This is Gavin Newsom - And, This Is Who Wins In An AI World With Andrew Yang

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00:01:53.540 Because if you had a government that had its act together, they would already be distributing an AI dividend.

00:01:59.380 The easiest people to fire are the people you haven't hired yet.

00:02:01.640 And our data is getting sold and resold for hundreds of billions of dollars a year and no one's seeing it die.

00:02:07.020 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:02:09.760 And this is Andrew Yang.

00:02:13.840 So much to talk about. Obviously, all things AI.

00:02:16.680 What's going on with your new party, forward party, your new cell phone company?

00:02:21.260 What's going on in the world? We're living 24-7 with autopsies in the Democratic Party and, you know, all kinds of, you know, press conferences being canceled, including one today on AI from Donald Trump, a new EO that he's about to promote.

00:02:35.600 I want to get to all of that. But first, I just want to check in on what is going on with, and you've got the lapel right now, with the Forward Party.

00:02:45.360 So where to begin? A forward party is a positive, independent political movement that thinks the two-party system is going to lead us nowhere good.

00:02:53.940 And unfortunately, we're doing great in the sense that people are increasingly despondent about the direction of the two-party system.

00:03:01.360 So supporting positive candidates around the country of any party with a special spot in our hearts for independent candidates like Seth Bodnar, who's running for U.S. Senate in Montana, Mike Duggan, who's running for governor of Michigan and other candidates around the country.

00:03:20.320 It being an independent is the fastest growing clinical affiliation in the U.S. for good reason.

00:03:24.800 And so forward parties are growing all the time.

00:03:26.840 Well, let's talk about your primary when you ran and your primary focus that continues to this day.

00:03:32.700 And I appreciate your tenacity on it and have a little bit of history myself with UBI, this notion of universal basic income.

00:03:39.000 And we can get to all things AI, but in so many ways, you know, you were way ahead of the curve in terms of calling these things out.

00:03:45.600 This notion of min-come, as it's been referred to and organized in other countries.

00:03:50.600 It's not necessarily a new idea, but it's an idea you really brought to the fore in

00:03:55.300 scale and consciousness.

00:03:56.880 But it's been a bipartisan idea over the course of quite literally decades and decades.

00:04:02.040 Conservative economists, not just progressive thinkers, have been promoting this fundamental

00:04:07.000 idea of monthly checks, minimum income that is universally distributed to address the

00:04:14.280 anxieties, the burdens, and the stresses, particularly now in an AI-induced economy.

00:04:20.160 yeah and you were open to this too man i remember you quoting voltaire at an event

00:04:25.000 about how work uh stabs off like the three great sins uh you know it solves life's three great

00:04:31.920 evils boredom vice and need yeah and look at this and i was like look at look at gavin quoting

00:04:38.400 voltaire i have to steal that you know since i'm i was quoting other people but yeah uh this is

00:04:44.940 something that is now front and center because ai has arrived and when i was running for president

00:04:49.980 back in 2019 and 2020, it was still somewhat speculative or far out. But now it's here,

00:04:58.600 spending $700 billion on data centers around the country. And the major tech firms are

00:05:04.280 replacing coders, and soon it's going to be customer service. And then Waymo is going to

00:05:09.920 replace the drivers and on and on. And so the average Californian and the average American

00:05:14.460 is like, okay, what the heck is my kid going to do when they graduate from college? And in my

00:05:19.400 view. And by the way, not just my view, but also, you know, Daria Amadei is saying tax us,

00:05:24.240 put in a token tax. Sam Altman's like national wealth fund based on AI. Elon Musk says universal

00:05:29.880 high income, which I, you know, quite enjoy, you know, the vision. And so we need to get a move on

00:05:39.160 because more and more value is going to disappear into the cloud and more and more average families

00:05:45.540 are going to be looking up being like, what the heck happened? So to me, universal basic income

00:05:49.820 is the foundational step. But you have to keep on moving in that direction. And Gavin, thank you for

00:05:56.560 pushing us down this road. One of the biggest misconceptions about universal basic income is

00:06:02.340 that it somehow is anti-work. I have an Asian joke here, which is I'm Asian. I love to work.

00:06:08.180 But the fact is, if you give people more money, they'll participate in the market economy. They'll

00:06:12.860 start businesses at higher levels. They'll give to their congregation or religious community at

00:06:20.060 higher levels. It's going to supercharge the things that people actually want, which will

00:06:24.360 give us a lot more to do. The other major source of jobs, in my opinion, after the private sector

00:06:30.080 retrenches, which it will, would be the government. And I'd much prefer communities figure out what

00:06:36.720 they'd want to pursue for work than have the government come in and say, hey, I've got a

00:06:42.120 bunch of jobs for you. Like, I don't think that's the vision that most Americans want.

00:06:47.300 When you were promoting UBI, you were promoting about $1,000. It was $1,000, if I recall,

00:06:52.420 specifically. Yeah. Oh, by the way, just for fun, too. I even wrote a book recently called

00:06:58.660 Hey, Yang, Where's My Thousand Bucks? And the alternate title, which you'll enjoy was

00:07:04.700 Hey, Am I Racist? Or Are You Andrew Yang? Both of which I have gotten. But yeah, it's a thousand

00:07:11.600 bucks a month was a freedom dividend so and i love that you framed it as as you suggest a freedom

00:07:18.420 dividend and you were going to pay for it i mean it's not inexpensive i think at the time they

00:07:22.940 scored it what 2.83 trillion dollars or something like that is that accurate uh order magnitude it's

00:07:27.980 a little bit lower than that if you include current uh programs which in in my plan um would

00:07:34.120 be kind of like a trade-off it's like you get one or the other and you can elect um but let's call

00:07:39.120 at $2 trillion or $2.5 trillion just for, you know, the setup. And the idea, again, was just

00:07:46.360 to deal with the anxiety, create at least a baseline of money that allows people not, you

00:07:53.680 know, makes the end of the month a little bit less stressful and then provides the opportunity

00:07:58.260 to stretch the mind of imagination across the spectrum of issues, including something you've

00:08:04.420 been attached to for decades, and that is a very aggressive entrepreneurial construct. This notion

00:08:09.420 of startups, which you've invested a lot of time, energy, and resources in promoting. But what about

00:08:16.480 this, as you suggest, notion that UBI is charity versus this notion of ownership that, you know,

00:08:23.740 interestingly, even Sam Altman came out, as you pointed to recently, suggesting maybe

00:08:29.400 university basic capital is a better approach. This notion of an ownership society, not necessarily

00:08:34.980 a charitable society that can make everybody feel a sense of not just connection, but connection

00:08:41.600 to a larger cause called democracy to one another in a broader sense. Yeah, I'm on board. And the

00:08:48.320 fact is these models were built on our data and our data is getting sold and resold for hundreds

00:08:52.820 of billions of dollars a year and no one's seeing a dime. And a dividend is what a stockholder,

00:08:58.000 a shareholder gets. It's one of the things I framed as like a stakeholder society where you

00:09:03.840 get a dividend as a result of being a member of the richest, most advanced country in the history

00:09:10.620 of the world. So there are different names you could use, but that is exactly what I was going

00:09:16.840 for, which is like, look, we all have an ownership stake in the future. And then we can look at our

00:09:21.900 kids and say, you have an ownership stake too. You're going to be all right. And when the AI

00:09:25.760 wizards, develop more innovations, you're somehow getting like a tiny, tiny slice of that.

00:09:33.820 It's interesting. I appreciate the frame in the context of that. You know, to me, it's not even

00:09:39.680 a debate. For us out here in California, at least, it's both and. And let me give you a

00:09:44.460 proof point. A few years back, inspired by a lot of the work you were doing and a lot of the

00:09:48.680 commentary and the critique, I just, I love stress testing, this idea of increasing the number of

00:09:54.080 tries, be open to argument, interested in evidence. And it led to us at a state level

00:09:58.740 putting out $35 million of general fund to seven large-scale UBI projects. And by the way,

00:10:06.100 those projects are fully functioning with the cohorts, class, the support on their multi-year

00:10:12.760 pilots. And the results of all of these pilots, they targeted pregnant women, foster families,

00:10:18.520 people 65 and over. In fact, we just trued it up an additional $5 million. So it's $40 million.

00:10:24.080 We're going to get the results of all that in an independent analysis of what it produced and stress test literally in a matter of months.

00:10:34.820 And so California will, at a scale, a geographic scale and demographic scale, have the ability to, you know, to kick the tires further.

00:10:43.800 But we're also going to be piloting this notion of universal basic capital at the same time.

00:10:49.100 We're now rolling out, working with what we created, baby bonds years ago before the Trump accounts, 5.5 million California accounts, up to $1,500 for all of our kindergartners.

00:11:00.760 Everyone was eligible.

00:11:02.660 We put $1.9 billion of general fund money to support this program and to use these accounts for ownership, for capital accumulation, focusing on financial literacy, the notion of compounded investments.

00:11:18.200 And so I'm very appreciative of what you're doing.

00:11:21.980 I'm also appreciative now we're broadening the conversation to capital, to equity, to

00:11:27.740 public equity, to dividends in something broader than just income.

00:11:32.560 I'm pumped that you've been rolling these things out in California, Gavin.

00:11:36.120 I have a joke, which is it only counts if money changes hands.

00:11:40.920 You know what I mean?

00:11:41.340 And in your case, money is changing hands because like I've run companies.

00:11:44.180 and if you tell everyone how great a job they're doing um that works for a little while but then

00:11:48.400 eventually they're like hey uh you know is there a bonus attached so um so uh the fact that these

00:11:56.640 kids are getting baby bonds uh incredible like i'm for it when california does it i'm for it uh

00:12:02.200 when the trump crew does it um you know no matter what they name it like people ask me

00:12:06.780 on tv it's like hey what do you think of this and i was like look as far as i can tell it's

00:12:11.020 money for babies so you know like i'm like i'm on board you could call it something even worse

00:12:16.660 i'd probably be okay with it no and i i appreciate that and i think it's important for democrats by

00:12:22.800 the way we had a lot of democrats that were supporting you know cory booker was out there

00:12:26.800 for years and years ted cruz as well you know if it's a good idea it's a good idea and you got to

00:12:31.860 celebrate it to your point even if you know some of us that are a little more partisan you know

00:12:36.340 are not happy about Trump accounts.

00:12:38.600 I could call them Newsom accounts.

00:12:40.340 They wouldn't be happy about it.

00:12:41.680 We're going to, we'll rise above that though.

00:12:44.060 Yeah, yeah.

00:12:44.680 And just call it something neutral,

00:12:46.280 like America accounts or, you know,

00:12:48.260 it's pretty neutral.

00:12:50.160 I'm going to need your help.

00:12:51.000 We call it Cow Kids, which is a lousy brand,

00:12:53.260 but it's another thing I got to work on.

00:12:54.580 Cow Kids could have been improved upon, I got to say.

00:12:56.760 By the way, I've enjoyed your entire social media persona.

00:13:00.860 And one of the things I've said to folks

00:13:03.220 is that Trump is a cocktail of three communication styles,

00:13:08.380 politics, and then pro-wrestling.

00:13:12.020 He's kind of a pro-wrestling villain and a WWE Hall of Famer.

00:13:15.120 And then three, comedy, insult comedy.

00:13:18.840 And the fact is pro-wrestling and comedy

00:13:21.120 both have audiences of millions every week

00:13:24.300 that ignore cable news channels.

00:13:27.420 And so the fact that you are tapping into these other wavelengths

00:13:30.220 I think is very, very savvy.

00:13:32.060 and, you know, it serves you well.

00:13:36.040 I appreciate that.

00:13:37.400 And again, not everyone does.

00:13:38.840 So I'm grateful for the recognition

00:13:41.760 as we try to battle it out for attention

00:13:43.740 and just to get in that space.

00:13:45.260 And I couldn't agree with you more,

00:13:47.060 especially, again, my party, the Democratic Party,

00:13:50.260 just so often a little bit humorless.

00:13:53.900 No, no.

00:13:55.560 Dare I say.

00:13:58.640 Forgive the understatement.

00:14:00.400 Forgive the understatement.

00:14:01.280 it's fine. I mean, I'm just, I'm just, you know, giving someone a hard time, but like, it's

00:14:07.980 something that I personally have told people, it's like, look, I think Gavin's smart to do it.

00:14:12.880 I think it's working. And when I get asked about your prospects, which I do get asked,

00:14:18.920 I'm like, Gavin is very, very strong in a room. Like the dude seems like he did just walk off a

00:14:24.640 Hollywood set in a good way. I mean, this is a comment, like you're very handsome and like,

00:14:31.960 you know, tall and sun-kissed and the rest of it. But I was like, look, having been in these rooms,

00:14:37.220 being good in the room matters very, very significantly. Like, I think Gavin's going

00:14:40.960 to travel well and people are going to gravitate towards him. So, you know, just so, I mean,

00:14:47.020 as you can imagine, because like I get asked about the field all the time. I also tell people,

00:14:51.000 I think it's going to be a governor because I think folks are going to want

00:14:55.280 that kind of background and leadership.

00:14:58.300 Well, I appreciate all that. And, and, and, and, but, and again,

00:15:02.120 I'm not going to take the bait on any of it and I want to go back to AI.

00:15:07.040 Say hello to your new favorite drinks,

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00:15:17.220 watermelon, mango, pineapple, and blackberry passion fruit.

00:15:20.420 Only at McDonald's.

00:15:50.420 originally calling it

00:15:52.400 one of the early

00:15:53.660 names of our band

00:15:55.320 before Jonas Brothers

00:15:56.580 this is how you guys

00:15:58.860 remember it going down

00:15:59.520 yes

00:16:00.160 I have a very different

00:16:00.960 memory of this

00:16:01.480 we were talking about

00:16:02.680 a thing

00:16:03.220 a bit for the podcast

00:16:04.320 where people could call in

00:16:05.180 and say hey Jonas

00:16:05.920 and then I

00:16:07.020 wrote down on my little

00:16:08.160 notepad

00:16:08.780 hey Jonas

00:16:09.480 and offered it up

00:16:10.460 as a potential title

00:16:11.480 for the podcast

00:16:12.220 but thanks for remembering

00:16:13.840 that guys

00:16:14.360 listen to hey Jonas

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00:16:22.080 Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy.

00:16:25.160 Not quite.

00:16:26.100 On Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends,

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00:16:31.640 help make you funnier.

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00:16:37.360 help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

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00:16:52.540 Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way, with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

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00:17:52.600 i've been you know i've been listening to you on a bunch of podcasts and i appreciate

00:17:57.580 you know you've been out on this you know you've been calling us out not just been out on the road

00:18:02.180 uh talking about ai and uh what's going on not just with gen ai but now with what's going with

00:18:09.560 agentic ai as it moves and morphs into this next iteration um and talking about compute not just

00:18:15.420 talking about data centers, but talking about tokens, talking about digital privacy and this

00:18:22.140 notion of a digital dividend that can look many different forms and shapes. But this notion of AI

00:18:29.940 anxiety, this notion that they're coming after my jobs. We talk about white collar workers now 0.99

00:18:36.200 having so much more in common with blue collar workers. You could be talking about a 25 year old

00:18:40.640 that's not getting, you know, any interviews that just graduated a few years ago and is having a

00:18:47.020 hard time and sounding a lot like, you know, the old factory work in Ohio, that, you know,

00:18:51.820 blue collar worker, white collar rhetoric is starting to come together. And I think a new

00:18:56.140 coalition in many respects around anxiety. And so I'm curious where you are on the spectrum,

00:19:02.760 the doomer versus the utopia spectrum. Is it coming sooner than we think the displacement

00:19:08.620 is coming faster? Is it coming in different shades, meaning the people you don't hire 0.79

00:19:13.020 is a form of that displacement? Because those are the easiest people, as you suggest,

00:19:16.780 to fire, the people you don't hire. Is it coming first to entry-level jobs, clerical jobs? Is it

00:19:23.020 happening in the physical AI space? You talk about Waymo, then we could talk robots. I mean,

00:19:28.540 give me a sense of where you are on the spectrum of AI and the spectrum of what we should be

00:19:35.440 thinking about? Well, first, let me share a story to help set this convo up, Gavin. So I was a CNN

00:19:41.680 commentator for a while. And at one point, the team approached me and said, hey, we're thinking

00:19:47.960 of doing a TV show called The Future of with Andrew Yang. It'll be like the future of healthcare,

00:19:52.780 the future of transportation. I said, all right, that sounds good. They come back 10 days later,

00:19:57.500 they said, hey, Andrew, we ran a focus group. Bad news, Americans don't like the future.

00:20:02.520 and you know and that was uh you know kind of um tough to hear and this was a few years ago so when

00:20:09.280 you talk about the hostility towards ai and grads booing the commencement speakers americans don't

00:20:15.820 feel great about the future because they don't think it's going to include them they don't think

00:20:20.020 they're going to be among the beneficiaries uh and they are stone cold correct uh you know like i have

00:20:26.360 AI you don't or maybe you can you can like use it you can pay for it but you're talking about

00:20:33.620 the formation of multiple trillion dollar companies you're gonna have our first trillionaires

00:20:37.340 and then the average family looking up in central California or central Missouri is like okay like

00:20:45.540 I don't think I'm gonna win as a result of this and so if you give me a chance to boo or to protest

00:20:52.360 the data center. I'll take that. And so the question is, how do you make that person feel

00:20:58.840 like they're winning? And I'm going to go back to what I said before, it's like it only counts

00:21:02.100 if money changes hands. So if the big winners from this, and I do think some of the AI high

00:21:08.140 chieftains are getting wise to this because they know that people are turning on them so

00:21:12.300 completely, they've got to share the winnings as quickly and broadly as possible.

00:21:18.400 Now, to your question of like, where am I in terms of how bad it's going to get for workers and what sequence and the rest of it?

00:21:25.100 No, I look at the same data that you do.

00:21:27.540 Maybe you have better data than I do because you're a governor and you get like some internal secret stuff.

00:21:35.740 But the big companies are replacing first coders, then customer service, then various white collar functions, then slowing down entry level hires.

00:21:45.400 College kids now have an underemployment rate of, let's call it, 48% or something along those lines.

00:21:53.100 And so it's getting sped up.

00:21:56.940 I'm 51 years old, and I tell people if I don't get dumber in a given month, it was a good month.

00:22:02.780 AI probably got twice as smart in the same time frame.

00:22:05.260 So then saying what we're going to do is train people and have them upskill.

00:22:09.420 I mean, by the time I complete the program, AI got eight times faster.

00:22:12.860 So, you know, like what that's not a real plan. So I like it probably sounds pretty pessimistic, my analysis, but I sit down with CEOs the same way you do. And the CEOs tell me, look, I'm going to fire 15 percent of my staff this year, another 20 percent two years from now and another 20 percent two years later than after that.

00:22:34.700 who knows. Now, are they going to go on CNBC and say that? Probably not. But have I heard that from

00:22:40.280 now a dozen different CEOs of both public and private companies? Yes, I have. And so if you

00:22:47.300 hear that over and over again, and by the way, even for me running Noble Mobile, our CTO came

00:22:53.740 and said, hey, guess what? We're going to take down the job posting for junior engineers because

00:22:58.420 I think I can now get it done with AI. And so that's the, you know, the easiest people to fire

00:23:05.160 are the people you haven't hired yet. So, you know, we're having the same conversations. And

00:23:10.120 by the way, the people, these folks running these frontier labs are saying it out loud. I mean,

00:23:15.880 as you noted, Dario's saying it out loud, an anthropic open letter, basically an essay that

00:23:21.580 was written by sam altman and open ai uh around the anxiety and so they they see the you know

00:23:27.640 they may not see quote unquote the pitchforks coming but they certainly see into the future

00:23:32.360 and the trend lines here that are becoming headlines i mean sam had attacks on his house

00:23:36.740 i mean like that that was a modern day pitchfork so you know i i think they're feeling it and by

00:23:43.420 the way i i think the lapse here it's like the level of federal dysfunction is actually

00:23:48.760 like a major impediment because if you had a government that had its act together they would

00:23:54.320 already be distributing uh an ai dividend in my opinion and i think a lot of the ai companies

00:23:59.780 would be forking over cash to keep the pitchforks at bay just out of enlightened self-interest uh

00:24:06.480 you know like there's a sense that people are greedy beyond uh you know like uh like any other

00:24:12.780 measure and i just i think that enlightened self-interest from a lot of these tech ceos

00:24:18.740 is like, look, they know they're going to have plenty of money. And what I joke about is like,

00:24:25.400 life is better outside the bunker than in the bunker. Like, no matter how much money you have,

00:24:29.120 like that bunker is not that nice, you know, like, you know, miss the sunlight. So I think

00:24:34.700 that there is a grand bargain to be had. But our government is asleep at the switch, or just

00:24:39.820 cheerleading for the AI firms. And even if the AI firms are raising their hands and saying, hey,

00:24:44.880 like you know please do consider taxing me um then at the same time they have 150 million dollars

00:24:50.220 in lobbying cash that um they'll use to bomb anyone who does something they don't like and

00:24:55.620 so there are a lot of legislators who are like okay are you sincere about this or are you just

00:25:00.800 trying to make yourself look good and then if i suggest it all of a sudden i'm going to have eight

00:25:04.600 figures spent against me and i mean that's played out obviously and and i think what is it out in

00:25:10.000 your neck of the woods is the 12th congressional district alex boris yeah like who i find to be

00:25:14.560 totally reasonable. Passed a sensible AI safety bill as a New York state legislator.

00:25:23.660 Which, by the way, full disclosure, Andrew, was modeled after the bill that we passed here in

00:25:29.240 California, SB 53. That's right. So I couldn't agree with you more, the sensibility of the bill.

00:25:35.840 It was a large language model, LLM frontier safety and transparency bill, and just the second in the

00:25:41.940 country. And one, by the way, broadly embraced by tech, but he hasn't necessarily been.

00:25:50.640 Yeah. And by the way, the irony of the attacks on Alex Boris, Gavin, you have these ads of him

00:25:57.680 looking very mean and scary and then say, he worked for Palantir, you can't trust him. And

00:26:02.520 meanwhile, the folks who are funding that ad are the AI companies themselves that are just trying,

00:26:06.940 You know, and Alex, of course, is like, I did work for them and then I became a state legislator and I'm trying to do good things.

00:26:14.840 And so this goes back to the conversation around incentives is that legislators know it's like, look, if I take on the industry in a way that they don't like, it's going to reduce my job security.

00:26:25.960 And so if I, you know, kind of hand wave or like walk around the block a little bit, like, you know, I mean, and I do think Republicans are more guilty of this right now because, again, they have just been reduced to cheerleaders for the industry, even as their voters are turning on AI.

00:26:46.000 You know, there's like a fascinating disconnect. AI has a 26% approval rating right now. And I think that's lower than ICE. So it gives you a sense how bad it is.

00:26:55.960 And I think it's trending negatively, not positively, even though it's already quite low.

00:27:00.620 What do you make of, I mean, you know, obviously with David Sachs, he's no longer, quote unquote,

00:27:04.960 formally there as the crypto and AIs are.

00:27:07.720 I mean, Trump came in very enthusiastically, sort of ripped off the Band-Aid, rolled back

00:27:12.220 some of the executive order, at least directionally rolled back some of the policies of the prior

00:27:18.360 administration, the Biden administration.

00:27:19.800 There was efforts to undermine our safety and frontier model legislation led by not just members of the Trump administration and SACS, but people like Ted Cruz that didn't want to see any regulation.

00:27:35.620 There was an effort to preempt states from taking that role and responsibility.

00:27:40.620 And we're highlighting Alex and how he's the burden and beneficiary because there are tech people that are behind him as well.

00:27:47.180 He's an interesting case study.

00:27:48.400 There's nuance and who's going after him and then, interestingly, who's supporting him.

00:27:52.960 A lot of folks out here in Silicon Valley are actually supporting Alex.

00:27:56.300 I think he's getting more of his money from California than he even is from Manhattan in an interesting twist in the saga of his election.

00:28:05.300 But what do you what do you make of where Trump is now, particularly today, where he allegedly was going to come out with a new executive order and was going to have a press conference?

00:28:17.640 He pulled back the executive order of press conference the last minute.

00:28:21.760 People are speculating as to why.

00:28:23.680 But it was a sense that now they've woken up in a mythos world.

00:28:28.340 Anthropic put out a mythos.

00:28:31.080 They quickly pulled it back.

00:28:33.220 Cybersecurity, red flags everywhere.

00:28:36.320 And that may have woken these guys up a little bit.

00:28:39.700 No?

00:28:40.300 Trump and Besant and others?

00:28:41.880 We got to pay a little more attention to the safety sides of things.

00:28:44.940 Yeah, there was apparently a freak out that mythos could be used to hack through a lot of systems and infrastructure. And so they did have like a wake up call. I don't know what's going on with this delay.

00:29:00.880 But what's interesting is that I think Trump and some of his team have realized that a lot of their people, their voters are very, very dubious of AI and that if left unchecked, AI could rip through federal systems in a way that would be disastrous.

00:29:19.620 And so they're trying to be responsive. And I think they will end up announcing some measures around having to look at model frontier models before they're released.

00:29:31.920 One of the jokes I have been telling is that there are more regulations to open a hot dog stand than launch a new model that's going to impact millions of people. 0.56

00:29:42.160 It's like I could just use people as guinea pigs, whereas I couldn't use them as guinea pigs on my hot dogs without someone making sure that, you know, they're kosher, so to speak. 0.58

00:29:52.460 Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, nothing funny about that joke. 0.95

00:29:55.260 I mean, it's fact, isn't it?

00:29:56.760 I mean, it's a remarkable fact.

00:29:58.680 Yeah, man, these are strange times.

00:30:02.000 But the public is heading a certain way.

00:30:04.240 I think there's a big political void.

00:30:06.940 And I do think people in both parties are going to move to fill it, which I applaud because to me, it's crazy that we don't have more sensible guidelines.

00:30:18.140 We missed the boat on social media. Our kids paid the price. We're missing the boat on AI.

00:30:23.500 And young people and workers, in my opinion, are about to pay the price.

00:30:28.620 And so there's going to be a political backlash as a result.

00:30:31.880 So as we focus on safety and we focus on the intended and unintended consequences of AI in that prism, we talk about jobs and job loss and the anxiety and how it's beginning to manifest.

00:30:45.500 Certainly, a lot of headlines suggest it's already taking place in shape.

00:30:49.680 It's geographically dispersed, so it's a more challenging thing.

00:30:53.820 It's not reflected necessarily on the factory floor.

00:30:56.340 Or it has been automation generally, certainly, but not reflected necessarily with clerical workers that, you know, it's harder to see what's happening in terms of those job losses.

00:31:06.980 But Warn Act, the Warn Act itself, it seems to me it's worn out its usefulness.

00:31:13.860 It was designed like our labor laws, 1930s, these things were designed for a world that no longer exists.

00:31:20.020 Unemployment insurance seems to me to have worn out its benefit.

00:31:25.760 What about employment insurance? What about the opportunity to really scale portable benefits?

00:31:32.360 What about modernizing the Warn Act and having early warning systems?

00:31:36.760 What about I mean, what are what are the conversations we need to be having now at scale to reform our systems,

00:31:43.420 to prepare in real time for what's happening in real time on our watch? 0.96

00:31:49.120 Yeah, tying health insurance to jobs is super dumb. I think most people realize that. 0.92

00:31:53.520 And by the way, it's an impediment to entrepreneurship. There are a lot of people that would start businesses if they didn't need health insurance for their families. And health insurance now is very expensive. And so, you know, like if I start a company, I'm like kind of running a massive risk.

00:32:07.420 so portable benefits would be to me like a massive step in the right direction but like I'm still

00:32:14.940 for universal basic income or the equivalent because I think it's going to become increasingly

00:32:21.940 necessary and one of the topics I think you and I both are passionate about is what's happening to

00:32:28.700 men and young men where labor force participation just continues to decline they have lower rates

00:32:34.800 of both high school and college graduation,

00:32:37.500 lower rates of family formation and dating.

00:32:41.600 You know, they're going home.

00:32:43.020 They don't think that anyone has a use for them.

00:32:45.200 And on the far end,

00:32:47.760 they do get radicalized by the internet.

00:32:49.560 They start blaming someone for their problems.

00:32:54.100 And so to me, like there are supports

00:32:57.020 to try and help people who are in jobs.

00:33:00.080 But I just think we need to be doing much more

00:33:02.100 to stimulate uh activity and paths so that folks feel like i bring something to the table even if

00:33:08.820 what i bring to the table is just my magical ai dividend so i can come out and like you know um

00:33:13.740 buy a beer i mean people aren't drinking either so i mean i should use a different example

00:33:17.520 you know um like uh buy a burger um you know with my friends uh you know like some of the the

00:33:25.160 fundamental issues are are um to me uh only addressable with very very big dramatic actions

00:33:31.740 And one of the things I like about you, Gavin, is like you hear this stuff and you're like, yeah, Voltaire, like, let's do it.

00:33:37.260 I mean, not like you actually say that, but but, you know, but you've got part of it might be because you're the governor of California, which I dare say is the most abundant state in the country in terms of a growth mindset.

00:33:50.340 Yeah, no, I will. I appreciate that.

00:33:51.800 And I, again, you just got to, I mean, an entrepreneur member, I started right out of college, opened my first business, grew it to about 21 small restaurants and hotels and wineries, not to impress you to say that, but to press upon you that entrepreneurial mindset, a willingness to try to take risks, not be reckless, recognition that you have agency, you can shape the future.

00:34:11.480 We're not victims. It's decisions, not conditions that determine our fate and future. Recognizing that businesses can't thrive in a world that's failing.

00:34:19.840 So I want a customer base that is successful and thriving and recognizing, Andrew, in the spirit I think that defines you and I, that you can't be pro-job and anti-business as well, that we should be supporting business formation and entrepreneurialism.

00:34:34.580 Dude, one of the most consistent things that happened to me when I was running for president in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, is I'd run into a business owner and they'd say, hey, you're running as a what?

00:34:43.740 I'd say a Democrat. And they really thought Democrats did not like them as small business owners.

00:34:49.720 And it made me so sad because it was like I came up as a small business owner and like you guys are the backbone and life's blood of this town, of our workforce.

00:34:59.540 So that was something that really stuck with me. I mean, I'm sure, you know, you get versions of it.

00:35:04.580 Anyway, I mean, but just like you, I came up as a small business owner, and it's still what makes me tick.

00:35:11.820 Why are we, Andrew, then, as supporters and champions of small business, why do we have a tax system, particularly when productivity and wealth are now being rewarded, robots, technology, automation?

00:35:31.340 Why are we taxing, then, human labor?

00:35:34.160 Why do we have payroll taxes and yet have tax code that actually rewards automation in terms of write-offs?

00:35:43.080 Exactly.

00:35:44.020 And I'm so glad you raised this.

00:35:46.680 John Arnold, Vinod Khosla, me, sounds like maybe you too.

00:35:51.200 Heck, even Jeff Bezos the other day, if I heard him right, where you tend to tax things you want less of.

00:35:56.940 So taxing jobs via payroll taxes and other costs discourages hiring.

00:36:05.340 Meanwhile, if I do automate hundreds of thousands of jobs away via AI, I get to keep virtually all that money because it's going to be going through some megacorp and I'm not paying a lot of taxes on that.

00:36:18.060 Maybe I make it so I have no profits.

00:36:19.720 So we're emphasizing the vortex that is AI and capital and data as it sucks up more and more energy and jobs.

00:36:31.740 And then the small business owners just trying to employ people in their community has to pay out the nose for their social security taxes and payroll taxes and health care in many cases.

00:36:44.820 I mean, we should be going line by line to what that small business owner is paying and be like, let's see if we can get rid of that.

00:36:50.920 Unpack it. Where are you? And we talked briefly about physical AI.

00:36:56.640 You know, we're seeing it. You brought up Waymo.

00:37:00.000 Anyone who's been to San Francisco, you could be seven deep at a stop sign with seven driverless cars in front of you.

00:37:05.700 You must have been in them already, right, Gavin?

00:37:07.640 I mean, I remember, Andrew, I'm old enough, gray hairs to prove it, when I was sitting there with Larry and Sergey in the parking lot at Google in basically a golf cart that was driving itself and just never forget that experience, the first iteration of that, decade or so ago.

00:37:26.560 I mean, now it's going to be Joby Aviation and Archer and others competing for the version of the flying taxis.

00:37:32.000 yeah um the first time i rode in a waymo just commercially was in california last summer

00:37:37.220 whatnot i took a little social media video um and really enjoyed it and then after i got out 0.65

00:37:42.840 and thanked the driver that wasn't there i just like i just thought like yeah we're fucked which

00:37:47.140 i set out and then it kind of um but it was a great experience in the sense of i felt perfectly

00:37:53.940 safe after the first 30 seconds uh you you don't have a driver in your case i'll speak to myself

00:37:59.700 like i'm kind of a public figure too so sometimes not having a driver is kind of preferable to having

00:38:03.640 a driver you know you can like play the music you want if you feel like it you can have a private

00:38:08.200 embarrassing conversation you want you know so like i i got out and was like yo this thing is

00:38:13.740 coming fast and furious uh and i'm someone who by the way is more dubious of like robots performing

00:38:22.520 certain types of tasks but i have very smart friends who are like look at the factories in

00:38:27.640 China don't even have light switches anymore because it's all just robots doing stuff in the

00:38:31.280 dark and they can run 24-7, seven days a week. So the robots are real and coming. And America,

00:38:38.520 unfortunately, has seeded a lot of the robotics industry and manufacturing. And so we don't see

00:38:43.040 it in the same way. We don't feel it. And I will say, I think that there'll be human plumbers,

00:38:48.260 human HVAC repair for the foreseeable. But apparently the robots are coming. So it's like

00:38:56.300 AI and the cognitive work and the white collar work of which there are about 70 million jobs

00:38:59.940 and then the robots are up next good times Andrew Yang like you know I mean it's I you know I mean

00:39:07.980 I people sometimes joke Gavin about like you know am I like a doomer am I optimistic I mean I'm like

00:39:14.040 you I'm an entrepreneur so I'm optimistic by nature but I fear I wrote an article I said 0.97

00:39:21.060 i call this process the fuckinging um it's like the fuckinging of white collar workers um and uh

00:39:27.560 and then the robots will be the next wave and the and a proof point of that not to be modeling or 0.86

00:39:33.300 or you know too negative in this this subject but the proof point of that certainly manifesting now

00:39:39.620 at scale here in california fremont the old factory for tesla where he was doing about half

00:39:45.480 of the global production i mean remember tesla happened here first future happens here first and

00:39:50.400 And I appreciate the future is a four-letter word in the context of the anxiety out there.

00:39:54.560 And I appreciate you reminding me of that because the future always has its, you know,

00:39:59.580 California, man, you guys love it.

00:40:01.580 But Elon converting that factory as the future first EV factory has now pulled the Y and X model

00:40:08.720 off that line, is turning it over to humanoid robotics.

00:40:12.940 And the idea is to generate half a million to a million units of humanoid robots off that same

00:40:19.320 assembly line.

00:40:20.040 And that's happening, starting to convert in real time.

00:40:23.420 Yeah, yeah.

00:40:23.880 They're pioneers in using robots in various ways.

00:40:26.940 Elon's a very big believer.

00:40:28.880 And you're seeing it, man.

00:40:30.400 You know, you can go over to Fremont.

00:40:31.600 It's true.

00:40:32.440 I mean, California is the vanguard of a lot of what the rest of the country, you know,

00:40:37.880 gets to experience a little bit later, like your Waymo ride a decade ago, where it took,

00:40:41.760 you know, eight or nine years for it to reach the highways.

00:40:46.960 But it is true, man.

00:40:48.420 for a lot of the country, the future is a scary thing. And the next president, whoever that is,

00:40:55.400 has a very, very big task trying to get people actually positive about the future and not just

00:41:01.320 the, you know, values and feeling good about things, but about reconstituting the future

00:41:08.020 for their kids. Because, you know, like the kids are coming home. And sometimes there's

00:41:13.740 living in the basement. And as you know well, and I appreciate your reference to everything

00:41:18.940 that's going on with men and boys, you were kind enough not even to mention the 4x higher

00:41:23.000 suicide rates, deaths of despair for young men and boys and how my party in the past at least

00:41:29.980 has not focused enough attention. I think that's beginning to change. A lot of leaders now are

00:41:34.380 recognizing the crisis of our men and boys. But as it relates-

00:41:37.560 Kevin, I was told in the Democratic primary in 2020 not to talk about it. And I was like,

00:41:42.300 What are you talking about?

00:41:43.240 Are these not human beings and Americans?

00:41:44.980 And they were like, this is a Democratic primary, Andrew.

00:41:47.160 Like, you don't want to be talking about these problems.

00:41:50.000 I was told this is like a dog whistle.

00:41:52.340 And it's like a dog whistle.

00:41:53.280 I'm just talking about, like, I'm not trying to signal anything.

00:41:56.680 I'm just, like, talking about real life issues.

00:42:00.660 Reno mishap?

00:42:03.000 That's embarrassing.

00:42:04.460 You know what's not embarrassing?

00:42:06.140 Using FIG for a home improvement loan.

00:42:08.020 A quick, simple, and transparent offer in minutes.

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00:42:15.720 Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

00:42:17.400 We have some big news.

00:42:18.500 What's the news, Nick?

00:42:18.920 Huge news.

00:42:19.760 We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas.

00:42:23.600 We invented a podcast?

00:42:24.980 Well, we didn't invent it.

00:42:26.120 We just contributed to it.

00:42:27.360 We're the first people to do podcasts.

00:42:28.920 Yeah, a pretty wide range of podcasts.

00:42:30.940 We're starting a trend.

00:42:32.040 But this one's extra special.

00:42:34.120 So how did we actually come up with the name Hey Jonas, guys?

00:42:37.480 I honestly don't remember.

00:42:38.520 I think it was on a call about what we should

00:42:40.840 call it and

00:42:41.820 we were thinking I'm originally calling

00:42:44.820 it one of the early

00:42:46.440 names of our band before

00:42:48.540 Jonas Brothers

00:42:49.360 this is how you guys remember it going down

00:42:52.300 I have a very different memory of this

00:42:54.260 we were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast

00:42:57.100 where people could call in and say hey Jonas

00:42:58.680 and then I wrote down on my little

00:43:00.940 notepad hey Jonas and offered

00:43:02.980 it up as a potential title for the podcast

00:43:05.060 but thanks for remembering that guys

00:43:07.120 Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:43:12.440 Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

00:43:37.120 are starving for banter.

00:43:38.740 Listen to Humor Me

00:43:39.420 with Robert Smigel and friends

00:43:40.760 on the iHeartRadio app,

00:43:42.200 Apple Podcasts,

00:43:43.260 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:43:45.220 Last night,

00:43:46.040 a blown call changed the game.

00:43:47.620 This morning,

00:43:48.220 the internet lost its mind.

00:43:49.680 Highlights are trending,

00:43:50.840 opinions are flying,

00:43:51.860 and nobody's telling you

00:43:52.980 exactly what happened.

00:43:54.540 That's where Sports Slice comes in.

00:43:56.000 I'm Timbo.

00:43:56.800 Every episode,

00:43:57.760 we're cutting through the noise,

00:43:58.820 breaking down the plays,

00:43:59.880 the controversies,

00:44:00.760 and the stories

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00:44:02.360 We go straight to the source,

00:44:04.120 the athletes themselves,

00:44:05.380 their locker room stories,

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00:44:16.780 controversial calls we break it down give you context and ask the questions everybody wants

00:44:21.780 answered sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live

00:44:26.560 them listen to sports slice on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast

00:44:31.620 And for more, follow Timbo Slice Life 12 and the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

00:44:37.060 I do want to talk a little bit about what I'm building with Noble Mobile because I think you'd like it.

00:44:42.040 I think it's the best thing you would do.

00:44:43.920 I want to talk about that because it's a good segue.

00:44:46.460 And let me introduce it a little bit because I really appreciate what I'm told inspired you.

00:44:52.480 And I want to stress test whether or not I got this right.

00:44:55.480 That you, like, look, any parent, you've got a couple of kids.

00:44:58.420 I've got four kids.

00:44:59.220 We've all experienced. 1.00

00:45:00.400 So we just cannot compete with the damn phone. 1.00

00:45:02.680 I don't care how good you are as a parent, you know, with all due respect, you know, the phone's just going to kick your ass. 1.00

00:45:08.980 It just will. It does. 1.00

00:45:10.420 And social media is just it's sucking these kids in the vortex that you and I are old enough.

00:45:16.480 We used to go online to search for knowledge.

00:45:18.940 Now everything online is searching for our kids and these algorithms.

00:45:22.540 And they're just wiring these guys.

00:45:24.860 And that's, you know, that manosphere, that boyosphere, it's really a boyosphere, is, you know, created this, you know, a real toxic environment, particularly for young men. 0.72

00:45:34.020 And I think it goes back to that question. 0.87

00:45:35.680 But it connects to two things you said earlier that I want to just highlight and point out.

00:45:40.400 You mentioned that we made the mistake on social media and let's not make it on AI.

00:45:45.400 You mentioned the issue of men and boys and work that Scott Galloway has been doing in that space as well.

00:45:50.380 And so you, as a response to this, and the overwhelming evidence of what we've done to our kids with these devices, have come up with a really novel and interesting idea.

00:46:04.120 It's called Noble Mobile.

00:46:05.920 Tell us about it.

00:46:07.100 Yeah, and Scott Galloway is an investor, one of the original forces behind it.

00:46:12.320 So check it out.

00:46:13.700 I'm well known for trying to make people less broke, which I'm grateful for.

00:46:19.240 but but also to your point I've been concerned about our kids and us spending too much time on

00:46:26.660 what Hasan Minhaj calls our rectangle of sadness which if you think about the last time you got

00:46:32.560 really upset it was probably off of this guy or your kids being on this guy and so I thought how

00:46:38.940 can we help and I was inspired by what Mark Cuban did with cost plus drugs where he bought generic

00:46:45.800 drugs in bulk. And by the way, this is the sort of thing that I just know you're going to love

00:46:49.320 because it's trying to solve a large scale consumer problem, but doing it in the marketplace.

00:46:54.760 So then I went and looked at our costs and figured what else can you maybe cost plus in

00:46:59.240 American life? And so the average Californian's cost structure goes housing, healthcare, education,

00:47:06.120 food, fuel, transportation, media, and then wireless. The average American is spending $83

00:47:12.200 a month on their wireless plan. The average European is spending $35 a month on their

00:47:17.960 wireless plan. That delta, Gavin, comes to $100 billion a year in extra spending on wireless.

00:47:26.720 And of that $100 billion, $11 billion is going to Verizon shareholders as a dividend every year.

00:47:31.540 $7 billion is going to AT&T shareholders as a dividend every year. So you can see all this

00:47:35.740 extra spend. And so the first trick I had to pull was, can I get a better deal from any of

00:47:41.620 these carriers for Americans. So I went to the carriers and T-Mobile said, we're into it,

00:47:48.520 in part because it was me, Scott Galloway, and some of our friends being like, we're going to

00:47:52.900 try and do this for the American people. So number one, we cut your wireless bill typically in half

00:47:59.060 down to $42. But the kicker and what you described is that if you use less data, we give you the

00:48:05.020 money back at the end of the month. So it's an incentive to stop doom scrolling. When you're

00:48:10.060 doom scrolling, you know you're costing yourself money and we're kind of simple. We don't like to

00:48:13.420 cost ourselves money. So the average Noble Mobile user uses 17 to 20% less screen time in month two

00:48:20.900 because we realize we're being chumps when we're getting sucked down a rabbit hole because that

00:48:26.620 extra 30 minutes actually might cost us some money. So that is Noble Mobile and we're trying

00:48:32.820 to solve those two problems, both the money people are spending and also how much excess time

00:48:39.980 we're spending on our screens. I love it. Well done. And look, anyway, again, anyone with kids,

00:48:44.720 but you said it's not just our kids. I mean, we model the behavior, right? It's not what we say,

00:48:50.180 it's what we do. And they're watching us on our phone complaining about them being on theirs

00:48:53.960 and wondering, you know, not even recognizing this. It's like you're in my house at my dinner

00:48:59.480 table, Gavin, because it's hard for me to lecture my boys when then I'm going to like grab this

00:49:04.280 thing, you know, 10 seconds later. And so imagine a phone plan that could actually boost your kids

00:49:10.340 allowance if they spend a little bit less time on their phones. And then you can have

00:49:14.320 like a conversation about it every month to see like where the trends are and like what they're

00:49:19.260 doing more of. And for yourself too, like you can turn it into a friendly competition, which by the

00:49:26.320 way, this competition I lose every month because I'm a heavy phone user and I'm very open about it.

00:49:30.280 i love it well it's it's it's part of that same trend that you know even it may not be at the

00:49:36.280 scale the direction you want to take it but with flip phones now where people are just trying to

00:49:40.960 go back to you know what's old is new again man um i'm also throwing parties around the country

00:49:47.380 called offline parties where you check your phone at the door and then it feels like a 90s college

00:49:52.860 party we even had someone uh give a guy their phone number on a napkin just like used to happen

00:49:59.700 back in the day because like no one has their phone and they start talking and then they're

00:50:04.000 like yeah give me a call but we don't have your phone but it's a forcing function because what

00:50:09.140 do we all do at a party at a moment where awkward or alone or bored we bust our phone out and then

00:50:15.180 that kind of like shuts a door so at these offline parties people have to make eye contact have to

00:50:22.580 look at each other they kind of have to you know I wouldn't say have to drink I mean obviously

00:50:26.440 We don't force anyone to drink, though. We give out some drink tickets. It is funny how people I mean, it's not funny.

00:50:34.200 It's terrible how people don't party as much as they used to. Like you see it in the nightlife districts in I'm sure L.A.

00:50:42.660 and San Francisco. I've actually been to the downtown districts in L.A. and San Francisco hosting these events.

00:50:48.100 And let's just say, like, I felt like I was doing a service because people would come and say, like, wow, like I haven't had a night like this in a while.

00:50:55.440 Andrew you're talking to trust me the right guy here remember my I'm in the wine business in the

00:51:00.660 restaurant and bar business so I'm living this so you are that's actually where you and I first met

00:51:05.520 it was like you know I think you were already governor but it was in San Francisco and it was

00:51:08.940 like in a like in a bar restaurant and you talked about how that's how you came up and I'm sure it

00:51:15.280 pains you the same way it pains me because we spent all these evenings out in our young adult

00:51:20.500 years well it needs socializing it's connecting it's a sense of community it's not just the drink

00:51:25.680 and i get that you know i mean i love what scott your partner's been saying on this he he actually

00:51:29.900 is going further he wants to lower the drinking age but uh because he he's he's that sincere about

00:51:34.960 this the desperate need to people to get off you know you know get back and um and uh and connect

00:51:41.540 again i mean people young boys aren't even asking girls out on dates now they're scared to death

00:51:46.640 my 13 year old gavin said to me and my wife uh quite recently i think i'm gonna have an ai

00:51:53.000 girlfriend and then we were both shocked and appalled uh and we asked him why and he said 0.89

00:51:58.740 i think it's gonna be a lot easier than getting a human girlfriend uh and he's not wrong on that

00:52:03.420 side because getting a human girlfriend is not easy um and so i i then said hey christopher um

00:52:09.600 this is what making out with your ai girlfriend is gonna be like and i pretended it was like not

00:52:13.520 pleasant and all and i was like this is what making up your human girlfriend's like and i

00:52:16.620 took his mom and started kissing i was like which is better which is better you gotta go for uh the

00:52:21.780 human even if it's harder um but this is what our kids are are experiencing where um they're living

00:52:27.740 in a friction-free digital world and we all know that real relationships actually come with a level

00:52:33.340 of friction but that's the stuff of life it's the stuff of humanity what do you make of it you know

00:52:38.220 There was a headline this weekend, this last weekend, that China quite literally, the headline was around China making sure people don't have online girlfriends and how they're restricting access to social media, how their version of TikTok is radically different than ours and what content you can actually access and the hours you can actually access it.

00:52:58.540 you saw in China, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, where they actually find, a court

00:53:04.620 fined a company that fired a worker under the basis, under the auspices that that worker

00:53:11.200 was replaced, quote unquote, by AI.

00:53:14.140 And that worker was actually awarded tens of thousands of dollars.

00:53:20.100 What do you make of that?

00:53:22.240 And what do you make of their approach to some of this?

00:53:25.960 You know, I think it's fascinating.

00:53:27.580 I read that same book you did probably about how China is run by engineers and we're run by lawyers.

00:53:34.160 And so their approach to problems is very, very different than ours.

00:53:37.800 And there are advantages and disadvantages to both, you would say.

00:53:42.720 I can't imagine in America trying to identify who got fired due to AI and who didn't because it's going to happen in such a broad way.

00:53:53.620 I mean, our challenge, in my view, is trying to get people excited about the innovation and progress that's going on and like to feel included.

00:54:03.120 And right now, you know, like I think that's a really tough bar in terms of China's moderating its own social media and banning AI girlfriends.

00:54:14.080 I mean, the fact is, we all know what's going to happen in America.

00:54:18.480 Our kids are going to date less, fall in love less, get married less, have fewer kids.

00:54:23.060 schools are going to close around the country colleges are going to close you know you're

00:54:28.160 going to have increasing demographic challenges because you have an aging population I mean this

00:54:33.540 is all written clear as day and so China saw something similar going on it's like you know

00:54:38.380 what AI girlfriends at the margin are going to actually reduce the oomph inside of our kids to

00:54:45.660 go out and meet each other so let's get rid of them you know you can see the rationale very very 0.59

00:54:50.920 clearly um and and i do think we can borrow some pages from their book in terms of actually

00:54:56.000 figuring out uh what's happening with our young people in particular um and trying to get in front

00:55:01.240 of it um trying to help in real ways well in in let's i want to close on a beat of optimism there's

00:55:08.440 a lot of punditry obviously more broadly on in compare contrast in the in terms of the approach

00:55:15.000 that china's taking in the competition that marks i think a lot of uh the conversation we're having

00:55:20.380 as well with China as it relates to superintelligence and cybersecurity and national security more

00:55:25.680 broadly defined and how we have an advantage, the issues around chips and American stack,

00:55:31.360 all those debates that we didn't even get into. But there's also a school of thought that you

00:55:38.260 and I may be a little too pessimistic about where AI is taking us. That, you know, I was reading

00:55:43.760 an Andreessen associated blog the other day. It was pretty damn convincing that, you know,

00:55:49.880 Sure, there'll be some, you know, there'll be a moment in time.

00:55:53.160 There'll certainly be categories of jobs and transitions, but we always mind those transitions 0.88

00:55:57.600 and that the doomers, or at least those that are expressing so much alarm, that are feeding

00:56:02.740 the anxiety, that they're just boneheaded once again.

00:56:07.700 They're wrong.

00:56:09.160 And that we're going to come out with augmentation jobs that we couldn't even conceive of.

00:56:13.640 We're already experiencing those jobs today in some respects, maybe not at the scale and

00:56:17.640 consciousness, most people imagine. And a lot of the judgery, what gets repeated gets replaced.

00:56:22.380 That's a good thing that we move away from that. And we can find some of the things that you're

00:56:26.120 looking for with your UBI. I mean, what do you say to that train of thought? And I imagine

00:56:34.020 you may identify a little bit with it. What's a more positive picture you can paint here?

00:56:40.740 The positive opportunity is flipping from a scarcity economy to an abundance economy.

00:56:47.640 Where right now, GDP might be $84,000 a head in America, which is significant. I mean, it's more even than it was when I was running for president in 2020. And AI is going to push that past $100,000 per head.

00:57:03.540 so we're getting to a point where you could meaningfully situate people where people are

00:57:08.720 actually living better and like more fulfilled happier healthier it's just how do you take this

00:57:14.420 value that's being created and translate it to the average american family or household and i think

00:57:18.720 that's what the andres and blog misses it's like do i think they're going to be fantastic innovations

00:57:22.720 yeah 100 percent like do i think that that uh that kid down the street uh who right now is

00:57:28.780 kind of listless and directionless is going to be, you know, dragged into all these fantastic

00:57:33.820 new opportunities? I do not. You know who else doesn't think so? The kid himself or their

00:57:38.300 parents. So like that's the burden I think the Andreessen School has to try and figure out how

00:57:45.340 to bridge that gap. But if we're ending on an optimistic note, the top line growth will be

00:57:51.320 there. The opportunities will be there for us to really address poverty and a lot of other

00:57:56.240 large-scale problems in a way that have not been possible before. A mindset of scarcity made sense

00:58:01.380 in this country when our, I mean, not mine, because like, you know, I mean, actually, Gavin,

00:58:06.220 I don't know if you know this. My parents met as immigrant students at UC Berkeley in the 60s.

00:58:11.920 My brother was named after the Lawrence Hall of Science and was born in San Francisco. So there's

00:58:16.340 a lot of California in my DNA. But when Americans first showed up to these shores, if they didn't

00:58:23.140 grow or hunt their food, they died. So there was like this mindset of scarcity that kind of made

00:58:28.300 sense. It's like, if you don't work, you die. Now, fast forward, AI is about to switch us

00:58:34.900 to a zone where we're going to have trillion dollar firms and trillionaires. And there's

00:58:41.060 going to be more than enough to go around, especially when the robots come, where if we

00:58:45.940 can get our acts together, we can actually solve societal problems in a way that was not possible

00:58:51.260 at any other point in human history.

00:58:53.280 So that's the hope.

00:58:54.300 That's a very California message, I dare say,

00:58:56.700 because, you know, you guys have been walking this walk

00:59:01.140 before much of the rest of the country.

00:59:03.640 No, and I appreciate it.

00:59:04.620 I mean, the promise is not, you know, is there.

00:59:08.220 It's not just peril.

00:59:09.060 It relates to what could happen

00:59:10.260 in the healthcare space in particular.

00:59:12.080 And we're already, you know,

00:59:13.800 seeing some real progress promoted,

00:59:16.380 you know, earlier screenings and detections

00:59:19.080 and things as complicated as pancreatic cancer and the like and, you know, the sort of super MRI

00:59:24.280 and the opportunities in drug development. Of course, the flip side of drug development,

00:59:29.260 biology is the downside of that in terms of the security risks. But that abundance mindset

00:59:34.760 is, I think, also part of this broader conversation. But your point is, I think,

00:59:39.980 spot on. And I think it's a good place to land because I think it is the bridge between the two.

00:59:44.440 It's about growth and inclusion.

00:59:46.960 It cannot be.

00:59:47.960 And we will have, as you suggested, you've said it three times, we're going to have the

00:59:51.180 first trillionaires this year.

00:59:52.600 And maybe I think it's plural.

00:59:53.940 It's not just singular.

00:59:55.200 I mean, certainly Elon will be on that list after SpaceX slash XAI slash Starlink goes

01:00:01.300 public.

01:00:02.280 And right behind them is, you know, what's going to happen.

01:00:05.020 It'll be interesting to see what happens with Sam's shop and OpenAI and their IPO in just

01:00:09.560 a matter of weeks, months here.

01:00:11.140 All of this is going to take shape and anthropic.

01:00:14.100 And and that abundance is going to create more anxiety and that concentration of wealth is going to create more, I think, insecurity for even those that are the wealth creators themselves.

01:00:26.200 And so this notion of sharing that abundance and having a society where everybody sees themselves as participating and fully, you know, fully, as you suggest, consider they see themselves in the future is foundational.

01:00:43.060 Yeah, I'm pro innovation and pro success. I don't begrudge anyone their wealth, like as long as their neighbors aren't falling into the abyss, you know, at scale. And I mean, that's, and the thing I say to some of my very wealthy friends, and they not agree, is that everyone is less happy in a vastly unequal society.

01:01:05.100 you know like no one wants to have bulletproof cars and private security for their kids and all

01:01:09.860 this stuff like it's miserable um and so the enlightened self-interest thing to do is like

01:01:14.420 look i can be successful um and let's solve some problems uh these so that that's my school of

01:01:23.180 thought i i you know since you probably know some of these people you probably naturally fall

01:01:27.960 someplace similar uh and that to me is something that even many of them will get behind like the

01:01:33.700 the caricature of some of these people is like, they need every last dollar.

01:01:36.980 It's like, look, you know, like, sure.

01:01:39.680 They probably like their money. Um, and they, they don't necessarily,

01:01:42.600 you know, like want to port it over to the government in various ways because,

01:01:46.140 you know, they might not have like the highest confidence.

01:01:50.120 But I think many of them can be drawn into a meaningful conversation, uh,

01:01:54.800 about keeping society whole.

01:01:57.260 I agree.

01:01:57.680 And that's where I think we're missing that national leadership right now.

01:02:00.800 And that opportunity presents itself, particularly in light of these IPOs, the situational moment demands of that.

01:02:07.280 And look, if we quoted Voltaire, let's quote Aristotle, and he said it as well or better than we ever could, you can't live a good life.

01:02:14.660 You can't live a good life in an unjust society.

01:02:17.900 And that kind of wealth disparity, that kind of imbalance between the rich and the poor is the oldest, as Plutarch said, and most fatal ailment of all republics.

01:02:27.160 So this society is just simply going to fray.

01:02:29.860 And so I think this light and self-interest, there's a real opportunity and shot to bridge that.

01:02:35.300 So I appreciate that.

01:02:36.660 And thank you for giving me a shot to, you know, of adrenaline, reconnecting with you, talking in more entrepreneurial terms about the future and how we can accelerate it, but steer it with the kind of guardrails and values that all of us deserve.

01:02:56.000 Thanks, Gavin.

01:02:57.000 Thanks for having me on.

01:02:59.860 Hey guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers.

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This is Gavin Newsom - May 27, 2026

And, This Is Who Wins In An AI World With Andrew Yang

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