And, This IsĀ Sean Spicer On Why He ThinksĀ People Want To Be On Team Trump This Time Around
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 10 minutes
Words per Minute
196.08566
Summary
Former first lady Michelle Obama joins Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford to discuss her life, career, and her new podcast All The Smoke. Michelle Obama is a former White House correspondent for CNN, CNN Worldwide, and the New York Times, among other media outlets. She s also the host of the podcast Two Way with Mark Halperin and co-host of The Gavin Newsom Show on The Gavin Show.
Transcript
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I'm Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast.
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The U.S. Open is here, and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain,
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00:02:53.680
Obviously, you've done some of the networks and continue to be part of that.
00:02:58.000
But what I'm enjoying and where I'm seeing Sean Spicer, my guest here on the Gavin Newsom Show,
00:03:02.980
every morning is on Two Way with Mark Halperin.
00:03:06.240
And you're there battling out, but you're doing it in a civil way that, dare I say,
00:03:13.060
provides almost a civic contribution because of your own unique experiences.
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Obviously, Mark, Dan, your co-host, tell me how you landed on this new podcast.
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And where the hell have you been, Sean, over the last few years?
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Not just on right-wing media, but what else have you been up to?
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I mean, obviously, I left the White House in 2017, did a lot of speaking, wrote a book,
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And I don't think any English teacher who had me in high school ever thought that I would
00:04:04.160
But I, we definitely, we're a middle class at best.
00:04:07.280
And so, like, I got to do things after I left the White House that I still pinch myself sometimes
00:04:13.820
As a kid that grew up, you know, very blessed with how much love and time and attention my
00:04:19.920
But we definitely were not the family with the money in town.
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I got an opportunity to go to sort of create my own show, to own the content.
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And one of the things that has really changed in the landscape is the ability to do your own
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And I've had a lot of friends that were sort of friends and mentors who sort of had gotten
00:04:49.540
into the space and were like, here's the thing.
00:04:51.580
It's, if you're willing to hustle and grow your audience, get sponsors, keep them, you
00:05:00.720
So you, the sky's the limit, but it's as much as you're willing to put into it.
00:05:05.020
And I, that's kind of who I, you know, just that, that's, you know, I sold everything
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My dad, as I said, was a salesman and that was a quality instilled in me early on.
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So to me, I was like, okay, I'd rather go this route, own my show, own the content, be
00:05:27.500
able to decide who I want to have on, the direction of the show.
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And then, you know, this kind of segues into the first part of your question.
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When I left Newsmax, every morning we'd had a morning call, as every network does.
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And I mean that because the news director would say, hey, Sean, what do you think the Republicans
00:05:53.280
Because it would help shape the reporters and the other hosts when we would talk about
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I'd spent, you know, a number of years in Capitol Hill, obviously the White House, the
00:06:03.440
And so then, and Mark would say, well, my sources are telling me that that's right.
00:06:06.480
Or I've got a couple that say that it's going to work this way.
00:06:08.700
So when I left the White House, I said to Mark, what if we could do, like Mark Halperin,
00:06:13.160
by the way, for those who don't know, invented the note.
00:06:15.940
And so all these morning things that you get in your email every morning, Mark, back when
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it was at ABC, had a note that he would type up to all of the executives.
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And it was a morning, the first morning tip sheet.
00:06:30.920
And so I said to Mark, what if we actually could do what we do every morning, or we've
00:06:35.000
been doing at Newsmax publicly, and we let people in.
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And so it started off as a thing called debate prep.
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In the morning before all of the Republican debates.
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And we would do it, and we would take the questions on YouTube.
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So I'd weigh in, and I'd say, you know, Bob from San Francisco is asking if he thinks
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that so-and-so is going to ask this question or whatever.
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And we beta tested what I initially, like I said, I wanted to call it the morning prep
00:07:08.160
And Mark said, what if we call it the morning meeting instead?
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And then he said, I'm working on this app called Two-Way, where you could actually not
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read the questions, but we'd be able to take them.
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We finally took, you know, a week off, which just means I get up a couple minutes later.
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But anyway, so we, last week, I think we were the number nine podcast in the country.
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And people loved watching the show because of what you said.
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Dan Turntine was Hillary Clinton's finance director for a campaign.
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He was Jared Polis, his chief of staff, now governor, then Congressman Polis, who's on
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And we have a conversation every morning to explain what's happening, not to win the
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So I'll gladly say 10 times a day, Dan's got a good point there, what I think the president
00:08:04.560
Our goal, and sometimes the audience doesn't want to hear this, is to explain why something's
00:08:10.520
And that was what we would do, like what morning network calls are, where they say, you
00:08:14.080
know, this story is important because of this, or we think the president's going to
00:08:19.160
And that's how this all evolved, was to give people a place to go where if you just want
00:08:24.080
to understand what's happening, not necessarily like win.
00:08:27.340
I feel like I'm sometimes doing color commentary on a game.
00:08:30.760
Like, you know, you can have a team, but you can also say, man, they fumbled that path,
00:08:35.220
you know, they fumbled that play, or he should have been open for that path.
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You're not, it doesn't make you any less of a fan, but you're kind of critiquing the
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system and explaining, you know, he should have run right, not left.
00:08:44.580
And so I love doing it because, I mean, I've been in, I did my first race in 1994 in Connecticut,
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obviously six years at the RNC, 26 years in the military, I think 10 different members
00:08:58.100
So I love to, you know, to explain this stuff and to say, this is really what's happening
00:09:02.380
or why this person's doing this to the best of my ability.
00:09:05.880
And Sean, I mean, it contrasts obviously to what's not necessarily happening in many of
00:09:10.620
the networks where it's really about, you know, just putting spokes in the wheel of,
00:09:17.300
you know, the bike of the other party every single morning, or just being a fan boy for
00:09:25.640
I mean, have you just, I mean, I imagine just reflecting, obviously, you know, from
00:09:30.560
the perspective of, you know, the president, Fox News and One American News, Newsmax itself
00:09:35.900
has favored nation status comparatively to MSNBC and CNN and everything.
00:09:41.500
But sincerely, on the basis of what you just described in the work you're doing with Mark
00:09:45.160
and Dan every single morning, I mean, what is your over-under in terms of the health of
00:09:52.540
our democracy in relationship to what appears to be the growing propaganda that's coming
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from the networks, not necessarily the news coming from the networks?
00:10:02.040
Well, the funny part about this, I got asked a similar question.
00:10:05.760
I spoke to a journalism class in Florida, Florida University several months back.
00:10:11.280
Someone said, well, what do you think about the decline of journalism?
00:10:16.200
I would argue that, in fact, it's much healthier now.
00:10:20.740
So I stream the morning meeting every day on my YouTube page.
00:10:24.200
So from 9 to 10 Eastern, you can listen to Mark, Dan, and Sean talk about the analysis.
00:10:28.840
And then I've got a show, the Sean Spicer show.
00:10:33.440
Every night, 6 o'clock Eastern on my YouTube channel and across all the other podcasts,
00:10:39.020
So, you know, to your point about I'm an unabashed, unapologetic Trump supporter.
00:10:48.060
But there's different venues for different things.
00:10:50.180
So in the morning meeting from 9 to 10, I want you to understand the process.
00:10:56.000
And in the evening at 6 o'clock, I'm going to serve up my point of view and tell you why
00:10:59.840
I think that Trump's doing the right thing, why I believe we need a Republican majority,
00:11:07.600
But part of the other thing that, you know, you were touching on, there's various things
00:11:17.000
But there's also, to me, what annoys me, and I know you probably have seen this throughout
00:11:20.920
your career, is whether it's a Democrat analyst or what's the other big name on TV, and then
00:11:27.940
the Republicans one where I'm like, dude, who do you consult for?
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I mean, there are people that I'm like, you've never run a race.
00:11:35.200
And this person is a pundit, which again, it's America.
00:11:39.600
But what I love about what I do is I'm trying to explain to people, look, I've been in the
00:11:44.880
I can tell you what it's like to why this decision is getting made or what this person's
00:11:51.560
really like in person, whether you agree with me or not.
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And I think that's different than watching sometimes people on all of these networks
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opine with no knowledge of why, how the process works, right?
00:12:03.640
And I tell people every once in a while, when I was the assistant US trade rep, and back
00:12:09.060
in the day, we filed an intellectual property case against China in the World Trade Organization,
00:12:15.400
And we were really proud of ourselves for doing it because it was, you know, we're standing
00:12:19.080
up for intellectual property, which is a huge thing that China steals.
00:12:23.100
It was funny, though, because the reaction after the fact was not the excitement that we
00:12:28.460
had anticipated because China's answer was to say, great, we're banning all US movies
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And so sometimes what that taught me and part of the lessons that I can bring to viewers
00:12:38.900
is sometimes decisions aren't as easy as you would think they would be, right?
00:12:42.780
You would think, hey, we're standing up for China.
00:12:44.200
We're standing up for our intellectual property here in America.
00:12:52.260
And then you realize, well, because the industry may not want you to because they may actually
00:12:56.600
lose money on that decision, which would cost Californians or, you know, whoever jobs in
00:13:02.920
And so what I love to do is to sometimes say, hey, guys, here's a decision that's being made.
00:13:07.940
I know it seems easy on its face, but let me give you a little bit more context about
00:13:12.500
what's going on in that decision making process.
00:13:15.280
So, I mean, it's interesting that you reflect on this current media environment as much more
00:13:22.820
nuanced and more complex and perhaps open because not only you're platforming different points
00:13:28.900
of you as it relates to more of an objective frame to a more subjective, more partisan frame
00:13:33.400
in different parts of what you're presenting and putting out in content.
00:13:37.100
But there's more content, I guess, is your argument than there's ever been.
00:13:40.620
So if you want to watch MSN, and back when I grew up as a conservative, right, and we're
00:13:46.700
roughly the same age, I'm a little younger, you had three channels in PBS and that was it.
00:13:53.280
And they decided what you read, saw and heard every day between them and sort of your local
00:13:57.640
paper. I love the idea that if you want more of a partisan tinge, you know where to go on
00:14:02.500
either side. If you want straight up news, but also if you really want news on the technology
00:14:07.780
front, there's tons of people putting out blogs and sub stacks and newsletters and YouTube
00:14:13.100
channels on AI. So I like the fact that you have more options now. You get to decide what
00:14:18.680
you want. I mean, and I'm one of those people, I look across the spectrum. I'll read NPR.
00:14:23.640
I'll read some of the stuff in MSNBC. Not a lot. But enough to know what the other side
00:14:29.460
is saying, because I want to know the other argument. But I like the idea that I'm not
00:14:34.080
being spoon fed. You know, when I grew up in Rhode Island, it was the Providence Journal,
00:14:38.380
either you got the morning edition or the evening edition. And that was it. Like there was,
00:14:42.460
if they didn't put it in the paper, it didn't exist. So I like the idea that I can go now find
00:14:47.640
experts on any subject, dive down. I can find objective ones. I can find a variety of subjects.
00:14:54.680
And Sean, what about it finding you, though? What about the algorithms? What about our inability
00:14:58.600
to get out of these networks? I mean, the challenge I think many of us find, once you dial it up,
00:15:06.020
we can get into some of the particular apps. But anyone that's been, for example, on TikTok,
00:15:11.220
I'm wondering when you get to the issues around China and TikTok. But the algorithms are such,
00:15:15.320
you can immediately, with two or three searches, all of a sudden now, you're off in a completely
00:15:20.780
different direction. And now, all of a sudden, it's finding you. It's from search to suggest.
00:15:26.980
Or ultimately, now, the news, you're being blocked out from more of an objective
00:15:31.340
version or vision of the world. I mean, what do you make of that in the context of what's being fed to
00:15:37.560
us, not what we're able to actually discover? Well, clearly, it's a problem, right? I know you just
00:15:43.020
use that as an example, but that's another warning to stay off TikTok, because I think it's-
00:15:48.640
I have a very, I believe it's a national security threat to our country.
00:15:51.620
What'd you, by the way, what'd you make of Trump then jumping back on TikTok?
00:15:54.960
I'm just, I actually, I get he's trying to do a deal. I get he's trying to do US ownership.
00:15:59.960
And I also understand that right now, there's a lot of kids on it. But that's actually, to me,
00:16:03.780
you know, people ask me all the time, is there an area you disagree with President Trump? And I would
00:16:06.640
say TikTok is up there. There's a couple others. But I do believe it's a threat
00:16:10.780
to not just young people in particular, but to all Americans. What China is doing to gather our
00:16:16.980
information is a national security issue. What they're doing to mold what we, the perceptions
00:16:22.840
that we hold on a variety of subjects is a national security threat. That being said, to your original
00:16:28.080
question, I do think that's a problem, all right? But I also think, again, remember the context in
00:16:33.460
which I started, where how we grew up. You had three channels, and depending on where you lived,
00:16:38.100
one paper, they decided what you saw. And knowing what I know as a conservative, it never came my
00:16:43.700
way. I remember going out in my first couple campaigns, Governor, and we would always get a
00:16:49.140
call from whatever, you know, the local newspaper was of wherever the campaign that I was. And they'd
00:16:54.620
say, hey, the Environmental Working Group just put out a scorecard. Your candidate, because you're a
00:16:59.300
Republican, sucks. And the Democrats, great. And so what is your comment? And I'd say, you know,
00:17:03.640
we care about the environment. We love clean air, clean water, blah, blah, blah. And then I'd call
00:17:07.840
the same reporter back a week later and say, hey, the Chamber of Commerce just put out a scorecard.
00:17:12.300
We're great. The Democrat sucks. And they'd say like, well, that's really not an issue that we
00:17:16.960
think is important. And I'd say, I mean, so which would you rather have? The ability to go out,
00:17:22.280
search for more information, or your local current media outlets deciding that we're only going to show
00:17:28.680
you with certain things. It's kind of the same thing, except now I'm aware of the fact that
00:17:34.080
certain social media outlets and algorithms are going to try to go down rabbit holes. I think
00:17:39.440
informed people know to search further, to search farther, to question what they're hearing and
00:17:45.900
seeing and look for other sources, which is why, you know, I was doing a project the other day on
00:17:50.740
wellness. And I was like, let me just go through Substack and see who some of the big Maha type
00:17:56.200
newsletters are. And it was great because I found people on both sides of issues, pros and cons on
00:18:03.160
a variety of subjects. And I was like, okay, I feel like I'm getting a nice, but yeah, you've got to
00:18:08.860
be careful and cognizant of the fact that you're going to get served up certain things. But I don't
00:18:13.240
know how that's any different than, you know, if you just limited to, you know, if we were in a world
00:18:17.900
that was limited to cable. Yeah, I get it. And speaking of cable, I'm curious, just your assessment.
00:18:22.740
I think every year for the last many years, I don't even remember the last time it wasn't the
00:18:27.340
case, but it seems 14 out of the top 15 most watched cable shows are Fox. I think Rachel
00:18:34.540
Maddow is the one exception. And she's just one day a week on Monday night. I mean, just right wing is
00:18:42.180
dominating the nightly cable networks or cable more broadly. Why do you think that's the case?
00:18:48.240
A couple things. As I said, like when I grew up, like you, we don't, I think it's almost like
00:18:55.740
living in a world where you didn't realize that you, you wonder why issues didn't get attention
00:19:02.380
or covered. And when Fox came along, it filled a void. But if you think about what, what's on your
00:19:08.980
cable dial right now, like with the, I mean, Fox is the 800 pound gorilla, but it's alone. So you've
00:19:14.660
got ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, all sort of focused on, at best, a left of center view of the world.
00:19:24.360
And Fox kind of consolidates the right of center view of the world. And so I think for people who
00:19:30.060
are going there, they, that's, they're, they're tired of getting one perception of the world and
00:19:36.600
the news. And they've all consolidated around Fox. You look at a show like The Five, it's the most
00:19:40.900
popular show, Gutfeld in the evening. But I think part of it is a consolidation of, of viewership,
00:19:47.740
right? So if you, if you look at what they get, there's not a ton of competition on the right.
00:19:52.040
When you look at what's, what's on the cable dial.
00:19:54.600
We saw, I mean, obviously News, News, News Nation, News Max, I mean, obviously trying to,
00:19:59.620
one American news trying to sort of capture some market share.
00:20:02.140
Well, I think just as a side note, because full disclosure, I do contribute to News Nation. That's
00:20:05.820
probably the most straight down the, the middle outlet that's out there. But I would also argue
00:20:11.320
that, you know, cable in itself faces this existential crisis where the average viewer,
00:20:15.700
I think of MSNBC, CNN, even, you know, I think Fox is, is like 69, 70 years old.
00:20:21.320
So part of the reason why I jumped into independent media, why I think this is the future is because,
00:20:27.540
and I'm sure you see this all over when you're out talking to folks, like most people now are
00:20:31.920
cutting the cord, maybe YouTube TV, where they're, you know, kind of still getting traditional
00:20:36.360
outlets. But even so, you're seeing more and more people streaming programs, not watching it as much
00:20:41.860
anymore. I mean, I, there are days, I said to my wife a couple of weeks ago, we were up in Rhode
00:20:46.360
Island, and I was like, God, I can't remember the last time I watched television. You know,
00:20:50.340
because I'm on, not that I'm online, probably more than I should be. But, but I think we've just,
00:20:58.460
It's interesting. What, I am curious, when you came out of the White House, and, you know,
00:21:03.860
for those that wanted to tune in and have me go back to every single Sean Spicer press conference,
00:21:09.520
there's a hundred other channels, a hundred other interviews with Sean that, you know, so I don't,
00:21:14.700
I don't even want to tread on a lot of that. But I am curious, just coming out of the White House,
00:21:19.280
and just being attached to Trump, and trying to be your own person, I imagine. I mean, that said,
00:21:24.240
also taking advantage of that, because there's a lot of doors open up in that Trump world,
00:21:28.780
et cetera. I mean, as, you know, sort of unpacking where we started, as you've been on your own
00:21:33.860
journey as now a podcaster, sub attacker, and consulting, also doing some political consulting
00:21:38.020
work as well on the side. But was that more daunting or more opportunistic than you expected,
00:21:46.220
meaning having that Trump brand on the resume, being that spokesperson for Trump? Did it open more
00:21:52.180
doors or to close more doors for you? It's a great question. Both. So it opened a lot,
00:21:59.700
like I said earlier, like, look, I, I'm blessed by what my parents provided for me and my brother and
00:22:05.260
sister, but like, it was, it was love and support, not, not money and gifts. And so the ability to do
00:22:13.020
things, um, like, I mean, I, I opened the Emmys out, um, in, in your neck of the woods. Uh, I mean,
00:22:21.640
the idea, I mean, listen, I didn't even make my high school, my junior high, uh, uh, Philadelphia
00:22:26.080
trip or something. We didn't have the money to do it. So to be like, Hey, do you want to go open
00:22:29.000
the Emmys? Uh, there were things that I got to do that are mind boggling to me that I, as a kid
00:22:34.780
growing up in Rhode Island, like if I told that to my 18 year old self, um, that you were going to be
00:22:41.300
having these traveling to these places, meeting these people. Um, so yes and no. So what the,
00:22:47.400
the yes part is there's no way in God's earth that I would have done or had the opportunity to
00:22:52.220
do any of the things had it not been for the opportunity that president Trump gave me.
00:22:55.740
That being said, the environment then, and the environment now, I, is night and day. Uh,
00:23:03.080
I was personally attacked. My house was put up for sale on Zillow. Uh, we had cameras outside.
00:23:08.700
We faced all sorts of threats. Um, I, I got attacked in multiple Apple stores. I know
00:23:15.080
there's only one that really got a lot of attention, but there's others, a grocery store.
00:23:19.820
Um, and, and it's, it's, and it's not just me by the way. I mean, I, I've kids, uh, I've
00:23:24.700
tried to keep them out of my public life, but it's not easy when you're with them and you're
00:23:31.020
at dinner and someone's standing outside, giving your family the finger or chanting something
00:23:35.200
and they're asking daddy, why are they doing that? Um, so, you know, like I said, it's
00:23:40.800
both. I got some amazing opportunities that I would have never gotten, but at the same
00:23:44.700
time, there, there, there were places, um, who would say to me, Hey, we, we want to work
00:23:50.560
with you cause we're looking to get some insight in the Trump administration, but can you sign
00:23:54.020
five NDAs and can we run this through like a Swiss shell company? So no one knows that we're
00:23:58.200
actually talking to you. Um, there were plenty of events where we started down a path and
00:24:03.140
then they'd get can, you know, an opportunity would get canceled. Um, it was a lot of like
00:24:08.460
cloak and dagger. Like, we'd love to have you come talk to our board, but you have to come in
00:24:11.540
a back door. No one can know that you're here. Um, people. So the first iteration of Trump was
00:24:17.160
fairly vicious and obviously the Mueller report was going on. People were making all sorts of
00:24:21.320
false allegations. Um, I, so I, I, I will say this, this second term, I mean, it's, it's like
00:24:30.040
a night and day. People are excited to work with you. It's the opposite. They're like,
00:24:34.020
can we promote that we're working with you? Can you talk to us openly about Trump? Um,
00:24:38.160
I think the president 2.0, um, is it's such a different place than he was, uh, in the first
00:24:45.620
term for a variety of reasons. And, and a lot of it was just a learning curve, et cetera. I mean,
00:24:49.120
I'm glad to go into it, but I think there is so much that is different between the first term
00:24:54.700
and the second term. No, I love that. It's a great segue because I wanted to talk about that. I mean,
00:24:58.560
I've, you know, I have my own experience with Trump, obviously as governor for two years,
00:25:02.880
uh, involved in, you know, we were involved as a state with 122 lawsuits with the Trump
00:25:07.760
administration. That said, and you may recall this during COVID, we had a very good working
00:25:12.420
relationship as a democratic governor. Uh, we were constantly on the phone, uh, working through
00:25:17.520
issues. There may have been a lot of noise on true social or Twitter, uh, but we were actually
00:25:22.080
constructive. Uh, but I will acknowledge things are radically different this second term. And I
00:25:28.540
found them to be very different as well. And that's on the basis of a lot of interpersonal
00:25:32.680
engagement, an hour and a half in the Oval Office. I think it was the first democratic governor to spend
00:25:37.580
that kind of time with them in the Oval Office phone calls since, and obviously we're going back
00:25:42.780
and forth now, but I'm curious. I've seen a few of those. You've seen a few. There's,
00:25:46.740
there's a lot of it. I, I, I, I'm wondering how's the, how are, um, hat sales going?
00:25:51.560
By the way, you know, the most extraordinary sales we've ever seen just as our most beautiful maps,
00:25:56.800
uh, that are out there. But I will say, uh, the biggest selling item is that, uh, picture of
00:26:03.260
Tucker Carlson and, uh, the late great Hulk Hogan. And of course, Kid Rock himself, uh, blessing me,
00:26:10.240
which is, uh, limited edition, Sean, if you want to pick up one, I do it now before, by the way,
00:26:15.580
before I put my crypto coin out, which I also think will be a, a hot seller.
00:26:19.800
Well, I didn't want to get ahead of this, but you do know that we're going to tariff all of that.
00:26:24.420
Yes, you are. Well, we'll get to the tariffs in a minute.
00:26:28.320
Get fired up y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of
00:26:33.840
my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapinoe to the show. And we had a blast.
00:26:40.600
We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her
00:26:44.900
fiancee, Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pinoe. Take a
00:26:51.120
listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final, the final and the locker
00:26:57.060
room. I really, really like you just, you can't replicate. You can't get back showing up to locker
00:27:03.180
room every morning just to talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace
00:27:09.880
Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all the guest list is absolutely
00:27:15.380
stacked for season two. And you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and
00:27:19.440
happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with
00:27:23.240
Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
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I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive.
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Find resources for breaking through barriers at TaylorPaperCeiling.org. Brought to you by
00:28:02.120
Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job,
00:28:07.460
a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on She Pivots, I dive into the inspiring
00:28:13.400
pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer. Jodi Sweetin.
00:28:18.840
Annika Patton. Elaine Welteroth. I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I gotta go. I don't know
00:28:24.200
how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting
00:28:30.560
because your life is going to be full of them. Every episode gets real about the why behind these
00:28:35.340
changes and gives you the inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these
00:28:41.240
women and more on She Pivots now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:28:48.780
Culture eats strategy for breakfast. I would love for you to share your breakdown on pivoting. We feel
00:28:56.300
sometimes like we're leaving a part of us behind when we enter a new space, but we're just building.
00:29:01.820
On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Valisha Butterfield, media founder,
00:29:06.780
political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling,
00:29:11.660
impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership.
00:29:14.220
I am a free Black woman who worked really hard to be able to say that.
00:29:20.380
I'd love for you to break down why it was so important for you to do seed.
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From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys,
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Valisha's journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change.
00:29:32.960
A very fake, capital-driven environment and society will have a lot of people tell half-truths.
00:29:39.660
I'm telling you, I'm on the energy committee. Like, if the energy's not right, we're not doing it,
00:29:45.920
whatever that it is. Listen to Culture Raises Us on the iHeartRadio app,
00:29:49.480
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:29:54.560
And I am Scotty Landis, and we host Bananas, the weird news podcast with wonderful guests
00:30:13.320
We also dig into important life stuff, like why our last names would make the worst hyphen ever.
00:30:19.720
My last name is Cummings. I have sympathy for nobody.
00:30:22.860
Yeah, mine's Brownohler, but with an H, so it looks like Brownohler.
00:30:26.960
Okay, that's, okay, yours might be worse. We can never get married.
00:30:31.280
Listen to this episode with Whitney Cummings, and check out new episodes of Bananas
00:30:37.920
Listen to Bananas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:30:42.360
But look, Trump 1.0, 2.0, I've heard you talk a lot about it, and you've talked about the discipline.
00:30:52.840
You've talked about the fact that this is a more prepared second-term presidency,
00:30:58.580
They're more, quote-unquote, professional, from Susie Wiles as chief of staff to what they're doing at the OMB.
00:31:06.540
But they're unified, a word you often, I hear, use.
00:31:10.540
Give us a sense, I mean, you know, without going too deep into the well of what was wrong in that first term.
00:31:16.540
Do you maintain that as we sit here in month seven, going into month eight,
00:31:21.120
that this is a well-oiled machine and that he's excelling in terms of advancing his stated goals?
00:31:29.800
Oh, absolutely. Look, so I'll just start with this.
00:31:32.140
If you are a supporter of President Trump and the America First agenda, which I proudly am,
00:31:36.540
the amount of accomplishments I don't think is questionable.
00:31:41.820
Like, you look at what he has done on trade, what he has done on taxes,
00:31:48.100
what he has done on the border, what he has done on the Make America Healthy Again movement.
00:31:53.340
Now, you may not, now, one may not agree with that.
00:31:55.820
But I would argue, as, I love watching these cabinet meetings,
00:31:58.980
and I know some people have issues with them, but I feel like everyone's getting called to account.
00:32:04.340
Like, everybody has to list off, what did you do?
00:32:07.720
So, you know, when I was in college, I hid in the back row, tried to make sure I didn't get called on.
00:32:12.140
Now, if you look at a Trump meeting, you hear from every single one of those folks,
00:32:18.020
And I mean, Sean Duffy at the Department of Transportation, looking at our air traffic control systems,
00:32:23.640
what we're doing to keep our highways safe with CDL licensing.
00:32:29.780
Lee Zeldin talking about the environment, what they're doing to help reduce the regulatory burden on small businesses.
00:32:35.640
So, again, if you're maybe some folks on your side of the aisle party, you may not agree,
00:32:39.880
but I would think that regardless of where you are, you've got to admit that he's got a lot done.
00:32:44.320
And Sean, just on that, I'm curious, and forgive me, I do want you to continue to expand on the point,
00:32:49.220
but also you hear at those cabinet meetings, I mean, there's a lot of dear leader vibe.
00:32:56.180
I mean, every single one of those folks starts out with this sort of unctuous compliments.
00:33:02.920
Is that, I mean, honestly, does that, do you cringe about that?
00:33:06.560
Or you think that's also part of the charm or part of, I mean, what do you make of that?
00:33:12.140
I mean, yesterday's cabinet meeting was extraordinary in that respect.
00:33:22.160
But I think that, look, the president deserves credit for the people he's picking and the ability to allow them to do that.
00:33:28.560
Now, how some of them choose to express their gratitude, again, I think delivery matters.
00:33:38.680
I sort of personally, like I said, if you heard what I said, I love the focus on results.
00:33:44.280
Like, so, no one can get up there and just BS and say, dear Mr. President, I love you.
00:33:52.280
They have to then go into, what did you get done?
00:33:54.660
And I am a believer, as someone who's been a commanding officer, who has been in charge of groups and organizations.
00:34:01.080
Like, I don't, the fluff, great, say it, but then get to what you did.
00:34:09.300
Yes, you might start off by saying something very laudatory, but at the end of the day, you have to get to, what did I do to deliver for the American people?
00:34:15.980
And that goes into what I believe is different.
00:34:18.800
There's three things, the people, the process, and the policies.
00:34:21.760
And, look, when we got brought into Trump 1, and, again, he's not a politician.
00:34:26.520
The guy was picking people, some of them he knew, some of them he didn't, and people would recommend him.
00:34:32.180
I think the best person to be the ambassador to, you know, France is so-and-so.
00:34:36.540
I think that so-and-so would be great for the Department of the Interior.
00:34:45.980
I was in the room plenty of times where those conversations occurred.
00:34:48.720
I don't think every single person, in fact, a lot of them, did not come in for the right reasons, meaning they weren't coming in to advance his agenda.
00:34:55.600
In some cases, they were coming in to advance their own or to actually stand in the way of it and to oppose it.
00:35:02.740
This time, what the media gets wrong about the people in the room, in his cabinet in particular, in the subcabinet, and this is where, again, they just say, oh, they're all loyal.
00:35:22.200
Every one of these people, from the Secretary of Defense to the Attorney General to the Secretary of Treasury and Commerce, is a doer.
00:35:36.000
And then the policies, they know, four years out of office, I always tell people, it's like when you, if you grew up playing a team sport and you play the same team later in the season, your coach will likely say, remember, they came up strong on the right and we didn't block them well.
00:35:53.840
Four years out of office has allowed these guys to think through how to get things done properly, what the opposition force is going to look like.
00:36:02.320
And I keep contrasting the sort of the firing of Lisa Cook at the Fed this week with how we handled Comey.
00:36:10.780
When we fired Comey, the president called me into the Oval and said, Sean, put out a statement.
00:36:16.140
And I literally sat there and said, Mr. President, we need to inform congressional leaders.
00:36:19.540
We need to do this, da, da, da, because I just had been around, you know, long enough.
00:36:23.460
I was like, here's what's going to, I'm going to get asked as press secretary.
00:36:26.220
I'm going to get asked, did you inform, you know, Leader Schumer?
00:36:30.920
And I said, so we just need to go through some of these processes.
00:36:33.860
But admittedly, you know, it was not probably done the best in terms of rollout.
00:36:40.680
I think how they've handled things like that between the policies and the personnel rollout, they get the process a lot more now.
00:36:48.280
Are you arguing that what they're doing with Cook is a better process in that respect?
00:36:53.160
Meaning that she's guilty of something without due process and she should be removed?
00:37:02.860
The Federal Reserve Act of 1913, Section 10, says that the president has the ability to remove anyone for cause.
00:37:11.920
Like, you've let people go, I'm sure, at some point, and not because they were guilty of something or were convicted in a court of law.
00:37:19.040
You said, hey, Susie, you've shown up five days late for work.
00:37:26.800
This woman signed documents that are public that she declared her primary home in two residents.
00:37:34.680
Now, whether she gets convicted or not, an employer, I've had to fire people before.
00:37:42.540
In fact, a lot of times it's like, hey, we're going to let you go so that, you know.
00:37:46.380
And, Sean, just on ā no, and I appreciate that.
00:37:48.940
And it certainly is ā the frame is for cause.
00:37:52.220
But you don't find anything curious about that coincidental that Adam Schiff and Tish James have the same accusations, and they're just sort of coincidental.
00:38:02.760
And Paxton, who's got accusations against him in Texas, there's been no consideration and criteria for a similar investigation.
00:38:12.500
This is just professionalism at the highest levels of the Trump administration, weeding out corruption, and they just happen to fall on these three people coincidentally?
00:38:23.340
Well, again, first of all, like it's not ā like Adam Schiff, Tish James ā I mean, you're his governor.
00:38:28.760
I think that's not just a mortgage fraud issue, but it's an electoral problem.
00:38:32.760
The guy by the Constitution is required to live in your state.
00:38:36.000
He has signed a document saying that Maryland is his primary residence.
00:38:39.480
You should probably be entitled to a senator that represents California and lives there.
00:38:43.920
So I would argue that this is probably more of your problem.
00:38:46.880
By the way, Sean, I'm trying to go to an event where Schiff has not already left because he was there before I was there.
00:38:52.860
I did look at that this morning, and I thought this is going to be interesting.
00:38:57.960
But honestly, I mean, you can't in good conscience say that's just ā I mean, this is just a professionally well-ordered machine doing everything right.
00:39:12.920
One ā I honest to God, and I say this like in all honesty because I don't ā I'm not ā I know that there's some issues that have brought up with the attorney general.
00:39:21.700
I didn't know about the mortgage fraud, to be honest with you.
00:39:23.640
Maybe that ā so if that's true, I'd be willing to look at it.
00:39:29.580
One, the first question was, was the process different than the first term?
00:39:33.100
And as I said with Comey, they did ā we just fired him, announced it like you're gone, and then built the plane in midair to explain why later.
00:39:49.780
So I ā as a consumer of the news and as a citizen, I go, okay, I know what you're accused of.
00:39:55.640
If that's cause, and which I believe a judge would argue is cause, because again, it doesn't mean you have to be guilty of it, which I actually ā from what I can see, I'm no judge.
00:40:04.820
But I would say that if you sign two pieces of paper claiming two different states are your primary residence to get a lower interest rate, neither one that you've actually lived in and used for rental purposes.
00:40:16.520
I didn't get a ā I had to get the higher interest rate and a bigger down payment because it ā I wasn't going to lie on a form.
00:40:26.500
Like, as I said, I mean, Tish James had a property here in my state of Virginia saying ā and she's the New York Attorney General claiming that Virginia is her primary residence.
00:40:38.620
The one last thing is I would say ā and this is why after watching the four years of what they did to Trump, especially, especially in New York, claiming that misdemeanors, bookkeeping misdemeanors that passed the statute of limitations somehow all roll up into a fake felony and then telling the jury, you don't even need to come up with a crime.
00:40:58.720
And then we've actually got receipts on these folks.
00:41:02.800
I mean, you know, one could argue that with selective prosecution, I think any objective observer would have to maintain these three cases seem to be rather selective and curious.
00:41:15.800
And I guess the deeper problem that I have ā and I appreciate your framework around this being a better process than Comey, and I do appreciate your framework on that.
00:41:24.960
But this idea that it's better because the DOJ is now being weaponized in a very overt way, perhaps ā I mean, Pam's standing right behind the president.
00:41:35.040
These guys are just winding up on that retribution list.
00:41:38.560
It just doesn't feel like he's raising the bar and elevating the confidence.
00:41:45.620
Let's just say for a second I accept your premise.
00:41:52.640
I mean, again, I don't think ā like I've always felt like at some point we're dealing with this in gerrymandering.
00:42:02.040
Dan Turntine and I in the morning meeting had this long argument about who started it and when.
00:42:07.240
Well, we can go back to Elbridge Gerry and say, okay, it started in Massachusetts and whatever that was, 17-something.
00:42:14.120
But the bottom line is if we're going to claim that what's going on now is bad, then where were all these voices for the last four years?
00:42:21.880
I mean, what happened to Trump in New York in particular is complete and utter BS.
00:42:26.160
Like, no one with a law degree or having ever watched Law and Order could argue what happened to him in New York was fair.
00:42:34.800
That's just ā that was the ultimate weaponization of the digital system.
00:42:40.480
There is no such ā it's the first time this has ever happened.
00:42:45.320
In the case of James Schiff and Cook, they lied on a form to get a lower interest rate.
00:42:52.340
In the case of Cook, she is, by the way, on the board of the Federal Reserve, which oversees interest rates.
00:42:58.240
I mean, this is ā you can't have something more entangled than what she did.
00:43:03.760
Well, I hope we still have due process and I hope those facts are presented and not just asserted on a true social.
00:43:12.500
I hope that we have a system where senators live in the state that they represent.
00:43:18.940
And I don't think anyone listening would disagree that people need to be held to account.
00:43:23.240
And I just think this selective prosecution, you know, is a little dark and a little ominous.
00:43:29.520
And without even, you know, getting back in the merits or demerits of your point about what you perceive happened at the state level in New York and Georgia,
00:43:38.820
what they attempted to do to Trump when he was out of office.
00:43:41.700
But just moving off, just if I may, just because I think, you know, it does beg the question of the Fed.
00:43:50.660
I mean, are we better off with the president of the United States having the ability to change on whims members of the board
00:43:59.600
and have those members get rid of the presidents of the regional bodies?
00:44:03.780
Is that ā are we better off as a nation having a president put their thumb on that scale?
00:44:08.760
I mean, it seems the last time we had a United States president do it was Richard Nixon.
00:44:12.320
It didn't seem to end so well with inflationary pressures in the 70s.
00:44:15.700
People have equated similar actions in places like Argentina and Turkey.
00:44:22.860
Is this just Trump has ā you know, he's not ā are we just ā I'm in a blue bubble.
00:44:29.820
And we have independence of the Fed and I'm just ā but we have corruption at the highest level.
00:44:34.620
And finally he's calling it out on mortgage fraud?
00:44:39.040
You're the Fed in itself and then the overall issue.
00:44:42.500
I don't mean to make it personal, but I am a named plaintiff in a case called Spicer v. Biden that was decided.
00:44:48.180
President Biden fired me from the U.S. Naval Academy board.
00:44:51.760
First time in history, in the history of the United States, that a president has dismissed anyone for no cause.
00:45:02.880
So his vice or vote v. Biden and the Biden administration went to court up through the appeals process arguing that the president of the United States has the absolute authority to fire anyone without ever explaining it, by the way.
00:45:13.700
That is the court ā that is the case law now.
00:45:16.820
When I was fired ā and again, it just wasn't about me.
00:45:20.740
H.R. McMaster, by the way, a West Point grad that had taught at West Point, was scheduled to get the Distinguished Alumni Award that Thursday.
00:45:29.180
So they fired everyone, Air Force, West Point, Naval Academy, for no cause.
00:45:33.840
We went to court, obviously attempting to lose, where we made them argue in the affirmative that the president of the United States has the absolute authority to fire anyone.
00:45:45.860
And again, this is why ā this goes back to the same question you were asking before.
00:45:48.760
When that happened, there was no outrage, none, to say, why are we firing ā by the way, they fired me on like September 8th.
00:45:59.920
They could have named an entire ā I mean, so ā and for no reason, no cause.
00:46:04.520
And the thing was, not one person said, this is not right.
00:46:10.900
In fact, it was the Democratic congressional chairman of the board at the time, Dutch Rutherford, who called me and said, this is ridiculous.
00:46:17.080
Like, I don't know ā I didn't get informed about this.
00:46:20.780
And so then when Trump comes into office, they go, oh, my God, I can't believe he's firing people.
00:46:25.920
When they did this under the Biden administration, no one said a damn thing.
00:46:32.860
Well, when I got fired, there was no cause, no excuse, no reason.
00:46:36.220
When Lisa Cook was fired, it's because she committed mortgage fraud.
00:46:42.800
Now, with respect to the Fed alone, I don't have a problem with the ā again, I am a believer that the president has the authority, as now affirmed by Spicer v. Biden, to decide who he wants to serve.
00:46:54.360
Even the independent Fed, which is held to ā even the Supreme Court has adjudicated the unique standing of the independent Fed, first and second bank, in a recent decision.
00:47:03.580
You think ā well, even if they ā regardless of the merits, you think it's healthy for a democracy that a president ā
00:47:09.440
Well, again, there's a difference between ā in this case, I do believe ā I mean, as I've stated, this isn't like conjecture.
00:47:18.780
The documents are out there for everyone to see.
00:47:22.480
She signed two documents that state in the affirmative that two different states at the same time are her primary residence, neither of which she ever lived in.
00:47:34.220
But just ā I'm talking about just the Fed chairman in this case, even the pressure games, it seems to me.
00:47:40.780
No, but look, go back to the early days of America.
00:47:45.420
The president of the United States has always put pressure on the Fed to do what it wants.
00:47:50.620
This is not a singular ā now, you may think the tactics of President Trump are more vocal,
00:47:54.640
but presidents of the United States have put pressure on the Fed going back to some of our earliest founders.
00:48:04.820
It didn't always go so well, I guess, is more of the objective observation, and that's perhaps ā
00:48:09.780
And the president will be judged ā and President Trump will be judged, as most presidents are, either on safety or the economy.
00:48:17.480
And, you know, it's clear what he wants, a cut in the rate.
00:48:24.980
You're going to get maybe, I think, 25 basis points.
00:48:28.540
He'll claim credit for something that was already going to happen, which is ā
00:48:35.520
And I think, by the way, there's an issue that ā I know you had Charlie Kirk early on in your show that he has been championing,
00:48:40.880
which is the inability of young Americans to have home ownership in their reach.
00:48:48.220
And so part of it is that these interest rates, I think, would be a great thing, not just for, you know, the debt of our country, frankly, but also for home ownership.
00:48:59.660
And look, no, I just don't think politicians should be making monetary policy at our peril, and the professionals should.
00:49:06.580
But all of us are very eager to see that happen.
00:49:09.280
And I think the market's obviously starting to ā you know, they've baked that cake already in anticipation.
00:49:14.720
And so it would be a big surprise and setback if we didn't see that move.
00:49:20.720
Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway.
00:49:23.760
We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapinoe, to the show.
00:49:31.140
We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her fiancƩ, Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire, and more.
00:49:42.560
What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete?
00:49:48.580
I really, really ā like, you just ā you can't replicate.
00:49:53.340
Showing up to the locker room every morning just to s*** talk.
00:49:57.440
We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd.
00:50:04.960
The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two.
00:50:07.720
And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well.
00:50:12.520
So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:50:19.540
Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
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00:50:53.720
Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it?
00:50:56.820
Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship.
00:51:00.400
I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on She Pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers.
00:51:14.400
I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition.
00:51:20.120
Learn how to get comfortable pivoting, because your life is going to be full of them.
00:51:23.540
Every episode gets real about the why behind these changes and gives you the inspiration, and maybe the push, to make your next pivot.
00:51:31.460
Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:51:43.400
I didn't even know you've been a pastor for over 10 years.
00:51:46.120
I think culture is any space that you live in that develops you.
00:51:50.360
On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us podcast, I sat down with Warren Campbell, Grammy-winning producer, pastor, and music executive,
00:51:56.880
to talk about the beats, the business, and the legacy behind some of the biggest names in gospel, R&B, and hip-hop.
00:52:03.320
This is like watching Michael Jackson talk about Thriller before it happened.
00:52:06.000
Was there a particular moment where you realized just how instrumental music culture was to shaping all of our global ecosystem?
00:52:14.340
I was eight years old, and the Motown 25 special came on, and all the great Motown artists, Marvin, Stevie Wonder, Temptations, Diana Ross.
00:52:24.480
From Mary Mary to Jennifer Hudson, we get into the soul of the music and the purpose that drives it.
00:52:29.960
Listen to Culture Raises Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:52:37.400
And I am Scotty Landis, and we host Bananas, the weird news podcast with wonderful guests like Whitney Cummings.
00:52:56.180
We also dig into important life stuff, like why our last names would make the worst hyphen ever.
00:53:02.580
My last name is Cummings. I have sympathy for nobody.
00:53:05.720
Yeah, mine's Brownohler, but with an H, so it looks like Brownohler.
00:53:09.820
Okay, that's, okay, yours might be worse. We can never get married.
00:53:14.140
Listen to this episode with Whitney Cummings, and check out new episodes of Bananas every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network.
00:53:20.780
Listen to Bananas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:53:25.220
Look, moving beyond just sort of the independence of the Fed and the merits or demerits of whether or not you think his influence,
00:53:37.680
this particular Trump's influence, is any greater or lesser than prior administrations.
00:53:43.780
I'm curious just the overall just sense that truth and trust is being frayed.
00:53:51.280
Now, you made a great argument there that I think is important. Democrats, we need to listen.
00:53:55.220
I appreciate you bringing up your own standing in relationship to those firings.
00:53:59.320
And Democrats, many are unfamiliar with the details of that.
00:54:03.160
And to be candid with you, Sean, until I was preparing for this conversation,
00:54:06.820
I wasn't even aware of that, to be able to even have your back and to call that out.
00:54:12.420
It's one of the reasons we started this podcast, because I think it's critical
00:54:15.800
that we have a little grace and understanding of one another in relationship to the fights that we're having.
00:54:21.580
But I've got to be honest, the BLS decision chilled me a little bit.
00:54:29.600
This notion that if we don't like the facts that are being presented,
00:54:32.480
that we just fire the person that's presenting them.
00:54:35.260
And we put someone in who's perhaps suggestive, not as loyal to the facts,
00:54:41.640
but more loyal to the person that's appointing that individual.
00:54:55.380
Well, first, I do think the two subjects that we're discussing, the Fed and BLS,
00:54:59.760
you've got a guy, you've got a D in economics answering both of them.
00:55:02.060
So issues of economics are probably not my strongest wheelhouse.
00:55:08.660
But look, I will say that I asked a bunch of people a similar question,
00:55:12.200
just sort of because I'm familiar with BLS, and I did some work with commerce years ago.
00:55:20.120
But there have been problems from economists and actuaries on both sides
00:55:26.140
who said the way the BLS calculates numbers is wrong, especially the revisions.
00:55:33.560
I think the proof is going to be in the pudding, how he does his job and what we hear about that.
00:55:37.940
But I do think the president has a right to have people serve him.
00:55:42.360
I mean, he is the highest elected person in our country.
00:55:46.940
He has a right to have people serve him to do the work and advance his agenda.
00:55:52.300
Now, the proof will be in the pudding, how EJ does this.
00:55:55.900
There will be plenty of scrutiny on it in terms of the numbers, the revisions, the frequency.
00:56:03.420
And so, look, I think it's healthy to be skeptical, but the proof will be in the pudding and see what he does.
00:56:09.780
For all of the whining, you know, that we've seen a lot of people share about concerns, some of the people that have come to government,
00:56:17.220
they've turned out to be a pretty, pretty adept group of folks getting the agenda moving forward.
00:56:22.060
So I've been extremely proud of President Trump's cabinet and subcabinet.
00:56:27.540
And then, obviously, we'll see how EJ does this as director of BLS, which is, I don't even know, at the subcabinet level.
00:56:35.980
So I'm curious, Justin, I know I'm sensitive to our time.
00:56:39.980
And, you know, as we sort of battle this notion of Fed independence and talk about the issue of just basic data collection and presidential authority,
00:56:50.360
some would suggest overreach, and we can battle that back and forth.
00:56:53.660
But your overall assessment just on what he's doing for the economy,
00:56:59.420
are you pleased that we had a cabinet meeting this week and the commerce secretary said,
00:57:04.960
hey, we may be taking over defense companies or at least investing in defense companies?
00:57:09.200
Are you pleased that we now are getting involved in Silicon Valley and owning 10 percent of Intel?
00:57:14.540
Are you happy that they're doing tithings or set-asides at AMD and NVIDIA 15 percent?
00:57:20.180
Are you pleased that the president's deciding who should be a CEO, shouldn't be,
00:57:25.060
said the Intel CEO should be fired before they decided to take 10 percent of the company
00:57:29.680
or deciding on what logos people should have or not have, cracker barrel?
00:57:38.340
I mean, maybe I know the president weighed in on it, but I don't know.
00:57:42.980
I took credit for it as well as part of my social media.
00:57:47.800
I've been, you know, anyway, I'm coming out with my own crypto soon.
00:57:52.880
First of all, the way you make maps, maybe you're pretty good at the logos too.
00:58:00.620
But honestly, you know, I'm a free enterprise guy.
00:58:03.900
I believe what Churchill said, a healthy horse pulling a sturdy wagon.
00:58:11.640
I don't like people making calls and then getting exemptions on tariffs.
00:58:14.840
I don't like people sending family members out and getting deals before tariffs are even
00:58:22.980
I don't like all the cronyism and corruption that I see is taking shape.
00:58:31.220
Is the Commerce Secretary saying we're going to own a portion of Lockheed?
00:58:38.880
I got to say, it's a little late for you to be coming out criticizing the Bidens, but I
00:58:45.360
Well, if Biden ever tried to take over Intel, I don't recall that.
00:58:58.900
One thing about the companies, the stake in the companies, I get he is a businessman at
00:59:10.760
I do, as a free enterprise guy, what concerns me is the long term, right?
00:59:19.460
I wonder, do you guys buy, do you take a 10% stake in Smith and Wesson and say, hey, you
00:59:27.900
The precedent that it sets does concern me because at some point, you know, there is
00:59:38.480
And what do they do with a stake in a private company?
00:59:41.740
And what do they say and say, well, Trump did it.
00:59:46.120
I will say one of the things that, you know, and Dan Turntine and I've gotten this on the
00:59:50.500
morning meeting is that where I think that there's potentially a balance on this is if
00:59:56.460
the government is going to make an investment in a company.
00:59:59.060
So you're, you know, in the case of defense contractors, you're procuring something.
01:00:02.780
Is there something that the taxpayers should benefit from?
01:00:05.340
In the case of pharma, where all of our financial resources are laying the ground for the research
01:00:11.440
and then a major pharmaceutical company profits off of it tremendously.
01:00:16.260
When we, the taxpayer, our money has been used to sort of till the field.
01:00:22.160
I do think that there is a place for the government, for the taxpayer to reap a benefit.
01:00:26.980
As I said, I got a D in economics, so I'm probably not the best person answering this.
01:00:30.860
I like the way that President Trump approaches it where he's saying, what can we get out of
01:00:35.120
this as a country if we're doing some of the investing?
01:00:37.300
I don't know that I want us voting on, you know, having voting shares in a company.
01:00:42.460
Because let's just say, hypothetically, you have a 10% stake in Intel and B company comes
01:00:48.940
along, is the government going to award contracts to Intel versus another company because it says,
01:00:53.900
hey, we benefit more if we give them the contract.
01:00:56.980
So I do think that there's, you know, I appreciate the President's approach on this as a businessman
01:01:02.620
saying, hey, if we're going to be investing, what do we, the taxpayer, get out of it?
01:01:06.560
I think the actual approach, and I get Secretary Lutnik's comment on defense contracting, but
01:01:13.040
again, I do worry because as somebody who has seen what this sort of consolidation in
01:01:19.640
the defense industrial complex has really hurt our ability to produce enough munitions.
01:01:26.480
And so what, you know, we want to encourage more innovation.
01:01:30.480
If a company says, well, they're going to favor another company because the government
01:01:34.460
owns stakes in it, that will make that difficult.
01:01:37.420
So I'm a little, this, to me, this is going to, how this manifests itself is going to be
01:01:43.620
Because again, I think the short term, I'm concerned about that.
01:01:46.640
And in the long term, I am worried about what another potential Democratic president would
01:01:52.720
What companies do they want to take a stake in?
01:01:54.700
And what, how would they then argue those profits or that company must act to stay in
01:02:03.860
I mean, President Xi has put on a masterclass in China on strategic industries and making
01:02:10.060
sure that there was national ownership and oversight.
01:02:15.180
And you're going to invest in incumbents and not ecosystem and startups.
01:02:19.100
We're going to invest in where the great American economies come, which is through research
01:02:25.440
That means you're basically socializing most of Silicon Valley in these great American
01:02:30.980
Again, I don't, I, I, I, again, I don't know where the balance is.
01:02:35.100
Like, I think somebody should look at this and say, if the American people are going to
01:02:38.360
fund all of the research and then a pharma company comes and takes it, brings it to market
01:02:42.940
and says, now we're going to make billions of dollars off of that.
01:02:45.500
I think the taxpayers should potentially have some role in reaping some benefits on it.
01:02:49.500
But look, when you talk about President Trump, you, bringing back the manufacturing, all
01:02:53.680
of these chips back to America, making sure that we create an incentive for American manufacturing,
01:02:58.240
it kills me post COVID that we have a country that sent us a disease, a virus.
01:03:04.280
And then we then turned back to them and said, hey, by the way, can we buy our PPE and our
01:03:08.280
pharma from you to solve the problem that you started?
01:03:11.000
I think dependent, independence from China has got to be our number one, number two.
01:03:17.180
You must have really been offended by the H2O chip deal with NVIDIA and the 15% set aside
01:03:24.840
That must have, on so many levels, offended the core.
01:03:27.460
Well, it goes back to this point that I was making.
01:03:29.280
What I worry about is the long-term consequences of, in the case of that, you had an export
01:03:35.660
Again, the devil to me is really going to be in the detail and the precedent it sets, because
01:03:39.740
I do worry about how a future president uses this.
01:03:42.300
And that's what concerns me more than anything else, if we start taking stakes in companies,
01:03:47.840
Well, there's a president right now who seems to be on a roll of socializing and nationalizing
01:03:58.840
I'm curious, because you said it, and I don't mean this to be argumentative.
01:04:07.940
Well, you talked, and I spent a lot of time, as you know, in Sacramento, Ronald Reagan's
01:04:16.740
I walk into Ronald Reagan's old office, former governor of California.
01:04:20.880
People revere sort of the fiscal conservatism, the free enterprise, the free market, supply
01:04:29.200
But you said you're conservative, and you're worried.
01:04:44.640
So tell me, give me a program you want to cut, and I'll advocate for it.
01:04:48.380
I mean, that's the job of the people that are in Congress, that are in the majority of
01:04:54.700
And by the way, talking to the wrong person, because governors, we have to balance budgets.
01:05:04.860
The debt and the deficit, to me, is probably up there with China, because it's actually
01:05:15.220
Well, I didn't agree with every way that Doge rolled out some of its stuff, but my God,
01:05:22.160
the idea that we are not looking at our spending in a responsible way is insane.
01:05:28.520
Why did you guys support a bill that is the most insane spending bill in modern American
01:05:34.720
I will tell you, as a guy, I spent a lot of time talking to folks.
01:05:38.660
The proof will be in the pudding, but I have been convinced through some of the models
01:05:43.500
that I've been showing that this will actually reduce the deficit.
01:05:45.920
And you look at what President Trump's done on tariffs, $4 trillion, the CBO says, that
01:05:50.020
we're going to bring in for deficit reduction and debt reduction on the tariffs alone.
01:06:11.500
If you need tickets, Governor, I know Rick Grinnell lives in California.
01:06:18.960
He runs that, runs Recovery in California, Venezuela.
01:06:22.840
Isn't he solving for Kim Jong-un up there too, Rick?
01:06:30.600
Well, I don't know what we solved, but hopefully we solved for at least this, that we all
01:06:37.180
should be solving for the fact that divorce is not an option.
01:06:41.500
We've got to define the terms of our future together.
01:06:44.820
And so I'm really grateful we had this chance to be together today, Sean.
01:06:48.220
And I appreciate what you're doing with Mark and Dan.
01:06:53.720
And I hope people- there's a reason you guys have blown up in the charts.
01:06:58.180
And I think those morning meetings are- I didn't know the origin story.
01:07:01.980
No, you know, the funny thing is, you're the first person that's ever asked.
01:07:13.520
We're back Tuesday after Labor Day, live at 9 a.m. Eastern, 6 a.m. your time, and then
01:07:22.000
And the cool part- I forgot, that's the one cool thing.
01:07:24.020
We take questions for the last 30 minutes from anyone around the world.
01:07:27.160
And literally, we've taken them from everywhere around the world.
01:07:30.880
And it's the one Sean Spicer show that we should all tune in on.
01:07:38.080
Those evening ones, you know, that's a different thing.
01:07:54.320
I'm Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast.
01:07:58.820
I know how overwhelming it can feel if flying makes you anxious.
01:08:02.580
In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal Barnett and I discuss
01:08:09.720
What is not a norm is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you want to
01:08:18.460
Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
01:08:23.940
In sitcoms, when someone has a problem, they just blurt it out and move on.
01:08:29.100
Well, I lost my job and my parakeet is missing.
01:08:37.360
Managing life's challenges can be overwhelming.
01:08:41.960
The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have mental health resources available
01:08:50.580
See how much further you can go when you take care of your mental health.
01:08:55.480
Tune in to All the Smoke podcast, where Matt and Stax sit down with former First Lady
01:09:04.260
And when you get to know people and you're sitting in their kitchen tables and they're
01:09:08.140
talking like we're talking, you know, you hear our story, how we grew up, how Barack
01:09:12.420
grew up, and you get a chance for people to unpack and get beyond race.
01:09:19.260
To hear this podcast and more, open your free iHeartRadio app, search All the Smoke,
01:09:24.620
The U.S. Open is here and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the
01:09:28.660
players, the predictions, the pressure, and of course, the honey deuces, the signature
01:09:35.300
The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very wonderfully experiential sporting event.
01:09:41.020
To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an iHeart Women's Sports
01:09:44.520
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the iHeartRadio app,
01:09:48.500
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:09:50.960
Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.
01:09:55.580
I was diagnosed with cancer on Friday and cancer-free the next Friday.
01:10:00.820
On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us podcast, I sat down with Warren Campbell,
01:10:04.800
Grammy-winning producer, pastor, and music executive, to talk about the beats, the business,
01:10:09.180
and the legacy behind some of the biggest names in gospel, R&B, and hip-hop.
01:10:14.040
Professionally, I started at Death World Records.
01:10:16.100
From Mary Mary to Jennifer Hudson, we get into the soul of the music and the purpose that
01:10:21.960
Listen to Culture Raises Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your