This Past Weekend with Theo Von - #584 - Retired Las Vegas Police Sgt.

00:00:00.000 We want to let you know that today's conversation may be a bit graphic for some or gruesome.

00:00:05.360 It's containing law enforcement and some of their involvement just with society.

00:00:11.760 So if you don't like that sort of thing, you may not want to listen.

00:00:16.420 Today's guest is a retired sergeant from the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department

00:00:20.660 and a former crisis negotiator. He was born and raised in Queens, New York,

00:00:25.680 before spending 20 years on The Force in Las Vegas, where he pretty much saw it all.

00:00:31.000 Today's guest is LVPD's finest, Christopher Curtis.

00:00:35.000 Okay, sitting here today, retired police officer.

00:00:57.240 Sergeant.

00:00:58.040 Sorry.

00:00:59.380 That's a thing with police, yeah.

00:01:01.140 That's faux pas, yeah.

00:01:01.900 A little bit, yeah.

00:01:02.900 Yes, sir.

00:01:03.740 All right.

00:01:04.020 Sir, yes, sir.

00:01:05.760 Retired police sergeant.

00:01:07.040 Yes.

00:01:07.400 From the Las Vegas.

00:01:09.480 Metropolitan Police Department.

00:01:10.740 Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.

00:01:12.120 You did 25 years of service.

00:01:14.020 Well, I did 21 plus and then I bought some of the time.

00:01:19.360 A guy actually bought my time out to go work for him afterwards.

00:01:23.140 In Nevada, you can do that.

00:01:25.000 So you can, so if you're a police officer and you have,

00:01:27.560 you still have so many years left on your lease or what is it called?

00:01:31.920 To collect your retirement.

00:01:32.700 Okay, right.

00:01:33.320 Okay, so you want to get to your pension.

00:01:34.720 Right.

00:01:34.920 So you can buy it yourself.

00:01:36.260 But what happened was I was one of the first people, because there was a guy in the private sector.

00:01:40.740 You ever heard of the company Zappos?

00:01:42.400 Zappos, the shoes?

00:01:43.260 Yeah, the shoes.

00:01:44.160 So the guy, Tony Hsieh, who passed away some time ago, he was a billionaire.

00:01:47.400 Yeah, he had one foot in the grave.

00:01:49.240 That's an old Zappos guy.

00:01:51.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:01:52.340 I won't tell you that anymore.

00:01:54.140 He was revitalizing downtown Las Vegas and he was investing 350 million into it.

00:02:00.080 And he heard about me doing some innovative things down there.

00:02:03.420 And through a friend, he asked to meet me at a bar.

00:02:07.920 And so we meet at this bar and I'm like, this Tony Hsieh?

00:02:12.700 And he says, he told me about the project.

00:02:15.400 He's like, would you like to come work for me?

00:02:17.120 I was like, I'm not old enough to retire and I don't have the time.

00:02:20.420 And he said, can you buy it?

00:02:22.880 How much does it cost?

00:02:24.620 And I said, I have to get back to it.

00:02:25.980 But I knew it was a significant six-figure number.

00:02:28.420 And I got back to him with a number and he wrote the check.

00:02:31.100 And so at like 21 years on April Fool's Day of 2013, I retire.

00:02:34.940 So he paid your time.

00:02:36.460 He bought it.

00:02:37.840 So if you want to collect a retirement, you have to do at least a certain amount of time.

00:02:42.160 You get vested in the state system.

00:02:44.220 Got it.

00:02:44.540 So to make it worthwhile, to make it a significant amount of money, you want to do at least 25 years.

00:02:49.280 I mean, 20 years, you could do it.

00:02:50.760 But at 25 years and 30 years, the money's pretty nice.

00:02:54.500 And so to get to 25, at the time he wanted me to retire,

00:02:58.160 he needed to buy it.

00:02:58.960 And it was six figures and he wrote the check.

00:03:00.680 Wow.

00:03:01.040 And so within like a couple of days, you were done?

00:03:03.440 No.

00:03:03.860 I kind of was strategic about it and I planned it out.

00:03:06.720 And I wanted to see exactly what his process was.

00:03:08.680 And he was a very, very smart guy and a very forward-thinking guy.

00:03:11.980 So we kind of planned behind the scenes how to work it out.

00:03:14.880 And so I had enough time to set everything up.

00:03:16.720 And then April Fool's Day, I retired.

00:03:19.860 Wow.

00:03:20.480 And he paid off.

00:03:21.480 How many years did he pay off?

00:03:22.720 So it turned out to be like maybe like three and a half, almost four years, basically four years.

00:03:27.860 Yeah.

00:03:28.120 And at that point, you started working for him?

00:03:29.760 At that point, I started working for him, yeah.

00:03:31.320 So I had my full police retirement and then I had a significant salary from him.

00:03:35.080 So that was nice.

00:03:35.980 Living in Vegas still at that time?

00:03:37.160 I was still living in Vegas.

00:03:38.000 I had to because I had to be kind of working in that project downtown.

00:03:41.900 Can I give you something?

00:03:42.820 Actually, I brought something for you.

00:03:44.080 Yeah, sure.

00:03:44.920 I think so.

00:03:45.540 You know, I'm a fan, man.

00:03:46.880 I really like what you do and I think you're awesome.

00:03:49.420 And I figured I could give you something, a Vegas souvenir.

00:03:52.100 So open that up.

00:03:54.320 Okay.

00:03:56.600 Scoot up a coaster.

00:03:59.600 Oh, this is a beverage coaster.

00:04:02.080 Police managers, supervisors, association, Las Vegas Metro.

00:04:05.060 Badge, huh?

00:04:05.720 Now open it up.

00:04:07.700 Okay.

00:04:08.280 And look at the back.

00:04:12.020 Ooh.

00:04:13.340 Gang boy.

00:04:15.280 Commemorative only.

00:04:16.060 Thank God.

00:04:16.840 Yeah, so you don't go out and start jacking people.

00:04:18.780 Yeah, dude.

00:04:19.740 Yeah, I wanted you to have a badge, man.

00:04:21.220 And so then you can just put it on this little thing.

00:04:24.140 Oh, thanks, bro.

00:04:24.840 And then you can just put it in one of your places, man.

00:04:26.440 You do a lot of really cool stuff, man.

00:04:28.180 When I came into town, man, and the people I talked to, you know,

00:04:31.320 a small group of people, everyone really thinks very, very highly of you, man.

00:04:34.520 I watch this stuff.

00:04:35.380 You're a good dude, man.

00:04:36.660 Well, thanks, Chris, man.

00:04:37.560 I appreciate you saying that, dude.

00:04:38.640 That's awesome.

00:04:39.400 Yeah, because we need to.

00:04:40.200 You got to put it back in the thing in order to hold it in there.

00:04:41.820 Oh, that's fair.

00:04:42.520 Yeah.

00:04:42.860 God.

00:04:43.960 That's shit.

00:04:44.460 Yeah, and I worked in zoning for a little bit.

00:04:46.020 So sorry.

00:04:47.540 That should have made sense.

00:04:49.620 Dude, that's awesome, man.

00:04:50.680 Thank you very much.

00:04:51.380 Yeah, we have a nice little collection of some neat stuff that people have given us.

00:04:54.800 Good.

00:04:55.120 Well, now you got a badge.

00:04:56.480 Yeah.

00:04:57.360 That's very, very thoughtful of you.

00:04:58.560 Thank you, man.

00:04:59.280 Yeah, and thank you for your service, too.

00:05:00.860 Right on.

00:05:01.760 Dude, I'll tell you a story.

00:05:02.840 So one time I'm at the University of Tennessee football game, and some guy,

00:05:07.400 and he was like a drunk guy, and he was like, you know,

00:05:10.860 and he just kept making sounds like that and just like,

00:05:13.980 and he could breathe, but he wasn't great at it, you know?

00:05:17.020 He put on some weight or whatever, and he was a sheriff or something, you know?

00:05:21.960 And I was like, I need to go downstairs and use the restroom.

00:05:24.220 He's like, oh, well, if anybody gives you any problems, just show them this.

00:05:26.180 He gave me a sheriff's badge, right?

00:05:28.320 In a little fanflet.

00:05:29.620 It comes in like a little wallet.

00:05:31.060 So I'm downstairs, dude, right?

00:05:32.900 Things start kind of like, people start getting weird down there,

00:05:35.360 like there's some stuff kind of popping off in a tunnel.

00:05:38.160 And so I pull this thing out, dude, and I show it up in the air, right?

00:05:40.800 And now there's other police officers come up,

00:05:44.140 and they're looking at each other, and they're looking at me, right?

00:05:47.360 How old were you?

00:05:48.500 Oh, this was probably eight months ago.

00:05:51.520 And then, yeah, and then the lady pushed me up against the wall

00:05:55.100 for having a fake identification, being a fake police officer.

00:05:59.460 But they didn't recognize you?

00:06:01.240 She did.

00:06:01.800 She didn't want any bullshit.

00:06:02.700 I guess she recognized I was not an officiant of the law.

00:06:06.840 You were just the old line with a badge.

00:06:08.080 Yeah, and she's like, this kind of shit is too much.

00:06:10.900 So anyway, just be careful where you use badgery, you know?

00:06:17.360 So what did you do for Tony Hissier?

00:06:20.500 Tony Hissier.

00:06:21.220 Tony Hissier.

00:06:22.260 So for Tony, he was revitalizing downtown,

00:06:25.300 and he wanted to create like an ambassador.

00:06:26.980 You know those ambassadors that kind of give out directions

00:06:29.000 or eyes for the police, and he wanted someone that knew the area.

00:06:32.140 So I hired like 60 people, and they just walked around the air

00:06:36.080 because it was a pretty high crime rate back then.

00:06:37.940 In fact, what's interesting is I had worked a double homicide on Fremont

00:06:43.400 like maybe about six months before he approached me.

00:06:48.160 It was pretty bad down there at one point for a long time.

00:06:51.040 When I first hired on in 92, it was like if you wanted a cop to learn

00:06:54.900 how to be a really good street cop, you would want to work downtown on Fremont.

00:06:58.720 So basically, to answer your question, it was to have these ambassador people

00:07:03.720 who wore like, you know, shirts, you know, and very welcoming to people

00:07:06.920 who were looking for directions because there was an infrastructure of people

00:07:09.820 that were working and living down there, and he was trying to build that

00:07:12.660 because he had residential businesses and all kinds of stuff.

00:07:15.980 And in not having the police, he wanted to have a civilian group of people

00:07:20.280 that could interact with people and make them feel safe.

00:07:22.720 Yeah, I guess it's like a business person and a connector like him.

00:07:25.940 You think of those types of things, and you start to see the value in them.

00:07:28.800 How did Tony Hsieh die?

00:07:31.460 So, you know, I'm not very comfortable speaking about specifically how he died.

00:07:35.760 I know there was an incident where there was a fire, and he was inside the fire,

00:07:40.960 and I believe it was related to something about being inside the building with the fire.

00:07:45.200 Because I wasn't with the company when that happened.

00:07:47.200 That was sometime after the company.

00:07:48.380 And, you know, it got to a point where after I retired and I had throughout the years of dealing

00:07:52.300 with so much death and all the craziness on the police department, I just tuned everything out.

00:07:56.920 I really didn't engage with people if it wasn't a positive experience.

00:08:00.120 And then it became a point where I was just like a solitary person.

00:08:03.440 So I wasn't really very intimately involved in the details to how he died,

00:08:07.680 but that's kind of like the gist of it.

00:08:09.300 Got it.

00:08:10.560 So we see how you finished the force.

00:08:12.680 Then how did it start?

00:08:13.960 Like, how did it first start that you decided to become, join the force in Las Vegas?

00:08:17.760 I was a Marine.

00:08:18.920 So when I was 17, I joined the Marine Corps.

00:08:22.040 And this was way, so this was 1987 that I went into the Marine Corps.

00:08:26.060 Okay.

00:08:27.120 Paris Island, 3rd Battalion, I Company, super hardcore.

00:08:30.680 And my dad was in law enforcement too.

00:08:32.420 And I cannot overstate the importance of having a strong male role model in your life.

00:08:38.080 My father, I genuflect to that man.

00:08:40.460 And he died in 2017.

00:08:42.720 And what I can say is that my dad, I wanted to do everything like my dad.

00:08:47.500 So my dad was in the military.

00:08:48.620 My dad was in the army, but I wanted to be a Marine.

00:08:50.940 And my dad was in law enforcement.

00:08:52.680 So while I was in the Marine Corps, you know, there was, I was on embassy duty.

00:08:57.760 I ended up going to embassy duty, which is like one of the best, most challenging duties in the Marine Corps.

00:09:01.820 If you go to the right countries and I was in Belgrade, it was actually when I was in Caracas, when I was in Caracas, there was a.

00:09:09.640 And that's Venezuela?

00:09:10.540 Caracas, Venezuela.

00:09:11.600 There was a economics officer who took a liking to me and he knew I wanted to go into law enforcement.

00:09:18.120 He said to me, he said, in the nineties, the economy in Vegas is going to explode.

00:09:22.780 I got on a plane and within like a couple of weeks flew and took the test.

00:09:27.640 And then I ended up in the academy in 92.

00:09:30.480 Wow.

00:09:31.680 Yeah, dude.

00:09:32.360 I bet the streets were hot in 92, were they?

00:09:34.740 It was crazy.

00:09:35.800 It was the wild, wild west.

00:09:36.980 Vegas was the wild, wild west.

00:09:38.640 If you, you know, everyone says that their department is the best.

00:09:41.320 I'm going to say that Las Vegas policing, especially in the nineties, I call it the golden era of policing, was just phenomenal.

00:09:48.480 I mean, you really got to understand the psyche of the human being because so many people come to Vegas to do whatever crazy thing they want to do.

00:09:55.320 And, and you got to interact with people on that level.

00:09:59.180 And it teaches you a lot about people.

00:10:01.420 Is it, is that a more fun place to be in law enforcement?

00:10:04.100 Do you feel like, like, I know that's a strange word probably to use with policing, but is that a more entertaining place?

00:10:09.680 It is.

00:10:10.260 It is because you, you deal with everything they deal with in LA, everything they deal with in New York.

00:10:16.900 And then Vegas is just this, you know, they say New York is a city that never sleeps.

00:10:20.340 It kind of does.

00:10:21.160 I'm a New Yorker.

00:10:21.800 It kind of does.

00:10:23.240 Vegas never sleeps.

00:10:24.580 Vegas can't sleep because it's coked up.

00:10:26.440 Yes, for sure.

00:10:27.420 Or meth.

00:10:28.180 Yeah.

00:10:28.500 Coke or meth.

00:10:29.120 Did meth, was meth a little bit popping?

00:10:30.660 It is because, you know, the area commands that you, the area command that you work would kind of define what drug you would deal with primarily.

00:10:37.860 Got it.

00:10:38.140 And so there was a time where I was working in the Northeast and they used to call them, it was called Frank area.

00:10:42.440 Now they used to, used to be David area.

00:10:44.100 They call them Frankites or Davidites because they'd be up just tweaking out, doing stuff on trailers and everything.

00:10:48.800 And, you know, there was a transition for me in my life because I was a straight edge guy and I looked down on drugs and I didn't have a lot of, I guess, empathy for people who were using drugs.

00:11:03.260 And now I've completely learned the opposite, you know?

00:11:07.500 Oh, yeah.

00:11:07.820 I bet you, because you're firsthand right in front of those people all the time.

00:11:10.640 I got to see, like, I would go to a single wide trailer at 3 a.m.

00:11:15.480 Ladies completely tweaked out of her mind and her kids are awake, all nasty, you know, crying.

00:11:20.780 The neighbors have called spaghetti sauce on the walls and I'd be pissed at the mother.

00:11:25.740 And what happened throughout my career is I ended up seeing that little girl that I was trying to protect becoming the parent of a kid in the same type of situation.

00:11:33.140 It's just cyclical, you know?

00:11:35.120 And then for the police to be judgmental, I found that to be incredibly disheartening for me.

00:11:42.120 And, in fact, if there's anything I think back in my life, it is if ever I treated another human being improperly or if I didn't spend time with my children when I could have spent time with my children, you know?

00:11:52.540 It makes me get emotional sometimes when I can think of specific situations.

00:11:57.540 I'll tell you a story, man.

00:11:58.560 There was one time where I took a little girl from her mom.

00:12:02.020 And this is in Vegas?

00:12:03.140 This is in Vegas.

00:12:03.700 Oh, yeah, all my police stuff is in Vegas.

00:12:05.220 There was one time that the mom was completely took out.

00:12:07.440 She was slamming speed.

00:12:08.620 And she was just up and just doing all kinds of stuff.

00:12:10.800 And the neighbors was at some point called.

00:12:12.940 Yeah, slamming speed is injecting it?

00:12:14.540 Yeah, it's injecting it.

00:12:15.680 Okay.

00:12:15.860 And so I go there and I remember I had to take the little girl from her mom.

00:12:21.520 And this girl was crying in such a way, I recorded this, that it was almost as if someone was literally, though I wasn't, pulling her heart out of her body.

00:12:35.440 Now, mind you, that's a kid who loves their mom no matter what.

00:12:41.320 You love your parent in spite of, right?

00:12:44.600 And I'll always remember in my mind that I have to learn to look at other people, not only the way that I'd want to be treated, but through the experiences that I've had.

00:12:54.760 That's how I look at people now.

00:12:56.340 You know, once you get older, you can start to get emotional about just the simplest of things.

00:13:01.440 Yeah, hell yeah, Jesus.

00:13:03.400 Most of this podcast is like that.

00:13:05.480 Yeah, it's funny, the little things that will trigger things that you didn't have or things you admire so much or even a word sometimes that a phrase somebody will use and it'll just like well you up with emotion.

00:13:17.020 Well, I do think it's interesting for people in police, fire departments, those types of jobs where, yes, I'm sure you develop a lot of empathy, but then also you are put under an unrealistic amount of stress.

00:13:32.180 A lot of officers are, I would assume, it seems like to me from the discussions I've had that a lot of people get put under stress that they're not really even as a human equipped to deal with.

00:13:40.860 So then at that point, it's probably tough for you to engage your best feelings and your best empathy at moments when you're under stress.

00:13:48.320 And then you also have to look out for your own survival.

00:13:50.300 I'm not debating you with it.

00:13:51.660 I'm just saying I'm sure it's quite a juxtaposition, you know.

00:13:54.500 It is.

00:13:54.860 When you first start out in Vegas, what are some things that you saw?

00:14:00.220 Anything that stands out, you know?

00:14:01.820 So from a crime perspective or from just the culture of policing perspective?

00:14:05.680 Let's start with the crime perspective.

00:14:07.480 So from the crime perspective, drugs are one of the most, I mean drugs and alcohol, okay?

00:14:15.140 Because drugs and alcohol kind of run hand in hand when it comes to the challenges that I would run into.

00:14:18.720 The drug scene in Vegas was either it was crack or it was speed.

00:14:25.240 And like I said before, depending on the area command that you went.

00:14:27.700 And I would go on Fremont because I worked Fremont primarily the first part of my career.

00:14:31.620 And I'd see these young girls hooked on crack prostituting on Fremont Street.

00:14:37.760 Then you would see guys who came into town to party in Vegas.

00:14:40.900 They, you know, gamble at the casinos downtown.

00:14:43.680 And then they want to come and pick up these girls.

00:14:45.880 They get trick rolled.

00:14:47.040 I mean, it's just this like incredible web of vice that occurred.

00:14:51.380 And it was like Gotham City.

00:14:52.860 And what's trick rolled?

00:14:53.580 Is that that thing where you, somebody sends you that video or whatever?

00:14:55.880 No.

00:14:56.100 So trick rolled is when a girl, a prostitute ends up getting you in a hotel room, either drugs you or steals your money and rolls you.

00:15:05.000 So the guy's a trick and they roll him for his money.

00:15:07.160 Okay.

00:15:07.420 Like a finesse kind of.

00:15:09.160 Sometimes it's finesse.

00:15:09.860 Sometimes it's with drugs.

00:15:11.640 I mean, there are a lot of different ways that that could potentially happen.

00:15:14.180 The act of a person commercially exchanging sex, robbing, or stealing from their sex buying client known as a trick.

00:15:19.180 Got it.

00:15:19.860 I got it.

00:15:21.120 Okay.

00:15:21.540 Yeah.

00:15:21.660 I thought it was something at a sushi joint, too.

00:15:23.240 I'm like, damn.

00:15:23.940 I don't know.

00:15:26.260 Yeah.

00:15:26.440 Just make sure you cook it first.

00:15:29.080 Like, would you bust into some like wild parties?

00:15:31.660 Like, would you bust in and people have been up for days?

00:15:34.460 Would you bust in and people were so bummed that you were ruining the party?

00:15:37.920 That ever happened?

00:15:38.440 You know, the thing was not so necessarily bummed.

00:15:41.800 It was that the people felt like it was in Vegas.

00:15:43.540 Like, come on, cop.

00:15:44.900 We should be able to do this.

00:15:45.940 I mean, like, why are you, you know, bothering us right now?

00:15:48.820 Like, not, they wouldn't even be mad.

00:15:50.660 It was almost like a joke or people who wouldn't want to try to pay you off or stuff like that.

00:15:55.040 But the funny thing is that when I was talking about the girls doing the trick rolls and stuff like and everything, these people were a lot of times close to my age.

00:16:01.880 So I would see these, you know, do you know this, the guy's name is, he was a famous poker player.

00:16:11.900 I can't remember his name.

00:16:13.440 I pulled him over one time and he was completely cracked out.

00:16:18.120 He's dead now.

00:16:19.140 So it's not me.

00:16:20.080 He was driving?

00:16:20.760 No, he was in the passenger seat.

00:16:22.200 Stu Unger?

00:16:22.700 Stu Unger.

00:16:23.420 Yeah, Stu Unger.

00:16:24.580 I pulled Stu Unger over.

00:16:25.800 He was in the passenger side of a car.

00:16:28.480 The driver was this dude who I knew was a dealer, completely cracked out of his mind.

00:16:34.160 And Stu tried to play me as I was standing at the passenger side of the car to try to get me to let him go, knowing that the car was full of all kinds of stuff.

00:16:43.080 Now, in Vegas, I can tell you that without telling you that on both hands, I've run into easily five to ten B-A-list people involved in very, very compromising situations.

00:17:02.760 And I know that happens in L.A., but the Vegas stuff is really superseding.

00:17:06.300 It's almost always some kind of sex, prostitute, drug type thing.

00:17:11.480 And, you know, I was like 21, 22 years old, and I was interacting with people who I had no idea that I would be interacting with them on that type of level.

00:17:22.320 Like, were there times you get called to hotel rooms?

00:17:24.860 Like, I'm just trying to think of, like, take me on, like, a specific call if you can.

00:17:28.700 So.

00:17:29.000 And, you know, I'm not saying name celebrities.

00:17:30.620 I don't need that.

00:17:31.080 But I'm just saying, like, yeah, take me on, like, a call where things are, like, you know, I'm just kind of curious as to the level of, like, just the things you would see.

00:17:39.380 Because it's Vegas.

00:17:40.120 Like, you know, it's the craziest place on earth.

00:17:41.820 So here's a story.

00:17:42.980 And it's a sad story.

00:17:44.320 Sorry, do I sound demanding about that?

00:17:45.600 No, not at all.

00:17:46.160 I'm good.

00:17:46.460 Okay, sorry.

00:17:46.700 I mean, that's kind of why I came, right?

00:17:48.480 My hearing is kind of sensitive to that, too.

00:17:50.260 Yeah, I don't know why.

00:17:50.960 I think I'm just tired, but.

00:17:52.380 So working downtown, I got a call once.

00:17:55.500 So you guys walk the beat down there?

00:17:57.040 What do you guys do?

00:17:57.480 No, that's one of the things.

00:17:58.580 You don't really walk as much in Vegas.

00:18:01.100 You know, everyone really drives a car.

00:18:02.700 And I could talk about that a little bit later because I think foot patrol is kind of important.

00:18:05.820 But I remember one time going to, there was this movie theater called The Flick Movie Theater.

00:18:11.580 It was right on Fremont Street.

00:18:13.840 And I remember going in and going to a hotel, getting, they would comp us our dinner.

00:18:18.740 So we'd get a comp and go eat dinner at one of the hotels.

00:18:21.120 I remember meeting the security guard.

00:18:22.720 He gave me a comp.

00:18:23.400 I went, ate dinner.

00:18:24.460 And then I got out.

00:18:25.660 You're talking about foot patrol.

00:18:26.460 So I got out to walk my food off about an hour or so later.

00:18:29.780 And I go in the Flick Motel.

00:18:31.860 And it was one of those kind of triple X kind of movie theater.

00:18:36.880 And the same security guard, they gave me the comp, was getting a blowjob from a young guy in one of the back seats in his uniform.

00:18:45.360 Wow.

00:18:45.800 Comp and dinner, huh?

00:18:48.820 So he's just sitting in the back getting a blowjob?

00:18:50.580 He was sitting in the back.

00:18:51.040 What do you do?

00:18:51.660 Do you go in there?

00:18:52.400 Are you wearing like a shades and like, are you hiding in the distance?

00:18:55.580 What are you doing?

00:18:56.200 No, no.

00:18:56.420 So I hated having to do that because I was a rookie at the time.

00:18:59.060 And like you walk in there and your boots are like sticky because, you know, all kind of disgusting.

00:19:04.160 It was just kind of gross.

00:19:04.880 You probably don't clean the place up.

00:19:05.860 There it is right there.

00:19:07.020 Oh, the flick.

00:19:07.560 You can still see the, yep, that flick.

00:19:09.360 Yep.

00:19:09.620 And were there live sex shows in there?

00:19:11.360 No, there weren't.

00:19:12.020 There was a movie theater, but they would want the rookies to walk through it so that stuff like that wouldn't happen.

00:19:15.960 Right.

00:19:16.520 But what was weird was that this guy felt he was comfortable enough to go in in his uniform and get a blowjob, you know, in a movie theater.

00:19:24.240 Yeah.

00:19:24.460 Like not even take his uniform off and go inside.

00:19:27.380 And that was like that Wild West mentality.

00:19:29.560 Like Vegas, on that same street, maybe a couple of weeks later, and this would happen frequently, I got a call of a person not answering their door at their hotel room.

00:19:38.920 Go up to the hotel room, security with the pass key.

00:19:41.980 Wow, it's scary.

00:19:42.840 Opens the door.

00:19:43.960 They open the door.

00:19:44.860 This dude was butt naked on the bed, completely bloated.

00:19:48.800 He was, we say 419, which is the code for a dead body, completely dead.

00:19:52.640 He, I think Rigger had, he might have started turning purple if I recall, but he was definitely dead.

00:19:57.420 And he had a picture of his family on the nightstand.

00:20:04.860 So fast forward to the end of what happened was this guy came to Vegas on a, like a conference or something like that.

00:20:10.620 He has a beautiful family, picks up a hooker, tries to have sex with her, heart pops and he dies.

00:20:17.580 She leaves him and she leaves with all of his stuff.

00:20:20.560 And then that's the legacy that he leaves for his family.

00:20:23.700 And it was almost like it was movie-like because on the nightstand, I, the guy carried a picture of his family and put it on the nightstand.

00:20:30.880 And then I can see his dead fat body with his little pee-pee sticking out and he's on the, and he's, and his kids with his wife's picture is right there.

00:20:39.040 And you think about that kind of stuff.

00:20:40.740 Like, see, when we talk about this police thing, I think that death is the recurring theme.

00:20:45.360 And it gets scary, like, because you see so much, like, I would look at a dead body and I'd be like, did that guy realize that that was the last time he was going to put on those underwear?

00:20:54.100 Right.

00:20:54.180 Was that the last time that he realized that he was going to do that?

00:20:56.920 Brush his teeth, put lotion on his limbs or whatever.

00:20:59.400 Yeah.

00:20:59.980 Yeah, dude.

00:21:00.860 That's, yeah, sometimes I think like, like, I have like a moment each day kind of where it's like, sometimes it is kind of putting on your socks.

00:21:09.240 You're like, what if this is the last day, you know, I think, cause that's one of the moments you're kind of suiting up for the day.

00:21:14.440 I'll have moments like that.

00:21:16.560 Yeah.

00:21:16.920 What is that kind of, I guess if you see a lot of death, how does that change your perspective or do you think it does for officers or even just you personally?

00:21:24.740 One time I was on a call where a guy hung himself and I was second to arrive and there was another cop in there and the guy was there.

00:21:31.720 He had cut him down, but left the ligature around his neck cause they didn't want to make sure that it was actually a suicide.

00:21:37.480 And the guy was just dead and the cop was there playing with the guys.

00:21:42.500 Cause a lot of people in Vegas have those video poker, little handheld video poker things.

00:21:46.180 I mean, cause this was a, people don't do it on their phone.

00:21:48.380 And the cop was just sitting there and he was like, just talking to me like, yeah.

00:21:51.360 And the guy was dead there.

00:21:52.360 And this is, I'm talking about stuff from the beginning of my career more so.

00:21:55.780 Cause I think that that really kind of formulated how my mind looked at death and then, you know, it's evolved some, but that's those things stand on my mind.

00:22:03.040 And I was like, how's this cop sitting here playing this video game?

00:22:08.120 And I was like, that's why he's playing the video game.

00:22:12.000 That's why he's playing the video game.

00:22:13.240 Cause he's got to sit up here with this guy.

00:22:14.960 He needs an escape.

00:22:15.860 Yeah.

00:22:16.040 What do you want to sit here and look and keep taking the guy's pulse or yeah, it would be hard.

00:22:19.520 It would be crazy if he's sitting there.

00:22:21.660 Yeah.

00:22:22.240 I mean, anything else besides trying to occupy his brain.

00:22:24.800 You know, that same time period in my career, it also taught me a lot about what we do with our loved ones at the last moment.

00:22:32.600 There was a recall on domestics.

00:22:34.280 You get a lot of recalls.

00:22:35.080 There was this lady.

00:22:36.120 Okay.

00:22:36.320 And on domestics, you mean by domestic violence.

00:22:38.440 Yes.

00:22:38.680 Domestic violence.

00:22:39.400 And there was a recall.

00:22:40.460 You said it's a recall.

00:22:41.580 A lot of times you end up having to go back to the same address multiple times.

00:22:44.480 So that's a recall.

00:22:45.080 So we got to recall back out to so-and-so.

00:22:46.860 And I remember it was really, really pretty kind of, I'm guessing, because I was in my early 20s, I'm going to guess this lady was about 30-something.

00:22:57.060 Really, really pretty, light-skinned black lady.

00:22:59.140 And she had some kids and she had recently been divorced.

00:23:03.420 And so she got the two kids.

00:23:05.340 She was a son and a daughter.

00:23:06.820 The daughter was about 14 and the son was about maybe nine.

00:23:11.340 I'm just guessing these ages.

00:23:12.600 And I remember these kids would, like, be so mean to their mom because the divorce caused them to pick sides because the mom ended up with the custody of the kids.

00:23:20.380 And the dad was a pretty violent guy.

00:23:22.900 And she would always call if he was coming through.

00:23:24.940 And I remember going, and the kids were just so mean to their mom.

00:23:29.580 After maybe a third recall, there was a call to the residents.

00:23:34.460 I was just about to get off on graveyard.

00:23:36.700 A gunfire.

00:23:37.660 And I showed up and the mom was laying on the sidewalk, shot in the face by the dad.

00:23:43.740 And the kids were screaming, my mom, what am I going to do without my mom?

00:23:49.340 I mean, just screaming.

00:23:50.960 You can feel that go through your whole body.

00:23:55.040 But you have to remain professional.

00:23:57.820 And in my mind, I'm saying, but you never said that to her when she was alive.

00:24:04.060 Why didn't you?

00:24:04.700 I didn't say that to them because these kids are going through trauma.

00:24:07.740 Why didn't you say that to them, to her, when she was alive?

00:24:11.420 So, you know, when I talk to people about policing, you know, it's nice to tell stories.

00:24:16.260 But is there a lesson that I can learn from this?

00:24:19.300 If someone watches, that's why I really like you, man, because people relate to you, dude.

00:24:23.540 And, like, there's some kid or someone watching this that's, like, maybe going through something.

00:24:28.260 And if they can take that away that, you know what, I'm going to say I love you.

00:24:32.020 Or I'm going to hold back yelling and being rude to you just because I'm having a bad day.

00:24:37.040 Then this, you know, to me is a win.

00:24:39.160 Yeah.

00:24:39.640 I think it's hard for children to learn that.

00:24:41.440 I think one of the things that I think, and I don't have any children.

00:24:45.240 I've been a child.

00:24:46.500 But I don't have any children.

00:24:48.040 But I think one of the things is nobody teaches you kind of how, you know, a lot of times to interact, you know, how to express your feelings.

00:24:55.460 Like, and I think a kid, you kind of feel like they just are going to know those things naturally, you know, how to talk to their.

00:25:02.520 I mean, I think parents probably talk about how to speak to your mother, how to speak to your father.

00:25:05.780 But I think sometimes there is this missing element sometimes of, like, how to feel, what a feeling is.

00:25:11.580 You know, like, kids may be confused.

00:25:14.000 They may think something's anxiety for a lot.

00:25:16.060 And it's really just a feeling.

00:25:17.260 You know, it's like I think some of that, I think there's a missing piece of education there.

00:25:22.420 And I'm not even blaming it on parents or anything.

00:25:24.440 I think it's just a part of our, maybe our culture that could be more expanded upon.

00:25:29.940 And maybe even the classes in school.

00:25:31.380 I know it sounds crazy.

00:25:32.580 No, it doesn't.

00:25:33.180 It sounds real.

00:25:33.880 Yeah, but if somebody would have taught me in school how to recognize if one of my friends might be struggling, right?

00:25:38.340 Or how to, like, you know, approach an issue if there's some, you know, some type of thing goes on.

00:25:43.320 Or if somebody's, you know, like how I'm feeling about shit, I think that could have been super helpful.

00:25:49.560 I agree 100%.

00:25:50.560 And as we get older, I think that we learn how to do it better.

00:25:53.120 But there's so many young people suffering.

00:25:55.760 And, you know, I hate to use the term bullying because it sounds kind of corny.

00:25:59.140 But, like, I don't like bullying in any way, shape, or form.

00:26:02.140 There's someone going through something so difficult.

00:26:04.760 We have no idea how, you know, that saying that says, be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a very hard battle.

00:26:11.540 You know, I don't go to Vegas as much.

00:26:13.860 You know, I go to Vegas a couple of times out of the year for just different things.

00:26:18.100 Because obviously I still have some roots there.

00:26:20.100 But even being a New Yorker, I spent so many years there.

00:26:23.580 The last time I came to, went to Vegas, or maybe it was the last time, my daughter picked me up, right?

00:26:28.220 My oldest daughter picked me up.

00:26:29.600 She's amazing.

00:26:30.540 All my kids are amazing.

00:26:31.540 But my oldest daughter picked me up.

00:26:32.800 And she says, we're coming back from the airport.

00:26:36.140 And we drive by this apartment community.

00:26:38.160 And I, without even thinking.

00:26:39.160 By an apartment community?

00:26:40.040 Yeah, by an apartment community.

00:26:41.360 And without even thinking, I was like, oh.

00:26:42.940 Because when you're a cop, you're like, okay, that happened there.

00:26:45.540 That happened there.

00:26:46.180 That's all you think about.

00:26:47.240 And I remember I said, I'm going to tell, I told her the story that there was this pizza delivery guy.

00:26:54.100 His girlfriend went to pick him up from work.

00:26:57.360 And she wrote on him on his last delivery.

00:27:01.280 And these guys come out from the bushes and rob and shoot and kill him.

00:27:08.120 I was the first to arrive.

00:27:10.400 I get there and this girl grabs my arm.

00:27:13.900 And she's saying, wake him up.

00:27:17.240 Wake him up.

00:27:18.820 And you know, this is, in the Bible, there's a story where this woman walks by.

00:27:22.300 And I'm not saying that I'm Jesus by any shape.

00:27:24.100 But where the woman touched Jesus and he said he felt, you know, he instantly turned and knew that he was touched.

00:27:29.880 There's power that goes through people when they're going through things.

00:27:33.840 And, like, that's why I feel like being a cop for that long, I don't know that the human psyche is meant to be able to deal with going through that.

00:27:41.520 It's like you go to work.

00:27:42.300 You're like, okay, give me a conflict.

00:27:43.740 Okay, I'm done with that one.

00:27:44.720 Give me another conflict.

00:27:45.380 All right.

00:27:46.440 I'm ready.

00:27:46.800 Give me another conflict.

00:27:47.800 I go to lunch.

00:27:48.480 Then I go home and got to deal with my own conflict.

00:27:50.920 You know what I'm saying?

00:27:51.860 And you have to go to lunch, dude.

00:27:53.220 What kind of lunch goes with a homicide or a burning?

00:27:58.180 You know, like, yeah, I'll have nuggets after a burning.

00:28:01.260 But then at the same time, you still have to eat, right?

00:28:03.900 But it's like, yeah, you see fucking Ronnie's having, you know, an eight pack of nuggets.

00:28:07.580 And I'm like, dude, calm down.

00:28:08.780 You fucking had four drownings this morning.

00:28:10.800 And you're out here just nuggeting up.

00:28:13.160 Yeah, I can't even imagine.

00:28:14.200 I would be so, it'd be crazy to see a pairing menu for crimes and then different, you know,

00:28:21.080 I think if there's a couple B&Es or whatever, you know, yeah, I'll have a fucking appetizer.

00:28:24.900 You feel me?

00:28:25.600 B&E, you mean breaking and entering?

00:28:26.840 Yeah.

00:28:27.060 I'm trying to work back with you, dude.

00:28:30.340 I got you.

00:28:30.820 I got you.

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00:29:53.620 We had a detective on one time and we talked a lot ad nauseum about the stress that a lot of officers feel.

00:30:05.160 He told this amazing story about he got called to a scene and the mother is in the yard saying,

00:30:12.520 I think my son is thinking of committing suicide.

00:30:14.340 They look in the doorway, the guy takes his own life with a shotgun, shoots himself in the head.

00:30:24.300 Now he has to go back.

00:30:25.520 Now he's standing there talking to the mother when it happens.

00:30:27.260 She's saying this.

00:30:28.080 Now this happened.

00:30:30.120 So he has this thing with the mother.

00:30:31.920 He still has to go inside and make sure everything's okay.

00:30:34.300 Like, is that exactly what happened?

00:30:35.940 Who knows if somebody's still in there with a weapon?

00:30:37.560 You just don't know.

00:30:38.380 He can't get the door open because the body's right there.

00:30:40.360 He finally is able to get it open, maneuver.

00:30:42.860 And part of the matter from the guy's head falls down the back of his shirt.

00:30:47.620 Disgusting.

00:30:48.320 So now he still has to deal with the other.

00:30:50.940 He has to fill out reports.

00:30:52.220 It's four hours before he even gets to think about.

00:30:54.820 And the whole time he has like, you know.

00:30:56.600 But, yeah, I just, you guys are like the drain of society.

00:31:01.840 You guys have to be this catch-all in this.

00:31:04.020 You have so many responsibilities.

00:31:06.940 It's tough.

00:31:07.660 It really is.

00:31:08.620 You know, there's a story that you just told me reminded me of.

00:31:12.920 And, again, it's a nexus, too, about how we treat humans.

00:31:16.100 What's a nexus mean?

00:31:17.060 Nexus is like a connection, too.

00:31:19.040 So when one thing connects to another thing.

00:31:21.380 Okay.

00:31:21.640 So the story that you told me reminded me of this story where I negotiated this guy.

00:31:28.940 So I get a call.

00:31:29.820 I was a sergeant, actually, at the time.

00:31:31.420 So I ended up negotiating because I was part of this crisis intervention team.

00:31:37.140 Okay.

00:31:37.520 So I go from Southeast Area Command all the way to downtown.

00:31:41.020 It was Valentine's Day, February 14th.

00:31:43.120 A lot of people end up tempting or committing, we'll say, 405.

00:31:48.380 Our term for that, unlivening themselves, is 405.

00:31:51.280 Okay.

00:31:51.420 They 405 on these holidays or at, you know, cemeteries sometimes.

00:31:59.500 But this guy's on Fremont Street, about 14th and Fremont, walking up and down.

00:32:05.560 And he's got a gun in his hand.

00:32:08.920 And so they pull me into the scene.

00:32:11.260 They put me in a car.

00:32:12.800 And I'm like, I mean, the guy was like about maybe about 12 or 13 feet that way.

00:32:17.340 When we first drove him, I'm like, dang on, bro.

00:32:18.940 You're going to drive me this close to the guy.

00:32:20.100 Drive me so close.

00:32:20.660 Yeah.

00:32:20.760 He was so close.

00:32:21.620 But they end up pulling behind this perimeter.

00:32:23.380 Because it was really kind of a haphazard thing because the patrol officers pulled up on him.

00:32:27.100 No one called.

00:32:28.100 I think the guy just, the patrol officer pulls up.

00:32:30.240 So the perimeter was set up kind of weird.

00:32:32.620 So we pull up.

00:32:34.560 And I, you know, I get to a safe distance behind.

00:32:36.900 And so I start on the PA talking to the guy.

00:32:40.180 So you're the negotiator.

00:32:40.980 Yeah.

00:32:41.160 So I'm talking to the guy.

00:32:42.440 You're the responsible one.

00:32:42.660 I'm the responsible one, right?

00:32:43.580 Okay.

00:32:43.980 And so I'm saying to him.

00:32:45.580 And then I look at the guy.

00:32:46.260 He looks kind of Latino.

00:32:47.180 So then I start saying, maybe I say it in Spanish.

00:32:49.520 So then in Spanish, I start giving, you know, saying to him, listen, you know, giving him the whole thing.

00:32:54.380 Right?

00:32:54.800 And he keeps starting to raise the fire.

00:32:57.700 And I keep going like this because all, you know, these guys, you know, officers with their rifles on him and officers.

00:33:03.920 And I'm like, this guy's going to get, and I can see him talking to him.

00:33:07.480 And then one time he lifts, they light him up.

00:33:11.400 So we all just run across the street.

00:33:13.360 And these weird things happen when you're in a very critical situation like that.

00:33:16.740 I remember one of the first things I noticed was that his pinky was shot off.

00:33:20.240 And when I first got up to him.

00:33:22.500 So we get the scene, calm down.

00:33:24.640 And then I see also in his boot, he had a Derringer, a little small .22 Derringer.

00:33:30.380 The gun that he had was not real.

00:33:33.760 It was a replica firearm, if I recall.

00:33:36.440 It was a pellet, something like that.

00:33:37.700 This is what's called suicide by cop.

00:33:39.460 I don't know if you're familiar with that term.

00:33:41.460 Now I am.

00:33:41.960 Now I totally understand it.

00:33:43.060 They trick you into shooting him.

00:33:44.260 Right.

00:33:44.500 Because they don't want to do it themselves.

00:33:46.260 What?

00:33:46.660 Yes.

00:33:47.280 Well, some people, because remember, for religious reasons, they feel like if they kill themselves, that's the last act that they committed.

00:33:52.880 Right.

00:33:53.360 Or some people just don't have, I guess, and I don't want to say courage.

00:33:57.380 It's ballsy to unalive yourself.

00:33:58.740 Yes, it is.

00:33:59.320 So 405 is a serious thing.

00:34:01.140 So those are some replica firearms.

00:34:04.480 It was legit.

00:34:05.180 I shot a guy with one of those, by the way.

00:34:08.820 That's a six hour, right?

00:34:10.820 I have a six hour.

00:34:11.800 Oh, yeah.

00:34:12.300 Yeah.

00:34:12.520 I don't, I don't, I kind of prefer a Glock.

00:34:15.420 Yeah.

00:34:15.840 It's just, it's a personal preference.

00:34:17.340 You know, I have a few different guns.

00:34:18.720 My favorite gun is my AR pistol, though.

00:34:20.800 You know, but I mean, I'm not a big gun person, but I strongly believe in protecting mine.

00:34:25.840 Yeah.

00:34:26.280 Oh, for sure.

00:34:27.340 That's why I live in a state where you can, where you can have a weapon.

00:34:31.160 Yes.

00:34:31.340 It's nice.

00:34:32.600 So in that instance, say you're, you're just, you're, you're talking to somebody.

00:34:35.620 It's a hostage negotiation situation, right?

00:34:37.300 Yes.

00:34:37.560 You know, let me just tell you one other part of that story.

00:34:39.240 Okay.

00:34:39.260 I'm going to tell you, forgive me.

00:34:40.260 Yeah, no one.

00:34:40.820 So what happened was we had to go to coroner inquest for that.

00:34:44.460 And we all go and we tell.

00:34:45.560 You had to go to what?

00:34:46.140 It's called, it's called a coroner's inquest where everyone gives testimony.

00:34:48.800 Okay.

00:34:49.280 And is that the same day?

00:34:50.720 No, no, no.

00:34:51.400 It's sometime after because homicide has to collect their, their, their information and everything.

00:34:54.720 And mind you, you know, this is some weeks later.

00:34:58.300 So this lady, after all the officers and everyone testify, this lady walks in, no one knows who she is.

00:35:04.380 And she's in like this kind of like plain Jane kind of outfit.

00:35:09.220 And she walks up to the front and it's almost like a movie scene because it's so quiet because I didn't know who she was.

00:35:14.660 And she gets up, they swear in or whatever.

00:35:17.300 And she says, I just want you to know that while you guys were on the police side, this person was my brother.

00:35:25.400 I'm not here to try to defend his behavior.

00:35:27.680 I just came.

00:35:29.020 So officially, you know, that someone loved him.

00:35:32.520 And then she got up and she left.

00:35:35.820 Wow.

00:35:36.180 And so to me, it's like, you never know what someone's going through in life when you go in, you know, with the whole road rage thing or whatever, you know, like maybe that person may let me cut them a little bit of slack.

00:35:47.080 You know, let me cut them a little bit.

00:35:48.760 And I mean, I'm raising my hand.

00:35:50.480 I'm very, very guilty.

00:35:52.420 Oh, for sure.

00:35:53.180 All of us are.

00:35:53.840 I don't think it doesn't sound like we're trying to like you're trying to exclude yourself.

00:35:56.780 It's just like, yeah, it's funny.

00:35:59.000 You get so active and so animated.

00:36:01.740 It's hard to sometimes have that control, you know?

00:36:05.440 Yeah.

00:36:05.900 And self-control is such a huge thing.

00:36:07.700 But God, that's a powerful moment.

00:36:09.260 I just wanted you to know that somebody loved this person.

00:36:12.360 Yes.

00:36:12.700 It was deep, man.

00:36:13.720 Yeah.

00:36:13.860 Because otherwise you just see this person.

00:36:15.680 A lot of times you don't even get a story.

00:36:17.180 You don't even know their story.

00:36:18.280 You just pull up somebody's deceased.

00:36:20.560 Somebody's killed someone.

00:36:21.740 Somebody's tried to take their own life.

00:36:23.700 Um, what's that moment when you're negotiating, right?

00:36:29.400 And you were, so, or do you have a weapon on the person or you don't have a weapon on

00:36:32.740 them?

00:36:32.840 You're kind of.

00:36:33.720 No.

00:36:33.940 So, so negotiation happens in a lot of different ways.

00:36:35.980 That's not, that's a typical way because it's from the negotiation team.

00:36:40.060 They set up a command center, the whole nine yards.

00:36:42.840 You're very far back.

00:36:43.980 I mean, sometimes you don't get on the phone for maybe an hour.

00:36:46.880 You could be two hours later.

00:36:48.640 That situation was a very critical situation where they needed someone who had training on

00:36:53.440 the scene.

00:36:53.920 So what's, what's kind of fun that I've been able to deal with those kinds and also the

00:36:58.300 kind where you're in the tactical operation center.

00:37:01.240 So, you know, another one of those kind of, um, dynamic situations was the guy who was

00:37:06.800 inside, had a gun, his neighbor called, and I was negotiating.

00:37:10.600 Um, and it's called a face to face, but it's really, we weren't really face to face because

00:37:14.400 we don't do face to face.

00:37:15.460 It's like, it's incredibly dangerous, but I was actually in patrol at the time and I was

00:37:20.840 the first to arrive and I ended up getting a rapport with this guy and I talked to him

00:37:23.880 and talked to him and we, I developed, you know, I want to say liking the guy, you know,

00:37:29.160 and understanding what he was going through.

00:37:30.400 He's going through and they, you know, it's usually like three things, you know, it's

00:37:32.940 usually a health issue, loneliness of the, you know, family loss and a financial issue

00:37:37.740 or a medical issue.

00:37:38.820 It's any one of various things.

00:37:40.340 And he was going through like maybe all of those things.

00:37:42.740 And I remember talking to him and I'm like, and he says, you know what, we got to a point

00:37:47.260 where he said, you know, I'm going to come out, but I want to come out and I want, I

00:37:49.780 want to talk to you.

00:37:50.800 Will you welcome me to the ambulance?

00:37:52.340 Cause I told him he was going to go to the ambulance and get transported.

00:37:54.920 And I did that.

00:37:55.840 And I stayed with him at the ambulance.

00:37:57.400 The ambulance people come out to me and they say, Hey officer, you might want to come see

00:38:01.860 this.

00:38:04.480 I go inside and inside of his drawer, stacks of kiddie porn, stacks of it.

00:38:10.340 Dang.

00:38:12.300 Now, mind you, I would talk this guy out of 405ing.

00:38:15.680 Right.

00:38:16.420 You're talking him from out of unaliving himself.

00:38:18.460 And then now you're like, look what I've done.

00:38:20.620 You know, it's really, is that the thing that's like, I kept this person alive.

00:38:23.300 It's like, you have this really kind of dual, like this.

00:38:26.760 I'm sure.

00:38:26.900 It's really like, if I had my choice, if I was able to walk up on somebody and over the

00:38:30.880 wild west, I would probably.

00:38:33.300 It's a very difficult, difficult situation to be in.

00:38:36.060 And you know, when you talk to a person for extended periods of time, it's called Stockholm.

00:38:40.360 Have you ever heard of Stockholm syndrome?

00:38:41.720 Stockholm syndrome.

00:38:42.480 Let's bring it up.

00:38:43.020 Let me read the definition of it because I always hear it and I even say it.

00:38:46.580 And I thought of it originally was people from Norway that got lost or whatever, I

00:38:50.260 think.

00:38:50.920 But let me think.

00:38:51.340 It was a banker.

00:38:52.220 Stockholm syndrome is what you say.

00:38:53.960 It's a bank robbery thing.

00:38:54.960 Oh, it's a bank robbery thing.

00:38:56.060 Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response where a hostage or victim develops positive

00:39:01.060 feelings or emotional attachment to their captor or abuser often as a coping mechanism

00:39:06.160 during prolonged captivity or abusive situations.

00:39:08.780 So it's kind of like marriage or whatever, but it's like very severe.

00:39:13.620 And that's just a joke.

00:39:14.680 But yeah, so psychological.

00:39:16.160 So that's interesting.

00:39:17.220 Speaking of like that kind of thing, you hear a lot about child trafficking.

00:39:21.020 You hear a lot about trafficking.

00:39:22.180 That is a buzzword right now for sure.

00:39:25.000 Did you see a ton of that kind of stuff or is some of that?

00:39:28.800 Because I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

00:39:30.420 I know that there's a lot of things like that, but is there a lot, is some of that just

00:39:34.480 heightened?

00:39:34.960 Because we hear about it every single day now.

00:39:37.120 Did you see a lot of that sort of thing or what do you see?

00:39:39.740 So, okay, define child from your definition of child.

00:39:44.360 That's a great question.

00:39:45.260 So I guess you would think of, right.

00:39:49.160 Did you see a lot of pedophilia or did you see, did you see like more like people just

00:39:54.120 trafficking, like prostitution type of that being run by pimps?

00:39:57.720 It's like, what did you see kind of like, what kind of, those things were separate,

00:40:01.640 kind of separate, right?

00:40:02.400 The pedophilia, you'd see like familial stuff like that, or you would see like that guy

00:40:07.200 that had the pictures inside the room.

00:40:08.780 It wasn't a person running, you know, females.

00:40:11.220 One time I was, I was actually with the cops TV show for this.

00:40:15.700 In this episode, they couldn't air because we drove, we drove into the desert because a

00:40:20.620 vagrant had found a campsite and there was a person who was living there and this guy,

00:40:26.600 and I'm going to assume it was a guy because we never caught him, but all of these pornographic

00:40:31.560 magazines, this is scary, man.

00:40:34.940 He cut little kids' faces out of other regular magazines and pasted the little kids' faces

00:40:40.820 on all these explicit magazines.

00:40:44.440 So this is the type of person you think would be like a serial, like kidnapper, rape, like

00:40:49.420 whatever.

00:40:50.280 Yeah.

00:40:50.420 And the cops didn't end up airing it, and I'm sure why, because it was incredibly graphic

00:40:55.000 and creatively weird and disgusting at the same time.

00:41:00.100 And we never, ever caught the guy.

00:41:03.400 Never caught him.

00:41:04.160 What was the campsite like?

00:41:05.860 It was just a disgusting campsite in the desert area, because Vegas has a lot of desert areas.

00:41:10.660 So if, especially if you go like to the north, northwest area, and vagrants kind of hang out

00:41:16.500 there, kind of a little near Nellis Air Force Base.

00:41:18.880 Like jugs of pee-pee, stuff like that, like just like stuff, like food, stuff sitting around.

00:41:23.220 It's like somebody just.

00:41:24.740 Exactly like that.

00:41:25.660 You know, old, you know, cans, beer, you know, beer bottles, soda bottles.

00:41:30.160 There was like a sleeping bag and stuff like that.

00:41:32.400 That's so bizarre.

00:41:33.680 Yeah.

00:41:34.360 So that's kind of like, as far as like a perverted type of thing you see, and it's kind of crazy.

00:41:38.720 Like, it's crazy what happens mentally to people that they, that that becomes something for

00:41:45.300 them, you know, like what sickness happens inside of them, you know?

00:41:48.620 And a lot of that you hear too is cyclical, I think.

00:41:53.720 Right?

00:41:54.340 Yeah, it is.

00:41:55.000 And you know, that's one of the things that I saw.

00:41:57.020 Yeah.

00:41:57.180 So that the one that was molested ends up molesting.

00:41:59.920 Yeah.

00:42:00.100 Is that true?

00:42:00.540 Let's look up what percentage of people that get molested end up becoming molesters.

00:42:04.940 And I don't know if that's the right terminology, but you always hear that.

00:42:08.020 So let me see if I can get a little bit of information with that right now.

00:42:11.800 Trevin, if you have something, I just wonder if that's fact or fiction.

00:42:15.480 I think it would probably be significant.

00:42:17.880 There is widespread belief in a cycle of child sexual abuse, but little empirical evidence

00:42:21.960 for this belief.

00:42:22.520 The aims were to identify perpetrators of such abuse who had been victims of pedophilia and

00:42:27.580 or incest in order to ascertain whether subjects who had been victims become perpetrators.

00:42:33.100 The results among 747 males, the risk of becoming a perpetrator was positively correlated with reported

00:42:39.220 sexual abuse victim experiences.

00:42:41.000 The overall rate of having been a victim was 35% for perpetrators and 11% for non-perpetrators.

00:42:46.980 Of the 96 females, 43% have been victims, but only one was a perpetrator.

00:42:52.000 A high percentage of male subjects abused in childhood by a female relative became perpetrators.

00:42:57.480 That's interesting.

00:42:58.940 Having been a victim was a strong predictor of becoming a perpetrator, as was an index of parental

00:43:04.340 loss in childhood.

00:43:05.480 Wow.

00:43:06.820 The data supports the notion of a victim-to-victim cycle in a minority of male perpetrators,

00:43:11.540 but not among the female victims studied.

00:43:14.640 That's interesting that some of them also, having become a victim of a strong index of parental

00:43:20.620 loss, that sometimes you do that if you lost a parent.

00:43:27.280 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:43:28.040 I don't even know why that would happen.

00:43:29.560 Huh.

00:43:30.560 Just kind of interesting because you always hear that, you know, that it happens a lot in

00:43:33.520 males, and then you see there, it happens a lot of males, but not as much in females.

00:43:37.800 What, in Vegas, yeah, you run across, you know, everybody's there to have the craziest

00:43:43.300 time.

00:43:43.900 Yes.

00:43:44.360 Right?

00:43:44.840 Everybody's there to have, you know, bonkers times, and I'm sure, and there's tons of,

00:43:48.780 like, prostitution, sex work, girls who are just partying for money.

00:43:55.080 I mean, there's everything there.

00:43:55.860 The prostitution in Vegas is just off the meter.

00:43:58.980 Is it?

00:43:59.300 A lot of people think that it's legal in Vegas.

00:44:01.200 It's not legal in Vegas.

00:44:02.240 It's legal a little bit north in Nye County.

00:44:04.080 You can go to the, there's a chicken ranch and there's other places that people can go.

00:44:08.260 But in Vegas, it's illegal.

00:44:09.920 It's a misdemeanor, but it's still illegal.

00:44:11.940 But inside the clubs, inside the casinos, I mean, there's tons of girls who are working.

00:44:18.400 And most of them, not most of them, a lot of them work for pimps.

00:44:21.820 Oh, they do?

00:44:22.480 A lot of them do.

00:44:23.280 What's that kind of connection?

00:44:24.420 Would you see that sometimes?

00:44:25.640 Like, does the pimp come and drop them off?

00:44:27.340 Does the pimp put them, does he, like, Uber pool them or whatever?

00:44:30.540 Like, how do they get the hook, the women down to the strip or whatever?

00:44:35.640 Is the pimp down there?

00:44:37.160 So, there's a thing.

00:44:38.540 Well, pimps, a lot of times, from a pimp perspective, they have a stable of women.

00:44:43.640 And they'll go from place to place to place.

00:44:45.900 Like, they'll go to Miami and bring their girls to Miami to work.

00:44:48.260 They'll bring their girls to, you know, New York or Vegas or whatever.

00:44:51.860 And these girls are called, I don't like the terminology, but they're called carpet holes or holes that actually work inside the casinos.

00:44:58.920 And they'll walk inside the casino on the carpet.

00:45:03.300 And they'll go make their money, come back, and give it to the pimp.

00:45:06.600 Then you have the lower level prostitutes, which are the ones that work the tracks.

00:45:10.120 And a track is a place where it's known for prostitution.

00:45:13.440 And Vegas and every other major city has tracks.

00:45:16.340 And lower level pimps will drop their girls off on the tracks.

00:45:19.860 And then they'll walk the track and make their money.

00:45:22.860 Then you have the ones that are the call girls who work out of the books.

00:45:26.060 And they're the most high level females that a person can interact with.

00:45:29.640 The track, the people who drops them off of the tracks, what kind of vehicles do pimps drive?

00:45:33.900 Do they still drive, like, these crazy, classy cars?

00:45:36.700 Do they drive a van?

00:45:37.540 So, you know, I'm still, I'm retired.

00:45:39.940 So now it may have changed.

00:45:41.060 But I can tell you that in the time when I was working, their cars stood out.

00:45:45.840 It wasn't like the 1970s pimp mobile type vehicles.

00:45:49.580 But you would see the nicer, you know, Escalades or whatever types of vehicles.

00:45:54.100 But you could, we would know.

00:45:55.280 Because, I mean, if you're on a Boulder Highway, which is a really, really kind of seedy area,

00:46:00.280 especially where the track is, by Five Points.

00:46:02.380 Boulder Highway, it's called?

00:46:03.420 It's called Boulder Highway Five Points, yeah.

00:46:04.840 Because five points of the city intersect at that location.

00:46:08.300 And that's a track.

00:46:08.980 It's still a track.

00:46:09.940 Okay, let's see that.

00:46:10.760 Boulder Highway Five Points.

00:46:11.920 Yeah, because sometimes if I go, I'll drive just to see what places are still popping.

00:46:15.880 Yeah, sure, brother.

00:46:16.740 And a lot of the pimps, are they, what types of guys?

00:46:21.160 Are they black men?

00:46:21.980 Are they Asian men?

00:46:22.800 Black men.

00:46:23.600 It is.

00:46:24.040 Black males are mostly pimps.

00:46:25.120 So that's more, it's a black culture.

00:46:26.860 But I am French to crack it, yes.

00:46:27.560 Right, it's a black culture thing, huh?

00:46:29.960 It is.

00:46:30.740 You didn't know that?

00:46:32.140 I've seen, I've thought that because the pimps that I've met, the pimps that I've met,

00:46:37.860 I've only maybe met three pimps, but two and a half of them, or one of them was mixed,

00:46:42.500 but two of them were full or potentially full black.

00:46:45.640 But even in rap culture, you can hear people talk about pimp culture.

00:46:49.300 Oh, yeah.

00:46:49.700 So it's like very, it's very clear that that's a subculture of.

00:46:53.480 I just didn't know if it was also Chinese or Russian type of thing, you know?

00:46:57.140 Do you see a lot of that Vietnamese stuff?

00:46:59.060 No, no, in my career, I didn't see that.

00:47:01.580 But in New York, I know that, you know, the Russians have a lock on a lot of different

00:47:05.200 vices in New York.

00:47:06.880 That didn't really translate into Vegas as much.

00:47:10.160 At a certain point, do you let the women trick?

00:47:15.140 Do you let them do whatever they got to do out there?

00:47:17.220 Like, I mean, what do you kind of, you just want to make sure they're safe at a certain

00:47:19.740 point, if you know the crime is going to go on, right?

00:47:22.180 If it's a kind of a fluid crime that happens regularly, is there more of an idea like,

00:47:29.060 okay, we just want this to happen safely?

00:47:31.120 Or is it more of an idea of like, we want to stop this?

00:47:34.320 So it's a very good question.

00:47:35.880 So there's only so much you could do, right?

00:47:37.740 So the primary responsibility for a patrol officer is to respond to calls for service.

00:47:43.280 So I'm going to speak to when I was a patrol officer.

00:47:45.520 And I'm talking about prostitution.

00:47:46.820 Right, for prostitution.

00:47:47.460 So, I mean, you see two or three prostitutes walking up and down the street.

00:47:51.020 I mean, you can only stop one.

00:47:52.700 But most of the time, they would, if they sold a patrol car, they would just keep walking.

00:47:58.140 And if I hung out in the area long enough, they would realize that no trick is going

00:48:01.500 to stop and pick them up.

00:48:03.760 So you could affect it like that.

00:48:05.760 But then you get a call for service, and then you got to leave.

00:48:07.940 And then they're going to be back doing exactly what they want to do.

00:48:11.260 Is it, was it a crime that I was really super concerned about?

00:48:14.160 No, it wasn't.

00:48:15.120 But it looks bad when I'm part of the responsible party of keeping that area safe.

00:48:21.440 And you know, if you have a prostitution situation going on, either something else is going to

00:48:26.020 occur, you know, connected to that.

00:48:27.760 There's either she's going to get beat up, or she's going to steal his money.

00:48:31.980 A lot of times they would do that to guys.

00:48:33.520 If they felt like they could take their money, because they weren't, the guy wouldn't report

00:48:36.660 it to the police.

00:48:37.340 That would happen for low level, for people who wanted to buy drugs, too.

00:48:40.920 You would get these kids from the Midwest to come there, or they're in Vegas.

00:48:43.480 It's, okay, we go down on Fremont, let's go buy some, whatever they want to buy, and

00:48:47.540 I'm going to fill in the blank of whatever drug it could be.

00:48:50.560 And they would just get, they would just rob them.

00:48:52.120 They would give them whatever, and they'd say, go.

00:48:54.060 Call the police, if you know, and then what are they going to do?

00:48:56.280 They're not going to call the police.

00:48:57.400 And then you got all of this crap going on, and it looks bad.

00:48:59.940 It's like, why are tax dollars paying for the police if we're not going to keep the

00:49:03.660 area clear?

00:49:04.160 So I think to answer your question, what I would do mostly is I would leave the prostitutes

00:49:08.440 alone with the exception of interacting with them to say, hey, it's time to clear out.

00:49:12.960 Do officers respond to in-casino activities, or do in-casino security respond to those so

00:49:20.120 that it's not a public thing?

00:49:21.440 Right.

00:49:21.680 So the casino security are pretty high level.

00:49:23.660 They're pretty well trained.

00:49:24.980 They handle what they can, but they can't arrest anyone.

00:49:27.780 So if it's a felony, we have to come and take care of it.

00:49:31.420 For most misdemeanors, a lot of times they would give a person a warning.

00:49:34.440 I got called to casinos a lot of times for a lot of different things.

00:49:37.920 I mean, because, you know, people get drunk, high.

00:49:41.080 You know, I told you if we have dead bodies, obviously the police have to respond to dead

00:49:44.080 bodies.

00:49:45.340 That's crazy.

00:49:46.300 Oh, yeah.

00:49:46.760 But, and a lot of times people die in these casinos.

00:49:50.780 What do they die?

00:49:51.460 Overdoses, probably?

00:49:52.180 A lot of times it's overdoses.

00:49:53.560 Really?

00:49:53.760 And is it a lot of times just people doing cocaine by themselves?

00:49:57.360 Is it, what is it you think?

00:50:00.240 So let me speak to the things I can specifically remember.

00:50:03.300 So sometimes it's been just over parting, overexertion of their heart.

00:50:07.540 And it could be a combination of using drugs, trying to have some sex that they weren't

00:50:11.940 trying, weren't capable of doing.

00:50:13.680 But a lot of times it's an overexertion and trying to put too much in a weekend and thinking

00:50:17.220 that Vegas is going to be the panacea to whatever they had going on in their life back in

00:50:21.540 Minnesota.

00:50:22.100 And it wasn't.

00:50:22.680 Yeah.

00:50:24.440 Was there ever like a murder in a casino?

00:50:27.280 A murder in a casino?

00:50:28.820 No, I don't, I've never ever responded to a murder in a casino.

00:50:31.740 I've responded to a lot of different murders, but in the patrol capacity, a lot of times

00:50:36.060 those murders were either a robbery.

00:50:40.060 The really sad ones were obviously the domestic violence ones.

00:50:43.440 But the casinos, they did a pretty decent job of the ones, the casinos that I've dealt with

00:50:50.480 of kind of monitoring their clientele.

00:50:52.360 They've done, Vegas, because you don't, you get issues like that and then people are not

00:50:55.940 going to come back to your casino.

00:50:56.880 Yeah.

00:50:57.020 Vegas is run by money.

00:50:57.760 And most of the directors of these casinos are people who were prior, who were cops before.

00:51:02.880 Oh, that's true.

00:51:03.900 Yeah.

00:51:04.180 It's just like, yeah, people that lobby and people that work in Congress, like you're only

00:51:08.860 so far from the other side.

00:51:10.140 Yes.

00:51:10.360 It's like, once you know so much about being an officer, at a certain point, the criminals

00:51:15.360 might hire you because you know so much about being an officer.

00:51:17.580 It's like, so many things are kind of simpatico like that.

00:51:21.460 What about, did prostitutes offer cop stuff a lot?

00:51:24.720 Does that happen or no?

00:51:26.200 Yeah, there were some cops that have gotten in trouble for getting some of the prostitution

00:51:29.680 stuff on the side.

00:51:31.140 And that's another thing is that, do you ever heard of the term badge bunnies?

00:51:34.800 Mm-mm.

00:51:35.680 So it's not just prostitutes.

00:51:37.600 It's just a lot of times women in general would offer police, you know, sex or sexual

00:51:43.940 activities.

00:51:44.800 Yeah.

00:51:45.180 Activities.

00:51:45.720 Oh, yeah.

00:51:46.040 A lot of the chicks over by, we had a footlocker bus.

00:51:48.360 A lot of chicks over there was always trying to slurp on the cops or whatever.

00:51:52.040 Yeah.

00:51:52.240 My, one of my tack officers, the guys who teach you when you're in academy, he said, this

00:51:57.540 badge will get you a whole bunch of coochie, but one coochie will take that badge away.

00:52:01.880 Damn.

00:52:02.960 And it's true.

00:52:03.760 And with a lot of, a lot of officers still like, whatever, this is part of my.

00:52:07.600 I had a cough one time.

00:52:09.880 This dude was super squared away.

00:52:11.760 I mean, tall, good looking.

00:52:13.720 I mean, straight out of central casting.

00:52:15.940 And I'm definitely not going to say his name.

00:52:17.680 I had a ton of respect for this guy.

00:52:18.880 For sure.

00:52:19.180 In fact, I think he was good enough to almost play professional baseball.

00:52:22.820 If I recall, he went, I was his, I was his boss at the time.

00:52:27.660 And he, he goes on a call and this girl, he was supposed to take a, I think a burglary

00:52:33.460 report, if I recall.

00:52:34.740 And he ends up hooking up with the girl and realizes that he screwed up.

00:52:44.200 And so, and the girls, I guess, having feelings for him.

00:52:48.060 And so like how he ends up going and putting like a hoodie on and going and trying to buy

00:52:53.620 the morning after pill at a convenience store or whatever, or CVS, wherever you can buy the

00:52:58.520 morning after pill.

00:52:59.300 And he had called me and said, Hey, I'm not feeling well.

00:53:01.420 Can I get off early?

00:53:02.780 And I, this guy was so sharp.

00:53:04.500 I was like, yeah, go ahead, go, go home.

00:53:06.120 And it, so he, and he tells the girl, he wants her to take the morning after pill.

00:53:10.300 And then she ends up calling the police, calling the police.

00:53:13.560 And then it turned and he lost his job over it.

00:53:16.240 And then there's a video of him.

00:53:18.420 This is like a married guy with a, with a hoodie on going in and buying the morning after

00:53:22.960 pill.

00:53:23.960 Um, and it's just, it was that, that, that temptation story involving me.

00:53:29.020 I went on a call, it was loud music call and it was all these girls that came in drunk

00:53:33.320 from a, from a party, all really hot girls.

00:53:37.140 And it was like three of us on the call and we told him to turn the music down.

00:53:40.140 And this beautiful girl looks at me and she says, and they're like, Oh, she got her navel

00:53:43.740 pierced.

00:53:44.160 She got her navel pierced.

00:53:45.600 And, um, I was like, Oh, cool.

00:53:47.440 And then she goes like this.

00:53:48.340 She goes, look and pulled a dress up, no panties on and showed me her navel piercing.

00:53:53.100 Yeah.

00:53:53.940 That's kind of stuff happens.

00:53:55.520 And what do you do?

00:53:57.180 Can't even, I'm just kidding.

00:53:58.520 Of course you can look or not.

00:54:00.300 Of course.

00:54:00.840 I mean, she was standing right there.

00:54:02.000 I wasn't, you know, I just said, no.

00:54:03.320 Well, you know, we're going to leave, you know, you got to be professional and you got

00:54:06.120 to go, but you're going to get that kind of stuff all the time.

00:54:09.420 I mean, there was a time, I mean, you write people tickets, they track you down and you

00:54:13.820 want to, you know, meet up or connect or whatever.

00:54:16.180 There are people who just have a thing for police.

00:54:18.480 Is it hard to say no to that type of thing now at some points?

00:54:20.680 No, because you get off shift.

00:54:22.020 I mean, you get off shift and you can, you know, meet the person after you don't have to

00:54:26.760 try to do it on duty.

00:54:27.880 Oh, so you could still do it at off duty.

00:54:30.040 It depends on what kind of situation it is.

00:54:31.580 There were guys, now there are cops who have banged the, the white, they were, this

00:54:37.460 happened, stories happen more than once where a guy, a cop arrests a guy, the husband for

00:54:41.080 domestic violence and hooks up with the wife.

00:54:42.980 No.

00:54:43.500 That's happened more than once.

00:54:44.700 What's that called?

00:54:46.300 Is there a felony?

00:54:47.300 I mean, a bad business.

00:54:49.360 I mean, it's just, it's really bad business.

00:54:52.160 I mean, it's.

00:54:52.640 I mean, I was wondering if there's a term for that.

00:54:54.260 Yeah, it's, it's bad.

00:54:55.320 It's, it's a very, very bad thing.

00:54:56.960 What are some of the, I heard you talk about suicide earlier with the guy, or maybe it

00:55:00.500 was drug use where it was Valentine's day, I guess.

00:55:02.980 The Valentine's day guy.

00:55:03.480 Is that a scary time?

00:55:04.600 Like what's like one of the most dangerous holidays?

00:55:06.900 New Year's Eve.

00:55:07.660 Really?

00:55:08.320 And I didn't like working New Year's Eve because so many people shoot guns in the air and all

00:55:11.540 kinds of stuff like that.

00:55:12.380 And I remember when I went on a call one time, a lot of it's Mexican people, I think, but

00:55:16.220 I'm not saying any, and whites.

00:55:19.300 Well, the story that I went to is a lady, what goes up must come down.

00:55:24.880 Yeah.

00:55:25.080 Someone shot a gun up and bullet came down and was right in her, in her boob.

00:55:30.220 Yeah.

00:55:31.180 So that's a cautionary tale to people who go out and shoot on Valentine's day.

00:55:34.820 Of course we didn't catch the guy, but yeah.

00:55:36.500 So I didn't, I didn't, and New Year's Eve is just people getting wild and drunk and fighting.

00:55:40.180 The one time a person spit in my face was on New Year's Eve.

00:55:43.800 A woman.

00:55:44.720 What do you do then?

00:55:46.540 It was tough.

00:55:47.800 Theo, I was going to, I was about to retire, man.

00:55:50.040 And this girl was just incredibly drunk.

00:55:53.060 You know, she couldn't go into the casino.

00:55:54.960 We ended up getting her into custody.

00:55:56.620 My officers got her in custody and I'm trying to calm her down face to face.

00:55:59.480 And she just spit right in my face, man.

00:56:03.080 I'm telling you, it took everything.

00:56:05.140 You know, I saw my whole career passing through my, you know, and it was just,

00:56:10.180 and she ended up getting booked on that.

00:56:11.740 Cause you know, you, that's a crime obviously.

00:56:13.820 And we went to court and she was dressed up completely nice.

00:56:16.760 And they offered her a deal.

00:56:18.460 If I would agree to her getting deal.

00:56:20.420 And I, and I gave her the deal, man.

00:56:22.080 Wow.

00:56:22.640 Gave her the deal.

00:56:23.500 It's people get drunk and do stupid things, man.

00:56:25.240 It's sucked getting, you know, it's not only does the smell and all that other stuff suck,

00:56:29.240 but what sucks is being humiliated on Fremont street on new year's Eve in front of thousands

00:56:35.840 of people and seeing people laughing at you for being spit upon suck, man.

00:56:40.540 It really did.

00:56:41.100 But I, but you gotta, you know, to me, you gotta learn to forgive, man.

00:56:44.760 Yeah.

00:56:45.120 Well, you're out there though, in moments like, yes, you do.

00:56:47.400 It's really, it's interesting.

00:56:48.440 Cause I feel like we're at this juxtaposition sometimes in society where it's like,

00:56:52.240 you know, yes, you want to treat people with respect.

00:56:56.160 Yes.

00:56:56.440 You want, um, people to, you know, you want to believe that all people are good, but then

00:57:03.480 it also, you, it starts to be like, it feels like the bad stuff is winning sometimes.

00:57:09.400 But I don't think that all people are good.

00:57:10.940 I think that we are human that are capable of doing things that we don't even know that

00:57:16.720 we're capable of doing.

00:57:18.060 I have this thought that we have placed in the right or wrong circumstance.

00:57:21.720 A person that you would think would not do a certain thing would do that certain thing.

00:57:26.060 That's the thing about being human.

00:57:27.900 That's the beauty of, of free will to some degree, in my opinion.

00:57:31.360 Right.

00:57:31.800 There's that famous case where someone was giving someone an order, like through a wall

00:57:37.320 or something.

00:57:38.000 Can you find it really quick?

00:57:38.820 Oh, and they were asking to shock and they, and they, yeah, I think I know which case you're

00:57:42.720 talking about.

00:57:43.120 And the person, yeah, they, yeah, the Milgram experience there is, um, in 1961, a series of

00:57:47.840 social psychology experiments were conducted by Yale university.

00:57:51.720 Uh, psychologist, Stanley Milgram, who intended to measure the willingness of study participants

00:57:57.360 to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts conflicting with their

00:58:02.280 personal conscience.

00:58:03.780 Participants were led to believe that they were assisting a fictitious experiment in which

00:58:08.160 they had to administer electric shocks to a learner, which was another person.

00:58:12.660 These fake electric shocks gradually increased to levels that would have been fatal had they

00:58:16.800 been real.

00:58:17.960 What about the McDonald's one?

00:58:18.900 Do you, are you familiar with the McDonald's case, the police case where the guy craziest

00:58:22.420 thing I've ever heard?

00:58:23.400 And just because he thought it was a cop, they were willing to go to that degree.

00:58:26.580 This is the craziest thing that ever happened.

00:58:28.320 The strip search phone call scam was a series of incidents mostly occurring in rural areas

00:58:32.140 of the U S that extended over a period of at least 10 years.

00:58:34.520 Starting in 1994, the incidents involved a man calling a restaurant or grocery store.

00:58:41.180 And oftentimes it was a McDonald's claiming to be a police officer and then convincing managers

00:58:45.640 to conduct strip searches of employees and to perform other bizarre and humiliating acts

00:58:52.100 on behalf of the police.

00:58:54.340 I'm sorry to laugh, but the shit is unreal.

00:58:57.680 With every hoax, a male caller who identified himself as a police officer, uh, would contact

00:59:03.700 a manager or supervisor and would solicit their help in detaining an employee or customer who

00:59:07.820 was suspected of a crime such as a theft or drug possession.

00:59:11.260 He would then provide a generic description of the suspect like, Oh, it's a female employee,

00:59:16.220 et cetera, which the manager would recognize.

00:59:18.080 And then he would ask the manager to search the suspected person.

00:59:20.920 So basically he's had a guy calling up a McDonald's.

00:59:24.620 Oh, eventually the caller would have groomed the manager to the point where they would

00:59:28.580 do almost anything asked by the caller, such as spanking, kissing, inappropriate touching,

00:59:34.520 oral sex, and even, and even sexual assault and rape.

00:59:38.640 Many of the incidents would last hours.

00:59:42.700 I'm sorry, man.

00:59:43.780 This is not funny.

00:59:44.560 I don't know what I think there's something about it that many of this is crazy.

00:59:50.720 It's like, okay, good.

00:59:52.360 But many of the incidents would last hours before either of the participants of the strip

00:59:56.740 search realized the call is a hoax or by the intervention of a bystander.

01:00:01.180 Do we know what even came, is it even crazier?

01:00:03.280 This became a form of porn that became super popular.

01:00:06.280 Really?

01:00:06.920 Yes.

01:00:07.500 Where they were having, it would look, they were just filming it exactly like that.

01:00:11.380 God.

01:00:12.360 Yeah.

01:00:12.560 I did a deep dive on this whole thing.

01:00:14.260 Yeah.

01:00:14.420 This thing is fascinating.

01:00:15.880 Um, yeah, basically they would call, they would have the manager, they would get the manager

01:00:19.560 on the phone and they'd be like, uh, yeah, I'm calling, uh, with the police.

01:00:22.860 Um, we have security camera footage that one of your employees has been stealing.

01:00:27.520 They would give a description of the employee.

01:00:29.580 Then the manager would bring the employee into the back room with the police, alleged police

01:00:34.780 officer still on the phone and be like, okay, yeah, I need you to have the employee take

01:00:39.800 off their shirt.

01:00:40.340 Right.

01:00:40.660 Yes.

01:00:41.400 And a lot of times the person might have access to the cameras in the, um, in the McDonald's

01:00:48.860 or in the restaurant so they can actually watch this somewhere afar.

01:00:52.720 Right.

01:00:52.960 Yeah.

01:00:53.620 So, but anyway, they'd be like, yeah, now have the person lift up their arms, have them

01:00:56.840 take off their bra or their pants or whatever, spread their leg.

01:00:59.640 And you have this, this is fucking crazy.

01:01:03.440 You have a manager at McDonald's and an employee at McDonald's.

01:01:06.660 And now they're both looking at each other's private parts for something.

01:01:11.260 They didn't even say what they stole a lot of times.

01:01:13.040 Like, what are they going to say?

01:01:13.740 Like, you know, and one of them was a husband and wife, the manager, the male manager and

01:01:17.860 the female was a husband, was a wife.

01:01:19.780 That's the best.

01:01:20.520 Yeah.

01:01:20.820 The, the, the, the lady was like, oh my God.

01:01:24.100 Cause she was a manager.

01:01:25.080 She's like, it's busy today.

01:01:26.120 I have to get back to work.

01:01:27.060 She's like, let me call my husband who I trust.

01:01:30.200 Yes.

01:01:31.500 And let him do it.

01:01:32.500 To come down here and finish this examination of this, of this female employee.

01:01:38.540 So now you have the husband of the McDonald's manager sitting there, strip searching a female

01:01:45.080 employee who's done nothing.

01:01:46.600 The whole time there's a cop on the phone.

01:01:48.320 It's been a couple hours now.

01:01:50.120 And they, at one point they told the girl, the woman, I believe to blow job the man.

01:01:54.520 So now you have somebody who allegedly stole from McDonald's blowing the boyfriend of

01:02:01.800 a man.

01:02:02.720 I just, sorry, this is crazy.

01:02:04.740 I don't understand how they could go that far.

01:02:07.300 And then at a certain point, the janitor literally gets on the phone.

01:02:11.020 Yeah.

01:02:11.420 This is a part right here on February, 2003, a phone call is made to a McDonald's and hi.

01:02:15.140 I'm sorry, man.

01:02:15.960 This shit in Heinzville, Georgia, the female manager who believes she was speaking to a police

01:02:19.760 officer who was with the director of operations for the restaurants, upper management.

01:02:23.420 That too, but she believes she was speaking to took a female employee into the women's

01:02:26.980 bathroom, a strip searcher.

01:02:28.140 She also brought on a 55 year old male janitor who conducted a body cavity search of the woman

01:02:33.880 to uncover hidden drugs.

01:02:36.860 Yeah.

01:02:37.220 It's just crazy.

01:02:37.780 And then the J and I think it was a different instance, but the janitor got on the phone

01:02:41.240 one time.

01:02:41.620 It's like, Oh, this guy's just screwing around.

01:02:43.120 Yeah.

01:02:43.700 Yeah.

01:02:44.640 So then people are just standing there naked and like, what the fuck just happened?

01:02:49.720 God, this is crazy that this was just such a huge thing.

01:02:53.420 It happened.

01:02:54.380 Can you imagine that?

01:02:55.660 And it started, I couldn't believe it was true.

01:02:58.300 I could not believe it was true.

01:02:59.280 And it started when you were saying about the authority, right?

01:03:02.060 Like just authoritative voice or thinking that it's a police officer.

01:03:05.020 These people will be willing to do that.

01:03:06.600 It's unbelievable to me.

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01:05:12.100 Thank you.

01:05:13.860 Yeah.

01:05:14.520 Can you take me on a call that kind of baffled you or still sticks with you?

01:05:18.780 This one is tough, man.

01:05:20.700 So the call comes out and this was a swing shift call.

01:05:24.540 So it's usually right before, you know, after 3 p.m., swing shifts, 3 p.m. until about 1 a.m.

01:05:31.000 So the night hours about 9 to 11 are the hours where things really pop off.

01:05:36.240 So this call comes out where these guys are screaming on the phone,

01:05:40.820 my brother's been shot, my brother's been shot, my brother's been shot.

01:05:43.500 It happened at the Circle K.

01:05:45.600 So I drive up to the address of where it is and these two guys are on the sidewalk just wailing, like freaked.

01:05:53.580 Like I know that's true.

01:05:55.380 That's why it's hard for me to watch TV shows.

01:05:56.920 But these guys are truly in trauma and they're wailing.

01:06:00.400 And I could see the car where they're talking about it.

01:06:02.680 They're like, my brother, my brother, my brother.

01:06:04.120 And I go to the car and I get to the window and I see this, like, this guy had a lot of hair.

01:06:12.020 It was all matted and mush and you can tell that he wasn't moving.

01:06:15.860 And I open and his face was just, because he had been shot in the head, his face was just mush.

01:06:22.440 And it was just all this nasty purple blood and everything.

01:06:25.320 So I close the door and I go and I talk to the brothers and they tell me that they were driving by the Circle K and that someone shot at them.

01:06:32.660 And I was like, it just didn't make a lot of sense to me that, you know, the entry wound was in the back of the head and there's no entry in the window of the car.

01:06:44.740 What turns out is it was three brothers in the car and the brother in the backseat was playing with the gun.

01:06:49.260 And he put it to his brother's head, joking around, and he pulled the trigger and shot and killed his brother.

01:06:55.380 And so in that short period of time, the two alive brothers have to figure out a story because this happened very, very quickly.

01:07:03.900 And I remember when I, because the brothers ended up confessing to this, is the trauma of killing your brother and then having to make up a story about it and having to deal with that grief.

01:07:17.840 One of the most like wild, crazy things, because you do have, it was an accident, but it's negligence, but.

01:07:25.840 Right.

01:07:26.240 But the biggest crime is that he, that he has to almost didn't deal with this burden.

01:07:31.540 Yeah.

01:07:32.280 Of killing his own brother.

01:07:33.380 It almost sounds Shakespearean or something.

01:07:34.940 It is.

01:07:35.460 And you know, that's, you know, playing with guns is another thing because one of the first calls I ever had to translate on was because we had, we have AAA.

01:07:42.620 Well, I don't say we, cause I don't live there anymore, but in Vegas, they have AAA baseball and they have this AAA team.

01:07:48.040 This guy had Tommy John surgery and a Dominican guy had Tommy John.

01:07:52.460 And so he was partying with his friends.

01:07:55.440 They brought some girls over and he was playing with a gun and shot this young girl in the head.

01:08:00.980 She was probably like 19 years old, killed her.

01:08:03.020 And I walk into the, I walk into the, I walk upstairs, I walk into the apartment and the girl, her eyes were open and she was just to the side like this.

01:08:11.080 And the guy is just like, he's completely freaked out and he's thinking about his career.

01:08:15.560 Right.

01:08:16.600 And so he didn't speak English.

01:08:18.760 So I'm, you know, translating to him in Spanish.

01:08:20.960 And I'm like, the stupidity again of playing with a freaking gun.

01:08:26.340 You just, this life is done.

01:08:27.980 You know, you, I mean, you're done.

01:08:29.680 Your career is what you're thinking about right now.

01:08:31.740 How do you live with that?

01:08:33.180 Don't even think about the legal stuff that you have to go through.

01:08:36.220 Living with the fact that you took this like 18 or 19 year old girl's life because you wanted to show off and play with your gun.

01:08:41.740 So that like, there's another lesson.

01:08:43.260 It's like, do not play with freaking guns and they're not toys.

01:08:47.060 They're really not toys.

01:08:48.260 And so many people do.

01:08:49.620 So many people do.

01:08:51.240 It's ridiculous, dude.

01:08:52.780 I wouldn't, yeah, we had a kid in high school and there was, I guess, kids playing poker together and he was messing with the gun and shot, shot himself.

01:09:01.740 There were two brothers in our town and one of them, they were playing Russian roulette together and they were idiots.

01:09:08.760 I'll be honest.

01:09:09.320 They were dumb, not smart guys.

01:09:12.460 And one of them shot himself.

01:09:15.720 I mean, but what a weird one.

01:09:17.320 And you're sitting, you're the brother.

01:09:19.260 You're like, what even?

01:09:20.680 We could have played a no, we could have played hoops or something.

01:09:23.980 You know, it's just like, it's heartbreaking, man.

01:09:27.700 Responsible gun ownership is good.

01:09:29.000 But, you know, when, when it comes to playing with guns or showing off with guns, I mean, it's, it's just one of the stupidest things that you can possibly.

01:09:35.900 Have you ever been involved in a shooting?

01:09:37.380 Yes, I have.

01:09:38.100 And in fact, I was mentioning earlier, I have, it's involved in two and I was a sergeant on nine.

01:09:42.820 You were a sergeant on nine different shootings.

01:09:45.480 Yeah.

01:09:45.660 So I've, I'm intimately.

01:09:47.320 And a shooting means somebody shot somebody or it means somebody shot an officer.

01:09:50.900 It means an officer shot someone.

01:09:52.160 It can be in any of those, but, but, but the ones I was involved in, the, and the one that I was specifically with references, this interesting story was a, a cop buddy of mine.

01:10:01.560 This, this mom had, was taking her kids out and having one of the kids like make a commotion and then the rest of the kids would steal stuff and run out.

01:10:10.320 So my buddy had a warrant for.

01:10:12.620 At a grocery store?

01:10:14.060 Like a, more like those, uh, target type places.

01:10:16.940 Got it.

01:10:17.720 My buddy had a warrant for one of the people in the family and he asked me to go with them to serve it.

01:10:21.400 And it was, it was an arrest warrant.

01:10:22.680 So we get to the apartment community and he thinks he sees one of the guys involved in this thing.

01:10:29.420 And, and, and the guy I remember he had on these red cargo shorts, a white t-shirt, white, wife beater.

01:10:37.680 And, uh, he goes, that's the guy.

01:10:40.180 So there's a thing that we do is we'll call contact cover where one officer does all the talking and the other one covers to make sure that, um, the person's not doing anything.

01:10:48.400 Oh, okay.

01:10:48.860 So the guy up front can feel comfortable knowing that the guy behind him, his soul, his soul purpose is just to see if this dude tries to make a single move.

01:10:57.660 Yep.

01:10:57.780 It's called contact cover.

01:10:58.900 And so I was the cover officer.

01:11:00.760 And as I'm looking at the guy, I see in his cargo pocket, the outline of a gun.

01:11:05.860 And so our code for gun is four 13.

01:11:10.220 So I made the fourth, I give four 13 to him, to the office.

01:11:13.780 Oh, my guy sees it.

01:11:14.960 He's like, Oh shoot.

01:11:15.820 So the guy was being a no.

01:11:18.300 So there was yes, people, no people, maybe people.

01:11:20.180 And the guy was being a maybe, maybe person, like maybe I'll comply and that maybe people, we want to get them in custody.

01:11:25.580 So I made the choice that I knew I could tell it was a gun.

01:11:28.920 So I made the choice that I went and I grabbed it and this guy yanked away from me and he got away.

01:11:34.920 And so the foot pursuit starts and he reaches into his cargo pocket and I'm running after him, gun drawn.

01:11:43.460 And this was around 435 o'clock in Vegas.

01:11:47.100 So it's still very light outside and I'm running after him and he keeps turning around and looking at me.

01:11:52.320 And I keep saying, if you pull that gun out of your pocket, if I'm screaming, if you pull that gun, if you pull that, and then he pulled the gun and I lit him up.

01:11:58.940 And I remember after I shot that, you know, he does a somersault and everyone in this place is screaming.

01:12:06.680 At the target?

01:12:07.380 At the apartment complex.

01:12:08.400 At the apartment complex.

01:12:09.020 Everyone's screaming.

01:12:10.720 And they were, this place was kind of anti-police.

01:12:12.920 They're like, Oh, he shot that guy.

01:12:14.360 He shot that guy.

01:12:15.360 And the guy's mom came out.

01:12:17.840 She was one of the first people to come out.

01:12:19.920 He lived.

01:12:22.060 It turned out that it was a replica gun.

01:12:24.660 It wasn't even a real gun.

01:12:25.680 Replica.

01:12:26.220 It was a replica that looked like a firearm.

01:12:28.140 It was not even a real weapon.

01:12:29.320 It was not a fireable weapon.

01:12:30.680 It was a replica.

01:12:32.640 That is even dumber than anything.

01:12:34.940 Well, it makes sense.

01:12:35.840 But actually it's a blessing, then.

01:12:36.720 It was.

01:12:37.440 It makes sense.

01:12:38.240 It makes sense to you.

01:12:38.940 Why?

01:12:39.140 Sorry.

01:12:39.340 Because a lot of those guys, they'll rob people with them.

01:12:42.960 Oh, I see.

01:12:43.960 Or if someone, you know, and he's a gang member.

01:12:47.300 And so a lot of times they'll flash those.

01:12:49.660 Or if they have the inability to get something, that's better than nothing.

01:12:52.460 But it was just a credibly, and it became a race thing, which was really weird because

01:12:59.140 I'm not white.

01:13:00.980 You know, but the media portrays things a certain way and it flips.

01:13:04.060 Was it a black perpetrator?

01:13:05.860 Yes.

01:13:06.080 Okay.

01:13:06.460 Yes.

01:13:07.060 Well, he was.

01:13:08.660 He is.

01:13:08.960 He's still alive.

01:13:09.600 Wow.

01:13:11.580 And do you choose at that point?

01:13:13.220 Are you trying to maim someone?

01:13:14.780 Are you trying to just slow them down?

01:13:15.540 No, no.

01:13:16.080 We shoot to incapacitate.

01:13:17.960 You're taught to shoot center mass.

01:13:19.940 But again, do you train running at full speed through the power of communities?

01:13:23.820 There's a whole bunch of different dynamic that come into play.

01:13:26.800 Yeah.

01:13:27.020 That's got to be kind of fascinating with a lot of race.

01:13:29.400 Yeah.

01:13:29.840 There's so much racial stuff surrounding police and policing.

01:13:34.780 Yeah.

01:13:35.520 What does that look like from the inside?

01:13:37.600 What's that?

01:13:37.960 Because if you were, if it was a black group and you got accused and you're Dominican.

01:13:42.380 No, I'm half black, half white.

01:13:44.100 Oh, you are.

01:13:44.560 Okay.

01:13:44.920 So you're black and white.

01:13:46.260 Well, actually, both of my parents are kind of mixed.

01:13:48.140 So I guess I'm, but I'm considering myself black.

01:13:50.580 Yeah.

01:13:51.060 But I speak Spanish because I learned to speak Spanish as an adult.

01:13:55.140 That was an intent of mine.

01:13:56.520 I respect cultures.

01:13:57.680 I think that, and I lived in another country that spoke Spanish.

01:14:00.220 So I felt that if you go into another country, learn their language.

01:14:02.940 I think that makes good sense.

01:14:04.180 It just helps you probably too.

01:14:05.820 100%.

01:14:06.220 Yeah.

01:14:06.560 And probably help you so much in your service and your, and you know, because immediately

01:14:10.260 you can relate with somebody else.

01:14:11.740 Yes.

01:14:12.240 On a level that a lot of people wouldn't be able to.

01:14:15.480 Yeah.

01:14:15.860 What is rape?

01:14:16.520 What is that profile?

01:14:17.620 What is that?

01:14:18.140 Like, there's so much racial stuff that revolves around the police all the time.

01:14:22.080 Does that get uncomfortable out there in the streets?

01:14:23.700 What is it like?

01:14:24.340 It's really interesting because, you know, a lot of people being a white cop is really,

01:14:31.260 really difficult.

01:14:31.940 A white male cop, because so often the default is that you did it because I'm this race and

01:14:40.020 you're white.

01:14:40.480 And I was around cops for 20 plus years.

01:14:44.260 And I can't, I can only think of one instance, one instance where there was an overtly racial

01:14:52.380 thing that occurred.

01:14:53.840 And it was a, it was a comment that was made in a briefing room.

01:14:58.420 And, but as far as the treating of a person, because they were a certain race, I've never

01:15:04.380 seen that.

01:15:05.020 And I'm, I'm hypersensitive to that kind of stuff.

01:15:07.660 Like I study that.

01:15:08.980 In fact, I taught it for a while and taught, what is that called?

01:15:13.740 So some people call it diversity.

01:15:15.960 I call, my class was called human and I called it the sole search warrant.

01:15:20.400 And I think that we all have biases.

01:15:22.320 All of us have biases.

01:15:23.900 Oh, for sure.

01:15:24.660 And I think that you as a comedian know that part of those biases is what makes a lot of

01:15:30.480 comedy funny.

01:15:31.300 And most black comedians, the first thing that they talk about is how black people are

01:15:35.220 a certain way and white people are a certain way.

01:15:36.960 I mean, that, that's just kind of how we are, but we get along and it works.

01:15:41.760 But in policing to default that because one person is one color and another person is

01:15:45.700 another color is the wrong way to look at it.

01:15:47.840 I mean, this whole thing that happened with George Floyd, I mean, we're talking billions

01:15:52.740 of dollars and people who were, the cities are destroyed and all that stuff.

01:15:57.000 I have yet to see a piece of evidence that Derek Chauvin did that because George Floyd is

01:16:03.900 black.

01:16:04.680 I haven't seen that.

01:16:05.960 Now, can I speak to the tactics?

01:16:07.800 I can, of course, speak to the tactics.

01:16:10.100 But right.

01:16:10.640 Was race involved or was just a guy maybe who didn't use the best tactics in the moment

01:16:14.320 who was probably also scared?

01:16:16.420 Who knows what was going on?

01:16:17.760 I don't know exactly what he testified.

01:16:19.920 I studied that case.

01:16:20.860 You did?

01:16:21.220 I did.

01:16:21.800 What did he, what, what did Chauvin say?

01:16:24.060 So I can tell you that.

01:16:25.940 So here were the factors, and this is a big can of worms for us to open up, but I'll speak

01:16:30.620 to some specifics because, you know, there now there's a push that he should be released,

01:16:35.720 right?

01:16:35.880 I've seen that recently.

01:16:36.640 I've seen that.

01:16:36.980 But you're a police officer.

01:16:37.940 Are you, you've been a sergeant?

01:16:39.520 Yes.

01:16:39.760 You know, so I'll tell you, I'll tell you my thoughts on it.

01:16:42.140 You want to talk to that about that?

01:16:43.400 For sure.

01:16:43.880 And you're black and white.

01:16:45.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:16:46.680 So we can help.

01:16:48.020 All right.

01:16:48.300 So I'll tell you my, here's my, here's my take on it.

01:16:52.360 Because I have cops who say, oh yeah, that he was wrongly convicted.

01:16:55.540 He was wrongly convicted.

01:16:56.460 I say, okay, let's just set that aside for a second.

01:16:59.840 You roll up on that scene and Chauvin has his knee on Floyd's neck.

01:17:06.200 Tell me what you're going to do at that point.

01:17:08.360 And he's not moving.

01:17:10.380 What are you going to do?

01:17:12.020 And every one of them says, of course, I'm going to tell him to get off.

01:17:15.040 So I said, then we need to start from that point about the sanctity of a person's life.

01:17:19.520 Let's forget about the fact that George Floyd was likely on a very high levels of fentanyl,

01:17:24.820 which was proven and all that other stuff.

01:17:26.620 But we're the professionals.

01:17:28.920 Right.

01:17:29.360 We're the professionals.

01:17:30.620 Right.

01:17:30.740 Like at what point do you not, does the governor inside of you not activate or trigger that

01:17:35.700 it's like, okay, I have to go here from policing to person from, to being human, you know, or

01:17:42.460 I don't know.

01:17:43.240 Why can't policing be, be human?

01:17:44.700 You know what I'm saying?

01:17:45.440 That's yeah.

01:17:45.920 I'll give you an example.

01:17:46.920 Theo, check this out, right?

01:17:48.820 Judge me on this really quickly.

01:17:50.060 Okay.

01:17:50.340 This is a typical car stop.

01:17:52.600 I pull you over Sergeant Curtis, Vaughn police department.

01:17:57.060 Reason I pulled you over is because you were speeding.

01:17:59.380 License, registration, and proof of insurance, please.

01:18:01.980 Grade me on that.

01:18:04.280 A, B, C, D.

01:18:05.460 I would say B.

01:18:08.220 Okay.

01:18:08.600 You give me a B on that.

01:18:09.600 Okay.

01:18:09.920 A to B.

01:18:10.560 A to B.

01:18:11.080 A to B.

01:18:11.560 Okay.

01:18:11.680 So now you go to a restaurant.

01:18:14.560 I come up to your table.

01:18:15.580 I'm like, hello, Mr. Vaughn.

01:18:17.200 My name's Christopher.

01:18:18.300 I'd like to tell you about our specials today.

01:18:19.900 We got a chicken.

01:18:20.800 We have a fish and we have a new, a tiramisu.

01:18:27.500 Grade me on that as your server.

01:18:29.020 A to B.

01:18:29.980 So I'll tell you, I would not give that server an A to B.

01:18:34.400 And most servers are going to come to you and be a lot more congenial than I was to you.

01:18:38.980 Yeah, probably.

01:18:39.880 A little more energetic.

01:18:40.660 A little more energetic, a little more congenial.

01:18:42.800 Don't, shouldn't policing be even better?

01:18:44.420 How about this?

01:18:46.140 How you doing, sir?

01:18:47.140 Sergeant Curtis, Vaughn police department.

01:18:49.440 I know this is probably not what you want to be doing right now, but I just want to explain

01:18:52.160 something to you.

01:18:52.960 We had a little kid almost got hit the other day and we're pulling people over just to

01:18:57.480 warn them to slow down a bit.

01:18:59.000 If you give me a license, registration, proof of insurance, I'll try to get you out here

01:19:01.600 as quickly as possible.

01:19:02.420 I'm sure that you probably have something else more important to do.

01:19:04.940 I just want to let you know that I'm here to help.

01:19:07.920 That was maybe what?

01:19:09.100 30 more seconds of words.

01:19:10.420 Yeah.

01:19:10.780 Do you feel different?

01:19:11.340 I'm on a date now.

01:19:12.040 Yeah.

01:19:12.720 But it changes the whole, it changes the energy.

01:19:14.900 It changes the whole thing, but this mechanics has changed.

01:19:18.420 So what happened with this?

01:19:19.600 Let's go back to what we were talking about with Chauvin and George Floyd, right?

01:19:25.920 When I watched the video, you definitely can see that George Floyd was having some issue

01:19:31.040 with being claustrophobic and getting inside the vehicle.

01:19:33.720 Okay.

01:19:34.200 Now we're not saying that it's made for comfort.

01:19:36.220 And if you get arrested, it's not going to be a fun experience, but can we be a little

01:19:40.300 bit different?

01:19:40.860 One cop said, I'll put the window down.

01:19:42.740 I'll put the window down.

01:19:43.520 And you can even see Floyd saying, I'll do the countdown.

01:19:45.860 Let me, let me count down before I get inside the car.

01:19:47.980 Is it possible?

01:19:50.600 Is it possible for us?

01:19:52.660 Because especially if the person's handcuffed to reach down into a degree of humanity to

01:19:57.560 another human being and say, you know what?

01:20:01.120 Take a deep breath.

01:20:03.380 I'll count with you.

01:20:05.080 Can we get you in the car then?

01:20:07.260 Let me tell you my name.

01:20:08.720 My name is Sergeant Curtis.

01:20:11.360 I don't want to hurt you.

01:20:12.580 Look at me in my face.

01:20:13.260 Look at me.

01:20:14.420 Take a deep breath, my man.

01:20:15.500 Okay.

01:20:16.940 I see you breathing a little bit better now.

01:20:19.020 You're going to be going to jail and you got to get in the car, but you got to work

01:20:21.820 with me.

01:20:22.800 Now, granted, I'm talking in an air conditioned place.

01:20:25.760 I slept in a great hotel last night and it's a lot easier than being in the field, but I've

01:20:28.980 been in the field.

01:20:29.920 You know, I've been in the field and I've made mistakes, but we got to be better than

01:20:34.880 kneeling on a person's neck for that period of time.

01:20:37.180 So the specifics of what he was convicted for, I know that we could pull it up and look at

01:20:42.220 it.

01:20:42.540 One of the charges I believe he was convicted for was involuntary second degree murder,

01:20:47.900 right?

01:20:48.600 I don't believe it was in, I don't believe he, I don't believe he was trying to kill

01:20:51.920 George Floyd.

01:20:53.120 I don't believe he was trying to kill him, but could his behavior have contributed to

01:20:57.480 it?

01:20:58.440 Possibly.

01:20:58.940 You're still kneeling on a person's neck for that period of time.

01:21:01.820 Yeah.

01:21:01.940 Um, yeah, that's interesting.

01:21:04.060 And then you're like thinking of what all is going around, around the environment at

01:21:07.880 that moment.

01:21:08.240 If people are, are you, do you get caught in a, almost in, cause you're a human, you're

01:21:12.500 still a human, right?

01:21:13.480 And if you're, do you get caught in some weird, um, flight or freeze?

01:21:18.500 100% you're 100% right.

01:21:20.420 Because if you listen to the tape, there's a guy on the side that's yelling at Chauvin.

01:21:24.720 He said, look what you're doing.

01:21:26.080 Get off that man's neck.

01:21:26.860 And then what happens is then it becomes a battle between the officer and this other person.

01:21:32.080 I'm standing my ground and you're yelling at me and I'm the officer here.

01:21:36.180 And nine minutes or six minutes or whatever minutes it was is really a mere seconds because

01:21:40.520 I'm locked into this as opposed to focusing on this person.

01:21:43.300 That's why bystanders to me, if you want to be a bystander, stand back, record, but don't

01:21:47.640 be yelling.

01:21:48.240 You're not helping the situation.

01:21:49.820 That ruins a lot of things.

01:21:51.040 I think it does.

01:21:52.280 But then also it's like, you wouldn't have, you know, it's just, it's so it's fascinating.

01:21:56.560 All the things that go on in that moment and how equipped are police officers, um, how

01:22:03.260 equipped are human beings to deal with all of that at once.

01:22:07.000 So now you're being recorded.

01:22:08.240 You're in control.

01:22:09.520 You're scared for your own safety.

01:22:11.900 You're should be scared for the safety of your perpetrator or the person that you're

01:22:16.560 putting under arrest.

01:22:17.480 You know, um, it just, it's, I don't know how a human system even figures all that out.

01:22:23.260 You, you, you, sometimes you don't.

01:22:24.920 And we see what happens when you don't.

01:22:26.560 That's why mental health awareness is so important for police.

01:22:29.380 It's, it's, it's so, so important and not to be stuck in that, that, that just police

01:22:35.280 ecosystem and have other things to do.

01:22:37.140 Cause that's what happened with that.

01:22:38.320 In my opinion, that's what happened with that Chauvin thing.

01:22:40.900 Is what?

01:22:41.640 That he got locked into.

01:22:43.140 I'm the officer.

01:22:43.960 Cause police have this thing called ask, tell, make.

01:22:46.580 Ask, tell, make.

01:22:48.440 You ask them to do it.

01:22:49.200 They don't do it.

01:22:49.680 You tell them to do it.

01:22:50.740 Then you make them do it.

01:22:52.040 Got it.

01:22:52.240 That's it.

01:22:52.700 But that model only works sometimes.

01:22:58.160 There is a model.

01:22:59.340 So the father of modern day policing is a guy named Sir Robert Peel.

01:23:05.820 Back in the 1800s, he created the first modern policing in England.

01:23:11.000 Sir Robert Peel known as the father of modern policing for establishing the first modern police

01:23:14.540 force in London.

01:23:15.520 That's why they call police bobbies because of after him.

01:23:18.040 Oh, Robert.

01:23:20.020 Yeah.

01:23:20.220 Bobby Peel.

01:23:21.880 Known as bobbies or peelers.

01:23:23.260 How did Peel perform policing?

01:23:24.860 Go ahead.

01:23:25.340 So what he did was really interesting.

01:23:27.080 He, he created, you know, this thing where it was the principles of, of policing that really

01:23:33.560 the policing should be modeled after.

01:23:35.440 I think that you could probably pull those up, the nine principles of policing.

01:23:38.560 But one of them that I find interesting and that I've always had, he talks about persuasion,

01:23:43.920 advice, and warning.

01:23:46.460 I remember because of PAW, persuasion, advice, and warning.

01:23:49.160 So while modern day police have asked, tell, make, Peel talked of this thing called persuasion,

01:23:55.040 advice, and warning.

01:23:56.540 So is it possible I could persuade this person?

01:23:59.140 And obviously if it's, if it's a dynamic situation and I got to take care of business,

01:24:03.820 then I have ask, tell, make always in my pocket, right?

01:24:06.020 I got a big tool belt, but it's persuasion, advice, warning, something else I can put in

01:24:11.000 my belt.

01:24:11.340 Can I potentially persuade this person?

01:24:13.000 Because time is often on the police officer side.

01:24:15.720 Persuasion.

01:24:16.100 Can I give him some advice?

01:24:16.820 Listen to me, sir.

01:24:18.300 Listen, if you don't, the other officers are going to come here and they're going to make

01:24:21.360 it more difficult.

01:24:21.840 Don't you see that I'm working with you and we can work together and get this thing done.

01:24:25.520 We can do this together.

01:24:27.900 Warning, if the other officers come and I step back, then they're going to be a lot

01:24:32.560 different than I am.

01:24:33.540 This is just another tool that the police can put in their belt so that we don't have

01:24:37.040 to get into the situation.

01:24:38.360 I bet you if Derek was to be able to go back and think back, I bet you he would have done

01:24:41.840 things differently, in my opinion.

01:24:44.500 Yeah, I'm sure you kind of, what, what did he say?

01:24:47.360 Did he, what was his testimony?

01:24:49.640 What were the key points from his testimony from Derek Chauvin's?

01:24:52.720 Did he have, did he take the stand?

01:24:54.820 He decided not to testify in his own defense, exercising his Fifth Amendment right.

01:24:58.880 Hmm.

01:24:59.700 Wonder why they made that choice.

01:25:01.440 Because you would think, oh, I don't know.

01:25:05.260 But he's got the federal case, the federal case, and he's got the state stuff.

01:25:08.620 And he, I think he's run, has another case running concurrently for tax evasion as well.

01:25:13.640 So he had a whole bunch of different things going on.

01:25:15.100 And I'm not saying that he was guilty of any of all those things.

01:25:17.560 No, I think you're just looking at what happened.

01:25:19.060 But it is fascinating how that turned into a racial thing, though, as well.

01:25:22.940 And I say that all the time.

01:25:24.740 Yeah.

01:25:25.720 Which case had that, can we definitely say that it was race?

01:25:29.380 Which one?

01:25:30.080 It's very difficult to find that case.

01:25:32.560 And just because if you call, well, what percentage of officers, I thought this, I thought that,

01:25:38.200 well, each police department should have five different races at it, and you call, and then

01:25:42.680 that you get that race to come, right?

01:25:44.720 Then that way, nobody could ever say that again.

01:25:46.800 Yeah, but you know.

01:25:47.640 I mean, that would be absolutely ridiculous.

01:25:49.140 But it's like, is that what we should, is that, you know.

01:25:52.320 I think it's that because, I don't agree with that model, because I think that that separates

01:25:56.000 us more and more.

01:25:56.740 But you go to any bar in downtown Nashville, and you're going to find people of all different

01:26:00.900 races sitting around.

01:26:01.900 And you might engage with a person.

01:26:03.300 It takes us back away from the content of one's character.

01:26:06.320 I don't, you know, what people call racism, I think that it's more biased.

01:26:10.740 Because.

01:26:11.240 I agree.

01:26:11.940 It's much more biased than it is racism.

01:26:14.420 I'll give you an example.

01:26:17.000 I was in the Vegas airport.

01:26:19.660 This guy's walking in front of me.

01:26:21.140 His pants are, like, sagging down.

01:26:23.860 And you could see his underwear.

01:26:25.480 What was really interesting was, it was like this really interesting floral print, and his

01:26:29.160 socks matched his underwear.

01:26:30.560 And I had a beer or two, so I was messing with the guy.

01:26:33.020 I was walking by.

01:26:33.400 I said, oh, man.

01:26:34.060 I said, dang, underwear, nice.

01:26:35.560 They look good with it.

01:26:36.540 And he turned around, and he was like, who are you talking to?

01:26:39.020 Like, I mean, going off.

01:26:40.860 And then a TSA agent comes up and is like, what's the matter?

01:26:44.540 And he said, hey, he's talking about my, and I was, this is me in civilian clothes.

01:26:47.340 He said, he's talking about my underwear.

01:26:49.560 And the agent, the TSA agent says, well, they do match your socks.

01:26:54.900 And the guy gets pissed off and walks away.

01:26:56.940 Now, you can picture this situation happening, right?

01:26:59.740 Now, when you picture the situation happening, did you think it was a black guy?

01:27:06.520 I don't know.

01:27:08.020 At first, when you said pants sagging, I did.

01:27:10.240 There you go.

01:27:10.760 But then when you said matching with the, and black people like to match, so I thought

01:27:16.680 that as well.

01:27:17.680 Floral print, then I started to think maybe it was like a white guy from maybe Milwaukee

01:27:22.580 or something, or Toledo or something, trying to celebrate.

01:27:24.760 But the point in the story, and it was a black dude, but the point in the story is that we

01:27:30.660 have biases to behavior.

01:27:32.920 It wasn't because of the person's skin color.

01:27:35.380 And then what happens is, if we create a squad of police that says, just because you're black,

01:27:39.760 that means you're going to respond to black people.

01:27:41.480 What if that doesn't necessarily, what if you don't?

01:27:43.920 Oh, I don't think it'll work.

01:27:45.100 I'm just trying to think, how do you get the racial issues out of it?

01:27:48.700 Because yeah, at a certain point, you do get to like, I don't know.

01:27:52.740 I don't see as much racism, like I grew up in the South, you know, when you'd hear some

01:27:57.740 people's dads, they would just sit there and just say the N word and call people f***s

01:28:04.460 or whatever.

01:28:05.260 And just like, they would say a lot of racist jokes.

01:28:08.780 That was it.

01:28:09.320 You know, that was a lot of what you'd hear.

01:28:10.840 But I don't even hear that shit anymore, dude.

01:28:13.360 Like, I'm not saying it doesn't exist.

01:28:14.700 It's because people are scared to say it.

01:28:16.460 It's because they're scared they're going to even.

01:28:17.580 It could be true, but I think people, I think more people now, I don't think that there's

01:28:22.340 more racism than there used to be.

01:28:24.260 I think sometimes there is a fear of some black cultures in areas because I think people probably

01:28:29.700 want to be safe and they fear that some of those areas don't have a lot of safety, but

01:28:34.520 I don't know that that's true.

01:28:36.080 And I also don't know, um, it kind of, that, that kind of bums me out sometimes because

01:28:42.780 it's like, well, I would like to go support probably more like black owned businesses and

01:28:48.060 see them in certain areas probably.

01:28:50.340 But I think there's sometimes where I'm just probably afraid.

01:28:53.940 It's like, I don't want to risk my safety today to do that.

01:28:57.480 In a predominantly black neighborhood.

01:28:59.400 Right.

01:28:59.900 Yeah.

01:29:00.060 And that may sound racist saying that.

01:29:02.020 That doesn't sound right.

01:29:02.780 Well, I don't know why you, why would that sound racist?

01:29:04.840 Yeah.

01:29:05.060 Why would that sound racist?

01:29:06.260 Okay.

01:29:06.680 Name me three major cities.

01:29:08.260 We think there's a lot of crime.

01:29:09.820 Three, three major cities.

01:29:10.660 Oh yeah.

01:29:11.480 Memphis.

01:29:12.240 Okay.

01:29:12.920 Um, New Orleans, probably Los Angeles.

01:29:16.920 Okay.

01:29:17.620 Um, so cities have more crime.

01:29:19.280 Yes.

01:29:19.540 They do have more crime.

01:29:20.660 Okay.

01:29:21.060 How about what about Chicago, Chicago, Chicago.

01:29:24.060 Now, when you think about that crime, do you think of it as black crime?

01:29:27.420 I think maybe in some areas.

01:29:29.340 So you probably do.

01:29:30.240 Cause you hear a lot about Chicago black crime.

01:29:32.220 You hear that term a lot.

01:29:33.360 I'll show you something.

01:29:34.000 Can you pull up, um, Hey, jackass.com?

01:29:38.340 Have you heard of this?

01:29:40.200 Hey, jackass.com.

01:29:41.920 This is a guy who tracks every single shooting that occurs in Chicago by the minute where it

01:29:47.320 occurs by race and time.

01:29:49.520 So I was going to do it.

01:29:51.440 I was going to, he's like the Santa of bullets.

01:29:54.460 How does he get it all done?

01:29:56.800 Santa of both.

01:29:57.600 Or like, how's he doing it all in one night?

01:29:59.240 Before you look, before you look, before you look, how many people do you think have

01:30:03.060 been shot?

01:30:04.640 Just shot.

01:30:05.860 Shot in Chicago.

01:30:06.580 I'm going to get this right.

01:30:08.220 I bet.

01:30:08.860 I would say, uh, 41 people.

01:30:14.800 41 people shot in Chicago until March, right?

01:30:17.040 Deceased or just shot?

01:30:17.840 Just shot.

01:30:18.360 Oh, just shot.

01:30:19.160 I would say 71.

01:30:20.520 71.

01:30:21.160 All right.

01:30:21.460 Take a look.

01:30:22.860 This is cool.

01:30:23.640 Oh, total shot.

01:30:25.580 87.

01:30:26.440 So for, for year total, look at year total.

01:30:29.560 Year to date, 80, 330 total shots.

01:30:32.280 So that means 330 people have been shot and we're not even, how does, how does a mayor

01:30:36.920 have a job if that many people get shot?

01:30:38.940 Now look at it by race.

01:30:42.120 75% black, 18.8% Hispanic, 6.4% white or other.

01:30:47.700 So it's, so there's more shooting between with blacks and Hispanics than whites or of

01:30:53.700 the three black leads, 75%.

01:30:56.200 And this is only Chicago.

01:30:58.160 But do you, so why do you think this is right?

01:31:00.480 Cause you've seen, you've been on the streets.

01:31:02.080 I mean, this was Las Vegas, which probably has more of a Latino population as well, huh?

01:31:06.000 It does.

01:31:06.820 Why do you think this is?

01:31:08.140 Is it just a financial thing?

01:31:11.460 Is it a culture thing?

01:31:14.000 Is it, um, cause you start to think that so like that we are thinking about crime is

01:31:20.980 it starts to become part of a culture.

01:31:23.440 So you're saying a lot of very, very interesting things and I'll speak to the first one first.

01:31:27.860 Why do I think it is?

01:31:28.940 I think it's because, um, okay, let me speak to the specific question.

01:31:34.660 Why is it that it happens in black culture?

01:31:37.560 Yeah.

01:31:37.940 I mean, I think about it's like, yeah, it's start, well, it starts to seem like, well,

01:31:40.600 that's become part of the culture.

01:31:42.140 And so it's just too risk.

01:31:45.080 It's like, I want to.

01:31:46.640 Okay.

01:31:47.080 It's, I think it's part of the subculture.

01:31:49.440 Oh, that's a better term.

01:31:50.440 I think it's part of the subculture.

01:31:51.480 Yeah.

01:31:51.580 That's what I mean.

01:31:52.100 That's a better term.

01:31:52.940 Yeah.

01:31:53.120 I don't know the words.

01:31:54.120 It's part of a subculture.

01:31:55.400 It's part of the subculture.

01:31:56.500 And so I'll tell you why it happens is because not enough people call it out.

01:32:00.920 It's okay for rappers to come and be in places and celebrated when rap culture has become so openly violent, not only towards each other in gangs, for gang versus gang, but towards women.

01:32:23.760 And that is not called out.

01:32:25.640 That's where people who have a voice need to stand up and say, no, young man, that's not appropriate.

01:32:31.780 That doesn't work.

01:32:33.160 When I spoke to you in the beginning, I said, I cannot overstate the importance of my father being in my life.

01:32:37.260 But for that fact, I was able to reach the degree of just basic, you know, and I'm not going to say success.

01:32:43.720 I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm content with what I have, but, but for me, having both of my parents and my life for such a significant time, a lot of these kids don't, a lot of them do not.

01:32:52.720 And the fact that that's not called out and that, you know, and I don't want to turn this into a political conversation, but I have very strong feelings about the fact that there's so many people in one, in a certain group that don't say that is not acceptable behavior.

01:33:10.680 We're not going to condone that.

01:33:12.740 You must act and behave differently.

01:33:15.180 Otherwise we can't hang here.

01:33:17.260 Yeah.

01:33:17.400 And until that happens, that's going to just be a continuous cycle.

01:33:21.160 Yeah.

01:33:21.540 The media, I mean, you can't, you couldn't say that there's a black crime, you know, it's like the media is very, there is a black crime crime problem.

01:33:27.940 There is, but you can't, yeah.

01:33:29.540 The media seems like they never would say that, you know, in the media is kind of what people absorb, you know?

01:33:34.920 But I think now you're able to have people who have come out of black culture and are, I think there's, I think there are good leaders out there who are saying it.

01:33:42.060 You know, I think that hopefully it's going to change too, you know, because the shitty part is it's like, yeah, I had a friend and, uh,

01:33:51.140 she had the, she had like a hat store and she wanted me to come by.

01:33:55.580 And I was like, I, it's just, that's too, I don't want to be in that area.

01:34:00.340 I don't want to be in there.

01:34:01.660 Don't blame you.

01:34:01.980 But to be like, I don't want to shot, you know, it just kind of sucks, you know, like shit like that kind of sucks.

01:34:06.320 Self-preservation is a thing.

01:34:07.800 Right.

01:34:07.960 That's the first thing.

01:34:08.560 And it's the best thing.

01:34:09.400 It's like, I'm not going to fucking risk my life to get a fucking fitted, you know?

01:34:12.520 Yeah.

01:34:12.800 But at the same time, it would be nice to, you know, it's like, and that's not everywhere.

01:34:16.820 And that's, but it's like, yeah, that kind of shit sucks, dude.

01:34:19.620 You wish that shit would go away because it fucking sucks.

01:34:22.660 And it makes cities bad, man.

01:34:24.600 Like, um, New Orleans has a lot of that murder over there, a lot of black on black murder.

01:34:29.100 And it makes you not want to be around certain, like, it makes you just not be able to relax and enjoy yourself.

01:34:35.720 We're at 300 and some people have been shot and there's a mayor who still has a job.

01:34:39.780 So being an officer and, um, being a sergeant, what, what effect can the mayor really have on the crime in an area?

01:34:46.820 So the mayor, so we didn't, we didn't have a unique situation in Las Vegas where we didn't report to the mayor.

01:34:52.000 Our sheriff was, was an elected official.

01:34:54.720 So the police in Las Vegas didn't have to worry about politics with the mayor.

01:34:59.060 The sheriff was almost every single time a police officer before.

01:35:03.840 And in fact, the former sheriff who was the governor now was one of my sergeants.

01:35:09.160 He understood policing.

01:35:10.800 So the top ranking law enforcement person understood policing.

01:35:14.500 And I think that that became in a very effective model where you don't have to report to a mayor.

01:35:18.480 That mayor, uh, is, is, is dealing with politics and the police chief has to report to that mayor.

01:35:24.140 So how do we affect this situation to happen?

01:35:27.760 It's not the police that are going to fix.

01:35:29.200 I mean, in immediate, they can put a bandaid on it and put cops on dots and corners and do stuff like that.

01:35:33.660 But we have to say, fathers have to be in households.

01:35:38.200 They have to raise their kids.

01:35:39.420 I can tell you in the beginning, when we started speaking, I said, if I was to one of the other things I said that affected me is the times that I didn't spend with my children when I could have, where I was either working or being selfish and doing something on my own, whatever.

01:35:50.000 Fathers have to be involved in those lives.

01:35:52.520 Otherwise, those young men are going to continue to do the same exact thing in New Orleans, in Memphis, in Chicago.

01:35:58.700 Everyone else says, we should be screaming at the top of our lungs when we see that 300 something people were shot in one city.

01:36:05.680 And that's okay.

01:36:07.020 How is that okay?

01:36:08.480 It's not.

01:36:09.060 But then you'll see people protesting about this or protesting about that and claim to really care about humanity.

01:36:15.640 But before we're done with this podcast, there is going to be at least two or three and maybe 10 people that are going to shot across all these different cities.

01:36:25.220 But you know what?

01:36:25.980 We don't.

01:36:26.860 You know, there's a saying that says all men are hypocrites.

01:36:30.280 Most deny it.

01:36:31.220 I myself admit it.

01:36:32.900 And I do.

01:36:33.520 I admit I'm a hypocrite.

01:36:34.440 My life is good, Theo.

01:36:35.660 If I really, really cared.

01:36:37.060 If I really, really cared.

01:36:38.640 And this is an honest admission.

01:36:40.940 Then maybe I would, as a retiree with all the time I have, maybe find one of these Chicago kids and spend time with them and do something.

01:36:46.740 And maybe at some point in my life I will.

01:36:48.780 But I think that we have to call out our own hypocrisy in life and say that we as Americans love our lives the way they are.

01:36:54.980 These people protesting all these places.

01:36:56.800 They're getting a latte at Starbucks right afterwards.

01:36:59.600 Getting on TikTok and sending out videos and claiming that they're revolutionaries.

01:37:03.620 They're not revolutionaries.

01:37:04.820 There are no real revolutionaries right now.

01:37:06.580 And thanks for sharing, dude.

01:37:08.740 I know that, you know, I appreciate you sharing.

01:37:11.480 Forgive me for preaching, man.

01:37:13.180 No, I don't know if we sound preachy.

01:37:14.600 You know, I think it's okay.

01:37:16.480 You know, like two of my black friends got killed in drive-by shootings in New Orleans like in the past eight years.

01:37:22.540 And they didn't catch the guys that did it.

01:37:27.360 Actually, one of the guys that did, one of them they did catch the guy that did it.

01:37:30.760 But just like it was like just bullshit in the city, just fucking shooting, you know.

01:37:35.900 And it starts to get sad.

01:37:37.560 It starts to get like, I don't know.

01:37:40.520 Like people ask me now, what should I do when I'm in New Orleans?

01:37:42.700 And, you know, I say, you know, these are places to go, but don't go in these areas.

01:37:47.000 You know, it kind of fucking sucks.

01:37:48.180 It's like, but what I was thinking was, we had a guy named Richard Reeves on.

01:37:52.400 And he said, well, one of the problems these days is there's not a lot of young male role models.

01:37:57.600 Yes.

01:37:57.940 There's not a lot of young male role models.

01:37:59.520 And he said a lot of men used to be teachers.

01:38:03.240 I don't have a lot of male teachers anymore.

01:38:05.300 He said a lot of men were Boy Scout and Cub Scout leaders, troop leaders.

01:38:11.560 There was more, I guess, more young men used to be involved in the church, right?

01:38:16.260 So you had, and obviously some of this shit got haywire and some of those people got molested or whatever.

01:38:20.900 But outside of that, there's just not a lot of male role models.

01:38:25.740 And so it's like, how do we start to become male role models in our community, right?

01:38:29.120 Did you mean just male role models or did you mean black male role models?

01:38:33.140 I just meant male, I think male role models.

01:38:35.140 His work is just looking at, it's the founding president of the American Institute for Boys and Men.

01:38:42.760 He's the author of several books, including Boys and Men, Why the Modern Male is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do About It.

01:38:48.560 His was just saying that, yeah, it used to be like, so to become, if you have spare time, to become a baseball coach, to do the Big Brother program,

01:38:55.200 if you can commit the time to it, like, because it takes, like, a lot of real time to do those things.

01:39:00.640 And it really kind of just put me on notice, like, yeah, how do I create something that's, or just give back to, like, you know, since I don't have any children yet,

01:39:09.060 how do you be a part of that, you know?

01:39:11.500 Because I think some of our men, too, this is something that I believe is happening, is our men are still being really young.

01:39:17.960 It's like we don't have to grow up.

01:39:19.580 It's true.

01:39:20.500 It's very true.

01:39:21.280 And look, I'm fucking, I'm still trying to not be grown up, but I got to fucking grow up, dude, because they're coming after me or whatever, you know?

01:39:28.720 Who's coming after you?

01:39:29.140 Nobody is, but my mom's like, what are we doing, you know?

01:39:31.380 Like, are we getting, are you going to get a family or what's going to go on?

01:39:33.500 Do you want a family?

01:39:34.380 I think so, dude, because I think I would miss out on it, you know?

01:39:37.480 I'd like to have a son, be a good dad, make my wife happy or whatever until she gets fucking all pissed off.

01:39:43.800 What's stopping you?

01:39:44.560 Huh?

01:39:44.880 What's stopping you?

01:39:45.520 Dude, I haven't even met my wife yet, first of all, and I'm going to be fucking, I got some shit to tell her when I do meet her.

01:39:50.920 I'll tell you that.

01:39:51.420 Do you pray for her?

01:39:52.020 Huh?

01:39:52.460 Yeah, I do pray about it.

01:39:53.860 Do you pray for her specifically?

01:39:55.660 No, I haven't prayed for her specifically, but I do pray.

01:39:57.980 It's a good point.

01:39:58.900 I guess I'm-

01:39:59.360 She's alive?

01:40:00.540 So if she's alive, maybe a good prayer would be, you know what?

01:40:03.940 Because just think she's doing something right this second.

01:40:06.980 Just think if you started to fervently pray for that specific person, you'd be building her before she even gets to you, bro.

01:40:13.580 Wow.

01:40:13.940 Yeah, it's like creating when you get to make your own person on NBA 2K or whatever.

01:40:19.640 You know what I'm talking about?

01:40:20.460 The spiritual side, though.

01:40:21.340 Yeah, totally.

01:40:22.100 Yeah, yeah.

01:40:22.520 Yeah, I got you.

01:40:23.460 Yeah, I got you.

01:40:23.980 But yeah, I made a list of things I would like, but then it's like I don't want to get too locked in, but that's a good call, man.

01:40:29.840 Yeah.

01:40:30.060 And just pray that God, you know, I have been praying that God gives me the, just the ability to lean more into becoming who I need to be to be in that situation, you know?

01:40:41.460 May I ask you a semi-personal question?

01:40:42.940 Yeah.

01:40:43.180 Is the reason why, maybe holding you back a little bit, the fact that you still like dating multiple women or like being, you don't want anyone to lock down, you kind of really want to experience more?

01:40:53.820 Well, I think, you know, I've thought about that.

01:40:56.520 I like, no, I don't know.

01:40:59.140 It's been hard with work.

01:41:00.460 It's like work is my biggest relationship.

01:41:04.180 I mean, when I have a free moment, I'm working.

01:41:06.220 I just, I like it, you know, where I'm planning or I'm thinking what could I do and not even just work, but like how could I start to do like work that is more given back to the community?

01:41:16.660 Like, you know, but you start to think of like, okay, well, what, like, what can I create now that could really be part of something cool or help people?

01:41:24.900 And I think we all think like that, but, but yeah, so just any facet of like, what can I create while I'm still have some creativity in me, you know?

01:41:32.860 And then as far as dating, like I try to put myself out there, you know, I'm not on the apps, but I'll meet girls, go on dates.

01:41:41.020 You know, I'm pretty brave to be like, oh, let's meet up for a coffee or let's grab a dinner or something like that.

01:41:44.860 I feel like I'm kind of tired of running around, to be honest.

01:41:48.980 I think it's kind of leaves out of your system a little bit.

01:41:51.740 It does.

01:41:52.340 Yeah.

01:41:53.340 So that's kind of where I feel like I'm at.

01:41:55.240 Cool.

01:41:55.700 And then it's like you get into an age range where you're like, okay, well, you know, it's kind of tough.

01:42:02.680 Sometimes some people have children, but then you guys, but once you realize that, you're like, okay, well, I never thought about it if I would date somebody with children, you know?

01:42:08.320 So then you start to think about that and learn different little things and stuff.

01:42:12.120 So with sleeping in the same bed with a person, does that bother you?

01:42:15.760 Yeah, that bothers me.

01:42:16.740 A lot of times I don't like it that much, but.

01:42:19.160 So maybe that's something that you could find in common with a person and maybe your intimacy comes together to a certain space and you still have enough space to be apart from each other.

01:42:30.320 And if they have, if on the, at the jump, if they're cool with that, maybe that's something that you can start off from that point.

01:42:36.280 Because some people don't like to sleep together.

01:42:37.700 You heard of a sleep divorce?

01:42:39.140 Uh-uh.

01:42:39.780 You never heard of sleep divorce?

01:42:40.740 No, but I would love if my wife had her own room.

01:42:42.880 Yeah.

01:42:43.060 Sleep divorce is where people don't sleep in the same bed, but they maintain an intimate relationship.

01:42:48.420 I love it.

01:42:48.700 And then their relationships actually flourish.

01:42:51.340 And I don't like to call it sleep divorce.

01:42:52.580 I like to call it like solitary intimacy, like where you're cool being by yourself and you're cool being by yourself when we come together, whenever.

01:42:58.640 Or just some stuff to throw out.

01:42:59.840 No, I think it's neat.

01:43:00.900 I think there's stuff like that.

01:43:01.980 Relationships are kind of evolving and stuff too, I think.

01:43:04.540 People are figuring out kind of what works for them.

01:43:06.920 I think sometimes I've been afraid to maybe even say what I feel like.

01:43:09.560 Yeah, if I would be like, hey, I'd love it if my, if I could have a separate bedroom than my wife, you know?

01:43:15.240 And if we wanted, you know, like then we could have our own rooms.

01:43:18.820 I think that that's the most awesome thing possible.

01:43:21.340 And that would be fine.

01:43:22.260 Yeah.

01:43:22.620 So, but I think for years you get caught in this idea like, oh, that's going to be crazy to say to somebody, you know?

01:43:28.320 But then I think as time goes on, you're like, oh, nothing's really that crazy.

01:43:32.600 You just have to say it and see if somebody else is okay with it, you know?

01:43:36.340 You've talked a lot about like policing and like how to police.

01:43:39.820 That seems like to be something that you care about.

01:43:41.820 Yes.

01:43:42.000 Has policing changed a lot over the years, do you feel like?

01:43:44.520 Yes.

01:43:46.300 Because of, you know, technology and the advent of cameras and everyone, you know, when I came on the police department, people defaulted to the police being right.

01:43:55.780 Now people default a lot of times to the police having questions about the police behavior.

01:44:00.260 And it's fair because a lot of things have occurred that would make people question that.

01:44:04.800 So it's changed in the sense that people always have the cameras out.

01:44:07.460 Now, obviously, police now all have body cams.

01:44:10.560 So things are documented and memorialized in a digital format that we didn't necessarily have before.

01:44:15.840 And I think it's essential when a person can take away a person's freedom or take away a person's life that it's documented.

01:44:23.420 I got a ticket.

01:44:24.560 You know, I got a ticket.

01:44:26.040 First ticket in my life.

01:44:27.020 I got it in July.

01:44:30.000 Oh, really?

01:44:30.400 It was the trippiest story.

01:44:32.120 And it made me realize what people have to go through.

01:44:35.760 And so check this out.

01:44:37.080 So in Florida, I have a house in Florida.

01:44:39.880 And I was riding my e-bike on the beach just pedaling.

01:44:43.780 There was a plastic cup.

01:44:45.720 I pick up the plastic cup and I ride my e-bike over to throw it away.

01:44:49.180 And I turn around and I use my throttle to go back.

01:44:52.140 All of a sudden, this buggy with lights and siren comes screeching up on me on the beach.

01:44:56.720 And this cop jumps out.

01:44:58.740 First thing he says to me is, I need you to get off the bike and I need to see your license.

01:45:05.180 Those are his words as soon as he stops me.

01:45:07.520 And I don't know if he was intimidated by me or what.

01:45:09.640 And I was like, oh, you're not going to get any problems out of me?

01:45:11.500 I said, listen, I said, I'm a retired cop.

01:45:13.440 I'm cool.

01:45:13.900 I'm not going to do anything to you.

01:45:16.380 Oh, there you guys are right there.

01:45:18.500 That's the cop.

01:45:19.960 Is that Sean Kingston?

01:45:23.360 He does look like Sean.

01:45:24.380 An older version of Sean Kingston.

01:45:25.600 He was sweating.

01:45:27.660 I mean, he looked like, I just can't even explain how stressed out he was over me riding my electric bike on the beach.

01:45:38.820 And he wrote me a ticket.

01:45:41.120 And so I was like, you know what?

01:45:42.360 I'm going to ride this whole thing out because I want to see what it feels like from the side of, because I gave out a lot of tickets.

01:45:47.760 I want to see what I went to court and everything.

01:45:50.400 I had to go before a judge.

01:45:51.520 There were people in there for like felonies and everything else.

01:45:54.080 And I went through the whole process and paid my ticket.

01:45:57.960 And it was disappointing to me that at this day and age that there are still police that don't, that the first thing they say to you out of their mouth is, get off the bike.

01:46:07.840 I need to see your license.

01:46:09.380 It goes back to what I was saying to you before about when I just, you know, told you how I interact.

01:46:14.960 I prefer a person to interact.

01:46:16.660 Why not do that?

01:46:17.700 Well, I think, but now in some instances, things are manic and the situation has escalated already, right?

01:46:23.200 Like sometimes it's already, things are insane.

01:46:25.600 Like if a guy is shooting or something.

01:46:27.380 Sure.

01:46:27.960 I mean, you're going to be, yeah.

01:46:28.920 But you're saying just walking up person to person.

01:46:31.160 What is the daily interaction like?

01:46:33.500 Every single interaction from the police should be something that should be friendly and almost as I'm the servant of, because we are, we're supposed to be serving.

01:46:42.780 Even if a person makes a mistake, come on, bro.

01:46:44.740 Oh, I look, I love that idea.

01:46:47.100 I love the idea that that's, what keeps it, what keeps that from happening then?

01:46:52.140 Because then you would almost want to be able to check each day.

01:46:55.020 Okay.

01:46:55.340 How is this officer doing today?

01:46:58.140 Are they going to be able to manage to be out there in this field?

01:47:02.700 Or do, are they getting paid enough to be able to take care of themselves to get massages or ice baths?

01:47:09.900 Things that people need though, that to de-stress them.

01:47:12.260 Dude, I go get a massage.

01:47:13.460 It'll change the way I talk to my mother on the phone.

01:47:17.320 And it's like, I love that concept, you know, but it's like, well, yeah, it seems like we would be able to take care of these people more who are really the sieves of our society that are like drain, you know, they're the capture.

01:47:30.420 They're the catch at the drain, you know, I like that analogy.

01:47:33.380 You know, to me, I think it would actually make policing less stressful if the police interaction from the police side is that entree into being so kind and polite from the very beginning of the stop.

01:47:44.900 Because you're not going to get into that many arguments with people because most people are like, daggone it.

01:47:48.280 I've written tickets to people that are like, thank you.

01:47:50.500 You know, because, and I'm not saying that I was great at doing, there were a lot of cops who know how to talk and act that way.

01:47:55.720 And it's usually when you get older, it's just that there's, if you look, if, you know, if everything looks like a nail, if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail or whatever.

01:48:02.820 If the hammer is your only tool, then everything looks like a nail.

01:48:05.280 And that's the only way that you deal with things is hammering it in, as opposed to trying other methods.

01:48:10.780 Make that tool belt bigger.

01:48:13.480 Yeah.

01:48:13.900 I mean, I've learned that in my own life, man.

01:48:15.560 I've really showed up with a hammer a lot of times.

01:48:17.480 I'm trying to have less of it.

01:48:19.000 And it's been getting better, oddly.

01:48:21.300 I just find little moments where I'm like, I've tried that so many times, waiting or waiting, waiting for somebody to act a certain way towards me instead of just acting that way.

01:48:31.900 Yes.

01:48:32.820 Fuck, that's a fucking, I've spent a lot of my life waiting.

01:48:36.620 Oh, I'm, I'm just, I'm just going to wait for you to act this way towards me because I deserve that if that's the way it's supposed to be or something.

01:48:43.660 And, and not in like a way of like, um, praise or anything like that, but just even something simple, like a relationship, work relationship, or even with, with family.

01:48:52.500 I'm going to wait, you know, instead of like, I'm going to wait for you to hold my hand instead of me just holding your hand type shit, you know?

01:48:59.700 That, and that's deep, man.

01:49:01.040 You know, the way that you adjust, evolve and treat people.

01:49:04.540 And I learned this very interesting story when I first heard on the police talk and it's race incident here.

01:49:10.660 I was coming on Graveyard, this is downtown, there's a foot pursuit, swing shift, gets the guy in custody.

01:49:17.680 The sergeant, I was an officer at the time, the sergeant calls me over and asks me to transport the guy.

01:49:21.740 I get there and the guy's leaking.

01:49:24.160 And he, a black dude, he's pissed.

01:49:25.920 And two officers that took him into custody, white.

01:49:27.640 One of the officers was a guy who was a senior field training officer and he was about to go to SWAT.

01:49:32.060 And I'm this rookie, rookie.

01:49:33.720 I come over and the black dude, his eye is leaking.

01:49:37.040 And they call medical and medical comes while I'm sitting there.

01:49:42.460 The sergeant says, hey, you take him because, you know, he figured he, the guy would feel more comfortable with me because the guy was saying, oh, they, they just roughed me up.

01:49:49.740 So I get the guy.

01:49:52.180 I, so this is the important part.

01:49:55.480 The FTO has his handcuffs on the suspect.

01:49:58.680 What you're supposed to do is conduct a pat down, go through the whole process, put your handcuffs on the person and then transfer in the car.

01:50:06.360 I didn't want to offend the FTO by making it seem like I didn't trust his pat down.

01:50:10.820 So I put my cuffs on the guy.

01:50:12.920 I take the guy and the, and I'm getting ready to put him in my car.

01:50:15.980 And the ambulance lady says, he can't go straight to jail.

01:50:19.480 You got to take him over to UMC, which is the hospital because they got to sew that up.

01:50:24.580 Take him over to UMC.

01:50:27.060 We go there.

01:50:27.880 The doctor says, I got to unhand cuff his hand and cuff him to the gurney.

01:50:31.540 And I'm talking to this dude and I'm just like vibing with him.

01:50:33.960 And like, I just, I felt kind of bad for him.

01:50:36.500 I like, he just was like, you know, you look at a person that just dejected, like their life sucked.

01:50:40.640 And he was being booked for running.

01:50:42.360 You know, they were trying to stop him.

01:50:43.620 He was running.

01:50:44.200 Right.

01:50:44.620 And he's, he's leaking.

01:50:45.660 He's like, just, it was just like his life sucked.

01:50:47.680 So we get down to the hospital.

01:50:49.140 They sew him up.

01:50:50.520 I recuff him, bring him to the, to the jail.

01:50:53.720 CCDC.

01:50:54.000 The detention center, county detention center.

01:50:56.760 I get him inside.

01:50:58.720 Before we, before we get there, the guy said he was John Doe at that point.

01:51:02.640 So if the person doesn't tell us their name, we book them as John Doe.

01:51:05.680 The dude says to me, he goes, you know what, man, you've been cool to me.

01:51:08.160 I'm going to tell you my name.

01:51:09.740 He tells me his name.

01:51:11.180 I put it into the computer.

01:51:14.420 My computer starts going crazy.

01:51:17.700 All this information pops up in his warrant pops up.

01:51:22.080 Dispatcher says, ask me if I'm clear.

01:51:23.620 For the information.

01:51:25.000 He's wanted by the FBI murder by burning.

01:51:27.300 I get him down to, to the jail.

01:51:31.720 Yes, chef.

01:51:32.380 That's crazy.

01:51:33.500 The CO is one of my boys and he goes, screaming.

01:51:37.300 He's like, Chris, what the?

01:51:38.620 After that.

01:51:39.040 He's yelling.

01:51:40.200 He comes back, this big, huge knife.

01:51:42.640 The guy had on him the whole time.

01:51:44.200 Big, big knife.

01:51:45.280 You didn't check him.

01:51:45.840 I didn't check him because I didn't want to offend the FTO.

01:51:49.220 And the dude says to me, as he walks by when they brought him out because he got booked

01:51:53.340 an additional charge.

01:51:54.300 He says, he said, you know, if you weren't kind to me the way that you were, I could have

01:51:59.560 done you in the hospital and I would have done you.

01:52:01.080 So, me being kind and polite to that guy saved my life from that stupid rookie mistake that

01:52:07.420 I made.

01:52:08.260 Yeah.

01:52:08.740 I'm like, yeah.

01:52:10.380 I mean, I, I don't know what it's like.

01:52:12.820 I don't know what it's like.

01:52:13.980 Like, how do you make sure that an officer when they leave out for the day each day is

01:52:17.860 in the best state that they can be in to be these liaisons between right and wrong in

01:52:24.360 the world, you know?

01:52:25.560 And that's what, it's like, how best can we take care of these people?

01:52:28.980 These, you know, I feel like if we can afford to give money to other places, we should give

01:52:33.400 it poured into these people.

01:52:35.220 It should be expensive.

01:52:36.200 It should be a well-paid job.

01:52:37.940 And I'm not saying that it isn't, but it should be, you know, I feel like these are the

01:52:42.420 fucking, a lot of other shit's easy, dude.

01:52:45.400 You should also incentivize officers with more than 10 years to go back to patrol.

01:52:50.860 One of the challenges that happens is you get cops, they want to go through the ranks,

01:52:54.420 they get work, go work in specialized units and then never go back to patrol and then patrol.

01:52:59.380 Oh, so they get disconnected.

01:53:00.380 They get disconnected from patrol and then you have young guys teaching young guys and

01:53:03.220 it's usually the older wisdom that is what helps policing.

01:53:05.780 Cause I remember I was in the knucklehead when I was young.

01:53:07.760 I know I made a lot of mistakes.

01:53:09.320 Oh yeah.

01:53:10.760 Oh God.

01:53:11.540 Yeah, dude.

01:53:12.680 So how do you get it to become a hostage negotiator?

01:53:15.300 Cause that's what you're, so you became.

01:53:17.680 So because, so right.

01:53:18.500 So that's a special specialized unit, specialized training.

01:53:21.860 You can keep your primary responsibility.

01:53:23.840 Cause what happens is you end up being on call and that sucked.

01:53:27.200 Cause you would be in the middle of something and you'd get a call out.

01:53:30.020 And you have to go.

01:53:30.600 And you have to go.

01:53:31.140 Cause there's not many of you.

01:53:32.040 No.

01:53:32.420 And you know, you need a team to assemble.

01:53:34.320 On rare occasions you can call out.

01:53:37.620 So they'll put out an opening and in every department is different, but they'll put out an,

01:53:41.100 you know, there's an opening and then you interview for it.

01:53:45.400 And then you, how well you're doing the interview, you get selected.

01:53:50.340 And I was the young, at the time I was the youngest ever to be selected on the team.

01:53:54.560 And, um, that was a phenomenal experience.

01:53:57.160 And so once you're on the team, you know, you get your, you know, your phones, but then

01:54:01.200 you had pagers too.

01:54:02.180 And, uh, you get your gear, your jacket and everything, and you just start responding

01:54:07.020 to calls, you know, obviously, obviously after training, you start responding to call

01:54:09.760 outs.

01:54:10.760 And, um, it's, if anything on the department weighs on you, it's talking to a person for

01:54:17.700 a significant amount of time or listening to a person talk to for a significant amount

01:54:21.180 of time, being part of the team.

01:54:22.640 And then the person does themselves because hostage negotiation isn't really a good term

01:54:26.660 for it.

01:54:26.980 It's more of a crisis negotiator because most of the time that we do it, it would be from

01:54:31.100 a person in crisis, a person that wants to four or five, as we said earlier, that

01:54:34.840 who's considering unaliving themselves.

01:54:36.760 Yeah.

01:54:37.020 Yeah.

01:54:37.240 Take me through a scenario like that.

01:54:38.980 Okay.

01:54:39.440 So an actual situation or, okay.

01:54:42.460 So, um, this is, uh, this one is, was deep and I wasn't the primary on this one.

01:54:49.620 And this is a story that resonates and they even tell us in the class now, uh, a guy who

01:54:53.560 just life was horrific.

01:54:54.960 He had a terminal illness.

01:54:57.240 He had, uh, and I wasn't really, when I was younger, I didn't realize how he was

01:55:01.100 how many people have back issues and their back pain is just suffering and they don't

01:55:05.160 want to live anymore.

01:55:06.180 And so I think what he had was cancer.

01:55:08.020 He had a back issue that was just causing him severe, severe pain.

01:55:11.340 And his wife left him because it was a whole bunch of issues.

01:55:14.160 And he had financial issues for all these things that he was going through.

01:55:16.520 So what happens is you assemble a team.

01:55:18.220 There's a primary.

01:55:19.760 There's a secondary.

01:55:20.720 The primary is a person that talks to the person and they're on the phone.

01:55:23.500 Their sole focus focus is to talk to the person.

01:55:26.240 Talk to the person that's in crisis.

01:55:27.460 That's in crisis.

01:55:28.000 The secondary is the person that is monitoring the primary and getting information from the

01:55:35.680 rest of the team.

01:55:36.680 And the team can vary, but two positions that are really important is the intel liaison,

01:55:42.000 which is the person that tells the background of the person.

01:55:44.120 The person's this age.

01:55:45.500 They, they were married this amount of time, all the intel that you can possibly get on the

01:55:49.640 person.

01:55:50.020 Right.

01:55:50.120 Okay.

01:55:50.320 Then you have, um, the tactical liaison person because you have a SWAT team that's assembled

01:55:56.020 as well, because you may have to potentially breach or go inside of the residence.

01:56:00.000 So tactically you have to know, has this place been evacuated?

01:56:03.300 Have you, um, is it, does it, are the weapons inside?

01:56:06.980 Has this person done this before?

01:56:08.420 So the tack and the intel person feed this information to the secondary, the secondary can

01:56:13.460 write notes and feed it.

01:56:14.840 Then you have a scribe who scribes all this information.

01:56:16.760 Okay.

01:56:17.280 So the case that I was talking to you about was this saint was this person who had gone

01:56:21.020 through this thing.

01:56:21.580 He was going through this thing and it was a newer negotiator that was on as the primary.

01:56:27.940 And after all this time of talking, this guy and against knowing, the guy says, I know

01:56:36.420 exactly what you're doing and you really suck at it.

01:56:39.180 And then shot himself in the head.

01:56:42.740 He said, you really suck at it.

01:56:44.440 That was the last thing that he said.

01:56:47.300 It would kind of suck though.

01:56:48.960 If that you're considering unalive in yourself, you get on with the negotiator and he's just

01:56:54.080 horrible at it.

01:56:55.000 You're like, Oh God.

01:56:56.820 Like, yeah, dude, that's crazy.

01:57:01.240 That's a mic drop, bro.

01:57:02.460 Yeah, it is.

01:57:03.200 And that's, that person had to live with that.

01:57:05.300 You know, that they're, that's their, their record on the department is that they, they,

01:57:08.960 Were they really good at it though?

01:57:10.420 And the person just didn't know it.

01:57:11.540 And that, because anybody could say that, that could be an asshole move.

01:57:14.580 It can be.

01:57:15.260 And part of it was that because I mean, how is it and what is good, right?

01:57:18.760 How is it and what is good?

01:57:20.060 Because I mean, I actually brought a scenario that I was going to work through with you if

01:57:25.560 you wanted to try to be a negotiating.

01:57:27.720 And so, so basically this is pretty cool, man.

01:57:30.480 Cause this is, this is a, this is a, I put this together, uh, which is a composite of a

01:57:35.620 few different negotiator things.

01:57:37.220 And I'm going to be, uh, I'm going to tell you, you're going to be the primary.

01:57:40.580 Okay.

01:57:41.340 And, uh, so here's the situation.

01:57:43.420 Um, you, I can read it or you can read it on what the situation is.

01:57:46.200 And, um, actually I'll read it to you.

01:57:47.940 Like as if you just showed up at the scene that you just rolled up.

01:57:50.120 All right.

01:57:50.280 Okay, great.

01:57:51.000 All right.

01:57:52.380 Uh, Theo, you're going to be the primary in this one.

01:57:54.540 Okay.

01:57:54.880 You got it.

01:57:55.780 The subject's name is Michael Brady.

01:57:58.100 He goes by Mike.

01:57:59.660 The background Intel we have is he's a middle school biology teacher for the last 14 years.

01:58:04.100 He's a youth pastor at a local Christian church for the last seven years.

01:58:08.280 He's 47 years old and he's a white male.

01:58:10.860 He's been married for 18 years.

01:58:13.320 His wife's name is Carol Brady.

01:58:16.280 She's 46 years old.

01:58:18.260 They have one son.

01:58:19.720 His name is Bobby Brady.

01:58:21.540 He's nine years old today.

01:58:24.320 Michael was put on administrative leave for school.

01:58:26.620 When sexual assault detectives came to the school on an anonymous tip,

01:58:30.000 he allegedly impregnated a 14 year old student.

01:58:33.700 Her name is Pamela Phillips.

01:58:36.980 Mike Brady is currently barricaded inside the residence.

01:58:40.720 We got the call because Mike came home,

01:58:42.880 told his wife to get out of the house as she entered and up as he entered an

01:58:46.480 upstairs bedroom and shut the door.

01:58:48.560 He appeared to be holding a firearm.

01:58:51.060 He is currently barricaded inside the residence.

01:58:54.900 Your personal observation,

01:58:56.580 Theo is that as you pulled up to the scene,

01:58:58.200 you see a young boy in a baseball uniform talking to detectives and he's crying

01:59:02.780 hysterically.

01:59:04.260 Presumably this is the son,

01:59:06.380 Bobby.

01:59:07.680 Okay.

01:59:09.480 Tactical Intel.

01:59:10.360 There are two known firearms.

01:59:11.260 There's a shotgun inside,

01:59:12.220 45 caliber automatic pistol.

01:59:14.500 SWAT has arrived and they set up the inner perimeter.

01:59:16.660 Neighboring houses have been evacuated.

01:59:18.780 You can ask me three questions and then I'm going to begin as though I'm Mike

01:59:21.680 and you're going to talk to me.

01:59:23.600 Okay.

01:59:24.000 I asked you three questions.

01:59:25.240 You can ask me three questions to get some information to get started.

01:59:27.640 About the case.

01:59:28.380 Yep.

01:59:28.760 Okay.

01:59:30.340 Is it based on the Brady bunch at all?

01:59:31.920 A little bit.

01:59:32.320 I use that because I knew I'd remember those names.

01:59:34.240 Oh,

01:59:34.360 fair.

01:59:35.320 Okay.

01:59:36.000 Damn.

01:59:36.340 That's one of my questions.

01:59:37.720 Let me think.

01:59:38.480 No,

01:59:38.820 that one you can throw us out.

01:59:39.780 You can ask me three questions that pertain to,

01:59:41.460 cause you're going to go online and when you go online,

01:59:43.220 it's going to be pretty intense.

01:59:44.560 Okay.

01:59:44.840 So I'm going to go online.

01:59:46.000 You're going to be talking to me and I'm Mike Brady.

01:59:48.100 Okay.

01:59:49.340 You're the primary.

01:59:50.080 Has Mike ever committed any priors?

01:59:52.900 Prior crimes or with,

01:59:53.800 with young women?

01:59:54.920 Prior,

01:59:55.160 like a salt charges.

01:59:56.980 Nope.

01:59:57.300 He has,

01:59:57.620 his record is completely clean.

01:59:59.340 Okay.

02:00:00.680 Um,

02:00:01.400 how tall is he?

02:00:04.820 Interesting question.

02:00:05.820 Uh,

02:00:06.060 he's six foot even.

02:00:07.700 Hmm.

02:00:08.420 Okay.

02:00:10.400 And is he on any medication?

02:00:13.200 Very good question.

02:00:14.660 He is,

02:00:15.400 uh,

02:00:15.660 he takes,

02:00:16.380 um,

02:00:18.540 uh,

02:00:19.020 uh,

02:00:19.260 uh,

02:00:19.540 a sleeping pill to sleep.

02:00:21.000 He has a sleeping issue.

02:00:22.740 Okay,

02:00:23.260 sir.

02:00:25.160 Hello.

02:00:26.360 Hey Mike.

02:00:27.820 Yeah.

02:00:28.180 Who's this?

02:00:29.080 Uh,

02:00:29.240 this is Theo actually.

02:00:30.200 I'm the,

02:00:31.340 I'm working.

02:00:32.400 I'm here today,

02:00:33.200 man.

02:00:33.520 Just,

02:00:33.880 um,

02:00:34.840 I really screwed up.

02:00:35.700 Didn't I,

02:00:35.960 man?

02:00:37.680 I think it seems like you've had a tough day.

02:00:39.860 I have had a tough day,

02:00:40.940 but I mean,

02:00:41.340 I screwed up this time.

02:00:44.240 Didn't I?

02:00:45.600 I think you're probably enough to answer some questions,

02:00:47.680 you know,

02:00:47.940 but

02:00:48.180 I think everything's going to be okay,

02:00:51.940 man.

02:00:52.560 How's it going to be okay?

02:00:53.880 This girl,

02:00:54.480 this girl's pregnant,

02:00:56.060 man.

02:00:56.840 I mean,

02:00:57.280 how am I going to face anyone after this?

02:00:59.340 Well,

02:00:59.760 I think you're going to have to,

02:01:01.640 her dad's going to be pissed.

02:01:03.580 Yeah.

02:01:03.880 I mean,

02:01:04.160 yeah.

02:01:04.400 People are going to be upset.

02:01:05.460 I'm not thinking about her dad.

02:01:06.520 I'm thinking about my family.

02:01:07.720 Okay.

02:01:07.960 People are going to,

02:01:08.460 yeah,

02:01:08.700 it's going to be,

02:01:09.420 yeah,

02:01:09.640 man,

02:01:09.920 it sucks.

02:01:11.100 Okay.

02:01:11.340 It does suck.

02:01:11.780 It sucks.

02:01:13.200 But here we are.

02:01:14.660 Yeah.

02:01:15.760 I mean,

02:01:16.300 how am I going to face my son?

02:01:20.560 Your son's pretty upset right now.

02:01:22.280 Yeah,

02:01:22.540 he is.

02:01:22.920 Of course he is.

02:01:23.680 I knocked up a 14 year old girl.

02:01:25.340 I'm a youth pastor in a church.

02:01:27.040 I teach at a school.

02:01:28.140 My life is over.

02:01:30.240 Give me a good reason why I shouldn't just put this thing to my head and blow my brains out.

02:01:34.100 Because your son's life is still around.

02:01:37.460 And that's not what he needs right now.

02:01:43.380 You're probably right about that.

02:01:44.980 But you know,

02:01:45.620 I mean,

02:01:45.880 how can I face him,

02:01:46.880 man?

02:01:47.220 I think you call him first.

02:01:53.740 Call him and say what?

02:01:54.820 What would you say in that situation?

02:01:56.580 I don't know.

02:01:57.700 Uh,

02:01:58.620 fuck.

02:01:59.240 I don't know.

02:01:59.920 I would say,

02:02:01.620 I would tell him the truth.

02:02:03.400 I would say I messed up.

02:02:05.280 And you think that's the answer?

02:02:07.260 Tell him I messed up.

02:02:08.420 I know I messed up.

02:02:09.780 I think it's part of it.

02:02:10.940 I know you know you did,

02:02:12.100 but he probably doesn't know what's going on.

02:02:14.360 He doesn't.

02:02:15.040 Is he out there right now?

02:02:16.540 Yeah.

02:02:17.560 You want me to put him on?

02:02:19.460 Would you?

02:02:20.440 Yeah.

02:02:21.640 Okay.

02:02:22.840 How do you feel?

02:02:23.780 How do you think you did?

02:02:25.120 Was that intense?

02:02:26.480 It is intense.

02:02:27.460 It is intense.

02:02:28.200 Fuck,

02:02:28.420 it's intense.

02:02:30.280 Because you're like,

02:02:30.940 is now,

02:02:31.440 even if you get to that part,

02:02:33.060 is he just going to tell the son goodbye?

02:02:34.880 Exactly.

02:02:35.520 See,

02:02:35.860 you are super wise,

02:02:37.920 brother.

02:02:38.260 That's exactly why we wouldn't put the son on the phone.

02:02:40.960 Because that's exactly what he would likely do.

02:02:43.780 He would try,

02:02:44.340 he would likely,

02:02:45.220 and so this is why we train.

02:02:46.640 This is why we train.

02:02:47.820 So a couple of other things,

02:02:48.940 right?

02:02:50.000 When we said son,

02:02:51.460 that was a good opportunity for you to do what?

02:02:53.900 Identify his son by name.

02:02:56.160 Because isn't Bobby different than saying son?

02:02:59.120 Yeah.

02:02:59.580 It's different,

02:03:00.080 right?

02:03:00.700 Yeah.

02:03:01.120 My wife,

02:03:01.840 that was opportunity,

02:03:02.820 and I knew that.

02:03:03.880 No,

02:03:04.240 no,

02:03:04.800 look,

02:03:05.160 use it as instructional.

02:03:06.260 Use it as instructional.

02:03:07.080 It's very interesting.

02:03:07.520 But that's when you say Carol,

02:03:08.540 right?

02:03:08.920 Right.

02:03:09.080 Yeah,

02:03:09.280 Carol,

02:03:09.660 yeah.

02:03:10.100 But what I like is that you humanize the situation,

02:03:13.680 right?

02:03:15.080 That's the thing,

02:03:15.860 again,

02:03:16.200 it's where you get the feel,

02:03:18.180 where like,

02:03:18.720 he's talking to a person that he could potentially relate to.

02:03:22.340 And you create that kind of,

02:03:24.460 that air about the situation where you would get all the costs and be just completely freaked out or completely militaristic,

02:03:31.320 you know?

02:03:31.720 And I like that you kind of humanized the whole situation.

02:03:35.780 And this is obviously super condensed.

02:03:37.460 I know.

02:03:38.200 Well,

02:03:38.400 the fascinating thing to me is,

02:03:40.080 yeah,

02:03:40.380 when you realize the gravitas of this,

02:03:42.660 like,

02:03:43.400 you think it's easy.

02:03:45.360 And then,

02:03:46.140 even this is a placebo,

02:03:47.940 even in that,

02:03:48.660 you're like,

02:03:49.460 I don't have the answer right now.

02:03:51.360 And if I don't get this right,

02:03:52.860 what happens?

02:03:53.920 And then,

02:03:54.600 I'm starting to learn,

02:03:55.620 as I think about it too,

02:03:56.340 I'm like,

02:03:56.820 well,

02:03:56.980 it's not about you anymore.

02:03:57.840 It's about your son.

02:03:58.600 And then that kind of makes me sad.

02:04:00.200 Then it's like,

02:04:00.660 now suddenly I feel more feelings.

02:04:02.320 So I'm like,

02:04:03.160 well shit,

02:04:03.560 now I'm doing this really for the son.

02:04:05.720 And I didn't even realize that until that moment,

02:04:07.860 you know,

02:04:08.020 even though like you could be trained for that,

02:04:10.120 it's like until that said,

02:04:11.540 and it's a real moment and you can picture the son and you,

02:04:14.520 God,

02:04:14.940 dude,

02:04:15.320 it's like,

02:04:16.040 it's just scary.

02:04:16.840 And then at some points you might agree that the guy,

02:04:20.880 it might be best if he lets God just,

02:04:25.540 I don't know.

02:04:26.360 Is that crazy to say that?

02:04:27.720 I don't know.

02:04:28.300 I don't think it is crazy.

02:04:29.520 I think it's normal.

02:04:30.700 So there are a lot of people who,

02:04:33.180 if not from,

02:04:33.680 obviously from not from official police,

02:04:35.040 but there are people,

02:04:36.120 anything in their own mind would say,

02:04:38.580 I wouldn't want to live if that was the case.

02:04:41.020 Right.

02:04:41.260 Right.

02:04:41.720 So I,

02:04:42.180 so I'll tell you a situation that I dealt with.

02:04:44.500 And I sent a,

02:04:45.840 some audio for it.

02:04:46.760 It was a guy named Michael Chevalier.

02:04:49.700 This was a big case in Vegas.

02:04:51.360 So here's what happened.

02:04:52.360 So the call comes out.

02:04:53.520 I'm a Sergeant at the time,

02:04:54.500 right?

02:04:54.980 Swing shift.

02:04:56.360 So it's still light outside.

02:04:57.760 The call comes out that a lady is talking on the phone to her friend and she,

02:05:02.720 the friend hears the struggle.

02:05:03.880 And then all of a sudden the line goes dead.

02:05:05.640 She calls 9-1-1.

02:05:07.240 And obviously we get this spatula and sergeants,

02:05:10.800 when we hear certain calls,

02:05:11.720 we're like,

02:05:12.020 that's something I should roll to.

02:05:13.100 We don't have to,

02:05:13.820 but that's a call I should roll to.

02:05:15.480 I happen to be close enough to where the two office.

02:05:17.620 So it's one of those apartment communities where it's one floor,

02:05:20.840 two floors,

02:05:21.480 and then there's top floor.

02:05:22.300 And then there's apartment all the way down here.

02:05:24.020 So the officers,

02:05:25.620 I see,

02:05:26.160 I pull in the parking lot and I see my officers walking to the door.

02:05:29.300 Then all of a sudden I see the door open and the officers pull out their gun and

02:05:33.880 fall back.

02:05:34.820 Like to try to get away from whatever was going on at the door.

02:05:37.800 And I hear them on the radio for 13 subject has a four 13.

02:05:40.760 So he,

02:05:41.400 the subject came to the door with his arm around the female and the,

02:05:44.780 and the,

02:05:45.120 and the firearm to the female.

02:05:46.800 So I have my car in the parking lot and then obviously code red.

02:05:52.080 That means the only emergency traffic,

02:05:53.900 all the officers come,

02:05:55.180 we get to the,

02:05:56.060 we get into the front of my car and I have a dry race and I'm on the hood of my

02:05:59.700 car pointing out where I want my officers to go and how we're going to deal

02:06:02.400 with the situation.

02:06:03.180 One of my officers at the times really sharp guy.

02:06:06.120 He says,

02:06:06.660 Hey Sarge,

02:06:07.180 I got my rifle in case he comes out.

02:06:09.000 Let me go over to this pizzeria right here and I can engage him.

02:06:11.660 If he comes out with the gun,

02:06:13.880 it was great lesson.

02:06:15.060 If one of your subordinates has a great idea,

02:06:16.800 be very quick to listen and learn from them because he was a great idea.

02:06:20.280 Cause the second that he gets over there,

02:06:22.240 Chevalier comes out and start shooting at us.

02:06:25.320 We all go down.

02:06:26.540 My guy engages Chevalier at the door and he hit like hits the door frame and

02:06:31.540 all this wood and everything hits Chevalier and Chevalier goes back inside

02:06:35.460 the house.

02:06:36.260 I'm like,

02:06:36.800 I got to call in.

02:06:38.120 There was no time.

02:06:39.000 No,

02:06:39.140 no negotiators had not been around nothing.

02:06:41.120 So I said,

02:06:41.600 if I call him,

02:06:42.160 he's not going to be shooting.

02:06:43.020 He's not going to be hurting him.

02:06:43.720 So I get in and I start having a conversation with Chevalier.

02:06:46.800 And we develop a rapport.

02:06:49.680 Interestingly,

02:06:50.360 I was able to record a segment of this conversation.

02:06:53.960 I'll play this.

02:06:54.900 We'll play the conversation.

02:06:55.820 And then I will tell you the nuances of the conversation that occurred,

02:06:58.620 the aftermath of it and how deep negotiations can be.

02:07:02.360 Okay,

02:07:02.840 cool.

02:07:03.580 Yeah.

02:07:03.720 I'll tee that up there,

02:07:04.460 Trev.

02:07:05.680 I like to keep my word.

02:07:07.180 And I know you do.

02:07:08.000 And I remember that you said that when you get back on the phone with me,

02:07:11.100 that you and I can work this out.

02:07:12.280 Can we,

02:07:12.660 if,

02:07:13.040 if,

02:07:13.340 if,

02:07:13.680 if we can work this out,

02:07:14.960 we can come to some type of agreement.

02:07:18.600 Oh,

02:07:18.780 and I'm a man of my word.

02:07:20.500 Thank you.

02:07:21.240 I think the agreement that we'll come to will be released to the hostage imperfectly.

02:07:28.680 She will be unharmed.

02:07:30.740 But,

02:07:30.760 I like what you're talking about.

02:07:35.400 I like what you're talking about.

02:07:36.520 And that peaceful agreement is the route that we got to go now.

02:07:39.360 Oh,

02:07:40.600 SWAT team is here.

02:07:41.980 Christopher,

02:07:42.500 I want you to tell the SWAT team to move away from the front of the door.

02:07:47.640 Can I just,

02:07:47.980 I want you to tell them to move them now.

02:07:49.800 I want you to tell them to move them now.

02:07:51.260 Can I,

02:07:51.540 Mike,

02:07:51.940 Michael,

02:07:52.260 can I tell you what's happening?

02:07:53.120 I want you to tell them to move away from the door.

02:07:55.840 Okay,

02:07:56.120 Michael,

02:07:56.420 can I tell you something?

02:07:57.100 I want you to tell them that.

02:07:57.880 All right,

02:07:58.180 listen,

02:07:58.460 I see them.

02:07:59.280 Give me a second.

02:07:59.880 I see the letters.

02:08:00.940 I see them.

02:08:01.780 Yes,

02:08:02.140 Michael,

02:08:02.680 that's absolutely fine.

02:08:03.720 Listen to me,

02:08:04.160 let me just tell you what's going on.

02:08:05.760 Remember before,

02:08:06.520 remember before I explained to you what was going on?

02:08:10.460 Remember,

02:08:10.860 Michael,

02:08:12.260 Michael,

02:08:12.980 remember before I explained to you what was going on?

02:08:14.680 I tell you what,

02:08:16.000 we're going to call 911.

02:08:19.520 Mike.

02:08:20.760 Okay.

02:08:23.720 So let me,

02:08:24.500 let me give you some background on this.

02:08:25.560 Okay.

02:08:26.240 I still get like really amped when he just listening to that again,

02:08:29.860 because it takes me right back there.

02:08:30.920 So Michael and I had been speaking for a while and situation seemed like it was

02:08:34.420 pretty much calm.

02:08:34.940 So negotiators were arriving.

02:08:37.980 SWAT team had arrived and they were setting up in their position.

02:08:42.380 At that point,

02:08:43.620 Michael freaked out when he saw the SWAT team,

02:08:46.660 because you see the SWAT team and their greens and their rifles.

02:08:51.140 And you know that at some point,

02:08:52.300 if you have a hostage that something's likely going to happen,

02:08:54.420 it's not going to be good for you.

02:08:58.160 Ultimately,

02:08:58.660 the decision was made to go to condition two.

02:09:01.600 Condition two is when my job is to talk Michael in front of a window so they can shoot and kill him.

02:09:08.060 So there is this interesting element to talking to a person that you are talking into their own demise.

02:09:16.620 Wow.

02:09:18.180 Talking to a dead person,

02:09:19.520 essentially.

02:09:20.960 That ended up not happening.

02:09:22.520 What happened was through electronic means,

02:09:28.080 we were able to find out that Michael was doing things to the female.

02:09:33.000 The decision was made to do an explosive breach into the apartment and then take Michael out.

02:09:40.580 Because Michael had been raping her.

02:09:42.380 And now I'm condensing this because this is a very long,

02:09:44.920 drawn out process.

02:09:45.960 Got it.

02:09:46.920 And he kidnapped the woman?

02:09:47.960 Yeah,

02:09:48.240 he did.

02:09:48.600 She had her door open.

02:09:49.560 She was out talking to her friend and he grabbed her and pulled her inside.

02:09:52.280 Got it.

02:09:53.060 Pulled her inside.

02:09:53.960 Yeah.

02:09:54.220 Ladies just out there talking.

02:09:55.480 Unreal.

02:09:56.880 So ultimately after SWAT goes in and kills him,

02:10:01.320 she's laying right there.

02:10:04.680 Talk about PTSD or what a person has to go through.

02:10:07.400 It's absolutely horrific.

02:10:08.240 But let me talk about the nuance of language.

02:10:10.600 If you watched what Michael was saying,

02:10:13.960 mind you,

02:10:14.600 the team is listening and watching every single word that a person says.

02:10:19.220 There's one very,

02:10:20.820 very interesting part of his conversation where he says,

02:10:25.540 the hostage.

02:10:26.680 Now,

02:10:26.820 again,

02:10:27.020 we would always want to change that to back to saying the person's name,

02:10:29.660 but I didn't get a chance to do that.

02:10:31.220 And I did at other points in it.

02:10:32.920 But what he says is,

02:10:35.020 she were relieved and perfectly.

02:10:36.480 And he stops at perfectly and she will be relieved,

02:10:40.460 released unharmed.

02:10:42.100 So why did he stop at perfectly?

02:10:44.540 He stopped at perfectly because he knew that he was doing things that she was

02:10:47.660 not perfect.

02:10:49.460 Our minds and our language are so intimately connected.

02:10:52.940 And when you get to understand,

02:10:54.840 see where he says release of the hostage.

02:10:56.600 He says,

02:10:57.340 play that again,

02:10:58.080 that part is back it up a second or two.

02:11:01.920 Release of the hostage imperfectly.

02:11:05.560 She will be unharmed.

02:11:06.960 But you see,

02:11:08.660 he stopped and he flipped it because he knew that she wasn't perfect.

02:11:13.120 He knew he was doing horrific things.

02:11:14.900 So,

02:11:14.980 and we listened to these types of things because we have to make a decision.

02:11:18.420 How long do we wait before we go inside?

02:11:20.400 Like,

02:11:21.000 is he just sitting there or is he actually doing that horrific?

02:11:24.680 Could she be lose her life?

02:11:26.780 Yeah.

02:11:26.960 You have to make choices.

02:11:27.980 And in becoming a negotiator,

02:11:29.460 you,

02:11:29.740 even in your own life,

02:11:30.660 you're very,

02:11:31.200 very careful with your own word choice.

02:11:32.780 And often I'll find myself when I speak to people,

02:11:36.040 there are certain words that I don't use.

02:11:38.260 I just have excised them from my vocabulary.

02:11:41.700 And it's about,

02:11:43.140 and positivity is also like when I said sleep divorce,

02:11:45.880 like I've caught myself because I don't like to attribute divorce to

02:11:49.140 something that could potentially be positive.

02:11:51.340 I,

02:11:51.480 I almost,

02:11:52.920 I don't almost,

02:11:54.680 I commit myself to utilizing the positive form of speech whenever I

02:12:00.660 possibly can.

02:12:01.460 And it's incredibly important.

02:12:02.720 It changes a lot of things.

02:12:03.800 Really?

02:12:04.320 Give me an example of that.

02:12:06.220 So,

02:12:06.780 um,

02:12:07.700 I don't,

02:12:08.240 I don't use the word problem.

02:12:09.580 Like,

02:12:10.060 like I say challenge because then you look at things as a problem.

02:12:13.860 Like,

02:12:14.180 like you,

02:12:14.880 who wants to see a problem?

02:12:15.980 I'd like to see a challenge because if you overcome it,

02:12:18.100 then it's just the challenge.

02:12:20.080 You can almost always,

02:12:21.400 if there's a negative connotation to something,

02:12:23.160 even when you go out with your mom to dinner,

02:12:24.860 if you think about it and listen to the words that you speak,

02:12:27.180 you can almost always a positive way that you could flip it back in the

02:12:31.480 day.

02:12:31.960 I,

02:12:32.400 it really is.

02:12:33.760 It's fun too.

02:12:34.740 When you think about taking that much,

02:12:36.060 it does seem fun.

02:12:36.560 Cause then it kind of adds a little bit of a challenge to your own,

02:12:39.020 how you're communicating.

02:12:40.260 And the crazy thing is,

02:12:41.580 you know,

02:12:41.820 who hears us the most us.

02:12:43.400 Yes.

02:12:44.420 Yes.

02:12:45.380 And it means you care about what comes out of your mouth.

02:12:48.720 You know,

02:12:49.200 I,

02:12:49.480 back in the day,

02:12:49.940 I wrote a dating book called Mac tactics.

02:12:52.140 Really?

02:12:52.620 I did.

02:12:53.040 It was called Mac tactics.

02:12:54.420 The art,

02:12:55.060 the science of seduction meets the art of hostage negotiation.

02:12:58.060 In 2005,

02:12:58.940 I wrote this book and it was about utilizing the length.

02:13:01.480 Yeah,

02:13:01.580 there it is.

02:13:02.400 It's about utilizing language in the day.

02:13:06.480 Yeah.

02:13:07.020 Is it helpful?

02:13:07.820 Yeah.

02:13:08.000 How would a hostage negotiator,

02:13:09.460 what do you tell me if I'm talking to a lady?

02:13:11.300 So it's interesting because it was more about,

02:13:12.840 so Mac,

02:13:13.300 I changed Mac from,

02:13:15.040 from what most people think Mac is.

02:13:16.420 And I changed it to method,

02:13:18.060 action,

02:13:18.760 confidence,

02:13:19.260 and knowledge.

02:13:19.620 I co-wrote it with my boy,

02:13:20.520 Rob Weiser.

02:13:21.020 Rob is like really the right.

02:13:22.260 I mean,

02:13:22.640 Rob is the NYU dude.

02:13:23.820 Super smart.

02:13:24.280 He's my boy.

02:13:24.860 Like I was the,

02:13:25.720 the content guy.

02:13:26.820 Okay.

02:13:27.140 And so method,

02:13:28.380 action,

02:13:28.880 confidence,

02:13:29.380 knowledge,

02:13:29.760 and all of those were what we call the pillars of power.

02:13:32.300 And conversation was incredibly important as far as method was concerned.

02:13:35.800 And minimal encouragers,

02:13:38.680 like,

02:13:38.860 so you know what a minimal encourager is?

02:13:40.340 And so minimal encourager and paraphrasing are two things that negotiators learn to master.

02:13:44.460 So minimal encourager,

02:13:45.580 like when I'm looking at you,

02:13:46.420 like you're,

02:13:46.680 how you're like minimally like shaking your head like that.

02:13:48.660 You're naturally encouraging me to continue on with my speech.

02:13:51.580 Okay.

02:13:51.960 We have verbal minimal,

02:13:52.940 minimal encouragers as well.

02:13:54.320 Like when a person's speaking,

02:13:55.520 you're like,

02:13:55.940 okay.

02:13:57.400 Yeah.

02:13:57.840 Yeah.

02:13:58.020 So when you learn to naturally incorporate those things into your speech,

02:14:02.700 it really encourages a person to open up.

02:14:05.380 And if you're a good listener,

02:14:06.880 you can hear everything that a person wants to say to you.

02:14:09.500 And paraphrasing is when you listen to what a person says,

02:14:12.260 and then you say it back to them in a slightly different format,

02:14:16.180 adding positives if necessary,

02:14:18.420 which really shows them that you're listening.

02:14:20.160 And in dating,

02:14:21.380 that's an incredibly effective method of building a bond between two people.

02:14:28.260 100%.

02:14:28.740 Let's try it.

02:14:30.400 Okay.

02:14:30.960 So if you,

02:14:31.820 so how do we do it?

02:14:34.660 So here's how we do it.

02:14:35.500 Like,

02:14:35.740 uh,

02:14:35.960 tell me about your,

02:14:37.660 what your day was like yesterday,

02:14:38.860 a small segment of your day.

02:14:40.360 Yeah.

02:14:40.780 Yesterday I went to,

02:14:42.540 um,

02:14:44.320 yeah,

02:14:44.600 I went to watch some music and,

02:14:46.660 uh,

02:14:47.840 I was pretty tired,

02:14:48.880 probably stayed up a little later than I should have,

02:14:50.400 but I had a pretty good time,

02:14:51.820 you know?

02:14:52.480 So,

02:14:52.920 so when you were going out yesterday,

02:14:54.220 did,

02:14:54.800 um,

02:14:55.340 is it tired because you were having fun or was it because you,

02:14:58.120 um,

02:14:58.820 just didn't have enough rest?

02:15:00.400 Oh,

02:15:00.740 I see what you're doing.

02:15:01.400 So you're saying the same thing.

02:15:02.460 I'm,

02:15:02.700 I'm,

02:15:02.840 I'm saying back to you,

02:15:03.860 like the shows that I'm listening and that I care about what the outcome was.

02:15:06.840 Usually men will encourage it.

02:15:08.220 I mean,

02:15:08.480 right.

02:15:08.960 Cause then I feel a little bit more,

02:15:10.880 okay,

02:15:11.180 this is nice.

02:15:11.980 This is fun.

02:15:12.960 This is worth our time.

02:15:14.580 Yeah.

02:15:15.200 And it,

02:15:15.640 and it gives you time to just kind of build a person's trust in sharing with you.

02:15:20.820 So conversation and listening are two very,

02:15:23.060 very important things,

02:15:23.860 not to be overbearing in your conversation and listening to the other person and showing that you're listening.

02:15:28.920 Negotiators are very good listeners.

02:15:30.840 So me and me doing that,

02:15:32.680 that exercise with you,

02:15:34.060 I had an idea that you were going to be kind of good at it.

02:15:36.840 Most people don't even get,

02:15:38.400 first of all,

02:15:38.820 they don't have the confidence to even try it.

02:15:40.560 I was very pleased that you were willing to try it,

02:15:42.260 but I had this thing about it because you're like very,

02:15:46.740 very relatable.

02:15:47.540 Like I have a thing that I think that you would be a good negotiator.

02:15:51.100 I think that you have at your core,

02:15:52.760 the ability to be a really good negotiator.

02:15:54.340 I thought about this movie where the,

02:15:56.080 they call you Mr.

02:15:58.500 Relatable,

02:15:59.040 the primary where like you,

02:16:01.320 it was not even really you.

02:16:02.840 It's like a person who was like a younger you.

02:16:04.760 That was like a,

02:16:05.400 like a person who was a standup comic.

02:16:06.960 And the guy goes to the show and decides he wants the 405 because he's just done with life.

02:16:12.080 But you,

02:16:12.500 he just related with you and that you negotiate him out of doing it.

02:16:15.540 And the police see you doing it.

02:16:17.080 And then you,

02:16:18.060 your arc is that you realize that in negotiating with people that how much it relates to things that you've been through in your own life.

02:16:25.720 Do they have,

02:16:26.820 that almost sounds like a movie that I bet somebody would,

02:16:29.020 not exactly,

02:16:29.920 but I bet.

02:16:30.960 Yeah.

02:16:31.360 A negotiator and they're,

02:16:33.040 and it's,

02:16:33.500 they're really channeling things that are going on in their own lives or what.

02:16:36.080 It happens to us.

02:16:37.080 It does.

02:16:37.720 It 100% happens to us,

02:16:39.620 but most of us don't have the natural relatability that you have.

02:16:45.000 Like,

02:16:45.340 I mean,

02:16:46.600 no,

02:16:47.260 I don't have any need to blow smoke,

02:16:48.580 right?

02:16:48.800 Like I really like you.

02:16:50.120 I think you're dope.

02:16:50.780 But I'm just saying,

02:16:51.420 but your relatability is level is off the meter with all races of people,

02:16:57.160 with all genders of people.

02:16:59.120 I don't know if you relate it to yourself as well as you relate to other people,

02:17:02.620 which might be an interesting element.

02:17:04.200 That might be even part of the element of Mr.

02:17:06.880 Relatable,

02:17:07.280 the primary,

02:17:07.720 but there's something there.

02:17:09.500 And I think that,

02:17:10.120 you know,

02:17:10.360 you could definitely be a negotiator primary,

02:17:12.460 the primary.

02:17:13.120 That's a cool name for something.

02:17:14.400 The primary.

02:17:14.980 There you go,

02:17:15.500 man.

02:17:15.700 Imagine that,

02:17:16.420 you know,

02:17:16.680 you talk the guy out,

02:17:17.680 someone gets it on video that you did it.

02:17:19.600 And the police are reaching out to you to handle these high level

02:17:22.560 negotiations.

02:17:23.200 And he's trying to make your career work.

02:17:25.120 You could do it,

02:17:25.800 man.

02:17:26.940 Thanks,

02:17:27.340 man.

02:17:27.460 That's some nice thoughts.

02:17:28.400 And just so,

02:17:29.360 so,

02:17:30.260 so that's a nice thing you can do.

02:17:32.160 If you're talking with a woman,

02:17:33.220 pay attention and share stuff that they said back to them to create

02:17:36.840 comfortability.

02:17:38.360 Yeah.

02:17:38.520 Because a lot of times it's guys,

02:17:39.400 we don't necessarily list.

02:17:40.520 Like sometimes them.

02:17:41.540 No,

02:17:41.840 especially you're just doing your best.

02:17:43.200 It's like you're trying to survive.

02:17:44.620 It's almost like you're treading water.

02:17:45.700 It's like,

02:17:45.900 I know I'm swimming,

02:17:46.640 but I'm really just,

02:17:47.440 you know,

02:17:48.280 trying to stay alive at this moment.

02:17:50.320 And open-ended questions.

02:17:51.980 You know,

02:17:52.340 this is an excellent open-ended question.

02:17:54.500 And how did that make you feel?

02:17:57.220 That's an excellent question.

02:17:58.700 And be sincere about it.

02:17:59.880 Like this,

02:18:00.480 the stuff that I'm selling is not,

02:18:01.860 I'm not trying to sell it.

02:18:02.760 This is the stuff that I'm sharing that really matters.

02:18:05.060 Asking up and like,

02:18:05.740 how did that make you feel?

02:18:06.680 Like if the girl that you go on a date with,

02:18:08.200 she's like,

02:18:08.440 oh my goodness,

02:18:08.840 it took me forever to get here.

02:18:09.800 The Uber driver kept looking at me.

02:18:11.440 It looked like my boob was popping up.

02:18:12.900 I get it.

02:18:13.660 But how did that make you feel?

02:18:14.920 Yeah.

02:18:15.200 How do you feel about it?

02:18:16.120 Yeah.

02:18:16.340 How do you feel?

02:18:16.500 Like,

02:18:16.720 I'm okay with it actually.

02:18:18.060 Just kind of a tactic.

02:18:19.180 Because sometimes you need somebody to put you,

02:18:21.120 you get all soiled.

02:18:22.260 You need somebody to put you back in the pot,

02:18:24.080 you know?

02:18:24.600 Yeah.

02:18:24.840 Like sometimes I'll be frantic.

02:18:25.980 But everything's fine.

02:18:27.020 You're like,

02:18:27.440 yeah,

02:18:27.700 everything's fine.

02:18:28.280 It's like fucking,

02:18:29.200 you know,

02:18:29.560 I'll get caught down to,

02:18:30.680 you know,

02:18:30.860 I'll get caught going upstream when I don't really don't need to,

02:18:34.300 you know?

02:18:36.040 What else was I thinking about?

02:18:37.540 Oh,

02:18:38.480 there's that famous case in Las Vegas of the shooter,

02:18:40.760 right?

02:18:41.200 In the,

02:18:41.760 yeah.

02:18:42.260 Yeah.

02:18:43.320 conspiracy theories about that.

02:18:44.440 Was that a real thing?

02:18:46.020 Oh yeah,

02:18:46.300 it was real.

02:18:46.800 I know some of the cops that enter.

02:18:48.480 And one of my cop buddies got,

02:18:50.420 pulled a guy off the street and drove him to the hospital and dropped him off.

02:18:54.060 I mean,

02:18:54.340 one of my closest cop buddies did that.

02:18:56.060 And I actually got a recording of him telling me about that.

02:18:59.280 Cause I use it in a training class that I had,

02:19:00.880 but that situation,

02:19:01.720 that 100% happened.

02:19:03.280 Wow.

02:19:03.600 Yeah.

02:19:03.760 That was,

02:19:03.960 that was real.

02:19:05.940 Yeah.

02:19:06.660 That's unbelievable.

02:19:07.720 Huh?

02:19:08.300 Yeah.

02:19:08.600 That was,

02:19:08.980 that was wild,

02:19:09.660 man.

02:19:09.800 And just to show you,

02:19:10.520 you know,

02:19:10.780 I wear this thing,

02:19:11.420 it says momento Mori,

02:19:12.360 which means you remember you will die.

02:19:14.200 Cause you don't know when you're going to die.

02:19:16.180 It can happen at any time,

02:19:17.480 man.

02:19:17.640 And that's the messed up thing about cop work is that it's always at either the

02:19:21.200 forefront of the back of your mind that,

02:19:23.220 you know,

02:19:23.480 you think about it.

02:19:24.120 Like when I,

02:19:24.460 when I was crazy,

02:19:25.200 when the driver picked me up today in the black vehicle and this is cops

02:19:28.980 think like,

02:19:29.380 I was like,

02:19:30.860 is this really,

02:19:31.520 this guy not setting me up,

02:19:32.620 right?

02:19:32.760 This is legit.

02:19:33.400 Like,

02:19:33.740 you know,

02:19:34.080 you have this,

02:19:34.720 like a paranoia thing that goes around in your mind about like,

02:19:37.740 if a person walks into a restaurant,

02:19:38.780 we always sit with our back to the door.

02:19:40.160 It becomes uncomfortable sometimes.

02:19:42.000 Yeah.

02:19:42.680 Well,

02:19:42.960 now we're not back to the door facing the door.

02:19:44.880 So,

02:19:45.100 but yeah,

02:19:45.560 cause I guess you develop,

02:19:46.620 it's not really a paranoia as much as it is a,

02:19:49.140 um,

02:19:50.480 preservation really.

02:19:51.500 It is self-preservation.

02:19:52.660 Cause seeing death on,

02:19:54.420 on those levels,

02:19:55.400 it's a trip.

02:19:56.740 Um,

02:19:57.740 does doing,

02:19:58.460 uh,

02:19:59.540 police work,

02:20:00.300 sergeant work,

02:20:01.200 um,

02:20:02.100 a negotiation,

02:20:03.560 um,

02:20:04.740 work,

02:20:05.580 does it wear down your compassion or does it build it over time?

02:20:09.660 Do you think?

02:20:10.240 Oh,

02:20:10.380 that's such a good question for me in the,

02:20:14.760 in the immediate,

02:20:16.720 you,

02:20:17.560 you,

02:20:17.760 you kind of build up this,

02:20:19.280 um,

02:20:19.860 this thick skin where you don't like for me,

02:20:23.040 I don't showing emotion is still a challenge for me in life.

02:20:26.020 I get emotional and you sometimes will see that there'll be tears that can

02:20:29.780 well up in my eye,

02:20:30.400 but I don't want to let them fall down.

02:20:32.040 Oh yeah.

02:20:32.660 So it's,

02:20:33.220 it's tough.

02:20:34.640 But to answer your question,

02:20:36.500 I think that in the,

02:20:37.800 while you're doing it,

02:20:39.140 thick skin,

02:20:39.800 as you get older,

02:20:41.400 you become more like that,

02:20:44.020 you know,

02:20:44.280 I really feel what you're going through.

02:20:45.980 You know,

02:20:46.580 I wish that I could,

02:20:47.900 and I don't like to say,

02:20:48.580 I wish there's a way that I could help you.

02:20:50.920 My goal is to figure out how I can do that.

02:20:53.380 My,

02:20:53.880 one of my lieutenants,

02:20:54.840 I think I,

02:20:55.260 you guys have the audio.

02:20:56.800 And it's one of my lieutenants,

02:20:58.220 um,

02:20:58.920 four or five.

02:21:00.380 And,

02:21:00.840 uh,

02:21:00.920 there's audio of it.

02:21:03.160 Um,

02:21:04.100 this is horrific,

02:21:05.220 horrific story.

02:21:06.480 Las Vegas cop shot wife and five-year-old son before taking his own,

02:21:11.660 before unaliving himself.

02:21:13.260 Okay.

02:21:13.320 Yes.

02:21:13.960 He,

02:21:14.380 uh,

02:21:14.540 so this guy was my,

02:21:15.800 my,

02:21:16.100 my lieutenant and,

02:21:17.360 uh,

02:21:17.760 you can play the audio if you want.

02:21:18.980 And he,

02:21:19.260 this kind of,

02:21:19.680 he tells everything right here.

02:21:20.580 And I'll give you a little background afterwards.

02:21:21.940 Okay.

02:21:23.400 9-1-1,

02:21:24.040 what's the address of your emergency?

02:21:25.760 Hi.

02:21:26.780 And what's the problem?

02:21:27.800 Tell me exactly what happened.

02:21:29.200 My name is Hans Walters.

02:21:31.260 Uh,

02:21:31.580 I work for Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.

02:21:36.220 Uh,

02:21:36.860 I just

02:21:37.640 shot and killed my son,

02:21:40.020 Max,

02:21:40.380 and my wife,

02:21:41.240 Michelle.

02:21:42.040 And I killed her because

02:21:43.780 she's in such chronic pain

02:21:46.440 from her neck and back

02:21:48.420 and on more medicines

02:21:50.720 and she's not going to survive.

02:21:53.040 And

02:21:53.600 we were both seeing,

02:21:55.340 uh,

02:21:56.720 therapists and psychologists

02:21:58.120 in Boulder City.

02:21:59.260 His name is

02:21:59.640 and,

02:22:01.480 uh,

02:22:02.160 I feel terrible for doing it.

02:22:06.600 Okay,

02:22:07.200 and you,

02:22:07.780 voice out.

02:22:08.380 Please don't,

02:22:08.920 please don't interrupt me,

02:22:09.920 please.

02:22:10.700 Okay.

02:22:11.040 Uh,

02:22:11.300 I,

02:22:11.540 I've also set the house on fire

02:22:13.860 and

02:22:15.140 if the fire department

02:22:16.740 comes to my house,

02:22:18.860 because there's a fire hydrant

02:22:19.940 right in front of my house,

02:22:21.260 uh,

02:22:22.160 I'm going to open fire on them.

02:22:23.500 So I have to wait

02:22:24.180 until the house is burning

02:22:25.100 and then I'm going to shoot myself,

02:22:26.380 okay?

02:22:27.480 So,

02:22:27.860 okay,

02:22:28.120 I don't,

02:22:28.420 I don't ask me any questions.

02:22:29.780 This is,

02:22:30.220 this is real.

02:22:30.900 This isn't a joke.

02:22:32.160 The fire alarm's in the background

02:22:33.400 is because I set the garage

02:22:34.700 and the bedroom on fire.

02:22:36.540 My wife's in the bedroom.

02:22:38.360 I shot her in the head.

02:22:39.880 My son,

02:22:40.600 unfortunately,

02:22:41.320 is a morning room

02:22:41.940 watching Oswald

02:22:42.880 and I shot him in the head too.

02:22:45.200 And,

02:22:45.660 uh,

02:22:47.360 oh,

02:22:48.420 forgive me for my sins.

02:22:50.140 Please don't call back.

02:22:50.960 Thank you.

02:22:51.700 Oh my God.

02:22:52.720 So,

02:22:53.280 uh,

02:22:53.820 Hans was,

02:22:54.400 uh,

02:22:54.520 my lieutenant

02:22:55.080 and,

02:22:56.080 uh,

02:22:56.320 for a period of time.

02:22:57.380 Yeah.

02:22:57.680 It reminds me of him

02:22:58.440 for a period of time.

02:22:59.780 And,

02:23:00.220 uh,

02:23:00.680 he was one of the most

02:23:03.500 soft-spoken,

02:23:05.600 polite.

02:23:06.200 Every time he would talk to you,

02:23:07.300 he would say,

02:23:07.660 please and thank you.

02:23:10.520 Total family man.

02:23:12.040 Not,

02:23:12.400 wasn't a go out after work

02:23:14.300 drinker type guy.

02:23:15.440 Everything in the time

02:23:16.980 that I knew him

02:23:17.420 was about his wife

02:23:18.340 and his son,

02:23:19.040 Max.

02:23:19.560 I remember there was a time

02:23:20.780 that's him right there

02:23:21.420 and that's his wife.

02:23:22.020 She was a cop at one time.

02:23:23.720 And I remember there was,

02:23:24.880 when he was my lieutenant,

02:23:26.440 he would go take time off

02:23:27.880 to go take care of her

02:23:29.160 and he would put me

02:23:30.340 as,

02:23:30.960 to,

02:23:31.020 to take care of the

02:23:31.980 lieutenant paperwork

02:23:32.580 and he was always just very

02:23:33.580 please and thank you.

02:23:35.300 And he was just,

02:23:36.380 just,

02:23:37.160 I mean,

02:23:37.380 it's so weird for me

02:23:38.780 to be able to say that

02:23:39.500 one of the most kind,

02:23:41.160 soft-spoken people to me

02:23:42.880 and to the other people

02:23:45.120 that he interacted with,

02:23:46.120 which was so wild.

02:23:48.380 So his wife had some

02:23:49.900 significant medical challenges.

02:23:52.560 And when I was younger,

02:23:53.480 as I said before,

02:23:54.320 I didn't understand

02:23:55.160 how suffering from pain

02:23:56.680 can be so debilitating

02:23:59.240 for a person.

02:24:00.540 Now this is what's

02:24:01.500 really interesting.

02:24:03.740 In this situation,

02:24:05.760 Hans walked outside

02:24:06.760 after he shot his wife

02:24:08.640 and his son

02:24:09.560 and he didn't get,

02:24:13.180 the police didn't shoot him

02:24:14.300 and I believe that

02:24:15.840 he wanted it to be

02:24:16.800 a suicide by a cop

02:24:17.920 and that's the only reason

02:24:20.080 I can,

02:24:20.640 you know,

02:24:21.180 muster as to why

02:24:21.940 he would walk outside

02:24:22.980 but they didn't shoot him

02:24:24.140 and he went inside

02:24:24.700 and then he,

02:24:25.200 he 405'd.

02:24:27.440 What's interesting

02:24:28.160 is I told you

02:24:28.840 as I listened

02:24:29.320 to the conversation,

02:24:30.340 I listened to the language,

02:24:31.340 what he says is,

02:24:32.640 he says,

02:24:33.080 please forgive me.

02:24:36.180 What would a person

02:24:37.860 normally say?

02:24:39.040 Would you just say

02:24:39.720 please forgive me

02:24:40.400 or would you say

02:24:41.140 God forgive me?

02:24:43.160 But in my mind,

02:24:44.240 I feel like

02:24:44.940 potentially,

02:24:46.940 why,

02:24:47.560 Theo,

02:24:48.200 you're a negotiator now,

02:24:49.180 why did he not

02:24:49.760 use the word God?

02:24:53.040 Because he'd done

02:24:53.900 some things that were bad

02:24:54.920 that God wouldn't

02:24:55.620 forgive him for.

02:24:56.160 There you go, brother.

02:24:56.880 See,

02:24:57.360 you get this stuff, man.

02:24:58.580 You really get this stuff

02:24:59.460 and that's why

02:25:00.020 that word

02:25:00.880 did not come out

02:25:01.720 of his mouth.

02:25:02.560 What a horrific situation,

02:25:03.440 but let me tell you

02:25:03.920 something, man.

02:25:04.700 There are some people

02:25:05.880 under those circumstances

02:25:07.340 who don't want

02:25:08.920 anyone else

02:25:09.500 to raise their kid.

02:25:13.400 Can I speak to

02:25:14.260 why he did that?

02:25:15.000 I don't know,

02:25:15.900 but I can tell you

02:25:16.620 that I do have experience

02:25:17.860 with a person

02:25:18.780 who's just something

02:25:19.420 like that.

02:25:19.800 And I sent you,

02:25:20.680 there's no audio

02:25:21.360 of this,

02:25:21.760 but I did send

02:25:22.440 a file of this case,

02:25:24.420 Timothy Blackburn.

02:25:25.420 I was a negotiator

02:25:27.040 on the team

02:25:27.560 at this time

02:25:27.920 and my team

02:25:28.360 got the call out

02:25:28.940 for Blackburn.

02:25:29.960 I did not negotiate

02:25:30.780 on an FBI agent

02:25:32.020 who was connected

02:25:35.620 with Blackburn,

02:25:36.260 negotiated.

02:25:36.740 Quick story

02:25:37.220 about what Blackburn

02:25:38.000 did.

02:25:38.580 Blackburn committed

02:25:39.380 a robbery

02:25:39.940 of a vault in Vegas.

02:25:41.720 A million plus dollars.

02:25:43.160 Wow.

02:25:43.800 A million plus dollars

02:25:45.120 he got away with,

02:25:46.220 but he got caught.

02:25:48.020 So Blackburn,

02:25:48.700 that's Blackburn right there.

02:25:49.560 Ooh, he's Asian.

02:25:50.640 Yeah, Blackburn got caught.

02:25:51.960 Yeah, Blackburn got caught.

02:25:52.700 Blackburn got caught.

02:25:53.540 What do you think he was?

02:25:55.420 Blackburn?

02:25:56.400 Yeah.

02:25:57.000 Probably white or black.

02:25:58.280 Yeah.

02:25:58.920 Well, so he got caught.

02:26:00.940 He's in the North Las Vegas,

02:26:02.040 one of the North Las Vegas

02:26:02.920 detention, whatever,

02:26:03.700 because it was a federal crime.

02:26:05.540 And his wife breaks him

02:26:07.440 out of the jail.

02:26:08.240 He escapes.

02:26:08.940 She put a screwdriver

02:26:10.420 in her hair.

02:26:11.480 He escapes.

02:26:13.060 Dude, I love them.

02:26:13.940 There's a manhunt for them.

02:26:15.660 Okay?

02:26:16.300 It was like one of the biggest

02:26:17.860 manhunts in Vegas.

02:26:18.920 And they kept telling us

02:26:19.820 that we're going to catch him

02:26:21.120 at something.

02:26:21.380 We're going to catch him.

02:26:21.880 There's a reward.

02:26:22.940 They find him barricaded

02:26:25.500 in one of those

02:26:26.320 daily suite hotels.

02:26:28.120 Okay?

02:26:28.440 This story's trippy.

02:26:30.400 He doesn't want to talk

02:26:31.080 to anyone on my negotiation team.

02:26:33.260 He wants to talk

02:26:33.720 to the FBI agent

02:26:34.460 who arrests him.

02:26:35.460 This FBI agent said,

02:26:37.400 when Blackburn said,

02:26:38.000 am I looking at much time?

02:26:39.100 He said,

02:26:39.540 your probation officer

02:26:40.620 hasn't been born yet.

02:26:41.620 And so Blackburn is in there

02:26:49.520 and they're talking.

02:26:51.060 You know,

02:26:51.440 the FBI agent can,

02:26:53.920 you know,

02:26:54.200 hear the kids in the background

02:26:55.620 and Blackburn,

02:26:56.360 it's like,

02:26:56.840 it was with his family.

02:26:57.760 You know,

02:26:57.940 he was a family guy.

02:27:00.240 So SWAT is set up

02:27:01.300 on the house

02:27:01.960 and they're figuring out,

02:27:04.220 you know,

02:27:05.260 whether or when to breach.

02:27:07.980 You know,

02:27:08.360 time is on our side,

02:27:10.060 but here's what happens.

02:27:12.420 A cop I know

02:27:13.300 is on the outer perimeter,

02:27:14.700 patrol officer.

02:27:16.380 He's got his shotgun.

02:27:17.580 He's moved from one position

02:27:18.400 to the other,

02:27:19.340 slinging his shotgun.

02:27:21.520 His shotgun goes off.

02:27:23.560 Blackburn thinks that SWAT

02:27:24.660 is making an entry.

02:27:25.720 It was just,

02:27:27.120 the guy had a negligent discharge.

02:27:29.960 Blackburn then summarily shoots

02:27:31.960 his wife,

02:27:32.800 kid,

02:27:33.440 and himself.

02:27:34.680 SWAT goes in

02:27:35.440 just as he's doing that

02:27:36.600 and shoot Blackburn

02:27:38.100 as he's falling to the ground.

02:27:39.420 And even in the testimony

02:27:40.500 because the SWAT officer says,

02:27:42.440 you know,

02:27:42.620 I shot a dead man

02:27:43.960 because he killed him

02:27:44.620 because Blackburn

02:27:45.620 was saying stuff like,

02:27:47.080 I don't want to visit my kid

02:27:48.460 through a plexiglass.

02:27:50.420 And he was of the mindset

02:27:52.360 that no one else

02:27:53.500 is going to raise my kid

02:27:54.580 or be with my woman.

02:27:56.840 And knowing that

02:27:58.080 there are people like that.

02:27:58.900 And that is a very,

02:28:00.940 I have to walk very carefully

02:28:02.280 when I say these things

02:28:03.200 because this is

02:28:03.880 very sensitive information.

02:28:05.560 I'm only speaking

02:28:06.200 from my perspective

02:28:07.000 in the information

02:28:07.840 that I have

02:28:08.520 in hopes

02:28:09.380 that it could help

02:28:10.120 someone else

02:28:10.820 in the future

02:28:11.700 that if you find yourself

02:28:12.800 in a situation,

02:28:14.340 God forbid,

02:28:15.500 where there's a degree of,

02:28:18.760 you feel like you can't go on

02:28:20.180 without a person.

02:28:21.000 You can,

02:28:22.160 and everyone has a sanctity life

02:28:24.260 and should be able to go on.

02:28:26.680 It's just,

02:28:27.820 in my opinion,

02:28:28.520 not the way to go.

02:28:29.880 Hmm.

02:28:30.700 Yeah,

02:28:31.060 it's,

02:28:31.280 I mean,

02:28:31.760 it's crazy to think

02:28:32.620 of all the little pieces

02:28:33.940 of all the little avenues

02:28:37.900 of things

02:28:39.440 you would never think

02:28:40.440 need to be information

02:28:41.640 or that you would glean

02:28:43.760 from an officer,

02:28:46.800 a sergeant,

02:28:47.760 a detective,

02:28:49.060 a hostage negotiator.

02:28:50.220 But the simple fact

02:28:51.520 that you're saying

02:28:52.880 based on my information,

02:28:55.080 if you are unaliving yourself,

02:28:57.560 you shouldn't unalive

02:28:58.560 other people with you

02:28:59.900 because it's not,

02:29:01.060 that's not the way to go.

02:29:02.260 It's just,

02:29:03.460 I don't even know

02:29:04.680 who else even,

02:29:05.400 yeah,

02:29:05.600 I mean,

02:29:05.820 that's an easy thing

02:29:06.560 just to say,

02:29:07.180 but you're saying it

02:29:07.840 based on information

02:29:08.900 that you've seen,

02:29:09.820 you know?

02:29:10.300 Yeah.

02:29:11.740 Yeah,

02:29:12.120 I think we talked,

02:29:12.780 man,

02:29:12.960 thank you so much today,

02:29:14.060 Chris,

02:29:14.440 for joining me,

02:29:14.920 man.

02:29:15.060 I think a lot,

02:29:15.880 it's like,

02:29:16.700 it's just interesting

02:29:17.560 you start to get

02:29:18.300 even more of a scope

02:29:19.640 of like,

02:29:21.200 just what

02:29:22.100 fills up the minds

02:29:24.860 and the histories

02:29:26.200 and the timelines

02:29:27.620 of,

02:29:28.760 of officers,

02:29:30.680 of people

02:29:31.100 that are there

02:29:31.640 to serve,

02:29:32.360 you know,

02:29:32.580 people that are there

02:29:33.220 to protect

02:29:33.800 and how do they

02:29:34.960 manage all that?

02:29:37.120 Cut people slack too.

02:29:38.580 Cut people slack.

02:29:39.500 Yeah.

02:29:39.660 When you're driving

02:29:40.040 on the road

02:29:40.480 when you're in a restaurant,

02:29:41.940 you know,

02:29:42.340 cut people slack.

02:29:43.600 You could just really

02:29:44.400 avoid so much stuff

02:29:45.480 by taking a deep breath

02:29:47.540 and making a different decision

02:29:49.280 and not bullying people,

02:29:52.220 man,

02:29:52.620 you know,

02:29:53.180 and all of that stuff

02:29:54.080 can lead to a person

02:29:55.020 doing some bull crap,

02:29:56.540 like,

02:29:56.960 you know,

02:29:57.260 some of the stuff

02:29:58.000 that we see

02:29:58.480 when people barricade

02:29:59.680 and want to 405 them,

02:30:01.480 you know.

02:30:02.160 Yeah,

02:30:02.580 because when somebody

02:30:03.080 goes over the edge,

02:30:03.840 they're over the edge.

02:30:04.660 They're over the edge.

02:30:05.720 At that point,

02:30:06.340 you know,

02:30:07.040 the original plateau

02:30:08.140 doesn't matter to them anymore.

02:30:09.680 You know,

02:30:09.940 the original gradient

02:30:10.920 of things doesn't matter.

02:30:12.300 You know,

02:30:12.760 when I drive,

02:30:13.680 I carry something

02:30:15.160 in my center console

02:30:16.840 that will address

02:30:18.440 a road rage situation

02:30:20.040 and it's not what you think.

02:30:22.080 I carry a clown nose,

02:30:23.840 a red clown nose

02:30:24.840 and if I see a person

02:30:25.940 driving crazy,

02:30:26.640 I really,

02:30:27.380 I really do this deal.

02:30:28.520 I really do this.

02:30:29.440 I put the clown nose on myself

02:30:31.640 and my only rule is

02:30:32.820 I cannot take the clown nose off

02:30:34.360 because I know

02:30:35.380 that I'm not going to yell

02:30:36.340 and scream at a person

02:30:37.240 while I have the clown nose on

02:30:38.260 and if I take the clown nose off,

02:30:39.820 I'm being a clown.

02:30:41.060 You will not believe

02:30:41.640 how many times

02:30:42.360 that has stopped me

02:30:43.420 from acting like an idiot

02:30:44.860 and it's just such a stupid,

02:30:46.860 basic,

02:30:47.340 simple way

02:30:47.840 to avoid road rage

02:30:49.140 because I tell you,

02:30:50.240 the thing that will get

02:30:51.060 the average citizen

02:30:51.960 in trouble,

02:30:52.420 two things.

02:30:53.180 One is a domestic violence situation

02:30:54.940 and the number two thing

02:30:55.860 is something that they do

02:30:56.700 driving,

02:30:57.240 drinking

02:30:57.520 or acting like an idiot

02:30:58.900 in a road rage.

02:30:59.980 Those are the two things.

02:31:00.960 Those are the top two?

02:31:02.200 Say them one more time.

02:31:03.320 So domestic,

02:31:04.280 get into a situation

02:31:05.240 because domestic is brother to brother.

02:31:07.140 I've been to so many calls.

02:31:08.320 One time I went to a call,

02:31:09.400 a brother got out of the military,

02:31:10.560 he's on leave from the military,

02:31:11.680 they got drunk,

02:31:12.260 they got into a fight.

02:31:13.920 That's domestic.

02:31:15.280 It's a mandatory arrest.

02:31:17.980 So that's an average citizen

02:31:19.180 and you lose your right

02:31:20.900 to carry a firearm then.

02:31:21.960 Wow.

02:31:22.400 And it's a misdemeanor.

02:31:23.220 And then the other thing

02:31:24.140 is some kind of driving,

02:31:25.380 road rage,

02:31:26.240 battery situation

02:31:27.400 that a person gets to

02:31:28.240 or drinking and driving.

02:31:29.480 Those are the top,

02:31:30.400 top?

02:31:30.880 So you call it three

02:31:31.760 because if you want to say

02:31:32.340 drinking and driving

02:31:32.900 or road raging

02:31:33.760 and getting into a situation

02:31:35.120 where you end up,

02:31:35.860 you know,

02:31:36.780 getting into a fight

02:31:37.960 with someone.

02:31:38.360 Those three things

02:31:39.120 are the civilian,

02:31:39.880 the civilian things

02:31:41.080 that happen all the time.

02:31:41.880 If you can control

02:31:42.600 those things,

02:31:43.860 plummet.

02:31:44.760 Odds are you going

02:31:45.460 to be super safe.

02:31:46.400 Yes.

02:31:48.640 Man,

02:31:49.080 Christopher Curtis,

02:31:49.740 thanks so much

02:31:50.200 for hanging out, dude.

02:31:51.440 I got to take my mom

02:31:52.480 to eat

02:31:52.880 or I would chat

02:31:53.480 a little more.

02:31:54.100 No, I'm down, brother.

02:31:54.940 I mean,

02:31:55.140 I really appreciate it.

02:31:55.960 It was an awesome experience.

02:31:57.240 Great hotel.

02:31:57.780 Your team is phenomenal, brother.

02:31:59.540 You got a really cool team, man.

02:32:00.860 Oh, thank you, dude.

02:32:01.620 Yeah, I feel really lucky, you know.

02:32:03.020 I think we did a good job today

02:32:04.320 of like kind of learning

02:32:05.680 about some stuff

02:32:06.420 and also some of it

02:32:07.460 is just like getting

02:32:08.180 into the psyche

02:32:08.780 of seeing what it's like

02:32:10.000 to go through the minds

02:32:11.660 of someone

02:32:12.960 who's gone through your life

02:32:14.460 and then, yeah,

02:32:16.020 how do you best try

02:32:16.760 to manage it

02:32:17.460 and then what can we even expect

02:32:19.500 out of people, you know,

02:32:21.600 who aren't able to manage

02:32:22.860 their emotions

02:32:24.780 and mental,

02:32:27.020 the fatigue wears on them,

02:32:28.240 you know,

02:32:28.380 and they're not able to manage it

02:32:29.560 but they're still required

02:32:30.780 to be at work.

02:32:31.440 You know, it's like,

02:32:32.480 it's a huge asking.

02:32:33.960 It's a huge fucking undertaking.

02:32:35.840 It is.

02:32:36.360 But this is good stuff

02:32:37.180 and I hope that it helps

02:32:38.040 officers and civilians alike.

02:32:40.300 Yeah.

02:32:40.580 Well, it's just great

02:32:41.320 to have this conversation, man,

02:32:42.300 and we learn more as we go.

02:32:44.380 Christopher Curtis,

02:32:45.020 thank you so much, dude.

02:32:46.520 You're welcome.

02:32:47.320 Yeah, I appreciate it.

02:32:48.380 I love that hat, dude.

02:32:50.020 Miserote.

02:32:51.220 Mi gente, papa.

02:32:52.780 Ahí.

02:32:53.720 En la lucha.

02:32:54.740 En la lucha.

02:32:55.460 Thank you.

02:33:10.580 Peace of mind.

02:33:11.700 I found I can feel it

02:33:13.660 In my bones

02:33:15.760 But it's gonna take

02:33:18.320 I can do it at the distance of my bones

02:33:21.100 Because it's gonna get in grace.

02:33:22.080 I'll see you again.

02:33:23.420 In the mud

This Past Weekend with Theo Von - May 23, 2025

#584 - Retired Las Vegas Police Sgt.

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