This is Gavin Newsom - And, This Is Sean Spicer On Why He Thinks People Want To Be On Team Trump This Time Around

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00:02:43.960 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:02:47.160 And this is Sean Spicer.

00:02:51.180 You're a sub-stacker now.

00:02:52.620 You're a podcaster.

00:02:53.680 Obviously, you've done some of the networks and continue to be part of that.

00:02:58.000 But what I'm enjoying and where I'm seeing Sean Spicer, my guest here on the Gavin Newsom Show,

00:03:02.980 every morning is on Two Way with Mark Halperin.

00:03:06.240 And you're there battling out, but you're doing it in a civil way that, dare I say,

00:03:13.060 provides almost a civic contribution because of your own unique experiences.

00:03:17.780 Obviously, Mark, Dan, your co-host, tell me how you landed on this new podcast.

00:03:25.620 And where the hell have you been, Sean, over the last few years?

00:03:29.380 Not just on right-wing media, but what else have you been up to?

00:03:33.160 I'll take the former first.

00:03:36.100 I mean, obviously, I left the White House in 2017, did a lot of speaking, wrote a book,

00:03:41.300 which I never thought I'd do.

00:03:42.420 And I don't think any English teacher who had me in high school ever thought that I would

00:03:45.580 write a book, never mind read a book.

00:03:48.440 So I had a lot of fun.

00:03:51.400 And, you know, I grew up in Rhode Island.

00:03:54.920 My dad was a boat, a yacht salesman.

00:03:57.060 And so we had good years, bad years.

00:03:58.920 And, you know, we never, we did well.

00:04:01.040 My parents were amazing.

00:04:02.040 They provided for us.

00:04:04.160 But I, we definitely, we're a middle class at best.

00:04:07.280 And so, like, I got to do things after I left the White House that I still pinch myself sometimes

00:04:12.120 saying, you know, thinking that I got to do.

00:04:13.820 As a kid that grew up, you know, very blessed with how much love and time and attention my

00:04:19.420 parents gave me.

00:04:19.920 But we definitely were not the family with the money in town.

00:04:23.980 And then I landed a gig at Newsmax.

00:04:26.400 I did a show there for a few years.

00:04:28.500 I got an opportunity to go to sort of create my own show, to own the content.

00:04:35.500 And one of the things that has really changed in the landscape is the ability to do your own

00:04:40.120 thing, to own your own landscape.

00:04:41.100 Obviously, you know that now, clearly here.

00:04:44.820 And I've had a lot of friends that were sort of friends and mentors who sort of had gotten

00:04:49.540 into the space and were like, here's the thing.

00:04:51.580 It's, if you're willing to hustle and grow your audience, get sponsors, keep them, you

00:04:58.540 can, you know, you own the content then.

00:05:00.140 It's up to you.

00:05:00.720 So you, the sky's the limit, but it's as much as you're willing to put into it.

00:05:05.020 And I, that's kind of who I, you know, just that, that's, you know, I sold everything

00:05:09.080 when I was a kid.

00:05:09.660 I did greeting cards.

00:05:11.080 I sharpened skis.

00:05:12.640 I sold birthday cakes.

00:05:14.940 I mean, like I did everything to make a buck.

00:05:16.720 My dad, as I said, was a salesman and that was a quality instilled in me early on.

00:05:21.040 So to me, I was like, okay, I'd rather go this route, own my show, own the content, be

00:05:27.500 able to decide who I want to have on, the direction of the show.

00:05:30.700 And then, you know, this kind of segues into the first part of your question.

00:05:34.140 When I left Newsmax, every morning we'd had a morning call, as every network does.

00:05:39.360 And Mark Halperin was at Newsmax.

00:05:41.380 He's been a contributor there.

00:05:42.480 I think he still is.

00:05:44.500 And we would dominate the call.

00:05:47.620 And so they'd get on.

00:05:48.840 And I mean that because the news director would say, hey, Sean, what do you think the Republicans

00:05:52.080 are going to do on this?

00:05:52.980 What do you think?

00:05:53.280 Because it would help shape the reporters and the other hosts when we would talk about

00:05:58.220 Congress.

00:05:58.840 I'd spent, you know, a number of years in Capitol Hill, obviously the White House, the

00:06:02.820 RNC.

00:06:03.440 And so then, and Mark would say, well, my sources are telling me that that's right.

00:06:06.480 Or I've got a couple that say that it's going to work this way.

00:06:08.700 So when I left the White House, I said to Mark, what if we could do, like Mark Halperin,

00:06:13.160 by the way, for those who don't know, invented the note.

00:06:15.940 And so all these morning things that you get in your email every morning, Mark, back when

00:06:21.560 it was at ABC, had a note that he would type up to all of the executives.

00:06:25.240 And they ended up taking that public.

00:06:26.840 And it literally was called The Note.

00:06:28.360 And it was a morning, the first morning tip sheet.

00:06:30.920 And so I said to Mark, what if we actually could do what we do every morning, or we've

00:06:35.000 been doing at Newsmax publicly, and we let people in.

00:06:38.520 And so it started off as a thing called debate prep.

00:06:41.300 In the morning before all of the Republican debates.

00:06:44.300 That's right.

00:06:44.740 We had Scott Walker join us for one of them.

00:06:46.720 We had a couple other candidates.

00:06:48.120 And we would do it, and we would take the questions on YouTube.

00:06:52.060 So I'd weigh in, and I'd say, you know, Bob from San Francisco is asking if he thinks

00:06:57.620 that so-and-so is going to ask this question or whatever.

00:06:59.800 And so huge response to that.

00:07:02.680 And we beta tested what I initially, like I said, I wanted to call it the morning prep

00:07:07.760 or something.

00:07:08.160 And Mark said, what if we call it the morning meeting instead?

00:07:10.760 And then he said, I'm working on this app called Two-Way, where you could actually not

00:07:14.800 read the questions, but we'd be able to take them.

00:07:16.500 And so this thing's just evolved.

00:07:18.720 And I think we're on hiatus this week.

00:07:21.140 We finally took, you know, a week off, which just means I get up a couple minutes later.

00:07:27.260 You still have that addiction.

00:07:28.520 I can't stop reading everything every morning.

00:07:30.660 But anyway, so we, last week, I think we were the number nine podcast in the country.

00:07:36.300 And people loved watching the show because of what you said.

00:07:40.360 We're not there.

00:07:40.920 Dan Turntine was Hillary Clinton's finance director for a campaign.

00:07:44.540 He was Jared Polis, his chief of staff, now governor, then Congressman Polis, who's on

00:07:49.460 the Hill.

00:07:50.240 So he's got the Dem side wired.

00:07:52.340 Mark, obviously, has tremendous sources.

00:07:54.300 And we have a conversation every morning to explain what's happening, not to win the

00:07:58.700 day, right?

00:07:59.240 So I'll gladly say 10 times a day, Dan's got a good point there, what I think the president

00:08:03.460 is trying to do.

00:08:04.560 Our goal, and sometimes the audience doesn't want to hear this, is to explain why something's

00:08:09.700 happening.

00:08:10.520 And that was what we would do, like what morning network calls are, where they say, you

00:08:14.080 know, this story is important because of this, or we think the president's going to

00:08:17.840 make a decision because of this.

00:08:19.160 And that's how this all evolved, was to give people a place to go where if you just want

00:08:24.080 to understand what's happening, not necessarily like win.

00:08:27.340 I feel like I'm sometimes doing color commentary on a game.

00:08:30.760 Like, you know, you can have a team, but you can also say, man, they fumbled that path,

00:08:35.220 you know, they fumbled that play, or he should have been open for that path.

00:08:38.500 You're not, it doesn't make you any less of a fan, but you're kind of critiquing the

00:08:41.660 system and explaining, you know, he should have run right, not left.

00:08:44.580 And so I love doing it because, I mean, I've been in, I did my first race in 1994 in Connecticut,

00:08:51.840 obviously six years at the RNC, 26 years in the military, I think 10 different members

00:08:57.720 of Congress.

00:08:58.100 So I love to, you know, to explain this stuff and to say, this is really what's happening

00:09:02.380 or why this person's doing this to the best of my ability.

00:09:05.880 And Sean, I mean, it contrasts obviously to what's not necessarily happening in many of

00:09:10.620 the networks where it's really about, you know, just putting spokes in the wheel of,

00:09:17.300 you know, the bike of the other party every single morning, or just being a fan boy for

00:09:23.020 whoever's in position of power or influence.

00:09:25.640 I mean, have you just, I mean, I imagine just reflecting, obviously, you know, from

00:09:30.560 the perspective of, you know, the president, Fox News and One American News, Newsmax itself

00:09:35.900 has favored nation status comparatively to MSNBC and CNN and everything.

00:09:41.500 But sincerely, on the basis of what you just described in the work you're doing with Mark

00:09:45.160 and Dan every single morning, I mean, what is your over-under in terms of the health of

00:09:52.540 our democracy in relationship to what appears to be the growing propaganda that's coming

00:09:58.620 from the networks, not necessarily the news coming from the networks?

00:10:02.040 Well, the funny part about this, I got asked a similar question.

00:10:05.760 I spoke to a journalism class in Florida, Florida University several months back.

00:10:11.280 Someone said, well, what do you think about the decline of journalism?

00:10:13.720 And I said, what are you talking about?

00:10:15.100 It's flourishing.

00:10:16.200 I would argue that, in fact, it's much healthier now.

00:10:20.740 So I stream the morning meeting every day on my YouTube page.

00:10:24.200 So from 9 to 10 Eastern, you can listen to Mark, Dan, and Sean talk about the analysis.

00:10:28.840 And then I've got a show, the Sean Spicer show.

00:10:31.120 Took a lot of marketing for that one.

00:10:33.440 Every night, 6 o'clock Eastern on my YouTube channel and across all the other podcasts,

00:10:37.420 where I'm much more red meat.

00:10:39.020 So, you know, to your point about I'm an unabashed, unapologetic Trump supporter.

00:10:44.440 I'm a strong fiscal and social conservative.

00:10:47.060 I'm proud of it.

00:10:48.060 But there's different venues for different things.

00:10:50.180 So in the morning meeting from 9 to 10, I want you to understand the process.

00:10:54.300 I want to explain it to you.

00:10:56.000 And in the evening at 6 o'clock, I'm going to serve up my point of view and tell you why

00:10:59.840 I think that Trump's doing the right thing, why I believe we need a Republican majority,

00:11:03.960 why I think conservative policies are great.

00:11:05.740 There's room for everything.

00:11:07.600 But part of the other thing that, you know, you were touching on, there's various things

00:11:11.340 on the news.

00:11:12.260 Like you've got the fanboy, fangirl.

00:11:14.520 You've got the polarization of stuff.

00:11:17.000 But there's also, to me, what annoys me, and I know you probably have seen this throughout

00:11:20.920 your career, is whether it's a Democrat analyst or what's the other big name on TV, and then

00:11:27.940 the Republicans one where I'm like, dude, who do you consult for?

00:11:31.100 Who do you?

00:11:31.560 I mean, there are people that I'm like, you've never run a race.

00:11:34.100 You've never worked in politics.

00:11:35.200 And this person is a pundit, which again, it's America.

00:11:38.360 You have every right to have your thought.

00:11:39.600 But what I love about what I do is I'm trying to explain to people, look, I've been in the

00:11:44.580 room.

00:11:44.880 I can tell you what it's like to why this decision is getting made or what this person's

00:11:51.560 really like in person, whether you agree with me or not.

00:11:54.380 And I think that's different than watching sometimes people on all of these networks

00:11:58.180 opine with no knowledge of why, how the process works, right?

00:12:03.640 And I tell people every once in a while, when I was the assistant US trade rep, and back

00:12:09.060 in the day, we filed an intellectual property case against China in the World Trade Organization,

00:12:14.140 the WTO.

00:12:15.400 And we were really proud of ourselves for doing it because it was, you know, we're standing

00:12:19.080 up for intellectual property, which is a huge thing that China steals.

00:12:23.100 It was funny, though, because the reaction after the fact was not the excitement that we

00:12:28.460 had anticipated because China's answer was to say, great, we're banning all US movies

00:12:31.920 in China under the guise of cultural reasons.

00:12:34.300 And so sometimes what that taught me and part of the lessons that I can bring to viewers

00:12:38.900 is sometimes decisions aren't as easy as you would think they would be, right?

00:12:42.780 You would think, hey, we're standing up for China.

00:12:44.200 We're standing up for our intellectual property here in America.

00:12:47.600 That should be an easy decision, right?

00:12:49.180 Why wouldn't Governor Newsom do that?

00:12:50.640 Why wouldn't President Trump do that?

00:12:52.260 And then you realize, well, because the industry may not want you to because they may actually

00:12:56.600 lose money on that decision, which would cost Californians or, you know, whoever jobs in

00:13:01.960 America.

00:13:02.920 And so what I love to do is to sometimes say, hey, guys, here's a decision that's being made.

00:13:07.940 I know it seems easy on its face, but let me give you a little bit more context about

00:13:12.500 what's going on in that decision making process.

00:13:15.280 So, I mean, it's interesting that you reflect on this current media environment as much more

00:13:22.820 nuanced and more complex and perhaps open because not only you're platforming different points

00:13:28.900 of you as it relates to more of an objective frame to a more subjective, more partisan frame

00:13:33.400 in different parts of what you're presenting and putting out in content.

00:13:37.100 But there's more content, I guess, is your argument than there's ever been.

00:13:40.620 So if you want to watch MSN, and back when I grew up as a conservative, right, and we're

00:13:46.700 roughly the same age, I'm a little younger, you had three channels in PBS and that was it.

00:13:53.280 And they decided what you read, saw and heard every day between them and sort of your local

00:13:57.640 paper. I love the idea that if you want more of a partisan tinge, you know where to go on

00:14:02.500 either side. If you want straight up news, but also if you really want news on the technology

00:14:07.780 front, there's tons of people putting out blogs and sub stacks and newsletters and YouTube

00:14:13.100 channels on AI. So I like the fact that you have more options now. You get to decide what

00:14:18.680 you want. I mean, and I'm one of those people, I look across the spectrum. I'll read NPR.

00:14:23.640 I'll read some of the stuff in MSNBC. Not a lot. But enough to know what the other side

00:14:29.460 is saying, because I want to know the other argument. But I like the idea that I'm not

00:14:34.080 being spoon fed. You know, when I grew up in Rhode Island, it was the Providence Journal,

00:14:38.380 either you got the morning edition or the evening edition. And that was it. Like there was,

00:14:42.460 if they didn't put it in the paper, it didn't exist. So I like the idea that I can go now find

00:14:47.640 experts on any subject, dive down. I can find objective ones. I can find a variety of subjects.

00:14:54.680 And Sean, what about it finding you, though? What about the algorithms? What about our inability

00:14:58.600 to get out of these networks? I mean, the challenge I think many of us find, once you dial it up,

00:15:06.020 we can get into some of the particular apps. But anyone that's been, for example, on TikTok,

00:15:11.220 I'm wondering when you get to the issues around China and TikTok. But the algorithms are such,

00:15:15.320 you can immediately, with two or three searches, all of a sudden now, you're off in a completely

00:15:20.780 different direction. And now, all of a sudden, it's finding you. It's from search to suggest.

00:15:26.980 Or ultimately, now, the news, you're being blocked out from more of an objective

00:15:31.340 version or vision of the world. I mean, what do you make of that in the context of what's being fed to

00:15:37.560 us, not what we're able to actually discover? Well, clearly, it's a problem, right? I know you just

00:15:43.020 use that as an example, but that's another warning to stay off TikTok, because I think it's-

00:15:47.560 You have strong opinions. Yeah.

00:15:48.640 I have a very, I believe it's a national security threat to our country.

00:15:51.620 What'd you, by the way, what'd you make of Trump then jumping back on TikTok?

00:15:54.960 I'm just, I actually, I get he's trying to do a deal. I get he's trying to do US ownership.

00:15:59.960 And I also understand that right now, there's a lot of kids on it. But that's actually, to me,

00:16:03.780 you know, people ask me all the time, is there an area you disagree with President Trump? And I would

00:16:06.640 say TikTok is up there. There's a couple others. But I do believe it's a threat

00:16:10.780 to not just young people in particular, but to all Americans. What China is doing to gather our

00:16:16.980 information is a national security issue. What they're doing to mold what we, the perceptions

00:16:22.840 that we hold on a variety of subjects is a national security threat. That being said, to your original

00:16:28.080 question, I do think that's a problem, all right? But I also think, again, remember the context in

00:16:33.460 which I started, where how we grew up. You had three channels, and depending on where you lived,

00:16:38.100 one paper, they decided what you saw. And knowing what I know as a conservative, it never came my

00:16:43.700 way. I remember going out in my first couple campaigns, Governor, and we would always get a

00:16:49.140 call from whatever, you know, the local newspaper was of wherever the campaign that I was. And they'd

00:16:54.620 say, hey, the Environmental Working Group just put out a scorecard. Your candidate, because you're a

00:16:59.300 Republican, sucks. And the Democrats, great. And so what is your comment? And I'd say, you know,

00:17:03.640 we care about the environment. We love clean air, clean water, blah, blah, blah. And then I'd call

00:17:07.840 the same reporter back a week later and say, hey, the Chamber of Commerce just put out a scorecard.

00:17:12.300 We're great. The Democrat sucks. And they'd say like, well, that's really not an issue that we

00:17:16.960 think is important. And I'd say, I mean, so which would you rather have? The ability to go out,

00:17:22.280 search for more information, or your local current media outlets deciding that we're only going to show

00:17:28.680 you with certain things. It's kind of the same thing, except now I'm aware of the fact that

00:17:34.080 certain social media outlets and algorithms are going to try to go down rabbit holes. I think

00:17:39.440 informed people know to search further, to search farther, to question what they're hearing and

00:17:45.900 seeing and look for other sources, which is why, you know, I was doing a project the other day on

00:17:50.740 wellness. And I was like, let me just go through Substack and see who some of the big Maha type

00:17:56.200 newsletters are. And it was great because I found people on both sides of issues, pros and cons on

00:18:03.160 a variety of subjects. And I was like, okay, I feel like I'm getting a nice, but yeah, you've got to

00:18:08.860 be careful and cognizant of the fact that you're going to get served up certain things. But I don't

00:18:13.240 know how that's any different than, you know, if you just limited to, you know, if we were in a world

00:18:17.900 that was limited to cable. Yeah, I get it. And speaking of cable, I'm curious, just your assessment.

00:18:22.740 I think every year for the last many years, I don't even remember the last time it wasn't the

00:18:27.340 case, but it seems 14 out of the top 15 most watched cable shows are Fox. I think Rachel

00:18:34.540 Maddow is the one exception. And she's just one day a week on Monday night. I mean, just right wing is

00:18:42.180 dominating the nightly cable networks or cable more broadly. Why do you think that's the case?

00:18:48.240 A couple things. As I said, like when I grew up, like you, we don't, I think it's almost like

00:18:55.740 living in a world where you didn't realize that you, you wonder why issues didn't get attention

00:19:02.380 or covered. And when Fox came along, it filled a void. But if you think about what, what's on your

00:19:08.980 cable dial right now, like with the, I mean, Fox is the 800 pound gorilla, but it's alone. So you've

00:19:14.660 got ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, all sort of focused on, at best, a left of center view of the world.

00:19:24.360 And Fox kind of consolidates the right of center view of the world. And so I think for people who

00:19:30.060 are going there, they, that's, they're, they're tired of getting one perception of the world and

00:19:36.600 the news. And they've all consolidated around Fox. You look at a show like The Five, it's the most

00:19:40.900 popular show, Gutfeld in the evening. But I think part of it is a consolidation of, of viewership,

00:19:47.740 right? So if you, if you look at what they get, there's not a ton of competition on the right.

00:19:52.040 When you look at what's, what's on the cable dial.

00:19:54.600 We saw, I mean, obviously News, News, News Nation, News Max, I mean, obviously trying to,

00:19:59.620 one American news trying to sort of capture some market share.

00:20:02.140 Well, I think just as a side note, because full disclosure, I do contribute to News Nation. That's

00:20:05.820 probably the most straight down the, the middle outlet that's out there. But I would also argue

00:20:11.320 that, you know, cable in itself faces this existential crisis where the average viewer,

00:20:15.700 I think of MSNBC, CNN, even, you know, I think Fox is, is like 69, 70 years old.

00:20:21.320 So part of the reason why I jumped into independent media, why I think this is the future is because,

00:20:27.540 and I'm sure you see this all over when you're out talking to folks, like most people now are

00:20:31.920 cutting the cord, maybe YouTube TV, where they're, you know, kind of still getting traditional

00:20:36.360 outlets. But even so, you're seeing more and more people streaming programs, not watching it as much

00:20:41.860 anymore. I mean, I, there are days, I said to my wife a couple of weeks ago, we were up in Rhode

00:20:46.360 Island, and I was like, God, I can't remember the last time I watched television. You know,

00:20:50.340 because I'm on, not that I'm online, probably more than I should be. But, but I think we've just,

00:20:56.380 we're pushing away from that world as well.

00:20:58.460 It's interesting. What, I am curious, when you came out of the White House, and, you know,

00:21:03.860 for those that wanted to tune in and have me go back to every single Sean Spicer press conference,

00:21:09.520 there's a hundred other channels, a hundred other interviews with Sean that, you know, so I don't,

00:21:14.700 I don't even want to tread on a lot of that. But I am curious, just coming out of the White House,

00:21:19.280 and just being attached to Trump, and trying to be your own person, I imagine. I mean, that said,

00:21:24.240 also taking advantage of that, because there's a lot of doors open up in that Trump world,

00:21:28.780 et cetera. I mean, as, you know, sort of unpacking where we started, as you've been on your own

00:21:33.860 journey as now a podcaster, sub attacker, and consulting, also doing some political consulting

00:21:38.020 work as well on the side. But was that more daunting or more opportunistic than you expected,

00:21:46.220 meaning having that Trump brand on the resume, being that spokesperson for Trump? Did it open more

00:21:52.180 doors or to close more doors for you? It's a great question. Both. So it opened a lot,

00:21:59.700 like I said earlier, like, look, I, I'm blessed by what my parents provided for me and my brother and

00:22:05.260 sister, but like, it was, it was love and support, not, not money and gifts. And so the ability to do

00:22:13.020 things, um, like, I mean, I, I opened the Emmys out, um, in, in your neck of the woods. Uh, I mean,

00:22:21.640 the idea, I mean, listen, I didn't even make my high school, my junior high, uh, uh, Philadelphia

00:22:26.080 trip or something. We didn't have the money to do it. So to be like, Hey, do you want to go open

00:22:29.000 the Emmys? Uh, there were things that I got to do that are mind boggling to me that I, as a kid

00:22:34.780 growing up in Rhode Island, like if I told that to my 18 year old self, um, that you were going to be

00:22:41.300 having these traveling to these places, meeting these people. Um, so yes and no. So what the,

00:22:47.400 the yes part is there's no way in God's earth that I would have done or had the opportunity to

00:22:52.220 do any of the things had it not been for the opportunity that president Trump gave me.

00:22:55.740 That being said, the environment then, and the environment now, I, is night and day. Uh,

00:23:03.080 I was personally attacked. My house was put up for sale on Zillow. Uh, we had cameras outside.

00:23:08.700 We faced all sorts of threats. Um, I, I got attacked in multiple Apple stores. I know

00:23:15.080 there's only one that really got a lot of attention, but there's others, a grocery store.

00:23:19.820 Um, and, and it's, it's, and it's not just me by the way. I mean, I, I've kids, uh, I've

00:23:24.700 tried to keep them out of my public life, but it's not easy when you're with them and you're

00:23:31.020 at dinner and someone's standing outside, giving your family the finger or chanting something

00:23:35.200 and they're asking daddy, why are they doing that? Um, so, you know, like I said, it's

00:23:40.800 both. I got some amazing opportunities that I would have never gotten, but at the same

00:23:44.700 time, there, there, there were places, um, who would say to me, Hey, we, we want to work

00:23:50.560 with you cause we're looking to get some insight in the Trump administration, but can you sign

00:23:54.020 five NDAs and can we run this through like a Swiss shell company? So no one knows that we're

00:23:58.200 actually talking to you. Um, there were plenty of events where we started down a path and

00:24:03.140 then they'd get can, you know, an opportunity would get canceled. Um, it was a lot of like

00:24:08.460 cloak and dagger. Like, we'd love to have you come talk to our board, but you have to come in

00:24:11.540 a back door. No one can know that you're here. Um, people. So the first iteration of Trump was

00:24:17.160 fairly vicious and obviously the Mueller report was going on. People were making all sorts of

00:24:21.320 false allegations. Um, I, so I, I, I will say this, this second term, I mean, it's, it's like

00:24:30.040 a night and day. People are excited to work with you. It's the opposite. They're like,

00:24:34.020 can we promote that we're working with you? Can you talk to us openly about Trump? Um,

00:24:38.160 I think the president 2.0, um, is it's such a different place than he was, uh, in the first

00:24:45.620 term for a variety of reasons. And, and a lot of it was just a learning curve, et cetera. I mean,

00:24:49.120 I'm glad to go into it, but I think there is so much that is different between the first term

00:24:54.700 and the second term. No, I love that. It's a great segue because I wanted to talk about that. I mean,

00:24:58.560 I've, you know, I have my own experience with Trump, obviously as governor for two years,

00:25:02.880 uh, involved in, you know, we were involved as a state with 122 lawsuits with the Trump

00:25:07.760 administration. That said, and you may recall this during COVID, we had a very good working

00:25:12.420 relationship as a democratic governor. Uh, we were constantly on the phone, uh, working through

00:25:17.520 issues. There may have been a lot of noise on true social or Twitter, uh, but we were actually

00:25:22.080 constructive. Uh, but I will acknowledge things are radically different this second term. And I

00:25:28.540 found them to be very different as well. And that's on the basis of a lot of interpersonal

00:25:32.680 engagement, an hour and a half in the Oval Office. I think it was the first democratic governor to spend

00:25:37.580 that kind of time with them in the Oval Office phone calls since, and obviously we're going back

00:25:42.780 and forth now, but I'm curious. I've seen a few of those. You've seen a few. There's,

00:25:46.740 there's a lot of it. I, I, I, I'm wondering how's the, how are, um, hat sales going?

00:25:51.560 By the way, you know, the most extraordinary sales we've ever seen just as our most beautiful maps,

00:25:56.800 uh, that are out there. But I will say, uh, the biggest selling item is that, uh, picture of

00:26:03.260 Tucker Carlson and, uh, the late great Hulk Hogan. And of course, Kid Rock himself, uh, blessing me,

00:26:10.240 which is, uh, limited edition, Sean, if you want to pick up one, I do it now before, by the way,

00:26:15.580 before I put my crypto coin out, which I also think will be a, a hot seller.

00:26:19.800 Well, I didn't want to get ahead of this, but you do know that we're going to tariff all of that.

00:26:24.420 Yes, you are. Well, we'll get to the tariffs in a minute.

00:26:28.320 Get fired up y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of

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00:27:09.880 Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all the guest list is absolutely

00:27:15.380 stacked for season two. And you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and

00:27:19.440 happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with

00:27:23.240 Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:27:28.660 Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

00:27:32.700 I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive.

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00:28:02.120 Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job,

00:28:07.460 a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on She Pivots, I dive into the inspiring

00:28:13.400 pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer. Jodi Sweetin.

00:28:18.840 Annika Patton. Elaine Welteroth. I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I gotta go. I don't know

00:28:24.200 how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting

00:28:30.560 because your life is going to be full of them. Every episode gets real about the why behind these

00:28:35.340 changes and gives you the inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these

00:28:41.240 women and more on She Pivots now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:28:48.780 Culture eats strategy for breakfast. I would love for you to share your breakdown on pivoting. We feel

00:28:56.300 sometimes like we're leaving a part of us behind when we enter a new space, but we're just building.

00:29:01.820 On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Valisha Butterfield, media founder,

00:29:06.780 political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling,

00:29:11.660 impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership.

00:29:14.220 I am a free Black woman who worked really hard to be able to say that.

00:29:20.380 I'd love for you to break down why it was so important for you to do seed.

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00:29:26.620 From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys,

00:29:29.020 Valisha's journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change.

00:29:32.960 A very fake, capital-driven environment and society will have a lot of people tell half-truths.

00:29:39.660 I'm telling you, I'm on the energy committee. Like, if the energy's not right, we're not doing it,

00:29:45.920 whatever that it is. Listen to Culture Raises Us on the iHeartRadio app,

00:29:49.480 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:29:51.440 Hi, I'm Kurt Braunohler.

00:29:54.560 And I am Scotty Landis, and we host Bananas, the weird news podcast with wonderful guests

00:29:59.540 like Whitney Cummings.

00:30:00.820 And tackle the truly tough questions.

00:30:03.360 Why is cool mom an insult, but mom is fine?

00:30:07.020 No. I always say cool, Kurt's a fun dad.

00:30:10.840 Fun dad and cool mom, that's cool for me.

00:30:13.320 We also dig into important life stuff, like why our last names would make the worst hyphen ever.

00:30:19.720 My last name is Cummings. I have sympathy for nobody.

00:30:22.860 Yeah, mine's Brownohler, but with an H, so it looks like Brownohler.

00:30:26.960 Okay, that's, okay, yours might be worse. We can never get married.

00:30:30.280 Yeah.

00:30:31.280 Listen to this episode with Whitney Cummings, and check out new episodes of Bananas

00:30:35.000 every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network.

00:30:37.920 Listen to Bananas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:30:42.360 But look, Trump 1.0, 2.0, I've heard you talk a lot about it, and you've talked about the discipline.

00:30:52.840 You've talked about the fact that this is a more prepared second-term presidency,

00:30:56.680 that people around them are more prepared.

00:30:58.580 They're more, quote-unquote, professional, from Susie Wiles as chief of staff to what they're doing at the OMB.

00:31:04.140 They had a playbook. They're executing on it.

00:31:06.540 But they're unified, a word you often, I hear, use.

00:31:10.540 Give us a sense, I mean, you know, without going too deep into the well of what was wrong in that first term.

00:31:16.540 Do you maintain that as we sit here in month seven, going into month eight,

00:31:21.120 that this is a well-oiled machine and that he's excelling in terms of advancing his stated goals?

00:31:29.800 Oh, absolutely. Look, so I'll just start with this.

00:31:32.140 If you are a supporter of President Trump and the America First agenda, which I proudly am,

00:31:36.540 the amount of accomplishments I don't think is questionable.

00:31:41.820 Like, you look at what he has done on trade, what he has done on taxes,

00:31:48.100 what he has done on the border, what he has done on the Make America Healthy Again movement.

00:31:51.900 Like, check, check, check.

00:31:53.340 Now, you may not, now, one may not agree with that.

00:31:55.820 But I would argue, as, I love watching these cabinet meetings,

00:31:58.980 and I know some people have issues with them, but I feel like everyone's getting called to account.

00:32:04.340 Like, everybody has to list off, what did you do?

00:32:06.360 And there's one every 30 days.

00:32:07.720 So, you know, when I was in college, I hid in the back row, tried to make sure I didn't get called on.

00:32:12.140 Now, if you look at a Trump meeting, you hear from every single one of those folks,

00:32:15.820 what have you gotten done in the last 30 days?

00:32:18.020 And I mean, Sean Duffy at the Department of Transportation, looking at our air traffic control systems,

00:32:23.640 what we're doing to keep our highways safe with CDL licensing.

00:32:27.920 Everyone's got something to say.

00:32:29.180 I love it.

00:32:29.780 Lee Zeldin talking about the environment, what they're doing to help reduce the regulatory burden on small businesses.

00:32:35.640 So, again, if you're maybe some folks on your side of the aisle party, you may not agree,

00:32:39.880 but I would think that regardless of where you are, you've got to admit that he's got a lot done.

00:32:44.320 And Sean, just on that, I'm curious, and forgive me, I do want you to continue to expand on the point,

00:32:49.220 but also you hear at those cabinet meetings, I mean, there's a lot of dear leader vibe.

00:32:56.180 I mean, every single one of those folks starts out with this sort of unctuous compliments.

00:33:02.920 Is that, I mean, honestly, does that, do you cringe about that?

00:33:06.560 Or you think that's also part of the charm or part of, I mean, what do you make of that?

00:33:12.140 I mean, yesterday's cabinet meeting was extraordinary in that respect.

00:33:16.020 No?

00:33:16.520 Here's what I'll say.

00:33:17.260 I think delivery matters.

00:33:19.560 Some people pull it off better than others.

00:33:22.160 But I think that, look, the president deserves credit for the people he's picking and the ability to allow them to do that.

00:33:28.560 Now, how some of them choose to express their gratitude, again, I think delivery matters.

00:33:34.740 But I get it.

00:33:36.380 It's part of the, I don't know.

00:33:38.680 I sort of personally, like I said, if you heard what I said, I love the focus on results.

00:33:44.280 Like, so, no one can get up there and just BS and say, dear Mr. President, I love you.

00:33:49.340 You're amazing.

00:33:50.540 And, okay, who's next?

00:33:52.280 They have to then go into, what did you get done?

00:33:54.660 And I am a believer, as someone who's been a commanding officer, who has been in charge of groups and organizations.

00:34:01.080 Like, I don't, the fluff, great, say it, but then get to what you did.

00:34:04.940 I want results.

00:34:06.260 And I like the fact that you can't hide.

00:34:09.300 Yes, you might start off by saying something very laudatory, but at the end of the day, you have to get to, what did I do to deliver for the American people?

00:34:15.980 And that goes into what I believe is different.

00:34:18.800 There's three things, the people, the process, and the policies.

00:34:21.760 And, look, when we got brought into Trump 1, and, again, he's not a politician.

00:34:26.520 The guy was picking people, some of them he knew, some of them he didn't, and people would recommend him.

00:34:32.180 I think the best person to be the ambassador to, you know, France is so-and-so.

00:34:36.540 I think that so-and-so would be great for the Department of the Interior.

00:34:40.560 And he would trust people.

00:34:41.980 Great.

00:34:42.260 You think that person's good?

00:34:43.240 Okay.

00:34:43.640 I know you.

00:34:44.440 You think they're great.

00:34:45.980 I was in the room plenty of times where those conversations occurred.

00:34:48.720 I don't think every single person, in fact, a lot of them, did not come in for the right reasons, meaning they weren't coming in to advance his agenda.

00:34:55.600 In some cases, they were coming in to advance their own or to actually stand in the way of it and to oppose it.

00:35:02.740 This time, what the media gets wrong about the people in the room, in his cabinet in particular, in the subcabinet, and this is where, again, they just say, oh, they're all loyal.

00:35:14.760 A dog is loyal.

00:35:15.660 A dog is loyal.

00:35:15.920 My dog is loyal.

00:35:16.800 It's sitting right there.

00:35:17.960 And she will follow me everywhere.

00:35:20.340 But that's great.

00:35:21.300 That doesn't do anything.

00:35:22.200 Every one of these people, from the Secretary of Defense to the Attorney General to the Secretary of Treasury and Commerce, is a doer.

00:35:28.600 They're getting things done.

00:35:29.480 They're a disruptor.

00:35:30.420 And that's what they're missing.

00:35:31.520 Anyone can be loyal.

00:35:32.720 That doesn't mean you're getting things done.

00:35:34.300 So the people are vastly different.

00:35:36.000 And then the policies, they know, four years out of office, I always tell people, it's like when you, if you grew up playing a team sport and you play the same team later in the season, your coach will likely say, remember, they came up strong on the right and we didn't block them well.

00:35:52.260 So we got to prevent that.

00:35:53.840 Four years out of office has allowed these guys to think through how to get things done properly, what the opposition force is going to look like.

00:36:02.320 And I keep contrasting the sort of the firing of Lisa Cook at the Fed this week with how we handled Comey.

00:36:10.780 When we fired Comey, the president called me into the Oval and said, Sean, put out a statement.

00:36:14.980 We're firing Jim Comey.

00:36:16.140 And I literally sat there and said, Mr. President, we need to inform congressional leaders.

00:36:19.540 We need to do this, da, da, da, because I just had been around, you know, long enough.

00:36:23.460 I was like, here's what's going to, I'm going to get asked as press secretary.

00:36:26.220 I'm going to get asked, did you inform, you know, Leader Schumer?

00:36:29.080 Did you call the Speaker of the House?

00:36:30.360 Did you do this?

00:36:30.920 And I said, so we just need to go through some of these processes.

00:36:33.860 But admittedly, you know, it was not probably done the best in terms of rollout.

00:36:40.680 I think how they've handled things like that between the policies and the personnel rollout, they get the process a lot more now.

00:36:48.280 Are you arguing that what they're doing with Cook is a better process in that respect?

00:36:52.340 Oh, absolutely.

00:36:53.160 Meaning that she's guilty of something without due process and she should be removed?

00:36:58.840 I don't know if she's guilty or not.

00:37:00.920 But that's not what the law says.

00:37:02.860 The Federal Reserve Act of 1913, Section 10, says that the president has the ability to remove anyone for cause.

00:37:09.460 Now, you've been a governor, a mayor.

00:37:11.920 Like, you've let people go, I'm sure, at some point, and not because they were guilty of something or were convicted in a court of law.

00:37:19.040 You said, hey, Susie, you've shown up five days late for work.

00:37:22.460 You're not getting it done.

00:37:23.540 You don't represent me well.

00:37:24.660 You're a nuisance.

00:37:26.800 This woman signed documents that are public that she declared her primary home in two residents.

00:37:33.420 That's mortgage fraud.

00:37:34.680 Now, whether she gets convicted or not, an employer, I've had to fire people before.

00:37:39.380 None of them were convicted of anything.

00:37:42.540 In fact, a lot of times it's like, hey, we're going to let you go so that, you know.

00:37:46.380 And, Sean, just on – no, and I appreciate that.

00:37:48.940 And it certainly is – the frame is for cause.

00:37:52.220 But you don't find anything curious about that coincidental that Adam Schiff and Tish James have the same accusations, and they're just sort of coincidental.

00:38:02.760 And Paxton, who's got accusations against him in Texas, there's been no consideration and criteria for a similar investigation.

00:38:12.500 This is just professionalism at the highest levels of the Trump administration, weeding out corruption, and they just happen to fall on these three people coincidentally?

00:38:23.340 Well, again, first of all, like it's not – like Adam Schiff, Tish James – I mean, you're his governor.

00:38:28.760 I think that's not just a mortgage fraud issue, but it's an electoral problem.

00:38:32.760 The guy by the Constitution is required to live in your state.

00:38:36.000 He has signed a document saying that Maryland is his primary residence.

00:38:39.480 You should probably be entitled to a senator that represents California and lives there.

00:38:43.920 So I would argue that this is probably more of your problem.

00:38:46.880 By the way, Sean, I'm trying to go to an event where Schiff has not already left because he was there before I was there.

00:38:52.860 I did look at that this morning, and I thought this is going to be interesting.

00:38:56.500 But I'm just saying it's up to you.

00:38:57.960 But honestly, I mean, you can't in good conscience say that's just – I mean, this is just a professionally well-ordered machine doing everything right.

00:39:05.700 And these three people just coincidentally.

00:39:07.620 Just contrast.

00:39:08.780 I'm just – honestly.

00:39:09.800 Come on.

00:39:10.140 There's two things.

00:39:10.980 Number one, contrast.

00:39:12.320 Paxton?

00:39:12.920 One – I honest to God, and I say this like in all honesty because I don't – I'm not – I know that there's some issues that have brought up with the attorney general.

00:39:21.700 I didn't know about the mortgage fraud, to be honest with you.

00:39:23.640 Maybe that – so if that's true, I'd be willing to look at it.

00:39:27.740 But I would also say two things.

00:39:29.580 One, the first question was, was the process different than the first term?

00:39:33.100 And as I said with Comey, they did – we just fired him, announced it like you're gone, and then built the plane in midair to explain why later.

00:39:41.860 With Cook, they made the predicate very clear.

00:39:45.540 She did this.

00:39:46.680 Here are the receipts.

00:39:47.720 That is a much better process, right?

00:39:49.780 So I – as a consumer of the news and as a citizen, I go, okay, I know what you're accused of.

00:39:55.640 If that's cause, and which I believe a judge would argue is cause, because again, it doesn't mean you have to be guilty of it, which I actually – from what I can see, I'm no judge.

00:40:04.120 I haven't been to law school.

00:40:04.820 But I would say that if you sign two pieces of paper claiming two different states are your primary residence to get a lower interest rate, neither one that you've actually lived in and used for rental purposes.

00:40:14.980 I have a rental property.

00:40:16.520 I didn't get a – I had to get the higher interest rate and a bigger down payment because it – I wasn't going to lie on a form.

00:40:23.140 But it's – and electorally, it's also a lie.

00:40:26.500 Like, as I said, I mean, Tish James had a property here in my state of Virginia saying – and she's the New York Attorney General claiming that Virginia is her primary residence.

00:40:34.840 That's a problem.

00:40:36.460 And so – and let me just say this, Governor.

00:40:38.620 The one last thing is I would say – and this is why after watching the four years of what they did to Trump, especially, especially in New York, claiming that misdemeanors, bookkeeping misdemeanors that passed the statute of limitations somehow all roll up into a fake felony and then telling the jury, you don't even need to come up with a crime.

00:40:57.460 Just convict the guy.

00:40:58.720 And then we've actually got receipts on these folks.

00:41:01.960 I don't know the case.

00:41:02.800 I mean, you know, one could argue that with selective prosecution, I think any objective observer would have to maintain these three cases seem to be rather selective and curious.

00:41:15.800 And I guess the deeper problem that I have – and I appreciate your framework around this being a better process than Comey, and I do appreciate your framework on that.

00:41:24.960 But this idea that it's better because the DOJ is now being weaponized in a very overt way, perhaps – I mean, Pam's standing right behind the president.

00:41:35.040 These guys are just winding up on that retribution list.

00:41:38.560 It just doesn't feel like he's raising the bar and elevating the confidence.

00:41:45.620 Let's just say for a second I accept your premise.

00:41:47.820 It's all retribution.

00:41:48.860 If I accept that premise, I just – okay.

00:41:52.640 I mean, again, I don't think – like I've always felt like at some point we're dealing with this in gerrymandering.

00:41:59.020 At what point does it stop?

00:42:00.700 Okay.

00:42:00.920 Who started it?

00:42:02.040 Dan Turntine and I in the morning meeting had this long argument about who started it and when.

00:42:06.880 Okay.

00:42:07.240 Well, we can go back to Elbridge Gerry and say, okay, it started in Massachusetts and whatever that was, 17-something.

00:42:14.120 But the bottom line is if we're going to claim that what's going on now is bad, then where were all these voices for the last four years?

00:42:21.880 I mean, what happened to Trump in New York in particular is complete and utter BS.

00:42:26.160 Like, no one with a law degree or having ever watched Law and Order could argue what happened to him in New York was fair.

00:42:34.800 That's just – that was the ultimate weaponization of the digital system.

00:42:38.340 The misdemeanors were expired.

00:42:40.480 There is no such – it's the first time this has ever happened.

00:42:42.540 There was no crime.

00:42:44.040 He paid the mortgage back.

00:42:45.320 In the case of James Schiff and Cook, they lied on a form to get a lower interest rate.

00:42:52.340 In the case of Cook, she is, by the way, on the board of the Federal Reserve, which oversees interest rates.

00:42:58.240 I mean, this is – you can't have something more entangled than what she did.

00:43:03.760 Well, I hope we still have due process and I hope those facts are presented and not just asserted on a true social.

00:43:09.860 But I would – it begs the question.

00:43:12.500 I hope that we have a system where senators live in the state that they represent.

00:43:18.940 And I don't think anyone listening would disagree that people need to be held to account.

00:43:23.240 And I just think this selective prosecution, you know, is a little dark and a little ominous.

00:43:29.520 And without even, you know, getting back in the merits or demerits of your point about what you perceive happened at the state level in New York and Georgia,

00:43:38.820 what they attempted to do to Trump when he was out of office.

00:43:41.700 But just moving off, just if I may, just because I think, you know, it does beg the question of the Fed.

00:43:50.660 I mean, are we better off with the president of the United States having the ability to change on whims members of the board

00:43:59.600 and have those members get rid of the presidents of the regional bodies?

00:44:03.780 Is that – are we better off as a nation having a president put their thumb on that scale?

00:44:08.760 I mean, it seems the last time we had a United States president do it was Richard Nixon.

00:44:12.320 It didn't seem to end so well with inflationary pressures in the 70s.

00:44:15.700 People have equated similar actions in places like Argentina and Turkey.

00:44:20.960 Are those fair, unfair?

00:44:22.860 Is this just Trump has – you know, he's not – are we just – I'm in a blue bubble.

00:44:28.400 Am I just making all this up?

00:44:29.820 And we have independence of the Fed and I'm just – but we have corruption at the highest level.

00:44:34.620 And finally he's calling it out on mortgage fraud?

00:44:36.780 Well, I think there's two separate issues.

00:44:39.040 You're the Fed in itself and then the overall issue.

00:44:42.500 I don't mean to make it personal, but I am a named plaintiff in a case called Spicer v. Biden that was decided.

00:44:48.180 President Biden fired me from the U.S. Naval Academy board.

00:44:51.340 That's right.

00:44:51.760 First time in history, in the history of the United States, that a president has dismissed anyone for no cause.

00:44:59.520 Was Russ Voigt part of that as well?

00:45:01.520 He was.

00:45:01.760 It was a few of you, right?

00:45:02.740 Yeah.

00:45:02.880 So his vice or vote v. Biden and the Biden administration went to court up through the appeals process arguing that the president of the United States has the absolute authority to fire anyone without ever explaining it, by the way.

00:45:13.700 That is the court – that is the case law now.

00:45:16.260 Okay.

00:45:16.820 When I was fired – and again, it just wasn't about me.

00:45:19.320 He fired every service academy.

00:45:20.740 H.R. McMaster, by the way, a West Point grad that had taught at West Point, was scheduled to get the Distinguished Alumni Award that Thursday.

00:45:26.980 They fired us on a Tuesday.

00:45:28.740 Okay.

00:45:29.180 So they fired everyone, Air Force, West Point, Naval Academy, for no cause.

00:45:33.840 We went to court, obviously attempting to lose, where we made them argue in the affirmative that the president of the United States has the absolute authority to fire anyone.

00:45:44.820 They did that.

00:45:45.860 And again, this is why – this goes back to the same question you were asking before.

00:45:48.760 When that happened, there was no outrage, none, to say, why are we firing – by the way, they fired me on like September 8th.

00:45:56.300 My board – my term expired 60 days later.

00:45:59.920 They could have named an entire – I mean, so – and for no reason, no cause.

00:46:04.520 And the thing was, not one person said, this is not right.

00:46:09.060 This is ridiculous.

00:46:09.940 It's never happened.

00:46:10.900 In fact, it was the Democratic congressional chairman of the board at the time, Dutch Rutherford, who called me and said, this is ridiculous.

00:46:17.080 Like, I don't know – I didn't get informed about this.

00:46:19.380 They didn't explain why.

00:46:20.780 And so then when Trump comes into office, they go, oh, my God, I can't believe he's firing people.

00:46:25.160 I'm sorry.

00:46:25.920 When they did this under the Biden administration, no one said a damn thing.

00:46:30.460 And then it goes, well, but this is different.

00:46:32.860 Well, when I got fired, there was no cause, no excuse, no reason.

00:46:36.220 When Lisa Cook was fired, it's because she committed mortgage fraud.

00:46:40.200 And everyone goes, oh, this is unbelievable.

00:46:42.320 It's the Fed.

00:46:42.800 Now, with respect to the Fed alone, I don't have a problem with the – again, I am a believer that the president has the authority, as now affirmed by Spicer v. Biden, to decide who he wants to serve.

00:46:54.360 Even the independent Fed, which is held to – even the Supreme Court has adjudicated the unique standing of the independent Fed, first and second bank, in a recent decision.

00:47:03.580 You think – well, even if they – regardless of the merits, you think it's healthy for a democracy that a president –

00:47:09.440 Well, again, there's a difference between – in this case, I do believe – I mean, as I've stated, this isn't like conjecture.

00:47:18.780 The documents are out there for everyone to see.

00:47:20.900 She committed mortgage fraud.

00:47:22.480 She signed two documents that state in the affirmative that two different states at the same time are her primary residence, neither of which she ever lived in.

00:47:29.420 She used them both for rental.

00:47:30.360 That is fraud.

00:47:31.440 No, I appreciate it, Sean, on that.

00:47:34.220 But just – I'm talking about just the Fed chairman in this case, even the pressure games, it seems to me.

00:47:40.780 No, but look, go back to the early days of America.

00:47:45.420 The president of the United States has always put pressure on the Fed to do what it wants.

00:47:50.620 This is not a singular – now, you may think the tactics of President Trump are more vocal,

00:47:54.640 but presidents of the United States have put pressure on the Fed going back to some of our earliest founders.

00:48:03.360 There's no doubt about that.

00:48:04.820 It didn't always go so well, I guess, is more of the objective observation, and that's perhaps –

00:48:09.780 And the president will be judged – and President Trump will be judged, as most presidents are, either on safety or the economy.

00:48:17.480 And, you know, it's clear what he wants, a cut in the rate.

00:48:21.220 I think that's – frankly, for –

00:48:22.660 It's going to happen regardless.

00:48:24.140 It was already going to happen.

00:48:24.980 You're going to get maybe, I think, 25 basis points.

00:48:27.120 But the bottom line is –

00:48:28.540 He'll claim credit for something that was already going to happen, which is –

00:48:31.620 Well, maybe not.

00:48:32.840 I don't know that he'll claim credit at 25.

00:48:34.480 He wants way more than that.

00:48:35.520 And I think, by the way, there's an issue that – I know you had Charlie Kirk early on in your show that he has been championing,

00:48:40.880 which is the inability of young Americans to have home ownership in their reach.

00:48:46.800 And I think, again –

00:48:48.220 And so part of it is that these interest rates, I think, would be a great thing, not just for, you know, the debt of our country, frankly, but also for home ownership.

00:48:58.100 I could agree more in that respect.

00:48:59.660 And look, no, I just don't think politicians should be making monetary policy at our peril, and the professionals should.

00:49:06.580 But all of us are very eager to see that happen.

00:49:09.280 And I think the market's obviously starting to – you know, they've baked that cake already in anticipation.

00:49:14.720 And so it would be a big surprise and setback if we didn't see that move.

00:49:18.620 But get fired up, y'all.

00:49:20.720 Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway.

00:49:23.760 We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapinoe, to the show.

00:49:30.180 And we had a blast.

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00:49:42.560 What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete?

00:49:44.800 The final.

00:49:46.020 The final.

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00:50:04.960 The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two.

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00:50:12.520 So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:50:19.540 Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

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00:50:53.720 Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it?

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00:51:00.400 I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on She Pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers.

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00:51:14.400 I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition.

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00:51:31.460 Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:51:39.420 I don't write songs.

00:51:41.040 God writes songs.

00:51:42.180 I take dictation.

00:51:43.400 I didn't even know you've been a pastor for over 10 years.

00:51:46.120 I think culture is any space that you live in that develops you.

00:51:50.360 On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us podcast, I sat down with Warren Campbell, Grammy-winning producer, pastor, and music executive,

00:51:56.880 to talk about the beats, the business, and the legacy behind some of the biggest names in gospel, R&B, and hip-hop.

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00:52:29.960 Listen to Culture Raises Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:52:34.580 Hi, I'm Kurt Braunohler.

00:52:37.400 And I am Scotty Landis, and we host Bananas, the weird news podcast with wonderful guests like Whitney Cummings.

00:52:43.660 And tackle the truly tough questions.

00:52:46.220 Why is cool mom an insult, but mom is fine?

00:52:49.880 No. I always say cool. Kurt's a fun dad.

00:52:53.720 Fun dad and cool mom. That's cool for me.

00:52:56.180 We also dig into important life stuff, like why our last names would make the worst hyphen ever.

00:53:02.580 My last name is Cummings. I have sympathy for nobody.

00:53:05.720 Yeah, mine's Brownohler, but with an H, so it looks like Brownohler.

00:53:09.820 Okay, that's, okay, yours might be worse. We can never get married.

00:53:13.140 Yeah.

00:53:14.140 Listen to this episode with Whitney Cummings, and check out new episodes of Bananas every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network.

00:53:20.780 Listen to Bananas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:53:25.220 Look, moving beyond just sort of the independence of the Fed and the merits or demerits of whether or not you think his influence,

00:53:37.680 this particular Trump's influence, is any greater or lesser than prior administrations.

00:53:43.780 I'm curious just the overall just sense that truth and trust is being frayed.

00:53:51.280 Now, you made a great argument there that I think is important. Democrats, we need to listen.

00:53:55.220 I appreciate you bringing up your own standing in relationship to those firings.

00:53:59.320 And Democrats, many are unfamiliar with the details of that.

00:54:03.160 And to be candid with you, Sean, until I was preparing for this conversation,

00:54:06.820 I wasn't even aware of that, to be able to even have your back and to call that out.

00:54:11.500 And I think it's important.

00:54:12.420 It's one of the reasons we started this podcast, because I think it's critical

00:54:15.800 that we have a little grace and understanding of one another in relationship to the fights that we're having.

00:54:21.580 But I've got to be honest, the BLS decision chilled me a little bit.

00:54:26.760 And it chilled a lot of objective observers.

00:54:29.600 This notion that if we don't like the facts that are being presented,

00:54:32.480 that we just fire the person that's presenting them.

00:54:35.260 And we put someone in who's perhaps suggestive, not as loyal to the facts,

00:54:41.640 but more loyal to the person that's appointing that individual.

00:54:44.740 I mean, what was your sense of that decision?

00:54:47.540 Do you feel comfortable with that?

00:54:49.140 Is that elevating things?

00:54:50.520 Or am I, again, just maybe over reading this?

00:54:53.320 And that's typical.

00:54:55.380 Well, first, I do think the two subjects that we're discussing, the Fed and BLS,

00:54:59.760 you've got a guy, you've got a D in economics answering both of them.

00:55:02.060 So issues of economics are probably not my strongest wheelhouse.

00:55:08.660 But look, I will say that I asked a bunch of people a similar question,

00:55:12.200 just sort of because I'm familiar with BLS, and I did some work with commerce years ago.

00:55:20.120 But there have been problems from economists and actuaries on both sides

00:55:26.140 who said the way the BLS calculates numbers is wrong, especially the revisions.

00:55:30.400 So I know EJ not well.

00:55:33.560 I think the proof is going to be in the pudding, how he does his job and what we hear about that.

00:55:37.940 But I do think the president has a right to have people serve him.

00:55:42.360 I mean, he is the highest elected person in our country.

00:55:46.940 He has a right to have people serve him to do the work and advance his agenda.

00:55:52.300 Now, the proof will be in the pudding, how EJ does this.

00:55:55.900 There will be plenty of scrutiny on it in terms of the numbers, the revisions, the frequency.

00:56:02.580 So we'll see.

00:56:03.420 And so, look, I think it's healthy to be skeptical, but the proof will be in the pudding and see what he does.

00:56:09.780 For all of the whining, you know, that we've seen a lot of people share about concerns, some of the people that have come to government,

00:56:17.220 they've turned out to be a pretty, pretty adept group of folks getting the agenda moving forward.

00:56:22.060 So I've been extremely proud of President Trump's cabinet and subcabinet.

00:56:27.540 And then, obviously, we'll see how EJ does this as director of BLS, which is, I don't even know, at the subcabinet level.

00:56:35.380 Yeah.

00:56:35.980 So I'm curious, Justin, I know I'm sensitive to our time.

00:56:39.980 And, you know, as we sort of battle this notion of Fed independence and talk about the issue of just basic data collection and presidential authority,

00:56:50.360 some would suggest overreach, and we can battle that back and forth.

00:56:53.660 But your overall assessment just on what he's doing for the economy,

00:56:59.420 are you pleased that we had a cabinet meeting this week and the commerce secretary said,

00:57:04.960 hey, we may be taking over defense companies or at least investing in defense companies?

00:57:09.200 Are you pleased that we now are getting involved in Silicon Valley and owning 10 percent of Intel?

00:57:14.540 Are you happy that they're doing tithings or set-asides at AMD and NVIDIA 15 percent?

00:57:20.180 Are you pleased that the president's deciding who should be a CEO, shouldn't be,

00:57:25.060 said the Intel CEO should be fired before they decided to take 10 percent of the company

00:57:29.680 or deciding on what logos people should have or not have, cracker barrel?

00:57:34.140 I mean, is this capitalism?

00:57:36.480 I don't know that decision.

00:57:38.340 I mean, maybe I know the president weighed in on it, but I don't know.

00:57:41.860 You seem to take credit.

00:57:42.980 I took credit for it as well as part of my social media.

00:57:45.940 Of course I did.

00:57:46.720 You've checked that out.

00:57:47.800 I've been, you know, anyway, I'm coming out with my own crypto soon.

00:57:52.880 First of all, the way you make maps, maybe you're pretty good at the logos too.

00:57:56.360 I don't know.

00:57:56.760 Christopher Columbus didn't make better maps.

00:57:58.640 I know, I wasn't going to go there.

00:58:00.620 But honestly, you know, I'm a free enterprise guy.

00:58:03.360 Yeah, wow.

00:58:03.900 I believe what Churchill said, a healthy horse pulling a sturdy wagon.

00:58:07.440 I don't like crony capitalism.

00:58:08.840 I don't like corruption.

00:58:10.040 I don't like backroom deals.

00:58:11.640 I don't like people making calls and then getting exemptions on tariffs.

00:58:14.840 I don't like people sending family members out and getting deals before tariffs are even

00:58:19.060 negotiated.

00:58:19.820 I get a little nervous about this.

00:58:21.740 I don't like the crypto stuff.

00:58:22.980 I don't like all the cronyism and corruption that I see is taking shape.

00:58:27.400 I don't like a Democrats or Republicans.

00:58:28.820 But is this normal?

00:58:31.220 Is the Commerce Secretary saying we're going to own a portion of Lockheed?

00:58:34.860 Is that what we signed up for?

00:58:36.700 Is that what Meg is for?

00:58:38.120 You're a conservative.

00:58:38.880 I got to say, it's a little late for you to be coming out criticizing the Bidens, but I

00:58:43.740 appreciate it.

00:58:44.840 It's good.

00:58:45.360 Well, if Biden ever tried to take over Intel, I don't recall that.

00:58:48.480 I don't know that he could have.

00:58:49.820 I don't recall him picking logos.

00:58:50.920 No, I don't remember.

00:58:52.760 Honestly, I don't remember any of that.

00:58:56.000 But is this good for American capitalism?

00:58:58.900 One thing about the companies, the stake in the companies, I get he is a businessman at

00:59:05.960 heart and I get what he's trying to do, right?

00:59:07.780 Because America owns these shares.

00:59:10.760 I do, as a free enterprise guy, what concerns me is the long term, right?

00:59:16.500 So God forbid your party gets back in power.

00:59:19.460 I wonder, do you guys buy, do you take a 10% stake in Smith and Wesson and say, hey, you

00:59:25.240 can't sell guns anywhere, right?

00:59:26.860 I worry about that.

00:59:27.900 The precedent that it sets does concern me because at some point, you know, there is

00:59:35.860 a decent odds that a Democrat gets back in.

00:59:38.480 And what do they do with a stake in a private company?

00:59:41.740 And what do they say and say, well, Trump did it.

00:59:43.560 So that part does worry me.

00:59:46.120 I will say one of the things that, you know, and Dan Turntine and I've gotten this on the

00:59:50.500 morning meeting is that where I think that there's potentially a balance on this is if

00:59:56.460 the government is going to make an investment in a company.

00:59:59.060 So you're, you know, in the case of defense contractors, you're procuring something.

01:00:02.780 Is there something that the taxpayers should benefit from?

01:00:05.340 In the case of pharma, where all of our financial resources are laying the ground for the research

01:00:11.440 and then a major pharmaceutical company profits off of it tremendously.

01:00:16.260 When we, the taxpayer, our money has been used to sort of till the field.

01:00:22.160 I do think that there is a place for the government, for the taxpayer to reap a benefit.

01:00:26.980 As I said, I got a D in economics, so I'm probably not the best person answering this.

01:00:30.860 I like the way that President Trump approaches it where he's saying, what can we get out of

01:00:35.120 this as a country if we're doing some of the investing?

01:00:37.300 I don't know that I want us voting on, you know, having voting shares in a company.

01:00:42.460 Because let's just say, hypothetically, you have a 10% stake in Intel and B company comes

01:00:48.940 along, is the government going to award contracts to Intel versus another company because it says,

01:00:53.900 hey, we benefit more if we give them the contract.

01:00:56.980 So I do think that there's, you know, I appreciate the President's approach on this as a businessman

01:01:02.620 saying, hey, if we're going to be investing, what do we, the taxpayer, get out of it?

01:01:05.760 What does the country get?

01:01:06.560 I think the actual approach, and I get Secretary Lutnik's comment on defense contracting, but

01:01:13.040 again, I do worry because as somebody who has seen what this sort of consolidation in

01:01:19.640 the defense industrial complex has really hurt our ability to produce enough munitions.

01:01:26.480 And so what, you know, we want to encourage more innovation.

01:01:30.480 If a company says, well, they're going to favor another company because the government

01:01:34.460 owns stakes in it, that will make that difficult.

01:01:37.420 So I'm a little, this, to me, this is going to, how this manifests itself is going to be

01:01:43.040 very important.

01:01:43.620 Because again, I think the short term, I'm concerned about that.

01:01:46.640 And in the long term, I am worried about what another potential Democratic president would

01:01:51.740 say.

01:01:52.720 What companies do they want to take a stake in?

01:01:54.700 And what, how would they then argue those profits or that company must act to stay in

01:02:00.140 the good, goodwill of that administration?

01:02:01.800 Well, it's a, all is pretty familiar.

01:02:03.860 I mean, President Xi has put on a masterclass in China on strategic industries and making

01:02:10.060 sure that there was national ownership and oversight.

01:02:13.140 I mean, this is right out of his playbook.

01:02:15.180 And you're going to invest in incumbents and not ecosystem and startups.

01:02:19.100 We're going to invest in where the great American economies come, which is through research

01:02:23.000 and development and NIH and NSF.

01:02:25.440 That means you're basically socializing most of Silicon Valley in these great American

01:02:29.980 companies.

01:02:30.980 Again, I don't, I, I, I, again, I don't know where the balance is.

01:02:35.100 Like, I think somebody should look at this and say, if the American people are going to

01:02:38.360 fund all of the research and then a pharma company comes and takes it, brings it to market

01:02:42.940 and says, now we're going to make billions of dollars off of that.

01:02:45.500 I think the taxpayers should potentially have some role in reaping some benefits on it.

01:02:49.500 But look, when you talk about President Trump, you, bringing back the manufacturing, all

01:02:53.680 of these chips back to America, making sure that we create an incentive for American manufacturing,

01:02:58.240 it kills me post COVID that we have a country that sent us a disease, a virus.

01:03:04.280 And then we then turned back to them and said, hey, by the way, can we buy our PPE and our

01:03:08.280 pharma from you to solve the problem that you started?

01:03:11.000 I think dependent, independence from China has got to be our number one, number two.

01:03:16.020 And then Sean, forgive me.

01:03:17.180 You must have really been offended by the H2O chip deal with NVIDIA and the 15% set aside

01:03:22.680 to be able to get that green light.

01:03:24.840 That must have, on so many levels, offended the core.

01:03:27.460 Well, it goes back to this point that I was making.

01:03:29.280 What I worry about is the long-term consequences of, in the case of that, you had an export

01:03:34.940 license.

01:03:35.660 Again, the devil to me is really going to be in the detail and the precedent it sets, because

01:03:39.740 I do worry about how a future president uses this.

01:03:42.300 And that's what concerns me more than anything else, if we start taking stakes in companies,

01:03:47.180 especially-

01:03:47.840 Well, there's a president right now who seems to be on a roll of socializing and nationalizing

01:03:54.140 great American companies.

01:03:55.920 A lot of them happen to be in my home state.

01:03:58.160 Final thing.

01:03:58.840 I'm curious, because you said it, and I don't mean this to be argumentative.

01:04:02.320 I really, and thank you, Sean, for doing this.

01:04:04.480 I've enjoyed the conversation.

01:04:06.100 I enjoy the spirit of it as well.

01:04:07.940 Well, you talked, and I spent a lot of time, as you know, in Sacramento, Ronald Reagan's

01:04:15.680 old house.

01:04:16.740 I walk into Ronald Reagan's old office, former governor of California.

01:04:20.880 People revere sort of the fiscal conservatism, the free enterprise, the free market, supply

01:04:25.900 side economics that was Reagan.

01:04:29.200 But you said you're conservative, and you're worried.

01:04:32.560 What the hell happened to debt and deficits?

01:04:34.960 You guys just did $4.1 trillion.

01:04:38.840 Stacking-

01:04:39.480 Look, first of all-

01:04:39.600 I mean, our kids are going to be buried.

01:04:42.800 And for, honestly, what?

01:04:44.360 To cut-

01:04:44.640 So tell me, give me a program you want to cut, and I'll advocate for it.

01:04:47.980 Well, wait.

01:04:48.380 I mean, that's the job of the people that are in Congress, that are in the majority of

01:04:51.780 the president of the United States.

01:04:52.940 Look, and I wish-

01:04:54.700 And by the way, talking to the wrong person, because governors, we have to balance budgets.

01:04:59.180 So we do this every single year.

01:05:00.900 Look, I make no bones about it.

01:05:04.860 The debt and the deficit, to me, is probably up there with China, because it's actually

01:05:09.740 tethered to it.

01:05:10.380 They own so much of it.

01:05:11.600 We're at $37 trillion in debt.

01:05:13.800 Our deficit is out of control.

01:05:15.220 Well, I didn't agree with every way that Doge rolled out some of its stuff, but my God,

01:05:22.160 the idea that we are not looking at our spending in a responsible way is insane.

01:05:26.900 And so-

01:05:27.720 But then what was the-

01:05:28.520 Why did you guys support a bill that is the most insane spending bill in modern American

01:05:33.880 history?

01:05:34.720 I will tell you, as a guy, I spent a lot of time talking to folks.

01:05:38.660 The proof will be in the pudding, but I have been convinced through some of the models

01:05:43.500 that I've been showing that this will actually reduce the deficit.

01:05:45.920 And you look at what President Trump's done on tariffs, $4 trillion, the CBO says, that

01:05:50.020 we're going to bring in for deficit reduction and debt reduction on the tariffs alone.

01:05:54.200 That's a significant chunk of money.

01:05:56.060 $4 trillion.

01:05:57.440 Not a bad start.

01:05:59.120 All right.

01:06:00.020 Well, we don't have time to get into tariffs.

01:06:02.220 We could talk Kennedy Center.

01:06:04.260 We could talk-

01:06:05.100 Oh, I love the Kennedy Center.

01:06:06.520 Can we please-

01:06:07.200 Oh, my God.

01:06:08.160 But we did get Cracker Barrel in there.

01:06:10.080 Oh, I love Rick.

01:06:11.500 If you need tickets, Governor, I know Rick Grinnell lives in California.

01:06:14.140 Oh, Rick is-

01:06:14.980 Rick loves me.

01:06:16.120 I think-

01:06:16.660 Yeah, I'm one of his favorite.

01:06:18.440 I forgot.

01:06:18.960 He runs that, runs Recovery in California, Venezuela.

01:06:22.840 Isn't he solving for Kim Jong-un up there too, Rick?

01:06:25.680 I don't know.

01:06:26.180 Well, look, it's full and plenty here.

01:06:28.500 It's Alabama for football.

01:06:29.000 Yeah.

01:06:30.600 Well, I don't know what we solved, but hopefully we solved for at least this, that we all

01:06:37.180 should be solving for the fact that divorce is not an option.

01:06:41.500 We've got to define the terms of our future together.

01:06:44.820 And so I'm really grateful we had this chance to be together today, Sean.

01:06:48.220 And I appreciate what you're doing with Mark and Dan.

01:06:50.740 I'm an avid listener, sincerely.

01:06:53.720 And I hope people- there's a reason you guys have blown up in the charts.

01:06:58.180 And I think those morning meetings are- I didn't know the origin story.

01:07:00.880 I really appreciate-

01:07:01.720 Yeah.

01:07:01.980 No, you know, the funny thing is, you're the first person that's ever asked.

01:07:05.740 Interesting.

01:07:06.640 Yeah.

01:07:06.960 So if anyone- they're both on my YouTube page.

01:07:09.900 Go sign up, take a listen.

01:07:11.920 But I appreciate- we're dark this week.

01:07:13.520 We're back Tuesday after Labor Day, live at 9 a.m. Eastern, 6 a.m. your time, and then

01:07:19.900 everywhere else in between.

01:07:21.020 But it's live.

01:07:22.000 And the cool part- I forgot, that's the one cool thing.

01:07:24.020 We take questions for the last 30 minutes from anyone around the world.

01:07:27.160 And literally, we've taken them from everywhere around the world.

01:07:30.080 I love it.

01:07:30.880 And it's the one Sean Spicer show that we should all tune in on.

01:07:37.260 I appreciate it.

01:07:38.080 Those evening ones, you know, that's a different thing.

01:07:41.120 God bless you.

01:07:42.300 Thanks, Governor.

01:07:42.800 Hey, I appreciate you.

01:07:44.340 Thanks for taking the time.

01:07:45.160 No, no.

01:07:45.560 Thanks for having me.

01:07:46.220 It's been fun.

01:07:54.320 I'm Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast.

01:07:58.820 I know how overwhelming it can feel if flying makes you anxious.

01:08:02.580 In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal Barnett and I discuss

01:08:08.640 flight anxiety.

01:08:09.720 What is not a norm is to allow it to prevent you from doing the things that you want to

01:08:15.700 do, the things that you were meant to do.

01:08:18.460 Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

01:08:23.060 your podcasts.

01:08:23.940 In sitcoms, when someone has a problem, they just blurt it out and move on.

01:08:29.100 Well, I lost my job and my parakeet is missing.

01:08:33.160 How was your day?

01:08:35.300 But the real world is different.

01:08:37.360 Managing life's challenges can be overwhelming.

01:08:39.560 So what do we do?

01:08:40.760 We get support.

01:08:41.960 The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have mental health resources available

01:08:45.940 for you at loveyourmindtoday.org.

01:08:48.220 That's loveyourmindtoday.org.

01:08:50.580 See how much further you can go when you take care of your mental health.

01:08:55.480 Tune in to All the Smoke podcast, where Matt and Stax sit down with former First Lady

01:09:00.000 Michelle Obama.

01:09:01.820 Folks find it hard to hate up close.

01:09:04.260 And when you get to know people and you're sitting in their kitchen tables and they're

01:09:08.140 talking like we're talking, you know, you hear our story, how we grew up, how Barack

01:09:12.420 grew up, and you get a chance for people to unpack and get beyond race.

01:09:16.160 All the Smoke featuring Michelle Obama.

01:09:19.260 To hear this podcast and more, open your free iHeartRadio app, search All the Smoke,

01:09:23.540 and listen now.

01:09:24.620 The U.S. Open is here and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the

01:09:28.660 players, the predictions, the pressure, and of course, the honey deuces, the signature

01:09:33.520 cocktail of the U.S. Open.

01:09:35.300 The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very wonderfully experiential sporting event.

01:09:41.020 To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an iHeart Women's Sports

01:09:44.520 production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the iHeartRadio app,

01:09:48.500 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:09:50.960 Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.

01:09:55.580 I was diagnosed with cancer on Friday and cancer-free the next Friday.

01:09:59.020 No chemo, no radiation, none of that.

01:10:00.820 On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us podcast, I sat down with Warren Campbell,

01:10:04.800 Grammy-winning producer, pastor, and music executive, to talk about the beats, the business,

01:10:09.180 and the legacy behind some of the biggest names in gospel, R&B, and hip-hop.

01:10:14.040 Professionally, I started at Death World Records.

01:10:16.100 From Mary Mary to Jennifer Hudson, we get into the soul of the music and the purpose that

01:10:21.040 drives it.

01:10:21.960 Listen to Culture Raises Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

01:10:25.680 podcasts.

01:10:26.160 This is an iHeart Podcast.

This is Gavin Newsom - September 03, 2025

And, This Is Sean Spicer On Why He Thinks People Want To Be On Team Trump This Time Around

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