This is Gavin Newsom - And, This is Governor Tim Walz

00:00:00.820 In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.

00:00:04.800 7,000 bodies out there, or more.

00:00:08.580 A forgotten asylum cemetery.

00:00:10.580 It was my family's mystery.

00:00:13.040 Shame, guilt, propriety.

00:00:16.060 Something keeps it all buried deep.

00:00:18.780 Until it's not.

00:00:20.280 I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay.

00:00:24.260 Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:30.000 What's up, I'm Laura, host of the podcast Courtside with Laura Carrenti,

00:00:33.660 a masterclass case study of the business of women's sports.

00:00:36.440 I'll be chatting with leaders like tennis icon Alana Klaus.

00:00:40.000 I don't do what I do only for women. 0.97

00:00:42.100 I do it for everyone, and I want the whole market.

00:00:45.020 And innovators like Jenny Nguyen.

00:00:47.240 I would say 50% of the people that come visit the sports bra aren't sports fans.

00:00:51.640 They come to be in community.

00:00:53.320 They come to be part of this culture.

00:00:56.240 Courtside with Laura Carrenti is an iHeart Women's Sports production

00:00:59.080 in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

00:01:02.200 Listen to Courtside with Laura Carrenti on the iHeartRadio app,

00:01:05.200 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:08.600 Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

00:01:12.800 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

00:01:14.240 This episode, Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation,

00:01:20.360 and finding real peace in a world that constantly tries to define you.

00:01:25.020 It's not me anymore.

00:01:26.400 Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me.

00:01:29.140 And that disconnect is depressing.

00:01:32.560 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

00:01:35.760 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,

00:01:39.880 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:42.020 The number one hit podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new,

00:01:47.400 The Girlfriends Spotlight, where each week you'll hear women share their stories

00:01:51.520 of triumph over adversity.

00:01:54.040 You'll meet June, who founded an all-female rock band in the 1960s.

00:01:58.400 I might as well have said, we're going to walk on the moon.

00:02:01.520 But she showed them who's boss. 1.00

00:02:03.120 They would rush up and say, not bad for chicks. 1.00

00:02:07.400 Come and join our girl gang. 1.00

00:02:08.980 Listen to The Girlfriends Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app,

00:02:12.900 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:02:20.300 Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

00:02:22.760 Why is my cat not here?

00:02:24.060 And I go in and she's eating my lunch.

00:02:25.800 Or if hypnotism is real?

00:02:27.500 You will use a suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

00:02:31.020 But what's inside a black hole?

00:02:32.700 Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.

00:02:35.820 Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart Original Podcast, Science Stuff.

00:02:40.240 Join me, Jorge Cham, as we answer questions about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies.

00:02:45.620 So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Science Stuff

00:02:49.260 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:02:52.800 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:03:06.000 And this is Governor Tim Walz.

00:03:09.400 All right, Governor, it's great to have you on the podcast.

00:03:11.860 Thanks so much for being with us.

00:03:13.540 I am.

00:03:14.020 Thanks for having me.

00:03:15.440 I'm kind of wondering where I fall on this list of guests, but I'm excited.

00:03:18.560 You and I have been friends for a while, so I appreciate it.

00:03:23.620 But you and I have talked about this for a while, trying to understand during a Trump

00:03:29.580 presidency, how do we best serve our folks?

00:03:33.040 How do we get back there?

00:03:34.060 And the Democratic Party, I mean, we all need to be very candid, is not all that popular

00:03:38.520 right now.

00:03:39.480 Well, that's where I wanted to start, just right up top.

00:03:42.020 I mean, the timing of this couldn't be more opportunistic for both of us as Democratic

00:03:46.040 governors.

00:03:46.440 Look, we're in the tank.

00:03:48.620 I mean, it's not just a rough spot.

00:03:50.460 It's an historically low, at least in modern polling, back to the 1990s.

00:03:54.940 CNN had the Democratic Party brand now down about 29 percent, and it was even worse in

00:04:01.240 an NBC poll that showed 27 percent of people supporting our party.

00:04:07.340 You've been out on the road.

00:04:08.540 You were just in a couple of red states.

00:04:10.460 You've been doing town halls.

00:04:12.400 We've talked about this in the past.

00:04:14.160 Privately, it's not just about what you see.

00:04:16.420 And how you say it's also about where you say it.

00:04:19.780 So I love the fact you were out there.

00:04:21.700 So give us a sense.

00:04:22.660 I mean, what you're over under is about where the hell our party is right now.

00:04:26.360 Well, and I think that's what people are doing.

00:04:27.740 Look, this is something hadn't been done, what you're doing.

00:04:30.560 And people are, you know, and we're trying to enter spaces.

00:04:33.760 And look, I don't know if all of them are going to work.

00:04:36.220 I don't.

00:04:36.920 But the fact of the matter is, we don't want to win elections just to say Democrats won

00:04:41.100 elections.

00:04:41.420 We want to win elections to improve people's lives.

00:04:43.560 When we're losing elections, chaos reigns, which we're seeing right now.

00:04:47.580 I'm at a town hall and these folks are standing up.

00:04:50.160 They're a VA nurse. 0.94

00:04:51.680 They're, you know, they're concerned what's happening at the VA.

00:04:53.900 They're a farmer that's concerned.

00:04:55.980 They're folks that are concerned about their personal reproductive rights and their life 0.99

00:04:59.140 choices.

00:04:59.580 And if we can't be a respected opposition or alternative, that really worries me.

00:05:08.780 And I say this, Gavin, that I didn't go to the Democrats.

00:05:12.420 They came to me with Social Security, with GI Bill. 0.56

00:05:16.360 You know, it was clear when at least my age growing up, Democrats stood with working people,

00:05:21.640 Republicans stood with the wealthy.

00:05:23.340 And there was nothing necessarily wrong with that, that, you know, it was at least an argument.

00:05:27.740 It feels much more polarized now, but people don't see us as that.

00:05:33.320 It's, they see exactly the opposite of that, that we're the party of the elites, that we

00:05:38.040 don't represent, we represent, quote unquote, others.

00:05:40.460 We don't represent them. 0.64

00:05:42.200 And this notion that the working class now has been, or has embraced Donald Trump is extraordinary.

00:05:48.160 And so, I mean, you were out on the camp, you were out on the campaign show.

00:05:51.820 I mean, it's such an interesting conversation for me to have with you.

00:05:54.520 And for those listening, because no one has more sort of a contemporary ear to the ground

00:06:00.180 than you do just coming off a few months ago, the campaign trail, meeting people all across

00:06:05.600 this country.

00:06:06.520 I mean, these, these new numbers that came out at CNN and NBC, I mean, even you had to be

00:06:12.080 shocked by how far we've fallen as a brand.

00:06:15.940 Yeah.

00:06:16.180 Look, and I felt excitement out there and our, our policies are popular, by the way, when

00:06:20.500 you put, when you pull our policies, like paid family medical leave, support for the

00:06:25.400 environment, reproductive rights, they pull very high.

00:06:29.120 We don't.

00:06:29.860 So what I have to tell you, what I take away from that, Gavin, is, is that I think we got

00:06:33.660 to be very careful of drinking our own Kool-Aid or believing we're in our bubble, because I

00:06:38.280 truly did think we were going to win.

00:06:40.340 And I say that as someone who has run in traditionally red districts, won close races.

00:06:45.940 And I felt like I had a feel, and I think this is where we're going to have to get out

00:06:52.140 over our skis a bit, try new places.

00:06:54.420 I know we've had this argument.

00:06:55.760 It was out there.

00:06:57.400 Governor, we didn't see you on a lot of, you know, things that weren't mainstream media.

00:07:01.340 We didn't see you on podcasts.

00:07:03.020 We didn't see you doing that.

00:07:04.680 Are you willing to go into those?

00:07:06.080 We need to be willing to go into those spaces.

00:07:07.980 Now, between you and I, Gavin, I don't think we're going to win over those 77 million that

00:07:11.900 voted for Donald Trump.

00:07:13.320 I'm concerned with the 90 million who stayed home.

00:07:15.940 Now, I'm concerned that our policies positively impact those 77 million, because you and I

00:07:20.340 represent a lot of independents, Republicans, Greens, as well as Democrats, and we have

00:07:24.700 responsibility.

00:07:25.860 I don't know if we can necessarily win them over, but I think the thing that we should

00:07:29.620 really soul search on is when the choice was Donald Trump and J.D. Vance and Kamala Harris

00:07:35.100 and myself and policies that we were clearly articulating, it got pretty close, 77 to 75 type

00:07:42.020 of thing.

00:07:42.840 But it's the 90 million that stayed home.

00:07:45.020 Why did they think we were the same?

00:07:47.000 Why did they think we weren't there?

00:07:48.420 And I don't I think by going into these spaces, to be candid with you, it allows people to

00:07:53.260 express their frustrations.

00:07:54.340 It allows people to articulate what's happening in their lives.

00:07:58.480 It better also be a place where we're hearing and learning, because I'm guessing you're hearing

00:08:02.680 some things that you don't normally hear when you're going on with some of these folks

00:08:06.480 you're on with.

00:08:07.420 They're telling you don't hear.

00:08:08.840 No, and that's yeah, this notion of uncomfortable conversations, not just conversations.

00:08:13.100 But let me let me let me step back.

00:08:14.740 I love what you said, because it's interesting.

00:08:16.260 This notion of our policies are popular, but our party is not popular.

00:08:20.840 And it begs the question some have asked me.

00:08:23.960 And I want to pose it to you.

00:08:26.180 Do you think one of the mistakes is we don't focus first on what we stand for and then make

00:08:33.240 the case the policy that backs that up and reinforces it, that we are not fundamentally

00:08:38.660 meeting people where they are.

00:08:40.160 They want to know what we stand for.

00:08:42.080 Yeah, I think that's good.

00:08:43.260 Yeah.

00:08:43.600 And look, I and I appreciate I think we're going to be in hard places and I think we're

00:08:47.380 going to get punched from both sides doing some of this.

00:08:49.640 But we're not in this to like I said, we're not banking political capital to win another

00:08:53.940 election.

00:08:54.360 We're trying to improve people's lives.

00:08:56.020 And let's all be very candid.

00:08:57.520 Nobody's lives being improved right now except billionaires.

00:08:59.980 And I don't see that changing.

00:09:01.800 And so I think we're going to have to ask those questions.

00:09:04.520 I think a lot of times the simple answer is it's the messenger, you know, which I'll

00:09:08.560 acknowledge.

00:09:08.980 Maybe the messenger is not good at this.

00:09:10.660 I approach this always, Gavin, like a school teacher.

00:09:13.360 I give a lesson and then I do an assessment of that lesson.

00:09:17.100 And half the students didn't do very well on it.

00:09:20.500 Well, I don't assume that those half are terrible kids.

00:09:22.980 I assume that they have a different learning style or they weren't hearing the way I was

00:09:26.360 teaching it.

00:09:27.220 Maybe these folks were, you know, verbal learners.

00:09:29.840 Maybe they're kinesthetic learners, whatever it might be.

00:09:32.140 I think we have to approach the electorate like that, that we think we're telling them

00:09:35.600 where we're at.

00:09:36.440 But for whatever reason, you're right.

00:09:38.340 And this pains me.

00:09:39.240 I tried to make the case.

00:09:40.280 Look, I'm a public school teacher, went to a public university.

00:09:44.420 And according to the Wall Street Journal, I'm the poorest person who ever ran for vice

00:09:49.360 president.

00:09:49.760 That didn't matter to them.

00:09:51.280 And so the idea here that we were trying to craft someone who, for whatever reason,

00:09:56.020 there was a number of people that didn't register with.

00:09:58.560 So I'm with everybody else.

00:10:00.340 And again, when people ask me, I'm probably the last person you should ask for answers

00:10:03.680 because I didn't get it done.

00:10:05.340 But I do believe we were making inroads.

00:10:07.400 And I will have to tell you, one of the most powerful ones for me, Gavin, it's not a great

00:10:10.900 use of campaign time, but we were up in Erie, Pennsylvania on Halloween before the election.

00:10:15.920 And I sat down with five undecided voters and we had a 45 minute give and take on that.

00:10:21.320 I think I got three of them for sure, maybe.

00:10:24.100 But, you know, that's how you view it.

00:10:25.780 But the fact of the matter was, is it was really good for me, too, because it was coming

00:10:30.120 back and forth.

00:10:30.740 And this guy says, well, I didn't realize, you know, you understood farm policy like this

00:10:35.140 because I'm not hearing that from you guys.

00:10:37.060 He was telling us he wasn't hearing that.

00:10:38.960 And I said, but I do know this.

00:10:40.600 I know the price of corn.

00:10:41.560 I know how these things work.

00:10:43.760 So I think as Democrats, we're going to have to push ourselves into uncomfortable spots.

00:10:49.280 And these town halls, look, I'll be the first to acknowledge of you.

00:10:52.140 It's to highlight that their members of Congress on the Republican side are ashamed of Donald

00:10:55.900 Trump's policies.

00:10:57.440 Is that I mean, was that fun foundationally?

00:10:59.480 What the why was that the inspiration?

00:11:01.500 Yes.

00:11:01.780 To go out and do it.

00:11:02.940 Yeah.

00:11:03.160 Yes.

00:11:03.360 And I don't demonize these representatives.

00:11:05.280 I honor their service.

00:11:06.220 I went out there.

00:11:06.740 But I lived through this.

00:11:07.720 I went to the town halls during the ACA and I made a full throated defense of President

00:11:13.160 Obama's health care bill and I got reelected.

00:11:16.020 Now, it was a tough fight, but I got reelected.

00:11:18.560 These folks are not going out there.

00:11:20.100 And I'll tell you, it's a huge mistake.

00:11:21.620 Democrats did this in 2010.

00:11:23.760 Oh, these are Republican operatives.

00:11:25.800 They were not Republican operatives.

00:11:27.440 They were my neighbors who were madder than hell and were getting misinformation.

00:11:30.780 But I went out and filled that void.

00:11:32.440 I think we as Democrats have have left a void and that Donald Trump is masterful.

00:11:37.700 Say what you will about this.

00:11:38.840 I don't give him credit.

00:11:39.740 I don't think he's a genius.

00:11:41.320 I don't think he knows how stuff works.

00:11:43.160 But I do think he knows how media works.

00:11:45.400 And I do think he knows that if we're assuming people hear our arguments, they're just so

00:11:50.600 selfish.

00:11:51.440 Just like this teacher in me.

00:11:52.660 I taught the lesson.

00:11:53.960 This should be easy.

00:11:55.460 Well, that's not how all people learn.

00:11:57.320 It's not how people's lives are at.

00:11:58.800 And again, if someone who doesn't believe a woman should have the right to choose, if

00:12:03.560 someone who doesn't believe the president should be restrained by the Constitution, I'm

00:12:08.660 not going to win them.

00:12:09.960 But I don't believe that's a very large percentage of the population.

00:12:14.280 But why are they not trusting us?

00:12:16.600 What's your take?

00:12:17.300 I mean, what are you hearing when you hear this?

00:12:19.560 Why are people not trusting the message we were delivering?

00:12:22.260 Because I keep coming back to this.

00:12:24.160 We needed to have immigration reform to control our borders. 0.98

00:12:26.960 And you can do that with humanity.

00:12:29.820 Donald Trump just said they're invading our country and they're eating dogs and cats.

00:12:33.120 And he got more votes.

00:12:34.840 Why is that?

00:12:35.920 So, I mean, and I want to, and I have strong opinions on that, but I want to sort of stress

00:12:40.380 test yours again, because I think it's interesting, back to my notion, and you say you're the last

00:12:45.140 person.

00:12:45.700 I'm going to completely dismiss.

00:12:47.180 I think you're the best positioned to understand what's going on.

00:12:51.260 But let me reflect on this notion of you being a teacher and reflecting on how your students

00:12:56.680 did.

00:12:57.420 Did you have an opportunity right after the election to sit down over the course?

00:13:02.620 I mean, I hope you took time off with the family, decompressed.

00:13:06.100 But you had to have had with your team these conversations.

00:13:09.600 Did you have them with the Harris team as well?

00:13:12.160 Did you have them with the campaign team?

00:13:14.320 Have you organized anything more formally, even internally?

00:13:18.120 You got books coming out.

00:13:19.600 They're going to shape those internal conversations.

00:13:22.240 You got one book coming out in a few weeks called Fight that is already starting to frame

00:13:27.680 what did or did not occur.

00:13:29.220 Have you started that process or has that process been advanced?

00:13:33.400 Yeah, no, you're right.

00:13:34.340 And I've talked to my team about it.

00:13:35.660 Look, as a high school teacher and a governor or whatever, I didn't think about writing a book.

00:13:40.000 But being there, I have.

00:13:41.180 You know, I think we got to tell our story.

00:13:42.480 And I think there's lessons learned.

00:13:44.000 To not go back and do a deep dive or a hot wash of this is irresponsible, in my opinion.

00:13:49.900 I spoke to the vice president last week.

00:13:52.380 We talked a little bit about this, of coming to it.

00:13:54.280 But we haven't done like a formal debrief.

00:13:56.700 And, you know, when you're part of it, you've done this, that when you're part of a team on

00:13:59.820 this, you know, you work together.

00:14:01.760 And I stand by that.

00:14:02.980 I signed up.

00:14:03.960 And I say this, Gavin, you'd appreciate it.

00:14:06.200 Not the cliches of coaching or whatever.

00:14:07.860 But I feel like I'm the constant team player.

00:14:10.560 If you are truly a team player, you have a responsibility to make your team better.

00:14:15.100 And that means a responsibility to say, look, we're not making this block here.

00:14:18.320 We need to do this or whatever it is.

00:14:19.600 And we need to be honest that, again, I keep coming back to that number of the folks who

00:14:24.740 stayed home.

00:14:25.760 How in God's name could you stay home during this election?

00:14:28.700 It's pretty hard to blame that on Donald Trump.

00:14:31.600 You know what I mean?

00:14:32.400 That you've got a responsibility.

00:14:34.040 They weren't going to vote for him.

00:14:35.500 His people were.

00:14:36.300 But you had a whole bunch of these folks that just said, what difference does it make?

00:14:41.320 And how did we, as a party, get into that?

00:14:43.660 How did we lose the narrative?

00:14:45.620 How much are we ceding ground to the Fox News and the right-wing talking heads?

00:14:52.100 How much are we ceding to them, which we don't have a pushback on it?

00:14:55.900 And that's fascinating to me.

00:14:56.940 I see that with me.

00:14:58.400 People who have a clearly defined vision of who I am by what they listen to.

00:15:03.680 And I'm like, well, that's not true.

00:15:06.840 None of that is true.

00:15:07.680 But they have it.

00:15:08.780 They have it.

00:15:09.380 And I mean, and it's so interesting.

00:15:10.840 I think about you.

00:15:11.660 And we've talked about this before, this notion of there was an effort to swift boat you in

00:15:16.920 terms of your military service.

00:15:18.260 And it's interesting.

00:15:19.140 And Tim, we've also talked about the fact you were part of Kerry's campaign as a veteran

00:15:24.420 promoting it, watching Kerry by these same folks get swift-boated.

00:15:28.160 And it did it.

00:15:28.960 And I'm telling you, this is one of the most painful ones for me, Gavin.

00:15:31.700 And not because I don't go down and throw this in people's faces, but my dad was Korean

00:15:35.420 war-era veteran.

00:15:36.500 He took me.

00:15:37.360 I did it.

00:15:38.300 I don't go out there and say, you know, I'm better than you because I did 24 years.

00:15:41.880 But how quickly these guys dismissed 24 years of honorable service.

00:15:46.000 I rose and served as the highest ranking enlisted soldier where you can get.

00:15:50.340 And they find a way to damage that.

00:15:54.180 And my argument on that has always been, it damages all veterans.

00:15:58.220 But I bet if you went and polled, we see this, veterans voted for Donald Trump when they

00:16:03.940 voted for us.

00:16:04.880 We as Democrats, how do you write this off?

00:16:08.220 How do you do that?

00:16:08.740 Or this one, Republicans are more fiscally conservative.

00:16:12.520 You know that's not true.

00:16:14.020 Republican governors of California have not been fiscally conservative.

00:16:17.520 No.

00:16:17.660 And I'll remind everyone, $8.4 trillion added to the debt during the four years of the Trump

00:16:22.560 administration.

00:16:23.000 And if you want to dismiss that, say it was COVID, it was $3 trillion before the pandemic.

00:16:28.160 He ran deficits every single year.

00:16:30.360 So I stand by what you just said, Tim.

00:16:32.780 I mean, what do you think happened?

00:16:33.960 And look, you're taking a different approach.

00:16:35.900 You're doing other things.

00:16:37.220 And I said, I think we as Democrats have to give, whether it's Bernie Sanders, whether it's

00:16:41.720 Jasmine Crockett, AOC, Gavin Newsom, J.B. Pritzker, all of the folks out there.

00:16:46.660 Because look, what we have in common is we believe in working people.

00:16:50.260 We believe in fairness.

00:16:51.100 We believe in health care.

00:16:52.080 We believe in the environment.

00:16:53.440 We're on the same team as the American public.

00:16:56.120 But how do you see it?

00:16:57.620 I mean, did it feel like we were going to win?

00:17:00.660 No, I mean, we had that conversation.

00:17:02.720 I felt like that up until Election Day for whatever reason.

00:17:06.220 And look, but it's interesting.

00:17:07.780 I had the same false sense that I think we all fall prey to.

00:17:12.040 And that is I was on those campaign buses.

00:17:14.100 I was out there campaigning for you guys.

00:17:15.980 And it's make-believe in many respects.

00:17:19.140 When they say, you know, when you want to go right, they say, oh, no, sir, we got to

00:17:22.740 go left because that's where the crowds are.

00:17:24.820 And we've been working hard to assemble them.

00:17:26.460 And I wonder just in terms of that, and I want to get back to answering your question,

00:17:29.880 but I want to just applaud you for doing these red state tours.

00:17:33.280 But do you fear?

00:17:34.020 And I'm curious if your experience is like this, when you go into those crowds, which

00:17:37.360 were huge, you were in Omaha, you were in Iowa, excuse me, as well, and you had huge

00:17:43.360 crowds.

00:17:43.860 But do you fear they're just you were talking to our same folks?

00:17:48.760 Or do you feel like there's a bunch of Republicans that were there to listen to you?

00:17:52.160 No, I don't fear it.

00:17:53.460 But I think we need to be honest with ourselves.

00:17:55.160 The folks who took a beautiful Friday afternoon in Des Moines to come listen to Tim Wall speak

00:17:59.340 probably could have a pretty good opinion of me in the first place.

00:18:02.280 But that's OK, because they're they're screaming, what are you guys going to do about it?

00:18:07.160 But I do tell you, there were some independents there.

00:18:10.000 I doubt if there were a whole lot of Republicans.

00:18:12.280 But I'll tell you what, those Republicans were watching.

00:18:14.960 And I think what I would say if I was them is, look, our our representative can do better

00:18:19.980 than Walls.

00:18:20.520 He should do it.

00:18:21.520 He should get out there and do it.

00:18:22.740 This is to put pressure on them to come forward, because then it really does become a debate

00:18:27.180 about the critical issues.

00:18:28.840 And like I said, this, I, you know, they can just come and why did you cut the V.A.?

00:18:33.500 Just tell us.

00:18:34.540 Tell us why you think that's a good idea, because I would argue, once again, 80 percent

00:18:38.520 of Americans don't want to cut the V.A.

00:18:40.180 And you have to give them statistics and facts.

00:18:43.140 And I think my purpose of this is is to force the hand of these folks, because I got to be

00:18:47.980 honest with you.

00:18:48.900 I think if they try and defend this stuff, they're going to lose.

00:18:51.760 I believe strongly in that.

00:18:53.320 This isn't just us versus them.

00:18:54.800 This is good policy versus bad policy.

00:18:56.900 And so that's the purpose.

00:18:58.620 But no, I want to be clear to folks who see that the folks showing up are excited.

00:19:03.520 But here's my thing.

00:19:04.860 Four months after losing this critical election.

00:19:08.880 Our base is still engaged.

00:19:11.180 So I think that polling is interesting, Gavin, that it doesn't mean that there's less Democrats.

00:19:16.280 And the reason that number is so low is if you poll every single year, if you ask the

00:19:20.640 Republican Party their opinion of the Democratic Party, it's very low.

00:19:23.760 The reason our numbers are so low is those are Democrats.

00:19:27.340 Yep.

00:19:27.620 Sixty three percent feel.

00:19:29.200 And I was I was I was grateful it was sixty three percent.

00:19:32.720 Well, here's what I say.

00:19:34.080 I'm not a Democrat.

00:19:35.260 I'm Democratic farmer labor.

00:19:36.940 I'm the one person in the country.

00:19:38.560 We're DFL.

00:19:39.640 And so and I actually think, Gavin, this is an interesting point.

00:19:42.740 While I won't cry and tell you we've kept the farmers all with us or whatever, we have

00:19:48.100 kept some of them like Farmers Union in Minnesota and issues around water quality and different

00:19:53.220 things and labor.

00:19:55.340 And in Minnesota, we really do.

00:19:56.840 This was a marriage between the Farmer Labor Party, which, quite honestly, was more progressive

00:20:02.600 and leaning into the issues of the working class and Democrats.

00:20:06.260 And so I think on a national level, we're going to have the conversation of who we are,

00:20:11.180 because like you said, people don't believe we're with them.

00:20:13.480 They think we're elitist.

00:20:14.300 There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay.

00:20:21.340 It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

00:20:25.360 It's terrible, terrible dirt.

00:20:27.020 Yazoo clay eats everything.

00:20:29.400 So things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not.

00:20:34.160 In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

00:20:40.360 7,000 bodies out there or more.

00:20:44.320 All former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.

00:20:49.440 It was my family's mystery.

00:20:51.720 But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

00:20:56.180 Nobody talks about it.

00:20:57.860 Nobody has any information.

00:20:59.480 When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you 0.99

00:21:04.400 think.

00:21:05.000 The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

00:21:10.360 I'm Larison Campbell.

00:21:12.180 Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

00:21:18.380 podcasts.

00:21:19.740 Hi, friends.

00:21:21.320 Sophia Bush here, host of Work in Progress.

00:21:24.120 This week, we had such a special guest on the podcast.

00:21:27.840 My forever flotus, a mentor, a friend, a wife, a mother, an author, attorney, advocate, television

00:21:35.800 producer, and now she adds podcast host to the list herself.

00:21:40.880 Friends, Michelle Obama is here.

00:21:43.220 Sophia, I'm beyond thrilled to be able to sit down and chat with you.

00:21:47.220 We talk about it all.

00:21:48.560 Life, love, motherhood, martinis.

00:21:51.620 Vodka martini, dry, straight up, olives.

00:21:54.380 Ooh, olives.

00:21:55.520 Very cold.

00:21:56.320 My girl.

00:21:57.900 Barely any vermouth.

00:21:59.300 What's next?

00:22:00.500 What she's watching on TV. 0.54

00:22:02.500 I am a white lotuser. 0.76

00:22:04.020 I am a real housewives person.

00:22:06.800 I love the dating shows.

00:22:08.600 And tennis.

00:22:09.580 I just find that to be a bit meditative.

00:22:12.660 You do not want to miss this.

00:22:14.060 Listen to Work in Progress on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

00:22:18.900 podcasts.

00:22:19.420 The number one hit true crime podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, The

00:22:28.740 Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:22:30.620 Our first two series introduce you to an incredible gang of women who teamed up to fight injustice, 0.99

00:22:37.500 showing just how powerful sisterly solidarity can be.

00:22:40.640 And we're keeping this mission alive with The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:22:45.500 Each week, a different woman sits down with me, Anna Sinfield, to share their incredible

00:22:50.360 story of triumph over adversity.

00:22:53.380 Like Tracy, who survived a terrifying attack.

00:22:56.480 I remember that feeling of, okay, this is how I die.

00:23:01.200 And turned that darkness into the most incredible journey.

00:23:04.980 I want to take over the world and just leave this place better than I found it.

00:23:08.620 Which took her all the way to Paris for the Paralympic Games.

00:23:12.280 Oh my gosh, this is amazing.

00:23:16.280 So come and join our girl gang. 1.00

00:23:18.400 Listen to The Girlfriends Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

00:23:23.400 you get your podcasts.

00:23:26.480 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and if you've ever felt the weight of letting go, of people, past

00:23:35.520 versions of yourself, or the expectations placed on you, this episode is for you.

00:23:42.180 Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation, and finding real peace in a

00:23:49.040 world that constantly tries to define you.

00:23:51.760 It's not me anymore.

00:23:52.960 Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me.

00:23:55.460 And that disconnect is depressing.

00:23:58.920 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

00:24:03.820 I think it's also hard when the things that you stand for are the same things that you're

00:24:08.700 being scrutinized for.

00:24:09.500 The weight that is no longer on me is not just fat or physical.

00:24:14.600 I released so much to get to this point.

00:24:18.300 And to be honest with you, I don't feel like I've expressed myself fully in the last two

00:24:22.640 years.

00:24:23.260 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

00:24:28.440 you get your podcasts.

00:24:29.480 Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

00:24:32.360 Why is my cat not here?

00:24:33.660 And I go in and she's eating my lunch.

00:24:35.400 Or if hypnotism is real?

00:24:37.080 You will use the suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

00:24:40.620 Or what's inside a black hole?

00:24:42.300 Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.

00:24:45.620 Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Science Stuff.

00:24:49.620 Join me, Jorge Cham, as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals,

00:24:54.700 space, our brains, and our bodies.

00:24:57.220 Questions like, can you survive being cryogenically frozen?

00:25:00.620 This is experimental.

00:25:01.880 This may never work for you.

00:25:03.460 What's a quantum computer?

00:25:04.900 It's not just a faster computer.

00:25:06.480 It performs in a fundamentally different way.

00:25:08.360 Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming?

00:25:11.500 It's not really a safety issue.

00:25:13.620 It's more of a comfort issue.

00:25:14.820 We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy-to-understand explanations

00:25:18.620 to fascinating scientific questions.

00:25:20.880 So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Science Stuff

00:25:24.720 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:25:31.500 What I love about what you did is you're meeting people where they are,

00:25:35.260 going into red states, but you're also not just meeting them where they are.

00:25:37.780 You're showing respect.

00:25:39.340 You're not turning your back because you're looking at an electoral map

00:25:42.440 and recent experience, say, it's just seven swing states,

00:25:45.100 and that's all we need to focus on.

00:25:47.380 And I think one of the things the Democratic Party absolutely needs to do

00:25:50.480 is we need to respect the fact that we have to represent the American people,

00:25:55.000 and that means all 50 states.

00:25:56.920 And so going back, showing up matters.

00:25:59.960 Howard Dean was right, 50-state strategy.

00:26:02.340 And just to be candid, as one of the fringe kind of washed in with the wave in 2006

00:26:08.800 when there was the big Democratic wave,

00:26:10.880 it was because of Howard Dean and a few folks that were out there

00:26:15.200 that were saying expand the map.

00:26:16.820 Rahm Emanuel, of all people, was one of them too,

00:26:19.220 said we need to expand the map everywhere.

00:26:21.500 They went into a district that had one Democrat since 1892

00:26:24.440 and put a little money into it, and I won.

00:26:27.320 And so I think if you want to govern this country,

00:26:30.340 you can't tell Montana they don't matter, or Idaho, or Mississippi.

00:26:35.300 And look, you and I both know this.

00:26:38.340 You also can't tell the Central Valley and things.

00:26:41.260 We're not.

00:26:42.060 Everybody thinks, oh, California's solid.

00:26:44.300 Quite the contrary.

00:26:45.380 Two-thirds of the map is deeply red.

00:26:47.320 I mean, it's just America only more so in California.

00:26:50.540 More hunters, more ranchers, more farmers than other states,

00:26:55.320 and still the largest manufacturing state in America.

00:26:57.660 People forget that as well.

00:26:58.940 So this notion of industrial policy that's worker-centered.

00:27:02.000 Well, I have to say, I appreciate it.

00:27:03.460 And you're going on talking to them, you know,

00:27:05.180 and I get frustrated with some of these folks, you know.

00:27:08.280 I get frustrated with the talking heads

00:27:10.680 and the folks who I think are bad actors.

00:27:12.500 I don't get frustrated with my neighbors who are voting that way.

00:27:15.880 I don't understand it as well, but I'm trying to get them,

00:27:19.580 you know, we have to figure out a way that we're not,

00:27:22.520 the Republicans have done a good job of this.

00:27:23.900 We're the enemy now.

00:27:24.820 Now we're in this situation where they see Russians 1.00

00:27:26.800 as being more trustworthy than us.

00:27:28.700 You know, that's a sad state to be in.

00:27:31.600 Unbelievable state, yes.

00:27:32.700 And I don't know, again, I don't know if I've got the ability

00:27:36.840 to bring back those 77 million.

00:27:38.980 I do believe we've got the ability to get the disenfranchised folks 1.00

00:27:42.000 who are seeing the damage here.

00:27:43.440 And I think that's really important because this is truly,

00:27:45.480 this isn't about winning elections.

00:27:46.680 This is about what's best for the country.

00:27:48.520 And you'll never convince me siding with Putin

00:27:50.660 and North Korea is good for the country

00:27:52.140 or fighting a trade war with Canada and Mexico is good for the country.

00:27:55.140 I don't buy it.

00:27:56.260 Yeah, friends.

00:27:56.880 And what more evidence do we need to underscore this notion of these principles

00:28:02.220 than what's happened today with the Alien Enemies Act 1700s

00:28:06.780 and the deportation and just the complaining.

00:28:10.800 I mean, this to me, of all the things that has happened

00:28:14.680 during the Trump administration,

00:28:15.540 the notion that you can completely disregard the federal court

00:28:20.200 and literally challenge the court and be, for me,

00:28:25.180 just blatantly in contempt of court.

00:28:28.160 I mean, that's the cornerstone of this constitutional democracy.

00:28:32.500 And here's what fascinates me is that came up.

00:28:34.860 I watched the Sunday talk shows yesterday.

00:28:36.980 It was all about what's wrong with the Democratic Party.

00:28:39.400 Why do we buy their arguments?

00:28:42.800 Why are we fighting fringe red herring issues

00:28:46.520 that get Democrats at Democrats,

00:28:50.620 that Democratic activists screaming at other Democrats?

00:28:54.020 How do we?

00:28:54.560 And I did it, Gavin.

00:28:55.520 I admitted it.

00:28:56.400 I took the dogs and cats argument and ran right with it.

00:28:59.340 And he sucked me in.

00:29:00.540 We have been in these issues where we may not all agree on all the issue,

00:29:04.500 but we buy their frame.

00:29:06.160 And then you have Democrats fighting against Democrats

00:29:08.280 and they sail above it.

00:29:09.960 They sail above it.

00:29:11.020 I mean, so then you don't want me to ask the Schumer question

00:29:13.180 and the shutdown because it falls right into that frame, doesn't it?

00:29:16.740 Yes.

00:29:17.020 Yes.

00:29:17.260 And having served in Congress, you're an executive.

00:29:19.840 You know what make the hard,

00:29:20.800 I put out a budget and everybody's angry with me.

00:29:23.340 All my friends, you know, including teachers

00:29:25.480 who I'm looking out for them, but you have to do these things.

00:29:28.940 But I think it's in the moment with this.

00:29:31.320 And I look, and this is where Democrats,

00:29:33.760 we actually care about the institutions

00:29:35.420 and we care about people.

00:29:36.900 Like, you know, my opinion on this is I believe Chuck 100% believes

00:29:41.460 that he made a decision that reduced the pain and the risk to Americans.

00:29:46.220 I see it now that we're in a point where I think we're in a new world.

00:29:49.780 That pain is coming anyway.

00:29:51.780 And I think-

00:29:52.060 I'm with you.

00:29:52.500 I'm with you.

00:29:53.420 Yeah.

00:29:53.700 And they think we gave up our leverage.

00:29:55.160 And to make it clear who owns this.

00:29:57.980 Because now to the American public who doesn't do this for a living

00:30:00.720 and is out doing their job, they said, well, they passed this budget

00:30:04.760 and they agreed with Donald Trump.

00:30:06.040 And now we all own that.

00:30:07.460 I think you should have made Donald Trump justify

00:30:09.420 why things were getting so bad.

00:30:11.220 And we as governors would do our best to protect the most vulnerable.

00:30:14.440 That seemed to me to be the fight we should have had.

00:30:16.860 But I think the public saying is,

00:30:18.600 you guys weren't even coordinated on that.

00:30:22.240 You know, you weren't.

00:30:23.440 We weren't.

00:30:25.440 And let me-

00:30:26.080 I mean, just let me ask you, as a party leader, are you-

00:30:28.300 I mean, there's this notion.

00:30:29.420 People say, well, what's the party doing?

00:30:30.860 Who is the party?

00:30:31.700 And I'm asking you.

00:30:32.440 I'm serious.

00:30:33.140 Is the party the DNC?

00:30:34.440 Is the party you and Harris?

00:30:36.200 Is the party-

00:30:36.980 Is it party-

00:30:37.740 Is it Chuck and Hakeem?

00:30:39.540 No.

00:30:39.840 Who is the party?

00:30:40.700 Is it the DGA?

00:30:41.720 No, I go back to it again, Gavin.

00:30:43.160 It's not a flippant remont.

00:30:44.260 It's the people.

00:30:45.860 And then in a democracy, they send people forward to be able to do this.

00:30:49.860 The party is not leadership.

00:30:51.340 The party is there to enable.

00:30:53.500 And I know for me, I wouldn't have got elected as a high school teacher with no connections,

00:30:59.080 no political experience, if I wouldn't have been able to go to Worthington, Minnesota,

00:31:03.420 and meet a woman named Deb Hokanson, who already knew how to organize a little get-together 1.00

00:31:08.280 and put me in front of 40 people and let me give my little speech.

00:31:11.700 I- That's what the party was supposed to do.

00:31:14.200 My job was to hear and reflect from them and then take our values and vote for them.

00:31:19.700 And I think we've gotten ourselves in this bind where we think there's going to be one

00:31:23.560 person.

00:31:23.920 Now, I want to be very clear about this.

00:31:26.060 It doesn't excuse any of us for not being organized, coordinated, thoughtful, delivering

00:31:31.340 a unified message.

00:31:32.480 And by the way, Tim, we're not doing that.

00:31:34.740 And you know we're not doing that.

00:31:35.920 I don't get calls.

00:31:36.940 I mean, we don't coordinate.

00:31:38.260 There's no deep coordinate.

00:31:40.060 Heck, even in our DGA meetings, let's have that conversation.

00:31:43.340 But we're not even focused on policy.

00:31:45.620 It's nice to see each other.

00:31:46.820 We have those side conversations.

00:31:48.480 We'll have panels.

00:31:49.960 And we will discuss in some respects some policy.

00:31:52.800 But at the gubernatorial level, when we're all together, we tend to be having tactical

00:31:57.820 conversations about elections.

00:31:59.700 We're probably more unified than anybody, too.

00:32:01.880 And we are ironically more unified.

00:32:04.040 Yeah.

00:32:04.540 We're not a caucus.

00:32:06.020 But and again, the folks who are out there, whether they're on social media or the folks

00:32:11.000 at the local coffee shop or whatever, they want us to have a unified message.

00:32:14.680 And here's where I really think they've missed in D.C. on this.

00:32:17.200 It does feel to me that despite those numbers, the Democratic Party is unified.

00:32:23.560 They're unified in being pissed off at the Democratic Party.

00:32:26.560 Oh, yeah.

00:32:27.000 Well, that's true.

00:32:27.900 And they are unified in that Donald Trump's policies are going to hurt people.

00:32:32.720 So I would argue, Gavin, that there's an argument in here.

00:32:35.680 And then I'm going to I'm going to I like him a lot.

00:32:38.860 And I think he's right.

00:32:39.900 I think Ezra Klein is giving us a bit of a road map here.

00:32:43.340 We blindly say all of our Democratic institutions.

00:32:47.200 And our government institutions are unquestionably working as well as they should.

00:32:52.100 We open it up.

00:32:53.180 We should be striving to do things better.

00:32:54.980 We should acknowledge I'm trying to do it here in Minnesota.

00:32:57.700 I'm not going to cut, you know, safeguards around permitting, but I will be the first

00:33:02.340 to acknowledge it takes us too long to permit projects.

00:33:05.020 There you go.

00:33:05.560 And it bogs down systems.

00:33:08.280 And I started, you know, we have to bring people in who, look, you're going to you're

00:33:11.800 going to cater to corporate interests or whatever.

00:33:14.160 No, I'm trying to make it easier to build a solar field and be able to get that out

00:33:18.040 there.

00:33:18.220 I'm trying to make it easier for somebody to bring in a new business, but not sacrifice

00:33:23.140 workers, safety, environmental safety and that.

00:33:26.000 And we don't acknowledge that enough, I don't think.

00:33:28.380 There you go.

00:33:29.000 And they you know how Republicans are.

00:33:30.760 I'll cut your taxes and, you know, we'll cut government spending.

00:33:34.080 But now you have all these stories, people saying, well, I voted for Trump and I wanted

00:33:38.740 them to cut government spending, but I didn't mean me.

00:33:41.180 I didn't mean my stuff.

00:33:42.920 We as Democrats have to connect that government does deliver positives, does deliver things.

00:33:48.460 But we also are we're fallible.

00:33:51.060 And and in some cases we get in the way.

00:33:53.740 So say it.

00:33:55.120 Yeah, I loved it.

00:33:56.300 I mean, we're by the way, we're going to have Ezra Klein on the podcast next week talking

00:34:00.120 specifically about this.

00:34:01.300 Tell him thanks for me, because I agree with him on this.

00:34:03.820 I think he's trying to figure out a better way that this isn't an all or nothing.

00:34:07.360 And this is an advantage for us because Republicans are telling people that all government stinks.

00:34:12.700 You're going to regret this.

00:34:13.820 And I was down in Iowa when the tornadoes are hitting.

00:34:16.140 It's really good to have weather forecasting.

00:34:18.740 Really?

00:34:19.500 And it makes no sense.

00:34:21.000 So tell that story.

00:34:22.600 It's important.

00:34:23.280 And look, I mean, for things to change, we have to change.

00:34:25.420 And I think we have to own what we can control the controllables.

00:34:28.660 And that's how we govern and be more effective.

00:34:30.860 And in so many ways, the world we invented is competing against us as it relates to the

00:34:35.680 paralysis of analysis and process years and years, as you say, to to not just, you know,

00:34:42.040 get a permit, but even to zone a solar project.

00:34:46.480 So this is not just about large factories spewing pollution.

00:34:50.000 This is also about the transition to low carbon green growth economy.

00:34:54.100 So I couldn't agree with your sentiment.

00:34:56.720 And I appreciate Ezra and others bringing that up.

00:35:00.060 Let me ask you, though, just broadly on the issue of the asymmetry, because we keep dancing

00:35:04.360 around this and there is an asymmetry in terms of the communication.

00:35:07.440 You talked about how you're perceived after this election, despite unprecedented amounts

00:35:12.480 of money that you guys spent, Harris, Walt, on campaign trying to define our brand, but how

00:35:18.820 successful they were defining us as opposed to Democrats defining them.

00:35:23.640 It's important to underscore.

00:35:25.020 And I don't think people appreciate this.

00:35:26.320 You look at podcasts, nine out of the 10 most influential podcasts skewed to the right.

00:35:31.220 Nine out of 10.

00:35:32.640 Thank you to the Podsafe folks for saving us, at least allowing us to fight.

00:35:37.820 You've got 14 of the 15 top rated TV shows, 14 of the 15 are on Fox.

00:35:45.240 You've got Sinclair Broadcasting that's filling that void with local newspapers with 185 plus

00:35:51.060 stations flooding the zone, coordinated attacks.

00:35:55.500 They're staying on message.

00:35:56.580 They're not allowing distractions to get them distracted.

00:35:59.740 And they're reinforcing a message.

00:36:03.540 That's, it seems to me, that should be a wake up call to the Democratic Party.

00:36:07.380 To figure that out.

00:36:09.900 Yeah, no.

00:36:10.320 And look, adjacent to this, Voice of America went silent today, which I tell you, having

00:36:17.140 listened to Voice of America, living in Asia in 89, I found out that the Berlin Wall fell

00:36:22.000 through Voice of America.

00:36:23.340 And there's a reason that they didn't want you to hear that when you're living in China,

00:36:27.040 because that's pretty threatening to their way of doing things.

00:36:30.580 So I think we haven't conveyed the power of that communication.

00:36:34.360 And as the landscape has changed so greatly, because look, I know you're taking a risk doing

00:36:39.760 a podcast, doing something to try and fill a void that's out there and hopefully trying

00:36:45.680 to use it as a platform to articulate our values to a different or broader audience.

00:36:50.660 But we've not figured this out yet.

00:36:53.300 And I don't, do I think we'd have won this election if we'd have gone on one of those

00:36:57.240 podcasts?

00:36:58.020 No, no, probably not.

00:36:59.580 But I don't think we'd have got beat by more.

00:37:02.560 No.

00:37:03.080 You know what I mean?

00:37:03.660 I don't think, I think it would have been a chance.

00:37:06.240 But I think any place we can go to talk about our values, the value of these town halls

00:37:12.720 too, Gavin, is that they slow things down and you can talk things through.

00:37:17.120 And I think at the end of the day, you start finding out, you know, there are people out

00:37:21.160 there saying, well, I didn't really realize that.

00:37:22.580 I didn't see it that way.

00:37:23.520 But we're as guilty of this too.

00:37:24.720 I want to go on to places where I get, you know, confirmation bias, which I already believe

00:37:29.640 it.

00:37:30.040 And then, of course, people turn to.

00:37:32.320 We've got to broaden it.

00:37:33.780 We've got to get to more people.

00:37:35.000 We've got to recognize the disconnect between our policies and how people view them.

00:37:39.520 And I think we always, this is just me, I'm going to say it, that I think somebody's got

00:37:43.760 to be big and strategic and macro.

00:37:46.700 I just look at every one of these issues through the individual lens, how it's impacting them.

00:37:51.040 And I try and stay in that space.

00:37:52.580 And I'll be the first to admit to you, I view most issues through the eyes of a teacher.

00:37:59.160 It's just who I am.

00:38:00.160 Like a thing when those kids come in the classroom, that means I view homelessness, food,

00:38:04.120 insecurity, you know, inclusion.

00:38:07.280 I view all of those things through the eye of a teacher, what it means to be in that.

00:38:10.580 Because I believe that that's the, in America, that's the great hope, the great equalizer,

00:38:15.720 the great experiment.

00:38:17.200 And so something in there we're missing in a pretty big way, obviously.

00:38:22.680 There's a type of soil in Mississippi called yazoo clay.

00:38:29.520 It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

00:38:33.600 It's terrible, terrible dirt.

00:38:35.240 Yazoo clay eats everything.

00:38:37.640 So things that get buried there tend to stay buried.

00:38:40.840 Until they're not.

00:38:42.780 In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

00:38:48.580 7,000 bodies out there, or more.

00:38:52.580 All former patients of the old state asylum.

00:38:55.800 And nobody knew they were there.

00:38:57.680 It was my family's mystery.

00:38:59.960 But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

00:39:04.420 Nobody talks about it.

00:39:06.100 Nobody has any information.

00:39:07.720 When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

00:39:13.000 The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

00:39:19.000 I'm Larison Campbell.

00:39:20.400 Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

00:39:27.940 Hi, friends.

00:39:29.560 Sophia Bush here, host of Work in Progress.

00:39:32.360 This week, we had such a special guest on the podcast.

00:39:36.080 My forever flotus, a mentor, a friend, a wife, a mother, an author, attorney, advocate, television producer,

00:39:44.500 and now she adds podcast host to the list herself. 0.79

00:39:49.120 Friends, Michelle Obama is here.

00:39:51.440 Sophia, I'm beyond thrilled to be able to sit down and chat with you.

00:39:55.440 We talk about it all.

00:39:56.800 Life, love, motherhood, martinis.

00:39:59.860 Vodka martini, dry, straight up, olives.

00:40:02.640 Ooh, olives.

00:40:03.760 Very cold.

00:40:05.120 My girl.

00:40:06.080 Barely any vermouth.

00:40:07.520 What's next?

00:40:08.740 What she's watching on TV. 0.54

00:40:10.740 I am a white lotuser. 0.76

00:40:12.260 I am a real housewives person.

00:40:15.060 I love the dating shows.

00:40:16.840 And tennis.

00:40:17.820 I just find that to be a bit meditative.

00:40:20.900 You do not want to miss this.

00:40:22.300 Listen to Work in Progress on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:40:28.120 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

00:40:29.540 And if you've ever felt the weight of letting go of people, past versions of yourself,

00:40:35.080 all the expectations placed on you, this episode is for you.

00:40:40.040 Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation, and finding real peace in a world that constantly tries to define you.

00:40:50.100 It's not me anymore.

00:40:51.500 Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me.

00:40:54.000 And that disconnect is depressing.

00:40:57.440 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

00:41:00.000 I think it's also hard when the things that you stand for are the same things that you're being scrutinized for.

00:41:08.060 The weight that is no longer on me is not just fat or physical.

00:41:13.140 I released so much to get to this point.

00:41:17.060 And to be honest with you, I don't feel like I've expressed myself fully in the last two years.

00:41:21.540 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:41:31.320 The number one hit true crime podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:41:38.200 Our first two series introduce you to an incredible gang of women who teamed up to fight injustice, 0.99

00:41:46.140 showing just how powerful sisterly solidarity can be.

00:41:49.620 We're keeping this mission alive with The Girlfriends Spotlight. 0.75

00:41:53.640 Each week, a different woman sits down with me, Anna Sinfield, 0.88

00:41:57.240 to share their incredible story of triumph over adversity.

00:42:01.480 Like Luanne, who was raised in a secretive religious community.

00:42:04.880 Do I want my freedom or do I want my family?

00:42:08.200 And found a way to escape.

00:42:09.920 When she said, you know you can leave, right?

00:42:12.660 It was a light bulb.

00:42:14.060 And now helps other women get out too. 1.00

00:42:16.540 I loved my girls.

00:42:17.900 I still love my girls.

00:42:19.120 So come and join our girl gang. 1.00

00:42:23.480 Listen to The Girlfriends Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:42:30.060 Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

00:42:39.160 Why is my cat not here?

00:42:40.460 And I go in and she's eating my lunch.

00:42:42.220 Or if hypnotism is real?

00:42:43.880 You will use the suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

00:42:47.420 Or what's inside a black hole?

00:42:49.120 Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.

00:42:52.220 Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Science Stuff.

00:42:56.680 Join me, Jorge Cham, as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies.

00:43:04.020 Questions like, can you survive being cryogenically frozen?

00:43:07.500 This is experimental.

00:43:08.680 This may never work for you.

00:43:10.260 What's a quantum computer?

00:43:11.680 It's not just a faster computer.

00:43:13.280 It performs in a fundamentally different way.

00:43:15.160 Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming?

00:43:18.300 It's not really a safety issue.

00:43:20.240 It's more of a comfort issue.

00:43:21.900 We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy-to-understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions.

00:43:27.860 So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Science Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:43:38.420 I think the biggest and the most alarming part of these polls is that people feel we're out of touch.

00:43:44.480 Yep.

00:43:44.960 And despite what I thought was an incredibly effective campaign in terms of highlighting the needs of the American people,

00:43:53.640 I thought just the importance of having you on the ticket to articulate exactly what you just articulated really reinforced and underscored the benefits of someone that is able to,

00:44:04.800 through your lived experience and through your eyes, be able to express what I think the vast majority of people embrace.

00:44:10.480 But, again, they're still not embracing what we're selling.

00:44:13.760 You think it's such an idea, Gavin?

00:44:14.640 You think it's because we appear weak?

00:44:16.520 Yeah.

00:44:16.900 Bill Clinton said it better than anyone years and years ago after schlacking.

00:44:20.060 Given the choice, I'm paraphrasing, the American people always support strong and wrong versus weak and right.

00:44:27.040 Because I saw it for me, and not that I spend much time thinking about this, and it just baffled me,

00:44:31.420 how much time they spent trying to attack me that I wasn't, like, masculine enough in their vision.

00:44:36.640 Like, I would have never believed this.

00:44:37.900 I saw Fox News did, like, a couple days because I used a straw.

00:44:42.120 And I'm like, hell, man, what am I, how else do you drink a milkshake type of thing?

00:44:46.140 But they focused on it obsessively, which I think, again, is their obsession, their weirdness.

00:44:52.200 We buy their frame on these issues of sexuality, you know.

00:44:55.420 But their whole thing was is that they spent all their time, these guys, on Fox News, that Walls is gay, he's not masculine.

00:45:02.480 You know, he doesn't coach football the way he should.

00:45:05.960 What do you think about this?

00:45:07.920 I mean, because there's a misogyny in here that's happening.

00:45:11.180 Yeah, well, but this notion of masculinity is deeply part of it.

00:45:15.000 That's one of the, I mean, I think it goes, you know, and you can look at the reasons why we've had this sort of dialectic over the Me Too movement.

00:45:22.220 We've had this dialectic even prior to the Me Too movement.

00:45:25.100 How do you fight it?

00:45:26.660 Well, this notion of tux. 1.00

00:45:28.100 I think I could kick most of their ass. 1.00

00:45:29.900 I do think that's what they want to do. 1.00

00:45:31.480 I know I cannot run them.

00:45:32.560 But I don't know if we're going to fall into that place where we want to, okay, we challenge you to a, you know, a WWE fight here type of thing.

00:45:40.020 But it is, it's a natural reaction.

00:45:41.660 I think it's one of the reasons we're losing so many men.

00:45:43.860 And again, it's multi-ethnic.

00:45:45.120 It's not just white men.

00:45:46.780 We're losing them.

00:45:47.720 We're losing them to these guys online.

00:45:49.260 We're losing people that I'm bringing on this podcast as well.

00:45:52.320 These are bad guys, though.

00:45:53.520 These are bad guys.

00:45:55.640 But they exist.

00:45:56.600 And we could deny they exist.

00:45:58.300 They exist.

00:45:58.780 Not only do they exist, they persist.

00:46:00.360 And they're actually influencing young kids every single day.

00:46:03.560 How do we push some of those guys back under a rock?

00:46:06.080 I think we have to first understand what their motivations are.

00:46:09.180 I think we have to understand what they're actually doing.

00:46:11.760 You don't think it's racism and misogyny?

00:46:13.560 I think there's a lot of that.

00:46:14.960 But I don't think it's exclusively that.

00:46:16.380 When you talk to a guy like Steve Bannon, you know, he reminded me a little bit of my

00:46:19.660 grandfather when he talks about working folks.

00:46:21.700 And he talks about how we hollowed out the industrial core of this country.

00:46:25.400 I understand that.

00:46:26.540 But so we can dismiss the notion of election denialism.

00:46:30.620 We could completely dismiss what he did on January 6th.

00:46:33.700 But I don't think you can dismiss what he's saying.

00:46:36.920 Reminds me a lot of what Bernie Sanders was saying.

00:46:38.720 Reminds me a lot of what Democrats said 20, 30 years ago.

00:46:42.000 He hates Musk, right?

00:46:43.960 He hates Musk.

00:46:44.480 He hates Musk.

00:46:45.160 He hates the oligarchy.

00:46:46.300 He totally agrees with you on the concentration of monopolistic powers.

00:46:49.940 He completely dismisses the notion that we should extend the tax cuts for corporations

00:46:54.740 and the very wealthy.

00:46:55.920 He thinks we should lower taxes for the middle class and wants to see increased taxes.

00:47:01.680 But how would people say we should message?

00:47:03.400 I can't message to misogynists.

00:47:05.440 I can't message that women shouldn't have you. 0.99

00:47:07.300 But I think if we say people are misogynists, then we're falling prey.

00:47:10.480 We're in that frame.

00:47:12.000 Not everybody that disagrees with us is a misogynist.

00:47:14.960 But I think this notion of toxicity and masculinity needs to be separated.

00:47:19.540 And I think it's been conflated.

00:47:21.020 And I think we're going to have to work on that a little bit.

00:47:24.600 I think some of us scare them.

00:47:25.920 I think I scare them a little bit why they spend so much time on it.

00:47:28.980 No, I'm serious because I can fix a truck.

00:47:31.000 They know I'm not bullshitting on this.

00:47:32.900 I'm not putting this in people's grill.

00:47:34.660 I don't know if my identity is not hunting.

00:47:37.480 My identity is not football coaching.

00:47:40.280 My identity is not, you know, a beard and a truck.

00:47:43.420 I like all those things.

00:47:45.660 But how did we get to this where have they figured it out that the identity piece of

00:47:49.960 this is more important than the actual substance behind it?

00:47:52.520 Well, they've been doing it for decades.

00:47:53.860 I mean, we've saw the welfare queens. 0.80

00:47:56.100 They've seen the Southern strategy.

00:47:57.520 We've seen it over and over.

00:47:58.660 It's an old playbook. 0.96

00:47:59.580 And we're as dumb as we want to be that we allow them to do this with CRT and ESG and 0.94

00:48:03.660 DEI and every three-letter word. 0.98

00:48:05.300 And then they demonize people.

00:48:06.320 Yeah, demonize and they weaponize grievance. 0.98

00:48:08.860 They other people.

00:48:09.860 They talk down to people, pass people.

00:48:11.700 They humiliate people.

00:48:12.840 They weaponize difficult issues.

00:48:14.940 But the problem line is, and I think it goes back to what we began with, is, and I applaud

00:48:19.140 you for this, is we cannot continue to be on the defense reacting to this.

00:48:24.260 We've got to go on the offense.

00:48:25.800 We've got to meet people where they are.

00:48:27.220 But I also think this, and this is where, you know, this is part of the conversation

00:48:32.940 I'm trying to have, is you've got to respect people you disagree with, even, and you can't

00:48:38.820 just dismiss people.

00:48:40.520 We can't just turn our back on people.

00:48:42.240 What'd you learn from those guys?

00:48:43.900 That not only do they have a huge following, there's a rationale.

00:48:46.900 There's a rationale.

00:48:47.560 Look, for Steve Bannon, I'm not here to defend Steve Bannon.

00:48:50.140 I couldn't agree with you more as it relates to what he did on election denialism.

00:48:54.660 And, you know, look, that guy that he is, there's, we could spend hours and hours going

00:48:59.140 down the rabbit hole of Steve Bannon.

00:49:01.300 But what he's talking about in terms of populism, what he's talking about in terms of working

00:49:05.320 folks, what he's talking about from a global construct about what's happened to middle

00:49:09.300 America and rural Americans and why they've lost trust with our party, what he's talking

00:49:13.180 about with what's happening with men in this country and how they've lost their way

00:49:16.800 and how they have significantly higher suicide rates, lives of that, you know, more despair

00:49:21.680 and isolation.

00:49:22.480 I think those are real issues that our party needs to come to grips with.

00:49:26.340 How did their populism win out over ours?

00:49:27.940 Because I'm actually a prairie populist.

00:49:29.900 But I think we stopped talking about those things.

00:49:32.320 We're not talking about what's going on with men in this country.

00:49:34.540 My wife did a documentary called The Mask You Live In 15 years ago, was talking about these

00:49:40.220 things.

00:49:40.520 Somehow, I don't know what happened.

00:49:42.340 The party never picked up on these core things.

00:49:44.760 There's trend line.

00:49:45.340 I mean, Scott Galloway gets it.

00:49:47.140 He's, you know, he's a good guy across the board.

00:49:49.940 There's a crisis of men and masculinity in this country.

00:49:53.720 And that's a hard thing for Democrats because we want to lift up women. 1.00

00:49:56.700 We want to lift up the oppressed.

00:49:58.400 Do you think some of that comes from the dread as we lift up?

00:50:00.320 I always use this analogy that there's a whole bunch of people, Gavin, that see rights like

00:50:04.860 a pie.

00:50:05.620 If somebody gets some, they lose part of their pie.

00:50:08.900 Yeah. 0.98

00:50:09.240 Ridiculous. 0.97

00:50:09.680 It's not that way. 0.89

00:50:10.760 Expanding rights that there's no one.

00:50:13.020 I keep coming back to that idea and this idea of freedom that, well, that can be everybody.

00:50:19.600 I don't know why they're in these small, little, narrow, divisive issues other than I think

00:50:25.320 some of these people are masterful at it so they can get to their true goal, which is

00:50:28.320 to cut taxes for the wealthy and shift wealth in their direction.

00:50:31.780 Yeah.

00:50:31.960 And by the way, and concurrently increase taxes for the middle class and the poor.

00:50:36.140 And people forget that some of the highest tax play.

00:50:38.680 I mean, I live in a state and like your state, uh, I mean, look exactly, by the way, which

00:50:45.240 what Bannon is arguing for, which is interesting and ironic considering some of the punditry.

00:50:49.980 But let me just, you know, make this point because it needs to be made in Florida and Texas,

00:50:53.560 uh, they tax their poorest more than we tack our, our rich.

00:50:57.760 A hundred percent.

00:50:58.400 How the hell are we losing this tax debate?

00:51:00.800 Yes.

00:51:01.060 Who are you for?

00:51:02.260 A hundred percent.

00:51:02.820 You'll pay more.

00:51:03.540 You and other high tax states, apparently. 0.68

00:51:05.280 And they have higher infant mortality, higher maternal mortality, lower wages.

00:51:10.520 They have lower insured, lower life expectancy, everything.

00:51:13.980 And by the way, 71, I'm going to keep going.

00:51:16.020 71% of the economy in this country are in Metro, blue Metro.

00:51:19.680 So point being, we, we, it's not that we're not right, but I think we're wrong not to understand

00:51:26.760 more deeply and fully that people think we are deeply full of ourselves and we're talking

00:51:32.640 down to people and past people.

00:51:35.020 People want to be protected.

00:51:36.540 They want to be respected and they want to be connected.

00:51:39.420 And I think this notion of respect is something that keeps coming back to me.

00:51:42.920 People that, that just feel like we don't respect them.

00:51:46.660 How do we do that though, Kevin?

00:51:48.060 And, and, and, and lay down a clear marker that, that you're, you're not going to demonize

00:51:52.520 LGBTQ people.

00:51:53.700 We're not going to, how do we lay that marker down?

00:51:55.940 Because, because I'm not going to get into their, their space with them of that.

00:51:59.340 That's what a man looks like, you know, demonizing these, how do we stay firm, show that we're,

00:52:05.180 we're committed and, and not compromise on those values that we care about.

00:52:09.300 I mean, we continue to do what we, you and I have done.

00:52:12.040 We've led the nation in terms of, of laws, anti-discrimination laws.

00:52:15.660 We have the back of our diverse communities.

00:52:17.340 We don't just rhetorically say that we've done it through laws and regulations.

00:52:21.100 We stand firm at the same time, you know, with respect.

00:52:25.260 And this is where obviously I, you know, I've, I've kind of, it's not like even a break.

00:52:29.280 I just think there's, there are areas where we may overreach.

00:52:33.840 And I think we have to acknowledge that as well.

00:52:35.900 And if you don't acknowledge that, then I think you're going to lose people on everything else.

00:52:39.340 I mean, I look at the issue of gay marriage and remember I was in 2004 when our party was

00:52:43.540 dismissing me because I sat and I said it was wrong to deny people the right to get married

00:52:49.740 or that they weren't in the same sex.

00:52:51.460 And my party vehemently opposed that.

00:52:54.420 And they were very vocal about it.

00:52:55.980 The major leaders in our party.

00:52:57.660 I remember this.

00:52:58.260 I ran on it in 2006 in a conservative district.

00:53:01.180 God bless you.

00:53:02.000 And stood on principle.

00:53:03.400 Are we not doing that enough right now?

00:53:05.120 No, we are doing that.

00:53:06.140 We continue to do that.

00:53:07.180 I think we're firm in our foundation in terms of supporting our diverse communities.

00:53:11.020 It's not that.

00:53:11.800 I think there's a broader message and there's a whole, there's a whole world out there.

00:53:15.780 That's not just about protecting those rights.

00:53:18.880 It's about also acknowledging the pain that other people are feeling that often are not

00:53:23.380 part of our rhetoric and our agenda.

00:53:25.520 And that's what I think we need to explore.

00:53:27.860 I think you're hitting on it.

00:53:28.400 I'm curious to listen.

00:53:29.580 I want to listen to Ezra next week because I think that's the other thing that I think

00:53:33.500 we talk a lot and we have to deliver more.

00:53:35.420 You've delivered.

00:53:36.020 I think we've delivered in Minnesota.

00:53:37.120 And I've seen this.

00:53:37.980 When you deliver on things that improve people's lives, it's amazing how good the politics is

00:53:42.960 behind that.

00:53:43.680 If you have good policies and get things done.

00:53:46.240 And part of that is I think where Ezra's getting that is, is, is do your best work,

00:53:49.880 but acknowledge, you know, really this agency's not doing that much for people.

00:53:53.480 I mean, like I'm doing this thing, just, just simple things to make them getting their

00:53:57.680 driver's license easier.

00:53:58.800 You and I both deal with this, the DMV.

00:54:00.680 Like I'm, I'm trying to fight.

00:54:01.940 Why do we make them go every year?

00:54:03.460 Maybe we should go every two years, you know, just something that people want to see.

00:54:07.660 We did this thing where you can now get your license tabs through a vending machine

00:54:12.980 at Cub Foods.

00:54:13.820 So you just go up there, it takes you two minutes, you put in your stuff and it spits

00:54:17.360 out your tabs.

00:54:18.040 You put your tabs on.

00:54:19.340 That one to me is as conservatives are like, good.

00:54:21.720 I didn't have to deal with government.

00:54:22.900 It was efficient.

00:54:23.540 It was easy, but that was government, but it was good functioning government.

00:54:27.460 That's it.

00:54:27.780 And that's, that's we, so you were doge before doge without the pejorative sense of

00:54:32.040 doge, which is not about that.

00:54:33.380 It's about, that's about recklessness.

00:54:35.100 That's just about destroying the administrative state. 0.51

00:54:38.020 But what you're talking about is government efficiency, focusing on outcomes, not just

00:54:41.680 inputs, meaning customers where they are, which I love.

00:54:45.220 And that's got to be part of our core messaging.

00:54:47.540 And I think that's our challenge with doge is we're reacting to doge by saying it's all

00:54:51.880 terrible, which it, it has been to date, but this notion of government efficiency.

00:54:56.720 It works so well for them because people believe that.

00:54:58.720 And look, it's been 40 years since, you know, your predecessor, Reagan told them, you know,

00:55:03.240 you don't want to see government coming.

00:55:04.640 Government can be a great force of good, whether it's protecting your personal rights, whether

00:55:08.320 it's an image, look good for SpaceX.

00:55:10.600 I hope they succeed, but let's be clear.

00:55:12.220 SpaceX stands on the shoulders of NASA giants, and that's our taxpayer dollars that did that.

00:55:16.940 There are great things, but I've always been a firm believer.

00:55:19.580 We can do the research, send it into the private sector, let them improve, you know, monetize

00:55:23.740 it and help people as long as there's guardrails.

00:55:26.360 I think we find ourselves now pushing back anything that's business oriented.

00:55:32.020 We're kind of negative too.

00:55:33.560 I feel I'm hearing it from the business community.

00:55:35.420 Look, like they're, they don't like Trump right now.

00:55:38.120 They're not being courageous enough, in my opinion, to speak out, but they don't like this.

00:55:42.380 But they also say, well, I don't hear a lot from you guys saying that, you know, you're,

00:55:46.380 these businesses added to the cultural, you know, tapestry of Minneapolis by far.

00:55:51.560 I thought, I thought it was a masterclass.

00:55:55.000 It offended all of us.

00:55:56.400 It offended me, but also I thought it was a masterclass to have all those folks up there 0.99

00:56:00.060 on stage.

00:56:00.640 I mean, Trump was able to communicate without saying a word, his support for free enterprise

00:56:05.660 the same, same time.

00:56:06.820 It was, I thought, you know, it was kind of humiliating for those folks that felt they

00:56:10.600 had to go up there.

00:56:11.560 You think it was fear that they were up there for though?

00:56:13.100 Yeah, of course.

00:56:13.920 I mean, they had to fall in line.

00:56:15.160 I mean, this guy doesn't play by any rules and that's why he has more options.

00:56:18.440 Democrats can't govern by fear.

00:56:19.900 But I've said this to you, Gavin, I taught fourth grade.

00:56:23.040 Fear is an incredible short-term motivator.

00:56:26.280 It's right.

00:56:26.780 You change behaviors though, for the long run.

00:56:30.420 What are we going to have to do?

00:56:31.920 You know, you feel this excitement, you have these rallies, but what's that translating

00:56:35.120 into?

00:56:36.120 You know, what's that turning into?

00:56:37.940 Well, I think, I mean, look, back to, I think this forensic, it's not just tactical.

00:56:42.320 It's not just about, you know, how we can sort of just stretch and get another 20,

00:56:45.820 30,000 votes in these swing states.

00:56:48.040 I mean, I think it's, I think it's an opportunity for us to address some of the issues we just

00:56:51.700 discussed.

00:56:52.260 I love that you said this.

00:56:53.440 You can't be pro-job and anti-business.

00:56:55.700 I mean, you, you made a case for entrepreneurialism and innovation and research and development.

00:56:59.880 I love that.

00:57:00.680 I want the Democrats to talk more about that.

00:57:03.380 I want us to talk more about not begrudging people's success, but celebrating success.

00:57:08.260 This would be the aspirational party.

00:57:10.700 I want to talk about patriotism and pride.

00:57:13.820 Not just our, and, and, and, and sorry, God, but just, you know, back to Clinton.

00:57:18.320 I love what Bill Clinton said when he talked about community opportunity and responsibility.

00:57:22.880 I think we don't talk enough about responsibility and I appreciated the opportunity agenda.

00:57:29.520 I appreciate our focus on community and building community, but what about responsibility?

00:57:33.940 What about service?

00:57:34.960 What about civics?

00:57:35.920 What about these notions of things that bind us together?

00:57:39.280 Yeah.

00:57:39.420 All our interesting differences.

00:57:41.020 We're good at focusing on interesting differences, but what about the things that unite us together?

00:57:45.700 I think that's what people want to hear from our party.

00:57:48.960 People want to be part of something.

00:57:50.440 And that's why they're on with Trump.

00:57:52.240 They're part of something.

00:57:52.980 They're part of a team.

00:57:53.700 I've always said this in high school.

00:57:56.360 I did everything.

00:57:57.760 I coached all the sports.

00:57:59.080 I worked on the play, the musical.

00:58:01.360 I sponsored the student trips.

00:58:03.820 I built the prom.

00:58:05.140 I did all of that because what I understood was, is kids will gravitate to groups and it's

00:58:10.060 better to be in the musical than in a gang.

00:58:12.960 It's better to be with this group of kids in school.

00:58:15.720 So we know this, if a kid is part of something, they do that.

00:58:18.780 And I'm telling you, this disenfranchisement with men, this not being there, whatever,

00:58:23.440 they might have played on football teams.

00:58:25.200 I think Trump gives them that feeling that I'm on the team.

00:58:28.280 I wear the same colors.

00:58:30.060 I do all this.

00:58:30.820 I don't look.

00:58:32.100 You can laugh all you want about red hats. 1.00

00:58:33.740 People like those damn things, don't they? 0.99

00:58:35.720 And maybe some of it's sticking it in our grill. 1.00

00:58:38.020 But I think it's being part of something bigger than themselves.

00:58:40.840 And right now, the Democratic Party doesn't feel like something bigger than themselves.

00:58:44.260 And that's our whole goal.

00:58:46.160 Community.

00:58:46.900 I love it.

00:58:47.780 No, look, and that's why I'm such a believer in service, such a believer in shared experiences.

00:58:53.280 And I'm trying to copy what you did on the service stuff.

00:58:55.380 I said, Stanley McChrystal, you, there's a few folks out there talking about this.

00:58:59.720 You know, you service learning and these types of things, stuff I've been interested in too.

00:59:03.560 From the teacher perspective, if you do that, you are so engaged in your community.

00:59:08.080 Now, we celebrate and we rightfully should those who join and serve in the military.

00:59:12.820 But there's numerous ways to serve your country.

00:59:15.440 You got it.

00:59:15.860 It's not in uniform.

00:59:17.100 And I'm thinking as we become more fragmented, our media becomes more fragmented.

00:59:22.040 Our TV becomes more fragmented.

00:59:24.400 People want to be part of something.

00:59:26.160 And I think Trump knew that before us.

00:59:27.900 And he brought them into that.

00:59:29.560 And I, you know, that's why you in the catchphrases and stuff, it may seem cheesy, but we're missing it.

00:59:34.700 We're missing where people are not wanting to become part of something.

00:59:39.580 I said the universality of this notion of being protected and respected, but back to your point, 100% agree, connected.

00:59:47.240 We all need to be connected.

00:59:48.800 There's an unmooring that's going on in society.

00:59:51.180 There's, I mean, people just feel lost.

00:59:53.600 They feel more isolated.

00:59:54.820 They feel more alone.

00:59:55.980 And again, particularly for young men.

00:59:57.760 And so I just think we have to acknowledge that.

01:00:00.220 We have to address that.

01:00:01.260 We have to be sensitive to that.

01:00:02.960 And we have to be willing to have those conversations and not feel like we're playing into the right wing when we're having those conversations.

01:00:09.260 And the politics will follow that.

01:00:11.000 Yeah.

01:00:11.380 And the politics, go back to what you said, which I love, man.

01:00:14.920 It's just the principle.

01:00:16.060 Like what I love about you, and, you know, and we're out of time, so I'm just going to end with just mad respect, is you're a man of principle.

01:00:24.380 You're a man of values.

01:00:25.540 You're a decent and honorable person.

01:00:27.760 Forget the politician.

01:00:29.480 What I love about the politician, Governor Walz, is that you're all of those things I just said before the word politician.

01:00:37.060 I appreciate it.

01:00:38.240 No, and we'll find the political way back.

01:00:41.040 But I think we have to have some humility in terms of where we are.

01:00:46.640 And I think we can't be, I just think we have to be careful about being too dismissive of where they are and the progress they've made.

01:00:54.460 And I know you broadly agree with that.

01:00:57.120 And I think the vast majority of people do.

01:00:58.920 But I think we're, this is an existential moment.

01:01:01.940 And our unity against Trump is not increasing our trust.

01:01:06.140 It's not helping the Democratic brand.

01:01:09.000 You know, the more we attack Trump, which is great.

01:01:10.720 I mean, we've got to do it.

01:01:11.840 We've got to hold them to account.

01:01:13.420 And people, you hear it.

01:01:14.360 What did you say?

01:01:14.820 The primal screams.

01:01:16.360 Yeah.

01:01:16.740 We've got to offer them something.

01:01:18.060 We've got to offer them.

01:01:18.400 But we have to, exactly.

01:01:19.740 And that's what we need, too, I think.

01:01:22.480 That's the soul searching that we need.

01:01:24.580 We have to be the Vikings to their Packers, is what I would say, Gavin.

01:01:29.880 We've got to get people in.

01:01:32.980 And I think I would say to your listeners and everybody out there that we're going to have to ruffle feathers.

01:01:38.760 We, as Democrats, aren't going to agree on everything.

01:01:40.980 But our values are still there.

01:01:42.580 And we have to figure out how to have that.

01:01:44.060 And I would ask, you know, a frustrated and scared, to be honest with you, scared electorate, to stay engaged.

01:01:50.280 They are.

01:01:50.720 That's what they're showing up in those town halls.

01:01:52.740 And then I would encourage our folks to listen and rise to the moment and do the things that we need to do to get back.

01:02:00.120 Not to win elections, but to influence policy in a positive way.

01:02:04.100 So I'm grateful.

01:02:04.800 I know you've got a big job.

01:02:05.640 You govern a country and you and I both have day jobs, which we can't forget.

01:02:13.560 But look, this notion of a big tent, a big tent.

01:02:16.600 That's what that's what built the middle class in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

01:02:20.380 What's brought us Medicaid and Medicare.

01:02:22.160 That's what brought us the minimum wage as we know it today.

01:02:24.740 It was a big tent.

01:02:25.820 Lean into labor unions.

01:02:27.140 Lean into labor unions.

01:02:28.320 And labor. 0.69

01:02:29.440 It's got to be worker centered.

01:02:31.060 Industrial policy that's worker centered.

01:02:33.580 That's Tim Walsh.

01:02:35.080 My guest today here on the, this is Gavin Newsom Show.

01:02:38.840 Thank you, Governor.

01:02:39.400 It's great to have you.

01:02:40.580 Thanks so much.

01:02:50.420 In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.

01:02:54.280 7,000 bodies out there.

01:02:57.240 Or more.

01:02:57.620 A forgotten asylum cemetery.

01:02:59.620 It was my family's mystery.

01:03:02.260 Shame.

01:03:03.240 Guilt.

01:03:04.120 Propriety.

01:03:05.260 Something keeps it all buried deep.

01:03:07.820 Until it's not.

01:03:09.580 I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay.

01:03:13.540 Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:03:18.120 What's up?

01:03:19.820 I'm Laura, host of the podcast Courtside with Laura Carrente, a masterclass case study of

01:03:24.500 the business of women's sports.

01:03:26.060 I'll be chatting with leaders like tennis icon Alana Klaus.

01:03:29.340 I don't do what I do only for women. 0.97

01:03:31.420 I do it for everyone.

01:03:32.560 And I want the whole market.

01:03:34.360 And innovators like Jenny Wynn.

01:03:36.620 I would say 50% of the people that come visit the sports bra aren't sports fans.

01:03:41.040 They come to be in community.

01:03:42.640 They come to be part of this culture.

01:03:44.960 Courtside with Laura Carrente is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with

01:03:49.480 Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

01:03:51.520 Listen to Courtside with Laura Carrente on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

01:03:55.760 you get your podcasts.

01:03:57.920 Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

01:04:02.080 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

01:04:03.660 This episode, Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation, and finding

01:04:10.320 real peace in a world that constantly tries to define you.

01:04:14.320 It's not me anymore.

01:04:15.720 Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me.

01:04:18.440 And that disconnect is depressing.

01:04:21.860 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

01:04:25.100 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

01:04:30.600 you get your podcasts.

01:04:31.640 The number one hit podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, The Girlfriends

01:04:37.240 Spotlight, where each week you'll hear women share their stories of triumph over adversity.

01:04:43.340 You'll meet June, who founded an all-female rock band in the 1960s.

01:04:47.700 I might as well have said, we're going to walk on the moon.

01:04:50.840 But she showed them who's boss. 1.00

01:04:52.420 They would rush up and say, not bad for chicks. 1.00

01:04:55.440 Come and join our girl gang. 1.00

01:04:58.720 Listen to The Girlfriends Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

01:05:03.720 you get your podcasts.

01:05:05.040 Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

01:05:12.060 Why is my cat not here?

01:05:13.380 And I go in and she's eating my lunch.

01:05:15.120 Or if hypnotism is real?

01:05:16.800 You will use a suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

01:05:20.340 But what's inside a black hole?

01:05:22.020 Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.

01:05:25.340 Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Science Stuff.

01:05:29.320 Join me, Jorge Cham, as we answer questions about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies.

01:05:34.740 So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Science Stuff on the iHeartRadio

01:05:39.520 app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Gavin Newsom - March 18, 2025

And, This is Governor Tim Walz

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript