This is Gavin Newsom - And, This is How Trump’s Tariffs Cost YOU Money With Anthony Scaramucci

00:00:00.820 In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.

00:00:04.800 7,000 bodies out there, or more.

00:00:08.580 A forgotten asylum cemetery.

00:00:10.580 It was my family's mystery.

00:00:13.040 Shame, guilt, propriety.

00:00:16.060 Something keeps it all buried deep.

00:00:18.780 Until it's not.

00:00:20.280 I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay.

00:00:24.260 Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:30.000 What's up, I'm Laura, host of the podcast Courtside with Laura Carrenti,

00:00:33.660 a masterclass case study of the business of women's sports.

00:00:36.440 I'll be chatting with leaders like tennis icon Alana Klaus.

00:00:40.000 I don't do what I do only for women.

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00:01:12.800 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

00:01:14.240 This episode, Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation,

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00:01:32.560 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

00:01:35.760 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:01:42.020 The number one hit podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new,

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00:02:50.580 Well, we're finally here.

00:02:51.660 It's Liberation Day.

00:02:53.060 Or is it?

00:02:53.940 In America.

00:02:54.920 Is it Recession Day?

00:02:56.160 Is it Tax Day?

00:02:56.940 Is it Liquidation Day?

00:02:58.560 All the punditry out and the realities, the new realities of unprecedented tariffs,

00:03:05.400 unprecedented tax increases in the United States of America, certainly in peacetime,

00:03:10.560 up to 23% tariffs all around the globe.

00:03:15.620 Are we in a trade war?

00:03:17.060 What does this mean in terms of you and your household and expenses?

00:03:21.620 Are cars going to get cheaper?

00:03:24.040 Or as Donald Trump says, it doesn't even matter.

00:03:26.980 We're going to talk about all of those things as well as what went right, what went wrong

00:03:31.320 with the Harris campaign.

00:03:32.620 What is the path back for the Democratic Party?

00:03:35.580 With Anthony Scaramucci, up next on This is Gavin Newsom.

00:03:39.600 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:03:50.200 And this is Anthony Scaramucci.

00:03:54.040 Governor Newsom going for the silver fox look.

00:03:56.620 Okay, this is Latin American dictator Brown, Governor, if you ever need to color.

00:04:00.460 Yeah, it's called just for men, Anthony.

00:04:03.420 That's what that's called.

00:04:04.340 Well, I was using Cuban Leader Black, but it looked terrible on TV, so I lightened it up a little bit.

00:04:08.800 How often do you have to do it?

00:04:09.860 I don't even have the guts to try to turn orange.

00:04:13.580 Well, you definitely don't want to turn orange, especially these days.

00:04:16.780 That would be a bad color for both of us, actually.

00:04:19.140 Speaking of orange, I mean, we all waited for this moment.

00:04:26.080 Did you predict it would be this volatile, this reckless?

00:04:31.040 I knew it would be bad.

00:04:32.760 I didn't, you know, the thing that you always prayed for is that he would have some people around

00:04:37.780 and slow him down.

00:04:38.460 You know, if you talk to Mnuchin or you talk to Gary, Gary Cohen, former Goldman Sachs president,

00:04:45.500 chief operating officer, they slow, he, this was the potential implementation 2018.

00:04:52.380 Yeah.

00:04:52.540 They slowed that down.

00:04:53.860 Kelly slowed it down.

00:04:56.720 Mnuchin.

00:04:58.740 All of those guys did not want this, and so he wasn't able to do this.

00:05:03.460 Now he has willing accomplices, you know, how do you want me to address you?

00:05:08.620 Governor Gavin, how do you want to talk?

00:05:09.640 Gavin works.

00:05:10.460 I mean, I get, you know, walk the streets with me.

00:05:13.000 I'll get asshole.

00:05:13.840 I'll get everything.

00:05:14.540 So I'll take Gavin.

00:05:15.520 I've been called a lot worse than Mnuchin and Anthony.

00:05:17.840 Trust me.

00:05:18.260 You can't go into politics without getting some shit.

00:05:21.300 But let me, I'm curious.

00:05:22.360 I mean, it is interesting because Trump 1.0, I mean, obviously this fixation that he's had

00:05:27.180 for decades, you've known Trump for quite literally decades, you know, on and off and

00:05:31.620 obviously worked briefly for him.

00:05:33.640 But I mean, he's, the one thing legitimately he has been consistent about as a former Democrat,

00:05:39.140 pro-choice Democrat, it's an interesting area of consistency.

00:05:42.260 It's on the issues of tariffs.

00:05:43.820 So to your point, this obviously must have been on the agenda, at least internally in

00:05:49.060 the first administration.

00:05:50.500 But did you ever see it at this level?

00:05:52.480 I mean, this is not even reciprocal tariffs.

00:05:54.220 These are sort of seem random and they seem almost, I mean, it's like a, that was a strange,

00:06:00.340 I mean, it's always a reality TV show, but you had to see that board yesterday and the

00:06:05.300 nature of how they came up with some of the numerics and divide by two.

00:06:08.900 I mean, that couldn't have been necessarily on the docket in the first term, was it?

00:06:15.040 No, I don't, I don't, I don't think it was this level of unseriousness.

00:06:20.300 I think in the, in the first administration, it was, he wanted to tack on across the board

00:06:25.460 tariffs and he wanted to put up a, a border, a financial border, if you will, around the

00:06:31.140 United States.

00:06:31.620 So remember, he wants to wall the United States off literally and physically from the rest

00:06:36.100 of the world.

00:06:36.640 The Trump doctrine and the reason why he goes back to McKinley, during President McKinley's

00:06:42.200 administration, 97% of what we produced, we consumed inside the country.

00:06:47.480 And so Trump's attitude is that the world has freeloaded off the U.S. and that we need

00:06:53.980 to wall ourselves off literally and physically from the, from the rest of the world.

00:06:58.760 Now that misunderstands how actually the world works.

00:07:03.240 And this is the problem we're all having.

00:07:05.300 We need somebody like you to organize dissent and explain to people that what Trump is doing

00:07:12.180 is actually catastrophic for our economy.

00:07:14.220 What he's doing would take us back to the 1930s with the Smoot-Hawley Act, which steepened

00:07:21.020 a recession and turned it into a great depression.

00:07:25.240 Trump, Trump could touch off deflation, Governor Newsom.

00:07:28.360 And if you, if you touch off deflation in a society like ours, it's absolutely catastrophic

00:07:33.100 because remember we're in a debt laden society.

00:07:35.720 So let me just give this example.

00:07:36.960 If you, if you have a $250,000 mortgage and an $80,000 job in a deflationary society, your

00:07:45.320 salary is going down alongside the goods and services, but your, your debt's not going

00:07:49.820 down.

00:07:50.640 You're forced to pay back the debt with dollars that are worth more than the dollars you borrow.

00:07:57.100 You know, in an inflationary situation, you can pay back the debt with dollars that are worth

00:08:01.460 less, but if the counter should happen, it's absolutely devastating for the society.

00:08:07.140 And so the fed is going to be forced now to cut rates because the fed fears deflation way

00:08:14.800 more than inflation.

00:08:15.720 So, so what he's doing is actually historically catastrophic.

00:08:19.740 He's doing something that literally, if you said, Governor, if I said to you, okay, let's

00:08:24.540 get in a room, you and I, and let's dismantle the global trading system.

00:08:29.500 Let's get every one of our allies sore at us and let's give our adversaries a leg up.

00:08:36.220 Let's give China an opportunity now to re-engage with Europe and become their number one trading

00:08:41.960 partner.

00:08:42.780 What should we do to do that in 65, 70 days?

00:08:46.420 And you, this is what you would do.

00:08:47.980 Everything that he's implemented, uh, is, is doing that.

00:08:51.860 And his, his unserious cabinet, they can't defend it.

00:08:55.700 I mean, Lutnick's on TV, tried to defend it, cannot defend it.

00:08:59.560 I feel bad for Scott, you know, the secretary of treasury, beset.

00:09:03.300 It's like blink twice, we'll get sealed team six and they'll take you off the CNN, we'll

00:09:07.220 take you off the CNN show.

00:09:08.940 You know, I mean, it's, it's embarrassing.

00:09:11.440 It's embarrassing for all of us because, okay, there are, this is the, and this is the thing

00:09:17.140 with Donald Trump.

00:09:17.740 There are things about him that centrist, Wall Streeters, centrist do like.

00:09:23.040 They want a stronger border.

00:09:24.420 I think you've had several people on your show that have articulated that.

00:09:27.540 They want some banking deregulation, some positive crypto regulation.

00:09:32.180 But with Donald Trump, sir, you go to the buffet table with your tray.

00:09:37.180 You can't pick the things that you want a la carte.

00:09:40.500 He force feeds you everything.

00:09:42.340 You know, he force feeds you the meme coin.

00:09:44.500 He force feeds you the rhetoric on the 51st state.

00:09:47.740 He force feeds you the nonsense about NATO and the, and the, I mean, what the dressing

00:09:54.740 down of Zelensky, what they did to Zelensky to me is literally one of the most un-American

00:09:59.860 things that I've seen.

00:10:00.960 So, so we're, we're in a situation now where even Rand Paul, sir, even Rand Paul got to the

00:10:07.840 airwaves last night and said that what he's proposing is absurd.

00:10:11.820 And of course, the markets are reacting with their signal, not noise, signal.

00:10:17.680 They're signaling how absurd this all is.

00:10:20.160 So there's so much to unpack in what you said, and I want to, I want to explore a number of

00:10:24.140 the points you made, but let's just go back to a fundamental point.

00:10:27.340 And it goes back to just, you know, the person that is Donald Trump.

00:10:31.420 He wants to be loved.

00:10:32.940 The markets matter to him.

00:10:34.720 It's a, it's the one sort of objective scorecard.

00:10:37.040 Uh, he's got to see this kind of volatility.

00:10:39.280 I mean, sort of previewed a little bit of it.

00:10:41.880 Uh, you've seen some of that volatility over the course of the last few months, and he pulled

00:10:46.600 back on some of his assertions and some of his threats and promises.

00:10:51.440 I mean, what, what happens do you think in the next few days, uh, on the basis of this

00:10:56.240 reaction, global reaction, but profound impacts in terms of the market volatility?

00:11:01.380 Oh, well, he, he, he has sent out his keyboard warriors this morning to say to people, come

00:11:09.240 to the table.

00:11:10.080 Eric Trump is out on, uh, uh, X or whatever they call it now saying, Hey, come to the

00:11:15.080 table and negotiate with my dad, or it's going to end badly for you.

00:11:18.220 I've seen it my whole life, you know?

00:11:19.780 And so they're nervous, you know, they're sending out signals to people that, okay, we've

00:11:24.720 obviously overstepped.

00:11:26.000 Obviously this, uh, I, uh, governor, I call it the anti 10 commandments.

00:11:31.860 It's like the evil 10 commandments.

00:11:33.380 He had this big tablet in his hand.

00:11:35.220 We had orange Moses descending from Mount evil with the, you know, indiscernible tablet,

00:11:41.640 but they now know that they've overstepped.

00:11:44.740 And so they're nervous and they're, they're, they're trying to tell leaders now come to

00:11:49.180 the table, let my father declare victory, you know, uh, you know, you know, prime minister

00:11:54.680 Carney come to the table and then he'll put out on truth social.

00:11:58.180 I've lowered the tariffs for Canada, you know, this, this sort of thing.

00:12:01.860 Uh, and it's, it's actually, it's actually embarrassing.

00:12:05.440 You know, it's embarrassing because in, I can't speak for the school system in California,

00:12:11.000 but I would imagine sometime in the first grade, like the school system here in New

00:12:16.100 York, you read the emperor has no clothes.

00:12:18.900 I was seven when I first read this brilliant piece of literature and I remember remarking

00:12:24.580 to myself at age seven, well, who would be stupid enough to tell an emperor that he has

00:12:31.320 clothes on when he has no clothes on.

00:12:33.620 And of course, now here we are in 2025, it's, it's 54 years after I read this beautiful piece

00:12:40.340 of first grade literature.

00:12:41.220 And I'm watching people in the president's court do things I'm, they're, they're bobbleheads

00:12:48.240 governor, you know, they're bobbling, they're bobbing their head saying yes, yes, yes.

00:12:53.040 Where privately they're saying no, no, no.

00:12:55.660 And so I do, I do think there would be a breach, but I, I want to go back to your loved thing

00:13:00.520 because I think this is a 40 year idea for Trump.

00:13:04.160 He mentioned it to Oprah Winfrey in the mid eighties and he wants to implement it.

00:13:09.200 And so if it causes hardship in his perverse mind, he thinks that this is a solution for

00:13:18.300 America.

00:13:18.720 He thinks this is a reshoring solution for America.

00:13:22.580 He thinks this is an end of the, uh, uh, the freeloading.

00:13:26.780 You know, this is what his team says on signal.

00:13:29.520 Uh, but of course you and I know that that's not the case and I can prove to your viewers

00:13:33.780 and listeners that this is not the case.

00:13:36.280 America, by integrating with the rest of the world, created a bigger market for America,

00:13:42.200 more prosperity for America.

00:13:44.600 Is it perfect?

00:13:45.480 No.

00:13:45.760 Should our political leadership have checked some of the rights that the Chinese had in

00:13:50.560 the WTO as the Chinese economy grew?

00:13:53.800 Yes, I accept that.

00:13:55.280 Should we have checked some of the tariffs that could put on us?

00:13:58.100 Certainly.

00:13:58.580 But the notion that America would integrate with the rest of the world and then generally

00:14:04.760 provide a security umbrella for the free world has led to incredible amounts of peace and

00:14:11.640 incredible amounts of prosperity here in America.

00:14:14.140 And let me just point this out to you before you ask another question.

00:14:17.220 In 1982, we had approximately 5% of the world's population and 26% of the world's output.

00:14:23.560 It's the same number today.

00:14:26.180 So think of the rising living standards around the world.

00:14:29.380 I can prove to you, prima facie, that the policies have generally worked.

00:14:34.840 We just needed to have done a better job.

00:14:37.660 We left a vacuum of advocacy, your party, frankly, my party, my old party.

00:14:42.420 We left a vacuum of advocacy for white, middle-class, blue-collar workers.

00:14:48.260 And I would suggest that we got to get back to that.

00:14:50.900 If you want to have the counter-narrative to the nonsense that's going on, those families,

00:14:56.640 and this would be my own family, they voted for the Franklin Roosevelt's.

00:14:59.940 They voted for the Jack Kennedy's.

00:15:01.380 They voted for the Lyndon Johnson's.

00:15:03.460 But it seems like we just lost our way and we left those people out of the American

00:15:09.180 aspirational economy.

00:15:11.300 Many of those people now, sir, feel desperational.

00:15:15.180 And I appreciate that.

00:15:16.700 I think it's what led you to appreciate Trump as a Republican.

00:15:20.820 And you were out there campaigning for Jeb Bush and others.

00:15:23.880 But I think you constantly-

00:15:25.620 You're a Catholic.

00:15:26.740 Is that right, Governor?

00:15:28.240 I'm right out of the old Irish Catholic clan out here.

00:15:30.720 Okay, good.

00:15:30.920 Because this could be a confessional for me.

00:15:32.800 I won't have to go on Saturday.

00:15:34.360 I can confess all my sins.

00:15:36.260 I can confess all my sins working for Donald Trump.

00:15:38.980 No, but I'm going to compliment you a little bit because what you just expressed is what

00:15:44.220 you also experienced.

00:15:45.680 And you talk often about New Mexico when you were out there and you saw him at least talking

00:15:50.380 to those folks.

00:15:51.380 You were not talking down to them and acknowledging them.

00:15:54.620 I see you.

00:15:55.160 I care, at least asserting that he cared.

00:15:57.960 And you saw my party that seemed to be defending NAFTA, defending TPP, defending some of those

00:16:05.000 trade deals, or at least struggling with them as it relates to an electoral strategy, not fully

00:16:10.160 appreciating the magnitude of the displacement and the despair in the faces and the heart of so many.

00:16:17.000 And so what, you know, appreciating that and appreciating there were people there yesterday

00:16:21.620 with President, that, you know, United Auto Workers and others that just feel like this

00:16:26.940 is a, we are getting ripped off.

00:16:28.540 And, you know, at least this gives us a shot again.

00:16:31.560 I mean, what, is there a case that you can make?

00:16:34.520 Is there a case that Trump himself at this moment, particularly, he can defend?

00:16:39.200 Or do you just think he went further than he realized he went?

00:16:43.260 And this is completely reckless, not just taking the risk.

00:16:47.740 So again, the case could have been made 40 or 50 years ago, but it can't be realistically

00:16:53.860 made today.

00:16:54.860 That's the problem because NAFTA caused a full integration of the Canadian and almost a full

00:17:01.540 integration of the Mexican economy.

00:17:03.660 So as an example, Prime Minister Carney, who's a personal friend of mine, I worked with him

00:17:08.480 at Goldman 35 years ago.

00:17:10.080 He would tell you that auto parts are coming across the border back and forth at least six

00:17:15.920 times before they get installed in the car.

00:17:18.420 And you can't charge 25% tariffs each time it moves across the border.

00:17:22.560 And so we've integrated the economies.

00:17:25.260 If you said to me, we needed to right size elements of the tariff system to protect American

00:17:36.520 working class families, I would say resoundingly, yes.

00:17:40.860 If you said to me, we need surgical tariffs, where we need to go through the tariff system

00:17:46.440 and say, OK, the Chinese are dumping this product into our market.

00:17:50.140 They are subsidizing it with their government's help, and they're giving an artificial price.

00:17:55.240 And we saw that, of course, with Biden.

00:17:57.160 I mean, he built off Trump's targeted tariffs.

00:18:00.120 And Biden administration certainly had that.

00:18:01.960 Yeah, they went more delicately through the list.

00:18:05.640 And this is the thing about Donald Trump that we have to acknowledge.

00:18:10.540 There are kernels of truth in what he's saying.

00:18:13.940 It's the implementation of the policy that's flawed.

00:18:17.100 But if you're telling me we have a problem at the border, Milton Friedman would have said

00:18:21.360 years ago, well, if you have a welfare state and the US does have one, you have to protect

00:18:26.000 your border because free market forces dictate that people will cross the border.

00:18:31.040 And so I think what happened is, because of anti-Trump sentiment, President Biden reversed

00:18:35.440 all of that through executive action.

00:18:38.640 It was more of an anti-Trump statement than it was real thought-out policy.

00:18:43.480 And that hurt the Democrats in 2024.

00:18:46.680 But there was a kernel of truth to what Trump was saying.

00:18:49.380 It's more about the implementation and the heavy-handedness.

00:18:53.520 And again, same thing with the tariffs.

00:18:55.240 The president is correct that we need to bolster living standards in America for lower and

00:19:02.500 middle-income people.

00:19:04.260 The president is correct that there have been elements of the trade system where we've been

00:19:10.280 taken advantage of.

00:19:11.420 You know, the World Trade Organization let China in with extraordinary emerging market

00:19:18.680 latitude, extraordinary.

00:19:20.360 And they never corrected it as China rose.

00:19:23.160 And I'll say something, Governor, that does not reflect well on me, but I'll share it

00:19:27.460 with you.

00:19:28.500 At the age of 25 in 1999, the World Trade Organization, there were protests in Seattle.

00:19:38.420 Do you remember these?

00:19:39.360 I don't know if you would-

00:19:39.960 No, I remember.

00:19:40.540 Of course.

00:19:41.420 Okay.

00:19:41.760 And so Ralph Nader was up there.

00:19:43.720 Working-class families were up there.

00:19:45.280 They said, please, please do not let the Chinese into the WTO.

00:19:50.460 And you'll cause a hollowing out of our manufacturing.

00:19:53.380 You'll ruin our middle-class aspirational jobs.

00:19:56.280 Please don't.

00:19:56.820 I was a young Wall Street person at the time.

00:19:59.080 And I had bought into the Wall Street narrative that this was going to lower the cost of capital

00:20:05.000 deployment, lower the cost of labor, and was going to be generally good for the economy,

00:20:10.020 the stock market, and generally good for people.

00:20:12.780 And it was an advancement.

00:20:14.800 It was progress.

00:20:16.260 But those workers were right, Governor Newsom.

00:20:18.960 I got that wrong at age 29, because the aftermath of what happened 25, 26 years later is this

00:20:28.480 dilemma, this systemic rise in populism.

00:20:32.580 Moreover, when President Bush implemented the TARP money, he made a very big mistake, and

00:20:39.980 I think he's willing to admit it today.

00:20:41.800 He put a trillion into the banks.

00:20:43.540 If he put $750 into the banks, sir, and maybe $250 into the lower and middle-income people,

00:20:50.640 you maybe wouldn't have had the Occupy Wall Street movement.

00:20:53.760 Maybe it wouldn't have morphed into the Tea Party movement.

00:20:56.400 You see, there was an unfairness in the policy that created a prairie fire of populism.

00:21:13.540 There's a type of soil in Mississippi called yazoo clay.

00:21:39.760 It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

00:21:44.300 It's terrible, terrible dirt.

00:21:45.940 Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried.

00:21:51.520 Until they're not.

00:21:53.480 In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

00:21:59.460 7,000 bodies out there or more.

00:22:03.240 All former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.

00:22:08.240 It was my family's mystery.

00:22:10.640 But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

00:22:15.100 Nobody talks about it.

00:22:16.780 Nobody has any information.

00:22:18.400 When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

00:22:23.900 The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

00:22:29.620 I'm Larison Campbell.

00:22:30.560 Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:22:38.240 Hi, friends.

00:22:40.240 Sophia Bush here, host of Work in Progress.

00:22:43.120 This week, we had such a special guest on the podcast.

00:22:47.500 My forever flotus, a mentor, a friend, a wife, a mother, an author, attorney, advocate, television producer.

00:22:55.180 And now she adds podcast host to the list herself.

00:22:59.880 Friends, Michelle Obama is here.

00:23:01.960 Sophia, I'm beyond thrilled to be able to sit down and chat with you.

00:23:05.680 We talk about it all.

00:23:07.600 Life, love, motherhood, martinis.

00:23:10.520 Vodka martini, dry, straight up, olives.

00:23:13.320 Ooh, olives.

00:23:14.440 Very cold.

00:23:15.800 My girl.

00:23:16.800 Barely any vermouth.

00:23:18.200 What's next?

00:23:19.420 What she's watching on TV.

00:23:21.420 I am a white lotuser.

00:23:22.940 I am a real housewives person.

00:23:25.720 I love the dating shows.

00:23:27.520 And tennis.

00:23:28.500 I just find that to be a bit meditative.

00:23:31.360 You do not want to miss this.

00:23:32.980 Listen to Work in Progress on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:23:41.900 The number one hit true crime podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:23:48.780 Our first two series introduce you to an incredible gang of women who teamed up to fight injustice,

00:23:56.700 showing just how powerful sisterly solidarity can be.

00:24:00.200 We're keeping this mission alive with The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:24:04.200 Each week, a different woman sits down with me, Anna Sinfield,

00:24:07.820 to share their incredible story of triumph over adversity.

00:24:12.060 Like Luanne, who was raised in a secretive religious community.

00:24:15.440 Do I want my freedom, or do I want my family?

00:24:18.880 And found a way to escape.

00:24:20.480 When she said, you know you can leave, right?

00:24:23.260 It was a light bulb.

00:24:24.620 And now helps other women get out too.

00:24:27.100 I loved my girls.

00:24:28.500 I still love my girls.

00:24:29.700 So come and join our girl gang.

00:24:34.040 Listen to The Girlfriends Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:24:45.440 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and if you've ever felt the weight of letting go,

00:24:51.360 of people, past versions of yourself, or the expectations placed on you,

00:24:57.140 this episode is for you.

00:24:59.660 Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation,

00:25:04.300 and finding real peace in a world that constantly tries to define you.

00:25:09.220 It's not me anymore.

00:25:10.440 Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me,

00:25:13.140 and that disconnect is depressing.

00:25:14.880 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

00:25:21.320 I think it's also hard when the things that you stand for

00:25:24.720 are the same things that you're being scrutinized for.

00:25:27.000 The weight that is no longer on me is not just fat or physical.

00:25:32.080 I released so much to get to this point.

00:25:36.020 And to be honest with you, I don't feel like I've expressed myself fully in the last two years.

00:25:40.480 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:25:46.920 Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

00:25:49.840 Why is my cat not here?

00:25:51.140 And I go in and she's eating my lunch.

00:25:52.880 Or if hypnotism is real?

00:25:54.560 You will use the suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

00:25:58.120 Or what's inside a black hole?

00:25:59.780 Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.

00:26:03.100 Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Science Stuff.

00:26:07.100 Join me, Jorge Cham, as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to

00:26:11.120 about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies.

00:26:14.700 Questions like, can you survive being cryogenically frozen?

00:26:18.120 This is experimental.

00:26:19.360 This may never work for you.

00:26:20.940 What's a quantum computer?

00:26:22.380 It's not just a faster computer.

00:26:23.960 It performs in a fundamentally different way.

00:26:25.840 Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming?

00:26:28.980 It's not really a safety issue.

00:26:31.120 It's more of a comfort issue.

00:26:32.300 We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy-to-understand explanations to

00:26:36.500 fascinating scientific questions.

00:26:38.540 So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Science Stuff on the iHeart

00:26:42.860 Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:26:48.820 Yeah, no, I mean, I think you marked two profoundly consequential moments, the WTO.

00:26:53.940 It's interesting, just even talking to members of the Clinton administration, talking to former

00:26:57.760 President Clinton himself about WTO and its aftermath.

00:27:01.200 I think there's not only a reckoning in terms of our politics today and direct connection

00:27:06.980 in that respect, but I think there's a growing recognition of the outsized consequence of

00:27:13.520 the WTO.

00:27:14.180 But I also appreciate your point around the Wall Street relief and this sort of Main Street,

00:27:19.740 Wall Street frame after the financial crisis.

00:27:23.740 And obviously, the Obama administration inherited a lot of that and sort of maintained not totally

00:27:30.340 dissimilar policies as it relates to that bailout and the consequences to the populism that

00:27:36.420 we're experiencing today.

00:27:37.840 Let me just back up, just talking about the challenges of today.

00:27:41.740 I mean, knowing Donald Trump is the way you know him, how does he get out of this?

00:27:47.240 Is it just, you know, he's got 60 countries, he's got 60 leaders come in, one off.

00:27:51.560 He starts negotiating BS deals that he claims credit for having, quote unquote, succeeded

00:27:56.880 in level setting the playing field.

00:27:59.900 Or is there going to be more sweeping across the board recalibration with the EU, as an

00:28:05.300 example, or other allies?

00:28:07.860 What's your over-under in terms of the next days, not just weeks?

00:28:11.080 I mean, anything is possible, Governor Newsom.

00:28:14.100 But I'm, and I'm generally an optimist about life, but I'm pessimistic about this.

00:28:19.160 And just hear me out for a second, and I'd love to get you to react to it.

00:28:23.480 We've had a bipartisan commitment to this economic geopolitical footprint.

00:28:30.300 We've had a bipartisan commitment on containment, the NATO security umbrella, the free trading

00:28:36.300 mechanisms around the world, America absorbing some of that because we're the richest nation.

00:28:41.800 And he's ending all of that.

00:28:43.680 He's ending all of that very abruptly, and he's doing it in a way that's raising risk

00:28:48.820 premium around the world.

00:28:50.100 So said differently, if I was a European leader, I'd be like, okay, whoa, it's not just Donald

00:28:54.980 Trump.

00:28:55.340 50% of the people voted for him.

00:28:57.760 There's something wrong in the body politic in the US now that's going to make the US a

00:29:03.080 little bit more arbitrary and a little bit more capricious in its decision making.

00:29:07.620 Unless you're telling me we can find a transformative postpartisan leader that can galvanize the

00:29:13.940 Americans again.

00:29:15.000 If I'm in Europe, I'm like, okay, I got to have other options now.

00:29:18.200 And I think the market is signaling, even if Trump tomorrow says, okay, EU, here's this

00:29:24.420 deal.

00:29:24.860 And China, here's that deal.

00:29:26.500 And oh, by the way, I waved my beautiful magic wand.

00:29:30.000 Here's the new tablet coming down from Mount Stupidity.

00:29:32.860 And here's what we're going to do now.

00:29:35.560 I think he's upset the apple cart enough where you're now creating different sets of outcomes

00:29:42.700 and different sets of decision making from other responsible political leaders.

00:29:47.460 Do you think I'm going too far in thinking that?

00:29:49.600 No, I mean, I think that course was set weeks and weeks prior to the tariffs as it relates

00:29:55.680 to the reordering our alliances.

00:29:57.100 And, you know, J.D. Vance's speech in Munich, the security conference and talking down and

00:30:01.980 past our allies.

00:30:03.240 And as you said, the ambush in the oval with Zelensky and the messages that have been sent.

00:30:09.980 And I can just, let me just reinforce that point of view on the basis of the kind of outreach

00:30:15.120 that I've directly received as governor of a state that happens to be larger than 21 state

00:30:20.120 populations combined, the fifth largest economy in the world, where foreign leaders have reached

00:30:24.980 directly out to California to express that anxiety and concern from a subnational level

00:30:30.100 and look to engage us directly with all the volatility and the uncertainty, again, prior

00:30:37.460 to this tariff announcement coming from the White House.

00:30:41.240 So I think the consequences are off the charts and profound.

00:30:45.580 And it begs then this question, Anthony, you've, look, we watched Project 2025.

00:30:50.340 I felt some of us were accused of crying wolf on it.

00:30:54.320 But this sort of shock and awe, this flood in the zone, as Bannon loves to say, he has

00:31:01.340 one speeds, you know, he puts his foot on the gas.

00:31:04.200 There's no break with Trump.

00:31:06.000 Has that even surprised you to the degree that he's moved this early?

00:31:10.440 Yeah, that didn't.

00:31:12.420 I think what has surprised me, frankly, is the willing sycophants, the willing enablers.

00:31:17.520 I, I, there's usually people of conscience in the room that say, whoa, that doesn't work

00:31:23.260 for me.

00:31:23.620 You know, John, John Kelly, John Kelly fired me, Governor Newsom on the 31st of July,

00:31:29.360 uh, 2017.

00:31:30.540 We've become very close friends and, uh, and, uh, you know, we socialize together and my

00:31:35.160 wife, Deirdre and Karen and him hang out together.

00:31:37.820 And we talk about the dilemma of working with Donald Trump, you know, and, and this is a

00:31:42.940 weirdness to him.

00:31:43.580 There's like an anti, there's a conflict of voice.

00:31:46.180 I, I've been dying to ask you this question since I saw you at the night of the debate

00:31:51.280 where we, you and I were at September together in Philadelphia, both they're supporting vice

00:31:55.980 president Harris.

00:31:57.240 Uh, when he attacks you, the, the, the president, president Trump, he attacks you as a keyboard

00:32:04.860 worrying bully.

00:32:06.700 But then when he has to face you in person and thank God you're a tall SOB, you know,

00:32:11.020 cause I'm not as tall as you, at least you can stand off to him face to face.

00:32:15.440 He never attacks you face to face.

00:32:18.380 Oh, oh, Gavin, you're a great guy.

00:32:20.500 You know, this sort of stuff.

00:32:21.780 What do you make of that, sir?

00:32:23.120 If you don't mind me, I've been dying to ask you that question for six months.

00:32:26.620 Anthony, I've had, I had, for me, sort of a bookmark in history, interesting experience.

00:32:31.120 I was there near the end of the Biden administration in the Oval for about 90 minutes up in the

00:32:35.500 residence with the, with president Biden and then invited back same guy, same state, same

00:32:40.820 Democrat a few weeks later.

00:32:43.200 And I think I was the first Democrat to sit down in the Oval with Donald Trump and it was

00:32:46.920 90 plus minutes.

00:32:47.980 And, uh, they kept trying to extract us from one another.

00:32:51.440 Uh, and it was because it was deeply engaging and personal.

00:32:55.280 Uh, he's incredibly charismatic as you know, well, I hate to say this to people, but he's

00:33:01.320 a very charming guy in that interpersonal interaction.

00:33:04.760 And there's no, I doesn't, he doesn't want conflict and I'll be candid with you.

00:33:08.540 It surprised me on the Zelensky.

00:33:10.220 I call it an ambush.

00:33:11.500 I saw that more as an ambush coming from JD and the vice president than even Trump, because

00:33:18.000 it's not like Trump to do that in the Oval.

00:33:22.680 I was surprised because of the interpersonal, because he tends to like that rapport one-on-one

00:33:27.960 that said others have different theories, but it's an interesting dynamic that people

00:33:32.660 don't fully appreciate.

00:33:33.540 But, but sir, when he goes off on you on truth social with the nonsense name calling, and

00:33:39.400 then you see him like a week later or a day later in California, he acts like it didn't

00:33:44.420 happen, right?

00:33:45.440 Of course.

00:33:46.160 No.

00:33:46.400 And in fact, gets a little uncomfortable when you say, Hey, you know, what happened to the

00:33:50.680 new scum?

00:33:51.220 He's like, Oh, and he literally, that's when he's, he's sort of unmoored a little bit

00:33:54.960 because he doesn't want to engage in that.

00:33:56.820 And so look, and I think that's the difficult part is figuring out what's real, what's not,

00:34:01.760 what's performative, what's not.

00:34:03.680 I mean, for him, it's about the crowds.

00:34:05.780 I mean, he even made that point.

00:34:06.780 He goes, the crowd loves it.

00:34:08.240 And so I'm like, okay, whatever your crowd needs.

00:34:10.260 The problem is feel like it's, you know, I'm watching Gladiator three, or at least a

00:34:14.120 preview of Gladiator three with a thumbs up, thumbs down.

00:34:16.960 You don't know which direction it's going to go based upon the crowd.

00:34:20.680 And that again, begs my concern now, you know, and not just concern, but consideration of

00:34:26.020 a sort of reconsideration, how with this crowd in terms of the markets, you know, he dismisses

00:34:32.140 mother nature, but the markets can't be easily dismissed.

00:34:35.480 People's 401k, you're even seeing, it's not just Rand Paul.

00:34:39.020 There's some other Republicans that are marginally expressing concern around tariffs.

00:34:44.400 You're seeing now layoffs.

00:34:46.180 You're seeing announcements from these companies that were supposed to be spending trillions

00:34:49.820 of dollars coming in the United States now actually saying they're not going to invest

00:34:54.060 in these factories in some of these rural parts of the country.

00:34:57.420 I mean, I've got to think, and I know you're sort of challenging that, that he's got to reverse

00:35:03.020 more quickly than perhaps even you think.

00:35:07.480 No?

00:35:08.840 Yes, but I don't see how we get undamaged from this.

00:35:14.880 You know, like, you know, here's the cruel admission.

00:35:18.080 I knew how bad it was.

00:35:21.060 I endorsed President Biden in 2020.

00:35:23.800 As you know, I helped on debate prep and tried to act as a surrogate for the vice, Vice President

00:35:29.200 Harris in 2024.

00:35:30.640 You didn't try to act.

00:35:32.160 You were a surrogate and an incredibly effective one.

00:35:35.120 This is an existential crisis, sir.

00:35:37.180 This is a postpartisan thing.

00:35:39.500 What I, my message to your party is open the door, expand the tent.

00:35:45.520 Remember what Lyndon Johnson said, let's get all the elephants in the tent pissing out.

00:35:50.140 Let's not have elephants outside the tent pissing in.

00:35:53.440 Yep.

00:35:53.780 Make it a pro-democracy movement.

00:35:56.260 Make it a pro-America movement.

00:35:58.520 Make it a postpartisan transformation so that we can beat the current Whig party, which the

00:36:05.960 Whig party is the MAGA party.

00:36:08.200 It's at a step with America.

00:36:10.340 They can beat us if we are dissembling.

00:36:14.120 They can beat us if we're internecantly fighting with each other.

00:36:18.560 But if we expand the tent, and some of your friends on the liberal side don't like me because

00:36:23.480 I was with Trump.

00:36:24.520 I understand that.

00:36:26.140 But hold your nose.

00:36:28.080 Okay.

00:36:28.280 Hold your nose.

00:36:28.680 They don't like me because I shook his hand at the tarmac and return his phone calls.

00:36:36.860 I mean, which, you know, that's a deeper conversation.

00:36:39.880 And so I appreciate your friend.

00:36:41.280 I applaud you.

00:36:42.400 Look, I don't like Steve.

00:36:44.200 Okay.

00:36:45.540 Bannon, I think, is a national disgrace.

00:36:48.140 I'll just say that.

00:36:49.520 Thank God he's so ugly, frankly.

00:36:51.300 Otherwise, he could be like a more powerful figure.

00:36:53.620 I think that was the good Lord helping us.

00:36:55.420 But I'm just saying to you, I admire you having a conversation with him.

00:37:00.620 Charlie, I know forever.

00:37:01.940 I campaigned with Charlie in Pennsylvania with Trump.

00:37:05.520 He's a formidable young man.

00:37:07.180 I think he's intellectually misguided.

00:37:09.400 But I think it's important for you to speak with him.

00:37:13.860 And the fact that your base or your coalition on the Democratic side would lambaste you for

00:37:20.140 that, they are making a mistake.

00:37:21.840 Like, if Churchill could hang with Attlee to beat Hitler, okay?

00:37:29.160 And I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler.

00:37:30.540 I'm just saying we have an existential crisis going on.

00:37:34.560 He is going down Project 2025.

00:37:37.260 He wants to weaken the legislative branch.

00:37:39.780 He wants to disgrace the media, weaken it.

00:37:42.200 He wants to weaken the judicial branch.

00:37:44.380 He's going after our law firms in a way that I don't fully understand.

00:37:49.500 Yeah, by the way, and the law firms are quickly capitulating.

00:37:53.940 You're talking about Paul Weiss, Scott Amarty.

00:37:55.380 Let me restate it.

00:37:56.960 He's going after our law firms in a way that even they don't understand the long-term ramifications

00:38:02.420 of it.

00:38:03.200 There you go.

00:38:03.920 Well said.

00:38:04.320 And so, guys, let's stop fighting with each other, okay?

00:38:07.320 We love our country.

00:38:08.480 We love our system.

00:38:10.100 We like the checks and balances, the decentralized nature of the country that have allowed our

00:38:15.320 families, the Newsom family, the Scaramucci family to rise, okay, from modest beginnings,

00:38:21.620 whether they were in Ireland or they were in Italy.

00:38:24.660 Got it.

00:38:25.020 We came here for this great opportunity.

00:38:27.060 We don't want authoritarianism to spoil it.

00:38:31.280 He wants that, okay?

00:38:33.260 If you don't think he wants that, you're not paying close enough attention, and you're not

00:38:37.800 going down the list.

00:38:39.140 And somebody like you, I applaud you for bringing me on so that we can discuss this.

00:38:42.960 I admire you for bringing these other guys on that I may disagree with, but I admire

00:38:48.300 you for it because open the tent.

00:38:51.560 Let's get the people in the tent.

00:38:54.080 There's more of us that love the country, care about the country.

00:38:58.960 I may not agree with you on certain policies, so what?

00:39:02.520 We care and believe in the system together.

00:39:05.400 And I think that's the resonating message that you're going for, and I applaud you for

00:39:09.920 it.

00:39:10.020 No, and I appreciate that, and I hope our party's listening to that because this notion,

00:39:14.640 I mean, you know, this is about addition, not subtraction.

00:39:17.720 We can't afford to lose any more folks.

00:39:20.480 And I think the cornerstone of this conversation is the folks we are losing is the working class.

00:39:25.420 There's a type of soil in Mississippi called yazoo clay.

00:39:32.380 It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

00:39:36.460 It's terrible, terrible dirt.

00:39:38.100 Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried.

00:39:43.680 Until they're not.

00:39:45.640 In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

00:39:51.420 7,000 bodies out there, or more.

00:39:55.400 All former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.

00:40:00.520 It was my family's mystery.

00:40:02.800 But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

00:40:07.260 Nobody talks about it.

00:40:08.940 Nobody has any information.

00:40:10.560 When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you

00:40:15.480 think the story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

00:40:21.460 I'm Larison Campbell.

00:40:23.260 Listen to under yazoo clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your

00:40:29.460 podcast.

00:40:30.820 Hi, friends.

00:40:32.400 Sophia Bush here, host of Work in Progress.

00:40:35.220 This week, we had such a special guest on the podcast.

00:40:38.920 My forever flotus, a mentor, a friend, a wife, a mother, an author, attorney, advocate,

00:40:46.440 television producer, and now she adds podcast host to the list herself.

00:40:51.980 Friends, Michelle Obama is here.

00:40:54.300 Sophia, I'm beyond thrilled to be able to sit down and chat with you.

00:40:58.300 We talk about it all.

00:40:59.660 Life, love, motherhood, martinis.

00:41:02.700 Vodka martini, dry, straight up, olives.

00:41:05.480 Ooh, olives.

00:41:06.620 Very cold.

00:41:07.980 My girl.

00:41:09.000 Barely any vermouth.

00:41:10.380 What's next?

00:41:11.580 What she's watching on TV.

00:41:13.600 I am a white lotuser.

00:41:15.100 I am a real housewives person.

00:41:17.900 I love the dating shows.

00:41:19.680 And tennis.

00:41:20.660 I just find that to be a bit meditative.

00:41:23.760 You do not want to miss this.

00:41:25.140 Listen to Work in Progress on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your

00:41:29.980 podcasts.

00:41:31.020 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

00:41:32.380 And if you've ever felt the weight of letting go of people, past versions of yourself, or

00:41:38.600 the expectations placed on you, this episode is for you.

00:41:43.600 Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation, and finding real peace in a

00:41:50.420 world that constantly tries to define you.

00:41:53.140 It's not me anymore.

00:41:54.360 Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me.

00:41:56.860 And that disconnect is depressing.

00:42:00.300 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

00:42:05.200 I think it's also hard when the things that you stand for are the same things that you're

00:42:10.080 being scrutinized for.

00:42:10.900 The weight that is no longer on me is not just fat or physical.

00:42:16.000 I released so much to get to this point.

00:42:19.920 And to be honest with you, I don't feel like I've expressed myself fully in the last two

00:42:24.040 years.

00:42:24.400 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

00:42:29.840 you get your podcasts.

00:42:34.180 The number one hit true crime podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, the

00:42:39.940 Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:42:42.140 Our first two series introduce you to an incredible gang of women who teamed up to fight injustice,

00:42:48.980 showing just how powerful sisterly solidarity can be.

00:42:52.100 We're keeping this mission alive with The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:42:56.480 Each week, a different woman sits down with me, Anna Sinfield, to share their incredible

00:43:01.260 story of triumph over adversity.

00:43:04.320 Like Luanne, who was raised in a secretive religious community.

00:43:08.080 Do I want my freedom?

00:43:09.520 Or do I want my family?

00:43:11.160 And found a way to escape.

00:43:12.660 When she said, you know you can leave, right?

00:43:15.500 It was a light bulb.

00:43:16.880 And now helps other women get out too.

00:43:19.060 I loved my girls.

00:43:20.780 I still love my girls.

00:43:21.980 So come and join our girl gang.

00:43:26.340 Listen to The Girlfriends Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:43:32.920 Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

00:43:42.000 Why is my cat not here?

00:43:43.320 And I go in and she's eating my lunch.

00:43:45.060 Or if hypnotism is real?

00:43:46.740 You will use the suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

00:43:50.280 Or what's inside a black hole?

00:43:51.960 Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.

00:43:55.260 Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Science Stuff.

00:43:59.260 Join me, Jorge Cham, as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies.

00:44:06.860 Questions like, can you survive being cryogenically frozen?

00:44:10.320 This is experimental.

00:44:11.520 This may never work for you.

00:44:13.120 What's a quantum computer?

00:44:14.540 It's not just a faster computer.

00:44:16.140 It performs in a fundamentally different way.

00:44:18.020 Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming?

00:44:21.160 It's not really a safety issue.

00:44:23.260 It's more of a comfort issue.

00:44:24.480 We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy-to-understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions.

00:44:30.700 So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Science Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:44:37.860 Thank you.

00:45:07.860 Because I thought, and my core belief, that Joe Biden, in his four years as president, was one of the most pro-worker presidents in my lifetime.

00:45:22.080 He had an industrial policy that was worker-centered.

00:45:25.240 I mean, hell, he even walked the picket line.

00:45:26.720 The IRA, the Chips and Science Act, the bipartisan bills.

00:45:31.700 I mean, there were over 400 bipartisan bills, but infrastructure.

00:45:35.000 The fact we saw actual investments being made, again, supporting workers, supporting the heartland, supporting the folks, quote-unquote, that we lost in this election.

00:45:46.660 Did I read that wrong?

00:45:48.660 You were a supporter of Biden.

00:45:50.320 I thought we were making that point, but it seems to have been lost or at least wasn't inherited by Harris.

00:45:57.300 I don't think you're reading that wrong, but what I think we have to acknowledge, unfortunately, is that the presidency itself, to quote Theodore Roosevelt, is a bully pulpit.

00:46:09.340 And so one of the jobs of the president, he or she, is to be the great salesman or saleswoman for the country.

00:46:15.900 And the president put in the CHIPS Act, very successful.

00:46:19.920 The Inflation Reduction Act, which had all that embedded infrastructure, very successful.

00:46:24.480 There was a lot of things that he did that were pro-worker and pro-union, very successful.

00:46:30.940 But unfortunately, the president was struggling verbally by the middle of his term, and he was no longer able to passionately advocate for that.

00:46:40.740 The 65-year-old Joe Biden, if I'm just being brutally honest, would have slayed Donald Trump, stayed in the race, been able to make that argument, and built on that legislative agenda.

00:46:51.320 Now, he made that fatal Shakespearean mistake.

00:46:54.800 He should have said in September of 23, here are the 15, 20 things that I've done that have very benefited the economy.

00:47:01.720 Economy's on the uptick.

00:47:02.940 Inflation is on the downtick.

00:47:04.880 I heard the message.

00:47:06.440 I got the message from the absenteeism of us, meaning normal Democrats, absenteeism.

00:47:14.400 I got the Bernie Sanders-Trump message.

00:47:16.800 This is what I'm doing with policy to fill the space.

00:47:19.300 But I'm too old for the job.

00:47:22.180 And so it's September 2023.

00:47:24.680 I'm going to open up the primary.

00:47:27.320 Okay, not having a Democratic New Hampshire primary in 2024, again, if I'm being brutally honest or it's shameful because you're attacking Trump for his anti-democracy stance.

00:47:41.080 But then you're saying, well, we're not going to have a primary.

00:47:43.380 Well, you know what?

00:47:44.380 Even Jimmy Carter had that primary against Teddy Kennedy.

00:47:48.180 And I think it's a mistake.

00:47:51.140 And so I don't want to go back and re-litigate the whole thing.

00:47:54.540 I respect the Biden family.

00:47:56.400 I'm not trying to do that.

00:47:57.620 But I'm saying going forward, you guys got to get it together.

00:48:01.660 And you've got to coalesce around a national figure that can offer the dissent, that can offer the opposition.

00:48:11.600 Now, he's blown – I'm looking over the camera here to see CNBC.

00:48:16.740 He's blown the doors off the global economy.

00:48:20.040 He's blown the doors off the stock market.

00:48:22.100 We're plus 50% now, greater likelihood to have a recession.

00:48:27.760 The poly market's saying four rate cuts, sir.

00:48:30.100 So that's a first quarter of 26 recession.

00:48:33.920 And so get it together.

00:48:36.020 Beat these guys in the midterms.

00:48:38.180 Get it together and put up a candidate to box these guys out in 28 so that the situation doesn't get worse.

00:48:46.680 And Anthony, let me ask you a question.

00:48:47.660 I mean, it's tactical, and I want to talk a little bit about your perspective on Harris and the outcome,

00:48:54.780 because I think you were like me that we felt more confident than certainly the outcome.

00:49:00.500 But in terms of the guy or gal on the white horse to come save the day, I know parties tend to focus so much on that.

00:49:07.620 And my party, Democratic Party, seems disproportionately always focused on the person on the white horse to save us.

00:49:13.880 It seems to me, over the years, the Republican Party has been a little bit more structurally focused on school boards

00:49:20.720 and focusing on legislative races in states large and small.

00:49:26.100 A bottom-up frame, not necessarily a top-down.

00:49:29.520 Operation Red Map, sir.

00:49:31.220 You know the coinage of that term, right?

00:49:34.000 They said, okay, we've got to get into those state legislatures.

00:49:38.160 They'll help us gerrymander these districts.

00:49:40.020 And we'll, even though we're a minority party in terms of registrations, let's organize and we'll beat these guys by using the tyranny of the minority, right?

00:49:50.240 The founders were worried about the tyranny of the majority, but the Republicans organized and asserted themselves using the tyranny of the minority.

00:49:58.300 That's a fascinating point that you're bringing up.

00:50:00.600 Yeah, and so it's interesting.

00:50:02.300 For me, it's both and.

00:50:03.760 And one of the things that I caution my party about is if we're too fixated on a personality, then we're missing the opportunity to sort of reimagine our party.

00:50:13.700 Because there's bigger trend lines here that sort of predate COVID and even Trump as it relates to, you know, starting to lose this multi-ethnic young men in particular across the spectrum.

00:50:26.040 Some of that was arrested because of COVID and Trump, but that trend line is now a big headline.

00:50:31.540 And I'm curious, you know, your sort of reflection on that, but also reflection on where Harris may have struggled.

00:50:38.340 Was it just the 107 days?

00:50:40.400 Was it the lack of an open primary?

00:50:42.660 Was it the fact she didn't distinguish herself enough and separate herself enough from an incumbent?

00:50:48.240 Was it the issue of incumbency?

00:50:50.540 Was it inflation?

00:50:51.580 Was it interest rates?

00:50:52.500 Was it immigration?

00:50:53.200 Was it wokeism, broadly defined?

00:50:56.140 Have you landed on any theory of the case of what the hell happened in that election?

00:51:01.480 So let me give you three things.

00:51:03.040 Some of them are going to be controversial for your party.

00:51:05.240 And so, you know, you're probably going to get some negative press me saying this on your air.

00:51:09.720 And I apologize to you in advance.

00:51:12.060 But I hope the people listening will be open-minded because I want you to win.

00:51:16.620 You have to slay this MAGA party.

00:51:20.000 This is no longer the Republican Party I lived in, sir.

00:51:22.480 This has been decapitated, hostile takeover, third-party insurgency has changed this into a Frankenstein monster, a Frankenstein monster of anti-democracy.

00:51:33.600 So we have to beat them.

00:51:35.180 So I would say let's leave off the table of the open primary.

00:51:39.800 It didn't happen.

00:51:40.640 And I think we would have liked to have seen that starting in September of 23, and that would have built up a case and somebody would have got to the top of the pecking order.

00:51:49.920 That would have fortified that candidate.

00:51:51.300 But in the 107 days, I'll just make three very close observations.

00:51:57.800 Number one, the vice president is a very competent, very capable leader.

00:52:01.900 But she was not a great risk taker in that moment.

00:52:06.320 Unfortunately, to rise to the presidency now, it requires exogenous risk.

00:52:11.520 If you've got a group of handlers around, you say, don't go on Rogan.

00:52:14.880 Don't go on this person.

00:52:16.540 Don't go on that person.

00:52:18.160 Yeah.

00:52:18.260 Fox News one time, not 25 times.

00:52:21.980 If I were her, I would have said, hey, every morning I'm going to be on Fox News.

00:52:25.780 I'm going to eventually chum up to those anchors that hate me, and I'm going to get some messaging out there where people will see that I'm not the demon that they're trying to present me as.

00:52:34.480 You see what I mean?

00:52:35.280 I would have said, hey, Fox News, I want to be on every day.

00:52:39.320 These podcasts that people are excoriating me, these alpha bro podcasts, at least once or twice a week.

00:52:46.380 Okay, so she was not a risk taker.

00:52:48.600 That's number one.

00:52:49.780 Number two, Robert Caro, in his books on Lyndon Johnson, which I think are some of the best biography ever written, he describes Humphrey's situation with Johnson.

00:53:00.380 He didn't break from Johnson.

00:53:02.060 Johnson comes out of the race in 68.

00:53:04.820 Humphrey waits till October 1st to break from Johnson.

00:53:08.780 He's not even willing to do it then.

00:53:10.120 He's such a gentleman.

00:53:11.500 Johnson brings him into the Oval Office and says, you got to break from me.

00:53:15.460 You want to blankety-blank on me on the Vietnam War, blankety-blank on this, blankety-blank on that.

00:53:21.180 You got to do it.

00:53:23.140 And so he starts that process in October.

00:53:26.720 It's too late.

00:53:28.680 And unfortunately, the vice president's respect for Joe Biden, that infamous line that she says on The View,

00:53:35.520 I can't think of anything I would have done differently, is harmful to her because we're in an anti-incumbency moment.

00:53:41.700 And she needed to do what Johnson suggested to Humphrey.

00:53:46.120 But in Humphrey's case, it was too late, sir.

00:53:49.140 The polls were closing.

00:53:50.720 He was catching Nixon when he made that break, but it was too late.

00:53:54.740 And then the third thing, and I know this is really going to drive everybody crazy,

00:53:59.140 so you have a fire extinguisher behind you in case your hair sets on fire?

00:54:02.640 Because the third thing is really bad.

00:54:05.040 You're okay?

00:54:05.460 Okay, I just want to make sure you're in a flame-retardant vest there.

00:54:10.280 Let's do it.

00:54:10.940 Let's hear it.

00:54:11.440 Okay, the third thing is how on God's earth do you let Bobby and Elon out of the party?

00:54:18.400 Interesting.

00:54:18.720 How do you guys do this?

00:54:19.880 Okay.

00:54:20.640 I wasn't expecting that.

00:54:21.960 I'm sorry?

00:54:22.420 Interesting.

00:54:23.000 I wasn't expecting you to say that.

00:54:24.740 Okay, but how do you guys do that?

00:54:26.640 Okay, Bobby is a Kennedy.

00:54:28.640 Yeah.

00:54:28.980 Whole family's tied to the party.

00:54:31.700 Yeah.

00:54:31.920 He actually wants to stay in the party, and I know this because he endorsed the back of

00:54:37.240 my Bitcoin book, okay?

00:54:38.880 And I know Bobby forever from New York.

00:54:42.120 How do you let Bobby out of the party, okay?

00:54:44.680 And even if you don't like Bobby or you think he's a kook with the vaccines, you open the

00:54:50.100 tent, keep him in the party because he's got that bro connectivity that costs you a few

00:54:57.040 points where you don't want them.

00:54:59.380 Right.

00:54:59.520 And Elon, I don't care what the UAW is saying or whoever told Biden to disinvite Elon from

00:55:06.940 the electric vehicle summit.

00:55:08.380 I don't know who it was, but President Biden should, look, man, I'm sorry.

00:55:12.120 The guy's the richest guy in the country.

00:55:14.200 He's got a $44 billion bullhorn, and he's coming to the party.

00:55:19.160 He also created the space.

00:55:20.940 How the hell do you have an electric vehicle?

00:55:23.100 You don't have to sit next to the guy, and you may not like him because he doesn't have

00:55:26.540 a union shop, but he's our guy, and we got to keep him in the party.

00:55:31.440 And so those two guys, they hurt you in Pennsylvania.

00:55:36.200 Elon hurts you in Pennsylvania.

00:55:37.940 Yeah.

00:55:38.360 He hurts you in the Twitterverse or whatever you want to call it with the toxic algorithm.

00:55:44.400 And Bobby hurts you.

00:55:45.780 And I'm just submitting, again, this is the indictment of your party, if I could be bold

00:55:50.580 enough to say this to you respectfully.

00:55:52.280 Sure, sure.

00:55:52.860 Yeah.

00:55:53.420 Open the tent.

00:55:55.080 Hold your nose.

00:55:56.080 If somebody like me wants to help you, invite me in.

00:55:59.820 I will try to help you.

00:56:01.560 Get those guys back in the party.

00:56:03.300 I know you want to cancel them now.

00:56:04.720 You want to blow up Tesla vehicles and so on and so forth.

00:56:08.020 Yeah.

00:56:08.320 Get Elon back.

00:56:09.800 Okay?

00:56:10.160 Calm down.

00:56:11.440 Calm down.

00:56:12.160 He's shooting rockets into space.

00:56:13.840 He's got an environmentally friendly vehicle that he's made, which you guys used to buy

00:56:19.340 in droves.

00:56:20.520 Let's calm him down.

00:56:22.020 Let's disengage him from where he is right now.

00:56:24.940 Get him back to neutral.

00:56:26.920 Because those three things hurt Harris.

00:56:29.580 No risk taking.

00:56:30.980 No break from Humphrey.

00:56:32.880 And how the hell do you let Bobby and Elon out of that party?

00:56:36.440 It's interesting.

00:56:36.880 And the fact that you attach, I mean, the first two, I certainly appreciate.

00:56:42.880 But it's interesting.

00:56:43.620 You thought it was that determinative, these two individuals, these brands and what they

00:56:48.120 represent historically and iconically.

00:56:50.360 Both, interestingly, two people that are best known for their environmental stewardship.

00:56:55.760 They were Democrats.

00:56:56.900 For decades.

00:56:57.580 Governor Newsom, they were Democrats.

00:56:59.040 By the way, I can't tell you how many events I had with both of them in San Francisco as mayor

00:57:05.080 of the city talking about environmental stewardship, climate change, and issues related to low carbon

00:57:10.580 green growth and electric vehicle transition.

00:57:12.680 What he did in Lancaster County with the Amish was, you know, to quote him, because he says he's on the spectrum.

00:57:19.200 Okay.

00:57:19.720 It was on the spectrum.

00:57:21.140 Beautiful.

00:57:22.160 He got them all in vans.

00:57:24.480 He told them that the unpasteurized milk that they were pumping out of their dairy farms was going to be destroyed.

00:57:30.360 It was misinformation.

00:57:31.660 That was, you know, he gets a red card for that.

00:57:35.320 He says that Biden's going to come after them with that.

00:57:37.660 And then he gets them in a van because they can only take the horse and buggy unless they're not driving.

00:57:42.020 And he drives them over to the voting, and there's 99,000 of them who vote for Trump.

00:57:48.100 And I'm telling you, this is a game of inches.

00:57:51.300 You know this.

00:57:52.000 I know this.

00:57:53.080 I've worked on six presidential campaigns in the last 24 years.

00:57:59.700 It is a game of inches.

00:58:01.360 It's a game of risk-taking.

00:58:03.880 It's a game of calculated risk-taking.

00:58:06.280 But when you've got guys on your team that you may not like, don't be so righteous.

00:58:11.860 Bring them into the tent.

00:58:13.040 You know, I was told that some of the campaign guys wanted me on the campaign plane,

00:58:18.000 and there were hardcore lefties that were like NFW with that guy.

00:58:21.640 He once worked for Donald Trump.

00:58:24.160 Guys, give that up.

00:58:26.020 Release the anger, and let's study the existential threat and work together.

00:58:31.400 There's a type of soil in Mississippi called yazoo clay.

00:58:38.420 It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

00:58:42.440 It's terrible, terrible dirt.

00:58:44.080 Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried.

00:58:49.680 Until they're not.

00:58:51.240 In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

00:58:57.640 7,000 bodies out there, or more?

00:59:01.400 All former patients of the old state asylum.

00:59:04.640 And nobody knew they were there.

00:59:06.520 It was my family's mystery.

00:59:08.800 But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

00:59:13.260 Nobody talks about it.

00:59:14.940 Nobody has any information.

00:59:16.560 When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's yazoo clay,

00:59:19.900 nothing's ever as simple as you think.

00:59:21.820 The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

00:59:27.840 I'm Larison Campbell.

00:59:28.720 Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

00:59:36.020 Hi, friends.

00:59:38.380 Sophia Bush here, host of Work in Progress.

00:59:41.280 This week, we had such a special guest on the podcast.

00:59:45.660 My forever flotus, a mentor, a friend, a wife, a mother, an author, attorney, advocate, television producer,

00:59:53.340 and now she adds podcast host to the list herself.

00:59:58.000 Friends, Michelle Obama is here.

01:00:00.260 Sophia, I'm beyond thrilled to be able to sit down and chat with you.

01:00:04.300 We talk about it all.

01:00:05.660 Life, love, motherhood, martinis.

01:00:08.700 Vodka martini, dry, straight up, olives.

01:00:11.480 Ooh, olives.

01:00:12.580 Very cold.

01:00:14.020 My girl.

01:00:14.980 Barely any vermouth.

01:00:16.380 What's next?

01:00:17.580 What she's watching on TV.

01:00:19.580 I am a white lotuser.

01:00:21.100 I am a real housewives person.

01:00:23.880 I love the dating shows.

01:00:25.680 And tennis.

01:00:26.660 I just find that to be a bit meditative.

01:00:29.740 You do not want to miss this.

01:00:30.880 Listen to Work in Progress on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:00:36.500 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and if you've ever felt the weight of letting go, of people, past versions of yourself,

01:00:44.180 or the expectations placed on you, this episode is for you.

01:00:49.560 Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation, and finding real peace in a world that constantly tries to define you.

01:00:59.120 It's not me anymore.

01:01:00.340 Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me, and that disconnect is depressing.

01:01:06.500 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

01:01:11.260 I think it's also hard when the things that you stand for are the same things that you're being scrutinized for.

01:01:16.900 The weight that is no longer on me is not just fat or physical.

01:01:21.980 I released so much to get to this point.

01:01:25.920 And to be honest with you, I don't feel like I've expressed myself fully in the last two years.

01:01:30.380 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:01:37.100 The number one hit true crime podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, The Girlfriends Spotlight.

01:01:48.160 Our first two series introduce you to an incredible gang of women who teamed up to fight injustice,

01:01:54.920 showing just how powerful sisterly solidarity can be.

01:01:58.340 We're keeping this mission alive with The Girlfriends Spotlight.

01:02:01.480 Each week, a different woman sits down with me, Anna Sinfield, to share their incredible story of triumph over adversity.

01:02:10.300 Like June, who founded an all-female rock band in the 1960s.

01:02:15.160 I might as well have said, we're going to walk on the moon.

01:02:18.560 But she sure showed them who's boss, and toured the world.

01:02:22.300 They would just be gobsmacked, and they would rush up after the set and say, not bad for chicks.

01:02:28.300 So come and join our girl gang.

01:02:32.180 Listen to The Girlfriends Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:02:58.300 Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart Original Podcast, Science Stuff.

01:03:05.460 Join me, Jorge Cham, as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies.

01:03:12.780 Questions like, can you survive being cryogenically frozen?

01:03:16.180 This is experimental. This may never work for you.

01:03:19.020 What's a quantum computer?

01:03:20.460 It's not just a faster computer. It performs in a fundamentally different way.

01:03:23.900 Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming?

01:03:26.900 It's not really a safety issue. It's more of a comfort issue.

01:03:30.600 We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy-to-understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions.

01:03:36.620 So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Science Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:03:43.780 And that disappoints me to hear you say that, but it doesn't shock me.

01:03:51.180 I mean, and it disappoints me because I saw how hard you worked for Biden, and then how hard and sincerely you worked for Harris,

01:03:57.920 and how you've been a pretty consistent and vocal opponent of Donald Trump.

01:04:02.980 And with your insight...

01:04:04.020 Because it's not even Republicanism, sir.

01:04:06.340 It is a perverse form of populism, and I'm going to give you a new word, okay?

01:04:14.240 And I didn't know the definition of this word, but I know it now.

01:04:17.720 Do you know what the word autarky means?

01:04:20.100 A-U-T-A-R-K-Y.

01:04:22.780 Do you know what that means?

01:04:23.480 You got me. You stumped me. What is it?

01:04:25.080 Okay, so I didn't know what it meant either, okay?

01:04:26.700 Someone had to explain it to me.

01:04:28.420 A-U-T-A-R-K-Y.

01:04:31.340 It means an autonomous economic system.

01:04:35.920 So Trump wants to create an American autarky.

01:04:40.320 He wants to wall us off literally and physically from the rest of the world.

01:04:46.080 He wants to disengage America.

01:04:48.040 It would be as if Huey Long or Charles Lindbergh beat Franklin Roosevelt and created the America First movement in the 1930s.

01:04:56.740 This is what this guy wants to do, okay?

01:05:00.240 And I'm telling you, this is an existential threat to our children and our grandchildren.

01:05:06.880 Put down the swords.

01:05:08.740 Let's work together.

01:05:10.460 Let's figure out how AOC and Bernie can build this coalition alongside of whatever you're representing.

01:05:16.740 And frankly, alongside of whatever Christie, myself, and Kissinger and Cheney are representing.

01:05:23.600 And let's lock forces.

01:05:26.220 Remember, the Whigs got destroyed by a new party called the Republicans.

01:05:31.500 They got destroyed by that party because they created a new party in 1856.

01:05:36.320 They went after the abolitionists that were Democrats.

01:05:39.440 And they went after the Whigs that wanted abolition.

01:05:42.240 And they created this new party.

01:05:44.560 And they got a guy named Abraham Lincoln elected the first Republican president.

01:05:49.780 The new Whig party is the MAGA party, which has the Republican name in name only.

01:05:57.580 They're the true rhinos, Governor Newsom.

01:06:00.100 They're MAGA Republicans in name only.

01:06:02.980 Let's team up and let's build a coalition that is a plurality, a majority, to restore confidence

01:06:12.800 in America globally, to restore confidence in America economically.

01:06:16.980 And then once we look at the burning of the House, let's fix parts of the House with maybe some

01:06:24.040 constitutional amendments, maybe some policies or laws that will benefit all of us and make

01:06:29.960 us safer in sort of a new American social contract.

01:06:33.680 Well, you're not going to get an argument from me.

01:06:35.620 And I'm not that old, but I'm old enough to remember that that's the Democratic Party

01:06:40.500 you were referencing that built the middle class, that gave us the weekends, that gave

01:06:45.480 us Medicaid, gave us Medicare.

01:06:47.700 How about the GI Bill, sir?

01:06:49.180 Thank you.

01:06:49.780 You can go on and on and on.

01:06:51.020 The GI Bill transformed everything.

01:06:52.080 That was a Democrat idea.

01:06:54.860 And the GI Bill took Jewish tailors from the Lower East Side and turned their children

01:06:59.660 into doctors.

01:07:00.540 It took Italian construction workers and turned their sons and daughters into accountants,

01:07:06.980 lawyers or doctors.

01:07:07.820 We had an ethnic middle class movement driven mostly by Democrat policy in the post-World

01:07:17.360 War II era that gave opportunity to people that didn't have it in the old country and didn't

01:07:24.160 frankly have it in America prior to that.

01:07:27.860 That's the idealism of your party.

01:07:30.280 That's the Jack Kennedy vision of your party.

01:07:34.060 Amen.

01:07:34.740 Man, look, let me ask you just a couple of tactical points.

01:07:39.140 And I appreciate the larger tent framework.

01:07:41.620 I think this party needs a vision.

01:07:43.500 It needs an economic vision.

01:07:45.960 I think if you're going to talk about Kennedy, he was the last president to bring us on a

01:07:50.380 journey together.

01:07:51.480 We saw ourselves on that journey.

01:07:54.160 And I think that's a big part of also what's missing.

01:07:57.540 What's the positive alternative vision that can enliven and excite people and people feel

01:08:02.600 included at a time of such division and fear and anxiety.

01:08:06.880 But there's also the fear and anxiety and division that comes from the information superiority

01:08:12.160 on the other side as well.

01:08:13.860 The weaponization of grievance, the ability to surround sound, to dominate the narrative,

01:08:19.760 to flood the zone in terms of communication.

01:08:22.420 You've got sort of a gender bias, I would argue, algorithms that skew as well.

01:08:27.320 Online, you've got 14 of the top 15 cable shows are all Republican shows.

01:08:32.840 Podcasts are dominated, as you say.

01:08:35.980 It's not just that manosphere, the bro culture, but sort of dominated by more moderate to conservative

01:08:40.620 to ultra-conservative voices.

01:08:42.420 What do you make of that landscape?

01:08:45.380 And what's, if you were going to just observe as a participant, you've got two podcasts,

01:08:49.940 successful podcasts.

01:08:51.260 You're out there.

01:08:52.400 You've been in the media dominating for decades, back to your CNBC days.

01:08:56.880 I remember a few decades ago.

01:08:58.980 I mean, what do you make of this environment?

01:09:00.900 And what do you make of, how do we begin to sort of reconcile with that?

01:09:06.200 And how do we sort of address the reckoning that is that asymmetry?

01:09:10.280 Well, I mean, it's such a great question on so many levels and so many different layers,

01:09:14.560 but I'll just add one thing to it.

01:09:16.460 While the conservatives are dominating podcasting, and let's be honest, they are dominating cable

01:09:22.160 news, mostly through Fox, they say the corrupt mainstream media is against us.

01:09:28.640 But in the meantime, the media, it's almost like the typewriter business, right?

01:09:33.080 The big media is dying, okay?

01:09:36.460 And the reason why I applaud you starting this podcast is you're going to reach a lot

01:09:40.440 of people because they can download you on their phone, they can go for a walk, they

01:09:44.720 can hear what you're saying, and they'll say, okay, I like that one.

01:09:47.760 And then they forward it to five of their friends.

01:09:49.420 It's like that old shampoo commercial.

01:09:51.600 And so what I would say to the Democrats, start over.

01:09:55.180 Okay?

01:09:55.440 Be the engineers.

01:09:57.080 And you remember that movie, Brian Grazer, Ron Howard, Apollo 13, Tom Hanks plays Jim

01:10:02.900 Lovell, be the engineers that go into the room and say, here's the tools on the table.

01:10:08.900 We have to reinvent ourselves.

01:10:10.940 Forget the mainstream media.

01:10:12.500 Forget the old totems.

01:10:14.800 Let's be engineers.

01:10:16.140 Let's be scientific marketing engineers, media engineers.

01:10:20.360 How would we reinvent ourselves today?

01:10:23.620 And what would we do?

01:10:24.440 What podcast would we have?

01:10:25.700 What business podcast would we have?

01:10:27.800 What messaging do we want out there?

01:10:30.480 How do we stop attacking each other?

01:10:33.180 The Republicans have done a very good job of not attacking each other.

01:10:38.100 Okay?

01:10:38.360 I find it curious that Bannon goes after Musk.

01:10:41.940 Okay?

01:10:42.480 Because I know Bannon well.

01:10:44.040 I work with Bannon on the 2016 campaign.

01:10:46.320 He's going after Musk for many different reasons, but he knows that Musk is not pure MAGA.

01:10:52.980 He knows this.

01:10:54.440 Okay?

01:10:54.660 He knows Musk is reacting to what happened to him in the world of the blue world.

01:11:00.700 He moved into the red world or the dark MAGA world, whatever he calls it, because of what

01:11:05.040 happened to him in the blue world.

01:11:06.820 So get to the table like the engineers on Apollo 13.

01:11:10.960 Let's start from scratch.

01:11:12.980 Let's have a summit.

01:11:14.220 You call the summit.

01:11:15.240 I'll be there, and let's start a laboratory of ideas to beat this back, because the average

01:11:22.740 American is kind.

01:11:25.260 The average American does not want to play the victim.

01:11:28.280 The average American is aspirational, and the average American believes in lifting the

01:11:34.260 boats of others.

01:11:35.080 You know, the Marshall law, the Marshall plan, excuse me, passed because the average American

01:11:41.060 looked at the landscape of the world and said, the world needs this, and if it's good for

01:11:46.380 the world, it's going to be good for us.

01:11:47.820 And you know, Governor Newsom, you're at your best when you're helping other people.

01:11:53.260 Americans know this.

01:11:55.280 Americans get their best feeling on the side of giving.

01:11:58.420 Donald Trump has set up an America, and I'm going to give you these two allegories.

01:12:03.320 You have one blue-collar family where the young man in the blue-collar family rises to great

01:12:08.760 success, and he pays for some tuitions, Governor Newsom.

01:12:11.960 He buys a car.

01:12:13.620 He helps people with medical expenses because he's the one rich person in the otherwise blue-collar

01:12:19.460 family.

01:12:20.420 Imagine the second family where the same thing happens, but the man or the woman builds this

01:12:26.080 beautiful swimming pool and this great mansion, and then they charge their family members to

01:12:31.320 come into the swimming pool.

01:12:32.280 Hey, Gav, you want to come to my swimming pool?

01:12:34.420 It's 25 bucks.

01:12:36.460 Which family is going to do better?

01:12:39.200 Which family?

01:12:40.500 Yeah.

01:12:40.740 Okay?

01:12:41.060 And the Democrats know this.

01:12:43.020 The Democrats know this in their bone marrow.

01:12:45.880 Get back to the table.

01:12:47.800 This is what we represent.

01:12:49.860 This is the party that built the United Nations.

01:12:53.060 This is the party that laid the framework at Bretton Woods for the IMF and the World Bank.

01:12:58.020 Okay?

01:12:59.180 And by the way, globalism, I maintain, just has bad marketing.

01:13:03.400 Okay?

01:13:03.740 Because the globalism has led to rising living standards here in the United States, elsewhere,

01:13:10.240 better health standards, less pestilence.

01:13:14.000 It has actually worked.

01:13:16.480 We just got really bad marketing people involved with this.

01:13:19.340 Get back to the table, and let's brush up on this.

01:13:23.240 And I think the counter-narrative would blow the doors off these people.

01:13:26.680 They are in the minority, by the way.

01:13:28.400 When, final question, just because I'm curious.

01:13:33.040 I mean, when the dust settles on Trump, Trumpism then is top of mind.

01:13:39.780 And what's top of mind for a lot of folks out there that are whispering is, what's J.D.

01:13:44.600 Vance up to?

01:13:45.800 You know, you talk about Elon Musk.

01:13:47.720 You talk about others that really supported his nomination for vice president.

01:13:54.440 Members of Trump's own family, Peter Thiel types, and others.

01:13:59.280 You've got Bannon out there, either performatively or very seriously making the case.

01:14:07.100 2028, Donald Trump extending term, or it's Vance, and then he'll step aside and will continue

01:14:14.960 MAGA for another four years.

01:14:17.800 I mean, what do you make of the 2028 third term?

01:14:20.660 What do you make of J.D. Vance?

01:14:21.960 How serious and concerned are you about J.D.

01:14:25.060 Vance and what he represents and the people that are his closest confidants and allies?

01:14:30.400 Well, I mean, so you know from California, these guys are Curtis Yarvin, post-democracy

01:14:36.600 sort of people.

01:14:37.420 They believe in a monarchical structure.

01:14:39.860 That would be Thiel and Musk.

01:14:41.400 And J.D.

01:14:41.760 Vance is an acolyte of that, which is why they put him in there.

01:14:44.840 It's interesting.

01:14:45.320 I really feel Trump made that decision distracted by a bullet that whizzed by his ear.

01:14:51.260 He only had 72 hours to compose himself prior to the convention, and I think he made that

01:14:56.500 decision.

01:14:56.860 I don't think he likes Vance.

01:14:58.040 He's been pretty clear when he says, is he my successor?

01:15:01.240 He says no.

01:15:02.460 He slammed Vance after the Margaret Brennan Sunday morning show where Vance said, we're

01:15:07.320 going to pardon the nonviolent J6ers.

01:15:11.400 Trump got pissed at him and pardoned everybody.

01:15:15.100 So you remember that scene in Fargo with the wood chipper?

01:15:18.900 Vance is going in the Donald Trump wood chipper.

01:15:21.560 Just a matter of time because he's too close to power.

01:15:25.660 Trump doesn't like anybody near his spotlight, as you know.

01:15:29.280 And so he'll do to Vance what he did to Pence.

01:15:31.620 So I'm not as concerned about Vance as other people.

01:15:36.980 The third term thing I do believe people should take seriously.

01:15:40.960 He's 82 when he aspires to that third term.

01:15:44.660 That's good for America that he's that old.

01:15:47.060 But I think you have to take that seriously.

01:15:50.200 And you have to take seriously that the stuff that he's doing to weaken America, you know,

01:15:55.800 I'm in the category that you'd have to have at least a 5% probability that he tries to call

01:16:01.500 off an election.

01:16:02.860 Other people will find that incredulous.

01:16:04.560 But I think you got to get it out there because there's a law of reflexivity, Gavin.

01:16:08.900 If you get that out there, people will start socializing it.

01:16:12.200 And then they'll plan themselves to attack that.

01:16:14.940 If I talk to somebody and say, well, that's never going to happen.

01:16:17.780 Well, then you don't know Donald Trump.

01:16:19.500 So many things have happened in the last 10 years that I literally looked right down the

01:16:24.560 barrel of a camera and said, that's never going to happen.

01:16:27.140 And then two months later, it happens.

01:16:29.280 So I've got 5% he's going for the third term, okay?

01:16:33.940 And I've got, you know, some percentage that he could not even have, try to pretend that

01:16:39.140 he can't have an election.

01:16:40.320 I do think the country's strong enough to stop that, but I have to throw that out there.

01:16:44.820 But I do think Vance goes into the whip chipper.

01:16:46.880 By the way, he's unpopular.

01:16:48.620 He looks terrible.

01:16:50.360 And if he wants to out Trump, Trump, shave your beard, buddy, because the beard looks terrible

01:16:55.340 and Trump doesn't like the beard.

01:16:57.300 And I'm just letting you know, you're not, you know, going to Greenland like you did and

01:17:01.020 going to Space Force, you really look like a dummy.

01:17:04.100 So I'm not worried about him.

01:17:06.160 What I'm worried about is that younger movement.

01:17:09.920 I am worried about the Charlie Kerr.

01:17:11.700 I am worried about the podcasters that are out there that are strong, vigorous guys and

01:17:19.480 girls that are incredibly smart.

01:17:22.220 And you guys need a counterdote to that.

01:17:24.540 And so let's get to work on that, you know?

01:17:26.260 No, that's why.

01:17:27.160 That's one of the reasons.

01:17:28.280 I mean, that's precisely why I'm trying to invite these folks in.

01:17:31.860 So we start to understand how potent and powerful they've increasingly become.

01:17:36.440 Final, final.

01:17:37.420 Over under.

01:17:38.240 Musk is gone in two months.

01:17:42.460 Rubio, two months.

01:17:43.920 What?

01:17:44.080 I mean, what's your over under on some of these sort of key players around Trump?

01:17:47.620 Because remember, they have to own the libs, right?

01:17:49.380 So Walsh can get on signal.

01:17:52.320 He's texting Jeff Goldberg like war plans.

01:17:55.140 And then it turns out he's using Gmail for all of the other stuff.

01:17:58.380 So, you know, they're upset with Hillary Clinton for some reason, but then they're doing worse

01:18:02.240 than what she did.

01:18:03.200 And so he can't fire Walsh because he can't, Walsh, because he can't give a liberal a scalp.

01:18:09.920 You know, we got to own the libs.

01:18:11.220 Remember, he is the Napoleon of the culture war, Donald Trump.

01:18:15.440 Okay?

01:18:15.720 So you guys have to find Wellington.

01:18:17.600 But he's the Napoleon.

01:18:19.120 So we can't, you know, we got to own the libs first before we do anything else, right?

01:18:22.480 We got to run the ads on the transgender athletics, even though it's a small group of people,

01:18:27.200 to trigger everybody, right?

01:18:28.780 So that guy's not getting fired, right?

01:18:31.580 So what Trump is pushing and what you have to be worried about, in my opinion, is that

01:18:40.380 persistent culture.

01:18:41.420 You guys seem to be one step behind him in every culture war, you know?

01:18:46.780 I mean, Bill's going to have dinner with him.

01:18:49.500 Okay?

01:18:49.780 Bill's on your team, by the way.

01:18:51.100 Don't let Bill go the way of Elon Musk and Bobby.

01:18:54.660 You're talking Bill Maher.

01:18:56.020 Yeah, Bill Maher.

01:18:56.740 Yeah, don't let him go the way of Elon Musk and Bobby.

01:18:58.380 Give him, when you're done with me podcasting, pick up the phone, call Bill, say, dude, let's

01:19:03.740 go have lunch.

01:19:04.600 Calm down.

01:19:05.640 Okay?

01:19:05.920 He's coming on the pod soon, so we'll talk about that dinner.

01:19:07.760 I'm sure he had Beef Wellington in the White House, because Trump eats that every night

01:19:10.700 for dinner.

01:19:11.680 Calm down.

01:19:12.660 Okay?

01:19:12.980 And come back to the fold here, Billy, because we need you and you need us.

01:19:17.780 Yeah.

01:19:17.980 You don't want to go down this path.

01:19:19.760 We need Bill Maher.

01:19:20.860 I absolutely agree with that.

01:19:22.560 All right.

01:19:22.820 And by the way, you did great on his show the other night.

01:19:24.780 I mean, you're very realistic, you know?

01:19:26.140 And I've been on his show many times, but dude, you know, don't let him go that way,

01:19:31.860 man.

01:19:32.180 Not right now.

01:19:32.840 I hear what you're saying.

01:19:35.200 No, and I lied about the final, final.

01:19:37.920 This is the final, final.

01:19:39.000 Because I want to pick up, what you just said is really important and looking for advice

01:19:43.280 here.

01:19:43.920 Because I'm a practitioner in this respect as governor of this state.

01:19:48.060 I mean, you know, every day my state of mind is want to sort of just overwhelm with all

01:19:52.240 the incoming, the missives, the messages, the letters, the threats from members of his cabinet,

01:20:00.040 agency directors, lawyers, constant back and forth as it relates to sort of this deconstructive

01:20:07.680 state mindset that Trump has and what 2025 represents.

01:20:12.100 It's, you know, from our perspective, it's difficult, you know, what do you chase?

01:20:17.460 Do you react to every little indiscretion or do you wait for the big things?

01:20:22.980 You know, is it a Carville notion?

01:20:25.500 Just stand back and watch him implode, watch what's happened in the markets.

01:20:29.880 This is a proof point of Carville strategy, one Carville may argue, I don't know.

01:20:34.040 I mean, what do you do?

01:20:35.100 Or do you flood the zone back?

01:20:36.700 Are you constantly in everybody's face and do what Charlie Kirk's doing every single day?

01:20:41.420 I mean, what's, where are you in the calibration?

01:20:43.660 I believe in the big story, Governor Newsom.

01:20:47.300 I believe in the narrative, okay?

01:20:50.020 If you study Lincoln, you study Jack Kennedy, you study the Roosevelt Revolution when he beat

01:20:56.020 Herbert Hoover, I believe in the narrative.

01:20:59.580 And so you're not going to beat him, being a pig like him.

01:21:03.580 If you call his hands little, like Marco Rubio, you end up as like one of his knaves, right?

01:21:08.620 So you're not going to, you're not, you know, it's like the farmer said about the pig.

01:21:11.420 You're not a pig.

01:21:12.540 The pig likes getting in the mud.

01:21:14.240 Don't get in the mud with the pig.

01:21:16.340 I don't believe in that.

01:21:17.860 You have a supra narrative, okay?

01:21:20.940 You can point out to people what they're trying to do to you, the bureaucratic terrorism that

01:21:27.240 they're trying to do to you with the federal government exerting power over you.

01:21:31.480 You can do that, but it's subtle, you got to do it subtly.

01:21:34.900 The big narrative has to be, who are we as Americans?

01:21:39.340 When you look in the mirror, do you see an America that's aggrieved and victimized, or

01:21:44.760 do you see an America in ascendancy?

01:21:46.880 We represent the Americans that are in ascendancy.

01:21:50.560 We are the side for good.

01:21:52.920 We are the benevolent people.

01:21:54.620 We're not locking the gate to the swimming pool to charge admission.

01:21:59.060 We're going to teach other people how to build their own swimming pools, okay?

01:22:02.860 And we've made some mistakes, you know, maybe you got to have less regulation so Bill can

01:22:08.560 get his roof done.

01:22:09.460 I'm not saying that the Democrats are perfect.

01:22:12.240 They've made some mistakes.

01:22:13.680 You're working on reform to correct those mistakes.

01:22:17.180 But the mistakes that you've made have been from inclusivity.

01:22:21.760 The mistakes that you've made, whether it's bail reform or things like that, have been mistakes

01:22:26.260 related to frailty of human beings and our humanity.

01:22:30.800 And so I wouldn't focus on Charlie Kirk's rat-a-tat-tat, flood the zone, or Steve Bannon's

01:22:36.320 stuff, because that's already old news.

01:22:38.240 The new, new news is what is the narrative?

01:22:42.080 What is the compelling democratic narrative which allows Americans to look in the mirror

01:22:47.700 and say, that's me?

01:22:49.140 I'm strong, I'm aspirational, I'm kind, I'm benevolent, and I'm going to work alongside

01:22:56.280 of my fellow Americans to put down the internecine warfare and the internecine tribal warfare.

01:23:02.200 These guys want the tribal warfare, but the average American does not.

01:23:07.300 And they're beating you on the tribal warfare and in the culture war, but you can flip the

01:23:12.480 table on them by going in the direction that I'm describing.

01:23:17.240 Great way to hand, Anthony.

01:23:18.600 Thank you for the conversation.

01:23:20.000 Thank you for your insight.

01:23:21.020 Thank you for-

01:23:21.480 Listen, it's a huge honor to be on with you, okay?

01:23:25.780 I mean, and by the way, you got the hair.

01:23:28.020 I mean, Newsom, that hair is an asset for you, okay?

01:23:30.400 You got to use the hair more, man.

01:23:33.100 Okay?

01:23:33.560 Use the hair more.

01:23:34.480 Yeah, I mean, it's-

01:23:35.460 You'll notice I never say a word about Trump's hair.

01:23:37.940 It's a state of California asset, you know?

01:23:39.960 Oh, Jesus.

01:23:40.760 Here we go.

01:23:41.440 Very cute.

01:23:42.040 What a way to hand, buddy.

01:23:43.460 Hey, pleasure.

01:23:44.600 Thanks for taking the time.

01:23:45.700 I really appreciate it.

01:23:46.420 By the way, thank you for being so good to stay.

01:23:48.580 The staff, that's your character, the way you treated everyone around me.

01:23:53.800 They said, this guy is a gentleman, so I just want folks to know that, and I appreciate that.

01:23:57.420 My grandmother was a maid, Governor Newsom, so trust me, it's very important to me that

01:24:01.820 I treat everybody with great kindness because, you know, and by the way, that is a non-starter

01:24:06.180 at Skybridge.

01:24:06.900 If people are mean to people that are beneath them, it's literally like an evacuation, you

01:24:11.560 know?

01:24:11.820 God bless.

01:24:12.600 But thank you for that, and not to be so, you know, if it's not an imposition, I would

01:24:18.520 love to do this again in person.

01:24:19.960 I think it'd be a lot more fun.

01:24:22.360 That would be a lot of fun.

01:24:23.460 Let's make that happen.

01:24:24.520 All right.

01:24:24.900 All the best to you.

01:24:26.160 Thank you.

01:24:26.520 See you.

01:24:27.020 In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.

01:24:39.940 7,000 bodies out there or more.

01:24:43.700 A forgotten asylum cemetery.

01:24:45.700 It was my family's mystery.

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01:24:50.860 Something keeps it all buried deep.

01:24:53.900 Until it's not.

01:24:54.700 I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay.

01:24:59.380 Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:25:05.040 What's up?

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01:25:47.540 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty.

01:25:49.360 This episode, Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation, and finding

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01:26:07.680 The Grammy goes to Lizzo!

01:26:10.000 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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01:26:18.420 The number one hit podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new.

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01:26:44.560 Listen to The Girlfriends Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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01:27:35.360 Let's keep going.

This is Gavin Newsom - April 04, 2025

And, This is How Trump’s Tariffs Cost YOU Money With Anthony Scaramucci

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