This is Gavin Newsom - And, This is Rahm Emanuel on How Crony Capitalism And Trump’s Tariffs Will Kill The “American Dream”

00:00:00.000 I'm Israel Gutierrez, and I'm hosting a new podcast, Dub Dynasty, the story of how the

00:00:05.120 Golden State Warriors have dominated the NBA for over a decade. The Golden State Warriors once

00:00:10.720 again are NBA champions. Today, the Warriors dynasty remains alive, in large part because

00:00:16.920 of a scrawny six-foot-two hooper who everyone seems to love. For what Steph has done for the

00:00:21.780 game, he's certainly on that Mount Rushmore. Come revisit this magical Warriors ride.

00:00:26.560 Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

00:00:31.840 podcasts.

00:00:34.760 What's up, y'all? I'm AJ Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman

00:00:39.320 to win a Rawlings Gold Glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the

00:00:44.500 world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and

00:00:49.400 empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an Athletes

00:00:55.460 Unlimited Softball League production in partnership with iHeart Women's Sports and Deep Blue Sports

00:00:59.860 and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

00:01:04.640 Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:07.600 Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

00:01:11.740 Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeart Media. I'm excited to introduce a brand

00:01:16.240 new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having

00:01:21.260 conversations with some folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach

00:01:25.780 the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use.

00:01:29.480 I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty, Tarang Amin.

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00:01:52.060 creative spark, the magic. Listen to Math and Magic on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:01:59.660 My name is Brendan Patrick-Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical

00:02:04.920 nuns in combat boots and wild-haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell-bent

00:02:11.180 effort to sabotage a war.

00:02:13.580 J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind. And he wanted to bring the Catholic

00:02:19.520 left to its knees.

00:02:22.700 Listen to Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

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00:02:59.460 Today, I initiated a lawsuit against the Trump administration on behalf of the people of the

00:03:03.800 state of California, asserting that Trump does not have the unilateral authority to impose

00:03:08.780 one of the largest tax increases in U.S. history. Impacts of these tariffs are disproportionately

00:03:15.680 being felt here in California. The number one manufacturing state in America, a state that

00:03:22.100 will be significantly impacted by this unilateral decision by the president of the United States.

00:03:28.820 I'm looking forward to talking about that more with my next guest. We'll talk trade, we'll

00:03:33.200 talk tariffs, we'll talk about what happened in the last election. Is this 2004 all over

00:03:38.560 again? Are Democrats ready for a big comeback? And what does the future hold to my next guest?

00:03:44.580 Is he running for president of the United States?

00:03:48.720 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:03:51.960 And this is Rahm Emanuel.

00:03:55.720 Rahm, thanks for coming on the show.

00:03:57.940 And before we get started, there's so many issues that I want to get to in a relatively short period

00:04:02.320 of time. We'll talk, obviously, about the state of the Democratic Party, the state of our union

00:04:07.520 tariffs issues, obviously related to your service and time in Asia. But top of mind this week is

00:04:15.640 so much of the attention on Harvard University and their pushback, which, you know, generated a lot

00:04:22.980 of interest, including from your old boss, President Obama, who tweeted out a very positive statement on behalf of

00:04:29.680 Harvard, asserting that it's time to assert universities to assert themselves more aggressively as it relates to what

00:04:36.600 Trump's trying to do. I'm just curious what your thoughts were on Harvard and moreover what's happening with higher

00:04:42.320 education in respect to the Trump administration.

00:04:45.860 Well, I'm of a couple of minds on higher education. And one is, I mean, I don't think anybody's pointed this out, but, you know,

00:04:54.600 Donald Trump started his kind of introduction into public life in one way or another with Roy Cohn, who is Joe

00:05:00.700 McCarthy's right-hand man. And the attack on universities, infamous back in the McCarthy era, squashing both the role

00:05:09.800 the universities played in our civil life and also academic freedom. And that's one element. The second element

00:05:18.820 is, you know, having been in Japan, but I knew this without going to Japan, the American university system, I mean,

00:05:25.940 California, you know, this firsthand, and its role that it plays from a research and development on

00:05:31.260 cutting edge technologies, new entrepreneur, not only entrepreneurs, but new entrepreneurship, new ideas,

00:05:38.040 new business models. I met somebody from Stanford the other day in the AI space, who's now got a company

00:05:44.380 that's an example of what is so unique and people, Japan, Israel, I can give you all over the world and

00:05:51.960 Europe, all admire what we have built year over year over year. And not only is the political

00:05:57.180 freedom happening, but we're actually now killing the goose that laid the golden egg for America's

00:06:02.100 economic competitiveness. And then third, if you think of the future on the international level,

00:06:08.300 as a battle, not of a cold war in the sense of ideological Soviet Union versus the free world,

00:06:15.140 but as a technological battle and competition between the United States and China,

00:06:18.800 we are really unilaterally disarmed. And then fourth and finally, Governor, I take offense

00:06:26.660 as an American and as a Jewish American, the idea that you're going to use anti-Semitism or what

00:06:35.820 universities had as a culture, and I think there's a legitimate point to address that and reform that,

00:06:41.940 but using anti-Semitism to literally destroy our academic institutions and universities and that's

00:06:50.960 how they're getting the goods through customs, so quote unquote, dealing with anti-Semitism.

00:06:56.200 And, you know, you and I are talking on Passover, the week of Passover, the idea that the Jewish

00:07:03.180 community would find any comfort with one person's opinion as opposed to the rule of law.

00:07:09.180 Well, I got 2,000 years of history that tells you that doesn't turn out well.

00:07:13.780 So I can go at this like five different angles and I'm hoping Harvard and not just Harvard,

00:07:22.180 but other universities, other law firms, other institutions, and I would say that to the Supreme

00:07:27.360 Court. You're going to find out whether that black robe is a Halloween costume or you actually

00:07:33.400 earned it and understand it because he's challenging you. There's nothing sacred.

00:07:37.940 So everybody's going to have to decide, you know, and reach deep down. Harvard has. Other

00:07:44.880 universities are going to have to do the same and decide that, you know what, there's something,

00:07:49.340 a set of principles here that are more important than accommodation.

00:07:54.120 And I appreciate the reference on the rule of law, particularly as it relates to the Supreme

00:07:58.660 Court, but I'm just curious, I mean, it's interesting, you, sort of an origin story with

00:08:02.040 Roy that I hadn't really considered. But what, I mean, is there something, I mean, you know, he talks

00:08:09.500 often, Trump, doesn't he, about how highly educated people are. He's always impressed with people's

00:08:13.920 looks. He's impressed with their education. Well, looks has nothing to do with how educated

00:08:18.260 you are. No, no question about that. But what is, I mean, so it's an interesting thing to me,

00:08:23.940 just as an observer, someone watches, obviously, Trump closely, this notion that higher education,

00:08:29.000 some establishment plot. Is there some, is this a political agenda? Is this a 2025 agenda?

00:08:34.960 They're getting their goods through customs here. Look, first of all, the whole idea of tenure

00:08:42.060 for professors was built coming out of the McCarthy era. So you could not be prosecuted for your

00:08:47.840 political views. That's the origin of it. That's where tenure as a concept is nurtured. If I'm reading

00:08:56.600 history correctly, that's where it comes from.

00:08:59.000 And professors were given a ability to be protected professionally for, and not being

00:09:05.040 prosecuted for any political expression or views. And now, were there things that universities

00:09:13.720 got way off track on? A hundred percent. Were there reforms that were needed to be done?

00:09:19.380 Yeah. And there's not a university president or a board member that wouldn't tell you that

00:09:24.620 was true. Destroying the academic, not only freedom, but also the research elements and trying

00:09:30.660 to coerce their behavior. Now we're going to the worst of McCarthyism. And I don't think it's a

00:09:36.500 coincidence. I think it's actually correct. Donald Trump's mentor in public life is Roy Cohn,

00:09:43.120 who was also Joe McCarthy's mentor and sidekick. And so we're living in a period of time. And I don't

00:09:51.480 think, I don't think I'm being dramatic or hyperbolic, but that's the period of time

00:09:58.840 these institutions, not just Ivy League, but public universities as well, have a history of them

00:10:05.400 having stood up, having their voices heard and pushed back. And I know you want to stay in this

00:10:10.140 area. And I just, so I just say this, I find it offensive that you're using quote unquote

00:10:15.800 anti-Semitism that was perpetuated on the universities to really deal with your political

00:10:25.060 agenda. So let me just say this, like the student at Columbia, the, I disagree with his views on Hamas.

00:10:31.740 I disagree with his, what happened on, obviously what happened on October 7th. You want to deal

00:10:36.560 with him in some way, have him force him to do community service as an intern at the Holocaust

00:10:40.720 Museum for a year. Right. Now, all he was, he was expressing his views, which I find abhorrent,

00:10:46.320 and I think the American people will see it. Killing 1200 citizens because they were Jewish

00:10:51.060 is not acceptable. Cutting a fetus out of a woman is not only unacceptable, it's a crime.

00:10:59.940 Okay. And you want to identify with that. We can handle that as a country without having to destroy

00:11:05.000 either Columbia University, Harvard University, or a public university.

00:11:08.500 You know, well said. And so, no, look, I, I appreciate that. Of course, I'm, you know,

00:11:13.320 serving on the UC regions board as a Lieutenant governor and governor, no more precious system.

00:11:18.500 From my perspective, in terms of conveyor belt for talent for this country and the research and

00:11:23.060 development component of that, and you're extending beyond that. I mean, the NIH grants and all the

00:11:28.380 other efforts to really wreck the systems. Put the research aside. Could you reform it? Yes.

00:11:33.900 The universities were skimming some dollars. That's an easy way to reform, but don't throw out

00:11:38.900 the goose that lays the golden egg. The second is, as it relates to academic, not academic freedoms,

00:11:45.580 things that were done to Jewish students, Jewish culture, Jewish life on universities that would

00:11:52.380 never be accepted to any other minority group. And that too had to be dealt with. And the universities

00:11:58.040 being forthcoming about that would be helpful. But don't use an anti-Semitism or the attack on the

00:12:05.120 Jewish community at a university to, as your way of getting your goods through customs, to actually

00:12:10.220 fulfill a political agenda that was articulated in Project 2025, way beforehand.

00:12:17.040 That's right. So let's, you know, and just sort of segue from Harvard. I mean, there are a number of

00:12:21.540 Harvard graduates that happen to be members of the Supreme Court, and you referenced the court,

00:12:25.720 and obviously another big story in the last few days has been referenced in the Oval Office visit

00:12:31.260 with President Bukele of El Salvador and the conversation that was very publicly held in the Oval

00:12:37.180 Office related to issues around the Supreme Court's 9-0 decision and the defiance, apparently the defiance of

00:12:45.640 Pam Biondi, the attorney general, and obviously the president himself, including the president of El

00:12:50.800 Salvador as it relates to that ruling. I mean, how concerned are you? People have talked about

00:12:55.620 a constitutional crisis. They talk about red lines. They talk about the foundational principles of

00:13:01.540 our founding fathers, three independent branches of government. When you defy or apparently defy a

00:13:07.380 Supreme Court ruling, have we crossed that red line? Are we on the other side of this? Are we being

00:13:12.120 hyperbolic? Well, I don't think you're being hyperbolic. Look, I think we're going to find out whether

00:13:19.400 they're the black robes that the members of the court wear are a hollowing costume, or they represent

00:13:25.520 the dignity of the court and its opinion as a co-equal branch of government. They were not ambiguous as

00:13:32.400 related to the individual in that the United States acknowledged they wrongfully sent to the El Salvador

00:13:39.100 prison. Now, the court is either going to show that the court's opinions are the final verdict and

00:13:49.100 opinion now need to be executed by the executive branch. And if he defies them and they take no step

00:13:54.260 in that, you know, there's a lot of ways to deal with, I mean, you know, individual citizens that are

00:14:00.760 held in contempt of the court. There's a lot of different ways to deal with this. And look,

00:14:05.360 I go back to when Chief Justice Roberts was being confirmed by the Senate. He said that judges are

00:14:13.760 like umpires. That was his words. They call balls and strikes. Well, you called this one. Now, either

00:14:21.280 you're going to allow your opinion as a umpire, which I happen to think is a horrible metaphor,

00:14:28.300 but you used it. And you're going to let your opinion hold the day. Or basically, it's a fungible

00:14:37.100 opinion. It doesn't matter what you say. Now, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know if you are a governor.

00:14:43.240 But I studied the Constitution. I always understood there were three branches, co-equal branches of

00:14:48.120 government, not one above all others. We're going to find out something about the court,

00:14:54.140 not just the president. Amen. The best of the Roman Republic, Greek democracy,

00:14:59.300 independent co-equal branches of government, popular sovereignty, sort of fundamental principles

00:15:03.700 we've been celebrating for 240 plus years. Look, we've also been sort of reflecting in the last

00:15:11.980 few weeks, the years and years that Donald Trump himself and back to, I think, the origin story. And I

00:15:18.380 think it's really interesting and insightful how you began the conversation as it relates to

00:15:22.760 Roy Cohen and in the history of McCarthyism in relationship to this moment. And so much,

00:15:27.700 I think, about Trump goes back to sort of indelible ideological perspectives that he's had for years

00:15:34.940 and years and years. And I don't think we give enough credence to that, including on the issue that

00:15:40.140 connects to you in a more modern term and your ambassadorial time in Japan. And that's the issue

00:15:47.240 of tariffs where Trump, I think in the 80s, put out a full page ad, if I recall, around how unfair

00:15:53.400 trade policy was and how Japan at the time was cleaning our clock. And here we are, fast forward

00:15:58.680 with all these tariff policies. So are you surprised that we're where we are? Obviously, you have strong

00:16:05.320 opinions about the recklessness of it. But from an historic perspective, of that perspective, of that

00:16:10.620 prism, does it surprise you what he's advancing?

00:16:13.880 So let's deal with a couple things that I think are all in there. One is, it doesn't surprise me

00:16:23.480 either. He said he was going to do the tariffs. What surprised me is the erraticness, because

00:16:28.300 it was the one constant thing he said in the campaign, one constant thing, as you said, in his

00:16:32.680 public life. And it's been the most erratic, not thought through most, I mean, as opposed to kind

00:16:39.420 of the project 2025 stuff that he didn't mention. That's been unbelievably like there was a strategy

00:16:45.420 book. Here is what he did mention. And it's just every day is a new day. Look, it's the largest tax

00:16:51.600 increase in American history. Full stop. Two, it's a corrupt system, because whoever goes to Mar-a-Lago

00:16:58.980 gets a cut, gets a cut, gets a cut, as you're seeing on cards.

00:17:02.400 If I could pause on that, I think that's the most underreported part of this. The regressive

00:17:08.020 tax side is one thing. What this means for crony capitalism is another.

00:17:12.260 This is the worst of, as I said, when he first got elected, but wasn't inaugurated here. He's

00:17:18.620 going to turn the Oval Office into eBay. And it's the highest bidder. And if it ain't nailed

00:17:23.220 down, he's going to sell it. And it's crony capitals. Here is my, another P, and it's affecting

00:17:29.200 the dollar. It's affecting your 401k. But here's the other piece. 20 years ago, China

00:17:35.180 was on the rise, and America was seen as stagnating decline.

00:17:39.100 That's right.

00:17:40.180 Xi does a couple of things that is the worst economic damage any one person could do. And

00:17:46.000 he did it to China. He busts the housing bubble. He busts the municipal debt bubble. He cracks

00:17:52.340 down on the private sector. Foreign investment flees. Foreign entrepreneurs flee.

00:17:58.820 Entrepreneurs in China stop. And the economy goes into what people were referring to as

00:18:03.720 a Japanese-style deflation. And youth unemployment shoots way up. The United States is on the rise.

00:18:12.800 Money is flowing in. Unemployment is down. Manufacturing is coming back.

00:18:20.800 And China's strategy in that scenario is we're going to export our problems through manufacturing

00:18:25.860 all across the globe. Chile loses its only steel plant. South Africa is about to lose their steel

00:18:30.960 plant. Countries that align with China, Brazil, Mexico, file WTO cases against China. We're the

00:18:38.260 safe harbor. We're the adult that is the United States. What happens? We do these tariffs. They're

00:18:44.300 erratic. And then all of a sudden, China looks like a place of stability, and we look like the chaos

00:18:49.320 agent. Rather than China being isolated and the world aligning with the United States,

00:18:53.020 the United States gets isolated. And we have turned... We had China. And they knew it. They

00:18:59.620 said it. This doesn't require interpretation. China said, you're isolating us. We took advantage

00:19:06.080 of China's on goal. They did to themselves economically through their mercantilism what

00:19:11.820 their wolf warrior was on the diplomatic front. And we used it strategically better than we actually

00:19:18.120 assumed we could do. And we just committed the worst on goal. And snapping the... Literally ripping the

00:19:26.680 victory from the jaws of defeat. And now we're the isolated party. And what's worse, and let me say this

00:19:32.360 as a father with two children, uh, uh, one full time in the other, uh, reserve enlisted in the armed forces.

00:19:41.080 1979, governor, was the first time the United States deployed a sanction that was on Iran,

00:19:49.480 and used its economic power and the power of the dollar. So we didn't have to do something kinetic

00:19:56.280 militarily. We refined this and really become experts going through the war on terror.

00:20:02.600 And we had built up the capacity. One of the things that China and Russia hated was the United States

00:20:09.800 through the dollar could economically punish you in a way that it didn't have to require the

00:20:16.760 US military to do it, but we could use our economic power and our power of our dollar.

00:20:21.640 We have destroyed, destroyed, not inhibited. One of the most important tools we have developed over 50

00:20:31.000 years to punish an adversary without putting men and women in the United States uniform at risk.

00:20:37.640 This is, as my grandfather would say, a shanda. It's a crime committed against ourselves.

00:20:44.920 It is ridiculous. Now, most importantly, the American people, I give them a lot of credit.

00:20:51.240 It took them... They didn't go to Harvard. They didn't go to Columbia.

00:20:54.600 They didn't go to... They didn't even get a four-year degree, most of them.

00:20:57.880 They knew that a tariff was a tax on day one, and they knew they were going to get hosed.

00:21:02.840 That's right.

00:21:03.400 Figured it out without it going to business school. We knew it up front. Rejected it.

00:21:08.440 And he is showing the political peril of his own position.

00:21:12.200 Yeah, we completely betrayed them, right? I mean, by definition, day one,

00:21:16.360 bringing down prices. Number one promise.

00:21:19.160 Look, we have our own problem as Democrats. We'll get to that in the rest of this podcast.

00:21:23.480 But the one thing you can say about Donald Trump, he'll betray you and stab you in the back.

00:21:27.640 And he's doing it all. And the American people are going to punish the Republicans for this.

00:21:31.560 And you saw it in the elections.

00:21:32.760 I'm Israel Gutierrez, and I'm hosting a new podcast, Dub Dynasty. The story of how the

00:21:41.320 Golden State Warriors have dominated the NBA for over a decade.

00:21:45.400 The Golden State Warriors, once again, are NBA champions.

00:21:50.280 From the building of the core that included Clay Thompson and Draymond Green,

00:21:54.360 to one of the boldest coaching decisions in the history of the sport.

00:21:58.200 I just felt like the biggest thing was to earn the trust of the players and let the players know

00:22:02.760 that we were here to try to help them take the next step, not tear anything down.

00:22:06.760 Today, the Warriors dynasty remains alive, in large part because of a scrawny six-foot-two hooper

00:22:13.000 who everyone seems to love.

00:22:14.600 For what Steph has done for the game, he's certainly on that like Mount Rushmore for guys that have changed it.

00:22:19.720 Come revisit this magical Warriors ride. This is Dub Dynasty.

00:22:24.360 The Dub's dynasty is still very much alive.

00:22:28.760 Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:22:42.920 The number one hit true crime podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, the Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:22:49.480 Our first two series introduce you to an incredible gang of women who teamed up to fight injustice,

00:22:56.760 showing just how powerful sisterly solidarity can be.

00:23:00.840 We're keeping this mission alive with The Girlfriends Spotlight.

00:23:05.000 Each week, a different woman sits down with me, Anna Sinfield,

00:23:08.440 to share their incredible story of triumph over adversity.

00:23:12.760 Like Luanne, who was raised in a secretive religious community.

00:23:16.200 Do I want my freedom, or do I want my family?

00:23:19.640 And found a way to escape.

00:23:21.240 When she said, you know you can leave, right? It was a lightbulb.

00:23:25.400 And now helps other women get out too.

00:23:27.840 I loved my girls. I still love my girls.

00:23:30.440 So come and join our girl gang.

00:23:34.820 Listen to The Girlfriends Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:23:41.380 I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, you.

00:23:46.200 We ready to fight? I'm ready to fight.

00:23:50.760 Is that what, I thought it was, oh, this is fighting words.

00:23:53.900 Okay, I'll put the hammer back.

00:23:58.040 Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best-selling author with the second most banned book in America.

00:24:04.060 Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back.

00:24:08.020 And that's what we are doing on Fighting Words.

00:24:12.640 We're not going to let anyone silence us.

00:24:14.760 That's the reason why they're banning books like yours, George.

00:24:17.220 That's the reason why they're trying to stop the teaching of Black history or queer history,

00:24:21.480 any history that challenges the whitewashed norm.

00:24:24.460 Or put us in a box.

00:24:26.360 Black people have never, ever depended on the so-called mainstream to support us.

00:24:32.160 That's why we are great.

00:24:33.600 We are the greatest culture makers in world history.

00:24:37.020 Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:24:43.420 Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia.

00:24:51.860 I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math & Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing.

00:24:57.860 I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries,

00:25:03.260 to hear how they reach the top of their fields,

00:25:05.340 and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use.

00:25:08.200 I'll be joined by innovative leaders like Chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty, Durang Amin.

00:25:14.020 The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.

00:25:19.340 I'm sitting down with legendary singer-songwriter and philanthropist, Jewel.

00:25:23.100 I wanted a way to do something that I loved for the rest of my life.

00:25:27.220 We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times,

00:25:31.760 like Stéphane Bancel, CEO of Moderna.

00:25:34.420 It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy

00:25:39.900 and to do what you think is the right thing for the world.

00:25:42.760 Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math,

00:25:46.500 and the ever-important creative spark, the magic.

00:25:49.520 Listen to Math & Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing,

00:25:52.580 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:25:57.120 My name is Brendan Patrick-Hughes, host of Divine Intervention.

00:26:00.520 This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild-haired priests

00:26:05.580 trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell-bent effort to sabotage a war.

00:26:11.800 J. Edgar Hoover was furious.

00:26:14.380 Somebody violated the FBI, and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees.

00:26:20.720 The FBI went around to all their neighbors and said to them,

00:26:23.940 do you think these people are good Americans?

00:26:25.720 It's got heists, tragedy, a trial of the century,

00:26:29.920 and the goddamnedest love story you've ever heard.

00:26:33.280 I picked up the phone, and my thought was,

00:26:35.980 this is the most important phone call I'll ever make in my life.

00:26:39.180 I couldn't believe it.

00:26:40.680 I mean, Brendan, it was Divine Intervention.

00:26:45.220 Listen to Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app,

00:26:49.140 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:26:55.720 So let me, and I definitely look forward to talking about the political implications,

00:27:04.340 but let's just talk about the practical.

00:27:06.040 I mean, because you've, I mean, you've experienced firsthand, up close,

00:27:12.400 our efforts, particularly during the Biden administration.

00:27:16.700 I really applaud those efforts, particularly with Japan and Korea,

00:27:19.340 in relationship to China.

00:27:21.520 You were very vocal, very vocal, more than any ambassador,

00:27:25.580 which took some courage, I thought, against China.

00:27:29.400 You've seen this sort of geopolitical shuffle.

00:27:32.360 I mean, what are they saying?

00:27:34.920 You know, Trump's now saying we're respected around the world.

00:27:38.440 What are they saying in the halls with our allies?

00:27:41.280 I mean, how consequential is this to trust,

00:27:44.280 and how long is this wound going to fester?

00:27:46.920 Well, I would say to you, Governor, first of all,

00:27:49.720 in 80 days, he's destroyed 80 years of credibility in the United States.

00:27:53.960 A big hit on our credibility.

00:27:56.420 You can look at the Indo-Pacific, you can look at the Middle East,

00:27:58.620 you can look at Europe, you can look at Africa.

00:28:01.220 No one region is more, outweighs another.

00:28:04.880 The most important thing post-Donald Trump

00:28:07.100 is somehow restoring trust and credibility to the United States' work.

00:28:11.000 People are ridiculing the United States.

00:28:13.560 I said, you know, just in word, but also in deed.

00:28:16.400 I work tirelessly, and I give the president

00:28:20.200 and the National Security Apparatus credit

00:28:23.320 with my colleague in South Korea

00:28:25.900 in the historic coming together at Camp David

00:28:30.240 between the president, the president of South Korea,

00:28:33.100 and the prime minister of Japan.

00:28:34.060 We all three countries have a complicated history.

00:28:38.120 We came together, saw the future as more important than the past,

00:28:42.480 and embraced it and shaped it.

00:28:45.780 Two weeks ago,

00:28:47.380 China brought together the foreign ministers of Korea and Japan with them.

00:28:52.740 They announced an economic partnership

00:28:54.340 that the ground was developed.

00:28:56.860 Korea, that was essential to the export controls

00:28:59.440 against the semiconductor industry in China.

00:29:01.380 Samsung, the shining corporate semiconductor company in Korea,

00:29:08.340 announced an agreement with a Chinese company.

00:29:12.160 Now, nobody's respecting the United States.

00:29:15.360 Nobody's trusting the United States.

00:29:17.140 They're looking out for their own self-interest.

00:29:19.020 That meeting between China, Korea, and Japan

00:29:22.360 never would have happened

00:29:23.760 on the kind of level it happened

00:29:25.940 with the outgrowth that happened

00:29:27.420 had we not committed and isolated ourselves

00:29:30.980 with a tariff policy

00:29:31.960 that hit ally and adversary with equal force.

00:29:37.020 It's a non-goal.

00:29:38.400 There's no other way to describe it.

00:29:39.620 Would you extend,

00:29:40.680 I mean, obviously there's a lot of talk now in South Korea

00:29:42.800 about the prospect of a Korean peninsula

00:29:46.240 where everyone is a nuclear power.

00:29:48.840 Obviously, there's now renewed conversations,

00:29:51.800 which is remarkable to me.

00:29:53.440 You would understand it better than anyone in Japan even.

00:29:56.220 I mean, do you think that's an outgrowth of this moment,

00:29:59.520 or is that a more complicated question

00:30:01.520 that may predate the recklessness

00:30:04.280 of Trump's tariff announcements?

00:30:05.660 So, one is, everybody used to say,

00:30:10.560 oh, about non-proliferation,

00:30:12.040 it was expensive what we did.

00:30:13.720 You're about to get sticker shock on proliferation.

00:30:16.640 You're here.

00:30:17.300 We spent a year and a half,

00:30:19.260 I was more on the sidelines on this one,

00:30:21.200 of convincing Korea not to go nuclear,

00:30:23.480 but to abide with the United States

00:30:24.700 in a whole process of it.

00:30:26.020 So, fast forward,

00:30:28.760 what happens is,

00:30:30.580 I think Korea's going to look at the United States

00:30:32.420 as an untrusted ally,

00:30:34.240 and they're going to make a decision

00:30:36.140 with North Korea's possession of nuclear capacity,

00:30:38.580 China's capacity,

00:30:40.560 they're going to go nuclear,

00:30:41.520 and they're not going to put their faith

00:30:42.560 in the United States anymore.

00:30:45.060 And if Korea does it,

00:30:46.940 Japan will do it.

00:30:47.560 So, just close your eyes.

00:30:48.500 Pakistan, India, China, North Korea,

00:30:52.680 South Korea, and Japan,

00:30:54.440 all in that region will be nuclear.

00:30:56.400 What could go wrong?

00:30:58.200 It's insane.

00:30:59.880 I want to go double back on something I skipped,

00:31:01.740 and I want to say something about the tariffs we had asked,

00:31:04.180 if I could, Governor.

00:31:06.200 We're treating textiles, toys,

00:31:08.860 and technology as equal.

00:31:13.560 And I don't,

00:31:14.620 the idea that we're going to see technology

00:31:17.340 are semiconductors,

00:31:18.620 and I'm not saying they're more,

00:31:19.620 but they are slightly more valuable

00:31:21.320 than a t-shirt

00:31:22.440 from our economic capacity and strength.

00:31:25.740 So, if you're going to have a policy

00:31:27.460 on making sure that America's own economy

00:31:30.960 is secure and slightly more self-sufficient

00:31:33.480 than where it was,

00:31:34.940 you don't treat toys manufactured in China,

00:31:38.880 textiles manufactured in Southeast Asia,

00:31:41.560 and technology like semiconductors

00:31:43.800 as if they're equal economic capacity.

00:31:46.640 And lastly,

00:31:48.020 what's also lost in this space,

00:31:49.880 almost 45% of all imports

00:31:52.760 into the United States

00:31:53.620 are things that go into

00:31:55.860 our own manufacturing base.

00:31:58.600 So,

00:31:59.300 we're going to affect manufacturing,

00:32:01.520 but not the way that Donald Trump said.

00:32:04.020 It will have an impact on manufacturing.

00:32:06.620 It will actually lead to unemployment

00:32:09.260 in the manufacturing.

00:32:11.180 I don't know if you know this,

00:32:12.420 and I'm sure you do,

00:32:13.180 because you have your own industrial base

00:32:14.640 in California.

00:32:16.860 There's 500,000 manufacturing jobs today

00:32:19.300 with the help wanted signed around it.

00:32:22.220 Yep.

00:32:23.360 We're short workers.

00:32:24.980 You know this,

00:32:25.840 and I know this is going around.

00:32:27.300 I used to have CEOs come through here.

00:32:29.040 I talked to them in this.

00:32:30.600 Today,

00:32:31.340 you do too.

00:32:33.020 Biggest item,

00:32:34.240 besides this regulation,

00:32:36.420 or that,

00:32:36.820 that's the biggest item,

00:32:38.480 a workforce that they can't find.

00:32:40.940 That's right.

00:32:41.840 So,

00:32:42.100 if we started at home,

00:32:43.060 we would be,

00:32:43.720 actually,

00:32:44.000 there's 500,000 manufacturing jobs.

00:32:46.340 Today,

00:32:46.700 we could have done something about it

00:32:47.860 before we hit the terror of chaos.

00:32:49.800 No,

00:32:50.020 look,

00:32:50.420 I appreciate it.

00:32:51.100 Also,

00:32:51.560 speaking of kids,

00:32:52.420 I've got four kids,

00:32:53.460 and they still love toys.

00:32:55.080 I think 80% of the toys

00:32:56.400 under the Christmas tree

00:32:57.460 come from China.

00:32:58.800 They've doubled the cost of that.

00:33:01.020 Obviously,

00:33:01.680 if you've got your 401k,

00:33:03.780 as you said earlier,

00:33:04.640 and I think the focus on 401k

00:33:06.260 more than the markets,

00:33:07.360 I think even Carville brought that up

00:33:08.800 in a recent op-ed.

00:33:10.280 I thought it was very wise

00:33:11.280 and connects with people

00:33:12.880 in a much more personal way.

00:33:15.680 But I want to highlight

00:33:16.780 what you just said.

00:33:17.540 California is the biggest

00:33:18.320 manufacturing state in America.

00:33:19.600 People forget that.

00:33:20.760 California is number one

00:33:21.700 in two-way trade,

00:33:22.740 number one in direct foreign investment,

00:33:24.140 and number one manufacturing state

00:33:26.320 in America.

00:33:27.240 40% of the goods movements

00:33:28.380 in this country

00:33:29.200 come through.

00:33:29.980 Two ports of entry

00:33:31.540 in California,

00:33:32.940 about 50% of that

00:33:33.940 from China itself.

00:33:35.240 No state has more to lose,

00:33:36.500 more to gain

00:33:37.060 as it relates to ag,

00:33:38.360 as it relates to all

00:33:39.240 of these industries

00:33:39.920 and tech,

00:33:40.820 as you noted,

00:33:42.180 AI, etc.

00:33:43.260 So that's, by the way,

00:33:44.520 why we just filed a lawsuit

00:33:45.560 against the Trump administration.

00:33:46.760 We did it on,

00:33:47.820 I think,

00:33:48.020 very sound grounds.

00:33:49.640 And it's an interesting lawsuit

00:33:51.760 for many different reasons.

00:33:53.660 But we've got to push back

00:33:55.240 much more aggressively

00:33:56.200 on the consequences of this.

00:33:57.740 Let me say this

00:33:58.460 without trying to go

00:33:59.260 into a witness protection plan.

00:34:02.020 Which, by the way,

00:34:03.280 is hyperbole,

00:34:04.840 but not necessarily

00:34:05.980 in this day and age.

00:34:07.600 So I appreciate the caveat.

00:34:09.600 Yeah.

00:34:10.220 Do you know a lawyer?

00:34:11.400 Before I say it?

00:34:11.820 By the way,

00:34:12.940 none at Skatt & Arbs,

00:34:14.700 none at Paul Weiss,

00:34:16.100 none at all these firms

00:34:17.060 that have capitulated.

00:34:18.220 You brought that up at the top.

00:34:19.980 Here's the thing,

00:34:21.500 is the analysis

00:34:23.820 that we have a problem

00:34:27.500 where America

00:34:28.500 did not invest in America

00:34:30.600 or Americans.

00:34:32.000 And it led to our

00:34:33.520 economic independence

00:34:35.120 being adversely,

00:34:37.920 not only affected,

00:34:39.320 but it also affected

00:34:41.200 our civic life

00:34:42.360 because people lost confidence

00:34:43.680 in America by Americans.

00:34:45.000 That is not

00:34:46.580 a wrong analysis.

00:34:49.380 Going about

00:34:50.260 that tariffs

00:34:51.180 are the most beautiful word

00:34:52.480 in the English language

00:34:53.640 and hitting everything

00:34:55.100 ally and adversary

00:34:56.560 the same,

00:34:57.520 not thinking it

00:34:58.460 through strategically,

00:34:59.820 not understanding

00:35:00.560 the difference

00:35:01.020 between toys

00:35:01.840 and technology

00:35:03.100 from an economic standpoint,

00:35:05.140 is actually

00:35:07.000 the cure is worse

00:35:08.520 than the illness

00:35:09.800 and it's going to be,

00:35:11.720 affect people's

00:35:12.740 family budgets,

00:35:13.840 it's going to affect

00:35:14.160 their employment,

00:35:14.840 it's going to affect

00:35:15.240 a whole host of things

00:35:16.480 and their economic security,

00:35:18.920 their retirement security,

00:35:19.860 their education

00:35:20.380 for their children.

00:35:21.540 And so to me,

00:35:22.960 your first question

00:35:25.200 kind of was,

00:35:26.140 I get the analysis

00:35:28.300 of what ails America

00:35:30.880 or one of the things

00:35:31.600 that ails America.

00:35:32.840 It's not wrong.

00:35:33.900 But like all things

00:35:37.620 Trump,

00:35:39.020 he makes the problem

00:35:40.420 much more severe

00:35:41.380 than addressing.

00:35:42.640 There you go.

00:35:43.520 Yep.

00:35:44.640 In every aspect.

00:35:46.800 Take the academic institutions.

00:35:48.520 Were there things

00:35:49.000 that they had done

00:35:49.560 over the years

00:35:50.060 that got them off kilter?

00:35:51.920 A hundred percent.

00:35:53.540 But using anti-Semitism

00:35:55.040 to execute

00:35:56.400 a political strategy

00:35:57.540 to silence

00:35:58.700 universities and academics?

00:36:01.920 No.

00:36:03.060 That's exactly right.

00:36:03.900 And so I know

00:36:04.900 I'm with you

00:36:05.560 and what you're saying

00:36:06.140 is you're not

00:36:06.620 an anti-tariff absolutist.

00:36:08.680 You believe

00:36:09.420 in targeted tariffs

00:36:10.380 and along the lines of...

00:36:11.760 No, I didn't say that.

00:36:12.640 Actually,

00:36:13.600 no, I want to speak...

00:36:15.380 But you haven't been

00:36:17.640 opposed to tariffs

00:36:18.500 in the past.

00:36:19.280 I mean,

00:36:19.560 the Biden administration

00:36:21.120 tripled them

00:36:22.180 on Chinese steel

00:36:23.580 and aluminum.

00:36:24.600 Here's my thing is,

00:36:26.200 if we've got a problem,

00:36:27.780 what does it take

00:36:28.900 to address

00:36:31.500 and build

00:36:32.100 and build

00:36:32.120 an industry?

00:36:32.900 Now, look,

00:36:33.600 my analysis

00:36:34.220 going back

00:36:34.860 then as ambassador,

00:36:37.000 China's the one

00:36:37.600 that came up

00:36:38.040 with self-sufficiency

00:36:38.820 as an economic model.

00:36:41.580 That's why

00:36:42.120 they're exporting

00:36:42.960 their mercantilism

00:36:43.740 and crushing

00:36:44.160 all these countries

00:36:44.900 around the world.

00:36:46.160 They've decided

00:36:46.820 how to isolate

00:36:47.540 themselves from the world

00:36:48.440 rather than

00:36:48.960 interact with the world.

00:36:50.360 And it's only

00:36:50.760 on China's terms.

00:36:53.080 If you want

00:36:53.920 to apply a tariff,

00:36:55.100 my view is,

00:36:55.640 okay,

00:36:55.740 what are the things

00:36:56.420 that we are going

00:36:57.180 to do

00:36:57.760 that tariff

00:36:59.220 give us

00:36:59.600 a window

00:37:00.220 of time?

00:37:01.560 What are our investments?

00:37:02.660 What's our training?

00:37:03.480 What are we going

00:37:03.840 to do

00:37:04.100 from a research

00:37:04.760 standpoint

00:37:05.240 in semiconductors,

00:37:07.680 in steel,

00:37:09.240 or pick your industry?

00:37:10.880 I'm not for tariffs.

00:37:13.760 They are a tool

00:37:15.080 in a toolbox,

00:37:16.260 but tell me

00:37:16.720 what we're doing

00:37:17.180 with all the tools

00:37:17.920 in the toolbox

00:37:18.440 so you have

00:37:19.280 an integrated,

00:37:20.000 cohesive,

00:37:21.020 comprehensive strategy.

00:37:22.360 If we don't train

00:37:23.040 the workers

00:37:23.440 for the 500,000 jobs,

00:37:24.600 I don't care

00:37:24.860 what tariffs you do.

00:37:26.260 Yeah.

00:37:27.040 Okay?

00:37:27.500 And if you're not

00:37:28.160 going to fund

00:37:28.920 some research

00:37:29.680 that's,

00:37:30.160 take a look

00:37:30.820 of,

00:37:31.400 you know,

00:37:31.660 I'll just say this,

00:37:33.040 fracking

00:37:33.440 as a technology

00:37:34.360 came out

00:37:34.820 of our universities.

00:37:37.060 Look,

00:37:37.560 we're now,

00:37:37.960 we went from

00:37:38.380 a $400 billion

00:37:39.260 import

00:37:40.180 to a $45 billion

00:37:41.360 export.

00:37:42.400 That's a big swing.

00:37:43.820 Tell me what we're

00:37:44.440 going to,

00:37:44.700 now people are

00:37:45.360 thinking of using

00:37:45.880 that hydraulic

00:37:46.480 technology

00:37:47.140 to do geothermal.

00:37:49.900 Tell me

00:37:50.460 what we're doing,

00:37:51.700 what the end line

00:37:52.940 and what are all

00:37:53.420 the pieces

00:37:53.920 that fit into that.

00:37:55.520 We're just going

00:37:56.000 by gut instincts

00:37:56.700 of one guy

00:37:57.380 who failed

00:37:58.280 seven businesses.

00:37:59.160 So what you're

00:38:01.060 saying,

00:38:01.360 I mean,

00:38:01.800 and to be

00:38:02.960 more clear

00:38:03.940 than the basis

00:38:05.540 of that reaction,

00:38:07.220 targeted tariffs

00:38:08.400 with an industrial

00:38:09.440 policy,

00:38:10.100 with a policy

00:38:10.700 to back it up,

00:38:11.940 with a rationale

00:38:12.940 to use it

00:38:14.220 as a tool

00:38:15.020 for strategic

00:38:16.860 national security

00:38:17.680 issues

00:38:18.100 or for

00:38:18.900 legitimate questions

00:38:20.160 around imbalance

00:38:20.880 of trade

00:38:21.360 or unfair practices.

00:38:22.040 There are people

00:38:22.580 like the Secretary

00:38:23.220 of Commerce

00:38:23.620 and the President

00:38:24.240 who believe

00:38:25.140 tariffs are the

00:38:25.980 economic toolbox.

00:38:27.480 They're not.

00:38:28.500 They are a tool

00:38:29.300 in the toolbox,

00:38:30.240 but you tell me

00:38:30.780 each sector,

00:38:31.700 what is the strategy,

00:38:32.600 what are we going

00:38:32.960 to do for training,

00:38:33.660 what are we going

00:38:33.960 to do for infrastructure,

00:38:34.720 what are we doing

00:38:35.080 for research and development,

00:38:36.420 how are we going

00:38:36.840 to take certain

00:38:37.460 U.S. companies

00:38:38.660 and build them up

00:38:39.420 or invite foreign

00:38:40.280 investors to build

00:38:41.420 those up.

00:38:42.740 And I'll give you

00:38:43.240 an example.

00:38:44.340 Take the shipbuilding

00:38:45.860 industry.

00:38:46.400 Japan and Korea

00:38:49.660 are unbelievably

00:38:50.920 capable of coming

00:38:52.260 in and investing

00:38:52.880 and helping build

00:38:53.560 that domestic industry

00:38:54.480 in the United States.

00:38:55.820 Are they banned?

00:38:57.300 Are they part of that?

00:38:58.980 Are they allies

00:38:59.560 that we're going

00:39:00.000 to invite in

00:39:00.560 to help us

00:39:01.060 jumpstart something

00:39:01.920 that we've lost

00:39:03.140 our muscle memory on?

00:39:05.140 That's a strategy.

00:39:07.480 What it is

00:39:08.260 we're going to do?

00:39:09.480 What's the roadmap

00:39:10.200 here so everybody

00:39:10.980 knows how to contribute

00:39:11.820 and knows what

00:39:12.340 the goal line is

00:39:13.180 or what the end point is?

00:39:17.400 I'm Israel Gutierrez

00:39:18.940 and I'm hosting

00:39:19.740 a new podcast,

00:39:21.020 Dub Dynasty,

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00:40:07.420 is still very much alive.

00:40:10.520 Listen to Dub Dynasty

00:40:11.560 on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:40:21.220 My name is

00:40:22.080 Brendan Patrick-Hughes,

00:40:23.240 host of Divine Intervention.

00:40:25.300 This is a story

00:40:26.240 about radical nuns

00:40:27.440 in combat boots

00:40:28.340 and wild-haired priests

00:40:29.780 trading blows

00:40:30.920 with J. Edgar Hoover

00:40:32.180 in a hell-bent effort

00:40:33.840 to sabotage a war.

00:40:35.840 J. Edgar Hoover

00:40:36.840 was furious.

00:40:38.580 Somebody violated

00:40:39.980 the FBI

00:40:41.000 and he wanted to

00:40:42.660 bring the Catholic

00:40:43.640 left to its knees.

00:40:44.940 The FBI went around

00:40:45.940 to all their neighbors

00:40:46.900 and said to them,

00:40:48.180 do you think these people

00:40:49.060 are good Americans?

00:40:50.380 It's got heists,

00:40:51.580 tragedy,

00:40:52.420 a trial of the century,

00:40:54.120 and the goddamnedest

00:40:55.240 love story

00:40:55.860 you've ever heard.

00:40:57.220 I picked up the phone

00:40:58.840 and my thought was,

00:41:00.140 this is the most

00:41:00.820 important phone call

00:41:01.820 I'll ever make

00:41:02.720 in my life.

00:41:03.400 I couldn't believe it.

00:41:04.540 I mean, Brendan,

00:41:05.960 it was Divine Intervention.

00:41:09.460 Listen to Divine Intervention

00:41:11.500 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:41:13.340 Apple Podcasts,

00:41:14.360 or wherever you get

00:41:15.440 your podcasts.

00:41:21.420 Hi, I'm Bob Pittman,

00:41:22.900 Chairman and CEO

00:41:23.760 of iHeartMedia.

00:41:25.000 I'm excited to introduce

00:41:26.060 a brand new season

00:41:27.060 of my podcast,

00:41:28.140 Math and Magic,

00:41:29.040 Stories from the Frontiers

00:41:30.120 of Marketing.

00:41:31.020 I'm having conversations

00:41:32.280 with some interesting folks

00:41:33.840 across a wide range

00:41:35.360 of industries

00:41:35.940 to hear how they reach

00:41:37.280 the top of their fields

00:41:38.180 and the lessons they learned

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00:41:41.640 I'll be joined

00:41:42.380 by innovative leaders

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00:41:44.760 of Elf Beauty,

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00:42:00.380 We're also hearing

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00:42:08.020 It becomes a human decision

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00:42:27.160 Apple Podcasts,

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00:42:29.360 your podcasts.

00:42:29.860 Are we ready to fight?

00:42:32.320 I'm ready to fight.

00:42:33.140 Is that what I thought

00:42:34.660 it was?

00:42:34.920 Oh, this is fighting words.

00:42:36.220 Okay.

00:42:36.820 I'll put the hammer back.

00:42:40.320 Hi, I'm George M. Johnson,

00:42:42.440 a best-selling author

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00:42:48.820 to fight back.

00:42:50.480 And that's what we're doing

00:42:51.680 on Fighting Words.

00:42:54.880 We're not going to let

00:42:55.880 anyone silence us?

00:42:57.080 That's the reason why

00:42:57.800 they're banning books

00:42:58.540 like yours, George.

00:42:59.400 That's the reason why

00:43:00.560 they're trying to stop

00:43:01.840 the teaching of Black history,

00:43:03.100 of queer history,

00:43:03.800 any history that challenges

00:43:04.860 the whitewashed norm.

00:43:06.800 Or put us in a box.

00:43:08.680 Black people have never,

00:43:09.820 ever depended on

00:43:11.300 the so-called mainstream

00:43:13.080 to support us.

00:43:14.540 That's why we are great.

00:43:15.920 We are the greatest

00:43:16.600 culture makers

00:43:17.540 in world history.

00:43:20.500 Listen to Fighting Words

00:43:21.740 on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:44:35.260 This is an opportunity

00:44:44.560 to pivot a little bit,

00:44:45.940 but pivot with a little bit

00:44:47.340 of self-reflection.

00:44:48.520 And one of the things

00:44:48.900 I've really appreciated about...

00:44:49.900 Oh, that's going to be hard

00:44:50.660 for an Emmanuel.

00:44:51.720 That's, well, I don't know.

00:44:52.660 You've been pretty...

00:44:53.520 I was about to compliment you

00:44:55.100 as an Emmanuel.

00:44:56.140 I think you're doing self-reflection

00:44:57.400 on the podcast too.

00:44:58.760 Yeah, no, I mean,

00:44:59.520 we could get in a deeper conversation.

00:45:02.100 Yeah, I think all two

00:45:03.680 of your two other brothers...

00:45:05.020 My brother too?

00:45:05.940 Yeah, we could talk about mom as well.

00:45:08.000 You already think

00:45:08.460 you brought up the family

00:45:09.800 in the context of...

00:45:10.920 What was the word you used?

00:45:12.360 It wasn't mishigash.

00:45:13.480 What was it?

00:45:13.900 No, shanda.

00:45:14.700 It's a sin.

00:45:15.340 It's an embarrassment.

00:45:16.780 It's a shanda.

00:45:17.620 I like it.

00:45:18.200 I'm going to steal that.

00:45:19.260 It's Yiddish.

00:45:20.000 It's half sin, half comparison.

00:45:22.000 It's good.

00:45:23.040 It fits the moment.

00:45:24.420 But let me talk about

00:45:25.160 a different moment.

00:45:25.940 I mean, you were part of it.

00:45:27.380 And frankly, I think all of us were.

00:45:28.660 A lot of us were parroting it

00:45:29.760 to be Canada.

00:45:30.840 You know, as I sort of

00:45:31.620 a Clinton Democrat

00:45:32.420 back in the day,

00:45:33.720 NAFTA, the WTO,

00:45:35.680 you know, people talk a lot

00:45:36.920 about the WTO

00:45:37.720 sort of as a point

00:45:38.780 of emphasis

00:45:40.520 that sort of led to this point,

00:45:42.000 not just an op-ed in 1980s

00:45:44.180 or an ad by Trump

00:45:46.100 as it relates to

00:45:46.820 his positions on trade.

00:45:49.560 You know, what do you make

00:45:50.580 of the Democratic Party

00:45:52.080 and our culpability

00:45:53.360 for this moment

00:45:54.340 and the hollowing out

00:45:55.120 of our industrial base

00:45:56.100 and the need to jumpstart?

00:45:57.620 I mean, just take

00:45:58.700 their arguments,

00:45:59.460 the Bannon arguments.

00:46:00.700 Take the arguments

00:46:01.340 of Trump

00:46:01.760 and the acolytes around him

00:46:03.020 that it's time

00:46:04.300 to re-industrialize.

00:46:05.400 It's time

00:46:05.820 to bring those

00:46:06.980 supply chains home.

00:46:07.940 It's time

00:46:08.420 to really start focusing,

00:46:11.140 yes, dare I say it,

00:46:12.040 on America first, Rom.

00:46:13.680 No, look, I don't.

00:46:15.880 So I agree with that

00:46:17.820 on both America

00:46:18.980 and Americans first

00:46:20.500 as a person who

00:46:22.540 first city

00:46:23.860 to ever create

00:46:24.440 free community college

00:46:25.580 and make sure high school

00:46:26.820 wasn't the end point

00:46:27.600 of a public commitment

00:46:28.400 to education.

00:46:30.120 And so, Governor,

00:46:32.060 here's what I would say

00:46:33.080 and I'll talk to both

00:46:34.360 NAFTA and WTO,

00:46:37.260 meaning China

00:46:38.840 getting to WTO,

00:46:40.140 and they're slightly different

00:46:42.020 but of single spirit.

00:46:44.240 The mistake,

00:46:45.500 it's a mistake

00:46:46.160 and we owe

00:46:46.740 an apology to the American people,

00:46:48.560 is we allowed

00:46:49.380 La Crosse, Wisconsin,

00:46:51.360 Peoria, Illinois,

00:46:52.440 Youngstown, Ohio,

00:46:53.400 Saginaw, Michigan

00:46:55.060 or Battle Creek, Michigan

00:46:56.320 or Terre Haute, Indiana

00:46:58.140 to navigate

00:46:59.620 the world market

00:47:01.320 on their own

00:47:01.980 against China

00:47:03.140 and much bigger forces.

00:47:04.800 We didn't,

00:47:06.000 if you go back to NAFTA,

00:47:07.720 President Clinton

00:47:08.200 had proposed

00:47:08.720 billions and billions

00:47:09.780 of dollars of investment

00:47:10.840 that was turned down

00:47:12.140 by Congress.

00:47:14.220 It ended up

00:47:15.000 with like a job

00:47:16.020 training program,

00:47:16.840 like a voucher

00:47:17.420 and basically said,

00:47:18.180 here,

00:47:18.740 you're on your own.

00:47:19.360 And the truth is,

00:47:20.820 you and I

00:47:21.420 and our kids,

00:47:22.660 we're going to get

00:47:23.400 the rewards

00:47:24.080 of the system

00:47:24.780 that we've built.

00:47:25.840 But that's not true

00:47:26.480 for everybody.

00:47:28.260 The American dream

00:47:29.220 has not,

00:47:30.900 has been

00:47:31.340 unaffordable

00:47:32.580 and inaccessible

00:47:34.140 every year

00:47:34.860 after every year

00:47:35.680 and it's down now

00:47:36.720 to about 10%

00:47:37.480 of the children

00:47:37.960 of American families

00:47:39.000 have access.

00:47:40.120 All American people want

00:47:41.100 is a simple thing,

00:47:41.740 a shot at the American dream

00:47:42.720 and they got the shot

00:47:43.700 and we left communities

00:47:45.700 unprotected

00:47:47.920 against China.

00:47:49.360 Peoria is not set up

00:47:50.660 and the people

00:47:51.420 who live in Peoria

00:47:51.900 to fight China

00:47:52.740 on their own.

00:47:54.200 And that's just

00:47:54.640 an observation,

00:47:55.740 that's just a fact.

00:47:57.380 And while trade

00:47:58.900 had benefits,

00:48:00.960 the benefits

00:48:01.900 were not equally shared

00:48:02.840 and the risk

00:48:03.480 was not equally shared.

00:48:04.580 And that's a fact

00:48:05.840 and for too long

00:48:06.900 it was ignored

00:48:08.180 as a scream

00:48:09.120 and a yell.

00:48:10.220 And you can explain

00:48:10.880 something of Donald Trump

00:48:11.800 in that.

00:48:12.880 Now,

00:48:13.400 on WTO,

00:48:15.260 same analysis

00:48:16.640 except for I would say

00:48:18.080 one caveat.

00:48:19.360 when China

00:48:22.020 was brought in

00:48:22.720 in the same way

00:48:24.180 that Russia

00:48:24.520 was brought into NATO

00:48:25.820 and Russia

00:48:26.380 was brought into the G7,

00:48:28.440 there was a theory

00:48:29.160 of the case

00:48:29.600 and it's kind of

00:48:30.280 a 60-40 issue.

00:48:32.280 It's better to have them

00:48:33.240 in the tent

00:48:33.880 pissing out

00:48:34.620 than outside the tent

00:48:35.740 pissing in

00:48:36.180 to use an LBJ term.

00:48:37.960 you know this

00:48:41.880 as a governor,

00:48:42.280 I know this

00:48:42.620 as a mayor,

00:48:43.000 as a chief of staff.

00:48:43.740 Nothing's 100 to zero.

00:48:45.560 That's what you have AI for.

00:48:47.160 These are judgment calls.

00:48:48.540 It was better to think

00:48:49.860 that you can make China

00:48:50.780 and invest it

00:48:51.620 in the system we have.

00:48:53.060 Yeah.

00:48:53.800 By 2012,

00:48:56.440 when Xi becomes

00:48:57.360 president of China,

00:48:59.100 it's very clear

00:49:00.280 they go from

00:49:00.860 strategic competitor

00:49:01.820 to strategic adversaries.

00:49:03.880 Much different.

00:49:05.340 It was actually

00:49:05.940 also very clear

00:49:06.860 and I say this

00:49:07.300 as a congressman

00:49:07.800 representing many companies

00:49:08.880 as chief of staff

00:49:09.880 dealing with CEOs.

00:49:11.840 China's

00:49:12.500 intellectual property theft

00:49:14.260 and economic espionage

00:49:15.440 is core

00:49:15.980 to the business model

00:49:16.740 in a way that

00:49:17.640 patents

00:49:18.300 and rule of law

00:49:19.020 are core to ours.

00:49:19.900 And in 2012,

00:49:23.060 we held on

00:49:23.860 strategic competitor

00:49:25.100 ignoring things

00:49:26.200 that we knew

00:49:26.600 were happening

00:49:27.100 and they went

00:49:29.020 to strategic adversary

00:49:30.100 and core to their idea.

00:49:31.960 You have Google

00:49:32.540 based in California.

00:49:33.780 Only one country

00:49:34.720 was stealing AI secrets

00:49:35.980 from them

00:49:36.340 and it's called China.

00:49:38.160 They do it all over

00:49:39.360 our universities.

00:49:40.320 They do it all over

00:49:40.960 our companies.

00:49:41.780 It's core to them

00:49:42.480 and we ignored it.

00:49:44.740 Now in 2012,

00:49:45.520 we should have

00:49:45.860 blown the whistle,

00:49:46.680 called the game

00:49:47.320 and said,

00:49:48.160 this is a different game.

00:49:50.900 And we,

00:49:51.860 the only thing

00:49:52.560 I would say

00:49:53.160 is that we woke up

00:49:54.880 on Wolf Warrior,

00:49:55.740 the economic coercion

00:49:56.820 10 years earlier

00:49:58.720 than China expected us.

00:50:01.160 And we started

00:50:01.960 making use

00:50:03.040 of that kind.

00:50:04.380 So,

00:50:04.940 was it a mistake

00:50:05.940 in 1999?

00:50:08.740 I,

00:50:09.260 I gotta be honest,

00:50:10.260 it was a 60-40,

00:50:11.520 65-35 call.

00:50:13.880 Do you let them

00:50:14.460 stay out

00:50:15.000 or you bring them in?

00:50:16.660 And when they

00:50:17.160 started changing

00:50:17.980 and not playing

00:50:18.540 by the rules

00:50:19.040 they agreed to,

00:50:20.140 they should have

00:50:20.560 gotten called out

00:50:21.200 earlier.

00:50:22.200 And not just called out,

00:50:23.800 the whistle should have

00:50:24.460 been blown

00:50:24.900 and they should have

00:50:25.620 been forfeited the game

00:50:26.900 and being dealt

00:50:28.160 with differently.

00:50:28.720 They're not a developing

00:50:29.440 economy.

00:50:30.300 They were cheating

00:50:30.920 and stealing their way

00:50:31.900 to economic secrets.

00:50:33.500 And not only cheating

00:50:34.540 and stealing,

00:50:35.580 we permitted

00:50:36.220 American companies

00:50:37.200 to give away

00:50:38.100 research and development

00:50:39.120 to get access

00:50:40.040 to a market.

00:50:41.160 Well,

00:50:41.380 I'm sorry,

00:50:41.880 taxpayers pay for that

00:50:42.820 research and development.

00:50:44.040 We own that

00:50:44.640 as much as

00:50:45.620 any one company

00:50:46.820 owns that R&D.

00:50:48.080 When we give you

00:50:48.540 a tax credit,

00:50:49.520 we're an equity investor.

00:50:51.100 We gave away

00:50:52.020 our family jewels

00:50:52.940 because a bunch

00:50:54.180 of company CEOs,

00:50:55.200 all of us did.

00:50:56.160 DR,

00:50:57.040 both sides of Pennsylvania Avenue,

00:50:58.500 governors,

00:50:59.360 everyone,

00:51:00.440 because they wanted

00:51:01.340 access to the market.

00:51:02.480 And the biggest mistake,

00:51:03.660 we commercialized

00:51:04.540 our forms

00:51:04.980 in national security policy.

00:51:07.140 We commercialized it.

00:51:08.220 The business community

00:51:09.160 had way too big a vote.

00:51:11.220 A big mistake.

00:51:11.940 And now we have to make up

00:51:13.200 for that lost time.

00:51:14.440 We were in the process

00:51:15.940 of doing that.

00:51:17.120 And I think what we're doing,

00:51:18.340 treating allies

00:51:19.060 as if they're adversaries

00:51:20.140 to adversaries,

00:51:20.960 as if they're one day

00:51:21.700 they become allies.

00:51:22.860 And it's a total mistake

00:51:24.540 because we don't know

00:51:25.600 friend from foe.

00:51:27.140 DR.

00:51:27.280 And you say we'd start,

00:51:28.940 and this is a segue

00:51:29.780 then to the Biden years.

00:51:32.020 And, you know,

00:51:32.660 I've been very vocal.

00:51:34.040 I thought it was

00:51:34.420 a master class

00:51:35.080 of policy making.

00:51:36.580 I thought it was

00:51:37.100 extraordinary

00:51:37.620 legislative accomplishments,

00:51:39.080 $369 billion

00:51:40.700 in the IRA,

00:51:41.640 52-3

00:51:42.840 in the Chips and Science Act,

00:51:44.500 $1.2 trillion,

00:51:45.440 I think $550 billion more

00:51:47.440 that new

00:51:48.820 in the infrastructure.

00:51:50.380 I mean,

00:51:50.680 the punchline aside

00:51:52.160 of Trump,

00:51:52.700 I mean,

00:51:52.920 literally 300 weeks

00:51:54.200 of infrastructure

00:51:54.960 bloviation

00:51:56.400 and the Biden

00:51:57.600 administration delivered

00:51:58.560 seemed to me

00:51:59.820 an industrial policy

00:52:01.420 that was worker-centered

00:52:02.500 to begin

00:52:03.380 to substantively

00:52:04.400 address

00:52:04.960 these trend lines

00:52:06.240 and address

00:52:06.720 these headlines

00:52:07.360 of today.

00:52:08.400 Do you agree with that?

00:52:09.640 And I'm not looking

00:52:10.320 you as a former

00:52:11.800 ambassador

00:52:12.240 to the administration,

00:52:13.120 it's difficult to,

00:52:14.440 you know,

00:52:14.680 I'm not looking

00:52:15.440 to create any wedges.

00:52:17.360 But it seemed to me

00:52:18.500 a pretty robust response

00:52:20.580 to the concerns

00:52:22.900 around the working class,

00:52:25.020 to the concerns

00:52:25.760 around what's happening

00:52:26.680 in the heartland.

00:52:27.520 By the way,

00:52:27.920 the heartland includes

00:52:28.760 California,

00:52:30.100 which, again,

00:52:31.200 largest manufacturing state

00:52:32.900 that has more

00:52:33.540 hunting jobs,

00:52:34.300 more fishing jobs,

00:52:35.120 and more forestry jobs,

00:52:36.320 not just ag jobs

00:52:37.520 than any other state.

00:52:38.240 So, Governor,

00:52:39.240 I would say to you,

00:52:40.960 look,

00:52:42.620 it started dealing

00:52:43.760 with the fact

00:52:44.440 that both

00:52:45.280 industrial policy

00:52:46.900 and key sectors

00:52:49.020 of the economy

00:52:49.600 that were going

00:52:49.940 to produce both jobs

00:52:51.040 and economic independence,

00:52:53.260 we started to make

00:52:54.440 investments in America,

00:52:55.860 making up for,

00:52:56.740 which is the other question,

00:52:58.040 which is things

00:52:58.640 that we didn't invest in.

00:53:00.780 And we allowed

00:53:01.480 the freedom of the market

00:53:03.560 to take place.

00:53:04.300 And it affected

00:53:05.000 both our competitiveness

00:53:06.220 and, most importantly,

00:53:07.340 the American people

00:53:08.160 and their confidence

00:53:08.920 in America

00:53:09.460 because we lost face

00:53:10.600 with it.

00:53:12.160 I do think there's,

00:53:14.180 you know,

00:53:14.720 it was robust,

00:53:16.580 but what was one

00:53:17.740 of the principal things

00:53:18.480 that undermined

00:53:19.440 the president

00:53:20.560 was inflation.

00:53:22.180 And that was an outgrowth

00:53:24.020 of the robustness

00:53:25.320 of the first act,

00:53:27.580 which is,

00:53:28.620 and how big it was

00:53:29.940 and you were trying,

00:53:30.700 you know.

00:53:30.880 Which I neglected

00:53:31.520 to reference.

00:53:32.460 I referenced three

00:53:33.320 of the actions.

00:53:34.040 So my point is,

00:53:35.340 was the infrastructure

00:53:36.740 And not exclusively that,

00:53:38.100 I mean,

00:53:38.260 it was partially,

00:53:39.040 I mean,

00:53:39.180 to be fair,

00:53:39.660 you had international.

00:53:40.960 Coming out of COVID,

00:53:42.040 there's a lot of things.

00:53:42.560 Coming out of COVID,

00:53:43.420 supply chains,

00:53:44.220 the war in Ukraine,

00:53:45.580 issues,

00:53:46.220 and obviously

00:53:47.180 international inflation

00:53:48.360 that impacted the globe,

00:53:50.220 but yes,

00:53:51.660 partially impacting America

00:53:53.560 more than the other parts.

00:53:55.340 The first bill,

00:53:56.320 everybody was,

00:53:57.120 oh,

00:53:57.160 it's big and bold

00:53:58.100 and look,

00:53:58.860 I can say this,

00:53:59.660 I mean,

00:53:59.840 a lot of it was,

00:54:01.520 oh,

00:54:01.640 we were going to show

00:54:02.420 President Obama,

00:54:03.860 you know,

00:54:04.220 about the competitiveness.

00:54:05.300 We were going to show

00:54:05.740 President Obama

00:54:06.380 the right way to do this.

00:54:08.020 You think,

00:54:08.260 meaning that Obama's bill

00:54:09.840 wasn't big enough,

00:54:10.880 your bill,

00:54:11.380 and we needed to show

00:54:12.240 we could go bolder

00:54:13.140 and bigger?

00:54:13.380 Look,

00:54:14.600 I always,

00:54:15.260 now you're going to deal with,

00:54:16.420 talk about self-awareness.

00:54:18.120 Nobody ever offered

00:54:19.240 an amendment

00:54:19.740 to make it bigger.

00:54:21.840 That's a fair point.

00:54:22.860 Everybody that's rewriting history,

00:54:24.820 you know,

00:54:25.020 some of us were there.

00:54:26.160 Nobody offered an amendment

00:54:27.060 for a trillion dollars.

00:54:28.200 It wasn't going to pass,

00:54:28.940 okay?

00:54:29.800 Right.

00:54:30.000 So nobody offered it.

00:54:30.980 Everybody that's walking around,

00:54:32.080 oh,

00:54:32.220 it was too small,

00:54:33.200 too timid.

00:54:34.120 Okay,

00:54:34.560 where was your amendment?

00:54:35.980 Calling for a trillion dollars.

00:54:38.380 Okay,

00:54:38.960 nobody did.

00:54:40.200 Number two,

00:54:41.520 it was big,

00:54:42.340 it was bold

00:54:42.700 because we were having a problem,

00:54:44.360 but part of it was all,

00:54:45.200 there was a political piece to this

00:54:46.240 and we should just be honest.

00:54:47.380 It was to show that,

00:54:48.380 oh,

00:54:48.400 we were different

00:54:49.060 than the timidness,

00:54:50.380 which I don't think was timid.

00:54:52.200 President Obama

00:54:53.040 dealt with,

00:54:54.880 on the heels of having

00:54:55.900 just dealt with TARP

00:54:57.280 of what President Bush passed

00:54:58.840 and signed,

00:54:59.960 implementing that,

00:55:00.720 but also the Recovery Act.

00:55:03.660 Well,

00:55:04.040 that was what the political system

00:55:05.360 could bear.

00:55:07.280 Now,

00:55:07.640 the inflation that kicks off

00:55:09.100 under President Biden

00:55:09.760 is one of the pieces,

00:55:11.560 not the only,

00:55:12.300 but it is a result

00:55:13.140 that big and bold

00:55:14.600 came with a price,

00:55:16.260 not just economic.

00:55:17.480 It came with a political price

00:55:18.420 because inflation kicked off

00:55:19.660 and it was known

00:55:20.600 at the time it would.

00:55:22.500 It weren't.

00:55:23.160 But there was something,

00:55:25.440 considerations done

00:55:26.280 where politics was,

00:55:28.040 to be honest,

00:55:28.960 more valuable.

00:55:30.060 Yeah.

00:55:30.440 And I think sometimes also,

00:55:32.060 if I could,

00:55:32.620 in the rewrite,

00:55:34.420 less is more.

00:55:35.200 It became a giant appropriation bill

00:55:37.960 rather than a strategically

00:55:39.220 thought through,

00:55:40.580 and you can,

00:55:41.020 that criticism also applies

00:55:42.160 to certain things we did

00:55:42.940 under President Obama's

00:55:44.420 first bill also,

00:55:47.540 the Recovery Bill,

00:55:48.260 which became too big

00:55:49.960 of a funding bill

00:55:52.760 rather than a strategic approach

00:55:54.380 to either the recession

00:55:56.480 and or post-COVID

00:55:58.560 of President Biden's situation.

00:56:00.060 So,

00:56:00.640 Rom,

00:56:00.960 is your point then

00:56:03.020 that it then

00:56:04.500 clouded over

00:56:05.580 some of the accomplishments

00:56:06.420 on those other bills,

00:56:07.520 sort of that three-legged stool

00:56:08.840 that I was arguing

00:56:09.680 were not insignificant,

00:56:11.400 the Chips and Science Act

00:56:12.440 and the infrastructure bill

00:56:13.460 and in making those investments

00:56:15.160 intentionally in the IRA

00:56:16.340 that have benefited

00:56:17.960 disproportionately

00:56:18.640 rural and red parts

00:56:20.140 of this country.

00:56:21.100 There's no,

00:56:21.640 look,

00:56:22.040 look,

00:56:23.420 you got three or four,

00:56:24.620 in my view,

00:56:27.020 there's

00:56:27.500 telling people

00:56:29.600 that the economy is great

00:56:30.700 when they're

00:56:31.420 feeling stressed

00:56:33.640 as if you're like

00:56:35.340 tone deaf.

00:56:36.180 That's one.

00:56:37.600 Yeah,

00:56:37.820 that's on the politics.

00:56:38.940 Okay.

00:56:39.560 Yep, yep.

00:56:39.900 Second,

00:56:41.380 ready,

00:56:42.000 breaking news,

00:56:42.560 people like order

00:56:43.300 versus disorder.

00:56:44.240 You're talking to the guy

00:56:45.200 in Clinton White House

00:56:46.280 who put together

00:56:46.840 Operation Gatekeeper

00:56:47.980 on San Diego

00:56:48.780 and the border

00:56:49.740 looked totally out of control.

00:56:51.580 I think American people

00:56:52.240 are actually more receptive

00:56:53.220 on immigration

00:56:53.940 but they don't like

00:56:55.180 the law being broken

00:56:56.040 and being so flagrant

00:56:57.260 and disregarded

00:56:57.860 and we allowed it

00:56:58.780 to happen.

00:57:00.280 That's right.

00:57:00.700 And then third,

00:57:02.540 our party,

00:57:04.560 and I've spoken about this,

00:57:06.220 got into a cultural

00:57:07.480 cul-de-sac.

00:57:08.320 You know, look,

00:57:08.800 we weren't good

00:57:09.620 on the kitchen table issues.

00:57:10.980 We weren't really good

00:57:11.700 on the family room.

00:57:12.540 The only room we really

00:57:13.300 did well in the house

00:57:14.120 was the bathroom

00:57:15.060 and I don't know

00:57:15.800 if you know this,

00:57:16.320 Governor,

00:57:16.520 but the bathroom

00:57:17.040 is the smallest room

00:57:17.740 in the house

00:57:18.180 and that's the only place

00:57:20.580 we were good.

00:57:22.340 Okay?

00:57:22.700 And my view is

00:57:23.660 we not only look like

00:57:24.800 we were on the cultural periphery,

00:57:26.540 we look like that's what

00:57:27.580 was front and center for us.

00:57:29.240 Yeah.

00:57:29.700 And I'm sorry.

00:57:31.720 I've written about this.

00:57:32.660 I've talked about it.

00:57:33.840 Stop.

00:57:35.620 The bathroom,

00:57:36.500 the locker room,

00:57:37.240 it's not more important

00:57:38.520 than the classroom

00:57:39.180 and the kitchen table.

00:57:41.400 A lot of things

00:57:41.920 get discussed

00:57:42.500 at that kitchen table.

00:57:43.380 Like, what's going on

00:57:44.900 in the neighborhood?

00:57:46.220 Who are the kids

00:57:46.940 hanging with?

00:57:47.620 How does technology

00:57:49.180 affect our children's isolation?

00:57:51.420 They're in the basement.

00:57:51.980 I can't get them

00:57:52.420 off the telephone.

00:57:54.580 There's a whole host

00:57:55.500 of issues that happen.

00:57:56.760 They happen at your kitchen table.

00:57:57.840 They happen at my kitchen table

00:57:58.980 and they go from the kitchen table

00:58:00.620 to the family room

00:58:01.340 to at night

00:58:01.960 when you have five minutes

00:58:02.780 to talk to your loved one

00:58:04.240 and your partner

00:58:04.700 about what we're going to do.

00:58:05.980 So we actually

00:58:07.360 got totally sidetracked

00:58:10.020 into a discussion.

00:58:11.480 Now, as a party,

00:58:13.460 we're an accepting party,

00:58:14.540 but we started becoming advocates.

00:58:16.640 And I'm sorry

00:58:17.240 when two-thirds of our kids

00:58:19.480 can't read at grade level,

00:58:20.720 the worst in 30 years,

00:58:21.780 two-thirds of our kids

00:58:22.680 can't do math

00:58:23.460 at the worst level

00:58:24.680 in 30 years.

00:58:25.900 That's the priority.

00:58:27.800 You make it

00:58:28.560 for your own children.

00:58:29.940 And we didn't make it

00:58:30.820 for the American children.

00:58:32.240 And this really,

00:58:34.220 like, yes,

00:58:35.040 I was in Japan.

00:58:35.800 I couldn't have been happier.

00:58:36.680 And I was like,

00:58:37.660 I was watching America

00:58:38.580 from this.

00:58:39.080 I said,

00:58:40.380 have we lost our mind?

00:58:43.300 This is a,

00:58:43.880 the Democratic Party

00:58:45.340 is about the American dream.

00:58:46.800 Owning a home,

00:58:48.260 saving for your retirement,

00:58:49.700 saving for your kids' education,

00:58:51.320 and making sure

00:58:52.020 that grandma

00:58:52.720 wasn't one little away

00:58:54.140 from the chapter 11

00:58:55.300 and moving into the house.

00:58:56.540 You wanted her blocks away.

00:58:57.960 Okay?

00:58:59.320 And the American dream

00:59:00.900 is not accessible.

00:59:01.980 It's not affordable.

00:59:02.740 That's the,

00:59:04.400 that is what should motivate us

00:59:06.240 as Democrats

00:59:07.260 to speak to.

00:59:08.600 Now,

00:59:09.020 the opportunity for us,

00:59:10.160 if I can go on

00:59:10.880 in a tirade here.

00:59:13.600 By the way,

00:59:14.300 you sound very much

00:59:15.600 like I have lately,

00:59:16.900 so keep going, Rom.

00:59:18.180 Keep going.

00:59:19.040 Well,

00:59:19.720 the Democratic Party,

00:59:21.680 look,

00:59:22.060 between now and 2026,

00:59:24.860 there's going to be

00:59:25.300 a referendum

00:59:25.720 on Donald Trump.

00:59:28.660 And there's going to be

00:59:29.420 a lot of energy.

00:59:30.200 It's not going to be

00:59:30.600 about us.

00:59:31.180 It's going to be about him.

00:59:31.880 But you're not arguing

00:59:33.260 for that.

00:59:33.760 You're arguing

00:59:34.140 for something bolder

00:59:35.200 and bigger beyond Trump.

00:59:36.240 But here's what I'm arguing.

00:59:37.360 Because the day 2026 is over.

00:59:39.700 Yeah.

00:59:40.180 Got to turn that page.

00:59:41.580 But,

00:59:41.920 and if you want

00:59:42.480 the American people

00:59:43.120 to give you the keys

00:59:44.020 to the car,

00:59:44.940 you got to know

00:59:45.420 how to drive.

00:59:46.360 Yep.

00:59:46.940 You got to know

00:59:47.500 that you have more,

00:59:48.320 you have a Google map

00:59:49.320 to the American dream.

00:59:50.720 Vision.

00:59:51.060 Vision.

00:59:51.160 That you know

00:59:51.420 how to steer that car,

00:59:53.140 not get it off

00:59:53.840 onto the shoulder

00:59:55.240 of the road,

00:59:56.180 and you know

00:59:56.720 how to take it

00:59:58.020 to not just

00:59:59.540 the Newsom children

01:00:00.720 and the Emanuel children,

01:00:01.880 can one day

01:00:02.780 own a home.

01:00:03.920 You have kids

01:00:04.760 graduating college

01:00:05.600 with $35,000 in debt

01:00:07.200 and they're living

01:00:07.880 in the basement

01:00:08.400 until they're 35.

01:00:09.600 This is not

01:00:10.480 how you and I

01:00:11.460 grew up.

01:00:12.880 Right.

01:00:13.180 Then,

01:00:14.080 you got grandma

01:00:14.880 living upstairs

01:00:15.680 where the kids

01:00:16.560 used to live

01:00:17.140 because she can't afford

01:00:19.600 to live on Social Security

01:00:21.660 and Medicare

01:00:22.200 and she's skipping medication

01:00:23.800 and you're skipping

01:00:24.420 doctor visits.

01:00:25.880 This is insane.

01:00:27.960 And if we're going

01:00:28.320 to get the keys

01:00:28.800 to the car

01:00:29.220 between 2026

01:00:30.100 and 2028,

01:00:31.500 we got to tell people

01:00:32.500 you're not going

01:00:33.500 to get the shaft anymore.

01:00:34.780 And I may not

01:00:35.340 solve this problem

01:00:36.160 and I may have

01:00:37.020 my tongue hanging

01:00:37.740 out of my mouth

01:00:38.380 at the end

01:00:38.780 like a dog racing,

01:00:40.420 but I am going

01:00:40.920 to work every day

01:00:41.880 to make sure

01:00:42.920 that more and more

01:00:43.960 American children

01:00:44.740 and more American families

01:00:45.920 have access

01:00:46.500 to that dream.

01:00:47.760 And it has been,

01:00:48.740 and the reason

01:00:49.380 our politics

01:00:50.060 are where they are

01:00:50.920 and the reason

01:00:51.900 we have Donald Trump

01:00:52.780 is that trust

01:00:54.240 between the American people,

01:00:55.380 the American dream

01:00:56.060 and those of us

01:00:56.660 who are stewards of it

01:00:57.540 has been broken

01:00:59.240 and we need to repair it

01:01:01.040 and that's our number one goal.

01:01:03.320 Well, I appreciate

01:01:04.220 everything you said

01:01:04.880 and I also appreciated

01:01:06.040 your courage of saying

01:01:07.020 which I was right there

01:01:09.160 with you

01:01:09.560 calling our party brand

01:01:11.200 which was not

01:01:11.760 very well received

01:01:12.760 at least with my inbox

01:01:14.700 when I called

01:01:15.540 our party brand toxic.

01:01:17.360 I mean, when you're 27%

01:01:18.560 and that, you know,

01:01:19.660 we have a high water market

01:01:20.740 29% on a CNN poll

01:01:22.500 only to see 27%

01:01:24.140 a few days later

01:01:24.980 in NBC poll

01:01:25.760 where people don't trust us,

01:01:27.320 they don't think

01:01:27.780 we have their backs

01:01:28.840 on issues

01:01:29.380 that are core to them

01:01:30.420 which are these

01:01:30.900 kitchen table issues.

01:01:32.360 It is both

01:01:32.820 the kitchen table issue

01:01:33.960 and the family issues.

01:01:35.700 And you mean family

01:01:36.540 broadly defined

01:01:38.120 in what context?

01:01:39.540 Let me say one,

01:01:40.540 let me say a couple things.

01:01:42.880 Now, I'm a product

01:01:44.380 of my experiences.

01:01:47.080 President Clinton

01:01:48.660 is infamous

01:01:49.200 in the 92 election

01:01:50.420 for the economy

01:01:52.520 stupid.

01:01:53.740 But there were

01:01:54.200 a set of issues

01:01:55.220 coming on the heels

01:01:56.680 of both Jimmy Carter,

01:01:58.360 Walter Mondale

01:01:58.960 and then Dukakis

01:01:59.680 where he talked about

01:02:01.520 ending welfare

01:02:02.180 as we know it.

01:02:03.560 A shorthand

01:02:04.280 in your state

01:02:04.960 coming out of

01:02:05.680 the Rodney King

01:02:06.320 sister soldier moment.

01:02:08.480 Yep.

01:02:08.780 That he was centered

01:02:10.340 on a set of values

01:02:11.400 that all of us

01:02:12.220 collectively

01:02:12.700 had a consensus around

01:02:13.980 so that the economic message

01:02:16.080 about the middle class

01:02:17.020 first could be heard.

01:02:19.120 And for President Obama,

01:02:21.240 it became

01:02:21.860 dealing with Father Wright,

01:02:23.300 his pastor,

01:02:24.460 who has made

01:02:24.940 some very ugly comments.

01:02:26.900 For President Kennedy,

01:02:28.340 it was going to Texas

01:02:29.460 to give a speech

01:02:30.680 and say,

01:02:31.120 I'll be a president

01:02:32.160 who's Catholic

01:02:32.740 but not a Catholic president.

01:02:34.180 There were threshold issues

01:02:35.960 that were important

01:02:37.980 on the cultural front

01:02:39.260 that allowed

01:02:40.800 the rest of what

01:02:41.800 we had to say

01:02:42.540 a permission slip

01:02:43.660 to get heard.

01:02:44.340 Now, that's a political analysis

01:02:45.500 and I would say to you,

01:02:47.460 the kitchen table

01:02:48.440 and the family room

01:02:49.660 are a one piece

01:02:50.960 and we got stuck

01:02:52.200 as a party

01:02:52.820 in the bathroom.

01:02:54.840 Which I say jokingly

01:02:56.000 but it's serious.

01:02:56.580 It is the smallest room

01:02:57.620 in the house.

01:02:59.260 And we're not going to be heard

01:03:00.640 on a set of issues

01:03:01.520 and you say 27%.

01:03:03.120 We earned that 27%.

01:03:05.500 The old-fashioned way.

01:03:06.960 We turned our back

01:03:07.860 on the American people

01:03:08.600 and they had hope in us.

01:03:11.840 They put their confidence in us.

01:03:13.760 And we walked away

01:03:15.440 from that contract with them.

01:03:19.920 I'm Israel Gutierrez

01:03:21.400 and I'm hosting a new podcast

01:03:23.080 Dub Dynasty.

01:03:24.600 The story of how

01:03:25.380 the Golden State Warriors

01:03:26.500 have dominated the NBA

01:03:28.260 for over a decade.

01:03:30.100 The Golden State Warriors

01:03:31.360 once again

01:03:32.280 are NBA champions.

01:03:34.900 From the building

01:03:35.660 of the core

01:03:36.280 that included

01:03:36.820 Clay Thompson

01:03:37.580 and Draymond Green

01:03:38.460 to one of the boldest

01:03:39.880 coaching decisions

01:03:40.740 in the history

01:03:41.660 of the sport.

01:03:42.320 I just felt like

01:03:43.280 the biggest thing

01:03:43.960 was to earn the trust

01:03:44.920 of the players

01:03:45.540 and let the players know

01:03:46.960 that we were here

01:03:47.800 to try to help them

01:03:48.780 take the next step

01:03:49.580 not tear anything down.

01:03:51.300 Today,

01:03:51.880 the Warriors Dynasty

01:03:52.680 remains alive

01:03:53.680 in large part

01:03:54.640 because of a scrawny

01:03:55.680 6'2 hooper

01:03:56.840 who everyone seems to love.

01:03:59.000 For what Steph

01:03:59.560 has done for the game

01:04:00.600 he's certainly on that

01:04:01.880 like Mount Rushmore

01:04:02.780 for guys that have changed it.

01:04:04.320 Come revisit

01:04:04.940 this magical Warriors ride.

01:04:07.060 This is Dub Dynasty.

01:04:08.420 The Dub's Dynasty

01:04:09.900 is still very much alive.

01:04:12.980 Listen to Dub Dynasty

01:04:14.020 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:04:15.760 Apple Podcasts,

01:04:16.800 or wherever you get

01:04:17.580 your podcasts.

01:04:24.640 We ready to fight?

01:04:25.820 I'm ready to fight.

01:04:26.660 Is that what I thought

01:04:28.180 it was?

01:04:28.440 Oh, this is fighting words.

01:04:29.740 Okay.

01:04:30.340 I'll put the hammer back.

01:04:31.320 Hi, I'm George M. Johnson,

01:04:35.960 a best-selling author

01:04:36.880 with the second

01:04:37.720 most banned book

01:04:38.680 in America.

01:04:39.900 Now more than ever,

01:04:41.180 we need to use our voices

01:04:42.340 to fight back.

01:04:44.000 And that's what we are doing

01:04:45.200 on Fighting Words.

01:04:48.360 We're not going to let

01:04:49.400 anyone silence us.

01:04:50.640 That's the reason why

01:04:51.300 they're banning books

01:04:52.040 like yours, George.

01:04:53.060 That's the reason why

01:04:54.080 they're trying to stop

01:04:55.340 the teaching of

01:04:56.000 Black history,

01:04:56.620 queer history,

01:04:57.320 any history that challenges

01:04:58.380 the whitewashed norm.

01:04:59.440 Black people have never,

01:05:03.520 ever depended on

01:05:04.820 the so-called mainstream

01:05:06.620 to support us.

01:05:08.060 That's why we are great.

01:05:09.440 We are the greatest

01:05:10.120 culture makers

01:05:11.060 in world history.

01:05:13.960 Listen to Fighting Words

01:05:15.260 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:05:16.900 Apple Podcasts,

01:05:17.860 or wherever you get

01:05:18.640 your podcasts.

01:05:24.160 Hi, I'm Bob Pittman,

01:05:25.580 chairman and CEO

01:05:26.460 of iHeartMedia.

01:05:27.700 I'm excited to introduce

01:05:28.760 a brand new season

01:05:29.760 of my podcast,

01:05:30.840 Math and Magic,

01:05:31.740 Stories from the Frontiers

01:05:32.820 of Marketing.

01:05:33.720 I'm having conversations

01:05:34.960 with some interesting folks

01:05:36.520 across a wide range

01:05:38.040 of industries,

01:05:39.100 to hear how they reach

01:05:39.960 the top of their fields,

01:05:41.180 and the lessons they learned

01:05:42.220 along the way

01:05:42.860 that everyone can use.

01:05:44.340 I'll be joined

01:05:45.060 by innovative leaders

01:05:46.160 like chairman and CEO

01:05:47.460 of Elf Beauty,

01:05:48.580 Tarang Amin.

01:05:49.860 The way I approach risk

01:05:51.180 is constantly try things

01:05:52.920 and actually make it

01:05:53.980 okay to fail.

01:05:55.160 I'm sitting down

01:05:55.800 with legendary singer-songwriter

01:05:57.420 and philanthropist,

01:05:58.460 Jewel.

01:05:59.000 I wanted a way

01:06:00.060 to do something

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01:06:03.080 We're also hearing

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01:06:05.100 their businesses

01:06:05.700 out of unprecedented times,

01:06:07.600 like Stéphane Bancel,

01:06:09.140 CEO of Moderna.

01:06:10.580 It becomes a human decision

01:06:12.340 to decide to throw

01:06:13.640 by the window

01:06:14.340 your business strategy

01:06:15.760 and to do what you think

01:06:17.060 is the right thing

01:06:17.640 for the world.

01:06:18.520 Join me as we uncover

01:06:19.560 innovations in data

01:06:20.620 and analytics,

01:06:21.640 the math,

01:06:22.360 and the ever-important

01:06:23.100 creative spark,

01:06:24.320 the magic.

01:06:24.720 Listen to Math & Magic,

01:06:26.640 stories from the frontiers

01:06:27.740 of marketing

01:06:28.240 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:06:29.840 Apple Podcasts,

01:06:30.980 or wherever you get

01:06:32.040 your podcasts.

01:06:33.260 My name is Brendan Patrick-Hughes,

01:06:34.880 host of Divine Intervention.

01:06:36.880 This is a story

01:06:37.860 about radical nuns

01:06:39.080 in combat boots

01:06:39.980 and wild-haired priests

01:06:41.420 trading blows

01:06:42.540 with J. Edgar Hoover

01:06:43.800 in a hell-bent effort

01:06:45.480 to sabotage a war.

01:06:47.620 J. Edgar Hoover

01:06:48.460 was furious.

01:06:50.220 Somebody violated

01:06:51.600 the FBI

01:06:52.640 and he wanted to

01:06:54.280 bring the Catholic left

01:06:55.560 to its knees.

01:06:56.580 The FBI went around

01:06:57.560 to all their neighbors

01:06:58.520 and said to them,

01:06:59.800 do you think these people

01:07:00.700 are good Americans?

01:07:02.020 It's got heists,

01:07:03.200 tragedy,

01:07:04.040 a trial of the century,

01:07:05.760 and the goddamnedest

01:07:06.880 love story

01:07:07.500 you've ever heard.

01:07:09.040 I picked up the phone

01:07:10.480 and my thought was,

01:07:11.760 this is the most important

01:07:12.880 phone call

01:07:13.440 I'll ever make

01:07:14.340 in my life.

01:07:15.020 I couldn't believe it.

01:07:16.520 I mean, Brendan,

01:07:17.560 it was divine intervention.

01:07:19.420 Listen to Divine Intervention

01:07:23.140 on the iHeartRadio app,

01:07:24.980 Apple Podcasts,

01:07:26.020 or wherever you get

01:07:27.080 your podcasts.

01:07:35.960 The number one hit

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01:08:34.560 What you just said,

01:08:44.980 I think,

01:08:45.260 is really powerful

01:08:46.580 and important

01:08:47.100 because in order

01:08:48.940 for people to hear

01:08:49.860 the other message,

01:08:51.420 they had to hear

01:08:52.500 that we were connected

01:08:56.840 on some of those

01:08:58.040 other issues,

01:08:58.740 meaning it's not just

01:08:59.900 an economic message.

01:09:01.080 I mean,

01:09:01.200 that was, I think,

01:09:01.780 Biden's frustration.

01:09:02.840 He was talking about

01:09:04.060 Build Back Better.

01:09:04.900 He was talking about

01:09:05.560 an economic message.

01:09:06.460 He was talking about

01:09:07.620 his worker-centered

01:09:08.320 industrial policy.

01:09:09.440 But it wasn't necessarily

01:09:10.740 breaking through

01:09:11.540 because we couldn't

01:09:12.520 break out,

01:09:13.860 as you point,

01:09:14.600 of the bathroom debates,

01:09:15.980 the pronoun debates,

01:09:17.000 and all these other debates.

01:09:18.280 I've said this before,

01:09:19.780 so I'll say it here.

01:09:21.520 In his last State of the Union,

01:09:23.780 if my theory of the case

01:09:24.800 is right,

01:09:25.780 in the last State of the Union,

01:09:27.700 when he was not

01:09:29.960 reading off script,

01:09:31.060 he said,

01:09:31.520 when he went off script,

01:09:32.760 he said,

01:09:33.540 illegal immigrants.

01:09:35.760 People didn't like

01:09:36.400 the word illegal.

01:09:37.340 All of Washington's

01:09:38.260 immigration groups

01:09:38.980 started yelling

01:09:39.500 at the White House,

01:09:40.740 and they went to

01:09:41.380 undocumented.

01:09:42.280 Now, to me,

01:09:43.060 that was the slowest pitch

01:09:44.160 over the center plate.

01:09:46.460 He should have said,

01:09:46.940 look.

01:09:47.820 No one's illegal.

01:09:48.780 I remember it.

01:09:49.460 I remember it well,

01:09:50.500 Ron.

01:09:50.640 Yeah.

01:09:51.140 And he switched

01:09:53.800 to the voices

01:09:56.480 on K Street of Washington.

01:09:58.480 Yeah.

01:09:58.980 And to me,

01:09:59.760 that was the easiest

01:10:01.360 way of showing,

01:10:03.040 as I showed Kennedy,

01:10:04.340 Clinton, and Obama

01:10:05.200 had different footprints

01:10:06.680 on this area

01:10:08.960 of what I call

01:10:09.740 a cultural landscape,

01:10:11.120 where he could have said,

01:10:11.800 look, uh-uh.

01:10:13.140 I said what I said.

01:10:13.860 I'm sticking by what I said.

01:10:15.040 If you don't like it,

01:10:15.740 you can use whatever term

01:10:16.500 you want.

01:10:17.520 And this is,

01:10:18.140 I find ironic

01:10:18.780 from a bunch of people

01:10:19.640 yelling at you

01:10:20.380 who, when you say,

01:10:21.820 don't say defund the police,

01:10:23.040 they say it doesn't mean

01:10:23.720 what it says.

01:10:24.260 Well, don't use

01:10:24.980 the English language then.

01:10:27.000 Okay?

01:10:27.520 If it doesn't mean

01:10:28.240 I use the English language,

01:10:29.340 convey what I mean,

01:10:30.040 not what I don't mean.

01:10:31.480 So, to me,

01:10:32.220 we put ourselves

01:10:33.420 in a position

01:10:34.080 where we're not seen

01:10:35.660 or heard

01:10:36.340 by the American people

01:10:37.500 because we disappointed them.

01:10:38.820 And so you're,

01:10:40.380 and I,

01:10:40.800 look,

01:10:41.060 I appreciate

01:10:41.420 the specific example

01:10:42.460 as it relates

01:10:43.020 to Biden

01:10:44.840 in that particular moment

01:10:47.320 as it relates

01:10:47.740 to illegal immigration

01:10:48.560 versus undocumented.

01:10:50.900 But broadly,

01:10:51.740 how do you sort of reflect

01:10:52.940 there's a lot of dialectic

01:10:54.180 within the party

01:10:54.800 or not within the party,

01:10:55.740 within punditry.

01:10:56.900 More broadly than that,

01:10:57.880 it's the weaponization

01:10:58.840 of grievance.

01:10:59.440 The other side

01:10:59.960 so much more effective

01:11:01.000 at making CRT,

01:11:02.760 DEI,

01:11:03.420 ESG,

01:11:04.100 IRS,

01:11:05.080 you know,

01:11:05.340 DOJ,

01:11:05.900 anything with three letters,

01:11:07.300 the issue of the day

01:11:08.520 and that they're able

01:11:09.320 to surround sound

01:11:10.380 Sinclair Media,

01:11:11.580 not just Fox Newsmax,

01:11:12.920 not just One American News,

01:11:14.560 not just the blogosphere

01:11:15.500 and the manosphere,

01:11:16.460 but their ability

01:11:17.520 to shapeshift

01:11:18.400 and constantly

01:11:19.260 we're on the defensive

01:11:20.400 in that respect

01:11:21.680 and they color things in.

01:11:23.460 And even if we're trying

01:11:24.400 to run away

01:11:25.000 from those issues,

01:11:25.860 we don't even want

01:11:26.500 to indulge

01:11:27.500 in those issues.

01:11:28.280 We have an almost

01:11:29.140 impossible time

01:11:30.420 in that media landscape

01:11:31.540 of breaking out

01:11:32.760 and getting back

01:11:33.640 on our message.

01:11:34.380 How do you reflect

01:11:35.740 on that?

01:11:36.620 Is that a component part

01:11:37.760 or is it still

01:11:38.760 we're not victims

01:11:39.580 and we need to take

01:11:40.480 more accountability?

01:11:42.000 Look,

01:11:42.720 they do have

01:11:43.340 a very powerful ecosystem.

01:11:46.020 But,

01:11:46.960 you know,

01:11:47.880 even with the ecosystem,

01:11:49.080 they lost Wisconsin.

01:11:51.740 They lost

01:11:52.780 every special election.

01:11:55.340 So,

01:11:55.600 I mean,

01:11:55.960 one of the things

01:11:56.380 that you and I

01:11:57.020 both know this,

01:11:57.820 don't over,

01:11:58.300 don't over inflate

01:12:01.200 your opponent's power

01:12:02.800 and don't underestimate

01:12:03.980 it either.

01:12:05.300 So,

01:12:05.800 does it have

01:12:06.200 a powerful ecosystem?

01:12:07.700 Yes.

01:12:08.420 Do we,

01:12:08.920 sometimes,

01:12:09.640 are we our worst marketers?

01:12:12.600 Latinx,

01:12:13.380 100,000,

01:12:14.240 you know,

01:12:15.120 defund the police.

01:12:16.220 I can give you

01:12:16.720 chapter and verse

01:12:17.520 of terminology.

01:12:18.820 You know,

01:12:19.640 I'm not,

01:12:20.240 I actually appreciate

01:12:21.360 the spirit,

01:12:22.300 okay?

01:12:22.880 So,

01:12:23.240 don't get me.

01:12:23.980 I appreciate the spirit

01:12:24.960 of those that are

01:12:26.200 going around

01:12:26.880 on protests

01:12:28.160 calling oligarchs.

01:12:29.320 You're all over

01:12:29.880 California.

01:12:30.940 How many people

01:12:31.440 in your,

01:12:32.040 you've been a lieutenant

01:12:32.960 governor,

01:12:33.440 governor.

01:12:34.380 How many times

01:12:34.840 has somebody

01:12:35.080 come up to you

01:12:35.600 and said oligarch?

01:12:37.000 Rather than rich,

01:12:37.920 or big,

01:12:38.460 big,

01:12:38.820 big,

01:12:39.460 fat,

01:12:39.980 special interests,

01:12:41.260 okay?

01:12:41.680 Why don't we use

01:12:42.280 terms that people

01:12:43.500 at the diner

01:12:44.020 understand?

01:12:44.920 Okay?

01:12:45.400 Well,

01:12:45.680 I didn't know

01:12:46.400 we were applying

01:12:46.940 for our tenure

01:12:47.560 position,

01:12:48.700 okay?

01:12:49.200 Give me a break.

01:12:50.100 So,

01:12:50.600 are we our worst,

01:12:51.200 are we our worst

01:12:51.960 victims?

01:12:52.480 Yes.

01:12:52.920 Do they have a

01:12:53.520 more sophisticated

01:12:54.500 ecosystem?

01:12:55.860 Yes.

01:12:57.000 Do people like

01:12:57.620 his tariffs?

01:12:58.640 No.

01:12:59.180 Did we win

01:12:59.640 in Wisconsin?

01:13:00.600 Yes.

01:13:01.420 Did they lose

01:13:02.200 Iscambia County

01:13:03.120 where Pensacola

01:13:03.780 is and it's

01:13:04.220 14% veterans

01:13:05.860 double the

01:13:06.480 national average?

01:13:07.460 First time

01:13:07.960 since five

01:13:09.200 decades a Democrat

01:13:09.940 won that

01:13:10.320 in a national

01:13:10.760 election.

01:13:11.380 Trump won

01:13:11.780 it by 19.

01:13:13.360 We won

01:13:13.660 it by three.

01:13:15.320 Yeah.

01:13:15.820 So,

01:13:16.360 I don't

01:13:16.620 overestimate

01:13:17.340 the power

01:13:17.920 of it.

01:13:19.080 I think

01:13:19.760 I like to

01:13:21.080 have that

01:13:21.420 ecosystem

01:13:21.920 and I like

01:13:22.340 to be more

01:13:22.800 strategic and

01:13:23.480 more sophisticated

01:13:24.140 about how we

01:13:25.440 talk about

01:13:25.920 what's core

01:13:26.420 to us.

01:13:27.580 I wouldn't

01:13:28.140 want to be a

01:13:28.640 better talker

01:13:29.280 about the

01:13:31.780 locker room

01:13:32.260 and the

01:13:32.460 bathroom.

01:13:34.080 I'd rather be

01:13:34.720 a better talker

01:13:35.480 and have a good

01:13:36.200 ecosystem about

01:13:37.140 this is what we're

01:13:37.920 going to do to

01:13:38.240 improve reading

01:13:38.780 scores.

01:13:40.080 Here's how we're

01:13:40.520 going to make

01:13:40.840 sure that kids

01:13:41.460 can do math

01:13:42.080 at math level.

01:13:42.680 here's how we're

01:13:44.040 going to deal

01:13:44.300 with the

01:13:44.620 chronic

01:13:44.900 absenteeism

01:13:45.580 race.

01:13:46.240 So,

01:13:46.480 I'd like to

01:13:46.860 have that

01:13:47.180 ecosystem if

01:13:47.920 I was focused

01:13:48.620 on the right

01:13:49.420 things.

01:13:50.740 If I was

01:13:51.220 saying,

01:13:52.220 you know,

01:13:52.420 and I did

01:13:52.740 not to

01:13:53.360 tout it,

01:13:53.760 but,

01:13:54.100 you know,

01:13:54.280 we created

01:13:54.820 universal

01:13:55.540 pre-K in

01:13:56.100 Chicago.

01:13:56.680 Never had

01:13:57.060 it.

01:13:57.380 Universal

01:13:57.700 kindergarten.

01:13:58.300 Never had

01:13:58.700 it.

01:13:59.100 Free

01:13:59.260 community

01:13:59.600 college for

01:14:00.140 B students.

01:14:00.720 Never had

01:14:01.140 it.

01:14:01.880 So,

01:14:02.140 I'd like to

01:14:02.400 have the

01:14:02.620 ecosystem

01:14:02.980 that tells

01:14:03.600 that story

01:14:04.320 and why

01:14:04.800 it's important

01:14:05.360 that two

01:14:06.900 thirds of the

01:14:07.420 20,000 kids

01:14:08.200 that went to

01:14:08.660 community college for

01:14:09.960 free for

01:14:10.840 the first

01:14:11.140 in the

01:14:11.320 family

01:14:11.540 ever went.

01:14:12.740 That

01:14:13.000 passport,

01:14:13.600 that education,

01:14:15.060 that's your

01:14:16.040 visa and your

01:14:16.560 passport to

01:14:17.100 the future.

01:14:18.600 I think

01:14:18.920 there's other

01:14:19.260 ways.

01:14:19.560 So,

01:14:19.880 I want the

01:14:20.360 ecosystem and

01:14:21.180 I want the

01:14:21.740 way to talk

01:14:22.380 about what

01:14:24.140 we're doing

01:14:24.820 in a

01:14:25.580 strategically

01:14:26.160 focused way.

01:14:27.120 Not that

01:14:27.420 makes me feel

01:14:28.040 better about

01:14:28.420 me,

01:14:29.040 but makes

01:14:29.460 them feel

01:14:29.860 better that

01:14:30.340 I'm actually

01:14:31.320 in their

01:14:31.920 sleeves rolled

01:14:32.860 up like a

01:14:34.180 beaten dog

01:14:34.840 working for

01:14:35.380 them.

01:14:37.080 Rob,

01:14:37.680 are you,

01:14:38.440 and what

01:14:39.300 will segue

01:14:40.340 a little

01:14:40.760 bit off

01:14:41.680 that?

01:14:42.100 You had

01:14:42.780 deep

01:14:43.500 experience

01:14:44.200 with all

01:14:45.260 things

01:14:45.620 tactical

01:14:46.380 and political,

01:14:48.280 particularly

01:14:48.740 not,

01:14:49.400 and you

01:14:49.580 had a

01:14:50.200 remarkable

01:14:50.560 career,

01:14:51.160 so many

01:14:51.620 remarkable

01:14:52.020 roles,

01:14:52.500 working for

01:14:52.860 three

01:14:53.120 presidents,

01:14:53.680 two in

01:14:54.400 sort of

01:14:54.940 more elite

01:14:55.540 and established

01:14:56.100 status.

01:14:57.500 But the

01:14:58.120 Congressional

01:14:58.660 Committee,

01:14:59.500 you were

01:14:59.800 running that

01:15:00.180 in what,

01:15:00.500 2006,

01:15:02.080 right?

01:15:03.600 And I

01:15:04.520 bring up

01:15:04.880 2006 in

01:15:05.700 this context,

01:15:06.660 because after

01:15:07.380 2004,

01:15:08.320 I remember

01:15:08.840 everybody,

01:15:09.300 we got

01:15:09.660 shellacked,

01:15:10.560 they won

01:15:11.360 the popular

01:15:11.860 vote,

01:15:12.220 the electoral

01:15:12.640 vote,

01:15:13.100 Democratic

01:15:13.380 Party was

01:15:14.000 toast,

01:15:14.680 everyone was

01:15:15.160 running,

01:15:15.500 saying we

01:15:15.760 got to

01:15:15.980 go to

01:15:16.200 Applebee's,

01:15:17.420 read what's

01:15:18.320 wrong with

01:15:18.660 Kansas,

01:15:19.560 this is before

01:15:20.120 hillbilly elegy,

01:15:21.320 the whole

01:15:21.660 thing,

01:15:22.180 and we're

01:15:22.840 too elite,

01:15:23.480 we're too

01:15:23.760 out of touch,

01:15:24.660 and then all

01:15:25.060 of a sudden,

01:15:25.520 two years

01:15:25.840 later,

01:15:26.660 you successfully

01:15:28.320 win back the

01:15:29.480 House overwhelmingly,

01:15:30.460 somewhat by Nancy

01:15:31.120 Pelosi's Speaker

01:15:31.920 of the House,

01:15:32.360 and in 2008,

01:15:33.720 you guys went

01:15:34.340 with the biggest

01:15:34.800 landslide since

01:15:35.520 1964 with 53%

01:15:37.280 of the vote,

01:15:37.800 and all of a

01:15:38.480 sudden you're

01:15:38.900 on transition

01:15:39.520 team and

01:15:40.000 chief of staff

01:15:40.660 of some guy

01:15:41.440 named Obama.

01:15:42.260 Is this 2004

01:15:43.520 all over again

01:15:44.520 if we do it

01:15:45.040 right,

01:15:45.740 or are we

01:15:47.140 in a deeper,

01:15:48.000 darker wilderness

01:15:48.760 at this moment

01:15:49.900 from your

01:15:50.240 perspective?

01:15:50.680 So I'll take

01:15:53.260 one anecdote.

01:15:57.200 So the day

01:15:58.020 after we win

01:15:58.720 06,

01:15:59.260 you'll appreciate

01:16:00.060 this.

01:16:01.880 This is the

01:16:02.640 day of

01:16:04.020 President Trump,

01:16:06.060 President Bush

01:16:07.120 rather,

01:16:08.180 giving that press

01:16:08.820 conference that we

01:16:09.520 took a thump

01:16:10.100 in.

01:16:10.880 Yeah.

01:16:12.860 I'm in my

01:16:14.100 Democratic

01:16:15.500 Congressional

01:16:16.100 Campaign Committee.

01:16:16.960 I love this

01:16:17.440 story.

01:16:17.740 And it's

01:16:21.000 President Bush.

01:16:23.880 And he

01:16:24.720 called to say,

01:16:25.620 I want to

01:16:25.820 congratulate you

01:16:26.620 on the race

01:16:27.900 you ran,

01:16:28.400 et cetera,

01:16:28.800 et cetera.

01:16:29.660 And I said,

01:16:30.520 Mr.

01:16:32.440 President,

01:16:33.100 I said,

01:16:33.440 I want to

01:16:33.780 thank you.

01:16:35.020 And he goes,

01:16:35.440 what do you mean?

01:16:35.860 I said,

01:16:36.240 we did everything

01:16:38.080 we needed to do

01:16:38.880 and you did

01:16:39.480 everything we

01:16:39.960 wanted you to

01:16:40.580 do.

01:16:40.760 And he

01:16:41.440 wouldn't fire

01:16:42.160 Rumshal.

01:16:42.680 It was also

01:16:43.100 that,

01:16:43.420 you know,

01:16:43.700 he goes,

01:16:44.420 you know what,

01:16:45.520 Ron,

01:16:46.100 you're as big

01:16:46.640 a prick as

01:16:47.140 they see.

01:16:47.800 We started

01:16:48.220 laughing our

01:16:49.660 asses off.

01:16:50.740 I said,

01:16:51.500 here to

01:16:51.800 serve,

01:16:52.140 Mr.

01:16:52.360 President.

01:16:53.300 And we

01:16:53.860 were,

01:16:54.200 actually,

01:16:54.800 we were

01:16:54.980 very respectful

01:16:55.540 because,

01:16:55.820 you know,

01:16:56.100 two years

01:16:56.480 later,

01:16:56.760 as you

01:16:56.980 said,

01:16:57.980 I'm

01:16:58.220 chief of

01:16:58.540 staff,

01:16:58.920 et cetera.

01:16:59.900 I think

01:17:00.720 this gets

01:17:02.540 back to what

01:17:02.980 I said to

01:17:03.400 you.

01:17:03.640 Between

01:17:03.900 now and

01:17:04.440 2026,

01:17:05.340 it's all

01:17:05.700 about Trump

01:17:06.180 and it's

01:17:06.400 a referendum,

01:17:07.040 him and

01:17:07.260 the

01:17:07.360 Republicans.

01:17:08.640 But we

01:17:09.160 better do

01:17:09.520 the intellectual

01:17:10.120 work right

01:17:10.680 now.

01:17:11.460 On that

01:17:12.020 window of

01:17:12.500 time between

01:17:12.920 2026 and

01:17:13.700 2028,

01:17:14.300 it's going to

01:17:14.460 come fast

01:17:14.920 and furious

01:17:15.360 and we're

01:17:16.240 not going

01:17:16.520 to be living

01:17:16.880 off the

01:17:17.280 fumes of

01:17:17.680 Donald Trump.

01:17:18.480 We're not

01:17:19.660 going to just

01:17:20.040 fight Donald

01:17:20.540 Trump,

01:17:20.840 we're going

01:17:21.040 to fight

01:17:21.300 for America.

01:17:22.820 And I'm

01:17:23.320 spending my

01:17:23.920 time intellectually.

01:17:25.120 What is that

01:17:25.620 fight for

01:17:26.180 America?

01:17:26.860 I love it.

01:17:27.460 So,

01:17:27.740 Rob,

01:17:28.060 just a simple

01:17:28.860 question.

01:17:29.360 It's the last

01:17:29.720 question.

01:17:30.500 And I don't

01:17:30.760 want any

01:17:31.080 bullshit from

01:17:31.780 politicians.

01:17:32.680 I don't like

01:17:32.940 those political

01:17:33.440 answers.

01:17:34.080 Are you or

01:17:34.820 are you not

01:17:35.740 running for

01:17:36.280 president of

01:17:36.720 the United

01:17:36.900 States?

01:17:37.860 Rob,

01:17:38.800 I want to

01:17:39.220 know right

01:17:39.740 now.

01:17:40.080 None of the

01:17:40.680 BS.

01:17:41.080 The American

01:17:42.800 people will

01:17:43.360 decide what

01:17:43.920 is the

01:17:44.200 answer.

01:17:44.680 Here's the

01:17:45.300 answer,

01:17:45.920 which is if I

01:17:46.560 think I know

01:17:47.040 the answer to

01:17:47.600 that question,

01:17:48.740 which is the

01:17:49.500 question I said,

01:17:50.340 which is what is

01:17:51.240 the fight for

01:17:51.720 America and I

01:17:52.360 have something to

01:17:53.320 contribute to that,

01:17:54.660 I'll deal with

01:17:56.020 that.

01:17:56.520 But if I don't

01:17:57.080 think I have

01:17:57.560 something that

01:17:58.040 over yourself,

01:17:59.180 governor, my

01:18:00.140 governor here or

01:18:00.860 other governors,

01:18:01.760 that I think

01:18:02.500 they're doing what

01:18:03.240 I would do and

01:18:04.040 enunciating that,

01:18:05.240 because being

01:18:05.740 anti-Trump ain't

01:18:06.700 going to get you

01:18:07.140 squat in

01:18:07.800 2027.

01:18:09.140 If I have

01:18:09.700 something to

01:18:10.240 say and I've

01:18:10.880 never been shy

01:18:11.420 about saying

01:18:11.840 it, and I

01:18:12.320 don't think

01:18:12.540 anybody else is

01:18:13.100 saying it, and

01:18:13.840 I've thought

01:18:14.320 through in my

01:18:14.780 head how to

01:18:15.260 do it, I'll

01:18:16.740 deal with that.

01:18:17.940 I've got to

01:18:18.520 offer something

01:18:19.160 first that I

01:18:20.120 think the

01:18:20.480 American people

01:18:20.960 need to hear.

01:18:21.760 Well, we

01:18:22.140 heard a lot

01:18:22.580 today, and I

01:18:23.140 really appreciate

01:18:23.600 it.

01:18:23.620 I like the

01:18:24.040 record of

01:18:24.400 the show,

01:18:24.780 governor.

01:18:25.360 You were the

01:18:25.820 first to swear

01:18:26.460 on this show,

01:18:27.020 not me.

01:18:28.940 Bullshit's not

01:18:29.540 even a swear

01:18:30.320 word.

01:18:30.720 Jesus.

01:18:31.260 I mean, come

01:18:31.640 on.

01:18:32.880 I love you.

01:18:33.660 Talk to you soon.

01:18:34.700 See you, brother.

01:18:35.600 Bye.

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01:21:58.740 Take care.

01:21:59.420 Thank you.

01:21:59.940 Bye.

01:22:00.300 Bye.

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01:22:01.180 Dad.

01:22:01.260 Bye.

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01:22:08.160 Bye.

01:22:19.680 Bye.

01:22:20.200 Bye.

This is Gavin Newsom - April 16, 2025

And, This is Rahm Emanuel on How Crony Capitalism And Trump’s Tariffs Will Kill The “American Dream”

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