This is Gavin Newsom - And, This is How Conflict Sells Tickets With Dr. Phil

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:30.000 It's customizable, and it's a personal process.

00:00:33.300 Singleness is not a waiting room.

00:00:34.980 You are actually at the party right now.

00:00:37.440 Let me hear it.

00:00:39.020 Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:46.200 A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways.

00:00:51.560 Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding.

00:00:54.520 But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

00:00:58.200 Small but important ways.

00:01:00.360 From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding.

00:01:04.200 If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it.

00:01:07.280 I'm Max Chaston.

00:01:08.440 And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

00:01:10.240 So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:16.620 This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler.

00:01:19.760 Maren Morris is here.

00:01:21.360 You came out of a marriage.

00:01:23.260 You came out of, quote, unquote, country music.

00:01:25.420 And you had a huge growth spurt, from what I can tell.

00:01:29.420 I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace.

00:01:34.540 And yes, you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself.

00:01:39.040 There were a lot of, like, identity crises going on.

00:01:41.340 But I realized, like, I can't look back and slow down for people.

00:01:46.560 Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:55.420 Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results.

00:02:01.580 But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children.

00:02:07.120 Nothing about that camp was right.

00:02:09.000 It was really actually, like, a horror movie.

00:02:11.240 Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success.

00:02:20.500 You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus.

00:02:27.140 So don't wait.

00:02:28.120 Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today.

00:02:30.140 The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States.

00:02:38.300 Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

00:02:47.020 This medal is for the men who went down that day.

00:02:50.360 On Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage, you'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery.

00:02:57.780 Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:03:12.480 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:03:15.320 And this is Dr. Phil McGraw.

00:03:18.980 I appreciate you coming on, Dr. Phil.

00:03:21.340 And I've been eager to have this conversation because I've been watching a number of your conversations.

00:03:27.100 You've been having very public conversations, but also just in the media and obviously now with your own new Merit Street media enterprise.

00:03:36.200 It's really interesting to read the punditry and try to read between the lines.

00:03:42.420 What's Dr. Phil up to?

00:03:44.500 Is this a big shift to the right or is he just self-actualizing a little bit more in terms of his personal points of view?

00:03:52.400 Or is it completely consistent with the person we watched for 21 years on daytime TV?

00:03:57.680 What's your overall sentiment around the independent analysis and punditry about all things Dr. Phil right now?

00:04:06.720 Well, you know, Governor, I'm glad you asked that question because I have to say I'm probably the least political person I know,

00:04:18.000 although I have certainly been painted with that brush of late and not completely hard to understand.

00:04:29.420 But and I say that I'm not political because I deal with cultural issues, psychosocial issues.

00:04:37.900 And and and I differentiate that from politics because, frankly, I'm not very sophisticated in the political arena.

00:04:49.820 I don't know a lot about it.

00:04:52.340 You know, I can watch that after school special about how a bill becomes a law and all of that.

00:04:59.940 And I learn something every time I watch it again.

00:05:03.200 And and I'm not I'm not I'm not that's not false humility.

00:05:09.220 I really don't understand politics.

00:05:13.260 I certainly don't understand geopolitics on on the international stage.

00:05:20.280 And I really don't seek to.

00:05:22.720 I really am focusing on cultural issues and politicians talk about cultural issues a lot.

00:05:35.400 And so that creates an intersection of content and values.

00:05:40.800 And to me, when I'm focusing on those issues, those values, I could care less whether somebody is a Democrat or a Republican.

00:05:52.940 And I'm not sure there's a whole lot of difference when we really boil it down to where people really stand.

00:06:03.040 I don't think we're nearly as divided as I think the legacy media would lead us to believe we are.

00:06:11.360 And so really, I'm I'm of a strong belief that the strength of any culture, any society lies in the family.

00:06:22.700 And I think family and family values have been under attack in America.

00:06:29.960 I wrote a book in 2004 called Family First.

00:06:33.040 And I said in that book that I thought family in America was under attack.

00:06:38.960 And I certainly think family values have been increasingly under attack.

00:06:45.540 And admittedly, a lot of that attack, I think, is coming from the extreme left, from.

00:06:55.280 What I think are the what I call the tyranny of the fringe, it's it's not really mainstream.

00:07:02.720 America on either side of the aisle.

00:07:04.600 I think it's from really extreme activists.

00:07:11.480 And I don't think they really represent the mainstream on either side of the aisle.

00:07:18.480 So I think it's I think we've got the tail wagging the dog on a lot of these cultural issues, to tell you the truth.

00:07:26.800 I appreciate it.

00:07:27.620 And I want to go back to your consistency on the the notion of family and the challenges there.

00:07:35.220 And I'm curious, just, you know, over the last few decades, I imagine people tried to pull you in 20 years ago, pull you into their campaigns, pull you into their rallies, pull you into their point of view.

00:07:47.940 So, you know, were you you were you tempted 10 years ago to find your way into this or have you really always tried to sort of maintain a status above and, you know, sort of separate and above?

00:08:02.220 I've always tried to stay out of it.

00:08:04.620 You know, people made a lot of it when I went to the Trump rally at Madison Square Garden, you know, this time around.

00:08:13.760 But if if people listen to what I said, I started my comments and remarks during that appearance by saying, I'm not here to endorse President Trump.

00:08:30.440 I don't agree with everything he says or everything he does.

00:08:34.980 I said the first things out of my mouth, if you go back and listen to what I said, is I'm not here to endorse him.

00:08:42.840 I don't agree with everything he says and does.

00:08:46.320 What I don't like is people bullying those and ostracizing those who do support and say they're going to vote for him.

00:08:56.980 And I said, I'll give this identical speech at a Harris rally and volunteered to do so.

00:09:05.720 And they actually contacted me and talked to me about doing exactly that.

00:09:10.780 And I said, absolutely.

00:09:13.900 Let me know when.

00:09:15.140 Let me know where.

00:09:16.880 Gave them all the contact information to set it up.

00:09:20.320 And then they didn't follow up on it after that.

00:09:22.620 But I wanted to speak at that one of those events as well.

00:09:26.980 But I think we need to talk to each other.

00:09:33.220 I think we need a dialogue that we're not having.

00:09:37.460 And if we stay in our bubble, I don't think we're ever going to get a unity in this country.

00:09:44.560 And I appreciate that.

00:09:46.720 I will say, having listened to the speech, I don't think you would have referred to Kamala as a tough old boot.

00:09:52.760 No, I wouldn't have done that.

00:09:54.800 I would change that line for sure.

00:09:59.080 There'd be a few lines.

00:10:00.420 By the way, was it the president himself that reached out directly to you to get you to speak at that rally?

00:10:07.220 Or was it members of the campaign team?

00:10:08.640 Were they aggressively seeking your participation?

00:10:12.700 They were.

00:10:13.480 And, you know, I had already interviewed President Trump.

00:10:19.700 And I've known him for 20 years.

00:10:22.640 I haven't spent a lot of time with him, but I've known him for a long time.

00:10:27.980 And I'd interviewed him for my show in the past.

00:10:33.640 And I had known him, like I say, not well, but I had known him personally away from television and away from all that.

00:10:41.580 But his team asked me to come and interview him.

00:10:47.620 And I had asked to interview him when he was running his campaign, and he agreed.

00:10:54.880 And then they asked me to make an appearance there.

00:10:59.160 And I said I would, but I'll decide what I say.

00:11:04.980 And it will probably be different from what you hear from everybody else.

00:11:08.300 And they said that's okay.

00:11:11.200 They agreed.

00:11:12.660 No, well, I mean, it's, you know, the answer is no unless you ask.

00:11:16.480 And so I certainly appreciate the fact that they were able to diversify the number of voices that were participating in not only those rallies,

00:11:25.600 but, you know, some a little more toxic than others, including at that rally, sort of infamously.

00:11:31.640 But so how about you?

00:11:33.200 Are you going to run in 28?

00:11:34.900 Well, you're just jumping right into that.

00:11:37.680 I want to jump first, though, into what you just launched, which was Merit Street Media.

00:11:43.140 And so after 21 ridiculously successful years running your own show, you decided to move and did this pivot.

00:11:52.320 You did it as well, writing a book that goes to a lot of the issues that you're raising, including on the issue of family called We've Got Issues.

00:12:00.040 But tell us a little bit more, because I'm not sure everybody is fully familiar with this larger media company,

00:12:06.160 not just sort of the work you're doing as a host yourself, but what you're trying to achieve in Merit Street.

00:12:12.120 Well, you know, I did spend 21 years at CBS, and I have to say it was a wonderful experience.

00:12:24.680 And I made wonderful relationships at CBS.

00:12:32.780 They'll forever be a warm place in my heart and got nothing but good things to say about my experience there.

00:12:43.740 I was led their daytime lineup.

00:12:50.060 Of course, it was syndicated, so they weren't all CBS stations, but that was my primary station group.

00:12:56.440 I had great primetime shows on CBS as well and are working on some with them now.

00:13:07.780 We're still in business together.

00:13:10.640 But I wanted to do more than that.

00:13:15.380 I felt like an hour a day was not enough time to really do the things that I felt like I wanted to do.

00:13:27.160 Because I was not comfortable and was very troubled by a lot of what I was seeing going on in this country.

00:13:38.640 I'll tell you a story.

00:13:40.040 I was sitting in our kitchen in California, where we were living at the time, and I was flipping back and forth.

00:13:48.680 Robin and I were sitting there having dinner, and we were kind of flipping back and forth and going from one kind of news channel to another news channel to another news channel.

00:13:58.200 And I was really frustrated by saying, you know, this is so much propaganda, so much spin.

00:14:06.780 You can't really tell.

00:14:09.000 You'd be on one channel and flip to another, and they're talking about the same events or incidents.

00:14:14.540 And you can't even tell they're talking about the same thing.

00:14:17.820 Amen.

00:14:18.860 Because they're spinning it so much.

00:14:21.240 Yep.

00:14:21.760 And I said, you know, this just drives me crazy.

00:14:25.820 The media is driving me crazy.

00:14:27.340 Why won't they just tell you what happened?

00:14:30.020 And without even looking up from dinner, she said, well, why don't you do something about it?

00:14:35.560 You are the media.

00:14:37.060 And she said, your ratings are bigger than both of them combined.

00:14:41.060 Why don't you do something about it?

00:14:42.800 And, you know, that was really the genesis of it, because I wanted to own the debate lane in America.

00:14:51.040 I wanted to have a platform where I could bring two sides together or three sides or four sides if necessary to give people the facts and let them make up their own mind.

00:15:05.520 And, you know, because it's such a big issue in California, homelessness, for example, there are more than two sides to homelessness.

00:15:18.880 People have different theories about how to resolve this.

00:15:22.780 You know, why is housing so expensive?

00:15:27.100 Do you do home first or do you work on getting people back on their feet and they earn their right?

00:15:35.520 To be given housing and shelter?

00:15:38.960 Or is that a fundamental human right?

00:15:42.860 You know, there are different sides to those issues.

00:15:45.280 You think, well, you know, how could you be debating over that?

00:15:47.760 But there are hugely passionate different sides on even that issue.

00:15:54.700 And I do give both sides a chance to talk about that.

00:15:59.440 And we have great and intelligent decisions.

00:16:01.660 You know, right now, this Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

00:16:09.140 I've taken very bold positions on that.

00:16:14.960 And it is astounding to me.

00:16:19.660 I am hearing things on our college campuses that I never thought I would hear in my lifetime.

00:16:26.100 The anti-Semitism that I'm hearing.

00:16:30.280 And I have given a platform to, at one time it was pro-Palestinian.

00:16:37.200 Now it's pro-Hamas. 0.96

00:16:39.100 It's just straight up demonstrations in favor of a terrorist group that has killed 48 Americans since its formation in the early 1980s.

00:16:48.240 And I find that difficult to understand how we have young American students.

00:16:58.520 Conflating the two.

00:16:59.760 Conflating Hamas. 0.96

00:17:00.760 Protesting for Hamas, which is a terrorist group that has killed Americans and until recently was holding American hostages.

00:17:08.060 They still have four that are not alive.

00:17:10.120 But the last American hostage was just released in Edan Alexander.

00:17:15.460 And I spoke with his parents the next morning on the air and had a wonderful celebratory interview with them.

00:17:23.380 And I'm hearing things on these campuses that tell me that we're just not teaching critical thinking among our young people anymore.

00:17:31.760 And that's very troubling to me.

00:17:33.420 And I've given a voice to those and been criticized for giving a voice to the pro-Palestinian, pro-Hamas side.

00:17:40.920 But I think people need to hear what they think and how committed they are and how misguided I believe they are.

00:17:49.300 But I do give them a voice so people understand what we're up against.

00:17:56.640 This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler.

00:17:59.920 Maren Morris is here.

00:18:01.180 You came out of a marriage, you came out of quote unquote country music, and you had a huge growth spurt from what I can tell.

00:18:09.600 I realized I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace.

00:18:16.360 And yes, you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself.

00:18:21.220 There were a lot of like identity crises going on.

00:18:23.480 But I realized like I can't look back and slow down for people.

00:18:28.160 I want to set my own pace and I will sacrifice my comfort to move at the pace that I have worked really hard to move at.

00:18:38.340 Literally everything that could change in your life happened in like five years for me.

00:18:43.340 And, you know, it was a slow burn.

00:18:46.260 Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:18:51.200 Camp Shane, one of America's longest running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results.

00:19:01.420 Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left.

00:19:06.540 In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution.

00:19:10.200 But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets.

00:19:18.260 Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye.

00:19:24.760 Nothing about that camp was right.

00:19:26.480 It was really actually like a horror movie.

00:19:28.740 In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long.

00:19:40.940 You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shane one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus.

00:19:47.860 So don't wait.

00:19:48.840 Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today.

00:19:51.160 Have you ever thought about going Boy Sober?

00:19:57.020 I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

00:20:03.780 To most people, I'm the girl behind Boy Sober, the movement that exploded in 2024.

00:20:10.220 Boy Sober is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships.

00:20:14.900 It's more than personal.

00:20:16.820 It's political.

00:20:17.900 It's societal.

00:20:18.900 And at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be.

00:20:24.600 These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be Boy Sober to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships.

00:20:36.220 I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other.

00:20:41.040 It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together.

00:20:50.000 How we love our family.

00:20:51.280 I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high.

00:20:55.580 And how we love ourselves.

00:20:57.540 Singleness is not a waiting room.

00:20:59.220 You are actually at the party right now.

00:21:01.700 Let me hear it.

00:21:02.400 Listen to Boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:21:09.160 A lot of times, the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways.

00:21:20.100 Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding.

00:21:23.660 But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

00:21:26.620 The demand curve in action.

00:21:28.320 And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on everybody's business from Bloomberg Businessweek.

00:21:33.580 I'm Max Chavkin.

00:21:34.580 And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

00:21:36.680 Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives.

00:21:45.720 But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick.

00:21:58.460 Hey, I want to learn about V-Chain.

00:21:59.800 I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

00:22:03.520 So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:22:10.620 The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States.

00:22:14.920 Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

00:22:22.240 This medal is for the men who went down that day.

00:22:26.260 It's for the families of those who didn't make it.

00:22:28.720 I'm J.R. Martinez.

00:22:30.600 I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage, from Pushkin Industries, and iHeart Podcast.

00:22:43.360 From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice.

00:22:52.120 These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty.

00:23:00.680 You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice.

00:23:09.300 Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:23:14.640 Not that I stress tested what you've been saying along these lines, not specific to the conflict in the Middle East, but more broadly about trying to find a lane of a little bit more balance.

00:23:29.040 I watched specifically your 100-day analysis of the Trump administration, and I thought it was extraordinarily fair.

00:23:36.280 You made some points that were, you know, were very, not revelatory to me, but I thought important to make, particularly on the issue of immigration, of which you received criticism.

00:23:47.600 At the same time, you're hardly anti-immigrant, but you made a point on that 100-day show that I think underscores the point you're trying to make. 0.80

00:23:55.660 And that is what is omitted often in our discourse, particularly in some of these platforms and these cable shows, is the fact that the Biden administration was deporting, has been, at least through a period that marked, I think, around February, more people being deported on the Biden administration than even the Trump administration.

00:24:15.120 Not something you see, not something you see necessarily on some of these cable shows, in order to sort of highlight and reinforce the importance of not just misinformation or disinformation, but what is omitted from our conversation.

00:24:31.320 No, listen, we're embedded with ICE, and they've allowed us full access at Merit TV.

00:24:40.760 And let me tell you, when I say full access, there are no guidelines.

00:24:45.620 Now, to be completely fair, there are some rules in terms of not disclosing certain investigatory techniques that they have, but other than not disclosing things that might put agents' lives in danger, there are no rules.

00:25:09.140 We can show every case, they're not cherry-pick cases, and we're able to show everything that is going on.

00:25:20.180 And I just watched the mischaracterization, and I've come to know Tom Homan very well.

00:25:25.920 This is a very sincere and compassionate man, and they have three primary goals.

00:25:34.240 Number one is the worst first.

00:25:37.100 They talk about, these cable networks talk about they're going in and sweeping neighborhoods, and kind of anybody with a tan is subject to getting picked up.

00:25:48.660 That is absolutely not true.

00:25:51.520 I have seen that they are going after the worst first, that they build a file, they know where these people are,

00:25:58.580 they know what they're guilty of doing, and they target them.

00:26:04.180 These are targeted arrest warrants that they're executing and taking these people out.

00:26:12.620 So that's their number one goal.

00:26:15.360 They wanted to close the border.

00:26:17.300 They've effectively done that.

00:26:18.920 And then number three is to find the missing children, because there are hundreds of thousands of children that have gone missing.

00:26:26.040 Many are known to be sold into the sex trade or the forced labor trade, and those children need to be rescued.

00:26:37.220 Now, some of them have found their way to family that is already here, but I fear there are probably a couple of hundred thousand

00:26:46.460 that are being forced into lives that are horrendous and that they don't want to be in.

00:26:53.640 And those are their three primary objectives.

00:26:56.640 And I hear these, they're just outright misinformation about what they're doing.

00:27:02.280 And if you've seen interviews I've done with Tom Holman, I ask him straight up,

00:27:08.380 are you raiding schools and taking children out of school so they can be deported?

00:27:15.280 Are you sitting on doctor's offices and hospitals to catch these people when they go to get health care?

00:27:22.040 Or are you going after the worst first?

00:27:24.760 And I ask the hard questions and they give me straight up answers and the support for those answers.

00:27:31.760 I'm very pro-immigration.

00:27:33.640 Look, our birth rate has dropped below what we need infrastructure-wise to sustain our infrastructure here.

00:27:43.280 We need a birth rate of 2.1, and we've dropped to a little below 1.6.

00:27:48.760 We better get immigrants into this country. 1.00

00:27:51.500 We need the talent.

00:27:53.080 We need the diversity.

00:27:55.960 We need the headcount and the birth rate.

00:27:59.420 We desperately need immigrants in this country.

00:28:03.580 But there's a right way and a wrong way to do it.

00:28:05.840 I look at America as my home, and I wouldn't let anybody into my house if I didn't know who they were. 0.96

00:28:12.580 Would you?

00:28:14.120 I don't think anybody would.

00:28:16.100 But we've done that.

00:28:17.560 We've let millions of people into this country without knowing who they are. 1.00

00:28:20.860 And clearly, some of those are on a terror watch list, and they're here now.

00:28:26.880 And I think everything you said, Dr. Phil, I think the vast majority of people would find particularly rational.

00:28:35.540 But you have to acknowledge, and I don't say this lightly, I say this with intimate familiarity.

00:28:41.360 I mean, we've had, quote-unquote, wellness checks in the public schools.

00:28:45.020 We've had some folks that are going to immigration courts that are being picked up in and around immigration courts.

00:28:50.520 There's been a chilling impact across the country, not just in states like California, but a lot of day laborers picked up in California.

00:28:58.200 We had a federal judge intervene under a lawsuit and actually admonished some of the Border Patrol for their activities in respect to that or ICE.

00:29:09.040 But I do appreciate there's an intensity of anxiety and a lot of rhetoric that is thrown around that is not nuanced.

00:29:21.560 And I don't know that the president himself is aiding and embedding in finding some common ground here.

00:29:28.020 He uses some pretty extreme language, which I think kind of chills the conversation and chills, I think,

00:29:33.900 our capacity to sort of find some common ground on legitimate concerns around border security

00:29:39.200 and thoughtful and comprehensive strategies to get the best and the brightest from around the world.

00:29:46.140 Well, I think there's a right way and a wrong way to get into the country.

00:29:49.520 And I don't think these people are being picked up that are here legally.

00:29:54.660 And if they are here legally, then they don't have anything to worry about.

00:29:59.200 If they came in illegally, not at a point of entry, then they are subject to being removed.

00:30:06.280 That in and of itself is a crime, is it not?

00:30:09.260 No, and I'm not denying that.

00:30:10.840 But are you asking?

00:30:11.920 I mean, and again, I'm not looking to get in a debate about immigration policy.

00:30:16.020 I'm just seeing some nuance in terms of the language.

00:30:19.280 And I think some of the rhetoric and the reality on the ground is someone that is on the ground addressing some of that reality.

00:30:26.020 It's not just the worst first.

00:30:28.100 Yeah, it may be that may be the policy, but that's not necessarily the practice as it relates to those that are here without documentation.

00:30:36.580 I mean, you know, you've got folks from Luke Gingrich that was supporting amnesty in 1985.

00:30:42.560 Reagan himself that did the amnesty bill shortly thereafter.

00:30:46.200 And and obviously we've got to address those that have been here for decades.

00:30:50.100 I don't imagine we want to get all of them because they're going on here illegally and send them and deport them all back. 1.00

00:30:57.100 I do not imagine you're arguing for that.

00:30:59.380 Well, but here's the thing.

00:31:00.780 If if and let me argue another side of this, we've got an immigration court that is horribly dysfunctional.

00:31:11.380 Yeah.

00:31:11.620 It takes seven, eight years.

00:31:14.480 Yeah. 0.98

00:31:14.740 Ridiculous. 0.99

00:31:15.140 And that is a broken system. 0.89

00:31:18.400 We need to fix that 100 percent when when you've got somebody that maybe they have a legitimate reason, a compelling reason to get out of their home country for for safety reasons, for fear of of of violence from gangs or whatever.

00:31:36.600 And so they make application to the United States and we say, great, you know, here's a here here's a court date in 2032.

00:31:47.700 Well, I'm sorry.

00:31:49.940 I got people coming by my house threatening to cut off my arms and legs on a daily basis.

00:31:56.340 2032 doesn't really work for me.

00:31:58.820 We've got to fix that.

00:32:00.480 I want to 100 percent acknowledge that.

00:32:02.540 Yeah.

00:32:03.340 The other hand, if we've got people that are here illegally, they're either here legally or they're not here legally.

00:32:10.360 And so we have to take some ownership in the fact that we've got a broken system for getting processed into this country.

00:32:19.240 That's right.

00:32:19.800 Doesn't change the fact that we have people that are here illegally and most of them are not fleeing.

00:32:27.140 They're here fleeing violence.

00:32:29.000 They're here for economic reasons.

00:32:31.300 And this is the greatest country in the world.

00:32:34.100 Of course, if if I was in El Salvador or somewhere and had a dirt floor and pennies a day for wages, would I want to be in America?

00:32:44.460 Of course, I would want to be in America.

00:32:47.140 We've got to do some things on our end to make this more functional.

00:32:52.100 I agree with that.

00:32:52.860 And and I hate these sanctuary guidelines where they will not cooperate with ICE agents to get someone that is currently in custody, which means they've broken the law.

00:33:07.960 And local law enforcement has had reason to pick them up and and detain them.

00:33:15.960 If you tell ICE about that and they can come get them and take them out at that point, you're going to have a whole lot less of the people you're talking about get arrested when they go into the community.

00:33:27.880 Then you have one ICE agent on one bad actor and they're gone.

00:33:33.280 If they have to go into the neighborhood, they're going to arrest that person and they're going to check everybody that's around them.

00:33:40.620 And that's what you know, Dr.

00:33:42.500 Phil.

00:33:42.660 Well, I mean, in California, I can only speak for myself as governor.

00:33:46.100 We've we've cooperated in that respect with folks that are in custody in state prisons, over 10,000 specific examples of of that kind of cooperation.

00:33:56.560 So not a lot of daylight on that.

00:33:58.680 I guess I'm just more concerned about the larger rhetoric that everyone's here, quote unquote, illegally, which I get on the technical terms.

00:34:04.540 But the notion of what the heck we do about it, I agree with you on comprehensive need for a comprehensive reforms.

00:34:09.760 I think the asylum system is broken.

00:34:11.440 And there's been all kinds of bills rejected by both parties to address this issue.

00:34:17.980 There was a bipartisan immigration package that Rubio himself, among many others, supported to deal with immigration backlogs and judges and address some of those concerns.

00:34:28.260 But they seem to get just watered down or eliminated because of the toxicity of our politics.

00:34:33.440 And that's my concern now is how the hell do we soften that edge, which I think you want, so we can find unity and common ground and unify the country, which you talk a lot about.

00:34:44.020 But how do we begin to do that in a more rational way?

00:34:48.120 I mean, I think rhetoric still matters.

00:34:50.420 Does it not?

00:34:51.740 Words are powerful.

00:34:53.200 Yeah.

00:34:53.400 Words are absolutely powerful.

00:34:55.340 And, you know, when I see things happening, and I see it a lot with the death threats and hate speech and rhetoric that I get when I come out and condemn what happened on October 7th in Israel.

00:35:16.240 By the way, just for the record, I flew to Israel right after the 7th and met with leadership.

00:35:24.200 We actually brought a hospital, a field hospital with us.

00:35:28.560 So I appreciate that condemnation.

00:35:31.140 I want to make that clear.

00:35:32.240 Well, I know you made that trip, and I was so glad to see you do that.

00:35:36.960 I spent 21 years in California, and I was proud to see you take the initiative to do that, because you didn't have to do that.

00:35:47.180 And when I say words are powerful, but thank you for doing that.

00:35:56.260 I didn't finish my sentence.

00:35:59.040 Thank you for doing that.

00:36:01.580 I think the rhetoric has gotten way out of control.

00:36:04.380 When you shoot two people on the street in Washington, D.C., outside a museum, Milgram, the young woman, she grew up in Overland Park, Kansas.

00:36:24.120 I mean, this is not an activist that is really driving the story here.

00:36:30.400 And the young man was an Israeli Christian, for God's sakes.

00:36:40.760 And they killed these two people and then start yelling, free Palestine, free Palestine.

00:36:47.200 Can I say that those shootings were due to out-of-control and fiery rhetoric?

00:36:59.380 I have no proof for that, and I don't make claims if I don't have empirical evidence to support it.

00:37:06.680 But common sense suggests that this kind of rhetoric, that people that maybe were deranged to begin with, marginalized to begin with, looking for a cause, celebrate.

00:37:23.240 This same individual was active with BLM before this.

00:37:29.440 So, you know, was that the cause at the time?

00:37:32.360 Now this is the bandwagon that he's jumping on.

00:37:36.260 It just makes it easy for people to get involved in.

00:37:40.160 And we've got to tone down the rhetoric.

00:37:43.840 And when you see, you know, Harvard and UPenn and Columbia University, the leadership there, not only condoning, but in some ways, I think enabling and empowering this, I think we've lost our way.

00:38:06.900 I mean, these people, these young people, I think, are being agitated from the outside, as well as the inside.

00:38:17.200 And this isn't free speech, Governor.

00:38:19.640 This has gone beyond that.

00:38:21.700 When they're, I was on the UCLA campus when they took down the encampment there.

00:38:26.700 I talked to those protesters there.

00:38:30.920 And was there hate speech?

00:38:32.980 Yes, but it was still speech.

00:38:34.620 But I also saw them surrounding Jewish students and not allowing them to move across campus. 0.98

00:38:43.620 Some were assaulted.

00:38:45.260 They occupied and defaced and vandalized buildings.

00:38:49.480 And by the way, Dr. Phil, just for the record, out of so much frustration, we had to send the California Highway Patrol in because they were not enforcing these laws and they were not protecting those students.

00:39:02.660 So we were very critical.

00:39:04.420 And I appreciate your critique of what was happening on the UCLA campus.

00:39:08.880 You're absolutely spot on.

00:39:10.480 Well, we were with law enforcement as they were staging to go in and take them down.

00:39:16.880 And I will say this about all of the law enforcement agencies that were doing this.

00:39:21.020 I was speaking with them moments, you know, they were staging a couple of miles away from the campus and they had their buses there and all the troops there.

00:39:31.120 And we were speaking to leadership over there at 2.30, 3 o'clock in the morning.

00:39:36.840 That was, I was, trust me, I was up at 2.33 in the morning when we finally pulled the orders.

00:39:43.420 I was asking them, tell me what your plan is and what your number one objective is.

00:39:49.920 And there was nobody there but us.

00:39:52.260 And they allowed me to be there because they know how pro-law enforcement I am, how much I support their sacrifices that they make to keep the rest of us safe.

00:40:03.020 And every single one of them, and I talked to them individually, you know, 40, 50 yards away from each other, they all said the same thing.

00:40:13.320 Our number one objective is that everybody gets home safe tonight.

00:40:18.500 UCLA students, the protesters, all of our officers, even these protesters that were hurling these insults at them and calling them every name in the book.

00:40:29.760 Their number one objective was that those people get home safe. 0.99

00:40:34.300 They weren't, oh, well, we're going to went in there and kick some ass. 1.00

00:40:37.360 No, no, no. 0.98

00:40:38.640 They said with great sincerity, we just want everybody to get home safe tonight.

00:40:43.000 You know, tomorrow's another day.

00:40:44.460 Let's get everybody home safe tonight.

00:40:46.820 And I said, will that happen?

00:40:48.180 They said, well, that depends on them.

00:40:49.800 If they follow our directions, then they'll get home safe tonight.

00:40:55.580 The second worst thing is we'll detain them and cite them, and then they'll get home safe.

00:41:03.180 But we want everybody to get home safe tonight.

00:41:06.140 And I had such great respect for them that there's number one, even the protesters, they absolutely wanted them to get home safe.

00:41:15.820 Yeah, no, they did a really admirable job that night.

00:41:19.900 And while there was a few modest incidences, they conducted themselves extraordinarily well in terms of how they reacted to those incidents.

00:41:28.940 It only reinforced their stewardship.

00:41:32.340 And not just on the UCLA campus, many other campuses, not just in California.

00:41:37.120 Of course, all across this country.

00:41:38.520 This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Maren Morris is here.

00:41:46.280 You came out of a marriage, you came out of quote unquote country music, and you had a huge growth spurt from what I can tell.

00:41:54.460 I realized I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace.

00:42:01.120 And yes, you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself.

00:42:05.820 There were a lot of like identity crises going on, but I realized like I can't look back and slow down for people.

00:42:13.460 I want to set my own pace and I will sacrifice my comfort to move at the pace that I have worked really hard to move at.

00:42:23.200 Literally everything that could change in your life happened in like five years for me.

00:42:28.100 And, you know, it was a slow burn.

00:42:30.380 Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:42:39.380 Camp Shane, one of America's longest running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results.

00:42:46.240 Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left.

00:42:51.320 In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution.

00:42:55.500 But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets.

00:43:03.040 Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye.

00:43:09.540 Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie.

00:43:14.080 In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment

00:43:18.500 and re-examining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long.

00:43:25.720 You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus.

00:43:32.640 So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today.

00:43:38.340 Have you ever thought about going boy sober?

00:43:41.780 I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

00:43:48.500 To most people, I'm the girl behind Boy Sober, the movement that exploded in 2024.

00:43:54.980 Boy Sober is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships.

00:43:59.680 It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be.

00:44:09.360 These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be boy sober,

00:44:13.680 to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships.

00:44:21.000 I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other.

00:44:26.060 It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship

00:44:32.660 that aren't being naked together.

00:44:34.740 How we love our family.

00:44:35.880 I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high.

00:44:40.560 And how we love ourselves.

00:44:42.320 Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now.

00:44:46.460 Let me hear it.

00:44:48.320 Listen to Boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:44:53.940 I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

00:45:21.060 Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business,

00:45:25.200 taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives.

00:45:30.500 But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams,

00:45:34.780 and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms,

00:45:40.140 even the signal chats that make our economy tick.

00:45:43.220 Hey, I want to learn about VeChain.

00:45:44.640 I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

00:45:48.300 So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:45:55.380 The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States.

00:45:59.700 Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice

00:46:03.680 in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

00:46:06.720 This medal is for the men who went down that day.

00:46:11.040 It's for the families of those who didn't make it.

00:46:13.480 I'm J.R. Martinez.

00:46:15.360 I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes

00:46:20.380 on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage, from Pushkin Industries, and iHeart Podcast.

00:46:28.120 From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal,

00:46:31.900 to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice.

00:46:36.880 These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor,

00:46:41.760 going above and beyond the call of duty.

00:46:45.480 You'll hear about what they did, what it meant,

00:46:48.640 and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice.

00:46:54.060 Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:46:59.260 One of the things that, you know, I think it's the conversation we're having here

00:47:06.000 around how you work through these things and how we work through our differences

00:47:10.320 and how we find commonality.

00:47:11.980 You began with, you opened up by saying, you don't think our politics is,

00:47:16.640 you think, you know, mainstream media sort of, you know,

00:47:19.760 it sort of exacerbates the conditions, these divisions,

00:47:23.880 that we're not as far apart as we may appear.

00:47:27.300 Tell me a little bit more about what your thinking is in that respect.

00:47:30.840 You mean that more broadly about sort of universal values of being loved

00:47:35.040 and need to be loved, being protected, connected, respected?

00:47:38.200 Or do you mean that on issues like immigration,

00:47:41.420 issues like human rights and social justice, or on what topics?

00:47:47.100 Look, conflict sells tickets.

00:47:49.900 You know, if you're doing the news and your lead headline is,

00:47:54.940 today, at 3rd and Elm, nothing happened.

00:47:59.740 That just doesn't sell tickets, right?

00:48:01.880 But if you can say, today, at 3rd and Elm, chaos broke out.

00:48:10.580 Throw to the video.

00:48:13.540 Now, everybody turns around and looks.

00:48:15.840 And that's just kind of how we have been shaped and fashioned into following the news.

00:48:26.540 But the truth of the matter is,

00:48:29.820 I believe anytime I'm negotiating with somebody,

00:48:36.220 the first thing I do is say, look, we've got differences.

00:48:40.660 I agree with that.

00:48:41.740 I think you and I have some differences in the way we look at things.

00:48:46.620 But if we were going to try to find some common ground,

00:48:50.980 the first thing I would do is say, you know,

00:48:53.740 Governor, let's first talk about everything we agree about.

00:48:57.040 Yeah.

00:48:57.500 Let's talk about the things that we agree about,

00:48:59.960 because I think if we do that,

00:49:03.720 we're going to find that we're not near as divided or different as we might think we are.

00:49:16.280 And let's look at it from a broad standpoint.

00:49:21.000 If you sit down with the most polarized folks and say,

00:49:30.880 let's talk about what we agree about in America,

00:49:33.220 everybody wants a safe and healthy country.

00:49:39.680 Nobody would disagree with that.

00:49:41.540 Everybody wants to leave a good, green, clean, prosperous country for our children.

00:49:51.700 Nobody would disagree with that.

00:49:55.180 Everybody wants us to have a strong economy.

00:49:58.520 Everybody would agree with that.

00:50:00.520 Everybody wants us to be a good leader in the world

00:50:05.400 and set a good example for other countries.

00:50:09.660 Everybody would agree with that.

00:50:12.640 Now, we might disagree about how we go about achieving those things,

00:50:18.160 but everybody would agree with where we're trying to get.

00:50:22.420 Yeah.

00:50:22.560 And I think one of the most critical days in this country's history was 9-12.

00:50:32.300 Not 9-11.

00:50:35.540 9-11 was one of the darkest days in our history, of course.

00:50:41.020 But on 9-12, everybody woke up and we were Americans first.

00:50:49.340 There weren't Democrats.

00:50:51.100 There weren't Republicans.

00:50:52.280 We were all Americans.

00:50:54.360 And I just pray that something like that doesn't have to happen again

00:51:00.020 for people to remember that, hey, wait a minute.

00:51:03.740 We're all wearing the same color jersey.

00:51:06.780 We may have some differences on issues, but we're all Americans.

00:51:11.660 And we all love this country.

00:51:13.840 And we all want fundamentally the same things.

00:51:19.220 And if we remember that first, then I think we have a foundation to work from,

00:51:26.680 a foundation to build on.

00:51:29.100 And I pray we don't need to be reminded of that by being under attack.

00:51:37.880 And I think if we do remember that, if we do take that approach, then we go,

00:51:44.800 hey, wow, we've really got something here to work on.

00:51:48.800 And, you know, people, I've followed you for a long time.

00:51:58.540 And there are things that, you know, people look at you and you have kind of an affluent

00:52:06.720 image and all.

00:52:09.440 People don't know that, and I learned, one of the things that you and I have in common

00:52:16.400 is we both come from pretty poor backgrounds.

00:52:19.220 We both had to work real early in our lives and shared some common difficult experiences

00:52:28.380 early in life of trying to make it and get by and find this job and then that job.

00:52:34.740 And when I learned those things about you several years ago, all of a sudden I said,

00:52:42.920 you know, I understand how he's gotten where he is because this guy understands hard work

00:52:49.140 and putting the time in to get where he's going.

00:52:52.940 And my whole opinion changed when I learned some of those things.

00:52:59.400 And there are things that I disagree with you on.

00:53:03.240 I disagreed with you on some of the things you did concerning COVID and shutting things

00:53:12.280 down and how long and this, that, and the other.

00:53:15.420 But I didn't have questions about your intention, just your choices.

00:53:25.100 And I always knew that this was something I could sit down and talk to you about.

00:53:28.780 Uh, because I knew that you knew the value of hard work and what families put in and,

00:53:36.080 um, how important it was.

00:53:39.640 And I, I felt like people don't take time to find out who they're talking to, what their

00:53:45.960 history and what their values are.

00:53:47.700 And tune in for our continued conversation with Dr. Phil.

00:53:51.060 Have you ever thought about going Boy Sober?

00:54:01.440 I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

00:54:07.100 I'm also the girl behind Boy Sober, the movement that exploded in 2024.

00:54:13.060 You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy.

00:54:15.980 But to me, Boy Sober is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships.

00:54:21.780 It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process.

00:54:26.600 Singleness is not a waiting room.

00:54:28.280 You are actually at the party right now.

00:54:30.740 Let me hear it.

00:54:32.260 Listen to Boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:54:39.420 A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways.

00:54:44.700 Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now

00:54:49.800 I only buy one.

00:54:51.640 Small but important ways.

00:54:53.660 From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding.

00:54:57.520 If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it.

00:55:00.580 I'm Max Chafkin.

00:55:01.760 And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

00:55:03.560 So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

00:55:08.640 get your podcasts.

00:55:09.920 This week on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler.

00:55:12.740 Maren Morris is here.

00:55:14.600 You came out of a marriage.

00:55:16.560 You came out of quote-unquote country music.

00:55:19.120 And you had a huge growth spurt, from what I can tell.

00:55:22.800 I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace.

00:55:27.860 And yes, you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself.

00:55:32.380 There were a lot of identity crises going on.

00:55:34.580 But I realized, like, I can't look back and slow down for people.

00:55:39.880 Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:55:48.520 Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary

00:55:53.800 results.

00:55:54.880 But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children.

00:55:59.660 Nothing about that camp was right.

00:56:02.320 It was really actually like a horror movie.

00:56:05.480 Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture

00:56:10.980 that fueled its decades-long success.

00:56:13.800 You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart

00:56:19.260 True Crime Plus.

00:56:20.440 So don't wait.

00:56:21.420 Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today.

00:56:26.580 The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States.

00:56:31.600 Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the

00:56:37.380 name of something much bigger than themselves.

00:56:40.320 This medal is for the men who went down that day.

00:56:43.660 On Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage, you'll hear about these heroes and what their stories

00:56:49.040 tell us about the nature of bravery.

00:56:51.520 Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

00:56:56.040 podcasts.

00:56:57.040 This is an iHeart Podcast.

This is Gavin Newsom - June 04, 2025

And, This is How Conflict Sells Tickets With Dr. Phil

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