In this episode, Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins host Danielle Robay to discuss his new book, How to Live a Longer Life, and why we should be more optimistic about the future of our planet s population.
00:00:04.440Just like great shoes, great books take you places.
00:00:08.240Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.
00:00:13.400I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.
00:00:17.920I'm Danielle Robay and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club.
00:00:21.220The new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcast,
00:00:24.480where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off.
00:00:28.460Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry and add way too many books to your TBR pile.
00:00:38.860Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:45.760Do you remember Vine? It changed the internet forever and it vanished in its prime.
00:00:51.420I'm Benedict Townsend and this is Vine, Six Seconds That Changed the World.
00:00:56.020The untold story of genius, betrayal and the app that died so that TikTok could thrive.
00:01:03.160From overnight stars to the fall that no one saw coming, we're breaking down what made Vine iconic.
00:01:09.820Listen to Vine on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:01:15.380Hey guys, it's Janae aka Cheekies from Cheekies and Chill Podcast.
00:01:21.040And I'm bringing you an all new mini podcast series called Sincerely, Janae.
00:01:25.440Sure, I'm a singer, author, businesswoman and podcaster, but at the end of the day, I am human.
00:01:31.280And that's why I'm sharing my ups and downs with you in real time and on the go.
00:01:36.520Listen to Cheekies and Chill on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:41.560Stay informed, empowered and ahead of the curve with the BIN News This Hour podcast.
00:01:50.560Updated hourly to bring you the latest stories shaping the black community.
00:01:54.580From breaking headlines to cultural milestones, the Black Information Network delivers the facts,
00:01:59.860the voices and the perspectives that matter 24-7 because our stories deserve to be heard.
00:02:05.880Listen to the BIN News This Hour podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:18:06.400I read in the past one of the great success stories in the last half century in terms of just, you know, give me your over-under on fluoride.
00:18:14.240Yeah, well, so this is what I appreciate about podcasts like this, because there's a nuance to this, and you can actually get into the nuance a bit.
00:18:22.260Fluoride in really high doses can be problematic.
00:18:26.280It can cause something known as skeletal fluorosis.
00:18:47.900That's an indication of high fluoride levels.
00:18:50.080And I think most recently and interestingly, there's been concerns about neurotoxicity.
00:18:56.200There were studies done, all of them outside this country, where fluoride levels are much higher than the United States,
00:19:01.280where they showed that moms, for example, during pregnancy, if they had high fluoride exposure, their kids later in life, it was associated with a lower IQ.
00:19:15.560These are hard studies to do, and there was some, you know, getting the methods right on these studies is challenging.
00:19:21.380But I think there was enough of a concern about that for people to really start paying attention.
00:19:26.100To give you a little bit of context, the levels that we're talking about are at least twice as high as the levels in the drinking water in the United States.
00:19:38.240And in medicine, we always use this phrase, the dose makes the poison.
00:19:43.020Things in any, just about anything in a high enough dose could potentially be problematic.
00:19:47.060But it's, you know, it definitely gets people's attention.
00:19:51.540What I would say, when you talk about the fact that it's touted as one of the greatest public health achievements of the last century, I saw that as well.
00:20:00.080And I think that there's a kernel of truth to that.
00:20:03.000But the nuance is that most of the data that exists on the benefits of fluoride exists before 1975.
00:20:08.9601975 was a time frame when dental care became much more widely available and fluoridated toothpaste.
00:20:17.680So prior to that, fluoridating the water probably had an incrementally a much bigger benefit than it does today.
00:20:24.700So it doesn't provide as much benefit.
00:20:28.400I think it's low risk because the levels don't get as high as they used to.
00:20:33.620They don't get as high in the United States, I should say, as they do in other countries.
00:21:08.320Calgary and Canada, they stopped fluoridating their water back in 2011, I believe, but then brought it back because cavity rates went up.
00:21:18.360And there was a new study that said in the United States, how much of an impact would it have to take fluoride out of the water?
00:21:24.800And they said it could potentially be, you know, 25 million more cavities within the next five years, 50 million cavities within the next 10 years.
00:21:35.060So, you know, I think we need better dental care overall.
00:21:38.960And this is almost a policy discussion.
00:21:40.680I think people, it's hard to get dental care.
00:21:44.120But I think if we had fluoride rinses, if kids got better dental care, then I think the incremental benefit of fluoride goes down even more.
00:21:54.420Secretary Kennedy has been talking about fluoride for a long time, heavy metals in general, but fluoride in particular for a long time.
00:22:00.180And, you know, as with these other things we're talking about, there's a nuance to it.
00:22:04.520I don't think it's as big a public health issue now as it was 50 years ago, 60 years ago.
00:22:11.440But, and we can even model how much of an impact it would have.
00:22:15.240But I think it really speaks to the fact that we need better dental care overall.
00:22:19.960Boy, I really appreciate the nuance of the response.
00:22:22.860And just look, it goes to, I think, our frustration just generally as consumers and as people that, you know, just are so desperate just for the facts and a deeper understanding.
00:22:34.560And you talked earlier about the politics, these binaries, and how everything is seen through a political lens.
00:22:42.080It's just the larger issue of misinformation.
00:22:45.960I mean, you know, obviously COVID seemed to expose a lot of that stress and anxiety.
00:22:50.540And, you know, obviously our politics has been, I think, profoundly shaped sort of post-COVID framework.
00:22:57.660And I think in some respects significantly so, obviously with RFK as HHS secretary in terms of health care policy today.
00:23:06.180What's your, you know, as you reflect back on, you know, your own experience living through, sort of helping us all through the pandemic experience and COVID.
00:23:20.540How do we get back to the kind of platform that we need in order to row in the same direction as a country to be prepared again, my gosh, for another novel virus moving forward where we're not at each other's throats.
00:23:33.780We're not talking down to each other, past each other.
00:23:37.120Help give us a sense of how we get back into the trust and truth space.
00:23:41.560You know, I think it's tough for sure.
00:23:45.420And as a medical reporter, you know, I think I have a really front row seat to how this is all sort of unfolded.
00:23:52.240I'd say one thing just for historical reference is that if you go back and you look at the 1918 flu pandemic, that was a time when obviously we didn't have cell phones, social media, you know, rapid sort of spread of information.
00:24:04.200But there was still a lot of distrust overall of basic public health recommendations.
00:24:11.520There was a fair that was supposed to take place, I believe, in St. Louis and or maybe in Philadelphia.
00:24:17.920Philadelphia and St. Louis were the two cities.
00:24:19.780One city said, how can we possibly do a big fair like this in the middle of a pandemic?
00:24:23.680And the other city said, we don't think it's a big deal.
00:24:27.600So they took it on and they had 12 times the rate of flu deaths as the city that chose not to do it.
00:24:33.120Point being that there has been this skepticism that I think exists just in human nature forever, you know.
00:24:40.540And I'll go so far as to say this, Governor.
00:24:44.220Maybe some of that skepticism is necessary.
00:24:46.180You know, I think that, you know, if we look at human beings like organisms, some people just have their antennas raised really, really high.
00:24:58.600And I think when your antenna is raised really, really high, two things happen.
00:25:36.200I think with regard to misinformation and even disinformation, purposeful misinformation, I think my largest concern right now is that we're getting to the point, and I hope it changes, and I'm an optimist.
00:25:55.280But I think right now we're at a point where nobody believes anything.
00:25:58.580I was talking to my youngest daughter about a year, year and a half ago, and I was very close to Senator John McCain, and she showed me some meme on TikTok or Instagram or something about John McCain.
00:26:13.740She knew that we were close, and especially after he had his brain tumor and things.
00:26:18.320And this was a funny meme, but it somehow suggested that he was alive and that his whole death was a hoax, right?
00:26:59.680And I think unless you can touch somebody, unless you know somebody personally, you don't really trust them anymore, which I think is really problematic.
00:27:11.200And I think that's where we're headed.
00:27:12.280It starts to hyper-localize suspicion of everybody.
00:27:16.080And I think that's where we're headed.
00:27:16.920So I think for me, you know, as a reporter, instead of constantly combating misinformation, which is like playing whack-a-mole all day long, just continuing to try and put out good information and explain things in a way that is accessible to people and leans into the nuance and the uncertainty of things.
00:28:08.300A virus is a national security threat.
00:28:10.320But we saw what it did to our country.
00:28:12.480If we're able to apply the precautionary principle at a policy level, so things just go into effect, as opposed to Seattle's doing this and New York is doing this and Alabama's doing this and Florida's saying we're not going to do any of that.
00:28:53.620If we're in denial about that, then we're not going to build that level of trust moving forward for those that feel very, very differently.
00:29:02.240And I think, you know, one thing that I think was a real learning point, I think, you know, as doctors, if we're, you know, recommending – I was in the operating room all day yesterday, you know, taking out brain tumors and doing things like that.
00:29:14.300We know that it leaves a toll on people to do that, to recommend chemotherapy.
00:29:18.900We know the impact of that on their lives.
00:29:21.940We think the benefit is that it could cure their cancer, but we know it's going to be – it's going to be tough sledding for them for a while.
00:29:27.940How do you convey that at a societal level, you know, closing schools, the impact of that?
00:29:33.300You know, that was tough on my kids, you know.
00:29:35.000So to really, I think, be very mindful of the impact – I'm not saying the decisions are wrong, but being really mindful of the impact of those decisions on people, it's tough.
00:29:48.500You know, as doctors, I think we're a little bit more trained toward it because we have to, like, look at risk-reward for everything.
00:29:55.380But I think assessing risk and balancing that reward as a country is hard, and I think that gets back to where we started, this precautionary principle.
00:30:07.580Let's not accelerate around the blind curves here.
00:30:10.960Let's hit the brakes a little bit, you know.
00:30:13.120And I think that that's – still, to me, that still makes sense.
00:30:18.500Just like great shoes, great books take you places.
00:30:23.320Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.
00:30:28.480I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of, like, butterflies.
00:30:33.060I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts.
00:30:39.860Every week, I sit down with your favorite book lovers – authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more – to explore the stories that shape us.
00:34:23.320So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own.
00:34:28.520Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:34:34.420Sometimes it's hard to remember, but...
00:34:37.760Going through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of their life.
00:34:44.160That was my dad, reminding me and so many others who need to hear it, that our trauma is not our shame to carry, and that we have big, bold, and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us.
00:34:54.320I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea Tratate.
00:34:58.700On my new podcast, The Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like, and sounds like, in real time.
00:35:07.880Each week, I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us.
00:35:14.640We're going to talk about the adultification of Black girls, mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing.
00:35:20.160The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space.
00:35:41.920I'm curious, you know, speaking of sense, speaking of risk, speaking of trust,
00:35:48.520where are we to make sense of AI and medicine?
00:35:53.480We're seeing just runaway costs in healthcare.
00:35:55.840It seems like every other industry has found efficiencies.
00:35:59.160Every other industry, costs seem to go down.
00:36:01.860It seems like more technology is introduced to the healthcare sector.
00:36:05.300Our costs seem to go up and up and up.
00:36:08.420Is AI overhyped in terms of medical expenses?
00:36:12.300Is it overhyped in terms of research and discovery?
00:36:14.840Is it underhyped as it relates to imaging benefits and just sort of super capacity to address chronic disease and solve for some of life's great evils and cancers?
00:36:26.340I think it's going to be magnificent, ultimately, what AI can do for healthcare.
00:36:32.580It's going to need guardrails, but I think even those are, you know, very trainable.
00:36:40.300I mean, there's great companies, one of them out of California called Open Evidence, where you're already starting to see.
00:36:46.700Like for me, I'll give you an example.
00:36:48.460Guy comes into the office with back pain and leg pain and has got a herniated disc in their lumbar spine, the lower back.
00:36:57.980I could ask 10 different spine surgeons and maybe get 11 different answers.
00:37:04.060AI could look at 9 billion pieces of data within a fraction of seconds and said, here are 50,000 other people who are just like the person you're describing, and here are their various outcomes based on evaluating their medical records and doing this all in a de-identified way.
00:37:19.080My residents are already walking around talking to their phones as they're walking into a patient room to figure out the best approach to, you know, whatever ails their patient, you know.
00:37:32.600I think I sat on the subcommittee for AI for the National Academy of Medicine, and I think one of the things that really struck me as we were creating these guardrails was this idea that we still have to think of AI from a trust but verify sort of model.
00:37:49.320It's wildly effective at finding breast cancers, for example, on mammograms, but sometimes it errs wildly as well, and, you know, these hallucinations, as people call them.
00:38:02.120I think they're already starting to get better about that.
00:38:05.300I think it's going to, you know, we've been talking about big data, you know, for decades now.
00:38:10.580AI is actually going to be able to make sense of that big data and I think make it valuable for patients.
00:38:16.200I'll tell you a quick anecdote, you know, if you've been to the hospital lately or a clinic and you got a letter from, you know, sort of summarizing your care, it probably was generated by an AI platform.
00:38:28.820And most of, and when they, when they blinded these letters and they compared them to actual letters written by doctors or nurses and then gave them to random people, what they found was the AI letters were often referred to as more human, the human letters, which I thought was.
00:38:44.620Is that just, is that the state of doctors?
00:38:48.780I think if you said to me, hey, you know, my daughter's going to get married, you know, in July, you know, and I'm really excited about that, but you're here for your herniated disc.
00:38:57.640I may have deprioritized that information, whereas an AI platform may have listened to that and said, hey, governor, I hope the wedding went well with your daughter.
00:39:05.160And, you know, just these human touches, you had these moments where humans were looking at these AI letters and they were pausing at the moment that they read these human touches.
00:39:15.360And it was almost like humans learning from machines how to be more human, I think.
00:39:24.780And, you know, I think one thing about new technologies is that there's always a disparity in terms of haves and have nots when they first come out.
00:39:34.700Before mammography, black women and white women had similar rates of breast cancer.
00:39:39.520After mammography, breast cancer rates went down overall, but much more so for white women than black women.
00:39:44.820We see those disparities with AI already.
00:39:47.460So we have to address disparities, make sure this is very available and accessible to people.
00:39:52.360But I think it's going to it's going to change health care.
00:39:54.880We're going to come up with new treatments and the right clinical decision making much more quickly as a result of AI.
00:40:01.160In 30 years, you're still doing brain surgeries or as a robot doing them?
00:41:29.340And I'm just trying to, you know, I'm trying not only to not get fined today, but not get arrested tomorrow, the next few months.
00:41:37.680It's crazy what's going on in this country.
00:41:39.800But I will say, though, on a serious note, just, you know, it's also remarkable how just trying to just absorb what's happening with health care policy from the middle.
00:41:50.260We didn't even get into Medicaid cuts.
00:41:52.200We didn't even get to the broader issues associated with the quote unquote reorg at HHS and all the cuts to, you know, just people out there promoting vaccines, HIV issues and treatments.
00:42:06.020I mean, this is this a lot going on and it's hard to absorb just 100 plus days in.
00:42:31.400It doesn't mean we stop trying, you know, keep out.
00:42:34.280Well, I love what I mean to your point.
00:42:35.860I mean, I made the point earlier, but your podcast is fabulous and it's great to see you, you know, out there doing especially with the just those sort of short clips where you're answering those tough questions.
00:42:46.140But doing with the kind of nuance I thought and I mean this sincerely, your response on the fluoride is just something we don't hear.
00:42:52.920And it's hard to have a segment that is that comprehensive because it just provides a different level of appreciation for perspective on this.
00:42:59.840It's it's not just as simple as yes and no.
00:43:04.500And, you know, I'm a dad, you know, I mean, first and foremost and a husband, but a dad, you know, who think like I do put myself in the position of those people who are the honest skeptics.
00:43:17.480I'm an honest skeptic, you know, most most scientists are honest skeptics, I think.
00:43:21.640And I think that I think that that helps.
00:43:24.660You know, I would I do that for my kid?
00:44:37.400Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.
00:44:46.020I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.
00:44:50.020I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcast, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off.
00:45:01.700Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry and add way too many books to your TBR pile.
00:45:11.440Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:45:18.780Hey, guys, it's Janae, a.k.a. Cheekies from Cheekies and Chill Podcast.
00:45:23.640And I'm bringing you an all new mini podcast series called Sincerely, Janae.
00:45:28.040Sure, I'm a singer, author, businesswoman and podcaster.
00:45:31.580But at the end of the day, I am human.
00:45:33.780And that's why I'm sharing my ups and downs with you in real time and on the go.
00:45:38.360Listen to Cheekies and Chill on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.