This is Gavin Newsom - And, This Is How To Celebrate America 250 With Ken Burns

00:00:00.000 We live in a place right now where it actually pays to promote division.

00:00:05.260 I do not think somebody should enrich themselves in office.

00:00:09.380 Let's go back to arguing about the things that matter without demonizing.

00:00:14.840 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:00:17.440 And this is Ken Burns.

00:00:21.820 This is an iHeart Podcast.

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00:00:56.700 Hey everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers.

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00:02:29.540 Hi, Governor.

00:02:30.640 Hey, Ken. How are you?

00:02:31.400 Nice to meet you.

00:02:32.600 I know that background well.

00:02:37.080 I'm sorry to say, I think that there are, as you know, there are 342 million podcasts.

00:02:43.160 And I've done half of them, and I'm absolutely certain, not in this case, that I'm speaking to myself and to the person I'm talking to.

00:02:52.840 At least now I know that there's at least a few other people listening.

00:02:56.680 God bless you, man.

00:02:58.480 Yeah, no, I imagine that's got to be the biggest change for you since you started this, right?

00:03:04.220 20 years ago had been the broadcast worker in person.

00:03:07.700 Now it's ubiquity.

00:03:09.100 Oh, yeah.

00:03:09.580 Well, we're still doing all of the old stuff.

00:03:11.640 I mean, I've been doing it for it's it's almost 50 years. And, you know, we started off in film and analog, you know, with razor blades, cutting film and taping them together and drawing grease pencils on the film and then, you know, digital editing and then and videotape.

00:03:28.120 And we were always 10 years behind intentionally so that the technological tail didn't wag the dog.

00:03:35.600 And so we're just, you know, perpetually Luddites catching up with everything.

00:03:40.840 But we're doing the old broadcast stuff, too.

00:03:43.160 I went to 40 cities, had 80 screenings, you know, but also did 75 podcasts from Joe Rogan to, you know, whatever the comparable is on the other side.

00:03:54.540 Mark Twain said, if you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. So I said the same thing to Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn, as I said to the New York Times, to inner city kids in Charleston and Detroit and suburban kids in Chicagoland and all the other places.

00:04:11.100 and it it worked out okay because the story is so compelling that a lot of these divisions which

00:04:18.020 we think are completely clogging our arteries fall away because if you tell if you tell a good story

00:04:25.240 then you tell a good story and everybody's got a got an interest in a good story when you were

00:04:30.620 talking to theo and joe and guys like that that may be you know perceived on a number of issues

00:04:34.960 lean a little bit more to the right. Were they surprised by the fact that we are so surprised

00:04:41.800 by this division that we have in this country? And you're able to contextualize that and say,

00:04:46.720 you know, give me a break, you know, particularly with this film, which is as much about the civil

00:04:51.500 war, not just the world war. Right. No, no, no. And I think one of the things about the revolution

00:04:56.660 is that it is a civil war. It's a revolution. And we've sort of made it gallant and bloodless

00:05:02.820 because I think, you know, accepting the violence of the Civil War and the 20th century wars,

00:05:08.440 we don't want to have anything take away from the big ideas in Philadelphia in 76 and then in

00:05:13.660 1787. But in fact, if you tell the correct story, those ideas aren't diminished in any way. They're

00:05:19.900 actually made even more impressive that we were born in violence. So I think that the divisions

00:05:25.400 that we experience now are part of the narcissism. It's always the best time or the worst time that

00:05:30.640 we're living in. So I think everybody's less aware of the way in which they might contribute

00:05:34.720 to those divisions than they want to just sort of repeat the same thing over and over again.

00:05:39.100 And I'd suggest that, yeah, we're really divided, but not as bad as the revolution,

00:05:43.360 not as bad as the Civil War, not as bad as the period of reconstruction right after the Civil

00:05:48.200 War, which I'm working on a film on right now called Emancipation to Exodus, not during the

00:05:53.320 Depression, like the second war, Vietnam. You remember Vietnam, 69 to 75, hundreds of bombings.

00:06:00.640 Hundreds of bombings. And so I think the good thing about the study of history is it gives you a little bit of perspective and a little bit of even optimism.

00:06:10.720 You know, if you accept a priori that optimism is not a pejorative or a naive position, but in fact, a legitimate stake, which is, you know, we'll get through this.

00:06:22.040 I love it. And as we get through, I want to get back to more deeply that the current project and not just the ones you're working on, but the one we're here to really celebrate and at least reflect upon as we reflect on the 250th anniversary.

00:06:37.180 But I'm curious, you know, just going back to how we began casually the conversation.

00:06:41.480 It's interesting. You talked about, I love this, no sort of a razor blade editing back in the day, et cetera.

00:06:47.200 And now as you're out on podcasts and you're sort of battling traditional media, people in person, and then, of course, online and so many different podcasts.

00:06:55.940 But when you were doing those first films, what was, I mean, what did Ken Burns, what was, how did you go out there and promote these things?

00:07:02.000 Was it primarily through the platform at PBS or, you know, what was it finding your way onto Oprah as a sort of monumental moment and achievement?

00:07:11.840 Yeah, so that's exactly right. And it still remains the same.

00:07:15.100 It's still PBS is the broadcast platform is great.

00:07:18.120 Only this time, the American Revolution, you know, six parts, 12 hours comes out in mid-November last year.

00:07:26.440 And by the end of the year, we've accumulated 18 million viewers in traditional broadcast, which is pretty damn good.

00:07:34.320 But we've hit, for the first time in PBS's history, the top 10 of streaming.

00:07:39.300 And for me, this Luddite, they've got a metric, which is at that moment, at the end of November, 565 million minutes of streaming.

00:07:47.640 You know, my kids can do the divide by 720 minutes that 12 hours is. But now it's well over 4 billion. And that's a big deal. And it was a big deal that we broke the top 10. But it's an even bigger deal that we now have something in which we're told that, you know, conservatives only like Yellowstone, as if that's a simplistic story. And it's not. And that, you know, liberals only like this. And it's, it's not true.

00:08:15.400 The novelist Richard Powers said something that I've been quoting for years now.

00:08:20.900 He said, the best arguments in the world, and that's all we do is argue, won't change a single person's point of view.

00:08:27.080 The only thing that can do that is a good story.

00:08:29.720 Because in a computer world where everything's a one or a zero, in a media culture where everything's red state or blue state, young or old, black or white, gay or straight, rich or poor, north or south, east or west, all the dialectics that we are preoccupied with, which don't actually exist.

00:08:45.400 There's no room for the complexity that we extend to the people we love, to the friends that we have, to the colleagues that we work with, to the understanding that the struggles are within us.

00:08:56.200 We lament that there are no heroes today, Governor, and if you go back and say, well, where does the notion of heroism come from?

00:09:05.360 It comes from the Greeks, and they endowed their gods with these examples for us mortals to study.

00:09:12.020 And are those gods perfect?

00:09:13.480 No.

00:09:14.380 Achilles has his heel and his hubris to go along with his great strengths.

00:09:17.500 So heroism is really a negotiation, sometimes a war within a person over their great strengths. 0.99

00:09:23.780 So if you leave George Washington out on his marble statue collecting pigeon shit, he seems perfect. 0.98

00:09:30.600 You know, never tells a lie, cut down a cherry tree, coin across the Potomac. 0.98

00:09:34.420 But if you examine him and understand that he's a very human character, he owns 577 human beings in his lifetime.

00:09:43.120 as the writer Rick Atkinson said, you can't square that circle. He's right. He's rash on

00:09:48.420 the battlefield, risking the entire cause by rushing out into the field. If he's killed or

00:09:53.540 captured, it's all over. He makes some tactical mistakes that are in some ways inexcusable. And

00:10:00.000 yet he's able to convince people to fight him the dead of night. He defers to Congress. He has great

00:10:05.160 humility. He picks subordinate talent, generals that are better than him, like Benedict Arnold

00:10:09.700 and Nathaniel Green, and he twice gives up power. Military at the height of his military power

00:10:18.160 and the presidency at the height of his political power. And that has set us in motion. So you can

00:10:23.640 have in a story that we tell, which is as much bottom up as it is top down, you can have the

00:10:29.060 almost exhilarating, you know, off-brand thing that we don't have a country without him. And yet,

00:10:36.440 in order to tell the story correctly, you know, you have to do all the other things. We live in

00:10:41.860 a highlight world, right? Babe Ruth comes up, he hits a home run, right? But Babe Ruth struck out

00:10:47.900 many more times than he hit home runs. And Babe Ruth only comes up once every nine times at bat.

00:10:53.360 So sometimes, as any inhabitant of Los Angeles can tell you, sometimes it's the middle infielder,

00:11:00.880 Sometimes it's the second baseman that is the deciding factor in any given moment.

00:11:06.360 So we're obligated to tell a complicated history.

00:11:10.260 There's no other word.

00:11:11.600 It's almost redundant, complicated history or complicated human being.

00:11:16.360 And that any attempt to simplify it is really just the work of an authoritarian.

00:11:20.940 That is to say, we're going to make this simple.

00:11:23.100 We're going to keep you uninformed.

00:11:24.360 We're going to keep you subscribing to superstitions and conspiracy theories that distract you from the fact that I have my boot on the back of your neck.

00:11:34.380 Did was that I mean, was that omnipresent, you know, 200 years ago, this this notion of censoring historic facts, rewriting history was, you know, was was that constantly present?

00:11:46.140 Yeah, I think that, you know, disinformation is always I'm sure the first conversation between two human beings ever was a lie.

00:11:53.440 you know or at least a lie was part of that and i think that we do a disservice and say oh our time

00:11:59.060 is worse you know the chicken littles the sky's falling i remember when you know when new

00:12:03.260 technologies come along like oh say the telegraph in the 1850s people are are wringing their hands

00:12:08.920 this is the end of letter writing it's the end of this and so i think yeah there's a lot in fact

00:12:13.500 sam adams who we think of as a beer um he he was a failure as a brewer and a tax collector but he

00:12:20.860 really good propagandists. And he said something that reminded me of our current media landscape.

00:12:25.700 He said, there were times when the British would acquiesce. Okay, the Stamp Act, we're done with

00:12:30.560 it. We're not going to impose it. And so everybody, the Sons of Liberty disband and it's all over.

00:12:35.860 And Sam Adams is going, no, they're just going to do something bad. And he said, my job was to keep

00:12:40.360 my fellow countrymen alive to their grievances. Right? Sound familiar? In which you only have a

00:12:47.580 politics that has to do with them and us. And my whole thing is that I've been making films about

00:12:54.260 the U.S., but I've also been making films about us, that is to say, the lowercase two-letter

00:13:00.140 plural pronoun, all of the intimacy of us and we and our, and all of the majesty, complexity,

00:13:07.940 contradiction, and even controversy of the U.S. But the one thing I've learned, if I've learned

00:13:13.180 to anything is that there's no them. There's no them. There's only us. And that whenever anyone

00:13:19.380 creates a them, it is for an agenda that is not one that is in sync with what a pluralistic

00:13:29.320 democracy is. I mean, we're now, we now have been, over the last 50 years, I've watched the word

00:13:35.240 liberal fall, shot dead, you know, at a firing squad. I've watched all these sorts of things.

00:13:41.180 And we just witnessed the end of DEI. But, you know, isn't e pluribus unum DEI? You know, that's our Latin motto, that we're going to figure out how to come together. Jefferson says a couple sentences after the second one, the great one.

00:13:59.000 He says, all experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are

00:14:04.540 sufferable.

00:14:05.340 It's not hard to parse.

00:14:06.340 It just means that heretofore in the history of human beings, people have been subjects.

00:14:13.740 And we're creating something new called citizens.

00:14:16.460 And it's going to take an extra amount of energy to do that.

00:14:19.160 And human beings will naturally devolve to the camps, to the tribal stuff.

00:14:23.560 But we're actually going to experiment.

00:14:25.100 We're going to put the Enlightenment into practice, and we're going to call it the United States of America, and we're going to be in pursuit of happiness, not things, but knowledge and virtue, and we're going to be after a more perfect union.

00:14:38.100 It's going to require a lot of coming together, but we live in a place right now where it's so – it actually pays to promote division.

00:14:48.340 Pays to promote division.

00:14:49.660 I couldn't agree more with that. 0.64

00:14:50.660 This interest, you know, it's interesting, but this notion, you know, in the Bible teaches us many parts, one body, one part suffers, we all suffer.

00:14:59.440 This, this, you know, Dr. King talked so evocatively about that.

00:15:02.900 We're all bound together by that web of mutuality.

00:15:05.720 And, and, but I think about this and I think about it in the context of what you're, you know, so much of the work you're doing and so much of the notion of myth and this sort of chiseled notion of a monument, et cetera, and, and, and how we sanitize so much of that.

00:15:19.720 But the importance of myth at the same time, this notion of the things that bind us together, not just celebrating our interesting differences, but how we can be bound together.

00:15:29.560 I mean, where's that tension between, you know, when I talk about California and was born into genocide, the first governor in California, 1851, Burnett literally talked about the war and extermination.

00:15:41.700 It was his first state of the state speech.

00:15:43.440 But I use that language and people are immediately offended and find it shameful.

00:15:48.780 and I'm not providing context. He was in the vast majority. He was truly representative

00:15:53.660 of the time. And so what's that, you know, this notion of myth and the importance of myth,

00:15:58.740 the importance of things that we can unite around. How do you find that tension? Or you

00:16:03.560 just try to go straight to the facts? Well, you know, we were interested,

00:16:07.780 Governor, in calling balls and strikes. So I'm interested in the facts, however messy. I have

00:16:11.260 in my editing room a neon sign that's been there for years and years and years, the main editing

00:16:15.660 room. And it says it's complicated in lowercase cursive neon. And that's what you want to do.

00:16:20.880 The mythologies grow up around a desire to simplify and control that history. So say with

00:16:27.260 the revolution, you inherit something that is really just about white men when half the population

00:16:31.380 women are deeply involved. The revolution doesn't happen without the resistance that leads up to it

00:16:37.100 in the nearly decade of resistance. And women are at the heart of that. They're the buyers in each 1.00

00:16:41.760 homestead. There are among the two and a half to three million Americans in the time of resistance

00:16:46.540 and at the beginning of the revolution, two and a half to three million Americans, 500,000 of whom

00:16:51.760 are free or enslaved black people. There are within those 13 colonies becoming states,

00:16:57.900 native peoples whose land has already been acquired and they have either assimilated

00:17:02.300 or they're trying to figure out how to coexist. And on the Western border, there are dozens

00:17:06.900 of nations um that are as um as as individual and as important on a global stage uh economically

00:17:17.680 diplomatically militarily as say france and prussia are and we don't extend to them we just

00:17:24.180 say them and we also remember we don't call ourselves the uh the the eastern seaboard

00:17:30.320 congress who appoints george washington the head of the eastern seaboard army they know what's out

00:17:36.100 there. They've heard of California. They know what's there. And they are a continental army

00:17:40.600 and they're planning to get it. So all of a sudden, you have really interesting dynamics

00:17:44.520 of black Americans deciding to side with the British or fight with the patriots or Native

00:17:50.280 Americans doing the same things that are sometimes dividing their old alliances and confederacies

00:17:56.280 and destroying them. There's one woman, a Mohegan woman from, I assume, Connecticut,

00:18:02.000 north central connecticut named rebecca tanner who loses five sons five sons uh fighting for

00:18:08.780 the patriot cause and so we have a much more interesting it's a very of an enormous variety

00:18:15.460 people people in my state of new hampshire where i've lived for the last 47 years um and georgia

00:18:21.820 feel like they're from different countries they're like totally different the idea that

00:18:26.120 someone like Washington or Thomas Paine or Thomas Jefferson or others that we don't know that much

00:18:33.420 about. Mercy Otis Warren is the first historian of the American Revolution, a friend of Abigail

00:18:39.720 Adams. It's nice when you have Meryl Streep reading off camera and bringing Mercy Otis Warren

00:18:44.260 alive. But they're talking about how it might be that we could not be an individual thing,

00:18:50.140 but a one thing. And that, you know, it's the first idea that then Washington's really great

00:18:56.400 as he's trying to inspire men to fight in the dead of night. And often they're teenagers,

00:19:01.240 children, it's not all the militia men, they're going back to plant their crops or to reap their

00:19:06.700 crops. And what happens is the Continental Army becomes filled with narrative wells and teenagers

00:19:11.940 and recent immigrants. And so democracy becomes not the intention of the revolution, it becomes 0.97

00:19:17.580 a byproduct. Because all of a sudden, you can't just win against the greatest power on earth

00:19:22.640 without foreign help, the French. But you also can't win unless you say, we're going to give 0.98

00:19:29.560 you something for the sacrifices that you've made. And so what happens is that you emerge with a

00:19:34.680 kind of fledgling democracy out of what was going to be a republic, a kind of aristocracy. The right

00:19:41.040 would say the elites who control everything. But those elites are the guys that we're supposed to

00:19:45.800 all agree that we like are are are george washington and thomas jefferson and benjamin

00:19:50.300 franklin and and patrick henry and you know james mason and james monroe and all of the

00:19:56.040 the so-called founding fathers and and they're they are they're a remarkable group of people but

00:20:02.080 you can't tell a complete story without the balls and strikes and everybody else who gets

00:20:06.520 to come to bat and when you uh and when you endeavored i mean what's this you said it was

00:20:11.220 10 year process from the idea. So I released a film a year. Yeah. I looked up from a map that

00:20:17.420 we were doing it while we were finishing our Vietnam series and in, um, in, in December of

00:20:22.700 2015, Barack Obama, remember him used to had 13 months to go in his presidency. And I said,

00:20:28.380 we're doing the American revolution. And I knew it would take that. No one was talking semi

00:20:32.420 quintentennial. No one was talking to 50th about halfway through. I thought, man, if we accelerate,

00:20:38.680 right. We could be at the 250th of Lexington and Concord. And my co-director, Sarah Botstein,

00:20:44.240 correctly corrected me and said, we'll still be mixing it online and you'll be out on the road

00:20:48.520 promoting it. It'll be in the fall. I said, okay. And then I realized, oh, well, there's going to

00:20:53.880 be a celebration. At least we might be offering something a little bit more substantive than what

00:21:00.300 I worried would be kind of fife and drum treacle, you know, that you would just devolve to the lowest

00:21:05.240 common denominator of an unexamined patriotism. And then, of course, we're in the circumstances

00:21:11.700 that we're in where we really have an opportunity in crisis to look back at our founding, just as

00:21:17.120 an individual would do. You'd go to a pastor or a professional, and the first thing they'd ask you

00:21:21.680 is, where'd you come from? Who are your parents? What are your early life like? So if you go back

00:21:26.280 to your origin story as a way to reset, recommit to those ideals that were brand new on July 4th,

00:21:33.980 1776 we are there's some folks called citizens and there's the only place is the eastern seaboard

00:21:40.380 of the united states white men of property mostly but it's going to grow and the second you break

00:21:46.620 out this argument between englishmen uh into natural rights saying oh no we hold these truths

00:21:52.880 to be self-evident jefferson wrote it um governor he wrote we hold these truths to be sacred and

00:21:58.320 undeniable which would be a really good enlightenment i want to make an argument to you

00:22:02.220 This is what we believe, right?

00:22:05.540 Franklin gets it and says, you know, no, no, no, self-evident.

00:22:09.460 There's nothing self-evident about these ideas.

00:22:12.460 But as someone said in a film we made about Franklin a few years ago, that it's the old lawyer's dodge.

00:22:17.640 You know, you just say it's self-evident and then you make it.

00:22:21.060 So these are people on the outer edge of human thought saying, oh, yeah, isn't this obvious?

00:22:27.080 And once you break that out, as hypocritical as the tolerance of slavery by many of the founders is, slavery is done. It may take too long, obviously, because one minute more in slavery is bad. Women will get the vote, even though it's a shameful 144 years from that day before they will have it.

00:22:47.260 gay marriage is going to happen. All of these things get unlocked. When you take, no pun intended,

00:22:53.900 John Locke's life, liberty, property, we change it to pursuit of happiness, not objects, but

00:22:58.820 lifelong learning to be more virtuous. When you unlock that human energy, look what we created,

00:23:04.860 the greatest country on earth for all the flaws. And I'm more than happy to spend the rest of our

00:23:10.080 time together enumerating those things or to understand that they come together and they're

00:23:15.340 they're um they're not mutually exclusive they are actually kind of lawfully bound to each other

00:23:21.500 just as we make advances um in the mid 18th century franklin was disturbed by german immigration

00:23:30.400 to pennsylvania and he said i like the lovely white and red meaning the white english settlers

00:23:39.380 and the native americans and he thought the germans and this will come as a shock to everybody

00:23:44.360 were thwarty and they were, you know, they were not befitting the character. Then all of a sudden

00:23:50.180 we're letting everybody in, German immigrants, Irish immigrants, whatever. Then the doors are

00:23:54.680 completely in, in the, in the early 19th century, people are trying to shut it down. No, no Catholics 1.00

00:23:59.640 can come. No, keep the Irish out. Let's, let's not do that. And then from 1870 till 1920, it's 1.00

00:24:06.340 wide open, except for, as you know, the Chinese Exclusion Act attempting to regulate the inflow of,

00:24:12.980 of Asian peoples to the United States. And then in the 1920s, the door slammed shut. The Johnson

00:24:21.920 Reed Immigration Act in 24 sets quotas. So it's going to make it impossible for us to respond to 0.98

00:24:27.300 the Holocaust, even though we let in more people than any other sovereign nation. I have to say 0.96

00:24:32.340 sovereign because of the number of people who immigrated to Palestine. But we could have saved 0.88

00:24:36.720 so many more human beings if we weren't imprisoned, locked into this straitjacket

00:24:41.480 of Johnson Reed. And then you'd be making a dent in the 6 million number that we throw out without

00:24:47.020 thinking. There are 9 million Jews in Europe in 1933. And by 1945, two out of three are dead.

00:24:54.380 That's another way of saying 6 million. But if we'd knock that down by a million or 2 million

00:24:59.900 or 3 million, which we could have easily done, think where we'd be in terms of our own greatness

00:25:06.220 and our own thing, but those impulses towards anti-Semitism, the impulses to make of them

00:25:13.200 somebody who's Catholic or black or female or different are always going to be part of

00:25:20.660 the complexion. And as difficult as it is to, and I don't need to tell you, to manage a modern

00:25:26.960 democracy, there's no other, you know, and the temptation is to regulate it, you know, and say,

00:25:33.700 no, it's got to be this one way. We can only have this superficial history. There's no better

00:25:38.380 form of government as chaotic as it is, as uncertain. The great jurist, learned hand,

00:25:45.140 I mean, Governor, could there ever be a better name for a judge than learned hand,

00:25:49.520 said liberty is never being too sure you're right. And there's a sort of sense now as we try to

00:25:57.320 impose our will on chaotic events that the opposite of faith must be doubt. No, doubt is

00:26:03.500 central to faith. The opposite of faith is certainty. That kills faith. And yet we see

00:26:10.820 the damage that is done in the name of faith, that my faith is the only faith. That's why

00:26:16.900 many of the founders sort of gravitated toward what's called deism, particularly Thomas Jefferson.

00:26:23.020 And that is this idea that there is a supreme being, a supreme architect, divine providence, however you do it, but disinterested in the affairs of men and obviously making no distinction between faiths.

00:26:38.220 So Jefferson has this wonderful line, if my neighbor believes in 20 gods or no God at all, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

00:26:47.760 I mean, just think about how much we're governed by the intolerance of the people who want

00:26:55.780 to make distinctions between their correct right set of facts and someone else's.

00:27:02.460 Does it, I mean, in contemporary terms, we're talking on a day where the Supreme Court is

00:27:07.880 hearing arguments on sort of a core construct.

00:27:10.880 When you talk about the Chinese Exclusion Act, its origin stories in the San Francisco

00:27:14.920 Bay Area, Oakland. The original, forgive me, Donald Trump, I think, was Dennis Kearney,

00:27:19.400 who began and ended every speech, the Working Men's Party, with the Chinese must go. And I go 0.99

00:27:25.160 down to Chinatown and the museums there, and you'll see the virtual walls being built to keep

00:27:30.340 the Chinese out, led to the Chinese Exclusion Act. And obviously, part of the oral arguments

00:27:34.620 today in the Supreme Court were around the Wong decision in the late 1880s. What do you make of,

00:27:39.980 I mean, it just, it sounds like, I mean, none of this, again, nothing is surprising.

00:27:44.300 It's very consistent with that thread of history.

00:27:46.440 Well, you know, everybody likes to say in a kind of lazy fashion that history repeats itself.

00:27:51.640 It doesn't.

00:27:52.520 No event has ever happened twice.

00:27:54.920 Ecclesiastes, which governors the Old Testament, says what has been will be again.

00:28:00.460 What has been done will be done again.

00:28:02.340 There's nothing new under the sun.

00:28:03.820 It means that human nature doesn't change and it superimposes itself over the seemingly random chaos of events.

00:28:11.120 And we see echoes, patterns, themes, motifs, or as Mark Twain is supposed to have said, rhymes.

00:28:17.600 You know, history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

00:28:19.380 So all these things are there and there are lazy ways to approach this subject.

00:28:23.380 To be a, I mean, America at its best, you know, has always been pluralistic and like an alloy benefiting from all the ingredients that went into it.

00:28:37.920 When it's at its worst is when it's nativist and saying, oh, there's really only one us and you're definitely not part of that.

00:28:46.780 And this attempt at, I mean, look, one of my favorite amendments is the 14th. And the first really trumps it. But people say, oh, First Amendment, free speech or freedom to assemble. Those are number two and three.

00:29:01.420 The first is Congress will make no establishment of a religion. We're the first country on earth that didn't have an official religion. And it made all the difference. The energy it gave us by being able to draw in from the people who don't believe in any God or believe in 20 gods has been a phenomenal achievement in the course of human history.

00:29:22.940 And maybe we should just remember, starting with the Declaration and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and, you know, the Land Grant College Act and the Homestead Act and national parks and child labor and antitrust and, you know, the Social Security, labor's right to organize, the GI Bill, the interstate highway system, a man on the moon.

00:29:52.940 Medicare, Medicaid, I've said Social Security, up to the Affordable Care Act, so many things

00:30:01.240 that we have done, which have been transforming not only for our own people, but for the world.

00:30:08.460 And then you find, inevitably, the retrenchment that takes place, the people, the oligarchs,

00:30:16.020 the former slave owners who are still unhappy

00:30:19.740 of the way the Civil War took out

00:30:22.040 and want to just, you know, get back what they had before.

00:30:27.160 And you can't go back.

00:30:29.400 You have to go forward.

00:30:30.620 You got to go forward.

00:30:31.460 When you do...

00:30:33.460 Listen, and you're there

00:30:37.520 for heart-wrenching knockouts 0.84

00:30:40.820 and breathtaking triumphs

00:30:46.020 2026 FIFA World Cup.

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00:30:53.540 Join the globe.

00:30:54.380 On the road to the July 19th final.

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00:30:59.120 Stream it all live on TSN Radio.

00:31:01.740 Available on iHeartRadio.

00:31:04.340 Hey, everyone.

00:31:05.280 It's the Jonas Brothers.

00:31:06.340 If you haven't heard, our new podcast is called Hey Jonas.

00:31:08.940 And this week, we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of.

00:31:12.740 Millie Bobby Brown.

00:31:14.120 That's right.

00:31:14.580 Eleven herself.

00:31:16.020 We talk about her new movie, Enola Holmes 3, Family Life, and all the amazing things she has going on right now.

00:31:21.120 This blew my mind when I saw this, Millie Bobby Brown. 0.77

00:31:23.740 You have over 60 animals.

00:31:25.640 First of all, how do you even keep track of everybody?

00:31:27.720 And second, do you have favorites?

00:31:29.500 Who are they and why?

00:31:30.780 Yeah, I need to know about this.

00:31:32.540 Okay.

00:31:33.360 I don't know where the number's 60.

00:31:35.000 I've really got to figure that out.

00:31:36.280 And I could actually have over 60.

00:31:38.420 I just need to really know that number.

00:31:40.100 There have been plenty of sheep in my bed.

00:31:44.340 It's a big bed.

00:31:45.760 In the bed, literally sleeping in the bed, yeah.

00:31:48.360 Plus, we find out what she really feels about Stranger Things ending.

00:31:51.240 Five seasons, almost 10 years of your life.

00:31:54.180 I could have never have guessed it.

00:31:55.560 I started when I was 10 years old.

00:31:57.400 Our conversation with Millie Bobby Brown is out now.

00:31:59.480 Go check it out.

00:32:00.120 Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:32:04.860 Hey, I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

00:32:08.840 Okay, if you know me, you know this.

00:32:10.420 I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy.

00:32:16.880 So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together.

00:32:21.740 We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people.

00:32:27.240 Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming.

00:32:33.780 I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult.

00:32:38.040 There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression.

00:32:40.720 I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety.

00:32:42.920 Olympic champ Shawn Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast.

00:32:47.800 There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me.

00:32:52.100 It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us.

00:32:56.220 We just have to find it.

00:32:57.600 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app,

00:33:01.340 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:33:08.040 My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin, Samira and Gracie.

00:33:14.540 I'm so excited.

00:33:15.800 On a bouncy bed.

00:33:16.800 You have surprises.

00:33:18.540 Many surprises.

00:33:20.040 Welcome to Suite 305, where the group chat comes to life.

00:33:23.040 What up, .

00:33:24.540 It's like a way to say,

00:33:26.540 hello, friend, hello, best friend, hello, sister.

00:33:28.740 What up, .

00:33:30.040 Look, I've never talked to anyone.

00:33:32.540 Except with my children. My children know.

00:33:34.540 You're the only person I know

00:33:43.940 that loves a yellow starburst.

00:33:45.440 It's lemonade.

00:33:46.860 There's no one that's missing you.

00:33:48.420 Like you say,

00:33:49.420 I'd like to collaborate with this person.

00:33:53.640 This is Sweet 305.

00:33:55.820 Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons

00:33:58.340 as part of my Cultura podcast network

00:34:00.440 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:34:01.920 Apple Podcast,

00:34:02.920 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:34:04.540 You speak of, you know, patriotism. We talk of nationalism. But what does patriotism mean to you? What how do you what's the sort of core essence of patriotism?

00:34:13.760 Well, if you deal with American patriotism first, because I'm not that, you know, there's complicated relationships to British patriotism.

00:34:22.700 We call ourselves patriots and the British call us rebels.

00:34:26.980 Never once said patriot because patriot meant something, you know, something different in Britain.

00:34:34.260 And they weren't going to ascribe us any other motives, even when they were surrendering, the British soldiers and the German soldiers were forbidden to look at the Americans.

00:34:42.580 only the French were worthy of their attention, right? We were still just a rabble. And they were

00:34:47.960 so humiliated at having, you know, the greatest military power on earth in the most far-flung 1.00

00:34:53.180 empire on earth had to admit that they had just lost to this ragtag. But who would have thought, 1.00

00:34:59.840 a German Hessian, Johann Ewald said, who would have thought a hundred years ago that out of this 0.88

00:35:04.160 multitude of rabble would arise a people who could defy kings. So if you accept an American form of 0.85

00:35:10.720 patriotism, just as a way for us to have a conversation for a few seconds, then embedded

00:35:16.100 in his sense of our own exceptionalism, which is reasonable. Lincoln says in his address to

00:35:22.140 Congress in what we'd call the State of the Union in 62, in the middle of the Civil War, just given

00:35:28.520 the Emancipation Proclamation, it won't go into effect for a few weeks, but he said, we're the

00:35:32.940 last best hope of Earth, right? He saw that. And I think Americans imbibe that and have a feeling

00:35:38.340 and the list of accomplishments that I made across time

00:35:41.000 and missing half of them are spectacular. 0.69

00:35:46.080 But if you are the best, if you are the goat of countries,

00:35:50.220 do you think Tom Brady said after he won the first,

00:35:53.060 well, now I can just rest on my lawns.

00:35:55.920 There is a kind of almost furious self-involvement,

00:36:02.240 that is to say self-reflection, Socratic, know yourself.

00:36:05.780 there's an incredible criticism, even more discipline is applied. And I think what happens

00:36:10.480 is that patriotism sort of splits off down the road. And one way is a kind of lazy thing,

00:36:16.160 fills of slogans and is basically used to exclude people. And the other patriotism,

00:36:21.540 which I think you subscribe to, is one which is energetic. It is engaged in process. It is

00:36:27.500 in pursuit of happiness. It is after a more perfect union and it involves self-reflection.

00:36:33.920 This is what our founders, when they said pursuit of happiness, was lifelong learning.

00:36:38.460 If you learned all your life, you then could earn this extraordinary gift and responsibility of citizenship.

00:36:46.340 You wanted to become more virtuous.

00:36:48.060 This is reaching back over the dark ages into antiquity and pulling out these virtues.

00:36:53.600 The most important is to be virtuous.

00:36:56.500 And that if you did that, this constant self-awareness and improvement, then you'd be okay. I mean, in the middle of the deliberations about the articles of convention, while Washington's fighting in New York City against the British and about to lose because of a bad decision, strategic tactical decision, John Adams is going, is there enough?

00:37:20.240 There's so much ambition and avarice, so much lust for profit. Is there enough virtue enough to create a republic? Those are the questions we should be asking ourselves, not is this group bad? Is it blood and soil?

00:37:34.420 I mean, if you're making a blood and soil argument, to me, you're just, you're going to say, this is the Native American story, right? Because if anybody has six or 700 generations of experience to our nine or 10, it's Native peoples.

00:37:50.180 And California, as you correctly pointed out, has an unbelievably shameful period where you have essentially state-sponsored genocide.

00:37:58.580 And people were given a bounty.

00:38:01.800 But, you know, we have this responsibility to be self-critical, to be self-improving.

00:38:11.100 If we're going to say we're the greatest, then we have to live up to that.

00:38:14.420 And that requires an incredible amount of self-examination, which you find autocrats do not want to participate in.

00:38:23.500 To do that would be to admit a mistake.

00:38:25.620 To do that would be to say there's room for me to improve.

00:38:28.480 To do that is to apologize.

00:38:30.000 To do that is to be sympathetic.

00:38:31.800 To do that is to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

00:38:35.240 And that's what people are doing.

00:38:39.300 You know, as they are now, there's a kind of muscular patriotism that I'm beginning to sense coming. And it's not a Democrat or Republican thing. It's go, wait a second, I did not sign up for this. I signed up for something else.

00:38:54.180 yes, I don't agree with you about this, taxes, or that, or whatever it might be. But I do believe

00:39:01.300 in these founding documents. I do not think that somebody should enrich themselves in office. I do

00:39:10.300 not think, I mean, the founders, if they came, as the scholar Yuval Levin told me back in November,

00:39:15.920 he said, they wouldn't be surprised that someone was seeking monarchical power. But they'd be so

00:39:21.120 surprised and so disappointed in that their first article of the constitution after the beautiful

00:39:26.620 poetic preamble written by governor morris of new york the rest of it is code it's just sort of the

00:39:32.860 operating manual it's like ikea well how the hell am i going to put this in together and the first

00:39:38.080 article is the legislative co-equal and he would be they would be so shocked that the legislated

00:39:45.240 It had yielded so much out of fear of some kind of retribution that they'd ceded the ability to tax tariffs.

00:39:52.320 That's the province of Congress.

00:39:54.300 The idea that you could change what the White House looked like or build a ballroom or slap your name on it, that's the province of Congress.

00:40:00.560 The second article, the executive, would be the managers to carry out what Congress had said.

00:40:06.860 And, oh, no, we're in too modern an age.

00:40:08.720 Things happen too fast.

00:40:09.780 So you can have wars of choice.

00:40:11.360 And inevitably, the chaos that's created, if you get back to where you were before, somehow that's an overwhelming victory.

00:40:19.000 You know, you go, OK, what Orwellian world are you living in?

00:40:25.240 Ken, when you – there's so much to unpack there.

00:40:28.000 I mean, that was – and he was a – he's a conservative historian that you were just referencing.

00:40:32.820 Oh, Yuval Levin, a conservative scholar of the Constitution.

00:40:35.220 But this is where I'm saying, we're all, if you look at Judd Ludwig, you know, these are people who are stunned at the kind of liberties that have been taken in the presumption that this is, you know, that the original founders intended a Christian nation.

00:40:52.200 They wanted a God-fearing nation, but they were saying, no, look what's happened in the

00:40:57.600 whole history of humanity when a government, you know, a kingdom has said that we have

00:41:04.260 one way, my way or the highway, you know, Protestant Henry VIII or a Catholic Louis

00:41:10.600 XIV, you know.

00:41:12.240 And if you, you know, presume that it's one thing, you've violated the entire spirit of

00:41:19.100 the United States.

00:41:19.940 Did you, I mean, talk about presumption. When you went through this project, I mean, was it, how revelatory was all of this to you over the last 10 years? I mean, for someone that knows his stuff, you must have come in with all kinds, you were like, I got this.

00:41:33.880 Yes, right, exactly. Well, I actually learned years ago to drop that arrogance because when I got my seventh or eighth film was a big history on baseball. And I go, well, I have no baseball now. And each day was a daily humiliation of what I didn't know.

00:41:53.420 And so now I just presume that I've got a kind of working man's person. I'll do all right on Jeopardy. I'm the guy who wanted trivial pursuits at your party, but I know nothing. And so rather than think about it, rather than tell you what you should know about the revolution, why don't I share with you what I just discovered, what we just discovered.

00:42:15.320 it's very much a we over the course of the last 10 years and we've got two dozen scholars and

00:42:20.960 writers and we're not we're taking what they've learned not what their political uh not what

00:42:26.800 their particular philosophy not political but their political uh their philosophy what the

00:42:31.260 historians call historiography we don't have to buy into that and so you can be strengthened

00:42:35.720 like the spokes on a wheel that give the the great dynamic strength to a wheel because you've

00:42:41.820 got lots of different perspectives isn't just one you're not seeing it through one lens you're you're

00:42:47.280 able to and this is where um story narrative which was understandably out of fashion uh by the middle

00:42:55.140 of the of the 20th century is actually still the only way to tell a story honey how was your day

00:43:01.000 does not begin i back slowly down the driveway avoiding the garbage can at the curb unless

00:43:07.180 somebody t-bones you and that's exactly the way you do it what you do is you edit human experience

00:43:11.660 and to do that you're going to have to know what that was and so we studied scholars who knew the

00:43:17.500 native american countries knew the difference between the delaware and the shawnee who were

00:43:21.420 actually partners or the creek the muskogee creeks or the cheyenne or you know whatever the the the

00:43:28.220 i mean the cherokee or the anishinabe or the hoden and shone the the cayuga uh um seneca

00:43:36.220 onondaga tuscarora oneida and mohawk that made up the the iroquois confederacy this this this

00:43:43.100 democracy in a way this union this confederacy that franklin 20 years before the revolution said

00:43:48.940 whoa this is pretty good we should try it ourselves and everybody said really good idea

00:43:53.340 and every colony said nope we don't want to give up one ounce of authority to anything

00:43:58.780 bigger than i'm than ourselves and so 20 years later this will will come to a head and we'll be

00:44:05.260 able to figure out on our own um that but it just tells you how much we're bound to each other how

00:44:11.580 much we're dependent on each other we know what the social compact is and unfortunately we live

00:44:17.820 in a world today in computers where it's one and zero or the media culture where it's one thing or

00:44:23.820 the other and we forget to select for the things that we hold in common i mean i say this to my

00:44:28.940 I have four daughters, 43 to 15.

00:44:32.020 And I just say social media isn't, right?

00:44:35.340 Right?

00:44:35.640 It's not social.

00:44:36.380 You've been in a room where people are all in their stuff.

00:44:40.340 You know, how is that connecting?

00:44:41.980 It's not.

00:44:42.620 I live in a little village in New Hampshire.

00:44:44.240 We get together.

00:44:44.960 We have a town meeting.

00:44:45.780 We decide whether we're going to buy a new bumper.

00:44:47.620 It's a big deal, you know, for the fire department.

00:44:50.960 And that's what civics has gone out of our lives.

00:44:53.200 And so, too, I think that artificial intelligence isn't.

00:44:57.480 as long as we always, I mean, is artificial intelligence is artificial. So as long as you

00:45:03.580 keep that in mind, that the glory is what our founders understood was the primacy of the

00:45:08.980 individual, right? This holds primacy. It's at the heart. The value of each human life is at the

00:45:15.400 heart of all religious practices, all of them, and particularly the children of Abraham, which

00:45:22.500 would include Christians and Jews and Muslims, where that is there, but it's not to slight

00:45:28.500 any other religion, which all has this sense of the primacy of the individual, and when

00:45:34.640 we get away with it, we say, well, you know, in Animal Farm, Orwell's Animal Farm, which

00:45:39.920 is why we have invoked the word Orwellian, the adjective Orwellian so much lately, is

00:45:46.120 that, well, some animals are more equal than others, right?

00:45:50.100 And then that's the slippery slope in which you just go back and you suddenly wake up to do that.

00:45:56.060 You know, I think our next chapter, which I think has already begun to being written, is repair and restoration.

00:46:05.320 Like, yeah.

00:46:06.340 Isaiah.

00:46:07.460 Let's go back to arguing about the things that matter without demonizing us.

00:46:13.740 You know, you just wondered, you know, for a long time, the Republican Party admirably and nobly held to this notion of the threat of communism, sometimes to great expense, if you think about the McCarthyism of the 50s, but also just the sort of the willingness to say, no, that's what it is.

00:46:31.460 But when that system collapsed, unfortunately, there was an absence, a surface of ideas.

00:46:38.100 And so what did you do?

00:46:39.140 You made Bill Clinton and then by extension, all Democrats, the enemies.

00:46:43.020 And then all of a sudden, we have people that I meet in the course of my life who believe

00:46:46.920 we're pedophiles.

00:46:47.800 I mean, actually, the stuff is coming out that it may not be limited to Democrats or

00:46:54.580 even any political party, but just bad actors.

00:46:58.200 And we need to get to the bottom of it and figure out that we don't need to, you know, keep wagging the dog here by, you know, capturing, you know, South American leaders or threatening Greenland or starting another war just to distract from information that I believe was supposed to come out in December, mid-December by law, by congressional law.

00:47:23.720 and not all of the information has come out.

00:47:26.200 And I just want to know who's being protected.

00:47:30.920 God bless.

00:47:32.480 Too much there to unpack.

00:47:34.080 I want to go back.

00:47:34.760 I'm sorry.

00:47:35.620 No, I appreciate all of it.

00:47:37.620 And this notion of being repairs of the breach, I love that.

00:47:40.460 And I think all of us need to get back a little bit to that.

00:47:44.240 But I'm curious, as you went back over the course,

00:47:47.180 and I appreciate how you sort of unpacked this journey that you went on with your team,

00:47:52.520 uh trying to understand our origin story um what were there what were they i mean begs the question

00:47:59.300 what what was most revelatory to you what did you come in and just stop you sort of stopped in your

00:48:06.240 tracks like how did i miss this how did i not understand more fully that well one of it is the

00:48:13.900 centrality of washington i mean i just was like not willing to accept that notion that he's the

00:48:19.380 father of our country. But there's a German language newspaper in Lancaster, Pennsylvania,

00:48:24.060 the spring after the first, the Valley Forge, the horrible Valley Forge, who calls him Dasland

00:48:30.500 des Vater, the country's father. And you begin to realize that invested in this person is the

00:48:37.740 future of this place. It had been captured, it had been all over. But I think it's more the

00:48:42.200 grassroots of this, how much it meant to people. Remember, if you were, this is a civil war. And

00:48:49.280 that means it's not just the British 3,000 miles away, we're just trying to throw them off. 1.00

00:48:53.280 It's our neighbors. This is a civil war. We're born in violence, at least 20% overall, but in 0.97

00:48:59.160 any given place, it might be a hotbed of loyalism. They're against it. They believe, and we don't

00:49:05.120 make them enemies, they believe, quite correctly, that the British constitutional monarchy is a

00:49:10.920 hell of a good form of government and it is their prosperity the land they have their literacy their

00:49:16.040 life expectancy their good fortune is based on and and you're asking me to give this all up

00:49:22.400 to support an idea that has never been tried before are you out of your mind the thing that

00:49:28.480 blows my mind governor is that how many people said yes to this completely new idea and that it

00:49:37.700 Not just the declaration and the list of injuries and usurpations, 18 of them, that the king, not parliament, was now guilty of.

00:49:47.040 It wasn't just common sense.

00:49:48.840 It wasn't just later on the American crisis.

00:49:51.260 These are the times that dry men sold the summer soldier and the sunshine patriot.

00:49:56.080 Already then they know there's a distinction between the people who love to wave the flag and then aren't there.

00:50:02.660 And at the end of the Declaration, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.

00:50:10.720 It means something.

00:50:12.720 George Washington may have been the richest person in the country.

00:50:16.500 He certainly was for a time.

00:50:18.520 He risked his life and his fortune and his sacred honor in support of this thing.

00:50:25.300 And that's unbelievable.

00:50:26.300 And so did a 14-year-old kid named John Greenwood from Boston.

00:50:29.900 So did a 15-year-old named Joseph Plum Martin from Connecticut.

00:50:33.920 So did a lot of people that we don't know their stories who just said, yeah, I'm throwing in with this lot.

00:50:41.880 It behooved most Native Americans to side with the British because they think at least they could forestall the onslaught into their territory of the Ohio Valley. 0.68

00:50:52.660 It was a short-term arrangement. 0.53

00:50:54.680 And then many times the British, whose empire depended entirely on the wealth that was generated from slavery, particularly in the Caribbean, they had 13 colonies there that were huge profit centers, only South Carolina and Virginia, for the reasons you can assume, are profit centers.

00:51:11.740 The rest of the colonies aren't, but we're populated and we make things, so we're good trading partners and, you know, they want to keep us from taking Indian land because they can't afford to protect us and we want to take Indian land, so it's not just taxes and representation.

00:51:26.980 So you begin to see this like dropping a stone in the water, and you follow the ripples out, and it becomes so amazing that we see.

00:51:35.840 Lexington Green, April 19, 1775, the chances of success are zero.

00:51:43.380 And six and a half years later, on the 17th of October at Yorktown, they're 100%.

00:51:50.640 Don't you want to know how that happened?

00:51:53.240 And does Washington win every battle?

00:51:54.800 No, he loses most of his battles.

00:51:57.800 The big victory at Saratoga is away from him.

00:52:01.400 He sent Daniel Morgan and most importantly, Benedict Arnold, who becomes the hero of Saratoga

00:52:06.960 for the Patriots.

00:52:08.000 We can get into Benedict Arnold later.

00:52:10.340 It's so interesting that for us, it means one thing.

00:52:13.320 And it's actually a much more dynamic, complicated thing that teaches an essential lesson about

00:52:19.400 humanity and the conflicts, not only between people, but within them.

00:52:24.140 just as George Washington is wrestling, Thomas Jefferson is wrestling. They know slavery is

00:52:28.640 wrong. They know it's wrong. And, and the, the great Harvard scholar, Annette Gordon-Reed says,

00:52:34.580 how can you do something if you know it's wrong? And she comes on camera and says, well, that's

00:52:40.220 the human question for all of us. Meaning she's not taking Thomas Jefferson off the hook and

00:52:45.020 forgiving him. She's leaving him on the hook and putting the rest of us for our sanctimonious

00:52:51.820 idea of our ability to judge another when we ourselves are walking contradictions and flaws.

00:53:00.080 So the fact that we had a success, that something was born out of here that turned out to be the

00:53:05.740 greatest country ever, right, is just spectacular to me and is a wonderful one. If you just think

00:53:15.460 that it's only spectacular, then you're, you missed a point. We had some compromises in the

00:53:21.600 constitution that were incredibly genius and some that were unbelievably tragic that perpetuated

00:53:29.560 the institution of slavery, even when they knew, I mean, they were saying, George Washington said,

00:53:34.560 you know, they're treating us like slaves. They're treating us in the same way that we treat the

00:53:38.680 Negroes over which we have arbitrary sway. So they know they're using the language of slavery 0.94

00:53:44.960 And they're going, you know, wait a second. And you have find the British going, how is it that this driver of Negroes, George Washington, is having success against us? I mean, not that they're opposed to slavery. They're for it. But every once in a while, they'll offer freedom to those enslaved people of rebels. 0.97

00:54:02.980 as as a scholar pointed out in the film not sure how you tell if you're had a if you're an enslaved

00:54:09.200 person of a of a loyalist and you hear there's freedom promised i would say oh yeah my master's

00:54:15.600 a this and you know and and so people would just we think of it as big ideas and they are they're

00:54:22.000 really important and they're and we're going to sponsor revolutions for the next 200 plus years

00:54:26.920 when ho chi minh declares vietnamese independence in 1945 he's quoting thomas jefferson but the

00:54:32.880 decisions that people make are incredibly local. Where is the daylight that I can get to? For me,

00:54:40.820 not only me, but my children and my children's children's children. Like that's the important

00:54:45.960 thing. If you're enslaved, this is the last thing anybody on earth wants to be. And you're going to

00:54:52.940 make the decision which you think is the best. Sometimes that's going to the British. There's 0.99

00:54:56.980 painful, painful moments in New York City, which doesn't evacuate. The British don't leave there. 1.00

00:55:02.880 until two years and a month after Yorktown.

00:55:06.160 And what they're doing in those last months

00:55:07.880 is they're adjudicating which of the black people

00:55:10.600 that have been with the British

00:55:13.020 get to go and who have to stay. 1.00

00:55:15.300 So a mother gets to go 1.00

00:55:16.580 because she can prove employment 0.99

00:55:17.780 with an officer or a loyalist,

00:55:20.340 but the daughter can't.

00:55:21.840 It's the reverse of the birthright citizenship, right? 0.62

00:55:26.560 So the daughter goes back to Virginia and is enslaved 0.71

00:55:29.680 and the mother goes to Nova Scotia going, 0.88

00:55:31.680 what happened and there's two lists they're called lists of negroes and every week or so they meet

00:55:38.480 at fonce's tavern in lower manhattan still there table still there and four brits and three 0.60

00:55:44.060 americans determine who gets to go and who doesn't get to go and they're horse trading with human

00:55:49.720 lives in a country that had just proclaimed to the world less than 10 years before 0.66

00:55:54.460 Listen, and you're there for heart-wrenching knockouts and breathtaking triumph.

00:56:07.980 2026 FIFA World Cup, the knockout stage, every match, every moment.

00:56:13.920 Listen on TSN radio, join the globe on the road to the July 19th final,

00:56:18.960 2026 FIFA World Cup.

00:56:21.160 Stream it all live on TSN radio.

00:56:23.800 Available on iHeartRadio.

00:56:26.420 Hey everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers.

00:56:28.400 If you haven't heard, our new podcast is called Hey Jonas.

00:56:31.000 And this week we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of.

00:56:34.800 Millie Bobby Brown.

00:56:36.180 That's right.

00:56:36.820 Eleven herself.

00:56:38.100 We talk about her new movie, Enola Holmes 3, Family Life,

00:56:40.760 and all the amazing things she has going on right now.

00:56:42.980 This blew my mind when I saw this, Millie Bobby Brown. 0.98

00:56:45.800 You have over 60 animals.

00:56:47.680 First of all, how do you even keep track of everybody?

00:56:49.780 And second, do you have favorites?

00:56:51.540 Who are they and why?

00:56:52.820 Yeah, I need to know about this.

00:56:54.580 Okay.

00:56:55.400 I don't know where the number's 60.

00:56:57.040 I've really got to figure that out.

00:56:58.340 And I could actually have over 60.

00:57:00.460 I just need to really know that number.

00:57:02.420 There have been plenty of sheep in my bed.

00:57:06.400 It's a big bed.

00:57:07.800 In the bed.

00:57:08.400 Literally sleeping in the bed, yeah.

00:57:10.400 Plus, we find out what she really feels about Stranger Things ending.

00:57:13.240 Five seasons, almost 10 years of your life.

00:57:15.960 I could have never have guessed it. I started when I was 10 years old.

00:57:19.500 Our conversation with Millie Bobby Brown is out now.

00:57:21.540 Go check it out.

00:57:22.320 Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:57:26.900 Hey, I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

00:57:30.880 Okay, if you know me, you know this.

00:57:32.600 I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy.

00:57:38.920 So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together.

00:57:43.600 We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people.

00:57:49.420 Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming.

00:57:55.920 I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer and that was more difficult.

00:58:00.460 There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression.

00:58:02.780 I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety.

00:58:04.980 Olympic champ Shawn Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast.

00:58:09.720 There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me.

00:58:14.160 It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us.

00:58:18.280 We just have to find it.

00:58:19.640 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app,

00:58:23.380 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:58:29.860 My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin, Samira and Gracie.

00:58:36.680 I'm so excited.

00:58:37.840 On the bouncy bed.

00:58:38.740 you have surprises many surprises welcome to sweet 305 where the good chat comes to life

00:59:04.500 you're the only person i know that loves a yellow starburst

00:59:07.460 This is Sweet 305.

00:59:17.880 Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons

00:59:20.380 as part of My Cultura Podcast Network

00:59:22.440 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast,

00:59:24.960 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:59:26.960 That all human beings, all men are created equal.

00:59:31.000 Pretty good story.

00:59:32.560 So, so much.

00:59:33.200 I mean, I love your language about this notion

00:59:36.440 of a finished monument versus this notion of unfinished responsibility. And you keep coming

00:59:42.420 back, this notion of citizenship, active, not inert citizenship, that we have agency, we can

00:59:46.960 shape the future. We're not by standards. I think it was Brandeis who said, in a democracy, the most

00:59:51.940 important office is office of citizen. So this is what Washington knew, right? When he resigns,

00:59:58.560 I think he was tacitly saying, even when he resigned the military commission, I am a citizen.

01:00:04.620 And then at the presidency, I'm a citizen. Adams wanted him to take a kind of royal or princely title. He goes, no, president, it's okay for me. And so I'm sorry I interrupted you. But I think that's really at the heart of it, that this building block is not the top, it's the bottom, or the bottom is the top, the individual agency of each human being.

01:00:28.180 And the story of us has been the expansion of what was a very limited phrase, all men are created equal, all white men of property free of debt.

01:00:36.780 We don't mean that anymore. 0.60

01:00:38.560 And the more we grow and the more we expand it, the richer we become.

01:00:43.520 And that's the story of us.

01:00:46.540 No them involved, but of us.

01:00:49.300 The no kings rallies, the sense, I mean, I'm starting to feel more optimistic listening to you about.

01:00:57.660 Well, this moment, this sort of this energy, this percolation, this notion that the top is the bottom, this notion that we the foundational principles that have allowed us to endure and endure these moments.

01:01:10.680 And the fact that these moments are hardly unique in our history and the fact that we've been able to persevere.

01:01:16.540 I mean, are you are you feeling more or less optimistic in that context?

01:01:20.300 I know it's the rote question you get every interview.

01:01:23.400 So in the context of this moment in particular, and I mean, quite literally, perhaps this moment.

01:01:29.340 Yes, Governor, I believe in that. I do think that the three great crises that we could identify

01:01:36.100 after our founding, the Civil War, the Depression, and World War II, were the great crises. I think

01:01:42.480 we're in a fourth. I think the existential threats are unprecedented. In those first three crises,

01:01:48.700 There were free and fair elections. There was a peaceful transfer of power. There was an independence of the judiciary, all of which seems in play.

01:01:57.700 And yet I think part of the sort of arrogance of the present is you think that because you're alive that you must know more than those who came before us, that somehow because we've survived, our situation is so much more bad or worse or great.

01:02:17.660 And I think that we have to, Lincoln says it in that same address to Congress, he says, the dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. As our case is new, we must think anew, we must act anew, we must disenthrall ourselves, and then we can save our country.

01:02:38.380 that leads to the last best hope of earth it means that you've got to just sort of

01:02:44.460 say yes it's unprecedented but also have faith in the american people which is something that

01:02:50.720 autocrats don't have they can use them they can play groups off one another but they have

01:02:56.340 zero faith in in the actual um stuff of what it is to struggle to be human and to just

01:03:04.400 you know in economies and families get by you know with with opioid addictions with hard work

01:03:11.960 with illness unexpected illnesses all of the things not you know the the disparity of wages

01:03:18.080 i mean i made a film on baseball and in the 70s um you know it was the same thing with with

01:03:24.260 corporate ceos that you know the ceo of a company made at best like eight nine times what the line

01:03:32.120 guy made and now we're talking about 800 times as much and so we we the proportionality of things

01:03:39.000 and it permits you know we have great articulators of that um disparity and and we sort of think as

01:03:45.200 politics as a line it's a circle you know like a third of bernie's supporters uh voted for hillary

01:03:51.600 a third stayed home and a third voted for trump so you know that somewhere in this you have to just

01:03:58.260 be able to articulate that you understand what is the stuff of life. How do you get through? How do

01:04:04.820 you put food on the table for your families? How do you do that? But incumbent in an American

01:04:10.860 dynamic is that you have to exercise citizenship. It is no longer convenient to stay home or to say

01:04:18.220 it doesn't count because it does count and it does matter and you can't stay home. And it doesn't

01:04:24.700 mean you have to be involved you don't have to go to marches you don't have to do this but you can

01:04:29.340 vote you can be engaged in civics taken out of our curriculum it's been a dirty word for three or

01:04:36.000 four decades um they don't teach history anymore either they just want the automatons of stem to

01:04:43.280 just go forward there's something missing i remember an executive when i was working on my

01:04:47.720 first film on the brooklyn bridge executive at at&t very senior he was just lamenting he said

01:04:52.540 i just wish you would come to work for me i can teach you what i know i have all these newly

01:04:57.200 minted mbas but they can't write a letter they don't know about ethics they don't know about

01:05:02.340 history they don't know about comparative religion and so they're absent something and i can't teach

01:05:08.060 them that you have that and i can teach you whatever things and you don't want to do this

01:05:13.120 i said no i do not i want to go off and make documentary films and thank you very much for

01:05:17.960 introducing me to people who would help us do it. But it really stuck with me. It was a lament

01:05:23.600 that somehow in our rush for the bottom line, we've forgotten to serve the basic instincts of

01:05:30.780 a democracy, which is a mechanical question. How does it work? Who are we? What's the ingredients?

01:05:38.600 You know, people talk about Machiavelli, the prince says this Machiavellian is a pejorative

01:05:43.700 adjective, but it really is the study of how you get things done, how you get along with your

01:05:48.020 neighbors. How do you make something? How do you compromise? How do you say, okay, you want this?

01:05:52.720 I remember in my film about Thomas Jefferson 20 plus years ago, George Will said, democracy is

01:06:00.640 the politics of the half loaf. You don't get everything. Half loaf, half loaf. You don't get

01:06:06.380 everything, you know, be so suspicious of the 99 to one vote and be rejoice at the 51 to 49 vote.

01:06:14.480 You know, that's okay. That's okay. And what you're, you know, people argue, oh, we're just

01:06:19.780 trying to address this, you know, those two percentage points of independence or soccer moms

01:06:25.720 or whatever the new thing is. No, it's not about that. You're trying to engage everybody in this

01:06:30.680 process. And that's where I think you can have a sense of optimism. You can have a sense of

01:06:36.380 purpose. You can say, no, this doesn't sit white. I don't like it. Somebody celebrating the death 0.51

01:06:41.620 of somebody else that they didn't agree with or demonizing somebody else that they disagree with.

01:06:51.320 Disagreement is human, right? Even within ourselves. Whitman said, do I contradict myself?

01:06:57.640 i contradict myself and it's it's about as american a catechism as i know

01:07:02.320 so as we march forward ken to july 4th and you know here we are uh just a few months out i mean

01:07:10.780 what you know look if you could you can write the the next the chapters of the next few months what

01:07:16.500 i mean at our best what would you expect what do you expect of the states and what do you i mean

01:07:21.140 you obviously you've you've got the saccharine version as you describe it that you know is likely

01:07:25.760 to be portrayed top down. And, you know, we can anticipate, I mean, you know, everything died in

01:07:30.960 purple and, you know, pictures on the side of walls and, you know, arches and coins, that version.

01:07:37.380 But what, you know, what's, what's, give me, write that story. What should we be doing? What can I

01:07:43.800 be doing in the next few months? What should we be doing? In many of our religious traditions,

01:07:49.020 we have, there's a phrase, as above, so below. And you could say, if you want to translate to

01:07:54.820 something more rational, that there is a startling and profound similarity between the architecture

01:08:00.420 of an atom and the architecture of the solar system, right? So just hold that and say,

01:08:07.700 I need to be two things. I need to be individual. I read at the lake, on the porch,

01:08:16.040 the Declaration of Independence every single 4th of July, you know? And my poor kids and

01:08:22.360 Now, grandkids can't start eating hamburgers and hot dogs until granddaddy gets through with this reading.

01:08:28.780 And whatever you do that makes you happy, my favorite holiday, without a doubt, before this film, before any conversation, has always been the Fourth of July, followed by Thanksgiving, because of the way we come together.

01:08:42.540 So let's have what we always do, that individual thing, but then let's try to imagine it as a larger thing.

01:08:51.980 So if there's an atomic moment on that porch at the lake, what's the what's the solar system of this? And it has to be a kind of righteous reengagement with the principles of our founding. Let's go back and say, this is what we meant. And, you know, I had screenings of the film before it was done. We're working on it. We're trying to get better. And I go, geez, there's a lot of red meat for MAGA.

01:09:17.340 And then I went and said, great, great, you know, this is it.

01:09:22.320 You know, there's these over mountain men in the Carolinas that are, have defied the

01:09:26.920 British proclamation that you can't cross the Appalachians.

01:09:29.100 And they just said, F you, and went over there and started it.

01:09:32.140 And then when the British said, unless you do this, this, and this, we will come over

01:09:35.660 and make your lives unpleasant.

01:09:36.840 They go, oh yeah, we're coming over and making your life unpleasant.

01:09:40.360 So, you know, where you did not want to be in the revolution was New Jersey because it's

01:09:45.520 guerrilla warfare and it's patriots killing loyalists and loyalists killing patriots or

01:09:50.920 South Carolina particularly where it's just on just fettered slaughter but there's some battles

01:09:57.240 in which big battles Kings Mountain over the border in North Carolina in which there's only

01:10:03.800 one British officer he's leading the loyalists and everybody else is an American killing an

01:10:08.380 American and so I think we have to just disenthrall ourselves as Lincoln said of this obsession with 0.59

01:10:15.060 the other and understand how, if you want to get things done, you know, you're not making America

01:10:21.020 great again. You're making America great going forward. It's always been great. It has not been

01:10:27.380 diminished except by those moments when we have pretended that our future is in our past. Our

01:10:34.120 future is up ahead you know big headline stop you know documentary filmmaker says future is ahead of

01:10:46.300 us it's also inside of us decisions not conditions inside of us you gotta manifest it you have to

01:10:54.240 manifest it and i think that there's a way to do it at an individual level i mean obviously

01:10:58.520 our biggest responsibility is how we raise our kids and who we are to our neighbors you know

01:11:03.820 the content of our character, Dr. King would say, but then there's a kind of civic

01:11:11.920 responsibility that we have that says, however small the orbit of the solar system is,

01:11:18.440 we have to be engaged in something bigger than ourselves.

01:11:22.680 I love that. And Ken, before we leave, I'd be remiss. An adjacent topic, though connected to

01:11:30.280 all things ken burns and the ken burns effect today is the 50th anniversary of the founding of

01:11:37.160 apple um and uh and i know you've you've talked in the past and just you know just very briefly

01:11:43.640 i'm curious just sort of reflecting on you know you've said some very um very generous things

01:11:49.000 about steve jobs though uh you weren't generous enough to to give in to his request that you

01:11:54.040 commercialize or support well you know it was it was the opposite thing he called me up in in in

01:11:59.880 november of 2002 and said will you come and see me first of all i didn't believe it was steve job so

01:12:05.160 i went out there and i met him and and he led me into this room with a couple of engineers and he

01:12:10.360 showed me this thing i'm still a luddite and it was how you could download your photographs or

01:12:14.520 upload your photographs and and pan and zoom kind of like that and i said oh great he said

01:12:19.400 And next month, January of 2003, all Mac computers will have this on it.

01:12:24.740 And I said, wow, that's great.

01:12:26.480 Basically going, I have no idea really what he's talking about.

01:12:29.660 And he says, and so we'd like to keep the working title.

01:12:32.500 And I said, oh, okay, what's that?

01:12:33.720 And he goes, the Ken Burns effect.

01:12:35.180 And I go, I don't do commercial endorsements.

01:12:37.900 And he goes, what?

01:12:39.380 Go back to his office.

01:12:40.520 We spent about an hour in which we became friends.

01:12:43.160 And whenever I was in Silicon Valley, I would stay at his house and sleep in his guest bedroom.

01:12:48.340 And we eventually took his famous daughter, Lisa, as an intern and got to know his wife and his smaller kids.

01:12:55.200 And, you know, it was wonderful.

01:12:58.140 Endlessly walking to dinner, even when he was sick, into Palo Alto from his home.

01:13:05.040 But I walked out of the room an hour later, not just with that friendship, but with a commitment that Apple continued to honor of giving software and hardware to nonprofits.

01:13:15.040 um which was the only way i could sort of handle it and he just couldn't conceive of it and it's

01:13:21.080 so funny that when i tell this story people said oh you should have asked him for like

01:13:24.540 you know a tenth of a penny every time we use i said you don't know steve jobs he would have said

01:13:29.620 um uh we'll call it the pan and zoom effect goodbye right and i but but what he respected

01:13:36.780 was somebody who was just outside him saying at one point he came to me and he says he calls me

01:13:43.120 up. And he goes, you don't, you're not, you're not doing this right. You're, you're being taken

01:13:46.880 advantage of. And he said, I want your lawyer to talk to my lawyer about your, your PBS deals.

01:13:52.260 Cause I'm in PBS and, and they're outside the marketplace. Right. And, and then he came back,

01:13:58.220 he said, Oh, it looks like you're doing like, you've got the right thing. And I said, look,

01:14:01.660 all I want is to be independent. I want to be able to talk to you or the governor of California and

01:14:06.840 say, all of these films are director's cuts. There's not a layer of suits above me that are

01:14:12.000 saying longer, shorter, sexier, less sexier, you're more violent, less violent. But that

01:14:16.900 another way, let me just put it this way. If you don't like any of those films,

01:14:21.660 it's all my fault. And that's what I want it to be. You know, I love it. Hey, Ken, just,

01:14:27.660 just very briefly, just previewing you, you mentioned a couple of the films you're working

01:14:31.380 on. I mean, I think there's an LBJ film as well. I mean, yeah, we, yeah, we're, we're doing LBJ

01:14:35.520 and the great society. You know, we'd done the Vietnam thing and LBJ is like Nixon, one of these

01:14:39.660 great tragic figures but his domestic agenda he was trying to be the next coming of fdr in fact

01:14:45.920 he chooses the initials because the first person who ever had initials in a big way to the population

01:14:52.120 was fdr and so here's lbj and that that was um an interesting thing and i i it's we take care of his

01:15:00.800 domestic agenda in one sentence in an 18-hour film 10 episodes in vietnam so we wanted to reverse

01:15:06.540 engineer it, to pull the sweater inside out and be inside the White House, watch the guns

01:15:11.140 of Vietnam get louder and louder, but see this extraordinary domestic achievement.

01:15:16.700 He's able to pass a civil rights bill that John F. Kennedy, who's very late to civil

01:15:20.740 rights, probably couldn't get passed, and a voting rights.

01:15:23.820 And he knew as a Southerner what the cost would be.

01:15:26.380 And I think to be able to shed from waking up on election day and knowing you had every

01:15:33.720 former state of the Confederacy on your pocket is not necessarily the best thing you want to be in

01:15:39.020 because you're dealing with people who are continued to perpetuate the lost cause. And then

01:15:45.200 he does all this other stuff, Medicare and Medicaid, public broadcasting, all these things

01:15:49.420 that are sort of under his belt, but it's an amazing story. So we're just doing that. We're

01:15:53.080 also doing a history of reconstruction called Emancipation to Exodus. I've had the privilege

01:15:57.300 of interviewing Barack Obama eight times, eight two hour, hour and a half, two hour interviews.

01:16:03.440 No rush. We want to wait until there's scholarship and whatever. And we also are saving a couple of

01:16:09.900 interviews to sort of think about what happened after his presidency. And until the dust

01:16:14.400 settles a bit, it's going to be hard to talk about it. We've also been filming people who

01:16:18.940 knew Dr. King in the service of a big biography on King. So those are very much active. And we've

01:16:24.360 just begun work on a big history. We originally thought for years we'd do something on the Cold

01:16:29.280 War. And I just switched it about a year ago or six months ago in my mind to doing a history of

01:16:34.840 the CIA. And just think about it. You'll get the Cold War, but you'll get all the intimacies of

01:16:42.880 the stories. And you'll be in every president's Oval Office. And you'll be in exotic places all

01:16:50.100 around the world with people who are putting their life on their lines and big mistakes,

01:16:55.720 huge mistakes and heroic unsung successes. And, you know, that's the essence of a good story,

01:17:03.340 right? And an essence of a hell of a life, Ken, look at you. I mean, decades of, I mean,

01:17:10.340 so you are hardly slowing down. No, no, no. So I'm 72 and I'm like an idiot. I've got more on

01:17:16.880 my plate that I've ever had, because, you know, if I were given a thousand years to live, which I

01:17:21.300 will not be given, I would not run out of topics in American history. So there's this kind of sense

01:17:26.900 of urgency of like having to get it done. There's so many great stories still to be told.

01:17:34.080 Well, thank you for being such a great storyteller. Thank you for reminding me. It's not just

01:17:38.040 arguments that win the day. It is storytelling. It can move people.

01:17:42.640 Well, you know, it's a benign Trojan horse. You let the story in, and it doesn't come out in the middle of the night and slay the populace and burn the city down. It comes out and it has the possibility of offering people, not the binary, that doesn't exist in the real world, only in computers, a one and a zero, and only in a media thing, red state or blue state, right?

01:18:04.720 so if you've got a complicated story then you have to begin to understand like oh i have these two

01:18:12.940 and i can't be i can't be convinced that it's only black or white from what the tv tells me it's one

01:18:20.460 it's not one thing or the other i have inside me these contradictions these these flaws and

01:18:25.780 these weaknesses then it makes me a better citizen makes me a better parent makes me a better

01:18:29.860 husband or wife. It makes me a better politician. It makes me a better American. And that's all we

01:18:35.620 want. I love it. Ken, thanks for joining us. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

01:18:46.760 Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now there's a new and exciting way to start your

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01:19:05.040 and moving on-air chats. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101, and listen now.

01:19:12.540 Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS. Hey everybody, it's the Jonas Brothers. This week,

01:19:19.020 we're so excited to be hanging out with Mika Abdallah

01:19:21.300 from the hit show, Off Campus.

01:19:23.000 We talk about what it's been like watching the show

01:19:24.780 become such a massive hit,

01:19:26.560 what's next for season two,

01:19:27.900 and just how close the Off Campus cast really is.

01:19:30.300 What's the group chat called?

01:19:31.600 One of them is Off Campus Brazil.

01:19:33.580 Okay.

01:19:34.000 The boys have their own group chat called Dean's ****.

01:19:38.300 Our conversation with Mika Abdallah is out now.

01:19:41.040 Go check it out.

01:19:41.960 Listen to Hey Jonas in the iHeartRadio app,

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01:19:47.020 I'm Jake Brennan.

01:19:48.080 And on the Disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history.

01:19:56.800 These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else.

01:20:02.000 Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison, or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga has accused of, or that time Blondie's Debbie Harry escaped Ted Bundy.

01:20:12.920 Listen to Disgraceland on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:20:20.340 My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke, and Yerin.

01:20:25.360 We have surprises.

01:20:26.720 Many surprises.

01:20:28.320 Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast where the group chat comes to life.

01:20:32.040 What up?

01:20:32.860 You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst.

01:20:36.220 It's lemonade.

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This is Gavin Newsom - July 03, 2026

And, This Is How To Celebrate America 250 With Ken Burns

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