This is Gavin Newsom - Taking On Fox News (Live with Terry Moran!)

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:04.440 Just like great shoes, great books take you places.

00:00:08.240 Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

00:00:13.400 I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

00:00:17.920 I'm Danielle Robay and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club.

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00:00:57.220 Like, are you so hard on yourself?

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00:01:05.100 You're gonna make me cry.

00:01:06.400 Listen to You vs. You on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:12.120 This week on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler, Sophia Bush is here. 0.96

00:01:20.420 Tell me how that feels to be a hot, considered a hot lesbian. 1.00

00:01:23.840 Quite an honor. 0.93

00:01:24.920 You know what's funny?

00:01:25.840 When you're actually more fluid with your sexuality, the swing goes from, 0.97

00:01:30.180 nobody gives a shit who you're sleeping with, 0.92

00:01:32.000 to, you better identify exactly who you are so we can figure out what name to call you. 0.99

00:01:36.380 And it's like, has nobody been paying attention to, like, all the hot girls I've been kissing on camera?

00:01:41.340 Hi.

00:01:41.800 I've always been here.

00:01:43.440 Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:48.760 Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful?

00:01:57.460 The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network.

00:02:03.240 So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West

00:02:07.840 and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

00:02:14.220 Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:02:21.940 Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder.

00:02:28.240 I'm Katherine Townsend.

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00:03:00.860 This is Gavin Newsom.

00:03:03.160 I'm still learning the ropes here.

00:03:05.200 That's good.

00:03:06.480 And by the way, you're in Springfield right now?

00:03:09.360 I was in Springfield.

00:03:10.660 I just got back this morning.

00:03:11.780 I drove back.

00:03:13.320 And today, DHS announced 60 days, and they're gone for the Haitians. 1.00

00:03:17.720 So the families that I met with who are, you know, law-abiding, they're working, they fill out W-2s, they pay taxes, they got Social Security numbers.

00:03:28.100 The mayor wants them.

00:03:29.100 The governor wants them.

00:03:30.040 The city council wants them.

00:03:31.160 Business, church leaders.

00:03:32.720 Trump wants them out based on his slander of them.

00:03:35.120 And they have 60 days, and they're hiding in their homes, Governor.

00:03:38.820 They are hiding in their homes.

00:03:41.700 And the babies, 1,200 babies born since they've been here, now the Supreme Court throws their fate into doubt?

00:03:48.920 It's, you know, and good for you, and forgive me to selfishly state it so often, and it's so interesting, just from your prism now, this sort of new alignment with what you're doing, that you're going back to a story that everybody's moved on from.

00:04:08.160 That was weaponized in a rubric of debates and a political campaign, and now reminding everybody of the human side of all this and the impacts.

00:04:19.340 But it's what you just said about the mayor and the governor and the community.

00:04:23.600 This only reinforces just the absurdity of this moment.

00:04:27.140 Yeah.

00:04:27.240 And now you're fighting back in a really interesting way.

00:04:32.660 I read the suit.

00:04:33.360 I read the claims.

00:04:35.020 A bunch of questions.

00:04:36.460 But you're suing Fox News.

00:04:38.140 I assume everybody's watching at this point, and there'll be more coming.

00:04:41.220 Know that.

00:04:42.360 So why?

00:04:42.960 What's your beef?

00:04:44.280 Well, the beef is, you know, you can't maliciously slander someone.

00:04:47.620 You can't defame someone by altering facts, editing facts, knowingly doing that, without being held to some higher level of ethics and accountability.

00:04:58.380 I have no problem.

00:04:59.380 Look, we all know Fox is a propaganda network, but it's under the guise of being a news organization, being journalists.

00:05:06.200 And there's rules of engagement as it relates to that.

00:05:08.560 And, you know, Donald Trump and I had a phone call on June 6th, early morning, maybe June 7th.

00:05:17.020 Four days later, Donald Trump lied and said, well, we talked the day before.

00:05:22.020 I highlighted, in fact, we never talked the day before.

00:05:25.020 Fox decided to cover up for the president's lie, and they knowingly did that in a way that defamed.

00:05:33.080 And I just think we need to call that out now.

00:05:35.880 It's one thing to be on the receiving end.

00:05:37.400 And I've been on the receiving end of Fox for years and years and years.

00:05:40.160 It's like Fox.

00:05:40.960 But there's red lines.

00:05:42.820 And on this red line, they crossed it.

00:05:44.960 And I want a simple apology.

00:05:46.520 I'm not looking.

00:05:47.780 You know, you've got to file these in your own individual accord.

00:05:53.300 It's, you know, malice is a high bar.

00:05:56.140 But they're dead to right on this.

00:05:58.120 I mean, they had a chyron who said, Gavin lied about Trump.

00:06:02.140 Call.

00:06:02.720 I mean, so they've got to apologize if they don't.

00:06:05.240 But they need to be held to account.

00:06:08.240 And we want to seek damages.

00:06:10.700 Right.

00:06:10.780 You're asking for an apology and $787 million.

00:06:15.020 You heard that number before?

00:06:16.480 Where'd that number come from?

00:06:17.600 Yeah.

00:06:18.120 That's the Dominion lawsuit.

00:06:19.900 And this, they reacted to the Dominion lawsuit with a press release that they put out against

00:06:25.200 this lawsuit that almost was, you know, you almost could have cut and pasted it.

00:06:30.260 And they paid a big price there.

00:06:32.440 But what they did do is they didn't fundamentally change their practices.

00:06:36.680 And that's the point.

00:06:37.940 That's the point of this lawsuit.

00:06:39.700 This money doesn't come to me.

00:06:41.000 It's not about any of that.

00:06:42.740 This is charity goes someplace else.

00:06:44.660 But this is about changing these practices, these unethical practices.

00:06:50.400 And, you know, I don't do this lightly.

00:06:52.640 I got a bunch of calls there.

00:06:54.140 This is actually why this happened.

00:06:56.180 You know, I watched Jesse Waters.

00:06:58.580 I watched John Roberts.

00:06:59.820 I mean, that's just straight news, John.

00:07:01.600 And Jesse tries to assert himself in that respect.

00:07:04.040 And I got a bunch of calls saying, why did you lie about the Trump call from friends?

00:07:07.660 I said, what do you mean I lied about it?

00:07:09.640 Just making that up.

00:07:10.400 I said, well, that's not what I'm seeing on Fox.

00:07:12.440 And so I'm constantly battling that.

00:07:14.500 I'm like, this is doing damage.

00:07:16.340 It was not just on the 65 million people that watched Fox and Fox business, but hundreds

00:07:21.420 of millions on social.

00:07:22.840 And it was weaponized on the right.

00:07:24.660 And it started to bleed in.

00:07:26.700 And so that for me, that crossed the line.

00:07:30.460 And that's why I'm pushing back.

00:07:32.760 That is the way that the system works on that side.

00:07:35.380 Look, I was obviously in corporate legacy, mainstream media, whatever you want.

00:07:39.980 I had a great career.

00:07:40.760 Loved it.

00:07:41.220 I have nothing bad to say about my colleagues.

00:07:43.800 But it's like they're fighting or they're trying to tell the truth, blindfolded to the

00:07:50.160 reality of what's happening to the truth, is what I would say.

00:07:53.340 It was frustrating being in there because Trump has this power of bending reality for people.

00:08:00.900 And Fox's sister, his whole ecosphere assists him in doing that.

00:08:04.920 And kind of both sides or the kind of vocabulary that you can use is very difficult to serve

00:08:13.020 the people with still.

00:08:15.020 And it's, it's, it's, it's, look, it's, and that's not newsworthy in and of itself, what

00:08:22.680 you said.

00:08:23.060 It's spot on.

00:08:24.240 But it's really eroding trust.

00:08:28.200 And it's hurting our democracy.

00:08:30.020 And it's, it's code red.

00:08:32.380 And you'd think Fox, who's just the most blatant and, you know, I mean, just notoriously the

00:08:38.520 most blatant as it relates to being a propaganda network, would have learned that lesson with

00:08:44.980 that $787 million settlement with Dominion.

00:08:48.020 But they haven't, and they continue to cover up for the folly and the lies of this president.

00:08:56.040 And it's one thing for the president to lie.

00:08:58.060 It did it just a few moments ago, quite literally, about water in California again.

00:09:02.220 I mean, it's an obsession.

00:09:03.600 But you don't cover up for that.

00:09:05.660 You don't willfully and knowingly and maliciously cover up for those lies, edit information, and

00:09:12.460 alter what you present as fact and defame people.

00:09:17.520 You can't do that.

00:09:19.020 Is there something about the past few months in this second term?

00:09:24.100 And I don't want to post facto rationalize what I did.

00:09:27.880 I wasn't thinking it's too much.

00:09:29.720 It's the straw that breaks the camel's back.

00:09:31.220 I thought I was describing accurately a public figure in America.

00:09:35.380 By the way, a few words rung more true than those words.

00:09:41.540 Forgive me.

00:09:42.140 That's just my editorial opinion.

00:09:44.520 And actually, what was worse is it wasn't like a drunk tweet.

00:09:48.160 I actually looked at it, and I read it, and I thought, yeah, that's true.

00:09:51.360 It's sin.

00:09:52.000 There you go.

00:09:52.860 But my point is that there is this hammer blow, this daily bludgeoning of the body politic

00:10:00.820 with cruelty, right, and lies at every point.

00:10:05.160 It demoralizes people.

00:10:07.240 And I've seen you over the past couple of years, it seems.

00:10:11.260 One of the things I really respected and enjoyed you doing was crossing off going to Fox and

00:10:16.220 debating Hannity, you know, taking him on and having a good debate with DeSantis.

00:10:21.040 People appreciate that, but is there something about the past few months and the Democrats

00:10:27.880 crying out for someone to do something that is part of the background to you pulling what

00:10:34.340 is in some ways a stunt, right, this lawsuit?

00:10:37.420 Yeah.

00:10:37.900 Look, back to the lawsuit, but let me go back almost three years ago to today because we

00:10:43.100 just celebrated and not celebrated.

00:10:45.700 We lamented the anniversary of the Dobbs decision three years ago.

00:10:48.460 And I remember being a Planned Parenthood in Southern California, in L.A., saying, where

00:10:52.480 the hell is my party?

00:10:53.920 And it wasn't an indictment of individual leaders.

00:10:56.660 It wasn't even an indictment of the, you know, the DNC.

00:10:59.120 It was sort of, frankly, it was my own lack of accountability at this moment.

00:11:04.260 The other side was dominating the narrative on CRT and DEI, ESG.

00:11:10.140 They were sensory and historic facts, rewriting history, quite literally rewriting social studies

00:11:14.880 books in places like Florida.

00:11:16.340 And I was watching the weaponization and the propaganda coming from these networks, not

00:11:22.900 just Fox, One American News, Newsmax, and how they're able to shapeshift the conversation

00:11:28.780 and how my party, the Democratic Party, was consistently on the defense.

00:11:33.400 And that's where I woke up.

00:11:34.660 I said, you know what?

00:11:35.740 The world we're living in has happened on our watch.

00:11:38.840 Society becomes how we behave.

00:11:41.600 Take some responsibility, man.

00:11:43.180 And so I decided I needed to actually not just complain about something, I needed to

00:11:48.600 do something.

00:11:49.520 And that's when I started to reach out and went on Fox.

00:11:52.540 And I had Hannity.

00:11:53.440 I said, let's go.

00:11:54.660 Let's go into Ronald Reagan's old building, the old governor's mansion, where Reagan was.

00:12:00.760 Ask me anything you want.

00:12:01.840 Let's do an unedited hour, hour and a half interview.

00:12:04.880 And we did that.

00:12:05.680 And I started to go back on Fox.

00:12:07.780 And that's why I ended up.

00:12:09.020 And I appreciate your reference to the debate with Ron DeSantis.

00:12:11.460 And so I think that's healthy.

00:12:13.120 I thought it was important.

00:12:13.880 A lot of my members of my party were critical, saying, why do you even indulge those guys?

00:12:17.840 It's all fake news, et cetera.

00:12:19.280 But I thought it's important to meet people where they are.

00:12:21.740 So I say all that in the context of this lawsuit. 0.97

00:12:24.420 I have a high threshold for the bullshit on Fox, is the point. 0.98

00:12:29.160 All right? 0.99

00:12:29.660 I wouldn't do this unless I felt they really did cross the line.

00:12:34.500 And it's not about money for a nonprofit.

00:12:38.820 It's about accountability.

00:12:40.120 I really did hope and expect after that Dominion lawsuit, they would stop.

00:12:46.120 But they haven't.

00:12:47.580 And right now, if you're covering up for the cruelty, God bless you, that's the right word,

00:12:53.680 not just the chaos for the abject lies and mistruths of this administration, you can't

00:13:01.820 lay claim to being a news organization any longer.

00:13:04.960 That's what this lawsuit's about.

00:13:06.240 I think that is exactly the conundrum that my former colleagues and across the establishment,

00:13:14.900 legacy, corporate, mainstream media, whatever you want to call it, they are doing their best.

00:13:20.140 I love them.

00:13:20.980 I respect them.

00:13:21.620 They're doing great work.

00:13:22.620 But there's something that's changed in this moment.

00:13:25.380 It is a moment in history where it requires a different response, I think.

00:13:31.060 I'm discovering that in myself.

00:13:33.240 And I do think that I wonder if one of the things you're trying to do is give heart to

00:13:40.180 people who see this, who are bludgeoned and either on the sidelines.

00:13:44.880 I don't want to get involved.

00:13:47.640 They may have even voted for Trump, don't like it.

00:13:50.040 Or certainly the people who didn't vote for Trump feeling in despair.

00:13:54.140 He is all powerful, controlling the narrative, and now just bringing the hammer down in every

00:13:58.640 walk of life.

00:14:02.040 Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and

00:14:07.680 into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

00:14:10.620 I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of, like, butterflies.

00:14:15.520 I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from

00:14:19.960 Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts.

00:14:22.440 Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers,

00:14:27.240 and more to explore the stories that shape us, on the page and off.

00:14:31.820 I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving book talk theories, and obsessing

00:14:37.040 over book-to-screen casts for years.

00:14:38.840 And now, I get to talk to the people making the magic.

00:14:42.400 So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character, or cried at the last chapter, or

00:14:47.240 passed a book to a friend saying, you have to read this, this podcast is for you.

00:14:53.340 Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

00:14:58.480 you get your podcasts.

00:15:02.840 Don't miss a You vs. You podcast.

00:15:04.840 Join Lex Borrero every week as he sits down with some of the biggest names in entertainment

00:15:09.680 to talk about the real stuff, the struggles, the doubts, and the breakthroughs that made

00:15:14.920 them who they are.

00:15:16.800 They go deep, covering childhood trauma, family, overcoming loss, and the moments that shape

00:15:22.940 their journey.

00:15:24.180 These honest conversations are meant to take the cape off our heroes with the hope that

00:15:28.520 their humanity inspires you to become a better you, and therefore set you free to live the

00:15:33.600 life of your dreams.

00:15:35.100 Here's a sneak peek.

00:15:36.100 I'm trained to go compete.

00:15:38.100 I'm trained to be, like, go harder.

00:15:39.700 But sometimes that mentality stops you from stopping and smelling the flowers in your own

00:15:44.140 garden.

00:15:44.700 Is it wrong to want more?

00:15:46.300 We migrated.

00:15:47.200 Our family migrated here.

00:15:48.480 I'm like second generation.

00:15:49.960 Listen to You vs. You as part of My Cultura Podcast Network.

00:15:54.140 Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:15:58.640 This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler.

00:16:05.500 Sophia Bush is here. 0.98

00:16:07.100 Tell me how that feels to be a hot, considered a hot lesbian. 1.00

00:16:10.520 Quite an honor.

00:16:11.620 You know what's funny is you do this weird math, like if you're a woman dating men, nobody

00:16:17.220 wants to talk to you about your sexuality. 1.00

00:16:19.060 They just want to either say, like, you're a prude or a slut, you know? 1.00

00:16:22.580 If you date too much, they criticize you. 1.00

00:16:24.740 If you don't date, you must be frigid, whatever.

00:16:26.460 And then the thing that gets added when you're actually more fluid with your sexuality is the

00:16:32.840 swing goes to, you better identify exactly who you are so we can figure out what name

00:16:37.280 to call you.

00:16:37.940 And it's like, okay.

00:16:40.220 And, you know, I sort of looked around and was like, has nobody been paying attention

00:16:43.360 to like all the hot girls I've been kissing on camera?

00:16:46.260 You know, maybe not in front of you off camera, but hi, I've always been here.

00:16:50.920 Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

00:16:55.380 podcasts.

00:16:56.460 The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network, hosted

00:17:04.520 by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck.

00:17:10.000 This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else.

00:17:14.220 Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West.

00:17:18.680 I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian, Dr. Randall Williams,

00:17:24.740 and bestselling author and MeatEater founder, Stephen Rinella.

00:17:28.900 I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here.

00:17:32.740 And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for

00:17:37.200 caves.

00:17:37.540 So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come

00:17:44.040 to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

00:17:50.440 Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

00:17:55.640 you get your podcasts.

00:17:58.740 I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your

00:18:03.780 gun?

00:18:05.800 Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer

00:18:11.620 will always be no.

00:18:13.960 Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

00:18:17.800 But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

00:18:20.540 Cops believed everything that taser told them.

00:18:23.500 From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened

00:18:28.120 when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

00:18:33.980 This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated.

00:18:39.000 I get right back there and it's bad.

00:18:42.440 It's really, really, really bad.

00:18:46.260 Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app,

00:18:51.860 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:18:54.980 Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

00:19:00.500 Ad free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

00:19:03.740 I wish I could show you a video I just got right before we went on from a friend of mine down in San Diego

00:19:15.220 in this young woman, torn away from her car by masked men, screaming and yelling.

00:19:23.020 Turns out to be a housekeeper at a well-known hotel in Southern California, a member of Local 11,

00:19:28.160 and Unite here, just ripped off the streets by masked men.

00:19:33.040 This is a moral moment.

00:19:35.080 This is happening in America.

00:19:36.340 You have 5,000 federalized troops.

00:19:39.400 You have the U.S. military in the streets of Los Angeles in 2025.

00:19:46.200 Today.

00:19:47.800 I mean, this is, to your point, things have radically changed.

00:19:51.720 You can't operate with the old constructs.

00:19:54.160 People talk about, I heard, you know, there's been some punditry, you know,

00:19:58.920 are we moving towards authoritarianism?

00:20:00.940 And it depends which lens, which set of eyes you have.

00:20:04.160 How about to that young woman on the street?

00:20:06.140 We're already there.

00:20:08.560 For some of us that have more privilege, we're not there yet.

00:20:11.960 And so I want to speak for those folks, to your point.

00:20:15.040 Yeah, for things to change, you've got to change.

00:20:17.560 It's not what happens, it's how we respond to what happens.

00:20:21.240 And I need to be held to a higher level of accountability.

00:20:23.580 And so I appreciate the frame of your question.

00:20:26.040 Yeah, I've changed.

00:20:27.460 I've changed.

00:20:28.040 You know, I changed when those National Guard were federalized.

00:20:31.140 I changed when I started to see members of our community torn asunder,

00:20:36.280 terrorized by these raids and people in masks,

00:20:39.860 and things that I've never thought I'd see in this country.

00:20:42.580 To see people deported, disappeared.

00:20:45.040 I was with a 12-year-old boy, same age as my kids,

00:20:49.380 crying, who lost his mother and father.

00:20:51.760 They disappeared.

00:20:53.180 They went to the same job site they've been going to 20 years in Oxnard, California.

00:20:59.080 And he had no one.

00:21:00.640 He didn't even know how to get back in his own house.

00:21:03.360 That's Trump's America.

00:21:04.680 So when you say those words, Terry, about Stephen Miller, 0.97

00:21:08.060 you were goddamn right. 0.93

00:21:09.400 Excuse my language. 0.98

00:21:10.500 You were right.

00:21:11.720 And he is wrong.

00:21:13.120 And it's wrong for us to operate under the old rules.

00:21:16.640 Forgive me for being intense about this.

00:21:18.300 But a lot of people are counting us to do more and be better.

00:21:22.480 I respect that intensity.

00:21:24.120 That's where we have to find our courage, right?

00:21:26.380 We have to find it there.

00:21:27.640 And I appreciate what you're saying about that.

00:21:31.200 I will say that having just gotten back,

00:21:33.880 one of the things, if you don't mind a personal note,

00:21:36.580 the outpouring of people signing up for this

00:21:40.700 and actually very, very kind and genuine support

00:21:43.860 for something I didn't, you know, from one perspective,

00:21:47.240 really screwed up, right?

00:21:48.700 This is not the way I'd recommend leaving a job.

00:21:51.300 But as I said, I'm kind of exhilarated and excited

00:21:53.820 by the possibilities and by the work ahead,

00:21:55.980 the good work that you're talking about ahead.

00:21:58.640 But I do feel that it became, for a lot of people,

00:22:03.780 a galvanizing moment, right?

00:22:07.160 A sense that, okay, whatever you think of what he said,

00:22:10.040 including some of my neighbors.

00:22:11.100 I live in a kind of a purple neighborhood

00:22:12.800 in Frederick, Maryland,

00:22:14.040 out closer to Antietam and Gettysburg

00:22:16.260 than to Washington, D.C.

00:22:18.440 And a lot of my neighbors voted for Trump.

00:22:21.740 And one of them in particular, you know,

00:22:24.180 very strong for Trump, he told my wife,

00:22:26.380 he said, tell your husband, you know,

00:22:28.500 I really respect him.

00:22:29.460 I thought what he did was brave.

00:22:30.560 And, you know, look at his social feeds.

00:22:33.480 He loves that.

00:22:34.280 It was very encouraging for me.

00:22:36.360 I feel very encouraged.

00:22:37.620 But the point of it is, I think the point,

00:22:40.940 the cruelty is the point.

00:22:42.840 To dishearten people, make them amenable

00:22:45.680 to more and more authority.

00:22:48.720 And just one more note in Springfield,

00:22:52.020 one of the young Haitian men that I spoke with,

00:22:54.540 he had a brain tumor in Haiti.

00:22:56.140 They couldn't help him.

00:22:57.300 Came to the United States, started working,

00:23:00.340 got on Obamacare, got the brain tumor operated on,

00:23:05.400 but they had to remove his pituitary glands.

00:23:07.280 So he needs to regulate his hormonal system.

00:23:09.920 If they send him back, he'll die.

00:23:12.860 And he said, I don't go out of the house

00:23:14.500 because anyone can wear a mask.

00:23:16.340 Remember, he's from Haiti.

00:23:17.780 Anyone can wear a mask and put ice on them.

00:23:19.780 I don't know if they're kidnappers

00:23:21.060 or if they're the law.

00:23:22.500 So there are thousands of people hiding in their homes

00:23:26.160 from the federal government

00:23:27.860 who were, until a couple of weeks ago,

00:23:30.600 here lawfully, good employees.

00:23:32.860 You go ask the businesses down there,

00:23:34.220 the Dole plant, auto machining plants.

00:23:36.680 You ask the mayor and the city council.

00:23:38.420 These are good people, the vast majority of them.

00:23:41.040 And they're hiding from our government.

00:23:42.460 That's, to me, a disgrace.

00:23:44.360 It is a disgrace, but you've reinforced this point.

00:23:48.160 And I want to amplify the point I think you're making,

00:23:51.000 that the cruelty is the point,

00:23:52.700 but the point being that that demoralization

00:23:55.940 just completely neuters us. 1.00

00:23:59.520 And we become numb.

00:24:01.720 And we no longer are active.

00:24:03.980 We're inert.

00:24:05.160 And that is exactly what he wants.

00:24:06.780 He wants to crush us into submission.

00:24:09.360 He wants to overwhelm the shock and awe

00:24:13.620 is about overwhelming us.

00:24:17.000 And so we cannot maintain neutrality at this time.

00:24:19.820 It was Dante who said,

00:24:20.920 the hottest place in hell is reserved

00:24:22.940 in a time of moral crisis

00:24:24.160 for those that maintain their neutrality.

00:24:26.460 This is not a neutral moment.

00:24:28.480 And I think, look, this lawsuit,

00:24:30.040 I hope, represents just an expression of that.

00:24:33.300 I want both to know we're not just going to roll over

00:24:35.600 that we're going to have people's backs,

00:24:38.320 people that may not have a voice,

00:24:39.740 people that may not have the privilege

00:24:40.880 that you and I have

00:24:42.140 to even be able to go on Substack,

00:24:44.040 to be able to have this conversation,

00:24:45.520 to reach a few people that are kind enough

00:24:47.680 to take the time to listen,

00:24:49.240 to know that they matter.

00:24:51.040 And we care.

00:24:51.920 There are people out there that give a damn. 0.53

00:24:53.260 You gave a damn to go back to Springfield

00:24:56.160 and to check in with people

00:24:58.600 that were used purely as a political fodder,

00:25:04.740 that were used as subjects, not human beings,

00:25:06.820 and to humanize them.

00:25:09.340 That's important.

00:25:10.780 And it's more important now than ever.

00:25:12.260 So, look, I think it's in that same spirit

00:25:14.960 that we initiated this lawsuit

00:25:17.740 and same spirit to which we're pushing back

00:25:20.620 against these authoritarian tendencies in Trumpism.

00:25:25.320 Can I ask you, before we move on,

00:25:28.720 the New York mayoral primary,

00:25:32.680 with Mondani winning and Cuomo going down to defeat,

00:25:36.740 a lot of Democrats are seeing that

00:25:38.180 as a signal of a new direction.

00:25:41.160 A lot of other Democrats are saying,

00:25:42.840 now this is maybe New York City,

00:25:44.660 but it would not work in other parts of the country.

00:25:46.860 How do you read that politically?

00:25:48.140 I think my experience in this respect

00:25:52.280 is we tend to overstate in the short term

00:25:56.400 lessons learned or we extrapolate,

00:25:59.540 lessons that frankly just reinforce

00:26:01.220 our own preexisting biases

00:26:02.780 of what this means or what this doesn't mean.

00:26:06.760 But to the credit of Mondani,

00:26:11.840 this was a hell of a campaign.

00:26:13.620 I mean, you know, you could distinguish

00:26:17.160 the message from the messenger,

00:26:18.680 but his ability to galvanize and to organize,

00:26:22.380 to use the tools of technology, new media,

00:26:25.640 to create a, I thought a personality

00:26:31.600 that even if you disagreed,

00:26:33.260 you kind of had a little more trust in,

00:26:36.140 was rather extraordinary.

00:26:38.160 And so from that perspective,

00:26:39.800 in the power of emulation,

00:26:40.980 success leaves some clues.

00:26:42.520 Now, what this means ultimately

00:26:44.200 for the Democratic Party,

00:26:45.940 was this really a predation of Cuomo

00:26:48.360 who came out with a lot of baggage?

00:26:50.220 Was this more parochial politics

00:26:51.720 in the context of just one American city,

00:26:54.740 though the largest is to be determined?

00:26:57.700 But I think it's a,

00:26:58.420 one thing I think it is,

00:27:00.080 is a giant wake-up call

00:27:01.380 that democracy is still alive

00:27:03.380 and well bottom up. 0.97

00:27:04.800 And if you're looking at this for the prism,

00:27:07.160 I think particularly Speaker Johnson,

00:27:10.180 you're recognizing you got 18 months left.

00:27:14.680 And if you're looking at this as Susie Wiles,

00:27:16.840 the Chief of Staff of the President,

00:27:18.560 your administration ends in 18 months.

00:27:21.660 We're going to take back the House.

00:27:23.840 We're seeing young people reawaken here.

00:27:27.980 They haven't gotten the message about the cynicism,

00:27:30.920 yet they're still engaged.

00:27:32.800 And for me,

00:27:33.380 that was maybe the most compelling takeaway

00:27:36.660 from what occurred last week.

00:27:38.520 Well, that is a great positive hardening end

00:27:41.680 because people are looking for

00:27:43.240 something to look forward to,

00:27:44.860 the good hard work of saving the country, right?

00:27:48.740 Saving the country.

00:27:49.900 Look, you know,

00:27:50.740 one cannot overstate

00:27:54.500 that simple statement that you just made.

00:27:57.340 And the Supreme Court made it more challenging today.

00:27:59.820 Look, we just cannot live

00:28:01.340 in the divided states of America any longer.

00:28:04.920 You know, I'm sort of paraphrasing Bill Clinton.

00:28:07.360 You can't, you know,

00:28:08.060 divorce is not an option.

00:28:09.880 We're going to have to define the terms of the future

00:28:11.900 to live and advance together

00:28:13.140 across our differences.

00:28:14.980 And I think, you know,

00:28:17.300 one thing people need to see

00:28:18.800 is other people's courage.

00:28:20.880 And for those people that turned out and voted,

00:28:23.580 that's an act of citizenship.

00:28:26.560 And the Office of Citizen right now

00:28:28.700 is the most important office of all.

00:28:30.360 And I think for all the assaults on institutions,

00:28:35.300 that's the institution that will endure.

00:28:37.580 And that's what gives me hope and optimism.

00:28:40.040 All right.

00:28:41.040 Well, great.

00:28:41.620 Thanks.

00:28:41.980 Thanks very much.

00:28:42.960 This was fun.

00:28:44.220 This was fun, Terry.

00:28:45.060 Thanks for having me on

00:28:46.040 and congrats on everything.

00:28:47.200 Keep doing what you're doing.

00:28:48.460 Thank you.

00:28:49.120 Thank you.

00:28:49.680 Good luck.

00:28:50.260 Good luck in court.

00:28:51.840 Thank you.

00:28:52.420 This is an iHeart Podcast.

This is Gavin Newsom - June 27, 2025

Taking On Fox News (Live with Terry Moran!)

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