And, This Is Gaming Culture, & Gen-Z Nihilism With Content Creator Brandon ＂Atrioc＂ Ewing
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 20 minutes
Words per Minute
191.94032
Summary
In this episode of the On Purpose Podcast, host Jay Shetty is joined by Emma Watson to talk about why she quit acting and why she decided to take a five-year break from the entertainment industry. They also talk about what it means to live through a time of uncertainty, and how to deal with it.
Transcript
00:00:08.300
Seems like the DNC as a whole is trying to run a very similar playbook
00:00:12.960
that didn't work and is wondering why they're not getting different results.
00:00:33.720
a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one.
00:00:38.580
We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists
00:00:41.300
to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective.
00:00:45.320
The Moment is a space for the conversations we've been having as father and daughter for years.
00:00:50.400
Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos
00:00:53.780
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:58.340
Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of The On Purpose Podcast.
00:01:08.520
Emma Watson has announced she's retiring from acting.
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Has anyone else noticed that we haven't seen Emma Watson in anything in several years?
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Emma Watson is opening up the truth behind her five-year break from acting.
00:01:20.940
Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,
00:01:25.820
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:28.500
The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years
00:01:37.840
until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.
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Bad things happen to good people in small towns.
00:01:52.580
Listen to Graves County on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:02:03.260
And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
00:02:08.580
When your car is making a strange noise, no matter what it is, you can't just pretend it's not happening.
00:02:21.600
If you're struggling and feeling overwhelmed, it's important to do something about it.
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It can be as simple as talking to someone or just taking a deep, calming breath to ground yourself.
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Because once you start to address the problem, you can go so much further.
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The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have resources available for you at loveyourmindtoday.org.
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Hi, it's Gemma Spag, host of The Psychology of Your Twenties.
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This September at The Psychology of Your Twenties, we're breaking down the very interesting ways psychology applies to real life,
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I find it so interesting that we are so quick to believe others' judgments of us and not our own judgment of ourselves.
00:02:58.260
So according to the study, not being liked actually creates similar pain levels as real-life physical pain.
00:03:03.480
Learn more about the psychology of everyday life and, of course, your 20s this September.
00:03:08.240
Listen to The Psychology of Your Twenties on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Your online name, which we'll get to in a minute.
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And for folks that don't know you, millions of people do because they watch you religiously.
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You're a rock star on YouTube, content creator, a Twitch live streamer, speed runner.
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But also really focused on building community around marketing, around business.
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And that's what your background represented, working at Twitch, working at NVIDIA.
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We can talk about AI chips, but I really wanted you on because with so much focus on what happened
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a few weeks ago with Charlie Kirk and Tyler Robinson, the person who's been accused, some
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of the gaming questions and issues that came up, some of the memes that were allegedly part
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The broader conversations we're having in this country around the manosphere and what's
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happening with gaming culture generally, issues of boys and men, everything about this.
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I all came back to you as a guy that can explain to unpack all of this stuff.
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And I wanted to, first of all, I want to say, you mentioned millions of people might know
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But the people that know me, I think they'll like me.
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People that don't know me, when they hear a content creator or a YouTuber or a Twitch
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streamer, I think they have an instant dislike and I don't really blame them.
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Like, I don't think that's, I think most people have an instant distrust of someone who has
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So I want to try and get across why people are turning to this, why this is becoming a
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And also understand that like, if you don't, if this is not for you, I get it.
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No, but I mean, it should be, but people, I mean, it explains more things in more ways
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I mean, I've got, I've got four young kids and it's pretty overwhelming, the gaming culture
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I mean, 70 plus percent of, of teenagers are active gamers.
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So I wanted to start with that, you know, and I don't think this is your stance, but it's
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like really important for me to get across early.
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It feels like in the wake of what happened with Charlie Kirk, there is a reignition of
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old, old, old debates around how video games, violent video games are the problem.
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And I just want to be so clear from my POV and from the POV of my audience, who's again,
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younger Gen Z men, that's an insane, insane way to look at this.
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You know, South Korea, Japan, UK, Germany, France, they all have the same rate of video
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game playing and they have none of the violent crime, but small fraction of the violent crime.
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No, and by the way, full stipulate, could not agree with you more as someone that's
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deeply focused on the issue of, of gun violence, mass shootings and all these things.
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And sort of the lazy punditry that comes back to this gaming culture has been completely
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Just stipulating an alignment of thinking on that.
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And then, uh, you know, they're now they're saying, I think they're about to haul the
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head of Reddit and discord and Twitch and all these people in front of Congress.
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Listen, these, the addiction to these things, and there's something that is addiction.
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I will say some, some young men are, are spending a large percentage of their time on these platforms.
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This is a symptom of them having almost nowhere else to go.
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And especially when I talk about gaming, uh, the idea that gaming is driving isolation and
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not isolation is leading to people trying to find an escape or connection through gaming.
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So I don't know if you, you have children, you have young boys, four, four young kids.
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I am battling, man, battling them on YouTube, watching someone else play Minecraft.
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And so what I would say is, you know, I assume you do the normal thing, uh, parents are doing,
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especially in SF, they limit screen time, things like that.
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But to be honest, if you told them they can't play Roblox or they can't play Fortnite, you
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Like they are less able to connect to their friends nowadays.
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That, that is, I know it's a generation disconnect, but that is not the problem.
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The young, the young men that are turning to discord servers and gaming are trying to
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They are logging on after work and hanging out in voice chats with their friend and having
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This is like the one thing that's keeping them sane in a world that is going, I think, increasingly
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insane and not offering them economic opportunities.
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Cause I, you know, I think a lot of people, obviously YouTube people are familiar with,
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there's a sort of generation though, that that's heard of Twitch.
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They're sort of kick that's heard of discord, but they don't know what these things are
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Maybe people are a little bit more familiar with, but talk to me.
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And when I, when I started, I mean, you Twitch is sort of a go-to for a lot of folks
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in the gaming space, but explain what these are, what these platforms represent, how they
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Um, yeah, so I worked at Twitch right, right around the time it started, uh, and it was
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a very lucky thing for me because I was a ASU Arizona state university, the Harvard of
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the Southwest, they call it, uh, uh, graduate and, uh, you know, middling grades.
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And I played a lot of games and it was very, very lucky that I found this route into Twitch,
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which was a, a website, which allowed gamers to broadcast themselves online.
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And people that also played the game found that to be entertaining and they would start
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to build communities and audiences and it would grow.
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And tell me what, what time were people starting to really, I mean, was it, was it a particular
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individual, uh, that said, Hey, I'm going to put myself online.
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Was there a moment that marked a consciousness of this whole, I mean, cause it's become a
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gigantic business and we'll get to that in a moment.
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Uh, but was Twitch really the first to really popularize as a platform?
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Twitch was the one that, that, that found this niche early for, you know,
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and what years are we talking about 2014 ish that's around when I, when I joined and it
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grows and then around COVID it explodes because everyone's stuck at home and it becomes, it
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You, you discovered Twitch as someone, not just doing content, but someone that was marketing
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I never had any interest in doing content myself.
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I was at Twitch and they needed someone to go on camera every now and then.
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And I was the one stupid enough to volunteer and I got some training and I was using the
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program and you got on camera and you started doing what you started explaining, uh, the
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video talk about the, no, you know, here's the thing.
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So what I'm saying might sound completely unwatchable to someone who doesn't play video games,
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but over the past, since 2014 to now, the platform has changed dramatically.
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The biggest thing on the website is not games at all.
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It's just people talking to the camera about their lives, about the news, about what's going
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People are just using it because it's a real direct connection.
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And so that has become the main, the gaming is still a big part of Twitch, but it's, it's,
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You might play games a little bit during the day, then switch talking about the news,
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Uh, at the time, I'm sorry, what was your, sorry.
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No, just at the time you were, what was the biggest content that was being provided at
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Was it, was there a particular game that was mostly popularized or that was disproportionately being
00:10:49.080
So I, again, first it was COVID and then I would say, you know, celebrities started to
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And I think, uh, Drake played with Ninja, some Fortnite and that every, every, every, I was
00:11:00.360
there, I saw every little step would blow Twitch up a little bit more and then it started to
00:11:04.320
But what I would say is it's spread beyond Twitch.
00:11:10.240
What I'm saying is people right now are just engaging through content creators because they
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I actually, what I'll say, what it is, is, um, and you probably deal with this as a challenge
00:11:22.100
Like people are very, very tired of inauthenticity.
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People feel like everyone's out to sell them something.
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But they're trying to find somebody they can trust.
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And so you're saying kids are going online and they, and they end up looking for that.
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They see someone they can identify with through a medium that they're already identified with.
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A game that they have in common or interests that they have in common.
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Twitch is not, it's not just a platform exclusively for gaming.
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The biggest thing on the platform is not gaming.
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Just, I think that's a shock to some people, but it,
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it really is just people talking, people having fun.
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And it's these sort of areas of interest where you get into these group chats and there's
00:12:10.560
People are engaged in a two-way conversation, not just one way.
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I mean, at a big enough chat, you're not really talking one-to-one, but the idea is people
00:12:20.780
And what's the difference between Twitch, Twitch and Discord?
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You know, uh, there's a lot of, um, among Gen Z, there's these memes going around about
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it's people getting messages from their parents.
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It's nobody's, it's your own private little room with your friends.
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It's like saying, I heard you're using an iPhone.
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It's just a, you're not in the same, uh, group.
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And you're referring to, cause there was, I mean, you, you, you hear about Discord often
00:12:54.280
in the context of some of these more high profile instances.
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Obviously this Tyler Robinson is accused of, of, accused of shooting Charlie Kirk, uh, used
00:13:05.700
Yeah, but he used a Discord chat room with his friends.
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Nobody else is, it's, you know, and it's any, any medium could have done this.
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The, the idea that Discord is uniquely, uh, brewing people like this is, is, uh, unsubstantiated.
00:13:19.720
So the gaming area, the gaming, most of the gaming platforms, YouTube's sort of dominant
00:13:25.120
Along with Twitch, who else is sort of emerging in the gaming space as the platform, the sort
00:13:31.820
I would say YouTube and Twitch is the vast, vast majority of people doing this.
00:13:37.180
You could talk about Kick, you could talk about Rumble, you could talk about the more
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fringe, wild ones, but, uh, Twitch and YouTube.
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And YouTube is the 800 pound gorilla in the space.
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That's where I'm putting out my content online.
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And so you started just as you, you just were there in Arizona.
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You just, you know, you just found just sort of a proclivity for it.
00:14:00.020
You remember the first game you were like deep into, like you're just obsessed with.
00:14:03.960
Well, now here's what I want to say is like, this is me in Arizona.
00:14:10.060
I had okay grades and the, and the college is not some incredible degree.
00:14:16.480
And, and thanks to a lucky opportunity and thanks to the economy being in a better spot
00:14:20.680
at the time, I get this last chopper out of nom.
00:14:23.860
It feels like where I get a decent chance to, to go off and make enough money to now I can,
00:14:34.240
But so, uh, I have friends now who are younger than me that are like, I have a friend who's
00:14:39.600
graduating from Berkeley, uh, computer science, smart guy.
00:14:43.460
He's graduating in an environment that is a hundred times harder to get a job than it was
00:14:51.300
So that is going to make him more likely to be nihilistic.
00:14:55.960
It's more likely to make him disengage from the system, more likely to make him angry at
00:15:01.580
It's just, it's not, it's tough to say that like, I just find it for, and you're not doing
00:15:07.220
this, but I'm saying I'm finding it frustrating.
00:15:08.960
The endless pointing to discord, Reddit, Twitch, it's, this has nothing to do with it.
00:15:15.980
It is, it is the situation where people are, are more and more desperate, uh, for a direction
00:15:23.460
I mean, I played, I played, I wasted my college on a game like league of legends.
00:15:26.960
I wasted, you know, but, but you didn't waste your, because I got lucky.
00:15:32.860
I don't think that's a, and what I do now has almost nothing to do with gaming.
00:15:37.320
I'll be honest with you, my, my audience hates when I game, but you're a world record
00:15:42.400
Just so people have an understanding who we're talking to here, you crushed it.
00:15:49.260
There's a game called Hitman where you, uh, you know, you're, you're flying around and
00:15:52.780
I, listen, I, I, uh, that is a time of my life where I was here.
00:15:57.120
I started doing this when I was working at NVIDIA.
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I was working some insane hours and I wanted to come home and disengage.
00:16:02.040
I wanted to just play video games and I wanted some friends in the chat to do it.
00:16:07.560
Then after COVID, I started talking about, you know, I'm an avid reader.
00:16:11.060
I'm reading the news every day and I want to talk, I just give my thoughts.
00:16:14.900
And eventually that was enough that I could leave a job that was really stable and good
00:16:19.580
And you started to be able to monetize it at that level.
00:16:22.440
Working for one of the great chip companies on planet earth.
00:16:25.640
And now one of the biggest market cap companies quite literally in the world.
00:16:29.400
Uh, and, and, and you started making the kind of money that you said, man, I'm just full
00:16:45.400
Uh, you're on a platform, you're taking a passion, uh, you're sharing it, uh, in a
00:16:52.120
I mean, that's pretty, I appreciate everything you're saying.
00:16:54.400
And it's nice of you to say, but there, as with all things, there's some aspect of hard
00:16:59.240
And there's like, and the idea that this is the path that everyone could just, you
00:17:03.780
know, I, I, I can think of so many times things could have gone a different way and
00:17:09.220
And you'll acknowledge, I mean, and I think it's just important to illuminate.
00:17:12.120
I mean, but a lot of people are finding this path, right?
00:17:18.500
No, yeah, well, no, I mean, I'm not, we'll see what happens, but it's in terms of my future,
00:17:23.240
Jesus, but it's, no, but it's, but it's interesting to me.
00:17:25.700
I mean, it's, I think it's people just to understand and absorb a sort of this digital
00:17:31.400
I mean, there's a whole generation, uh, that frankly, they, they're digital.
00:17:35.580
Obviously we talk about digital immigrants versus digital natives, uh, in sort of a lazy
00:17:39.480
vernacular, but this whole digital first experience is, is radically changing everything,
00:17:45.520
And we're going to get to that in a moment, but, but the gaming culture is real.
00:17:50.880
You've got stadiums now quite literally filled physical stadiums with people watching these
00:17:56.960
e-sports, uh, and other people playing games, uh, to a degree that I don't think most people
00:18:06.040
I went to a study abroad in South Korea and they had these big tournaments and I was blown
00:18:10.680
away and I was like, let's get this in America.
00:18:13.420
It happened without me, but I came back and started to work in that space and that blew
00:18:17.540
But again, I can't tell you enough, uh, this, like the e-sports is, is really a small part
00:18:23.920
of what is becoming this online, um, influencer first culture.
00:18:28.800
If you were to spend some time browsing Twitch, you would not see as much gaming as you're thinking
00:18:33.580
But it really is people just looking for human connection, humans to talk to.
00:18:40.340
I'm not saying everyone should be spending all their time on these platforms.
00:18:43.240
I am just saying that it's, it's a very natural response to, to things getting more expensive,
00:18:48.520
to looking for, to finding people who have shared some similar values or ideas as you
00:18:55.440
Cause I mean, there's those deep issues, generational issues that, uh, we've, we've been talking
00:19:00.760
about on the podcast with a number of people in the past and, and it's off the chart, particularly
00:19:05.200
And, and so I just want to unpack it a little bit more, just again, for people that are
00:19:08.640
not fully, uh, that just don't have the level of understanding the space, but you talk about
00:19:14.160
e-sports and I just think it's an interesting space in this context.
00:19:18.240
You say it's a relatively small space, but it's not a small amount of investment that it
00:19:23.240
I was just reading about Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Beckham, uh, folks putting tens of millions
00:19:34.740
But what I'll tell you is being dead honest, Gavin, a lot of them are going to lose their
00:19:38.740
It's not, you know, I've been around the e-sports space a while and a lot of people have gotten
00:19:43.960
The problem is it's really hard to monetize the user.
00:19:49.400
They don't, you know, there's not a, there's not a lot of in-person stadium buying merch
00:19:53.640
The business economics of e-sports are interesting, but it is growing in terms of viewership and it'll
00:19:57.820
get there, but they got way ahead of their skis.
00:20:00.520
I think a lot of people are, are coming down off the highs.
00:20:03.100
You know, it was like, it was one of those things, almost every business, there's some
00:20:07.700
And then it's, that's, that's happening with these.
00:20:12.240
It was like, you could, the salaries were insane.
00:20:14.500
They were getting paid absurd amounts for these players to sit in the room and play games.
00:20:17.880
It's less now, you know, it's, it's, and I, you know, Rick Fox of the Lakers put a bunch
00:20:22.520
of money into a team lost, you know, had to get out.
00:20:24.620
I'm saying it'll happen, but I'm not going to be one of those guys.
00:20:33.060
And so you're, what's interesting about you is not only your history and, and, and, and,
00:20:38.020
and how you've evolved in terms of your own career path and, and going into these aspects
00:20:43.340
and disciplines, but the marketing background and the business background and the work you're
00:20:46.980
doing on a new podcast, uh, lemon, it was lemonade, lemonade stand and talking about business
00:20:52.780
But you mentioned just in, in reference and passing something that I think is interesting
00:20:57.080
and for folks, again, may not be familiar with on Fortnite in particular, which I just
00:21:01.540
remember my kids watching religiously to your point during COVID, uh, excessively as
00:21:07.200
apparent, uh, from my perspective, uh, but, uh, from their perspective, they were, I just
00:21:15.120
But I remember turning it on one day and they're listening to a concert.
00:21:22.040
And they, so that fascinated me to this integration for live concerts that Travis Scott did
00:21:28.060
as I think Ariana Grande, uh, may have done one also brands, right?
00:21:32.100
I mean, you got Nike now working on those and those platforms, Louis Vuitton.
00:21:38.500
Give us a sense of what that integration as well.
00:21:41.340
I mean, it is as crazy as it can sound from someone outside of it.
00:21:46.340
It's people all over the world in a digital world, watching these concerts together.
00:21:51.920
And it's, it's just becoming where the culture, that is where I think there is such
00:21:58.240
And, uh, and I think that is what allows me to talk about other things with the lingo
00:22:03.760
and the references that they use, because it's just something they're native to a hundred
00:22:09.540
But I, you know, I think people will, will come around to it.
00:22:14.620
I, you know, here's an example, uh, for e-sports, all of the biggest ways to watch it are not,
00:22:21.460
you know how you watch the NFL through the NFL's official broadcast or a pirated version.
00:22:26.300
If you're young, but you're watching the official commentators, uh, for e-sports,
00:22:31.320
They make an official broadcast and then a million people will restream it and all their
00:22:35.720
And those guys get way more viewers than the official broadcast.
00:22:39.080
And we're starting to see that happen with sports where they'll have like the Manning
00:22:42.520
cast for the NFL who a lot of rights issues are in the way, but eventually they're going
00:22:46.160
to crack the code because the average person wants to see this stuff filtered through
00:22:51.840
And it's speaking to them like a regular person.
00:22:55.740
But the democratization of all of this stuff is happening and it is reaching sports now
00:23:01.660
and it's going to, it's going to happen to things you understand as well.
00:23:04.200
But, um, yeah, it's weird seeing it live, you know, gaming has been on the cutting edge
00:23:09.160
of this because I, again, back to my original point, it's just where people are finding friends
00:23:17.000
So this, so let's go back to that and we'll go back to your reference sort of this,
00:23:20.480
these moments that sort of mark the accelerant and obviously COVID was just off the charts
00:23:25.660
in terms of just people trying to connect, feeling totally isolated, disconnected, and
00:23:33.520
They can, they can literally develop friendships and, and, and relationships online that they
00:23:38.180
otherwise wouldn't have had necessarily the opportunity, particularly during COVID.
00:23:41.520
Talk to me about, you know, those years, you talk about 2021 representing sort of a peak
00:23:47.040
of consciousness, but what, what, what do you see start to really take shape during those
00:23:52.220
I mean, so after 2020, there's a lot of new money, both from Trump and Biden floating around
00:24:00.880
They both did a lot of stimulus and printing and that went into tech startups and that went
00:24:06.460
into, uh, e-sports and that went into Twitch and that went into all this stuff.
00:24:12.800
There was, uh, you know, I remember, um, there was the GameStop stock craze and everyone
00:24:18.700
And that was, these things became cultural flashpoints that were taking place entirely
00:24:23.220
And then after 2021, we started to get inflation, a lot of inflation that made doing things that
00:24:29.780
weren't online more expensive and more difficult.
00:24:33.960
And so these things I think combined to push people more into online spaces than perhaps natural
00:24:43.000
And so, um, it's good and bad, you know, as a content creator, COVID was, uh, uh, exposure
00:24:49.900
It grew a lot bigger, but it's not, I wouldn't say it was a good thing for overall.
00:24:57.780
I mean, the unhealthy aspects are what you try to get offline so you can get back into a
00:25:03.240
line and reconnect with people back in the real world.
00:25:05.600
I mean, well, in what way was it, was it, what I'm saying is I think people, uh, people
00:25:12.820
They just can't, they just, it is just more difficult.
00:25:15.860
You know, I, I don't know if we want to get to it now, but I, I do want to start talking
00:25:20.240
about Gen Z men and, uh, the issue I'm seeing, not all of them are like, it's a broad, diverse
00:25:28.160
And, and it's a huge point of my audience and I'm hearing them, I'm hearing their, their
00:25:38.460
And the nihilism is what's coming is what I sense growing a little bit where they're disillusioned.
00:25:44.020
You know, I think around 22, three, four, you probably saw this on the political side.
00:25:49.220
They drifted more conservative because they thought that would be the solution.
00:25:53.380
And as Donald Trump has proven to be not the answer to any of their problems.
00:25:56.180
And in fact, making a lot of them worse, making the inflation worse, making the economy
00:25:59.320
worse, making, then they are now just drifting into open nihilism.
00:26:04.240
And I'm not to, to blame that on the, the methods they're using to try and not be that
00:26:19.380
Together, we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through
00:26:28.160
I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this
00:26:40.500
This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't lose
00:26:48.080
To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective.
00:26:51.920
There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other, sharing news
00:26:56.420
and thoughts about what's happening in the country.
00:26:58.820
This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public.
00:27:04.520
Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the My Cultura podcast network
00:27:11.580
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:27:15.900
Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast.
00:27:27.920
Emma Watson has announced she's retiring from acting.
00:27:30.180
Has anyone else noticed that we haven't seen Emma Watson in anything in several years?
00:27:34.320
Emma Watson is opening up the truth behind her five-year break from acting.
00:27:40.320
Was acting always something you were going to do?
00:27:44.060
I was using acting as a way of escaping to feel free.
00:27:47.520
My parents, it wasn't just the divorce, it was just like the continuing situation of
00:27:52.340
living between two different houses and two different lives and two different sets of values.
00:27:57.360
The career and the life that looks like the dream, but are you really happy?
00:28:08.520
Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
00:28:19.400
All I know is what I've been told, and that to have truth is a whole lie.
00:28:24.900
For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky,
00:28:33.880
Until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.
00:28:44.040
A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, and that got the citizen investigator
00:28:52.220
Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.
00:29:00.860
I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that
00:29:11.560
Or rape, or burn, or any of that other stuff that y'all said.
00:29:14.760
They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her.
00:29:20.620
From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will
00:29:35.300
Bad things happen to good people in small towns.
00:29:40.560
Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
00:29:50.380
And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
00:29:55.900
It may look different, but Native culture is very alive.
00:30:06.920
My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.
00:30:12.460
It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly very traditional.
00:30:18.200
It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds
00:30:22.660
You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.
00:30:26.920
That's Sierra Teller-Ornelas, who with Rutherford Falls became the first Native showrunner in
00:30:33.420
On the podcast Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story along with other Native stories,
00:30:39.440
such as the creation of the first Native Comic Con or the importance of reservation basketball.
00:30:45.020
Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern
00:30:50.240
world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.
00:30:54.620
Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:31:08.820
We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.
00:31:18.760
We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.
00:31:22.400
And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get.
00:31:25.580
Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
00:31:36.000
Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL.
00:31:41.680
And it's, you know, but it does beg sort of the larger consciousness that came out of the
00:31:47.500
Trump campaign as it relates to, you're right, he obviously dominated, particularly with young
00:31:51.620
men, but outperformed in ways that I think surprised a lot of folks and invested a lot
00:31:57.800
of time and energy into spaces where a lot of young men were and where a lot of young men
00:32:05.260
We talk about this sort of manosphere, broadly defined, which is something that needs to be
00:32:09.840
But he did invest that time and energy to meet people, quote unquote, where they are.
00:32:16.980
And we didn't see that commensurate investment from the Democratic Party, certainly didn't
00:32:28.780
But, you know, I saw a piece from Ezra Klein the other day where he he talked about how
00:32:34.540
it seems like and again, I'm going to be candid here.
00:32:37.660
It seems like the DNC as a whole is trying to run a very similar playbook that didn't work
00:32:44.360
and is wondering why they're not getting different results.
00:32:47.160
It is shocking to me that with as bad as Trump is doing, and it really is, again, I if I want
00:32:55.120
to be your Gen Z whisperer for a second, again, I'm millennial, I'm 34.
00:33:03.640
They are turning on Donald Trump in a way that will come apparent pretty soon.
00:33:09.620
Uh, but they're not turning towards the Democratic Party difference.
00:33:15.020
They're equally as upset with them, which is what I think the problem is.
00:33:18.240
Um, and it's kind of crazy that it's not being capitalized on more.
00:33:23.460
I think what you have been doing is kind of breaking through the noise.
00:33:26.360
It's showing a little bit of, I don't know, a spine of like a willingness to stand up to
00:33:31.660
Um, but you know, if I can be honest, all right, here's what I'll say.
00:33:38.520
And you haven't announced anything and this is not, but there's a theoretical world where
00:33:52.300
And, uh, if, if I can get, um, somebody who's not militarizing the national guard and somebody
00:34:01.620
who's not shutting down TV shows that disagree with them and somebody who's not threatening
00:34:06.200
free and fair elections, that's a huge win already.
00:34:12.480
But, you know, realistically from the audience that I'm talking about, cause again, I think
00:34:18.860
And they, they, they can't go back to the status quo, Gavin.
00:34:23.700
They will, they will, they will continue to grow more upset and populist and nihilistic
00:34:32.140
Like they have to change on a more fundamental level.
00:34:36.800
Cause I, I mean, I love the clarity as you painted this picture.
00:34:40.980
I mean, it's, you know, it's pretty, pretty black and white terms as you painted.
00:34:44.720
I mean, just like this notion of nihilism of just like not giving a shit.
00:34:48.860
Shit about anything and blowing the whole goddamn thing up.
00:34:51.500
And then the most extreme example would be someone like Tyler Robinson.
00:34:53.700
If you look at, you know, his, and I got, I'm not, I'm not a psychoanalyst, I'm not
00:34:56.420
an expert, but there seems to be a nihilism to these kinds of actions.
00:35:00.340
And from young people in general, that is rising where it just feels like if I can't
00:35:04.100
get a house, if you're a young man, I can't get a partner.
00:35:07.680
I, I, I can't find a way to be a, to feel roots in the society that I'm in, then I'm
00:35:13.760
I'm going to disengage and they would find any tool to do it.
00:35:18.260
In fact, I would say that one of the healthiest things they can do is gaming and discord
00:35:24.340
The, the discord chats that I'm in are not making me or radicalize them.
00:35:31.640
I don't know if you've heard about what happened in Nepal recently.
00:35:36.320
So Nepal, their Gen Z youth was deeply upset about rising youth unemployment, rising poverty.
00:35:43.660
And they were posting about it on social media and they were getting angry.
00:35:49.720
That's when they're going, that's when they're, they're rioting.
00:35:51.680
That's when they're going crazy because these are the last outlets people have.
00:35:56.200
So I just want to give that perspective here is that if Congress is going to haul discord
00:36:02.060
and Twitch and Reddit up there and think that restricting them or banning them is going
00:36:12.860
No, look, I think what you're saying is profoundly important.
00:36:16.900
And, and I'm not trying to go back, but I want to paint this picture because I want
00:36:22.580
Exactly where, where you're going, because I think what you're saying is, is it needs
00:36:27.720
to be said because there were these trend lines that predate all of this for decades
00:36:33.340
And we have the first generation, this Gen Z is that literally is posed to do much worse
00:36:39.540
This is the first generation, uh, in our lifetime, my lifetime certainly, but literally in American
00:36:46.460
And so this is code red and it's led to suicides.
00:36:52.960
And it's, there's guys are screaming disproportionately men in some respects, uh, and no one's paying
00:36:59.660
Uh, and now we're looking at things and I love what you're saying.
00:37:02.480
We're looking at the platforms and not the underlying damn issues.
00:37:06.100
No, but yeah, but I want to get to, and I want you to hold those stats because I think
00:37:09.000
they're incredibly important, but I want to go back just so again, just because so many
00:37:13.220
people want to understand, and these are not root causes, but they're component parts of
00:37:25.180
This is an investment that I think Trump and the Republicans made into spaces that are not
00:37:32.300
They are spaces where people are talking about wrestling or, or, or UFC or video games or,
00:37:39.440
um, just finding connection often with other men and just trying to understand similar experiences
00:37:45.640
And they invested in those spaces and then, Hey, on the side, you like this also on the
00:37:49.560
side, you know, let's stop the woke mind virus or, you know, it would be something like that.
00:37:55.080
It would be, you know, Kamala Harris is not going to help you out.
00:37:58.780
And they would mix that in with things people already like, and it became very easy to, to
00:38:05.520
I don't think it's that hard for the Democrats to, to join these spaces.
00:38:10.860
Most people like, it's not, it's not rocket science.
00:38:13.500
And I think, again, I can't overstate how it feels like a ball somewhere is being dropped
00:38:19.480
when you can't speak even semi authentically to people that are not, they're not from a
00:38:26.400
Um, so that, that's a problem that I would point out.
00:38:29.980
And I think they did a good job with it, but I will also say this, listen, we're going
00:38:33.620
to fight in this country about social issues left and right forever.
00:38:39.120
And I really noticed that in the wake of this Charlie Kirk thing, where it's just an endless
00:38:47.380
You, every take goes viral in every direction and nobody's making any progress and no one's
00:38:53.140
But what I'll say is the main thing that I am seeing and feeling was a deep, um, a deep
00:39:02.660
resentment around costs and inflation and housing.
00:39:05.300
And I, I truly think whichever side can solve those problems will dictate, not dictate, but
00:39:14.140
People will go whatever direction is going to offer them solutions on that.
00:39:17.900
And because Trump has not done that, like he promised, there's, there's already a, a
00:39:24.220
It's going to go the other way, regardless of whether or not anyone reaches out to podcasts,
00:39:29.640
But if it goes this way and that isn't solved again, it'll be an even stronger, that is how
00:39:40.500
So you're talking, I mean, it's, you know, unpacking this a little bit, it's, it's not just
00:39:44.900
I mean, you talk about nihilism or broadly defined, I mean, this is just, you know,
00:39:51.880
And so, you know, one thing as a goal of mine on this podcast is to try and get you, um,
00:39:59.940
not cause I understand you have to win, not to win a lot.
00:40:02.420
I'm just like, you have to, you have to gain support.
00:40:04.700
You have to represent more than just some individual base.
00:40:07.780
And I think what you're doing, talking to people politically different than you is a,
00:40:20.480
I mean, Charlie Kirk on this show is, but when we launched this podcast is the first,
00:40:26.500
I, and you know, what's funny is, is, uh, I respected more for that.
00:40:30.680
I, I, I tried to do some research and watch some of these.
00:40:32.760
Some of the comments are, are brutal on you and you did it anyway.
00:40:36.620
But so, um, I'm not here to like push you in a direction that is going to make it harder
00:40:44.100
I think politicians should try to represent people that aren't directly aligned with them.
00:40:47.600
What I'm trying to get you to understand is like, uh, I think I want to push you a little
00:40:53.460
bit more economically on, you know, in this country from like the forties to the eighties,
00:40:58.820
we had an extremely low Gini coefficient of inequality.
00:41:02.580
It was, it was low and flat for years, a strong rising middle class and people broadly feeling
00:41:14.500
It wasn't, you know, it was a capitalist country and businesses could thrive, but people felt
00:41:20.760
And since we've allowed this increased consolidation, since we've continually used government funds
00:41:27.280
to prop up the stocks and housing of elderly boomers that own it all, it is, it has become
00:41:33.060
more, it's a ladder that is fewer and fewer rungs to get on.
00:41:36.800
And, uh, so if, if there isn't substantive change on that front, nothing else matters.
00:41:48.180
Um, and I understand that, you know, these boomers vote too.
00:41:51.780
I, I, again, people give you a lot of crap for California housing.
00:41:56.620
The more I look into it, it's, I used to be someone who just threw around blame really
00:42:01.160
It gets me depressed because it's like, it's an impossible complex problem.
00:42:04.760
People that have the housing, they put their life savings into it.
00:42:08.340
If you try to bring housing prices down, well, then now this person's mad.
00:42:16.040
This is an angry nihilistic generation that wants change badly.
00:42:19.280
And what was the quote unquote California housing crisis going back decades and decades, supply
00:42:23.900
demand imbalance, nimbyism, issues around localism.
00:42:27.460
Now it's one, now it's across the board, all across the United States, people are feeling
00:42:32.780
And that's why I think you brought up Ezra Klein a moment ago.
00:42:37.340
The whole abundance agenda and focusing on, uh, away from process paralysis, uh, and lawfare
00:42:43.720
and all of the nimbyism to a yimby yes in my backyard, not no in my backyard mindset in
00:42:49.480
order to break through that, uh, and to start to address that supply demand imbalance to
00:42:54.980
lower costs, to ultimately provide more points of, of opportunity.
00:43:01.540
And I think it's only reinforced, um, the broader analysis by the fact there's a lot of Trump
00:43:06.180
supporters that otherwise would be Bernie supporters or well, uh, as well, or vice versa.
00:43:11.060
So there's this sort of notion of populism and not in the pejorative sense, but truly representative
00:43:16.460
sense, uh, recognizing what's missing and giving voice, uh, to that.
00:43:21.320
Now, the question is the prescriptions that, that Trump's offering, as you suggest, I couldn't
00:43:25.700
agree with you more, uh, are sort of proven, uh, to do precisely the opposite.
00:43:29.600
I mean, the largest tax increase, uh, on middle-class and working folks, i.e. tariffs, uh, inflation
00:43:35.100
that's now starting to go back up, uh, and fed policy that is actually not accelerating in
00:43:40.680
terms of decline in interest rates, but because of those, uh, uncertainties, uh, particularly
00:43:45.980
as it relates to pressure inflation, uh, now is not necessarily moving as quickly, uh, to
00:43:50.520
lower borrowing costs as we had otherwise hoped.
00:43:58.580
I took his class when I was at NVIDIA, I was in Scott's class and he's one of the
00:44:02.000
people, the way he spoke, not even the content of what he said, the way he presented, I was
00:44:06.980
like, that is, that is something I can learn from.
00:44:12.780
And Scott, you know, Scott, for those that don't know, we also have out in the pod as
00:44:16.940
He's, uh, I mean, he really speaks to the Gen Z generation.
00:44:23.060
Uh, you look at this big, beautiful bill, uh, and all this massive tax cuts that are
00:44:29.000
burdening the generation that is increasingly already feeling like no one gives a damn about
00:44:34.900
Uh, so it just reinforces, I think the, the called arms that you're suggesting here in
00:44:39.140
terms of consciousness that is, uh, as it relates to the moment.
00:44:42.300
And I, again, you know, I, I think these, these trends were in a bad direction before Trump,
00:44:50.660
I mean, the big, beautiful bill is, is a disaster.
00:44:53.160
It is a massive multi-trillion dollar credit card swipe that we younger people are going
00:44:58.580
And I don't know, it, it, it, it's, it, I'm not suggesting, um, getting rid of social security
00:45:06.160
or anything, but it is, it is frustrating as a young working person that the biggest line
00:45:11.220
item on the government budget is checks to older people.
00:45:13.480
Many of whom have houses and have a paycheck to afford, you know, it is just, I think we
00:45:20.000
are not seeing enough go to people that are trying to get started in this, in the country
00:45:29.980
Together we're launching the moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a
00:45:38.860
I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers.
00:45:51.280
This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't lose faith.
00:45:58.660
To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective.
00:46:02.420
There's not a single day that Paula and I don't call or text each other sharing news
00:46:07.000
and thoughts about what's happening in the country.
00:46:08.720
This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public.
00:46:15.960
Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paula Ramos as part of the My Cultura podcast
00:46:21.540
network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:46:26.940
Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast.
00:46:38.480
Emma Watson has announced she's retiring from acting.
00:46:40.760
Has anyone else noticed that we haven't seen Emma Watson in anything in several years?
00:46:44.920
Emma Watson is opening up the truth behind her five-year break from acting.
00:46:52.200
Was acting always something you were going to do?
00:46:54.720
I was using acting as a way of escaping to feel free.
00:46:58.100
My parents, it wasn't just the divorce, it was just like the continuing situation of living
00:47:03.440
between two different houses and two different lives and two different sets of values, the
00:47:19.880
Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
00:47:30.040
All I know is what I've been told, and that to have truth is a whole lie.
00:47:35.580
For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky,
00:47:44.880
Until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.
00:47:51.020
I'm telling you, we know Quincy Hilder, we know.
00:47:54.640
A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, and that got The Citizen Investigator
00:48:02.740
Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.
00:48:11.420
I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that
00:48:19.260
I did not know her, and I did not kill her, or rape, or burn, or any of that other stuff
00:48:25.340
They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her.
00:48:33.120
From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will
00:48:45.460
Bad things happens to good people in small towns.
00:48:52.480
Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:49:00.960
And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
00:49:19.380
We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.
00:49:28.980
We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.
00:49:33.020
And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get.
00:49:36.400
Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:49:46.420
Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL.
00:49:51.980
It may look different, but Native culture is very alive.
00:49:55.680
My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.
00:50:01.660
It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional.
00:50:07.320
It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years.
00:50:12.060
You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.
00:50:15.440
That's Sierra Teller-Ornelas, who with Rutherford Falls became the first Native showrunner in television history.
00:50:22.540
On the podcast Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story along with other Native stories,
00:50:28.480
such as the creation of the first Native Comic Con or the importance of reservation basketball.
00:50:34.140
Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,
00:50:40.220
influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.
00:50:43.040
Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:50:53.000
And do you see it from, I mean, so there's tax policy that's obviously profound and outsized.
00:50:59.440
You know, it's interesting, we had Steve Bannon on as well, and, you know, he was arguing for progressive tax policy.
00:51:05.300
I said at a certain point, I said, Steve, you sound like you're governor of California,
00:51:09.320
arguing for California's progressive tax policy.
00:51:12.320
Yeah, he argues for Lena Kahn as well. It's a shocker to me. I'm a huge Lena Kahn fan,
00:51:18.640
Listen, those years I'm talking about, those low inequality years in America,
00:51:24.480
again, probably golden years of America, maybe social policy we can improve,
00:51:29.860
The key things of that era, we had strong unions.
00:51:32.160
We had a progressive tax policy that had high tax rates on the richest people.
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We had an antitrust enforcement that stopped constant consolidation.
00:51:44.460
Again, this Jimmy Kimmel thing, people aren't talking enough about how it's so clearly Nexstar trying to merge with Tegna
00:51:50.900
to get an inordinate amount of affiliates in this country,
00:51:54.400
and they're just saying whatever Trump wants to hear so that they can get this bill signed.
00:51:59.820
It all comes back to economics is what I'm trying to really get across,
00:52:05.180
and it's a core part of my content, is we can fight forever on social issues,
00:52:12.660
And in the social media area, I just realized how useless it is,
00:52:16.040
because algorithms will give you the opinion you want and the one you hate,
00:52:20.440
and they'll give you the comments that support you,
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because that's where we're going to make a difference.
00:52:35.180
They can feel, like, rents are going down in L.A.
00:52:51.000
I know it's like an impossible legal challenge,
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We're finally moving forward on the damn project.
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2,270 parcels had to be procured through eminent domain
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and it makes their life 5%, 10% more convenient,