This is Gavin Newsom - And, This Is How Trump Loses His Base with Tim Miller of The Bulwark

00:00:00.560 Does it scare you that it's over?

00:00:02.320 Governor's race ends and-

00:00:03.840 Yeah, I got a sell by day.

00:00:05.000 I'm a milk carton man.

00:00:06.480 My whole childhood is my side.

00:00:07.720 The Republicans were the suits, right?

00:00:09.360 We flipped.

00:00:10.200 Now the Democrats are the suits. 0.95

00:00:11.320 They're the scolds and the establishment. 1.00

00:00:13.160 Why are we bombing boats in the Caribbean?

00:00:15.240 Why are we bulldozing the East Wing?

00:00:17.400 Why do you care so much about your peace pride?

00:00:19.240 They had three trips overseas and no trips to red America. 0.66

00:00:22.440 Trump is for once making a normal politician mistake.

00:00:27.160 Hey Tim, thank you so much for taking the time.

00:00:29.800 By the way, and I know it's taking the time

00:00:31.800 because as seen on TV, Tim Miller.

00:00:34.960 This is an iHeart Podcast, guaranteed human.

00:00:39.560 Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here.

00:00:41.200 I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA.

00:00:43.240 And I want to tell you about my new podcast

00:00:45.040 called The Mail Room.

00:00:46.120 And I'm Jordan, the show's producer.

00:00:47.880 And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor

00:00:50.080 in way too long.

00:00:51.320 I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking,

00:00:53.800 but aren't.

00:00:54.720 Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health 1.00

00:00:57.120 from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility.

00:00:59.760 We'll talk science without the jargon

00:01:01.440 and get your real answers to the stuff

00:01:03.080 you actually wonder about.

00:01:04.320 So check out The Mail Room on the iHeartRadio app,

00:01:06.720 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

00:01:11.400 What up, y'all?

00:01:12.360 It's your boy, Kev On Stage.

00:01:13.780 I want to tell you about my new podcast

00:01:15.440 called Not My Best Moment,

00:01:17.260 where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers,

00:01:19.820 creators, friends, people I admire

00:01:22.280 who've had massive success about their massive failures.

00:01:26.000 What did they mess up on?

00:01:27.320 What is their heartbreak?

00:01:28.300 And what did they learn from it?

00:01:29.780 I got judged horribly. 1.00

00:01:32.060 The judges were like, you're trash. 1.00

00:01:33.940 I don't know how you got on the show. 0.99

00:01:35.560 Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kev On Stage,

00:01:38.340 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube,

00:01:41.180 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:42.160 Hey, everybody, it's Chuck and Josh

00:01:45.400 from the Stuff You Should Know Podcast,

00:01:46.980 and it's that time of year again

00:01:48.260 when we knuckle down to do our annual holiday episodes.

00:01:51.220 We collected our best past classic holiday episodes

00:01:54.060 and compiled them into a 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist

00:01:57.500 that the whole family can enjoy.

00:01:59.640 That's right.

00:02:00.080 Maybe you missed it the first time

00:02:01.160 we detailed the history of Beanie Babies,

00:02:03.180 Monopoly, or Yo-Yos, and a whole lot more.

00:02:05.640 So listen to the 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist

00:02:08.360 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:02:10.800 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:02:13.240 I know he has a reputation,

00:02:14.760 but it's going to catch up to him.

00:02:16.300 Gabe Ortiz is a cop.

00:02:17.840 His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve

00:02:20.660 until it was too late.

00:02:22.360 He was the head of this gang.

00:02:24.780 You're going to push that line for the cause.

00:02:26.300 Took us under his wing and showed us the game,

00:02:29.760 as they call it.

00:02:31.280 When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle a dangerous past,

00:02:34.500 one that could destroy everything he thought he knew.

00:02:37.160 Listen to the Brothers Ortiz

00:02:38.360 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:02:40.740 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:02:44.140 From NBA champion Stephen Curry comes Shot Ready,

00:02:47.780 a powerful, never-before-seen look

00:02:49.460 at the mindset that changed the game.

00:02:51.620 I fell in love with the grind.

00:02:53.580 You have to find joy in the work you do

00:02:55.820 when no one else is around.

00:02:58.480 Success is not an accident.

00:03:00.340 I'm passing the ball to you.

00:03:02.420 Let's go.

00:03:03.200 Steph Curry redefined basketball.

00:03:05.020 Now he's rewriting what it means to succeed.

00:03:07.220 Order your copy of the New York Times bestseller,

00:03:09.640 Shot Ready, today at stephencurrybook.com.

00:03:13.060 Every time I turn on cable.

00:03:15.160 How many hits a day do you do with MS? 0.98

00:03:17.280 How many hits?

00:03:18.000 I'm doing more at Bluwork YouTube hits than MS, too.

00:03:20.920 I'm just grinding.

00:03:21.920 It is a content grind, all right?

00:03:23.780 I'm down here in the content mines.

00:03:25.900 I'm just shoveling away.

00:03:28.600 Okay?

00:03:29.000 Now, it's not, you know, there's harder jobs.

00:03:31.580 You know, I'm not cleaning toilets or shoveling coal,

00:03:33.720 but it's, you know, it's a grind.

00:03:36.420 So, what is it?

00:03:36.920 I mean, seriously, in terms of just content now,

00:03:38.960 in order to stay relevant and sort of stay in,

00:03:41.920 you know, just the stream of consciousness,

00:03:43.720 I mean, give us a sense of your day.

00:03:45.260 What's your, you wake up?

00:03:46.720 What's your morning routine?

00:03:47.740 How does it start?

00:03:48.940 Yeah.

00:03:49.280 Well, part of the reason why you see me a lot

00:03:50.740 is you're on Pacific Time.

00:03:51.860 I don't do any morning MS, MS Now.

00:03:54.820 We're calling it MS Now now

00:03:55.780 because I take the daily Bullard Pod every day

00:03:58.460 at 9 Central.

00:03:59.460 And so, luckily, my husband's taking my daughter

00:04:02.680 to school most days.

00:04:03.740 He's gone this week.

00:04:04.720 So, I got to, I got to, I'm like reading Twitter,

00:04:07.440 reading X and driving, doing unsafe driving

00:04:10.740 to school this week.

00:04:12.260 But, you know, usually like 7 to 9,

00:04:14.780 I'm just seeing everything that's out there,

00:04:16.780 reading, consuming, tape the pod at 9 every day.

00:04:20.760 And then it's like off to the races, man.

00:04:23.000 I'm like just either consuming other people's stuff

00:04:26.300 or taping stuff until the evening.

00:04:28.820 I do a little parenting after that, you know,

00:04:31.140 this little child time.

00:04:32.460 And after dinner, she goes to bed

00:04:34.500 and then I sit in front of the TV.

00:04:36.640 My husband usually does a weed gummy

00:04:38.920 and puts on something he likes

00:04:40.880 or if basketball's on, I'll put on basketball.

00:04:43.580 And then I'm just like multitasking, double screening,

00:04:46.380 a little TV, mostly preparing for the next day.

00:04:50.360 What's your, when you prepare for the morning,

00:04:52.400 the morning of, what are you reading?

00:04:54.580 Are you reading The Economist

00:04:56.120 or is it just Wall Street Journal blogs?

00:04:57.940 What do you, what's your morning read?

00:05:01.320 Yeah, that's a good question.

00:05:02.380 I mean, I do, I do all the newsletters

00:05:04.320 just to see what everybody's doing.

00:05:05.640 You're about to hear me being a former Republican right now.

00:05:08.360 You know who's good at still,

00:05:10.620 even at this day and age, is Drudge.

00:05:13.000 Drudge tells you what is out there.

00:05:14.680 And I like, and it's just a good way for me to like,

00:05:17.420 because then I'm reading all the different outlets 0.99

00:05:19.100 because he's already curated that shit for me. 0.99

00:05:21.800 So shout out to Drudge. 0.99

00:05:22.800 But, you know, I read the Politico Axios morning newsletters,

00:05:24.880 all the other ones that people do.

00:05:26.940 Ours, the Bulwark's morning newsletter is good.

00:05:29.940 And, you know, I'm also like trying to listen

00:05:34.420 to like what other like newsmakers were doing, you know?

00:05:37.880 Like if you were doing somebody else's show,

00:05:39.600 like I got to listen to that,

00:05:40.660 you're showing 2X speed, you know?

00:05:41.940 So you're a chipmunk voice to try to like hear 1.00

00:05:43.840 what you guys are talking about,

00:05:45.880 like what the other big podcast interviews were

00:05:47.860 from the day before.

00:05:48.700 I want to hear what other people are talking about.

00:05:50.160 Whatever my guest has done recently,

00:05:51.720 I'm listening to what they're doing.

00:05:53.880 So, and then I'm also like MAGA,

00:05:55.880 like I'm deep in the MAGAverse.

00:05:57.380 I kind of switch back and forth.

00:05:58.920 Right now I'm on to Bannon.

00:06:00.120 I do Bannon, Tim Dillon's podcast.

00:06:03.820 Candace is kind of my little treat 0.95

00:06:05.520 because I just want to hear, you know,

00:06:07.240 which French Israeli assassins

00:06:09.460 are coming together this week.

00:06:11.920 Who else do I do?

00:06:13.020 Sometimes Patrick, Beth, David.

00:06:14.400 You got to know what the MAGA freaks

00:06:15.660 are talking about too.

00:06:17.220 No, I love that.

00:06:18.100 And what about, are you a Fox?

00:06:19.340 I mean, at nighttime when your husband's on that gummy

00:06:21.860 and you, and there's no Denver nugget game.

00:06:25.020 I mean, you flipping over to, to, to Greg.

00:06:27.100 You know, I don't, I don't subject my family

00:06:31.400 to this stuff, like just for their mental health

00:06:35.140 and for the sake of everybody.

00:06:36.380 It's like, I don't watch a ton of cable

00:06:37.800 because, you know, that's on the TV.

00:06:41.020 It's like, usually it's stuff that's in my ear.

00:06:42.800 So I'm like, that's why I'm more podcast focused.

00:06:44.720 Like I will, you know, there's Fox clips

00:06:47.300 going around on social.

00:06:48.280 So I'll watch those.

00:06:49.140 I'm a Fox guy on the plane.

00:06:50.880 So people sitting next to me on the plane,

00:06:52.180 if they don't recognize me,

00:06:53.120 they might think I'm a MAGA

00:06:54.080 because that's, planes and hotels

00:06:55.840 is when I get my Fox.

00:06:56.900 I can kind of binge that way,

00:06:58.960 see what those guys are talking about.

00:07:00.880 And that's about my only, my only Fox exposure.

00:07:04.720 What's a, I'm curious,

00:07:05.860 just in terms of the bulwark itself.

00:07:07.920 I mean, imagine when, how long ago

00:07:09.760 did you guys start the bulwark?

00:07:11.860 How old is it now?

00:07:12.720 Yeah.

00:07:12.980 It started as like a,

00:07:14.700 I literally a side hustle back about God,

00:07:19.060 six years ago now coming up on the 20 in 2019,

00:07:22.560 basically a year before the 2020 election.

00:07:25.060 And the weekly standard is that old kind of

00:07:27.200 neocon magazine got shut down.

00:07:29.620 The owner, Phil Anschutz was not happy

00:07:31.920 that Bill Kristol and Charlie Sykes

00:07:33.700 and some others were speaking out against Trump,

00:07:36.920 you know,

00:07:37.360 and they wanted to get in good graces of Trump.

00:07:40.000 And so they shut down the magazine.

00:07:41.980 And my colleague now, Sarah Longwell,

00:07:44.260 was trying to start something new

00:07:46.280 and it wasn't really getting off the ground.

00:07:48.160 And then when the weekly standards shut down,

00:07:50.120 she grabbed a couple of those guys 0.88

00:07:51.700 and asked them to help her start something.

00:07:53.980 And then me and her world friend,

00:07:55.300 she asked me if I could,

00:07:56.340 I could also help out a couple of months later.

00:07:59.140 And so it started then.

00:08:00.640 And I think that all of us kind of thought

00:08:02.300 it was a thing that we do to the 2020 election.

00:08:04.480 It was just something like,

00:08:05.660 hey, we want to have a home for never Trumpers,

00:08:08.400 you know, somewhere where they could gather,

00:08:10.200 do news and commentary.

00:08:11.620 Maybe we could have a platform to,

00:08:13.520 from our perspective,

00:08:14.240 explain why people should move away from Trump.

00:08:20.480 And this was so during the Biden-Trump first election.

00:08:24.180 And it just like took off by accident.

00:08:27.120 And this is going to feel like a humble brag,

00:08:28.480 but like we weren't even really trying

00:08:30.140 to create a media company,

00:08:31.280 but it just really connected with people.

00:08:33.260 I think it was when you hear from people,

00:08:35.060 it's mostly that like,

00:08:37.220 they just felt like we weren't bullshitting them.

00:08:39.000 You know, we aren't, we weren't,

00:08:40.860 we're not like a typical political pundit.

00:08:43.120 I'm not trying to look for my next job,

00:08:44.840 you know, all that kind of stuff.

00:08:45.800 The fact that we were former Republicans

00:08:47.040 and we were kind of without a home,

00:08:48.980 gave us like a freedom

00:08:49.860 that allowed us to be a little bit more blunt,

00:08:52.300 I think, than what you see

00:08:54.200 from other stuff out there.

00:08:55.980 And the audience led us basically.

00:08:58.540 It like took off

00:08:59.480 and it went from being a side hustle

00:09:01.700 to a real company,

00:09:03.400 you know, a couple of years in.

00:09:05.160 And we, you know, kind of flipped the switch

00:09:07.000 from it being like a nonprofit thing

00:09:09.700 that we were doing

00:09:10.420 because we wanted to speak out against Trump

00:09:12.560 to like an actual media effort.

00:09:14.920 And when you were there,

00:09:15.620 were you sort of wearing a couple of hats?

00:09:17.640 Were you still doing consulting?

00:09:18.840 Were you still doing all the usual work?

00:09:21.460 Yeah.

00:09:21.840 Initially I was still doing consulting.

00:09:23.640 I was doing still MS, but less.

00:09:26.100 I was like a guest person on the circus.

00:09:27.640 So I was doing some media stuff,

00:09:28.980 but I had some PR clients

00:09:30.220 and then I had some political clients.

00:09:32.060 Like I said, it wasn't like a tradition.

00:09:33.940 I didn't really see myself as a media person

00:09:36.000 or a journalist at the time.

00:09:37.600 I, you know, in 2020,

00:09:39.000 in addition to doing the bulwark,

00:09:40.060 I was doing Republican voters against Trump,

00:09:41.860 which was like a full-time job.

00:09:43.740 I was like, it was a political,

00:09:45.020 I was a political director of that.

00:09:46.360 And we did a bunch of,

00:09:47.640 that was more of a grassroots effort

00:09:48.900 to get videos from people

00:09:50.140 who used to be Republicans

00:09:51.060 to explain why they weren't voting

00:09:52.500 for Trump in 2020.

00:09:54.060 And so, you know,

00:09:55.380 it was basically after that election,

00:09:57.700 I can't remember the exact timeline,

00:09:59.260 but a little while when we realized

00:10:00.840 it was resonating with people

00:10:02.660 that I just said, no, okay, I'm done.

00:10:05.620 So I got rid of all my PR stuff,

00:10:08.000 stopped doing all, you know,

00:10:09.060 and just, you know,

00:10:09.860 I got some good advice from a mentor

00:10:11.340 who was just like, you can't do both well.

00:10:13.040 Like you got to pick a route.

00:10:14.760 And so, you know, I kind of myself

00:10:17.720 and others of the bulwarks sort of decided,

00:10:19.840 okay, we're going to lean into this.

00:10:21.840 And I couldn't be happier, man.

00:10:23.920 I got to tell you,

00:10:24.300 every time a PR flack sends me a pitch,

00:10:27.120 like I want you to get my boss 0.98

00:10:28.440 on your podcast,

00:10:29.840 I feel bad.

00:10:30.640 I just, it just warms my soul.

00:10:32.300 I'm like, this could have been me.

00:10:33.760 There's an alternate timeline

00:10:34.960 where I'm begging,

00:10:36.860 you know, I'm begging Gavin Newsom.

00:10:38.440 I'm like, hey,

00:10:39.080 will you have my client,

00:10:40.200 the CEO is trying to do thought leadership.

00:10:42.740 Will you have him

00:10:43.180 on the Gavin Newsom show?

00:10:44.960 You know, and so I'm happy

00:10:46.400 about that life switch.

00:10:47.380 It's been good to me.

00:10:48.100 You know, what was in,

00:10:49.420 but when,

00:10:50.020 when did that switch happen with you?

00:10:51.380 I mean, obviously you grew up

00:10:52.440 and I don't,

00:10:53.680 I don't know if some of the origin stories

00:10:55.080 are true that you literally got goosebumps

00:10:56.940 watching a Bob Dole speech.

00:11:00.240 That's true.

00:11:01.100 By the way, this,

00:11:01.820 of course you probably said it

00:11:03.920 because no one has ever uttered those words

00:11:06.040 in history.

00:11:07.860 So it's likely.

00:11:08.520 That's true.

00:11:09.080 Good oppo.

00:11:10.100 One of the other things

00:11:10.900 in my origin story

00:11:11.660 is I started a Republican oppo research firm

00:11:14.200 and that's the dark part

00:11:15.140 of the origin story.

00:11:15.920 So we don't need to go through

00:11:16.720 that whole timeline,

00:11:17.500 but that's good oppo on me.

00:11:18.920 I know it when I see it.

00:11:20.340 It was true, man.

00:11:21.440 I,

00:11:21.720 I look,

00:11:22.900 I told that story,

00:11:24.380 I think in part because

00:11:25.520 I think that everybody that get,

00:11:28.180 you know,

00:11:28.620 there's a reason that I think people

00:11:30.180 are cynical about politics

00:11:31.920 is because a lot of people

00:11:32.680 in politics are cynical,

00:11:33.920 you know,

00:11:34.420 and they become cynical over time.

00:11:36.840 But pretty much everybody

00:11:38.260 that gets into politics

00:11:39.100 got into it

00:11:39.980 because at the start

00:11:41.060 there was like a little ember

00:11:42.240 of something that was real.

00:11:43.500 And like I,

00:11:44.540 it was a little bit for Bob Dole for me.

00:11:46.000 I mean, I'm a little cheeky,

00:11:46.840 but I did get,

00:11:47.520 I did get goosebumps

00:11:48.540 watching Bob Dole.

00:11:49.340 I do remember that.

00:11:50.320 And,

00:11:50.780 but you know,

00:11:51.940 I,

00:11:52.500 I believed in like the,

00:11:55.020 America is a shining city

00:11:56.140 on the hill.

00:11:57.220 We,

00:11:58.040 free markets

00:11:59.280 and free people

00:12:00.160 and,

00:12:00.920 you know,

00:12:01.180 back to back World War II champs,

00:12:02.980 World War champs

00:12:04.020 and all that.

00:12:04.620 Like,

00:12:04.860 I believe that.

00:12:05.780 Like as a young Republican,

00:12:07.220 like I was into that part

00:12:08.980 of that America is great

00:12:10.760 and that we should try

00:12:12.260 to live up to the ideals

00:12:14.260 that the country has espoused

00:12:15.860 and Bob Dole did that

00:12:17.060 in his speech

00:12:17.540 and so did all the Republicans

00:12:19.180 in their convention speeches

00:12:20.480 that I watched as a kid

00:12:21.860 and then growing up.

00:12:23.080 And I think that to me

00:12:23.760 was the thing about Trump

00:12:25.080 was like it brought back

00:12:26.300 a little bit of my earnestness

00:12:27.620 because,

00:12:28.340 you know,

00:12:29.140 you get into politics,

00:12:30.080 you start working for candidates,

00:12:31.420 you start spinning

00:12:32.060 on behalf of them, 0.97

00:12:32.880 you start bullshitting 0.98

00:12:33.600 on behalf of them, 0.93

00:12:34.520 you care more about winning,

00:12:35.620 you know,

00:12:35.980 losing the game of it

00:12:37.100 than you care about

00:12:37.900 why you got into it.

00:12:39.040 I think this happens

00:12:39.440 to a lot of people.

00:12:40.940 And Trump got in there

00:12:41.900 and I was like,

00:12:42.280 wait a minute,

00:12:43.240 all the things,

00:12:44.220 all the reasons that got,

00:12:45.520 that I was earnest

00:12:46.400 about this at the start,

00:12:47.700 he's not for any of those things. 0.99

00:12:49.120 He's shitting on all 0.99

00:12:50.000 of those things, 1.00

00:12:50.720 you know?

00:12:51.260 And I think that

00:12:52.340 in some way that was,

00:12:53.900 I hate to like give Trump

00:12:54.740 credit for anything,

00:12:55.440 but like that was like

00:12:55.900 a gift to me

00:12:56.660 to like kind of get me,

00:12:58.440 I think back focused

00:12:59.980 on the things

00:13:00.440 that I actually

00:13:01.120 like genuinely cared about

00:13:03.040 rather than in like 1.00

00:13:03.820 the stupid politics of politics. 1.00

00:13:06.660 And your politics 1.00

00:13:07.300 were aligned

00:13:08.220 in that spirit

00:13:09.320 and sort of a

00:13:09.800 compassionate conservatism

00:13:11.200 rallying the armies

00:13:12.240 of compassion,

00:13:13.340 making the toll booth

00:13:14.240 down to the middle class

00:13:15.140 sort of Bush-isms.

00:13:16.500 But with Jeb Bush

00:13:17.580 formerly,

00:13:18.660 with Huntsman

00:13:19.760 and some gubernatorial campaigns,

00:13:22.460 Nikki Haley

00:13:22.980 and others.

00:13:24.660 I mean,

00:13:25.180 so,

00:13:25.500 you know,

00:13:26.060 was it,

00:13:26.520 I mean,

00:13:26.720 was it the escalator

00:13:27.740 in Trump

00:13:29.060 or did it come

00:13:29.900 after the escalator

00:13:30.900 in 2015

00:13:31.520 in Trump

00:13:32.120 where you started

00:13:33.060 listening to this

00:13:33.840 or was it

00:13:34.300 those debates

00:13:35.480 with Jeb

00:13:36.060 and were you like, 0.70

00:13:37.060 who the hell

00:13:37.480 is this wrecking ball?

00:13:38.400 Who's this T-Rex?

00:13:39.520 God,

00:13:39.840 I wanted to get up there

00:13:40.760 and debate them,

00:13:42.440 you know.

00:13:43.520 No,

00:13:44.040 honestly,

00:13:44.620 man,

00:13:45.380 this is why

00:13:46.160 like sometimes

00:13:46.820 Democrats

00:13:47.520 or liberals

00:13:48.320 or whatever

00:13:48.760 will come up to me

00:13:49.680 and be like,

00:13:50.160 thank you

00:13:50.660 for doing this,

00:13:51.480 for your courage

00:13:52.140 and standing out.

00:13:52.980 Like,

00:13:53.560 it wasn't that for me.

00:13:55.800 It just wasn't

00:13:56.520 a close call.

00:13:57.500 Like,

00:13:57.600 I didn't like Trump

00:13:58.440 from the second,

00:13:59.240 I didn't like it back in 2012.

00:14:00.200 You mentioned

00:14:00.460 the Huntsman campaign.

00:14:01.720 Remember in 2012,

00:14:03.100 Romney went to Vegas

00:14:04.100 to get Trump's endorsement.

00:14:06.000 I'm with Huntsman

00:14:06.800 at the time.

00:14:07.260 I ended up being

00:14:07.580 with Romney in the general.

00:14:09.000 But I'm with Huntsman

00:14:09.700 in the primary

00:14:10.360 and we're mocking him.

00:14:11.860 We mocked him

00:14:12.460 both internally

00:14:13.180 and publicly.

00:14:13.840 Huntsman did publicly.

00:14:14.460 I was like,

00:14:14.660 this is embarrassing.

00:14:15.760 Like,

00:14:15.900 why are you doing this?

00:14:16.780 Like, 0.85

00:14:16.920 this guy is a phony, 1.00

00:14:18.980 he's a racist, 1.00

00:14:19.780 and you know, 0.99

00:14:21.140 we shouldn't be coddling

00:14:22.840 up to him.

00:14:24.200 And so,

00:14:24.740 I didn't like him

00:14:25.400 way before the escalator.

00:14:27.260 And like,

00:14:27.940 and his whole campaign

00:14:29.760 to me

00:14:30.320 was just an affront

00:14:31.280 to everything

00:14:32.320 that I shared about.

00:14:34.260 I didn't,

00:14:35.880 here's a mission

00:14:36.840 against interest

00:14:37.560 because I'm supposed

00:14:38.060 to be like a political analyst.

00:14:39.420 I didn't believe

00:14:40.180 he could win

00:14:40.820 up until the minute

00:14:41.860 he did.

00:14:42.560 I just did it.

00:14:43.460 Like,

00:14:43.580 I even thought

00:14:44.040 in the primary,

00:14:45.380 I was like,

00:14:45.960 eventually,

00:14:46.480 when it gets down

00:14:47.300 to Trump against Cruz

00:14:48.240 or Trump against Rubio,

00:14:49.380 people will come

00:14:49.920 to their senses.

00:14:51.080 I just,

00:14:51.800 I misjudged him

00:14:52.720 totally as a political force

00:14:54.340 initially.

00:14:54.960 I mean,

00:14:55.180 no longer,

00:14:55.700 obviously,

00:14:56.200 but I,

00:14:57.620 you know,

00:14:57.960 he was,

00:14:58.460 I found him

00:14:59.120 totally repulsive

00:14:59.980 in every level

00:15:01.300 from the second

00:15:01.980 I saw him.

00:15:03.420 And so,

00:15:03.760 it begs then

00:15:05.100 the question

00:15:05.880 that you've,

00:15:07.260 in some respect,

00:15:07.920 answered.

00:15:08.280 There wasn't a moment

00:15:09.040 in that campaign

00:15:09.820 then where you said,

00:15:10.920 this guy's gonna win.

00:15:12.460 I mean,

00:15:12.720 you kept,

00:15:13.200 I imagine,

00:15:13.960 seeing those moments

00:15:14.860 like,

00:15:15.400 there's no,

00:15:15.800 he's not a war hero

00:15:16.640 comments,

00:15:17.300 McCain.

00:15:17.600 There's no way

00:15:18.540 this guy gets through

00:15:19.400 until he did.

00:15:21.380 Yeah,

00:15:21.900 no,

00:15:22.480 I mean,

00:15:22.860 no,

00:15:23.560 I would say,

00:15:25.000 yeah,

00:15:25.420 I,

00:15:25.820 I guess I would say this,

00:15:27.260 and I knew he was gonna

00:15:27.920 beat us by like October.

00:15:29.380 So don't get me wrong.

00:15:30.200 I didn't think Trump

00:15:31.120 was a total joke.

00:15:32.320 Like,

00:15:32.480 I just,

00:15:33.140 I felt like,

00:15:34.600 and I knew the Republican

00:15:35.400 Party was a base

00:15:36.120 of support for him.

00:15:37.280 I just didn't know

00:15:37.980 if it was 50 plus one,

00:15:39.280 you know,

00:15:39.600 and to me,

00:15:40.260 the moment actually

00:15:41.280 was after Jeb

00:15:43.160 had already lost

00:15:43.940 and I was working

00:15:44.880 on an anti-Trump

00:15:45.600 super PAC at the time.

00:15:46.680 And you remember

00:15:47.460 that debate with Rubio

00:15:48.640 where Rubio like

00:15:49.960 makes fun of him

00:15:50.720 and says he's got

00:15:51.300 small hands,

00:15:52.000 but Rubio basically 1.00

00:15:52.600 says he has a small dick, 1.00

00:15:54.000 the current Secretary of State. 1.00

00:15:55.560 And I was like,

00:15:57.020 I watched that debate

00:15:57.960 and I thought,

00:15:58.440 okay,

00:15:59.120 this is the moment

00:15:59.920 that it turns for him,

00:16:00.900 right?

00:16:01.120 Like Trump has lost

00:16:02.040 the alpha,

00:16:03.140 people will be like,

00:16:04.220 okay,

00:16:04.480 we can't go with this

00:16:05.300 kind of,

00:16:05.560 we'll pivot,

00:16:06.140 you know,

00:16:06.360 the voters will pivot back.

00:16:07.740 And the opposite happened.

00:16:08.960 Rubio ended up

00:16:09.480 apologizing to him,

00:16:10.540 Trump gains more.

00:16:12.060 And for me,

00:16:12.580 it was at that moment,

00:16:13.300 I was like,

00:16:13.680 oh man,

00:16:13.940 he's going to win

00:16:14.340 the primary for sure.

00:16:16.180 And the general,

00:16:17.300 I just,

00:16:17.820 again,

00:16:18.020 he did lose the popular vote

00:16:19.140 in the general.

00:16:20.160 I think that I,

00:16:21.600 the thing that I missed

00:16:22.560 looking back,

00:16:23.140 because there was never

00:16:23.620 a moment I thought

00:16:24.140 Hillary was going to win. 0.98

00:16:24.820 I'll just admit it.

00:16:25.420 the thing that I missed

00:16:27.380 is that I thought

00:16:30.600 that there's always

00:16:31.460 this thing I went back

00:16:32.060 to in 2012

00:16:32.660 after Romney lost

00:16:33.820 where Stuart Stevens,

00:16:34.780 who's a fellow

00:16:35.140 Never Trumper,

00:16:35.860 was Romney's chief strategist.

00:16:37.400 He said during our

00:16:38.900 kind of autopsy process,

00:16:40.480 he's like,

00:16:40.900 look,

00:16:41.480 Romney got the,

00:16:43.100 the same amount

00:16:44.000 of the white vote

00:16:44.820 that,

00:16:45.700 that Reagan got

00:16:47.340 in his landslide election

00:16:49.180 and he lost.

00:16:50.340 And he's like,

00:16:50.680 there's not much,

00:16:51.760 that much more juice

00:16:52.460 to squeeze

00:16:53.000 out of the white vote.

00:16:53.880 Like we're doing,

00:16:54.500 we're maximum,

00:16:55.060 we're maximizing,

00:16:55.820 we got to do better

00:16:56.600 with,

00:16:57.400 with,

00:16:57.720 with voters of color.

00:16:59.140 And so I just

00:17:00.360 kind of thought that

00:17:01.200 like Trump was never

00:17:02.180 going to be able

00:17:02.860 to get,

00:17:03.600 you know,

00:17:04.460 enough vote

00:17:05.440 from minority communities.

00:17:06.920 And little did we know

00:17:08.120 in 2016

00:17:08.920 that,

00:17:09.480 that the white vote,

00:17:10.800 we weren't even close

00:17:11.520 to the max.

00:17:12.900 Trump got a working class 0.93

00:17:14.580 white vote

00:17:15.100 that was just

00:17:15.660 off the charts

00:17:16.480 and,

00:17:17.380 and he just totally

00:17:18.060 changed how,

00:17:19.560 you know,

00:17:19.860 the,

00:17:20.160 the coalitions

00:17:20.980 and,

00:17:21.620 and then obviously

00:17:22.360 in 24,

00:17:22.860 we can talk about this.

00:17:23.560 He ends up doing better

00:17:24.280 what working class

00:17:24.960 black and brown voters do.

00:17:26.820 But,

00:17:27.340 you know,

00:17:27.740 so for me like that,

00:17:28.860 I just,

00:17:29.260 I just misjudged,

00:17:30.360 you know,

00:17:31.180 that whether there'd be

00:17:31.940 enough votes for somebody

00:17:32.760 like him.

00:17:33.360 That's a total mistake.

00:17:34.540 I want to go back

00:17:35.400 to his appeal

00:17:36.000 and try to get

00:17:37.780 a little forensics

00:17:38.480 in terms of your

00:17:39.060 own deeper

00:17:40.200 relationship

00:17:41.680 to understanding

00:17:42.400 the why

00:17:42.960 he's,

00:17:43.980 he's,

00:17:44.400 he's as successful

00:17:45.820 as he is.

00:17:46.380 But I'm curious,

00:17:47.300 you know,

00:17:47.480 you wrote a book,

00:17:48.240 bestselling book

00:17:48.960 and you,

00:17:49.880 it was,

00:17:50.920 it was humorous book.

00:17:52.220 It was very insightful book.

00:17:53.280 It was universally praised

00:17:55.120 for being just

00:17:55.900 self-critical

00:17:56.720 and honest

00:17:57.260 and reflective

00:17:57.820 in terms of just

00:17:59.000 the mask

00:17:59.540 that so many people

00:18:00.660 put on

00:18:01.160 and a lot of people's

00:18:02.560 faces grew into them.

00:18:03.640 Yours didn't necessarily

00:18:04.600 grow into it.

00:18:06.060 You,

00:18:06.300 you,

00:18:06.700 you felt some complicity

00:18:08.440 as a Republican,

00:18:09.840 but you started

00:18:11.320 to recognize

00:18:11.980 these larger trend lines

00:18:13.100 and,

00:18:13.420 and these deviations

00:18:14.900 from sort of

00:18:15.500 traditional conservatism

00:18:16.760 and the like.

00:18:17.760 But walk us through that.

00:18:19.260 Just,

00:18:19.540 I mean,

00:18:19.940 I know this is

00:18:20.700 old territory for you

00:18:22.760 and I don't want to

00:18:23.400 pave over the,

00:18:24.180 the cow path 0.56

00:18:24.920 over and over on this,

00:18:26.080 but,

00:18:26.620 but I am curious,

00:18:27.280 just your own reflections

00:18:28.800 on just why others

00:18:31.260 decided to sell.

00:18:32.800 I don't want to say it,

00:18:33.640 but I got some knee pads

00:18:34.580 behind me,

00:18:35.500 the Trump,

00:18:36.180 the Trump signature

00:18:36.960 certain knee pads,

00:18:38.180 why they decided

00:18:39.260 just to bend the knee,

00:18:40.300 sell out is,

00:18:41.080 you wrote about it,

00:18:42.340 but maybe you can

00:18:42.920 illuminate us

00:18:44.320 a little bit more.

00:18:45.840 Sure.

00:18:45.980 And I focused on

00:18:47.560 the DC political class.

00:18:50.420 So let me answer

00:18:50.860 that question based on that.

00:18:51.800 I do think it's totally

00:18:52.400 different if you're

00:18:52.940 analyzing voters,

00:18:53.760 like why did voters,

00:18:54.600 like regular voters

00:18:55.540 go for him?

00:18:56.000 Like why did the DC

00:18:56.700 political class

00:18:57.380 get put on the knee pads?

00:18:59.240 And I think back

00:19:00.400 to one of the conversations

00:19:01.960 I had with like

00:19:03.340 a consultant

00:19:04.000 for the book

00:19:06.040 and he wasn't

00:19:06.940 one of the main characters

00:19:07.680 in the book

00:19:07.960 because he didn't want

00:19:08.340 to go on the record.

00:19:09.700 He's on background,

00:19:11.000 but I still did a bunch

00:19:12.020 of those interviews anyway,

00:19:13.060 just because like,

00:19:13.600 you know,

00:19:13.800 sometimes you learn things

00:19:14.840 when people are just

00:19:15.360 telling you the truth

00:19:16.040 if they don't think

00:19:16.540 their name is going

00:19:16.940 to be on it.

00:19:17.680 And he said,

00:19:18.260 he said to me,

00:19:18.800 look, man,

00:19:19.320 he's like my,

00:19:20.380 I'm doing ads

00:19:21.680 for Republican candidates.

00:19:23.640 My wife is mad at me. 1.00

00:19:25.340 All my friends think,

00:19:26.440 you know,

00:19:26.680 all of her friends

00:19:27.380 think I'm a racist.

00:19:28.180 Like it's creating

00:19:28.980 problems in our life.

00:19:30.440 Like everybody's 0.99

00:19:31.660 shit talking us, 1.00

00:19:32.940 you know, 0.99

00:19:33.560 and he's like,

00:19:35.340 you know,

00:19:35.780 I feel like I know 0.95

00:19:36.980 he's a clown, 0.97

00:19:38.160 but the only choice 0.99

00:19:39.420 I have is to like

00:19:40.400 look at the one

00:19:40.960 or two things

00:19:41.540 that I agree

00:19:42.000 with him on

00:19:42.660 and like really

00:19:44.140 hold on to those

00:19:45.900 and ride hurt with him.

00:19:47.480 And I felt like

00:19:48.600 that was like

00:19:49.080 the most revealing

00:19:49.720 conversation I had

00:19:50.560 because it's like

00:19:50.880 pretty embarrassing

00:19:51.520 thing to say actually.

00:19:53.060 He said that

00:19:53.540 and I was kind of like,

00:19:54.080 you realize that

00:19:54.800 I'm still going to know

00:19:56.100 you said this

00:19:56.960 even though I'm not

00:19:57.720 going to put your name

00:19:58.340 on it.

00:19:58.940 But anyway,

00:19:59.640 I thought it was honest

00:20:00.800 and it was an honest moment.

00:20:01.740 I think that there's

00:20:02.340 just a club.

00:20:03.340 You get into a club

00:20:04.600 in D.C.

00:20:05.040 and you don't

00:20:05.620 want to have to admit

00:20:06.840 that like your side

00:20:08.180 is the bad side.

00:20:09.860 You know,

00:20:10.320 you want to still have

00:20:11.580 you want to still have

00:20:13.160 career,

00:20:14.060 you know,

00:20:14.320 part of it's money,

00:20:15.220 of course,

00:20:15.860 part of it's access

00:20:16.460 to power,

00:20:17.380 part of it's a feeling

00:20:17.980 of relevance.

00:20:18.700 I think particularly

00:20:19.180 for kind of men,

00:20:20.240 their job is so tied

00:20:21.660 to kind of their

00:20:22.320 significance as a person,

00:20:23.860 you know,

00:20:24.700 and their self-esteem.

00:20:27.220 And I think like

00:20:27.840 that was it.

00:20:29.420 It's more of just

00:20:30.100 like a cultural

00:20:31.080 element of D.C.

00:20:32.700 where it was like

00:20:33.540 it was easier

00:20:34.300 for people to say

00:20:35.040 I'm going to go along

00:20:35.640 with something

00:20:35.980 that I know is bad

00:20:37.000 at some level

00:20:37.760 than it is to say,

00:20:40.540 okay,

00:20:41.480 I screwed up,

00:20:42.240 I was wrong.

00:20:42.960 Or is it that it is

00:20:43.760 to say,

00:20:44.280 oh man,

00:20:44.580 I'm going to go

00:20:44.940 out into the wilderness.

00:20:46.260 I'm going to go

00:20:46.600 take a job,

00:20:47.380 a different job,

00:20:48.740 you know,

00:20:49.300 that makes,

00:20:50.440 that is less important

00:20:51.280 seeming, right?

00:20:52.100 Like I think that

00:20:52.760 that was a lot of it.

00:20:54.480 And you see this

00:20:55.100 with the politicians

00:20:55.800 in Washington too,

00:20:56.840 you know,

00:20:57.080 like they,

00:20:57.720 they just want

00:20:58.740 to be in the mix.

00:20:59.440 Like that is the phrase

00:21:00.280 I kept coming back

00:21:01.000 to more than anything.

00:21:01.840 I think that every,

00:21:03.060 a lot of different careers

00:21:03.920 have different issues.

00:21:05.580 You know,

00:21:05.840 if you're in Hollywood,

00:21:06.740 you want to be famous.

00:21:07.800 If you're in New York

00:21:08.700 in finance,

00:21:09.280 you want to have money

00:21:10.140 in politics.

00:21:11.000 All of us,

00:21:11.560 we have it, man.

00:21:12.140 I have it.

00:21:12.920 Like is this kind of

00:21:14.120 sense of I want to be

00:21:15.140 in the mix.

00:21:15.640 I want to feel like

00:21:16.180 I matter, you know?

00:21:17.680 And,

00:21:18.040 and sometimes

00:21:19.200 that's more important.

00:21:19.900 I don't know

00:21:20.040 what you think about this

00:21:20.820 even than like having power

00:21:22.360 because like having power

00:21:23.700 has like responsibility

00:21:24.720 associated with it.

00:21:25.900 Like being around power

00:21:27.340 and like being able

00:21:28.560 to feel like you're,

00:21:30.060 you know,

00:21:30.560 sort of BSing with people

00:21:31.780 and that you know

00:21:32.220 the inside scoop,

00:21:33.180 that's easy.

00:21:33.860 Like that's,

00:21:34.440 that's feeling important

00:21:35.400 without having responsibility.

00:21:37.260 And to me,

00:21:38.440 you know,

00:21:38.940 there are a lot of

00:21:39.360 different reasons

00:21:39.720 for different people,

00:21:40.380 but that's the one

00:21:42.280 that I think describes

00:21:43.200 why most of these guys

00:21:44.420 stuck around with him.

00:21:45.280 Yeah,

00:21:46.360 I'm reminded just in,

00:21:47.240 in terms of just

00:21:48.040 the appearance of power

00:21:49.140 and having power

00:21:51.100 of Havel who said

00:21:52.300 that when he became

00:21:53.940 president of Czechoslovakia,

00:21:55.460 it degeniused him.

00:21:56.980 He talked about

00:21:57.480 the constraints of office

00:21:59.100 and that at the peak

00:22:00.480 of his influence,

00:22:01.540 he had the kind of influence

00:22:04.360 that Gandhi had

00:22:05.520 and never served a day

00:22:06.320 as prime minister or king,

00:22:07.640 never served a day

00:22:08.260 as president.

00:22:08.840 And that was moral authority

00:22:10.180 and of course time in jail.

00:22:12.880 He talked about the fact

00:22:13.940 he was more powerful

00:22:15.340 in many respects in jail

00:22:17.380 than he was as president

00:22:18.400 of his reflective country.

00:22:19.920 I'm taking liberties here,

00:22:21.140 but it's in the spirit

00:22:21.780 of what you're saying

00:22:22.560 in terms of just being

00:22:23.820 in the mix.

00:22:24.100 And one example,

00:22:24.960 maybe this will resonate

00:22:25.640 with you,

00:22:26.020 but like,

00:22:26.400 I don't know,

00:22:26.740 I think about,

00:22:27.340 there was a quote

00:22:27.740 from Chris Christie

00:22:28.420 was on like a different podcast.

00:22:30.160 I was listening to him

00:22:30.860 and he's like,

00:22:31.580 you leave the governor's office

00:22:32.740 and the lights turn off

00:22:34.560 and nobody's calling you anymore.

00:22:36.600 And he's like,

00:22:37.460 and he's talking about it

00:22:38.180 as like,

00:22:38.900 as he's describing it,

00:22:40.020 I think he wants sympathy,

00:22:41.080 but it sounds kind of like sad.

00:22:42.440 It's just like,

00:22:43.020 he's saying like,

00:22:44.060 this was the hardest thing

00:22:44.940 I had to deal with.

00:22:45.420 I had to deal with all this stuff.

00:22:46.460 But like the most hard thing

00:22:47.560 was like,

00:22:48.000 I left Drum Thwockett

00:22:49.080 and nobody called me.

00:22:50.240 And I think that all those guys

00:22:51.400 in the Senate and the House

00:22:52.200 and women, 1.00

00:22:52.680 they look at Liz Cheney

00:22:54.440 and Adam Kinzinger

00:22:55.100 and some of your listeners

00:22:56.380 might look at them

00:22:56.880 and say,

00:22:57.240 man,

00:22:58.400 that is so great.

00:22:59.660 They'll be able to tell their kids

00:23:00.620 that they did this great thing

00:23:01.640 and they have all this recognition.

00:23:03.120 But the guys on the Hill look at them

00:23:04.580 and they say,

00:23:05.220 what does Liz Cheney do 1.00

00:23:06.280 in the morning?

00:23:07.040 Like,

00:23:07.380 is she doing,

00:23:08.040 she's just being a mother

00:23:10.060 and a grand,

00:23:10.540 like she doesn't have a job now. 0.68

00:23:12.480 Nobody's calling her.

00:23:13.680 Nobody's,

00:23:14.540 you know,

00:23:14.860 that like that,

00:23:16.000 like feeling of importance

00:23:17.360 is the ticket

00:23:19.540 for a lot of these guys.

00:23:20.860 It so resonates with me.

00:23:22.480 I'll never forget

00:23:23.040 the first speech I gave

00:23:24.340 when I was mayor-elect

00:23:25.320 and I did the same

00:23:26.080 as governor-elect.

00:23:26.940 I said,

00:23:27.360 I'm the future ex-mayor

00:23:29.380 of San Francisco.

00:23:30.440 I said the same thing,

00:23:31.140 a future ex-governor.

00:23:32.260 Having that mindset

00:23:33.140 of the temporary nature of this,

00:23:35.380 but also the freedom

00:23:36.240 that comes from that

00:23:37.040 and not trying to hold on to that

00:23:38.660 and become someone you're not.

00:23:40.320 It's so,

00:23:40.660 I mean,

00:23:40.880 I've seen that.

00:23:41.640 I've seen,

00:23:42.240 it's interesting Chris said that,

00:23:43.480 Governor Christie,

00:23:44.160 but I've seen that over all my life.

00:23:46.700 I've seen that.

00:23:47.440 And you're right.

00:23:48.720 It's,

00:23:49.100 there is a,

00:23:49.860 you develop a little empathy for it. 0.97

00:23:51.540 I know people call it pathetic, 0.97

00:23:52.900 et cetera, 0.97

00:23:53.120 but it is what it is.

00:23:54.800 And you're right.

00:23:55.640 People are,

00:23:56.040 you know,

00:23:56.240 punch drunk there.

00:23:57.160 They live way past their prime

00:23:58.980 and they're just desperate

00:24:00.400 to be something.

00:24:01.580 And they've forgotten

00:24:02.440 that it's not about being something,

00:24:04.180 it's about doing something.

00:24:04.460 It's going to scare you a little bit.

00:24:05.560 Does it scare you that it's over?

00:24:07.700 Governor's race ends and.

00:24:09.340 no,

00:24:09.580 you gotta,

00:24:10.020 I gotta sell by date.

00:24:11.400 I gotta,

00:24:11.720 I'm a milk carton,

00:24:12.500 man.

00:24:12.880 I mean,

00:24:13.160 I'm,

00:24:13.360 I'm well aware of it.

00:24:14.680 And everyone's talking about

00:24:15.660 who's the next governor.

00:24:16.640 You're like,

00:24:16.820 I don't want to talk about it.

00:24:18.220 Cause it's honestly,

00:24:19.180 it's hard.

00:24:19.620 It's like,

00:24:20.100 Jesus,

00:24:20.600 I'm still governor.

00:24:21.300 I'm still,

00:24:22.040 but I had the gift

00:24:22.960 and I don't want to get too much

00:24:24.680 into me here or at all into me,

00:24:26.060 but the gift was having gone through this

00:24:28.400 as an ex mayor.

00:24:29.360 And I'll never forget.

00:24:30.500 I mean,

00:24:30.660 literally walking downstairs

00:24:32.140 as everyone was walking upstairs,

00:24:34.260 all the press and everybody else,

00:24:35.560 90% of my old staff

00:24:37.200 for the new mayor.

00:24:38.940 And they're swearing in.

00:24:40.240 It was like,

00:24:40.600 no one cared.

00:24:41.900 Literally game over.

00:24:43.960 They care.

00:24:44.620 They,

00:24:44.820 you thought they cared about what you thought

00:24:47.000 two days prior,

00:24:48.400 two days later,

00:24:49.440 you don't matter,

00:24:50.420 which proves that,

00:24:52.260 you know,

00:24:52.500 your status today.

00:24:53.860 You know,

00:24:54.140 a little bit of humility,

00:24:55.500 a little bit of grace.

00:24:56.520 It's the desk.

00:24:57.620 It's the phone.

00:24:58.620 It ain't about you,

00:24:59.700 brother.

00:25:00.760 You know,

00:25:01.360 and,

00:25:01.660 and you come and go,

00:25:02.880 you know,

00:25:03.480 sit.

00:25:03.940 Yeah.

00:25:04.280 And that's it.

00:25:04.840 I,

00:25:05.120 he wants,

00:25:06.180 I feel like people want something

00:25:07.620 when they asked you about this,

00:25:08.420 why Republicans went along with them,

00:25:09.620 something a little deeper than that.

00:25:10.860 Cause it like feels so shallow.

00:25:12.520 That's like,

00:25:12.860 really?

00:25:13.120 That's it.

00:25:13.940 They just want it.

00:25:14.820 They just want to feel important

00:25:15.820 and get phone calls

00:25:17.060 and go on air force one.

00:25:18.620 And it's like,

00:25:19.240 yeah,

00:25:19.580 that's what it is for most of them.

00:25:21.620 Yeah.

00:25:22.200 It's,

00:25:22.560 it's,

00:25:22.580 it's a bad,

00:25:23.200 it should be,

00:25:23.640 I I'm with you.

00:25:24.680 And I think the people that thrive

00:25:26.000 are the ones that have a sense of meaning,

00:25:27.480 purpose,

00:25:27.940 mission,

00:25:28.400 and are willing to buck conventional wisdom,

00:25:30.660 say what they think,

00:25:31.460 take risks,

00:25:32.520 learn from their mistakes,

00:25:33.520 make mistakes,

00:25:34.720 be accountable and evolve.

00:25:37.760 Listen,

00:25:38.340 grow,

00:25:39.080 be human.

00:25:40.060 And I,

00:25:40.440 you know,

00:25:40.580 I hope politics is starting to reward a little bit of that.

00:25:43.100 And I,

00:25:43.460 it pulls me back now.

00:25:44.900 Do you think part of Trump's secret sauce is that perception that I don't need this.

00:25:52.020 I'm so rich.

00:25:53.080 I'd rather be golfing.

00:25:54.540 I'm doing this for you.

00:25:56.020 How many times he said that in debates,

00:25:57.960 how many times he's tried to bloviate,

00:26:00.020 you know,

00:26:01.040 that he was able to sell that at least to people.

00:26:04.220 Yeah.

00:26:04.340 Right.

00:26:04.560 They're coming after me.

00:26:05.600 Like I'm staying,

00:26:06.320 I'm the one standing between them coming after you,

00:26:08.580 all that kind of stuff.

00:26:10.260 I do.

00:26:11.600 Trump has a lot of skills.

00:26:14.100 You know,

00:26:14.380 I hate to give him any credit for anything,

00:26:16.400 but like he's won twice.

00:26:17.740 So like,

00:26:18.220 you have to just acknowledge it.

00:26:19.760 Right.

00:26:19.980 And say,

00:26:20.680 what can we learn from it?

00:26:21.560 Sometimes I worry that Democrats like learn about the wrong things.

00:26:23.700 Cause he's like,

00:26:25.120 he does so much.

00:26:26.080 Right.

00:26:26.260 And it's like,

00:26:26.580 what is actually resonating?

00:26:27.960 And,

00:26:28.420 and I think that like the sense that he's not a conventional politician.

00:26:34.520 Right.

00:26:34.880 Has benefited him so much.

00:26:36.560 And it's just,

00:26:37.860 and,

00:26:38.940 and a lot of it is like,

00:26:40.300 what's the old Supreme court line about porn?

00:26:42.620 Like,

00:26:42.840 you know,

00:26:43.040 when you see it,

00:26:43.740 like it's hard,

00:26:44.400 like sometimes,

00:26:45.160 sometimes traditional politicians feel like they're not that politician.

00:26:49.440 Sometimes outsiders can sound kind of traditional,

00:26:52.200 right?

00:26:52.360 Like it's,

00:26:52.940 it's a little bit,

00:26:53.680 there's not a Trump for a million reasons does not seem like he's a normal

00:26:57.460 politician.

00:26:57.940 And at this day and age,

00:26:59.300 we could,

00:27:00.420 we could get a sociologist out here or figured out why it is,

00:27:03.380 whether it's our phones or globalism or whatever,

00:27:06.100 or like people feel unserved by traditional politicians.

00:27:12.720 And,

00:27:13.160 and I could argue against people on that.

00:27:17.200 I can yell at Tom blue in the face about how like,

00:27:19.760 yeah,

00:27:20.140 life it's like,

00:27:20.940 there's bad things about America today,

00:27:22.760 but like in the grand scheme of things,

00:27:25.540 you know,

00:27:25.900 we've been served pretty well by the post-World War II establishing an order.

00:27:29.140 Like you can make all those cases,

00:27:30.320 but it's just like that people feel what they feel and people feel let down by

00:27:34.900 regular politics,

00:27:36.020 regular politicians.

00:27:36.840 And they're looking for people that have,

00:27:40.000 you know,

00:27:40.580 that,

00:27:40.860 that can,

00:27:42.400 that represent as being outside of that.

00:27:45.500 And Trump just does like,

00:27:47.440 that's just,

00:27:48.040 I,

00:27:48.220 you know,

00:27:48.480 he just has that.

00:27:49.320 He doesn't have to try.

00:27:50.300 He exudes it.

00:27:51.480 And so I think that's benefited him a great deal.

00:27:55.220 When you look back,

00:27:56.640 you know,

00:27:57.300 and we speak of learning lessons and,

00:27:59.460 and trying to understand and absorb success and failure in politics.

00:28:03.860 Do you,

00:28:04.640 do you think,

00:28:05.220 I mean,

00:28:05.540 and I don't want to,

00:28:06.200 we don't have to go too far down the rabbit hole of the democratic party,

00:28:09.220 but you know,

00:28:10.320 the forensics around why Harris may have lost and,

00:28:13.540 you know,

00:28:13.860 and everybody's theories of the incumbency penalty or if it's interest rates or

00:28:19.140 it's inflation scars,

00:28:20.180 or as you know,

00:28:21.180 is it a insufficient differentiation between what was perceived to be the

00:28:26.640 incumbent Biden or the timing of his departure and 107 days,

00:28:29.940 et cetera.

00:28:30.660 Do you look back though,

00:28:31.620 more deeply that the parties there's trend lines that are become,

00:28:36.140 more headlines today that go back decades with our party,

00:28:39.080 with my party,

00:28:39.800 where we've kind of lost our way.

00:28:42.200 And what are those issues?

00:28:43.480 If you,

00:28:43.960 if you feel that way,

00:28:45.160 what are the issues that you think that you would identify that we should be

00:28:49.580 more,

00:28:49.880 I think,

00:28:50.180 sensitive to.

00:28:50.820 Hey there,

00:28:51.920 Dr.

00:28:52.180 Jesse Mills here.

00:28:53.140 I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA health.

00:28:55.340 And I want to tell you about my new podcast called the mail room.

00:28:58.840 And I'm Jordan,

00:28:59.440 the show's producer.

00:29:00.420 And like a lot of guys,

00:29:01.820 I haven't been to the doctor in many years.

00:29:04.800 I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking,

00:29:07.520 but aren't.

00:29:08.220 Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging

00:29:11.460 off or they've broken a bone.

00:29:13.220 Depends which bone.

00:29:14.560 Well,

00:29:14.800 that's true.

00:29:15.740 Every week we're breaking down the unique world of men's health from 1.00

00:29:18.900 testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the

00:29:23.480 bedroom.

00:29:24.760 You mean sleep?

00:29:25.920 Yeah.

00:29:26.200 Something like that.

00:29:26.920 Jordan,

00:29:27.260 we'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you

00:29:31.400 actually wonder about.

00:29:32.760 It's going to be fun.

00:29:33.700 Whether you're 27,

00:29:35.020 97 or somewhere in between.

00:29:37.300 Men's health is about more than six packs and supplements. 0.96

00:29:39.880 It's about energy,

00:29:41.300 confidence,

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00:29:43.140 We don't just want you to live longer.

00:29:44.720 We want you to live better.

00:29:46.580 So check out the mailroom on the iHeartRadio app,

00:29:49.100 Apple Podcasts,

00:29:50.220 or wherever you get your favorite shows.

00:29:53.780 Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us.

00:29:57.820 Two brothers,

00:29:58.780 one devout household,

00:30:00.300 two radically different paths.

00:30:02.360 Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest ranking law enforcement officers in Texas.

00:30:06.420 32 years,

00:30:07.460 total law enforcement experience.

00:30:09.120 But his brother Larry,

00:30:10.240 he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy.

00:30:13.020 He was the head of this gang and nobody was going to tell him what to do.

00:30:17.960 You're going to push that line for the cause.

00:30:19.720 Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it.

00:30:24.120 When Larry is murdered,

00:30:25.280 Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming.

00:30:30.620 My dad had a whole nother life that we never knew about.

00:30:35.080 Like my mom started screaming my dad's name and I just heard one gunshot.

00:30:39.380 The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith,

00:30:43.940 family,

00:30:44.280 and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way.

00:30:49.140 Listen to The Brothers Ortiz on the iHeartRadio app,

00:30:51.860 Apple Podcasts,

00:30:52.800 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:30:54.540 What up, y'all?

00:30:59.480 It's your boy,

00:31:00.160 Kev On Stage.

00:31:00.920 I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment,

00:31:04.400 where I talk to artists,

00:31:05.740 athletes,

00:31:06.280 entertainers,

00:31:06.960 creators,

00:31:07.540 friends,

00:31:08.500 people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures.

00:31:13.140 What did they mess up on?

00:31:14.460 What is their heartbreak?

00:31:15.420 And what did they learn from it?

00:31:17.040 I got judged horribly.

00:31:19.460 The judges were like, 1.00

00:31:20.200 you're trash. 1.00

00:31:21.340 I don't know how you got on the show. 1.00

00:31:23.080 Boo.

00:31:23.360 Somebody had tomatoes.

00:31:24.520 No, I'm kidding.

00:31:25.160 But if they had tomatoes,

00:31:26.360 they would have thrown the tomatoes. 0.95

00:31:27.860 Let's be honest.

00:31:28.700 We've all had those moments we'd rather forget.

00:31:31.460 We bumped our head.

00:31:32.440 We made a mistake.

00:31:33.420 The deal fell through.

00:31:34.780 We're embarrassed.

00:31:36.240 We failed.

00:31:37.400 But this podcast is about that and how we made it through.

00:31:40.740 So when they sat me down,

00:31:42.900 they were kind of like,

00:31:43.660 we got into the small talk and they were just like,

00:31:45.460 so what do you got?

00:31:46.020 What ideas?

00:31:46.720 And I was like,

00:31:47.200 oh no.

00:31:48.740 What?

00:31:49.960 Check out Not My Best Moment with me,

00:31:51.640 Kev On Stage,

00:31:52.300 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:31:54.040 Apple Podcasts,

00:31:55.220 YouTube,

00:31:55.780 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:31:57.220 Hey, everybody.

00:31:59.260 It's Chuck and Josh from the Stuff You Should Know Podcast,

00:32:01.560 and it's that time of year again

00:32:02.860 when we knuckle down to do our annual holiday episodes.

00:32:05.740 We collected our best past classic holiday episodes

00:32:08.660 and compiled them into a 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist

00:32:12.100 that the whole family can enjoy.

00:32:14.240 That's right.

00:32:14.660 Maybe you missed it the first time

00:32:15.760 we detailed the history of Beanie Babies,

00:32:17.780 Monopoly,

00:32:18.360 or Yo-Yos,

00:32:19.160 and a whole lot more.

00:32:20.220 So listen to the 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist

00:32:22.980 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:32:24.360 Apple Podcasts,

00:32:25.420 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:32:28.160 May 24th, 1990.

00:32:30.900 A pipe bomb explodes in the front seat

00:32:33.480 of environmental activist Judy Berry's car.

00:32:36.420 I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded.

00:32:38.720 I felt it rip through me

00:32:39.940 with just a force more powerful and terrible

00:32:43.400 than anything that I could describe.

00:32:45.720 In Season 2 of Rip Current,

00:32:47.420 we ask,

00:32:48.200 who tried to kill Judy Berry? 1.00

00:32:50.260 And why?

00:32:52.000 She received death threats before the bombing.

00:32:54.360 She received more threats after the bombing.

00:32:56.320 The man and woman who were heard

00:32:57.960 had planned to lead a summer of militant protest

00:33:00.440 against logging practices in Northern California.

00:33:03.200 They were climbing trees

00:33:04.620 and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods.

00:33:08.240 The timber industry,

00:33:09.380 I mean, it was the number one industry in the area,

00:33:11.680 but more than it was the culture,

00:33:12.880 it was the way of life.

00:33:14.000 I think that this is a deliberate attempt

00:33:16.180 to sabotage our movement.

00:33:18.040 Episodes of Rip Current Season 2

00:33:19.860 are available now.

00:33:21.540 Listen on the iHeartRadio app,

00:33:23.440 Apple Podcasts,

00:33:24.660 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:33:29.080 Yeah, people love hearing from ex-Republicans

00:33:31.100 telling what Democrats should do,

00:33:32.300 but I'm going to do it anyway.

00:33:34.260 So,

00:33:35.580 there are two things that stand out to me.

00:33:38.220 Like, one is just

00:33:39.860 that I can speak of

00:33:41.340 from being as a former Republican

00:33:42.600 as Democrats'

00:33:44.960 ability to compete in red states.

00:33:48.160 It's just like,

00:33:49.820 it doesn't feel like Democrats

00:33:51.060 are even trying anymore.

00:33:52.440 And it feels like the Democrats

00:33:53.760 got out of touch culturally

00:33:55.860 with what was happening in red states.

00:33:58.880 And I understand why.

00:34:01.440 You know,

00:34:01.780 there's a lot of things,

00:34:03.660 I think that,

00:34:04.540 you know,

00:34:04.820 you can look at the progress

00:34:06.340 starting with you back as mayor of San Francisco

00:34:08.540 all the way through

00:34:09.220 of Democrats pushing forward,

00:34:11.080 gay rights.

00:34:11.660 And like,

00:34:11.960 you can talk about a lot of this stuff

00:34:12.980 and say,

00:34:13.240 hey,

00:34:13.820 you know,

00:34:14.340 a moment of racial reckoning

00:34:16.640 and like all,

00:34:17.280 you know,

00:34:17.540 go through all these issues,

00:34:18.960 climate,

00:34:19.480 dealing with climate change.

00:34:20.840 Like,

00:34:21.060 there are good reasons for all of it.

00:34:23.100 But eventually,

00:34:23.780 you get to a point

00:34:24.580 where it's like,

00:34:25.640 man,

00:34:26.640 Democrats can't really even compete

00:34:28.500 right now

00:34:29.020 in Iowa,

00:34:29.800 Florida,

00:34:30.560 Texas,

00:34:31.220 Ohio.

00:34:31.640 How do you win?

00:34:32.760 How do you become a national party

00:34:34.380 if you don't have a message

00:34:36.000 for those folks?

00:34:37.320 And I think that there's been

00:34:38.920 a lot of complacency about that.

00:34:41.240 And like,

00:34:41.580 rather than just like really accepting it

00:34:43.880 and saying,

00:34:44.420 hey,

00:34:45.840 you know,

00:34:46.540 what can we do to communicate

00:34:48.920 to people in these states

00:34:49.980 that we care about them

00:34:50.860 and center them

00:34:51.540 and like put them forward?

00:34:52.640 You know,

00:34:52.800 I think it's funny,

00:34:54.220 centering,

00:34:54.980 I just use this kind of lefty word.

00:34:56.420 And Democrats understand

00:34:58.680 it like every other context,

00:35:00.220 the importance

00:35:00.880 of representation

00:35:03.160 and centering

00:35:05.360 of every demographic group

00:35:06.960 except

00:35:07.840 conservative Americans

00:35:09.560 and men

00:35:10.640 and young men,

00:35:11.400 right?

00:35:11.600 Like,

00:35:11.860 you know,

00:35:12.280 it's like,

00:35:12.960 you get why you have to show up 0.98

00:35:15.020 in black communities. 0.97

00:35:16.140 You get why you have to show up 0.52

00:35:17.580 to talk to,

00:35:18.560 you know,

00:35:19.240 seniors.

00:35:20.080 You get like,

00:35:20.520 you name the group.

00:35:22.000 Okay,

00:35:22.340 we'll show up

00:35:23.380 and demonstrate

00:35:24.120 that you care

00:35:25.020 about Red America

00:35:25.940 and I just like,

00:35:28.340 I'm trying to think of who,

00:35:29.460 like Beto is the last person

00:35:30.680 that I thought like

00:35:31.200 actually really tried to do that

00:35:32.600 without like losing his center

00:35:34.380 as a liberal or progressive,

00:35:36.760 how he defined himself.

00:35:37.520 He at least showed up

00:35:38.460 and they knew he showed up.

00:35:39.440 He tried to make it part of his brand

00:35:41.540 and he only lost by three in Texas.

00:35:43.920 It was the best race in Texas

00:35:44.900 they've had.

00:35:45.780 So I think there's something about that

00:35:46.860 just like showing up and trying.

00:35:48.500 The other thing is just accepting

00:35:50.200 like heterodoxy

00:35:51.540 in general

00:35:53.020 on different stuff.

00:35:54.160 And this is my big thing,

00:35:55.260 man.

00:35:55.480 Like I got into

00:35:56.400 an argument

00:35:57.440 with our friends

00:35:58.120 at Crooked Media

00:35:58.680 on stage

00:35:59.340 with a bunch of different

00:36:00.140 democratic strategists

00:36:01.500 when I made the point

00:36:02.680 I was like,

00:36:03.100 Trump moderated

00:36:04.520 on some things.

00:36:06.540 Like a lot of Democrats

00:36:07.100 don't want to accept that.

00:36:08.260 Yeah.

00:36:08.500 Borsha,

00:36:08.780 no,

00:36:09.000 it's true.

00:36:09.420 There are a couple of issues

00:36:10.280 where you're right,

00:36:10.940 100%.

00:36:11.380 And so what did he do though?

00:36:12.720 He ran against

00:36:13.440 the establishment of the party

00:36:14.620 from the left and the right.

00:36:16.460 He's like,

00:36:16.880 the establishment party

00:36:17.540 has been too weak

00:36:18.300 on immigration

00:36:18.920 and crime

00:36:19.680 and racial,

00:36:20.320 whatever.

00:36:20.960 I'm going to run

00:36:21.460 to the right of them

00:36:21.960 on that.

00:36:22.600 But on war,

00:36:24.240 on Social Security,

00:36:26.660 on Medicaid,

00:36:29.020 or Medicare rather,

00:36:30.100 on gay issues

00:36:30.980 even a little bit.

00:36:32.040 He like ran to the left

00:36:33.380 and said,

00:36:34.460 oh no,

00:36:34.720 the party has been

00:36:35.320 wrong about this.

00:36:36.200 And didn't just say

00:36:37.040 he was moderate about it.

00:36:38.000 He was like,

00:36:38.300 no, 1.00

00:36:38.460 these guys are idiots. 1.00

00:36:39.380 They're trying to take away 1.00

00:36:40.040 your Social Security.

00:36:40.800 They're putting you 1.00

00:36:41.340 in stupid wars. 1.00

00:36:42.440 These guys are idiots. 1.00

00:36:43.760 So he ran to the left 1.00

00:36:44.840 aggressively.

00:36:46.440 And I just think

00:36:47.140 that if you just look

00:36:47.920 at the last 10 years

00:36:50.140 of Clinton,

00:36:51.820 Biden,

00:36:52.460 Harris,

00:36:53.100 all good people,

00:36:53.880 none of you have

00:36:54.640 any issue with,

00:36:55.560 they all kind of ran

00:36:56.460 as status quo.

00:36:57.760 And if you look

00:36:58.340 at the big candidates

00:36:59.520 for Senate and governor's races,

00:37:00.900 most of them all ran

00:37:02.040 as like various versions

00:37:03.380 of like kind of

00:37:04.600 mainstream liberalism,

00:37:06.220 whatever you,

00:37:06.820 however defined.

00:37:07.900 And I just think

00:37:08.720 that the Democrats,

00:37:09.520 when they think about

00:37:10.680 opening up the tent,

00:37:11.520 it needs to be more

00:37:12.120 than about just like

00:37:12.880 accepting people like me,

00:37:14.020 but like really opening

00:37:14.920 up the tent

00:37:15.460 and like thinking about

00:37:16.520 how you can run

00:37:17.240 against the establishment

00:37:18.860 in certain ways

00:37:19.760 and whether that's

00:37:20.880 on economics

00:37:21.560 or on foreign policy,

00:37:23.100 you know,

00:37:23.400 you can have somebody

00:37:23.960 on this show

00:37:24.420 that'd be like,

00:37:24.900 really,

00:37:25.180 it goes back to

00:37:26.060 Clinton and corporatism

00:37:27.860 and should have cared

00:37:29.620 more about working class stuff.

00:37:31.140 Maybe,

00:37:31.740 maybe,

00:37:32.220 I guess I'm just saying

00:37:33.360 I'm open to any

00:37:34.180 of those things.

00:37:34.720 But what I would like

00:37:35.420 to see is the Democrats

00:37:36.240 say,

00:37:36.700 okay,

00:37:37.760 people feel like the party

00:37:38.820 is not representing them.

00:37:40.520 We need to run against

00:37:41.940 what the party

00:37:42.400 has been doing

00:37:43.160 to show people

00:37:44.560 that we hear them.

00:37:46.360 And I think,

00:37:47.020 I feel like it could be

00:37:47.660 on a lot of different things.

00:37:48.720 I think maybe it's

00:37:49.480 cultural issues,

00:37:50.060 maybe it's economic issues,

00:37:51.060 maybe it's foreign policy.

00:37:52.860 I don't...

00:37:53.440 What I mean,

00:37:53.820 is it gun issues?

00:37:55.340 Where do you see,

00:37:55.980 I mean,

00:37:56.120 just in terms of

00:37:56.780 breaking them down

00:37:57.540 and breaking it down

00:37:58.500 a little bit more

00:37:59.040 pragmatically

00:37:59.680 on the subset of issues?

00:38:02.340 I may have to see

00:38:02.840 we get into

00:38:03.560 the whole pronoun issue,

00:38:04.860 the sort of cultural normancy,

00:38:06.540 the issues around

00:38:07.380 trans rights and sports.

00:38:09.620 But I mean,

00:38:10.160 where do you start

00:38:11.320 to see the contours

00:38:12.420 of that?

00:38:13.160 Or is it,

00:38:13.920 are we way off?

00:38:14.640 Is it more just

00:38:15.120 the populism

00:38:16.200 of a Bernie

00:38:16.780 and an AOC 0.97

00:38:17.840 and a mom dummy 0.58

00:38:18.840 that meets

00:38:19.780 sort of a ban

00:38:20.400 in MAGA base?

00:38:22.440 Yeah.

00:38:22.760 I mean,

00:38:23.440 I guess my answer

00:38:25.020 to this is

00:38:25.720 we should try

00:38:27.860 different stuff

00:38:28.660 and see what sticks

00:38:29.600 and like let

00:38:30.240 a thousand followers

00:38:31.280 bloom,

00:38:32.180 right?

00:38:32.680 And like,

00:38:32.960 instead of trying

00:38:33.400 the same thing

00:38:33.900 over and over again,

00:38:34.620 like what's the definition

00:38:35.200 of insanity,

00:38:35.900 right?

00:38:36.480 Like I look at,

00:38:38.040 I would,

00:38:38.960 to answer your question,

00:38:39.760 like if I could make

00:38:40.600 a lab candidate,

00:38:41.640 like if,

00:38:42.360 you know,

00:38:42.500 if you get into

00:38:43.240 Madden or NBA 2K

00:38:45.580 where you get to create

00:38:46.280 your own candidate,

00:38:47.060 like if you created

00:38:47.660 your own person,

00:38:49.140 and these are not

00:38:50.200 my personal views,

00:38:51.680 so I'm just assessing

00:38:52.780 what I think would be

00:38:53.600 smart politics.

00:38:55.020 Like I would think

00:38:55.900 that a candidate

00:38:56.500 that like run,

00:38:57.540 that has some Bernie-ish

00:38:59.060 like on economics

00:39:00.680 of saying,

00:39:01.420 hey,

00:39:02.160 we're going to run

00:39:03.020 against the billionaires

00:39:05.480 class and we're going

00:39:06.420 to,

00:39:06.680 you know,

00:39:06.900 create a new tax bracket

00:39:08.240 for the top 0.1%.

00:39:10.400 And also,

00:39:12.300 by the way,

00:39:13.080 I think that we,

00:39:15.580 you know,

00:39:16.760 should really be supportive

00:39:19.040 of our police

00:39:19.940 and law enforcement

00:39:20.800 and like,

00:39:22.040 and I'm not just

00:39:22.900 going to say this,

00:39:23.420 but I'm going to make

00:39:23.780 one of the centering

00:39:24.400 things of my campaign

00:39:25.320 that we fund a lot of,

00:39:26.560 we put a ton of money

00:39:27.540 into the cops

00:39:28.260 and I have cops

00:39:29.180 behind me on stage

00:39:30.260 when I'm doing events

00:39:31.120 and also on foreign

00:39:32.580 policy.

00:39:33.200 I think maybe we should

00:39:33.880 like,

00:39:34.640 you know, 0.99

00:39:34.860 Trump is terrible 1.00

00:39:36.420 and irresponsible 1.00

00:39:37.180 and he sucked up 0.97

00:39:38.700 to all the dictators 0.75

00:39:39.500 or there's one thing

00:39:40.340 that he's right about

00:39:41.020 is maybe we should

00:39:41.580 spend a little bit less.

00:39:43.780 That's not my politics,

00:39:45.220 by the way,

00:39:45.680 what I just laid out.

00:39:46.640 But like,

00:39:46.980 that's something

00:39:47.420 that's like totally different

00:39:48.660 than what we're seeing

00:39:50.380 from Democrats.

00:39:51.160 I mean,

00:39:51.320 you,

00:39:51.820 you know,

00:39:52.840 you could say people

00:39:53.840 paid lip service

00:39:54.540 to any of that.

00:39:55.100 There's the James Carville

00:39:55.960 op-ed recently

00:39:56.900 where he was like,

00:39:57.740 you should be populist

00:39:58.860 and you should make sure

00:40:00.640 that everybody knows it

00:40:02.300 and like that is to me

00:40:03.720 like a big thing,

00:40:04.420 right?

00:40:04.580 Like,

00:40:05.280 so I don't,

00:40:06.740 I'm less prescriptive on,

00:40:08.820 I think it's just

00:40:09.940 defund the police

00:40:10.760 or I think it's just,

00:40:11.700 you know,

00:40:13.180 whatever,

00:40:13.640 corporatism

00:40:14.500 or,

00:40:14.980 you know,

00:40:15.420 whatever the typical

00:40:16.200 things you'd hear.

00:40:16.960 It's just woke.

00:40:17.720 Like,

00:40:18.360 like,

00:40:18.500 I think that it's,

00:40:19.740 it's more just like

00:40:21.040 people want to

00:40:23.100 hear from somebody,

00:40:25.340 like people want to hear

00:40:26.080 from candidates

00:40:26.760 like

00:40:27.200 are,

00:40:29.360 are authentic

00:40:30.300 and passionate

00:40:31.580 about what they're

00:40:32.120 passionate about.

00:40:33.180 You know,

00:40:33.440 I guess the last thing,

00:40:34.340 one example of this is

00:40:35.980 I get like red state

00:40:37.680 Democrats running,

00:40:38.740 calling me sometimes

00:40:39.560 and like,

00:40:39.860 what should I do?

00:40:40.400 What should I do?

00:40:41.160 Nobody ever listens to me.

00:40:42.260 So we'll see.

00:40:42.820 This will be,

00:40:43.280 maybe they will not,

00:40:44.060 I've sang it on your podcast.

00:40:46.040 I'm like,

00:40:46.540 pick whatever issue it is

00:40:47.740 that you agree with Trump

00:40:48.520 for the most on

00:40:49.240 and talk about that

00:40:50.000 all the time.

00:40:51.500 I'm like,

00:40:51.840 you can be a mainstream

00:40:52.580 Democrat on everybody else,

00:40:53.980 on everything else,

00:40:55.000 but talk about it

00:40:55.860 all the time.

00:40:56.520 Don't just like put it

00:40:57.300 on your page,

00:40:58.400 you know,

00:40:58.760 just maybe like,

00:40:59.940 this is the one thing

00:41:00.720 that Democrats were wrong

00:41:01.700 about that he was right about.

00:41:02.760 And I,

00:41:03.400 and,

00:41:03.800 you know,

00:41:04.380 I think that

00:41:05.500 just as a

00:41:06.360 political strategy

00:41:07.880 seems to me

00:41:10.000 like potentially

00:41:11.260 more fruitful

00:41:12.040 than being very

00:41:13.600 prescriptive

00:41:14.440 about this sort of

00:41:15.400 never-ending fight

00:41:16.620 between the Hillary

00:41:17.300 and the Bernie people,

00:41:18.660 you know?

00:41:19.960 What do you make

00:41:20.940 in that context

00:41:22.660 and so much

00:41:23.380 of the substance

00:41:24.360 and obviously policy

00:41:25.940 that marks

00:41:26.620 a value proposition

00:41:28.020 and a lens

00:41:28.500 to which you see the world

00:41:29.400 and obviously

00:41:31.700 connect with voters

00:41:32.540 in that respect

00:41:33.240 or,

00:41:34.040 or,

00:41:34.580 or repel voters

00:41:36.160 depending on

00:41:36.720 that perspective.

00:41:37.820 What about the

00:41:38.680 asymmetry

00:41:39.500 in terms of

00:41:40.920 ability to communicate

00:41:42.140 that message

00:41:42.940 at scale?

00:41:43.760 Yeah.

00:41:44.520 It's one thing

00:41:44.860 to be out there

00:41:45.380 on a stump speech

00:41:46.160 in a town hall

00:41:46.840 to be Beto

00:41:47.440 is so good

00:41:48.380 in those settings

00:41:49.120 and over and over

00:41:50.100 and rep,

00:41:50.700 rep,

00:41:50.980 rep,

00:41:51.220 rep,

00:41:51.480 rep,

00:41:51.740 rep.

00:41:52.060 It's another

00:41:52.720 what's sunshined

00:41:53.940 and highlighted,

00:41:54.840 you know,

00:41:56.140 with Rachel Maddow

00:41:57.620 versus what's highlighted

00:41:58.800 with Sean Hannity

00:42:00.000 and the asymmetry

00:42:01.720 on the Hannity side

00:42:02.800 of that equation,

00:42:03.500 well,

00:42:03.600 maybe not with Rachel,

00:42:04.500 but she's the anomaly. 1.00

00:42:06.900 But the dominance

00:42:08.320 they have

00:42:09.760 in terms of those

00:42:10.660 propaganda networks

00:42:11.620 to shape shift

00:42:12.380 and to flood

00:42:14.140 the zone

00:42:14.600 in terms

00:42:15.880 of a counter-narrative.

00:42:17.820 What do you make

00:42:18.600 of the communications

00:42:20.500 environment

00:42:21.160 that we're in today?

00:42:22.060 I think I have

00:42:22.840 a little bit

00:42:23.240 of a different view

00:42:24.080 than what some

00:42:24.820 of the others

00:42:25.440 have said

00:42:26.280 on like the

00:42:26.820 Democratic autopsy.

00:42:28.900 I don't think

00:42:29.660 that there's like

00:42:30.280 a huge shortage

00:42:31.220 out there of,

00:42:32.840 and I say this

00:42:33.480 with love,

00:42:34.000 like Democratic propaganda,

00:42:36.120 like pro-Democratic.

00:42:37.200 I don't know.

00:42:37.800 I mean,

00:42:38.060 there's a lot

00:42:38.780 of stuff.

00:42:39.760 Frankly,

00:42:41.120 I think that

00:42:41.900 the Biden administration

00:42:42.700 probably could have

00:42:43.300 used more criticism

00:42:44.540 from inside

00:42:45.260 the left media.

00:42:46.800 Probably would have

00:42:47.400 been a more

00:42:47.880 helpful thing

00:42:48.880 for the party

00:42:49.420 than for the Biden

00:42:50.940 administration

00:42:51.300 to have more

00:42:52.000 cheerleaders.

00:42:55.280 Here's where I think

00:42:56.340 the big miss is.

00:42:57.020 I was just looking

00:42:57.600 at this yesterday

00:42:58.180 where at the end

00:42:58.620 of the year

00:42:58.960 so you see all

00:42:59.400 the lists,

00:43:00.340 like the top

00:43:00.840 10 Spotify

00:43:02.140 podcasts.

00:43:04.680 Neither of us

00:43:05.380 are on there,

00:43:05.900 I've got to tell you.

00:43:06.520 But we were

00:43:09.980 the number

00:43:10.400 four most searched.

00:43:12.120 Okay,

00:43:12.560 congrats.

00:43:13.300 I'll take what I can.

00:43:14.380 Congrats.

00:43:14.800 It's amazing.

00:43:15.520 Congrats.

00:43:15.920 I don't have,

00:43:16.360 I don't have,

00:43:16.960 I'll pull it up

00:43:18.160 when we talk,

00:43:18.660 but here's,

00:43:19.360 and then I'll

00:43:19.780 look at the exact

00:43:20.320 names.

00:43:20.640 But what I observed

00:43:21.500 was that

00:43:23.380 like the,

00:43:26.060 the right-leaning

00:43:27.580 cultural stuff

00:43:29.240 is,

00:43:30.300 dominates,

00:43:31.340 you know?

00:43:31.860 It's not like

00:43:32.840 Fox,

00:43:33.480 right?

00:43:33.700 It's not like

00:43:34.220 the top podcasts

00:43:34.880 are not Fox

00:43:35.860 podcasts.

00:43:36.520 It's not like

00:43:36.840 Sean Hannity's

00:43:37.520 podcast.

00:43:37.980 Nobody listens

00:43:38.480 to that.

00:43:38.780 Here we go.

00:43:39.020 I got it right now.

00:43:40.120 Joe Rogan,

00:43:41.280 Theo Vaughn

00:43:42.000 are one and two.

00:43:43.820 Sean Ryan show,

00:43:45.000 which you'll probably

00:43:45.460 have known.

00:43:45.660 I spent four and

00:43:46.640 out for four hours

00:43:47.480 with him.

00:43:48.560 Remarkable guy.

00:43:49.480 Yeah.

00:43:49.800 Actually,

00:43:50.140 that's right-wing stuff.

00:43:51.380 Huberman Lab,

00:43:52.660 that's right-wing.

00:43:53.300 And then you've got

00:43:53.760 Tucker,

00:43:54.560 which is,

00:43:55.160 which is,

00:43:55.600 well,

00:43:55.860 more like kind of

00:43:56.540 cultural right stuff

00:43:57.560 now.

00:43:57.980 I mean,

00:43:58.100 like a race of 0.62

00:43:58.680 conspiracy land.

00:43:59.740 And Tucker's

00:44:00.060 going so crazy.

00:44:01.220 So there you go.

00:44:02.360 I mean,

00:44:02.560 you look at that

00:44:03.260 and it's like,

00:44:04.480 well,

00:44:04.740 the daily is on there.

00:44:05.820 It's a New York

00:44:06.220 Times podcast.

00:44:07.620 So that's just news

00:44:08.520 left kind of center

00:44:09.380 left news,

00:44:10.020 right?

00:44:10.120 It's reality

00:44:10.700 information.

00:44:12.540 So I just look at

00:44:13.240 that.

00:44:13.440 And my takeaway

00:44:13.940 is,

00:44:14.560 man,

00:44:15.660 during the Obama

00:44:16.640 years,

00:44:17.180 I was on the,

00:44:18.420 I was on the losing

00:44:19.020 side of this one too,

00:44:20.020 because I was a

00:44:20.380 Republican then like the 0.70

00:44:21.320 Democrats dominated the

00:44:22.380 culture,

00:44:22.980 right?

00:44:23.240 Obama's on ESPN doing

00:44:25.180 his pick,

00:44:25.800 doing his March

00:44:26.320 Madness picks and

00:44:27.340 like athletes around

00:44:29.240 and there weren't

00:44:29.760 podcasts weren't like

00:44:30.720 proliferating them.

00:44:31.640 But,

00:44:31.920 you know,

00:44:32.200 if you looked at like

00:44:33.060 what athletes and

00:44:34.120 musicians and,

00:44:35.240 you know,

00:44:35.460 these huge cultural

00:44:36.260 figures,

00:44:37.200 they're all pro Obama.

00:44:38.660 You know,

00:44:38.820 the Republican response

00:44:40.100 to that was like that 0.98

00:44:41.040 pathetic McCain ad that 0.98

00:44:42.880 we did, 0.99

00:44:43.300 where it was like,

00:44:43.640 you're a celebrity,

00:44:44.560 you're too popular.

00:44:45.960 It's like,

00:44:46.300 yeah,

00:44:46.820 that's how you win

00:44:47.640 votes.

00:44:48.740 So,

00:44:49.220 you know,

00:44:49.400 but we had nothing.

00:44:50.380 So that's what we did.

00:44:51.200 We tried to make it seem

00:44:52.080 like you had a big ego.

00:44:53.560 So that is the big

00:44:55.280 shift to me.

00:44:57.380 And,

00:44:57.880 and,

00:44:58.640 you know,

00:44:59.100 I think that.

00:45:00.840 And where was,

00:45:01.380 I mean,

00:45:01.540 Tim,

00:45:01.760 where was that shift?

00:45:02.560 When did that shift,

00:45:03.180 when do you start to see

00:45:03.880 that shift occur?

00:45:04.520 Is it the cult of

00:45:05.160 personality?

00:45:05.960 Is it the shiny object

00:45:07.100 that's Obama and his

00:45:08.400 unique ability to

00:45:09.440 capture that?

00:45:10.360 Is it the shiny object

00:45:11.140 of Trump and his

00:45:11.840 ability to capture

00:45:13.000 that on the,

00:45:13.520 on the flip side,

00:45:14.820 Kennedy Center honors,

00:45:15.720 we can get to that

00:45:16.300 and all the rest.

00:45:17.300 Yeah.

00:45:17.500 A little personality

00:45:18.180 in both,

00:45:19.140 like objectively,

00:45:20.100 Obama,

00:45:21.040 if you just look at

00:45:21.720 the candidates,

00:45:22.200 Obama McCain,

00:45:22.860 Obama,

00:45:23.140 Romney,

00:45:23.700 Trump,

00:45:24.120 Clinton,

00:45:24.540 Trump,

00:45:24.820 Biden,

00:45:25.180 Trump,

00:45:25.480 Kamala,

00:45:25.760 whatever you think

00:45:26.260 about it,

00:45:26.460 it'd be like,

00:45:26.820 who is,

00:45:27.180 who is like the

00:45:27.660 bigger personality?

00:45:29.180 It was Obama,

00:45:29.940 Obama,

00:45:30.280 Trump,

00:45:30.440 Trump,

00:45:30.540 Trump,

00:45:30.560 right?

00:45:31.100 And so the bigger

00:45:32.100 personality won

00:45:32.820 four out of five.

00:45:34.580 So that's part of it.

00:45:35.980 I think that there was

00:45:37.260 also,

00:45:37.820 and you got into this

00:45:38.640 at the beginning of the

00:45:39.860 year when you were

00:45:40.360 trying to,

00:45:41.460 you know,

00:45:41.580 when you talked to

00:45:41.980 Charlie and others

00:45:43.200 of like,

00:45:43.780 where was,

00:45:44.880 I think that there was

00:45:45.520 a big COVID shift.

00:45:47.140 And I think that there

00:45:48.020 was kind of a backlash,

00:45:49.140 a lot of people were in

00:45:49.860 their home,

00:45:50.840 people were frustrated.

00:45:51.740 A lot of this was unfair.

00:45:53.020 So I'm just saying this

00:45:54.460 as an observer,

00:45:55.300 not as a,

00:45:55.820 not as right,

00:45:56.980 because like too many

00:45:57.540 people died of COVID.

00:45:58.340 The Republicans handled

00:45:58.980 COVID poorly.

00:45:59.720 Ron DeSantis was maybe

00:46:00.500 the worst COVID governor

00:46:01.380 besides Andrew Cuomo.

00:46:03.040 Like,

00:46:03.160 so,

00:46:03.640 you know,

00:46:03.880 there are terrible

00:46:04.720 policies,

00:46:06.000 but culturally,

00:46:07.120 there's this sense

00:46:08.440 that like the left

00:46:09.280 was wanting people

00:46:10.640 to stay inside,

00:46:11.580 keeping people

00:46:12.040 from doing stuff.

00:46:12.760 There's a backlash

00:46:13.420 that just happens.

00:46:14.680 Like,

00:46:14.800 and there's a backlash

00:46:15.620 to it.

00:46:16.660 And Rogan was

00:46:17.580 at the forefront of that,

00:46:18.720 but there are both

00:46:19.240 a bunch of others,

00:46:20.260 like a lot of the comedians.

00:46:21.940 And I think you tie that

00:46:23.060 a little bit.

00:46:23.640 This is,

00:46:24.200 you know,

00:46:24.400 I'm not a woke critic.

00:46:27.620 I think a lot of that 1.00

00:46:28.620 is stupid, 1.00

00:46:29.800 frankly, 1.00

00:46:30.280 but like you tie it

00:46:31.660 into the fair or not.

00:46:32.940 Comedians were feeling

00:46:33.940 like also they're being

00:46:35.060 stifled a little bit

00:46:36.060 and they're like,

00:46:36.540 there's the cancel culture.

00:46:38.900 I just,

00:46:39.640 I think that happened.

00:46:40.900 Like whether it was fair

00:46:42.300 or unfair,

00:46:42.700 people felt that way

00:46:44.400 and these new

00:46:46.240 cultural figures emerged

00:46:47.520 who were anti-establishment,

00:46:50.320 you know,

00:46:50.820 going against,

00:46:51.960 you know,

00:46:52.560 who the suits were.

00:46:54.180 Like my whole childhood

00:46:54.860 is my side.

00:46:55.500 The Republicans were the suits,

00:46:57.060 you know,

00:46:57.360 and it's like we flipped,

00:46:58.620 right?

00:46:58.980 We flipped.

00:46:59.540 Now the Democrats

00:47:00.260 are the suits, 0.99

00:47:00.940 the scolds

00:47:01.680 and the establishment

00:47:02.400 and the Republicans

00:47:03.660 became,

00:47:04.600 you know,

00:47:05.460 the ones who are like,

00:47:06.060 go out,

00:47:07.100 you know,

00:47:07.620 who cares about the disease,

00:47:09.360 you know,

00:47:09.600 go out there and party

00:47:10.440 and make out with

00:47:11.080 whoever you want to. 0.95

00:47:12.000 Say your racist jokes

00:47:14.240 and like we can think

00:47:16.300 that's bad as a culture

00:47:17.640 but it happened,

00:47:19.800 right?

00:47:20.120 And so how do the Democrats

00:47:22.660 kind of grab some of that back

00:47:24.240 in a way that it's still

00:47:25.140 core to values,

00:47:26.060 right?

00:47:26.220 How can you be

00:47:27.660 anti-establishment again?

00:47:29.700 How can you engage culturally

00:47:31.040 with whether it's comedians

00:47:33.580 or,

00:47:34.040 you know,

00:47:35.420 fitness

00:47:35.920 or across sports,

00:47:37.880 like across sports.

00:47:38.440 Pablo,

00:47:38.860 my buddy Pablo Torre

00:47:39.600 is doing this

00:47:40.160 kind of a lefty sport,

00:47:41.500 you know,

00:47:41.800 in space.

00:47:42.300 Like there's,

00:47:43.200 how do you do it?

00:47:44.140 How do you,

00:47:44.660 and I think to me,

00:47:47.220 if like the anti-Mega movement

00:47:50.220 broadly defined,

00:47:51.480 like that is our challenge

00:47:53.060 more than like,

00:47:54.300 let's have another

00:47:56.080 left-wing propaganda network.

00:47:58.400 I think it's,

00:47:59.360 I think we're fine

00:47:59.920 on that front.

00:48:00.820 Hey there,

00:48:01.720 Dr. Jesse Mills here.

00:48:02.940 I'm the director

00:48:03.480 of the men's clinic

00:48:04.160 at UCLA Health

00:48:05.140 and I want to tell you

00:48:06.100 about my new podcast

00:48:07.120 called The Mailroom.

00:48:08.160 And I'm Jordan,

00:48:09.240 the show's producer.

00:48:10.440 And like a lot of guys,

00:48:11.640 I haven't been to the doctor

00:48:12.800 in many years.

00:48:14.520 I'll be asking the questions

00:48:15.640 we probably should be asking,

00:48:17.280 but aren't.

00:48:18.020 Because guys usually

00:48:18.960 don't go to the doctor

00:48:19.880 unless a piece of their face

00:48:20.920 is hanging off

00:48:21.540 or they've broken a bone.

00:48:22.960 Depends which bone.

00:48:24.340 Well,

00:48:24.620 that's true.

00:48:25.560 Every week,

00:48:26.100 we're breaking down

00:48:26.720 the unique world

00:48:27.600 of men's health,

00:48:28.560 from testosterone

00:48:29.220 and fitness

00:48:29.800 to diets and fertility

00:48:31.120 and things that happen

00:48:33.020 in the bedroom.

00:48:34.540 You mean sleep?

00:48:35.720 Yeah,

00:48:36.040 something like that,

00:48:36.780 Jordan.

00:48:37.460 We'll talk science

00:48:38.500 without the jargon

00:48:39.320 and get you real answers

00:48:40.460 to the stuff

00:48:41.040 you actually wonder about.

00:48:42.560 It's going to be fun,

00:48:43.580 whether you're 27,

00:48:44.800 97,

00:48:45.540 or somewhere in between.

00:48:47.100 Men's Health is about 0.97

00:48:47.940 more than six packs

00:48:48.800 and supplements.

00:48:49.600 It's about energy,

00:48:51.100 confidence,

00:48:51.840 and connection.

00:48:52.940 We don't just want you

00:48:53.760 to live longer,

00:48:54.820 we want you to live better.

00:48:56.380 So check out The Mailroom

00:48:57.420 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:48:58.900 Apple Podcasts,

00:49:00.000 or wherever you get

00:49:00.840 your favorite shows.

00:49:01.740 Dad had the strong belief

00:49:05.360 that the devil

00:49:06.100 was attacking us.

00:49:07.620 Two brothers,

00:49:08.580 one devout household,

00:49:10.100 two radically different paths.

00:49:12.180 Gabe Ortiz became

00:49:13.080 one of the highest-ranking

00:49:14.260 law enforcement officers

00:49:15.240 in Texas.

00:49:16.220 32 years,

00:49:17.260 total law enforcement experience.

00:49:18.920 But his brother Larry,

00:49:20.040 he stayed behind

00:49:20.860 and built an entirely

00:49:22.060 different legacy.

00:49:23.200 He was the head

00:49:24.380 of this gang

00:49:25.420 and nobody was going

00:49:26.760 to tell him what to do.

00:49:27.760 He's going to push

00:49:28.180 that line for the cause.

00:49:29.520 Took us under his wing

00:49:30.540 and showed us the game,

00:49:32.640 as they call it.

00:49:33.920 When Larry is murdered,

00:49:35.060 Gabe is forced to confront

00:49:36.200 the past he tried

00:49:37.160 to leave behind

00:49:37.920 and uncover secrets

00:49:39.320 he never saw coming.

00:49:40.720 My dad had a whole

00:49:42.060 another life

00:49:42.700 that we never knew about.

00:49:44.900 Like, my mom started

00:49:45.880 screaming my dad's name

00:49:47.620 and I just heard

00:49:48.280 one gunshot.

00:49:50.280 The Brothers Ortiz

00:49:51.540 is a gripping,

00:49:52.460 true story about faith,

00:49:53.740 family,

00:49:54.240 and how two lives

00:49:55.080 can drift so far apart

00:49:56.300 and collide

00:49:57.040 in the most devastating way.

00:49:59.020 Listen to The Brothers Ortiz

00:50:00.200 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:50:01.660 Apple Podcasts,

00:50:02.600 or wherever you get

00:50:03.660 your podcasts.

00:50:08.340 What up, y'all?

00:50:09.280 It's your boy,

00:50:09.960 Kev On Stage.

00:50:10.700 I want to tell you

00:50:11.220 about my new podcast

00:50:12.200 called Not My Best Moment,

00:50:14.200 where I talk to artists,

00:50:15.540 athletes, entertainers,

00:50:16.760 creators, friends,

00:50:18.260 people I admire

00:50:19.220 who had massive success

00:50:20.860 about their massive failures.

00:50:22.940 What did they mess up on?

00:50:24.240 What is their heartbreak?

00:50:25.240 And what did they learn

00:50:26.080 from it?

00:50:26.400 I got judged horribly.

00:50:29.280 The judges were like, 1.00

00:50:30.020 you're trash. 1.00

00:50:31.140 I don't know how you got 1.00

00:50:31.900 on the show.

00:50:32.880 Boo.

00:50:33.320 Somebody had tomatoes.

00:50:34.320 No, I'm kidding.

00:50:34.960 But if they had tomatoes,

00:50:36.160 they would have thrown

00:50:36.600 the tomatoes.

00:50:37.660 Let's be honest.

00:50:38.500 We've all had those moments

00:50:40.100 we'd rather forget.

00:50:41.260 We bumped our head.

00:50:42.240 We made a mistake.

00:50:43.220 The deal fell through.

00:50:44.740 We're embarrassed.

00:50:46.000 We failed.

00:50:47.200 But this podcast

00:50:47.840 is about that

00:50:48.680 and how we made it through.

00:50:50.620 So when they sat me down,

00:50:52.700 they were kind of like,

00:50:53.480 we got into the small talk

00:50:54.540 and they were just like,

00:50:55.260 so what do you got?

00:50:55.820 What ideas?

00:50:56.540 And I was like,

00:50:57.020 oh, no.

00:50:58.540 What?

00:50:59.780 Check out Not My Best Moment

00:51:01.040 with me, Kev on stage

00:51:02.140 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:51:03.840 Apple Podcasts,

00:51:05.040 YouTube,

00:51:05.580 or wherever you get

00:51:06.440 your podcasts.

00:51:08.020 Hey, everybody.

00:51:09.060 It's Chuck and Josh

00:51:09.800 from the Stuff You Should Know podcast

00:51:11.120 and it's that time of year again

00:51:12.660 when we knuckle down

00:51:13.540 to do our annual holiday episodes.

00:51:15.200 We collected our best past

00:51:17.200 classic holiday episodes

00:51:18.460 and compiled them

00:51:19.500 into a 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist

00:51:21.920 that the whole family can enjoy.

00:51:24.060 That's right.

00:51:24.480 Maybe you missed it

00:51:25.060 the first time we detailed

00:51:26.060 the history of Beanie Babies,

00:51:27.580 Monopoly,

00:51:28.160 or Yo-Yos,

00:51:28.980 and a whole lot more.

00:51:30.040 So listen to the

00:51:30.920 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist

00:51:32.760 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:51:34.260 Apple Podcasts,

00:51:35.200 or wherever you get

00:51:35.940 your podcasts.

00:51:37.960 May 24th, 1990.

00:51:40.700 A pipe bomb explodes

00:51:42.260 in the front seat

00:51:43.300 of environmental activist

00:51:44.720 Judy Berry's car.

00:51:46.380 I knew it was a bomb

00:51:47.120 the second that it exploded.

00:51:48.540 I felt it ripped through me

00:51:49.740 with just a force

00:51:51.420 more powerful and terrible

00:51:53.200 than anything

00:51:53.960 that I could describe.

00:51:55.540 In Season 2 of Rip Current,

00:51:57.260 we ask,

00:51:58.040 who tried to kill Judy Berry

00:52:00.040 and why?

00:52:01.800 She received death threats

00:52:02.860 before the bombing.

00:52:04.180 She received more threats

00:52:05.120 after the bombing.

00:52:06.100 The man and woman

00:52:06.960 who were heard

00:52:07.780 had planned to lead

00:52:08.740 a summer of militant protest

00:52:10.240 against logging practices

00:52:11.700 in Northern California.

00:52:12.980 They were climbing trees

00:52:14.420 and they were sabotaging

00:52:15.920 logging equipment

00:52:16.760 in the woods.

00:52:17.620 The timber industry,

00:52:19.160 I mean,

00:52:19.400 it was the number one

00:52:20.360 industry in the area,

00:52:21.480 but more than it was

00:52:22.080 the culture,

00:52:22.700 it was the way of life.

00:52:24.480 I think that this is

00:52:25.220 a deliberate attempt

00:52:25.980 to sabotage our movement.

00:52:27.900 Episodes of Rip Current

00:52:28.900 Season 2 are available now.

00:52:31.360 Listen on the iHeartRadio app,

00:52:33.260 Apple Podcasts,

00:52:34.460 or wherever you get

00:52:35.480 your podcasts.

00:52:36.380 It's interesting.

00:52:39.400 By the way,

00:52:40.420 I appreciate that

00:52:41.480 just sort of

00:52:41.900 foundational perspective

00:52:42.900 that it's not necessarily

00:52:44.080 about a platform

00:52:46.020 or a network necessarily

00:52:47.240 just sort of

00:52:47.920 amping up

00:52:48.660 our talking points,

00:52:50.440 that it's a deeper

00:52:51.320 cultural thing.

00:52:51.860 It's interesting.

00:52:52.360 When I had Charlie Kirk

00:52:53.480 on that show,

00:52:54.320 he made the point

00:52:55.100 that many have made,

00:52:56.540 but he really reinforced it

00:52:57.920 and it gets to the next point

00:52:59.320 I want to bring up with you.

00:53:00.480 He talked about,

00:53:01.340 you know,

00:53:01.620 politics,

00:53:02.200 this notion of being

00:53:02.880 downstream from culture,

00:53:04.220 but he said it is culture

00:53:05.300 and it had morphed

00:53:06.640 and it had merged

00:53:07.240 and that extended

00:53:08.520 in a conversation

00:53:09.360 we had about a year ago

00:53:11.200 to the issue of men and boys

00:53:12.780 and it's an issue

00:53:13.620 I know you focused a lot on

00:53:15.800 and I was actually surprised.

00:53:17.660 I didn't fully appreciate

00:53:18.880 how much time and energy

00:53:20.260 had focused on

00:53:20.960 Turning Point USA

00:53:21.800 and how you actually

00:53:23.060 had been to

00:53:23.760 some of Charlie's events

00:53:25.440 and you saw this thing emerging.

00:53:27.460 You certainly absorbed it.

00:53:28.760 Obviously,

00:53:29.200 the rest of us woke up to it

00:53:30.860 and I hope the Democratic Party

00:53:32.400 is waking up to it

00:53:34.100 multi-ethnic.

00:53:35.280 It's not just white men,

00:53:36.480 but young folks,

00:53:37.980 Galloway,

00:53:38.680 others,

00:53:39.100 Richard Reeves,

00:53:39.700 so many that have been writing,

00:53:41.080 talking about this.

00:53:42.040 We've been highlighting this as well

00:53:43.480 and doing a lot

00:53:44.200 in my day job as governor

00:53:45.620 to address this issue,

00:53:46.600 but talk to me a little bit

00:53:47.820 about what you've seen

00:53:49.040 in this space

00:53:49.760 and how we can address

00:53:51.900 that issue

00:53:52.460 in the spirit

00:53:53.140 of our conversation

00:53:54.940 just a moment ago as well.

00:53:56.240 Yeah.

00:53:57.160 Yeah, I did.

00:53:57.780 Every year I went at the end,

00:53:58.860 I think I'm going to skip it this year,

00:53:59.800 I just can't take it,

00:54:00.480 but I went to their year-end fest,

00:54:03.040 which is called America Fest,

00:54:04.260 which is a turning point festival.

00:54:07.060 Have you ever seen the movie

00:54:07.660 Catch Me If You Can?

00:54:09.060 Yeah.

00:54:10.000 I had a running,

00:54:11.160 a little joke with Charlie

00:54:12.820 about how,

00:54:13.860 like,

00:54:14.040 it was like Tom,

00:54:14.740 Hanks,

00:54:15.000 and Leo,

00:54:15.660 like,

00:54:15.860 we meet every Christmas.

00:54:17.620 It's like we're on opposite sides.

00:54:19.460 I don't know who was the cop

00:54:20.800 and who was the thief.

00:54:22.180 I guess maybe I was the cop

00:54:23.120 and he was the thief, 0.62

00:54:23.820 but either way,

00:54:25.040 it was like every Christmas,

00:54:26.300 like the week before Christmas,

00:54:27.360 is they have that festival

00:54:28.040 and I went to Arizona

00:54:28.800 and I usually write an article about it,

00:54:31.520 but usually it was like

00:54:32.320 to watch and consume and talk

00:54:33.960 and I could talk to the teen

00:54:35.560 and be like,

00:54:36.020 what is happening?

00:54:36.500 Like,

00:54:36.640 why are you coming to here?

00:54:37.940 Because it was very different

00:54:38.820 than me being a young conservative.

00:54:40.900 Like,

00:54:41.300 I was an outlier.

00:54:42.920 I was the Michael J. Fox,

00:54:44.740 you know,

00:54:45.120 Alex P. Keaton,

00:54:46.480 you know,

00:54:46.960 like a little briefcase

00:54:47.760 and the blue blazer

00:54:48.680 and like that was

00:54:49.460 high school conservatives

00:54:51.020 when I was growing up.

00:54:52.540 High school conservatives now,

00:54:53.880 like,

00:54:54.380 TPSA events,

00:54:55.360 there was like,

00:54:55.760 there were like basically

00:54:56.580 two types of people there.

00:54:57.540 One was there was a very

00:54:58.540 Christian church revival element to it

00:55:01.160 and then there was also like

00:55:02.520 kind of a fratty party element to it

00:55:04.360 and maybe a little intermingling

00:55:05.740 between the two,

00:55:06.580 but like both of those were coming

00:55:08.080 and they were having fun.

00:55:10.100 Like,

00:55:10.520 they had fun

00:55:11.200 at those festivals

00:55:12.500 every year

00:55:13.020 at the end of the year.

00:55:13.660 I never had fun

00:55:14.280 at a single CPAC

00:55:15.160 when I was in college.

00:55:16.380 I never went to a single

00:55:17.260 college Republican event

00:55:18.240 that was fun.

00:55:19.780 Those guys were having fun

00:55:21.000 and women, 1.00

00:55:21.980 but it was a lot,

00:55:23.460 men,

00:55:23.680 we should just observe.

00:55:25.760 And so,

00:55:26.640 okay,

00:55:27.740 what is happening with that?

00:55:29.220 And like,

00:55:29.860 and I would ask them,

00:55:31.380 a lot of those guys,

00:55:32.600 like,

00:55:32.960 what are the issues

00:55:34.040 that brought you to this?

00:55:35.740 And without a doubt,

00:55:36.940 and the old three-legged Reagan stool

00:55:38.940 for people who don't know

00:55:39.920 from when I was a kid

00:55:40.620 was,

00:55:41.320 you know,

00:55:41.600 social conservative,

00:55:42.720 fiscal conservative,

00:55:43.680 foreign policy,

00:55:44.320 strong military tax cuts

00:55:45.680 and pro-life

00:55:46.360 to short change.

00:55:47.460 Like those would be the three

00:55:48.240 that you'd hear most.

00:55:49.360 Yeah,

00:55:50.280 this group,

00:55:51.080 opposite.

00:55:52.360 Too many wars.

00:55:53.180 I don't want to go

00:55:53.780 into wars anymore.

00:55:55.200 Anti-woke,

00:55:56.540 strong,

00:55:57.400 you know,

00:55:57.840 anti-immigrant.

00:55:58.980 Some of the white 0.68

00:55:59.780 replacement stuff

00:56:00.660 gets into the scarier stuff.

00:56:02.060 But like,

00:56:02.660 that's what they would say,

00:56:03.980 right?

00:56:04.140 Like those are the things

00:56:04.840 that they cared about.

00:56:05.500 It wasn't cutting red tape,

00:56:06.720 cutting taxes,

00:56:07.900 government efficiency.

00:56:09.140 There's a little bit

00:56:09.820 of pro-life stuff

00:56:10.740 that wasn't really,

00:56:12.340 you know,

00:56:13.140 the other,

00:56:14.420 you know,

00:56:14.820 guns doesn't really come up

00:56:16.100 and certainly wasn't

00:56:17.060 strong military.

00:56:17.780 It's the opposite.

00:56:18.940 And to me,

00:56:19.560 that's like,

00:56:19.960 okay,

00:56:21.440 that needs to tell you something

00:56:23.060 if you're on the other side

00:56:23.900 of that.

00:56:24.220 All right,

00:56:24.420 well,

00:56:24.580 how can you reach those guys?

00:56:26.240 The Democrats aren't going

00:56:27.140 to reach the people

00:56:27.740 that are concerned

00:56:28.700 about the diversifying country.

00:56:30.300 Okay,

00:56:30.500 like that,

00:56:31.020 some of those people

00:56:31.580 are out of reach.

00:56:32.500 But the other group,

00:56:33.580 like guys,

00:56:34.400 like young men 0.95

00:56:35.240 who are just feeling,

00:56:36.580 I should have said

00:56:37.300 financial insecurity,

00:56:38.440 getting jobs and stuff.

00:56:39.360 Young men also.

00:56:40.740 Young men who are feeling

00:56:41.620 like it's hard for them

00:56:42.540 to go find a job

00:56:43.300 outside of college,

00:56:44.160 who feel like,

00:56:45.800 you know,

00:56:46.940 the establishment

00:56:48.760 doesn't really care

00:56:49.540 about them anymore

00:56:50.860 and they only care

00:56:52.040 about every other

00:56:53.020 demographic group

00:56:53.740 except them.

00:56:54.700 They're worried

00:56:55.300 about going off to war.

00:56:56.480 They don't want

00:56:56.740 to be sent off to war.

00:56:58.440 It feels like

00:56:58.860 the Democratic Party

00:56:59.580 should have a message

00:57:00.200 for that person.

00:57:01.580 Like,

00:57:01.780 you know what I mean?

00:57:02.360 Like they're not,

00:57:03.520 like some of them

00:57:04.260 are unreachable.

00:57:05.160 You know,

00:57:05.340 I hear from Democrats

00:57:06.420 now,

00:57:06.660 like why should we do this?

00:57:08.260 Like why talk

00:57:08.900 to the Charlie Kirk people?

00:57:09.840 Who cares?

00:57:10.320 They're not reachable.

00:57:10.880 It's like,

00:57:11.140 no,

00:57:11.960 there's some of those kids

00:57:13.060 or the red hat kids

00:57:14.140 that are going

00:57:14.440 to be mega,

00:57:15.160 you know,

00:57:15.480 some of them

00:57:15.880 are unreachable,

00:57:16.440 obviously,

00:57:16.940 but there is a category

00:57:18.140 of young men out there

00:57:19.480 that feels,

00:57:20.380 yeah,

00:57:20.940 economically insecure.

00:57:22.160 It feels like

00:57:22.520 they're not being heard

00:57:23.420 and they don't like

00:57:25.440 the foreign wars

00:57:26.620 and it's not hard.

00:57:30.320 It feels like,

00:57:31.280 you know,

00:57:33.260 a cloned Obama

00:57:34.140 could reach that person.

00:57:35.680 Like,

00:57:35.820 you know,

00:57:36.320 none of that

00:57:37.820 is really that far away

00:57:39.000 from what Obama's

00:57:39.800 message was.

00:57:41.900 So,

00:57:42.740 I don't know.

00:57:43.520 I think that

00:57:44.380 they're more reachable

00:57:45.400 than people think

00:57:46.160 and a lot of it

00:57:47.440 is based on effort.

00:57:48.880 It's based on not

00:57:49.760 actively alienating them

00:57:51.200 and maybe,

00:57:54.200 you know,

00:57:54.920 thinking about

00:57:55.780 the ways in which

00:57:57.160 the Democratic Party's

00:57:58.120 policies have,

00:57:58.900 you know,

00:57:59.940 gotten them out of step

00:58:00.700 with them.

00:58:01.040 have you seen anything

00:58:03.320 comparable

00:58:05.220 emerging

00:58:06.340 from the prism

00:58:08.040 of the left

00:58:09.420 or even the center left?

00:58:11.020 I mean,

00:58:11.440 is there a,

00:58:12.620 anything not even

00:58:13.500 close,

00:58:14.280 analogous to what

00:58:15.180 Turning Point is doing,

00:58:16.400 turning up and turning on

00:58:17.460 these conversations

00:58:19.420 and people

00:58:20.140 that events?

00:58:21.280 No.

00:58:21.980 And I don't,

00:58:22.820 and you see the energy

00:58:24.140 on the left.

00:58:24.560 I guess

00:58:24.880 this is kind of

00:58:26.040 a weird comp,

00:58:27.040 but the closest one

00:58:27.760 I could think of

00:58:28.520 really would have been

00:58:29.400 the Gaza protests.

00:58:31.060 Like that was engaging

00:58:32.080 a lot of young people.

00:58:32.720 That wasn't really

00:58:33.040 the Democratic Party,

00:58:33.880 but that would be

00:58:34.140 a left thing

00:58:34.880 that was engaging

00:58:35.560 young people.

00:58:36.400 It wasn't like a group

00:58:37.580 or an event.

00:58:38.680 But I guess my point

00:58:39.320 is like,

00:58:40.340 what would be an,

00:58:41.420 you know,

00:58:42.100 what would be a comp

00:58:43.060 of something

00:58:43.900 where it's like,

00:58:44.540 okay,

00:58:45.000 you have

00:58:46.420 Democratic speakers

00:58:48.260 and media personalities

00:58:50.000 and organizers

00:58:51.280 come together

00:58:52.900 and a bunch of

00:58:54.220 young people meet

00:58:55.200 and they gather

00:58:56.740 and they have fellowship 1.00

00:58:57.860 and they have sex 0.92

00:58:59.800 probably, 0.81

00:59:00.400 like whatever,

00:59:01.400 they have fun.

00:59:02.700 Like what would be,

00:59:03.780 I mean,

00:59:04.280 this is O'Ron's campaign.

00:59:05.540 There's a little bit

00:59:05.880 of that, right?

00:59:06.320 Like,

00:59:06.580 but I don't,

00:59:07.420 I don't see any group.

00:59:08.480 Yeah, it's an original

00:59:09.700 campaign, right?

00:59:10.520 Yeah,

00:59:10.700 but I don't see anybody

00:59:11.740 trying to do that.

00:59:12.780 And in the last article

00:59:13.700 I wrote about last year's

00:59:14.720 turning point,

00:59:15.660 you know,

00:59:16.920 it was,

00:59:17.600 a lot of it was

00:59:18.680 making fun of

00:59:19.700 some of the extreme

00:59:20.380 speakers they had

00:59:21.240 and the insanity of it

00:59:23.180 and the tenuousness

00:59:24.140 of the coalition.

00:59:24.780 But the very beginning

00:59:25.400 of the article,

00:59:25.780 I just said,

00:59:26.320 before I make fun

00:59:27.180 of these guys,

00:59:27.940 you have to just

00:59:29.560 acknowledge that

00:59:30.740 what they're doing here

00:59:31.580 is there's something

00:59:32.260 that they're doing here

00:59:33.120 and actually gathering

00:59:35.180 and organizing

00:59:35.840 and there's not

00:59:38.840 a comp on the left.

00:59:41.300 No,

00:59:41.720 and yeah,

00:59:42.440 anyway,

00:59:42.780 well,

00:59:43.180 again,

00:59:43.580 we can dive

00:59:44.420 much deeper into this,

00:59:45.440 but to me,

00:59:46.120 it's code red.

00:59:46.900 I mean,

00:59:47.120 break the glass.

00:59:47.900 If it was any,

00:59:48.640 it's been said by others,

00:59:49.680 but it's absolutely true.

00:59:50.600 If this was any other,

00:59:51.400 and you implied it

00:59:52.380 as it relates

00:59:53.000 to Democrats

00:59:53.600 that seem to have

00:59:54.300 a solution

00:59:54.720 to every problem

00:59:55.580 and every constituency,

00:59:56.800 but for whatever reason,

00:59:58.060 young men,

00:59:59.040 we feel like that's

01:00:00.140 verboten because

01:00:01.560 somehow it's taking away,

01:00:02.840 it's somehow

01:00:03.180 scarcity mindset

01:00:04.560 that it's going to

01:00:05.300 somehow take away

01:00:06.280 from our advocacy

01:00:07.460 for our women and girls.

01:00:08.760 When in fact,

01:00:09.960 advocacy for women

01:00:10.780 and girls, 0.92

01:00:11.580 you ask any mother,

01:00:13.080 ask my wife, 1.00

01:00:14.660 we have two young boys.

01:00:16.020 I mean,

01:00:16.200 this is for moms,

01:00:17.560 this is one of the

01:00:18.300 toughest issues

01:00:19.080 they're coming to grips

01:00:20.360 with what's happening

01:00:21.320 with my boys,

01:00:22.480 what's happening

01:00:23.000 with these young men

01:00:24.080 in particular.

01:00:25.680 Yeah.

01:00:26.100 Whether it's going

01:00:26.760 to roll back progress,

01:00:27.720 which again,

01:00:28.140 I understand,

01:00:28.780 either for women

01:00:29.900 or for black and brown men.

01:00:33.140 And it's just,

01:00:34.360 I just don't think

01:00:36.840 that's the place

01:00:38.240 that we're in right now.

01:00:39.440 Like there's been a lot,

01:00:40.420 like absolutely,

01:00:41.220 it's great

01:00:41.640 that there's been

01:00:42.060 a lot of progress.

01:00:42.740 You just look at

01:00:43.340 the college attainment

01:00:45.080 right now

01:00:45.520 and like women 0.95

01:00:46.020 are doing better.

01:00:47.360 You know,

01:00:47.920 they just are.

01:00:48.900 And that's okay.

01:00:49.460 We're not,

01:00:50.120 it doesn't mean

01:00:51.220 that you want,

01:00:52.480 you know,

01:00:52.860 I'm not advocating

01:00:53.660 for trad marriage,

01:00:56.260 like sending women back, 0.93

01:00:57.460 but it's just like,

01:00:58.040 okay,

01:00:58.420 how can you say

01:00:59.860 to,

01:01:00.980 you know,

01:01:01.800 you know,

01:01:02.060 figure out

01:01:02.380 how to communicate

01:01:03.100 to young men,

01:01:05.660 particularly,

01:01:06.840 you know,

01:01:07.100 I feel like a lot

01:01:07.780 of times this conversation

01:01:08.600 is like about

01:01:09.200 what's happening

01:01:09.660 at elite schools.

01:01:10.760 And I don't know

01:01:11.420 about you,

01:01:11.860 but I could not 1.00

01:01:12.360 give a fuck less 0.94

01:01:13.060 about what's happening 0.95

01:01:13.720 at Harvard and Yale

01:01:14.780 and like the kid.

01:01:17.040 960 SAT, buddy.

01:01:18.140 So trust me.

01:01:19.100 I'm going to pull down

01:01:20.540 on that.

01:01:21.140 All right.

01:01:21.360 It's an odd story

01:01:22.260 about the kid

01:01:23.080 who just missed

01:01:23.860 the,

01:01:24.100 who was waitlisted

01:01:24.800 at Yale

01:01:25.400 and,

01:01:25.800 you know,

01:01:26.320 has to go to Kenyon

01:01:27.480 instead.

01:01:27.860 It's like that,

01:01:28.620 that kid is going

01:01:29.240 to be fine.

01:01:29.820 All right.

01:01:30.160 Like that's not

01:01:30.780 what you're worried

01:01:31.340 about.

01:01:31.580 It's like,

01:01:32.520 it's,

01:01:32.880 it's the next one.

01:01:33.620 And at that next group,

01:01:34.740 it's a lot,

01:01:35.520 it is a diverse group.

01:01:36.660 It's like,

01:01:37.340 it's,

01:01:37.680 it's young men,

01:01:38.360 it's a state school,

01:01:39.340 community college,

01:01:40.000 like that type

01:01:40.780 of young man

01:01:42.080 who feels like really

01:01:43.260 like that they,

01:01:44.580 that they're lost

01:01:46.000 right now.

01:01:46.600 And the last thing

01:01:47.840 you want to do,

01:01:48.600 like the,

01:01:49.280 what's the worst case scenario

01:01:50.500 that you thrust

01:01:52.280 these guys

01:01:52.960 into the arms

01:01:54.140 of people

01:01:55.080 who are selling

01:01:55.600 them snake oil,

01:01:56.420 like to Nick Fuentes

01:01:58.460 or any of those guys.

01:01:59.780 Is that what we want?

01:02:00.600 Like to,

01:02:01.160 to not to,

01:02:02.320 you know,

01:02:02.720 be on our high horse

01:02:03.900 while you have

01:02:05.360 a whole generation

01:02:06.160 of young men

01:02:06.920 that are attracted

01:02:07.820 to a,

01:02:08.840 you know,

01:02:09.500 racist, 0.78

01:02:10.320 sexist ideology

01:02:11.700 as,

01:02:12.500 as their outlet

01:02:13.360 for their feeling

01:02:14.860 of,

01:02:15.200 of hopelessness.

01:02:16.840 I don't think

01:02:17.560 anybody wants that.

01:02:18.500 So let's,

01:02:18.980 let's not do it.

01:02:20.740 Signed up to,

01:02:21.700 you know,

01:02:21.960 the Andrew Tate

01:02:23.240 and his brother's

01:02:24.300 hustlers university

01:02:25.520 or something.

01:02:26.220 Yeah.

01:02:26.560 You know,

01:02:26.800 I mean,

01:02:27.020 it's exactly who took over

01:02:28.220 and I think you're right.

01:02:29.260 The,

01:02:29.500 I mean,

01:02:29.760 sort of the origin,

01:02:30.500 it's not the origin story,

01:02:31.520 but it was certainly

01:02:32.400 things accelerated

01:02:33.800 pretty significantly

01:02:34.700 during COVID.

01:02:35.780 So many people online,

01:02:37.720 all those algorithms

01:02:38.880 sort of reinforcing

01:02:39.960 and that's how,

01:02:41.140 I mean,

01:02:41.320 I,

01:02:41.460 I have my,

01:02:42.180 my young son

01:02:42.920 and it's a story

01:02:44.600 that I share,

01:02:45.260 but when he found out

01:02:46.620 Charlie Kirk was coming

01:02:47.520 on the podcast,

01:02:48.540 he wanted to stay home

01:02:49.540 from school.

01:02:50.360 Not because he loved him.

01:02:51.500 He just knew all about him

01:02:52.740 because all his friends,

01:02:54.400 that age cohort,

01:02:55.960 that was everything

01:02:56.740 on their YouTube.

01:02:57.760 What else does he watch?

01:02:58.880 Do you know?

01:02:59.180 Like what are the other stuff?

01:03:00.020 I mean,

01:03:00.600 it just,

01:03:01.020 it started with the games

01:03:02.360 and by the way,

01:03:03.460 why I went down

01:03:04.080 to TwitchCon myself

01:03:05.440 and that's why we've had

01:03:06.520 a lot of gamers on

01:03:07.840 to talk about

01:03:08.540 what's really happening

01:03:09.640 with young folks

01:03:10.440 and how they're being socially,

01:03:12.340 how they,

01:03:12.760 they're socially isolated,

01:03:14.020 but it's not about the gaming.

01:03:15.300 It's not about the platforms.

01:03:16.460 It's about these underlying issues

01:03:17.960 that we haven't substantively addressed

01:03:20.240 and to the extent you're right,

01:03:21.940 that grievance is exploited

01:03:23.980 by some on the right.

01:03:25.620 And of course,

01:03:26.060 Trump was able to like,

01:03:27.080 toally take advantage of that. 0.56

01:03:28.680 And just haven't tried.

01:03:29.600 Like,

01:03:29.740 I'm glad you're doing

01:03:30.580 the streamer stuff.

01:03:31.240 This is like a blind spot for me.

01:03:32.420 You know,

01:03:32.560 I can only do what I can do,

01:03:33.860 right?

01:03:34.000 I can hang with the barstool.

01:03:35.040 You got to do Fortnite Fridays with me.

01:03:36.920 Yeah,

01:03:37.220 I can do the comedy bros.

01:03:38.700 I don't,

01:03:39.040 I can't do Fortnite Friday.

01:03:40.120 Everybody's got a role to play.

01:03:41.820 Yeah,

01:03:42.020 you can do Fortnite Fridays.

01:03:44.060 But like,

01:03:44.880 so Theo Vaughn

01:03:45.820 is one of these guys,

01:03:46.700 kind of comedian,

01:03:47.260 probably has the real roads,

01:03:48.120 road rules.

01:03:49.060 He's Louisiana.

01:03:50.060 We have a mutual friend.

01:03:51.040 I've met him a couple of times.

01:03:52.720 Like,

01:03:52.980 the idea that Theo Vaughn

01:03:55.180 is a Republican voter

01:03:57.220 is crazy. 0.99

01:03:58.060 Like,

01:03:58.200 there's no reason for this.

01:03:59.660 Like,

01:03:59.900 he is just like,

01:04:01.200 he's a bro

01:04:02.060 that wants to live his life

01:04:03.620 and like,

01:04:04.560 not have people get on his back.

01:04:06.140 And he is like,

01:04:06.920 what he's concerned about.

01:04:08.760 Yeah,

01:04:09.240 it's healthcare issues in his life.

01:04:10.720 He's concerned about like,

01:04:11.760 or not personally,

01:04:12.580 but the family,

01:04:13.260 like,

01:04:13.520 like the way that big pharma

01:04:14.840 has taken advantage of,

01:04:17.100 of people.

01:04:17.600 And he's seen people

01:04:18.200 have healthcare bill issues.

01:04:20.220 And,

01:04:20.700 you know,

01:04:21.020 he doesn't,

01:04:22.060 he is totally non-ideological.

01:04:25.420 Like,

01:04:25.560 but the Republicans tried.

01:04:27.760 Trump on his podcast,

01:04:29.260 JD did,

01:04:30.160 RFK did,

01:04:30.940 he's a Republican now.

01:04:32.220 And they like,

01:04:33.400 you know,

01:04:34.400 worked on him.

01:04:34.980 And we're still negotiating

01:04:35.780 the terms of which questions

01:04:37.060 were going to be asked.

01:04:38.100 Is it going to be only 45 minutes

01:04:39.600 and three to four hours?

01:04:40.880 Made the case to him.

01:04:42.180 And it's like,

01:04:42.780 and now,

01:04:43.460 you know,

01:04:43.920 they're like,

01:04:44.400 but he's like hanging out

01:04:45.600 with Trump and Ivanka

01:04:47.760 and Jared.

01:04:48.360 It's just like,

01:04:48.900 why?

01:04:49.400 Like,

01:04:49.600 this didn't have to,

01:04:50.720 it doesn't have to be like this.

01:04:51.980 It's like,

01:04:52.240 these people are not ideological.

01:04:54.040 They have,

01:04:54.460 they have concerns

01:04:55.360 that are very well addressable

01:04:57.500 by people that have liberal values

01:04:59.780 if they just were communicated

01:05:02.240 in a certain way and tried.

01:05:03.520 And it's,

01:05:03.780 I go back to the thing

01:05:04.540 I said at the top.

01:05:05.180 It's like,

01:05:06.140 just use the same lessons

01:05:07.440 you get from reaching out

01:05:08.240 to any,

01:05:08.980 not that they're,

01:05:09.560 not that he's a marginalized group,

01:05:10.680 but reaching out

01:05:11.220 to any other group.

01:05:12.180 You know,

01:05:12.600 it's just like,

01:05:13.840 showing up matters.

01:05:15.520 Representation matters.

01:05:16.280 Just do like,

01:05:17.400 same for these guys.

01:05:19.400 Couldn't agree more.

01:05:19.920 And it's,

01:05:20.360 it's just important.

01:05:21.140 And I want to just pull

01:05:22.780 one more contemporary thread

01:05:24.620 in this conversation,

01:05:25.700 but it's important

01:05:26.780 just to remind everybody

01:05:27.880 that the trend lines

01:05:29.140 as it relates to young folks,

01:05:30.380 or,

01:05:30.540 I mean,

01:05:30.840 when we say co-red,

01:05:31.960 it's legitimately co-red.

01:05:33.160 If you're 30 years old,

01:05:34.940 you're the first generation

01:05:36.100 in the history of this country,

01:05:37.720 not doing better

01:05:39.120 than your parents.

01:05:40.480 You're a hundred percent.

01:05:41.660 If you look at college graduation,

01:05:43.600 it's going to be two to one

01:05:44.760 at the UCs and CSUs

01:05:46.320 here in the next five years,

01:05:48.300 women, 1.00

01:05:48.820 which is fantastic,

01:05:50.040 but two to one dropout rates.

01:05:52.700 You see rates,

01:05:54.100 you know,

01:05:54.280 deaths of despair,

01:05:55.340 suicide rates.

01:05:56.300 If you go to a morgue,

01:05:57.540 you know,

01:05:58.180 five bodies,

01:05:59.300 four of them are men

01:06:00.100 from suicide.

01:06:01.300 And it's all these major issues

01:06:03.700 that are shaping things

01:06:05.700 in more ways and more days.

01:06:06.980 And I don't think,

01:06:08.000 again,

01:06:08.580 our party,

01:06:09.380 my party is doing enough

01:06:10.560 to address it.

01:06:11.280 It's probably going to make it worse too,

01:06:12.840 right?

01:06:13.160 I mean,

01:06:14.140 probably.

01:06:15.220 Right.

01:06:16.100 Seems like.

01:06:16.700 Let's talk about

01:06:17.120 just that economic anxiety

01:06:18.860 just briefly in terms of what

01:06:20.540 it seems now

01:06:21.640 Trump himself

01:06:22.760 is recognizing

01:06:24.200 that he has to reconcile.

01:06:26.000 That he appears now,

01:06:27.320 it's not just the wrecking ball

01:06:28.380 on the East Wing,

01:06:29.880 but that he's took a wrecking ball

01:06:31.320 to this economy

01:06:32.040 and tariff impacts

01:06:33.540 are starting to now

01:06:34.660 flow through

01:06:35.320 to consumers,

01:06:36.500 at least the anxiety

01:06:37.340 at first.

01:06:38.220 And now the reality of that,

01:06:39.740 we'll see,

01:06:40.400 and we saw it

01:06:41.240 in terms of cost of Halloween candy.

01:06:43.960 We're going to see it

01:06:44.420 with the cost of Christmas toys.

01:06:46.420 Trump himself this week

01:06:47.440 is in Pennsylvania,

01:06:48.700 sort of a reset.

01:06:49.880 How serious do you feel?

01:06:51.500 I know Democrats were so prone

01:06:53.160 at this is it for Trump.

01:06:54.340 This is it.

01:06:55.960 Do you feel like though

01:06:57.660 there is something,

01:06:58.700 the fact that Susie Wiles

01:06:59.880 did direct Trump

01:07:01.000 to focus a little less

01:07:03.680 on his peace prize

01:07:04.520 and maybe focus

01:07:05.240 a little bit more on,

01:07:06.100 you know,

01:07:07.360 sowing the seeds

01:07:08.020 of a economic narrative?

01:07:09.780 Here's the good news.

01:07:10.580 We've talked about

01:07:11.140 all the things

01:07:11.420 Democrats need to do better.

01:07:13.380 Trump's about to make it easy

01:07:14.580 if you just want

01:07:15.180 to walk through the door.

01:07:16.480 Honestly.

01:07:17.100 Like,

01:07:17.280 because you talk about

01:07:17.920 that same group of people

01:07:18.940 we're talking about

01:07:19.720 is like the,

01:07:23.520 not the ideologically

01:07:25.200 rigid conservative folks.

01:07:26.660 All right?

01:07:26.960 Like,

01:07:27.540 that's not who we're talking,

01:07:28.540 that's not who I'm talking about.

01:07:29.700 It's the people

01:07:30.220 that came to Trump,

01:07:32.060 disproportionately men,

01:07:33.220 but not entirely,

01:07:34.540 that felt like,

01:07:37.360 you know,

01:07:38.300 politics as usual

01:07:39.060 wasn't serving them,

01:07:39.980 that we were wasting

01:07:40.900 too much money overseas,

01:07:42.120 not taking care

01:07:42.800 of people back here,

01:07:43.760 that,

01:07:44.820 you know,

01:07:45.300 we're caring too much

01:07:46.560 about people at the border

01:07:48.000 and not people in this country

01:07:49.160 and that,

01:07:50.800 you know,

01:07:51.460 he was going to

01:07:52.580 fight the status quo

01:07:53.960 on behalf of them

01:07:54.840 and make their life

01:07:56.200 better and easier

01:07:57.080 and things maybe

01:07:57.860 would get cheaper.

01:07:59.260 That was like

01:08:00.120 his pitch to a lot

01:08:01.080 of those folks.

01:08:02.040 Right.

01:08:02.200 And he's failing.

01:08:03.700 He's doing the opposite

01:08:04.580 and they're noticing,

01:08:05.740 you know,

01:08:06.340 and you look at that

01:08:07.060 first row of people

01:08:08.180 that I've noticed,

01:08:08.640 you watch those comedian pods.

01:08:10.620 It's like,

01:08:10.900 Joe Rogan's not so sure

01:08:11.980 about it lately.

01:08:13.040 This guy,

01:08:13.360 Tim Dillon,

01:08:13.840 I listen to a lot,

01:08:14.600 Andrew Schultz,

01:08:15.340 like all these guys

01:08:16.540 were for Trump in the end

01:08:17.560 and they're looking at this

01:08:18.240 and they're saying,

01:08:18.740 guy,

01:08:19.680 like people,

01:08:21.100 what is your focus on?

01:08:22.580 Like,

01:08:22.760 why are we bombing boats

01:08:23.940 in the Caribbean?

01:08:25.020 Why are we bulldozing,

01:08:26.480 you know,

01:08:27.000 the East Wing?

01:08:27.800 Why do you care so much

01:08:28.600 about your peace prize?

01:08:29.660 Why have I made

01:08:30.460 three trips overseas

01:08:31.480 and no trips

01:08:32.500 to Red America? 0.65

01:08:33.920 Right.

01:08:34.080 Like Trump is,

01:08:35.040 Trump is for once

01:08:36.300 making a normal

01:08:37.040 politician mistake.

01:08:38.600 Trump's made a lot

01:08:39.080 of his weird mistakes,

01:08:40.420 you know,

01:08:40.700 Trumpian stuff,

01:08:41.680 gaffes and racist stuff,

01:08:42.940 you know,

01:08:43.400 but this is just

01:08:44.000 normal politician mistakes.

01:08:45.520 He's getting out of touch

01:08:46.400 with what his voters want

01:08:47.420 and I think it's very real

01:08:50.440 and I think that people's

01:08:51.820 economic insecurity

01:08:54.220 right now is real.

01:08:55.600 I think it's going

01:08:56.160 to get worse probably

01:08:57.360 for the combination

01:08:58.120 of Trump's own policies

01:08:59.260 and the AI stuff.

01:09:00.680 I think it's going

01:09:01.960 to make it even

01:09:02.480 more challenging

01:09:03.340 rather than getting better

01:09:05.760 and, you know,

01:09:08.380 I just think that

01:09:09.460 if those of us

01:09:10.520 that want to move

01:09:11.780 on from this

01:09:12.520 can offer the people

01:09:14.760 that were attracted

01:09:15.860 to Trump

01:09:16.480 an alternative

01:09:18.320 and say,

01:09:19.540 hey,

01:09:20.460 look,

01:09:21.500 yeah,

01:09:21.940 he promised you all this.

01:09:23.300 He didn't do it.

01:09:24.940 You know,

01:09:25.300 rather than be like,

01:09:26.000 oh,

01:09:26.160 we told you so.

01:09:28.020 He's obviously

01:09:28.780 not going to do it.

01:09:29.380 You got fooled.

01:09:29.880 I like to do that

01:09:30.900 from time to time

01:09:31.580 but I'm a podcaster.

01:09:32.800 The politicians

01:09:33.380 shouldn't do that.

01:09:34.300 You know what I mean?

01:09:34.800 It's like,

01:09:35.280 okay,

01:09:35.700 instead of that,

01:09:37.100 just be like,

01:09:37.680 hey,

01:09:40.100 look,

01:09:40.840 we heard,

01:09:41.180 heard,

01:09:41.800 heard,

01:09:42.380 you know,

01:09:42.940 you want to be able

01:09:43.740 to care more

01:09:44.280 about your problems

01:09:45.060 than all this other stuff

01:09:46.080 and we're going

01:09:46.680 to start doing that.

01:09:47.680 I think it's a big opportunity

01:09:48.680 and I think that Trump

01:09:49.500 has real problems.

01:09:50.620 Not like,

01:09:51.380 oh,

01:09:51.480 the end is near.

01:09:52.660 Not like,

01:09:53.360 oh,

01:09:53.600 things won't be bad

01:09:54.420 the next three years.

01:09:55.140 They will be.

01:09:56.320 Not,

01:09:56.820 oh,

01:09:56.940 it's impossible

01:09:57.540 to J.D. Vance

01:09:58.380 or Don Jr.

01:09:59.160 or whoever

01:09:59.620 is the next president.

01:10:01.200 It's possible,

01:10:01.880 right?

01:10:02.380 But it's like,

01:10:02.980 he's creating

01:10:03.540 a real opportunity

01:10:04.340 because he's losing people

01:10:05.580 that were in this coalition

01:10:06.580 on economic stuff

01:10:08.980 and also on the immigration stuff.

01:10:11.080 And on immigration.

01:10:12.400 What,

01:10:12.640 and we didn't even get

01:10:13.200 to healthcare.

01:10:13.800 So what,

01:10:14.280 Speaker Jeffries

01:10:15.440 on,

01:10:16.580 you know,

01:10:17.200 scale of one to 10,

01:10:18.600 is that a nine

01:10:19.320 or is it,

01:10:20.060 or is it a one

01:10:21.340 until we make it a nine

01:10:22.560 because that's

01:10:23.280 the political response?

01:10:24.500 What would,

01:10:24.840 I mean,

01:10:25.940 it was like teetering

01:10:27.180 before,

01:10:27.780 not to gash you up

01:10:29.220 or anything,

01:10:29.740 but it was teetering

01:10:30.400 before the redistricting move.

01:10:31.820 I gotta tell you,

01:10:32.460 the,

01:10:33.620 there was a moment

01:10:34.420 where it was like,

01:10:34.820 if you guys didn't act,

01:10:36.300 if Virginia didn't act,

01:10:37.440 if none of the states acted,

01:10:38.300 if to just,

01:10:38.880 and if the Republicans

01:10:39.700 went full throttle,

01:10:40.780 which they ended up

01:10:41.460 not doing

01:10:42.180 for a variety of reasons,

01:10:43.120 and Voting Rights Act

01:10:45.460 got overturned.

01:10:47.000 There was a moment

01:10:48.060 a couple months ago

01:10:48.980 where I was like,

01:10:49.600 with the nerd,

01:10:50.600 math nerds,

01:10:51.400 like looking at the maps

01:10:52.380 and it was like,

01:10:53.380 they might just be able

01:10:54.480 to rig their way

01:10:55.620 into the fact

01:10:57.240 that no matter

01:10:57.760 how good the Democrats do,

01:10:59.080 they can't get a majority.

01:11:00.880 Like they were close

01:11:01.680 to being able

01:11:02.040 to rig the whole map

01:11:02.780 and that crumbled.

01:11:05.500 So kudos on that.

01:11:07.220 So I think it's probably

01:11:08.380 like a seven or eight,

01:11:10.660 you know,

01:11:10.960 I think that it's likely

01:11:12.980 that who the hell knows

01:11:14.460 what a year holds.

01:11:16.040 A lot of things can happen

01:11:16.960 between now and then.

01:11:18.220 Part of that seven or eight

01:11:19.060 is who knows,

01:11:19.640 maybe Jeffries has an insurgency

01:11:21.100 inside his own party.

01:11:23.360 Like, you know,

01:11:24.300 a lot of things can happen

01:11:25.600 between now

01:11:26.580 and next November.

01:11:27.540 So I don't know about a nine,

01:11:28.600 but I think things are good.

01:11:30.940 And it's a scenario

01:11:31.620 where a lot of Trump's own making.

01:11:33.060 Jeffries is in there

01:11:33.740 in six months

01:11:34.480 if enough Republicans

01:11:35.740 start to resign.

01:11:36.720 Yeah, keep resigning.

01:11:37.840 Yeah.

01:11:38.960 And they know it.

01:11:40.200 You know,

01:11:40.700 they see it,

01:11:41.460 that it's not going to happen

01:11:42.320 for them.

01:11:42.860 And that's why a lot of them

01:11:43.740 are resigning.

01:11:45.300 So I think that's good news.

01:11:46.920 I do worry, though.

01:11:48.360 I'm the nervous Nelly podcaster.

01:11:51.120 Yeah, I've been like,

01:11:52.280 I look back at 22

01:11:54.020 and I think

01:11:55.760 the big narrative out there

01:11:59.240 was red wave, red wave.

01:12:00.700 And it didn't happen.

01:12:01.800 And it didn't happen

01:12:02.640 for two reasons.

01:12:04.000 One was people were pissed

01:12:05.280 about Dobbs.

01:12:06.140 And there really was

01:12:07.720 a turnout,

01:12:08.640 particularly among women

01:12:09.820 on the abortion issue.

01:12:11.340 That should be noted.

01:12:12.440 Also because Republicans 0.99

01:12:13.400 dominated a bunch of lunatics 0.94

01:12:14.580 and cost a couple races 0.98

01:12:17.000 that they didn't,

01:12:17.800 shouldn't have.

01:12:18.620 I was in Arizona

01:12:19.620 following that race closely

01:12:20.920 and there was,

01:12:21.880 Katie Hobbs had no business 1.00

01:12:22.880 winning that race,

01:12:23.580 for example.

01:12:24.100 That was a governor's race,

01:12:24.860 not a senator race,

01:12:25.360 but there are other examples

01:12:26.420 of places.

01:12:27.280 And so you come out of there

01:12:30.400 and it's like,

01:12:30.860 oh, it wasn't a red wave.

01:12:31.720 This was great.

01:12:32.940 Things are going good.

01:12:34.360 Biden-omics is fine. 0.99

01:12:36.540 And we all see what happened.

01:12:38.380 So, and I just always look back.

01:12:40.100 I got into an argument

01:12:40.700 with a Biden person recently

01:12:41.680 where they're like,

01:12:42.420 you know, it was reasonable

01:12:43.120 for us to think it was good

01:12:43.980 because there was no red wave.

01:12:45.340 And I was like,

01:12:45.760 you lost the house that year.

01:12:47.780 It wasn't that good of a year.

01:12:49.140 Like you lost the house still.

01:12:51.320 And so I just,

01:12:52.480 I don't want to get into next year

01:12:53.840 and have the Democrats

01:12:55.400 get into complacency

01:12:56.660 where it's like,

01:12:57.780 if it's a really good year,

01:12:59.900 Democrats should take the Senate.

01:13:02.160 If it's a really good year,

01:13:03.240 they should take,

01:13:03.560 it shouldn't just be

01:13:04.180 Speaker Jeffries.

01:13:04.900 It should be Majority Leader Schumer

01:13:06.060 if it's a really good year.

01:13:07.200 And if the Democrats

01:13:07.760 don't take the Senate

01:13:08.840 in a year where Trump 0.99

01:13:10.020 is fucking everything up, 0.99

01:13:11.420 then that should tell you

01:13:12.740 a little bit something

01:13:13.280 about how the Democrats

01:13:13.980 still have more work to do

01:13:14.820 to appeal to people

01:13:15.700 in places like Iowa, Ohio, Texas

01:13:17.500 to go back to the beginning

01:13:18.280 of our conversation

01:13:19.040 if we can't win

01:13:20.120 any of those states.

01:13:21.400 And so that would be

01:13:23.420 my take on the midterms.

01:13:24.620 I think things are looking good

01:13:25.600 for the House,

01:13:26.240 which is important,

01:13:27.480 but there should not be complacency

01:13:31.040 about the status,

01:13:32.280 the political status

01:13:33.580 of the Democrats,

01:13:34.380 I don't think.

01:13:34.680 Amen.

01:13:35.120 Well, I'll take a seven.

01:13:36.900 I'll take an eight.

01:13:37.860 I prefer a nine.

01:13:39.480 But hell,

01:13:39.980 the fact you brought up

01:13:40.780 the Senate,

01:13:41.760 we will end on that.

01:13:43.600 Tim Miller,

01:13:44.040 thanks for being with us today.

01:13:45.660 All right, brother.

01:13:46.160 I appreciate all the work

01:13:47.060 you're doing out there.

01:13:47.680 Let's stay in touch.

01:13:48.180 We got to do a flip

01:13:48.820 sometime soon.

01:13:49.700 I know.

01:13:50.120 We absolutely have to do.

01:13:51.600 We haven't done that yet.

01:13:52.980 I know.

01:13:53.200 All right.

01:13:53.480 We'll see you.

01:13:54.420 Appreciate you.

01:13:55.600 All right.

01:13:55.840 Thanks, man.

01:14:00.520 Hey there,

01:14:01.280 Dr. Jesse Mills here.

01:14:02.400 I'm the director

01:14:02.900 of the Men's Clinic

01:14:03.620 at UCLA,

01:14:04.240 and I want to tell you

01:14:05.220 about my new podcast

01:14:06.100 called The Mailroom.

01:14:07.300 And I'm Jordan,

01:14:08.000 the show's producer.

01:14:09.080 And like most guys,

01:14:10.180 I haven't been to the doctor

01:14:11.140 in way too long.

01:14:12.480 I'll be asking the questions

01:14:13.500 we probably should be asking,

01:14:14.940 but aren't.

01:14:15.460 Every week,

01:14:16.500 we're breaking down

01:14:17.160 the world of men's health 0.86

01:14:18.220 from testosterone and fitness

01:14:19.520 to diets and fertility.

01:14:20.940 We'll talk science

01:14:21.780 without the jargon

01:14:22.600 and get your real answers

01:14:23.700 to the stuff you actually

01:14:24.860 wonder about.

01:14:25.480 So check out The Mailroom

01:14:26.700 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:14:28.080 Apple Podcasts,

01:14:29.140 or wherever you get

01:14:30.080 your favorite shows.

01:14:31.100 What up, y'all?

01:14:33.500 It's your boy,

01:14:34.180 Kev On Stage.

01:14:34.940 I want to tell you

01:14:35.440 about my new podcast

01:14:36.420 called Not My Best Moment,

01:14:38.420 where I talk to artists,

01:14:39.760 athletes, entertainers,

01:14:40.980 creators, friends,

01:14:42.460 people I admire

01:14:43.440 who've had massive success

01:14:45.100 about their massive failures.

01:14:47.160 What did they mess up on?

01:14:48.480 What is their heartbreak?

01:14:49.460 And what did they learn from it?

01:14:50.940 I got judged horribly.

01:14:53.220 The judges were like, 1.00

01:14:53.960 you're trash. 1.00

01:14:55.100 I don't know how you got on the show. 1.00

01:14:56.720 Check out Not My Best Moment

01:14:57.940 with me, Kev On Stage,

01:14:59.480 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:15:00.640 Apple Podcasts,

01:15:01.840 YouTube,

01:15:02.360 or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:15:04.740 Hey, everybody.

01:15:05.840 It's Chuck and Josh

01:15:06.560 from the Stuff You Should Know podcast,

01:15:08.140 and it's that time of year again

01:15:09.420 when we knuckle down

01:15:10.300 to do our annual holiday episodes.

01:15:12.240 We collected our best past

01:15:13.960 classic holiday episodes

01:15:15.220 and compiled them

01:15:16.260 into a 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist

01:15:18.680 that the whole family can enjoy.

01:15:20.800 That's right.

01:15:21.240 Maybe you missed it

01:15:21.820 the first time we detailed

01:15:22.820 the history of Beanie Babies,

01:15:24.340 Monopoly, or Yo-Yos,

01:15:25.740 and a whole lot more.

01:15:26.800 So listen to the

01:15:27.700 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist

01:15:29.540 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:15:31.020 Apple Podcasts,

01:15:31.960 or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:15:33.340 I know he has a reputation,

01:15:35.920 but it's going to catch up to him.

01:15:37.460 Gabe Ortiz is a cop.

01:15:39.020 His brother Larry,

01:15:40.300 a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve

01:15:41.840 until it was too late.

01:15:43.540 He was the head of this gang.

01:15:45.940 You going to push that line for the cause?

01:15:47.680 Took us under his wing

01:15:48.740 and showed us the game,

01:15:50.840 as they call it.

01:15:52.320 When Larry's killed,

01:15:53.500 Gabe must untangle a dangerous past,

01:15:55.620 one that could destroy

01:15:56.620 everything he thought he knew.

01:15:57.940 Listen to the Brothers Ortiz

01:15:59.500 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:16:00.960 Apple Podcasts,

01:16:01.900 or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:16:04.620 Atlanta is a spirit.

01:16:06.040 It's not just a city.

01:16:07.340 It's where Kronk was born

01:16:08.380 in a club in the West End.

01:16:09.880 Before World Star,

01:16:10.960 it was 559.

01:16:12.200 Where preachers go viral

01:16:13.380 and students at the HBCU

01:16:15.360 turned heartbreak into resurrection.

01:16:17.580 Where dreamers brought Hollywood

01:16:18.820 to the South

01:16:19.700 and hustlers bring their visions

01:16:21.500 to create black wealth. 0.75

01:16:22.820 Nobody's rushing into

01:16:23.800 relationships with you.

01:16:25.120 I'm Big Rube.

01:16:25.840 Listen to Atlanta Ears

01:16:27.560 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:16:29.820 Apple Podcasts,

01:16:31.100 or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:16:33.760 This is an iHeart Podcast.

01:16:36.600 Guaranteed human.

This is Gavin Newsom - December 12, 2025

And, This Is How Trump Loses His Base with Tim Miller of The Bulwark

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