:44.600 had a lot of activist spark

00:14:45.840 and energy.

00:14:46.500 That has been completely inverted.

00:14:48.160 So the right is now

00:14:49.180 low trust of institutions

00:14:50.260 where the left

00:14:50.860 is high trust of institutions.

00:14:52.240 We're the ones

00:14:52.920 that challenge

00:14:53.500 the COVID vaccine.

00:14:54.340 We're the ones

00:14:54.720 that think

00:14:55.040 that public health authorities

00:14:55.940 might have lied to us

00:14:56.720 during COVID.

00:14:57.460 We're the ones

00:14:58.020 that don't necessarily

00:14:58.960 believe the government

00:14:59.640 when it says that

00:15:00.420 we should keep on

00:15:01.080 sending money to Ukraine.

00:15:02.260 Again,

00:15:02.520 that's a general rule.

00:15:04.120 There are some exceptions to that.

00:15:05.460 Right.

00:15:05.580 But when you go to college,

00:15:06.500 you are trained

00:15:07.220 to trust the experts,

00:15:08.520 trust the scientists,

00:15:09.440 trust the people

00:15:10.320 that are leaders of authority.

00:15:11.280 And the Democrat Party

00:15:12.240 is largely the gatekeepers

00:15:14.020 of that kind of ideological

00:15:15.920 and intellectual regime.

00:15:16.840 It's interesting.

00:15:17.560 And so from your perspective,

00:15:19.420 I mean,

00:15:19.820 as you advocate for people

00:15:21.500 to sort of open up

00:15:22.500 a worldview

00:15:23.180 that is life

00:15:24.420 without a four-year degree

00:15:25.600 and all the opportunities

00:15:27.200 that present themselves

00:15:29.120 anew in that respect,

00:15:30.580 are you arguing

00:15:31.340 for the disestablishment,

00:15:34.460 the end

00:15:35.000 of higher education systems?

00:15:36.340 I think it's going to happen

00:15:37.120 no matter what.

00:15:37.840 I mean,

00:15:38.060 in 10 years,

00:15:38.900 artificial intelligence

00:15:39.600 is going to change everything.

00:15:40.600 Yeah.

00:15:40.900 And I don't know

00:15:41.560 what these four-year degrees

00:15:43.080 are actually doing

00:15:43.600 to prepare these kids for that.

00:15:44.700 But no,

00:15:45.160 as far as like,

00:15:45.620 I'm not,

00:15:45.980 I mean,

00:15:46.480 my advocating for the end

00:15:47.780 of the pursuit of learning,

00:15:49.120 of course not.

00:15:49.740 That's one of my big critiques

00:15:50.700 is that at a lot of these schools,

00:15:52.400 they're not pursuing

00:15:53.240 what is good,

00:15:53.820 true,

00:15:53.980 and beautiful.

00:15:54.620 It's become

00:15:55.500 the oppression Olympics

00:15:56.780 and a weaponized complaint seminar

00:15:58.380 of people sitting in the circle

00:15:59.620 and finding out

00:16:00.320 who's been offended

00:16:01.980 the most that day.

00:16:02.740 That's not doing anybody any good.

00:16:04.800 And in fact,

00:16:05.640 it creates a very weak

00:16:06.700 political movement,

00:16:07.720 which I think plays

00:16:08.680 into one of the reasons

00:16:09.360 why we were able

00:16:09.920 to steamroll you guys

00:16:10.700 back in November

00:16:11.340 is that once

00:16:12.700 there's a little opposition

00:16:13.620 against a group of people

00:16:14.980 that have never actually been,

00:16:16.960 you know,

00:16:17.140 had to build the muscle mass

00:16:18.580 of a very difficult

00:16:19.440 and unpredictable world.

00:16:22.460 Whereas those of us

00:16:23.560 that are conservatives,

00:16:24.280 we're insulted all the time.

00:16:25.320 So think about the experience

00:16:26.220 of a kid on a college campus.

00:16:27.680 They say they're graded differently

00:16:28.900 because of their views.

00:16:29.940 They may or may not be right.

00:16:30.760 I think they are.

00:16:31.600 But they're definitely

00:16:32.380 in the ideological minority,

00:16:33.900 right?

00:16:34.060 You wear a Trump hat

00:16:34.800 on a college campus,

00:16:35.600 at least until we came around.

00:16:36.860 That was like a big sign

00:16:38.080 of cultural rebellion.

00:16:39.580 So you have two choices.

00:16:41.280 You can either stop fighting

00:16:42.120 for what you believe in

00:16:42.880 or you become really tough.

00:16:44.280 Yeah.

00:16:44.560 And you create that muscle

00:16:47.020 that allows you

00:16:47.940 to then carry

00:16:49.120 and shoulder

00:16:49.700 a heavier burden.

00:16:50.640 Right.

00:16:51.200 And so just,

00:16:51.980 and I don't want to belabor

00:16:53.180 the issues of the establishment

00:16:55.460 plot called higher education

00:16:56.680 and some have not,

00:16:57.780 you refer to it,

00:16:58.880 though maybe you align yourself.

00:16:59.960 I wrote a whole book

00:17:00.560 called The College Scan.

00:17:01.860 So it's sort of stress testing

00:17:05.660 that in the context of

00:17:06.480 some would argue

00:17:07.580 the contra-argument

00:17:09.680 is, you know,

00:17:10.560 a million dollars more

00:17:11.400 in lifetime earnings,

00:17:13.120 more likely to get married,

00:17:14.260 less likely to get divorced,

00:17:15.380 more likely to be civically engaged

00:17:17.200 and longer life spans

00:17:19.600 with college degrees.

00:17:21.320 And you would say to that-

00:17:22.380 All of those is true.

00:17:22.880 It's just let's,

00:17:23.680 not everyone that goes to college

00:17:24.780 graduates,

00:17:25.420 the national graduation rate.

00:17:26.160 41% drop or something.

00:17:27.160 Yeah, 41% drop out.

00:17:28.560 Exactly right.

00:17:29.660 Also, half the kids

00:17:30.680 that graduate college

00:17:31.520 will not even end up

00:17:32.260 using their degree.

00:17:33.260 That's true.

00:17:33.620 When it comes to

00:17:34.320 the affiliated jobs.

00:17:35.200 So the numbers are true

00:17:36.440 at the highest income.

00:17:37.520 So about 10% of kids

00:17:38.500 that go to college

00:17:39.180 stretch out the averages

00:17:40.500 to be really, really high.

00:17:41.820 Got it.

00:17:41.960 And so, for example,

00:17:43.020 you go to Caltech

00:17:43.720 to study computer engineering

00:17:44.880 and applied AI.

00:17:46.300 Next level.

00:17:46.900 Man, you're crushing it, right?

00:17:47.920 You go to Cal

00:17:48.760 to go study North African

00:17:49.800 lesbian poetry.

00:17:50.980 Yeah.

00:17:51.160 Like-

00:17:52.040 Is that an actual degree there?

00:17:53.420 You tell me, Governor.

00:17:54.060 I don't know.

00:17:54.760 I mean, we fucked it,

00:17:56.100 but I'm not sure.

00:17:56.720 That's one of the courses.

00:17:57.460 See, the fact you don't know.

00:17:58.460 Well, I don't know

00:17:59.140 every single damn course.

00:18:00.400 I know.

00:18:01.040 It should be like,

00:18:02.000 no way!

00:18:02.940 But if the fact it's a maybe,

00:18:04.620 we got some problems.

00:18:05.480 Well, the fact that,

00:18:06.180 you know, a lot of people

00:18:06.800 have explored

00:18:07.640 different disciplines.

00:18:09.040 That's fine.

00:18:09.640 It's just the taxpayers

00:18:10.300 shouldn't have to fund it.

00:18:11.560 Well, yeah, I mean,

00:18:12.480 increasingly,

00:18:13.440 individuals are funding,

00:18:14.600 as you know,

00:18:15.060 as it relates to the,

00:18:16.060 talk about the inversion

00:18:16.980 of how we fund education.

00:18:25.240 There's a type of soil

00:18:26.640 in Mississippi

00:18:27.340 called Yazoo clay.

00:18:29.400 It's thick, burnt orange,

00:18:31.560 and it's got a reputation.

00:18:33.420 It's terrible, terrible,

00:18:34.500 dirt.

00:18:35.040 Yazoo clay eats everything,

00:18:37.440 so things that get buried there

00:18:38.980 tend to stay buried.

00:18:40.640 Until they're not.

00:18:42.600 In 2012,

00:18:43.720 construction crews

00:18:44.580 at Mississippi's

00:18:45.540 biggest hospital

00:18:46.560 made a shocking discovery.

00:18:48.600 7,000 bodies out there,

00:18:51.660 or more?

00:18:52.120 All former patients

00:18:53.460 of the old state asylum,

00:18:55.600 and nobody knew

00:18:56.780 they were there.

00:18:57.480 It was my family's mystery.

00:18:59.760 But in this corner

00:19:00.540 of the South,

00:19:01.460 it's not just the soil

00:19:02.860 that keeps secrets.

00:19:03.980 Nobody talks about it.

00:19:05.900 Nobody has any information.

00:19:07.520 When you peel back

00:19:08.300 the layers of Mississippi's

00:19:09.740 Yazoo clay,

00:19:10.780 nothing's ever as simple

00:19:12.100 as you think.

00:19:12.800 The story is much more complicated

00:19:16.280 and nuanced than that.

00:19:18.400 I'm Larison Campbell.

00:19:19.720 Listen to Under Yazoo Clay

00:19:21.580 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:19:23.560 Apple Podcasts,

00:19:24.620 or wherever

00:19:25.420 you get your podcasts.

00:19:27.000 Hi, friends.

00:19:28.920 Sophia Bush here,

00:19:30.420 host of Work in Progress.

00:19:32.260 This week,

00:19:32.780 we had such a special guest

00:19:34.820 on the podcast.

00:19:36.620 My forever flotus,

00:19:38.600 a mentor,

00:19:39.520 a friend,

00:19:40.100 a wife,

00:19:40.620 a mother,

00:19:41.100 an author,

00:19:42.180 attorney,

00:19:42.820 advocate,

00:19:43.380 television producer,

00:19:44.300 and now,

00:19:45.540 she adds podcast host

00:19:47.100 to the list herself.

00:19:48.980 Friends,

00:19:49.680 Michelle Obama is here.

00:19:51.280 Sophia,

00:19:51.640 I'm beyond thrilled

00:19:52.820 to be able to sit down

00:19:53.960 and chat with you.

00:19:54.800 We talk about it all.

00:19:56.720 Life,

00:19:57.260 love,

00:19:58.200 motherhood,

00:19:58.760 martinis.

00:19:59.660 Vodka martini,

00:20:00.920 dry,

00:20:01.540 straight up,

00:20:02.140 olives.

00:20:02.440 Ooh,

00:20:03.180 olives.

00:20:03.560 Very cold.

00:20:04.960 My girl.

00:20:05.940 Barely any vermouth.

00:20:07.340 What's next?

00:20:08.540 What she's watching on TV.

00:20:10.540 I am a white lotuser.

00:20:12.060 I am a real housewives person.

00:20:14.840 I love the dating shows.

00:20:16.640 And tennis.

00:20:17.620 I just find that

00:20:18.800 to be a bit meditative.

00:20:20.700 You do not want to miss this.

00:20:22.080 Listen to Work in Progress

00:20:23.100 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:20:24.800 Apple Podcasts,

00:20:25.920 or wherever you get

00:20:26.780 your podcasts.

00:20:28.220 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

00:20:29.720 And if you've ever felt

00:20:30.860 the weight of letting go

00:20:32.240 of people,

00:20:33.580 past versions of yourself,

00:20:35.120 or the expectations

00:20:36.460 placed on you,

00:20:38.000 this episode is for you.

00:20:40.540 Lizzo opens up

00:20:41.560 like never before

00:20:42.520 about self-love,

00:20:44.100 transformation,

00:20:45.160 and finding real peace

00:20:46.780 in a world

00:20:47.700 that constantly tries

00:20:49.040 to define you.

00:20:50.100 It's not me anymore.

00:20:51.300 Whoever Lizzo is

00:20:52.200 to the world

00:20:52.680 is not really even me.

00:20:53.800 And that disconnect

00:20:54.840 is depressing.

00:20:57.460 The Grammy goes to

00:20:58.780 Lizzo!

00:21:02.180 I think it's also hard

00:21:03.580 when the things

00:21:04.620 that you stand for

00:21:05.600 are the same things

00:21:06.740 that you're being scrutinized for.

00:21:07.860 The weight

00:21:08.440 that is no longer on me

00:21:10.280 is not just

00:21:11.400 fat or physical.

00:21:12.940 I released

00:21:13.560 so much

00:21:15.420 to get to this point.

00:21:16.860 And to be honest with you,

00:21:17.900 I don't feel like

00:21:18.460 I've expressed myself

00:21:19.480 fully in the last two years.

00:21:21.620 Listen to On Purpose

00:21:22.740 with Jay Shetty

00:21:23.540 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:21:25.380 Apple Podcasts,

00:21:26.420 or wherever you get

00:21:27.240 your podcasts.

00:21:27.840 The number one hit

00:21:32.540 true crime podcast,

00:21:33.880 The Girlfriends,

00:21:34.540 is back

00:21:35.200 with something new,

00:21:36.760 The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:21:38.820 Our first two series

00:21:40.200 introduce you

00:21:40.940 to an incredible gang

00:21:42.420 of women

00:21:42.900 who teamed up

00:21:43.820 to fight injustice,

00:21:45.640 showing just how powerful

00:21:46.840 sisterly solidarity

00:21:48.080 can be.

00:21:49.140 And we're keeping

00:21:49.740 this mission alive

00:21:50.720 with The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:21:52.340 Each week,

00:21:54.560 a different woman

00:21:55.200 sits down with me,

00:21:56.500 Anna Sinfield,

00:21:57.340 to share their

00:21:58.000 incredible story

00:21:59.060 of triumph over adversity.

00:22:01.520 Like Tracy,

00:22:02.540 who survived

00:22:03.180 a terrifying attack.

00:22:04.780 I remember that feeling

00:22:06.300 of,

00:22:07.280 okay,

00:22:07.840 this is how I die.

00:22:09.360 And turned that darkness

00:22:10.560 into the most

00:22:11.560 incredible journey.

00:22:13.140 I want to take over

00:22:13.920 the world

00:22:14.300 and just leave this place

00:22:15.560 better than I found it.

00:22:16.760 Which took her

00:22:17.340 all the way to Paris

00:22:18.460 for the Paralympic Games.

00:22:20.440 Oh my gosh,

00:22:21.640 this is amazing.

00:22:24.480 So come and join

00:22:25.440 our girl gang.

00:22:26.580 Listen to

00:22:27.080 The Girlfriends Spotlight

00:22:28.340 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:22:30.040 Apple Podcasts,

00:22:30.960 or wherever you get

00:22:32.080 your podcasts.

00:22:43.980 And by the way,

00:22:44.860 just FYI,

00:22:45.700 having just put together

00:22:46.880 a career master plan,

00:22:48.120 we had a master plan

00:22:48.820 in the state of California

00:22:49.580 that created

00:22:49.980 the UC systems,

00:22:51.100 the CSUs,

00:22:51.780 and the community college system

00:22:52.880 half century ago.

00:22:53.920 We've applied

00:22:54.640 the same discipline

00:22:55.460 to a career master plan

00:22:57.340 in the state of California.

00:22:58.820 And so I'm completely

00:22:59.760 aligned with you

00:23:00.560 in terms of a focus

00:23:01.660 and energy there

00:23:02.460 and looking at

00:23:03.360 pre-apprentice apprenticeships,

00:23:04.580 looking not even

00:23:05.620 at apprenticeships

00:23:06.260 in the traditional sense,

00:23:07.340 but valuing

00:23:08.160 and highlighting

00:23:08.860 and signaling

00:23:09.640 the value

00:23:10.660 of a life

00:23:11.940 without a degree,

00:23:12.800 et cetera.

00:23:13.100 So I'm not as far

00:23:14.520 off on this

00:23:15.640 as you are.

00:23:16.200 That said,

00:23:17.100 I've just,

00:23:17.660 I've got to admire

00:23:18.840 what you've been able

00:23:20.160 to do,

00:23:20.760 not to weaponize,

00:23:22.340 but to organize

00:23:23.200 on these college campuses

00:23:24.480 a different point of view.

00:23:26.360 And again,

00:23:26.680 let's talk about

00:23:27.420 some of that.

00:23:28.260 When you go

00:23:28.680 to these college campuses,

00:23:29.480 I love watching your TikTok,

00:23:30.760 which is next level.

00:23:31.720 Clearly,

00:23:32.140 that's expressed

00:23:32.700 by my 13-year-old son.

00:23:34.080 I want to meet this guy.

00:23:34.940 I actually am.

00:23:36.740 He's coming to a

00:23:37.160 turning point event

00:23:37.800 this summer,

00:23:38.780 Tampa, Florida,

00:23:39.480 Student Action Summit.

00:23:40.840 I actually am concerned,

00:23:41.820 by the way,

00:23:42.500 if he did.

00:23:42.680 You should be concerned.

00:23:43.860 But let me say,

00:23:44.860 here is why I'm concerned

00:23:46.360 because you have expressed

00:23:47.680 that I should be concerned

00:23:48.800 as a Democrat,

00:23:50.000 that we're getting,

00:23:50.900 we're getting clobbered.

00:23:52.320 Yes.

00:23:52.940 That you've figured

00:23:54.300 something out.

00:23:55.340 It's not me.

00:23:56.000 The president first

00:23:56.720 deserves the credit.

00:23:57.540 But why,

00:23:57.960 no, no,

00:23:58.240 hold on.

00:23:58.660 You were at this

00:23:59.280 before Trump was Trump.

00:24:00.480 No, I know,

00:24:00.820 but he was a Democrat

00:24:01.820 back in 2011 and 12.

00:24:03.540 Yeah, but the president

00:24:04.040 deserves huge credit.

00:24:05.660 And I just have to say that

00:24:06.660 as an obligatory thing

00:24:07.760 because without him,

00:24:08.480 our movement would be small.

00:24:09.500 And you can appreciate

00:24:10.440 that in politics.

00:24:11.080 You have to appreciate

00:24:11.900 the person who is the catalyst.

00:24:13.680 For you,

00:24:14.260 that's what you sort of

00:24:15.000 attached an identity with him?

00:24:15.960 It was also just the catalyst.

00:24:17.140 It was a cultural moment

00:24:18.320 that just opened us up.

00:24:19.740 But go back just on that

00:24:21.280 because I'm curious.

00:24:22.160 In 2012, 13, 14,

00:24:23.800 who were you identifying with

00:24:25.140 from the movement perspective?

00:24:26.320 I was more like,

00:24:27.280 as I mentioned,

00:24:27.760 Ron Paul,

00:24:28.500 Rand Paul,

00:24:29.020 Libertarian.

00:24:29.520 That's where the energy

00:24:30.340 really was, right?

00:24:31.620 And then President Trump

00:24:32.980 comes on.

00:24:33.580 And again,

00:24:33.960 I was still very early

00:24:34.880 in my political journey.

00:24:37.480 So you're looking up a lot.

00:24:38.620 You know,

00:24:38.800 who's the top voices?

00:24:39.880 What do you believe?

00:24:40.460 Why do you believe it?

00:24:41.360 Yeah.

00:24:41.860 So more libertarian, Frank.

00:24:43.060 It was more,

00:24:43.440 and I still have some

00:24:44.260 libertarian leanings on something.

00:24:45.240 And when Trump

00:24:45.940 came down that escalator,

00:24:47.200 you're like, boom,

00:24:47.920 that's my guy.

00:24:48.440 Not day one.

00:24:48.760 No, I was mystified at first.

00:24:51.320 Why?

00:24:51.620 Just saying this guy's,

00:24:52.480 there's no chance of that.

00:24:52.900 No, it's funny.

00:24:53.720 I actually sent out a tweet

00:24:54.640 very like 2011

00:24:55.540 when I was in high school

00:24:56.560 saying Trump should run for office.

00:24:57.680 But I was not mystified negatively.

00:24:59.100 I was like,

00:25:00.060 can this really happen?

00:25:01.880 Can a guy that has

00:25:02.600 no political experience

00:25:03.600 come down an escalator,

00:25:04.880 challenge the whole establishment?

00:25:06.620 Right.

00:25:06.860 But you didn't expect

00:25:07.580 Donald Trump

00:25:08.240 to come down the escalator

00:25:09.040 and start talking about

00:25:09.980 illegal aliens or,

00:25:11.620 you know,

00:25:12.000 rapists and murderers?

00:25:12.100 I didn't disagree with it.

00:25:13.700 Well, you didn't.

00:25:14.420 Yeah.

00:25:14.860 I can see that coming.

00:25:15.520 And again,

00:25:16.080 this is well documented.

00:25:17.140 Early in my journey,

00:25:18.020 I underestimated

00:25:19.280 the silent majority

00:25:20.820 that really wanted

00:25:21.980 a rebalancing

00:25:22.880 of the American

00:25:24.300 political landscape.

00:25:25.760 So interesting.

00:25:26.460 So Trump then became

00:25:27.720 the catalyst.

00:25:28.700 And so Turning Point

00:25:29.540 became sort of next level.

00:25:31.220 Correct.

00:25:31.340 Your events start growing.

00:25:32.760 You organize around that.

00:25:34.120 Turning Point action

00:25:35.000 becomes what?

00:25:35.680 The political arm.

00:25:36.700 So one is more educational,

00:25:38.180 one is more political.

00:25:39.360 And we did ballot chasing

00:25:40.460 in Arizona.

00:25:42.320 And Wisconsin,

00:25:43.020 we were successful in that.

00:25:45.000 Alongside the Trump campaign,

00:25:46.780 Arizona was the best

00:25:47.520 performing swing state.

00:25:48.500 And you're not modeling

00:25:49.300 yourself at anything

00:25:50.080 because the flatness

00:25:51.220 of the surrounding terrain,

00:25:52.200 meaning we're the Democrats.

00:25:53.480 Are we looking at

00:25:54.160 other organizing?

00:25:55.460 We were modeling off of

00:25:56.900 some of the ballot chasing,

00:25:58.840 ballot harvesting practices

00:25:59.920 of the left.

00:26:00.820 Yeah.

00:26:01.500 But I mean,

00:26:02.160 there's,

00:26:02.540 again,

00:26:02.900 that's a self-limiting principle.

00:26:06.300 You can't ballot chase

00:26:07.460 if no one wants to vote for you.

00:26:08.820 That's right.

00:26:09.460 So, I mean,

00:26:09.940 you could have the best organizers

00:26:11.000 in the world

00:26:11.480 and you have 2,000 people

00:26:12.440 chasing ballots in Arizona

00:26:13.500 and you're running

00:26:14.980 Kamala Harris in Arizona.

00:26:16.600 What you actually was,

00:26:17.200 and what we ended up

00:26:17.840 tracking through our data

00:26:18.820 is that the Democrats

00:26:20.280 were chasing for us,

00:26:21.360 is that they were chasing

00:26:22.660 low propensity Hispanics

00:26:23.800 thinking that they were

00:26:24.540 all for Kamala.

00:26:26.180 And in fact,

00:26:26.760 we were looking at

00:26:27.480 the precinct numbers

00:26:28.200 of areas we didn't hit

00:26:29.200 that moved like 20 points

00:26:30.700 in Trump's direction.

00:26:31.520 We're like,

00:26:32.020 well,

00:26:32.100 thank you very much,

00:26:32.860 Kamala campaign,

00:26:33.460 for getting out

00:26:34.740 and chasing our ballots.

00:26:35.700 And for all these Hispanic men

00:26:38.160 that are mechanics,

00:26:39.100 we appreciate it.

00:26:40.060 Thanks for making sure

00:26:41.660 that we also won

00:26:42.720 Dave McCormick's Senate seat.

00:26:44.320 Right, right.

00:26:45.000 So again,

00:26:45.600 chasing is only one part of the,

00:26:47.100 like Democrats,

00:26:48.120 of course,

00:26:48.600 are better organizers than us.

00:26:49.840 I mean,

00:26:49.980 it's in your blood.

00:26:51.400 Barack Obama was a community organizer.

00:26:52.780 We make fun of it.

00:26:53.520 It's who you guys are.

00:26:54.540 You guys have labor

00:26:55.260 as a backbone,

00:26:56.200 clipboard and tennis shoes.

00:26:57.880 However,

00:26:58.140 labor less and less.

00:26:59.260 We can talk about that.

00:26:59.980 For sure.

00:27:00.480 In a moment.

00:27:00.940 But what we always felt

00:27:03.440 that we had

00:27:03.960 is we felt we had better ideas

00:27:05.260 and a better message

00:27:05.880 and all that.

00:27:06.700 The idea was,

00:27:07.420 can we combo a little bit

00:27:08.860 of organizing practices

00:27:09.900 with a mass movement,

00:27:11.520 which is how you get

00:27:12.240 a national popular vote victory

00:27:13.600 and a overwhelming

00:27:15.680 electoral landslide.

00:27:16.600 And so what do you see?

00:27:17.360 Just,

00:27:17.600 I mean,

00:27:17.900 I sort of talked about

00:27:19.320 the flatness of the surrounding terrain,

00:27:20.740 meaning the Democratic Party's party

00:27:22.520 in some respect

00:27:23.960 as it relates to,

00:27:25.100 I appreciate your point

00:27:26.040 about organizing,

00:27:27.420 but also coercion

00:27:28.640 versus,

00:27:29.900 you know,

00:27:30.060 sort of forcing people

00:27:31.220 to vote

00:27:31.600 versus an enthusiasm

00:27:32.980 and a desire

00:27:33.920 to actually proactively get out.

00:27:35.100 Eventually that has

00:27:35.820 a backfiring effect too.

00:27:36.860 I appreciate that.

00:27:38.500 And so what do you see right now?

00:27:40.160 I mean,

00:27:40.820 you know,

00:27:41.100 I think you talked about it

00:27:42.640 the other day.

00:27:43.120 A lot of folks were talking

00:27:44.000 about that Carville article

00:27:45.720 where he talked about-

00:27:46.440 Roll over and play dead.

00:27:47.440 Roll over.

00:27:48.280 In essence,

00:27:49.060 he said that I think

00:27:49.620 it was a strategic retreat,

00:27:51.180 right?

00:27:51.820 That we need to come back.

00:27:52.960 Trump's starting to explode.

00:27:54.140 His numbers are getting soft.

00:27:55.860 This was even before

00:27:56.880 the tariff issues,

00:27:58.160 et cetera.

00:27:58.420 And then come back

00:27:59.480 and strike went hot.

00:28:00.440 And I immediately,

00:28:02.160 no BS,

00:28:02.680 thought about you

00:28:03.340 who's just 24-7

00:28:04.780 flooding the zone

00:28:05.560 back to my 13-year-old,

00:28:07.200 owning this space,

00:28:08.200 every day getting a convert,

00:28:09.720 every day picking up

00:28:10.540 one,

00:28:10.900 two,

00:28:11.340 10,000 folks,

00:28:12.760 continuing the momentum,

00:28:13.940 coming out of this damn election.

00:28:15.400 And then I'm thinking about,

00:28:16.560 we're going to stand back

00:28:17.900 and watch you

00:28:19.420 run circles around us

00:28:20.960 for six months,

00:28:22.320 the next two or three years,

00:28:24.020 waiting for the moment

00:28:25.560 to finally strike.

00:28:26.580 strike struck me

00:28:27.840 as not necessarily

00:28:28.700 the best advice

00:28:29.640 and it's not a knock

00:28:30.440 on Carville

00:28:30.920 who I have deep respect for.

00:28:32.620 What's your thoughts?

00:28:33.060 That's okay.

00:28:33.660 So I don't have to.

00:28:34.940 He was,

00:28:35.460 he's read about one thing

00:28:36.300 in the last 40 years.

00:28:37.040 It's economy stupid.

00:28:37.760 And boy,

00:28:38.140 he spent,

00:28:38.740 he spent down that one line

00:28:40.040 pretty amazingly.

00:28:41.260 But yeah,

00:28:41.740 look,

00:28:42.000 I'll say,

00:28:42.320 I don't want to make this

00:28:42.940 about Carville,

00:28:43.440 but like,

00:28:43.920 yeah,

00:28:44.040 I hope you guys retreat.

00:28:45.680 You kind of like the advice.

00:28:46.740 More for us.

00:28:47.380 I mean,

00:28:47.760 there's no opposition.

00:28:48.700 There's no activist,

00:28:49.520 activist spark.

00:28:50.780 If like,

00:28:51.020 you guys are posting

00:28:52.120 these cringe videos

00:28:53.200 on social media.

00:28:54.020 What are the videos?

00:28:54.740 What are the ones

00:28:55.100 that are most cringy?

00:28:55.640 this like harmonious thing

00:28:57.380 of like 22 senators

00:28:58.380 all saying the same thing.

00:28:59.660 I didn't like that.

00:28:59.980 Yeah.

00:29:00.320 I didn't like it.

00:29:01.040 Go ahead.

00:29:01.580 Go do more of that.

00:29:02.700 What do you do?

00:29:03.400 What do you do?

00:29:04.340 Seriously,

00:29:04.760 Charlie Kirk,

00:29:05.300 give us some advice.

00:29:06.000 Get better ideas,

00:29:06.680 governor.

00:29:07.060 Like for example,

00:29:07.720 I mean,

00:29:07.880 like if you want to like,

00:29:09.280 you have an opportunity

00:29:10.040 to like,

00:29:10.660 you know,

00:29:10.860 run to the middle

00:29:11.460 and see this man.

00:29:12.240 So obviously you're talking

00:29:12.900 to me about people.

00:29:13.720 So like you right now

00:29:14.840 should come out

00:29:15.560 and be like,

00:29:16.220 you know what?

00:29:17.020 The young man

00:29:17.660 who's about to win

00:29:18.520 the state championship

00:29:19.400 in the long jump

00:29:20.140 in female sports.

00:29:21.240 Right.

00:29:21.540 That's that,

00:29:22.340 that shouldn't happen.

00:29:23.040 You as the governor

00:29:23.660 should step out

00:29:24.260 and say no.

00:29:24.900 No,

00:29:25.040 and I appreciate it.

00:29:26.180 But like,

00:29:26.540 would you do something like that?

00:29:27.680 Would you say no men

00:29:28.480 in female sports?

00:29:29.140 Well,

00:29:29.320 I think it's an issue of fairness.

00:29:30.780 I completely agree with you on that.

00:29:32.460 It is an issue of fairness.

00:29:33.520 So it's deeply unfair.

00:29:34.340 Would you speak out

00:29:35.040 against this young man,

00:29:36.060 A.B. Hernandez,

00:29:37.020 who right now is going to win

00:29:38.040 the state championship

00:29:38.780 in the long jump?

00:29:39.720 I can see you wrestling with it.

00:29:41.140 No,

00:29:41.300 I'm not wrestling.

00:29:42.060 I'm not relaxing

00:29:42.700 with the fairness issue.

00:29:44.080 I totally agree with you.

00:29:44.820 By the way,

00:29:45.200 as someone with four kids,

00:29:46.320 I think I have two daughters,

00:29:47.300 right?

00:29:47.560 Two daughters.

00:29:47.980 And I have a daughter too.

00:29:48.860 And a wife that went,

00:29:50.040 God forbid,

00:29:50.480 to Stanford

00:29:50.960 and played

00:29:51.480 on the junior national soccer team

00:29:53.920 and a guy who got into college

00:29:55.100 only because

00:29:55.620 I was left-handed

00:29:56.940 and could throw a baseball

00:29:58.560 a little bit

00:29:59.140 or hit the ball

00:30:00.420 for a little bit.

00:30:01.960 So I revere sports.

00:30:04.240 And so the issue of fairness

00:30:05.140 is completely legit.

00:30:06.740 And I saw that

00:30:07.860 the last couple of years.

00:30:09.400 Boy,

00:30:09.760 did I saw

00:30:10.320 how you guys

00:30:11.380 were able to weaponize

00:30:12.160 that issue

00:30:12.480 at another level.

00:30:13.200 Not weaponized.

00:30:14.500 Weaponized maybe

00:30:15.140 pejorative.

00:30:15.820 You're right.

00:30:16.580 But you were able to

00:30:17.200 shine a light on?

00:30:18.460 Highlight it

00:30:18.960 in a way that,

00:30:19.740 frankly,

00:30:20.180 there are not that many.

00:30:21.940 We're talking about,

00:30:22.520 I think,

00:30:22.760 NC2A,

00:30:23.820 what,

00:30:23.960 510,000?

00:30:24.880 No, no,

00:30:25.300 but I just didn't realize.

00:30:26.660 It's 890 medals

00:30:27.720 and trophies

00:30:28.240 that we know of

00:30:28.960 in the last five years.

00:30:29.840 That's a lot.

00:30:30.380 No, so I'm going to,

00:30:31.560 let me step back,

00:30:32.380 say completely fair

00:30:33.480 on the issue of fairness.

00:30:34.800 I completely agree.

00:30:35.900 So that's easy to call out,

00:30:37.000 the unfairness of that.

00:30:38.440 There's also a humility

00:30:39.380 and a grace

00:30:40.040 that these poor people

00:30:42.480 are more likely

00:30:42.960 to commit suicide,

00:30:43.940 have anxiety

00:30:44.380 and depression.

00:30:45.540 And the way

00:30:46.200 that people talk down

00:30:47.600 to vulnerable communities

00:30:48.560 is an issue

00:30:49.240 that I have a hard time

00:30:50.880 with as well.

00:30:51.980 So both things

00:30:52.900 I can hold in my hand.

00:30:54.320 How can we address

00:30:55.100 this issue

00:30:55.640 with the kind of decency

00:30:57.220 that I think,

00:30:58.120 you know,

00:30:58.620 is inherent in you,

00:30:59.940 but not always expressed

00:31:01.540 on the issue.

00:31:02.480 No, I get it.

00:31:02.980 At the same time,

00:31:03.620 deal with the unfairness.

00:31:04.600 You asked a good faith question,

00:31:06.560 like how do we Democrats

00:31:07.460 get out of the wilderness?

00:31:08.700 This one is an 80-20 issue.

00:31:10.160 New York Times poll, right?

00:31:11.500 No, I agree with you.

00:31:12.220 We're getting crushed on.

00:31:13.720 Crushed.

00:31:14.040 And you have an opportunity

00:31:14.740 in the state to be like,

00:31:15.740 look, I have a heart

00:31:16.840 for A.B. Hernandez.

00:31:17.760 I have a heart

00:31:18.160 for the San Jose volleyball player.

00:31:20.000 Let's give them compassion.

00:31:21.440 What's not fair

00:31:22.060 is just for like a woman's,

00:31:23.480 entire woman's sports.

00:31:25.180 I agree.

00:31:25.560 You know,

00:31:26.080 by the way,

00:31:26.380 I agree with you.

00:31:27.140 I agree with you.

00:31:27.600 And it's interesting.

00:31:28.320 I stress tested this, Charlie.

00:31:29.500 I was wondering,

00:31:30.220 I said, you know,

00:31:31.060 in California,

00:31:31.720 and I've been a leader

00:31:32.360 in the LGBTQ place,

00:31:33.560 as you know,

00:31:34.480 back in 2004,

00:31:35.560 was marrying same-sex couples.

00:31:36.960 And I know we have

00:31:37.920 different opinion

00:31:38.540 on marriage equality.

00:31:40.720 And so I've been at this

00:31:41.940 for years and years.

00:31:42.600 I take a bad seat to no one.

00:31:44.040 But I was actually

00:31:44.720 on the issue of sports,

00:31:45.880 which in the last few years

00:31:47.360 has just exploded,

00:31:48.900 trying to understand

00:31:50.180 and understand

00:31:50.640 the 10 athletes

00:31:51.440 in the NCAA,

00:31:52.100 510,000 athletes,

00:31:54.060 but 10 athletes.

00:31:55.000 But how profound,

00:31:56.460 and even my own friend cohort,

00:31:58.120 people saying,

00:31:58.760 what the hell is going on?

00:31:59.960 Why aren't you calling this out?

00:32:01.660 When did this happen?

00:32:02.960 So in 2000,

00:32:03.780 it turns out in 2014,

00:32:05.600 years before I was governor,

00:32:06.660 there was a law established

00:32:07.940 that established

00:32:08.700 the legal principles

00:32:09.880 that allow trans athletes

00:32:12.820 in women's sports.

00:32:14.480 But the issue of fairness

00:32:15.660 is completely legit.

00:32:16.660 So I completely align with you.

00:32:18.340 And we've got to own that.

00:32:19.880 We've got to acknowledge it.

00:32:20.800 I don't say that

00:32:21.500 through the prism,

00:32:22.100 of politics,

00:32:23.040 because you disagree

00:32:24.000 with same-sex marriage

00:32:25.100 on principle.

00:32:27.300 And so I'm not,

00:32:28.120 and by the way,

00:32:28.680 I value the fact

00:32:29.640 that you're not trying

00:32:30.820 to walk away

00:32:31.440 from that principle

00:32:32.140 because electorally,

00:32:33.880 that's kind of-

00:32:34.620 I'm in the minority of it.

00:32:36.000 Yeah, in the minority.

00:32:36.900 And I don't want to walk away

00:32:37.880 from this principle

00:32:38.480 because it's electoral,

00:32:39.820 but it is an issue of fairness.

00:32:42.080 And I think Democrats have lost that.

00:32:43.640 No, and I think that,

00:32:45.000 I wish that we would have done

00:32:46.140 this podcast last week.

00:32:47.820 Last week?

00:32:48.400 Well, because the U.S. Senate

00:32:49.360 just vote,

00:32:50.000 every Democrat voted

00:32:50.880 against that bill.

00:32:52.100 And I'm just telling you,

00:32:52.780 like, again,

00:32:53.360 I'm not one to give

00:32:54.440 Governor Newsom advice.

00:32:55.900 You guys are giving us

00:32:56.900 an 80-20 issue

00:32:58.040 that is just permeating

00:32:59.880 the country.

00:33:00.880 And it's such an affront

00:33:02.260 to our senses.

00:33:03.020 And you look at these videos,

00:33:03.960 Governor,

00:33:04.180 because it's not just that it's,

00:33:05.500 okay, you read an article about it,

00:33:06.580 but these young men

00:33:07.960 that are,

00:33:09.040 you know,

00:33:09.680 are in these sports,

00:33:10.560 they're throwing around girls,

00:33:11.800 and it is an issue of fairness,

00:33:13.520 but it goes to a broader

00:33:14.660 arch narrative.

00:33:15.480 There you go.

00:33:16.120 Which is important.

00:33:17.020 No, and this,

00:33:17.360 I want to hear this.

00:33:18.000 Which is this,

00:33:18.500 that the Democrats,

00:33:20.980 you guys will tend to view

00:33:22.260 an incident through

00:33:23.060 an oppressor-repressed lens.

00:33:24.420 Yeah.

00:33:24.660 It's your training.

00:33:25.440 It comes from college.

00:33:26.320 It comes from,

00:33:27.280 and we,

00:33:28.320 as conservatives,

00:33:29.040 tend to view things

00:33:29.780 through right or wrong

00:33:30.740 or just or unjust.

00:33:32.820 And the country

00:33:33.500 is going far more

00:33:34.740 in our direction

00:33:35.580 and away from your direction

00:33:37.140 because the problem

00:33:38.380 with oppressor-repressed

00:33:39.520 is eventually

00:33:40.480 you run out of oppressors

00:33:42.400 and you start creating them

00:33:43.400 out of thin air.

00:33:44.340 Yeah.

00:33:44.700 And you start trying to say,

00:33:45.920 well, these people

00:33:46.460 must be blamed

00:33:47.220 for all of our problems

00:33:48.240 or that's where you get

00:33:49.460 a lot of the,

00:33:51.720 let's just say a lot of,

00:33:53.020 for example,

00:33:53.420 there's a Wall Street Journal editorial

00:33:54.440 like,

00:33:54.820 when will the white men

00:33:55.600 shut up or stop complaining?

00:33:57.320 That does no good

00:33:58.160 for anybody, right?

00:33:59.000 No.

00:33:59.540 So what I'm getting at,

00:34:01.320 though,

00:34:01.520 is it's a worldview difference,

00:34:02.900 right?

00:34:03.060 Yeah, I get it.

00:34:03.480 And so getting-

00:34:04.280 So that's why the issue

00:34:04.980 is so much more powerful

00:34:06.240 than-

00:34:06.960 Of course it is

00:34:07.400 because it's also

00:34:08.220 pattern recognition.

00:34:09.300 It's pattern recognition

00:34:10.240 of a Democrat party

00:34:11.120 that post-2020

00:34:12.080 decided to go all in.

00:34:13.700 We call it woke.

00:34:14.560 You might call it,

00:34:15.360 you know,

00:34:15.700 justice or whatever it is,

00:34:17.280 but it's so outside

00:34:18.420 of what we would consider

00:34:20.120 traditional Americans'

00:34:21.360 norms and customs.

00:34:28.460 There's a type of soil

00:34:29.900 in Mississippi

00:34:30.600 called Yazoo clay.

00:34:32.500 It's thick,

00:34:33.800 burnt orange,

00:34:34.520 and it's got a reputation.

00:34:36.240 It's terrible,

00:34:37.460 terrible dirt.

00:34:38.320 Yazoo clay eats everything,

00:34:40.820 so things that get buried there

00:34:42.240 tend to stay buried.

00:34:43.920 Until they're not.

00:34:45.900 In 2012,

00:34:46.980 construction crews

00:34:47.860 at Mississippi's

00:34:48.820 biggest hospital

00:34:49.820 made a shocking discovery.

00:34:51.860 7,000 bodies out there,

00:34:54.940 or more?

00:34:55.620 All former patients

00:34:56.720 of the old state asylum,

00:34:58.880 and nobody knew

00:35:00.060 they were there.

00:35:00.720 It was my family's mystery.

00:35:02.660 But in this corner

00:35:03.820 of the South,

00:35:04.580 it's not just the soil

00:35:06.120 that keeps secrets.

00:35:07.480 Nobody talks about it,

00:35:09.160 nobody has any information.

00:35:10.780 When you peel back

00:35:11.580 the layers of Mississippi's

00:35:13.000 Yazoo clay,

00:35:14.040 nothing's ever as simple

00:35:15.360 as you think.

00:35:16.300 The story is much

00:35:18.000 more complicated

00:35:19.520 and nuanced

00:35:20.700 than that.

00:35:22.000 I'm Larison Campbell.

00:35:23.460 Listen to Under Yazoo Clay

00:35:24.860 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:35:26.820 Apple Podcasts,

00:35:27.880 or wherever

00:35:28.680 you get your podcasts.

00:35:31.040 Hi, friends.

00:35:32.620 Sophia Bush here,

00:35:33.700 host of Work in Progress.

00:35:35.520 This week,

00:35:36.060 we had such a special guest

00:35:38.080 on the podcast.

00:35:39.860 My forever flotus,

00:35:41.880 a mentor,

00:35:42.780 a friend,

00:35:43.380 a wife,

00:35:43.900 a mother,

00:35:44.380 an author,

00:35:45.440 attorney,

00:35:46.100 advocate,

00:35:46.660 television producer,

00:35:47.560 and now

00:35:48.480 she adds podcast host

00:35:50.360 to the list herself.

00:35:52.260 Friends,

00:35:52.940 Michelle Obama is here.

00:35:54.520 Sophia,

00:35:54.920 I'm beyond thrilled

00:35:56.080 to be able to sit down

00:35:57.240 and chat with you.

00:35:58.520 We talk about it all.

00:35:59.880 Life,

00:36:00.560 love,

00:36:01.500 motherhood,

00:36:02.040 martinis.

00:36:02.920 Vodka martini,

00:36:04.220 dry,

00:36:04.820 straight up,

00:36:05.400 olives.

00:36:05.700 Ooh, olives.

00:36:06.820 Very cold.

00:36:08.220 My girl.

00:36:09.200 Barely any vermouth.

00:36:10.600 What's next?

00:36:11.800 What she's watching on TV.

00:36:13.800 I am a white lotuser.

00:36:15.320 I am a real housewives

00:36:17.060 person.

00:36:18.120 I love the dating shows.

00:36:19.900 And tennis.

00:36:20.880 I just find that

00:36:22.080 to be a bit meditative.

00:36:23.980 You do not want to miss this.

00:36:25.360 Listen to Work in Progress

00:36:26.380 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:36:28.100 Apple Podcasts,

00:36:29.200 or wherever you get

00:36:30.040 your podcasts.

00:36:31.160 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

00:36:32.980 And if you've ever felt

00:36:34.120 the weight of letting go

00:36:35.500 of people,

00:36:36.840 past versions of yourself,

00:36:38.380 or the expectations

00:36:39.720 placed on you,

00:36:41.260 this episode

00:36:42.220 is for you.

00:36:43.800 Lizzo opens up

00:36:44.840 like never before

00:36:45.780 about self-love,

00:36:47.380 transformation,

00:36:48.440 and finding real peace

00:36:50.040 in a world

00:36:50.980 that constantly

00:36:51.820 tries to define you.

00:36:53.380 It's not me anymore.

00:36:54.420 Whoever Lizzo is

00:36:55.460 to the world

00:36:55.940 is not really even me.

00:36:57.340 And that disconnect

00:36:58.120 is depressing.

00:37:00.740 The Grammy goes to

00:37:02.060 Lizzo!

00:37:05.480 I think it's also hard

00:37:06.860 when the things

00:37:07.880 that you stand for

00:37:08.860 are the same things

00:37:10.000 that you're being

00:37:10.440 scrutinized for.

00:37:11.100 The weight

00:37:11.700 that is no longer

00:37:13.000 on me

00:37:13.540 is not just

00:37:14.660 fat or physical.

00:37:16.200 I released

00:37:16.820 so much

00:37:18.680 to get to this point.

00:37:20.100 And to be honest with you,

00:37:21.100 I don't feel like

00:37:21.720 I've expressed myself

00:37:22.760 fully in the last

00:37:24.060 two years.

00:37:24.880 Listen to On Purpose

00:37:26.000 with Jay Shetty

00:37:26.800 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:37:28.640 Apple Podcasts,

00:37:29.680 or wherever you

00:37:30.280 get your podcasts.

00:37:31.100 The number one hit

00:37:35.780 true crime podcast,

00:37:37.120 The Girlfriends,

00:37:37.780 is back

00:37:38.440 with something new,

00:37:40.000 The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:37:42.400 Our first two series

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00:37:44.520 to an incredible

00:37:45.580 gang of women

00:37:46.480 who teamed up

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00:37:51.580 can be.

00:37:52.560 We're keeping this

00:37:53.420 mission alive

00:37:54.120 with The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:37:56.540 Each week,

00:37:57.440 a different woman

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00:38:00.080 to share their

00:38:00.880 incredible story

00:38:01.940 of triumph

00:38:02.800 over adversity.

00:38:04.520 Like June,

00:38:05.360 who founded

00:38:05.900 an all-female rock band

00:38:07.400 in the 1960s.

00:38:09.400 I might as well

00:38:10.440 have said,

00:38:11.160 we're gonna walk

00:38:11.920 on the moon.

00:38:12.780 But she sure showed

00:38:13.700 them who's boss

00:38:14.500 and toured the world.

00:38:16.500 They would just

00:38:17.020 be gobsmacked

00:38:18.400 and they would rush up

00:38:19.820 after the set

00:38:20.480 and say,

00:38:21.060 not bad for chicks.

00:38:23.220 So come and join

00:38:23.880 our girl gang.

00:38:26.300 Listen to

00:38:27.200 The Girlfriends Spotlight

00:38:28.460 on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:38:31.660 you get your podcasts.

00:38:45.960 A Democrat strategist

00:38:47.220 would say,

00:38:47.900 oh, Charlie,

00:38:48.340 you're weaponizing stuff.

00:38:49.180 Not you,

00:38:49.560 but like,

00:38:49.820 that's a typical thing.

00:38:51.580 But the most effective

00:38:52.420 ad of this election cycle,

00:38:53.700 the most effective ad,

00:38:54.800 you know what it is.

00:38:55.400 Yeah,

00:38:55.720 devastating.

00:38:57.600 Trump's for you,

00:38:58.680 she's for they,

00:38:59.280 them.

00:39:00.200 Devastating.

00:39:00.600 Again,

00:39:01.060 devastating.

00:39:01.760 Devastating.

00:39:02.280 Devastating.

00:39:02.680 And she didn't even react

00:39:04.080 to it,

00:39:04.480 which was even more devastating.

00:39:05.440 And let's talk about

00:39:06.100 why it was devastating.

00:39:06.780 Number one,

00:39:07.280 it was the trans issue

00:39:08.180 that was just,

00:39:08.920 you know,

00:39:09.700 monopolizing.

00:39:11.100 And this was even

00:39:12.260 more challenging

00:39:13.240 because it's issues

00:39:13.900 of people that are

00:39:14.520 incarcerated.

00:39:15.360 And illegal.

00:39:15.980 And illegal incarcerated

00:39:18.260 individuals getting

00:39:19.200 taxpayer funding.

00:39:20.200 Yes.

00:39:20.520 And gender reassignment.

00:39:22.300 And that is a 90-10,

00:39:24.020 not an 80-20.

00:39:24.720 Right.

00:39:24.740 And then she's like

00:39:25.500 enthusiastically defending it,

00:39:27.080 bragging,

00:39:27.700 being like,

00:39:28.460 I'm all for this,

00:39:29.520 I'm all for this.

00:39:30.180 And then you had the video

00:39:31.180 that it was a validator.

00:39:32.740 Brutal.

00:39:33.640 Yeah.

00:39:34.040 And so.

00:39:34.700 Tens of millions

00:39:35.160 that are brutal.

00:39:35.880 And then the targeted focus

00:39:37.720 from the Trump campaign,

00:39:39.800 next level.

00:39:40.180 And then Charlemagne

00:39:40.980 comes out on Breakfast Club

00:39:42.180 is like,

00:39:42.500 this is insane.

00:39:43.080 And they ran it

00:39:43.660 on NFL football.

00:39:45.140 Brilliant.

00:39:45.780 Yes.

00:39:46.080 And so you're trying

00:39:46.820 to reach men.

00:39:47.940 Yeah.

00:39:48.060 It's not like,

00:39:49.000 it's not.

00:39:49.720 It's a brilliant

00:39:50.160 campaign commercial.

00:39:50.920 It was brutal.

00:39:51.460 It was devastating.

00:39:51.660 It doesn't require.

00:39:52.360 By the way,

00:39:52.640 we were running around

00:39:53.380 just for the

00:39:54.380 what the hell

00:39:54.920 it's worth for you.

00:39:56.220 She was AG at the time.

00:39:57.820 She was addressing

00:39:58.420 the issue of illegal settlement.

00:40:00.060 The courts were intervening

00:40:01.880 on this topic.

00:40:02.480 She was still bragging.

00:40:02.900 But she had the video

00:40:04.460 where in the video

00:40:05.920 she was obviously

00:40:07.620 expressed support.

00:40:09.760 And so 100% right.

00:40:10.900 She was being a cheerleader

00:40:11.480 for a very unpopular thing.

00:40:12.720 It was a great,

00:40:14.880 great ad.

00:40:16.460 And I say that lightly.

00:40:17.980 But this is important.

00:40:18.840 In political ad.

00:40:19.300 And I want to make sure

00:40:20.220 it's not just that

00:40:21.420 this was like

00:40:22.200 the Willie Horton ad

00:40:23.040 of the 2024.

00:40:24.100 It wasn't just like

00:40:25.020 a Lee Atwater brilliance.

00:40:26.420 It's that it reflected truth

00:40:28.640 that the voters felt.

00:40:30.160 Yeah,

00:40:30.440 I appreciate that.

00:40:31.100 Because voters felt as if

00:40:33.340 their country was slipping away.

00:40:35.520 Now,

00:40:35.900 the Democrats have a choice.

00:40:37.680 You could say to those people,

00:40:38.700 you're racist,

00:40:39.180 you're Nazis,

00:40:39.580 you're fascist,

00:40:40.060 you're terrible.

00:40:40.740 Or you can listen to them

00:40:41.920 and be like,

00:40:42.380 why is it

00:40:43.280 that a steel worker

00:40:44.300 in Pittsburgh

00:40:44.740 who's voted Democrat

00:40:45.620 his entire life

00:40:46.540 is voting for Trump

00:40:48.180 despite all of

00:40:49.680 the stuff

00:40:50.700 that's been thrown at him?

00:40:51.580 Yeah,

00:40:51.840 and all the rhetoric

00:40:52.520 that he's thrown at us.

00:40:54.540 Yes.

00:40:54.840 In that context.

00:40:55.600 But it's a pattern

00:40:57.680 and the trans thing

00:40:58.880 is just one of those things.

00:40:59.860 But the second element

00:41:00.700 was also

00:41:01.700 what we saw

00:41:02.420 under Joe Biden

00:41:03.200 was

00:41:04.060 if you came

00:41:05.360 to the southern border

00:41:06.160 from any country

00:41:07.060 and you spoke

00:41:07.680 the magic words,

00:41:08.580 you could go to

00:41:08.980 any city you're choosing,

00:41:10.460 right?

00:41:11.100 CBP1 border app

00:41:12.160 and all of a sudden

00:41:14.020 that steel worker

00:41:14.780 in Pittsburgh

00:41:15.180 is like,

00:41:15.480 why am I paying

00:41:16.060 all these taxes?

00:41:17.040 I get it.

00:41:17.400 And I'm getting my,

00:41:18.200 I can't afford beer.

00:41:19.200 I can't afford anything.

00:41:20.880 And so I guess

00:41:22.120 my question is to you,

00:41:23.280 what are the Democrats

00:41:24.240 going to do about it?

00:41:25.080 So I went and let me,

00:41:25.900 I'm going to answer

00:41:26.420 that in a second,

00:41:27.000 but let me just,

00:41:27.980 let me,

00:41:28.300 let me pull

00:41:28.800 a few more threads.

00:41:30.200 You said 2020

00:41:31.380 is when you started

00:41:33.780 to see the Democrats

00:41:34.640 sort of advance

00:41:36.620 this notion of wokeism.

00:41:38.140 It's when the woke,

00:41:38.760 the awokening,

00:41:39.700 the awokening really started.

00:41:41.440 What was it?

00:41:41.840 You know what I'm talking about?

00:41:42.840 No, but I,

00:41:43.360 so is it,

00:41:43.920 yes,

00:41:44.260 the Latinx stuff that,

00:41:45.960 by the way,

00:41:46.520 not one person ever

00:41:47.500 in my office

00:41:48.060 has ever used the word Latinx.

00:41:49.320 So can we finally

00:41:50.020 put that to bed?

00:41:50.780 We agree.

00:41:51.280 But where did that even,

00:41:52.020 no more Latinx everybody.

00:41:53.020 Well, I just didn't even

00:41:53.640 know where it came from.

00:41:54.520 I'm like,

00:41:54.740 what are people talking about?

00:41:56.060 Was it the pronouns?

00:41:56.940 By the way,

00:41:57.500 once,

00:41:58.160 once,

00:41:58.520 you'd think California

00:41:59.760 invented the frame of the pronoun.

00:42:01.120 Not,

00:42:01.480 I mean,

00:42:01.700 literally,

00:42:02.140 I had one meeting

00:42:03.440 where people started

00:42:04.600 going around the table

00:42:05.500 of pronouns.

00:42:06.040 One.

00:42:06.940 There's been a hell of a lot

00:42:07.760 of days between 2020

00:42:09.180 and today

00:42:09.880 and one meeting.

00:42:10.980 So it's not like this is,

00:42:11.900 I'm like,

00:42:12.500 what the hell is,

00:42:13.100 why is this the biggest issue?

00:42:14.600 Well,

00:42:14.780 in corporate America,

00:42:15.620 it's everywhere.

00:42:16.260 Okay.

00:42:16.560 All right.

00:42:16.940 And college campuses.

00:42:18.520 It must call it.

00:42:19.340 See,

00:42:19.400 that's where you reside a lot

00:42:21.000 in the college campus.

00:42:21.780 So you've got to defund these schools

00:42:23.000 if they're doing the pronouns.

00:42:23.880 I'm not defunding this.

00:42:24.480 Jesus.

00:42:25.100 Okay.

00:42:25.700 And so number three,

00:42:27.700 what else?

00:42:28.160 I mean,

00:42:28.360 you started,

00:42:29.380 what was also the big wokeism thing?

00:42:31.600 I mean,

00:42:31.780 first of all,

00:42:32.360 it wasn't just,

00:42:33.000 it wasn't just the projection

00:42:34.340 of certain narratives,

00:42:35.700 which we could obviously go through.

00:42:37.000 Yeah.

00:42:37.160 But it's when policy started

00:42:38.540 to come forward.

00:42:39.280 And what kind of policy?

00:42:40.320 Hiring practices.

00:42:41.280 When it was,

00:42:41.660 there was,

00:42:42.120 we're not going to hire.

00:42:43.080 There was DEI decades ago.

00:42:44.720 Yeah.

00:42:45.440 I mean,

00:42:45.660 it was called,

00:42:46.080 it was just called outreach

00:42:47.460 and inclusion.

00:42:48.160 But we saw mass adoption,

00:42:49.780 what we saw.

00:42:50.260 And not only that,

00:42:50.880 we saw pledging of billions of dollars

00:42:53.000 of donations to racial justice

00:42:54.860 from the biggest types

00:42:56.600 of corporations imaginable.

00:42:57.860 Fair point.

00:42:58.140 And that was sort of post-George Floyd.

00:43:00.120 That's what I'm saying.

00:43:00.700 That's when,

00:43:00.980 that's when you had,

00:43:02.080 you had a combustible effect.

00:43:03.020 And was that wrong?

00:43:03.900 I mean,

00:43:04.120 to address the issue of racial,

00:43:05.600 I mean,

00:43:05.960 there was,

00:43:06.240 there's legitimate issues

00:43:07.340 as it relates to past practices.

00:43:08.660 What was insulting,

00:43:10.040 what was insulting to a lot of people

00:43:11.500 is number one,

00:43:12.020 where's the money going?

00:43:12.800 Because the top premier BLM charity

00:43:14.940 ended up being a racket.

00:43:16.120 Yeah.

00:43:16.420 Right.

00:43:16.820 With Patrice Cullors,

00:43:17.980 like where'd that hundred million bucks go?

00:43:19.820 So all of a sudden we learned that

00:43:20.900 and all these pledges of corporate dollars

00:43:22.500 were going to this woman

00:43:23.800 that's like hiring her like brother

00:43:25.640 for personal security.

00:43:26.740 Right.

00:43:27.140 And that like a lot of,

00:43:28.320 and you would even agree like that.

00:43:29.420 No,

00:43:29.540 that became like the poster child

00:43:31.280 from the broader movement.

00:43:32.620 But number two,

00:43:33.400 which I think was most important

00:43:34.780 was that it was,

00:43:36.660 it elevated then this scholarly community

00:43:39.940 that was otherwise fringe,

00:43:40.840 like Robin DiAngelo and other people

00:43:42.960 and her book,

00:43:43.660 White Fragility,

00:43:44.660 literally the entire premise of her book

00:43:46.640 is that white people need to stop

00:43:47.960 being so fragile about race.

00:43:49.280 You need to sit down and shut up

00:43:50.320 and hear how racist you are.

00:43:51.640 And she was brought on tours

00:43:53.000 to corporations across the country.

00:43:54.520 And by the way,

00:43:55.380 just so you understand,

00:43:56.240 this was a phenomenon

00:43:57.380 over months and months

00:43:58.260 and it didn't quite catch up

00:43:59.360 in time for the 2020 election.

00:44:01.200 I do believe that if you guys

00:44:02.960 would have been a little less insane

00:44:04.420 on crime in the summer of 20,

00:44:05.960 you would have completely clobbered us

00:44:07.500 in November of 20.

00:44:08.620 It was like the,

00:44:09.280 it was the riots

00:44:09.940 that even made 2020 close.

00:44:11.700 Right,

00:44:11.920 right.

00:44:12.080 But then it was the extension

00:44:13.420 of all of the,

00:44:15.380 what we would call woke stuff.

00:44:16.960 Right.

00:44:17.360 Defund police.

00:44:18.460 Yeah.

00:44:18.620 I mean,

00:44:18.800 Minneapolis literally had to hold

00:44:20.640 a special vote saying like,

00:44:22.560 should we still have a police department?

00:44:24.160 Yeah,

00:44:24.320 that's,

00:44:24.760 I mean,

00:44:25.100 I mean,

00:44:25.400 that's,

00:44:25.860 that was lunacy.

00:44:27.140 I mean,

00:44:27.320 but Governor,

00:44:27.940 I don't want to put.

00:44:28.360 By the way,

00:44:28.660 by the way,

00:44:29.580 you're talking to someone

00:44:30.180 who's never supported

00:44:31.280 the defund police movement.

00:44:32.160 I know,

00:44:32.460 but I was explicit,

00:44:33.320 but also,

00:44:34.060 you did support Prop 16 in 2020,

00:44:36.380 which would have legalized

00:44:37.240 racial prejudice,

00:44:40.200 right?

00:44:40.400 Prop 16 literally would,

00:44:41.860 and it got to go back

00:44:42.700 to my,

00:44:43.240 you know,

00:44:43.880 you're smart.

00:44:44.580 Prop 16.

00:44:45.500 I taught 960 SAT,

00:44:46.880 so a little humility.

00:44:47.740 You're the governor

00:44:48.340 of the largest state

00:44:49.100 in the country.

00:44:49.740 No,

00:44:49.840 no,

00:44:49.900 no.

00:44:50.100 I saw your debate

00:44:50.960 against DeSantis.

00:44:51.720 You're good at this stuff.

00:44:52.400 You know what I'm talking about.

00:44:53.020 Prop 16 would have had

00:44:54.380 legalized racial prejudice,

00:44:56.300 which would,

00:44:56.640 and it got defeated

00:44:57.620 by 16 points

00:44:58.440 despite all the institutions.

00:45:00.180 So you're asking me

00:45:00.940 what did wokeism look like

00:45:02.080 when California,

00:45:03.280 when all the institutions,

00:45:04.160 yourself included,

00:45:05.140 with all due respect,

00:45:06.220 embraced this insane ballot measure.

00:45:09.380 Guess what?

00:45:09.740 Even the people of California

00:45:10.920 didn't want racial discrimination.

00:45:12.620 Well,

00:45:12.900 I remember California

00:45:13.780 since 1996

00:45:14.660 has had Prop 209,

00:45:15.980 so the affirmative action case

00:45:17.020 came from the Supreme Court

00:45:17.920 as well as institutions

00:45:19.140 of higher learning

00:45:19.660 had no impact on California.

00:45:21.860 So we've,

00:45:22.420 actually,

00:45:22.680 it's an interesting,

00:45:23.320 California also codified

00:45:24.480 as a constitutional amendment

00:45:26.180 marriage between a man

00:45:27.820 and a woman.

00:45:29.060 And that was in the 2000s.

00:45:30.780 So California runs

00:45:32.220 an interesting

00:45:32.980 sort of contract trends.

00:45:33.180 I found it to be illuminating,

00:45:34.600 though,

00:45:34.880 that despite,

00:45:35.740 I mean,

00:45:35.900 there was really like

00:45:36.640 no opposition.

00:45:37.440 It was like

00:45:37.840 a couple hundred

00:45:38.580 like Asian activists.

00:45:39.860 I appreciate it.

00:45:39.880 But I just want to say,

00:45:41.680 you asked the question,

00:45:42.740 what did wokeism look like?

00:45:44.080 Prop 16 in California

00:45:45.580 that would have had

00:45:46.500 legalized racial discrimination.

00:45:48.320 That was not a major,

00:45:49.620 there was a broader

00:45:50.400 national narrative.

00:45:51.360 I'm just bringing it home to you

00:45:52.760 because there were hundreds

00:45:53.840 of such ballot referendums,

00:45:55.240 right?

00:45:55.440 There was,

00:45:56.100 you know,

00:45:56.320 city council meetings

00:45:57.280 where they said

00:45:57.740 the white people

00:45:58.300 aren't allowed here,

00:45:59.080 right?

00:45:59.780 That's not good.

00:46:00.840 No,

00:46:01.060 it's not good.

00:46:01.880 And so what ends up happening

00:46:04.300 is a broader question

00:46:05.640 of sensible,

00:46:07.020 not racist suburban moms

00:46:08.680 that are like,

00:46:09.640 wait a second,

00:46:10.600 I have a eight-year-old white son.

00:46:12.560 Are you trying to say

00:46:13.100 he's a racist?

00:46:14.020 Yeah.

00:46:14.360 And it creates a backlash

00:46:16.140 that then bubbles up,

00:46:17.720 right?

00:46:18.060 I appreciate the perspective.

00:46:20.220 And no,

00:46:20.660 I appreciate not just

00:46:21.660 the perspective,

00:46:22.320 I totally appreciate

00:46:23.360 what you just said

00:46:24.240 as an explicit statement of fact

00:46:26.840 to make an eight-year-old

00:46:28.020 feel like they're racist

00:46:28.860 is absurd and outrageous.

00:46:30.340 But governor,

00:46:30.780 with all the respect

00:46:31.140 that's happening right now

00:46:32.120 in California public schools.

00:46:33.300 Well,

00:46:34.020 we also-

00:46:34.780 And I'm not trying

00:46:35.180 to drill you on here.

00:46:35.760 I'm just being honest.

00:46:36.400 Like you could say that,

00:46:37.520 but like maybe you should

00:46:38.560 like convene a special session

00:46:39.800 and say like no more,

00:46:41.740 you know,

00:46:42.800 race-based teaching

00:46:44.220 against white people

00:46:45.520 in the schools of California

00:46:46.980 or Asians.

00:46:48.040 I'm just saying though

00:46:48.600 that like this is not

00:46:49.720 a conjecture,

00:46:50.580 it's not a hypothetical,

00:46:51.840 it is embedded

00:46:52.860 into the DNA

00:46:53.680 of the Democrat Party.

00:46:54.640 Yeah,

00:46:54.800 okay.

00:46:55.120 I appreciate it.

00:46:55.840 I mean,

00:46:55.940 the whole CRT stuff.

00:46:57.740 Yes.

00:46:58.060 I mean,

00:46:58.240 I was trying to find it.

00:47:00.360 You think we have CRT

00:47:01.860 in K-12 education?

00:47:02.660 You have the principles of it.

00:47:03.800 I mean,

00:47:03.940 of course,

00:47:04.260 critical theory

00:47:04.860 is like a PhD level course

00:47:06.440 taught by Derek Bell

00:47:07.760 and Kimberly Crenshaw.

00:47:09.140 But the same way

00:47:09.940 that you have advanced physics

00:47:11.060 and the theories of physics

00:47:12.320 in eighth grade,

00:47:13.620 it's like saying

00:47:14.220 you don't have the elements of it.

00:47:15.460 But for example,

00:47:16.820 I mean,

00:47:17.320 it's very simple.

00:47:18.020 But at least that explains why

00:47:19.160 because I'm just trying to find it.

00:47:20.840 We know of over

00:47:21.700 at least 50 schools

00:47:23.160 in California

00:47:23.900 that do things

00:47:24.360 called privilege walks.

00:47:25.320 Do you know what

00:47:25.540 privilege walks are?

00:47:26.280 What are privilege walks?

00:47:26.840 Where they make kids

00:47:27.780 walk ahead

00:47:28.720 based on certain questions

00:47:30.340 and they try to make a point

00:47:31.480 saying,

00:47:31.840 well,

00:47:31.900 see,

00:47:32.100 the white people are ahead,

00:47:33.060 they must have white privilege.

00:47:34.020 Okay,

00:47:34.440 I get it.

00:47:35.280 Yeah,

00:47:35.460 no.

00:47:36.100 See,

00:47:36.620 all right,

00:47:36.960 I got to get back

00:47:37.560 into the classroom.

00:47:39.160 No,

00:47:39.340 you got to get your-

00:47:40.100 I got six million kids.

00:47:41.040 You got to get your educations off.

00:47:42.300 1,050 school districts,

00:47:44.260 the largest school system

00:47:45.220 on planet Earth.

00:47:46.100 No,

00:47:46.220 but no excuse

00:47:46.860 because these things

00:47:47.620 are important.

00:47:48.120 And by the way,

00:47:48.980 it's the reason

00:47:49.780 we're having this conversation.

00:47:51.540 This is very illuminating

00:47:52.840 and helpful to me

00:47:53.480 to understand

00:47:54.200 sort of the animus.

00:47:55.360 What is it about,

00:47:56.480 you know,

00:47:56.760 that animus?

00:47:57.220 I joke with people.

00:47:58.300 I say,

00:47:58.500 you guys don't like DEI,

00:48:00.300 CRT,

00:48:01.200 ESG,

00:48:02.200 DOJ,

00:48:03.020 FBI,

00:48:03.700 IRS.

00:48:04.020 It's all the acronyms.

00:48:04.580 It's all the damn

00:48:05.160 three-letter acronyms.

00:48:06.140 What the hell's the issue?

00:48:07.400 What's going on with all that?

00:48:09.080 You know,

00:48:09.500 I can,

00:48:10.040 you missed some.

00:48:10.980 Which ones?

00:48:11.580 Which others?

00:48:11.980 What have I missed?

00:48:12.960 EPA?

00:48:13.700 Of course,

00:48:14.040 you don't like,

00:48:14.520 yeah,

00:48:14.680 you can't stand EPA.

00:48:15.340 The Employment Prevention Agency.

00:48:16.740 Jeez,

00:48:17.120 oh,

00:48:17.340 okay.

00:48:17.660 You're about to get that,

00:48:18.820 65%.

00:48:19.740 That's what Lee is calling for.

00:48:21.080 look,

00:48:21.920 I mean,

00:48:22.520 so it's not just acronyms

00:48:24.920 that we dislike for the record,

00:48:26.180 but it's what they-

00:48:27.720 Feels like that sometimes.

00:48:29.060 I mean,

00:48:29.340 how about the book ban stuff?

00:48:30.640 On a serious note,

00:48:31.340 4,240 books or titles,

00:48:35.100 libraries and schools

00:48:35.920 were banned in 2023.

00:48:38.380 Is that not,

00:48:39.320 as a conservative?

00:48:40.700 Well,

00:48:40.860 it depends.

00:48:41.260 I think we can both agree

00:48:43.060 pornography should not be taught

00:48:44.220 to a nine-year-old.

00:48:44.660 Fair point.

00:48:45.240 Okay,

00:48:45.580 so that's a book ban.

00:48:46.280 All right.

00:48:46.820 Well,

00:48:47.060 there are some other books.

00:48:48.060 Hold on,

00:48:48.100 no,

00:48:48.160 no,

00:48:48.360 no,

00:48:48.420 that was the Moms for Liberty

00:48:50.340 contention.

00:48:50.860 Time out.

00:48:51.420 Like,

00:48:51.860 I agree on Bill O'Reilly.

00:48:52.740 The Moms for Liberty movement

00:48:53.840 that you made a big thing of

00:48:55.220 was just no porn

00:48:56.400 to 10-year-olds.

00:48:57.540 Yeah.

00:48:57.820 We agree.

00:48:58.240 So those books should be banned.

00:48:59.680 Well,

00:48:59.960 okay.

00:49:00.200 So what we should do right now

00:49:01.200 is every California school

00:49:02.480 that has porn in their library

00:49:04.480 should be kicked out.

00:49:05.520 Does that include the Bible?

00:49:07.140 Well,

00:49:07.440 I wouldn't say

00:49:08.180 the Song of Solomon

00:49:09.080 is porn.

00:49:09.660 No,

00:49:09.860 but I mean,

00:49:10.180 some have made that point.

00:49:11.460 Is that a fair point?

00:49:12.440 I don't think that's fair at all.

00:49:13.940 And as a man of faith,

00:49:15.020 and I deeply admire that about you.

00:49:16.520 Thank you.

00:49:17.040 Yes,

00:49:17.320 but no,

00:49:17.760 I mean,

00:49:18.020 again,

00:49:18.660 the Song of Solomon

00:49:19.680 is rather risque.

00:49:20.800 No,

00:49:21.080 it's very.

00:49:21.580 What we're talking about

00:49:22.060 in these books

00:49:22.560 is not just the words,

00:49:23.620 it's also the images.

00:49:24.660 And again,

00:49:25.040 your audience can look

00:49:25.900 at the images themselves.

00:49:27.240 It's highly graphic,

00:49:28.520 but again,

00:49:29.240 what I-

00:49:29.520 But it seems a banning binge.

00:49:31.000 I mean,

00:49:31.300 at next level,

00:49:32.040 sort of cancel culture.

00:49:33.720 But why do you think

00:49:34.620 moms are doing that?

00:49:35.620 Do you think it's because

00:49:36.360 they want to have mind control

00:49:37.700 or do you think

00:49:38.200 that they have come across

00:49:39.240 incident of incident

00:49:40.640 of highly provocative material?

00:49:42.680 I love moms,

00:49:43.440 but this moms,

00:49:44.140 I mean,

00:49:44.400 we don't have to get

00:49:45.340 into Moms for Liberty.

00:49:46.180 It seems that-

00:49:46.620 I mean,

00:49:46.640 you brought up the book bans,

00:49:47.220 though.

00:49:47.620 I mean,

00:49:47.980 deeply organized

00:49:48.920 for a larger agenda,

00:49:51.460 but that's my humble opinion.

00:49:52.700 No, but I-

00:49:53.360 But for-

00:49:54.020 But let me just,

00:49:54.820 you know,

00:49:55.140 kind of complete the point

00:49:56.180 is that it's easy

00:49:58.000 to just call it

00:49:58.520 kind of a book ban,

00:49:59.380 but when you actually

00:49:59.900 have to read some of these books,

00:50:01.100 it will take your breath away

00:50:02.000 of some of this stuff, right?

00:50:03.280 You're like,

00:50:03.560 okay, you know,

00:50:04.000 we're teaching a 10-year-old

00:50:04.800 how to put a condom on.

00:50:05.880 I know.

00:50:06.140 I just have a problem with,

00:50:07.100 you know,

00:50:07.460 who the hell's going to decide

00:50:08.660 that government?

00:50:09.360 I mean,

00:50:09.640 Doron DeSantis is going to decide

00:50:10.840 what I can read or say

00:50:11.760 in the boardroom

00:50:12.800 in the classroom.

00:50:13.600 This is the exercise

00:50:14.240 of politics, though.

00:50:15.220 The exercise of politics

00:50:16.340 is the highest form of community

00:50:17.700 because it blends morality

00:50:18.800 and sociability.

00:50:20.000 So what we do

00:50:20.500 is we have discussion

00:50:21.460 and elections

00:50:22.000 and we have boards

00:50:22.860 and commissions, right?

00:50:24.020 And we as a people say,

00:50:25.060 okay,

00:50:25.680 no porn for 10-year-olds.

00:50:27.100 Yeah.

00:50:27.300 And that's politics, right?

00:50:28.200 I mean,

00:50:28.320 I'm not saying that

00:50:29.140 there's like some sort of-

00:50:30.360 We got a stress test

00:50:31.240 whether the Bible's included in that.

00:50:32.580 I don't even want to go forward

00:50:34.000 anymore on this.

00:50:35.160 No, it's tough,

00:50:35.760 but this becomes a dialectic.

00:50:38.280 I have heard a lot.

00:50:39.360 I've never heard.

00:50:40.180 That's interesting, though.

00:50:41.140 No, I mean,

00:50:41.680 it's a provocative.

00:50:43.300 I don't think it's fair.

00:50:44.220 Again, I deeply don't mean to offend.

00:50:46.040 By the way,

00:50:46.520 Father Kaz would be offended with me.

00:50:48.480 If you think the Bible's pornographic,

00:50:49.680 we have a whole-

00:50:50.480 No, but there's just-

00:50:51.040 Most of these books

00:50:52.960 are quote-unquote

00:50:53.500 not pornographic.

00:50:54.060 There's sections

00:50:54.820 that can offend-

00:50:56.160 Of images

00:50:57.000 that are very violated

00:50:58.260 to young kids.

00:50:58.800 Some we would agree on that.

00:51:00.140 I don't think 4,000 books.

00:51:01.660 If you want to learn, Governor,

00:51:02.920 and I'm happy

00:51:03.500 that there is a movement

00:51:04.520 of moms that is not-

00:51:06.260 that's growing

00:51:06.880 where they feel as if

00:51:07.940 our kids are being hyper-sexualized.

00:51:10.060 And I agree with them

00:51:11.020 that they are being-

00:51:11.960 that they have to hear topics-

00:51:13.360 Social media?

00:51:14.440 Well, both in the social media

00:51:15.820 and the classroom.

00:51:16.300 In particular.

00:51:16.920 And I mean, look, again,

00:51:18.260 you signed a law

00:51:19.300 where school districts

00:51:20.240 can't even tell parents

00:51:21.300 if their kids are trans.

00:51:22.260 Not true.

00:51:23.260 Okay, then-

00:51:24.020 Okay, then-

00:51:24.860 No, they can.

00:51:25.820 They just can't get fired

00:51:26.660 for not doing that.

00:51:27.820 And it wasn't just trans.

00:51:28.820 They can't get fired

00:51:29.080 for not doing that.

00:51:29.640 There was-

00:51:30.420 The law was explicit,

00:51:31.960 said you can't be fired

00:51:34.140 for not snitching on a kid,

00:51:37.500 not just for being trans,

00:51:38.740 for being gay.

00:51:40.140 And my point is,

00:51:41.300 how in the hell-

00:51:42.180 But shouldn't the parents know?

00:51:43.420 They have every-

00:51:43.980 Wait, is telling parents snitching?

00:51:45.380 No.

00:51:45.960 The teachers themselves

00:51:47.900 have the right-

00:51:48.940 The law doesn't-

00:51:49.960 They can do that.

00:51:51.160 They can do that.

00:51:51.680 We're not saying

00:51:52.160 you can't do that.

00:51:53.100 We're saying

00:51:53.460 you shouldn't be fired

00:51:54.640 if you choose not to say

00:51:56.180 Johnny was talking about

00:51:57.900 liking some other boy

00:51:59.840 or something.

00:51:59.860 That's a charitable reading.

00:52:00.700 The other way-

00:52:01.220 It's not charitable.

00:52:01.600 It's actually-

00:52:02.040 The freedom not to snitch.

00:52:03.640 Let me tell you

00:52:04.160 the other way to say this,

00:52:05.100 that a teacher,

00:52:06.320 of course,

00:52:06.960 should be fired

00:52:07.880 if you don't notify

00:52:09.460 a parent of what's happening

00:52:10.820 to their kid.

00:52:11.860 Of course,

00:52:12.460 they should be terminated

00:52:13.240 for that.

00:52:13.840 On health and safety.

00:52:14.960 Shouldn't they be teaching?

00:52:15.940 I want these kids to teach.

00:52:17.000 I want these teachers to teach.

00:52:18.480 And by the way,

00:52:18.840 if they feel like

00:52:19.480 the health or safety of the kid,

00:52:20.700 they have a responsibility

00:52:21.840 to communicate.

00:52:22.700 They still can.

00:52:23.460 By the way,

00:52:24.040 we're not telling

00:52:24.700 these teachers they can't.

00:52:26.120 We're saying

00:52:26.440 they won't be fired

00:52:27.460 if they don't look around

00:52:29.300 and say in the recess

00:52:30.120 there were two boys.

00:52:31.360 Why didn't you see that?

00:52:32.300 You're fired.

00:52:33.140 You should have said something

00:52:34.040 because they're talking about-

00:52:35.140 You're talking about two different things.

00:52:36.120 But there, of course,

00:52:37.160 should be a penalty measure,

00:52:39.000 whether it be termination

00:52:39.840 or whatever,

00:52:40.640 if a teacher withholds information

00:52:42.440 from a parent.

00:52:43.340 Because what you're saying

00:52:43.920 is that there's no way

00:52:44.800 to hold them accountable.

00:52:45.740 So you're saying-

00:52:46.400 Accountable to what, though?

00:52:47.660 Accountable to two kids

00:52:48.980 talking about the fact that-

00:52:50.660 This is a-

00:52:51.220 Talking about subject matter.

00:52:53.060 All of a sudden now

00:52:53.720 we have to have teachers

00:52:54.640 policing speech

00:52:56.400 or conversations.

00:52:57.100 I don't think you would

00:52:57.600 even agree, Governor.

00:52:58.560 That is an over-extreme example.

00:53:00.320 What we're talking about-

00:53:01.100 No, but the extreme example,

00:53:02.340 this was a solution

00:53:03.140 in search of a problem.

00:53:03.880 What we're talking about

00:53:04.200 is if,

00:53:04.780 which happens a lot,

00:53:05.780 unfortunately,

00:53:06.700 is if a young girl

00:53:07.660 says that,

00:53:08.560 hey, I want to transition

00:53:09.640 and the teacher

00:53:11.000 accommodates and affirms it

00:53:12.440 and the parent

00:53:13.240 doesn't even know.

00:53:13.940 I have met parents

00:53:14.860 like that in the state.

00:53:15.440 I heard Trump

00:53:15.940 and then they come back

00:53:16.880 and they're a boy or something.

00:53:17.920 There's so much extreme

00:53:18.860 work in this space.

00:53:18.940 I will say,

00:53:19.700 and we don't have to wrestle

00:53:21.200 too much on this topic,

00:53:22.440 but you guys will lose

00:53:23.480 on these topics.

00:53:24.140 And you might disagree.

00:53:24.780 But I'm one of those guys

00:53:27.020 and, Charlie,

00:53:27.600 I appreciate,

00:53:28.080 and I, by the way,

00:53:29.140 appreciate the civility

00:53:30.040 which we're engaged

00:53:30.660 in this conversation sincerely.

00:53:32.940 I don't mind losing.

00:53:34.100 Sometimes you lose on principle.

00:53:35.400 It's one of those things.

00:53:36.640 Everything's not political

00:53:37.680 is the point.

00:53:38.660 And sometimes the principle,

00:53:39.940 and by the way,

00:53:40.860 mad respect for you

00:53:41.880 on abortion

00:53:42.380 and same-sex marriage.

00:53:43.580 I hold views

00:53:43.840 where the American people

00:53:44.860 don't agree with me.

00:53:45.580 Exactly.

00:53:46.120 But I admire that on principle.

00:53:48.380 But for me,

00:53:48.920 it's not just political.

00:53:50.120 And I appreciate

00:53:50.660 you making that point.

00:53:52.080 And I deeply am mindful

00:53:53.300 of the politics of this,

00:53:54.680 which are very unhelpful.

00:53:56.820 Personally,

00:53:57.580 it's unhelpful.

00:53:58.860 More broadly,

00:53:59.740 professionally,

00:54:00.240 the Democratic Party

00:54:01.040 and our brand.

00:54:01.820 And one of the reasons,

00:54:02.660 to your point,

00:54:03.480 the Democratic Party brand

00:54:04.680 has just been crushed.

00:54:06.820 And so your self-awareness

00:54:09.240 is helpful to know

00:54:10.920 because it is deeply unpopular.

00:54:12.500 And I think that

00:54:13.340 that is an ascendant

00:54:14.920 political force

00:54:15.900 that is not going away.

00:54:18.360 No, I appreciate.

00:54:19.080 But I also appreciate

00:54:19.840 you hold deeply

00:54:21.080 unpopular beliefs as well.

00:54:22.100 Of course I do.

00:54:22.600 But you're not running for office.

00:54:24.620 I'm not going to run

00:54:25.200 for president as a moderate.

00:54:26.360 What are you running for office?

00:54:28.460 I'm not running for anything.

00:54:29.240 I saw a poll in Arizona

00:54:30.720 that you were like one or two.

00:54:32.280 You have the highest name ID

00:54:33.440 and a favorability.

00:54:34.780 When are you running?

00:54:35.360 Is that what this is all about?

00:54:36.760 No, it's definitely not about it.

00:54:37.720 By the way,

00:54:37.740 you're not even old enough

00:54:38.540 to be president.

00:54:39.340 You're only 31 years old.

00:54:40.460 You've got to be...

00:54:41.080 I mean, you and AOC.

00:54:42.140 I'm not running for anything.

00:54:42.620 You're going to run against AOC.

00:54:43.780 I'm running for,

00:54:44.700 you know,

00:54:45.120 head of,

00:54:45.800 you know,

00:54:45.940 most popular TikToker.

00:54:48.080 But no,

00:54:49.240 I'm not running for anything.

00:54:50.240 By the way,

00:54:50.580 should we ban TikTok?

00:54:51.760 No, we shouldn't.

00:54:52.420 I used to say that.

00:54:53.320 And then I started this.

00:54:53.660 Yeah, why did you change your position?

00:54:54.920 Because it was politically

00:54:55.560 or Trump told you to?

00:54:57.200 Well, no,

00:54:57.600 it definitely wasn't.

00:54:58.040 Trump,

00:54:58.340 I sent out a tweet

00:54:59.280 and I'm perfectly honest about this.

00:55:01.240 I think you'd respect this

00:55:02.240 is that I was so mad at them

00:55:03.300 because they would ban me

00:55:03.960 all the time.

00:55:04.680 And I sent out a tweet saying like,

00:55:06.140 hey,

00:55:06.440 if you guys are really for free speech

00:55:08.180 as a creator,

00:55:09.540 like, let's see it.

00:55:10.380 Get a call from TikTok

00:55:11.260 a couple hours later.

00:55:12.480 We're going to show you

00:55:13.140 that we're for free speech.

00:55:14.080 We're going to show you

00:55:14.560 the power of the platform.

00:55:15.640 Right.

00:55:16.020 And I saw real changes

00:55:17.500 where our campus interactions

00:55:19.020 went from being banned

00:55:20.060 to now well over

00:55:21.260 two and a half billion views

00:55:22.420 on TikTok.

00:55:23.580 And so I wouldn't say expedient,

00:55:25.540 I'd say impact.

00:55:26.960 And also they now

00:55:28.660 have changed

00:55:29.240 some of their speech codes.

00:55:30.280 They've changed some of their

00:55:31.120 rules.

00:55:31.900 You can,

00:55:32.480 you,

00:55:32.600 you,

00:55:32.820 hey,

00:55:33.660 enough for your son.

00:55:34.860 Your son finds my content somehow.

00:55:37.180 Look,

00:55:37.480 I used TikTok.

00:55:38.320 I was just out there.

00:55:39.020 I wasn't out there

00:55:39.700 trying to champion the ban.

00:55:41.180 It's a reversal.

00:55:41.860 I just love this conversion.

00:55:42.800 It's a hell of a conversion.

00:55:44.080 Yeah, hey,

00:55:44.560 I'm,

00:55:44.900 I'm,

00:55:45.300 I'm open about it.

00:55:46.440 I appreciate it.

00:55:53.860 There's a type of soil

00:55:55.380 in Mississippi

00:55:56.080 called Yazoo clay.

00:55:58.100 It's thick,

00:55:59.300 burnt orange,

00:56:00.200 and it's got a reputation.

00:56:02.180 It's terrible,

00:56:02.940 terrible dirt.

00:56:03.800 Yazoo clay

00:56:04.560 eats everything.

00:56:06.200 So things that get buried there

00:56:07.740 tend to stay buried.

00:56:09.400 Until

00:56:09.860 they're not.

00:56:10.940 In 2012,

00:56:12.460 construction crews

00:56:13.340 at Mississippi's

00:56:14.300 biggest hospital

00:56:15.360 made a shocking discovery.

00:56:17.360 7,000 bodies

00:56:19.580 out there

00:56:20.360 or more.

00:56:21.120 All former patients

00:56:22.220 of the old state asylum.

00:56:24.340 And nobody

00:56:25.000 knew they were there.

00:56:26.240 It was my family's

00:56:27.500 mystery.

00:56:28.520 But in this corner

00:56:29.300 of the South,

00:56:30.200 it's not just the soil

00:56:31.600 that keeps secrets.

00:56:32.960 Nobody talks about it.

00:56:34.640 Nobody has any information.

00:56:35.940 When you peel back

00:56:37.060 the layers

00:56:37.580 of Mississippi's

00:56:38.500 Yazoo clay,

00:56:39.600 nothing's ever

00:56:40.380 as simple as you think.

00:56:41.780 The story is

00:56:42.700 much more

00:56:44.100 complicated

00:56:45.020 and nuanced

00:56:46.180 than that.

00:56:47.540 I'm Larison Campbell.

00:56:48.960 Listen to Under Yazoo Clay

00:56:50.340 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:56:52.300 Apple Podcasts,

00:56:53.380 or wherever

00:56:54.180 you get your podcasts.

00:56:56.460 Hi friends.

00:56:58.100 Sophia Bush here,

00:56:59.180 host of

00:56:59.740 Work in Progress.

00:57:00.900 This week,

00:57:01.540 we had such

00:57:02.380 a special guest

00:57:03.560 on the podcast.

00:57:04.620 My Forever Flotus,

00:57:07.400 a mentor,

00:57:08.280 a friend,

00:57:08.860 a wife,

00:57:09.380 a mother,

00:57:09.860 an author,

00:57:10.920 attorney,

00:57:11.580 advocate,

00:57:12.140 television producer,

00:57:13.040 and now

00:57:13.940 she adds

00:57:14.900 podcast host

00:57:15.840 to the list herself.

00:57:17.680 Friends,

00:57:18.420 Michelle Obama

00:57:19.240 is here.

00:57:20.000 Sophia,

00:57:20.400 I'm beyond thrilled

00:57:21.560 to be able to sit down

00:57:22.720 and chat with you.

00:57:24.000 We talk about it all.

00:57:25.360 Life,

00:57:26.040 love,

00:57:26.980 motherhood,

00:57:27.540 martinis.

00:57:28.400 Vodka martini,

00:57:29.700 dry,

00:57:30.320 straight up,

00:57:30.900 olives.

00:57:31.180 Ooh, olives.

00:57:32.340 Very cold.

00:57:33.700 My girl.

00:57:34.620 Barely any vermouth.

00:57:36.100 What's next?

00:57:37.300 What she's watching

00:57:38.220 on TV.

00:57:39.300 I am a white lotuser.

00:57:40.820 I am a real housewives

00:57:42.560 person.

00:57:43.600 I love the dating shows.

00:57:45.400 And tennis.

00:57:46.360 I just find that

00:57:47.560 to be a bit meditative.

00:57:49.460 You do not want

00:57:49.980 to miss this.

00:57:50.840 Listen to Work in Progress

00:57:51.860 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:57:53.600 Apple Podcasts,

00:57:54.680 or wherever you get

00:57:55.520 your podcasts.

00:57:56.220 The number one hit

00:58:01.160 true crime podcast,

00:58:02.500 The Girlfriends,

00:58:03.140 is back

00:58:03.820 with something new,

00:58:05.360 The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:58:07.740 Our first two series

00:58:09.140 introduce you

00:58:09.880 to an incredible

00:58:10.960 gang of women

00:58:11.860 who teamed up

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00:58:17.920 We're keeping this mission

00:58:19.060 alive with

00:58:19.780 The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:58:21.120 Each week,

00:58:22.820 a different woman

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00:58:25.600 to share their

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00:58:29.880 Like June,

00:58:30.740 who founded

00:58:31.280 an all-female rock band

00:58:32.780 in the 1960s.

00:58:34.780 I might as well

00:58:35.820 have said,

00:58:36.520 we're going to walk

00:58:37.300 on the moon.

00:58:38.140 But she sure showed

00:58:39.080 them who's boss

00:58:39.880 and toured the world.

00:58:41.880 They would just

00:58:42.400 be gobsmacked

00:58:43.780 and they would rush up

00:58:45.200 after the set

00:58:45.860 and say,

00:58:46.440 not bad for chicks.

00:58:48.600 So come and join

00:58:49.240 our girl gang.

00:58:51.560 Listen to

00:58:52.560 The Girlfriends Spotlight

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00:59:04.760 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

00:59:06.640 And if you've ever felt

00:59:07.800 the weight of letting go

00:59:09.180 of people,

00:59:10.500 past versions of yourself,

00:59:12.040 or the expectations

00:59:13.380 placed on you,

00:59:14.660 this episode

00:59:15.880 is for you.

00:59:17.460 Lizzo opens up

00:59:18.500 like never before

00:59:19.440 about self-love,

00:59:20.600 transformation,

00:59:22.120 and finding real peace

00:59:23.700 in a world

00:59:24.640 that constantly

00:59:25.480 tries to define you.

00:59:27.020 It's not me anymore.

00:59:28.240 Whoever Lizzo is

00:59:29.120 to the world

00:59:29.600 is not really even me.

00:59:30.940 And that disconnect

00:59:31.780 is depressing.

00:59:34.380 The Grammy goes to

00:59:35.760 Lizzo!

00:59:39.040 I think it's also hard

00:59:40.520 when the things

00:59:41.540 that you stand for

00:59:42.540 are the same things

00:59:43.660 that you're being

00:59:44.100 scrutinized for.

00:59:44.720 The weight

00:59:45.360 that is no longer

00:59:46.660 on me

00:59:47.200 is not just

00:59:48.320 fat or physical.

00:59:49.880 I released

00:59:50.500 so much

00:59:52.360 to get to this point.

00:59:53.820 And to be honest

00:59:54.440 with you,

00:59:54.840 I don't feel like

00:59:55.400 I've expressed myself

00:59:56.420 fully in the last

00:59:57.720 two years.

00:59:58.500 Listen to On Purpose

00:59:59.660 with Jay Shetty

01:00:00.440 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:00:02.320 Apple Podcasts,

01:00:03.340 or wherever you get

01:00:04.180 your podcasts.

01:00:04.740 Back to the Democratic Party.

01:00:12.120 We talk about

01:00:12.560 we're not

01:00:13.660 aligned with them.

01:00:14.280 They don't trust us.

01:00:15.060 I think we have

01:00:15.360 31 favorability,

01:00:16.620 57% unfavorability.

01:00:17.760 I'm surprised

01:00:17.980 it's that high, Governor.

01:00:18.700 And by the way,

01:00:19.240 thank you,

01:00:19.580 31% favorability

01:00:21.280 is not good enough.

01:00:22.500 So, I mean,

01:00:23.140 back to just the basics.

01:00:25.340 So you talked about

01:00:26.440 wokeism broadly defined.

01:00:28.160 We talked about

01:00:28.560 some specific examples

01:00:30.020 of that.

01:00:31.140 You began on the transport,

01:00:32.480 which is interesting

01:00:33.020 and I respect

01:00:33.940 and appreciate

01:00:34.460 I want you to speak out

01:00:35.680 against that one, Governor.

01:00:36.280 I appreciate it.

01:00:36.800 Well, we just did

01:00:37.540 with all of you.

01:00:38.920 I mean, and I've been,

01:00:39.660 by the way,

01:00:39.880 I've been saying that

01:00:40.800 so interestingly

01:00:41.760 it gets picked up

01:00:43.260 and that maybe goes

01:00:44.020 to the question.

01:00:45.980 We live in these

01:00:46.940 filter bubbles.

01:00:47.980 We're talking to ourselves.

01:00:49.620 We're in these sort of,

01:00:50.540 yeah, it's Newsmax,

01:00:51.920 One American News, Fox,

01:00:53.160 and then it gets into

01:00:54.080 all the stuff

01:00:54.760 that you guys are doing

01:00:55.640 and everybody else.

01:00:56.460 And meanwhile,

01:00:57.040 I'm safe over here

01:00:58.160 at MSNBC and CNN

01:00:59.720 reading the New York Times,

01:01:01.980 feeling really great

01:01:02.740 about things

01:01:03.420 and having a nice

01:01:04.360 glass of Chardonnay,

01:01:05.380 listening to Rachel Maddow,

01:01:06.800 self-medicating

01:01:07.840 and just going,

01:01:08.680 yes, yes, yes.

01:01:09.020 At the French laundry,

01:01:09.840 of course.

01:01:09.860 Yeah, at the French,

01:01:10.560 that's, of course,

01:01:11.080 the only place I eat

01:01:12.160 and, you know.

01:01:12.940 Can you get me a table?

01:01:13.580 I'm struggling.

01:01:14.140 Take out and the whole thing.

01:01:15.800 Well, I should have been

01:01:16.260 at Applebee's.

01:01:16.980 I get it.

01:01:17.480 Applebee's America.

01:01:18.440 I read the books.

01:01:18.740 Come on, man.

01:01:19.420 Come on.

01:01:19.920 In-N-Out Burger.

01:01:20.640 Be with the people.

01:01:21.320 Jesus Christ.

01:01:21.480 And here's a guy

01:01:21.980 who makes 25 times

01:01:23.560 more money than I do

01:01:24.580 sitting here with a jacket

01:01:27.360 and I'm sitting here

01:01:28.120 with a senior t-shirt.

01:01:28.500 That's right.

01:01:28.980 And you control

01:01:29.620 the fifth largest economy

01:01:30.720 on the planet.

01:01:31.480 We don't control.

01:01:32.120 The people control

01:01:32.880 the fifth largest economy.

01:01:34.080 And by the way,

01:01:34.540 proud that you know

01:01:35.640 it's a $3.89 trillion economy.

01:01:37.100 With a declining population.

01:01:38.520 No, the population

01:01:39.380 went up last year.

01:01:40.520 The population went up last year.

01:01:41.860 Yeah, because of the illegal border.

01:01:42.920 We'll talk about that later.

01:01:43.580 I got a whole thing.

01:01:44.600 That's just factually untrue

01:01:45.800 in that respect.

01:01:46.200 $290,000 net last year.

01:01:47.360 By the way,

01:01:48.160 we'll talk about that.

01:01:48.560 394 National Guard

01:01:50.220 that I put down at the border

01:01:51.260 six years ago.

01:01:52.660 You should be championing that

01:01:53.920 as governor of California.

01:01:55.740 394 we have down at the border.

01:01:57.020 We've been focused on fentanyl.

01:01:58.660 I've been working on this.

01:01:59.660 But anyway,

01:01:59.900 you're getting somewhere complimentary.

01:02:01.400 Yeah, I was.

01:02:02.240 Going back to...

01:02:03.240 You're talking about

01:02:03.940 your whining and dining

01:02:05.320 at French Laundry.

01:02:06.140 Yes.

01:02:06.660 I was talking about

01:02:07.320 the importance of never.

01:02:10.780 Well, I can't help you

01:02:12.880 with a reservation.

01:02:13.300 I get such a kick

01:02:14.040 out of this whole shtick.

01:02:14.940 I gotta be honest.

01:02:15.460 Very nice.

01:02:16.620 By the way,

01:02:17.220 we couldn't have this conversation

01:02:18.540 with that conversation.

01:02:20.000 Dumbest bonehead move my life.

01:02:21.820 Okay, own it.

01:02:22.540 Move on.

01:02:23.440 Grow up.

01:02:24.700 And I'm trying to work.

01:02:25.240 Is that you talking to yourself?

01:02:26.200 That's how you're talking to myself.

01:02:27.420 I'm just looking.

01:02:27.900 I'm staring.

01:02:28.400 I'm looking right at you

01:02:29.200 in the eyes as I say that

01:02:30.600 just to get your reaction.

01:02:31.960 That said,

01:02:33.540 we are losing.

01:02:36.800 I feel it's asymmetry

01:02:39.820 of Donald Trump

01:02:41.080 and Elon Musk

01:02:42.000 sitting on tweets

01:02:42.640 or you doing social media

01:02:44.440 and then me doing

01:02:45.800 a three-minute hit

01:02:47.320 at three o'clock

01:02:49.000 in the afternoon on CNN.

01:02:50.960 I mean,

01:02:51.320 how the hell do we compete?

01:02:52.860 We're toast.

01:02:54.000 Well,

01:02:54.220 I mean,

01:02:55.160 I'm part of it

01:02:55.740 and credit to you

01:02:56.280 for doing long-form podcasting

01:02:57.680 because long-form podcasting

01:02:58.780 does penetrate

01:02:59.940 different audiences,

01:03:01.040 right?

01:03:01.480 And our show does very well.

01:03:03.440 But part of the problem

01:03:04.920 of the Democrat Party

01:03:06.300 that for the health

01:03:07.480 of the country

01:03:07.940 would be great to change

01:03:09.020 is that Democrats

01:03:10.000 cannot survive

01:03:11.000 in long-form podcasting environments.

01:03:12.760 Why?

01:03:13.260 It's too unscripted.

01:03:14.280 It's too masculine, honestly.

01:03:15.980 And the Democrat Party

01:03:16.740 has become too feminine.

01:03:17.420 What is masculine

01:03:18.020 about a podcast?

01:03:18.740 Honestly,

01:03:19.140 because I get the whole

01:03:19.840 manosphere

01:03:20.360 to go into the wilderness

01:03:22.200 with no rules

01:03:23.080 and duel it out

01:03:23.920 and see who's better

01:03:24.740 or who's stronger.

01:03:25.500 No, seriously.

01:03:26.380 I mean, like,

01:03:26.820 what?

01:03:27.340 Democrats can't.

01:03:28.040 No, I mean, like...

01:03:28.500 We don't do it.

01:03:29.100 You're right.

01:03:29.620 For whatever reason,

01:03:30.420 don't do it.

01:03:30.940 You can laugh,

01:03:31.560 but like,

01:03:31.900 who in the Democrat Party

01:03:32.920 or not?

01:03:33.460 You're right.

01:03:33.880 Will go?

01:03:34.800 I mean,

01:03:35.120 maybe Bernie Sanders,

01:03:36.260 but he only worked like that.

01:03:37.000 RFK when he was a Democrat.

01:03:38.100 Bobby,

01:03:38.540 who's now HHS.

01:03:39.600 But like,

01:03:39.860 there's something to be said

01:03:40.920 that if you want to earn

01:03:41.600 the respect

01:03:42.220 of Forgotten America,

01:03:44.120 you have to show them

01:03:45.240 that you can intellectually

01:03:46.740 joust

01:03:47.340 with no script,

01:03:48.780 no hard breaks,

01:03:50.040 no producers in the ears,

01:03:51.420 no teleprompters.

01:03:52.720 That's where new media is going.

01:03:54.400 Now, I will only challenge

01:03:55.660 one thing you say.

01:03:56.440 I am reaching new audiences.

01:03:57.860 I'm not talking to my bubble

01:03:59.280 because our content

01:04:00.760 is so appealing.

01:04:01.960 It goes in a decentralized way.

01:04:04.120 And it's not just political.

01:04:05.320 No, it's not political.

01:04:06.500 But like, again,

01:04:07.120 our conversation here

01:04:08.080 is going to go far and wide, right?

01:04:09.700 A lot of people are going to see it.

01:04:11.080 A lot of people

01:04:11.640 are going to consume it

01:04:12.480 because it's also politics

01:04:14.240 and entertainment

01:04:14.780 have begun to overlap, right?

01:04:17.100 And the old adage is,

01:04:19.000 well, politics is downstream

01:04:19.940 from culture.

01:04:20.940 I think politics and culture

01:04:22.100 are indecipherable

01:04:22.860 from one another now.

01:04:23.860 Donald Trump became

01:04:24.720 a cultural phenomenon, right?

01:04:26.360 You go in to,

01:04:28.160 you know,

01:04:28.800 inner city Compton,

01:04:29.580 you'll see guys

01:04:30.180 with Trump shirts

01:04:30.860 with, you know,

01:04:31.300 the hand up,

01:04:32.560 you know,

01:04:32.800 fight, fight, fight.

01:04:34.160 So what Democrats are doing

01:04:35.280 is you're still playing

01:04:36.160 in a very old,

01:04:37.540 hypersanitized media environment.

01:04:39.100 Right.

01:04:39.580 And my advice is

01:04:40.960 you got to go

01:04:41.400 where it's unpredictable,

01:04:42.380 where it's treacherous,

01:04:43.020 where it's dangerous.

01:04:43.720 Now, I would make

01:04:44.800 a more provocative argument

01:04:46.160 that you wouldn't

01:04:47.260 necessarily resonate with,

01:04:48.560 which is that,

01:04:49.560 that you guys have not,

01:04:51.000 you guys have not built

01:04:52.200 the intellectual muscle

01:04:53.200 over 30 years

01:04:54.220 because you all agree

01:04:55.420 with each other

01:04:55.960 all the time.

01:04:56.880 Well, not like conservatives

01:04:57.920 are massively disagreeing.

01:04:59.860 Well, but hold on,

01:05:00.260 we have, hold on this.

01:05:01.020 And Trump has completely

01:05:02.100 collapsed the conservative movement.

01:05:03.620 I would push back

01:05:04.400 a little bit.

01:05:05.160 I would disagree.

01:05:06.060 We have a robust discussion.

01:05:08.080 Well, it seems like Congress

01:05:09.140 is really doing great oversight

01:05:10.520 of Trump right now.

01:05:11.580 They're just,

01:05:12.040 they're holding him to account.

01:05:12.840 That's an important

01:05:13.820 but separate issue.

01:05:14.800 I just want to finish the point

01:05:15.860 and we could talk about Congress,

01:05:17.080 which is that

01:05:17.620 in the Republican Party,

01:05:19.540 we have immense

01:05:21.380 and vocal

01:05:22.080 and public spats

01:05:23.300 all the time.

01:05:23.740 I think you would agree.

01:05:24.800 We fight about foreign policy.

01:05:26.500 Look at Ukraine, right?

01:05:27.700 We're talking about

01:05:28.520 primary challenging

01:05:29.440 some of these senators

01:05:30.220 that were meeting Zelensky last week.

01:05:31.820 The Democrat Party

01:05:32.600 would never do that.

01:05:33.660 Now, I think that is a symptom

01:05:34.820 of an underlying thing.

01:05:36.140 We are,

01:05:36.920 we're constantly trying

01:05:38.400 to find the approximation

01:05:39.760 of what truth is.

01:05:40.840 We're trying to use dialogue

01:05:42.620 towards,

01:05:43.780 hey, who's right?

01:05:44.760 What do you believe?

01:05:45.460 Why do you believe it?

01:05:46.400 And it's by no coincidence

01:05:47.540 that out of the long-form

01:05:49.620 podcasting genres,

01:05:51.120 the top 10,

01:05:52.280 eight of them

01:05:52.780 are conservative or center-right.

01:05:54.440 Rogan,

01:05:55.240 Megyn Kelly,

01:05:56.220 Theo Vaughn,

01:05:57.120 the Paul Brothers,

01:05:58.080 our program,

01:05:58.920 Ben Shapiro,

01:05:59.760 Matt Walsh.

01:06:00.860 There's a singular one

01:06:02.120 on the left,

01:06:02.580 which is Pod Save America,

01:06:03.920 which is just like

01:06:04.840 a bunch of Obama bros

01:06:05.940 agreeing with each other

01:06:06.780 for 90 minutes

01:06:07.700 and saying

01:06:08.220 that we're not very smart.

01:06:10.200 And, you know?

01:06:11.160 And so, anyway,

01:06:12.240 but I-

01:06:12.780 No, I appreciate it.

01:06:13.560 No, but it's objective truth, right?

01:06:15.260 I mean, you just dominate

01:06:16.400 this media.

01:06:17.860 I mean, it's medium.

01:06:18.760 But what, so what,

01:06:19.460 I mean,

01:06:20.220 but it's interesting.

01:06:20.820 You're making a deeper

01:06:21.880 that we're not,

01:06:23.280 and you didn't say it again

01:06:24.760 in a maligning way,

01:06:27.440 but that we're just not

01:06:28.520 capable

01:06:29.800 because we're not hardwired

01:06:31.880 to be able to participate in this.

01:06:34.180 Well, I think that it's two things.

01:06:35.340 Number one,

01:06:36.220 your upbringing

01:06:36.780 in college campuses

01:06:38.020 does not foster debate

01:06:39.100 like it used to.

01:06:40.080 It just doesn't.

01:06:41.140 It's that it's about

01:06:42.160 silencing the critic

01:06:43.520 and the elevation

01:06:44.420 of the victim.

01:06:45.720 So you do not have

01:06:46.880 the practice of

01:06:48.140 robust having to

01:06:49.620 defend your position.

01:06:50.700 It's very monolithic.

01:06:52.260 It's very centralized.

01:06:53.460 It's very top-down.

01:06:54.440 It's quasi-authoritarian.

01:06:56.320 And then, secondly,

01:06:57.540 I would just say that

01:06:58.720 the philosophy

01:06:59.700 on the worldview,

01:07:00.420 as I mentioned earlier,

01:07:01.220 that you guys have adopted

01:07:02.240 is that

01:07:03.240 thou which is oppressed

01:07:04.640 will get the most points.

01:07:06.080 You guys don't have

01:07:07.280 thou that has

01:07:07.760 the best idea wins.

01:07:09.260 And because of that,

01:07:10.540 you guys have an elevation

01:07:11.920 of like,

01:07:13.220 hey, we're going to

01:07:14.040 eventually,

01:07:14.440 we're just going to have

01:07:15.100 a small subset

01:07:16.000 of a minoritarian

01:07:17.240 hectoring

01:07:18.320 hall monitor

01:07:19.320 assistant principal vibe

01:07:20.740 of people telling you

01:07:21.920 that you're not allowed

01:07:22.600 to say these words

01:07:23.420 and you can't say that.

01:07:24.600 And we call that

01:07:25.620 political correctness,

01:07:26.700 which in and of itself

01:07:27.440 is hyper-authoritarian.

01:07:29.200 So if you seek to understand

01:07:30.320 why young men

01:07:31.240 are rebelling,

01:07:32.260 it's like,

01:07:33.120 no,

01:07:33.400 I'm not going to go along

01:07:34.340 with this anymore.

01:07:35.460 Like maybe I'm going to say,

01:07:36.280 for an example,

01:07:36.980 maybe I'm going to send out

01:07:37.640 a stupid tweet

01:07:38.340 when I'm 17 years old.

01:07:39.780 When I'm 26,

01:07:40.980 I shouldn't have to get fired

01:07:41.900 because of that, right?

01:07:42.580 I would do on that,

01:07:42.940 100%.

01:07:43.520 I've never liked this,

01:07:44.500 Kent Scott.

01:07:44.780 I mean,

01:07:45.040 I'm glad to hear you say that.

01:07:46.000 I remember back

01:07:46.940 when I was lieutenant governor,

01:07:48.300 I think Bill Maher

01:07:49.260 was trying to get on

01:07:49.900 the UC campus or something.

01:07:51.060 They were saying,

01:07:51.580 Bill Maher was too

01:07:52.480 conservative voice

01:07:53.200 and we called that out

01:07:53.960 at the time.

01:07:54.860 It completely said,

01:07:55.400 but it's equally insane

01:07:56.680 that people are boycotting

01:07:57.740 Bud Light.

01:07:59.560 I mean,

01:07:59.840 how is that not called out?

01:08:00.820 I don't drink,

01:08:04.340 that's interesting.

01:08:04.960 You don't?

01:08:05.660 No.

01:08:06.120 Never have?

01:08:06.780 I have, yeah.

01:08:07.540 A couple years ago.

01:08:07.760 What happened?

01:08:08.620 A couple years ago,

01:08:09.300 you stopped?

01:08:09.980 I stopped, yeah.

01:08:10.720 Why'd you stop?

01:08:11.560 I just wanted

01:08:12.600 to be more successful.

01:08:13.680 I love that.

01:08:14.340 What were you drinking?

01:08:16.500 Napa Valley wine.

01:08:17.780 Oh, Jesus Christ.

01:08:18.920 Here we go.

01:08:19.760 Right?

01:08:19.980 Are we going to get a little

01:08:20.640 my Lord and Savior

01:08:21.380 in vain like that?

01:08:22.140 By the way,

01:08:23.240 forgive me.

01:08:23.820 I deeply respect.

01:08:24.820 By the way,

01:08:25.600 do respect your faith.

01:08:26.720 I'm serious.

01:08:27.080 It's like the fourth time.

01:08:28.040 I mean, come on.

01:08:30.560 No, I don't drink.

01:08:32.000 But yeah, I mean, look,

01:08:32.860 but first of all,

01:08:33.460 we have the agency

01:08:34.140 to boycott whatever we want,

01:08:35.480 but understandable.

01:08:36.020 No, but I mean,

01:08:36.560 in that cancel culture in reverse,

01:08:38.180 I mean, a lot of cancel culture

01:08:39.440 on the right right now.

01:08:40.040 It's something completely different.

01:08:41.160 First of all,

01:08:41.420 cancel culture is someone

01:08:42.420 in power using their power

01:08:43.600 to cancel somebody

01:08:44.320 that doesn't have power.

01:08:45.240 That's cancel culture.

01:08:46.220 Time out.

01:08:46.740 Hold on.

01:08:47.220 Bud Light was people

01:08:48.080 that don't have a lot of power,

01:08:49.160 consumers using their agency

01:08:50.640 to say, no,

01:08:51.380 powerful corporation,

01:08:52.280 I'm not going to voluntarily

01:08:53.100 associate with you.

01:08:54.280 But cancel culture

01:08:54.900 has always been

01:08:55.700 the incumbent person with power,

01:08:57.880 a governor,

01:08:58.520 a principal,

01:08:59.240 a boss,

01:08:59.760 a CEO,

01:09:00.300 a corporate board

01:09:00.920 going against the weaker.

01:09:02.300 What we did with Bud Light

01:09:03.680 was just a bunch

01:09:04.300 of decentralized folks

01:09:05.360 doing a good old-fashioned boycott.

01:09:07.740 Completely different.

01:09:08.640 But a boycott is not,

01:09:10.440 I mean,

01:09:10.800 well, there's boycotting speakers,

01:09:12.480 there's boycotting,

01:09:13.400 that is a derivative of cancel.

01:09:14.980 But the culmination

01:09:16.220 of cancel culture

01:09:16.960 is somebody who has

01:09:17.860 a power position

01:09:18.720 wrongly canceling,

01:09:20.420 filing,

01:09:20.660 I appreciate that perspective.

01:09:21.540 So let's go back

01:09:22.060 to Democrats

01:09:22.600 being totally incompetent,

01:09:24.200 incapable of spending

01:09:25.120 30, let alone 45,

01:09:26.900 to an hour

01:09:27.540 having a conversation

01:09:28.880 broadly on podcasts.

01:09:30.120 I said you're

01:09:31.040 becoming the exception.

01:09:33.960 You're in the process

01:09:35.040 of becoming.

01:09:36.000 You're not there yet.

01:09:36.860 It's like becoming Gavin,

01:09:38.080 like becoming Michelle,

01:09:39.200 right?

01:09:39.700 I'm becoming.

01:09:40.900 But so what,

01:09:41.680 I mean,

01:09:41.760 who do you,

01:09:42.140 are the Democrats you do,

01:09:43.260 forget literally,

01:09:44.560 any Democrats you admire

01:09:45.700 out there right now?

01:09:47.960 I mean,

01:09:48.160 even beyond just

01:09:49.060 the podcast thing,

01:09:49.820 that you look and say,

01:09:50.860 Jesus, there's hope.

01:09:52.220 Gotta stop saying.

01:09:53.860 Forgive me.

01:09:55.080 There's hope.

01:09:55.980 We can edit that out.

01:09:57.240 No, I don't care.

01:09:57.760 You can keep it in.

01:10:00.260 I used to have respect

01:10:01.200 for Bernie

01:10:01.600 on his anti-war stance

01:10:02.660 and now he's a complete neocon.

01:10:03.480 I was gonna ask you

01:10:04.120 about Bernie.

01:10:04.440 He's a complete neocon now,

01:10:05.640 so he's not there.

01:10:09.120 Democrats,

01:10:09.660 I respect them.

01:10:09.880 Were you a Manchin type?

01:10:10.720 Oh yeah, I mean,

01:10:10.880 Bobby Kennedy, I respect.

01:10:12.920 Tulsi Gabbard.

01:10:14.440 Why are you laughing?

01:10:15.420 Why are you smiling?

01:10:15.920 Because like,

01:10:16.500 they're on our team now

01:10:17.240 because you guys kicked out

01:10:18.220 like your best people.

01:10:19.660 It's like the people

01:10:20.360 that were,

01:10:21.000 this is a great point though,

01:10:22.100 Governor,

01:10:22.340 is that Bobby Kennedy

01:10:23.840 was a heterodox opinion

01:10:25.220 on a thing that a lot

01:10:26.260 of people were concerned about.

01:10:27.080 Get him out!

01:10:27.520 He's an anti-vaxxer.

01:10:28.780 Tulsi Gabbard,

01:10:29.520 who is an anti-war,

01:10:30.360 get her out!

01:10:30.760 She's a Russian agent.

01:10:31.860 You guys see how you have

01:10:33.000 an unhealthy purification process

01:10:34.760 where eventually you're left

01:10:36.260 with just a 31% approval rating

01:10:38.240 and a bunch of people

01:10:39.480 that are talking to each other

01:10:40.600 and meanwhile,

01:10:42.080 we're the ones

01:10:42.560 that have Democrats

01:10:43.140 in our cabinet

01:10:43.920 winning the electoral majority vote

01:10:45.560 because there needs to be said

01:10:47.020 if Democrats are serious

01:10:49.080 about being a majority party

01:10:51.060 ever again,

01:10:52.040 when somebody has a disagreement,

01:10:53.360 for example,

01:10:54.080 if there's a pro-life Democrat,

01:10:55.700 is there a place

01:10:56.320 for a pro-life Democrat

01:10:57.180 in the Democrat party?

01:10:58.060 I mean,

01:10:58.220 there should be.

01:10:58.920 Okay.

01:10:59.380 On principle,

01:11:00.080 there should be.

01:11:00.500 Absolutely.

01:11:01.100 That's a big step.

01:11:02.220 That's a hugely held

01:11:02.600 personal point of view.

01:11:03.600 God bless.

01:11:04.140 I agree.

01:11:04.600 Not every party

01:11:05.700 or Democrat official

01:11:06.460 would say that, right?

01:11:07.500 And so certain states

01:11:08.680 have different opinions on that.

01:11:10.220 And I say this

01:11:10.840 as one of the biggest champions

01:11:11.960 for reproductive freedom

01:11:12.900 on the planet.

01:11:13.980 Yeah.

01:11:14.200 Trust me, I know.

01:11:15.240 That I know.

01:11:16.100 But like the issue though

01:11:18.340 is that that is like a,

01:11:19.680 that is a one-stop purity test.

01:11:21.300 Like we have pro-choice Republicans.

01:11:22.960 There was a sister soldier moment.

01:11:24.060 Susan Collins is a pro-choice Republican.

01:11:25.340 No, and Trump himself

01:11:26.520 decided to pivot a little bit.

01:11:28.160 Yeah, he's more pro-choice than I am,

01:11:29.840 like for sure.

01:11:30.460 But what I'm saying though

01:11:31.060 is what you see in the Republican Party

01:11:32.100 is the best, in my opinion,

01:11:33.760 culmination of modern politics

01:11:35.080 and doesn't get appreciated.

01:11:36.440 Look at that ideological diversity.

01:11:38.820 We have people that, you know,

01:11:40.100 geez, they want to go to war

01:11:41.080 with every country

01:11:41.740 that says something bad against us.

01:11:43.480 And then we have people

01:11:44.200 that are far more dovish,

01:11:45.360 you know, like Rand Paul.

01:11:46.700 But that is a better,

01:11:48.220 more, dare I say, diverse picture.

01:11:50.180 You could say diversity is our strength.

01:11:51.960 Oh, look at you.

01:11:52.640 Look at Charlie Kirk.

01:11:53.840 Diversity is strength.

01:11:55.220 I mean, I want to end

01:11:55.840 the podcast right there.

01:11:56.900 But first.

01:11:57.960 I said you could say.

01:11:58.900 You could say.

01:11:59.760 I want to,

01:12:00.720 do we have ultimate editing here?

01:12:02.620 I'm going to put that out.

01:12:02.860 No, you better not edit any of this

01:12:04.060 for the record.

01:12:04.360 We're not going to edit any of this.

01:12:06.340 And by the way,

01:12:08.180 no reason to edit any of this,

01:12:10.460 despite my use of inappropriate words

01:12:13.540 here and there.

01:12:14.280 There's a type of soil in Mississippi

01:12:23.260 called Yazoo clay.

01:12:25.260 It's thick, burnt orange,

01:12:27.380 and it's got a reputation.

01:12:29.300 It's terrible, terrible dirt.

01:12:30.960 Yazoo clay eats everything.

01:12:33.360 So things that get buried there

01:12:34.900 tend to stay buried.

01:12:36.560 Until they're not.

01:12:38.120 In 2012, construction crews

01:12:40.500 at Mississippi's biggest hospital

01:12:42.500 made a shocking discovery.

01:12:44.540 7,000 bodies out there or more.

01:12:48.280 All former patients

01:12:49.380 of the old state asylum.

01:12:51.520 And nobody knew they were there.

01:12:53.400 It was my family's mystery.

01:12:55.680 But in this corner of the South,

01:12:57.380 it's not just the soil

01:12:58.780 that keeps secrets.

01:13:00.140 Nobody talks about it.

01:13:01.820 Nobody has any information.

01:13:03.120 When you peel back the layers

01:13:04.760 of Mississippi's Yazoo clay,

01:13:06.700 nothing's ever as simple as you think.

01:13:09.020 The story is much more complicated

01:13:12.200 and nuanced than that.

01:13:14.720 I'm Larison Campbell.

01:13:16.120 Listen to Under Yazoo Clay

01:13:17.500 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:13:19.460 Apple Podcasts,

01:13:20.540 or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:13:24.100 Hi, friends.

01:13:25.280 Sophia Bush here,

01:13:26.360 host of Work in Progress.

01:13:28.060 This week, we had such a special guest

01:13:30.740 on the podcast.

01:13:31.800 My forever flotus,

01:13:34.560 a mentor, a friend,

01:13:36.020 a wife, a mother, an author,

01:13:38.080 attorney, advocate, television producer,

01:13:40.220 and now she adds podcast host

01:13:43.000 to the list herself.

01:13:44.860 Friends, Michelle Obama is here.

01:13:47.160 Sophia, I'm beyond thrilled

01:13:48.740 to be able to sit down

01:13:49.880 and chat with you.

01:13:51.160 We talk about it all.

01:13:52.520 Life, love, motherhood, martinis.

01:13:55.580 Vodka martini, dry, straight up, olives.

01:13:58.360 Ooh, olives.

01:13:59.480 Very cold.

01:14:00.860 My girl.

01:14:01.800 Barely any vermouth.

01:14:03.240 What's next?

01:14:04.460 What she's watching on TV.

01:14:06.480 I am a white lotuser.

01:14:07.980 I am a real housewives person.

01:14:10.760 I love the dating shows.

01:14:12.560 And tennis.

01:14:13.540 I just find that to be a bit meditative.

01:14:16.620 You do not want to miss this.

01:14:18.020 Listen to Work in Progress

01:14:19.020 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:14:20.760 Apple Podcasts,

01:14:21.860 or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:14:23.380 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

01:14:25.260 And if you've ever felt the weight

01:14:27.300 of letting go of people,

01:14:29.480 past versions of yourself,

01:14:31.020 or the expectations placed on you,

01:14:33.640 this episode is for you.

01:14:36.440 Lizzo opens up like never before

01:14:38.440 about self-love, transformation,

01:14:41.060 and finding real peace

01:14:42.700 in a world that constantly

01:14:44.460 tries to define you.

01:14:46.020 It's not me anymore.

01:14:47.220 Whoever Lizzo is to the world

01:14:48.600 is not really even me.

01:14:49.720 And that disconnect is depressing.

01:14:53.180 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

01:14:58.060 I think it's also hard

01:14:59.500 when the things that you stand for

01:15:01.520 are the same things

01:15:02.660 that you're being scrutinized for.

01:15:03.760 The weight that is no longer on me

01:15:06.180 is not just fat or physical.

01:15:08.860 I released so much to get to this point.

01:15:12.780 And to be honest with you,

01:15:13.820 I don't feel like I've expressed myself

01:15:15.420 fully in the last two years.

01:15:17.260 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty

01:15:19.480 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:15:21.300 Apple Podcasts,

01:15:22.340 or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:15:27.000 The number one hit true crime podcast,

01:15:29.820 The Girlfriends, is back

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01:15:57.200 Like Luanne,

01:15:58.140 who was raised

01:15:58.760 in a secretive religious community.

01:16:00.940 Do I want my freedom?

01:16:02.400 Or do I want my family?

01:16:04.020 And found a way to escape.

01:16:05.640 When she said,

01:16:06.780 you know you can leave, right?

01:16:08.380 It was a light bulb.

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01:16:25.800 Let me ask you just on the,

01:16:39.680 on the Democratic Party side,

01:16:40.880 forgive me.

01:16:41.300 I do want to just,

01:16:42.660 look,

01:16:43.380 where,

01:16:45.020 so,

01:16:45.420 our effort to get out

01:16:47.080 of the wilderness,

01:16:48.700 you know,

01:16:49.380 on the woke culture wars,

01:16:50.780 on some of these issues,

01:16:51.680 on providing a more diverse campus,

01:16:56.300 dare I say,

01:16:56.820 of opinion,

01:16:57.860 and pulling people in.

01:16:59.680 But what,

01:17:00.120 what else do you,

01:17:01.260 I mean,

01:17:01.460 do you feel this party,

01:17:02.700 I mean,

01:17:02.860 you point that the Republican Party

01:17:04.680 is now going to be the dominant

01:17:05.680 and Senate party.

01:17:06.320 No,

01:17:06.560 I'm not saying that,

01:17:07.220 I don't,

01:17:07.520 I don't have that kind of pride.

01:17:08.660 I'm not saying,

01:17:08.980 I'm saying right now

01:17:09.580 we are the ascendant worldview,

01:17:11.400 but we could screw this up easily.

01:17:12.780 And we might be,

01:17:13.400 you have to have the humility

01:17:14.540 to say that.

01:17:15.400 But like,

01:17:15.800 as of the recording of this podcast,

01:17:17.300 we have a majority approval rating,

01:17:18.520 won the electoral,

01:17:19.060 I mean,

01:17:19.220 all that stuff.

01:17:19.860 Right.

01:17:20.240 And in both houses,

01:17:21.020 I mean,

01:17:21.180 but we could screw it up

01:17:22.060 and you guys could adjust or adapt.

01:17:23.440 Okay.

01:17:23.800 So this was what,

01:17:24.540 this was my,

01:17:25.120 this was the question

01:17:26.560 that I'm not articulating very effectively.

01:17:28.820 But I remember

01:17:29.520 so many of the similar contours

01:17:30.980 of this conversation

01:17:31.780 we were having in 2004 and 2005.

01:17:34.620 You just got shellacked

01:17:35.480 both houses of Congress,

01:17:36.540 Republicans,

01:17:37.120 you had a Republican president

01:17:37.980 that won the popular vote,

01:17:39.340 the last Republican president

01:17:40.500 to win the popular vote.

01:17:42.160 And two years later,

01:17:43.660 you had Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

01:17:45.440 Four years later,

01:17:46.100 you had 53% of the vote,

01:17:47.880 the highest since 19,

01:17:49.220 what,

01:17:49.340 I don't know,

01:17:49.620 64.

01:17:49.880 It's conceivable

01:17:50.580 that could happen now.

01:17:51.700 I don't say that's impossible.

01:17:53.740 So,

01:17:54.300 so what,

01:17:55.340 if,

01:17:55.700 if you were in my camp,

01:17:58.500 what is it?

01:17:59.180 I'm not going to give you my best advice.

01:18:00.360 I'll give you like,

01:18:00.940 I'll give you like the B or C level.

01:18:02.600 Okay.

01:18:02.800 Give me,

01:18:03.200 give me the B plus.

01:18:04.320 All right.

01:18:04.560 Because the secret stuff,

01:18:05.440 I'm not sharing.

01:18:05.800 No,

01:18:06.040 what you've got,

01:18:06.680 what is your secret stuff?

01:18:07.840 Why don't we go right to there?

01:18:08.720 That's secret for a reason.

01:18:09.360 What is it?

01:18:09.700 Is it technical or is it a substance?

01:18:11.540 Oh,

01:18:11.580 it's all that I could design

01:18:12.340 your presidential run in a way

01:18:13.540 where you would win.

01:18:14.340 I'm not talking about a president.

01:18:14.700 We're not talking about a presidential run.

01:18:16.060 This is not about that.

01:18:16.920 No,

01:18:17.000 no,

01:18:17.100 no.

01:18:17.160 You got,

01:18:17.480 by the way,

01:18:17.700 you guys are so obsessed

01:18:19.200 with the idea

01:18:19.920 that every goddamn thing I do,

01:18:21.880 I said it again.

01:18:22.860 Again with the invoking.

01:18:23.200 Yeah,

01:18:23.320 I said it again

01:18:24.000 because I needed your emotional reaction.

01:18:26.100 That everything I do

01:18:27.480 has,

01:18:28.660 is framed in that context.

01:18:30.480 It's a,

01:18:31.180 talk about,

01:18:31.580 Trump derangement syndrome.

01:18:33.260 I think you got one with,

01:18:34.160 no,

01:18:34.440 with California and me.

01:18:35.860 first of all,

01:18:36.520 it's not,

01:18:36.980 it's not new to have someone

01:18:38.240 from California run for the presidency.

01:18:39.460 We just beat someone

01:18:40.260 from California presidency.

01:18:41.820 California is,

01:18:42.480 bring it on.

01:18:42.900 California is the politics

01:18:43.980 to the Democrat party

01:18:44.880 as Florida is our party.

01:18:45.760 You guys have the speaker,

01:18:47.200 the former speaker of the house,

01:18:48.220 Nancy Pelosi,

01:18:48.780 right?

01:18:49.560 You have,

01:18:50.320 you have a lot of the ascendant

01:18:51.560 political voices

01:18:52.180 come out of the state.

01:18:52.760 So it's not derangement syndrome.

01:18:54.340 It's no,

01:18:54.920 it's knowing your enemy

01:18:55.860 and looking at the horizon

01:18:56.960 and understanding what's coming.

01:18:58.140 But anyway,

01:18:58.460 if I were to give you

01:18:59.420 or somebody advice,

01:19:00.620 I'll give you the BNC level stuff,

01:19:01.840 which is very simple.

01:19:02.620 You have to go to war

01:19:03.540 with your own party

01:19:04.240 on three major things.

01:19:05.760 You got to say,

01:19:06.500 we are not going to do

01:19:07.280 this illegal immigration thing anymore,

01:19:08.600 which includes like,

01:19:09.960 are you going to work with ICE?

01:19:11.720 We do work with ICE.

01:19:12.600 Okay,

01:19:12.700 great.

01:19:13.060 Let me,

01:19:13.900 by the way,

01:19:14.520 I want to make sure

01:19:15.380 people can do this.

01:19:16.440 We've,

01:19:16.880 we have been,

01:19:17.700 I in fact,

01:19:19.340 directly,

01:19:19.800 we actually put out the data.

01:19:22.020 I was,

01:19:22.320 I actually reached out

01:19:23.300 to the administration

01:19:24.040 saying,

01:19:24.640 are you not aware

01:19:25.320 that California coordinates

01:19:26.420 and cooperates

01:19:27.140 with all CDCR releases

01:19:28.900 over 10,000?

01:19:29.800 That's great.

01:19:29.960 So explain the sanctuary

01:19:30.820 state thing then.

01:19:31.780 What is the difference?

01:19:32.600 You've got the statewide

01:19:33.320 sanctuary state

01:19:34.320 and you've got local

01:19:35.260 sanctuary cities.

01:19:35.840 Which Governor Brown signed it,

01:19:35.860 not you.

01:19:36.280 Yeah,

01:19:36.620 which in the statewide framework

01:19:38.480 allows us to work

01:19:39.580 as it relates to issues

01:19:40.480 of criminals

01:19:41.480 and coordinating

01:19:42.880 the release of criminals

01:19:44.580 from our federal,

01:19:45.740 from our state prison population,

01:19:47.220 prison system.

01:19:48.660 We coordinate with ICE

01:19:50.700 on the deportation.

01:19:51.980 We've done that

01:19:52.580 over 10,000 times

01:19:53.940 since I've been governor.

01:19:55.180 We're not denying access.

01:19:57.180 We're not denying coordination

01:19:59.660 for criminals.

01:20:00.720 I'm glad to hear that.

01:20:00.840 That's why I asked.

01:20:01.480 For criminals.

01:20:02.120 Sanctuary policy was never.

01:20:03.500 I would say

01:20:04.160 if you break into the country illegally

01:20:05.520 in 8 USD 1325

01:20:07.120 is breaking a federal law, right?

01:20:08.660 I get it.

01:20:08.700 It's civil,

01:20:09.060 not criminal.

01:20:09.720 But it is a federal law.

01:20:10.800 I get it.

01:20:11.360 So by the way,

01:20:12.360 if you're serious

01:20:13.060 about moderating the party,

01:20:14.060 8 USD 1325,

01:20:15.700 vast majority Americans.

01:20:16.520 I'm going to just go through it.

01:20:17.540 No, no, I get it.

01:20:17.860 The vast majority Americans

01:20:18.380 want mass deportations.

01:20:19.780 It's just the thing.

01:20:20.420 Until they don't.

01:20:21.620 Well, okay.

01:20:22.100 That's my humble opinion.

01:20:23.060 Until they don't.

01:20:23.720 Okay.

01:20:24.420 Someone has been here 10 years

01:20:25.720 paying taxes.

01:20:27.340 I don't buy it.

01:20:28.240 But at the moment,

01:20:29.380 you're right.

01:20:29.680 You might be right.

01:20:30.300 The number is bared up.

01:20:31.000 We'll see.

01:20:31.580 Number two,

01:20:32.100 we mentioned the trans stuff.

01:20:33.240 It's an affront to all of our senses.

01:20:34.680 It's out of control.

01:20:36.420 But you don't believe in it fundamentally.

01:20:38.200 It's not just sports.

01:20:39.040 It's not style.

01:20:39.560 You just don't.

01:20:40.340 I mean,

01:20:41.020 get back to living.

01:20:42.040 Charlie Kirk's views are separate

01:20:43.120 than the political advice I'm getting.

01:20:44.540 But if you'd like me to,

01:20:45.300 we could do a whole.

01:20:45.900 No, I get it.

01:20:46.460 Charlie Kirk asked me anything

01:20:47.340 and you could show up to

01:20:48.220 Cal State Northridge on Thursday.

01:20:49.500 I've got 25 TikToks

01:20:51.540 of what your feelings are.

01:20:53.060 So actually,

01:20:53.660 that was a question

01:20:55.080 I didn't even ask.

01:20:55.860 If you want it,

01:20:56.540 it's fine.

01:20:56.820 I just don't think

01:20:57.180 that's the best use of our time.

01:20:58.300 But on the political advice

01:20:59.300 is that Americans

01:21:00.380 increasingly believe

01:21:01.500 that their good heartedness

01:21:03.220 and charitable nature

01:21:04.200 towards the LGBT issue

01:21:06.480 has gone overblown,

01:21:07.960 especially with youth sports,

01:21:09.160 youth curriculum,

01:21:10.180 and the chemical castration

01:21:11.160 of our kids

01:21:11.700 when it comes to this

01:21:12.480 medical therapy.

01:21:13.680 And you seem that you want

01:21:14.800 to really,

01:21:15.460 I encourage you,

01:21:16.180 Governor,

01:21:16.460 to learn about some

01:21:17.320 of the butchery

01:21:17.880 under the guise of healthcare

01:21:18.860 that is happening

01:21:19.520 under chemical castration

01:21:20.920 in this state

01:21:21.580 and in other states.

01:21:22.740 We don't have to spend

01:21:23.100 a lot of time on that,

01:21:23.780 but the American people

01:21:24.400 are overwhelmingly against it.

01:21:25.920 They're overwhelmingly against it.

01:21:26.920 I think we have to be

01:21:29.020 more sensitized to that.

01:21:31.700 Youth should be off limits.

01:21:32.760 I think that's the political direction

01:21:34.500 things are going.

01:21:35.320 You might be right

01:21:36.100 on deportations.

01:21:37.020 I know I'm right on this.

01:21:38.780 I know that this issue

01:21:40.080 is picking up steam.

01:21:41.200 There is no good counter to it.

01:21:42.740 The cast report,

01:21:43.560 the United Kingdom cast report,

01:21:44.840 the NHS came out and said

01:21:46.000 there's no good reason

01:21:47.120 to ever operate surgically

01:21:48.420 on a young person.

01:21:49.900 Puberty's not the problem.

01:21:50.780 Puberty's the solution.

01:21:51.660 I think I encourage you.

01:21:52.520 I'm not an expert in this,

01:21:53.660 but I appreciate your broader.

01:21:54.760 But I'm saying politically,

01:21:56.340 it's a super turbocharged issue

01:21:58.140 that is kicking the tail of Democrats.

01:21:59.640 The third one, though,

01:22:00.320 is quality of life.

01:22:01.360 Is quality of life.

01:22:02.140 I agree with you on this one,

01:22:03.220 especially.

01:22:03.640 But like, I mean, look.

01:22:04.460 No, I know you do.

01:22:05.420 Homeless and temp and encampments

01:22:06.500 out of control, unacceptable.

01:22:08.140 Yes.

01:22:08.540 Issues of just quality of life

01:22:09.660 is right to crime.

01:22:10.600 You know where I'm going with this.

01:22:11.580 Why is it you were able

01:22:12.440 to clean it up for Gigi Ping

01:22:13.680 that you can't clean it up?

01:22:14.380 Oh, that was you guys.

01:22:14.800 That was the dumbest thing

01:22:15.620 I've ever heard of my life.

01:22:16.440 By the way,

01:22:16.820 you guys weaponized that.

01:22:18.040 I saw that on 25 things.

01:22:19.260 It was the most ridiculous.

01:22:20.140 They're weaponized.

01:22:20.960 That was, you know what?

01:22:22.460 I will happily,

01:22:23.640 happily revert back

01:22:24.940 to your counterpoint.

01:22:26.140 Counterpoint weaponized,

01:22:28.380 in this case, weaponized.

01:22:30.220 In this case, weaponized.

01:22:31.520 Can I guess that Gigi Ping

01:22:32.400 streets back?

01:22:32.900 It was ridiculous.

01:22:33.200 Give me a break.

01:22:33.720 No, but Governor,

01:22:34.820 with all due respect,

01:22:35.600 I saw a beautiful picture

01:22:36.880 of San Francisco

01:22:37.520 that looked like Singapore.

01:22:38.500 By the way-

01:22:38.900 And then Gigi Ping leaves

01:22:40.200 and the Walking Dead come back.

01:22:41.160 By the way,

01:22:41.700 it was AIPAC.

01:22:42.500 You had dozens

01:22:43.120 and dozens of foreign leaders.

01:22:45.080 And California

01:22:45.880 is not San Francisco,

01:22:47.260 but I am the governor

01:22:48.140 of California,

01:22:48.540 not the mayor of California,

01:22:49.440 I'm not the mayor

01:22:50.140 of San Francisco.

01:22:50.420 You were the mayor,

01:22:51.060 but I just want to understand,

01:22:51.640 but you have to admit,

01:22:54.620 it's emblematic of something

01:22:55.620 that if enough

01:22:56.580 important people show up,

01:22:57.840 it can get clean.

01:22:58.660 So why not make it clean

01:22:59.500 all the time?

01:22:59.960 That's exactly my,

01:23:00.800 by the way,

01:23:01.380 that's my energy.

01:23:02.000 I think you've missed

01:23:02.660 a lot of my press conferences.

01:23:04.400 I've been saying that

01:23:05.080 to all these mayors.

01:23:06.420 State vision is realized

01:23:07.660 at the local level.

01:23:08.820 It's about accountability,

01:23:09.960 transparency.

01:23:10.640 If you can't clean up the streets,

01:23:11.920 we're going to redirect the money.

01:23:13.220 I hope the new mayor

01:23:13.660 can do that, right?

01:23:14.320 We have been crystal clear.

01:23:14.620 He seems to be more moderate

01:23:15.560 than the other.

01:23:16.000 Great progress is being made.

01:23:16.940 By the way,

01:23:17.620 what's going on

01:23:18.340 with homelessness

01:23:18.900 in all these red states?

01:23:20.080 You're seeing it

01:23:20.520 through the roof.

01:23:20.980 It went up 18%

01:23:21.860 across the country.

01:23:22.680 I'm not here defending

01:23:23.820 every red state

01:23:24.560 or what we're doing, right?

01:23:25.340 But I'm making the point.

01:23:26.340 This is hardly unique to California.

01:23:27.460 I'm sure there's a lot

01:23:28.260 of governors and mayors.

01:23:29.380 Quality life's huge, right?

01:23:30.220 Yeah.

01:23:30.440 And then like,

01:23:30.920 look, the number one thing,

01:23:32.100 which I know you're going to agree with,

01:23:33.060 and I'm sure you'll have

01:23:33.760 a super slick response, right?

01:23:35.380 That's about half true.

01:23:37.060 But which is

01:23:38.000 the cost of housing.

01:23:40.380 Average home in California,

01:23:41.240 $850,000.

01:23:42.120 I like what you said

01:23:42.980 about BlackRock.

01:23:44.620 So yeah, I mean,

01:23:45.400 but that was interesting to me.

01:23:46.840 I think that is,

01:23:47.600 but again,

01:23:47.920 that's not a majority

01:23:48.720 of house purchasing.

01:23:49.540 About one in four houses

01:23:50.540 are bought by private equity.

01:23:52.200 Would you agree to say

01:23:53.260 that BlackRock

01:23:53.860 should not be able

01:23:54.380 to own homes in California?

01:23:55.320 I think,

01:23:55.740 and then turning around

01:23:56.740 and renting them?

01:23:57.260 It's insane, right?

01:23:58.240 This is a huge problem

01:23:59.420 across the country.

01:23:59.720 You should propose a bill

01:24:00.500 in the California state house.

01:24:01.900 We've had one.

01:24:02.820 It didn't get very far last year

01:24:04.140 and there's more conversations.

01:24:05.520 A $10 trillion fund

01:24:06.660 shouldn't be able

01:24:07.120 to come in and buy homes.

01:24:07.540 But it's not just BlackRock

01:24:08.360 specifically.

01:24:09.020 I mean,

01:24:09.260 it's what's happening

01:24:09.920 in this space.

01:24:10.700 Mass asset managers

01:24:12.900 that have $50 billion

01:24:14.780 asset under management

01:24:15.720 are now competing

01:24:16.720 against our college grad

01:24:17.980 from Cal State Fullerton.

01:24:20.760 I love that you say this.

01:24:21.580 By the way,

01:24:21.980 just in that spirit,

01:24:23.060 don't you agree

01:24:23.520 one of the Doge things

01:24:24.780 should be dealing

01:24:25.460 with the $1.5 billion

01:24:26.360 of subsidies

01:24:27.180 on carried interest?

01:24:28.500 Oh,

01:24:28.840 carried interest,

01:24:29.700 I think,

01:24:29.840 is a huge problem.

01:24:30.500 And by the way,

01:24:30.880 you know,

01:24:31.060 President Trump

01:24:31.620 has proposed

01:24:32.140 in his tax bill

01:24:32.860 to get rid of it.

01:24:33.320 He proposes it all the time,

01:24:34.480 but in that,

01:24:34.960 I mean,

01:24:36.080 Joe Biden didn't get rid

01:24:36.960 of carried interest.

01:24:37.460 That is the holy grail

01:24:39.380 of private equity.

01:24:40.580 You know that,

01:24:41.360 right?

01:24:41.860 Carried interest.

01:24:42.780 I mean,

01:24:43.260 I get it,

01:24:43.660 but let's go back

01:24:44.240 to housing.

01:24:44.580 And by the way,

01:24:44.860 you're going to have

01:24:45.260 a revolt in Palo Alto

01:24:46.800 if you get rid

01:24:47.440 of carried interest.

01:24:48.240 Yeah,

01:24:48.640 I should be careful

01:24:49.260 about that.

01:24:49.600 They're going to light

01:24:50.140 torches and like

01:24:51.640 run to Sacramento.

01:24:54.300 On the issue of housing,

01:24:55.340 you couldn't be more right.

01:24:56.160 It's the original sin

01:24:56.900 in the state of California,

01:24:57.900 affordability,

01:24:58.680 period,

01:24:59.020 full stop.

01:24:59.460 And it has more,

01:25:00.060 more impact on the issue

01:25:01.840 of homelessness

01:25:02.680 than any other issue

01:25:03.620 because of the cost of living.

01:25:05.240 By the way,

01:25:05.640 we had 188,000 people

01:25:07.100 in 2005,

01:25:08.600 20 years ago

01:25:09.480 on the streets

01:25:11.000 and homeless

01:25:12.200 and our point in time count.

01:25:14.860 So this is hardly unique

01:25:16.120 to modern California.

01:25:17.880 But help me understand though.

01:25:19.160 It's been a long-term issue

01:25:20.000 and housing is at the core.

01:25:21.240 We agree on the problem,

01:25:22.760 but help me understand this.

01:25:24.520 You guys control the House,

01:25:25.460 the Senate with super majorities,

01:25:26.500 you control everything.

01:25:27.460 Why can't you fix it?

01:25:28.640 You said you were going to build

01:25:29.480 three and a half million homes.

01:25:30.440 You're building like 111,000 a year.

01:25:31.920 Well, there was something

01:25:32.280 called a pandemic

01:25:33.760 that may have had

01:25:35.400 a little impact.

01:25:36.280 Issues of interest rates

01:25:37.360 may have had a little impact

01:25:38.380 on housing production

01:25:39.340 across the country.

01:25:39.860 You guys are still outpacing

01:25:40.500 every other state.

01:25:41.380 But hold on, hold on.

01:25:42.080 Except Hawaii.

01:25:43.020 42 secret reform bills

01:25:44.860 created a housing accountability unit.

01:25:46.400 How's it working?

01:25:46.900 And we're making big progress.

01:25:49.100 We've done all the rezoning.

01:25:50.380 I don't see any of it, but yeah.

01:25:50.900 We've been pounding in this space.

01:25:53.180 There's no administration

01:25:54.180 in modern California history

01:25:55.560 that's done more

01:25:56.500 to reform the housing space

01:25:57.780 and the regulatory space

01:25:58.900 as it relates

01:25:59.660 to the issue of housing.

01:26:00.780 The biggest challenge right now

01:26:02.260 is NIMBYism.

01:26:02.980 The biggest challenge we have

01:26:03.920 is local planning and zoning.

01:26:06.140 And that's why

01:26:06.580 we've been very aggressive.

01:26:07.400 NIMBY is a disaster.

01:26:08.080 We agree on that.

01:26:08.640 I mean, it's...

01:26:09.120 And so I have a YIMBY mindset

01:26:10.820 on all this stuff.

01:26:11.680 I'm in the front lines of this.

01:26:13.320 Your friends,

01:26:14.000 and they are your friends

01:26:14.740 down in Huntington Beach

01:26:15.740 that I'm suing.

01:26:17.220 They're conservatives.

01:26:17.920 Pastors or what?

01:26:18.540 The city council?

01:26:19.620 The whole...

01:26:19.920 They love you.

01:26:20.640 All the MAGA faithful.

01:26:21.800 You're 99.9%.

01:26:23.060 Who's living who in rent-free

01:26:24.300 and who's headed?

01:26:24.860 One of those smaller towns?

01:26:26.600 We're suing them

01:26:27.460 because of their rank NIMBYism.

01:26:29.680 We have been very aggressive

01:26:31.120 in this space.

01:26:32.140 I'm waiting for one big thing

01:26:33.320 we all are waiting for.

01:26:34.220 And I think it had a biggest,

01:26:35.380 perhaps one of the biggest impacts

01:26:36.700 that we don't focus on enough

01:26:38.060 in the last election.

01:26:39.040 That was interest rates.

01:26:40.140 As interest rates...

01:26:41.500 Oh, that environment...

01:26:42.080 I believe they will come down.

01:26:43.180 And you're going to see

01:26:44.140 an explosion of housing production.

01:26:45.700 Well, hold on.

01:26:46.120 I'm very confident

01:26:46.760 in that in California.

01:26:47.540 Yeah, but you also might see

01:26:48.440 an increase in housing prices,

01:26:50.000 of course.

01:26:50.460 Well, to me, it's...

01:26:51.600 It's all about supply, right?

01:26:52.520 ECO 101, supply demand.

01:26:53.800 Yeah, it's just the biggest issue.

01:26:55.480 It's been our biggest...

01:26:55.980 California and Hawaii

01:26:56.680 have the two highest housing prices

01:26:57.900 in the country.

01:26:58.760 Hawaii has an obvious excuse.

01:27:00.000 They only have so much land.

01:27:00.860 No, it's...

01:27:01.380 You guys don't have

01:27:01.900 a lack of land, right?

01:27:02.360 By the way,

01:27:02.980 I haven't been governor

01:27:04.080 for a century, okay?

01:27:05.160 I mean, Jesus.

01:27:05.580 I mean, we've been six years.

01:27:08.360 And by the way,

01:27:08.780 no excuse, I get it.

01:27:09.800 You can't take credit

01:27:10.540 for all the assets.

01:27:11.820 You know, number one AI,

01:27:12.720 number one nanotechnology.

01:27:14.500 But you also got to take responsibility

01:27:16.480 for some of the problems.

01:27:17.540 The general AI is more novel.

01:27:18.100 I can take a little more credit

01:27:19.400 on the general AI.

01:27:20.480 32 of the top 50 market cap companies.

01:27:21.180 But I'm saying you have to balance

01:27:22.160 both the credit and the...

01:27:24.020 I get it.

01:27:24.440 ...and the blame.

01:27:25.200 No, I appreciate it.

01:27:26.020 But quality of life, right?

01:27:27.440 100% agree.

01:27:28.240 So when I talked to a college kid,

01:27:29.780 one of the reasons

01:27:30.280 they saw Trump as a vessel

01:27:31.760 for a better life

01:27:33.180 is that under President Trump,

01:27:35.200 those first four years,

01:27:36.560 we saw a material increase

01:27:38.620 in their livelihood,

01:27:40.540 wages, easier to buy a home,

01:27:42.520 four years.

01:27:43.240 Four years, like,

01:27:43.600 just the facts are

01:27:44.400 the average wage

01:27:45.940 to be able to own a home

01:27:46.920 in L.A.,

01:27:47.940 to be able to own a home.

01:27:48.840 Oh, yeah.

01:27:49.620 Insane.

01:27:49.920 It used to be $75,000 a year.

01:27:51.640 Now it's $145,000 a year.

01:27:53.700 So, I mean, what it does,

01:27:54.860 and this is, again,

01:27:56.000 it's creating

01:27:56.640 this kind of belief system

01:27:58.600 of Russian serfs

01:27:59.540 of a generation

01:28:00.180 that will never have

01:28:01.120 the material American dream

01:28:02.260 that their parents once enjoyed.

01:28:03.660 Yeah, no, and look,

01:28:04.560 I think it's a full circle

01:28:05.600 on this conversation

01:28:06.980 where you began

01:28:07.700 by identifying-

01:28:09.140 We'll circle back.

01:28:09.820 No, but it's a point.

01:28:10.840 The point you're making,

01:28:12.160 Scott Galloway

01:28:12.820 and others have been making

01:28:13.700 as it relates

01:28:14.220 to this generational theft.

01:28:15.500 Yes.

01:28:15.800 He's spot on on this,

01:28:16.800 and I think there's

01:28:17.340 so much validity

01:28:18.460 to you recognizing

01:28:20.320 that problem.

01:28:20.980 And how one,

01:28:21.580 so diagnosing is one thing,

01:28:22.760 and President Trump as well.

01:28:24.060 He deserves credit.

01:28:25.060 And, I mean, I think,

01:28:26.120 yeah, he deserves credit.

01:28:28.240 I mean, I'm going to get you

01:28:30.000 to say the words.

01:28:31.900 By the way,

01:28:32.680 I just spent almost 90 minutes

01:28:34.460 with him in the Oval Office

01:28:35.480 a couple weeks ago.

01:28:36.440 Isn't he the greatest?

01:28:37.240 And, you know,

01:28:37.920 I think it was the first Democrat

01:28:38.900 invited in in Trump 2.0.

01:28:40.480 I mean, you've got to admit

01:28:41.360 there's something magical

01:28:42.280 to that guy.

01:28:43.080 Joe Biden couldn't do

01:28:44.640 five minutes with you.

01:28:45.320 By the way,

01:28:45.640 I did almost 90 minutes

01:28:46.960 with Biden

01:28:47.820 right before he left

01:28:48.840 in the Oval.

01:28:49.340 Did he remember?

01:28:49.840 By the way,

01:28:50.080 that'd be a hell of a book.

01:28:51.740 You know, 180 minutes.

01:28:53.100 I should do a book

01:28:53.780 of the two,

01:28:54.640 of the bookmark

01:28:55.400 of those two experiments.

01:28:56.580 By the way,

01:28:56.960 he 100% was.

01:28:57.840 Oh, come on, Governor.

01:28:58.620 Just a fact.

01:28:59.620 It's a, it's just,

01:29:00.620 you can.

01:29:00.940 Do you think there was

01:29:01.360 any mental difference?

01:29:02.560 No, no, seriously.

01:29:03.500 You went around the country

01:29:04.600 being like,

01:29:05.240 he's, I'll take him at 100.

01:29:06.360 There was one exception

01:29:07.420 and I,

01:29:07.940 Just the one debate?

01:29:08.740 That, no, no, no.

01:29:10.220 Before the debate,

01:29:10.860 I was about to say,

01:29:11.940 and that was the big fundraiser

01:29:13.360 down in LA

01:29:13.940 where I saw a different person.

01:29:15.380 The Clooney.

01:29:16.600 And Clooney called that out.

01:29:17.820 Jack Black, right?

01:29:18.380 But it was, it was not,

01:29:19.980 that was, but, you know,

01:29:21.700 so much of that focus

01:29:22.660 was, all right,

01:29:23.100 he just got back from Europe.

01:29:24.320 But that was the one,

01:29:25.400 one time,

01:29:26.380 we don't need to get it.

01:29:27.160 But I'm not,

01:29:27.660 but I just say, Governor,

01:29:29.060 just on that one topic,

01:29:30.460 we saw with our own eyes

01:29:31.700 for three years

01:29:32.320 and the media told us,

01:29:33.500 no, no, he's perfectly fine.

01:29:34.700 Yeah.

01:29:34.940 And then we saw the debate

01:29:35.900 and look,

01:29:37.000 it makes us not trust our leaders

01:29:38.920 when we say everyone

01:29:40.040 is perfectly fine.

01:29:41.120 It's, the emperor is fine.

01:29:42.100 Have you seen any mental decline

01:29:43.460 in Donald Trump right now?

01:29:44.240 No, I see the more sharp acuity.

01:29:46.160 You tell me,

01:29:46.580 you sat with him

01:29:46.980 in the Oval Office

01:29:47.740 for 90 minutes.

01:29:48.960 The guy has a memory

01:29:49.920 of an elephant.

01:29:50.220 No, I'm just, I'm asking.

01:29:51.120 I mean, I know,

01:29:51.720 I'm just, I'm just asking

01:29:52.740 your personal experience.

01:29:53.180 No, of course not.

01:29:54.040 How often do you talk to Trump,

01:29:55.760 by the way?

01:29:56.060 Once or twice a week.

01:29:57.600 Is he checking for advice

01:29:58.900 or is it you give him advice?

01:30:00.160 A little bit of both.

01:30:00.440 It depends if there's something

01:30:01.360 I want to talk to him about.

01:30:02.440 But I mean,

01:30:02.900 he's just the machine.

01:30:03.720 He'll take every call.

01:30:04.640 You got to give him credit for that.

01:30:05.440 Isn't it amazing?

01:30:06.020 He'll take, right?

01:30:06.600 Every call thing's big, right?

01:30:07.860 It's amazing.

01:30:08.460 And he'll listen to every idea.

01:30:10.040 He'll joust it out.

01:30:10.940 He'll talk about it.

01:30:11.860 He always goes back

01:30:12.940 to what did I promise the voters?

01:30:14.200 What was the last idea

01:30:15.160 you gave him?

01:30:16.260 The last idea I gave him?

01:30:17.600 Yeah, it was like,

01:30:18.060 Mr. President,

01:30:19.000 here's what you need

01:30:20.260 or here's the thought.

01:30:21.160 Here's my observation.

01:30:22.260 Actually, it was interesting.

01:30:23.240 I said,

01:30:23.780 I don't think Canada

01:30:24.720 should be the 51st state.

01:30:25.880 We already have California

01:30:27.000 and we have enough libs

01:30:27.740 in our country.

01:30:28.640 Jesus, on that, Charlie Kirk.

01:30:30.440 Thou shall not take

01:30:31.860 the Lord's name in vain.

01:30:32.960 No, on that,

01:30:34.360 that, I just want to thank you.

01:30:35.900 This is Gavin Newsom.

01:30:37.100 This has been,

01:30:38.080 this is Gavin Newsom.

01:30:41.880 Thank you.

01:30:42.400 This was fun.

01:30:43.080 Thanks, man.

01:30:43.400 In Mississippi,

01:30:57.220 Yazoo Clay

01:30:57.940 keeps secrets.

01:30:59.440 7,000 bodies out there.

01:31:02.540 Or more.

01:31:03.180 A forgotten asylum cemetery.

01:31:05.220 It was my family's mystery.

01:31:07.660 Shame, guilt,

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01:31:10.560 something keeps it

01:31:11.520 all buried deep.

01:31:13.400 Until it's not.

01:31:14.900 I'm Larison Campbell

01:31:15.940 and this is

01:31:17.240 Under Yazoo Clay.

01:31:18.880 Listen on the

01:31:19.500 iHeartRadio app,

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01:31:24.500 What's up?

01:31:25.220 I'm Laura,

01:31:25.780 host of the podcast

01:31:26.720 Courtside with Laura Carrente,

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01:31:30.200 of women's sports.

01:31:31.360 I'll be chatting

01:31:31.820 with leaders

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01:31:33.320 Alana Klaus.

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01:31:50.880 Courtside with Laura Carrente

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01:32:08.500 Finally, this episode,

01:32:10.240 Lizzo opens up

01:32:11.300 like never before

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01:32:27.180 The Grammy goes to

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01:32:30.500 Listen to On Purpose

01:32:31.860 with Jay Shetty

01:32:32.660 on the iHeart Radio app,

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This is Gavin Newsom - March 06, 2025

And, This Is Charlie Kirk

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