This is Gavin Newsom - Extended Conversation： How To Live Forever With Dr. Sanjay Gupta

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00:02:54.120 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:02:56.720 And we continue with Dr. Gupta.

00:03:00.880 So I want to talk in, Sanjay, because you've been, I mean, you've been one of the great thought leaders

00:03:07.140 and written so much about longevity and you talk about nutrition and health

00:03:11.840 and some of the remarkable breakthroughs that are just, they seem just shockingly common sense.

00:03:17.560 I mean, just sort of foundational, just leading with common sense.

00:03:21.520 Eating well, sleeping well, hydrating, you know, socialization, et cetera.

00:03:28.240 But you've been writing particularly about some breakthroughs and some examples of real successes

00:03:35.480 as it relates to longevity and wellness that give, I think, distill a sense of well-being,

00:03:41.420 at least to people like me, that with an aging grain population,

00:03:45.120 that we should be more optimistic than I think some of us have painted the future.

00:03:49.380 With what we know now, not any new medical breakthrough or some big development,

00:03:57.240 I think we could greatly, greatly expand life expectancy and health span.

00:04:03.240 That's a term I'm sure you've heard, but health span versus lifespan.

00:04:06.900 Nice.

00:04:07.280 It's the number of really functional years you have left.

00:04:09.660 I think the data has become very compelling on this.

00:04:13.920 I think anecdotally we've known this for a while by looking at other countries around the world

00:04:17.480 and saying they spend a lot less, they do pretty simple things,

00:04:21.560 they walk to, you know, they meet friends as opposed to driving, they eat right,

00:04:26.960 they eat fresh foods, healthier foods, they sleep well.

00:04:30.400 Some of the healthiest communities in the world have either non-existent health care systems

00:04:35.480 or very, very small health care systems.

00:04:38.080 So, and that's heart disease, that's dementia, that's diabetes,

00:04:42.320 all at a fraction of the rates that we have in the United States.

00:04:45.620 They don't have anything that we don't have.

00:04:48.040 What's happening to us is not because of what we're not doing,

00:04:51.420 it's because of what we are doing to our bodies.

00:04:55.080 But I'll tell you something interesting, Governor,

00:04:56.860 if you talk about longevity overall or aging sort of as a construct,

00:05:01.860 what scientists will say, including Eric Topol, who you may know in your state,

00:05:08.500 aging is really made up of several different things.

00:05:12.000 It's not just revolutions of planets.

00:05:13.960 It's how well your immune system is working, how much inflammation you have,

00:05:17.540 how much something that you have known as senescence,

00:05:20.880 how many cells that are in a senescent stage.

00:05:23.300 There's seven different things like this that you can sort of think about

00:05:26.040 that actually make up aging, that will determine your health span.

00:05:30.800 Far more important than your genetics.

00:05:34.960 We can control many of those things.

00:05:37.860 We can improve our immune function.

00:05:39.340 We can decrease our inflammation.

00:05:40.820 We can decrease senescence.

00:05:42.440 And there's all these different ways to do it now that have great data behind that.

00:05:46.820 There are certain medications, and I'm not hawking any medications here,

00:05:51.000 but something like metformin even,

00:05:53.240 which is something that's gotten a lot of attention.

00:05:56.180 Nils Berzelai, who's a longevity researcher out of Sinai,

00:05:59.120 will say metformin is probably the closest thing we have to targeting all these different

00:06:03.840 cardinal issues of aging, which I find really, really interesting.

00:06:09.280 I wouldn't call it a breakthrough.

00:06:11.180 I would call it a recognition of what aging really is,

00:06:14.920 what is really happening to the human body, especially as we get older,

00:06:18.240 why our function decreases, and what can be done about it.

00:06:22.440 But you're quite right.

00:06:23.760 It comes down to the big three, how we nourish ourselves, how we move, and how we rest.

00:06:28.180 But there's more nuance to it now based on a lot of the data people like Eric and Nils are collecting.

00:06:33.800 And at the core, I mean, you've written about, I mean, when it comes to inflammation,

00:06:39.480 obviously sugars, issues around dairy, meats.

00:06:44.260 I mean, what's, I mean, are you solidified in that sort of core sort of understanding

00:06:51.560 that limiting, obviously, sugars seems to make a lot of sense?

00:06:55.160 I don't know if everybody's familiar with dairy as a component concern.

00:07:00.140 And then we can have the great meat debate as well.

00:07:05.220 But are these sort of, is these foundational in terms of addressing particularly issues around Alzheimer's and dementia?

00:07:11.240 I mean, I know Dean Ornish is out here in Sausalito.

00:07:14.200 California has been pushing a lot in that space.

00:07:16.420 What's your sense on the basis of all your research and work?

00:07:19.840 Well, sugar I'd put into its own category, like I think you're alluding to.

00:07:23.200 Sugar is toxic.

00:07:25.260 I mean, I did a piece for 60 Minutes years ago called The Toxic Truth.

00:07:29.000 And it was all about sugar.

00:07:31.660 And it is remarkable to me what sugar does to the body.

00:07:35.880 Our bodies just don't know how to process the amount of sugar that we eat nowadays.

00:07:40.880 It basically hits our liver like a tsunami.

00:07:44.520 And I think what's surprising to people is that because the body can't handle all that sugar,

00:07:49.980 it churns out these byproducts, which are typically what are called LDL particles,

00:07:55.420 low-density lipoprotein particles.

00:07:57.320 You would typically think my LDL is going to go up because I ate a cheeseburger, which is true,

00:08:02.300 but it might go up even more from a sugary drink.

00:08:05.700 That's how toxic sugar can be to the body. 0.61

00:08:08.480 So sugar I'd almost put into its own category.

00:08:11.320 But I think with regard to the other things, dairy and even meat, I do eat meat.

00:08:16.300 I'm not a total vegetarian.

00:08:17.560 I hope Dean's not listening because he's vegan.

00:08:20.240 But I think it really has to do with how those foods are processed.

00:08:24.300 It's all the other junk that's added to a lot of those foods that I think make them really problematic

00:08:29.460 and increase inflammation.

00:08:31.260 What Dean was able to show, and I thought it was fascinating,

00:08:35.720 was that going on a vegan diet was greatly associated with decreasing inflammation in the body and in the brain

00:08:43.320 and could stall and potentially reverse Alzheimer's disease.

00:08:51.300 That was a big deal.

00:08:53.460 I mean, people, once you get diagnosed with dementia, it is a downward spiral from there on out.

00:08:58.900 He was able to show that you could at least stall it, if not reverse it,

00:09:02.840 by simply changing diet and increasing activity as well.

00:09:06.200 But diet was the big thing.

00:09:08.600 And we've anecdotally sort of known this to be true, but I think he was really able to show this.

00:09:14.140 And I think that's certainly made me reconsider my eating.

00:09:18.240 So I've cut back on meat.

00:09:20.060 But, you know, I got three teenagers.

00:09:24.460 You got to balance your life with what you know.

00:09:28.460 I mean, if we were going to live forever, Gavin, if that was a – can I call you Gavin, by the way?

00:09:32.740 Please do.

00:09:33.360 If there was a possibility we could live forever, that immortality was attainable,

00:09:41.240 I might live my life differently.

00:09:43.300 But I think you've got to balance your joy with your lifestyle.

00:09:48.340 And I'm a very healthy guy.

00:09:50.880 I exercise every day intensely, but also take long walks with my wife and my dogs and stuff like that.

00:09:56.980 So I have more moderate activity as well.

00:09:59.720 Eat healthily.

00:10:00.920 Don't eat sugar at all.

00:10:02.660 Don't drink alcohol.

00:10:03.980 Alcohol's terrible.

00:10:05.200 I mean, why do we – well, anyways.

00:10:08.600 I'm in the wine business.

00:10:09.940 You're talking to the wrong guy.

00:10:11.060 But I completely appreciate your point.

00:10:12.920 My guess is when you drink wine – and I have drank wine, and I can appreciate its virtues.

00:10:19.000 But do you not – do you not get a terrible night's sleep?

00:10:23.840 I mean, I track my sleep now.

00:10:27.280 If I have a –

00:10:27.660 This works against my personal interests.

00:10:29.820 I'm not going to say no.

00:10:31.460 Okay.

00:10:32.360 I'm waiting on sugar.

00:10:33.660 And, of course, there's a byproduct of the wine as well.

00:10:36.500 But by the way, are you a coffee drinker?

00:10:38.680 Everybody's got – is it mushroom coffee?

00:10:40.460 People are – what's going on with coffee?

00:10:42.120 Should I be drinking coffee?

00:10:44.060 Yeah.

00:10:44.440 I didn't know about the mushroom coffee, but I –

00:10:46.620 I don't know.

00:10:47.380 Everyone's saying you should try mushroom coffee.

00:10:49.180 I don't know.

00:10:49.860 I'm asking you.

00:10:51.560 I like – so, you know, the funny thing is I really did not drink coffee up until a few years ago.

00:10:57.560 And it was for no particular reason other than I just didn't like the taste of it.

00:11:03.000 It was unusual because most surgical residents and medical students, they start drinking coffee, you know, sort of, you know, early 20s,

00:11:10.760 and it becomes part of their lifestyle.

00:11:12.160 I just never liked it.

00:11:14.840 But during the pandemic, actually, is when I started drinking coffee.

00:11:18.360 I was waking up at 4.30 in the morning every day and working until 11.30 at night, you know, for a couple years in a row.

00:11:25.420 And my wife actually introduced me to this coffee.

00:11:28.820 I don't know if I were allowed to talk about brands, but I really like this.

00:11:31.420 It's called Purity Coffee.

00:11:32.880 And it's pure coffee.

00:11:34.580 It's just – it's got no – none of the additives that we were talking about.

00:11:38.520 It's pesticide-free.

00:11:42.060 And to me, it tasted really clean.

00:11:44.200 When I drank coffee in the past, it always felt like I could almost taste the aftertaste to it.

00:11:49.780 And this was just a really good coffee.

00:11:52.660 And then I started really doing a deep dive into coffee.

00:11:55.520 And I think, you know, it's associated with all these different health benefits.

00:11:59.780 It's cardiac, dementia, inflammation overall.

00:12:03.920 So I drink a cup a day, sometimes two cups a day.

00:12:06.520 And I think it's – I think it's been really good for me.

00:12:09.100 All right.

00:12:09.400 Well, I think – I mean, as the guy who's got a few cups behind him, in front of him, on the side.

00:12:15.880 Is it just black coffee or what are you drinking?

00:12:17.760 It's just black coffee.

00:12:18.860 No, I'm not adding any of that cream, any of that nonsense.

00:12:21.720 Don't add that stuff.

00:12:22.980 And it takes a little bit to get used to the taste, I think, of just the black coffee.

00:12:26.100 But once it's there, you add –

00:12:27.240 Once you're there on the other side, you can hold strong.

00:12:33.020 Just like great shoes, great books take you places.

00:12:36.180 Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

00:12:41.840 I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of, like, butterflies.

00:12:46.400 I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club.

00:12:49.600 The new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts.

00:12:53.320 Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more,

00:12:58.760 to explore the stories that shape us, on the page and off.

00:13:02.660 I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep-diving book talk theories,

00:13:06.960 and obsessing over book-to-screen casts for years.

00:13:09.920 And now, I get to talk to the people making the magic.

00:13:13.200 So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character, or cried at the last chapter,

00:13:17.740 or passed a book to a friend saying,

00:13:20.080 you have to read this, this podcast is for you.

00:13:24.160 Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app,

00:13:27.980 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:13:30.320 I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time,

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00:13:58.680 From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley,

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00:14:24.600 Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:14:30.180 Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st,

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00:14:38.900 Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebony, 0.69

00:14:45.880 the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free.

00:14:50.300 I'm Ebony, and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories

00:14:54.740 that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you.

00:14:59.580 On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all.

00:15:05.980 childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more,

00:15:13.720 and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. 0.88

00:15:17.200 My dad was shot and killed in his house.

00:15:19.500 Yes, he was a drug dealer.

00:15:20.720 Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner.

00:15:24.540 He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal.

00:15:26.220 He was shot in his house, unarmed.

00:15:30.360 Pretty Private isn't just a podcast.

00:15:32.180 It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines.

00:15:37.160 Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network.

00:15:42.440 Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

00:15:49.060 Sometimes it's hard to remember, but...

00:15:51.020 Going through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of their life.

00:15:57.180 That was my dad, reminding me and so many others who need to hear it, that our trauma is not our shame to carry,

00:16:03.180 and that we have big, bold, and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us.

00:16:07.820 I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea Tratate.

00:16:11.740 On my new podcast, The Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing

00:16:16.800 and reveal what it actually looks like, and sounds like, in real time.

00:16:20.820 Each week, I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us.

00:16:27.840 We're going to talk about the adultification of Black girls, mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. 0.96

00:16:34.120 The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space.

00:16:37.500 So, let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation, together.

00:16:42.020 Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:16:50.820 The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life.

00:16:54.800 I'm journalist Jeff Perlman, and this is Rick Jervis.

00:16:57.560 We were interns at the Nashville, Tennessee Inn.

00:17:00.060 But the most unforgettable part?

00:17:02.080 Our roommate, Reggie Payne, from Oakland, sports editor and aspiring rapper.

00:17:07.560 And his stage name? Sexy Sweat.

00:17:10.520 In 2020, I had a simple idea. Let's find Reggie.

00:17:14.540 We searched everywhere, but Reggie was gone.

00:17:17.240 In February 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic episode.

00:17:23.040 His mom called 911.

00:17:25.120 Police cuffed him face down.

00:17:27.040 He slipped into a coma and died.

00:17:29.880 I'm like, thanking you.

00:17:31.760 But then I see, my son's not moving.

00:17:34.520 No headlines.

00:17:35.780 No outrage.

00:17:37.160 Just silence.

00:17:38.980 So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own.

00:17:43.100 Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:17:49.500 How worried should I be about this fluoride movement now we're seeing? 0.99

00:17:56.820 I mean, Utah, Florida, there's big debates in Louisiana, other states to take fluoride out of the water.

00:18:02.680 Where did this even come from?

00:18:05.460 How important is it?

00:18:06.400 I read in the past one of the great success stories in the last half century in terms of just, you know, give me your over-under on fluoride.

00:18:14.240 Yeah, well, so this is what I appreciate about podcasts like this, because there's a nuance to this, and you can actually get into the nuance a bit.

00:18:22.260 Fluoride in really high doses can be problematic.

00:18:26.280 It can cause something known as skeletal fluorosis.

00:18:29.400 I'm talking about ingested fluoride.

00:18:31.260 So you're taking it into your body through, usually through water.

00:18:35.460 It can cause skeletal fluorosis, which can make your bones and your skeleton weak.

00:18:40.480 It can cause dental fluorosis.

00:18:42.140 I don't know if you've ever seen, Governor, people who have white streaks in their teeth.

00:18:45.420 Yeah.

00:18:45.840 Sometimes that is a dental fluorosis.

00:18:47.900 That's an indication of high fluoride levels.

00:18:50.080 And I think most recently and interestingly, there's been concerns about neurotoxicity.

00:18:56.200 There were studies done, all of them outside this country, where fluoride levels are much higher than the United States,

00:19:01.280 where they showed that moms, for example, during pregnancy, if they had high fluoride exposure, their kids later in life, it was associated with a lower IQ.

00:19:12.660 So that was obviously concerning.

00:19:15.560 These are hard studies to do, and there was some, you know, getting the methods right on these studies is challenging.

00:19:21.380 But I think there was enough of a concern about that for people to really start paying attention.

00:19:26.100 To give you a little bit of context, the levels that we're talking about are at least twice as high as the levels in the drinking water in the United States.

00:19:36.420 Right.

00:19:36.800 So quite a bit higher.

00:19:38.240 And in medicine, we always use this phrase, the dose makes the poison.

00:19:43.020 Things in any, just about anything in a high enough dose could potentially be problematic.

00:19:47.060 But it's, you know, it definitely gets people's attention.

00:19:51.540 What I would say, when you talk about the fact that it's touted as one of the greatest public health achievements of the last century, I saw that as well.

00:20:00.080 And I think that there's a kernel of truth to that.

00:20:03.000 But the nuance is that most of the data that exists on the benefits of fluoride exists before 1975.

00:20:08.960 1975 was a time frame when dental care became much more widely available and fluoridated toothpaste.

00:20:17.680 So prior to that, fluoridating the water probably had an incrementally a much bigger benefit than it does today.

00:20:24.700 So it doesn't provide as much benefit.

00:20:28.400 I think it's low risk because the levels don't get as high as they used to.

00:20:33.620 They don't get as high in the United States, I should say, as they do in other countries.

00:20:38.120 But it's also lower reward.

00:20:40.160 So fluoride today, lower risk, lower reward than it used to be.

00:20:44.360 Iceland does not fluoridate their water.

00:20:47.320 England does not fluoridate their water.

00:20:49.420 Israel does not fluoridate their water.

00:20:51.660 In Iceland, the kids all do twice a month fluoride rinses.

00:20:55.960 In England, interestingly, they fluoridate milk.

00:20:58.600 So it's not water.

00:20:59.840 So you're fluoridating milk.

00:21:01.340 It's like, we don't want to put it in the water supply, but kids who drink milk, they should still get their fluoride.

00:21:06.580 That was sort of their thinking.

00:21:08.320 Calgary and Canada, they stopped fluoridating their water back in 2011, I believe, but then brought it back because cavity rates went up.

00:21:18.360 And there was a new study that said in the United States, how much of an impact would it have to take fluoride out of the water?

00:21:24.800 And they said it could potentially be, you know, 25 million more cavities within the next five years, 50 million cavities within the next 10 years.

00:21:35.060 So, you know, I think we need better dental care overall.

00:21:38.960 And this is almost a policy discussion.

00:21:40.680 I think people, it's hard to get dental care.

00:21:42.900 It's hard to get dental coverage.

00:21:44.120 But I think if we had fluoride rinses, if kids got better dental care, then I think the incremental benefit of fluoride goes down even more.

00:21:54.420 Secretary Kennedy has been talking about fluoride for a long time, heavy metals in general, but fluoride in particular for a long time.

00:22:00.180 And, you know, as with these other things we're talking about, there's a nuance to it.

00:22:04.520 I don't think it's as big a public health issue now as it was 50 years ago, 60 years ago.

00:22:11.440 But, and we can even model how much of an impact it would have.

00:22:15.240 But I think it really speaks to the fact that we need better dental care overall.

00:22:19.960 Boy, I really appreciate the nuance of the response.

00:22:22.860 And just look, it goes to, I think, our frustration just generally as consumers and as people that, you know, just are so desperate just for the facts and a deeper understanding.

00:22:34.560 And you talked earlier about the politics, these binaries, and how everything is seen through a political lens.

00:22:42.080 It's just the larger issue of misinformation.

00:22:45.960 I mean, you know, obviously COVID seemed to expose a lot of that stress and anxiety.

00:22:50.540 And, you know, obviously our politics has been, I think, profoundly shaped sort of post-COVID framework.

00:22:57.660 And I think in some respects significantly so, obviously with RFK as HHS secretary in terms of health care policy today.

00:23:06.180 What's your, you know, as you reflect back on, you know, your own experience living through, sort of helping us all through the pandemic experience and COVID.

00:23:20.540 How do we get back to the kind of platform that we need in order to row in the same direction as a country to be prepared again, my gosh, for another novel virus moving forward where we're not at each other's throats.

00:23:33.780 We're not talking down to each other, past each other.

00:23:37.120 Help give us a sense of how we get back into the trust and truth space.

00:23:41.560 You know, I think it's tough for sure.

00:23:45.420 And as a medical reporter, you know, I think I have a really front row seat to how this is all sort of unfolded.

00:23:52.240 I'd say one thing just for historical reference is that if you go back and you look at the 1918 flu pandemic, that was a time when obviously we didn't have cell phones, social media, you know, rapid sort of spread of information.

00:24:04.200 But there was still a lot of distrust overall of basic public health recommendations.

00:24:11.520 There was a fair that was supposed to take place, I believe, in St. Louis and or maybe in Philadelphia.

00:24:17.920 Philadelphia and St. Louis were the two cities.

00:24:19.780 One city said, how can we possibly do a big fair like this in the middle of a pandemic?

00:24:23.680 And the other city said, we don't think it's a big deal.

00:24:26.860 We'll do the fair.

00:24:27.600 So they took it on and they had 12 times the rate of flu deaths as the city that chose not to do it.

00:24:33.120 Point being that there has been this skepticism that I think exists just in human nature forever, you know.

00:24:40.540 And I'll go so far as to say this, Governor.

00:24:44.220 Maybe some of that skepticism is necessary.

00:24:46.180 You know, I think that, you know, if we look at human beings like organisms, some people just have their antennas raised really, really high.

00:24:58.600 And I think when your antenna is raised really, really high, two things happen.

00:25:03.260 You see things that aren't there.

00:25:05.220 You just see things and the blurry off in the distance and that there's an attack coming and it's not coming.

00:25:10.340 But on the other hand, sometimes you see things before everyone else does as well.

00:25:13.760 And so I think there are people whose antennas are raised really high who are just concerned citizens.

00:25:20.340 I think there are, you know, shed starters who sort of fall into that category as well, but not all of them.

00:25:25.660 It's a heterogeneous group of people who are who are going to be resistant to basic public health measures.

00:25:32.100 It's a much more diverse group of people than I think I realize.

00:25:35.560 That's one thing.

00:25:36.200 I think with regard to misinformation and even disinformation, purposeful misinformation, I think my largest concern right now is that we're getting to the point, and I hope it changes, and I'm an optimist.

00:25:54.360 I think it will change.

00:25:55.280 But I think right now we're at a point where nobody believes anything.

00:25:58.580 I was talking to my youngest daughter about a year, year and a half ago, and I was very close to Senator John McCain, and she showed me some meme on TikTok or Instagram or something about John McCain.

00:26:13.740 She knew that we were close, and especially after he had his brain tumor and things.

00:26:18.320 And this was a funny meme, but it somehow suggested that he was alive and that his whole death was a hoax, right?

00:26:25.880 Crazy, crazy stuff.

00:26:27.400 And I said, hey, Soleil, okay, funny, right?

00:26:30.480 But you know that's not true, right?

00:26:33.080 And she said, yeah, it's here on Instagram, whatever.

00:26:35.280 And I said, yeah, but you know it's not true.

00:26:38.560 And she said to me, Governor, she said, I don't think any of this stuff is true, Dad.

00:26:43.080 And it really got me thinking, like, what happens to a generation of people that grow up without a locus of trust?

00:26:50.440 I mean, forget who they trust.

00:26:51.960 You know, they should trust you.

00:26:53.140 They should trust me.

00:26:53.660 They should trust the experts, I think.

00:26:54.920 I really do believe that.

00:26:57.680 But maybe they don't trust anybody.

00:26:59.680 And I think unless you can touch somebody, unless you know somebody personally, you don't really trust them anymore, which I think is really problematic.

00:27:11.200 And I think that's where we're headed.

00:27:12.280 It starts to hyper-localize suspicion of everybody.

00:27:16.080 And I think that's where we're headed.

00:27:16.920 So I think for me, you know, as a reporter, instead of constantly combating misinformation, which is like playing whack-a-mole all day long, just continuing to try and put out good information and explain things in a way that is accessible to people and leans into the nuance and the uncertainty of things.

00:28:08.300 A virus is a national security threat.

00:28:10.320 But we saw what it did to our country.

00:28:12.480 If we're able to apply the precautionary principle at a policy level, so things just go into effect, as opposed to Seattle's doing this and New York is doing this and Alabama's doing this and Florida's saying we're not going to do any of that.

00:28:23.640 And it was just a mess.

00:28:53.620 If we're in denial about that, then we're not going to build that level of trust moving forward for those that feel very, very differently.

00:28:59.880 No question.

00:29:02.240 And I think, you know, one thing that I think was a real learning point, I think, you know, as doctors, if we're, you know, recommending – I was in the operating room all day yesterday, you know, taking out brain tumors and doing things like that.

00:29:14.300 We know that it leaves a toll on people to do that, to recommend chemotherapy.

00:29:18.900 We know the impact of that on their lives.

00:29:21.940 We think the benefit is that it could cure their cancer, but we know it's going to be – it's going to be tough sledding for them for a while.

00:29:27.940 How do you convey that at a societal level, you know, closing schools, the impact of that?

00:29:33.300 You know, that was tough on my kids, you know.

00:29:35.000 So to really, I think, be very mindful of the impact – I'm not saying the decisions are wrong, but being really mindful of the impact of those decisions on people, it's tough.

00:29:48.500 You know, as doctors, I think we're a little bit more trained toward it because we have to, like, look at risk-reward for everything.

00:29:55.380 But I think assessing risk and balancing that reward as a country is hard, and I think that gets back to where we started, this precautionary principle.

00:30:04.100 We don't know.

00:30:05.540 Let's be cautious.

00:30:06.660 Let's be careful.

00:30:07.580 Let's not accelerate around the blind curves here.

00:30:10.960 Let's hit the brakes a little bit, you know.

00:30:13.120 And I think that that's – still, to me, that still makes sense.

00:30:18.500 Just like great shoes, great books take you places.

00:30:23.320 Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

00:30:28.480 I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of, like, butterflies.

00:30:33.060 I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts.

00:30:39.860 Every week, I sit down with your favorite book lovers – authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more – to explore the stories that shape us.

00:30:47.420 On the page and off.

00:30:49.380 I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep-diving book talk theories, and obsessing over book-to-screen casts for years.

00:30:56.600 And now, I get to talk to the people making the magic.

00:30:59.920 So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character, or cried at the last chapter, or passed a book to a friend saying,

00:31:06.460 you have to read this, this podcast is for you.

00:31:10.880 Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:31:17.040 I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

00:31:27.660 Sometimes the answer is yes.

00:31:29.780 But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

00:31:35.860 Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

00:31:39.680 But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

00:31:42.360 Cops believed everything that taser told them.

00:31:45.400 From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley,

00:31:48.280 comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company

00:31:51.700 dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

00:31:55.880 This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated.

00:32:00.940 I get right back there, and it's bad.

00:32:04.340 It's really, really, really bad.

00:32:08.180 Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated,

00:32:12.420 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:32:16.900 Binge Episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and Episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

00:32:22.420 Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

00:32:30.020 Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, 0.88

00:32:32.600 the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free.

00:32:36.660 I'm Ebene, and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories

00:32:41.440 that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you.

00:32:46.660 On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all.

00:32:53.140 Childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more,

00:33:00.420 and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. 0.88

00:33:02.980 My dad was shot and killed in his house.

00:33:06.220 Yes, he was a drug dealer.

00:33:07.440 Yes, he was a confidential informant.

00:33:09.060 But he wasn't shot on a street corner.

00:33:11.260 He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal.

00:33:13.260 He was shot in his house, unarmed.

00:33:17.040 Pretty Private isn't just a podcast.

00:33:19.480 It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines.

00:33:23.880 Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network.

00:33:28.620 Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

00:33:35.900 The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life.

00:33:39.720 I'm journalist Jeff Perlman, and this is Rick Jervis.

00:33:42.460 We were interns at the Nashville, Tennessee Inn.

00:33:44.960 But the most unforgettable part?

00:33:47.000 Our roommate, Reggie Payne.

00:33:48.680 From Oakland.

00:33:49.760 Sports editor and aspiring rapper.

00:33:52.420 And his stage name?

00:33:54.040 Sexy Sweat.

00:33:55.380 In 2020, I had a simple idea.

00:33:57.340 Let's find Reggie.

00:33:59.620 We searched everywhere.

00:34:00.940 But Reggie was gone.

00:34:04.240 In February 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic episode.

00:34:07.940 His mom called 911.

00:34:10.040 Police cuffed him face down.

00:34:11.960 He slipped into a coma and died.

00:34:14.780 I'm like, thanking you.

00:34:16.680 But then I say, my son's not moving.

00:34:19.400 No headlines.

00:34:20.680 No outrage.

00:34:22.060 Just silence.

00:34:23.320 So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own.

00:34:28.520 Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:34:34.420 Sometimes it's hard to remember, but...

00:34:37.760 Going through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of their life.

00:34:44.160 That was my dad, reminding me and so many others who need to hear it, that our trauma is not our shame to carry, and that we have big, bold, and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us.

00:34:54.320 I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea Tratate.

00:34:58.700 On my new podcast, The Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like, and sounds like, in real time.

00:35:07.880 Each week, I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us.

00:35:14.640 We're going to talk about the adultification of Black girls, mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. 0.96

00:35:20.160 The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space.

00:35:24.360 So, let's lock in.

00:35:25.900 We're moving towards liberation, together.

00:35:28.860 Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:35:40.300 Final question.

00:35:41.920 I'm curious, you know, speaking of sense, speaking of risk, speaking of trust,

00:35:48.520 where are we to make sense of AI and medicine?

00:35:53.480 We're seeing just runaway costs in healthcare.

00:35:55.840 It seems like every other industry has found efficiencies.

00:35:59.160 Every other industry, costs seem to go down.

00:36:01.860 It seems like more technology is introduced to the healthcare sector.

00:36:05.300 Our costs seem to go up and up and up.

00:36:08.420 Is AI overhyped in terms of medical expenses?

00:36:12.300 Is it overhyped in terms of research and discovery?

00:36:14.840 Is it underhyped as it relates to imaging benefits and just sort of super capacity to address chronic disease and solve for some of life's great evils and cancers?

00:36:26.340 I think it's going to be magnificent, ultimately, what AI can do for healthcare.

00:36:32.580 It's going to need guardrails, but I think even those are, you know, very trainable.

00:36:40.300 I mean, there's great companies, one of them out of California called Open Evidence, where you're already starting to see.

00:36:46.700 Like for me, I'll give you an example.

00:36:48.460 Guy comes into the office with back pain and leg pain and has got a herniated disc in their lumbar spine, the lower back.

00:36:55.680 Do they get an operation?

00:36:56.860 Do they not get an operation?

00:36:57.980 I could ask 10 different spine surgeons and maybe get 11 different answers.

00:37:04.060 AI could look at 9 billion pieces of data within a fraction of seconds and said, here are 50,000 other people who are just like the person you're describing, and here are their various outcomes based on evaluating their medical records and doing this all in a de-identified way.

00:37:19.080 My residents are already walking around talking to their phones as they're walking into a patient room to figure out the best approach to, you know, whatever ails their patient, you know.

00:37:30.480 So it's already changing.

00:37:32.600 I think I sat on the subcommittee for AI for the National Academy of Medicine, and I think one of the things that really struck me as we were creating these guardrails was this idea that we still have to think of AI from a trust but verify sort of model.

00:37:49.320 It's wildly effective at finding breast cancers, for example, on mammograms, but sometimes it errs wildly as well, and, you know, these hallucinations, as people call them.

00:38:02.120 I think they're already starting to get better about that.

00:38:05.300 I think it's going to, you know, we've been talking about big data, you know, for decades now.

00:38:10.580 AI is actually going to be able to make sense of that big data and I think make it valuable for patients.

00:38:16.200 I'll tell you a quick anecdote, you know, if you've been to the hospital lately or a clinic and you got a letter from, you know, sort of summarizing your care, it probably was generated by an AI platform.

00:38:27.760 That's interesting.

00:38:28.820 And most of, and when they, when they blinded these letters and they compared them to actual letters written by doctors or nurses and then gave them to random people, what they found was the AI letters were often referred to as more human, the human letters, which I thought was.

00:38:44.620 Is that just, is that the state of doctors?

00:38:46.640 Is that the quality of, you know.

00:38:48.780 I think if you said to me, hey, you know, my daughter's going to get married, you know, in July, you know, and I'm really excited about that, but you're here for your herniated disc.

00:38:57.640 I may have deprioritized that information, whereas an AI platform may have listened to that and said, hey, governor, I hope the wedding went well with your daughter.

00:39:05.160 And, you know, just these human touches, you had these moments where humans were looking at these AI letters and they were pausing at the moment that they read these human touches.

00:39:15.360 And it was almost like humans learning from machines how to be more human, I think.

00:39:20.640 Wow.

00:39:20.780 So I'm bullish on AI, I think.

00:39:24.780 And, you know, I think one thing about new technologies is that there's always a disparity in terms of haves and have nots when they first come out.

00:39:34.700 Before mammography, black women and white women had similar rates of breast cancer. 1.00

00:39:39.520 After mammography, breast cancer rates went down overall, but much more so for white women than black women.

00:39:44.820 We see those disparities with AI already.

00:39:47.460 So we have to address disparities, make sure this is very available and accessible to people.

00:39:52.360 But I think it's going to it's going to change health care.

00:39:54.880 We're going to come up with new treatments and the right clinical decision making much more quickly as a result of AI.

00:40:01.160 In 30 years, you're still doing brain surgeries or as a robot doing them?

00:40:05.540 No, I'm still I'm still doing them.

00:40:08.460 You'd be proud.

00:40:08.880 But, you know, I I say this as a as a brain surgeon who always carries around brain with me.

00:40:15.120 I got it right here.

00:40:16.380 Yeah.

00:40:16.620 I don't know that a robot is yet able to fully grapple with three and a half pounds of the most enigmatic tissue in the known universe.

00:40:25.900 I still think humans have to do that.

00:40:28.700 Eventually, we may we may get there.

00:40:30.760 But right now, I just think the you know, the dexterity and sort of the types of operations that we do.

00:40:36.080 But look, in cardiac surgery and prostate cancer surgery, you have Da Vinci, you have robots that have been doing that stuff for a while.

00:40:44.000 We'll get there.

00:40:44.760 I'll be retired, I think, by that point.

00:40:46.180 Hopefully.

00:40:46.520 I don't know if you keep if you keep to your wellness program, you're going to be fine.

00:40:50.560 You're going to be like you, Governor.

00:40:53.000 Hardly, hardly.

00:40:54.200 I'm going to watch.

00:40:54.940 OK, I already have my instructions on my meat consumption.

00:40:58.820 And yes, I'll acknowledge I'll acknowledge the wine.

00:41:01.340 Can you be in the wine business and not drink so much wine?

00:41:03.500 No, I mean, that's an issue.

00:41:04.620 I mean, it's an objective issue.

00:41:06.200 But I shouldn't be I can't be promoting.

00:41:07.860 Well, maybe I should be promoting my businesses.

00:41:10.180 Apparently, that's not an issue anymore.

00:41:12.660 Hey, can I ask you what's going on with you real quick?

00:41:15.240 Like what's what's what's up after, you know, Sacramento?

00:41:18.540 Well, it's sure as hell ain't going to be medical school.

00:41:20.860 I have no capacity there.

00:41:22.440 But it's it's to be determined.

00:41:25.320 All of it to be determined.

00:41:27.840 The time of profound uncertainty.

00:41:29.340 And I'm just trying to, you know, I'm trying not only to not get fined today, but not get arrested tomorrow, the next few months.

00:41:37.680 It's crazy what's going on in this country.

00:41:39.800 But I will say, though, on a serious note, just, you know, it's also remarkable how just trying to just absorb what's happening with health care policy from the middle.

00:41:50.260 We didn't even get into Medicaid cuts.

00:41:52.200 We didn't even get to the broader issues associated with the quote unquote reorg at HHS and all the cuts to, you know, just people out there promoting vaccines, HIV issues and treatments.

00:42:06.020 I mean, this is this a lot going on and it's hard to absorb just 100 plus days in.

00:42:11.800 I know.

00:42:12.900 And as a reporter, I mean, just every day there's something new and it changes.

00:42:16.480 It's so ephemeral, like you get all ready to report on it.

00:42:19.140 An hour later, it's it's it's different.

00:42:20.980 But, you know, keep fighting the good fight.

00:42:23.020 You know, I think certainly as reporters, we're information matters.

00:42:26.340 Good information matters.

00:42:27.280 Fewer people are consuming it.

00:42:29.180 You know, we're well aware of that.

00:42:30.900 Right.

00:42:31.220 Yeah.

00:42:31.400 It doesn't mean we stop trying, you know, keep out. 0.90

00:42:34.280 Well, I love what I mean to your point.

00:42:35.860 I mean, I made the point earlier, but your podcast is fabulous and it's great to see you, you know, out there doing especially with the just those sort of short clips where you're answering those tough questions.

00:42:46.140 But doing with the kind of nuance I thought and I mean this sincerely, your response on the fluoride is just something we don't hear.

00:42:52.920 And it's hard to have a segment that is that comprehensive because it just provides a different level of appreciation for perspective on this.

00:42:59.840 It's it's not just as simple as yes and no.

00:43:02.560 Well, it's it's not.

00:43:04.500 And, you know, I'm a dad, you know, I mean, first and foremost and a husband, but a dad, you know, who think like I do put myself in the position of those people who are the honest skeptics.

00:43:17.480 I'm an honest skeptic, you know, most most scientists are honest skeptics, I think.

00:43:21.640 And I think that I think that that helps.

00:43:24.660 You know, I would I do that for my kid?

00:43:26.420 Would I do that for my mom?

00:43:27.460 I think it makes it.

00:43:27.980 There you go.

00:43:28.980 No, it's in.

00:43:29.600 By the way, we had the exact I remember that conversation you mentioned with your wife.

00:43:32.540 Do we do all of the shots at once?

00:43:34.580 Yes.

00:43:34.780 Or do you face I quite literally had that conversation with four kids four different times.

00:43:40.660 We concluded all four times.

00:43:42.580 Let's just get it done.

00:43:43.780 But but but that it's a legitimate sensitivity.

00:43:47.200 I wouldn't call it, quote unquote, hesitancy in this sort of weaponized sense, but just human.

00:43:52.300 And you have to acknowledge that that perspective.

00:43:54.520 I don't mock those people at all.

00:43:57.000 I mean, there are people who mock them.

00:43:59.240 I that's not going to work.

00:44:01.280 I mean, maybe that's the number one thing about misinformation.

00:44:04.060 The mocking doesn't that doesn't work.

00:44:06.420 It just it just creates tribes and politicizes it even further.

00:44:10.580 So try not to do that.

00:44:12.500 God bless.

00:44:13.700 Couldn't agree more.

00:44:14.780 Hey, I really appreciate you taking the time.

00:44:17.120 This was fabulous.

00:44:18.060 Thanks for all you do.

00:44:18.880 And keep doing what you're doing.

00:44:20.700 You're you're you're you're a bright light.

00:44:23.820 And in this darkness.

00:44:26.460 And I appreciate you taking the time.

00:44:29.660 There's a lot coming from you, Governor.

00:44:30.920 Thank you.

00:44:37.400 Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

00:44:46.020 I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

00:44:50.020 I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcast, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off.

00:45:01.700 Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry and add way too many books to your TBR pile.

00:45:11.440 Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:45:18.780 Hey, guys, it's Janae, a.k.a. Cheekies from Cheekies and Chill Podcast.

00:45:23.640 And I'm bringing you an all new mini podcast series called Sincerely, Janae.

00:45:28.040 Sure, I'm a singer, author, businesswoman and podcaster.

00:45:31.580 But at the end of the day, I am human.

00:45:33.780 And that's why I'm sharing my ups and downs with you in real time and on the go.

00:45:38.360 Listen to Cheekies and Chill on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:46:08.360 Checking down what made Vine iconic.

00:46:11.160 Listen to Vine on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

00:46:17.360 Stay informed, empowered and ahead of the curve with a BIN News This Hour podcast.

00:46:23.540 Updated hourly to bring you the latest stories shaping the black community.

00:46:27.480 From breaking headlines to cultural milestones, the Black Information Network delivers the facts,

00:46:32.640 the voices and the perspectives that matter 24-7 because our stories deserve to be heard.

00:46:39.140 Listen to the BIN News This Hour podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:46:48.160 I always had to be so good no one could ignore me.

00:46:51.940 Carve my path with data and drive.

00:46:54.420 But some people only see who I am on paper.

00:46:56.680 The paper ceiling.

00:46:59.260 The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars.

00:47:04.600 Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree.

00:47:08.620 It's time for skills to speak for themselves.

00:47:11.540 Find resources for breaking through barriers at TaylorPaperSealing.org.

00:47:15.500 Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.

00:47:17.680 This is an iHeart Podcast.

This is Gavin Newsom - July 09, 2025

Extended Conversation： How To Live Forever With Dr. Sanjay Gupta

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