Oprah Winfrey is a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer. She grew up in Chelsea, Massachusetts, just outside Boston. She was a product of the East Coast. She went to Stanford. She got a Ph.D. from Harvard. And then she moved to the West Coast.
00:00:30.000Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:00.000Check out the mailroom on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
00:01:05.940On an all-new episode of iHeart Radio's Las Culturistas, Emmy, Golden Globe, and Tony Award winner Sarah Paulson spills on red carpet hacks.
00:01:14.900We saw these pictures and you're like, what is the story with this?
00:01:17.680She gets real about the inspiration behind her roles.
00:01:20.740Oh, no, there is no end to how people will behave.
00:01:23.520And she puts hosts Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang on notice.
00:01:26.280I don't think so, honey. I feel very, very triggered by this.
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00:01:36.460What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kev On Stage.
00:01:38.800I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who've had massive success about their massive failures.
00:01:51.020What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it?
00:01:54.640I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash.
00:02:00.580Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kev On Stage, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:02:07.380On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, D.D. Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer.
00:02:19.380I could feel inside myself at four or five years old, looking through the screen on the back porch, that this is not going to be my life.
00:02:28.380Listen to the next chapter on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:15:41.480They did a bit to pull, potentially to get Saudi Arabia as part of that.
00:15:45.140So, give me your over-under in terms of that relationship, which is, to me, fascinating, also deeply predictable, because there's sort of a crony component of that as well.
00:15:55.820There's a little bit of self-dealing that seems to attach itself, respectfully, from my perspective, to all things Saudi Arabia and the Trump and Trump family.
00:16:02.840But how did you perceive that meeting, the importance of it, a little bit of the controversy around it, particularly in relationship to the murder of a Washington Post reporter?
00:16:18.500Saudi Arabia today, over 30 million population in the region, is transforming itself in ways that, if you haven't traveled to the kingdom recently, is shocking.
00:17:12.200And so, you know, you go and you see that suddenly, like, men and women are actually able to talk to each other.
00:17:19.480And I remember the first time I went to Saudi Arabia, local men referred to women as MBOs, moving black objects, because they were completely covered by the niqab, and you couldn't see them aside from this little slit, you know, with their eyes.
00:17:34.000And they certainly weren't playing any role in terms of social, public culture.
00:17:46.640So any country in the world, not just the United States, that is thinking about what are the future-oriented governments that you should be engaging with, Saudi would be on your list.
00:18:00.120Just having said that, the Khashoggi assassination, which the CIA said-
00:18:34.960And I think Biden made mistakes on that, frankly, not reading the room.
00:18:38.580But for Trump to then take a question and pretend that not only did this incident not happen, to whitewash it and say, well, Mohammed bin Salman, he knew nothing about that.
00:18:51.140To say that, well, this guy Khashoggi was a bad guy.
00:18:54.100Like, well, you don't need to do any of that.
00:18:57.560And yet it's almost like he takes pleasure in the opportunity in undermining the values that the United States has at least tried to stand for, for much of its recent history.
00:19:35.540And what I love about you, you call balls and strikes, you're nonpartisan, and you're able to assess things without a deeply political lens, which I think is critical and important.
00:19:44.360I think it's important for us to acknowledge that, particularly folks in my party.
00:19:48.240But as it relates to where we are today and the ability to build on that success and the relationship to this quote-unquote Middle East peace deal, the most significant, you know, Trump sort of triumphed, and the challenges that persist in Gaza, Hamas, who appears not to have any interest in, you know, eliminating or at least setting down their arms.
00:20:08.700The challenges with the next phase of that peace deal, the importance of Saudi Arabia recognizing Israel, but first Israel recognizing a Palestinian state.
00:20:18.860How do you feel the state of the Middle East is today?
00:20:59.620He got it done by also orchestrating a summit on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.
00:21:05.280And you were there in New York with me as well.
00:21:08.580With all of the leaders from the region, not the Israelis, saying, here's the 20 or 21 point plan, depending on who you talk to, that they then mostly got agreement on.
00:21:20.280And recently they just got it passed by the Security Council.
00:23:06.940And I've been reading some of the things you put out.
00:23:09.620How concerned are you about Hezbollah in Lebanon?
00:23:12.760How concerned are you about what's happening in Beirut or not happening?
00:23:16.880Where do you think you see things going in the short term?
00:23:18.900Well, the Lebanese government, after the ceasefire, said that they were going to work to ensure that the heavy weaponry that Hezbollah had in the south of the country near the Israeli border, they were going to destroy that critical infrastructure and make sure that those weapons weren't there.
00:23:55.280Now, whether or not that is limited strikes, drones, missiles, aircraft just across the border, or whether that includes special forces insertion in Beirut, there's a big, big difference between those two things.
00:24:11.760Either can happen, but I'd be stunned if we have this staying quiescent over the coming months.
00:24:26.120What's your over-under on success in that respect?
00:24:28.700I mean, the idea, if Hamas is not going to put down their arms, of an international security force coming in, armed security force, seems less likely under those circumstances.
00:24:43.960But also, everyone that's been traveling to this coordination center that they've set up, just on the Israeli side of the Gaza border, and it has like one floor with the Israelis, one floor with the Americans, then one floor with the multinationals.
00:25:00.560And apparently, first of all, much bigger, much more capable than people think.
00:25:04.100The U.S. much more directly involved now in terms of ensuring that humanitarian aid is getting in.
00:25:09.700The Israelis are in some of the meetings.
00:25:12.420So there is an effort to really have people that are capable of moving the ball, and also, as the administration has called it, babysitting.
00:25:21.720So senior officials that are constraining him so that he can't destroy the progress in the process.
00:25:28.620Now, also, Tony Blair, controversial figure, but is well-regarded, well-respected in the Gulf.
00:25:36.660He brings far more political influence and leadership to a Gaza role than anyone else plausible.
00:25:43.220Interestingly, the Jordanians have been really opposed to him.
00:25:48.260And I haven't been able to figure out why.
00:25:50.460No history when he was prime minister and with a king?
00:25:58.820I mean, it might be that Abu Mazen is opposed to it and has used the Jordanians to say, hey, you know, sort of he's going to be tough on us.
00:26:04.900I'm not sure, but I think that everyone would be fortunate to have Blair in this role, frankly.
00:26:10.860Was it your perspective was the right thing to do to go in and go after those nuclear facilities of the United States and those strikes?
00:26:44.800But then the war was over in short order and no American boots on the ground.
00:26:48.920So, look, on balance with an Iranian government, remember, Trump had Bibi in the Oval Office.
00:26:56.460And while he was there, announced, I'm going to start engaging with the Iranians.
00:27:00.700I want to see if we can get to a diplomatic deal.
00:27:03.800And there was some effort and the Iranians weren't really willing to go there.
00:27:10.380So ultimately, that meant, I mean, this is not like the Gaza situation, certainly not like Qatar, where, you know, the Israelis made strikes.
00:27:28.160And it's interesting to me, just with a weaker economy, we talked a little bit.
00:27:31.940I mean, this notion that they were able to flex with a little more precision and push Trump back, though we still have outrageously high tariffs.
00:27:40.820And that's going to impact or is already impacting prices, as you suggest.
00:27:45.120But particularly this Christmas, where I think 80 percent of our toys come from China, et cetera.
00:27:51.020And they're starting to actually make, I mean, people are starting to absorb the realities of these terrorists in a way.
00:27:56.640Those first few months, they appeared not to be.
00:27:58.900And so there's back to this notion that certain realities are hitting Trump in the face in terms of how he positions.
00:28:04.960A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers.
00:28:09.780But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.
00:28:13.580The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.
00:28:16.340So why did it take so long to catch him?
00:28:18.380I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since The Son of Sam, available now.
00:28:28.560Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.
00:28:35.860On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.
00:28:40.420Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.
00:28:44.160And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m.?
00:28:49.980On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way.
00:28:53.600It's not only about what we can do to improve our health.
00:28:56.140But also what our health says about us and the way we're living.
00:28:59.700Like our episode where we look at diabetes.
00:29:02.520In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic.
00:29:11.180Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.
00:29:16.360Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that, like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but, like, you don't even know.
00:30:05.160There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back, he's putting politics aside, he's left the White House.
00:30:13.880And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't?
00:30:16.980CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure.
00:30:28.020Listen to the Big Take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:30:35.660What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time?
00:30:45.260You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break primetime wide open.
00:30:53.340I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others.
00:30:58.360But for me, I saw myself in his story.
00:31:00.920From plenty of canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways.
00:31:05.760On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life.
00:31:11.320The moments it has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen.
00:31:20.700This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others, and how we carry his legacy today.
00:31:27.700Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:32:02.460Every week we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility, and things that happen in the bedroom.
00:32:33.300So check out The Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
00:32:38.640But give me a sense, you know, the Biden years vis-a-vis China, how Trump is posturing that relationship with Xi.
00:32:48.940Where do you see things going, even beyond the situational politics today, around the immediate, you know, sort of decompressing a little bit of that stress after that APEC meeting?
00:32:59.900Where do you see things going with China in the next two, five years?
00:33:05.240The Chinese are very confident right now.
00:33:08.520They believe that the United States, as a country that is less reliable, is creating big opportunities for China long term.
00:34:02.080That when he decided to put that loaded gun on the table that said, here is what I can do in weaponizing these critical minerals that are utterly essential for everybody in the advanced industrial economies.
00:34:15.660Suddenly you have Europeans, Japanese, South Koreans, Australians, Canadians saying, okay, we can't rely on the United States.
00:34:22.940But these guys are actually a fundamental national security problem right now.
00:34:27.340And we've got to find a way to work together, all of us, so that we have alternatives.
00:34:33.420In the same way that the Europeans had their eye off the ball on energy and allowed themselves to be dependent on Russia, really bad idea for decades.
00:34:43.920In the same way that the Americans did that with semiconductors and TSMC right off of the Chinese coast, really bad idea for decades.
00:34:53.400All of us have done this on critical minerals and rare arts.
00:34:58.220So, yeah, I think if you're China, you should have just, you know, as they say, you know, the Sun Tzu, right?
00:35:06.220When your enemy is making a mistake, let them and don't intervene.
00:35:11.520And I think that the Chinese actually sort of have played a little too aggressively recently.
00:35:16.940The new prime minister of Japan said she would intervene on behalf of Taiwan.
00:36:06.300It's in part because the Chinese don't yet have the military capabilities in place.
00:36:11.600And you see every month there's a new corruption scandal that's hitting the inside, the top levels of the Chinese military.
00:36:17.960So how much would she want to rely on that to ensure with a military that hasn't been used in sort of battle conditions, the way like the Russians have, for example, and learn some things maybe they didn't want to learn at the beginning of that war?
00:36:32.480But then you also have the fact that the Chinese see that Trump isn't looking for a trade war, like recognizes that he needs to bend the knee, that he needs to find a way not to cause problems for China.
00:36:45.600There's a mutually assured economic destruction between the two countries, for now at least, even if the long-term path is towards decoupling.
00:36:53.480And, you know, going to war against Taiwan, even if Trump's instinct, his impulse would be, that's pretty far away, not really my problem.
00:37:05.880But the Japanese, the South Koreans, the Australians wouldn't feel that way.
00:37:09.420And the Americans are very much on the ground there and intelligence sharing and troops and all the rest would be, it'd be hard for the Americans to actually steer clear of that.
00:37:18.580And I don't see Xi Jinping as wanting to take that risk, similar to the economy.
00:37:23.700You know, the Chinese economy is not performing that well right now.
00:37:26.760He's not ready to launch the big bazooka at domestic stimulus.
00:37:31.360He's not suddenly going to take all of the provincial debt and take it on at the federal level because he doesn't need to.
00:37:38.660Because Xi Jinping is thinking about 10 years down the line, as you suggested, 20 years down the line.
00:37:43.500And the fact that, like, he can wait, he is patient, he is more risk averse.
00:37:50.160He's being quite cautious about some of these bigger long-term strategic issues, specifically like Taiwan.
00:37:55.980Is the policy of the United States decoupling or is it de-risking?
00:38:01.100I think it is long-term it's decoupling.
00:38:04.500And that's an aggressive thing to say.
00:38:05.960But, you know, when I think about the commanding heights of the global economy over the next five years, we're talking about AI and advanced technologies.
00:38:16.140And these are places where what the Americans are doing and what the Chinese are doing are completely separate sets of investments.
00:38:31.280We're doing completely different things.
00:38:32.920And so, you know, we're going to other countries and we're saying it's not just about if we want to talk about U.S.-China, we have to talk about American diplomacy with third parties and say, well, we're pressuring the Mexicans to ensure there are no transshipments of Chinese goods through Mexico into the United States.
00:38:51.460We're pressuring the Netherlands to make sure that they're not actually, you know, sort of selling software design or semiconductors into China.
00:38:58.900We're working on all of these countries to build alternate supply chains so that we don't rely on the Chinese.
00:39:54.760Well, given that the U.S.-Mexico-Canada agreement was, again, after the Abraham Accords, arguably the second biggest win of the first Trump administration.
00:40:07.720And that's why I say the second Trump term is so different from the first.
00:40:11.640It's much more like I'm much more powerful and I am in a position where I can force you to accept asymmetric negotiations that benefit me to a greater degree.
00:40:24.160And, you know, yes, at the beginning, of course, it was Justin Trudeau and the fact that he really disliked him personally.
00:40:33.600And so when he came down to Mar-a-Lago and Trump had him surrounded at that table and he started talking to Governor Trudeau.
00:40:40.680And you'll remember that there were, like, you know, hockey matches and the rest where they were booing the American national anthem.
00:42:28.360I think that, what's interesting, you're talking about a PhD woman, environmental scientist, Berkeley grad.
00:42:35.940I mean, you know, if she had been black and lesbian, I mean, like, you can't find me a demographic that's going to be more challenging for Trump to actually deal with, right?
00:42:46.340And, and yet, and yet she's been, she's, she's talked with him frequently on the phone.
00:43:49.600And by the way, I just heard from her cabinet just last week that the, that the bust in Nogales, I guess it was, with the United States actually grabbing all of these rifles, heavy rifles.
00:44:16.480We've been working, our own state national guard has been working.
00:44:19.780I've deployed them to the border on precisely those operations working in partnership with the national guard in Mexico, which we have a formal relationship.
00:44:36.420But of course, they are deeply worried about like, you know, what happens with trade between the U.S. and Mexico.
00:44:41.140It's the end of the day, as much as she's trying to manage it and she's doing a good job, they are deeply uncomfortable with the Americans saying, hey, USMCA, don't care what that says.
00:44:51.220We're actually going to rip that off and we're going to hit you hard unless you improve trade terms with us.
00:44:56.660That worries them a lot because, I mean, they are, you know, a much smaller economy and they are overwhelmingly reliant on the U.S.
00:46:50.240Donald Trump's trade war 2.0 is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar.
00:47:00.520That is where the big take from Bloomberg Podcast comes in, to connect the dots.
00:47:27.380Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation.
00:47:35.240Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:47:42.360What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time?
00:47:52.220You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break primetime wide open.
00:48:00.580I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others.
00:48:05.600But for me, I saw myself in his story.
00:48:08.160From plenty of canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways.
00:48:13.000On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life, the moments it has overlapped with mine,
00:48:20.340how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen.
00:48:28.260This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others, and how we carry his legacy today.
00:48:34.720Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:49:08.500Well, that's true. Every week we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility, and things that happen in the bedroom.
00:50:11.980There's a lot of distrust about the administration, particularly at the time Epstein files and everything else going on.
00:50:18.420Everything that arguably is going wrong.
00:50:20.940Trump's had a difficult few weeks, and I would argue a few months, but don't really last few weeks.
00:50:25.880What do you make of what's going on with these strikes on these boats?
00:50:32.300Is this a strategy to take out Maduro?
00:50:36.800Is it a strategy to create anxiety for their regime of sorts, for folks down in that region more broadly?
00:50:47.340I mean, it clearly isn't just a strategy to take out these boats, because the expense and the amount of materiel that the Americans presently have arrayed off the coast is radically beyond what you would need for that, right?
00:51:02.300Let's put an aircraft carrier down there, doesn't it?
00:51:38.700It is cocaine export coming into the United States.
00:51:43.000It is oil going illegally to Cuba and then on to China.
00:51:48.780It is ideological that you've got Venezuela, you've got Nicaragua, you've got Cuba, these revolutionary leftist regimes where otherwise in the region, most of these countries are turning towards the United States and towards the right.
00:52:00.260And so there's a whole bunch of things happening at the same time.
00:52:03.220And it's also a little bit of, hey, we were successful with Iran.
00:52:08.480You know, all we need to do is a little flex.
00:52:33.480And chaos can easily be worse than the devil, you know, as we've seen in Libya, as we've seen in Iraq.
00:52:39.620And I would hate to see that kind of quagmire on America's shoulders, again, as much as I find Maduro utterly despicable and want to see this guy out of power.
00:54:01.700Did you, I imagine we all came in with some hope and expectation that we can turn the page, that maybe the power personality, the relationships between the two leaders that could be persuaded.
00:54:12.280I mean, did, where do you think we are right now?
00:54:15.340Was, was the bilat up in Alaska a complete abject failure?
00:54:48.500And in fact, that first phone call he had with Putin, he, it was a two hour phone call.
00:54:52.780He didn't even coordinate with the allies in advance.
00:54:54.840So he gave Putin so much more respect as an equivalent great power.
00:55:02.400The way, when he met with Xi Jinping the last time around, when he spoke with him, that he said, this is a G2 meeting, right?
00:55:09.900I mean, he's seeding the field of we're the two great nations, right?
00:55:14.800No one, no other American president would do that.
00:55:16.960And so between that and saying that he would end the sanctions and he would no longer freeze the assets and they could work together on arms control and up in the Arctic and critical mineral exploitation, there was a lot that was being offered.
00:55:30.960And Trump had already showed through the Ukrainians that he was willing to really pressure Ukraine to accept a ceasefire with no preconditions, which again, Biden didn't do.
00:55:41.080I mean, Biden, I'd be talking to Jake Sullivan, I'd be talking to like, you know, all of the people around Biden and they'd be saying, well, we can't really get them to accept the terms for a ceasefire.
00:55:52.900The Europeans are having a hard time with it.
00:55:55.940Trump went directly to the source, got that done.
00:55:59.320But Putin was absolutely uninterested in moving an inch on a ceasefire.
00:56:07.800And kind of humiliated Trump, honestly.
00:56:11.760And I think that Trump has taken it personally.
00:56:14.140Even though he clearly doesn't want to escalate against Russia, he now has put himself in a position where he is escalating against Russia.
00:56:22.820He is directly permissioning missiles that the Americans have provided to Ukraine and allowing them to take it out of the box.
00:56:32.120In other words, going far deeper in terms of their strikes with U.S. intelligence on targeting, taking out Russian energy capabilities.
00:56:40.420And that's why oil prices have been started to push up in the high 60s and might go to 70.
00:56:45.760Wouldn't shock me in that environment.
00:56:48.080Trump also on Luke oil, on Rosneft, telling the Indians, I'm willing to give you a trade deal.
00:56:53.960But part of that is you stop buying that oil from Russia.
00:56:57.620Biden was willing to allow them to buy that oil from Russia.
00:57:00.960So, I mean, for all of the talk about how Trump has been some kind of a Russian asset, the reality is Trump wanted a good relationship with Putin.
00:57:11.460He doesn't care about the human rights abuses.
00:57:13.540He doesn't care about the fact that he's dictated.
00:57:14.920That could even be a feature, not a bug.
00:57:16.800But now that Trump has humiliated him, not given him what he wants, Trump's pretty angry.
00:57:22.440And Trump can also legitimately say, hey, the Europeans are doing most of the lifting now.
01:10:41.080And are we, again, am I overstating the impacts in the medium and long term in terms of the damage?
01:10:46.960There'll be done these alliances, truth, trust, these relations, easy to damage stuff, hard to build those things back.
01:10:52.240So I think you can't look at the whole elephant, all of the damage that's being done to so much American trust and soft power and commitment
01:11:06.100that has been undone, unwound unnecessarily, and think that it's all just going to be fine because these countries have nowhere else to go.
01:11:16.940It is true that they have nowhere else good to go, right?
01:11:22.020There is no other market that you would bet on as much as you would bet on the United States at this point and in the near term future.
01:11:32.560And, you know, it's not death by a thousand cuts, but it's a lot of injury by a thousand cuts, you know?
01:11:38.660I mean, you know, you're Gulliver and you take enough Lilliputians and eventually your limbs don't work quite as well, right?
01:11:45.020And they are, a lot of them are Lilliputians because, and I don't mean to disparage, but the fact is that the big change in the U.S. alliance system in the last 30 years has been American allies getting weaker.
01:12:45.460We don't want the EU to break apart where we have much stronger relations with individual European countries that we can drag into the dirt and force them to do what we want.
01:12:56.500Because a stronger EU is more capable of being a useful ally with the United States and fighting against Russia, fighting against China, and maybe even forcing them over time to align more with our own interests.
01:13:10.380A strong Canada, a strong Japan, a strong South Korea.
01:13:13.940That's the message that you want, that the Americans need friends, but they need capable friends.
01:13:20.020That's a message that allows, and yeah, there's got to be some tough love, that if you don't do these things, that we're not going to give you what we did before.
01:13:28.300But it's not we want to destroy the EU.
01:13:30.840It's not that we want the anti-establishment populace who don't care about your strength to win in these individual countries just because those people happen to like me and we're simpatico on the global stage.
01:13:43.940Where short-term, Trump is like, of course I want, you know, sort of the AFD.
01:13:48.220Of course I want, you know, sort of reform in the UK.
01:13:51.020And these guys would completely undermine the productivity of their own countries.
01:13:56.760So that's where I think there's real misalignment.
01:14:00.160It's not that the Americans don't understand the symptoms of what's ailing everyone geopolitically, but the cure that they're offering is going to make the patient worse.
01:14:14.440You wrote a book, Us Versus Them, talked about this notion of, you know, well, you framed globalization in, I think, a very honest and reflective way.
01:14:31.600I would say this is a period where the United States is no longer driving globalization.
01:14:36.160There are still processes of globalization that are occurring.
01:14:38.840I mean, when I think about globalization, I think about people and goods and services and capital ideas moving across borders faster and faster all over the world.
01:14:46.860There are certainly lots of that that is happening more and more.
01:14:51.120But the United States is no longer driving it.
01:14:54.540In many ways, the U.S. is assertively moving away from it.
01:14:59.340And there is a level of decoupling happening directly between the United States and China and forcing other countries to make uncomfortable decisions.
01:15:10.240So, yeah, I don't think we're in an environment where globalization is, you know, sort of being driven by the economists and the political scientists don't have anything to say about it.
01:15:19.580The politics are throwing sand in the gears and it acts as a tax on the productivity.
01:15:26.640But we can't just think of this in terms of the economic shift.
01:15:29.600We also have to recognize that so much of this is that the U.S. political system, while the U.S. economy has been doing so well, the U.S. dollar has been doing so well, the U.S. political system is not.
01:15:39.460And I think this is the fundamental issue that when I started my work on my Ph.D. back in 1989, the wall came down.
01:15:47.720And I think part of the reason I wanted to do what I do is because this was a time of great pride to be an American.
01:15:55.320Because the wall coming down, I mean, you had all these captive nations, East Bloc, Soviet Union, were looking at our system and saying, damn, I wish my country worked like that.
01:16:04.620I wish I had some of that liberty, some of that rule of law.
01:16:06.980And in 35 years, people still want access to the U.S. market and our technologies and our companies best in the world.
01:16:15.600But nobody around the world looks at the U.S. political system and says, I wish my political system ran like that in 35 years.
01:16:24.600And I think that it is very hard to overestimate the impact of that damage on relations around the world long term.
01:16:35.420Because you're no longer driving what people want to be.
01:16:55.440I'll get to the rule of dawn, which you coined, which I've cripped.
01:16:58.760This notion of co-equal branches of government.
01:17:01.640What aspects of our political system do you fear are most being, you know, are looked at negatively now in that respect?
01:17:14.540They're fundamental on the global stage.
01:17:18.120You talk about commitment to being the architect of global free trade, which the United States is no longer willing to do.
01:17:26.940And not only that, but the idea of a well-regulated free market, increasingly people looking at the U.S. and saying this is a country that supports kleptocracy.
01:17:36.020This is a country that supports state corruption.
01:17:39.160And that the best way to cut a deal is to make sure that you're paying off the right people that are close to the administration.
01:17:43.980So you're talking, I mean, now you're getting into, I mean, just looking at the self-dealing, looking at.
01:18:15.060Well, there are plenty of reasons why they've sold out because there's so many examples of law firms and universities and media companies, not least of which some of my friends and CEOs that have sold out.
01:18:56.960And arguably, NATO is stronger than it was before because it's expanded a couple Nordic countries and the countries are spending more.
01:19:03.800But the belief that the United States would actually stand for collective security if a country was invaded, that's deteriorated significantly.
01:19:14.080And, you know, that belief in American reliability is core to collective security.
01:20:00.140We don't like we don't like something that we created making us look, you know, some reflective on ourselves.
01:20:06.500But I think all of these things from the perspective of other countries around the world that really do need rule of law, they really do need collective security.
01:20:16.480They do need U.S.-led multilateral trade because otherwise they don't have the ability to operate in a in a global system that is a law of the jungle.
01:20:36.000Well, you talk about apex predators or this notion that sort of T-Rex presidency where the guy either devours you or he mates with you one or the other.
01:20:47.760But I mean, this notion of the rule of the jungle and the rule of dawn and and I, you know, I've used your phrase and I hope it is dawning on people how real and serious that is.
01:30:54.640You know, my mother used to read the Inquirer every weekend.
01:30:58.560She didn't have a high school education.
01:30:59.880And she wasn't, you know, she wasn't on top of all the global issues.
01:31:05.280But she knew in her heart that these people with a lot of money and a lot of power in the United States weren't going to take care of her and her kids.
01:31:15.900And, you know, this is before algorithms, this is before the blogosphere, this is before cable news, but nonetheless, you know, and I think that what we see today with the Epstein files, after decades of Americans, wealthy Americans, just not taking enough care of their fellow citizens.
01:31:35.020The wealthiest people in the world right now, Americans, how much do they actually care, do they feel responsibility and accountability for their fellow citizens?
01:31:46.920Never mind the rest of the people on the planet, which I would kind of like if they'd pay attention to that too, but just their fellow citizens.
01:31:53.060I mean, you know, Bill Gates is revered around the world for a lot of what he has done.
01:32:46.260I mean, you mentioned AI should give us more optimism than pessimism.
01:32:50.600But what does, what aspects of some of these global trend lines that we opened up with give you more confidence and distill you with a bigger sense of well-being than perhaps most of us are aware of?
01:35:29.540And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long.
01:35:32.940I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't.
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01:35:46.220So check out The Mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
01:35:51.560On an all-new episode of iHeartRadio's Las Culturistas, Emmy, Golden Globe, and Tony Award winner Sarah Paulson spills on red carpet hacks.
01:36:01.300We saw these pictures, and you're like, what is the story with this?
01:36:04.060She gets real about the inspiration behind her roles.
01:36:07.100Oh, no, there is no end to how people will behave.
01:36:09.900And she puts hosts Matt Rogers and Bo and Yang on notice.
01:36:25.180I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who've had massive success about their massive failures.
01:36:47.040Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kev On Stage, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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01:36:53.760On this week's episode of The Next Chapter, I, DD Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer.
01:37:05.760I could feel inside myself at four or five years old, looking through the screen on the back porch, that this is not going to be my life.
01:37:15.280This is the next chapter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.