This week on Dear Chelsea, Maren Morris joins Chelsea Handler to talk about her new podcast, Camp Shame, and her new venture, Merit Street Media, with Dr. Phil McGraw. Plus, Gavin Newsom joins Chelsea to discuss why he thinks the media is obsessed with family values.
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00:03:21.340And I've been eager to have this conversation because I've been watching a number of your conversations.
00:03:27.100You've been having very public conversations, but also just in the media and obviously now with your own new Merit Street media enterprise.
00:03:36.200It's really interesting to read the punditry and try to read between the lines.
00:07:27.620And I want to go back to your consistency on the the notion of family and the challenges there.
00:07:35.220And I'm curious, just, you know, over the last few decades, I imagine people tried to pull you in 20 years ago, pull you into their campaigns, pull you into their rallies, pull you into their point of view.
00:07:47.940So, you know, were you you were you tempted 10 years ago to find your way into this or have you really always tried to sort of maintain a status above and, you know, sort of separate and above?
00:08:04.620You know, people made a lot of it when I went to the Trump rally at Madison Square Garden, you know, this time around.
00:08:13.760But if if people listen to what I said, I started my comments and remarks during that appearance by saying, I'm not here to endorse President Trump.
00:08:30.440I don't agree with everything he says or everything he does.
00:08:34.980I said the first things out of my mouth, if you go back and listen to what I said, is I'm not here to endorse him.
00:08:42.840I don't agree with everything he says and does.
00:08:46.320What I don't like is people bullying those and ostracizing those who do support and say they're going to vote for him.
00:08:56.980And I said, I'll give this identical speech at a Harris rally and volunteered to do so.
00:09:05.720And they actually contacted me and talked to me about doing exactly that.
00:11:12.660No, well, I mean, it's, you know, the answer is no unless you ask.
00:11:16.480And so I certainly appreciate the fact that they were able to diversify the number of voices that were participating in not only those rallies,
00:11:25.600but, you know, some a little more toxic than others, including at that rally, sort of infamously.
00:11:34.900Well, you're just jumping right into that.
00:11:37.680I want to jump first, though, into what you just launched, which was Merit Street Media.
00:11:43.140And so after 21 ridiculously successful years running your own show, you decided to move and did this pivot.
00:11:52.320You did it as well, writing a book that goes to a lot of the issues that you're raising, including on the issue of family called We've Got Issues.
00:12:00.040But tell us a little bit more, because I'm not sure everybody is fully familiar with this larger media company,
00:12:06.160not just sort of the work you're doing as a host yourself, but what you're trying to achieve in Merit Street.
00:12:12.120Well, you know, I did spend 21 years at CBS, and I have to say it was a wonderful experience.
00:12:24.680And I made wonderful relationships at CBS.
00:12:32.780They'll forever be a warm place in my heart and got nothing but good things to say about my experience there.
00:13:40.040I was sitting in our kitchen in California, where we were living at the time, and I was flipping back and forth.
00:13:48.680Robin and I were sitting there having dinner, and we were kind of flipping back and forth and going from one kind of news channel to another news channel to another news channel.
00:13:58.200And I was really frustrated by saying, you know, this is so much propaganda, so much spin.
00:14:42.800And, you know, that was really the genesis of it, because I wanted to own the debate lane in America.
00:14:51.040I wanted to have a platform where I could bring two sides together or three sides or four sides if necessary to give people the facts and let them make up their own mind.
00:15:05.520And, you know, because it's such a big issue in California, homelessness, for example, there are more than two sides to homelessness.
00:15:18.880People have different theories about how to resolve this.
00:15:22.780You know, why is housing so expensive?
00:15:27.100Do you do home first or do you work on getting people back on their feet and they earn their right?
00:19:26.480It was really actually like a horror movie.
00:19:28.740In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long.
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00:20:18.900And at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be.
00:20:24.600These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be Boy Sober to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships.
00:20:36.220I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other.
00:20:41.040It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together.
00:21:36.680Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives.
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00:23:14.640Not that I stress tested what you've been saying along these lines, not specific to the conflict in the Middle East, but more broadly about trying to find a lane of a little bit more balance.
00:23:29.040I watched specifically your 100-day analysis of the Trump administration, and I thought it was extraordinarily fair.
00:23:36.280You made some points that were, you know, were very, not revelatory to me, but I thought important to make, particularly on the issue of immigration, of which you received criticism.
00:23:47.600At the same time, you're hardly anti-immigrant, but you made a point on that 100-day show that I think underscores the point you're trying to make.
00:23:55.660And that is what is omitted often in our discourse, particularly in some of these platforms and these cable shows, is the fact that the Biden administration was deporting, has been, at least through a period that marked, I think, around February, more people being deported on the Biden administration than even the Trump administration.
00:24:15.120Not something you see, not something you see necessarily on some of these cable shows, in order to sort of highlight and reinforce the importance of not just misinformation or disinformation, but what is omitted from our conversation.
00:24:31.320No, listen, we're embedded with ICE, and they've allowed us full access at Merit TV.
00:24:40.760And let me tell you, when I say full access, there are no guidelines.
00:24:45.620Now, to be completely fair, there are some rules in terms of not disclosing certain investigatory techniques that they have, but other than not disclosing things that might put agents' lives in danger, there are no rules.
00:25:09.140We can show every case, they're not cherry-pick cases, and we're able to show everything that is going on.
00:25:20.180And I just watched the mischaracterization, and I've come to know Tom Homan very well.
00:25:25.920This is a very sincere and compassionate man, and they have three primary goals.
00:25:37.100They talk about, these cable networks talk about they're going in and sweeping neighborhoods, and kind of anybody with a tan is subject to getting picked up.
00:28:17.560We've let millions of people into this country without knowing who they are.
00:28:20.860And clearly, some of those are on a terror watch list, and they're here now.
00:28:26.880And I think everything you said, Dr. Phil, I think the vast majority of people would find particularly rational.
00:28:35.540But you have to acknowledge, and I don't say this lightly, I say this with intimate familiarity.
00:28:41.360I mean, we've had, quote-unquote, wellness checks in the public schools.
00:28:45.020We've had some folks that are going to immigration courts that are being picked up in and around immigration courts.
00:28:50.520There's been a chilling impact across the country, not just in states like California, but a lot of day laborers picked up in California.
00:28:58.200We had a federal judge intervene under a lawsuit and actually admonished some of the Border Patrol for their activities in respect to that or ICE.
00:29:09.040But I do appreciate there's an intensity of anxiety and a lot of rhetoric that is thrown around that is not nuanced.
00:29:21.560And I don't know that the president himself is aiding and embedding in finding some common ground here.
00:29:28.020He uses some pretty extreme language, which I think kind of chills the conversation and chills, I think,
00:29:33.900our capacity to sort of find some common ground on legitimate concerns around border security
00:29:39.200and thoughtful and comprehensive strategies to get the best and the brightest from around the world.
00:29:46.140Well, I think there's a right way and a wrong way to get into the country.
00:29:49.520And I don't think these people are being picked up that are here legally.
00:29:54.660And if they are here legally, then they don't have anything to worry about.
00:29:59.200If they came in illegally, not at a point of entry, then they are subject to being removed.
00:30:06.280That in and of itself is a crime, is it not?
00:30:28.100Yeah, it may be that may be the policy, but that's not necessarily the practice as it relates to those that are here without documentation.
00:30:36.580I mean, you know, you've got folks from Luke Gingrich that was supporting amnesty in 1985.
00:30:42.560Reagan himself that did the amnesty bill shortly thereafter.
00:30:46.200And and obviously we've got to address those that have been here for decades.
00:30:50.100I don't imagine we want to get all of them because they're going on here illegally and send them and deport them all back.
00:30:57.100I do not imagine you're arguing for that.
00:31:18.400We need to fix that 100 percent when when you've got somebody that maybe they have a legitimate reason, a compelling reason to get out of their home country for for safety reasons, for fear of of of violence from gangs or whatever.
00:31:36.600And so they make application to the United States and we say, great, you know, here's a here here's a court date in 2032.
00:32:52.860And and I hate these sanctuary guidelines where they will not cooperate with ICE agents to get someone that is currently in custody, which means they've broken the law.
00:33:07.960And local law enforcement has had reason to pick them up and and detain them.
00:33:15.960If you tell ICE about that and they can come get them and take them out at that point, you're going to have a whole lot less of the people you're talking about get arrested when they go into the community.
00:33:27.880Then you have one ICE agent on one bad actor and they're gone.
00:33:33.280If they have to go into the neighborhood, they're going to arrest that person and they're going to check everybody that's around them.
00:33:42.660Well, I mean, in California, I can only speak for myself as governor.
00:33:46.100We've we've cooperated in that respect with folks that are in custody in state prisons, over 10,000 specific examples of of that kind of cooperation.
00:33:58.680I guess I'm just more concerned about the larger rhetoric that everyone's here, quote unquote, illegally, which I get on the technical terms.
00:34:04.540But the notion of what the heck we do about it, I agree with you on comprehensive need for a comprehensive reforms.
00:34:11.440And there's been all kinds of bills rejected by both parties to address this issue.
00:34:17.980There was a bipartisan immigration package that Rubio himself, among many others, supported to deal with immigration backlogs and judges and address some of those concerns.
00:34:28.260But they seem to get just watered down or eliminated because of the toxicity of our politics.
00:34:33.440And that's my concern now is how the hell do we soften that edge, which I think you want, so we can find unity and common ground and unify the country, which you talk a lot about.
00:34:44.020But how do we begin to do that in a more rational way?
00:34:48.120I mean, I think rhetoric still matters.
00:34:55.340And, you know, when I see things happening, and I see it a lot with the death threats and hate speech and rhetoric that I get when I come out and condemn what happened on October 7th in Israel.
00:35:16.240By the way, just for the record, I flew to Israel right after the 7th and met with leadership.
00:35:24.200We actually brought a hospital, a field hospital with us.
00:36:01.580I think the rhetoric has gotten way out of control.
00:36:04.380When you shoot two people on the street in Washington, D.C., outside a museum, Milgram, the young woman, she grew up in Overland Park, Kansas.
00:36:24.120I mean, this is not an activist that is really driving the story here.
00:36:30.400And the young man was an Israeli Christian, for God's sakes.
00:36:40.760And they killed these two people and then start yelling, free Palestine, free Palestine.
00:36:47.200Can I say that those shootings were due to out-of-control and fiery rhetoric?
00:36:59.380I have no proof for that, and I don't make claims if I don't have empirical evidence to support it.
00:37:06.680But common sense suggests that this kind of rhetoric, that people that maybe were deranged to begin with, marginalized to begin with, looking for a cause, celebrate.
00:37:23.240This same individual was active with BLM before this.
00:37:29.440So, you know, was that the cause at the time?
00:37:32.360Now this is the bandwagon that he's jumping on.
00:37:36.260It just makes it easy for people to get involved in.
00:37:40.160And we've got to tone down the rhetoric.
00:37:43.840And when you see, you know, Harvard and UPenn and Columbia University, the leadership there, not only condoning, but in some ways, I think enabling and empowering this, I think we've lost our way.
00:38:06.900I mean, these people, these young people, I think, are being agitated from the outside, as well as the inside.
00:38:45.260They occupied and defaced and vandalized buildings.
00:38:49.480And by the way, Dr. Phil, just for the record, out of so much frustration, we had to send the California Highway Patrol in because they were not enforcing these laws and they were not protecting those students.
00:39:10.480Well, we were with law enforcement as they were staging to go in and take them down.
00:39:16.880And I will say this about all of the law enforcement agencies that were doing this.
00:39:21.020I was speaking with them moments, you know, they were staging a couple of miles away from the campus and they had their buses there and all the troops there.
00:39:31.120And we were speaking to leadership over there at 2.30, 3 o'clock in the morning.
00:39:36.840That was, I was, trust me, I was up at 2.33 in the morning when we finally pulled the orders.
00:39:43.420I was asking them, tell me what your plan is and what your number one objective is.
00:39:52.260And they allowed me to be there because they know how pro-law enforcement I am, how much I support their sacrifices that they make to keep the rest of us safe.
00:40:03.020And every single one of them, and I talked to them individually, you know, 40, 50 yards away from each other, they all said the same thing.
00:40:13.320Our number one objective is that everybody gets home safe tonight.
00:40:18.500UCLA students, the protesters, all of our officers, even these protesters that were hurling these insults at them and calling them every name in the book.
00:40:29.760Their number one objective was that those people get home safe.
00:40:34.300They weren't, oh, well, we're going to went in there and kick some ass.
00:40:48.180They said, well, that depends on them.
00:40:49.800If they follow our directions, then they'll get home safe tonight.
00:40:55.580The second worst thing is we'll detain them and cite them, and then they'll get home safe.
00:41:03.180But we want everybody to get home safe tonight.
00:41:06.140And I had such great respect for them that there's number one, even the protesters, they absolutely wanted them to get home safe.
00:41:15.820Yeah, no, they did a really admirable job that night.
00:41:19.900And while there was a few modest incidences, they conducted themselves extraordinarily well in terms of how they reacted to those incidents.