This is Gavin Newsom - And, This Is How We Were Really Raised with Gavin's Sister Hilary

00:00:00.000 You used your correction.

00:00:01.480 You used some called out by his sister live on TV.

00:00:04.840 I never doubted for one second that you always had my back.

00:00:08.720 They all think dad left us millions of dollars.

00:00:11.480 And if he did, where is my money?

00:00:14.000 Everyone erupted when they saw you just cheering.

00:00:18.120 And dad's eyes started to water.

00:00:20.420 I got emotional and he said, I get it.

00:00:23.340 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:26.120 Guaranteed human.

00:00:27.000 Ego Wodham is your host for the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards live at South by Southwest.

00:00:33.740 Hello, is anybody there?

00:00:35.000 Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues.

00:00:38.660 Are we supposed to talk about your dad?

00:00:40.180 Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors,

00:00:44.300 including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians, and more,

00:00:47.780 about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers.

00:00:51.380 I think and hope that's a good thing.

00:00:52.800 Get to know Ego.

00:00:53.620 Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Wodham and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

00:00:58.280 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast.

00:01:01.860 My latest episode is with Hilary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platinum artist.

00:01:06.780 You desire in family, like, this picture, and that's not reality.

00:01:12.720 My sister and I don't speak.

00:01:14.480 It's definitely a very painful part of my life.

00:01:18.280 And I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now.

00:01:22.040 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:29.020 You know Roald Dahl.

00:01:30.340 He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG.

00:01:32.980 But did you know he was a spy?

00:01:35.300 In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roald Dahl, I'll tell you that story and much, much more.

00:01:41.100 What?

00:01:41.960 You probably won't believe it either.

00:01:43.700 Was this before he wrote his stories?

00:01:45.420 It must have been.

00:01:46.040 Okay, I don't think that's true.

00:01:48.780 I'm telling you.

00:01:50.180 The guy was a spy.

00:01:51.700 Listen to The Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:59.000 Tonight, our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at South by Southwest.

00:02:04.220 This is the biggest night in podcasting.

00:02:06.320 We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry.

00:02:12.580 And the winner is...

00:02:14.580 Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display.

00:02:18.540 Thank you so much, iHeartRadio.

00:02:20.460 Thank you to all the other nominees.

00:02:21.980 You guys are awesome.

00:02:22.920 Watch live tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific, free at veeps.com or the veeps app.

00:02:28.420 I'm Clayton Eckerd.

00:02:31.260 In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

00:02:35.380 But here's the thing.

00:02:36.740 Bachelor fans hated him.

00:02:38.460 If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

00:02:41.000 That's when his life took a disturbing turn.

00:02:43.560 A one-night stand would end in a courtroom.

00:02:47.760 The media is here.

00:02:49.180 This case has gone viral.

00:02:50.700 The dating contract.

00:02:52.540 Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

00:02:55.100 This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

00:02:58.140 I'm Stephanie Young.

00:02:59.140 Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:03:06.820 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:03:09.640 This is Hillary Newsom. 0.94

00:03:11.300 Are you nervous?

00:03:16.340 Am I nervous?

00:03:17.480 Yeah.

00:03:17.820 Are you nervous talking to your sister about your book?

00:03:20.660 Well, what is it?

00:03:21.580 I'm here to fact check.

00:03:22.740 Is it you're here to fact check?

00:03:23.700 What do you think of the cover of the book, by the way?

00:03:25.820 You know, at first...

00:03:27.120 Tell the truth.

00:03:27.880 Okay.

00:03:28.780 I wish it was in color.

00:03:30.660 Wow.

00:03:31.420 Sorry.

00:03:31.880 What's wrong?

00:03:32.320 You don't like sepia tone?

00:03:33.620 I mean, I think I'd like sepia tone if I had a Leica camera and was doing some old-timey photos.

00:03:38.620 What about the picture?

00:03:39.460 What do you think of the picture?

00:03:40.080 I think the picture is good.

00:03:41.380 That's it.

00:03:41.800 What about the name?

00:03:42.380 They had to touch it up a lot.

00:03:44.520 Young man in a hurry.

00:03:45.740 What about that?

00:03:46.620 I think it's brilliant.

00:03:49.420 It's actually brilliant.

00:03:51.040 But it took me a minute to understand the title and to process it.

00:03:55.820 This interview is going really well so far.

00:03:57.820 I think we're done.

00:03:58.560 I think we're done, except for the color.

00:04:01.120 It's interesting.

00:04:01.720 We had four color options on the book.

00:04:04.540 Why didn't you show them to me?

00:04:05.280 But they looked, dare I say, slick?

00:04:08.980 Yeah.

00:04:09.260 I know.

00:04:09.780 It's a word that never is associated with me.

00:04:12.160 Right.

00:04:12.380 You've got to stay away from things that aren't familiar.

00:04:13.160 I wasn't sensitive to that.

00:04:15.020 And so they said, let's avoid the slick thing and went with the little sepia tone.

00:04:19.940 I wish you had shown me the options.

00:04:23.280 No.

00:04:24.000 No.

00:04:24.520 There was like-

00:04:24.900 Maybe we could do a recall of the book and then re-release it.

00:04:27.100 I had one with a puppy dog.

00:04:28.840 No, you didn't.

00:04:29.580 With a horse.

00:04:30.420 Oh, you did not.

00:04:30.980 Yeah, we did focus groups, the whole thing.

00:04:32.560 No.

00:04:32.580 You did not have a puppy dog.

00:04:33.600 Because that would be so insecure.

00:04:34.680 That I ran.

00:04:35.640 What do you mean?

00:04:35.920 Babies are fine, but puppy dog, please. 0.99

00:04:39.220 An otter, I would have bought more than a puppy dog.

00:04:41.140 By the way, what did you think?

00:04:42.760 Did you remember the otter?

00:04:44.420 In the book, I write about Potter the otter.

00:04:47.500 No.

00:04:47.680 My name-

00:04:48.880 But it was photographs that we remember it better, right?

00:04:52.100 No, but-

00:04:52.580 Because we have photos.

00:04:53.300 Potter was taken away before-

00:04:54.940 Oh, you weren't even around.

00:04:55.780 I was in the belly.

00:04:57.160 He nibbled on your toes way too soon and mom- 0.98

00:04:59.980 Because I have like actual baby photos with the thing, with the otter.

00:05:04.000 Yeah, it's a good point.

00:05:04.760 You didn't exist then.

00:05:05.780 No.

00:05:06.140 Interesting.

00:05:06.580 And you talk about me existing then.

00:05:08.200 I was just in their minds, in their hearts, but I wasn't in a human being, fully formed

00:05:12.460 human yet.

00:05:13.240 So I write about it because it's interesting.

00:05:14.680 I did 19, I've done literally 19 podcasts alone on the book.

00:05:20.180 I've listened to all of them.

00:05:21.860 You haven't even read the book.

00:05:23.280 We're going to get to that in a minute.

00:05:24.680 It lets us out.

00:05:25.240 I'm halfway through.

00:05:26.480 We're talking about the book and you have not read it.

00:05:28.480 Halfway through.

00:05:29.040 You're not even halfway through.

00:05:30.280 First of all, you're doing the audio version at 4X, which is cheap.

00:05:33.660 No, 1.2.

00:05:34.960 Whatever.

00:05:35.300 It's better with your dyslexia.

00:05:36.300 Hold on, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't.

00:05:37.340 No, it's very, it's actually nice and smooth.

00:05:39.840 Yeah, okay.

00:05:40.280 We're going to get to that.

00:05:41.080 But the otter story, I thought it was the most interesting.

00:05:43.260 No one cared about that.

00:05:44.240 I love the otter story.

00:05:44.800 No one's asked me about the otter.

00:05:46.960 You know what's strange?

00:05:48.240 On my TikTok feed, I don't have TikTok, but on my Instagram feed now, otters pop up.

00:05:52.660 Yeah, I've never searched otters.

00:05:54.700 What was the name of our otter?

00:05:55.820 Potter.

00:05:56.500 Well done.

00:05:57.320 And where did my name?

00:05:58.360 And dad had to literally teach him to swim.

00:06:00.680 Potter didn't know how to swim.

00:06:01.680 And no one believes that.

00:06:02.920 So now you have validated my story, unless we have both lied to and we're complicit in

00:06:07.060 this lie.

00:06:08.140 We have sepia photos to prove it.

00:06:09.420 We do have sepia photos of the otter.

00:06:11.880 Remember back in the day when you had like a cord and a telephone?

00:06:15.240 And the otter would literally jump on the phone to knock the cord off and then carry

00:06:21.120 the cord over to you in the corner and then just hold the cord and you spin it.

00:06:26.840 And then the cord would stretch out.

00:06:28.320 You'd spin it and then it would start to walk around all dizzy.

00:06:32.040 That was like the otter's thing.

00:06:33.560 Well, not having been alive, I can't validate that story.

00:06:36.700 You have to take that.

00:06:37.200 But there is spinning there.

00:06:38.400 You see this.

00:06:39.060 Dad said that he would leave his keys half dangling out because Potter would come, jump

00:06:44.840 up, grab the keys, hide them in the couch.

00:06:46.360 That was like his routine.

00:06:47.560 Maybe that's why the divorce happened.

00:06:49.100 His focus was on the otter when he got home from work and not on you and mom.

00:06:52.740 Well, we'll talk about the divorce and how you created that and how you started those

00:06:57.440 conditions.

00:06:58.340 You know, when I was around, things were going fine.

00:07:01.520 Just me and the otter.

00:07:02.600 But 14 months later, you ruined it all, Hillary.

00:07:05.200 Yeah, otter and I were just jamming.

00:07:07.280 Yeah, don't call him by his.

00:07:09.120 Yeah, and at one, I remember him so vividly.

00:07:12.740 Thank God, their photos.

00:07:14.060 It is amazing.

00:07:14.760 This is about you being a savant, right?

00:07:16.420 It is.

00:07:17.100 There is a little bit about that.

00:07:18.460 But one of the things about the otter, did you know that I was named after Gavin Maxwell

00:07:23.160 who wrote a book called Ring of Bright Water about river otters?

00:07:26.800 And that is why I included the whole Potter the Otter story in the book.

00:07:31.040 I know all about that.

00:07:32.520 I was very clear on that.

00:07:33.780 And your middle name is Christopher because Grandma Jean wanted you to be called Christopher

00:07:40.400 as your first name and was going to nickname you Toph.

00:07:44.220 Toph?

00:07:44.820 For what?

00:07:45.480 Like Toffee?

00:07:46.260 Or Topher?

00:07:47.160 Toff?

00:07:47.800 Topher?

00:07:48.280 Toff?

00:07:48.700 I don't know.

00:07:49.280 I'm just telling you what I was told when we were little.

00:07:52.300 This was not in the book.

00:07:53.740 Maybe Topher.

00:07:54.660 I thought it was Topher.

00:07:55.240 It's interesting.

00:07:55.620 Christopher, that was what they really wanted to call me?

00:07:58.240 Grandma Jean, Topher.

00:07:58.580 By the way, I was supposed to be William A. Newsom the 3rd or 10th or 60th?

00:08:04.320 15th, yeah.

00:08:04.960 Yeah, something crazy.

00:08:06.020 They were like, Bill Newsom, Bill Newsom, Bill Newsom, Bill Newsom, Gavin.

00:08:09.920 I know.

00:08:10.240 And you were really upset about it for a really long time.

00:08:12.580 And then I remember when you ran and won for mayor.

00:08:16.240 You remember that?

00:08:17.460 And the newspaper, the Chronicle, had in the biggest font you could have, right across the

00:08:22.960 front, just the word Gavin.

00:08:25.360 Oh, I like that.

00:08:26.320 That's my point.

00:08:27.200 Oh, that's cool.

00:08:27.900 Did you keep that?

00:08:28.680 That's a good little headline.

00:08:29.740 Of course.

00:08:30.300 I have it all.

00:08:31.200 I just haven't gotten around to clipping it and putting it in a book for you, but maybe

00:08:34.640 that's for your 60th.

00:08:35.980 But literally, I remember calling you and saying, aren't you glad your name is not William?

00:08:41.340 Because Bill would not have been like, Bill.

00:08:43.340 It was highly.

00:08:45.420 Zardew with the next utility file.

00:08:48.220 Yeah, no.

00:08:48.840 Yeah, so that's good.

00:08:49.740 It was you and you and I had a laugh.

00:08:51.120 So you're suggesting that that branding has helped build my, that was one of the successes.

00:08:56.140 It's it.

00:08:57.020 That's it.

00:08:57.400 I could have been called Potter.

00:08:59.060 No, no, they already had the Potter.

00:09:01.000 They already had Potter, the otter.

00:09:02.600 I think Potter predated you.

00:09:04.040 So when did you force our parents to get divorced?

00:09:06.740 When did you create the conditions where dad and mom started to fight and the stress was

00:09:13.040 so much he took off?

00:09:14.340 Why did you, when you came along, what were the particular attributes?

00:09:18.420 What do they want to talk about that?

00:09:20.600 I think you were-

00:09:21.420 Were you crying a lot?

00:09:22.200 I think you were so raving, jealous of me that you made their life so miserable that

00:09:28.820 they, dad said, I'm out.

00:09:30.460 I'm out.

00:09:31.360 No, but it is interesting how you came along.

00:09:34.400 I don't know.

00:09:34.860 I just, I really, that ain't really right about this either, but it's like something that

00:09:38.580 should be explored a little bit more.

00:09:40.160 I actually have a question for you.

00:09:41.420 What?

00:09:42.440 That we can get back to if you want.

00:09:44.220 No, we'll do it now.

00:09:45.200 Because I don't have the same memories here.

00:09:46.520 Okay, I got the editing capacity on this show.

00:09:48.600 What's, what are my royalties here?

00:09:50.520 I mentioned a few times. 0.97

00:09:51.000 By the way, you already, this is pathetic. 0.96

00:09:53.380 That's not pathetic. 0.97

00:09:54.140 That's our new water brand. 0.81

00:09:54.900 You came in marketing your own, like this is the price of you doing this interview.

00:09:58.760 This is, thank you, Gigi.

00:10:00.740 Wow, wow.

00:10:01.640 This is our new water.

00:10:02.040 So here we are.

00:10:02.640 Was this when you found out this was televised now that you, now you brought a product to

00:10:07.100 place?

00:10:07.380 I did.

00:10:07.740 You know how long it took me to paint the label?

00:10:10.560 Isn't that a large glass of vodka?

00:10:12.780 I mean, are you sure?

00:10:13.500 No, it's not.

00:10:14.200 Oh, I thought this was vodka.

00:10:15.020 Our water.

00:10:16.860 Oh, it's water.

00:10:17.820 Yes, Gigi Gas and his company.

00:10:19.040 We're bringing it to life in the fall.

00:10:20.800 Oh, so it's a new product.

00:10:22.140 You too can have some legacy mineral water.

00:10:24.680 American mineral water.

00:10:25.760 It's American mineral water.

00:10:26.740 Obviously.

00:10:27.260 All right, we'll get back to the water.

00:10:28.660 See how much things, how much you get back to things? 0.95

00:10:31.060 I didn't even, by the way, I'm not even promoting, I should be putting all my damn, 0.95

00:10:34.600 the only thing I'm promoting is Trump's knee pads on my Patriot site. 0.85

00:10:39.000 Available on our Patriot site.

00:10:40.620 I thought we would get that for, I'd get those for Christmas.

00:10:43.060 You didn't wrap those up.

00:10:43.660 No, well, those are the new signature series.

00:10:46.300 The old ones had sold out.

00:10:47.900 Just like all our law firms.

00:10:49.480 You know, I've got a whole thing.

00:10:50.580 It's law firms and universities sold out.

00:10:52.800 Is that your mint from when you were a kid?

00:10:54.360 Corporate leaders.

00:10:54.960 No, but that's, isn't that cool?

00:10:56.260 And by the way, come on, the greatest, number 24, Willie Mays.

00:11:00.040 And then look at those two people.

00:11:01.420 You know that.

00:11:01.820 We're going to talk about that photo in a minute, but I want to continue this conversation

00:11:05.400 in some semblance of order.

00:11:07.260 There's no order.

00:11:08.080 This is chaos.

00:11:08.720 I have to tell you a really great story about dad that you didn't put in the book.

00:11:12.960 And I was disappointed.

00:11:14.020 Wow.

00:11:14.740 Disappointed with the cover.

00:11:16.320 No.

00:11:17.220 Not the entire cover.

00:11:17.720 I'm disappointed you forced them to get divorced.

00:11:20.300 But again, you're not taking any responsibility.

00:11:22.540 Oh my God.

00:11:23.140 You're going to have to pay for my therapy bills.

00:11:24.660 You could pay for it with a product placement of legacy water available this fall.

00:11:30.180 American mineral water.

00:11:31.120 Yes.

00:11:32.040 So I was upset one night and I said to mom, I want to go to dad's house.

00:11:37.620 And he had a pied-a-terre in the city, remember, because he was up in dad's house.

00:11:40.240 Pied-a-terre, it sounds...

00:11:40.700 I know.

00:11:41.100 That one's a good accent, right?

00:11:42.220 Very, very fancy.

00:11:43.240 Do you know how to spell it?

00:11:43.640 You meaning he had an apartment in San Francisco.

00:11:45.860 Pied-a-terre.

00:11:46.660 Okay, pied-a-terre.

00:11:48.320 Who's the elite one in the family?

00:11:50.240 Why do I get that rap?

00:11:51.440 Yeah, so he had an apartment in the city and mom was sort of fed up with me and was 0.56

00:11:56.280 probably fed up with you, but she dropped us off at dad's apartment.

00:12:00.920 And he had a second or third bedroom and it wasn't furnished well and I was kind of

00:12:04.900 depressed.

00:12:05.160 Was this the Vallejo Street one?

00:12:06.440 No, it was actually...

00:12:07.220 Because there were no three bedrooms in that thing.

00:12:08.960 California Street.

00:12:10.240 You remember that?

00:12:11.100 Oh, I do remember that.

00:12:12.220 That was an actual more normal apartment.

00:12:14.000 Yeah, and that was...

00:12:14.760 He was supposed to live there more full-time, right?

00:12:16.980 Yeah.

00:12:17.220 Right.

00:12:17.580 And so he...

00:12:19.000 I woke up the next morning.

00:12:21.100 I think you were there too, but for whatever reason, you didn't need to have a lunch because

00:12:24.580 I guess you were at NDV then and they probably had a cafeteria.

00:12:27.440 I went to French-American bilingual school and they didn't.

00:12:30.000 And I said, dad, you got to buy me lunch.

00:12:31.180 So he took us to Safeway and he's like, what do you normally get for lunch?

00:12:34.720 And I said, you know, a bologna sandwich.

00:12:36.680 So he buys a loaf of Wonder Bread and a pack of bologna.

00:12:39.800 And I said, with mustard, he buys a jar.

00:12:42.100 And I was...

00:12:42.640 And then I started to see I could get what I needed.

00:12:45.540 I was like, oh, so we have chips and we have cookies and...

00:12:48.600 Ho-hos, ding-dongs. 1.00

00:12:49.940 No apple, please.

00:12:51.740 Ice cream.

00:12:52.420 Yeah.

00:12:52.840 So I am literally six or seven.

00:12:56.160 Let's say seven for the sake of arguments.

00:12:58.080 And I show up at school with a grocery bag.

00:13:00.720 And at lunch, I take out the grocery bag and I dump all the contents out on the table.

00:13:05.920 And the teacher came over and said, what is this?

00:13:08.020 And I said, my dad bought me lunch.

00:13:10.760 It didn't occur to him, but he had to assemble it.

00:13:12.800 It kind of sums up how we were raised by dad.

00:13:16.580 What do you say, boys and girls?

00:13:18.980 Here, here's a bologna side of bologna.

00:13:20.660 But mom was happy because when I got home, we had groceries for the week.

00:13:23.940 So we had that in Hawaii for us.

00:13:25.240 That's a good memory.

00:13:26.500 See, I don't remember those early days.

00:13:28.140 Because he was kind of...

00:13:29.320 I mean, so what we do write about in the book, what I do write about is the fact that

00:13:33.880 they did get...

00:13:34.780 They were separated when we were just a year or two after.

00:13:38.920 And then officially, whatever the legal thing was a couple of years later.

00:13:41.040 Yeah, none of us can even remember.

00:13:42.420 And so he was a distant figure in those early years.

00:13:46.800 Yep.

00:13:47.000 And so for you to even remember back to your little

00:13:50.540 tout pas la française nonsense, French-American bilingual school.

00:13:54.420 Again, they had a tear.

00:13:56.040 I mean, again, yeah, that's the newsome right over there that we all should be talking about.

00:14:00.940 But that's interesting.

00:14:02.260 You remember those things.

00:14:02.900 I don't remember any of that stuff.

00:14:04.000 Honestly, I don't remember any of those days.

00:14:06.220 And it's funny because you didn't remember when we did the nut tree drop off and that

00:14:10.380 you would literally grab onto his legs and cry.

00:14:12.860 And mom, I just saw the heartbreak in mom.

00:14:14.480 I do remember a little bit.

00:14:15.380 And he was probably thinking, I got to get back to the Pfeiffer house for dinner in Tahoe

00:14:19.080 City.

00:14:20.000 So this is when we got a little older.

00:14:21.260 I do write about that on I-80.

00:14:23.420 Anyone from California, you'll know that stretch.

00:14:25.820 And our dad is living in Lake Tahoe, which is three and a half, four and a half hours,

00:14:31.440 depending on traffic.

00:14:32.080 And so they would split in between San Francisco and there to sort of do the drop off with

00:14:36.960 the kids.

00:14:37.360 There was no joint custody.

00:14:38.480 Mom had us full time.

00:14:40.060 That wasn't even a dispute.

00:14:41.360 Dad was like, yeah, we're good.

00:14:43.140 You're good.

00:14:43.520 I know.

00:14:43.980 You know that he initially fought for full custody, which is hilarious.

00:14:47.780 But he did.

00:14:48.500 I think despite her, I think just...

00:14:50.480 And mom always told me she never...

00:14:52.040 Wow.

00:14:52.060 Can you imagine?

00:14:53.100 Think of all the bologna we would have.

00:14:55.440 I mean, honestly.

00:14:56.580 I think I'd be 400 pounds.

00:14:58.040 No, we would definitely be a beast.

00:15:00.160 I'd be in my 13th stint of rehab.

00:15:03.860 Yes.

00:15:05.120 Literally.

00:15:05.640 Yeah.

00:15:05.880 Living at Ramona's restaurant.

00:15:07.360 I know.

00:15:07.900 Oh, God.

00:15:08.540 No, it's interesting because she told me that the only reason she divorced him, because

00:15:13.440 she loved him, wasn't because he was never around, et cetera, but was because he had

00:15:19.160 financial problems after his two failed political campaigns, exactly, and she didn't want to

00:15:25.420 be tethered to that, and she was sort of given that advice, and that's why she told me she

00:15:29.360 divorced him.

00:15:31.080 Okay, but she never talked about it with me, and I talk about the fact she never talked

00:15:34.480 about the divorce, nor did he talk about the divorce, and the only way I learned about

00:15:37.620 it and wrote about it in the book is I got this Bancroft Library at UC Berkeley did

00:15:42.400 an interview with dad and his siblings, and there was, like, I didn't even, no one told

00:15:49.800 me about this.

00:15:50.900 In fact, Mark Ericks, who helped me write the book, said, oh, it was a great, I love listening

00:15:55.820 to your dad.

00:15:56.300 I said, listening where?

00:15:57.500 You didn't know about the book?

00:15:58.400 No.

00:15:58.940 No one told me.

00:15:59.480 Oh, you have the book.

00:16:00.200 Okay.

00:16:00.900 Thank you for sharing.

00:16:02.100 Well, you know what?

00:16:02.760 You never returned my phone calls.

00:16:04.280 You don't return my texts.

00:16:05.440 Well, that's great, brother and sister.

00:16:08.260 People?

00:16:08.500 Yeah, I didn't even care to tell your own brother about why our parents never got

00:16:12.380 divorced, but he said he was broke and broken after losing the race for county supervisor

00:16:16.660 and then state senate, and then just had to break down and just had to take off.

00:16:20.580 Yeah.

00:16:21.040 And, you know, it sounds like that was it, though.

00:16:23.500 Mom, I guess, agreed to it or didn't pursue him because she didn't want to be tethered with

00:16:27.920 no money.

00:16:28.620 She's 19, 20 years old.

00:16:31.080 She didn't want to be tethered to the debt because I guess dad was in debt, and she didn't

00:16:35.280 want to be-

00:16:35.380 That's a myth.

00:16:35.820 They all think that dad left us millions of dollars, and if he did, where's my money?

00:16:42.720 I did.

00:16:43.020 Where did you put it?

00:16:43.820 I dig every time.

00:16:44.860 I finally broke into his safe, and it was empty, and I can't-

00:16:48.180 Like actually, see, no one believes any of this.

00:16:50.560 I know.

00:16:51.300 Everyone just assumes, and we're going to get to why they assume in a minute, and mom,

00:16:55.660 the same thing.

00:16:56.340 I mean, she legitimately passed with, I think you got a lease in the car, and I got-

00:17:00.120 No, no, no.

00:17:00.980 Mom left us-

00:17:01.660 I got like $5,000 Merck stock that we were able to sell.

00:17:05.700 Which I always kept, $5,000.

00:17:07.420 Yeah.

00:17:07.680 But mom left us an apartment because she always believed in buying property, which was smart. 0.98

00:17:13.160 So she did leave us a nice apartment.

00:17:14.680 It was a few bucks, yeah.

00:17:15.700 Yeah, and then I took the car.

00:17:17.600 Sorry, I wanted to mention that.

00:17:18.280 You did take the car, so I do remember the car.

00:17:20.380 You didn't even notice.

00:17:21.160 It was an old-

00:17:22.100 Mercedes.

00:17:22.820 Ugh, yeah, it was an old one.

00:17:23.580 It wasn't old.

00:17:24.620 It wasn't that old.

00:17:25.620 I don't know.

00:17:26.020 It was one of those very old ones.

00:17:27.220 Okay, it was not a Gavin Newsom car, but it definitely was a Hillary Newsom car.

00:17:30.960 By the way, it fits for you, the Petitere, the French school, and a Mercedes.

00:17:36.040 Okay, we're really-

00:17:37.240 This book needs to be edited again.

00:17:39.500 I got to update it.

00:17:40.800 Yeah, I have a few things to talk about.

00:17:41.680 So they left, and so mom's-

00:17:43.720 Look, she was 19 when she was pregnant with me and whatever, and a couple kids on her own,

00:17:48.720 and she came from a huge abundance of wealth, right?

00:17:51.920 I mean, everybody-

00:17:53.000 She was, quote unquote, according to my friends at Fox, she was a socialite. 0.68

00:17:57.240 I forgot about that.

00:17:58.140 Yes, she was a socialite, a millionaire socialite. 0.99

00:18:01.320 I guess she-

00:18:01.900 Is that an accurate picture of her?

00:18:02.580 I think she must have been a socialite before she married dad, because I don't recall the

00:18:06.760 socialite, and I have a really good recall for our childhood.

00:18:09.340 Yeah, no, she was neither rich nor a socialite.

00:18:12.780 No, none of the above had a very odd sort of upbringing.

00:18:16.780 However, she didn't put any of that on us, which I'm super proud of.

00:18:21.280 Like, we barely heard- I mean, if it wasn't for Cindy, we wouldn't have known any story.

00:18:25.000 Well, then I write about that.

00:18:26.260 I just write about this sort of- this house of secrets and learning.

00:18:29.440 That's why I call it a memoir of discovery.

00:18:31.020 It's not just an inventory.

00:18:32.060 That I go back, and I'm like, oh, I didn't know this.

00:18:35.420 Even in our conversation, she would say, is that true, Hillary?

00:18:38.440 Did that really happen?

00:18:39.280 I'm like, it did.

00:18:40.120 It did.

00:18:40.920 I was there.

00:18:41.940 And honestly, it's interesting, because mom had a really intellectual family, an incredibly

00:18:49.200 brilliant family, but so much dysfunction and talented.

00:18:53.060 I mean, Grandma Jean is the actress.

00:18:53.920 Yeah, I didn't fully appreciate how objectively talented in terms of just all these sort of

00:18:58.540 Stanford professors, doctors, you know, Linus Pauling's doctor, friends with Oppenheimer.

00:19:04.340 I know.

00:19:04.660 All these stories that we bring to life.

00:19:07.100 And you're right, this deeply intellectual, which I didn't realize- I always assumed it

00:19:12.180 was dad's side.

00:19:13.280 I know.

00:19:13.540 Because, you know, he would-

00:19:14.580 They were incredibly-

00:19:15.640 Because mom didn't share any of that, so you wouldn't really know.

00:19:19.120 I mean, she read voraciously, but she wasn't quoting Yates.

00:19:23.040 No.

00:19:23.380 That's where dad was, like, you know, we are Seamus Heaney every hour.

00:19:26.160 Jeez, not another Seamus Heaney quote.

00:19:28.620 You know, no wonder I didn't read any poetry growing up.

00:19:30.800 But of course, I couldn't read, and that's what we're going to get to later, too.

00:19:33.200 I'm not a great reader, either.

00:19:33.940 That's why I'm working on the book.

00:19:35.440 It's not-

00:19:35.680 You haven't even-

00:19:36.760 You refuse to read it.

00:19:38.260 You're halfway through, and you're at 6x of my speed, of my voice.

00:19:44.840 Yeah, no, I'm planning on reading it.

00:19:47.140 I'm excited.

00:19:48.000 Well, I'm glad you prepared for this interview about the book.

00:19:51.320 All right, so I've read the book.

00:19:51.560 And what was accurate, what was inaccurate in the book.

00:19:54.220 I've read the book several times.

00:19:55.040 It's your opportunity to call me out.

00:19:56.380 This is the got you.

00:19:57.940 See, this is why I didn't want to do the beginning of the book tour.

00:20:00.560 I want to do it in the end.

00:20:02.040 So you can then just sort of scrutinize everything I said and say, that's BS.

00:20:06.700 That's not true.

00:20:07.560 And then tell me, besides your hating of the cover, what else you hated about the book.

00:20:11.920 There's no H word.

00:20:12.140 I don't use that word.

00:20:13.100 That feels really negative.

00:20:14.240 Oh, God.

00:20:14.840 I just mildly dislike it.

00:20:17.540 Okay, mildly dislike it.

00:20:19.260 Just like it appeared, our parents mildly disliked each other.

00:20:22.780 So they got divorced, and he went up there.

00:20:25.300 And so do you remember, besides the bologna sandwich story, do you remember any other,

00:20:30.000 you know, like dad in those first 10 years of our lives?

00:20:32.780 I know you outed me as a bedwetter in the book.

00:20:35.180 You got the age wrong. 0.82

00:20:37.240 I was not 13, okay?

00:20:39.040 Well, what did I say?

00:20:40.080 You said 13.

00:20:40.740 No, but what was it then?

00:20:41.940 Excuse me.

00:20:42.340 12 and 263 days.

00:20:44.840 Okay, wow.

00:20:45.360 It was right before my 13th birthday.

00:20:46.760 Oh, it was okay.

00:20:47.480 Forgive me.

00:20:48.240 Just a major correction.

00:20:50.100 Newsome called out by his sister live on TV.

00:20:54.500 I mean, in and of itself, that's embarrassing.

00:20:56.600 However, I did do the following, and this is not kind.

00:21:01.160 But I didn't know I wasn't being kind at the time.

00:21:02.860 But dad periodically had girlfriends, you remember, up in the country.

00:21:06.760 And I would go to dinner with them, and when we got home, I would, you know, at six, seven

00:21:13.120 years old, say, oh, I want to sleep with you to the lady. 0.99

00:21:16.180 Oh, Jesus.

00:21:16.880 To the lady, right? 0.62

00:21:17.680 Oh, God.

00:21:18.140 Some stranger?

00:21:19.040 Yeah. 0.98

00:21:19.540 Oh, just to torture him.

00:21:20.580 Yeah.

00:21:21.000 No, I'm like-

00:21:21.360 Oh, you would do that?

00:21:21.980 Yeah.

00:21:22.300 Yeah.

00:21:23.080 So dad would go into the other room, and I'd get to bed.

00:21:25.620 I would stop dating that dude.

00:21:26.920 And it wasn't like a nude date, like someone that I met three or four times, you know?

00:21:31.560 And I'd wet the bed.

00:21:33.400 Oh, God.

00:21:33.900 And I'm sorry.

00:21:34.720 That was not intentional.

00:21:35.600 You really wanted to share this?

00:21:37.040 Can we edit that?

00:21:38.020 No, it's too late.

00:21:38.940 I'm going to add that into the paperback version.

00:21:41.060 Oh, God.

00:21:41.600 I can edit that.

00:21:42.060 Wait, can you?

00:21:42.800 And I'll say you were 12 at the time, 13 when this started to occur.

00:21:47.080 No, but I remember that.

00:21:48.240 No, that was like when I was six or seven.

00:21:49.660 And I remember that the next day thinking, you know, that didn't go well for dad.

00:21:54.800 Oh, God.

00:21:56.360 Back to, no wonder they got divorced. 0.92

00:21:58.800 Yeah.

00:21:59.280 I mean, how could he handle that if you were doing that earlier?

00:22:01.860 It's not like I was intentional.

00:22:03.500 I just remember those moments.

00:22:05.160 I remember also a lot of time when we were with dad, there was never any normal, you're

00:22:11.380 visiting your dad.

00:22:12.260 It was, we were out at dinners.

00:22:14.260 It was dinners.

00:22:15.060 At Enrico's or Romano's or North Beach.

00:22:17.280 And it was at fundraisers.

00:22:18.340 Did you ever have dinner alone with your father?

00:22:21.460 Because someone asked me that.

00:22:22.560 Not as a kid.

00:22:22.820 And I don't, I don't even remember as an adult.

00:22:25.060 Oh, a million times a day.

00:22:25.980 You did.

00:22:26.620 Well, because.

00:22:27.200 I never did.

00:22:27.840 Really?

00:22:28.140 Like by himself.

00:22:29.700 Like the two of us.

00:22:31.780 Really?

00:22:32.220 I don't recall.

00:22:33.880 That was like an awkward thing for him.

00:22:35.600 That's interesting.

00:22:36.320 So he would have you.

00:22:37.200 You guys, I guess, would be able to do that.

00:22:38.740 And then I would be the plus one or something.

00:22:41.480 Yeah.

00:22:41.660 We did a lot, but really only in the very end.

00:22:44.560 Near the end.

00:22:45.000 When he was living with us.

00:22:46.480 Maybe.

00:22:47.200 Yeah.

00:22:47.560 And he would, I'd get home from work.

00:22:49.340 He'd say, where do we go to dinner?

00:22:50.460 Because he was always with a cadre of friends.

00:22:52.200 It was always this.

00:22:53.300 And I write a lot about that and all these guys and Malarkey and Malon and Groza and

00:22:58.760 what we, you know, these sort of.

00:22:59.980 I was with Malon and Gordon five days ago at Balboa.

00:23:05.720 I mean.

00:23:05.840 Yeah.

00:23:06.040 So it's like the same old haunts, the same.

00:23:07.880 All 90, 90 something.

00:23:09.160 Yeah.

00:23:09.180 Like the wash bag and getting a final final.

00:23:11.880 You mentioned Romano's restaurant.

00:23:12.980 You mentioned Rico's.

00:23:13.900 All these great North Beach restaurant, which is so much of part of the book and the lore

00:23:17.760 of old San Francisco.

00:23:19.440 But it was always around restaurants.

00:23:21.140 It was always around friends.

00:23:22.340 It was sort of, I'd say in the book, I said that, you know, drinking and storytelling go

00:23:28.200 hand in hand.

00:23:28.820 And then I sort of the old Irish construct.

00:23:31.480 And, and I think my memories of him are, you know, as I got a little older, was you're

00:23:35.480 right.

00:23:35.760 Always in relationship to restaurants, always relationship to dinner.

00:23:39.800 Philanthropy too.

00:23:40.580 And then to the extent, then those sort of summer months would come with friends of the

00:23:46.000 river, environmental defense.

00:23:48.260 And again, why we had an otter.

00:23:49.960 He was sort of an intense activist, an environmental activist, environmental justice person loved,

00:23:56.140 but he talked about environment, not just as CO2 and greenhouse gases.

00:24:00.080 It was mammals.

00:24:01.180 It was species.

00:24:01.860 It was mountain lions.

00:24:03.080 Mountain lions.

00:24:03.620 It was like, you know, so it was tangible.

00:24:05.220 It was about polar bears.

00:24:06.500 It was, you know, it was always connecting with something that for us was sort of visceral,

00:24:11.300 including just beautiful scenic rivers.

00:24:13.020 I mean, the friends of the river board meetings that he used to bring us to, or at least the

00:24:17.320 auctions he brought us to are memories I have.

00:24:20.500 Yeah, I know.

00:24:21.000 And I think it's interesting because I always thought dad never connected with domestic animals,

00:24:25.460 but they did have a dog, Beerbomb.

00:24:27.660 Yeah, he was not much into dogs or cats.

00:24:29.540 No.

00:24:29.780 Nor was I.

00:24:30.580 It was a very big...

00:24:31.080 You made me have cats growing up.

00:24:32.700 Pickwick, was that the name of the cat?

00:24:34.160 But Pickwick was a stray that we just picked up.

00:24:36.600 I don't know.

00:24:37.020 Pickwick just came in for meals.

00:24:38.020 That wasn't my jam, Pickwick.

00:24:39.120 Now, that's maybe why.

00:24:40.680 And then we had Snoopy the dog.

00:24:42.300 Snoopy.

00:24:42.800 Snoopy the last one.

00:24:43.220 Can't even make it up.

00:24:44.220 Snoopy.

00:24:44.440 But Snoopy didn't...

00:24:45.380 That was a heartbreaker.

00:24:46.260 A Cocker Spaniel or something?

00:24:47.560 Yes.

00:24:48.420 Springer Spaniel.

00:24:49.200 Springer Spaniel.

00:24:49.640 What happened?

00:24:51.560 So he ran out of the house.

00:24:53.340 Oh, Jesus.

00:24:54.120 I didn't write about that.

00:24:54.960 I wrote about Snoopy, but I didn't know what happened.

00:24:57.000 No, this is the real story.

00:24:57.860 It's a tragic story.

00:24:58.720 It's a tragic story.

00:24:59.480 Back to the paperback.

00:25:00.580 I'm going to have to amend.

00:25:01.180 So he ran out of the house.

00:25:02.060 I ran after him.

00:25:03.460 And I said, bad Snoopy.

00:25:08.020 And the mailman came up and said, you shouldn't hit your dog.

00:25:12.100 And I wasn't even hitting, you know, just like a light tap on his nose.

00:25:14.380 Abusing the dog.

00:25:14.940 And he put his hand in to pet Snoopy and Snoopy bit him.

00:25:18.780 Mom got a phone call that night, I remember.

00:25:20.980 And you know how mom answered the phone.

00:25:22.480 Hello.

00:25:22.900 She had the British accent when she answered the phone, which was so cute.

00:25:25.820 I have no idea where it came from.

00:25:27.100 I write a little bit about her.

00:25:28.240 We knew when dad was on the phone because she'd go, oh, okay.

00:25:32.240 Went from hello to...

00:25:33.540 But she got a phone call.

00:25:38.160 And the next thing you know, Snoopy was rehoused.

00:25:41.380 Rehoused?

00:25:41.900 Is that what you called it back then?

00:25:43.420 That's what mom said.

00:25:44.260 My mom's like, oh, there's a family that wants to adopt Snoopy.

00:25:47.900 I think those...

00:25:48.460 Were you devastated?

00:25:49.100 I don't remember being devastated by this.

00:25:50.900 I remember being devastated because...

00:25:52.360 I was a young man in a hurry.

00:25:53.780 See, I wasn't paying attention.

00:25:55.140 You were busy tearing up our backyard.

00:25:56.720 Yeah, I was a little busy.

00:25:57.240 Did I tell you that I saw the house the other day?

00:25:58.980 Yeah, the house that we lived in that I describe in the book as one of our...

00:26:03.020 When we moved to Marin in Corte Madera, this sort of smaller house.

00:26:06.560 Yeah.

00:26:07.160 The little gray house with a red door and a white picket fence.

00:26:08.840 Literally had a white picket fence.

00:26:10.220 Like actual real life picket fence.

00:26:12.400 It was like a dream.

00:26:13.860 And I slept in the hallway and that's all true. 0.97

00:26:15.640 Because it was a two bedroom.

00:26:17.900 It was a two.

00:26:18.340 You got one.

00:26:19.020 I got one.

00:26:19.760 Of course.

00:26:19.780 I slept in your hall.

00:26:20.980 Of course.

00:26:21.840 Yeah.

00:26:22.300 And mom got one, which was not always a course because we had a lot of homes where she rented 0.81

00:26:27.840 out, where she was living in the living room, which we're going to get to, a little bit

00:26:30.980 about how she made ends meet with a father who was broke and broken and didn't necessarily

00:26:36.320 raise us nor financially supported us or her to the degree that she would have liked

00:26:42.780 and maybe even deserved.

00:26:44.500 But she wasn't that way.

00:26:46.520 She didn't demand anything.

00:26:47.860 And when dad had any money to speak of, he was good to her.

00:26:53.140 Yeah, he would try to help pay off dad or something.

00:26:55.280 Yeah.

00:26:55.380 I remember when on our way home from Dutch Flat, we were driving home and it was Christmas

00:26:59.000 Eve or maybe it was the day before.

00:27:01.360 And I said to dad, did you get anything from mom for Christmas?

00:27:05.060 I was with Robin.

00:27:06.060 He goes, no.

00:27:06.880 What should I get her?

00:27:07.460 I go, she really wants a car.

00:27:08.640 And not kidding you, we pulled over at the Oldsmobile dealership.

00:27:11.620 Oh my God, 197 TVH.

00:27:13.780 That was the worst looking car.

00:27:16.480 Ugliest purple.

00:27:17.720 Purple.

00:27:18.380 Purple.

00:27:18.740 It was Bergen.

00:27:19.980 Oldsmobile.

00:27:20.980 Mom was devastated.

00:27:22.720 I was so excited.

00:27:23.600 I just played 197 TVH.

00:27:25.280 You don't know that.

00:27:26.160 How do you know that?

00:27:27.140 Because I have a weird memory.

00:27:28.080 That's a weird memory.

00:27:28.820 And that's part of my little dyslexia, right?

00:27:30.860 I have these weird things I can't forget.

00:27:33.700 197 TVH.

00:27:34.500 And I helped pick it out.

00:27:35.700 I was like, it just has to be big enough for carpool.

00:27:37.920 So dad picks this monstrosity.

00:27:39.480 Robin drives it back.

00:27:40.520 By the way, isn't it-

00:27:41.220 We go to Annie and Paul's.

00:27:42.900 We map the keys.

00:27:43.340 My aunt and uncle, Annie and Paul.

00:27:45.000 Robin's my cousin.

00:27:45.760 The best.

00:27:46.260 And by the way, do you remember the Renault?

00:27:48.440 Because you were so French at the time. 0.93

00:27:49.740 Oh God, yeah.

00:27:50.320 The light blue.

00:27:51.220 The light blue that could not get up the hill.

00:27:54.500 Literally, you had to go-

00:27:55.160 I think it was missing the engine.

00:27:56.560 You had to go to the far right lane to get up the hill, to get up so you could go down

00:28:02.380 the hill towards San Francisco.

00:28:04.260 It had brakes.

00:28:04.780 Going from Marin to San Francisco.

00:28:06.460 It's like four hours.

00:28:07.120 It literally was going 40 miles an hour.

00:28:10.080 Brand new.

00:28:11.000 Brand new car.

00:28:12.720 A Renault alliance.

00:28:13.580 Yeah, I don't remember that license plate.

00:28:15.080 In sky blue.

00:28:16.380 I mean, what cars?

00:28:17.220 Those were her cars, man.

00:28:18.660 Poor mom. 1.00

00:28:19.340 We were rolling in it back then.

00:28:20.500 That Mercedes, though.

00:28:21.760 That was the one.

00:28:22.480 Well, that's a problem.

00:28:23.420 Yeah.

00:28:23.680 That was khaki or whatever.

00:28:25.680 Well, that was the end of her life.

00:28:27.560 You guys must have-

00:28:28.520 Yeah, you had some windfall.

00:28:29.740 She was working for me, so I was making more money.

00:28:32.220 That's why she could afford that.

00:28:33.660 You were calling her Tessa.

00:28:34.040 It was so bizarre.

00:28:34.860 I didn't call her Tessa.

00:28:35.620 You called her Tessa in every meeting.

00:28:37.100 I called her mom in every meeting.

00:28:37.500 Well, because you can't be in a-

00:28:39.100 You can't have a business meeting.

00:28:40.640 Of course you can.

00:28:41.400 And then go, hey, mom.

00:28:42.840 I mean, that ruins the vibe.

00:28:44.180 You got to have some professional operation.

00:28:46.080 No, and you-

00:28:47.720 Mom, help us with the bookkeeping.

00:28:49.140 No, it's like, Tessa, why don't you give the report?

00:28:51.280 And I would say, mom, thank you.

00:28:53.240 It's respect to call her mother mom.

00:28:54.960 Well, that's a whole nother part.

00:28:55.680 You didn't call her mommy.

00:28:56.600 I was, again, young man in a hurry.

00:28:58.140 So I was, you know, I talk a lot about how effed up I was

00:29:03.520 and just focused on my own-

00:29:05.180 Oh, God, you know how much pressure that was on me.

00:29:07.780 I mean, really-

00:29:08.460 What did I have to do?

00:29:08.620 Why are you all complaining about yourself?

00:29:11.020 What was your issue?

00:29:13.020 Having to look for you when I got home from school in San Francisco,

00:29:16.700 literally on a fence saying, he's going to do it today.

00:29:19.960 He's going to hang my brother by his underwear from a fence.

00:29:22.600 See, I had someone say that you just made that up.

00:29:24.940 This is absolutely true.

00:29:26.080 I mean, literally.

00:29:27.300 So we're on Baltimore Street.

00:29:28.900 Yeah.

00:29:29.140 And there's the bully of Baltimore.

00:29:30.440 I told Trump this.

00:29:31.480 Trump called me.

00:29:32.480 Again, we have the new Trump Signature Series knee pads

00:29:35.620 that are available on our Patriot site.

00:29:39.120 And so Donald Trump calls me right before he federalized,

00:29:42.320 on a serious note, the National Guard, 4,000 National Guard,

00:29:45.020 he federalized, sent 700 active-duty Marines to Los Angeles.

00:29:48.280 The night before he announced that he was moving with the federalization,

00:29:52.240 he called me.

00:29:53.400 And the first thing he wanted to talk about was, 1.00

00:29:55.460 hey, what do you think of new scum? 0.98

00:29:57.600 It's a pretty original. 0.98

00:29:58.560 He goes, it's a pretty good nickname, right?

00:30:00.060 I'm like, what?

00:30:00.740 He goes, and he said this, it's pretty original.

00:30:02.580 I'm like, I just finished the book.

00:30:04.820 And I'm like, no, it's not original.

00:30:07.240 I wanted to say the book is coming out.

00:30:09.300 And I said, this kid in eighth grade, it may have been earlier, 0.99

00:30:12.280 this bully of Baltimore called me new scum. 1.00

00:30:14.340 So describe this. 1.00

00:30:15.220 It was sixth grade.

00:30:16.040 Six, okay.

00:30:16.700 Fifth and sixth is when you were bullied.

00:30:17.620 Oh, is it?

00:30:18.060 Okay, I gotta amend that maybe.

00:30:19.860 It was like fifth, sixth?

00:30:21.120 Fifth and sixth is when you were bullied.

00:30:22.300 Oh, that's seventh, okay.

00:30:23.080 Yeah.

00:30:23.740 No, I think by seventh.

00:30:24.800 You know that you used to pay me, this is a true story.

00:30:27.220 So we overlapped in school only for one year.

00:30:30.600 Ever.

00:30:31.280 You were an eighth grader at Neal Cummings and I was a seventh grader

00:30:33.840 because I moved from the French American back to Moran School.

00:30:37.740 With the rest of us to public school, just saying.

00:30:40.060 Yes, my two years.

00:30:40.880 Not your elite education.

00:30:43.120 Bien sûr.

00:30:43.800 So you gave me a dollar every time I came up to you

00:30:47.700 in the crowded, you know, schoolyard to get away from you.

00:30:53.360 I was wealthy.

00:30:57.180 It is amazing.

00:30:59.900 By the way.

00:31:00.520 It started to occur to me that if I just went up to you,

00:31:03.740 that I was like, whoa, I need to movie tickets.

00:31:05.200 In a dollar back then, I would like make it $1.75 an hour doing paper route and stuff.

00:31:09.760 Why did you not acknowledge that I did the paper route for four years?

00:31:11.580 It was you were doing paper route too.

00:31:12.960 Yeah, you start, you were like the OG of it and then I took it over.

00:31:16.100 And I'm younger than you.

00:31:17.420 I mean, do you remember the Thanksgiving papers?

00:31:18.600 Because again, I hold the divorce against you.

00:31:21.140 I just, I'm animus.

00:31:22.500 Like 16 inches thick, the Thanksgiving paper.

00:31:25.300 Thursday.

00:31:25.800 Well, Thursdays, Thursdays, because they were always the inserts.

00:31:28.420 Yeah, but Thanksgiving was brutal.

00:31:29.900 Always, and Thanksgiving, and you'd have to have four rubber bands.

00:31:31.740 And it was mom's birthday, we had to get to Annie's and Paul's house,

00:31:35.320 and we were frantic.

00:31:37.060 I mean, all hands on deck.

00:31:38.520 I think Catherine and I.

00:31:39.080 Do you remember how just black your hands were just going all those?

00:31:42.580 They were sitting there in a stack right when you got home from school

00:31:45.760 and you had to cut the top off and just wrap, wrap, get on that Schwinn bike.

00:31:50.180 I had a pretty sweet Schwinn, right?

00:31:51.640 It was like yellow Schwinn bike.

00:31:53.420 This also needs to be corrected in the book.

00:31:55.080 What?

00:31:55.720 You got the Schwinn bike for Christmas.

00:31:59.560 Yeah, you're.

00:32:00.280 Okay, you said you saved up money.

00:32:01.740 Pretty flat.

00:32:02.360 I didn't know.

00:32:02.680 You had no money.

00:32:03.440 Not in the book.

00:32:04.140 Okay, sorry.

00:32:04.660 Especially after you cost me a dollar every day to keep you away from me,

00:32:09.000 humiliate me.

00:32:09.720 Until you started to like all my friends in high school,

00:32:13.640 then you were like.

00:32:14.260 Well, it was good to have a younger sister.

00:32:16.320 Have so-and-so over.

00:32:18.320 I think you went to every one of my proms at Branson.

00:32:20.680 But anyway, with somebody.

00:32:23.360 But no, then.

00:32:24.700 I was not a dater.

00:32:25.760 People think that.

00:32:26.720 I was not.

00:32:27.240 You were not.

00:32:27.820 Oh, gosh. 0.99

00:32:27.920 No, it was like big time dork. 0.96

00:32:28.820 Do you remember that brutal? 0.99

00:32:30.060 But people, like no one believes this, like total dork. 0.99

00:32:33.640 And you used the word dork. 0.99

00:32:35.120 I was mortified.

00:32:35.460 It's in the book.

00:32:36.460 How embarrassed you were around me.

00:32:37.760 You had a briefcase.

00:32:38.900 You didn't have the hair gel down yet.

00:32:40.940 It was just like flat on your head.

00:32:42.460 I still don't have the hair gel down.

00:32:43.060 And it wasn't just Pierce Brosnan.

00:32:45.260 It was also Michael Douglas, Gordon Gekko.

00:32:48.360 And you didn't have the skin.

00:32:48.940 Well, that came later.

00:32:49.980 Gordon Gekko.

00:32:50.180 You didn't have the skin to wear, like that collarless.

00:32:52.560 I had no order of the looks of those two guys.

00:32:55.200 Come on.

00:32:55.820 The two of the best looking guys.

00:32:57.820 Mystery.

00:32:58.440 Jesus.

00:32:58.620 And literally, I was rough.

00:33:00.440 And I was dating.

00:33:01.100 Yeah, I was dating someone at your school.

00:33:02.200 And I was like, that's just embarrassing.

00:33:03.780 Who was a soccer star.

00:33:04.760 But you know what?

00:33:05.480 It was that or the Dutch boy, you know, Stridex, you know, for my pimples and the Dutch boy 1.00

00:33:10.520 thing.

00:33:11.000 And that was me in high school.

00:33:12.100 People don't, they think like, yeah.

00:33:14.240 You had no game in high school.

00:33:16.340 None.

00:33:16.780 You, so senior year.

00:33:17.620 Like legitimate night, except eventually in basketball and baseball.

00:33:20.980 Yeah, that was your moment.

00:33:22.300 Got me out.

00:33:22.780 Well, that's the reason you didn't get beat up every day.

00:33:24.800 But literally, you had like a couple of dates senior year, okay, with this girl.

00:33:31.660 Was it the basketball player?

00:33:33.800 Talk about Plutonic.

00:33:35.440 Sandy.

00:33:36.060 I can't remember her name.

00:33:37.020 Sandy.

00:33:37.800 Maybe that was.

00:33:38.600 There was not.

00:33:39.340 I didn't date any.

00:33:39.740 It was embarrassing.

00:33:40.860 So you, mom went through your room.

00:33:46.600 And I don't remember the context of it.

00:33:47.940 Oh, no.

00:33:48.480 Do we have to, what?

00:33:49.540 We have to tell the story.

00:33:50.560 What story?

00:33:51.200 I don't want moms going through rooms. 1.00

00:33:53.940 She opened your mail.

00:33:54.700 In high school.

00:33:55.620 That's not good.

00:33:56.940 And she said, uh-oh.

00:33:57.300 And it said, Gavin, thank you so much for the jade seal.

00:34:01.960 Oh, yeah.

00:34:02.840 Oh, Pam. 0.98

00:34:03.700 Her name's Pam. 0.98

00:34:04.980 And mom went running to the bookcase. 0.98

00:34:08.260 And the jade seal was gone.

00:34:10.340 Well, I wanted her to like me.

00:34:12.020 So I stole mom's jade seal.

00:34:13.660 Oh, person, you stole mom's jade seal.

00:34:14.780 Which was probably a gift from dad.

00:34:17.620 See, and you think I caused the divorce?

00:34:19.540 If Pam, if you're out there.

00:34:21.200 I think we have some jade seal.

00:34:23.500 We need closure of the family.

00:34:25.380 I'm sorry.

00:34:26.660 This is tough.

00:34:27.500 Yeah. 0.97

00:34:27.940 I was kind of pathetic. 0.97

00:34:29.340 There was a jade. 0.94

00:34:30.120 Do you remember it was a jade?

00:34:31.120 Now I remember it was a jade elephant.

00:34:33.120 There were two.

00:34:33.800 I've got the elephant.

00:34:34.900 And you have the elephant.

00:34:36.760 But you broke up the pair.

00:34:38.480 How does that feel?

00:34:39.720 You need to sit with that.

00:34:40.840 I have to sit with that?

00:34:43.020 That was the extent of my dating in high school.

00:34:45.800 It was.

00:34:46.440 God.

00:34:46.840 Canadian women are looking for more. 1.00

00:34:49.060 More out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world around them.

00:34:53.520 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.

00:34:57.160 I'm Jennifer Stewart.

00:34:58.420 And I'm Catherine Clark.

00:34:59.660 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women.

00:35:03.400 Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers.

00:35:06.960 All at different stages of their journey.

00:35:09.140 So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.

00:35:12.140 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

00:35:17.920 I'm Clayton Eckerd.

00:35:19.020 And in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

00:35:24.120 Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan.

00:35:26.840 He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected.

00:35:30.600 The internet turned on him.

00:35:32.040 If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

00:35:34.860 But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines.

00:35:38.820 It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal.

00:35:47.480 The media is here.

00:35:48.600 This case has gone viral.

00:35:50.020 The dating contract.

00:35:51.740 Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

00:35:54.480 Please search for it.

00:35:56.160 This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

00:35:59.380 I'm Stephanie Young.

00:36:00.880 This is Love Trapped.

00:36:02.020 This season, an epic battle of he said, she said.

00:36:06.660 And the search for accountability in a sea of lies. 1.00

00:36:10.300 I have done nothing except get pregnant by the f***ing bachelor. 0.99

00:36:14.800 Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0.97

00:36:20.040 I think and hope that's a good thing.

00:36:49.000 Get to know Ego.

00:36:50.020 Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Wodum and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

00:36:54.840 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose Podcast.

00:36:58.000 My latest episode is with Hilary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platinum artist.

00:37:02.980 Hilary opens up about complicated family dynamics, motherhood, and releasing her first record in over 10 years.

00:37:09.620 We talk about what it's taken to grow up in the entertainment industry and stay grounded through every chapter.

00:37:14.480 It's a raw and honest conversation about identity, evolution, and building a life that truly matters.

00:37:21.440 You desire in family like this picture, and that's not reality a lot of the times for people.

00:37:28.720 My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life, and I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now.

00:37:39.540 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:37:45.880 You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG.

00:37:51.400 But did you know he was also a spy?

00:37:53.600 Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

00:37:56.480 Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roald Dahl, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life.

00:38:04.300 His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

00:38:07.760 What?

00:38:07.960 And he was really good at it.

00:38:09.420 You probably won't believe it either.

00:38:10.960 Okay, I don't think that's true.

00:38:12.900 I'm telling you, the guy was a spy.

00:38:15.880 Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelts, played poker with Harry Truman, and had a long affair with a congresswoman?

00:38:22.060 And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock, before writing a hit James Bond film.

00:38:29.000 How did The Secret Agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever?

00:38:33.020 And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids?

00:38:37.640 The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote.

00:38:40.800 Listen to The Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:38:46.400 And then later you got your...

00:38:47.480 But I had that Schwinn yellow bike.

00:38:48.980 It was pretty fun.

00:38:49.600 No, okay, so remember about the bike.

00:38:50.440 With the banana seat.

00:38:50.760 So you got the banana seat, and then mom, not kidding you, mom painted it red and gave it to me for Christmas the next year.

00:38:59.620 You know, we had the Renault, we had your new red bike.

00:39:04.740 The Renault that you had to push up the hill.

00:39:06.340 We had three roommates.

00:39:08.060 We had...

00:39:08.720 Rob and Rachel and Rebecca.

00:39:10.480 Rob and Rachel and Rebecca.

00:39:11.480 And her mom.

00:39:11.760 Because we're just paying the rent.

00:39:12.820 Mom can't pay the rent. 1.00

00:39:13.880 People just...

00:39:14.460 Another thing.

00:39:15.300 Literally hustling.

00:39:16.260 We were renting out...

00:39:17.000 She rented out the garage.

00:39:18.580 She rented out her bedroom.

00:39:20.120 Yep.

00:39:20.520 And is living in this living room.

00:39:21.880 Because again, she has to pay the rent.

00:39:23.500 Yep.

00:39:24.280 For years and years and years.

00:39:25.420 We had a busy, busy house.

00:39:26.400 Yeah.

00:39:26.600 And I was working every day, you quit your job as paper girl. 0.99

00:39:31.480 Yeah, I know, but I worked at the movie theater.

00:39:33.260 Oh, Lark movie theater.

00:39:34.620 Yeah, you're welcome.

00:39:35.420 You got discounts on popcorn, which was pretty good.

00:39:38.160 Well, and I don't want to...

00:39:39.140 Because Lark is now spectacular.

00:39:40.300 They still have it.

00:39:41.180 It's a great place.

00:39:41.980 But it's...

00:39:42.480 Back in the day.

00:39:43.060 Now, they pop their own fresh popcorn.

00:39:44.840 But back in the day, I would find the popcorn up in the room, and the corner was nibbled,

00:39:50.080 probably by mice.

00:39:51.140 Just the rats?

00:39:51.440 And I would ask my manager if I should pour it in, and she's like, you know, their cigarette.

00:39:57.020 Yes.

00:39:57.860 I mean, and then you'd come to the movie.

00:39:59.800 I'm like, don't get popcorn today.

00:40:01.640 I don't advise it.

00:40:03.140 And I would ask them.

00:40:04.000 We always had jobs.

00:40:05.980 My mom was working, because she was working two, three jobs, literally all the time. 1.00

00:40:09.620 Part-time bookkeeper.

00:40:10.620 She'd work for Scott McCall Realty.

00:40:13.520 She did a Ramona's restaurant.

00:40:15.280 I started doing busboy at Ramona's restaurant.

00:40:16.860 Well, that's because I got fired.

00:40:18.620 I was going to ask.

00:40:19.380 Did you never work?

00:40:20.120 You did.

00:40:20.440 I worked at Ramona's one night.

00:40:21.940 So you were responsible for the divorce of the family.

00:40:24.000 You're responsible for my bullying, and you're responsible for my paper route.

00:40:28.020 I think we're done with this interview.

00:40:28.800 Which actually was pretty fly.

00:40:30.640 And you got fired.

00:40:32.240 So you were that.

00:40:33.180 I got fired.

00:40:35.220 I got fired for negligence, maybe.

00:40:38.580 I spilled coffee.

00:40:40.240 You know the old coffee pots, the glass ones?

00:40:43.080 She was a tough boss. 0.98

00:40:44.280 Oh, she was.

00:40:45.000 It was a woman, right?

00:40:45.900 Yeah, Ramona. 0.52

00:40:46.280 But just came back.

00:40:47.200 Ramona.

00:40:47.700 No, she was brutal. 1.00

00:40:49.120 See, I don't know.

00:40:49.920 I remember working my tail off, because you had to there.

00:40:54.120 Yeah.

00:40:54.780 Oh, no.

00:40:55.100 She fired me on the spot that night.

00:40:57.240 And the worst part is, I had to wait for mom to get off her ship to go home, even though

00:41:02.220 I was fired. 0.99

00:41:02.780 The best part of her going home, she'd bring back all those damn burritos. 1.00

00:41:05.380 That was why she did it. 0.99

00:41:06.360 She did it for the extra $150 a week, or whatever it was, that she made.

00:41:10.460 And the food.

00:41:10.480 It was Friday and Saturday nights.

00:41:11.840 And get a bunch of food.

00:41:12.680 Her day off was Sunday, literally.

00:41:14.640 And she sat in that backyard, and she read on her lounge chair.

00:41:17.980 She read.

00:41:18.200 And loved that we were noisy all around her.

00:41:20.380 And just running around.

00:41:20.660 And we were all around her.

00:41:21.780 On ping pong table, you were on your basketball court.

00:41:23.860 Yeah.

00:41:24.480 Interesting.

00:41:25.040 So it was just one day off a week.

00:41:26.720 One day off a week.

00:41:27.320 That's true, isn't it?

00:41:28.180 And worked Wednesday nights as the secretary, and then Friday and Saturday nights as the

00:41:31.840 waitress.

00:41:33.520 Yeah.

00:41:33.960 And we, it's interesting memory.

00:41:36.400 And you, so people, you know, I think we had a debate, because I was saying how much consumption

00:41:41.980 of macaroni and cheese I had.

00:41:43.200 And you said, that's not true.

00:41:44.520 You lived on, you know, TV dinners.

00:41:48.340 Yeah.

00:41:48.720 So we had Hungry Man pot pie.

00:41:51.180 Hungry the pot pie, man.

00:41:52.380 Lived on that.

00:41:53.000 Hungry Man.

00:41:53.620 I mean, lived on that.

00:41:54.640 And we got the jumbos.

00:41:55.240 I forgot about that.

00:41:56.080 And then the lasagna, Stouffer's lasagna.

00:41:57.580 Yeah, of course.

00:41:58.240 But then also, another big hit for us was Wheaties and Grape Nuts mixed.

00:42:03.380 No, no, no.

00:42:03.820 Yeah, that was right after school.

00:42:05.280 That's such BS.

00:42:06.520 It was sugar.

00:42:08.200 Then you add the Grape Nuts.

00:42:10.860 And then you just sprinkle the Wheaties on top.

00:42:13.260 I apologize.

00:42:13.840 I got the order right.

00:42:14.420 And then you stir it up.

00:42:15.500 And it was like super thick.

00:42:15.880 And then you just drink the milk, which was just sweet.

00:42:19.000 Oh, come on. 0.87

00:42:19.820 So see, that I remember.

00:42:21.460 I don't think that we, I think we were only microwaves and fridge.

00:42:26.280 I don't remember a mac and cheese.

00:42:27.760 I lived on mac and cheese.

00:42:28.840 What is your problem?

00:42:29.900 It was, I moved up to the cans.

00:42:31.820 Okay, who do you trust?

00:42:32.300 Where you had the pre?

00:42:33.220 Whose memory do you trust?

00:42:34.320 No, because I didn't like the one you have to mix with the butter until they came out

00:42:37.220 with the ones in the, they had the aluminum can with it and you just squeeze it out.

00:42:41.640 No.

00:42:41.980 But you had to open it up.

00:42:43.380 And then I, man, right after school, get that, get my, you know.

00:42:47.240 I was probably studying then.

00:42:48.660 That's probably why I didn't have the mac.

00:42:49.920 Oh my God.

00:42:50.600 I was the Wonder Bread, which is the greatest.

00:42:53.560 You told someone.

00:42:54.200 Wonder Bread may be one of the world's, you look back in life and there may be few things

00:42:59.000 that were more meaningful than angel food cake and Wonder Bread.

00:43:02.280 I mean, angel food cake is the only cake to be had.

00:43:05.620 Although remember at dad's 50th birthday, we did a surprise.

00:43:07.720 No one likes angel food cake.

00:43:08.800 And they don't think that, they think that's elitist too.

00:43:11.080 It's like your French school and your Renault.

00:43:13.320 They don't think it's, it's like a, you really want to be relatable.

00:43:16.680 Talk about your otter.

00:43:17.960 Yes.

00:43:18.900 Yes.

00:43:19.460 Do you remember dad's surprise 50th birthday, which at the time I felt like he was old,

00:43:23.660 right?

00:43:23.800 But he wasn't.

00:43:24.600 That was embarrassing.

00:43:25.400 Like actually embarrassing how old he was.

00:43:27.440 I know.

00:43:27.740 And Ann said to me, what's your dad's favorite cake?

00:43:31.060 And I said, frosting.

00:43:32.020 And she made him a sheet cake.

00:43:33.880 With frosting.

00:43:34.400 It was this high.

00:43:34.900 His favorite cake was frosting.

00:43:36.760 And he cut into it and was so happy.

00:43:39.320 It was, it was a surprise party at Gordon's and we had the heck of a time getting him in

00:43:43.600 there.

00:43:44.280 And someone made a book.

00:43:45.500 Harold Berliner.

00:43:46.620 Called The Wit and Wisdom of William A. Newsom and handed out to everyone.

00:43:50.780 Yep.

00:43:51.140 And in the book was all these empty pages.

00:43:53.200 It was blank.

00:43:53.680 It was The Wit and Wisdom of our 50-year-old old man father.

00:43:58.740 Embarrassing.

00:43:59.620 Embarrassing.

00:44:00.340 I know.

00:44:00.840 And by the way, everyone signed into that.

00:44:03.000 I still have it.

00:44:03.660 You do?

00:44:04.560 Everyone left, signed one of the books and everyone wrote a great note.

00:44:08.100 You know, I have to reread that.

00:44:09.420 I should have read it for the book.

00:44:10.980 You should have read it for the book.

00:44:11.560 That would have been interesting.

00:44:12.420 By the way, I've never seen dads.

00:44:13.920 I never did.

00:44:14.740 A diary.

00:44:15.560 You've never seen dads.

00:44:16.080 It ends this, this, this very poignantly with Brooklyn.

00:44:20.800 And it's one, it's my favorite passage in the book.

00:44:22.780 It's the last paragraph.

00:44:23.680 I love the last paragraph.

00:44:24.620 Isn't it?

00:44:25.180 I cried in the last paragraph.

00:44:26.420 Yeah.

00:44:26.840 You need to read it out.

00:44:27.740 No, I won't.

00:44:28.300 It's the part about me.

00:44:28.920 You know how much I love reading out loud.

00:44:30.880 Did you, do you remember when I, yeah, this is Brooklyn.

00:44:33.960 Oh, I love this last paragraph.

00:44:35.260 Yeah, it's beautiful.

00:44:35.880 And it's opening his diary and then.

00:44:37.920 I have read that.

00:44:39.460 I read the last paragraph.

00:44:40.460 Do you remember me reading?

00:44:41.840 Because I crushed it when I was young.

00:44:43.480 You had, you struggled with pretty severe dyslexia.

00:44:46.460 I, however, was just, I just crushed it academically.

00:44:50.220 Yeah.

00:44:50.500 Do you remember?

00:44:51.200 I remember you.

00:44:51.780 This is upsetting to me to share that.

00:44:53.380 So you, you misrepresented my SAT scores.

00:44:56.960 You told someone that I got like 1300.

00:44:59.120 I got 20 points more than you.

00:45:01.180 I got like 980.

00:45:02.480 Okay.

00:45:03.260 Let's just make that clear.

00:45:04.340 I am actually literally embarrassed for you.

00:45:06.800 No, but like not even figuratively.

00:45:08.620 Like actually.

00:45:09.220 I graduated from Georgetown.

00:45:10.580 I had a higher, I had a higher, I seriously literally thought of you much.

00:45:15.220 I went to French school.

00:45:16.000 Enough said right there.

00:45:17.080 That should have given you like an extra 20 points in the SAT.

00:45:19.480 The SAT was not in French.

00:45:21.240 It was in English.

00:45:22.280 Your ability to conjugate verbs.

00:45:24.560 It was just too late or something.

00:45:26.500 Pied-à-terre.

00:45:27.320 Pied-à-terre.

00:45:28.440 So relatable.

00:45:29.680 Yeah.

00:45:30.100 Because no, because in French school, everything is oral.

00:45:32.280 Like they, they read to you, you hear it.

00:45:34.060 And you answer. 1.00

00:45:34.760 Why are you so pathetic? 1.00

00:45:35.000 You got, you got, you got. 1.00

00:45:36.100 980.

00:45:36.760 You did better than me, but that's embarrassing.

00:45:38.900 So don't judge yourselves.

00:45:39.880 How'd you get in, how'd you get in Georgetown then?

00:45:41.840 How'd you get in a fancy school?

00:45:43.100 Because I spoke in French to the, the dean.

00:45:46.080 See, back to the, yeah.

00:45:47.200 So you did all that stuff and you had better grades.

00:45:49.460 You had pretty good grades.

00:45:50.320 You, but you didn't.

00:45:51.180 Your grades weren't as bad as you say.

00:45:52.900 I have all your old grades.

00:45:54.120 I have some, I, you sent me those that shocked me.

00:45:58.600 I know. 0.99

00:45:59.480 That I was really, I'm like, damn. 0.98

00:46:02.100 It wasn't just an A in woodshop. 0.98

00:46:03.720 And by the way, I still have the garbage can.

00:46:07.040 No, that you made a woodshop.

00:46:07.600 Oh my God, that was good.

00:46:08.680 Seriously have it at my house.

00:46:09.900 That was good.

00:46:10.460 That you made an eighth grade.

00:46:12.040 That was pretty good.

00:46:13.380 It's still around.

00:46:14.620 I didn't appreciate me as much as now.

00:46:17.420 By the law of comparison.

00:46:19.020 I'm so glad that I could help you with your, you know, your ego.

00:46:22.620 Because you're so fragile.

00:46:23.900 But I was, you know I was.

00:46:26.140 You know, I was a little, you know, I was, I was very insecure and, and, you know, sweaty

00:46:30.960 hands and, you know, the back, you know, I was not.

00:46:33.760 It was the haircut.

00:46:34.960 If you'd had a cooler haircut, you might have.

00:46:37.140 The haircut has been a bane of my existence.

00:46:39.500 It's the whole slick thing.

00:46:40.580 Do you, do you, I mean.

00:46:41.380 When people talk about it, they, they say slick, right?

00:46:43.800 They're like, guy's slick.

00:46:45.100 I don't trust that guy.

00:46:45.880 I don't think, no, I think.

00:46:47.400 You get that.

00:46:47.720 Well, maybe.

00:46:48.080 I don't know.

00:46:48.640 Looks slick.

00:46:49.220 Everybody so, everybody just says nice things to me about you.

00:46:52.640 Oh God.

00:46:53.240 I know.

00:46:53.700 But by the way, I took Jeff to our old house the other day.

00:46:55.720 I mentioned.

00:46:56.140 And we went up the hill and I told him the story about how you took mom's four chairs.

00:47:01.720 There was a yellow, a red, a blue, and a green, and you taped them all together and you rode

00:47:07.580 the, the chairs down the hill, but you neglected to realize that the wheels were plastic.

00:47:13.840 So you shattered the wheels.

00:47:15.760 Oh, I remember this.

00:47:16.140 Oh, I remember this.

00:47:16.680 You were toppled over.

00:47:17.480 Yeah.

00:47:17.740 You were all cut up.

00:47:18.880 Nice.

00:47:19.240 And mom got home and burst into tears because her chairs were rolling. 0.97

00:47:23.720 Yeah.

00:47:24.080 Not her son's face.

00:47:26.060 No.

00:47:26.460 Yeah.

00:47:26.640 She was less concerned.

00:47:28.080 Clearly.

00:47:28.900 Jesus.

00:47:29.860 That's the way we were raised.

00:47:30.740 Do you remember when you jumped out of the car when it was rolling?

00:47:32.620 I don't want to talk about that.

00:47:33.700 I didn't put that in the book.

00:47:34.900 I know.

00:47:35.300 There were plenty of bad judgments that I did include in the book.

00:47:39.220 You were really small.

00:47:39.680 I didn't need to include that.

00:47:40.580 But I just remember we got home and mom had bought licorice, which you love.

00:47:44.360 Was that in the VW Bug that I jumped out of the car?

00:47:49.620 Yeah, I think it was.

00:47:50.400 It was a VW.

00:47:50.900 She had like a, like a 60s.

00:47:52.240 No, that was dad's car.

00:47:53.740 Oh, that's right.

00:47:54.180 He had a VW Bug.

00:47:55.080 He taught me how to drive on that car.

00:47:56.400 So we got, we got the Renault, the, what was it again?

00:48:00.280 Renault Alliance.

00:48:01.500 Oh, no.

00:48:01.880 Oh, the Oldsmobile Omega.

00:48:04.160 Oh my gosh.

00:48:04.680 That was stuff stuff.

00:48:05.880 That was.

00:48:06.380 That's the purple.

00:48:06.820 Come on.

00:48:07.040 It was, it was.

00:48:08.440 What was it?

00:48:08.800 Neither of those brands are even around anymore.

00:48:10.640 Are they not?

00:48:11.240 For good reason.

00:48:12.300 I hope not.

00:48:13.060 Jesus.

00:48:13.740 I mean, no offense to Americans.

00:48:14.960 VW is.

00:48:15.540 I mean.

00:48:15.880 VW is.

00:48:16.620 But Oldsmobile and Renault are not around.

00:48:18.660 There's, I think, better Oldsmobiles.

00:48:20.280 Yeah, no.

00:48:20.700 And there's better Renault.

00:48:21.300 That one was not, that one and all that.

00:48:22.880 You're lying.

00:48:23.220 That was not that.

00:48:23.980 That was when the Japanese were kicking our tail back in the day. 1.00

00:48:27.540 Yeah.

00:48:27.680 Yeah.

00:48:27.760 I think we were kicked into gear.

00:48:29.500 We woke up as American automobile manufacturers.

00:48:32.320 But what I got kind of kicked into gear, too.

00:48:34.060 Remember I used to take those classes every couple days after school?

00:48:37.540 And it was going to summer things as well.

00:48:40.740 Just all that extra.

00:48:41.640 But you didn't pay, did you pay attention to that?

00:48:43.360 No.

00:48:43.940 Yeah.

00:48:44.500 I was super busy.

00:48:47.100 You were just too busy.

00:48:48.460 I wasn't being bullied.

00:48:49.400 I was popular.

00:48:50.320 You were popular.

00:48:50.860 You were kind of popular.

00:48:51.860 I wasn't popular.

00:48:52.540 I was, I was, I was friends with everybody.

00:48:55.220 I was friends with everybody.

00:48:55.960 But you did better in school.

00:48:57.300 You had, it was easier for you.

00:48:58.640 It was definitely easier.

00:48:59.660 By the way, dad, back to money.

00:49:01.240 You just reminded me when he had money.

00:49:03.180 So remember I was paying off the script for my student loans?

00:49:05.680 And they're like literally a physical thing.

00:49:07.700 And you pay, I remember, I mean, literally still have all this stuff.

00:49:11.560 And you pay off, pay off, pay off.

00:49:13.160 And like my, it was a birthday gift.

00:49:15.800 And he paid off like the last $1,800.

00:49:17.460 I remember that.

00:49:18.040 Like one of the great moments of your life.

00:49:19.940 Yeah, that's what he did for me, too.

00:49:20.400 Like he finally paid off.

00:49:21.700 Because you're paying $100 or $125 every month.

00:49:24.520 It's this day.

00:49:25.260 And then they send you a new one.

00:49:26.500 The vouchers.

00:49:27.360 Yeah, it was vouchers.

00:49:28.580 Literally.

00:49:29.080 It wasn't automatic then.

00:49:30.400 And you just would see this thick thing.

00:49:32.080 You're like, oh, God.

00:49:32.840 I'm never going to end this.

00:49:34.580 So yeah, it's interesting.

00:49:35.960 He reminded me, dad, when he had a few bucks, he would sort of do that.

00:49:39.380 He would sort of.

00:49:40.320 And at Georgetown, they required me to work on campus if I was on financial aid.

00:49:45.560 So I worked in the library, got all my stuff done, and then went out later.

00:49:48.120 But at Branson, mom told me that I went to, she picked Branson for me because she wanted

00:49:53.080 someone to watch over me, that she knew I was too social.

00:49:55.940 And in a classroom of 10, they'd notice if you're missing.

00:50:01.120 In a classroom of 40 at Redwood, they wouldn't really notice.

00:50:03.760 And so she felt like I was too social.

00:50:06.220 In fact, I have a letter from her that says, I love you so much.

00:50:09.440 And I love that you have so many friends.

00:50:11.060 And I love that you talk to them every night, but maybe apply yourself a little more to school.

00:50:14.280 So to your point, I wasn't.

00:50:17.220 I mean, it came easier for me, but I didn't apply myself.

00:50:19.300 I always saw you as like the easy, smart one.

00:50:22.080 But you were the, I mean, definitely.

00:50:23.460 Yeah, let's leave that.

00:50:25.060 Let's leave that.

00:50:25.860 No, I mean, this is interesting.

00:50:28.040 Writing a book comes in, you know, this memoir of discovery is sort of what's in the book,

00:50:32.720 what's out of the book.

00:50:33.420 And you're still discovering.

00:50:34.320 So what do you, since you didn't read the book and you're going to act like you did,

00:50:38.040 what's your favorite chapter?

00:50:40.200 Let's see.

00:50:40.820 Oh, chapter.

00:50:41.560 What do you think of chapter six?

00:50:42.240 Chapter 14.

00:50:43.140 I liked 14.

00:50:43.720 Yeah, well, it only goes to chapter what here?

00:50:45.980 11.

00:50:47.380 And an epilogue.

00:50:48.180 How many?

00:50:48.720 Well, yeah, it's 11 and an epilogue.

00:50:50.220 Well done.

00:50:51.060 I told you, I read the book.

00:50:52.060 Chapter 11.

00:50:53.020 I read the book.

00:50:53.520 I read the book.

00:50:54.420 You know, I read the book.

00:50:55.720 It's pretty well written, don't you agree?

00:50:57.000 It's beautifully written.

00:50:57.540 Like, no BS.

00:50:58.380 Like, I'm really, I like how I begin.

00:51:00.300 I'm sitting in an office, looking at where you were.

00:51:04.000 I like the way it's written.

00:51:05.880 I mean, you know, it's not a politician book is what I'm saying.

00:51:08.500 It's beautifully written.

00:51:09.420 And there's moments of real pain.

00:51:12.180 Yeah.

00:51:12.280 There's moments of real heartbreak.

00:51:14.640 There's moments where I wanted to fast forward it.

00:51:17.340 Yeah, you were freaked out when I gave you the final.

00:51:20.480 I read it in fear.

00:51:21.120 You were not happy about the stuff I put in this.

00:51:23.500 No, but I.

00:51:24.260 You were really upset about it, in fact.

00:51:26.260 There were moments.

00:51:27.480 But in the end, I appreciated how you wove it all together and how it's, with the exception

00:51:33.900 of a couple little things, it's our life.

00:51:39.240 It's our truth.

00:51:39.800 And it's important, as you said, I also had a different perspective on things.

00:51:45.380 I remember after mom died, I was really angry with you.

00:51:49.360 We didn't speak for several months.

00:51:50.620 I don't know if you remember that.

00:51:51.960 Sometimes you're a little bit self-centered, so you probably didn't even notice that.

00:51:55.740 Young man in a hurry that put a mask on.

00:51:58.300 Yeah.

00:51:58.540 Kind of wrote a lot about that.

00:51:59.900 But wait a second.

00:52:00.940 We, so just on that.

00:52:03.140 So it was almost 20 years ago, right?

00:52:05.540 Over.

00:52:06.320 Oh, it's been over 20.

00:52:07.140 I keep saying it's 20.

00:52:07.980 Yeah, because it's the 25th annual government.

00:52:08.700 I kind of like, you know, it's one of those.

00:52:09.980 She was at the first, yeah, so it's 21 years.

00:52:11.740 21 years now.

00:52:12.700 Yeah.

00:52:12.840 So mom passed away.

00:52:13.960 She had an assisted suicide.

00:52:15.140 We write about it in the book, or I write about it, and write it.

00:52:17.680 But you and I were in the room with her after the doctor.

00:52:20.720 With the doctor, and he, and she.

00:52:22.740 Who had a time when it was illegal.

00:52:24.140 Illegal.

00:52:24.740 And had the courage to do this and potentially lose his license.

00:52:28.260 Yeah.

00:52:28.660 Mom had breast cancer.

00:52:30.920 And it had come back.

00:52:31.520 And it had the size in the liver. 0.60

00:52:32.460 And I, the first time she got it, she was fine.

00:52:35.300 And so I frankly took that for granted.

00:52:36.820 And then I'm also running around, doing my thing.

00:52:40.240 I got my sister taking care of mom. 0.99

00:52:42.200 So I'm like, everybody's good.

00:52:44.020 And I'm doing my thing.

00:52:45.340 And then all of a sudden, I get that phone call from her.

00:52:47.800 Yep.

00:52:48.140 Hello, honey.

00:52:49.260 I was there.

00:52:49.960 I didn't leave her house for four or five days.

00:52:54.820 And I was there when she made the phone call, too, which I didn't disagree.

00:52:58.480 You heard her make the call?

00:53:00.160 Yes.

00:53:00.740 You never told me that?

00:53:01.560 I know.

00:53:02.000 Well, because I wasn't speaking to you.

00:53:03.420 Remember that part?

00:53:04.180 And the phone call was, hello, honey.

00:53:08.360 It's your mom.

00:53:10.580 Hope you're well.

00:53:12.360 You should check in before next Thursday, maybe in Friday, whatever day it was.

00:53:16.820 Check in.

00:53:17.540 It will be my last day of life.

00:53:19.020 Okay.

00:53:19.640 Goodbye.

00:53:20.680 I was there.

00:53:21.520 And I remember thinking, yeah, that's going to sting.

00:53:23.920 But I also was so in it.

00:53:26.180 Like, that's a voice message.

00:53:27.060 Because mom, her body was gone.

00:53:29.180 Yes, her body.

00:53:29.780 Her mind was there, but she was skeletal.

00:53:32.420 She couldn't eat.

00:53:33.560 And she's like, can I please do this?

00:53:35.360 And of course.

00:53:35.880 Yeah, she couldn't take it anymore.

00:53:36.740 Of course.

00:53:37.160 And she had, like, canker sores that were so bad because of the treatment.

00:53:40.320 She couldn't even swallow anything.

00:53:41.700 Yeah.

00:53:41.980 Like, it was such pain.

00:53:43.240 Yeah.

00:53:43.540 It was devastating.

00:53:45.660 And yet, the whole thing was terrifying.

00:53:49.340 It was so awful and unimaginable.

00:53:51.740 And I'm 57 now, and to think she was 55, I thought she seemed older then.

00:53:55.720 It's weird to look past your parents.

00:53:56.200 You know what I mean?

00:53:56.620 But, right.

00:53:57.460 Yeah.

00:53:58.640 But I think I'm really loud and proud about my age because of that.

00:54:02.160 Right.

00:54:02.500 But it was so devastating because that's another thing.

00:54:08.000 Mom had had a mammogram.

00:54:09.680 You said it had missed her mammograms.

00:54:11.920 It was, the tumor was so high, they missed it.

00:54:14.020 Yeah.

00:54:14.420 They missed it.

00:54:15.000 They missed it.

00:54:15.700 Yeah.

00:54:16.480 But.

00:54:16.960 And she found it herself.

00:54:18.620 She found it herself.

00:54:19.240 And it was too late.

00:54:19.520 So, we were in there, and we're in the back, and then two of us.

00:54:22.520 So, the doctor's there, and he administers the first injection.

00:54:25.640 Right.

00:54:25.740 Mom's holding a picture of us, a black and white photo of us.

00:54:28.380 Yeah.

00:54:29.020 Beautiful photo of us.

00:54:30.360 Yeah.

00:54:31.580 Yeah.

00:54:32.020 And when we were little.

00:54:34.340 And I looked at you and said, and she said, how long is this going to take?

00:54:39.960 Oh, see, I don't remember that.

00:54:40.980 My children should not have to endure this.

00:54:43.520 Ah, I don't remember this.

00:54:45.320 Thank you for this.

00:54:46.040 That was.

00:54:46.980 I remember this.

00:54:48.140 I could barely breathe at that point.

00:54:50.380 So, that was when you.

00:54:51.700 And I, and I waited a little longer until she got a little less lucid, and then she grabbed

00:54:57.360 our hands and told us we were her works of art.

00:54:59.800 Yeah, she said that.

00:55:00.860 That was the last thing.

00:55:01.900 Yeah.

00:55:02.140 You know what?

00:55:02.640 I felt like we were.

00:55:03.680 Like, she, we were super close to her.

00:55:05.380 I was her best friend.

00:55:06.200 I traveled with her all over the world.

00:55:07.720 You know, every, and, and then I left.

00:55:11.500 I looked at you, I said, you don't have to stay.

00:55:13.560 And you said, I can't leave her alone.

00:55:15.340 Yeah.

00:55:15.760 And you, you just took off.

00:55:17.580 Yeah.

00:55:17.660 And I, and then the weirdest thing is I went into the living room and I sat on, on Ann

00:55:21.600 Getty's lap.

00:55:22.720 Poor Ann. 1.00

00:55:23.520 I don't know.

00:55:23.820 I was 30 years old.

00:55:25.380 I was like, you're sitting on her lap.

00:55:27.140 I did.

00:55:27.480 Well, she put her arms out.

00:55:29.140 Leaving me for the last breaths.

00:55:31.060 Come on, man.

00:55:32.480 And I, you know, I, we write about it.

00:55:34.760 I write about it.

00:55:34.960 I asked you to go and you wouldn't.

00:55:37.080 And I just, I didn't know what else to do.

00:55:38.900 And I was like, it's okay for you to go.

00:55:40.560 I was like, I mean, my God.

00:55:42.740 I couldn't.

00:55:43.500 Yeah.

00:55:43.700 And it's interesting because I, I similarly didn't leave dad's side.

00:55:48.860 I was laying next to him for the last four days, 24 hours.

00:55:53.600 He passed away shortly after I became governor.

00:55:56.200 Exactly.

00:55:56.780 And lived to watch his son.

00:55:58.440 December 12th.

00:55:59.340 Get elected governor.

00:56:00.540 He didn't make it through the inaugural.

00:56:01.820 He didn't.

00:56:02.520 Nope.

00:56:02.620 To see little Dutch up there and the kids.

00:56:05.520 I wish you, oh my gosh.

00:56:06.620 But, and I write about that.

00:56:07.880 And this book basically runs up till about that time.

00:56:11.180 It's not a book about my governor's race.

00:56:12.780 It's again, it's all, it's everything going back with one exception, that transition, which

00:56:18.400 includes dad's death and then a little bit in the epilogue.

00:56:21.840 No.

00:56:22.240 And it was interesting because with dad, I don't know if I told you this, but I'm lying

00:56:26.980 next to him and this is the night before he dies.

00:56:29.040 He died, he died in the morning and he kept saying mom's name.

00:56:35.420 Dad kept saying Tessa in the middle of the night.

00:56:37.700 And I was like, okay, I think we know where this is heading.

00:56:39.900 Ah, that.

00:56:43.160 Because I got there like an hour later.

00:56:47.220 Maybe not even.

00:56:48.460 I think you were there pretty quickly.

00:56:49.900 You were there within 15 minutes.

00:56:51.900 Of him passing.

00:56:52.560 Yeah.

00:56:52.980 And then you and I sat in the room with him and then you looked outside and you said.

00:56:56.740 And there was that hawk.

00:56:57.340 You're like, Hillary, look, there's a hawk out there. 0.56

00:56:59.420 And literally in the window.

00:56:59.880 Like a peregrine falcon or something.

00:57:01.760 Like it was.

00:57:02.080 Crazy.

00:57:02.860 And then you kept sitting there. 0.96

00:57:04.280 It's like 10 minutes later.

00:57:05.220 Like if there was a spirit animal, you're like, okay, now there's something else going

00:57:10.920 on in the universe.

00:57:11.340 And you literally kept saying, it hasn't moved.

00:57:13.480 Hillary, look, it's still here.

00:57:14.560 And it had never been there.

00:57:15.980 No, never.

00:57:16.940 Seconds after dad passes.

00:57:18.300 And it didn't leave.

00:57:18.980 When his entire history was going bird photographing, bird watching, his obsession with birds.

00:57:25.480 It was crazy.

00:57:27.060 And you kept whispering it.

00:57:28.680 Because I think you thought if you said it loudly, the bird would leave.

00:57:31.500 You're like, it's still there, hell.

00:57:33.000 And we sat there until someone came.

00:57:34.760 Yeah.

00:57:35.000 That was hard.

00:57:35.880 I mean, the good news is, is that, you know, I mean, and I'll say this.

00:57:41.260 You're in a hurry.

00:57:43.300 You're super busy.

00:57:45.080 But I've never doubted for one second that you always have my back.

00:57:49.580 No, I love that.

00:57:50.640 And we're so lucky for that.

00:57:52.520 You know what I mean?

00:57:52.820 Because these are things, like, even in that moment where I was upset with you, I, with mom, I really, it really resonated in the book with me that I did read, that you stayed focused on work because then it wouldn't happen.

00:58:09.600 And I didn't get it at the time.

00:58:11.680 And I got it later.

00:58:13.320 I got it later.

00:58:14.160 I'm like, he wasn't there because if he was there, then mom would die.

00:58:17.820 And if you weren't there, she couldn't leave you.

00:58:19.740 You know what I mean?

00:58:20.000 Like, I think I intellectualized it somehow like that made me feel better.

00:58:23.500 Well, I think it's, yeah.

00:58:24.260 And just, I mean, it's just when, you know, when you, when you can't control something, you control what you can control, which is your work and that effort.

00:58:31.120 I just, you need to try to compartmentalize.

00:58:33.600 And so much of it, like in this bracket of politics, getting just crushed 24, I mean, like literally every, you know, this, you see what's on like every 10 minutes trying to just, and like, I mean, I want to pick up my phone right after this and be like, oh God, now what?

00:58:48.360 And so you have to compartmentalize in order to get through the day.

00:58:52.000 You just have to.

00:58:52.780 And so it's been, it's all my life, but it's, you know, it's shaped a lot of it by those early experiences.

00:58:58.780 And by the way, including mom's early experiences, we talk about that in the book, the stuff I didn't fully appreciate.

00:59:03.740 Her dad who took his life, not an assisted suicide, but a suicide, the gun's head.

00:59:09.640 He was a prisoner of war in Corregidor, came back at severe drinking problems, but also put a gun to his daughters, both of them, mom and her sister's head against the fireplace.

00:59:21.140 And Annie and mom never would have told us that story.

00:59:22.800 They don't talk about that.

00:59:23.760 They never have.

00:59:24.160 And so that early trauma sort of echoes, right?

00:59:26.460 Just generations and, you know, it's all that.

00:59:28.740 But you mentioned, and, you know, just, I don't want to, I don't want to take too much more of your time, but we talked a little bit, we talked only a tiny bit about the Gettys.

00:59:39.180 You mentioned Ann Getty.

00:59:39.940 And not a lot about the Gettys, which play a huge role in this.

00:59:43.440 And Gettys are a wealthy family that dad grew up with in high school, knew two members of the family.

00:59:50.600 Their father at the time was arguably the richest man in the world, J. Paul Getty, oil, you know, oil primarily as his business.

01:00:00.240 And so much of his life was shaped in that relationship.

01:00:04.140 So much of our life ultimately became shaped in that relationship.

01:00:07.080 So we've described mom in that respect.

01:00:09.200 We've described dad's advocacy and his love for the environment and adventure and, you know, and, you know, all things Sars Shriver is Bobby Kennedy behind me.

01:00:17.460 You know, this notion of solving for ignorance, poverty, and disease.

01:00:20.860 And so the vernacular of the 60s that defined dad in terms of social justice, racial justice.

01:00:25.220 But he also, as an advocate for the family, his life was shaped and our lives were shaped by the Gettys.

01:00:33.160 Do you have any early memories?

01:00:34.620 Oh, all of them.

01:00:35.580 I mean, you know, it's funny because when dad was in the hospital and we had to make the decision of do we bring him home and we knew what that meant.

01:00:44.900 And I remember Ann and Gordon running into the hospital.

01:00:49.160 Ann and Gordon Getty.

01:00:49.960 Ann and Gordon Getty running into the hospital.

01:00:52.600 And Ann grabs my hand.

01:00:55.020 His best friend, Gordon, from high school.

01:00:56.360 Well, I'm going to tell you that sweet story.

01:00:59.080 So she grabbed my hand and she said, you're mine, Hillary.

01:01:04.240 You're mine.

01:01:04.880 You're my girl.

01:01:05.880 And you always have been.

01:01:07.020 And you're going to be okay.

01:01:08.520 And hugged me.

01:01:09.860 And I remember that Gordon, the night before dad died.

01:01:12.820 And by the way, that's saying something.

01:01:14.640 After you lose your mom and, you know, and then you lose your dad.

01:01:19.340 Yeah.

01:01:19.640 To have someone like that saying, you know, I got you.

01:01:22.300 Yeah.

01:01:22.600 She's like, you're mine and you're always here for you and you're going to be okay.

01:01:26.520 And then you and I were sitting at the house the night before dad passed.

01:01:29.520 And Gordon said, you know, a lot of people say, and you have a version of this in the book,

01:01:33.440 but a lot of people say they're Bill Newsom's best friend.

01:01:36.260 He said, but I'm his best, best friend.

01:01:38.920 Best, best.

01:01:39.240 And that's exactly what Gordon Getty said.

01:01:41.100 So, but back to the early childhood.

01:01:43.160 I mean, we grew up going to their house from, I mean, we grew up with the kids.

01:01:47.780 We traveled with them on, you know, dozens and dozens of trips, big and small.

01:01:53.580 I write about them in the book.

01:01:54.720 Like, I mean, crazy King Juan Carlos and just like, but also, but like, but then just river

01:02:00.340 rafting, like just camping and out there, not glamping, like legit out there, like more

01:02:06.860 rugged, more traditional stuff you would, you know, that a lot of us get a Winnebago type

01:02:11.360 thing to do.

01:02:12.780 And, and then these crazy sort of, you know, 10 star, not five star trips.

01:02:17.820 Yeah.

01:02:18.260 And just always loving us always.

01:02:20.920 And, and I think I was, I was much closer to Anne when I was younger because she had

01:02:25.840 the boys, you know, the four plus one and me, I was the girl.

01:02:30.560 So I was, I was so close to her.

01:02:32.640 She was so loving.

01:02:33.840 I mean, she hosted Toledo's Sweet 16 and, you know, and, and Sienna and Toledo both went

01:02:39.020 to her school and she was so loving to Jeff.

01:02:41.400 I mean, we had a really close relationship.

01:02:43.060 She hosted all sorts of parties and things like that for us and for me and, and she

01:02:48.120 loved mom, even though that was awkward.

01:02:49.840 Right.

01:02:50.280 And so because of the divorce, she taught mom to needlepoint.

01:02:54.080 I don't know if you know that.

01:02:55.200 Yeah.

01:02:55.460 And so she was just a beautiful person.

01:02:57.300 But what I think people don't realize about Anne in particular is that Anne Getty is the 0.99

01:03:01.260 most, was the most humble, like not fancy.

01:03:03.960 We, I remember we went to India, that trip that you describe, I think that Anne took mom

01:03:07.960 and me and Barbara and we were gone for three weeks.

01:03:11.120 Your Aunt Barbara.

01:03:11.600 Yeah, Barbara Newsom. 1.00

01:03:12.540 Yeah.

01:03:12.780 And literally every single person who was on the periphery of the trip was like, oh,

01:03:18.140 this isn't, you know, the nicest hotel.

01:03:19.680 And Anne just went with it.

01:03:21.440 I mean, she was authentic.

01:03:23.440 She wasn't pretentious.

01:03:25.320 She was approachable.

01:03:26.560 And when she died, she died years ago.

01:03:28.520 And I actually, it got edited out.

01:03:31.480 I write about the phone call I got when she died.

01:03:33.900 It was devastating.

01:03:35.180 Devastating.

01:03:35.920 Devastating.

01:03:36.640 Like, because that was what she, I didn't know she said that to you, but I always felt that

01:03:41.040 with Anne and she was going to be alive for the rest of our life.

01:03:43.900 You know, it was like, and she was going to be that.

01:03:46.300 And then when she died, that was, I was, it was a few years ago.

01:03:50.420 I don't know.

01:03:50.720 I was right there at Fair Oaks and in my closet and Stanley, our close friend called.

01:03:56.440 And I just remember just falling down on a chair and then I couldn't talk and I hung

01:04:00.780 up on him.

01:04:01.320 I said, I can't deal with this.

01:04:02.700 Yeah.

01:04:03.340 No, it was devastating because she truly was family.

01:04:06.780 And, and, you know, every time I had, I was sick or had a surgery or something, I always

01:04:11.680 recovered at her house.

01:04:12.740 She always looked out after me.

01:04:14.300 She was our fairy godmother.

01:04:16.380 Our fairy godmother.

01:04:17.060 And she knew, she knew how to behave with mom, meaning she knew that we had to compartmentalize

01:04:23.340 everything.

01:04:24.320 And she'd always send me home though with a present for mom.

01:04:27.460 And I think we've, I think, you know, we, we sort of put it aside and let her find it

01:04:32.400 herself because we didn't want to, but she always thought of her.

01:04:34.820 But mom wasn't part of those early trips.

01:04:36.260 So that came later.

01:04:37.320 This mom was like, we would go on these exotic trips.

01:04:40.560 Mom was 54 when she went on her first trip the year before she died.

01:04:43.240 So she was never part of that.

01:04:44.960 And then she would watch her two kids go on these exotic vacations.

01:04:48.480 Drop us off on a private, to a private plane.

01:04:50.340 Yeah, private, 51 weeks a year.

01:04:53.100 We're at mom's.

01:04:53.640 In one week we do this thing and we come back and mom would be like, oh. 1.00

01:04:57.460 I hope you enjoyed the trip.

01:04:59.840 Good night.

01:05:00.940 And then never talk about it again.

01:05:02.180 And we drag our bags and have to unpack and was, you didn't want to talk about it.

01:05:06.020 She was like, I said to the passive aggressive, hope you had fun.

01:05:10.020 I was here working three jobs, but I'm a grinder.

01:05:12.940 I'm yeah.

01:05:13.340 I like the hard work.

01:05:14.380 I love the hard work.

01:05:15.280 I'm not a guy that dials it in.

01:05:16.580 No, you, you never have.

01:05:17.700 Except in this interview.

01:05:18.680 I dialed in another interview.

01:05:19.700 I confess I did not.

01:05:20.720 This interview?

01:05:21.440 Yeah.

01:05:21.580 I didn't fully prepare for this interview because I would have come with the receipts to challenge

01:05:26.700 some of your assertions and assumptions.

01:05:29.240 Yeah.

01:05:29.600 I would have called you out.

01:05:30.600 I mean, this has gone through scrutiny and fact check though.

01:05:34.560 You suggest 13 when I think you were 13 up there.

01:05:38.580 I wasn't 13.

01:05:39.440 You were 12.

01:05:39.880 I was 12.

01:05:40.880 And that was humiliating.

01:05:41.660 I hate getting that wrong.

01:05:42.260 That was humiliating.

01:05:43.260 Well, you put it.

01:05:43.940 You said it because you said it was okay.

01:05:46.980 I'm going to help that one person out there.

01:05:48.040 You said it was okay.

01:05:48.820 And this is the bedwetting thing.

01:05:50.160 Yeah, but it's horrible.

01:05:51.220 So she wanted me to include it.

01:05:52.040 But you know why it's relevant?

01:05:53.880 Why?

01:05:54.300 Because you protected me and you made sure that nobody made fun of me.

01:05:58.540 Oh, that's true.

01:05:58.940 That's the reason it's in there.

01:06:00.840 It's not in there to make me embarrassed.

01:06:02.520 I'm glad it wasn't.

01:06:03.820 You know, I didn't know I was.

01:06:04.780 You never know.

01:06:05.320 Like older brother. 0.99

01:06:06.580 Was I a jerk? 0.99

01:06:07.260 Well, you were kind of abusive when we were really little. 0.99

01:06:10.080 You, we watched a lot of.

01:06:11.500 It was going really well.

01:06:13.960 We used to watch a lot of cartoons.

01:06:15.760 And when we lived on Toledo Way with Rachel, Robin, and Rebecca,

01:06:19.240 mom slept in the dining room, as you noted.

01:06:22.120 Yeah, this is our.

01:06:22.900 And it has a wooden, there was a wooden bed frame.

01:06:25.000 And then it just, the bed sat in it.

01:06:27.300 So, but it was like on the floor, remember?

01:06:28.600 Yeah.

01:06:28.960 So it was just like a box around a bed.

01:06:30.620 I remember, yeah.

01:06:31.360 And you used to take me and spin me around until my arm popped out of the socket.

01:06:38.000 You actually did have an arm.

01:06:39.360 I remember that.

01:06:39.640 One of the times I fell onto the corner of the bed.

01:06:44.740 The bed.

01:06:45.140 Yeah.

01:06:45.740 You broke the window at least on three occasions.

01:06:49.560 Thank God Uncle Paul always saved the day and came over and he also taught us how to

01:06:54.480 pop my arm back in.

01:06:55.640 And then you would make me run down the hall and try and slip on a banana peel because

01:06:59.420 you thought it was so funny.

01:07:00.560 So you were like reenacting.

01:07:02.000 Yeah.

01:07:02.200 I mean, thank God we were watching Roadrunner and you didn't give me dynamite in my pocket

01:07:07.620 or something.

01:07:08.220 Oh, I get it.

01:07:08.660 You're saying that I was watching.

01:07:09.520 You were watching these like, hey, Hillary, look, slip on a banana peel. 1.00

01:07:14.120 I'm like, that sounds great.

01:07:15.600 Maybe it explains my four kids right now.

01:07:21.680 A little bit of grace.

01:07:22.660 Well, that's the thing.

01:07:23.600 Every time you're like, don't do that.

01:07:25.120 I'm like, he did it.

01:07:26.020 He did it.

01:07:26.800 He did it 10 times.

01:07:28.400 Mom raising two kids on her own.

01:07:30.120 Now that's brutal.

01:07:30.760 I can't even, I got a rock star wife and we have some help periodically, but how to,

01:07:35.360 including you that come over and help the kids.

01:07:37.680 And I'm like overwhelmed.

01:07:38.800 I can't handle it.

01:07:39.520 Like last night I had to go.

01:07:40.680 I'm like, I can't do with this.

01:07:41.680 That's the best part.

01:07:42.360 So when you left last night, we were at an event with the speaker to be, Hakeem Jeffries

01:07:48.180 and Nancy Pelosi with Gordon.

01:07:50.020 Gordon Getty.

01:07:50.740 Yeah.

01:07:51.000 At their house.

01:07:51.700 What a homecoming in so many ways.

01:07:53.220 It was a fundraiser for getting the congressional majority back.

01:07:56.580 Yeah.

01:07:56.800 And Gavin announced it.

01:07:58.040 You announced you had to leave because your wife was out of town and you didn't have a

01:08:01.260 babysitter.

01:08:01.780 And then I looked at my table and I said, because the babysitter's right here.

01:08:07.820 And I got a good laugh out of that.

01:08:09.340 And the truth, but you know, you know how mom did it.

01:08:13.760 A lot of it was uncle Paul and aunt Danny.

01:08:16.300 A lot.

01:08:16.760 Yeah.

01:08:16.920 They helped.

01:08:17.180 They were very, they were big.

01:08:18.960 They were huge.

01:08:19.700 And I write about Paul lovingly and, and, and, and, and his, both of them in terms of

01:08:24.500 their influence.

01:08:25.520 Yeah.

01:08:25.660 No, I mean, we're, look, we're blessed.

01:08:27.240 I mean, and that was the thing.

01:08:28.500 I mean, we were blessed.

01:08:29.440 I mean, despite, you know, the, it just, one of the reasons I want to write this book

01:08:33.460 is mom deserved the real story.

01:08:35.920 I'm glad.

01:08:36.420 Because I'm so sick and tired of this notion that everything was handed and you

01:08:40.560 deserved it.

01:08:41.580 You know, it's like, we deserve it.

01:08:43.040 You know, it's like, come on, hate me politically character.

01:08:46.500 And I played into it. 0.95

01:08:47.460 I'm not an idiot. 0.87

01:08:48.660 I've done a million things to play type.

01:08:50.420 And I write about that.

01:08:51.400 Yeah, you do.

01:08:52.280 I appreciate how honest.

01:08:53.260 No.

01:08:53.900 And, and that's the thing.

01:08:55.280 I'm trying to like really scrutinize.

01:08:57.160 I'm like, I get it.

01:08:58.400 But, but I also want you to get that other people around me don't deserve to be piled

01:09:04.940 into that.

01:09:05.520 And so I, in some way, in, in many ways, it wasn't just about me telling my story.

01:09:09.760 It was allowing you guys all the grace of your story, this space where you aren't characterized

01:09:15.520 or caricatured as something you're not.

01:09:17.660 You know, I mean, we've worked, and that's the thing I tell people all the time when

01:09:22.820 they're like, oh, Silver Spoon, I'm like, why, why are you so angry that he's successful

01:09:27.640 because he works so hard?

01:09:29.560 You don't have boundaries.

01:09:31.980 You give and give and give and give.

01:09:33.760 And you, I mean, every minute of every day, if you're not with the kids or Jen or, you

01:09:40.000 know, working, you're teaching yourself something new.

01:09:43.480 You're learning, you're absorbing, you're, I mean, also, and you make, you know,

01:09:47.660 you make so many sacrifices, and so what if you dress nice?

01:09:50.640 That's great.

01:09:52.040 You know?

01:09:52.660 You like my shirt?

01:09:53.380 That is, yeah, I think I gave you that for Christmas.

01:09:55.160 This is actually a new shirt.

01:09:56.460 It's my new, it's my new blue shirt, which is pretty much the only shirt that I will wear.

01:10:01.780 I was going to say, it's blue or white.

01:10:03.240 I was wondering which color we were going to come with.

01:10:05.640 I have literally two gears.

01:10:06.340 I was surprised, I'm surprised you went gray. 0.63

01:10:08.660 I thought maybe you would be like, you know, scared, like nervous.

01:10:11.340 You really are doing this?

01:10:13.140 I exposed my dippity-doo the first time I used. 0.90

01:10:17.660 You know, translucent gel from Walgreens.

01:10:20.240 My God, and I had to pay you $5 to try on Levi's Shrink to fit jeans.

01:10:24.180 Because I was wearing a suit. 0.98

01:10:25.640 God, I was such a loser. 0.93

01:10:27.320 It wasn't a loser, it was an innovator. 0.92

01:10:29.600 And you do, you really.

01:10:30.360 Innovator, I was like.

01:10:31.780 I will say.

01:10:32.480 I was like, I was.

01:10:34.120 You're an entrepreneur.

01:10:35.380 You were an entrepreneur from the gate.

01:10:37.000 Like all those things, you know, those money-making schemes that ruined our backyard.

01:10:41.100 But legit.

01:10:42.460 And I see that in your son Hunter, too.

01:10:44.580 He's always come up with.

01:10:45.700 I love that.

01:10:46.600 Yeah.

01:10:46.800 I love that.

01:10:47.200 I just got to have that entrepreneurial mindset.

01:10:48.600 Got to increase the number of tries.

01:10:49.880 Try new things.

01:10:50.760 Learn from mistakes.

01:10:51.560 Be willing to make mistakes.

01:10:52.920 Yeah, your kids are perfect.

01:10:54.540 I love them.

01:10:55.360 And I swear, I continue to go back to this.

01:10:58.140 It's the gift.

01:10:59.060 Oh, God.

01:10:59.740 I'm so lucky.

01:11:01.040 Because I can't do things the way other people can do it.

01:11:03.900 Can't read those speeches.

01:11:04.900 You have to make up for it in other ways.

01:11:06.800 You overcompensate.

01:11:08.460 But you also, you have a visual.

01:11:09.660 There's a visual quality.

01:11:11.120 I'm not sure it's reflected in the set necessarily.

01:11:13.560 It's so good you talk about it so openly, though.

01:11:15.340 Because I remember when you spoke at Comfort of the Sacred Heart, where the girls were going

01:11:18.320 to school when they were in second and fourth grade, I think.

01:11:20.840 And the head of school said, what you did in five minutes, you know, these kids who are

01:11:25.540 dyslexic, could hear for 15 years through therapy and parents.

01:11:30.500 And that you change their mindset in a minute, in an instant.

01:11:33.840 So the fact that you have constantly talked about your dyslexia and how you're so successful

01:11:39.300 and you've overcome it has been really important.

01:11:41.580 No, it was so cool.

01:11:42.360 I was just at the JFK library, which, by the way, you can appreciate for me.

01:11:46.840 Oh, for you.

01:11:47.220 Yeah.

01:11:47.540 Like, I mean, it's like a shrine.

01:11:50.360 Yeah.

01:11:50.900 You know, Bobby and I'm talking about the book.

01:11:54.460 And then there was, of course, what's the best memory I have?

01:11:57.520 This little kid, he had a suit and tie on.

01:12:00.220 This is sweet.

01:12:00.940 And he comes up and his mom, he's very nervous, puts his head down.

01:12:05.400 He says, I have dyslexia, too.

01:12:07.060 Oh, God.

01:12:07.580 That's too sweet.

01:12:07.620 And I'm like, I get down on my knees.

01:12:09.440 That's so sweet.

01:12:10.340 I look at him, I'm tearing up.

01:12:11.800 I'm just talking to him.

01:12:12.920 Yeah.

01:12:13.420 And I'm like, how are you, you know, you're doing all right?

01:12:16.400 No, you're not giving up.

01:12:17.400 He's like, I'm not giving up.

01:12:18.340 Oh, God, that's too sweet.

01:12:19.480 And I'm like, and I give him a hug.

01:12:22.820 And then he walks away.

01:12:23.520 I'm like, oh, God, that was me.

01:12:24.760 But I never had the guts to be that me.

01:12:26.680 Yeah.

01:12:26.900 You know, I'm like.

01:12:28.040 But that's so important.

01:12:29.240 And that courage.

01:12:30.200 Because it's courageous that you talk about all of your flaws, too.

01:12:34.580 And I appreciate it.

01:12:35.540 Because in the moments when you were making mistakes, and I called you out on them.

01:12:40.300 All of them are in the book.

01:12:41.840 There might be others.

01:12:42.300 By the reason you should buy the book.

01:12:44.740 My book's coming out soon.

01:12:46.300 And it has the rest of the flaws in it.

01:12:48.000 Oh, gosh.

01:12:49.420 Yeah, no.

01:12:50.040 But I would say that, you know, you didn't shy away.

01:12:53.440 And I think that, for me, shows integrity.

01:12:56.320 Because that's not easy, to put out all your mistakes.

01:12:59.260 Well, that's, you know, it's called life.

01:13:02.220 Yeah.

01:13:02.940 Not perfection.

01:13:03.980 It's a journey.

01:13:05.020 And I'm still on it.

01:13:05.760 You're doing it.

01:13:05.980 Trying to get better.

01:13:07.400 We'll make more mistakes.

01:13:09.600 I just hope it's not the same ones.

01:13:11.720 Yeah.

01:13:11.880 With that, I'm not going to make the mistake of inviting you back to talk about some of those

01:13:18.260 flaws.

01:13:18.820 So, this has been Hillary Newsom. 0.99

01:13:23.700 This is Gavin Newsom.

01:13:26.420 Thank you.

01:13:27.080 Ego Woda is your host for the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest.

01:13:38.060 Hello, is anybody there?

01:13:39.320 Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues.

01:13:42.980 Are we supposed to talk about your dad?

01:13:44.520 Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including

01:13:48.960 fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated

01:13:54.260 relationships with their fathers.

01:13:55.720 I think and hope that's a good thing.

01:13:57.240 Get to know Ego.

01:13:58.200 Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Woda and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

01:14:02.380 You know Roald Dahl.

01:14:04.520 He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG.

01:14:07.200 But did you know he was a spy?

01:14:09.520 In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roald Dahl, I'll tell you that story and much,

01:14:14.480 much more.

01:14:15.340 What?

01:14:16.160 You probably won't believe it either.

01:14:17.900 Was this before he wrote his stories?

01:14:19.600 It must have been.

01:14:20.980 Okay, I don't think that's true.

01:14:23.040 I'm telling you.

01:14:24.320 The guy was a spy.

01:14:25.700 Listen to The Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

01:14:30.980 you get your podcasts.

01:14:32.380 Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast.

01:14:36.260 My latest episode is with Hilary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platinum artist.

01:14:41.200 You desire in family, like, this picture, and that's not reality.

01:14:47.120 My sister and I don't speak.

01:14:48.860 It's definitely a very painful part of my life.

01:14:52.900 And I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now.

01:14:56.360 Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

01:15:01.140 or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:15:03.400 Tonight, our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at South by Southwest.

01:15:08.560 This is the biggest night in podcasting.

01:15:10.660 We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative

01:15:15.180 talent and creators in the industry.

01:15:17.060 And the winner is...

01:15:18.400 Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display.

01:15:22.740 Thank you so much, iHeartRadio.

01:15:24.800 Thank you to all the other nominees.

01:15:26.320 You guys are awesome.

01:15:27.280 Watch live tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific, free at veeps.com or the veeps app.

01:15:32.760 I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story

01:15:39.800 of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023.

01:15:44.560 But what if we didn't get the whole story?

01:15:46.800 I've just been made to fit.

01:15:48.360 The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed.

01:15:50.760 What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?

01:15:54.360 Oh my God, I think she might be innocent.

01:15:55.900 Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

01:16:02.280 you get your podcasts.

01:16:04.500 This is an iHeart Podcast.

01:16:07.020 Guaranteed human.

This is Gavin Newsom - March 14, 2026

And, This Is How We Were Really Raised with Gavin's Sister Hilary

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